# One of my students stole my iPod



## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

Yup. There was a period of about 30mins yesterday when it could've happened, and I was either IN THE ROOM, or in the next room, which is connected. It was on my desk, wrapped up with my cell phone and some papers in a t-shirt. Only someone who knew it was there would've taken it.

The class in question had only 9 students in it. They were all searched except two, but this was after a lunch period, where they might've had the chance to get it to someone or put it somewhere else.

We got on the security cameras, but we're still not done going through everything. We are following each of the 9 students from 10:00am to 1pm. It takes a while. And it makes my stomach turn knowing that a kid I teach and help on a daily basis would do this. Maybe they need the cash and maybe they can't afford an iPod. But I saved for months and sold some things to be able to get it, so it's really upsetting.

I did the normal things - filed a police report with the serial #, gave the serial # to Apple, searched every student in the class that followed, talked to everyone in the class in question except two people (it was last period and we didn't get to them in time).

Today we're going to follow up with all the students and finish the security tape viewings. I am also offering a $50 reward for information. There is at least one other person in the class who knows who stole it, and it's a small town. Hopefully something will trickle down the pipe.

Anyways, I'm really upset, and it's two fold... I'm upset that a $500 item is now gone (and I'm actually still paying off some of that on my Future Shop card), and I'm upset that a student would do this. I teach in a rural area with small towns and generally good people. Theft is not a huge issue, but it is to me now and I'll be changing my ways. I hate not trusting my students, but it's what has to be done I guess.


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## NBiBooker (Apr 3, 2004)

That sucks.

Don't give in to the anger or the mistrust of your students. I hope your iPod is recovered.


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

NBiBooker said:


> That sucks.
> 
> Don't give in to the anger or the mistrust of your students. I hope your iPod is recovered.


Oh I haven't. I still plan to be the same with them. I get along great with 99% of my students and I go out of my way to help them, get them recognized, get them scholarships, put on events (musical, battle of the bands, coffee houses, variety shows, and four class trips so far in my first year of teaching), and so forth.

I have not lost faith in them, but I've come back down to a bit of reality I think.


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## madgunde (Mar 10, 2006)

That sucks, but that's why they put locks on desk drawers. If yours has one, use it. I had a hard drive stolen out of my drawer at work. Thing that sucks most is it wasn't my hard drive. A friend of mine gave it to me to test because he was having issues with it. I tested it (worked fine) and put it in my unlocked desk drawer to give to him later. Next day it was gone.

Worst part is I work for a large financial company (let's just say it's the largest one) and everyone gets paid quite well. It's sad.


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## apple=god (May 21, 2005)

Thats really to bad but, Such is life, i think that whoever the student is needs to be talked to but not yelled at. Just talk to the parents and try to be as understanding aspossible... what grade are you teaching, whoever it is is most likely eating themselves up in side. Unless they have no consciencse in which case we should probably get him to a doctor.


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## JPL (Jan 21, 2005)

HUMM seems all that nice kid gloves handling of these kids just isn't providing the results we had been promised. Perhaps some of the old fashioned methods need to be looked at again. Yes I know it isn't politically correct.


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## Pylonman (Aug 16, 2004)

Wow, that really hurts. You sound like a great teacher and a mentor figure for the students. 
As you mentioned, you had talked to your students, but I suggest you keep the pressure on. Maybe discuss with the students about trust and how it's the foundation of every realationship, marriage, friendship, security, etc. I'm not good with words, but I'm sure if you put a spin on it, the person(s) reponsible will see the result and maybe turn it in.


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## TrevX (May 10, 2005)

JPL said:


> HUMM seems all that nice kid gloves handling of these kids just isn't providing the results we had been promised. Perhaps some of the old fashioned methods need to be looked at again. Yes I know it isn't politically correct.


I have to agree here. If all he gets is a talking to then what has he learned? That stealing things has no major consequences. Put him up on charges, a permanent stain on his record will make a wonderful learning experience when he tries to get a job that requires a security check.

Trev


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

TrevX said:


> I have to agree here. If all he gets is a talking to then what has he learned? That stealing things has no major consequences. Put him up on charges, a permanent stain on his record will make a wonderful learning experience when he tries to get a job that requires a security check.
> 
> Trev


Yep. Ever since corporal punishment was banned in schools, student behaviour has gone downhill. This is but one more example. Do gooders win again.


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## kna (Feb 14, 2006)

TrevX said:


> I have to agree here. If all he gets is a talking to then what has he learned? That stealing things has no major consequences. Put him up on charges, a permanent stain on his record will make a wonderful learning experience when he tries to get a job that requires a security check.
> 
> Trev


Id have to disagree here. If he is a good kid, and tries hard ins chool, dont ruin his life because of one little thing like this. Maybe he just wasnt thinking clearly, or someone pressured him into it, while still not the right thing to do I dont think he should be punished by getting a criminal record. If the kid comes from a good family, then Im sure talking to him and his parents would definatly make him understand he did something wrong, and he probably wont do it again.

Now on the other hand, if he's the kind of kid that doesnt give a darn about school, his parents dont give a sh** about his doings, and he would go ahead and do it again, then maybe it might be right to turn him into the police.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

SINC said:


> Yep. Ever since corporal punishment was banned in schools, student behaviour has gone downhill. This is but one more example. Do gooders win again.


What nonsense. Please delineate your experience with crime statistics. Even while the reporting of crimes has gone up, actual crime rates have gone down over the last 20 to 40 years.

Perhaps you'd like to live in an age where sexual assaults were practically never reported because only 3-5% of the charges resulted in convictions, or when students could be had by their teachers without fear of repercussion, when people turned a blind eye to thefts like the one in this thread (perhaps some kid will get a "talking to"). Perhaps you want hard-fisted justice meted out by ruthless dominators. I'm glad we don't live in either scenario.

And you're a reporter, right? A gossip column, perhaps?


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

maybe crime rates have gone down but the snotiness, mouthiness and disobedience of children has gone down. I am only 27 and when I was in school we didn't start smoing / drinking / doing other adult things until 16. Now there are 9 and 10 year olds have sex, smoking, drinking, drugs.

It is clear that if these kids had a got a good whoopin' now and then this wouldn't happen. I don't mean abusing them but keeping them in check. If anyone can't see that then you are part of the problem.

Scott


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

RunTheWorldOnMac said:


> maybe crime rates have gone down but the snotiness, mouthiness and disobedience of children has gone down. I am only 27 and when I was in school we didn't start smoing / drinking / doing other adult things until 16. Now there are 9 and 10 year olds have sex, smoking, drinking, drugs.
> 
> It is clear that if these kids had a got a good whoopin' now and then this wouldn't happen. I don't mean abusing them but keeping them in check. If anyone can't see that then you are part of the problem.
> 
> Scott


What crawled up inside your behind and died? I think teens are more responsible than ever. It's too bad the shrinking minority of kids who do bad things dominate your head and therefore you stereotype them that way. So what giving them a good spanking is the solution? No, communication and more freedom is, because when teens feel like they can be open and honest and have nothing to be rebelious against, they are indeed responsible young beings. It's the media that's the problem bringing smut to prime time television and it's conservative traditionalist people like you who think spanking and punishing rather than educating and communicating about these things is the answer, so frankly go crawl back into the past or something. If I can remember correctly sex and drugs were certainly part 80s and 90s as well, even dating back to the hippie age of the 60s. Look at Korea they pretty much think the same as you abusing their children and they still have a underage smoking drinking and sex problem. Look at the US even they have way more religious conservative whatever people like you and have capital punishment and yet they have a rampant underage problem, so overall I'm really proud of how Canadians are raising our children, I really am. And no, 9 and 10 year olds aren't having sex and smoking and drinking, perhaps 1 in 1000 or 10000 or something, perhaps 13-14 year olds maybe but a surprising large portion of teens are abstaining from these things until they're at least in their senior years or higher. Even then 16 is a bit young don't you think? I started smoking and drinking in grade 11 and looking in hindsight I wish I hadn't (especially the smoking part), but I turned out ok.

Overall I don't think child and teen behaviour is going downhill, it is indeed going uphill, just that some of you are a bit too old to remember, that's all.

Peace


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## JPL (Jan 21, 2005)

dona83 said:


> What crawled up inside your behind and died? I think teens are more responsible than ever. It's too bad the shrinking minority of kids who do bad things dominate your head and therefore you stereotype them that way. So what giving them a good spanking is the solution? No, communication and more freedom is, because when teens feel like they can be open and honest and have nothing to be rebelious against, they are indeed responsible young beings. It's the media that's the problem bringing smut to prime time television and it's conservative traditionalist people like you who think spanking and punishing rather than educating and communicating about these things is the answer, so frankly go crawl back into the past or something. If I can remember correctly sex and drugs were certainly part 80s and 90s as well, even dating back to the hippie age of the 60s. Look at Korea they pretty much think the same as you abusing their children and they still have a underage smoking drinking and sex problem. Look at the US even they have way more religious conservative whatever people like you and have capital punishment and yet they have a rampant underage problem, so overall I'm really proud of how Canadians are raising our children, I really am. And no, 9 and 10 year olds aren't having sex and smoking and drinking, perhaps 1 in 1000 or 10000 or something, perhaps 13-14 year olds maybe but a surprising large portion of teens are abstaining from these things until they're at least in their senior years or higher. Even then 16 is a bit young don't you think? I started smoking and drinking in grade 11 and looking in hindsight I wish I hadn't (especially the smoking part), but I turned out ok.
> 
> Overall I don't think child and teen behaviour is going downhill, it is indeed going uphill, just that some of you are a bit too old to remember, that's all.
> 
> Peace



What a load of bleeding heart drivel!


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

*"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."*




> Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato, according to William L. Patty and Louise S. Johnson, Personality and Adjustment, p. 277 (1953).
> 
> The quote is commonly attributed to Socrates, but apparently there is no conclusive evidence that he actually said it. The Library of Congress notes that this quote is "attributed to Socrates by Plato"...
> 
> ...


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

RunTheWorldOnMac said:


> maybe crime rates have gone down but the snotiness, mouthiness and disobedience of children has gone down. I am only 27 and when I was in school we didn't start smoing / drinking / doing other adult things until 16. Now there are 9 and 10 year olds have sex, smoking, drinking, drugs.
> 
> It is clear that if these kids had a got a good whoopin' now and then this wouldn't happen. I don't mean abusing them but keeping them in check. If anyone can't see that then you are part of the problem.
> 
> Scott


Today's youth have no respect for others and use violence at will to get their way.

Witness the attacks on bus drivers becoming more common and roving gangs of thugs routinely beat up anyone who dares cross them.

They need a smack upside the head and that starts in school. Their behaviour has indeed deteriorated and it shows.

When I meet groups out for a walk, they routinely force me off the sidewalk. If I dared stand my ground, I would pay the consequences, senior or not.

That is the reality.


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## mrt_mcfly (Oct 25, 2005)

HowEver makes a good point: although it may seem like things are worse now, they really aren't. media shows us all the horrible crime that was once unknown or unreported. people now report crimes that were once not taken seriously (ie: crimes against women and minorities). 

there are also more people...toronto, for example, is much larger and has many more people than 50 years ago. more people = more crime. as smaller towns grow, they see an increase of violent crimes. this isn't because the "bad element" is moving in, but because more and more people are in that town.

to say there was no crime back in the day is like saying there were no homosexuals.

i do agree that there seems to be a lack of respect by young people...media isn't (completely) at fault, neither is satan. the parents are to blame. parents seem to rather be friends with their child, than their parent. i don't know if it's laziness or selfishness, but parents don't seem to care enough.

there are a lot of reasons, none of them really good, for stealing from a teacher. but then again, i have friends who are teachers that have been assulted by their students...there's no good reason for that either.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

SINC said:


> Today's youth have no respect for others and use violence at will to get their way.
> 
> Witness the attacks on bus drivers becoming more common and roving gangs of thugs routinely beat up anyone who dares cross them.
> 
> ...


They're still a small minority, and they always seem to be redefining violence, for them they don't need to be smacked by their parents, they need to be sent to rehabilitation or if all else, jail, let the judicial system deal with them. I don't like them anymore than any of you, I just don't appreciate that the majority of the young people who do strive for good grades, participate in extracurricular activities, volunteer, do good things for the community (or just don't do any bad things in the community) are also being accused of being bad people.

Okay scenario, my dad's girlfriend is pretty cool, my brother seems particularily close to them. One day my dad was in a bizzatchy mood and decides to scold at her over lost house keys. My brother (17) found out about this and scolded at my dad for a good ten minutes about how he was treating her like s#!t and disrespecting someone who does nothing but care for us, is my brother bad for scolding my dad? I really don't think so, it's about EQUALITY and RESPECT, my dad seriously didn't have a right to go off on her like that and I salute my brother for realizing that he was the only one who can set my dad straight.


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## kna (Feb 14, 2006)

SINC said:


> Today's youth have no respect for others and use violence at will to get their way.
> 
> Witness the attacks on bus drivers becoming more common and roving gangs of thugs routinely beat up anyone who dares cross them.
> 
> ...


Im am 15 years old, and Im not a geek at school, but that doesnt mean Im a die hard punk little pos that sneaks up to your car in the night and steals stuff out of it, or if Im with my friends on the street I dont stare ahead and ignore people forcing them to get out of the way. Id definatly have to disagree with all this "ALL TEENS ARE BAD" bull. Looking at my school, there are probably less then 5 people that would ever consider breaking into someones house, or mugging someone. Thats out of 472 kids, and we have a lot of "fresh outta the woods: students here. I actually do not think any of them would do something like that. But Im sure maybe two of them would because I dont know everything that goes on in peoples lives, but from my perspective most kids my age, are fairly polite to adults and other people. Its the 15 year olds that steal cars, think there a bunch of tough thugs when there in groups, and mug people for something to do. And Id also like to mention its not just the kids its their parents also, who dont control them, and they where born 40+ years ago, so technically, its not just people from this age is it? Most of the "bad" kids at my school, or that I know of, although there arent many, have *******, un educated parents who dont give two darns about what their kids do. Agian pointing that its not just the kids of today, but the people of your time are just as bad.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

SINC said:


> *Today's youth have no respect for others and use violence at will to get their way.*
> 
> They need a *smack upside the head* and that starts in school. Their behaviour has indeed deteriorated and it shows.


How intelligent. And this is one shining example of the leadership today's youth can follow by. :clap:


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## StephP (Aug 3, 2005)

That really sucks...

My dad is a teacher at a high school and over the weekend (as he usually does) left his laptop (locked to his desk drawer) and projector (screwed into ceiling) and was locked in the classroom on the second floor. Comes in on Monday to find part of desk smashed to steal the laptop and the projector is gone from the ceiling with the wires still hanging. He figures that someone (likely a student) climbed up a pipe and through the window. The laptop/projector weren't personally his, belonged to the school, but still sucks.


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## M. Warren (Jan 4, 2002)

kna said:


> If the kid comes from a good family, then Im sure talking to him and his parents would definatly make him understand he did something wrong, and he probably wont do it again.
> 
> Now on the other hand, if he's the kind of kid that doesnt give a darn about school, his parents dont give a sh** about his doings, and he would go ahead and do it again, then maybe it might be right to turn him into the police.


If someone stole, they should be punished (school-level punishment preferred, like a failure or something if you can do that). No question. 

But I don't understand how being from a good family plays into it at all. The kid from the "good" family is going to bounce right back from whatever charges he catches. I'm more concerned about the one who doesn't have a solid support unit at home. Its easy for them to say **** the world, when the world's already cast them aside as worthless. It's just like the zero tolerance rules which kick 15 year olds out of all schools altogether. What possible good is a 15 year old going to get into with nothing to do all day. It just spawns more trouble. 

I've grown up with enough "good family" people who went to ****, as well as kids who were up to no damn good most times and turned way things around. Its the minds that teachers tend to write off that have the potential for the most cultivating.


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## zarquon (May 24, 2005)

SINC said:


> They need a smack upside the head and that starts in school. Their behaviour has indeed deteriorated and it shows.


That starts at HOME, not in school. Teachers are there to teach, not to babysit.

Z.


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

I'm not going to respond to each of the posts that I've disagreed with, I'll simply offer my own opinions.

Unfortunately, statistics are not an accurate portrayal of whether crime by minors has gone up or down. My example: I witnessed a few kids (approximate age 14-15) who were openly drinking in public in the grassy area in front of the entrance to Canada's Wonderland. My then gf and our respective kids were having a picnic lunch there as I've done almost since the park opened way back when. Both Wonderland Security and Police approached these kids and most behaved typically of getting caught. No different than when I was there age. They were petrified of being in trouble, their parents finding out, etc.

However one youth actually stood up to even the Police as if he was challenging them to actually do something. They didn't and my guess is that it's a waste of time for them because of the young offender act. We asked the Security and Police later about it and they say the most that they can do is to take away their daily pass and escort them off of the grounds. 

I agree with the young poster who said that it is probably 5% or less of their school's population who behave in the worst ways. This seems to be an accurate number. I don't believe that all kids are bad, most are great. However one problem exists, the penalty for disobeying the law for minors is not the same as it is for an adult. 

However I do agree that a kid shouldn't have their live ruined, or have to pay for one mistake for the rest of their life. But I do agree that some form of punishment is in order. Why obey the law if the punishment is non-existant?

Do I believe in corporal punishment? No. 

Do I believe that parents should be responsible for the behaviour of their minor children. Yes, to some extent.

Do I agree that Teachers are not their to babysit. Yes. 

Do I believe that parents are not taking the same effort to raise their children? Yes, in this day of two parent salaries needed to pay for this and for that something has to give. The comment has been made over and over that some parents are too busy trying to give their kids as much as they can that they haven't got the time to give them a little attention.

Do I believe that some of the lack of respect shown by some kids today is a reflection of their parents? Yes. 

Do I have an answer? No, I wish I did. But allowing those who want to break the law to do so, knowing that they will not be punished in any way is not the right answer. Allowing parents to shrug their shoulders and say that they don't know where little Johnny or Sally went wrong is not the right answer either.

My 2 cents...


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Well said Steve. Well said.


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

Dona,

I think you need to take another look past your nose and see the rest of the world. I am young; 27 and from the time I was 20 until now I fully saw kids getting worse and doing things we never did until are later teens. Drugs, sex, etc. When I say kids I mean under 12. I am not talking one or 2 kids either many. I live in Kanata (Ottawa; and no I'm not a Sens fan) and this place is bad for that; Ottawa. Perhaps you are to nieve to think that their are bigger problems. I do agree that it all starts at home; it truly does. Parents don't give their gives enough love and essentially send them out knowing what is right. A little discipline used correctly doesn't hurt. I may have flown through highshool in a pshychadelic haze but I knew to treat women with respect, not to go around beating people up for no reason, not to steal, etc. And I never did, and I got spanked. Kept me in check.

Scott


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

just make parents financially responible for their children's actions until they reach age of majority
i bet parents take a much keener interest then


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

> > Don't give in to the anger or the mistrust of your students...
> 
> 
> Oh I haven't. I still plan to be the same with them.


I guess the 8 innocent kids who you had searched feel really warm and fuzzy about you. I'm sure there were thefts by kids I went to school with, but no teacher ever had the audacity to search me as a consequence. 

It stinks that someone stole your iPod, but it stinks just as much that nobody here seems to have a problem with a teacher abusing his authority in this manner.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

okcomputer said:


> I did the normal things - filed a police report with the serial #, gave the serial # to Apple, searched every student in the class that followed, talked to everyone in the class in question except two people (it was last period and we didn't get to them in time).





nxnw said:


> I guess the 8 innocent kids who you had searched feel really warm and fuzzy about you. I'm sure there were thefts by kids I went to school with, but no teacher ever had the audacity to search me as a consequence.
> 
> It stinks that someone stole your iPod, but it stinks just as much that nobody here seems to have a problem with a teacher abusing his authority in this manner.


Only 7 students were searched, out of the 9. And it's possible that one of the other 2 was the culprit, so that only innocent students were searched. It is possible that one is guilty of aiding and abetting, since the OP said that one other student knows what happened.

These students do not have the right *not* to be searched when something goes missing. In fact, neither do most adults in this situation. You agree to different rules when you register at a school than when you are, say, driving your car (off school property) or walking down a street (not located on a campus or school grounds).

It may not be fair, but it's not illegal.


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## Puccasaurus (Dec 28, 2003)

I've already lost my stapler and scissors to students. "Oh, I'll bring it right back, sir"...yup, still waiting, kids. I'm careful with my personal property at school - everything's either locked up or in my department's office (where there's almost always someone around).

Sorry to hear about your iPod. Could happen to anyone and I think you did the right thing in involving the police and so on.


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

nxnw said:


> I guess the 8 innocent kids who you had searched feel really warm and fuzzy about you. I'm sure there were thefts by kids I went to school with, but no teacher ever had the audacity to search me as a consequence.
> 
> It stinks that someone stole your iPod, but it stinks just as much that nobody here seems to have a problem with a teacher abusing his authority in this manner.


Excuse me? Abusing my authority? You're really full of it. I did not personally search my students. The vice-principal and on-duty police officer searched them.

I'll also have you know that every single student was more than happy to open their bags and be searched. They felt extremely bad for me and have constantly asked if I have found it yet. They were willing to do whatever they could to prove they didn't steal anything and to help me out. They would do the same for their peers as well.

This has nothing to do with my authority whatsoever. If someone stole a STUDENT's iPod, you better believe the exact same procedure would be followed. When something goes missing, all students and staff in that class (and previous classes if relevant) are searched and questioned and no one is allowed to leave the room until that is complete.

I'm not sure where you get off saying something like that. What do you think SHOULD'VE happened? Should we just shrug our shoulders and say "Oh, too bad, something was stolen, but let's not inconvenience anyone by emptying their bag. That would be abusing our authority."

Get real, man. If someone had something stolen and I was in the class, I would more than gladly open by bag and be searched. I would still feel "warm and fuzzy" about my teacher, if that's how I felt beforehand because the situation would have no effect on how I felt about the person, especially since I would feel sympathetic to their situation.

Absuing my power... man, that cracks me up.


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

Okcomputer,

People like to jump to conclusions; they act without thinking. That's why the other "OS" is riddled with problems....he he he; Never waste an attack on microsnoft I always say....

Scott

ps: I know there is an "n" there...


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

okcomputer said:


> Excuse me? Abusing my authority? You're really full of it. I did not personally search my students. The vice-principal and on-duty police officer searched them.
> 
> I'll also have you know that every single student was more than happy to open their bags and be searched. They felt extremely bad for me and have constantly asked if I have found it yet. ...
> 
> Absuing my power... man, that cracks me up.


I don't know what subject you teach, but you are fooling yourself if you feel that innocent people don't mind being suspected of theft and are happy to have their privacy invaded. Further, you are in a position of authority — every one of those kids knows you have a significant amount of discretion respecting their marks, and antagonizing you could hurt them.

So, frankly, I don't think any one of them felt comfortable or secure enough to say, "you have no basis to suspect me of theft and nobody has any business going through my things" and you should not be surprised if their private thoughts about you are less generous than what they express openly.

I believe this was corrosive to your students' dignity and to your relationship with them, and think you would benefit from reflecting on this.


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

HowEver said:


> ...These students do not have the right *not* to be searched when something goes missing. In fact, neither do most adults in this situation. You agree to different rules when you register at a school than when you are, say, driving your car (off school property) or walking down a street (not located on a campus or school grounds).
> 
> It may not be fair, but it's not illegal.


Legal rights, such as the right against unreasonable search, grew out of ethical concepts of preserving an individuals dignity and security. Even if the search did not violate a legal right, it violated the underlying ethic.

I am curious, as well, why you believe that being on school property would diminish a person's legal rights. I can see circumstances where some imminent danger (had the stolen item been a gun, for instance) would make an indiscriminate search more reasonable, but I am not sure what other factors would apply here.


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

nxnw said:


> I don't know what subject you teach, but you are fooling yourself if you feel that innocent people don't mind being suspected of theft and are happy to have their privacy invaded. Further, you are in a position of authority — every one of those kids knows you have a significant amount of discretion respecting their marks, and antagonizing you could hurt them.
> 
> So, frankly, I don't think any one of them felt comfortable or secure enough to say, "you have no basis to suspect me of theft and nobody has any business going through my things" and you should not be surprised if their private thoughts about you are less generous than what they express openly.


What does it matter what subject I teach? Haha. You are grasping at straws here, man. If you honestly think I could get away with changing a students marks based on anything but their performance, you are sadly, sadly mistaken. I am not sure you even warrant a response since you have no grasp on the situation, the rights of students, the role of teachers, and so forth. I have to be completely accountable for every mark I give a student. They are all on our online system and I am often asked to provide the hard copies for marks for student audits and such.

I do not think that any of my students believe their marks come from anywhere but themselves. If you felt that way as a student, I am sorry to hear that. I'm not sure how old you are, but nowadays that sort of thing simply does not happen. Why? Because we are accountable for everything we do and every grade we give. We have taken courses on assessment, we are reminded of the codes of conduct, and we have meetings every other day about student progress, professional development, conduct, etc.

I also have to wonder why this bothers you so much... I teach in a rural area, and there is a "help thy neighbour" attitude throughout the Maritimes. These kids (and anyone else here) do not see a simple search as an intrusive breach of privacy. They see it as helping out the person in need. None of them were accused at all. Obviously you believe that because they were searched, that implies accusation. But you are searched every time to get on an airplane - are you being accused of something? No, no you're not.

The bottom line in my situation is this: a $500 item was stolen. There were qa small number of kids it could've been (door was locked during break, I was present during the other times, etc.). Those students were searched by a police officer and a vice-principal, completely following the rules of conduct in the situation.



> I believe this was corrosive to your students' dignity and to your relationship with them, and think you would benefit from reflecting on this.


Thanks for the holier-than-thou attitude. You're really full of it, you know that? I'll have you know that I have had honest conversations with several students about this. I also was NOT IN THE ROOM when the students were searched. I would've never known who was searched and who was not. The students were sent into the adjacent classroom one at a time, and all were willingly searched. They were not stripped down or anything of the sort. The procedure is less than what you go through at the airport or when you go to a club.

Somehow, you are attempting to make me out as this terrible person who put their students through a disgusting ordeal. These are students I am dedicating my working life to. Students who I care about greatly and for whom I do as much as I can. I don't remember the last time I had a lunch period free or didn't stay after school to put on an event or help a student out. Your 'allegations' and profound thoughts completely ignore that. They also show an immense about of ignorance.

The rights of students ARE different. Searches can occur at any point, randomly, or for a certain reason. And guess what? Teachers and staff are searched as well. It is a part of life now in schools. It is unfortunate, but there are a lot of cases of theft, drugs, and weapons in the schools, and until we can afford to put security checkpoints at every entrance and cameras in every room, we may have to complete a few searches of students and staff here and there. Do I want a "police state"? Hell no. Do I want the school to be an unsafe place? Of course not. I would love to hear your thoughts on how we can diminish theft, drugs, and weapons in schools, and how we can recover stolen items without searches and such. There is obviously a utopian answer coming up, and I await it with drool on my chin.


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## JAGflyer (Jan 10, 2005)

I can only suggest checking the serial number of each iPod you see being used that matches the description of your iPod.


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

The subject you teach might shed light on your sensitivity to the social and ethical implications of an indiscriminate search, which is the only reason I mentioned it. I am not suggesting that you would punish students who refused to cooperate and do not question your effort or dedication as a teacher. Just because you would not retaliate, however, does not mean your students feel secure that you won't. If they do not feel secure about your good faith (as you are, similarly, not secure about their honesty) they will feel coerced to cooperate in the search.



> The students *were sent* into the adjacent classroom one at a time, and all *were willingly searched*.


I have emphasized a couple of words there to highlight the inherent contradiction.

An indiscriminate search to ensure the safety of the school is one thing, but to find a stolen item is another. Likewise, the justification for searching passengers boarding an aircraft vastly outweighs the importance of looking for stolen property. Moreover, everyone knows their luggage will be searched when they fly, and *agrees* to submit it to a search as an incident of air travel. Air travel is a poor analogy for both of these reasons.

Things are stolen all the time. In offices, homes, businesses (and lots of schools), however, nobody would contemplate searching everyone present, not to mention detaining them and directing to another room for an individual search, as described above.


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

nxnw said:


> An indiscriminate search to ensure the safety of the school is one thing, but to find a stolen item is another. Likewise, the justification for searching passengers boarding an aircraft vastly outweighs the importance of looking for stolen property. Moreover, everyone knows their luggage will be searched when they fly, and *agrees* to submit it to a search as an incident of air travel. Air travel is a poor analogy.


You have emphasized "agrees", and this applies directly to the school situation. Students in schools must adhere to the rules and priviledges pertaining to being there. Any parent or student who may have issue with those rules could talk to a school/union/board/government representative. 

Again, I honestly believe my students had no problem being searched. I could tell you were in the law profession before I even checked your profile... You do not know me, nor the students and others involved in the situation. You are seeing the issue as black and white and painting pictures of me, the administration and the students.



> Things are stolen all the time. In offices, homes and businesses, however, nobody would contemplate searching everyone present, not to mention detaining them and directing to another room for an individual search, as described above.


So if something valuable was stolen in an office with 9 people, no one would be searched? I'm still not sure of your position as to theft. We should just shrug our shoulders and said "hmm, too bad"?


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## thejst (Feb 1, 2005)

http://www.ehmac.ca/showthread.php?t=29033&highlight=voice+recognition

OkComputer: Just a quick word if you are going to keep battling NXNW- read the above thread to see where this is going. 

It doesn't matter what happened. He's right, and there's no defending yourself, if you get my drift. 

IMO: Don't waste your time.


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

thejst said:


> OkComputer: Just a quick word if you are going to keep battling NXNW- read the above thread to see where this is going.
> 
> It doesn't matter what happened. He's right, and there's no defending yourself, if you get my drift.
> 
> IMO: Don't waste your time.


That's a foolish interjection. If you disagree with what I am saying here, it's too bad you were unable to respond to the merits of this discussion.


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

okcomputer said:


> You have emphasized "agrees", and this applies directly to the school situation. Students in schools must adhere to the rules and priviledges pertaining to being there.


That would be germane. I have not seen such a rule or any evidence that the searched students agreed to it, however. I would also have a serious issue with such a rule if it pushed the envelope too far.


> So if something valuable was stolen in an office with 9 people, no one would be searched? I'm still not sure of your position as to theft. We should just shrug our shoulders and said "hmm, too bad"?


I cannot imagine having my assistant or associate searched if my iPod were stolen. Like I said, similar thefts happen all the time. It stinks, but it does not mean that we are not restricted in our means of recovering the item by other ethical imperatives.

There are competing ethical imperatives that can not always be reconciled. In those cases, the result can be unsatisfactory.


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## thejst (Feb 1, 2005)

nxnw said:


> That's a foolish interjection. If you disagree with what I am saying here, it's too bad you were unable to respond to the merits of this discussion.



The fact is is that I Don't come to this site to read about what a self-important dink you are. Take it to the 'Everything Else' part of the site if you want to wank about what you think you know. 

Hokay?
and **** off.


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## harzack86 (Jan 30, 2005)

nxnw said:


> TI cannot imagine having my assistant or associate searched if my iPod were stolen. Like I said, similar thefts happen all the time. It stinks, but it does not mean that we are not restricted in our means of recovering the item by other ethical imperatives.


This is soo cool, I'm going to start taking things around from everyone, as I know I'm fully covered by some ethical imperatives. Life is cool and easy. I wont even feel bad for people who think these thefts stink.... Seriously...


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

harzack86 said:


> This is soo cool, I'm going to start taking things around from everyone, as I know I'm fully covered by some ethical imperatives. Life is cool and easy. I wont even feel bad for people who think these thefts stink.... Seriously...


Do YOUR ethics draw the line somewhere? One stolen iPod and 9 people are detained and searched, solely because they had the opportunity to steal it:
- Do you search their lockers and backpacks?
- Do you do a physical search?
- Do you threaten collective punishment (grade penalty to all suspects)?
- Do you use violence or threats of violence?
- Do you lock everyone up until the thief confesses?

Do you value a material possession over everything else? Think a little.

Nobody said that the thief is immune. What I said is that most of us have principles that limit the measures we may use to recover it. I'm sure that someone as clever as you can think of lots of other ways to investigate a theft.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

thejst said:


> The fact is is that I Don't come to this site to read about what a self-important dink you are. Take it to the 'Everything Else' part of the site if you want to wank about what you think you know.
> 
> Hokay?
> and **** off.


If memory serves me correctly, nxnw is a lawyer and likely forgot more about searches and rights than most on this board ever knew.

Good for him in expressing caution in conducting searches to preserve people's rights. He does not deserve to be called names. Matter of fact it points to the author of the comments being much more of a d***.


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

thejst said:


> The fact is is that I Don't come to this site to read about what a self-important dink you are. Take it to the 'Everything Else' part of the site if you want to wank about what you think you know.
> 
> Hokay?
> and **** off.


I didn't mean to upset you.


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## DBerG (May 24, 2005)

Okay stay calm, people.

And...stealing is illegal. I don't think there should be restrictions in the recovery process, unless it harms other people.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

nxnw said:


> Legal rights, such as the right against unreasonable search, grew out of ethical concepts of preserving an individuals dignity and security. Even if the search did not violate a legal right, it violated the underlying ethic.
> 
> I am curious, as well, why you believe that being on school property would diminish a person's legal rights. I can see circumstances where some imminent danger (had the stolen item been a gun, for instance) would make an indiscriminate search more reasonable, but I am not sure what other factors would apply here.


So which is it? Is it wrong to search them, or wrong to steal, or wrong to violate a right that doesn't exist?

It isn't being on school property that constitutes the legal contract here, it's registration at the school.

Also, since the it was the police that effected the search, the teacher here hasn't done anything except report a crime. Nothing. Do you have a problem with the police conducting a search? I didn't think so.

By the way, this is the Maritimes. If they were innocent, they were no doubt "willingly searched." People can be nice enough to want to help the teacher in this situation. Just not where we come from.


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

HowEver said:


> So which is it? Is it wrong to search them, or wrong to steal, or wrong to violate a right that doesn't exist?
> 
> It isn't being on school property that constitutes the legal contract here, it's registration at the school.
> 
> Also, since the it was the police that effected the search, the teacher here hasn't done anything except report a crime. Nothing. Do you have a problem with the police conducting a search? I didn't think so.


It's wrong to steal and it's wrong to detain and search someone without reasonable cause — and I sure do have a problem with police conducting a search without reasonable cause. 

BTW, this was not a police search. The narrative indicates it was conducted by the vice principal and an *off-duty* police officer.

Is there something in school registrations you have seen where the student waives the right against unreasonable search? Nothing like that has jumped out at me in my kids' schools registrations. Even if there is something to that effect, I'm sure I have not given the school unlimited authority to search, detain or discipline my kids.


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## thegreenapple (Jan 3, 2006)

if the only time it could have been taken is when all the kids where togethere
then if all say not me but do not state who they all have done it 
that is what i think and if you disagree then good for you and i happy you do as i see it i need sleep


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

nxnw said:


> It's wrong to steal and it's wrong to detain and search someone without reasonable cause — and I sure do have a problem with police conducting a search without reasonable cause.
> 
> BTW, this was not a police search. The narrative indicates it was conducted by the vice principal and an *off-duty* police officer.
> 
> Is there something in school registrations you have seen where the student waives the right against unreasonable search? Nothing like that has jumped out at me in my kids' schools registrations. Even if there is something to that effect, I'm sure I have not given the school unlimited authority to search, detain or discipline my kids.


I'm sure you're more effective when you're on the clock.



> Excuse me? Abusing my authority? You're really full of it. I did not personally search my students. The vice-principal and *on-duty police officer* searched them.


By the way, nx, there is something in registration that allows this kind of search. You should contact your children's principal(s) immediately.


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

HowEver said:


> "on-duty police officer"


I stand corrected.


HowEver said:


> By the way, nx, there is something in registration that allows this kind of search. You should contact your children's principal(s) immediately.


nx*nw* to you, buddy.  

Do you have an example of this language in registration materials? I'm interested in knowing precisely what it allows and in what circumstances.


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

nxnw said:


> BTW, this was not a police search. The narrative indicates it was conducted by the vice principal and an *off-duty* police officer.


No, the narrative does NOT indicate that. In fact, and I shall quote myself:

"I did not personally search my students. The vice-principal and *on-duty* police officer searched them."

Yes, that's right. An RCMP officer who has a station at our school helped complete the searches. It is with him that the vice principal made the inital complaint and he who helped me file a police report.


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

Thanks. I have already been corrected respecting the status of the police officer.

The fact that a police officer was involved does not, however, address the concern I raised. Indeed, the officer's position of authority creates the same dynamic where a student will be intimidated by authority and obey instructions rather than say, "You have no right to look through my things". This dynamic is long established not to be voluntary. This is why suspects are warned of their right to remain silent, and their statements must be proven to be voluntary before they can be used as evidence in court.

A couple of tangential thoughts:

- If it is absolutely clear that nobody entered or left the room during the interval when the theft took place, surely these students would have witnessed the theft. Why has the professed desire of these students to help you not resulted in one or more of them taking steps to recover your iPod for you?

- If you have homeowners or renters insurance, the theft will likely be covered under your policy (subject to a deduction and possibly betterment).

- Some credit cards also protect items purchased with them against loss or theft within a period of time after purchase.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

nxnw said:


> - If you have homeowners or renters insurance, the theft will likely be covered under your policy (subject to a deduction and possibly betterment).


Good point about the deduction. But on many homeowner policies, it's $500.


The credit card protection might be a better bet.

Also, since it had to be one of the nine, and the thief definitely either had a witness or an accomplice, if not 8 of them, perhaps these kids aren't as nice as is being made out.

Does anyone remember the story recently about the U.S. professor whose laptop was stolen, and then gave a lecture on the many security devices built into it, how it would phone home, be traceable, etc.? It was quoted here on ehMac. That's what okc should have done: told the kids the iPod had a built-in security device that makes it show up on the net. Use the "sentinel" reference from The Matrix and they might get it.


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

The deductible on my tenants insurance is, as mentioned above, $500. This is a common amount and many companies will not go lower, at least not without a very large increase in premium.

I believe that one or two other students know who did it. If it happened when I believe it did, there were some students in the other room, and a few out in the hallway waiting for the bell to ring. Obviously I do not feel warm and fuzzy about the possible 3 people who know who did this, but I also know how it can feel to have a friend who does things like this and it's hard to know what to do. I offered $50 for information, but they may be more worried about what the culprit would do to them if they found out they ratted them out... or maybe $50 isn't worth risking their friendship.

Either way, I'm still on the case, and I haven't lost sleep about how the situation was handled. Once I reported it, I had no control over what happened. The administration followed guidlines set by the school board and hence the government. Had I known what would happen before I reported it stolen, I still would have reported it, because I don't believe any of my students think any less of me because they were searched.

If a student does complain, I'll be sure to send them your way, nxnw. I'm sure you'd make an excellent lawyer for them and get lots of money out of the school board for their minor inconvenience.

I only paid a partial amount ($300 of the $400-something) on my Futureshop credit card. I'm not sure if I have the FutureGuard protection. If I do, perhaps that partial amount will be covered - I'm not sure. But I don't think I do have the coverage. With my balance, I think it would cost me $20 or more each month. It would be worth it now, but you don't often think of things like this happening when you sign up for a card and are trying to save money.


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## zarquon (May 24, 2005)

HowEver said:


> Does anyone remember the story recently about the U.S. professor whose laptop was stolen, and then gave a lecture on the many security devices built into it, how it would phone home, be traceable, etc.? It was quoted here on ehMac. That's what okc should have done: told the kids the iPod had a built-in security device that makes it show up on the net. Use the "sentinel" reference from The Matrix and they might get it.


This is really not realistic. Unless these are 2nd Grade students, most kids will know that there is no such security or network connectivity for an iPod. With the notebook theft, it was a highly plausable, and well timed/executed ploy. With the iPod, I think most students (regardless of their participation in this act) would laugh - quite hard probably.

Z.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

zarquon said:


> This is really not realistic. Unless these are 2nd Grade students, most kids will know that there is no such security or network connectivity for an iPod. With the notebook theft, it was a highly plausable, and well timed/executed ploy. With the iPod, I think most students (regardless of their participation in this act) would laugh - quite hard probably.
> 
> Z.


It was meant to be anecdotal rather than strategic, but if this is a computer class, it is possible that the teacher was savvy enough to build something in. Not likely, but such things are possible.

I guess it wasn't an engraved iPod, either.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

okcomputer said:


> Obviously I do not feel warm and fuzzy about the possible 3 people who know who did this,
> 
> Either way, I'm still on the case, and I haven't lost sleep about how the situation was handled. Once I reported it, I had no control over what happened. The administration followed guidlines set by the school board and hence the government. Had I known what would happen before I reported it stolen, I still would have reported it, because I don't believe any of my students think any less of me because they were searched.
> 
> If a student does complain, I'll be sure to send them your way, nxnw. I'm sure you'd make an excellent lawyer for them and get lots of money out of the school board for their minor inconvenience.


As a person of authority, sounds like you had students searched on a hunch. 
You sound pleased with yourself and at the same time are trying to distance yourself for the actions taken. Real smug there... Couple with the fact that it produced nothing, you have lost face. 

BTW, if the students are too afraid to speak to you about a stolen iPod, how can you even be sure that they don't think less of you.... I think that the truth may surprise you.


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> As a person of authority, sounds like you had students searched on a hunch.
> You sound pleased with yourself and at the same time are trying to distance yourself for the actions taken. Real smug there... Couple with the fact that it produced nothing, you have lost face.
> 
> BTW, if the students are too afraid to speak to you about a stolen iPod, how can you even be sure that they don't think less of you.... I think that the truth may surprise you.


Haha, whatever buddy. I am not pleased or displeased with myself. I find it very hard to believe that those who are on my ass about students being searched would not have done exactly what I did in the situation - which was to report the theft to the administration and follow the rules laid out by the school board. I'm not being smug whatsoever. I did what I was told to do by my superiors. In the event of a theft, report it immediately to the principal or vice principal, remain in the classroom, and ensure no students leave the classroom.

The reason the search come up empty, by the way, is that there was an entire lunch period before the class returned. I noticed the iPod missing during the beginning of the lunch period, spent the lunch looking at surveillance, and then dealt with the situation when the students returned. It was definitely one of those nine students - how is that just a HUNCH? There is no one else it could have been.

You two (or three) are making me out to be this horrible ****ing person who put their students through something terrible for naught. One of the nine is guilty of theft. It's not like a full search of the entire student body, including lockers and such. It was nine students.

I am not so naive to think that every single student I teach thinks highly of me in every way. I have honest, open conversations with most of my students, and the truth would not surprise me. I know which students care less, I know which ones care deeply, and I know which ones are indifferent. For the record, I know I am good teacher, and I know a lot of my students care about me as much as I care about them.

I am also unsure if some people are actually reading my repsonses. I said that it is one of 3 or 4 students who have commited this crime. They are not the ones who I have had lenghty conversations with as of late. Your point about them being too scared to talk to me about a stolen ipod and the allegation that they really think differently of me than I think is completely off-base. The people responsible for stealing the ipod might not think of highly of me - I do not claim that they do.

I'm getting pretty sick of folks spewing this holier-than-thou "you should reflect on this" / "you abused your authority" / "your students secretly hate you, you would be surprised" crap. I'm not surprised at the users it's coming from, though.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Once again ehmac.ca denizens have nothing better to do then incriminate and interrogate someone who yea may have made a mistake, and it was his superiors not him that initiate the search which I don't agree with either but it's disgusting how you people are attacking okcomputer if you ask me. Let it go, this topic is getting way too old.

okcomputer, I think you should let this go and just take it as a lesson learned, you can never be too careful with your stuff. Keep it locked up, whatever.


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## hogie (Feb 4, 2006)

I feel for you okcomputer. This thread is making me more and more irritatated with each post so I can only imagine how bad it's getting for you. 

My advice is to stop responding and forget about these people. You'll get the love/advice you need from your friends and co-workers. See you on locals.


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

You have my sympathies. I quit teaching in public schools over just such an issue. A student vandalised my car. Everyone knew who it was. The school and the board made it clear they did not want me filing charges, nor would they help with damages. What are we teaching the 'little dears' if we don't show them that actions have consequences?

Tip 1. Just because they will talk to you doesn't mean that they didn't do it. My experience suggests otherwise.

Tip 2. Parents don't want to know. Someone above said that teachers are there to teach the rest begins at home. Wrong. In problem cases half the time the issue IS the home. Worse, teachers are expected to deal with what ('scuse, who) ever shows up no matter what.


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## vimy (Apr 18, 2006)

Well I am a grade 12 student at High school and feel the teachers pain. I was in gym class and the locker room was left unlocked. My pants and shoes with walet were all stolen. Everybody knew who did it and nothing is done becasue of this fear to offend the very kids who stole the stuff. 

Another thing with regards to this whole searching thing is (with my student point of view) is I would not care about being searched. The only person caring about being searched is the kid who stole the ipod. And those stupid kids that make a big deal of things just to make a big deal of it. 

I hope you keep us posted as to what happens with this case Mr. Teacher.


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## mikeinmontreal (Oct 13, 2005)

So who stole the freakin' iPod?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

rgray said:


> You have my sympathies. I quit teaching in public schools over just such an issue. A student vandalised my car. Everyone knew who it was. The school and the board made it clear they did not want me filing charges, nor would they help with damages. What are we teaching the 'little dears' if we don't show them that actions have consequences?


Sadly this is becoming all to prevalent and supports my contention that do gooders have ruined teacher's abilities to discipline students properly.

Yesterday I watched disgusted as a group of about 14 year old girls walked by our property smoking and spitting on the sidewalk.

Young boys walk down the middle of our street and defy traffic, forcing vehicles to pull over and wait for them to pass. No respect and foul language and behaviour reign. One does not dare say anything or you will have a slashed tire or broken windshield the next morning.

The bus shelter at the end of our crescent was vandalized again over the weekend for the umpteenth time. This time after cleaning broken glass all morning off the street, the city loaded what was left of it and permanently removed it. Riders will now wait in the elements for their bus.

Two other bus shelters within four blocks in either direction met the same fate last weekend.

Parents are to blame, schools are to blame, and those who insisted corporal punishment be removed from society are also to blame.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

SINC said:


> Parents are to blame, schools are to blame, and those *who insisted corporal punishment be removed from society are also to blame*.


Someone needs to smack you with a 2 by clue....


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Maybe the electric chair be brought back to Canada, women should be kept in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant, oh and we bring the bible back into public school classrooms just as misbehaving children should be beaten silly by teachers. 

Won't name names here, it'd be terribly wrong of me to be disrespecting my elders at least under our new righteous Conservative government wouldn't it?


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

Let me make it clear that I am not characterizing OKComputer as a bad person, bad teacher, or anything of the kind. To the extent that OKComputer was involved in detaining and searching the students, whether it was fully directed by him or completely out of his hands, it is only a single incident and hardly defines what kind of person he is (which most of us have no knowledge of whatever).

What I am saying is that I am troubled by a whole class being detained and searched in these circumstances. 

I regret very much how many people have asserted the point of view that the loss of a material possession is a paramount value, overriding ethical principles that people hold dear and have, indeed, died for. The concepts and reasons behind these values are are at the foundation of our rights and freedoms, and those who have dismissed them might consider reading and thinking a bit about why these rights and freedoms are so valued. 

As for what I would have done in the circumstances:
— I too would have reported the theft, 
— I would not have detained the students, 
— I would have urged the police to interview each student who may have been a witness, 
— I would have indicated which students I suspected, and why, if I had a compelling reason to suspect them,
— I would look for a way for the thief to return it anonymously, but let the class know that if its not voluntarily returned and the their is caught, you would urge the school and the police to assert the disciplinary measures at their disposal,
— I would register the iPod by its SN as stolen.

Finally, the comments that have been asserted with hostility in crude personal attacks reflect very badly on those who posted them. I hope those individuals learn to express differing opinions with more intelligence than they have displayed here.


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

HowEver said:


> It was meant to be anecdotal rather than strategic, but if this is a computer class, it is possible that the teacher was savvy enough to build something in. Not likely, but such things are possible...


...Or that iPods phone home when plugged into a host computer...

Do we know that they don't? iTunes certainly contacts Apple from time to time during use.


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

nxnw said:


> ...Or that iPods phone home when plugged into a host computer...
> 
> Do we know that they don't? iTunes certainly contacts Apple from time to time during use.


The technology is there. In iTunes, you can find the serial # of the iPod that was last connected. iTunes can talk to Apple. The connection should be made. I would pay to find out if my iPod was connected to another machine..


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

I can verify that it has. So, I'll send you my PayPal address via pm.

Not to make light of your situation or anything...



okcomputer said:


> The technology is there. In iTunes, you can find the serial # of the iPod that was last connected. iTunes can talk to Apple. The connection should be made.* I would pay to find out if my iPod was connected to another machine..*


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I didn't think anyone would have the nerve to post that old Socrates/Aristotle thing.


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

Someone please lock this thread. Haha.


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## _Outcast_ (Oct 17, 2003)

Wow, I can't believe ArtistSeries took time out from bashing the Conservatives long enough to even read another thread, let alone post in it. Bravo.

Must be a slow news day or something. Either that or he's taking a break from beating the same damn drum over, and over, and over, and over....

Jerry


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Macfury said:


> I didn't think anyone would have the nerve to post that old Socrates/Aristotle thing.


By definition, anything they might have said is "old," right?

What was your point again?


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

_Outcast_ said:


> Wow, I can't believe ArtistSeries took time out from bashing the Conservatives long enough to even read another thread, let alone post in it. Bravo.


Thanks Jerry - It's funny how you only notice the threads that mentioned Cons.... You'll find that most of my posts are not on the subject that you imagine...

Next time I'll even try to be as PC as nxnw....


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

SINC said:


> Yesterday I watched disgusted as a group of about 14 year old girls walked by our property smoking and spitting on the sidewalk.
> 
> Young boys walk down the middle of our street and defy traffic, forcing vehicles to pull over and wait for them to pass. No respect and foul language and behaviour reign. One does not dare say anything or you will have a slashed tire or broken windshield the next morning.
> 
> ...


These are things that have been happening long (very long) before the "abolishment" of corporal punishment. Perhaps it's not the children who have changed, but rather your perspective.


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

ArtistSeries said:


> Next time I'll even try to be as PC as nxnw....


I'm not PC, I'm Mac.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

« MannyP Design » said:


> These are things that have been happening long (very long) before the "abolishment" of corporal punishment. Perhaps it's not the children who have changed, but rather your perspective.


Read it again Manny. They are violent, out of control thugs. That IS new. This neighbourhood used to be full of well behaved, polite children when we moved here 20 years ago. They used to knock on our door and ask to cut the lawn for a few bucks. Now they slash our tires wearing $400 gold chains around their necks. Progress? I think not. Too bad you can't see the difference. I am living it.


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## Tiranis (Jun 19, 2005)

How true, SINC. And to those who can't see anything bad with today's youth, visit some eastern European country or even any other European country. You will understand just what respect means... the way kids behave towards their teachers (and towards everyone else) in Canada is just sad.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

No, it is not new. Gangs have been around for a very long time... what is new, is over-population. Too bad _you_ can't see the difference.



Tiranis said:


> How true, SINC. And to those who can't see anything bad with today's youth, visit some eastern European country or even any other European country. You will understand just what respect means... the way kids behave towards their teachers (and towards everyone else) in Canada is just sad.


What's sad is the illiteracy level on this board--people can't read worth sh!te; not a single person here has denied that there is violent crime amongst youth. What these people seem to lack in understanding is that it is not NEW. They believe that what was once a town of 60k people 20-30 years ago should be the exact same town of 1 million today. The lack of sight here baffles me. Anybody who thinks hitting a kid for doing something wrong is ignorant. Clearly.


You want to talk about increases? Let's talk about the increased child abuse.

Maybe if some people stopped glaring at kids and judging them on what they wear, they might be able to break the ice and get to know them... there's a concept.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

« MannyP Design » said:


> Perhaps it's not the children who have changed, but rather your perspective.


Truer words have not been spoken on this subject...


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## CN (Sep 3, 2004)

SINC said:


> Read it again Manny. They are violent, out of control thugs. That IS new. This neighbourhood used to be full of well behaved, polite children when we moved here 20 years ago. They used to knock on our door and ask to cut the lawn for a few bucks. Now they slash our tires wearing $400 gold chains around their necks. Progress? I think not. Too bad you can't see the difference. I am living it.


More like read it again, SINC.

In pretty much every thread, you either give meaningless responses that simply reinforce the OP's point without adding anything (eg- in threads where the OP complains about an Apple product you might say something to the effect of, Sorry to hear that, mine's working great) or in your second type of post, you re-post the same old points over and over again (eg- eBay is the devil, The youth of today are out of control thugs and so on). 

Your reliance upon anecdotal evidence (such as in the above post) is not a very effective way to make any sort of point. There are so many things that can alter our perception of a situation, not to mention when we are comparing it to a memory. I suggest you do an internet search, when I did one the overwhelming majority of research based conclusion I read was that youth crime rates or holding steady, or decreasing in some cases. There are some interesting articles about perception vs. reality of youth crime which may be particularly of interest.

"The neighbourhood used to be FULL of well behaved, polite children"? So now its FULL of "thugs"? Maybe because of the way the kids dress, they seem like thugs, but are they ACTING like them? The $400 gold chains you so vividly mention suggest that you may be deciding that "the youth" are thugs solely upon their appearance, but are they actually being any more harmful? I think this really is a pretty big issue, because even if a kid doesn't act like a "thug", if he dresses like one, then it seems to be assumed that he is one. In this post, as well as others (the girls who are smoking) you seem to put alot of stock in appearances...last time I checked, the type of pants somebody wears never hurt me.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

« MannyP Design » said:


> No, it is not new. Gangs have been around for a very long time... what is new, is over-population. Too bad _you_ can't see the difference.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Our city was 30K when we move here, It is now 56K, nowhere near a million. But one disturbing fact remains. Crime is up. Murder is up. Vandalism is up. Disrespect is everywhere. Far too many teens have an attitude problem. They are spoiled rotten, coddled rich kids with no social conscience. Maybe it is better in your area and if that is the case, good for your neighbourhood.

But don't tell me what I witness every day is not reality. It IS happening here, live and in living colour. And too many people have the emotional and physical scars to prove it.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

So do you witness the kids that are at participating in sports, studying, pursuing healthy interests?

Are you Superman? Are you absolutely aware of everything around you?

I'll admit... disrespect IS everywhere. But it's not found in one specific age group.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Ah Sinc you don't give everyone the real picture....you're in a suburb of Edmonton - that shining exemplar of Con crime fighting.

Here's what one resident sez



> Edmonton is the capital of Alberta in Canada. It is now the murder capital of Canada, and also has the highest crime rate in CanadaAbout a million people, more with all of *its boroughs like St. Albert* and Sherwood Park. Nice skyline. The nice areas are few, but they are mostly around the Riverbend district in the now joined former city of Strathcona and on the far western edge the now joined former city of Jasper Place... But there's too much bad ****... in other places... the ghetto is the entire lower northeast, stretching across the subway / above ground train line to areas like Belvedere and Highlands and Abbotsfield and Boyle/McCauley. Theres so much ****ing gangs its crazy, the main ones that are bad and fighting each other right now are the mostly black Bloods and the mostly native Alberta Warriors. Theres like a ****ing shooting a day here. it sux, yes it does... do something about it...


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=edmonton

Such a glorious model for the rest of Canada......NOT!!!

Mississauga on the other hand - similar size, EXTREMELY multicultural....and safe.

All you have to do is look at the crime and drunkenness stats for Alberta and you know why it's not a recipe that needs emulating.
Tell Ralphie and Harpo to fix their own damn backyard FIRST


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## Tiranis (Jun 19, 2005)

Yeah, sure I can't read just because I don't agree with you. You know I'm a ****in' teenager, I'm 18... I came to Canada 2 years ago, I live in North Vancouver and I see these kids every day. I go to a supposedly nice high school but I can still tell you that kids here are 1) not educated well enough, 2) ignorant of other people, and 3) disrespecting towards adults (teachers, parents).

So, yeah, apparently I judge kids on what they wear even though I have a first hand experience unlike most of you. Apparently I'm not the one to talk about this stuff. But you know what? I think there must be something wrong when even teenagers recognize that there IS a problem.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Tiranis said:


> Yeah, sure I can't read just because I don't agree with you. You know I'm a ****in' teenager, I'm 18... I came to Canada 2 years ago, I live in North Vancouver and I see these kids every day. I go to a supposedly nice high school but I can still tell you that kids here are 1) not educated well enough, 2) ignorant of other people, and 3) disrespecting towards adults (teachers, parents).
> 
> So, yeah, apparently I judge kids on what they wear even though I have a first hand experience unlike most of you. Apparently I'm not the one to talk about this stuff. But you know what? I think there must be something wrong when even teenagers recognize that there IS a problem.


Now comes the truth. Thanks for the courage to post it Tiranis. Perhaps it will open the eyes of those who sit in their ivory towers and choose to ignore the real things happening just outside the borders of their secure little gated community.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Tiranis said:


> Yeah, sure I can't read just because I don't agree with you. You know I'm a ****in' teenager, I'm 18... I came to Canada 2 years ago, I live in North Vancouver and I see these kids every day. I go to a supposedly nice high school but I can still tell you that kids here are 1) not educated well enough, 2) ignorant of other people, and 3) disrespecting towards adults (teachers, parents).


All of them? Wow. It must suck to be you. But, if your principlal or teachers on here, they wouldn't necessarily share the same perspective as you.



> So, yeah, apparently I judge kids on what they wear even though I have a first hand experience unlike most of you. Apparently I'm not the one to talk about this stuff. But you know what? I think there must be something wrong when even teenagers recognize that there IS a problem.


I didn't say _you[/] judged kids on what they wear--I was referring to SINC's post.



SINC said:



Now comes the truth. Thanks for the courage to post it Tiranis. Perhaps it will open the eyes of those who sit in their ivory towers and choose to ignore the real things happening just outside the borders of their secure little gated community.

Click to expand...

If anyone here sits in their ivory towers, SINC, it would be you. Stop glaring at people and judging them on their appearance and I think there might be hope for you. :lmao:

Let's see... since we're all sharing anecdotes about where we live--I live in a large neighborhood where the youth (of all ages) far outnumber the adults... every other night we take a nightly stroll through the entire area and we have yet to see kids running amok assaulting elderly people; kids intimidating people; kids insulting adults... but we do have graffiti, but it's on a wall designated for kids to paint on so that's okay. We also have kids wearing "bling bling" and designer clothes, but I don't see a problem with that... they also stop to pet our dog... but not before asking permission.

:yawn:

I guess I live in a very large ivory tower. :lmao:_


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

Just an update... I'm still going through footage, but it's getting more desperate as the days go on. There are a lot of students who are very supportive - so much so they wanted to do a fundraiser for me. But I declined, because there are many programs at the school that need money more than I need an iPod!

A student of mine wrote a piece for the student newspaper, and she also wrote a letter to the Apple education rep for our area. He responded and offered me a discount on an iPod that's a bit more than the Educational discount. It's my last option, but at least I won't have to pay full price if I decide to replace it.


That said, I am trying to come up with the cash to replace it if I don't find anything concrete this week. To that end, I am *auctioning off my iPod earbuds, USB cable, pouch, and box to anyone who wants them and would like to help me out.*

I don't expect hand-outs (obviously most of us are in the same boat, strapped for cash but in love with Apple products), but if anyone is looking to pickup any of the items I would really appreciate you taking them off my hands and hepling me out. I've only had the stuff for a few months, so it's all in great shape.

*Make me an offer here, or PM, or email me at mattcorkum(at)gmail.com.* I may put them up in the classifieds section as well with pics.


For those of you with super-duper hearts and extra funds for a donation, my Paypal is *[email protected]*, but please don't think I'm expecting it - it's just worth a shot.

For any help, I am willing to do some sound editing, photo editing, video conversion, and some HTML work in return.

Thanks again for all your responses and such. Even if some of them didn't sit well with me, at least we got a decent dialogue going about many different things!


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

And I hope that the response is similar to this thread
http://www.ehmac.ca/showthread.php?t=40375


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> And I hope that the response is similar to this thread
> http://www.ehmac.ca/showthread.php?t=40375


Listen buddy, what the hell did I do to you to make you be such a prick to me? If people don't want to help me out (and by the way, I am SELLING some things and offering services as well, not asking people outright to buy me an damn iPod, or in the case of that other thread an entire computer!), then they will. If not, they can ignore my post. Which I wish you would just do instead of being an asshole.

Get ****ed. "Honourable Citizen" my ass.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

okcomputer said:


> Listen buddy, what the hell did I do to you to make you be such a prick to me? If people don't want to help me out (and by the way, I am SELLING some things as well, not asking people outright to buy me an damn iPod, or in the case of that other thread an entire computer!), then they will. If not, they can ignore my post. Which I wish you would just do instead of being an asshole.
> 
> Get ****ed. "Honourable Citizen" my ass.


something about bees, honey and (piss and) vinegar comes to mind

the student fundraiser sounded like a great idea
it's local, it involved students and the thief would see how others react to his/her transgression
could galvanize students into creating more fundraisers for other things

alas, it was declined
opportunity lost


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> the student fundraiser sounded like a great idea
> it's local, it involved students and the thief would see how others react to his/her transgression
> could galvanize students into creating more fundraisers for other things
> 
> ...


Yes, but like I said, the school needs money for lots of different things. I would not be comfortable with taking money from other programs. I can only imagine the responses by some on here if I HAD accepted money from a school fundraiser.. :yikes:

I also think any outcome except catching the theif will have no effect on their conscience. Sad, but most likely true.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

okcomputer said:


> Yes, but like I said, the school needs money for lots of different things. I would not be comfortable with taking money from other programs. I can only imagine the responses by some on here if I HAD accepted money from a school fundraiser.. :yikes:
> 
> I also think any outcome except catching the theif will have no effect on their conscience. Sad, but most likely true.


I'm surprised that you would even consider taking money from a fundraiser. And how have things even moved that far? Sounds like this has become a quest for you (finding the theif(sic)). How many resources, time (reviewing the tapes yourself) and money has been wasted on your little quest? 

I can sympathize with the lost of your iPod and understand your "want" of a Mac.

Yes, you are asking outright for people to buy you an iPod


okcomputer said:


> For those of you with super-duper hearts and extra funds for a donation, my Paypal is [email protected]


I will say this, you seem to whine a lot. It's probably impossible for you to get some perspective on your actions but you seem rather high-strung for someone who is a teacher.


okcomputer said:


> Might have something to do with the student who just called me an idiot and swore at me because he is now kicked out of school. And instead of swearing at him and losing my job, I swore at a faceless person who I felt insulted me.


http://www.ehmac.ca/showpost.php?p=306043&postcount=11

It's not the first time you have whined about not having Apple products
http://www.ehmac.ca/showthread.php?t=33122


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> I'm surprised that you would even consider taking money from a fundraiser. And how have things even moved that far? Sounds like this has become a quest for you (finding the theif(sic)). How many resources, time (reviewing the tapes yourself) and money has been wasted on your little quest?


I asked you a simple question - what is with your vendetta?

I did not consider taking money from a fundraiser - the idea was presented and I declined it. How was that not clear?

How much resources? Just my time, my friend. My lunchtime, before school and after school time. No money. What the hell are you getting at? Do you think I have an army of paid emloyees pouring over the "case"? Your accusatory tone and allegations are what make me high strung. It is completely uncalled for.



> Yes, you are asking outright for people to buy you an iPod


Please read my posts fully before making claims like this. I am selling accessorise. I did ask for a donation, but offered services in return (see the next line AFTER the one you quoted). What is so wrong about asking for help? People can ignore it. A lot of people have, and that's totally fine. 

Like I said, I am not expecting any handouts. I am attempting to sell some accessories and have offered services. But of course you choose to ignore those points and jump on me for asking for a donation.



> I will say this, you seem to whine a lot. It's probably impossible for you to get some perspective on your actions but you seem rather high-strung for someone who is a teacher.


Thanks for your opinion. I could care less what you think of me, since you do not know me at all and you choose to pick apart every single thing I write on here.

I will say this, you have a lot of time on your hands to nitpick and offer unwanted "advice" and criticism.

Perspective on my actions, eh?

1. Someone stole something from me.
2. I reported it to the administration.
3. I have been going over some surveillance tapes.
4. I posted to an online Mac community about my experience.
5. I asked if anyone wanted to buy some iPod accessories or wanted services.
6. ArtistSeries spent way too much time being a total prick to me for no reason.

High strung for a teacher? If you only knew what I deal with on a daily basis and have to keep my cool. I don't need the crap I get from you.

Bringing up that thread again, eh? Leave it alone, man. I explained myself thoroughly in both those cases, but apparently even after GAINING SOME PERSPECTIVE on my posts/actions, there is no getting away from your criticism. Oy vey.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I've gotta say that the skeptical among us might suspect that this whole sordid tale could be a set-up for the "request for donations." Wouldn't be the first time that happened.

It's a free country and you have the right to ask for anything you want to, but decorum dictates that you do it elsewhere. I require expensive medication to maintain my health--I don't ask for the money to pay for it on ehMac, even though it's financially daunting at times.

Go buy a cheap MP3 clone. How about a transistor radio?


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## Tiranis (Jun 19, 2005)

I don't get why this turned into bashing of the OP... somebody gets their iPod stolen and people start accusing the OP that he was at fault, that he's the bad guy, etc. Can't you just ****ing shut up? okcomputer had his iPod stolen and it's sad that one of his students would do such a thing. But no, instead of focusing on the real issue, people start looking for faults in okcomputer's approach and accusing him of many different things at once.

Can't you see that the real bad guy here is the thief not okcomputer?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

That may have been a bit harsh. If you want to get a part-time job to help pay for your iPod, why not just post it on the ehMac classifieds, without the baggage of the stolen iPod to complicate matters? Why should this involve "kind hearts." It would be a business transaction, no?


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Macfury said:


> I've gotta say that the skeptical among us might suspect that this whole sordid tale could be a _set-up for the "request for donations."_ Wouldn't be the first time that happened.
> 
> It's a free country and you have the right to ask for anything you want to, but decorum dictates that you do it elsewhere.


Seems that you spotted this one a mile away...


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

Macfury said:


> That may have been a bit harsh. If you want to get a part-time job to help pay for your iPod, why not just post it on the ehMac classifieds, without the baggage of the stolen iPod to complicate matters? Why should this involve "kind hearts." It would be a business transaction, no?


Teaching is a full-time and part-time job in one, but I am looking to do guitar lessons on weekends and evenings now that the musical has ended.

The only reason I posted "the baggage" here is that the story has been ongoing here for the past week. Some people posted supportive responses and sent kind PMs. You never know if someone sort of wants another set of earbuds and also wants to help out a fellow Canadian mac lover.

I did not post the outreach for help to offend anyone or have anyone think I'm a lazy bum who doesn't want to work for his Apple products. I work very hard and I saved for quite some time to buy the iPod that is stolen. 

I expected anyone who was going to buy the accessories or donate to contact me and I would provide them with a copy of the police report to prove I am not a scammer.

But either way, I really hate when people get so up in arms about things like this. Asking for something shouldn't be considered offensive. I am sorry I offended some people by asking for help, that isnt' my intent. Anything is worth a shot if it means I can sell these accessories and come closer to my goal of buying the iPod again.

The circumstance is also different. I am not outright asking for an iPod. It was stolen. The "kind hearts" come into play here because someone might not be out LOOKING for a usb cable or some audio editing, but they might read that and think "I could use that and it would help him out."

I won't make the mistake of reaching out to others on this board again. Or posting about anything half-personal. I should've learned my lesson from two pervious threads where several posters had nothing better to do than completely rip me apart personally.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Asking people to buy things they don't need is charity--like those crappy chocolate bars some kids sell as fundraisers. Why not just sell these items in the Eh MacClassifieds. You could add your backstory there and see if it helps you get a better price on the open market.


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

okcomputer said:


> For those of you with super-duper hearts and extra funds for a donation, my Paypal is ..., but please don't think I'm expecting it - it's just worth a shot.





okcomputer said:


> ...I expected anyone who was going to buy the accessories or *donate* to contact me...
> 
> I won't make the mistake of reaching out to others on this board again. Or posting about anything half-personal. *I should've learned my lesson from two pervious threads* where several posters had nothing better to do than completely rip me apart personally.


Perhaps the problem is that you perceive the "lesson" to be that ehmac is inhabited by a bunch of jerks who have nothing better to do than pick on you. Maybe the lesson is that you expressed values and judgment in the above messages (and in previous threads) that many of us found questionable.

I think every last one of us feels bad about your stolen iPod. Perhaps you could consider that many of us have had things stolen and have not even considered asking people with "super-duper hearts and extra funds for a donation". You might also get some perspective and rank the importance of your desire for an iPod against the infinite number of other causes that would benefit from others' generosity.


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

nxnw said:


> I think the problem is that you perceive the lesson to be that ehmac is inhabited by a bunch of jerks who have nothing better to do than pick on you. Maybe the lesson is that you expressed values and judgment in the above messages (and in previous threads) that many of us found questionable.


I think you have to understand that they WAY people have expressed their feelings towards any of my actions is not always appropriate nor helpful. It is fine to share an opinion, but a lot of times it is laced with a condescending attitude, coupled with personal attacks and holier-than-thou advice.

Sidenote: I don't think ehMac is inhabitied by a bunch of jerks who have too much time on their hands. I _have_ come across a handful of folks who fit that description, and I'm not the first one to discover them.

I've taken things that people have said on this board to heart from time to time - they write things in such a way that they are not offensive, pushy, or looking down on someone. But when my first reaction is to be offended by the audacity of some folks, it's hard to hear their point of view, let alone take anything from it.



> I think every last one of us feels bad about your stolen iPod. Perhaps you could consider that many of us have had things stolen and have not even considered asking people with "super-duper hearts and extra funds for a donation". You might also get some perspective and rank the importance of your need for an iPod against the infinite number of other causes that would benefit from others' generosity.


I don't doubt that people have had things stolen. There have been a few threads on such things and it's always heartbreaking. There have also been times in the past on other boards (and maybe this one?) where some folks have donated to someone's cause, whether they were robbed or whatnot. 

I am not saying my cause is any more important than any number of things... I give a lot of time and money to my school and my community and there are always people and programs that need more. I just reached out in case someone wanted to help. If people don't, it's okay. I am expecting nothing, but I really wish I wasn't made out to be a bad guy for trying.

I'm also really not asking for an outright donation. I should change the wording, I guess. I meant to say I will do photo editing and sound editing and such if people would like to have that done and pay me for my services.


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

okcomputer said:


> ...I just reached out in case someone wanted to help. If people don't, it's okay. I am expecting nothing, but I really wish I wasn't made out to be a bad guy for trying.
> 
> I'm also really not asking for an outright donation...


You clearly did ask for an outright donation and, speaking only for myself, I don't think it was appropriate. I don't think anyone has any business "reaching out for help" to buy an iPod. It is not something you need. It is something you want.


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

You know why I have such a problem with ArtistSeries and yourself? You completely ignore any points that I make that are agreeable or help make my point and you go right for things you pick apart and disagree with.

I guess until I submit and say "you guys are right, I am wrong," this will continue... bah.

You don't agree with me asking, fine, I get it. Get over it and stop posting about it!


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Don't pay any attention to Artist Series... he's been getting kicked around the forums lately and has been in a bitchy mood for the last little while. There's no particular reason why he's posting other than to act pious to piss people off. (Which is why I'd wager is the reason why he hides his identity.)

Ignore him. It's not worth the energy.

There's nothing wrong with throwing a tiny call for help... there ARE people here (lots of them) who are willing to help others out, so as long as they don't make it a habit and exploit the generosity of others.

I agree--a fundraiser is better used for helping the school out, not to mention there are always those who would frown upon it regardless if it was the kids' idea originally. Schools need as much help they can get.

I'm sure things will work out in the end for you, regardless.


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

okcomputer said:


> I guess until I submit and say "you guys are right, I am wrong," this will continue... bah.


So, do you feel it's appropriate to ask for donations so you can replace your iPod?


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Move on NXNW... there's no ambulances to chase here. Go badger a witness or something.


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

« MannyP Design » said:


> Move on NXNW... there's no ambulances to chase here. Go badger a witness or something.


So you think it's appropriate to ask for "donations" for this purpose?


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

He's just asking for it doesn't mean people have to give him anything. I certainly am not going to give him a dime especially since I just have an iPod Shuffle after losing a 3G iPod early last year, but I'm not going to bag on him for trying. People are just so uptight on forcing their own righteous ways on other people, it's disgusting. If you don't agree with what he's doing just ignore him.

okcomputer I hope you'll rise above it and politely bow out, this argument's become way too long. Good luck on getting an iPod again, and word to the wise, you have a job I have a job, we can both fund for our own iPods, just that personally I haven't bothered yet. My iPod Shuffle is serving me well.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

nxnw said:


> So you think it's appropriate to ask for "donations" for this purpose?


What's wrong with it? It's not the first time anybody has posted a call for help... it won't be the last time.

I've donated on this board before. I'm sure there have been a _lot_ of other donations made by a _lot_ of people on this board.

So why do you have a problem with it?


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## mikeinmontreal (Oct 13, 2005)

So to conclude. iPod stolen. A bunch of people trying to show how smart they are, how righteous they are, how self-absorded they are by posting their mumbo-jumbo. Arguments and criticisms everywhere. Oh wait, iPod never recovered. Oh wait again, another thread that went completely off topic. And now I even got suckered in by posting. okcomputer; good album, sucks about your iPod. I don't care if you're asking for donations; BTW I won't donate and I would never ask, but you're still free to ask. Good luck with your replacement and Godspeed.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

He's certainly within his rights to ask for the money. That many here find it audacious and are posting their reactions is also within their rights.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

okc: The problem is this: this is a thread about knowing the difference between right and wrong, and whenever someone suggests you are doing something wrong, you make it worse. That's putting it too nicely. You swear at them, call them names, jump up and down, hold your breath, swear you'll never make this mistake again, then do it again almost immediately.

As a teacher, we hold you to a higher level of not only decorum but civility, and not only patience but fairness. If you have any of these qualities, you certainly don't demonstrate them.

It would be nice if for a change you 'taught' us something other than that your response for offering up our opinions was a shower of vitriol more befitting SINC's view of 'youth today' than what we think of as a _teacher_. Can you hold back for a change?

It would also be nice if you didn't only come here posting about yourself, your problems, your troubles. Look something up for somebody once in a while. Find someone a place to buy something or better yet, give something away that is of value to you.

In the past few months or so, a myriad of strangers here on ehMac have helped me out in various situations. This despite the general view that from time to time I post sarcastic or caustic comments. I don't know what makes these people angels but I will say that even in dealing with people like you, it's best to avoid writing personal comments, calling names, generally what we hold to be "flaming" or even being "flame-bait." Talk about the situation, and not the person.

That said, you make some awfully strange choices on ehMac. In the same thread where you revealed yourself as a teacher, you posted blog info leading us to see pictures of your clique drinking and ingesting substances. Where is the decorum in that? It's not a crime to do these things on your own time, but why become famous for it? And then, when it's drawn to your attention that these activities might misrepresent you, or at least might focus on your profession negatively, you squeal about the terrible things being done _to you._

Look at my posts earlier in this thread. Your actions were defended. I also defended young people, since they were unfairly characterized. Hell, one day (soon!) they'll be old people besmirching youths to come. All this despite a very clear memory of the choices you made in earlier threads.

I think your posting of your PayPal address was already appropriately addressed. But you aren't a jobless, aimless kid.

And ironically (given how unlikely it is that someone who donates will take advantage of any service you are offering) it gives you something in common with the person who took your iPod: you both want something for nothing.

Now I can sit back and suffer your vituperation for that. Nothing ever changes. See post #15 in this thread if you don't believe me.





okcomputer said:


> Just an update... I'm still going through footage, but it's getting more desperate as the days go on. There are a lot of students who are very supportive - so much so they wanted to do a fundraiser for me. But I declined, because there are many programs at the school that need money more than I need an iPod!
> 
> A student of mine wrote a piece for the student newspaper, and she also wrote a letter to the Apple education rep for our area. He responded and offered me a discount on an iPod that's a bit more than the Educational discount. It's my last option, but at least I won't have to pay full price if I decide to replace it.
> 
> ...


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## vimy (Apr 18, 2006)

mikeinmontreal said:


> So to conclude. iPod stolen. A bunch of people trying to show how smart they are, how righteous they are, how self-absorded they are by posting their mumbo-jumbo. Arguments and criticisms everywhere. Oh wait, iPod never recovered. Oh wait again, another thread that went completely off topic. And now I even got suckered in by posting. okcomputer; good album, sucks about your iPod. I don't care if you're asking for donations; BTW I won't donate and I would never ask, but you're still free to ask. Good luck with your replacement and Godspeed.



My god, this has to be the best post in the entire 12 pages. I say no more posts unless its from Okcomputer with an answer to who stole the ipod. Thats all I want to know.


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## zarquon (May 24, 2005)

vimy said:


> I say no more posts unless its from Okcomputer with an answer to who stole the ipod. Thats all I want to know.


I'll second that. This has gone back and forth long enough.

Z.


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## mikeinmontreal (Oct 13, 2005)

Bartender, get Vimy and Zarquon whatever they want.


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## Tiranis (Jun 19, 2005)

zarquon said:


> I'll second that. This has gone back and forth long enough.
> 
> Z.


thirded. :clap:


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

« MannyP Design » said:


> What's wrong with it? It's not the first time anybody has posted a call for help... it won't be the last time.


1. It competes for funds with people who need money;
2. Calling this a "call for help" elevates it to something it is not. He wants an iPod;
3. The willingness to request and take money from strangers, because he wants an iPod, reflects a sense of entitlement and self indulgence that I find very disappointing, if not unprincipled.

The fact that some of you see fit to insult anyone who questions this behaviour is very sad, and I'm sorry if some of you consider this to be "mumbo jumbo". I presume that some of you are very young and have been fortunate enough to escape real need: either material need or other real hardship like the loss of a loved one that tends to instil a broader perspective. That might explain the elevation of "stuff" to such sanctity; why one would encourage someone to stand with his hand out, saying, "Help me! I want an iPod". Sorry, but that is not right.


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## harzack86 (Jan 30, 2005)

OMG, some people just can't stop....
I'm amazed.
Oops, I added one more post, sorry


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## shoe (Apr 6, 2005)

I never saw this post till this morning and i re read the later part of it tonight while i was taking a wiz i thought to myself about my school days and how f one of our class mates lost something or it was stollen usually things like toys or walkmans they usually were banned and we were told not to bring them to school.

It was a hard lesson to learn but I think it seems to fit right in here as well, shouldnt matter if your a teacher or a student new rule no more ipods in class.

May not seem fair but has life ever been fair for anyone?

Shoe


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I can sense a lotta love happening in the touchy-feelie group today.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

shoe said:


> I never saw this post till this morning and i re read the later part of it tonight *while i was taking a wiz*


Should I be asking what you were using to surf and pee at the same time?


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

No iPod yet. I'll update if it's found or if I end up getting another one.

HowEver: I'm sorry to hear you think I do not contribute to this board in any way. I don't believe that is true, but unfortunately a few of the threads I have been involved in have blown up to epic proportions.

For now, I think it would be best if this thread was locked. Or just not posted to.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

If it's locked, we'll never know who took the iPod. Why don't you just stop reading here until you solve the mystery?


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## mikeinmontreal (Oct 13, 2005)

There seems to be some serious addiction to this thread. Nonstoppostilitis or something. People, seek help! There is a PA group in a neighborhood near you. I am checking myself in later today.


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

Macfury said:


> If it's locked, we'll never know who took the iPod. Why don't you just stop reading here until you solve the mystery?



I'm sure it could be unlocked for me to add the final nail in the coffin if it came to that.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Here's something constructive (and to answer your soon to be asked questions: yes, we should all get a life):

Register your *iPod video* before the thief or some other schmuck does. Sure, you have a receipt and all. That's nice. But she/he/they have your iPod.

What am I talking about? You posted the serial number on your blog (perhaps in this thread too, but I don't recall that happening).

So the thief will otherwise be able to register your iPod video, which has 236 more days of warranty left; heck, they might even buy AppleCare for it:

http://www.apple.ca/support



> Our records indicate that your product is covered under Apple’s Limited Warranty and your estimated date of purchase was 2-Jan-06. Based on this data, your product will be covered by Apple service warranty for 236 more days. Please register this product today.
> You can still purchase the AppleCare Protection Plan for this product
> Visit the iPod support website to learn more about your iPod





okcomputer said:


> No iPod yet. I'll update if it's found or if I end up getting another one.
> 
> HowEver: I'm sorry to hear you think I do not contribute to this board in any way. I don't believe that is true, but unfortunately a few of the threads I have been involved in have blown up to epic proportions.
> 
> For now, I think it would be best if this thread was locked. Or just not posted to.


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

Umm, I'm not sure what that website is saying because I registered my iPod the day I got it. And when I called Apple to report it stolen, I gave them my serial number and they said "Yup, it's right here. You had some other iPods (a 4gb Mini and a 20gb Photo before), so I just wanted to make sure I added the comments to the right one."

I guess I can go register it again, but I'm pretty sure they have all the info they need at this point.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

okcomputer said:


> Umm, I'm not sure what that website is saying because I registered my iPod the day I got it. And when I called Apple to report it stolen, I gave them my serial number and they said "Yup, it's right here. You had some other iPods (a 4gb Mini and a 20gb Photo before), so I just wanted to make sure I added the comments to the right one."
> 
> I guess I can go register it again, but I'm pretty sure they have all the info they need at this point.


Okay, just letting you know what the Apple site said; you should try it yourself. And I wouldn't publish a serial number. The chance someone might turn in the iPod based on a search for that serial is probably small. And if registered, and turned in there, an Apple store would already have the number.


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## mikeinmontreal (Oct 13, 2005)

This thread will never end! I wonder how long it will get when my 6 month old and 2 and a half year old will be able to read it in English (I started them both off in French).


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

mikeinmontreal said:


> This thread will never end! I wonder how long it will get when my 6 month old and 2 and a half year old will be able to read it in English (I started them both off in French).


Not that we're counting, but this is *your* 5th post in the thread.

(You know how to get that info easily, right?)


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## mikeinmontreal (Oct 13, 2005)

Actually, you are counting and that makes 6. I do post unnecessarily most of the time, but I don't go as far as counting other member's posts. And according to 3 other members, my posts were the most relevant I might add.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

The forum counts posts for us.


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## mikeinmontreal (Oct 13, 2005)

Hostie de gaspillage de temps.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I think we should try to decide which posts other EhMAcers liked best and found most relevant in this thread. We should set up a committee to decide on voting requirements, then decide on voting critearia...


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Macfury said:


> I think we should try to decide which posts other EhMAcers liked best and found most relevant in this thread. We should set up a committee to decide on voting requirements, then decide on voting critearia...


Rome did not create a great empire by having committee meetings, they did it by killing all those who opposed them.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

What if aliens stole the iPod, planted it in someone's house, then started monkeying with the power grid. Neighbour against neighbour! Pretty soon all of the West Coast would be at each other's throats--and all over an iPod!


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Macfury said:


> What if aliens stole the iPod, planted it in someone's house, then started monkeying with the power grid. Neighbour against neighbour! Pretty soon all of the West Coast would be at each other's throats--and all over an iPod!


? West Coast??



SINC said:


> Rome did not create a great empire by having committee meetings, they did it by killing all those who opposed them.


Greece, specifically Athens, would have been a better example.

This is an issue for... the Senate.



MasterBlaster said:


> Once again:
> What if the iPod was stolen and planted on an innocent and unknowing student?
> Then that student was caught and charged?
> Well?


By any chance, do you (yourself) have a persecution complex?

.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)




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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Yeah, West Coast-I wanted the story to resonate for MasterBlaster! 

Eventually the violence spreads to the Martimes so OKComputer gets to see it too.

I like that BRAIN movie. That mutant was one scary guy.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

The Brain that Wouldn't Die, as seen through Mystery Science Theater 3000, is the best way to watch it.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I love the "cat fight" in which a stripper and a floozy accuse each other of being "a cheap stripper" and a "two-bit floozy." That'll take you down a notch!


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