# Car Battery in Cold Weather



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

I need some advice/tips on the above topic in question. As the temperature seems to be nearing -20 C here in Toronto, I'm becoming a little nervous that my car battery (and/or components) will begin to go dead as the car is parked outside in the open behind my home. I'm looking into investing in an engine block heater, but would like to know all my options beforehand. I drive the car around 15-20 minutes per day, if possible, either for work purposes or just to ensure the engine gets a workout and doesn't sit freezing cold and stiff for several days at a time. It's a 2005 Mazda3, and I am not sure what kind of weather exactly it takes to start making trouble for the car. Tips/advice/experiences?


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

My 10 year old Nissan Altima and I have lived in Southern Ontario, mostly Toronto, through we had a couple of years in Kitchener which is perhaps a degree or two colder on average.

Until this year, I always parked outdoors. I believe that I am on the car's original battery--I've never replaced it, and I don't think the previous owner (first 3 years of the car) did.

Never had a problem starting the car due to cold weather. 

My brother and parents have always parked outdoors in Toronto--also no problems with a cold weather start as far back as I can recall. 

The only people I've ever met in Toronto who have a block heater on their car are people who used to live in Sudbury. Most people here don't have them--no need for it in Toronto.


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## Chris (Feb 8, 2001)

When I lived in Toronto, I had a car that didn't have a block heater, and I just didn't want the hassle of getting one installed. So I bought a battery blanket and used it regularly. I was never stranded. The battery always had enough juice, since it was kept warm.

For Toronto, it's a good option. Of course now, being older and grumpier  I insist on a block heater AND a battery blanket. It's always worked for me.


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## Bolor (Sep 14, 2003)

At -20 you should be able to get away with nothing. Also, wind chill is NOT a factor in starting your car. With your battery less than two years old, you should have no trouble starting your car.
Now if you are living where I do ....


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

You're fretting about nothing. I own five vehicles and I never even consider plugging one in unless it gets to be minus 30. Any new vehicle such as yours will start fine and suffer no damage at all sitting outside. You can leave it without even starting it for a week with no worries. My motor home and one collector car sit outside for five months without starting and fire right up in the spring. Don't waste your money on battery blankets or the like either. They are simply gimmicks to get you to spend money unnecessarily in that area of Canada. I know. I lived there for seven winters.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

Thanks for the all the advice, guys.  Looks like opinion majority here is that a heater is unnecessary. So be it!


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## BDD (Jan 25, 2010)

Hello fellow Mac users. Odd question to find on a Mac website but fitting for me.

I have a 2006 Chevy Impala. Last Tuesday it wouldn't start. Had to get it jump started. Ran till this past Saturday. Wouldn't start again yesterday. 

I now know it's not because my car has been sitting outside in near -20C. I mean it was fine this past December when it was almost that cold. Would start immediately. No hesitations. So perhaps I have an alternator problem now or possibly a faulty battery? 

Will be taking it to the shop tomorrow. After I get it jump started again. 

If I have to replace the battery I'm thinking of getting a "spiral grid" battery (e.g. Motomaster Eliminator from Canadian Tire...770 cca). Recommendations? I'm assuming my current battery is rated bellow 600 cca. 

And how much approximately would a replacement alternator run me? I know in the US it ranges from $100-300 USD. 

Thanks.


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

You could take the battery into the shop and have routine maintenance. That is clean the terminals, and connectors, check the electrolyte and levels. They can also test the reseve cranking power to simulate cold stress on your battery. 

The cleaning of terminals and connectors can save you in cold weather.

Also and this counter intuitive but in really cold temperatures, before you crank your starter, turn the radio and blower fan on for a few seconds (10-15 seconds) to "warm up" the flow of electrons. This will give the starter a boast and it will spin faster.


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## BDD (Jan 25, 2010)

Thanks BigDL. I'm sure the guys at the shop will first clean the battery and do the testing. But that is good to have in mind.

Having the radio and fan on for a few seconds before starting? News to me. But will try later. I'm guessing it's now too late to try.  

Any how, it's going to the shop tomorrow. Will report again tomorrow night. Hoping I won't need to replace the battery and/or alternator. Should be either or.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

At -20°C A good battery should be more than up to the task at hand. If it seems weak, check to be sure the cable connections at the battery and starter motor are clean.

Other than that a clogged air filter can make starting iffy. Also be sure you are using the recommended oil viscosity for your conditions. Probably 5W-20 for winter. Heavier oils can be slow to circulate on cold mornings and cause unnecessary wear and tear on the engine.


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

eMacMan said:


> At -20°C A good battery should be more than up to the task at hand. If it seems weak, check to be sure the cable connections at the battery and starter motor are clean.
> 
> Other than that a clogged air filter can make starting iffy. Also be sure you are using the recommended oil viscosity for your conditions. Probably 5W-20 for winter. Heavier oils can be slow to circulate on cold mornings and cause unnecessary wear and tear on the engine.


Good call on the oil, however many engins today specify only one type oil year round. So many old maxims are going by the way.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

BigDL said:


> Good call on the oil, however many engins today specify only one type oil year round. So many old maxims are going by the way.


Usually if they do the recommended selection is 5W-20 with 10W-30 listed as OK in very hot climates. Certainly unless you have oil leaks no harm in going to the light oils in winter, but if 10W-30 is the normal recommendation be sure to switch back come spring.


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## BDD (Jan 25, 2010)

Just had a tune-up in November (09). Actually replaced the air filter with a new one. So it's not that. 

Dirty contacts? Perhaps. Again, all routine battery maintenance and checks will be done. Though, that was also done during my car's tune-up last Nov. So if it's anything to do with the battery I'll be a little surprised. I'm leaning more towards the alternator being slightly defective. 

Will find out tomorrow. But thanks for the suggestions.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

eMacMan said:


> Also be sure you are using the recommended oil viscosity for your conditions. Probably 5W-20 for winter. Heavier oils can be slow to circulate on cold mornings and cause unnecessary wear and tear on the engine.


A good point, but the type of oil being used should not affect the car's ability to crank over and start the engine. I run fully synthetic oil in my '10 Mazda3, 5W30, and have zero issues.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Lars said:


> A good point, but the type of oil being used should not affect the car's ability to crank over and start the engine. I run fully synthetic oil in my '10 Mazda3, 5W30, and have zero issues.


Sorry Lars, but that is just wrong. The viscosity of oil has EVERYTHING to do with the starter's ability to turn over an engine.

For example 40 weight oil turns into a butter-like gel at low temps and causes the starter to require much more battery power to turn the crankshaft through it. 

5W on the other hand allows it to spin like through water.

That is precisely why modern oils are 5W-30 as they do not turn to butter in low temps. But to say the type of oil makes no difference is just plain wrong.

When oils only came in single weights we would change from a 30W to a winter rated 10W back in the 1950s.

And what do you suppose a block heater actually does when you plug in a car, like thousands of Canadians do every winter?

P'ssst, it heats the oil to keep it runny and liquid to allow the starter to turn over the crankshaft.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

A lot of mechanics will clean battery terminals and connections but skip the starter motor end, probably because the starter motor in modern cars can be difficult to reach. If air cleaner is clean, battery terminals are clean and connections are firm, and the battery is good; the next place to check is the starter motor connections.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

I stand corrected. Learn something new everyday.  Except according to Wikipedia, a block heater warms the engine's coolant, not the oil. Oil heaters are available as well, though I have no idea if that's the norm, or if block heaters these days warm both the coolant and oil at the same time.


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

Lars said:


> I stand corrected. Learn something new everyday.  Except according to Wikipedia, a block heater warms the engine's coolant, not the oil. Oil heaters are available as well, though I have no idea if that's the norm, or if block heaters these days warm both the coolant and oil at the same time.


Correct. The block heater is in the coolant galley. Oil viscosity is supremely important. There is now 0-W30 synthetic for extreme cold.

To the OP. Does the 'battery' idiot light come on? Actually it is reading the alternator output and if it doesn't come on (except when you put the key in before the engine starts which it should as a test) the alternator is fine. Whenever i get this sort of symptoms, if all other indicators are good as your seem to be, I'd just replace the battery. Batteries aren't that expensive compared to the headaches they can create, lost time, inconvenience, etc. I don't necessarily get the "recommended" size/type of battery. I get the biggest, nastiest (in the good way), best warranteed, highest cranking amps battery I can cram in even if I have to modify the hold-down.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Lars said:


> I stand corrected. Learn something new everyday.  Except according to Wikipedia, a block heater warms the engine's coolant, not the oil. Oil heaters are available as well, though I have no idea if that's the norm, or if block heaters these days warm both the coolant and oil at the same time.


There are two separate types of block heaters Lars. In some engines they remove a frost plug and it goes into the block to heat the coolant and in others it is a circulating pump installed in the coolant line.

Either way, the sole purpose is to keep the block warm _which in turn keeps the oil warm_ which in turn allows the crankshaft to rotate more easily, thus making the starter spin the engine faster with less effort to start it up, thus the importance of oil viscosity if you don't use a block heater.

Your use of synthetic is the best of all worlds as your engine will spin easily without the use of an electric block heater saving electricity.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Lars said:


> A good point, but the type of oil being used should not affect the car's ability to crank over and start the engine. I run fully synthetic oil in my '10 Mazda3, 5W30, and have zero issues.


Wait, what, '10?? Congrats!  Although extra points if you have 263hp under that hood.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

dona83 said:


> Wait, what, '10?? Congrats!  Although extra points if you have 263hp under that hood.


Ha, no 'Speed3 for me yet.  Here's a photo taken in the fall (click for full resolution).


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

FWIW I swap batteries after 6 years. I know that they have another year or three left in them.

By swapping out early I have a battery that is in good shape. I run a trickle charge on it about every 6 weeks. Then if there is a power failure I can run the furnace via a small power inverter. Should be able to run the furnace five minutes every 45 minutes for at least 2 days.

Also gives me a booster battery without calling on the neighbour, though I have not needed a boost in the last 10 years.


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

One other item that I failed to mention in an earlier post was the fluid level in the battery. Todays batteries say they are maintenance free but that is not quite true.

The electrolyte (water acid mix) can become low and effect battery performance in cold weather. Your battery can even freeze and split if the specific gravity is too low.

For info on wet acid battery maintenance link lead acid battery maintenance


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Lars said:


> Ha, no 'Speed3 for me yet.  Here's a photo taken in the fall (click for full resolution).


Awesome ride! Which trim/options did you get? Nice photo too, which camera? 

Are you on torontomazda3.com by any chance? I'm on their BC counterpart, bcmazda3.com.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

dona83 said:


> Awesome ride! Which trim/options did you get? Nice photo too, which camera?
> 
> Are you on torontomazda3.com by any chance? I'm on their BC counterpart, bcmazda3.com.


I actually got the car in early May of 2009, so it's coming up on its first year shortly. I have the GT trim and moonroof option, but no leather, and no GT-E package upgrade (includes push button start and navigation). I find the GT trim w/moonrof comes loaded well enough and I didn't care enough for leather to pay another $1,995 for it at the time.

I am indeed on TM3, under the same username as I am here. I've heard of BC3; I'll check it out and perhaps introduce myself. 

Edit: Photo taken with Nikon SLR D40.


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## BDD (Jan 25, 2010)

Came back from the shop. Found out I had a bad battery and needed to be replaced. Wouldn't hold a charge high enough (must produce 9 volts minimum) charge. Said that even if I charged the battery it would never be able to produce the needed volts. So I ended up with a new AC-Delco (685 cca). Paid $170 including install. And he said the alternator is fine. Should have asked him how he knew? 

And he said at -20C, parked outside, you could leave the car for at most a week. Recently it' hasn't been colder than -10C so I guess I could do as much as 2 weeks. At 0 to -10C. Not that I would. I was curious to know. 

I asked him if I could use a battery with more cca (i.e. 770 cca). He said it's not recommended. Not to have too many cca. News to me.


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

BDD said:


> I asked him if I could use a battery with more cca (i.e. 770 cca). *He said it's not recommended*. Not to have too many cca. News to me.


That is 'shop talk' which translates into "we don't have one".... or "we can't be bothered figuring out which more powerful battery will fit"...

In my Honda Accord the battery space will accept a battery that is a bit bigger and taller and has nearly double the stock cold cranking amps compared to stock. No troubles. Those extra amps can come in handy... 

I have been going with over-spec batteries since I started driving and maintaining my own cars and IMHO it pays off in long and very cold spells, when using 12v accessories and boosting people who don't take care of their batteries....


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## BDD (Jan 25, 2010)

This shop orders their parts from a nearby supplier. 

I would have thought that more cca wouldn't hurt. Shops like Canadian Tire are selling batteries not targeted at any specific car. Like the Motomaster Eliminator rated at 770 cca. So I assumed it should be okay for most sedans. Assuming it fits in the original space for the original battery.

Any how, at least I now have a new battery (though the delivery guy carried it in the shop not in a box). Was clean though. Maybe they are shipped to suppliers in crates with 20 batteries. I don't know.

I have it in writing on my bill that this is a new battery and that it has a 5 year warranty. He initially neglected to write down "5 year warranty". Not sure if it would say so on the battery itself. This battery should suffice at 685 cca and last me almost 5 years. Tomorrow will be a test. Better start.


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