# Arnold as Cali Politician



## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

Thoughts?? He's got $$ - and knows how to make splash - making the Tonight show announcement. But - can he make it happen? Running a state in nowhere near what a movie set is. Cali is a massive state on every level. One of the biggest economic powers in world (lots of $$ there) - let alone the US. He's got no experience (unless he was class president in HS). He's been good with his $$ with great investments, but this could be more than he can even shoot up/destroy. Could this be the Terminator 4 where he bites it??  I think so. And I sure hope that he speaks some spanish.... 

H!


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

You know he just might. He's got a Teutonic approach to life and sets goals for himself.
He's rich enough to be doing it as a statesman not a career.
Fresh insights can sometimes shake up the status quo and the bureaucracy in a good way.

I don't envy the task tho', California is a microcosm of US problems with far too much disparity in income PLUS you've got a radical approach to things like environment.
Quite an explosive mixture of gradients and as you say a giant economy ( 8th I think - versus Ontarios 12th  )

Hey Ronny used it to jump to the Prez


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

+1


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## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

I always thought you had to be born in America to run for any kind of office. Guess not


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## Chealion (Jan 16, 2001)

wonderings - Only president.

Arnold said he wasn't going to get fundraising but would pay for it all. And he has done quite a few things that have led him to this decision, since I believe 1987 he was part of the board of a children's benefit society (I can't remember what it was exactly). But he does know what he is doing.


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## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

BigDL, at this point, they will take anything as they need something to at least stir something up - and stir they did. I just don't feel like he'll be able to handle the serious press after the dust settles and the flashes stop. I just saw that little bit of press conference after he went to register (60 votes and $3500 - think his visa was declined?), and I personally don't think that he did that well. He's got no experience. 

He apparently can't be bought as he's (self proclaimed) one of the richest people in entertainment. No Special Interest $$ here! - ok.

He's bent on bringing back biz to Cali. How? He'll get into that 'stuff' later. He desperately needs some writers. He's not going to be able to survive a real press conference. 

I wonder if this is going to divide Hollywood. They should have a poll of actors to see how many agree with what's happening. Have we seen this b4?? Sorta. But we all know who was calling the shots when Ronnie was in. You think that M Shriver wants to shoulder that??

Wonder, as long as you have that US citizen ship, you can make it happen. Which is what this whole campaign is based on - making it (happen). Remember Rough Rider QB JC Watts?? He keeps coming to mind...


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## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

Chealion, damn right he knows what he's doing! Making the announcement on the Tonight Show. Didn't get much crazier than that. Most press people were left agape with the announcement - hell as were most of US politicians.

What will the fund raiser look like? The Oscars??

So what's next??

H!


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

At least he can't run for Prez.....

C'mon people, why on earth do you think Arnie would make a good leader for California? How the heck does he relate to anyone except the Rodeo Drive crowd? Will it be Hummer's for all? California is a swing State. It's a mixed population with huge geographic discontinuities. Does he understand the difference between San Ysidro and San Francisco? He'll have great sound bites and Gray Davies hasn't a hope in heck but there's nothing obvious in thinking an iffy actor/ex-muscle man can finesse 50 million people into a better life. Maybe the Dems will achieve something the Terminators have failed to do?

BTW, if he does get elected, Toronto and Vancouver will probably kiss goodbye to Hollywood North. Job creation, y'know....


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I would have to agree with jwoodget, although Macdoc makes an interesting observation. I think the mood is shifting in the US away from the typical politician, regardless of party. I sense that the feeling is that both parties have "messed up", and the typical politician becomes stereotyped. Still, it should prove to be an interesting election.


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## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

If both parties have messed then, would Arnie win as an indie?? His own platform?? He needs the Rep backing anyhow. We'll see. But true statement about Hollywood North. The work is already gone actually. I have many friends in that scene, and they tell tales of rental outlets stocked with goods for weeks straight. Although there have been talks of work going to Australia anyhow of late... How will an Austrian sound speaking Spanish? There's the sound bite!  

H!


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

a


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

+1


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

HEY! Let's not forget *Gary Coleman*!


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

> HEY! Let's not forget Gary Coleman!


...Or Larry Flint









I agree with Master Blaster - except for the point that he can act. he can some what.

But you are right. Arnold set goals for himself and acheived them. Despite what the critics said. Why would Govenor be any different for an acheivable goal? To him it would be another stepping stone.


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## Etaoin Shrdlu (May 19, 2003)

Arnie made the announcement on the Tonight Show because the Republicans arranged it as a set piece. The audience potential is huge and it would be easily done, since Leno is Republican.

It would be a tremendous coup for the Republicans to get a foot in the door in California.

used to be jwoodget's post: How the heck does he relate to anyone except the Rodeo Drive crowd? misses the point. He doesn't, and that's the point. He would be a threat to Hollywood Democrats, indeed. Robert Redford and Hanoi Jane will be in the front lines.

The Republican petition to unseat Gray Davis has the smell of decomposing bodies wafting from the signatures, and there's a definite breeze ruffling the pages as the dead drift past it, returning to their graves from which they arose, it being prior to the trump. And thousands of the names belong to people living in the state of Nevada, legally and illigally. In the court case that followed, the Republican-appointed judge gave the dead as much right as the living to vote. Having learned from Florida that preventing people from voting gets bad press, Republicans extended the franchise to six feet under. They discovered that the result is the same.

Couple the Florida farce with the Texas Republicans' proclaimed intention to gerrymander and their attempts to use federal police to arrest and imprison the state legislature's Democrats (the shade of Charles I could be seen applauding -- his name is on the petition, no doubt), and Arnie's run is explained.

U.S. news reports and commentator's opinions available on the web say that Arnie may have problems with the inevitable sins-of-the-father attacks. Gustav Shwarzenegger was a low to middle manager in the Nazi party and a stormtrooper military policeman. But others point out that raising the spector of George H's father, Prescott -- George W.'s grandfather -- came up short.

The paragraph below the URL is from a chat site.

http://www.socallawblog.com/archives/000474.html

"Arnold may have blunted the "Gustav was a nazi" threat, but he's yet to face the political buzzsaw that the current governor of California will unleash on him. The drug abuse, ugly sexism, allegations of hustling gays, lumped in with his daddy's Austrian stormtrooper antics, will not make for a very pretty picture.

"Don't be surprised if The Terminator decides that he has other obligations that preclude his running."

Obviously, that poster is wrong.

Another poster says:

"Rabbi Marvin Hier, dean and founder of the Wiesenthal Center, said Schwarzenegger has been a generous donor to the Jewish human rights organization -- "every time he does a movie, he writes a check" -- and has been granted its National Leadership Award for his humanitarian work.

"It's not a proud moment for anyone when you learn your father was a member of the Nazi Party," Hier said in an interview. "But Arnold is not his father, and Arnold has to be judged for who he is. I have always found him to be interested in the issues of the museum. He has been very friendly and supportive."

We live in interesting times.


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## jo42 (Jul 21, 2003)

> _was ridiculed in his early career because he could not act. Now he can._

You're joking. You must be joking. I must have really missed the sarcasm in your post...

Then again, T3 _was_ slightly better than Hercules in New York. Not much, just a bit. I'll give him that much.


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## lotus (Jun 29, 2002)

Only in California! What a cheap underhanded way to get rid of Gov.Davis. Smells of Carl Rowe! If the vote to recall Davis goes thru he will not be on the ballot and who ever gets the most votes wins. May as well sell tickets and have a lottery. 

It is ridiculous that someone can be elected with less than a majority of the votes. Arnold Baby, with his name recognition, will probably get voted in. At least he is not eligible to run for the office of president, but he only has to be a citizen for 7 years to run for representative or 9 years to run for the senate. He could be around for a long time unless he really fouls up.

With Bush's approval slipping to 53%, the Republicans are desperate to get a stronger foothold in California and those 54 electoral votes.


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## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

Hmmm.... Arnie is both the covers of Newsweek & Time magazine. Oh boy. There's also a honest letter here from Jesse ' The Body' about dropping the scripts, and getting ready for the realest battle ever.


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## jrtech (Sep 24, 2002)

Lest we forget Jessie made it. And if I remember correctly he was seen at ringside more than once with a feather boa..................yup there is a picture, and there is also one of Jess and Arnie............


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## Etaoin Shrdlu (May 19, 2003)

And lest we forget, Ventura's letter, from writing it to sending it to having the media pick it up, was as heavily scripted by the campaign handlers as any movie can be.

[ August 11, 2003, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Etaoin Shrdlu ]


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

*Don't stop at California!*
Sadly, the gross electoral deficiencies that *lotus* points out will combine with voter qualification issues such as we saw in the Florida count in 2000.
Add to that the fact that under the Patriot Act of 2001, Americans no longer have the constitutional right to security of person or property from unreasonable search and seizure, confiscation and imprisonment without warrant or charge.

My 12th generation and truly patriotic American relatives were refused entry into the US by Homeland Security personnel because they could not produce a birth certificate for their sleeping 6 year old and the frightened and speechless child would not answer the H.S. agent's questions. The questions are used by border guards to ensure that a child speaks english, names his siblings and parents and is not illegally being smuggled into the US.
After over-nighting in a Sarnia motel, a one hour interrogation and no apology they were finally allowed entry.
The outraged mom asked me: "Why do they hire morons to insult our intelligence .... or was it because we have black hair?" 
Of course, like many Americans she cannot without risk of being seen as unpatriotic ask such questions publicly in her own country.

If I digress from the topic, it is to say that there seem to be morons at the top and bottom rungs of American society and especially in the military and law enforcement who's new powers are unprecedented. Other Americans may have a rough ride while Bush is in power.

Obviously, Schwartzenegger is easily bored (as was Bush as governor of Texas) and will be as governor of California. 

I'm sure that while the US Republicans are on such a well funded and moronic power roll, an "Arnold Act" ammending the Constitution via the Supreme Court can easily accommodate Herr Schwartzenegger. He was so very close to the daft Ronald Reagan back in those days and it was so touching to witness their embrace ......


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## Etaoin Shrdlu (May 19, 2003)

Ronnie stole a quotation when he said that anyone who isn't a socialist (Democrat) when under 30 has no heart, and anyone who is a socialist over 30 has no brain.

Well, by that definition, he's a socialist again.


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

Gee, I wonder if this will help, or hurt Schwarzenegger's chances?


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

SoCal/LA may well bring about a new form of governance that might be called *Politainment*.
Doug Guardhouse has given us a peek at the possibilities above. 
*You can't have enough teeth to beat Arnie!*








The current disconnect of news vs. spin in the US will provide Americans with ample distraction from the important stuff better handled by party "consultants".
A Schwarzenegger win will serve the Repulican interests best from a view of strategic consistency.
Since Richard Nixon, With the exception of George Bush Sr., Republican officials have chosen to put candidates forward to the public that are spokespersons who serve political masters rather than leaders whose ideas might interfere with the running of the "business as usual" US policy.


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

_Politainment!_ *EUREKA!* That's so apt it's unnerving. As another modern synthetic, it will be as pervasive as Irritainment, Edutainment, Infotainment, and eventually will be joined by Spiritainment, Miseritainment, Fiducitainment, Guerritainment...


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

+1


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## jo42 (Jul 21, 2003)

My name is Hans.

My name is Franz.

We're here to _Pump_ *You*!


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

a


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## jo42 (Jul 21, 2003)

I bid 1000 quatloos!


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

_(Green Brain on the Left)_: I bid 4500 Quatloos the small *Coleman* entity will not survive the battle.


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## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

POLITAINMENT! I like that ....

Anyhow, since comedy central moved their offices to Cali, things have been fun to watch on TV. Really, I'm glued trying to catch the next Arnie quote. But in the mean time, check out the Village Voice on Arnie. 

H!


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

Fans can start fund raising parties now.
Dress: No Shirts.










[ August 25, 2003, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: macello ]


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Unless something radical takes place in the next fifty days or so, Arnold Schwartzenegger will end up being the Governor of California.

This is the state that was formerly the FIFTH largest economy on the planet...well it WAS, before Gray Davis and his democrats got ahold of it. 

Now it is in SEVENTH place and shrinking fast.

It should be very interesting to see just how Arnie manages the whole mess. Will he be the outstanding Governor that Ronald Reagan was? Will he be re-elected as many times as Regan was?

Can he manage to turn the whole thing around and restore it to it's former glory....or will the slide that started under the democrats continue unabated?

And...best of all...what NEW slogans and rhetoric will the yet-again-dissappointed left have to fling out there in a last ditch attempt to put a negative spin on this latest failure of their beloved but embattled ideologly?  
















(Hey...don't despair. Those few of you who have not yet embraced reality and are still pushing the old ways....Arnie can't run for President. At least not without an Act of Congress.) 









I'm just waiting for Fidel to croak, Kim Jong Il to toss in the towel and China to hold general elections. It's all coming up quite shortly...and it will spell final doom to the old tired ways and the last few followers.

Oh yeah...and the Federal NDP to lose Official Party Status in the next Canadian election. Just as they have already done in some of the bigger Provinces.

Then we can move forward. Without all of the nonsense blocking our way. Cool!!


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## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

I'll tell you this: Arnie IS causing quite the scare in Cali right now, as the ppl all aseem to be rallying around this actor. What the Demsa are scared pof too, is the possibility that Arnie will rally many of the apathetic non voters and get them to hit the polls for the Reps. But, I'm slowly getting the feeling that the dust will start to settle. I hear that they're down to 135 contestants... Bustamente is apparently building some steam. 

H!


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

As I have suggested before, Republicans elect puppets and consultants from the private sector do the governing. La-La-Land







will be no different.

No American politician or bad actor can over-ride the energy sector any more than a junkie can a heroin dealer.

Much rides on Arnie's ability to swallow







the hard right dogma and his own ego.  The brain is plenty small enough, the neck more than thick enough as long as the  don't get in the way.








Here's some leftist filth  to consider:
_"Although blackouts are no longer making front-page headlines in California, the energy crisis is far from over. It’s moved from the newspapers do our wallets, where its likely to remain for a long time. California consumers have been left fighting off efforts by both the utilities and big businesses to lay the entire bill for deregulation’s failure at their feet"_
De-regulation in La-La-Land


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Interestingly, Arnie seems to have no real desire to "swallow hard right dogma" as macello so eloquently put it.

And it would also seem that he has no need to buddy up to any special interest groups in order to get money for his campaign.

He has plenty of his own, and has stated this publicly on several occaisions.  

(Compare this to Gray Davis. He was so beholding to the Big Unions that he passed several of their whacko "wish-list" labour laws....and promptly started a mass exodus of employers out of that previously prosperous state)

And....I'm not sure if macello has noticed, but many of the more staunchly conservative "right wingers' are slightly horrified at Arnie's stated stance on certain subjects. He's fiscally conservative and socially liberal...just like most of my "*******" buddies. 

And none of us have any problem at all with Arnie. We all think he'd make a GREAT Governor!   

( _perhaps I should have said WILL make a great Governor_ )


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

California would be better off with: (PG13)

http://www.sexymonkey.co.uk/film/0603/heidi.htm

At least as politics is practised in the US, she knows the craft!


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## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

Is this not the same Arnie who shouted that he could not be bought? I guess since he has a previous relationship with the Co., that makes it OK?? Is he going to end his press conferences now by taking a gulp of Gatorade and say that he's been using these w/ workouts forever?? Yeah right. That sounds like product placement to me. But he gets nothing- right, right. His campaign bu sis going to look like the F1 cars - with all the logos and stickers.


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

Arnie as Commercial Plug Pimp

"On half a dozen occasions, Schwarzenegger has worked into his public statements the brand names of products with which he has long business, charitable and personal associations."

Governor brought to you by $$$$ 

Mentally Ill ..... ? or WHAT ...


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

It is certainly not surprising to many that people with adolescent minds and vested interests would support Schwarzenegger. Thirteen is the average age of his fan base.









The US seems near political and moral bankruptcy and like tired children many in the US have more faith in the military and the movie stars than they have political will or their own professed "christian" principles.

Schwarzenegger will convince many gullible Americans the same way many German people were convinced in the 'thirties ..... with images and promises of overwhelming power.









Los Angeles is the fourth most polluted city in the USA.
Schwarzenegger drives and endorses the Hummer SUT as a domestic use passenger vehicle.
The Schwartz's environmental savvy







 8 MPG (highway cruise) is amazing given that *California has the five most polluted cities in the USA!*
LALAPOLLUTSALL!


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

+1


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Macello the Nazi cracks are getting very wearisome and considering the Arnold is the recipient of the Simon Weisenthal National Leadership Award it is reallllllllly inappropriate. It's NOT funny.

"Arnold Schwarzenegger received the 1997 National Leadership Award of the Simon Wiesenthal Center for his generous involvement in numerous charities and leadership programs. The award was bestowed on him at a Gala Dinner in New York on April 8, 1997.
Through his activities Arnold Schwarzenegger contributes to the creation of better cities, to better facilities for the disadvantaged youth, and above all to better understanding and tolerance. The Simon Wiesenthal Center, established in 1977, has evolved into the largest institution of its kind and it is renowned for combating hatred, bigotry and anti-Semitism around the world."

Just what does it take to get it across to you


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I do beleive Macnutt just outed himself as a closet centrist..........as he has included himself as ehMacs official ******* I think we can safely count him *fiscally conservative and socially liberal.* as well.

"And....I'm not sure if macello has noticed, but many of the more staunchly conservative "right wingers' are slightly horrified at Arnie's stated stance on certain subjects. He's fiscally conservative and socially liberal...just like most of my "*******" buddies." 

written proof - took a little time to get there but .........


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

a


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

*"You are a Republican, you just didn't know it."*









Everything happens so fast and loose in Californica it's hard to decide which recall T-shirt to buy!








LA T's 

As y'all might guess which one I got ...









More pertinant info here:
SchwarzenHummer


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Oh I don't claim he's mister wonderful but the Nazi thing deserves a correction - I mean the Weisenthal award









I also like his political background through his wife.

Last time I checked psyching out is fair game in most competitve environments.
I think he's got drive, doesn't need the money but most important MIGHT be able to get California off the navel gazing immobility and start doing SOMETHING instead of wrangling.

I like the East coast hooks of his wife for "future considerations:.
Anyway time will tell. 

I'm riding Macello because on one thing he is very very wrong and that reflects badly on his credibility for anything else.

Public figuresa re fair game to have a look at but let's be reasonablly accurate and that's easy in this case.


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

MacDoc ...... please note.

I posted on August 24, 2003 05:03 PM the following:                     

"I have edited my offensive post of August 21, 2003 07:48 PM with respect to the ehMac community."


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Thank you but what was the brown shirt crack later????

[ August 25, 2003, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: macdoc ]


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

The offending post of August 17, 2003 01:25 AM has been edited with respect to the enMac community:
"Fans can start fund raising parties now.
Dress: No Shirts." 
(August 25, 2003, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: macello)


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Interesting stuff.  

And...just to clarify things a bit...yes, your resident "******* right-wing critic" is...without any shadow of a doubt...fiscally conservative and socially liberal in his thoughts and opinions.  

Just as are the vast majority of my "right wing *******" buddies.  

And, get this...I know DROVES of them. In Canada, the USA, all over South America and the Caribbean, Central America..a few small parts of Eastern Europe, various places in southeast Asia, and...surprise!...that last bastion of pure socialist thought in our hemisphere...CUBA!!   

As many of you may already know, I have worked and lived in many different countries. I have kept in touch with LOTS of the friends that I made in most of those places. We talk to each other on a daily basis via e-mail.

And they keep me up to date with what's going on in their particular neighborhood. 

I lived and worked in Southern California in 1978 and 1980. I moved there and spent most of 1983 in Costa Mesa (buying and selling and working on American musclecars while living with a Canadian buddy who was married to an American lady.)

I was back in California (Los Angeles) for part of 1999 and spent considerable time there in 2001. (I was part of an expatriat Canadian group who used to gather on saturday nights at Angelo's. We used to refer to L.A. as ("Hell..Eh?). 

And...I just gotta say...

Pretty much ALL of the friends that I still stay in contact with, in California's biggest city, say that Arnold Schwartzenegger will be the next Governor.

Perhaps they are wrong. Perhaps the Democrats will band together and sway the electorate at the very last moment....


But one thing is for sure.

If Arnold DOESN'T get elected, then the next Democrat who IS elected (Cruz Bustamante?) will end up following a set of fiscal policies that could have been lifted, wholesale, from pretty much ANY right-wing Republican wish-list.  

And...you know what? I don't care one little bit what anyone CALLS themselves, politically.....just so long as they are fiscally responsible and don't borrow us into the poorhouse.

Borrowing money to pay for the unsustainable programs they promised in the run-up to the election...or, worse yet, BORROWING money to pay for the INTEREST on the money that they'd ALREADY BORROWED is a total dead-end!!

And any political group that will address this...and actually DEAL with it...is okay in my book!

Because, when all is said and done, THEY are truly fiscally Conservative...after all.

And THAT WORKS! (I have no problem with this BTW. No matter WHAT political group advocates this course of action).

And it dosen't matter WHAT you call it!

Right...Left...or "Centering".

We...as a collective WHOLE...can't spend more than we take in. It's as simple as that.   

Deal with it.


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

For the fiscally concerned in the US, here's something to chew on:
undocumentable adjustments 

The Department of Defense Office of the Inspector General has reported that DOD has not and will not account for $1.1 trillion of "undocumentable adjustments." 

The "undocumentable adjustments" made by these government agencies are much like the balance adjustments many of us make when reconciling our checkbooks. Except that the amounts are staggering: California's share of the "undocumented adjustments" is $128 billion -- more than three times its current $35 billion budget deficit. The average American's share of the "undocumented adjustments" is almost $4,000 per person.


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## Etaoin Shrdlu (May 19, 2003)

It's in Nixon's CREEP slush fund, of course. The Republicans, having discovered the benefits of dead voters, plan to run a dead ex-prez in 2008.


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

My doubts concerning Arnie's qualifications for political office aside, my thinking could change if the Big Gun could be aimed directly at the torpor that has infected the American political will and be fired at California's share of the national $1.1 trillion "undocumented adjustments" at $128 billion.

My being against all violence tells me that a BigGun might not even be needed.

With Arnie's public prominance as an icon, a verbal challenge to those who refuse to account for this theft of taxpayer's funds would probably wake up voters to a bi-partisan scam of unprecedented scale upon the American people.

The silence is deafening.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

just so we all understand the word "racist"

*racist*
adj 1: based on racial intolerance; "racist remarks" 2: discriminatory especially on the basis of race or religion [syn: antiblack, anti-Semitic, anti-Semite(a)] *n : a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others [syn: racialist]*

*big·ot *
n. One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

removed


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## jfpoole (Sep 26, 2002)

One could say, then, that macnutt supports free people and free markets?


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

an·ar·chy 
noun
1.	Absence of any form of political authority.
2.	Political disorder and confusion.
3.	Absence of any cohesive principle, such as a common standard or purpose.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

"We...as a collective WHOLE...can't spend more than we take in. It's as simple as that."

Over the long term yes but it's generally now accepted that the governemtn role is to act both as a governor in bubble times and a stimulus in lean times to damp market forces.
Hence the job Greenspan has done.
If the fundamentals are there it's oftne prudent for a government to spend even into deficit for a brief period to kick start an economic doldrum. For every $ of government spending there is approx $6 of economic acitvity generated.
In the past there has been abuse of this and poor timing.

As before Macnutt simple one liner solutions don't work in a complex world. Checks and balances between market forces and government spending and bank interest rates and even currency speculators all come into play.
Over time governments should attempt a balanced budget with a surplus "emergency fund".
Martin is famous for "squirelling away" extra and of course Alberta has the windfall "heritage fund" to fall back on...lucky them.

What's seriously been lacking just about everywhere is the will to spend on large infra structure projects - those were the hallmark of early Ontario growth and of course the New Deal, Quebec Hydro amongst others.
Only governments usually have the resources and foresight to fund these large projects.
Not much leadership lately i this arena.


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

Arnie pirouettes ...... and shows like every Republican, that he needs to shut up and be controlled by his political masters.

Tell me there isn't something so wasn't supposed to happen here.  

From today's LATimes :
"When Schwarzenegger launched his campaign three weeks ago, he called himself an outsider who would "reform the system" in Sacramento. Since then, he has returned to that theme at nearly every campaign appearance, saying he could not be bought by special interests." 
"I am not taking money from anyone," he said last week in Los Angeles. 
"But Schwarzenegger has been raising money aggressively from donors with a stake in state business, including leaders of the agriculture, technology, wine and real-estate industries, records and interviews show." 

Arnie invites big donors







to his home after elections:
"Silicon Valley venture capitalist Tim Draper has invited major donors who "max out at $21,200" -- the legal limit for candidate donations -- would be invited to a "special dinner at Arnold's home" after the election."

But he won't be corrupted by Native Americans: 
"It is wrong, for instance, to take money from the Native Americans when you negotiate with the Native Americans. I think any of those kind of real powerful special interests, if you take money from them, you owe them something." he said on KTKZ-AM radio in Sacramento.

I'm sorry MacDoc but that's serious competition for Bush in the shallow end of the brain pool to me.


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

Arnie's gotta learn to dance







with the Big Boys like Bush did:
Dance wi'duh wun wut brung yuh!


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

i think this says it all

http://www.shockwave.com/af/content/ahhnold_for_governor


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

How did we miss this? Hatching Arnie 

Tuesday, July 15, 2003

Sen. Hatch: Amend the Constitution for President Schwarzenegger.

Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, is pushing a constitutional amendment that would allow his friend Arnold Schwarzenegger to run for the White House. Under the Hatch Amendment, foreign-born people who have been naturalized U.S. citizens for at least 20 years would be eligible to run for president.

A backup plan in case he loses the governator gig?


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

could this be arnie's new "wife?"

http://www.newsmax.com/coulter/


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

What !!! are you under the same misapprehension as Macello? Do you KNOW who Arnold's wife is??
If you do then how could you associate him with the likes of Ann Coulter. I simply do not understand.







Perhaps you didn't read the thread portion regarding Maria Shriver
Movies are NOT reality.
Arnie S and Maria Shriver are what American needs right now.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

duh macdoc
i no read newspaper too good

Arnold's Hummer is reality - not tv
I guess the roads of L.A. must be pretty rough and tumble for him to need his gas (diesel) Hummer
OR
Does he really want to be a military type? Family history there. His Dad was in the military too. Could Arnold be pre-disposed to needing military type hardware to reinforce his own idea of "self?"

i notice that the Kennedy compound hasn't been releasing its usual plethora of scandals

could it be that event the Kennedys are embarassed of Arnold? (soon to be president)

you gotta stoop pretty low to be an embarassment to the Kennedys !!

I wonder if Maria knows the coloquial meaning of "hummer?"


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

I can just see Arnold as the male lead in the musical "West Side Story"

Something about a girl named Maria?

Now, I would pay to see Arnold and Maria in the lead roles in the musical.

Where the hell is Ed Mirvish when I need him?


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

MacDoc, I don't believe that I have misapprehended Maria Shriver. I don't know where you got that idea.

On the lighter side, she is definitely not my type. I've done much work for the stiff faux patrician folk ... too much joyless smiling.

Macspectrum's having fun with some darkly humorous matchmaking of celebs ..... extreme barbie?

We've been LOLing over Ali G.

Anyway I need to know more about Arnie's 180 on fundraising and his buddy Hatch's plans for him


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I just have to note here that Cruz Bustamante has just been edorsed by the AFL-CIO as their "chosen candidate" should the recall be sucessful.

The Kings of Big Labour...the very same ones who had Gray Davis on a short leash, and pretty much forced him into enacting goofy labour policies that helped to bring on the current crisis by chasing a huge number of companies out of California....are now backing a guy who will be, if elected, the very FIRST hispanic to hold that high office.

In a state with a HUGE hispanic population.

Cruz needs some very powerful backers to pull this off. Looks like he just found them.  

And suddenly no one...not even me...is saying that he couldn't end up in the Governor's mansion on october 8th. The Big Unions can pull all sorts of strings and call in all sorts of favors when their backs are up against the wall.

And that's exactly where it stands right now. The American Left (this includes Big Labour) are teetering on the edge of a big black hole right now. Nothing is going their way. Hasn't for some time now. They have no real heroes...and can't even point to any in the recent past. They are out of the power loop in both sides of the two-part US Government, for the first time in living memory.

And they are about to lose the biggest, richest, most powerful state in the Union.

And, if some upstart movie star Republican can, somehow, manage to pull California out of the tailspin that it's been in...and solve a bunch of the problems...

Well, then people might begin to _talk_ ! 









And...after quite a bit of that aforementioned talk...the mainstream voter in the US _might_ just come to the frightening conclusion (when confronted by this huge body of evidence) that the Democrats are just NOT the sort of people that you want to be running anything bigger than a carwash.

The Dems...the American Left...is in the fight of it's political life in California right now. Expect to see them pull out all of the stops and switch their phaser settings to "Kill".

Fasten your seat belts. It's going to be a bumpy ride.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Macnutt - I agree that big labour has made itself relatively irrelevant in the US altho it still has voting power. Abuse of power, greed and corruption can easily take hold in any large group, union, church or government...seems a common human trait.
The US has no third party ala NDP to buffer the far left and even here Layton has taken pains to get out from under Labour's thumb.

But much of the US is entirely disgusted with the right as well, greed, corruption, resistance to science research, religious clap trap etc. BOTH edges, as with most of the world, are being punished at the polls.

The politician that can strike the correct balance between fiscal responsibility and guarding the public weal against abuse by "the private sector" is the politician most likely to head a government just about anywhere these days, regardless of their nominal affiliation.
US politics is far more Byzantine with special interest lobbies of all sorts combinging with a wider spectrum of voter profiles than in Canada to make it quite a feat at all to get elected.
What did the guy spend in NY for governor - 1 BILLION dollars I believe







 

Because Arnie and his wife pull from both sides of the political center AND he is a popular figure he may well win California and may provide a model for the rest of the country .

Oh Macnutt, BTW one of your heroes actually starred in a commmercial praising the House Unamerican Activities program....a good buddy of "Old Joe's"
.......and damn if he wasn't an actor himself, and the governor of California
American freedom...yeah right


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Yep...old "two-gun Ronnie" was truly concerned by the spread of communism in the USA. Lots of people were, and with good reason. Back then there was an active communist party in the states and socialism was still considered a vaible alternative to the status quo by a fairly large part of the American population.

Thank goodness that's all in the past.    

And, while you choose to see the political world as "centering"...especially in the US...I would just like to point out, once again, that it is "centering" towards the political right.  

Despite what you have described as dissatisfaction with the Republicans, nobody really thinks that the Democrats are poised to come roaring back to power any time soon. Not in the Administration, not in the Congress...and probably not in the States themselves.

Quite the opposite. The Democrats who still remain are beginning to sound like true-blue Republicans, what with their newfound emphasis on balanced budgets and fiscal responsibility.  

I think this is too cool! (and about time!)

So...we are still "centering" rapidly to the right, eh?

I couldn't be happier!


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

Perhaps the States and Californacation in particular are swinging to the right, Fortunately Canada is not. Macnutt perhaps your envy/dread of such an occurrence might get you to thinking about immigration. On behalf off many Canadian centrist let me say we will do our best to miss you.
















On a serious note I remember a time when California was very conservative and had a huge political swing. It swung to the left very quickly. That was about the mid sixties.









You never know the pendulum could have gone as far right as it can. Now it is going to move, off a very high arc, very quickly past centre to the left.









Arnie's could win based on as you say little difference between the Democrates and the Republicans. Brand name recognitions could do it.

But remember what happened to the federal tories when they looked to much like the federal liberals.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Actually Big DL...the political pendulum has already swung quite a bit to the right here in Canada. I recall about a decade ago how much ridicule and derision was heaped upon anyone who even speculated that the Reform/Alliance could ever be a viable political force in this country. Now they are the official Opposition!  

The Federal Liberals have adopted or retained most of the policies of the Canadian Right during the last decade. Free Trade, the GST, balanced budgets (well...they didnt do that one very well, but that's for another thread) One thing's for sure, they seem to be moving toward the right...not the left, these days.

And the last Federal election results that I saw (published in a national newspaper) claimed that, had the Alliance and PC's been united, they would have taken a signifigant amount of seats in Ontario. The races were quite close, if you recall.

Most of the rest of Canada...certainly all of the parts that are actually generating the wealth that we all currently enjoy...have been voting en masse _against_ the Federal Liberals since day one.

You knew all that...didn't you?

The NDP is in massive decline, both Federally and Provincially, and many experts think that they will not even be left with enough seats after the next federal election to qualify for "Official party Status". (that has already happened in BC, by the way...which WAS a former NDP stronghold)

That hardly seems like a recipie for an imminent "swing back to the left"....does it?









The whole world is slowly, in fits and starts, moving away from the unsustainable nonsense that came out of the sixties. Reality is now the operable word amongst most governments everywhere.

And...just so you know...I have lived and worked for most of my life in countries other than Canada. That includes several long periods of time in the USA. I have a permanent work visa for the States, and could have lived there indefinitely had I chosen to. Citizenship was offered on several occaisions (They just love to have Canadian oilfield technicians working down there. We are the best in the world at what we do.)

But I chose Canada. 

And...unlike yourself...I would never suggest to any other Canadian that they "leave the country" if they don't agree with the particular direction that it is going.

And, when Canada makes it's next big swing to the right (either in name or in spirit)...I would not counsel you to leave for some place that is more socialist.

After all...those sort of places are getting pretty hard to find these days, eh?


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

Macnutt I would not suggest to anyone to immigrate. I apologies if my comments were interpreted as that is my wish. I phrased my comments as a set-up to “try to miss you” as a little bit of teasing if you will. If I upset you please forgive me.

My thoughts were based on my understanding of comments that imply envy of another society. 

Perhaps something that most people on the left (that I know) and you can agree is that we want a balanced budget (and where we may part company) or surpluses.

Tommy Douglas was an excellent fiscal manager. I think where we part company is what to do with the finances/surplus. Lefties love surpluses. 

It was a liberal, PET, that was the tax and spend guy. True the liberals are on the right, but way to the left of the CCRAP or what ever. The tories are... where?

Perhaps to get back more to the point of this thread can anyone tell me what is the point of government for the “right” aside from the power realised as a result of being in charge. What will Arnie and his backers do for the Cali people. I don’t mean specifically I mean generically. Can anyone enlighten me.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Actually BigDL, the Federal liberals in Canada...at least since Pierre-what's-his-name...have been considered slightly left of center politically. (early in their current incarnation, they allied themselves with the Federal NDP in a coalition Government. I cannot imagine any sort of a situation that would see them as allies with either the PC's or the Alliance)

The fact that the Federal Liberals have adopted so very many of their old enemies ideals (while abandoning or watering down so many of their own) speaks volumes about where the country...and the whole world...is actually headed these days. 









So...what will Arnie do if he gets elected?

Short answer? Don't know.

But I DO know what he WON'T do. He will NOT be a pawn of Big Labour, and will almost certainly reverse some of the pro labour union legislation that has caused a whole bunch of companies to flee the state.

You know...the stuff that _sounds_ really great on paper, but ends up costing employers big bags of money. So much money, that they start looking for somewhere else to relocate their business to.

He will almost certainly cut back on long-term welfare payouts, just as so very many other politicians have been doing this past decade. In BC, Campbell has told all the people on the dole that they can collect for only two years out of every five. In between, they have to find their own way and pay for their own food. (it seems to be working quite well from Australia to N. America to parts of Europe, BTW.)

He will also not be treating the hot-button issue of public vs private power generation the same way that Gray Davis and his union-controlled Democrats did.

No way in hell.

I suspect that he will be telling utilities to set a realistic price for the sale of power to customers. A price that includes enough room for a private company to invest in some expensive gear and still make a reasonable return on their investment while selling electricity to the average consumer.

If he's really market-savvy, he'll get a whiole bunch of companies to compete for the right to sell to each individual customer and let good old market forces push the price down and the service quality up. The State would own the wires and charge each company for using them to transmit power to the customers. Any company that lets the power get shut off, or charges more than their competitor, would lose enough of the market share that they would be out of business before very long.

Remember when there was only ONE big monopoly selling you phone service? Remember paying upwards of a dollar-per-minute for long distance? Remember when the phone system didn't work nearly as well as it does now? Remember when you had to shout to be heard, when any sort of gear you attached to your phone (even an answering machine) was illegal if it didn't come from the "Phone Company"?

I do. It was not so very long ago, after all.

And I can see Arnie re-making the whole issue of power delivery to the masses in this very same well-proven, market-driven, consumer dependant way.

This guy is, after all, very much a self made man. He knows what works and what doesn't. He has seen how badly things can get screwed up when a government loses sight of what's real and what's not.

And he knows how the free market can improve service while fighting to lower prices. Just so long as the Government doesn't meddle too much.

Oh...and he'll probably lower taxes as soon as possible.

And the disappointed Left will loudly claim that he is "mailing cheques to his rich buddies" or some such nonsense.









California, under a new Republican Governor such as Arnie, will be a very different place in five years. Totally different in ten or so.

And THAT'S what so many in that state are hoping for. Because they sure don't like what they have right now.

We can only hope he wins, and that they get their chance to recover what's been lost.


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## lotus (Jun 29, 2002)

Interesting thread. My only comment - becareful what you wish for!


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

"No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted"
That's right because fundamentally you always do it for your own benefit and if ....son of a gun....it happens to benefit someone else - well that's a bonus


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

I think a red tory has more in common with a NDP’r than an NDP’ r will ever have with a Liberal.

Just a recap as I understand it the right will use mysticism “invisible hand thingy” except where government has to save the market from itself.









Welfare for the poor will be cut, but not corporate welfare ...right!  

Big Labour in California, (or anywhere in the USA for that matter) hummm... given the facts, isn’t that an oxymoron.


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## lotus (Jun 29, 2002)

Definitely off topic, but Macdoc is the glass half full or half empty? I had not considered your interpretation of my quotation. Maybe I am in the minority, but if I can help someone I don't expect anything in return.

Your thoughts on Arnie surprised me as it doesn't seem to follow some of the other things you have posted. Just because he is married to one of the Kennedy Clan doesn't qualify him to be governor of the great state of California. They need help, but I do not think he is the one to solve their problems.


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

Schwarzenbeef:

Taco Bell, the fast-food chain's vote-with-your-appetite campaign, is awarding points to Arnold Schwarzenegger for beef taco orders and to Gov. Gray Davis for chicken soft tacos.

Beef tacos cost 74 cents. 
Chicken tacos cost $1.50
Click on "buy votes" for Results so far: 

Schwarzenegger has up to $1 million of stock of Pepsico Inc. (listed in his Statement of Economic Interest), the former owner of Taco Bell and still their exclusive soft drink supplier.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Lotus indeed you are in the minority - enlightened self interest is the term - you recognise the act of the gift giving is for your satisfaction. Another term is wisdom.
•••

Arnie I admire because he is very much self made and motivated man. He sets goals and achieves them and he has the flexibility to do things from Terminator to Junior with humour.
Why I brought up Maria is because the way Arnie has been portrayed here would not put him in a position to win the heart of someone like her and my perceptions of him as a caring and sensitve but highly motivated and aware person would.
I mean The National Leadership award from the Wiesenthal Center speaks volumes that Arnie cares and does something about it and it fits with the traditions of national level service that the Shriver's in particular embody.
I think he's getting a raw deal based on misperception and I trust Maria's Shriver's assessment of who she married over the yahoo's here and elsewhere.
Personally I think Arnie has the street smarts and the family backing to take a shot at the top job. Sometimes a fresh look is worthwhile. I and I think many others have a deep distrust of "professional" politicians.
Sometimes glamour helps and the best thing is ..he doesn't NEED the job. He thinks he can be useful. He has a history of goal setting and achieving.

but then Doonesbury may have it right - these are two of many lately


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## lotus (Jun 29, 2002)

David - wisdom? - I like that, at least I am smart enough not to get into an argument with someone of your intelligence, but I do question your support of Arnold.

Years ago I remember reading a book about Arnold and I was not impressed. Granted he is a self made man and came from a humble background and has done great things with his fortune, but tell me what is there in his background to qualify him to become governor of California.

Explain his friendship with Kurt Waldheim who was an ambassador to Canada from Austria back in the 50's. Waldheim was once head of the UN and president of Austria. He held numerous high profile positions, but I cannot forget that he was also wanted for war crimes after the second WW as he had participated in nazi atrocities. When he ran for president of Austria Arnold was a staunch supporter. At the time there were rumours that Arnold himself would some day run for president of Austria.

Why is Arnold refusing to participate in the debates unless he gets the questions ahead of time. Really, what kind of debate will that be. Reminds me of his early years as an actor, when it was decided that he would be given one line parts because longer dialogue was too complicated. Hosta la vista baby!

He probably won't get the latino vote, due to the fact that Pete Wilson is his campaign co-chairman. Remember Gov. Pete when he backed the proposal to deny public service to illegal immigrants. Latinos remember and their vote will go to Bustamante.

So his wife is Maria Shriver (love IS blind), does that mean I should vote for Eves because he lives with Isabel Bassett? I forgot, my citizenship papers haven't come through yet.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

No not JUST because but politicos with a strong partner and I think his Weisenthal Leadership award puts to rest any doubts about his nature in that regard.

As to debating I can write well but can't debate worth a damn adn each person has strengths and weaknesses in that regard. He's not smooth talking which probably does him well with some people including me but would be a liability in a debate.

I'm not painting him with rose coloured glasses but I personally think he has the drive to get California out of its funk and perhaps bring some humour to the office as well. It's a polictical family and whatever Arnie lacks in the background his wife more than makes up for and that's a strong combo in my mind.
Leadership is critical these days and I think he exudes it - I'm never going ot agree with many policies of the Republicans but as far a visible representative for California just have a gut feeling he can do a decent job in a very very tough situation.
I don't think he's an innocent either, politics in the US is a tough game and you neeed streangth of character to play - I think Arnie's shown that through out his life.
I mean just consider the hurdles he would have given his fathers background and his Waldheim association to get tothe point where the most anti-Nazi organization of all decides he deserves it's Leadership award.
Just that alone speaks volumes for the man.
He is his own man not his fathers son nor subject to the anti-Semitic trends that are stil floating in Austria.
He adopted America and turned it into his own private gold mine by hard work and effort and now he's paying some back.
Sounds okay to me. I don't pretend to know Calif politics intimately but I do know the state has had it's difficulties - it needs a strong leader to motivate - maybe he's the guy - time will tell if he wins....or loses.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Well put macdoc. My thoughts exactly. (well...pretty much, anyway)

And, for once, I have nothing to add.  

(now c'mon...stop cheering, everybody)


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

a


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

There's another issue on the ballot we so easily forget:
Defend and Destroy Democracy?


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