# Mac Mini Server failure rates?



## Guest

I have to say that I'm getting less and less impressed with the Mac mini servers as time goes by. In the last month I've seen 2 hard drive failures in them with clients, and in both cases it took over a week for the "parts" to arrive (i.e. hard drives) in order to get them repaired. I'm not sure if it's just a bad run of hard drives to blame or a design problem with the mini servers. 

In both cases the drives didn't report SMART errors, just started having massive I/O issues and both got to the point where they would just lock up the machine randomly and/or not mount or boot from the drives. Both failures where the top drive. From what the Apple stores told my clients it's a "special" hard drive that they had to order which meant that both clients were without their servers for multiple days while waiting on the "special" hard drives to arrive.

Anyone else seeing these kinds of issues? I'm wondering if it's a design issue/heat problem with the top drives. I've seen a lot of others complaining about top drive failures on the apple support discussions too.

I think there's something to be said for running a server that you can easily swap the hard drive on (without invalidating your warranty) and that you can run server class hard drives in (not laptop drives). I am concerned about this because pretty much anyone that has walked into the actual Apple store looking for a server gets sold one of these. There are a LOT of them out there. It has even gone so far that one client we sent to the Apple store to pick up a Mac Pro to run as a server had to be very insistent with the sales people in order to get what they wanted because the Apple Store people were trying to push them into forgetting the whole "Mac Pro idea" because they "weren't meant to be servers" and just buy a Mac Mini server instead because it "would be better" and that the mac mini's were "designed to be servers" (ya right). Thankfully the client just kept saying no and finally got them to order what they needed. He said it literally took 15 minutes of saying no until they finally placed his order.

Also I think it's pretty essential for a piece of server hardware to have 2 NICs, but that's another argument altogether


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## monokitty

It's a bad batch of hard drives; the systems themselves are not cooking the drives. The mini is relatively rock-solid, but the hard drives can be spotty. (In all machines, not limited to the mini.)


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## Guest

Thanks for that info Lars. Do you know if they are indeed "special" hard drives? I'd be very suspicious if they were ... special mounts maybe but the drives themselves should be standard, no?


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## eMacMan

I am not completely convinced that 2.5 inch drives are as reliable as 3.5s. I know I have seen a lot more failures of the smaller drives but have always assumed that had something to do with the portable use most of these drives see.

Good info Lars as I was considering the purchase of a Mini later this year.


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## monokitty

mguertin said:


> Thanks for that info Lars. Do you know if they are indeed "special" hard drives? I'd be very suspicious if they were ... special mounts maybe but the drives themselves should be standard, no?


I can't confirm; they appear to be normal drives, but at 7200 RPM. Whether or not they're of higher quality for server purposes, I can't tell.


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## Guest

They just seem to be standard Hitachi 7200rpm 500G drives from what I can tell from the software side of things.


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## MacDoc

They are normal drives.


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## screature

Seems like your hard drive curse continues mg.... even to your clients..... maybe it is just you and you have some special quality that kills HDs.... if that were the case you could probably make a fortune off of that hidden/unknown ability. ....

The military and CSIS could be *VERY* interested in your "gift".


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## Guest

LOL screature.


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## Lawrence

I've never used the internal drives on any of my mini's,
Always used external drives, No failures yet.


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## screature

Lawrence said:


> I've never used the internal drives on any of my mini's,
> Always used external drives, No failures yet.


Not much point in buying a Mini server if you don't take advantage of the fact that they have faster hard drives and two of them.

Why would you not use the internal drive?


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## Guest

screature said:


> Not much point in buying a Mini server if you don't take advantage of the fact that they have faster hard drives and two of them.
> 
> Why would you not use the internal drive?


How else would you be able to get Apple hardware for < $1000 and that comes with OSX server. There's no other offerings in that price point, let alone that comes with the server software bundled. Server is still $499 by itself so it's a better deal to buy the mini server if you need OSX server than it would be to buy the normal mini + server software separate.


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## screature

mguertin said:


> How else would you be able to get Apple hardware for < $1000 and that comes with OSX server. There's no other offerings in that price point, let alone that comes with the server software bundled. Server is still $499 by itself so it's a better deal to buy the mini server if you need OSX server than it would be to buy the normal mini + server software separate.


I think you misunderstood my post to Lawrence mg. What I was saying is there is no point in buying a Mini server if you don't make use of the internal drives. Lawrence seemed to be advocating for not using the internal drive(s) in a Mini so I was trying to point out to him that if you buy a Mini server part of the reason why you are buying it is specifically to make use of the dual hard drives in them.


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## Guest

screature said:


> I think you misunderstood my post to Lawrence mg. What I was saying is there is no point in buying a Mini server if you don't make use of the internal drives. Lawrence seemed to be advocating for not using the internal drive(s) in a Mini so I was trying to point out to him that if you buy a Mini server part of the reason why you are buying it is specifically to make use of the dual hard drives in them.


Yep I understood what you were saying, but even if you don't use the internal drives (which are not really server calibre to be honest) you're still getting a good deal. If you bought the standard mini and OSX server you'd be paying more $$ than buying the mini server bundle. It's still the cheapest way to get a brand new working machine and OSX server.


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## screature

mguertin said:


> Yep *I understood what you were saying*, but even if you don't use the internal drives (which are not really server calibre to be honest) you're still getting a good deal. If you bought the standard mini and OSX server you'd be paying more $$ than buying the mini server bundle. * It's still the cheapest way to get a brand new working machine and OSX server.*


Well ok if you say so, but I wasn't trying to indicate that the Mini server wasn't good value for money so I am not quite sure why you're pointing this out in response to my post.

Yep agreed... Although with Lion I guess the software (OS) aspect will become essentially moot.


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## Lawrence

screature said:


> I think you misunderstood my post to Lawrence mg. What I was saying is there is no point in buying a Mini server if you don't make use of the internal drives. Lawrence seemed to be advocating for not using the internal drive(s) in a Mini so I was trying to point out to him that if you buy a Mini server part of the reason why you are buying it is specifically to make use of the dual hard drives in them.


Question appears to be answered.


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## screature

Lawrence said:


> Question appears to be answered.


Not really.... mg replied on an unrelated subject... it remains an open question to you....
Why would you not use the internal drives of a Mac Mini?


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## Guest

mguertin said:


> It's still the cheapest way to get a brand new working machine and OSX server.


^^^ That's the answer. It's the cheapest way to get a brand new mac and OSX server (whether or not you use the internal drives is irrelevant), it's all about the machine and the OS.


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## groovetube

mguertin said:


> ^^^ that's the answer. It's the cheapest way to get a brand new mac and osx server (whether or not you use the internal drives is irrelevant), it's all about the machine and the os.


+1


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## Lawrence

screature said:


> Not really.... mg replied on an unrelated subject... it remains an open question to you....
> Why would you not use the internal drives of a Mac Mini?


Sometimes I really don't know why I bother joining these conversations.


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## screature

I understand the OSX server portion of the discussion. 

I was not making myself clear and it is my fault for mixing into the equation the server version of the Mini which of course has the server OSX and then can for users who require it make it good value for money regardless of whether or not you use the internal drives. I totally get that, but it really wasn't the point I was trying to focus on and for that it is my bad. 

The real question I was asking to Lawrence is why would he never use the drives in a Mini? They are the same drives found in Macbooks or Macbook Pros the fastest speed you can get with an external drive is FW800 and only FW400 with earlier gen Minis. Swap in a 7200 rpm drive (which of course the server version already has) in the Mini and it is much faster than anything you can get via an external drive, so if you are going to avoid the stock Mini internal drive you are further ahead by swapping it out... at least as far as performance goes and it is no less "secure" or reliable than an external HD.

Really I am just curious as to why Lawrence is choosing to avoid using the internal drive of a Mini as I have made use of every internal drive (including the ones I didn't swap out for faster drives) in the Minis I have (and had) over the years and I have never had a drive failure.


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## Lawrence

Whatever brings you enjoyment.


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## screature

Lawrence said:


> Whatever brings you enjoyment.


Not sure what to make of that post... But whatever... Peace.


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## Guest

screature said:


> Really I am just curious as to why Lawrence is choosing to avoid using the internal drive of a Mini as I have made use of every internal drive (including the ones I didn't swap out for faster drives) in the Minis I have (and had) over the years and I have never had a drive failure.


I've had several drive failures in mac Minis (personal ones, not just with clients), but that's not a surprise ... it seems to be my talent ... to kill hard drives  I've also owned 5 mac mini's and they've all run 24/7 for their lifetime.


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## groovetube

me too, it's no different than the MBPs, they tend to go often enough after time.

backup backup.


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## screature

groovetube said:


> me too, it's no different than the MBPs, they tend to go often enough after time.
> 
> *backup backup*.


Agreed... always, always...


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## screature

mguertin said:


> I've had several drive failures in mac Minis (personal ones, not just with clients), but that's not a surprise ... it seems to be my talent ... to kill hard drives  I've also owned 5 mac mini's and they've all run 24/7 for their lifetime.


I'm telling you mg you have a special gift.... 

All kidding aside, I don't push my Minis that hard, except for my wife's which is always "on" but has been set to go to sleep after 1 hour of inactivity and I have told her to sleep it as opposed to shutting it down... it is about 3 years old now with no problems. She is what I would consider an "average" user and it runs on the stock internal drive.


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