# My Copy Of Leopard Is Crap!



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

This is the worst experience I have had in twenty years of using Macs.

Usually an upgrade just hums along and all is well.

Not so in my case. After the upgrade Leopard appeared and ran about 1/10 the speed of Tiger with nothing but beachballs no matter what I did.

Tried to repair permissions, no go. Try after try. Then I waited and finally after seven loooong minutes it worked but gave me this error code:

Repairing permissions for “Macintosh HD”

Warning: SUID file "System/Library/CoreServices/RemoteManagement/ARDAgent.app/Contents/MacOS/ARDAgent" has been modified and will not be repaired.

Permissions repair complete

It knocked my Keychain all to hell and every time I made a move, I had to type my password to get past the request window. It told me none of my certificates were trusted and there was no way I could alter them.

So I said to hell with it and moved my important files to my external. I couldn't be bothered to do a new back up as it would take more time than I wanted to spend and I have everything I need backed up in Tiger anyway,

So then I did an erase and install, figuring I would have a nice clean system and I could simply bring my files back and start fresh.

When the second install was done, the first thing I did was go to mail.app and set up my four e-mail accounts, which I have done numerous times.

Much to my surprise, when I set up the first account, it took nearly 10 minutes to verify it for both incoming and outgoing server info. 

What's with that?

Then I noticed "it".

You know the tiny wheel that spins when mail is going to the server to get mail? Well I had one right in the middle of the column of mail boxes below the one box I had created, spinning merrily away.

Nothing I could do would get rid of that tiny spinning wheel. So I think, I know, I'll repair permissions. Well not in Leopard I can't. Not from the HD or the Disk. And every single file or app I tried runs so slow you would think I had a Blueberry iMac instead of a first gen 1.83 Ghz MBP with an 80 G HD and 2 G RAM.

What's with that?

In frustration I am on my second erase and install and awaiting it to finish to see if this time something decent happens.

So far Leopard is a piece of you know what.


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## Atroz (Aug 7, 2005)

Any chance you've had Spotlight running in the background indexing each time you had these problems? That would slow your machine down a lot. Perhaps also cause file locking that would upset your attempts to fix the disk. 

I also had a lot of problems with my Email remembering my passwords. I'm not sure what I did to fix it, either it was when I went in to the keychain editor and removed all the existing related keys or it was because I changed my IMAP server from a mdns name to the related IP address. I think what was happening was that Leopard was defaulting to IPV6 addresses with mdns and my mail server wasn't accepting IMAP connections on the IPV6 stack. That then caused Mail to think that there was a problem and would prompt me for a password. Not sure though.


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## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

Sounds like a hardware issue to me. Bad network connection, bad RAM, bad disk, etc.

Your subject made me laugh - as if your copy of leopard is different than anyone else's.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Spotlight indexing is a bear - eats processors.

TH eonly issue we've seen is if a keychain is old and does not have the .keychain at the end of it.
Happened to me.


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## jdurston (Jan 28, 2005)

Wow, I was thinking the opposite. My leopard screams (in Mail and Safari at least).
I recommend doing an archive and install if you can't justify wiping your drive.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I wiped my drive and mail still will not work, nor will Disk Utilities to repair permissions.

On top of that the Disk Utility now thinks the Leopard install DVD is still in the drive as it shows up as a DVD icon with this:

MAT****A DVD - R - UJ - 857

I can assure you the DVD is back in its fancy box.

Grrrrrrrrrrrr


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

You're not alone on the ARDAgent error, SINC. MacRumors report 

Have you restarted and reset PRAM yet?


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Reset the PRAM - it's got itself in a tangle.

You might even need to reset open firmware ( Command Option O F then type reset-all.

The only other possibility might be a bad drive ( we've seen a few )/

Try installing on an external.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

MacDoc said:


> You might even need to reset open firmware ( Command Option O F then type reset-all.


Intel-based units have EFI (Extensible Firmware Interface), not Open Firmware. You will find holding down those keys above as quoted on an Intel-based Mac will not do much for you.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Yeah, I reset the PRAM and those other keys did nothing.

Still no mail, no repair permissions, and slow as can be.

Like I said, it's crap.


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## DoNotPokeTheScreen (Jun 9, 2005)

A while ago my girlfriend's MacBook exhibited identical issues and it turned out to be a failing hard disk. Everything ran eeeexxxxxxxxtreeeeeeemmmeeelyy slooooow and at that point I couldn't even go through the back-up process for her, thus losing all of her precious photos with her departed pets.

The interesting thing is that it was the wake up process that pushed the hard disk over the edge, as it was running perfectly normal before it went to sleep. Perhaps the Leopard install pushed your MBP's hard disk over the edge.


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## Deep Blue (Sep 16, 2005)

It sounds unusual that a hard drive would suddenly crap out right after an OS update. It must be OS related.

To rule out HD failure though perhaps download Smart Reporter which is an HD diagnostics tool and see what it comes up with:

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/system_disk_utilities/smartreporter.html

I'm rarely an early adopter on technology so I'm just sitting back and waiting to see how leopard pans out before I upgrade.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Smart Reporter shows the drive to be just fine, no problems at all.

I just finished installing Tiger back on the machine and it is blazing fast.

I am in the process of running software update with 11 updates to bring the machine back to 10.4.10.

For the record Disk Utility ran fine and made approximately 50 permission changes when I ran it.

When that is complete, I will try Leopard again, hopefully with better results.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Well, it's nearly 5:00 a.m. and after 16 hours of grief, Leopard is back on after upgrading after an erase and install of Tiger.

Much to my disappointment, after installing the two software updates, the Disk Utility still sees the install DVD even though it is not in the drive.

It also took 8 minutes to do a permissions repair.

Mail does work this time and the speed is no more than comparable to Tiger.

From my perspective, Leopard is crap.

If you own a first gen 1.83 MBP, stay the hell away from Leopard.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Just noticed that all mail "Date Viewed" reads "31-Dec-69".

What a colossal screw up is Leopard.


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## johnb1 (Aug 6, 2006)

*sorry to hear that *

again, sorry to hear that you've had a bad experience with your new cat.
all of being members of the Church of Apple(tm), I'm sure we all expect that anything that comes from the Mothership ought to be just great, with no problems what-so-ever, and this may be the case. However......occasionally there are problems, as it is with most things (and people), things that knock you on your butt
like with 10.4.10 and those usb ports. totally hosed my mom's usb ports. tried plugging in directly, and with a powered hub. no difference. Spend all day getting her back to 10.4.9 (and I do mean all day) after that (and a lot of tums) I've learned to sit back, grab a coffee (or 4) and wait for about a week to see what happens
and then...maybe. Have you tried the usual? DiskWarrior, TechTool, Onyx, etc, etc
I suppose it might help if you tried forums.apple.com or complaining to customer service ...well, not so much...however I have found that complaining, being persistent, but not rude, and a dash of politeness seems to work..then again
your mileage may vary
John B


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I haven't tried any of your suggestions. Onyx is still in beta for Leopard and none of my DW or TT will work with Leopard.

Why Disk Utility thinks the Leopard DVD is still in the drive is beyond me. This is what happens when I click on the DVD symbol:


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## sergeg1 (Sep 22, 2005)

I am sorry for your experiences with Leopard, hopefully it will be fixed somehow soon.

My experience so far has been good, installed Leopard last night, took 1.20hr, rebooted and VOILA!

Actually boots faster and also the whole system seems to run faster, apps launch faster i find, especially Camino and Safari when I go on web.

Only thing I didn't appreciate is that if I was using an app, even a small utility on Tiger that was not compatible with Leopard, it actually did away with them instead of putting them in a folder or somewhere so I can upgrade them: Leopard just deleted them. 

The only one that I was alerted to as being incompatible with Leopard and gave me the opportunity to upgrade was MenuCalendarClock iCal. The several other apps/utilities I was using are completely gone from my system and the only way I can know which they are so I can upgrade is to go into my backup drive and fiddle around in there.

Apart from that I am impressed with the ease of the install and the results.

I also remember several years ago when I was living in another less friendly world of Windows XP, and upgraded from Win98 to XP, I had a similar type experience as you SINC, and after spending nearly 20 hours with Microsoft Tech Specialists - they transferred me to a section for "Windows XP Architects" so bad was my problem, it all came down to that my hard drive was failing even though it was no apparent to some programs. As soon as I changed the hard drive, XP installed like a charm.

This may not be the best suggestion but worth considering: It may not be that Leopard itself is crap, but definitely something is up with your system which is causing this. Do you have any other machine you can install it on, even a friend's, or is it also possible that your Leopard disk is faulty somehow? These things can happen even in our perfect imaginary world...

There are thousands and thousands of people installing and running Leopard and there are a few, small number with some problem, so its not Leopard overall, and not necessarily "you", but perhaps something is up with the machine... just a thought.

Hopefully a solution will be found for you soon.


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## (( p g )) (Aug 17, 2002)

Sinc: Did you have a Griffin PowerMate installed? Apparently there's a driver in there that causing kernel panics.
See item 6 in this article...
Buyer's Guide: Ten Things You Should Know Before You Upgrade to Mac OS X Leopard

For the record, this is why I always prefer the archive and install route versus upgrading because you get a pristine OS with fresh drivers without losing your apps and data.


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## adagio (Aug 23, 2002)

SINC, I know you must be sick of installing.

Have you tried using Disk Utility and completely zeroing out your HD? I would strongly suggest that then try installing Leopard again. I know, more work.... but I think it's worth a try.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Do you have a 'spare' external drive? Install Leopard on that and boot from it. If that works fine, your MBP's hard drive is the problem. The external drive can be FireWire or USB2.


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## mrvedder (Mar 1, 2005)

SINC said:


> I haven't tried any of your suggestions. Onyx is still in beta for Leopard and none of my DW or TT will work with Leopard.
> 
> Why Disk Utility thinks the Leopard DVD is still in the drive is beyond me. This is what happens when I click on the DVD symbol:


SINC,

this is not a glitch at all. My Disk Utility shows both my DVD burner and my CD burner in the left box - it's not showing you Leopard in the drive...it's just showing you that the optical drive is there but empty.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

mrvedder is right, i think you're just confusing a drive with a volume.

For example, the "74.5 Toshiba MK8...." is your hard drive, "Macintosh HD" is the mounted volume.

Are you doing the upgrade or are you doing archive and install?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

PB, I first did an upgrade. When it would not work, I did an erase and install. When that did not work, I reinstalled Tiger, upgraded it with Software Update to 10.4.10 and then did an upgrade again which is where I am now.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

HowEver said:


> Do you have a 'spare' external drive?  Install Leopard on that and boot from it. If that works fine, your MBP's hard drive is the problem. The external drive can be FireWire or USB2.


I'm going to try that this morning, thanks However.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Forget that idea. My 250G is not partitioned and to do so would wipe it. Can't do that because all my back up is on it.

I'm now on the hunt for a new external HD.


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## zmttoxics (Oct 16, 2007)

Lol. Ya, you missed it completely. There is no disk in the drive. The image you posted just says "Waiting for disk to be inserted.", meaning, empty. 

If it really is there, it wouln't be hard to unmount it. Heres where that good old unix experiance comes in.
Run in a terminal:

df -h

Look for /dev/disk1 or something mounted as /Volumes/Leopard or something, then its as simple as running the command umount to get the system to stop using it / thinking its there.

umount /Volumes/Leopard

As for everything thing sucking, you can run the command " top " to see whats running and all of the resources they are sucking so you can find the program / service to elimate.

top

Any other awesome unix sys admin questions? I can't wait for my leopard to come in so I can compare experiences.


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## Akai (Sep 27, 2003)

Wow im sorry! That totally sucks.

I installed Leopard last night on my iMac using the upgrade option. I figured hey, i usually do a clean install but I was feeling a little lazy and would clean install my MacBook. Anyways it worked out so well (zero problems everything went incredibly smooth) that i just ended up doing an upgrade on my MacBook aswell, and once again.. no problems (well a minor one it seemed to clear my address book but that was easily fixed in seconds thanks to .Mac and Sync)

Im sorry to hear about all your troubles 

What size external do you need? Im really surprised the wipe and install didnt work.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

SINC said:


> PB, I first did an upgrade. When it would not work, I did an erase and install. When that did not work, I reinstalled Tiger, upgraded it with Software Update to 10.4.10 and then did an upgrade again which is where I am now.


If you do it over, try using the Archive and Install option (at the screen where you select what hard drive you want to install on, there is an "options" button at the bottom). 

That way it maintains all your user settings and whatnot, but gives you a whole new OS. It's like doing a clean install without having to erase the HDD. Makes for less hassle.

Either that, of just do a clean install of Leopard. Is there any reason you are installing Tiger first? You should have a full install DVD for Leopard, right? Or have I forgotten something from the start of this thread?


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

While everyone is happily upgrading to Leopard, well SINC not so happily, I'm trying to upgrade an eMac from 10.2.8 to Tiger with all sorts of problems.
I'll post some info an a request for help elsewhere, but for this problem, has nobody considered that the Leopard install disk may be defective?
Every once in a while one gets defective video/movie DVDs, why should that be different for a DVD with an OS install on it?


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

the liberals sent Sinc a 'special edition' dvd.


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## gwillikers (Jun 19, 2003)

krs said:


> While everyone is happily upgrading to Leopard, well SINC not so happily...


Not just SINC, check the Apple Discussions forum... lots of problems. I had major Mail problems, but have fixed them thanks to the aforementioned forum. Hours of tedious work trying to figure out why I couldn't send and only receive. There's bugs, and who thought there wouldn't be?
_- had to nuke all Mail accounts and start over using the Apple Mail Account creator (some might call it a wizard)
- the just released "Apple Login & Keychain Update 1.0" update may have helped
_
After getting Mail working (I just switched from Entourage) I'm now feeling positive about Leopard, and will likely commit entirely to it within the next few weeks (Logic Express is working fine). After that I'll just keep a small Tiger volume hanging around for a fairly long while, for Classic and such.

God I hope the upgrade on the MBPro goes smoother than the dual G5 did. :baby:


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Check software update today,
There is a "Keychain and Login" software update.

However... Now my "Front Row" app won't work at all now.
But after doing the repair permissions I don't get that error message anymore.

Dave


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

PosterBoy said:


> If you do it over, try using the Archive and Install option (at the screen where you select what hard drive you want to install on, there is an "options" button at the bottom).
> 
> That way it maintains all your user settings and whatnot, but gives you a whole new OS. It's like doing a clean install without having to erase the HDD. Makes for less hassle.
> 
> Either that, of just do a clean install of Leopard. Is there any reason you are installing Tiger first? You should have a full install DVD for Leopard, right? Or have I forgotten something from the start of this thread?


Yeah, you need to reread. When the second install attempt went bad as well, I decided to take the machine back to its original state (ie Tiger) and start over again.

And I did do an archive and install after reinstalling Tiger albeit with limited success. Mail worked, disk utility didn't.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

krs said:


> While everyone is happily upgrading to Leopard, well SINC not so happily, I'm trying to upgrade an eMac from 10.2.8 to Tiger with all sorts of problems.
> I'll post some info an a request for help elsewhere, but for this problem, has nobody considered that the Leopard install disk may be defective?
> Every once in a while one gets defective video/movie DVDs, why should that be different for a DVD with an OS install on it?


And thus the title of the thread!


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

dolawren said:


> Check software update today,
> There is a "Keychain and Login" software update.
> 
> However... Now my "Front Row" app won't work at all now.
> ...


Dave, I ran the update and installed. While it did not ask me for a password, when I tried to repair permissions, I got this:

Repairing permissions for “Macintosh HD”
Warning: SUID file "System/Library/CoreServices/RemoteManagement/ARDAgent.app/Contents/MacOS/ARDAgent" has been modified and will not be repaired.

Permissions repair complete

And check the log report to see just how long it took to do that:

**********
2007-10-28 07:10:21 -0600: Disk Utility started.

2007-10-28 07:10:28 -0600: Repairing permissions for “Macintosh HD”
2007-10-28 07:17:51 -0600: Warning: SUID file "System/Library/CoreServices/RemoteManagement/ARDAgent.app/Contents/MacOS/ARDAgent" has been modified and will not be repaired.
2007-10-28 07:17:51 -0600: 
2007-10-28 07:17:52 -0600: Permissions repair complete
2007-10-28 07:17:52 -0600: 
2007-10-28 07:17:52 -0600:

The speed has improved so that all other functions are normal and maybe even a bit faster than Tiger.


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## Bilbo (Jul 12, 2001)

*Bad DVD?*

Sorry about your troubles... as far as a bad DVD goes, I would guess that would be possible. I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this, but heard that if you ran the most recent version of Diskwarrior, you can do some big time damage.

I upgraded my parents Mac Mini. It was slow as molasses, but it worked fine. 

My upgrade however... not so much. The install on my nearly 4 year old 17" PowerBook appeared to go fine but on the restart, I was stuck at the Blue screen. After numerous attempts running Disk Utility on the install disk (which always told me my drive was fine) I decided to snag my son's iBook and go on line to research the problem. (at 3am) A ton of people were having the same problem. It turns out that the Application Enhancer software which is required for the FruitMenu and Windowshade Haxies was the culprit. Evidently, if I was checking out MacFixit all week, I'd have known about this conflict ahead of time.

I connected my PowerBook to my son's iBook in target disk mode, did a seek and destroy for all Application Enhancer files, said a little prayer and rebooted. That worked fine. I have also noticed that Mail seems much faster.

Good luck with you're situation... I'm going to keep following this thread, I'm really curious about why this is happening – keep us updated.

B


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## Munchie (Mar 10, 2006)

*Leopard*

Clean install on new drive, repartitioned, erased, the Stand alone install with optional installs. 38 minutes from start to finish. Rebooted, reset nvram, restart then did migration. from old drive of user accounts. 47 minutes from start to finish. Not one glitch, everything blazing fast, added LaCie 750 GB external for time machine ran it over night, complete back-up with incremental back-ups on the hour. Even called and my Leopard shirt is on the way. An early developer report also documented install permission error' which was avoided by doing the above, sorry can't remember which release I got it on, but when I find it I will post it.

This OS is fast..............


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

Shirt? Who did you call? Apple?


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## dibenga (Oct 30, 2001)

THanks SINC for swaying my normal need to early adopt. I'm gonna sit on those hands. Sorry you are having so much grief from it.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Just noted another problem. 

I can receive mail, but I cannot send mail. The send button is grayed out, as is the "Send" function in the menu line under messages.

Just plain weird.


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## Atroz (Aug 7, 2005)

SINC said:


> Just noted another problem.
> 
> I can receive mail, but I cannot send mail. The send button is grayed out, as is the "Send" function in the menu line under messages.
> 
> Just plain weird.


Make sure your Mail account settings are correct. When doing the setup it actually confirms that it can connect. Perhaps you didn't get the confirmation and didn't notice?


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## Daktari (Feb 21, 2005)

Someone posted a link ealier to the apple support forums dealing with this issue and the cause was the outgoing mail server settingswere no longer present in Leopard. Hope it helps!


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Daktari said:


> Someone posted a link ealier to the apple support forums dealing with this issue and the cause was the outgoing mail server settingswere no longer present in Leopard. Hope it helps!


Bingo! That was it, thanks.


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## WorldIRC (Mar 7, 2004)

Other then my registration for Sibelius 5, everything went perfect in the upgrade! I did a repair permissions and it only fixed one minor thing. Everything is running fast! No beach ball or anything! Office 2008 beta running great as well


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## mmp (Oct 20, 2001)

Did you take the option to verify the installation DVD at the beginning? Mine took about 45 minutes to verify but I'm glad I did it given your problems and the chance it could be a bad DVD. Mine installed without a hitch although I will wait to run Time Machine until tonight as it seems to be slowing things down.


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## absolutetotalgeek (Sep 18, 2005)

Kills me how long this thread is getting...:lmao: Take the disc back and get a new one, if you have the same problem, well, take it from there...


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

There are reports that anyone who has Uninsanity Software's ShapeShifter installed in 10.4x is having major issues with a Leopard install (takes hours to restart after install). The issue seems to be centered on the Application Enhancer framework that ShapeShifter installs.

The workaround is to Archive & Install rather than the default "Upgrade". Even better is to launch the ShapeShifter installer under Tiger, and choose "uninstall" before attempting to install Leopard.


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## imobile (Oct 6, 2007)

absolutetotalgeek said:


> Kills me how long this thread is getting...:lmao: Take the disc back and get a new one, if you have the same problem, well, take it from there...


Yes, me too.
My little cat is lost in Pura World ... I get this stoopid message on their track

2007/10/26	17:20	Scheduled Delivery Appointment Required	
2007/10/26	08:48	On vehicle for delivery	
2007/10/25	19:23	Shipment In Transit	
2007/10/25	19:22	Received at Not known or specified	
2007/10/24	08:30	In Transit in U.S.

RECEIVED at 'not known' ... does person receiving not know where he she is? Hello... you are one suspects north of 48th parallel! It has crossed US Border!!!

And last cryptic massage ... Scheduled Delivery Appointment Required	

What the h**l does that mean?
I was at point of delivery all bloody day !

Anyway, Puralotor's track crap is a joke!


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