# R.I.P. Fidel Castro



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Fidel Castro, Cuba's leader of revolution, dies at 90*










Fidel Castro, Cuba's former president and leader of the Communist revolution, has died aged 90, his brother has said.

"The commander in chief of the Cuban revolution died at 22:29 hours this evening (03:29 GMT Saturday)," President Raul Castro said.​(BBC)​


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Just was going to post this Mark, but you beat me to it. He will long be remembered.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I thought it was click-bait on another site. For the sake of the Cuban people, I hope this allows some impetus for a re-set and improved relations between Cuba and the US.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I was in 5th grade when he came to power. Thoughts of Castro and Cuba truly hit our conscious radar during the Cuban missile crisis.

"For the sake of the Cuban people, I hope this allows some impetus for a re-set and improved relations between Cuba and the US. " Agreed, mi amigo. The US lifting it's embargo could be a good start. We shall see.


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## heavyall (Nov 2, 2012)

The end of an era. He will definitely be missed. 




Dr.G. said:


> The US lifting it's embargo could be a good start. We shall see.


The wet foot-dry foot policy has to end too.


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

Trudeau is an idiot - celebrating a terrorist butcher - who over threw a government and killed, jailed his citizens - of course trudeau looks up to Castro - Castro dying on black Friday, a day dedicated to capitalism, is icing on the cake.

Sadly Castro's brother is a mad man as well, plus has a son who can't wait to dictate.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*macintosh doctor*, respectfully (a notion you apparently lack), you have no idea what you're talking about.

Over the years I've had loooong debates with folks here in ehMac (go have a look). I won't regurgitate it here, nor will I waste my time with people who are unwilling to make an honest effort to evaluate Fidel's legacy. Reactionary, ideological rants are not helpful to any discourse.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Macfury said:


> I thought it was click-bait on another site.


Me too. I received a mobile notification while at a party. This has been reported so many times over the decades, those of us with ties to Cuba know enough to corroborate anything like that news. 



Macfury said:


> For the sake of the Cuban people, I hope this allows some impetus for a re-set and improved relations between Cuba and the US.


IMHO, that ain't gonna happen. The ideologues like Ileana Ros-Lehtinen and her ilk will only be emboldened. "One Castro down, one more to go" is their mantra. And with Trump coming into the White House, I'm not optimistic. 

Improved relations between Cuban and the US depend entirely on the US to change its insane policies toward this tiny country of 11-million people. 

It's never been about human rights, it's always been about Cuba's freeing itself of U.S. control. Any expression of concern by Washington for the "rights" of Cuban citizens to be "free" is simply cover for the desire to once again have the Cuban government do what the USA desired, to have it within America's sphere of influence. Cuba has always attempted to dialogue with the US to seek a normalization of relations. Its the USA that has consistently refused to come to the table and talk like a responsible, mature, state.

Cuba has never put an economic blockade upon the people of the USA.

Cuba never invaded U.S. territory and killed its citizens.

Cuba did not conduct biological warfare against U.S. farms.

Cuba did not attempt to assassinate (in the order of hundreds of incidents) US government leaders.

Cuba did not send or support terrorist groups acting on US soil.

Cuba did educate, feed, and care for the health of its citizens. It did spread out the limited resources of the country to all. It did pursue political and economic alliances with countries of its own choosing to ensure its survival in the face of superpower-strength aggressions. That's enough to get you on any U.S. President's hit list.


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

CubaMark said:


> *macintosh doctor*, respectfully (a notion you apparently lack), you have no idea what you're talking about.


You are leaving out a great deal of detail of his wake of bodies and repression in Castro's paradise of repression. 
Abolition of Private property, Confiscation of Private property - imprisonment of thousands with an opinion.
I am sure those who would attempt to float a truck as a life raft to flee Cuba, face death in the open seas did it because Castro was so amazing. 

I will not celebrate the death of evil dictator like our idiot Trudeau.. sorry.
enjoy your salty tears and fake glorification of Castro..

Castro's rule was state ownership of human beings.. which was slavery
And that free medical care and education only cost 200 000+ lives and countless human rights abuses. Awesome sauce. Good to see people know how to prioritize


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Whatever ones feelings about Castro it is wrong to ignore who it was that he helped overthrow. Batista was every bit as repressive a dictator as Castro and far more corrupt. 



> "I believe that there is no country in the world including any and all the countries under colonial domination, where economic colonization, humiliation and exploitation were worse than in Cuba, in part owing to my country's policies during the Batista regime. I approved the proclamation which Fidel Castro made in the Sierra Maestra, when he justifiably called for justice and especially yearned to rid Cuba of corruption. I will even go further: to some extent it is as though Batista was the incarnation of a number of sins on the part of the United States. Now we shall have to pay for those sins. In the matter of the Batista regime, I am in agreement with the first Cuban revolutionaries. That is perfectly clear."—U.S. President John F. Kennedy, interview with Jean Daniel, 24 October 1963


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2015/09/remembering-castros-crimes


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

eMacMan said:


> Whatever ones feelings about Castro it is wrong to ignore who it was that he helped overthrow. Batista was every bit as repressive a dictator as Castro and far more corrupt.


This.


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

eMacMan said:


> Whatever ones feelings about Castro it is wrong to ignore who it was that he helped overthrow. Batista was every bit as repressive a dictator as Castro and far more corrupt.


The embargo didn’t turn Cuba into a hellhole whose main tourism industry is inviting progressive Canadian pedophiles to rape its children. Castro did that with help from the dead guy on the red t-shirts. 'One of the greatest benefits of the revolution is that even our prostitutes are college graduates,' Castro told Oliver Stone


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

CubaMark said:


> IMHO, that ain't gonna happen. The ideologues like Ileana Ros-Lehtinen and her ilk will only be emboldened. "One Castro down, one more to go" is their mantra. And with Trump coming into the White House, I'm not optimistic.


Raul has shown some willingness to move on US goals as well. That would be necessary to thaw things out a little.


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

Macfury said:


> Raul has shown some willingness to move on US goals as well. That would be necessary to thaw things out a little.


For liberal progressives and other leftists, America must forever apologize for and feel guilty about every mistake made in its past, but Cuba? All is forgotten and forgiven, heck, even justified! Funny how that works.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

macintosh doctor said:


> For liberal progressives and other leftists, America must forever apologize for and feel guilty about every mistake made in its past, but Cuba? All is forgotten and forgiven, heck, even justified! Funny how that works.


Just hoping Raul might be less authoritarian.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Everything *macintosh doctor* has just posted shows me quite clearly that there's no sense in attempting to educate him. Some minds are incapable of moving beyond what they think they know, regardless of reality.

I'll simply say that I'm quite confident that after more than two decades of Cuba-focused research, 19 research / education visits to the island, having visited communities and Cubans from Pinar del Río in the West to Santiago de Cuba in the East and many points between, to longtime adult friendships with Cubans both on and off the island, and having completed Doctoral work on Human Development in Cuba, I daresay - if you'll permit a brief moment of suppression of my humility - that I have a little bit more of a clue about Castro and Cuba than someone who believes that Cuba has invited "progressive Canadian pedophiles to rape its children."

Go away, little troll, back to your regularly scheduled worshipping of The Donald and his Beauty Queen Appointees of the Apocalypse.


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

Macfury said:


> Just hoping Raul might be less authoritarian.


doubt it very much it is all smoke and mirrors.. 
Cuba is your friend until they have used you up to achieve what they wanted then will dispose of you in whatever manor they see fit.. i know many who do business in cuba - nothing has changed at all. Corruption is still alive and well.
Vaughan man jailed in Cuba maintains he's innocent: family | CTV Toronto News

Remember when you vacation in cuba, you are guilty until proven guilty. How many Canadians are in jail for just being passengers in taxis who were in accidents.

but here is hoping the second Castro of Terror is less deviating than the first.

Again I will not celebrate a murdering thug's legacy - who killed thousands and oppressed 1000s during his life, i am embarrassed that we have an idiot Trudeau - speaking highly of the murderous butcher that Castro was.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

macintosh doctor said:


> The embargo didn’t turn Cuba into a hellhole whose main tourism industry is inviting progressive Canadian pedophiles to rape its children. Castro did that with help from the dead guy on the red t-shirts. 'One of the greatest benefits of the revolution is that even our prostitutes are college graduates,' Castro told Oliver Stone


I am sure that Epstien's yacht spent many days anchored in Cuban harbours procuring for his neo-con clientele. 

Seriously you need to find more intelligent news sources than Faux News and All Lies O'Reilly.


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

let us ask those imprisoned how they feel? let us ask those in exile, who's property was taken and lives destroyed how they feel?


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

macintosh doctor said:


> Cuba is your friend until they have used you up to achieve what they wanted then will dispose of you in whatever manor they see fit..


Cuba never gave me a house, and certainly not one of any stature.


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## heavyall (Nov 2, 2012)

People who haven't been to Cuba just have no frame of reference for what it's like there. Virtually everything that you hear out of Miami is simply not true.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sledding with Fidel: Gander woman recalls tobogganing adventure with late Cuban leader - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News

Interesting.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

When Joey met Fidel: Late Cuban leader had surprising N.L. connection - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News

Even more interesting.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Trudeau an arse again! 

Justin Trudeau's statement on Fidel Castro's death a revisionist embarrassment | News | Edmonton Sun


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Nice anecdotes, Dr.G.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

CubaMark said:


> Nice anecdotes, Dr.G.


When I came to NL in 1977, people talked of some of these events. Paz, mi amigo.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

SINC said:


> Trudeau an arse again!
> 
> Justin Trudeau's statement on Fidel Castro's death a revisionist embarrassment | News | Edmonton Sun


Trudeau may well be, but not on the basis of Bonokoski's rant. The only thing he got right in that little hit piece were names of prominent individuals. Facts? Not so much.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Dr.G. said:


> When Joey met Fidel: Late Cuban leader had surprising N.L. connection - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News
> 
> Even more interesting.


For those interested, here's the documentary mentioned in that article, when Smallwood went to Cuba:

*Waiting For Fidel*
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT_TmGgNB_o[/ame]


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

CubaMark said:


> For those interested, here's the documentary mentioned in that article, when Smallwood went to Cuba:
> 
> *Waiting For Fidel*
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT_TmGgNB_o


Yes, I recall seeing it on the CBC TV.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

CubaMark said:


> Trudeau may well be, but not on the basis of Bonokoski's rant. The only thing he got right in that little hit piece were names of prominent individuals. Facts? Not so much.


Trudeau attacked worldwide for Castro statement


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

*Anyone remember this from Stephen Harper* on the death of King Abdullah?

Prime Minister Stephen Harper today issued the following statement on the death of King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz of Saudi Arabia:

“On behalf of all Canadians, Laureen and I offer our sincere condolences to the family of King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz and the people of Saudi Arabia.

*“King Abdullah was recognized as a strong proponent of peace in the Middle East. He also undertook a range of important economic, social, education, health, and infrastructure initiatives in his country.

“I had the pleasure of meeting King Abdullah in Toronto when Canada hosted the G-20 and found him to be passionate about his country, development and the global economy.

“We join the people of Saudi Arabia in mourning his passing.”*

Anyone familiar with all of King Abdullah's greatest hits? 

Castro just died. It's just a diplomatic thing to remember the positive accomplishments about a leader of a country when they die. It's called diplomacy, something Canada has had with Cuba for a long time, and has improved with diplomacy, not isolation or saying negative things about someone on their death.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

SINC said:


> Trudeau attacked worldwide for Castro statement


Why does the geographic location of a bunch of wingnuts give them validity? Haters gonna hate, wherever they are....


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)




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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

CubaMark said:


>


12 presidents if you count Trump. Only the Queen of England has a longer record.


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## heavyall (Nov 2, 2012)

SINC said:


> Trudeau attacked worldwide for Castro statement


A handful of people trying to score political points.

I'm no fan of Trudeau -- actually I think he's an idiot -- but the statement he made regarding Castro's passing was accurate and appropriate. One of the few decent things he's done as PM.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Hey, it became legal to own computers and DVD players in 2008, heavyall. No lack of progress there!


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

CubaMark, I'm curious whether you've been keeping tabs on Cuba's subsidized oil arrangement with Venezuela in exchange for health care--is that still viable given Venezuela's near-collapse?


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Macfury said:


> CubaMark, I'm curious whether you've been keeping tabs on Cuba's subsidized oil arrangement with Venezuela in exchange for health care--is that still viable given Venezuela's near-collapse?


No - I'll admit to being a little bit behind on that arrangement. Lately I'm working on the development of Co-operatives in the new Cuban economy (last spring we had a workshop in Halifax on the topic: CubaCooperatives.com).

I'll have to take some time to look into the oil deal. If the US-backed opposition in Venezuela manages to succeed in orchestrating (yet another) coup, it would likely lead, unfortunately, to an end to the Barrio Adentro (Doctors in the Neighbourhood) programme that brought medical care to the poorest of Venezuelans for the first time in their lives....


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Macfury said:


> Hey, it became legal to own computers and DVD players in 2008, heavyall. No lack of progress there!


Do you know why the ownership of computers and DVD players, among other things, took so long to become legal/available? It's not the "keeping Cubans ignorant" claim of critics. It had everything to do with the electrical grid. 

So many Cubans were receiving gifts from friends and family abroad of new electrical equipment that the grid just couldn't take it, exacerbating blackouts and stresses on an aged infrastructure.

When people claim the US embargo had no real effects on Cuba ("they just couldn't trade with us - they could still trade with everyone else!"), they are showing their ignorance of how far-reaching that embargo stretched. Companies that dared to trade with Cuba were punished under U.S. law and were blocked from trading with the USA. Ships that landed in Cuba to offload cargo were banned for 6 months of landing at a US port, making shipping to Cuba an exorbitantly expensive proposition. It wasn't just a "can't trade with us" situation, it was ridiculously punitive beyond all reason. Cuba had to jump through a stupid amount of hoops to purchase simple raw materials and products... often via dedicated shipping that ran directly from Cuba to China, Vietnam, etc.

So the electrical grid (like the telephony network) was similarly affected. Power production has moved from high-sulfur diesel to other sources (more LNG and an impressive amount of solar and even hydro). But it's all slow going...


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I didn't think it was about keeping them ignorant. If I wanted to destroy people's minds, I would flood them with Facebook, and DVDs.



CubaMark said:


> Do you know why the ownership of computers and DVD players, among other things, took so long to become legal/available? It's not the "keeping Cubans ignorant" claim of critics. It had everything to do with the electrical grid.
> 
> So many Cubans were receiving gifts from friends and family abroad of new electrical equipment that the grid just couldn't take it, exacerbating blackouts and stresses on an aged infrastructure.
> 
> ...


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

CubaMark said:


> Do you know why the ownership of computers and DVD players, among other things, took so long to become legal/available? It's not the "keeping Cubans ignorant" claim of critics. It had everything to do with the electrical grid.
> 
> So many Cubans were receiving gifts from friends and family abroad of new electrical equipment that the grid just couldn't take it, exacerbating blackouts and stresses on an aged infrastructure.


but yet they kept building resorts after resorts with rooms with a/c, tvs - creature comforts lol 
while the cubans live in the dark..

CubaMark - how long have your been brainwashed for?


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## heavyall (Nov 2, 2012)

Macfury said:


> I didn't think it was about keeping them ignorant.


A lot of people do think that's what was going on, and a lot of people in Miami tell them that is the case. 

People don't even believe it when you tell them how easy it is to get in and out of Cuba. A substantially smoother process than Canada or the US. They're not searching you for contraband, they aren't even asking you if you have any (fill in the blank) with you. Friends, family, tourists, etc can and are bringing Cubans all manner of things, many of which cause serious problems with their limited infrastructure. 

Related to the electrical grid, the other thing that gets traction over here as "keeping the Cubans ignorant" is their limited internet infrastructure. This one is two fold. The internet itself is expensive for them to deploy and maintain, and the more internet that is available, the even greater strain on the electrical grid by people accessing it.

This is also why while the tourist industry does help them out a lot, it's not as beneficial as it should be, because a lot of the improvements get channeled to the Jardines Del Rey area. In order to keep that tourist money coming, a substantial investment in the tourist infrastructure is required. Great roads, water systems, wifi, and electrical grids on a Cayo that no Cubans live on don't help the employees who live on the main island. And they most certainly see the discrepancy. What they don't see, is that the billions of dollars that tourism brings in is what pays for their healthcare and education.


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## heavyall (Nov 2, 2012)

It's counter-intuitive to most people, but Cuba to me is a shining example of conservative fiscal policy. They make hard choices in order to afford to do what needs to be done. Considering how heavily stacked the deck is against them, it's amazing how much they've been able to do.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

macintosh doctor said:


> but yet they kept building resorts after resorts with rooms with a/c, tvs - creature comforts lol
> while the cubans live in the dark..


Ah, I see. This poor, blockaded, developing country should not bother to invest in the one major economic sector in which it has enormous growth potential... tourism.

Cubans should just sit around in the dark, waiting for... what? For America to deliver some "Freedom"?

Seriously, there are legitimate criticisms one can levy at how the Cuban government has developed its economy and society, but all you seem to be able to come up with are the softballs that anyone with a mojito and guidebook to Cuba could answer. 



macintosh doctor said:


> CubaMark - how long have your been brainwashed for?


Well, I stopped allowing my folks to drag me to church when I was around 13... things became a helluva lot clearer after that....


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## heavyall (Nov 2, 2012)

macintosh doctor said:


> but yet they kept building resorts after resorts with rooms with a/c, tvs - creature comforts lol
> while the cubans live in the dark..


See the last paragraph in my post right after yours. Those resorts are a critical income source, investing in them is not an option.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

heavyall said:


> This is also why while the tourist industry does help them out a lot, it's not as beneficial as it should be, because a lot of the improvements get channeled to the Jardines Del Rey area. In order to keep that tourist money coming, a substantial investment in the tourist infrastructure is required. Great roads, water systems, wifi, and electrical grids on a Cayo that no Cubans live on don't help the employees who live on the main island. And they most certainly see the discrepancy. What they don't see, is that the billions of dollars that tourism brings in is what pays for their healthcare and education.


Exactly.

A further note on Cuba's tourism sector development: unlike pretty much any other country of which I am aware, Cuba's development of hotels and resorts was done pretty much exclusively under a joint-venture contract, with the Cuban government retaining 51% ownership, and at the end of the 20-year contract with the foreign investor (Spain's Melia hotel chain was an early and significant partner), the infrastructure resorts to Cuban ownership, with management contracts an option for continued partnership with the original investor. 

So - once the foreign investor has built the property and recouped its investment plus a reasonable profit, the facilities revert to full Cuban ownership after which all profits accrue to Cuba, minus any potential ongoing service deals (e.g., hotel management). The enormously successful (even at a small percentage of its total potential) initiative then continues to provide foreign exchange earnings for the Cuban government to fund, as heavyall notes, the system of social welfare, of infrastructure, of education, etc.

Given all of that, *macintosh doctor*, do you still think Cuba's development of tourism facilities is the wrong move? Enlighten us, please, with your long history of economic development planning. Wisdom should be shared!


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

heavyall said:


> See the last paragraph in my post right after yours. Those resorts are a critical income source, investing in them is not an option.


exactly - keeping his people in the dark by choice ..


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## heavyall (Nov 2, 2012)

macintosh doctor said:


> exactly - keeping his people in the dark by choice ..


No, building a means of upgrading their infrastructure to bring the lights to all.

Very few are "in the dark" anyway. Even remote rural areas have power. Far, FAR more than they had under Batista, and far more than many other south/central american countries.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

May he rot in hell forever...

'Little Havana' Celebrates Castro's Death



> _ On Calle Ocho, the main thoroughfare of Little Havana, people waved Cuban flags in the air, banged on pots with spoons, and fireworks exploded in the air. The joy of these revelers illustrated the disdain they had for the late communist leader.
> 
> 'Cuba si! Castro no!' some chanted, while others screamed 'Cuba libre!'
> 
> ...


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

FeXL said:


> May he rot in hell forever...


Castro's cheerleader is waiting for him - wherever that may be


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

I seems like their long term plan finally worked…

"_*Covert CIA plot to wait until Fidel Castro dies of old age successful*_"

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2016/11/covert-cia-plot-wait-fidel-castro-dies-old-age-successful/


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

pm-r said:


> I seems like their long term plan finally worked…
> 
> "_*Covert CIA plot to wait until Fidel Castro dies of old age successful*_"
> 
> https://www.thebeaverton.com/2016/11/covert-cia-plot-wait-fidel-castro-dies-old-age-successful/


I always thought that the exploding cigar was their best "trick" ever.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Dr.G. said:


> I always thought that the exploding cigar was their best "trick" ever.



Among all the admitted 600 attempts…

Fidel Castro survived half a century of CIA assassination attempts before his death at 90 | Daily Mail Online

Sort of reminds one of the Tom & Jerry or the Willie Coyote & the Road Runner cartoons.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

pm-r said:


> Among all the admitted 600 attempts…
> 
> Fidel Castro survived half a century of CIA assassination attempts before his death at 90 | Daily Mail Online
> 
> Sort of reminds one of the Tom & Jerry or the Willie Coyote & the Road Runner cartoons.


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd_41tM6H2Y[/ame]


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Fidel en route to Santiago*

Cuba has not slept. Cuba has not slept for several days. This is a nation that is silent, that pays tribute, that honors.

For thousands, daybreak came earlier today. Cuba has had bright dawns for almost six decades.

In the Plaza de la Revolución José Martí there are already many people waiting, they have come to accompany their leader once again: Fidel, Alejandro, the man who became a people.

The ceremonial battalion awaits. They are young, very young, and they march impeccably.

At six o’clock the artillery salutes resound, as if to remind us that there is silence, because they sound louder, they move.

It’s also time to raise the flag. At half-mast....​

































The carriage that will carry the ashes is dressed with white flowers. The soldiers, as if caressing it, place the urn. The friendly escort is already in position. The command is to mount. And they start moving.

Hundreds of kilometers await ahead, recalling in reverse the Caravan of Liberty that then celebrated the victory. And triumphantly he returns to Santiago, to be close to Martí.

The journey begins first toward the square, then a city, another, the whole of Cuba... Then begins the infinite cry of “Viva!” and “Glory!” to Fidel, to Alejandro, the man who became a people.​

















(Granma.cu)


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

> Cuba has not slept. Cuba has not slept for several days. This is a nation that is silent, that pays tribute, that honors.



Why do so many in the photos above wear what seems to be some sort of blue uniform?? Lighter blue tops and dark blue bottoms???

I couldn't find any info or answer when googling…


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

School uniform for pre-university students.



pm-r said:


> Why do so many in the photos above wear what seems to be some sort of blue uniform?? Lighter blue tops and dark blue bottoms???
> 
> I couldn't find any info or answer when googling…


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Macfury said:


> School uniform for pre-university students.



Thanks.

I assume that's a fact and not something you made up.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Cuban student uniform colour guide:

light blue top / dark blue skirt or pants: pre-university & university
white top / mustard skirt / pants: secundaria (junior high equivalent)
white top / red skirt / pants: primary
white top / brown skirt / pants: trade school and atheletics

(source: Quia)


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

irony of having the final resting place of the beast - just steps from the US army base..


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

macintosh doctor said:


> irony of having the final resting place of the beast - just steps from the US army base..


That would be the illegally-occupied military base, upon which the U.S. illegally held and tortured innocent victims in its global war on terror.

Not much irony, considering that Santiago de Cuba is still sovereign Cuban territory and the eastern provinces typically are the areas where support for the Revolution historically has been the most dedicated.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I wouldn't call that illegally occupied, simply because the Cuban government wont cash the rent cheques.



CubaMark said:


> That would be the illegally-occupied military base, upon which the U.S. illegally held and tortured innocent victims in its global war on terror.
> 
> Not much irony, considering that Santiago de Cuba is still sovereign Cuban territory and the eastern provinces typically are the areas where support for the Revolution historically has been the most dedicated.


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

CubaMark said:


> That would be the illegally-occupied military base, upon which the U.S. illegally held and tortured innocent victims in its global war on terror.
> 
> Not much irony, considering that Santiago de Cuba is still sovereign Cuban territory and the eastern provinces typically are the areas where support for the Revolution historically has been the most dedicated.


you lost me at "US signed a lease "
In 1903, the United States and Cuba signed a lease granting the United States permission to use the land as a coaling and naval station. The lease satisfied the Platt Amendment; this amendment stated a naval base at "certain specific points agreed upon by the President of the United States" was needed to "enable the United States to maintain independence of Cuba." The United States and Cuba signed a treaty in 1934, granting the United States a perpetual lease.[5] Private enterprise is not allowed under the treaty.

Please tell me how it is illegal ?
:lmao:


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

macintosh doctor said:


> you lost me at "US signed a lease "
> ....
> Please tell me how it is illegal ?
> :lmao:


You could, you know, open a book sometime.... 

One of the better, impeccably-sourced and pragmatic accounts of the major developments of Cuba's history prior to and throughout the Revolution is Jane Franklin's "Cuba and the United States: A Chronological History" (order here). _(I received the 2016 updated version just a couple of months ago)_

*Excerpts:*

*April 25, 1898*: The U.S. Congress formally declares war [against Spain], saying that the state of war between the United States and Spain began April 21. In the United States, this is known as the Spanish-American War. In Cuba, it is known as the U.S. intervention in Cuba's War of Independence. 

*August 12, 1898*: Spain and the United States sign a bilateral armistice. Cuba is not represented at the negotiations. 

*1901* To codify control of Cuba, the U.S. Congress on March 2 adds the Platt Amendment to an Army Appropriations bill. The amendment provides that Cuba has only a limited right to conduct its own foreign policy and debt policy; the United States may intervene militarily at any time....Since the U.S. Government makes it clear that its military occupation will not end until this amendment becomes part of Cuban law, Cuba incorporates the Platt Amendment into its 1901 Constitution.​
Anyone interested in some truly insightful analysis of the Revolution and U.S.-Cuba relations should check out the many other essays available on her website.

One perspective of the constitutional and political legalities of the post-war "independence" "granted" to Cuba can be found in Joseph C. Sweeney's "Guantanamo and U.S. Law" (_Fordham International Law Journal_, V.30, No.3, 2006. Pp. 681–3):

_In the Constitution of February 21, 1901, the delegates adopted a U.S.- type of government for their non-federal or unitary nation with a two-house Congress and a popularly elected president.

Before the Constitution became effective, the United States forced a virtual recognition of a U.S. protectorate over Cuba when Wood told the delegates that the U.S. army would remain until a permanent relation with the U.S. was fixed. Senator Orville H. Platt (R. Conn.) had attached an amendment to the crucial appropriation for the U.S. Army in May 1901 with the following stipulations: (1) Cuba may not become party to a treaty impairing its sovereignty in favor of another State; (2) Cuba may not commit itself to an "excessive foreign debt" beyond its capacity to repay based on ordinary revenue receipts; (3) the United States will maintain Cuban independence and may intervene at any time to preserve life and property, and (4) Cuba will sell or lease territories for coaling stations for the U.S. Navy. Secretary of War, Elihu Root was undoubtedly involved in drafting Platt's Amendment, which was unopposed by the McKinley Administration.

The February Cuban Constitution was amended on June 12, 1901 to incorporate the Platt Amendment into the Constitution. To guarantee the undisturbed future of the Platt Amendment, it was also incorporated into the Treaty of May 22, 1903 between the United States and Cuba.'_​


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Since the US could have remained in Cuba or taken it over, what's wrong with the agreement?


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

CubaMark said:


> *Excerpts:*
> 
> *April 25, 1898*: The U.S. Congress formally declares war [against Spain], saying that the state of war between the United States and Spain began April 21. In the United States, this is known as the Spanish-American War. In Cuba, it is known as the U.S. intervention in Cuba's War of Independence.
> 
> ...


_

at any time Cuba could of protested or declared war against spain or us - but decided not to - in its absences - the spoils went to the victors lol_​


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

I forgot that I was talking to people who would be just pleased as punch if the USA decided to take on another northern state.

:yikes:


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

This stuff is all grandfathered. I don't suggest giving Texas to Mexico, or ceding Nova Scotia to the Mi'kmaq either.The US could have annexed Cuba, but gave them a better deal.



CubaMark said:


> I forgot that I was talking to people who would be just pleased as punch if the USA decided to take on another northern state.


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

CubaMark said:


> I forgot that I was talking to people who would be just pleased as punch if the USA decided to take on another northern state.
> 
> :yikes:


now that you mentioned it - yes i would - any thing to rid ourselves of the decease that Wynne and Trudeau are lol


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## heavyall (Nov 2, 2012)

Macfury said:


> I wouldn't call that illegally occupied, simply because the Cuban government wont cash the rent cheques.


Absolutely illegal. The US signed the lease to themselves. They were illegally occupying a sovereign nation, and put their own puppet dictator in charge.


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

heavyall said:


> Absolutely illegal. The US signed the lease to themselves. They were illegally occupying a sovereign nation, and put their own puppet dictator in charge.


at any time Castro could of declared war - or taken the objection to the UN - but didn't


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

macintosh doctor said:


> at any time Castro could of declared war - or taken the objection to the UN - but didn't


You live in an interesting realm, macintosh doctor... :yikes:

There are times when I think about trying to understand what you're saying, but then I figure, I've never bothered to attempt communication with a brick wall, so why is this situation any different?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

heavyall said:


> Absolutely illegal. The US signed the lease to themselves. They were illegally occupying a sovereign nation, and put their own puppet dictator in charge.


There was no such thing as "illegal" occupation at the time.


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## heavyall (Nov 2, 2012)

macintosh doctor said:


> at any time Castro could of declared war - or taken the objection to the UN - but didn't


You seem to be pretty unaware about just about anything regarding Cuba.


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## heavyall (Nov 2, 2012)

Macfury said:


> There was no such thing as "illegal" occupation at the time.


Of course there was. The Americans weren't invited. They invaded. Illegal under any country's constitution, even before there was such a thing as international law.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

heavyall said:


> Of course there was. The Americans weren't invited. They invaded. Illegal under any country's constitution, even before there was such a thing as international law.


They could have grabbed the country outright after kicking Spain's ass in the Spanish American War.


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## heavyall (Nov 2, 2012)

Macfury said:


> They could have grabbed the country outright after kicking Spain's ass in the Spanish American War.


They tried to do it covertly instead. The US was less blatant about their imperialism back then.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Macfury said:


> They could have grabbed the country outright after kicking Spain's ass in the Spanish American War.


That's an interesting perspective.

Another perspective is that Cuba had worn down the Spaniards and was on the verge of securing its own victory when the Yanquis stepped in and took all the credit.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

CubaMark said:


> That's an interesting perspective.
> 
> Another perspective is that Cuba had worn down the Spaniards and was on the verge of securing its own victory when the Yanquis stepped in and took all the credit.


Either way, they could have taken Cuba as part of the peace settlement--hell, they got everything else!


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Ouch!

Fidel Castro's ashes buried in private cemetery ceremony | Fox News



> *The Russian-made jeep ferrying Castro's ashes broke down and needed to be pushed on Saturday en route to the late leader's final resting place.*
> 
> The breakdown of the jeep in the midst of adoring crowds chanting "Long live Fidel!" was symbolic of the dual nature of Castro's Cuba. While his legacy inspires fierce adulation by many of the nation's citizens, others continue to grumble about Cuba's autocratic government, inefficient bureaucracy and stagnant economy.


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

Macfury said:


> Ouch!
> 
> Fidel Castro's ashes buried in private cemetery ceremony | Fox News


irony !!! lol - pretty much Fidels cuba lol


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