# Keynote & Powerpoint, Pages & Word



## csonni

Anyone use all 4 and can you make any judgments on the better of the two (or four)? Does iWorks '08 exceed MS's capabilities? What about cross-platform? Keynote and Pages exporting to PC?


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## minnes

I think Keynote and Pages are much better at making beautiful documents, Word may still have a few more word processing features that are lacking in Pages.
I think Keynote is now superior to Powerpoint. I cant think of what Powerpoint does better, except its native to windows. The nice thing about Keynote is integrates into the other iLife apps. There is inproved cross platform in iWork 08, but it's still not great at some advanced formatting. Im told that Excell macros are not at all supporeted in Numbers. I think Numbers and Excel are very different apps. 
Ithink if you are primarily a Mac user, and nostly want a Word Processing and Presentation suite then iWork is a great deal at $80 Can, I dont see how you can lose with the free demo.


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## fyrefly

I also think Keynote is superior to Powerpoint. While PPT probably has more features, almost no-one uses them, and the end products are much better looking with much less time spent on Keynote.

The New Pages with it's basic "Word Processor" functionality is inching closer and closer to a nice merger between Adobe's old Pagemaker Software, and Basic MS Word functionality. 

I haven't played with Numbers yet, but it seems like it will do what basic users need, without all those crazy advanced PPT features.

I feel like the iWork Suite is somewhat Office Lite with some cooler design stuff built-in.


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## macsackbut

Can't speak to Keynote, but the new version of Pages seems to have much superiour Word compatibility now. The includsion of change tracking is the biggie, but comments are there too now (not sure if they were in Pages 2). 

That said, Word compatibility is not perfect. If you work with fairly uncomplicated documents, Word compatibility shouldn't be a problem, but as soon as the formatting gets complex, you're bound to run into problems. 

My advice to most people would be that if you are the one creating the documents in Pages that others will be opening in Word, then it will probably be less of a problem than if others are creating the documents in Word and you have to open and edit them in Pages then return them in Word format.


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## AppleAuthority

I haven't used iWork '08 yet, but generally I keep OpenOffice.org installed for Word documents that Pages 2 can't open correctly. I've totally removed MS Office from my internal drive (I have it on an external for times when I really need it), and rely on iWork and OpenOffice.

And as mentioned, Keynote in my opinion is far superior to PowerPoint. Hands down.


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## CubaMark

The combination of iLife with NeoOffice is finally a realistic MS-Office-killer.

I've been playing with Keynote '08 today - a great upgrade! The new animation possibilities alone make this worth the upgrade. One issue related to this: slides can now become very, very complicated to deal with if you are combining lots of elements with lots of actions! But for 95% of people doing presentations, that's not likely to be a huge issue.

I would also like to have seen a bit more control over the audio (narration and soundtrack) features, but this would seem to put ProfCast on the sidelines.

M


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## csonni

Great replies. Thanks so much. I think I'll order a copy when I return home. Never did try out the demo version on my new MacBook. I trashed it. But now, an even better version is out.


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## macsackbut

You can download a 30-day trial of the new version at 
Apple - iWork - Trial


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## Dr.G.

csonni, when I taught on-campus here at Memorial, I used Keynote for my presentations. Students who, in other courses, were lulled into a PP-like sleep would perk up at the transitions of my presentation.


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## Fox

What is the difference between NeoOffice and Open Office? Do both do perfect translations of Word documents? Do both read Word documents flawlessly?


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## iMatt

I plan to run in free trial mode a while longer, but will almost certainly spring for iWork.

Unlike Word v. X (don't know about 2004), Pages opens the new Word format, .docx. Even though I've only received one .docx file so far, there will surely be many more to come. As long as formatting isn't an issue (and it rarely is for me), that feature alone makes Pages well worth buying. 

There are some Pages features I've noticed and really like. One is "Copy & Paste Style". WriteNow had that back around 1987, and I've always liked it better than Word's convoluted means of handling styles.

Two things that bother me after my brief tests: there's no apparent way of saving in Word format by default (must use "Export..." every time) and the implementation of text highlighting seems needlessly roundabout, unless I'm missing something. Might have to get my feet wet with Automator for these things.

Numbers looks like a clear upgrade over Excel v. X, as I don't use advanced features of the latter. 

Don't really care about Keynote. As long as it transparently opens and saves Powerpoint files, that's good enough for me.

I saw a quote from someone at Apple saying iWork is aimed mainly at those who don't need to go back-and-forth a lot with Office users. By that measure I'm not really in the target market, but I still think it's worthwhile.


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## jhollington

I've been a fan of Keynote since the last iteration of iWork ('06), and IMHO it blew away Powerpoint even back then. Of course, presentations are less likely to be collaborative documents, so it's easier to work on a presentation in an island, and I opened many of my older "stock" presentations from my Powerpoint days and took the time to polish them up for Keynote (they worked reasonably well as-is, but I wanted to take advantage of Keynote's abilities to pretty them up).

Thus far, Numbers compatibility with Excel has been just fine for anything that I do, since I don't use a lot of complex macros. All basic formulas seem to work fine. Further, since Microsoft seems to be abandoning VB support in Excel 2008 (when it gets here), there may not be much reason to stay with Excel in the future _anyway_, since any macros in a Windows-based world likely won't translate very well to the Mac versions.

I've always tended to prefer pages for documents that I'm creating myself, but the '06 version did not offer any kind of decent Word compatibility, and I collaborate on a lot of documents. I'm not sold on whether Pages '08 is going to cut it in this regard, but I suspect that it won't. I've been looking at NeoOffice as a possible alternative, as I'd like to get the last of the Rosetta apps off my MBP, and Office 2008 now seems way too far away to wait for.

The bottom line, however, is that Pages is much better for anything that fits into the desktop publishing category (almost a good InDesign Ultra-Lite for simple projects), and Pages '08 seems to have bridged the gap to becoming a reasonable word processing app (Pages '06 still felt too much like a DTP app and not enough like a WP app, which was great for certain things, but not so good for others).


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## psychodad

I feel Keynote is far superior to PPT: ease of use through a simple, intuitive interface being the main reason.

Pages is neat, but even in '08 it lacks an autosave feature (or at least one that I could find). That's a small but significant item for me.

I played with Numbers. For most users it is not only adequate, but easier to use than Excel.

I doubt if I will buy iWork 08. My existing keynote is great and I prefer Nisus for word-processing, although all my initial copy is written in Scrivener.


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## CubaMark

Fox said:


> What is the difference between NeoOffice and Open Office? Do both do perfect translations of Word documents? Do both read Word documents flawlessly?


NeoOffice is OSX-native, and much prettier than OpenOffice.

OpenOffice requires you to install the X11 windowing environment from your original System DVDs, and must be running in order for OpenOffice to work (essentially, you're running two programs).

I haven't seen any major arguments for running OpenOffice instead of NeoOffice - the Neo crew have done an amazing job.


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## hUssain

I've never liked OpenOffice, because it's always felt like a subpar version of Office. And playing with NeoOffice leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth. One thing I dislike about NeoOffice and OpenOffice for mac is the lack of cooperation with these two groups, instead of building one define OpenOffice build together, they release their own versions of the nearly the same office suite.

I haven't used Office 2004, but if it is anything like Office 2003(Windows), iWorks '08 would be a better bet. On my Vista box, I use Office 2007, and if this is any idication of how Office 2008 will turn out, I would suggest Office 2008 for word processing, the UI in pages doesn't seem to offer the flexibility that Office 2007 does. I don't have much experience with the presentation software. If you can't wait, iWorks '08 it is. One thing I don't like about iWorks '08 is the fact that the ability to save (export) to docx (xlsx) is missing.


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## Oakbridge

Fox said:


> What is the difference between NeoOffice and Open Office? Do both do perfect translations of Word documents? Do both read Word documents flawlessly?


No, it has been my experience that while they are 'good', they are not perfect. I would suggest them to someone who needs to open and work on MS Office documents once and a while. Like a family whose kids share documents with other kids at school. No sense shelling out $200 bucks for MS Office when you use it 4-5 times a year. 

I have had problems with password protected documents, macros, and a few other things that Office users tend to take for granted. 

I may abandon MS Office all together. For the past year I've been using Pages for any documents that I create myself such as project specifications, manuals, letters, etc. I will use Word/Excel to open documents that my clients send me but that's about it, and that happens rarely these days. I've never used PowerPoint, I have started to do some presentations and they've all been done in Keynote. I've already played with the new version and I am looking forward to using it more. I've never been a big spreadsheet user, so Numbers will probably handle what I need.

There is no 'blanket' answer for whether a product will work for you or not. Each of us has our own separate needs and our own tolerance for what we will accept. For me, the tolerance level of using NeoOffice and OpenOffice was low. I didn't want to fuss with the apps to get them to work the way I needed, so I paid for something that gave me less hassles. Now that I've got a $79 solution, I don't see any need to use NeoOffice or OpenOffice. 

Your needs are probably different.


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## CubaMark

Hmmm.  Found one sniggling little thing that Pages apparently can't do (easily?): 


> *Pages: Table of contents uses Arabic numerals only*
> 
> When you create a document in Pages, you can add page numbers to your pages, and even choose a numbering format (such as 1, 2, 3; A, B, C; or I, II, III). If you create a table of contents (TOC) for your document, the TOC will always display page numbers as Arabic numerals (1, 2, 3), even if you selected a different format for your page numbers (such as if you chose the letter scheme A, B, C).
> 
> If your page numbers are not Arabic numerals, your document may be difficult to navigate since the TOC and page numbers won't match. As a general rule, you should use Arabic numerals to number your pages if you plan on including a TOC so that the TOC will reference page numbers correctly.
> 
> If you've used a different numbering format, you can edit your TOC using this workaround:
> 
> Export your document as an RTF (Rich Text Format) document (from the File menu, choose Export, then select the RTF radio button in the resulting dialog).
> Open the RTF in Pages (from the File menu, choose Open or drag the RTF file onto the Pages icon in the Dock).
> 
> Manually change the numbers in the Table of Contents section so that they match your page number scheme.
> 
> Please note that some of your formatting may change during this process and may need to be corrected.


Well... this won't work for me. I need a TOC that is capable of showing i, ii, iii, etc. for the frontmatter of a document, and then begin with the main body text using Roman numerals 1, 2, 3, etc.

Shoot.

M


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## fyrefly

I love Pages too -- especially the new '08 Version -- but I've had some issues with getting "stuck" in a numbered list and then the software not picking up later number if I can somehow "Get out" of the list.

IE: I type 1. XXX ERDFDFGSDTASDSDF And then press enter -- it autocorrects to a numbered list. Great. I get a 2. and I Type some stuff. Now... If I want to get out of the list after this -- it's pretty hard. Pressing multiple returns just generates more numbers. Shift return does what it should, and just soft returns me to the next line, but still locks me into the numbered list. 

A Little frustrating.


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## rgray

*export as Flash..*

I am awaiting the truck with my order of iLife and iWork... I just heard that you can export Keynote presentations as standalone Flash files in this version... If true I am quite interested. Has anyone played with this feature???


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## fyrefly

Keynote will export an SWF file for you. I've not played with this feature in Keynote '08 yet, though. I'd assume it's similar to the Quicktime export featured in the earlier versions, just in a different format.


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## singingcrow

fyrefly said:


> I love Pages too -- especially the new '08 Version -- but I've had some issues with getting "stuck" in a numbered list and then the software not picking up later number if I can somehow "Get out" of the list.
> 
> IE: I type 1. XXX ERDFDFGSDTASDSDF And then press enter -- it autocorrects to a numbered list. Great. I get a 2. and I Type some stuff. Now... If I want to get out of the list after this -- it's pretty hard. Pressing multiple returns just generates more numbers. Shift return does what it should, and just soft returns me to the next line, but still locks me into the numbered list.
> 
> A Little frustrating.


To "get out" of the numbered list, finish typing your last list item, hit return, then go to the list thingy on the toolbar and choose "none". At this point you may continue as you wish.

Oh! And I much prefer Pages to Word. And now wit this new Word Processing format, the whole idea of thinking I need Word has gone right out the window. And bonus! The page layout format is sweet, simple and fast! 

Keynote? People always ask me what I created my presentations with, because it looks so professional. And that was wiith iWork '05, way before this great update. As far as I'm concerned, PP does a great job, but it's not quite as easy to use, and there are things you can do with keynote PP users can only dream about.


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## csonni

Just got my iWork '08 in the mail today. I am switching over from MS Excel to Numbers, but Numbers seems to take longer to open files as well as more spinning beachballs. I could understand this with Excel (my older version that is), but isn't iWork all native?


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## (( p g ))

I bought iWork '08 and found that the new version of Keynote is worth the price of the licence alone. It's that solid and that much of an improvement over PowerPoint.

Pages is fine. It still has the occasional issue with formatting, but it makes up for that in being faster to load and to run on Intel Macs versus pokey old Word. 

I don't use spreadsheets much, but from what I have seen so farm Numbers seems like a competent replacement for most. The templates they include are really helpful...eye-catching, too.


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## Caillou

I use presentation-format documents a lot. Creating them with Keynote is so much faster, for a much better looking results.

Today I discovered an option with Tables. You can create alternate color rows with one click! (See table inspection section, last option at the bottom.)

Fact is, everytime I use Keynote, I still discover new possibilities. And still save time producing my material.

Caveat: this current version still does not export all features to PowerPoint (for the rest of them!). E.g. 2-column slides transform into 1-column slides that scroll down and down. Slide transitions do not export to Flash I also found today.

Negative point : one has to get used to a tad more mouse movement however, going back and forth between slide content and inspector commands.

Nevertheless, overall : thumb's up for KN (I feel the same about Pages)


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## csonni

Any comments about speed in opening files and beachballs on your ends?


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## CubaMark

There is one critical issue with Keynote that - hopefully - will be addressed by Apple soon, and one that makes it problematic for any presentation.

The darn thing reboots my MacBook at the most inopportune moment.

See this thread at Apple Discussions, where we're trying to make heads & tails of this thing.

If anyone else has experienced this, please contribute to the thread.

M.


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## Zapodidae

I'll add my voice to those who say that Keynote is superior to PPT, in terms of features, ease of use and results. And perhaps best of all, your presentation don't look like they were made in Powerpoint. Everyone is totally bored with those lame templates and endless slides of Arial 24 pt. 

Pages 08 is a huge upgrade, but if you need to collaborate with Word/windows users, stick with Word. Translation is not perfect, and you'll end up spending extra time reformatting. The same goes for OpenOffice/NeoOffice Writer.

Opening external formats in iWork can take a long time for complex documents. Just no way around that one.


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## csonni

Just downloaded and installed all the iWork App updates. Again, I confirm that Numbers takes dreadfully long to open up my 800 kb Excel file. I did a "Save As" and then tried opening the "native" Numbers file. Same terrible performance. Excel opens it up almost immediately. I'm really disappointed in Numbers. Not sure about Pages and Keynote yet.


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## Moscool

I must be the thick one because I think that PP is definitely easier to use than KN...

I have two beefs: (i) I don't really understand the image size conventions (i.e. what size I should define my presentation for when I have no clue in advance of what type of projector or computer screen I will be using) and (ii) I want to be able to customise my default masters easily. So far KN beats me whereas in PP it's a doddle. So is importing graphics and you are not interested in using iLife.

Also, it's a PP world out there and KN is particularly bad at PPS playback (they usually appear in small screen size + they never play sounds properly).

KN has a clear advantage on PP though: it's charting ability is amazingly intuitive and elegant. Having spent time with the new Office 08, I am somewhat disappointed by the new Ribbon: great concept but no facility to say: "hey, great basic graphic, now let me tweak it as an object".

Finally, KN doesn't read new Office/Windows 2007 files natively (or Office 2008 for that matter) and that's a big negative if you intend to go back and forth between platforms.

As far as Pages is concerned I can only report what my secretary tells me (I use Word daily but she has reformatted all our colour documents using Pages): things look much more beautiful in Pages but its is a royal pain to use, even with the improvements of '08

Finally Numbers: If you forgive the stupid name and crappy file extension (Hellooo Spotlight perhaps?) this is a very elegant product. We have standardised all our forms on Numbers and the killer feature is the multiple tables on the same page. Otherwise it is as counter-intuitive as the other two apps and I keep using Excel on a daily basis.

Conclusion: it's an imperfect world out there, so I find that I keep having to purchase both suites. If I didn't have to interface with Office all the time (clients etc.) I would probably take the time to learn these apps properly. I have probably given them 5-10 hours each and they have defeated me to some extent. Life's too short.


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## csonni

Moscool- do you have performance issues opening Numbers documents? It took nearly 1 minute to open mine.


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## Moscool

Not really

What's your configuration? In particular, how much HD space do you have?


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## csonni

On the drive I'm working off of- 55 gigs left on my OS partition of 75 gigs and 75 gigs left on my files partition of 158 gigs. I have 1.5 gigs of ram as well.


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## Moscool

That should be plenty. I suggest a good cleanup (Onyx etc.) + a trashing of iWork prefs afterwards


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## csonni

I've run DW and Cocktail on my relatively new install (OS). iWork is also a new install, so I don't see what trashing the prefs would do since I've only opened 2 documents so far. I''ll give it a try, though.


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## Moscool

Tricky. I had not had any perf problems although the first time it may have taken a while (I honestly don't remember). Perhaps it's the contrary (i.e. it takes a while to build prefs the first time?) My specs are in my signature; yours don't sound that different.


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## csonni

Just deleted my Numbers pref file. No difference. I tried a 48 kb file which opened somewhat faster, but still not to specs. I get the spinning beachball along with the wait.


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## csonni

Just started a new "native" Numbers file. Pasted just a bit of data into it. Saved it and closed it. Opened with still a 6 second delay with a quick beachball. Not acceptable. This behavior occurred on my MacBook as well when I first purchased iWork. By the way, I ran Onyx with no improvement in speed.


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## Moscool

Well, 6 seconds better than 1 minute no? 
If that's a consolation, MS Office 2008 apps are quite slow to launch too. They call it progress...


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## Moscool

This should please you...


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## csonni

Just added several more sheets to this native document. Pasting alone brings about the beachball for several seconds with some strange window flash like it's trying to rethink in the process. Got the file up to 500 kb and opening it now takes nearly 20 seconds. If this is the experience of other users, than Numbers is [was] not ready for prime time. In closing my Numbers document, Numbers now froze up on me and is not responding. Something buggy is going on.


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## chas_m

I used all four (iWork and Word) up until the latest version of Word, so I can't speak to that part.

I concur with the opinions offered so far:
*Pages* - creates WAY better looking documents than Word, but lacks a lot of the "power" features. Has "pretty good" Word compatibility back and forth, but not perfect.

*Numbers* - for visual thinkers like myself, Numbers is the first thing that has actually ever made me WANT to do a spreadsheet. It's beautiful, but I think people who have actually learned Excel will find it underpowered and confusing as hell. Visual learners will have a field day with it, especially if they've not learned Excel or generally avoided spreadsheets like I have. 

*Keynote* - THE reason to buy iWork. Blows Powerpoint completely out of the water in most areas. PP still has few tricks up its sleeve, but Keynote is for 90% of users a vastly superior alternative that creates WAY better looking presentations.

For the record, Word 2004 for Mac wasn't so bad. MS have done worse (a LOT worse) in the past. I haven't found a need for Word in anything I do (hell, 99.9% of the Word docs I get could be saved as text or rtfd and lose NOTHING), so I doubt I'll be upgrading to Word 08. Should I ever need something more powerful than Pages or TextEdit to open doc/docx files, I'll download NeoOffice or AbiWord or OpenOffice or Bean or Mariner Write or ... well you get the idea.


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## Adrian.

I have iwork 08 and and office 04 and I would much rather use pages. Numbers is great if you are just doing some basic financial balancing etc. Keynote is absolutely fabulous.

cheers.


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## TheChemist

csonni said:


> Opened with still a 6 second delay with a quick beachball. Not acceptable. This behavior occurred on my MacBook as well when I first purchased iWork. By the way, I ran Onyx with no improvement in speed.


I found that running Xslimmer helped speed things up. Just remember to run it after every update.

You can also remove certain language files from the applications by selecting Get Info and unchecking the languages you don't use.


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## csonni

Just ran Xslimmer (howbeit an older version-1.1.3) with no success. Also unchecked all languages but English. No change. If I knew that this was was all other Numbers users were experiencing, than maybe I could come to peace with it (the horror of the thought!).


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## BikerRob

iMatt ... perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you are speaking about here.

If I want to highlight text, it's incredibly easy. I select the text I want highlighted, then choose the box on the tool bar right beside the color selector (the one with the small 'a' in it. It opens a color dialogue box, and I choose the color of the highlighter I want, and I'm done.

Is this what you're trying to do?

Rob




iMatt said:


> Two things that bother me after my brief tests: there's no apparent way of saving in Word format by default (must use "Export..." every time) and the implementation of text highlighting seems needlessly roundabout, unless I'm missing something. Might have to get my feet wet with Automator for these things.


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## cramar

*Got all of 'em*

Well I have the new Home and Student Office 2008, and iWorks 08, plus NeoOffice. The main reason I got the new Office after waiting for 8 months is that I miss my old familar friend Word which I've known and loved since Word 2.0 on Windows 3.1. Now I can get rid of that crap NeoOffice. 

Word 2008 is slick like a new Lexis and I know how to use it for long documents. It is the best version of Word I've ever seen. NeoOffice seems like it was designed by a committee of Unix hackers. Oh yes, it was! It is like a 1998 Chevy by comparison. Hey it is free! You get what you pay for!

I've found major formatting errors when using Neo Office to open Word docs designed by others who don't know how to use Word. They tend to try a bunch of things until something gives the result they want and stick with it. Their unorthodox approach confuses NeoOffice. I'm just sick of adjusting this and that to get the doc to look like it was intended when created in Word. It is too idiosyncratic for me! Plus, I'm always trying to figure out how to do something in NeoOffice that is plain easy to do in Word. Some things you cannot do at all. In fact, I prefer using Word 97 on my old Windows 95 box to using NeoOffice on my Mac.

I love Pages though. It is the closest thing to the original Pagemaker on the Mac, which is my all-time favourite software. For page layout, Pages is great! For long books, manuals, and all manner of other docs, Word 2008 is my new tool!

Haven't run through the new PowerPoint yet, but I love Keynote. 

I'm not an Excel power user, but it is better than NeoOffice's version of course. Numbers I have only used once.


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## BlueMax

In following the old rule: [twisted voice] _"It's always better to post in an existing thread than start a new one!!"_

...ahem...

I've always been impressed by Apple's Keynote, but this marks the first time I actually sat down with a mac and played with it for 15 minutes.

It makes PowerPoint look like absolute _garbage!!_ Keynote is absolutely glorious!!!  :love2: The visual effects it can do simply blow Powerpoint out of the water - no contest! Beyond WORDS - no contest!!!

Just unbelievable... why people still use Powerpoint at all is beyond me! This is a fine example of ONE APPLICATION ALONE making having a Mac worthwhile! 


Wow.

....just wow. 

:yikes:


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## CubaMark

I just warms the cockles of my heart when this happens...


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## BlueMax

After seeing so many low-quality crapulent Powerpoint presentations done on several jobsites, I could just imagine how doing a Keynote show could wind up in a promotion or two... they just look so much better!

The difference between talentless scribble vs. a high-cost professional, polished presentation made my experts!


The content can be mostly the same, but the delivery is so much better.... like giving two equal pieces of chicken to two different kitchens. 
One deep-fries it, tosses it on a bun, wraps it in wax paper and tosses it to you-
the other marinates it, roasts it, bastes it, sears it, seasons it, garnishes it and hands you back a decorated plate with the most sensational chicken breast ever.

...now which one is going to do a better job of convincing your audience to your cause?


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## Moscool

Hey guys, I would like to believe you but evidence so far is that I just don't...

I can put a PowerPoint together really quickly, I have more control on text and I can modify master slides in a wink. PP also handles drawing objects with more variety and adaptability. On the plus side Keynote has better charting and better transitions.

So here is a challenge: PM me so send me 'better' KN presentations or point me to web sites where I can find them. I am not talking about absolute photo shows or 'takes 10 days to produce' exquisite presentations to run on a kiosk at an exhibition; I am talking PP beating business presentations of the like used in companies and universities every day...


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## BlueMax

PP is all I've ever used, I found it to be incredibly weak in graphic quality. Even the text had jagged, pixelated edges like before the days of Cleartype. Scaling took so much CPU power it looked horrible, transitions were simple wipes, moving graphics across the screen was klunky...

I didn't like it.... maybe it's improved 1000% in the last revision? :lmao:


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## Eric0

Moscool said:


> Hey guys, I would like to believe you but evidence so far is that I just don't...
> 
> So here is a challenge: PM me so send me 'better' KN presentations or point me to web sites where I can find them. I am not talking about absolute photo shows or 'takes 10 days to produce' exquisite presentations to run on a kiosk at an exhibition; I am talking PP beating business presentations of the like used in companies and universities every day...


I've sent you a pm with a pdf version of a KN I made last year. A few slides have been removed or modified for confidentiality.


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## Moscool

Eric, many thanks for the two presentations. 

As I said above, there is nothing there that I couldn't bang together quickly in PP. Besides, the KN version appears in 'small size' when I play it (I assume it's down to default settings as I have a higher def graphics card).

So, I remain unconvinced: KN is nice but definitely not a must have for existing PP users.


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