# Rogers Return Policy Meaningless and Useless



## petero1818 (Jul 2, 2008)

Just got off the phone with Rogers. The 30 day return policy with Iphone like all their phones must be used for less than (combined) 30 minutes of voice or 30 kb data. That means that you could test the phone and its bluetooth antenna for about 10 minutes. Then you could use less than 20 kb of data checking email and 3G web speeds. Well you can see my concern. You will blow through 20kb of data in about 5 minutes or less. I previously used an unlocked Iphone on Rogers with a $65 for 1Gig plan and was not happy with a few things. Namely, reception not nearly as good as my RIM device, the dreaded "message not downloaded from server" message on 40% of emails and a bad bluetooth antenna. I wanted to make sure that these things were improved in the new version. It looks like Rogers will not let me test this in any meaningful way. Thoughts?
Also was told by the Rogers store I had my name on a list with that the list just means they will call me as they have been told that they cannot hold reservations. First come first serve.


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## Drizzx (Jun 30, 2008)

petero1818 said:


> Just got off the phone with Rogers. The 30 day return policy with Iphone like all their phones must be used for less than (combined) 30 minutes of voice or 30 kb data. That means that you could test the phone and its bluetooth antenna for about 10 minutes. Then you could use less than 20 kb of data checking email and 3G web speeds. Well you can see my concern. You will blow through 20kb of data in about 5 minutes or less. I previously used an unlocked Iphone on Rogers with a $65 for 1Gig plan and was not happy with a few things. Namely, reception not nearly as good as my RIM device, the dreaded "message not downloaded from server" message on 40% of emails and a bad bluetooth antenna. I wanted to make sure that these things were improved in the new version. It looks like Rogers will not let me test this in any meaningful way. Thoughts?
> Also was told by the Rogers store I had my name on a list with that the list just means they will call me as they have been told that they cannot hold reservations. First come first serve.


You'd blow through 20Kb of data the first time you open Safari. Their return policy has obviously not been updatedto reflect the usage rates of the iPhone.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Bluetooth connections don't count for data.

Where did you find the 30kb of data limit for returns?


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## petero1818 (Jul 2, 2008)

*Questions*



Drizzx said:


> You'd blow through 20Kb of data the first time you open Safari. Their return policy has obviously not been updatedto reflect the usage rates of the iPhone.


You are correct. However when I pressed them on it, they stated that this is the return policy. Thats it. I asked to speak to a manager as I said that cant be the case, she said it was, and if I was unhappy with that I should complain via the Rogers web site complaint procedures.

As for the Bluetooth comment, I am well aware that the BT does not use data, my point is that in testing out the phone's bluetooth antenna I do need to use voice minutes, and every voice minute I use reduces the amount of KBs I can use for data. Same goes for testing the reception and call quality generally.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

If you deal with a reputable store, these limits are somewhat more flexible. 

The bluetooth connection for voice either works or doesn't. You need a few seconds to test it.

"Every voice minute I use reduces the amount of KBs I can use for data."

If you think really hard about that statement, knowing that voice and data are completely different things, you'll understand that it is incorrect.

_[I recently returned a Nokia N95 with 0 minutes voice (it was an extra line) and a few hundred MB of data, after 3 weeks--the day after the iPhone was announced.]_


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## jay1975 (Jul 4, 2008)

*wi-fi*

i've been trying to post on this thread and for some reason its not appearing. I asked about what you guys think about just using my current voice plan and not getting any data-plan? I'll just use wi-fi. Im pretty much always in range. The 1st gen. iphone had an option to only use wi-fi. So i plan on doing the same with the 3g iphone. This way ill never have any data charges appear on my bill. Any one else planning on doing this? (sorry of this appears twice)


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## Drizzx (Jun 30, 2008)

jay1975 said:


> i've been trying to post on this thread and for some reason its not appearing. I asked about what you guys think about just using my current voice plan and not getting any data-plan? I'll just use wi-fi. Im pretty much always in range. The 1st gen. iphone had an option to only use wi-fi. So i plan on doing the same with the 3g iphone. This way ill never have any data charges appear on my bill. Any one else planning on doing this? (sorry of this appears twice)


Personally I think it'll be a mistake b/c every time you boot the phone, my understanding is that it reconnects the data. Without a data plan, you get charged by the Kilobyte.

This would be especially bad if you have any application like mail set to auto-check.

Perhaps someone can tell you different, but that is how I understand it works today.


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## jay1975 (Jul 4, 2008)

Drizzx said:


> Personally I think it'll be a mistake b/c every time you boot the phone, my understanding is that it reconnects the data. Without a data plan, you get charged by the Kilobyte.
> 
> This would be especially bad if you have any application like mail set to auto-check.
> 
> Perhaps someone can tell you different, but that is how I understand it works today.


Can anyone else confirm this. Is anyone else planning on not getting a data-plan and using wi-fi only?


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

jay1975 said:


> Can anyone else confirm this. Is anyone else planning on not getting a data-plan and using wi-fi only?


I would wait once it is released to see what the options are and what happens when you turn off Edge data connection, if you can like iPhone 1.0.

I would not trust a salesperson to give you the right answer right now or on July 11th and now one knows because it has not been released yet.


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## petero1818 (Jul 2, 2008)

*Sorry However Rogers reports somethign different.*



HowEver said:


> If you deal with a reputable store, these limits are somewhat more flexible.
> 
> The bluetooth connection for voice either works or doesn't. You need a few seconds to test it.
> 
> ...


According to Rogers, they measure the amount used in units. It is a combination of minutes of voice and KB of Data. I was told that a combination of these 2 things cannot exceed 30 Units. While you and or your dealer may have ignored that, it appears Rogers claims to be within their rights not to.

Secondly, with all due respect you are wrong. The fact that my BT headset can connect is not what I want to check. I know it will. It is the antenna strength I wish to review. The original Iphone had terrible BT antenna strength. It also was unreliable in its syncing with my Parrot system in my car. Both my BT headset and parrot car system work flawlessly with my RIM device. 

I trust now you understand my point, and your misuderstanding of it.


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## PierreB (Mar 5, 2007)

*check your local consumer law*

Rogers/Fido would have to respect to consumer laws which are typically slightly different in each province. 

I would be surprised if the conditions outlined in the initial post would be acceptable under most provincial consumer laws.


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## petero1818 (Jul 2, 2008)

PierreB said:


> Rogers/Fido would have to respect to consumer laws which are typically slightly different in each province.
> 
> I would be surprised if the conditions outlined in the initial post would be acceptable under most provincial consumer laws.


There really is not a lot of consumer protection in Ontario, though I dont know of other provinces. THe fact is that the 30 minutes of voice as a prerequisite for buyers remorse return is well established and legal. There is no reason to suggest that the data cap would be treated otherwise, though one could argue that with the Iphone it renders testing the device impossible.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

You can blow through 30kb in half a second at 3G speeds...


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## badservice (Dec 31, 2011)

*Bogus Return Policy*

This is the first time I've been angry enough to actually take the time to post something via a platform such as this. My wife and I went through this experience yesterday. We returned an I-Phone yesterday because we decided it was not what we wanted as a work phone. The Rogers early cancellation policy is an absolute pointless 15 day or 30 minute rule. While I fully appreciate that Rogers needs to have a return policy the 30 minute airtime portion of the policy is unrealistic. We had the phone for less than 1 1/2 days and had received one call on the phone and placed one call to set up the phone my 10 favorite numbers.
When we returned the phone to the point of sale it was then that we were informed of the 30 minute portion of the return policy. It was not mentioned during the sales pitch and it was not noticed when the document (Maintenance Agreement) was signed. The clerk at point of sale did everything in her power to help us but Rogers would not relent it's position on the policy. The phone was used LESS THAN 2 FLIPPIN DAYS. After 2.5 hours at the store the clerk finally got the manager of the store to agree to trade the 
I-phone for a Blackberry. The 30 minutes is a Rogers policy and not an industry standard. If anyone can have a phone for 15 days and only use less than 30 minutes you should be walking on water and feeding thousands with one loaf of bread. 
Rogers you are just another corporate greedy organization who doesn't care about your customers with fair rules. Your stance seems to be that if you lose one customer big deal, we're still filling the pockets. No wonder people were camping out in parks across the country.


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## milhaus (Jun 1, 2004)

badservice said:


> Your stance seems to be that if you lose one customer big deal, we're still filling the pockets. No wonder people were camping out in parks across the country.


Oh Christ. Yeah, let's start the Occupy Rogers movement. Egypt is nothing compared to this.


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## Mrsam (Jan 14, 2006)

badservice said:


> This is the first time I've been angry enough to actually take the time to post something via a platform such as this. My wife and I went through this experience yesterday. We returned an I-Phone yesterday because we decided it was not what we wanted as a work phone. The Rogers early cancellation policy is an absolute pointless 15 day or 30 minute rule. While I fully appreciate that Rogers needs to have a return policy the 30 minute airtime portion of the policy is unrealistic. We had the phone for less than 1 1/2 days and had received one call on the phone and placed one call to set up the phone my 10 favorite numbers.
> When we returned the phone to the point of sale it was then that we were informed of the 30 minute portion of the return policy. It was not mentioned during the sales pitch and it was not noticed when the document (Maintenance Agreement) was signed. The clerk at point of sale did everything in her power to help us but Rogers would not relent it's position on the policy. The phone was used LESS THAN 2 FLIPPIN DAYS. After 2.5 hours at the store the clerk finally got the manager of the store to agree to trade the
> I-phone for a Blackberry. The 30 minutes is a Rogers policy and not an industry standard. If anyone can have a phone for 15 days and only use less than 30 minutes you should be walking on water and feeding thousands with one loaf of bread.
> Rogers you are just another corporate greedy organization who doesn't care about your customers with fair rules. Your stance seems to be that if you lose one customer big deal, we're still filling the pockets. No wonder people were camping out in parks across the country.


Pro Tip: Read contracts before you sign them.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

On behalf of those that already posted, we're not entirely unsympathetic to your position, but yeah, knowing the return policy at (store) is a good idea for any substantive purchases.

I'm glad that you got an exchange, and I'm sorry it took 2.5 hours to get that done when they could obviously have done it all along. I do think you got a BIT carried away with your final statements, but frustration can make us all say things that are a little ridiculous.


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## johnnydee (Feb 10, 2004)

While it's very easy to blame someone for not reading the fine print. We all do it!
Everyone who signs a 3 year contract for $3000 for a $500 iphone subsidy could very well have inserted in the contract" we are going to screw you for 36 months" and we all still sign that contract! 
The fact that Rogers has an unrealistic return policy is probably just the same as at the others and until we can break free of the CRTC allowing the big 3 to have a monopoly on the cell phone business this type of service will continue!


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## fellfromtree (May 18, 2005)

Read the contract- right. I went thru this crap with Bell, spent a total of 3.75hrs in 4 visits to a Bell store getting things straightened out, not to mention phone calls and internet help with Bell.
They hand you a 9 page contract once you've agreed your going to buy the phone. In my time in the store (I had plenty of time to see many phones sold, I could have sold people phones by the time I finally left that place), I did not see one person read a contract. You see the basics, the sales people point out the basics. You're not going to negotiate your own contract terms or change their terms.

I returned my iPhone well within my contract rights, after taking the time to read thru the contract and test the phone a bit (which as mentioned is barely adequate). I did not like some of the hidden things in the contract. My salesperson did warn me several times that if I went over the 30 minute/ 5mb limit there was no way I would be able to return the phone. I've read thru the contract and see no mention of a 5mb data limit for phone, but it was mentioned several times to me.

Predictably, it didn't end there. Bell billed me a month later for service on a cancelled account, and three months later charged my CC for the data plan for the length of the contract ($400). It took another 1.5 months to get my money back.
The ridiculous part- even though I had the printed document/receipt with reference number showing that I had returned the phone and the account terminated- Bell would not accept that. I had to go to the Bell store, find my salesperson, and have them call into Bell and confirm personally that the phone had been returned.
Idiotic.


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