# Air Marshall Steve



## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Now it’s safe to assume that the evacuation of Canadians from Lebanon is not an easy task. 

After seeing the staged media photo opt of Steve and Laureen crying at the tomb of a great-uncle that she never knew, I wondered what other BS encounter we could expect. 
I’m not saying that she should not of grieved or cried – quite the contrary, but if it was such an emotional moment, they could of gone in private instead of taking the media circus along with them.

Maybe he’s trying to shore up some support from the rank and file after a complete lack of empathy towards the dead Canadians in Lebanon. 

Charcoal rubbings aside, we hear with great fanfare that “call me man of action” Steve is diverting Air Canada One to Cyprus to pick up a few tourist. With great fanfare it was announced that Steve would be ditching the entourage except for a skeleton crew (can’t leave the official photographer behind can we?). Okay, so far, a good thing to do – cynicism aside. 

Heck even the big headlines saying that the first 2000 that were to come home looked good.

So where to we stand today?
Micro-managing Steve seems can only arrange photo-opts for himself and nothing more.



> Micromanagement by the Prime Minister's Office and a lack of resources in Lebanon contributed to the confusion and anguish at Beirut's port Wednesday as *Canadians trying to flee Israeli bombardments watched boats chartered by other nations sail away*, leaving them behind.
> 
> In fact, Foreign Affairs staff realized last week that there was an emergency situation involving tens of thousands of Canadians brewing in Lebanon.
> But federal sources say there was *an edict handed down by Sandra Buckler*, the Prime Minister's communications director, *dictating that the situation was to be kept under wraps.*


When will Harper learn that you can’t micromanage everything – it just does not work in a large organization.


> “I haven't heard anything from the Canadians — they haven't even told us they're here,” Homer Mavrommatis, head of the Consular Affairs division for the Cypriot government, said Wednesday.
> Aside from shortage of staff, the Canadians involved in the operation say they were *hampered by another difficulty: the Prime Minister's centralized command and communications policies* — frustrations that were expressed both in the Middle East and in Ottawa.


I can understand the frustration – Harper is a Seagull manager – Not only that, his desire for publicity has endangered the lives of Canadians wanting to leave. He has undermined the staff on the terrain by not empowering them to do their jobs unfettered by a line of communication that runs to Ottawa and back. 


> Ottawa, citing “security issues,” then took a full day to finalize the deal. The number of ships and the terms of the deal kept changing, officials said, as they dealt with increasingly angry families.
> On Tuesday night, they realized that the promise they'd made earlier — that there would be seven boats each transporting two loads of Canadians per day starting Wednesday — could never be met. There wouldn't be seven boats, and it appeared unlikely that even one of them would be able to make it across the Mediterranean by the end of last night.





> In Cyprus, Canadian officials said they felt betrayed by Ottawa. Canadian diplomats say *the reason Wednesday's evacuation was so catastrophically slow is because decisions had to be routed through Ottawa* — and nobody was even at work in Ottawa until midafternoon in Lebanon. *“If you want to know where that boat is going, don't ask us — it's Ottawa driving the boat,”* one official said, using a line repeated by others throughout the day.





> on Tuesday, *Ottawa abruptly switched the target of the evacuation from Cyprus to Turkey*, where there are both hotel spaces and the facilities to quickly airlift evacuees to Canada using military or commercial planes.
> 
> Still, *that switch took Canadian officials in Cyprus by surprise*. Wednesday morning they prepared to move the Nicosia operation to Turkey.
> 
> ...


So if we understand correctly, the Canadians will be going to Turkey, but for the photo-opt Harper had to ask the Brits to import a few Canadians for the photo opt? Lovely Steve – it’s nice to see that your wishes come before what’s good for Canadians. So of the 120 pieces of photo opt, how many actually made it – 20 I read… 

So our Tilley-wearing glorious leader shows his management style in time of crisis…
This media stunt of his during what at the best of times would be a nightmare shows not only he’s willing to put his publicity ahead of Canadians, his style of micromanagement does not work in a crisis.

Source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060720.wticktock20/BNStory/National/


I'd like to say it's all Paul Martin's fault.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

This gesture would have been so much more less open to cynicism if Stephen Harper had simply not had his official photographer along for the ride (and would have also allowed one more evacuee on the plane).


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> When will Harper learn that you can’t micromanage everything – it just does not work in a large organization.


Definitely.

And of course, some excellent quotes for the media by souls of wisdom:

More news:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060720.wevacuate20/BNStory/International/home
.......
"I'm not even supposed to be standing. I could lose my baby just standing here. I guess they don't care."
.......
"The U.S., the French, the Italians took care of their citizens. Are we not worth it because we're second-class citizens? Because we're Lebanese-Canadian?"
........
"I pay a lot of taxes — $400,000 a year for 16 years. What I want to know is what have I been paying for?" 
........


I'm all for fair criticism on this though.

This is shaping up to be a large eff-up. The next week will be critical because, in the end, there are so many Canadians to move (did foreign affairs realize how many there were?) that it was never going to happen quickly, especially for a country without local naval presence. Still, a good start would have helped. 

Most factors were outside of Harper's control but that stupid information control thing was always going to create problems for them. If this doesn't work out well, it looks like he will deservedly pay a political price, overstated or not.


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

A slight break in my posting policy to simply say that the Conservative member suggesting that the evacuees who are dual citizens should pay for this service was revolting. I guess whichever member it was who observed how wonderful it was to NOT hear the hyphenated versus "real" Canadians distinction spoke too soon.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5184134.stm

Given the U.S. goals and their capabilities, Canada is in for the long-haul and will need help from other nations after they've evacuated their people.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

The criticism on this evacuation is ridiculous. Firstly, nobody could predict that Israel was going to launch a major counter-offensive. Secondly, when you live in a war town area, this kind of thing goes with the territory. Thirdly, Israel isn't targetting civilians and there are plenty of safe places to stay in Lebanon (yes I know a number of Canadians were killed, but that's jsut bad luck as much as anything). The food and water aren't just going to run out overnight. It's going to take a couple months before the serious problems start to set in. 

Canada is not a European country. Obviously they are going to get people out first because they have resources in the area. The US will also get there before us because they have resources everywhere. 

The Liberals cut our military resources and it's amazing we can get there in the first place. The Aussies are actually asking us for help.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

VD, I'm not sure where you are getting your news - but your premises are wrong. 
(I somehow knew the Con brigade would blame the Liberals for this one).

The criticism is that the micromanaging style and "I'm the guy looking for a photo-opt" has added to the chaos. No one has undermined the task at hand. What has been undermined is the effectiveness of the evacuations by not letting our officials do their jobs unfettered.

Last minute changes to accommodate Steve and not the situation is not standing up for Canada - it's pandering for a photo opt.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Beej said:


> ........
> "I pay a lot of taxes — $400,000 a year for 16 years. What I want to know is what have I been paying for?"
> ........



Seriously, this person can afford their own jet home.

And they might want to hire a new accountant on the way.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

HowEver said:


> Seriously, this person can afford their own jet home.
> 
> And they might want to hire a new accountant on the way.


pretty callous advice to someone facing artillery shells and air strikes


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Vandave said:


> The criticism on this evacuation is ridiculous.


:clap:


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Anything else to add SINC? No rebuttal? Just a MacDoc-like emocon?

Maybe if our officials had be left to manage the crisis instead of your dictator diverting their attention with his photo opt whims. Better yet, he should of left the Airbus without him and make arrangements to fly home some other way (Challenger or other).

His rescue "attempts" should of been left to the real professionals.


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## MLeh (Dec 23, 2005)

AS - it seems to me no matter what the current PM does, you will find fault with it. There's this thing called 'leadership' you know, which sometimes involves making decisions, and at times making a decision results in unexpected deviations from the plans. Now ... what was the nickname earned by our former PM? ...

I think Harper probably thought he was doing a good thing by diverting the flight to Cypress. Optics aside, there will be a few people who WILL get home a little quicker. I look at actual results.

If he'd have flown home in the jet, would you have complained because he'd not done something? Really ... can't win with you.


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## Paul O'Keefe (Jun 3, 2005)

Speaking of actually results our minority Prime Minister should be putting pressure on all sides and parties for an immediate ceasefire. Those words and actions could only help Canadians in Lebabon. Those are results that I would like to see from the Leader of the Conservative Party.


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

Paul O'Keefe said:


> Speaking of actually results our minority Prime Minister should be putting pressure on all sides and parties for an immediate ceasefire. Those words and actions could only help Canadians in Lebabon. Those are results that I would like to see from the Leader of the Conservative Party.


Absolutely correct. :clap: 

Is it me or are the optics on this just no-win for Harper. One one hand he supports Israel bombing the **** out of Lebanon, on the other hand he feels the need to personally bring home those people fleeing this action.

So when Israel or the US starts bombing Syria and/or Iran... will he be on an Airbus to ferry home Iranian Canadians or Syrian Canadians?


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

The responses are very much like those when Katrina hit the south... the huge difference being, of course, the logistics of getting a rescue team to the other side of the world that is currently under heavy fighting.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

MLeh said:


> AS - it seems to me no matter what the current PM does, you will find fault with it. There's this thing called 'leadership' you know, which sometimes involves making decisions, and at times making a decision results in unexpected deviations from the plans. Now ... what was the nickname earned by our former PM? ...
> 
> I think Harper probably thought he was doing a good thing by diverting the flight to Cypress. Optics aside, there will be a few people who WILL get home a little quicker. I look at actual results.
> 
> If he'd have flown home in the jet, would you have complained because he'd not done something? Really ... can't win with you.


I recognized that long ago.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

MLeh said:


> I think Harper probably thought he was doing a good thing by diverting the flight to Cypress. Optics aside, there will be a few people who WILL get home a little quicker. I look at actual results.


He probably did think he was doing something good. 
So what you are saying is that for a photo opt it's okay for the PM to endanger operations.



MLeh said:


> If he'd have flown home in the jet, would you have complained because he'd not done something? Really ... can't win with you.


No so. He make the big stink about going to Cypress (sic). 
His micromanaging style created a logistical nightmare to an already difficult situation. Worse, the changes imposed by his meddling have set back and diverted precious manpower to accommodate his "look at me helping Canadians" attitude. Coupled with the bumbling and top heavy communication scheme, this has acerbated the situation.
The greater problem has been getting the refugees out of Lebanon, not the flying them home. 
A magnanimous Leader would of given Air Canada One over to the appropriate officials and taken Challenger home. 
Instead, we have a megalomanic PM that cares more about photos than Canadians.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> pretty callous advice to someone facing artillery shells and air strikes


No, really, let's spend tens of thousands getting the millionaires out of Lebanon.

Better?


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Millionaires are people, too.


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

« MannyP Design » said:


> Millionaires are people, too.


Just better ones... with more money. Right


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

da_jonesy said:


> Just better ones... with more money. Right


No. They're people all the same--the amount of wealth is irrelevant. A person killed is no more sad if they're either rich or poor. Too bad some people can't see past it.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

This came across the newswire:


> The slow and painful evacuation of thousands of citizens from Lebanon offers a first big test for the Conservative government, which on Thursday started showing signs of strain amid growing evacuee anger.
> 
> As he (Harper) waited in Larnaca, arguments broke out inside his government over who was responsible for the problems.
> 
> ...


http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/Ne...-CANADA-POLITICS-COL.XML&pageNumber=1&summit=

Should we be starting a poll on when heads will roll?


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)




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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I'm glad you were able to maintain your no-post policy while still posting RevMatt--you should be in politics!


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

HowEver said:


> No, really, let's spend tens of thousands getting the millionaires out of Lebanon.
> Better?


I guess it's because they are "Lebanese-Candian millionaires" that makes the difference, eh?
You make me sick.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Spec: You tend to make yourslf sick by extrapolating non-existent information from other peoples' posts to the point of your own nausea.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

go back to your hole macfury
the one where immigrants knew their place and didn't question the queen


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Macfury said:


> Spec: You tend to make yourslf sick by extrapolating non-existent information from other peoples' posts to the point of your own nausea.


Yep. That's 'Spec.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> go back to your hole macfury
> the one where immigrants knew their place and didn't question the queen


It was very considerate of you to make MF's point for him. You really do care.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Beej said:


> It was very considerate of you to make MF's point for him. You really do care.


for MF and his ilk, not one bit
ok, if he was drowning and i was holding a life preserver and i wasn't particularly busy, maybe....


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> for MF and his ilk, not one bit
> ok, if he was drowning and i was holding a life preserver and i wasn't particularly busy, maybe....


Don't forget to charge a fee; MF's no socialist and you're no reasonable person.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Beej said:


> Don't forget to charge a fee; MF's no socialist and you're no reasonable person.


i'd only chage a fee if i indeed did thrown him the device
no service, no fee


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I do question the Queen, by the way. I wrote a letter to Her Majesty last week, asking if she preferred butter or whiskey-cut marmalade with her tea-time scones.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Air Marshall Steve's rescue plan:


> The first ship carrying Canadians arrives in Cyprus. Exhausted, often dehydrated, the 261 passengers disembark at Larnaca, saying they were treated like animals.
> Late in the day, six ships carrying 1,375 passengers depart Beirut.
> 
> *MacKay admits the ships are not fully loaded, but cannot explain why.* Those ships head to the port of Mersin, Turkey.
> ...


http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...geid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1153433434882

Today, the smaller chartered ship has been delayed by 12 hours - no reason given and two other larger vessels are also delayed...

Potato patch Pete does have the time to write to The Globe and Mail (and sending it to many media sources) and tells them "You wrote a very mean story".... 
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/bnfiles/pages/mackaylettertogreenspon.html
I guess the rescue operation is not such a high priority for him. First the letter, then the photo opt on the tarmac.... 

Meanwhile, the Quebec government and some social groups has been able to set up services for these "fake Canadians" in a few days. 


> Un comité d'accueil
> 
> La ministre québécoise de l'Emploi et de la Solidarité sociale, Michelle Courchesne, a accueilli les premiers arrivants à l'aéroport Pierre-Elliott-Trudeau.
> 
> ...


http://radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/National/2006/07/21/001-arrivee-ressortissants.shtml


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I can't believe those emergency evacuees weren't removed from that war zone in a comfortable and stylish manner.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Macfury said:


> I can't believe those emergency evacuees weren't removed from that war zone in a comfortable and stylish manner.


Off track and not the point - but then again, you prefer to divert with little quips...
That's your style and, to be honest, makes Spec come off as a genius compared to your disingenuous postings.


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## NBiBooker (Apr 3, 2004)

I can't get over the whining by the left in Canada about the PM and this evacuation. 

A few quick points:The Harpers didn't tell the media why the were going to the cemetery. Read the Globe and Mail. Number two, AS, as for your snide comment about Laureen Harper not knowing her great-uncle, again, read the reports, she learned of him from her great-grandfather, who spoke about him. She's also the first person from the Teskey family to visit the grave. Stop being a jerk. 

Finally, AS, as for the Globe's piece on June 20, MacKay is right. It's slobby, unprofessional journalism to use a single unnamed source on such a huge story. It's also disgusting that the PMO didn't get a chance to respond.

Finally, as for this whole mess, what the hell are 50,000 Canadians doing in the Middle East? Unless one has lived under a rock for the last six years, it's pretty clear that it's a big ole powderkeg. No Canadian government has ever tried to evacuate that many civilians ever, in a short time frame in a war zone.

I'm sure they're learning lessons for the next time. Stop being an armchair expert and quit the self indulgent whinning.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Headline News: "Artist Series Declares Spec a Genius"

Despite the brevity of my comment, Booker understands my post precisely. Why can't you, AS?


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

NBiBooker said:


> I can't get over the whining by the left in Canada about the PM and this evacuation.


:clap: 

Most people have no clue about the kind of logistics that go into such an operation. It's not like buying a plane ticket or catching a cab.

This is a war zone. Imagine if one of our boats were sunk by one of Hezbullah's missiles. Precautions need to be taken.

This isn't an imminent situation for people in Lebanon. Israel isn't carpet bombing the place and the food and water have yet to run out. People just want out because they are scared and want to see their families.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> Imagine if one of our boats were sunk by one of Hezbullah's missiles.


no need to imagine 7 dead canadians because of Israeli artilery/missiles


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## NBiBooker (Apr 3, 2004)

Yeah, cause seven equals a 1000. Hello, wake up call. Regardless of which belligrent fires the rocket, if the ship goes down, so do a lot of people.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

NBiBooker said:


> Yeah, cause seven equals a 1000. Hello, wake up call. Regardless of which belligrent fires the rocket, if the ship goes down, so do a lot of people.


you're absolutely correct

7 REAL deaths hardly equal 1000 theoretical ones


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

NBiBooker said:


> A few quick points:The Harpers didn't tell the media why the were going to the cemetery.


Then don't bring the media along if it's a private moment. "They" wanted to make a big show of it. Of course, you bring up the issue of trying to control the media again.... 



NBiBooker said:


> Read the Globe and Mail. Number two, AS, as for your snide comment about Laureen Harper not knowing her great-uncle, again, read the reports, she learned of him from her great-grandfather, who spoke about him. She's also the first person from the Teskey family to visit the grave.


Such drama! Such close family ties! Such a photo op!




NBiBooker said:


> Finally, AS, as for the Globe's piece on June 20, MacKay is right. It's slobby, unprofessional journalism to use a single unnamed source on such a huge story. It's also disgusting that the PMO didn't get a chance to respond.


He responded well enough in his actions - he re-allocated personal because he diverted the plane, he re-tasked, he imposed his will to arrange a photo-op. 
How efficient was it? Not very: it was a PR stunt that backfired. Once again, his concern was not about Canada or Canadians but his PR.

Ironically, you'd like the PMO to responds? He does not respond, he issues press releases - where have you been?


Of course Mackay did say 'false statement' is 'completely untrue' - so I guess he's saying it is true? Sometimes, I get the impression that the man makes no sense in either official languages..

If we are to believe the PMO's office the first number of the evacuees was 4500 a day, then it was 2000 a day and now it is 1200 a day. 

As for a plan


> Mr. MacKay said again Thursday that there is a plan to get citizens out but he refused to elaborate.


This usually means, I have no clue what I'm doing and I'm waiting for my orders from Sandra...



NBiBooker said:


> Finally, as for this whole mess, *what the hell are 50,000 Canadians doing in the Middle East?* Unless one has lived under a rock for the last six years, it's pretty clear that it's a big ole powderkeg.


Some of ones that were blow to little pieces and had to be picked up with tweezers were on vacation. 


As for being in the Middle East, maybe you would like to ask one of the 24 Americans the PM took home with him?


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> Off track and not the point - but then again, you prefer to divert with little quips...
> That's your style and, to be honest, makes Spec come off as a genius compared to your disingenuous postings.


Are you sure ehMac is the place for you?


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## MLeh (Dec 23, 2005)

Real deaths ... and keeping perspective:

Can anyone tell me how many people in Canada have died in automobile accidents since this whole thing started about 10 days ago? I bet it's more than 7. (I know we've had two automobile deaths in my small town that didn't even make the Vancouver papers.)

I'm not trying to sidetrack the issue, but anyone who has tried to organise a family get together or a wedding for a couple of hundred people looks at the number "50,000" and realises that it must be a logistical nightmare, especially as all the other nations are trying to do exactly the same thing for their 25,000 or so people that they're trying to evacuate. Very much a 'me first' scenario, and the local infrastructure isn't the best for providing support at the time. It must be a madhouse. 

It's so easy to sit in the comfort of your living room, butt in chair, and point fingers.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

ArtistSeries, here's your answer: 


> Six ships carrying passengers were not able to fully load before they had to leave port. A foreign affairs official in Ottawa said the ships have a narrow security window provided by the Israelis. Once that window closes, the ships have mere minutes to clear the port.


Looks like they need better preparation at the Beirut port possibly. Get papers checked ahead of time, etc. Maybe they need more man-power at the Beirut port, but then who wants to be sitting in a warzone.




NBiBooker said:


> Finally, as for this whole mess, what the hell are 50,000 Canadians doing in the Middle East? Unless one has lived under a rock for the last six years, it's pretty clear that it's a big ole powderkeg.


Alot of the 50,000 have dual citizenship and likely live there. They probably thought it was finally calming down with all the peace talks happening and Isreal removing settlements from the West Bank (or was it the Gaza Strip? I get the two mixed up). 

But I have to admit that there is a whole lot of whining from both Canadians and Lebanese about the evacuation instead of appreciation for being evacuated. It takes time to organize an evacuation half a world away with several countries being involved from a war zone with all it's infrastructure blown to bits. Plus you have to deal with Israel fleet blockading Lebanon - The captains the the ships evacuating the people don't want to get on Israel's bad side. Yes, the first ship of evacuaees had to go through alot of unexpected pain, alot had to do with other countries evacuating their citizens at the same time to the same port in Cyprus. They seemed to have learned from that now and have evacuated alot to Turkey where they have accomodations, food, water, medical care, etc....


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Vandave said:


> Most people have no clue about the kind of logistics that go into such an operation. It's not like buying a plane ticket or catching a cab.
> 
> This isn't an imminent situation for people in Lebanon. Israel isn't carpet bombing the place and the food and water have yet to run out. People just want out because they are scared and want to see their families.


The main criticism, if you notice, has been directed at the PMO for micromanaging the job and adding to the problems. He may of been thinking in altruistic terms, but it showed poor skills. 

As for the situation not being imminent - seems that cries for aid are already asked. Free market forces have already taken place and inflation on goods are astronomical....


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> Off track and not the point - but then again, you prefer to divert with little quips...
> That's your style and, to be honest, makes Spec come off as a genius compared to your disingenuous postings.


That is quite rich coming from you.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

New excuse.... It seems the reason for the botched evacuation is that the ambassador to Lebanon was a Liberal appointee - at least according to the government people accompanying the PM on the mercy flight.

31st July, 2006. Peter Mackay has been "promoted" to ambassador of Lebanon in a diplomatic move dubbed the "Gagliano manouvre".


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

HowEver said:


> Are you sure ehMac is the place for you?


methinks someone has a judge, jury and executioner complex


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

ArtistSeries said:


> The main criticism, if you notice, has been directed at the PMO for micromanaging the job and adding to the problems. He may of been thinking in altruistic terms, but it showed poor skills.
> .


Yes, that seems a valid critisism. You have to allow the people you have in the area make some of the decisions. You can't micro-mange everything from half a world away. His cabinet doesn't seem to trust any of the federal servants under them to do their job.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

used to be jwoodget said:


> New excuse.... It seems the reason for the botched evacuation is that the ambassador to Lebanon was a Liberal appointee - at least according to the government people accompanying the PM on the mercy flight.
> 
> 31st July, 2006. Peter Mackay has been "promoted" to ambassador of Lebanon in a diplomatic move dubbed the "Gagliano manouvre".


It's always a Liberals fault. 
And one day, MF may get his wish and it will be the motto of Canada....


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## Roosterboy (Jun 10, 2006)

*How Comfortable the Chair of Wisdom*

Well done to those who sit in air conditioned offices and rooms and debate the effectiveness of our government and our forces. Who quickly pass judgement over the public servants in harms way and so easily adopt the main stream media lines. Lets get a few things straight. 1. If anyone could have predicted this escalation with any certainty great, I need the numbers for Sat 649 draw, 2. The liberals are the only reason we have lost our effectiveness as a viable extension of foreign policy in this country (News flash 12 years no foreign policy means you start at the bottom when **** rolls down hill) 3. while I have great sympathy for "Canadains" trapped in Lebanon, if your summr vacation plans have always included warn torn regions of conflict the least of your problems are getting out I think your family stopping you from taking "spring break" in hell is a greater priority 4. I am sure that the press op Harper gained was really not as great as you might believe, when did the aircraft arrive in Ottawa? There were at least 2 larger Lebanese communities where he could have received a great profile had he choosen to arrive there (Montreal and Toronto) and lastly the PMs aircraft is his to do with as he requires in the interest of Canada, it is not called Air Canada One get your call signs correct and for those who have not served in the military, public service or NGO outside of Canada do your homework beofre you start on about things you have no reference to comment on. We are supposed to be one nation but each time I see the flavour become so regional in its slant on public events it is easy to see who still needs to be taken out behind the wood shed and have its ass tanned for being a spoiled brat. Lead, follow or get the f#$% out of the way.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Kosh said:


> Yes, that seems a valid critisism. You have to allow the people you have in the area make some of the decisions. You can't micro-mange(sic) everything from half a world away. His cabinet doesn't seem to trust any of the federal servants under them to do their job.


Thanks Kosh. Now I should turn on spell check...


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

ArtistSeries said:


> Now I should turn on spell check...


Off-topic, I hate spell checkers, especially at work where they tend to cause more problems than they are worth. They tend to indicate problems where there are none - people's names, project acronyms, computer related terms, company specific terms. I end up turning them off.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

ArtistSeries said:


> It's always a Liberals fault.
> And one day, MF may get his wish and it will be the motto of Canada....


*il faultum Liberaltum*

with some sort of blue eagle with a crushed big L in its talon


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

psst RoosterBoy - that spell check comment should apply to you also...

4- The PM landing in Montreal or Toronto would of been a PR disaster for him. Angry "measured response" mobs asking questions is not good TV footage for Air Marshall Steve. Air Canada One was in sarcasm. 

3- Lebanon was not "war torn" and certainly not Hell (until the big reconstruction/destruction party started last week). I don't see Israel being described in those terms - I should really talk to my travel agent again.

2- How can I forget: blame the Liberals for your ineptitude. *il faultum Liberaltum*

1- They did drop leaflets....


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

ArtistSeries said:


> It's always a Liberals fault.
> And one day, MF may get his wish and it will be the motto of Canada....


I was afraid you might criticize "Prime Minister Harpo, The Harpocrites and the NeoCons." Unlike you I spend very little time so fixated on one political party--instead investing in ideas and concepts over blind political allegiance. 

Face it AS, your precious party lost the election. Say it with me. It gets easier after the first year...


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> [MFer prefers] instead investing in ideas and concepts over blind political allegiance.


put that one up there with "the cheque's in the mail"


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Macfury said:


> I...--instead investing in ideas and concepts...


I should really have a macro for pasting this:
Off track and not the point - but then again, you prefer to divert with little quips...
That's your style and, to be honest, makes Spec come off as a genius compared to your disingenuous postings.

Interest rates must really be bad for you at the moment. 


care to comment on the subject at hand?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I believe AS, you were attemptintg to derail the thread again by mewling (weakly) "That everyone always blames the Liberals." 

At least you are dependable.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> I should really have a macro for pasting this:
> Off track and not the point - but then again, you prefer to divert with little quips...
> That's your style and, to be honest, makes Spec come off as a genius compared to your disingenuous postings.


Put it in your sig. It will help clarify your posts.


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## ErnstNL (Apr 12, 2003)

I was curious of what was going on at the Canadian Embassy in Lebanon.

Here's their home page:
http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/beirut/menu-en.asp


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## Mugatu (Mar 31, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> *il faultum Liberaltum*
> 
> with some sort of blue eagle with a crushed big L in its talon


Wait a second, I'm confused. Does the L stand for loser, Liberal or both?


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Mugatu: L is for Liberty.



> As for Mr. Harper's decision to divert his plane to Cyprus: “I told him I hope it is not a political move to erase the mistake that was committed towards us,” she said.
> 
> “I hope he was motivated by the humanity and the next few days will prove whether it was a political or humanitarian cause by being quicker, by being more effective and by being more diligent.”
> 
> ...


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060722.mideast-harper22/BNStory/National

Even when talking to Canadians, Harper has to clear his communications with Sandra.... That's one rigid line of communication...

No, this is not a jab at Harper, just the ridicule of the situation


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

Macfury said:


> instead investing in ideas and concepts over blind political allegiance.



Just so long as those ideas come from the Conservative Party right?


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

Honestly of what possible value was Harper going to bring by flying to Cyprus?

Is he trained in disaster management and relief? Seriously, there are people who work in our public sector who are trained for this sort of thing... Why wouldn't a responsible leader just get out of the way of the people who know what they are doing.

His role should have been to say... "make it happen" and then let people do what they need to do.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Da_j I see a further role for Harper, given Canada's circumstances. We have a huge number of people to move, and not many resources. A good role for the PM would be to, on the advice of the civil service, secure assistance from local countries (Greece?) and countries with more capability (U.S.?) to help evacuate Canadians once they are done with their own people.

Either way, I don't think any reasonable person is blaming Harper for this being extremely difficult. The blame is that, in a situation largely out of his control, control was exerted to the detriment of Canada's modest capabilities.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Beej said:


> Da_j I see a further role for Harper, given Canada's circumstances. We have a huge number of people to move, and not many resources. A good role for the PM would be to, on the advice of the civil service, secure assistance from local countries (Greece?) and countries with more capability (U.S.?) to help evacuate Canadians once they are done with their own people.


France offered it's help to Quebec.... I don't know what became of it. Maybe someone should have informed Chirac that our country's PM is Harper, not Charest.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> France offered it's help to Quebec.... I don't know what became of it. Maybe someone should have informed Chirac that our country's PM is Harper, not Charest.


I think it was just timing in that case but, if not, it wouldn't be the first time France rammed its nose into Canada's internal politics.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

After that seat at Unesco - you never know....

I haven't heard anything about services offered once in Country apart from Quebec. Now cynical AS says it's provincial vote buying... But are there services offered in Ontario or something Federal setup above and beyond routine services?


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

ArtistSeries said:


> After that seat at Unesco - you never know....
> 
> I haven't heard anything about services offered once in Country apart from Quebec. Now cynical AS says it's provincial vote buying... But are there services offered in Ontario or something Federal setup above and beyond routine services?


in Quebec those would be poutine services


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

Beej said:


> Da_j I see a further role for Harper, given Canada's circumstances. We have a huge number of people to move, and not many resources. A good role for the PM would be to, on the advice of the civil service, secure assistance from local countries (Greece?) and countries with more capability (U.S.?) to help evacuate Canadians once they are done with their own people.
> 
> Either way, I don't think any reasonable person is blaming Harper for this being extremely difficult. The blame is that, in a situation largely out of his control, control was exerted to the detriment of Canada's modest capabilities.


My response to this is... that Harper is not an experienced diplomat. We have very competent people in our foreign service who are better qualified at obtaining assistance from other countries. I agree that as Prime Minister this is something he could assist with, but his assistance could have been done just as easily from a phone in Ottawa while the professionals were doing what local work they could.

In any event, his little sojourn was ill conceived and it pretty much shows.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

da_jonesy said:


> My response to this is... that Harper is not an experienced diplomat. We have very competent people in our foreign service who are better qualified at obtaining assistance from other countries. I agree that as Prime Minister this is something he could assist with, but his assistance could have been done just as easily from a phone in Ottawa while the professionals were doing what local work they could.


That is how it works. Diplomats work out many aspects, including telling the PM how to approach it and learning the lay of the land, and the PM talks to another leader to make it a higher priority. The 'diplomats' can get a certain amount of traction, a nation's leader can raise the priority. And yes, none of this involves flying to Cyprus. Flying to Washington would have done more; but Canada's politics would not have favoured such a move. It is time for some serious phonin'.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

da_jonesy said:


> In any event, his little sojourn was ill conceived and it pretty much shows.


I think that Air Marshall Steve has done damage himself by raising the stakes of the evacuation. Raising the stakes in either a crass photo op or altruistic move, showed the faults in greater scrutiny. 

Of course this does not help.....


> A boatload of weary evacuees from Lebanon remained stranded aboard a docked ship for almost two hours because *Canadian officials slept through their arrival *early today.
> 
> Another passenger was also measured in his criticism of the greeting in Cyprus. What irked him most was the performance in Lebanon.
> He said Canadians had their eyes glued to Arabic-language TV stations that carried 24-hour evacuation instructions from other governments — and were continually frustrated as Canada remained absent from the Lebanese airwaves.


http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...l_pageid=968332188492&call_pagepath=News/News


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

...........
Said El-Haje was having none of his fellow passengers' negativity. Instead he was positively bursting with national pride.

He originally immigrated to Canada in 1979 but has spent the last eight years in Beirut. This week he slammed shut his apartment door for the last time, grabbed some cash, and promised his wife and children a better life in Ottawa.

So Canada screwed up the transfer at the port? Big deal, he says.
He said Canada will educate his children, treat them with dignity, and offer them peace and security for so many years to come that an early-morning snafu at a Mediterranean dock will one day seem like a laughable afterthought.

"Everybody makes mistakes. But compare the mistakes they make to the good that they do ... They have done everything for us," El-Haje said.
...........

And now you're delving into a level of detail that should be beyond the PM. Let's keep the criticism in context unless better information shows up. I know you didn't characterise this as a Harper criticism but, given your track record, you can see how that interpretation of your post has merit.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Beej said:


> And now you're delving into a level of detail that should be beyond the PM. Let's keep the criticism in context unless better information shows up. I know you didn't characterise this as a Harper criticism but, given your track record, you can see how that interpretation of your post has merit.


What you should write is that you are reading that.....
Have a look Beej - been very clear on what and why I have criticized Harper.

In the context of the article, you'll also read that journalist get on calling the Canadian officials to tell them that the ship was almost there.

-----
*They were so stunned by the early arrival that it took four phone calls from the media to convince them they should send buses and diplomatic staff to gather the evacuees.*


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> Have a look Beej - been very clear on what and why I have criticized Harper.


Whether you like it or not, or want to deal with it or not, the context of your posting history does matter, and it should. This is not a difficult concept.

This is an extremely difficult matter but, outside of PMO interference, if you are going to criticise bureaucratic failure within the context of the monumental and sudden task given to them, then you have to look at what built the bureaucracy.

So let's keep it to instances of the info-control etc. interfering in a process largely outside their control, otherwise you will draw in fair Liberal criticism, and you wouldn't want to do that, now would you?  You wouldn't want to unfairly smear people for things set in place long before, would you? This is a mess largely due to circumstance with no one to fault. If your thread is meant to separate fault from circumstance, fine. But set the criteria too wide and you won't just get a Con-bashing session. Not that you want one.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Beej said:


> This is an extremely difficult matter but, outside of PMO interference, if you are going to criticise bureaucratic failure within the context of the monumental and sudden task given to them, then you have to look at what built the bureaucracy.


Please little Beejee - having reporters call you repeatedly and you hitting the snooze button is not relevant to your argument. So within your precious context, yes - relevant. 
It's like you waking up late on morning and blaming your mom because she did not give you that Mickey mouse clock radio you wanted 4 x-mas's ago. 

Is this a logistical nightmare - have said so many time. 




Beej said:


> So let's keep it to instances of the info-control etc. interfering in a process largely outside their control, otherwise you will draw in fair Liberal criticism, and you wouldn't want to do that, now would you?  You wouldn't want to unfairly smear people for things set in place long before, would you? This is a mess largely due to circumstance with no one to fault. If your thread is meant to separate fault from circumstance, fine. But set the criteria too wide and you won't just get a Con-bashing session. Not that you want one.


Beejee fire away: il faultum Liberaltum
I love connections and can't wait to see you connect the dots to that little incident.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> Please little Beejee - having reporters call you repeatedly and you hitting the snooze button is not relevant to your argument. So within your precious context, yes - relevant.
> It's like you waking up late on morning and blaming your mom because she did not give you that Mickey mouse clock radio you wanted 4 x-mas's ago.
> 
> Is this a logistical nightmare - have said so many time.
> ...


To quote AS:
Off track and not the point - but then again, you prefer to divert with little quips...
That's your style and, to be honest, makes Spec come off as a genius compared to your disingenuous postings.


It's amazing how silly your reaction is to my post. If something dares to challenge your hate-on, in any way, you often do this. You even added the use of, "Beejee" to signal your limited ability to respond. Your harpocrisy isn't so amazing. It is to be expected. Continue building your body of work. 

Remember:
Whether you like it or not, or want to deal with it or not, the context of your posting history does matter, and it should. This is not a difficult concept.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Beej said:


> It's amazing how silly your reaction is to my post. If something dares to challenge *your hate-on*, in any way, you often do this. You even added the use of, "Beejee" to signal your limited ability to respond. Your *harpocrisy* isn't so amazing. It is to be expected. Continue building your body of work.


What bug has been up you AS? (chuckle-chuckle)
Pray tell Beej, what *hate-on* would that be? Insinuations are great but care to elaborate here? Or will it be more Beejisms?
Seems that you have appointed yourself, what was that term again "judge, jury and executioner" 

I responded, the problem seems to be that you are looking for something else. 
Or is the Beej trying to control and micro-direct my responses to some framework he is only aware of?

Get over it.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

You may want to read my posts before angrily errupting along various established routes and condemning me to your empty wrath.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

I see why you nicknamed him Air Marshall Steve. http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=586d0eba-a809-4ae5-b8e0-5c396655543b&k=44728

He deserves that name. He nabbed someone wanted by the RCMP.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

AS: Your unnatural infatuation with a certain political party is well known to everyone on EhMac. Your latest set of rants in this thread don't even have the usual coherence we might expect of you. To elaborate: you swing wildly from the particular to the general in your arguments. When it appears that the Liberal Party of Canada is even being held partially to account for a problem, you revert to taunting, then running. A little decorum please.


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## MLeh (Dec 23, 2005)

Apparently the ships they are using have to be hired - and right now it's 'highest bidder wins'. 

(Profiteering from armed conflict is as old as conflict itself.)

We could get into partisan politics now: I think Paul Martin could have possibly helped by diverting a couple of his ships?


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

MF: I'll make it simple for you. Harper took Air Canada One for a little spin in the hopes of getting a photo op. His little diversion exposed his management style (micromanaging and image control). His airlift should be a farce even to his admirers even if his intention were altruistic. 
What was a difficult situation should of been left to the "experts". 
Issuing Press Releases on the capability of the rescue operation and then revising them on a daily basis to a more realistic number.

I noted two particular incidents.
I think that there is ridicule in asking someone to email them when they are talking face to face. And what are the chances of his answering? Slim to none I bet. 
The other is the ship's greeting party being phoned 4 times by journalists to inform them of the arrival.

Now, were have I criticized the rescue operation in itself? I'm not talking about PM Steve's side trip.....


I could start using a MF technique critiquing other post instead of the ideas.
We have in this thread as MF contributions
- Why did you post RevMatt?
http://www.ehmac.ca/showpost.php?p=427751&postcount=24

- MACSPECTRUM, I just want to be contradictory without contribution
http://www.ehmac.ca/showpost.php?p=427759&postcount=26

Post #33 did have some relevance to your side-track with MS, but not to the thread

- I could ostensibly include post #35. But it was irrelevant and snide. 
http://www.ehmac.ca/showpost.php?p=427820&postcount=35

- I prefer to be obtuse and indirect - I don't like stating what I think directly...
http://www.ehmac.ca/showpost.php?p=427826&postcount=38

- Let's bring the Liberals into this for no reason and divert again.
http://www.ehmac.ca/showpost.php?p=427882&postcount=58

- I'm going to derail this again. 
http://www.ehmac.ca/showpost.php?p=427892&postcount=61

And post #85
It's a little better.

So MF, why do you want to bring the Liberals so badly into this again? What have they done in relationship to Steve's side trip? How can you blame the Libs for deciding that a photo op (or altruistic rescue mission) is more important than letting the experts to do their jobs instead of cater to a PM in time of crisis? 

How can the Libs be responsible for Pete taking time out of his day to write to the Globe and Mail instead of managing the crisis? 


Decorum indeed....


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

MLeh said:


> Apparently the ships they are using have to be hired - and right now it's 'highest bidder wins'.
> 
> (Profiteering from armed conflict is as old as conflict itself.)


I heard that also. 




MLeh said:


> We could get into partisan politics now: I think Paul Martin could have possibly helped by diverting a couple of his ships?


He's too busy having them reflagged in Libya.  
Also, they are container ships - he'd really be accused of transporting human cargo...

Here's my partisan quip  - maybe the Liberals can reissue Stockwell Day's news release on Katrina with very little wording changes.


> “The fact of the matter is that there was no definitive plan to remove Canadians before Katrina hit and now there are Canadians stranded and fighting for their lives in the abyss that once was the *Gulf Coast*,” said Day.
> 
> The Canadian Government has so far failed to ensure the safe return of Canadians stranded by Hurricane Katrina.
> 
> Despite the consistency with which Canadians travel abroad, there is apparently no plan set in place by the Canadian Government to have Canadians removed pre-emptively from areas where a natural disaster is knowingly forthcoming.


http://www.stockwellday.com/sept205press.htm


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

I have to agree with AS. This was a photo op nothing more. His plane was never filled. If he wasn't so conserned about the photo op than why was his ugly mug plastered on every newspaper's front page? Anmy idiot could have told him that it would look bad. He might as well have been in millitary unform on a destroyer and a mission accomplished banner. I think it reeks of opportunism and is innapropriate in a situatiion like this and I am not a Liberal. Never voted Liberal and probably never will.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I think that if the plane rescue was a pure photo-op then it is a personal failing on the part of Mr. Harper. What I'm not enjoying is that idea that all things that happen while a Conservative is in power are Conservative failings. When Beej even remotely suggested that some of the institutional problems in Canadian civil service might be responsible and thus partially the fault of the previous government, we get a rant.


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

Macfury said:


> I think that if the plane rescue was a pure photo-op then it is a personal failing on the part of Mr. Harper. What I'm not enjoying is that idea that all things that happen while a Conservative is in power are Conservative failings. When Beej even remotely suggested that some of the institutional problems in Canadian civil service might be responsible and thus partially the fault of the previous government, we get a rant.


Wait a sec... The civil service are paid professionals. Harper's position is what? (other than temporary). 

We went over this before, Harper is not a skilled crisis management expert (unless I missed that in his bio). As a leader his job is to make a decision and then say... make it happen. There was no reason for him to be on that plane. Everything he needed to do could have be done with him in Ottawa.


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

Macfury said:


> What I'm not enjoying is that idea that all things that happen while a Conservative is in power are Conservative failings.


Okay, for the time being they're just Harper failings. :heybaby:


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Macfury said:


> When Beej even remotely suggested that some of the institutional problems in Canadian civil service might be responsible and thus partially the fault of the previous government, we get a rant.


That was partially my mistake. I forgot the required ritual of dancing around a Canadian values bonfire while screaming about every flaw, perceived and real, ever committed, hinted at or dreamed up by any member of any remotely conservative party, past, present and future anywhere in the world.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

It would of been very easy add comments on the lack of resources and underfunding. These are not the same as an opportunistic populists photo-op and dealing with this crisis.
I don't think anyone expected instant evacuation. 

Centralize Keystone Cops control is not the same as institutional rot.

da_jonesy: "make it happen" is often perceived and sold as happening.


> MacKay said there were an estimated 2,000 to 3,000 Canadians trapped in the south and that efforts were continuing to get them out.
> 
> MacKay said the government has managed to pinpoint the locations of many of them, however, he declined to give specific details on government plans, citing security concerns.


http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060723/mackay060723/20060723?hub=World

I'm actually curious about Pete's secret plan and efforts that are being done.


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