# El Cheapo Tire Advice



## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

My aging chariot has some pretty worn tires and heading into the winter and the possibility of even a day or two of snow has convinced me that a new set of all-seasons is in order.

I remember I bought a set of tires years ago and walked into a Big-O Tire shop and asked the sales guy to give me some info on the ins and outs of the various tires and tread patterns on display. After a bit of inarticulate waffling I realized that he really didn't have any idea what all those different patterns on the tires were for and was basically trying to get me to buy the most expensive ones.

Then, like now, I didn't want to spend a ton on tires. I always drive used cars because the only thing I want out of a vehicle is relatively safe transportation without incurring a large ongoing expense. So at the time I picked the least expensive of a brand whose name I recognized and avoided the bottom end no-name. Not really an informed choice, but I didn't want to spend all day shopping for tires either.

So after all this intro, my question for all you knowledgeable ehMaccians is, what do I need to know when looking at the cheaper tire models to avoid getting truly crappy tires?

My car is 17 years old, so even though the mileage is relatively low, and everything is running fine, I would expect that the car will eventually give out before these tires will. So I'm looking to get my tires as cheap as possible without getting something that might end up being dangerous or just really poor quality.

I think my tire size is 185 75 R 14

As always, many thanks for your advice.

[edit] Oh yeah, forgot to ask, are Motomaster tires from Canadian Tire really crappy tires? They sure are cheaper than most.


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## ErnstNL (Apr 12, 2003)

There are a lot of recalls on tires made in China..
I bought new snow tires at Wal-Mart, tires were Korean made. They have a couple of cheap lines of all seasons. 
I've bought CT Motomaster tires many times without any problems. They were made in Canada. I don't know where they're manufactured now. If Chinese: avoid them.
If you really want to save, you can get re-treads from a reputable dealer.


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

I don't think you'd be making a mistake going with Motomaster tires. Last I knew they're still all made by the large / familiar manufacturers. One of my buddies has been using nothing but Motomasters for years & years with nary a problem.

FYI here is a list of tires and who makes them. Looks like a reasonable compilation of info however I haven't tried to find the original source.


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## Lichen Software (Jul 23, 2004)

I have used MotoMaster on my Dodge Caravan with good results - Just every day all season radials.

I have a little Suzuki Swift that I bought used. I think the previous owner hit a curb because I cannot get the alignment correct on the back wheels. It tracks wonderfully, frame is not bent, but it eats rear tires. To deal with this I went to Wally World and picked up their house brand. They are a Marshall tire. They have also been good. Yes the rear ones do wear out, but the front does not seem to wear. At $32.00 to $39.00 per tier I could not go too wrong. 100,000 KM tread warranty. Similar Can. Tire tires were more expensive and only gave a 60,000 KM warranty.

I am in the position now of having to change the tires on the Caravan and I am thinking I will go Wally World at $56.00 per tire. I believe the size is R205/75/R14 to give you a reference.


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

Another vote for Canadian Tire as the king of cheapo tyres. Their tires are made by name manufacturers and have served me well for many years. Their availability anywhere (pretty much) across the country is a big plus if you get around much. My advice is to stay with the car and watch them do the balance and install. There have been cases around here where the lug-nuts were not properly tightened or torqued (alloy wheels). It has become my habit to take the car almost immediately to "my" mechanic for rebalance as "approximate" is a generous word applied to wheel balancing done at CTC. That said the tyres serve very well and CTC honours its warranty withut question.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

GA, where are you located? Answer by pm if you wish, but sometimes there are good tire sellers depending on location.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

ErnstNL said:


> There are a lot of recalls on tires made in China.


Tires are a pretty important safety feature. I have always bought top of the line brands for all my vehicles. 

I agree. I would never buy a tire made in China.

If you are going to go cheap, then stick with the low end product offerings of good brands. I think Canadian Tire has a good range of price and I would trust their brands. They also warranty their tires as part of the price (I think).


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

A reluctant vote for Crappy Tire. Reluctant because they tried to tell me a tire could not be repaired due to a large piece of metal at the edge of the tread. When I pulled it out, it had not even scratched the surface. The real problem was 2 small nails in the middle of the tread which were easy to repair. Would not mention it except that I saw them try the same routine on another customer as well. A simple dunk would have told them no air was escaping from either tire.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

.


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

Thanks for the outpouring of useful info, guys! 

So it seems like Motomaster tires pass muster, eh? I've experienced their auto service myself and it leaves much to be desired, so if I go with CT, I'll try and be present when they install. I seem to remember hearing a news story recently where someone got new tires and then was involved in an accident when their wheel fell off.   

To answer However, I live in the Gulf Islands BC and I'll be heading to Victoria and area on Tuesday to get tires.


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## phuviano (Sep 14, 2005)

I used to work @ Canadian tire as a tire installer. I would never buy tires from Canadian Tire. Their tires are made from Michelin. Michelin's are ok, but not the greatest. Tires from cdn tire seem to have poor quality imo. I've done my fair share of warranty tire work, mostly involving bubbling of the sidewall. 

I'm not sure if you know this or not. The most important part of the tire is its sidewall. That's what holds the tire together. The stronger the sidewall, the better the tires are. Cdn tire brand tires have weak sidewalls. 

I would highly recommend getting separate winter and summer tires. All seasons imo are crap, they suck in the summer, and even worse in the winter. Winter tires are specifically designed for winter, and summer tires are the opposite. I always recommend good tires, and stick away from cheap crappy tires. Korean brands like hankook, and kuhmo. I see a lot of cars that have kuhmo's on them, and same thing, the sidewall is weak on them, and the grip sucks. I usually stick with japanese brand tires. I like Toyo's and Yokohama's. Those are the brands I use. It seems like you don't want to spend a lot. I'd go with Goodyear, they are a reliable company with good tires.

Have you checked out OK Tire. I don't know how the prices are in B.C. but in Ontario, the are relatively cheap for good brands. 

OK Tire Stores :: OK centres du pneu

When you compare prices from one place to the next, make sure its the same tire you are comparing, because if its not, the more expensive is most likely better in quality. 

btw, I don't know what the different tread patterns do specifically. Tires guys do not know this, only the R&D department at a tire manufacturer would know this. I can tell the difference between a winter tire vs. a summer tire by looking at the tread. I could also tell which tire would be able to sip away more water. However, you can't tell how well a tire will perform by its tread. That's not the only thing the affects its performance of a tire or quality of a tire.

Just remember one thing. Good tires keep you on the road, and not off it. Good tires, improve acceleration, braking, and handling (grip).


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

You might want to check out Tire Trends (http://tiretrends.com/), they seem to have reasonable prices and are based in Vancouver.

Although I understand that Canadian Tire tires are simply rebadged "brand name" tires in many cases, I have avoided them since I had one blow out years ago.

This past Spring I bought a set of "Kumho ECSTA ASX" all season tires from a small local tire shop as "Summer" tires for my Subaru. This was the first time in a very long time that I bought tires from a lesser known brand, and so far I have been very pleased with them - they were a big step up from the stock Bridgestones, at ~1/2 the price. I can't say how they are on ice and snow as I run separate Winter tires on this car, but I would consider Kumho a good bang for the buck tire and at this point I would buy them again.

If you don't drive too many miles, you could look a more "performance" oriented tire that is made from a softer rubber compound - this will give you better handling and braking at the expense of tread life.

If you are interested in reading opinions and reviews on different tires, you can check out sites like Tire Rack (http://www.tirerack.com/).


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

phuviano said:


> I would highly recommend getting separate winter and summer tires. All seasons imo are crap, they suck in the summer, and even worse in the winter. Winter tires are specifically designed for winter, and summer tires are the opposite.


I agree 100%, and have two sets of rims and tires for the cars I drive in Winter - but GA is from the Gulf Islands, and doesn't drive very much, so he is probably the only person in Canada who doesn't need Winter tires.



phuviano said:


> I always recommend good tires, and stick away from cheap crappy tires. Korean brands like hankook, and kuhmo. I see a lot of cars that have kuhmo's on them, and same thing, the sidewall is weak on them, and the grip sucks. I usually stick with japanese brand tires. I like Toyo's and Yokohama's. Those are the brands I use. It seems like you don't want to spend a lot. I'd go with Goodyear, they are a reliable company with good tires.


I have to admit I didn't think much of Korean tires until I heard good things about them, and so far I've been pleased with the Kumhos - especially when price is taken into account.

I wonder if Korean tires are improving, and are where Japanese tires were 20 years ago or so, when Toyo and Yokohama were the "bang for the buck" unknown brands, and Pirelli and Dunlop et. al. were the "you get what you pay for" safe choice?


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

PenguinBoy said:


> I agree 100%, and have two sets of rims and tires for the cars I drive in Winter - but GA is from the Gulf Islands, and doesn't drive very much, so he is probably the only person in Canada who doesn't need Winter tires.


I disagree 99% with the notion of winter tyres. I use quality multiseason tyres and have for years in Newfoundland, New Brunswick and Ontario. Winter tyres are useful maybe 2 days a year and the rest of the time they are just wearing out fast. Dry pavement just kills so-called winter tyres even in the cold and they are at best useless after 2 winters - the 'edge' is gone. I've seen all the data and have come to the conclusion that sometimes the best driving experience in foul weather is to just stay home unless you can afford to tie up $500-$1000 in wheels and tyres. Cheap winter tyres are useless from the go. I had great experience with Yokohama Avid TRZs which have three tread types in an assymetric pattern on one tread and I drove all last winter, including a midwinter snowstorm run from Merrickville to Fredericton - 10 hrs/1000+km - no issues. Safe and sound all the way running as fast as 135kph to the extent that my spousal passenger never gasped once  . I now have Goodyear Assurance triple-treads which I can't really comment on until after winter but the do have a section of the tread specifically to deal with ice. They are quiet and do not aquaplane. IMHO you should be much more concerned about wet performance than anything else. The TireRack link above is a good place to do research.


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## MacBookPro (Jun 22, 2006)

I keep my cars for a long time. One is 15 years old, the other is 12 years old.

I buy all my tires when they go on sale at Costco. Why? Name brand tires (B.F. Goodrich and Michelin), free lifetime service (balance, repair, pressure, rotation, etc.) across North America.

Buy high-mileage capable tires for cars you own that you drive a lot.

Buy lower-mileage capable tires for cars you own that you don't drive a lot, because the tires will dry and crack before the tread gets too thin. I know, as I made the mistake of buying high-mileage Michelins for the car I don't drive much and I ended up throwing out tires that were old but had TONS of tread left on 'em. Bonus - low-mileage-capable tires are usually more "sticky" than high-mileage-capable tires.

As for winter tires, these are for the types that buy SUV's and spend most of their time driving solo in the GTA region. Or for drivers who are not very good or very confident when driving in inclement winter weather or in snowy or icy road conditions. Put harshly, if you suck as a driver, buy winter tires. If you are a good driver, you will only wish you had winter tires MAYBE one or two days a year (as previously mentioned in this thread).

My two


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

For more info than you ever thought you wanted to know about tyres read Car Bibles : The Wheel and Tyre Bible Page 1 of 2.

In particular, pay attention to how to tell the age of tyres - they can have been on the shelf for a while - *note the six-year rule!!!*, namely never buy or ride on tyres made more than six years ago due to material degradation. Lots of "bargain" tyres are in this category.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

I have to agree with those recommending having a dedicated set of winter and summer tires (whether or not you have separate wheels for each set of tires is a personal preference). I used to sport all-season tires on my Mazda3... now I'm glad I no longer do, and now have dedicated summer performance tires and dedicated aggressive winter tires. The all-season tires performance in the winter was just garbage in comparison to the performance of my dedicated set of winter tires. The difference was like day and night - the same applies to my summer tires; all-season tires are no match to a good, high-quality set of summer performance tires in handling, braking, and wet driving conditions in the spring/summer seasons of the year.


PS: Why do some spell tires as "tyres?" (Is it the European/British way of spelling North American 'tires?')


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

GA, thanks, I use all-weather Yokohamas. They are a mid-range tire with all the specs of higher-cost tires. I get them from a local independent tire place that also sells more expensive brands like Michelin but recommends against them as Michelin spends more on advertising than research and development. When I bought the Yokohama tires I hadn't even seen an ad for them, although more recently I have.

Good luck whichever way you go.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

rgray said:


> Winter tyres are useful maybe 2 days a year...


There were more than 2 days last year when I was glad to have Winter tires.

Although we don't get that much snow (by Canadian standards...) we do get a lot of ice, and Winter tires definitely make a big difference on icy roads - even with AWD, ABS, ESP and all the other three letter acronyms that are meant to make modern cars safer on [email protected] roads...


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

.


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

Korean tires are tremendous value. Kumho and Hankook. You cannot go wrong. I know guys who run Kumhos on their Porsches - for 1/3 the price of Pirellis.


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## ErnstNL (Apr 12, 2003)

I bought Nexen brand snow tires at WalMart. They are a smaller Korean tire manufacturer and so far, and they aren't bad. I've had them on my Focus wagon for a month. Cheapos - $422 installed and balanced for 4.


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

PenguinBoy said:


> I agree 100%, and have two sets of rims and tires for the cars I drive in Winter - but GA is from the Gulf Islands, and doesn't drive very much, so he is probably the only person in Canada who doesn't need Winter tires.


Well I'm not the _only_ person, there are probably a few million of us in this part of BC that don't really need winter tires. That said we do get at least one big dump of snow most winters. Since we don't get a lot of snow there isn't a lot of snow maintenance done by the various towns and cities. If they get enough warning there is salting done, but sometimes these things happen too quickly for that. Any ploughing that gets done is usually only the main routes and that often takes a while. Sometimes the traffic ploughs the snow away first or the weather changes to rain and it melts before streets get ploughed.

Since I have limited experience driving in snow and given the usual condition of the roads I usually choose to not drive until the roads get into better shape. I don't drive a lot anyway, so often I don't really need to drive in bad weather. I'm sometimes in the situation where I've booked a ferry spot to the Mainland and the weather is calling for snow. The thought of going all the way from Tsawassen into Vancouver on the highway in a dump of snow is something I'd rather avoid, but I'd like to be ready for it anyway. I'm not going to get a set of snow tires for that minor possibility though. All seasons will have to do in that case and I'll drive maddeningly slow like the rest of the drivers out there who don't have snow tires. 

Wow so much info in this thread, the tire bible link was very informative. Thanks.

Not sure now if I should go the Motomaster route. That would be far easier and would allow me to come home on Tuesday night having spent less than $300. I guess I'll do some phoning around tomorrow. (Local tire dealers don't seem to be big on having a web presence  ).


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

Having owned a few cars over the years - I prefer and try to purchase Michelins. But they can be a little on the expensive side. So when I owned a used Chevy Corsica, I really did not want to spend much on tires, and ended up buying Goodyears. The only problem with them was the rubber wore out quickly, a softer compound tire than the Michelins I am used to. I was pretty happy with them, and the Corsica had odd sized "balloon" tires, so I only had a few choices. My new car had Goodyears, and they have been entirely adequate.

I had a set of Motomasters on the Corsica when I bought it, and they worked fine but were close to the tread wear indicators. I have no idea how long the previous people used them. But on an older car that I did not want to spend much money on, I'd go for them, or perhaps for the lower end Goodyears. I wish I could remember what they were called, but I got them for $60 each installed at Goodyear, which was a little cheaper than CT.


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## kernel (Oct 10, 2008)

I have a question. Is it advisable to put slightly larger tires (snows) on a car. I'm considering putting 235/75 R16 tires (all four) on my Lincoln town car that came with 225/70 R16 tires. 
They come off my E150 van and are therefore available. The Lincoln is a 2000 model. My concern is whether there would be any adverse effect on performance or odometer/kph reading. Thanks.


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

Well....

I've bought tires from Canadian Tire and Costco.

Some general things to consider, Canadian Tire does free installation but charges for balancing. They also charge to rebalance your wheel when you get a flat repaired. I just had one done.... they do offer free tire rotation but you might want to watch out for the 'other problems' they find that aren't.

Costco offers free installation and balancing as well as lifetime rotation free repair and balancing. I find Costco a bit more expensive than CT when CT has sales such as the buy 1 get 1 at half price.

If you want really really cheap you can try Kijiji and Craigslist since your tire size is fairly common. You might hit someone who just got a car and immediately swapped out their tires.

Also check your local wreckers, here in Ontario we have places such as Carcone and Standard Auto wreckers who sell tires from wrecks. Some times you get real lucky in that it was a very new car or just had it's tire replaced when it was written off.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

kernel said:


> I have a question. Is it advisable to put slightly larger tires (snows) on a car.


No. If anything, Winter tires should be slightly narrower. Good explanation here: Winter Tech - Size Selection of Winter Tires


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

PenguinBoy said:


> No. If anything, Winter tires should be slightly narrower. Good explanation here: Winter Tech - Size Selection of Winter Tires


What he said.

The larger the tire, the more difficult it is to move through snow, particularly thick snow.


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

On one car I used cheap line of Goodyears, and they were entirely adequate, considering they were less than half the cost of Michelins. But the "cheaper" tires are usually made out of softer rubber compounds, so they wear out faster, which was my experience with the Goodyears. I think you will be ok with Motomaster, as long as it is not some made in China garbage.


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