# Scooters on the brain



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I want one...But I still can't decide on which one to get,
It's a toss up between the Yamaha 4 stroke Cubed or the Yamaha 2 stroke BW 50.

I didn't like the look of the Vino Classic, The Vino 125 is interesting but I really don't need a 125.

Anyone happy with the BW 50?

This is the last year that I'll be able to buy the 2 stroke scooter because it won't be sold in Canada in 2007.

Decisions decisions...

Links:
Yamaha Cubed:
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2007models/2007models-Yamaha-XF50-CCubed-C3.htm
http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/

Yamaha BW 50:
http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/

Yamaha Vino "Classic"
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2007models/2007models-Yamaha-Vino.htm

Yamaha Vino 125:
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2007models/2007models-Yamaha-Vino125.htm

Dave


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

The Yamaha Cubed would get my vote Dave, but hell, it's gonna be YOUR ride, so ride it like you like it!


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## overkill (May 15, 2005)

Vino for me


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## Willy Z (Oct 25, 2004)

The BW has been around for a looooooong time, about 10 years, if not more !

now, you want a scooter...me too, but what would use it for ?

to commute to work? take the 125 cc as the BW 50 cc won't be allowesd on the highway.

by the way, the BW is a plain machine, that may be a bit small (I'm 1.82 m and don't sit comfortably on it).

the fact that's a 50 Cc allows it to be extremly customized (enginewise speaking).

Check the site Malossi.com and bidalot.fr (in Frenh only, though they have among the best exhaust on the market) check also POLINI.com


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## The Great Waka (Nov 26, 2002)

I too have been looking at these (although my purchase looks like next year). I like the look of the C Cubed as well, and storage is important, as this would be my primary vehicle. However, are the any two-seater 50CCs? Or don't they have the pull for it?

Now, a question for those you know that know of these things: I currently don't have a license of any kind, and I am in the under-25 male insurance bracket. Would insurance be cheap if I just got a M license with the L restriction (restricting me to 50CCs and under?). I mean, I'd be really unlikely to speed if I physically can't right? Or does it make a difference? Otherwise, I'll probably be starting my G license this year, and start the M when I can buy one of these.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Well it's only about 12 km's to work and the highway route using the 401 collectors
looks extremely dangerous for those Vino 125's 10" wheels, The expansion joints
and the big transport trucks would be my main concern, Nevermind all the cars
that like to weave from lane to lane.

The BW gets excellent mileage and would only cost me about $5.00 a week for gas,
There is also a rumour that a 4 stroke BW50 might make a debut next year,
Not 100% sure though that this will happen, But the BW50 is a very hot seller in the U.S.

The BW has nice big tires and a disc brake in the front and can carry more under
the seat, Besides the fact that you could carry a passenger as well, Albeit a small one.

The C Cubed doesn't have a rear carrier and the single seat looks confining for a person in the 6'-1" range,
Also the under seat storage won't hold a full face helmut compared to the BW50 which will hold a full
face helmut under the seat.
Also the floor boards on the C Cubed look higher and more confining for the feet than the BW50.

BTW...I have a G.M. drivers licence



Dave


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## Willy Z (Oct 25, 2004)

For a 12 km ride, I would go with a Vespa.

The 10" wheels aren't an issue at all ( I was driving 125 km/h on those)

The BW's fork sucked !!! I don't know if they've replaced it or not, but do take it if it still uses the mechanical one (springs only). 
The best forks you'll ever find are the Vespa one. They're mono-arm but will prevent the scooter from swinging forward should you need to brake strongly.

A 4 stroke is more environment friendly...but not as fun as those 2 strokes 50cc ;-)

And finally, look at all the carrier in Europe, most of them use the very reliable Vespa.
the BW is a toy, it isn't as safe in windy condition as a bigger and heavier scooter.


BTW, I'm from France and have been playing, tweaking, customizing and fixing and racing those machines for quiet some times.

This is very similar to the one I used to ride
http://www.mikegt.net/schede.php


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

You probably know I'm a Vespa guy, and would recommend those first, but since it's not my money, I'll keep my mouth shut.

Those BeeWizzs are fast for a 50cc, I used to ride on a Vespa 90, and I would get past by the bws, there are also a tonne of tuning options for the bws (Puma in the US). If you want it, go for it. My opinion, get something bigger, a 50 will bore you since you already have a motorcycle license.
That cubed sure looks cool, didn't even know about it until you mentioned it. It looks like the bastard child of an old Series 1 Lambretta, and Lambretta Cento. But I checked out the specs, and it's a 4 stroke. Do you really want a 4 stroke engine?
My opinion, step up to something bigger. My girlfriend want s a Vino herself, and she's sat on both the 50 and 125, she's about 5'6" and thinks the Vino 50 is too small for her. The 125 is a nice size, I went riding with a bunch of Moderns a few weeks ago, and the pack leader was riding with his wife on the back of a mildly tuned Vino 125, he might have just topped out at 80 km/h with a pillion, but that's not bad for a 4 stroke 125.

Also take a look at the Piaggio (makers of Vespa) Fly 150 piaggiocanada.com/pscooters/fly150.cfm#nowhere, a bit more than a 125 Vino, but they're nice, big engine, nice design, not as pricey as a Vespa, but uses the same L.E.A.D.E.R. engine.
http://piaggiocanada.com/pimages/fly150_lrg.jpg[/imgl]

If cost is an issue, take a look at PGO. [url]http://www.pgoscooters.ca[/url] They're a Chinese manufacturer, but don't let that scare you off they've been around forever, they used to make Vespa clones in the 80s, but started they're own designs when that contract was over. In the US, there's a company called Genuine Scooters, and it was started by a guy who started Scooterworks in Chicago in the early 90s and he basically kept the scooter community together when they're was none. They unfortunately sell a beautiful scooter called the Buddy that's only available in the US, and it's a PGO scooter, so if it's good enough for them to import to sell to the US market, then PGO definitely has a good reputation.

Another maker to look out for in Kymco [url]http://www.becomotors.com[/url]. Again we don't get all the cool stuff that the Yanks get, but they're a pretty good maker from Taiwan who just entered the NA market a few years ago, they've been in business for over 50 years, so no worries.

Both these 2 Asian manufacturers both have extensive dealer networks, so getting parts and service shouldn't be an issue like Pertutti scooters that Doc Leathers sell and Cronos (Are actually rebadged Kymco, but nobody will work on them)

vince


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

The Great Waka said:


> I too have been looking at these (although my purchase looks like next year). I like the look of the C Cubed as well, and storage is important, as this would be my primary vehicle. However, are the any two-seater 50CCs? Or don't they have the pull for it?
> 
> Now, a question for those you know that know of these things: I currently don't have a license of any kind, and I am in the under-25 male insurance bracket. Would insurance be cheap if I just got a M license with the L restriction (restricting me to 50CCs and under?). I mean, I'd be really unlikely to speed if I physically can't right? Or does it make a difference? Otherwise, I'll probably be starting my G license this year, and start the M when I can buy one of these.


If you want a passenger, get something bigger, some 50's have a passenger seat, but it's very cramped with a passenger, you want something bigger, and some are legal to have a passenger, think Vespas have a passenger seat.

The thing about the insurance, the best thing to do is call up some agents, lmk if you need some numbers to motorcycle insurance friendly agents. Also not from first hand experience, just questions posted on the toronto Yahoo group, but somebody called and got a shock at what insurance was, and asked why, and they told them, they believed that an ML license holder doesn't have the same rider confidence as somebody holding a M license.

My suggestions go for the full M class instead, you might not be able to afford a bigger scooter right now, but maybe in a couple years you want something bigger or a motorcycle, you can just upgrade without having to worry about your license, or redoing a test again. You're paying the same price either way if you go through a proper rider training program, when your ready for your exit test, you'll probably be riding something bigger anyways, and scooters can do the test, since I did mine on my Vespa P200.

vince


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## DoNotPokeTheScreen (Jun 9, 2005)

What are some firms that offer motorcycle insurance to people under 25 with M1/2 license? I called up RBC, my home and auto insurance company, and they told me to call them back in 7 years, when I'm 25. :/


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

scootsandludes said:


> The thing about the insurance, the best thing to do is call up some agents, lmk if you need some numbers to motorcycle insurance friendly agents. Also not from first hand experience, just questions posted on the toronto Yahoo group, but somebody called and got a shock at what insurance was, and asked why, and they told them, they believed that an ML license holder doesn't have the same rider confidence as somebody holding a M license.
> 
> My suggestions go for the full M class instead, you might not be able to afford a bigger scooter right now, but maybe in a couple years you want something bigger or a motorcycle, you can just upgrade without having to worry about your license, or redoing a test again. You're paying the same price either way if you go through a proper rider training program, when your ready for your exit test, you'll probably be riding something bigger anyways, and scooters can do the test, since I did mine on my Vespa P200.
> 
> vince


What's an ML licence, I've never heard of it,
I have a Class G.M. licence that I got back when I was 19 years old (In the 70's)
Well not quite, I got my Class G at 19 years of age and then my Class M at 21 years of age.

Dave


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

ML mean Motorcycle LImited is the new license just introduced in Ontario for people who just want to ride mopeds and Limited speed Step through motorcycles up to 50cc with an automatic (CVT) transmission, and your only limited to that. While people who have a M license like yourself can ride anything on 2 wheels. Official information is on the MTO website. Nothing to think about if you already have a M license. It was introduced because new scooter riders kept complaining about how they were never gonna move up to anything bigger, and therefore could never qualify to take the M2 exit test, since 50cc scooters could never keep up with highway traffic on 400 series highways and the DVP.

vince


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

DoNotPokeTheScreen said:


> What are some firms that offer motorcycle insurance to people under 25 with M1/2 license? I called up RBC, my home and auto insurance company, and they told me to call them back in 7 years, when I'm 25. :/


That depends on the kind of bike you want. If you're 18 and looking at an SS bike (anything with with an "R" in it's name) Good Luck, there aren't too many insurance company that will even consider you, but I hear Statefarm will insure almost anybody, you just need to find something else to insure, you could add on Life Insurance, which won't be to bad for a 18 y/o.
But if you're under 25 and get a small bike like a scooter, or a 250 or 500cc motorcycle, more companies will open the door for you, it might be just a crack, but it's available. Basic rule is the slower the bike, the better chance you'll get insurance. Try www.gtamotorcycle.com, they have a forum for insurance with a lot of questions you want answered already there. (note: those not work with safari, use firefox or something else)

I get my insurance from John R. Duffy and they use Jevco for motorcycles. I pay $276/yr on my Vespa, but I also have 6 years experience and am 30. I got my license when I was 24 and went with Riders Plus, until they dropped me because they didn't want to insure vintage motorcycles anymore, back then I paid close to $500. They also don't insure anyone under 25.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

I had a 99 BWs back in first year of college, 50cc is not bad but I'm guessing after awhile if it is your primary vehicle you will eventually have a need for speed which is why I'm planning to get a Vespa GTS 250 next year after I get my bike license. The nice thing about the BWs was that it's one of the more powerful 50cc scoots out there and there are tons of aftermarket upgrades available, such as removing the restrictor, change of exhaust, etc. that can push your speed well above the 60 limit, mine you I didn't bother. On flat land with no winds I'd be going 62km/h, on 6% grades uphill I would drop down to 48km/h, 8% grade around 40km/h, going down a 6% grade I went around 80km/h, that was FUN! It was definitely a fun scoot with plenty of room, rugged looks, the big tires helped plenty, and I was still able to go around 58km/h when I carried a passenger. (Myself, I'm 90kg, passenger was 55kg). The front disc brake on the BWs saved my arse one time, although they (and the big tires) prove useless in icy/snowy conditions, I almost became a rear bumper sticker for the minivan when snow suddenly started falling while I was going down Mariner Road in Coquitlam. The limited speed was still able to get me to not too faraway places like Harrison Hot Springs and Abbotsford although I was riding on the white line that separated the general lane and the shoulder unless there was a hazard up ahead.

One thing to note, the 2 strokes are very powerful for their engine size but they waste a bit more gas, I got anywhere between 19-25km per litre on my BWs, the 4 stroke Vino and Jazz (50cc) gets better gas mileage.

And again I state, if it is going to be your primary vehicle, choose something with the speeds you want.

50cc - 60km/h (urban, or the shoulder of suburban 2-laners)
125cc - 80km/h (suburban 2-lane highways)
200cc - 110km/h (highways)
250cc - 120km/h
400cc - 140km/h
650cc - 160km/h (death will hopefully be painless above this point)


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## jdurston (Jan 28, 2005)

My brother has a 50cc 4 stroke Honda scooter that he has extensively modified to do 80km/hr.

The 2 stroke BW should be much easier to modify and get substantially more speed to match or exceed the 125cc 4 stroke. Just start searching for BW big bore kits and exhaust kits.

If your not someone who will modify then go with a 125 or 250 model, they're a good compromise in power. Anything less and you'll eventually be frustrated.

Some people don't mind the small scooters though. My brother mentioned above drove his scooter from Ottawa to Waterloo in the beginning of March before it was modified, so all he could do was 60km/hr. It took him 12 hours, half of which was at night. He's crazy.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I've had a Honda 250 cc Elite scooter in the past before I moved up to a BMW 650,
I've since sold those bikes years ago and now just need basic transportation to work,
I'm not interested in driving on the highway, Except maybe the Bayview extension.
The BW or the C Cubed look like the best option for my needs, I just have to check them out at a dealership this weekend.

Yamaha has a credit card that allows you to make a purchase with their card for bikes under $3000.
I'll have to see into that.

In anycase, I'll have to sit on them first to make up my mind.

Dave


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## SkyHook (Jan 23, 2001)

>


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

SkyHook said:


> How did you like the BMW650 for commuting?
> 
> They have a model coming referred to as a sport-tour, basically a pretty 650 with hard bags.


The BMW that I had was a 1984 boxer twin R65,
When the gas tank was full I found it to feel a little top heavy but other than that it
was a great communter bike.
The only thing I didn't like about it was it didn't have a backup kick starter,
Having to bump start that bike was no fun when the battery died.

Dave


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

The only problem I can forsee with the BW50 is the hill climbing ability of Pottery road which is very
steep and I'm pretty sure that the BW50 won't be able to keep up to a traffic speed going up the hill.

I'm thinking that I'll need either the Vino 125 or the TW200 dual purpose bike,
Another thing that bothers me about the small wheels of a scooter is the ability of
anti steering, Can a scooter achieve fast thinking avoidance like a bigger wheeled
motorcycle can? (Street car tracks and railway tracks bother me as well)

I do want a kick and an electric start though and most of the newer bigger bikes
including the TW200 seem to only have an electric start.

Unfortunately I don't think I'd get free parking with the TW200.

U.S. site with TW200 specs:
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelhome/10/home.aspx

Dave


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

dolawren said:


> The only problem I can forsee with the BW50 is the hill climbing ability of Pottery road which is very
> steep and I'm pretty sure that the BW50 won't be able to keep up to a traffic speed going up the hill.
> 
> I'm thinking that I'll need either the Vino 125 or the TW200 dual purpose bike,
> ...


You mean counter steer right? Counter steering usually occurs on anything with 2 wheels above 20 km/h. I do it all the time on my 10" wheels. With the smaller wheels, you actually have better handling, you be surprised how well a scooter handles. Crashing on a scooter is not unheard of because of street cars and tar snakes. One of my friends crashed his Lambretta a few years back from the tracks, and I saw a wrecked Vespa at one of the shops that was getting repaired from changing lanes the wrong way on scooter. Same rules apply to motorcycle, take the track at 45 degrees and you'll be fine.

The free parking applies to both scooters AND motorcycles. You just have to park the bike at a 45 degrees angle, while scooters are usually okay at a 90 since they are so much smaller than motorcycle. Word of Caution though, cagers have been known to move your bike. I was at the Eaton Centre a few weeks ago, and there was another Vespa parked beside mine, and my girlfriend was riding pillion with me, so they assumed the other Vespa was hers, and I told them no it's not ours, they asked if we could move it so they could park. I politely told them no, it's not my property, I don't have the right to touch it. Well they tried to squeeze their SUV into a 5' spot, I of course stay as long as I could to make sure they weren't gonna move it, and lucky for them another spot opened up. So you gotta be careful about this free parking business, some Jerk Off, might try to move your bike, and end up dropping it, and how much will that cost you, chances are they'll run too.

vince


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## SkyHook (Jan 23, 2001)

>


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

dolawren said:


> The only problem I can forsee with the BW50 is the hill climbing ability of Pottery road which is very
> steep and I'm pretty sure that the BW50 won't be able to keep up to a traffic speed going up the hill.


dolawren, up one steep hill (8%) on a section of Clarke Road in Coquitlam I was able to manage 40km/h... and i passed a propane fired pickup truck once. On a really really steep grade in White Rock which was at 25% (the sidewalk was a very long staircase from the top to the bottom of the hill) I think I was able to manage 25km/h. Then for fun I went down the hill and climbed it again. There are kits you can install in the BW 50 to improve torque (for climbing hills) at the expense of top speed.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I inquired about a 1980 Honda C70 Passport scooter and talked to the seller today
but I think the bike would require too much of my time to get it road worthy.

I'd love to have it but I really want a bike that is newer like the Vino 125,
I'm going to try to get over to Cycleworld or Snow City this weekend.
(I used to have a new 1982 Honda C70 Passport scooter, I sold it in 1983)

I'll take a long hard look at the Vino 125 while I'm there.
(The BW50 too  )

Dave


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

dona83 said:


> dolawren, up one steep hill (8%) on a section of Clarke Road in Coquitlam I was able to manage 40km/h... and i passed a propane fired pickup truck once. On a really really steep grade in White Rock which was at 25% (the sidewalk was a very long staircase from the top to the bottom of the hill) I think I was able to manage 25km/h. Then for fun I went down the hill and climbed it again. There are kits you can install in the BW 50 to improve torque (for climbing hills) at the expense of top speed.


That's something that would bother me, Pottery road is a steep hill and it's busy,
I'd have to keep up to traffic speed or risk getting pushed off the road.

Thanks for the info.

Dave


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I went to Snow City Cycles today and sat on the Vino 125 and found that there
wasn't much room for my size 14 feet, I may have to rethink my options here.
(BTW they only had 2 Vino 125's left in the whole store, No BW50's left)

I'm going to go to Cycle World tomorrow and look at some other bikes then
perhaps I'll check out the Vespa scooters at Motoretta in the Beach.

Cheers

Dave


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Get the Vespa!! GET THE VESPA!!! 

Vespas are to scooters as Macs are to computers as iPods are to MP3 players as.... 

Hopefully I'll get a Vespa 250 GTS next year... here I come


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

dona83 said:


> Get the Vespa!! GET THE VESPA!!!
> 
> Vespas are to scooters as Macs are to computers as iPods are to MP3 players as....
> 
> Hopefully I'll get a Vespa 250 GTS next year... here I come


I'm not that impressed with the prices for the Vespas, Although I'd love to have a PX150.

The Honda Ruckus looks interesting,

Check out this review on the Honda Ruckus:
http://www.cmgonline.com/articles/CMG03/bikes/Honda/Ruckus/index.html

Dave


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Heh heh...
Want to take your Ruckus for a flying lesson?

http://www.ultralightflyingscooter.com/page6.html

Dave


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

dolawren said:


> Heh heh...
> Want to take your Ruckus for a flying lesson?
> 
> http://www.ultralightflyingscooter.com/page6.html
> ...


I'm gonna pass on that opportunity, thanks anyway Dave.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

SINC said:


> I'm gonna pass on that opportunity, thanks anyway Dave.


Heh...Yea it looks just a tad bit dangerous, 
I'm off to Cycle World in a few minutes, Want to see the Honda Ruckus.

I read that the Yamaha BW can take some time to warm up in the morning,
So I'm not sure if my neighbours would be too happy with me having a 2 stroke warming
up in the early morning hours at about 6:00 a.m.

The 50cc 4 stroke Ruckus on the other hand might make a lot less noise in the morning,
Also I read that if it falls over it is less likely to get any damage,
I just don't like the colour choices for the recent models. (White or White Camo)

Dave


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Just got back from Cycle World and found a few Yamaha BW's there,
Sat on them but found them to be too small for me, I'd have a tough time riding one,

They didn't have any Honda Ruckus 50cc bikes but they had a Honda 250cc Big Ruckus,
I sat on that and it wasn't bad, But it had smallish footboards for the feet,
They felt like they were made for size 12 shoes at the biggest, A big tight for me.
I can't believe that these bikes are made just for small people, Don't they want taller person business?

I'm going to go down to see the Vespa scooters next, Perhaps they'll feel better.


I may have to just get a real motorcycle.

Dave


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

dolawren said:


> I may have to just get a real motorcycle.


Finally, a voice of reason  

Seriously, for what you're going to spend on a new scooter, you can get a good used motorcycle that'll get slightly less gas mileage, more horsepower and more rideability.

Please, if you haven't already, take a rider education course.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

FeXL said:


> Finally, a voice of reason
> 
> Seriously, for what you're going to spend on a new scooter, you can get a good used motorcycle that'll get slightly less gas mileage, more horsepower and more rideability.
> 
> Please, if you haven't already, take a rider education course.


I took a Rider Ecucation course with the Ministry of Transportation back in 1981,
That was just one year before I bought a Honda C70 scooter and then later bought a KZ400.
I miss that KZ400, Best bike I ever owned.

It's a pity that Kawasaki doesn't make a retro version of that bike,
At the moment entry level bikes are few and far between of what I'd like to get.

The Yamaha 250 Virago isn't exactly what I'd want to get, Not even the Yamaha TW 200,
Just not a lot of choices out there in the midrange type of motorcycle.

Having to buy a vintage bike isn't acceptable.

Wished that they sold Royal Enfields in Canada again.

Links:

KZ400:
http://www.kz400.com/HistoryFrameset.html

Royal Enfield:
http://www.royalenfield.com/app/US/default.asp

Honda C70:
http://www.bohemianbrewery.com/scooters/honda.html

Dave


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

As much of a Vespa fan as I am, I'd skip them, they're way over priced for a new one.

Take a look at the Piaggios, they make Vespa, but they're considerably cheaper, the Fly 150, uses the same engine as the Vespa LX 150, but it's way cheaper, and IMO looks better too. You can see them at Motoretta, or any Vespa dealer.

Also look at the PGOs, they sell them at Scooters On Front (500 Front St), you can get a 150 for the price of anything made by Piaggio at 50cc. Probably one of the best values in scootering. They are big too, I'm only 5'8" and when I sat on the 150, I was very comfortable, plenty of room to spare.

vince


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

The newest Buell Blast looks like it has come a long way:
http://www.buell.com/en_ca/bikes/blast/blast/gallery.asp#

It's got a nice upright riding postion, That's the type of bike I think I'd be looking for.

Dave


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Well after a lot of looking around and sitting on a lot of bikes including the Piaggio
Fly at the Vespa dealership today my girlfriend and I decided to buy the Vespa LX 150.

Yes...
We bought a Plum coloured Vespa LX 150 and expect to take delivery next weekend.
(Well the bank is buying it until we pay it off)

I am amazed by this bike, If I had size 16 feet then they'd still fit,
The handle bar turns without touching my knees as well. (The Vino touched my knees)
Also as a bonus...It has a kick and electric starter.

Cheers!

Dave


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

Congrats on the purchase. Hope you enjoy it, and I'll see you on the roads. 

Check out the Yahoo scooter groups, think we're called toronto scooters or something like that, sure you'll find a few groups, but one in particular is more active then the rest.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Congrats!!!! Take pictures! 

(PS my old BWs had electric and kick starter too, I think it's standard on all scoots these days  sometimes I wouldn't have enough power to electric start so I would have to kick start it -- not a problem)


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Not much difference between the two LX scooters, Just weight and power,
However the LX 150 compared to the LX 50 means that my girlfriend will need to
get at least an M1 Motorcycle licence before she can drive it.

Anyone know of a good school for her to take a course?
(I hope it isn't too late in the season)

Dave


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

I took my course with MMIC, now RTI, or ridertraining.ca, I also did my M2X test with them last summer, they have a scooter date too, basically if you have a scooter that doesn't qualify as a LSM vehicle, but probably not a good idea to take on a 400 series, you can get your full M by using the Allen Expressway instead. 

Last I heard, they do the M1X test at the Docks. Good thing about RTI, is if you fail your M2 test, you can come back the next week and try it again for free. I'm sure the college courses are just as good, but I hear you have to pay for a retest if you fail, but you get a tax credit. So depends on what's important to you. Plus RTI is probably closer then any of the other courses.

vince


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

scootsandludes said:


> I took my course with MMIC, now RTI, or ridertraining.ca, I also did my M2X test with them last summer, they have a scooter date too, basically if you have a scooter that doesn't qualify as a LSM vehicle, but probably not a good idea to take on a 400 series, you can get your full M by using the Allen Expressway instead.
> 
> Last I heard, they do the M1X test at the Docks. Good thing about RTI, is if you fail your M2 test, you can come back the next week and try it again for free. I'm sure the college courses are just as good, but I hear you have to pay for a retest if you fail, but you get a tax credit. So depends on what's important to you. Plus RTI is probably closer then any of the other courses.
> 
> vince


That's great, Thanks for the info,
I joined the Ontario Motorcycle Association yesterday and saw that they
recomended the RTI course as well.

Just got approved for a loan today and now we are looking into an insurance broker.

Almost all set for delivery of the scooter on Saturday.

Cheers!

Dave


----------



## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

I'm joining this thread hella l8, but after starting a few of these scooter threads previously, I simply wanted to quickly add that I'm the proudest owner of one!

Derbi Bullet. I attached fotograficas of mine.

I love it. Been riding ever since I got it. I'm just very paranoid of rain and wet ground, but I love the feeling riding this thing. 

Bought it @ Motoretta & got 2 free helmets as part of a promo. That's the next thing that I need to look into: a helmet with great air flow. They get so hot!

Anyhow Dolawren, do it up!

H!


----------



## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

BTW, I love that Buell bike. That model as well as the Honda 599 are the type that i would consider moving to a motorcycle. I love sitting upright.

H!


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Ohenri said:


> I'm joining this thread hella l8, but after starting a few of these scooter threads previously, I simply wanted to quickly add that I'm the proudest owner of one!
> 
> Derbi Bullet. I attached fotograficas of mine.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply Ohenri, Nice photos.
We got 2 helmets for free as well, One full face for me with air flow and a 3/4 for my girlfriend.
I was in there this morning and bought a few accessories,
Bought a floor mat, Scooter cover, Chromed rear rack and an Oxford Trip-Wire lock.
Thinking of getting the alarm system as well.

Too bad there isn't an accessory outlet on the scooter, I'd love to have an iPod
stereo thingy happening on it with speakers on the handlebars, Oh well...Maybe
Apple will jump in and create an iPod-Vespa special edition kit. (heh)

Dave


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I took the Oxford Trip-Wire OF333 lock back after noticing it was a barrel key lock,
I'd much rather have a flat key lock, Wouldn't want anyone trying to pick it with a Bic pen.

I'll have to try to find the Oxford Trip-Wire OF334 lock with flat keys,
Or find a better alternative bike lock.

Next project will be to make an anchor to lock the bike to at the front of our row house.

http://www.oxprod.com/pages/BicLocks.html

Dave


----------



## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

I use a Kryptonite New York chain, it originally came with a barrel lock as well, but Kryptonite exchanged it for me when they got recalled. Picked this up at Sporting Life when I got my first scooter, Word of advice, get the 6' and don't cheap out with the 4' like I did. I'm sure these things are cheaper at bicycle stores.

Congrats to Ohenri on the Derbi, a fine choice. Did you make it out to this year Rally? I think I saw a few Derbi Bullets there.


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

scootsandludes said:


> I use a Kryptonite New York chain, it originally came with a barrel lock as well, but Kryptonite exchanged it for me when they got recalled. Picked this up at Sporting Life when I got my first scooter, Word of advice, get the 6' and don't cheap out with the 4' like I did. I'm sure these things are cheaper at bicycle stores.


Funny how the Vespa saleperson told me that the Kryptonite chain wasn't any good,
Yet was convinced that the barrel keyed Oxford cable lock would be better.

I'll look around in the Bike stores. 

Thanks

Dave


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

dolawren said:


> Too bad there isn't an accessory outlet on the scooter, I'd love to have an iPod
> stereo thingy happening on it with speakers on the handlebars, Oh well...Maybe
> Apple will jump in and create an iPod-Vespa special edition kit. (heh)
> 
> Dave



Haha...I spoke too soon...There is such a thing:



> S.S.S. "Scooter Stereo System" Includes FM radio (does not get good reception on some scooters), Digital LCD display, volume control, 50 watt amp, 2 water proof BLACK loudspeakers with brackets, I-pod/MP3 in jack, also you can plug in your Satellite radio tuner, all the wires you need to install, and FM antenna. Super easy to install and will fit most any scooter with a 12v battery. Finally you can have tunes on your scoot (NO instructions included, but it is plug and play). (SSS1)........$169
> (you may have to drill to mount speakers (will mount to some mirrors) and remove body parts to run wires if you want a clean install)


Found it at:
http://www.scooterwest.com/
under the "For the rider" link on the above website.

Dave


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

For those that are interested in installing their own scooter stereo system,
I found this interesting article on a scooter stereo system for under $100.

http://www.nh-scooters.com/article/articleview/61/1/2/

Links for a ready made system with an iPod:

http://www.scooterworks.com/Stereo_Kit_Stella_and_P_Serie_P4462C204.cfm
http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/22/scooterworks-vespa-stereo-system-with-ipod-dock/

Dave


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

Dave,

Why don't you try these instead http://cgi.ebay.ca/NEW-Helmet-Speak...5QQihZ012QQcategoryZ34284QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem. Probably a better sound without the white noise.

At this year's scooter rally a few weeks ago, the guy who won best custom had a Vino, He converted the storage under the seat into a crazy speaker system, one sub, and maybe some highs, didn't get a good look at it, but it sounded pretty good from where I was. He might have had an amp too, but it all connected to a portable cd player that also sat under the seat, with a wired remote for him to control while riding.

vince


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

scootsandludes said:


> Dave,
> 
> Why don't you try these instead http://cgi.ebay.ca/NEW-Helmet-Speak...5QQihZ012QQcategoryZ34284QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem. Probably a better sound without the white noise.
> 
> vince


I'm not sure if it's legal and if it is then I think it shouldn't be,
I'd rather have open air speakers on my scooter.

I was thinking of rigging up some speakers using velcro on the glove box,
Then I can put them into the glove box when the Vespa is parked.

Dave


----------



## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

Dave,
Did you get your bike yet? I'm organizing a ride for Saturday on to_scooters in the yahoo groups, it looks like we're taking a ride out west to burlington and we're taking off around noon, if you have your scoot, you should come ride with us to break her in. Also, the invitation is open to anybody with a scooter and everyone is more than welcome to join us. So either reply back here if you're interested or pm me, and I'll give you details as we make them up.

vince


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I'm getting the bike tomorrow, Probably around noon,
Still have to get the deal finalized, Payment and plates etc,
Insurance is done though.

I'm still looking for a decent anchor to attach the bike to and a good lock.

Dave


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

We'll if you get it earlier, I'm heading down to Mr. Christies parking lot on the Lakeshore meet up at noon. I'm coming from the east. Maybe I'll ride by Motoretta in the beaches (that's where you're getting it from right?). If you see a guy on grey Vespa P-range, don't be shy.

A good lock is not hard to find, an anchor could be a different story, no advice for an anchor, unless you want to make your own. You should get a cover too. Some reason, thieves move on when there's a cover. Don't buy it from Motoretta though, not that they're a rip off or anything like that, the one they sell says Vespa right on it, cool in a garage, but if you're trying to hide it, you don't need to advertise what you're hiding. Try crappy tire, or that place that start with W. Some people have been known to use a BBQ cover too.

vince


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I'll have a lot of running around to do after I get the bike...

I'll need to go to either Rona or Home Depot to find something to use as an anchor,
Then I'll have to dig a hole in the front lawn, Pour some cement and then sink in an anchor.

Next I've got to get a disc lock and then try to find the New York 5'-6" Chain lock.

Also I'll need to find a decent pair of gloves, I already have a motorcycle jacket
that I used to wear back in the 70's (Really heavy leather, Heh...It still fits).
Although Scooterwest.com has a really nice leather jacket with reflective strips for $169. usd
Image of their jacket:
http://www.scooterwest.com/adpics5/sxappealjacket1.jpg

Manufacturers link:
http://www.sxappeal.com/accessories.html

I bought a rear chromed folding rack, A bike cover and floor mat from Motoretta,
They assured me that the cover is just plain grey with no logo or name on it.
(I'll have to double check that before I take it home)

They offered a sidestand last weekend when we made the deal, But they are out
of stock and said to bring the bike back at a later date to get it installed.
(I think it was a freebee, Not sure now though)

Cheers!

Dave


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

Kryptonite's got a new chain that's even stronger than the NY chain, called "Fuggetabotit", the NY in a 4 sided link, the Fuggetabotit is 6 sided. They should include the disc lock (well mine did anyways)

I wear the Corazzo jacket, but it's not leather, it's the most popular jacket among scooterist, and sold at Motoretta, metroscoot.com, link seems to be down at the moment, a few people praise the jacket after they had an accident, and it holds up real well, even after a fall, they said the jacket was still in good condition.
The company is based in Portland OR, but the jacket is made in Canada, by scooterist for scooterist. 

But best of luck with finding everything today. Hope you were able to get some sleep last night , and we'll see you on the road.

vince


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Hi Vince,

I got the Kryptonite 5' chain something with lock at CyclePath (Wasn't cheap),
The bike feels great, Reminds me of my old Honda 250 Elite but weaker.

Had to laugh...My girlfriend found this:










I'm still looking for an anchor, Put about 30 km on the bike already,
I'll head over to Rona tomorrow and see what they have.

Photos of me on the bike to follow.

Cheers!

Dave


----------



## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

I used a flex lock back in the days, as long as you leave very very little room for anyone to get lock cutters into there, you're ok. In most cases you don't have to lock up but at night or in a commercial underground parkade or a sketchy part of town it's never a bad idea to lock up. If visiting at a residential, commercial, or school district, most of the time I've never had to lock up -- I'd usually just park in a car parking spot. At home I had an underground parking lot to just park my scoot in -- never locked it. Just use the wheel lock that's built into your ignition system, scoots are not light things to carry around if the wheel is locked.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I bought the Kryptonite 5' Fahgettaboutit, Just found the label in my back pocket.

Here's the pictures that I promised of the Vespa:

http://homepage.mac.com/dolawren/PhotoAlbum24.html

BTW...I took back the alarmed disc lock back because it was an infrared triggered type,
Seems that the alarm won't work if you have skinny discs and are on the sunny side
of the street, I told the salesman that someone could probably defeat the alarm with a flashlight as well.
Also to note about this type of disc lock alarm is that it use 6 watch type batteries, I'd prefer it if it was a 9v battery.

Dave


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Just to add...I saw that "Crappy Tire" has some disc locks that use a barrel key for $50.,
Anyone think it's a good idea or a bad idea to buy one for quick stops etc.

Thanks

Dave


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

Just got back from my ride, a great ride today, maybe put on about 300 km today.

For quick stops I wouldn't worry too much about it, your scoot has a built in immobilizer with the key right? That with the steering lock should be all you need during the day. Try Motorcycle Superstore over on River (Okay probably not the best shop to deal with) They probably have newer disc locks non barrel type, they should also run for about $50.

vince


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Sorry we missed you, We hung around until about 11:30 and then left to see some friends,
I forgot what it is like having a passenger, I took her home and then shopped
around for the accessories that I wanted.

I've got the bike tyed up to the tree in the front yard at the moment, But would
prefer it was tyed up to an anchor in the ground.

Picked up some bungee cords at crappy tire (1/2 price), The day wasn't a complete loss.

Cheers!

Dave


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Managed to get a cinder block, Now I just need something to bolt to it to use for the anchor.
(Then I can bury it in the front yard)

I'll see what Rona has in their hardware section today.
(Hopefully something that is rustproof)

Dave


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I went down to the Vespa dealer today because I couldn't get the scooter to start
using just the kick starter, The dealer told me that I can't start the scooter with the
kick starter and that essentially that the kick starter is more for decoration on the 150 cc scooters.

Well that sucks, I bought the scooter because it had both kick and electric start and
now I'm being told that I can't use the kick, He also told me to just get a battery
charger to keep the battery charged.

Yet the owners manual states that I can use the kick starter to start it,
Now I'm really confused, Can I use it or not?
I couldn't get the bike to start using it anyways.

Dave


----------



## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

Never heard of that one, I always assumed that the kickstart was there for back up, not decoration. 
Try these forums.
modernvespa.com
scooterbbs.com
to_scooters on the yahoo groups.

vince


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

scootsandludes said:


> Never heard of that one, I always assumed that the kickstart was there for back up, not decoration.
> Try these forums.
> modernvespa.com
> scooterbbs.com
> ...


I've already joined Modern Vespa and I'm waiting for the email from to_scooters,
But that is something else about the kick starter, He also told me I could ruin the
engine if I tried to kick it over, I've never had a bike with a kick that I couldn't kick before.

Here's a link to a thread about the Vespa ET4 and kick starting it:
http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3930&highlight=kickstart

(It's not an LX150, But it certainly tells me something about the Modern Vespa)

Dave


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I found a Kryptonite above ground anchor for $39.99 usd,
Trouble is is that the shipping costs almost as much as the anchor.
(The price of security I guess, Yes...I bought it)

Link:
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/item.aspx?style=7507&department=640&division=6

Dave


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

dolawren said:


> I found a Kryptonite above ground anchor for $39.99 usd,
> Trouble is is that the shipping costs almost as much as the anchor.
> (The price of security I guess, Yes...I bought it)
> 
> ...


Wow...Looks like the link doesn't work anymore,
They must have completely sold them out.

Cheers!

Dave


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## SkyHook (Jan 23, 2001)

>


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

SkyHook said:


> If you're going to bury a cinder block, why not just put a long chain through it and link it at the hole so that the chain can't be pulled out.
> 
> Then you just have the two ends of the chain sticking out of the ground, which I think would last a useful time considering the price of the solution.


The cinder block that I have is hollow on one side only, The other side is smooth surfaced.
Also it looks neater with the anchor, Besides the fact that a chain is too easy to defeat.

Thanks for the suggestion though.

Dave


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Update:

I received the Kryptonite Stronghold Security Anchor (Finally),
FedEx wouldn't leave it between the doors of my house, So I had to have it
delivered to my girlfriends office instead.

However a problem with the LX 150 Vespa scooter has arisen, The front disc
brake reservoir has developed a leak and has caused damage to the body work,
I found paint peeling and a crack in the housing. (Covered under warranty)

I've taken the LX 150 scooter over to the Vespa garage for servicing, I'm hoping
that I'll get the scooter back sometime on Saturday (Today).

I might not have known it was the brake reservoir had I not asked about the
paint peeling over at www.modernvespa.com, Lucky I caught it in time and didn't have an accident.
Apparently some of the new Vespa scooters were shipped out without the brake
fluid reservoirs tightened properly.

Otherwise...This scooter really flies, I'm really enjoying it.

BTW

Anyone know of some good scooter/motorcycle clothing stores in T.O.?
I need some Cortech w.p. size 14 boots and maybe some overpants.
(I'd like to try them on in person, Rather than take a chance and buy online)

Link to what the boots look like:
http://www.newenough.com/intl/tour_master_solution_wp_boots_page.htm

Dave


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## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

Wow.

Hope all goes well with the repairs D. Will go out and look for a lock as well soon. 

OK. This is for all out there following this thread: I'm a little confused. 

I have my M1, but what is next?? I know that I can keep renewing it (every 90 days), but rather not. How do I get this 18-22 month license and what is it? I was just looking @ the gov online, and they have some details, but it seems not all that clear - added to the M + M2 with conditions. I might eventually go for a bike like that Buell, but I will stick to a scooter for a minute, but might want to step up to a 125+.

But how do you get to the new Ms? Is it the same course? Are there separate tests??


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Not sure if I can help you with that, I got my Class M licence back in 1981.

However my girlfriend is going to be taking a course at RTI:
http://www.ridertraining.ca/licencing.html

Hope that helps.

Here's an interesting loophole:


> If you hold a motorcycle licence from another Canadian jurisdiction that
> is equivalent to Ontario’s restricted class M licence, you will be able to exchange your licence.


I wonder if that leaves it open to get a licence in Quebec and then transfer it to
an Ontario licence, Although the quote is under new residents to Ontario.
Although if you went to school in Quebec and then came back...Hmmm...


Dave


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I got the bike back yesterday from the Vespa garage,
But the panels that were damaged from the brake fluid leak weren't replaced.
I'll have to go back and get them replaced under warranty when they get them in,
It could take a couple of weeks of waiting before the panels get shipped.

Oh well...At least I got the bike back and I can still get to work faster than the transit.

BTW...I installed the Kryptonite Stronghold Above Ground Anchor yesterday and chained my bike to it,
This sucker is really well made, Glad I got it.

Dave


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

Ohenri said:


> OK. This is for all out there following this thread: I'm a little confused.
> 
> I have my M1, but what is next?? I know that I can keep renewing it (every 90 days), but rather not. How do I get this 18-22 month license and what is it? I was just looking @ the gov online, and they have some details, but it seems not all that clear - added to the M + M2 with conditions. I might eventually go for a bike like that Buell, but I will stick to a scooter for a minute, but might want to step up to a 125+.
> 
> ...


----------



## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

> ou get tested, if you pass, you bring your results back to a drive test centre, and they issue you a M2 license.


But I will be tested on a true motorcycle, no?? I have no experience whatsoever on one.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Ohenri said:


> But I will be tested on a true motorcycle, no?? I have no experience whatsoever on one.


I took a course back in 1981 with real motorcycles and did my first test on their bike,
I failed but the second time I took the test I used a Honda C70 scooter and passed.

Dave


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

Ohenri said:


> But I will be tested on a true motorcycle, no?? I have no experience whatsoever on one.


They teach you how to ride on a motorcycle at the course. At RTI, they had every style of motorcycle and insist that you try every kind, and then take the test on what your most comfortable with. When I got my license, I never even sat on a motorcycle off it's kick stand before, and they treat everybody like that, even if you're experienced, by the end of the course, you'll be riding like a pro. I have nothing but good things to say about RTI, it's a great course that's a lot of fun, and very informative, that could save your life one day. 

See my previous post about the course at RTI. I also failed my first time out on the test, but I came back a week later and redid my test, and scored perfect, at RTI, retesting is free until you pass, not so at the community colleges. Give them a call to see if you can book a class this year, they might be filled up for the rest of season, but you never know unless you call. They might have a scooter course, but if might be just for the LSM license.

They also have a M2X course that's offered for scooterist (something to think about in the future). Basically it's for people who have a bike that's doesn't qualify as a LSMotorcycle, and don't ride on the highway like myself, so it's just like a regular M2X course, but instead of taking you on a 400 series highway, they take you on the Allen, the course is rare, and sometimes you'll might need to organize a group yourself. Which isn't to hard to do, since there are a few other scooterists who need to do their M2X test. 

vince


----------



## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

Vince/anyone, just a quick Q?:

Not that I do not want to take the course, but what is involved in the drivers test to get the M2/M2X?? Wheere do they take you?? Does someone recall ?? I never took the driver's course when I was teen, and just got my G - BAM! 

Just wondering if I could do the same - to get the M2X...

I figured that I could just walk up and sched an appt??

H!


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

If you need to ask, then you need to take the course. At the end of the course is the test, if you pass, you take it to a testing centre, where they will forward your papers to getting an M on your endorsement.

Everything that is on the riding test is outlined in the motorcycle handbook (which you need to study to get your M1). Don't try to wing it, I did when i was 16, and failed it, luckily it was only $15 at the time.

Sorry to keep emphasizing on the course, but a motorcycle/scooter is quite different from a car or a bicycle. I have enough friends who think I'm crazy cause I ride a scooter, cause they're worried for me and the dangers that go along with motorcycle safety, and that it's a matter of time until I get into a serious accident. Luckily for me (knock on wood) I haven't had any serious accidents in the 6 years I've been riding. A lot of that luck comes with taking a motorcycle foundation safety course and knowing what to do in an emergency, or to know how to ride safely in the city. It is a life or death situation, a lot of motorcyclist involved in an accident don't get a second chance. Check out any motorcycle board, and you'll see a 'in memory' forum.

Just take the course and don't worry about going into a test centre to see if you can wing it! Cause you will fail, and I would love to see you prove me (and everybody else) wrong. 

vince


----------



## SkyHook (Jan 23, 2001)

>


----------



## RicktheChemist (Jul 18, 2001)

.


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

RicktheChemist said:


> Bought a XF-50 two days ago.. if you would like a review of it.. please get in touch.
> 
> RtC


So you bought one of these:
http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/products/products.php?model=2063

Good stuff, You'll have to tell us how it rides.

Dave (Aka "Big Foot" at the Toronto Moto Scooter Club)


----------



## RicktheChemist (Jul 18, 2001)

.


----------



## RicktheChemist (Jul 18, 2001)

.


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

RicktheChemist said:


> That is correct. A nice blue one...
> 
> It rides very well right now considering I only have about 150 kms on it.
> 
> ...


Toronto Moto Scooter Club:
http://scooter.meetup.com/197/

A really good place for resources is Modern Vespa
(They can help with non Vespa things as well as Vespa related things)

Modern Vespa:
http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/index.html

Beginner Biker:
http://www.beginnerbikers.org/forum/index.php

GTA Forum:
http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/

Dave


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Electric scooters that do not require a licence.

Thinking about one for my son to ride to school

Have seen them as low as $250 - any thoughts??

He's about 7 km from school via the back road.

He can and has ridden his bicycle but on knobby tires and into the wind it's a bit far.

•••

Alternative is something like this










Honda Dio - much more $$ - there is one for $1300 - and of course licencing issues.

Thoughts?


----------



## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

If you get a low speed electric scooter, don't get a scooter get a bicycle, I think drivers tend to get confused if they see something that looks like a motorcycle go soooo sloooooow like 32km/h max on flats. At least with am electric bicycle drivers expect them to go slow. They tend to have limited range but should do the 14km on one charge with ease.

You can get older Dios for under $1000 now I think. You probably know what to check for with carburated 2 stroke motors. 



MacDoc said:


> Electric scooters that do not require a licence.
> 
> Thinking about one for my son to ride to school
> 
> ...


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

This Schwinn electric for $599 looks interesting:

Canadian Tire

30 km/charge and 28 kph.


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Trouble with electric bikes is that they are very limited on how far they can go
and then there is the recharge time for the battery.

Better to wait for the fuel cell version.

I'd highly recomend most 150 cc scooters that are on the market at the moment.
My girlfriend has a Vespa LX150 and she's on it every day, Work, Shopping and pleasure.

I have a 2006 Derbi Blvd 150 cc (Not being imported anymore),
I bought my scooter for $3000. over Christmas 2006, I got a steal of a deal,
Also I got a free gas gas card for a year.

Dave  (aka Big Foot at the Toronto Moto Scooter Club)


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

What do you think of the Burgmann 400s?? There is one available 2005 at $5k


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

MacDoc said:


> What do you think of the Burgmann 400s?? There is one available 2005 at $5k


The 400 cc Burgman is perfect for commuting and casual city driving.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/Article_Page.aspx?ArticleID=3641

The next bike I get won't be a scooter though...
It'll most likely be a Suzuki V-Strom DL 650.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/n...suzuki_new_motorcycles/2007_suzuki_dl650.html

Dave


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## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

The V-strom is a great bike! I am looking at a BMW R1200 GS for my next bike, same class of bike:










Sorry to turn the thread to motorbikes. This is the best time of year to ride, so get out your motorbikes and scooters while the weather is perfect!


----------



## Chealion (Jan 16, 2001)

vancouverscooter's diatribe has been removed from the thread so this thread may continue in peace.


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## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

nice.

I was just looking for this thread incase it needed reviving. But of course not. 

I pulled my Derbi out just about 1 month ago, and have been having so much fun. The weather is been great, and today is looking just as nice - as it thankfully rained last night.

In any case, has anyone seen today's Globe & Mail? They have a piece on CDN Scooter comp, the national distr fo Vespa brands - and all Piaggio I believe. Read and comment on thoughts. 

Pretty interesting. They talk about why scooter consumers are not offered Eco rebates, which I side with. And if were to ever happen, they better make it retroactive. Should not be too hard to manage, they only sold 3000 units last year.



> The guy on the Vespa gets the girl.


What about the girl on the Vespa? Does she get the guy? 

As well, the top selling scooter is apparently the Vespa LX50.









Is $4500 too much for a Eco friendly motor vehicle? The writer has seemingly not priced a Toyota Prius. And that is _still_ a car, and you have the associated costs of driving one to factor. 

In any case, a quick and good read for the scooter rider in us all. 

BTW, I'm looking to trick out mine this summer. I want to change my headlight to a high intensity one. Anyone out here made such a change?

H!


----------



## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

Hey Ohenri, why don't you come join us on our meetup group, sure Dolawren has posted links several times here. I would, but because of recent activities I won't.

Interesting what morey says about the Chinese scooters, just a lot more polite than what I had to say.


----------



## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

I might just do that. Lemme know the W5s. I've not been out here in a min, so I don't really know what's been happening. 



> just a lot more polite than what I had to say.


Is that right?? bad experience? I though the comment was a little bold, and could have been a touch more smooth-tongued. Just my thoughts. 

PM me deets about the greets.


----------



## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

Ohenri said:


> Is that right?? bad experience? I though the comment was a little bold, and could have been a touch more smooth-tongued. Just my thoughts.
> 
> PM me deets about the greets.


Not a bad experience, we had a spammer here last week, and got all in my face when I called him on it and what I said about Chinese branded scooters. Check the locked thread on scooters, it's pretty funny.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

scootsandludes said:


> Hey Ohenri, why don't you come join us on our meetup group, sure Dolawren has posted links several times here. I would, but because of recent activities I won't.
> 
> Interesting what morey says about the Chinese scooters, just a lot more polite than what I had to say.


Yeah...Sorry about that...I put my "Big Foot" in my mouth that time.

Tee eM eS Cee could use some more ride members, Always fun.

Dave or Big Foot or Dolawren or dolawren or D.O.Lawrence.

Heh

Dave


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Ohenri said:


> nice.
> 
> I was just looking for this thread incase it needed reviving. But of course not.
> 
> ...


For tricking out your scooter you could try asking at "modern vespa dot com"
(I'm not posting any more links)

Dave


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

dolawren said:


> For tricking out your scooter you could try asking at "modern vespa dot com"
> (I'm not posting any more links)
> 
> Dave


Apparently that's spamming as our little spammer friend would have you believe.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

scootsandludes said:


> Apparently that's spamming as our little spammer friend would have you believe.


It's not really spam, It's a free membership website...
Unless you want to buy the Modern Vespa Patch.

I got mine...Actually I bought several.

Dave


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

dolawren said:


> It's not really spam, It's a free membership website...
> Unless you want to buy the Modern Vespa Patch.
> 
> I got mine...Actually I bought several.
> ...


That was a jab at you know who, who was complaining about why we can post links, with no problems, but when he did it for his own site, we called spam on him. So I wasn't calling spam on the MV site.


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## The Great Waka (Nov 26, 2002)

Yup, it's been awhile, but I'm reviving this thread. I'm seriously looking at getting a scooter now and I'm doing my budgeting. What is a ballpark figure for insurance, for, say, a 20-something male and a new little 50cc number? I probably would take a motorcycle safety course if that drops the rates a bit. And if possible, I'm looking at comprehensive, as my biggest fear is the thing being stolen or otherwise damaged.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

The Great Waka said:


> Yup, it's been awhile, but I'm reviving this thread. I'm seriously looking at getting a scooter now and I'm doing my budgeting. What is a ballpark figure for insurance, for, say, a 20-something male and a new little 50cc number? I probably would take a motorcycle safety course if that drops the rates a bit. And if possible, I'm looking at comprehensive, as my biggest fear is the thing being stolen or otherwise damaged.


Did you manage to get a scooter?
I know it's been awhile since this thread was conceived.

Have you been over to the Toronto Moto Scooter Club website?
I'm sure you could get some advise from the members over there on where to start.

Edited out the link...
Do a google search to find the club, I forgot that I'm not supposed to post links.

Dave  (AKA Big Foot)


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Wow. And I was going to start a scooter thread.
Up until a couple of days ago, I never thought of getting one. Not until the liter just went up to 1.42 yesterday here in Goose Bay. I just took a used C3 for a spin. I really enjoyed it. I used to have a Honda 750, but I have forgotten the thrill of those days. Nearing 50, I think the C3 would do me for now. We only have 20 km of road here. There is a section where you can do 70 km/hr, so, the C3 would be limited there. We do have the BW50s here as well as Vino 50, Vino 125 and even the Majesty 400 (way out of my price range). A new C3 is $2599 with $150 Yamahabucks and an extra year warranty. I'm having a hard time deciding. I hear the 20 strokes are faster, but I like the 100+ mpg on the 4 stroke C3. Not sure what the 4 stroke Vino 125 would get for mileage.


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## iJohnHenry (Mar 29, 2008)

You could use that, what, 3 months a year?? :lmao:


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Actually, I'm a bit braver than that. I may even take it out in the early winter (October-December). That means about 8 months of scooting. Anyone know how the C3 may do in winter time? For those of you with a C3, here is a way to squeeze out a few more kph:

YouTube - How to derestrict a Yamaha C3 scooter, 1 of 5


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Top of mind - anyone know what the cutoff size is for cheap insurance rates?


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

csonni said:


> Wow. And I was going to start a scooter thread.
> Up until a couple of days ago, I never thought of getting one. Not until the liter just went up to 1.42 yesterday here in Goose Bay. I just took a used C3 for a spin. I really enjoyed it. I used to have a Honda 750, but I have forgotten the thrill of those days. Nearing 50, I think the C3 would do me for now. We only have 20 km of road here. There is a section where you can do 70 km/hr, so, the C3 would be limited there. We do have the BW50s here as well as Vino 50, Vino 125 and even the Majesty 400 (way out of my price range). A new C3 is $2599 with $150 Yamahabucks and an extra year warranty. I'm having a hard time deciding. I hear the 20 strokes are faster, but I like the 100+ mpg on the 4 stroke C3. Not sure what the 4 stroke Vino 125 would get for mileage.


Rickthechemist has a C3 in Montreal, He seems to be quite happy with it.
He's also a member of our Toronto Scooter Club

Anyone can be a member of the club,
We have quite a few members from far away places, Even Detroit.

Dave  AKA "Big Foot"


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

iJohnHenry said:


> You could use that, what, 3 months a year?? :lmao:


Woah...I'll have you know that a lot of us drive at least 10 months out of the year,
Cold is just cold, Snow on the other hand can't be driven in unless you drive a URAL


Dave


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

MacDoc said:


> Top of mind - anyone know what the cutoff size is for cheap insurance rates?


I'm in my 2nd year for insurance after a break since the 80's when I had a BMW 650,
I started last year at $600. at State Farm for my Derbi Blvd 150 and this year
I switched to Jevco because they offered me a better rate of $470. a year.

State Farm wouldn't give me a lower rate, So I switched to Jevco.

Jevco seems to be the best insurance out there hands down.

Dave


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Scooters on the brain?

I think so... Have you got yours yet?

Dave


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Well I'm now firmly in the scooter camp tho it's taking some getting used to.

















Found a 2006 Silverwing with very low 4k on it. Drove it home from Uxbridge and aside from dodging the thunderstorms ( not always successfully ) it's a hoot.

Stayed remarkably dry even in quite heavy rain. The front end tends to track small imperfections in the road a bit when it's wet - that was disconcerting.
Is that normal with the the small wheels?

Still getting used to no clutch and shifting but hands fared very well for a 2 hour ride ( couple of stops ). Getting to like the point and go and no shifting a lot but still not smooth on take off with no clutch.

Also not used to having no foot brake - but over all very pleased. Bike is quite, super KISS to use. #1 son is thrilled "cool bike dad" ........aka - can I have the Kawasaki 

Gas gauge, tons of storage. Seat was not even broken in so a bit stiff and my motorcycle jacket has kidney armour which made the backrest a tad lumpy - might have to rethink the jacket.

Forgot how slippy rain and oil at stoplights  get so need better riding boots with the right soles. Suggestions welcome.

I tend to get on with leg over instead of step through - nice touch having both side and centre stands and an interlock on the sidestand.

Pretty much as I hoped - first time in 30 years I've come home from a ride without sore hands. :clap:


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Watch out for Hummers, MacDoc. They eat bikes like yours for lunch.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Has to catch it first 



> Honda Silver Wing: Meet the Jetsons
> Written by Neil Johnston + Photos Kevin Miklossy
> Tuesday, 28 November 2006
> 
> ...


170 kph+ and gets there plenty quick. Still transitioning from high CG for the Kawi to the ground hugging Silverwing.


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## ruffdeezy (Mar 17, 2008)

I would get one right away if I didn't have to cross a bridge to get to work.


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## JerusalemJim (Jun 13, 2008)

I ride an old 75 Suzuki T500 Titan- love it- goes like spit!
jj
blakeys on the boots are helpfull taking off and slow corners


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Ah first longish night time ride on the Silverwing. Very sweet - had to drop back to get a long sleeved shirt as it's only 16 but so far best bike I've owned. :clap:

There was low fog in places and that's a treat when the roads are empty....took 40 years off me. Clean air from the tstorms earlier.

A bit like this but darker evening - love this time of year 










Very comfie - great lights - scooters come of age big time.
I must admit I'm still tempted by the Burgman 650 but maybe too many toys, and it's a tad heavier plus I think I trust Honda motors over the long term.

Nice having a glove box for the garage opener - it's little touches I like. Put the stand down, it kills the motor - saves a step and is a safety feature. Push button off for the turn signals and they actually click, click, click. Having both centre AND side stand very useful.

55 liter storage under the seat means light grocery and most any other errand to bookstore etc is totally feasible and things stay dry.

Have not heard the ABS brakes kick in yet tho I had to brake pretty hard today at one light ( damn thing IS heavy ) but it's nice to know they are there when it get raining.
Maybe go out and try some real hard stops tomorrow with the armour on to get a feel for it.

Wasn't sure I would like this positioning with my feet forward but it's fine when not in stop and go. 










Worst habit to break...throttle blipping at a stop light  - NOT recommended. 

*anyone with riding boot recommendations????*


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Finally tried two up with size large kid on back - aside from stopping distance getting radically longer it was very comfie - perhaps even a nicer ride than one up. 

Best part was we could chat easily even at 80 kph. He said he was very comfie.

Went for 1/2 hour mid night jaunt we both enjoyed then he got 15 minutes on the Silverwing on a dead end industrial road....now has his eye on a Ruckus.

Have been asked - even at a stoplight once.. about the Silverwing... gas mileage = sure is interest out there.

Times they are achangin'

My hand is still sore from throttle control but ordered a nice cruise control for that and found some gel gloves that just kills the vibration cold - again safety stores have lots of protective gear for cheap ( tho the gloves were $100 )

Tip for riders - safety stores have excellent bulk glasses that are stylish and very inexpensive....got 5 pair for $40 - two clear, two very dark and one intermediate, all wrap around, large lenses and durable frames as befits safety gear. These are not cheapie construction and even come in yellow for those that like that at night.
Paid $40 just for ONE pair of clear riding glasses at the cycle store.



















Excellent coverage...



> Extreme wraparound design for excellent coverage and optics
> 
> Padded nosepiece adds comfort and reduces sliding
> 
> ...


and can we say cheap.....!!!! 
item No: 10956

Qty
1 - 11
12 +
Price
$5.60
$5.10


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## jeepguy (Apr 4, 2008)

MacDoc said:


> Have been asked - even at a stoplight once.. about the Silverwing... gas mileage = sure is interest out there.
> 
> Times they are achangin'


I'm surprised I don't see any on the way to work on the 400. In fact I see very few bikes.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Not likely a lot of commuters on bikes if they need to use the 400 tho you'll see tons this weekend touring about.

Insurance is killing the big bike industry so look for many more around the streets.

My van insurance is $1700 versus $451 per year for the Silverwing and both vehicles are about the same value. .

Where they shine is shorter commutes and local errands. Due to storage and for the inexperienced, ease of use, the scooters are the hot item.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Anyone with sore hands from throttle pressure, here is a terrific solution.










Gorgeously made - the mechanic was really impressed at the quality and very easy to use.

You can hardly see it on the bike but all of a sudden your throttle pressure is gone with a touch of your thumb. :clap:
Touch the brake and it releases or you can click release as well.

BrakeAway Motorcycle Cruise Control - Product Info

Had a longish two up tour - aside from sore butts we both enjoyed it.

Talked to the mechanic about a quite small scooter he had in for service - he said the guy rode it in on the Queensway from Mississauga to Toronto every day 
Wow what a hike on a small scooter.

At $1.35 a litre adn climbing - I suspect we'll see many many more.

My son's motorcycle course at Sheridan was full of older riders - he was by far the most experienced rider there - go figure. 

I'd say out 50 in the course - 90% were 30 plus and several 50+


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## Mississauga (Oct 27, 2001)

NEVER trust "cruise control" devices on a bike!!! EVER!!! NO MATTER WHAT!!!

If you're experiencing discomfort from the throttle control, consider a different grip style, adjusting the throttle cable/return spring, changing your seating position and/or handlebar position. You might also consider doing some weight training exercises for the wrists.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Oh please - 
I've been riding with cruise controls for 40 years on various bikes.

The last thing I need is more things to do with my hands - they're plenty strong and that does NOT help nerve damage. That's the main reason I switched to an automatic - to reduce clutching.

Stretching, ice, reduced vibration and not curling them around things for long period does. 
The R in RSI is the issue.

Cruise control lets me stretch my hands and change position. You might as well tell me not to trust my brakes or throttle.

What is safer? - a cramped aching hand or one that functions properly because I'm able to stretch it from time to time?
....I'll take the latter.


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## Mississauga (Oct 27, 2001)

It's your life.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Yep - ANY mechanical system can break and you could just as easily apply the same logic to cars with cruise control.

One buys good gear a "trusts" it to work properly. A jammed rudder on a sailplane could kill me too....or a drunk driver while I'm walking.

Life is too short to be timid......once around.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I found out that the insurance rates are the same for 50 cc or 100 cc.

Anyone know of a decent mainstream 100cc model - scooter or light mcycle??


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Ah finally - looks like we are both settled on our bikes for the next 3 years until his insurance goes down.

Found this...



















It's same CC as the Jazz but slightly bigger frame, a bit faster and way better lighting.
Few hundred dollars more but he can go riding with me on country roads as it will do 60-70 kph easily 80 on good day and I suspect next year a 70cc kit will boost that.

The windscreen gives him protection and he's got more storage.

Sucky kickstand but he's a MUCH happier kid and I look forward to cruising the escarpment roads on quiet days with him.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Much fun - his first late night ride - Zuma did 70 km very comfortably. Big dual headlights and good size tail light makes it look much larger - excellent road presence.

He had fun....so did I. :clap: Shows what can be done with 49cc. 

estimated mpg 123!!!


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

MacDoc said:


> Much fun - his first late night ride - Zuma did 70 km very comfortably. Big dual headlights and good size tail light makes it look much larger - excellent road presence.
> 
> He had fun....so did I. :clap: Shows what can be done with 49cc.
> 
> estimated mpg 123!!!


Just noticed that you joined the TMSC (Toronto Moto Scooter Club)

Welcome to the club MacDoc

Hope you can make it to the "Twisted Wheel Rally" this coming weekend.

Last years rally video is in the above link, This years rally should be even bigger.

Cheers!

Dave aka "Big Foot"


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Can't convince the kid to come yet....still working on it ....we might drop by with my friend from South Africa - nice way for her to see the city if the weather is good.

Yikes - scorching week coming up










Update - kid now thinks he is destined to win the Vespa  so tentatively we're on for it. :clap:


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

MacDoc said:


> Can't convince the kid to come yet....still working on it ....we might drop by with my friend from South Africa - nice way for her to see the city if the weather is good.
> 
> Update - kid now thinks he is destined to win the Vespa  so tentatively we're on for it. :clap:


Glad to see that you'll make it, I'll be doing volunteer work at the event.
Don't forget to get the club patch and the Twisted Wheel patch when you go.

Good luck to your kid, Hope he wins the raffle for the Vespa.









(The designing process of the patch took quite awhile)
Our last meetup ride was the "Half the Wheel"
(The scooter with the Union Jack on the front cowl is my Derbi Blvd 150)

Dave


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

The Official Twisted Wheel Rally poster for 2008










Dave


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## iJohnHenry (Mar 29, 2008)

No wonder she is smiling.

Finally, the mystery of the ages is solved.

:clap:


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

sure....hand on the ...err.....throttle


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

MacDoc said:


> sure....hand on the ...err.....throttle


They should have made a mirror image,
Then she would have had her hand on the throttle.

Too late now though, All of the media has already been made and printed.

Dave


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Well...Everyone had a name tag at the Rally,
But I didn't see one that said MacDoc on it.

Where were you...You missed a really great Rally,
We must have had over 150 scooters there.

BTW...The scooter that was raffled off was won by the Yamaha Rep,
He brought a 2009 T-Max for everyone to test drive.

Dave 

Here some images of the Twisted Wheel Rally
(The images shot by me are by Big Foot)


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## iJohnHenry (Mar 29, 2008)

dolawren said:


> BTW...The scooter that was raffled off was won by the Yamaha Rep,
> He brought a 2009 T-Max for everyone to test drive.


Excuse me????  

WTF is going on there?? He should have been exempt!!


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Yeah - weather and some brake issues with kid scooter plus some business to conduct - had to take a pass.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

iJohnHenry said:


> Excuse me????
> 
> WTF is going on there?? He should have been exempt!!


That's the way it is, You buy a ticket, You hopefully win a prize,
He said he is going to keep it and give it to his wife to ride.

Dave


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Here's a video of what you all missed at the TWSR 2008

(The video was made by a member of the TMSC (Toronto Moto Scooter Club)

Dave


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## Mississauga (Oct 27, 2001)

Cool video, Dave. Looks like a tight community. How big is the biggest guy you've seen riding a scooter?


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Mississauga said:


> Cool video, Dave. Looks like a tight community. How big is the biggest guy you've seen riding a scooter?


Roy is about 6'-6" and he used to ride a Piaggio BV 250,
But now he rides a Suzuki Burgman.

Dave


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Burgman or Silverwing can accommodate any size except really short riders( they are wide is the problem ).
They are big vehicles. - scooter is a bit of a stretch. 

I'm sure the bigger Italian scooters are fine as well.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

My girlfriend just traded in her Vespa LX150 for a Vespa GTS 250,
Now that is a nice scooter, Wish I could afford one, Maybe next year.
(Maybe next year I'll get the Vespa GTS 300...Heh)

Dave


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Well, I took the plunge, Traded in my Derbi 150 Blvd for an Aprilia Scarabeo 200.
Glad I did, This bike is fantastic, I can now ride on the highway with my scooter.










Aprilia Scarabeo 200

Dave


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## Mississauga (Oct 27, 2001)

Congrats, Dave. Cool lookin' scooter. Enjoy!


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Ohh very cool :clap:


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I noticed there was some good looking eScooters for sale right on the main drag in Stratford but the current crop seem underpowered.

This tho should make a big difference



> *Affordable, Powerful Electric Scooters Coming Soon*
> 
> VentureBeat reports that PowerGenix has developed a nickel zinc (NiZn) battery that has 35 percent higher power and energy density than a nickel metal hydride (NiMH) battery (used in hybrid vehicles), but is half the cost of a lithium-ion battery.
> 
> ...










:clap:


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Cool looking scooters, except here in St.John's, the potholes are the depth of the entire tire.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Funny you mention that - better road maintenance would reduce fuel consumption and indeed manholes and other irregularities take away some of the scooter pleasure even a heavy sucker like the Silverwing.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Yes, MacDoc, along with adjustments to the air pressure in tires that is constantly being thrown out of kilter by these potholes.


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## jeepguy (Apr 4, 2008)

I see a lots of scooters in TO, with no license plates, is there a class that doesn't require one ?


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## Harvey (Oct 9, 2005)

No, even small scooters and mopeds require a plate. I don’t know whats up in Toronto, but New York Scooter riders velcro their plates on. When they park illegally (on sidewalks) they pop the plates so the metermaids can’t get their plate numbers.
Regards
Harvey


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Harvey said:


> No, even small scooters and mopeds require a plate. I don’t know whats up in Toronto, but New York Scooter riders velcro their plates on. When they park illegally (on sidewalks) they pop the plates so the metermaids can’t get their plate numbers.
> Regards
> Harvey


Nice. At that point, I guess it's time to call the scrap metal company and send the obviously abandoned vehicle to the crusher.

I'm betting that shortly after the first 200-300 mopeds get recycled into beer cans those license plates will get welded to the mopeds.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Saw a pickup truck go by just the other day with an electric scooter in the back,
I don't know if he was on his way to the scrap dealer or it was his backup bike.

But by the way it was lying down in the back, I don't think he cared to much about it.

Electric bikes are only on a pilot project until the fall of 2009,
Hard to tell whether they are staying after that point.

I hope that they improve the speed on them by the expiry date though,
At the moment they are a hazard on our roads because they are way too slow.

I'd like to see the government put a ban on having them look like scooters,
They are giving the gas powered (Faster) scooters a hard time on our roads,
People think the gas scooters are slower and try to pass or even run them off the road.

This is an accident waiting to happen.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Yeah it's hard to get people to understand scooter capabilities.

Had a nice chat with a cop the other night - I was on along late night loop and stopped to put on my jacket and he pulled up and asked if I needed help
He had a bike and we chatted - I showed him the storage but when he asked "can that go on the highway" and I said yeah top speed is about 170 his jaw sort of hit the ground.
It was fun to chat and gave me a break after a rather chilly shirt sleeve trek.

•••

*Cool weather gear.*

I used to ride year round and the Honda has a lot of coverage BUT I really have no cool weather/rain/warm gear. My mesh is good armour but no wind/rain protection at all - good in the heat awful when cool.

I'm really enjoying using the Silverwing for errands and want to go 9 months+ if I can.

My leather jacket is not a mcycle jacket so no wind cuffs etc and will be retired soon from riding duty as it's really a "out on the town jacket" tho does okay for warmth.

Gloves I'm good on, still hunting for boots but looking for overgear suggestions.

I think what I want is a jacket I can use all weather then pants that can double as rain pants and warmth - the leg protection and chest protection from wind is excellent - it's really shoulders and arms that are exposed.

Not likely going far so easy on easy off is important. 

Any brand suggestions or store locations??

••

Hah just came across these and the Honda has a 12 volt take off in the glove compartment.












> Tour Master Synergy™ apparel is designed to operate from a vehicle standard 12-volt electrical system to provide unmatched levels of warmth and comfort. With Synergy™ apparel, wearers can be warm without the bulk and discomfort typically caused by excessive layers of clothing. By providing increased warmth and mobility in cold temperatures, Synergy™ apparel helps reduce fatigue while increasing safety and enjoyment. Each Synergy™ garment is heated by a series of durable carbon fiber heating elements, which generate safe, electronically controlled infrared heat. In addition to safe and even heating, carbon fiber elements are lightweight, flexible and safe to operate in wet conditions. It is the carbon fiber’s light weight and flexibility that allows Synergy™ garments to fit comfortably under protective riding apparel.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I'm interested in getting the Termoscud and put those hot air vents to use,
My engine cooling system has vents that can be directed to keep me warm.










Maybe some heated grips too,
They'll keep my hands warm under my GIVI handlebar muffs.
Although the muffs aren't bad without added heat.

Dave


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I'm considering heated gloves/liners - that's really my biggest concern.
I think the Silverwing has heat vents up high too tho it might just be air.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Got some good gauntlets at Can Tire - multilayer - work fine :clap:

•••

Anyone interested in motorcycling catch

Long Way Down

Ewen MacGregor and company travel from the tip of Scotland to the tip of Africa.

Very enjoyable. National Geographic.

YouTube - Long Way Down

YouTube - Ewan McGregor and Charley Boorman cross the 'Long Way Down'

DVD is available too.










much fun.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Oddly enough, I am watching this right now in HD on Geo. Very interesting and the scenery is to die for.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Scotland was drop dead gorgeous....would love to ride there.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Just watching a new PBS about the Lincoln Highway.

A Blog Along The Lincoln Highway — All of this is about a public TV project about one of America’s great roads, and we’re hoping you might enjoy reading about some of our behind-the-scenes work. I’m Rick Sebak, and I write mos

Now that's pretty easily reachable in the Pennsylvania section.










Fall In PA :: Photo Gallery

Looks like a superb ride, Lancaster County ( Amish ) is always fun.

Has anyone ridden down that way in the last few years?

Been a couple decades since I've biked in that area.

Sure was nice out today and tonight.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

It's almost spring....a cautionary tale... 

Accidents: Stop-Motion Motorcycle Collision On Tail Of The Dragon

Take it easy out there.....


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

MacDoc, if the 90km/h winds don't knock you off your cycle, the -25C wind chills will this morning here in St.John's. Spring???????


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Motorcycles keep you young

Just as I always thought,
Maybe that's why I don't have that many grey hairs.

Heh


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Just paid for some mod's on my latest scooter,
It's my third one since starting this thread.

Vespa LX 150 -> Derbi Blvd 150 -> an Aprilia Scarabeo 200

Anyways, I got heated grips, A Stebel Nautilus 139 db air horn
and I also got the rollers in the variator replaced,
They were going flat prematurely at the 800 km mark.

Also paid $149. today to get my drivers license and plates renewed,
Course the $30. extra was for the new personal vehicle tax on Motorcycles.
(Grumble)


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Kids gets job...kid graduates to real bike










What a sweet machine.....250 cc feels and looks much larger tho handles very light. Lots of gear stirring tho. 6 speed makes you work but decent torque even down a gear from optimum.

Tame on the street - mild like a scooter then just howls when it gets wound up.
Damn thing is in MPH so have to be aware.

Nice review here

2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Review - Motorcycle.com

Now does THAT look like 250??! 
Clever marketing too ....no 250 badge - just the Ninja logo so very hard to tell it's not one of the big guns.










Our first Kawasaki. Impressive value for money and cheap insurance.
It would have to be wicked cold today but he's out on it anyways.  Tight fit into the van but wrestled in in. Looking good for kid and dad riding later this week.

Update. much fun to ride but damn cold with no windshield.

Anyone need a cool scooter?


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

My Aprilia Scarabeo 200 like the Kawasaki's has a DOHC engine,
One of the main reasons why I bought it, I just love a DOHC engine.

Since it's a scooter I can get really decent mileage on my commute to work and back
and still get up to highway speed with ease without having to get a bigger motorcycle.

If Kawasaki ever decides to make a KZ400 again...I'd be buying one again in a heart beat,
I miss my old 1978 KZ400, Someday I get one again...someday...

Dave


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

If you liked the KZ400 










you really might check out the 250 Ninija. Remarkable and extremely popular. The riding position is more upright than the look of the bike might indicate.











Tame like a scooter on the slow parts....goes like a bat when you wind it up.
Nice mix.

Reminds me of my RD400 in terms of docile at slow speeds ( they had a trick for this ) and still 100 mPh plus when you wanted. Review called it the perfect bike. 










Could not find a black photo.....surprised they are a very active model


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Wow - EVs getting serious now and not badly priced either....










$4500 50 mph 60 mile range and ABS brakes and available right now !

X-Treme Scooters Announces New X-Treme XM-4000Li Electric Moped | Zoomi Life
Very interesting site

There is an explosion in EV motorcycles.

Zoom life covers it all.

Zoomi Life - News and Information from the Electric Vehicle industry


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I've just sold my 2008 Aprilia Scarabeo 200 and bought a 1982 Vespa Piaggio P200E

I take delivery of the Vespa P200E in the middle of next week,
I can hardly wait, Always wanted a manual shift Vespa.


----------



## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

How much was the Vespa if you don't mind me asking?

How is the insurance on it?

I have an Aprilla Supermoto and it is killing me in insurance. I'm thinking about downgrading.


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Adrian. said:


> How much was the Vespa if you don't mind me asking?
> 
> How is the insurance on it?
> 
> I have an Aprilla Supermoto and it is killing me in insurance. I'm thinking about downgrading.


The P200E cost me $3499. plus tax, Roughly $3800,
Vintage insurance with JEVCO is about $341 a year.

I'm getting a Stebel air horn and Sito Plus muffler installed as well.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Who are you with Adrian.??

Jevco is $1580 a year for my son's 250 Ninja and and he's only got 1 year under his belt.

My Silverwing is $551 a year.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I just got a new policy today for the Vespa P200E, It's $309. a year.
Man...I'm one happy camper, Although I have been driving motorcycles for over 30 years.

Dave


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

BTW...I found out a super secret on a Vintage Vespa forum,
You can separate a Stebel Nautilus air horn into two parts,

You can mount the air horn part in the horn cast and then have the air compressor
mounted anywhere you want on the scooter, Next to the battery is the best place.
But in the glove box would be better to have a shorter air hose to the horn.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

*What is a good size today?*

Hello all:

Years ago I bought my wife a scooter as a wedding anniversary gift. It was great on gas but only hit about 30mph. However the insurance was very inexpensive.

With all the advances in tech today, what would be an adequate engine size. We will be moving to a small city, so the ride will only be "in-town". I felt the last model was too slow for safe riding in town.

Also, we now have electric power...not sure if the premium is worth the mileage at this time.

I'm sure the engine was 80cc, is 250cc the starting point today?


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Pm'ed you - my son's Zuma is available and I can deliver to Bowmanville




















We had the same problem with his first scooter - a Honda Jaz - just too small and slow.
Not so with the Zuma - feels like a larger bike and has excellent road presence.
I've paced him on my Silverwing at 80 kph but 60-70 is the norm with excellent acceleration.

Lots of storage - just certified.

He's moved up now he has a job









Loves his Ninja but it sucks for grocery shopping


----------



## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

dolawren said:


> I just got a new policy today for the Vespa P200E, It's $309. a year.
> Man...I'm one happy camper, Although I have been driving motorcycles for over 30 years.
> 
> Dave


You're getting ripped Dave. Who's your broker? I just renewed mine, and you got 20 plus years on me. Mine is $280 this year.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

scootsandludes said:


> You're getting ripped Dave. Who's your broker? I just renewed mine, and you got 20 plus years on me. Mine is $280 this year.


I don't care, It's not that important.
I stopped riding for awhile and have only been back riding for just under 5 years now.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

With the riding frequency my ass gets sore - it's the only downside of the Honda - with the feet up riding position all the pressure is on the tail bone  None is taken by knee flex










You CAN put your feet down on te floorboards bu there is no weight on them and no knee grip so tailbone gets the pressure.
Thinking the sheepskin might spread the load to thighs a bit and be a wider base.
I have a gel I'll try tonight.

Thinking of a sheepskin ....any riders have experience with them....gel??? other????


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I've heard from crotch rocket riders that swear by beads,
But lamb's wool would be nice, Gotta get a wider seat in the interim.
(My seat is way too narrow)


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I think beads are more for cooling - weight is all forward ( I used to ride with drop bars all over Ontario - shoulders are the killer .

I do wish I could shift the weight points but the design is you sit in the bike - no weight on hands, feet or even much on thighs.

Some on the back which the short back rest helps but yeah it comes down to a wider seat and less pressure so I'm hoping the sheep's skin might do it and still breath.
Gonna try a couple hours tonight with the gel - that should at least let me know.

Tempted to go straight north on a run - it's so hot and clear but I don't want to get too tired a long way from home given how busy we are.

There is NOT enough caffeine in the world for this time of year AND get up for Wimbleton


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Heading out the Durham Honda which has a sale on the Airhawk seats for $127 Cdn - tht's less than the US prices!!










which gets excellent reviews

Internet BMW Riders - Airhawk Seat Cushion Product Review

What prompted this was a long loop out to Haugens in Port Perry to get smothered in rib sauce and oogle bikes....every Thursday there is a meet up...hundreds of motorcycles - some extremely exotic and this is a small meet - the big one is in September.
There was one of these out there










for the well heeled !!! 
Honda Canada









SUPERSHOW Was There - Haugen's Restaurant Motorcycle Cruise Nights 2004

Some photos from the actual ride in on the Thursday

EVENING RIDE to Port Perry for "Cruise-In" nite - The Toronto Moto Scooter Club (Toronto, ON) - Meetup.com

Much fun but 300 km and one sore butt later ...... hitting the aftermarket for a seat....and maybe a bigger windshield - a bit too much buffeting on the 407 

Went back the long way with a small group of scooters ... a red Piaggio was quite impressive- quick and huge windshield and a huge smile on the lady behind it. Very nice ride across the top above the suburbs to the east.

•••

Been running about with another S/wing rider - oddly same age as me and - same machine right down to year and color.
He does day trip tours for scooters and motorcycles and runs this web site...I toured him around the areas north Of Burlington on some nice escarpment roads....and he traded some good stuff east of HWY 10 and the Forks of the Credit...

Routes n Rides

Been considering a GPS to help out










I think this is big enough if mounted between the bars with velcro -have a good flat spot.

The Magellan seems to get top marks for simplicity and the price is reasonable for a 5".

any feedback appreciated......bike or car experience...


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Rps said:


> Hello all:
> 
> Years ago I bought my wife a scooter as a wedding anniversary gift. It was great on gas but only hit about 30mph. However the insurance was very inexpensive.
> 
> ...


150cc seems to be adequate for in town riding,
Top speed with the 150 is usually about 95 km/ph

I have a 1982 Vespa P200E with a top speed of 100 km/ph (If I'm lucky)
My girlfriend has a Vespa GTS 250cc with a top speed of about 140 km/ph


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

double post!!!
Posting is messed up


----------



## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Twisted Wheel Scooter Rally is July 18th
Sorry for adding this on such short notice.

Hope to see all you scooterists there,
It's going to be yet another great rally, Just like last year,
Hope I win the scooter raffle, I really need a second scooter.

Wish me luck


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

test


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I posted, But it didn't post, It said that my post was a duplicate post?

Edit, Okay, It works now, Just very very very...Slowly.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Might see you there - look for twin Silverwings....been riding with Gord Keenan


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

:greedy:


MacDoc said:


> Might see you there - look for twin Silverwings....been riding with Gord Keenan



Didn't see you there, Next year?
It would have been nice to have finally have met you in person.

Here's some photo's of the rally

"Scooter Canada" will have a story on the rally in their August issue, Be sure to pick it up.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I was there, even asked a couple of the organizers about you.

I rode out to the zoo then went east for lunch and back across the top.

That's me back left in front of the trailing rider with the lower orange lights....there were only 4 on our group....two silverwings mine and Gord's which are just about twins in terms of set up


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

MacDoc said:


> I was there, even asked a couple of the organizers about you.
> 
> I rode out to the zoo then went east for lunch and back across the top.


There was a David H?
But he was driving a BV 250

Must have missed you,
Did you ask for Big Foot?

I lined everyone up for the ride too,
Must have been 10 lines of at least 10 riders for each line.

Almost missed going on the ride myself,
Ran to my P200E and just barely managed to join the last group for the ride.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

No I asked for Dave Dolawren










I was parked beside the other Silverwing where the group leaders were.....

Did you take the photo above on road??? - If so you must have been in the group in front of our 4.

I even had my MacDoc green hat on.

We got a kick out this










This guy had a Burgman Executive he bought in Eliot Lake and drove it all the way down - damn that's a big bike - glad I got the Silverwing but if I was touring the Burg would be the cat's ass......love that adjustable windshield and huge seat.


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Oh well, Glad you managed to make it out this year and have a good time,
That's the important part, Having a good time with other scooterists.

I'm known as "Big Foot" in all the major Toronto scooter clubs, Oh well, Next year.

Glad you made it out this year though.

Cheers!


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Here I am with the Mod patch on my arm,
Sitting with Vespa Jax and Rob.


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

MacDoc said:


> No I asked for Dave Dolawren
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Zeppo's are continuing their antics on the TMSC message board,
Apparently they've taken Roysies mascots hostage for the wording on his scooter.

It's all in fun I'm sure, Or is it?


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Latest cool toy in the arsenal 










Tested: Scala Rider Q2


very clean set up - easy to install and use...

It unclips from the helmet mount for storage and charging - nicely thought out...
Mine just used the clamp - easy to mount and get set up.

The key bits...



> Cellphone Connectivity
> 
> Those limitations aside, the SCALA RIDER Q2 MultiSet bluetooth headset does an extremely good job of bringing connectivity to your motorcycle helmet. The pairing process was as quick and easy as any other bluetooth headset out today. The phone calls I had while at highway speeds were incredibly crisp and clear. Everyone I talked to could not believe I was taking the call on my motorcycle traveling at 70mph. Cardo’s noise cancellation microphone, automatic volume adjustment (based on speed and ambient noise), and speaker booster work well in concert to bring you an excellent call experience.
> 
> ...


Gonna be hellishly easier to chat and let riding partner know what is going on - last time he had a strap hanging loose it was a bear to get his attention, horn flashing lights....now I'll just tell him to pull over....

Also be nice with a passenger..... love the technology put to good use :clap:

Oh yeah....the FM and music aspect suck....it's for voice..... I suppose you COULD tune the FM Tuner to a traffic station for some use.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Hats off to Scala for a quality product......functioned perfectly even in pretty hard rain and at 120 kph

430 km and a 10 hour say - chatting made the time go by ...much nicer way to ride.

CARDO SYSTEMS INC. | Cardo Systems, Inc., a leading provider of Bluetooth Headset solutions introduces the scala line of headsets.

Highly recommended - getting a third set next year so we can do 3-way with another regular rider.
Brilliant product.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Damn what a sweet machine for the money












> *Linahi release a 150 touring scooter that tops all others with GY6 150 engine.*
> 
> With the style and look of the Linhai 260 and hands down better quality than any other 150 Touring Scooter that is in its price range. Not to be confused with a Roketa with same name as this scooter is so far above any Roketa model will ever be. With 12 inch wheels and a tall windshield you get a smooth comfortable ride with large seat. Single head light and back rest for both passenger and rider your comfort was at the fore front of this design.
> 
> ...


Unreal value $2100 US


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Even better value....









Retailing for only R8499!

Leave to the clever South African's to marry up Piaggio know how- Chinese manufacturing and a knowledge of the local needs to brew up a winner lineup.

I'm now the proud owner of a 125XT - last year's model with only 167 km on it and he remainder of a 10k warranty for the grand sum of ...5500r or....$750 Canadian,,

I thought the cell phone socket was too cool.

My local runaround scoot for my second Africa adventure - lots of dealers around the country
Vuka Scuta
and a modern design

They are building quite a base of business.

Vuka Scuta

Now about the other side of the road driving......:yikes::baby:

This is the actual unit



EU & SABS approved scooter 
Meets Euro II Emission requirements 
Latest generation 125cc 4 stroke Single Cylinder Air cooled enjin 
Fully automatic – twist & go 
Higher standard frame corrosion protection as it has undergone dip immersion which reduces chances of rust 
Higher spec electrical components 
Scooter is belt driven with a cyclonic drive belt cooling filter which assists with the drive belt temperature 
Disk brakes in front & drum at the back 
I year/ 10 000km warranty
Free Helmet Included










Much fun to come.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Just for Dave 










Just pop in the Canadian flag


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

My replacement ride

Had the Silverwing on the left- moved sideways to the Burgman for better touring










OneWheelDrive.Net Scoot-Touring the Honda Silverwing and Suzuki Burgman

Quite different - Honda better in town and lighter...Burgman far better on the 400 series and has some real ooomph when ridden in sport mode.
Still tweaking the seating ad windshield on the Burgman - hope for some 3 day rides this season once that is done.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

*aug 27-29 Pennsylvania ride*

how's this for al lucky photo !!!
perfectly framed at 60 mph 

sense of speed is below the mirror there but the road in front and rider behind in decent focus given the circumstances

my poster for the trip  










Burgman was flawless and impressed co-riders - one on a Honda SS, nother on a Yammie SS and the other on the big Harley shown.
In the midrange the Burgman had no issue keeping up up to 80+ but I think what they were surprised at was the acceleration - the transmission is magic.
Handling was excellent - the Burgman was well heeled over and online even on a couple sweepers the SS Honda went a bit wide on.
I was pleased and the agng body hung in too...no sciatica. 1650 km in 3 days mostly in the Pennsylvania twisties. 555 etc.
Almost no slabbing so we had a work out.
7 deer sighted - 2 groups of two crossing the road in front of me, one pair at dusk :shock: and another pair this morning.

and a couple of wild turkeys

Much fun - good company - drop dead gorgeous weather...but bloody cold Saturday am.
Our SS riders got lost coming from Renovo and were popsicles when they finally got in around 10pm
I shook the Honda rider's hand and was shocked how cold he was.

We based out of Coudersport and Lantz Corners. LOTS of Canadian riders down for the good roads and good company. :thumbup: 

I got the deer, they got the chills ( we got separated and they missed a turn so I got in a bit earlier and had better cold weather gear ) Love the storage on the Burgman for that - but will get a topcase this week.- mostly for convenience and jacket/helmet storage.

3 of us met up with a couple more - all from Toronto.
It's about 4 hours on secondary roads to the Pennsylvania good roads for motorcyles. Thousands of bikes around this weekend.

Very pleased with the Burgman...wish the creaky bod did so well.  
but was even impressed with that aspect.....3 x 12 hour days in the saddle with lunch and supper breaks.
Goin' back soon for sure.


----------



## screature (May 14, 2007)

^^^ Nice shot. :clap:


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Thanks

remaining photos here for those considering driving or mcycling into the area

penn trip pictures by macdoc - Photobucket


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

*In case you were wondering about those big scoots.....*

Could not have said it better......a new Burgman 650 rider and a well thought out process to get there
and yes Virginia......it's the transmission 



> I'm 38 years old and I have been riding motorcycles for 15 years with broken time - longer if I count mini bike and dirt bike experience as a kid on various platforms. In addition to that experience, I rode a Honda PA-50 moped in my early teen years (12-16).
> 
> As for my 15 years of licensed motorcycling, I have owned a Yamaha RD-250, Kawasaki KLR 250,Kawasaki KLR 650 and a Honda XR650L. I have ridden many different bikes, V-Max, Sportster, Shadow, Street Glide, CM-450, CBR 600, DR-650, and probably a few others I can't remember. I have been through rider courses and have also coached.
> 
> ...


www.BurgmanUSA.com • View topic - NEW Burgman 650 Owner - What brought me to the Burgman

These Canadian testers were also in for a surprise...



> *Scoot-Touring the Honda Silverwing and Suzuki Burgman*


OneWheelDrive.Net » Scoot-Touring the Honda Silverwing and Suzuki Burgman

Keep it in mind if you are looking for a top top notch all arounder. And value for money is superb.










and damn is it fun in the twisties.


----------



## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Cool article. It's weird, I also prefer driving manual cars but I like automatic scooters. Go figure?


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I tend to be the same tho the sports auto on the Burgman was a revelation and is very much in line with the sports auto trannies that are popping up on the end sports cars these days ala this Beemer and many others

Car 2011 BMW X3 M Sports Package Release Date Spy Shots and Reviews

with variable performance choices.

Here is a good insight into the revolution of sports trannies and CVT

BMW and Audi Offer Surprising Transmission Choices


----------



## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Nah, manuals for life. I love rowing my own gears and I will until the day I die. Sequential shift systems confuse me whether in a motorcycle or those tiptronic things in cars.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Honda has really got something going with these if they price them correctly

They have a couple at the Toronto Motorcycle show....looks pretty fine if they come in around $10k

Those are fantastic offerings from Honda if the price stays around $10k









Huge gas mileage, weight way down low and automatics - they will be a hoot in the twisties yet a great commuter and light touring.










This will bring a lot of new riders on board now there is such a good choice in the mid range automatics - tho I prefer the CVT on the Burgman the DCT may appeal more to transitioning riders or like me who simply are not interested in clutching anymore and just want to roll and go.

That's a great design - no weight up top - not even gas.









and seat height looks excellent.
can't wait to see one tomorrow..

77 mpg and look to be lovely handling with the weight. Fully automatic - 

BMW released theirs as well this month.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> How they'll do in the U.S. is "a step in the dark," said Pieter de Waal, vice president of BMW Motorrad USA. Scooters aren't nearly as commonplace in the U.S. as they are in Europe, and their sales are correlated with gas prices. Its buyers aren't expected to be motorcyclists, nor are they likely to be owners of BMW cars.
> 
> BMW first dreamed up its maxi scooter concepts in 2007. It unveiled them to the public in Milan, Italy, in late 2010 and is manufacturing them in Berlin. The decision to go into production was based on "overwhelming support" from Italy, France and Spain, where BMW expects 70% of its scooter sales, De Waal said.
> 
> ...


If the price is right it will bring a lot of new riders and returning riders....


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

They are interesting





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

This is wonderful story of a 26,000 km trip around Australia on a Burgman 650



> Summary: This is the personal website of MaxG. This site has been set-up for family, friends, colleagues, and those who are interested in information about my interests and aspirations. Feel welcome and free to roam around, explore and share your thoughts.
> 
> Welcome, to the continuously expanding website of Max Gren•ko•witz a. k. a. MaxG!
> 
> *I rode Around Australia on my Burgman 650 Executive from April 24 to June 6th, 2010; In essence, I rode 40,000 km over a period of 6 months in 2010*.


MaxG | Around Australia: Day 28, Coober Pedy / Oodnadatta

You should see some of the roads - click the link above....


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

The problem with the BMW is I don't know the spec's,
What I mean is, Can I service it myself or do I have to take it in to a BMW dealer for all the servicing.
How much cowling has to come off before they can service the engine?

At least with my 2006 Vespa GTS 250 I know that the engine is under the seat and easily accessible.

Also, I pay on average of about $75. hour for service as opposed to the going rate of $105. for BMW servicing.

It's all nice and dandy to have a BMW scooter, But how much of a hassle is it going to be to service.


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

Lawrence said:


> The problem with the BMW is I don't know the spec's,
> What I mean is, Can I service it myself or do I have to take it in to a BMW dealer for all the servicing.
> How much cowling has to come off before they can service the engine?
> 
> ...



I cant speak to how easy a BMW scoot is to work on yourself, but I do know the rate for my BMW motorcycle is around $85 an hour, thats out in London.


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

wonderings said:


> I cant speak to how easy a BMW scoot is to work on yourself, but I do know the rate for my BMW motorcycle is around $85 an hour, thats out in London.


The Toronto BMW Motorad is definitely a lot more expensive.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Yeah $85 is the going rate for my mechanic.

Just got back from the Toronto show and the Honda 700 automatics were a no show but there two standouts there.

The G650 GS at $7999 is a kick ass value for money in a comfortable quasi-dual sport that can be set up for adventure touring,
Low seat height and good riding position plus some other innovations.










Think it might be ideal for one of my staff and fine value for money.

The other was the TW200 - talk about a fun starter bike or just to ride in the local area through anything - and cheap










The jury is still out for me on the BMW 650 scoots - the GT certainly has some potential depending on price but I don't see the sport version doing well at all.


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

The Yamaha TW200 has quite a large cult following in Japan, Might just be my next bike.
I need to bring some fun back into my riding and the TW200 might just be the ticket.





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

TW's are very fun bikes, and love those big fat back tires. When I did my motorcycle training course ages ago, thats the bike I used.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

You'd adore it here....actually thinking of not bringing the Burgman to Aus - the dual sport is too good in this terrain.....










adventures so far....much fun = getting off road now

Down Under on a KLR 650 ...second season


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Little bit of heaven today Milaa Milaa Falls

\









and I forgot my swim trunks due to a late start. There are three swimmable falls in a 15k loop. Will be going back into the area to explore 
Lake Koombooloomba National Park.


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Just saw this on Modern Vespa, Proof that car drivers can't see you.
OK...Now I'm a bit scared.

MSF


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

I just purchased a 2004 Yamaha BWS 50 to commute to work. Got a bit sick of the unreliable transit system these days, but needed a commute that would not cost more nor take longer than transit. Plus, I miss my old scooter and I am not bound by the speed restrictions of a 50cc anymore since we are a two car household.










MacDoc, lovely scenery.


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