# macbook air as a primary machine



## groovetube

This is for a friend, but it has me interested perhaps in a next generation, since I lug my mbp everywhere it seems, the weight or lack thereof seems very enticing.

She does mostly indesign/quark stuff, but doesn't really do any real heavy lifting in photoshop in terms of huge file sizes/heavy filters etc. Currently runs a core2 duo 1.16 15 with 3 gigs of ram and is generally happy with the performance in general. But really hates the weight of the 15, the 13 pro is still a lot heavier than the air.

The air considered would be the 13 tricked out with faster cpu, 4 gigs of ram and the 256 ssd drive. I think she'd see a real bump from the ssd, and would be great for the weight/portability. Any bad stories regarding the new air?


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## Maegan

The mac air looks wicked that was my first choose for my collage computer, but when i realized it dosent have a cd drive and only 1 usb port i said no and got an mac book pro 13". So i guess it depends on what you need it for and what you would use. i think the mac book air seems more like a computer you would by if you already have a main computer like a desk top.


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## groovetube

thx, though the new 13 has 2 usb ports, and she'd get an external optical so it isn't a concern. I'm more looking for experience on pro, but light graphics work.


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## Digikid

Apple MacBook Air SuperDrive - Apple Store (Canada)

Apple MacBook Air SuperDrive for MacBook Air


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## groovetube

that's great, we know this already. but looking for experience with using indesign/quark on it. thanks.


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## Digikid

My apologies. Good luck with your inquiry.


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## Rps

GT, I've been looking at one of the new airs instead of an iPad. But to your question. I don't do graphics work or such, but wouldn't the graphics and video processor be the key here. If they are similar to the MBP wouldn't that help answer your question somewhat.


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## groovetube

true, spec wise, it would seem to be up to the task. It isn't as strong as the 15" i5/i7s for sure. But looking to see if this is a real bad idea for a friend. Weight is a big issue, lugging one around is heavy after a while.


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## MacDoc

Too limiting by far - get a MacBook Pro 13 and live happily ever after


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## Fox

If she is happy with the performance of her current Mac, she should be fine with the MBA, especially the one with the faster processor. She'll have a better graphics card and more RAM than she currently has, and the SSD in the Air will make it feel even faster. The stock model MBP would probably be faster because of the faster processor, and certainly more versatile in terms of future upgrades, but you are trading off weight (and monitor resolution) and if she carries it around a lot, weight is a big deal. I have no experience with the MBA, but I bought a 13" MBP two years ago to replace my 15" PowerBook G4. The smaller size and 1 1/2 lb weight saving were worth the loss in display size, and I'm still quite happy with my purchase. If I was looking at the purchase now, I would be very tempted by the MBA. The trade-off for me would be upgradability vs weight but in your case, it doesn't sound like upgradability is a big issue.


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## groovetube

MacDoc said:


> Too limiting by far - get a MacBook Pro 13 and live happily ever after


I think she may end up getting the pro.

but curious, the MBA cpu has double the l2 cache (6 as opposed to 3) has the ssd so disk intensive stuff flies more, the graphic gpu is the same, never uses firewire or optical much.

what is limiting?

I'm rather curious my self as well what the 13 pro has over the air really performance wise as both of us alway plug into a monitor, because I hate lugging this ting around too. A well known flash guy recently has been tweeting he switched to the new air for portability and loves it. Made me think, maybe not this gen, but perhaps a next one or so.


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## sarah11918

I certainly don't do graphic/video intensive work, but just for the record the 11.6" MBA is my primary (actually only) machine. There are a lot of people who say an Air (especially the small one) can't be anyone's only computer, and it's just not true. Even with my previous Macbook, I carried an external hard drive for backups. Now, I just also use that to store my photos instead of keeping them on my machine. We travel a lot, and I wouldn't trade the portability for anything.


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## MacDoc

Twice the battery life, 8 gigs of ram, full optical, full ports including Firewire 800, target mode, choice of easily replaceable upgradeable drives up to 1.5 TB internal and *cheaper......*

Sorry but the Air is a good replacement for a iPad - not a MacBook Pro.
If the Air got 10 hours of battery life and was stock with 4 gig 256 SSD at $1199 - then maybe


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## groovetube

ok,
but as stated, optical, no issue. Never uses it. firewire, non starter, she doesn't use it. ever. It's almost always plugged in at the multiple locations.

And ram, doubt she'll ever upgrade it past 4.

I was just curious about performance in general, as I'm starting to hear more and more guys doing what I do ditching the weights for something more lean and portable. Home office, to downtown office etc., it gets tiring. As cpu power goes up, I tend to benefit less from that, and more from things like disk speed.


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## Digikid

I have to agree with MacDoc. The Macbook Pro is the better buy. If you need more speed over storage you can always slap in a Vertex 2 SSD and get excellent speed and performance.

I know that you said that your wife does not need the optical drive and such....in my experience that is eactly when you DO need them....when you least expect it.


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## groovetube

ok I give up.

There can be no question that a macbook pro has more options etc. in it compared to the air.

But, this, is not the point. The point is, the air is much lighter, and much easier to carry around,

If optical, firewire and the lack of a second ram slot isn't of any real concern to you, then is the performance similar to the current 13 mbp, as the specs would show it certainly is (the cpu in the air has double the l2 cache).

To some, portability is more important than 4 gigs more of ram or the ability to use firewire. This was all, I was asking, not whether the mbp13 has more things. I already, knew this.


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## sarah11918

Hubby has the 13" as his primary machine. I have the 11" as mine. If he could have got a bigger hard drive in the 11, he would have got the 11. We both are thrilled with our choices.

Yes a more powerful machine is "a better buy" if you're just comparing $ per GB, or some other spec. But the 8 gallon jar of salsa is usually a better buy than the 500ml jar, too. It doesn't mean it's always the right purchase.

I'd bet that if someone is asking themselves whether they really need more than a MBA, then there's a good chance they don't. If you know you need higher specs, then you'll get a Pro. If you don't know that you need all that, then it's perfectly reasonable to consider an MBA, especially if size/weight/portability are at all important to you.


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## Mrsam

MacDoc said:


> Twice the battery life, 8 gigs of ram, full optical, full ports including Firewire 800, target mode, choice of easily replaceable upgradeable drives up to 1.5 TB internal and *cheaper......*
> 
> Sorry but the Air is a good replacement for a iPad - not a MacBook Pro.
> If the Air got 10 hours of battery life and was stock with 4 gig 256 SSD at $1199 - then maybe


Maybe try using one and listening the the original post. 

Groovetube, I have the exact MBA your friend would be looking at and love it. While I haven't done ID/Quark on it I have done quite a bit of PS on it and it performs really well. I've also found that the battery life can easily exceed 7 hours depending on usage. Contrary to what some have said, I actually did replace a 13" MBP with this machine and am not looking back. I have to carry it with me 5 days a week and find it to be a surprisingly quick laptop that weighs next to nothing.


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## MacDoc

I have 25 years in the Mac biz generally I look after my clients well and the price and limitations on the Air are not what I call very inspiring.
I see every day the number of Air returns to a large vendor and I understand why. Apple over hypes and over prices it.

*Did you have 8 gigs of RAM and a 250 SSD in your 13"?*

I do and I thought about bringing an Air along as a backup machine on a 3 month trip working abroad and backed away right quick.

It's too much money and has too many limitations in our view but if you are happy that's fine.

My staff is thrilled with his.....he doesn't do production.


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## Mrsam

Again, you're entirely missing the OP's point. They're asking if those applications can be used on an Air, they can.

No I don't have 8GB in my Air, I do have a 250GB SSD. I did have 8GB and a 128GB SSD in the 13" Pro. Still not looking back. Just because you've been doing something for 25 years doesn't automatically make you an expert. How long have you been doing web design?


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## milhaus

The joke of a resolution in the current 13" MBP makes it unusable as a primary machine. Even the 11" air betters it.


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## andreww

milhaus said:


> The joke of a resolution in the current 13" MBP makes it unusable as a primary machine. Even the 11" air betters it.


Really? the 11" air may have better resolution, but on a small screen its just too much. Text becomes very difficult to read and I would find myself constantly zooming in and out to read. I find the 13" MBP to be the perfect balance between size and resolution. High enough that I have plenty of real estate and big enough that I can actually see and read things.


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## groovetube

Mrsam said:


> Again, you're entirely missing the OP's point. They're asking if those applications can be used on an Air, they can.
> 
> No I don't have 8GB in my Air, I do have a 250GB SSD. I did have 8GB and a 128GB SSD in the 13" Pro. Still not looking back. Just because you've been doing something for 25 years doesn't automatically make you an expert. How long have you been doing web design?


That's precisely what I was asking. I'm fully aware the pro has features the air doesn't that many pro users can't live without, and won't. The question wasn't, 'is the air a better computer or better choice than the macbook pro', it's I have a friend who wants the lightness and portability the air offers the MBP doesn't. Can she do what she does reasonably well despite the few differences such as no firewire, 4 gig limit on the ram and no optical which I already said were totally fine.


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## Guest

I was on-site with a client today that do design work and run pretty much nothing but MBP 13" and MBA 13" machines, all with external monitor, keyboards and mice attached. I had to do some work on all the machines and pretty much every MBA user was complaining about the speed and the amount of ram, the MBP users all said that it felt fine. They aren't doing heavy design stuff ... mostly web and small documents in InDesign. In the small amounts of work I was doing with them I can say that the MBA's did feel more sluggish, even doing simple OS stuff (I was setting up backups and access to the local file server).


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## MacDoc

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Mrsam
> Again, you're entirely missing the OP's point. They're asking if those applications can be used on an Air, they can.
> 
> No I don't have 8GB in my Air, I do have a 250GB SSD. I did have 8GB and a 128GB SSD in the 13" Pro. Still not looking back. Just because you've been doing something for 25 years doesn't automatically make you an expert. How long have you been doing web design?


Seems the title is *"primary machine" *and I've been dealing with web designers since the category became a category.
We deal with a combination of value for money, feature set and capability and expandability.
The Air has too many limitations for the money and we don't recommend it as a primary machine especially for production.
The weight savings when all is said and done is not worth it to most.....and again we see way too many returns on Air ( not our clients tho a couple jumped and regretted it ).

Put the Air at the price point of the MacBook with 4 gigs 128 SSD - then you have an argument.
At $1800 - sorry - just doesn't cut it....money does come into play for most.

The question asked is it better than the MBP and the answer is no in our view.

_GT - and if you advise to get the Air and she doesn't like it???_

••••

Someone above is confusing dpi with resolution...11"/13"


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## groovetube

MacDoc said:


> Seems the title is *"primary machine" *and I've been dealing with web designers since the category became a category.
> We deal with a combination of value for money, feature set and capability and expandability.
> The Air has too many limitations for the money and we don't recommend it as a primary machine especially for production.
> The weight savings when all is said and done is not worth it to most.....and again we see way too many returns on Air ( not our clients tho a couple jumped and regretted it ).
> 
> Put the Air at the price point of the MacBook with 4 gigs 128 SSD - then you have an argument.
> At $1800 - sorry - just doesn't cut it....money does come into play for most.
> 
> *The question asked is it better than the MBP and the answer is no in our view.*
> 
> _GT - and if you advise to get the Air and she doesn't like it???_
> 
> ••••
> 
> Someone above is confusing dpi with resolution...11"/13"


Macdoc. The question is NOT is the air better than the MBP, as stated several times. We know it isn't.

Is it feasible to do really light work (mainly report layouts in indesign) and get the benefit of a really portable lightweight machine that is easier to carry around so much. She currently is very happy with her 2.16 15 mbp w/3gigs of ram. She just hates lugging it around. (me too actually but I do like the zip of the new 15)

A really well known flash guy is tweeting a lot lately about his new air, he maintains it's on par with his previous 15 mbp 2.53 in general, but way snappier in disk intensive stuff which I do a lot of too.

I'm not advising her to get it, I have told her it is no mbp (if compared to a 15~ for sure) but she really,. really wants the portability.


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## MacDoc

Tell you what - pick up a 13" from us and if she doesn't like it she can trade to the Air of her choice and only pay the difference within 2 weeks.

The 13" MPB is NOTHING like her current machine, either weight or feel or battery life and the snap he is talking about is from the SSD which quite frankly really is not needed.
The stock 13.3 MBP would likely be fine at $1249

As I said it's value for money I'm on about and to make the 13 air acceptable for Pro apps it's unacceptably costly and limited.


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## groovetube

she went ahead with an new 15. A few people told her the air was useless, but now she's unhappy about the weight. I thought it was not really worth the money to go from her current core2 duo to just another core2 duo to lose a pound and have the ability to have more ram she'll likely not bother with, and so did she. 

It really comes down to how much you value the weight(less) and portability, which is the air's market. It's kinda too bad as her work is really really light, and she really loved the lightness of the air.

What I found strange was the two guys at the apple store telling her she couldn't do what she does now with a 2.16 core2 duo with 3 gigs of ram and a 5400rpm drive on a system with the same speed processor, double the l2 cache, 4 gigs or ram, and a SSD drive.

People don't seem to listen the actual question, and focus on strictly performance. That isn't always what is important to people.


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## MacDoc

15 is way overkill - nice box for production but yep it's heavy. ( Just lugged mine a few km on my back )
At least you tried and she'll likely be very pissed when the model change comes in a few weeks......just sayin':yikes:


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## groovetube

yes she knew about it but wanted to make the jan31st deadline for 100% writeoff. Besides, I don't know that the next revision will be that spellbinding after the recent move to i5/i7s.


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## Chas3

The lack of firewire and esata, both professorial standards, would deter me from using the Air as a primary machine. Also keep in mind that Mac OS X doesn't support trim, so she will gradually experience slow down with the SSD. I would shoot for the 13" Macbook Pro for a Laptop, as it seems like she isn't doing anything completely serious however she still has the option of firewire.


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## groovetube

for the forth time, she doesn't use firewire.

Anyway, it's done.


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## Mrsam

Hard to get an answer to the question you were asking sometime isn't it? I hope your friend ends up being happy with the 15"!


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## groovetube

it truly highlights the fact that forums, is one of the worst forms of communication, ever. It's worse than playing telephone as a kid.


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## pcronin

groovetube said:


> it truly highlights the fact that forums, is one of the worst forms of communication, ever. It's worse than playing telephone as a kid.


+1000


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## Mrsam

groovetube said:


> Macdoc. The question is NOT is the air better than the MBP, as stated several times. We know it isn't.


Looks like you're off base again, Macdoc.


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## groovetube

I have a feeling if this conversation is held face to face with everyone, we'd all get it.


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## MacDoc

> Looks like you're off base again, Macdoc.


sure - try reading the titles sometime....
and note what she ended up with....
*
not an Air* and


> A few people told her the air was useless,


perhaps you are just trying to defend your own purchase decision.

The Hi-Rez matte 2.4 i5 has been the first choice for web for many with the smaller size but big power and greater resolution than the previous 15" - Apple really revived the category with that combo of power and reduced size over the 17" but more workspace than a stock 15.

- the 2.4 13" with an external screen is a neck and neck second choice. Under $1500 with a decent iSPS 23" screen that's hard to beat as a work combo - very portable and nice upgrade path with drive and ram.

We see it like the 12" G4 Powerbook was as a 5 year+ portable for many. i3 version of the 13.3 will make it all that more attractive.


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## groovetube

MacDoc said:


> perhaps you are just trying to defend your own purchase decision.
> .


???

I have a 15" i7. To say it's overkill would be the understatement.


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## Mrsam

"macbook air as a primary machine" There's the title of the original post MacDoc. Note that it's not "is a macbook pro better than a macbook air?" Maybe you should learn to read. Hey, if you could read maybe you could open up a legit business, instead of running one out of your basement.


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## groovetube

I might disagree with macdoc, this happens, but speaking as a small business owner, I really don't think we should attack his business. I've dealt with macdoc before, and regardless of where he runs out of, he is very helpful in general.


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## AlexSno

groovetube said:


> This is for a friend, but it has me interested perhaps in a next generation, since I lug my mbp everywhere it seems, the weight or lack thereof seems very enticing.
> 
> She does mostly indesign/quark stuff, but doesn't really do any real heavy lifting in photoshop in terms of huge file sizes/heavy filters etc. Currently runs a core2 duo 1.16 15 with 3 gigs of ram and is generally happy with the performance in general. But really hates the weight of the 15, the 13 pro is still a lot heavier than the air.
> 
> The air considered would be the 13 tricked out with faster cpu, 4 gigs of ram and the 256 ssd drive. I think she'd see a real bump from the ssd, and would be great for the weight/portability. Any bad stories regarding the new air?



I have some friends who are very satisfied with their choice, to be honest, before I use a Mac I watched amazement as compared to a common software, would have to learn to use the computer again. Now I come to think that I made a good choice, I`m a proud owner of a Pro 15 2.66GHz Intel ® Core i7
Cheers,
Alex


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