# "The remarkable new Governor-General".....



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> Wednesday, September 28, 2005 Posted at 4:26 AM EDT
> From Wednesday's Globe and Mail
> 
> OTTAWA — Her promise is the promise of what we almost are, of what we want to be. She is the becoming Canada.
> ...


 :clap:

Edit:


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. Please at least provide a link. As it stands the article is posted verbatim while the image is being leeched from the G&M's site.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

macdoc,
you getting all "mushy" on us?
or is it that the blood rushes somewhere else other than your brain when you gaze upon the GG?


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

And then here husband walks by and you think "Why?"


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Nothing to do with her specifically - the article is excellent



> The millions -- no, the many millions -- who are in our land today having arrived from somewhere else can tell us of real wounds, real pain, a pain known to those who came here a quarter century ago from a ravaged Southeast Asia, or half a century ago from a ravaged Europe. Our new Governor-General knows this pain.
> "The story of that little girl, who watched her parents, her family, and her friends grappling with the horrors of a ruthless dictatorship, who became the woman standing before you today, is a lesson in learning to be free," she declared.
> Those who came before can take life-fulfilling pride in knowing that they created the country that brought her here, and her brothers and sisters from Sri Lanka and Somalia and Lebanon and Guatemala. They created a place where she could be free because all are free.
> Now a new Canada seeks to fashion a new kind of freedom, the freedom to renounce ethnic perimeters, the freedom for all to embrace all. Michaëlle Jean is their voice.


YOU better than most should understand what he's driving at in the article. She's a symbol and welcome one and what I've been talking about in the past - that the GG role as a non political representative of Canada should be.



> *We are an entirely different country from the one reflected in the words and faces of those who lead us *-- old faces, old men, who nurse ancient animosities and scratch at phantom wounds.


Indeed.....


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

While I don't support the office and role of the GG, I feel that Ms. Jean shall be a breath of fresh air as a unifying factor in our country. We shall see.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Perhaps in her you'll see why I see a real benefit to Canadians of the GG role and a needed part of and yet apart from the "apparatus" of political government.

Whatever you wish to call the office - the role I think is an important one.


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

If it takes a powerless remnant of a pointless monarchy to breathe some life into the corrupt, stagnant and selfish halls of power, then so be it.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

MacDoc said:


> She's a symbol and welcome one and what I've been talking about in the past - that the GG role as a non political representative of Canada should be. Indeed.....


A photo cutline in today's Edmonton Journal would seem to dispute your view in the minds of most non Quebec Canadians:

"Michelle Jean beams after being sworn in Tuesday as Canada's 27th Governor General in Ottawa and delivering her first vice-regal speech, clearly crafted to put to rest any lingering doubts about her dedication to a united Canada. Jean, a well-known media personality in Quebec, became the Queen's representative in Canada on the same day a freshly published poll suggests she is a more popular pick among Quebecers than among other Canadians. The poll, conducted for CTV, said 71 per cent of Quebecers think Jean is a good choice to succeed Adrienne Clarkson. The figure was only 38 per cent in the rest of Canada."

MacDoc's gushing views on Ms. Jean are not shared by the majority of Canadians outside Quebec. 

Not surprising considering many Canadians think the office should be abolished entirely, and the sooner the better.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

RevMatt said:


> If it takes a powerless remnant of a pointless monarchy to breathe some life into the corrupt, stagnant and selfish halls of power, then so be it.


 Maybe if it takes the GG to do this, then the role isn't powerless and the monarchy isn't pointless. Her function is to, in some part, succeed where mob-rule/libertarianism and blatant vote-buying (that most democratic of acts) fails, and do it without violating individual freedom.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> Not surprising considering many Canadians think the office should be abolished entirely, and the sooner the better.


no argument here
and get rid of that retirement home for political hacks, the Senate too
that building would be nice for luxury condos since it overlooks the river


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

SINC said:


> MacDoc's gushing views on Ms. Jean are not shared by the majority of Canadians outside Quebec.


It would be interesting to see what the poll's results would be if taken now. Hopefully the media outlet or polling firm will follow-up with an identical poll.


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

Beej said:


> Maybe if it takes the GG to do this, then the role isn't powerless and the monarchy isn't pointless. Her function is to, in some part, succeed where mob-rule/libertarianism and blatant vote-buying (that most democratic of acts) fails, and do it without violating individual freedom.


you have a good point. I friend of mine said: "Maybe Michaëlle will dissolve Parliament and rule as a monarchist", to which I could only say "would anyone care?"

Not sure if that would or would not violate my individual freedom, since, as a non-rich person, I am largely irrelevant in the current system. Would making that irrelevance clear really change things much?


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

RevMatt said:


> you have a good point. I friend of mine said: "Maybe Michaëlle will dissolve Parliament and rule as a monarchist", to which I could only say "would anyone care?"
> 
> Not sure if that would or would not violate my individual freedom, since, as a non-rich person, I am largely irrelevant in the current system. Would making that irrelevance clear really change things much?


 The strenght of democracy is in its succession structure. A great and benevolent dictator can take a nation beyond what milque-toast democracies are capable of, but who takes over after they die or if they become senile? The monarchy/dictator structure is too volatile and not remotely based on merit, whereas democracy is at least remotely based on it.

The advantage that we have, as long as Parliament isn't dissolved, is getting a chance to be inspired by a benevolent leader, while having the ability to completely ignore them if they don't suit our fancy or stop dressing fashionably. 

Besides, without the racour, grandstanding and false indignation of question period, there's nothing else to watch on CPAC.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> MacDoc's gushing views on Ms. Jean are not shared by the majority of Canadians outside Quebec.


I personally have not said a word about her other than 
a) the office is important in my view
b) she's a good choice for that office.

If you call that "gushing" I guess that's reflective of your critical faculties 

You neglect in your 'poll' commentary to include this



> Overall, *30 per cent of respondents said they simply don't know enough about Jean to say whether or not she'll be good in her new job.*
> 
> However,* the poll results seem to suggest that as Canadians get to know their new Governor General better, Jean can expect her popularity to rise.*
> 
> After hearing the broad outline of her life story, starting from Jean's childhood in Haiti to her emigration and successful career as a multilingual broadcaster, her approval rating jumped from 46 per cent to 63 per cent.


http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...al_jeanpoll_20050926/20050926?hub=CTVNewsAt11

Aside from that - she's NOT elected she's appointed and voters can express their displeasure...or not... sometime in Feb next year after the Gomery report is released and the criminal proceedings completed .

••

The point of my post was the article on the nature of Canada which of course you don't comment on at all. ....forest 'n trees n all I guess.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Merde, Sinc, le Canada n'est pas seulement blanc et anglais....


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ArtistSeries said:


> Merde, Sinc, le Canada n'est pas seulement blanc et anglais....


Sorry ArtistSeries, but as you well know, I do not understand French.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

I know... 



My Canada is not only white and English, Sinc.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

:clap:.......exactly. 

BTW devil in the details 'n all.........the title of this post is the title of the *article.*


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

AS, not to "stir the pot", but I don't think you gave Sinc an accurate translation of your statement. Of course, I don't read/write much French anymore, so I might be incorrect in my translation. Paix, mon ami.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ArtistSeries said:


> I know...
> 
> 
> 
> My Canada is not only white and English, Sinc.


Nor is mine AS, but I hear more Chinese, Vietnamese, Ukranian, German and Spanish spoken daily than French. Fewer than 3 per cent of Albertans speak French.

But I guess "rubbing our noses" in French is Canadian too, is it?


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

SINC said:


> Nor is mine AS, but I hear more Chinese, Vietnamese, Ukranian, German and Spanish spoken daily than French. Fewer than 3 per cent of Albertans speak French.
> 
> But I guess "rubbing our noses" in French is Canadian too, is it?





ArtistSeries said:


> Merde, Sinc, le Canada n'est pas seulement blanc et anglais....


With my "cereal box" french "pas problem" to translate the meaning of AS's post. I got every word but "Merde." I grew up in Halifax where less than 10% of the population speaks french. 

However I now live in the only officially bilingual Province in Canada where one third of the population is french speaking and the area (Moncton) where I live and work is roughly one third french speakingas well.

From what I hear locally Madame Jean has a high approval rating.


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## Silverbullet (Sep 27, 2005)

I do not support Michelle Jean as the GG

ignoring the fact that there really shouldn't be a GG post. 

there are much better qualified individuals out there to hold his position than a member of the liberal CBC. In fact I believe the GG should be an individual with massive life achivments and should be at least 60 years old. 

They should represent ALL of Canada...not Quebec, and should not JUST be picked because of their ethnic minority.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> there are much better qualified individuals out there to hold *his* position


well THAT speaks volumes...Freud pops up in the MOST unusual places


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Silverbullet, I too don't support the office of the GG. However, what if I was named GG? I too am an immigrant to Canada, but would the same claims that "He only represents Newfoundlanders and Labradorians" be said of me? I would represent ALL Canadians, just as I feel she shall in the final analysis. Of course, I would probably be locked away in the Tower of London when I go to the Queen and "request" that she help start the movement here to abolish our Constitutional Monarchy and help us become a free and independent Republic.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

MacDoc said:


> well THAT speaks volumes...Freud pops up in the MOST unusual places


A classic example of making mountains out of mole hills. It was a typo. Deal with it.


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## AppleAuthority (May 21, 2005)

Silverbullet said:


> I do not support Michelle Jean as the GG
> 
> ignoring the fact that there really shouldn't be a GG post.
> 
> ...


I agree. I don't really understand the point of GC without us being completely under the monarchy, and I don't understand how a journalist could just be picked for the job. It really puzzles me. I can tell you, if I was running the Canadian Government, things would be quite different.


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

BigDL said:


> With my "cereal box" french "pas problem" to translate the meaning of AS's post. I got every word but "Merde." I grew up in Halifax where less than 10% of the population speaks french.


Merde translates as a four letter word for the product of a bowel movement.. (Not sure what is acceptable or not in terms of language around here, but I figure that's close enough for you all to figure it out. )


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> A classic example of making mountains out of mole hill


Subbing his for her in discussing an authority figure like the GG is far more likely a Freudian slip than fumbling fingers missing a letter. I made an observation, not an issue of it.

Maybe AS would like to comment on the volumes THIS speaks........


> But I guess "rubbing our noses" in French is Canadian too, is it?


and not by accident in this case.


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

SINC said:


> But I guess "rubbing our noses" in French is Canadian too, is it?



Merde!
lol
Rubbing noses in it.
lol
{sarcasm} Yes typing in French is rubbing people's nose in it.{/sarcasm} 
This attitude pisses me off.
Is typing in English "rubbing people's noses in it?
Is there something wrong with speaking French?
Talk about intolerant.
The implication is (incase you are too thick to get it) is that French is excrement.


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

RevMatt said:


> Merde translates as a four letter word for the product of a bowel movement.. (Not sure what is acceptable or not in terms of language around here, but I figure that's close enough for you all to figure it out. )


  That would explain why I never picked it up with my *"cereal box"* french. I don't eat bran cereals. My concerns go to intake not output!  

For those persons who couldn't give a wit about the position of Governor General why would you even care who holds the position?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

MacDoc said:


> Maybe AS would like to comment on the volumes THIS speaks........
> 
> and not by accident in this case.


You bet it was no accident and I can hardly wait.

Truth be known for one who happens to be able to speak French to single out another unilingual Canadian and ridicule them for not being able to use the language is distinctly not the "Canadian" thing to do in my books. Sounds to me like something a separatist would do. As is applauding the gesture, I might add.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

martman said:


> Merde!
> lol
> Rubbing noses in it.
> lol
> ...


Bienvenue a Alberta.


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> Bienvenue a Alberta.


Exactly!


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I don't speak French Sinc but I understand 100% the irony for a Quebecker..........and WHY AS's comment is so appropo in the context.

I also suspect that he knows that you knew exactly what he said in French......and you got all blustery about it. Subtext tells the tale.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Let me say it again, I have no idea what he said. I do not speak or read French. What is so hard to understand about that?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

martman said:


> Merde!
> lol
> Rubbing noses in it.
> lol
> ...


When one does not read or speak a language, one certainly does not "get it". So just exactly who is the "thick" one here?

I thought maybe it meant "sea" from what I could remember about phrases I have seen before on Canada's crest.

I will refrain from responding to your "attitude" statement, but it does in fact upset me. If Quebecers want my respect, they won't ridicule me via a language I cannot understand.


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## AppleAuthority (May 21, 2005)

We should also keep in mind French is a 'second language'. English is number one. That's why [most] of us are speaking it here.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I might as well say this now, because I am getting a bit frustrated in seeing this covert Sinc-bashing taking place in this thread. Sinc and I disagree on the current GG. Fine. He openly admitted that he did not understand what AS wrote in French. Fine. But now, this is going a bit further than just this situation. Sinc does not speak for the Canadian west, just as I don't speak for the Canadian far-east. Why can't we just tone down the rhetoric a bit and keep this a bit less personal? Just a thought. Paix, mes amis.


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## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

Ouch... Hate to see this thread get out of hand.

Regardless, in english, I will add my personal sentiment: A toast for a _fellow_ Haitian. yep.

H!


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## Mugatu (Mar 31, 2005)

Dr.G. said:


> I might as well say this now, because I am getting a bit frustrated in seeing this covert Sinc-bashing taking place in this thread. Sinc and I disagree on the current GG. Fine. He openly admitted that he did not understand what AS wrote in French. Fine. But now, this is going a bit further than just this situation. Sinc does not speak for the Canadian west, just as I don't speak for the Canadian far-east. Why can't we just tone down the rhetoric a bit and keep this a bit less personal? Just a thought. Paix, mes amis.


Dr. G. I can think of at least five or six other threads you could have used a good cut-n-paste the above quote. Thanks for putting a little perspective to this quickly deteriorating thread.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Mugatu, thanks for seeing the intent of my posting. "Perspective" is your key word. Paix, mon ami.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

SINC said:


> You bet it was no accident and I can hardly wait.
> 
> Truth be known for one who happens to be able to speak French to single out another unilingual Canadian and ridicule them for not being able to use the language is distinctly not the "Canadian" thing to do in my books. Sounds to me like something a separatist would do. As is applauding the gesture, I might add.


SINC, I used French because Canada is an officially bilingual country. You are acting like a bigot and being close to be racist. 

Your response was what I expected from you. It shows a distinct side of your person. You talk of respect but only show disdain for Quebeckers. Are they not part of your Canada?

BTW, the literal translation of "merde" is sh*t but but also mean "Hell!" (as an expression of indignation).


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ArtistSeries said:


> SINC, I used French because Canada is an officially bilingual country. You are acting like a bigot and being close to be racist.
> 
> Your response was what I expected from you. It shows a distinct side of your person. You talk of respect but only show disdain for Quebeckers. Are they not part of your Canada?
> 
> BTW, the literal translation of "merde" is sh*t but but also mean "Hell!" (as an expression of indignation).


For the record, I certainly am not a bigot nor a racist.

Canada is officially bilingual and I recognize that, but if I spoke another language that you did not understand, I would never use it to try and convey a message to you.

The fact that I neither read nor speak French does not make me any less a Canadian. And yes, my Canada includes Quebec. I lobbied those few I knew in Quebec to stay with Canada during the last referendum.

I may not know French, but I do recognize being the target of a deliberate taunt.

Sorry about that Dr. G. That will be my last post here.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

AS, keep in mind that my mother was born in Montreal, so I have some roots in PQ. However, that said, try saying what you said to Sinc in Quebec City, but change the word "French" to "English". (...I used English because Canada is an officially bilingual country.) Try putting up a storefront in English and see what happens. Personally, I am against all form of discrimination, as well as racism. You are an intelligent person. Make your point without resorting to insults. Paix, mon ami.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sinc, no need to apologize to me. How did our posts come in at the same time???


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Dr.G. said:


> AS, keep in mind that my mother was born in Montreal, so I have some roots in PQ. However, that said, try saying what you said to Sinc in Quebec City, but change the word "French" to "English". (...I used English because Canada is an officially bilingual country.) Try putting up a storefront in English and see what happens. Personally, I am against all form of discrimination, as well as racism. You are an intelligent person. Make your point without resorting to insults. Paix, mon ami.


Dr G, I fail to see how I insulted SINC, given that I posted the translation almost immediately for him.

SINC's insinuations and innuendo start with his post 
http://www.ehmac.ca/showpost.php?p=288182&postcount=8

Followed by his comment "rubbing our noses"
http://www.ehmac.ca/showpost.php?p=288273&postcount=20

and maybe, of course, all Quebeckers should be doing all possible to get SINC's respect when I doubt he has any for Quebec
http://www.ehmac.ca/showpost.php?p=288420&postcount=36

You are reading way too much into what I wrote - it was far from a taunt. Think of it as an observation.

And SINC, you try being an Anglophone in Quebec...... That will give anyone a strange perspective of Canada-Quebec (I'm being oppressed from all side !)  

Dr. G, you should come back to Montreal for a visit. As some of you know, Montreal municipal elections will be Nov 6th. The official slogan for Mayor Gerald Tremblay is "Go Montréal" - maybe Quebec is loosening up....


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

MacDoc said:


> Subbing his for her in discussing an authority figure like the GG is far more likely a Freudian slip than fumbling fingers missing a letter. I made an observation, not an issue of it.


Actually, I think the "t" in "this" was missed, rather than his subbed for her.

And yes you made an issue of it, whether you were intending to or not.



ArtistSeries said:


> You are reading way too much into what I wrote - it was far from a taunt. Think of it as an observation.


What you intend to say and what the other guy reads are often quite different things. Sinc may be belligerent sometimes, but insinuating he's a bigot because he's upset about someone speaking a language at him which he doesn't understand is a bit much.


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## oldgrumpy (Aug 22, 2005)

Sorry, MacDoc. Why we need this office at all is beyond me. We're not a "colony" anymore. And she'll have to do more than look pretty and mouth the appropriate words in order to convince me that she doesn't still have separatist leanings.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

AS, I think that it was your comment to Sinc that I objected to ("SINC, I used French because Canada is an officially bilingual country. You are acting like a bigot and being close to be racist.") Still, you have the right to your opinion, and the right to express that opinion. However, I feel that it might have been done in a more tactful manner if you want people to see the rationale underlying your views.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Sinc objected to the GG in a previous thread because she was a journalist and from Quebec. A common theme to a lot of Sinc's views - emphasis on Quebec.... So would "Quebecophobe" be a better word?


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## Chealion (Jan 16, 2001)

MacDoc said:


> Subbing his for her in discussing an authority figure like the GG is far more likely a Freudian slip than fumbling fingers missing a letter. I made an observation, not an issue of it.


You also complain bitterly about people who do the same thing to your posts. You call it sniping then, what is it now?



Dr. G said:


> Why can't we just tone down the rhetoric a bit and keep this a bit less personal? Just a thought.


Jebus. About time someone said that. Thank you Dr. G

AS - FWIW, the translation although posted quite quickly isn't easily apparent that it is the translation unless you have a little bit of French under your belt. I can easily see why Sinc misunderstood it as I missed it at first on that page. Going back and translating it then made sense, but you have to know at least a bit of "cereal box" French for us native (and ignorant in this case) English speakers.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Chealion said:


> You also complain bitterly about people who do the same thing to your posts. You call it sniping then, what is it now?
> 
> 
> Jebus. About time someone said that. Thank you Dr. G
> ...


be careful of what you type chealion
you might have to apologize, again


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> You also complain bitterly about people who do the same thing to your posts. You call it sniping then, what is it now?


a) show me my "bitter complaints" Chealion....I'm quite willing to hand it back "in kind" something you don't seem to like. I'm quite able and willing to engage.

b) pointing out a Freudian slip that is clearly NOT a typo is hardly "sniping". I actually found it hilariously ironic in the circumstances.

There were many more undercurrents and tensions in this thread than were out in the open and it's exactly those "old bitternesses" that the article addresses .....


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

MacDoc said:


> I'm quite willing to hand it back "in kind" something you don't seem to like. I'm quite able and willing to engage.


Who are you "responding in kind" to? If anyone has escalated things in this thread it's been you.



MacDoc said:


> pointing out a Freudian slip that is clearly NOT a typo is hardly "sniping".


Except of the people who've made mention of it, you're the only one who seems to think its not a typo. Granted we won't know until the poster comes back and says "I meant to say _____", but in the mean time you're being a touch antagonistic about it.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

ArtistSeries said:


> Sinc objected to the GG in a previous thread because she was a journalist and from Quebec. A common theme to a lot of Sinc's views - emphasis on Quebec.... So would "Quebecophobe" be a better word?


AS: Do what I do... whenever I read SINC's posts that end up yammering about Quebec, I substitute his favorite word "separatists" for "commie bastards." It's quite fun to read after that. It gives his personality to a whole new American twist.

Try it.


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## Mugatu (Mar 31, 2005)

« MannyP Design » said:


> AS: Do what I do... whenever I read SINC's posts that end up yammering about Quebec, I substitute his favorite word "separatists" for "commie bastards." It's quite fun to read after that. It gives his personality to a whole new American twist.
> 
> Try it.


Do what I do... whenever I read AS's posts that end up yammering about Alberta, I substitute his favorite words "damn Albertans" for "neocon dubya lovin' hicks." It's quite fun to read after that. It gives his/her personality a whole new "commie bastard" twist.'

Try it.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Two solitudes indeed...

The GG would have her work cut out for her just in this forum.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

You're welcome, Chealion. Not sure if the rhetoric shall be toned down any, but we are all adults and really don't need to utilize moderators on this matter.............I hope.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Mugatu said:


> Do what I do... whenever I read AS's posts that end up yammering about Alberta, I substitute his favorite words "damn Albertans" for "neocon dubya lovin' hicks." It's quite fun to read after that. It gives his/her personality a whole new "commie bastard" twist.'
> 
> Try it.


Indeed, I would... _if_ AS was prone to constant bashing of "little Texas" as much as SINC has been to Quebec and it's residents.


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## Mugatu (Mar 31, 2005)

« MannyP Design » said:


> "little Texas"


... *sigh* ... whatever...


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Mugatu said:


> ... *sighs* ... whatever...


Oh, come on... don't be like that, now.


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## Mugatu (Mar 31, 2005)

Calling Alberta 'little Texas' is pretty damn rude. In comparison, why not call Ontario 'Pompous Arrogant Jackasses'?... because it's short sighted... false and ignorant of the people that actually live in that Province.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Grumpy


> Sorry, MacDoc. Why we need this office at all is beyond me. We're not a "colony" anymore. And she'll have to do more than look pretty and mouth the appropriate words in order to convince me that she doesn't still have separatist leanings.


No need to be sorry - we've covered this issue before if you care to hunt about - other governments have twin offices President and Prime Minister in France are an example.

Having a "national representative" for the myriad functions in Canada and around the world I feel is a useful office and it allows for a controlled tie breaking mechanism in Parliament in case of deadlock as we almost saw this year.

In France the role is different but the principle of a second office remains.

In monarchies the ceremonial role is taken by the monarch - I'm QUITE happy to dump the monarch aspect but quite interested in keeping the post as a useful and important part of government.

Large corporations will often have ceremonial or titular roles as well - Chairman Emeritus and universities too.
It provides a non-executive position that in my mind aides and abets the daily grind of governance.

There have been "Ambassadors at Large" who have fulfilled broad brush roles representing their country abroad .

No one person can easily cover off all the roles a "head of state" ends up with.

I happen to think for Canada this is an important office.

Now the Senate............I DO like a second house but "fer sure we ain't got it right" in Canada

Australia's upper house seems to work and a second house with regional/proportional representation appeals to me but then it adds one more layer of complexity that is maybe better filled by increasing provincial powers.
There MUST be something better than the golden parachute club we currently support.

But the GG Office.....call it what you like......the function of the office I think is important and I support it and the choices in recent years.

I thought Ray Hnatyshyn a good choice
http://www.gg.ca/gg/fgg/bios/01/hnatyshyn_e.asp

and despite Andrienne's profligacy I thought she brought some new life to the role.
Jeanne Sauve also brought much to the role.



> Mme. Sauvé's concern for youth and peace were two of the three central themes of her mandate – the third was national unity. She travelled extensively, making her role as Governor General – a symbol of our common identity – accessible to all Canadians. In her installation speech, she spoke about the need for Canadians to forego a narrow sense of their nation and become more tolerant. "This is the price of our happiness," she said, "but happiness will never be found in the spirit of 'every man for himself'."


http://www.gg.ca/gg/fgg/bios/01/sauve_e.asp

Keeping the office outside the political arena I think is the real key to it's benefit.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Mugatu said:


> Calling Alberta 'little Texas' is pretty damn rude. In comparison, why not call Ontario 'Pompous Arrogant Jackasses'?... because it's short sighted... false and ignorant of the people that actually live in that Province.


 I think "World Class Wannabees" or "Centre-left of the Universe" is more accurate than "Pompous Arrogant Jackasses", although I do see your point.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Mugatu said:


> Calling Alberta 'little Texas' is pretty damn rude. In comparison, why not call Ontario 'Pompous Arrogant Jackasses'?... because it's short sighted... false and ignorant of the people that actually live in that Province.


*Exactly* my point -- calling anything remotely French as "separatist" is equally short sighted and ignorant. SINC has been using it for whatever means he deems fit. He waves his finger at the residents of Quebec as he looks down his nose from his comfy home in Alberta.

It's not fun being on the other end is it? Too bad SINC can't muster the neutrons in his thick skull to realize it. Seems to me a lot of Western folk here are quick to give Quebec a kick in the pants when they deem fit to do so.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Mugatu said:


> Do what I do... whenever I read AS's posts that end up yammering about Alberta, I substitute his favorite words "damn Albertans" for "neocon dubya lovin' hicks." It's quite fun to read after that. It gives his/her personality a whole new "commie bastard" twist.'
> 
> Try it.


Hey, I've never done that before, but man it is amusing....


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Mugatu said:


> ... *sigh* ... whatever...



Texas North is the appropriate term as Iraq is now Texas East.


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## Mugatu (Mar 31, 2005)

« MannyP Design » said:


> *Exactly* my point -- calling anything remotely French as "separatist" is equally short sighted and ignorant.


Agreed.



« MannyP Design » said:


> SINC has been using it for whatever means he deems fit. He waves his finger at the residents of Quebec as he looks down his nose from his comfy home in Alberta.


I am glad to know that SINC has a comfy home.



« MannyP Design » said:


> It's not fun being on the other end is it?


Did I call Quebecers Seperatists? 



« MannyP Design » said:


> Too bad SINC can't muster the neutrons in his thick skull to realize it.


Cute. That same could be said about your views of the West.



« MannyP Design » said:


> Seems to me a lot of Western folk here are quick to give Quebec a kick in the pants when they deem fit to do so.


It seems to me that a lot of Easterners like to berate the West whenever they get the chance. It also seems to me that the West likes to berate the East whenever they get the chance. We can discuss these issues in a better manner than calling someone stupid (eg. your 'thick skull' comment) and then saying it's because they are from a certain geographical location.


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## Mugatu (Mar 31, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> Hey, I've never done that before, but man it is amusing....


I have to berate myself a little here... I can't find a single post by AS that is derogatory towards... well pretty much anyone... except planethoth. 

My appologies AS. I will be sure to double check before I make a statement like that again.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Mugatu said:


> I have to berate myself a little here... I can't find a single post by AS that is derogatory towords... well pretty much anyone... except planethoth.
> 
> My appologies AS. I will be sure to double check before I make a statement like that again.


[shakes Ontario finger in Mugatu's direction]
"Git off my lawn, you damn keeds!!"


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> It seems to me that a lot of Easterners like to berate the West whenever they get the chance. It also seems to me that the West likes to berate the East whenever they get the chance. We can discuss these issues in a better manner than calling someone stupid (eg. your 'thick skull' comment) and then saying it's because they are from a certain geographical location


And that is exactly what THIS GG and others before have tried to damp down - stressing common ground and future as a united nation instead of ancient rivalries and bitternesses of a divided one.

Seems the office HAS a worthy mandate.......and MUCH work yet to be done going by the rhetoric here.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Mugatu said:


> Did I call Quebecers Seperatists?


Actually, no. You could say you got caught in the crossfire.



> Cute. That same could be said about your views of the West.


What exactly are my views of the West? I thought I've been talking about SINC's views of Quebec, if I'm not mistaken.



> It seems to me that a lot of Easterners like to berate the West whenever they get the chance. It also seems to me that the West likes to berate the East whenever they get the chance. We can discuss these issues in a better manner than calling someone stupid (eg. your 'thick skull' comment) and then saying it's because they are from a certain geographical location.


If we deal with generalizations, I'd say there are a lot of people on both sides who like to sh!t on each other. However, I didn't say SINC was thick in the head _because_ he was from Alberta.

But I really dig the piano necktie, though.


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## bryanc (Jan 16, 2004)

Mugatu said:


> Calling Alberta 'little Texas' is pretty damn rude.


Speaking as an Albertan, I think 'little Texas' is a fairly accurate description of Alberta. Like Texas, there are plenty of people here who are reasonable, well-educated, and liberal-minded, but we're sadly outnumbered by ignorant red-necks like our Premier and the corporate greed-heads who's interests he protects.

Being an Albertan is sort of like being an American, you can vote against the idiocy, but so many of your fellow citizens *like* the idiots that you wind up constantly having to apologize to the rest of the country/world for the actions of your so-called representatives.

Cheers


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

bryanc said:


> Speaking as an Albertan, I think 'little Texas' is a fairly accurate description of Alberta. Like Texas, there are plenty of people here who are reasonable, well-educated, and liberal-minded, but we're sadly outnumbered by ignorant red-necks like our Premier and the corporate greed-heads who's interests he protects.
> 
> Being an Albertan is sort of like being an American, you can vote against the idiocy, but so many of your fellow citizens *like* the idiots that you wind up constantly having to apologize to the rest of the country/world for the actions of your so-called representatives.
> 
> Cheers


just don't let Sinc find out where you live


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Mugatu said:


> I have to berate myself a little here... I can't find a single post by AS that is derogatory towards... well pretty much anyone... except planethoth.
> 
> My appologies AS. I will be sure to double check before I make a statement like that again.


Mugatu, no worries here. I understand the perception that I project at times.


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## Chealion (Jan 16, 2001)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> be careful of what you type chealion
> you might have to apologize, again


It seems I've hit another hornet's nest.



MacDoc said:


> a)...I'm quite willing to hand it back "in kind" something you don't seem to like. I'm quite able and willing to engage.


I don't like you handing back in kind. It's who you are, I can't change you.



> b) pointing out a Freudian slip that is clearly NOT a typo is hardly "sniping". I actually found it hilariously ironic in the circumstances.


If it was more apparent that it was meant as being pointed out as irony rather then a snipe at the entire credibility of the poster I might have got the joke. I didn't. What's done is done.

MannyP - I think you're being far too hard on SINC in terms of Quebec. I haven't seen SINC go out of his way to bash Quebec, however his questioning of the continuous appointing or disproportionate amount of investment from relatively liberal Quebecers is understandable. Just how much is appeasement to keep Canada a nation with two languages and cultures, and how much is because there are some pretty freaking awesome people from Quebec?[1]

As an Albertan I can identify with the feeling that anything going to Ottawa is synonymous with giving money to Quebec. Doesn't make it right, but it's one of those annoying consequences of the perceived Western Alienation. Can the Federal government ever be able to treat each province 100% equally?

Maybe I'm too much of an Albertan[1], but the first question that pops in my head to do with news of someone from Quebec being appointed somewhere is "Why did they get the job?" Is it because they were the best, or is it an appointment. After all, why else would a Doctor stop his practise and take over the Education system in Alberta?

On a more humorous note:


MACSPECTRUM said:


> Texas North is the appropriate term as Iraq is now Texas East.


 Are you sure? Iraq and Alberta don't get hurricanes. 

1 - Hey RtC. You're one.
2 - Does this mean I can paint my neck red, and wander around town with a bottle of moonshine? After all where would humour be without stereotypes?


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

*Where's Your East?*



Mugatu said:


> It seems to me that a lot of Easterners like to berate the West whenever they get the chance. It also seems to me that the West likes to berate the East whenever they get the chance.


Was this aimed at the Far East of the Western World or the Further East or just the *West East*?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Mugatu, with over 25,000 Newfoundlanders and Labradorians working/living in Alberta, you won't find too many people here saying negative things about Alberta. That 25,000 represents about 5% of the current total population of NL.

We here in NL are Canada's "far east".


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## Fink-Nottle (Feb 25, 2001)

For once, I think I have to agree with MacDoc here. If the Governor General's job is to embody us as a nation then, her accomplishments aside, there is merit in having someone from a demographic which is well represented in the country but less so in the corridors of power: young, female, black and an immigrant. Beyond that role, there is very little agreement on what the GG should do anyway, so I am surprised how anyone can be so certain that she is unsuitable. She seems to be an astute woman with some convictions who I'm sure will be advised by our best constitutional experts. So she's had separatist leanings in the past... wouldn't that makes her a great spokeswoman for federalism in Quebec? If worst comes to worst, Britain has survived some terrible monarchs who were born into the role so I'm sure we can survive a blundered appointment or two. But I think she'll do just fine.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

:clap:
Yes I see it as a counter balance to the eminences grise that too often dominate the top roles.

a "Bit 'o flash for the nation mate"......Diana with all her controversy acquired a similar role in shaking the stodgy royals.

That it's a largely symbolic office but with a bit of "tie breaking" power and role playing for Parliament as an institution in itself ( as opposed to the political aspect ) once more I think offers benefit to Canada in seeing the nation and it's institutions in a large view than just who holds what seats when and lends gravitas to the role that might otherwise be missing.


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## Heart (Jan 16, 2001)

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## Makr (Jul 21, 2005)

Heh, Mmm.. i love forum rules..

I like the GG post, it's a Government post but strictly speaking, non-government, in theory she has no real power. 

I like the positive role model in society, someone from a unbalanced youth, could make it to such a important position. 

I have a couple of reasons for the position, and they all require the post to be Royal related:

-Few people know this but Jean is now the Chief Scout of Canada, and with that title, she will with help of the Lieutenant Governors, sign (by sign I mean my certificate on my wall is hand signed by Adrienne Clarkson) and present the Queen's Venturer Award which is the highest Youth Award based in Canada. The moment of recieving the Award is something that I will remember for years because i was invited by my Lieutenant Governor's house for the climax of my Youth scouting life. Having it presented by my preimer or the like just isn't special enough, for chirst's sake, i got my trophy for winning the local Soap box derby presented to me by the Preimer at the time.

- She represents the Canada we would like people to see. We want people to see a smiling face of mixed descent, when people visit, not the political in-fighting that make me sick of politicians. She's above Ambassidors because she is the Governor General of Canada, one step down from Royalty, which may not mean something here, but it sure means a lot to many European countries. She is the face of Canada, and no one is going to look at the fine print.

- The post was awarded for her excellent work for many Years, something that in theory all Canadians could get. Big deal if she was pro-sepratists or not, Quebec voted no in the last referendum, and that isn't going to change anytime soon.

Anyway, I'm done Ranting. Everyone play nice.

-


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

[resisting..... urge.... to comment..... on...... authority......... figure edict]
Uh oh. I think I pulled a muscle.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Heart, I signed those Forum "rules", but I did not think I had to actually abide by these rules!!!!!! If I want to bash Sinc, I shall do so, rules or no rules. "Am I my brother's keeper?" Granted, Sinc is my older brother, and we did swear a blood oath as children to protect each other, but I should be allowed to say whatever I want about him because of his views, regardless of your rules. Where is Macspectrum, AS and MacDoc when we need them?????????????????


Seriously, I shall continue to try and be "a positive force in the community." Merci. Paix, mon ami.


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## Mugatu (Mar 31, 2005)

Guess I got caught up in a little too much emotion. Turning the 'rhetoric' down now.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Good for you, Mugatu. I thought that this thread was going from a discussion about the GG to one of Sinc-bashing. Paix, mon ami.


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## Mugatu (Mar 31, 2005)

The GG will eventually be outmoded and replaced. For now, all Canadians are stuck with it and the senate.  Let's give Jean a chance to screw up before we pass sentance.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Mugatu, I don't support the office of the GG, but feel that Ms. Jean was a fine choice for this office if we are forced to choose someone. As for the Senate, either a "triple E" or an abolished Senate would suit me fine. 

I was objecting to the Sinc-bashing. We disagree on Ms. Jean, and other items as well (e.g., the CBC), but we disagree in a civil manner.


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

I say bring on a truly representative Senate. I'm sick of there being no outlet for a voice I'd find reasonable. Every Canadain community has people like me in it but no one represents us. Every four years or so we hold our noses and vote for the least objectionable candidate who never represents people like me. If 13% of the people voted Green there should be a voice for thoses people. As it stands now it is a tyrany of the majority. This majority is enforced by election finance laws that are better than they used to be but still are rigged to benefit the main parties.
I believe the state should fund all election campaigns equally and private/corporate donations and such sould be banned.
That would be a fair election.


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## Mugatu (Mar 31, 2005)

Dr.G. said:


> I was objecting to the Sinc-bashing. We disagree on Ms. Jean, and other items as well (e.g., the CBC), but we disagree in a civil manner.


* bashes SINC on the head * Hehe, it's kind of fun though.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Martman, I could go along with your comment that "I believe the state should fund all election campaigns equally and private/corporate donations and such sould be banned.
That would be a fair election." Use the CBC TV and Radio 1 and 2 to provide ads for people who wish to run for election. The Federal government could also buy ad space for each candidate in a special edition pull-out newspaper section for candidates to give their views on the issues. This way, it would be accessible and evenly distributed.

However, what would become of all the corporate lobbiests that will be put out of work???????????


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## Mugatu (Mar 31, 2005)

We would end up with a million small parties all running to the trough. How many parties could the federal government support with adequate funds? How much of your tax payer dollars would you want going to these parties?


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

Dr.G. said:


> Martman, I could go along with your comment that "I believe the state should fund all election campaigns equally and private/corporate donations and such sould be banned.
> That would be a fair election." Use the CBC TV and Radio 1 and 2 to provide ads for people who wish to run for election. The Federal government could also buy ad space for each candidate in a special edition pull-out newspaper section for candidates to give their views on the issues. This way, it would be accessible and evenly distributed.
> 
> However, what would become of all the corporate lobbiests that will be put out of work???????????


Prohibition didn't exactly get people to stop drinking, did it?

All that would happen is this: subsidizing and funding certain candidates would be driven underground. Covert smear campaigns and the like would thrive. Should these kinds of measures ever be implemented, people complaining of a lack of transparency now will be confronted with an utterly opaque mechanism. Good luck with cleaning up politics that way!

The lobbyists would have absolutely zero problems finding work in their field.


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

I dissagree. A few election fraud cases and most illegal funding would dry up. There will always be cheats but that is no different then now.
I point to recent chages in election funding laws federaly and provincially to back up the idea that the fraud problem would not be as great as you sugest.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

The thing I neglected to add is that there would be about as much dirt in your scenario as there currently is... perhaps more. I just don't see all of the various powerful interests acting all meek and obedient for the sake of good and civil governance. Even now we have rules and we have means of skirting said rules. All sorts of people will play fast and loose with them when they feel doing so suits them.

Agreed with Mugatu, as well, that we'd see an intense proliferation of brand new parties... partylets, if you will. Wouldn't that be fun for the taxpaying sucker in us all.


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

Anything has to be better than the thief party vs the bigot party system we have now.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

martman said:


> Anything has to be better than the thief party vs the bigot party system we have now.


 Not anything, look south.
Directionless unprincipled thieves and thieving lying uber bigots.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

martman said:


> Anything has to be better than the thief party vs the bigot party system we have now.


I am not so sure myself. I look down south and I see nothing inherently better in terms of how the elected govern the electorate. They have different excesses, different problems (and certainly, different successes and strengths), but it doesn't seem to round out to be an obviously superior system. Theirs is in fact starker - Repubs vs. Dems, period. Although we seem to be going that way ourselves, ever more - meaning left vs. right polarities from h3ll and precious little consideration given for solutions trying to bridge the gap.

Better, perhaps, to look at another Western nation - namely Italy - so many parties, so much fractured coalitions... scores since the end of the Second World War. Is that system in the end any fairer to the populace as a whole? I rather doubt it. 

Bottom line: be careful of what you wish for! A Canada awash in parties could well entail a hopelessly stifled, congealed mess.


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## dpwozney (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: "Michaëlle Jean as Governor-General"*



> There is a reason for the extraordinary attention paid yesterday to the investiture of Michaëlle Jean as Governor-General, ...


The Governor General of Canada is a "corporation sole", according to this web page document. A "corporation sole" is defined and recognized as being a corporation.

It is a fiction that a corporation is a person. 

"A corporation is a fiction, by definition, ...", according to Patrick Healy in a statement that can be read here.

"A corporation is a 'fiction' as it has no separate existence, no physical body and no 'mind'", according to this presentation by Joanne Klineberg.​


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

I read your post as a word-poem.

It didn't seem to be efficient to read it any other way.

Nice threadbump. The software equivalent would be reviving a System 8 discussion.





dpwozney said:



> The Governor General of Canada is a "corporation sole", according to this web page document. A "corporation sole" is defined and recognized as being a corporation.
> 
> It is a fiction that a corporation is a person.
> 
> ...


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Any way you cut it, she is an unnecessary cost to taxpayers and a useless figure head to remind us we were once dominated by the British. Seems to me we have matured enough as a country to toss out any allegiance to Liz and her band of Misfit Royals.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sinc, I agree. All the more reason to welcome back His Lordship, Conrad Black, and make him our new monarch. He won't need a salary, and he could be given back his Canadian citizenship and represent us in England for free. Of course, not sure how a King of Canada would go over with the commoners, but they will be better off than the serfs.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Fine.

Anyone who misses how Her Excellency adds respect and dignity to official functions across this country is missing something special and decent, probably deservedly so.

Dr.G. we aren't a republic like the one you left, and this is what makes us different. And SINC, welcome to your opinion of course, but the west hasn't separated yet. I imagine there are quite a few traditionalists out where you live (despite most having come from Ontario, which they quickly forget) and you might respect their respect for this particular tradition.

Is it a waste? Not that much. Would we miss it? Absolutely. There is still a space for rewarding those among us who are brave and contribute above and beyond to society. Her Excellency's main role is to recognize and reward them. Why not encourage that kind of selflessness?

Or do you think all she does is go to meetings and have parties? Hardly.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

HowEver said:


> There is still a space for rewarding those among us who are brave and contribute above and beyond to society. Her Excellency's main role is to recognize and reward them. Why not encourage that kind of selflessness?


Or stupidity. Take your pick.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

The last few times I reviewed recent honorees, that is, Members of the Order of Canada, Companions of the Order, and so on, there weren't any slugs. Didn't the newspaper you pushed publish the list from time to time?




SINC said:


> Or stupidity. Take your pick.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

HowEver said:


> Fine.
> 
> Anyone who misses how *Her Excellency adds respect and dignity to official functions across this country is missing something special and decent, probably deservedly so.*
> 
> ...


Agreed.
I find that the GG is a fine addition to our heritage.

Sinc speaks of dignity, honouring traditions and soldiers - guess there is something about a colored female GG that irks him (and from Quebec to boot too...)


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ArtistSeries said:


> Sinc speaks of dignity, honouring traditions and soldiers - guess there is something about a colored female GG that irks him (and from Quebec to boot too...)


She could be purple and from Alberta and it would not change my opinion. The point being the position is a holdover and reminder of a time when we were a "possession" of Great Britain, not the free and democratic country we are today. It is an expense, and a reminder we do not need.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

When I last looked, we were still part of the Commonwealth.... so I find it appropriate that we have vestiges of the past....


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Yeah, you're right. We should keep a few slaves around too. After all they are vestiges of our past.


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## dpwozney (Oct 31, 2006)

HowEver said:


> Anyone who misses how Her Excellency adds respect and dignity to official functions across this country is missing something special and decent, probably deservedly so.
> ...
> Her Excellency's main role is to recognize and reward them.


Do you deny that the Governor General of Canada is a corporation sole?

Do you disagree with statements claiming that a corporation is a fiction?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

ArtistSeries said:


> ...a _colored _female


?????


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

That's not it. It's that no one cares about the corporation aspect.

She's a person, her office is real, and it has positive effects for Canada.

A corporation is a fiction? Yeah, um, okay. Time to go outside for some fresh air, if that's possible.



dpwozney said:


> Do you deny that the Governor General of Canada is a corporation sole?
> 
> Do you disagree with statements claiming that a corporation is a fiction?


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## dpwozney (Oct 31, 2006)

HowEver said:


> That's not it. It's that no one cares about the corporation aspect.



Maria cares about the corporation aspect.




HowEver said:


> A corporation is a fiction? Yeah, um, okay.



I am glad you agree.


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