# The ongoing Canadian Mac Accounting software issue



## Sonal

Now that Lion is out, I finally got around to installing Snow Leopard and that's when I discovered that my accounting software (QuickBook Accounts for Mac, the one that is actually a re-branded MYOB) needs Rosetta to run. Not a big deal, but evidently once I move to Lion, this will no longer work.

So I figure, now's a good time to change things over, get used to a new system, etc.

At my workplace, I use QuickBooks on Windows very heavily. I confess that I love it, well, as much as anyone can love accounting software. In fact, the books for my other companies are on the computers at my workplace so that I can use QuickBooks.

I actually really hate this MYOB-like thing I currently use. Find it clunky and awkward. It's just annoying to switch but it looks like the time has come.

Here are my thoughts on how I could go. 
1) Vista/parallels and run Windows Quickbooks on Windows on the Mac. Advantages, familiarity, can actually do accounting on my laptop at work instead of a special Windows desktop. Disadvantages, most likely slow and will not necessarily work well.

2) QuickBooks for Mac, the US version. Advantages, it's hopefully reasonably similar to Windows Quickbooks, Disadvantages, will have to figure out how to set up all the Canadian stuff (HST, payroll). Fortunately, that's not a lot, but it pulls at the limits of my accounting skills.

3) Something else entirely. Advantages, unknown. Disadvantages, unknown.

I did a search and turned up not too much. A few people recommend MoneyWorks, but I know nothing about it. A quick look at the website reveals that it looks reasonable, how is it for a QuickBooks user to get used to?

If anyone knows anything, I would appreciate hearing it.


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## Tech Elementz

Make a Bootcamp partition....Install the Windows Version...

Advantages - Not slow (taking full advantage of Mac Hardware via OS X drivers)

Disadvantages - Booting into OS X and Windows could be annoying with holding the option key, or setting the startup disk via Windows or Mac

- reinstalling/repartitioning Windows could create Disk issues via Disk Utility


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## Tech Elementz

Also find a bunch of alterantes to Quickbooks Pro... (if you wish to look at any of them)

MacFreelance $40
www.macxware.com/site/products/MacFreelance/overview.html

Accounted $60
Accounted | Real Accounting Made Easy

PowerEasy ERP (for Mac OS X Server)
[http://www.effigent.com/html/productpowereasyenterprise.htm]

Connected Accounting $589 and up
[http://www.goconnected.com/]
[http://www.accountek.com/index.html]

FileClerk
[http://www.landrumsoftware.com/]

Genesis Accounting
http://www.newmillen...s&link=BusinessSoftwareGAOverview&


MultiLedger from CheckMark Software, Inc.
CheckMark Software -- Payroll Software and Accounting Software

MoneyWorks 
[]MoneyWorks ? Seriously Good Accounting Software

Aatrix Accounting
https://www.aatrix.com/index.php/mac-home

Big Business
Big Business Product Information

Accounts from Nano Software
Nano Software - Accounts

AcctVantage
Accounting Software for Mac and Windows - AcctVantage ERP

4th QuarterAccounting.
http://www.4thquarter.com/products/4QDescription.html

JobOrder
JobOrder Business Process Management

Hold-up
http://www.pol-online.net/hold_up/]

TinyBooks
http://www.winograd.com]

Corona $65
http://www.designers...in.com/corona/]

Clients & Profits X agency management software
http://www.cnp-x.com]

FinanceToGo $45
http://www.fastforwa...s/financetogo/]


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## gwillikers

What about Moneydance? Or is that not a Canada friendly solution?

I don't use any accounting software at all, but I did notice that some were switching to Moneydance on another forum.


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## jeff70hem

I just purchased MoneyWorks Gold, looks great so far, you should download and use the trial version to see if you like it


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## Sonal

If I use Bootcamp, that would be a separate Windows boot, yes? That would be a little annoying, in that I'd have to reboot every time I wanted to make an accounting entry or check something, and then have to boot back into Mac to do anything else.... still, it could work.

Tech Elementz, thanks. I'll give some of those a closer look, though a quick glance shows that some of them aren't actually full accounting software. My needs are pretty simple, but at the same time, I occasionally venture into fancy accounting tricks... be easier not to try and figure out how to adapt.

gwillikers, thanks, but that looks more like personal finance than accounting.

jeff70hem, do you know how that compares to QuickBooks?


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## groovetube

if all else fails, use vmware. It isn't like you need any real performance for running accounting software.


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## Sonal

groovetube said:


> if all else fails, use vmware. It isn't like you need any real performance for running accounting software.


Well, the POS Windows box I use to make QuickBooks go at work proves otherwise... of course, then I discovered there were like 12 software updates all trying to run simultaneously and that evidently bogged things down. It's much zippier now.

Still, that might just be the simplest thing to do.


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## QuickBooksCanada

*Mac Compatible QuickBooks in Canada*



Sonal said:


> I use QuickBooks on Windows very heavily. I confess that I love it, well, as much as anyone can love accounting software. In fact, the books for my other companies are on the computers at my workplace so that I can use QuickBooks....
> 
> I actually really hate this MYOB-like thing I currently use. Find it clunky and awkward. It's just annoying to switch but it looks like the time has come.......
> 
> ....I did a search and turned up not too much. A few people recommend MoneyWorks, but I know nothing about it. A quick look at the website reveals that it looks reasonable, how is it for a QuickBooks user to get used to?
> 
> If anyone knows anything, I would appreciate hearing it.


Hi there 
Although we don't currently have a QuickBooks solution for Mac users in Canada (as ofcourse you know), we are working on options to help you run your business with QuickBooks regardless of the type of operating system you're on. 

1. We are looking into QuickBooks Online for our Canadian users.
2. You can sign up to get notified when a QuickBooks solution for Mac is available in Canada. QuickBooks® for Mac | Intuit QuickBooks Canada
3. You can find work-arounds, in the event that you wish to install/continue to use QuickBooks on your Mac today, including VMWare Fusion, Parallels Desktop and some more info on the US Mac version (all on same link as above)

Not a perfect answer, but perhaps it helps a little? 
@quickbooksca


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## Sonal

QuickBooksCanada said:


> Hi there
> Although we don't currently have a QuickBooks solution for Mac users in Canada (as ofcourse you know), we are working on options to help you run your business with QuickBooks regardless of the type of operating system you're on.
> 
> 1. We are looking into QuickBooks Online for our Canadian users.
> 2. You can sign up to get notified when a QuickBooks solution for Mac is available in Canada. QuickBooks® for Mac | Intuit QuickBooks Canada
> 3. You can find work-arounds, in the event that you wish to install/continue to use QuickBooks on your Mac today, including VMWare Fusion, Parallels Desktop and some more info on the US Mac version (all on same link as above)
> 
> Not a perfect answer, but perhaps it helps a little?
> @quickbooksca


Well, if you are who you claim you are, I have some questions, the first one being that if you put out a product for Canadian Mac Users, do you actually plan to support it?

Seriously. I shelled out $600 for that rebranding MYOB not knowing that it wasn't 'real' QuickBooks only to have you drop support next year. Thanks. 

And honestly, if you have an online version (though personally I want my books on my desktop) and a US version, and Canadian PC versions, how hard is it really to make this work in Canada? You have all the domain knowledge in house. People have made the US version work in Canada by setting up a few things. There's no logical reason why this is so hard for you to do.

Also, there's a lot of reports that QuickBooks does not always run well Fusion or Parallels, and that Intuit offers no support. Fair enough, except that you guys are somewhat legendary in your lack of support for Canadian Mac users.

Our whole office keeps PCs around solely to run QuickBooks, which gets used more than any other piece of software. If it weren't for that, we could just go to Mac and make our life easier. And if we could use BOTH a Mac version of QuickBooks AND a PC version of QuickBooks on the same data file, the way just about every other major software company does things, that would be awesome.

Finally, regarding your PC version... when we upgraded to 2009, performance slowed dramatically. I run roughly 35 companies in QuickBooks, and switching from one to the next has gone from seconds to minutes, which actually does cause business problems for us. File sizes increases dramatically too. What's with all the bloat? 

Thank you.


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## Sonal

Looking that the QuickBooks Mac/Canada page, looks like these are the big differences...



> Should I Use the US Version of QuickBooks for Mac?
> 
> The US product is created for American businesses, with a US sales tax model and other differences (e.g., states not provinces, zip codes not postal codes). Also, the US product:
> 
> * Won't calculate Canadian payroll taxes
> * Won't handle CRA remittances
> * Won't allow online banking with Canadian financial institutions


Well... 
1) I don't calculate my payroll in QuickBooks. I do it online with CRA, set it up as a memorized transaction, and carry on from there. 
2) I don't remit directly from QB. I do it manually and make the entry.
3) Don't use the feature. I enter my transactions as I go, and then reconcile manually.

So looks like if I were to use US QuickBooks, the main thing I'd have to do is adapt one of the US sales tax models to work like HST. This is not so tricky.

And seriously, _these_ are the things that prevent a Canadian Mac version? That's it? If you have reasonably robust programming, this isn't a terribly difficult thing to overcome. Or you can launch a Canadian version that is slightly less feature-rich. I'll take it over the nothing and on-again/off-again support you used to offer.


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## broad

this is something (canadian quickbooks) that literally 5+ people ask me about every week. the fact that it doesnt exist is an egregious oversight and a huge slight to a country that has the 3rd or 4th (last time i checked) highest mac user base in the world

get your poop together...srsly.


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## QuickBooksCanada

*Re: Mac Compatible QuickBooks in Canada*

Hey Sonal,

Thanks for your questions. I’d like to preface my response by saying that while I will answer your questions to the best of my ability, some of these matters happened a few years ago and I may not be able to comment directly on them. In the same vein, some of the questions are tech support related and as I’m in the marketing and social media department, I would not be able to answer them without reaching out to support for clarification/verification.

Currently we support any software we produce for 3 years. That is our sunsetting window due to the great cost of keeping reps trained on older operating systems and older versions of QuickBooks. The software that is soon to be released will be a web based version of QuickBooks and not a true Mac desktop version. We will support it for all users, regardless of operating system, as long as your work station meets the system requirements.

The issue with creating a Mac version for Canada has not been an issue of difficulty as much as expense and available revenue. Until recently the Mac business market in Canada has only represented about 10% of total Mac sales. This has not been a large enough market to offset the development and tech support costs of a Mac version. Fortunately, lately, the increases in this market size as well as the availability of better technology have allowed us the opportunity to provide a solution for Mac customers. As the software world moves to more and more of a SoftwareAsAService (SAAS) based offering we believe that providing QB as an online offering is the best method for serving the majority of customers as well as making the offering country specific from a single source. So, if you are interested in being notified as soon as a Mac compatible offering is available, please do sign-up (link was in previous post)!

As far as the current solution of using a PC emulator on the Mac, there are also many customers that this works quite well for. We fully support the QB software on the emulator, but cannot support the emulator itself as these are not our products and we did not develop them. While some software is able to provide compatible file types on both a Mac and PC, the complex nature of the database structure as well as the millions of lines of code within QuickBooks make this an impossibility in this type of software.

Your question about file sizes increasing after upgrading to 2009 I have heard of before, so you are not alone in this instance. As I am not in tech support though, I cannot give you an accurate answer as to why. However, it should not affect the overall speed of the software, if a file is quite large it would be slowed down due to Windows restrictions more than QuickBooks related ones.

Here is a link to the available support article on improving system performance: Improve QuickBooks system performance - QuickBooks® Support | Intuit Canada And you can reach tech support at 1-877-772-9158 if you would like to discuss this directly.

I hope that answers some of your questions? And thanks for the update on Twitter. 

@quickbooksca


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## Sonal

As it happens, I come from both a software programming background and a software marketing background. (And in fact, once held a role very similar to yours.) I appreciate you trying to answer, but honestly, most of these are non-answers. I know, because it's exactly the kind of non-answer I would have given.

Your company purchased MYOB, used it as a Canadian Mac offering for a year or so, and then abandoned its users without providing any kind of an upgrade path... even though you already had a QuickBooks for Mac in the US. Any way you try to spin it, that just sucks. And this is not, as I recall, the first instance of QuickBooks simply abandoning its Canadian Mac users. 

So to be honest, I fear for any Canadian Mac solution that you might put out, is simply going to be abandoned down the road. It's kind of ridiculous especially when from a technical point of view, it should not be difficult to create a functional (if less feature-rich) version of QuickBooks for Mac in Canada using your US model as a basis for this. Fewer features and less support for a Canadian Mac version is still preferable to absolutely nothing at all or simply walking away from users with no explanation, no support or no upgrade path.

You know, I get that sometimes you start off supporting something, and then later on you realize that it's not working out business-wise and you need to shut down that part of your business. But don't just simply vanish on your customers. Come up with a plan to keep them in some fashion or another. Yes, I understand that this plan may have to be a crappy plan, but it beats total abandonment.

Seriously, Intuit has pissed off a lot of Mac users over the years. Now that this market is growing, you may want to consider the effect of your burnt bridges.


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## jeff70hem

I can't relate to QuickBooks as I have never used it but I think any change away from it will probably be frustrating for you at first but will eventually prove to be worth it.

MoneyWorks also offer a Windows version.

I see that QuickBooks has noted they offer a cloud based application, in my opinion too expensive over time and most suppliers are using this method to lock you as a client.

Try the trial version, I am curious to hear your opinion. 








Sonal said:


> If I use Bootcamp, that would be a separate Windows boot, yes? That would be a little annoying, in that I'd have to reboot every time I wanted to make an accounting entry or check something, and then have to boot back into Mac to do anything else.... still, it could work.
> 
> Tech Elementz, thanks. I'll give some of those a closer look, though a quick glance shows that some of them aren't actually full accounting software. My needs are pretty simple, but at the same time, I occasionally venture into fancy accounting tricks... be easier not to try and figure out how to adapt.
> 
> gwillikers, thanks, but that looks more like personal finance than accounting.
> 
> jeff70hem, do you know how that compares to QuickBooks?


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## Sonal

There's no way my workplace will move to MoneyWorks... even just upgrading Quickbooks was such a pain. (And given the slowness and bloat, we're not totally sure if it was worth it, but downgrading is just not possible.)

But for me personally, seeing as I have to change, it might be worthwhile.

Oh dear, you know life is a little sad when you have to play with accounting software....



jeff70hem said:


> I can't relate to QuickBooks as I have never used it but I think any change away from it will probably be frustrating for you at first but will eventually prove to be worth it.
> 
> MoneyWorks also offer a Windows version.
> 
> I see that QuickBooks has noted they offer a cloud based application, in my opinion too expensive over time and most suppliers are using this method to lock you as a client.
> 
> Try the trial version, I am curious to hear your opinion.


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## broad

QuickBooksCanada said:


> Hey Sonal,
> 
> Thanks for your questions. I’d like to preface my response by saying that while I will answer your questions to the best of my ability, some of these matters happened a few years ago and I may not be able to comment directly on them. In the same vein, some of the questions are tech support related and as I’m in the marketing and social media department, I would not be able to answer them without reaching out to support for clarification/verification.
> 
> Currently we support any software we produce for 3 years. That is our sunsetting window due to the great cost of keeping reps trained on older operating systems and older versions of QuickBooks. The software that is soon to be released will be a web based version of QuickBooks and not a true Mac desktop version. We will support it for all users, regardless of operating system, as long as your work station meets the system requirements.
> 
> The issue with creating a Mac version for Canada has not been an issue of difficulty as much as expense and available revenue. Until recently the Mac business market in Canada has only represented about 10% of total Mac sales. This has not been a large enough market to offset the development and tech support costs of a Mac version. Fortunately, lately, the increases in this market size as well as the availability of better technology have allowed us the opportunity to provide a solution for Mac customers. As the software world moves to more and more of a SoftwareAsAService (SAAS) based offering we believe that providing QB as an online offering is the best method for serving the majority of customers as well as making the offering country specific from a single source. So, if you are interested in being notified as soon as a Mac compatible offering is available, please do sign-up (link was in previous post)!
> 
> As far as the current solution of using a PC emulator on the Mac, there are also many customers that this works quite well for. We fully support the QB software on the emulator, but cannot support the emulator itself as these are not our products and we did not develop them. While some software is able to provide compatible file types on both a Mac and PC, the complex nature of the database structure as well as the millions of lines of code within QuickBooks make this an impossibility in this type of software.
> 
> Your question about file sizes increasing after upgrading to 2009 I have heard of before, so you are not alone in this instance. As I am not in tech support though, I cannot give you an accurate answer as to why. However, it should not affect the overall speed of the software, if a file is quite large it would be slowed down due to Windows restrictions more than QuickBooks related ones.
> 
> Here is a link to the available support article on improving system performance: Improve QuickBooks system performance - QuickBooks® Support | Intuit Canada And you can reach tech support at 1-877-772-9158 if you would like to discuss this directly.
> 
> I hope that answers some of your questions? And thanks for the update on Twitter.
> 
> @quickbooksca


what types of businesses are you basing that "mac business market" statistic on? 

do you also not see how the lack of an industry standard accounting program might be one of the things that would keep businesses away from the mac platform? 

customer-"i cant drive my car in the rain as it has no roof. please build a roof for my car"
company-"well we've decided not to build roofs because we've seen that people don't like to drive in the rain"
customer-"but...but..if i had a roof on my car the rain wouldn't bother me"

etc etc etc ad nauseum. its a mobius strip


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## QuickBooksCanada

*Re: Mac Compatible QuickBooks in Canada*

Hi Sonal,

You are correct in that it is likely we could have handled Mac customers differently 6 years ago, but that was before my time at Intuit and I can't and should not comment on the decisions made at that time. We have been working to improve our relationship with our Mac customers (this little outreach being one thread in the tapestry), but as a business we are subject to the market and must make decisions from the view point of financial viability, or we would cease to be in business. As you know, software and technology industries change, yearly, monthly even, and our business plans change accordingly. So decisions we made in the past, while making sense then, may not seem to make as much now. We are constantly thriving to improve and become a better provider of accounting solutions given market requirements.

QB in Canada has been built off the US model in the past, but it still takes us a year to personalize the PC version for the Canadian market. We are not talking about a word program, but a complex interlocking of databases that MUST be correct and accurate as it deals with customers business livelihoods. A decision was made not to spend a year's worth of time on development and support training on Mac's for a market that would not buy enough copies to cover the cost of producing it. That is an unfortunate reality that we wish was not the case, but despite what Mac users may think, we are listening, we do care, we are planning ahead, and we are deeply sorry for the frustration felt today by our Canadian Mac users.

I would invite you once again to please sign-up to be notified as soon as a Mac compatible version of QuickBooks becomes available in Canada (with full support for all users.) QuickBooks® for Mac | Intuit QuickBooks Canada


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## Mythtaken

I tried running QuickBooks under VMware on my iMac a few years ago because I was familiar with it from when I ran Windoze. It quickly became a PITA. It was slow and some features didn't want to work. 

Like the OP, I was feeling a bit in limbo for a while. I tried the demo of Moneyworks but it just didn't make sense to me. After struggling for a while longer and finding nothing better, I bought Moneyworks, just because it was Mac native. 

I'm glad I did. Once I started working with my own data, everything seemed to fall into place. I've been using it for three years now and there's no way I'd go back to QB, even if they offer a Mac version. It's not perfect, and there are few things I wish were different, but I find the Moneyworks interface a whole lot faster and easier to work with than QB ever was. 

I'm a consultant and don't deal with things like inventory and restocking, so depending on your business, your milage may vary.


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## QuickBooksCanada

broad said:


> what types of businesses are you basing that "mac business market" statistic on?
> 
> do you also not see how the lack of an industry standard accounting program might be one of the things that would keep businesses away from the mac platform?
> 
> customer-"i cant drive my car in the rain as it has no roof. please build a roof for my car"
> company-"well we've decided not to build roofs because we've seen that people don't like to drive in the rain"
> customer-"but...but..if i had a roof on my car the rain wouldn't bother me"
> 
> etc etc etc ad nauseum. its a mobius strip



Hey,

We have our own research, but this is publicly available Technology - The Globe and Mail (9.7%)

... as is this which focuses on the IT industry, a different metric, this looks at market share ranking Canadian Mac market share at 14.03% vs US Mac market share of 15.79%, but considering their population is nearly 10% that of Canada (312mm vs 34mm), while our market share penetration is high (according to this IT use study) that actual numbers of users is comparably very low. Top 10 Mac countries by market share (United States is #3) | 9to5Mac | Apple Intelligence

I think I spoke to your 2nd point in my response to Sonar. We, as a business, are accountable to ALL our stakeholders; our employees and shareholders as well as our customers, and we cannot afford (in any sense of the word) to make decisions that are not financially feasible, even if some decisions might be unpopular among certain market segments. 

Regardless, we want you to know that we hear your frustration, and we are working on a solution. If you would like to know more, please do sign up as previously requested, or you can follow us on any of the social networks.

@quickbooksca


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## Sonal

You can stop pushing the link, as I have already signed up in the hopes that this will indicate to your company that there is a market for Canadian Mac users.  

I understand that you weren't there 6 years ago when your company chose to screw over the Canadian Mac market, but unfortunately as a representative of your company, you are going to be held responsible for those decisions. As you may be finding right now, users have long memories. And we're well aware of market conditions... we aren't dumb, you know. We know that the Mac market is smaller and that it's more financially difficult for a company to support a smaller user base. Though as you've probably seen, it's growing rapidly.

But if it takes so long to implement Canadian personalization, then I suspect that there is something very brittle about in the underlying program design. (I've actually always suspected this.) 

Here is a suggestion. Instead of personalizing the US version for the Canadian market, launch a version that is mostly de-personalized. A competent bookkeeper or accountant can set up workarounds for HST, payroll and remittances--in fact, we tend to do that in your Canadian-personalized Windows version anyway because it's faster and more flexible, and I have zero training in bookkeeping. 

It would be faster to implement, would require less support, and would fill a longstanding hole in the Canadian Mac Market. Hey, you can even offer it with minimal support. Then you can incrementally add features, functionality and personalization as the market demands. Shoot, you could have (and probably still could) charge a lot more for it even if it has less functionality because there's a big hole in this market, and even the smaller products that come out to fill this hole still seem rather paltry in comparison to QuickBooks. The best thing about QuickBooks _isn't_ that it's personalized... it's that it's far more flexible and forgiving than most accounting software. You don't need Canadian personalization to launch with that.

Most Mac users are used to having Mac versions lag behind Windows versions in terms of features, and are used to getting less support than Windows users. We might grumble, but that's okay. What's not okay is launching a product and then abandoning it totally, having nothing available and zero support. You have any idea how difficult it is to switch accounting programs? 

Seriously, if you do come out with a Canadian Mac product (and not an online one) I would want guarantees from Intuit that you will not leave users hanging again.


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## gtgt

AccountEdge | Small business accounting for Mac

I love this software, payroll, multiple platforms Canadian etc.
It's MYOB.


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## keebler27

gtgt said:


> AccountEdge | Small business accounting for Mac
> 
> I love this software, payroll, multiple platforms Canadian etc.
> It's MYOB.


+1 i use it and the link in to Daylite = works fantastic. invoicing is a breeze. reports are easy. it wasn't cheap, but it's completely overhauled my workflow to a seamless integration.

I've heard great things about moneyworks as well.

i was using QB on a pc and having to reboot was a pain. parallels would be the way to go, but then again, not even having to touch windows, is a blessing in itself. Accountedge has that mac software feel to it and flows nicely. I found the QB version I had (which was older) to be clunky.

And there's no way in hell i'd put my customer information and sales details online. not for a second... the concept is neat, but not for customer data like that, imho.

Cheers,
Keebler


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## Sonal

gtgt said:


> AccountEdge | Small business accounting for Mac
> 
> I love this software, payroll, multiple platforms Canadian etc.
> It's MYOB.





keebler27 said:


> +1 i use it and the link in to Daylite = works fantastic. invoicing is a breeze. reports are easy. it wasn't cheap, but it's completely overhauled my workflow to a seamless integration.
> 
> I've heard great things about moneyworks as well.
> 
> i was using QB on a pc and having to reboot was a pain. parallels would be the way to go, but then again, not even having to touch windows, is a blessing in itself. Accountedge has that mac software feel to it and flows nicely. I found the QB version I had (which was older) to be clunky.
> 
> And there's no way in hell i'd put my customer information and sales details online. not for a second... the concept is neat, but not for customer data like that, imho.
> 
> Cheers,
> Keebler


Ah yes--this is essentially the same product that Intuit put out for Canadian Mac users and abandoned. 

I do not like it. I find it extremely brittle to use compared to QuickBooks.

On the other hand, if it is the same product and can open up my existing accounting data, that will save me a heck of a lot of time in setting up a whole new system.


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## gtgt

Sonal said:


> Ah yes--this is essentially the same product that Intuit put out for Canadian Mac users and abandoned.
> 
> I do not like it. I find it extremely brittle to use compared to QuickBooks.
> 
> On the other hand, if it is the same product and can open up my existing accounting data, that will save me a heck of a lot of time in setting up a whole new system.


AccountEdge is actually owned now by the employees/ tech people who use to work for MYOB. They bought the rights for it but now can't use the name MYOB for copyright reasons. They are completely dedicated to it (thank god).
They update it all the time. I bought the US version of quickbooks trying to make it Canadian by changing the taxes but not didn't work at all. It wouldn't do an invoice with only some items pst exempt on it (when we in Ontario had a separate pst). I also have Moneyworks and hate it. My wife, a CA, is ok with it, but I'm a graphic artist and love the simplicity and ease of use of Accountedge. They even are going to have a iPad/iphone app for it. If your a numbers guy I can see you liking Moneyworks, a creative guy then Accountedge.


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## groovetube

keebler27 said:


> +1 i use it and the link in to Daylite = works fantastic. invoicing is a breeze. reports are easy. it wasn't cheap, but it's completely overhauled my workflow to a seamless integration.
> 
> I've heard great things about moneyworks as well.
> 
> i was using QB on a pc and having to reboot was a pain. parallels would be the way to go, but then again, not even having to touch windows, is a blessing in itself. Accountedge has that mac software feel to it and flows nicely. I found the QB version I had (which was older) to be clunky.
> 
> And there's no way in hell i'd put my customer information and sales details online. not for a second... the concept is neat, but not for customer data like that, imho.
> 
> Cheers,
> Keebler


interesting about your feeling on putting things into the cloud. What is everyone's feeling on that? Perhaps this is another thread title for the mac masters section (where this one should be probably)


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## keebler27

gtgt said:


> AccountEdge is actually owned now by the employees/ tech people who use to work for MYOB. They bought the rights for it but now can't use the name MYOB for copyright reasons. They are completely dedicated to it (thank god).
> They update it all the time. I bought the US version of quickbooks trying to make it Canadian by changing the taxes but not didn't work at all. It wouldn't do an invoice with only some items pst exempt on it (when we in Ontario had a separate pst). I also have Moneyworks and hate it. My wife, a CA, is ok with it, but I'm a graphic artist and love the simplicity and ease of use of Accountedge. They even are going to have a iPad/iphone app for it. If your a numbers guy I can see you liking Moneyworks, a creative guy then Accountedge.


let's hope they make that iphone/ipad app canadian too. they've been talking about that since the beginning of the year...literally January b/c that's when I bought it. it would be so handy to be at a client's place, enter the details and email them a PDF estimate, on the spot....or a PDF of a paid invoice confirmation. so handy.

I have the daylite app and it's functionality is fantastic (not cheap), but being able to enter in new clients or update info on the go then syncing it is so worth the cost. i can't tell you how many times I'm chatting with someone about business and then entered their info with a follow up task. works so well.

and groovetube, i guess it might depend on the industury (ie. my wife's a financial adviser and privacy is a huge issue of course). I realize the data isn't necessarily public in the cloud, but I'd be worried about security. For me, I personally wouldn't want my information out there in terms of what i've spent, bought etc... and more importantly, definitely not any CC history if a company chooses to keep that. way too many hacking stories going on these days of CC info being stolen.

I might be simply too paranoid however


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## kenkosik

I have used MYOB since the beginning of time then Quickbook Accounts for Macintosh Canada 5.5.8. 
I still use the QB for Mac Canada. About 4 years ago I started using moneyworks for my other company, so I am now using both programs for different companies at the same time. Took a while to get used to. Some things are better than QB some are not. I don't like that it auto posts some transactions (so far I have found no way around). Overall I like moneyworks better than QB for Mac. It's reporting is much better.
I have also used Account Edge for Canada. It is my good old MYOB. I liked it but no longer use it because I had already bought Moneyworks.
Looks like now that I am upgrading to Lion I will also be saying goodbye to QB for Mac.
I highly recommend moneyworks, just give yourself some time to get familiar with it.


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## slipstream

Happy as a clam with Quicken for Windows on my new iMac running in Windows 7 in Parallels under Snow Leopard then Lion. I've been using Quicken for years on PCs, so this was one of my main concerns about switching to Mac, since our Quicken files are fairly complex. Turned out to be a simple, seamless transition. Coherence makes Quicken and IE seem like they are Mac programs, so need to keep that straight when I have them open. I dedicate a Lion deskto to them and open Office for Mac programs like Excel alongside Quicken. I use Internet Explorer to update the Quicken files with online bank accounts. No other software comes close to Quicken for me.


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## CoderMummy

*Still looking for Year End solution*

I myself am looking for something to replace Simply Accounting. I'm trying to become completely Windows-Free as well for utter convenience and elimination of constant file sharing networking issues.

I've recently tried and chosen to try the Billings App and absolutely love it. If you operate a service based business like I do, this app is the best thing that happened to the Mac. From what I've experienced so far, while it tracks time and creates invoices beautifully, It appears to lack in the advanced accounting functions that you would find in Quickbooks or Simply Accounting.

So while it is not a total replacement... yet... I am now doing all of my client invoicing in Billings, then monthly I enter Billings Invoices into Simply Accounting along with my expense chits... taking me down from having to use Simply on a daily basis to only 12 times a year.

For now, I can live with that!


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## gtgt

CoderMummy said:


> I myself am looking for something to replace Simply Accounting. I'm trying to become completely Windows-Free as well for utter convenience and elimination of constant file sharing networking issues.
> 
> I've recently tried and chosen to try the Billings App and absolutely love it. If you operate a service based business like I do, this app is the best thing that happened to the Mac. From what I've experienced so far, while it tracks time and creates invoices beautifully, It appears to lack in the advanced accounting functions that you would find in Quickbooks or Simply Accounting.
> 
> So while it is not a total replacement... yet... I am now doing all of my client invoicing in Billings, then monthly I enter Billings Invoices into Simply Accounting along with my expense chits... taking me down from having to use Simply on a daily basis to only 12 times a year.
> 
> For now, I can live with that!


Accountedge has time tracking too!


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## OnlineMac

I am using both Simply Accounting and Quickbooks on my Mac, and I am a Mac newbie. I am using a service from a company called Packet Service Inc. It's a very new service, but works extremely well. If anyone wants to know about it please feel free to email me directly.


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## Acer66

*AccountEdge?*

I was just wondering if any of you had tried AccountEdge for your small business?
What do you think?
Thanks


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## Acer66

Have you or anyone else out there tried AccountEdge?
Opinions?
Thanks.


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## tilt

Acer, I downloaded AccountEdge and had a quick look at it. It does not look to be too complicated from the usage POV. It does have a pretty decent idea as to which accounts certain amounts need to go into but if you have some more complex stuff like expenses reimbursement for your employees and stuff, it might help if you had an idea of how to account for those, because AccountEdge has a limited chart of accounts by default. Of course you can expand it.

I do not have any accounting knowledge or even know how certain amounts are to be accounted for, so I have not actually used it extensively. Plus, I have not tested it under heavy load etc., or disaster recovery etc., so my views on this are severely limited.

Cheers

PS: When you post a message and expect a response, I would suggest that you give it some time instead of posting back to back messages every few minutes. People are not online all the time here, plus it's a Monday morning.

PPS: Welcome to EhMac. 

Cheers


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## mapsgirl

I would love a new Quicken for Mac. Any chance of them bringing that back?


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## Joker Eh

mapsgirl said:


> I would love a new Quicken for Mac. Any chance of them bringing that back?


There is a new Quicken Essentials for Mac but myself I haven't tried it as they don't have a demo verison for me to try.

Quicken® Essentials for Mac Personal Finance Software - Mac Financial Software


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## mapsgirl

Joker Eh said:


> There is a new Quicken Essentials for Mac but myself I haven't tried it as they don't have a demo verison for me to try.
> 
> Quicken® Essentials for Mac Personal Finance Software - Mac Financial Software


Unfortunately, I need to track small business and personal expenses. And I need to create invoices. Essentials doesn't seem to do the business side of things.


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## screature

mapsgirl said:


> Unfortunately,* I need to track small business and personal expenses. And I need to create invoices.* Essentials doesn't seem to do the business side of things.


Well then you need* Quickbooks* not Quicken... Quicken is to track finances and investments *not* for expenses and business invoicing i.e., accounting.


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## mapsgirl

screature said:


> Well then you need* Quickbooks* not Quicken... Quicken is to track finances and investments *not* for expenses and business invoicing i.e., accounting.


I am currently running Qucken Home and Business on my PC and it is exactly what I need. It's just not available for Mac.

If I could get a Mac version, then I could get rid of the PC.


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## screature

mapsgirl said:


> I am currently running Qucken Home and Business on my PC and it is exactly what I need. It's just not available for Mac.
> 
> If I could get a Mac version, then I could get rid of the PC.


Well then just get Parallels of VMware Fusion and run Windows virtually on your Mac, it will probably cost you less than accounting software for the Mac. Must be a new development in Quicken to run business accounting because you never could in the years I had it , but I found it to be relatively useless and have been using Quickbooks for years.


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## mapsgirl

screature said:


> Well then just get Parallels of VMware Fusion and run Windows virtually on your Mac, it will probably cost you less than accounting software for the Mac. Must be a new development in Quicken to run business accounting because you never could in the years I had it , but I found it to be relatively useless and have been using Quickbooks for years.


It works great for being self-employed and monitoring business and personal accounts.

Home Business Software for Financial Planning & Investments | Quicken® Home & Business 2011

If there were employees, then it probably wouldn't be good enough.


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## screature

I just checked out the version of Quicken you have. It definitely wasn't available back in the day when I was looking for small business software. Quicken was only for tracking Finances and Investments back then. This Home and Small business version is a major improvement over what used to be available.

Anyway look at using virtualization software then you can still drop the PC.


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## Performa

Joker Eh said:


> There is a new Quicken Essentials for Mac but myself I haven't tried it as they don't have a demo verison for me to try.
> 
> Quicken® Essentials for Mac Personal Finance Software - Mac Financial Software


I've been a user of Quicken dating back to my first mac in 1997. I've upgraded over the years when I would get a new copy bundled with my mac when it was time to upgrade machines. I've still been using Quicken 2006 up until my recent Lion upgrade. Now I have to make a decision.... Do I upgrade to Quicken Essentials ($49.99), or try something different like iBank ($59.99).

Has anyone tried Quicken Essentials? How does it compare to their older versions (I've been extremely happy with Quicken 2006)? How about iBank? I'm thinking I'll stick with Quicken, as I'm sure it will have a better chance of importing my 14 years of account data than a totally different program even though Intuit doesn't have the greatest record with their Mac products.


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## pm-r

If the last and latest supported Quicken for Mac still seems to work for many users, why not just keep the older Mac and its Mac OS that supports it, and use it for one's Quicken use??? It's value is no doubt cheaper than any recent "upgrade" version(s) would cost.

Just like Mum and Dad and any kid's vehicles, from sport cars to hockey/soccer hauling SUVs and maybe even a heavy hauling truck thrown in, as each one has a particular use — even if it maybe 10-20 years old, or older.

Just use what works. Or am I missing something??? Hmm...???


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## tilt

I came across a solution recently - Wave Accounting.

Pros:

It is aimed at Canadian users
It does HST, GST, PST, etc., including taking care of claiming back HST from the government
It handles multiple companies
It also handles multiple personal accounts
It makes it easy to reconcile personal vs. business expenses, especially for one-man companies where one usually pays for business expenses from a personal bank account or cash or personal credit card etc.
It tracks partial and full payments to invoices, both incoming and outgoing
It works with Canadian banks, downloading transactions and tries to automatically match them to the business's transactions to balance the books
If you are a complete accounting novice like me, they do have certified pros who would help out on a paid basis
It is completely free and the developers have committed that it shall be free indefinitely. It is ad-supported, but the ads are completely non-intrusive and do not have to be clicked. They get paid for just displaying the ads, and if you do click and buy from the advertiser, Wave gets some more money

Cons:

It is online.

Cheers


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## Joker Eh

tilt said:


> I came across a solution recently - Wave Accounting.
> 
> Pros:
> 
> It is aimed at Canadian users
> It does HST, GST, PST, etc., including taking care of claiming back HST from the government
> It handles multiple companies
> It also handles multiple personal accounts
> It makes it easy to reconcile personal vs. business expenses, especially for one-man companies where one usually pays for business expenses from a personal bank account or cash or personal credit card etc.
> It tracks partial and full payments to invoices, both incoming and outgoing
> It works with Canadian banks, downloading transactions and tries to automatically match them to the business's transactions to balance the books
> If you are a complete accounting novice like me, they do have certified pros who would help out on a paid basis
> It is completely free and the developers have committed that it shall be free indefinitely. It is ad-supported, but the ads are completely non-intrusive and do not have to be clicked. They get paid for just displaying the ads, and if you do click and buy from the advertiser, Wave gets some more money
> 
> Cons:
> 
> It is online.
> 
> Cheers


This works just like Mint.com it looks like. The one difference is that Wave apparently lets you also import your bank statements if you like I are not comformatable with an online company have access to your bank account. IMHO not a good idea. But letting you import them is a one up on Mint.

The only problem though is when I am not connected I would like to look at my finances to do analysis.


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## Oakbridge

Sorry I have been using the Tapatalk iPad app to log into ehMac the past few weeks and somehow I missed this thread. I've just finished reading through it and I'd like to make some comments. Not in any order:



CoderMummy said:


> I myself am looking for something to replace Simply Accounting. I'm trying to become completely Windows-Free as well for utter convenience and elimination of constant file sharing networking issues.
> 
> I've recently tried and chosen to try the Billings App and absolutely love it. If you operate a service based business like I do, this app is the best thing that happened to the Mac. From what I've experienced so far, while it tracks time and creates invoices beautifully, It appears to lack in the advanced accounting functions that you would find in Quickbooks or Simply Accounting.
> 
> So while it is not a total replacement... yet... I am now doing all of my client invoicing in Billings, then monthly I enter Billings Invoices into Simply Accounting along with my expense chits... taking me down from having to use Simply on a daily basis to only 12 times a year.
> 
> For now, I can live with that!


If you find that the number of invoices increases dramatically, or for those who have more invoices each month or who are looking for a greater integration, there is Billings Pro. It will integrate directly with MoneyWorks.



Sonal said:


> There's no way my workplace will move to MoneyWorks... even just upgrading Quickbooks was such a pain. (And given the slowness and bloat, we're not totally sure if it was worth it, but downgrading is just not possible.)
> 
> But for me personally, seeing as I have to change, it might be worthwhile.
> 
> Oh dear, you know life is a little sad when you have to play with accounting software....


There was a quote in The West Wing talking about Social Security being the third rail of American Politics, nobody wanted to go near it because if you did, you could 'die'. Well accounting software could be labeled as the third rail of small business software.

Part of the problem is that there are two schools of thought when it comes to accounting software. If you have heard some of the radio ads that were floating around the Toronto area a month or so ago, you'd swear that using QuickBooks for Windows was as easy as crossing the street: every small business owner could manage their own books and NEVER need a bookkeeper or an accountant. They put the glossy user interface on something and try to hide the General Ledger from the end user. Make a mistake? Oh we'll just let you delete that transaction and poof it is gone. BTW, we won't keep any kind of messy audit trail to let others know that you keep messing up.

Of course the other school of thought is that accounting should be taken seriously and only be done by people that have least have a basic idea of what they are doing. These types of people know that if you make a mistake, you need to show that you made a mistake. That audit trails are a good thing. 

On the Windows platform this is a huge Simply vs. QuickBooks argument. Many accountants don't want their clients using anything but Simply because it doesn't allow the user to do things like delete transactions. 

One of the other problems with accounting software is that it rarely changes. It's difficult to get excited because there are few if any new features that could be introduced that will knock anyone's socks off. So it like that cousin that nobody in the family wants to talk about. You also find that new versions are released 'just cause', not because there is anything of substance in the new release.

It's also one of the most difficult pieces of software to convert to and from. We advise our clients not to try to convert, but to find a way to keep the old system on one computer (or store the data file and software in a safe place) just so they can reference it when they need to. An alternative would be to print out a package of reports, profit/loss, trial balances, etc. and store that. Then run the new system from a starting point, i.e. the beginning of an accounting period. Be honest, how often do you need to look at data from previous years when you are recording entries in this year, unless it is a comparison type report (i.e. this period vs. last year same period). That could be done in a spreadsheet for the first year you're on a new system.

Beware software that claims to be cross platform. Most are, some are but with a big catch. Even if you got a hold of QB for Mac from the US. It is not really cross platform with the US Windows version. You can save a version to be sent to a Windows user, but it is a copy of the database file. So it's like you're doing a Save as... sending it to them, then if they open and make changes and send it back to you, you do an equivalent to Import... and you can't both have the data file open at the same time.

MoneyWorks can have two machines on different platforms open the same database file at the same time (Gold and Datacentre). I believe that AccountEdge can do the same. We have a preference towards MoneyWorks because it has developed plugins that work with FileMaker. We've developed solutions in FM that talk directly with MW. 

keebler27 mentioned that the Daylite - AccountEdge link works well for them. It works well for many businesses but there are some types of businesses that it works better for than others. 

If I can make any suggestions, talk to someone who knows business software about your specific requirements first. Preferably someone that knows more than just one or two pieces of software. There may be other things to consider when making your purchase. I know that some of you will cringe at the suggestion, but you need to think about an information solutions strategy for your business. Even if you're a one person shop. Think of it as the same as the 'measure twice, cut once' rule. 

When someone contacts us about Daylite, or FileMaker, or MoneyWorks I'll typically stop the conversation early from anything specific about the application, and ask them for more of a general description of how they are handling the information in their businesses. Here's an idea of four questions we ask:

- What are you using now?
- What is working for you?
- What isn't working for you?
- What is your vision for how things will look?

The what are you using now is important because we want to get a sense of where they are coming from. It makes a difference if they are using a bunch of spreadsheets to track data, vs. an existing package that they want to convert from. This should be a complete list (i.e. not just what you are looking to replace, but the other pieces that it might need to work with). There may be something that isn't part of the immediate concern that needs to be considered. 

The what is working for you is important because we don't want to lose that. We don't want to suggest or introduce something that is going to take away something that is already working well. Maybe you've got a bunch of Blackberries and you're under contract and the users are happy with them. Obviously you don't want to be looking at a solution that has a wonderful iPhone app for it but not one for the Blackberry. Whenever possible we want to find ways to compliment what is working now. However the truth is that most time we ask this question, the answer is... nothing! 

The what isn't working for you is usually where the person is focused. Sometimes to the point where they have blinders on and when we dig deep, we find that there are few things that are actually working well. Again the answer to this question is quite often... everything!

The vision question is often the most difficult one to get people to answer. It's Christmastime as I type this. Think of A Charlie Brown's Christmas. Schroeder at the piano, Lucy listening to him and she asks if he could play Jingle Bells. His initial two attempts are not what Lucy envisioned. What Lucy finally liked was not close to what Schroeder felt was Jingle Bells. 



Sonal said:


> At my workplace, I use QuickBooks on Windows very heavily. I confess that I love it, well, as much as anyone can love accounting software. In fact, the books for my other companies are on the computers at my workplace so that I can use QuickBooks.
> 
> I actually really hate this MYOB-like thing I currently use. Find it clunky and awkward. It's just annoying to switch but it looks like the time has come.
> 
> ...
> 
> I did a search and turned up not too much. A few people recommend MoneyWorks, but I know nothing about it. A quick look at the website reveals that it looks reasonable, how is it for a QuickBooks user to get used to?
> 
> If anyone knows anything, I would appreciate hearing it.


Which brings me around to the original poster. What is it about QuickBooks on Windows that you 'love'. What is it about MYOB that you hate?

As for the "how is it for a QuickBooks user to get used to?" question, that's a definite matter of personal opinion. Your version of 'Jingle Bells' might be totally different than mine.


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## Oakbridge

QuickBooksCanada said:


> Currently we support any software we produce for 3 years. That is our sunsetting window due to the great cost of keeping reps trained on older operating systems and older versions of QuickBooks. The software that is soon to be released will be a web based version of QuickBooks and not a true Mac desktop version. We will support it for all users, regardless of operating system, as long as your work station meets the system requirements.


I had to respond to this separately, as it is a response that is directed at Intuit.

Here's an idea. Stop releasing a new version of software simply because the date on the calendar changes. I don't know of any other software developer that releases new versions on a 'calendar' basis like Simply and QuickBooks. Most developers release new versions on an 18-24 month cycle. 

For example, FileMaker is currently at version 11. They have just recently announced that as of September 27th, 2012, version 9 will reach 'end of life'. That means no upgrade price, no support, etc. That will be 5 years after version 9 was released. Not the 3 years that you continue to support software for. 

As for your 'research' numbers, it boils down to this. You abandoned what you felt was a sinking Mac platform back in 2001. Now because that platform is healthy, you have decided to try to jump back on the bandwagon. But you're not jumping on with both feet, you're doing a 'half' jump by releasing a web app. Does this mean that you're going to discontinue your Windows version of QuickBooks and have all of those users go to the web version as well?

SAAS has not been the success story that many developers thought (or wanted). Many people want their data on their own machines. Intuit Canada's investment in this 'Mac' solution is next to nothing. You're developing this same app to offer to your Windows clients. There won't be anything in the 'Mac' version that will be any different other than testing to make sure that it runs under Safari.

You may see this as criticism from someone involved in the competition, but this is speaking from the heart of a former Intuit user who was treated like garbage when Intuit Canada dropped QuickBooks, Quicken, and Quicktax and said goodbye to the Mac platform.


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## Performa

Just noticed this important info on Intuit's website:
"You can easily import your data from Quicken 2005, 2006 or 2007 into Quicken Essentials for Mac. Just be sure you upgrade and transfer your data on your current operating system. It will not import on Lion."

So for someone like me who jumped the gun and did the Lion update already, I'm out of luck unless I can convert my data on a non-Lion machine with Quicken Essentials. I'm really leaning towards iBank now!


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## pm-r

Thanks for that info that I'm sure many Mac OS Lion upgraders might have missed.

I'm guessing it's due to Apple's Lion OS omission of Rosetta and any such support that killed any such option, which they killed and no longer support, and way too soon IMHO for many pre Mac OS X lion users.


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## monokitty

pm-r said:


> ...which they killed and no longer support, and way too soon IMHO for many pre Mac OS X lion users.


Consumers have had since 2006 to upgrade their software to Intel-native apps and developers are to blame if they took too long, or didn't bother at all, converting pre-existing software to support Intel processors. If anything, Apple has been generous in waiting until Lion to kill off support for Rosetta.


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## jpg178

*MoneyWorks does it work???*

I went through the same problem when I switched to mac. Ended up buying moneyworks and has been a HUGE learning curve. The set up for Canada is week and support is very poor from this company. With that said, buying the Gold vs and not being able to send it back we have worked through some of the issues and have it working great for us but would switch if we could find one that spoke the same language that our accountant (PC users) could use.

Moneyworks says they'll send a "free" copy to your accountant but it been over 2 years and it still has not arrived. 

The other problem I have is I cannot upgrade to Loin until I pay another $XXX.00 bill for the upgrade from snow leopard. After the first touch for this program I'm not sure it is worth the hassle or possible the new learning curve. My suggestion is too find something else unless you like something challenging.


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