# I want a Scooter motorcycle!!!!



## gastonbuffet (Sep 23, 2004)

I live in Downtown Toronto. I'll be dammed if i had a car with the hellish traffic.
So i want a scooter (i always been a bike rider in Argentina) to NOT stop at red lights, NOT stop for pedestrians, NOT respect public transit right of way..... 
well basically, to break all the downtown records getting from A to B.

Okay, maybe I'm exaggerating a little; but i still do want a small maneuvrable scooter. I have my eyes on the Yamaha Vino 125. 
Comments, Opinions, Experiences, deals, all are welcomed and encouraged.
And thanks in advance for all the sane people that think that Toronto's traffic could be dangerous for a scooter rider and would like to talk me out of it ; but with me on two wheels, the only thing in danger is TO 's traffic . 
but thanks for caring!!!


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Check your insurance ratings and with the Province - some require M class licences and special insurance others not.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

gb, I once had a Honda 125. Not sure if it was like the Yamaha Vino 125, since this was back in 1967. Got me around New York City with no problems, however.


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

I'm a scooterist hence my login name. I would have to say that anything other than a Vespa or Lambretta is crap, but then I'm a stuck up Vespa and Lambretta owner, and would never consider a auto plastic scooter.

In reality, those Vinos look cool, cheap to maintain, don't break down much, doesn't stink like a 2 stroke, quite, has modern Japanese manufacturing, won't rust, modern 4 stroke output. It's a good choice for a scooter. On the other hand they're cheap to maintain, don't break down much, doesn't stink like a 2 stroke, quite, has modern Japanese manufacturing, won't rust, modern 4 stroke output and it won't need a lot of work. So they're no fun for us vintage snobs. So don't be surprised if you see a pack of Vespas and you give the biker nod, and they laugh at you, or ignore you, we're stuck up like that. 

You'll need to get a full M license to ride a 125. New law that just passed in November changed the moped licensing to any 2 wheel vehicle that cannot go faster than 70KM/h, the driver must posses a M1, M2 M2-Limited or M-Limited or M license to ride. If you already had a moped, or limited speed motorcyle, previous to this new license, you would be exempt. A better understand of this new license is on the ministries website.

Also you might have heard of this new law, free street parking for motorcycles in the city of Toronto. More info at www.rockthescooter.com.

Insurance is pretty cheap, I pay about $400 a year to insure my 1978 Vespa P200E. You'll find most scooterist are with Duffy Insurance, I was with RidersPlus on my first bike, but they stopped insuring bikes over 25 y/o so they dropped me when I told them I bought another bike.

There are about 3 toronto scooters Yahoo groups, one is more for vintage owners, another more for autos, and the third which is the main group, is for everyone on a scooter. There are usually some bikes for sale there. But the best places to find them are probably craigslist, and autotrader. Do not buy on EBAY without an experienced scooterist recommendation. Not that we'll take it from you, but we can see a bodge job from a mile away, and we've seen so many bad bikes, that there are certain things that look good to the unexperienced, but to a experienced rider, we wouldn't even consider it for a chopper, plus no shop will touch it, when you need to repair it.

If you look at any other scooters, most are okay, stay away from Chinese (Cronos), they're death traps, if anybody tries to sell you a vietnam restore job run away, they're worst then the Chinese made bikes. Horror stories can be seen here www.scooterbbs.com, you'll find much better answers here if you have to question a bike.

They're are a few scooterist on here in ehmac, so you'll get pretty good answers. Let us know on what you get.

vince


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Hey scoots - do your groups have a forum site?? Good post BTW


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## razz (Sep 21, 2003)

A friend of mine has the Yamaha Vino and he LOVES IT. I even rode on the back of it and it was truly awesome. For the money you save on insurance AND gas, it's the only way to go (IMHO) if you live/work in the big city


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## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

I have no suggestions, I prefer motorcycles myself, but I have come across a fun little scooter video.

http://www.vintagejerry.com/taxi.wmv


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Have you seen the newest Piaggio scooters?

I just love the look of the 250 cc scooter,
Although the 500 cc scooter would be nice to have as well.

References site:
http://www.piaggiocanada.com/pscooters/bv250.cfm#nowhere

BTW...I have a GM licence

Edit:
I removed the images because they aren't mine,
You can find the images at the above link.

D


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## DoNotPokeTheScreen (Jun 9, 2005)

MacDoc said:


> Check your insurance ratings and with the Province - some require M class licences and special insurance others not.


The last time I checked the official government website, to ride a Vespa or scooters (any vehicle powered by a motor) withOUT pedals must require an M license. I could be wrong, though. Consult Scootsandludes.


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

MacDoc said:


> Hey scoots - do your groups have a forum site?? Good post BTW



The best place to get info on anything scooter related is scooterbbs.com, the site has been around since '96, it's more US based, but there's a lot of Canadians on the site. If you're looking at autos stay away from the vintage area, you'll get flamed like there's no tomorrow, there is an auto section, but you can probably guess, it's not as active as the vintage. But still a lot of good info there, if you're looking anything that's not well known brand name, like Yamaha, Honda, Vespa, or Lambretta, check out the scam area, you'll find all the bad brands, & asian restos, the guy who runs the site has actually tested and gone through everything that has a bad rep, and can back it up, so you don't make a bad purchase.

The Toronto based forums are just Yahoo groups. This one is more auto based http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ontarioscoots/ 
General http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/to_scooters/?yguid=9163055 If there's a rally this year, this is the place to get the info.
And vintage http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/VintageSC/?yguid=9163055 

There are probably more scooter groups, some are more detailed, or groups that organize weekly group rides in the summer. You'll have to look them up yourself. Most of them are pretty dead right now, because of the weather, but once it get's really warm, they get pretty active. 

vince


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

DoNotPokeTheScreen said:


> The last time I checked the official government website, to ride a Vespa or scooters (any vehicle powered by a motor) withOUT pedals must require an M license. I could be wrong, though. Consult Scootsandludes.


That's the old law, it was just revised in November or October '05. It used to be if it had pedals, goes less than 50km/h and not legal to ride on a 400 series highway, you didn't need a M license, and it was legal to bring a 50 cc scooter on a 400 series highway as long as you had an M license (stupid law). New law is 70 km/h or less pedals or not, and not allowed to go on a 400 series highway you need a M-limited license, which btw is real easy to get, drive around a parking lot, and you're done. 

Better off getting a full license, I got my full M last summer, I did a course forget the name but they're located in the king west area, they have a special class for scooterist, and probably another special class now for the new license. But for scooterist, they take you on the Allen Expressway instead of having to go on a 400 series to get your license. You get a few hours of class time, about 4 or 5 hours of practice, then the test. If your confident, it's pretty easy, I only made 2 mistakes out of 25 allowed out of 100, their average is about 9 mistakes for people who pass the course, and they say about 9/10 pass their first time. Those who don't take the course usually have a 50/50 chance of passing if just going through the ministry, plus most examiners with the ministry are NOT motorcyclist and have no idea what it's like out there. It's well worth it to take a safety course, it's amazing how much you forget about the rules if you've been riding for a few years after you get your M2.

vince


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## gastonbuffet (Sep 23, 2004)

Thanks all
Scoots, Thank you in particular for all the very valuable inside info. I did know the license requirements, but all the rest is gold!

wonderings, the video is the beginning of the french movie "taxi", which is a jem. There is a recent american version that i haven't seen, but the french one is really good. And that's exactly how i used to drive!!!!!!!!!!!


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## DoNotPokeTheScreen (Jun 9, 2005)

Thank you, Scootsandludes.

Do you know how much it is to get a license, so I can ride a cheap scooter or a used Vespa? How long does it take?


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

Sucky new law. It used to be possible to ride a moped without any licence, on certain roads. 15 years ago, mind you. Got me to work for one whole summer before I could legally drive


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

DoNotPokeTheScreen said:


> Thank you, Scootsandludes.
> 
> Do you know how much it is to get a license, so I can ride a cheap scooter or a used Vespa? How long does it take?


Getting motorcycle license is like getting a car license, but with a shorter wait time. best thing to do is to find a course that's close to you, there's Humber, sheridan, I think centennial all offer courses, and there's also a few private ones. Can't list off the price for the training, but Google is your friend, they also list the price of getting the license at the mto website.

Generally you get an M1, I think you have 90 days to get your M2, but 60 of those days are probationary, meaning you can't get your M2, until after those 60 days. Your M2 or M2 limited depending on which you choose to get, you must keep for a minimum of 18 months if you do a Rider Training Course, 24 months if you don't, and you have a maximum of 5 years to practice before going for your full M or M Limited license exit exam. you don't really need to take a course for your exit exam, but it helps, it was about $200 for the exit exam.

Best way of doing it. Book a weekend to do you M2 test, find out when it will be as these classes book up fast. If you get a class in August, no point in doing a M1 exam now. On the other hand if you can get an april class, it would be a good idea to go get your m1 now. Test is easy, go to chapters, find the motorcycle handbook, and go over it, while your there, brush up on your car skills with a little light reading with the drivers handbook. Your written exam will have some car driving questions, so it doesn't hurt to be ready. M2 is pretty straightforward, they'll teach you everything you need to know, and at the end they'll test you. If you fail you just go back the next week and redo the test, you can keep redoing until you past, but if you keep failing you might want to rethink motorcycles.

The training centre I went with is www.ridertraining.ca. Very professional and courteous. The instructors are great too, the head guy there also rides scooters, so they won't mock you for riding a scooter. I did both of my exams with them, and I highly recommend it.

vince


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## SkyHook (Jan 23, 2001)

.


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## DoNotPokeTheScreen (Jun 9, 2005)

Hey Vince,

Thanks a lot. I'll see if I can go for M-2 this summer.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I used to have a Honda Passport C70 back in 1981,
It was the best 4 stroke scooter I ever had, It had a foot clutch with a 3 speed selector.

http://www.velodrome.com/hondaC70/hondaC70.html

I wish Honda would import them again.

D


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

The Honda C90 on the other hand is being sold in Mexico...
I wonder if it could be driven from Mexico to Canada?

http://translate.google.com/transla...+de+Mexico+C90&hl=en&lr=&client=safari&rls=en

heh...

D


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

When I was in Cozumel Mexico in 2003 they had Honda Passport scooters that
were being used as Pizza delivery bikes, What I'd give to have one of those.

D


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Just looking at the "Fly" 150 and thought it looked like a good deal:
http://www.motoretta.ca/fly150.aspx

Compared to most of the other scooter makers this scooter looks like the best in value.

D


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## gastonbuffet (Sep 23, 2004)

thanks for the head up dolawren!

i've just checked it out, $4500 for a 150cc . Not really a steal , imho. i have to compare it with yamaha vino 125 cc at $3600. is the piaggio that much better? 
Bueller? bueller? ........ scoots?


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## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

Wow....

great post.

I went looking @ some Scooters this weekend. Know next to nothing about these 2 wheelers (or any 2 wheeler for that matter). But I wanted to get one last summer, and sat on it .

So, I'm off to take another look @ a few more today. Never thought that I would want a 125cc, but I suddenly am having some thoughts after reading this post. I cetainly have no want or need to hit any kind of hwy.

I do like the feel and fit of the Vino. I sales guy last year told me that i might want some thicker tires. Though I have had the BW in my sight for ever - but don't feel so comfortable when I sit on it... feels high (??!?!). I also hear some rumblings about the Honda Ruckus which has been in production for a few years overseas, and is relatively new to the CDN market. I then looked @ the Big Ruckus @ 250cc... [sigh].

One dealer told me that i could have the BW/Ruckus for $3k/$3400 out the door. Taxes in and all. For 6 months of the year?? May make some sense. Just a touch more than I wanted to spend and a summer something to boot around in...

Anyhow, the serach intensifies.


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## gastonbuffet (Sep 23, 2004)

Ohenri said:


> One dealer told me that i could have the BW/Ruckus for $3k/$3400 out the door. Taxes in and all.



I say, what? Those are 50cc prizes , right? If wrong, please Ohenry, disclose dealer.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Another bike that you might want to consider is the Tomos:

http://www.tomoscanada.com/EN/2005-streetline.html
http://www.tomoscanada.com/EN/showroom/streetmate-intro.html

I saw one parked on a sidewalk near Broadview and Danforth,
They looked pretty nice, Although I might be afraid of getting laughed at on it.
(I liked the bigger wheels though)

The engine is interesting because it's a 2 stroke without a reed valve,
I'm not entirely sure how that works, But it's supposed to be far superior.
(Something to do with an airbox thingy, I'd have to see it in the dealership)

D


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

I was just at Vespa Markham yesterday buying a new jacket for riding, and the shop keepers tell me that they are officially having their Grand Opening in two Saturdays on May 13, and they are allowing test rides in the back for anybody who want to try them out. 

If you never been on a scooter before, this is a great chance to take a scooter out to see the difference between a 50 to something with a little more guts.

I also think most of these 50cc's are way over priced. I'd look for a used one, there seems to be tonnes of them floating around now check autotrader.ca and craigslist. You can also try scoot.net a few YYZ listing but not a lot.

good luck
vince


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

A friend just picked up a new Honda scooter - looks more like a touring bike. 'Way cool. The <b>Honda SilverWing</b>:

<img src="http://gblx.cache.el-mundo.net/elmundomotor/especiales/2001/12/anuario_motor/imagenes/motos/honda_silverwing_g.jpg">

A very impressive machine - and to quote my pal, "it goes like snot!" Out on the highway he hit 130km/h without thinking - very, very smooth. Fully automatic, dual disk ABS, decent storage, well tricked out. And from the front, it looks like a pretty wicked racer.


M


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## Loafer (Jan 7, 2004)

Watch Quadrophenia and then tell me you don't want to get a Vespa!

http://www.quadrophenia.net/thefilm/screencaptures/Mods.jpg

I was looking into the Vino some time ago....I was just on the verge of getting one, then BAM! the Mrs got pregnant, game over 
Well, maybe for a couple years anyway.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

You might want to consider who has the most mechanics,
I don't think Vespa has as many mechanics as Yamaha does.
Also parts for the do it yourselfer might prefer to go for the rice burner bikes.

Check out this fun mini bike video for a laugh:
http://www.leftcoastminis.com/

D


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

dolawren said:


> You might want to consider who has the most mechanics,
> I don't think Vespa has as many mechanics as Yamaha does.
> Also parts for the do it yourselfer might prefer to go for the rice burner bikes.
> 
> D


On the other hand, there are more Vespas than any other kind of scooters combined on the road. Also the difference between a Vespa mechanic and a Yamaha mechanic is The vepa mechanic is also a scooterist, while the Yamaha mechanic will probably make fun of you, and will also know the bike better, than a mechanic that has to know all sorts of bikes.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

scootsandludes said:


> On the other hand, there are more Vespas than any other kind of scooters combined on the road. Also the difference between a Vespa mechanic and a Yamaha mechanic is The vepa mechanic is also a scooterist, while the Yamaha mechanic will probably make fun of you, and will also know the bike better, than a mechanic that has to know all sorts of bikes.


Saw an ad recently on Craiglist "Vespa mechanic wanted in the Beaches"

I know that there is a Vespa dealership in the Beaches but they don't seem to have
a mechanic shop, Just a showroom.

Whereas the Yamaha dealership has both...Made me think about it.

D


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

dolawren said:


> Saw an ad recently on Craiglist "Vespa mechanic wanted in the Beaches"
> 
> I know that there is a Vespa dealership in the Beaches but they don't seem to have
> a mechanic shop, Just a showroom.
> ...


I know that they used to send scoots out to a garage in Scarborough called Ride Scooters, for all the east end mechanic needs, but they've since closed that garage and the mechanic there, now works at at the shop in the head office of Canada scooter corp., the company that imports Vespa, Piaggio, Derbi, and Moto Guzzi. 

But you're probably right, there's way too many Vespa's and not enough mechanics to work on them. The whole scooter craze sort of caught everybody off guard, so there's a lack of mechanics for everybody, but even full size motorcycle shops are having trouble keeping up with the mechanics with the beautiful weather, and everybody wanting their bikes ready yesterday. I'm one of them


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

*Test Rides*

Just to let anybody who's still interested in this topic. I booked a demo ride with Honda Canada to try out the Reflex







for Thursday night.

You can book a demo ride by calling their 1-800 number on their website http://honda.ca/MotorcycleEng/Events/default.htm

They have other bikes you can try out if this isn't your thing.

You just need to have proper full riding gear, and valid M license to take it out, website says they'll have other events for people with learners at an upcoming date.

I imagine the other manufacturers also have demo days as well, just check their sites.

vince


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

I'm here in Bagkok for a week and a bit. Scooters are everywhere...

I drove by a place and saw a next to new one adverized for 14,000 Baht (about $400 CDN)


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I went by the "Ontario Honda" dealership/garage on Queen St. East and noticed
that they have shut down, They were the last dealership/garage closest to the Beaches.

There are just a few choices left now, CycleWorld, Snow City and McBride are just a
few of the survivors left since the insurance companies ruined the industry.

We'll just have to see what the scooter and moped industry brings,
With the price of gas being so high, Hopefully a revival of dealership/garages is at hand.

I'd love to get a 3 wheeled 4 stroke pickup or mini mini van
http://www.burbankkawasaki.com/web_220304/web/rikshaw.html#deliver


D


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I found a new scooter dealer in the Ontario area including Toronto:
http://www.pertuttimotors.com/home.html

These scooters come in either a 50cc or 150cc
The 150cc scooter has 13" tires, Good size tires for a scooter.

D


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

dolawren said:


> I found a new scooter dealer in the Ontario area including Toronto:
> http://www.pertuttimotors.com/home.html
> 
> These scooters come in either a 50cc or 150cc
> ...


Yeah, Doc's Leather sells them, they also own a chopper shop, Wildside Choppers, so you can get them there too, also serviced as well I guess.

I wouldn't jump on those right away. We were just talking about them on my scooter list. General consensus is we don't know. First off these are Chinese scooters with an Italian sounding name. Which is generally the first warning sign. Chinese scooters haven't had a great reputation in the scootering community. They're known for breaking down, and then parts are hard to find, and people willing to work on them is next to nobody. If you check scooterbbs.com, and look under the bad scooter/seller section, you'll see they're mostly Chinese scoots if it's not Vespa/Lambretta related. They go by several different names, but generally they're made by Geeley, whose a big motor manufacturer in China who's been getting a pretty good reputation for their cars, but not the scooters. I'd stay away until somebody properly tests them. 

The only good sign is they passed MOT testing. But scooters like this have been selling in Pepboys, Costco and ebay in the states, and have had bad reps. I'd wait on these for now, this could be a life or death situation if you're not lucky.

On the other hand, that Honda Reflex I tried out the other day was okay, slow on the pick up, not a lot of torque, but good cruising speeds, got it up to 100km/h, but there wasn't much speed after that with a full throttle. My only complaint is the CVT transmission. Coming from a manual shifter, I kept grabbing the brakes thinking it was the clutch and kept moving my right foot looking for a rear brake. So if you're coming from a motorcycle, it's no fun, but I guess you'd get used to it, but I'll stick to traditional shifting. Final thoughts is, it's good for a commuter, but not much fun, and it's expensive, but dam was it comfortable, it's like a easy chair on wheels.

vince


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