# Winter tire recommendations



## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

What winter tires are fellow ehMaccers going to ride on this year? Which tires have you been riding on in the past and which ones do you recommend?

I've been highly considerring General Altimax Winters as they seem to be well suited for the wet winters with snow cover maybe 3 weeks a years if it's really bad, temperature drops below freezing less than 25% of the time, and occasional dry pavement driving is expected. I can get them for $500 installed and balanced on my Corolla. I've also looked at Continental but they're pricey, and Nokians seem to be overkill for Vancouver weather. They offered Hankook W403 winters for about $400 but I can hardly find any information on them.


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## gastonbuffet (Sep 23, 2004)

Winter tires in Vancouver????????? Save your money!


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

"All-season" tire rubber lose their grip below 7C. Their tread design will still handle dry and wet pavement with little problems because of the tread design. All season tires are good with snow so long as it's above 7C. Repeat the last sentence a few times and tell me what's wrong with it. When snow hits Vancouver, When snow does hit to Vancouver, the entire city is crippled because of the fact that we're a city built on steep hills and mountains. Go onto Youtube and search for Seattle snow drivers and see the result of what happens in Vancouver as well. The last 3 years we've had snow stick around for over 2 weeks and here's the cycle, our snowfall is wet and heavy to begin with. I'm not going to be stuck in the snow this year... Besides I'll enjoy the extra bit of traction when it's like 1 C outside and wet wet wet.


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## MLeh (Dec 23, 2005)

I'm getting Nokians based upon a recommendation of a friend who drives the same vehicle as I do (4WD Highlander). Winter rated, but can stay on all four seasons, and a good compromise tread design for avoiding hydro-planing when it rains. Combined with the 4WD and non-aggressive driving habits I hope I'll be happy & relatively safe with these.

Generally the only driving I do is across the mountains to the prairies, five or six times a year (rest of the time I do the 30 second 'down the stairs' commute and seldom use this vehicle for errands around town). I like to have a good grip for the mountain passes which can see snow pretty much any time of the year. I don't think I would have sprung for the price if I were putting on a lot of commuting miles in mostly rain.


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## gwillikers (Jun 19, 2003)

Nokian.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Bridgestone Blizzak tires are great for my Toyota Echo in the St.John's winters, which run from late Nov. until early May. They can handle the snow, ice and especially deep slush which is our typical road condition.


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## RicktheChemist (Jul 18, 2001)

.


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## Chris (Feb 8, 2001)

I've been using a set of Cooper tires from November until early April, here in Eastern Ontario, and they've been pretty good. Good grip on both ice and snow, and, aside from a bit of road noise, solid on dry, cold pavement. Wear has not been excessive, and the treads look almost new after 4 full winters of use.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

I use Hankook W411 tires -- two winters with these and a third to come. Exceptional traction and control. I've put over a years' (12+ months) worth of driving on these tires and I can hardly tell the tires have lost any of their tread life. And, they're _cheap_.

2005 Mazda3.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"A high cost tire but very very worth. My dad swears by these tires in our heavy snowfall winters. Such a soft rubber that they do wear down quickly thou." This is true, RtC. I have been told that one should NOT use these tires if half worn down. I bought mine new, and I only put on about 5000km from Nov until I get them taken off in late April.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Chris said:


> I've been using a set of Cooper tires from November until early April, here in Eastern Ontario, and they've been pretty good. Good grip on both ice and snow, and, aside from a bit of road noise, solid on dry, cold pavement. Wear has not been excessive, and the treads look almost new after 4 full winters of use.


How much did they cost you and where can I find them?

Yea the Nokian WR are winter rated but can be left all year round so I heard but I plan to get 17" or 18" rims with good performance tires come March so I'd rather have some proper winter only tires on my stock wheels.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

dona83 said:


> Yea the Nokian WR are winter rated but can be left all year round so I heard...


All winter tires can be left on all year round. But you're throwing your money away if you do. Winter tires wear faster in warmer temperatures, wear unevenly, and negatively damage vehicle performance, acceleration, braking, and control.

Don't do it. 

Unless it's rated "all season" or "summer performance," don't drive with them between May - Late October. (Depending on when you get snow.)


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## MLeh (Dec 23, 2005)

Lars said:


> Unless it's rated "all season" or "summer performance," don't drive with them between May - Late October. (Depending on when you get snow.)


Please see note regarding high mountain passes. I'm driving to Alberta this weekend and I fully expect to see snow on either or both the Coquihalla (1700 meters) and Roger's Pass.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

People tend to give bad advice when they have never dealt with a western Canadian winter.

I wouldn't pay much attention to advice on winter tires given from experience in the centre of the universe.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

SINC said:


> People tend to give bad advice when they have never dealt with a western Canadian winter.
> 
> I wouldn't pay much attention to advice on winter tires given from experience in the centre of the universe.


I dunno if I would pay attention to the advice of people living here either lol, I was in Calgary getting a ride from a coworker and her car's All-seasons was embarrassingly slipping and sliding all over the place.

South coast BC is not like most of western Canada... most of the time we can get away with using All seasons but when snow comes we're just oh for the love of ____ SOL.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

SINC said:


> People tend to give bad advice when they have never dealt with a western Canadian winter.
> 
> I wouldn't pay much attention to advice on winter tires given from experience in the centre of the universe.


I come from the East coast, which has winters Toronto has never matched.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Lars said:


> I come from the East coast, which has winters Toronto has never matched.


Nothing personal Lars. 

But the same applies to the east coast. You just don't have to deal with -30 and -40 temperatures, thus those who have never experienced such a winter are ill prepared to offer advice on winter tires for use in many parts of BC, AB, SK, MB and northern ON.


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## Gerbill (Jul 1, 2003)

Not a good idea to wear out expensive snow tires during periods of rain or dry roads (ie most of the time in SW BC winter) Good quality all-seasons are the way to go. If you MUST have snows, make a set of new wheels part of the project and just mount them when needed. My 2¢.


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## gwillikers (Jun 19, 2003)

After hearing the glowing reviews from some friends about the Nokian (severe weather rated) tires, I went and talked to the owner of a Kal Tire nearby. He informed me that he has those same tires on the vehicles of his entire extended family.

I've had them installed on my wife's Civic, and my daughters VW GTI, and they love them. The Nokian tires have proved themselves on the steep hill leading up to our condo development. Dozens of cars parked at the bottom after the snow flies, but no problem for us. They're a superior rain tire too.

I'd have put them on my truck, but Nokian doesn't make an appropriate tire for my Tacoma 4x4. I've got some very good Bridgestone Revo Duellers on it though. Wacky weather doesn't scare us anymore.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

How does the cost of Nokian tires compare to other winter tires? How much more expensive are they?


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## gwillikers (Jun 19, 2003)

SINC said:


> How does the cost of Nokian tires compare to other winter tires? How much more expensive are they?


Over $700.00 total, after all is said and done for 4 tires balanced and aligned. We got a bit of a discount through my work. Think, $750.00.

They're not cheap, that's for sure.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Here in St.John's, where we get as severe winter weather as you shall see anywhere in Canada, the Nokian (severe weather rated) tires are rated the best if you have to drive in/out of the city during major storms. For me, if there is the threat of a major storm, or after a major storm, my car is sitting in the driveway. However, from those who must travel and don't have this option, I hear that the Nokian (severe weather rated) tires are the best.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Gerbill said:


> Not a good idea to wear out expensive snow tires during periods of rain or dry roads (ie most of the time in SW BC winter) Good quality all-seasons are the way to go. If you MUST have snows, make a set of new wheels part of the project and just mount them when needed. My 2¢.


It's attitudes like that that slow our roads down to half the posted speed limit in harmless snow. It took me 3 hours to get home from Vancouver to Mission when it snowed.

Winter rubber has about the same hardness in cold weather as summer tires do in hot weather. That does not wear the tires down any faster. It's keeping winter tires above 10C that wears them out.


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## MACenstein'sMonster (Aug 21, 2008)

My wife and I have considered winter tires but nah. Saskatchewan gets the cold, snow, and ice as good as anybody and I only know of a few people who switch to a "winter" tire.
IMO, when it comes to typical city driving, slowing down and giving yourself a little more time to get where you're going will help as much as any tire modifications. I'm almost certain that some people throw on winter tires in an attempt to compensate for their inability to drive with a bit of caution.
The vehicle's weight distribution, ground clearance, and front wheel drive vs wheel drive are other important considerations for winter driving especially during severe conditions. I can still remember the mother of all snow storms about 8 years ago the day before Thanksgiving (I believe). Threw a bunch of wet snow in the back of my old half ton (equipped with "all season" tires) and drove across the city without issue. I'm sure there were smaller, light weight vehicles that struggled even with their winter tires.
And if it's really icy? Don't go out if you don't need to. Common sense can really help in severe conditions  

Now if you're talking bikes then look at this guy:










I would suggest a *studded* knobby tire and a safe path for travel. I've used summer bike tires but that was a mild winter. Oh man, the crazy weather I've biked in. Locked my bike up at work one day after digging through the snow to find the bike stand :lmao:


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Sure, my 91 Corolla did fine in the snow for the most part on All Seasons as long as I kept 4 seconds in front of me but hills were a real killer and there are no shortage of hills in Vancouver.


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## Gerbill (Jul 1, 2003)

dona83 said:


> It's attitudes like that that slow our roads down to half the posted speed limit in harmless snow. It took me 3 hours to get home from Vancouver to Mission when it snowed.
> 
> Winter rubber has about the same hardness in cold weather as summer tires do in hot weather. That does not wear the tires down any faster. It's keeping winter tires above 10C that wears them out.


Well, do what you want, it's your money. I live in the same region as you do, and have lived and driven all my life in Western Canada, so my advice should perhaps have a little more weight than the wisdom emanating from the centre of the universe.


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## MLeh (Dec 23, 2005)

I'll throw my experiences into the fray ...

I grew up in Calgary, and growing up we always had 'summer tires' for summer and 'snow tires' for winter, especially as we had rear wheel drive vehicles. 

(And every winter I would witness all the accidents that happened with the first snow storm in Calgary. People need to slow down and allow much longer stopping distances no matter where they are.)

Switching from summer to snow tires changed when I got my first front wheel drive car, with manual transmission. I could go anywhere in that car, in any weather condition, using good all-season tires. The key was FWD and knowing how to drive.

We moved out to the west coast, and I learnt a few things about the differences between prairie winter and coastal winter, and the different types of snow that are encountered here.

The number one difference is the wetness and heaviness of the snow. When it snows in the lower mainland the temperature is usually just around freezing, and the snow is VERY heavy and VERY wet. It packs into ice very quickly. Think of making a snow ball. West coast snow is very good for snowballs, whereas prairie snow is very dry and doesn't compact at all well. And that makes a lot of difference in traction. 

Secondly - there are hills in the lower mainland. Other parts of the world, they call them 'mountains'. Going up a hill on wet compacted snow is an art. You want to drop the car into second gear and just gently drive up the hill. First is too torquey and you'll just spin out. Unfortunately too many people drive automatics which don't have any options for selecting the gear ratio. The result is that they 'power up' the hill - creating lovely compacted ice paths from the heat of their spinning tires.

Coming down the hills is something completely different. All I can say is "Thank God for ABS". The snow packs up the tread in the tires in one rotation and if you lock up your wheels ... it's a sleigh ride down to the bottom of the hill (mountain). That said - I have never ended up in a ditch, nor hit another vehicle, although I do maintain that the hardest part of driving in the lower mainland during a snowstorm is avoiding the people who don't know how to drive in snow ...

If I were driving _only_ in the lower mainland, and driving a Front Wheel drive vehicle with manual transmission - I would stick to All Seasons. Otherwise: All seasons and stay home for the 3 hours that the snow is on the ground.

As it is ... Nokian G2s for me


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

MLeh said:


> Nokian G2s for me.


THANK YOU! Exactly the tire I was looking for!!!

I don't have ABS but I have mastered the art of pumping my brakes. Unfortunately the brain tends to want to slam on the brakes in emergency braking situations so the best thing to do is to prevent these situations in the first place... Keep your distance!!!


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

MACenstein'sMonster said:


> I'm almost certain that some people throw on winter tires in an attempt to compensate for their inability to drive with a bit of caution.


Incorrect, using winter tires increases safety in a vehicle. If you take 2 people who drive the same, one with winter and one without, the one with winter tires will be able to stop / start more safely and efficiently and will have better handling. You are making an assumption that winter tires turn people into F1 racers...not true.



> Threw a bunch of wet snow in the back of my old half ton (equipped with "all season" tires) and drove across the city without issue.


You're not comparing apples to apples; all-season radials for a truck offer a fairly wide and deep tread that are far greater than that of a car so a fair comparison cannot be made. True, the rubber in winter tires are softer to increase grip but an all season truck tread is far more aggressive than that of a car.

I used the Canadian Tire WinterTrac on my old SIR and they are awesome! Buy them when they are "Buy 1 Get one 1/2 Off" and you are golden! These tires are made by Michelin.


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## MACenstein'sMonster (Aug 21, 2008)

RunTheWorldOnMac said:


> Incorrect, using winter tires increases safety in a vehicle. If you take 2 people who drive the same, one with winter and one without, the one with winter tires will be able to stop / start more safely and efficiently and will have better handling. You are making an assumption that winter tires turn people into F1 racers...not true.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


(1) I am certain that driving with a reasonable degree of caution has gotten more people through the winter than using winter tires. If you feel you need them, that's fine. In some exceptional conditions it just makes sense. Some people, like the majority I know, have managed for years with out. I'm not arguing which is safer, just making a point that common sense is still the best first line of defense and will likely be enough for most people who use it.

(2) You're assuming *that some people* put winter tires on their vehicles and don't become F1 drivers. Not knowing what kind of tires they are using I see plenty of people drive on icy streets like it's actually summer in their world. I think my assumption is a good one.

(3) I wasn't comparing fruit. I was just saying that some vehicles can handle severe winter driving conditions better than others, with or with out special tires because they have other advantages.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Honda Ridgelines (4WD trucks)
YouTube - Winter Tire Demonstration - Module 2 of 6

RWDs
YouTube - Winter Tire Demonstration - Module 3 of 6

Small FWDs
YouTube - Winter Tire Demonstration - Module 5 of 6

ADAC Test 2006
YouTube - ADAC Probe of the Winter Tires for the 2006 Season

Sorry there's no comparison. Winter tires are not an excuse to drive like F1 drivers, but hey we all need to get places whether it's dry, wet, or under a foot of snow out, and I think just the extra safety power is enough reason to invest in winter tires.


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## MACenstein'sMonster (Aug 21, 2008)

dona83 said:


> Honda Ridgelines (4WD trucks)
> YouTube - Winter Tire Demonstration - Module 2 of 6
> 
> RWDs
> ...


Again, I wasn't arguing the merits of winter tires but not everyone needs them to feel safe.


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## iJohnHenry (Mar 29, 2008)

Living all around, or in, the GTA all my life, and I don't recall ever having snow tires.

Maybe once, on an old junker I bought, mainly because I think it already had them on. 

What the Hell, for $100, an old '54 flat-head Ford.


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

Hmmm problem with having snow tires at least here in the GTA is that even though you have them the character that is stuck and blocking your way doesn't.....

This year I am going to install winter tires even though for 99% of the driving I do the Bridgestone all season tires have worked out fine. It's that 1% of the time where I just don't want to get stuck. Last winter I drove the wife's car which does have winter tires and I never got stuck that 1% of the time. 

So this year it will be the Canadian Tire Nordic tires which are made by Goodyear. Not bad deals when they are on sale.

But yeah we don't even come close to the type of winters I've seen in Newfoundland.....

Kevin


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## Macinguelph (Oct 27, 2007)

Winter tires, no matter where in Canada you live, and for that matter, no matter what make you choose are going to give you better traction in the winter without a doubt. 
All season tires in this country are really 3 season tires (for those of us lucky enough to actually get 3 seasons). When the temp. drops below 7 degrees C, a winter tire with it's softer rubber and silica compound and better siping allowing more tread movement for heat build up, give better traction on dry, wet icy or snowy roads. All season tires are a compromise tire that try to do a little of everything nut do not specialize in any particular area. A winter tire is made only for winter and nothing else. What would you rather be driving on? 

In addition, the purchase of 4 winter tires helps to expand the longevity of your summer tires as they are only being run 6-8 months of the year. The danger of driving on winter tires all year are: 1) The rubber is too soft and will wear very fast. 2) The winter tire compound is softer and in higher heat situations, can cause loss of grip as the tire "goes away" from you in handling situations. 3) Like racing tires, the softer rubber compound can experience heat cycles in warmer temperatures that can have the effect of hardening the tire resulting in poor winter traction if the tire lasts long enough to carry you through another winter.

Just some thoughts. Oh, and bye the way, there has been some talk of making winter tires mandatory in Ontario, similar to a new Quebec law implemented this year.


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## Macinguelph (Oct 27, 2007)

Sorry, just noticed a "nut" in my ramblings - should read "but". I need a context checker in addition to spell check!


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Macinguelph said:


> Sorry, just noticed a "nut" in my ramblings - should read "but". I need a context checker in addition to spell check!


Why not simply click the edit button and fix it rather than another post?


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## Macinguelph (Oct 27, 2007)

SINC said:


> Why not simply click the edit button and fix it rather than another post?


Guess I'm trying to learn something new every day! Thank's SINC I'll try that next time.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

I just paid for a set of four Nokian WR G2s (P195/65/R15 for my Corolla) for $625 including installation, balancing, environmental fees, and taxes. I'm going to get them installed closer to the middle of October but I just wanted to take advantage of the ridiculous low sale prices (it would've been $760 otherwise). Although the guy said they were only available at that price for grand opening weekend, I think they still are on sale till the end of the month. Based on reviews, these are awesome tires for mild winters where you mostly expect wet snow, slush, ice, rain, and dry pavement conditions. Thanks MLeh for your recommendation.


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

I use Nokian WRs year round. In winter, I use Gislaved Nordfrost 3s.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

The Nokian WR G2s are completely useless in the snow despite bearing the snowflake in mountain symbol. Poor acceleration, lackluster handling. The only thing that's good about it is braking in the snow which is super fun I might add. I was able to safely brake as hard as I could from 80km/h on slush over compact snow to 0 in less than 100m without losing control at all -- impressive! I'm exchanging them for Yokohama Ice Guard IG20s. I really wanted the Michellin X-Ice 2s but apparently they are completely sold out.

On the plus side.... the WR G2s have been absolutely outstanding in wet weather and they won't hydroplane even if you beg it to. They're quiet, they perform pretty well in dry weather, I would not hesitate to get low profile versions for 17" rims and run them as summer tires.

Certainly a valiant effort by Nokian to create a winter tire that could be used year round but in the end the compromises were much too great. They are safe enough that if you do hit unexpected snow in the middle of summer on a mountain pass that you can safely pull an emergency stop if necessary, but that safety factor is only useful in the winter if you can even get your car moving.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"Just some thoughts. Oh, and bye the way, there has been some talk of making winter tires mandatory in Ontario, similar to a new Quebec law implemented this year." Same here in NL. Our legislature is waiting to see the stats from this winter in Quebec.


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## MLeh (Dec 23, 2005)

dona83 said:


> The Nokian WR G2s are completely useless in the snow despite bearing the snowflake in mountain symbol. Poor acceleration, lackluster handling. The only thing that's good about it is braking in the snow which is super fun I might add. I was able to safely brake as hard as I could from 80km/h on slush over compact snow to 0 in less than 100m without losing control at all -- impressive! I'm exchanging them for Yokohama Ice Guard IG20s. I really wanted the Michellin X-Ice 2s but apparently they are completely sold out.
> 
> On the plus side.... the WR G2s have been absolutely outstanding in wet weather and they won't hydroplane even if you beg it to. They're quiet, they perform pretty well in dry weather, I would not hesitate to get low profile versions for 17" rims and run them as summer tires.
> 
> Certainly a valiant effort by Nokian to create a winter tire that could be used year round but in the end the compromises were much too great. They are safe enough that if you do hit unexpected snow in the middle of summer on a mountain pass that you can safely pull an emergency stop if necessary, but that safety factor is only useful in the winter if you can even get your car moving.


I'll disagree with your assessment. I was up in Whistler yesterday and the day before, and drove down from Whistler during the worst of the snow yesterday afternoon and found the Nokians to be the best tire I've ever used. They were great on ice, good for starting and stopping, and I never lost control when vehicles all around me were fishtailing all over the place. The snow in places was quite deep and I had absolutely no issues climbing hills or driving through deep piles of snow. The handling is exceptional.

I had absolutely no issues getting my vehicle moving.

By the way - I've put 10,000 km on my Nokians since I bought them in September - I've driven over the Coquihalla numerous times (once to Saskatchewan and twice to Revelstoke - the last time being during a full snow storm), plus the trip to Whistler this week. I've been through ice and snow, wet roads and snow covered. I have absolutely no qualms recommending these tires.


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

I bought Nokians, but won't be buying them again. The ice and wet snow/freezing rain performance is good but the Nokians are terrible on fresh or packed snow or during extreme cold; one of the worst winter tires I've used, actually.

They stiffen up in extreme cold more than others I've used (I've run ice radials for more than 10 years on all my vehicles) making them slick and giving poor traction. Mine actually pick up and hold snow instead of shedding it. I would not recommend them to anyone who has to deal with real snow in temps below -25C.

On one front tire, the sidewall failed and blew a hole about 2" long in it after two seasons. It might be road hazard related; it's a known cause. Another reason to reconsider them if you go off-pavement.

The Nokians can be studded, and they use a special square shank stud that supposedly won't come out as easily. If I knew then what I know now, I would have had them studded or just used a different tire (most tire shops won't stud a tire with wear ... they need a clean hole on a brand new tire for studs to be properly installed). On the other hand, I'd rather not use studs if I can get away with it.

I'm actually quite disappointed with them and the $800 price tag that goes with them. They are about 3 winters old. Serves me right for listening to the car guys on TSN, where they drive in Vancouver or Toronto.

Next time I might be going back to Coopers for the truck (Discoverer M+S; LT service, Load Range C), which are as good on ice or cold and wet, and much, much better in snow and off road. You should not use them year-round as the tread blocks are quite "squishy"; warm, dry pavement performance is only fair.

All in all the Nokians are not bad tires, they are close to decent if you look at them as an all-season tire that can do city/highway winter, and you never leave the pavement. They are certainly better than an all-season tire.

In the lower mainland, the Nokians might be OK, but you have good options like Blizzaks, Michelins and other less well known brands.

Any decent Ice tire or true winter tire (as compared to just snow or offroad tread) will wear much quicker on dry pavement than on snow covered roads. They will have comparably soft compounds that get even softer when the temp rises, and how hard the compound is will be the major factor in tread life with any tire. Because rubber doesn't like cold, they have to make them very soft and with specialized compounds (eg silica added). Note too that good performing summer tires are also softer than high mileage tires, and wear faster.

But, with winter tires, you also lose stopping distance on dry pavement over a summer or all-season tire, and there is a handling/cornering penalty. So, the soft compound doesn't really help with summer conditions like it would with a performance tire.

These are due to the tread being looser due to the sipes (little cuts) and the type of tread lugs; they will move around more, and there is more space between lugs, when for dry pavement traction you really want stiff tread blocks with maximum rubber on the road. So, there are drawbacks to running ice radials year round or in places without much snow. They are good in cold (near zero C) weather and wet roads, though.

A hot tip if you are interested in snow traction is to go with a narrow tire; especially if your vehicle's summer tire is a 60 or lower aspect ratio, but even if it's a 70 ... see if your winter tire is available in a 75 or even 80 series instead.

The big question is how often you find yourself in wet or dry pavement versus fresh or packed snow or ice, and how often is the temp below around 7C? I think in the lower mainland and preparing for snow, you are going to have to make compromises somewhere.

The problem with Canada is there is a huge variation in the weather conditions we face, so in reality I would suggest you talk first to the people who drive in your town rather than on a national forum.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Which Nokian tire do you have exactly? The Hakka R apparently has one of the best snow traction of all tires in extreme cold conditions (It's a Finnish? tire, they know cold), while the Hakka 5 has one of the best snow and ice traction. I didn't go with either because of the poor wet and dry handling. 

Warning, M+S doesn't cut it in the winter. It's an old standard that has been abused, much the the all-season tire designation. The M+S designation may mean the tread is designed for snow but the rubber may stiffen up rendering your tires useless. My dad had these M+S tires on his old truck and they were just plain horrible in snow. On flat terrain they were ok but just couldn't go anywhere in the hills. 

Here's a list of recommended truck/SUV winter tires:
APA.ca

Passenger winter tires:
APA.ca

Performance winter tires: 
APA.ca


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

dona83 wrote:
" ... Which Nokian tire do you have exactly? ..."
Nokian Hakkapeliitta LT

Purchased 10 Feb 2005; after 23,000 Km of mostly winter driving, best tire (front RT) has 1.1 cm (0.4375") tread depth left. Front LT failed (multiple sidewall cord separations) about 2,000 km ago and was replaced.

" ... It's a Finnish? tire, they know cold ..."

They know something about near-freezing temperatures and wet snow and slush, mostly. Finland doesn't get much extreme cold; just about everyone lives on the coast. Like I said, might be a good tire for the lower mainland.

However, I would seek out what locals say about what tires work best in your area and where you actually go. I mean, we are talking about a province where the RCMP will set up roadblocks on the highway and tell everyone without tire chains to wait two days and try again.

There are plenty of places in BC that can challenge any tire; in fact you could probably name any top-rated tire and by the second dart hit some spot on the BC map it's not suited for.

Really, it's OK to ask on ehMac but If I were you I'd take people up on their expertise closer to home. What works well in Mission might not be very suitable even 300 km away. BC residents sooner or later deal with the widest variety of conditions in Canada and they probably know what works, period.

All I can say, is if you're planning on driving up to Prince George, don't buy the tires I did.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

What car do you drive MLeh? My brand new Yokohama IG20s runs circles around the broken in Nokian WR G2s I had.

Gordguide, fair enough. I did put local winter weather into consideration which is why I thought the WR G2s would be good enough. They perform poorly in the dry powder snow we were suddenly hit with and I decided to get the IG20s which has way better in all types of snow and possibly ice as well but at the expensive of dry and wet weather... the soft treads and sidewalls don't particularily provide adequate handling for spirited driving but I'd rather be safe in the winter and save the spirited driving for the other three seasons.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I use Goodyear ultra grips in the winter on my Suzuki 4 x 4 and find them to be excellent on both snow and ice:


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Getting winter tires or not depends a little on the vehicle you are driving as well. 

I have a '02 Dodge Caravan with Goodyear TripleTread All seasons and with the weight and the tires, the thing handles really nicely in snow. Winter tires would be even better, but its really good. 

I got a Kia Rondo this year, and with the stock tires, the thing was like driving on skates. Was unbelievably slippery. I put just a simple pair of Goodyear Nordic Tires on (Get a lot of snow lately in Southern Ontario but not that cold weather). The difference was literally night and day. Went from feeling like driving on skates to feeling like I'm driving a 4x4. 

I still drive careful in inclement weather. Just really nice not to have to worry about not making it up hills, and being able to stop at intersections.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

They do indeed make a difference. My Grand Vitara Limited is in fact a 4 x 4 and I can go anywhere with it.

But a reminder for owners of 4 x 4s out there, while you can start off from an intersection with the greatest of ease, it does take you just as long to stop as normal. There is no corresponding lessening of stopping distance relative to the ease of take off so drive carefully and do not become over confident because of it.


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## MLeh (Dec 23, 2005)

dona83 said:


> What car do you drive MLeh?


I drive a 2004 AWD Toyota Highlander Limited (which has 17" wheels versus 16" on the regular Highlander).

Sinc: My saying is "4x4 is great for 'go', but it don't help with the 'whoa'."

I think sometimes people think that good snow tires should make driving just like driving on bare pavement. Which they don't. When it snows the first rule is 'slow down', and the second rule is 'leave more space'. I do a _lot_ of driving and my attitude is that most accidents are caused by impatience, so I'm a very patient driver - I don't feel the need to pass, and if I'm stuck behind someone I'll just back off and follow. I'll also let someone who wants to pass, pass. 

I don't commute (as my office is in my house), so when I do get into the vehicle I'm usually driving a minimum of 2000 km and am on the road for a few days, and my territory encompasses all of BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan & YT and NT. I will admit to flying into YT and NT, but the rest of it: I have driven to every corner, and in every season. I could be killed tomorrow (these things happen), but for the last 30 years of driving I've never had an accident and only had one speeding ticket. 

Now, lest people think I'm some pokey little old lady driving along at 30 km/hr .... no, I'm not. On a recent trip to Revelstoke, driving along in the dark in a bit of a snow storm, I was concerned because there seemed to be a bit of a convey of cars behind me (four or five cars), even though I was doing the posted speed limit of 90 km/hr on that stretch of road. When we came to a passing lane, I pulled into the 'slow lane', and slowed down a bit to give any person stuck in the convey who might want to pass the opportunity to do so. The cars behind me all followed me into the right lane and slowed down - because they were happier following than being in the lead on such a night. We all got to Revelstoke in good time and safely.

On the return trip, I came back via the Coquihalla connector. Driving up the incline after I left Westbank, where the temperature was hovering just around freezing, I watched the numbers drop on the exterior temperature indicator on the dash. There wasn't the dense fog I had experienced on my drive out, but there were clouds, and gradually it started to rain. The rain drops froze as they hit the windshield. I cranked the defrost to 'oh wow' and turned on the wipers to keep the windshield clear. But the rain froze on the rest of the car (and on the portion of the windshield not cleaned by the wipers), creating a lovely ice shell over the entire vehicle. Very shiny - like ... icing on a cake. I guess that's where the term comes from ...

There were a few other vehicles on the road (a couple of passenger vehicles and a couple of pickup trucks, along with my Highlander), and as if by common accord we all gradually slowed from the posted limit of 110 km/hr to a more sedate 90. We were all driving a fair distance apart from each other - no tailgating - just keeping within headlight distance (about 500 meters between vehicles at minimum). No one passed anyone else even though the highway is a four lane divided highway (and in many sections 6 lanes) and it was quite empty. The road was wet, and had been salted and sanded. I kept a close eye on the external temperature readout. The temperature dropped from -3 to -4, and then down to about -7 and kept dropping. Again by common accord we all gradually slowed to around 50 km/hr. The road was very slick, but everyone in our group obviously knew Newton's laws and nobody did anything stupid. The rain kept falling, and the ice kept building up on the vehicles. Then we reached the summit of the pass (1700+ meters). I looked at the external temperature, expecting it to be around -11. The car was suddenly buffeted by a very strong gust of wind, and I was surprised to see the temperature reading climb up to +5.

That explained the ice rain - the air up here was very warm, while a cold pocket of air was trapped below.

The road was ahead dry and clear, except for some seemingly inexplicable chunks of ice scattered randomly across the road. Because the road conditions had improved, the group of vehicles resumed normal driving speeds. Suddenly something large crashed into my windshield. A large chunk of ice. The closest vehicle to me was a sedan about 750 meters ahead. I watched, somewhat fascinated, as a large sheet of the ice coating the sedan separated from the vehicle and lofted into the air on the strong wind. And came crashing to the road in front of me. And then I heard a strange sucking noise and watched in the rear view mirror as the sheet of ice which had been covering the top of my Highlander lifted into the air and then disintegrated on the road behind me.

Ah ... that explained the random ice on the road. Within a couple of minutes the vehicle was completely ice free. 

On my recent trip to Whistler I drove in -20°C temperatures and in a variety of snow & ice conditions. The Nokians provided good grip for both starting and stopping, and good handling on the mountain roads. 

So in the last 10,000 km I've driven since I put the Nokians on, I think I have encountered just about every type of road condition that most drivers will experience. Rain, slush, snow, ice. And temperatures well below freezing.

I like my Nokian WR-G2-SUVs. They work just fine for me, and for the way I drive. I know I'll probably have to buy new ones in another 70,000 km. I'm okay with that. 

Your mileage may vary.


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

Interesting info, thanks for the comments. 

We saw a CTV story on these all season winter tires the other night so I looked them up on the web. The thing that struck me was the tread design and lack of large blocks in the tread that help a tire dig down into the snow.

I have Bridgestone all seasons on my winter beater Saturn and it's ok for the limited amount of snow we get here in the GTA. But these were useless in the heavier snowfall we got this week. They are ok on a thin film of slush but don't dig down enough.

On the wife's Saturn we have the Goodyear Nordic's from CTC. Since it's identical to the other Saturn it makes for a fair comparison. Much better traction in deeper snow compared to the all seasons.

On the Caravan I put Blizzacks on this fall, got a good deal on them. These are considerably better than the Nordics in the exact same snow conditions. I think partly due to the stickier tread compound + deeper tread blocks but also because the van weighs nearly twice as much as the Saturns and since it's FWD a lot of that weight is over the drive wheels....


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Just my 2 cents - Dunlop Winter Sport M3 DSST (not made any more). Had them for three winters, usually on from Dec-Mar (I mount them myself since they're on their own wheels). They're run-flat (my car requires them) and they have at least two more seasons after this left. I also reduce the width for the winter, as someone mentioned helps to cut through the snow.

Having winter tires improves your safety and is essentially cost neutral. Bring in mandatory laws (but stock up the suppliers first).


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

I completely agree, snow tires are not an excuse to drive like a race car driver. They just help you get going safer, and most importantly, stop better. Everyone should know that even snow tires have their limitations, some certainly more than others. My Corolla has a bit of trouble going up unplowed uphill sidestreets, and understandably that's the limitation of my car especially since I lowered it so I only have 4" clearance underneath lol, and FWD will never be better than a 4WD/AWD or even a RWD with good winter tires -- I say this because going uphill, the weight shifts towards the rear so you have better traction on the drive tires.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

After last nights snow storm and driving around the van with all-seasons for awhile, I think I'm going to get snow tires for the van as well. (When I can get a hold of them in Ontario)

Definitely much easier to drive in snow with snow tires.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

I got stuck behind a BMW sedan on my way home from work yesterday, sporting *summer tires* on stock wheels.  This guy could barely get his fancy BMW moving at any given flat intersection from a stop, and the snow on the road was very light (nothing to fret over).

Sad...


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Aw don't insult the poor BMW driver, he's paying $800 a month to lease his vehicle, eaving him with little left over to buy winter tires. And besides he can't mess up the look of his car with ugly steel wheels, that would just be plain unethical.

/sarcastic


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