# First Impressions: Early 2009 Mac mini



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

I bought the first 1.42 GHz G4 Mac mini weeks after it was first introduced and have been using it ever since - until now. After work tonight, I grabbed a base line $729 model on my way home, got my data moved over via Migration Assistant, and having been using it for a little while now. Coming from a G4... wow.  Silky smooth and quick. I just have the 1GB of RAM in there, but am looking to max it out to 4GB in the next couple weeks. I contemplated going with the 2.26 upgrade, but am happy now I saved that money - the 2.0 seems a plenty for what I do. Very happy. Quiet little machine, and connected to my existing 20" Samsung via DVI, it's exceptional value.

The naysayers can say all they want about the mini being "overpriced." I'm very happy with my purchase and won't for a second regret it. With an existing monitor, keyboard, and mouse, the mini provides superb value and is many hundreds short of an iMac in price.

Fired up Call of Duty 4..  On default settings, it's silky smooth with just 1GB RAM boosting 128 MB of VRAM. I'm looking forward to upping the RAM to 4GB (and effectively doubling the VRAM to 256 MB).

Unsurprisingly, _everything_ is a lot quicker, especially coming from a pre-Intel Mac.


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

Congrats on the purchase, Lars. I love the Mini I have hooked up to my LCD Screen... it's an old CoreSolo upgraded to a CoreDuo 1.66 and it's still going strong. Long live the mini


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

I just wish you could get them with larger drives.


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## gwillikers (Jun 19, 2003)

csonni said:


> I just wish you could get them with larger drives.


That would be my only criticism too. The low end mini should have a 320 GB drive and 2 GB RAM. And the top of the line mini should double that memory and hard drive size.

IMHO.


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

Lars said:


> I just have the 1GB of RAM in there, but am looking to max it out to 4GB in the next couple weeks. I contemplated going with the 2.26 upgrade, but am happy now I saved that money - the 2.0 seems a plenty for what I do. Very happy.


Lars, I was contemplating doing this too but in the old G4 changing either RAM or the HD was really hard work and I certainly wouldn't attempt it during the warranty period. Are the innards of the new Mini any different?


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

Moscool said:


> Lars, I was contemplating doing this too but in the old G4 changing either RAM or the HD was really hard work and I certainly wouldn't attempt it during the warranty period. Are the innards of the new Mini any different?


The Intel Mac mini's are more difficult and more thorough to change the RAM and hard drive in, in comparison to the G4 Mac mini. To change/upgrade the RAM, and entire inner frame with the hard drive, optical drive, and fan must come straight out to access the RAM slots on the logic board.


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

Thanks Lars. I think I'll buy pre-configured...


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## ertman (Jan 15, 2008)

Lars said:


> I bought the first 1.42 GHz G4 Mac mini weeks after it was first introduced and have been using it every since - until now. After work tonight, I grabbed a base line $729 model on my way home, got my data moved over via Migration Assistant, and having been using it for a little while now. Coming from a G4... wow.  Silky smooth and quick. I just have the 1GB of RAM in there, but am looking to max it out to 4GB in the next couple weeks. I contemplated going with the 2.26 upgrade, but am happy now I saved that money - the 2.0 seems a plenty for what I do. Very happy. Quiet little machine, and connected to my existing 20" Samsung via DVI, it's exceptional value.
> 
> The naysayers can say all they want about the mini being "overpriced." I'm very happy with my purchase and won't for a second regret it. With an existing monitor, keyboard, and mouse, the mini provides superb value and is many hundreds short of an iMac in price.
> 
> ...


Very informative, thanks!

I plan on getting a mini for a HTPC usage, but not for a couple of months, budget reasons, not expecting anything.

I would be one of the nay sayers, but only for the price issue. Some people have complained that it is under powered etc, buit that doesn't really bother me. The amount of ram, processor speed, hard drive, and video for me are acceptable, but I am dissapointed with the price, and that is all, if it were the same price as the last model, no problems then. 

But definately thanks for the hands on review.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Lars said:


> The Intel Mac mini's are more difficult and more thorough to change the RAM and hard drive in, in comparison to the G4 Mac mini. To change/upgrade the RAM, and entire inner frame with the hard drive, optical drive, and fan must come straight out to access the RAM slots on the logic board.


Normally I would open a computer myself for a RAM install, but given the intracies of the Mac mini, I asked the local Apple tech (university computer store) how much he would charge to change the RAM in our Intel Mac mini and was quoted $30 (I'll provide the RAM). That now seems reasonable considering all this fuss, although I was tempted to try the disassembled ethernet cable pull-the-pins method someone linked to a week or two ago.


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## milhaus (Jun 1, 2004)

HowEver said:


> Normally I would open a computer myself for a RAM install, but given the intracies of the Mac mini, I asked the local Apple tech (university computer store) how much he would charge to change the RAM in our Intel Mac mini and was quoted $30 (I'll provide the RAM). That now seems reasonable considering all this fuss, although I was tempted to try the disassembled ethernet cable pull-the-pins method someone linked to a week or two ago.


Just FYI: a user upgrading RAM and hard drive on his/her Mac Mini voids warranty, according to Apple. This applies to the Intel Minis only, and I would imagine applies to the new revisions as well.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

milhaus said:


> Just FYI: a user upgrading RAM and hard drive on his/her Mac Mini voids warranty, according to Apple. This applies to the Intel Minis only, and I would imagine applies to the new revisions as well.


Thanks, there will be readers here who did not know that.

This mini is somewhat out of warranty.

(It seems likely that a Lars-based RAM upgrade would not void an Apple warranty.)


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## joltguy (Apr 15, 2005)

Congrats on the new mini, Lars! Sweet little machine.


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## mc3251 (Sep 28, 2007)

I had one, which i sold to fund my refurb MBP.
I loved my mini. Surprisingly fast, and when I sold it I wished I had a truckfull given all of the people who emailed me wanting to buy it.
They aren't any more overpriced than any other Macs.


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

gwillikers said:


> That would be my only criticism too. The low end mini should have a 320 GB drive and 2 GB RAM. And the top of the line mini should double that memory and hard drive size.


While the 4GB RAM would be nice on the nearly $1K Mini - there is no bigger 2.5" HDD then a 500GB model - which Apple doesn't even offer in it's $3K MBPs. There's no such thing as a 640GB 2.5" HDD - yet.

A 250GB on the low end, and a 320GB on the high end would be nice, but even the MacBooks still start at 160GB.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

Moscool said:


> Thanks Lars. I think I'll buy pre-configured...


It's certainly less of a hassle. That and buying a pre-configured mini is entirely covered by Apple's warranty which means you won't need to deal with it if either the RAM or hard drive fails. (Third-party RAM and other upgrades, obviously, are not covered by Apple's warranty and therefore would be the user's problem, labor, and possible expense if they failed.)

For those interested in upgrading the mini themselves later (or having an AASP do it), some good deals can be found here:

$163 - 500GB 2.5" *7200* HD: Link.

$112 - 320GB 2.5" *7200* HD: Link.

$118 - 4GB Kingston Upgrade: Link.


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## maximusbibicus (Feb 25, 2002)

I upgraded the MInis in my sig, and a G4 in the past. I am not a techie...but it wasn't hard. I downloaded a video of how to do it and went step by step with the guy in the vid, took my time and no problem. On the second one where i rushed, i managed to partially screw through the power button cable, but only partially. Little bit of electrical tape and we are good.


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## satchmo (May 26, 2005)

G4 > Intel Duo Core 2 = big difference

Intel Duo Core 2 w/GMA 950 > Intel Duo Core 2 w/Nvida = meh 

A needed upgrade, but it could have been so much more. 
Not just speed, but accessibility, and price.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Just got ours - putting RAM in now - will put it through its paces.

Cool box with dual monitor out, can't wait to try that.

5 USB ports.

FW800

SATA for the internal optical.....hmmmm a RAID ???!!!! 

Same form factor as the previous gen. The FAST 1066 RAM will definitely help all around.

With the FW 800 port we can stack a OWC V3 case with a fast 500 as boot drive, tons of ports and still be under $1k..  with dual monitors out and a 120 gig TimeMachine drive. :clap:

Wow...........


••

Teehee this is going to be fun.

I am going to switch over for the evening from my 8 core 16 gigs Velociraptor aka room heater

to the 

new MacMini 4 gigs internal 120 and run the two monitors 24" NEC2690uxi and 2090uxi 
and do my usual work for the evening just to get feel for it the book ends of the Mac range for non production use. 

THen I'll try it with a V3 matching case with a fast 500 gig in booting the MacMini - see how much improvement.

I'm out of Velociraptors but it occurred to me we could put 10K VR in the stack.....zoom zoom .


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Hey Doc you might find this interesting: Installing Mac Mini A1283 Terabyte Drive. While they use the second drive as a Time Machine drive, is there any reason why it couldn't be striped to create a software array?


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## gwillikers (Jun 19, 2003)

fyrefly said:


> While the 4GB RAM would be nice on the nearly $1K Mini - there is no bigger 2.5" HDD then a 500GB model - which Apple doesn't even offer in it's $3K MBPs. There's no such thing as a 640GB 2.5" HDD - yet.
> 
> A 250GB on the low end, and a 320GB on the high end would be nice, but even the MacBooks still start at 160GB.



Can you tell I've never even seen a mini? I assumed they had a 3.5" in them.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

csonni said:


> I just wish you could get them with larger drives.


I don't see this as a valid criticism. At present, the best you can do is go to 500GB (from 320) because it's a laptop-sized drive in there.

In point of fact, a FW800 external drive would give you both huge capacity AND incredible speed, so in this case I think the external port offers a better option anyway. Add to this the practically unlimited daisy-chaining of USB2 and FW800 and "capacity" simply ceases to be an issue in any relevant way. You could attach PETABYTES of drives to this thing.

Congrats, Lars!


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

I agree chas_m. With Firewire 800 the internal drive size is not really an issue. Personally for data security, better performance and ease of recovery in the event of catastrophic drive failure, I prefer to keep my data and system drives separate anyway. So a larger internal drive just means more wasted space (i.e. a 500GB system drive is overkill) for someone who utilizes the strategy that I do.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

We see the internal 120 as an ideal TimeMachine space with the V3 as a very flexible boot drive.
It gives all the ports anyone could want including FW 400 and eSATA while harnessing the Mini to a big boot space.

Cloning almost done.

The Mini can also support 256SSD as well....


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Oh this is a sweet little box - had a hiccup with data transfer as the internal was jsut a tad too small so I figured we'd log in on a fresh install.

A 2690 24" and 1600x1200 21" and it's nice a quick - well done Apple - been waiting for a decade for this. :clap:

You will NOT be disappointed.


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## Intense (Mar 7, 2009)

You can upgrade the vram ?
that's pretty cool !


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

Intense said:


> You can upgrade the vram ?
> that's pretty cool !


No. The VRAM available is 128 MB with 1GB of RAM or 256 MB with 2GB or more of RAM.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

So far satisfied and impressed now I'm on my full system with all the normal toys. ( and overhead as a result )

There is of course more noticeable lack of smoothness when say doing a backup and working at the same time but it multitasks surprisingly well given what I have going on.

I'm going to defrag the boot drive in a few minutes - have not done it in a while and see how that helps in the "smooth category".

••

One odd thing, I have a photo utility I use that is PowerPC and it is noticeably laggy...not sure what that is about.

Just a note that popped up - in doing the defrag on the internal the drive got hot and the application halted the procedure so those looking to stream may want to consider the outboard solution.

Lot going on a small box - some heat issues are almost inevitable. Might have to take a different approach and defrag the external then clone again.

Good work out for the little gem - I think this may have been my issue as the heat sink on the external was parked on the MacMini  Now cured

Turned on Temp Monitor


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

MacDoc, how much RAM in your Mac mini?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Lars, I have waiting for the new MacMini computers for over a year now. I basically want it for iPhoto and iMovie creations. I have a great 24 inch Samsung monitor. I was thinking of getting the wireless keyboard and mouse just to keep with the small footprint of the MM. I was considering the 2.6 version and 4 Gigs of RAM. However, a few people with older MMs have told me that this newer version would not be suitable for what I want to do with it in the near future (i.e., make iMovies and burn them into DVDs). Since you have one of these newer versions, do you see problems with what I am hoping to do with this potential MM? As well, was the cable included sufficient for the attachment to your Samsung? 

Merci, mon ami.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

Dr.G. said:


> Lars, I have waiting for the new MacMini computers for over a year now. I basically want it for iPhoto and iMovie creations. I have a great 24 inch Samsung monitor. I was thinking of getting the wireless keyboard and mouse just to keep with the small footprint of the MM. I was considering the 2.6 version and 4 Gigs of RAM. However, a few people with older MMs have told me that this newer version would not be suitable for what I want to do with it in the near future (i.e., make iMovies and burn them into DVDs). Since you have one of these newer versions, do you see problems with what I am hoping to do with this potential MM? As well, was the cable included sufficient for the attachment to your Samsung?
> 
> Merci, mon ami.


The Mac mini is perfectly suitable for iMovie editing and iDVD creation and burning, especially with the 2.26 upgrade and 4GB of RAM - shouldn't be a problem. The Mac mini includes a mini-DVI-to-DVI adapter, meaning no additional cables are required to hook it up to your 24" Samsung. (Or my 20" Samsung via DVI.)

If you were doing heavy editing with FCP, then I may not agree that the Mac mini could do the job so well.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Thanks for the info, Lars. No, all I want is iLife for iPhoto and iMovie. I did some of these creations on my G4 iBook, but this was the iBook just before there was a DVD burner placed inside. So, I could create things, but could only show people these creations on my TV or on the 13 inch screen.

Would you recommend iDVD or Titanium Toast 10 by Roxio?


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Dr.G. said:


> Thanks for the info, Lars. No, all I want is iLife for iPhoto and iMovie. I did some of these creations on my G4 iBook, but this was the iBook just before there was a DVD burner placed inside. So, I could create things, but could only show people these creations on my TV or on the 13 inch screen.
> 
> Would you recommend iDVD or Titanium Toast 10 by Roxio?


Your iBook had a 12" or 14" screen. Unless you mean it was 14" with 13"+ useable space.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

My iBook has a 14 inch screen, but the new MacBooks have a 13 inch screen. So, you are correct, HowEver.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

Dr.G., use iDVD. You can create nice looking menus for your movie/video with it, and burning your final project to a playable DVD via iDVD is flawlessly easy. Forget wasting money on Toast Titanium.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Thanks for this info, Lars.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

Looks like one could configure a Mini as a nice HD media centre except for a Blu-ray drive.
Any solution to play Blu-Ray disks?


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## Ravindra Mohabeer (Oct 14, 2003)

I'm a bit confused. I thought ALL of the ram in the mini was 'user accessible'. I didn't quote the post in this thread but I'm getting the impression that this might not be the case.

If I don't want to pony up for Apple's 4gigs of ram, will I have to pay to get it upgraded by a certified pro?


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

krs - external Blue-Ray drive.

Ravindra Mohabeer - no Mac mini, ever, has had user accessible RAM slot(s).

*If I don't want to pony up for Apple's 4gigs of ram, will I have to pay to get it upgraded by a certified pro?*

Depends. If you do it yourself and manage not to break anything and put it back together properly, then no. If you think you might break something or not put it back together properly, then I'd suggest having an Apple-certified technician do the job.

Third-party RAM is not covered by your Mac mini's warranty (limited or extended).


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

You need a bit more than just an external Blu-Ray drive since OS X doesn't support BluRay playback and isn't there also an HDCP issue?

Or do you mean an external Blu-Ray player?

But then you don't have a nice integrated system.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Well my room is cooler.....: 

MacMini subbing for 8core on day to day doing just fine - Apple has a winnnah :clap:


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## Elric (Jul 30, 2005)

krs said:


> You need a bit more than just an external Blu-Ray drive since OS X doesn't support BluRay playback and isn't there also an HDCP issue?
> 
> Or do you mean an external Blu-Ray player?
> 
> But then you don't have a nice integrated system.


I think they want you to use your computer to do computer things (and as far as I know, there are no programs SOOOOO large, that a Blu Ray disc is needed, nor are Blu Ray Burners or Discs cheap enough for the average user to care.)

If you want HD Video and TV Shows, get their other product, Apple TV. It's cheaper than a (good) Blu Ray Player, and the content is cheaper than (good) Blu Ray movies.

I don't think they have any desire at all to adopt this "too little too late" format. Don't get me wrong, the quality of Blu Ray is fantastic, but hard copy media is finished, I only got the player to borrow good movies from work  I would never buy a Blu Ray disc, other than Planet Earth of course.


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

The only reason I have a Blu-Ray player right now is because of my PS3. Honestly, since I've owned the AppleTV, I don't get to watch Blu-Ray that much, nor do I care to. The last movie I watched in Blu-Ray was Transformers... the only type of movie where it actually makes a difference.

I wouldn't mind an external burner though.. just for the fact that you could burn almost an entire (huge) iTunes library onto one disc.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Yeah lots of questions about Blue-Ray from clients - we've put a few in MacPros but not a lot of satisfactory solutions as yet. 

•••

Update on my MacMini "replace the 8 core" experiment.

Very satisfactory - and my room is cooler 

I finally got booting off the internal on the MacMini and it seems fine but it tests only about 60% the speed of an external FW 800 set up.
Given the i/o seems the bottleneck an investment in a NewtechV3 or other FW 800 solution for boot seems a sage idea for anyone other than the basic user. I'd say it's more reliable too.
One nice thing the V3 gives is the missing FW 400 port AND eSATA port.

*So for a bit over $1k you can get a terrific Mac setup, dual core 2.0 processor, with dual drives, capable of driving TWO x 24" monitors, having all 4 types of ports including tons of USB - in a footprint the size of a CD case.  including 4 gigs of RAM...........and it's quiet.*
:clap:

oh yeah and will run both platforms....


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

Excellent assessment, MacDoc. 

Now, the sooner you answer your PM's, the quicker I can put your theories to the test   :lmao:


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## Tomac (Dec 31, 2002)

Picked up a base 2.0 GHz Mac mini (early 2009) on Friday -- Apple Store Vancouver. Put in 2x2GB RAM (Crucial) and a 500GB Seagate Momentus 7200.4. 

Tipping point in purchase decision: Dual display support. Incredibly powerful feature of the (early 2009) Mac mini -- IMHO. The ability to use MATCHING displays -- same make/model/size -- at the Mac mini price level should not go unnoticed. The only other option in Apple's current line-up to offer this MATCHING capability is the Mac Pro -- $2000+ more than the mini. For those who do not require the computational power of a Mac Pro, yet would like an increased "digital canvas" with MATCHING displays, the (early 2009) Mac mini has become an inexpensive -- subjective --solution. 

I will be attaching two Dell 2209WA e-IPS monitors -- one via the OPTIONAL Mini DisplayPort to DVI adapter -- when they arrive this week. Obtained these monitors during a limited time sale -- ended last week -- for $219.99 each.

Currently, I have the Mac mini connected to a Pioneer Kuro with an HDMI to DVI adapter. 

Nifty.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

MacDoc said:


> Given the i/o seems the bottleneck an investment in a NewtechV3 or other FW 800 solution for boot seems a sage idea for anyone other than the basic user. I'd say it's more reliable too.
> One nice thing the V3 gives is the missing FW 400 port AND eSATA port.


Do these two boxes lock together somehow?

I use a Mini with an external hard drive in a mini case plus a USB/firewire hub also in a very thin mini case - all stacked on top of each other.
Fits well and looks great, but in practice the three units always slide around and never stay properly stacked.


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

Yup, the MiniStack has a groove so that the Mini stays on top.. at least, I remember the old units did.


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

Tomac said:


> Picked up a base 2.0 GHz Mac mini (early 2009) on Friday -- Apple Store Vancouver. Put in 2x2GB RAM (Crucial) and a 500GB Seagate Momentus 7200.4.
> 
> Tipping point in purchase decision: Dual display support. Incredibly powerful feature of the (early 2009) Mac mini -- IMHO. The ability to use MATCHING displays -- same make/model/size -- at the Mac mini price level should not go unnoticed. The only other option in Apple's current line-up to offer this MATCHING capability is the Mac Pro -- $2000+ more than the mini. For those who do not require the computational power of a Mac Pro, yet would like an increased "digital canvas" with MATCHING displays, the (early 2009) Mac mini has become an inexpensive -- subjective --solution.
> 
> ...


You can add a second display to an iMac. An iMac is about the same price as a Mac Mini once you add the monitor, keyboard and mouse and DVI adapter to the Mini. Plus, you can easily upgrade the RAM on an iMac and it comes with a hard drive that's a respectable size.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

Just upgraded the mini to 2GB of RAM - amazing the difference doubling the RAM makes. In case there is some confusion regarding the available VRAM on the new mini, the available VRAM is dependent on the amount of RAM installed. With 1GB of RAM, it's 128 MB. With 2GB _or more_, the VRAM is capped at 256 MB. As per the screenshot, my base line mini now reads 256 MB of VRAM.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

hhk said:


> You can add a second display to an iMac.


Tomac was referring to dual _matching_ displays, not just any second display.

...*yet would like an increased "digital canvas" with MATCHING displays*...


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## Tomac (Dec 31, 2002)

hhk said:


> You can add a second display to an iMac. An iMac is about the same price as a Mac Mini once you add the monitor, keyboard and mouse and DVI adapter to the Mini. Plus, you can easily upgrade the RAM on an iMac and it comes with a hard drive that's a respectable size.


100%. 

However, I was targeting MATCHING dual displays -- not just the ability to add a secondary display. Although a secondary display may be attached, the iMac, MacBook (MB), and MacBook Pro (MBP) do not allow for the same, exact MATCHING secondary display. In my opinion, MATCHING displays, coupled with a Mac mini (early 2009) or Mac Pro provide a more UNIFORM computing experience -- same size, colour, viewing angle, height/tilt of display, etc. 

Hence, the Mac mini (early 2009) provides a MATCHING dual display option, which differentiates it from the more restrictive iMac, MB, and MBP coupled with a secondary, NON-MATCHING display.


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

Lars said:


> Tomac was referring to dual _matching_ displays, not just any second display.
> 
> ...*yet would like an increased "digital canvas" with MATCHING displays*...


Right. Should've paid better attention.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> You can add a second display to an iMac. An iMac is about the same price as a Mac Mini once you add the monitor, keyboard and mouse and DVI adapter to the Mini. Plus, you can easily upgrade the RAM on an iMac and it comes with a hard drive that's a respectable size.


Hardly - 

First many people have monitors kb and mouse.

Second the iMac display is awful - there is no word for.

Third I can put you into a MacMIni with 24" KB and mouse for $1129

It's all about choice....something Apple has tended to ignore. 



> Hence, the Mac mini (early 2009) provides a MATCHING dual display option, which differentiates it from the more restrictive iMac, MB, and MBP coupled with a secondary, NON-MATCHING display


Yep - 2 x 1600x1200 plus a Macmini gives a workspace just under that of a 30" for less than the 30" alone and you can go cheap or top of the line as YOU see fit.

or put 2 x 24: ( 4.3 million pixels ( and more workspace than a single 30" and still around $1500 complete.

The whole idea is it is a flexible yet powerful box.
So I can put a bundle for a 70 year old first timer with an easy on the eyes 19" to an intermediate graphics pro with a 12 bit screen and use the same box.

The NEXT step to that in an open box is $2900 for a bare MacPro.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

I just saw a refurbished Mac Mini on Apple's web site (which is sold by now), but.................

It was a 1.66 GHz with 512M of RAM and a 80 G hard drive for $739.- (It supposedly sold for $1099 at one time)
Why would anyone buy that over the new entry one at $729.-?
Does the old one have some compelling capability/feature that's missing on the new one?

I see that the internal modem disappeared at some time, but what else?


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I puzzle over Apple ( and some other vendor's prices ) at times......they seem to be depending on the "there's one born every minute" syndrome.

•••

Well all good things must come to an end .....and the new Mini replace an 8 core for day to day - it's that time - but I must stress the "good thing".

That I could forget about the missing monster often is a tribute to snappy graphics and fast internal architecture plus adequate RAM to handle things with aplomb.

A bit choppy on things like GoogleEarth flying but hell it's shared video and is driving 4 million pixels 

Highly highly recommended......2 gigs of RAM minimum tho and best is external FW800 boot if it's your main work box.

Well done Apple.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Followup.

Well back on the big beast and of course it feels much faster - _you don't know what you 've got til it's gone"_

Most noticeable is the load speed of everything - Velociraptor is such a treat and 16 gigs of RAM doesn't hurt :clap:.

I once characterized the 8core as the first Mac that feels like Sherman tank - just point it and it goes without hesitation no matter what you throw at it.
Just reaffirming that was worth the exercise. That I could forget I wasn't on the 8core for a while with the MM is a tribute to the little beauty.

Any ways - the new MacMini AND previous gen 8 cores are both winners IMNSHO 
Tell friends.


••••

Oh yeah - my room is warm again  - damn the thing puts out heat.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

hhk said:


> You can add a second display to an iMac. An iMac is about the same price as a Mac Mini once you add the monitor, keyboard and mouse and DVI adapter to the Mini. Plus, you can easily upgrade the RAM on an iMac and it comes with a hard drive that's a respectable size.


An iMac wont' fit in a stereo cabinet, at least not mine.


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

screature said:


> An iMac wont' fit in a stereo cabinet, at least not mine.


What I plan to do with the iMac is run a 25' DVI-HDMI cable + Toslink cable to my TV and receiver on the other side of the room, thus eliminating any computer in my AV cabinet. This way, I'm not trying to do computing tasks on a 52" TV and I have better access to the USB ports and slot drive.


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## gambletron (Feb 1, 2006)

(pardon the long post -- it's pretty rare I get to post after buying a freshly updated Mac!!!)

Re: The new mini in general:


> The NEXT step to that in an open box is $2900 for a bare MacPro


To me, that's exactly the problem. I've been working on this new Mini base model since last week, after buying my first Mini the week before following a CPU failure in my G5 tower. (Thankfully the Apple store staff waived the 10% "restocking fee" for me to switch Mini models, although the $90+ higher price --after taxes -- was excessive.)

When I frantically looked at the whole Apple line for a replacement Mac to keep working on, there was a gaping chasm between the Mini and the G5 that I doubt any other major computer maker has in their product lines. 

I just bought the same Dell IPS monitor (2209WA) someone mentioned earlier in this thread a month ago (stunning quality, above my high expectations). This made iMacs worthless to me. They seemed to follow the macbook lineup with few (if any) of the extra ports and upgradeability I need in a desktop. I'm sure imacs serve the casual web surfer, but I'm not one of them.

Given that I just lost a G5 tower far earlier than I'd hoped would happen back when I shelled out $4k+ four years ago, there was no way I'd pay $5,500.00 for today's equivalent, esp. when everyone's telling me I shouldn't have bought my first G5 so early into a product revision. (I have a 2nd or 3rd gen PowerPC G5, not the first liquid-cooled models. The advice I'm getting is it'd be a waste to keep spending money trying to fix it.)

The mini itself is passable, although both the FW port and at least one USB port are already worn out to the point where I've had to jiggle the cable a few times to get a printer or USB drive to appear. (Overall, the sturdiness seems a few steps below the prior base model, although it runs cooler. The port issue will have to be fixed, however!)

I'm booting from my same (former) G5 HD that had OSX 10.5.6-- it's a smooth enough transition, performance-wise, but there is no way I could survive for long with just the one FW port. (I have a time machine drive daisy-chained behind the FW boot drive, but it doesn't wake up from sleep mode if the first drive ever goes to sleep... same with any other drives daisy-chained from either of those two.) I would've much preferred a mini with one display port, 4 USB, 2 FW800 and one FW400.


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## gambletron (Feb 1, 2006)

(continuation of above post)

But I would've REALLY preferred the same processor and graphics card in a larger enclosure where I could at least add standard-sized RAM and upgrade with 3.5" HDs, and add PCIM cards or upgrade the video card. Considering how NORMAL such features would be in, say a $1200-1500 desktop from any other brand, it really drives home to me why Apple's share of desktop sales has stagnated. Unless I can get a decently working used G5 tower to tide me through the lean year or two ahead, I'm seriously thinking of building a hack, and keeping this mini as a backup.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

hhk said:


> What I plan to do with the iMac is run a 25' DVI-HDMI cable + Toslink cable to my TV and receiver on the other side of the room, thus eliminating any computer in my AV cabinet. This way, I'm not trying to do computing tasks on a 52" TV and I have better access to the USB ports and slot drive.


Makes sense if you plan to use it for computing. The Mini in my living room is basically an HTD which occasionally also gets used for some minor surfing so the headless form factor is perfect for me.


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## ertman (Jan 15, 2008)

gambletron said:


> (continuation of above post)
> 
> But I would've REALLY preferred the same processor and graphics card in a larger enclosure where I could at least add standard-sized RAM and upgrade with 3.5" HDs, and add PCIM cards or upgrade the video card. Considering how NORMAL such features would be in, say a $1200-1500 desktop from any other brand, it really drives home to me why Apple's share of desktop sales has stagnated. Unless I can get a decently working used G5 tower to tide me through the lean year or two ahead, I'm seriously thinking of building a hack, and keeping this mini as a backup.


So what you are really saying is that there is nothing wrong with the mini, there is just a hole in apples product offerings that could be fixed with a mini ormicro tower?

Interesting, I believe hp has some kind of standard desktop mini style hybrid. I don't know if it is already out, but it is suppose to have a really small form factor that uses desktop and laptop components, which means power efficiency with actual speed. Suppose to have something like desktop video cards, and some other stuff but using some laptop components to save on power and size. I guess it would be bigger than a mini but smaller than a shuttle pc.


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## IllusionX (Mar 10, 2009)

geez... after reading the 7 pages of replies... i'm sooooo temped to get the new MM now. especially for 669$+ tax...

i'm really getting alot of ideas through my head now... lol


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## gambletron (Feb 1, 2006)

I read a number of other Mac forums last night and am astonished at how little disappointment with Mac's recent updates there are on this board compared to all the other message boards. The whole "less value for a higher price during a recession will kill their desktop market share" is a constant theme. Maybe I just missed the threads on here that were filled with such opinions.

I have to say, I am most definitely NOT happy with this mac mini. It took me hours to start up from my boot drive this morning. The FW port is definitely faulty. The drive works no problem if I plug it into one of the non-faulty USB ports (one of those is also unreliable), but I can't daisy chain other FW drives behind it (i.e. Time Machine) if it's plugged into USB. After lots of plugging and un-plugging of the boot drive between re-starts, I finally got it working again. The same boot drive (albeit with a FW400 cable instead) had no problems with the previous MacMini, and a second data FW800 drive had the same problem of not showing up. I tried using Techtool Pro Deluxe and the latest Diskwarrior to search for the drive when it wasn't showing up on the desktop, to no avail (although DW's site has been down for a week, so maybe the program is out of date for these macs.)

I will give them one chance to replace this and see if the next one's ports are sturdier. If they aren't, this is being refunded and will likely be the last new Mac I purchase.

ertman, re: the hole in Apple's product line, have you looked at any other computer maker's lineup? There is a rainbow of desktop offerings using the same components as the mini and imacs. I don't want something as tiny and inflexible as this plastic Mini, I was forced to buy one to keep working after my G5 died. No way can I afford the new MacPros and the iMacs are useless plastic toys as far as my needs are concerned. Unless everyone here is a Mac re-seller or repairperson, I can't figure out why there is only gushing about the new lineup and price points.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

You are in a fix - hope we can help you.


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## gambletron (Feb 1, 2006)

well, I didn't post this in the troubleshooting subforum because it's more of a "first impression" of this new MacMini.

It would be nice to know if anyone else has had issues with ports on any of the new models -- I fear Apple may have gone for cheaper ports this time around. I'm still crossing my fingers it's just the one I bought that has bad ports... I am very careful when I shop for HD enclosures because of how many companies use low quality ports (i.e. Mediasonic ... I chose OWC, currently booting from their fastest & latest FW800 enclosure). 

I'm also curious whether you would recommend a program besides Diskwarrior or Techtool that can verify ports or external drives that don't show up on the desktop. It is strange that DW's website is partially down (none of the support or upgrade pages are active) ... I wouldn't mind running some sort of diagnostic rather than be forced to trudge back to the Apple store for the third time in 2 weeks.

If any of you think it's worth posting queries about the dead CPU in my G5 on the troubleshooting subforum, I could give it a shot. From what I can tell researching the problem (and from what the authorized repair shop has said), everything has been tried that could be tried on it.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

gambletron said:


> It would be nice to know if anyone else has had issues with ports on any of the new models -- I fear Apple may have gone for cheaper ports this time around.


The ignorance behind such statements is astonishing. It's very possible your new Mac mini (Early 2009 one, or a last generation one?) is DOA (Dead/Damaged on Arrival). It happens. With any product. From any manufacturer. Instead of moaning like it matters, why don't you return to the place you purchase it from or get the unit serviced?

It's really not that hard.

My less-than-a-week old Mac mini is running flawlessly.


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## gambletron (Feb 1, 2006)

wow this is really one of those forums where the slightest criticism of Apple or their products is seriously taboo! 

This is a brand new 2009 mac mini. The 2008 model I had a couple of weeks ago didn't have the problem. I mentioned clearly that I plan to return it but thought maybe someone knew of a program that can verify ports for problems first.


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## Elric (Jul 30, 2005)

gambletron said:


> wow this is really one of those forums where the slightest criticism of Apple or their products is seriously taboo!
> 
> This is a brand new 2009 mac mini. The 2008 model I had a couple of weeks ago didn't have the problem. I mentioned clearly that I plan to return it but thought maybe someone knew of a program that can verify ports for problems first.


No criticism, just the fact that if we bought something that didn't work out of the box, why troubleshoot it? Just return it.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

gambletron said:


> well, I didn't post this in the troubleshooting subforum because it's more of a "first impression" of this new MacMini.
> 
> It would be nice to know if anyone else has had issues with ports on any of the new models -- I fear Apple may have gone for cheaper ports this time around. I'm still crossing my fingers it's just the one I bought that has bad ports... I am very careful when I shop for HD enclosures because of how many companies use low quality ports (i.e. Mediasonic ... I chose OWC, currently booting from their fastest & latest FW800 enclosure).
> 
> ...


FWIW Unless things have changed in the past 2 years, if any hardware issue arises in the first week Apple considers it DOA which means you can get an on the spot replacement.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

gambletron said:


> I fear Apple may have gone for cheaper ports this time around. I'm still crossing my fingers it's just the one I bought that has bad ports... I am very careful when I shop for HD enclosures because of how many companies use low quality ports (i.e. Mediasonic ... I chose OWC, currently booting from their fastest & latest FW800 enclosure).


What exactly do you mean by cheaper or low quality ports?

The actual physical connector or the electronics related to it?

I have never come across that type of issue although I suppose it's possible.

Glad you like OWC - I'm still pissed with them because they wouldn't replace an upgrade CPU that failed after a couple of months. They are never going to see any of my business again.


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## gambletron (Feb 1, 2006)

Cheaper ports are those that are not as well soldered to the board so that some of the pins can detach after repeated plugging and unplugging of a cable. It's a common problem with cheap enclosures and cheap external drives -- any in-depth review of enclosures or externals that you can google would mention the quality of the ports. Mediasonic has not received many good reviews in that regard, and a friend of mine had to solder her Nexstar external's USB port back onto the board to get it to work again.

I'm guessing this is the problem with 2 of the ports on my new Mini, unless it's a driver of some sort, but no one has replied with suggestions for diagnostic software to check ports with. I will be returning it as soon as I have the chance, and really hope it isn't a generalized quality issue. (If it is, you can all say you read about it here first!)


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## mattcass (Mar 11, 2009)

Just ordered a 2.26 GHz/4GB RAM/120GB Mini. Used my brother's educational discount. $999. Only went with 120 GB because I plan on getting a 1 TB Ministack V3.

Haven't decided on a monitor yet but I'm leaning towards (and waiting for a Dell Days deal on - the eco-friendly Dell G2410 or G2210. Together with the mini I will hopefully have a super-efficient desktop setup! It will also be a nice upgrade from my circa 2003 Powerbook G4 1 GHz (still going strong!!).

WIll post opinions once it is up and running.


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

I've been putting the new Mini through its paces.. seems to hold up strong.

I'm awaiting a v3 MiniStack from MacDoc and I'm going to be updating the RAM in the spring. Love it so far.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

MacDoc said:


> Third I can put you into a MacMIni with 24" KB and mouse for $1129


A 24" keyboard? At last, a kb for my big butterfingers!


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

gambletron said:


> Cheaper ports are those that are not as well soldered to the board so that some of the pins can detach after repeated plugging and unplugging of a cable.


Why are you "repeatedly plugging and unplugging cables" in the first place?

Get a FW hub and a USB hub. Regardless of whether the ports are iffy or not, this not only saves wear and tear on the machine but provides you with additional ports.

Kind of a no-brainer I would have thought ...



> I will be returning it as soon as I have the chance, and really hope it isn't a generalized quality issue. (If it is, you can all say you read about it here first!)


It isn't. You read that here first.

MacDoc, myself, Lars, and many others on this forum work closely with Apple Dealers (or ARE Apple dealers) and generally get to see many machines set up. We tend to discover the "road apples" pretty quickly.

This one has been out for a little while, and perhaps its too early to make the call, but yours is the ONLY report I've seen here regarding this issue, and your experience is not matched in mine and my other consultant friends' experience.


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

chas_m said:


> Why are you "repeatedly plugging and unplugging cables" in the first place?
> 
> Get a FW hub and a USB hub. Regardless of whether the ports are iffy or not, this not only saves wear and tear on the machine but provides you with additional ports.
> 
> ...


If there is truly a problem with the Mini's ports are you saying we should all buy hubs to compensate?

The USB 2.0 specification states a minimum of 1500 insertion/extraction cycles and 10,000 cycles for a ruggedized Standard "A" port. That's a minimum. 

Having lived with a Mini for over a year, I would say buy a hub to compensate for Apple's insistence on placing the ports on the back of the machine instead of where the user can easily access them.


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## Elric (Jul 30, 2005)

I too am confused why you would touch them after plugging them in once... except maybe to tidy and clean the area once in awhile....


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

gambletron said:


> Cheaper ports are those that are not as well soldered to the board so that some of the pins can detach after repeated plugging and unplugging of a cable.


Where did you get that information?

Connectors should always be mechanically fastened - the solder connection should only ever be used as the electrical connection. Repeated plugging and unplugging should place absolutely no strain on the solder connection.
I spent more than ten years in electronic circuit design and no electrical engineer would dream of using the soldered pins of a connector as a mechanical connection.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

Elric said:


> I too am confused why you would touch them after plugging them in once... except maybe to tidy and clean the area once in awhile....


There are situations where you connect and disconnect both firewire and USB cable multiple times, but that should never become an issue.
Examples are downloading pictures from a camera using the supplied USB cable, or transferring data using a USB stick or taking a firewire drive to another Mac to boot from it etc.


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

Call me simplistic but I ave never seen or heard of a bad USB connection on a computer. Same thing for firewire. By contrast headphone jacks always end up failing at some point, no matter who the manufacturer seems to be...


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

hhk said:


> If there is truly a problem with the Mini's ports are you saying we should all buy hubs to compensate?


No. Please re-read the second half of my post.

If you have genuinely defective ports (which only a certified Apple tech can ascertain), then you should have that fixed under warranty. I said that before, here it is AGAIN.

All I was saying is that even high-quality ports will suffer "wear and tear" like any other exposed portion of a laptop, and that a hub minimises this possibility.



> Having lived with a Mini for over a year, I would say buy a hub to compensate for Apple's insistence on placing the ports on the back of the machine instead of where the user can easily access them.


I usually work by feel -- but certainly your advice is very sound as well.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Moscool said:


> Call me simplistic but I _h_ave never seen or heard of a bad USB connection on a computer. Same thing for firewire. By contrast headphone jacks always end up failing at some point, no matter who the manufacturer seems to be...


Back in my school board days part of the set up routine was to check all the FW and USB ports. Maybe 1 computer in 100 was declared DOA and replaced because of one or more defective ports. Beyond that ports and cable ends certainly can wear and become unusable.

I keep a USB cable attached to one USB port. I plug sticks and readers into the cable to reduce wear and tear on my third port.


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## gambletron (Feb 1, 2006)

Well, I think I know what my problem is: I'm using my Mini vertically (which the manual allows) but FW800 ports are not always as stable in that position as the FW400 one the prior Mini had.

After much digging, I found a review of an HD enclosure I came across last year when I was shopping for one. Pertinent excerpts:



> ... a potential long term negative we found with the SU2FWB model ... all three FireWire port connectors did display an alarming amount of flex while plugging in a cable. On close inspection it becomes apparent that none of the ports are reinforced and this flexing is the actual solder connections flexing. These solder points may break after extended use because of this flexing. It is puzzling why Mediasonic did not notice this issue in product testing, or did they notice it and did not see fit to reinforce the connectors?


Another excerpt, after extensive runtime testing:



> the FireWire cables and the FireWire ports themselves on the SU2FWB had become loose and allowed the cables enough flex in the ports which causes random disconnects. This problem was only temporarily alleviated by replacing the cable with a known good one. The final solution was to place the unit on its side and use the known good cable. This new orientation, did not allow the cables to sag enough to disconnect ...


Such "random disconnects" are what I was experiencing as soon as I replaced the older Mini with the new model last week. It occurs without any apparent touching or movement of the cables or the mini -- it seems like the natural gradual flexing of the attached cable is enough to do it. It has nothing to do with plugging and unplugging cables into the port too often. It's possible that it isn't the whole port disconnecting from the Mini but the cable itself wiggling loose from its connectors in that position. (In case you're wondering, I did try multiple cables when the problem began appearing.)

Obviously a FW800 hub (if such things were at all easy to find) wouldn't help, since the hub would still have to plug into the same shaky port. Using the Mini flat down rather than on its side might be my only solution. This is not convenient due to limited desk space and 3 cats who would need multiple barriers to be kept from sitting on the Mini. (I used to keep my G5 tower under the desk.) It's also much easier to access the ports and insert CDs/DVDs when the mini is upright (and looks MUCH better, IMO, sort of like a teeny weeny MacPro). 

Since I use the Mini as a backup and will always be booting from a FW external to use it, any continued "random disconnects" would be a deal-breaker for me. A random disconnect literally shuts OSX down in a fraction of a second without warning. I lose all data since the last save and have to reopen all programs etc. 

I'll try laying it flat for a few days before getting it replaced or refunded. I'm still concerned the port Apple is using is not as reinforced as it should be (perhaps due to the very limited space they have.) It certainly isn't as solid-feeling to plug a cable into as the FW800 ports on my external drives or old G5. I'll be bringing an external and a cable to the Apple store to test with in case I do get this one replaced.


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