# Do I need Apple TV?



## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

Morning All,

I have been searching ehMac and Googlin' and think Apple TV would be more a fun toy to have but since it really isn't that expensive could be a fun buy. I wanted to clarify a few points as I am not up to speed on the technical video mumbo jumbo.

Apple TV will allow me to stream music from my iTunes via wireless, or hardwire. Good excuse to get Time Capsule as well! 

Apple TV will allow me to play 1080i/p, 5.1 sound using my receiver with optical audio input.

I can rent movies including HD feeds, tv show if I buy a US iTunes gift card.

No internet browser, but i connect directly to YouTube, Flikr, and .Mac to view pics and video.

Is there a fear wireless keyboard / mouse support will be added to a new hardware version?

I am hoping the house selling gods will be good and I will be able to buy a plasma tv; any fear of burn in?

Anything I missed?


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

I don't want to get flamed but, to be frank I don't see the point of AppleTV. It represents what is going wrong with Apple - closed systems. I say forget the AppleTV and get a nice Mini instead - at least then you get an OS.


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

I went to Apple.com and tracked down the specs....I don't see how 1080i/p is acheived. The maximum resolutions (even HD feeds from iTunes) are only 720. Still nice as 1080i/p is still growing.

The post I looked at flipped between a Mac Mini and Apple TV and I suspect that with the Mini 1080i/p can be achieved but not with Apple TV.

Can anyone confirm?


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## cap10subtext (Oct 13, 2005)

When I watched the keynote I was left with the distinct impression that the HD movies you could rent from iTunes were 720p, not 1080p. Photos and stuff show up at a max of 1280 by 720. Seems to be consistent with what's on the website.


> Video
> Video formats supported:
> H.264 and protected H.264 (from iTunes Store):
> • up to 5 Mbps, Progressive Main Profile (CAVLC) with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps (maximum resolution 1280x720 @ 24fps, 960x540 @ 30fps) in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats
> ...


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

I agree. I think Apple TVs are kind of a waste. My buddy has one, and he barely uses it. If you want to watch movies on your tv from your computer then just wire it through the walls and into an input on your tv and configure the settings on your mac. Thats what I do. I spent 60 bucks on Cable and thats it.


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## Rukus (Aug 10, 2007)

You have most of that correct. The Apple TV will output 1080i if it's connected to your TV with the HDMI cable, but it will not support 1080P. This really isn't a big deal since the ONLY 1080P sources availbale right now are Blu-ray disks or HD-DVD's. Even the HD channels from your TV provider are 1080i not 1080P. 
Also regarding your question about audio, if you connect the apple TV to your receiver with the optical connection you will get surround sound but it's NOT dobly digital 5.1, it's actually dolby pro logic surround. If you unclear on the difference then google it bacause I don't want to get into that here. This is because the apple TV and itunes like their movies to be in the MP4 format with AAC audio and this format will not support true 5.1 dolby digital.

Hope that helps. On a side note I just got my Refurb Apple TV for $209.00 and I love it. Yes the divice has limited functions compared to going the Mac mini route. but what it does do is exactly what I wanted it for so for me it's the perfect solution.


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## ZRXer (Jan 18, 2007)

I too have an AppleTV - we really appreciate it for two big reasons. First, we have over 10000 digital pix, and often prepare slide shows for events like family birthdays, anniversaries, etc. Having people gather around the iMac is just not the same as having the slideshows playing on a plasma - everyone loves the slideshows presented this way. Same goes if you're doing a travel slideshow and people want to relax while looking at the pix - you're already in a room where there is a TV, and it's likely to make presenting these things more comfortable and easier. 

Secondly, we have ripped all our kids' movies onto the AppleTV - the simple remote and the fact that they can just scroll down the list of their movies makes keeping DVD clutter and damage to an absolute minimum. They just turn it on, find their movie in the list, and watch it. Perfect solution for them. 

We also enjoy the Youtube thing with friends - I never liked Youtube and couldnt' have cared less about it in the past, but somehow when you can search and watch things on your TV with family and friends, you can easily waste an hour or two laughing...

I wouldn't disagree with those people saying AppleTVs are a waste of money - you just have to determine if it's what you want. The interface alone is worth it to us - it's a great solution and does exactly what we ask of it. When movie rentals and purchases arrive, it will just be that much better.


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## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

Technical issues aside...

Need it? - No

But you know you want it.


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

Rukus said:


> The Apple TV will output 1080i if it's connected to your TV with the HDMI cable...


Not that I don't believe this statement but I have not seen any references to this from an official source. I have seen 720 HD but not 1080i...anyone seen something on Apple.ca/.com?


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## harpoon (Sep 7, 2006)

you don't really want anything i, p is always better. 720p>1080i, especially if the content moves a fair bit.

I'm (STILL) torn between Apple TV and a Mac Mini for my TV, the main factors being cost difference and the time for Handbraking my DVDs versus just ripping them.

You kinda have to feed the Apple TV what it wants, how it wants it from what I've gathered (unless you really get in there and hack away) whereas with a Mini you can McGyver it a bit more, if you get what I mean.


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## Rukus (Aug 10, 2007)

harpoon said:


> you don't really want anything i, p is always better. 720p>1080i, especially if the content moves a fair bit.


Your right, 720P is a HIGHER resolution than 1080i. The apple TV states that is is capable of resolutions up to 720P therefore it is also capable of 1080i if that is the format of the content it is given. You and I are saying the same thing, just in different words.


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## mbaldwin (Jan 20, 2003)

A friend of mine got an AppleTV right after they were introduced and liked it. I finally got my own (at his recommendation) in December. I quite like it - despite the limitations.

The wife actually likes it a lot more than me. She loves how it extends music from my huge iTunes library into our living room. Plus I have encoded a lot of video for her to watch as well (mostly TV from the UK that we cannot get here) using iSquint and HandBrake.

With respect to rip times: HandBrake is a bit tedious. But if you have video files that you want to convert to use on the AppleTV, iSquint is fantastic since you can queue up a bunch of them and just let it go. Regardless, my intel iMac rips/encodes very quickly. One hour takes 20-40 minutes, depending on the encode options I choose.

I also toyed with buying a mini. But the price is MUCH higher and the "just works" factor is so much lower. The AppleTV has strength in its simplicity. At least for us. It does what we wanted and does it well.


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## RISCHead (Jul 20, 2004)

RunTheWorldOnMac said:


> Morning All,
> 
> Is there a fear wireless keyboard / mouse support will be added to a new hardware version?
> 
> ...


To answer your questions 
1. No fear about keyboards - Apple doesn't intent the ATV to be used as a computer.
2. New generation plasmas are pretty good at avoiding burn-in and the ATV has screen savers like most good HD sources.

Misc things:

3. ATV update isn't available yet, so can't comment on ATV Take 2 functionality. 
4. It does get hot - you could easily fry an egg - make sure there's enough room for ventilation.
5. Power off is painful.
6. Get the bigger drive if possible if you have a lot of content.


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## Guest (Feb 8, 2008)

I had this dilemma a while back, and after long deliberations I went with a Mac Mini and am happy that I did. There's very little I can't do with my mini (aside from renting from iTMS, which at this point in the game is not a concern for me).

Each to their own needs, in the end I just couldn't face the fact of buying a device vs. a full functional machine, and I wanted to be able to surf, check email, IM, rip dvd's with it, etc. I've even setup a few scripts to simplify ripping all my DVD's to hard drive with the option of also handbraking for ipod when completed


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

Thanks guys! I understand the 720p vs 1080i...not the most knowledgeable with vide terms.


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## cchaynes (Oct 25, 2007)

visual hub rocks, dump a video file on it and it is coded perfectly for apple tv and added to itunes automatically...


the apple tv is better, it slick and painless and 1/3 the cost of a mac mini, it does a great job at what it is intended to do, if you want a computer in your livingroom, buy a computer


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

RunTheWorldOnMac said:


> Apple TV will allow me to stream music from my iTunes via wireless, or hardwire. Good excuse to get Time Capsule as well!


True.



> Apple TV will allow me to play 1080i/p, 5.1 sound using my receiver with optical audio input.


False. Apple TV supports up to 720p at this time.



> I can rent movies including HD feeds, tv show if I buy a US iTunes gift card.


True, and movie rental is promised to Canada "later this year."



> No internet browser, but i connect directly to YouTube, Flikr, and .Mac to view pics and video.


I can't remember about Flickr, but otherwise True.



> Is there a fear wireless keyboard / mouse support will be added to a new hardware version?


False.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

RISCHead said:


> 5. Power off is painful.


How is holding down the "play" button on the Apple Remote "painful"?

That's how you power off an Apple TV.


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## RISCHead (Jul 20, 2004)

still painful  I will occasionally find it hasn't turned off cause I didn't hold it down long enough - whatever - given the five other remotes I have to deal with, this is the most irritating to me to turn off. 
My issue, my use case, my statement - take it or leave it - don't try to make me change my mind about it


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## cchaynes (Oct 25, 2007)

the power on / off is brutal

try to get it working with a universal remote!

why would apple write such a long IR command?

oh right it cool to have no buttons...


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

mguertin said:


> Each to their own needs, in the end I just couldn't face the fact of buying a device vs. a full functional machine, and I wanted to be able to surf, check email, IM, rip dvd's with it, etc.


I had the same quandary as mguertin, but my dear wife put it plainly to me:

If you want to do computer stuff (surf, check email, IM, rip dvd's), do it on the computer.

If you want to watch TV shows, videos, our home movies and listen to our music, do it on the TV.

I love iTunes. It is an (almost) perfect media server and the AppleTV is the front end to that system. It does what it was designed to do, beautifully.


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## harpoon (Sep 7, 2006)

I'm going to wait for Take 2 to get released before I take a plunge, but a couple of (admittedly daft basic) questions, iTunes related:

- I'm assuming you have to sync your movies with iTunes for the Apple TV to see it of course...do the movies have to be on the same drive as the music is?

- can you have movie posters, a synopsis etc tagged onto the movies in iTunes and have that information available on the Apple TV?


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

I don't presently own an Apple TV, I had one before the move and foolishly got rid of it (it was the 40GB model).

All I can say is that during the time I owned it, it was a joy to use. It really made our photos come alive, and it was a very popular item when I would load it up with weird/bad videos and bring it over to friends' houses. I never felt the 40GB was that confining because it's more than enough for hours upon hours of stuff, but at home I only copied my photo library onto it, the rest I streamed.

It always did exactly what I wanted, when I wanted. I think it's a great and VERY underrated device, and I'll be getting another one as soon as movie rentals are available in Canada (even though I have a US account and could be taking advantage of that now).


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

AppleTV works great for me. I use it quite extensively like a TiVo (which I've still never seen in Canada yet) by using an Elgado EyeTV Hybrid device (dongle, really) which connects the cable to the iMac. The EyeTV records at a higher resolution but can dither down to iTunes specs very easily (it takes a while though--I let the computer do it at night usually). I'd like to get the Elgado Turbo Accelerator 264 for this process to speed it up. Never even touch the VCR anymore, really. 

I find the 40 GB model to have plenty of room. I've been recording TV programs, podcasts, photos, music, whatever into it since last May and I've still got room left. There's about 20 House episodes alone stored in there right now. Another cool thing about TV is the YouTube connection as well as Podcasts. Check out Mr. Deity sometime. And it all works as easily as an iPod.

And in answer to an earlier question, it syncs to one computer but can stream content from up to five more. Way cool.


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## RISCHead (Jul 20, 2004)

Tivo is now available in Canada, but no HD.
As a television/cable/PVR appliance, the AppleTV is a lot of work, compared to Tivo or your cable providers PVR.
As a appliance that brings your iLife content to your television and home entertainment system, it works very well.
As a movie rental appliance, it will likely surpass your cable providers PPV/VoD solution simply on content and ease of use.
As has been said, it will stream content from upto 5 computers.

All said and done for many folks this has been a $200 toy - that's fine  , but you have to decide if its for you.


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

RISCHead said:


> As has been said, it will stream content from upto 5 computers.


Do you happen to know if it does standards based UPnP?

Does anyone KNOW if Time Capsule does UPnP?


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## gtgt (Jul 19, 2005)

Hi Guys,
I have 2 atv's.
I have hacked both to do everything I want.
It just shows up on any mac on my network like a hard drive.
It is hacked to play almost any format (haven't come across any it cant play yet).
It uses mplayer or quicktime to play video.
Just drag a file from any computer on the network to it and it copies it to the atv. No need to convert files to itunes.
It still has youtube (awesome by the way) and you can also attach any size usb hard drive to it for additional storage.
Amazing.
I used to have a mac mini hooked up to the plasma but it was such a headache to set up as it would never get the correct resolution and I would have to use vnc to correct it.
Also, it could never get the proper res. - always overscanned so you couldn't see the menu at the top.
There was a way of fixing by playing with the default resolutions on the mini but it never work properly.
Anyways, nothing beats the hacked atv for simplicity and usefulness.
BTW, $199 this week at SiG. What a steal!
SIG Electronics, Apple Hardware, Apple TV 40GB (P/N:MA711LL/A)


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## gtgt (Jul 19, 2005)

RunTheWorldOnMac said:


> Not that I don't believe this statement but I have not seen any references to this from an official source. I have seen 720 HD but not 1080i...anyone seen something on Apple.ca/.com?


it is 1080i on my plasma through hdmi.


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

Apple TV gets my vote.

I got one last July and haven't regretted it. The only complaint was the networking was painfully slow, so I just managed to hardwire the Apple TV and now works great. I love the fact that our photos are on the TV instead of huddling around the laptop. I like it that I can stream my iTunes Library and listen to my music upstairs.

If you want, you can hack it to put OS X on it, a wireless keyboard and lots of other stuff.

All in all I love my Apple TV.


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## harpoon (Sep 7, 2006)

hey gtgt, you got me thinking TV could be my ticket with some hackery, especially if VIDEO_TS jives with it. I'll look into what's out there for TV hacks and see where it gets me...plasmas and Mac Minis can be a headache and I gotta keep my setup's WAF nice and high as well.

Thanks, I'm 50/50 on picking now but leaning toward the TV after thinking it over this weekend, and running some h.264 tests.




gtgt said:


> Hi Guys,
> I have 2 atv's.
> I have hacked both to do everything I want.
> It just shows up on any mac on my network like a hard drive.
> ...


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## CaptainCode (Jun 4, 2006)

Rukus said:


> Also regarding your question about audio, if you connect the apple TV to your receiver with the optical connection you will get surround sound but it's NOT dobly digital 5.1, it's actually dolby pro logic surround. If you unclear on the difference then google it bacause I don't want to get into that here. This is because the apple TV and itunes like their movies to be in the MP4 format with AAC audio and this format will not support true 5.1 dolby digital.


That's not entirely correct, at least not now. I'm not sure what the specs of the original Apple TV were but the software just released supports Dolby Digital 5.1 PASSTHROUGH meaning it'll just send it out the optical port hoping your receiver can decode it which it should be able to if it's any good. 

You can check it out here Apple - Apple TV - Tech Specs under the audio specs.

This article is old but seems to say it's possible with the original Apple TV although not exactly easy Ten Myths of the Apple TV: 5.1 Audio


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

Question: is it possible (yet) to run Keynote on AppleTV? The unit is fully portable and I have a component>VGA cable to hook it up to any projector. I notice in iTunes that it appears to be able to function as a hard drive, just like an iPod. I can create a pseudo Keynote/Powerpoint presentation using the photo slideshow function, but I'm wondering if I can do it directly with the iLife program instead. 

Any ideas? BTW, it works GREAT as a portable photo/music/video hard drive with UBER-COOL interface. The photos floating by screen saver is enough to turn heads all by itself.

Frank


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Keynote is not "natively" supported on the Apple TV. You can export your keynote presentation as a movie or iphoto slideshow and present it, but of course you lose a lot of what you wanted by making it a keynote presentation.

You should send feedback to Apple entreating them to add Keynote (and oh, what the heck, PowerPoint) display support to Apple TV.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

Good idea, Chas. By the way, I just downloaded the Apple TV update and it is swee-eet! Kicks arse! The searching is organized a little differently but now you can access TV networks, movies, TV shows and podcasts right from the couch. And the podcasts are, of course, free as always. I didn't see any setup fpr rental yet, just purchase, but what-the-hey; it's still evolving much faster than anything that Microsoft (or the rest of the industy) has come up with yet. Sweet little presentation machine, if you have the right cables.

Frank


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