# It's Official: Macbook Air sucks



## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

Yeah, I know I'm gonna get flamed, but I don't care. There's already a thread praising this ridiculous product, so I'm dedicating one to why I think it's a lousy product, this time it's substantiated by _tests_  !

Read all about it here:
No spin: Ars reviews the MacBook Air with solid state drive: Page 1

Essentially, poor battery life (can't even make it to 3 hours??), SSD is barely faster than the 4200rpm HDD (which in itself is markedly SLOW).

So why exactly is this product so great? Oh, right... cuz it's THIN .

I get why people would want this machine, but from these tests resulting in such poor battery life and no option to swap with a fresh one, I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would waste their money on this thing.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

I agree. I never thought much of it from the getgo.


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

It's first gen. Give it a couple of revisions. How did you like the first iPod?

I would never buy this machine but I'm hoping some of the design innovation trickles down (up?) to more capable MacBooks and MacBook Pros. I wouldn't mind it if my MBP were lighter and thinner.


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

Yeah, but what's with Apple's overestimate of the battery life? That's nowhere near 5 hours.

To answer your question, I loved the first iPod. Never had one though... way too expensive for me. :lmao:


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## VNJ85 (Feb 24, 2006)

You would think it would have a longer battery life.... after all it's supposed to be portable.. as in not attached to anything for lengths of times.


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

OK, here's your flame:

The product is for people who want a decent, full screen, light and compact laptop. If you want a MBP 17, go and get one

Is it poor value for money? Sure, like comparing the iPod Classic with the iPod touch: different markets baby...


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

I saw the MBA at the Eatons centre and I wasn't thoroughly impressed. All the potential first time maccies were all over it though. It was quite humerous when the people didn't know what an SSD was.


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## vacuvox (Sep 5, 2003)

*Macbook Air, shucks.*

I certainly don't need the MacBook Air either. It doesn't have the performance, storage or i/o I need in a portable. 

That being said... I'm sure there are people who DON'T need the performance or i/o of an MBP and really really really want something light and thin.

Any design has its compromises: price vs power vs weight vs compactness vs screensize vs utility vs colour vs whatever... 

I guess we'll find out if Apple has made the right set of compromises with the design of the MBA to appeal to a certain (not mine and not Kloan's) sector of the market.


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## Pelao (Oct 2, 2003)

If I were to agree with Kloan, then I would not in future think much of the Ars reviews - the reviewer says that he will be using the Air as his main notebook. Oh wait - he didn't say it sucks, he said certain bits are disappointing - but he will still use it.


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

re: Battery Life - A lot of people have had different results than the ~2 Hours that Ars got in their tests:

- MacRumors: Mac Forums - View Single Post - So, 1.8/SSD owners, how's the battery life? (56% left after 2:15)

- MacRumors: Mac Forums - View Single Post - So, 1.8/SSD owners, how's the battery life? (5+ Hours?)

- Engadget: MacBook Air review - Engadget (2:25 while watching a movie, 3:35 light usage)

Also, as Pelao says - the Ars reviewer slams the machine the whole time and then finishes off by saying that he's still going to use it as his primary machine. If you hate it that much, there's *lots* of other laptop choices out there.


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## smellybook (Aug 31, 2006)

*I was hoping for an ultra portable, the air is not small*

it's thin but not small. The battery is a joke, SSD option is way too expensive.
And I need an optical drive.

So I bought an aging powerbook 12" today, it may be old but it's the ultra portable I was hoping that the Air was going to be.


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## phuviano (Sep 14, 2005)

Has anyone on this forum bought a MBA?? or knows someone who bought one??

I know I wouldn't buy one. Too expensive, and it lacks in too many features. It is ultra portable though.


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## smellybook (Aug 31, 2006)

*Iv'e also been checking out the Asus Eee PC, it comes with SSD*

and they start at $299. They also have a touchscreen kit available for it.
I'll definitely pick one up to run Windows XP on the cheap.


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

smellybook said:


> and they start at $299. They also have a touchscreen kit available for it.
> I'll definitely pick one up to run Windows XP on the cheap.


I've got one. Picked up the 4GB Surf on Boxing day for $299.

It's a fantastic little machine. A true ultra portable. 
It's just a shame it can't run OS X very well...


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## cdncableguy (Nov 4, 2007)

kloan said:


> It's just a shame it can't run OS X very well...


They run Linux so maybe soon. I hope anyway. That would be perfect for me. I was looking at one today. Almost bought the little thing. But osX would be great on it. If they are going to be able to fit FAT win XP on it then why not osX?


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## cap10subtext (Oct 13, 2005)

phuviano said:


> Has anyone on this forum bought a MBA?? or knows someone who bought one??
> 
> I know I wouldn't buy one. Too expensive, and it lacks in too many features. It is ultra portable though.


There's a thread on it, and a few threads on other forums. People are buying them and are excited about them.

I'm amazed at how many users complain about the battery life on portable electronics. Maybe I'm just cynical but the batt life on the box is always realistically about 1/3 less in practice. Rule of thumb.

Boy, you know a product is going to be successful when people won't shut up about it, even just to talk about how much they hate it. If something sucks it just quietly goes away.


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

smellybook said:


> it's thin but not small. The battery is a joke, SSD option is way too expensive.
> And I need an optical drive.
> 
> So I bought an aging powerbook 12" today, it may be old but it's the ultra portable I was hoping that the Air was going to be.


PowerBook G4 12": 2.1kg 28x22cm
MacBook Air 13": 1.3kg 32x23cm

So the MBA is a bit longer, has a vastly superior screen and at least 5 times the speed. Battery seems to be a red herring. Hard drive options are better on PB. RAM is limited to 1.25 Gig on the PB.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

I bought one (1.6GHZ) and am playing with it right now. I took it to a local coffee shop and virtually every person asked me about it and was BLOWN AWAY at how small, tiny and portable it is. We started to joke that my iphone was heavier (literally, with my hard shell case, they're not that different in weight). 

I have a MBP and a MacBook, along with the new Air, so I am the perfect candidate for this machine. I travel a lot and HATE carrying my MBP (my main machine) around with me through airports, hotels and beaches. Hate it! I also only need it for the usual business stuff. No video editing, PS work or anything heavy. 

I CANNOT PROPERLY DESCRIBE HOW SMALL AND PORTABLE THIS THING IS. (sorry for the shouting  My feeling is that if this machine operates near the level of my MBP as far as everyday use is concerned, I'm keeping it--just because the thing is the size that makes my life better. Simple. 

First thing I will do is test battery life. My battery on my MBP is terrible--maybe an hour when I'm doing what I do: surfing, emailing, watching videos and listening to music. If the Air gets 2-3 hours, that works for me. I never believe any companies b.s. EPA-like numbers anyway. 

I'll keep you posted on my progress if you're interested. In the meantime, if someone wants to buy my Macbook, it's listed here and I'd be inclined to knock it down to $1100 if anyone wants one. I've had lots of people interested at a grand, so don't bother lowballing 

http://www.ehmac.ca/vbclassified.php?do=ad&id=180

Anyway, this isn't the everything machine, obviously. But it just might suit people like me and students who want something simple: the emailing, surfing, utube. 

:baby:


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## Isight (Oct 20, 2007)

12 inch powerbook is a way better. Battery life optical drive full sized HD just over 4.5 pounds. Apple should have built an intel version of the 12 inch powerbook, they could have slimed it down a bit. Strange.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

The MBA is attracting attention and bringing people into the Apple Stores. It's a win-win. Personally, I've always disliked the 12" Powerbook due to its smaller keyboard. It destroys my already feeble typing ability and that compromise is much bigger than having a sealed battery or soldered memory. The MBA is in a different league. I do wish it wasn't so much form over function (was 3mm extra width really too much to allow a doubling of HD capacity.....?) and I don't like the wide screen bezel - the machine is about 20 mm too wide. However, it is sexy and cool and it is filling a (albeit small) niche.

The SSD performance is also surprising. I guess this storage tech is currently overrated.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

smellybook said:


> it's thin but not small. The battery is a joke,


How do you figure the battery is a "joke"?

All the reviews I have read thus far with the exception of the ARS review confirm that battery life is 5 hours or very close to it.

I would think if the battery life becomes less than half of what is advertised, you are entitled to a new battery under warranty. Isn't that what applies to the other Mac portables?

BTW - i just watched a video where a battery was replaced. Remove 10 screws to take the bottom cover off, another nine that holds the battery, unplug the old battery, plug in the new one, put screws back. Couldn't be much simpler - a ten minute job, if that.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Man the iPod Touch sucks because it's too expensive with not much storage room and it's just way too advanced for modern times. Don't get it!!!


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## smellybook (Aug 31, 2006)

*I was looking forward to it for long and was just very dissapointed*

with everything about it. There is nothing I like about it at all.

It's the first Apple product that I don't like.


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## crawford (Oct 8, 2005)

imachungry said:


> I bought one (1.6GHZ) and am playing with it right now. I took it to a local coffee shop and virtually every person asked me about it and was BLOWN AWAY at how small, tiny and portable it is. We started to joke that my iphone was heavier (literally, with my hard shell case, they're not that different in weight).


This has been my experience as well. I will run a battery test this weekend, but so far in real world usage, I have found it to be no worse than my old MacBook. 

I really don't understand how so many people get their panties in a bunch over a product like this. If you don't like it, then fine. But *for me*, the power / features / portability / price tradeoff was acceptable, given that this machine will see the majority of its use on the road (as I am right now) as a backup to my main workhorse at the office.


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## Derrick (Dec 22, 2004)

Please ... get over it !!!!

I am really sorry that SJ did not personally call you in the design of the MBA to get your personal wish list of features ... 

It either fits your needs or it does not ... and no one is forcing you to buy it whatever your opinion. To simply trash the product because it does not happen to meet your own personal needs is like something a 2 year old does ... throwing a temper tantrum.


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## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

*Ssd*

I think the Ars article was reviewing whether or not the SSD option was worthwhile. I didn't really see any conclusion that the MBA was not worth it's money rather the SSD option wasn't worth $1300.. 

I'm also gleaning that he ran his machine to the max for 2 hours. Ya so no surprise there he didn't get max battery life. I'm sure Quartz Extreme, Core Image were pumping the video chipset, the cpu didn't get to speedstep, and his virtual memory & swap were going to town. It's the same deal with PC laptops, especially with Aero glass and Vista.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

So far battery life is far superior to my MacBook Pro. Almost 3 hours so far. Whoot whoot. 

I LOVE THIS THING. You have no idea how small and great this thing is. I'm happy.


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## tedj (Sep 9, 2004)

Derrick said:


> Please ... get over it !!!!
> 
> I am really sorry that SJ did not personally call you in the design of the MBA to get your personal wish list of features ...
> 
> It either fits your needs or it does not ... and no one is forcing you to buy it whatever your opinion. To simply trash the product because it does not happen to meet your own personal needs is like something a 2 year old does ... throwing a temper tantrum.


Oh please. If a paying member of the Apple-fan-club wants to trash an (even more) overpriced shiny toy, he sureashell can. Fact is, most expected that the MBA would be the PB12"+thin. Or smaller. I'll tell you what a two year old does: he buys the MBA.

Although I haven't, you make me want to complain. I've spent WAY too much money on nice shiny Apple toys over the years not to have bought that right. Complain on, fellows!


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## Derrick (Dec 22, 2004)

tedj said:


> Oh please. If a paying member of the Apple-fan-club wants to trash an (even more) overpriced shiny toy, he sureashell can. Fact is, most expected that the MBA would be the PB12"+thin. Or smaller. I'll tell you what a two year old does: he buys the MBA.
> 
> Although I haven't, you make me want to complain. I've spent WAY too much money on nice shiny Apple toys over the years not to have bought that right. Complain on, fellows!


Believe me, I am a paying member as well ... as well as an investor.

The MBA is not for everyone ... I will be the first to admit that ... just because it is not right for you does not mean it is not right for someone else.


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## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

No buyer's remorse here. Happy with my Santa Rosa MBP


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## zlinger (Aug 28, 2007)

No complaints here with my Air. The electrons are bouncing around quite nicely right now inside the cpu and solid state drive. Now my iPhone has a new friend to sync with while on the road. I will never go back to carrying around a heavy chunk of metal or plastic.


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

zlinger said:


> No complaints here with my Air. The electrons are bouncing around quite nicely right now inside the cpu and solid state drive. Now my iPhone has a new friend to sync with while on the road. I will never go back to carrying around a heavy chunk of metal or plastic.


are you getting anywhere near the 5 hour mark?


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## zlinger (Aug 28, 2007)

kloan said:


> are you getting anywhere near the 5 hour mark?


I will have to do some proper testing this week, but I can say that 5 hrs is probably pushing the specs. It could be possible while idle, reading documents, blogging, etc.

Perhaps the battery needs to be calibrated? What I can say is that even if it is 4 hrs +/- 30 min. it is impressive given its size, weight, performance. A battery that runs for 4 hrs is not a deal breaker for me.

As I type right now, the fan is so silent too that you would need to hold it up to your ear to hear it. The bottom of the case is cool with barely any heat. It is lighter than a book, so a pleasure to use while chilled out on the couch.

With my previous MBP, I recall that I could only get around 3 hrs of battery time with it, all while nearly burning the skin off my legs a few times (Rev A MBP). I bet that battery technology will improve, and perhaps software updates for system efficiency.


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

Batteries are unpredictable things. After 200 cycles my MBP battery is only 50% healthy and I get 1-1.5 hrs. I guess nobody knows how much life this thing will have in 6 months.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

I note with interest that the MBA hater has (OF COURSE) not tested one or held one, etc.

The comments from the actual MBA *owners* tell the story. The FACT of the matter is that the MBA is a fine machine for its target market. If you're not in the target market, WHY DO YOU CARE. Methinks thou doth protest too much, monsieur minimum-wage ...


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

chas_m said:


> I note with interest that the MBA hater has (OF COURSE) not tested one or held one, etc.
> 
> The comments from the actual MBA *owners* tell the story. The FACT of the matter is that the MBA is a fine machine for its target market. If you're not in the target market, WHY DO YOU CARE. Methinks thou doth protest too much, monsieur minimum-wage ...


Most MacBook Air "haters" (what IS it with you and the word hate?) like to rely on independant second-party reviews that are not clouded in the gee-wow-new-toy fervor. That does not mean a lot of the MacBook Air (gushers?) have been actual users either.

Get over it or deal with it. Whatever. We "haters" are perfectly allowed to voice our opinion on all matters. STOP BEING THOUGHT POLICE.

I, for one, do not make minimum wage--not that much wages dictate the type of product I choose to buy, as I make pretty good money at what I do. However, we so-called "haters" have not lowered ourselves and resorted calling names to those who are contrary to our opinions. 

Bravo. :lmao:

There are a lot of Apple products that aren't meant for me... but that doesn't mean I also hate _them_. Regardless of whatever perceived market you believe the MBA is supposedly for, it is of the opinion of those with critical eyes and minds that it is far too expensive for the lackluster performance and abilities that one would expect for such a price.


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## smellybook (Aug 31, 2006)

chas_m said:


> I note with interest that the MBA hater has (OF COURSE) not tested one or held one, etc.
> 
> The comments from the actual MBA *owners* tell the story. The FACT of the matter is that the MBA is a fine machine for its target market. If you're not in the target market, WHY DO YOU CARE. Methinks thou doth protest too much, monsieur minimum-wage ...


I was so excited to buy one that I was calling the Apple store daily asking if they were on display yet; as soon as they were, I was there waiting eagerly outside the doors browsing the internet on my shiny iphone.

I played with it and held it in my hands for at least 20 minutes until I decided that it is all wrong for me. 


And I don't make minimum wage; if I did I probably couldn't afford all my Apple gear...


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

For what it's worth, I got 3 hours and 15 minutes off my first charge. Heavy youtube mixed with surfing and downloading and some idle time mixed in. 

I'm happy with that.  

I love this overpriced, inadequatedly tricked out Air so far. Many of you should save your opinions until you actually touch and feel one of these. It's very seductive.


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## Pelao (Oct 2, 2003)

> There are a lot of Apple products that aren't meant for me... but that doesn't mean I also hate them. Regardless of whatever perceived market you believe the MBA is supposedly for, it is of the opinion of those with critical eyes and minds that it is far too expensive for the lackluster performance and abilities that one would expect for such a price.


Manny,
I understand your apparent irritation with the language and attitude of some posters. But I have to say that it seems some with critical eyes do like the MBA for what it is - I don't think you can claim that all with such eyes agree with your summation of the MBA.

What I find interesting though (and I think we we're in agreement here) is that it's kind of odd when a company produces a product that is not quite for some some people - and those people 'hate' it. Or, when those that disagree with the product lovers are described as 'haters'. What a mean and obnoxious word.

It does reveal some of the power of the Apple brand. Some Apple users seem to take it personally when they feel they cannot boast about a product, because they simply cannot identify with it.

For me the MBA is just about perfect - except the price. It matches my mode of use of my PB 12" in all it's abilities (and is considerably more powerful) and has a much nicer screen. I have a desktop for power stuff. My PB has an SD, more ports etc., but I never use the optical drive, can live without FW (on my notebook, but not my desktop) and never use more than one USB port. I will wait to see how the battery pans out, but it seems around 3 hours is reasonably common - more than good enough for me. A small niche certainly, but one I am glad Apple chooses to serve, because the product closely matches my real world use. But, because of the price issue, a MB looks like better value, though I sure would like that portability.

I am sure the price will come down over time. In the meantime my PB will soldier on.


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## absolutetotalgeek (Sep 18, 2005)

Never mind how useless the MBA is, and that it's intended market is limpwristed sissies with apparently absolutely no upper body strength and no real use for a laptop in any productive sense. 

Never mind that, will someone please please fire the fu%$in' ad agency Apple is using! I'm sooooooo sick of those sappy songs they are using! I hate those songs, hate them!! beejacon I'd like to take that ultra thin whatever the hell it is and throw it like a 'ninja star' at whoever the creative director is. Hate that bloody song!! Shut up shut up shut up!! :lmao: :lmao: Gawd!!!


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## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

absolutetotalgeek said:


> Never mind how useless the MBA is, and that it's intended market is limpwristed sissies with apparently absolutely no upper body strength and no real use for a laptop in any productive sense.
> 
> Never mind that, will someone please please fire the fu%$in' ad agency Apple is using! I'm sooooooo sick of those sappy songs they are using! I hate those songs, hate them!! beejacon I'd like to take that ultra thin whatever the hell it is and throw it like a 'ninja star' at whoever the creative director is. Hate that bloody song!! Shut up shut up shut up!! :lmao: :lmao: Gawd!!!



Careful, Clem. Your cowboy boots are showin'


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## draz (Jun 13, 2005)

Has a target market device it suits perfectly. For those who travel or want a highly portable machine for what i would call standard use (browsing, downloading, email, and photos) this is a great little machine. But I wold call this a periferal machine, or a secondary mobile machine. I assume this is aimed at those who have a powerful desktop (or full featured laptop) in addition to the MBA. 

I recently bought one for the wife as she values portability, light weight and is not what i would qualify as a power user. (web, photos, downloading, email and writing) For her needs there is no better machine. But i also have a powerful desktop for heavy needs and a 17" powerbook that i use for work and consider a portable desktop replacement. 

But for what it was designed for (ultra portable) this is a perfect machine. And in terms of price, if cost were truly an issue then why on earth are you even looking at first gen, niche apple products? I recall spending thousands of dollars on the G3 Powerbook wall street then less on its replacement 15" titanium powerbook yet i never complained...because you pay for cutting edge technology and great design. 


draz


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

Isight said:


> Apple should have built an intel version of the 12 inch powerbook, they could have slimed it down a bit. Strange.


Isn't this where the MacBook fits?


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

MannyP Design said:


> There are a lot of Apple products that aren't meant for me... but that doesn't mean I also hate _them_. Regardless of whatever perceived market you believe the MBA is supposedly for, it is of the opinion of those with critical eyes and minds that it is far too expensive for the lackluster performance and abilities that one would expect for such a price.


No offense intended, but this reminds me of a frequent anti-Apple line: why buy a MacBook for $1400 (or whatever) when I can get an equally powerful Dell/Toshiba/HP for $900?

Very often, the person asking the question forgot to account for the Dell/Toshiba/whatever weighing a lot more than the comparably specced MacBook.

IMHO you're seriously underestimating the cost to Apple and price to the consumer of shaving a couple of pounds off a laptop w/ full-size keyboard and a decently sized screen. And it seems obvious enough that weight was a very high priority, while they were willing to make all kinds of compromises in other areas.

So weight doesn't matter that much to you? Fine. It doesn't matter very much to me, either. But I do wonder why people for whom it doesn't matter go out of their way to criticize this product. You and anyone else are free to do so, of course. I just find the behaviour kind of odd. 

Are you trying to warn people off a purchase you'll believe they'll regret? Trying to paint buyers as suckers? Expressing disappointment that it isn't the subnotebook you were hoping for? ...?


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## zlinger (Aug 28, 2007)

The Mac community should be commending Apple for their engineering achievements. As a new owner of a new MBA, I more than pleased with my purchase. I finally have a computer perfectly suited for MY needs.

If you are complaining about features, design, performance, interoperability, etc. and don't like the latest innovation from Apple.. then it is probably not for you. Go or stay with your MB, MBP, or non-Apple product such as Dell.

If you are arguing on price points... yes, sure it is a bit overpriced. But so are many things such as hockey tickets, all-inclusive holidays, or fancy restaurants. And people are more than willing to pay for these items!! 

I do not have an issue paying for design, portability, and convenience -- and especially for something that I will use every day for at least the next 3 years. Thank you Apple.


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## draz (Jun 13, 2005)

omg..amazing...i found a fully functional machine that has all the usb, hd, optical drives and power i will ever need and is only 8lbs and costs 799.....its a dell. All you apple guys are crazy for spending extra money on those silly apple laptops....


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## absolutetotalgeek (Sep 18, 2005)

> Careful, Clem. Your cowboy boots are showin'


 ???

Hmmm..... I'm 'bout 's far way from a cowboy as it gets.  I do however work with Thoroughbreds, not quite the same as a Quarter Horse, not at all. 

Nevermind I just realized my avatar has my boots...hahahaha....:lmao: :lmao:


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## Principal (Nov 28, 2004)

*Boots*



absolutetotalgeek said:


> ???
> 
> Hmmm..... I'm 'bout 's far way from a cowboy as it gets.  I do however work with Thoroughbreds, not quite the same as a Quarter Horse, not at all.
> 
> Nevermind I just realized my avatar has my boots...hahahaha....:lmao: :lmao:


:lmao: :lmao: maybe he was trying to say ******* :lmao: :lmao: 
I'm not quite sure what that line means but I like it and will probably start using it (in fun of course)


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## Pelao (Oct 2, 2003)

*Some comprehensive MBA battery tests*

Interesting results

AnandTech: The Truth about MacBook Air Battery Life


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

Considering that the MBA is 3 lbs; while a more capable MBP is a "hefty" 5 1/2 lbs... I think it is really funny that people advocate the MBA based on the fact that it is so much lighter than the bohemoth MBP. You'd think that the prognosticators have not used a "laptop" since the days of the Osborne!

A number of people I know were interested in the MBA. But this changed to disinterest when they were shocked at the $3100 price tag, and the fact that they would not be able to watch movies on it. Sure, it is thin, but it is still a rich man's toy for people that need to spend $3100 to do almost all of those things that one can do on a Clamshell...


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

.


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## kgeorge78 (Sep 8, 2003)

I agree - it sucks.

I would have ordered one otherwise. I sold my black macbook anticipating a new notebook a few days before the release. What a mistake that was.

It's slow, delicate and expensive.
Pluses - It looks cool, great size, .... I guess the minus parts make the pluses a reality.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

iMatt said:


> No offense intended, but this reminds me of a frequent anti-Apple line: why buy a MacBook for $1400 (or whatever) when I can get an equally powerful Dell/Toshiba/HP for $900?


That's not what I've said--at all.

It is not about the price, although it _is_ part of the overall issue when you factor the weaker WiFi reception, the unusuable WiFi Migration Assistant, and under-performing SSD that appears to have little benefit. Compound that with weaker performance and reduced capablities (by it's very design) I fail to see why people consider this a good product.



> Very often, the person asking the question forgot to account for the Dell/Toshiba/whatever weighing a lot more than the comparably specced MacBook.


Who cares about Dell? We're talking about Apple. The MBA only weighs about 2 lbs. less than the MacBook/Pro and the costs is substantially more than them when you break down the features per model.

If you get the Superdrive peripheral and/or SDD you lose the benefit of a lighter (more portable) device and a reduced footprint and a substantially higher price tag. And yet, somehow, it's a great device.



> IMHO you're seriously underestimating the cost to Apple and price to the consumer of shaving a couple of pounds off a laptop w/ full-size keyboard and a decently sized screen. And it seems obvious enough that weight was a very high priority, while they were willing to make all kinds of compromises in other areas.


Not really. No. The product has flaws--glaring flaws. I expect a considerable amount of quality from a high-ticket item. Glowing keys just doesn't cut it.



> So weight doesn't matter that much to you? Fine. It doesn't matter very much to me, either. But I do wonder why people for whom it doesn't matter go out of their way to criticize this product. You and anyone else are free to do so, of course. I just find the behaviour kind of odd.


Weight is an important factor with portables. So is battery life. As is WiFi--this particular portable leans considerably on the capabilities of wireless technology... technology that doesn't meet the typical standards set by Apple. If you can't migrate your user folder over WiFi and didn't buy the Ethernet adapter you are S.O.L.. More money to be wasted. There are too many potential hazards with this product that relies heavily on having Wireless (that is problematic) for access or peripherals that may or may not be available.



> Are you trying to warn people off a purchase you'll believe they'll regret? Trying to paint buyers as suckers? Expressing disappointment that it isn't the subnotebook you were hoping for? ...?


I'm providing a counter point of view to people like Chas_m who are not only wetting themselves over a product, but are painting an unrealistic picture, not to mention brushing off real problems that USERS have conveyed over the web.

You seem to think that I'm some sort of WinZealot trolling the Mac forums spoiling for a fight or something. And quite frankly, I'm not surprised. I realize this is a Mac forum, but that does not mean we cannot constructively criticize Apple or it's products.


----------



## Pelao (Oct 2, 2003)

> It's slow, delicate and expensive.


A relative term, at best. it's slower than the other Mac portables, but for it's likely uses it seems plenty fast, and is certainly faster than the 12" PB. 

Again, it's clearly not for you, but that doesn't make it a bad product.



> The product has flaws--glaring flaws. I expect a considerable amount of quality from a high-ticket item


I was not aware of any published flaws. There is some disagreement over battery life - but flaws? Hmmm.


----------



## minnes (Aug 15, 2001)

But Manny the keyboard GLOWS!
It Glows!
MMM glowy!
The MBA looks cool but thats the end of it for me.
Seriously, I was hoping for a replacement for my old iBook 1ghz and the MBA does less and costs more, and it is bigger than I want as well.

No firewire, built in ethernet, optical drive, mediocre battery, medicore cpu, small HD etc etc
and I would still almost be good with most of this if the device was small like say a 9 inch screen that was really small and could be taken anywhere like a big PDA
The iPod Touch does much of what the MBA does for a fraction of the price.

Oh and our criticism serves a valubale public service to the potential customers who may be unaware of the missing features that they want or need and serves as a memo to Apple that they missed out on boatloads of customers with this one.

What you have with the MBA is the world's most expensive peripheral.


----------



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

HowEver said:


> Perhaps you need new friends who understand they can watch movies on a MacBook Air.


Not without spending another $99 on an external optical drive if you watch movies on DVD.


----------



## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

MannyP Design said:


> Who cares about Dell? We're talking about Apple. The MBA only weighs about 2 lbs. less than the MacBook/Pro and the costs is substantially more than them when you break down the features per model.


When you say it's "only" 2 lbs less, that's where you lose me. *That's almost the whole point.* Shaving off almost half the weight is a hugely expensive proposition, both in money and in terms of feature compromises. No doubt there's an "early adopter tax" in the price, but it's still very costly to make a laptop that light. It that's not a sufficient benefit for you, so be it. 

Everybody knows this is not the be-all, end-all, perfect-for-every-purpose computer. What some people seem reluctant to accept is that, flaws and all, it's still a perfectly good computer for a lot of uses and users. Many will stay away because of the price, but just watch what happens when the early-adopter phase is over.



> I'm providing a counter point of view to people like Chas_m who are not only wetting themselves over a product, but are painting an unrealistic picture, not to mention brushing off real problems that USERS have conveyed over the web.


You do make plenty of fair criticisms, but what you don't seem to be acknowledging is that even with all the flaws and compromises, it offers a couple of key benefits that just happen to be paramount (thus extremely valuable) to some users. Nobody should rush to buy one because it's a pretty shiny gadget, but nor should those who do buy one (or see its virtues) be dismissed as blind fanboys who lap up anything Jobs throws at them.



> You seem to think that I'm some sort of WinZealot trolling the Mac forums spoiling for a fight or something. And quite frankly, I'm not surprised. I realize this is a Mac forum, but that does not mean we cannot constructively criticize Apple or it's products.


No, I know quite well that you're not a WinZealot. And I do think constructive criticism is a good thing. However, some of the criticism of this product (not just yours) seems to persistently avoid its virtues, implying (and sometimes saying explicitly) that those who buy one and/or see the virtues are not thinking critically, or are not "real" computer users, and other dismissive stuff. I think people deserve a little more credit. 

Again, the point of bringing Dell et al into it was to make an analogy: by only comparing features and specs and largely ignoring the weight issue, you do something similar to what often comes from the PC side in Mac vs. PC debates: downplay design and weight and the benefits they provide (which sometimes come at a hefty price).

Another analogy: remember when the iPod first launched? Naysayers were everywhere: a Nomad had 4x the space, this feature, that feature, cost about the same, etc. A lot of those people stubbornly refused to believe that it mattered that an iPod would fit in your pocket but a Nomad wouldn't. Same thing's going on here, IMHO.


----------



## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

Lars said:


> Not without spending another $99 on an external optical drive if you watch movies on DVD.


And then it isn't portable, because the external drive would need power. So with the extra $99, it makes for a $3200 (plus taxes) price tag - which is the price of 2 MBPs, 3 MBs, 5 iTouches, or 16 used iBooks... Again, looks cool, but is not practical for most people, except as a toy for the rich who want the latest and greatest. Well, perhaps not greatest since the processor is rather weak...


----------



## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

EvanPitts said:


> And then it isn't portable, because the external drive would need power. So with the extra $99, it makes for a $3200 (plus taxes) price tag - which is the price of 2 MBPs, 3 MBs, 5 iTouches, or 16 used iBooks... Again, looks cool, but is not practical for most people, except as a toy for the rich who want the latest and greatest. Well, perhaps not greatest since the processor is rather weak...


The portable Superdrive draws power via the USB cord from the MacBook Air and does not need additional power.


----------



## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

minnes said:


> Oh and our criticism serves a valubale public service to the potential customers who may be unaware of the missing features that they want or need ...


Anybody who drops two or three grand on anything, not just a computer, without first confirming that it can do what they need, is not going to get a lot of sympathy. 

Anyway, nothing wrong with constructive criticism and consumer awareness. It's just irritating when it crosses over into "not right for me, therefore sucks, therefore not right for anybody, therefore Apple screwed up." Uh, maybe they've identified and are filling a niche that doesn't happen to include you? 

I predict that most people who buy these things with their eyes open will turn out to be very happy with their purchase.


----------



## Pat McCrotch (Jun 19, 2006)

EvanPitts said:


> And then it isn't portable, because the external drive would need power. So with the extra $99, it makes for a $3200 (plus taxes) price tag - which is the price of 2 MBPs, 3 MBs, 5 iTouches, or 16 used iBooks... Again, looks cool, but is not practical for most people, except as a toy for the rich who want the latest and greatest. Well, perhaps not greatest since the processor is rather weak...


2 MBPs for 3200! Where'd you find that deal? I still see a refurbished entry level 15" MBP at nearly 2000$ on apple.ca .

I seem to remember hearing on the Air Canada safety message before a flight that laptops are allowed except during takeoff and landing but that _no peripherals such as printers or external HDs can be used_. When thinking of an ultraportable computer, the first thing that comes to my mind is air travel. So you are a rockstar or a pitcher for the yankees and you need a computer that you can take with you on the plane which you take 3-4 times a week. No movies for you on air canada! Sorry buddy, no peripherals means no DVD, technically. I'll be sitting accross from you watching a movie on my Macbook.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

Pelao said:


> Interesting results
> 
> AnandTech: The Truth about MacBook Air Battery Life


I find that first test a bit strange.

First the reviewer admits that he spends an average of 36 seconds on a webpage but then uses almost half of that for his test (which would reduce battery life I think) and then on top of that he plays iTunes in the background.
Don't know how many people do that when surfing the net - I' sure there are many, but I'm not one of them.
I wish they had run the tests using "36 second " web browsing and no music which would be closer to what I do if I just look on the web. That would probably get you pretty close to 5 hours on the battery.


----------



## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

Frankly, I don't care if people like it, hate it, love it, lick it (apparently one news announcer licked it!)... to each their own. Not every Apple product is for everybody. There are people that hate the Mac Pro, hate the iMac, hate... ummm... the AppleTV... have fun hatin'. To me, I'm only interested in it to see how much it sells, it's not for me, I'd probably buy a new Macbook Pro. But I don't hate it.

To me, the Macbook Air is just another Powerbook Duo... I can remember how many people said they hated those too...


----------



## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

Pat McCrotch said:


> No movies for you on air canada! Sorry buddy, no peripherals means no DVD, technically. I'll be sitting accross from you watching a movie on my Macbook.


I don't get this "no movies" with the MBA.
Doesn't it make more sense to load the movies you want to watch on your hard drive rather than carry DVDs with you?
A typical movie takes 700 to 800 MB, so you could easily load more on the hard drive than a battery charge will handle.
As an alternative, you can also load them on a Flashdrive - I think the "movie issue" is a non-issue.

As an aside, I rather keep my DVDs safely at home rather than cart them around and get them scratched.


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## snowmen (Jan 20, 2006)

krs said:


> I don't get this "no movies" with the MBA.
> Doesn't it make more sense to load the movies you want to watch on your hard drive rather than carry DVDs with you?
> A typical movie takes 700 to 800 MB, so you could easily load more on the hard drive than a battery charge will handle.
> As an alternative, you can also load them on a Flashdrive - I think the "movie issue" is a non-issue.
> ...


Rip it?
By law do we even allow to do that?
Plus, a typical movie if using virtual drive, is 4GB, not 700~800MB.

For those who are happy with the battery life on such a small device and think it's amazing long...
Maybe you guys missed out Toshiba/Panasonic... ... etc...
They can last twice longer and weight just 2/3 of MBA. Plus, it has optical drive and RJ45.

Yes, for sure MBA looks better, alone with it can install OS X legally... But the benefit ends. I normally take business class in flight, but when I see the seats in economic class, I even wonder if the 13" laptop can fit in that space using it "properly" i.e. putting the laptop on the table and open the screen up facing right at your face without you moving a bit uncomfortable, while the people at the front lay down his seats...

By all mean, if you think the machine is good for you, go get an MBA. It's just not for me. I'm not MBA hater, it's just out of my expectation and I was a bit disappointed... And everybody has the right to speak on what they think. Here is not China.


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## Principal (Nov 28, 2004)

*My Opinion ?*

Anybody wana hear my opinion on the MBA?
c'mon make me feel wanted!


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

Kosh said:


> To me, the Macbook Air is just another Powerbook Duo... I can remember how many people said they hated those too...


And lots of people loved them. You are correct the MBA is very reminiscent of the Duo in philosophy, also the old original PB100. I loved those machines for their size and the fact that I wasn't lugging stuff I didn't need.


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

snowmen said:


> ........ while the people at the front lay down his seats...


Here is an easy cure for those creeps in front of you on a plane who insist on laying their seat back under your chin. I sneeze and cough over them! They generally sit right up and stay that way for the duration...


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## Atroz (Aug 7, 2005)

Principal said:


> Anybody wana hear my opinion on the MBA?
> c'mon make me feel wanted!


What? You don't need to be asked. This is the Internet. Just blurt it right out. The whole world wants to know.


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## Principal (Nov 28, 2004)

*My thoughts*



Atroz said:


> What? You don't need to be asked. This is the Internet. Just blurt it right out. The whole world wants to know.


OK here goes - I've been hearing rumors of this kind of machine for 2 +/- years now so when it finally shows up... anticlimactic! 
My idea's of what an ultra portable should be are 1-light weight 21/2 lbs +/-. 2- small footprint ie 11.5" to 12" screen. 3-current low-end processor.
I don't really mind if the thing is close to 1" thick all around and I don't mind a battery life of 3 (real) hours, and I can put up with a tighter keyboard pitch.
My laptop syncs with my office every day, so all I need is my data at hand... no number crunching, no photo or video work. Now some people would say, buy a used 12" powerbook, well I have a weakness, I like the latest technology :love2: 
I'm fortunate enough (at this point in time) to not have to worry about the price so I will be getting the new MBA and in a few years maybe my dream machine will come to life out of Cupertino.
What's with that 1" bezel around the screen anyway, I saw a teardown and it looked like a lot of air and an antennae in that space.


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

All great arguments... I love it. 

Anyone wonder why they didn't put a _useful_ sized hard drive in there? They're up to *160GB* in the iPod. It's the same physical size HDD, isn't it??

Was it just to make the 64GB SSD look more appealing? Could they really be that r******d?


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

Pat McCrotch said:


> 2 MBPs for 3200! Where'd you find that deal? I still see a refurbished entry level 15" MBP at nearly 2000$ on apple.ca .


I thought they were around $1700, without BTO options, but I may have been looking at US pricing some time ago.



> No movies for you on air canada! Sorry buddy, no peripherals means no DVD, technically. I'll be sitting accross from you watching a movie on my Macbook.


Air Canada is always raining on someone's parade!


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

krs said:


> I don't get this "no movies" with the MBA. Doesn't it make more sense to load the movies you want to watch on your hard drive rather than carry DVDs with you? A typical movie takes 700 to 800 MB, so you could easily load more on the hard drive than a battery charge will handle.
> As an alternative, you can also load them on a Flashdrive - I think the "movie issue" is a non-issue.


No optical drive = no DVD watching. They have the wireless one, but it is of little use when Air Canada will not allow you to have a peripheral on their planes. You could load DVDs onto the drive, perhaps it would even be considered "fair use", but an MBA user will not be able to do such a thing until the wireless Superdrive is something that can be purchased, not just vapour.

Flashdrives are pretty slow, and they will not fit into the USB on the MBA. Most adapters are in fact, too large for the MBA. Apple did not think that part through very well.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

.


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

kloan said:


> Anyone wonder why they didn't put a _useful_ sized hard drive in there? They're up to *160GB* in the iPod. It's the same physical size HDD, isn't it??
> 
> Was it just to make the 64GB SSD look more appealing? Could they really be that r******d?


The 160GB 1.8" HD is a Double platter 1.8" HDD. The most they can fit on currently shipping HDDs (AFAIK) is 80GB per platter. So the 160GB *is* bigger physically than the 80GB.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

snowmen said:


> Rip it?
> By law do we even allow to do that?
> Plus, a typical movie if using virtual drive, is 4GB, not 700~800MB.


The laws in Canada and the US are different in that respect.

In Canada it's legal to make a copy as long as you own the original and the copy is for your personal use only. Essentially, you cannot profit from the copy.

After all, in Canada you pay a royalty on every blank media you buy - that royalty is intended to compensate the artist, recording company etc.

I ended up with a few too many unplayable DVDs (if I play them often and they get scratched) and so now I save them in mp4 if it's something I enjoy watching over and over again. If I only back up the movie itself on a hard drive, not all the extras they give you on a DVD, I end up with an mp4 file of 700 to 800 MB. That's where that number comes from.
H.264 gives you an even smaller file size and slightly better quality, but it takes much longer to encode.


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

fyrefly said:


> The 160GB 1.8" HD is a Double platter 1.8" HDD. The most they can fit on currently shipping HDDs (AFAIK) is 80GB per platter. So the 160GB *is* bigger physically than the 80GB.


Ok, so they at least could've stuck an 80GB hdd in there instead of that paltry 32GB.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

MacNN | MacBook Air battery life almost truthful - report


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## crawford (Oct 8, 2005)

kloan said:


> Ok, so they at least could've stuck an 80GB hdd in there instead of that paltry 32GB.


They did.


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## crawford (Oct 8, 2005)

EvanPitts said:


> No optical drive = no DVD watching. They have the wireless one, but it is of little use when Air Canada will not allow you to have a peripheral on their planes. You could load DVDs onto the drive, perhaps it would even be considered "fair use", but an MBA user will not be able to do such a thing until the wireless Superdrive is something that can be purchased, not just vapour.
> 
> Flashdrives are pretty slow, and they will not fit into the USB on the MBA. Most adapters are in fact, too large for the MBA. Apple did not think that part through very well.


I have no idea what you're talking about. Who promised a wireless superdrive? Something that hasn't been announced hardly qualifies as "vapour". And I have had no problem fitting my flash drives into my Air. I have heard reports of some 3G modems not fitting into the slot, but do you really think that they would make a USB slot that can't accommodate the overwhelming majority of USB peripherals on the market?


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

crawford said:


> They did.


LOL 

Duhhhh.... I have no idea why I got 32GB stuck in my head... must be from the iPod Touch.

Thanks..... 

Ya know... been thinkin about it, and I'd gladly trade my Macbook for a MBA.. I actually really want a backlit keyboard, much like the Pro I had previously (which was too big and heavy). I guess if I did have a more powerful desktop to go with it, it wouldn't be such a big deal for it having limited expandability. Just don't think it's worth the price tag.

If they priced it at $800-1000, man they'd sell a TON of them.


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## uMac (Jun 14, 2007)

*Arg - Apple Misses the Mark*

I totally dislike the MBA mainly for 3 reasons.
1. Screen is too big for a Sub-notebook. I know the guys in marketing who travel all the time want 10-11 inches max for screen. Apple missed the mark here, students aren't going to be sold this if they could buy MB for less and get more?
2. Super Thinness is Stupid - That extra 0.5 inches they shaved off doesn't do me any good when its got a huge screen.
3. Price - For what it is its good, but there are too many other options which fit the sub-notebook market.

Basically I'm annoyed that they made it so oddly shaped form-factor. I wanted something I could tuck into my camera bag, not need a computer bag - oh look at the weight savings there.

So now I have to find another option...


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## BlueMax (Aug 8, 2005)

It may be thinner than the EeePC, but it's not "smaller".

If you dumped each one into a bucket of water, the MB Air will displace more water than the EeePC will.

The Air is more powerful, but is less portable than the Eee and less functional than an optical-equipped laptop that's only a tiny bit heavier.

The EeePC with a larger storage device (like a 16 or 32MB flash drive instead of the default 4 or 8) would be much more portable and still powerful (though single instead of dual core) and still be only $400+200 for the flash disk.

That's $1200+ cheaper.



*note: Do not dump laptops in water.


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

It weighs 3 pounds!!! For the weight, it has the absolute best screen in the industry. And then there is the full size keyboard. It give me VGA out. It will be my primary (only) machine because it does what I need. I don't really give a phat rat's a$$ if it meets YOUR ideal.


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## uMac (Jun 14, 2007)

BlueMax said:


> It may be thinner than the EeePC, but it's not "smaller".
> ...
> That's $1200+ cheaper.


I totally agree with you, thats why I'm looking at the EeePC right now.


----------



## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

absolutetotalgeek said:


> ???
> 
> Hmmm..... I'm 'bout 's far way from a cowboy as it gets.  I do however work with Thoroughbreds, not quite the same as a Quarter Horse, not at all.
> 
> Nevermind I just realized my avatar has my boots...hahahaha....:lmao: :lmao:




With your "bashingly" intolerant comments characterizing MBA lovers combined with said avatar it was a moment of humour that fell into my lap... I had to take the ball and run with it!


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

uMac said:


> I totally agree with you, thats why I'm looking at the EeePC right now.


enjoy windows!



what's the purpose of this thread?

the mba suits some people, and doesn't others.

now I'll have my second cup of coffee and get on with the day.


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## TrevX (May 10, 2005)

groovetube said:


> enjoy windows!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The eeePC runs Linux.

And yes, this thread is rather pointless as there have been half a dozen MBA threads discussing this very stuff since it was introduced last month. The MBA is definitely for a very specific market and its absolutely clear that most people on this board are not that market. However, I could definitely use the MBA as my main machine because I never use my optical drive on my MBP, I have all wireless peripherals (bluetooth mouse, wireless printer) with the exception of my camera and iPod which are both USB, so I am covered there. However, I wouldn't buy the MBA because I prefer a larger screen. Thats why I disliked the 12" Powerbook which most of you seem to have a boner for. I would never buy the 12" Powerbook, would not meet MY needs...does that make it a bad product? No. But, in keeping with the spirit of this thread, the Powerbook 12" SUCKED.  

Trev


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

hah hah. good one.

linux. oops. Well to add to the spirit of the thread, I guess it's ok as long as you don't need to run many commercial apps. Otherwise, linux SUCKS.


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

Pat McCrotch said:


> So you are a rockstar or a pitcher for the yankees and you need a computer that you can take with you on the plane which you take 3-4 times a week. No movies for you on air canada! Sorry buddy, no peripherals means no DVD, technically. I'll be sitting accross from you watching a movie on my Macbook.


I know it's not much use to Canadians (for the moment), but Apple is clearly betting that online distribution is going to supersede DVDs. That's why anybody in Apple's primary market can load up their computers with movies at the iTMS right now. No optical drive required to buy/rent/watch.


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## Black (Dec 13, 2007)

I own no laptop, so this would be good for me. The price however throws me off completely, it's simply too expensive for me. Everything else is the best, i have an iMac which i could use for the disk drive etc, wireless internet etc.

I'm 17 and i earn 400 a week, you may think that's not bad for someone who hasn't even started college yet, but that's just too little to invest in something so expensive.


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## BlueMax (Aug 8, 2005)

There were some adventurous folks out there hoping to get OSx86 working on an EeePC... I wonder if they were successful?

That'd be kinda' cool, eh?


----------



## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

The vast majority of the people who hate this thing are doing so based on specs, not based on owning the machine or trying it out. It seems to be true of much of modern life, mediated by the Internet rather than direct experience. Something to think about. 

Battery life has been good, the migration process was fine via ethernet, and the new gesturing of the keyboard (that I have to get used to) is efficient and interesting. 

A few days have passed and I love this baby. :baby: :baby:


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

crawford said:


> I have no idea what you're talking about. Who promised a wireless superdrive?


Apple - promised at the same time as the MBA. Without the ability to connect an external by virtue of the lack of Fiewire, they needed something in order to allow users that need to R/W CDs or DVD to do that.



> but do you really think that they would make a USB slot that can't accommodate the overwhelming majority of USB peripherals on the market?


It would not surprise me at all. I have seen a number of pictures of various adapters that will not fit, including USB/Ethernet adapters that will be much needed by many business users, if they want to connect to their networks at work.


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

EvanPitts said:


> including USB/Ethernet adapters that will be much needed by many business users, if they want to connect to their networks at work.


Blah, blah... Apple has an Ethernet adapter...... I ordered one with my MBA. Oddly the ethernet adapter has already shipped... Not so the MBA!!


----------



## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

I wonder what Linus Torvalds thinks of the MBA. Someone please e-mail him.


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## Pelao (Oct 2, 2003)

> Apple - promised at the same time as the MBA. Without the ability to connect an external by virtue of the lack of Fiewire, they needed something in order to allow users that need to R/W CDs or DVD to do that.


I think you may be thinking of remote disk, which apparently works very well. Have a look here:

Apple - MacBook Air - Wireless


----------



## Mr. Fartleberry (Dec 17, 2005)

*Count me out - no pun intended*

Has the Gaybook made it onto Ugly Betty yet? Or has the product placement been delayed due to the writer's strike? 

Just put a C2Duo into the old 12" pro, weatherproof and ruggedize it for field use. Real men don't blow air. 

This product reminds me of the Leica Camera earrings they once sold.


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

Mr. Fartleberry said:


> Has the Gaybook made it onto Ugly Betty yet? Or has the product placement been delayed due to the writer's strike?
> 
> Just put a C2Duo into the old 12" pro, weatherproof and ruggedize it for field use. Real men don't blow air.
> 
> This product reminds me of the Leica Camera earrings they once sold.





Mr. Fartleberry said:


> ........ *Gaybook* ............


????

What a singularly infantile and offensive remark?? Why don't you crawl back under the rock you oozed out from under??


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## Black (Dec 13, 2007)

It made me lol but when i realised he was being serious i was not laughing but confused as to where the usual mature members of this forum went.


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## cap10subtext (Oct 13, 2005)

They went to go try it so they could make an informed decision rather than trolling forums.

Mr. Fartleberry: Sorry to hear you aren't feeling well. Hope you get over your verbal diarrhea soon...


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## snowmen (Jan 20, 2006)

Mr. Fartleberry said:


> Has the Gaybook made it onto Ugly Betty yet? Or has the product placement been delayed due to the writer's strike?
> 
> Just put a C2Duo into the old 12" pro, weatherproof and ruggedize it for field use. Real men don't blow air.
> 
> This product reminds me of the Leica Camera earrings they once sold.


I own or owned both R and M, which one has the earrings?


----------



## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Mr. Fartleberry said:


> Has the Gaybook made it onto Ugly Betty yet? Or has the product placement been delayed due to the writer's strike?
> 
> Just put a C2Duo into the old 12" pro, weatherproof and ruggedize it for field use. Real men don't blow air.
> 
> This product reminds me of the Leica Camera earrings they once sold.


Please keep offensive comments off ehMac.ca please. 3 day vacation granted.


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

ehMax said:


> Please keep offensive comments off ehMac.ca please. 3 day vacation granted.


Well done.


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## mc3251 (Sep 28, 2007)

> Get over it or deal with it. Whatever. We "haters" are perfectly allowed to voice our opinion on all matters. STOP BEING THOUGHT POLICE.


Bravo!

Yikes. This whole labelling thing around haters smacks of some sort of religious doctrine. What happens if you say something bad about Apple? Do you get excommunicated? 
I consider myself a happy and usually satisfied customer. I am not a supplicant or a novitiate. I have a business relationship with Apple, and believe me Apple never loses sight of that fact, so I think neither will I.


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## mc3251 (Sep 28, 2007)

> Oh and our criticism serves a valubale public service to the potential customers who may be unaware of the missing features that they want or need


....and as someone who is relatively new to the Mac world, I am grateful for the people on this forum who speak their opinions openly and honestly. It's all caveat emptor so I need to use judgement in weighing different points of view...but Apple is no different than any other product in this regard.


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## cap10subtext (Oct 13, 2005)

I agree 100% that people are allowed to express a negative opinion about apple products on this forum. I've had a few myself: expressed loudly. But if there should be one rule about bad mouthing an apple product *keep the criticism about the product, not the user. *

And btw, this is a mac community. The irony of "joining a mac community only to be upset if someone disagrees with an anti-mac sentiment" is not lost on anyone.


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

mc3251 said:


> I am grateful for the people on this forum who speak their opinions openly and honestly. It's all caveat emptor so I need to use judgement in weighing different points of view...but Apple is no different than any other product in this regard.


It can be a trying thing, to point out those things that "go against the flow" but nonetheless need to be pointed out as valid critisisms of the various products. It is funny how things become so misunderstood, but then again, that is the purpose of a forum in the first place. I, for one, originally stated that the MBA is a feat of design but for most purposes, too limited to be of general use. In view of the fact that it is a $3100 machine, it makes it a toy for people with enough disposable income. I had never said it was "bad", just that it is uniquely limited for a wide variety of reasons. These limits need to be spelled out, but instead of accepting the fact that the machine in indeed limited, it turns into an insultfest. At least it is a forum in which people can place their opinions into the open, and each opinion does come with the fact that it needs to be weighed by the various parameters. Apple does not always build top notch items (look at all of the failures in the iBooks over the years, and the logic board and battery replacement programs...), but they tend to support their items a lot longer than the rest of the industry.


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## G42G6 (May 21, 2005)

I bought a MacBook Air this week, 1.6GHz/80GB, and I love it..

It's thinner and lighter than I thought it would be, and it performs all the basic tasks I would need on the go (web, chat, mail, watching video, word processing etc)

Is it overpriced? Yeah, it would be perfect at $1499, but it's exactly the machine I was looking for


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

G42G6 said:


> Is it overpriced? Yeah, it would be perfect at $1499, but it's exactly the machine I was looking for


cudos.. that's what counts.

i've warmed up a little to it, but not it's price tag. so i guess if i had a disposable income, i'd probably buy one for s***s n giggles...


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## bembol (Jun 27, 2006)

I checked it out at Yorkdale and love it, Apple not including Optical Drive is what I always wanted.

The $1,899 is what's keeping me from picking it up.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

G42G6 said:


> I bought a MacBook Air this week, 1.6GHz/80GB, and I love it..
> 
> It's thinner and lighter than I thought it would be, and it performs all the basic tasks I would need on the go (web, chat, mail, watching video, word processing etc)
> 
> Is it overpriced? Yeah, it would be perfect at $1499, but it's exactly the machine I was looking for


I agree. I think this hate-on thread would not exist if the price were $1500. This is the best travel laptop for mac lovers that exists today. It's just overpriced by about $500.


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## Sparhawk (Aug 19, 2006)

Mr.Jobs won't be pleased, reading all this 

hehe but yeah, am reading these things as well at those places.
I do love the design... now they will hopefully tweak it a bit more
towards performance.


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## billwong (Jan 6, 2002)

Please don't hate me because I bought one (SSD). ; )

Of course, we would all like to see lower prices. Looking back, I was certainly crazy to get a PB 5300c for (if I remember correctly) 5 grand?

But then again, I still have three G4 Cubes running! Albeit, purchased used and greatly discounted. They still have an appeal to some users.

I'm glad Apple has a varied line up of computers to try to meet everyone's needs/wants/affordability. I was more surprised at the cost of the Sony Viao's after reading more about the "subnotebook" market. The MacBook Air fits in the Luxury category, like an expensive watch or car.

After lugging my MacBook to meetings with my usual briefcase of paperwork, I am wanting the Air more and more now. We are finally starting to go paperless with our meetings, so the Air is looking especially good in my books - and a notebook will be a necessity, and not a luxury - that's what I'll tell my accountant.


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

_To all the haters out there..._

If I gave you a MBA:

1.) You'd keep it and use it = Gee, I guess it doesn't suck

2.) You'd sell it _(and, it would sell)_ = Gee, I guess it doesn't suck

Conclusion: It's Official: MacBook Air _doesn't suck_.


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## slandimac (Jan 9, 2008)

I'm tending on agreeing with the overall opinion on the MBA. First of all I find it a little pricey, sure it's cutting edge technology and that is what Apple is good at, putting out products that are almost prototypes in some regards and there will always be a market for these kind of electronic items whether people really need them or not. I think the MBA is just such a product, it caters to a market of consumers who are out to get the latest and greatest. I saw a MBA with the SSD and when I saw the price I couldn't believe it. I myself was looking at the MB and compared to my old ibook 12" I even find that a tad on the larger size. I'm hoping on finding a good 12" iBook as I desperately want another one. I unfortunately killed my old one when I unsuccessfully attempted to fix the video chip problem. Anyway, I'm digressing, I just wanted to add my $0.02 on the MBA, amazing technology, ultra thin, has lots of OOOHHHH factor, but for that price I find it a bit expensive and I would rather put my money on a MBP.

thanks

slandimac


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

cap10subtext said:


> But if there should be one rule about bad mouthing an apple product *keep the criticism about the product, not the user. *


:clap: :clap: :clap: 

I have no beef with those who have concluded that the product is not for them, for whatever reason -- I happen to be one of them, at least for the time being.

I seem to find myself drawn into these messes when either of two things happens:

1 - when a negative opinion of the product drifts into insults to anyone who would buy one. 

Bottom line: different people have different requirements and priorities, and there's nothing wrong with that. The fur flies when people dismiss other people's requirements as being less valid/worthy/serious than their own.

Whether intended as flamebait or not, whether delivered subtly or in-your-face, that kind of dismissal is bound to stir the pot.

2 - when criticisms are grounded in inaccurate statements.

Inaccurate statements always need to be corrected, period. Those who don't like being corrected should check their facts before posting. Problem solved.

What's more, when an opinion is grounded in inaccuracy, it becomes virtually inevitable that the opinion itself will be challenged.


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## cymbeline13 (Feb 9, 2008)

**

i love my ibook; wouldn't want anything else now that it has leopard, but i have to admit that the air is cute. all apple products are made equal; my ipod shuffle holds only 200 songs and has only 3 hrs battery power as well as no screen, but i still worship it.:love2:


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Bjornbro said:


> _To all the haters out there..._
> 
> If I gave you a MBA:
> 
> ...


Lame. 

If you gave me a Gaming PC and I sold it, would that make Windows less sucky?


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Consider this: if weight is a such a key feature, why act like Apple has created an engineering marvel? if you do the math, the amount of weight the missing components comprise of are what the reason the Air is so light.

So, generally speaking, you're paying more for Apple to give you less.


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

MannyP Design said:


> if you do the math, the amount of weight the missing components comprise of are what the reason the Air is so light.


Duh!


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## SoyMac (Apr 16, 2005)

MannyP Design said:


> Consider this: if weight is a such a key feature, why act like Apple has created an engineering marvel? if you do the math, the amount of weight the missing components comprise of are what the reason the Air is so light.
> So, generally speaking, you're paying more for Apple to give you less.


It's a circular argument, but "missing components" to one, is "better design" to another. Floppy drive, anybody? Why not - wouldn't it add weight (and therefor, value)?
Also, if you equate value directly with total components weight, then the fake MacBook AirCraft _should_ cost more than a MacBook Pro, and everyone should be happy with the hypothetical higher price. Look what you get for the money!!! Hey, why not add in Ginsu knives and a dehumidifier?

But it's a discussion no-one will win, because some will happily pay more for the convenient, minimalist design, because it works best for _them_. And some will feel that they're not getting something that _they_ value at this moment.

Round and round we go, and I've just added to the momentum.


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## madhatress (Jul 22, 2007)

MannyP Design said:


> Consider this: if weight is a such a key feature, why act like Apple has created an engineering marvel? if you do the math, the amount of weight the missing components comprise of are what the reason the Air is so light.
> 
> So, generally speaking, you're paying more for Apple to give you less.


As a person that works in aerospace in weights no less, I can tell you that finding weight savings cost $$$. You think that Intel made their processor smaller just by taking out a few extra tidbits? That prolly took a lot of man hours for design and testing.

And every good company passes along additional cost to their customers. Eventually it will get cheaper as demand increases and technological improvements drive down manufacturing costs.


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## snowmen (Jan 20, 2006)

SoyMac said:


> It's a circular argument, but "missing components" to one, is "better design" to another. Floppy drive, anybody? Why not - wouldn't it add weight (and therefor, value)?
> Also, if you equate value directly with total components weight, then the fake MacBook AirCraft _should_ cost more than a MacBook Pro, and everyone should be happy with the hypothetical higher price. Look what you get for the money!!! Hey, why not add in Ginsu knives and a dehumidifier?
> 
> But it's a discussion no-one will win, because some will happily pay more for the convenient, minimalist design, because it works best for _them_. And some will feel that they're not getting something that _they_ value at this moment.
> ...


Guys... Stop using Floppy as excuse on MBA's missing optical drive.

The reason of getting rid of the Floppy drive is because no body sold software/music/movie on floppy anymore...

But now, it seems software/music/movie are still avaliable on optical drive...
Come on~~~ Even OS X are still on DVD.

Was OS 8 on floppy when iMac got rid of floppy?


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## SoyMac (Apr 16, 2005)

snowmen said:


> Guys... Stop using Floppy as excuse on MBA's missing optical drive...


We use floppy because it's an example, a _symbol_, of technology that was thought to be necessary but dropped early on by Apple. 
The explanations of why optical drives are not necessary to many users has already repeatedly been made.


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## Atroz (Aug 7, 2005)

snowmen said:


> Guys... Stop using Floppy as excuse on MBA's missing optical drive.
> 
> But now, it seems software/music/movie are still avaliable on optical drive...
> Come on~~~ Even OS X are still on DVD.


Beyond the OS DVD and a few commercial video games, almost everything that I've bought for my Macs in recent years has been software or music downloads. I'm trying to recall the last time I put a CD/DVD in to a Mac. I think it was when I did my Leopard upgrades back in the Fall. Certainly true for my laptop. The iMac may have had a game disk in it a few months ago. Not really sure.

Optical is dying because for the most part it is not required, especially for SD TV, software and music. It will be a little while yet before optical is dead for HDTV content. 

I've got no real problem with giving up an optical drive in a laptop. I'd still need one in the house some place for things like OS installs, but I don't need it on my portable computer.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

SoyMac said:


> It's a circular argument, but "missing components" to one, is "better design" to another. Floppy drive, anybody? Why not - wouldn't it add weight (and therefor, value)?
> Also, if you equate value directly with total components weight, then the fake MacBook AirCraft _should_ cost more than a MacBook Pro, and everyone should be happy with the hypothetical higher price. Look what you get for the money!!! Hey, why not add in Ginsu knives and a dehumidifier?
> 
> But it's a discussion no-one will win, because some will happily pay more for the convenient, minimalist design, because it works best for _them_. And some will feel that they're not getting something that _they_ value at this moment.
> ...


Right, so you're saying that by excluding a DVD drive is actually good because you don't really need any sort of media to do upgrades or install software--like your OS.

Let me know how that works out for you.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

madhatress said:


> As a person that works in aerospace in weights no less, I can tell you that finding weight savings cost $$$. You think that Intel made their processor smaller just by taking out a few extra tidbits? That prolly took a lot of man hours for design and testing.
> 
> And every good company passes along additional cost to their customers. Eventually it will get cheaper as demand increases and technological improvements drive down manufacturing costs.


Are you saying that by removing, oh say, the communications equipment from an airplane actually costs more? I'm not talking about miniaturization, we're talking about outright _removing_ equipment. _Not_ making it smaller.

That said, Steve Jobs has (or used to have) a sign by his office that read "it's the software, stupid" and while it's impressive that Apple has built amazing functionality utilizing WiFi hardware, removing key--important--hardware only works to hinder usability. Ultimately you need hard copies of key software because internet connectivity isn't always going to _be_ there when you need it. Another computer to connect to via WiFi isn't always going to _be_ there. And when your MacBook Air craps out and you want to do a clean install... you just might not have access to your OS disks.

Unless you buy the external DVD drive. But that's like the floppy anyway so you probably don't want it. Because people apparently don't use discs anymore.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

How does the MacBook Air compare to this Toshiba notebook, forgetting about Mac OS X and the larger display for a minute?

It's as thin as 0.77 inches, but does include an optical drive, weighs 2.4 pounds and has a battery life of 9.7 hours. Pretty impressive if you ask me.

Backbone Magazine - Toshiba Launches World's Thinnest Notebook with Integrated Optical Drive


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## SoyMac (Apr 16, 2005)

MannyP Design said:


> Right, so you're saying that by excluding a DVD drive is actually good because you don't really need any sort of media to do upgrades or install software--like your OS.
> 
> Let me know how that works out for you.


I see through your attempt at being disingenuous. 
I know that you know that much software in metropolitan areas is _upgraded_ from online. And I know that you know that the MacBook Air can _install_ software from a networked, _any_ optical drive.
That works out _fine_ for me.  

What was the question again? 

.


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## zlinger (Aug 28, 2007)

Ahh. My computer is so silent now. No more annoying optical or hard drive sounds. Only a barely audible whisper of a fan. Snappy everything. Clean and simple.

After one week with an MBA 1.8/64 with external SuperDrive, I am 100% satisfied. Modular CD/DVD optical drives work well. Flash is the future. Light is right. Industrial design all the way.


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## madhatress (Jul 22, 2007)

MannyP Design said:


> Are you saying that by removing, oh say, the communications equipment from an airplane actually costs more? I'm not talking about miniaturization, we're talking about outright _removing_ equipment. _Not_ making it smaller.
> 
> That said, Steve Jobs has (or used to have) a sign by his office that read "it's the software, stupid" and while it's impressive that Apple has built amazing functionality utilizing WiFi hardware, removing key--important--hardware only works to hinder usability. Ultimately you need hard copies of key software because internet connectivity isn't always going to _be_ there when you need it. Another computer to connect to via WiFi isn't always going to _be_ there. And when your MacBook Air craps out and you want to do a clean install... you just might not have access to your OS disks.
> 
> Unless you buy the external DVD drive. But that's like the floppy anyway so you probably don't want it. Because people apparently don't use discs anymore.


No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying that making some parts smaller/lighter may cost more at first due to research and development cost. 

I think the whole macbook air haters vs. ravers arguement boils down to user requirements. Everyone has different requirements. This is true for everything from knives to jet engines. I'm not gonna buy a bread knife to fillet salmon, and no aircraft manufacturer would procure a 1000 lb thrust engine to use in an aircraft the size of an A380! (ref: List of Airbus A380 orders and deliveries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Some people need ethernet build in, some can't remember the last time they were wired. Some people have to have a superdrive, others never use it, unless Aunt Martha wants a CD of pics from last Christmas.

The bottom line is that most big corporations that want to make money don't design and release products for s**ts and giggles. There is usually some research done re: target market, customer requirements, etc. People that want/need 2 USB ports, firewire, and a built in optical drive already have TWO lines of Apple laptops made for them: the Macbook and Macbook Pro.

Just because a bread knife won't fillet my salmon, doesn't mean it sucks. It's all about having the right tool for the right job.


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

MannyP Design said:


> So, generally speaking, you're paying more for Apple to give you less.


LMAO.. 

Oh man...... that's frickin hilarious! That sums it up perfectly.


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## madhatress (Jul 22, 2007)

kloan said:


> LMAO..
> 
> Oh man...... that's frickin hilarious! That sums it up perfectly.


Uhh....no. You would only be paying more for Apple to give you less if they just pulled stuff out of the guts of a Macbook and sold it for more money. The Air is not a MB or a MBP it an ENTIRELY new product. I don't understand how people can't see that....


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## billwong (Jan 6, 2002)

Madhatress is right. If Apple stopped selling the Macbook and Macbook Pro, and replaced it with the Macbook Air, then we will all be justifiably disappointed (angry?). But now we have a choice of three Macbook models. Rejoice!

With the pending updates to the MacBook Pro line, some will certainly be swayed to the Pro line. Some will still go for the Macbook Air because its just what they want and need. And there are plenty of people who want it but don't need it - unlike any other laptop!


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2008)

The old saying, "Can't see the wood for the trees" springs to mind.

You "Air Knocker", have all missed the point entirely.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

SoyMac said:


> I see through your attempt at being disingenuous.
> I know that you know that much software in metropolitan areas is _upgraded_ from online. And I know that you know that the MacBook Air can _install_ software from a networked, _any_ optical drive.
> That works out _fine_ for me.
> 
> ...


Major applications are (mostly) bought and distributed on media. Period.
Your OS discs are as well. Period. When the next gen. Mac OS is distributed, do you think 4 Gb+ are going to be distributed over the web? Not bloody likely because you've always need to boot of a disc.

.

What are you going to do if you can't load or boot from a networked drive? That depends on whether or not you have access to another computer... not to mention one with WiFi--never mind the latency between the devices.

Sure, you could buy the superdrive... but that brings the price closer to a MacBook Pro and adds almost 2 lbs. of weight if you lug it around with you.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

silverdreamer said:


> The old saying, "Can't see the wood for the trees" springs to mind.
> 
> You "Air Knocker", have all missed the point entirely.


Please feel free to educate us haters. 

So far the "Air Heads" have all but done so.


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## Atroz (Aug 7, 2005)

MannyP Design said:


> Major applications are (mostly) bought and distributed on media. Period.
> Your OS discs are as well. Period. When the next gen. Mac OS is distributed, do you think 4 Gb+ are going to be distributed over the web? Not bloody likely because you've always need to boot of a disc.
> 
> .
> ...


You are right. There's still a need for optical drives for some uses because people are stuck with the old distribution model. But that doesn't mean you need to haul around the optical drive every day because you may install something once in a while. The only reasonable reason for this is the OS disk as you say, you need something to boot off. Everything else can be downloaded, even 4 gig files. I can download 4 Gigs faster than you can ship me a DVD. 

Perhaps the few companies that need media should distribute software on USB sticks. Lots of companies give them away for promotions. A 1 Gig stick (bigger than a CD) is <$10. A 4Gig stick is only $25 retail. If Apple did this, the next OS update would leave you with a usable stick instead of a shiny plastic disc that nobody wants.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

billwong said:


> Madhatress is right. If Apple stopped selling the Macbook and Macbook Pro, and replaced it with the Macbook Air, then we will all be justifiably disappointed (angry?). But now we have a choice of three Macbook models. Rejoice!
> 
> With the pending updates to the MacBook Pro line, some will certainly be swayed to the Pro line. Some will still go for the Macbook Air because its just what they want and need. And there are plenty of people who want it but don't need it - unlike any other laptop!


The Air, to me, is nothing more than a MacBook "mini"--the über low-end model with reduced features for the sake of forming a smaller more compact computer. Unfortunately it's over-priced.

It's the PERFECT laptop for schools. But I doubt you'll see many in classrooms, with the exception of maybe college students. Apple has missed a great opportunity in their market focus with this model.


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## cap10subtext (Oct 13, 2005)

I really wish I didn't keep getting pulled back into this thread but I HAVE to say something.

MannyP: there's little point in this kind of speculation especially in a forum where clearly tempers have flared but if those aren't just rhetorical problems you're raising I'm willing to offer plausible counter arguments.

People who spend the kind of $$ you are talking about on an Air love to buy new stuff. Apple can take that one to the bank. So will they innovate or throw the early adopters to the wolves? I'm sure that you could cite examples of each.



> Major applications are (mostly) bought and distributed on media. Period.


I would honestly like to hear a few examples of the programs you speak of.

And 10 years ago ALL (not most) were distributed on hard media. But the ONLY software disk I even have sitting around my house is CS3. Apples logic is simply that if the program weighs in a 4+ gigs you will a) install it at home because the installation will take you 2 hours and comes with 6 disks (like final cut pro), or b) you will be doing so on a media production machine which could be use to burn disks, and therefore has a drive in it. Professional 3D rendering programs like Houdini are all downloaded now. I personally love the freedom of software installs without disks and would buy into that as the future of software distribution.



> Your OS discs are as well. Period. When the next gen. Mac OS is distributed, do you think 4 Gb+ are going to be distributed over the web? Not bloody likely because you've always need to boot of a disc.


Sure I think you could put an OS update over the web. Compression is getting better and better. When you crunch the numbers over a gig of what is on a Mac OSX install disk is Printer drivers and Language support. 



> What are you going to do if you can't load or boot from a networked drive? That depends on whether or not you have access to another computer... not to mention one with WiFi--never mind the latency between the devices.


All apple would have to do is create a USB device that can be made bootable and there's your emergency boot disk (no need to include drivers). 

But where on earth would apple find such a device?

It's not a stretch to imagine that future versions of Time Capsule could download your OS Update (incrementally if necessary) directly onto the HD through the cable. Plug your afore mentioned USB device in and the new OS boots from that instead of the disk. Your install copies to your drive, checks to make sure it's complete and then installs on your computer.

Like I said, speculation will get you nowhere, I admit this, and just think this thread will be a point of embarrassment for all of us in two years.


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## crawford (Oct 8, 2005)

MannyP Design said:


> Sure, you could buy the superdrive... but that brings the price closer to a MacBook Pro and adds almost 2 lbs. of weight if you lug it around with you.


For me, the Air will be a secondary machine for traveling, working with clients, etc. In my >10 years of using laptops, I have very rarely used the built-in optical drive (or switched out batteries, for that matter). In the year that I owned my MacBook, I used the optical drive exactly once: to install Leopard. 

And btw, according to Apple, the SuperDrive accessory weighs a total of 320g or 0.71 pounds, which is a lot less than "almost 2 lbs." that you claim.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

crawford said:


> For me, the Air will be a secondary machine for traveling, working with clients, etc. In my >10 years of using laptops, I have very rarely used the built-in optical drive (or switched out batteries, for that matter). In the year that I owned my MacBook, I used the optical drive exactly once: to install Leopard.


Exactly the same for me. Never use it. But I am constantly reminded how heavy my MBP is when I make my through airports or am packing my bag in a hurry and there's no space in my bag for all the crap I end up toting around.


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## daBoss (Jun 20, 2003)

My MBA is basically a peripheral for my other Mac. It's small, lightweight and fast enough for my needs when travelling. That's the essence of MBA. It's NOT a CS3, Aperture, FinalCut mobile studio.


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

cap10subtext said:


> Sure I think you could put an OS update over the web. Compression is getting better and better.


I could not imagine downloading an entire OS over the Web - it would take far too long for too many people. Not everyone has access to special High Speed Internet and are forced to use dial up because of a lack of alternatives. At 18MB/hour, or about 400 MB/day, in ideal curcumstances, Leopard would take about 12 days to download; even longer if, for reliability purposes, a torrent or torrent like software package would be needed.

Then there are those who have High Speed Internet - but have stated download limits, such as the 10GB/month that Sympatico has on many of their packages. One would need to decide whether to use most of that bandwidth fooling around with a downloaded OS, or to watch a movie.

Then there is the problem that lies in installing, as the image would need to be burned to DVD because the hard drive would have to be initialized. Not to mention the fact that they are already talking about "internet brownouts". It would be some amazing kind of compression to make an OS install as quick as from CD.

So, for $3100, one can have a machine that is less capable than one that is half the price, with a weak processor, poor battery life, and lacking key resources - but has a computer that is .02 inches thinner than the competition... As I said, a rich man's toy with little practical use.


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## crawford (Oct 8, 2005)

EvanPitts said:


> So, for $3100, one can have a machine that is less capable than one that is half the price, with a weak processor, poor battery life, and lacking key resources - but has a computer that is .02 inches thinner than the competition... As I said, a rich man's toy with little practical use.


Continuing to misrepresent facts by continually referring to it as a $3100 computer doesn't really do much to strengthen your arguments.


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

crawford said:


> Continuing to misrepresent facts by continually referring to it as a $3100 computer doesn't really do much to strengthen your arguments.


It is not a misrepresentation, the MBA is a $3100 machine, when equiped with the SSD.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

EvanPitts said:


> It is not a misrepresentation, the MBA is a $3100 machine, when equiped with the SSD.


good god. This thread seriously isn't still happening.

by your logic, then lets all agree the mac pro is 20 grand.

yep, add in the expensive options, and I'd say that machine is an expensive behemoth that no one will buy.

a complete failure.

There. Hopefully I've contributed more facts to this useful thread.


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## billwong (Jan 6, 2002)

Played around with a MBA SSD at Yorkdale today. Fast on launching applications. Surprisingly light. Same real estate on the keyboard/display as a Macbook. It will fit perfectly in a slot in my briefcase. Glad I ordered it, it works for me!


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2008)

silverdreamer said:


> The old saying, "Can't see the wood for the trees" springs to mind.
> 
> You "Air Knocker", have all missed the point entirely.


I have posted this before, but for those that missed it, here it is again. I think the guy is pretty well on the money.

The real point of MacBook Air - and why everyone is missing it. - Mac Forums


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## Suite Edit (Dec 17, 2003)

groovetube said:


> good god. This thread seriously isn't still happening.
> ...There. Hopefully I've contributed more facts to this useful thread.


HAHAHAHAHA Thank you!


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

MannyP Design said:


> if you do the math, the amount of weight the missing components comprise of are what the reason the Air is so light.


I'd like to see that math.

Are you seriously suggesting an optical drive, FW port, second USB port and audio-in port (+ their circuitry) weigh two full pounds or more? Is there some other missing component I've forgotten? A pound and a half of gravel, maybe?

I think if you really did the math you'd find most of the weight savings come from use of lightweight materials and miniaturized components. 

Whatever. I remain amazed and bemused that you still have your panties in a bunch because people are willing to pay extra for an ultra-light, ultra-slim computer. Yeah, it's a bad deal *for you* and it doesn't have the features *you* need and horror of horrors, it's premium priced. All so very shocking indeed.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

iMatt said:


> I'd like to see that math.
> 
> Are you seriously suggesting an optical drive, FW port, second USB port and audio-in port (+ their circuitry) weigh two full pounds or more? Is there some other missing component I've forgotten? A pound and a half of gravel, maybe?
> 
> ...


It's not I who has their panties in a bunch, I assure you. :lmao:

I've never once criticized someone for wanting to pay for an ultra-light. If the AirHeads would exit knee-jerk mode for one second you'd realize that I'm criticizing a machine--not a person. I know, I know, some people have trouble differentiating between the two. It happens.

I doubt you would want to see the math. The USB superdrive itself almost weights 2 lbs. (and it doesn't even have a power supply) so it's not difficult to imagine at all--and it's easy to verify components over the web. Not that you really care.


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

MannyP Design said:


> I've never once criticized someone for wanting to pay for an ultra-light.


Sorry, but it does seem implicit in many of your posts on the subject.



> So, generally speaking, you're paying more for Apple to give you less.


Is that not just a tad mocking of the customer, not the computer?



> If the *AirHeads* would exit *knee-jerk* mode for one second you'd realize that I'm criticizing a machine--not a person. I know, I know, *some people have trouble differentiating* between the two. It happens.


 

Look, if you want to claim it's not personal for you, it's probably best not to take a series of personal digs in the very next sentence.

Anyway, I'll accept some blame for the panties-in-a-bunch comment being out of line. Let's get back to the issue:



> I doubt you would want to see the math. The USB superdrive itself almost weights 2 lbs. (and it doesn't even have a power supply) so it's not difficult to imagine at all--and it's easy to verify components over the web. Not that you really care.


Nope, I'd love to see the math. 

I'll help you get started: The USB superdrive weighs just over 1 lb and, as you say, doesn't have a separate power supply because it's powered through the USB port. (Apple Canada - MacBook Air - Technical Specifications)

Edit: see post below. A quarter of a pound for an internal module? Is it safe to guess that you haven't actually done the math?

Edit: list of differences deleted. I figure Manny doesn't really need any more help doing the math.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

If you go back and read some of the discussions that went on at Apple about the inclusion/exclusion of the DVD drive, you will find that weight was never the issue, physical size and specifically thickness was.
Apple tried all sorts of innovative ways to get some drive design to fit into the MBA form factor.
The weight of a super thin DVD burner is only 3.9 oz., that's about 110 grams or less than 1/4 pound.
DVD SUPER MULTI DRIVE KIT CD+ - PA3410U1DV2 - Buy.com


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## Cuzz323 (May 3, 2007)

most people never buy a second battery though the life span of a product they own and MACBOOK AIR is generally for someone who already has a main computer and this is their secondary light weight companion 

i have a laptop and a desktop and i would still get this because it is lighter and fits me perfectly

i spend 70% of my time on the computer just goofing around the internet on blogs and facebook and checking new camera gear.

3 years ago this would of been considered the top of the line Powerbook G4 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: 

in 2001 the 17 inch powerbook was the worlds Thinnest laptop and 7 years later we got the number 1 spot back


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