# iTunes Genius: who needs Pandora?



## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Apple - iTunes - What's new in iTunes

Genius playlists are actually a lot of fun; I'm enjoying this already. Better than "party shuffle."



Apple said:


> Genius Playlists
> *How Genius Works*
> Meet Genius: a brilliant way to create perfect playlists. Play a song, click the Genius button, and iTunes creates a playlist of other songs from your library that go great together. Genius playlists help you discover songs in your library you never knew you had — and rediscover forgotten favorites.
> 
> ...


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

Note that turning on Genius sends information about your media collection in iTunes to Apple. Depending on what you have in there you might want to think about it first!  



> Genius is able to make playlists and give you great recommendations by periodically *sending information about your iTunes library to Apple*. This information will only be sent to Apple if you choose to turn on Genius.
> 
> *The information sent to Apple includes details about the media in your iTunes library such as track names, play counts, and ratings.* This information will be stored with an anonymous Genius ID and not linked to your iTunes Account. When using the iTunes Store or Genius sidebar, Apple will also use your purchase history to give you better recommendations.


http://ax.phobos.apple.com.edgesuite.net/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/userCollectionsLearnMore?sf=143455


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

So do you believe Apple when they say it's anonymous, or do you think they're lying? Based on what?

If they're not lying, what difference does it make if they know how many times you played ".... Hit Me Baby, One More Time?" Oh, wait.




rgray said:


> Note that turning on Genius sends information about your media collection in iTunes to Apple. Depending on what you have in there you might want to think about it first!
> 
> 
> 
> http://ax.phobos.apple.com.edgesuite.net/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/userCollectionsLearnMore?sf=143455


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## BobbyFett (Jan 12, 2005)

Needs a lot of work.

Selecting a song in my library by 90s UK indie band Cable produced suggestions that I was missing tracks by 'Larry The Cable Guy'.

And selecting "Oh Canada" by The Blow (needless to say, it's not a version of the anthem) suggested I might like Ronnie Neuman!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Garry (Jan 27, 2002)

*Hands rgray some tinfoil to make a new hat out of*

Don't use the genius then.. thats simple


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

HowEver said:


> So do you believe Apple when they say it's anonymous, or do you think they're lying? Based on what?
> 
> If they're not lying, what difference does it make if they know how many times you played ".... Hit Me Baby, One More Time?" Oh, wait.


It isn't about them lying, but nothing on the net is truly anonymous. I was referring more to folks like all of us who might have a bit of 'pirate' material....  



Garry said:


> *Hands rgray some tinfoil to make a new hat out of*


I already have these simple instructions....  



Garry said:


> Don't use the genius then.. thats simple


Uh! Duh! I never would have figured that out by myself..... XX) Thanks.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

BobbyFett said:


> Needs a lot of work.
> 
> Selecting a song in my library by 90s UK indie band Cable produced suggestions that I was missing tracks by 'Larry The Cable Guy'.
> 
> And selecting "Oh Canada" by The Blow (needless to say, it's not a version of the anthem) suggested I might like Ronnie Neuman!!!!!!!!!!!!


Yes, Apple did specifically say that the Genius feature becomes *more accurate over time.*

Give it a week and see if you're still getting such bad recommendations.

PS. Peter Gabriel (yes, that one) has a program called "The Filter" that does much the same thing, only using songs you ALREADY own instead. It's free:
The Filter 2.4.5 - MacUpdate

(haven't tested it with iTunes 8, but works fine w/iTunes 7.x)

*ADDED*: _Apologies, after I downloaded iTunes 8 I realised that the Genius playlists ARE created from songs you already own, and that only the Genius SIDEBAR uses songs from the iTMS.

After playing with it, I enjoy the Genius sidebar but feel that The Filter, since it uses three songs to determine its playlist rather than one, is still better than the Genius playlists. Time will tell._


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

rgray said:


> It isn't about them lying, but nothing on the net is truly anonymous. I was referring more to folks like all of us who might have a bit of 'pirate' material....


Not sure how Apple would determine that, even if it were true, and since their objective here is to sell you more music, I'm not sure they actually care or even that it's in their interest to care.


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## milhaus (Jun 1, 2004)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Genius does not provide free, complete previews (30 seconds?) and so I still need Pandora, or at least Last.FM. Not interested in how Apple can sell more music, so no Genius for me: I already have links to iTunes in Last.fm.


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## ender78 (Jan 23, 2005)

This is NO Pandora. The pics that I see are mostly obvious genre recommendations. Some recommendations are nice but I think this system needs a great deal of work.

How can there be no recommendations for something like Joe Satriani.

Kate Perry == Jonas Brothers == Falout Boy


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## ender78 (Jan 23, 2005)

milhaus said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Genius does not provide free, complete previews (30 seconds?) and so I still need Pandora, or at least Last.FM. Not interested in how Apple can sell more music, so no Genius for me: I already have links to iTunes in Last.fm.


Previews are 30 second snipets.


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

No Pandora for us???



> Dear Pandora Visitor,
> 
> We are deeply, deeply sorry to say that due to licensing constraints, we can no longer allow access to Pandora for listeners located outside of the U.S. We will continue to work diligently to realize the vision of a truly global Pandora, but for the time being we are required to restrict its use. We are very sad to have to do this, but there is no other alternative.
> 
> ...


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## mgmitchell (Apr 4, 2008)

I got kicked off Pandora a long time ago. Not missing it, really. There's Deezer out of France that allows the same idea (all legal, playlists, "smartradio" thingy); there's Jango just getting started up with an expanding playlist and "stations" you can start with preferences; and Icebergradio (which just got gobbled up by Accuradio, sadly) with a new look and expanded options. I tend to tinker between the three.


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## JAGflyer (Jan 10, 2005)

I'm holding out on updating to the newest iTunes as I can't seem to access people's shared libraries on the new version.


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## kb244 (Apr 23, 2002)

I used moodlogic back when I had my 15GB iPod which in my opinion did very well and was user supplied cataloging. The Genius idea while nice is rather useless since I have next to no itunes purchased songs in my library tagged with the genius settings.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

I already got a call from Cupertino with some dude laughing at me for having the video of "Take on Me" by AHA.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

chas_m said:


> Not sure how Apple would determine that, even if it were true, and since their objective here is to sell you more music, I'm not sure they actually care or even that it's in their interest to care.


Exactly. Let's tone down the paranoia.


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## Details (Mar 28, 2008)

kb244 said:


> I used moodlogic back when I had my 15GB iPod which in my opinion did very well and was user supplied cataloging. The Genius idea while nice is rather useless since I have next to no itunes purchased songs in my library tagged with the genius settings.


Not sure what you mean here. I have no iTunes purchases, but Genius works on my entire 50GB gallery of songs. Don't think you need to have the songs purchased from iTunes.


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## chasMac (Jul 29, 2008)

Not terribly good at recognizing classical music, even those purchased off of itunes.


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## Details (Mar 28, 2008)

chasMac said:


> Not terribly good at recognizing classical music, even those purchased off of itunes.


I'd think that if you wait a few weeks, while more people start to use it, you'll get better results. Although the playlists I've made using it aren't perfect, it has been working pretty well.

(BTW, those 50GB of songs aren't all pirated. I spent months and months ripping my CD collection)


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## fellfromtree (May 18, 2005)

Lars said:


> Let's tone down the paranoia.


What could go wrong, Bill C60 or not?
You mean it's unreasonable to think the soon-to-be Digital Copyright Police will demand and receive access to the Genius database to ferret out indviduals playlists, and impose infringement fines (on behalf of the media giants)- (eBay is currently in the courts trying to protect their user database from CCRA).

So far the Genius is about as smart as 'Just For You'. Amusing, but not terribly useful. According to the Genius, there are no related suggestions for a substantial portion of my Library. I know I like a few different things, but I can't believe I bought the only copy of all those albums.


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## macsackbut (Dec 15, 2004)

Re: paranoia

While Apple says it is collecting the data anonymously (and there's no reason to believe this isn't true) and I personally have no problem with uploading my iTunes info, it does occur to me that by gathering this data, Apple should be able to get a very good idea of the extent to which its own DRM-free iTunes+ tracks are being pirated. Same goes for tracks purchased on Amazon, which I believe are watermarked in some way. 

Not sure what Apple would do with this information. Since the data are anonymous, they couldn't go after anyone. But, let's say it turns out the data shows that iTunes+ tracks are not being pirated very much at all. That would be great amunition for Apple to take to the hold-out labels and say "see, DRM free music is safe." On the other hand, if it turns out that the iTunes+ tracks are all over the torrent sites, Apple would probably keep that information to itself....


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## neesh0 (Jul 12, 2008)

Its nice, but i cant listen to the full song before I decide whether I like it or not.


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone can tell the difference between a "CD-ripped song" and a pirated (downloaded) song.


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## macsackbut (Dec 15, 2004)

Bjornbro said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone can tell the difference between a "CD-ripped song" and a pirated (downloaded) song.


My assumption is that if a pirated song was originally purchased from iTunes (i.e., an un-DRMed iTunes+ track) or Amazon, it has some watermarking in its metadata, which, at the very least, would identify it as coming from either of those services. That said, if you happen to have such a song in your library but did not, in fact, purchase it, I have no idea a) if you could tell, and b) whether Apple could tell that from the data uploaded to Genius, especially given that the whole process is supposed to be anonymous. 

Maybe I'm completely out to lunch here anyway. One would assume that people who upload music to p2p sites would only do so after first burning it to CD and re-ripping, so maybe my whole argument is moot.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)




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