# Our 'Fat' Society



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

I was just reading an article a little while back, regarding our so-called 'Fat Society' and how more than 50 percent of North Americans are overweight and/or obese. 

I just think that.. that's kinda sad, really. You know we get everything we want, and that we're lazy, when...  

Sorry, I realize this might be a sensitive subject, so please no making offensive comments to any other members!


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## Pamela (Feb 20, 2003)

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at...

Are you defending being overweight or are you concerned about it? edit: sorry I re-read your post and I get it. But come on lars...you can do better than that with stating an opinion! I had to search for it!

Anyway, being highly overweight or obsese is just a physical manifestation of a bigger underlying problem. Just as is drug use, smoking, anorexia, sex addiction or any other highly addictive obsessive compulsive disorder.

Our world refuses to deal with the real issues, so in the meantime there are only quick fixes and bandaids to try and cover up the real problem. And there will *always* be people willing to capitalize on these problems like the cigarette manufacturer's, liquor manufacturer's, fast food chains, etc etc etc....

Until people are educated about why they have these disorders in a widely public way (with medial like tv for instance), then people are just going to keep saying, "I smoke because I like it", or "I'm fat because I like food", or I cheat on everyone because I like sex".

The mind and body are complex things, and the educated ones need to start educating the non-educated ones (and I don't mean with a $150 fee attached to it). Or else the cycle will continue....

[ November 15, 2004, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: Pamela ]


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

Sorry.









Yeah, I'm more concerned about it - definitely not defending it. I don't think many people have an excuse to be overweight in any fashion. Yes, there are the few with those nasty genes who will be overweight regardless of what they do or try, but I think that majority of people who have this issue have it because they just don't have, or want to, make the time to resolve it or produce a solution for it. 

Basically, I'm just asking for opinions from everyone on what you guys think, or what your opinion is in regards to this increasing health problem. 

Lastly, not only is it a personal problem, but it also hampers on our healthcare system with problems that can be prevented in the first place if people watched themselves a tad more.


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## Pamela (Feb 20, 2003)

oh, and a side note, some skinny people can be just as unhealthy as some overweight people. Their body type just doesn't show it. I've had friends, both men and women who drink litres of pop everyday, smoke packs of cigarettes, drink pots of coffee, and fast food as their meals and were skinny as hell. So skinny people with bad "habits" shouldn't feel like they are off the hook by any stretch.

I just think overweight people get the worst of it because their problem manifests itself in a physical way which we all can see...


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## Pamela (Feb 20, 2003)

Lars, I can't help but notice that you posts sound...how do I say this nicely....a little unexperienced? Give yourself 10 more years to experience life a little more....the ups AND downs....as well as the lives of those close to you that may suffer with any underlying problem and you'll start to see that things like being overweight are not as black and white as you make them out to be....and the problem not as easily fixed as them just losing weight. Think about smokers....alcholics...there are complex reason's why people can't just "quit".


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

Pamela, I totally understand you-- I'm only 19, so no, I haven't reached into age 40 where this might all become a little more clearer and all, which is exactly why I'm asking for opinions on the matter. I only have my one and single view on it and understand there are numerous views and angles on the subject.

I do, however, have friends that are in this situation - close friends, at that - so I've seen some of the side effects and the like on the issue in real-time. 

I also realize some 'skinny' people may also not be that great off - I'm not entirely defending the skinnies of us, either.  

I think one of the contributing problems is due to the fact that in our society, we're led to believe countless different things all of which contradict one another, and then no one knows what a real 'healthy weight' or body style really is. Thoughts? One magazine shows thin models posing, and then all girls are led to believe that's the perfect body - then you ask around other people, and they'll tell you then entirely opposite thing. With things like this, it's no wonder (at least to me) as to why there's always debate as to what's the 'ideal' or 'perfect' body or weight.


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## Pamela (Feb 20, 2003)

I think that body type and weight is over emphasized to a certain point...especially for women. I know for me, it's about well being. If I'm eating right, exercising enough, reducing my stress and keeping my mental well being in check (ie. making sure I don't have any of those underlying issues such as depression etc...) then I have to be happy with how I look and feel. There is nothing more I can do.

But there are others who are more vulnerable than I am and they buy into whatever is fashionable (ie. what's "in" in the media) so they feel like they fit in. Some of these standards are almost impossible to meet, so when they fall short they give up and sometimes, just eat.


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## New Coke (Jul 13, 2004)

I constantly struggle with my weight. I run about 10 kms or so a week, go to the gym on a regular basis and watch what I eat, limiting my fast food consumption down to a minimum ( I do love it). 

Currently, I am about 10 pounds over my preferred weight, and I know I could work harder to get to my ideal (170 lbs), by being a bit more committed. 

If I didn't exercise, I would be at about 200 pounds. I'm fairly young, so it's annoying that some of my friends have a lot more will power for the junk food than I do. 

It's really hard to stop eating all that good food, but it is possible.


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## MBD (Sep 1, 2003)

I find our insane lifestyles don't make it easy. While I'd like to lose a couple pounds, I'm probably not considered overweight but it's difficult even just to exercise consistently for health - I drive to work for an hour each way and sit on my butt in front of a computer all day. I force myself to make healthy food choices but if my husband wasn't closer to work, I would see myself eating a lot of unhealthy fast food just because it's hard to have the time to get things done....and I don't even have kids!

Now, are there supports at work to help me be more healthy - hell no! They really don't care what shape you are in as long as you don't take time off work and you get things done. Not to mention, I've read recently how when you are stressed and in a constant state of fight or flight (as I believe I am because I have an absolutely horrendous work environment) you tend to put on weight. I'm just lucky I have the type of genes that don't manifest all this in making my body morbidly obese.

An additional pressure, and I'm sure I'm not alone, is that in general, I feel like I have to look like someone who is at least 10 years younger than me and very tiny. I honestly feel depressed looking at those thin women on TV or in magazines.

In Europe they have it right - there are actually overtime police who make sure workers are not overworked not only for their health but also because it means others are not working (this curbs the ridiculous downsizing that has happened here where employees are laid off and workers remaining have to fill in the work and do both jobs). Moreover, Europe has amazing vacation time - 6 weeks off - and they have fresh food and decent lunch hour.

I think if we are going to make changes - we need to change our lifestyles. Yes, individuals need to make a commitment to be healthier too but they can't do it very easily without some supports in place.


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

When half of the population is classified as overweight or obese, surely the problem is more than an individual one. The average person does not get enough exercise during the week. Part of this is the way jobs are conducted now, sitting at a computer monitor for 8 hours a day then getting in a car and driving for 1.5 hours back to the suburbs. The other part of the equation is the mass warping of the food that we are provided at the average supermarket. It is processed and instant for most people. It is actually difficult for the average person to go into a grocer and find food that is good for you. Just watch the person behind you in line the next time you are checking out at the grocery store. It is frightening what some people buy. 

You can't shift all the blame away from the individual to be sure, personal responsibility still is a factor. It is difficult to overcome the lifestyle and food factor though. 

I feel sorry for kids I see that are probably classed as overweight. Some of them even with relatively healthy looking parents.


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

MBD, interesting comment about your work not trying to make healthy choices easier for you. Many a study has shown that people will miss less work when they are healthy. Exercise and readily available healthy diet choices in the workplace can increase productivity and attendance. The mental stress factor is another story.


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## MBD (Sep 1, 2003)

Carex - and don't think my work doesn't pay lip service to this - it's even one of our corporate values but we kind of snicker at this as in practice it just doesn't happen.

There should be a values police!









It's funny as I think most of use agree as to the root of the problem so it must be understood out there yet there seems to be no push to change things from the powers above. I wonder what it will take for changes to occur - I'm thinking legislation will but compassion is what will really motivate people. If only that was necessary when it came to promotions!


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## Pamela (Feb 20, 2003)

it's allll about money MBD. If they don't gain to make money, it won't happen.


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

The value is only the beginning of putting it into action. Mission statement, policy, program. I realize this kind of thing is difficult for small to medium businesses to achieve. 

There are inklings of hope (is that a word, inklings). I remember seeing news stories, primarily from the States, wherein Pizza Hut and other fast food chains were sponsoring school cafeterias. I couldn't beleive it. Talk about getting in on the ground floor. Now I have heard of a few schools that have gone the other way and the kids are receptive. No junk food in the vending machines and good, whole foods in the cafeteria. It is being met with little resistance and kids are feeling better about their day and themselves without the fast sugars. Cross your fingers and hope that this trend spreads far and wide.


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## MBD (Sep 1, 2003)

> It's allll about money MBD. If they don't gain to make money, it won't happen.


Yep that and personal gain and prestige.


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## Codger (Aug 1, 2004)

No simple or universal answers.
The MacDonald's that I drove by this morning at 7:30 had at least 30 cars at the drive through. Yes there are some people out there that are just too lazy to prepare their own food. There are many others who just don't have the time and then make less than optimum choices about what they eat. I have a couple of acquaintances who fall in to the "genetic pre-disposition" category who have the devil of a time maintaining a reasonable weight. 
One poor soul, who fortunately has a great sense of humour, really does appear to be able to pack on pounds just by being in the vicinity of food. 
I've been travelling all over North America continuously for the past 30 years. During that time the percentage of people I meet that are grossly obese has increased. Southern US seems to have more than it's share of people packing around an extra 50 pounds. I've managed to keep within 15 pounds, up or down, from the weight I left high school with. 
It's tough when you spend 240 nights a year in hotels. There are some great restaurants out there.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Codger, watch the documentary "Supersize Me" and wonder how the hold of the fast food chains like MacDonalds will ever be broken?

Carex, some states/cities/school districts/schools are currently banning the franchising of their food services to fast food chains. Sadly, more and more are jumping upon this bandwagon with the promise of computers or much needed funds for this "service" (after their profit margin has been met, of course).


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

It can be hard for a poor district to resist. Free computers, software, textbooks with the lunch, paid for by Uncle Ronnie. 

Good food choices have become alot more difficult for lower income households and families. Where at one time in history the thought of going to a restuarant was beyond their means, now it is cheaper to go to the fast food chain to get a "meal" (America's meat and potatoes). Whole foods, organic foods and the like come with a premium that is unaffordable to many. 

Big business and big profits.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

The food industry spends between $200 and $2 billion on advertising and lobbying, making sure their products are kept in the public eye, and to ensure laws are not passed restricting their products in any way. Luckily, now with the Internet, it is easier to find information about the fat content in foods, trans-fatty acids, etc, and the problems they cause in humans. Still, many people who need this information do not have access to internet connections.

I see far less government regulations of this situation over the next four years, along with a dramatic increase in diseases like diabetes and heart disease. We shall see.


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## Codger (Aug 1, 2004)

Carex: thanks for the reality check. Yes it is more expensive to get good food and there are families that just can't afford it.
However, a 13 year old eating 4 filet of fish and a large fry for lunch could be spending the same or less for something a little healthier. I saw this within the past hour at my daughter's school when I dropped her lunch off.

DrG: I've heard about Supersize Me. Haven't seen it. Just from the comments that I've heard it gives me the creeps. I'm not much of a fan of horror movies.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Just the thought of eating one's way through the MacDonalds menu seems like a easy task, until you see the effects it has on his psycho-physiological state of being. I won't give away the ending, but it is well worth the watch.


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## Pamela (Feb 20, 2003)

it is my understanding that this myth about it costing more to eat healthy has been proven wrong. I'll have to dig for the source, but I remember it being on the cbc or something equivalent...

And the same is true from what I've found. It actually costs me more to eat out and eat unhealthy than to stay in and eat healthy. It also costs me more to eat unhealthy than healthy in general. Regardless of whether it's eating in or out.


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## bopeep (Jun 7, 2004)

Our bodies were designed to do hard work and eat good food. Fruit, vegetables, meat, and some grains. 
Our society has made everything easier for us. We don't have to work hard to live, we don't have to eat healthy food, we can get recommended percentages of our daily nutrients from McDonalds... I know cause THEY said so on TV. We are too busy running to our jobs and carting kids to various activities to enjoy a home prepared meal, from food that we have grown ourselves. 

I find it humorous that people try to shield their kids from knowing that that lovely skinless, boneless breast of chicken came from a chicken. Yup, the kind with feathers and says bock bock ! The looks I get from strangers when my niece asks me what part of the chicken we are eating and I answer her. GASP ! 

Oh, fresh air and clean water are part of the formula too. Just ask Macnutt. 

Cheers
Bo


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Pamela, the actual costs of healthy vs unhealthy eating needs to factor in the rise in health costs. Sadly, we are a reactive society in North America, that will react when a health care issue is created, rather than a proactive society that tries to help people prevent these health care issues. My main local charity to which I contribute here in St.John's is the School Lunch Association.


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## Pamela (Feb 20, 2003)

all too true dr. G.

The same goes for smoking effects and drug abuse effects...


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Bopeep, I pride myself on doing most of the cooking in our house, mainly because I have the most time in the house due to being a teleprofessor for most of the academic year. I spend time trying to wok different things, working around lots of fresh vegetables, and not using much meats with fat, such as grain fed, free range chicken breasts. It costs more, but it's worth the extra cost. However, I grew up quite poor in New York City and I know how hard it is to eat healthy foods on a very restricted family budget.


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## Pamela (Feb 20, 2003)

*I grew up quite poor in New York City and I know how hard it is to eat healthy foods on a very restricted family budget.
* 

My parents were in the same position growing up poor in Europe and what they ate was still ten times healthier than mcdonalds etc...

There is a difference between being fat and eating total empty calorie crap and eating organic/free range.

Eating healthy non organic/free range products doesn't make you fat.

....that's a whole other issue.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Pamela, I agree. Still, when you are limited in the money that can be spent on food, carbs (such as bread and pasta) are cheaper than fresh vegetables and fruits. As well, cheaper cuts of meat substitute for meat with far less fat. However, even now, my wife (who comes from Alberta) and I (who came from New York City) disagree as to the cut of beef we like. I like meat without fat, and she buy meat with fat that she can trim a bit, but it is still containing more fat than I like. I don't care if it's an expensive rib roast, I don't like fat. Of course, she does not like to boil a chicken either, so we are even. We agree over the wok, however, which keeps the marriage on a yin/yang equilibrium.


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## MBD (Sep 1, 2003)

Shudder! I still remember eating those dreadful cans of chilly, tuna and pasta with butter (I couldn't afford the sauce) as a student. My family was poor to it's not like I had a lot of choices for getting more money and all my cash went to my education. I think my youth was the only thing that saved me (even though my hair was falling out and I would bruise easily). If that happened now, I think I'd drop dead in a week!

I remember just wanting to have enough money to be able to make whatever food choices I could - I really just wanted some fruit.

I feel so grateful that even though I have a crummy work environment, I have the luxury of eating whatever I want - which for me means fruit & veg & not that nasty stuff - well pasta is still good but now I have nicer sauce or actually have sauce.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Britain hass recognized the relationship between fast food and the advertising thereof.

They are condisdering a bill to *ban* the advertising of fast food on television before 9 p.m.

I remember a time when the CRTC (dreaded by some here as draconian) used to ban ANY television advertising on any children's show

Young minds are no match for the wizardry of Madision Ave.

Perhaps the pursuit of the almighty dollar needs some restraint in light of the public (in this case our future) good.


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

It may work in Britain where society is not quite so litigous (sp?). I don't think it would have a hope in hell in the states though. Especially under the current big business loving regime.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

if you are correct Carex, then the epidemic of obese children and the subsequent health problems shall increase and only the pharma-corps will be the better for it

sad to see the cradle of our future be treated as fodder for the almighty dollar

what ever happened to "no child left behind?"


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

The children will all be well fed (calorie wise anyway). 

You can almost see the food giants lobbying the US gov with the pharmacy giants. One needs to adverstise and sell more product (food) to make a profit. The other needs to produce more drugs more quickly to combat the obesity epidemic and ulimately make more profit. I guess the health insurance guys would be in there too. 

I think I will crawl back into my cave now.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Macspectrum, according to Dept. of Education statistics, the "No child left behind" initiative is moving along as planned, at least on the testing side. Schools are being identified as being "up to par" and teaching literacy/numeracy to all the students in this particular school, or the students attending the school may move elsewhere, or be given money for special tutors. As well, the notion of Charter Schools shall be funded.

According to Sect. Paige, who resigned today,

"No Child Left Behind puts special emphasis on determining what educational programs and practices have been proven effective through rigorous scientific research. Federal funding is targeted to support these programs and teaching methods that work to improve student learning and achievement.

Reading programs are an example. No Child Left Behind supports scientifically based reading instruction programs in the early grades under the new Reading First program and in preschool under the new Early Reading First program. Funds are available to help teachers strengthen current skills and gain new ones in effective reading instructional techniques"

Sadly, the funding was put in place for the testing, by no funds have been made available for this school years for the programs or teacher PD. In that literacy education to pre and in-service teachers is my area of expertise, I am keenly aware of the shortcoming of the NCLB initiative.


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## james_squared (May 3, 2002)

Hello,

The low-income argument only holds for a very small proportion of the population. If 50 % of the population has unhealthy food choices, then this cannot be totally attributed to income as 50 % of the population IS NOT poor, by any stretch of the imagination.

People make choices and many of those choices are uninformed, despite the "efforts" of the government relating to food labelling, for example.

James


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

j_s, sad, but all too true. Time seems to be a greater factor in deciding what to eat, rather than finances, for many families. I am guilty of this myself, although when we make a MacDonalds run it is for their grilled chicken salads.


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

j_s, agreed, although the lower income bracket is more apt to be part of the problem (ie. the numbers are likely higher than 50% in that demographic). 

Isn't No Child Left Behind a strategy of testing that will ultimately lower the education standard in the US? "We don't want to leave anyone behind so we will pass them all and get a grant"


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Carex, aspects of NCLB are actually quite innovative, and it might have worked had Kerry been elected. Sadly, the testing is identifying children who are behind in literacy/numeracy. Then, these children may move to better schools (which is oftentimes impossible), get tutoring (the government promised money for this, but has not released the funds), or allow parents to start charter schools. However, the charter schools are usually set up by parents who want their children out of schools that are not helping many of the students in this school, even those the charter school children are not failing or behind in literacy/numeracy.


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

It is likely that parents interested enough in being involved in their childs education would be investigating charter schools first. And those that are involved usually have kids that are not rated below the standards. I think if I were a parent in some jurisdiction in the states that was advocating Creation Science in its curriculum I would be forming my own charter school quickly. Although I suppose one would still have to conform in some manner to the individual state's curriculum?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Re charter schools within the NCLB initiative, check out http://www.uscharterschools.org/pub/uscs_docs/r/nclb_guide.htm

It's the vagueness of the point "Refine curriculum and instruction" that has many wondering what is acceptable and/or unacceptable curriculum for a charter school.


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## MBD (Sep 1, 2003)

Yes, and in Europe fast food companies cannot directly advertise to children. To be totally turned off fast food - another good read is Fast Food Nation.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

MBD, the author of "The Fast Food Nation" was interviewed in "Super Size Me". Most interesting.


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## MBD (Sep 1, 2003)

Yes, I'll have to watch Supersize Me. It just seems so gross that I have to work myself up to it.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

There is only one gross scene, but the entire concept sends shivers throughout the average person who enjoys junk food.


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## redheadgod (Nov 18, 2003)

Have not seen it yet and really want to! Looks like a good film.

I have been living here in Finland since January and went back to Canada for a couple of months at the end of summer and man was I shocked! I had got use to not seeing overweight and obese people. The Finns here are very health aware and very active. And from what I understand awhile ago they had a country wide initiative to encourage healthy eating and exercise and it seems to have paid off. Most people seem to have a health weight here, not that there are not overweight people here but they are a much smaller percentage of the population and I dont think I have seen an obese Finn yet, only ones have been American tourists. If anything they have the opposite problem with people being to focused on being as thin as possible. 

The one thing I love over here is how active people are, they are always out walking, biking, and skiing. And the seniors.... wow, I have not seen so many seniors this active before, walking, biking, skiing, and the best zipping around on kick sleds in the winter. It gives me some hope for being a active senior and not being confined to an electric scooter that I seem to see more and more back home.

Oh ya and where I live has the most northerly McDonalds in the world!


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Redheadgod, where I live has the furthest easterly MacDonalds in North America. We should mate our two outlets and see what is created.


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

It would be greasy and have a foul stench.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

But the golden arches would span the Atlantic Ocean, and be seen from space.


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

We can only hope that this would never happen. 

Apologies for hi-jacking the original thread which was directed at tackling a serious topic. 

The sad thing about the "golden arches" is that they are becoming (scratch that they already are) a central part of north american culture. My daughter (5) who has been to McD's a grand total of 2 times in her life knows and recognizes the big yellow M as we drive down the street. "Look daddy there is McDonalds". Very scary.


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## Pelao (Oct 2, 2003)

An important topic. The issues are very personal and very public. I feel Pamela's points reflect my feelings perfectly. We need to think carefully about the why of certain behavoirs and symptoms, not just what we can see.

There are so many pressures on individuals, and so many choices.

My wife and I place a lot of effort on balancing our lives, and sharing this with our kids.

I like this from Pamela: very well said:



> I think that body type and weight is over emphasized to a certain point...especially for women. I know for me, it's about well being. If I'm eating right, exercising enough, reducing my stress and keeping my mental well being in check (ie. making sure I don't have any of those underlying issues such as depression etc...) then I have to be happy with how I look and feel. There is nothing more I can do.


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## Cynical Critic (Sep 2, 2002)

Dr.G. don't give Ronnie McRottens any new marketing ideas. They're crazy enough to do it. It's bad enough they have the 30-foot signs on the outskirts of some towns.

There has been a lot of insightful observations here. Societal problems are attributing to our fat continent. Sedentary life-style, TV, video games, the internet, an excess of unhealthy fast-food and more. I'd also argue we are an individualistic, 'I want it now' society that is bred to consume. We consume useless products and empty calories a like. Everyday we are being sold that buying this or that will bring a better life and happiness.

McDonald's is selling us greasy food but its disguised with a happy clown and abstract concepts like love (I'm lovin' it, indeed).


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

It is about the Canada food guide and getting enough exercise. That doesn't mean you have to run 15 km a day, but something that perhaps fits your lifestyle (course if your life style is couch potato, that may defeat the purpose). 

I recall an article in the Edmonton Journal about a woman that was obese. She decided to change her lifestyle so she could enjoy doing things with her kids. She became part of a group that walked around one of the malls. When she started, she needed help to finish the circuit. Now, a couple of years later, she is tirm and fit and walks with weights etc. Just from walking and eating right. It took 2 years; there was no silver bullet or instant miraculous change. She is inspiring. 

Here's to making good choices.


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## Cynical Critic (Sep 2, 2002)

Exactly. But we're a society that wants fast food and fast fixes. Little do people realize that change is gradual especially weight loss. It's easy to put the weight on but it's a much, much slower process to take it off.

Anyone who claims otherwise either has way too much freetime on their hands or is trying to sell you something. I'd bet on the latter over the former.


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

You are exactly right there CC. It is much harder to get back in shape than to stay in shape. The first week or so that you return to working out after a bit of a layoff are absolutely brutal and are likely a deterent to those that are way out of shape. 

It requires much willpower.


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## bopeep (Jun 7, 2004)

Lots of talk about changing lifestyles etc. 

A client of mine, a tri-athlete, used to say: The hardest part of working out is getting the gymbag through the door. 

And another one: 
We can always find the time to do the things we WANT to do. 

My point here is that we all say we should lose weight, go to the gym, change our lifestyles etc, it is far easier to just continue along the merry path of self-destruction. 

I am NOT saying that there is an ideal body shape, size, weight, body fat ratio. I am saying that everyone should just decide how fat/thin he/she is willing to be. Then live with the choice. I used to obsessively workout. I was an athlete when I was young, trained martial arts at LEAST 5 hours per week and was in remarkable shape. Was I happy? Nope, terrible marriage blah blah blah. Now a days I drink a bit more, eat a diet that isn't perfect, work my tail off at the farm, run around training my dogs. I carry a bit of flab on my behind, and my abs aren't washboard anymore. My reality is that if my gut doesn't shake when I hit a bump driving, if I can't feel my ass when I run then all is ok. 
I'm pretty content with that little slice of reality - especially a few decades into my life.









Cheers
Bo


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

CC, MacDonalds does not need my ideas. When you see the great golden arches in space, created by lasers, or an image sent up to the full or new moon each month of the arches, or the arches image beamed up onto the clouds on a cloudy day, or the arches in the fog, or subliminal arches flashing by on iPod commercials, I guess you shall blame me. Well, I'm not going out to get a couple of BigMacCheeseBaconFatSupreme, which is 2 1/2 pounds of meat, cheese, bacon with chicken fat and lard, and I shall eat them in one sitting. Then, when I die before the clock strikes one, you shall not have Dr.G. to kick around anymore. Bon soir, mon ami.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

> My reality is that if my gut doesn't shake when I hit a bump driving, if I can't feel my ass when I run then all is ok.
> I'm pretty content with that little slice of reality - especially a few decades into my life


Sounds to me like you have it all together there Bo!

When one is comfortable with oneself, one is comfortable with the world. Nice goin'!  

Cheers


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## bopeep (Jun 7, 2004)

I have a few other measures as well. 
One being a visual measure and the other being an audible measure. If I can see it, and if I can't hear it then we're good to go!


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

> If I can see it, and if I can't hear it then we're good to go!


Doesn't surprise me one bit!

Cheers


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"The Philosophy of Life According to Sinc" -- "When one is comfortable with oneself, one is comfortable with the world." Now that's a philosophy I can live with these days. Sinc the Wise, n'est pas?


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

To lose weight you need more cardio. Unfortunately, despite all the jokes about it, sex is not that great workout. I mean really how long does the average couple have sex for, 2-3 minutes or something (extremely sad but true).

I like the red wine part; that coupled with the Canada food guide and 30 minutes of cardio a day should do it for most of us.


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## Gretchen (Aug 16, 2004)

> the average couple have sex for, 2-3 minutes or something


    

...._the horror......the horror._ 

Yes a sad fact indeed. Perhaps I should have been specific. _Engage in sexual activity for at least 1 hour._ C'mon you mean to tell me you guys can't think of something to take up a measly hour???  

I smell one of those thread coming up.


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

Oh I'll bet we could think of a couple things.


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## Cynical Critic (Sep 2, 2002)

Dr.G. I would never blame you for McDonald's crazy corporate scheming - that is unless you're really a part of the McDonald's corporate ladder!  

Although ladder doesn't seem like an apt metaphor. In keeping with the obese theme I should cut out the ladder and replace it with a smorgasbord.

People just need to live more moderate lifestyles. Stop stuffing themselves with fatty over-sized portions. Stop buying into ridiculous diet schemes that take things over-board. (Atkins is dead people! Dead most likely from the bacon fat congealing in his arteries!)

As was stated at the beginning of this meandering thread, balance and moderation would go a long -- long -- way to reduce North Americas bloating bellies, rising heart attack rates and raising diabetes rates. When there is an increase in childhood diabetes (and there is!) it's time for serious changes to be made.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I seem to remember, not that terribly long ago, loudly claiming that fat and obesity were a FAR larger medical problem than tobacco useage. And would result in far more deaths. And cost ALL of us a LOT more money, in the long run.

I was roundly dissed for this. From all sides.

Now even the doctors and the news media are claiming the very same thing. They are saying that it is a far more widespread problem these days, than tobacco useage EVER was.









Nice to be vindicated. Yet again.   

Now...what shall we actually DO about it?

Any suggestions?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

CC, re your comment that "Dr.G. I would never blame you for McDonald's crazy corporate scheming - that is unless you're really a part of the McDonald's corporate ladder!", in the spirit of full disclosure, my son was given two shares of MacDonald stock by his grandmother, and they have split into four shares. However, this allows me to send in his proxie voting forms each year, because he does not want to be bothered with voting on issues such as executive compensation, etc. I sent a long letter once to MacDonalds pertaining to the fat content in their hamburgers, and I received a nice form letter in return.............with a coupon for a BigMac!!!


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## Pamela (Feb 20, 2003)

Apparently even European countries are having a problem with overweight children.

I'm not sure if it's the new type of sedentary lifestyle or if their diets are changing too...


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## Gretchen (Aug 16, 2004)

> Apparently even European countries are having a problem with overweight children.


The hand of America reaches far and wide.  

I think even in Europe things like video games and even computers in general will and are starting to have the same effect on people there as they do in the US. The 'electronic babysitter' as someone called it I think. 

OH!!!! Has everyone seen the LG commercial for the fridge with the TV built into it!!!??? I mean really just a perfect example of the whole problem right there. People eating ice cream sitting at the kitchen counter watching TV on the f#$king fridge!!!   Please tell me I'm not the only one that sees this?


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## bopeep (Jun 7, 2004)

There's nothing wrong with eating while you watch TV/read or whatever. It's what you do AFTER you eat that matters. 

On the other side though, is there no place that is sacred? I mean we have TVs in cars, planes, bathrooms, family rooms - every room in the house - now they are built into our appliances. 

It's like it is some sort of mind control device - that little blue flickering screen.... like moths to a flame.


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## Pamela (Feb 20, 2003)

actually bopeep, it is worse to eat in front of the tv apparently.

Studies show that people that eat while "distracted" by the tv or equivalent tend to eat more than those that sit at a table without distractions. The distraction doesn't allow you to monitor how much you are eating.

This especially matters when one eats "out of the bag" or box or whatever. When a portion hasn't been set aside.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"Portion control". Pamela, now you are sounding like my wife. Of course, I shall admit, that you are both correct in this view. Strangely enough, I portion control in front of the TV, but tend to overdo eating at the table due to my habit of going for seconds. I am trying to get this bad habit under control.


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## Gretchen (Aug 16, 2004)

Yep I've read that as well that eating while watching TV promotes longer eating times, in other words your more likely to eat the whole bag of chips because you aren't really thinking about what you are doing. 

Again another symptom of the whole problem, absent minded eating or mindless eating as they say.


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## bopeep (Jun 7, 2004)

Good point Pamela - hence my reference to 'mind control'. 

I made my statement assuming some semblance of self control.









Another aspect to this is thirst/hydration. Often our bodies misinterpret thirst as hunger. We choose not to drink water or other hydrating beverages, becoming dehydrated in the process. Often, when I feel hungry I will get some water to drink first - I tend to forget to eat and drink while I am working. 

Doc - why not try drinking a big glass of water BEFORE going back for seconds. I know someone who can hook ya up with some quality hydrating material.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Gretchen confessed;


> Oh and I'm 5' 10 1/2" 140lbs.


so now we add the 6" spikes and boom! - instant mistress


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## Pamela (Feb 20, 2003)

You are aware of the "napkin on the plate" trick aren't you Dr. G?

As soon as you are finished your first (and last!) portion, you put your napkin on your plate (or ruin it by dumping salt on it) so that you can't return for seconds. If you don't have the willpower to do this, then get your wife to throw her napkin on your plate as soon as she sees you're done your first portion.


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## bopeep (Jun 7, 2004)

> If you don't have the willpower to do this, then get your wife to throw her napkin on your plate as soon as she sees you're done your first portion.


Maybe get her to blow her nose into it BEFORE she puts it on your plate, just to seal the deal.


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## Pamela (Feb 20, 2003)

LOL!

Niiiiice.


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## Gretchen (Aug 16, 2004)

I'm not sure what the focus of the thread is, but I think that aside from medical conditions that are associated with large weight gain and obesity I think it's fair to say that the majority of 'fat' North Americans are really just neurotic over eaters that are just lazy in both eating habits and lifestyle. Sorry people but just because your boss is riding your ass or the kids at school are teasing you doesn't mean that you grab a tub of Ben & Jerry's or scarf a couple of Big Macs! Mean and callous? You bet! Give your head a shake. I have zero sympathy for someone that sits on the couch watching TV eating cookies all night and then keels over on the subway platform. I can have sympathy for the situation, but not for that.  

I gave up being 'North American' a long time ago, I eat and live like I'm in Europe. Live like a North American and die when I'm 60? Ahhhhhhhhhhh No Thanks!!!














Oh and I'm 5' 10 1/2" 140lbs. How is that distributed? Well that's for another thread...


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## Gretchen (Aug 16, 2004)

Another effective and entertaining solution is to take the 'offending' party clothes shopping. Take him to a nice store, preferrably a nice mens store that has attractive sales women on staff.  

Bring him a nice selection of pants or what ever you want, make sure that they are the size you'd like him to be without that really cool 'roll' around the middle. As he tries them on and they don't fit make sure you speak loudly enough for the _pretty_ sales woman to hear and mention how you've been noticing that, "You do seem to be getting a little chunky sweetie." or "I wasn't going to say anything, but you are getting kinda fat."  

He won't even look at you, he'll look right at the sales woman and give any number of desperate looks, she will smile that smile and he'll instantly rethink his eating habits.









I know it's cruel and sick and about as insensitve as you can get, but hey, if I want a fat boyfriend or _ husband_ (ieewww, that was gross) then I'd have started out with one.


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

Or you could be like the late Dominique Mobilio (Vancouver soccer player) who lived a healthly lifestyle (as far as we know) was in awesome shape and keeled over at the age of 35. 

Although I agree with the "pull up your bootstraps" attitude, I still believe there is more too it than societal laziness.


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## Gretchen (Aug 16, 2004)

Okay so you step on the scale on day and it says 190 and you 5' 9'' small boned. The answer is pretty simple, change the way you eat and get some excerise. It's not hard.  If the average North American threw out 1/4 of what they ate they'd still be eating too much but at least it would be a start.  And I don't think thin=healthy by the way either, but if you are thinner then you aren't stressing your body as much and that helps a lot. 

You wanna lose weight? Eat pasta, drink red wine and have lots of sex!!














Hey, if it works....


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Pamela, I now do not go back for seconds, and try to limit the portion of the first serving. My wife is an excellent cook, and although I do most of the cooking now, I also cook well and like my own cooking. Bottom line is that I need more exercise.


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## Gretchen (Aug 16, 2004)

Dr. G. I believe I've suggested a way for you to 'up' your working out time.....Sorry about the, well er, never mind..  

Oh and MS.... Concentrate young man, a little focus okay? You're never going to last like that.


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## Pamela (Feb 20, 2003)

Here's an article about child obesity:

http://healthandfitness.sympatico.msn.ca/Fitness/ContentPosting.aspx?contentid=6d44f85654844d8d8b64d8261ef9d721&show=False&number=0&showbyline=False&subtitle=&abc=abc

They've listed the 5 main killer types of foods that lead to obesity and diabetes.

I think I might eat 2 things on that list....once in a while at that! I couldn't IMAGINE eating all of them!?


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## agent4321 (Jun 25, 2004)

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm donuts!


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## bopeep (Jun 7, 2004)

Holy cow - nice diet. 


As a point of fact: A colleague of mine has a kid in school. I checked out the kid's lunchbox the other day and here's what I found: 

Lunchables
Chefboyardee ravioli
a bag of chips, 
a fruitloops milk and cereal bar
a strawberry cereal bar - apparently made with real fruit
oh and a teeny tiny box of raisins. 

Had a slice of processed cheese for breakfast [no kidding]

This kid is not 'encouraged' to eat fresh fruit and veggies - and will CRY when asked to eat a piece of cantaloup. 
How on EARTH is this kid supposed to accomplish anything at school when he has absolutely no brain food. 
Fruitloops milk and cereal bar?? Do people actually feed this to their kids? 
 

I get soooo angry about this stuff, I want to have these kids taken from their negligent parents. Ok.. off my soapbox now.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

My son was about 4 1/2 before he tasted his first chocolate, about 6 before his first MacDonalds hamberger, and he hates the taste of beer since I gave him a sip at the age of 7.


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

Bopeep, your list is frightening but very common. Made with 10% real fruit, how can you beat it. And all higly processed as well. 

My daughter (5) loved Halloween and ended up with bags of candy. She eats one piece every few days but is not beholden to it. The other day she asked for a snack and I suggested an orange. She thought it was a great idea and commented to me "Fruits are just like candy daddy, they are sweet and yummy!!" I hope she keeps on going. We are trying hard to point her in the right direction diet wise. 

(Crosses fingers).


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I gave out loads of raisins and sugarless gum this year at Halloween.


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## bopeep (Jun 7, 2004)

> "Fruits are just like candy...


I say this all the time. Squash and yams fall into the candy category too. 

When a kid tells me they don't even like grapes ...jeeze louise! What are these kids being fed? How can you NOT like grapes? [seedless little pockets of yummy goodness!]

How can a mum, in good conscience send her kid to school on a slice of processed cheese? c'mon people ! 
Hey, the kid has chronic ear infections, has that special translucent glow that well-nourised kids have these days, he hates reading and can recite several commercials to me.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- An apple a day really does keep the doctor away, thanks to strong antioxidants that fight cell damage, U.S. researchers reported Tuesday.


Luckily, not this doctor.


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## Pamela (Feb 20, 2003)

bopeep...that lunchbox. Holy Mother of God. Talk about child abuse.


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

But Pamela, that is the norm. It is frightening. 

Another interesting issue is, finishing everything on your plate. A very outdated concept. Our house rule is that you have to try everything on the plate at least once. If you aren't hungry don't keep eating. 

There are those that use dessert to prompt kids to eat their entire dinner. Dessert is served everynight. Yikes, it get served chez us about once every 2 weeks. the "sugar" as a reward scenario will backfire as life goes on.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

This is also why I contribute to the School Lunch Association. Many children would eat all sorts of junk if this group of fine people did not raise money and supply nutricious and hot meals at lunchtime for various children.


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

Is the School Lunch Association a local initiative or have I been duped? Is it like a hot lunch program in the states for underprivileged students?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Carex, yes, it is for students who are unable, for financial reasons, to have a real lunch. However, they provide food for any child who does not have a lunch, so that there is no real stigma attached to having one of their fine meals.


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

Being new to the school program (daughter just started kindie-garden), it is difficult to get a grasp sometimes on local vs. provincial vs. national programs. 

A great learning process so far. She doesn't get homework yet, just us!! Not fair.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Carex, as one who teaches university undergrads who are soon to be teachers, and grad students who are teachers, I send home homework that they have to do with their children, or someone's children. They get frustrated and bored with this task. Then I send them home with a task that is most enjoyable/unique/creative. I then ask them to compare the two............and tell them to always remember this lesson. Homework should NOT be busy work and should NOT be so difficult that only parents can undertake this task. Nor should it be too long in terms of time. 10 minutes per grade level. Thus, a 3rd grader should get 30 minutes of creative HW activities, many of them involving reading various things and listening to various things and writing various things, etc.


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## bopeep (Jun 7, 2004)

> bopeep...that lunchbox. Holy Mother of God. Talk about child abuse.


This is a fairly well to do family as well, they can financially afford to feed their kids properly, they just don't because when they ask the kids to eat stuff the kids complain. So better just give them what they want. 

This is why I need to be kept away from people. I tell them what I think of their parenting, life skills. I told the dad I thought that he and his wife were lousy parents.  

Maybe I'm not so sweet after all.









Nah, someone has to look out for those kids cause surely their parents don't give a rat's ass about them.


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

Being 5, the only 'homework' she gets is papers to sign for field trips, newsletters about the PAC etc. The only problem I expect she will have when she starts to get real homework in a few years is boredom.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Bopeep, while NO parent is able to force a child to eat, it IS the responsibility of effective parents to provide a variety of wholesome foods for a child to eat. When I became a single parent, and my wife took our stove, I had a hot place, an electric wok and a microwave, and my two children ate well. Luckily, my son is still a lover of apples, oranges, carrots, and sugar snap peas (which I grow organically).


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

Bopeep, I must comment. The scenario you described is all too common. Kids protest, we give in. Parenting discussion are tough though as you know, Little Johnny can do no wrong, just ask me. 

A very close friend of mine has a 3 year old boy. That 3 year old absolutely, without question, runs his household. He still does not talk well because he doesn't have to. He just shoves his parents or yells (loudly) and gets what he wants. Hollow threats are never carried out and he knows this. I was at my friend house (we were best man at each others weddings) and the boy asked me for a drink. I withheld until he would use one simple word "please". He threw a tantrum and the parents acquiesced (but i didn't). No thank you either. Am I a perfect parent, not likely but that is out of hand and it is common. 

One thing you don't realize before parenthood (although it helps to have trained a few dogs) is the amount of repetition that is needed for some of the simple learning tasks. Repeatedly saying, Please for 4 months can be tiring but when they finally get it, it feels great. 

It ain't easy, like dietary choices, but it is worth it. 

Perhaps my daughter will grow up to be a criminal, who knows, but she is getting a good start.


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## bopeep (Jun 7, 2004)

That's my point doc. Parents are refusing to set rules for their kids, allowing the kids to dictate what they eat. I guess they want the kids to eat something rather than nothing. 

I have no porblem letting them not eat dinner. I'll betcha they'll be good and hungry come morning.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

> Our house rule is that you have to try everything on the plate at least once.


And there, ladies and gents, you have the first rule of NOT raising a brat.

Rules.

Not only for what you eat, but for how you behave, what time you go to bed, who your friends are and on and on.

They did it right in the 50's when we all grew up with rules.

That is what is wrong with too many youngsters today, IMHO.

Cheers


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

You hit the nail on the head, Sinc!


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

Sinc, I fear we are hijacking this thread but life goes on. 

There is nothing wrong with Rules. Rules and individual choices are not mutually exclusive (although some thing there are). I live with Rules at work, when I recreate (fishing regs, speed limits), so I should be able to establish them in my home. Does it mean I am a tyrant, no. It makes for some great standoffs though when the rules are not followed. After all, my 5 year old inherited stubborn genes from both partents. It is like stubborn squared. I am definitely in trouble when the teenage years roll around.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

> It is like stubborn squared. I am definitely in trouble when the teenage years roll around.


Ah yes, but it will be a trim and fit teen you will have trouble with!

Cheers


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## bopeep (Jun 7, 2004)

nuttin wrong with rules. Lots of parents have a big problem with them though. 
This mum - bad lunch mum [just to stay on topic] - says that she wants her kids to be their own people, make their own decisions. I rant that a 4 year old can't be trusted to make the right decisions regarding his diet, and a 6 year old shouldn't HAVE to decide between a family thanksgiving and a friend's birthday party - again with the bad parenting. 

I think I'm gonna go now... I am just getting angry.


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

Don't get angry, why not have a carrot stick!? 

Actually, I can't stand raw carrots. Oh well, I still have to eat one (i gotta follow the rules too ya know) at dinner.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

> [just to stay on topic]


Geez, bo, I did use the word "trim" in my post!

Cheers


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## bopeep (Jun 7, 2004)

I get frustrated when something so simple eludes seemingly intelligent people. 

I lived off of veggies alone for MANY years. When my lifestyle changed i discovered that I wasn't eating a healthy vegetarian diet. Too many carbs, not enough protein. I decided to put meat back in my diet so as to maintain a healthy diet that worked with my lifestyle. I can NOT digest store bought beef, and can only eat farmgate beef in small doses. Lamb on the other hand....  

BTW - disgusting diet kids LOVE my lamb.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

> LOVE my lamb


Except me, remember?

Cheers


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## MBD (Sep 1, 2003)

Mmmmmmm Lamb!

As someone who had an eating disorder I must say I'm still apalled by the urge to be thin and also intoxicated by it. I had to tell myself it was unhealthy when I saw this really tall and scary thin girl at the mall the other day - you could see the bones in her butt! I don't think I'll ever have a good relationship with food but I do try to be mindful of what I eat as I try to be mindful of all things: see the truth, hear the truth, speak the truth.

Also as someone who is physically ill (off of work and all for a few days) because my environment is so dry and the air quality is so bad - it's been rough to try to exercise. But I must say, the jello diet may make me lose some more weight! Whoo hoo! Oh wait (or weight muhahahaha) it's unhealthy to be too thin too...damn it! Still stuck in the 80s!

[ November 17, 2004, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: MBD ]


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

As they say, only in America.


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## Pamela (Feb 20, 2003)

LOL!!!

Awesome!!


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## bopeep (Jun 7, 2004)

Hey they probably paid BIG BUX to workout on the stairmasters there, and no way are they gonna expend any extra energy on anything but stairs they have paid to use. 

Or maybe they gymbag is too heavy to lug up all those stairs. 

or... 

Bah that's pretty funny, no matter which way you slice it.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

IN the "they haven't learned anything yet......... Burger King just announced a 720 calorie breakfast sandwich. 












> The No. 2 fast food chain debuted its Enormous Omelet Sandwich Monday. The sandwich has one sausage patty, two eggs, two American cheese slices and three strips of bacon.
> 
> *That works out to 730 calories and 47 grams of fat *-- more than a Whopper sandwich, which the Burger King Web site said has 700 calories and 42 grams of fat.


Pretty soon the entire US will be too lethargic to make trouble for the planet........eat up, have one on me..


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

Mmmm...now, that's *MY* type of a breakfast sandwich! 

Before anyone gets too shocked, my breakfasts are usually huge...this morning I had what I considered a medium-sized breakfast of about 3 cups of leftover beef stew. A proper breakfast was what I had yesterday morning...about the same amount of leftover beef stew but with one cup of dried rice (cooks to about 3 cups I think). Tomorrow morning will be about 12 ounces (est'd) of leftover roast pork loin with 1 cup of dried rice. 

Lunch is usually 1 Royal Gala apple with a sandwich of homemade brown bread with two slices of deli meats.

Dinner is also huge but that's another story. 

P.S. Before anyone thinks that I'm some sort of pallid slug...I weigh train twice a week and I've just cleaned off my bike for my first ride of the season...two hours' so it will really hurt me.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

*After Heart Attack Eating Habits*

Breakfast: Two slices toast, different bread daily. V-8 juice, one cup coffee.


Lunch: Large bowl home made low fat soup, grain bread sandwich, salmon, tuna, tomato or low fat cheese.


Supper: Baked fish or, roast lean pork/beef/chicken with fresh boiled veggies.


Dessert: Fresh fruits, yogurt.

All washed down with skim milk and one clear tea per evening.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Swanson must have investments in the Funeral biz:


















Can you [email protected]' believe it? Who eats this much ****e?


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

« MannyP Design » said:


> Can you [email protected]' believe it? Who eats this much ****e?


Half the people that I know at work, that's who.


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## Hypno (Sep 27, 2003)

I think it's our work days that do it....i was in europe last summer and they seem so stop at lunch and have a good meal, usually at about 2pm then they eat a light meal in the evening(cheese, sausage, bread, etc. What i have noticed it that they really feast at lunch and have the whole day to work it off and then a light snack in the evening. North americans are total opposite light snack at lunch then big meal in the evening and most(not all) end the evening in front of the tube snacking more till bed time. The body has no time to work that off. Very little couch potatoes in the evening in Europe and i think thats the main problem and we here work long hours forcing us to eat like this.....NORTH AMERICA LIFESYLES ARE KILLING US!!!! WORK, EAT, SLEEP . The first place i went after my trip to europe was canada's wonderland i was truly at awww at how many fat people i saw it was strange and really made me wonder.....SAD!!


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I also like a "meal" in the morning - some protein and veggies - I find I need to work effectively. But not like that sucker. 

Then light at lunch and whatever at 5-6 pm. 

My weakness is lots of lattes and I do love yogurt. Not enough walking I think is a NA problem.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

There are no fast food outlets on Salt Spring Island. We used to have a Dairy Queen here on The Rock, but it closed last year.

And I figured out quite some time ago that making all of my meals from scratch was far cheaper than eating out (I learned this when I was a starving artist). Seems to be a lot healthier, as well.

Meanwhile, I've been busy hauling fifty pound bottles of water all over the place (about a hundred of them each day) and chopping several cords of wood to heat my house next winter. There's also spring planting to take care of...so I've been a bit too busy to get to the gym lately. (arf arf arf) 

I suspect that this "Fat Nation" thing is just one more on the list of the many problems that seem to plague the city dwellers. My heart bleeds for them.


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

Don't kid yourself MacNutt, there are just as many out of shape people in the country. Prairie farmers may work long and hard, but they likely do it in the seat of a combine and eat meals full of carbs (potatoes) and fat (gravy). It's as much cultural as anything. Now give that man a 1/4 section and 2 oxen to work his land and he will look like Arnie!


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Isn't narcissism wonderful.......mirror mirror on the wall.........n' all.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Sorry macdoc...too busy working hard every day and sweating to take time out to stare in any mirrors. And, while I agree that some rural prarie types are still stuck on the old "meat and potatoes" diet, I can reassure the rest of you that most rural west coast islanders are very much into the organic thing. Big TIME. 

Must be why we are seeing a steady stream of refugees from the Big Stinky moving out here these days. They come for the both the good weather and the healthy west coast lifestyle. 

In fact my neighbor Alex just moved his whole family out here from Toronto for that very reason. He said he couldn't wait to leave the big smelly mess and all of the bad food choices behind him. 

The kids aren't missing McDonalds at all.


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