# Getting out of Fido contract...changes to contract?



## mpuk (May 24, 2005)

In short, i'm moving out of the country, and apparently am in the start of year 2 of 3 of a contract with Fido for my iPhone. Since you can't get an iPhone without a contract, I had no choice but to sign up, either way - not knowing that I would be moving during the contract period.

Fido does not offer service in the US, yet they claim I owe $500+taxes to cancel my account, unless if I sell my contract out to someone else or continue to use the phone in the US with their roaming fees. Everybody and their brother has a cellphone, so why would someone want to buy a used one with a contract when you can get a new one for $199? Continuing to use the phone in the US is just plain stupid, plus every call is long distance in and out.

So, question is this...anyone have any good suggestions as to how to get out of a Fido contract without having to pay the ridiculous contract fee? 

I have heard something about changes to Fido contracts, i.e. rate changes, or other general policy changes are a window of opportunity if you call and disagree with them within 30 days...anyone have any experience with this?


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

You would basically give your iPhone away free in exchange for them taking over your contract. That's what I've done a couple of times before.


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## mpuk (May 24, 2005)

Well, i've paid for my phone, why would I want to give it away? I can use it in the US with T-Mobile. Just figure there has got to be a way to do it, without having to pay $500, for nothing, really...


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

when you signed up for your contract you agreed to these things, and you also agreed to allow them to make changes to your plan, services, coverage etc.

basically anything you can think of to try to weasel out of you contract has already been thought of by rogers' lawyers and covered in the agreement you agreed to when you signed up.


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## mpuk (May 24, 2005)

broad said:


> when you signed up for your contract you agreed to these things, and you also agreed to allow them to make changes to your plan, services, coverage etc.
> 
> basically anything you can think of to try to weasel out of you contract has already been thought of by rogers' lawyers and covered in the agreement you agreed to when you signed up.


Far from an answer to my question. I was not looking for a smart-ass comment siding with the provider's contract. I am looking for some help from others who have been in similar situations.

And it's not weaseling out of anything. I pay for my service, and have no complaints otherwise, and if my service was provided elsewhere, I would continue to pay for it. It's not, so I am looking for ways to avoid paying a $500 fine for moving out of their service area. Not like I am trying to cancel a contract to scam or profit, I am legitimately moving. 

I am also not looking to spark another debate about what's right or wrong, fair or unfair. Just looking for some help, as that is what these forums are here for.


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## Flipstar (Nov 7, 2004)

broad said:


> when you signed up for your contract you agreed to these things, and you also agreed to allow them to make changes to your plan, services, coverage etc.
> 
> basically anything you can think of to try to weasel out of you contract has already been thought of by rogers' lawyers and covered in the agreement you agreed to when you signed up.


Well, the 30 day rule still applies. You have the chance to cancel out of the contract but, they haven't made any changes recently, so you're SOL there.

Like Dona83 said, you'll likely have to make some concessions if you want to transfer the contract out to someone else.

I think some of that $500 goes toward subsidies. So paying the $500 for nothing isn't completely true. 

How long do you plan on staying out of the country?


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## mpuk (May 24, 2005)

I don't know that i'm ever coming back. Long story. 

So if they make any changes relevant to my plan, I could basically say that I don't agree to them, and have them cancel my contract within 30 days of this change without the ETF? I suppose it might make sense to then downgrade my account to the minimum, and stay on top of changes. But then the question becomes, how often do they generally make changes though, and are you always notified? (I don't remember being notified about anything in the past year, but I don't get paper bills, and i'm sure something has changed)


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## G-Mo (Sep 26, 2007)

mpuk said:


> Well, i've paid for my phone, why would I want to give it away? I can use it in the US with T-Mobile. Just figure there has got to be a way to do it, without having to pay $500, for nothing, really...


You haven't paid for the phone though. The phone costs ~$800... Fido subsidized ~$600 of the cost of the phone on the grounds that you keep a contract with them for 3 years, via which they re-coup the subsity. So... At this point, technically, Fido still "owns" the phone... They want $500 for you to buy out the contract and thus the phone.

As suggested above, your best bet would be to sell, or give away if you can't sell it, otherwise, Fido will come after you for the breach.


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## mpuk (May 24, 2005)

G-Mo said:


> You haven't paid for the phone though. The phone costs ~$800... Fido subsidized ~$600 of the cost of the phone on the grounds that you keep a contract with them for 3 years, via which they re-coup the subsity. So... At this point, technically, Fido still "owns" the phone... They want $500 for you to buy out the contract and thus the phone.
> 
> As suggested above, your best bet would be to sell, or give away if you can't sell it, otherwise, Fido will come after you for the breach.


Sure, I understand that the phone would cost more than $199 retail, but another $500 + taxes is nuts. The actual value of the phone is not advertised or written anywhere I can find, as they don't offer the phone with no contract.


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## Gabbadude (Nov 17, 2005)

You could check this site. I might help you if you want to transfer to someone else.
Cancel or Take Over Cell Phone Contracts


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## G-Mo (Sep 26, 2007)

mpuk said:


> Sure, I understand that the phone would cost more than $199 retail, but another $500 + taxes is nuts. The actual value of the phone is not advertised or written anywhere I can find, as they don't offer the phone with no contract.


Yes it is, and yes you can! I bought one, 16gb, $799 cash (plus tax)...


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## mpuk (May 24, 2005)

Maybe now they do, but I called and in the end went into the store to get one, and they didn't in January 2009, and they certainly don't encourage it now or publicly offer it as an option. All the ads I see (and have seen) are for the $199 deal with a contract.

That aside, sounds like I have 3 options:

1) Pass on my contract and phone for free to someone, as an incentive.

2) Pay $500+ to cancel and keep my phone for use in the US.

3) Lower my package and wait for changes to my agreement. 

On point 3, where is it documented that Fido is making changes to customer's contracts? (Especially for those of us with paperless billing)


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## whatiwant (Feb 21, 2008)

mpuk said:


> 2) Pay $500+ to cancel and keep my phone for use in the US.


Also beware that using with T-Mob, you'll have to put the phone into 2G mode (as they use an incompatible 3G frequency) & further, you will probably have to jump through hoops in order to get data working properly if you choose to take on a data plan.

If you're already aware of this, you can ignore.

Good luck with #3, and I'm not being sarcastic. If you succeed, please post how you went about this for other forum members.


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## mpuk (May 24, 2005)

jawknee said:


> Also beware that using with T-Mob, you'll have to put the phone into 2G mode (as they use an incompatible 3G frequency) & further, you will probably have to jump through hoops in order to get data working properly if you choose to take on a data plan.
> 
> If you're already aware of this, you can ignore.
> 
> Good luck with #3, and I'm not being sarcastic. If you succeed, please post how you went about this for other forum members.


I travel the the US quite often. I bought a pay-as-you-go phone from a T-Mobile store about 8 months ago for $10 and have been using the sim in my iPhone ever since whenever I cross the border. $100 in minutes has lasted me up until now (with some to spare since the minutes rollover), and is great since you can text, check voicemail and call without issues, all inclusive. I have Navigon, which doesn't use data, so navigation is also not an issue. The only data i've gotten used to using is through Wifi. There are networks all over the place, and a lot of service stations off interstates have free wifi. Hasn't been a problem yet. So long story short, I am aware that the current phone I have isn't compatible with T-Mobile 3G, so I have to switch to Edge if I want to use (and pay for) data. 

All in all, after sleeping on it, I can't see myself paying $500+ for an already outdated iPhone 3G, or doing all the work to stay on top of contract changes when odds are this coming summer another new iPhone will be released. Maybe i'll look to buy one outright this time around down south, and will have to revert to the old school basic Nokia phone I got with the PAYG package for the time being!

I guess this all leads to, anyone in the Toronto area interested in taking over my 16GB black iPhone 3G with no major signs of wear and tear and 2 years remaining on a Fido iPhone contract with the 6GB data package, PM me. I'll post full details in the classifieds though.

Thanks for the replies.


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## mkolesa (Jul 22, 2008)

the other option is to pay off the contract and then sell the phone outright to minimize your loss... you'd still be out a little, but it may be better for you to start fresh after you land.


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## mpuk (May 24, 2005)

mkolesa said:


> the other option is to pay off the contract and then sell the phone outright to minimize your loss... you'd still be out a little, but it may be better for you to start fresh after you land.


That is another way of looking at it (and yes, possibly easier and faster to get rid of), but from my understanding (contrary to what I originally believed) there are people that would apparently be willing to just take over my contract, with the incentive of only 2 years left on the contract as opposed to 3, a no longer offered 6GB data package, and a much cheaper (lightly used) phone. Opening a new can of worms, but I figured offering it at $50 + the current contract was fair....


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## Snowy (Dec 13, 2008)

I think you should be able to sell the iPhone for about $300 (privately), cancel your contract with Fido and you'd only be out of your pocket for $200.

I know it's frustrating and can see why many just buy their phones outright from a private party and then jailbreak them or whatever they do to suit their needs.

It doesn't really bother me, but I know I'm not moving anywhere and seeing as how Rogers/Fido was the only provider a couple of years ago, I really didn't have any options.
I have never had any major concerns with Rogers, which is not the case with many others that have complained about the service provided to them.


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## bshell (Oct 4, 2007)

What about the radical idea of just leaving the country, and stop paying Fido, and then ignore any bills from them? The current state of EULA (End User Licensing Agreements) with large companies such as Bell, Rogers, Fido, Shaw, etc., while legal, are all completely outrageous in that they are totally one-sided. They are not really contracts, which are meant to be fair to both sides. They are unavoidable agreements that favour the provider in all ways, and strip end-users of all rights completely. It would be impossible for you (or any of us) as individuals to come up with enough money for lawyers to fight such ignominious contracts. The only recourse we have is to simply ignore them. 

What can Rogers (who own Fido) do if you follow this suggested course of action? They can first harass you for money they claim is owed to them. You can ignore this. They can then send your overdue account to a collections agency and then that company will harass you further. You can ignore this as well. It's annoying, but it's not that hard to do. Finally, they can sue you in small claims court. The amount is for $500 so the question is: is it worth it to them to go to all the trouble for this relatively small amount of money? Maybe not. On your side, what is the worst that happens? A note in your credit history that you defaulted on this particular contract? If you are financially secure and you always pay all your bills, then this will not be harmful to your credit status. 

Considering that you are also leaving the country and will be starting fresh someplace else, and you will be in a legal jurisdiction where they can't sue you easily, what is wrong with this plan? You could leave no forwarding address, making it very difficult for them to harass you. If you say it is immoral, then I say the current EULA situation is even more immoral. Few places on earth have more draconian EULA contracts such as we have in Canada. Maybe no places. In addition there's no end to the comments and observations on ehmac.ca about how these companies are charging far too much for the services they provide. If you say that the original poster "owes" Fido $500 for the cost of the phone. I can assure you, Fido recovered those costs probably within the first six months of his contract. There ought to be a law against the way Canadians are gouged by these large robber barons. In the absence of such sensible laws there's only one thing that citizens can do: ignore the EULAs.


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## mpuk (May 24, 2005)

bshell said:


> What about the radical idea of just leaving the country, and stop paying Fido, and then ignore any bills from them? The current state of EULA (End User Licensing Agreements) with large companies such as Bell, Rogers, Fido, Shaw, etc., while legal, are all completely outrageous in that they are totally one-sided. They are not really contracts, which are meant to be fair to both sides. They are unavoidable agreements that favour the provider in all ways, and strip end-users of all rights completely. It would be impossible for you (or any of us) as individuals to come up with enough money for lawyers to fight such ignominious contracts. The only recourse we have is to simply ignore them.
> 
> What can Rogers (who own Fido) do if you follow this suggested course of action? They can first harass you for money they claim is owed to them. You can ignore this. They can then send your overdue account to a collections agency and then that company will harass you further. You can ignore this as well. It's annoying, but it's not that hard to do. Finally, they can sue you in small claims court. The amount is for $500 so the question is: is it worth it to them to go to all the trouble for this relatively small amount of money? Maybe not. On your side, what is the worst that happens? A note in your credit history that you defaulted on this particular contract? If you are financially secure and you always pay all your bills, then this will not be harmful to your credit status.
> 
> Considering that you are also leaving the country and will be starting fresh someplace else, and you will be in a legal jurisdiction where they can't sue you easily, what is wrong with this plan? You could leave no forwarding address, making it very difficult for them to harass you. If you say it is immoral, then I say the current EULA situation is even more immoral. Few places on earth have more draconian EULA contracts such as we have in Canada. Maybe no places. In addition there's no end to the comments and observations on ehmac.ca about how these companies are charging far too much for the services they provide. If you say that the original poster "owes" Fido $500 for the cost of the phone. I can assure you, Fido recovered those costs probably within the first six months of his contract. There ought to be a law against the way Canadians are gouged by these large robber barons. In the absence of such sensible laws there's only one thing that citizens can do: ignore the EULAs.


Thanks for your post. NIce to hear from someone thinking outside the box! In fact, my gut reaction was the same, and I more or less what I told the "customer relations" agent that i'll pay my bill but that's it - and that in the end i'm not paying the extra fine, as these are unforeseen circumstances and I was offered no other option. I'm also not trying to cheat the system, or profit in any way from it. I don't feel like I owe them a red cent and would give them the phone back if they really wanted it.

Given that I have worked hard at keeping a good credit rating, I didn't consider this as a serious option as I didn't want it effected, especially if I do decide to someday down the road move back. I'm also concerned that somehow this could affect my US credit rating, or they would be able to come after me there.


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## [email protected] (Sep 24, 2007)

They gave you a $700 phone for $200, providing you'd sign an agreement for 3 years to have service. They give you the option of getting out of that agreement for $500 (see how it all adds up)..

I'm not sure what is hard to understand here...

The suggestions other have made of paying the ETF and selling the phone phone to cover that costs makes the most sense.

Most phones are available contract free (including the iPhone since the 3GS launched, in Canada at least)...


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## mpuk (May 24, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> They gave you a $700 phone for $200, providing you'd sign an agreement for 3 years to have service. They give you the option of getting out of that agreement for $500 (see how it all adds up)..
> 
> I'm not sure what is hard to understand here...
> 
> ...


Right, but you're not reading my posts. I was not offered, nor did I have the option to simply buy a phone with no contract in January 2009. This all adds up now nicely if the phone is in fact worth that much money, but that wasn't the point.


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## G-Mo (Sep 26, 2007)

FWIW, I have been seeing 16GB iPhone 3G's selling locally (Toronto) on Craigslist and Kijiji for between $400-500. A sale in that range would leave you out of pocket hardly anything ($50 average?)... Of course, getting someone to take over the contract and including the iPhone for free (or minimal), leaves you out of pocket nothing!


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## mpuk (May 24, 2005)

G-Mo said:


> FWIW, I have been seeing 16GB iPhone 3G's selling locally (Toronto) on Craigslist and Kijiji for between $400-500. A sale in that range would leave you out of pocket hardly anything ($50 average?)... Of course, getting someone to take over the contract and including the iPhone for free (or minimal), leaves you out of pocket nothing!


I sold one on Craigslist last year for $400 in about an hour after posting it! Was a hot commodity indeed and afterwards I was thinking I probably should have asked for more. I still have some time before I need to do something about this, so i'll have to see what works out best.


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## G-Mo (Sep 26, 2007)

mpuk said:


> I sold one on Craigslist last year for $400 in about an hour after posting it! Was a hot commodity indeed and afterwards I was thinking I probably should have asked for more. I still have some time before I need to do something about this, so i'll have to see what works out best.


Of course, no one has asked the question, are you "moving" of your own initiative or because of a job offer that requires you to relocate. If the later, do they have a relocation package? My brother-in-law was moved by his company from the US to NZ a few years ago they paid to buy-out the remaining term on his US cell contract (about 18 months) as part of the condition of the move.


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## mpuk (May 24, 2005)

G-Mo said:


> Of course, no one has asked the question, are you "moving" of your own initiative or because of a job offer that requires you to relocate. If the later, do they have a relocation package? My brother-in-law was moved by his company from the US to NZ a few years ago they paid to buy-out the remaining term on his US cell contract (about 18 months) as part of the condition of the move.


I don't have any relocation package. Dealing with it all on my own!


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

sorry but this



> i'll pay my bill but that's it - and that in the end i'm not paying the extra fine


and this



> I'm also not trying to cheat the system, or profit in any way from it.


are direct contradictions.

as has been mentioned here numerous times, you got a cheap phone in exchange for signing a contract. the provider didn't offer you a no contract phone? too bad....don't sign up with that provider. you are (presumably) an adult who made an agreement... now your circumstances changed and don't find the deal convenient so you are assigning blame to the other party in the agreement and putting forth that the terms should change because you don't "feel" like you owe them a red cent?

what would happen if halfway through your agreement fido doubled your bill. said they "felt" it would be ok...would you complain? yes..you would say you have a contract, and it should be stuck to...same sh1t, different pile 

the concept of taking personal responsibility is lost on people these days


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## Davidb (Jan 15, 2010)

I agree. You think by signing a contract that they owe you a phone? Either take the hit by selling the phone privately, give the phone back, or just skip country and deal with the collectors for 6 months before they give up.


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## mpuk (May 24, 2005)

broad said:


> sorry but this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, you put me in my place, didn't you? I guess I really didn't understand personal responsibility until now. I will certainly run out and pay poor little manipulating Fido $500 today in light of your comments. Thanks so much. (and that goes for you too, Davidb)


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## jimbotelecom (May 29, 2009)

You have probably revealed your cards already - informing them you are moving out of country. If not find a home that is not accessible to Rogers/Fido network and then tell them that you have accepted work where you will be working from this location and that the phone is of little or no use to you. Ask them if they can do anything and they will usually bend and not charge you full termination.


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## mpuk (May 24, 2005)

jimbotelecom said:


> You have probably revealed your cards already - informing them you are moving out of country. If not find a home that is not accessible to Rogers/Fido network and then tell them that you have accepted work where you will be working from this location and that the phone is of little or no use to you. Ask them if they can do anything and they will usually bend and not charge you full termination.


I have, as I really didn't foresee this as an issue. My bell tv account was fine, as was internet and home phone. I'm going to try again, and hope to get an understanding person on the line, and hopefully not have to beg!


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## bshell (Oct 4, 2007)

Moderators may want to use this as a new thread starter as it is a bit off topic.

Don't you think the initial "contract" is totally unfair in the first place? In the contract (and all these present day ridiculous contracts with service providers including banks, cable TV providers, and utilities) the customer basically agrees that THEY (the provider) can change the contract at any time to their benefit. However, the other party in the contract, YOU, can NEVER change things. How is that fair? I say that to be fair and equitable either NEITHER side should be allowed to unilaterally change the agreement or else BOTH sides should be allowed to unilaterally change the agreement. Either this, or when they want to make a change they should end the contract and renegotiate a new one with you. 

In this particular case can't we just view it as mpuk (the customer) unilaterally changing the agreement? He says to Fido (as they say to us regularly, usually once or twice a year): "Oh, by the way, I've decided to change our contract. I will now no longer be paying the $500 early termination fee. Sorry." It's their tough luck. Just like it's our tough luck when they suddenly say, "Oh by the way, text messages, which cost us absolutely nothing to provide, will now cost you 20 cents every time you send OR RECEIVE one, even if you don't solicit them. Sorry." How is mpuk's behaviour any different from Fido/Rogers's? 

Our government should be passing legislation that prevents corporations from engaging in this form of one sided "contract". That's not what a contract should be. IANAL but there must be some principle in common law that forbids this sort of behaviour by corporations. Behaviour that has become so commonplace in the marketplace that many of the posters in this thread are defending it as normal and acceptable. It's not acceptable. We as consumers should rally and do something about it.


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## mpuk (May 24, 2005)

bshell said:


> Moderators may want to use this as a new thread starter as it is a bit off topic.
> 
> Don't you think the initial "contract" is totally unfair in the first place? In the contract (and all these present day ridiculous contracts with service providers including banks, cable TV providers, and utilities) the customer basically agrees that THEY (the provider) can change the contract at any time to their benefit. However, the other party in the contract, YOU, can NEVER change things. How is that fair? I say that to be fair and equitable either NEITHER side should be allowed to unilaterally change the agreement or else BOTH sides should be allowed to unilaterally change the agreement. Either this, or when they want to make a change they should end the contract and renegotiate a new one with you.
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree with you more. As much as I would love to join forces and rally together to try and make some changes, or at least add some exceptions to the rule, at this point I have to choose carefully which battles to fight. I don't have the time, nor is my time worth the money right now. Luckily all the other providers I had service here with were more than understanding, and didn't impose any additional fees for termination of service as they looked at my specific situation. Which is what you would expect, right? The first 3 conversations I had with Fido more or less ended the same way with the "nothing I can do sir" line. 

About 10 minutes ago, with some luck and a more sympathetic agent on the line, I got a $200 reduction off the ETF in 5 minutes on the phone. This is much more realistic now, as I can certainly find someone to buy a lightly used iPhone for $300 in downtown Toronto to recoop the costs. How's that for consistency though?


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

> Moderators may want to use this as a new thread starter as it is a bit off topic.
> 
> Don't you think the initial "contract" is totally unfair in the first place? In the contract (and all these present day ridiculous contracts with service providers including banks, cable TV providers, and utilities) the customer basically agrees that THEY (the provider) can change the contract at any time to their benefit. However, the other party in the contract, YOU, can NEVER change things. How is that fair? I say that to be fair and equitable either NEITHER side should be allowed to unilaterally change the agreement or else BOTH sides should be allowed to unilaterally change the agreement. Either this, or when they want to make a change they should end the contract and renegotiate a new one with you.
> 
> ...


be that as it may (and i agree with you 120% on all the above) that doesn't change the fact that the contract is what it is, and if you don't like it, don't sign it. no one is forcing anyone to sign up for a cell with rogers, fido, bell or telus. if you find the agreement to be unsavoury and slanted against you then don't sign it.

the point i have been attempting to make is that once you *do* agree to something, you can't just back out of it because you "feel" like it. 

much the same way shoplifting drives up the price of goods we buy in a store (the store has to assume an amount of shrink as part of their cost of doing business..the higher that shrink, the more the price of goods is raised to cover), people like our friend mpuk who enter wireless agreements and then back out (causing the carrier to miss revenue) drive the cost of those agreements up for the rest of us.


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## bshell (Oct 4, 2007)

broad said:


> the point i have been attempting to make is that once you *do* agree to something, you can't just back out of it because you "feel" like it.


Except that there's one problem. You say end-users have a choice. No we don't. Realistically, we don't have a choice NOT to have a bank account, NOT to have a credit card, NOT to watch TV, NOT to have a telephone, NOT to have Internet access. It's really not a choice. If someone makes those choices, they basically become a guy living on the street in the Downtown East Side out of a shopping cart. Your choice is: either enter into these terrible one-sided agreements with a handful of giant corporations, or choose not to be a member of modern society. That's not a choice anyone wants to make. Or to be more accurate, out of 2 million people, about 3,000 make that choice to opt out. Most of us don't want to be one of those 3,000. Therefore the laws should favour most of us, not the dozen or so corporations to whom we are beholden.

My point is: those agreements are garbage in the first place. But you don't have a choice, you have to agree to them. One of these days a consumer group is going to challenge one of them and some judge will agree, then hopefully the laws will change.

One of my dreams is to see a group form called something like the "Rogers Customers Union" or something. Once the group gets about 100,000 members, maybe through a Facebook page, then they raise a few thousand bucks to hire a lawyer to write a letter to Rogers saying, "Oh by the way, we're changing our contract with you in the following ways...including free text messaging, elimination of SAF and other bogus fees, and an across the board rate reduction of 10%". These are all very reasonable changes. Rogers then has the same "choice" as us. They can just "choose" to loose 100,000 customers, or they can agree to our new "contract" and still make tons of money off us. What do you think they would choose? Wouldn't that be fun to try?


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

all 3 providers offer pay as you go offerings for cell phones..there are numerous ISPs who offer no contract packages (you just have to buy the modem outright, which turns many off), an OTA antenna will give you many channels of *amazing* looking HDTV for $0.00/month, PC Financial offers "no fee" banking and no one is forcing you to have a credit card...even if you *do* have a credit card it is very easy to go through life with it without incurring a single interest payment...how? dont spend money you dont have. if you have to use it for something (booking a flight, reserving a car or hotel) then pay it off the minute you make the payment...or the next day...

there is a huge gray area between being attached to these companies by the short and curlies and living in a shack like the unabomber...


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## mpuk (May 24, 2005)

broad said:


> be that as it may (and i agree with you 120% on all the above) that doesn't change the fact that the contract is what it is, and if you don't like it, don't sign it. no one is forcing anyone to sign up for a cell with rogers, fido, bell or telus. if you find the agreement to be unsavoury and slanted against you then don't sign it.
> 
> the point i have been attempting to make is that once you *do* agree to something, you can't just back out of it because you "feel" like it.
> 
> much the same way shoplifting drives up the price of goods we buy in a store (the store has to assume an amount of shrink as part of their cost of doing business..the higher that shrink, the more the price of goods is raised to cover), people like our friend mpuk who enter wireless agreements and then back out (causing the carrier to miss revenue) drive the cost of those agreements up for the rest of us.


Look, "friend"...talk about contradictions..."I agree with you 120%..." then you proceed to say "that doesn't change the fact that the contract is what it is, and if you don't like it, don't sign it". How do you agree with what bshell has to say, when he is in essence saying that these contracts are all BS, when from your comments - you seem to be in bed with these providers an would give your right nut before you argued a charge? 

Again, you're right. I just *felt* like dropping out of a 3 year commitment and was asking if anyone had any sneaky ways of doing so, as I should be made an example of. Comment on a thread you can actually add something constructive to.


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## mpuk (May 24, 2005)

In the end, these companies provide a product that they know customers will pay more for, be it HD tv, a new groundbreaking phone, or new technology and this is their way of getting the most profit, without putting it right on the price tag. It is no matter how you look at it, gouging the customer, and corporate greed. They do it, because they know they can. Why do they need to play nice guy, when you're going to buy their product regardless?


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

just because you don't agree with what i have to say doesn't mean my comments aren't accurate....several other posters in here (who obviously have a sense of responsibility) have agreed with me

also, my comments above are totally not a contradiction. i am not supporting rogers' contracts or methods at all, i am more making a comment on your apparent lack of responsibility. it could be a rogers contract or an agreement with a stripper to pay her after your lap dance is done...the point remains the same...when you make an agreement, you honour it


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## mpuk (May 24, 2005)

broad said:


> just because you don't agree with what i have to say doesn't mean my comments aren't accurate....several other posters in here (who obviously have a sense of responsibility) have agreed with me
> 
> also, my comments above are totally not a contradiction. i am not supporting rogers' contracts or methods at all, i am more making a comment on your apparent lack of responsibility. it could be a rogers contract or an agreement with a stripper to pay her after your lap dance is done...the point remains the same...when you make an agreement, you honour it


I don't disagree with honoring agreements, its that there are always exceptions to the rules.

If you have a stroke during a lapdance, would you expect to see the stripper at your bedside (assuming you wake up) saying, "umm...you still owe me $20..."?

Why does ETF not apply to someone who dies during their contract? Its also an exception. A beneficiary should not have to take over a cell phone because iPhones are hot and have crazy new never heard of before contracts, right? Why should someone leaving their service area not be an exception? 

Bshell: if you create a group or union, sign me up.


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## whatiwant (Feb 21, 2008)

broad said:


> ...when you make an agreement, you honour it


Which providers do not, making the entire idea of a contract complete BS. 

I think the most offensive thing I find as a consumer is that in order to get fair pricing on pretty much *anything* from furniture, to electronics, to cable contracts, to cars, we have to haggle. It speaks to the opportunistic nature of business in general, but that's opening a whole can of worms that I don't want to even delve into.

I think that's what I respect about Apple actually. The "this is the price for the computer" mentality. Sure, you can get a hundred bucks off here or there, or get a refurb, but the price is set.


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## bshell (Oct 4, 2007)

jawknee said:


> I think the most offensive thing I find as a consumer is that in order to get fair pricing on pretty much *anything* from furniture, to electronics, to cable contracts, to cars, we have to haggle. It speaks to the opportunistic nature of business in general, but that's opening a whole can of worms that I don't want to even delve into.


You hit the nail on the head Johnny. They should teach haggling to kids in grade school. It has become the way of the world, thanks to these stupid contracts. 

And look what happened in mpuk's case: he ended up haggling (after 3 or 4 calls) and finally got Fido to budge by a full $200, making his contract termination reasonable. But how many people would do this? In school we need to teach our children how, so that EVERYONE learns to haggle. It's the only way if you don't want to be screwed all the time.

And to Broad: yes, I do all the things you say in your previous post. OTA digital TV is mind-boggling especially with a home-made Gray-Hoverman antenna as constructed from instructions on Digital Home. I virtually never pay interest on credit card debt (but I still have to agree to their outrageous contracts), and I have found ways to do my banking relatively cheaply, and as for your other points, you are totally correct but I still say we are forced to accept these ridiculous agreements and the alternatives are not that attractive.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

> as for your other points, you are totally correct but I still say we are forced to accept these ridiculous agreements and the alternatives are not that attractive.


???

"you know what you're right, but im still going to disagree with you"

obviously rational thought and logic have no place in this thread, so with that...i'm out. good luck with life!


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## Pat712 (Jul 21, 2010)

mpuk said:


> In short, i'm moving out of the country, and apparently am in the start of year 2 of 3 of a contract with Fido for my iPhone. Since you can't get an iPhone without a contract, I had no choice but to sign up, either way - not knowing that I would be moving during the contract period.



I had a friend who got out of his contract by saying that he was moving to Nunavut; to some area where his carrier (rogers I think) did not offer coverage...


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