# Sept 15th 2009: Iphone On Telus



## adam.sn (Feb 7, 2007)

Ok... well, this isn't "official" yet... but I DO know that Telus is upgrading their network to HSPDA on Sept 15th. This is essentially 3.5G and runs on Sim cards.

They're doing this for the olympics in BC in 2010 due to the fact that there are going to be SOOO many GSM phones there from around the world and its in Telus' backyard.

I also have confirmation that an unlocked iPhone will work on this network... so even though Telus might not officially carry the iPhone, in less than a month I can pick any 3G phone I want and have it work.

Pretty awesome news


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

adam.sn said:


> Ok... well, this isn't "official" yet... but I DO know that Telus is upgrading their network to HSPDA on Sept 15th. This is essentially 3.5G and runs on Sim cards.
> 
> They're doing this for the olympics in BC in 2010 due to the fact that there are going to be SOOO many GSM phones there from around the world and its in Telus' backyard.
> 
> ...


Rumors also say Bell is doing the same.. but either way - i still think those two are worse than Rogers..  but the 3 of them combined are like Mafia - taking advantage of us all regardless.


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## adam.sn (Feb 7, 2007)

macintosh doctor said:


> Rumors also say Bell is doing the same.. but either way - i still think those two are worse than Rogers..  but the 3 of them combined are like Mafia - taking advantage of us all regardless.


Well since Bell and Telus share the same network it wouldn't surprise me in the least. Finally some competition.


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

adam.sn said:


> Well since Bell and Telus share the same network it wouldn't surprise me in the least. Finally some competition.


Nothing personal intended, but your sentence seems kindof like an oxymoron.

If Bell and Telus share the same network - it will mean LESS choice and LESS competition for the "big 3", who have already repeatedly been accused of colluding on pricing/etc...

There may well be more competition in terms of iPhone Plan/Data plan pricing - but I'd bet that Bell/Telus iPhone offering will be similar to what Rogers is offering.

At least there's "wind" - the new Global-live GSM cellular provider, also supposedly launching this fall - that will hopefully actually spur some competition.


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## GregoriusM (Jun 7, 2008)

As I said in another thread, as I've read in many other threads on other forums, the way that Telus and Bell are setting things up does not allow for fall-back where there is not 3G or 3.5G signal, where GSM can fall back to Edge. They have to fall back to CDMA and the iPhone does not suppor that.

Correct me if I'm wrong and show me where you've gotten the information.

Thanks.


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## lewdvig (Nov 20, 2003)

If publicly announced and discussed in shareholder meetings every quarter for about two years is a rumor, then yes this is a 'rumor.'


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## Trevor... (Feb 21, 2003)

I held a fully functional iPhone on Telus in my hand in July.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

Trevor... said:


> I held a fully functional iPhone on Telus in my hand in July.


In your hand……? For how long?


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## Trevor... (Feb 21, 2003)

Less than a minute, it was an unlocked AT&T model.


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## GregoriusM (Jun 7, 2008)

Trevor... said:


> Less than a minute, it was an unlocked AT&T model.


Fully functional? How could you tell in one minute? You couldn't have had time to see if it was able to be used properly where there was no 3.5G coverage. I'll believe Telus and Bell can fully support the iPhone when I hear the experiences of multiple users.


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## pookerjams (Sep 12, 2009)

*HSPA is here...3.5G*

This new network is already here...by the way I work for Telus and this network had a soft launch in the Lower Mainland of BC. Telus is testing out all HSPA phones down there, and the iPhone could be included, but a customer who had his hands on one that worked on Telus before this date probably not likely unless he lives in Vancouver.

Nationwide the new HSPA network will be launched in early 2010, so they hope anyway. With new system changes in our database, we have already seen whats going to be happening in the next few months. This is why Telus has been experiencing a lot of issues with texting, wireless web services etc, to prepare for the new network.

In some cities Telus's new HSPA network can be found using your Rogers phone, the network will come up in a series of digits, and this network is blocked so really there is no point in trying to connect to it.

Oh but don't work CDMA users, you will still have the most coverage in Canada, HSPA users will have nothing to rely on if the network crashes and HSPA devices will not fall back to CDMA towers. Telus hasn't setup any agreements with Rogers to use their GSM towers to fall back on, so if you have no service with your HSPA phone, your screwed. 

It's just like A'mp D Mobile, when Telus bought them out, the devices only worked on EVDO towers, so if you had no EVDO service where you live(which most areas of Telus has now), the phone was useless, oh and I guess the same goes with Mike phones, no IDEN, no cell service=pretty pissed off customer. This is WHY Telus is taking its sweet time launching this network, two years in the making!! It's well worth the wait if you ask me!:clap:


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## eric72 (Jul 29, 2008)

pookerjams said:


> This new network is already here...by the way I work for Telus and this network had a soft launch in the Lower Mainland of BC. Telus is testing out all HSPA phones down there, and the iPhone could be included, but a customer who had his hands on one that worked on Telus before this date probably not likely unless he lives in Vancouver.
> 
> Nationwide the new HSPA network will be launched in early 2010, so they hope anyway. With new system changes in our database, we have already seen whats going to be happening in the next few months. This is why Telus has been experiencing a lot of issues with texting, wireless web services etc, to prepare for the new network.
> 
> ...


I've heard from a couple of reliable sources (from Telus) that the refit and testing was way ahead of schedule, that the new network was slated to be full operational by this month. Earlier or later is yet to be confirmed. As well, the iPhone would be available Oct or Nov. Not sure what you are privy to. But my sources work for depts that would be privy to this info. Not to mention Telus store employees who are very amped about the iPhone, discreetly leaking what they have been told. Interesting what "geek talk" will get you. lol


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## Trevor... (Feb 21, 2003)

The person in possession of the iPhone was a relatively senior Telus employee, 

Telus HSPA towers have been active for months, got an HSPA phone?

Do a network search and you will find in many places a network with the MNC 302-880, this is Telus/Bell HSPA. 

You can't connect to it without an authorized SIM, but Bellus HSPA towers have been active in some places since March, maybe earlier.


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## satchmo (May 26, 2005)

Spoke to an official at a local Telus sponsored small business networking event tonight. Asked her where they were with 3G and 4G wireless networks. 

She smiled and said there are big wireless announcements coming really soon...by soon she said before Christmas.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

And yet here we are in October with the thread title already proven a lie, and some are still gullible enough to believe it ...


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## Trevor... (Feb 21, 2003)

Something was up, Telus themselves was advertising something big for September 15th for a time over the summer.





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


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## AgentX (Jan 17, 2008)

That wound up being an announcement for "Telus Tuesdays" at Cineplex theatres. Some half-price movie deal or something. Definitely not worth all the hype, especially with all the rumours floating around.

I almost wonder if they did it just to taunt us...


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Here in BC they've been promoting Blackberries for the kids (literally -- with baby goats and everything!) and talking up their new ability to be a television provider. Neither of which have anything to do with the iPhone.


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## bsenka (Jan 27, 2009)

chas_m said:


> And yet here we are in October with the thread title already proven a lie, and some are still gullible enough to believe it ...


Thread title aside, Telus has been telling their customers Oct for several months now, so they still have a few weeks to deliver on that. Delays in implementing the infrastructure don't qualify as a lie in my opinion anyway. Unforeseen circumstances happen when rolling out something this big. That's why even though some Telus employees have let a few of the details slip out, there has been no official announcement yet.


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## depmode101 (Sep 4, 2002)

September 15th brought us Telus Tuesdays at the theatre - perhaps October will bring us telus Thursdays - discount taco bell or something.

Even with a GSM network - does anyone know if Rogers signed an exclusivity agreement with Apple to have the iPhone for a period of time?


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## bsenka (Jan 27, 2009)

depmode101 said:


> September 15th brought us Telus Tuesdays at the theatre - perhaps October will bring us telus Thursdays - discount taco bell or something.
> 
> Even with a GSM network - does anyone know if Rogers signed an exclusivity agreement with Apple to have the iPhone for a period of time?


I don't believe so. They were in a position where they didn't have to due to being the only GSM carrier at the time. I don't think they anticipated that the other carriers would ramp up their 3G/$g implementations so quickly.


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## eric72 (Jul 29, 2008)

depmode101 said:


> September 15th brought us Telus Tuesdays at the theatre - perhaps October will bring us telus Thursdays - discount taco bell or something.
> 
> Even with a GSM network - does anyone know if Rogers signed an exclusivity agreement with Apple to have the iPhone for a period of time?


I believe Rogers did sign an exclusive agreement that they would be the only ones carrying the iPhone on their GSM network. However, one can argue HSPA and GSM are different networks, andI can't see Apple turning down the opportunity for their product to be available to the rest of the cellular community in Canada.


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## eric72 (Jul 29, 2008)

chas_m said:


> And yet here we are in October with the thread title already proven a lie, and some are still gullible enough to believe it ...


Well, it is only the 3rd day of Ocotober. They projected Oct or Nov, and even if it was for Oct, they didn't specify when this month. For all we know it could be closer to the end.

The iPhone is a huge announcement to Bell and Telus customers. Of course they aren't going to prematurely announce that news. New BBs and other smartphones aren't "iPhone news" quality. That's like the appetizers before the main course scenario.

As much as I'd hate to say this, but think about it, you tell everyone about the new network and (except for the iPhone) they have all these new smartphones. Better than previous CDMA generation. People who don't know, will swallow that up, buying new phones, setting up new services. Then bam, they announce the iPhone a little while later. Now you have the same people, thinking or wanting to switch. Mo money, mo money, mo money. Hence why I'm waiting patiently.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

eric72 said:


> They projected Oct or Nov, and even if it was for Oct, they didn't specify when this month. For all we know it could be closer to the end.


If "they" projected Oct or Nov, why does the thread title read 15-September: iPhone on Telus?

That was kinda my point.

It's possible that someday -- possibly soon in a very limited area (think Olympics) -- Telus and/or Bell will roll out a network that is iPhone-compatible. That's not the same as officially selling the iPhone, but it's a start.

Possibly someday the iPhone will be available from carriers other than Rogers, though I'd be quite surprised if Rogers had been stupid enough not to require an exclusive deal for a period of time as AT&T did. That doesn't sound much like Rogers, does it?

Don't get me wrong: I am ALL FOR competition in the cell phone arena. I just don't see where it's "just around the corner," especially after reading these sorts of predictions for six months or more now. Call me a skeptic, but a shift in the cell-phone landscape that big would be (it seems to me) very hard to keep under wraps. HowEver, if nobody else, would be all over it if it were really about to happen.

He's the weathervane to watch on this issue, IMHO.


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## eric72 (Jul 29, 2008)

chas_m said:


> If "they" projected Oct or Nov, why does the thread title read 15-September: iPhone on Telus?
> 
> That was kinda my point.
> 
> ...


I can't argue with your sentiments. Quite possible the original poster didn't have all the info, or was given the wrong info. But it is fact that Telus has been testing the network in BC for a little while now, and because of the preliminary success, Telus has suggested an earlier nationwide activation (the original projected date was early next year).

If one were to factor in the Olympics, Telus and Bell would not want to miss out on larger coverage during the Olympics. Also, to only launch the new network in that part of the country would be bias, and cause much conflict with the rest of Canadian subscribers. So it's not hard to find valid truth of an early nationwide launch to get all the kinks out in an official implementation of the HSPA network before the Olympics. That being said, it's also not hard to believe that once the HSPA network is fully operational, ALL HSPA compatible phones will be ready for retail.

I'm just basing my thoughts on what was relayed (in a not so direct way) from Telus employees. Obviously, it was big enough news that some people couldn't contain themselves, especially to close friends. The sales people, maybe questionable intel. But not from the friends at Telus HQ. As one would get the "nudge, nudge, wink, wink". lol

With all the rumors and "credible" info flying around, it's hard to dismiss a full launch and availability of HSPA phones (including the iPhone) before 2010. But in all fairness, until it's actually on the shelves and working, only time will tell. 

Some interesting read:

```
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/08/26/gsma-spills-beans-on-september-launch-for-telus-hspa-network/

http://mobilesyrup.com/2009/08/25/gsma-website-confirms-september-telus-hspa-launch/

http://mobilesyrup.com/2009/09/03/say-hello-to-the-telus-hspa-sim-card/

http://www.thestar.com/business/article/656939
```


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

eric72 said:


> ...Also, to only launch the new network in that part of the country would be bias, and cause much conflict with the rest of Canadian subscribers...


Do you really think that Telus/Bell cares whose feelings they bruise?

If push comes to shove, the Olympics will have coverage even if nowhere else does.


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## eric72 (Jul 29, 2008)

FeXL said:


> Do you really think that Telus/Bell cares whose feelings they bruise?
> 
> If push comes to shove, the Olympics will have coverage even if nowhere else does.


At this time and age, when every provider is doing all they can to retain their current subscribers, as well as win new ones, I would definitely say they "care". Rogers currently has the market on GSM network. It took Telus and Bell realizing that they need to work together to keep up with the competition, and provide better services. They are definitely serious about this. I don't think they are that arrogant and ignorant to play around like that.

Think about it, all that money and time spent on creating a new network to expand their services, and they are only going to make it available to the western part of Canada for the Olympics? I don't know about the rest of the nation, but if that happened, I'd cancel and move to Rogers the day of. In a business point of view, it's in their best interest to care, they can't afford not to.


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## jonanddad (Oct 6, 2009)

Looks like it will be on telus TELUS | the future is friendly


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## adam.sn (Feb 7, 2007)

I should change my name to Nostradamus. Jk 

I'm sure we all saw this coming.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

It's great that they got the network up ahead of schedule (which was, as I suggested, aimed at the Olympics timetable). And I'm happy to have been wrong about them not offering the iPhone for while yet. Man, Rogers was just plain dumb not getting an exclusivity clause, but hey -- it's Rogers!

As an advocate for more cell phone competition in Canada, I hope this introduces better pricing (particularly on data).


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## daniels (Jul 27, 2009)

yea i hope telus has a huge price diffrence on the plans then rogers will have to drop their prices.


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## adam.sn (Feb 7, 2007)

chas_m said:


> It's great that they got the network up ahead of schedule (which was, as I suggested, aimed at the Olympics timetable). And I'm happy to have been wrong about them not offering the iPhone for while yet. Man, Rogers was just plain dumb not getting an exclusivity clause, but hey -- it's Rogers!
> 
> As an advocate for more cell phone competition in Canada, I hope this introduces better pricing (particularly on data).


No kidding... I'm wondering if Telus will require that you be on some sort of "iPhone data plan" because i highly doubt that they'll let me continue my unlimited data $15 a month plan on an iPhone. Only time will tell...

I'll keep you all posted as I'll be hopping on board the day it comes out.


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## mc3251 (Sep 28, 2007)

I want to know what sort of initial deals Telus and Bell will offer to "lure" existing Rogers customers away.


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## MacAndy (May 17, 2004)

I wonder what the cost to cancel a Rogers iPhone plan would be, considering I've only had it two months.

Would I be able to call Rogers and demand some sort of rollback on my charges if the Bell and Telus plans are significantly lower? Or negotiate better plan service?

Considering the crap I went through with Rogers I'm hoping I'll be able to do *something*!


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## polywog (Aug 9, 2007)

MacAndy said:


> I wonder what the cost to cancel a Rogers iPhone plan would be, considering I've only had it two months.
> 
> Would I be able to call Rogers and demand some sort of rollback on my charges if the Bell and Telus plans are significantly lower? Or negotiate better plan service?
> 
> Considering the crap I went through with Rogers I'm hoping I'll be able to do *something*!


It's $20/month up to $400 with Bell. Not sure if that's also Roger's policy.


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## whatiwant (Feb 21, 2008)

polywog said:


> It's $20/month up to $400 with Bell. Not sure if that's also Roger's policy.


Same as rogers smartphone ecf. (iphone, and others)

might be better off calling retentions to cancel if bell or telus offer better plan rates. however, i'd expect par for the course on this one. ie. all companies pacing one another.


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## eric72 (Jul 29, 2008)

Coming from anywhere else, I would have been as much a skeptic as the next guy, a hopeful skeptic. But when I heard from a couple of friends from Telus HQ, and knowing the depts they worked in, I knew it wasn't "rumour". I was hoping it would be available this month. But from the release news, it looks like a November launch of the new network, with the iPhone being available at the same time.

I'm stoked! Definitely will bring some rates down for competition. Just have to remember though, you can't just pick up any open GSM phones and expect it to work with the new network. It has to have HSPA compatibility on the box. Sucks, as there are plenty of iPhone 3G owners looking to sell their older phones to buy the newer ones. Oh well, as long as I can now have the iPhone under Telus.


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## eric72 (Jul 29, 2008)

MacAndy said:


> I wonder what the cost to cancel a Rogers iPhone plan would be, considering I've only had it two months.
> 
> Would I be able to call Rogers and demand some sort of rollback on my charges if the Bell and Telus plans are significantly lower? Or negotiate better plan service?
> 
> Considering the crap I went through with Rogers I'm hoping I'll be able to do *something*!


If you've been a longtime customer, you can call retention and get them to match whatever Telus or Bell has to offer. My company has corp plans with Rogers and Bell, I got Telus to match either one. Got the better deal with matching Bells plan.

Not sure if they will help you if you haven't been with them very long. But it doesn't hurt to try. Can't see why they wouldn't, now with the competition neck and neck with them. But if you decide to cancel before your contract is up, it's probably the same as Telus, $20 for each month remaining on your contract or $200, whichever is more. Or you can wait till you reach 6 months before your contract is up, at which time you can renegotiate your plan without any penalties.


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## eric72 (Jul 29, 2008)

adam.sn said:


> No kidding... I'm wondering if Telus will require that you be on some sort of "iPhone data plan" because i highly doubt that they'll let me continue my unlimited data $15 a month plan on an iPhone. Only time will tell...
> 
> I'll keep you all posted as I'll be hopping on board the day it comes out.


You never know. If you've been a long time customer, can't see why they wouldn't. A plan is a plan. However, they might get you on the "it's a whole new network now, features have to change, here are the new package deals". I would keep an eye out for Rogers and Bell plans, if they are better get Telus to match.

Unlimited data plan for $15? Wow, that's a really good deal. How much do you pay in total, if you don't mind me asking.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Both the iPhone 3GS and 3G are HSPA capable. Not sure if there is a difference in their ability to capitalize on the network speed.Rogers advertises 7.2 MB/s but it's unclear how widespread that is. Presumably, the Bellus 3.5G network is more up-to-date since it's built from scratch.

iPhone:
UMTS/HSDPA (850, 1900, 2100 MHz)
GSM/EDGE (850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz)
Wi-Fi (802.11b/g)


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## adam.sn (Feb 7, 2007)

eric72 said:


> You never know. If you've been a long time customer, can't see why they wouldn't. A plan is a plan. However, they might get you on the "it's a whole new network now, features have to change, here are the new package deals". I would keep an eye out for Rogers and Bell plans, if they are better get Telus to match.
> 
> Unlimited data plan for $15? Wow, that's a really good deal. How much do you pay in total, if you don't mind me asking.



Well, I used to work for Telus and Future Shop so I was able to put together a super hybrid plan.

For around $55 (taxes in) a month I get

300 daytime, unl eve & weekend at 6
Voice mail 25, Caller ID & Unlimited texting
Unlimited incoming calls
Unlimited Data.

Not too shabby  

So I'm really hoping that they'll let me keep that!


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## bsenka (Jan 27, 2009)

eric72 said:


> Unlimited data plan for $15? Wow, that's a really good deal..


That's the normal price for unlimited data with Telus if you know to ask for it (they don't advertise it or put it on the web site anymore).


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## eric72 (Jul 29, 2008)

bsenka said:


> That's the normal price for unlimited data with Telus if you know to ask for it (they don't advertise it or put it on the web site anymore).


That's good to know. Thanks for that info. A lot of companies like doing that. Hidden gems that the average customer doesn't know about.

I thought the cheapest data plan was around $40, on top of your regular service.


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## mc3251 (Sep 28, 2007)

jawknee said:


> Same as rogers smartphone ecf. (iphone, and others)
> 
> might be better off calling retentions to cancel if bell or telus offer better plan rates. however, i'd expect par for the course on this one. ie. all companies pacing one another.


This is why I'm wondering if Telus/Bell incentives might include some sort of switching allowance or discount.


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## mc3251 (Sep 28, 2007)

the competition will mostly be about marketing and ever more complicated bundling, which should create a general state of confusion for all.


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## eric72 (Jul 29, 2008)

I'm sure Telus and Bell will have some promotional bundles, or at the very least be able to match the competition's rates.

Not very confusing at all if you know what you want, and don't cave towards someone telling you what *they* want *you* to accept. Your the customer, and within reason, you should get what your looking for. Especially if the competing provider offers it. Doesn't hurt to fight for what you want. The worse that can happen is they say no. In which case gives you all the more reason to switch. Which is the last thing any provider wants.

Telus, in my case, has always been accommodating with me. If they can't exactly match another plan, they have certainly provided something very comparable and acceptable. Throw in a free phone, or at a good discount and your laughing.


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## whatiwant (Feb 21, 2008)

eric72 said:


> I'm sure Telus and Bell will have some promotional bundles, or at the very least be able to match the competition's rates.
> 
> Not very confusing at all if you know what you want, and don't cave towards someone telling you what *they* want *you* to accept. Your the customer, and within reason, you should get what your looking for. Especially if the competing provider offers it. Doesn't hurt to fight for what you want. The worse that can happen is they say no. In which case gives you all the more reason to switch. Which is the last thing any provider wants.
> 
> Telus, in my case, has always been accommodating with me. If they can't exactly match another plan, they have certainly provided something very comparable and acceptable. Throw in a free phone, or at a good discount and your laughing.


man... *your* absolutely right
beejacon


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## adam.sn (Feb 7, 2007)

Yeah, telus has always been accommodating.


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## mc3251 (Sep 28, 2007)

eric72 said:


> Not very confusing at all if you know what you want, and don't cave towards someone telling you what *they* want *you* to accept. Your the customer, and within reason, you should get what your looking for.


I have nothing to say in this regard about Telus. 
I was in the mall the other day and they had the Rogers' plan options. It was a huge sheet of laminated cardboard, printed on both sides, that laid out all of the various options for voice, voice and data, extras, long distance, etc, bundles. It was a dizzying array and quantity of options, that would overwhelm all but the most dedicated detail freak.
It is hard to know what you want exactly, without knowing at least partly what your options are. The situation gets MORE difficult when you are looking for an iPhone because then you have the vendor calling Rogers for support/advice, and they aren't very effective at that, for sure. Cell bundling is like cable bundling-it is ostensibly presented as money savings, but what it really does is force you to buy things you don't want in order to avoid going completely a la carte and paying through the nose.


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## mc3251 (Sep 28, 2007)

adam.sn said:


> Well, I used to work for Telus and Future Shop so I was able to put together a super hybrid plan.
> 
> For around $55 (taxes in) a month I get
> 
> ...


Incredible deal!


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## genexxa (Jun 10, 2006)

adam.sn said:


> For around $55 (taxes in) a month I get
> 
> 300 daytime, unl eve & weekend at 6
> Voice mail 25, Caller ID & Unlimited texting
> ...


WOW  This is what I want!!!


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## Eric0 (Nov 22, 2007)

Good luck getting that amazing plan. Telus wouldn't match the Rogers corporate plan a friend of mine had. The retention rep was like "uhh sir, nobody has a plan like that. I have friends at Rogers."

Offering to fax in the contact didn't help either.


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## adam.sn (Feb 7, 2007)

Eric0 said:


> Good luck getting that amazing plan. Telus wouldn't match the Rogers corporate plan a friend of mine had. The retention rep was like "uhh sir, nobody has a plan like that. I have friends at Rogers."
> 
> Offering to fax in the contact didn't help either.


Well, luckily for me my plan is on telus. I'll write an article about getting stellar plans in a bit.


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## bsenka (Jan 27, 2009)

Eric0 said:


> Good luck getting that amazing plan. Telus wouldn't match the Rogers corporate plan a friend of mine had. The retention rep was like "uhh sir, nobody has a plan like that. I have friends at Rogers."
> 
> Offering to fax in the contact didn't help either.


Check out the retention plans threads on Howard Forums, Telus is REALLY good about matching if not beating competitor's rates. You can get almost anything if you know to ask for it. They consistently will honor rate plans that aren't even offered any more. I was able to get the Supertalk 10 plan long after it was mothballed, just by asking.


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## daniels (Jul 27, 2009)

Eric0 said:


> Good luck getting that amazing plan. Telus wouldn't match the Rogers corporate plan a friend of mine had. The retention rep was like "uhh sir, nobody has a plan like that. I have friends at Rogers."
> 
> Offering to fax in the contact didn't help either.


Telus will lower price for what ever it is to keep the customer happy. And yes almost 95% of the customer service representatives are really nice and you can bargain about the price. :clap:


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

daniels said:


> Telus will lower price for what ever it is to keep the customer happy. And yes almost 95% of the customer service representatives are really nice and you can bargain about the price. :clap:


Is Telus cellular & Telus land lines the same company?

'Cause if they are, Telus land line couldn't come close to touching what the competition had to offer.

And they most certainly were not in the bargaining mood...


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## daniels (Jul 27, 2009)

FeXL said:


> Is Telus cellular & Telus land lines the same company?
> 
> 'Cause if they are, Telus land line couldn't come close to touching what the competition had to offer.
> 
> And they most certainly were not in the bargaining mood...


Oh darn i guess i didn't think of that


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## KMPhotos (Jun 17, 2008)

FeXL said:


> Is Telus cellular & Telus land lines the same company?
> 
> 'Cause if they are, Telus land line couldn't come close to touching what the competition had to offer.
> 
> And they most certainly were not in the bargaining mood...


I've never dealt with Telus Mobility, but you are right about Telus Home Phone. They won't even try to match the competition. I now pay $25 dollars less a month than I did with Telus and get more features and a much better long distance rate.
When I asked if they would match the price because I'd been with them forever, they told me no, we can't do anything for you. So I took my business elsewhere.
Maybe Telus Mobility is a little different.


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## mc3251 (Sep 28, 2007)

IMO Telus Mobility "gets" that they have to compete, so they try to do just that. The landline part of their business was a monopoly for so long that I think they still believe they own the market. 
None of the big companies are much fun to deal with in my experience.


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## eric72 (Jul 29, 2008)

adam.sn said:


> Well, luckily for me my plan is on telus. I'll write an article about getting stellar plans in a bit.


I've figured out my own way the last couple of years. But would be really interested to know yours.


----------



## eric72 (Jul 29, 2008)

Eric0 said:


> Good luck getting that amazing plan. Telus wouldn't match the Rogers corporate plan a friend of mine had. The retention rep was like "uhh sir, nobody has a plan like that. I have friends at Rogers."
> 
> Offering to fax in the contact didn't help either.


Really, that's very surprising. The company I work for has corporate plans with both Rogers and Bell, Telus matched the best one (after I faxed them the plan), which was bell. AND they added a couple of extra features, gave me a huge discount on my current phone, as well as knock off another few bucks of my monthly.

There is a right way and a wrong way to approach the situation. The wrong way is being demanding. The right way is being humble and considerate, but at the same time firm with conviction. Meaning your willing to work with them to find a compromise, but if they out right refuse, you have no problem jumping ship and moving with the company with the better deal.

And really, everyone wants the best bang for their buck. Everyone. You go to where you can get that. They know that, they know that you know, that they know you know that. It's just good business sense.


----------



## GregoriusM (Jun 7, 2008)

eric72 said:


> Coming from anywhere else, I would have been as much a skeptic as the next guy, a hopeful skeptic. But when I heard from a couple of friends from Telus HQ, and knowing the depts they worked in, I knew it wasn't "rumour". I was hoping it would be available this month. But from the release news, it looks like a November launch of the new network, with the iPhone being available at the same time.
> 
> I'm stoked! Definitely will bring some rates down for competition. Just have to remember though, you can't just pick up any open GSM phones and expect it to work with the new network. It has to have HSPA compatibility on the box. Sucks, as there are plenty of iPhone 3G owners looking to sell their older phones to buy the newer ones. Oh well, as long as I can now have the iPhone under Telus.


I thought I'd use your comment as the basis for my question, which I've asked in lots of places, and haven't gotten any answers.

GSM! From what I know, Telus/Bell iPhones, and any other GSM phones will NOT be able to fall back to Edge when the 3G signal drops, whether in spots in the big cities, or when you want to go out of town where there is only Edge.

So, WHY would anyone want to buy an iPhone from Telus or Bell?

I'm sure there is an answer, but I haven't gotten one yet.

Are people happy enough to have their phones (including the new smartphones that are coming to Telus/Bell too) work only when they get a 3G lock, and don't mind losing connection in places where they could fall back to Edge?

Can anybody weigh in on this?

Everyone is talking about Rate Plans, and no one is talking about the lack of fallback to Edge.

Talk to ME! 

Thanks.

Greg


----------



## AgentXXL (May 2, 2008)

GregoriusM said:


> Everyone is talking about Rate Plans, and no one is talking about the lack of fallback to Edge.


I'm fairly certain that Belus will be rolling their LTE network out to all major corridors, not just cities. I do think that will take some additional time, but according to past press releases (at least one I recall from Telus), they intend to have LTE coverage in all of the same areas that they currently have CDMA. If I recall correctly, the plan was to have the nationwide LTE network in place by mid-2010.

The rollout planned for next month will likely only include major cities and corridors like the Trans-Canada highway. And of course, full coverage throughout the lower mainland and all the way to Whistler by January. I have little doubt that they'll fall short of this goal as the intention is for them to share in the profits from roaming visitors for the Olympics.

Regardless, there will be complaints from early adopters when they realize that their Belus iPhones (and other devices) have this short-term limitation. I would guess that Belus would have thought this through already and will likely have statements about the available coverage during the launch. I guess we'll know by the end of November (i.e. a Nov. launch is a given, but that doesn't mean it will happen Nov. 1st - it could happen Nov. 30th). Only time will tell...

Personally, I hope there is enough capability to really heat up the competitive forefront. I suspect the initial drive will be to retain existing customers, but with any luck, they'll make attractive offers for those considering a switch from Rogers/Fido. 

I specifically hope that they'll offer to carrier unlock our iPhones if we switch. It won't be very appealing to switchers if we have to buy new Bell/Telus locked iPhones, especially if some of us (like me) bit the bullet and bought a new 3GS recently. The ECF for both data and voice will be bad enough without having to shell out for a new branded and possibly carrier locked iPhone. 

Again, only time will tell.


----------



## eric72 (Jul 29, 2008)

GregoriusM said:


> I thought I'd use your comment as the basis for my question, which I've asked in lots of places, and haven't gotten any answers.
> 
> GSM! From what I know, Telus/Bell iPhones, and any other GSM phones will NOT be able to fall back to Edge when the 3G signal drops, whether in spots in the big cities, or when you want to go out of town where there is only Edge.
> 
> ...


From my understanding the new HSPA+ network being implemented by Telus and Bell, is an upgrade to the HSPA network widely used by Rogers. Rogers has recently implemented an upgrade to their network but is only available in 5 cities across Canada. Telus/Bell will have a wider coverage to begin with, and will only get larger as time rolls on. That's the advantage of teaming up with Bell. It's expected by February 2010 (Olympics) to have majority coverage nationwide. That's the projection anyway. As well CDMA phones will work with the new HSPA network.

Why would anyone want to buy an iPhone from Telus or Bell? Well, the new network is more up to date, faster, larger 3G coverage, and competitive rates. Rogers has been milking their customers for quite some time now, and a lot people are very upset and frustrated. But, until now, no one else in Canada had 3G coverage. Now Candians have more options. The next few months should prove very interesting in terms of what will be available by all providers. I can only seeing customers benefit from this now competitive market.

As for the "Edge" question, it's only available through AT&T, so really has no relevance in Canada. That would be a roaming issue you would need to clarify with AT&T. But according to my sources at Telus, if HSPA network gets dropped with their service, it will automatically default to GSM (which is the EDGE equivalent your referring to). There should be sufficient coverage for GSM. Now some will say "I thought HSPA is GSM." HSPA is a faster version of the currently used 3G network. Then new "Belus" HSPA network is a hybrid of HSPA and CDMA.


----------



## AgentXXL (May 2, 2008)

eric72 said:


> As well CDMA phones will work with the new HSPA network.
> 
> ....
> 
> As for the "Edge" question, it's only available through AT&T, so really has no relevance in Canada. That would be a roaming issue you would need to clarify with AT&T. But according to my sources at Telus, if HSPA network gets dropped with their service, it will automatically default to GSM (which is the EDGE equivalent your referring to). There should be sufficient coverage for GSM. Now some will say "I thought HSPA is GSM." HSPA is a faster version of the currently used 3G network. Then new "Belus" HSPA network is a hybrid of HSPA and CDMA.


Sorry Eric, you have a few facts wrong. Your statement that CDMA phones will work on the new network is incorrect. This is a common misunderstanding. CDMA phones will continue to work, but not on the new LTE network. The new LTE network leverages UMTS technology by using WCDMA to enhance bandwidth. This doesn't mean CDMA phones will work on the LTE network. The evolution path for cellular took two routes that are now merging into a single network topology:

AMPS/TAC - 1st generation cellular technology which used FDMA (frequency division multiple access)

GSM - 2G technology using TDMA (time division multiple access) using GPRS
CDMA - 2G technology using CDMA (code division multiple access)

EDGE - Enhanced Data rate for GSM Evolution - 2.5G technology
CDMA2000 1x - 2.5G technology for CDMA networks

HSDPA - 3G technology using wideband CDMA on UMTS networks (now called HSPA) with fallback to GSM/GPRS/EDGE
EVDO 1x - EVolution-Data Optimized - 3G technology for CDMA networks with fallback to CDMA2000 1x

LTE - 4G 'Long Term Evolution' - common to all carriers and provides a modern, flat IP based network starting with HSPA+ technology

It is very confusing for the consumer since both CDMA and GSM networks can/will use WCDMA (HSPA and HSPA+) to move forward. Unfortunately phones that are built around GSM technology can't fallback on a CDMA2000 network and vice versa.

What this means for Bell and Telus is that they can continue to support customers on their CDMA20001x/EVDO1x networks and allow customers to move towards LTE with newer phones that use HSPA and HSPA+. Rogers is also updating its network to HSPA+ as part of its initial LTE offering. They state they will have the network upgraded in major cities and throughout the lower mainland and the corridor to Whistler before the winter olympics in February 2010.

To summarize:

3G GSM phones like the iPhone will use HSPA (and HSPA+) and will fallback to EDGE (current Rogers/Fido network)
3G phones on the new HSPA+ Belus network will have no fallback
3G EVDO 1x phones will fallback to CDMA2000 1x (current Bell/Telus networks)

The older network technologies like CDMA2000 1x and EDGE will eventually be phased out as LTE networks grow and users upgrade to the new technology phones.

For more in-depth information on the evolution of cellular technology, take a look at the 'Evolution' section in the following PDF:

http://www.site.uottawa.ca/~ivan/cellular.pdf


----------



## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

This is an excellent summary.

And it's very practical: Rogers and fido GSM phones, like the iPhone 3G and 3GS, can fallback to EDGE and even GPRS. Bell and Telus iPhone 3GS will not do this since Bell and Telus do not have EDGE and GPRS networks.





AgentXXL said:


> To summarize:
> 
> 3G GSM phones like the iPhone will use HSPA (and HSPA+) and will fallback to EDGE (current Rogers/Fido network)
> 3G phones on the new HSPA+ Belus network will have no fallback
> 3G EVDO 1x phones will fallback to CDMA2000 1x (current Bell/Telus networks)


----------



## eric72 (Jul 29, 2008)

Interesting. Good to know for future reference. I'm just basing my info on what I've read, and what I'm told by Telus contacts (which haven't been wrong with me).

I'm a little confused though. You said:

```
HSDPA - 3G technology using wideband CDMA on UMTS networks (now called HSPA) [B]with fallback to GSM/GPRS/EDGE[/B]
```
So this means that an iPhone from Telus or Bell *will* have a fallback. As I mentioned.

As well:

```
LTE - 4G 'Long Term Evolution' - common to all carriers and provides a modern, flat IP based network starting with HSPA+ technology
```
This is the long term goal of Telus (I guess for Bell and Rogers too). Again, from reliable sources, no date has been set for this. But wouldn't be surprised late next year. But right now the new network they are implementing is still considered 3G. Supporting both 3G and 3Gs. Not yet 4G.

So I'm inclined to believe that if I bought an iPhone from Telus, and I go to a place with out HSPA+ coverage, it will still work. Just slower. As well, if I decide to keep my current CDMA phone for a while longer after the new network is up and running, it will still be functional.

Thanks though for that info, it nice to see a summarized break down. Easier to understand.

Here's a related link.

```
http://www.cellphones.ca/news/post004246/
```


----------



## AgentXXL (May 2, 2008)

eric72 said:


> I'm a little confused though. You said:
> 
> ```
> HSDPA - 3G technology using wideband CDMA on UMTS networks (now called HSPA) [B]with fallback to GSM/GPRS/EDGE[/B]
> ...


Unfortunately not... I did clarify that in a later paragraph - wideband CDMA (WCDMA) is used by both CDMA and GSM/UMTS networks but a CDMA phone cannot use GSM/UMTS infrastructure with WCDMA technology and vice versa. 

Whew... that's a mouthful! 



eric72 said:


> As well:
> 
> ```
> LTE - 4G 'Long Term Evolution' - common to all carriers and provides a modern, flat IP based network starting with HSPA+ technology
> ```


Although HSPA+ is the first step towards LTE, it really should be considered as 3.5G... and it will be the fallback for future LTE based phones.



eric72 said:


> But right now the new network they are implementing is still considered 3G. Supporting both 3G and 3Gs. Not yet 4G.
> 
> So I'm inclined to believe that if I bought an iPhone from Telus, and I go to a place with out HSPA+ coverage, it will still work. Just slower. As well, if I decide to keep my current CDMA phone for a while longer after the new network is up and running, it will still be functional.


You're correct about your CDMA phone, but again, there will be no fallback for HSPA+ phones on the Belus network. Given that Belus want to make a grand entrance to this arena, they will no doubt do their best to make sure there are few, if any, lacks in coverage. Any coverage issues are very likely to be short term for those in the major cities and corridors.



eric72 said:


> Thanks though for that info, it nice to see a summarized break down. Easier to understand.
> 
> Here's a related link.
> 
> ...


Glad to have been coherent enough to get that out in a form that anyone else could understand. :lmao:


----------



## mc3251 (Sep 28, 2007)

wow. 
...and where does this leave an average person who wants to buy a cell phone? Unbelievably complex and opaque!


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## eric72 (Jul 29, 2008)

AgentXXL said:


> Unfortunately not... I did clarify that in a later paragraph - wideband CDMA (WCDMA) is used by both CDMA and GSM/UMTS networks but a CDMA phone cannot use GSM/UMTS infrastructure with WCDMA technology and vice versa.
> 
> Whew... that's a mouthful!


That I understand. But the iPhone is not CDMA, it's 3G/3GS (for GSM networks), and with the ones coming out for Telus, they will also be HSPA compatible. Hence, the iPhone will have a fall back from HSPA+ to regular GSM on the new network. But your saying otherwise, which is what I'm trying to figure out.

Although, it was clarified to me that Telus will be keeping the CDMA towers operational for a while longer, as they expect quite a number of customers to not switch over just yet. So CDMA/EVDO phones will still be supported that way.

Also, WCDMA is different from HSPDA or HSPA. The new "Belus" network improves upon the older WCDMA network.


```
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-hsdpa.htm
```
Link is a little dated, but info is still relevant.



AgentXXL said:


> It is very confusing for the consumer sin*ce both CDMA and GSM networks can/will use WCDMA (HSPA and HSPA+) to move forward. Unfortunately phones that are built around GSM technology can't fallback on a CDMA2000 network and vice versa*.
> 
> *What this means for Bell and Telus is that they can continue to support customers on their CDMA20001x/EVDO1x networks and allow customers to move towards LTE with newer phones that use HSPA and HSPA+*. Rogers is also updating its network to HSPA+ as part of its initial LTE offering. They state they will have the network upgraded in major cities and throughout the lower mainland and the corridor to Whistler before the winter olympics in February 2010.


Can't find where you explained how the iPhone 3G/3GS will not have a fall back from HSPA to GSM. Can you please clarify.

Thanks.


----------



## AgentXXL (May 2, 2008)

eric72 said:


> That I understand. But the iPhone is not CDMA, it's 3G/3GS (for GSM networks), and with the ones coming out for Telus, they will also be HSPA compatible. Hence, the iPhone will have a fall back from HSPA+ to regular GSM on the new network. But your saying otherwise, which is what I'm trying to figure out.


That's where the problem resides - the new Belus network does not implement older GSM transmission methods like EDGE or GPRS. Hence the Belus iPhone will have nothing to fallback on, unless the customer is willing to ROAM onto the Rogers/Fido network.



eric72 said:


> Also, WCDMA is different from HSPDA or HSPA. The new "Belus" network improves upon the older WCDMA network.
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


HSDPA/HSPA/HSPA+ are an EVOLUTION of the WCDMA method. That's even in the link you mention:



from the article said:


> It is an evolution and improvement on W-CDMA, or Wideband Code Division Multiple Access, a 3G protocol.





eric72 said:


> Can't find where you explained how the iPhone 3G/3GS will not have a fall back from HSPA to GSM. Can you please clarify.
> 
> Thanks.


From this paragraph:

_It is very confusing for the consumer since both CDMA and GSM networks can/will use WCDMA (HSPA and HSPA+) to move forward. Unfortunately phones that are built around GSM technology can't fallback on a CDMA2000 network *and vice versa.*_

The important part is that the new Belus network won't implement the older GSM/GPRS/EDGE network needed for fallback. They are only implementing the new 3.5G portion which includes HSPA/HSPA+.

I think another reason there is confusion is the use of 'CDMA' to describe the network, when it's really the transmission method. A network that uses WCDMA (and the evolution of it in HSPA/HSPA+) doesn't imply support for CDMA phones, nor does it mean that prior transmission methods are still available.

Hope that's clearer.


----------



## eric72 (Jul 29, 2008)

AgentXXL said:


> That's where the problem resides - the new Belus network does not implement older GSM transmission methods like EDGE or GPRS. Hence the Belus iPhone will have nothing to fallback on, unless the customer is willing to ROAM onto the Rogers/Fido network.
> 
> HSDPA/HSPA/HSPA+ are an EVOLUTION of the WCDMA method. That's even in the link you mention:
> 
> ...


Ah ok, I think were are starting to come to the same page...I think lol.

Yes, HSPA is an evolution of WCDMA, but it's not WCDMA. It's a completely different network based and improved upon the older technology. Which I do understand what your saying about why GSM is not compatible with CDMA2000 and vice-versa.. Hence why Telus will be keeping the CDMA towers online for a while longer. But still leaves the question about the iPhone fallback (which has nothing to do with WCDMA or CDMA).

I see why you are saying now that the iPhone won't have a fall back. Because _"Belus network *won't implement *the older GSM/GPRS/EDGE network needed for fallback."_ It would make sense and relevant to THE question at hand. But it is still unclear, as I haven't read anything regarding this, and why Telus people are telling me they will have GSM to fall back to. I've sent out a couple of notes, waiting to hear back to get confirmation on this. Or at least an explanation, of how or why I was given the info that Telus will have GSM to fall back on if HSPA coverage is not available. I will post back.


----------



## AgentXXL (May 2, 2008)

eric72 said:


> I see why you are saying now that the iPhone won't have a fall back. Because _"Belus network *won't implement *the older GSM/GPRS/EDGE network needed for fallback."_ It would make sense and relevant to THE question at hand. But it is still unclear, as I haven't read anything regarding this, and why Telus people are telling me they will have GSM to fall back to.


The cost to implement the older GSM technology is prohibitive, especially since carriers really want to phase it out of operation. The older technology is also costly to maintain. That's the reason why I and others find it doubtful that Belus would spend $$ to implement. The $$ would be more wisely invested in the new LTE network so that customers won't have to worry about fallback. 

It is possible for them to do, but not likely.


----------



## Sniper4u (Jun 25, 2008)

Bell and Telus don't have to worry about a fall back network. Their 3G network is layed overtop of their entire existing network. In other words in you lose the 3G signal there would be no network to connect to because they wouldn't have a tower to send you a signal. Their next step is LTE since they have completed the HSDPA network already. Probably in the next 2 years before they do it though.


----------



## AgentXXL (May 2, 2008)

eric72 said:


> Yes, HSPA is an evolution of WCDMA, but it's not WCDMA. It's a completely different network based and improved upon the older technology. Which I do understand what your saying about why GSM is not compatible with CDMA2000 and vice-versa.. Hence why Telus will be keeping the CDMA towers online for a while longer. But still leaves the question about the iPhone fallback (which has nothing to do with WCDMA or CDMA).


My understanding of HSDPA is that it is largely based on WCDMA but differs on 2 main principles. Instead of variable spreading factor and fast power control, it uses AMC (adaptive modulation and coding) and HARC (hybrid automatic repeat requests) to achieve a higher bandwidth. Rather than getting too deep, I'll refer to the simplest article I've found that describes it (unfortunately on Wikipedia, which isn't my preferred source):

Universal Mobile Telecommunications System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My understanding might be wrong, but I'll stick with it for now. I learned most of it from a t-comm installer who has worked in microwave and cellular transmission since the ClearNet days, before Telus bought them out.


----------



## mc3251 (Sep 28, 2007)

Sniper4u said:


> Bell and Telus don't have to worry about a fall back network. Their 3G network is layed overtop of their entire existing network. In other words in you lose the 3G signal there would be no network to connect to because they wouldn't have a tower to send you a signal. Their next step is LTE since they have completed the HSDPA network already. Probably in the next 2 years before they do it though.


What matters to me is, will I be able to rely on availability on a Telus iPhone?


----------



## GregoriusM (Jun 7, 2008)

Well, I just read a post on here in another thread that said Telus WILL be able to fall back to GSM, just not EDGE which he says is an AT&T thing. 

So, who's right?

I still can't see anyone buying a 3G phone that can't fall back to something in certain areas of big cities and for 60 miles outside the city. 

So which is it? GSM fallback capable or people getting all these new 3G phones with no fallback and having a mass rebellion when they can't get the coverage they expect?

I'm getting conflicting answers which is worse than no answer at all.


----------



## AgentXXL (May 2, 2008)

GregoriusM said:


> Well, I just read a post on here in another thread that said Telus WILL be able to fall back to GSM, just not EDGE which he says is an AT&T thing.
> 
> So, who's right?


EDGE is definitely not just an 'AT&T' thing. All of our current Rogers/Fido iPhones can and do fallback to EDGE. The earlier models of the iPhone didn't have 3G at all, and they are still working on Rogers/Fido (after they have been carrier unlocked via software/jailbreak). I have no idea why people would think this is an AT&T 'exclusive'. EDGE is a standard part of the existing 2G GSM framework.

As for it being available on Belus is really anyone's guess. Everything I've read and heard says they're installing 3.5G HSPA+ equipment with no mention of additional transponders for the GSM/GPRS/EDGE capability.

Best answer: let's wait until Belus actually throws the switch. You can be sure that end users will quickly find out. Once the 3.5G coverage is known, then maybe you'll have to 'worry' about fallback.

Oh, and I'm right - at least that's what my t-shirt says!


----------



## GregoriusM (Jun 7, 2008)

Ooooops... Didn't read the t-shirt... lol


----------



## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Where have you read that Bell and Telus are adding anything *but* 3G capability? Everything I have read says it's 3G only.




AgentXXL said:


> EDGE is definitely not just an 'AT&T' thing. All of our current Rogers/Fido iPhones can and do fallback to EDGE. The earlier models of the iPhone didn't have 3G at all, and they are still working on Rogers/Fido (after they have been carrier unlocked via software/jailbreak). I have no idea why people would think this is an AT&T 'exclusive'. EDGE is a standard part of the existing 2G GSM framework.
> 
> As for it being available on Belus is really anyone's guess. Everything I've read and heard says they're installing 3.5G HSPA+ equipment with no mention of additional transponders for the GSM/GPRS/EDGE capability.
> 
> ...


----------



## GregoriusM (Jun 7, 2008)

HowEver said:


> Where have you read that Bell and Telus are adding anything *but* 3G capability? Everything I have read says it's 3G only.


That's my point, However. Why would anyone want a phone that is 3G ONLY? There are lots of places in small, medium and large cities where there is no or only sporadic 3G coverage. And NONE 10 miles out of the city. Nothing to fall back to. 

Who would want a phone with no "lower" technolgy to go to in those areas? I still want to know?


----------



## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Of course, the iPhone isn't "3G only." Telus and Bell will be selling that same 3G/3GS iPhone many of us already have, with the scores of tiny radios inside that provide 3G/HSPA/Edge/GPRS/wifi/wifi/wifi/infra/bluetooth/etc.

But Bell and Telus' new network *is* 3G only.

They will be claiming that their huge network is all 3G. If it is, great, no need for the fallback. I wouldn't hold my breath for that though.





GregoriusM said:


> That's my point, However. Why would anyone want a phone that is 3G ONLY? There are lots of places in small, medium and large cities where there is no or only sporadic 3G coverage. And NONE 10 miles out of the city. Nothing to fall back to.
> 
> Who would want a phone with no "lower" technolgy to go to in those areas? I still want to know?


----------



## eric72 (Jul 29, 2008)

So I got confirmation. There is no fallback to GSM. But was also told that coverage will not be an issue. Unless your located and a very rural area. Places that still use dial up because they have no access to DSL or Cable. However, wi-fi will still be available. Only time will tell though. We'll see how things go come November.

As mentioned before, the HSPA network being implemented is actually 3.5G. Meaning it's an upgrade to the older 3G. Which is why the iPhones Telus is releasing is the 3GS.


----------



## AgentXXL (May 2, 2008)

HowEver said:


> Where have you read that Bell and Telus are adding anything *but* 3G capability? Everything I have read says it's 3G only.


I haven't read anything indicating otherwise.... I was only stating that it was possible for Belus to implement the older network technology. It would have been poorly spent $$, there's no doubt about that. I believed as you did, that they were only implementing a 3.5G network with HSPA+. This will become their fallback for LTE phones in the future.

And as Eric72 confirmed with his sources, we were right! 

EDIT: if you were asking why I indicated a 3.5G network and not 3G, it's because HSPA+ *is* 3.5G. Although the press releases from back in 2008 stated 3G, later info indicated HSPA+ which is 3.5G. That is why they are only selling the 3GS models, as they are HSPA+ capable. The older 3G models max out at HSPA. There is some backwards compatibility with HSPA in a HSPA+ network, but Belus will want to stress that they have the FASTEST iPhone capable network with the best coverage.


----------



## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Of course, no one reading this except a handful are going to care much, until you tell them that when their relatives visit with last year's GSM phones, Bell and Telus are going to be completely useless for them. So, maybe another handful.

And those that try to use their Bell and Telus iPhone 3GS outside of a major city.


----------



## eric72 (Jul 29, 2008)

HowEver said:


> Of course, no one reading this except a handful are going to care much, until you tell them that when their relatives visit with last year's GSM phones, Bell and Telus are going to be completely useless for them. So, maybe another handful.
> 
> And those that try to use their Bell and Telus iPhone 3GS outside of a major city.


If they are visiting from the states, they'll probably just end roaming using Rogers network. If they are within Canada, if they have a 3G iPhone, it's probably from Rogers or Fido, or bought online somewhere, which would be a mistake on their part trying to get it hooked up with Belus. Telus and Bell will only be selling the iPhone 3GS.

I have a feeling that they'll still be able to use wi-fi in places without 3G coverage. It's slower, but will work. Mind you this is just a concern for the data side. Texting and making calls shouldn't be affected.


----------



## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

But for non-iPhones... out of luck.



eric72 said:


> If they are visiting from the states, they'll probably just end roaming using Rogers network. If they are within Canada, if they have a 3G iPhone, it's probably from Rogers or Fido, or bought online somewhere, which would be a mistake on their part trying to get it hooked up with Belus. Telus and Bell will only be selling the iPhone 3GS.
> 
> I have a feeling that they'll still be able to use wi-fi in places without 3G coverage. It's slower, but will work. Mind you this is just a concern for the data side. Texting and making calls shouldn't be affected.


----------



## AgentXXL (May 2, 2008)

HowEver said:


> Of course, no one reading this except a handful are going to care much, until you tell them that when their relatives visit with last year's GSM phones, Bell and Telus are going to be completely useless for them. So, maybe another handful.
> 
> And those that try to use their Bell and Telus iPhone 3GS outside of a major city.


Belus roaming would be useless, but the older GSM phones are not completely useless... the relatives could still buy Pay as you Go SIMs on Rogers if they have a phone that isn't carrier locked.  

As for Belus 3GS usage outside of the normal corridors and major cities, I suspect they won't field a large number of complaints. Bell has pretty decent rural coverage in the East and Telus has the same in the West. With them sharing usage of the new transponders, they might have better coverage than Rogers.

Alas that brings up the roaming on Rogers issue. It would sure be a slap in the face if Belus struck a roaming deal with Rogers. That would sure narrow any hopes of competition between Rogers, Bell and Telus!

Do I think that would happen? Not likely, but I've been fooled before.


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## GregoriusM (Jun 7, 2008)

eric72 said:


> I have a feeling that they'll still be able to use wi-fi in places without 3G coverage. It's slower, but will work. Mind you this is just a concern for the data side. Texting and making calls shouldn't be affected.


???

I can take an iPhone 3GS 75 miles NE of Winnipeg on Rogers and have the ability to make and receive calls. So would I be losing this capabity by being on Telus because Winnipeg will only have 3.5 G in the city? Or would I only be losing the data
capability outside of Winnipeg?


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## eric72 (Jul 29, 2008)

HowEver said:


> The post you quoted was entirely about non-3G GSM phones, which won't work on Telus and Bell's new network.


Ah. That's correct, they won't. But for non-3G/GSM/HSPA phones, the CDMA towers they already have up will still be online. As I mentioned in a previous post, they expect quite a number of customers to stay put where they are for a while. So no point in shutting down the CDMA towers just yet. So these people will still have the same coverage as they do now.

I'm sure at some point, should the HSPA network prove successful, and the majority of customers decide to upgrade their phones, they'll eliminate CDMA all together. Leaving the small group of CDMA phone users no option but to upgrade. But that won't be for a while.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Interestingly enough, Telus doesn't allow non-Telus/foreign handsets to be used at all on their CMDA network. I think Bell might be the same.



eric72 said:


> Ah. That's correct, they won't. But for non-3G/GSM/HSPA phones, the CDMA towers they already have up will still be online. As I mentioned in a previous post, they expect quite a number of customers to stay put where they are for a while. So no point in shutting down the CDMA towers just yet. So these people will still have the same coverage as they do now.
> 
> I'm sure at some point, should the HSPA network prove successful, and the majority of customers decide to upgrade their phones, they'll eliminate CDMA all together. Leaving the small group of CDMA phone users no option but to upgrade. But that won't be for a while.


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## eric72 (Jul 29, 2008)

GregoriusM said:


> ???
> 
> I can take an iPhone 3GS 75 miles NE of Winnipeg on Rogers and have the ability to make and receive calls. So would I be losing this capabity by being on Telus because Winnipeg will only have 3.5 G in the city? Or would I only be losing the data
> capability outside of Winnipeg?


You would only be losing the data capability. However, unless the iPhone you have from Rogers is HSPA+ capable/compatible, you won't be able to transfer that to Telus or Bell.


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## GregoriusM (Jun 7, 2008)

eric72 said:


> You would only be losing the data capability. However, unless the iPhone you have from Rogers is HSPA+ capable/compatible, you won't be able to transfer that to Telus or Bell.


Thank you. It is making sense now. An iPhone 3GS will then be able to make calls outside of the 3.5G coverage, just not be able to use the 3.5G data. 

I hope I now have that right.


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## eric72 (Jul 29, 2008)

HowEver said:


> Interestingly enough, Telus doesn't allow non-Telus/foreign handsets to be used at all on their CMDA network. I think Bell might be the same.


That would be correct as well. One of the cons with Telus and Bell for a long time. I was actually ready to switch to Rogers last year because I wanted the iPhone. But ever since I heard Telus was getting the iPhone, I held off. It also helped that client retention made it worth my while to stay on. ;-)

The plus with Rogers is because they are on a GSM network, you can use any open GSM phone and hook it up with them. But like anything else, things get old and dated, and the new and fresh role in. Gotta go with the times eventually.

I'm just glad I no longer have to switch carriers to get the service I want.


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## eric72 (Jul 29, 2008)

GregoriusM said:


> Thank you. It is making sense now. An iPhone 3GS will then be able to make calls outside of the 3.5G coverage, just not be able to use the 3.5G data.
> 
> I hope I now have that right.


An iPhone 3GS with HSPA+ compatibility. Other than the ones Telus or Bell are rolling out, I'm not sure where else you can pick one up like that. I'm pretty sure the Rogers iPhone 3GS are *not* HSPA+ compatible.


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## AgentXXL (May 2, 2008)

eric72 said:


> An iPhone 3GS with HSPA+ compatibility. Other than the ones Telus or Bell are rolling out, I'm not sure where else you can pick one up like that. I'm pretty sure the Rogers iPhone 3GS are *not* HSPA+ compatible.


Wrong. All iPhone 3GS models are HSPA+ capable/compatible. Apple doesn't make specific hardware for each carrier, but they can and do lock them to specific carriers. The only way we can take a Rogers iPhone to Belus is getting one that can be software unlocked or if Telus offers to 'hardware unlock' our phones to sweeten the switching deal. 

EDIT: To clarify, HSPA+ is capable of speeds up to 21Mbps. The iPhone 3G can run HSPA up to 3.6Mbps and the iPhone 3GS can run HSPA up to 7.2Mbps. The first iPhone that is a true HSPA+ device will probably be released next summer (2010). Rogers has upgraded their network to HSPA+ in at least 5 Canadian cities with more to follow: Toronto (Aug'09), Vancouver, Calgary, Ottawa and Montreal (Sept'09).


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## eric72 (Jul 29, 2008)

AgentXXL said:


> Wrong. All iPhone 3GS models are HSPA+ capable/compatible. Apple doesn't make specific hardware for each carrier, but they can and do lock them to specific carriers. The only way we can take a Rogers iPhone to Belus is getting one that can be software unlocked or if Telus offers to 'hardware unlock' our phones to sweeten the switching deal.


Interesting, I didn't know that. I checked the specs for Rogers iPhone, and it never mentioned anything about being HSPA+ compatible. But if it is locked (which I'm sure it is), I'm not completely wrong. As you still won't be able to use a Rogers iPhone on the Belus network.

I'm curious though, *if* Telus or Bell will have something along the lines of what you mentioned. About hacking non-Telus/Bell iPhones to work with the HSPA+ network. There would definitely be pros and cons *should it be true*.

Pro: You can buy used iPhones on line and just get them hacked by the other carriers. It will definitely cost you less.

Con: Telus or Bell would lose money this way. Which I'm sure is not in their plans. lol

Pro: But buy hacking non-Telus/Bell phones, Telus or Bell would chance to gain more converts.

Con: Should they do this, I can see some legal issues to arise.

lol. It's fun to speculate, but like you said, we won't know till next month how this all works out.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Wrong.

GSM wireless carriers dance their happiest dances when you buy your phone elsewhere and activate them on the same stupid three-year contract that they foist upon those who buy heavily discounted handsets and agree to three year contracts.

That said, Telus and Bell not allowing foreign handsets means they could sell you crippled, feature-locked and under-featured tinny handsets at a large profit.

At the moment, if you buy a 3GS, or upgrade to OS 3.1.2, you have a non-unlockable iPhone. That could change of course, as it has many times before.



eric72 said:


> Interesting, I didn't know that. I checked the specs for Rogers iPhone, and it never mentioned anything about being HSPA+ compatible. But if it is locked (which I'm sure it is), I'm not completely wrong. As you still won't be able to use a Rogers iPhone on the Belus network.
> 
> I'm curious though, *if* Telus or Bell will have something along the lines of what you mentioned. About hacking non-Telus/Bell iPhones to work with the HSPA+ network. There would definitely be pros and cons *should it be true*.
> 
> ...


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## AgentXXL (May 2, 2008)

eric72 said:


> About hacking non-Telus/Bell iPhones to work with the HSPA+ network. There would definitely be pros and cons *should it be true*.


It definitely is possible - while not getting into too many specifics, a software unlock does exist for iPhones with up to version 4.28.08 baseband - which is 3.0.1 or earlier firmware. You can also create custom firmware to upgrade to 3.1.2 while still retaining the older unlockable baseband. If you buy a new 3GS that has 3.1 or newer firmware, the software unlock will no longer work and the baseband is not downgradeable.



eric72 said:


> Pro: You can buy used iPhones on line and just get them hacked by the other carriers. It will definitely cost you less.
> 
> Con: Telus or Bell would lose money this way. Which I'm sure is not in their plans. lol
> 
> ...


Actually, Belus wouldn't necessarily lose money if a customer signed with them. The customer will have presumably bought the iPhone outright or has paid for the subsidy by paying their ECF (early cancellation fees).

For example, I could decide to cancel my 3yr contract with Rogers which subsidized the cost of my iPhone 3GS. I would pay up to $400 for the voice ECF and $100 for the data ECF. This gets me out of my contract and I now own my 3GS. I then approach Belus and they offer to hardware unlock my 3GS for a fee (typical charge has been $100 or less in other countries that have done this). 

The 'hardware unlock' is really a factory unlock in that Belus would contact Apple to have the customers phone unlocked. The next time the iPhone is connected to iTunes, it will get a factory unlock code and voila, it's usable on Belus! And Belus gets the customer without having to subsidize the iPhone cost as part of the contract. That means all plan costs are no longer paying a portion for the actual iPhone hardware.

This is a win/win scenario for iPhone users who travel overseas a lot. With a factory unlocked iPhone they can then use inexpensive Pay As You Go SIMs in the countries they visit, instead of paying the high roaming charges imposed by Canadian carriers. And they also get a new competitive rate plan with Belus (hopefully)!


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Of course, the Telus/wireless carrier's "hardware unlock" is fiction.




AgentXXL said:


> It definitely is possible - while not getting into too many specifics, a software unlock does exist for iPhones with up to version 4.28.08 baseband - which is 3.0.1 or earlier firmware. You can also create custom firmware to upgrade to 3.1.2 while still retaining the older unlockable baseband. If you buy a new 3GS that has 3.1 or newer firmware, the software unlock will no longer work and the baseband is not downgradeable.
> 
> Actually, Belus wouldn't necessarily lose money if a customer signed with them. The customer will have presumably bought the iPhone outright or has paid for the subsidy by paying their ECF (early cancellation fees).
> 
> ...


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## AgentXXL (May 2, 2008)

HowEver said:


> Of course, the Telus/wireless carrier's "hardware unlock" is fiction.


Umm, it is? A factory unlock can be issued by Apple at the carriers request. This has been done in Europe already. You can also buy factory unlocked iPhones from overseas carriers, although they are quite pricy!

It's only 'fiction' if Belus and/or Rogers won't do it. This is a double-edged sword - unlocking the phone might also mean some Belus users might eventually want to switch to Rogers, assuming the rate plans really start competing. The customer will usually go where they can get the best deal.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

It's fiction in Canada and will remain that way for some time to come. Then again, so was a Telus or Bell iPhone and god knows why Rogers/fido didn't have an exclusive contract with Apple....

And if you prefer a $2000 French or Dutch iPhone, you're too busy making money to be replying here. Or you have lots already, and don't care.



AgentXXL said:


> Umm, it is? A factory unlock can be issued by Apple at the carriers request. This has been done in Europe already. You can also buy factory unlocked iPhones from overseas carriers, although they are quite pricy!
> 
> It's only 'fiction' if Belus and/or Rogers won't do it. This is a double-edged sword - unlocking the phone might also mean some Belus users might eventually want to switch to Rogers, assuming the rate plans really start competing. The customer will usually go where they can get the best deal.


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## eric72 (Jul 29, 2008)

HowEver said:


> Wrong.
> 
> GSM wireless carriers dance their happiest dances when you buy your phone elsewhere and activate them on the same stupid three-year contract that they foist upon those who buy heavily discounted handsets and agree to three year contracts.
> 
> ...


But that's only IF Telus or Bell allows you to bring in foreign phones and activate it on their network. Which is highly unlikely. They never have, and I don't think ever will. Remember, this isn't a GSM network like Rogers. Where you can just buy any old open GSM phone and hook it up. At least for Telus, you have to buy the phone from them. The most likely reason for this, is so that THEY can profit from the sale of *their* phones and *their* plans.

But in regards to the HSPA phones, I don't think they will make them "crippled, feature-locked and under-featured tinny handsets". They are looking to gain more customers, not keep them away. It will be a battle of who provides the best service at the best rates.


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## GregoriusM (Jun 7, 2008)

Well, should they decide to cripple the other phones, we know that Apple won't let them cripple the iPhone. At least there's a MUCH better chance that it won't be crippled any more than Apple itself cripples it in some areas, as in apps that duplicate the functionality, etc. etc.


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## Sniper4u (Jun 25, 2008)

Just to clarify on the HSDPA networks. Bell and Telus are at 7.2mbps right now and still have to upgrade to the HSDPA+ 21mbps in the near future. Rogers network is already upgraded to HSDPA+ but they are not letting handsets access that part of the network. They only let mobile pc sticks and such use it even though the hardware in these devices can't use the full speed of the network yet either. Although the news reports that Rogers has the largest coverage from what I am hearing is that the combined network of Bell and Telus far surpasses that now. There are also talks of a Rogers Bell Telus sharing agreement for the remote areas of their HSDPA networks.


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## adam.sn (Feb 7, 2007)

HowEver said:


> Interestingly enough, Telus doesn't allow non-Telus/foreign handsets to be used at all on their CMDA network. I think Bell might be the same.


You can... in theory as long as the phone is a CDMA phone, however it is INCREDIBLY difficult and not worth the effort whatsoever. you have to call in and get them to add the ESN (electronic serial number) to the network, reprogram the phone (possibly requiring a software flash with custom software at the worst of times) and then hoping that it works. 

All after convincing them it's a good idea to use your own phone and not just buy one of theirs... Its pretty much impossible.

____

As an aside i think people are having a hard time grasping the concept of "falling back" onto gsm (like with rogers or at&t) because their 3G coverage has been less than stellar.

Telus and Bell on the other hand really are laying the 3G coverage over their ENTIRE network. So it's either you have coverage or you don't... If you can get 1XEV coverage now you'll get 3G coverage in a month. Which constitutes about 95% of the population. 

So there won't be a need to "fall back" 

And even if you did need too, i wouldn't see why the rogers network wouldn't show up on an iPhone 3GS on Telus. It's the same phone, still capable of picking up a GSM signal. 

Cheers  I'm gonna go back to waiting in line for my 32GB Telus iPhone.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Oh, Telus is already showing up on my Rogers iPhone. So, sure, Rogers will show up as a network on a Telus iPhone. It won't be of any use without a roaming agreement and an unlocked phone or another SIM though.



adam.sn said:


> You can... in theory as long as the phone is a CDMA phone, however it is INCREDIBLY difficult and not worth the effort whatsoever. you have to call in and get them to add the ESN (electronic serial number) to the network, reprogram the phone (possibly requiring a software flash with custom software at the worst of times) and then hoping that it works.
> 
> All after convincing them it's a good idea to use your own phone and not just buy one of theirs... Its pretty much impossible.
> 
> ...


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## eric72 (Jul 29, 2008)

*November 5*

Telus Will Launch iPhone in Canada | High Tech Lounge

Crossing fingers. lol


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## mc3251 (Sep 28, 2007)

eric72 said:


> Telus Will Launch iPhone in Canada | High Tech Lounge
> 
> Crossing fingers. lol


 It's all going to be about the plans


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