# Quick TomTom app review



## Phat Bastard (Jan 3, 2003)

Last night I was excited to see the TomTom app in the App Store so I jumped the gun and bought it. My rationale was I don't mind spending $99 for the app because:

a) I can sell my Garmin 200 for something like $65 on eBay, recovering some of the cost of the TomTom app
b) I don't want my iPhone AND my GPS plugged into my car at once--too much clutter with the cables and multiple devices.
c) I have a Griffin RoadTrip (and I love it) and my plan was to continue use this as the mount for the iPhone
d) There were good reviews of the app on its App Store page
e) The interface looked pretty good in the pics and videos and I was willing to try something different than the Garmin interface.

The biggest thing was I didn't want to have TWO devices sitting in my car, I'm a big fan of integration of devices.

The download took some time since it is over 1 GB. Installation took an even longer time as it required more than 2 GB free space (the extra 1 GB could be recovered after installation). All was smooth with the installation.

I fired up the app and it looked really good. I liked the interface and everything was pretty responsive, even on my "old" iPhone 3G.

Next I headed out to the car, mounted the iPhone in the RoadTrip, and set up a destination address. The app found my address easily and plotted a course. However, I soon realized a BIG problem with the app: it was difficult to get a good GPS signal and the app regularly complained "Poor GPS signal". This could have to do with the fact the RoadTrip is not high up on my car's console (it sticks out from my cigarette adapter, which is located at the bottom of my car's radio/AC console) and maybe the GPS unit was having trouble communicating. So I laid the iPhone flat on my car's dash, and the app started getting better GPS signal. Still, it was having trouble and would often complain about poor signal (albeit less than with the RoadTrip).

I also noticed the app was eating up my battery life like crazy. Now my iPhone 3G's battery life has been TERRIBLE after the 3.0 update, so much that I often turn off 3G which I never did before 3.0. So I am used to having a power source handy to charge up the iPhone, and I figured I would be in the car anyway so I could just keep the iPhone charging in the RoadTrip.

The app pretty much became useless without GPS signal, obviously. I was under the assumption that the app would be functional without the cradle. So my purchase was a poor one and I'm pretty ticked off actually. I'm going to be calling TomTom support tomorrow for help and to complain. I will ask for a refund if I don't get this thing working to the point of actually being useable. How does one get a refund for an app?? 

Overall I'd encourage everyone to hold off on buying this app until further evidence about how successfully the app is able to use the iPhone's GPS chip.


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## southin (Dec 19, 2008)

*Navigon*

By contrast, I am exceedingly happy with the Navigon iPhone GPS app. Very accurate guidance, good signal reception (in my smart glass-top and in my MINI convertible, both of which, of course, would afford optimum reception). It's also cheaper than the Tom Tom (until the end of August). I find the Navigon to be better than my 2-year old top-of-the-line stand-alone Garmin Nuvi.


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## Phat Bastard (Jan 3, 2003)

I'm glad for you that the Navigon app works well. Now I wonder, if you better mimic my situation (a Jetta without a sunroof and the iPhone lower down on the console), would Navigon also have GPS reception issues? I'm thinking that this is the main issue here.


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## Phat Bastard (Jan 3, 2003)

Just an update. TomTom support told me to reset the iPhone and that would help the issue. I did it and it doesn't help.

I looked at the Navigon iPhone app FAQ and they claim factory resetting the iPhone will have a positive effect on the GPS signal. I'll try that next.


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## psycosis (Mar 29, 2005)

The Navigon app works well for my. I leave it in the cup holder at the bottom of the center console. The GPS signal never cuts out an appears to be accurate.


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## Skinner (Jul 17, 2008)

I've been using the Tom Tom app for 2 days now and have experienced none of the GPS signal problems you mention. I drive a Ford Focus and use a cigarette lighter mounted cradle which puts the iPhone 3G in front of my dash just left of the radio. The app takes longer to find a signal when mounted here than when laid flat on the dash but after the signal is acquired the app has performed flawlessly.

I did read somewhere about problems with a 12-volt power adapter and poor GPS signal. Are you powering the iPhone in the car with some sort of adapter? Not that it should be making a difference but that might be the case.

Cheers!
Kevin


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

not directly related to TOmTom but a few weeks back i noticed i wasn't getting any GPS signal on my iphone 3g. I did a few restarts and eventually it came back.... so maybe it's an issue with 3.0??


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## Phat Bastard (Jan 3, 2003)

Skinner said:


> I've been using the Tom Tom app for 2 days now and have experienced none of the GPS signal problems you mention. I drive a Ford Focus and use a cigarette lighter mounted cradle which puts the iPhone 3G in front of my dash just left of the radio. The app takes longer to find a signal when mounted here than when laid flat on the dash but after the signal is acquired the app has performed flawlessly.
> 
> I did read somewhere about problems with a 12-volt power adapter and poor GPS signal. Are you powering the iPhone in the car with some sort of adapter? Not that it should be making a difference but that might be the case.
> 
> ...


Hi Kevin, thanks for the post. I'm not sure what the distinction between a 12-volt power adapter and a cigarette lighter adapter/cradle is. The Griffin RoadTrip plugs into my cigarette lighter.

I've attached a couple of pics of my setup for clarity.


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## Skinner (Jul 17, 2008)

That's exactly what I was referring to - the adapter/cradle. There is a review in the App Store that describes a similar problem. Apparently the reviewer has a Belkin Tunebase FM transmitter and gets a very pool signal when the iPhone is docked. When undocked it works well. Check out the review in the Canadian App Store - it's titled "Great....Except!"

Cheers!
Kevin


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## Phat Bastard (Jan 3, 2003)

Ok, I see the review. The TomTom app does get a GPS signal more effectively when it's not docked but I need to keep it charging, the TomTom app eats battery life as if that's its primary function.

Indeed the app works better when I sit the phone on my dash, as you said you did as well, but that's not a viable solution.

Kevin, I'm curious how your cradle setup is different than mine. You said you are using a cigarette lighter mounted cradle--that's what the RoadTrip is as well. How is it your phone can get a GPS signal fix better than mine? Is your cradle relatively higher up than mine?

Is there any chance you can post a pic of your setup?

Taking everyone's experiences into account, I suspect it isn't the phone being docked per se that interferes with GPS signal. I think it's because these docks (like my RoadTrip and that App Store reviewer's Belkin Tunebase) are positioned relatively far away from the dash.


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## Skinner (Jul 17, 2008)

My cigarette lighter cradle is there to hold the iPhone only, not charge it. I bought it cheap at Canadian Tire for $9. It's just a convenient place to have my phone and I don't use the charging/FM transmitter features because it's not iPhone compatible. It's positioned up on my dash to the right of the steering wheel so probably has a better line of sight for GPS. I'd love to try it out and see if it does degrade my GPS signal but it won't charge or transmit FM because, I assume, it's incompatible.

Sorry I couldn't be of help.

K


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## Phat Bastard (Jan 3, 2003)

Ah I see, I understand now. Basically you're saying the facts that my cradle charges and/or transmits FM signals are the reasons why the GPS signal is poor. That's certainly a possibility!


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## psycosis (Mar 29, 2005)

I would also lik to point out that I have my iPhone charging when it uses the GPS with Navigon with no issues. I don't have any FM transmitting going on.


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## zlinger (Aug 28, 2007)

Phat Bastard said:


> Ah I see, I understand now. Basically you're saying the facts that my cradle charges and/or transmits FM signals are the reasons why the GPS signal is poor. That's certainly a possibility!


This is unlikely. I have never heard of FM transmitters affecting GPS receivers... perhaps charger though... call the manufacturer.

I have had no issues with a Griffin FM iTrip charger... TomTom runs perfect + Skype over 3G or Internet Tuner all running at same time... jailbroken iPhone with backgrounder so I can have multiple apps running. Connected to FM transmitter, charging, and audio over the car stereo.


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## Phat Bastard (Jan 3, 2003)

Thanks for adding to the thread, psycosis and zlinger. Very interesting points. But, again, where are your iPhones located in your cars? Are they located up on the dash or further down? This would help me determine really if location (antenna access to the windows) is the important factor here.


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## psycosis (Mar 29, 2005)

As stated earlier, mine is located in a cup holder at the bottom of the center console, right in front (closer to the stereo) of the shifter.


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## zlinger (Aug 28, 2007)

I have mine mounted on vent and hangs at center of console. It has only partial view of sky, and runs fine even when sitting on seat. The only time it has poor GPS satellite reception is when I drive through tunnels and underground parking lots (as expected).


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## bob99 (Aug 16, 2007)

I had a chance to try the TomTom iPhone app today, and I have to say that I was impressed. It was mounted with a $10 window-mount that kept the phone close to the car windshield, so there were no GPS signal issues. The headphone out was run into the car speaker through the tape deck input, so the spoken instructions came through the car speakers.

When playing iPod music, the TomTom cuts out and says its directions (Turn in 500 metres) and then the music comes back on. Would have been nice if it faded out, or just lowered the music volume.

Multitasking was fine, and it was easy to use in both horizontal and vertical configuration. There's definitely a need for a car adapter for power, as this thing will no doubt suck it back - the screen is fully on for the full duration. 

I was very impressed by how easily it recalculated routes on the fly. No complaints, it just figured it out and revised the directions. 

It didn't understand any of the addresses already in the address book, even though when going into manual mode it seemed to pick up all the data individually.

Overall this is a cool app, still don't think it's worth the $100 though. Unless you absolutely must have all your devices integrated into one, it's probably better to just get a real GPS and leave it in the glove box.


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## Sniper4u (Jun 25, 2008)

Phat Bastard said:


> Ah I see, I understand now. Basically you're saying the facts that my cradle charges and/or transmits FM signals are the reasons why the GPS signal is poor. That's certainly a possibility!


It could be straight interference from the power cord alone. All cars have a noise reducer before their radios but these aren't attached to cigarette lighters.


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## wilecoyote (May 25, 2008)

bob99 said:


> ...
> Overall this is a cool app, still don't think it's worth the $100 though. Unless you absolutely must have all your devices integrated into one, it's probably better to just get a real GPS and leave it in the glove box.


I really do love having all my devices integrated, so I've been looking at both TomTom and Navigon. I've looked at various reviews here and elsewhere and still can't really see a clear winner. So..maybe Navigon is the way to go since it's still at the lower price for a few more days? Are the Navigon folks here still happy?

Thoughts?


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## Phat Bastard (Jan 3, 2003)

Just an update on my situation. I purchased a Griffin Power Seat and I mounted my iPhone on my dash window. The arm is a little shaky when on the road but it does the job--the TomTom app gets GPS reception pretty well now! No need to buy the (probably expensive) TomTom mount accessory. I've posted a couple of pics.

So the moral of the story is placement of your iPhone really matters for GPS reception.

I'm going to replace my Griffin RoadTrip with a iTrip Auto, which will provide both power and FM transmission for playing music.


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## bob99 (Aug 16, 2007)

I looked at that Griffin Power Seat at the Apple Store yesterday but ultimately passed on buying it because of the force required to wedge the iPhone into the holder. Maybe I was just looking at a particularly stiff one, but IMO you had to exert way too much force.

I love the clean look though, it holds the phone with minimal obstruction to the screen. 

I mounted mine horizontally, but I think I might switch to vertical since the horizontal arrangement makes using the rest of the iPhone a pain. It would be great if every other app supported the horizontal mode. 

Does anyone know the deal with the microphone on the TomTom official unit? Right now if I put my iPhone on speakerphone and make a call (with the headphone out plugged into my car's aux in) it just makes an echo and the other person can hear themselves. How does the tomtom unit get around that? I know it has a separate microphone. What should I add for hands-free calling that allows me to hear the other person over my car speakers?


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## ruffdeezy (Mar 17, 2008)

The TomTom holder is supposed to also improve GPS reception to the iPhone


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## Sniper4u (Jun 25, 2008)

bob99 said:


> I looked at that Griffin Power Seat at the Apple Store yesterday but ultimately passed on buying it because of the force required to wedge the iPhone into the holder. Maybe I was just looking at a particularly stiff one, but IMO you had to exert way too much force.
> 
> I love the clean look though, it holds the phone with minimal obstruction to the screen.
> 
> ...


I had the same problem with the echo while talking to people. I did a test conversation and found the maximum volume setting for the car stereo where the other person didn't get the echo any more. That didn't totally solve the problem of being so far away from the mic that I felt I had to shout so I bought the Plantronic 855 bluetooth headset. It's easy to switch audio sources when a call comes in so I still get to have the phone plugged in to the car stereo. Nice headset but I don't want to hijack the thread with too much info.


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## greensuperman32 (Mar 28, 2005)

how much is the tom tom holder? 
also I tip my hat to you brave souls willing to spend so much money on a brand new app


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## Sniper4u (Jun 25, 2008)

Co Pilot is now available in the app store for $34.99.


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## Sniper4u (Jun 25, 2008)

There's also a navigation app called G-Map CANADA which just covers Canadian roads for $19.99. It has voice turn by turn and some other features but some are saying it is currently a beta at best. By what I'm seeing with the other navigation apps they are all beta. This could be a good option if you only want a mapping system for Canada.


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## iheartmac (Jan 5, 2006)

Anyone experiencing their iPhone becoming "too hot" when using as GPS? I've noticed the back of my iPhone becomes really hot when using the homing feature in Google Maps when driving in the car.


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## Phat Bastard (Jan 3, 2003)

iheartmac said:


> Anyone experiencing their iPhone becoming "too hot" when using as GPS? I've noticed the back of my iPhone becomes really hot when using the homing feature in Google Maps when driving in the car.


Yep, mine too. This is because the GPS apps make heavy use of 3G. Try any other application that makes heavy use of 3G and you'll see the same behaviour.


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

why are the GPS apps using the 3G network?

I thought the whole idea was to NOT use wireless data to navigate with these apps?


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## Phat Bastard (Jan 3, 2003)

i-rui said:


> I thought the whole idea was to NOT use wireless data to navigate with these apps?


Why did you think this?

I think it's clear why GPS apps use 3G. They need to get your current position somehow and use the 3G network to make connections with GPS satellites.


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## Garry (Jan 27, 2002)

Phat Bastard said:


> Why did you think this?
> 
> I think it's clear why GPS apps use 3G. They need to get your current position somehow and use the 3G network to make connections with GPS satellites.


 Then explain why my phone has a GPS receiver built in, and my GPS app works fine where there is zero cell reception.. It couldn't have anything to do with the fact the phone has a GPS receiver in it, and gets bearings from the GPS satellites directly...

3G has nothing to do with all in one apps.. google maps yes, apps with self-contained maps.. no


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## psycosis (Mar 29, 2005)

Garry said:


> Then explain why my phone has a GPS receiver built in, and my GPS app works fine where there is zero cell reception.. It couldn't have anything to do with the fact the phone has a GPS receiver in it, and gets bearings from the GPS satellites directly...
> 
> 3G has nothing to do with all in one apps.. google maps yes, apps with self-contained maps.. no


Technically you are both right. The iPhone will use BOTH cell towers and GPS to provide location services. While inside or before GPS satellites are found, the iPhone will use the cell towers to determine your location. You can see this in Google Maps when you it initially gives your positions as a blue dot in the middle of a blue circle. Eventually, if/when it gets a full GPS signal, it turns just to a blue dot.

Since GPS software only needs the full GPS signal, it will just wait to get the full GPS signal and not use the cell tower info.

In other words, the iPhone does NOT require cell towers for location services, but will use them if they are available.


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## Phat Bastard (Jan 3, 2003)

Ok I guess I was wrong, that GPS services don't use the 3G network but can connect to GPS satellites directly. I incorrectly assumed that since apps that use 3G are power-hungry and the iPhone heats up (that's a fact), and that GPS apps also are power-hungry, that meant that the GPS apps were using 3G for their function.

Still, psycosis explained how the iPhone uses wireless data in conjunction with GPS data, at least for Google Maps.

I'm going to try using the TomTom app with 3G turned off and see if it still works. I should get way better battery life and the iPhone shouldn't heat up.


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

psycosis said:


> Technically you are both right. The iPhone will use BOTH cell towers and GPS to provide location services. While inside or before GPS satellites are found, the iPhone will use the cell towers to determine your location. You can see this in Google Maps when you it initially gives your positions as a blue dot in the middle of a blue circle. Eventually, if/when it gets a full GPS signal, it turns just to a blue dot.
> 
> Since GPS software only needs the full GPS signal, it will just wait to get the full GPS signal and not use the cell tower info.
> 
> In other words, the iPhone does NOT require cell towers for location services, but will use them if they are available.


ok, but even still - using cell towers to triangulate a position is different then using the 3G network. the iphone 2g was able to do the same thing (without 3g or a GPS chip)


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## ruffdeezy (Mar 17, 2008)

Phat Bastard said:


> Just an update on my situation. I purchased a Griffin Power Seat and I mounted my iPhone on my dash window. The arm is a little shaky when on the road but it does the job--the TomTom app gets GPS reception pretty well now! No need to buy the (probably expensive) TomTom mount accessory. I've posted a couple of pics.
> 
> So the moral of the story is placement of your iPhone really matters for GPS reception.
> 
> I'm going to replace my Griffin RoadTrip with a iTrip Auto, which will provide both power and FM transmission for playing music.


Got this and Navigon today, very happy here.


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## ruffdeezy (Mar 17, 2008)

Google maps = downloading maps constantly = data required
navigation app = 1.2 gb = data not required

I'm looking forward to using navigon in the states!!


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## wilecoyote (May 25, 2008)

*Very good Navigon vs. TomTom comparison*

I've been looking at both TomTom and Navigon, and I found the link below to be really helpful. And check out the comments in point 17: GPS Signal. He clearly finds a difference between how fast TomTom and Navigon lock in.


iPhoneTunes review: TomTom VS Navigon - All features compared


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## Phat Bastard (Jan 3, 2003)

Thanks for the great link, wilecoyote.

I'm very happy with TomTom now that I've fixed the GPS signal issue, so it doesn't matter much if Navigon is better according to this review.

How about the fact that TomTom is an established GPS company, whereas I had not even heard of Navigon Inc. before reading about the Navigon iPhone app. This could have an effect on future versions of the software, maybe TomTom's app will be upgraded more frequently? I have no idea.


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## wilecoyote (May 25, 2008)

Phat Bastard said:


> Thanks for the great link, wilecoyote.
> 
> I'm very happy with TomTom now that I've fixed the GPS signal issue, so it doesn't matter much if Navigon is better according to this review.
> 
> How about the fact that TomTom is an established GPS company, whereas I had not even heard of Navigon Inc. before reading about the Navigon iPhone app. This could have an effect on future versions of the software, maybe TomTom's app will be upgraded more frequently? I have no idea.


Now that both apps are running on a platform in which software upgrades are much simpler than with dedicated GPS units, we might well see a convergence of features. In a few months the difference between the two could be very small. 

The biggest questions is whether or not there is room for both apps in the long term. If not, you may choose the best app but end up with a betamax! (Yes, I was one of those.)


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## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

> I'm looking forward to using navigon in the states!!


How do you plan on doing that? In my case any time I travel to the US I enable Airplane mode to make sure no data gets requested...of course with Airplane mode active the GPS is turned off as well. Do you just trust that the "roaming = off" feature works well enough you won't get dinged with huge data fee's from the US?


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## wilecoyote (May 25, 2008)

Andrew Pratt said:


> How do you plan on doing that? In my case any time I travel to the US I enable Airplane mode to make sure no data gets requested...of course with Airplane mode active the GPS is turned off as well. Do you just trust that the "roaming = off" feature works well enough you won't get dinged with huge data fee's from the US?


Every time I've travelled to the US, I've relied on having data roaming off, and I've never once been charged a penny for data roaming. So I think both Navigon and TomTom should work fine in the US with no extra data charges.


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## Phat Bastard (Jan 3, 2003)

wilecoyote said:


> Every time I've travelled to the US, I've relied on having data roaming off, and I've never once been charged a penny for data roaming. So I think both Navigon and TomTom should work fine in the US with no extra data charges.


That's good to know! Thanks!


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## Principal (Nov 28, 2004)

Do either one of these show elevation?


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## Snowy (Dec 13, 2008)

Phat Bastard said:


> That's good to know! Thanks!


Should work without data charges?

Does anyone have real life experience with this?

Sorry to sound cynical, but I'd like to hear from someone that has actually used any of the GPS apps in the US.

I was traveling in the US a fair amount this summer and had to turn on my phone a couple of times. The price for roaming and long distance is assinine.

I would hate to have someone take this as gospel and then get dinged for data.

On a second trip to the US, I ended up calling Rogers and getting a plan for $40 (US to Canada long distance), which if I remember correctly was for 70 mins., roaming included. This was just for 30 days duration and not permanently on my monthly iphone bill.

I also used a $20 calling card, which is the way to go for phone calls.

I currently have a Zumo 550 (Garmin) which I have had on my bike for about 4 years now and it is a great GPS. Totally weatherproof.


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## Phat Bastard (Jan 3, 2003)

Snowy said:


> Should work without data charges?
> 
> Does anyone have real life experience with this?
> 
> Sorry to sound cynical, but I'd like to hear from someone that has actually used any of the GPS apps in the US.


Of course it's wise to be skeptical, and we all agree data roaming charges can be brutal. But as we've discussed in this forum, people have had success using these GPS apps with zero cell (and therefore zero cell data) reception. Obviously the GPS apps get their data without GPRS/EDGE/3G.

So these apps shouldn't trigger roaming charges. Next time I drive to the States I will try this out just to verify.


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## wilecoyote (May 25, 2008)

Phat Bastard said:


> Of course it's wise to be skeptical, and we all agree data roaming charges can be brutal. But as we've discussed in this forum, people have had success using these GPS apps with zero cell (and therefore zero cell data) reception. Obviously the GPS apps get their data without GPRS/EDGE/3G.
> 
> So these apps shouldn't trigger roaming charges. Next time I drive to the States I will try this out just to verify.


And let's just say that for whatever reason a GPS app uses data (say to update POIs or something). If you have Data Roaming OFF on the phone, then it should not be allowed to access data! Otherwise isn't that a pretty massive bug in the Data Roaming OFF feature!

I'm not sure why this keeps coming up. Am I missing something or has there been even a single documented case where someone was charged for data usage with Data Roaming OFF? [edited my typo...I meant OFF not ON!]


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## mpuk (May 24, 2005)

I just installed TomTom on my older 16GB iPhone, have it mounted via my Griffin RoadTrip, and couldn't be happier with it. Drove from Toronto to Montreal today and had it on the whole time. Good signal the whole way and the time to destination was pretty much bang on. Two thumbs up here.


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## Phat Bastard (Jan 3, 2003)

mpuk said:


> I just installed TomTom on my older 16GB iPhone, have it mounted via my Griffin RoadTrip, and couldn't be happier with it. Drove from Toronto to Montreal today and had it on the whole time. Good signal the whole way and the time to destination was pretty much bang on. Two thumbs up here.


Awesome to hear this. But I predict that your RoadTrip is mounted higher up on your console than mine was and mine didn't work. Again, it seems that positioning of your iPhone in the car makes a big difference.

My story turned out great since I'm more than happy with my iPhone 3G mounted on a Griffin Window Seat.


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## Kaiu (Sep 3, 2009)

So I actually tried out this app... for fun haha.... drove the wrong directions and stuff....



So far What I noticed is if you are going at speeds under 15km/hr or so... the GPS will lag and skip around... When you first turn it on, it is not accurate either....


However, once you reached speeds at around 20km/hr and up, it was really accurate imo... Going the wrong way, forced it to reroute really quick too....

(I drove from Scarborough to the Airport as I had to drop people off, and drove around in the West End, where I pretty much never been to lol...)

The Spoken Directions were really straightforward, although with music on, it wasn't loud enough, that would be the iPhone speakers fault, I might try attaching some portable speakers and see if that works....


ATM, I like the TOMTOM app, and its GUI isn't too bad....


Will try the NAVIGON app next time I go drive far distances...


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## bob99 (Aug 16, 2007)

I just got back from some time in New York City where I had the chance to use the TomTom app. No complaints at all, and no data charges in the USA. As long as data roaming = off is set on your phone, you won't be charged, and I can confirm that!

One thing I'd like to see is an "on foot" mode for when you're walking around. Since my data was turned off, I couldn't use the Google maps. The TomTom was OK for navigating on foot, but ideally there would be something equivalent to the google maps app, with the maps built into the phone.

Looks like the cradle is going to be released in October, but it's still pretty pricy. Interested to start reading reviews of it.


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## Snowy (Dec 13, 2008)

bob99 said:


> I just got back from some time in New York City where I had the chance to use the TomTom app. No complaints at all, and no data charges in the USA. As long as data roaming = off is set on your phone, you won't be charged, and I can confirm that!
> 
> One thing I'd like to see is an "on foot" mode for when you're walking around. Since my data was turned off, I couldn't use the Google maps. The TomTom was OK for navigating on foot, but ideally there would be something equivalent to the google maps app, with the maps built into the phone.
> 
> Looks like the cradle is going to be released in October, but it's still pretty pricy. Interested to start reading reviews of it.


Thanks for the real life info on data ... 

From my experience on running Garmins software, the maps are much more up to date for the US than Canada.


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## Phat Bastard (Jan 3, 2003)

Thanks for letting us know TomTom indeed doesn't need data access to work. That's great news.

Again, I'm going plug the Griffin Window Seat. TomTom works very well when mounted on the Window Seat, so I see no reason at all to buy the upcoming TomTom mount.


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