# A question about movie torrents...



## iandesign (Jul 17, 2004)

So I've started downloading movie torrents recently and I think it's great, however, I'm starting to notice a few problems. I'm sure they're easily solved but I'm still new to this area. I can pretty much watch anything I've downloaded on the computer but I'd be much more comfortable in the living room. So, let's say I've got an AVI file and an MOV file or even a KVCD file. Is there any easy way to burn these or reformat them to a DVD that will play on my DVD player (living room). Along the same lines...I've ripped a few movies straight from DVD but they are too large (5-8gigs) for my burner (only 4.7gigs). By the way, I've got a G5 iMac with a superdrive (not dual-layer). I'va also most software that I'd probably need like Toast and Mac the Ripper etc.

Any help?


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

And thus, another pirate thread is sunk!!! Argh! XX)


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Any help? Yea, buy or rent the actual DVDs.

Sorry we just don't condone acts of piracy here.


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## mrt_mcfly (Oct 25, 2005)

iandesign said:


> Any help?


toast 7 will do what you are asking (compress & burn onto dvd). what you do with the program is not my concern; i retired from interpol years ago.


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## VVA88IT (Aug 21, 2005)

Not sure why anyone would download movies considering it's quite inexpensive to rent.

Heck, Rogers and Blockbuster will even mail you the DVDs. . . . of course two that I ordered came late and opened. Hmm, someone at Canada Post is watching my movies.


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## TornStar (Feb 13, 2006)

Hmm, good thing you don't live in Germany. 


http://tinyurl.com/qy5y3


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## seetobylive (Aug 4, 2004)

I have asked this before but never really got an answer so I will try again.

A while back there was a thread where everyone posted pictures of their docks, now everyone here will jump on some one for piracy but in almost every one of the docks I saw either acquisition or lime wire. So my question is; if no one on here downloads music, movies, software, serial numbers or even pictures you don't have the rights too what in the world does everyone on this board use a P2P app for. I think there are many members here that are quick to jump on the fry the pirate band wagon and in the recess' of their house are secretly downloading their favourite new kids album.

That being said, what about programs you love? Say T.V or old movies that you can't get in the stores yet or any more? One that comes to mind is the new English show "Extras", it is brilliant, just a wonderful funny and heart warming show. You can't watch it here, it is not available on DVD so what do you do? I'll admit I found a torrent and downloaded it.

Just some thoughts and a few questions but I look forward to hearing the answers.

kisses


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

iandesign said:


> So I've started downloading movie torrents recently and I think it's great, however, I'm starting to notice a few problems. I'm sure they're easily solved but I'm still new to this area. I can pretty much watch anything I've downloaded on the computer but I'd be much more comfortable in the living room. So, let's say I've got an AVI file and an MOV file or even a KVCD file. Is there any easy way to burn these or reformat them to a DVD that will play on my DVD player (living room). Along the same lines...I've ripped a few movies straight from DVD but they are too large (5-8gigs) for my burner (only 4.7gigs). By the way, I've got a G5 iMac with a superdrive (not dual-layer). I'va also most software that I'd probably need like Toast and Mac the Ripper etc.
> 
> Any help?


converting is a pain in the butt. you'd be better off just getting a video adapter for the imac and bringing it into the livingroom to plug into the tv. something always goes wrong when i try to convert xvids to dvd format.

you can get a dvd player that lets you play dvix/xvid/svcd or you could get a really really long s-video cable, or an external video player like this, http://www.factorydirect.ca/catalog/product_spec.php?pcode=TV3500


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## tedj (Sep 9, 2004)

seetobylive said:


> That being said, what about programs you love? Say T.V or old movies that you can't get in the stores yet or any more? One that comes to mind is the new English show "Extras", it is brilliant, just a wonderful funny and heart warming show. You can't watch it here, it is not available on DVD so what do you do? I'll admit I found a torrent and downloaded it.


 Brilliant? yes. Hilarious? check. Heartwarming?! haha. no.

That's a good show. I recently found another, Absolute Power, with Stephen Fry. BBC3 is doing some very good stuff these days. Saving comedy, even.


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## seetobylive (Aug 4, 2004)

kloan said:


> or an external video player like this, http://www.factorydirect.ca/catalog/product_spec.php?pcode=TV3500


the funny part is though that if you read through the specs at the verrrryyy bottom it says

PLEASE NOTE - HARD DRIVE IS NOT INCLUDED

Sounds to me that renting is a lot cheaper.


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## seetobylive (Aug 4, 2004)

tedj said:


> Heartwarming?! haha. no.


??? What? Every time he foregoes getting a line for the sake of his friends, or his own moral compass and his concern for those that are dear to him? I tear up just thinking about it.

By the way how do you include multiple quotes int eh same post??


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## tedj (Sep 9, 2004)

Or how about pretending to believe in God just to get a date with the handicapped girl's sister, only to find out the date is at a prayer meeting, he's already dressed in the Travolta suit and has to renounce God in front of this girl with some condition so bad her only hope is heaven OR when Kate Winslet is caught holding her breast and gives advice on phone sex. OR when Patrick Stewart describes his new movie: he'll have x-ray vision, and the power to disrobe women by thought, "just like in my movie X-Men, except in real life... and she'll just be standing there...you know, completely naked. Completely." OR Ben Stiller wanting to make a profitable movie off of the Kosovo war.

It's so un-heartwarming, its funny.

Oh, for some clips:

http://www.rickygervais.com/extras_clips_06_02.php


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

seetobylive said:


> So my question is; if no one on here downloads music, movies, software, serial numbers or even pictures you don't have the rights too what in the world does everyone on this board use a P2P app for. I think there are many members here that are quick to jump on the fry the pirate band wagon and in the recess' of their house are secretly downloading their favourite new kids album.


This may very well be true, BUT, we won't be talkin' about _how_ to do it on ehMac (lest you feel the wrath of ehMax). Please respect this forum. ehMac is the community it is, for better or worse, because of certain boundaries which we all must abide by and of course, by the lively partcipation of all it's members. Post now, post often. :clap:


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## tedj (Sep 9, 2004)

Just found it a sample of it!! You guys have to listen to this:

http://picardpervert.ytmnd.com/


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## seetobylive (Aug 4, 2004)

tedj said:


> Or how about pretending to believe in God just to get a date with the handicapped girl's sister, only to find out the date is at a prayer meeting, he's already dressed in the Travolta suit and has to renounce God in front of this girl with some condition so bad her only hope is heaven OR when Kate Winslet is caught holding her breast and gives advice on phone sex. OR when Patrick Stewart describes his new movie: he'll have x-ray vision, and the power to disrobe women by thought, "just like in my movie X-Men, except in real life... and she'll just be standing there...you know, completely naked. Completely." OR Ben Stiller wanting to make a profitable movie off of the Kosovo war.


Well i didn't say it was ALL heart warming...


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## mikeinmontreal (Oct 13, 2005)

Hear, Hear, Seetobylive! How many threads have I seen where people discuss how to burn their own, store-bought dvds, using MTR, Handbrake, which are free, and a few other programs that you have to pay for. which they all happen to have.


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

mikeinmontreal said:


> Hear, Hear, Seetobylive! How many threads have I seen where people discuss how to burn their own, store-bought dvds, using MTR, Handbrake, which are free, and a few other programs that you have to pay for.


_That_ is the distinction, right? Discussions about backing up your own _legally purchased_ media is okay. Discussions about making copies of pirated media is _not_ okay. Is that easier to understand?


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## mrt_mcfly (Oct 25, 2005)

to me, this is very much a grey area...for example, how do you see shows like 'extras', when it is not shown in canada, nor available for rent? at the same time, the 2 icons listed in this thread include images of Homer Simpson and Capt. Kirk....does this not violate copyright laws?


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## dwp (Aug 12, 2003)

tedj said:


> Just found it a sample of it!! You guys have to listen to this:
> 
> http://picardpervert.ytmnd.com/



This is very funny! Loved The Office (British Version). Can't wait to see Extras on DVD. Got to love British comedy and their drama ain't half bad either (Cracker).


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## RISCHead (Jul 20, 2004)

Indeed there are many grey areas here. However, in general you can be more efficient if you simply play the game by the rules that exist than try to change the world.

i.e. Torrent as a technology is not your issue. Conversion from a computing platform format (AVI/DivX etc.) to a media format (DVD) is your question.

Pose the question so that you get the answer you want without the thread being hijacked, locked or sidetracked into discussions you didnt intend.


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## dwp (Aug 12, 2003)

Theft is theft is theft. Doesn't matter if it's a banana at No Frills, the guy's ipod locked in the car or a movie off bit torrent. Rent the movie and support the arts.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

Very good explanation RISCHead. 

As he said... you have to phase in such a way that the piracy question doesn't come up and people won't get in a huff.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

I'm going to have to stop taping Leno or Letterman and burn my VCR.

Oh, wait, I live in Canada, where *none* of this is against any sort of law, so long as it's for personal use.

A dual layer burner will make DVDs that are greater than 4.7 GB in size. They have come down in price greatly recently; put the LG 4163B in an external 5.25" enclosure, it's easy enough.

The Phillips 642 DVP/DivX player will play any of these discs/files no matter how you burn them. It goes on sale once in a while for $50 to $70 CAD.


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## iandesign (Jul 17, 2004)

*What a firestorm....*

Wow! Just wanted to ask what I thought would be a simple question and most likely an even simpler answer. I'm just finally now getting back on here to see if anyone has helped me out. To those of you who are upset, sorry, didn't realize that you took it so personally. To those of you who helped, or at least defended me... thanks. I too find a lot of hypocricy in some of these statements. Oh well, most of you were still quite polite even when showing me my bad...great site still.


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## Chealion (Jan 16, 2001)

Finding out how to use what you purchased in other ways legally (subverting the DRM is illegal in the US due the DMCA - which doesn't apply in Canada - yet) is just fine.

Piracy is a problem that will never go away, and is illegal - thus isn't kosher on ehMac.

Please don't steal. It's just plain theft whether it seems so or not.


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## draz (Jun 13, 2005)

Uuhhmm there are totally legal, honest torrents to download...not all torrents are priated Family guy episodes...


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## mrt_mcfly (Oct 25, 2005)

draz said:


> Uuhhmm there are totally legal, honest torrents to download...not all torrents are priated Family guy episodes...


giggidy giggidy!


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## VNJ85 (Feb 24, 2006)

This is getting to be too much these snipes about whether users are downloading stuff that's legal or not.

These snipes are not acceptable. How internet service is being used is between the user and their ISP's and between the user and the holder of the copyright - NOT between any of us and the user.

If you have a complaint about internet service being used illegally, then your complaint should be directed at that users ISP, not at other users on Ehmac. Just remember that in making your complaint, that it is currently NOT illegal to download music in Canada. It may or may not be illegal to download movies - that's for the courts to decide. The laws re uploading are different too and will depend on many factors. Remember the DMCA under which the US RIAA and MPAA are trying to prosecute people are AMERICAN laws which are not directly applicable in Canada.

If you have complaints about the service being misused to the detriment of your service, then the complaint again should be made to your ISP's.

Judging people in this forum is not acceptable.

Edit: and on that note this user does not condon piracy, but regardless i will never comment on someone asking help on how to burn files they obtained from the internet. just simply answer the mans question and move on. i find it gross how many people comment in someones thread when they ask questions regarding how to do things on computer. I thought this forum was supposed to be helpful.. commenting on people is never helpful, unless making positive comments. plz retain negative feedback to yourself... if u dont have anything good to say, dont say it at all.


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## mrt_mcfly (Oct 25, 2005)

giggidy giggidy goo.


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

iandesign said:


> So I've started downloading movie torrents recently and I think it's great, however, I'm starting to notice a few problems.


Yes, it is great, and yes, you will have problems because it is illegal.



> I'm sure they're easily solved but I'm still new to this area.


Ok. Step number 1. Don't cheap out on any solutions. It's one thing to avoid buying movies or renting movies, but some of these solutions cost money.



> I can pretty much watch anything I've downloaded on the computer but I'd be much more comfortable in the living room.


Get an Elgato EyeHome. This is your easiest solution.
http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyehome - $250



> So, let's say I've got an AVI file and an MOV file or even a KVCD file. Is there any easy way to burn these or reformat them to a DVD that will play on my DVD player (living room).


Yes. Toast 7. $100.



> Along the same lines...I've ripped a few movies straight from DVD but they are too large (5-8gigs) for my burner (only 4.7gigs).


Toast 7 again.



> By the way, I've got a G5 iMac with a superdrive (not dual-layer). I'va also most software that I'd probably need like Toast and Mac the Ripper etc.


So you know what you need. Now go get it.



> Any help?


No


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## phobic (May 18, 2005)

Why have so many people taken this as an opportunity to get on their high horse?

He didn't mention what movies he's downloaded, I assume if he's posting here they are independent or copyright-free.


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## mikeinmontreal (Oct 13, 2005)

Because some people just have too much time on their hands and want to show other people how smart or witty they are.


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## iandesign (Jul 17, 2004)

*let it go...*

some people out here are taking this a little too seriously. GuyToronto, I'm talking to you. I posted a few questions and a bunch of people warned me that this was not the place to discuss that kind of info. Fair enough. I apologized and that should have been the end of it. You might find it really annoying to see threads about downloading, but you could always just ignore them. I happen to use this site for a lot of other things too...how to upgrade my machine...trying to sell old equipment...buy newer stuff...and read news and rumours. I've even introduced a lot of my co-workers to this site that they all also find very useful and entertaining. You know what I find really annoying? People that read a headline and then post useless responses without reading through any of the others first. I guess that's how you become "Honourable" though, eh? Interesting.


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## mrt_mcfly (Oct 25, 2005)

#4.



mrt_mcfly said:


> toast 7 will do what you are asking (compress & burn onto dvd). what you do with the program is not my concern; i retired from interpol years ago.


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## Tiranis (Jun 19, 2005)

Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

From this thread I get the feeling that if it was legal to steal, most of you would be employed as thieves.


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## VNJ85 (Feb 24, 2006)

Tiranis, that is an offensive comment.


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## djstp (Mar 10, 2006)

iandesign said:


> some people out here are taking this a little too seriously. GuyToronto, I'm talking to you. I posted a few questions and a bunch of people warned me that this was not the place to discuss that kind of info. Fair enough. I apologized and that should have been the end of it. You might find it really annoying to see threads about downloading, but you could always just ignore them. I happen to use this site for a lot of other things too...how to upgrade my machine...trying to sell old equipment...buy newer stuff...and read news and rumours. I've even introduced a lot of my co-workers to this site that they all also find very useful and entertaining. You know what I find really annoying? People that read a headline and then post useless responses without reading through any of the others first. I guess that's how you become "Honourable" though, eh? Interesting.



:clap:

well said mate!


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## mrt_mcfly (Oct 25, 2005)

if piracy was legal, you'd all be pirates.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Pirating is shallow and pedantic. (Family guy reference)  

Its a fine line. ehMac has a firm policy of not allowing conversation on how to accomplish a task that would violate any law. 

Here's an example from the past. I have allowed discussion about running Frontrow on a pre-Intel Mac mini. I haven't allowed discussion on how to obtain Frontrow for your Mac mini. 

In this thread... its a little borderline, but permissible. You can download movie torrents that are not copyright protected. Just as with Toast, you can burn movies or photos that are copyright protected. Heck, with your iPod you can load songs that have been illegally required. 

Just know this - ehMac.ca is strongly, STRONGLY against pirating of any kind. If you do use the methods discussed on ehMac to pirate, may heaps of bad karma head in your direction.


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## thatcomputerguy (Jan 13, 2005)

wow, i wouldn't have expected such a dogfight over a simple question. maybe i am making an assumption here, but when i read the original post i did not immediately assume we were talking about anything illegal.

i regularly use my dvd recorder to record tv shows to watch later, or over again if they are good. if for some reason i miss a show, i have on a number of occasions downloaded the tv show using a p2p program and then used toast to convert the divx file to dvd format to burn onto a blank dvd and watch on my tv in the comfort of my living room. i'm not a lawyer, but i don't see how doing the downloading and converting is illegal if i can get the same result by simply remembering to set the dvd recorder. if it is illegal how is it any different than using a PVR?

just my 2 cents.


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

iandesign said:


> GuyToronto, I'm talking to you. You might find it really annoying to see threads about downloading, but you could always just ignore them.


At what point did I say anything about being annoyed?


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

thatcomputerguy said:


> wow, i wouldn't have expected such a dogfight over a simple question. maybe i am making an assumption here, but when i read the original post i did not immediately assume we were talking about anything illegal.
> 
> i regularly use my dvd recorder to record tv shows to watch later, or over again if they are good. if for some reason i miss a show, i have on a number of occasions downloaded the tv show using a p2p program and then used toast to convert the divx file to dvd format to burn onto a blank dvd and watch on my tv in the comfort of my living room. i'm not a lawyer, but i don't see how doing the downloading and converting is illegal if i can get the same result by simply remembering to set the dvd recorder. if it is illegal how is it any different than using a PVR?
> 
> just my 2 cents.


my point exactly. but i dont bother posting it anymore. some people are just stuck in their beliefs. stealing this, and criminal that.. blah blah blah.


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## VNJ85 (Feb 24, 2006)

*For all you stuck up anti-pirating bozo's.... i'm gonna tell how to be a pirate!*

Yaaar! 
wh'o says 'yew can't explain ow to pirate on dem forums!

Me be a Pirate, 

if'n yous wantin to be a pirate, 

Strap on d'em BillyBoot's, perch Polly on da Shoulder, grab a sword, an'offer ya goes!

Doont fergot to drink a nice gulp o'ale in da mornin! make that breath of yours nice'n vile. 

YAR!!!

Off you goes to pillage and plunder the internet!


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

i think im gonna go steal a banana now.. dominion's open 24 hrs.. woohoo!!


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## draz (Jun 13, 2005)

Hey stealing wifi is a crime...


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## seetobylive (Aug 4, 2004)

draz said:


> Hey stealing wifi is a crime...


Hey look who just opened a can of worms!!


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

thatcomputerguy said:


> i regularly use my dvd recorder to record tv shows to watch later, or over again if they are good. if for some reason i miss a show, i have on a number of occasions downloaded the tv show using a p2p program and then used toast to convert the divx file to dvd format to burn onto a blank dvd and watch on my tv in the comfort of my living room. i'm not a lawyer, but i don't see how doing the downloading and converting is illegal if i can get the same result by simply remembering to set the dvd recorder. if it is illegal how is it any different than using a PVR?


Copyright laws give certain rights to the copyright holders. With television, there is nothing explicitly laid out that states that it is illegal to make personal recordings of a television broadcast. It does state that you can't show any recording publicly, but nothing is said about private viewing. Using your PVR or VCR for personal home use if fine.

With movies, it falls under different copyright laws. If Star Wars is broadcast on TV, and you record it, that's ok. If you take the Star Wars DVD, and rip it, that is illegal (as copyright law protects the DVD from duplication). Downloading a movie or TV show is illegal because you have no rights to that recording.


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## thatcomputerguy (Jan 13, 2005)

guytoronto said:


> Copyright laws give certain rights to the copyright holders. With television, there is nothing explicitly laid out that states that it is illegal to make personal recordings of a television broadcast. It does state that you can't show any recording publicly, but nothing is said about private viewing. Using your PVR or VCR for personal home use if fine.
> 
> With movies, it falls under different copyright laws. If Star Wars is broadcast on TV, and you record it, that's ok. If you take the Star Wars DVD, and rip it, that is illegal (as copyright law protects the DVD from duplication). Downloading a movie or TV show is illegal because you have no rights to that recording.


but again we are making assumptions here that the movie in question is copyrighted. it may be a made for tv movie or a public domain movie, we don't know so we shouldn't judge.


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## Klaatu (Jun 3, 2003)

tedj said:


> Just found it a sample of it!! You guys have to listen to this:
> 
> http://picardpervert.ytmnd.com/


You can see it here: http://accordionguy.blogware.com/_attachments/1199836/Patrick Stewart - Extras.wmv


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## dwp (Aug 12, 2003)

guytoronto said:


> Copyright laws give certain rights to the copyright holders. With television, there is nothing explicitly laid out that states that it is illegal to make personal recordings of a television broadcast. It does state that you can't show any recording publicly, but nothing is said about private viewing. Using your PVR or VCR for personal home use if fine.
> 
> With movies, it falls under different copyright laws. If Star Wars is broadcast on TV, and you record it, that's ok. If you take the Star Wars DVD, and rip it, that is illegal (as copyright law protects the DVD from duplication). Downloading a movie or TV show is illegal because you have no rights to that recording.


Thank-you guytoronto for spelling it out clearly. :clap:


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## mycatsnameis (Mar 3, 2000)

If I could gingerly step in here and try to address the original question without stepping on any of the attendant land mines, IMHO if one had the option of downloading a (legal) video file that was pre-packed for DVD-R vs an avi or divx or xvid etc. I would definitely favour taking the DVD-R. 

Yes it takes longer b/c there is a larger file to pull down but it is more than worth that for the improvement in quality and absence of trouble wrt converting disparate codecs into a DVD compatible format (with all the issues of video quality, aspect ratio, codec finding/installation etc. that this process entails). 

Just my $0.02.

Now back to your regularly scheduled debate: "When is a gray area not a gray area?".


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## thegreenapple (Jan 3, 2006)

Just have to ask if this 
http://decisions.fca-caf.gc.ca/fca/2005/2005fca193.shtml
is what was said about music file sharing 

What has been said about movies??
Now i dont state that it is right but that link makes me wonder??
why we jump on ppl how do download


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

thatcomputerguy said:


> but again we are making assumptions here that the movie in question is copyrighted. it may be a made for tv movie or a public domain movie, we don't know so we shouldn't judge.


Made For TV movies are still protected by copyright. Ripping from the DVD from Blockbuster would still be breaking copyright law.

You are correct about public domain movies. Because of the complexity of it all, it's hard to tell when a movie will become public domain. It's A Wonderful Life is in the public domain, so if you rent it from Blockbuster, you're throwing your money away because you can legally download it.


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## thatcomputerguy (Jan 13, 2005)

this is a little off-topic maybe, but along the same lines. i downloaded a bunch of the old FLASH GORDON episodes from a public domain site and burned them to dvd for my dad (he remembers watching them at the cinemas when he was a kid). is that illegal?


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

Totally legal. If it is in the public domain, you can do whatever you want with it.


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## thatcomputerguy (Jan 13, 2005)

guytoronto said:


> Totally legal. If it is in the public domain, you can do whatever you want with it.


good to know, thanks. i'd hate to think i gave me da something illegal.


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## Klaatu (Jun 3, 2003)

guytoronto said:


> Made For TV movies are still protected by copyright. Ripping from the DVD from Blockbuster would still be breaking copyright law.
> 
> You are correct about public domain movies. Because of the complexity of it all, it's hard to tell when a movie will become public domain. It's A Wonderful Life is in the public domain, so if you rent it from Blockbuster, you're throwing your money away because you can legally download it.


It's a Wonderful Life is currently a Paramount title... the tricky thing is copyright is often owned by different countries in different territories, and not all countries recognize public domain. Canada, for example, has very strict stipulations. However, Canada has also does little to enforce it. For example, a movie such as Night of the Living Dead is public domain in the U.S., but according to the intellectual property laws in Canada, it's not. Yet many companies distribute and sell copies of the movie here, thus reinforcing the perception that it's "public domain."

As for all this talk about "piracy is illegal." You guys have been watching too much propaganda. If you steal a car, you get arrested by the cops. If you upload something to the internet, and leave evidence that can track your identity, some legal eagle at a corporation might send you a letter. That's all. The question is, are you rich enough to fight a major corporation in court?


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## Tiranis (Jun 19, 2005)

Klaatu said:


> As for all this talk about "piracy is illegal." You guys have been watching too much propaganda. If you steal a car, you get arrested by the cops. If you upload something to the internet, and leave evidence that can track your identity, some legal eagle at a corporation might send you a letter. That's all. The question is, are you rich enough to fight a major corporation in court?


So basically, what you're saying is, if you stole a car and police did nothing and you got a letter from the owner, then you would be stealing cars right now?

This isn't a matter of something being legal or illegal, this is a moral question. Just because something is legal, that doesn't make it the right thing to do. If any of you actually worked on the content that is being downloaded of the internet, you would be signing a completely different tune. Just like I am, because I'm directly affected by it.


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## Klaatu (Jun 3, 2003)

Tiranis said:


> So basically, what you're saying is, if you stole a car and police did nothing and you got a letter from the owner, then you would be stealing cars right now?


Notice I didn't say that ;-)



Tiranis said:


> This isn't a matter of something being legal or illegal, this is a moral question.


Exactly. 



Tiranis said:


> Just because something is legal, that doesn't make it the right thing to do. If any of you actually worked on the content that is being downloaded of the internet, you would be signing a completely different tune. Just like I am, because I'm directly affected by it.


The problem is that the old business model simply doesn't work in this new age. The main problem that exists is that major corporations have built their empires by an easily controlled distribution network. But the internet has busted their dams, and they're still trying to figure out how to adjust to it.


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## seetobylive (Aug 4, 2004)

Tiranis said:


> This isn't a matter of something being legal or illegal, this is a moral question.


Now why did you have to go there? I have heard that word "moral" being used around here quite a bit and I am beginning to feel like this is the catholic church trying to tell me what is wrong, and what isn't! 

I agree with the idea that only legal concepts and ideas be shared here... but notice I said LEGAL, not moral. "Perhaps" (as an example) you don't believe in Gay Marriage, it is legal now, but 2 years ago could we have talked about it here with out hurting a moral? If someone posted a thread here explaining how one can get married illegally would it have been pulled? How far will YOUR moral compass go into dictating what is aceptable on this forum.

Let's all agree to keep this legal here, and as for morals please feel free to keep them in you bed room!

kisses.


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## thatcomputerguy (Jan 13, 2005)

seetobylive said:


> Now why did you have to go there? I have heard that word "moral" being used around here quite a bit and I am beginning to feel like this is the catholic church trying to tell me what is wrong, and what isn't!
> 
> I agree with the idea that only legal concepts and ideas be shared here... but notice I said LEGAL, not moral. "Perhaps" (as an example) you don't believe in Gay Marriage, it is legal now, but 2 years ago could we have talked about it here with out hurting a moral? If someone posted a thread here explaining how one can get married illegally would it have been pulled? How far will YOUR moral compass go into dictating what is aceptable on this forum.
> 
> ...


well said. i agree fully. morals are a separate issue that i don't think we should be getting into here. the discussion about the legal issues is one i'm intertested in but don't start telling me how i should "feel" about something.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Hi there... this is my unlawfully wedded husband.  :lmao: 

The policy on ehMac.ca is pretty clear. No "How-to's on any unlawful activity. If there ever is a way to get unlawfully married... I might make an exception.  

Call it morals, karma, being a good citizen whatever.... I do get sick of people who think they are owed something for nothing. 

I won't tell you how to feel. I will tell you how I feel. I have a growing purchased iTunes Music collection, that I have nicely organized. I do know that I take pride in my collection. Or maybe pride isn't the right word... I know that I cherish my music collection 10x more than if I would of just downloaded it. 

My DVD collection is really small (As I'm waiting to start building it after the Blueray / HD war dust settles down) But that is something I'm looking forward to building as a personal collection as well. I think there is something to be said about the value one perceives of something if they just got it for free / taking it vs having to work / paying for it.


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## Elric (Jul 30, 2005)

I use iSquint and Handbrake (And Handbrake Lite) between those I haven't needed anything else. And I ONLY download things I cannot buy (ie. tonights Smallville Episode)


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## thatcomputerguy (Jan 13, 2005)

Elric said:


> I use iSquint and Handbrake (And Handbrake Lite) between those I haven't needed anything else. And I ONLY download things I cannot buy (ie. tonights Smallville Episode)


it's out there already? or are you saying you are going to get it? great show. my wife and i watch them and then i dnld them as well and we'll watch them in the summer on our schedule. pre-edited - no commercials, brilliant.


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

Re: It's A Wonderful Life

It turns out it's a more complicated issue. Read more here
http://www.film-center.com/canishow.html

Copyrights are really tricky things.


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## Elric (Jul 30, 2005)

thatcomputerguy said:


> it's out there already? or are you saying you are going to get it? great show. my wife and i watch them and then i dnld them as well and we'll watch them in the summer on our schedule. pre-edited - no commercials, brilliant.


If it's a new episode it'susually on Limewire a good day or two before it airs (in Canada).


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## mrt_mcfly (Oct 25, 2005)

Elric,
so you don't have tonight's episode yet...right?


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## Jestered (Aug 18, 2005)

The "moral" thing is hilarious to me. I am amazed at how many people we have that are morally unblemished on this board. Would these same people be so morally perfect if they were on another board about religion or sexual preference or raceism or...?

As far as I see it, it is not for me (or anyone else) to judge anyones moral fiber. The rules of the board are clear and there should be no questions about how to obtain illegal movies or music or whatever, but to attack someones moral being is ridiculous, unless of course you are God or Jesus, which I am assuming no one here is either of those two. If you are you should use a better avatar so we know who you are. 

Bringing up the moral issue is ridiculous. There is no one on this earth that is anywhere near being morally perfect and for someone to act as if they are is just pathetic. Work on your own issues instead of judging others.

I cast no stones.... I am not perfect.... but I do try to better myself everyday.


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## thatcomputerguy (Jan 13, 2005)

Jestered said:


> .., unless of course you are God or Jesus, which I am assuming no one here is either of those two. If you are you should use a better avatar so we know who you are.


 LMAO! - oops, i laughed out loud and attracted attention to myself in the office.:clap:


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## Elric (Jul 30, 2005)

Jestered said:


> unless of course you are God or Jesus, which I am assuming no one here is either of those two. If you are you should use a better avatar so we know who you are.


So what kind of Avatar SHOULD I have? I am fancy to this one... 
And when you assume....


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## mikeinmontreal (Oct 13, 2005)

Speaking of Avatars, I hope everyone's was legally obtained.


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## Klaatu (Jun 3, 2003)

guytoronto said:


> Re: It's A Wonderful Life
> 
> It turns out it's a more complicated issue. Read more here
> http://www.film-center.com/canishow.html
> ...


You're right. Copyrights are VERY tricky things. But don't trust this article even though it comes from "the law firm of Probstein & Weiner, an entertainment law firm based in New York City and Los Angeles." I didn't bother to read the whole thing because it has many glaring ommissions, such as distinguishing between theatrical, non-theatrical, video and broadcast rights, as well as how those rights change within different territories. This is why the internet screws up things. Most forms of distribution can be controlled. The internet can't. For example, what happens if you download the movie TITANIC. If you're in Canada I suppose it would be Paramount, as they have North American rights. But what if you download a PAL version from the UK (distributed by Twentith Century Fox)? And we're not even talking about the possibility of using that downloaded copy and selling it. 

Yet, if you go to a club in Toronto you'll often see them projecting videos on a wall. Whole movies (e.g. The Drake). There are also festival screenings where they charge admission to watch a dvd projection of a particular film. In many cases I know who the proper rights holders are. And in EVERY case when I discover such a screening, I contact them to make them aware of it. You see, to show a film in this manner you need "public exhibition" rights and they're typically about $300 per film, or you can buy a year-round license that covers a variety of studios and distributors. And if you charge admission, they are entitled to a percentage of the box office. So you know what happens? Absolutely nothing. The rights holder can't be bothered to send a cease & desist letter, and the practice continues.

But it seems it's not a bad thing because what these establishments tend to project is not Star Wars or Raiders of the Lost Ark, but some obscure independent film that most people never heard of, and just having the film seen if often better than collecting a license fee, for it breeds awareness. It's cheap marketing.

If you look in a video store nowadays you'll see a weath of foreign and independent films that haven't been available... ever, in some instances. And I don't think you need to know how the indie guys feel about this on the music side. Who do you think really suffers? 

Remember, the people who squawk the loudest about this issue has always been the major corporations. The indies largely don't because the benefits far outweight the losses. And judging from their quarterly earnings, the corporations still seem to be surviving just nicely. But now they're fretting about VOD, SVOD, ring tones, video ipods, mobile phones... they want to control it all, but they haven't figured out to secure these monopolies.


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## mycatsnameis (Mar 3, 2000)

mikeinmontreal said:


> Speaking of Avatars, I hope everyone's was legally obtained.


LOL, none of that google searching a cut and pasting like, erm, I did for mine (I'm sure that the Bloom County Copyright Association will be waiting on my doorstep to give me a stern talking to when I get home tonight and confiscate my clever computer - if they can catch it - phphphtttt!!).


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Here is an old but interesting take on the redistribution of available channels, whether obtained by satellite, or over the air, and sharing internet, etc...

=================

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20040930.html

September 30, 2004

One Canadian's Wireless Neighborhood Network Could Someday Serve Us All

By Robert X. Cringely

Like many of us, Andrew Greig put a WiFi access point in his house so he could share his broadband Internet connection. But like hardly any of us, Andrew uses his WiFi network for Internet, television, and telephone. He cancelled his telephone line and cable TV service. Then his neighbors dropped-by, saw what Andrew had done, and they cancelled their telephone and cable TV services, too, many of them without having a wired broadband connection of their own. They get their service from Andrew, who added an inline amplifier and put a better antenna in his attic. Now most of Andrew's neighborhood is watching digital TV with full PVR capability, making unmetered VoIP telephone calls, and downloading data at prodigious rates thanks to shared bandwidth. Is this the future of home communications and entertainment? It could be, five years from now, if Andrew Greig has anything to say about it.

The advantage Andrew Greig has over most of the rest of us is that he works for Starnix, an international Open Source software and services consultancy in Toronto, Canada. Starnix, which deals with huge corporate clients, has the brain power to get running what I described above. And it goes much further than that simple introduction.

Somewhere in Andrew's house is a hefty Linux server running many applications, including an Asterisk Open Source VoIP software PBX. There is no desktop PC in Andrew's house. Instead, he runs a Linux thin client on a Sharp Zaurus SL-6000 Linux PDA. Sitting in its cradle on Andrew's desk at home, the Zaurus (running a special copy of Debian Linux, NOT as shipped by Sharp) connects to a full-size keyboard and VGA display, and runs applications on the server. Another cradle, monitor and keyboard are at Andrew's office, where he also doesn't have a PC. Walking around in his house, the Zaurus (equipped with a tri-mode communications card) is a WiFi VoIP phone running through the Asterisk PBX and connecting to the Vonage VoIP network. Walking out of his house, the Zaurus automatically converts to the local mobile phone carrier, though with a data connection that still runs back through Vonage. At Starbucks, it's a Wifi Vonage phone. At Andrew's office, it is a WiFi extension to the office Asterisk PBX AND to Andrew's home PBX. That's one PDA doing the job of two desktop PCs, a notebook PC, and three telephones.

Yeah, but what about that wireless TV? How does that work? Andrew's server runs Myth TV, an Open Source digital video recorder application, storing on disk in MPEG-4 format (1.5-2 megabits-per-second) more than 30,000 TV episodes, movies and MP3 music files. "As each new user comes online, I add another TV card to the system so they can watch live TV," says Andrew, "but since there are only so many episodes of SpongeBob SquarePants, nearly everything that isn't news or sports is typically served from disk with full ability to jump forward or back at will. We've reached the point now where the PVR has so much in storage already that it is set to simply record anything that isn't already on disk."

Think about it. These folks up in Canada can not only watch everything we can watch on TV, on a whim they can watch every episode of the original Star Trek in the order they were broadcast ALL ON ONE WEEKEND. I wouldn't do that, true, but I also CAN'T do that.

At this point, intellectual property lawyers are supposed to start reaching for their telephones to call Canada, but it won't do any good because all this content is perfectly legal and here's how. With the exception of local channels, which come from an antenna, all of Andrew's video content comes from a C-band (big dish) satellite receiver (receivers, actually), and is fully paid for. "I buy the channels just like a cable system does or a motel that wants to offer HBO, from the National Programming Service," says Andrew. "And as a result I pay wholesale prices. People don't realize how much of a markup there in is the cable business. The Discovery Networks, for example, cost me $0.26 per customer per month. The IP laws in both the U.S. and Canada say that if I have legal access to this content I can store and use it. And the over-the-air channels, of course, are free."

Remember how in the go-go Internet days of three to four years ago, we used to talk about "disintermediation?" That was using technology to remove middle men from transactions. Well, what Andrew Greig is doing is dis-intermediating both the telephone and TV cable companies. And he'd like to dis-intermediate the Internet Service Providers, too.

Starnix is getting ready to take its technology on the road, so to speak, selling and licensing it to all comers. One plan is to create a wireless ISP offering these services, growing it around what Andrew calls "wireless sweet spots." The difference between a "hotspot" and a "sweet spot" is that a sweet spot is both hot AND cheap. "We were installing a wireless network in a large hospital and showed them that there were economies of scale to be gained from lighting four of the fiber pairs coming-in from their ISP, rather than two. Their costs go down and we benefit from that lower pricing and pick up the additional bandwidth for wireless service outside the hospital." Since Starnix installs wireless networks all over (other Starnix sites include the Time-Warner intergalactic HQ in New York), this is a provisioning model that could be used over and over.

Unlike most other wireless networks, Starnix uses 802.11a, which matches the 54 megabits-per-second speed of 802.11g, but does so in the five GHz band where there is less interference. Even more important, while 802.11g (and -b) have a maximum of only three non-conflicting channels, 802.11a in North America supports 24 non-conflicting channels for at least eight times the total bandwidth.

This would all be just an interesting and very nerdly proof of concept except that Starnix has a global reputation (one of their wireless network customers is the Royal Canadian Mounted Police -- Canada's more colorful version of the FBI), and the Canadian Government is putting some money into helping establish the wireless ISP.

But there is an industrial or commercial side to this, too. Right now, OEMs are lining-up to bring this Starnix model of hardware, software, and connectivity to the workplace. "It's the six percent solution," says Greig. "Businesses don't want to admit this, but they spend up to 12 percent of gross revenues on IT including communications. By going to Open Source and thin clients and VoIP we could cover all their needs for half that cost -- six percent. No separate hardware, software, bandwidth, or support costs, just a flat six percent. We have large partners right now who are getting ready to take this proposition to market."

What's happening in Andrew Greig's neighborhood is going to happen in three to five years in many neighborhoods. The look will be slightly different with technologies like WiMax wireless networking playing a role. Moore's Law, too, is going to have a significant impact on bringing down the cost of implementing this dream. That Starnix thin client needed to drive your TV costs $250 in volume today but three years from now it will cost $70. Or maybe the thin client will be in the TV, itself. With Linux proliferating in consumer devices that's almost a sure thing since even if Sony doesn't do it some firmware hacker will.

That's the big lesson here, not that some guys up in Canada can run their own Star Trek marathon, but that Open Source software is leading to digital devices being used in large volumes in ways their designers never envisioned. This takes control of the network out of the hands of the providers and into the hands of the users. And the outcome doesn't have to be some socialistic information economy. On the contrary, it means that whole new business models will appear to take advantage of the fact that all types of communications and all types of content will be able to reach all parts of the market with almost no friction. Following that line of thought, even I might find a way to make a living.

Maybe.


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