# What do you use for surge protection?



## satchmo (May 26, 2005)

Is a simple power bar with surge protection good enough for a one computer/printer setup?
I've been thinking of upgrading to something like those APC Backup Surge Protectors but they're $80+. Right now Dell has a Belkin protector for only $20 but is that just a fancy power bar?


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## modsuperstar (Nov 23, 2004)

I've bought a couple of Noma surge-guards from Canadian Tire. They run about $25-35 and have phone and cable surge protection as well.


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## Stephanie (Jul 21, 2004)

We have a bunch of Uninteruptable Power Supplies here at work, they're all APC. They seem to do a good job with surges and dips. They've weathered things pretty well, between a machine shop next door, the airconditioners above us, and a faulty relay in the utility room that was arcing intermittently for a few weeks.

They run in the $100 - $150 range, they're all fairly light-duty, like 10 or 15 mins of backup power, but they seem to do the job fine.

-Stephanie


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## Apple101 (Jan 22, 2006)

Never ever ever settle for a cheap surge suppressor as they offer no were near adequate protection for your equipment. If you have a desktop unit you should technically use a UPS like what Stephanie and I have posted. It may cost more but you need to weigh the difference between the cost of your connected equipment and the cost of the surge suppressor.


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## pollux (May 1, 2000)

I use UPS (uninterrupted power supply) with AVR (auto voltage regulator) instead of a simple surge protector. Yes they cost more but I think it's worth it.


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## Apple101 (Jan 22, 2006)

pollux said:


> I use UPS (uninterrupted power supply) with AVR (auto voltage regulator) instead of a simple surge protector. Yes they cost more but I think it's worth it.


Couldn’t agree more!!!


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

I vote for APC...hasn't failed me yet!


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

A UPS with AVR is definitely the way to go. You get the spike protection AND the back up power for the same price as spike protection only if you buy the UPS on sale (and they always seem to be on sale).

Apple 101 - what exactly is wrong with a Belkin UPS? I have been using three different Belkins with three different Macs for over a year now with absolutely no problems. They take over and keep the systems running when the power fails, no problems through several lightning storms and they have a nice Mac compatible set up and monitor capability.
I actually abused a little 550VA one for about six months by having a pretty much fully loaded G4 connected to it including a 19-inch trinitron monitor, as well as the DSL modem and router. I had to hold the power button in whenever I turned on the monitor because of the high surge current, otherwise the UPS would trip.
Eventually replaced the Trinitron with a 19-inch LCD...problem eliminated.


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## green_ears (Feb 26, 2005)

I own a Belkin UPS + AVR (got it on special like half price) at the same time I bought my first mac. It keeps my iMac and ADSL modem/router powered for 30 minutes when there's an outage (it says it can do 45 minutes for my setup, but I haven't managed when actually using it to do work) and cleans the power during brownouts like in thunderstorms. I got all my other gear plugged into the non-powered ones for surge protection (speakers, printer). Totally satisfied. For today's price, I think UPS is the only way to go to protect your investment and avoid loosing all your work when the power goes out. Plus you get to safely shutdown your computer.

Oh, if esthetics is an issue, Belkin makes prettier UPS than APC. ;OP


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

green_ears said:


> Oh, if esthetics is an issue, Belkin makes prettier UPS than APC. ;OP


Absolutely. I also found their form factor fitted better under the computer desk that APC and the others.
With all the UPS's you also get a healthy warranty should they not protect your gear - no idea however if you can ever collect.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

I never heard of Tripp Lite before this thread; never came up when I was researching UPS units a couple of years ago.

Did Belkin at least replace your HP?


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

Apple 101 -

I checked out their Canadian retailers.
The only one on the list I deal with is Compusmart. I don't recall ever seeing a tripp lite in the stores I went to in Toronto and Montreal.
On the Compusmart website there is only one lonely 1000 VA Tripp Lite unit which is far too big for what I need. 
I calculated my requirements using the Tripp lite website and came up with 83 Watts.
I think that's actually too low for a G4 with two hard drives, 2 extra PCI slots used, a 19 inch LCD and a DSL modem.
I ended up with a 350 VA unit for the location with the mini and a 17 inch monitor and 550 VA units for the G4 tower sites with 19 inch LCD monitors.


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## Apple101 (Jan 22, 2006)

krs said:


> Apple 101 -
> 
> I checked out their Canadian retailers.
> The only one on the list I deal with is Compusmart. I don't recall ever seeing a tripp lite in the stores I went to in Toronto and Montreal.
> ...


That is definitely too low. Are you sure you selected the right options such as PCI slots, etc??? Because I know when I was helping a friend select one for his G5 PowerMac his number was much higher. If you like you can PM me and ill help ya find the right one for ya. I think the company that I work for carries Tripp Lite. If you want I can look into it for you! I would be more then happy to help!


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

Thanks Apple 101, but I already have three Belkin units - that's all I need at this point.
I was just curious why I never even came across this make when I was looking for UPSs.
Is the software that comes with the Tripp Lite OS X compatible and does it provide USB connectivity, not the old PC serial port? I couldn't find any specific info on that. 

As to the UPS selection using the tripp Lite web page. There is something wrong there anyway. When I get to the end and click on the button to get the software to show me the selections, I get a message that I need to select the AC input voltage. I had it already selected...I deselected and reselected it a few times, also tried other input voltages...I just couldn't get past that point to get the software to select a UPS....aqll I got was that I was consuming 83 Watts of power - I think my 19 inch LCD uses that all by itself.

Well, doesn't really matter.


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## Deep Blue (Sep 16, 2005)

I have to say I had also never heard of Triplite as a brand either. I just bought two APC units on the recommendation of an Apple repair outfit here in Vancouver. I've only recently put them into service ( two months) so no real chance yet to assess their relative merits. Also, despite their warranty claims, I'm sure I won't have a snowball's chance in hell of ever seeing money from them if things go bang in the night.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

Apple101 said:


> I am extremely surprised that no one has heard of Tripp Lite
> 
> They make one of the worlds best power protection products, infact they were the first to come out with the UPS and surge suppressor. As a testament to Tripp Lite quality the UPS model that I use is used in hospitals worldwide. You pay more for their product but its well worth it. And with the article that I posted earlier in this thread that briefly discusses why Tripp Lite surge protection and UPS systems are better then all the other brands just makes my point even stronger.
> 
> ...


You've got to be joking!? Sentinel Power is a *distributor* for TrippLite and the article that you linked to makes no comparison to other brands such as APC or Belkin.

For what it's worth, I've heard of all three brands and I'll stick with APC. I've been through at least three APC products, none have failed me yet and I've yet to hear a knock against them.


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## Apple101 (Jan 22, 2006)

krs said:


> Thanks Apple 101, but I already have three Belkin units - that's all I need at this point.
> I was just curious why I never even came across this make when I was looking for UPSs.
> Is the software that comes with the Tripp Lite OS X compatible and does it provide USB connectivity, not the old PC serial port? I couldn't find any specific info on that.
> 
> ...


Hey that’s no problem!! Tripp Lite is one of the best that’s why I am VERY surprised you never came across that brand. Also their UPS systems such as mine the Omni Smart 500 is USB and Mac compatible. Also I needed to use FireFox in order to use the UPS application selection.





IronMac said:


> You've got to be joking!? Sentinel Power is a *distributor* for TrippLite and the article that you linked to makes no comparison to other brands such as APC or Belkin.
> 
> For what it's worth, I've heard of all three brands and I'll stick with APC. I've been through at least three APC products, none have failed me yet and I've yet to hear a knock against them.


Actually if you would read the article it does actually make comparisons to other brands. Did you see the diagram??? Also Quote “Unfortunately some companies may inflate their joule ratings without adding any extra protection circuitry to their products! In general, 200 joules will give you basic protection, 400 joules provide good protection and anything with over 600 joules can be considered exceptional. Tripp Lite surge suppressors boast ratings of up to 1500 joules - and have the advanced circuitry to back them up!” 

That sounds like a comparison to me. All other brands means just THAT all other brands. Do I really need to help you read the article??
And I am proud of the fact that you are going to stick with APC, although should something ever go wrong good luck trying to collect


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

Apple101 said:


> Hey that’s no problem!! Tripp Lite is one of the best that’s why I am VERY surprised you never came across that brand. Also their UPS systems such as mine the Omni Smart 500 is USB and Mac compatible. Also I needed to use FireFox in order to use the UPS application selection.


I'm surprised that their UPS application doesn't work with Safari. It actually seems to give wrong answers. I guess they are not Mac compatible when it comes to browsers.



> Actually if you would read the article it does actually make comparisons to other brands. Did you see the diagram??? Also Quote “Unfortunately some companies may inflate their joule ratings without adding any extra protection circuitry to their products! In general, 200 joules will give you basic protection, 400 joules provide good protection and anything with over 600 joules can be considered exceptional. Tripp Lite surge suppressors boast ratings of up to 1500 joules - and have the advanced circuitry to back them up!”
> 
> That sounds like a comparison to me. All other brands means just THAT all other brands. Do I really need to help you read the article??
> And I am proud of the fact that you are going to stick with APC, although should something ever go wrong good luck trying to collect


I found that article very poor as well. 
Lots of marketing fluff and short on technical facts. Reads as if someone wrote it who just completed a Marketing 101 course.

Take the quote above as an example - It first of all suggests that "other" manufacturers are not honest about their ratings and then implies that Tripp Lite surge suppressors "boast" (a typical marketing fluff term) ratings of 1500 joules whereas the competition only has 200, 400 or 600 joule ratings.
All this is actually only implied.
Trouble is that the first two Tripp Lite units I just looked at, the BC350 and the BCPERS300, the ones I would use with a Mini and 17" LCD, only have ratings of 380 and 400 joules respectively, pretty much identical to the competition.

I know, it says *up to* 1500 joules.......just confirms my point that the technical information in that article is meaningless.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

Apple101 said:


> Actually if you would read the article it does actually make comparisons to other brands. Did you see the diagram??? Also Quote “Unfortunately some companies may inflate their joule ratings without adding any extra protection circuitry to their products! In general, 200 joules will give you basic protection, 400 joules provide good protection and anything with over 600 joules can be considered exceptional. Tripp Lite surge suppressors boast ratings of up to 1500 joules - and have the advanced circuitry to back them up!”
> 
> That sounds like a comparison to me. All other brands means just THAT all other brands. Do I really need to help you read the article??
> And I am proud of the fact that you are going to stick with APC, although should something ever go wrong good luck trying to collect


First of all, the article is from a company that sells Tripp Lite products so they can hardly be seen to be unbiased.
Second, I doubt very much that any reviewer (even CNET or PCWorld) would be able to review surge suppressor products from all over the world. If you go to TigerDirect, there are at least a dozen surge suppressor suppliers.
Third, you don't have any evidence on how difficult or not it is to collect on any one company's warranties.

Finally, if you want to go war with me over this, you'd be well-advised to be better armed.


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## Apple101 (Jan 22, 2006)

krs said:


> Take the quote above as an example - It first of all suggests that "other" manufacturers are not honest about their ratings and then implies that Tripp Lite surge suppressors "boast" (a typical marketing fluff term) ratings of 1500 joules whereas the competition only has 200, 400 or 600 joule ratings.
> All this is actually only implied.
> Trouble is that the first two Tripp Lite units I just looked at, the BC350 and the BCPERS300, the ones I would use with a Mini and 17" LCD, only have ratings of 380 and 400 joules respectively, pretty much identical to the competition.


Yes but the difference is Tripp Lites products have the circuitry to back up their ratings. Also knowing someone who knows exactly how these products work I can safely say there are a number of differences inside that differentiate a Tripp Lite from a regular UPS or surge suppressor that the average Joe would not see.

Also another high end UPS brand is Liebert (Emerson) I can almost guarantee nobody here has heard of that brand as well.

Now in order to prevent any huge problems on this thread I am going to sum everything up like this:

Get the best you can possibly get within your budget that you have set, and make SURE that you select the model that BEST suits your needs, never get one that is under powered, or doesn’t have enough capacity. Also everyone has their own brand preference, and as such from what I and other people have demonstrated they stand by their brand and so really in a thread like this all you can do is recommend and hope that the person who is asking for advice will make the right decision. Lastly there is an old saying you don’t f*ck around you buy around  

So to IronMac and everyone else if I have offended anyone, or pissed anyone off in anyway I would like to apologize


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## cdnbacon (Feb 26, 2001)

A very high end surge suppressor that I specify on all my AV projects are the ones made by Surgex. It's the one of the only ones out there that has a A-1-1 rating, which is the highest rating in the industry. I have yet to have a failure due to a power surge, and I have these in place in some of the most thunderstorm prone areas in the USA protecting very expensive audio-visual systems. For mission critical systems where downtime is not acceptable, I combine the surge protection of the Surgex along with a UPS from Tripp-lite. http://www.surgex.com/

They are very spendy, the cheapest one is several hundred dollars!

Surgex uses a different method for surge protection, instead of using destructive MOV's that degrade after being hit by surges, it uses series mode protection that is non-destructive. Which brings up a very important point: replace MOV based surge protectors after a major surge event, and perhaps once every year or two or three depending on how dirty your power is!

I will say that warranties covering equipment connected to surge protectors is nothing more than a marketing gimmick, if you read the fine print there are plenty of loop holes that absolves the manufacturer of any responsibility for your fried computer!!!


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## Apple101 (Jan 22, 2006)

cdnbacon said:


> A very high end surge suppressor that I specify on all my AV projects are the ones made by Surgex. It's the one of the only ones out there that has a A-1-1 rating, which is the highest rating in the industry. I have yet to have a failure due to a power surge, and I have these in place in some of the most thunderstorm prone areas in the USA protecting very expensive audio-visual systems. For mission critical systems where downtime is not acceptable, I combine the surge protection of the Surgex along with a UPS from Tripp-lite. http://www.surgex.com/
> 
> They are very spendy, the cheapest one is several hundred dollars!
> 
> Surgex uses a different method for surge protection, instead of using destructive MOV's that degrade after being hit by surges, it uses series mode protection that is non-destructive. Which brings up a very important point: replace MOV based surge protectors after a major surge event, and perhaps once every year or two or three depending on how dirty your power is!


This is interesting. I wonder what their products use since they don’t use metal oxide varisitors or other components to absorb surges?? I also have to agree with cdnbacon if your surge suppression unit that uses such components is ever compromised it should be replaced as the cheap ones don’t have safety features built in that disconnect the main utility power to prevent any damage to your equipment should the unit ever get compromised. Another important note is your surge suppressor should have a diagnostic indication system that gives you the status of your unit and the power.

Edit:: In some cases some businesses or consumers will receive an insurance discount if their hardware is plugged into a Tripp Lite unit such as the ISOBAR. I would also like to note that the Tripp Lite ISOBAR is the benchmark by which all other surge suppressors are measured. It is America's Corporate Standard In Surge Suppression.


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## psxp (May 23, 2006)

*Apc Ups*

I have a UPS that will last about 10-12mins made my APC. It saved me last monday night when we had a power outage.. I was in the middle of coping files from my external drive when the power went out. I was able to complete the operation then shut down the computer safely. 

B


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## cdnbacon (Feb 26, 2001)

Apple101 said:


> This is interesting. I wonder what their products use since they don’t use metal oxide varisitors or other components to absorb surges??


Here's an article describing the differences between surge protections technologies, written by Neil Muncy, perhaps one of the most respected authorities on technical power and grounding worldwide:
http://www.surgex.com/library/11001.html



Apple101 said:


> I also have to agree with cdnbacon if your surge suppression unit that uses such components is ever compromised it should be replaced as the cheap ones don’t have safety features built in that disconnect the main utility power to prevent any damage to your equipment should the unit ever get compromised. Another important note is your surge suppressor should have a diagnostic indication system that gives you the status of your unit and the power.


I would say be careful! Even with the protection features built into surge suppressors, note that degradation of MOV's is *accumulative* so you could possibly be one surge away from equipment damage, even though the indicator lights tell you everything is fine! Those indictor circuits only light up when you experience an open circuit across the MOV, which is too late to prevent damage from happening in my books!



Apple101 said:


> Edit:: In some cases some businesses or consumers will receive an insurance discount if their hardware is plugged into a Tripp Lite unit such as the ISOBAR. I would also like to note that the Tripp Lite ISOBAR is the benchmark by which all other surge suppressors are measured. It is America's Corporate Standard In Surge Suppression.


 Actually there is only one independant standard by which surge protection is evaluated, and that is Underwriters Laboratories (UL) 1449–2 which is based on IEEE/ANSI C62.41-1991.


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## Apple101 (Jan 22, 2006)

cdnbacon said:


> Here's an article describing the differences between surge protections technologies, written by Neil Muncy, perhaps one of the most respected authorities on technical power and grounding worldwide:
> http://www.surgex.com/library/11001.html


Now that is NEAT STUFF!  



cdnbacon said:


> I would say be careful! Even with the protection features built into surge suppressors, note that degradation of MOV's is *accumulative* so you could possibly be one surge away from equipment damage, even though the indicator lights tell you everything is fine! Those indictor circuits only light up when you experience an open circuit across the MOV, which is too late to prevent damage from happening in my books!


Good point. But that is why I really like the Tripp Lite units because they offer a backup system if you will in the event that the circuitry becomes severely destroyed or compromised. I know the Tripp Lite units will also should a catastrophic even occur their units by design will immediately disconnect main utility power to prevent damage to the connected equipment.

I am sure Tripp Lite has thought about everything that could possibly go wrong. After all they did invent the surge suppressor and UPS system.  




cdnbacon said:


> Actually there is only one independant standard by which surge protection is evaluated, and that is Underwriters Laboratories (UL) 1449–2 which is based on IEEE/ANSI C62.41-1991.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

First off, apology accepted, Apple101.

Second, some good info passed around on this thread, especially w/ respect to MOV circuitry. I've got a 14-year old surge suppressor that's now just a fancy powerbar. :lmao:


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## Apple101 (Jan 22, 2006)

IronMac said:


> First off, apology accepted, Apple101.


    



IronMac said:


> I've got a 14-year old surge suppressor that's now just a fancy powerbar. :lmao:


:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: That’s awesome!! :lmao: :lmao:


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## cdnbacon (Feb 26, 2001)

I will add that Surgex has a really cool demo rig that they take with them to trade shows. They have this "surge" generator that creates a 4,000 volt spike on a regular 120 volt power circuit once every 90 seconds. This branches off to two different destinations from a common power multi-outlet strip:

1. First a Surgex surge protector, which is protecting a old Mac Plus (you read correctly). This is the same surgex surge protector and Mac Plus combination that they have used at all the trades shows that they have been at for the past decade (they emphasize that this combination receives a 4000 volt spike every 90 seconds, for the two or three days of trade show duration, well in excess of a typical lifetime of surges one might experience otherwise).

2. Second, a custom plug-in rig that consists of a glass baby food jar, with a set of test clips mounted in the cap attached to a U-Ground plug. To these test clips they attach a MOV like the ones you find in a typical surge protector! They bring along a boxful of MOV's to each trade show.

Of course with just one 4000 volt surge, the poor MOV explodes into a thousand little pieces, with accompanying flash of light and plume of smoke! All the while, the Surgex protected Mac just purrs along just fine!


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## Apple101 (Jan 22, 2006)

cdnbacon said:


> I will add that Surgex has a really cool demo rig that they take with them to trade shows. They have this "surge" generator that creates a 4,000 volt spike on a regular 120 volt power circuit once every 90 seconds. This branches off to two different destinations from a common power multi-outlet strip:
> 
> 1. First a Surgex surge protector, which is protecting a old Mac Plus (you read correctly). This is the same surgex surge protector and Mac Plus combination that they have used at all the trades shows that they have been at for the past decade (they emphasize that this combination receives a 4000 volt spike every 90 seconds, for the two or three days of trade show duration, well in excess of a typical lifetime of surges one might experience otherwise).
> 
> ...


:lmao: thats cool :clap: 

Im sure after a direct lightening strike however like any other high end surge suppressor the Mac wouldn’t be running  It would be safe and protected mind you but the utility power would be disconnected 

Sooo cdnbacon how’s this to sum it all up:

Surge suppressors: SurgeX and Tripp Lite ISOBAR

UPS Systems: Tripp Lite


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## cdnbacon (Feb 26, 2001)

Apple101 said:


> :lmao: thats cool :clap:
> 
> Im sure after a direct lightening strike however like any other high end surge suppressor the Mac wouldn’t be running  It would be safe and protected mind you but the utility power would be disconnected
> 
> ...


Heh, I make it a point to unplug all my electronic items should it be a very wicked electrical storm overhead, despite having the surgex there to protect things. With a million volts+ per bolt of lightining, nothing on this planet can stop such a freight train if you get a direct hit on your house (though with a decent lightning arrest system, most of it will follow the shortest path to ground)! 

I think you summed up the options very well. I have the utmost of respect for Tripp Lite, used them plenty of times in the past, still have an isobar on one of my old TV's!


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## Apple101 (Jan 22, 2006)

cdnbacon said:


> Heh, I make it a point to unplug all my electronic items should it be a very wicked electrical storm overhead, despite having the surgex there to protect things. With a million volts+ per bolt of lightining, nothing on this planet can stop such a freight train if you get a direct hit on your house (though with a decent lightning arrest system, most of it will follow the shortest path to ground)!


Hey thats why we have insurance right?   



cdnbacon said:


> I think you summed up the options very well. I have the utmost of respect for Tripp Lite, used them plenty of times in the past, still have an isobar on one of my old TV's!


:clap:


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## Deep Blue (Sep 16, 2005)

Nice thread, guys. Good debate and not a pissing match.


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