# The West Wing starts tonight! 8pm



## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

The West Wing
NBC Sep 25 08:00pm 
Series/Drama, 60 Mins.

"The Ticket" 
Josh is surprised when political commentators are critical of Leo as a vice presidential candidate.

Cast: Martin Sheen, Stockard Channing, John Spencer, Bradley Whitford, Allison Janney, Richard Schiff, Dul‚ Hill, Janel Moloney, Joshua Malina, Mary McCormack, Jimmy Smits, Oliver Platt.
Producer(s): John Wells.

Original Airdate: September 25, 2005.


Note. This thread may contain Spoilers


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

This is actually the only show that I watch religiously on TV, next to the CBC news. I am anxiously awaiting this show, in that we get it first here in this part of NL. I am betting on Alan Alda being elected as the next president, although I would vote for Jimmy Smitts.


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

I'm a big fan of the show, it sort of reminds me of MASH.
I checked out the E-ring last week, hoping it would be like the West Wing, but alas, it was nowhere close.


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

I used to love this show and, exactly like you, it was the one thing other than trhe news that we watched regularly. Then it became very preachy and heavy handed and artless and boring, and I stopped watching regularly. In the middle of last season, though, the story arc with the primaries really brought it back to life. Gripping and interesting.

I can't remember another show bouncing back like that.


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

Too bad it isn't broadcast on any Canadian channels, hence my rabbit ears can't pick it up.


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## Trose (Feb 17, 2005)

*May contain spoilers*

I really think it will be Smits who will win. One reason being that it wouldn't be very hard to keep all the same cast with him. Josh is already with him, they've tossed in Leo, according to the West Wing website episode summary Donna is going to ask Josh for a job. If Alda wins, they'll need to get a whole new cast. This is all my speculation, I have no idea what will really happen.


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## Trose (Feb 17, 2005)

What do the rest of you think about the time switch? Used to be on Wednesdays at 9:00 for a long time, now it's going to be on Sundays at 8:00.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Great show tonight. Do not miss it, especially the beginning few minutes and the last few minutes. The show is now picking up some of its stimulating "I can't miss next weeks show" sense, at least in my opinion. We shall see.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

just watched this week's episode and was very disappointed
too many story arcs
writing was very shallow
I forced myself to watch it all the way through

I predict this is the last year for TWW
I actually like the Alda character's political platform - very sensical
a truly moderate Republican is an interersting bird

Leo is miscast as VP candidate
former alcoholic and heart attack survivor and white house chief of staff?
too many skeletons
i hope CJ goes down for the security leak
I don't like how her character has changed

Donna reaps what she sowed
did anyone see Charlie (except opening flash forward)?

the show feels like everyone (actors, writers, directors, producers) are sitting on their laurels and expect us to just "buy into" whatever is written

and E-ring should last about 6 episodes - it really sucked
Benjamin Bratt should be a military recruting poster boy - saves a U.S. spy and gets laid - busy boy


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Michael, just wait with the West Wing. The "arcs" and "loose ends" shall be lead somewhere interesting and be tied together. Trust me on this one.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Michael, remember, that there has been a shift of writers, many of them now have worked for Reagan and Bush Sr.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Right after the flashback at the start, the credits rolled and Smits wasn't in alphabetical order. He was at the end, labelled as "with Jimmy Smits" (or similar - same as Martin Sheen). Don't suppose it means too much, but..... Josh came running up the stairs at the beginning to announce the (new) prez was arriving. He didn't seem part of the group with Bartlett. Was he chief of straff or simply there for the library dedication? Maybe they'll keep us hanging on until the start of the next season (since the election is 100-odd days away they might just stretch it out - although by rights, if today is supposed to be the end of July, then the election episode should be in February - well before the end of the season and right in the sweeps....


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Jim, I noticed that as well, but I am not putting much into it just yet. How I wish this show was going to continue past this season. Paix, mon ami.


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## jlcinc (Dec 13, 2002)

My wife and I were so disappointed when it ended. So fast. We wanted more. 

It would probably be good to record and watch without commercials but we couldn't wait.

John


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

One of the few shows that makes me miss cable. Thank goodness for torrents!


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

jlcinc, my wife and I had the same reaction. My son is like this with "24".


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

RevMatt, this is one of the few shows of which I don't mind watching reruns.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

The "West Wing" is on in about 40 minutes folks. "Be there or be square."


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

I will not be square!


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"Live long and prosper", Ottawaman.


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

back at ya!


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"See you on the flip side"...................an expression which NONE of my undergrad students understand.


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## jlcinc (Dec 13, 2002)

DAMN it's over already, Damn. Ok I know we should be more polite but I want more.

John

Ok, did CJ leak the info???


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

that was a fast hour


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Is a west wing anything like an east wing? Or a south or north wing? (I have never and will never watch.)


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## jlcinc (Dec 13, 2002)

So go and bother other people.

John


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Right, I'm outta here!


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I thought that she had given the reporter the OK to name her as the source, but now I am not so sure. I have a feeling that if she is not the source, she knows who is. For all we know, it was Pres. Bartlett himself. We shall see.


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

Wasn't Toby's brother an Astronaut ? Didn't he commit suicide?


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Dr.G. said:


> I thought that she had given the reporter the OK to name her as the source, but now I am not so sure. I have a feeling that if she is not the source, she knows who is. For all we know, it was Pres. Bartlett himself. We shall see.


What she actually said was; "Go ahead. Name your source."
Next week Bartlett fires someone.

Might have been Toby or CJ.
She definitely KNOWS who is "the source."
I'll avoid the "deep throat" analogy for obvious reasons.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Where's Linda Lovalace when ya need her?


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

Did I miss something or did Santos admit to a homosexual encounter with a flight attendent on Air Lingus?


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## Trose (Feb 17, 2005)

da_jonesy said:


> Did I miss something or did Santos admit to a homosexual encounter with a flight attendent on Air Lingus?


I thought the same thing for a second. No, he was joking.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Ottawaman, I think you are correct. My wife says that it is Toby. I did not see the coming attractions but she did and so is going with Toby. CJ seems now so obvious. We shall see.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Interesting how they are playing up the fact that Santos has served in the Marines and that Varrick has not served a single day. Sort of like the Kerry-Bush comparisons all over again.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sad that this is the last season. It would have been interesting to see the show continue, even if Varrick is elected president. Another four year run for the show would be fine with me.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Trose said:


> I thought the same thing for a second. No, he was joking.


But he did admit to breaking a bed in Cleveland.
He and his (I don't know if she was his wife then) partner broke it after not seeing each other in a while and only having one night together.

Santos's move of serving his national guard committment now instead of waitng was brilliant.

I like the addition of Garafalo.

Now, just where do I get me one of these smart, sexy democrat women that seem to be everywhere on The West Wing?
Do they have a special camp outside Palm Springs?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"Santos's move of serving his national guard committment now instead of waitng was brilliant." Yes, the pics of him boarding his jet for training runs would be a dramatic contrast to Varrick in real life.

"I like the addition of Garafalo." She adds an interesting balance to Josh, who I find a bit much at time. Hopefully, Donna shall be hired on.............or finally become his love interest. We shall see.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Wonder which, if any, of the real issues facing the US shall find its way to the show this year. Here are the issues facing the Supreme Court this term:

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The 2005-2006 U.S. Supreme Court term starts Monday with a meaty docket that features a number of contentious social issues.

Assisted suicide

Religion and drugs

Military recruiting

Abortion notification

Abortion protests

Miranda rights

Death penalty and DNA evidence

Death penalty and sentencing

Search and seizure


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Several of the above plus intelligent design, homeland security/torture and the uninsured heathcare problem (although that's already been covered).


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

A daunting list to be sure. Americans live in troubled domestic times.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Jim, it would be interesting to see how they would play out "intelligent design" on the WW. I wonder if they will have a spin-off of some sort, although I find the genre perfect with this show. We shall see.


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

28 minutes and counting....

edit...

MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS!


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"Live long and prosper"...............or in Bartlet's New Hampshire it is "Live free of die".


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Dr.G. said:


> "Live free of die".


Dr. G. showing off his German?


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

Interesting phrase from a grammatical point of view.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Michael, mea culpa. Having a doxie in one's lap makes typing and spelling difficult. Here, I shall let Abby tell you her side of this story.............

lk[te q 42u9 -das' 234hjwa[p9 ;l'jas9 4 q24ti a]-g'


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Ottawaman, it should be "live freely" just like "think differently". Then there is "trust me on this".... which should be "trust me on this point", "trust me on this one", "trust me on this position". "Trust me on this" is grammatically inaccurate.

Off to watch the WW. Back in an hour.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Dr.G. said:


> Ottawaman, it should be "live freely" just like "think differently". Then there is "trust me on this".... which should be "trust me on this point", "trust me on this one", "trust me on this position". "Trust me on this" is grammatically inaccurate.


Unless you're from SSI.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Great episode. Guessed the Toby ending..........but I thought that the Santos Church/State/Intelligent Design/US Constitution parts were excellent.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Michael, unless Salt Spring Island has left the English speaking world, it is still grammatically inaccurate there as well. Keep in mind that I did not say "incorrect", in that local dialects make it acceptable in certain regions, but this does not make it accurate.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

so Toby is going to the big house (who predicted he was the leak?)

NBC could be owning Wed. nite, but instead give us Martah and E-Ring (glorified military recruiting informmercial)

West Wing on Sunda nights is like sending it into the dessert
too bad, since the show is starting to build momentum

I really like Santos' answer to ID
I hope the Dems are watching


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

Solid episode. Furthering the plot, kind of predictable. The CIA analyst might be something to watch.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Michael, this is the West Wing's last season (sadly  ) but, for me, it makes no difference what night it is on...........I shall watch it still.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Ottawaman said:


> Solid episode. Furthering the plot, kind of predictable. The CIA analyst might be something to watch.


whenever he "surfaces"

the big question is "who" is carrying out these assasinations and for what reason(s)?

they seem disjointed at first, but I sense an evil plan at work
does anyone know where Dr. Evil (aka Mike Myers) is?

 

back to the plot
looks like an attempt to throw a serious monkey wrench into u.s. foreign policy


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Dr.G. said:


> Michael, this is the West Wing's last season (sadly  ) but, for me, it makes no difference what night it is on...........I shall watch it still.


the show should be required viewing for the DNC


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Amen, brother. Maybe they could nominate J. Smits in the Santos-role for president in 2008.


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## Trose (Feb 17, 2005)

Dr.G. said:


> Great episode. Guessed the Toby ending..........but I thought that the Santos Church/State/Intelligent Design/US Constitution parts were excellent.





MACSPECTRUM said:


> so Toby is going to the big house (who predicted he was the leak?)
> 
> NBC could be owning Wed. nite, but instead give us Martah and E-Ring (glorified military recruiting informmercial)
> 
> ...


Damn guys! Give us a heads up! In BC we still have 45 minutes before we see this episode! Jeeze...


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Trose said:


> Damn guys! Give us a heads up! In BC we still have 45 minutes before we see this episode! Jeeze...


note to self;
do not read threads titled "The West Wing" if show has not aired yet.


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## Trose (Feb 17, 2005)

Dr.G. said:


> Michael, this is the West Wing's last season (sadly  ) but, for me, it makes no difference what night it is on...........I shall watch it still.


I was wondering how you know that this is the last season. I haven't heard anything about this being the last season (besides you of course).


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Trose, the producers and NBC have said that this is their last season.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Trose, I guess you don't want to know next week "little" bombshell for the Bartlett family???


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Dr.G. said:


> Trose, I guess you don't want to know next week "little" bombshell for the Bartlett family???


they are offered a doxie, but opt for a cat instead


Bartlett orates about the history of cats down from the time of the ancient Egyptians
Bartlett addresses the nation on tv and cat accidentally jumps onto his desk
world utters collective "awwwww"
then;
north korea disarms its nuclear program
palestinians and isreaelis allow presence UN peacekeepers
iraq and iran sign peace agreement
OPEC doubles prodcution and reduces prices 50%

bartlett wins nobel peace prize and in his speech says he owes it all to being schooled in "the ways of the cat"


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## Trose (Feb 17, 2005)

Dr.G. said:


> Trose, the producers and NBC have said that this is their last season.


Is there a source for this? It's not that I don't believe you, this season would make sense to be the last season... I just can't find _anything_ that says it.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Trose, I am trying to find specific sources online.  I recall reading about this being the final season in the Globe and Mail in August or Sept. Sadly, the move to Sunday has hurt its ratings, although I don't watch shows because of its ratings. I am truly hoping that I am wrong is my contention that this is the final season for the WW. I would love to be proven wrong...........even with an Alan Alda presidency for the new season. We shall see.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

interesting

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/14/AR2005101401982.html


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Michael, this was announced a couple of weeks ago. It should be an interesting twist to this genre of show. We shall see.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

http://www.bartlet4america.org/


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"At this point, it remains to be seen how far into the current season the climactic fictional election will take place and whether the series will even return next fall.

The latter question hinges in large part on whether "West Wing" can overcome its current slump in the Nielsen ratings.

The first two episodes of the new season posted all-time ratings low for the series, with just 7.6 million viewers tuning in to see the show on its new Sunday 8 p.m. berth.

That's well below the show's 11 million-viewer average from last season, when it was airing on Wednesdays at the more heavily watched hour of 9 o'clock."

http://b4a.healthyinterest.net/news/000728.html#more


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Dr.G. said:


> Michael, this was announced a couple of weeks ago. It should be an interesting twist to this genre of show. We shall see.



Marc,
the interesting part was the insight into the actors and their characters.
I should have been more specific with my "interesting." (homage to Col. Klink)


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Michael, I liked the way Artie Johnson used to say "Very interesting" in his mock-German accent on "Laugh in".


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

Oct. 23, 2005
35 minutes.....

Remember spoilers may appear west coast viewers.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I shall not spoil anything for anyone. Trust me on this pledge. Paix, mes amis.


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

Good episode.
Next week should prove interesting.
I thought President Bartlet was a little out of character in the oval office


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

WARNING: west of Eastern time zone people
spoilers below....
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you've been warned...
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ok, last time....
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Ottawaman said:


> Good episode.
> Next week should prove interesting.
> I thought President Bartlet was a little out of character in the oval office


the episode felt dragged out
I would have preferred more time with Bartlett and Toby

I thought Bartlett's reaction was in character and appropriate. He's very "old school" and values loyalty if not to himself, then to the office he holds.
Good thing he gave Toby hell
But I don't believe that ANY white house staffer would go in there WITHOUT counsel
when you get to the white house, you learn about needing a lawyer for almost anything

I wonder if Toby becomes a consultant to the Santoss team?
Maybe not publicly. Weren't they looking for "seasoned" people?

I did like the reaction of Santoss guy who got fired;
"Look in the mirror"

CJ looks like she's gonna lose it any time soon
look for her to be found drunk and dancing half naked on top of a bar in some local beltway tavern screaming; "I gotta have it!!" and then pointing to the cute young guy down the end and saying; "You'll do!!"


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

Spoiler!!!








Toby will be too busy staying out of jail to work for Santos, also he's too tainted to hire now. I l look for Donna to show up somehow.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

My wife and I are wondering what Babish meant when he told Toby that someone should thank him for the work he has done in the West Wing. Was it for the past 71/2 years of service, or leaking the info about the secret space shuttle?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Michael, re your comment that "I thought Bartlett's reaction was in character and appropriate. He's very "old school" and values loyalty if not to himself, then to the office he holds.", I would concur. He really showed controlled rage, especially with his comment that he would not view Toby as a hero for what he did re the leak.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Ottawaman, Donna returns next week, but Lou hires her, not Josh. Still, the issue of abortion and politics shall be in the forefront leading up to the live debate. That should be really interesting.


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

Perhaps Bartlett will grant Toby clemency on his way out of office as the thank you for his service.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

We shall see, OMan.....we shall see.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

or the charge gets reduced to unauthorized NASA info. release instead of the more serious national security violatoin, as per Toby's lawyer's comment


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Michael, come to think of it, the writers have already tipped their hand. If you recall in the first episode of this season, they have the dedication of the Bartlett Library three years hence. Toby is teaching at Columbia, and CJ is expecting a baby. Thus, Toby is not going to jail for 6 years, and CJ is probably not indicted as a co-conspirator as well. So, your speculation may be correct.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Dr.G. said:


> Michael, come to think of it, the writers have already tipped their hand. If you recall in the first episode of this season, they have the dedication of the Bartlett Library three years hence. Toby is teaching at Columbia, and CJ is expecting a baby. Thus, Toby is not going to jail for 6 years, and CJ is probably not indicted as a co-conspirator as well. So, your speculation may be correct.


I had the fact that Toby was teaching at Columbia in mind when I made the above prediction.

Or maybe he gets convicted of the lesser offence and gets probation.

I don't think Barlett would pardon him if he was convicted of violating national security.
I would not like to see that as Bartlett's legacy.
A real life Democratc president did grant some very questionable "rich" pardons.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I never understood why Clinton pardoned some of the people he did as he was leaving office.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Dr.G. said:


> I never understood why Clinton pardoned some of the people he did as he was leaving office.


"ching ching" ring any bells?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Clinton became a SF Metro Cable Car conductor??????


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Dr.G. said:


> Clinton became a SF Metro Cable Car conductor??????


"Rice-a-Roni, the San Francisco treat!"
Marc, you just love your Giants.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Michael, I have loved the Giants since I was four days short of being three and Bobby Thompson hit "the shot heard round the world". Being tossed up into the air by my father was my earliest real memory.

However, I don't like Rice-a-Roni.........but I do love the city of San Francisco.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

From CNN.com

"CNN) -- A majority would vote for a Democrat over President Bush if an election were held this year, according to a CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll released Tuesday.

In the latest poll, 55 percent of the respondents said that they would vote for the Democratic candidate if Bush were again running for the presidency this year."

Where is Pres. Bartlett when we really need him?????


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

33 minutes....
"The Al Smith Dinner" 
When a third party raises the issue of abortion, it brings unwanted attention to both Santos' and Vinick's stance.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Over a year ago I predicted that a third party, tapping into the estimated 40 million Americans who feel that they are part of the "religious right", will field a third party candidate. I feel that if there is a very conservative Congress elected in 2006 and the Republican party does not nominate someone that will actively engage in this group's key causes, then they will run their own candidate. We shall see.


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

Many are saying that the US is quickly becoming a theocracy.


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

interesting political affiliation map
http://www.princeton.edu/~rvdb/JAVA/election2004/


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

27 minutes....

Television: WINGING IT


DEBATE EPISODE ON `WEST WING' LEAVES ROOM FOR SPONTANEITY

By Charlie McCollum

Mercury News

At the end of Sunday's ``The West Wing,'' presidential candidates Matt Santos (Jimmy Smits), the Democrat, and Arnold Vinick (Alan Alda), the Republican, bumped into each other just before New York's annual Al Smith political dinner.





Frustrated by their campaigns' inability to set a date for a debate -- and by the start of negative campaigning from both sides -- Santos challenges Vinick to ``a real debate on the issues, just you and me.''

``How's Sunday night?'' Vinick replies.

That kind of handshake agreement between presidential candidates could happen only in the parallel universe that is ``The West Wing.'' But this coming Sunday night (8 p.m., Chs. 8, 11), Santos and Vinick will indeed meet live (on both coasts) in debate -- at least partly unscripted and with a real TV newsman (ex-ABC anchor Forrest Sawyer) as moderator. The episode will air in two 25-minute blocks, with a short commercial break in between.

The debate episode comes at a critical time for the Emmy-winning ``West Wing,'' now in its seventh season. While the series has been enjoying a creative renaissance with the fierce, cleverly drawn presidential campaign between Vinick and Santos -- and such topical story lines as the recent one about leaks inside the White House -- it is staggering in the Nielsen ratings since a September move to Sunday nights.

Faced with intense competition in its new time period, the show has seen its audience drop from 11 million viewers to fewer than 8 million. The show is taking enough of a beating that after Sunday's episode, NBC will take it off the schedule for the rest of November sweeps.

At the same time, it has been eclipsed in the public mind by ``Commander in Chief,'' ABC's new and less sophisticated Oval Office drama that has become a top 10 hit despite implausible plot lines and broadly drawn moments that are laughably unrealistic.

While NBC and the producers hope the live episode will give the show's ratings a badly needed jolt, executive producer John Wells says the debate is just another example of ``The West Wing'' trying ``to say what we wish our politics were.''

Wells contends that ``to even call our current presidential debates `debates' is stretching the term,'' since all the elements -- questions, format -- are ``so pre-negotiated'' that they take the life out of the head-to-head meetings.

Wells suggests that presidential debates have evolved since the first televised one, between John F. Kennedy and Richard M. Nixon in 1960, into a platform for the candidates ``not to engage each other, but to give another version of their stump speech.''

The results are debates with so little substance that ``you're just looking for that one moment when somebody makes a slip. You're looking for things that are so minor that it's like reading tea leaves,'' Alda says.

``The whole idea about doing'' the episode, Alda says, ``was to try to do a debate in which the characters actually debated. We will try to set up a world in which the candidates can have a real exchange. And maybe some people will wonder why we can't have that all the time.

``It's a very conscious effort on our part to appeal to what should be our better nature.''

This isn't the first time ``The West Wing'' has built an episode around a presidential debate. In its fourth season, there was one between President Josiah Bartlet (Martin Sheen) and challenger Robert Ritchie (James Brolin).

But that episode dealt mostly with the behind-the-scenes machinations surrounding the debate. Sunday's episode will be devoted exclusively to the exchange of ideas. And while there is a script -- written by longtime ``West Wing'' writer Lawrence O'Donnell, a former political consultant -- Alda and Smits will be asked to improvise at least some of their comments.

Alda suggests that the episode may be ``less scripted than a regular debate.'' And Smits, who admits he's ``sweating'' about the live performance, says, ``We're just going to try to go out with a little bit of a net and riff a little bit.''

Both actors are products of the theater, and both have done more than their share of public speaking on behalf of causes they believe in, so improvisation is hardly new to either man. And it sounds as if they're taking their preparations seriously, even if the outcome is preordained by O'Donnell's script.

``Of course I want to win the debate. Some part of me does, anyway,'' Alda says. ``But you do have to go along with what the story is. If the story doesn't actually have Richard III winning the battle, no matter how much he wants to win, he doesn't win.

``But you still have to want it. Even in my imagination, I would love to rule the world.''

Listening to Alda, Smits quickly adds: ``Alan wants to cream me out there.''


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

OMan, I read this article earlier today. How I hope that the WW gets the "jolt" it needs for the producers and the network to bring it back for another year. We shall see.


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

We can hope.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Great show!!! If this is not the jolt they need, I don't know what is.


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

Santos is leading the poll 61-39 so far


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I shall vote for him when I log on to NBC.com


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

http://www.nbc.com/The_West_Wing/Campaign/


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

OMan, in time, my friend, in time. Doxies must be taken care of first.


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

Damn the Doxies! Full steam ahead!


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

The NBC server is VERY slow here in the Center of the Internet Universe.


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

Yes it is very sloooowwww


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Farragut's cry of "Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!" is now the stuff of legend, but I don't think he had doxies on board his flagship.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I am still waiting for my vote for Santos to be tallied.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

This could mean a great deal of interest in the show. Now, all we need are some new viewers from different demographics to help bring the show back for another season.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"Error on getting user info
Error is Error: syntax error"

Rats!!!!!


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

I had that one too, but I eventually gained access.
I hope the surge of interest bodes well for the show.

Canada was mentioned frequently.
Oil, drugs, economy, border and so forth.


----------



## DEWLine (Sep 24, 2005)

Dr.G. said:


> My wife and I are wondering what Babish meant when he told Toby that someone should thank him for the work he has done in the West Wing. Was it for the past 71/2 years of service, or leaking the info about the secret space shuttle?


Quite possibly both.

Whether Bartlet can afford to admit it or not.

Consider: the military space shuttle was a gross violation of multiple treaties. For which reason, I'm a little disappointed that it didn't get roped into "The Debate" tonight.


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## since84 (Jan 9, 2002)

I am now watching the west coast broadcast (Yay! timeshifting). It's ver different because the actors' performances have changed. Jimmy Smits is playing Santos stronger and Alan Alda has pulled Vinnick back a little. Changes the dynamic and i think for the better.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I have the west coast show on tape, so it shall be interesting to see the differences in these two debates.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Finally got through to vote for Santos. He is now ahead 70%-30%.


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

*poll results 6am*

poll standings


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Than you for the pictoral clarification of my posted results. I am a bit surprised by this wide spread, since I think that Allan Alda's closing arguements were strong.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Dr.G. - I thought Vinick/Alda ended his debate horribly. He refused to make a pledge not to go to war over oil. Then he used his last minutes to talk about the freedom of small government - to reduce taxes, etc, etc. If Santos had been given the last word, he'd have stomped all over him for reduction of services, greater disparities, etc. 

As for the poll, I think the show tends to pick up a more Democratic audience. The Republicans probably can't stomach Martin sheen. Too bad.....


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Jim, I agree with your contention that there are probably more viewers who are Democrats watching the WW. However, as an American, when you close a debate with the words "freedom", "liberty", etc., you might as well be saying "apple pie and mom" as well. Vinick brought up the point, and accurately so, that no president could pledge-away their Constitutional reponsibility to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America". As Vinick contended, you can make the pledge, but keeping to it would be another matter. As well, there needs to be this issue for later shows, since this is a headlines issue today in real life. Paix, mon ami.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

i have been without electric power since sunday afternoon and as such missed the west wing live debate

i am at a friend's house on his computer and no power in sight until maybe 11 pm tonight

can anyone give me a synopsis of the episodes? east vs. west coast feeds?

i know i can just read reviews online, but i am used to the political heritage of ehmac members....


----------



## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Dr. G., I actually found his resort to "apple pie" issues undid all of his previous arguments. It's as if he gave up on the intellectual debate and fell back on motherhood. In essence, he fell back to "you, the voters, know best what to do with your money - not the government". Unfortunately, this is abundantly untrue - although his position is strengthened by bad government. Being a member of a society brings with it responsibilities. Expecting people to put their money voluntarily into regional issues, legislative issues, social issues, etc, is simply naive - albeit the basis for the Republican agenda.

I don't know enough about the US Constitution to argue the "pledge" issue. I guess my rebuttal would be that before the President signs an act to ask Congress to engage in a war and place its citizens directly in harms way, the President should provide clear and present rationale for doing so. Bush and Cheney's slight of hand and contempt for the process prior to invading Iraq should provide the obvious need to prevent such an abuse of power in the future.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Jim, Varick is a cross between Ike and Calvin Coolidge, with a touch of Teddy Roosevelt thrown in to make his views on abortion more acceptable. 

Re the Presidential Oath of Office to ""preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America", the president is also the Commander in Chief of all of the armed forces. Thus, he is able to commit troops into battle to "protect" America, but it is the Congress that has to officially declare war via a vote of the House and Senate, and then allocate funds to support the troops. 

In the case of Bush, a abuse of power claim might be made in that he basically lied to the American Congress and the people of the world, although he does not see it as a lie.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

No West Wing on tonight.  Still, the show of Dec.4th shall have an interesting array of events, both foreign and domestic.


----------



## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

Yes, my evening seems less fun.
I look forward to Dec, 4th


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

There are reruns of season 4 on the Canadian Learning Television station on M/T/W.


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## jlcinc (Dec 13, 2002)

I'm pissed off but they must have a reason (ABC). Maybe they're trying to kill the show it already has enough problems attracting viewers.

John


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

yeah, they figure they can pay a lot less money to a burn out like Dennis Hopper and a pretty boy like Benjamin Bratt and still tug on the patriotic heart strings of viewers. (I'm talking about E-Ring)
Also Martha's Apprentice incarnation is the old West Wing time slot.

Hmmm, let's see. Would I rather see insightful writing and great acting about the inner machinations of the White House or watch a convicted felon pretend she's a nice person to try to get her personal ratings back up, watch a guy fondle an unlit cigar like, well, you know..... and a robotic daughter that reminds me of Princess Margarett - "all horse" if you get my meaning

hmmmmm, 3 guesses and the first 2 don't count.

I wonder why Law and Order or ER weren't moved to Sunday nights after their 7th season.

idiots

don't even ask me who pissed in my Cheerios this morning...
it's Monday


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Michael, I have to admit that I have not watched E-Ring yet. It looks interesting, but my TV time is limited.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Dr.G. said:


> Michael, I have to admit that I have not watched E-Ring yet. It looks interesting, but my TV time is limited.


Marc, save yourself an hour and don't bother.
every script synopsis;

1. good looking pentagon guy gets laid
2. good looking pentagon guy gets "secret mission" to kill bad guys
3. good looking pentagon guy kibitzes with old war horse pentagon guy who called him "kid"
4. good looking pentagon guy flirts w/ co-worker, then gets laid


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Certainly not of the calibre of WW from your description.


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## jlcinc (Dec 13, 2002)

New West Wing in 2 hours and 13 minutes.

John


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

Thank you for the post! I had no idea.
Cheers


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Yes, it has been a month since the "great debate". Last figures I say had the public thinking that less than 30% felt that Varrick won the debate.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

i think NBC is really killing this show by putting it on a 3 week hiatus and moving it to Sunday

and the idiots at NBC don't even notice how well, "C in C" is doing even though its story line and writing is a poor imitation of TWW


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

boring episode
it's obvious that sheen is paid by the episode, hence his absence
the only new characters i like are; garafalo and alda
the cj craig character gets way too much screen time and that barbie doll NSC woman is not believable
[yaaawwnnnnn]


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Michael, I liked the speech that Santos gave at the LA church.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Dr.G. said:


> Michael, I liked the speech that Santos gave at the LA church.


it's a great speech that I can see Chomskyk giving, but a candidate for the presidency?
sheer fancy


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Michael, remember, it's TV and not real politics. Can you imagine a real debate like the one they have last month???? No way in real life, although I would love to see something like this someday.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Dr.G. said:


> Michael, remember, it's TV and not real politics. Can you imagine a real debate like the one they have last month???? No way in real life, although I would love to see something like this someday.


i missed that episode


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## jlcinc (Dec 13, 2002)

Watching West Wing. Is this a rerun? Or did they edit a Leo special.

John


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

it's the newest episode

with all due respect to the memory of John Spencer, it was a lame episode
was it only me that theard his laboured breathing at the end of the show?

Santos's wife is coming across like a real b*tch


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Michael, my wife and I watched, and she felt that Ms. Santos came across as quite real. If I was running for president of the US, she would not want to be under the microscope either..................especially since I would be the first Jewish president..........and she the first First Lady who was not an American citizen. Of course, I would have an African-American woman who was a lesbian as my VP, so we would blow all the stereotypes off the map.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

really?
i found her quite unbelievable and sanctimonious
mrs. santos, not mrs. g.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Michael, I can only imagine what it must be like to suddenly have your spouse run for a high office and to be thrust into the media frenzy for any sort of news.


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## jlcinc (Dec 13, 2002)

Wasn't she the one who pushed him to run. The new term (last year) used to describe her photo is "whale tail".

John


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

John, if I recall, she had her doubts at first and then supported his decision to run after his speech at the Democratic convention.


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## jlcinc (Dec 13, 2002)

Great show tonight. Sad, sad, news, NBC to air last episode of West Wing in May.

I'm depressed.

John


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

good episode,
too bad


----------



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

best episode this season
the nuclear accident was enuf drama
the china/russia war thing was almost a bit over the top

now we see how santos can possibly win the election


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Michael, I agree. This is what the WW is all about..............can't understand why they saved the best for the final season.


----------



## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

One thing I couldn't help but think when I was watching tonight's episode is why couldn't our federal candidates learn that sometimes not saying anything is sometimes the best way of winning support. I missed what actually happened when Donna went down to talk to the reporter and then didn't say anything. So maybe I am wrong and the Santos campaign did do a little smear job.

The first candidate in an election that shows a little class and avoids the mud-slinging will probably get my vote. I'm sick of the negative campaigning.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

when donna went down to "prompt the reporter" the reported already had the story, hence her quick exit

as for politicians saying nothing, then control freaks like josh and others of his ilk would be out of jobs
i noticed that josh went against the direct orders of his boss/candidate when he did send donna down to prompt the reporter

ron silver's character was correct in surmising that josh can't stay away from that story - josh just showed he's as much of a whore as the rest of 'em

so maybe santos wins but finds out about josh's indiscretion and josh doesn't get chief of staff cause santos says; "i just can't trust you in a crunch"

josh ends up doing the sunday talk show circuit as the resident democrat


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Michael, you might be accurate in your speculation. Personally, I never cared for Josh's character all throughout the show.


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## JPL (Jan 21, 2005)

CJ as the VP candidate, they win, Santos dies somehow, CJ becomes Pres and WW stays on the air and competes head to head with Commander in Chief!!!!!!!


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

JPL, that is stretching the storyline a bit much, but anything to keep them on the air would be fine with me.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I see by this morning's paper the final episode is due to be broadcast in May. Then it's -30-.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sinc, don't rub it in, SVP. What does "Then it's -30-" mean???


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

It's a newspaper term Dr. G.

When one is finished writing a story or column, one simply types 

-30-

so the editors know there is no more to come and the story is complete.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Merci, mon frere.

 for the WW.


----------



## JPL (Jan 21, 2005)

DrG it's TV, hell you can do whatever you fancy with these programs. 
Stretch, twist, elongate, they are like elastic shape em any way you think to attract viewers. BTW I was joking. 

I too will miss this program, it's the only one I watch below channel 31 (A&E) cept for TVO.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

JPL, I was not joking. Any storyline that might keep the show on air another season or two is fine with me.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I wondered how they were going to write Leo out of the show. Now we know. The amazing thing is that I really don't know what the Supreme Court would rule if this was an actual situation and Santos wins. We shall see next week.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

tonight's epidsode was far too long and full of fluff and everyone getting laid
this 2 parter could have easily been 1 part
did we even see martin sheen tonight?

i was very disappointed

the ending did bring back some sadness re: john spencer's death

so sad to see a once great series reduced to network controlled pablum

oh, and did anyone notice how e-ring (west wing's wed. night replacement) died a quick death? thank god

should have kept west wing on wed. night
the one-two combo of west wing and law and order was a great lineup


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Macspectrum, I agree with your disappointment. There was too much emphasis upon couples "getting together" and not enough of what the actual president is doing/thinking.


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## jlcinc (Dec 13, 2002)

My wife thinks CJ will get the nod for VP.

John


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

This assumes that Santos shall be the winner. We shall see.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

unfortunately it's all rather moot, as the series is over on sunday
NBC did such a stupid thing moving the show to Sunday and NOT renewing the show
they can now claim declining numbers as their excuse, but tossing it to sunday and with the olympics has pooched the show

for some reason they were willing to keep seinfeld on for more years, but a great show like west wing falls by the wayside

it would have been very interesting to see the Alan Alda character win as he is most likeable and honest Republican I have seen in years

very sad


----------



## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

Now all of this is based on Santos winning and I have a funny feeling that we might see a Bush-Gore type battle. So I'm preparing myself to NOT learn the final results in next week's episode. Santos made a statement in the previews to next week's episode, "I am not choosing a new running mate in the next five minutes". This leads me to believe that the results will not be decided within an hour or so of Leo's death. If they were, and Santos was the winner, he would refer to selecting a new Vice-President elect, if he loses then there is no need to call for a new 'running' mate as he would no longer be running.

Earlier in this thread, I asked about whether Sam would make a qualified VP candidate. Now that we know that Leo's death occurred after the election, I'm back to wondering if that might be the answer. Especially after the Rob Lowe quotes on the previews where I believe he says "I'm here for the President". Ahhh but do we know which President he is there for???? Hmmm...

I'm also thinking of the season opener, and the previews about what looks to be the series finale which both have the same scene of the group meeting with President Bartlett to dedicate the Library or Archives or whatever is being dedicated. 

CJ is there with Danny and no reference is made to her being Madam Vice-President which Bartlett would without doubt use to speak with her. I realize that that was shot in advance of John Spencer's death, but unless they want to make a huge continuity mistake I don't think that she's the one. Kinda spooky that Leo's character wasn't in that shot.

I think it will be Sam.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I keep wondering if there won't be a WW spin-off with either a Vinnick or Santos character as president. We shall see.


----------



## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> unfortunately it's all rather moot, as the series is over on sunday
> NBC did such a stupid thing moving the show to Sunday and NOT renewing the show
> they can now claim declining numbers as their excuse, but tossing it to sunday and with the olympics has pooched the show
> 
> ...


No, the series is not over on Sunday. According to imdb.com, the series finale looks to be on May 14th. Next week's episode is titled "Requiem", April 23rd's is called "Transition" and the episodes for April 30th, May 7th and May 14th haven't been given titles yet.

That will give them 22 episodes which I believe is a full season.


----------



## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

Dr.G. said:


> Macspectrum, I agree with your disappointment. There was too much emphasis upon couples "getting together" and not enough of what the actual president is doing/thinking.


I disagree. I don't care what the actual President is doing/thinking, because I'm watching The West Wing. Remember that Martin Sheen was supposed to be a recurring guest character. 

I realize that this wasn't one of their best episodes, however I believe the intent was to show that once those polls open there isn't much that can be done. They simply have to wait and find something to keep themselves from going crazy. It brought back some of the humour of the earlier seasons that the characters would use to balance the type of work they were doing. Bartlett had his various trivia that he would offer to anyone who would listen, and some who wouldn't. CJ had 'The Jackal' and her fishbowl and Danny. Toby had is ball to throw against Sam's and then Will's wall. Sam and Ainsley. Sam and Mallory. Margaret's ways of annoying Leo. Josh had Amy for those sexual liaisons and banter and Donna for all of his other banter.

Josh Lyman: Victory is mine, victory is mine. Great day in the morning, victory is mine 
Donna Moss: Good morning, Josh. 
Josh Lyman: I drink from the keg of glory, Donna. Bring me the finest muffins and bagels in all the land 
Donna Moss: It's going to be an unbearable day 

To me, that has been one of the shows trademarks. The Ying and Yang. While there are serious and horrible things that they must deal with, they can blow off steam. 

Which made it a good episode, because while everyone was blowing off steam, the writers were setting us up for the tragedy of Leo's death.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Oakbridge, when I said the "actual president", I meant Pres. Bartlett, not Bush. I voted for Kerry in 2004, so I try to escape reality with thoughts of Pres. Bartlett.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

May 7th and May 14th are in the heart of "May sweeps", so there had to be shows on during this crucial period.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Watch the WW win all sorts of Emmy Awards in August after it was cancelled in May. We shall see.


----------



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Oakbridge said:


> No, the series is not over on Sunday. According to imdb.com, the series finale looks to be on May 14th. Next week's episode is titled "Requiem", April 23rd's is called "Transition" and the episodes for April 30th, May 7th and May 14th haven't been given titles yet.
> 
> That will give them 22 episodes which I believe is a full season.


I stand (or sit rather) corrected.


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## JPL (Jan 21, 2005)

I LOVE this show and I am gonig to miss it, even on Sunday. This is the best series ever on TV. OH woe is me!


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

The Canadian Learning Television channel (508 on StarChoice) has the new season starting last week. It is on from 830-930PM here in St.John's every M/T/W.

Check out the site at http://www.clt.ca/


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

I feel that the election arc that began last year re-energized the show. I had stopped watching it, because it had become preachy and artless (as opposed to the brilliance and wit of the dialogue earlier on). 

The best episodes since have been the ones dealing most directly with the election and even in an episode with a big Bartlett theme, the most compelling parts have been the candidates' stories - like a few weeks ago when they decided to send troops to Khazakistan, I felt the heart of the episode was the few minutes when Bartlett met with the candidates to tell them. It was a bucket of ice water, bringing home to them that reality and responsibility will limit their power and their dreams.

Anyway, it's not unknown for a network to change it's mind about a cancellation, or for another net to pick it up. Of course, it's much cheaper to show bimbos and bimbeaus doing dumb competitions on some exotic island, and it looks like more people watch that too.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"I had stopped watching it, because it had become preachy and artless (as opposed to the brilliance and wit of the dialogue earlier on)." nxnw, this coincides with the brining in of Republican script writers to go along with the writers who were Democrats.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

*The PMO*
you just gotta think it would be a great sitcom 

Harpo hiding in his bunker looking at his caller id to see who is calling before he picks up - none of those pesky reporters now, eh?

Harpo sitting at his desk like a school girl with a crush "willing" the phone to ring with a call from Bush

this could write itself


----------



## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

Dr.G. said:


> Oakbridge, when I said the "actual president", I meant Pres. Bartlett, not Bush. I voted for Kerry in 2004, so I try to escape reality with thoughts of Pres. Bartlett.


I knew that. What I was referring to is that the show is called "The West Wing" and it deals with the office surrounding the President. 

That's why I enjoyed last night's episode. Again not one of the very best but certainly a good one.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I shall hate to see this show go on Sunday nights. I have watched every show, and now, thanks to CLT, I have seen many of the shows of the last few seasons once again. As well, since last week, when they started the show from the start, I can rewatch every show once again.


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## jlcinc (Dec 13, 2002)

Wow a tear jerker so far.

John


----------



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

what now?
Santos asks Vinnick to be his VP?


----------



## jlcinc (Dec 13, 2002)

Exactly my thoughts. But what about CJ?

John


----------



## BRN (Nov 26, 2004)

What about Jed Bartlett?


----------



## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

I'm still going with Rob Lowe coming in as VP. He'll be "here for the President." Just not sure at this point which President will ask him.

However it looks like it will be at least a couple of weeks before we find out. 

IMDB has now posted episode titles for all of the remaining episodes:

Season 7, Episode 18: Requiem
16 April 2006
Season 7, Episode 19: Transition
23 April 2006
Season 7, Episode 20: The Last Hurrah
30 April 2006
Season 7, Episode 21: Institutional Memory
7 May 2006
Season 7, Episode 22: Tomorrow
14 May 2006

Only 5 left to go, it will be a said day on May 14th.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I think that this was one of the best shows on the WW. It gives hope for America on the show, as in reality, hope may be a term outlawed someday soon. We shall see.


----------



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

jlcinc said:


> Exactly my thoughts. But what about CJ?
> 
> John


CJ makes babies for the blue state cause
gotta keep them voter lists growing...


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

BRN said:


> What about Jed Bartlett?


having a republican vp for a democrat pres. is sheer science fiction
next thing santos will be clicking his ruby red slippers saying; "I want to go home. I want to go home..."


----------



## since84 (Jan 9, 2002)

I've been an avid, don't-call-me-during-the-show watcher of the The West Wing since its very first episode. Even through the "dark times" after Aaron Sorkin left and before the show found its footing again I spent every Wednesday with the people in the West Wing. So when John Spencer died in December, I was sad; when Leo died tonight, I was devastated. I knew it was coming, but it still hit hard.
The episode was beautifully done. The writing and the silences; the symmetry between the candidates and their inner circles; the camerawork and editing. And the acting -- it was impossible to see a line between actors playing characters and real people grieving for a close friend.
I sobbed through many of the scenes in this episode. I'm afraid that next week will really do me in.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I am in total agreement with since1984 (I did not sob, however). I shall, sadly, miss episodes 20 and 21 in that I shall be in Cuba on those two Sundays. I don't think that they "beam in" the WW into Cuba. Such is Life.


----------



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Dr.G. said:


> I am in total agreement with since1984 (I did not sob, however). I shall, sadly, miss episodes 20 and 21 in that I shall be in Cuba on those two Sundays. I don't think that they "beam in" the WW into Cuba. Such is Life.


I bet they prevent WW being "beamed" into the real White House.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

HowEver said:


> Even George Bush can figure out how to change the channel. Probably.
> 
> No, I see this administration more as a "know thy enemy" type. They probably studied the West Wing assiduously before gaining a second term.
> 
> As for the current storyline, that isn't any amount of assistance available anywhere that would make Bush remotely Vinick-like.


they're both white males, but after that.....

altho' i agree that bush can probaly change channels on his tv, i bet that NBC is blocked from his set since they don't carry NFL football
sorta like how dick cheney requires that his hotel room tv's only have FAUX news


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

HowEver, "know thy enemy" sounds more like something I read in Mao's "Little Red Book".


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Dr.G. said:


> HowEver, "know thy enemy" sounds more like something I read in Mao's "Little Red Book".


and I bet it's in Karl Rove's "little book" too


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

KR's book has "Crush your enemy" rather than "Know your enemy". In place of Mao's "The journey of a thousand miles begins with but a single step", KR has "Take it to your enemy and stick it to him".


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Did I hear correctly???? Vinnick for VP next week??? As well, did I understand correctly that the Santos-Bartlett "good cop/bad cop" routine is a planned attempt to diffuse the standoff between China and Russia?


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

I would hazard yes to both-flipping to the hockey don't you know


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I shall be missing the next two episodes of West Wing, unless they are beamed into Cuba, which I doubt. If these hints from the "coming next week" promo are correct, it should make for an interesting conclusion. We shall see.


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

set your vcr and stay out of this thread until you see the last episodes.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

ottawaman, a good idea.


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## Trose (Feb 17, 2005)

I really enjoyed that last episode. They managed to fit almost all the characters in. However I was disappointed that Toby never made an appearance. They must have cut his scene because I watched Ellen on Thursday (she had the whole cast of WW on) and Allison Janney mentioned that her last scene was with Richard Schiff.


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## JPL (Jan 21, 2005)

-( Well it's over! I think this hurt more than the loss of MASH. Thanks WW RIP


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I agree with JPL. The WW is up there, in my opinion, with MASH, All in the Family, St.Elsewhere, Hill Street Blues, et al.


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

Tidy ending, a lttle snoring.

Who endedup being V P ?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Baker, the Gov. of Pennsylvania.


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

Thanks Dr. G.


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

*cheap jerks*

So much for that 'West Wing' retrospective

NBC balks at cost of special; finale due Sunday

NEW YORK (AP) -- For the cast of NBC's exiting drama "The West Wing," nostalgia came at a price the network was unwilling to pay.

When NBC announced in January that it was canceling the political drama after seven seasons, it said the final episode in May would be accompanied by a retrospective on the series' history.

Instead, NBC is airing a repeat of "The West Wing" pilot on Sunday prior to the final episode, where the Democrat portrayed by Jimmy Smits is inaugurated as the next president.

NBC had no official comment on the switch of plans. However, the network couldn't reach an agreement with the show's cast on what -- or if -- they would be paid to gather one last time and reminisce about their experience, said a person close to the show who would speak about the negotiations only on condition of anonymity.

Showing the very first episode of "The West Wing" costs NBC nothing because the production was long-since paid for.

It's a sad ending for the show, which won four consecutive Emmy Awards as television's best drama. Its final season was marred by declining ratings and the death of actor John Spencer, who played vice presidential candidate Leo McGarry, although many critics considered it a strong season creatively.


http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/TV/05/10/tv.westwing.ap/index.html


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Ottawaman, I had not heard of this possibility. Sad that it never came to pass.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

like too many things in today's day and age - it's all about the money


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Michael, sadly, I would have to agree with your contention that money wins out over quality these days on TV.


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