# Highway Traffic Act >> Speeding ticket!



## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

While having visons of a Dual 2Ghz G5 w/ 1 Ghz FS Bus, I was nabbed on Hwy 7.  Now, I've been nabbed only one other time (years ago). But this one left wondering a few things (I'll be fighting this one in Perth BTW).

I was doing 115 apparently and tailgating this car in front (actually was catching up). All of this was determined while travelling in the opposite lane/uncoming traffic. Is that possible?? Trying to gather my arguments (if any)

Looking for the Ontario Highway Traffic act (in entirety) online. Anyone know where it is? Looks like it may be hidden away. Does the officer have any responsibility in proving the speed??  

H!


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## Kardnal (Feb 5, 2003)

While IANAL, I'm pretty sure if you choose to fight it, the Officer is going to have to prove/show how he calculated your speed. Whether he can do that coming from an on comming lane, while you were tailgating is beyond me.

Isn't highway 7 an 80? If he's got you doing 115, you're pretty screwed (that's a min of 3 points, if not more, isn't it?







). I'd fight it no matter what, you may even want to calls XCopper, or one of those types of agencies and see what they think.

In either case, good luck...


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

What was the speed limit on that stretch of HWY 7? 80Km?

Was the cop using a running radar? Did he show you the actual reading on the unit? Did you ask to see it?

Traffic offences are "judged" by a justice of the peace (JP), they are political appointees, they have no legal training aside from taking the Highway Traffic Act literally. If he feels you're guilty, he/she will convict you whether you present the finest legal argument or not.

Good luck


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## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

Yep - hwy 7 is 80. But I had just passed this tourist and was in mid squeeze of the gas pedal (one lane can be so difficult to endure). The officer and I saw each other only when I rounded the corner. After passing me, he then u turned and came back.  I was going to ask about the speed gun, but I do recall them not having to show it (the only other ticket I got?!?) - something like that. BTW, he mentioned that the car that I was 'tailgating' was doing 92. How did he get that reading & get mine?

Any luck on the HTA?? 

H!


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

A "running" radar will lock on the faster vehicle. You could argue that you just passed another vehicle, but the fact remains you were "clocked" and charged with doing 35Km over the posted speed limit. Not good. 

The best suggestion I have for you, is that you approach the crown counsel prior to court and ask to have it reduced to a "no pointer" , but the cop will have to agree. Then just plead guilty to that. In other words...cut a deal and move on with your life.

There is nothing in the HTA that will help you with this ( I have the printed version). Consider yourself lucky that you're not fighting a speeding ticket and a following too close ticket as well.


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## Etaoin Shrdlu (May 19, 2003)

Here's the Highway Traffic Act.


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## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

KPS, all is good. I'm not really disputing the fact that I was speeding: try doing 75 on a hwy... not fun. Like I said, I was fresh off passing someone and was finally in the clear. We saw each other after a turn. But if this 'running' radar locks in on the faster car, how did he get the reading on the 1st one?? Just questions really. Yeah, I would not mind getting the $100 fine dropped/reduced. But I still lose the points no matter. 

E/S. Many thanks for the act. Just a little curious. No?

H!


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## RicktheChemist (Jul 18, 2001)

Technically, doing 81 you would be speeding but due to error in the Radar gun, you could contest it. Therefore, normally, a police office looks for something 10K and over . Also, at 10K and over, the law allows for a ticket and demerit points. 

I have a thing about speeding ticket, if you get caught, suck it up and pay.. you also know that when you are passing somoene, you still have to respect the speed limit, right? Therefore, if he caught you passing at a speed above 80, you get nailed..

Cheers,

RtC

P.S. I loved the idea the Surete du Quebec got a few years ago as a pressure tactic. They took two squad cars and drove 100 on the highway between Montreal and Quebec side by side. Everyone was royally pissed and they got an agreement out of it. I think they should have one of those "drives" every weekend to slow people down.


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

I was heading West along a stretch of Dundas St. in Toronto, and just before reaching Islington, was nailed by a speed trap doing while doing 75km in a 50km zone. Will I lose points for this?

I've never been ticketed for speeding before and so I didn't think to ask at the time.

I won't deny that I was speeding, but I feel like this was a bit of a scam, as I was nabbed at the base of a longish winding hill. And, (sigh) , the fine was doubled as this was apparently a community zone, although it's an important artery of the city and there aren't any schools around. I'm looking at $175.

So, what about the points situation? Am I gonna pay through the nose for insurance?

Cheers


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## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

In general, I have nothing against fines. they're there to be paid - BUT, since I do have nothing to lose re: this hit, I'll go for it. I just find it a little odd... A friend of mine is a constabulary, so I'll be asking a few questions before my date. As well, I'll be looking to save my points, and $$ if possible (Kardnal - you got it!). I can tell you about all these parking tix that people do not fight, but could win... I have 6 dates set!

Oh yeah, these speed traps?? They're are the bottom of hills, with the cops hiding. Like the one around Eglington near Leslie. They need to make some of that $$.. so they go out and scoop a few folks. The bottom line is that most speed on the hwy - and in streets. The Q? is, who will get caught?  

H!


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## Etaoin Shrdlu (May 19, 2003)

> I loved the idea the Surete du Quebec got a few years ago as a pressure tactic. They took two squad cars and drove 100 on the highway between Montreal and Quebec side by side. Everyone was royally pissed and they got an agreement out of it. I think they should have one of those "drives" every weekend to slow people down.


They got the idea from the U.S. during the 55 mph maximum highway-speed era of the '70s. If memory serves, one or two of the cops leading the infinitly long parade were shot.


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## Kardnal (Feb 5, 2003)

Bloodyface, If I recall the points system in Ontario works like this:

0-15 over= 0 points
16-25= 3 points
30 to 49=4 points
50 over (or double the limit)= 6 points, and a court date. 

For more info, see this URL: http://www.golishlaw.com/special/demerit.htm and this one for the complete HTA.

As for your insurance, even with no points, speeding tickets are not a good thing to have on your record, and are worth fighting. It depends on who your policy is with, but your rates will more then likely be affected by it, and it'll be on your record for the next 3 years.

You have nothing to lose, as they can't increase your penalty. In most cases the JP will plead you down to no points, or even no points and less $$. Best case, the cop doesn't show up and you walk.

Good luck fighting it.

P.S. The cops love that area, I got nailed doing 83 in a 50







at Kipling and Dundsay 5 years ago, but the officer was nice enough to drop it down to only 15 over at 65.  I fought it, and the officer didn't make it, so I walked.


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## Britnell (Jan 4, 2002)

What happened to the Quote function????????????


Yep - hwy 7 is 80. But I had just passed this tourist and was in mid squeeze of the gas pedal (one lane can be so difficult to endure). The officer and I saw each other only when I rounded the corner. After passing me, he then u turned and came back. 
H!


When were you doing the 115k/h? on the turn or after he did the Uee? Did he have his eye on you at all times or did you look the other way so that his turn was safe? If he looked away, how can he be sure that it was you and not another car that looked like yours?


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## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

Jo, Hwy 7 outside of Ottawa. We are talking back roads. little traffic/no lights. 

H!


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

> Jo, Hwy 7 outside of Ottawa. We are talking back roads. little traffic/no lights.


Yeah, the red light running district is pretty much defined wherever the OC Transpo buses travel.  

One thing I've noticed ever since moving from the Maritimes to "Eastern" Canada is that most people here don't know how to drive.

Seriously.

You guys know how to start the car... and you can press the gas and brake pedals... but most people here have a hard time staying under 80 in a 50 zone, they pass on a double solid line, and cut each other off like it's going out of style and seem to not know how to use the turning lights.

Pedestrians are considered speed bumps and should be approached at either 5% less or more speed. It depends on how much of a rush you're in. I think the horn is used here more than signal lights, to tell you the truth.

Yesterday I was traveling home by bus (on the Quebec side) and some dip$h!t driving a flatbed truck (not a transport, the 5-ton kind -- one that's used to lug lumber to construction sites) cut off the bus as he passed and clipped the front left quarter-panel.

He didn't even stop.


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## jo42 (Jul 21, 2003)

Of course, the real eye opener was traffic and 'driving' in New York City. Good thing we took a cab instead of renting a car...!

Ohenri: my worst was being nabbed doing 160 in a 90 zone (Hwy 11 north of Barrie), on my sportbike, by a couple of off duty officers in an unmarked car going to a function. Took it to Pointts. Since my record was very clean, no speeding ticket in 10+ years, they talked it down to 35 over. Luckily, my insurance company forgave a 'first' at the time and it didn't impact it - phew! Today, I'd probably have to sell a body part or two to pay for that "DOH!!!"...


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## jo42 (Jul 21, 2003)

Either http://www.pointts.com/ or http://www.xcopper.com/ will give advice.

Though, I must say, I have seen the aftermath of too many horrific accidents at Hwy 7/Bayview due to speeding and red light running.  

*Slow the [Bleep] Down!!!*


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Back in the day...this would be the mid seventies...I had a 1967 Chevelle SS396 4 speed that was seriously worked over for late night street racing, and I mean racing on the city streets for _money_. Cold hard cash. 

Cash that paid for new speed parts and tires and that financed expensive nights out with my highschool sweetheart. When I lost I was a zero...but when I won, I was the coolest guy around.  

But I got caught speeding so many times that I was always in danger of losing my licence. 

Six points for "driving without due care and attention" (smoking away from the lights against a challenging car and getting rubber in all four gears)...two points for simple speeding...ten points for a long seven grand burnout (with a dead taillight, yet!) 

It all adds up.

At one point, in 1978, I had enough charges pending to tack more than a hundred points onto my already loaded licence. So I went and saw a lawyer and he gave me some sage advice. I will share it with you now:

"Fight EVERY SINGLE CHARGE" Without exception!

He told me that "most of the time the cop won't even show up...and the charges will be dropped". He was right, and I kept my licence through that firestorm of litigation.

Eventually, I smartened up and kept my race activities to a minimum.  

(BTW....I should note here that I NEVER drank and drove. Still don't. I've never even been asked to blow in a breathalyser, nor have I ever caused any sort of accident...not even a fender-bender...in thirty one years of driving. I didn't consider myself any sort of threat to others on the road back then and I don't now.)


Some people are unsafe at any speed and cause accidents in parking lots...others are quite capable of negotiating a wide-open highway at the speeds that it was originally designed for (120+km/hr) without any sort of problems at all. 

Just ask any European.


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## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

Ha... you cats want to see hellish traffic? you need to see drivers in France! Oh my... I was scared to rent a car down there - south of France to boot. Paris must be even crazier. But Nice? that was out of this world. 

I will be fighting this. I'm just trying to get my arguments set. I think that I have a few for sure. 

H!


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## Urban_Legend (May 29, 2003)

Step 1: Take it to court

Step 2: Take the offer of no points and possible lowering of the ticket before the court case starts.

Step 3: Plead guilty and walk out!

If you plan on going in with arguments all on your own, trust me you will lose and NOT have the above options afterwards. Highway 7? The judge already knows what type of drivers are on that highway. Plus it will be the cops word against yours, and they (judge) always favour the cops words if your argument doesn't hold water. Note: You will have to have a STRONG and I mean damn strong argument to win this case of yours in court. I will bet you your ticket that you will lose on your own if the officer shows up to court. 

When you walk in, check to see on the outside of the door how many people the officer has taken to court. That's usually interesting to note before you walk in. The only other thing you have going for you is that the officer doesn't show up.

I hope I don't get to come back to this thread and say "Told you so!"


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## yoyo (Aug 3, 2003)

Fight the ticket to the death! If the charge and points stick, you will pay many times over in added insurance costs for many years.It dosn't matter if it's your first ticket, ins. co. (the banks) are looking for any excuse. They've been using 9/11 for the last while, and now claim a poor market for a reason to stick it to you!!!What about all those profitable years?


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