# New mac mini!!!!



## Strimkind (Mar 31, 2005)

10:11 am	iLounge: New Mac mini
Based on Intel, single-processor and dual-processor chip versions.
2.5x - 3.2x faster

Steve Jobs on stage
Fun things to introduce today, "medium scale things."
Update on Intel transition. Discussing Apps.

From macrumors!


----------



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

Woot! Intel Core Duo. Sweet....


----------



## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

They got rid of the firewire port.


----------



## TCB (Apr 4, 2003)

no, FW is still there.


----------



## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Yea, phew, my bad.


----------



## Strimkind (Mar 31, 2005)

can't wait to see the full specs


----------



## TCB (Apr 4, 2003)

ya, wonder what the vid card is...


----------



## mikef (Jun 24, 2003)

Nice touch with the SPDIF out... making it much more ready for the home theatre.


----------



## Strimkind (Mar 31, 2005)

video card will probably be a X1300


----------



## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

SPDIF is nice but almost pointless if the underlying card doesn't put out at least 5.1. Any idea what the specs on the audio will be?


----------



## mikef (Jun 24, 2003)

The info posted on MacRumors.com mentioned Dolby Digital but that could've been somebody assuming that SPDIF meant Dolby Digital.

http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/02/28/liveupdate/index.php


----------



## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

"MacCentral:The Mac mini appears physically the same as it did before, but it's 2.5x to 3.2x faster than its predecessor (using the same benchmarks Apple offers for the iMac and MacBook Pro), thanks to the inclusion of the new Intel Core Solo CPU, depending on clock speed. For the Core Duo models, it's 4.8x or 5.5x times faster on those tests.

The entry-level Mac mini system, available starting today, is a 1.5GHz Core Solo system with 667MHz bus, 512MB RAM, 60GB SATA hard drive and "Combo" DVD-ROM/CD-RW drive for $599 -- $100 more than the previous base model.

The 1.67GHz Core Duo-based model features an 80GB SATA internal hard disk and 8x "SuperDrive" that can burn DVDs as well as CD-Rs, for $799.

"Fifty percent of our entire product line is now available with Intel processors, in less than sixty days," said Jobs."

I want one!


----------



## Strimkind (Mar 31, 2005)

so do I...it also seems that thats all we get. We get Intel Mac Mini, leather iPod cases and the iBoombox. Still not bad considering I was hoping for the mini


----------



## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

Anyone have any info onthe Mac mini video card?

edit:
Sorry, I see this was already asked.


----------



## mikeinmontreal (Oct 13, 2005)

No PVR.....too bad. No reason to rush in for me.


----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

Ottawaman said:


> Anyone have any info onthe Mac mini video card?


Intel GMA950 graphics processor with 64MB of DDR2 SDRAM shared with main memory(1) whatever the hell that is....


----------



## mikef (Jun 24, 2003)

> All Mac mini models also include an integrated Intel GMA950 graphics processor with 64MB of shared DDR2 SDRAM(1), 10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet, four external USB 2.0 ports, FireWire 400 port, optical digital and analog audio in/out, and built-in mono speaker


Hmmm... not sure about the Intel graphics, but it should be fine for DVD playback and HT stuff.


----------



## mikef (Jun 24, 2003)

mikeinmontreal said:


> No PVR.....too bad. No reason to rush in for me.


No surprise really... no integrated tuner. It's not the right platform for a PVR, IMHO. Certainly not enough disk space.


----------



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

*Video Card:*
GMA950 graphics processor with 64MB of shared DDR2 SDRAM


----------



## mikef (Jun 24, 2003)

Also, you'd think they'd throw the S-Video cable in...


----------



## yo_paully (Sep 20, 2004)

http://www.apple.com/macmini/whatsinside.html


----------



## BobbyFett (Jan 12, 2005)

didn't apple used to use anti-shared graphics memory quotes in their PR?


----------



## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

Macified said:


> SPDIF is nice but almost pointless if the underlying card doesn't put out at least 5.1. Any idea what the specs on the audio will be?


It looks like Dolby 5.1 in and out. Awesome. It's not a PVR but with enhancements to Front Row and the speed boost, it looks like a mini will now work for me. Gets a bit pricey though at $949 for the Core Duo model.

When I update my TV to go from component inputs to HDMI/DVI, I'll consider one of these babies. Anyone know if I can get a DVI to component adapter that doesn't cost as much as a mini?


----------



## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Lars said:


> *Video Card:*
> GMA950 graphics processor with 64MB of shared DDR2 SDRAM


*Grinds teeth*

Definitely not a gaming machine.


----------



## MacME (Mar 15, 2005)

ppl have been saying with a duo, you can get by with your current apps with Rosetta. i wonder how the single would do. any speculations?


----------



## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

Other noteworthy changes: two RAM slots (max total 2 GB), hard drive options up to 120 GB. (Are these still laptop drives?)


----------



## MacDaddy (Jul 16, 2001)

I am really dissapointed to tell you the truth. Says you can hook it up to your TV, yet there is no TV out. You buy a cable from Belkin that will allow you to do it on any Mac with DVI (For HDTV). For Standard TV, its just like the iBook out Adaptor, of course, not included. And the Audio Out is still a Mini Jack that requires the purchase of an adaptor! No Optical Out to use the current cable I already have! WTF!!!
Why do they keep doing this to me. Not interested, yet again.


----------



## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

iMatt said:


> Other noteworthy changes: two RAM slots (max total 2 GB), hard drive options up to 120 GB. (Are these still laptop drives?)


They're SATA drives and hopefully bumped up to 5400RPM.


----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

GMA950 graphics processor with 64MB of shared DDR2 SDRAM(1)

footnote 1. Memory available to Mac OS X may vary depending on graphics needs. Minimum graphics memory usage is 80MB, resulting in 432MB of system memory available.

??? WTF??? The graphics process _shares_ 64meg, but the *MINIMUM* usage is 80meg....


----------



## mikef (Jun 24, 2003)

Macified said:


> Anyone know if I can get a DVI to component adapter that doesn't cost as much as a mini?


The DVI implementation is DVI-I so it supports both analog and digital. The Audio Authority Model 9A60 VGA to Component Video $129 US on their website. Should be available elsewhere for less.


----------



## Trevor... (Feb 21, 2003)

I was able to fire up some games on the 900 powered developer machine, while they were playable this is a pretty major step down from the Radeon.

I knew they were going to go the integrated graphics route, but I was expecting them to use an ATI integrated chipset.

http://www.ati.com/products/radeonxpress200intel/index.html

Fortunately for the future, it appears Intel is getting out of the market leaving it to ATI.


----------



## pcronin (Feb 20, 2005)

I just tried to order the single core, with the 100 gb bto option, and my damn visa got turned down*grumbes @ the bank*
so I'll have to wait for this...


----------



## iBrodie (Sep 11, 2004)

*5400 Rpm*

Just to confirm the new Mac Mini's are using 5,400 rpm Hard Drives!


> Storage
> 60GB or 80GB 5400-rpm Serial ATA hard disk drive; optional 100GB or 120GB drive2


----------



## Trevor... (Feb 21, 2003)

There is a pretty inexpensive ATI DVI-Component adaptor, I don't however know if it is ATI propritary or not.


----------



## wenxue (Apr 6, 2005)

The new mini is way too expensive! With the 1499 imac core duo, you get iSight, a decent screen, a larger hard drive, KB/M, faster processor and last but not least, a real video card, all for just 500 more.


----------



## Mad Mac (Mar 13, 2005)

I think the only reason to buy a Mini now is if you want the cute little computer. 700 for the solo 300 for a display, 100 for keyboard and mouse. I think I'de find the extra 400 bucks and just get the 17" iMac. Way better graphics card, 3x the HD space and faster dual core cpu. I would say the "new" mini is a step in the wrong direction.


----------



## mikef (Jun 24, 2003)

Trevor... said:


> There is a pretty inexpensive ATI DVI-Component adaptor, I don't however know if it is ATI propritary or not.


I believe it is... it only works on a certain level of ATI video card (ie. 8500DV and higher, which indicates some sort of dependence on the video chipset).


----------



## mikef (Jun 24, 2003)

wenxue said:


> The new mini is way too expensive! With the 1499 imac core duo, you get iSight, a decent screen, a larger hard drive, KB/M, faster processor and last but not least, a real video card, all for just 500 more.


Agreed. It's a hefty premium to pay for small form factor. The iMac is a much better value.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

We're at $990 complete 17" LCD /wireless KB and mouse for the Solo which we think is decent.
It will appeal to those with a monitor.

The key to the other 1.67 CoreDuo unit ( BTW in general I agree with your view on the 17" Intel Imac ) is to find a 20" Widescreen at a good price so it competes with the 20" not the 17".

We like the 2 gig RAM capacity. Overall not bad tho the low end adoption is reduced by not having Classic available.


----------



## RyanA (Nov 20, 2005)

It seems odd that MacBooks and iMacs went down in price, and the minis went up fairly sharply in price.


----------



## Paul O'Keefe (Jun 3, 2005)

Maxing out the RAM from apple is cheaper now. $360 for 2 GB or RAM in the mini.


----------



## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

mikef said:


> Agreed. It's a hefty premium to pay for small form factor. The iMac is a much better value.


The iMac is definitely a better value but the target market is completely different. I think Apple is finding that these are selling to people who want them to be more than a "computer". Integration into home audio/video systems is getting better and better. For anyone buying a decent screen and audio system, a Mac mini is easy to include for basic audio/video serving needs. No it's not a PVR but that's not Apple's market either. Neither is this a gaming machine. This really is for those users out there who want iTunes on their stereo and tv. Getting pretty pricey though if that's all you really want but it's still cheaper than an iMac and fits much better than having a 17" screen sitting beside your big screen tv.


----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

Bad day for Stevie and Apple! 

A big "Meh!" to the iPod HiFi (pointless), and another "Meh!" for the Intel Mini (overpriced and undergunned in the video dept.).

Long time since those b'ys scored a '2 meh' day. Has Apple gone over the tipping point?


----------



## Paul O'Keefe (Jun 3, 2005)

I think its bad that the price has increased. That should have never happened. However I am glad that 2 GB of RAM is now the new limit. It really should have been that all along. RAM is more important than ever to the mini because the video requires sharing and because of rosetta emulation of power pc applications.

I think one might best be served by going for the lower unit and maxing out the ram than going for the duo.


----------



## thejst (Feb 1, 2005)

I'm with Paul. A price increase won't make much sense to the target market. 

I do like the line-in and added USB ports, but I HATE the move to integrated graphics. I think it's a dumb move on their part. 

Bring on the old G4 Mini firesales! If I could pic another one up for 300 bucks, it would be worth it...

James


----------



## TCB (Apr 4, 2003)

shared graphics mem....that sucks huge


----------



## mikef (Jun 24, 2003)

thejst said:


> I do like the line-in and added USB ports, but I HATE the move to integrated graphics. I think it's a dumb move on their part.


It wasn't a gaming machine with the old video chipset it used either. The move to Intel graphics won't make a lick of difference to most people.



> Bring on the old G4 Mini firesales! If I could pic another one up for 300 bucks, it would be worth it...


Most definitely!


----------



## pcronin (Feb 20, 2005)

I'd say the main reason the price increase, is intel procs are more expensive than PPC. and to redesign the mobo from ppc to intel probably took a lot more in the mini form factor than the imac/macbook pro.

that said, I'm looking at this as a temp desktop while saving for either a powermac or a 20" imacintel, and once I get my bigger system this mini becomes either the home theater(with some minor mods) or becomes the brain/heart of my car stereo/nav/entertainment system. Either way, it's going to be long term use, and not exactly what it was ment for


----------



## VNJ85 (Feb 24, 2006)

> It seems odd that MacBooks and iMacs went down in price, and the minis went up fairly sharply in price.


Sorry, what? What prices went down, I dont see any lowering.


----------



## pcronin (Feb 20, 2005)

VNJ85 said:


> Sorry, what? What prices went down, I dont see any lowering.


They ment b/c of the unspoken upgrades, (ie: 1.67 became 1.8 for the same price)


----------



## najibs (Feb 27, 2005)

Meh...iMac still seems to be a more attactive option for $500 more. Better everything and more thrills...


----------



## VNJ85 (Feb 24, 2006)

ohhhh. rightio, jolly good then. wot wot.


----------



## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

rgray said:


> Bad day for Stevie and Apple!
> 
> A big "Meh!" to the iPod HiFi (pointless), and another "Meh!" for the Intel Mini (overpriced and undergunned in the video dept.).
> 
> Long time since those b'ys scored a '2 meh' day. Has Apple gone over the tipping point?


Not to say that everyone reacted the same way in these cases, but there were many vocal critics for all of these:

Original iPod: looked feature-poor and overpriced next to the competition. The infamous Slashdot snap judgment, echoed by many at the time: "No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame."

iPod with video: "Nobody will watch video on that wee screen." (Of course, with this one succeeding, Apple has to eat Steve's oft-quoted words.)

TV downloads: "Nobody will pay to download what they can watch for free. And they won't want to watch it on an iPod."

(A two "meh" day for many critics)

Original iBook: "Candy coloured toilet seats? Meh."

Original iMac: "There's no floppy drive! Are they nuts?"

Flat-panel iMac: "Nobody will buy this over-priced, under-powered desk lamp."

iPod shuffle: "There's no screen! Do they take us for fools?"

Mac mini (original): "But...but...you can get a Dell with keyboard and monitor for $100 less!"

(Another two "meh" day)

iTunes music store: "You can't compete with free p2p."

g4 Cube: "Overpriced, under-powered." Ah, there's one the critics got right.

Either or both of these new products/updates could well prove to be big flops. But time and again over the past eight years Apple has proven that it knows its business better than most of us armchair critics. 

The mini has already shown it has a niche. It's not a flagship product, but evidently it's worth doing from Apple's perspective. If the price proves too high for the market, it will come down. 

The iPod Hi-Fi is admittedly on much shakier ground, but here the criticisms sound almost exactly like those leveled at the original iPod. I predict that if it sounds half as good as the puffed-up marketing copy claims, it will be a successful niche product at worst. They key is that it will have to be a killer performer that can hold its own against comparably priced, bulkier gear.


----------



## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

The Mini is still an awesome system provided you are coming over from a PC or perhaps even you have an old system you want to upgrade to for cheap, already have an iSight, keyboard, and monitor. Boo to them for raising the price but it's still decent.


----------



## RyanA (Nov 20, 2005)

VNJ85 said:


> Sorry, what? What prices went down, I dont see any lowering.


Powerbooks were $2399, and the MacBook came out at $2299. iMacs I think didn't move.


----------



## saxamaphone (May 18, 2004)

The imac represents excellent value but you cant slide an iMac under your TV in your living room. Not everyone lives in a dorm. A mini is nice hub to connect to your TV that can wirelessly hook into any mac in your home and stay out of site (if you wish). It has multiple remote control options via infrared or bluetooth (i use Romeo & bluetooth thru my cellphone). I has the full iLife with Front row. Core duo just means you have a high-powered option where before you did not. The memory capacity is bumped to 2GB and it doesnt cost your first born to max it out. All wireless connectivities are standard out of the box on all models. I think the duo w/ superdrive is a great little computer, the powerful option that was always missing from the mini lineup... believe me I have a 1.42G4 mini and it is a dog. The shared graphics are a disappointment so dont throw your console away just yet... my days of games are over so no loss for me. I can see an upgrade in my future, now how do i get this by the wife????


----------



## Mac Yak (Feb 7, 2005)

Let me be the first in this thread, then, to say that I have placed an order for the 1.66 GHz Intel Core Duo with 1 GB of SDRAM. It should be in my sweaty hands within two weeks, and should at least make for some interesting comparisons with my current 1.42 GHz PowerPC mini (512 MB). 

In this case, I am not one of the Knights Who Say "Meh"


----------



## Derrick (Dec 22, 2004)

Mac Yak said:


> Let me be the first in this thread, then, to say that I have placed an order for the 1.66 GHz Intel Core Duo with 1 GB of SDRAM. It should be in my sweaty hands within two weeks, and should at least make for some interesting comparisons with my current 1.42 GHz PowerPC mini (512 MB).
> 
> In this case, I am not one of the Knights Who Say "Meh"


I am about to order one with the same configuration ... it has everything I was looking for ... Front Row, DVI and optical out.

It is going to serve as my media server in my living room ... the great thing is that I can keep my iTunes library on the machine in my office ... since Front Row now supports shared libraries.


----------



## harrytse (Nov 3, 2005)

shared video memory doesn't seem to be a move in the right direction, even vista encourages dedicated video. my recent purchase of a powerpc mac mini was still a wise purchase.


----------



## Derrick (Dec 22, 2004)

Here are some details on the Intel graphics chipset:

http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/gma950/

Agreed that shared video memory is a scary path ... however, the Mac mini was never intended to do 'heavy lifting'.


----------



## Mac Yak (Feb 7, 2005)

Derrick said:


> I am about to order one with the same configuration ... it has everything I was looking for ... Front Row, DVI and optical out.
> 
> It is going to serve as my media server in my living room ...


That's what I figure for my setup.



harrytse said:


> shared video memory doesn't seem to be a move in the right direction, even vista encourages dedicated video. my recent purchase of a powerpc mac mini was still a wise purchase.


I've got some pals who can put both of these minis through their paces. I'll know within a month whether I'll keep one or the other.


----------



## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

I'm not going to bother reading the first 6 pages.. but I think this is rediculous. Wasn't the whole point or at least some of the point of moving to Intel to be able to offer CHEAPER prices??


----------



## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

kloan said:


> I'm not going to bother reading the first 6 pages.. but I think this is rediculous. Wasn't the whole point or at least some of the point of moving to Intel to be able to offer CHEAPER prices??


Not really. The transition to Intel is for the speed on the low end machines and that's about it.


----------



## jonmon (Feb 15, 2002)

whew, glad it's not such a great update so i feel fine with my current mini 

although i do like the 4 usb ports at the back


----------



## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

Vexel said:


> Not really. The transition to Intel is for the speed on the low end machines and that's about it.


Just the low-end machines? I thought it was portables first, low end second, but also for better long-term room for performance improvement across the board.


----------



## MacAddict (Jan 29, 2006)

I don't get it. When is Apple going to come out with a contender to go up against Windows XP Media Center Edition ? The Mac-mini is all well and good, but somehow I don't think it has the wherewithal to provide video, especially HDTV, to a TV set, let alone someone's dormroom monitor. As soon as Jobs gets with it, I'll say goodbye to PCs and Windows for good. 

I broached the subject in The Apple Store and the Genius was just as exasperated as I was with the absence of any timetable on when we might expect Apple to get with the Home Entertainment idea. Come on Steve, in case you haven't noticed, it's the 21st Century !


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

It's the perfect computer for GarageBand, Even got a faster 7200 rpm h.d.
Don't really need a hefty video card for audio app pallets, Plus 2 gb of ram is a bonus.

Four USB ports?...Must be for all the USB music hardware.



> All Mac mini models also include an integrated Intel GMA950 graphics
> processor with 64MB of shared DDR2 SDRAM(1), 10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet,
> four external USB 2.0 ports, FireWire 400 port, optical digital and analog audio in
> out, and built-in mono speaker.


Quoted from the Apple store about the hard drives in the Mac Mini:


> A variety of hard drive capacities are available for Mac mini. All Mac mini models include
> standard Serial ATA hard drives featuring data transfers up to 1.5 Gigabits per second. All hard drives
> run at 7,200 revolutions per minute (rpm).


Sure I'd buy one.

D


----------



## capitalK (Oct 21, 2003)

I don't think Apple or Steve Jobs have ever said that the move to Intel was because they were cheaper. If that was the case they'd put Celerons in the low-end machines.

They switched because Intel has a roadmap that makes sense, with processors that use up very little power. Remember, the reason there hasn't been a G5 Powerbook is because they run too damn hot. 

Motorola and IBM were only making chips for one desktop computer maker... Apple. Their chips are used in all sorts of equipment, from cars to routers, but Apple was the only mainstream computer purchaser using them for the main processor. Getting on board with Intel made so much sense for so many reasons, only one of which is price.


----------



## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Bill Gates did a terrible job with Media Centre Edition, Steve Jobs doesn't want to screw up either. When you throw a product in that no one wants in the first place you'll get a bomb. If Steve Jobs manages to make an awesome Front Row 2.0 with PVR support, and the costs come down enough so it's not a heavy price increase over a non PVR Mini, and people see this feature more as a bonus than a burden, plus if it can support digital TV (a plus) then it'll be ready for prime time. Otherwise a lot of people are still happy with their VCRs or downloading off iTunes Music Store or BitTorrent.


----------



## mikef (Jun 24, 2003)

harrytse said:


> my recent purchase of a powerpc mac mini was still a wise purchase.


Just because of shared memory video? You've got to be kidding. These new Minis will blow the doors off the G4 Minis.


----------



## mikef (Jun 24, 2003)

kloan said:


> I'm not going to bother reading the first 6 pages.. but I think this is rediculous. Wasn't the whole point or at least some of the point of moving to Intel to be able to offer CHEAPER prices??


Apple never said anything of the sort did they?


----------



## Digital_Gary (Sep 18, 2003)

dolawren said:


> Quoted from the Apple store about the hard drives in the Mac Mini:
> 
> _Quote:
> A variety of hard drive capacities are available for Mac mini. All Mac mini models include
> ...


Where did you read that? According to 
http://www.apple.com/macmini/whatsinside.html



Apple's Link above said:


> Storage:
> 60GB or 80GB 5400-rpm Serial ATA hard disk drive; optional 100GB or 120GB drive


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Digital_Gary said:


> Where did you read that? According to
> http://www.apple.com/macmini/whatsinside.html



You need to start the process of buying a 1.66 Mac Mini in the Apple Store,
In the area where there are hard drive options you will see this:


> Hard Drive
> A larger hard drive gives you more space for data and applications. Choose the right capacity for you (options available depend on the Mac mini model you choose).
> Learn more


You then click the learn more link and end up here:
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APP...iH8EM/5.0.19.7.0.8.3.49.1.1.1.9.0.0.3.1.1.3.0

Hope that helps
...and just in case it disappears in the near future...
I'll quote it here:


> Hard Drive
> 
> The larger the capacity of your hard drive, the more space is available to store your files and applications. A typical application today takes 10 to 50 megabytes (MB); graphics files can occupy more than 100MB; and video files are often many gigabytes in size. With files growing larger and hard drives becoming bigger, faster, and more affordable, it makes good economic sense to buy a hard drive with enough capacity to last. Capacity is typically measured in gigabytes (GB).
> 
> ...


D


----------



## green_ears (Feb 26, 2005)

Too bad about the lame video card... An on-board radeon would have been waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better if we're going to go with on-board.

I guess Apple is really targetting this to home pc business users.


----------



## Jacklar (Jul 23, 2005)

kloan said:


> I'm not going to bother reading the first 6 pages.. but I think this is rediculous. Wasn't the whole point or at least some of the point of moving to Intel to be able to offer CHEAPER prices??


I'm not defending apple but its simply supply and demand.. Apple knows there is a huge demand so they can jack the price saying the supply is low, when the fad of the new intel chips slows down the prices will also come down.. just wait and it'll pay off. Pick up some cheap mac minis now.


----------



## Digital_Gary (Sep 18, 2003)

Hmmm, conflicting info 

If I was a bettin' man, I'd put my money on 5400rpm drives.


----------



## Mad Mac (Mar 13, 2005)

Didn't the 17" iMac drop from 1599 to 1499 when they got core duo? I don't like the price jump, what rubs me the wrong way is the step back in shared graphics memory. For what I do my PPC Mini is just fine. Does anyone else think its odd you can't buy the old mini anymore?


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Digital_Gary said:


> Hmmm, conflicting info
> 
> If I was a bettin' man, I'd put my money on 5400rpm drives.


I'd call them when they really know what they are selling.

D


----------



## Commodus (May 10, 2005)

Mad Mac said:


> Didn't the 17" iMac drop from 1599 to 1499 when they got core duo? I don't like the price jump, what rubs me the wrong way is the step back in shared graphics memory. For what I do my PPC Mini is just fine. Does anyone else think its odd you can't buy the old mini anymore?


The iMac did drop in price, but only to adjust for currency exchange rates - it's still $1299 US.

As for GMA950, it's not ideal - but it also has CoreImage support the Radeon 9200 lacks.

I'd also say that the price jump isn't necessarily a step backwards, either. On the base model you get 50% more storage; the hard drive speed is faster in all cases; you also get 802.11, Bluetooth, and Front Row out of the box. And if you get the higher-end model, you get a dual-core processor and an 8X dual-layer DVD writer. Apple to me is more addressing complaints about the initial model than it is trying to boost its profits.


----------



## Strimkind (Mar 31, 2005)

I missed a lot of this thread since I had class for 4 straight hours. However now that i have seen the full specifications of the mac mini I have mixed feelings about it. 

Things I like: 

More USB ports
Fast Intel Processor (G4 was outdated 3 years ago)
Same Size
2 RAM slots

Things I am undecided on:

Shared Video
Remote

Things I do not like:

Still Laptop Drives (however it had to stay for the same form factor)
Why bother with a built-in speaker...
Core Solo for base model
No PVR capabilities
Cost

To explain my reasonings for the shared video I believe that jobs saw a certain position for the mac mini in peoples homes. As others have stated in this thread that the mini is now being aimed for a multimedia hub and less as an inexpensive mac for those who are upgrading from older machines. The Mac mini was never designed for gaming and really the mac gaming market is really small (ie Super nintendo = Windows vs Atari jaguar = OS X). This may change in the future but somehow I doubt it.

I was also irritated abotu the cost and how easily they could make a slightly larger mac mini with a 3.5" HD with more storage, less cost which may free up more space for such other items as video out and perhaps cable in (for PVR). The speaker is a useless item that is going to have terrible sound quality and take up space and add cost.

The Apple Remote isn't really anything special I think and it really only works with front row (correct me if I am wrong) and really for those without front row macs, there is MediaCentral and you can purchase an ATI remote wonder which works fine with MediaCentral and the mac. 

Although I had high hopes for the new IntelMini, I am overall disappointed but I remain optimistic for the future.


----------



## Trevor... (Feb 21, 2003)

I wouldn't jump for joy about Core Image on the GMA950, the core takes memory as it needs it, and Core Image can use alot of memory. The purpose of it, and Quartz extreme were taking the memory and cpu intensive 2D processes off the CPU and System Memory and putting them on the videocard and vram. In this case Core Image will be sucking away at System Memory.


----------



## Strimkind (Mar 31, 2005)

If anyone is wondering about the performance of the GMA950 integrated Intel GPU:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1821808,00.asp

It may be on a PC but it gives you the general idea that even when compared to a nvidia 6200TC which is a combination of 32MB local memory and up to 96MB system memory as necessary. 
To sum up, the 6200TC ripped apart the GMA950 in every benchmark and game framerates. So I wonder how it will even perform with Core Image...I think apple should have stuck with a 9550 or some such similar unit. Even the before mentioned ATI X200 integraged processor would have been better.

Something I just thought of though...perhaps it was chosen to reduce the heat pruduced inside the mac mini.


----------



## zarquon (May 24, 2005)

As I pointed out on another forum earlier, wasn't the last PPC base version sold with-out wifi and blue tooth?
this is now included in the intel mini.
The new mini also has the remote... 

This is $70 more than before. I think that I remember the wifi/BT kit costing $150 or so for the DIY kit.

Also, the US pricing has gone up $100US, here it's $70 CAN. Not too shabby really, is it?

Z.


----------



## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

iMatt said:


> Just the low-end machines? I thought it was portables first, low end second, but also for better long-term room for performance improvement across the board.


Sorry, I should rephrase. Intel provided a way to get Apple stuck out of a jam they've been in for a LONG time with the Portable and Low End machines.

Eventually yes, the upper end machines will receive Intel Processors too.. but not until the performance can greatly beat the G5's with less heat and performance/watt ratios.  

Intel Dual Core Xeon anyone?


----------



## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

zarquon said:


> As I pointed out on another forum earlier, wasn't the last PPC base version sold with-out wifi and blue tooth?
> this is now included in the intel mini.
> The new mini also has the remote...
> 
> ...


No, the latest G4 came with BT and AP installed.


----------



## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

Re: RAM

The Apple Store only lists upgrades in pairs, and the 512MB that's in the machine is actually 2x256MB.

Does this mean that the RAM must be installed in matched pairs (bad idea), or not (good idea)?


----------



## Mac Yak (Feb 7, 2005)

kloan said:


> No, the latest G4 came with BT and AP installed.


BT and AP were extras on the original PowerPC Mac mini last February. I'm looking at my receipt, and they're listed there.


----------



## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

mikef said:


> Just because of shared memory video? You've got to be kidding. These new Minis will blow the doors off the G4 Minis.


I agree. 

There is a great deal of wailing on the web about the integrated graphics, but there is no doubt this machine will considerably out-perform the previous Mac mini. The 9200 was a very old chip, but the GMA950 is very new. HT video on a Mac mini? Awesome!

As for 3D games, there will be performance tests posted soon, and I expect the Mac mini will surprise everyone. It won't meet the iMac, but it will likely double the previous mini. I hope all you complainers are ready for some crow-stew. 

Self-satisfied smugness: I predicted Apple would go Intel integrated graphics quite some time ago: http://www.ehmac.ca/showpost.php?p=263040&postcount=6.


----------



## vapour (Feb 18, 2003)

The intergrated graphics is no suprise and it typically what you would expect with a PC in that price bracket. The mini is a slick surf the web and consume media machine, if you want to play games I would look towards the imac.


----------



## capitalK (Oct 21, 2003)

kloan said:


> No, the latest G4 came with BT and AP installed.



You're mis-informed, although the high end did indeed come with Airport Extreme and Bluetooth, the entry level G4 Mac mini (the one he was referring to) did not have those wireless options built-in. They were optional.


----------



## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

Right, forgot about the entry level. Yeah.. they were extra.


----------



## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

Apple discontinues the PowerPC Mac mini

Apple has removed the PowerPC-based Mac mini from its online store after unveiling the new Intel Mac mini earlier today. Apple has continued to offer the G5 versions of their iMac (while supplies last) alongside their Intel counterparts, but apparently Apple planned the Intel mini’s release to better coincide with existing mini inventory.


http://macenstein.com/default/archives/245


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

So which hard drive speed do you think that the new Mac Mini has or will have?

5400 rpm's as posted on the outer part of the Apple website under specifications

7200 rpm's as posted inside the store listing under about the drives in the Mac Mini's

It's a puzzle for sure

Links:
http://www.apple.com/ca/macmini/whatsinside.html
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APP...qI5JO/3.0.19.7.0.8.3.49.1.1.1.9.0.0.3.1.1.3.0

D


----------



## Tiranis (Jun 19, 2005)

5400 rpm... somebody probably screwed up on the product description. Or they're using one and only for all the computers and still didn't figure out that they should change it.


----------



## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Looking at those results, I'd say the GMA 950 has a tad less performance than an ATI 8500 64MB, a 4 year old card. So basically the Mac Mini has the same gaming performance as a 4 year old mid-range gamer machine. *Cough*

My old PC, an AMD XP 2000+ (1.67Ghz) with 512MB RAM and an ATI 8500DV All-In-Wonder scored 7600 on 3DMark2001, compared to 7400 on the GMA 950

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7663011

BTW my system crawled through Doom 3 so I would expect slightly better performance on the Mac Mini -- slow walking speeds.


----------



## Trevor... (Feb 21, 2003)

Gotta love the Google Cache,



> Lock the Target
> Or one 3D game. Go ahead, just try to play Halo on a budget PC. Most say they’re good for 2D games only. That’s because an “integrated Intel graphics” chip steals power from the CPU and siphons off memory from system-level RAM. You’d have to buy an extra card to get the graphics performance of Mac mini, and some cheaper PCs don’t even have an open slot to let you add one.


The performance of the GMA's is a little misleading, while the performance is not especially bad, it lacks alot of the hardware features that other videocards have, so the computer is doing in software what other cards would be doing on the video hardware. To say nothing of the memory. I tried to fire up Grand Theft Auto Vice City, a game from 2003 on a PC with GMA900 graphics and it was completely unplayable,

If you want to play something like return to castle wolfenstein, you will be able to manage, if you want to play something more contemporary... you will be in tears.

Apprently, the GMA900 Series will be the last Intel Integrated Graphics chipset, they have figured it is something they have never done well and ATI can do it much better. Intel has to put a tremendous investment into just making their graphics marginally functional and being in distant 5th place. ATI and nvidia can just drop in a core they have already developed without spending a dime and still brutalize Intel.


----------



## Vishalca (Aug 5, 2004)

*The iMac is a waaaaay better deal!*

I was interested in purchasing a new Mac Mini and held off until this announcement, only to be disappointed further. Not only did they raise the price (I thought the whole purpose of it was to be the first Mac under $500 US?), but the features are nowhere near as impressive as the iMac's. I did some comparisons at the Apple Store, and to make the Mac Mini equal with the iMac, it would cost $1148 CDN, EXCLUDING monitor and with a 120 GB HD, whereas the iMac is $1399 with a 160GB HD, faster processor, and EDU discount.

I think I will now just save up for an iMac.


----------



## mikef (Jun 24, 2003)

The solution is obvious- don't buy a Mac Mini to play games. Since gamers are not the intended market of the Mini, this shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

Most folks here are crying that the mini isn't what they want. So maybe the mini isn't for you. There is no other computer out there with that small a footprint that is what you want either. 

Apple isn't targeting gamers or Mac officianados with this product. The mini was a switcher product (cheap, low features) to compete with the cheap low feature PCs out there. Apple found that there was a demand within the exisiting Mac community for a small media center like box. The new mini is getting closer to being this product and with the increased price tag is less of a switcher product.

I for one would like to see a more feature rich/powerful product that isn't an iMac. I don't want to buy a screen and I don't want a tower (G5). I would like some bang for the buck and this mini is getting closer. Not quite there yet. I don't know why Apple had to go this small with a product. There has to be a decent form factor that could accommodate one card be it for better graphics or sound (less of an issue with the new mini) or whatever and the increased size would leave enough room for real hard drives. Wouldn't cost much more either.


----------



## mikef (Jun 24, 2003)

> There has to be a decent form factor that could accommodate one card be it for better graphics or sound (less of an issue with the new mini) or whatever and the increased size would leave enough room for real hard drives. Wouldn't cost much more either.


Perhaps something like the Cube


----------



## mac_mark (Apr 19, 2004)

Not sure how this will affect gaming, but this is from a developer email list that I am on:

"Do the new intel mac mini's graphics card support
Image Core?
& are they quartz extreme?

Yes & Yes

Although the graphics chip is an embedded Intel i950, and the performance won't be stellar - say compared to the new iMacs or MacBook Pros, but definitely better than the previous Mac Mini"

I'd say that is encouraging news. Considering that the response is from an Apple developer.


----------



## soon2bemac (Nov 2, 2004)

Well I just hope the Video is at least clean so that not as many people end up with mini's for doorstops as did with the first generation.


----------



## Cole Slaw (Aug 26, 2005)

I think the Mac Mini is overpriced. Not crazy about the integrated video business. The iMac continues to be one of the best values out there.


----------



## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

mikef said:


> Perhaps something like the Cube


Maybe but I said it wouldn't cost more The cube is also larger than the what I was thinking. Would half again the width of the mini be big enough for video card? How many home theatre systems are 6" wide? If Apple really wants to make inroads to that market a system the size of a DVD player would give loads of room. It won't happen overnight though. If the mini sells to that market it will eventually take the shape of other components. 

Apple needs to take their time. Can you imagine the outrage of Apple fans if Apple just launched a home theatre component, I mean they are getting totally trashed here for putting out a powered speaker box. I would love for Apple to go the component road with the mini but they aren't ready and the market isn't ready (can't happen until the majority of tv screens have a common digital input).


----------



## kmacphee (May 3, 2005)

*Canadians are getting value*

I am very happy with the new specs...and the cost of the Superdrive option is only $60 Canadian!

That means getting a Superdrive equipped Mini is $759..same as it was for the G4 and you get much higher performance/more USB/Bluetooth/Airport/...etc.

Very impressive for my needs.


----------



## mikef (Jun 24, 2003)

soon2bemac said:


> Well I just hope the Video is at least clean so that not as many people end up with mini's for doorstops as did with the first generation.


Is the S-Video output really not clean on the G4 Mini?


----------



## mikef (Jun 24, 2003)

Macified said:


> If Apple really wants to make inroads to that market a system the size of a DVD player would give loads of room.


Agreed. And for godsakes, it cannot be white if it's going to be taken seriously in a HT environment 



> (can't happen until the majority of tv screens have a common digital input).


So long as the output is DVI-I as it is now, it's got S-Video (and composite), VGA, RGBHV and DVI covered. Component (using an adapter like the Audio Authority I mentioned above or Apple could pick a video chipset that already supports component output). HDMI only requires a physical connection adapter. That's just about everybody and will work on the majority of TV sets/displays on the market right now.


----------



## pcronin (Feb 20, 2005)

mikef said:


> Agreed. And for godsakes, it cannot be white if it's going to be taken seriously in a HT environment


that's what spraypaint is for


----------



## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

An Apple director has commented on the Mac mini graphics for MacWorld: http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/2006/03/miniboger/index.php?lsrc=mwrss


----------

