# Japan's Nuclear engineers deserve much credit



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Here's why from people that know.....



> _There was and will *not* be any significant release of radioactivity
> 
> By “significant” I mean a level of radiation of more than what you would receive on – say – a long distance flight, or drinking a glass of beer that comes from certain areas with high levels of natural background radiation._


you will also be reasonably well informed about nuclear reactors.....and admire the Japanese for their engineering skills

Fukushima Nuclear Accident – a simple and accurate explanation « BraveNewClimate

and


> *What happened at Fukushima*
> I will try to summarize the main facts. *The earthquake that hit Japan was 5 times more powerful than the worst earthquake the nuclear power plant was built for *(the Richter scale works logarithmically; the difference between the 8.2 that the plants were built for and the 8.9 that happened is 5 times, not 0.7).* So the first hooray for Japanese engineering, everything held up.*
> 
> When the earthquake hit with 8.9, the nuclear reactors all went into automatic shutdown. Within seconds after the earthquake started, the control rods had been inserted into the core and nuclear chain reaction of the uranium stopped. Now, the cooling system has to carry away the residual heat. The residual heat load is about 3% of the heat load under normal operating conditions.
> ...


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

*continued*



> § The seawater will then be replaced over time with the “normal” cooling water
> § The reactor core will then be dismantled and transported to a processing facility, just like during a regular fuel change.
> § Fuel rods and the entire plant will be checked for potential damage. This will take about 4-5 years.
> § The safety systems on all Japanese plants will be upgraded to withstand a 9.0 earthquake and tsunami (or worse)
> ...


http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS_Battle_to_stabilise_earthquake_reactors_1203111 .html§ http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS_Venting_at_Fukushima_Daiichi_3_1303111.html
§ http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/12/japan-nuclear-earthquake/​§ http://ansnuclearcafe.org/2011/03/11/media-updates-on-nuclear-power-stations-in-japan/

There are far worse ecological consequences from this than ANY nuclear risk - but you won't see that in the anti-nuclear fear mongering rags called the popular press....


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## adagio (Aug 23, 2002)

Someone else pointed out, the press is lapping up this nuclear stuff. Sells lots of papers or generates plenty of clicks. 

I worked all my life with radioactive isotopes. The general population hasn't a clue about different forms of radiation and it's place in the natural environment. They see the word "radioactive" and freak. It's nice to read a calm explanation of what is happening in Japan. You won't hear it on CNN though.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

So... stories like this one are nothing to be concerned about, then?

*Military Crew Said to Be Exposed to Radiation, but Officials Call Risk in U.S. Slight*



> ...the aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan, which is sailing in the Pacific, passed through a radioactive cloud from stricken nuclear reactors in Japan, causing crew members on deck to receive a month’s worth of radiation in about an hour, government officials said Sunday.
> 
> The officials added that American helicopters flying missions about 60 miles north of the damaged reactors became coated with particulate radiation that had to be washed off.





> ...the episodes showed that the prevailing winds were picking up radioactive material from crippled reactors in northeastern Japan. Ever since an earthquake struck Japan on Friday, the authorities worldwide have been laying plans to map where radioactive plumes might blow and determine what, if any, danger they could pose to people.


(NY Times)


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## Chagwa (Apr 23, 2009)

I never realized until now how many power plants we had in Canada, especially in Ontario...

Nuclear Power in Canada


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## 9780 (Sep 14, 2006)

CubaMark said:


> So... stories like this one are nothing to be concerned about, then?
> 
> *Military Crew Said to Be Exposed to Radiation, but Officials Call Risk in U.S. Slight*
> 
> ...


No, because when you read the details (I don't know if the NYTimes reported the details), you read that the quantity that was detected on the crewmembers was less than what we get exposed to NATURALLY within a month of just living our normal lives with normal radiation fro m the Earth/cosmos hitting us from all sides.

In other words, they were withdrawn as a precaution, and once again the word "radioactivity" is used to get hits/sell papers.

It's good to know, it's not good to panic.

Patrix
Still rocking in Tokyo.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Only partially related from a recent news article:



> ...Plant operator TEPCO has had a rocky past in an industry plagued by scandal. In 2002, the president of the country's largest power utility was forced to resign along with four other senior executives, taking responsibility for suspected falsification of nuclear plant safety records.
> 
> Many Japanese flooded social networking sites with worries about the plant.
> 
> "I can't trust TEPCO," said a person with the handlename Tanuki Atsushi on mixi, the Japanese social networking site. ...


I include it with the thought that everything we read on this incident neg or pos should probably be taken as at least slightly stretching the truth in whatever direction the author wishes to stretch.

I do hope that the assessment that they are past the point of a possible meltdown is accurate. The one thing that is very obvious is that the Japanese were much better prepared to handle this type of incident than their Russian counterparts.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

latest summary



> Another hydrogen explosion has rocked the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, this time at the third reactor unit. Initial analysis is that the containment structure remains intact.
> 
> The blast that occurred at 11.01am today was much larger than the one seen at unit 1 two days ago. An orange flash came before a large column of brown and grey smoke. A large section of the relatively lightweight roof was seen to fly upwards before landing back on other power plant buildings.
> 
> ...


Japan Nuclear Situation – 14 March updates « BraveNewClimate

more



> World Nuclear News provides a regularly updated commentary:
> *Efforts to manage Fukushima Daiichi 3. The bottom line:*
> 
> Unit 1: Seawater injection continues and it is thought the reactor core is now sufficiently cool. Safety regulators consider reactor pressure of 353 kPa an indication of a stable condition.
> ...


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

We should be commending Japanese engineers of all kinds for their diligent work in many fields.

This quake is now classified as a 9.0. This level of quake and type of quake would have levelled many cities if it occurred in their vicinity, including BC and US west coast cities. 

The tsunami can't be engineered for, outside of moving your town to higher ground. When the big one happens just west of Vancouver Island, probably a subduction quake and a 9 as well, we will see several towns vanish off the map because of the tsunami, but our level of earthquake engineering and lower building standards will ensure many will die in buildings. 

The final death toll in Japan is going to be huge, mainly due to the tsunami, but areas not affected by the tsunami did remarkably well because of Japanese foresight and preparation.

The question of nuclear power in earthquake zones is that it is less risky in a country like Japan where they understand the need to prepare. In our countries or other countries with less attention to earthquake and preparation, we could be looking at Chernobyls.


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## 9780 (Sep 14, 2006)

It's not finished, reactor #2 might go into meltdown. There's gonna be a press conference in about 40 minutes, we'll see what the govt has to say...


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Tuesday morning notes...*

*AFP: Germany shuts down seven reactors*



> Germany announced Tuesday the temporary shutdown of the oldest seven of its 17 nuclear reactors pending a safety review in light of Japan's atomic emergency.
> "We are launching a safety review of all nuclear reactors ... with all reactors in operation since the end of 1980 set to be idled for the period of the (three-month) moratorium," Chancellor Angela Merkel said.


* * * 

*Japan's PM warns of radiation risk*



> Dangerous levels of radiation leaking from a crippled nuclear plant forced *Japan to order 140,000 people to seal themselves indoors *Tuesday after an explosion and a fire dramatically escalated the crisis spawned by a deadly earthquake and tsunami.
> 
> In a nationally televised statement, Prime Minister Naoto Kan said radiation has spread from the four stricken reactors of the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant along Japan's northeastern coast.


* * * 

*Nuclear fears prompt rush for pills in B.C.*



> British Columbians spooked by ongoing explosions at Japan's quake-damaged nuclearplants are making a run on pharmacies, hoping to boost immunity to any potential radiation drift.
> 
> But the provincial government, health officials and pharmacists themselves are encouraging people to stand down from stockpiling potassium iodide, saying no health risks exist.


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

Spoke too soon. It looks like the nuclear industry in Japan is subject to the same kind of profits-trump-safety thinking that nuclear utilities around the world have often succumbed to. 

Japan earthquake: Japan warned over nuclear plants, WikiLeaks cables show - Telegraph


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Perhaps this will result in future reactors using Thorium as a fuel. The advantage of being able to build whatever size needed, plentiful fuel sources, eliminating the chance of core meltdowns, and much shorter half-life of spent fuel together far outweigh the perceived disadvantage that they cannot be used to create weapons grade Plutonium.


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## 9780 (Sep 14, 2006)

Well considering things still seem out of control, I'm now down in Oosaka. Safer distance, then we'll see what happens.

At least there's a big airport around, and some tourism opportunity as well hehe!

Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

The news is not good this morning, at least on the 730AM CBC News. We shall see.


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## AlexSno (Feb 10, 2011)

Dr.G. said:


> The news is not good this morning, at least on the 730AM CBC News. We shall see.


What are they saying? Didn't manage to see anything at TV for a couple of days!


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

AlexSno said:


> What are they saying? Didn't manage to see anything at TV for a couple of days!


This was on CBC Radio 1.

Try the Washington Post article --

Breaking News Alert: Japanese officials pulling all workers from damaged nuclear plant
March 15, 2011 10:39:07 PM
--------------------

The skeleton crew remaining at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is being evacuated because of the risk they face from dangerous radiation levels, a Japanese government spokesman said Wednesday morning.

Latest nuclear plant explosion in Japan raises radiation fears - The Washington Post


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## KC4 (Feb 2, 2009)

patrix said:


> Well considering things still seem out of control, I'm now down in Oosaka. Safer distance, then we'll see what happens.
> 
> At least there's a big airport around, and some tourism opportunity as well hehe!
> 
> Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk


Stay safe patrix. Are people taking potassium iodide tablets where you are? 


Dr.G. said:


> This was on CBC Radio 1.
> 
> Try the Washington Post article --
> 
> ...


The workers have since returned. (Phew) I also see that the "guidelines" for allowable radiation exposure have been raised. The people who are working on these reactors in these conditions are heroes. They are obviously putting their own welfare at risk in order to protect others.

Now they are considering the use of a water cannon. Japan eyes water cannon to cool troubled reactor - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Hopefully I am summarizing the WP reasonably accurately.

It is the same explosion that was reported yesterday, however there has been a second spike in released radiation.

In order for workers to return on site the guidelines were raised from 100 to 250 MilliSieverts. As near as I have been able to figure out, a dosage of 1000 MS; is defined as being sufficient to cause radiation sickness. 

IOW these plant workers are indeed risking their lives. (My thoughts not the official government line)


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

News is very bad tonight. Reactor 4 had ~8 sets of "spent" reactor cores which were in a storage pond protected only by the outer containment shell. 

Storage pond is now completely dry, and containment is breached. This may well make the entire plant too radioactive to safely pursue attempts to re-immerse partially exposed rods in the other reactors.

To make things worse reactors 5 and 6 have a similarly idiotic arrangement and will probably suffer a similar fate. And of course a high probability that at least some of the spent rods contain Plutonium.


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## 9780 (Sep 14, 2006)

I'm almost as far west from Tokyo as I can be in Japan right now.. if things still get worse by morning, I'm escaping the country lol. 

I don't want to, I love Japan and the people, but safety comes first.

Sent from my SH-03C


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## imactheknife (Aug 7, 2003)

patrix said:


> I'm almost as far west from Tokyo as I can be in Japan right now.. if things still get worse by morning, I'm escaping the country lol.
> 
> I don't want to, I love Japan and the people, but safety comes first.
> 
> Sent from my SH-03C


I have a friend who lives 300 km's from where this is happening, and I think he is ready to pack it in. He has lived there since 1996.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

patrix said:


> I'm almost as far west from Tokyo as I can be in Japan right now.. if things still get worse by morning, I'm escaping the country lol.
> 
> I don't want to, I love Japan and the people, but safety comes first.
> 
> Sent from my SH-03C


Bonne chance, mon ami. Hopefully, you shall not have to relocate. Paix.


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## 9780 (Sep 14, 2006)

imactheknife said:


> I have a friend who lives 300 km's from where this is happening, and I think he is ready to pack it in. He has lived there since 1996.


wow, must be hard to leave all that behind. I was living just west of the Tokyo 23 Wards, and I left with only one bag. So much behind, so many friends... So sad.



Dr.G. said:


> Bonne chance, mon ami. Hopefully, you shall not have to relocate. Paix.


thanks Dr G, I'm hoping for the best, but I don't mind relocating if I have to. Health and life comes first. For sure I'm witnessing something historic, I've seen things I never saw before in Japan (packed bullet trains vs non-packed Tokyo trains, for example). Bloody hell.

Heck I even like this place where I'm at now, people are friendly all over town, it's still modern, it's still Japan... So who knows heeh.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

patrix said:


> wow, must be hard to leave all that behind. I was living just west of the Tokyo 23 Wards, and I left with only one bag. So much behind, so many friends... So sad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Let us hope that it shall not come down to your leaving, patrix ........ for your sake, and the sake of all in that area of Japan. Paix, mon ami.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Situation with Japan's nuclear plants today is getting worse, not better:
*
*Japan's increasingly frantic efforts at nuke plant*



> Japan tried high-pressure water cannons, fire trucks and even helicopters that dropped batches of seawater in increasingly frantic attempts Thursday to cool an overheated nuclear complex as U.S. officials warned the situation was deteriorating.
> 
> Two Japanese military CH-47 Chinook helicopters began dumping seawater on the complex's damaged Unit 3 at 9:48 a.m. (8:48 p.m. EDT), defense ministry spokeswoman Kazumi Toyama said. The choppers dumped at least four loads on the reactor in just the first 10 minutes, though television footage showed much of it appearing to disperse in the wind.
> 
> ...


*Also:*



> The most urgent focus of Japan's worsening nuclear crisis is the threat from radioactive fuel that has already been used in the Fukushima Daiichi reactors and awaits disposal. In the United States, the nuclear industry has amassed about 70,000 tons of such potentially deadly waste material — and we have nowhere to put it.
> 
> U.S. officials' increasingly dire assessment of the situation in Japan stems largely from the fact that spent fuel rods — which were stored in pools of water to keep them cool — have apparently become uncovered.
> 
> ...


(Investors.com)

*And in our own back yard:
*
*Pickering nuclear plant "leaked radioactive water"*



> Thousands of liters of radioactive water have been released into Lake Ontario as a result of an accident at a Canadian nuclear power plant, according to authorities.
> 
> "The event was a low level regulatory event with only negligible effect to the environment and no public health implications," Ontario Power said in a statement on Wednesday.
> 
> The power company, which is owned by the Ontario provincial government, said 73,000 liters (19,280 gallons) of radioactive water was released into Lake Ontario from the Pickering Nuclear Station.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Finally saw some radiation readings taken around the reactor. Nothing so far to indicate that any of the zirconium casings of the fuel rods have been completely compromised. Time is an ally here as the reactors were properly shut down and they did managed to maintain some cooling to all the cores for at least three days, so hopefully in a few more days the danger of worst case scenario will have passed.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Best summary and comparison yet



> *Is the Japanese nuclear fallout mostly hot air?*
> date: March 18, 2011 |
> 
> There has been massive coverage of the Fukushima nuclear reactor following the 8.9-magnitude earthquakes that hit Japan, including a Wikipedia page that seems to be evolving by the hour (sometimes by the minute).
> ...


updates on the reactors from science sources here

BraveNewClimate

and

Why Fukushima Daiichi won't be another Chernobyl - physics-math - 17 March 2011 - New Scientist


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## 9780 (Sep 14, 2006)

Things are looking up, now that they're using firetrucks and hoses instead of spreading water into the air above the reactors like they tried with the helicopters lol (I was yelling FAIL at the TV when I saw that hahaha).

Meanwhile, I'm taking this chance to be a tourist on Kyushu. I can't believe it took a nuclear disaster to get me to Kyushu, something I wanted to do for a long time. lol. Promised myself I wouldn't wait to do what I want to do, it makes no sense.

Patrix.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Today's media roundup describes the Japan nuclear situation today as being at the "Three Mile Island" level.

Gee. That's encouraging.

*What No One Ever Told You About The Long-Term Effects Of Three Mile Island's Nuclear Accident*



> I've been listening for days now to TV talking heads explaining that potential radiation from a nuclear accident is not usually such a big deal, and they often bring up Three Mile Island as an example. ("If this is as bad as it gets, it's all good!") But nuclear energy lobbyists are working overtime to make sure no one looks too closely at what really happened there. If you want to know, go read this entire story from On The Issues magazine...


(Crooks & Liars)


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## arminia (Jan 27, 2005)

Japan increases nuclear alert level - World - CBC News


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

From above:



> While crews worked to cool the reactors, the plant's operator, Tokyo Electric Power Co., is trying to restore power to at least part of the damaged plant.
> 
> 
> "The company said today it made progress in restoring some power in a bid to restart the plant's electric cooling systems," CBC's Curt Petrovich said from Tokyo. "But given that there has been such extensive damage, it's not clear how much good that's going to do."


I was wondering the same thing. That and why additional diesel generator(s) were not choppered in as soon as the built-in back-up failed? Size restriction may have required more than one. Might not have eliminated damage but could have moderated it.


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## 9780 (Sep 14, 2006)

eMacMan said:


> That and why additional diesel generator(s) were not choppered in as soon as the built-in back-up failed?


Tsunami + hydrogen explosions made additional backup generators kinda difficult to survive or be installed right away, from what I can remember... I remember reading some news that some of the generators were damaged in all those hydrogen blasts that occurred in the days following the earthquake.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

MacDoc said:


> Best summary and comparison yet


Watch this documentary and then tell me how accurate you think those deaths per TW hour are.

It's also difficult to weigh the risks against each other because they are not distributed in the same way. A major nuclear incident could cause thousands and thousands of deaths, but it happens very infrequently. With oil or coal, extreme events happen all time but generally have small death consequences. 

The risks of this whole industry need to be reconsidered once we know exactly what happened in Japan.





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

*Nuclear Problem In Japan: Is Obama Partly Responsible?*

Ran across this today on the morning blog run:



> 2226: The Yomiuri Shimbun newspaper, quoting a senior official of the ruling Democratic Party of Japan, said the US made the offer immediately after the disaster damaged Fukushima No 1 nuclear plant. According to the unnamed senior official, US support was based on dismantling the troubled reactors run by Tokyo Electric Power (TEPCO) some 250 km (155 miles) northeast of Tokyo. However, the government and TEPCO thought the cooling system could be restored by themselves, the report said.





> Am I reading this right?
> 
> Our government demanded that the Japanese dismantle - that is, permanently remove - over five gigawatts of power in order to help them with a critical safety problem that had the potential to destroy 100 square miles of land and kill or injure thousands of people?
> 
> ...


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## 9780 (Sep 14, 2006)

Too many people (who are far away from here) would love to use any disaster, any situation, as political ammo. Same as all the panic over the falling NIKKEN index, or the dollar, or the yen.

I ignore all that crap. Real people's lives are affected here, all the rest loses meaning.


Patrix.


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## 9780 (Sep 14, 2006)

Power restored, nuclear reactors are cooling, things seem to be looking up. Now just have to wait for them to be optimistic about it, and for the radiation levels and radioactive particles levels around Tokyo before I go back 


Patrix.


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## AlexSno (Feb 10, 2011)

Vandave said:


> Watch this documentary and then tell me how accurate you think those deaths per TW hour are.
> 
> It's also difficult to weigh the risks against each other because they are not distributed in the same way. A major nuclear incident could cause thousands and thousands of deaths, but it happens very infrequently. With oil or coal, extreme events happen all time but generally have small death consequences.
> 
> ...


those were different times. Know a lot about that Europe region and believe me things were pretty nasty at that time and even many years after. 
But i think in the year 2011 things will take a better turn then in the Ukraine disaster.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

AlexSno said:


> those were different times. Know a lot about that Europe region and believe me things were pretty nasty at that time and even many years after.
> But i think in the year 2011 things will take a better turn then in the Ukraine disaster.


That's fine, but it's not really my point. 

My point is that we have only been doing this for 50 years and we have had a number of significant incidents. What does the 1 in 100 year event look like? 1 in 200? 1 in 500? With nuclear power there is a potential of very high consequence events, albiet of low risk and low frequency. It's just like earthquakes. 

I am not sure we have done a proper accounting of those risks and outcomes.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Since Thorium reactors present a far lower risk, at the mining, processing, power and waste disposal stages it is way past time to start developing this alternative. Makes no matter to me that they won't produce enough Plutonium to make thermonuclear bombs. I believe China is already pursuing this as they have very few Uranium deposits.

Simply being able to place appropriately sized reactors near major population centres is worth it just for the savings in long distance transmission lines.


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## 9780 (Sep 14, 2006)

Well. I'm back in Tokyo if anyone's wondering. Radiation risks don't appear too high at the moment, so I chose the comforts of home over the wanderer lifestyle.

Though I'll be traveling soon anyway, just in April instead of March like I had planned.

At least now we get frequent updates about the situation, so it's easier to keep an eye on it and to be prepared.

Patrix. 

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

*Or maybe not*

Cannot believe this this thread has been idle for a week, especially as the problem does continue to escalate.



> By RYAN NAKASHIMA and MARI YAMAGUCHI, Associated Press – Sun Apr 3, 11:46 am ET
> TOKYO – Engineers pinned their hopes on chemicals, sawdust and shredded newspaper to stop highly radioactive water pouring into the ocean from Japan's tsunami-ravaged nuclear plant Sunday as officials said it will take several months to bring the crisis under control, the first time they have provided a timetable.
> 
> Concrete already failed to stop the tainted water spewing from a crack in a maintenance pit, and the new mixture did not appear to be working either, but engineers said they were not abandoning it.
> ...


From here: Engineers pin hopes on polymer to stop nuke leak - Yahoo! News


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## 9780 (Sep 14, 2006)

Like with any major world event, it loses its oomph after 2 weeks and the news moves to something else and people gradually forget 

I got radiation scanned at the airport in Korea, btw, and I'm fine (along with all the other passengers), so Tokyo is still pretty safe  Just tough to find yogurt and eggs right now lol

Patrix.


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## WCraig (Jul 28, 2004)

There are some cringe-worthy typos in the following, but I generally agree with his premise that the mass media have been worse than useless at reporting on this problem.

The Nuclear Green Revolution: Fukushima Dai-ichi: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly



> The good, paradoxically enough include the Japanese nuclear plants, which performed up to specifications, and would have lived out their useful lives had they not been subjected to an unusual event, a 500 year tsunami. Even at their worse, they have not produced large scale casualties. The nearby Fukushima dam performed far worse, it burst during the March 11th earthquake, 5 houses were washed away in the insuing flood, and 8 people turned up missing.





> The media performance during the Dai-ichi accident has been disgraceful. The media has been almost uniformly ill informed. Reporters who know nothing have done very well as panic mongers. The media has turned a industrial accident that occurred as the result of a truly horrible natural disaster, into a major story that has diverted attention away from the real story, the damage the earthquake/tsunami has done to Japan, and the thousands of casualties, and focused global attention on one aspect of the story, the Dai-ichi accident. Even worse, the media has spread an enormous amount of panic around the world concerning almost entirely harmless amounts of radioactive material. The performance of the media thus truly belong in the bad category.


Craig


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Seawater radiation measured at 7.5 million times legal limit*



> The operator of Japan's stricken Fukushima nuclear plant said Tuesday that it had found radioactive iodine at 7.5 million times the legal limit in a seawater sample taken near the facility, and government officials imposed a new health limit for radioactivity in fish.
> 
> The reading of iodine-131 was recorded Saturday, Tokyo Electric Power Co. said. Another sample taken Monday found the level to be 5 million times the legal limit. The Monday samples also were found to contain radioactive cesium at 1.1 million times the legal limit.


(LA Times)


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## 9780 (Sep 14, 2006)

Oh don't worry about that seawater, they sealed the crack finally! But at the same time they dumped a lot of contaminated water in the Pacific to empty out the tanks so they could fill up the tanks with that highly radioactive water... Lesser of two evils I suppose...

If anything, what will be remembered about this disaster in 30 years is how the bureaucracy messed things up by waiting too long before they admitted they had a nuclear problem, failed to read the radiation levels properly, failed to inform other nations in time of what they were doing, were slow to ask for help, and failed to think about basic things such as covering up water treatment plant tanks with tarps to avoid taking in rain containing radioactive substances...

It's a bureaucratic disaster more than it is a nuclear disaster.

And yes, throughout all of this, you got hundreds of thousands of displaced people trying to rebuild their lives, the nuclear plant is the LEAST of their worries.

Patrix.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

+1

*This is just out and a must read for those that want a perspective....*



> *Preliminary lessons from Fukushima for future nuclear power plants*
> Posted on 25 March 2011 by Barry Brook


Lessons about nuclear energy from the Japanese quake and tsunami « BraveNewClimate


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Interesting followup post about low level radiation REDUCING cancer death....



> If you are interested in another radiation biologist’s view of the LNT theory here is mine, published in Crikey on 18 March (but actually a re-post from 2010):
> Radiation and cancer et al | Crikey
> Friday, 18 March 2011
> Radiation and cancer et al
> ...


Scenarios for nuclear electricity to 2060 – Context « BraveNewClimate


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*A worrying report on the Japanese nuclear workforce....*

*Lured to work with radiation*



> ...thousands of untrained, itinerant, temporary labourers who handle the bulk of the dangerous work at nuclear power plants here and in other countries, lured by the higher wages offered for working with radiation. Collectively, these contractors were exposed to levels of radiation about 16 times as high as the levels faced by Tokyo Electric employees last year, according to Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, which regulates the industry. These workers remain vital to efforts to contain the nuclear crisis at the Fukushima nuclear plants.
> 
> They are emblematic of Japan's two-tiered work force, with an elite class of highly paid employees at top companies and a subclass of labourers who work for less pay, have less job security and receive fewer benefits. Such labour practices have both endangered the health of these workers and undermined safety at Japan's 55 nuclear reactors, critics charge.





> Of roughly 83,000 workers at Japan's 18 commercial nuclear power plants, 88 per cent were contract workers in the year that ended in March 2010, the nuclear agency said. At the Fukushima Daiichi plant, 89 per cent of the 10,303 workers during that period were contractors.





> Some workers are hired from construction sites, and some are local farmers looking for extra income. Yet others are hired by local gangsters, according to a number of workers who did not want to give their names.
> 
> They spoke of the constant fear of getting fired, trying to hide injuries to avoid trouble for their employers, carrying skin-coloured adhesive bandages to cover up cuts and bruises.





> Last week, conversations among Fukushima Daiichi workers at a smoking area at the evacuees' centre focussed on whether to stay or go back to the plant. Some said construction jobs still seemed safer, if they could be found. “You can see a hole in the ground, but you can't see radiation,” one worker said.
> 
> Mr. Ishizawa, the only one who allowed his name to be used, said, “I might go back to a nuclear plant one day, but I'd have to be starving.”



(The Hindu)


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## Dr T (May 16, 2009)

*Some positive aspects of the catastrophe in NE Japan*

Thanks to C. Davis and Marya Nyland:


10 things to learn from Japan.

1. THE CALM
Not a single visual of chest-beating or wild grief. Sorrow itself has been elevated.

2. THE DIGNITY
Disciplined queues for water and groceries. Not a rough word or a crude gesture. 

3. THE ABILITY
The incredible architects, for instance. Buildings swayed but didn?t fall.

4. THE GRACE
People bought only what they needed for the present, so everybody could get something.

5. THE ORDER
No looting in shops. No honking and no overtaking on the roads. Just understanding. 

6. THE SACRIFICE
Fifty workers stayed back to pump sea water in the N-reactors. How will they ever be repaid?

7. THE TENDERNESS
Restaurants cut prices. An unguarded ATM is left alone. The strong cared for the weak.

8. THE TRAINING
The old and the children, everyone knew exactly what to do. And they did just that.

9. THE MEDIA
They showed magnificent restraint in the bulletins. No silly reporters. Only calm reportage.

10. THE CONSCIENCE
When the power went off in a store, people put things back on the shelves and left quietly!


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> Last week, conversations among Fukushima Daiichi workers* at a smoking area*


the irony in that is remarkable.....



> JAPAN
> About 51% of men smoke in Japan - this figure has dropped from the 1980s, but it is still very high for a developed nation.
> 
> Prevalence of smoking among women, once considered almost taboo, has risen dramatically in the last decade to nearly 10%.
> ...


WHO Western Pacific Region - Fact sheets - Smoking Statistics

and all this hand flapping about nuclear power.....


----------



## Dr T (May 16, 2009)

MacDoc said:


> the irony in that is remarkable.....


re smoking


Smoking is a personal addiction. Radiation is not.

Yeah, I meant to say addiction, not addition.


----------



## 9780 (Sep 14, 2006)

I know, I've been telling everyone I'm more worried about cigarette smoke (since I go often to bars or restaurants) than I am about the radiations...

@ Dr T: this could not be more true, those 10 things you reposted! I was astounded, I saw it and experienced it first-hand, gained new respect for the Japanese on March 11.

Add to that the fact that EVERYONE is participating in saving power in order to avoid blackouts. I've never seen Tokyo be so.. dark.. at night, Shinjuku, known for its neon lights, has not even half the brightness it usually does. Starbucks shuts off half the lights, subway trains and stations are darker than usual, people using less lights and heating/AC, outdoor restaurant signs shut off, etc.

And in Canada we need an "Earth Hour" every year just to try to save power, here, people are asked to save power and everyone does it without a second thought. Amazing.


----------



## 9780 (Sep 14, 2006)

Dr T said:


> re smoking
> 
> 
> Smoking is a personal addition. Radiation is not.


It's not when other people are around... Few things I hate more than going out to enjoy some delicious food, or beer, and/or others' company, when someone lights up 7 cigarettes in 45 minutes and stinks up the whole place, makes my lungs feel like a volcano, and leaves me stinking (skin, hair, clothes) until I take a bath/shower and wash the clothes in question.

Makes me sick (both as in "disgust" and as in actual physical effects of me falling sick and feeling bad for a few days or weeks after), way more than the radiation fallout in Tokyo ever will :lmao:

EDIT ... and now I'm hoping this won't devolve into a smoking ban debate.....


----------



## Dr T (May 16, 2009)

patrix;1082772 ... Few things I hate more than going out to enjoy some delicious food said:


> I doubt that there are any smokers on this list, and if there are any, can they Please start another thread to debate/justify/rationalize/defend their addiction! Or just step outside past the rest of us and have a few puffs.
> 
> But my point of mentioning the evil weed is that it is a very local level of pollution - whereas radiation spreads worldwide very rapidly... So radiation is something we as humans all together should fret about.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

While this is falling off the media radar - ( thankfully given the junk info circulated )

It should stay top of mind so as it has impact on the climate

Here is latest



> Fukushima rated at INES Level 7 – what does this mean?
> 
> Posted on 12 April 2011 by Barry Brook
> Hot in the news is that the Fukushima Nuclear crisis has been upgraded from INES 5 to INES 7. Note that this is not due to some sudden escalation of events today (aftershocks etc.), but rather it is based on an assessment of the cumulative magnitude of the events that have occurred at the site over the past month (my most recent update on that is here).
> ...


continues....good read

Fukushima rated at INES Level 7 – what does this mean? « BraveNewClimate

••••



> But my point of mentioning the evil weed is that it is a very local level of pollution - whereas radiation spreads worldwide very rapidly... *So radiation is something we as humans all together should fret about*.


and this is very wrong which you would know if you read the science.....we live and have evolved in a sea of radiation and it's something people need to understand.
Read the information at the links above particularly from radiation biologists.

ALL technology carries risk and needs careful management. Learn about the reality not the nonsense about "world wide radiation".....

and don't eat bananas if you really are a tin hat about it....

http://xkcd.com/radiation/


----------



## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

To follow up on MDs post. They are now considering creating Level 8 as it is becoming obvious that this is, or will become, somewhat more serious than Chernobyl. 

What I find most interesting is how acceptable levels of radiation in food and water are quietly raised as current acceptable levels are exceeded. Mainly in Japan but to a lesser extent, stateside as well.


----------



## KC4 (Feb 2, 2009)

eMacMan said:


> T
> What I find most interesting is how acceptable levels of radiation in food and water are quietly raised as current acceptable levels are exceeded. Mainly in Japan but to a lesser extent, stateside as well.


Reminds me of the frog in a pot scenario.


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## 9780 (Sep 14, 2006)

eMacMan said:


> What I find most interesting is how acceptable levels of radiation in food and water are quietly raised as current acceptable levels are exceeded. Mainly in Japan but to a lesser extent, stateside as well.


I don't know what the levels were before the disaster, but I didn't see them raisin the levels since we heard about levels. Though they keep calling them "provisional levels" so I've been wondering what the levels were before.

From what I can understand though, the levels are based on the expectation that things will return back to normal, not with the expectation of ingesting the contaminated food and water for the next 50 years.

I don't think anybody expected this to still be going after a month.

Regardless, at least with regards to levels of radiation and contaminated water in Tokyo, things are improving from what I can see. Do you have any data saying that things are getting worse and the "safe limits" keep being increased without our knowledge???


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

patrix said:


> I don't think anybody expected this to still be going after a month.


Even after the immediate nuclear emergency has been dealt with, the missing generating capacity has to be replaced. This will likely take years, not months.

Japan already has an extremely high public debt which will make rebuilding harder, and demographics aren't working in their favour either.

In the long run, this will likely knock the Japanese economy down a peg or two.

Without reliable power, factories will start to move production capacity overseas. This has already been happening for years, the power issues will only serve to speed the process. Once production moves, it is unlikely to come back.

Unlike Canada, Japan doesn't have a whole lot of natural resources to fall back on as manufacturing jobs move overseas...


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## 9780 (Sep 14, 2006)

So, the radiation levels in Tokyo and many other cities are back to pre-disaster levels. IE, this incident being a "level 7" or even level 8 doesn't mean we're all going to die in Japan LOL.

On the other hand, some stores mistakenly sold contaminated leaf products, after some manager didn't check properly to make sure whether they came from banned areas or not. 

Like I said already, this is turning into a bureaucratic disaster more than anything else. 

Patrix.


----------



## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

Japan's Nuclear engineers may deserve much credit, but by the sounds of it TEPCOs management sure doesn't:


> Tepco has been afflicted by moral hazard behind the scenes. The company has a shoddy history of cover-ups and sloppy safety standards. In 2002, it was found to have routinely lied about safety data relating to cracks in its reactors. Now we know it located back-up generators at Fukushima in the basement, below the level of what turned out to be a wholly inadequate sea defence wall. There are also suggestions – denied by the company – that it delayed cooling the reactors with sea water to avoid scrapping billions of yen worth of assets.
> 
> One explanation for Tepco’s track record is the amakudari (descend from heaven) system by which civil servants drop into cushy jobs in the industries they once regulated. Toru Ishida, a former energy official with the ministry that regulates nuclear power, landed a senior position advising Tepco this year. Masataka Shimuzu, the president of Tepco who went awol after the Fukushima plant started spewing out radiation last month, is the vice-president of Keidanren, a sign of the power company’s huge clout.


source: FT.com / Comment / Op-Ed Columnists - Tepco makes Lehman seem a mere bagatelle


----------



## 9780 (Sep 14, 2006)

Happy to see that for the last few days, radioactive particles levels in Tokyo 's tap water are back to "undetectable". Means there's surely some, but on the same level as pre disaster. 

Let's see what the levels are after today's rain though, they always went up in the last weeks after rain,though not as dramatically as the first rain after the disaster.

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

patrix said:


> Happy to see that for the last few days, radioactive particles levels in Tokyo 's tap water are back to "undetectable". Means there's surely some, but on the same level as pre disaster.
> 
> Let's see what the levels are after today's rain though, they always went up in the last weeks after rain,though not as dramatically as the first rain after the disaster.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk


Since there are at least three and possibly four reactor cores in various stages of melting down and they expect to take another year or so to get things under control, I would expect to have to keep a very close eye on things for some time to come.

On this side of the pond EPA and EC have decided there is no longer any need to routinely monitor radioactivity so if there is a problem we won't hear about until a month or three after the danger has passed.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Melting down????
He's not worried about coal but damn those melting reactors half a world away are a clear and present danger.....

pardon my laughter.

careful of those bananas

http://xkcd.com/radiation/

and 

Natural Radiation: High Background Radiation Areas (HBRAs) of Ramsar, Iran

snip



> The effective dose equivalents in very high background radiation areas (VHBRAs) of Ramsar in particular in Talesh Mahalleh*, are a few times higher than the ICRP-recommended radiation dose limits for radiation workers*.


and no they are NOT dying off.....in fact....



> The preliminary results of cytogenetical, immunological and hematological studies on the residents of high background radiation areas of Ramsar have been previously reported (Mortazavi et al. 2001, Ghiassi-Nejad et al. 2002 and Mortazavi et al. in press), suggesting that exposure to high levels of natural background radiation can induce radioadaptive response in human cells. Lymphocytes of Ramsar residents when subjected to 1.5 Gy of gamma rays showed fewer induced chromosome aberrations compared to residents in a nearby control area whose lymphocytes were subjected to the same radiation dose. Despite the fact that in in vitro experiments lymphocytes of some individuals show a synergistic effect after pretreatment with a low dose(Mortazavi et al. 2000), none of the residents of high background radiation areas showed such a response.


We evolved and every day are bathed in an ocean of radiation.....a gamma ray started out 10 billion years ago in the heart of a supernova could trigger a cancer in you tomorrow....

DO however mind that bus stepping off the curb...and careful of the mules.....there ARE dangers out there,,,,,radiation from nuclear power plants is one of the extremely low ones...approaching nil.


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## 9780 (Sep 14, 2006)

I doubt at this point that it's gonna get worse, unless another seismic/tidal event of the same scale happens again the same area, not too likely. Heck the plants were built in an area that had seen no major quakes for 100 years!

Otherwise, we'll see how long of takes to cool them down, but right now the estimates are iirc 3 months to stabilize and 6-9 months to fully cool down and shutdown.

Pretty sure the melting of the cores is under control, temperatures aren't going up like in the first 2 weeks. The issues really are disposal of the water that was used to hastily cool down, and enabling stable cooling functions as well as stop any remaining leakage.

The REAL problems are bureaucratic in nature. Lets just list a few things I read over the past week that are way worse than the radiation in Tokyo: 

- too many winter-related items were donated (blankets, gas heaters) and they're sitting unused, taking space in school gyms. Authorities aren't sure what to do with them

- money donations from the public and other countries have yet to reach anyone affected by the disasters, because the govt isn't sure how to distribute it

- the govt and tepco are trying to figure out how to compensate the people.. tepco higher ups obviously don't want to lose their bonuses... meanwhile the govt wants to increase taxes to pay for it all (pay for recovery? Or oay for tepco's compensations? Not clear)

- since japan still uses asbestos in construction, guess what harmful, carcinogenic particles are being released in the air while rubble is being cleared from the tsunami-hit areas?

That's just the four that come to mind right away.....

Sent from my SH-03C


----------



## 9780 (Sep 14, 2006)

So it turns out. It was a full meltdown (in reactor #1) after all, and it occured within 16 hours of the quake - in fact the reactor got damaged before the tsunami, too.

I can now proudly say I survived a meltdown ahaha

hopefully we'll get some data about the other reactors soon...

PS MacDoc, been thinking for the last few weeks, and all that stuff about radiation exposure is all nice and reassuring, but it conveniently sidesteps completely the main issue going on in a crisis like this - not the radiation exposure, but rather the problem is ingesting/breathing in some radioactive particles. I'm sure they do a lot more damage when they're stored inside your bone marrow or thyroid gland than they do when they're bombarding your skin with radiation... I still weighed the risks and stayed, glad I wasn't in Tokyo when the levels in drinking water exceeded safe levels for babies, but yeah, those charts and safe does are only part of the story.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Experts: "Massive Problem" At Fukushima As TEPCO Tries To Downplay Extent Of Contamination*



> If we're going to have nuclear energy, it needs to be a government utility, run by people whose main concern is safety - lying and covering-up to maintain corporate profits. Every step of the way, when confronted with a potential problem, TEPCO took the cheapest, most profitable path instead of worrying about long-term risk, just as we've seen so many companies do.






+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.






(Crooks & Liars)


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Nope. What we need is private reactors with government inspection. Governments inspecting their own reactors is also disastrous.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Macfury said:


> Nope. What we need is private reactors with government inspection. Governments inspecting their own reactors is also disastrous.


Nope. Past time to switch to Thorium Reactors. Who cares if they don't breed Plutonium. Because a small energy input is required to maintain the chain reaction the chance of accidental meltdown is pretty much nil. The spent fuel remains dangerous for about 100 years rather than hundreds of thousands of years. 

Time to scrap the more conventional reactors entirely.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*This just in...*

*Germany to shut down nuclear plants by 2022*



> Germany's coalition government decided early Monday to shut down all of the country's nuclear power plants by 2022, a policy change prompted by Japan's nuclear disaster, the environment minister said.





> Chancellor Angela Merkel in 2010 had pushed through measures to extend the lifespan of the country's 17 reactors with the last one scheduled to go offline in 2036, but she reversed her policy in the wake of the disaster.
> 
> Germany, Europe's biggest economy, stands alone among the world's major industrialized nations in its determination to gradually replace nuclear power with renewable energy sources.


(CBC News - another report at Huffington Post Canada)


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

I would say a good indicator as to the safety of the latest generation of nuclear reactors, is in how willing the manufacturer/designers are to accept full liability, should one fail. Also should include responsibility for the safe disposal and storage of spent fuel. In the past GE and others have insisted on a carte blanche pre-pardon at the national level before building power plants. I would be very surprised if that has changed.


----------



## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Not new and not a really glitzy site and the next page link at the bottom of some pages can be hard to find, but well worth a visit. 

KIDDofSPEED - GHOST TOWN - Chernobyl Pictures - Kidofspeed - Elena

Includes two photo essays on Chernobyl many years after the melt down. Especially relevant now that Plutonium has been confirmed in soil samples and the evacuation zone around Fukishima has been expanded yet again.


----------



## jef (Dec 9, 2007)

eMacMan said:


> Not new and not a really glitzy site and the next page link at the bottom of some pages can be hard to find, but well worth a visit.
> 
> KIDDofSPEED - GHOST TOWN - Chernobyl Pictures - Kidofspeed - Elena
> 
> Includes two photo essays on Chernobyl many years after the melt down. Especially relevant now that Plutonium has been confirmed in soil samples and the evacuation zone around Fukishima has been expanded yet again.


The Elana on a motorcycle in Chernobyl article is likely fake - apparently a sanctioned bus tour she was on gave her the idea but the rest is BS - motorcycle travel and traveling alone in the area is forbidden. The stories about the fake story are easily googled..


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*And Then There Were Three: Three Full Meltdowns Confirmed At Fukushima*



> Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant experienced full meltdowns at three reactors in the wake of an earthquake and tsunami in March, the country's Nuclear Emergency Response Headquarters said Monday.


(Crooks & Liars)


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Worst-Case Scenario: Not Just A Meltdown, But A "Melt-Through"*



> It's not only possible, it seems likely -- considering that the radiation released from the site is increasing, not decreasing:
> 
> _Molten nuclear fuel in three reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi power plant is likely to have burned through pressure vessels, not just the cores, Japan has said in a report in which it also acknowledges it was unprepared for an accident of the severity of Fukushima.
> 
> It is the first time Japanese authorities have admitted the possibility that the fuel suffered "melt-through" – a more serious scenario than a core meltdown._​


(More at Crooks & Liars)


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Seems to me the title of this thread is just wrong. It should be deserve "no" credit.


----------



## 9780 (Sep 14, 2006)

SINC said:


> Seems to me the title of this thread is just wrong. It should be deserve "no" credit.


oh the engineers do deserve credit.. the decision-makers tptptptp - now that's another story entirely...


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*...and as usual, the true picture of a disaster comes with time...*

*Why the Fukushima disaster is worse than Chernobyl*





> Some scientists say Fukushima is worse than the 1986 Chernobyl accident, with which it shares a maximum level-7 rating on the sliding scale of nuclear disasters. One of the most prominent of them is Dr Helen Caldicott, an Australian physician and long time anti-nuclear activist who warns of "horrors to come" in Fukushima.





> Slowly, steadily, and often well behind the curve, the government has worsened its prognosis of the disaster. Last Friday, scientists affiliated with the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said the plant had released 15,000 terabecquerels of cancer-causing Cesium, equivalent to about 168 times the 1945 atomic bombing of Hiroshima, the event that ushered in the nuclear age. (Professor Busby says the release is at least 72,000 times worse than Hiroshima).





> ...a consistent pattern of official lying, foot-dragging and concealment. Last week, officials finally admitted something long argued by its critics: that thousands of people with homes near the crippled nuclear plant may not be able to return for a generation or more. "We can't rule out the possibility that there will be some areas where it will be hard for residents to return to their homes for a long time," said Yukio Edano, the government's top government spokesman. "We are very sorry."
> 
> Last Friday, hundreds of former residents from Futaba and Okuma, the towns nearest the plant, were allowed to visit their homes – perhaps for the last time – to pick up belongings. Wearing masks and radiation suits, they drove through the 20km contaminated zone around the plant, where hundreds of animals have died and rotted in the sun, to find kitchens and living rooms partly reclaimed by nature.





> ...many experts warn that the crisis is just beginning. Professor Tim Mousseau, a biological scientist who has spent more than a decade researching the genetic impact of radiation around Chernobyl, says he worries that many people in Fukushima are "burying their heads in the sand." His Chernobyl research concluded that biodiversity and the numbers of insects and spiders had shrunk inside the irradiated zone, and the bird population showed evidence of genetic defects, including smaller brain sizes.


(Independent UK)


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*TEPCO Trying to Prevent Chain Reaction At Fukushima. Expert: "Nobody Is Sure About The Location Of The Melted Fuel"
*


> If you're going to use nuclear energy, it's a very, very bad idea to rely on for-profit companies who have every incentive to cut corners and cover up. Can anyone honestly say they still believe anything TEPCO says? Not a great position for Japan to be in:
> 
> Tokyo Electric Power Co. injected boric acid into a reactor at its crippled Fukushima nuclear plant to prevent an accidental chain reaction known as re-criticality after temperatures rose in the past week.
> (....)
> “It was too early to say the plant is safe in December. They declared cold shutdown even though nobody is sure about the location of melted fuel,” Tetsuo Ito, the head of the Atomic Energy Research Institute at Kinki University in western Japan. “A similar incident will probably occur again.”​


(Crooks & Liars)


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*A year later... photoessay of Japan's "nuclear refugees" via *Boston.com:



Their temporary housing sure puts post-Katrina FEMA trailers to shame, hey?


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Fukushima No. 2 Reactor Has "10 Times The Fatal Dose" of Radiation. Meanwhile, Original Contamination Data Was Deleted*



> One of Japan's crippled nuclear reactors still has fatally high radiation levels and hardly any water to cool it, according to an internal examination Tuesday that renews doubts about the plant's stability.





> The probe also found the containment vessel — a beaker-shaped container enclosing the core — had cooling water up to only 60 centimeters (2 feet) from the bottom, far below the 10 meters (yards) estimated when the government declared the plant stable in December.





> The Fukushima Prefectural Government revealed on March 21 that it deleted five days of early radiation dispersion data almost entirely unread in the wake of the meltdowns at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant.
> 
> The data from the System for Prediction of Environmental Emergency Dose Information (SPEEDI) -- intended to predict the spread of radioactive contamination, information vital for issuing evacuation advisories -- was emailed to the prefectural government by the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology


(Crooks & Liars)


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Still fear mongering CM??
It's like saying there is a fatal dose of RCHOP in the refrigerator.

There are a lot more risks out there that actually do kill people - one of them being Japan needing to burn more coal which kills 100s of thousands annually world wide.

Spend your indignity on the real killer - both of people and the bio-sphere



> POLLUTION DEATHS FROM FOSSIL FUEL-BASED POWER PLANTS
> 
> 1. Global death toll from the pollution from fossil fuel burning-based electricity generation. It is estimated that 0.3 million people die annually world-wide from societally-imposed, fossil fuel-based electricity generation pollutants (carbon monoxide, sulphur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, particulates, volatile organics and heavy metals, notably mercury) and 170,000 people die annually world-wide from coal burning-based electricity generation (see: Pollutants from coal-based electricity generation kill 170,000 people annually | Green Blog )


POLLUTION DEATHS FROM FOSSIL FUEL-BASED POWER PLANTS - Yarra Valley Climate Action Group

why are you not reporting that instead of nonsense like fatal dose inside a nuclear reactor.....if you jumped into the open pool at McMaster's reactor you'd get an fatal dose and almost any chemical factory you care to name has fatal substances.

Maybe do some reading before you buy the same line the fossil fuel interests would like you to swallow

Furious About Fossil Fuel Funded Fukushima Frenzy | Atomic Insights

there are lots of links on the site for your additional information as there is here on the economics of nuclear power.

Sustainable Nuclear « BraveNewClimate

Dr. Brook is a smart scientist with NO stake in things nuclear - take the time to read the analysis and insights instead of buying into the fear mongering that flat out is without basis.
Barry is very accessible and happy to answer questions
[email protected]

In fact the analysis has shown that the fear mongering has done far more harm than any nuclear accident. We live in a radiated universe - you know that.
There are whole cities with far higher background radiation than anything released that persists.



> People in some areas of Ramsar, a city in northern Iran, receive an annual radiation absorbed dose from background radiation that is up to 260 mSv y-1, substantially higher than the 20 mSv y-1 that is permitted for radiation workers


Very High Background Radiation Areas of Ramsar, Iran: Prelim... : Health Physics

Were you aware the co-founder of Greenpeace is a nuclear advocate?? and he's a scientist as well.

Co-Founder of Greenpeace Envisions a Nuclear Future

We agree on many things you and I but not on this one.....read the science, not the polemic nonsense that the fossil interests would love you to buy into.

We ARE cooking the planet and nuclear is the only heavy lift technology that can reduce the use of coal.
Nuclear power is not going away and we need more of it.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

WHOA, Nellie! Time to take a big ol' chill pill, MD. "Fear mongering" - Really?

My issues with the Fukushima story are mostly these:
- government and/or nuclear operator playing down the contamination released into the environment;
- the fact that with little / no cooling going on, there may be a potential for another meltdown;

You are correct that I am not a fan of current-tech nuclear power. But I would not be opposed to more nuclear plants if they were of the emerging technology flavour (Thorium, fast-neutron, etc.) that had a far greater safety margin.

I'm not so naive to believe that the West could ever abandon its insatiable thirst for energy to make reduction / efficiency efforts possible.

The growing push to alternative energy sources and the super-important tandem issue of new battery technology will eventually help to supplant much of the energy needs most people have.

Now - head out to the back patio, crack another Melbourne Bitter, and contemplate the universe for a bit. Somebody needs a time-out...


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Anybody catch any coverage in Canadian (or U.S.) media about Reactor #4?

*Foreign Press Warns Of Potential Catastrophe At Fukushima No. 4 Reactor*



> The foreign press is warning of the potential for a major catastrophe for the northern hemisphere from the remaining fuel pools at Fukushima - but the American media is strangely silent. Their focus is on Reactor 4, which is open to the elements and at high risk of disaster in the event of another major earthquake:





> More than a year after a devastating earthquake and tsunami triggered a massive nuclear disaster, experts are warning that Japan isn't out of the woods yet and the worst nuclear storm the world has ever seen could be just one earthquake away from reality.
> 
> The troubled Reactor 4 at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant is at the centre of this potential catastrophe.
> 
> ...


(Crooks & Liars)


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## 9780 (Sep 14, 2006)

I'm guessing the news are silent because there is nothing happening. 

Although the chances are higher of having a strong earthquake there so there is a risk, there could be a potential disaster anywhere at any time making any nuclear plant explode! I don't quite see any news outlet reporting on those either.... 

Ps: there have been multiple magnitude 6-7 quakes in that area since the big one last year, I didn't see any major disaster come from it yet... 


Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*TEPCO subcontractor tried to underreport workers' radiation exposure*



> An executive of a Tokyo Electric Power Co. subcontractor forced its nine workers at the crisis-hit Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant to cover their radiation monitoring meters with lead-made plates, the company said Saturday.
> 
> The executive is believed to have tried to underreport radiation exposure, prompting the Health, Labor and Welfare Ministry to launch an investigation on suspicion of violating the industrial safety and health law


(Kyodo)


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Yes Mark it was mishandled but publishing blatant nonsense about radiation danger and northern hemisphere disaster is just plain foolish.

Coal is far and away more dangerous both in the near term and the long term yet you are silent on it.

Coal Combustion - ORNL Review Vol. 26, No. 3&4, 1993

No one builds reactors like the Japanese ones anymore and the silence in the press is simply because it's a non-event despite your hype.



> How does the amount of nuclear material released by coal combustion compare to the amount consumed as fuel by the U.S. nuclear power industry?
> According to 1982 figures, 111 American nuclear plants consumed about 540 tons of nuclear fuel, generating almost 1.1 x 10E12 kWh of electricity.
> * During the same year, about 801 tons of uranium alone were released from American coal-fired plants. Add 1971 tons of thorium, and the release of nuclear components from coal combustion far exceeds the entire U.S. consumption of nuclear fuels. The same conclusion applies for worldwide nuclear fuel and coal combustion*.


That's released into the atmosphere Mark - not contained in reactors.....how much damage has been done in shutting down those nuclear facilities in Japan and increasing the fossil fuel use......you are strangely silent on that. 




> UPDATED: Fossil Fuel Imports, Use Soar as Japan's Nuclear Fleet ...
> thebreakthrough.org/blog/.../fossil_fuel_imports_use_soar_a.shtml14 Feb 2012 – The Fukushima disaster raised big questions about how Japan will meet ... TEPCO's data shows consumption rising, with coal increasing 5.3%, ...





> Germany, Japan Increase Coal Burning Post Fukushima | Planetizen
> www.planetizen.com/node/5634624 Apr 2012 – Consequently, both nations have seen a dramatic increase in coal burning, ... " Japan's nuclear power used to generate almost one third of the ...





> Nuclear Plants in Germany Sit Idle as Coal use Grows by 13.5%
> oilprice.com/.../Coal/Nuclear-Plants-in-Germany-Sit-Idle-as-Coal-use...15 May 2012 – In Germany Coal is set to increase by 13.5% even.


you're not helping with the fear mongering.



> CO2 Emissions Rise Even as Energy Use Falls Sharply
> 
> Second, Japan's total primary energy supply has also declined precipitously since the earthquake. Total energy supply in November 2011 was 9.8 percent lower than in November 2010, and total supply over the period April to November 2011 was down 6.7 percent on the same period in 2010**. This decrease in energy supply and use is largely driven by four factors: physical damage caused by the quake to the nation's electricity system and other energy supply infrastructure (e.g. fuel refineries etc.); the decision to idle Japan's undamaged nuclear reactors; fairly extensive damage to Japanese industry caused by the earthquake and tsunami, which reduced industrial activity and economic output; and conservation efforts launched by the Japanese government to relieve stress on the damaged electricity system, particularly in the months of peak summer demand following the quake.
> 
> Despite the steep drop in energy consumption, Japan's heightened dependence on fossil fuels and sharply increase carbon intensity drove Japan's CO2 emissions up 3.8 percent in November 2011 relative to the same month the year-prior.* Average CO2 emissions over the 8-month period April to November 2011 were up 0.4 percent on the same period in 2010, even as average energy use during this period was far lower*.


where is your outrage???? ....strangely silent.....

Your approach is misguided in the extreme.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

David - it's not my purpose in life to search out articles on CO2 emissions and post them here. You're being somewhat unfair. I don't like CO2 emissions from coal or other fossil fuel sources either. I'm in favour of nuclear if its in the development of newer technology plants that don't present the same radiation risks. I'm also posting in a thread relevant to nuclear power and the situation that occurred in Japan. I'm not "strangely silent", and I'm frankly surprised at the tone you're taking with me.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Fukushima Plant Leaking Radiation Directly Into Ocean For Two Years*





> Shunichi Tanaka, the head of the Nuclear Regulation Authority in Japan, and the country’s chief nuclear regulator announced on Wednesday, that the nuclear power plant at Fukushima, has been leaking contaminated water into the ocean for the two years since the accident that saw three of the plants six reactors suffer a meltdown.
> 
> The problem stems from the fact that ground water is leaking into the basement of the damaged reactors, and becoming contaminated, and whilst that water is being pumped out and stored in huge tanks on site, the inflow has not yet been stopped, meaning that ever more ground water enters the basement and becomes contaminated.
> 
> Tanaka explains that neither his staff, nor those working for the plant’s operator have discovered where the leaks are coming from, and therefore have not been able to stop them.





> adiation levels of the water leaving the Fukushima, Japan, nuclear power plane and flowing into the Pacific Ocean have risen by roughly 9,000 per cent. Turns out, that's probably putting a good face on it. By official measurement, the water coming out of Fukushima is currently 90,000 times more radioactive than officially "safe" drinking water.





> In an effort to prevent the water from reaching the ocean, TEPCO is building what amounts to a huge, underground dike -- "a deeply sunken coastal containment wall." The NRA is calling on TEPCO to finish the project before its scheduled 2015 completion date.


(Crooks & Liars)


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

*I've heard the screams of the Vegetables*

Been around on the alternative media for a long time, but for those who refuse to believe unless the Lamestream carries it. Here you go:

Deformed Vegetables, Fruit Reportedly Pop Up Around Japan Nuclear Plant


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*David Suzuki On Fukushima:*
_"If The Fourth Plant Goes, Under An Earthquake, And Those Rods Are Exposed, It's Bye Bye Japan And Everybody On The West Coast Of North America Should Evacuate."_​'


> The "Nature of Things" host made the comments in a talk posted to YouTube after he joined Dr. David Schindler for "Letting in the Light," a symposium on water ecology held at the University of Alberta on Oct. 30 and 31.
> 
> An excerpt of the talk shows Suzuki outlining a frightening scenario that would result from the destruction of the nuclear plant.
> 
> ...


(Minds and HuffingtonPost)
*Related:* BBC News - Fukushima nuclear plant set for risky operation


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I agree. This scenario _IS _the most frightening thing David Suzuki can imagine. While the situation is serious, this sort of hyperbole does not serve his cause well. He has become the poster child for a man out of his depth. First he embarrassed himself on Australian television when it became clear he didn't understand the basic terminology used to discuss climate science and now this.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Suzuki has proven time and again that he has no idea what he is talking about.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*What The Hell Is Happening At Fukushima Reactor 3?*



> We know that TEPCO was in the dangerous process of removing fuel rods from the No. 4 reactor, but since Japan is on the verge of passing a state secrets law that would make it a serious offense to leak information about Fukushima or for journalists to try to get that information, it's just highly unlikely that anyone will tell us if there's another nuclear disaster. We do know that steam has been observed coming from the Reactor 3 building three times this week, and we know what it's been associated with in the past -- which ain't much, but it's all we have...





> *Is Reactor 3 melting down now?* We have no official way of knowing. Blogger Susanne Posel is assuming it as reality:
> 
> _TEPCO are reporting that “radioactive steam has suddenly begun emanating from previously exploded nuclear reactor building #3 at the Fukushima disaster site in Japan.”
> 
> ...


(Crooks & Liars)


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*...and how did we miss this story?*

*USS Ronald Reagan Crew Members Sick With Cancer Three Years After Fukushima Contamination*

_Nearly three years after the destruction of Japan’s Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, at least 70 U.S. Navy sailors who participated in relief efforts after the accident have been suffering from radiation sickness and even cancer as the crew of the USS Ronald Reagan was exposed to fallout.

“I was standing on the flight deck, and we felt this warm gust of air, and, suddenly, it was snowing,” sailor Lindsay Cooper told the New York Post in an interview published Monday. The metallic-tasting snow was caused by the freezing Pacific air that mixed with the radioactive fallout from the Fukushima power plant that was wrecked in the March 2011 earthquake and tsunami.

Fukushima was the world's worst nuclear disaster since the meltdown of the Chernobyl nuclear reactor in Ukraine in 1986. Japanese utility crews are still struggling to contain radioactive water leaking from the plant into the Pacific Ocean. It has been estimated that some 300 tons of toxic water enter the ocean each day.

“We joked about it: ‘Hey, it’s radioactive snow!’ ” Cooper said. “I took pictures and video.”_









A counter-measure washdown is conducted on the aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan (CVN 76) to decontaminate the flight deck while the ship is operating off the coast of Japan providing humanitarian assistance in support of Operation Tomodachi, March 23, 2011. Sailors scrubbed the external surfaces on the flight deck and island superstructure to remove potential radiation contamination.​

(International Business Times also FoxNews, NavyTimes but curiously, little other mainstream coverage....)


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Fukushima Reactor Radiation Levels Soaring Unexpectedly*

The radiation levels inside Japan’s damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear reactor No. 2 have soared in recent weeks, reaching a maximum of 530 sieverts per hour, a number experts have called “unimaginable”.

Radiation is now by far the highest it has been since the reactor was struck by a tsunami in March 2011 – and scientists are struggling to explain what’s going on.

The previous maximum radiation level recorded in the reactor was 73 sieverts per hour, a reading taken not long after the meltdown almost six years ago. The levels are now more than seven times that amount.

Exactly what’s causing the levels to creep upwards again is currently stumping the Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco). But the good news is that they say the radiation is safely contained within the reactor, so there’s no risk to the greater population.​
(via [ScienceAlert URL="http://www.cryptogon.com/?p=50365"]Cryptogon[/URL])


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Fukushima’s Radioactive Waste Is Leaking From an Unexpected Source*










A new and unexpected source of radioactive material left over from the 2011 Fukushima nuclear disaster has been found up to 60 miles away along coastlines near the beleaguered plant. The discovery shows that damaged nuclear reactors are capable of spreading radiation far from the meltdown site, and in some surprising ways.

New research published this week in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences shows that radioactive cesium from the Fukushima nuclear power plant is collecting in the sands and groundwater along a 60-mile (100-km) stretch of coastline near the facility. Cesium-137 is a radioactive isotope of cesium (a soft, silvery-gold metal) that’s formed by nuclear fission and potentially fatal to humans when exposed to high concentrations. 

The scientists who led the study, Virginie Sanial of Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution and Seiya Nagao of Kanazawa University, say the levels of radiation “are not of primary concern” to public health, but that this new and unanticipated source “should be taken into account in the management of coastal areas where nuclear power plants are situated.”

(Gizmodo)​


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*First reactor fuel rods removed from crippled Fukushima power plant*










Workers at Japan's crippled Fukushima nuclear power plant have finally begun to remove nuclear fuel from one of its damaged reactors, more than eight years after the twin disasters of an earthquake and tsunami.

The facility's owner, Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO), is using a robotic crane to carefully lift 566 used and unused fuel rod bundles from a storage pool in the No. 3 reactor building. Radiation levels remain so high, however, that the humans working the buttons must stay at least a half-kilometre away.

The work, which all takes place under water, will see the rods placed inside storage cases before their eventual removal, and is expected to take at least two years.

t is just the initial step in a very lengthy plan to decommission the three reactors that melted down when sea water flooded the site on March 11, 2011, knocking out emergency power and causing their cores to overheat.

The full cleanup is expected to take another 40 years.

(CBC)​


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