# Subverting democracy once more....



## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Seems that Harper, the leader of the Conservatives, does not like that Canadians elect their MPs.

The Conservatives have decided to appoint one Sharon Smith* as liaison person for the region of Skeena-Bulkley. 
As a press release reads:


> Dick Harris MP for Cariboo-Prince George has named Houston Mayor and Conservative candidate Sharon Smith as the person that residents of Skeena-Bulkley Valley can contact when they have concerns or issues with the federal government.
> 
> Harris said, “As Chairman of the BC Caucus of Conservative MPs, I am pleased that Sharon has accepted this role, and I know the constituents of Skeena-Bulkley Valley will derive a huge benefit from having direct contact with government, something that they have not had since 2004.
> 
> ...


http://www.terracedaily.ca/cgi-bin/show_sitemap_article.cgi?ID=954

I guess their elected official Mr. Cullen is not good enough to represent his district so the Connies decide to appoint one.

I wonder if she will get an office and a salary? Hey Fortier did something similar in Vaudreil-Soulange....

Is this a new low for Canadian politics? Seems that way.
And for those that will mock the source coming from a small newpaper here it is from the horse's mouth
http://www.cbc.ca/daybreaknorth/daybreak_again.html (August 22 Dick Harris).



* As for Sharon Smith, this is the not the first time she's made a mockery of the public office....








Read more about her at:
http://www.garth.ca/weblog/2007/08/26/screwy-in-skeena
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1071066905478_44/?hub=Canada


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

AS: Please keep your fetishes to yourself.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

*official representative to the federal government*

Glad to see that you are not paying attention once again.

I guess you have no qualms about the Connies appointing an un-elected official there. If the Libbies ever did anything similar you and your simian friends would rightfully raise a stink about the arrogance of it. 

As for the mayor - she's the one who lacked judgement using a public office for private pictures - I'm sure that if you search around you can find the great Canadian beaver. But do keep diverting the issue MF...

Can't wait for Harper to appoint a PM for my province... beejacon

The picture does show the lack of common sense she has. She complained to the RCMP after the picture was released on the internet. I find it hard to take seriously someone who used the Mayoral Chain, mayor's chair and office (paid by the taxpayer) would have sound judgement.

If you want to focus on the image go ahead - but the issue here is the assault on democracy by Harper.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

No, the ethics are a problem. I question your act of placing the photo underneath. It shows you have little confidence in your actual argument.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Macfury said:


> No, the ethics are a problem. I question your act of placing the photo underneath. It shows you have little confidence in your actual argument.


the truth shall set you free


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

How is this subverting democracy?

The people of Skeena-Bulkley Valley now have two people they can go to with concerns about the federal government - their elected NDP MP, and a local Conservative Candidate.

This gives people MORE options. The Conservative appointee has no power. She is simply a liaison to the Conservative party for the people. When was the last time you saw the NDP and Conservatives get along?


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

guytoronto said:


> How is this subverting democracy?
> 
> The people of Skeena-Bulkley Valley now have two people they can go to with concerns about the federal government - their elected NDP MP, and a local Conservative Candidate.
> 
> This gives people MORE options. The Conservative appointee has no power. She is simply a liaison to the Conservative party for the people. When was the last time you saw the NDP and Conservatives get along?


Let's just do away with elections and appoint representatives for regions then.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

guytoronto said:


> How is this subverting democracy?
> 
> The people of Skeena-Bulkley Valley now have two people they can go to with concerns about the federal government - their elected NDP MP, and a local Conservative Candidate.
> 
> This gives people MORE options. The Conservative appointee has no power. She is simply a liaison to the Conservative party for the people. When was the last time you saw the NDP and Conservatives get along?


the con gov't should be listening to the duly elected MP for that riding
NOT appointing one of their hacks instead

this has got to be a new harper low


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

ArtistSeries said:


> Let's just do away with elections and appoint representatives for regions then.


only for those that don't vote conservative
Alberta, for example, will be exempt


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Macfury said:


> No, the ethics are a problem. I question your act of placing the photo underneath. It shows you have little confidence in your actual argument.


seems Her Honour has lots of confidence in her "arguments"
 

where is the outrage at her abuse of the office paid for by the people, not to mention the use of her mayoral chain for cheeky photos

as the late PET said; "the state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation" but this isn't her bedroom - it's the office where she represents the people

and she's a con candidate


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

Strange that you would double post this thread. Maybe that picture is causing you some distractions? :lmao:


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> only for those that don't vote conservative
> Alberta, for example, will be exempt


Why do you hold such contempt and disrespect for the people of Alberta?

They use the same democratic process you use in Ontario to elect their provincial governments. I don't see one other member of this board constantly attacking Ontario voters, or any other province for that matter, for their choices over the years.

It just might be time to hang this one up Michael. It doesn't reflect well on you.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

AS must have really been "bothered" by that photo to share it with all of us. I don't see how the photo cost the taxpayer any money, but I do see how it has cost AS his dignity.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Vandave said:


> Strange that you would double post this thread. Maybe that picture is causing you some distractions? :lmao:


Double post was due to the system not being responsive. 
But it's nice to see connies focusing on it instead of the issue.


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## MacGuiver (Sep 6, 2002)

AS I'm surprised a good open minded Liberal like yourself has a problem with that photo. Its all the rage in Liberal circles to show your ass. She joins the ranks of respected Liberals "Bare ass Bob Ray" and "Naked in the Fridge Scott Bryson". Isn't this the kind of thing progressive minded folk like yourself love to see? A bit of that good old 1960s counter culture.:heybaby: 

Cheers
MacGuiver


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> Double post was due to the system not being responsive.
> But it's nice to see connies focusing on it instead of the issue.


Who's focussing on the photo issue now? You brought it into this discussion. How is it relevant? 

Interesting side story... I have spent many a summer in Houston BC as my family is originally from there and my aunt is the local newspaper publisher.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

I see you had no comment about an obese person wearing a bikini but someone showing poor judgment by using the public office (taxpayer’s money) somehow makes me look bad? 
The CPC that wants us to believe they are the moral defenders of all that is pure and just get caught with their pants down and now takes on offence to that. The mayor is cavorting with mayoral chain for her husband. I fail to see how this qualifies for official duties. One would think that her judgment would be better…

Your WASP behavior aside, it shows the contempt that some have for public office and shows fits well with the pattern here. So you don’t like democracy and that people have vote for their choice? Just bypass all those pesky elections and appoint someone. I wonder how much this representative will get in compensation. This is a complete disregard for the elected official by placing a party hack as official representative to the government in the region.

Mac - I did not see Ray or Brison complain like she has... way to misrepresent the facts.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Too bad you can't go back and remove the photo now without everyone noticing, huh AS? I think you can count yourself among the people "caught with their pants down."


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Macfury said:


> Too bad you can't go back and remove the photo now without everyone noticing, huh AS? I think you can count yourself among the people "caught with their pants down."


Why would I even want to do that? - But hey, keep on diverting and making excuses for fascist behaviour.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Both my MP (Conservative) and my MLA (Liberal) have local constituency offices. Each have a full time person manning that office. That person is the liaison for members of the riding to consult with and get answers to their questions. 

I submit that fully 75% of such inquiries are never seen by the MP or the MLA. This has been the norm here for over 20 years now. 

How is this any different?

It does nothing but enhance democracy by cutting red tape and serving voters of any political persuasion.

In many cases this person is better known to constituents than the MP or MLA.


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## Fink-Nottle (Feb 25, 2001)

Histrionics aside, I'm broadly in agreement with 'ArtistSeries' on this issue. I assume that Smith is not being paid to provide this added service but is hoping that it will help slingshot her into office at the next federal election. If I was a constituent of this riding though my natural inclination would be to vote against her and the party on grounds of arrogance and contempt for democracy. Perhaps in trying to win support in Quebec the Conservatives have learned a trick or two from Duplessis.

I hope the Conservatives realize this is a mistake and apologize. Although she may proudly claim to be wearing the garb of a new replacement MP, I think it's rather obvious that she actually has no clothes...


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> I see you had no comment about an obese person wearing a bikini but someone showing poor judgment by using the public office (taxpayer’s money) somehow makes me look bad?
> The CPC that wants us to believe they are the moral defenders of all that is pure and just get caught with their pants down and now takes on offence to that. The mayor is cavorting with mayoral chain for her husband. I fail to see how this qualifies for official duties. One would think that her judgment would be better…


I didn't even post or keep up with that thread. I am not easily offended and I don't go around expressing moral outrage anytime somebody posts something sombody else might not like. If they don't like it, then tough titties... errr... bad choice of words...

You do realize that she was the Mayor at the time of the incident and that it had nothing to do whatsoever with the Conservative Party, don't you?

Obviously it wasn't good judgment, but at the same time... BFD. :lmao: 

If you were American, I assume you would have led the charge to impeach Bill Clinton for using his office and position inappropriately.  



ArtistSeries said:


> Your WASP behavior aside, it shows the contempt that some have for public office and shows fits well with the pattern here.


WASP? :lmao: I haven't been called that for sometime.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

SINC said:


> Both my MP (Conservative) and my MLA (Liberal) have local constituency offices.
> 
> How is this any different?


The message is very clear - the PM will ignore any MP who is not Conservative and appoint a party hack to subvert democracy.

A constituency office is not the same as what has happened here. She may have an office but now has a new title....


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

I find these political antics to be entirely distateful. This nation needs to embrace democratic ideals, not reject them out of hand.

It was Adolf Hitler who used democratic means to gain election to the Reichstag, and then used strong armed tactics and the rules of a democratic constitution in order to suppress democracy. In the place of elected local leadership, Herr Hitler imposed the will of the NSDAP through the selection of Gauleiters, skipping over those who were actually elected.

This is little different, and as Canada has not had any notion of democracy since the coup d'etat staged by St. Laurent (who deposed the democratically elected Mackenzie King); and furthered by the coup d'etat staged by Herr Martin against the democratically elected Chretien. This is but one more small step in the imposition of an immoral and unelected government upon the citizens of this nation.

An MP is elected as the representative for a constituency - and it should stand as that. Anything less is a slap in the face of Canada, its constitution and its people. Shame - shame on Herr Harper - Seig Heil!


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

So why all the attacks on the Conservatives?

Where are the attacks on the local NDP MP?

If the local NDP MP refuses to communicate effectively with the Conservatives, should the Conservatives just give up on that riding?

If all the local NDP MP does is bad mouth the Conservatives, sits in the back corner of the Commons, and never addresses the riding's concerns, should the Conservatives abandon the riding?

This isn't a simple "Conseratives are evil" issue. If the NDP MP isn't doing his job, the Conservatives are doing the riding a huge service having a local liaison.


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## JumboJones (Feb 21, 2001)

EvanPitts said:


> I find these political antics to be entirely distateful. This nation needs to embrace democratic ideals, not reject them out of hand.
> 
> It was Adolf Hitler who used democratic means to gain election to the Reichstag, and then used strong armed tactics and the rules of a democratic constitution in order to suppress democracy. In the place of elected local leadership, Herr Hitler imposed the will of the NSDAP through the selection of Gauleiters, skipping over those who were actually elected.
> 
> ...


And I thought AS's reaction was a little dramatic, but this takes the cake, Bravo, drama queen, Bravo.


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## JumboJones (Feb 21, 2001)

guytoronto said:


> So why all the attacks on the Conservatives?
> 
> Where are the attacks on the local NDP MP?
> 
> ...


Because it doesn't fit AS's and MS's mandate of kicking dirt into the face of Steven Harper. They could have appointed Jean Chretien, it still would have been a neo-con move to them.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

JumboJones said:


> Because it doesn't fit AS's and MS's mandate of kicking dirt into the face of Steven Harper.


The only thing missing was some good old Alberta bashing.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

Another sideline to this story... My father ran for the federal Liberals in that riding in 1972 under Trudeau.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Mmmmmmm. This topic just became Hitlericious. Thanks EvanPitts.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

MacGuiver said:


> AS I'm surprised a good open minded Liberal like yourself has a problem with that photo.


I'm voting BQ next election but continue on.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

guytoronto said:


> If the NDP MP isn't doing his job, the Conservatives are doing the riding a huge service having a local liaison.


If the NDP MP is not doing his job, he will be voted out of office next election. Placing a partisan hack is not democracy.


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## rondini (Dec 6, 2001)

Given the predominantly left leaning views of the average BC resident, I have a feeling this will backfire on Col. Burkhalter.... errr Stephen Harper


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> If the NDP MP is not doing his job, he will be voted out of office next election. Placing a partisan hack is not democracy.


Please define democrazy then please, because if the NDP MP is not doing his job, then the riding is not being democratically represented in Ottawa. Seems like you are more concerned with bashing Stephen Harper than finding a solution to make sure the people's voices are heard.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

rondini said:


> Given the predominantly left leaning views of the average BC resident, I have a feeling this will backfire on Col. Burkhalter.... errr Stephen Harper


The current breakdown of seats in BC is:

17 Conservative
9 Liberal
10 NDP

I would suggest that is centre-right, not left leaning.

Our current provincial government is on it's second term and is centre-right.


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

guytoronto said:


> Please define democrazy then please, because if the NDP MP is not doing his job, then the riding is not being democratically represented in Ottawa. Seems like you are more concerned with bashing Stephen Harper than finding a solution to make sure the people's voices are heard.


Democracy, from the Greek meaning People Power...

The MP is in fact, 'doing his job', and this is just a little game that the Harper Party is playing. In real terms, it is corruption, out and out corruption. Giving someone a job that does not exist that they do not deserve just because the electorate decided that Harper and his cronies do not quite make the grade. It is subversion at best, these nefarious activities that plague the nation. Harper only won the election because he is more of a Liberal namby-pamby than the Liberals. If he was a man of principles and scruples, he would have supported his cabinet ministers instead of firing them, just to make the communist papers like the Globe & Mail and The Star happier...

Now that's Hitler, err... Harper bashing...


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## rondini (Dec 6, 2001)

Vandave said:


> The current breakdown of seats in BC is:
> 
> 17 Conservative
> 9 Liberal
> ...


so total of 19 on the left or leftish, and 17 on the right or brown-shirtish?


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## rondini (Dec 6, 2001)

EvanPitts said:


> just to make the communist papers like the Globe & Mail and The Star happier...
> 
> Now that's Hitler, err... Harper bashing...


Wow, that's the first time i have ever seen the Star and the Globe lumped into the same pile!!!!!


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

Vandave said:


> Our current provincial government is on it's second term and is centre-right.


BC provincial Liberals ARE NOT CENTRE RIGHT! They are the remnants of the Social Credit party. A right wing party.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

martman said:


> BC provincial Liberals ARE NOT CENTRE RIGHT! They are the remnants of the Social Credit party. A right wing party.


What do you know about the BC Liberal Party? I support them at election time and I know their policies quite well. They are definitely a centre to centre-right party.

 

Please demonstrate otherwise.


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

Vandave said:


> You are clueless.


You are a *****. What is your point here?






response altered by request of mod


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

Vandave said:


> They are definitely a centre to centre-right party.
> 
> 
> 
> Please demonstrate otherwise.


Top Donors Thrive under BC Liberals :: News :: thetyee.ca


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

guytoronto said:


> Please define democrazy then please, because if the NDP MP is not doing his job, then the riding is not being democratically represented in Ottawa. Seems like you are more concerned with bashing Stephen Harper than finding a solution to make sure the people's voices are heard.


That's quite the assumption there that the NDP MP is not doing his job.

But let's leave that fatuous little remark off the table for now. 
The NDP MP was elected to represent the voters in his area. What you are saying is that it's perfectly acceptable that the connies invent a post, give it to one of their hacks and tell people "now she is your direct link to Ottawa".

So basically, it's fine to short circuit the will of the people if it serves your political ends? No wonder Harper is the Leader of the Conservative party and not PM of all Canadians. 

The "liaison" appointment already exist: it's the MP. He was voted there, and not "appointment" there by King Stevie. If you can't see the difference between democracy and some authoritarian anti-democratic goon appointing to a bogus position then maybe democracy deserves to be subverted.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

martman said:


> Top Donors Thrive under BC Liberals :: News :: thetyee.ca


The best you can do is a Tyee article from 2005? 

Back to google.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

I think Garth Turner sums it up nicely:


> Doesn’t Skeena-Bulkley Valley already have a member of Parliament, whose job it is to represent the constituents? Will Candidate Smith be granted more rights and privileges to do this job, since she is a Conservative? Are MP Harris and backroomer Finley telling voters in the riding that an NDP MP is not good enough?
> 
> Actually, yes.
> 
> ...


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> That's quite the assumption there that the NDP MP is not doing his job.


It's quite the assumption that the Conservatives are subverting democracy.



ArtistSeries said:


> The NDP MP was elected to represent the voters in his area. What you are saying is that it's perfectly acceptable that the connies invent a post, give it to one of their hacks and tell people "now she is your direct link to Ottawa".


If the NDP MP is not communicating effectively with the Conservative party the riding's voice, then yes.



ArtistSeries said:


> So basically, it's fine to short circuit the will of the people if it serves your political ends?


No. Maybe the will of the people is to have a more direct voice with the Conservative party.



ArtistSeries said:


> No wonder Harper is the Leader of the Conservative party and not PM of all Canadians.


Who's subverting democracy now? Claiming the Harper is not the PM of Canada when he obviously is shows how hypocritical you are. You stomp and shout that a democratically elected representative (the NDP MP) isn't recognized as such, then state that a democratically elected representative (the PM) doesn't deserve recognition.



ArtistSeries said:


> The "liaison" appointment already exist: it's the MP. He was voted there, and not "appointment" there by King Stevie.


No. The NDP MP is the representative in the House Of Commons. He is under no obligation to liaise with the Conservatives.



ArtistSeries said:


> If you can't see the difference between democracy and some authoritarian anti-democratic goon appointing to a bogus position then maybe democracy deserves to be subverted.


Goon?


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

guytoronto said:


> Who's subverting democracy now? Claiming the Harper is not the PM of Canada when he obviously is shows how hypocritical you are. You stomp and shout that a democratically elected representative (the NDP MP) isn't recognized as such, then state that a democratically elected representative (the PM) doesn't deserve recognition.


It's called tit-for-tat, and follows your logic. You don't like the elected official, just bypass him. 

No matter how you try to justify it, it is subverting democracy. The message is clear from the Connie - and to be honest, if the Libs or the NDP did the same, I'd be as outraged.

It's a partisan move that stinks - I'm surprised that you support it.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

imagine if the Liberals pulled something like on the only 2 PC MPs that were elected

we'd hear cries of "communism" and this was a part that lost national standing due to its dismal (post mulroney) showing in that election


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

I'm just playing devils advocate here. We don't know the entire politic situation in that riding. What does the existing NDP MP have to say about the situation?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> only for those that don't vote conservative
> Alberta, for example, will be exempt





SINC said:


> Why do you hold such contempt and disrespect for the people of Alberta?
> 
> They use the same democratic process you use in Ontario to elect their provincial governments. I don't see one other member of this board constantly attacking Ontario voters, or any other province for that matter, for their choices over the years.
> 
> It just might be time to hang this one up Michael. It doesn't reflect well on you.


I guess for once MACSPECTRUM is speechless?


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

We just have contempt for Alberta because they won't share their oil wealth with the rest of Canada...oh, and they haven't deported SINC yet.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

SINC said:


> I guess for once MACSPECTRUM is speechless?


my lack of response on a nice beautiful warm late summer day is easily understood

1. round of golf
2. after golf went straight to dental surgeon - triple tooth extraction
3. after surgery, took dentist out for a spin in my car as he's looking to buy a BMW and have never driven in one, now he's hooked
4. pick up Rx for post operative issues and easy to eat, bland good during healing period
5. came home and played with "million dollar cat" (as my friends have nicknamed her) - after all a cat that saves your life is worth some daily attention
6. catch up on email
7. ran some speed tests since ISP put me on new "beam" to see if it helps my seed issues

that's a pretty full day ya know

i'm now making myself happy eating vanilla hagen-dasz "creme glace"


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## hUssain (Aug 10, 2007)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> imagine if the Liberals pulled something like on the only 2 PC MPs that were elected
> 
> we'd hear cries of "communism" and this was a part that lost national standing due to its dismal (post mulroney) showing in that election


Power to the people! It's time to take down the government since no one can do a good job (I don't think NDP is ready for prime time, and well the green party is certainly not, also a note, I'm not communist, on paper it's a good idea, but when though is put into it, it fails.)


As guytoronto mentioned, we don't know what it's like there. It could have been a hairline win for the Liberals, and the conservative voters may refuse to talk to their reprensentative, and to combat this the conservative party decided to insert their own. How do the constituents feel about this?


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

hUssain said:


> Power to the people! It's time to take down the government since no one can do a good job (I don't think NDP is ready for prime time, and well the green party is certainly not, also a note, I'm not communist, on paper it's a good idea, but when though is put into it, it fails.)
> 
> 
> As guytoronto mentioned, we don't know what it's like there. It could have been a hairline win for the Liberals, and the conservative voters may refuse to talk to their reprensentative, and to combat this the conservative party decided to insert their own. u]How do the constituents feel about this?[/u]


as far as harpo et al are concerned and have shown; it doesn't matter how the people feel, just how they vote

the insertion of the "mayor" (don't know if I can keep calling her that after she posed nude, albeit dressed in her mayoral chains on her mayoral desk chair) who just happens to be the con candidate in the next election and it's gonna be close...


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> as far as harpo et al are concerned and have shown; it doesn't matter how the people feel, just how they vote


That's quite the ignorant statement, based primarily on your personal feelings. Leading a minority government, Harper and the Conservatives pretty well can't do ANYTHING without the support of one of the other parties. So if you throw those accusations at the Conservatives, you are throwing them at the Liberals, Bloc, and NDP as well.



MACSPECTRUM said:


> the insertion of the "mayor" (don't know if I can keep calling her that after she posed nude, albeit dressed in her mayoral chains on her mayoral desk chair)


WTF? Would you have preferred she was wearing a burka? Heck, why does she even have a job? She should be at home in the kitchen!


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

guytoronto said:


> That's quite the ignorant statement, based primarily on your personal feelings. Leading a minority government, Harper and the Conservatives pretty well can't do ANYTHING without the support of one of the other parties. So if you throw those accusations at the Conservatives, you are throwing them at the Liberals, Bloc, and NDP as well.
> 
> 
> WTF? Would you have preferred she was wearing a burka? Heck, why does she even have a job? She should be at home in the kitchen!


as for your first set of blathering, if harpo cares so much about poorer Canadians why did he RAISE the tax rate on the lowest income tax bracket while LOWERING the tax rate on higher income tax brackets?

as for your second set of blathering, why is it ok for an elected official to use their publicly funded offices and mayoral chain to pose nude in?

the burka is a traditional clothing item worn by many canadians
why couldn't "her honour" pose nude for pix in her private home?
but, no, she had to pose nude in her mayoral chain and in her office

so much for respect for the office, eh?

but I do agree with you that she shouldn't have the job of mayor


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

guytoronto said:


> I'm just playing devils advocate here. We don't know the entire politic situation in that riding. What does the existing NDP MP have to say about the situation?


He's pissed and you can listen to the interview in the first link I posted.
As for the riding results, they are easy to google.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I posted this:



MACSPECTRUM said:


> only for those that don't vote conservative
> Alberta, for example, will be exempt





SINC said:


> Why do you hold such contempt and disrespect for the people of Alberta?
> 
> They use the same democratic process you use in Ontario to elect their provincial governments. I don't see one other member of this board constantly attacking Ontario voters, or any other province for that matter, for their choices over the years.
> 
> It just might be time to hang this one up Michael. It doesn't reflect well on you.


I guess for once MACSPECTRUM is speechless?

MACSPECTRUM replied:



MACSPECTRUM said:


> my lack of response on a nice beautiful warm late summer day is easily understood
> 
> 1. round of golf
> 2. after golf went straight to dental surgeon - triple tooth extraction
> ...


It was the usual dodge by changing the subject and not answering the question.

I ask again, “Why do you hold such contempt and disrespect for the people of Alberta?”


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

SINC said:


> It was the usual dodge by changing the subject and not answering the question.


'Spec is ehmac's own little Limbaugh (who is littler?) and O'Reilly, all rolled into one bitter package. 

For you to point out the dodge is "Rovian" (to 'Spec) or something like that. Sort of like how when I point out 'Specs' fake concern for poor Canadians -- when they're too poor, he does not care at all because they no longer serve his partisan needs or he does not want them near his car and home, perhaps -- I'm a "neo con" and, strangely enough, something irrelevant about oil and teats is mentioned.


----------



## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

SINC said:


> I ask again, “Why do you hold such contempt and disrespect for the people of Alberta?”


How many times to you beat your wife SINC?
- Same kind of question.



And before you try and smear me, I'm rather indifferent to people from Alberta. What I don't like is oil companies that pollute yet would like "us" to pay for the dammage they are doing while making record profits.


----------



## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

guytoronto said:


> WTF? Would you have preferred she was wearing a burka? Heck, why does she even have a job? She should be at home in the kitchen!


If that picture had been taken in privacy instead of the public office then you'd have a point. Instead she decided to live a little fantasy using public paid for "tools" (and then went to complain to the RCMP about it).


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ArtistSeries said:


> How many times to you beat your wife SINC?
> - Same kind of question.


Typical abusive response toward me to a question I did not ask you. :yawn:


----------



## hUssain (Aug 10, 2007)

ArtistSeries said:


> He's pissed and you can listen to the interview in the first link I posted.
> As for the riding results, they are easy to google.


The results are far enough not to be considered a hairline victory. How do the voters feel? (including NDP and Conservative voters)

As was mentioned before the NDP MP is still the MP, he has more power than her, since he actually has the seat, I think this is being taken out of context, major news networks are almost completly ignoring this, any reporter would love a nice scandal like this. She could simply be a spokeperson for the conservatives, where issues with current policy can be explained, all these pages is based on very little information.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

hUssain said:


> ...all these pages are based on very little information.


Typical. AS's outrage is usually expressed in inverse proportion to the amount of information available.


----------



## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Macfury said:


> Typical. AS's outrage is usually expressed in inverse proportion to the amount of information available.


I know it's hard for you to believe anything beyond the Connie press releases....


----------



## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> as for your first set of blathering, if harpo cares so much about poorer Canadians why did he RAISE the tax rate on the lowest income tax bracket while LOWERING the tax rate on higher income tax brackets?


But remember that he gave money back to families so that kids can play hockey! I think policies like this demonstrate that Harper should be made to sit in a corner of Parliament with a DUNCE cap on. Of course, if every legislator that promulgated stupid policies were made to sit in the corner with a DUNCE cap on, we'd have to build a special room with at least 300 corners in it...



> as for your second set of blathering, why is it ok for an elected official to use their publicly funded offices and mayoral chain to pose nude in?


How could anyone say it was ok? It was not OK in Rome. See Tacitus or Gibbon for such details...



> the burka is a traditional clothing item worn by many canadians


????????! It is a shame that the subjugation and enslavement of women is even allowed in a free nation. Just because it is the policy of the Taliban does not mean it is acceptable.



> so much for respect for the office, eh?


Not only did she mock the office of Mayor, she let down all of her own constituents through her demonstration of disrespect. If she was elected to Parliament, what new and novel ways of disrespect will she come up with? Too bad Crosby is not in Parliament, he would go to town on her just like he did with Sheila...


----------



## JumboJones (Feb 21, 2001)

EvanPitts said:


> But remember that he gave money back to families so that kids can play hockey!


Because childhood obesity isn't a problem in Canada. I thought this was a great idea and should be extended to adults, I think if gym memberships were tax deductable I think more people would be active. But that is just neo-con of me to think we need give tax breaks instead of creating new taxes.


----------



## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

JumboJones said:


> Because childhood obesity isn't a problem in Canada. I thought this was a great idea and should be extended to adults, I think if gym memberships were tax deductable I think more people would be active. But that is just neo-con of me to think we need give tax breaks instead of creating new taxes.


Why not reduce all taxes and let us decide where we want to spend our money?


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

ArtistSeries said:


> Why not reduce all taxes and let us decide where we want to spend our money?


You rejected that same logic when you were arguing for public funded daycare. What a damned hypocrite. I guess the logic only applies when you're on the receiving end of the goody machine.


----------



## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Hardly MF. 

You never read the long explanations and seem to focus on short sound bytes. Still the dry-humping dog I see....


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

ArtistSeries said:


> dry-humping dog


Nekkid mayors and dry-humping dogs--your fantasy life is certainly populated with a colourful array of characters.


----------



## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

The king of diverting...


----------



## martman (May 5, 2005)

Vandave said:


> The point here is that as usual, you are speaking out of your ass. Go **** yourself.


deleted by request of mod


----------



## martman (May 5, 2005)

Vandave said:


> Nice work dumbass. The best you can do is a Tyee article from 2005?
> 
> Back to google.


Nice response *****. Read the article and respond instead of name calling. This article clearly shows a right wing agenda on the part of the BC Liberals. Notice the anti-union bent among other issues. Of course you don't have a real response so you resort to name calling. Sad really.





response altered by request of mod


----------



## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

martman said:


> Nice response F*ckhead. Read the article and respond instead of name calling. This article clearly shows a right wing agenda on the part of the BC Liberals. Notice the anti-union bent among other issues. Of course you don't have a real response so you resort to name calling. Sad really.


Are you that shortsighted? You started by calling me a derogatory name. Feel free to look back in this thread.

Do you honestly believe a Tyee article supports your stance? Seriously? No, I am really serious here, do you? You have not posted or articulated ANYTHING on your own. I gave you a chance and you have had days to do so. Yet all you can find is an article from the Tyee.  

Do you know anything about BC? Have you ever been here? Can you find it on a map?


----------



## martman (May 5, 2005)

Vandave said:


> Are you that shortsighted? You started by calling me a derogatory name. Feel free to look back in this thread.


No I didn't. I did look back just to be sure. You are the one who started with the ad hominem attacks in this thread not I.


----------



## martman (May 5, 2005)

This is what I said:



martman said:


> BC provincial Liberals ARE NOT CENTRE RIGHT! They are the remnants of the Social Credit party. A right wing party.


This is the full quote so don't go trying to spread lies about my conduct.


----------



## martman (May 5, 2005)

Vandave said:


> Do you honestly believe a Tyee article supports your stance? Seriously? No, I am really serious here, do you?


Why yes I do. Read the article. 
I can tell by your continued insults that you have nothing useful to say. Since you have no argument you attack. Classy.


----------



## martman (May 5, 2005)

Vandave said:


> Do you know anything about BC? Have you ever been here? Can you find it on a map?


This doesn't deserve any response. If you have nothing to say keep you mouth shut instead of being nasty.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

martman said:


> Nice response F*ckhead. Read the article and respond instead of name calling.


Tsk, tsk. Doing exactly what you are complaining about solves nothing.

That is the kind of language that makes ehMacers with children old enough to participate cringe.

Apologies required all round in this thread IMHO.

(And I am fully aware that I am no angel.)


----------



## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

Language like that is definitely uncalled for. The harshest I've ever called somebody is an idiot. Anything beyond that just goes to show how ignorant some people are.


----------



## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

martman said:


> Why yes I do. Read the article.
> I can tell by your continued insults that you have nothing useful to say. Since you have no argument you attack. Classy.


I read the article.

To summarize their faulty logic.... Mining companies, forest companies and developers are the largest donars to the BC Provincial Liberal Party. In the past, similar companies have donated to right wing parties. Therefore, the BC Liberal Party is purely a right wing party.

And you buy into this?

How about actually quoting some of thier policies? Or the effect of their policies?

BC was almost DESTROYED by the NDP. While the rest of North America boomed in the 1990's, we had a crappy economy. Businesses and people were leaving in the droves. I know. I lived here and lived through it.

The BC Liberals got government spending under control and have now had a number of consecutive surpluses. Our bond rating is now AAA. We have the lowest provincial tax in the country. Businesses are flourishing. Employment has never been higher. Unemployment has never been lower. Wages are growing faster than anywhere else in Canada (except maybe Alberta). The people who left in the 90's are coming back to BC. Investment is soaring. Native land claims are finally being settled. The environment is a high priority and BC has a GHG strategy moving forward. This is one of the best times the province has seen and it was started by the BC Liberal government. This is the best performing government I have ever lived under both federally and provincially. Times are good again. People are proud to say they are from BC again. People are optimistic about the future. 

The BC Liberals recently ran on a campaign of a golden decade. They key goals are as follows:

1. To make B.C. the best educated, most literate jurisdiction on the continent.
2. To lead the way in North America in healthy living and physical fitness.
3. To build the best system of support in Canada for persons with disabilities, special needs, children at risk and seniors.
4. To lead the world in sustainable environmental management, with the best air and water quality, and the best fisheries management, bar none.
5. To create more jobs per capita than anywhere else in Canada.

Does that sound like a right wing government to you? Or do you think my characterization of centre-right is more accurate. 

So ya, my initial comment on your being clueless is completely accurate.


----------



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

ArtistSeries said:


> Why not reduce all taxes and let us decide where we want to spend our money?


exactement
at the very least DON'T raise the income tax on the poorest income tax payers while REDUCING the income tax rate on wealthier income tax payers

again, it just reeks of the cons trying to appease their base of donors, as bush did when he cut taxes on the richest while in the middle of a war

and how's the U.S. economy doing?
wanna buy a condo in Florida for the price of swampland?


----------



## Fink-Nottle (Feb 25, 2001)

ArtistSeries wrote:


> Why not reduce all taxes and let us decide where we want to spend our money?


MACSPECTRUM wrote:


> exactement


What's happening here... a sudden lurch to the right from two of our most stalwart lefties? Surely you're not saying that individuals know their needs better than their governments? Harper and co. are clearly rubbing off on you...


----------



## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Fink-Nottle said:


> ArtistSeries wrote:
> MACSPECTRUM wrote:
> 
> What's happening here... a sudden lurch to the right from two of our most stalwart lefties? Surely you're not saying that individuals know their needs better than their governments? Harper and co. are clearly rubbing off on you...


If I were a stalwart lefty, I'd be NDP.
I also decry corporate welfare, and wonder why connies seem to approve of that...

As for the Harper's economics - I wonder why he has increased spending (more than the Liberals), is running giant surpluses (after complaining about them when it happened to Martin), and giving no-bid contracts in record proportions. So he's hardly rubbing off on me...


----------



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Fink-Nottle said:


> ArtistSeries wrote:
> MACSPECTRUM wrote:
> 
> What's happening here... a sudden lurch to the right from two of our most stalwart lefties? Surely you're not saying that individuals know their needs better than their governments? Harper and co. are clearly rubbing off on you...


i'm saying if harpo LOWERS taxes for the richest, don't the poorest deserve a break too?
but instead harpo RAISES the income tax rate on the poorest canadians
seems rather "feudal lord"[insert black and amiel joke here] to me

raise taxes on the peasant class

nice, very nice


----------



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

ArtistSeries said:


> If I were a stalwart lefty, I'd be NDP.
> I also decry corporate welfare, and wonder why connies seem to approve of that...
> 
> As for the Harper's economics - I wonder why he has increased spending (more than the Liberals), is running giant surpluses (after complaining about them when it happened to Martin), and giving no-bid contracts in record proportions. So he's hardly rubbing off on me...


one might say Harpo is "rubbing you the wrong way"


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I think in future I will refer to Dion and the Libs as "Dijon".

Seems as fittingly insulting as Harpo and serves absolutely no purpose, just like the term Harpo.

But it will make me feel as smug as a child in the playground shouting stupid names. Or just like 'Spec. Makes no difference.


----------



## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

SINC said:


> I think in future I will refer to Dion and the Libs as "Dijon".
> 
> Seems as fittingly insulting as Harpo and serves absolutely no purpose, just like the term Harpo.
> 
> But it will make me feel as smug as a child in the playground shouting stupid names. Or just like 'Spec. Makes no difference.


Pass this:


----------



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

SINC said:


> I think in future I will refer to Dion and the Libs as "Dijon".
> 
> Seems as fittingly insulting as Harpo and serves absolutely no purpose, just like the term Harpo.
> 
> But it will make me feel as smug as a child in the playground shouting stupid names. Or just like 'Spec. Makes no difference.


1. "Dijon" doesn't have the same ring to it as does "Harpo"
2. You had no problems with using "Mr. Dithers" referring to PM Martin (cat got your conscience?)
3. THIS IS SHOUTING, not this.


----------



## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

What's in a Name? Check out what YouTube has to say.

YouTube - Obama.What's in a Name

YouTube - Obama.What's in a Name


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Yes, let's check out what youtube has to say


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

SINC said:


> Tsk, tsk. Doing exactly what you are complaining about solves nothing.
> 
> That is the kind of language that makes ehMacers with children old enough to participate cringe.
> 
> ...


Granted it was a little crass but I still don't see him apologizing for accusing me of starting the name calling here. It's ok for Vandave to start name calling, accuse me of it and I'm supposed to apologize? Maybe to you SINC but certainly not to Vandave.


----------



## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

JumboJones said:


> Because childhood obesity isn't a problem in Canada. I thought this was a great idea and should be extended to adults, I think if gym memberships were tax deductable I think more people would be active. But that is just neo-con of me to think we need give tax breaks instead of creating new taxes.


Perhaps instead of giving a cheap tax break, they could fund arenas so that the rates are not so high. Then everyone would have a chance at using them. Gym memberships are probably a good idea, but too many of them go out of business. There is always the Y, but the one in this town is pretty scary, and anytime I am down in that area, my butt quivers from fear.

Nothing wrong with neo-cons; just those ideas that the Harper Party gets attached to. If they wanted to 'get rid of obesity', they could insist that Burger King and McDonalds close down, or at least stop with the quadruple-slider-burger... Does someone really need the quad patties with cheeze and bacon with a side of fries and a shake?

Perhaps if they let farmers grow produce, then people could get good local grown produce, and be healthy that way. BTW, the peaches are pretty good this year - way to go Winona!


----------



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

so evanpitts, was Dion always a Canadian citizen or just recently naturalized as you claim the Liberal party fast tracked his cdn. citizenship to avoid any embarrassment, a fact you claim was common knowledge and heavily reported


----------



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

EvanPitts said:


> Perhaps instead of giving a cheap tax break, they could fund arenas so that the rates are not so high. Then everyone would have a chance at using them. Gym memberships are probably a good idea, but too many of them go out of business. There is always the Y, but the one in this town is pretty scary, and anytime I am down in that area, my butt quivers from fear.
> 
> Nothing wrong with neo-cons; just those ideas that the Harper Party gets attached to. If they wanted to 'get rid of obesity', they could insist that Burger King and McDonalds close down, or at least stop with the quadruple-slider-burger... Does someone really need the quad patties with cheeze and bacon with a side of fries and a shake?
> 
> Perhaps if they let farmers grow produce, then people could get good local grown produce, and be healthy that way. BTW, the peaches are pretty good this year - way to go Winona!


it seems that cigarette smoking is the leading cause of health problems that is easiest to fix, since smoking serves no purpose whatsoever as it is an addiction to nicotine

I still say that banning pre-made cigarettes would be the easiest way to fix this
still allow tobacco to be sold and if smokers want to roll their own, they can do so

would certainly decimate the cigarette industry and high time it was decimated


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

EvanPitts said:


> Perhaps if they let farmers grow produce, then people could get good local grown produce, and be healthy that way.


Time to repeal that silly piece of legislation that prevents farmers from growing produce. I can''t believe this one passed. They'll be laying charges in Winona for sure.


----------



## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

martman said:


> Granted it was a little crass but I still don't see him apologizing for accusing me of starting the name calling here. It's ok for Vandave to start name calling, accuse me of it and I'm supposed to apologize? Maybe to you SINC but certainly not to Vandave.


You started with the derogatory name calling, not me. It is quite easy to rewind and look at this thread if you bothered to spend the time doing it.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Vandave said:


> You started with the derogatory name calling, not me. It is quite easy to rewind and look at this thread if you bothered to spend the time doing it.


I did just that, and for the record, here is what started it all:



martman said:


> You are a dick. What is your point here?


----------



## hUssain (Aug 10, 2007)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> it seems that cigarette smoking is the leading cause of health problems that is easiest to fix, since smoking serves no purpose whatsoever as it is an addiction to nicotine
> 
> I still say that banning pre-made cigarettes would be the easiest way to fix this
> still allow tobacco to be sold and if smokers want to roll their own, they can do so
> ...


We'll be getting bootleging, then curfews, then a elite police task force. It would certainly hurt the industry, but issues would arise from this, remember the alcohol ban, didn't work so well.

The leading cause of death is dying, let's ban that


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I also want to ban sports, hunting, rock climbing, pet ownership, driving of cars, motorcycles, eating fatty foods (including vegetable fats--you vegans aren't off the hook!!), cookies, alcohol and television which causes people to become lazy and suffer from heart attacks. These are all worthless and just serve to feed people's addiction to sensational flavours, cheap entertainment and worthless pastimes.


----------



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

hUssain said:


> We'll be getting bootleging, then curfews, then a elite police task force. It would certainly hurt the industry, but issues would arise from this, remember the alcohol ban, didn't work so well.
> 
> The leading cause of death is dying, let's ban that


I would argue that banning cigarettes and banning liquor are two different things

cigarettes are a finished product using dried and processed tobacco

banning cigarettes doesn't stop someone from buying tobacco and rolling papers

I would just like an experiment to try and see what happens although the banning of smoking from public places has been very good - nice to sit and have a drink without the stale stench of cigarette smoke


----------



## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> I would argue that banning cigarettes and banning liquor are two different things
> 
> cigarettes are a finished product using dried and processed tobacco
> 
> ...


I think it's time to be up front about the shares in clay pipe manufacturing. This talk of papers and 'makins" is just a ruse. If tailor made cigarettes are taken away most smoker will go to the pipe just like the other addicts.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> I would just like an experiment to try and see what happens...


Well, sonny, my name's Elliott Ness and I've got a few stories to tell ya...


----------



## martman (May 5, 2005)

SINC said:


> I did just that, and for the record, here is what started it all:


wrong!
go back one posting further and you will see this:


Vandave said:


> You are clueless.


----------



## martman (May 5, 2005)

Vandave said:


> You started with the derogatory name calling, not me. It is quite easy to rewind and look at this thread if you bothered to spend the time doing it.


Are you blind?
See above post and show me where I started the name calling. You have some nerve.


----------



## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

martman said:


> Are you blind?
> See above post and show me where I started the name calling. You have some nerve.


You consider 'clueless' to be derogatory?


----------



## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

Vandave said:


> You consider 'clueless' to be derogatory?


Dick Clueless I confuse these all the time.

clueless |ˈkloōləs| |ˌkluləs| |ˌkluːlɪs|
adjective informal
having no knowledge, understanding, or ability : you're clueless about how to deal with the world.

dick 2 |dɪk| |dɪk|
noun dated informal
a detective.
ORIGIN early 20th cent.: perhaps an arbitrary shortening of detective , or from obsolete slang dick [look,] from Romany.
dick 1 |dik| |dɪk| |dɪk|
noun
1 vulgar slang a penis.
2 [with negative ] vulgar slang anything at all : you don't know dick about this—you haven't a clue!

Pot kettle black come to mind


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

martman said:


> wrong!
> go back one posting further and you will see this:


Gimme a break. Calling someone clueless is one thing and acceptable. It is similar to naive for example.

Calling someone a dick or any other version of a penis is derogatory IMHO.

My post stands.


----------



## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

SINC said:


> Gimme a break. Calling someone clueless is one thing and acceptable. It is similar to naive for example.
> 
> Calling someone a dick or any other version of a penis is derogatory IMHO.
> 
> My post stands.


Sinc! Prick my bubble why don'tcha  seems stiff. When will these penis references peter out?  Willie be upset?


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

BigDL said:


> Sinc! Prick my bubble why don'tcha  seems stiff. When will these penis references peter out?  Willie be upset?


:lmao: :clap:


----------



## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> so evanpitts, was Dion always a Canadian citizen or just recently naturalized as you claim the Liberal party fast tracked his cdn. citizenship to avoid any embarrassment, a fact you claim was common knowledge and heavily reported


When it came out that he was not a citizen, a number of powerful Liberals pushed for his ouster as leader, not on the grounds that he was a French citizen, but rather, that he had lied on his CV and application forms for his run as party leader. Then it was revealed that he had taken the step of renouncing his Canadian citizenship in the mid-70's, when he was working for the PQ and Boisclair. He had considered leaving the country, but when the PQ failed during the Referendum, he 'changed his tune' when persuaded by Mr. Desmarais.

On his CV, he claimed full citizenship, of which he had not because he had renounced his citizenship, and thus, could not travel to the US without a French Visa. This was not a real problem until he became embroiled in the leadership campaign, when all of these irregularities were pointed out to the Liberal brass. So his problem was he no longer holds his citizenship of birthright, but actually needs to apply as a landed immigrant in order to become naturalized. And it comes to bear that King Harper holds the trump card because, if Dion becomes to 'uppity'; he can be deported, which would be a fatal embarrasment.

And it was heavily reported at the time, but then it suddenly disappeared from the news. Just like the news of Mr. Martin's drug boat landing and being searched by the RCMP at Sydney NS, which got exactly 12 hours of coverage on selected Global TV stations... If it smells like rotten fish, feels like rotten fish and tastes like rotten fish - it may be rotten fish.


----------



## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> I still say that banning pre-made cigarettes would be the easiest way to fix this still allow tobacco to be sold and if smokers want to roll their own, they can do so would certainly decimate the cigarette industry and high time it was decimated


Couple this to banning "Mild Virginia" tobacco, and put in it's place the real thing. No one could smoke a pack a day of real cigarettes. I used to work at a place where the boss would smoke real cigarettes that he would bring back from his home in Indonesia. Not only did the place smell like a ham factory (because of the cloves), he could only smoke two or perhaps three of those cigarettes a day because they were so strong. And he was one that could wipe out a pack of Marlboro's by afternoon coffee!

So if mild tobacco was banned, along with filters and prerolled: hard core smokers would enjoy their Cohibas and Pipes, or they'd be rolling their own; and because of the inconvenience, only those with a death wish would continue.


----------



## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

Macfury said:


> I also want to ban sports, hunting, rock climbing, pet ownership, driving of cars, motorcycles, eating fatty foods (including vegetable fats--you vegans aren't off the hook!!), cookies, alcohol and television which causes people to become lazy and suffer from heart attacks. These are all worthless and just serve to feed people's addiction to sensational flavours, cheap entertainment and worthless pastimes.


If you add to that a ban on Celine Dion music piped into in elevators and grocery stores, telephones that have push buttons or ring tones, pavement and "tar", wierdos hanging out at the Y, breasts and prostate glands, Ben Mulroney, metal cutlery and saws that use a chain for a blade, then I'd be a supporter because it isn't just the worthless flavours, sensational entertainment and cheap pastimes that kill!

And knowing King Harpo, he'd try any of it if it would win a seat in Quebec (mostly because he attempted to sell his soul, but the Devil was looking for something high quality like a Mercedez-Benz soul, not the burnt out old K-Car kind of soul).


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

EvanPitts said:


> If you add to that a ban on Celine Dion music piped into in elevators and grocery stores, telephones that have push buttons or ring tones, pavement and "tar", wierdos hanging out at the Y, breasts and prostate glands, Ben Mulroney, metal cutlery and saws that use a chain for a blade, then I'd be a supporter because it isn't just the worthless flavours, sensational entertainment and cheap pastimes that kill!
> 
> And knowing King Harpo, he'd try any of it if it would win a seat in Quebec (mostly because he attempted to sell his soul, but the Devil was looking for something high quality like a Mercedez-Benz soul, not the burnt out old K-Car kind of soul).


Your views match your early iMac avatar. Tired, old, out of date, no longer manufactured and not enough RAM.


----------



## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

SINC said:


> Your views match your early iMac avatar. Tired, old, out of date, no longer manufactured and not enough RAM.


Just don't you dare call him clueless.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Vandave said:


> Just don't you dare call him clueless.


What? And have Martman on my case? No thanks.


----------



## hUssain (Aug 10, 2007)

EvanPitts said:


> So if mild tobacco was banned, along with filters and prerolled: hard core smokers would enjoy their Cohibas and Pipes, or they'd be rolling their own; and because of the inconvenience, only those with a death wish would continue.


That's bad business, the tobacco industry is about the money :greedy: more than MS :greedy:

Martman has a Dalek(Dr. Who) in his avatar, they always seemed stubborn to me.


----------



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

EvanPitts said:


> When it came out that he was not a citizen, a number of powerful Liberals pushed for his ouster as leader, not on the grounds that he was a French citizen, but rather, that he had lied on his CV and application forms for his run as party leader. Then it was revealed that he had taken the step of renouncing his Canadian citizenship in the mid-70's, when he was working for the PQ and Boisclair. He had considered leaving the country, but when the PQ failed during the Referendum, he 'changed his tune' when persuaded by Mr. Desmarais.
> 
> On his CV, he claimed full citizenship, of which he had not because he had renounced his citizenship, and thus, could not travel to the US without a French Visa. This was not a real problem until he became embroiled in the leadership campaign, when all of these irregularities were pointed out to the Liberal brass. So his problem was he no longer holds his citizenship of birthright, but actually needs to apply as a landed immigrant in order to become naturalized. And it comes to bear that King Harper holds the trump card because, if Dion becomes to 'uppity'; he can be deported, which would be a fatal embarrasment.
> 
> And it was heavily reported at the time, but then it suddenly disappeared from the news. Just like the news of Mr. Martin's drug boat landing and being searched by the RCMP at Sydney NS, which got exactly 12 hours of coverage on selected Global TV stations... If it smells like rotten fish, feels like rotten fish and tastes like rotten fish - it may be rotten fish.


how does someone not become a citizen of Canada if they are born in Canada?
perhaps you don't consider Quebec a part of Canada?


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## hUssain (Aug 10, 2007)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> how does someone not become a citizen of Canada if they are born in Canada?
> perhaps you don't consider Quebec a part of Canada?


I think he thinks so, he's one of those people who crosses one of the bridge and as though relieved says "I'm back in Canada"


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

"My Quebec includes Canada."


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

SINC said:


> Gimme a break. Calling someone clueless is one thing and acceptable. It is similar to naive for example.
> 
> Calling someone a dick or any other version of a penis is derogatory IMHO.
> 
> My post stands.


Only someone like SINC would try to justify this - aren't you the one crying everytime someone disagrees with you?
"Attack the idea, not person" should be the motto no?


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

hUssain said:


> I think he thinks so, he's one of those people who crosses one of the bridge and as though relieved says "I'm back in Canada"


Oh yeah! I am always relieved to get back to Canada; but then, I usually cross at Windsor-Detroit. Leaving Detroit to go anywhere is quite a relief. To think of the things I have seen in Detroit: five year old kids waving and firing off pistols after a Tigers game, van and car burnings after Tigers games, a big drug bust at the Holiday Inn I was staying at in Dearborn, cop cars with Rootes blowers so they can catch any car except for perhaps an IndyCar, people throwing bricks off of buildings onto the freeway to see if they can score any 'kills', holdups, Louies Liquor Deli on Michigan Avenue, cops buying drugs on street corners (while on duty), my friend's place which is a block away from the house of Dr. Death Kervorkian, and a bullet whizzing past my car just as I was pulling out of Customs (which hit the customs booth). In Windsor, I see fairly clean streets that are safe to walk down, trees and lawns, Tim Hortons, and gas stations that I do not have to prepay for my gas. Literally heaven across the river from hell. I am always relieved to get back to Canada, where things are less zoo-like, and I even feel safer in Scarberia. Crossing a bridge is never so sweet as the warnings: Going into Detroit: Michigan Is A Seat Belt State, Seat Belts Are Mandatory; Going into Windsor: a very large sign stating which weapons are strictly prohibited by federal regulations...


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

EvanPitts said:


> Oh yeah! I am always relieved to get back to Canada; but then, I usually cross at Windsor-Detroit. Leaving Detroit to go anywhere is quite a relief. To think of the things I have seen in Detroit: five year old kids waving and firing off pistols after a Tigers game, van and car burnings after Tigers games, a big drug bust at the Holiday Inn I was staying at in Dearborn, cop cars with Rootes blowers so they can catch any car except for perhaps an IndyCar, people throwing bricks off of buildings onto the freeway to see if they can score any 'kills', holdups, Louies Liquor Deli on Michigan Avenue, cops buying drugs on street corners (while on duty), my friend's place which is a block away from the house of Dr. Death Kervorkian, and a bullet whizzing past my car just as I was pulling out of Customs (which hit the customs booth). In Windsor, I see fairly clean streets that are safe to walk down, trees and lawns, Tim Hortons, and gas stations that I do not have to prepay for my gas. Literally heaven across the river from hell. I am always relieved to get back to Canada, where things are less zoo-like, and I even feel safer in Scarberia. Crossing a bridge is never so sweet as the warnings: Going into Detroit: Michigan Is A Seat Belt State, Seat Belts Are Mandatory; Going into Windsor: a very large sign stating which weapons are strictly prohibited by federal regulations...


still no admission that Dion always was and is a Canadian citizen

some put their heads into the ground, others put it somewhere more "personal"


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

SINC, AS and perhaps others.

I've been on holidays for awhile, and it looks like the decorum has slid a bit. I haven't had time to read all the posts and accusations. 

So, let's just start fresh. If you have called someone a name like dick or clueless, please go back to that post and remove it. Going forward, please do not use any similar attacking language. Future language will result in extended time off from ehMac.ca. 

Please, let's keep things civil.


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> still no admission that Dion always was and is a Canadian citizen some put their heads into the ground, others put it somewhere more "personal"


No wonder why there was a warning. There will never be an admission because there is no need. The record stands clear that Dion at one point in time relinquished his citizenship and then joined the ranks of the traitors. And as traitors, all of them should have been prosecuted and sentenced to death for their seditious actions. Notwithstanding these points, he should, as any new immigrant needs to do, he needs to go through the process of applying and naturalization to become a citizen once again. As a leader of a major political party and possibly in line to hold high office; he needs to relinquish all and any alien citizenships. Canada should be by Canadians and for Canadians; not at the beck and call of some far away place. If we do not have these safeguards, then the Americans could easily put up their own non-Canadian candidate and win the election based on the money they could spend. No one would think of this as being a positive development.

The Liberals made a fatal mistake in the light that any rational leader should be able to topple the house of straw built by King Harpo. First, they should have followed their traditions and this time select a leader that is not from Quebec. They have had three in a row, and if you discount the short reign of Turner, five. Canada needs to include that which is Canada outside of Quebec. Second, they could have selected someone with a personality, something which King Harpo really does not have. But I do suppose if you compare the traitor Dion with that of mafia Volpe or greasy Kennedy, there really is little to pick from. Third, the Liberals insist on the Quebec question, long after it was put to bed. The whole nation in a nation with Quebec being something other than Canadian was killed in '72, during the Referendum, '81, at Meech Lake, at Charlottetown, and the second Referendum.

Give it a rest and get on with those things the nation really needs to address. This is something that a Dion lead Liberal Party can not do. They are a one tune jukebox, and are threatened with extinction. They are crowded out on the left by the NDP and Green Party, squeezed out of Quebec by the Bloc, hated in Ontario because of the Dolt, and ignored west of Kakabeka Falls.

Dion can rehabilitate himself (partially) by showing some integrity and becoming a true citizen of Canada, without strings being pulled by Paris, or any other nation he may or may not be a national of. Oh, and he can submit a correct resume to the Liberal Party, with all blanks filled with the truth and only the truth. Otherwise, it looks like a long reign for King Harpo and his serfs.


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

Vandave said:


> You consider 'clueless' to be derogatory?


:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: 
No I consider it an compliment!


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

ehMax said:


> SINC, AS and perhaps others.
> 
> I If you have called someone a name like dick or clueless, please go back to that post and remove it. Going forward, please do not use any similar attacking language. Future language will result in extended time off from ehMac.ca.
> 
> Please, let's keep things civil.


I rest my case and will happily take a vacation from ehmac for my part in this if deemed necessary. Calling a person clueless because they accuse your favorite provincial party of being right-wing is not an argument it is a fallacy and just plain rude. I am trying to have an argument here and ad hominym attacks severely distract from that. I know my method was rude but I see no other way to make people take notice of this issue. See it worked. Sorry to everyone else who had to witness that but I was done taking attacks as the ONLY response in a discussion (argument) about politics.


I have gone back and edited my posts as ehMax has asked Vandave has not.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

martman said:


> I rest my case and will happily take a vacation from ehmac for my part in this if deemed necessary. Calling a person clueless because they accuse your favorite provincial party right-wing is not an argument it is a fallacy and just plain rude. I am trying to have an argument here and ad hominym attacks severely distract from that. I know my method was rude but I see no other way to make people take notice of this issue. See it worked. Sorry to everyone else who had to witness that but I was done taking attacks as the only response in a discussion (argument) about politics.
> 
> 
> I have gone back and edited my posts as eh Max has asked Vandave has not.


Keep digging that hole Martman. 

I deleted my comments within an hour of EhMax requesting it. I cannot edit the comments you quoted.  

Done taking attacks? Huh? I called you clueless... once.... 

If you want to talk about 'taking attacks', you should read through the last few years of threads and some of the things said to me by many on this board. For the most part, I just ignore it.


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

Vandave said:


> I read the article.
> 
> To summarize their faulty logic.... Mining companies, forest companies and developers are the largest donars to the BC Provincial Liberal Party. In the past, similar companies have donated to right wing parties. Therefore, the BC Liberal Party is purely a right wing party.
> 
> ...


This is one way to look at it but there is another. No I do not agree with your premise that BC Liberals are Centre Right.



various sources said:


> In a $3.2 billion surplus year, the Campbell government cut financial assistance to college students and is asking us to wait until next year to find out what it will pay to achieve the radical cuts to greenhouse emissions promised in last week's throne speech.
> 
> But everyone making up to $100,000 got a 10 per cent tax cut. And corporations saw another $100 million lopped off their taxes, too.
> 
> ...




And here lies the problem with your argument in favour of Cambells gov't: The turn around in BC's economy has very little to do with policy and is mostly a result of high commodity prices. Watch the economy slow down and possibly even falter as the amount of wood and other commodities the Americans buy decreases. I'll add that my above quotes show a pattern of right wing action on the part of BC Liberals. I see no centrist planks in their platform.

Nice ad hominym attack. That surely reinforces your stance.


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

Vandave said:


> Keep digging that hole Martman.
> 
> I deleted my comments within an hour of EhMax requesting it. I cannot edit the comments you quoted.
> 
> ...


Sorry if I am wrong on that. I thought I saw them up there still. My bad. As for your taking attacks: good for you . It still doesn't answer to the fact that you reply with an attack when you have nothing else to say.

And you can do it again showing again you have nothing to say.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

martman said:


> And here lies the problem with your argument in favour of Cambells gov't: The turn around in BC's economy has very little to do with policy and is mostly a result of high commodity prices. Watch the economy slow down and possibly even falter as the amount of wood and other commodities the Americans buy decreases. I'll add that my above quotes show a pattern of right wing action on the part of BC Liberals. I see no centrist planks in their platform.


You are only posting what you can find on Google. Admit it. I don't need to reference google because I am very familiar with the BC political situation. You are free to believe what you like and read what you like. If you are really interested and want to read about this government, you will enventually come to the conclusion that they are a centre-right coalition.

I could post a greater number of newspaper articles that make the BC Liberal look like a centrist government. I won't bother because I have no interest in having a google search discussion.

If you can't see centrist planks, then you are not looking very hard or you are not really interested in having an honest discussion. I posted their 'golden decade' objectives above. If that doesn't jump out at you as being a SOCIALIST agenda, then I don't know what would. 

Mostly a result of high commodity prices? Maybe 30 years ago. If you combine forestry, logging, mining and oil and gas, it totals a whopping 6% of provincial GDP. Yes 6%!!!! That's it. 

Manufacturing and high tech are a much larger component of our GDP. These industries BOOMED in the 1990s along the west coast of North America. Yet, BC lagged and was a has not province.


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## hUssain (Aug 10, 2007)

EvanPitts said:


> [...]The record stands clear that Dion at one point in time relinquished his citizenship and then *joined the ranks of the traitors.* And as traitors, all of them should have been prosecuted and sentenced to death for their seditious actions. [...]
> The Liberals made a fatal mistake in the light that any rational leader should be able to topple the house of straw built by *King Harpo*. First, they should have followed their traditions and this time select a leader that is not from Quebec. [...] *Canada needs to include that which is Canada outside of Quebec.* [...] But I do suppose if you compare the traitor Dion with that of mafia Volpe or greasy Kennedy, there really is little to pick from. [...]


First, where are you getting the fact that he relinquished his citizenship, he's a canadian with a dual citizenship, not french with a dual-citizenship.

Second, you cleary show your xenophobic tendencies in this entire speech. Canada is multicultural nation and we pride ourselves in that, if you can't accept that, then go live in the US. Also you can't deny that you are not xenophobic when you make comments like the ones above.

Third, King Harpo, that's just laughable.


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

Vandave said:


> If you can't see centrist planks, then you are not looking very hard or you are not really interested in having an honest discussion. I posted their 'golden decade' objectives above. If that doesn't jump out at you as being a SOCIALIST agenda, then I don't know what would.


Golden Decade Objectives are nothing but rhetoric being used to try and hide the fact that BC Libs are perusing a right wing agenda. Yes I use Google to find convenient sources of information but to say that my argument doesn't hold water because it is backed up by media quotes is specious. Google evidence is far better than no evidence at all. I'll add that my quotes speak directly to the fallacy that is Cambell's "Golden Decade." I back up what I say with evidence. You only use rhetoric. I fail to see how your approach is better.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Recall that Bob Rae's "New Democrat Party" was elected, only to turn into a right-wing autocracy that tore up union contracts and instituted the 'social contract.'

Even Jean Chretien when first elected, without a hint of warning about it in his election platform, fired one-fifth of the federal civil service.

You never know how parties are going to change once handed power, but generally they veer to the right.


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

About BC economy:


> Commodity-driven economic boost masks growing BC regional divide
> 
> May 4, 2005
> (Vancouver) Provincial taxation and spending policies have worsened the gap between BC’s two economies — the diversified Lower Mainland and Victoria areas, and the more resource-dependent ‘hinterland’ regions. Soutwestern BC received a skewed share of income tax cuts, while subsequent tax increases and spending cuts have hit harder in the regions. For most communities, the value of income tax cuts has been largely offset, or eliminated altogether, by tax increases and lost income from government downsizing.
> ...


Bold added by me. This speaks to your insistence the commodity prices have nothing to do with the upswing in BCs economy and also serves to further illustrate the right wing policies and the effect of these policies on the citizens of BC.


When I lived in BC it wasn't in the lower mainland it was in the interior. Perhaps you are only seeing things from a Vancouver perspective? Forget Toronto. Is Vancouver the centre of the Universe?


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

Highlights from the last budget. Try to find the hidden right wing agenda.  


Relief to Help Every Taxpayer With Their Housing Costs

This latest personal income tax reduction builds on the 25% tax cut introduced in 2001 and the BC Tax Reduction introduced in 2005. As a result, 250,000 British Columbians now pay no provincial income tax, others have seen reductions of up to 70%, and most have seen reductions of between 30 and 35%.
A family of four with both parents working, earning a combined $70,000, will now save more than $1,800 a year compared to 2001.

Housing Endowment for Future Generations

The economy was strong in 2006, and British Columbia will finish 2006/07 with a significant surplus. It is prudent, when times are good, to put aside a portion of that surplus and create a legacy for our children. Balanced Budget 2007 sets aside $250 million to establish a new Housing Endowment Fund. The fund will generate approximately $10 million a year to support innovative housing solutions.

More Supports for the Homeless

An additional $27 million over three years to increase the number of year-round shelter beds by almost 30% and provide related support services. An additional $38 million is dedicated to housing and support services for people who are homeless or at risk of being homeless. Transition houses for women and children fleeing domestic violence will receive an additional $6 million over three years.

New Supports for Home Owners

The First Time Home Buyers' Program is enhanced to exempt first-time buyers across British Columbia from paying the Property Transfer Tax on homes valued up to $375,000. This will save first-time buyers up to $5,500. Low-income seniors will be eligible for the Home Owner Grant, regardless of their home's assessed value.

Higher Income Assistance Rates

The shelter allowance for people on income assistance will increase by $50 a month. British Columbia now has the highest shelter assistance rates in Canada for employable singles, couples and single-parent families. Expanded Rental Assistance

The Rental Assistance Program will expand so more lower-income working families qualify for benefits. An additional 5,800 families — more than 20,000 in total — will now be eligible to receive up to $563 a month to help with their housing costs.

Upgrading our Social Housing

The Province will provide $45 million over four years to convert up to 750 social housing units to supportive housing, to make them more accessible for seniors and others with special housing needs.

Increased Funding for Health Care

Budget 2007 increases funding provided for the Ministry of Health and health authorities by $885 million with overall health funding now reaching $13.1 billion. Health spending has increased by over 50% since 2000/01.

Increased Funding for Education

The average per pupil funding for 2007/08 is estimated at $7,910, the highest in history, an increase of 4.1% over 2006/07. Budget 2007 fully funds the negotiated settlements reached earlier this year with employees in the K-12 school system.

Action on the Environment

The BC Liberal government is committed to initiatives that protect the environment and support the objective of leading the world in sustainable environmental management. Budget 2007 includes $103 million to support environmental initiatives, including upgrading parks, extending support for hybrid vehicles, purchasing new hydrogen buses, creating an environmental secretariat, and establishing the Green City Awards.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

martman said:


> Bold added by me. This speaks to your insistence the commodity prices have nothing to do with the upswing in BCs economy and also serves to further illustrate the right wing policies and the effect of these policies on the citizens of BC.
> 
> 
> When I lived in BC it wasn't in the lower mainland it was in the interior. Perhaps you are only seeing things from a Vancouver perspective? Forget Toronto. Is Vancouver the centre of the Universe?


Nice source. :lmao: The Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives is not a balanced source of information. They have a socialist agenda. 

I never said commodities didn't have an effect on the economy. The reality is that commodities are no longer the driver of the BC economy. As I said above, they only contribute 6% of total provincial GDP. Meanwhile manufacturing and high tech contribute a greater percentage of GDP. This is a FACT Martman. The study does not touch on this in any way. 

The study supports a lot of what I said above... i.e. cities are currently the driver of economic growth in BC. They do fine when the commodity cycle takes a dip. It is obvious that small towns will get hit harder when commodities drop. The reason many BC towns exist is because of commodities. This has nothing to do with provincial governments. Government make work programs are not the solution. Rather, I would prefer to have a dynamic work force that can retrain and apply their skills to other sectors. 

I have been to pretty much every town in BC.

My family is from northern BC and I spent a significant part of my childhood there. I spent many a summer working there.


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

Vandave said:


> Highlights from the last budget. Try to find the hidden right wing agenda.
> 
> 
> Relief to Help Every Taxpayer With Their Housing Costs
> ...


Tax cuts are generally a right wing agenda.



Vandave said:


> Housing Endowment for Future Generations
> 
> The economy was strong in 2006, and British Columbia will finish 2006/07 with a significant surplus. It is prudent, when times are good, to put aside a portion of that surplus and create a legacy for our children. Balanced Budget 2007 sets aside $250 million to establish a new Housing Endowment Fund. The fund will generate approximately $10 million a year to support innovative housing solutions.



from Canada.com
But some critics said the province will actually end up with slightly less permanent social housing at the end of three years than it started with.


"Basically, there is no real money for social housing," said Coun. Tim Stevenson. That's because the budget provides money to convert 750 units of existing social housing to seniors' housing, while it appears that money dedicated to build permanent new units of social housing will only pay for 600.

"Housing is actually being taken away," said Stevenson.

As I said in a post above the "Golden Decade" is a smoke screen and a cynical one at that.



Vandave said:


> More Supports for the Homeless
> 
> An additional $27 million over three years to increase the number of year-round shelter beds by almost 30% and provide related support services. An additional $38 million is dedicated to housing and support services for people who are homeless or at risk of being homeless. Transition houses for women and children fleeing domestic violence will receive an additional $6 million over three years.





Vandave said:


> New Supports for Home Owners
> 
> The First Time Home Buyers' Program is enhanced to exempt first-time buyers across British Columbia from paying the Property Transfer Tax on homes valued up to $375,000. This will save first-time buyers up to $5,500. Low-income seniors will be eligible for the Home Owner Grant, regardless of their home's assessed value.


This helps home buyers, people who tend to already have money.



Vandave said:


> Higher Income Assistance Rates
> 
> The shelter allowance for people on income assistance will increase by $50 a month. British Columbia now has the highest shelter assistance rates in Canada for employable singles, couples and single-parent families. Expanded Rental Assistance
> 
> The Rental Assistance Program will expand so more lower-income working families qualify for benefits. An additional 5,800 families — more than 20,000 in total — will now be eligible to receive up to $563 a month to help with their housing costs.


What is neglected in this one is the fact that assistance rate for everything else besides shelter remains abysmally low. Lets see you live on $6 a day for food AND clothing. I am also curious as to when the last hike was. I Ontario a three percent increase is the first since Harris decimated the rates of assistance and that three percent doesn't even cover the cost of inflation for one year.



Vandave said:


> Upgrading our Social Housing
> 
> The Province will provide $45 million over four years to convert up to 750 social housing units to supportive housing, to make them more accessible for seniors and others with special housing needs.


Economist Marc Lee, of the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives, concurred.

"There are some worthwhile initiatives, but it's spread pretty thinly. And it actually doesn't add any new housing."




Vandave said:


> Increased Funding for Health Care
> 
> Budget 2007 increases funding provided for the Ministry of Health and health authorities by $885 million with overall health funding now reaching $13.1 billion. Health spending has increased by over 50% since 2000/01.


This is a smokescreen covering up a right wing agenda of increasing private and for profit health care designed to (slowly) undermine public delivery of services. See above about P3s.



Vandave said:


> Increased Funding for Education
> 
> The average per pupil funding for 2007/08 is estimated at $7,910, the highest in history, an increase of 4.1% over 2006/07. Budget 2007 fully funds the negotiated settlements reached earlier this year with employees in the K-12 school system.


I'll admit I know little of the current situation about the education setup in BC but I do know that Cambell's gov't is extremly hostile to the BC teacher's union and has removed the right to strike. This is a decidedly right wing approach.



Vandave said:


> Action on the Environment
> 
> The BC Liberal government is committed to initiatives that protect the environment and support the objective of leading the world in sustainable environmental management. Budget 2007 includes $103 million to support environmental initiatives, including upgrading parks, extending support for hybrid vehicles, purchasing new hydrogen buses, creating an environmental secretariat, and establishing the Green City Awards.


So when is Victoria going to stop dumping raw sewage into the ocean?


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

Vandave said:


> Nice source. :lmao: The Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives is not a balanced source of information. They have a socialist agenda.


Socialist just like BC Liberals eh?
:lmao:


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

A definition for "right wing" is needed, in terms of what it is and is not as well as some notion of the tipping point combination of practices that result in "rightness". Otherwise it's just a handy label that can always be "proven" to apply. Anytime, anywhere. 

A party could be "right wing" from one person's perspective, and "left wing" from anothers', so some semi-objective perspective based on Canada's politics is needed.

Benchmarks with other well known Canadian governments would help too. Chretien Liberals? McGuinty Liberals? Rae Liberals? Were any of those "right wing", centre, centre-right, upside down? Remember that political circumstances -- including starting points, such as deficits -- matter too.

Also note that with things like tax cuts, the MB and SK NDP are right wing in a way. I think the SK NDP even lowered some royalty rates to help develop the energy sector  .

As for the economic thing, saying high commodity prices helped is quite different from claiming that Campbell's policies did not help a lot. It is just pointing out one piece of an economy and, also, not noting that part of Campbell's initial policy package was to make B.C.'s resource sector a better place to invest (ie. increase commodity production). There were also negative affects recently (ie. cattle, lumber, SARS) that B.C.'s economy grew through. 

Campbell's policies helped the B.C. economy get back to where it should be after a natural "have" province was converted into a have not. I know the CCPA would like to downplay this as much as possible due to their ideology and funding but, then again, they're almost as bad as the Fraser Institute. Their (CCPA and Fraser) documents can be handy for lists of data and sources and the price is right (free).


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