# More Quebec bashing: The rise of Quebecistan



## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Another disgusting article by the National Pest...


> So it has. On Sunday, 15,000 Quebecers, mostly Lebanese-Canadians, marched for "justice and peace" in Lebanon. That sounds benign, but in fact the march was a virulently anti-Israel rally, and scattered amongst the crowd were a number of Hezbollah flags and placards. Leading the parade were Bloc Quebecois chief Gilles Duceppe, Liberal MP Denis Coderre, PQ chief Andre Boisclair, and Amir Khadir, spokesman for the new far-left provincial party, Solidarite Quebec.
> 
> As a sop to the Quebec-Israel Committee, which had taken out full-page ads calling on the march's leaders to condemn terrorism, however, they called for the disarming of Hezbollah as part of a negotiated ceasefire._ (This is the ad that tried to recall/associate with Nazis)_
> 
> ...


http://www.barbarakay.ca/archive/20060809theriseofquebecistan.html

Now imagine if a French Quebecer had written that article - the outrage across the country would be enormous. When I read such garbage, I sometimes think Quebec should separate. 

Now I wonder what words she will have for Ontario seeing how the Israel flag was burnt this weekend....
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...le&cid=1155420635668&call_pageid=968332188492


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

Revolting would describe that piece well, in fact.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

I'm sure those in the Asper bunker approved that article.
I can also see Harpo tearing his hair out.

oh, and tell me again how the Pest doesn't have an agenda?


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> I'm sure those in the Asper bunker approved that article.
> I can also see Harpo tearing his hair out.


Start making sense. If the article accurately describes the support given to Hezbollah at a rally in Montreal--support which has been illegal in this country for a long time, a situation apparently unlikely to change with the current government--then you have a group of politicians making some scary points off not only the misery of displaced Lebanese-Canadians but the threat of harm to other Canadians here and other people abroad.

It's no secret that anti-Semitic incidents have been increasing in the last few years. Turning over headstones at graveyards, smashing windows and burning synagogues, as if this was the 1930s.

Lobbing that Asper remark in can only make people wonder if you side with the racists in that parade in Quebec. Do you?


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

HowEver said:


> * If *the article accurately describes the support given to Hezbollah at a rally in Montreal--support which has been illegal in this country for a long time, a situation apparently unlikely to change with the current government--then you have a group of politicians making some scary points off not only the misery of displaced Lebanese-Canadians but the threat of harm to other Canadians here and other people abroad.


That's a big "if". The politicians mostly spoke of the victims. 
Nice nose stretcher about the "thread of harm", I see you in full scare mode...


HowEver said:


> It's no secret that anti-Semitic incidents have been increasing in the last few years.


I don't have the numbers for this year, but I believe they actually have gone down (although I expect a rise this year). 



HowEver said:


> Lobbing that Asper remark in can only make people wonder if you side with the racists in that parade in Quebec. Do you?


Racist parade? Really? lol....


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

From the article:
.............
As a sop to the Quebec-Israel Committee, which had taken out full-page ads calling on the march's leaders to condemn terrorism, however, *they called for the disarming of Hezbollah as part of a negotiated ceasefire.

For this, they were roundly booed by the crowd.
*.............
Left-wing Quebec intellectuals and politicians (Pierre Trudeau being an obvious example) have always enjoyed flirtations with causes that wrap themselves in the mantle of "liberation" from colonialist oppressors -- including their very own home-grown Front de Liberation du Quebec (FLQ), which gave them a frisson of pleasure as it sowed terror throughout Canada in the late '60s with mailbox bombs, kidnappings and a murder. Their cultural and historical sympathy for Arab countries from the francophonie -- Morocco, Algeria, Lebanon -- joined with reflexive anti-Americanism and a fat streak of anti-Semitism that has marbled the intellectual discourse of Quebec throughout its history, has made Quebec the most anti-Israel of the provinces, and therefore the most vulnerable to tolerance for Islamist terrorist sympathizers.
.............

I don't like the zealous tone in the article, but vague anger at that without the context of some really nasty anti-Israeli sentiment emerging is myopic. Still, the writer did a poor job while the AS-editor did a worse one.


From the second article:
.............
While some waved flags, and others donned yellow T-shirts with green guns, symbolizing the Hezbollah flag, Shaheen Sajan was one of a dozen who proudly carried a poster of Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah.

"The ban of Hezbollah is just a political move. This group provides most of the people's basic needs like hospitals and schools. This ban makes no sense. Even UN resolution says one has the right to resist occupation. There is no real definition of what's a terrorist. I'd say Israel is a terrorist group because they're flaunting UN resolutions."
.............


I also saw a march in Ottawa. An occasional chant was the standard, "The people united, shall never be defeated." The people are united behind...? Possibly empty gestures. That's something the vast majority of us can get behind as demostrated by history.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

the aspers have a very obvious bias and agenda and they have a media empire whilst stating they have no agenda
recall the pest's front page headline citing the use of yellow stars for jews in iran
a front page article that was later retracted in the pay-only part of their website

people see a very well armed israeli military killing civilians and that doesn't play 
very well in most of canada and a PM that uses phrases like 'measured response'
death tolls are over 10:1 for lebanese:israelis
israel has a green light from the u.s. for 30 days to get rid of hezbollah and that logic backfired

canadians unlike our u.s. cousins are a "peace first" kind of people
a majority of cdn. don't support the mission in afghanistan

the UN map posted elsewhere on this board showing arab and jewish lands with jerusalem as a UN protectorate seems to be more genius, but we can't re-visit the past and i don't see israel ever giving up control of jersalem


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Beej said:


> From the article:
> .............
> As a sop to the Quebec-Israel Committee, which had taken out full-page ads calling on the march's leaders to condemn terrorism, however, *they called for the disarming of Hezbollah as part of a negotiated ceasefire.
> 
> ...


Beej, I have posted that ad - the one where they tried to taint all Muslims as Nazis. If you think their ad was "tempered" or even "just" then you have some problems of optics.... Yes they asked for the disarming of Hezbollah but in the context of their hate filled propaganda, I think the crowd acted reasonably (at least they did not burn Israeli flags...)

My focus was on the demonizing of Quebec.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Beej said:


> F
> I don't like the zealous tone in the article, but vague anger at that without the context of some really nasty anti-Israeli sentiment emerging is myopic. Still, the writer did a poor job while the AS-editor did a worse one.


Funny that what you call "zealous" what amounts to hate filled garbage. I don't think that the writer was even at that march - 15 000 marchers and extensive news coverage in Quebec- funny how English Canada picked up on the fringe elements. 

Again, for the Beej criticizing Israel = anti-semite.


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## markceltic (Jun 4, 2005)

Time for a new view http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/jewishsociety/Hatred_in_Canada.asp


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Funny how the article can so easily distort the incident with Concordia University and Netanyahu....
So I guess we should let student groups such as Hillel run the school the way they want lest it be considered a anti-Semite act....


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## trump (Dec 7, 2004)

I had a pretty lengthy response ready to go, but threads like these usually get me in trouble...so I'll pass


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

trump said:


> I had a pretty lengthy response ready to go, but threads like these usually get me in trouble...so I'll pass


PM it then.... I'm curious.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

trump said:


> I had a pretty lengthy response ready to go, but threads like these usually get me in trouble...so I'll pass


then the terrorists have truly won


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

The number of anti-Semitic incidents has risen each year for the past five years, in Canada.

The behaviour at the event was clearly racist; it fits the textbook definition of racism. So it was a racist march.

The marchers clearly want a certain result for Israel that involves more than staying within its own borders, no matter what the threat from outside. What do you want to happen?



ArtistSeries said:


> That's a big "if". The politicians mostly spoke of the victims.
> Nice nose stretcher about the "thread of harm", I see you in full scare mode...
> 
> I don't have the numbers for this year, but I believe they actually have gone down (although I expect a rise this year).
> ...


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## trump (Dec 7, 2004)

alright, AS read my point via PM and seemed to be cool about it...so I'll post what I wrote in the PM for all to see:



> unfortunately, I did not save my reply. It was primarily in response to your comment about English Canadian media demonizing Quebec. I've always felt that there is this huge double standard in our country whereby Quebec (well, the Separatists primarily) can throw as much mud at Anglophones as they please, but not vice versa. It's as if English Canadians aren't allowed to voice disdain of separatists or Quebec in general but rather have to just sit and listen to a daily barrage of near-hate pouring out of Quebec
> 
> on a side note, I do not hate Quebec. I've merely grown tired of this tension between the English and French. I'm too young to know a pre-refferendum Canada afterall


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

HowEver said:


> The behaviour at the event was clearly racist; it fits the textbook definition of racism. So it was a racist march.
> 
> The marchers clearly want a certain result for Israel that involves more than staying within its own borders, no matter what the threat from outside. What do you want to happen?


Bull**** -
Just because some citizens march against an oppressive aggression on the part of Israel it's racist?
I've read more Arab/Muslim/Lebanese racism on this board than I'm comfortable with.

You want to disarm Hezbollah so you reduce Lebanon to the stone-age? Yeah, that will work....


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Trump, there was no need to censure what you wanted to post. 

There is a "blame the English" mentality with many separatists. I've noticed that in many Quebecois novel/movies/TV shows the "bad guys" are all English. 
In the novel "Le Matou" you have two anti-heros, both English.
That trend (where bad guys are English) seems to be on the way down - maybe because there is more self-confidence in the culture....


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

I never said I wanted one thing or another to happen to Hezbollah. What _would_ I like? I'll say it now: I'd like them to stop making political points out of hatred, out of bombing people they explicitly say they want to destroy, to stop saying it and doing it, and do something positive instead, which they do appear capable of doing--if only to win trust long enough to place their military headquarters downtown. But Hezbollah can't exactly renounce terrorism; it's why they exist.

This has nothing to do with their being Muslim, or being funded by Iranians or Syrians. If you can't see that, it's because you don't want to. You're very conflicted this way.

In Israel, Jews, Arabs and Christians walk side by side in peace, go to school together, marry, live and now and then die together at the hands of the bombs and bombers who do *not* discriminate when killing Israelis.

I did ask what *you* wanted to happen, and you didn't answer, as usual.

And yes, a march that supports Hezbollah, which Canada recognizes as a terrorist organization, is by nature racist. Supporting Hezbollah, aside from breaking the law in Canada, supports more violence. This is not a peaceful organization, it is one that directs hatred at others. Specific others.





ArtistSeries said:


> Bull**** -
> Just because some citizens march against an oppressive aggression on the part of Israel it's racist?
> I've read more Arab/Muslim/Lebanese racism on this board than I'm comfortable with.
> 
> You want to disarm Hezbollah so you reduce Lebanon to the stone-age? Yeah, that will work....


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

HowEver said:


> I did ask what *you* wanted to happen, and you didn't answer, as usual.


Israel gets out of Lebanon - stops undermining legitimate governments and by doing so removes the reasons for the rise of Hezbollah in the first place.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Hezbollah wants Israel and all Jews dead. That isn't over-stating anything: it's what they want. 13,000 katyusha rockets tell the story pretty well. They aren't aimed _north_.

Of course, according to you, it's Israel's fault that all the Arab countries attacked Israel the day it was formed (instead of accepting the U.N. planned two-state reality they could have had). It's Israel's faulty, according to you, that they keep getting attacked ever since; that they kept the land they claimed in 1967 as a buffer against getting attacked again--after getting attacked on Yom Kippur and then driving the Arab states attacking them back.

Now, it's Israel's fault that Hezbollah attacks them--you say Israel gave rise to Hezbollah "in the first place."

The hell with it. Perhaps Israel should _impose_ democracy on Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Palestine and all the rest. Women in the Arab countries will get the basic human rights they deserve, and children will stop begin taught hatred from the time they are young.

Of course, even then Israel will be blamed for... what? Too much freedom? Letting people live together in peace?

Right. There will never be a reason to stop blaming them. We're talking about thousands of years of blame here. Why stop now? Will you?




ArtistSeries said:


> Israel gets out of Lebanon - stops undermining legitimate governments and by doing so removes the reasons for the rise of Hezbollah in the first place.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

You are amusing HowEver..... Israel right or wrong but mostly wrong....


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## Voyager (Aug 7, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> Israel gets out of Lebanon - stops undermining legitimate governments and by doing so removes the reasons for the rise of Hezbollah in the first place.


Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Israel get out of Lebanon in 2000? Shouldn't Hezbollah's reason for being have ended with that withdrawal? (Shaba Farms should be kept out of this since the UN itself has said it belongs to Syria not lebanon.)

Voyager


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Voyager said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Israel get out of Lebanon in 2000? Shouldn't Hezbollah's reason for being have ended with that withdrawal? (Shaba Farms should be kept out of this since the UN itself has said it belongs to Syria not lebanon.)


Yes they did - after being an occupying force. 
You'll have to go further back in history and see some of the seeds that were planted there also...


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## Voyager (Aug 7, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> Funny how the article can so easily distort the incident with Concordia University and Netanyahu.....


How is the "incident" distorted. That's basically what happened. Windows at the Hall Building were broken and Netanyahu was physically not allowed on campus. Free speech was only allowed one way, those who were pro Palestinean. The student government( elected by what 14% of the student body) also advocated a policy that certainly seemed somewhat one sided.

Voyager


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

I find it interesting how the left wing affiliates itself with radical Islam. I am surprised the NDP didn't take part in this march.


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## Voyager (Aug 7, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> Yes they did - after being an occupying force.
> You'll have to go further back in history and see some of the seeds that were planted there also...


And why did Israel go into lebanon in the first place? To stop the PLO attacks on northern Israel. And why was the PLO in southern Lebanon? They were forced out of Jordan by the Jordanian army after they became a threat to the reigning king. At some point you have to stop using "history" as an excuse or it will never end.

Voyager


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## Voyager (Aug 7, 2005)

Vandave said:


> I find it interesting how the left wing affiliates itself with radical Islam. I am surprised the NDP didn't take part in this march.




Maybe they wern't invited. 

Voyager


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Somebody at the Ottawa march had a CUPE flag. Good on them for standing in solidarity with Hez's pro-union policies.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> Yes they did - after being an occupying force.
> You'll have to go further back in history and see some of the seeds that were planted there also...


And why did they occupy Lebanon in 1982? Guess you don't want to mention that.

Fatah had killed Israel's ambassador to the U.K., and the P.L.O. was firing rockets at Israel from south Lebanon.

Kind of makes you wish they never left in 2000 so that this current attack on Israel wouldn't have happened.


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## Voyager (Aug 7, 2005)

Beej said:


> Somebody at the Ottawa march had a CUPE flag. Good on them for standing in solidarity with Hez's pro-union policies.


Didn't you know the CUPE executive adopted a boycott Israel resolution?


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Voyager said:


> How is the "incident" distorted. That's basically what happened. Windows at the Hall Building were broken and Netanyahu was physically not allowed on campus. Free speech was only allowed one way, those who were pro Palestinean. The student government( elected by what 14% of the student body) also advocated a policy that certainly seemed somewhat one sided.


You have a bunch of Pro-Zionist bigots who were out to provoke... They should of expelled the lot of them....
Not the first incident of that at Concordia, not the last....


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

Beej said:


> Somebody at the Ottawa march had a CUPE flag. Good on them for standing in solidarity with Hez's pro-union policies.


Yes, those rocket manufacturers in Iran and Syria deserve a good health care plan and pension.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Voyager said:


> Didn't you know the CUPE executive adopted a boycott Israeli products resolution?


Yep. I pointed it out at the time. Almost no one commented on the inappropriateness of it. But let's not open the 'union' can of worms; because it is interwoven with the stupidity of what CUPE did.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Beej said:


> Somebody at the Ottawa march had a CUPE flag. Good on them for standing in solidarity with Hez's pro-union policies.


Wow Beej - your BS quotient is rather hight lately... Unless there is some joke in here...


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Vandave said:


> Yes, those rocket manufacturers in Iran and Syria deserve a good health care plan and pension.


Just like the ones supplying Israel with all those weapons....


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Beej said:


> Yep. I pointed it out at the time. Almost no one commented on the inappropriateness of it. But let's not open the 'union' can of worms; because it is interwoven with the stupidity of what CUPE did.


Because some unions have a social conscience you get pissed-off?
Ha!


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> Because some unions have a social conscience you get pissed-off?
> Ha!


Are you being intentionally obtuse? If so, continue as you were.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> Just like the ones supplying Israel with all those weapons....


Of course... Israel and Hezbollah are moral equivalents.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Vandave said:


> Of course... Israel and Hezbollah are moral equivalents.


I'm surprised we've gone this far without the Israel-as-terrorist, Israel-as-fascist, Israel's apartheid, and Israel's holocaust BS that usually comes out of the quick equivalency arguments.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Beej said:


> I'm surprised we've gone this far without the Israel-as-terrorist, Israel-as-fascist, Israel's apartheid, and Israel's holocaust BS that usually comes out of the quick equivalency arguments.


That's right Beej - only Jews can accuse Hezbollah and all Arabs of being Nazis...without you being upset...


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Here we go. They were "provoked" into being racists.

Once again, blame Jewish people. This isn't a trend; it's a landslide.




ArtistSeries said:


> You have a bunch of Pro-Zionist bigots who were out to provoke... They should of expelled the lot of them....
> Not the first incident of that at Concordia, not the last....


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> Kind of makes you wish they never left in 2000 so that this current attack on Israel wouldn't have happened.


several hundred dead lebanese may disagree with you on that one


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> That's right Beej - only Jews can accuse Hezbollah and all Arabs of being Nazis...without you being upset...


You mean that lengthy historical article? If it's innaccurate, then go point that out in the thread. As I said, I can't speak to the detailed history. But this is quite obvious, so I guess you are being intentionally obtuse. 

You already seem to have abandoned the "This is Israel's fault due to the occupation" line.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

HowEver said:


> Here we go. They were "provoked" into being racists.
> Once again, blame Jewish people. This isn't a trend; it's a landslide.


almost as ridiculous as "blame hezbollah" for dead lebanese civilians


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

No HowEver, if you have ever studied or taught at Concordia during that time, you'd have a little of the history. 
The inviting of prominent Israeli persons was done to provoke - there is nothing racist there. It was a security risk for the school, it was done with malicious intent, and controversial. They wanted a reaction - they got one.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Beej said:


> You mean that lengthy historical article? If it's innaccurate, then go point that out in the thread. As I said, I can't speak to the detailed history. But this is quite obvious, so I guess you are being intentionally obtuse.


No, not that article. Although articles from crackpots can be amusing....

I like your selective memory Beej - amusing also...




Beej said:


> You already seem to have abandoned the "This is Israel's fault due to the occupation" line.


Are you mixing up Hamas and Hezbollah per chance?

Foreign policy affects you down the road....


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> I like your selective memory Beej - amusing also...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Speaking of selective memory...you were just recently trying to blame Israel for Hez due to their pre-2000 occupation (and more). You were countered, and now nothing. I thought it was great because, what with you consistently trying to use selective historical justification, that you would either come back with something or begin campaigning against Jordan and blaming them for this mess. Either way, I was hoping for a little more from that line of discussion.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

I don't think you're managing to follow along properly.



MACSPECTRUM said:


> several hundred dead lebanese may disagree with you on that one


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

No doubt about it, the Post has gone too far. Time for Quebec to leave.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Macfury said:


> No doubt about it, the Post has gone too far. Time for Quebec to leave.


I blame Winnipeg and demand restitution for having been forced to live there.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Wow, the Beej and MF duo - always ready with stupidities....


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Hezbollah was created in part because of Israel ñ they wanted them out of Lebanon. 

Now there is a lot of demonizing and half-truths about them.
The goal of the destruction of Israel is the first one.


> Despite the strident rhetoric, in recent interviews Nasrallah has answered questions concerning the establishment of a Palestinian state established alongside an Israeli state in a way which suggested that the organization no longer has the intent to destroy the state of Israel. . Hezbollahís present leadership disclaims any interest in contesting Israelís right to exist outside of disputed territories.[4] In a 2003 interview, Nasrallah stated that "at the end of the road no one can go to war on behalf of the Palestinians, even if that one is not in agreement with what the Palestinians agreed on."[35] "Of course, it would bother us that Jerusalem goes to Israel... [but] let it happen. I would not say O.K. I would say nothing."[35]
> In 2004, when asked whether he was prepared to live with a two-state settlement between Israel and Palestine, Nasrallah said he would not sabotage what is a Palestinian matter.[4] He also clarified that outside of Lebanon, Hezbollah will act only in a defensive manner towards Israeli forces, and that Hezbollah's missiles were acquired to deter attacks on Lebanon.[36]
> Nasrallah has a history of making anti-Semitic statements (most infamously ìif they [Jews] all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwideî[37]). Hezbollah's website, however, marks a distinction between "Zionist ideology" and Judaism. It sees the rejection of Zionism as an attitude hold across "races, religions, and nationalities". It likens Zionism to "the concept of creating 'Israel' by the use of force and violence, by stealing the Arabsí lands and killing Palestinians". "[O]pposing the Zionists ideology is not opposing setting a home for Jews".[38]


Source wiki.

You may also want to read on their position on women's rights (more progressive than you may imagine).

Suicide bombing since Israel left Lebanon (they have not used that since 1999). 

The civil wing of Hezbollah seems to be delivering services to the population (yes with Iranian monies)

Now, we won't get into the targeted assassinations carried out by Israel or encouraged by them....

Blowback - it's a bitch...


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> Wow, the Beej and MF duo - always ready with stupidities....


Before you toss that stone, relax, they were just jokes. Or do you consider them to be provoking a reaction?  Also, you may not have noticed the steaming pile your pet dropped off. Must have been an oversight because you are, if nothing else, even-handed. :lmao:


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

I'll have to read what Spec wrote....

I'd blame fetal alcohol syndrome before Winnipeg - but then again by the way you have described the place, I don't blame Mom for drinking...


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

ArtistSeries said:


> I'll have to read what Spec wrote....
> 
> I'd blame fetal alcohol syndrome before Winnipeg - but then again by the way you have described the place, I don't blame Mom for drinking...


I wonder if animal control has a Beej-trap?
would be $50 well spent...


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## Voyager (Aug 7, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> Because some unions have a social conscience you get pissed-off?
> Ha!



It was never voted on by the general membership.

Voyager


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## Voyager (Aug 7, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> You have a bunch of Pro-Zionist bigots who were out to provoke... They should of expelled the lot of them....
> Not the first incident of that at Concordia, not the last....



Gee, I must have missed the "Pro-Zionist" riots at Concordia? When did they happen? You are right though, Concordia should have expelled some of the students, but I'm thinking more of the part-time, professional students who were advocating a violent Pro-Palistinean position. They have contributed to Concordia to getting a lot of unneeded, unwanted negative publicity.

Voyager


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## markceltic (Jun 4, 2005)

The National Post seems to be your favourite Artist. Would you have anything other publication you'd like to use as an example of what is supposedly wrong with the world? ` On a side note I'm thinking of changing my sig to" Vive la capitalism",


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Now markceltic, "vive la democratie" would of been better.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

or with recent events in la belle provence; "Vive le Quebec libre !"


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> or with recent events in la belle provence; "Vive le Quebec libre !"


I'm sure that many feel that way - but then again, Harper will try his hardest to bent over for la Belle Province (he does want that majority after all- screw ethics, principals and Canada).


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> I'm sure that many feel that way - but then again, Harper will try his hardest to bent over for la Belle Province (he does want that majority after all- screw ethics, principals and Canada).


The Federal paradox? Still, this must be kept in mind when various claims of bending over for Alberta, the U.S., and other groups are made. This is a Federal government and it has much bending over to do, perceived or real, ideological or practical, tin foil or otherwise. Does anyone else find it amusing that a Western prime minister must bend over to gain favour with Quebec...just like Eastern prime ministers? Still, if he weren't, he'd be accused of acting to break up the country and various Alberta-related slurs may be made. And Canada continues to along its merry way.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Harper isn't bending over for Québec, he's just making it appear that he is doing so. As they all would/are.

Then again, so is the Bloc. There have been a few concessions lobbed their way given their presence in the federal parliament, but what have they actually obtained for Québecers, even over time? Mostly the federal government has divested itself of responsibilities that it's glad to hand over to the provinces.

Harper can promise anything, still. It's not like he has time to deliver on it. The campaign continues.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

HowEver said:


> Harper isn't bending over for Québec, he's just making it appear that he is doing so. As they all would/are.
> 
> Then again, so is the Bloc. There have been a few concessions lobbed their way given their presence in the federal parliament, but what have they actually obtained for Québecers, even over time? Mostly the federal government has divested itself of responsibilities that it's glad to hand over to the provinces.
> 
> Harper can promise anything, still. It's not like he has time to deliver on it. The campaign continues.


Good points. A lot of it is sporadic regional pork and continued protection for dairy, although I'm not sure dairy protection is solely a QC thing...just mostly.  Regarding regional pork, Atlantic Canada gets its share too. Bilingual hiring rules clearly favour QC, but also have a national identity role. 

I think, when you look at the totality, a lot of decisions that could have gone either way went a very specific way, although by themselves they are rather innocuous. Maybe it's too early to tell with Harper, but the indications seem to favour more of the same.


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## trump (Dec 7, 2004)

from left field...
how in gods name does the Bloc/PQ still exist? What the hell does Quebec want that they currently don't have? Also, they've received everything the PQ demanded when they first formed, so shouldn't that be destroying their current cause? Everything about those damned parties pisses me off


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

trump said:


> from left field...
> how in gods name does the Bloc/PQ still exist? What the hell does Quebec want that they currently don't have? Also, they've received everything the PQ demanded when they first formed, so shouldn't that be destroying their current cause? Everything about those damned parties pisses me off


Oooohhhh, cue the flame throwers.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

I wonder if it's occurred to any of you that debate on a message board rarely proves anything except that you are better at mastering the language and cant of message boards. 

The vast majority of those who argue are entrenched in certainties anyway, so it's just this intellectual joust that has no real basis in feeling and reciprocity. 

Just my two cents. I didn't bother reading the actual thread. :lmao:


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

imachungry said:


> The vast majority of those who argue are entrenched in certainties anyway, so it's just this intellectual joust that has no real basis in feeling and reciprocity.


I'll ignore this post, as it has no real basis in feeling.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

trump said:


> from left field...
> how in gods name does the Bloc/PQ still exist? What the hell does Quebec want that they currently don't have? Also, they've received everything the PQ demanded when they first formed, so shouldn't that be destroying their current cause? Everything about those damned parties pisses me off


The Bloc exist because they get enough votes every time.

The PQ exist because the Liberals here are so inept. 

Please remember that Quebec society is polarised 50/50 with regards to separation. 
The PQ has not achieved Statehood.

On the social agenda, the PQ/Bloc are much better than the Libs. On the federal level the Bloc does make sense as it has no allegiance when it comes to many issues.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

You did a good job articulating your message, very convincing...




imachungry said:


> I wonder if it's occurred to any of you that debate on a message board rarely proves anything except that you are better at mastering the language and cant of message boards.
> 
> The vast majority of those who argue are entrenched in certainties anyway, so it's just this intellectual joust that has no real basis in feeling and reciprocity.
> 
> Just my two cents. I didn't bother reading the actual thread. :lmao:


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> Please remember that Quebec society is polarised 50/50 with regards to separation.


Do you get the sense that it is 50/50 with regards to true separation into a completely independent country, or just a materially different balance of power?


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Beej said:


> Do you get the sense that it is 50/50 with regards to true separation into a completely independent country, or just a materially different balance of power?


No clue Beej - just that in referendums and polls the numbers are always around 50/50. The polls are often worded differently, so no real "standard".


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## mikeinmontreal (Oct 13, 2005)

I always thought it was 40% for each side, with the 20% undecided, which actually decided the outcome. Too early for this talk. Next year, when the PQ win the election, then everyone can start bitchin'.


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## Voyager (Aug 7, 2005)

mikeinmontreal said:


> I always thought it was 40% for each side, with the 20% undecided, which actually decided the outcome. Too early for this talk. Next year, when the PQ win the election, then everyone can start bitchin'.



Probably fairly close to the truth. But you have to wonder what people are basing their stands on. In some polls Quebecers seemed to want an independent Quebec in a strong united Canada. And the last two Referendum questions were somewhat convoluted. It would be interesting to see the result of a clear question: Do you want to be an independent country (using only you own resources and sources of revenue)? 

Voyager


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## mikeinmontreal (Oct 13, 2005)

Yup, the question is definitely important for the 20%ers. For the 40-40, it doesn't matter. You're either a No or a Oui. We'll see; but it's going to come up sooner than we think and bite us in the ass.


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