# CRTC approves Al-Jazeera for broadcast in Canada



## MrVermin (Jul 26, 2002)

Come on... What is with the CRTC???  

First they pull the license of a Quebec radio station CHOI for comments made by a trash mouth shock jock on air, then they deny a license for Italian broadcaster RAI to broadcast in Canada and at the same time they give a license to Arab broadcaster Al-Jazeera...









How can they deem what one radio station host says on the air in a Quebec market area to be offensive on one hand while allowing a TV station which regularly shows tapes of Al Qaeda preaching death to westerners (along with the beheadings) to broadcast nationally on the other. 

Have I missed something or has the CRTC just come down with collective insanity.....

I am not one to say that the Canadian government should censor ar restrict what we as Canadians can watch or listen to, hell I even do the "Grey Market" thing in order to get Sci-Fi and TechTV..  

The problem is that with today’s pervasive electronic providers, it is possible for ANY Canadian household to receive the signal of ANY satellite broadcast from almost any country that they want. Then there are those stations, both Radio and TV that are rebroadcast over the Internet. This in and of itself makes the CRTC and the regulations that they hold on to obsolete.

The CRTC was originally put in place to help to protect Canadian fledgling broadcasters from larger American broadcasters close to the Canada/US border. Regulations brought in by the CRTC included the Canadian Content rule that said you had to have a certain percentage of Canadian content aired between 6am and midnight, with a smaller percentage after midnight. This let us to shows like "The Beachcombers" and "The Trouble With Tracey". 

The CTRC also put in place the regulation that for every US network a Cable provider offered, they had to offer TWO Canadian channels to their subscribers... This is why we got channels like "The Woman’s Channel", "Bravo", "Showcase" and why the CBC is still on the air...

The issue with Al Jazeera is not that it was allowed access to the Canadian market, it is how it was allowed to be broadcast, as well as who was not allowed to broadcast at the same time and why.

Al Jazeera was allowed to be broadcast only if the cable companies agreed to use the 7 second time delay censor button on them. This means that Censorship of Al Jazeera rests with Rogers and Shaw ...et al... and not with the CRT or the Canadian Government. This is a dangerous president to set and one that the cable companies may not be willing to comply with. The cable companies MUSThave someone (who speaks Arabic) on the button 24hours a day 365days a year ready to use it. They must also tape Al Jazeera 24hours a day 365days a year so that if ANYONE complains, the CRTC can review what happened (like the guy falling asleep at or on the button).

All this for a station that reportedly is aimed at a demographic of about 500,000 people in Canada. (apparently according to statistics, about 700,000 people in Canada have access to "Grey Market" Satellite and Fox News, but they were denied by the CRTC, more on that later)

Ok, it is now later.... At the same time as the CRTC allowed Al Jazeera broadcasting rights, they denied RAI those same rights. WHY?

Well, it appears that Corus (who owns Telelatino, is planning a 24hour all Italian channel for Cable later this year and RAI would interfere with these plans. Remember one of those CRTC regulations is "Overlapping of Programming". This means that if there are two channels with dedicated programming, only one of them will get a CRTC license, the other... well ...

This flies in the face of the Italian community across Canada and has even riled the feathers of some Liberal MP's, who have said that they will try to pressure the CRTC into allowing RAI broadcasting rights in Canada. Now I do not like the Grits (in fact I hate them), but this is one thing that I am rooting for them to do...

Then there is the Fox News issue.... The CRTC will not allow them a license to broadcast in Canada, we should be glad that we get CNN and be done with it... The CRTC has to protect Canada from the Conservative views expressed by those Radical Fox journalists.... 

OK, enough of this, that is why I got "Grey Market", I don't want to be beholden to an antiquated white elephant clutching on to the abyss and trying to prevent its own demise. I can vote for what I want to watch with my own THUMB


And another thing...

I wonder if Al-Jazeera will be forced to conform to the CRTC’s Canadian content regulations when broadcasting in Canada. If they do, does this mean that they will have to show a certain percentage of Canadian beheadings per hour between 6am and midnight, with a higher percentage of American beheadings after midnight?

MrVermin


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

The powers given to the CRTC by the Liberals and the way they abuse that power is just one more reason Martin and his gang of thieves should have been gone last month.

I would still like to be able to watch American commercials during sporting events and not see Canadian content "injected" into their commercial breaks.  

Cheers


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

Well said.

I for one am appalled at the decision the CRTC made regarding Al-Jazeera. The CRTC should get their head out of their A** and quit trying to be so politically correct.

That is one of the main problems in this country - politically correctness. Canadians are too afraid to say anything to anyone because we're afraid we'll offend someone. So out comes the politically correctness.

The sad part is we will be forced to receive and pay for this channel in our cable/satellite packages.

I say take the power away from the CRTC. Enough of the Canadian content rule (for both TV & Radio). Canadians in general like Canadian content, so they will listen & watch it.

Smarten up CRTC.


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## Trevor... (Feb 21, 2003)

> Then there is the Fox News issue.... The CRTC will not allow them a license to broadcast in Canada,


That might come as a bit of a suprise to the CRTC, 
http://www.crtc.gc.ca/archive/eng/Decisions/2000/DB2000-565.htm

I like Fox News, it's like "Talking to Americans" 24 hours a day.

That Bill O'Reiley guy must be on PCP,


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

I also wonder who was bought out to allow Al-Jazeera. There's a lot of money in those Arab countries.

Could this be another Adscam?


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## MrVermin (Jul 26, 2002)

Trevor Stated:



> That might come as a bit of a suprise to the CRTC,
> 
> www.crtc.gc.ca/archive/eng/Decisions/2000/DB2000-565.htm


That application was not for the Fox News Network, it was for Fox News Canada.... Something akin to when the Food network split between the US station and Food TV Canada. 

Look at the Food TV (US) site and check their listings... Then look at the Food Network (Canada) site and check their listings... Different... 

Same with Bravo Canada and Bravo as shown on Direct TV, or BBC America and BBC Canada.... The list goes on...

All thanks to the CRTC.... Anyone remember Keith Spicer???

MrVermin


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

> Look at the Food TV (US) site and check their listings... Then look at the Food Network (Canada) site and check their listings... Different...


This is another reason as to why I have my "grey area TV". Not to mention all of the above points. Call it freedom of choice.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

You guys should check out The Control Room before dismissing Al Jazeera. I agree that downloading censorship responsibility to the cable operators is a major cop-out, but slamming Al Jazeera is like shooting the messenger. I'd also note that this channel is available in the US, along with other Arabic channels.

For people who miss Fox News, there's always Rush Limbaugh and the Cartoon Network







And the shutting down of CHOI wasn't out of the blue but after repeated warnings and flagrant disregard of those warnings by the owner - this simply smacks of brinkmanship and the owner called the CRTC's bluff and lost. I'd also point out that the FCC have been considerably more active in fining US radio stations. It's hardly a Liberal conspiracy!


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

*I would still like to be able to watch American commercials during sporting events and not see Canadian content "injected" into their commercial breaks*

While I would like to see the SuperBowl ads, as well as a few other choice events, for the most part it isn't worth it. Turn on TBS for a while to see what I mean. I've seen enough "ultimate and permanent mobile home roofing solution" ads to make me never want to see an American ad again.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

> It's hardly a Liberal conspiracy!


Right.

It is a carefully thought out agenda to censor, what we as a free people should have the right to view, if we choose to do so.

The CRTC is archaic and should be abolished. 

Cheers


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## Dessert Whip (Jun 19, 2004)

> It is a carefully thought out agenda to censor, what we as a free people should have the right to view, if we choose to do so.
> The CRTC is archaic and should be abolished.


…or maybe to save us from "South Canadian" propaganda in our own country. (I've decided as a North American, I'm tired of the U.S. being the Americans... so now I refer to them as South Canadians. Fight fire with fire!) You want US news and programming without a Canadian spin, go to the US. Surely the ads and programming on Al-Jazeera will be tweeked for us Canadians, too.... if it's on Canadian airwaves, it is aimed at Canadians right? CRTC may not always be right, but their "hearts" are in the right place. IN CANADA. 

I remember being a naive little Canadian kid, all wrapped up in South Canadian marketing, thinking everything was so cool down there... But then I grew up, wised up and now understand how we differ. And how we have it so much better, thanks to "policies" such as the CRTC. 

As long as we keep an eye, I'm all for the CRTC in theory. When I see non-Canadian content, I like having it presented by Canadians in the form of... "here's something from somewhere else" or "now back to that thing from that place with those people".


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Heaven forbid Canada be allowed to air the 2nd largest news station in the world because it is Arab based.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

> And how we have it so much better, thanks to "policies" such as the CRTC.


So lemme get this straight.

In your (insert time on planet here) years of gathered wisdom, you actually believe censorship is a good thing?

Wow, I AM impressed! They must be teaching new theory at university these days, are they?

Cheers


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## Peter Scharman (Jan 4, 2002)

> *It is a carefully thought out agenda to censor, what we as a free people should have the right to view, if we choose to do so.
> *


You're confusing me..... So then you actually agree that Al-Jazeera should be allowed to be watched by Canadian residents. Too bad they're going to censor it, so you won't be able to see or hear the bad stuff.  Damn those Liberal conspirators!


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> you actually believe censorship is a good thing?


pure Alberta-think
after all Alberta is almost Texas North
they both have elected a stupid, alcoholic man as their leader
they both have lots of oil and not much sympathy for their fellow man

age is certainly no prerequisite for wisdom

albertans, such as sink, don't want to part of canada and such infantile statements only underscores his/their resentment of being part of Canada, except of course when their farmacorps star feeding animals parts to obvious herbivores, then they look for a bailout from guess who? - mr. and mrs. avg. canadian


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

> sink


Spelling problem have we?



> star feeding animals


Oops, did it again did we?



> they both have elected a stupid, alcoholic man as their leader


He's been sober for a long time now. By the way, is YOUR province debt free?  



> age is certainly no prerequisite for wisdom


Darn, so I guess I should have listened to my 16 year old son back then and given him that muscle car AND five grand to go to Vegas?

Unbelievable logic.

Cheers


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## Chealion (Jan 16, 2001)

Macspectrum - I beg to differ your ideas about Alberta, but that's not the reason for my post.

Al-Jazzera was among nine non-Canadian channels that the CRTC approved, and one of the key reasons to Al-Jazzera being allowed in according to a CanWest News Service article I read was that Al-Jazzera didn't have a competitor in Canada, while RAI International does (Telelatino).

Even though the CRTC has approved Al-Jazzera, I doubt we're going to see someone actually bring the broadcast to people's homes.

The reason why is that the CRTC requires that cable companies must be able to stop or censor any unwanted footage. (eg. bleeping out swear words, masking out pornography if needed, Janet Jackson wardrobe malfunctions, etc.)

Because of some of the content they air I can see why broadcasters would be leery of broadcasting Al-Jazzera in case of repercussions.

Besides I'm pretty sure a lot of people here wouldn't stand for the idea of the private sector dictating what Canadians can and can not view.


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## iGeeK (Jan 27, 2003)

SINC wrote:

*In your (insert time on planet here) years of gathered wisdom, *

SINC, condescension doesn't quite come across as wisdom.

From the number of times you pull the "wise granpappy" card, you have been on this planet how long? Several thousand years?

We unworthy mortals are just stunned by your antediluvian effulgence.

You are against censorhip, eh?

Yes, you should definitely have the full, unfettered freedom to watch American TV. No censorhip there at all, eh? Nooone whatsoever.


iG/<


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## iGeeK (Jan 27, 2003)

SINC wrote:

*Darn, so I guess I should have listened to my 16 year old son back then and given him that muscle car AND five grand to go to Vegas?*

Yep, extreme wisdom in action.

Just how do you translate this family anecdote into an universal axiom that age equals wisdom?

A plenty of old geezers go to Vegas in their muscle Winnebagos every day and blow considerably more there than five grand.

BTW, you manage to straighten out your kid? Been to Vegas on his own power yet?


iG/<


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

> Just how do you translate this family anecdote into an universal axiom that age equals wisdom?


Pretty basic iGeek.

Young and inexperienced equals lack of real wisdom.

And yes my son has indeed been to Vegas on his own. The situation I referred to happened 20 years ago.

As for your slur on my being both an old geezer and a motor home owner, I will accept your apology.

I chalk comments like that up to the age and wisdom axiom you referred to.

Cheers


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> He's been sober for a long time now.


and the scary part is that he is now more stupid than ever

take a look at his advisors that have left him after he "sobered up" and he has since decided to believe his own bull sh*t

alberta good, canada bad..... goes the cry
socialized medicine is bad - especially when alberta has so much money
money is good
caring about fellow citizens is bad

BSE is bad, but i didn't see the oil corps rushing to help - who bailed out alberta farmers? - Canadians
yep, the same evil Canadians that didn't vote for Harper and his American ass kissing cohorts


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I repeat, is YOUR province debt free?  



> yep, the same evil Canadians that didn't vote for Harper and his American ass kissing cohorts


Ah, just a trifle bitter are we?

Cheers


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> I repeat, is YOUR province debt free?


my province doesn't just happen to be sitting on top of old dinosaurs

Albertans are always so smug about their "fiscal intelligence"
gee, like it takes a lot of brains to pump oil out of the ground

Ontario has been the economic engine of Canada for many years now
oh and we're broke because of 2 terms of bad Conservative money management
McGuinty is now left with picking up the pieces of the not-so-common-sense revolution

Albertans should have a lot more money in their Heritage Fund than currently exists

yeah, wait until ralphie boys gets booted out
there are lots of skeletons in that old drunkard's closet


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

MACSPECTRUM, I find it odd that you seem incapable of referring to Albertans without slurring them. Not to mention tarring them all with the same brush.

Most Albertans, in spite of your resorting to name calling and childish remarks about our elected leaders, ever return the favour.

Is something to be learned from that observation?

Cheers


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> Is something to be learned from that observation?


from reading the Edmonton Sun and the Calgary Herald


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> Most Albertans, in spite of your resorting to name calling and childish remarks about our elected leaders, ever return the favour.


oh please, you can't be serious?

in alberta name the calling of Ontarians and Liberal prime ministers almost qualifies as a bona fide hobby


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## iGeeK (Jan 27, 2003)

Chealion wrote:

*The Muslim faith does contains some interesting verses in the Koran about not befriending Jew, Christian or friend of a Jew. Or that killing an infidel, no matter what you've done is a free key to heaven.*

The Muslim faith doesn't contain any verses in the Quran. The latter contains verses, which are the foundation of Islam. What is built upon that foundation by the people, is another story. The same could be said for any Holy Scripture.

Quran says many things.

Among them: _"Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish 
(scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in God and the
Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on
them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
''_

I challenge you to find anything in the Torah or NT which is equally as tolerant of other religious practices.

iG/<


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## george.. (Jun 16, 2003)

> Back to Al-Jazeera, I think they have a dangerous biased slant and extoll the extremism coming from parts of the Arab world.


Back to CNN, I think they have a dangerous biased slant and extoll the extremism coming from parts of the American Imperialist world and Isreal.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Before I comment on the real thread just a bit of quick math on the Alberta debt.

$127 billion in oil and gas revenues over 30 years for 3 million people to get to debt paid off in Alberta

So WITHOUT THAT WINDFALL REVENUE.
That would put Alberta *$338 billion in debt  * on a population equalized basis to Ontario.
Brilliant management.








Ontario debt is less than half that.
So, a little less crowing from the cheap seats....unless you like feather dinners ala MacNutt  

•••••

Control of the public media exposure is never an easy task especially living next door to the elephant .
As with many things Canada, tends to steer a middle path between "wide open" and "highly controlled" and that "path" often waggles about significantly.

With great power ....which the media has....comes great responsibility...which the media often doesn't have.
One reason I'm very admiring of the Globe these days in it's effort to offer a balanced approach.
That's not to say unified or pablum - but for every voice on one side of an issue they strive for another to offset it.

To some degree that is perhaps the heart of the matter here.
AJ offers an offsetting viewpoint to the "spin" we get from down south.
One reason I like to watch BBC and listen to CBC late night with news from countries around the world.....the actual stations themselves not a re-interpretation.

My perception is that Canadians view themselves as part of a greater world. That concept is a bit hazy or missing entirely in the US too often.

I think media and news here is taken seriously as well instead of just a means to a bottom line.
Anyone who followed the fall of the mighty CBS News with it's legacy from Edward R Murrow knows what I'm talking about.

AJ is a window into a major culture with all the positives and negatives that implies. The CRTC has walked a fine line between the value of that window and alternative view and the possiblity of "expressions of hate" that contravene Canada's laws.
Not an easy line to walk.
As an offset to the likes of Fox it's valuable.

The Quebec case is very different and really the discussions do not deserve to be intertwined. The Quebec situation speaks to a different issue of where the public responsibility of media versus free speech lines are drawn and how much power the governing body has to enforce responsible broadcasting where it is perceived to be missing.
My understanding is that the CRTC acts on complaints and does not arbitrarily decide to take action on its own unless there are legal breaches of the Broadcasting Act.

I'm willing to be enlightened on how that works.


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## iGeeK (Jan 27, 2003)

SINC wrote:

*Young and inexperienced equals lack of real wisdom.*

What is "real" wisdom? You really think that experience always translates into that?

I have seen completely inexperienced children making better decisions than their Grandparents. Many times.

*And yes my son has indeed been to Vegas on his own.*

So, it seems not much wisdom gained in the aging process, eh? Or has he not reached the ripe old age that has that fully developed wisdom?  

*As for your slur on my being both an old geezer and a motor home owner, I will accept your apology.*

You *could* accept it, had I given it. For the moment I shan't. You see, this was not a slur. I genuinely was not aware about you having a motor home. So you are projecting.

I often call myself an old geezer, and so does my niece, so I don't even vaguely see it as insulting. Rather an affectionate label, really.  

*I chalk comments like that up to the age and wisdom axiom you referred to.*

I just chalk them up to my puckishness. Which is also not a trait specifically the domain of any single age group.

Save for the geezer part, which may or may not be considered rude, would you not agree that a great deal of the retired demographic transport themselves to Vegas (whatever is their choice of locomotion), spend great amounts of money there, and generally behave as though life has not taught them any significant lessons?

Why aren't they wise? They are sure old.

BTW, what is the special age when one reaches wisdom?


Dang, I sure wish I were 16, had a muscle car and five grand. Willing to trade any age ripened wisdom for a few days of that. Although... my destination wouldn't be Vegas, or any casino town. Too many rowdy Albertans there.

Now, that could be interpreted as a slur (as with your comment about Earwigs being an Eastern thing), but it happens to be true.  

iG/<


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## MrVermin (Jul 26, 2002)

I maintain that my issue with this is not that Al Jazeera is allowed to broadcast at all in Canada, it is the method in which it was given it's broadcast rights and the sanctions imposed on it by the Archaic CRTC. As well as my issue with why RAI was not allowed a licence.

If in this day and age a product cannot stand competition, then that product should die the death it deserves. It is the law of consumerism, an inferior product does not sell and is discontinued....

If Corus thinks that their 24hour all Itallian cable channel is such a good product, then they sould not be worried about competition from RAI...

If it proves that it is an inferior product, then no one watches it and it gets closed down due to unprofitability... Simple...

With regards to the Al Jazeera issue, I am not a fan of Censorship in any way. I feel that Al Jazeera should be made available in Canada. This way Canadians can see what the Arab world thinks of Westerners directly from an Arab point of view and not a CNN point of view. 

My problem is how it will be allowed to broadcast and under what conditions. Too much censorship power will be placed in the hands of the Cable Companies like Rogers and Shaw in order to be allowed to broadcast this channel on their networks. 

Is is fair that the cable companies have to place a person on the delay button in order to make sure that Al Jazeera does not broadcast offensive material? and why should the cable companies have to tape the channel 24/7 at their expense just so the CRTC can investigate a complaint? and how is to say just what is offensive and to what degree?

I think that it is time that the security blanket be removed from the Canadian radio/television industry. Let the people decide what they want to watch and let the rest fall by the wayside....

Then again, do we really want to turn into a society of Reallity TV watching vegetables??

MrVermin
"I'm back and I'm on a roll..."


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## iGeeK (Jan 27, 2003)

While reading a newspaper today, I was amused to see that Al-Jazeera was accused of being "anti-semitic".

Nhuh? Perhaps "anti-Israeli", or even "anti-Jewish", but "anti-semitic"?

I thought that it was just one reporter's stumble, but upon doing some research, I'm now amazed to find that Israelis seem to have obtained some strange exclusive media rights for being semitic.

Odd, that. Rather un-PC, really.


iG/<


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## Peter Scharman (Jan 4, 2002)

C'mon guys...we're getting a bit childish and just egging each other on. That said, I HAVE observed that western whine and the arrogance of "Is YOUR province debt free?" There seems to be no pleasing of some people. Alberta is debt free not because of any great management, although all the slashing by Ralph did help balance the budget faster than it needed to be at the cost of thousands of family jobs (very empathatic of him). Having provincial claim (it should never have been that way) to the price-spiraling liquid gold and natural gas reserves is the reason Alberta is rich. If Canada were to treat Alberta like a family member who now has his own supporting income and cancelled his weekly allowance, it would surely bring screams of anguish. It's like, "Thanks for all those years of allowance and support in tougher times, dad......how come you're in debt and I'm not?. By the way, did you know that you don't understand me and that you're stupid and selfish?" Go figure!







 
I've heard Ralph speak on numerous occasions.....he is a role model for arrogance and whining, for sure. Some of it is bound to rub off on the people who admire him.


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## Chealion (Jan 16, 2001)

Macspectrum - BSE didn't only affect Alberta. Alberta isn't the only place with ranches. A family friend of mine that owns a ranch, were forced to keep their cattle in Manitoba where they send them for the winter because of the scare.

And just because Klein says something, does not mean all Albertans believe it. That would be like saying that since Bill Gates said everyone should own their handheld video player, everyone who uses Windows says that too.

And pumping oil does require money and brains. There is a reason oil geologists are paid several hundred grand a year. And most of our oil is in tar sands, meaning we have to get the oil out of the sands. But whether this cash cow has anything to do with fiscal intelligence is something I have doubts about. The fiscal intelligence came from cutting costs as much as possible, without rendering the system inoperable. (That doesn't mean the system was near inoperable *cough* education *cough*)

And given Alberta's history to stay with the same party for decades, along with Klein's relative popularity, I really doubt we'll see him kicked out before he retires.

iGeek - Wisdom doesn't necessarily corelate with years. Some get it through the experience of years, others through the experience of others. Either way, we could all learn to be a little more wise. (I'd nominate myself first).

I won't profess to knowing a great deal, simply because I don't, but I do know that antagonism doesn't get anyone anywhere fast. (Sans blitzkrieging them ala WWII, or for Macspectrum; shock and awe rather recently.)

Alberta may not be perfect (you can't please everyone), but they are in the best financial position to actually make some worthwhile changes. Money won't buy everything, but it sure greases the way.

Peter Scharman - What weekly allowance? As is, Alberta gives more money out then it receives from the government, simply because it is a "have" province. A lot of people complain about this, but how else is one supposed to attempt to decrease the amount of regional disparity that occurs in our country?

Lastly, iGeek; according to dictionary.com, semitism is defined as:
1 A Semitic word or idiom.
2 Semitic traits, attributes, or customs.
3 A policy or predisposition in favor of Jews

So would it not be "nicer" and more politically correct to say one was anti-semetic (therefore against policies or predispositions in favour of Jews?). I know the Germans did. It sounded much nicer then anti-Jew to those who were more neutral on the affair.

Al-Jazzera is an Arabic station, that is predominantly Muslim. The Muslim faith does contains some interesting verses in the Koran about not befriending Jew, Christian or friend of a Jew. Or that killing an infidel, no matter what you've done is a free key to heaven.

Middle East politics can be most perplexing at times because of the necessity of never backing down.

[ July 17, 2004, 12:46 AM: Message edited by: Chealion ]


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## iGeeK (Jan 27, 2003)

Peter Scharman wrote:

*C'mon guys...we're getting a bit childish and just egging each other on.*

Isn't that the purpose of this here forum, Peter? Or am I missing something?

Oh... We are supposed to engage in civil and meaningful discussion, right?

Doh!  

iG/<


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## MrVermin (Jul 26, 2002)

> Main Entry: Sem·ite
> Pronunciation: 'se-"mIt, esp British 'sE-"mIt
> Function: noun
> Etymology: French sémite, from Semitic Shem, from Late Latin, from Greek SEm, from Hebrew ShEm
> ...


In truth being an Anti-Semite is to be Anti-Middle Eastern... However, the Jews (and being one myself) took the term around the time of the forming of the state of Isreal to represent those that promoted hatred against the Jewesh state and people.

Funny part is in the Middle East those that promote hatred against the Jewish state are called Anti-Zionists.



> Main Entry: Zi·on·ism
> Pronunciation: 'zI-&-"ni-z&m
> Function: noun
> : an international movement orig. for the establishment of a Jewish national or religious community in Palestine and later for the support of modern Israel
> ...


The founder of modern political Zionism was Theodor Herzl. His efforts gave impetus to a 50-year campaign that culminated in the establishment of Israel in 1948.

History 101

MrVermin


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## MrVermin (Jul 26, 2002)

Let's try to get this back on the topic of the CRTC and the decisions that it has made this week regarding Al Jazeera, CHOI, RAI and Fox News Network.

Keep the Alberta political stuff to another topic please...

MrVermin


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## Peter Scharman (Jan 4, 2002)

Sorry, that last post was off the track...I was just needing to respond to the previous posts and the same old drum banging.
Back to Al-Jazeera, I think they have a dangerous biased slant and extoll the extremism coming from parts of the Arab world. I fear that broadcating the full content of this TV network would create more dislike of the Arab world, since we obviously don't understand each other and have a dislike for each others society structures. The extreme aspects of this network need to be weeded out before public viewing to maintain a reasonable sense of tolerance and promote understanding without undue prejudice. It seems so far that most of the cable companies are not prepared to be the ones responsible for the censoring and the subsequent flack if they fail to do a "proper job". That may be the trump card for the CRTC in dealing with this issue.


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## Cynical Critic (Sep 2, 2002)

My abridged opinion is that AJ should not be censored but a balanced counter-point or analysis/explanation should be offered to the viewing public for the more extreme viewpoints presented.

Nevertheless, the cynical realist in me understands that some level of censorship will ultimately exist and may be necessary.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Doesn't that sort of assume Canadians will "hook line and sinker" anything fed us???

Are we not capable of making the "balance" assessments ourselves??
After all we get deluged from down south all the time yet maintain our distance.

I agree that translation should be a condition and also adhering to the hate law legislation. As someone pointed out in the Globe or Star - I can't recall - the acceptance of AJ as a cultural voice on a par with other major news organization at the same time creates an expectation that they rise above totally regional biases to adhere to similar standards of broadcasting that world level stations like the BBC undertake.
It might take some time but that would be a worthy goal for the voice of the Middle East.

I'd say let it run as it is broadcast - with translation - and see how AJ rises to the challenge instead of muzzling it from the get go with conditions that perhaps other stations are not subject to.

I think we can make up our own minds.
The commercial Canadian content rules I think are getting tangled with the "availability of news" from an alternate perspective.
CBC broadcasts news feeds from around the world every night. AJ should be one of them.

If AJ offends then WMDs ......weapons of mass documentation - can be employed by concerned citizens to point out the preceived error of their ways.
Communication is a two way street these days and citizens have the power to voice their approval or distain.

But I do think translation is a necessity.


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## Brainstrained (Jan 15, 2002)

I found it interesting to learn this weekend that El Jazeera ia vailable in Israel in unedited form and that Israeli politicians and government spokespeople regularly appear on El Jazeera to put forth their point of view.

I'm not overly concerned that the station will incite Canadians or Canadian Arabs to take up arms or that it needs to be monitored and edited throughout the day.

I think this and other recent decisions underline that it's time to rethink the purpose and role of the CRTC.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

My understanding is that Al-Jazeera is to broadcast in Arabic...kind of tough to get the "other point of view" when you don't speak the language....all this, provided, your friendly local cable co. will offer it for free. Doubt that, amigos, if they have to pay someone to "babysit" the broadcast. 

Too much ado about nothing....


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## depmode101 (Sep 4, 2002)

> The sad part is we will be forced to receive and pay for this channel in our cable/satellite packages.


when new channels like these are introduced, they would be an extra digital channel offer - sort of like the odyssey television network (a greek channel) - in that you would have to pay for the channel to receive it.
it wouldnt be added to the basic lineup that would force people to pay extra for it without having a choice.

the CRTC enforces certain channels to be added to the basic lineup that would force people to get the channel and have to pay for it - i.e. the aboriginal channel that was launched last year.

the positioning statement released by Rogers regarding the al jazeera channel is:



> Note that the CRTC has imposed strict conditions for the carriage of Al Jazeera. As a
> result, it is highly unlikely that Rogers will carry this service.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Regarding the CRTC, Ezra got it right! 

Cheers


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> Regarding the CRTC, Ezra got it right!


"right" is not always "correct"

Stephen Harper et al would have you believe otherwise


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Classic SUN. The issue is not about "boob". The writer might indeed qualify as one tho.










> "The CRTC decision catalogues a long list of CHOI sins, detailing how two of its personalities, Jean-François Fillion and André Arthur, offended a few of their tens of thousands of listeners with comments about mental patients such as "[translation] *What I think they should do in the zoo is fill up the rooms, and then there'd be a switch, and once every four months, they press the button and just a little bit of gas comes out, and then you go in and pick it all up and put it in bags." They urged listeners to steal satellite signals and referred to North Africans as "cannibals." *
> 
> Now it's likely that one or two of these offences would have resulted in a slap on the wrist and an on-air apology. But station owner Genex repeatedly defied the rules, so much so that, at its last licence hearing, it was given only a two-year opportunity — instead of the usual seven-year renewal — to clean up its act.
> 
> It didn't, and the CRTC had to live up to its mandate under the Canadian Broadcasting Act "to safeguard, enrich and strengthen the cultural, political, social and economic fabric of Canada" etc. etc. etc


more 

Having a broadcast licence is a privilege with responsibilities - they were warned - they pay the price of not heeding the warning by losing their licence.
Drive stupid the same applies.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

The CRTC should be abolished.

"What will save us, of course, is the Internet. Try regulating that. A political news site such as Canada's Bourque.org already has more readers than many print newspapers. Try to shut him down and he'll just move his site offshore. Hopefully vigorous newspapers such as the Sun, and guerrilla websites such as Bourque's, will kill the CRTC if politicians won't."

THAT is CORRECT. And the sooner the better.

Cheers


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

"vigorous" - another "code word" like family values I guess.









A SUN columnist patting himself on the back. Fancy that.

Sinc, SUN Media is the laughingstock of the Canadian newspaper world. Tabloid terrors. 









And for backup of that



> NATIONAL NEWSPAPER AWARDS
> March 19, 2004
> 
> 
> ...


more 

and nary a single SUN Media paper to be seen.

'Course it's all a conspiracy don'tja know. 

[ July 19, 2004, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: MacDoc ]


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

> Sinc, SUN Media is the laughingstock of the newspaper world.


Ya know MacDoc, I worked for Sun Media for the last 12 years of my career and I resent that kind of comment. You have no friggin' idea what makes up Sun Media's people. And especially from someone who has absolutely no concept of the diversity of the company, nor its scope in the fabric of Canada.

How would you feel if I said the same thing about your company? And to boot if you are so much better, where the hell is the firewire drive you promised me over a month ago via e-mail? I've pretty much given up on that, in spite of providing the details for shipping you asked for. Perhaps try cleaning up your own back yard before you crap in mine.

Cheers


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

See above. That's not me rejecting SUN Media paper content that's their peers.

It's no reflection on you the policies that SUN Media management hands down tho it does perhaps explain your choice of reading materials.  

From what I can see there are some well written well respected papers out your way. Too bad we don't get sufficient quotes and insight from them.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Like I said, you have no idea what Sun Media is all about.

Look here:

http://www.ccna.ca/convention2003/bnc/

And look for the names of these Sun Media papers:

Jasper Booster
High River Times
Hinton Parklander
Lacombe Globe
Melfort Journal
Nipawin Journal
Wetaskiwin Times Advertiser
Camrose Canadian
Leduc Representative
Lloydminster Meridian Booster
Selkirk Journal
Edson Leader
Canmore Leader
Steinbach Carillon
Goderich Signal Star

You might be surprised to know that Sun Media publishes 165 or more community newspapers that bring over a million Canadians there only community news in small town Canada.

That was the division I was involved with for 40 years, including six daily newspapers as well. Over 30 of those papers are in Ontario, over 40 in Alberta, over 50 in Quebec and the rest in Saskatchewan and Manitoba.

Cheers


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

See I'm right it IS a conspiracy. Hey do the FEDs know about this????  

I guess that also begs the question if the little papers are good what's wrong with the flagships


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Shhhh, don't tell anyone, but they keep hiring Brits to run the editorial side of things. They think they know tabloids and that is why you get the kind of quality you do on the flagships.

Sooner they let resident journalists into senior positions, the sooner they will gain respect.

But, I didn't say that of course.

Cheers


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## iGeeK (Jan 27, 2003)

SINC wrote:

*Like I said, you have no idea what Sun Media is all about.*

Some readers have caught on as to what it is all about.










If you want, I will dig around, I have more reader awards like these from other Canadian cities.

"Look here: http://www.ccna.ca/convention2003/bnc/ "

Other than the internal back-patting and the corporate logo Christmas tree, what are we supposed to see?

iG/<

[ July 19, 2004, 11:19 PM: Message edited by: iGeeK ]


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

So, just what does a 404 link prove iGeek?

Cheers


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## iGeeK (Jan 27, 2003)

It's your own link, and yeah, what does it prove?

[edit]

Actually, it does prove a lot...

Outstanding Reporter Initiative.
Sponsored by ESSO, Imperial Oil...

"Community" newspaper awards.
Sponsored by Alcan, etc.


We trust you, now. Really, we do.

















iG/<

[ July 19, 2004, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: iGeeK ]


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

"*they keep hiring Brits to run the editorial side of things*. They think they know tabloids and that is why you get the kind of quality you do on the flagships"

Now THAT makes sense. Rabble rousers indeed. No wonder Conrad felt right at home in Blimey Olde


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> You have no friggin' idea what makes up Sun Media's people.


for $1 or so I find out
If only I had a bird and a birdcage or guinea pigs so that I could put the *Sun* papers to good use.

"Methinks he doth protest too much."


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

> If only I had a bird and a birdcage or guinea pigs so that I could put the Sun papers to good use.


So all 160 plus of them are bad in your opinion?

Until you have read them, you can't judge them.



> Actually, it does prove a lot...
> 
> Outstanding Reporter Initiative.
> Sponsored by ESSO, Imperial Oil...
> ...


So from your learned comments, I guess we can also conclude that any corporate sponsorship of awards is wrong?

How about this for example:

National Gallery - Proud of its Partners
The National Gallery of Canada and its Foundation take great pride in associating its exhibitions and special programmes with corporate, private foundation, and media sponsors. Without their support, the Gallery would not be in a position to undertake some of the very special exhibitions and activities that are presented at the Gallery, across Canada, and around the world. To all those who have made a difference and contributed to the success of many wonderful projects, we extend our thanks and gratitude.


2002 – 2003 Sponsors

  American Express Foundation
  Corel Corporation
  Export Development Canada
  Imperial Oil Charitable Foundation
  Investors Group
  Sotheby’s


In-Kind

  CBC Television
  Création Lucas
  K.W. Catering
  La Télévision de Radio-Canada
  LeDroit
  Les Ailes de la Mode
  Royal Canadian Mint
  St. Joseph Print Group Ottawa
  The Ottawa Citizen
  Voir
  Xpress


Previous Sponsors

  AIM Trimark Investments
  Air Canada
  Air France
  American Express Foundation
  AT&T Canada
  Bayers Inc.
  Blake, Cassels & Graydon LLP
  CAE Inc.
  Canadian Pacific Charitable Foundation
  CBC Television
  Christie’s Canada Inc.
  Chubb Insurance
  Corona Extra
  Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade of Canada
  Epson Canada
  Fairmont Hotels and Resorts – Château Laurier
  The Financial Post
  Gelmont Foundation
  Imperial Oil Charitable Foundation
  Investors Group
  LeDroit
  Lufthansa German Airlines
  Magna International Inc.
  Majic 100
  McCain Foods Limited
  Mexicana Airlines
  Midland Walwyn
  Newcourt Credit Group
  The Ottawa Citizen
  Parnassus Foundation
  PBB Global Logistics
  SGI Canada
  Sotheby’s
  La Télévision de Radio-Canada
  Trafalgar Tours
  Les Suites Hotel

Cheers


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## Dessert Whip (Jun 19, 2004)

I am the recipient of a 2004 BCYCNA award for a spot news photo. It was made possible by big corporate monster sponsors, and I'm still pretty proud of it.

As I see it, newspapers sell advertising to cover print costs. Some companies benefit from advertising. Imagine that! Some of those companies feel they owe a little something back to the little people who are involved in making those newspapers good enough to buy. Then we feel we're not just working at low wages for nothing. 

Sure, there are tax breaks and publicity involved... ooh, those nasty corporate buggers, doing that business stuff. 

As far as Sun Media, (no I don't work for them) every paper has its own publisher and editorial staff with their own "brains". It's the publisher who decides if they run "Associated Press" stories or not. Sun can hire people of their kind when filling management positions, but they're all humans. The things they'd have in common, paper to paper, would be lower print/supply costs, the people who write their cheques and the same Head Office relationships any satelite or franchise business would normally have. ie budgeting, planning, human resources, benefits, etc. If a certain paper is shat, it's probably not Sun Medias fault. Look at the staff. However, Sun does have the ability to make a paper better, or run one out of town. Ala Walmart. There's lots of big boys like Sun in the paper trade, but it's more of a real estate thing than any sort of media controlling. 
News happens. Print media will always swing side to side as long as it doesn't piss off the advertisers. Biased stories get nasty letters. Editors don't like those kind of letters. 
I really didn't intend to defend Sun, but I won't allow the big companies to always take heat. It's usually simple jealousy. There's always something that made them so successful. 

You take the good, and you take the bad.... somethin', somethin'.... the facts of life?


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Well sure. Tabloid sensationalism is a road to profits. Look at the MM industry and the success of the tabloids in Britain where apparently SUN Media talent is drawn from.
So by appointing those types of staff the SUN management IS exerting influence.

That said tho the 4th estate has an important role and responsibility within a democratic state.
For me I'll take the Globe's brand of holding to "balanced reporting" as preferred course for a serious news organization.

The Globe also is "influencing" reportage by undertaking studies and making a rational effort to provide balanced coverage in its pages.
I think the distinction is between news and entertainment.

I think we all agree information we can rely on is critical these days to making informed decisions. We've seen the "weapons of mass documentation" applied in many cases to bring about change.

Intertwining the critical role of "news" as the voice of the Foruth estate with an eye to "entertain" I perceive as a problem...more so in the US than here.

When governments then use "tame voices in the media" for their own ends the power of Fourth Estate is badly eroded and damaged.

Interesting article in the Star today



> *Who will protect us from Fox?*
> Censoring Al-Jazeera a double standard
> U.S. cable news station abusive, openly biased
> 
> ...


more 

Maybe tabloids and sensationalism have their place for entertainment and "bottom line dollar.
However, just as we guard our political institutions and demand high standards, so to society is well served by expecting high standards from the Fourth estate.
They are a critical part of a society of free people. Hold them to account. 

Many governments including Canada have laws against concentration of media iin too few hands.......with good reason.


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## iGeeK (Jan 27, 2003)

SINC enquires:

*So from your learned comments, I guess we can also conclude that any corporate sponsorship of awards is wrong?*

Yeah, you can, from my comments (learned, or otherwise), both guess and conclude that. Even simultaneously. 

Corporations can contribute to awards and cultural programs by being taxed. As everyone else. If they really feel extremely altruistic, they can contribute further funds, without having their logos smeared everywhere. Otherwise, it is not about promoting culture. It's about culture promoting the corporations.

Art has long been a scarlet whore in thrall to sponsorship, so that's totally OK. Why break with a beautiful tradition?









Once corporations are involved in paying for culture, they start to dictate what culture is.


Oh, yeah.... National Gallery... Yawn...

Thanks for the long list of the corporate bodies who pay for that cultural ossuary. They get their names engraved in marble and brass, too. How cultured.


iG/<


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