# Do they even make reliable quality products anymore?



## simon (Nov 2, 2002)

Ode to my desk lamp ... for nearly 25 years, yes that is correct - 25 YEARS - my faithful desk lamp, an adjustable gooseneck Lampukas has turned on almost everyday (same florescent lightbulb too I might add) to illuminate my work area. It has seen countless moves and has even been used as a construction light when I renovated my basement. Sadly I believe it's days are now numbered, the lamp is faltering. It's bulb is flickering and clicking and it's making weird electrical sounds that it's never made before and when I turned it on today it clicked and refused to turn on - but then I flicked it's switch again it worked and it's on right now (so one more day at least).

Anyways, this got me thinking. Do they even make quality items like this anymore? We bought living room lamps at IKEA last year and in one year both are broken (just the light switch part - both snapped off trying to turn the light on or off). I have had power tools snap in half off doing the things they were designed to do on the first try right out the box. I have countless other examples of good money paid for supposed quality only to be replacing the same said item a year or so later (usually right after the warranty expires too) because it has stopped functioning.

Sometimes I would rather pay more knowing I am getting a better more reliable product, (one of the reasons I originally switched to a Mac) but sometimes I'm finding that even though I am paying more I am not always getting what I think I paid for (and yes, Apple has dropped the ball on me a few times too). When I go to the dollar store, I expect the item I bought to exactly last the 5 - 10 minutes I need it for ... but why am I getting not much more value for the item I pay 10 times as much for ... shouldn't I?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

It's a new manufacturing process called "built-in obsolescence".

My parents fridge, bought in the 1950s is still happily cooling beer in my neighbours garage. Has been since I gave it to him in 1988.

We, on the other hand, are on our third fridge since the day we gave it away. When I asked the clerk where we bought our last new fridge a few short months ago about longevity, it was she who used the phrase "built-in obsolescence" and I now believe she was right.


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## chasMac (Jul 29, 2008)

SINC said:


> It's a new manufacturing process called "built-in obsolescence".


Perhaps relatively speaking it's new, but it's well-known that Detroit has been engineering obsolescence since at least the '60's.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

chasMac said:


> Perhaps relatively speaking it's new, but it's well-known that Detroit has been engineering obsolescence since at least the '60's.


'Tis true. Today's economy is practically built on built in obsolescence.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

IKEA sells a line composed almsot exclusively of junk. My office consists almost entirely of vintage items that continue to perfrom for me year after year. There's a passing parade of touch-tone phones and ink jet printers, but everything else remains the same. At least my Apple computer items hang in for a long time and look good among the vintage items.


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## KC4 (Feb 2, 2009)

I sadly think in some cases, it's an intentionally built in obsolescence. Product manufacturers want consumers to buy a new product every few years, or less. 

No wonder our landfills are exploding and recycling has come to the forefront. So many things are made to be disposable/recyclable.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

chasMac said:


> Perhaps relatively speaking it's new, but it's well-known that Detroit has been engineering obsolescence since at least the '60's.


Uh, maybe not so much:

Romancing the Road


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## chasMac (Jul 29, 2008)

SINC said:


> Uh, maybe not so much:
> 
> Romancing the Road


Got this from the auto channel site:



> If any year had to be picked as the dividing line between the old auto industry and the modern, 1924 is a likely candidate...
> 
> Almost everyone owned a car by 1925. Now cars would have to be sold almost entirely to current car owners.
> 
> ...


Reaches back much further than the '60's I guess. And knowing the canny businessman that Henry Ford was, that the genesis of this idea occurred in the '20s (when he was at the top of his game) makes sense.


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## adagio (Aug 23, 2002)

I also lament the days when something would last. I don't mind paying a bit more but I have found in the last couple of years that price has little bearing on whether the item will be around longer than 10 seconds out of warranty. Reluctantly I now buy cheap knowing full well it will hit the landfill in short order. The worst culprits are small kitchen appliances. grrrrr....


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## MLeh (Dec 23, 2005)

adagio said:


> The worst culprits are small kitchen appliances. grrrrr....


Absolutely.

We recently furnished our daughter's place with our old (mostly wedding presents from 1982) kitchen appliances. Since last summer we've been through two toasters (same manufacturing defect on both - don't toast one side), can't find a electric frying pan that comes close to matching our almost 30 year old one, and the worst culprit: try to find a replacement carafe for a coffee maker. A new Coffee maker is $30 or so. The replacement carafe? $28.

(We're still using our microwave from 1988 - a Panasonic Dimension 4 Genius, and our same vintage Mistubishi TV. Fortunately my husband is a fix-it guy. Our stereo is 1970's vintage.)

New stuff? Cheaply made junk. But, the consumers got what they wanted - lower prices, and lots of 'shiny'.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Bought a freezer at Sears back in 1980, and it is still running well. It does not use that much more energy than a newer freezer that I can buy today.


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## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

SINC said:


> It's a new manufacturing process called "built-in obsolescence".
> 
> My parents fridge, bought in the 1950s is still happily cooling beer in my neighbours garage. Has been since I gave it to him in 1988.


Hmm... it'd be interesting to see how much electricity that fridge uses compared to a modern model.


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## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

I don't believe you can't buy quality stuff any more. It's just that people want to buy stuff today that matches the quality of stuff in the '50s, but they also don't want to pay more than they did in the '50s.

When costs go up, a company has two choices - raise their prices or make their products more cheaply. Consumers and their never-ending quest for a "good deal" demanded they keep their prices the same - so guess what happened?

But that doesn't mean the good stuff isn't there - you just have to pay for it. You want a fridge that lasts? Then spend a couple thousand dollars on a good brand. You want a small kitchen appliance? Buy a KitchenAid instead of the cheap store brand. Good quality tool? Stabila, Bosch, Porter Cable instead of Black and Decker.

Prices have gone up since the '50s and because as more people opt for the cheap crap, economies of scale have worked against the quality producer - so their prices had to go up even more than the rate of inflation. But the only way to fix this is to keep buying the quality product.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

My kitchen has a Sub-Zero refrigerator that has been chugging along nicely for 20 years. Good stuff does cost a lot of money, but you also have to appreciate the aesthetics of what you're buying if you are going to use it for decades. If you want the latest colour or patina, better to buy crap.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

My brother in law has an old Electrolux vacuum that works every bit as well as a new one. I've always wanted to get one myself but never quite got past the planning stage. I wonder if we can expect the same type of longevity in newer Electrolux or Miele vacuum cleaners. Dysons don't last that long apparently, five to ten years.

My condo is still chugging along on an original refrigerator (Kenmore) and dishwasher (KitchenAid) from when it was built in 1975.

What about Bosch appliances? I would expect them to last quite awhile, you pay for it though.


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## ScanMan (Sep 11, 2007)

Macfury said:


> IKEA sells a line composed almsot exclusively of junk...


 How true.


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## shoe (Apr 6, 2005)

this hread reminds me of the Big Box Mart jib jab video alot of truth in this video...

Big Box Mart | Funny Video Animation by JibJab


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

ScanMan said:


> How true.


That's funny!


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

hayesk said:


> But that doesn't mean the good stuff isn't there - you just have to pay for it. You want a fridge that lasts? Then spend a couple thousand dollars on a good brand. You want a small kitchen appliance? Buy a KitchenAid instead of the cheap store brand. Good quality tool? Stabila, Bosch, Porter Cable instead of Black and Decker.


That is just BS. Our last fridge was a KitchenAid 23 cu ft. that we paid $2,500 for and it died in seven short years.

During that seven years, the crisper drawer holder cracked and it cost $300 for the part to replace it. As well the gasket around the freezer door failed and it was $290 installed to repair it.

KitchenAid is a POS and we will never buy another, so much for your theory.


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

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## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

Macfury said:


> My kitchen has a Sub-Zero refrigerator that has been chugging along nicely for 20 years. Good stuff does cost a lot of money, but you also have to appreciate the aesthetics of what you're buying if you are going to use it for decades. If you want the latest colour or patina, better to buy crap.


Very true - good things cost a lot.

I've recently ordered a new Liebherr fridge and AEG dishwasher, as the fridge I have now is far too small, and the dishwasher is extremely loud.

Hopefully the new appliances will last a while... the compressor, etc on the fridge is warranted for 12 years, so we'll see.

Unfortunately, the only way we'll see quality increase is if manufacturing is moved back to Canada/US, and prices increase to account for better quality products. Nothing of quality that I've ever owned has come out of China.


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## ErnstNL (Apr 12, 2003)

Quality can be built in to a thing, but when one of its many essential parts is a failure, we can label the whole thing as a POs, as Toyota has found out at great cost. Would I label a Corolla a lemon? Not really.
I have repaired lamps and replaced thermostats in refrigerators. 

I have replaced my electric water tank every 4 to 5 years because in Newfoundland, that's how long they last. The manufacturer warranty on a "5 year " tank lowers to 3 years in Newfoundland. bah...sacrificial anode lasts about a year or 2 and then poof... start the corrosion.
I thought about buying one of those stainless steel 20 year tanks from Europe, but I didn't want to spend $1000 on a tank that might last less than 10 years.

So how can a manufacturer cover all the eventualities of a failure? I think it's just too darn hard and there you go: We get junk.


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## Manatus (May 11, 2009)

Part of the problem is that it's pretty expensive to get anything repaired (relatively). Most repairmen charge $100 or so just for a diagnostic, plus lots more if anything needs to be replaced. Yes, you may have a very high quality appliance, but if just one part needs to be looked at, that's probably almost the same as if you'd just bought cheap appliances more often. And then there's the danger that your 10 year old appliance won't even be easily repairable because everyone's so fixated on selling you new things that it gets harder to find someone willing and able to repair an old thing.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"I have replaced my electric water tank every 4 to 5 years because in Newfoundland, that's how long they last. The manufacturer warranty on a "5 year " tank lowers to 3 years in Newfoundland. bah...sacrificial anode lasts about a year or 2 and then poof... start the corrosion." I hear you, ErnstNL. Our water take from Sears went about 2 weeks after the 7 year warrenty was up. The new tank only has a 5 year warrenty now, since the installers say that is as long as they will last here in St.John's. Still, it is a high efficiency tank and works well.


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

To be fair all of the post 1980 cars I have owned were far superior mechanically as compared to the 50s and 60s Detroit Irons I drove in my youth. The drive trains on that era car was pretty much toast at 100,000 miles. Even the hated Caravan easily delivered over 200,000 miles with only minor repairs.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

MazterCBlazter said:


> Humans can no longer live in large houses made with good workmanship as a high percentage of the population. There are too many people, and not enough quality materials around anymore. Quality materials and real estate will continue to become ever rarer and harder to get commodities.


I disagree somewhat. Even if they could get the materials, they would choose the cheaper ugly stuff. I think the big factor is the cost of craftsmanship.




> Kitchen-Aid


Tried to replace some brushes in a Kitchen-Aid mixer. Normally a $2 part. Not sold separately in the model I have. You needed to buy a whole new motor for $119. Clearly you were not meant to WANT to service it.


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## imobile (Oct 6, 2007)

*Nuttin out of China Eh ?*



John Clay said:


> Very true - good things cost a lot.
> 
> I've recently ordered a new Liebherr fridge and AEG dishwasher, as the fridge I have now is far too small, and the dishwasher is extremely loud.
> 
> ...


You do not own a Mac?
or iPhone?
My old iMac , 8 years old , iBook 5years old were both made in renegade China ~ Taiwan. Both still working.
My newer intel iMacs came from Shanghai ( the 2006 I sold to friend when bought the 2008) have been flawless.
So much for the China bias!

I remember the days in early 1960's when we tossed aside Japanese tools and selected Aussie or English spanners as we restored the old 1937 Ford V8 ( bought one Ford from a wrecker for $50 as it had hit a telephone pole , another in a pub for $60 ). We even laughed at the early Japanese imports.
And of course in early nineties, Korea was the joke.
Check in again in 2020!

Oh and as for Canada...
land of the crappiest two prong plug ins ( powerpoints) and horrific WC parts.... lousy flappers ... lol!


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## imobile (Oct 6, 2007)

Macfury said:


> I disagree somewhat. Even if they could get the materials, they would choose the cheaper ugly stuff. I think the big factor is the cost of craftsmanship.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jeez. that is cheap!
My expensive bottom freezer AMANA fridge door ( cheap 'white' metal ) snapped off ... the cost of the handle ~ $108 plus tax ( I hate it how we have prices plus tax ) plus freight!
Went to Home Depot, bought a Rivet Tool .... Zap...three rivets ...not as elegant, but very serviceable plus have $70 left to put liquid refreshments in said fridge.
In meantime must work on muscle reduction ...though my tennis 'ripper' up the line shot will suffer!


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

I'll resist the temptation to add much to this apart from pointing out that my iPhone -- an original model -- has been a zero-maintenance, zero-problem device since I bought it. Made in China.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

My Mac Pro is the best made computer I have ever owned. I dare say that it will last a decade or more (obviously with hard drive replacements along the way). Here the planned obsolescence isn't because of poor quality, it is about the march of technological development.


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## simon (Nov 2, 2002)

screature said:


> My Mac Pro is the best made computer I have ever owned. I dare say that it will last a decade or more (obviously with hard drive replacements along the way). Here the planned obsolescence isn't because of poor quality, it is about the march of technological development.


I agree on the MacPro bit ... but I wasn't really complaining about the quality of technology because isn't there a Murphy's Law that covers that in 18 months something that's twice as fast for 1/2 the price will replace what you have?

My original observation is that here I have a desk lamp made 25 years ago that still works day in and day out (it's seems to be working again and still on the original bulb too). In those twenty-five odd years I have had countless other appliances and fixtures fail within days or months of light or regular use. 

Even when I pay more for quality, I don't seem to get what I paid for. When I buy a paint brush at the dollar store I expect it to fall apart after a few uses and start losing bristles. But when I go to Home Hardware and pay top dollar ($25 plus) for a top-of-the-line paint brush, I do expect it to last a little longer before it starts to flay out and lose bristles but they only seem to last me 2 - 3x longer than the cheap brush before this happens.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Don't get me started on paint brushes, with bristles pulled from the silky butt of some animal-or-other. They all go fast!


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

I still have a 25 year old 4" Purdy with nylon bristles which cost almost $30 in 1985. That brush has painted my house several times over and is now perfectly broken in. What's $30 1985 dollars in today's money? Seventy, eighty dollars? Who would pay that much for a paint brush in a box store...very few if anyone. So you get cheap disposable crap.

Planned obsolescence and disposable goods are not the same thing. Planned obsolescence has a time line...shoddy disposable goods are trow a ways. 

An automobile can be considered obsolete (or end of life cycle) when there are no more dealer parts available, but with cars and auto parts there is a huge world wide, new and used, parts network where the automotive time line extends beyond the end of life cycle to "classic" and "antique". While no one reconditions a "classic" 1957 GE fridge or stocks parts for it in a huge world wide network of private individuals, dealers, traders and small manufacturers.

A consumerist society constantly demands new and improved and the manufacturers oblige. But making and keeping parts for all those old models can cost millions in warehousing and inventory. Inventory is money tied up and not available. Machines that made certain parts may have been retooled or no longer exist, vendors which made these parts may no longer be in business. The older the product, the more they soak you for parts, provided they still have them. By the time you factor in labour, it may not be worth fixing a 30yr old washer.

I must have gone through 5 coffee makers in the last 2 years...all crap, all disposable...not worth the effort or cost to fix. Now I just buy the cheapest and if it goes...it goes to the dump.

Not so many years ago, you couldn't install glass tile or marble or slate because you needed a $2000 wet saw with a diamond blade to cut the stuff. So you payed for a pro.
Today you can buy a diamond wet saw for less than the replacement cost of the blade alone. If the saw lasts only to do the job, you saved thousands. When the blade or the motor is done, you toss it.

That's where we're at, cheap stuff that does the job, but does not last. Keeps everyone happy. lol


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Macfury said:


> ...with bristles pulled from the silky butt of some animal-or-other.


Damn!  Is that where that bare patch on my butt came from...


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## MLeh (Dec 23, 2005)

simon said:


> My original observation is that here I have a desk lamp made 25 years ago that still works day in and day out (it's seems to be working again and still on the original bulb too). In those twenty-five odd years I have had countless other appliances and fixtures fail within days or months of light or regular use.


My husband has a lit magnifying lamp over his workbench (uses it for soldering IC's, etc). The lamp must be 40 years old. A couple of years ago the switch went away on the lamp. So he looked for a replacement switch. Couldn't find one. So he looked for a replacement lamp. Couldn't find one of the same quality.

We came to the conclusion that the company that made the original product probably went out of business because their products were _too_ good.

Anyway, to make a long story longer - he eventually found another switch what would work, but he had to do some modifications to the housing for it to hold it. But, eventually he got it installed and is now again happily using his old lamp.

A lot of my complaints with stuff you buy today isn't always that it's poorly manufactured, but that it is poorly designed or engineered. Just paying 'more' for something isn't a guarantee that it is going to be well engineered. Fit and finish, the way pieces interlock - it all has to do with how well it will perform and the amount of wear you'll get out of it before one of those pieces fails rendering the entire unit useless.

But the attitude of the 'disposable society' is not one that either my husband or I have ever embraced. (Use it up, wear it out, make it do , or do without.)


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

FeXL said:


> Damn!  Is that where that bare patch on my butt came from...


Your _silky_ butt?


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## fellfromtree (May 18, 2005)

kps said:


> While no one reconditions a "classic" 1957 GE fridge


There are several appliance restoration outfits in the US.
Antique Vintage Appliances - Antique Refrigerators - Antique Stoves

While everyone has an anecdotal example of something they have that was built to last, there is a crapload of stuff that expired along the way. Even things that could have lasted have been discarded because they don't last aesthetically or stylistically.

The documentary Objectified is worth watching. They discuss the difference today as compared to the (recent) past, where everything from source to disposal has to be determined in the design of a product today, considerations that were not applicable to designers or products in the past.

Here's a comparison. A 2009 Malibu, or 1959 Bel Air? 





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

fellfromtree said:


> Here's a comparison. A 2009 Malibu, or 1959 Bel Air?


On aesthetics alone, the BelAir, thanks. And I can fix it easily too!

It grieves me to see it hammered like that!


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Macfury said:


> Your _silky_ butt?


'Course! Don't you use conditioner?


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## chasMac (Jul 29, 2008)

Macfury said:


> And I can fix it easily too!


Yeah! You could fix it after a collision. Oh wait ...


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Macfury said:


> On aesthetics alone, the BelAir, thanks. And I can fix it easily too!
> 
> It grieves me to see it hammered like that!


First wheels was a '59 Impala, very similar to the BelAir. 235 CID straight 6 (complete with collapsed piston) and a Powerglide.

Sad, indeed...


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

After thinking about this video, I realized I was watching a brand new car supposedly trouncing a vehicle that has plied the road for 50 years. Talk about unfair! As one YouTuber notes, you can see rust flying out of the Bel Air (which was not, by any means, the most tank-like of the older cars).


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Yep, a 57 Buick for example might have been a very different outcome.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I had a collision in the late 1990s driving a 1984 Chev Caprice--T-boned someone going through a red light. Their car was one huge crumple zone (some current Japanese mid-size model of the time). I lost a couple of minor pieces of trim.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Well the thread is about reliability... on that front alone most modern cars are far more reliable than their older counterparts.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I would say that my cars have always been more or less reliable, only now its much harder to fix them on my own whenthey break.


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

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## fellfromtree (May 18, 2005)

A drive along the transcanada highway is a quick reminder about the reliability of cars now and past. The highway is littered with remnants of old gas stations and motels, and they have not been replaced by new gas stations. Having spent my childhood traversing the north shores of the great lakes in the back of a volkswagen, I remember pulling into these gas stations, with their tire racks full of replacement tires, pyramids of oil cans, and the high walls of the garage covered in belts and hoses, the double lift bays with cars waiting for emergency repairs. The nearby strip motel for when they had to get a part delivered the next day (which didn't apply to a volkswagen).


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## SoyMac (Apr 16, 2005)

*Quality*

There are many products I can count on for continued high quality.

Off the top of my head;

*Swiss Army knife. 
*- As a gift, I once received a "non-SwissArmy" knife. The blade fell off the very first time I opened it.

*Anything bought at Mountain Equipment Co-op 
*- Great products and even better warranty service.

*Bosch tools.
*- Amazing quality.

*PricePfister faucets.
*- I once tried to re-install a faucet moved from another building. I lost a part and called PricePfister (toll-free), just to order the part. 
They took my address, and shipped an entire replacement faucet set, free of charge, including no charge for the shipping.
- I installed cheap faucets in an apartment once. I had to replace all the faucets in less than a year.

*Fiskar garden tools.
*Wow.

*My Apple computers.
*- Sermon, meet choir.


My list of crap products:
Anything made of fibreboard. 
-Fragile, it will break, and it is made of toxic chemicals.
I am making more and more of my own real-wood furniture.

MDF products
- Fragile, easily damaged by water, and again, toxins.
I no longer install MDF trim. I buy real wood trim, and sometimes design and make my own trim. 
It's more expensive, and sometimes I have to wait and save money before a I can afford to finish a project.

No-Name, bulk batteries
- They last just long enough for me to get to a store to buy real batteries.


Until I learned my lesson, I _spent_ an awful lot of money by "saving" money on cheap products, but then repeatedly replacing these "cheaper" products.

Quality has a price, and I've found that it's worth that price.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

fellfromtree said:


> A drive along the transcanada highway is a quick reminder about the reliability of cars now and past. The highway is littered with remnants of old gas stations and motels, and they have not been replaced by new gas stations. Having spent my childhood traversing the north shores of the great lakes in the back of a volkswagen, I remember pulling into these gas stations, with their tire racks full of replacement tires, pyramids of oil cans, and the high walls of the garage covered in belts and hoses, the double lift bays with cars waiting for emergency repairs. The nearby strip motel for when they had to get a part delivered the next day (which didn't apply to a volkswagen).


Excellent points fellfromtree.! In his regard, times certainly have changed and IMHO for the better.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

screature said:


> Excellent points fellfromtree.! In his regard, times certainly have changed and IMHO for the better.


While fellfromtree's points are well taken as you note, there is one other aspect to note and that is today's modern car driver's abilities have not necessarily translated into better drivers.

When one had to sit in a moderately uncomfortable seat, without a seat belt and learn the feel of the road and the nuances of the vehicle without the aid of power steering or brakes, while using the gearbox to compensate for certain things lacking, one became quite skilled as a driver and could quickly adapt to any car or truck.

With today's extreme comfort, instant power, power assisted everything, things are pretty much the same in any vehicle class, ie Honda/Toyota/Suzuki vs BMW/Mercedes/Lexus.

I see many drivers out there so unskilled it scares me at times.

The stupid and just plain dangerous things today's drivers do around trucks and when I am wheeling 50 feet and 11 tons of motor home down the road, is astounding. They have no sense of road feel, because they "have no road feel" as one still does in a big rig.


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## KC4 (Feb 2, 2009)

*KitchenAid rant*

The Appliance Technician just left my house after checking out my 5.5 year old KitchenAid fridge. It's been intermittently freezing produce in the drawers and if I set the overall temp controls any lower than a 4 out of 10, the milk goes sour in days. Ack!

This is the third technician to attend to this problem. The first and second were the same guy...he cleaned the condenser coil and said that would fix it. It didn't. Next visit he said that the control board was probably bad, but was sorry to advise that even though the fridge was not that old, KitchenAid did not make the part anymore. (Built in obsolescence anyone?) 

My landlord wasn't keen on replacing this big fridge so soon in its short life, and managed to find a different appliance place that did have access to one remaining control board. They'd replace it, but not warranty it because no other parts would be available.

So they ordered the part and sent the tech. His notes: Went through tests - all functions OK. Opened up evap area - Everything looks great. Advised cust on proper settings for using crisper drawers as stated in owners manual." 

So basically, according to this technician, the intermittent freezing is caused by not setting the drawer HUMIDITY control properly, and not storing the proper produce in each drawer. 

When I said, "OK, I can see how a proper humidity setting can make your produce last longer, but I don't understand how a humidity setting can cause or correct freezing." that was when he replied, "That's what the owner's manual is for." 
(uhh,nice)..... 
"If you trap the cold in there, what do you think is going to happen." (That was a rhetorical question, right?) 

Seriously.

Then he opens the Owners's Manual (which I had out and ready for him) to "Crisper Humidity Control" and points it out to me so I may read it. 

Really.

Funny, the instructions say "Adjust the control to any setting between LOW and HIGH." I can attest that without even looking at what they were set at, I was following those directions precisely. It offers no warning or advice, nothing at all, about freezing.

Next, I admit it. I had carrots and celery in the bin marked "Meat". (Oh, the humidity!) I also had leafy vegetables mixed in with "vegetables with skin" in another drawer. Tsk!... I must quickly sort my produce out in accordance to the laws of KitchenAid. 

Somehow, the gods of KitchenAid smiled indulgently upon my errant sorting and wanton misconduct with the humidity controls in the first year or so I used this fridge and didn't freeze anything I didn't want frozen, but those days are over it seems. 

Or perhaps, my fridge is now bi-polar...that would explain the intermittent nature of the freezing. It is beside by side itself with dysfunction.

Replacement parts were brought to visit, but they left with the technician as none were installed. I apparently have 30 days to test the fridge to see if correcting my aberrant ways of abusing this fine appliance will alleviate my er, problem. If not, I'm to give them another call. 

Gee, I can hardly wait to spend another morning waiting for Trail Appliances to arrive and tell me how to RTFM, for which, it will cost my poor landlords another wasted $119.64. 

Yes, I will behave with the settings and the sorting, but if anybody really believes that is going to solve the problem, I know of some swampland in Louisiana that they might be interested in buying.

As you can tell, I am totally frosted with this appliance (and the repair techs)
Just venting. 
Done.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

My Sears Kenmore fridge is still going after over 20 years, the Sears chest freezer is going after 20 years, and I have an old GE clock radio bought in 1974 that is still working fine.


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## MACenstein'sMonster (Aug 21, 2008)

Quality:

*In-Step* bike trailer.

3 kids later and I've only replaced the wheel bearings once.

Have made many tours of the city while hauling as many as 2 kids and sometimes a small bike hanging off the back. Now it's used for hauling soccer equipment that I use when coaching my youngest's team. My youngest child still gets the occasional ride but ever since taking the training wheels off her 2 wheeler not so much.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Our Eaton's Viking thin wall chest freezer, purchased new in Kenora, Ontario in 1978 still works great, even after four moves.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

Quality: a bit specialized, perhaps, but... I'm a big fan of the Godin family of stringed instruments - fantastic bang for the buck. Superb fit and finish, a large variety of styles and purposes ranging from jazzbo to shredder metalist. A pretty comprehensive set of subsidiary companies, too - Simon and Patrick, Norman, Godin, Art & Lutherie, Richmond, Seagull - each specializing on their own particular take on the guitar (some fairly exotic stringed instruments in the mix, too). It's a proudly Canadian company, very passionate and innovative, headed up by a tireless man who really digs what he does. Some of the lines are assembled in New Hampshire but most of the woods for their electric and acoustic lines are crafted in a series of Quebec-based shops. _Vive la difference!_


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

A couple of years ago on Don's recommendation, I bought a Weber Q-100 BBQ.

Nice cast build, cast iron grill, drips drop into a pan rather than flaming up to sear the meat. It is clearly designed and built to last and I do expect it to be my last BBQ purchase.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

My Weber is seeing yeomen service over the weekend, cooking for a dozen folks.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Always loved a Hibachi


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