# What are Mac Mini Best Quality Speakers (used - under $100)



## PurpleConeFlower (Sep 21, 2009)

I'm using an early version of the Mac Mini (upgraded as much as possible) and have purchased BOSE Companion2 speakers, to replace a Koss SWS320 System with a short. I've started to use the Mac for listening to some very delicate and intricate music and while the new BOSE speakers are OK they have minimal power and I think I can do a lot better so I'm returning them. I've become really mixed up about what to get to replace them. From the research I've done so far it looks as though my best bet for higher quality without extreme price is ORB Audio - however my budget requires that I go for used or refurbished - and it looks like people who buy ORB keep them since there isn't much available second hand (at least I couldn't find any) so it looks like they are "keepers".. So I've been looking at Altec Lansing, Logitech, and a few others (used) on ebay kijiji etc. I almost purchased Logitech 540 5.1 but found out just before I purchased that the Mac Mini can't handle more than 2.1 because there's only one plug available. As soon as I'm ready to buy something I hear something else that convinces me to keep looking. Can anyone advise me about what would be my best bet to do credit to the amazing music that will be gracing the speakers.


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

Quite simply.. I couldn't recommend any "Quality" speakers for under $100.

You would do well if you could find a receiver that has a toslink input and some decent speakers to go with it.. but, I don't think you'll find that for under $100. 

I've had good experiences with Logitech.. but, not in your price range. I owned the Logitech Z-5500's, which were superb.. and did the trick until I started to build my own custom system.


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## PurpleConeFlower (Sep 21, 2009)

*To Vexel*

Thanks for your comment, I will look for Logitech Z-5500's on ebay - kijiji etc... (what I want is Bang Olufsen but I've given up on the auctions as they always end up in the stratosphere).


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

IMO you don''t want Logitechs if you are looking for intricate and subtle. You get the 5.1 Logitechs if you want gaming and big explosions. And you won't find Z-5500s under $250 even used.

I got a pair of Alesis M1Active 320USB's which sound good and allow you to connect via USB rather than to the average-quality analog out of the Mini. Tom Lee Music may still have them on sale for $99 a pair, or PM me for more information.

If you have 3 x - 4 x the budget, look at the AudioEngines.


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## PurpleConeFlower (Sep 21, 2009)

*Thanks to CanadaRam*

Thanks for your help. I will PM you if I cannot find anything at Tom Lee Music.


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

M-Audio AV40's, cost about $200 new, so $100 used is not out of the question. Try to pry a pair from an owner's hands might not be so easy, but there is always eBay.

I've had my pair for about 2 years; they replaced some Klipsch Promedia 2.1 units that cost about as much and were quite good, especially compared to the Bose's and Logitech's of the world, but pale in comparison to the M-Audio's.

They have an AV-20 model for less, but I've never listened to them. MacWorld has a review of the AV-40's online, if you care to check them out.


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## jlcinc (Dec 13, 2002)

A quick google search came up with this Montreal distributer of Alesis. They may be able to point you to a local retailer.

Intellimix Corporation

John


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## IllusionX (Mar 10, 2009)

I don't understand why you are looking to downgrade your speakers. The Bose Companion 2 is really the best bang for the buck when it comes to quality+compact size.

Anyways.. I couldn't find anything, for that price range (i paid 74.99$+tax 3 years ago) that offers such quality.

Anything else i have had, had worse sound quality, thought they offered more power. I also do not understand why you are looking to have more power.. The bose are certainly much better than the Koss you've had.


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## PurpleConeFlower (Sep 21, 2009)

To IllusionX:
Thanks for your analysis of my situation. Before purchasing these speakers I had already done a lot of research and the truth is these were the one's [Bose Companion 2] I'd first considered to purchase (three months ago) before doing any research at all, however, after deciding to look around first before making a choice, the "looking around" led me to Bang Olufsen sound equipment and then when I gave up on ever being able to afford those, I have been looking at Orb but again - nothing affordable for me is available right now. 

Prior to the Koss system I had very good JBLs but my son "wanted" them so desperately that I gave them to him and in return I inherited his old Koss system he was discarding (not my choice). I really want something smaller than the great JBLs but never particularly loved the Koss. I replaced my PC with a Mac fairly recently having been stuck with PC systems before which always caused me so much trouble (virus heaven) that improving on the sound was the least of my concerns. After a stint with Ubuntu (which ended most -not all- of the battle with viruses) now I'm finally settled with my little Mac and can finally start building on something stable. I can now refine the sound. So actually I'm aiming to improve on what I first had to work with - the JBLs - the Koss was just a fill in system while I found my way back to my first love - Apple. My first PC was an Apple Mac 512 which I've always missed. But I was in business and back then using a PC was necessary.

The Bose certainly are a cut above the Koss system however the low power leaves me with a sense that I'm missing some of the dimensions of the music I'm listening to. I also need to upgrade the speakers in my sound system so the learning I've already done in my search and the assistance of those sincere souls who've been willing to give me advice here isn't in vain. 

After listening to the advice I'm getting I've decided that my best solution is to merge my Mac Mini and my sound system to get the best of both worlds... instead of upgrading each separately. I don't need two independant sound systems anyway.


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## PurpleConeFlower (Sep 21, 2009)

To Vexel - Two questions:
#1
Regarding your suggestion of searching for Z-5500s, and connecting to a receiver having a toslink input. I'm trying to find out if my JVC AXR 350 Stereo Integrated Amplifier has a toslink input (I have to rearrange the furniture to look at the back) and I'm not sure how to tell since I have no product information and I wasn't able so far to find that information from JVC online. I've found a pair of Z-5300E available nearby. Is this something that could work with the MacMini through your toslink suggested method? 
Here's what the owner of the Z-5300E said: 
"if you're in the market for the Z-5500 then these are essentially the same thing except for a few minor details that you might want to think about (Besides power output). First the Z-5500 (Digital Version) has coaxial AND optical inputs which allows you to connect these speakers to a Apple MacBook Pro for example which has an optical output. This is important because in order to properly transmit the 5.1 audio you need either need some form of digital signal or separate discrete analogue signals which the Z-5300E has in the form of one left/right front, one left/right rear and one sub channel. Most desktop sound cards accept this type of connection. To answer you question, depending on which year your MacMini was produced, it most likely outputs a digital signal through the means of an optical connection. Therefore your only option for true 5.1 audio is to get the Z-5500. Be careful when searching for a used set however since a lot of people are trying to get rid of the older non digital version of the Z-5500 which will be no different from mine."

So, this is where I'm at. Of course I'd rather have have true 51 audio than not, but price is a real issue for me so if using toslink (which I don't understand other than you have suggested it and you've obviously got the experience to know what you are talking about - so it sounds like it might be my solution) makes it possible that's the way I want to go. Can you tell me how I can tell if my JVC amplifier will handle this or not? My Mac Mini is an early one. It has one input for headphone or speakers and I've been told can only use 3.1 not 5.1 but of course I'd like to try for 5.1 if there is a way.

#2 IllusionX has suggested that going for this type of solution will actually result in lower quality speakers than the Bose Companion 2. Which, of course, would be somewhat "silly". Do you agree with IllusionX? 
Thanks


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## digitddog (Jul 5, 2006)

PurpleConeFlower said:


> After listening to the advice I'm getting I've decided that my best solution is to merge my Mac Mini and my sound system to get the best of both worlds... instead of upgrading each separately. I don't need two independant sound systems anyway.


PCF, do you have an existing stereo system that you're currently happy with? If so, and you're plan is to listen to music on your Mac mini via iTunes, you might consider hooking the mini and the stereo together via an Apple Airport Express. It's a wireless solution that works with any Wi-Fi system you may have. 

Alternatively, if you want a set of powered desktop speakers, you might look into a used set of Harmon Kardon Soundsticks. I've heard them briefly, in a colleagues office, and they sounded good. Not much at the bottom end, but what was there was tight and well behaved. The mids were adequate and the highs were detailed without being overly bright or sibilant. The funky design may not be to everyone's taste though.

Or headphones...?


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## jicon (Jan 12, 2005)

Well, they aren't under $100 new, but how about AudioEngine?

Audioengine - Upgrade your music


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## PurpleConeFlower (Sep 21, 2009)

I'm using Seinheiser HD205 which are excellent for when I'm sitting at the computer but they are not wireless and it means I have to remain tethered to the computer, and nobody else can hear the music but me. Not the best way to live and listen to music at the same time. 

The Harmon Kardon Soundsticks is a novel and creative idea. It really helps to hear from the ehMac experts... it is all starting to make more sense. I'm now seriously looking at merging my old wired sound system with the MAC and having only one sound system instead of two. I need to replace the gigantic speakers I'm using now with smaller ones.


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

PurpleConeFlower said:


> So, this is where I'm at. Of course I'd rather have have true 51 audio than not, but price is a real issue for me so if using toslink (which I don't understand other than you have suggested it and you've obviously got the experience to know what you are talking about - so it sounds like it might be my solution) makes it possible that's the way I want to go.


My bad.. I should have mentioned that "Toslink" is another word for "Optical."


I couldn't find any information on your amplifier at JVC.. nothing at all. Sorry I couldn't be much more help.

That said.. the suggestion for the Airport Express is a novel one if all you want to do is stream your music from your Mac Mini to your current receiver. The only thing is.. it's just music from iTunes, not any other audio such as movies.


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

Just reading between the lines, you seem to be someone with a discerning ear who won't "just settle" for anything but none the less are, like all of us, constrained by a budget.

If you are going to run your iTunes library through a better quality hifi system, and given what I think are your criteria regarding what is "good sound", I would avoid streaming solutions and go with good old copper or optical connections. That may mean moving the Mini close to your audio system.

The Airport Express is great at getting music wirelessly around the home, and is better than most of the competition, but falls short quality wise, once you get past a certain point in your expectations. It's great for mp3s/AAC or other lossy compressed music, but you seem to be more demanding than that. If that's the case, I would spend my money elsewhere on the system, if necessary.

As it is now, all you need to do is run a cable or two and move the mini, spending nothing in the process. Any upgrades would probably center around a good USB or FW D/A converter, but if you have an optical input on your system now, go with that and see what you think. If you need to use the analog output of the Mini, you may then want to think about the USB/FW D/A converter; the built-in D/A converter on the Mac is adequate but nothing more.


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## PurpleConeFlower (Sep 21, 2009)

*Answer to*

I can't say I'm particularly happy with my sound system. It's old. Although I'm happier that I have a sound system instead of no sound system but I'm definitely not going to be upgrading everything on it anytime soon. It turns out my amplifier is 15 years old and I have one of the earlier Mac Mini's. It seems that everything I own is analog - including the Mac Mini. In the specs it says that this Mac Mini system does not contain any Fibre Channel devices. My son says I must get a new audio card for the Mac before I'll be able to feed the audio into my sound system. If I do wouldn't that mean that the Z-5300E speakers should work without too much trouble?


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

Stop the head spinning ... it's not worth it.

Analog = what you hear, what your speakers make, what the band was making when it was recorded. No analog ... no sound.

Digital = a storage and processing stage. Because the band plays in analog, it needs to be converted to digital if we are going to use digital (and computers only do sound that way). Because we hear in analog, it needs to be converted back from digital to analog if we use computers, since all they do is digital.

The only question is, when and where do we do the translation from analog to digital, and back. You have choices here, and what you choose will determine what kind of money the project will demand. Free (or nearly free) is certainly possible.

The age of your Mini or HiFi may not really be relevant to your goal, nor are they necessarily drawbacks ... both can do adequate jobs with sound, and modern Mini's don't do the digital-to-analog conversion any better than old Mini's. The age of the Mac is not an issue. Relax.

The age of your hifi may or may not be an issue, but broadly speaking, it probably isn't. All Minis will output analog audio, if that's what your hifi wants to see. Relax again.

All you really need is a 3.5mm mini stereo phone plug to 2x RCA plug cable. They sell them literally everywhere, and although the very cheapest thing on the planet may not be the best idea, the mid-priced stuff goes for numbers like $5 and $10. Good enough.

Hook that up, and then decide if you need to spend more money.

Note that "going digital" won't get you better sound, necessarily, and certainly won't until you've spend in the three figures.

Hook up what you have and think about it. Chances are, you're OK with it as it is.


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## digitddog (Jul 5, 2006)

The challenge with buying powered computer speakers is that most of the reviews are written by gamers (who want bass and a good soundstage) or video watchers (who want big booms (THX) and Dolby 5.1 sound). And in general, computer speaker manufacturers tend to target these lucrative markets. 

That leaves music listeners – who care about things like detail, musicality and transparency – out in the cold. Normally, the last place I'd look for an audio review is CNET. BUT...try this page of recent reviews.

I think these reviews might be more credible than most because 1) they give good reviews to products I've either heard and enjoyed (HK Soundsticks) or that other music listeners seem to respect (M-Audio) and 2) the reviews actually discuss music.

Getting good detail from music usually requires superior tweeters and nuance requires a rich midrange. I'm not sure how well $100 computer speakers will deliver on these, but it sounds like you have some choices near that price range, particularly if you can find them used.

(As for me, I still prefer listening to music from my 20-year-old stereo!  )


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## PurpleConeFlower (Sep 21, 2009)

*plus*

I'm grateful to you, Honorable Gord. Thank you for your considerate and considerable guidance. 

digidog - your comment rings a harmonious chord with me! - and thanks to the experts here at ehMac I'm beginning to find my way from very confused to hopeful of finding the right solution.


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## digitddog (Jul 5, 2006)

*Z-2300 for $100*

PCF, not sure if you're still visiting ehmac, but if you are, here's a follow-up. There was some talk about Logitech speakers and their relative value. Well, Best Buy has Logitech Z-2300 for $100 ($131 off their regular price). They appear to be well rated by the users on the best buy site and by cnet.

They're out-of-stock online, but it looks like they will ship them at that price when they get a new shipment. Or you could check your local BB store.


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## crawford (Oct 8, 2005)

Unless you have one of the very first Mac Minis, it has a combination optical digital audio output. So if your JVC receiver does have an optical digital input, you'll just need a single optical digital audio cable (with a 3.5mm adapter plug for the Mini). Otherwise the suggestion of a 3.5mm to RCA will also work fine (and you may not even be able to hear the difference, especially if you're listening to MP3s).

The only (minor) downside of this set up is that all of your computer's audio output goes through your stereo system, including iCal notifications, new mail indicators, you tube video, etc.


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## PurpleConeFlower (Sep 21, 2009)

Sent to Digitdog, Crawford and Vexel: 

I've sent this to you personally as well as in the thread, to make sure you'd see it in case you aren't watching that thread anymore.

Since discovering that my Mac Mini does not have an optical input and neither does my 15 yr old JVC receiver, I've found a Logitech Z-5300E speaker system (subwoofer plus 2 speakers) from a local person for $100. Now I've been alerted by Digitdog that "Best Buy has Logitech Z-2300 for $100 ($131 off their regular price)". I've also been told that in order to have 5.1 sound (or even 3.1 sound) I first have to get a new Sound Card for my MacMini.

Can you comment about the difference between Logitech Z-2300, Z-5300E and the X5500 that you (Vexel) suggested in the first place. Since I haven't found X5500 and the Z-5300E will have no guarantee while the new Z-2300 will have a warranty - the difference between Z-2300 and Z-5300 is important to me. I had pretty much decided to get the Z-5300E system as well as an external sound card with optical for the mac mini. What would you advise?


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## crawford (Oct 8, 2005)

I'm not sure what 3.1 system you are referring to. If you mean two desktop speakers and a subwoofer, that's generally referred to as a 2.1 setup.

In either case, I can think of no reason why you would need an additional sound card for something like that to work. Just plug the subwoofer into the Mini and the satellite speakers into the subwoofer -- easy.

I would still recommend the previous advice about wiring up your mini to your existing stereo system (assuming that you are pleased with its sound quality, in comparison to the speakers that you currently have).


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## IllusionX (Mar 10, 2009)

haven't read the thread in a couple days...

digitddog: The soundsticks are of amazing sound quality, but nowhere near what the OP is looking for.

PurpleConeFlower: You know you are actually telling me you want more power rather than better sound quality. I warn you, you are not going to have any better sound quality with the logitech's. Though, the logitech will be more powerful, and will provide more boom.

I may sound rude, but please.. just say so you simply want more power. The JBL you had (no matter which multimedia (computer) speakers you had) are nowhere near the quality of the Bose.


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## freeboater (Jul 11, 2008)

I would recommend you try these out. They're less than 100 new and I've had the older model for about 10 years. They're great for projection and sound quality. I've never had them over halfway.

Future Shop: Computer Add-Ons: Computer Speakers: Altec Lansing 2.1 Speaker System (VS4121BLK)


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

Although they work ok for movies attached to a DVD, I found the Altecs to have a gap between the midrange and the subwoofer that was unmusical for serious listening. I'm still a 2.0 guy, I haven't reconciled my listening to subwoofers (maybe because I have never heard a subwoofer system that was properly balanced between the subwoofer and the satellites.)


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## digitddog (Jul 5, 2006)

CanadaRAM said:


> I'm still a 2.0 guy, I haven't reconciled my listening to subwoofers (maybe because I have never heard a subwoofer system that was properly balanced between the subwoofer and the satellites.)


I hear ya. Bose came out with those teeny satellites with a subwoofer and they really took off. Now everyone makes them. But they really suffer in the midrange. To my ears, vocals sound strained or recessed, although the highs and lows are really appealing on first listen. But, if space is limited (as on a desktop), a powered 2.1 system is hard to beat.

(I don't think it's just an issue of the speaker crossover. Between the woofer and the tiny satellite, there isn't a driver that's tuned to those midrange frequencies.) Now, if only I could convince my wife that a new set of Paradigm or Mirage towers would fit our den...


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

" ... The only (minor) downside of this set up is that all of your computer's audio output goes through your stereo system, including iCal notifications, new mail indicators, you tube video, etc. ..."

Not sure if there would be a downside to audio while watching YouTube (or other) video; seems to me most people would want audio for video.

However, as for the other stuff (iCal notifications, new mail indicators, every other nagging sound that apps love to throw at you) the solution is simple and has been around forever ... pre OSX days.

The actual configuration varies a bit by OS, but basically it's the same.
On OSX 10.5 it would be:
Go to:
System Preferences: Sound
Select the "Sound Effects" tab;
At this point you have some choices; you can simply de-select the checkboxes:
-Play user interface sound effects
-Play feedback when volume is changed
-Play front row sound effects
I recommend you also move the slider at "Alert Volume" all the way to the left to pick up any other miscellaneous alert or feedback sounds, perhaps by 3rd party apps
Move the slider for "Output volume" all the way to the right
... and although it's optional, I like to check the checkbox at:
Show volume in menu bar.

iTunes, YouTube, QuickTime, any other audio or video apps; anything playing in a browser, etc will play through the speakers (or any audio output if you use headphones or external speakers).

The startup chime will also sound; you can defeat that (usually) by hitting the mute key on the keyboard just before shutdown.

That covers about 99% of any unwanted sounds that might pop up from time to time.

To take that any further, you need to download an appropriate app to enable application-by-application custom sound settings. Audio Hijack Pro is probably the best example, it costs around $40 or so.

An example where Audio Hijack Pro would be helpful would be to defeat audio from Safari or another web browser, without affecting audio output from iTunes, QuickTime, etc so that some idiot's idea of a website that includes who-knows-what sounds on the home page doesn't play when you are listening to iTunes and browsing at the same time. it's also a useful app in it's own right if you do podcasts or other audio/video work.


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## crawford (Oct 8, 2005)

I guess my point was that it's unfortunate that you have to choose one or the other. I like having the audio notifications for things like mail and calendar events, IM notifications, etc., but find them to sound odd or slightly disconnected from my computer when they are coming from an audio system. But I still like hearing better quality audio from my music when I'm playing it from my iMac, so I put up with it and have tried to achieve a balance between the volume of alerts and the volume output of iTunes. 

Now that I have typed that out, it sounds sort of silly.... guess it's a quirk of mine.


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

CanadaRAM said:


> Although they work ok for movies attached to a DVD, I found the Altecs to have a gap between the midrange and the subwoofer that was unmusical for serious listening. I'm still a 2.0 guy, I haven't reconciled my listening to subwoofers (maybe because I have never heard a subwoofer system that was properly balanced between the subwoofer and the satellites.)


I was the same way.. until I got into building a theatre system for movies.

Now, I've got a Yamaha HTR-6130(soon to be upgraded) pushing 2 Energy CF-30's a couple of smaller drivers for center and rear surrounds and an Energy S10.3 Sub.

The interesting thing I started wondering... is could it handle my music tastes properly? I can tell you.. it absolutely can. Once I tweeked the crossover settings between the front drivers and the sub.. it was all gravy. 

Another thing I've started to get into is SACD and DVD-A music re-mastered in DTS or AC3 5.1. Phenomenal sound. Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon never sounded so complete..


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## PurpleConeFlower (Sep 21, 2009)

Re: Sent to Digitdog, Crawford and Vexel: Further to your previous advice... Oct 19, 10:43 PM 

digitddog Full Citizen Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Calgary Posts: 237

Re: Further to your previous advice...
At this point, I think I'd argue for the Z-2300. Here's why:

1. If your interest is in music, a 2.1 system, like the Z-2300, is a better bet. (5.1 surround systems are intended for home theatre). Audiophiles tend to stick to 2.1 systems.
2. In almost every audio system, the quality bottleneck is the speakers and most people underspend on them. With a 5.1 system, you're effectively trying to buy six speakers for $100. But with a 2.1 system, you're just trying to buy three. So you can guess where the better quality speakers are likely to be found. (If I've read correctly, both the 5300 and 5500 are 5.1 systems.)
3. An external sound card will certainly jack up the price dramatically, above and beyond the $100 limit you have on speakers. The 2300 (a straight 2.1 system) will run out of the headphone jack of your mini, no additional sound card required (providing that the music you want to listen to is on your hard drive.)

Let me know if I've misunderstood the situation, but if quality music is your biggest concern, spend your money on better speakers. 

 PurpleConeFlower
New Neighbour

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Montreal
Posts: 9

Your explanation of the reason for staying with 2.1 speakers
Yes, music is the main point. I'm also trying to get movies and videos playing on my TV instead of only on my Mac monitor, which of course is another issue. Your explanation of the difference between Audiophiles strict music focuses as opposed to the focus of the Home Theatre issues now makes sense to me. It didn't before. I thought 5.1 would always be preferable to 2.1 if I could find a way to get that. Now I see the difference, and truthfully when listening to films and videos - while I have really noticed the difference at times. My concern for better sound definitely is applicable to music and so your argument that it is more intelligent to put as much as possible into the two speakers makes sense. This has been a real education! Thanks again for the explanation.

I'm going to follow your advice and try for the Z-2300 2.1 speaker system from Best Buy. The C-Net review is truly not to be ignored. When I search at BestBuy (I used the link you sent to me) the price they are selling for is $230, so I'm hoping the link wasn't correct in your message yesterday. 

I checked myself and, I'm surprised to say, it looks like the price has increased! The original posting said the sale would last for several days. Here's the original link... 

 
Private Message: I didn't move fast enough so I missed it.
Recipients: digitddog
Today, 02:27 AM 
PurpleConeFlower
New Neighbour

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Montreal
Posts: 9

I didn't move fast enough so I missed it.
I found a price of $130 on Amazon but it also is out of stock and comes from California. And a refurbished set for $80 but again from US so no real warranty. I'm kicking myself now because maybe if I'd just gone to the link when you sent it I could have ordered it for that price.

I clicked on your link again and it said it right on the site that the offer was posted on the 19th and ends on the 19th.

Thanks for all your help. It is really a good feeling to connect with people who don't mind sharing their knowledge.

So I'm wiser but still have these Bose Companion Speakers and can't afford to go for the Logitechs. However, I do know what I really do need and in the meantime I'm going to return the Bose speakers and connect to the soundsystem as GordGuide originally advised me to.

G'night and thanks again. 


Private Message: Re: I didn't move fast enough so I missed it.
Today, 09:06 AM 
digitddog
Full Citizen

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Calgary
Posts: 237

Re: I didn't move fast enough so I missed it.
This might be cold consolation, but there's probably value in waiting. It might give you a chance to visit a store and hear the speakers before buying. Who knows, they might not be what you're really after. Everyone hears differently. Good luck.


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## PurpleConeFlower (Sep 21, 2009)

*Reply to crawford-->>*



crawford said:


> I'm not sure what 3.1 system you are referring to. If you mean two desktop speakers and a subwoofer, that's generally referred to as a 2.1 setup.
> 
> In either case, I can think of no reason why you would need an additional sound card for something like that to work. Just plug the subwoofer into the Mini and the satellite speakers into the subwoofer -- easy.
> 
> I would still recommend the previous advice about wiring up your mini to your existing stereo system (assuming that you are pleased with its sound quality, in comparison to the speakers that you currently have).


The Z-2300 2.1 speaker system $100 deal from Best Buy recommended by Digitdog turned out to be a one day deal and is back up to $230 so I've given up on that idea and am back to GordGuide's suggestion (and your repeat of it) to simply transmit directly from the Mini into the sound system before even thinking of upgrading the sound system speakers.

Although on second thought I am still wondering if I should go back to the local seller with the used Z-5300 set for $100 while he still has them.


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## PurpleConeFlower (Sep 21, 2009)

*Reply to IllusionX -->>*



IllusionX said:


> haven't read the thread in a couple days...
> 
> digitddog: The soundsticks are of amazing sound quality, but nowhere near what the OP is looking for.
> 
> ...


The JBLs weren't multimedia they were big expensive speakers I bought in the 80s for my sound system and are still providing exceptional sound on my son's surround sound system. So good that I realized what I was missing when I listened to his new setup. The Bose Companion 2 speakers are pretty good but even my long deprived ears can tell that there is more sensitivity and delicacy with the sound system setup. Maybe it isn't actually the power - maybe it's something else that I don't understand enough to be able to identify what it is. The effect isn't easy to describe - but I'll try - It's almost as though there's more space in the sound - more dimension - so much so that you can almost see space supporting even the slightest breath of a sound. It is really quite remarkable as though you aren't just listening to the notes and combinations of notes but are also listening to all the varieties of silence in between and around the music. This may sound wierd but it's what I experienced and what I want to get with my own system.


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

" ... The effect isn't easy to describe - but I'll try - It's almost as though there's more space in the sound - more dimension - so much so that you can almost see space supporting even the slightest breath of a sound. It is really quite remarkable as though you aren't just listening to the notes and combinations of notes but are also listening to all the varieties of silence in between and around the music. This may sound wierd but it's what I experienced and what I want to get with my own system. ..."

That does not sound the least bit weird; that sounds like you have a discerning ear and simply don't know the language insiders would use to describe the same things. I understand, however, exactly what you mean.

The audiophile press would use the terms 'definition', 'dynamic range', 'blackness', 'imaging' and 'air' (where you say "more space"; "slightest breath of a sound" and "all the varieties of silence in between and around"; and broadly speaking your description falls under the general category of "musicality".

Wes Phillips rather famously once said in a review "there's more "there" there".

Good luck with your project and quest, and whether you know it or not, you are an audiophile, in contrast to a significant minority of computer journalists, despite using what they call a "high end audio processor" which is, at best, mid-fi, paired to headphones that are probably quite good, but aren't among those considered high-end by most people who pay attention to these things.

Considering their test equipment are both items previously reviewed by the same team of journalists, and therefore were probably hanging around the offices as freebies, I can (barely) forgive their choices, but not the test methodology.

However, at 300 and 500 UK pounds, respectively, I would have no trouble finding better gear at half that price which would at least have reproduced more of the inherent differences between a low-rez compressed format and a hi-rez compressed format, neither of which are "audiophile quality" nor even "CD quality".

I guess they don't hand out as freebie review samples of Sennhieser 600's or Benchmark headphone DAC's to computer journals (MSRP $US 450 and $US 450, respectively).


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## PurpleConeFlower (Sep 21, 2009)

gordguide said:


> " ... The only (minor) downside of this set up is that all of your computer's audio output goes through your stereo system, including iCal notifications, new mail indicators, you tube video, etc. ..."
> 
> Not sure if there would be a downside to audio while watching YouTube (or other) video; seems to me most people would want audio for video.
> 
> ...


I'm copying all your comments into a "Sound Configuration" printout to follow as soon as I get this sound system connected. I have to reorganize the Living Room to get both the sound and computer systems better integrated into the space and easier to get at. This is more challenging than you might imagine since the space is so tight. 

What type of artist are you? Besides being a sound artist.


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## PurpleConeFlower (Sep 21, 2009)

*To: Freeboater, CanadaRAM & digitdog -->>*



freeboater said:


> I would recommend you try these out. They're less than 100 new and I've had the older model for about 10 years. They're great for projection and sound quality. I've never had them over halfway.
> 
> Future Shop: Computer Add-Ons: Computer Speakers: Altec Lansing 2.1 Speaker System (VS4121BLK)





CanadaRAM said:


> Although they work ok for movies attached to a DVD, I found the Altecs to have a gap between the midrange and the subwoofer that was unmusical for serious listening. I'm still a 2.0 guy, I haven't reconciled my listening to subwoofers (maybe because I have never heard a subwoofer system that was properly balanced between the subwoofer and the satellites.)





digitddog said:


> I hear ya. Bose came out with those teeny satellites with a subwoofer and they really took off. Now everyone makes them. But they really suffer in the midrange. To my ears, vocals sound strained or recessed, although the highs and lows are really appealing on first listen. But, if space is limited (as on a desktop), a powered 2.1 system is hard to beat.
> 
> (I don't think it's just an issue of the speaker crossover. Between the woofer and the tiny satellite, there isn't a driver that's tuned to those midrange frequencies.) Now, if only I could convince my wife that a new set of Paradigm or Mirage towers would fit our den...


I was going after the Altec Lansing VS4121 but then started noticing people complaining that there is a lot missing from them, so I dropped that idea.
Maybe that was because of what you are describing about the midrange frequencies...


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## PurpleConeFlower (Sep 21, 2009)

*Re Audio Notifications*



crawford said:


> I guess my point was that it's unfortunate that you have to choose one or the other. I like having the audio notifications for things like mail and calendar events, IM notifications, etc., but find them to sound odd or slightly disconnected from my computer when they are coming from an audio system. But I still like hearing better quality audio from my music when I'm playing it from my iMac, so I put up with it and have tried to achieve a balance between the volume of alerts and the volume output of iTunes.
> 
> Now that I have typed that out, it sounds sort of silly.... guess it's a quirk of mine.


 about the audio notifications - what you say does make sense but I don't bother with those anyway and I'm not into messaging at all anymore so that won't affect me...


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## PurpleConeFlower (Sep 21, 2009)

*I haven't visited that planet yet!*



Vexel said:


> I was the same way.. until I got into building a theatre system for movies.
> 
> Now, I've got a Yamaha HTR-6130(soon to be upgraded) pushing 2 Energy CF-30's a couple of smaller drivers for center and rear surrounds and an Energy S10.3 Sub.
> 
> ...


Once I'm set up on my sound system with some kind of 2.1 speaker system I'm going to try to understand how to "tweek.. crossover settings between the front drivers and the sub" and "SACD and DVD-A ... in DTS or AC3" but for now it sounds like something from Arcturus. Something to look forward to... or ... is this something I need to plan before I upgrade to 2.1?


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

" ... I like having the audio notifications for things like mail and calendar events, IM notifications, etc., ..."

I believe in most cases you can have visual indicators (eg: title bar flashing) over audio ones if you check the preferences of most apps that use such things.


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

PurpleConeFlower said:


> Once I'm set up on my sound system with some kind of 2.1 speaker system I'm going to try to understand how to "tweek.. crossover settings between the front drivers and the sub"


The crossover settings refer to the frequency below which the signal is not sent to the satellites and is sent to the subwoofer instead. In automobile terms, it would mean the difference between first and second gear - a well spaced gear ratio shifts smoothly while a poorly chosen gearing will cause over revving or lugging at the 'crossover' speeds. 

A well balanced audio system 'shifts' between bass and satellite smoothly, with little perceptible difference in the overall tonality as the frequencies shift between speakers. But - it is difficult and relatively expensive to engineer a system with that good of a balance. The satellites have to go low enough to overlap the high bass frequencies of the sub, and the sub has to maintain a reasonably linerar response high enough to overlap the satellites' low midrange. Plus the crossover circuit has to be designed not to introduce its own distortions to the sound.

Be prepared for the fact that most budget 2.1 and 5.1 systems offer little or no control over crossover settings or equalization.

And tweaking crossover settings won't help if the satellite's drivers simply don't reproduce the low midrange and high-bass frequencies, or if the response of the bass driver (as in most budget subwoofers) is wildly non-linear.

Which is why, as I commented earlier, I have never heard a system with a subwoofer (and certainly not any budget one) that has been balanced to my satisfaction - although I concede it is possible with a matched set of quality drivers and a receiver or controller that has the controls to tailor the sound to the room.


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

PurpleConeFlower said:


> Once I'm set up on my sound system with some kind of 2.1 speaker system I'm going to try to understand how to "tweek.. crossover settings between the front drivers and the sub" and "SACD and DVD-A ... in DTS or AC3" but for now it sounds like something from Arcturus. Something to look forward to... or ... is this something I need to plan before I upgrade to 2.1?


For what it's worth, these are things I've gotten into over time. 

As my budget can afford it.. I keep adding to my system. I've had a slew of 2.1 and 5.1 systems as I mentioned before... but, nothing I've had before compares to the quality of what my system reproduces now.

For most people.. it's a wash.. they don't understand me when I tell them about "more space" or "breaths on notes." So, you are in fact an audiophile as GordGuide mentioned.. and this will expand over time. It has for me and I'm sure it will for you as your budget allots it.

For now.. just test systems and see what you think. You can definitely get some decent sounding systems, but nothing that you'll likely be able to tweak, as CanadaRAM mentioned.. these systems just won't compare to a dedicated receiver and speakers.

Keep in mind that wattage has very little influence on the "quality" of music that your system re-produces. It is a power handling term that has become greatly exaggerated. Just something to watch out for when you're speaking with the likes of FS and BB salesmen.


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## PurpleConeFlower (Sep 21, 2009)

To CanadaRAM, which type of multimedia speakers are you using on your own system? Or are you mostly using your sound system for your music and if so what type of sound setup do you have there?


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## PurpleConeFlower (Sep 21, 2009)

IllusionX said:


> I don't understand why you are looking to downgrade your speakers. The Bose Companion 2 is really the best bang for the buck when it comes to quality+compact size.
> 
> Anyways.. I couldn't find anything, for that price range (i paid 74.99$+tax 3 years ago) that offers such quality.
> 
> Anything else i have had, had worse sound quality, thought they offered more power. I also do not understand why you are looking to have more power.. The bose are certainly much better than the Koss you've had.


Sorry, I didn't explain that properly back on page 1... the JBL speakers I was referring to were for my sound system. I thought you could connect anything to anything with adapters, however, now I see that talking about JBLs on my sound system and "whatever" on the MacMini is kind of like apples and oranges.


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## PurpleConeFlower (Sep 21, 2009)

To everyone who provided advice and information and who might still be interested in the outcome... as advised I purchased a good quality 35 mm cable and connected my macmini directly to my stereo system amplifier. Even though the speakers on my stereo need to be upgraded to provide the level of sound I'm looking for, this one step has permitted me to return the Bose Computer speakers to Costco and is providing higher quality sound than I was getting using the Bose speakers attached to my computer. This has proven to be the best and most economical solution. Thanks for all the help!!


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