# video (Digital) camera recommendations



## jmlachance (Nov 6, 2005)

OK Thanks for the help on the laptop to take with me to Kandahar. A while ago I enquired about the best way to transfer vhs to digital and it was mentionned a couple of times that I could use a video camera with input-output capabilities. I might as well make the plunge now and get one but since I'm leaving shortly, don't have time to do any research. Any recommendations for a preferrably mini dv tape camera with the in-out feature?
BTW, I'm bringing some Aplle logo stickers with me and going to look for a good spot to stick one and if I manage to do so, will get it posted here. Was thinking of even starting a MUG. More later...
JM


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## Doogielass (Oct 20, 2007)

*camcorder*

I purchased a JVC camcorder that has a 30 Gig hard drive instead of tapes or disks. It can be downloaded to your computer and processed from there. I can record for 7 HRS. at ultra fine before I have to download. That's a lot of recording. The advantage is no extra costs for disks or tapes, especially on a long trip. You can store your videos for years if you want to instead of having to process them to re-use your media. JVC makes other HD models as well, mine is a few years old already. I am heading to Australia and taking my Macbook with a 500 Gig external HD. I can record 7 hrs a day for 3 weeks and not be full, then process when I get home to my heart's content...Doug


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## Demosthenes X (Sep 23, 2004)

Depends on your price range, but the Panasonic PV-GS320 should be a great camera. It's a 3CCD camera, meaning it will take much better video than most consumer cameras, which are 1CCD (think of the CCD as the sensor that captures light, 3CCD gives you one each for the red, blue, and green, instead of one sensor trying to capture all the colours). It also has the line in/out feature you're looking for. I haven't kept on on digital camcorders for a few years now, but the predecessors to the PV-GS320 were very positively reviewed when I was looking a couple years ago...

Panasonic - Camcorders - PV-GS320
Amazon.com: Panasonic PV-GS320 3.1MP 3CCD MiniDV Camcorder with 10x Optical Image Stabilized Zoom: Electronics

Interestingly, Panasonic has clearly not bothered to update their pricing in light of the stronger Canadian dollar. Amazon lists the more advanced PV-GS500 (an _astounding_ camera) for the same USD price as the 320 is in CDN... if you can, buy from the States. Should be opportunity for good savings.

B&H, located in New York City, comes VERY highly recommended for cameras/camcorders, and lists the GS at USD $400.

pv-gs320 | B&H Photo Video


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## jmlachance (Nov 6, 2005)

Hi again.
Home from Kandahar for a 2 weeks R&R. Still looking to buy a video camera. I didn't have time to buy before leaving and from Kandahar, I'm leery of giving my credit card info over the internet, so I thought I would do so from home before going back.
I've looked at the cameras from B&H that were mentioned earlier and the prices are very good, but these particular models didn't seem to have (unless I'm mistaken) the feature that would allow me to shoot in low lights which I'm going to need. It must also h the afore mentioned analog to digital interface.
What's everybody's opinions on which format is best (hard drive, disk or tapes)?

Thanks

ps Here are some photos (sorry, no Macs) from Kandahar

Eh Mac set - a photoset on Flickr


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

Tapes are best.
Interesting photos, thanks.


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## Doogielass (Oct 20, 2007)

*Camcorder media*

I recently returned from Australia from a 3.5 week tour with my JVC Hard Disk camcorder. There were 46 of us, and I was the only one with a HD camcorder. I downloaded onto my laptop every night, even though I didn't have to. I returned with over 20 hours of ultra fine recording, plus close to 3,000 photos. By the end of the trip, others were scrambling to find more media in a foreign land, or being really particular about what they were recording because they were running out of space. I had NO problem. My limiting factor as I found out was my power supply. Even though I had a spare battery and I charged them up every night, there was no way to recharge during the day, so the max I could record was 4 hours. If I did a long trip again, I would get the big power pack you strap onto your waist, then no problem that way. I can't tell you the number of times the others were out buying AA batteries, or trying to find batteries for their recorders. One guy had a carrying bag with nothing but his recording media, can you imagine the extra expense he had to put out to buy that before he left, on top of the cost of his camcorder? The new ones come with firewire( mac name) which not only downloads about 10 times faster, it can also download directly to an external HD without the laptop! Needless to say, I am happy with the direction of my purchase...Doug


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

> Today's digital camcorders offer several recording formats. Read on to learn the pros and cons of each type.
> 
> MiniDV-Tape Format
> 
> ...


http://thedvshow.com/faq-pro/?action=article&cat_id=022&id=489&lang=


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## Doogielass (Oct 20, 2007)

*Camcorder comparisons*

Your info about JVC HD Camcorders is quite out of date. It sounds like you are a Sony or Panasonic salesman. The processing software for the recorded material allows 4 different formats to record to, including DV, MPEG 4, MPEG 2 and Quicktime for MACs, with a whole load of options including Dolby for audio, and a greater speed and flexibility for editing than you seem to be aware of. The higher the definition, the more space it takes, just like photos. To me, the comparisons you make prove the JVC is the better way to go. I would have needed almost $2,500.00 of media to go with me to Australia, over and above the cost of my Camcorder, to be sure I didn't run out like the others on my trip. After an extensive trip like that, I probably wouldn't need all that media 'til the next trip. The recordable mini DVD's take 3 disks to fill a standard DVD disk, at what cost, and what luggage do you give up for your trip to take it all along with you? I would have needed 125 recordables for my trip!


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## jmlachance (Nov 6, 2005)

Doogielass said:


> The new ones come with firewire( mac name) which not only downloads about 10 times faster, it can also download directly to an external HD without the laptop! Needless to say, I am happy with the direction of my purchase...Doug


That's a feature I like and wasn't aware of. I haven't bought my Macbook yet, not sure if I will due to the harsh environment (fine dust-sand) and the fact there's desktop computer for the internet. I would be practical to download directly to a HD...


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

jmlachance said:


> That's a feature I like and wasn't aware of. I haven't bought my Macbook yet, not sure if I will due to the harsh environment (fine dust-sand) and the fact there's desktop computer for the internet. I would be practical to download directly to a HD...


Interesting, and perhaps best for what you want to do, but I'm still going to recommend good old tape.

HDs crash. Usually when you don't want them to. 

Tapes, properly stored, will last your lifetime. It's always good to have some "hard copy" original footage.

Mind you, I may change my mind over time and advocate HD recording output to tape as a hard backup!


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## jmlachance (Nov 6, 2005)

chas_m said:


> Interesting, and perhaps best for what you want to do, but I'm still going to recommend good old tape.
> 
> HDs crash. Usually when you don't want them to.
> 
> ...


 Well ,reading up on it, it looks like you get better quality footage using tapes over HD, so I haven't ruled out tape yet.


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## Doogielass (Oct 20, 2007)

*Tape vs HD for backup*

This is an excerpt from one of many site comparing the 2 systems. 
"Times have changed and today's system/drive designers have significantly reduced the cost of disk drives making them more competitive with tape systems. Even more important is the fact that tape is slow and sequential making it difficult to find files quickly. Disk drives on the other hand, offer direct random access, significant time saving (time = money), and read/write efficiency that translates into increased productivity and lower operating costs."
"Note: The tape drive takes 20 times longer to backup and retrieve data than disk drive."
(Data Backup: Tape vs. Disk - article on STORAGE search .com)
This site promotes a particular agenda, but the info is headed in the right direction.
I personally use an external 500 Gig HD which I bought for $269.00 CAD one month before it went on sale at Staples for $135.00 CAD...Doug


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Doogielass said:


> This is an excerpt from one of many site comparing the 2 systems.


Thanks much for the info, Doug, but you misread/misunderstood what we were talking about.

The discussion here is about hard-drive based _video cameras_ versus tape-based video cameras, _not_ data backup.

I certainly agree (and have for many years) with you that HDs being so cheap makes tape *backup* systems dinosauric (<- did I just invent a word?) 

But for video cameras, I think I'm going to stick with tape for a while yet. Tape offers superior fidelity, can be digitised in a computer fairly painlessly, and leaves you a permanent backup of the raw footage that will never crash and is easily stored. I'm still leery of putting a hard drive in any device that receives a lot of shock and shaking, like a video camera. For much the same reason, I don't like those video cameras that burn directly onto DVD. WAY too many chances that something will go wrong, plus many are directly INcompatible with Macs. 

That said, solid-state drives will, in a few years, effectively and economically replace tape, and a few examples are out in the field now. I've thought many times of picking up one of those "Flip" MPEG4 vidcams for casual videotaping.


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## Tom Rutledge (Jan 19, 2007)

I use DV tapes for my camera's and find it just as easy to load to the mac. If you decide to go that way bring a waterproof case big enough to store your tapes before and after use. If the dust in Khandhar is anything like when I was in middle east a few times with the UN your going to want to protect the tapes, and from what I was told from the boys coming back it is.


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## neex (Jul 16, 2007)

A word to the wise, don't assume that the newest whizzbang digital video cameras come with firewire output jacks. Most of the newest ones use USB2.0 for some reason (I think due to the PC majority rule as this works well on PCs and not-so-well for macs). I agree with the sentiment about getting a 3 sensor camera as my Panasonic VDR-D300 has stunning clarity and resolution. The sad truth is that many of the camera manufacturers are regarding firewire as 'old technology' that's proprietary and not worth building around (this is especially true of most of the cameras that output to disc or a hard drive). Another suggestion for using some of the lower-buck mini-DV cameras is to get one with a mic jack on it. Sometimes the tape pick-up/roller mechanism noise can manifest itself as 'white noise' on the recording. I don't have the same problem with recording on my DVD camera but as stated above, I highly suggest getting a camera that plays well with firewire...

I hope this helps.
Andrew.





jmlachance said:


> That's a feature I like and wasn't aware of. I haven't bought my Macbook yet, not sure if I will due to the harsh environment (fine dust-sand) and the fact there's desktop computer for the internet. I would be practical to download directly to a HD...


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

neex said:


> A word to the wise, don't assume that the newest whizzbang digital video cameras come with firewire output jacks. Most of the newest ones use USB2.0 for some reason (I think due to the PC majority rule as this works well on PCs and not-so-well for macs).


While I'm probably wrong, I've yet to come across a digital VIDEO camera that didn't have a FW output port (though they often don't call it that). I've seen LOTS of video cameras that can also take stills, so they have a USB port *and* a FW port, and I've HEARD of cameras that don't have a FW port, but I've never seen one.

All the high def video cams I've seen (and I've seen a lot!) have Firewire. No worries for FW's future, particularly with this new standard they're developing (which I hope they'll come up with a better name than SPF3200 or whatever).


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## jmlachance (Nov 6, 2005)

*Re Kandahar*



Tom Rutledge said:


> I use DV tapes for my camera's and find it just as easy to load to the mac. If you decide to go that way bring a waterproof case big enough to store your tapes before and after use. If the dust in Khandhar is anything like when I was in middle east a few times with the UN your going to want to protect the tapes, and from what I was told from the boys coming back it is.



Yeah, the dust there is equivalent to breaking open a trillion vacuum cleaner bags and spreading them all around. There's a good 1 to 2 inch of dust along the roads and when it rains, the whole thing turns to slurry. 
BTW Tom, your pictures are great.

As I originally posted,
I'm looking for a camera that will have the analog to digital feature, but I can't recognize this feature in all the cameras I've looked at on the net. Obviously I need Firewire, but if I want to connect my vcr to it, (rca type connection), just to make sure, is it the AV input that will do this?


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## jlcinc (Dec 13, 2002)

Hi jmlachance,

Almost every DV camera out now has Digital to Analog. But you should check on the specific model when you decide to purchase also Firewire is the same thing as Sony's i.link. What is your price range?

John


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## jmlachance (Nov 6, 2005)

*Re price range*



jlcinc said:


> Hi jmlachance,
> 
> Almost every DV camera out now has Digital to Analog. But you should check on the specific model when you decide to purchase also Firewire is the same thing as Sony's i.link. What is your price range?
> 
> John


Well, most for the buck I guess. I want to able to get good results under low light , a quality product, and obviously the digital to analog. I've looked at a lot of reviews and Panasonic seems to have a better quality rating than most other brands. So, my price range is up to $600 or so but obviously less than that if I can get away with it...


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

Hi,
Good review site....
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/


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## jlcinc (Dec 13, 2002)

Well looking at what is available at Henry's the CANON ZR850 MINI DV CAMCORDER or SONY DCR-HC48 MINI DV CAMCORDER or REFURB-CANON ZR700 MINI DV CAMCORDER (which is a great deal) looks like camera's that might do the job. I went to Panasonics web site and none of the camera's listed had AV in only out. Make sure you check the AV in with the sales person. I have use both Canon and Sony with AV in unfortunately they were higher end so I am not sure if the what the camera's listed here do. I I had the cash this is what I would buy CANON HV20 HD CAMCORDER MINI-DV .

John


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## jmlachance (Nov 6, 2005)

*What about Sony camcorders*

I'm still looking and talking to a sales person in New York (B&H cameras), the Sony DCR-HC96 was highly recommended but I can't figure out how compatible Sony cameras are with Macs. Anyone have a Sony camera they find easy to use on their Mac?


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## steinba (Oct 5, 2007)

I have a minDV and I am looking to go to HD. The thing I'm worried about is storage and replaying the video. For example, if I record onto HD minidv, I will have to save it to my hard drive and then what? I don't have a bluray burner so how can I then show of my hi def memories? 

In addition, to transfer video to my HD, consumes so much memory.

Any thoughts up facilitate my switch to hi def video?


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## jmlachance (Nov 6, 2005)

steinba said:


> I have a minDV and I am looking to go to HD. The thing I'm worried about is storage and replaying the video.
> 
> ?


So which mini dv camera do you have?


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## steinba (Oct 5, 2007)

jmlachance said:


> So which mini dv camera do you have?


its a canon zr40. Decent video cam but not hi def.


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