# Evidence of MacTel Issue Problem



## Snubnose (Sep 28, 2003)

OK, it is a little anecdotal, I admit...but here it is. My Dad, who has never owned a Mac, finally got sick of viruses and marched off to the Apple Store (he lives in Dallas) to pick up an iBook. Before buying it, though, he asked one of the workers there if there would be any issues surrounding the 2006 release of the Intel chip equipped Macs. The worker shrugged his shoulders and says:

"Um, to be honest, we know absolutely nothing specifically about the new Macs."

Apparently Apple is keeping all this under wraps...even from their own employees! Anyways, this made my Dad a bit nervous that he was splashing dough on a (possibly) soon-to-be obsolete machine. He didn't want to wait until next year though-- so he chickened out and bought a PC laptop.

NOW- I can hear the Apple pyjama-wearers already-- "there won't be any issues, Stevie said so". But this is cold comfort for newbies. Any thoughts on this? Is there publicly reliable data on the new machines that could have convinced my Dad to buy anyways?

Snubnose


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## asylus (Oct 7, 2005)

This seems to be much more an issue of typical Apple quietude than one of hiding issues.

MacTel won't be just a hardware transformation, it's also going to spawn a new OS and new application support requirements, thus driving the entire Apple business strategy. Yep, that will be kept secret.


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## satchmo (May 26, 2005)

No offense, but how does an uninformed low level employee working at an Apple retail store, hint of Intel Mac troubles ahead?

Sounds more like your Dad was simply still uncomfortable going Mac. His loss.


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## Snubnose (Sep 28, 2003)

satchmo said:


> Sounds more like your Dad was simply still uncomfortable going Mac. His loss.


I agree...but I think it is also Apple's loss, wouldn't you say?


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

No Apple employees except those who are currently building the Intel-based Macs know anything about them. Every detail about the new Macs would be plastered from one end to the other on the Internet about them if Apple told their store employees about them, considering many employees are, for one stupid reason or another, incapable of keeping NDA's.


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## tedj (Sep 9, 2004)

Why ought Joe-blow Apple employee know anything more than we about the new releases next year? It's a business decision with who-knows-how-many billions of dollars invested in a single new product line. Do you think Steve should send a personal inter-office memo detailing all the company secrets to the guy working for just over min. wage down at the strip-mall Apple store in Dallas? What kind of a company would do this?! 

I don't even understand what the problem is. No company works that way, whether it be Dell or Tim Hortons. You or I could be that guy, easily enough.


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## ender78 (Jan 23, 2005)

Walk into a Ford Dealership and ask the average salesguy as to the performance charactersitcs at 6300 RPM of the 2012 Civic. You'll learn a great deal. 

Apple's employees that work in retail have no knowledge of future product. While the are "Apple Employees" they are not privy to upcoming product details. Apple is very secretive about its application and hardware development. So secretive in fact that much of the work is compartmentalized, the iPod developers have no idea what is happening on the iMac development.

My next Mac purchase will be a MacTel box, hopefully a Powerbook.


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## mr.steevo (Jul 22, 2005)

Hi,

As far as I can guess, an iBook bought today will last as long as an iBook bought last year or the year before. I don't know how the intels will make a purchase today obsolete in a few months any faster than than usual. Next year when the Intels are released there will be a lot of software that won't run on it natively which is why people are considering buying the best PPC Mac they can afford before the switch to Intel. Those people want to ride through the rough waters of transision. 

Personally, I would never buy a first generation of anything so that means I won't be buying another Mac until two or three years from now when the intels are firmly in place and run software natively.

If your dad is concerned about virus's then tell him about Linux for his new PC! It is a great OS.

s.


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## MacGYVER (Apr 15, 2005)

Ok lets look at this from a common sense point of view.

Intel is not a new company, they have been producing processor chips for quite some years now, so that should be one clue as to how things are going. Think of summer 2006 as "stage 1" for rolling out MacIntel as this is what Steve Jobs had said in his speech, and it will take at least 2 years he said until the MacIntel is widely available to everyone.

The absolute worst possible case scenario would be for Apple and Intel delay the release of the new MacIntel computers. They are not going to release a piece of crap to everyone that doesn't even work. You do realize that the testers and developers actually are using a MacIntel right now since last summer.

If you want a Mac with a PPC processor then you buy a Mac now, if you want a Mac with an Intel chip inside, then wait for the first batch of them sometime next summer 2006 or later.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

You will be able to use your PPC based Mac for years to come I assure you of that. Your dad's loss I guess...


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## MacGYVER (Apr 15, 2005)

Snubnose said:


> I agree...but I think it is also Apple's loss, wouldn't you say?


How is it Apple's loss? Your dad could have easily bought the iBook now and still be using it 2 years from now. Although the iBook runs on a G4 and not a G5 and is less powerful then a Powerbook, it would have still been adequate enough for your dad depending on his uses in computing.

Your dad is now back to fighting with his PC once again, when he had other choices.


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## RISCHead (Jul 20, 2004)

*Much ado about nothing*

Sounds like a very general question was asked:
"Are there going to be any issues with the new Intel Macs?"

General questions don't usually get good answers. Significant digging is required to get to the meat of the concern and specific answers  

Yes, its everyone's loss in this case. However, such losses do happen  

Does this indicate Apple has a poor business strategy? Should they change it?
Firstly, its not our call . Secondly, time will tell. Thirdly, nothing Apple's done so far is out of line with general industry practice in terms of product announcements, other manufacturing business examples notwithstanding.

Should Apple anticipate these kinds of questions from worried potential clientele and train their front-line staff to deal with them more effectively?
A-F..ing ABSOLUTELY

Does this mean we'll actually learn more about what's going to happen?
No chance.

Is it really a concern or an issue? 
No


just my 2c worth.


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## mr.steevo (Jul 22, 2005)

MacGYVER said:


> How is it Apple's loss? Your dad could have easily bought the iBook now and still be using it 2 years from now. Although the iBook runs on a G4 and not a G5 and is less powerful then a Powerbook, it would have still been adequate enough for your dad depending on his uses in computing.
> 
> Your dad is now back to fighting with his PC once again, when he had other choices.



Lost sale.

s.


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

FUD -- Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt

If you are the top of mind product, FUD is what your _competitor_ wants your customer to have when they are thinking about your product. The intention is to have your customer delay or second-guess their purchase.

In this case, dumb-$#!~ Apple employee planted FUD against his own product by introducing a variable that the customer had no way to cope with in their decision-making process -- therefore the customer reverted to what was familiar, and dumb-$#!~ blew the sale.

That's what happens when you hire inexperienced staff. Not so much of a problem if you are a clothing retailer, say, but deadly if it is a durable product with a 2 - 5 year repeat buying cycle.


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## RISCHead (Jul 20, 2004)

CanadaRAM said:


> FUD -- Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt
> 
> If you are the top of mind product, FUD is what your _competitor_ wants your customer to have when they are thinking about your product. The intention is to have your customer delay or second-guess their purchase.
> 
> ...


Well put!


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

I have to agree with most here, an Apple employee at a Apple Store is not going to know anything more than you or I about future products. The knowledge they do have is going to be about the current porducts they have in store. After all how can you discuss something that doesn't even exist yet. I mean these new Intel computers don't come out until somewhere around June of 2006. You'll know about issues, once they are actually out. 

As for buying any current computer, there shouldn't be any issue with that as they'll continue to run MacOS X and the software they have for years.

Maybe you should read this article that's been posted here a few times... http://www.macworld.com/2005/06/features/intelfaq/index.php


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

this whole issue is kind of dumb. the ppc architecture will be supported for years to come. no one has bothered to mention that apple's compiler produces dual binaries that will run on either architecture.

a more reasonable question might be 'will this pc i'm about to buy be able to run long horn when it comes out?' chances are the answer is no.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Some people are just reading *way* to much into one little sentence. The fact of the matter is: Nobody knows a whole lot about the new Intel Macintosh computers... except for those under an NDA.


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## asylus (Oct 7, 2005)

« MannyP Design » said:


> Some people are just reading *way* to much into one little sentence. The fact of the matter is: Nobody knows a whole lot about the new Intel Macintosh computers... except for those under an NDA.


That was the best reply yet. Hear hear.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

Gah, I hate the term "obsolete" and it's connotations towards computers.

People seem to be under the impression when buying a computer that when the next model comes out the one they bought will be magically rendered unable to meet their needs. What a bunch of horse-poo.

If you're constantly looking around at the next model and what it can do, then yeah, you're likely going to miss out on some new features. If, however, you look at your computer and compare it to your needs as a user, it'll likely not be obsolete for a long, long time. In fact, it won't be obsolete until it doesn't meet your needs anymore, which for the average web-surfing-email-checking-but-not-much-else-user is a time frame that can be measured in years.


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

I think that your Dad is pretty ignorant.


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

CanadaRAM said:


> In this case, dumb-$#!~ Apple employee planted FUD against his own product by introducing a variable that the customer had no way to cope with in their decision-making process -- therefore the customer reverted to what was familiar, and dumb-$#!~ blew the sale.


The fact is, we all have access to all of the information the employee needed to answer the customer's questions, and this info was available right after the Intel transition was announced. 

What, when, how. That's what the salesperson should have explained. The customer was not concerned about confidential stuff like what the first model will be, its specs, the processor that will be used. He was interested in the roadmap and how his prospective purchase fit in. Any of you can answer that question. Just not the boob at the store.


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

So, it's not an issue of any MacTel problems (as indicated by the thread title). It's an issue with a poorly trained sales employee.


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## Snubnose (Sep 28, 2003)

gmark2000 said:


> I think that your Dad is pretty ignorant.


...and I think you have a wonderful way with words, my friend! I think your Dad is a stupidhead! Clearly my Dad doesn't know the ins and outs of Macs- that is the POINT-- he is an average computer buyer.

And to all that have said how dumb it is to expect Apple employees to know NDA level stuff- this isn't what I would think. I was talking about at least knowing some key talking points-- even the stuff covered in that Macworld link would have sufficed.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Is it considered dumb for a sales person to not keep track of products that aren't even available for sale, let alone have any sort of information from Apple for a product under development?

Specs change.


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## Mad Mac (Mar 13, 2005)

I really don't see how the sales person could have answered his question in any helpful way. Walk in Futureshop, Best Buy etc and ask if Intel or AMD have any issues with the next gen of CPUs. I'de bet money they wouldn't have a clue.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Or better yet -- if someone asked if there were any issues surrounding the 2006/2007 release of Mac OS X.4 Leopard.


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## mr.steevo (Jul 22, 2005)

Wow,

This is becoming a hornets nest!

I'm outta here!

s.


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## MacME (Mar 15, 2005)

my 2 cents …

it comes down to the father requiring reassurance he is making the "correct" purchase of a product he is unfamiliar with. regardless if the sales person did or did not have the answer to his question regarding the MacTel, he/she should have had enough knowledge to try and inform him of the existing Apple product of interest and focus and "sell" him on why the father should purchase it.

i don't shop that way, but probably neither do most ppl on this forum. however, there are many less informed buyers out there that know nothing more than what sales people tell them. first impressions are important, and a sales person can make or break a purchase.

for you to all to jump on the bandwagon and start calling the father names, or saying it's his loss shows to be a "snotty" response, to say the least.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

Snubnose said:


> And to all that have said how dumb it is to expect Apple employees to know NDA level stuff- this isn't what I would think. I was talking about at least knowing some key talking points-- even the stuff covered in that Macworld link would have sufficed.


And then you have to get into an explanation of what a MacIntel is and what the difference is between a PowerPC-based Mac and a MacIntel and what Rosetta is. Aren't you throwing alot at a poor newb customer? You'll have Dad (or Mom) regretting he ever asked, unless their a geek like us. I guess you could have a pamphlet on it, but most don't even have to know about it, especially new users who never used OS 9. If they're using OS X and OS X apps, they won't notice a difference.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Agreed Kosh. It's really very simple.
all he wants to know is if this 1500 bucks he's laying down on a laptop gonna be good for probably about 3 or so years. People like to use their macs for a few years, past that their usefulness begins to wane, most people are aware of this. Is it going to be as useful when the intel macs debut. (of course it will!)
Too bad the sales guy couldn't answer a simple question and make the damn sale. The iBook would have been a good choice.


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## Gtracs (Oct 24, 2005)

What difference does it make whether or not Mactel laptops will be coming out, or when? How will that make a PPC laptop "obsolete" before time itself does? If you want/need a laptop, buy the best one you can get now. Either way that's not a PC laptop. A PC is worse than just obsolete.

Jeff


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## Gtracs (Oct 24, 2005)

And where can I get my Apple pyjamas?


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## nikster2004 (Oct 25, 2005)

Snubnose said:


> I agree...but I think it is also Apple's loss, wouldn't you say?


You would think that employees are trained to say "No" to a question like "Do you expect trouble with future products?". 

You dad is a good example of how people would be a lot more comfortable buying Macs once they run on Intel though. Because if the scary OS X doesn't work out for you, you can just install Windows on your MacIntel and have a normal (nice even) windows PC. Not that anyone would do that but it would be great as a peace of mind kind of thing.


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## Trevor... (Feb 21, 2003)

I wouldn't anticipate any remarkable problems with the Intel based macs, beyond the typical QC problems often encountered today.

I have been using a developer setup a fair bit lately, and I am really quite impressed with Mac OS X for Intel.

The only real issue I have seen up to this point is that alot of plug-ins and codecs that are highly optimized for PowerPC don't work at all.

I would however fully expect that to be resolved long before any end user lays hands on one of these machines. 

I was really, really concerned about the PowerPC emulation, I had fears of another Classic type environment, (I HATE CLASSIC!!!) but it really is invisible to the end user. It is completely 100% seamless. It is what Classic should have been. 

Even things like games work, with full 3D acceleration. Granted, at present that is limited to the Intel 915 chipset in the box, but none the less, you will be able to play the PowerPC version Return to Castle Wolfenstein, on an Intel machine with full 3D acceleration from your videocard.

The only thing I am really, really worried about is that Apple might do away with using real video hardware in their consumer hardware, Radeon, GeForce ect. in favor of intergrated chipsets, such as the Intel 915 in the developer hardware.


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## BrianD (Oct 11, 2004)

groovetube said:


> Too bad the sales guy couldn't answer a simple question and make the damn sale. The iBook would have been a good choice.


Why is everybody assuming the sales person did not try to make the sale? All we have been told is 'one sentence' of a conversation between two people. 

Everything else is unsupported extrapolation of what happened.

Some people are calling the employee's training into question, Apple's lack of communication for not telling the ground troops the entire battle plan, and a lot of other unsupported claims.

Sheesh!


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

BrianD said:


> Why is everybody assuming the sales person did not try to make the sale? All we have been told is 'one sentence' of a conversation between two people.
> 
> Everything else is unsupported extrapolation of what happened.
> 
> ...


well clearly the guy walked out spooked because the salesguy didn't give him an accurate picture of how a ppc iBook would still be a very worthwhile investment. 
That says it all to me.


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

Snubnose said:


> ...and I think you have a wonderful way with words, my friend! I think your Dad is a stupidhead! Clearly my Dad doesn't know the ins and outs of Macs- that is the POINT-- he is an average computer buyer.
> 
> And to all that have said how dumb it is to expect Apple employees to know NDA level stuff- this isn't what I would think. I was talking about at least knowing some key talking points-- even the stuff covered in that Macworld link would have sufficed.


What does "stupidhead" have to do with your family's ignorance?

I think you are answering your own question in this thread. Namely YOU didn't adequately explain to him why you are a happy Mac user and educate him on YOUR buying decision.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Snubnose said:


> ...and I think you have a wonderful way with words, my friend! I think your Dad is a stupidhead! Clearly my Dad doesn't know the ins and outs of Macs- that is the POINT-- he is an average computer buyer.
> 
> And to all that have said how dumb it is to expect Apple employees to know NDA level stuff- this isn't what I would think. I was talking about at least knowing some key talking points-- even the stuff covered in that Macworld link would have sufficed.


ignore morons who have nothing better to do than post annoying crap like that.
Unfortunately message boards attract some lowlifes it seems.


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## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

I was at BestBuy the other day, and this couple were looking at Macs. The husband said to not bother buying a mac right now "because they're going Windows next year".

LMFAO.


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