# iMac G3 Upgrade Help



## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

Hello fellow ehMacians, I have an even bigger dilema than desiding between a wired keyboard and wireless. I recently bought an iMac G3 slot loading Blueberry (even though it`s more green than blue). I searched it up on everyMac and found out that the HDD, RAM and Optical Drive can be upgraded. It says that it takes Ultra ATA, which I think is the same as PATA. On TheCreativeOne`s youtube video of him upgrading his iMac G3, he said that the maximum HD size is 120GB, don`t know if that is accurate or not. Any ideas? So, I decided I`m going to buy and install a 120GB PATA WD Blue Caviar drive. Also, I`ve read that the max amount of RAM it can take is 2x 512MB PC100 RAM, however in TheCreativeOne`s video it did not work at all. I was looking to buy 2x 512MB Kingston PC100 RAM. Finally, the optical drive- which one should I get? The iMac G3s drive is a CD-ROM drive, I was looking to buy a good, compatible DVD drive that could also burn at least CD`s. That`s it for the hardware part.

Now for software:
I want to isntall OS X Tiger on this biatch. Apparenly you need a Firewire port for some reason to do so. Also your firmware has to be up to date, which I read can only be done by updating OS 9. (This iMac has Jaguar). I just want Tiger though.
What I understand is that first you need to do a fresh install of OS 9, update, THEN you install Tiger over that. Is there an easier way??? 

Thanks.

TheCreativeOne`s upgrade video (circa 2007) part 1: YouTube - iMac G3 Upgrade: Part One
part 2: YouTube - iMac G3 Upgrade: Part Two


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

Call me crazy, but this iMac is going to be my main computer (and my only one that I`ll actually use) untill the next iMac rev that ships with Lion


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

Mactracker is a handy app for those restoring/upgrading older Macs... Mactracker

Yes it will run up to 1GB of RAM, no it won't support more than 128GB of hard drive and you can swap in a laptop slot loading hard drive since that is what your iMac uses. There were DVD burners available so a hunt through eBay may help.

OWC (Performance Upgrades; FireWire USB SATA Storage; Memory, more at OWC) has something called XPostfacto which helped those trying to load Tiger on older unsupported Macs. Other World Computing- OSX Center

I guess like all hacintoshing keep in mind you could wind up with stability issues.

For example I'm typing this reply on my MACer Aspire One running OSX Leopard via the Kalyway hack. It's pretty cool though running an upgrade of the system will instantly kill the installation! But to have probably the worlds' smallest 'Mac' that actually is usable is pretty cool.


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

Niteshooter said:


> Mactracker is a handy app for those restoring/upgrading older Macs... Mactracker
> QUOTE]
> 
> Blew my mind that it now runs on Windows. Even though this is a replacement laptop, I still installed it. (windows 7=do not like at all) make sure. I just don`t know the proper way to upgrade to Tiger from Jaguar. What I`ve read is install OS 9, update to 9.2.2 + upgrade firmware, install XpostFacto (even though there is no OS 9 disk image) then install Tiger and XpostFacto will make it skip the hardware check. Any suggestions on this? I would also like to install my friend`s copy of iLife `06 which I`ve read is possible on a `99 iMac.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

You're going to be fighting an almost dead horse for the Mac OS software and hardware that you're wanting and needing to upgrade with that iMac and I'd suggest it's not worth the time or cost, and I often help support such older Macs when and where possible - but I'd strongly suggest that you just upgrade to a newer Mac model and OS to do what you're wanting.

Seriously!!!


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

pm-r said:


> You're going to be fighting an almost dead horse for the Mac OS software and hardware that you're wanting and needing to upgrade with that iMac and I'd suggest it's not worth the time or cost, and I often help support such older Macs when and where possible - but I'd strongly suggest that you just upgrade to a newer Mac model and OS to do what you're wanting.
> 
> Seriously!!!


I know that this Mac is old, but somehow in 2000 people manager to get by and use such machines. It really doesn't matter what it's worth now, back in the day it was worth more than a grand, so a hundred really isn't a lot to spend to get something that a few years ago you could only dream about. If you're into the computer enough, than you'd do anything for it

PS I may or may not be high


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## johnnydee (Feb 10, 2004)

I think he meant "high on macs!"
:lmao:


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

I think I'm like K2ACP in that I do it because I can. Cost so what it's a hobby...

It occurs to me that you can do the Tiger installation even easier, just install it from an iMac that has a FW port. I'm sure someone on here has such a beast.... then just slip that drive into your non FW iMac. Seems to me that was how I installed Tiger on one of the iMacs in my collection.

There is also some info here on the topic.

10.4: Install Tiger on older unsupported Macs - Mac OS X Hints

I did a look back at XpostFacto and that may be more work than needed since the only real issue is that your iMac doesn't have FW while that app was created to install OSX on Macs that could not run any version of OSX at all.

Re memory, I run 2X512 in the iMac G3's in my collection mostly using PC133 memory since that was what I had a lot of so it may just be that that installer had a bad strip of memory or the wrong type such as ECC found on servers.

Your iMac probably has the Harmon Kardon speakers so with an iSub you can have a pretty nice sounding Mac though the built in speakers on their own sound pretty good.

It is true that you could be chasing bad money with good but then the iMac was a pretty neat Mac and the slot loaders were a bit better than the originals. * I seem to recall swapping in a FW MB into a non FW iMac once and I don't recall a noticable performance difference between the 450MHz and the 600MHz iMacs in my collection.

We have a friend who is a writer and up until recently he was using a Mac Classic since that was all he needed. Before that he was using a Mac Portable. I only bumped him up to a PowerBook Wallstreet because he had all his work on legacy sw such as Claris Works and MacWrite plus needed French sw. It was quite the stretch to get him to use his backup Pismo with OSX because we were trying to ween him off his old Stylewriter and on to a brand new all in one USB printer.... so it really will boil down to just what you really need or use...

One final thought, I revisited Hacintoshes recently mainly because I had an Aspire One sitting collecting dust. For under $200 it's not a bad 'Mac' though as my only Mac I'd never do it since one mistake can render the thing DOA but with a wireless card swap and the right installer I have a netbook running OSX Leopard, wireless, full video, wired network, and sound. Only thing I haven't sorted yet are the SD card readers. I picked up a second AAO off eBay for a friend last weekend for $125 cdn, tossed in a $10 Dell DW1390 wireless card and built another Hacintosh..... granted I'm sure there are some other things that are broken that I haven't stumbled upon yet and there is that thing about breaking apple's license for the sw....


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

I'm not gonna quote Niteshooter, because that's one long quote, almost l
tl;dr but I read it because it concerned me. Well, yes, because *can is one of the reasons, but also it's because I have to upgrade it to finish my After Effects animation that I need to do, I doubt that AE will run on this even AFTER upgrades, but I know that some version of PS will, and I can do all my backgrounds and objects there. For the FW Mac trick, can it be an intel Mac? Because nobody I know has a PPC with a FireWire port.*
About PC133 memory- on the apple website it said that my version can only accept PC100 and from what i learned from watching the video (links in OP) it has to be non-ECC.*

As for speakers, I heard that the built in ones are really good, so I don't need an iSub right now

Macintosh Classic, eh? Wow, I can't believe that was enough space to store all of his novels, but maybe he was a haiku poet, so he didn't need all that HD*

About apple's EULA, I think it sucks, but it's there for a reason, to make people buy a Mac. I really think that old apple OSes like Panther and lower should be legally free, there are virtually no copies of those disks, because disks scratch, get eaten by llamas etc...


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

The PC100 may be the official description and is almost impossible to find and expensive if you do, but any good decent RAM dealer will supply the PC133 modules which are fully backwards compatible.

PS: It can take a max of 1GB RAM using two 512MB modules as you seem to have discovered.

I guess I kept all those old OS installers for a reason and even a four set CD for OS X for those Macs that didn't have a DVD-ROM capable drive.


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

pm-r said:


> The PC100 may be the official description and is almost impossible to find and expensive if you do, but any good decent RAM dealer will supply the PC133 modules which are fully backwards compatible.
> 
> PS: It can take a max of 1GB RAM using two 512MB modules as you seem to have discovered.
> 
> I guess I kept all those old OS installers for a reason and even a four set CD for OS X for those Macs that didn't have a DVD-ROM capable drive.


Couldn't find PC100 so I bought PC133, I hope that it works, I also bought a WD Blue Caviar PATA 150GB HDD, couldn't find a 120GB. Keyboard- I bought the new apple wired keybo :S dunno if it works, but the apple store guys told me that it did


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

The PC133 RAM will work just fine with that iMac as long as it's configured and Mac compatible.

That PATA 150GB HDD sounds like a odd size for an ATA/IDE 3.5" drive, but regardless, some have used 160GB drives successfully on non-supporting "big drive" Macs and you may get different size reporting, and just don't fill it with more than 128 GB of data or it could fall off the edge and become inaccessible - at least with it used in that iMac.

Edit: I just noticed that WD does have a 150GB PATA drive and apparently with a bigger cache - nice.


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

pm-r said:


> The PC133 RAM will work just fine with that iMac as long as it's configured and Mac compatible.
> 
> That PATA 150GB HDD sounds like a odd size for an ATA/IDE 3.5" drive, but regardless, some have used 160GB drives successfully on non-supporting "big drive" Macs and you may get different size reporting, and just don't fill it with more than 128 GB of data or it could fall off the edge and become inaccessible - at least with it used in that iMac.
> 
> Edit: I just noticed that WD does have a 150GB PATA drive and apparently with a bigger cache - nice.


Will that bigger cache affect my iMac? I really don't want it running too hot for it to handle. What do you mean by 'configured' ? Some types of ram I'd not Mac compatible? First time I heard that one, isn't the hardware in a Mac and PC almost exactly the same?


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## jamesB (Jan 28, 2007)

pm-r said:


> and just don't fill it with more than 128 GB of data or it could fall off the edge and become inaccessible


Now that's a new technical bit of computer jargon, at least to me it is,


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

jamesB said:


> Now that's a new technical bit of computer jargon, at least to me it is,


Yes - And an unfounded and unqualified statement by me, but I'm also thinking of a similar problem when an excessive amount of unsupported RAM has been installed that CanadaRam alluded to recently on this list.

ie: creating a situation where the Mac OS cannot access the saved data.

Bottom line: just letting the potential user know and maybe they could do some more investigation.


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## MacMagicianJunior (Nov 28, 2010)

*A few to quote here*

Just to start off... that machine, if it is a slot loading G3 iMac, should already have FW 400 ports built in here:









According to all the sources I can find only the tray loaders were lacking in FW ports, so Tiger should install and be supported natively without any difficult workarounds.

EDIT - Dammit, I searched high and low for something to contradict this statement before posting it and 10 minutes after I find a reference to the 350MHz Blueberry NOT having the FW400 ports... and I'm betting that's probably what you have. So every slot loader iMac EXCEPT that one has FW 400 (which ironically is one I don't have, my G3s are all 400MHz or better)... so just ignore all that.



K2ACP said:


> I know that this Mac is old, but somehow in 2000 people manager to get by and use such machines.


They did; however, being so old this particular series has a couple of end-of-life issues that it's already facing, it's flyback transformer for the screen for example has a limited lifespan (I've seen dozens with this and related parts failed or failing in the last couple of years), as does the power supply and several other components, parts are scarce and replacing them is difficult (and in the case of the transformer and PSU dangerous because of the voltages involved in CRT screens). I mention this because it sounds like you'll be putting the machine under a relatively heavy workload and it would be worth picking up a few spare parts and the knowledge to replace them safely so that you can continue to enjoy it for many years.



pm-r said:


> just don't fill it with more than 128 GB of data or it could fall off the edge and become inaccessible - at least with it used in that iMac.


I've never tried this myself but couldn't he just partition it? Say into 125 & 25 or something similar? That should negate the 'here there be dragons' aspect of the bigger than supported drive if it's possible.



K2ACP said:


> Will that bigger cache affect my iMac?


If anything it'll help the drive access faster.



K2ACP said:


> but I know that some version of PS will


Adobe CS2 will run on this machine under Panther (10.3.8) or Tiger (10.4.xx) but an older version might be preferred...


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## MacMagicianJunior (Nov 28, 2010)

jamesB said:


> Now that's a new technical bit of computer jargon, at least to me it is,


I like it myself... I'm gonna start using it.


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

It's slot loading iMac blueberry, no FireWire.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

If I recall correctly, partitioning an internal "big dive' did not always work, at least if partitioned on such non-supporting Macs and could lead to data corruption if the Mac and the OS didn't support such 'Big drives'. 

USB and FW connected "big drives" could usually be used to their full capacity for some strange reason that I never understood.

PS: I'm glad you liked the "computer jargon"expression I used and it seemed fitting for what I was trying to say and describe without going into techie details and you're free to use it. ;-)


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## MacMagicianJunior (Nov 28, 2010)

K2ACP said:


> It's slot loading iMac blueberry, no FireWire.


Yeah, I already edited the post, I found a reference to the 350MHz blueberry not having it even though MacTracker doesn't make the distinction. The 400 MHz blueberry iMacs do, as does every other slot loading G3 iMac. Just not that one version of that one model.


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## MacMagicianJunior (Nov 28, 2010)

pm-r said:


> If I recall correctly, partitioning an internal "big dive' did not always work, at least if partitioned on such non-supporting Macs and could lead to data corruption if the Mac and the OS didn't support such 'Big drives'.
> 
> USB and FW connected "big drives" could usually be used to their full capacity for some strange reason that I never understood.
> 
> PS: I'm glad you liked the "computer jargon"expression I used and it seemed fitting for what I was trying to say and describe without going into techie details and you're free to use it. ;-)


Thanks, I appreciate the licensing

As for the partitioning I wasn't sure having never tried it. Even if the second partition were inaccessible it might at least cordon-off the danger area... I dunno, it could be worth a shot but then I wonder if disc utility could even see it all to partition it in the first place.


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

Seems to me that partitioning big drives also didn't always work on the Macs that did not support over 128 GB and swapping out drives etc on an iMac isn't exactly fast so it would be a real PITA to discover this problem after the fact...

But external big drives do work just fine.

MacMagicianJunior made an interesting comment about spare parts.... it seems to me that on some of these iMacs you could mix and match internal parts but it depended a lot on the particular models.

For instance on the tray loaders the CPU was on a daughtercard so you could bump the original Bondi 233 up to a 333MHz while the later generations had the cpu soldiered to the motherboard so they could not be swapped.

On your Blueberry when you rip it apart to add memory and hard drive have a look at the motherboard. See if it had pads for the non existent FW ports and if there are cutouts on the plastic that are covered over (no I'm not suggesting soldiering on ports...). It might be possible to bump up your motherboard to the faster DV but I might be wrong about that particular iMac. I have one in my collection and I just don't remember which one I have done the FW to non FW motherboard swap with.

It may have been a non FW slot loader but I might have done that to my iMac (summer 2000) version which does not have the frosted rear casing but is more see through. Problem is that not all the power supplies are the same in these models even though they all look similar..... so even though it seems simple to swap things around it might not work since you can't plug the old power supply into the new motherboard....

The most I ever tried running was CS on my iMac DV being used to faster Macs it felt pretty slow....


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

right, I`ll check the logic board for anything off. i`ll also take a few pics because i could miss something. do not know if this RAM will work in it, but it was made by Centon. site: Centon MemoryPower 512MB PC133 (133Mhz) 168pin SDRAM DIMM (512MBPC133) - Centon Electronics, Inc.
i think that the ram is perfect, to be honest


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

funny how they sell memory upgrades for the TAM and not for the iMac G3


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## MacMagicianJunior (Nov 28, 2010)

K2ACP said:


> funny how they sell memory upgrades for the TAM and not for the iMac G3


Well, the TAM is considered extremely collectible, whereas this model mainly lives in landfills now...


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

MacMagicianJunior said:


> Well, the TAM is considered extremely collectible, whereas this model mainly lives in landfills now...


The TAM was a piece of ****te. Most of the models in landfills are broken already, with burnt out CRTs, fried logic board, etc etc


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## MacMagicianJunior (Nov 28, 2010)

K2ACP said:


> The TAM was a piece of ****te. Most of the models in landfills are broken already, with burnt out CRTs, fried logic board, etc etc


I wasn't referring to value or merits of either, but the TAM was rare and therefore collectible, the G3 iMacs were ubiquitous, and therefore not, never mind the fact that most people who do collect older iMacs have dozens of them (before I culled the herd three years ago I had close to twenty) and therefore piles of compatible RAM, parts etc....

Ultimately the G3 iMac just isn't a desirable machine anymore (when I got rid of most of mine I had to give them away, I couldn't even get $15 each for them, and believe me I tried), and the people who do have them aren't looking to upgrade them further. Your situation is a very unusual one...


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

I bought mine for $25 on everymac it said the value was $30-40, so I thought that it was a bargain


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## MacMagicianJunior (Nov 28, 2010)

K2ACP said:


> I bought mine for $25 on everymac it said the value was $30-40, so I thought that it was a bargain


Worth is largely dependent on the local market, I was selling mine in Vancouver at the time and expect the market was glutted. $25 is a great price for a working computer.

Hell I paid $50 for a broken Pismo last year...


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

Actually the memory for the TAM is not the same as PC133.

TAM requires 5v 168 pin dimms and not 3.3v 168 pin which is what PC133 memory is.

That Centon memory will work though Canada Computers and Canada Ram also carry it.

SDRAM PC133 168pin | Canada Computers

Canada RAM sells memory- DIMMs, SDRAM, SODIMMs, PC100, PC133, PC66 Mac, PC, Laptop, Server

Broken and Pismo are kind of a funny combination since most people selling 'broken' Pismos typically have dead PRAM batteries which prevent the Pismo from starting. Simply unplugging the PRAM battery and holding down the power button restarts a dead one. In a worse case scenario pushing in the reset on the back works...

G4 Lampshades have been turning up at my local recycler I bought a 15" and 17" 800MHz version for $75 a piece in the summer. That included keyboards, mice, power cords and airport cards.


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## MacMagicianJunior (Nov 28, 2010)

Niteshooter said:


> Broken and Pismo are kind of a funny combination since most people selling 'broken' Pismos typically have dead PRAM batteries which prevent the Pismo from starting. Simply unplugging the PRAM battery and holding down the power button restarts a dead one. In a worse case scenario pushing in the reset on the back works...


Ding! Winner...


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

I need one of those broken Pismos


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

New developments: no goddamn mouse works with this, i`ve tried over three mice. I`m waiting a reply from MacDoc about the Pro Mouse and Keybo he`s selling. i`ve tried a Targus mouse, a Logitech M110 mouse, and a Kensington ci65m. None of these work, even though on all their packaging it says: compatible with Mac OS X 10.2. I REALLY NEED TO USE THIS COMPUTER! Any ideas what 3rd party mouse could work with this? Anybody have a Pro Keybo and Pro Mouse they don`t need and want to sell???


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## MacMagicianJunior (Nov 28, 2010)

K2ACP said:


> New developments: no goddamn mouse works with this, i`ve tried over three mice. I`m waiting a reply from MacDoc about the Pro Mouse and Keybo he`s selling. i`ve tried a Targus mouse, a Logitech M110 mouse, and a Kensington ci65m. None of these work, even though on all their packaging it says: compatible with Mac OS X 10.2. I REALLY NEED TO USE THIS COMPUTER! Any ideas what 3rd party mouse could work with this? Anybody have a Pro Keybo and Pro Mouse they don`t need and want to sell???


Does any USB device work with it? What about keyboards? The reason I ask is that any (edit: ok almost any... but it's like 1% that won't work and none of the brands you've mentioned are in that 1%) USB mouse should just work with it and I'm concerned that the problem could be with the USB bus itself... have you tried it booting from the optical drive (hoping you might have a bootable CD here...)?


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

MacMagicianJunior said:


> Does any USB device work with it? What about keyboards? The reason I ask is that any (edit: ok almost any... but it's like 1% that won't work and none of the brands you've mentioned are in that 1%) USB mouse should just work with it and I'm concerned that the problem could be with the USB bus itself... have you tried it booting from the optical drive (hoping you might have a bootable CD here...)?


There aren't many USB 1.1 devices around anymore, also this iMac has jaguar, which for some retarded reason isn't supported by a lot of mice while XP being 2 years older than Jaguar, is. WTF. There's a jaguar install disk in the CD drive, I cannot eject it ( no keybo or mouse) and I can't boot from it ( by pressing C) because there is no keybo to press c into. I have some very important Photoshop work that i need to do


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## MacMagicianJunior (Nov 28, 2010)

K2ACP said:


> There aren't many USB 1.1 devices around anymore, also this iMac has jaguar, which for some retarded reason isn't supported by a lot of mice while XP being 2 years older than Jaguar, is. WTF. There's a jaguar install disk in the CD drive, I cannot eject it ( no keybo or mouse) and I can't boot from it ( by pressing C) because there is no keybo to press c into. I have some very important Photoshop work that i need to do


It shouldn't matter... I'm using USB 2.0 mice on my Pismo right now running OS 9.0.4 and on my MDD running Jaguar, both of which are very much USB 1.1 only.

Hmm, I remember hearing something strange about iMac G3's needing specific keyboards and mice, maybe that's the issue here? I'll get back to you...


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

K2ACP said:


> I need one of those broken Pismos


Hmmm from the sounds of things that might not be such a good idea....

Otherwise just go on eBay and look for dead Pismos especially one's where the owner put it away alive and now it's dead.

Re Keyboard and Mouse, well if you were on the other side of Toronto you could borrown one from me as we have a few. I'm also somewhat surprised that non of those mice worked granted I haven't used 10.1 since hmmm come to think of it I never used it and went from 9.2.2 to 10.2.

Since you are in the west end, try calling A1 Electronics they are down by Sherway Gardens and see if he has some old Mac USB mice and kb's. Wonder if it's that those newer mice are two button and back then Apple was only shipping single button mice.

Hmm come to think of it I have a box of puck mice somewhere that we never even used when we got out G4's at work. They got tossed out and come to think of it I thought I saw puck mice at A1 last summer.


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## MacMagicianJunior (Nov 28, 2010)

MacMagicianJunior said:


> Hmm, I remember hearing something strange about iMac G3's needing specific keyboards and mice, maybe that's the issue here? I'll get back to you...


Okay, I spoke to my father in BC who is the curator of our Mac collection (and a 30 year Apple tech) and he confirmed that while we never found mention of it in writing, the spec on the USB ports for the tray loader iMacs didn't seem to be 100% industry standard, and reminded me that when we tested the lot of them we had to use the stock mouse & keyboard to get them to work. Unfortunately this was the generation prior to the one you have, and the only slot loaders we kept were a 600MHz flower power from early 2001 and a 700MHz Graphite from summer of that same year, both of which work fine with any USB keyboard and mouse we've ever tried on them.

Low End Mac mentions the tray loader requiring OHCI compatible USB devices and that "some early USB peripherals may not be compliant" but it doesn't mention OHCI on any other machines of the day, nor does it mention it for yours.

So without having that model to test I can't say with any certainty, the model immediately prior to it however did show this behaviour so the ideal would be to have an actual stock iMac puck and keyboard to try with it but that may be a bit of a challenge to find.

One thing I found is that the slot loaders had 2 separate USB busses (one for each port) so it might be worth it to try them in the other port (and I'm sure you've already tried this but It's worth mentioning on the off chance you haven't) just in case one is blown.

As for picking up a Pismo yourself you would probably be better served going with something newer (and there's always a chance that the one you buy is dead for a more serious reason than just a dead PMU battery, then you're stuck with a broken laptop), even a used G4 tower would be far better for your purposes, they were pretty robust, easier to match peripherals to and significantly faster. They also shouldn't cost you an arm and a leg... you would however need a screen to go with it... but they're pretty cheap now.


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

A1 doesn't have any


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

Just noticed something, both USB ports are upside down. 0.0 Is that how it should be?


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

I`m going to investigate, but knowing CRTs the way they are I might not make it out alive. Wish me luck!


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

I took out the 128MB of RAM and installed a gig, the boot time (from pushing ON `till the gray apple disappears) went from 100 seconds to 70. i was expecting a bit less like 50 seconds, but at least I know the RAM is good


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

There were some utilities for OS 8.6 and 9.x to disable the memory check and speed up the boot process but I can't recall the names and the more RAM installed, the longer the test. 

Or you could use the method outlined by Sonnett:

"There is a new "hidden" Mac OS 9.x feature called Startup Memory Tests in the Memory Control Panel, which defaults to the "On" setting. This adds time during a startup or restart, as all of the RAM installed in the computer is checked."

"However, since RAM seldom fails after the first few days of regular use, you may turn this test off if a faster startup cycle is desired. To access this feature you must hold down the Command key and the Option key WHILE opening the Memory Control Panel. When the control panel opens, you will see a setting at the bottom of the control panel. Click the Startup Memory Tests’ Off button, then close the Memory Control Panel. Be aware that from now on, when you start up or restart your computer, the Mac OS will NOT check your RAM. If in the future you suspect a memory problem and want to check your RAM, you will need to repeat this procedure and turn the Startup Memory Tests back on.

Encore/ZIF Tech Tips
Sonnet Customer Service is available M–F, 7am-4pm Pacific Time.

E-mail: [email protected] 

Home > Support > Techtips > Encorezif

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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

I don't have OS 9 installed yet, I have Jaguar


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

Did you finally get a KB and mouse?


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

Niteshooter said:


> Did you finally get a KB and mouse?


No, I just can't find them anywhere  
I'm probably not going to finish all of my Photoshop work


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## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

K2ACP, I have an Apple USB keyboard from a G4 that has long since gone to a new owner. It's graphite colored (sorry - color won't quite match) but I'm sure it will work, as it was the same model of keyboard that came with the iMacs:



> Apple USB Keyboard (M2452)
> 
> Apple USB Keyboard (Bondi blue)
> Released and sold with the iMac in 1998 this became the new standard for all Macintosh models for the next two years. It was the first to use translucent plastics, first in Bondi blue, then in a darker gray in the PowerMac line and fruit-colored for each of the five first color variations of the iMac. It had a built-in adjustable stand. It also marked a return to the standard keyboard with integrated keypad with the enhanced cursor keys above the keypad. Also, the keyboard had a power button on the top right side. This keyboard works with Windows except for the power button and f13-f16.


 (from Wikipedia)

If you'd like it, it's yours. I was wondering what the heck I was going to do with it when I came across it stuffed on a shelf in the family room the other day. I *think* I got rid of the hockey puck mouse though - loathed them and never used it. We did own an iMac G3 briefly (one I rescued and refurbed) and I'm almost positive that I used a Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 or a Microsoft Optical mouse (basic white model) on it. They started to make those in 1999. Great mice - the last one I had went to my sister-in-law with an upgraded G4. There are some on eBay. There are also some hockey puck Apple mice and this person will ship (via USPS) to Canada for $6, so not a bad deal:

Apple USB wired ball mouse (model: M4848) on eBay.ca (item 180604968663 end time 24-Jan-11 14:27:51 EST)

PM me if you'd like the keyboard. I live in Leaside.


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

Hmm ok, if you can get down to 1 Yonge street sometime next week I can give you a hockey puck mouse. They aren't as dreadful as everyone says and I might even have a graphite version to match the other fellows KB.


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

I have five of these G3 iMacs in my house now, ready to be made into dumbed-down educational computers running OS9.

I've already made two of them with the OS9 Launcher as the head-end - keeps the kids from messing with the Finder. I figured a way to put game CD-Roms as disc images and launch them at start up. That keeps from having to swap discs.

I just have to find some 20-30Gb IDE hard drives to bump the capacity of the disc images.

The resolution of these CRTs is perfect for the games.


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

Paddy said:


> K2ACP, I have an Apple USB keyboard from a G4 that has long since gone to a new owner. It's graphite colored (sorry - color won't quite match) but I'm sure it will work, as it was the same model of keyboard that came with the iMacs:
> 
> (from Wikipedia)
> 
> ...



Thanks, it works great, so now I know that I don't have a problem with the iMac's USB's


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

gmark2000 said:


> I have five of these G3 iMacs in my house now, ready to be made into dumbed-down educational computers running OS9.
> 
> I've already made two of them with the OS9 Launcher as the head-end - keeps the kids from messing with the Finder. I figured a way to put game CD-Roms as disc images and launch them at start up. That keeps from having to swap discs.
> 
> ...


I'd just put ZSNES (SNES emulator) on it and you and your kids would get hours of fun playing Chrono Trigger (it's educational, because it's an RPG where you go back in time and meet various people from different eras. I remember I once took out a Macbeth interactive cd rom from the library and found it was for OS 8. I was pretty surprised. The library probably has tons of games/ educational stuff for Mac OS 8/9


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## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

Glad to hear that the KB worked, K2ACP! 

And for the record, niteshooter, I'm no "fellow"...


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

*Update!*

OK, no mice work on this iMac, it does not boot from cd when pressing 'c' or by pressing option (it only shows the iMac disk). I've tried both the Panther install CD and the OS 9 install CD, nothing. Reseting PRAM did not fix anything.
The Apple Pro mouse I got from MacDoc doesn't work either, the laser lights up, but the pointer does not move when I move the mouse. I know the USBs are fine, since the keybo works. The cd drive sees and reads both CDs fine in the GUI (on the desktop and in Finder). I have no clue what is wrong. The OS is Jaguar 10.2.8.

Possible theories: 
Jaguar was incorrectly installed
Firmware was not updated before upgrading from OS 8/9 to Jaguar


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Have you tried shutting down and booting into 'safe boot mode' if possible??

Or set the the the 'Startup disk' for what you have and want??

Holding the C and/or Option key at boot doesn't always work with some Macs.

And if I recall there were some firmware updates that needed to be downloaded and installed to get things working properly. If they are still supported. Hmmm...


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

pm-r said:


> Have you tried shutting down and booting into 'safe boot mode' if possible??
> 
> Or set the the the 'Startup disk' for what you have and want??
> 
> ...


I have no clue how to boot into safe mode with just a keyboars :S
Holding option works, but no cds are there, only the imac disk
I have no idea how to install firmware updates with just a keyboard also


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

From Apples KB:
"To start up into Safe Mode (to Safe Boot), do this:

Be sure the computer is shut down.
Press the power button.
Immediately after you hear the startup tone, hold the Shift key. The Shift key should be held as soon as possible after the startup tone but not before.
Release the Shift key when you see the gray Apple icon and the progress indicator (looks like a spinning gear).
During startup in Mac OS X v10.4 or later, you will see "Safe Boot" on the login window, which appears even if you normally log in automatically.

During startup in Mac OS X v10.2 through v10.3.9, you will see "Safe Boot" on the Mac OS X startup screen.

To leave Safe Mode in any version of Mac OS X, restart the computer normally, without holding any keys during startup."

BTW: You can do a lot of navigating and opening etc. using the keyboard only with the alpha, enter and return and tab and arrow keys, command+o. command+w etc.

Just the opposite of typing an important message I had to do years ago when the keyboard died and using the 'Keyboard viewer' to 'type' in the text etc.


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## MacMagicianJunior (Nov 28, 2010)

pm-r said:


> BTW: You can do a lot of navigating and opening etc. using the keyboard only with the alpha, enter and return and tab and arrow keys, command+o. command+w etc.


You can also use "CTRL+F2" with the arrow keys to navigate the menu bar and "CTRL+F3" to navigate the dock *I was only able to test this in Tiger since my Jaguar drive bit the biscuit last week. It *should* work for all iterations of OSX but I can't promise it will.

Using this in combination with the arrow navigation and "CMD+O" should let you open and run the OS installers from within the GUI without a mouse (letting you confirm whether it's a bad OS install or not). Also you should be able to check the firmware by navigating to the Apple System Profiler in the Utilities folder (which is in the Applications folder) and then looking at the "Boot ROM info" under the Hardware Overview tab in the System Profile pane. It should read some variation of 4.1.9 any version earlier means that the Firmware hasn't been upgraded correctly.

I'm still not 100% convinced that this iMac doesn't require the original puck mouse, but without having one to try that's just a guess.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

MacMagicianJunior said:


> You can also use "CTRL+F2" with the arrow keys to navigate the menu bar and "CTRL+F3" to navigate the dock *I was only able to test this in Tiger since my Jaguar drive bit the biscuit last week. It *should* work for all iterations of OSX but I can't promise it will.
> 
> Using this in combination with the arrow navigation and "CMD+O" should let you open and run the OS installers from within the GUI without a mouse (letting you confirm whether it's a bad OS install or not). Also you should be able to check the firmware by navigating to the Apple System Profiler in the Utilities folder (which is in the Applications folder) and then looking at the "Boot ROM info" under the Hardware Overview tab in the System Profile pane. It should read some variation of 4.1.9 any version earlier means that the Firmware hasn't been upgraded correctly.
> 
> I'm still not 100% convinced that this iMac doesn't require the original puck mouse, but without having one to try that's just a guess.


And lot's more keyboard navigation and shortcuts available, and maybe even invoking the "Speakable items" in Speech pref pane etc. etc.

And I would agree with your last sentence as well. But I'm sure I used other mice with those iMacs, but they were Apple mice if I recall and a basic wired optical Logitech would not always work with those and other legacy iMacs.

But I'm really wondering if we aren't been taken for a ride here with the OP and/or having our leg jerked a bit with his/her problems.

And what USB ports have been used with either of the mice, or have they even been unplugged and plugged in while booted to get the OS to recognize any.

And is the optical drive working or not, and what install disks do they have available.

Was Disk Utility even run to at least 'verify' the disk volume.

And a Google for 'Apple Etobicoke Ontario' and Google Maps shows me the OP even has an Apple Store available and not too far away as I read the map, to get some proper help - if their project was so critical.
Apple Retail Store - Sherway Gardens - Driving Directions & Map

I'm beginning to smell something odd.

If it's so important, why not get some good professional help, otherwise I'm out of this thread and it's already now at 58 postings.

Sorry to be so blunt but gheese!!!


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

Alright, I booted into safe mode and restarted and my mouse works, THANK YOU EVERYBODY!
So, I decided to finally replace the harddrive, annnnd, being the clumsy klutz that I am, I shredded one of the screws that hold the harddrive inside the casing. I'm no expert, but what I did is I stopped trying to unscrew it to stop making it worse. I have no clue how to get it out though... pliers? hacksaw? WD-40? fire?


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

Sorry for annoying you pm-r, but you don't have to reply if you don't want to. What good would the guys at the apple store do anyway? They'd probably charge me $50 and tell me to get a new iMac (which I will, next revision). This thread started with me asking for suggestions for upgrading my iMac, then I got a kebo from Paddy (thanks!) and then I tried various mice and they didn't work at all. So, I got the apple pro mouse from MacDoc (thanks again). And it didn't work 0.0 So, I asked the ehMac community to help me diagnose the problem, which was solved with booting into safe mode and rebooting (oddly enough). This thread happened to be long because all of the things I had to work out, and all you helpful guys helped me (which I knew you would).


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## MacMagicianJunior (Nov 28, 2010)

K2ACP said:


> Alright, I booted into safe mode and restarted and my mouse works, THANK YOU EVERYBODY!


NICE!! Glad it was just an OS issue... 



K2ACP said:


> So, I decided to finally replace the harddrive, annnnd, being the clumsy klutz that I am, I shredded one of the screws that hold the harddrive inside the casing. I'm no expert, but what I did is I stopped trying to unscrew it to stop making it worse. I have no clue how to get it out though... pliers? hacksaw? WD-40? fire?


Hacksaw might work but will be tough to get into the right spot without it slipping off the head... you could try WD40 and vice-grips or if the head is undamaged WD40 and the screwdriver... if that fails do you want to be able to use that screw-hole again or don't care? If you don't care you could drill out the head (use a bit that's slightly larger than the threading on the shaft and drill into the center of the head), if you do care about re-using that hole then use a flathead screwdriver (or pry would be better but not everybody has one) to place tension between the frame and the drive and vice-grip the head carefully (the second option will be tougher but should extract the whole screw).

BTW Fire = bad idea either way... but I'm betting/hoping you were joking there...


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

I was really surprised when it started working in safe mode and that it still worked out of safe mode. As for the stripped screw, I do not want to ruin the hole, so i won't be using a drill. I guess that WD-40 should do the trick. When I wrote: fire, I was thinking of maybe melting off the screw, but it would melt into the case metal and possibly damage the harddrive.
I really hope I'm not bugging you also :S I hope that it'll be smooth sailing from here on, but can't really promise anything. (I have no clue what problems this machine might chuck at me next)


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Not annoying me K2ACP other than you not knowing a basic Mac function for problem solving and how to boot into "safe boot mode" and your hesistanty to do so from my earlier suggestion to do so.

So, bottom line is, if the mouse worked when booting into safe boot, which disables all non Apple bootable extensions, then some third party mouse software is preventing the mouse from working properly with a normal start up.

I hope this makes sense and it sounds like we're getting some progress with your troubles which I was beginning to doubt.

A download and run of the appropriate Mac OS X COMBO OS Update from Apple's site could probably be a good solution to get your Mac into a more useful working Mac as it should be.

PS: When the COMBO Update is downloaded, boot into Safe Boot Mode, repair and verify all permissions and verify disk and then run the COMBO Update when everything is repaired and/or verified as OK.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Using *Super Good Quality* tools on a Mac is almost mandatory, especially when the factory has over torqued the screws.

If you've used a cheap tool and stripped the gripping surface, stop and get a set of *good* tools for maybe $20.00± from Canadian Tire or a good jobber and there's a good chance the proper bit will make proper contact to grip and extract the screw(s).


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## MacMagicianJunior (Nov 28, 2010)

K2ACP said:


> I was really surprised when it started working in safe mode and that it still worked out of safe mode.


Actually I'm not, safe mode does more than just disable boot extensions it also:

_ quoted from osxdail.com "deletes font caches, forces a disk repair style directory check and clears a dynamic loader cache which can cause problems after a system update" _

It's the dynamic loader cache that I think might have been the culprit... 



K2ACP said:


> As for the stripped screw, I do not want to ruin the hole, so i won't be using a drill. I guess that WD-40 should do the trick.


Hopefully, that and brute force, unfortunately with wanting to still use the screw hole the options are limited...



K2ACP said:


> When I wrote: fire, I was thinking of maybe melting off the screw, but it would melt into the case metal and possibly damage the harddrive.


Almost certainly, the screw is probably more heat resistant than the caddy, I'd bet on the tray to melt first...



K2ACP said:


> I really hope I'm not bugging you also :S I hope that it'll be smooth sailing from here on, but can't really promise anything. (I have no clue what problems this machine might chuck at me next)


No worries, it's not like you're forcing me to participate right?


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

I didn't finish all my photoshop work on time  so one of the teachers gave me an iBook G4. I boot it up on the bus home and see that it works, then I shut it down and boot it up again at home, only it gets stuck at the apple logo this time :S I've tried Reseting PRAM, safeboot, verbose mode, option boot. I made an appointment with apple this time, but i want to try to fix it beforehand first. Any ideas? (I will be getting to fixing the iMac tomorrow)


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## Chimpur (May 1, 2009)

Be careful with that stripped screw. I used to have a set of "stripped screw/bolt extractors" that I got from Canadian Tire. They worked great, though they have a limited life as well. Those screws can be a real pain, but I think they key when removing them is to take it easy, use a real screwdriver that fits properly; not some 99c multiple bit thing.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

K2ACP said:


> I didn't finish all my photoshop work on time  so one of the teachers gave me an iBook G4. I boot it up on the bus home and see that it works, then I shut it down and boot it up again at home, only it gets stuck at the apple logo this time :S I've tried Reseting PRAM, safeboot, verbose mode, option boot. I made an appointment with apple this time, but i want to try to fix it beforehand first. Any ideas? (I will be getting to fixing the iMac tomorrow)


Hmmm... let's see now that we're now at message *66+here, and if you were playing baseball you're about to strike out again and possibly not get a contract again!!!

Let's peruse:

- iMac - at least two strikes if not three and still no runs and game play is at an end.

- Now iBook G4, presumably working from from your prof, but is almost kaput as to working when you get it home and boot it.

Something is definitely weird and strange happening in your Mac ballpark!!!


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## BlueMax (Aug 8, 2005)

The shop where I volunteer fixing computers has a pair of G3 iMacs (one was mine!) Both only have OS 8.6 on 'em... 

How can I cheap-or-free get OS9 for them? And is there anything important I need to do when doing a clean install?


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

I think I'm just unlucky around computers in general, first my 2 PC laptops kept crashing and BSODing. Next, the problems with the G3 and now the G4 (which started to slowly work when I booted into safe mode and left it for a while, it's been 3 hours and the only part of the desktop that is loaded at the moment is spotlight and the Tiger wallpaper). Me thinks my ballpark (read: apartment) is haunted by an Amish ghost or something... But, I agree it's been a long and bumpy ride and this thread is a bit too long.


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

BlueMax said:


> The shop where I volunteer fixing computers has a pair of G3 iMacs (one was mine!) Both only have OS 8.6 on 'em...
> 
> How can I cheap-or-free get OS9 for them? And is there anything important I need to do when doing a clean install?


I know no place where you could legally obtain OS 9 for free, but you could always go to the dark side of the Internet to download a copy. I really can't believe people were still seeding it 0.0. I burned myself a copy on a CD and as far as I can tell, it works. You should probably update OS 8 and it's firmware before installing OS 9, it gets more complicated when you want to upgrade to OS X


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

BlueMax said:


> The shop where I volunteer fixing computers has a pair of G3 iMacs (one was mine!) Both only have OS 8.6 on 'em...
> 
> How can I cheap-or-free get OS9 for them? And is there anything important I need to do when doing a clean install?


Start by calling Apple and ask them for a solution for obtaining an OS 9.x install disk for the volunteer work you're doing.

You might be surprised by their response, but be aware that Apple considers OS 9 unsupported and dead and buried as ol' Steve dictated some time ago.

But there must be some local Mac users in your area that could provide you some copies or install disks for your use.

If you get desperate, PM me. ;-)


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## Mr.Tickles (Mar 25, 2009)

I used to own an orange trayloader that got upgraded to a ?bondi of a year later generation when the trayloader got stolen.

I have the same mouse I used way back then (probably the first rev intellimouse, 5 button). It's showing it's age but has worked thus far on two PCs running XP and four macs running OS9 and OSX. I've still got it if you want it, but it is showing its age now as there was apparently a known defect with it that has started to manifest ten years later (connection randomly drops).

As for upgrading, I'm not really sure if it's worth the trouble for you. A used intel Macbook is probably cheaper than the cost of the upgrade parts for your iMac. On the other hand, there's a lot you can do with it just "out of the box".

I wouldn't really recommend trying to do photoshop and OSX on these machines. I tried to run OSX on a "Green" iMac I got for free from somebody at UBC but it ran far too slowly to be of any use.

Incidentally, OS9 runs older Photoshops that are almost as good as CS2 almost out of the box. I think my "green" has 4.0 and Illustrator 7.0, both because my family had the legacy disks kicking around. The only real difference is that they are somewhat less streamlined. OS9 also has two decades of mac gaming available, most of which is now free or extremely cheap.

Claris/Appleworks 6 is also on like every OSX install disc ever (at least up until 10.3?) and so getting a copy of it would be pretty simple. Then you've got a decent work machine that can also web browse with one of the OS9 Firefox ports.


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

Good News! I got the screw out by using a hacksaw and making a cut so that I could get it out with a flathead srewdriver! I installed the 160GB Blue Caviar HDD. Now, how do I install an OS on it? I have an OS 9 disk and a Panther disk. I tried pressing 'c' after the ding but it will not boot from any CD :S it also doesn't do it automatically. It just flashes the finder icon and a question mark over a purple OS 9 folder


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## Chimpur (May 1, 2009)

Did you try inserting the cd as you booted the computer up, and then holding the option key down?


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

Chimpur said:


> Did you try inserting the cd as you booted the computer up, and then holding the option key down?


I did that, but no boot devices were shown, I know the cd driver works, because it read the contents of the panther and OS 9 cd in jaguar. It just doesn't like booting from a CD


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## Chimpur (May 1, 2009)

I have the same problem with my 700 MHz G3. By chance are these burnt cd's? Because those iMacs seem to be very cranky and picky when it comes to booting or even reading burnt cds. 

I have an image of a TigerDVD that I copied over onto an external FW400 hard drive, I used that to install tiger on the iMac, but even when in Tiger, the iMac spins burnt cd's of any kind or speed up, then promptly spits them back out. I think the optical drives on these old beasts are getting a bit past their shelf life.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

K2ACP said:


> I did that, but no boot devices were shown, I know the cd driver works, because it read the contents of the panther and OS 9 cd in jaguar. It just doesn't like booting from a CD


It sounds like you don't have the proper install disks.

And you may also need to check out if you need any of the firmware updates:

Mac OS X: Available firmware updates

iMac (Slot Loading): Install iMac Firmware 4.1.9 Before Mac OS X 10.2 or later

iMac Firmware Update 4.1.9: Information and Download

You may be better off calling your local Mac tech/repair to check and take the drive for them to do the install(s) using a PATA dock.


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

The firmware is up to date: 4.1.9f1
I've tried boot cd:,//tbxi (in open firmware) but it says: can't OPEN ,//tbxi
Both CD's are burnt, the Panther disk was inside the computer when I bought it and I burned the OS 9 disk (there's absolutely no way I could've obtained a legal copy and OS 9 has been dead since 2002)


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

K2ACP said:


> The firmware is up to date: 4.1.9f1
> I've tried boot cd:,//tbxi (in open firmware) but it says: can't OPEN ,//tbxi
> Both CD's are burnt, the Panther disk was inside the computer when I bought it and I burned the OS 9 disk (there's absolutely no way I could've obtained a legal copy and OS 9 has been dead since 2002)


The "burnt' install copies are probably your first problem and as to your comments of obtaining a proper legal compatible OS 9 or OS X install disk is complete BS!!!

I myself offered some constructive help waaay back and nothing from you so I'm otta here and I'd suggest you're wasting your and others time until you get some proper disks and some proper Mac OS install knowledge!!!

Have a good weekend!!! ;-)


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## Chimpur (May 1, 2009)

Pirated copies of software are um... frowned upon here. There are ways to get ligit install CD's. Its not as easy or cheap as a fresh copy of Snow Leopard. But doable, look on craigslist, kijiji and ebay. Some Mac sites have copies for sale, but try and find a copy thats not exorbitantly priced lol!


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

Of course I know that burnt copies aren't very legal, but OS 9 has been dead for over 9 years, and I'm not going to go to the trouble of buying legal OS 9 disks. Even at the Apple store, I asked one of the guys about finding a Panther or Tiger disk and they said to burn one yourself, that it's not work the trouble of finding one. Since, I recently got a PowerMac, i culd use that to install Panther, I'll let you guys know when I get a monitor for it and successfully install Panther on the iMacs HDD


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

My friend's legal copy of Panther worked beautifully on the iMac, THANKS TO ALL THAT HELPED! Fully upgraded (see sig) and running great! Safari's a bit slow though, so I installed Opera, and Opera's blazing fast on the iMac. Again, thanks to all that helped and may this thread one day help someone in the future!


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## thegoat54 (Nov 20, 2007)

I can't believe you're using that thing.


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## Chimpur (May 1, 2009)

K2ACP said:


> My friend's legal copy of Panther worked beautifully on the iMac, THANKS TO ALL THAT HELPED! Fully upgraded (see sig) and running great! Safari's a bit slow though, so I installed Opera, and Opera's blazing fast on the iMac. Again, thanks to all that helped and may this thread one day help someone in the future!


Good job! Its great to see these old machines put to some use at their age! Plus, I'm sure it was a fun little challenge!


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