# New iMac, New Mac Mini, New Mac Pro - Apple Store updates



## mikeinmontreal (Oct 13, 2005)

I hate being up this early.............but ze Apple Store, she is down. Looks like the rumor sites may have been right on the money for updates today.

Yay.........Refurb price drops, Firefly.


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## jlcinc (Dec 13, 2002)

Yea still down so maybe the new iMacs and minis will be out today.

John


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## Gabbadude (Nov 17, 2005)

I'm really curious about the new price. I'm afraid they will go up...


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## ATC (Feb 1, 2009)

Macrumors already has part numbers and specs up on the new iMacs but no pricing. Also for the Mac Pros.


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## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

Its up now...new Mini, Pro and iMac's on the front page.


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## overkill (May 15, 2005)

Nice RAM bump on the 24" iMacs. All start at 4 gigs.

New minis have good specs.


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## thejst (Feb 1, 2005)

overkill said:


> Nice RAM bump on the 24" iMacs. All start at 4 gigs.
> 
> New minis have good specs.


Crazy high prices on the entry level iMacs, IMO. 

The mini seems a little steep at $700 + as well. The sub-$500 mac remains elusive. 

And for god's sake, for a $3,000 mac pro can they not put in an airport card as standard?

Meh updates.


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## corey111 (Jul 9, 2007)

thejst said:


> Crazy high prices on the entry level iMacs, IMO.
> 
> The mini seems a little steep at $700 + as well. The sub-$500 mac remains elusive.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't want my MacPro to have wireless on it. It never moves anywhere and rarely do I ever want my production machine hooked up online, don't want to take any risks.


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## kevkwas (Feb 24, 2004)

not much change except the price$$$$$$$$ on the high end imac

Anyone know the difference between the video cards on the high end imac??


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## corey111 (Jul 9, 2007)

New Time Capsule, Airport extreme and keyboard as well.


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

iMacs go up to 8GBs now.


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## kevkwas (Feb 24, 2004)

corey111 said:


> New Time Capsule, Airport extreme and keyboard as well.


Whats different about the keyboard from the last imac???


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

kevkwas said:


> Whats different about the keyboard from the last imac???


They've made the wired keyboard the same as the BT keyboard, just without BT.

I think some people are going to be ticked.

$10 says Apple will release the iNumberpad to connect via one of the USB hubs.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

*New iMac tech specs and Canadian Pricing*

New iMac specs and Canadian Pricing:


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

mikeinmontreal said:


> I hate being up this early.............but ze Apple Store, she is down. Looks like the rumor sites may have been right on the money for updates today.
> 
> Yay.........Refurb price drops, Firefly.


Hehe MiM, we always look for those Refurb price-drops, eh? The old 2.0 Mac Mini dropped from $719-->$549... but the old 1.83 Combo Mini only dropped from $539->$499 Crummy.

The 2.8 24" iMac is down to $1399 from $1649. But the old 2.4Ghz 24" iMac is still $1349 (though I'm hoping it'll drop to $1199/1149 when it comes back in stock -- the 2.66 20"er dropped from $1399-->$1199).

Of note, there is now *no* currently shipping Mac with a Combo Drive. Both Minis now have superdrives! 

Today is the death of the Combodrive, People!


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## keebler27 (Jan 5, 2007)

interesting to note no FW400s on the mac pro either.

that is very interesting b/c even though FW800 is backwards compatible, that would mean new cables b/c I have mostly 400 cables and devices - just a few 800s.


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## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

Not impressed with these updates. At all.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

John Clay said:


> Not impressed with these updates. At all.


I would have to agree... they are a little underwhelming... and I'm easily impressed.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Wow!!!!  and not in a good way. Especially the pricing on the Mini, next to no speed increase, except purportedly on the graphics side, which you have to spend at least $1000 dollars to really see. A few extra USB ports, Firewire 800 (a good thing) and that is about it (I don't consider the change in display ports as an improvement). As an upgrade goes I would give it a 4/10.


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## mikeinmontreal (Oct 13, 2005)

FF, what do you think is a better deal? The refurb Mac Mini at $549 our the new lower-end Mac Mini? I agree about the now old and defunct 24-inch iMac. At $1149 or $1199, it would be tempting.


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

screature said:


> Wow!!!!  and not in a good way. Especially the pricing on the Mini, next to no speed increase, except purportedly on the graphics side, which you have to spend at least $1000 dollars to really see. A few extra USB ports, Firewire 800 (a good thing) and that is about it (I don't consider the change in display ports as an improvement). As an upgrade goes I would give it a 4/10.


Not that I love these updates either - but more has changed (at least on the low end) - a speed bump, a RAM Bump (old minis only officially could address ~3.3GB RAM) 

The Mini finally gets Wireless-N, and both have a Superdrive - no more combodrive in the apple lineup at all.

The Mini-DVI to DVI Adapter is in the box with the mini still (though no VGA Adapter) and the Mini gets the boost to DDR3 memory, which even the entry white MacBook doesn't have. It's not amazing, but for the same price (EDIT: My bad, the mini costs almost $100 more now - darn CDN$) as the older (badly in need of an update) Mini - it's not totally crap.

Now if only they'd drop the older 1.83Ghz/ComboDrive Refurbs to $399


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## cchaynes (Oct 25, 2007)

hmmmm

very odd, very unexciting

i want a 24" but how to build it, is the 500$ between the 2 worth it? more vram and HDD, the processor speed is minor

in fact they haven't changed have they?


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## matriculated (Jan 2, 2008)

What's with dropping numberpad on their products? Do they want to alienate people who are in accounting or other number crunching jobs? Even keyboards that do have numberpads drive my wife crazy because the layout is different.


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## cchaynes (Oct 25, 2007)

i must have a number pad

it seems to be an option now, but still no wireless with number pad


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

matriculated said:


> What's with dropping numberpad on their products? Do they want to alienate people who are in accounting or other number crunching jobs? Even keyboards that do have numberpads drive my wife crazy because the layout is different.


They still make the Numberpad keyboard, you can still buy it from Apple, and you can still select it at checkout as a free changeable option. I guess they just wanted another "feature" to sell to people - "Ooh look, it's faster and it has a new smaller keyboard!"



MikeinMontreal said:


> FF, what do you think is a better deal? The refurb Mac Mini at $549 our the new lower-end Mac Mini? I agree about the now old and defunct 24-inch iMac. At $1149 or $1199, it would be tempting.


With the new Mini at $729 Retail price (and around ~$670 for EDU/EPP), that's garbage. Unless you want to play a lot of 1080P videos, or really want the 4GB of RAM, the older $549 is way more worth it, IMHO.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

Adrian. said:


> They've made the wired keyboard the same as the BT keyboard, just without BT.
> 
> I think some people are going to be ticked.


Both versions of the keyboard are available. $49 for the one with a number pad included, $59 for the wired one without a number pad.


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## Admant (Jun 9, 2003)

My 8 core mac pro that I got at the refurbished store for 2400 is looking pretty good now. Not impressed with the price increase and only 8gb max ram on the quad core. A little better video cards yes.

And they just put the nail in the coffin for the mini.

It looks like they are trying to increase their profit margin on this re-fresh.

The advertising business is in a spiral, so I would think the pro sales are going to be way down. 

Bad timing for price bumps Apple. When every other manufacturer is lowering prices.

They should have held off on this re-fresh until the fall and hopefully a stronger economy.


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

So disappointing. Still, I may pull the trigger on the Mini just for the dual display feature. But I'm a bit confused about the Mini DisplayPort and the mini-DVI. I have a monitor with a DVI port and a monitor with a HDMI port. Which goes to which and what extras do I have to buy?


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## rei (May 6, 2005)

get the mini-display-port-to-DVI adapter. that's all you need.


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

hhk said:


> So disappointing. Still, I may pull the trigger on the Mini just for the dual display feature. But I'm a bit confused about the Mini DisplayPort and the mini-DVI. I have a monitor with a DVI port and a monitor with a HDMI port. Which goes to which and what extras do I have to buy?


You could also get a MiniDisplayport to HDMI adapter, and use the Mini DVI-DVI included in the Mac Mini box.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

fyrefly said:


> Not that I love these updates either - but more has changed (at least on the low end) - a speed bump, a RAM Bump (old minis only officially could address ~3.3GB RAM)
> 
> The Mini finally gets Wireless-N, and both have a Superdrive - no more combodrive in the apple lineup at all.
> 
> ...


Yes there were of course the other things you mentioned, they were so minor (in my consideration) as to not go into every minute detail. I just don't know why they don't take the opportunity to do something truely exciting with the Mini, there are so many convergence opportunities for it and Apple just doesn't seem to want to go down that path, I really don't get it.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

hhk said:


> So disappointing. Still, I may pull the trigger on the Mini just for the dual display feature. But I'm a bit confused about the Mini DisplayPort and the mini-DVI. I have a monitor with a DVI port and a monitor with a HDMI port. Which goes to which and what extras do I have to buy?


You would need a DVI-to-HDMI cable, and then a mini-DVI-to-DVI adapter (included). If you're going to connect the HDMI monitor to the Mini DisplayPort instead of the mini-DVI port, you would need a Mini DisplayPort-to-DVI adapter (not included).

EDIT: Or what fyrefly said.


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

Admant said:


> They should have held off on this re-fresh until the fall and hopefully a stronger economy.


Oh, please no! I couldn't take _another_ six months of, "When's a good time to buy a Mac" or "When do you think they'll update ***Mac" threads. XX) This refresh should shut people up for at least a little while... :clap:


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## JumboJones (Feb 21, 2001)

cchaynes said:


> i must have a number pad
> 
> it seems to be an option now, but still no wireless with number pad


Really, is this too much to ask for?


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## nick24 (Jul 11, 2006)

Airport Extreme ($199) and the Time Capsules ($349 and $529) are now simultaneous dual band - 802.11n (for n enabled devices) and 802.11g for iPhone, older macs etc. Single band Extreme drops to $179.


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## benmossm (Mar 10, 2008)

Weird how the lower end iMacs are now coming with integrated graphics.
And like people have been saying, there has been zero speed boost. They have basically taken out the 2.8ghz configruation.
Interesting to note as well that the most you wait for shipping on the GeForce 130 and below, is 3-5 days, yet as soon as you switch up to the ATI HD 4850 it becomes 4-6 weeks. I guess Mac is going pro Nvidia now.


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## 8127972 (Sep 8, 2005)

The IT Nerd has given ehMac a plug by calling us fanbois again. But he did note that the MacBook Pros were updated as well. 

Apple Updates Desktop Macs And More…. Canadian Fanbois Unimpressed [UPDATE] The IT Nerd


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

Admant said:


> It looks like they are trying to increase their profit margin on this re-fresh... Bad timing for price bumps Apple. When every other manufacturer is lowering prices.


No, just playing catchup to the sinking CDN$, like all the other computer manufacturers.

The Mini is still $599 USD. Which in equal currency is now $770 CAD, so they're giving us a little break even lol.



Admant said:


> They should have held off on this re-fresh until the fall and hopefully a stronger economy.


Desktop sales tanked over Xmas, and I'm sure they're not much better now. They need to stimulate sales somehow. All of the updated systems were in bad need of an update... and these updates (at least the iMac/Mac Mini ones) have been ready to go since Nov/Dec last year (at least according to rumours). All the more reason for an update now - to set in place the new product cycle update:

Q1: Desktops
Q2: iPhone (June)
Q3: iPods (Sept - back to school)
Q4: Laptops (Late Oct, Early Nov - Before XMas)


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## benmossm (Mar 10, 2008)

Anyone know what the current name for the GeForce GT 130 & 120 is? I read that NVIDIA will be updating their card names to these at some point in the G96 G94 and G92 chipsets.
I think its the GeForce 9600 GT for the 130 but I'm not sure.


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## kevkwas (Feb 24, 2004)

What processor are they using on the high end imac??? Is it the same as the old "Extreme" model.


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## Admant (Jun 9, 2003)

fyrefly said:


> Admant said:
> 
> 
> > It looks like they are trying to increase their profit margin on this re-fresh... Bad timing for price bumps Apple. When every other manufacturer is lowering prices./quote]
> ...


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## jrichardson (Mar 9, 2007)

I can't wait to get a new iMac :love2:


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## Admant (Jun 9, 2003)

jrichardson said:


> I can't wait to get a new iMac :love2:


That's the kind of attitude we all need to have to fix the mess we are in.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Bottom End mini still requires HD and RAM upgrade to be usable. Too bad the high end is not available sans Bluetooth and Airport. Could be priced about the same as the low end model and would do what needs to be done right out of the box. The SuperDrive was a given as they are no more expensive than combo drives.

Still I may pick one up in the US sometime when I don't mind losing a couple of hours at the border or am not returning via Coutts.


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## kgeorge78 (Sep 8, 2003)

ouch!!!!!!!!!

For the first time in my fanboy mac life, I will not be purchasing a new IMac or MacPro.

The cost is just outragous for the new macpro.


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## Elric (Jul 30, 2005)

FINALLY, My Mini!

How long til these hit shelves usually?


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

kgeorge78 said:


> ouch!!!!!!!!!
> 
> For the first time in my fanboy mac life, I will not be purchasing a new IMac or MacPro.
> 
> The cost is just outragous for the new macpro.


Crazy expensive to upgrade to the 8 core 2.93GHz $6,919.00 and that is with everything else base. $7000 crazy, crazy, crazy!!!


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## benmossm (Mar 10, 2008)

haha, the link for the mac mini at the bottom (either the picture or the "Buy Now") both go to the Mac Pro page
Edit: Link
On top of that, it goes to the US page


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## IAmCanadian (Jan 15, 2009)

*Why I LOVE Apple*



Admant said:


> That's the kind of attitude we all need to have to fix the mess we are in.


And Apple has just told me that I can exchange my two month old iMac for a new 4GB'er. With service like this I will always open my wallet to them not matter how deep a recession. Now I need recommendations on which spec to go with.


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

I'm confused about this one:
"...
All Mac Pro graphics cards support two Apple displays. To connect two 24-inch Apple LED Cinema Displays, an additional NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 graphics card is required.
..."

No hurry ... I won't be running out to buy a new MacPro this week, but for those of you who are Mac sales pros, what on earth does that mean, in my first language?


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## cchaynes (Oct 25, 2007)

IAmCanadian said:


> And Apple has just told me that I can exchange my two month old iMac for a new 4GB'er. With service like this I will always open my wallet to them not matter how deep a recession. Now I need recommendations on which spec to go with.


wow

that is impressive!

add another mac to the refurb store!


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## imobile (Oct 6, 2007)

*Impressive ... yes*



cchaynes said:


> wow
> 
> that is impressive!
> 
> add another mac to the refurb store!



But as a shareholder I do not want Mr Cook et al in Mr Job's hiatus to giveth away the Store!

Now if only Steve ate beef .....(oh no, the Attack of The Vegans * is coming)


Disclaimer : I do love Vegemite!


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

gordguide said:


> I'm confused about this one:
> "...
> All Mac Pro graphics cards support two Apple displays. To connect two 24-inch Apple LED Cinema Displays, an additional NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 graphics card is required.
> ..."
> ...


You aren't reading it correctly.

And I quote: "To connect *two* 24-inch Apple LED Cinema Displays..." It's referring specifically to the Apple 24-inch LED display. Each video card that ships with the Mac Pro has just a single Mini DisplayPort, meaning if you wanted to hook up two Apple 24-inch LED displays, you would need two video cards, each with a single Mini DisplayPort on them.

The Apple 24-inch LED requires a Mini DisplayPort while the Apple 30-inch display requires just a standard sized DVI port. So technically, yes, each video card in the Mac Pro can hold two Apple displays, just not two 24-inch LED displays.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

gordguide said:


> I'm confused about this one:
> "...
> All Mac Pro graphics cards support two Apple displays. To connect two 24-inch Apple LED Cinema Displays, an additional NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 graphics card is required.
> ..."
> ...


I'm no tech but there is one DVI port and one DisplayPort port on the video cards so you could put an older non-LED ACD using the DVI port, plus an LED ACD on the the display port connection using one card. To use two LED ACD's you would need two gaphic cards to get two DisplayPort ports.


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

Compared to the 2007~08 average (take 20% off) and, just for giggles, the Dec 07 peak (take 40% off) prices are consistent with a downward trend.

You can whine about the currency values but in my experience it won't help (and I'll leave the room and go get a beer somewhere, with people who are glad to be above ground, had a hot meal today, not on a gurney, and out of jail. Call me when you're done).

But, I'm a little disappointed in some stalwart ehMac'ers. I do read the posts, you know. After reading about Carbon-this and Recycle-that and Sure-It-Might-Cost-A-Bit-More-But-Saving-The-Planet-Is-Worth-It for months and years, when we see an across-the-board revision to the entire product line that significantly addresses manufacturing and component issues regarding environmental practices (eg: eliminating PVC triples the cost of cabling; and Apple has eliminated it not just from cabling but also from all PCBs, which is way more than I expected or anyone else does) we get whining about what it costs, and drooling over their perfectly good keyboards with nary a thought as to what will happen with the perfectly working machine they just used to post with.

What, you thought this was going to be free?

The Mini gets the environmental initiatives and comparing the old and new is a very good example of what that costs.

I'm very impressed by the MacPro Desktop revision. Reminds me of the last G5 and the QuickSilver 2001 revisions, where everything got twice as fast overnight. In fact, after almost a decade since I switched (as soon as I could afford it) from an All-In-One Performa to a desktop, I don't need the desktop's power; it's overkill for me.

By the way, I used that Performa for _seven years_ before I could justify replacing it.

For those who drool, and truly do have tired, worn out Macs on their desktops, wait a few months and prices _should_ fall a bit. The first revision is always expensive; once they get a handle on sales and the necessary production figures, costs will go down.


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## IAmCanadian (Jan 15, 2009)

gordguide said:


> Compared to the 2007~08 average (take 20% off) and, just for giggles, the Dec 07 peak (take 40% off) prices are consistent with a downward trend.
> 
> You can whine about the currency values but in my experience it won't help (and I'll leave the room and go get a beer somewhere, with people who are glad to be above ground, had a hot meal today, not on a gurney, and out of jail. Call me when you're done).
> 
> What, you thought this was going to be free?


I like how you think and emulate your thoughts.


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## imobile (Oct 6, 2007)

*Amen!*



gordguide said:


> Compared to the 2007~08 average (take 20% off) and, just for giggles, the Dec 07 peak (take 40% off) prices are consistent with a downward trend.
> 
> You can whine about the currency values but in my experience it won't help (and I'll leave the room and go get a beer somewhere, with people who are glad to be above ground, had a hot meal today, not on a gurney, and out of jail. Call me when you're done).
> 
> ...


Well said!
We are a spoiled mob!


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

What we're supposed to applaud that because they had a very poor environmental record and now they are passing the cost of cleanup onto the consumer? I would applaud if they cleaned up their act and sucked it up and ate the cost. Then I would applaud.


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## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

screature said:


> What we're supposed to applaud that because they had a very poor environmental record and now they are passing the cost of cleanup onto the consumer? I would applaud if they cleaned up their act and sucked it up and ate the cost. Then I would applaud.


Apple is a for-profit corporation that sells products. The cost of everything comes from the consumer. Where do you think this cost "to eat" is going to come from?


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

Apple has an excellent environmental record overall and significantly better than the majority of the computer industry and the electronics industry in general.

They were a target of Greenpeace, because they are a popular cultural icon and get Greenpeace in the news where attacking H-P goes zero press except in the back pages of CNET.

However, if you don't like the prices, I see DELL is still making computers.

" ... I would applaud if they cleaned up their act and sucked it up and ate the cost. Then I would applaud. ..."

Mmmmmm. Beeeeer.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

hayesk said:


> Apple is a for-profit corporation that sells products. The cost of everything comes from the consumer. Where do you think this cost "to eat" is going to come from?


I DON"T expect them to eat the cost never said I did. I said if they did then I would applaud that. Hey it is great that they are cleaning up their act and being responsible. But just like you don't cheer that a Hybrid car costs an arm and a leg I'm not going to cheer that it costs more to go green with computers.

Additionally it is a game of margins, if it costs more to build green obviously a balance must be struck between unit costs and how much you can maintain your margin (purchase price) before people stop buying because they can't afford your product. Being green is meaningless if people aren't willing to pay the price of being green. It is a balancing act and the coming quarters will tell if Apple is maintaining the right balance.


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

Just ordered a new Mini!


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

gordguide said:


> Apple has an excellent environmental record overall...
> 
> However, if you don't like the prices, I see DELL is still making computers.


Excellent environmental record overall... hmm, questionable: Is Apple improving its environmental record, or is it just spin?

Dell???? :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: No I will just stick with the Macs I have thank you very much.


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## MACinist (Nov 17, 2003)

Vexel said:


> Just ordered a new Mini!


People still buy Leafs tickets too..


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

gordguide said:


> I'm very impressed by the MacPro Desktop revision. Reminds me of the last G5 and the QuickSilver 2001 revisions, where everything got twice as fast overnight...


In some sythetic tests 2.4x as fast. But most of the real world tests are in the 50% faster range. In some cases 20% and in some 10% and that is by buying the top of the line 2.93GHz 8 core which has a base price of $6900 before taxes and any upgrades.  You may be impressed, but I think there will be a LOT of sticker shock and most performance hungry people out there will be looking for discounts on the previous gen MacPros before forking over that kind of change.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

Vexel said:


> Just ordered a new Mini!


Which model? Any BTO upgrades? I'm on the verge of ordering one myself.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I;m trying to figure out the deal with the shared graphics of the 9400m versus the 2600xt in the 2.8 iMac


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

Taking a closer look at the Mini, it looks like a decent refresh on a machine built to minimize cost.

Comparing the low-end new Mini ~463LL/A (MSRP $C 729) to the former high-end MB139LL/A (MSRP $C 849 on 24FE09))

There is a new, faster variant of the Core2Duo CPU installed.
There is another MB of on-chip cache (total 3MB); any improvement to CPU cache significantly improves real-world performance;
The system bus speed moves from 667 Mhz to 1066 Mhz, a signifcant real-world speed improvement;
Memory moves from 667 Mhz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300) to 1066 Mhz DDR3 SDRAM (PC3-8500) a significant real-world speed improvement;
Supports 4GB RAM over the older units 2GB maximum;
Memory architecture has 64-bit address space, allowing for more than 3GB RAM to be addressed;
(Note: There is a significant security feature to prevent malware attacks that will be implemented in OSX 10.6 that cannot be implemented in a 32-bit memory address space);
Graphics get a major chipset upgrade and support for 128 MB RAM versus 64MB; note too that the shared video memory is now 1066 Mhz DDR3 instead of 667 Mhz DDR2;
Firewire 800 vs 400; 5 external USB buses versus 4;
Wireless N instead of Wireless G.

Compared to the previous low-end model ($C 649 on 28FE09), for the $C 70 extra it's a no-brainer. *

Bargain hunters can (for a short while) pick up the refurb version of the previous hi-end model for $C 550 or go low budget and get a very decent Mac in a refurb ~138LL/A 1.83 GHz for $499, each with a new computer warranty.

In either case, along with some careful non-Apple or used-Apple bargain shopping you could have a complete working system with a 19" Flat Panel for about $600.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

gordguide said:


> Graphics get a major chipset upgrade and support for 128 MB RAM versus 64MB;


Which is actually 256 MB if the system has 2GB of real RAM or more installed. (128 MB if only 1GB of real RAM is available.)


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

Lars said:


> Which model? Any BTO upgrades? I'm on the verge of ordering one myself.


Just the base model, I'm going to add a new HD and some RAM to it when I can.


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

I have no intention of taking anything Greenpeace says about anything seriously.

That link, by the way, goes to a story that is more than a year old, and doesn't show much effort to begin with, which, I guess, is no surprise; the banner proudly proclaims "the insignificant ramblings from a disturbed graphic designer". Alexa page rank for the entire domain runs around 570,000. Nice stuff.

That's not to say every issue Greenpeace espouses doesn't deserve to be taken seriously; on the contrary. It means simply that Greenpeace has no credibility with me, and they earned that by proving over a very long time that they are ethically bankrupt. They take away from the debate with self-serving distractions when what we need is focus on the issues.

As far as I'm concerned, while the rest of us do what we can to make the world better, feed the hungry and get on with our lives, they go on pointless forays on the high seas, poke the world with attention-seeking sensationalism to feed their incessant need for diesel fuel and high tech gadgets ... no, wait, I meant "good work" ... and see nothing wrong with outright lying if in the end it gets them what they want.

I've always maintained and I've said it many times here on ehMac ... don't lie to the world because you believe it doesn't matter what you say or do as long as people do what you want in the end. People will stop listening to you, and they might stop listening about the good cause you represent.

I've said it about the health care field (where it's rife) and I've said it about others. When I was a teen, I watched good, smart kids go down terrible, one-way paths because they figured out that the teachers, the cops, and their parents lied to them about marijuana, so they naturally concluded that teachers, cops and parents are compulsive liars who say anything to get you to do what they want.

People are not stupid and people want to do the right thing. Don't p*ss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

Please note that Greenpeace doesn't give a damn what _you_ want, and they have only a passing interest in how healthy you and your children are, or even if you're breathing. The poor and the disadvantaged need their diesel money.

Responsible parents try to teach their 3-year olds that the world includes other people besides themselves, but obviously some fail, and we pay the price.

There is plenty of information for anyone who cares to look; and most of it shows that Apple does pay more than just lip service to the idea, and didn't just start yesterday. Apple was RoHS compliant long before the July 06 deadline; many companies had to stop shipping to Europe for months and some simply quit the market.

Anyone who has been involved in any industry can tell you if you don't put it on the agenda first it doesn't get done second.

You can always ask for more, and I certainly won't suggest anyone doesn't, but looking the evidence in the face and then lying about it doesn't make Greenpeace right.

From the article you cited:
"... Criticized ... Apple's reluctance to institute a take-back solution for electronics recycling. ..."

" ... But while customers in the US will be able to return their Apple products for recycling knowing that their gear won't end up in the e-waste mountains of Asia and India, Apple isn't making that promise to anyone but customers in the USA. Elsewhere in the world, an Apple product today can still be tomorrow's e-waste. Other manufacturers offer worldwide takeback and recycling. Apple should too!" ..."

Apple started the Take-Back program in Canada in 2001. In the USA in 2001. In every country in Europe; in Japan; in Taiwan. All predate that article by at least 5 years.

Today, 95% of the markets Apple sells to has a Take-Back program. More than a year ago, when Greenpeace accused Apple of ignoring recycling outside the US, it was 75% of those markets. Part of that Take-Back program is that Apple also voluntarily accepts any brand of cellphone into it's program, and will recycle your old computer, monitor, and peripherals made by any manufacturer when you buy a new Mac.

Again, at the time the article you cited was written, 32% of the weight of every item Apple sold in the previous 7 years had been recycled through Apple's own recycling program. By weight, Apple is able to fully recycle 90% of all the products it accepts, and again the goal is to go to 100%.

There are plenty of examples of people Apple competes directly with that have to be dragged screaming and kicking into doing the right thing. Believe it or not, by targeting and lying about Apple Greenpeace is really trying to get these others to change.

There is news in any story that has Greenpeace and Apple in the same headline ... this is not rocket science. There is always a space between any two lines of text ... read between them, that's where the news lives.

Greenpeace is full of **** and is grandstanding because that's what they do. I can only hope that they someday find themselves in that special hell where PETA members not only go when they die, but get to make the rules.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

gordguide said:


> I have no intention of getting into a debate with Greenpeace by proxy with anyone...


Hey cool your jets gg, I'm no tree huggin' Lexus driver. The links in the article I posted were what was of interest. The fact remains that Apple is and was no saint when it comes to their environmental record, to say otherwise just isn't so. 

As I said in another post it is great that they are making efforts, it costs money to go green I think we all get it, but it doesn't mean we have to stand up and cheer when that expense is passed down the line to the consumer and the manufactures continue to maintain their margins.

Perhaps this link to the Wall Street Journal and the date of Dec. 31 2008 will be more "credible" for you. How Green Is Apple?


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## Boruce Lee (Mar 3, 2009)

*Old Mac Pro's still good value*

Well, I'm glad that I still have my previous gen single quad 2.8 GHz. I was thinking about trading it in a few weeks back to get a new Mac in anticipation of these announcements. But now I'm glad I hung on to it.

I think the exchange rate is what really killed it for us Canadians. 25% difference vs this time last year. Well, at least our exporters can afford to hire workers again. 

I think anyone who can pickup a previous gen Mac Pro should run out and do so. Given the direction of exchange rates, new Macs will only cost more in the future, so these previous gen ones will hold their value for much much longer.


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## nutsngum (Jul 20, 2005)

Is there enough juice in the high-end Mac Mini to run Aperture and Photoshop?


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## mikeinmontreal (Oct 13, 2005)

I am going to follow Firefly's advice and pick up a refurb Mac Mini in the morning....or whenever I can snag one. Thanks FF. Refurbs rock. To RFD we go!!!!!!!


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

Tne Wall Street Journal article takes Greenpeace's accusations as fact, which I proved in my post were outright lies.

It's a filler piece with no attempt to check the facts. Just because it's in the Journal does not mean any attention was paid to writing it.

You did notice that it was picked up from the Dow Jones Newswire. This is meant to be sent to newspapers worldwide as filler and if they publish it, a few bucks in DJ's pocket. It appeared on New Years Eve, for God's sake.

They quote DELL (in the always-informative one word quote, "surprised"), Greenpeace (either clueless or with an agenda, depending on your perspective) and AMR Research (similar to Gartner, Jupiter, Yankee Group) who accuse Apple of a "marketing ploy" but back that up with nothing.

They criticize Apple for being quiet on Environmental Information and then quote an executive with Diffusion Group, who says "Chalk it up to effective marketing". when told a poll found consumers saw Apple as a "green company".

Diffusion Group sells research reports on Technology issues at $2499 a pop, but checking the site reveals not one research report on the environmental anything whatsoever, going back to the company's founding on 1 January 2005. You would think at that kind of coin they would at least publish 10 pages on it and make a buck. I guess no-one wants to pay 2500 bucks for something "chalked up".

And on, and on.

Listen, the WSJ is a paper like any other, and needs filler like they all do. There is no credible, well researched story on this subject for the simple reason that it's bogus.

Like I said, Apple is not perfect but the record shows the accusations are more about getting readers to read than any serious attempt to look at the issue. Bashing Apple gets readers, and it doesn't matter if you preach to the choir as long as the advertisers see someone in the choir looked at the ad.


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## mac_geek (May 14, 2005)

Woo hoo! I placed my order for a 24" iMac tonight... 2.93Ghz, upgraded video to ATI HD 4850, kept the stock RAM and HD.

Here's the skinny:

iMac, 24-inch, 2.93GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
640GB Serial ATA Drive
iWork '09 preinstalled
Apple Keyboard with Numeric Keypad (English) and User's Guide
Apple Wireless Mighty Mouse
ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB
2.93GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB

Stated delivery is shipping April 14, to my door by April 21st.

Oh, and yes - on this machine, I absolutely purchased Applecare.


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## cchaynes (Oct 25, 2007)

mac_geek said:


> Woo hoo! I placed my order for a 24" iMac tonight... 2.93Ghz, upgraded video to ATI HD 4850, kept the stock RAM and HD.
> 
> Here's the skinny:
> 
> ...


why so long the 3.06 shows 3-5 days to ship?


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

cchaynes said:


> why so long the 3.06 shows 3-5 days to ship?


The ATI video card ups the delay by ~30 days or so. We're not sure why yet.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

You know, I think there are more announcements to come this month. Just a feeling.


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## mac_geek (May 14, 2005)

fyrefly said:


> The ATI video card ups the delay by ~30 days or so. We're not sure why yet.


From the speculation that I've read on various sites, the ATI card requires the not yet released 10.5.7 - so it's possible that the hardware is not the bottleneck on the delivery time.


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## cchaynes (Oct 25, 2007)

perhaps but not in the imac lineup, it would have been nice if the updated OS had shipped, when is snow leopard due out?


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## maximusbibicus (Feb 25, 2002)

Anyone else miffed that there is no HDMI port in the Mini? Low end PC's are available with them, I am curious as to why Apple chose not to include it. 

Perhaps they don't want it to compete with Apple TV?


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## Elric (Jul 30, 2005)

maximusbibicus said:


> Anyone else miffed that there is no HDMI port in the Mini? Low end PC's are available with them, I am curious as to why Apple chose not to include it.
> 
> Perhaps they don't want it to compete with Apple TV?


The converters are dirt cheap, I'm not miffed. It just would have increased the price more if they included it.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

I'm regularly baffled why in the world you want an HDMI connector on _any_ Mac.

*Perhaps they don't want it to compete with Apple TV?*

No.. really? 

The Mac mini is _not_ designed as a competitor, never mind a replacement, to the AppleTV.


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## Elric (Jul 30, 2005)

I'm going to use mine on my TV.  But yeah, I don't care that it doesn't have it.


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## maximusbibicus (Feb 25, 2002)

Lars said:


> I'm regularly baffled why in the world you want an HDMI connector on _any_ Mac.


What's so baffling about that? Some of us like to connect our computer to our TV. HDMI is a clean one cable solution to this. HDMI is readily available on most low end PC's so its not a reach to ask for it, technology wise.


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## cchaynes (Oct 25, 2007)

especially for a mini

some may choose to use a TV as their monitor (dom room etc)

C


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

Lars said:


> I'm regularly baffled why in the world you want an HDMI connector on _any_ Mac.
> 
> *Perhaps they don't want it to compete with Apple TV?*
> 
> ...


The reality is, a lot of people look at the AppleTV and then they look at the Mini and buy the Mini, for the same purpose. 

Just Google "Mac Mini Home Theater" and there are reams of pages dedicated to optimizing the Mini as an HTPC.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

hhk said:


> The reality is, a lot of people look at the AppleTV and then they look at the Mini and buy the Mini, for the same purpose.
> 
> Just Google "Mac Mini Home Theater" and there are reams of pages dedicated to optimizing the Mini as an HTPC.


It isn't relevant. Regardless of what people actually do, Apple has not designed the Mac mini to replace the AppleTV, hence possibly why the mini does not sport an HDMI connector.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

They couldn't design the Mini to replace Apple TV because the Mini existed first.


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## IAmCanadian (Jan 15, 2009)

fyrefly said:


> The ATI video card ups the delay by ~30 days or so. We're not sure why yet.


Is there an advantage to the ATI video card? I'm buying tomorrow and want your thoughts.


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## MACinist (Nov 17, 2003)

*http://www.ehmac.ca/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=794141*



> Usually, I have an opinion on everything (as you’ve probably noticed), but I’m undecided as to whether Apple should include HDMI ports on at least some future Macs. Let me give you some pros and cons on the issue, and you tell me what you think.
> 
> As adoption of HDMI ports approaches 100 percent in digital televisions, the interface is now moving into set top boxes, DVD equipment and mobile computers, reports In-Stat. Overall, HDMI-enabled product shipments will increase at an annual rate of 23 percent between 2007 and 2012, according to the research group.
> 
> ...


Macsimum News - Time for Apple to include HDMI ports on at least some Macs?


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

Lars said:


> It isn't relevant. Regardless of what people actually do, Apple has not designed the Mac mini to replace the AppleTV, hence possibly why the mini does not sport an HDMI connector.


Are you saying Apple is not or should not be interested in what their customers do with their computers? Wow man, I'm glad you don't work in my marketing department.


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

By using the video out connector on the Mini and a combination of adapters, you can connect it to an ordinary television, a VCR, an analog monitor, a digital monitor or a digital television using any of the connectors found ever used on any of these devices going back two decades. I fail to see what the problem is.


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## MACinist (Nov 17, 2003)

gordguide said:


> By using the video out connector on the Mini and a combination of adapters, you can connect it to an ordinary television, a VCR, an analog monitor, a digital monitor or a digital television using any of the connectors found ever used on any of these devices going back two decades. I fail to see what the problem is.


Not a problem but an inconvenience. Apple is the number one preacher of less clutter and less cables. It would be nice to use a single cable to transmit digital sound and video to a TV rather than have multiple cables with tacky adapters.


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