# Something wicked this ways comes......again.



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Just caught it on CNN and had a look - YESTERDAY the Atlantic was clear......today there are two or THREE potential "named storms" brewing about 7 days out. 

http://www.goes.noaa.gov/HURRLOOPS/huirloop.html

Look particularly at the one on the right - definitely organizing.

The one just north of Cuba is quite disorganized but then .....so was Katrina early on.
The Mid-Atlantic is small but definitely showing rotation.










for reference here is where Katrina fired up.










and Rita










Wonder if Cuba has a secret hurricane factory.....


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## comprehab (May 28, 2005)

Yikes!


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## markceltic (Jun 4, 2005)

With a title like that I thought you were about to launch into another one of your diatribes about Bush & his neo-con cronies  . On a more serious note this just sucks or blows, whichever.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

BTW it's the three across the Atlantic midline that are of concern. The one up north is moving away.


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## adagio (Aug 23, 2002)

According to the Hurricane Centre it's that depression just north of Dominican Republic that has some interest.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Yes that's exactly where the other two monsters launched from.
The other two are more distant threats.

••••

BTW on Bush....he's doing a FINE job.........disaffecting some 60% of his fellow Americans.  'Bout time the wake up call came. 
No need to state the obvious.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> Three of the four predictors are above-average for storms. Therefore, we are calling for a very active October with an NTC of about 200 percent of the climatological average. In round numbers, we are forecasting 3 named storms, 2 hurricanes, 1 intense hurricane and an NTC of 35 for October.


200%....that''s even higher than the 175% overall for the season......stay tuned.


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## DEWLine (Sep 24, 2005)

Unnerving to say the least. :-(


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Only because U.S. healthcare policies kill far more people than hurricanes ever will...



markceltic said:


> With a title like that I thought you were about to launch into another one of your diatribes about Bush & his neo-con cronies  . On a more serious note this just sucks or blows, whichever.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Something brewing south of Cuba - Dominican Republic as someone mentioned.










The Atlantic is clear otherwise except for the eastern region to the south off the African coast tho the tropical storm centre is not reporting it.


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

*Thirty Helens Agree*

Slam away, Sir Lawton...


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

Brilliant article. I particularly like:

"There are a group of people in various parts of the world ... who simply don't want to accept human activities can change climate and are changing the climate. I'd liken them to the people who denied that smoking causes lung cancer."


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> Tropical System Develops in Caribbean Sea; May Become Hurricane
> Sept. 28 (Bloomberg) -- A tropical storm system is developing in the Caribbean Sea and has the potential to develop into another hurricane.
> 
> The so-called tropical wave, a weather system that develops off the coast of Africa during hurricane season, is near Jamaica and the Cayman Islands, hurricane center meteorologist Robbie Berg said. The system is the ``seedlings of what becomes a hurricane,'' Berg said.
> ...












Still disorganized but......


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Tropical storms...especially in the southern Atlantic or the Caribbean...come in cycles. Five or ten or twenty year cycles. It all has to do with the surface temperatre of the water in any given area.

I worked offshore in the late seventies in that area and we had some WICKED storms! The guys were freaking out because they'd never seen anything like them before. LOTS of forced evacuations and damage.

Many experts claimed that we were in a "cycle of escalating destruction and more forceful weather events" at the time...

Then, things settled down for about a decade and a half. All we got was wind and some heavy rain. And the odd waterspout. Nothing of consequence.

The loud freakout weenies got suddenly quiet...and then worked out their remaining years and retired. Quiety. Without another thought about it.

Some of the new guys came onstream during this lesser period and rode these milder blows out said they'd "seen the worst that nature could offer"

Yeahhhh...RIGHT!  

Nowadays we are back into a stronger set of weather patterns. And the people who haven't ever experienced the worst from a generation ago are currently freaking out and saying...rather loudly..that they "Have NEVER SEEN anything like this before!!" 

No kidding. Big surprise.

Fifty years ago the storms were vastly worse...but there were no cameras to record them. Two hundred years ago whole coastside settlements were wiped out...but, again...no cameras were there to record the disaster...

Lord only knows WHAT it was like two hundred years ago. During the periods of high storm activity. But it was pobably worse. MUCH worse. Too bad we will never know....

Four hundred years ago? Two thousand years ago?? Ten thousand years ago??

We have a pretty good idea from the geological record that there were some VERY wild weather events happening back then. But there were no people around at that particular time who would stand before the camera lens and say "I've NEVER seen ANYTHING like THIS Before!!"

No cars..no factories...no atomic powerplants...no freon spewing refrigerators....no massive trash dumps.

But the weather got WILD! Just the same!

This is the nature of this planet.

Ho hum. Life goes on. Get used to it.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

There are excellent film and photograpgh records of the gulf area storms that stretch back 100 years. In the ealy part of the 20th century, Galvaston Tx was devastated by a hurricane. They were not prepared. The weather does come in periodic cycles but the current activity is being exacerbated by atypical gulf temperatures. As a consequence, synergistic forces have lead to storms and damage that are unprecedented in recent gulf history (say 150 years). The question is whether we are still on the upswing, whether the trends are accelerating or whether the trend will top out.

Of course, we know that in the distant past there were catastophic climate changes (such as the 10,000 year ice age cycle). It carved our landscape. However, these changes occurred slowly. It is true that when you're experiencing unsual weather, it could be a local, periodic fluctuation or it could be a harbinger for a more basic trend. The scientists are split on this.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

the big difference is the planet is more populated
and it appears that temp. in the Gulf are higher than the "cyclical" trend would predict and the frequency of hurricanes is up

someone posted a bar graph and although the bar for this decade (2000-2004) was less than 1/2 of a spike 20 odd years ago, the data only accounted for less than 1/2 of the decade

and macnutt doesn't believe smoking is bad for his health either


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

There is also simply no question whatsoever that the rise in Cat 4 and 5 storm frequency tracks ocean warming trends.

Bottom line - it does not matter in the least whether a long term cycle in the ocean/atmosphere is reinforcing or dampening the level of storm power - the next 20 -30 years will see increasing levels of Cat 4 and 5 storms as it has steadily over the past 30 years.

Total storms are not increasing nor are AVERAGE wind speeds.....what it undeniable is the increase in the number of top level storms....like Katrina and Rita.


> By itself, a doubling of CO2 (which, incidentally, accounts for some 10 to 25 percent of the natural greenhouse effect, not 1 percent) would warm earth by less than 2 degrees F. But therein lies the power of positive feedback. A 2-degree rise in temperature would cause more water to evaporate from the oceans and thus contribute additional water vapor to the greenhouse effect, resulting in a final warming most climatologists project to be a little less than 4 degrees. But if the complicating ice and cloud feedbacks are added in, models suggest that anywhere from 3 to 9 degrees of warming would result from a doubling in CO2 levels. Scientists cannot make more accurate predictions at the moment because of uncertainties surrounding the feedback processes, yet most think the upper limit represents ecological disaster


The Gulf Stream is slowing, the ice is melting at both poles, migration patterns are changing incredibly fast in oceans and on land......in a blink of a geological eye.....

MIT has a good assessment - of course they're just flakes.....tree huggers......

http://cache.technologyreview.com/articles/97/01/ehrlich0197.3.asp

••••

As to tracking earlier storms - 



> Analysis of storm deposits recovered from Strathmere, New Jersey, provides *a 700-year record of historic and prehistoric intense storms striking the New Jersey coast.* Intense hurricanes typically result in storm surge of more than 10 feet above normal tides. Given the extremely low elevation of many of the heavily developed barrier islands on the New Jersey coast, the next intense hurricane strike will likely result in extreme damage to property. Due to a lack of public awareness, insufficient time to warn the population, and inadequate evacuation routes, significant loss of life may occur as well.


With the increase in 4 and 5 level storms the risk for other heavily populated and completely unprepared areas is heightened and the East Coast of the US is overdue statistically for a major hurricane.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1485723/posts

These must be seriously stupid people in New York to actually PREPARE for hurricanes......I mean really.....



> To get a sense of the damage that storm surge can do to New York City, call 311 and ask them to send you a full-color copy of the New York City Hurricane Evacuation Map. It is a truly mind-boggling document. If a storm like the Long Island Express makes a direct hit on the city, everything below Broome Street will be inundated, some parts under as much as 20 and 30 feet of water. Chelsea and Greenwich Village are completely flooded, with the Hudson spilling over all the way to 7th Avenue. Likewise, the East River and East Village become one, with ocean water surging all the way to 1st Avenue. If you haven't evacuated before the storm, forget it. During the storm, Manhattan's east- and west-side highways vanish. Tunnels and bridges become unusable.
> 
> The outer boroughs also get hit hard. Opposed to that new Ikea being built on the waterfront in Red Hook? Don't worry. There's a decent chance it won't be there after a moderate-size hurricane. Residents of Williamsburg-Greenpoint should seek out a male and female of each species and get in their arks. In a kind of one-two-punch effect, a major hurricane will push ocean water down from the Long Island Sound into the Upper East Side, South Bronx and northern Queens, flooding those areas severely. Vast stretches of southern Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island will be devastated. The map shows Atlantic Ocean storm surge reaching as far inland as Flatbush, just south of Prospect Park, with 31.3 feet of water atop Howard Beach.
> 
> ...


Why is New York so vulnerable



> New York City's biggest vulnerability is the most unyielding—geology. The New York bight is the right angle formed by Long Island and New Jersey with the city tucked into its apex. "Hurricanes do not like right angles," Lee says. "[They allow] water to accumulate and pile up."
> 
> Couple this with the fact that New York resides on a very shallow continental shelf, and as a big storm pushes north, New York Harbor "acts as a funnel." As storm surge forces its way into the harbor and up the rivers, it has nowhere to go but onto land. New York City, it turns out, has some of the highest storm-surge values in the country. "When we see a category-3 storm making landfall in Florida, it may only have a 12-, 13-foot storm surge," Lee says. "For us here,* a category-1 storm can give us 12 feet of storm surge."*


Just the devastation in Halifax is cautionary. More of the Cat 4 and 5 storms and rising water levels plus much greater coastal development.........  ...... bodes ill.


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

used to be jwoodget said:


> Of course, we know that in the distant past there were catastophic climate changes (such as the 10,000 year ice age cycle). It carved our landscape. However, these changes occurred slowly. It is true that when you're experiencing unsual weather, it could be a local, periodic fluctuation or it could be a harbinger for a more basic trend. The scientists are split on this.


I have a now decades-old memory of a geography prof arguing--and he was adamant that this was only a hypothesis--that regardless of what triggers a glacial period (unknown), once triggered it could build momentum very quickly. A couple of years of substantial 12-month snow cover as far south as the 60th parallel (and comparable cooling at the antipodes), and rapid buildup and advance of glaciers could follow. 

Another thing I remember is that based on the pattern of advance and retreat of glaciers over the past two million years, we should expect a new ice age "any day now" in geological terms. Could be decades, centuries, or millennia away, nobody knows for sure, but it's almost certainly coming.

So, anyone know how far out-to-lunch my profs were in the 80s?


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

iMatt latest major insight is the ocean circulation tipping point. If enough fresh water gets into the Atlantic quickly it slows the circulation and climate change can be very abrupt if it actually stops.
http://www.whoi.edu/institutes/occi/currenttopics/abruptclimate_joyce_oped.html

It's a key finding and one of the emerging thoughts is that the Hudson Bay area was fresh water damned up by ice that suddenly collapsed and released enormous amounts of fresh water into the north Atlantic and that triggered another smaller ice age until the circulation resumed.

A huge volcano erupting in say Greenland could provide a combination of dust and glacial melt to trigger a similar event and if say the the Gulf Stream did stop suddenly ( it's slowing ) the climate impact would be enormous.
But it's such a complex system that the "tipping points" and what they portend are hard to discern.
But WE are an impact as well and the Gulf Stream IS slowing.

There was a terrific program on the other night about glacial damning in the Western US where grand Canyon scale erosion and landscape features.....were created in days.
Fascinating story.

This guy was ostracised for years as he postulated the "created in days" theory of that particular area









Terrific pictures of the landscape features here
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/megaflood/scablands.html










http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/3211_megafloo.html

Big things CAN happen quickly.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

We're now up to the Ts



> *Tropical Storm Tammy hits northern Florida*
> 
> MIAMI, Oct. 5 (UPI) -- Tropical Storm Tammy, the 19th named storm of the Atlantic hurricane season, moved inland Wednesday evening, lashing northern Florida and southern Georgia.
> 
> ...


One very soggy US South and *8 weeks to go* 

Hmmmm ...must ...not...make...sarcastic .....comment about red states.........urk urk


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

MacDoc, when are you going to stop posting these tropical storm pics and provide us with URLs of peaceful and beautiful spots in which to live, like Salt Spring Island? There, everyone is having fun and enjoying the good life, and in all the places you post people are facing the reality/possibility of losing everything. Be as MacNutt, and be one with the world, at peace with the world....... Paix, mon ami.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

The irony is just too much fun.  Besides, Cuba needs rain.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Well, send Cuba some rain, and let us all wish we were in Salt Spring Island, Canada's paradise.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Hmmph ...trolling again......something about "fishing" must catching in your environs


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

MacDoc said:


> Hmmph ...trolling again......something about "fishing" must catching in your environs


that would be "phishing"


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Up to the Ws  5 weeks to go. Cat 3 projected too, no wimp this one.



> Oct. 18, 2005. 11:48 AM
> 
> *Wilma upgraded to hurricane*
> JOHN PAIN
> ...


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Ohh my - try Cat 5 and the most intense ever recorded...and it's late October!!!!! 



> Wilma now most intense Atlantic hurricane in history
> By FREDDY CUEVAS
> Wednesday, October 19, 2005 Posted at 8:46 AM EDT
> Associated Press
> ...


Woo this is nasty - just talked to a friend in Florida.
That track could wander anywhere from S Florida to Lousiana


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Wow, that is some storm and bad news for gas prices if it gets near the gulf coast oil refineries, as gas here dropped to 87.4 cents yesterday.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> Already, as a precaution, officials have ordered visitors out of the Florida Keys in the first U.S. evacuations caused by the Category 5 storm.
> 
> Storm-weary Floridians kept an anxious eye on Wilma as it grew Wednesday, with forecasters warning of a significant threat to the state by the weekend. The storm, which also menaced Cuba and Central America, had winds of more than 280 kilometres an hour.
> 
> ...


Tracking is not expected to swing into the western gulf but BOTH coasts of Florida and the east coast north...can't recall this kind of track.

The most rapid spin up ever recorded. ........


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

*Fixed Image Tag*

Look at that nasty projected path....I saw Discovery special on the devastation the rain caused in S Carolina, I think it was Hugo - this could sure dump a lot of water on the East coast and it may track up the Gulf Stream so it's power could stay high.
One town with a 30 FOOT levy still had water 10' above the levy top....... 

That's also a nasty path righ about Miami level across southern Florida.
Cuba is not going to escape either tho I find that "curve" around the Cuban main Island at "ironic"....Mother Nature's commentary.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Noticed the missing "i" in the command line in Macdoc's post, so here is the map:


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Space photos


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Just was listening on CNN to Max Mayfield, the nation's chief hurricane forecaster at NOAA, who has the latest on Hurricane Wilma. There is one forecast model used by the US Navy that has Wilma going over southern Florida and then "by passing all landfalls as it travels up the North Atlantic". However, I saw his map and yes, the hurricane bypasses Nova Scotia...............but hits eastern NL. I know that many Canadian school children (and adults) do not include us on a map of Canada, and many Americans think we are part of Greenland................but I thought that at least we were part of the Northern Hemisphere in the eyes of NOAA. It should only bring us heavy rains here in St.John's, but that is if we are still here and have not become invisible. We shall see.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Yes that's a worrisome path as it will dump a ton of rain but not lose much power.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Wilma looks almost stationary. This makes the projected tracking very, very inaccurate. Let's hope she burns out over sea.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> BULLETIN
> HURRICANE WILMA ADVISORY NUMBER 18
> NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
> 5 PM EDT WED OCT 19 2005
> ...


About 3 hours ago it was moving WNW at 7 kph... yep very slow forward movement but with no landfall and lots of hot ocean there is no reason for a major decrease in power - I suspect it's meeting the air mass that is going to deflect it back towards the east.

If that happens further south that may mean it might miss Florida but Cuba will get the brunt and it may drift out further over the Atlantic away from the east coast. :clap:
Certainly there must be some confidence in the track to issue an evacuation for the Keys tho 

This is a nice clear map


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Mayfield of NOAA said that their most advanced computer-generated models at Princeton have it in a nearly stationary, slow moving course. However, all of their other models have it going over the south of Florida and quickly moving up the Atlantic...................right for St.John's. We shall see.

It is interesting that there is such diversity in the tracking of hurricanes these days, in that in the interview with Mayfield, he kept using qualifiers and not wanting to make definitive statements.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

If it moves into the open Atlantic, I sincerely hope it bypasses St. John's, Dr. G.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sinc, using the US Navy charted path, the eye comes directly over our fair city. Hopefully, the cooler North Atlantic shall save us from the wrath of the hurricane. Juan, which pounded Nova Scotia, dumped a load of rain upon us, and other that some flooded basements, no major damage. We shall see.


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## Digital_Gary (Sep 18, 2003)

It is looking like my honneymoon destination is about to be wiped off the map 

Hopefully the damage isn't to extensive and all the nice people I met down there are okay.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Live ( sort of ) WebCam from Cozumel where the eye wall is just hitting

http://www.cozumel.net/weather/


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

We are actually preparing for Wilma coming over us here in St.John's next week. A storm surge could swamp Water Street, North America's oldest street in NA's oldest city, in that it is only 5 feet above sea level. Where I am sitting is about 300 feet above sea level, but I was talking with someone who works with the City of St.John's in the Public Works Dept. and they are watching.............and waiting. Juan pounded Halifax and we don't want to have to go through what they went through back then.


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## Digital_Gary (Sep 18, 2003)

MacDoc said:


> Live ( sort of ) WebCam from Cozumel where the eye wall is just hitting
> 
> http://www.cozumel.net/weather/



Where we stayed was just south of Cozumel on the main land. 
We were in the Villa on the far left, closest to the water. It is going to be SCREWED!


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Talk about dead aim. Damn eye is as big as the whole island. 










Yes folks that's a real photo just colour enhanced for clarity.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

DG, how high above sea level are those buildings at the rear of this complex?


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## Digital_Gary (Sep 18, 2003)

My villa was maybe 15'-20' above see level. The first floor (maybe the second) of that villa will be under water.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

That photo updates  right dead on and the back eyewall will be the worst. 



> The eyewall of Hurricane Wilma crashed into Cozumel along Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula today and was expected to strike close to Cancún, posing a dire threat to those tourist areas.
> 
> Powerful squalls and hurricane conditions swept portions of the Yucatan and worse weather was on the way -- slowly. Thousands of residents and stranded tourists sought safety in public shelters and hotel ballrooms.
> 
> ...


 ....oh my

••••

Live reports and some video on CNN

Nasty track on this forecast


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

MacDoc, extend the line in that map a bit further................and you hit St.John's.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

If that track holds it's right up the Gulf Stream which could keep the storm very well fueled.

But it's a very random storm. 

It might just churn round and round the gulf wreaking havoc.......5 weeks left......

The reports said the storm is widening with hurricane winds 85 miles out from the eye.
Not only nasty.....but BIG too.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

The Gulf Stream and the Labrador Current meet about 10 km from where I am sitting. We shall see which way the storm tracks.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Early photo of damage in Cancun - I would think Cozumel will be absolutely devastated.
At least an 11' storm surge ;(


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Not over yet.........Alpha about to make the record books



> CNN) -- Tropical Depression 25, swirling in the eastern Caribbean, is expected to evolve into Tropical Storm Alpha Saturday afternoon, setting a new record for the number of named storms in a single Atlantic hurricane season, according to the National Hurricane Center.
> 
> An NHC advisory issued Saturday said the storm is likely to move northward over Hispaniola Sunday, delivering heavy rains, potential flooding and mudslides, before moving over the Turks and Caicos on northeastern path into the Atlantic where it would likely dissipate.
> 
> ...


No real threat further west tho the Bahamas could get hit....my my 5 weeks to go. I would hope at least Cuba's reservoirs are getting refilled if all this activity can have some silver lining.

•••••

That's a long time for a big storm to hover over Cozumel and Cancun


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

David, let's see, Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, Epsilon, Zeta, Eta, Theta, Iota, Kappa, Lambda, Mu, Nu, Xi, Omicron, Pi, Rho, Sigma, Tau, Upsilon, Phi, Chi, Psi and Omega, if I remember correctly from living on Fraternity Row in Athens, Georgia.

God help North America if we start getting deeply into the Greek Alphabet. We shall see.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Beta in the making perhaps - bottom right.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Great shot of eastern North America. One really gets a sense of how far east we are here in St.John's, which is only 12km from Cape Spear, which is the furthest easterly point in North America.

http://hurricane.accuweather.com/hu...c=0&ocean=atlantic&storm=Wilma&imagetype=move


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Take a look at the map and read the article of the potential superstorm that could form and be headed right for St.John's.


http://headlines.accuweather.com/news-story.asp?article=6


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Dr.G. said:


> Take a look at the map and read the article of the potential superstorm that could form and be headed right for St.John's.
> 
> 
> http://headlines.accuweather.com/news-story.asp?article=6


That would put Halifax in the same path would it not?

If so not only are my Newfoundland friends, but also my eldest son who resides in Halifax, possibly in harms way. I sure hope not.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sinc, the eye of the hurricane would come right over St.John's.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Surely that far north, it would have weakened substantially by then would it not?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sinc, it all depends upon how cold the Gulf Stream is by that point. This is what caused Juan to hit Halifax so hard. We are somewhat protected here in St.John's in that the warm Gulf Stream meets the cold Labrador Current not far from where I am sitting. This moderate our winter and summer temps, and causes the fog, but also protects us from hurricanes.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Sinc northern storms are "fed" differently that tropical hurricanes thos I'm not pretending I can summarize the differences.
A good description of a November hurricane in 1913 on the Great Lakes is found here and he goes into the meteorology.

Most tropical hurricanes fall in the 950 millibar range and higher - this one hit 955 in the Great Lakes. 

Here's a cluster so you can see how powerful that Great Lakes storm was









http://www.crh.noaa.gov/dtx/stm_1913.htm

If a fast tracking storm comes up the Gulf Stream and collides with one or more other weather systems....all hell can break loose as it did in the Perfect Storm.



> Perfect storm
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
> Meteorological event
> 
> The phrase the perfect storm is also associated with a meteorological event in October 1991, when a powerful weather system gathered force, ravaging the Atlantic Ocean over the course of several days and caused the deaths of several Massachusetts-based fisherman and billions of dollars of damage. In this case, the merging of two low-pressure areas (areas associated with storms), a large flow of warm air from the south, cold air from the north, and moisture feeding into the storm from the warm ocean current (the Gulf stream) all combined with exceptionally strong northwesterly winds (cold air), and strong Northeasterly winds (warm air that moved up from the south spinning counter clockwise in typical low pressure behavior) created an exceptionally strong storm across a very large area. Had the storm been concentrated, it might have looked more like a hurricane. Without typical hurricane warnings, fisherman and smaller vessels at sea were caught in hurricane-like conditions.


Looking at that chart.....Wilma was right off it at 882 millibars.WOW!

Then there was this one in 1938
http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/mandias/38hurricane/
I saw a special on it and there was no warning.



> Facts of the 1938 Hurricane
> Peak Steady Winds - 121 mph
> Peak Gust - 186 mph at Blue Hill Observatory, MA.
> Lowest Pressure - 27.94 in (946.2 mb) at Bellport, NY
> ...


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Some images from Cancun - seems very little out of Cozumel which may be a bad sign.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Wilma....*The Flintstone Express*.......damn thing is moving at some 40 mph in the Gulf so the "nasty side" winds can be as high as 140 mph- it's also timing to hit at high tide - ouch.  Alpha is forming up as Part II of this deadly duo.

Still setting up to turn north along the East Coast ala the Long Island Express.

Interesting times indeed........and the White Sox leading the World Series.....

End of times perhaps  The omens gather........


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"End of times perhaps The omens gather........"

Actually, MacDoc, that is the Chicago Cubs winning the World Series. "I think you should know that when the Cubs next win the National League Championship, it will be the last pennant before Armageddon." (from W.P. Kinsella's short story "The Last Pennant Before Armageddon")


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

While we've been proccupied with the Gulf hurricanes (for good reason) this season has also seen the first recorded hurricane hit Spain. Last year, a hurricane (Catarina) hit parts of Brazil. First time a recorded Atlantic hurricane has hit South Amercia! In November, the cooling seas tend to reduce hurricane threats but the Gulf of Mexico is 1-3 degrees C higher than normal at this time of year - hence there may be an extended season. 

About 11000 BC, a rush of melting freshwater from Eastern Canada overwhelmed the gulfstream and plunged Europe into an ice age that lasted several hundred years....


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Yeah - don't get me started on the "Greenland threat". There is enough fresh water locked up there to raise sea levels 20' or more......and yes it's a net melt lately. 

Maybe we find out it's Greenland that holds the thermostat - it gets a tad toasty and it dumps enough fresh water to reverse the trend. 

Those increased hurricane numbers all pump heat north.....= Arctic melt.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

used to be jwoodget said:


> About 11000 BC, a rush of melting freshwater from Eastern Canada overwhelmed the gulfstream and plunged Europe into an ice age that lasted several hundred years....


Sure, Blame Canada. Again.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Wow the Keys are getting hammered.....up to 120 mph sustained and grinding on the length of Keys - Key West on the southern eyewall - the worst area.
The eye is 45 miles wide and still at 120 mph - lucky this didn't tighten up :eek!! That's gonna be a very broad storm surge right at high tide.

•••

Dr. G.....you gonna get wet.










..and windy. Nova Scotia even more so.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

MacDoc, thanks for the warning. We are prepared..........


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Well Dr. G you seem to have a double barrelled assault
Tropical storm Alpha appears to be merging with Wilma 












> by AccuWeather.com Sr. Meteorologist Jim Andrews
> STATE COLLEGE, PA (AccuWeather.com) -- The atmosphere as of Saturday holds potential for the development of a powerful storm off the Atlantic Seaboard of the United States early next week. While this would be true to some extent without the existence of Hurricane Wilma and the newly-dubbed Tropical Storm Alpha, which represent a great reservoir of tropical warmth and moisture, it only ratchets up the potential.


and more current



> Superstorm 2005 In Progress
> Monday, October 24, 2005
> I just left our on-floor forecast discussion with our top meteorologists and I can tell you that the Superstorm of 2005 is beginning. As predicted Saturday, the moisture from Wilma is combining with the storm system in the East. You can see the moisture areas combining already at left. We should see flooding rains again on the Northeast coast (sorry guys!), along with high winds gusting to 70 mph. Further inland, up to a foot of snow could fall through the spine of the Appalachians. Latest Info


http://wwwa.accuweather.com/adcbin/public/community_blog.asp


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

MacDoc, luckily, this is not wintertime. We had "weather bombs" which dumped over 5 feet of snow in a 9 day period six years ago.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

What was that Greek List????  Beta .....batter up.........










amazing



> SW CARIBBEAN S OF 15N W OF 75W
> 1130 AM EDT THU OCT 27 2005
> 
> ...TROPICAL STORM WARNING N OF 10.5N W OF 80W...
> ...*HURRICANE CONDITIONS EXPECTED *BETWEEN 11N AND 14N W OF 81W...


...and scary.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> Named storm No. 23, Beta, off Nicaragua
> 
> *Colombian island begins evacuations*
> 
> ...


Four weeks left


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Well we have not yet quite made it to Gamma tho it was close.
The deaths however continue.



> Tropical depression kills two in Caribbean
> KINGSTOWN, St. Vincent (AP) — Mudslides killed two fishermen and destroyed three homes as heavy rains brought by a tropical depression overflowed river banks and made roads impassable in St. Vincent and the Grenadines, emergency officials said Tuesday.
> 
> The center of the tropical depression is about 300 miles south of Puerto Rico.
> ...












Tornadoes in November!!!!!...and not just an isolated few. 



> Posted 11/14/2005 2:36 PM Updated 11/14/2005 3:22 PM
> 
> Iowans recovering from rare Nov. tornadoes
> WOODWARD, Iowa (AP) — State agencies and relief organizations were on the job Monday helping Iowans clear away wreckage and resume their lives following weekend tornadoes that ravaged small towns and killed one woman


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

MIAMI, Florida (AP) -- Tropical Storm Gamma -- the 24th storm of the busiest hurricane season on record -- formed Friday off the coast of Central America, and forecasters said it could threaten Florida by the beginning of next week, perhaps as a hurricane.


----------



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Marc, you're just being an alarmist. It's just part of the hurricane cycle. I bet Dick Cheney doesn't own any trailer homes.
 

Global warming is just a myth like the link between cigarettes and cancer.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Okay okay I was shocked too.........ZETA!!!!!!! 



> *Way Past a Devastating Season, the 27th Tropical Storm Festers*
> 
> By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD
> Published: December 31, 2005
> ...


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/31/national/31zeta.html


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

.....and kicking off what promises to be another wild and woolly time in the Atlantic 



> *Tropical depression forms in Caribbean*
> Jun. 10, 2006. 07:37 PM
> ASSOCIATED PRESS
> 
> ...


http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...l_pageid=968332188492&call_pagepath=News/News

a soggy Florida coming right up


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Act two?? Nasty track that's on for potential New Orleans problems.










early yet but.........round we go again.

This from the BBC



> * Package holiday 'will be history'*
> 
> Popular destinations may lose their attraction
> Climate change may lead to the British package holiday to the Mediterranean becoming "consigned to the scrapbook of history", a report claims.
> ...


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5288092.stm


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> Atlantic's First Named Storm Forms Early
> By JESSICA GRESKO
> The Associated Press
> Wednesday, May 9, 2007; 2:20 PM
> ...


bet the insurance companies are casting their bones about 2007.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Let the show begin...with a bang  ..with maybe a Cat 5 !!!..already a category 4.




















> Hurricane Dean and its clearly defined eye can be seen swirling in the Carribean with part of the International Space Station visible in the foreground in this view from NASA TV August 18, 2007.




















Martinique
Hurricane Dean strengthens to Category 4 in Caribbean -- OrlandoSentinel.com


> Hurricane Dean bears down on Jamaica
> 
> CARLOS BARRIA
> 
> ...


globeandmail.com: Hurricane Dean bears down on Jamaica


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Fortunately Dean was not such a killer despite coming ashore as a Cat 5 

This photo prior to hitting Mexico caught my eye...pardon the pun..










Beautiful....deadly..not so bad THIS time.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

'Nother one lining up - went to Cat 3 in 24 hours 












> *Felix intensifies to Category 3 hurricane*
> IRASI JIMENEZ
> Reuters
> September 2, 2007 at 2:14 PM EDT
> ...


globeandmail.com: Felix intensifies to Category 3 hurricane


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Damn it's a Cat 4 already - the fastest growing hurricane on record.!!!!












> Felix grows into a Category 4 hurricane targeting Belize
> 8 hours ago
> 
> MIAMI (AFP) — One person was reported missing in Venezuela as Hurricane Felix grew into a major class-four storm Sunday and threatened to become a level-five super storm as it headed on a track toward Honduras and Belize.
> ...





> Felix strengthens at alarming rate
> 
> Felix is the Atlantic storm season's second hurricane; Dean claimed 25 lives last month [AFP]
> Hurricane Felix is strengthening at an alarming rate after lashing a cluster of Dutch Caribbean islands and churning its way into the open waters of the Caribbean sea.
> ...


This thing only BECAME a hurricane on Saturday .....NOW 24 hours later it's a Cat 4 heading to Cat 5......yow.

and now IS a Cat 5



> Hurricane expected to slam Central America midweek
> Sep 02, 2007 08:25 PM
> Associated Press
> 
> ...


That must be some hot water it's transversing to accelerate like that.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

I have a friend here in Mexico who works with public safety, disaster response, etc. The damage in the Yucatán, I hear, was extensive in the Mayan communities (the resorts weren't terribly affected).

In Hidalgo, where I was when Dean passed overhead, it had weakened considerably and we had - practically no wind, but in some places up to 20 inches of rainfall. The neighbourhood I was staying in was partially evacuated from flooding (it reached our front door, and stopped... our bags were packed).

But in the rural, mountainous areas - total disaster. It's hard to convey to those who live in Canada just how precarious life and shelter is down here for the truly poor. Houses - if you can call 'em that - are little more than sticks with a sheet of tin on the roof. The nightly news last week showed some video of some of the better-constructed houses, with concrete floors and walls, being undermined by the rapidly flowing water, washing away the foundation and leaving the house to collapse.

Our community project in Huehuetla has just gotten several degrees more difficult.... 

The photo below is from the community of Alfajayucan in Hidalgo, México, taken two days before the hurricane. I'd post photos of the post-hurricane aftermath, but nobody was able to get to those communities in the few days I had left in the area. I can only imagine what hurricane-force winds would do to a shack like that... not to mention its ability to withstand flooding....


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Mexico looks to get double whammy again. Two cat 5s in 2 weeks 

Where were you CM?

••

Hmmmph .....do you think Henrietta and Felix might BREED??!!!!



> *Tropical storm Henriette is forecast to strike Mexico as a hurricane at about 18:00 GMT on 4 September*. Data supplied by the US Navy and Air Force Joint Typhoon Warning Center suggest that the point of landfall will be near 22.6 N, 110.6 W. Henriette is expected to bring 1-minute maximum sustained winds to the region of around 157 km/h (97 mph). Wind gusts in the area may be considerably higher.


make that a triple whammy.....










Interesting times in Central America


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

I'd say Henrietta has too much of a headstart for any breeding to occur (unless Felix is very talented!).

My best pal wrapped up his honeymoon today -- ruined by Henrietta. Dean passed through three days before his wedding last week, and almost flooded the ceremony out. Good thing he's not into omens!

During Dean I was in Pachuca, the capital city of Hidalgo state, North-East of Mexico City. We were supposed to be in Huehuetla (one of the hardest-hit mountain municipalities) but earlier rains had made the roads too treacherous.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Well Felix arrived with a bang - luckily not in a high density area. First time ever two Cat 5s have made landfall in the same season and we've not yet hit the peak of the hurricane season.

Soe good fortune that while powerful it's small unlike Mitch and Katrina.












> Hurricane Felix crashes ashore in Central America
> 16 hours ago
> 
> LA CEIBA, Honduras (AFP) — Hurricane Felix smashed ashore in northeastern Nicaragua Tuesday, after swelling into a potentially catastrophic category five storm, the US National Hurricane Center said.
> ...


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

What a nasty track for this beast




> Atlantic provinces brace for Noel's bite
> 
> MARTIN MITTELSTAEDT
> 
> ...












surfs up.......


----------



## darkscot (Nov 13, 2003)

yikes! we're smack dab in the middle of that!


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

_This NOAA satellite image taken Saturday, 1:45 a.m. EDT shows a large swirl of clouds associated with Extratropical Hurricane Noel as it moves parallel to the eastern seaboard. (AP PHOTO/WEATHER UNDERGROUND)_


> Noel aims for Atlantic Canada
> MELANIE PATTEN
> CANADIAN PRESS
> 
> ...


globeandmail.com: Noel aims for Atlantic Canada

Batten the hatches comes to mind


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"Gusty southwesterly winds up to 120 km/h will develop Sunday evening."

"Rough seas and heavy ponding surf will also develop along the coast of Newfoundland Sunday evening."


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Fortunate timing with the neap tide.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

True, MacDoc. Still, the fury of the north Atlantic is awesome any time of the year, during any phase of the tides.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Let the roulette wheel spin..... 












> *Hurricane Bertha strengthens to "major" storm*
> Mon Jul 7, 2008 7:40pm EDT
> 
> By Michael Christie
> ...


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

While Bertha bothers Dr. G Texas and Mexico are getting hit pretty hard. Cat 2 but lotsa rain....












> *Dolly starts pounding Texas-Mexico coast*
> 
> ELIZABETH WHITE
> The Associated Press
> ...


globeandmail.com: Dolly makes landfall in South Texas

Rowdy girls this year.....


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Edouard is up next, followed by Fay. We shall see.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Katrina II 

Gustav has the potential up to Cat 5












> TUESDAY, AUGUST 26, 2008
> 
> *Hurricane Gustav: Category 5 Potential,Katrina Precident*
> 
> ...


----------



## hhk (May 31, 2006)

I'm going to Florida in October. Wish me luck.


----------



## iJohnHenry (Mar 29, 2008)

Ah, good choice.

Just in time for the dry season.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Cat 4 and climbing - 145 mph off Cuba and heading to even warmer water once it gets into the gulf. 

Apparently only 10 mph below Cat 5 at this point - New Orleans is evacutating some people already

Cuba is on the nasty quandrant just now - getting hammered by winds but the hurricane stays over the water so does not diminish 

Tight eye = wicked storm....this one's classic - one can hope it stalls out but not likely


----------



## iJohnHenry (Mar 29, 2008)

Gustav is too 'elegant' a name for this one.

How about Goebbels?


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Gusto maybe.....it's now gnawing on Cuba big time.... 

Caught in the act.....landfall on Cuba Cat 4 close to Cat 5 










That's gonna nail Havana with the northeast quadrant


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

By 4AM tomorrow, all roads north, out of New Orleans, will be one way. Thus, no one can travel in to NO, just out. Luckily, the state and city are taking action, not wanting to be left holding the bag once again due to inactivity in Washington.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Yeah it seems to be far better organized and even if it's not a Katrina level event it puts into practice the new methods.

Apparently they have already evacuated the southern parishes near the Gulf so that there will not be a build up of traffic.


----------



## iJohnHenry (Mar 29, 2008)

Do I hear any votes for a Category 6??


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

With a predicted storm surge over 20 feet, this could be given its own category. I pray for those who are in the path of this monster.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Better gas up tonight....Cat 5 all the way to the coast and right into the heart of the oil rigs.

It's heading directly over the Loop current which powers hurricanes into monsters and this is already a big beast....

So overlay the track with the oil rigs.....




















Bowling for dollars with billion dollar oil rigs as pins


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I am more concerned about the people than the oil rigs, but I can see the price of gas going up next week. We shall see.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

They've ordered mandatory evacuation now....



> Mandatory evacuations to begin Sunday morning in New Orleans
> 
> NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin ordered a mandatory evacuation of the city beginning 8 a.m. Sunday but urged residents to consider escaping "the mother of all storms" before then.
> New Orleans residents leave Friday via Interstate 10 westbound ahead of Hurricane Gustav.
> ...


and then a few more wickednesses lined up across the Atlantic


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Bloody big storm and the outlier bands are already ashore


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Hopefully, FEMA will be proactive this time.  Pres. Bush is not going to the Republican convention now so as to "monitor" the hurricane.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

If everyone else is proactive, FEMA will have little to do. Sounds like New Orleans has actually issued evacuation orders in time.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Some people are staying behind because they have no money to get out of NO. May all those in that area be spared the wrath of this monster storm.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Kinda spooky to see the empty freeways on a long weekend in a tourist town.... 

New Orleans Traffic Cameras

There is certainly a different air of preparation this time.

It was jammed outbound last night










and same stretch now










Those staying have been told bluntly they are on their own - no rescues 

Dr. G there are actually more buses available for evacuation than people to fill them so money should be no reason to stay. I don't beleive there is any cost.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

CNN has been interviewing people who say that there is no place for them to go, they will lose their jobs if they leave, and that they are not willing to lose everything to looting once again.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Now both Bush and Cheney are staying away from the Republican convention, with Bush going to Texas, Cheney staying is Washington, and McCain wanting to go to Louisiana as soon as the storm hits.


----------



## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

http://www.stormpulse.com/fullscreen/tropical-storm-gustav-2008


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

A very interesting interactive map, O-man. Merci.


----------



## winwintoo (Nov 9, 2004)

Dr.G. said:


> Now both Bush and Cheney are staying away from the Republican convention, with Bush going to Texas, Cheney staying is Washington, and McCain wanting to go to Louisiana as soon as the storm hits.


Came across this post on Walt Handelsman's site:
Pulitzer Prize-winning political cartoonist and animator



> RNC: Gustav
> Well, I'm sitting in my Minneapolis hotel room basically tearing up a bunch of funny cartoon ideas that just don't work in light of Gustav bearing down on New Orleans. I spoke with my old editor and close friend, Jim Amoss, at The Times-Picayune in New Orleans last night. I asked what the feeling was down there and he summed it up this way: "Just pray for us, Walt."
> The sting of Katrina will never leave the souls of New Orleanians who lived through the storm and suffered, and continue to suffer, through the unbelievably slow rebuilding of their city and their lives. The idea of another killer hurricane hitting almost three years to the day of Katrina must be brutal for them. Many of my friends have fled to Mississippi. Let's just hope that somehow the storm weakens.
> Meanwhile...Up here, the delegates, the media and the event planners are in kind of a weird holding pattern. Will the convention be cut short. One rumor is that John McCain may not come at all. Bush and Cheney have cancelled and many of the delegates wandering around the hotel seem out of sorts. They came here to have a party and realize now that it will be a totally different deal.
> ...


*"Will the convention be cut short. One rumor is that John McCain may not come at all."*


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

'Nother very good tracking map based on google

IBISEYE.com -- Your 2008 Atlantic Hurricane Season Tracking Map Source -- Tracking path of Hurricane Gustav

If you click on the Show GOES button on the right it will show the satellite overlay.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

MacDoc, that was an interesting interactive map as well. I recall my two years teaching in Waycross, Georgia, which was about 40 miles from Jacksonville, Florida, having to watch the path of a hurricane that was headed for Jacksonville. It went right over us, and I have never before experienced the "eye of the hurricane" effect when all got still and brightened up a bit ............ before the really bad part of the hurricane hit.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

My only brush with a hurricane was Hazel and I still clearly remember ( I was 7 ) going outside with my Dad and it was very ominous and of course hammered parts of Toronto and a bit north.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Yeh, I think Hurrican Hazel dulled the twinkle in my father's eye, many years before he was married and before my subsequent birth.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I had just turned 6 when Hurricane Hazel made it to the US. All we had in New York City were record high winds. The storm was so bad that gusts of wind forced the abandonment of the control tower at La Guardia Airports. I lived only about 20 minutes away from La Guardia Airport. My only memory was going outside with my father and jumping .......... making note of how much I was being pushed back by the high winds. I recall it uprooted a tree outside of a friend's home.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I also recall that back in 1960, Hurricane Donna created a storm tide in the New York Harbor that caused extensive pier damage.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Just spoke to my wife's brother, who lives outside of Calgary. It is raining and going down to 3C tonight, and he expects the possibility of some wet snow out on his ranch.


----------



## iJohnHenry (Mar 29, 2008)

We had just moved to Scarborough in '53 (I was 13), but I remember my future BIL and I, leaning about 40º into the wind.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Gustav arriving a bit ahead of schedule

















anyone watching CNN.....winds are already pretty stiff.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Yes, was watching CNN when the Mayor of NO declared that any looter caught would be sent "directly to Angola". I had to do a double-take until he explained that Angola Prison was a state facility.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I don't get CNN so we only get bits and pieces here and there on other networks. Still, I got enough to know it has no got past a cat 3 which must be a relief for many who fled fearing the worst.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sinc, stay up to date with CNN online at CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News


----------



## winwintoo (Nov 9, 2004)

CNN Live

I don't get CNN either and when I called tonight to have it added to my cable lineup, they said it would require a tech visit.

CNN Live seems to be just that - live CNN.

Margaret


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

CNN has people on the ground in the direct path of the hurricane, as well in New Orleans. That takes courage and dedication to one's profession.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

The latest from CNN
Hundreds of thousands flee coastal Louisiana ahead of Gustav - CNN.com


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

So far, this is the only good news to speak of just now.

"(CNN) -- Hurricane Gustav began to lash the southern Louisiana coastline early Monday as it moved closer to an expected midday landfall, according to the National Hurricane Center in Miami.

While forecasters said it could intensify a bit before moving inland, it will not likely be the Category 4 storm that had been predicted -- a possibility that added urgency to mass evacuation orders in recent days."


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

How lucky is the U.S. that Cuba was there to take the edge off. Gustav hit the Western end of the island as a Category 4 hurricane. Some 86,000 homes are either heavily damaged or destroyed. The worst hurricane to hit that part of the island in over 50 years.

Heartbreaking. Read this report about _Las Palacios_, the first community hit by the storm.

Amazingly, no loss of life. Gotta give Cuba credit - it's Civil Defense system is perfection... they moved 250,000 people out of the path of the storm. Before hitting Cuba, Gustav had killed 81 people.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

And our stupid Bush lap puppy gov offers no aid to Cuba which gets hit with a far stronger storm but sends a plane to please buddy George


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Oops









[/img]


----------



## iJohnHenry (Mar 29, 2008)

You lookin' for traffic cameras?? :lmao:


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Yeah they hung in most of the night - back in action now - no traffic tho










New Orleans Traffic Cameras

Looks like they are evacuating anyone left in one area where a levee is about to break.

Plaquemines Parish levee overtopped, subdivision threatened - Hurricane Gustav News and Storm Tracking - NOLA.com


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Here we go again, and again and.....



> Tropical quartet: 4 storms with more to come
> 
> By SETH BORENSTEIN, AP Science Writer 1 hour, 15 minutes ago
> 
> ...


 

Tropical quartet: 4 storms with more to come - Yahoo! News


----------



## winwintoo (Nov 9, 2004)

It looks like Ike is getting stronger and the path is right behind Hanna. 

Those poor folks.

Margaret


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Yeah Cuba in particular - the intercept of the Cat 4 almost Cat 5 Gustav help blunt it a bit for New Orleans - now Hanna is spinning up at the other end of the island 

No shortage of water for the reservoirs I bet.

and there there is Haiti



> Hanna leaves 61 dead in Haiti as more storms brew in Atlantic
> 
> 3 hours ago
> 
> ...


wow



> Two other storms were churning in the Atlantic.
> 
> *Ike strengthened to a Category Three hurricane just three hours after it moved from being a tropical storm to gaining hurricane status.*
> 
> And Tropical Storm Josephine, in the eastern Atlantic 605 kilometers (375 miles) west of the southernmost Cape Verde islands, was expected to weaken as it moved west-northwest Thursday.


AFP: Hanna leaves 61 dead in Haiti as more storms brew in Atlantic

The insurance adjusters must be quivering under their beds....

can't keep up....

Ike now Cat 4 - luckily not near land...



> ke grows to Category 4 hurricane, Hanna strengthens
> Wed Sep 3, 2008 11:39pm EDT
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Poor Cuba right in the cross hairs of a major


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Still 17C at nearly 2AM, but the winds are picking up.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

5 am and Ike is still packing 135 mph winds and not far off shore of Cuba










and a perfect eye - 

Then there is Haiti  - three weeks - three storms 500 dead already and Cat 4 Ike just offshore dumping more rain.

This is Haiti BEFORE Ike which will be hitting now


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sadly, Haiti is the country in the least shape to help its people.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I'm actually more worried about Cuba.

The US is barely out of fixing up Katrina's devastation of a Cat 3 3 years ago - Cuba is about to get hit with the *second* Category 4 dead on within a week.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

According to CubaMark, Cuba at least knows how to deal with these sorts of situations. However, I see your point that too much of any such weather is not good for anyone.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Yes but two Cat 4s in a week are not in anyone's planning - they are evacuating 1/2 million...



> Toll in Haiti from Ike climbs to 600; Cuba evacuates half-million
> 
> 16 hours ago
> 
> ...


5 METER storm surge  and they were not even in the path...


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Hanna is dumping on us right now. Pouring rain, but I have seen worse -- in Waycross, Georgia during full hurricanes.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

I'm on a bus to Mexico City in half an hour, and at 12:35pm I have a seat on a flight to Havana. IF they let us take off, IF the José Martí airport is open, I'll be in town just in time to experience Ike. 

Whenever I find access to internet, will send along a follow-up.

Cheers,
M.


----------



## iJohnHenry (Mar 29, 2008)

I doubt you'll get in.

Ike is running the length of Cuba, East to West.

No stone unturned.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Good luck, Mark. Pax, mi amigo.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Yeah be safe - not a good time to fly into Cuba.....



> Deadly Hurricane Ike rakes Cuba
> 
> Sep 08, 2008 09:17 AM
> 
> ...


 

more
TheStar.com | World | Deadly Hurricane Ike rakes Cuba


----------



## iJohnHenry (Mar 29, 2008)

> It said huge waves surged over buildings as tall as *five storeys* and that dozens of dwellings were damaged beyond repair.


That can't be good. :-(


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Yeah many of the coast areas are shallow and with a 15-20' surge and waves it's clearly a catastrophe.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

The province of Newfoundland and Labrador received so much rain in the past day due to Hanna coming over our province, that the hydro plants are saying that they now have so much water that they will be able to generate enough power to provide electricity to the entire island section of NL for three weeks, saving 315,000 barrels of oil.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Is this the reason everyone is filling their cars with gas tonight??? _ lineups everywhere 










apparently so....



> *Residents in the US state of Texas have begun to evacuate as Hurricane Ike churns through the Gulf of Mexico.*
> 
> About one million people have been advised to leave their homes, and the authorities have laid on more than 1,000 buses to facilitate the exodus.
> 
> ...


BBC NEWS | Americas | Evacuations as Ike approaches US


----------



## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

Yup all the gas stations around here are jam packed with folks trying to fill up before the price hike. We get hosed yet again.

Granted I hope the folks in the path of the storm I feel sorry for.

Kevin


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Yeah I can see why 



> *Gas prices predicted to rise 12.9 cents a litre Friday*
> 
> Article Comments (141)
> JOSH WINGROVE
> ...


and this is getting into terrorizing terroritory


This storm is s big that there is already a 6' storm surge....wait for it...hitting New Orleans ...... which is not even in its path.

Damn - strong language 


> Weather service warns of 'certain death' from Ike
> Updated Thu. Sep. 11 2008 11:15 PM ET
> 
> CTV.ca News Staff
> ...


23 foot storm surge!!!!!!!!!!!.......  

CTV.ca | Weather service warns of 'certain death' from Ike


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

1900 hurricane that hit Galveston was the worst natural disaster ever to hit the US.


























why Galveston Bay is so vulnerable









this track look familiar 










good story of the storm here including eye witnesses - of course there was no warning

Long and detailed read

excerpt


> The utter destruction of Galveston and surrounding areas had begun. Through the night buildings were dashed by waves and torn by winds; debris swirled in a mad dervish, crashing through windows and walls and killing animals and people all across the city. Nearly every Galvestonian feared for their lives and for at about 20 percent of the population those fears were realized.
> 
> Overnight, the wind steadily diminished in velocity from their evening hurricane force, and at 8 am the morning of the 9th, they blew from the south at a relatively gentle 32 km/h (20 mph). With the dawn, the survivors looked out on "one of the most horrible sights that ever a civilized people looked upon. _About three thousand homes, nearly half the residence portion of Galveston, had been completely swept out of existence, and probably more than six thousand persons had passed from life to death during that dreadful night" in Cline's words_.


Weather Events: The 1900 Galveston Hurricane

Current defence



> SEA WALL:
> In 1900, the highest point in Galveston was only 8.7 feet above sea level and the hurricane easily inundated the city with a storm surge of 15 feet.
> 
> With the terrible memories of the 1900 hurricane in mind, the people of Galveston began an unprecedented effort to protect their city from the next "big one." In 1902, they began constructing a 16-foot thick, 17-foot high sea wall covering three miles of oceanfront. They also began the monumental task of raising the entire island by as much as eight feet with sand dredged from Galveston Bay. Today's sea wall has been extended to a length of 10 miles of oceanfront to protect the heart of the city.


one can hope but the storm surge predicted is going overtop that wall by 5'+ not counting waves...no wonder the evacuation order.


----------



## iJohnHenry (Mar 29, 2008)

Notice all the structures were made of wood. 

Oh, gas this morning .... $1.37:8. Happy Motoring.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Wood or not if you are in a house with 20' of water ...

Part of the big nasty is the size of the storm - some eye witnesses who are on the coast are seeing large storm surge effects and there is 24 hours and 400 miles yet to go.

Because the storm is so wide and the shape of the gulf it is funnelling the surge ahead of it...and then it will go right into Galveston Bay. :what:










cool animation










then a long time later and much diminished we get dumped on


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

This is Galveston strand right now..... storm is 400 miles away


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## winwintoo (Nov 9, 2004)

What a shame - I've been to that street briefly and if I'm not mistaken, if you go a couple of blocks up and turn right, you'll be only a block from the bay. When I visited, there was a huge (what do I know about ships  ) cruise ship docked (parked?) just around the corner. 

We ate in a restaurant right on the water and walked out to get a closer look at the ship. There was no 17 foot sea wall protecting that restaurant.

We travelled there by bus, so it was hard to see much during the trip except the guard rails on the interstate, but the guide told us where the seawall was and at times we could see the gulf - it was not far away and not far below us.

We saw one home that had sort of survived the 1900 hurricane. We were told that the main floor filled with sediment that was pushed ashore, so the owners just built another floor on top. Also, the place was surrounded by a spiked iron fence - the kind you see in haunted house pictures - but the fence was only a couple of feet high. The guide said the fence was originally 8 feet high but most of it was buried under the silt from that storm.

What a monster this one looks like.

Margaret


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

updated 29 minutes ago

A perfect eye and enormous!!!!!! 900 miles across,

Even Houston is at heavy risk now -


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I have been to Houston and Galvaston, and I don't see how Galvaston can take that huge surge of water. Houston will have major flooding due to the paving over with concrete much of their green spaces for houses, roads, shopping centers, etc, and the dry summer they had which means runoff rather than absorption of the rain. We shall see.


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

7 m storm surge is just unimaginable. When there is a storm surge of 2-3 feet here we have problems. 

Galvaston's biggest problem is that it is built on a barrier island/delta. It's flat as a pancake and at sea level essentially.


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## winwintoo (Nov 9, 2004)

Dr.G. said:


> I have been to Houston and Galvaston, and I don't see how Galvaston can take that huge surge of water. Houston will have major flooding due to the paving over with concrete much of their green spaces for houses, roads, shopping centers, etc, and the dry summer they had which means runoff rather than absorption of the rain. We shall see.


Houston could actually benefit from a 7 metre storm surge provided they hired a city planner before beginning reconstruction. Imagine a city were major roads actually go somewhere, building numbers mean something, whole neighbourhoods are not isolated by parallel freeways located a block apart. Finding anything in Houston is a nightmare. In most cities if you don't know your way around, you call a cab. Not in Houston. If the driver is lucky enough to find where you are, he won't be able to find where you're going unless it's GWB International airport and even then you're probably out of luck because any rain - and it's rains every day - the road to the airport will be flooded.

But the toll road is always open. Too bad it doesn't go anywhere.

You all know I'm jesting. Houston is a vibrant, alive city and if it's planning is not up to my definition of organization, they don't seem to care.

Galveston is such a pretty place. I hate to see it inundated.

Margaret


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Margaret, all we had to find was the Astrodome, which was not difficult to find.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

I'm alive. Landed on Monday afternoon in bright sunshine, but with clouds gathering. Hot and humid. By 10:00pm Monday night, Havana had heavy rains and the electricity was cut off (done as a precautionary measure, on purpose, to prevent further damage to the system and from people touching downed wires). Electricity was only returned to Centro Habana late Thursday afternoon. Limited internet access - only today - Friday - I walked over to the 2nd-poshest hotel here (Melia Cohiba) and found pretty decent high-speed wireless internet in the lobby for $6/hr.

Havana was mostly spared, only downed trees, power lines, and a few "derrumbes" (very old buildings in a state of disrepair that crumble to dust after the water that penetrates during the storms dries up).

But the rest of the island? Whoo boy. I'll leave it to Susan Hurlich (below) to cover. Susan is a Canadian journalist who has lived in Cuba for over 25 years, and is well connected to the various information sources.

I'll simply add - as Susan goes into detail - that Cuba's Civil Defense network is second-to-none in the world. Absolutely amazing work, evacuating not only people, but belongings. The recuperation effort is well underway, but the damage to the agricultural crops and rural infrastructure is immense.

The Canadian Network on Cuba has a hurricane relief effort underway (money and construction materials to be shipped). Their webmaster isn't on the job, however, so check out the site of the Nova Scotia-Cuba Association (NSCUBA) with info on donations: www.nscuba.org



> From: Susana Hurlich
> Subject: post-Hurricane Ike - update #6
> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:55:28 -0700
> 
> ...


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Carex, we have had two "rogue waves" here outside of St.John's in the past month. Each were over 20 feet high. They were each a single wave, not a storm surge, and formed in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. The first wave hit a beach were there were people and went up to the parking lot. However, it dragged two adults and two children back into the Atlantic at it receded. Luckily, all were saved. The other wave hit the side of a rock formation which was over 150 feet high, but left a mark that old timers who have lived and fished around this cliff said was never touched.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Glad to hear you are safe and well CM, please keep us posted as internet access allows.


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## winwintoo (Nov 9, 2004)

I've been watching videos on CNN.com of rescue efforts. Crazy people. Don't they understand that they are risking other people's lives just so they can have an adventure?

We knew a week ago that this storm was coming and generally where it would make landfall, and for the past couple of days it's clear that it would flood Galveston but people have stayed there and now brave souls in helicopters are having to rescue them.

I guess I'm a born chicken. I would have been gone long ago.

Margaret


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## iJohnHenry (Mar 29, 2008)

Dr.G. said:


> The other wave hit the side of a rock formation which was over 150 feet high, but left a mark that old timers who have lived and fished around this cliff said was never touched.


Marc, I need a mark. :clap: How high did it go up the face of that cliff?? I can't tell.



winwintoo said:


> Crazy people. Don't they understand that they are risking other people's lives just so they can have an adventure?


Margaret, they were warned, so they should have to fend for themselves.

Most stay because of "things" and "stuff". We all know what George Carlin thought of "stuff".

Sorry, but you pay your money, and you take your choice. Don't take anyone else with you.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

John, it went up about a quarter of the way. See the waves at the bottom, and imagine something 20-25 times that height.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Devastation in Cuba is unreal 

YouTube - HOLGUIN CUBA HURACAN IKE

YouTube - Hurricane Ike POUNDS Cuba!


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Well this time it's our turn with Ike.



> *Heavy rain tonight from Ike*
> 
> RICHARD LAUTENS/TORONTO STAR
> 
> ...


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

That's a great deal of rain for a city that has lots of concrete and not that much green earth.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Not sure what the status is of Toronto flood control - certainly many changes were made after Hazel but that's long ago.
28 and sweltering - off to go hide in the movie theatre.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

A quiet 17C at just past 7PM here in St.John's. Not a breeze in sight, which is fine with me.


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## iJohnHenry (Mar 29, 2008)

Movie theatre??

Hope he takes an umbrella in with him.

King City, Ontario - Radar Imagery - Environment Canada


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Lots of rain all over, iJH.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Had a nice meal and fun movie- dodged the heat and just arrived home as the rain started to get heavy. :clap:
House much cooler now - a/c was overwhelmed earlier for the upper floor.


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## iJohnHenry (Mar 29, 2008)

I give it 30 minutes 'till I get wet.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

for a while methinks









24 and WET


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## iJohnHenry (Mar 29, 2008)

If it clears by 11 in the morning I will be a happy mouse.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

A beautiful full moon on a crystal clear night here in St.John's. Rare for us.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

From a few hours west.....



> I live right at the point of that black arrow. We basically got sideswiped by Ike. My brother lives due east of us, in Illinois, so he got the full force, *4 inches of rain in six hours.*


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Chicago was flooded by Ike.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Lucky us - it is clearing out now and much less humid



> *Rainfall lighter than predicted from Hurricane Ike *
> 
> Sep 14, 2008 10:05 PM
> 
> ...


----------



## iJohnHenry (Mar 29, 2008)

We got winds, and some rain, but I've seen worse, and this Summer too.

Much cooler and nicer now.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Amazing Ike compilation

The short - but eventful - life of Ike - The Big Picture - Boston.com


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## gwillikers (Jun 19, 2003)

MacDoc said:


> Amazing Ike compilation
> 
> The short - but eventful - life of Ike - The Big Picture - Boston.com


That link was forwarded to me yesterday, and I was going to post it here until I saw your post, MacDoc.
But, YES, what a truly amazing collection of photos on the destruction of Ike. Really thought provoking photos, and I can't help but feel bad for those that suffered huge losses.

That cemetery shot is something else!


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

MacDoc said:


> Amazing Ike compilation
> 
> The short - but eventful - life of Ike - The Big Picture - Boston.com


Wow. That was incredible! Thanks for that sobering link MacDoc.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

> That cemetery shot is something else!


Remember that in Galveston, most coffins are interred near the surface, not buried six feet under.

I'm always amazed at the willingness of people to build houses right along the coast line in hurricane zones. You just know they'll rebuild right there. Anybody who sells them insurance for this is insane.


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## winwintoo (Nov 9, 2004)

Some Ike victims may not be allowed to rebuild

I read this the other day and thought it was interesting. I can't understand why people keep rebuilding in a place that is hit by one disaster after another.

I also read about that lone house that is still standing amid the destruction. It looks like it's still ok in the pictures, but the water was so high it wrecked the inside so it's a total loss.

I'll take the cold and snow any day.

Margaret


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

For those so inclined, a friend who runs a not-for-profit Cuban travel agency in Vancouver has set up an excellent website with info on the impact of Hurricane Ike on the island, and for those so inclined, how to help.

Hurricane Help for Cuba, Donate to Cuba, Cuban Hurricane Relief



Hot and sunny in Havana today... figure I've lost a good 10 kilos in sweat from walking around the city so far  My two years in Mexico haven't prepared me for this climate!

The reconstruction effort continues, but man - the damage to Cuba's agricultural infrastructure in particular is massive. There will be lean days ahead. Everyone I know, and others I've just met, have / are sending packages of food, clothing, etc., to their relatives and friends in the countryside. 

In the farmers' markets here in Havana (so many more than a few years ago, and abundant with veggies, fruits, and meat) there has been some fear of a spike in prices, but apart from a few isolated cases, the prices are remaining stable. 

More to come...

M.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Where did THIS come from??? 










_Enlarge Image
In this handout from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), Tropical Storm Kyle is seen in open water southeast of the well-defined non-tropical low pressure system located over central South Carolina. (Getty Images)_


East Coasters prepare to get wet ...



> Kyle heads towards the Maritimes
> Article Comments (34)
> JOHN LEWANDOWSKI
> The Canadian Press
> ...


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Wow that was a fast spin up......upgraded to hurricane.



> Kyle now a hurricane, on direct path to Maritimes
> Updated Sat. Sep. 27 2008 8:40 PM ET
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Just when Cubans thought they might catch a break..... ANOTHER Cat 4  












> Paloma grows to Category 4, heads toward Cuba
> Updated Sat. Nov. 8 2008 11:00 AM ET
> 
> CTV.ca News Staff
> ...


CTV.ca | Paloma grows to Category 4, heads toward Cuba


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

*Morakot munches China - both of them....*



> Typhoon Morakot has hit the coastal areas of the Chinese mainland, where around a million people have been moved to safer areas.
> 
> The typhoon dumped nearly *2m of rain *in parts of Taiwan over the course of 24 hours - and it is not the only storm causing problems for China's coastal regions.


One hopes that's a typo but considering Bombay got a meter without a typhoon in a single day I'm thinking its no typo...and sure enough

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Taiwan hotel collapses after typhoon

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Typhoon Morakot hits China coast



> Waves as high as 9m have been reported on China's south-east coast


BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Typhoon batters south-east China

a million people evacuated - that number is staggering

From Taiwan





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.






2 metres of rain - in 24 hours - unreal...and only a Cat 2


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Yikes make that within a hair of 3 meters..... the heaviest ever recorded by over 50%

Wettest tropical cyclones in Taiwan/Taipei
Highest known recorded totals
Precipitation Storm Location
Rank (mm) (in)
1 *2900* 114.17 Morakot 2009 Wei Liao Mountain


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Those are amazing storms, MacDoc.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

and it's only a Cat 2 - that's 10 feet of rain in 24 hours - it really is hard to imagine....when Bombay drowned with 1 meter.

To put that storm in perspective



> The mean *annual* rainfall in the Taiwan area is 2,510 mm,


 

More than a year's worth of rain in one day.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Some photos here ....I'm really having trouble imagining the impact of 10 feet of rain in a day......










many more here

Typhoon Morakot slams China, Taiwan - Yahoo! News Photos


----------



## ScanMan (Sep 11, 2007)

Let's not overlook the big picture.

Encapsulated at The Straight Dope - Fighting Ignorance Since 1973

"The earth has been in a constant if extremely slow froth for much of its 4.6 billion-year existence — Pangaea, thought to have existed 250 million years ago, wasn't the first supercontinent and won't be the last. Conjectured predecessors include Ur (3 billion years ago), Kenorland (2.7 to 2.5 billion), Columbia (1.9 to 1.8), Rodinia (1.1), and Gondwana (540 million years ago). The constant shuffling arises from the fact that the hard outer shell of our planet floats atop a region of flowing molten rock, allowing the continents to skate along at the rate of 1 to 2 inches per year. The chief engine of plate tectonics, as this process is called, is the seafloor. At the midocean ridges, molten rock pushes up from below, causing the floor to expand laterally. Meanwhile, closer to the coasts, the edges of the floor get shoved below the continental plates in a process called subduction. Because of this, very little of the seafloor is more than 200 million years old, while parts of the continents are older than 4 billion years.

Why do we get supercontinents periodically? Some suggest that the continents are drawn together by zones in the earth where the seafloor is pulled down into the lower mantle in a process called superdownwelling, drifting toward the suction like rubber ducks in a draining bathtub till they collide. Why do supercontinents later break apart? One theory is that the oversize landmass traps so much heat beneath it that the crust ultimately cracks open. Another idea is that crust-rending "superplumes" of hot magma roil up from the spots where the superdownwelling occurred. Same result either way: the big continent splits back into smaller ones.

What next? I found maps offering one vision of the future on the Web site of Christopher Scotese, a geologist at the University of Texas at Arlington. The highlights: about 50 million years from now Africa plows into Europe, about 150 million years from now Australia becomes one with Antarctica, and by about 250 million years from now another supercontinent has formed, with North and South America, Eurasia, and Africa in one giant clump. In short, the earth will stay lively, not that it'll matter to us."


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## winwintoo (Nov 9, 2004)

MacDoc - do you happen to know of a service that tracks weather around Taiwan?

I'm sure there is one, but I haven't been able to find it. My son is on his way to Taiwan and I'd like to be able to keep track of what's going on over there.

Thanks, Margaret


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Margaret, here is a link to radar images for Taiwan:

Taiwan Radar


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## winwintoo (Nov 9, 2004)

SINC said:


> Margaret, here is a link to radar images for Taiwan:
> 
> Taiwan Radar


Thank you Sinc, that gives me a good idea what's going on over there. 

Margaret


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Ouch



















the train is in motion and there is a very warm Atlantic










evacuations are started already..



> Storms Form
> September 01, 2010, 4:07 PM EDT
> MORE FROM BUSINESSWEEK
> 
> ...


New York may be dodging bullets - or rather warheads over the next couple of weeks.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Been a pretty weak summer for storms this year.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Now your a hurricane forecaster are you ?/ Just as foolish on that front and ill informed as on a few others....


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Well, it beats posting reams of data about a relatively minor disturbance not expected to generate much more than 10% of hurricane wind speed on land according to that same data's wind indicator map you yourself posted.

Do you enjoy being an alarmist or what?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

MacDoc said:


> Now your a hurricane forecaster are you ?/ Just as foolish on that front and ill informed as on a few others....


I'm getting more accurate results looking backwards through 2010 than you are, ringing your nutty alarms.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> *Hurricane Earl Nears Atlantic Coast*
> 
> *By SHAILA DEWAN*
> 
> ...


more

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/03/us/03hurricane.html


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

You gotta believe that the idea of these hurricanes striking land is a big draw for MaccyD... especially in a summer with so few of them.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Insurers cower in their bunkers....










http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXFNCKtB17A


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Weakening to Category 3. Oh well...


----------



## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

Macfury said:


> Been a pretty weak summer for storms this year.


unless you live in Pakistan.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

i-rui said:


> unless you live in Pakistan.


NOAA predicted "a potentially record-setting hurricane season is forecast for the
Atlantic basin."


----------



## chasMac (Jul 29, 2008)

Macfury said:


> NOAA predicted "a potentially record-setting hurricane season is forecast for the
> Atlantic basin."


The "potentially" ensures their rep remains intact.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

chasMac said:


> The "potentially" ensures their rep remains intact.


It remains intact: inaccurate forecasts with the "potential" for infinite massage of results.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Bummer. Another big buildup for nothing. :yawn:


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Amazing the warmth it is pushing our way. 27C with the humidex this afternoon. Now, it is 19C with not a breath of wind.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Ho hum:

Hurricane Earl weakens to Category 2 storm


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

I'm sure I've mentioned it before, but I tend think of this thread and its ilk as disaster weather porn. This latest flurry of activity started out hard-core but it's definitely soft now. So it goes.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Max said:


> I'm sure I've mentioned it before, but I tend think of this thread and its ilk as disaster weather porn. This latest flurry of activity started out hard-core but it's definitely soft now. So it goes.


Don't you even like the part where the alto sax plays, and MacDoc encourages the weather event to broach his shores? "Ohhh baby, ohhh baby, you know you want to... I've got YOUR number baby."


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

I'm hearing ya.

On a more serious note, I understand on one level why this sort of thing is of interest - the terrible majesty of Ma Nature unleashing her force, the myriad tragic overtones emanating from the passage of such storms, the sheer breadth and drama of it all.

But all this net-based, rubber-necking, emoticon-spewing near-glee in the buildup induces nausea in me. I can't get into it... it's like destructive weather as a spectator sport and it baffles me.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Max said:


> I'm hearing ya.
> 
> On a more serious note, I understand on one level why this sort of thing is of interest - the terrible majesty of Ma Nature unleashing her force, the myriad tragic overtones emanating from the passage of such storms, the sheer breadth and drama of it all.
> 
> But all this net-based, rubber-necking, emoticon-spewing near-glee in the buildup induces nausea in me. I can't get into it... it's like destructive weather as a spectator sport and it baffles me.


I think that if such a random storm supports a particular narrative--religious punishment for the evils of mankind, or as in MacDoc's case, a form of neo-hippie punishment for running a modern and successful economy--it becomes irresistible to announce the storm with a blare of trumpets as the just desserts for the carbon economy. "You have sown the wind, now reap the whirlwind!!!! Bwaaaaaa haaaa haaa haaaaaaaa....!"


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Sometimes all those attempts at creating drama fail and the theatre goes dark without an audience.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

MF, I think there's some truth to that... there is some kind of quasi-religious schadenfreude going on when we're told that the latest disastrous storm is merely the direct result of some sort of failed gubbmint/industrial policy of deliberately despoiling the land and harming the planet irreparably, etc. I can picture some angry prophet railing on a crowded street corner, shaking his fist while the heedless masses whirl by.

Sometimes a storm is just a storm.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Max said:


> Sometimes a storm is just a storm.


We can add to that a propensity for building in areas along the sea coast where storms are more likely to happen--something our ancestors would have been loathe to do. Storms aren't destroying our buildings more often--we're building more buildings where they're likely to be destroyed by storms, then rebuilding them in the same place after they're flattened


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Macfury said:


> We can add to that a propensity for building in areas along the sea coast where storms are more likely to happen--something our ancestors would have been loathe to do. Storms aren't destroying our buildings more often--we're building more buildings where they're likely to be destroyed by storms, then rebuilding them in the same place after they're flattened


Worth repeating. Out in the mid-west trailer parks tended to be placed along tornado alleys. Nowadays a tornado flattens the mobile homes and they are replaced with stick structures. Same net result as above.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Great photo










down to Category 1 now but given it's size - lots and lots of rain.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Yeah, as it turns out, another alarmist point of view gone wrong.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

SINC said:


> Yeah, as it turns out, another alarmist point of view gone wrong.


As I said, pretty weak hurricane season, against NOAA predictions.


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

Macfury said:


> As I said, pretty weak hurricane season, against NOAA predictions.


From my prospective the Maritime provinces are affected by the second hurricane and its only early September.

We're up to the fifth named storm already. Perhaps because it not affecting the Excited States so the hype is diminished. If interested see some view of Earl, as long as, the power stays on. Nova Scotia webcams.com/south-shore/peggys-cove.html#axzz0yYQHxeu8


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

So far heavy rainfall and some wind but nothing serious. Took the kids to the market this morning and they enjoyed playing in the puddles.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

MannyP Design said:


> So far heavy rainfall and some wind but nothing serious. Took the kids to the market this morning and they enjoyed playing in the puddles.


Wicked!


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

24C with a 28C humidex reading, compliments of Earl. Sadly, this fine sunny warm weather is brought to us here in St.John's at the expense of those in Nova Scotia who are experiencing the dangerous effects of Earl. I wish you all well.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Macfury said:


> Wicked!


 From what I've heard Halifax is having a rougher go at it, but most I've heard between Moncton St. John and Fredericton it's basically a mild rain storm.

As of now it's just wind.


----------



## bryanc (Jan 16, 2004)

We had some pretty impressive rain and lost power for a couple of hours, but it certainly wasn't a disaster.

Of course, it's pretty rare to get even that much from a hurricane up here, so I'd say Earl must've been carrying a fair bit of energy up from the gulf.


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

Earl went east and landed near Peggy's Cove. Then it travelled north to Truro and near New Glasgow. The area of Nova Scotia.

The fruit growing region of Nova Scotia the Annapolis Valley, that was predicted to be clobbered was spared.

A huge number of customers upward of (200,000) are without power. Not sure if the weather was the cause or the poor quality of the private sector power company's maintenance and under funding of their infrastructure.

Moncton had a small amount of wind damage but otherwise relatively unscathed.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Earl left behind a beautiful suppertime sunset and cool air.

Incidentally, we had a brief outage in the afternoon—lasted about 5-10 seconds and everything came back on.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Earl has brought us above average temps and a distinct lack of any wind. Currently 20C at just past 11PM.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Big one - Igor the Terrible...











880 Km wide :yikes:



> Hurricane Igor, currently churning across the Atlantic as a major Category 4 storm, has been followed by NASA satellites, and dubbed a "monstrous hurricane," in a NASA statement.
> Igor is so large that it is the same distance from one end of the storm to the other as it is from Boston, Mass., to Richmond, Va., some 550 miles (885 kilometers). That's a 10-hour drive.
> Astronauts aboard the International Space Station were so impressed by Igor's immensity that they nicknamed it, "Igor the Terrible."
> Igor's winds have weakened slightly, hitting a maximum of 145 mph (233 kph), but it remains a major Category 4 hurricane. While it's projected path is somewhat uncertain, it could make a direct hit on Bermuda in the next three or four days.
> ...


2 cat5 4s at once and another spinning up...


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Sadly for some, Igor was downgraded once again on the evening news broadcast just moments ago here in the west. :yawn:

Nice try though.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Just a quiet season in the hurricane zone....



> *Multiple hurricanes menace U.S., Mexican coasts*














> Tropical Storm Karl re-entered the Gulf of Mexico and strengthened to hurricane force Thursday after dumping heavy rains on the Yucatan Peninsula, threatening to build into a Category 2 storm according to the U.S. National Hurricane Center.
> 
> Karl could make landfall by late Friday with winds of as much as 160 km/h near the oil hub of Poza Rica, according to the U.S. National Hurricane Center in Miami, Florida.
> 
> ...


Multiple hurricanes menace U.S., Mexican coasts - The Globe and Mail


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Who knows, MacDoc, this could be the hurrigasm you've been waiting for all summer!


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## bryanc (Jan 16, 2004)

Climate modelling predicts that warmer temperatures will provide more energy for tropical storms, and therefore that more and/or more severe hurricanes will result as temperatures increase. However, given the variance in the data (number/intensity of storms), to get statistically significant support for this hypothesis will require more data. A sampling of 1 year (or even 10) is not going to do it. As more and more data accumulates, the science becomes more and more convincing. Most climatologists were convinced back in the 80's. Many more became convinced in the 90's. And all but the most perverse of those remaining have become convinced in the last decade.

But hey, it could all be a big conspiracy, like evolution and the moon landing.

If you're convinced the climatologists have got it wrong, you should take advantage of the cheap land in low-lying areas of Florida.


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## chasMac (Jul 29, 2008)

bryanc said:


> If you're convinced the climatologists have got it wrong, you should take advantage of the cheap land in low-lying areas of Florida.


Or if you swing the other way, purchase vast tracts of land in the tundra as prime ranching and farming land begins to open up, and previously unobtainable resources become increasingly easier to extract. This must particularly galling to environmentalists:



> While wreaking havoc on the environment, global warming will liberate a treasure trove of oil, gas, water and other natural resources previously locked in the frozen North, enriching residents and attracting newcomers.
> 
> Read more: Climate change could make Canada a major world power: geographer


Climate change allowing for more easily exploitable oil reserves: like most things, there's both good and bad to be found.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

bryanc said:


> But hey, it could all be a big conspiracy, like evolution and the moon landing.


Never write off to conspiracy what greed and self-interest will achieve by itself.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Igor brings wet, windy deluge to Newfoundland*





> Communities on Newfoundland's south coast were bearing the early brunt of Igor. In the Burin Peninsula town of St. Lawrence, 152 millimetres of rain had fallen overnight to 5:30 a.m. Between 110 and 140 millimetres were still forecast to fall in the area, Environment Canada said.
> 
> _Impassable roads_
> 
> ...


(CBC)


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

Very sad to see the effects of these named storms. I hope all is well for all NL posters today.


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

CBC link with pictures of the effects of hurricane Igor look here for over 100 pictures


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

BigDL said:


> Very sad to see the effects of these named storms. I hope all is well for all NL posters today.


We lost power for 60 hours, but survived to tell the tale with no major damage to our house or trees. How they survived gusts of up to 145km/h is beyond me.

Here is a picture of two children for whom my wife and I are god parents. They live about 5 blocks from where I live.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Dr.G. said:


> Here is a picture of two children for whom my wife and I are god parents. They live about 5 blocks from where I live.


Dr.G: I don't know how lenient you are as godparents, but I would first make the children put back the trees the way they found them, then lecture them about respecting nature.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Macfury said:


> Dr.G: I don't know how lenient you are as godparents, but I would first make the children put back the trees the way they found them, then lecture them about respecting nature.


I tried to do this, Macfury. They bought one of our doxie pups and these were two favorite trees for Buzz.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

CBC Newfoundland and Labrador | Hurricane Igor

Amazing pictures of Igor's damage.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Take a look at the before and after pics. Amazing what damage Nature can bring about to one peaceful spot. 

CBC Newfoundland and Labrador | Blogs | Ryan Snoddon


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Bloody hell - Yasi is getting off the charts....

This superimposed on the US










Cat 5 - 80 km eye - 290+ winds for 4 hours and it will still be a Cat 3 450 km inland......

I sure can pick a place to retire....eventually 

Keeping fingers crossed for GF who is sitting it out at home. I can't imagine what amounts to tornado level winds for hours on end. 

The town that is getting dead centre will be gone....period.
7meter surge above high tide and high tide is an hour before landfall......they are all evacuated of course.

The storm knocked out the meteo station on Willis Island after recording 290 - and the storm has intensified since.

Something wicked indeed.....:-(










Both Cairns and Townsville are 150k population so billions in damages to come.

Cairns tho escaping the eye by the looks of it and is in the correct quadrant for minimal damage....tho that's a relative term here.

Reports here 



> Windows will explode, roofs will lift and homes on stumps may simply fall over and crumble when category five Cyclone Yasi crosses the coast, experts say.
> 
> Meanwhile, older homes and buildings may "fall over like a house of cards" under the destructive 300km/h winds.


The Age - Business, World & Breaking News | Melbourne, Australia

There is an interesting link here with video on the right of the various levels of hurricane

The Australian | The Australian Homepage | TheAustralian


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Reports of 320kph winds and the Willis Island meteo station was designed to withstand cat 5 - and failed in this case.










Cairn power out for a bit but back up for the web cam at least

Cyclone Yasi - Cairns (#bigyasi) on Justin.tv

still many hours from the eye.

Kind of apocalyptic as I'm sitting here in Montagu South Africa watching Yasi live in Cairns 1 km from my girl friend's house while a continuous stream of water bomber helicopters go over fighting a fire in the kloof behind us....so the wind noise from the web cam and the whop whop of the heavy copters makes for a rather "movie set" sound environment



















and a size large winter storm heading into Ontario.....oh joy


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

from space - a perfect eye and huge


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

MacDoc said:


> from space - a perfect eye and huge


Good Lord, I would not want to be in the path of that monster, MacDoc. Stay safe in South Africa. Paix, mon ami.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Yeah - thanks - all well - Cairns got side swiped with minimal damage and GF is fine tho without power.
She was into work today so got a quick email out from the hospital
Maybe no deaths tho = one guy is missing .....the person reporting the missing person was from Canada so ....??? 

Took 800 km to stop the beast - and it is bringing big time rain as it's so large.



> _8.00pm Residents of Mt Isa - *800km from the coast* - are preparing for something they see as beyond their comprehension: a cyclone. The latest weather bureau report has the cyclone reaching Mt Isa at 1am Queensland time (2am AEDT) as a category one event, which could bring damaging winds of up to 120km/h._
> 
> Read more: Live coverage: Cyclone Yasi - the aftermath | Latest news on the Queensland Floods | News.com.au


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

*This sucker is huge ...Long Island Express II ???*










state by state breakdown.....7" of rain even into Pennsylvania.

State-by-state developments related to Hurricane Irene - CNN.com

New York and other states already declaring states of emergency a couple days out.



> *(CNN)* -- Everyone on the East Coast knew Thursday that monstrous Irene, energizing over bathtub-warm ocean waters, was heading toward them, posing the biggest hurricane threat to the United States in six years.
> What they did not know was the exact path of the storm. So people along a 700-mile stretch of the Atlantic Seaboard were, as North Carolina Gov. Bev Perdue put it, preparing for the worst and praying for the best.
> 
> 
> ...


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> * Irene on path to hit cities, resorts on U.S. east coast *
> 
> * JIM BRUMM *
> 
> ...


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

They are already up to the letter I. It was Hurricane Igor that slammed into NL last year in late Sept. Let us home that all those in her path are spared major damage and injuries.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Someone is going to get hit hard and rain may be the worst of it as it is moving slowly.

When the curve of the earth is seen......it's a big sucker....












> Hurricane Irene
> 
> High above the Earth from aboard the International Space Station, astronaut Ron Garan snapped this image of Hurricane Irene as it passed over the Caribbean on Aug. 22, 2011.
> 
> The National Hurricane Center noted on Aug. 22 that Irene is expected to produce total rainfall accumulations of 5 to 10 inches across Puerto Rico, The Virgin Islands, the Dominican Republic, Haiti, the Southeastern Bahamas and The Turks and Caicos Islands. Isolated maximum amounts of rainfall may reach up to 20 inches.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> *Early Worries That Hurricane Sandy Could Be a ‘Perfect Storm*
> 
> Hurricane Sandy, which on Thursday was barreling through the Bahamas as a Category 2 storm, may be taking aim at the northeastern United States and could make landfall along the Atlantic coast early next week. If so, forecasters say, the storm could become, to use a technical term from meteorology, a whopper.
> 
> ...


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/26/u...a-perfect-storm.html?hp&_r=0&pagewanted=print


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

We shall see. We are preparing for Sandy here in St.John's.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

9C and sunny at just past 9AM. Yesterday's winds hit 109km/h here in St.John's.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Nasty track

Hurricane Sandy: Monster Threat to East Coast - weather.com

and what a rainfall threat










and that tracks similar to Hurricane Hazel








:yikes:


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

pretty dire warning and it's not even arrived yet



> "Be forewarned," Connecticut Gov. Dannel P. Malloy. "Assume that you will be in the midst of flooding conditions, the likes of which you may not have seen at any of the major storms that have occurred over the last 30 years."
> 
> "It's looking like a very serious storm that could be historic," said Jeff Masters, meteorology director of the forecasting service Weather Underground.
> 
> With a rare mix of three big merging weather systems over a densely populated region, experts predict at least $1 billion in damage


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Shades of Hurricane Hazel
Hurricane Hazel


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Transcanada in Wawa



















latest track and we're already soggy


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

It looks like a perfect storm in the making all over again ...


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

screature said:


> It likes like a perfect storm in the making all over again ...


:-(


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Gotta love satellites for the big picture


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

this one is from NOAA at 2 pm today - that sucker is HUGE!!!!


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> *Why Sandy Has Meteorologists Scared in 4 Images*
> By Alexis C. Madrigal
> 
> She's huge. She's strong and might get stronger. She's strange. She's directing the might of her storm surge right at New York City.


Why Sandy Has Meteorologists Scared in 4 Images - Alexis C. Madrigal - The Atlantic



> [According to last night's forecast], the destructive potential of the storm surge was exceptionally high: 5.7 on a scale of 0 to 6," he wrote. "*This is a higher destructive potential than any hurricane observed between 1969 - 2005, including Category 5 storms like Katrina, Rita, Wilma, Camille, and Andrew." *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


while I'm a storm hound I do hope this one underperforms...:yikes:

Some areas of New York are being evacuated

Hurricane Sandy prompts mass evacuation in New York City - World - CBC News

Never heard of this phenomena



> his morning, the Wall Street Journal's Eric Holthaus (@WSJweather), tweeted the following map. "Oh my.... I have never seen so much purple on this graphic. By far. Never," he said. "Folks, please take this storm seriously." The storm is strong *and* huge. And when it encounters the cold air from the north and west, it will develop renewed strength thanks to that interaction, a process known as* "baroclinic enhancement*


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Looks like Toronto will be missed










but starting to get serious near New York and snow in West Virginia already. What nasty mix this is.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I dunno about that MacDoc, that line of bright yellow to the left of the blue path is the most severe part of the system and it runs right through Toronto, does it not?


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Yes its just heavy rain and some wind.
I'm out in it and it's not all that bad .
you can see here how narrow the band is
King City, Ontario - Radar Imagery - Environment Canada

....however....it's worse than they thought off New York


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## winwintoo (Nov 9, 2004)

Here's a cool image of Lady Liberty with the storm hovering.









Here's the link (I think)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=443585805700644&set=a.118519701540591.16649.117036525022242&type=1&ref=nf


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

That's photoshopped
so is this










and this










but this is not










7 pm lower east side Manhattan


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Liberty at Noon today.


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## cap10subtext (Oct 13, 2005)

Dr.G. said:


> Liberty at Noon today.


Holy day after tomorrow! :yikes: Is that real?

Edit: okay, serves me right for not googling in advance... It is from Day after tomorrow...


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## KC4 (Feb 2, 2009)

If you haven't already heard, the replica ship built in Lunenburg N.S. the H.M. S. Bounty has been lost along with two crew members in hurricane Sandy.
Bounty crew member found dead, captain still missing - Nova Scotia - CBC News

We had the privilege of touring this ship when it was docked near our daughter's school ship in Norway and meeting some of the crew. My daughter and her shipmates spent considerably more time with the crew of the Bounty, not only learning more detail about the Bounty, but also showing the crew of the Bounty around their own tall ship. Many students and Bounty crew have stayed in contact over the internet.


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

Heard on Twitter:

Looks like Wall Street needs another bailout.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

That's sad about the Bounty replica 

Also have our first fatality in Toronto.

and some trees down


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Nice here now - 9 degrees with some sun and moderate winds.
7 million without power. 
and a nasty fire in Queens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHV5NwjKZYk


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Man - Sandy really did live up to the hype.... unfortunately.

That Queen's fire MacDoc noted above destroyed upwards of 100 houses...

The Atlantic's In Focus photoblog has a roundup of images that includes the Queen's aftermath (here's one pic):


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

KC4 said:


> If you haven't already heard, the replica ship built in Lunenburg N.S. the H.M. S. Bounty has been lost along with two crew members in hurricane Sandy.


Yeah I read about that. I don't know who the idiot was that thought it was smart to go out in a tall ship before a hurricane. They knew this was coming for days! They had no excuse being out there!


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

MacDoc said:


> That's photoshopped
> so is this


I love that pic! Gotta download it when I'm on my computer!


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

sadder bits 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/31/nyregion/hurricane-sandys-lethal-power-in-many-ways.html?hp&_r=0


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Regarding the Queen's borough fire above, does this fit the definition of ironic?

*Devastated N.Y. community built by firefighters burned beyond their reach*


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Uh-oh.... will Hurricane Sandy have major health repercussions in New York?*

*Did the Superstorm force diseased rats out of the subway?*



> Humans weren’t alone in being displaced earlier this week by the effects of Hurricane Sandy. Video images of flooded subway stations in Lower Manhattan revealed the extent of damage inflicted by the storm surge — flooding that would have surely forced thousands of rats out of the subways and into more populated areas. This has experts worried, and they’re warning that these rats may start to spread diseases like leptospirosis, hantavirus, typhus, salmonella — and even the plague.


(io9.com)


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

For those that were thinking Sandy was over hyped...



> The savage impact of Hurricane Sandy this past week will be recalled by historians for years to come. It was the largest tropical storm ever recorded in the Atlantic. It has caused more than $60 billion damage so far. It has torn apart the lives of millions of Americans in ways that are still being felt


and a 14 foot storm surge when a 4 foot storm surge is a once in 50 year event.

It did not have strong winds but that sucker was big....and wet.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

MacDoc said:


> For those that were thinking Sandy was over hyped...


Just be grateful it wasn't 1954's Hurricane Hazel.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Macfury said:


> Just be grateful it wasn't 1954's Hurricane Hazel.


True. I was 6 years old and have vivid memories of the trees snapped in half and some totally uprooted by Hurricane Hazel. "Though not near the center, a gust of 182 km/h (113 mph) was recorded in Battery Park, the highest wind speed ever recorded within the municipal boundaries of New York City."


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

owww 



> Second storm to hit the North East
> Posted by: KC Orcutt
> Published on: November 2nd, 2012 at 12:00 PM
> 
> ...


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> *New storm threatens region hit by Sandy; tens of thousands still without power*
> Published on Monday November 05, 2012
> Share on twitterShare on facebook
> 
> ...


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

FEMA has failed miserably to come to the aid of the affected in time. Given the lead time, this is unacceptable.


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## cap10subtext (Oct 13, 2005)

I'm surprised power still hasn't been restored. Last night I hear that Tuesday was the earliest. Yikes.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

FEMA does not restore power....just another idiotic rightwingding talking point and a lie as usual



> Officials and experts praising FEMA for its response to Hurricane ...
> www.washingtonpost.com/...praising-fema...sandy/.../7a6629d8-244...Nov 1, 2012 – In storm's aftermath, the agency wins positive reviews from officials and disaster- management experts.


What has been shoddy is the privatized power companies not fulfilling their contracts.



> Boss of NY utility panned for Sandy response quits
> 
> Similar Stories:
> Many on NY's Long Island still dark after Sandy
> ...


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

MacDoc said:


> FEMA does not restore power....just another idiotic rightwingding talking point and a lie as usual


I never said FEMA was supposed to restore power. I am saying that, given the full attention FEMA has shown how little government can accomplish, even with huge lead times. Those who most counted on government to help them are now in the worst shape.

Wayne Anderson: Does FEMA Have a Fatal Internet Fixation?



> On the day that Hurricane Sandy was set to come ashore in New Jersey, Politico reported that FEMA (the Federal Emergency Management Agency) and President Obama were relying solely on the Internet as a means for storm victims to access vital news and emergency information even though there was a widespread expectation of power and cable television failures. In his press briefing on Hurricane Sandy, President Obama wisely beseeched Americans threatened by Sandy to stay indoors and to go online at ready.gov for the latest updates, but the president failed to mention what to do if the power goes out. And the president was apparently not alone in that regard, Politico called FEMA's news desk only to find they didn't have any non-Internet information readily available, except to suggest that people call 911 in an emergency. When asked specifically where storm victims without electricity should turn for information, a FEMA worker said, "Well, those people who have a laptop with a little battery life on it can try that way. Otherwise, you're right."


Camp FEMA Update:



> “We Feel Like We’re In a Concentration Camp”


FEMA disaster center shuttered “due to weather” - Salon.com



> They fly into disaster areas, but flee from raindrops.
> 
> FEMA disaster recovery centers in Hurricane Sandy-ravaged sections of the city that were supposed to provide shelter, food and assistance to hurricane victims went MIA Wednesday morning, posting signs saying that they were closed due to the approaching Nor’easter.
> 
> ...



FEMA Taps Private Vendors to Meet Sandy Victim's Needs



> FEMA's vaunted "lean forward" strategy that called for advanced staging of supplies for emergency distribution failed to live up to its billing in the immediate aftermath of Hurricane Sandy.
> 
> In fact, the agency appears to have been completely unprepared to distribute bottled water to Hurricane Sandy victims when the storm hit this Monday. In contrast to its stated policy, FEMA failed to have any meaningful supplies of bottled water -- or any other supplies, for that matter -- stored in nearby facilities as it had proclaimed it would on its website. This was the case despite several days advance warning of the impending storm.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*10 reported dead in Cuba from Hurricane Irma*










With ports mended and weather cleared, Caribbean officials struggled to get aid to islands devastated by Hurricane Irma on Monday and tried to take full stock of the damage caused by the Category 5 storm.

At least 34 people were reportedly killed across the region, including 10 in Cuba, whose northern coast was raked by the storm. Cuban state news media said most of those died in Havana, where Irma pushed seawater deep into residential neighborhoods.

** * **​
Also hit hard was Cuba, where central Havana neighborhoods along the coast between the Almendares River and the harbor suffered the brunt of the flooding. Seawater penetrated as much as one-third of a mile inland in places.

Cuban state news media on Monday reported 10 deaths despite the country's famed prowess at disaster preparations. More than 1 million people were evacuated from flood-prone areas.

Hector Pulpito recounted a harrowing night at his job as night custodian of a parking lot that flooded five blocks from the sea in Havana's Vedado neighborhood.

"This was the worst of the storms I have been through, and the sea rose much higher," Pulpito said. "The trees were shaking. Metal roofs went flying."

Cuban state television reported severe damage to hotels on the northern keys off Ciego de Avila and Camaguey provinces.

The Communist Party newspaper Granma reported that the Jardines del Rey airport serving the northern keys was destroyed and posted photos to Twitter showing the shattered terminal hall littered with debris.
(Chicago Tribune)​
_________________________________________________________________________


*Hurricane Irma Relief & Reconstruction for Cuba Campaign *

To assist Cuba in its immense efforts of recovery and reconstruction, the Canadian Network On Cuba (CNC) is launching the Hurricane Irma Relief & Reconstruction for Cuba Campaign.

** * **​
Donations to the Hurricane Irma Relief & Reconstruction for Cuba Campaign can be made by mailing cheques made out to the Canadian Network on Cuba to: 
CNC Hurricane Relief, 
56 Riverwood Terrace 
Bolton, ON L7E 1S4.​Please write "*CNC Hurricane Irma Relief Fund*" on your cheque's memo line.

All donations will be forwarded 100% directly to Cuba.

In recent years, the CNC has had a series of successful Hurricane Relief Campaigns. The most recent was in 2016 when Hurricane Matthew struck eastern Cuba, devastating Baracoa, Cuba’s oldest city. In 2008, the CNC’s most extensive campaign was launched when a series of hurricanes caused damage in excess of $10-billion. The CNC not only raised hundreds of thousands of dollars, but also directly participated in the construction of a new social and cultural centre on La Isla de La Juventud (Isle of Youth).
(Canadian Network on Cuba)​
____________________________________

*Irma: Cuba sends hundreds of doctors to Caribbean islands devastated by hurricane*
_More than 750 health workers arrive in Antigua, Barbuda, Saint Kitts, Nevis, Saint Lucia, the Bahamas, Dominica and Haiti_










The nation of 11 million people has a history of sending medical staff when other nations are in need, having done so during west Africa's Ebola crisis in 2014 and 2015.

A brigade of more than 600 Cuban health workers went to Sierra Leone in 2014 to help tackle the crisis. 

They also sent 1,200 health workers to Haiti after the nation was hit with an earthquake in 2010.

Cuba’s international medical mission has won the socialist state many friends.

This tradition can be traced back to 1960, when Cuba sent a group of doctors to Chile, who had been hit by a powerful earthquake, followed by a team of 50 to Algeria in 1963.
(Independent UK)​


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Mark I think most nations are trying their best. Some have more resources and some less and some due to their location have it a little easier logistically to get the needed relief to those who are suffering. Also there is the difference in legislative processes. In Canada due to our legislative system where everything has to be debated it slows things down a lot.


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