# Boycott Comwave - and get a CDN iPhone



## antoszm (Nov 17, 2007)

This stupid little VOIP company is screwing the whole nation because they're fighting with Apple over the iPhone name... even though they filed the name 8 months after Apple.
I leave this for your interpretation and comments.


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## JumboJones (Feb 21, 2001)

I wouldn't go as far as screwing up the whole nation, we survived without the Apple iPhone for this long, what's a little longer? I'm sure manufacturers love your enthusiasm for consumption though, because having an iPhone is obviously a necessity now.


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## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

Wow, way to stick up for the little guy.

Comwave has the legal right to the name (at least for now). Why should they buckle for Apple's sake? Why doesn't Apple come up with a name of their own (didn't they buy the right to the name from someone else in the US?)?

Whether you like them or not, Comwave isn't the reason we don't have the hardware in Canada.


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## keebler27 (Jan 5, 2007)

wow. the next thing you're going to tell us is that you're going to take your ball & bat and then leave the diamond.

lol i hope your post is a joke b/c it sounds incredibly immature.

you want an iphone? drive to the US...


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## MacGYVER (Apr 15, 2005)

Macified said:


> Wow, way to stick up for the little guy.
> 
> Comwave has the legal right to the name (at least for now). Why should they buckle for Apple's sake? Why doesn't Apple come up with a name of their own (didn't they buy the right to the name from someone else in the US?)?
> 
> Whether you like them or not, Comwave isn't the reason we don't have the hardware in Canada.


First of all, most people in this forum, which are many didn't know who Comwave was and that they had the name iPhone as their own here in Canada. That should tell you something about the name iPhone. Also, most of the public has no clue who Comwave is when you mention the iPhone to them.

Apple once again has made an iconic device that when you say "iPhone" almost everyone will say oh yeah the cell phone from Apple, they won't be saying oh yeah that little VOIP company in Toronto, Canada. That's the difference here. Everyone knows out there in the world that Apple has branded the "i" in front of their devices or tools. iMac, iTunes, iPod, iPhone, iPhoto, iLife etc. even people who don't know anything about Apple, know about the iPhone.

The point is, when Apple uses the name "iPhone" everyone on the planet can visualize and identify with the name. Hardly anyone if anyone at all can relate to Comwave when using the name "iPhone". That's the difference, and Conwave screwed up by picking a poor name that is not recognized by the millions in Canada. They knew what they were doing when they picked the name, and perhaps they will be able to keep it, but they will never, ever get the recognition by using that name "iPhone".


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## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

How on earth did Comwave screw up by picking the name iPhone. Nobody knew them and now they do. Seems to have worked. 

I will restate my point. Comwave owns the right to the name. They are under no obligation to sell it to Apple just because Apple has a more fitting product. That would be like calling the windows in your home portals just because "Windows" as a software product curries such interest.

---------

"I have to go clean my windows."

"Oh, did you get a virus?"

"No, I have to go clean my windows."


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## 5andman (Oct 15, 2006)

Doesn't make a difference. Rogers isn't going to carry the iPhone any time soon.


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

Macified said:


> That would be like calling the windows in your home portals just because "Windows" as a software product curries such interest.


Curiously, Microsoft did attempt to litigate in the word Windows, but lost because of "prior use", and the fact that they didn't invent the GUI anyways, they had either ripped of Apple, Xerox, or both...

The name issue is not what is keeping the iPhone from Canada. Apple could easily rename it to something else, just like you can't have Google's "GMAIL" as a brand in England because another company already uses it. Apple has been repeatedly sued by Apple Records over the years, but they still make Apples. (Farmers also had the right of "prior use", based on the trademark issued to Johnny Appleseed.)

I think Rogers is holding back because they have cut some deal with Microsoft, and they are trying to con people into buying Windows CE based phones instead. I see the ads all the time, so they must be getting a decent kickback from the Evil Empire, because really, if they actually brought the iPhone out here, they'd make tons of money simply based on demand. People would even subscribe to Rogers just for the iPhone, even though their service is kind of crummy.


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## satchmo (May 26, 2005)

Macified said:


> How on earth did Comwave screw up by picking the name iPhone. Nobody knew them and now they do. Seems to have worked.


They may in the long run win financially (if they settle with Apple).
Sure people know who they are...but it's not a nice picture of them. Public *perception* is that they were the roadblock that prevented the iPhone from coming to Canada (if this indeed the reason).

The reality is that Apple legal should have registered the name earlier. But people will only see this small company holding out for money. Yes, they may have an appropriate product, but I stress again...the perception is anything "i" is Apple's domain.

Has Comwave increased sales from this increased attention? Don't know. Have they endeared themselves to the general public? My opinion is no.


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## ruffdeezy (Mar 17, 2008)

antoszm said:


> This stupid little VOIP company is screwing the whole nation because they're fighting with Apple over the iPhone name... even though they filed the name 8 months after Apple.
> I leave this for your interpretation and comments.


they were just trying to get some free press and brand recognition by using the famous apple "i" before everything. they should give it up.


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## BikerRob (Sep 19, 2007)

Not sure what the big deal is here ... I got my iPhone from ebay ... it arrived today, it's already set up and running on Rogers ... I've made calls, am connected via my wireless home network ... tickled pink ... my part of the country isn't screwed over by Comwave or Apple ... not sure what the big deal is at all here.


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## Malco (Apr 18, 2003)

I've done ads for Comwave. Most of them had nothing to do with iPhone or VOIP. They are not a "VOIP company" any more than Bell is.

I have their iPhone logo in Illustrator EPS here on this Mac.

I have to tell you when I first saw the logo the last company that popped into my head was Apple. My thoughts were along the lines of "Great, another silly iBrand just like all the eBrands from the nineties."

BTW Cisco's iPhone brand dates from March 20, 1996.
The world heard about iMacs on May 6, 1998.


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

antoszm said:


> This stupid little VOIP company is screwing the whole nation because they're fighting with Apple over the iPhone name... even though they filed the name 8 months after Apple.
> I leave this for your interpretation and comments.


ig·no·rance –noun
The state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.
The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed. 

Yup. That pretty well sums up your post.


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## allanyong (Jan 22, 2006)

I know Comwave. I know their iphone three years ago. 

Not bad customer service


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

If Apple really really really cared about the Canadian market. I mean really cared, they would be here by now. Why would they go to court in Canada when there are more lucrative markets elsewhere for less of a fight. Canada has only 30 million people. Many cities around the world have more people than all of Canada.


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## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

Adrian. said:


> Many cities around the world have more people than all of Canada.


Apparently someone failed geography class. The largest city on this planet is Mumbai, with 13.6 million people. Second largest is Karachi, with 12.13 million people. Maybe you meant the other Earth.

Canada could be a lucrative market, if there was adequate competition with GSM. The only real competition to Rogers in Canada is Bell/Telus, who have decent rates for data. At this point, it would seem that the only way to get decent GSM data rates in Canada will be a third party with their own infrastructure.


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## The Shadow (Oct 28, 2006)

antoszm said:


> This stupid little VOIP company is screwing the whole nation because they're fighting with Apple over the iPhone name... even though they filed the name 8 months after Apple.
> I leave this for your interpretation and comments.


Easy there, Skippy.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Ultimately, IF the name dispute ever went to court, I believe ComWave would lose. Not because they don't have enough lawyers, but because the whole basis of the product name capitalises on the popularity of APPLE'S "i" branding. IOW, Apple can make the case that ComWave SOUGHT to cause brand confusion.

It would be infuriating if ComWave was the only thing stopping the iPhone from coming to Canada, but in the meantime, the US iPhone + unlock + Fido thing seems to work exceptionally well (except for the price of data plans).


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## (( p g )) (Aug 17, 2002)

chas_m said:


> Ultimately, IF the name dispute ever went to court, I believe ComWave would lose. Not because they don't have enough lawyers, but because the whole basis of the product name capitalises on the popularity of APPLE'S "i" branding. IOW, Apple can make the case that ComWave SOUGHT to cause brand confusion.


That would be a good point if only it were true. Just a handful of years ago, the owners of what is now iBiz were paid an undisclosed sum by Apple to acquire the rights to "iWork." No one can lay claim to a letter of the alphabet, no matter how badly fanboys might wish otherwise. 



chas_m said:


> It would be infuriating if ComWave was the only thing stopping the iPhone from coming to Canada, but in the meantime, the US iPhone + unlock + Fido thing seems to work exceptionally well (except for the price of data plans).


It's outrageous! A small company had the _gall_ to secure the Canadian rights to the iPhone name at a time when Apple's only public venture into the telephone business was the incredibly forgettable Motorola ROKR. Indeed, the courts ought to find that it is their fault that they registered the name before Apple did, especially since Apple is *notorious* for leaking information about its future products years ahead of schedule. Small companies should just give up what is legally theirs when larger, well financed companies muscle in. Because getting our iPhones is more important than the rule of law.


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## Trevor... (Feb 21, 2003)

Back a decade ago Apple was going with the flow on the "i" for internet trend, I was at an Apple event very shortly after the annoucement of the iMac in 1998 with a lengthy explaination of the iMac internet nomenclature and how consumers had come to associate the "i" prefix with internet devices positioning the iMac within the exisiting consumer paradigm blah blah blah.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

(( p g )) said:


> That would be a good point if only it were true. Just a handful of years ago, the owners of what is now iBiz were paid an undisclosed sum by Apple to acquire the rights to "iWork." No one can lay claim to a letter of the alphabet, no matter how badly fanboys might wish otherwise.


I didn't say Apple could lay claim to a letter of the alphabet, reading-comprehension-challenged-boy.

I said Apple could make the case that ComWave was deliberately trying to create brand confusion. I think that point stands, but neither you nor I are state judges so IF this ever goes to court we'll just have to see what they think.



> It's outrageous! A small company had the _gall_ to secure the Canadian rights to the iPhone name at a time when Apple's only public venture into the telephone business was the incredibly forgettable Motorola ROKR. Indeed, the courts ought to find that it is their fault that they registered the name before Apple did, especially since Apple is *notorious* for leaking information about its future products years ahead of schedule. Small companies should just give up what is legally theirs when larger, well financed companies muscle in. Because getting our iPhones is more important than the rule of law.


If you think any of this is said or even inferred in my post, you -- to be blunt -- should see a mental health professional.


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## Malco (Apr 18, 2003)

Well none of us are lawyers, or at least will admit to being one.

The benchmark for IP lawsuits is will a reasonable consumer be confused to the extent that they believe the "infringing" brand is a brand of the "established" brand's owner.

As I have previously posted the thought never crossed my mind that Comwave's iPhone was an Apple product. Case closed.


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## psxp (May 23, 2006)

Macified said:


> Wow, way to stick up for the little guy.
> 
> Whether you like them or not, Comwave isn't the reason we don't have the hardware in Canada.


Very True IMHO.

You dont need an iPhone, buy a BB, and *help out* local industry


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## mactogog4 (Jan 20, 2006)

For what its worth, early on I tried to use Comwave as a VOIP provider and the whole experience was horrible.

From customer service reps who barely speak any English (which is not a problem, we all need to have a job, but when they try to crew you, and don't pay attention, thats a problem), to actually lying to consumers, this company does something no one should do....

Over promise and under deliver !

I have heard hundreds of complaints similar to mine and to be honest I would not recommend them to anyone, not just because of the iPhone name issue, but simply because of their service !

They billed me for services I didn't request, they promised the adapter will arrive in 5 business days, 10 days later when I called, they told me it would be another 12 days, 22 days later, still no adapter, but they did have the nerve to bill me for a months service.

I can keep on giving examples if anyone else is interested !


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## (( p g )) (Aug 17, 2002)

chas_m said:


> I didn't say Apple could lay claim to a letter of the alphabet, reading-comprehension-challenged-boy.


LOL. I guess you just meant something entirely different when you said...



chas_m said:


> but because the whole basis of the product name capitalises on the popularity of APPLE'S "i" branding.


The basis of your branding argument hinges on jamming that particular letter in front of a noun and saying "voila...an exclusively Apple brand." From a marketing standpoint, Apple's practice is clever, but legally, it's a grey area insofar as what happens where there is proof of prior ownership of said brand. But hey stick with the name-calling gameplan if you feel that works for you. 

I offered the iBiz/iWork example to illustrate: 

- when there is a previously claim to a so-called "i" branded name, Apple behaves just like any other corporate citizen and can choose either buy the rights or fight it out (worth noting that they tend to choose the buying option, so I guess Apple's legal beagles don't check here for advice). 

- even when Apple *does* settle with a company to acquire an "i" prefixed brand, they apparently have no quarrel with that company from continuing to name their products with that nomenclature (otherwise, there would be no iBiz or iBank). 



chas_m said:


> I said Apple could make the case that ComWave was deliberately trying to create brand confusion. I think that point stands, but neither you nor I are state judges so IF this ever goes to court we'll just have to see what they think.


The brand confusion argument will be a tough one to sell in this case because of the timing. Comwave maintains they were using this name prior to October 2004, which was the basis of their October 2005 application to block. The gist (as it has been reported) is that Comwave could win their case simply by proving it has used the name since June 2004. Also worth noting that Comwave would not have known at that time just how serious Apple was about launching their own phone (as I pointed out, the Motorola ROKR was the extent of their activity in the marketplace as of Fall 2005), so it's highly doubtful that there is evidence to support the notion that they deliberately set out at that time to create brand confusion. 

Having said all of that...

If were to speculate, Comwave's mistake is that they're being overly stubborn asking Apple for too much money in exchange for surrendering the Canadian rights to the name. Apple could drag this thing on for years in court and I doubt that would be something a small company like Comwave would want to have to fork out money to do. 



chas_m said:


> If you think any of this is said or even inferred in my post, you -- to be blunt -- should see a mental health professional.


Friend, you slay me with you wit, really. I'd applaud you if only my straightjacket were loosened just a wee bit. In fairness, that last para ought not to have been directed squarely at you, but rather at the absurd arguments in aggregate in this thread, blasting Comwave for allegedly standing in the way of the iPhone. Be infuriated if you want, but Comwave apparently feels they have a case against Apple. And I would much rather see respect for the law and for due process in this case than to have one company just roll right over the trademark rights of another.


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## Malco (Apr 18, 2003)

John Clay said:


> The largest city on this planet is Mumbai, with 13.6 million people. Second largest is Karachi, with 12.13 million people.


Toronto is a twin "city" with the municipality of Chongqing China.

You may not call it a city but it does have a mayor.

Chongqing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

TheStar.com | World | Mayor of Chongqing a 'pragmatic' promoter

Still smaller than Canada though.


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## CaptainCode (Jun 4, 2006)

I don't think anyone disputes that Comwave came out with an actual marketable product called iPhone before Apple did. From what I remember, there have been rumors of an Apple phone going on 10 years or at least a long time. Maybe someone can come up with the timeline but I remember people calling the Apple phone the iPhone long before it actually came out. It seems to me that the rumors of the Apple iPhone were going on for quite a while before the Comwave iPhone VOIP came out. 

Yes Comwave is legally the winner here because they filed for the trademark before but I don't know if they really came up with the name themselves based on the old rumors existing a long time ago.


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## macfalls (Feb 29, 2008)

more than a little off topic ... but seeing as i have been a faithful apple user and supporter for over 8 years i still don't understand what the "i" stands for. i used to think it was "individual" or "internet" since the who selling thing when the imac first dropped the commericals were all about how it was open the box, plug it in then click and you are on the net ... simple.

what does it really mean ?

ok, now back on topic ..... can't apple just pull a bush thing and slightly alter the name of the product. in canada there was a band that used the name bush, so then the more popular bush just added an X onto the name. it was later resolved but bush-x making a donation to a charity and then the other bush allowing them to drop the x. so couldn't apple just call it the " apple phone" here or doing a sony thing and call it the "iphone2" since that wouldn't be an issue seeing as they added a suffix to things. and technically it would be the next gen of the iphone anyway so the 2 would work.

just my thoughts.


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## Malco (Apr 18, 2003)

YouTube - The First iMac Introduction


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## JumboJones (Feb 21, 2001)

How about eyePhone, you can wear a patch and talk like a pirate too if you like.


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## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

JumboJones said:


> How about eyePhone, you can wear a patch and talk like a pirate too if you like.


Garrrr! Now there be a crackin' idear.


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