# Apple's Keynote '09 vs. Microsoft's PowerPoint 2008



## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

"Edward Tufte had it right. The information scientist, renowned for his book The Cognitive Style of PowerPoint, criticized the way that people use presentation software in presentations. Presenters often use it as a crutch, he said, peeling through slide after slide of bulletpoint text to remind them of what to say, putting no imagination into what they're doing, and boring their audiences to tears in the process.

But it doesn't have to be that way. The latest generation of presentation software features a host of features designed to give your presentations some extra pizzazz."

*Read full article on Keynote vs PowerPoint.* 

Discuss below!


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## crawford (Oct 8, 2005)

The article doesn't really live up to its premise. It's true that no piece of presentation software will do much to make a boring speaker any better, just as Pages or Word won't do much to make someone a better writer. 

But the rest of the article and the videos go on to describe the various features to give presentations additional "pizzazz," some of which the are the basis of the original quote's criticism. 

And finally, it's not really a "vs." kind of comparison. In fact, there's very little comparison between the applications, simply a description of features for each.

Will likely spur another spirited debate along the lines of the two favourite word processor threads.


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## Caillou (Jun 9, 2003)

The best of the best on presentation skills : 
YouTube - How NOT to use PowerPoint!
:lmao:


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Keynote BLOWS powerpoint COMPLETELY out of the water. It's like comparing typography to cave paintings. Not even close.

Further, Keynote does as much as computers today CAN do to give your presentations the right soft of "pizzazz." Things like properly centred and balanced text, beautiful design and typography, logical transitions, easy animations and default large, easy-to-see fonts and picture placeholders REALLY help even the worst presentations work better.


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

OK chas_m

Give me three things Keynote does better (I can only think of one but I'll keep mum for the moment..)

I think PP08 was a major improvement and unless you need fancy transitions (which are not that useful on an everyday basis), PP is absolutely fine and will obviously be usable on any computer/projector your client will be using.


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

I wonder if the author of that article had even bothered reading Tufte's essay? Since he calls it a "book", I'm going to assume he did not. I am a big fan of Tufte's work. I haven't read the essay in years but I recall Tufte stressing the value of the content and not the "pizazz". In fact, he clearly states in many examples that information is better presented in plain, unadorned format.

Having Keynote at your disposal with its extra "pizazz" just gives the bad presenter more tools with which to do harm. It would be like giving a shotgun instead of a BB gun to a person with bad aim and hoping he hits the target.

If I have to tolerate a PP or Keynote presentation, the last thing I want to see is lots of animations and great transitions. "Get to the friggin' point" is all I can think. I lose focus. 

The best presenter I have ever seen worked with me at Alias. He used a tablet PC and Sketchbook. On his Sketchbook slides, he used text sparingly and then elaborated his points with hand sketches. They were beautiful and to the point and I was green with envy at this guy's talent.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

I have suffered through 100s of 35 mm slide presentations in my lifetime including at least a dozen that were prepared by well known pros. Exactly 3 stand out in my memory and I would revisit those 3 anytime I was lucky enough to score an invite. 

My reaction to PowerPoint style presentations is about the same. It is possible to blow me away but if you can't then please spare me. In most cases the presentation subs for notes on the back of napkins. Very seldom is it used to grab your attention and keep it from beginning to end.

So you will forgive me for avoiding all such presentations whenever possible.


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

I write presentations in a business context regularly as part of my living. My observation is that 99% of people confuse a presentation and an illustrated report both at the writing and receiving ends. In an ideal world you would give people a takeaway report at the end of a presentation and would use a highly graphic/symbolic set of slides for the presentation itself.

What I do now is the following:

- Only key messages/illustration on the slides, narrative on speaker notes
- Save a copy without speaker notes for distribution in hard copy at the start of the presentation so people can add their own notes
- If there is a need for numbers/detailed charts, put them in appendix as supplementary slides.

Not ideal, but a good balance that manages audience expectations.


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

What I do now is keep my laptop closed and just talk.


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

Wise man. By far the best solution when you don't have an anally retentive audience expecting slides...


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

I have only ever seen one PowerPoint presentation that didn't crash and burn (and it was on a Mac...) From BSODs, to the inability to root back through the presentation for a picture, the inability to properly render standard graphics formats, to the interminable No Video Source Found error - PP has it all.

Keynote is completely different, I have never neen a crashed out Keynote presentation, no problems conneting to a projector or monitor, and can handle all standard graphic formats with no problems. I'd say that the technical problems that PP has simply kill it for any usefulness...


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## broken_g3 (Jun 27, 2008)

It never ceases to amaze me how many people here manage to crash their Microsoft programs- even PowerPoint 98 never gave me a single problem. Personally, I hate both Keynote and PowerPoint. I have seen them both in action and every single goddamn time they are always feeble little pillars holding up a fundamentally flawed and shaky presentation. The weekly PowerPoint/Keynote presentations at my company just make me want to shoot myself in the head. 

But, if I absolutely had to pick one that I hate more, I would vote Keynote- simply because everyone I've ever met using it somehow thinks that their presentation doesn't suck when they use Keynote as appose to any other presentation software. Wake up and smell the coffee: your presentation still sucks, you still have not managed to grab my attention, you do a very poor job at communicating an idea, and you should be fired if you think that the impressive animations are going to save your lackluster presentation from just being another event that everyone wants to get the hell out of.


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

I must be living in a different universe. I have been sitting and sleeping through Powerpoint presentations for 20 years and I can't remember ever seeing one crash.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

hhk said:


> I must be living in a different universe. I have been sitting and sleeping through Powerpoint presentations for 20 years and I can't remember ever seeing one crash.


20 Years? In any case the key word there was sleeping through them. This would of course include the freezes.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I have to see a large number of presentations as well. I would say that I see about 20% of the presentations in PowerPoint malfunction in some way. And yes, they are dreadfully boring--in most cases simply reiterating in words exactly what the speaker is saying.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

broken_g3 said:


> It never ceases to amaze me how many people here manage to crash their Microsoft programs- even PowerPoint 98 never gave me a single problem. Personally, I hate both Keynote and PowerPoint. I have seen them both in action and every single goddamn time they are always feeble little pillars holding up a fundamentally flawed and shaky presentation. The weekly PowerPoint/Keynote presentations at my company just make me want to shoot myself in the head.
> 
> But, if I absolutely had to pick one that I hate more, I would vote Keynote- simply because everyone I've ever met using it somehow thinks that their presentation doesn't suck when they use Keynote as appose to any other presentation software. Wake up and smell the coffee: your presentation still sucks, you still have not managed to grab my attention, you do a very poor job at communicating an idea, and you should be fired if you think that the impressive animations are going to save your lackluster presentation from just being another event that everyone wants to get the hell out of.


Did we miss snacktime? :-(


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

I should think nothing short of a pair of tits and free beer would keep broken_sourpuss' attention.


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## oakie (May 8, 2009)

chas_m said:


> Keynote BLOWS powerpoint COMPLETELY out of the water. It's like comparing typography to cave paintings. Not even close.
> 
> Further, Keynote does as much as computers today CAN do to give your presentations the right soft of "pizzazz." Things like properly centred and balanced text, beautiful design and typography, logical transitions, easy animations and default large, easy-to-see fonts and picture placeholders REALLY help even the worst presentations work better.


if you need ANY of that then your "presentation" is not ready to be presented. sorry, but it's the truth.



EvanPitts said:


> I have only ever seen one PowerPoint presentation that didn't crash and burn (and it was on a Mac...) From BSODs, to the inability to root back through the presentation for a picture, the inability to properly render standard graphics formats, to the interminable No Video Source Found error - PP has it all.
> 
> Keynote is completely different, I have never neen a crashed out Keynote presentation, no problems conneting to a projector or monitor, and can handle all standard graphic formats with no problems. I'd say that the technical problems that PP has simply kill it for any usefulness...


sounds like user error. microsoft products arent nearly as bad as you're making them out to be (except millennium edition; that one was truly horrid). my intro post in the "everything else, eh" forum (which hasnt been moderated into approval yet) mentioned being turned on to this forum due to its lack of "militant fanboyism" so i hope this is the exception and not the rule. tptptptp

after 12 years in the USAF, 8 enlisted, 4 as a DoD contractor, i have participated in both delivery and reception of numerous powerpoint presentations, ranging from bad to painful. if there's one thing about US military leaders, it's that they love to hear themselves simulate leadership. but what i learned about powerpoint is to resist using it as a crutch, as many others have previously stated. how does one do that? limit yourself to 5 slides and no metrics.

if i need to import something from excel, then it needs to be printed and handed out. include a ruled sheet so they can even take notes. if they're taking notes, it's NOT because you missed something from your slides... it means they're paying attention. and ONE DAMN CLICK PER SLIDE. sorry to yell, but i hate "never-ending slides" as the presentation mouse is not a gun and the button is not a trigger for firing bullet-points into the screen. most of all, skip the animations and sound effects. even if they dont suck, your audience stops focusing on the material and anxiously awaits your next animation/sound effect/transition after the first one.

anyways, sorry for the stumping. i had grown to hate slide presentations until i was volunteered to teach public speaking at air college for a year. the few good ones pretty much followed the tips taught to me that i listed above, and most of all, featured presenters who were enthusiastic and prepared to educate and inform their audience.


but to address the question posed, i prefer the elegance and efficiency of keynote. it has a lot of simple wyswyg doodads that make it easy to incorporate an almost limitless amount of media and transition effects to provide the most eyecatching distraction possible.


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## broken_g3 (Jun 27, 2008)

fjnmusic said:


> Did we miss snacktime? :-(


I don't get snack time. That is for Kindergartners; I get a coffee break whenever I feel like it, and as long as I don't take like 3 or 4 a day, nobody gets ticked off. I just HATE boring presentations. That's where the rant comes from, not the lack of Tim Hortons. 




chas_m said:


> I should think nothing short of a pair of tits and free beer would keep broken_sourpuss' attention.


That would certainly keep my attention, although a good and well-thought out PowerPoint would also do the trick.


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## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

I prefer setting up presentations in keynote, I find the layout alot better and find I can do it alot faster. Though when it comes to running a show I prefer powerpoint, on Windows that is. I would only switch over to using keynote soley if I could edit while a show was running like I can do with powerpoint on windows using 2 monitors.


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

I simply base it on what I see. I go to presentations at least once a month, and the various presenters use a number of different combinations. I have never seen a Keynote presentation give up the bun - never. Their Macs seem to connect no problems with the projectors or monitors they are using. A few presenters don't even bother with Keynote - I use Preview, which is as simple as it gets. My presentations tend to be photograph oriented, so I have no need for effects or transitions or fanciness, while a few others will use iPhoto, which is much the same thing. But no presentation I have been at where they have use Apple machines have ever crashed out - even the one who was running PowerPoint on an Apple.

As for the PC based presenters - I can only recall one presenter over the course of the years where his PowerPoint didn't just cave. Most of the presenters have some very real problems, from various BSODs or the system just locking up, or more commonly, the dreaded No Video problem that afflicts the presentations pretty much all the time, even multiple times per presentation. The one presenter that managed couldn't scoot back through the slides when someone asked a question later, without having to go through the whole presentation again.

Even at school, where they are set up with proper Windoze equipment, installed and maintained by Windoze style people - presentations crashed with alarming regularity. The only one that seemed to have any control was our AutoCAD instructor - who wasn't using PowerPoint at all, but was using AutoCAD. The system would only crash if he went to answer some questions, leaving the screen to lapse into sleep, and thus, needing a system restart because the projector had crashed out.

It just seems to be that Apple stuff just works - while Evil Empire stuff suffers from all kinds of maladies that no one can seem to get a handle on. I'll stick to Apple - it works, it's easy, it never lets me down.


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

Windoze? Evil Empire? Biased much?


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Well of course he's biased. This is a *Mac* forum after all ...

But I've used both PP 09 and Keynote and I give presentations all the time. Despite what some people in this thread have (incorrectly) said, polish and attention to detail DO matter in making a presentation better. Nothing can overcome a bad speaker who is basically reading you the slide (as though you can't read!), but just as polish and attention to detail distinguish Apples from PCs and Mac OS X from Windows, so too does good typography, perfect centering, clean animations and a few basic common-sense rules of good design (and presentation) make for a much better presentation than one that does not have these things.

As for the presenter, it should be someone with a pleasant speaking voice, who knows the material so well that he or she does not have to rely on the notes nor read the slide aloud but instead expands upon the basic information on the slide, has a good sense of humour and is comfortable in front of a crowd. An entertaining presenter can make almost any slideshow better, and is a key component of a good presentation.

But I would have thought everyone here knew that. Apparently not.


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

> Well of course he's biased. This is a *Mac* forum after all ...


I suppose that is true but I just roll my eyes when I see those cliched Windows put-downs. It destroys any credibility.

But to get back to the discussion at hand, I just do not see that big a difference between PP and KN. You can make crappy presentations with either one.


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## broken_g3 (Jun 27, 2008)

hhk said:


> I suppose that is true but I just roll my eyes when I see those cliched Windows put-downs. It destroys any credibility.
> 
> But to get back to the discussion at hand, I just do not see that big a difference between PP and KN. You can make crappy presentations with either one.


Agreed, on all fronts. 

BTW, to any people thinking of it, spelling "Windows" as "Windoze" and referring to Microsoft as "The Evil Empire" is not funny. It sounds stupid. So show some restraint.


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

broken_g3 said:


> Agreed, on all fronts.
> 
> BTW, to any people thinking of it, spelling "Windows" as "Windoze" and referring to Microsoft as "The Evil Empire" is not funny. It sounds stupid. So show some restraint.


To each their own - considering that you trumpet how great Windoze is, and how you have never seen a BSOD ever, or have never had a Windoze system slow down and not respond, I somehow doubt that you have ever done anything with the said system. At school, this stuff happened continually, on machines that were entirely maintained by professionals. As for using a Thickpad - well, if someone wants the thickest and heaviest notebook possible, with the worst pointer device ever created - then so be it.

None of this has anything to do with the OP. When it comes down to it, having seen a multitude of presentations, I can say that I have never seen a Keynote presentation die. And I am not talking about a speaker that isn't good, or a boring topic, or if the transitions between slides are cool or not - I am talking nuts and bolts - I have never seen a presentation done on an Apple result in a machine hanging, dying or needing a reboot half way through, whether it was done with Keynote, or with iPhoto or even Preview.

This I can not say for PowerPoint, where I have seen many presentations give up the bun half way through, whether because of a BSOD, or a No Video Detected which requires rebooting, or even the inability to scroll back through a presentation to a specific slide when a question is asked. I did see one PP presentation go ok - but it was on an Apple.

I pointed out that it is not only PP, but in my experiences at school, where they have appropriate infrastructure, and professionals installing and maintaining the software, most if not all presentations went bust at one point or another. Only one instructor had no problems, but he brought his own Apple system. Even with straight up video out with AutoCAD, I have seen dramatic failures that lead to lockups, or even machines on the network locking up and requiring reboots.

This is completely anecdotal based on years of watching these things crash and burn. The OP asked which would be better, Keynote or PP, and the answer is obviously Keynote, since it is stable, easy to use, is flexible, has useful features, and doesn't hang, crash or burn. But of course, if it is some corporate need to use PP, then it is obvious that the Mac version is vastly superior and will yield much less problems than that for Windoze.

As for the whole Windoze thing - any system that takes 10 minutes to go from power up to doing something useful (and I am not talking fooling with an icon or opening WordPad, but a real world application, like AutoCAD) - is not a very good system, considering that all Macs are entirely able to go from power on to doing something useful in less than two minutes.

As for "Evil Empire" - it's all about their profane business practices, and the abuses they heap upon their customers. If you can't hack what is self evident - then perhaps the environs of a Windoze based Forum with the other people that love their maggot boxes would be more the beat.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

hhk said:


> But to get back to the discussion at hand, I just do not see that big a difference between PP and KN. You can make crappy presentations with either one.


I guess, but if for no other reason than Apple's templates are better-designed, the fonts are more beautiful and the transitions more graceful, I would argue that the same crappy presentation on both will look LESS crappy on Keynote.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

chas_m said:


> I guess, but if for no other reason than Apple's templates are better-designed, the fonts are more beautiful and the transitions more graceful, I would argue that the same crappy presentation on both will look LESS crappy on Keynote.


Either way I suspect that half the victims will be catching up on missed sleep and the other half playing games on their iPhone, palm Pilot or whatever.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

eMacMan said:


> Either way I suspect that half the victims will be catching up on missed sleep and the other half playing games on their iPhone, palm Pilot or whatever.


This is the nature of all presentations, apart from a very few with dynamic information matched with wildly entertaining speakers.

I certainly *try* for that goal in my presentations, which use the slides mostly to reinforce what I'm saying (instead of the other way around) and are often broken up with live demos rather than just slides.

Oh and some bad jokes.


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## broken_g3 (Jun 27, 2008)

eMacMan said:


> Either way I suspect that half the victims will be catching up on missed sleep and the other half playing games on their iPhone, palm Pilot or whatever.


I once got so bored during a presentation I whipped out my Nintendo DS and played Mario Kart for the remaining 20 minutes. Thankfully, the boss was disappointed with the presenter and not with me. Or the other 5 people who were all playing on their gadgets 



chas_m said:


> This is the nature of all presentations, apart from a very few with dynamic information matched with wildly entertaining speakers.
> 
> I certainly *try* for that goal in my presentations, which use the slides mostly to reinforce what I'm saying (instead of the other way around) and are often broken up with live demos rather than just slides.
> 
> Oh and some bad jokes.


chas_m, your efforts to make these monstrosities less boring should land you a Nobel Prize.


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

I remember about 15 years ago, while attending a Lotus conference in the U.S., our company rented Motorola email pagers. This was pre-Blackberry. During the ultra boring presentations, we wildly emailed each other about the weather, what golf course we should play, dinner reservations, etc. Right away, I thought - this is the death knell of the presentation. 

Fast forward to today and we have so many distractions. This is why I have basically closed my laptop for good and make sure I engage in discussion. Thankfully, it's still considered rude to talk and play games at the same time.


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## fantastic (May 12, 2009)

chas_m said:


> Keynote BLOWS powerpoint COMPLETELY out of the water. It's like comparing typography to cave paintings. Not even close.


Well said! I couldn't of said it better my self!


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

fantastic said:


> Well said! I couldn't of said it better my self!


As much as I am a Mac Fanboy myself, I still don't get it for Keynote... It's not like comparing WordPerfect under DOS with Pages here, we're talking about very comparable programmes. In my book PowerPoint is better because I can customise templates on the fly. I also like the presenter tools better than on Keynote. I also have better options for printing speaker notes.


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## fantastic (May 12, 2009)

Moscool said:


> As much as I am a Mac Fanboy myself, I still don't get it for Keynote... It's not like comparing WordPerfect under DOS with Pages here, we're talking about very comparable programmes. In my book PowerPoint is better because I can customise templates on the fly. I also like the presenter tools better than on Keynote. I also have better options for printing speaker notes.


I certainly respect your opinion  Everyone has their own preferences, and what they define as better. Obviously there is going to be a contrast as to what I see as better and what others see as better 

I prefer Keynote (iWork in its entirety) because of:

1) Its unbending integration with the rest of the operating system. 

2) Superior graphics tools and animations - This is great for delivering keynotes to my fellow engineering classmates 

3) The flexibility of being able to export my creations to various formats and devices such as PDF, Flash, HTML, iPod, etc.

4) I like a product that is simple and easy to use, but powerful at the same time. I cant stand cluttered interfaces.

Notice the contrast?  In a nutshell, this thread could go on forever because there are a million answers out there all with unique and individual answers that reflect ones personal opinion. My recommendation? Try them both for a while and see what fits your needs the best. That my friends will then answer your question as to what you feel is best.


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

Yes I guess the lingo should've been *better for me* ...


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Moscool:

While I stand behind my opinion of Keynote, one thing you will NOT see from me is "PowerPoint SUCKS."

Powerpoint (particularly the latest incarnation) is a fine product, one of the better ones (for the Mac) that MS makes IMHO. Furthermore, I never forget that without PowerPoint there wouldn't BE a Keynote -- PowerPoint for all its flaws over the years DID pretty much invent the concept of presentation software (to the point that most people have long since forgotten how we did presentations pre-powerpoint!).

I am old enough to remember using DTP to painstakingly create slides that were "modemed" (that was the term!) over to a typesetter, which could create actual slides that were shown in a slide projector. Before that, people would mock up the slides on easals, photograph them and turn those into actual slides. This process would take weeks with no margin for error. You kids today have it soooo easy.


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## broken_g3 (Jun 27, 2008)

chas_m said:


> I am old enough to remember using DTP to painstakingly create slides that were "modemed" (that was the term!) over to a typesetter, which could create actual slides that were shown in a slide projector. Before that, people would mock up the slides on easals, photograph them and turn those into actual slides. This process would take weeks with no margin for error. You kids today have it soooo easy.


I remember when I didn't HAVE to put up with presentations. I remember when people had something so interesting to say all it needed were a few graphs and possibly a supporting photo. Now, and Joe Schmo can slap together a presentation, and the interesting presenters have been overwhelmed by a sea of drones.


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

chas_m said:


> Powerpoint (particularly the latest incarnation) is a fine product, one of the better ones (for the Mac) that MS makes IMHO. Furthermore, I never forget that without PowerPoint there wouldn't BE a Keynote -- PowerPoint for all its flaws over the years DID pretty much invent the concept of presentation software (to the point that most people have long since forgotten how we did presentations pre-powerpoint!)


Actually the real ancestor was ThinkTank, an outliner software that was then refined into MORE. Read the history here.

I remember when PowerPoint came out it was a poor rip-off of MORE and, in my memory at least, it was the first example of MS crowding out and killing a superior product (the Visicalc/123/Excel saga is more complicated).

Symantec didn't support MORE very well and got distracted by the minor fact that MS was trying hard to kill them, they then stumbled upon the antivirus market and the business went exponential: no time left for poxy utilities running on the shrinking Mac platform...


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## PrinceMS (Jul 17, 2008)

The first link how NOT to use ppt is hiliarious ... I am going to use this in an upcoming presentation of mine


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

chas_m said:


> Moscool:
> 
> While I stand behind my opinion of Keynote, one thing you will NOT see from me is "PowerPoint SUCKS."
> 
> ...


Hold on there cowboy. How quickly one forgets the venerable old Lotus software company. Freelance was around long before Powerpoint. I remember using a DOS version of Freelance in the early mid-80s. Heck, I might even have a copy somewhere right alongside my copy of other groundbreaking Lotus software like 1-2-3 and Agenda.


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## fantastic (May 12, 2009)

hhk said:


> Heck, I might even have a copy somewhere right alongside my copy of other groundbreaking Lotus software like 1-2-3 and Agenda.


Question.... Isn't Lotus a part of IBM? Excuse me in advance if I sound like an idiot box. lol


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## broken_g3 (Jun 27, 2008)

fantastic said:


> Question.... Isn't Lotus a part of IBM? Excuse me in advance if I sound like an idiot box. lol


Lotus is a fine suite made by IBM and there is no shame in asking


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## fantastic (May 12, 2009)

broken_g3 said:


> Lotus is a fine suite made by IBM and there is no shame in asking


 Hi broken_g3! Thanks for clearing that up for me  Great! So my memory isn't going down the crapper ahaha


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

fantastic said:


> Question.... Isn't Lotus a part of IBM? Excuse me in advance if I sound like an idiot box. lol


Lotus was an independent company until 1995. They were founded by Mitch Kapor and Jonathan Sachs - the Jobs and Wozniaks of the PC world. They made some fine products - 1-2-3, Agenda, Manuscript and perhaps, the most before-its-time piece of brilliance I've ever worked with - Lotus Notes. The company itself was a distinct pleasure to work with. They were progressive, fun, entrepreneurial. Lotus offered benefits to same-sex partners in the early 90s when a lot of companies were still actively and openly discriminating against gays.

IBM bought the company in '95. Most of the products live on but the spirit of a great software company died that day.

BTW, that OS/2 Warp avatar brings back a lot of memories for me. Some of them good, some of them bad.


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## fantastic (May 12, 2009)

hhk said:


> Lotus was an independent company until 1995. They were founded by Mitch Kapor and Jonathan Sachs - the Jobs and Wozniaks of the PC world. They made some fine products - 1-2-3, Agenda, Manuscript and perhaps, the most before-its-time piece of brilliance I've ever worked with - Lotus Notes. The company itself was a distinct pleasure to work with. They were progressive, fun, entrepreneurial. Lotus offered benefits to same-sex partners in the early 90s when a lot of companies were still actively and openly discriminating against gays.
> 
> IBM bought the company in '95. Most of the products live on but the spirit of a great software company died that day.
> 
> BTW, that OS/2 Warp avatar brings back a lot of memories for me. Some of them good, some of them bad.


hmmm very interesting indeed!  I love nothing better then learning something  Actually I am interested in trying Lotus for the Mac... Yes I am a sucker for trying something new....but aren't we all? 

Released product download: Lotus Symphony 1.2.1

Cheers!


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

fantastic said:


> hmmm very interesting indeed!  I love nothing better then learning something  Actually I am interested in trying Lotus for the Mac... Yes I am a sucker for trying something new....but aren't we all?
> 
> Released product download: Lotus Symphony 1.2.1
> 
> Cheers!


Lotus what? It used to drive me nuts when I was a Lotus reseller and people would ask me for a copy of "Lotus". Lotus 1-2-3? Lotus Notes? Lotus Agenda?

Thanks for the link to the Symphony download. I didn't even know it was still available. I'm going to play around with it right now.


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## fantastic (May 12, 2009)

hhk said:


> Lotus what? It used to drive me nuts when I was a Lotus reseller and people would ask me for a copy of "Lotus". Lotus 1-2-3? Lotus Notes? Lotus Agenda?
> 
> Thanks for the link to the Symphony download. I didn't even know it was still available. I'm going to play around with it right now.


Lol my apologies  And no problem! I have downloaded the software and there are some features that I actually like. Such as:

1) Tabs!!! Its brilliant how I can work with spreadsheets, presentations, word documents and browse the web at the same time! 

2) Simple no nonsense interface

3) Support for plug ins - I can expand the capabilities of the software.

4) The price is right

The only thing that may be of an inconvenience for some users:

1) Unable to open Office 2007 and 2008 native file formats.


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## fantastic (May 12, 2009)

Well after using Lotus Symphony for a little bit I have come to appreciate some of the features that this software suite boasts, some of them calling my name. The tabs are brilliant! However, I still prefer iWork because it suits my needs


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## broken_g3 (Jun 27, 2008)

hhk said:


> BTW, that OS/2 Warp avatar brings back a lot of memories for me. Some of them good, some of them bad.


What negative experiences did you have with OS/2?


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