# Email Money Transfer? Need Advice



## Repeater04 (Nov 29, 2004)

What would be the benefit of a seller wanting to do a email money transfer
(besides quicker), as compared to a postal money order?
A friend of mine is negotiating to buy a laptop, and the seller seems to be steering him into using a email money tranfer. Should he be cautious?

Thanks to all that reply


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## Gerbill (Jul 1, 2003)

Repeater04 said:


> What would be the benefit of a seller wanting to do a email money transfer
> (besides quicker), as compared to a postal money order?
> A friend of mine is negotiating to buy a laptop, and the seller seems to be steering him into using a email money tranfer. Should he be cautious?
> 
> Thanks to all that reply


Sounds like at least a potential scam. The easiest and most secure online payment system is PayPal. The hallmark of shady dealing is the Western Union money transfer.


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

If it's the transfer offered by your Bank, I don't see anything sinister. It's quick, and free or very inexpensive depending on your Bank. I've used it and it works just fine for Canadian transactions.

As far as raising the scam flag, I would simply say that you should be taking the usual precautions anyway. The method of payment (besides the well-known escrow scam) shouldn't be a flag of any kind; you can be burned easily with Western Union or PMOs as well.

I've been burned on eBay with Paypal; it's no assurance of anything and it's not easy or even always possible to get any kind of fraud refund from them. If you do, you won't get 100% back.

Take the usual precautions and the method of payment is irrelevant.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

Repeater04 said:


> What would be the benefit of a seller wanting to do a email money transfer
> (besides quicker), as compared to a postal money order?
> A friend of mine is negotiating to buy a laptop, and the seller seems to be steering him into using a email money tranfer. Should he be cautious?
> 
> Thanks to all that reply


Exactly what do you mean by 'email transfer'?
As far as I know, you can do email transfers with paypal as well, that's at least what they advertize - I only use paypal to pay for ebay auctions.

I think the most important aspect is to feel comfortable with the seller. Even paypal payments are only insured up to a certain amount.
A postal money order is as good as cash to the other person, I don't think you have much recourse if it gets cashed and you never get the laptop.
In the US they have mail fraud laws that are pretty strong and rigidly enforced - not so here as far as I know.


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

eMail transfers are available as a service from Canadian Banks. Relatively new (most banks have offered it for about a year), but quick and painless.

PayPal is a bank incorporated in Louisiana. They picked that state because at the time, the way PayPal did business was basically illegal in almost every state. Things have since been updated and PayPal is now a "legitimate business" ;-)


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I'd take email transfers via the bank over Paypal anyday. We do them all the time and it is certainly an assurance that the seller has a traceable identity.

Paypal has no security whatsoever.


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## Repeater04 (Nov 29, 2004)

MacDoc said:


> I'd take email transfers via the bank over Paypal anyday. We do them all the time and it is certainly an assurance that the seller has a traceable identity.
> 
> Paypal has no security whatsoever.


Thanks a lot, guys. I'll give my friend this info.
The only reason, I may have over-reacted was, 
the seller said that if my friend sent a money order, it may take a while
before he went to the bank to cash it, since he hardly goes there, and
does most of his banking online.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

gordguide said:


> eMail transfers are available as a service from Canadian Banks. Relatively new (most banks have offered it for about a year), but quick an painless.


The banks sure keep this quiet, I never heard of this before and none of the banks ever suggested that as an option.
Sounds pretty good - does it only work within Canada or to/from the US as well?

Amazing what you learn on ehMac


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## xorpion (Jul 26, 2002)

krs said:


> The banks sure keep this quiet, I never heard of this before and none of the banks ever suggested that as an option.
> Sounds pretty good - does it only work within Canada or to/from the US as well?
> 
> Amazing what you learn on ehMac



www.certapay.com

that is the service in question.


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## kent (Oct 18, 2003)

Emailing money and money orders are the same thing except one is electronic and one isn't; in essence, they're both like handing someone cash. If the person on the other end is a shyster then you're $hit out of luck I'm afraid. At least with VISA you have some recourse. Shysters love MOs or electrontic transfers b/c there is no way of tracing the transaction and once the money is sent, it's theirs. If you don't know the other person and they request a MO or email transfer without other options, I'd be concerned ... personally, I wouldn't bother with the transaction. For honest sellers, both these methods are far more attractive, but they don't protect the buyer.

For those of you not familiar with emailing cash - it's fantastic, but you have to trust the recipient.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

xorpion said:


> www.certapay.com
> 
> that is the service in question.


Thanks.........

Sounds somewhat similar to the money transfer service I use with my bank account in Europe. Except with the European one you can transfer anywhere in the world directly from your account into the recipients account without going the email route.

Works for every country except the US and Canada, we seem to be an isolated island when it comes to global banking.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

kent said:


> Emailing money and money orders are the same thing except one is electronic and one isn't; in essence, they're both like handing someone cash. If the person on the other end is a shyster then you're $hit out of luck I'm afraid. At least with VISA you have some recourse. Shysters love MOs or electrontic transfers b/c there is no way of tracing the transaction and once the money is sent, it's theirs. If you don't know the other person and they request a MO or email transfer without other options, I'd be concerned ... personally, I wouldn't bother with the transaction. For honest sellers, both these methods are far more attractive, but they don't protect the buyer.
> 
> For those of you not familiar with emailing cash - it's fantastic, but you have to trust the recipient.


The way I understood it, with email transfers the recipient has to at least have a bank account to receive the money, so you have some hope of tracing him/her.
That is not the case if you send a money order (or cash of course).

What other choice do you have paying a private person? You can't pay using a credit card, so it's cash, cheque, moneyorder or transfer. 
The only way to *really* protect yourself is by using an escrow service or doing the transaction in person.


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## kent (Oct 18, 2003)

krs said:


> The way I understood it, with email transfers the recipient has to at least have a bank account to receive the money, so you have some hope of tracing him/her.
> That is not the case if you send a money order (or cash of course).
> 
> What other choice do you have paying a private person? You can't pay using a credit card, so it's cash, cheque, moneyorder or transfer.
> The only way to *really* protect yourself is by using an escrow service or doing the transaction in person.



True ... you do need to have a bank account, which makes it a little more honest. I had thought of that, but I'm sure there are lots of shifty bank accounts out there. We have to remember that people make really *good* livings stealing from other people and they have very elaborate ways of doing it. The other issue that tips the scales in favour of the email transfer is that with banks there is also a paper-trail and criminals hate paper-trails. Another, safer way of paying a private individual is through Pay-Pal or other 3rd party as mentioned above ... you can use your VISA card and thus you're "protected" against fraud.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

kent said:


> Another, safer way of paying a private individual is through Pay-Pal or other 3rd party as mentioned above ... you can use your VISA card and thus you're "protected" against fraud.


You can only use a credit card with paypal if the seller has a merchant account. For a private paypal account which most individuals have, credit card payment is not possible.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

I've use e-mail money transfer on a few eBay transactions at my own request (read, Interac E-Mail Money Transfers) they're basically electronic cheques, but with added security features. They're just as secure as paying by Paypal linked bank accounts. The only thing is that by paying by PayPal, you usually get extra fraud insurance. My two cents. Interac EMTs are awesome for small purchases but stick with PayPal for larger purchases.


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## jasonwood (Oct 19, 2003)

Email Money Transfer can be risky for a seller. There's a basic flaw in the way the process works because the recipient receives an email with a link. An email with a link? NO NO NO BAD BAD BAD WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?!?!?!!!!! The link takes you to a page where you choose your bank, then you login to your onine banking to deposit the EMT payment. Someone could easily fake that email, and the bank choice web page, and the bank login page too! I can't believe they've gotten away with doing this for so long. I know someone who has received an EMT phish. A company like Interac should no better. We should be training people never to click links in financial emails, I mean, if everybody knew that, there wouldn't be a phishing problem!


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## tedj (Sep 9, 2004)

As it is YOUR bank that sends you said email, you can just ignore the link, and otherwise log into your online account, accepting the transaction. 

I think... its been a couple months...


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

On-line banking with any of the five large Canadian banks is not secure anyway. They all encrypt the information from the computer out over the net but do nothing for the link from the keyboard to the computer.
When I read a while back that keystroke loggers can be installed on your computer remotely I got a bit nervous. Probably not an issue for the Mac but for Windows machines definitely.
I had always thought that keystroke loggers had to be installed locally at the computer.

Both the Ontario Credit Union I belong to and the Deutsche Bank in Germany have implemented on-line banking in (different) ways to prevent keystroke loggers from becoming a problem, so I deal with them mostly.


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## Jordan (Jul 20, 2002)

jasonwood said:


> Email Money Transfer can be risky for a seller. There's a basic flaw in the way the process works because the recipient receives an email with a link. An email with a link? NO NO NO BAD BAD BAD WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?!?!?!!!!! The link takes you to a page where you choose your bank, then you login to your onine banking to deposit the EMT payment. Someone could easily fake that email, and the bank choice web page, and the bank login page too! I can't believe they've gotten away with doing this for so long. I know someone who has received an EMT phish. A company like Interac should no better. We should be training people never to click links in financial emails, I mean, if everybody knew that, there wouldn't be a phishing problem!


I takes you to your personal bank account, unless someone can fake all your transactions, credit info and anything else in your personal account within seconds of logging into your account ............. well I highly doubt it.

I prefer E-mail Money Transfers as a seller and buyer. There is a record with the banks of the transaction and who the parties are and accounts, even if you don't know everything about the seller/buyer.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

Jordan said:


> I takes you to your personal bank account, unless someone can fake all your transactions, credit info and anything else in your personal account within seconds of logging into your account ............. well I highly doubt it.


No, no, no............................
The smart way for the phisher to do this is to not actually take you down to that level.
You get the phished email, click on the link, a website shows up that looks identical to your banks website asking you to enter account and pin number.
You enter the information and you get another official looking website with the bank's logo on it with some legitimate excuse why you didn't get to your individual account.
ie: "We are currently experiencing difficulty with our server. Our technicians have been notified and are in the process of resolving the issue. Please check back in 30 minutes"
or something else that people might believe.

How does the phisher know which particular bank you have an account with? 
Well, he normally wouldn't, he just sends out a few hundred thousand emails from , say the Royal Bank. With only five major banks in Canada his hit rate is going to be pretty good......the only thing protecting you if you happen to use that bank is to not click on the button and enter your personal information on the website that comes up.
Whenever I get an email like that and if it's not totally obvious it's a phishing email (the English is often an immediate give-away), I simply copy the URL associated with the 'click here' button and paste it into a word document. Looking at the URL makes fraud pretty obvious.
What I think is more of an issue is pharming.


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## MacGYVER (Apr 15, 2005)

So, basically we are telling the OP to forget about the whole transaction as there really is no safe way in Canada to do ANY transaction what so ever.

What is being said is, that in Canada we have a high rate of crime in dealing with transactions of any kind.

In this thread alone it sounds like we should never receive a money order of any kind because it will be a fraud or a scam and you won't receive your money. We shouldn't use online banking E-mail money transfers as that too will give you nothing in the end. Better not use PayPal as they truly suck at backing you up when you do get ripped off ( I know from experience, they don't do anything to get your money back) 

So what is left? Meeting with the person and handing over cash? How do you know the cash is real? Counterfeiting exists as well, do you ALL know how to distinguish a fake from a real bill? I do, and let me tell you, some of the counterfeits are pretty damn close to the real thing, even with the latest and newest bills out there in circulation.

Point is, we can't just assume that all technology and ways of paying for things are a bad thing and that we should avoid them at all costs. If we did, none of you would do online banking, or use eBay, or pay with your debit or credit cards, or even use cash for making purchases. None of you would use the internet for buying memory sticks etc.. for your Mac, or buying a Mac online from Apple.

The people in the USA don't even have a system set up like certapay here in Canada. We are lucky to have such a service through our banks. They rely on PayPal for just about everything when it comes to online payments. That's all they know and have access to. Here in Canada we are ahead of them in technology, in that aspect. But the technology can't advanced if everyone is scared to move ahead and use it. It may not be 100% perfect, but technology never is. Just like your bank, they can screw your account up faster then you can blink, no scam needed there .

I agree, you have to take precautions when dealing with any transaction, either online or off line, but let it be within reason and try not to scare the crap out of those that never used the technology in the first place.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

The thing is that if you are expecting an EMT from someone, and you get an email from your own bank or credit union, it is a fairly good clue about the money arriving.

The answer to what to do to ensure security was given above, though: do not use the notification email you receive to log in to your account. Log in from your own browser/bookmark/type in the URL and sign in yourself. That way you can't be phished/pharmed.

EMTs do leave an account trail. More to the point with *any* such transaction is that people can take your money, as they do with cheques or money orders, and then have to provide the goods.

Given the stories a few months ago about bogus money orders (real money orders for low amounts, like a few dollars, and then doctored to look like hundreds or thousands), it isn't like you are safer that way. The only way would be if you deposit the money order and wait for the bank to verify its legitimacy. Simply depositing a money order does not verify you will receive its perceived value. A bank will reverse that deposit when it finds the money order to be fake.

As for cheques, if you are the seller take a photocopy and then wait for the money to clear. I find that if you have the buyer's bank account number and signature, not much can go wrong. If the money doesn't clear, you'll hear about it too.






jasonwood said:


> Email Money Transfer can be risky for a seller. There's a basic flaw in the way the process works because the recipient receives an email with a link. An email with a link? NO NO NO BAD BAD BAD WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?!?!?!!!!! The link takes you to a page where you choose your bank, then you login to your onine banking to deposit the EMT payment. Someone could easily fake that email, and the bank choice web page, and the bank login page too! I can't believe they've gotten away with doing this for so long. I know someone who has received an EMT phish. A company like Interac should no better. We should be training people never to click links in financial emails, I mean, if everybody knew that, there wouldn't be a phishing problem!


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

MacGyver - I don't think the thread is quite as bad as you suggest.
I have no qualms at at all using Visa (or equivalent) over the net because you have recourse if something goes wrong and Visa (or most other credit cards) do take responsibility and action if transactions are fraudulous. In any case, by law, you are only liable for the first $50.00 and the card companies have even waived that.

The situation is not the same with the banks. I lost $200.00 twice through fraudulent ATM withdrawals and all I get from the bank is that someone must have my card and PIN number...yeah sure.
In a sense I'm lucky only loosing $400.-, I have friends with some real horror stories to tell.

The basic problem is that banks take zero responsibility when something goes wrong. It's never their problem no matter how much they screwed up.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

HowEver said:


> Log in from your own browser/bookmark/type in the URL and sign in yourself. That way you can't be phished/pharmed.


How would that protect you against pharming?

Pharming


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Actually, wasn't Safari updated so that fake URLs can't be displayed?

If I understand pharming right now, forget it, if a website gets hijacked, you're screwed anyways.

Might as well go back to being scammed by a brick and mortar employee double swiping your credit card.




krs said:


> How would that protect you against pharming?
> 
> Pharming


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

It works fine.

There is no greater risk of fraud than there would be with any other online (or offline by mail, for that matter) transaction. Use appropriate caution and procedures (eg not clicking on an eMail link is so basic that if you don't follow/know about that one, you shouldn't be buying <i>anything</i> online).

Keyloggers? Hey, I know, lets go to Starbucks, they have WiFi there; I can do all my banking, pay all my bills, and do some shopping on eBay while I'm at it. Yeah, that's it.

C'mon guys. If you have a keylogger installed, sending a few bucks by eMail is <i>the least</i> of your worries. If you don't, then just use reasonable care.

No one has asked the most basic question yet, so I'll bite:

What is it that makes you suspicious? If it's solely that he asked for an eMail Transfer via Interac then it's not worth worrying about. If there was some other reason your hackles were up, then the method of payment is irrelevant; <i>listen to your instincts and don't buy it</i>.


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## winwintoo (Nov 9, 2004)

HowEver said:


> The thing is that if you are expecting an EMT from someone, and you get an email from your own bank or credit union, it is a fairly good clue about the money arriving.
> QUOTE]
> 
> When the EMT arrives, you don't get an email from YOUR bank because you didn't tell the seller where you bank - why would you tell the seller what bank you use, that would be stupid!
> ...


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

That's what I meant.

Except the email I get ("Got your cash!") is from the electronic wallet service my bank uses. True, the receiver will never know which bank, but I can figure out it isn't spam.


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## winwintoo (Nov 9, 2004)

HowEver said:


> That's what I meant.
> 
> Except the email I get ("Got your cash!") is from the electronic wallet service my bank uses. True, the receiver will never know which bank, but I can figure out it isn't spam.


Ah, sorry HowEver, I knew that's what you meant, but there was just so much misinformation about email money transfers, I just felt a need to make that point clear.

Memo to Margaret - be more tactful when posting to forums.

Take care, Margaret


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## jasonwood (Oct 19, 2003)

tedj said:


> As it is YOUR bank that sends you said email, you can just ignore the link, and otherwise log into your online account, accepting the transaction.
> 
> I think... its been a couple months...


no, your bank doesn't send it, Certapay does. It includes a link. On the linked page you choose your bank, then you get sent to the bank login page, but the original link has passed a code identifying the EMT. You can't just go to your online banking page because then you'd have no way to deposit the EMT. It has to be done from the link in the email.


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## jasonwood (Oct 19, 2003)

The point I'm trying to make is not that EMT is insecure (though I'd recommend credit card any day), just that you can be taken advantage of if you don't know what to look for in URLs. What they should be doing is giving you an ID number in the email, then say "Go log in to your online banking as you usually do, then click "deposit Email Money Transfer" and follow the bouncing ball..."

...just like eBay and PayPal do!


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

winwintoo said:


> There seems to be unreasonable fear around using credit cards on the net. I've had experience recently where one of my sons made a purchase using my credit card and I got a call within minutes asking if the charge was ligit.
> 
> The credit card companies are monitoring the internet traffice pretty closely. Not because they care about me. NO, they don't care about me all that much because I'm not on the hook if my card is stolen. THEY are on the hook if my card is misused so they want to make sure that if things are being charged to that card, it's really me using it and I'm going to pay the bill at the end of the month.
> 
> ...


I thought I had read every post in this thread.
Don't recall any that suggest anyone has "an unreasonable fear around using credit cards on the net." In fact I posted that I feel extremely comfortable doing so for exactly the reason you mentioned.

Also 'Identity theft' - did that come up? I must have missed it in the postings.

I have purchased a lot over the net, this year more than ever. never had a problem.
Just use your common sense and take some basic precautions. And use your common sense...can't repeat that often enough.

I remember going into the discussion group on ebay once and a buyer was asking: "I bought this 3 carat diamond ring for $220.- but the seller has been suspended by eBay. Should I send the money?"
Well yeah, of course if the $220 is burning a hole in your pocket and you need to get rid of it.


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## MacGYVER (Apr 15, 2005)

krs,

The reason is, that people in this thread drove absolute fear into the OP about using any sort of payment, or so that is what it seemed like from some of the posts. Not too many people were willing to educate the OP in what to do, instead it was "Oh don't do that, that is not safe by any means..." Everyone was too eager to say "Oh don't use E-mail money transfer, money orders are bad etc.."

Perhaps in the next thread on this subject, people could actually educate and explain on how such technology works like Margaret did in her earlier posts.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

MacGyver -

Don't get me wrong. 

I certainly appreciated the information on Interact email payments; I didn't even know that payment option .existed until this thread was posted.

My only point was that I don't recall any posts about fear of using a credit card or identity theft (which is a separate issue all by itself).


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