# Relocating to Vancouver from Montreal



## mmflame (May 14, 2003)

Well, here goes. I'm a Montrealer looking to move to Vancouver with my fiancee. I'm hoping to head there early next year. My questions are:

1. What is the best way to find an apartment there if I am stuck in Montreal and don't plan on being in Vancouver until the big move in January?

2. What's the best way to find work in Vancouver from here? I haven't been able to get anywhere applying for a job in BC from here in Montreal.

3. What are some of the more developing areas of the Vancouver/Victoria area that are relatively close to the coastline but not overly expensive to live in?

4. How have some of you proceeded to make the big move from all the way across the country?

Thanks a million.


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## welbyleger (Jun 17, 2003)

Hey, how ya doin'? Well, in response to your queries:

1) The things to do to try & find a place to live in Vancouver would be to go to canada.com, and check out the classifieds in either the Vancouver Sun or The Province. Beyond that I sugest planning a side trip there within the next 3-4 months because most landlords in Vancouver will want to meet you in person, and ask you for a security deposit before you move in.

2) Finding a job over there means basically doing the same thing. Check the classifeds or check out Monster.ca to see what you can find. Unless you know someone over there that one might be a little tougher. The good part about it is, jobs aren't as hard to come by, you make a little more, and you're only taxed once ( damn seperatists







).

3) Okay, for a decent place to live. Check out the Marpole area in Richmond, South Vancouver, Burnaby, or Surrey. Sorry, I'm not too familiar with Victoria, I was there once when I was like ten, and just remember that there were a lot of retired people there. But it depends if you're looking to rent or buy...

4) What's precipitating the move? Well, in my case, it's school. I lived in Vancouver for half my life, and now I'm moving back. Things have come full circle, I guess.

On a side note: Depending on how much stuff you & your fiancee have, calculate it with the cost of travel expenses. You guys could fly, take the train, drive, etc, etc. It all depends on what you're willing to spend to do it.

On another side note: Your fiancee gave you that kick-ass laptop! She is a great girlfriend! She got a sister?!?!


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## mmflame (May 14, 2003)

Thanks a lot for the info. Well, the reason for the move is basically to start out fresh with the wife and we've always wanted to go to Vancouver. We think the quality of life there will be great. We're planning on taking her car there, which leads me to a question...what are the options (other than driving there) for transporting a car from Mtl to Van?

I'm hoping there's some way to head over there to see some places in person, but if we want to have enough saved up to survive for a while, that may not happen. We're hoping to buy, but more logically, it'll probably end up being a rental (at least at the onset).

And yes, she has two sisters (but they're both married).









thanks again for the info...


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## welbyleger (Jun 17, 2003)

Both married? Dammit! Shot down again!

Any ways, the best way to get the car over there would be to put it on a train & ship it that way. With the way gas prices are these days it's definitely cheaper, plus there's less wear & tear that driving it yourselves.


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## mmflame (May 14, 2003)

Any idea for a web site that gives more info on transporting the car by train?

Thanks for all of your advice.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

For finding a place in Vancouver, you can start by checking canada.com, but the best way to find one would be to come here a few weeks in advance and just pound the pavement in the different neighbourhoods. There are lots of places that just put up signs outside the building without putting an ad in the classifieds. 

This will also give you the opporunity to get to know the city and transit system.

Also, decide where you want to live now too, because Vancouver is beautiful, but living in one of the other cities (like Burnaby, Coquitlam, Richmond or North Vancouver) can be a lot cheaper.

Personally, I would try to live in Vancouver itself, and the best areas to check out (IMO, in no real order) are Kitsilano, Kerrisdale, South Granville and South Vancouver.

As to finding a job, what kind of job would you be looking for? You work for Matrox now right? Do they have a western office? If you are looking for something else in Marketing, check out Monster.ca and the classifieds, but also go to an employment agency or two here in the city. A lot of the big companies only list with them. If you are just looking for something in retail or customer service, print off a few resumés and drop them off where ever you think you'd be willing to work.

Hope some of this helps.

--PB


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## mmflame (May 14, 2003)

Great advice, PB. It looks as though I'll have to make my way to the area before the big move for a better idea of the real estate options available.

I'd love to work in the Marketing Department of a large or small company in Vancouver. No other CDN offices for Matrox, though. That's ok...change is what this move is all about anyway.

I hope I can make some progress from here in Montreal prior to heading over there for a visit, though.


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## Etaoin Shrdlu (May 19, 2003)

mmflame, please do not consider driving across Canada in the winter months, especially if it would be your first long cold-weather trip. The prairie in winter is, literally, a killer. It is unlikely you have experienced a whiteout caused by snow, and unless you are safely ensconsed with plenty of warmth and food, try to keep it that way. Montreal icestorms are as nothing compared to these.

You are somewhere west of Moose Jaw; Swift Current is 150 kilometres away, but it might as well be the planet Pluto.

Snowstorms, whether they are technically blizzards or not, are terrifying when you are in a car on a highway. You are afraid to slow down because there may be a car or semi on your back bumper. But you cannot maintain speed or go faster because you are as blind looking forward as behind, and you saw a car not too far ahead 10 minutes before.

If you stop you are dead. If you continue you are dead. If you miss a curve you are dead. If you hit a snowdrift you are dead. If the car stalls you are dead, for one centimetre beyond the steel, plastic and glass is the surrounding world: -60°C windchill and the blinding, driving snow.

The wipers, dragging chunks of ice, do little but smear the windshield, not that it matters because you can't see, anyway, and that tankful of gas is down to half much sooner than you would have believed possible because it is so damned _cold_.

The winter-survival kit, which now seems so ludicrously underwhelming, is in the trunk and inaccessible because the driving snow has frozen the left-side doors shut, and even if you go out the right side, the trunk would be fozen shut, too. And anyway, you'd better not stop.

But the car stops anyway, bogged down or stalled.

Are you on the highway? Are you on the shoulder? _Which_ shoulder? The whiteout has ended, but that's because it's 4 p.m. and nighttime. The storm is growing worse. OMG, I gotta pee!

The cellphone battery is strong but you can't reach anyone. And even if you do, no one could make the attempt to find you.

Let's hope the car is bogged down rather than stalled. That could mean life if you have enough gas to keep warm, snow doesn't plug the tailpipe, no one crashes into you, carbon monoxide doesn't leak into the car, the car isn't buried and the storm lasts only 24 hours at the most.

That's a picnic in the park compared to driving through the mountains in Canada in winter.

The Trans-Canada remains two-lane through much of the mountains. Head-on collisions are not infrequent, and though you are not so silly as to pass on blind hills, others certainly are, even on slippery highways and in a snowstorm when they can see even less than the quarter-mile usual in summer. Your forehead could end up as a Chevy bow-tie ad.

Signs reading "Do Not Stop — Avalance Area" can add little fear when all the terrors of a prairie blizzard are visited upon you and yours, this time just this side of Rogers Pass as the freezing temperature finishes you off in a squashed car next to that snow-plastered avalanche warning bent double under a load of logs tossed like toothpicks from a jackknifed semi-trailer.

If you are set on driving to Vancouver in December or January, add 1,600 kilometres to your the trip and do it by way of the southern-most U.S. interstate crossing Nevada and California. There is still plenty of snow high up, but the highways are four-lane with gentler curves, and there is more traffic because there is a much higher chance of life on the other side of the rocks. There are plenty of storms even as far south as Colorado, Utah and Arizona, but fewer of them kill.


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## mmflame (May 14, 2003)

has anyone ever told you you should write a novel? you had me at the edge of my seat.

that just about eliminates any plans to drive to Vancouver. That train idea is looking better and better.

Thanks.


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## welbyleger (Jun 17, 2003)

PosterBoy mentioned a nice area in listing Kerrisdale. I used to live across the street from the Kerrisdale Community Center ( on E. Boulevard St., if I remember right ), and it's a quiet area, there's a London Drugs ( Vancouver's version of Pharmaprix or Jean Coutu ), that can take care of your mac needs. Can you believe that? A pharmacy that works on and sells macs?  Sweeeeeeet...


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## sputnik (Jan 6, 2003)

Cause you need more narcotics?


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## mmflame (May 14, 2003)

I'd prefer an area that's by the water, is quiet, but is close enough to coffee shops and markets, and not too far from the downtown core. Do Kitsilano, Kerrisdale, South Granville and South Vancouver apply?


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## robert (Sep 26, 2002)

The only area near the water and by coffee/market shops is kits. Right downtown is also an option. Both are expensive and need legwork to find vacancies. They turn around that fast. I also would recommend moving in March. Driving is a lot better and safer. Also, you may never get a block of time open again that allows you to see Canada as its meant to be seen. I am glad to have taken time to drive across and get a feel for how vast and diverse our country really is.
It truely is a once in a lifetime experience. Also consider,
as I know from experience, job hunting in Jan. sucks. You must factor in the rain as you go door to door. It really hampers mobility and appearance.
I believe spring is also good as university students leave and there are more apts.
Good luck and enjoy,
Robert


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

Another good point about March is that you will be arriving and looking for jobs before all the university kids who stick around get out looking for jobs and places.

--PB


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## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

I have tons of friends in Van and I fianally went to see them last Nov - whoa. Robert hit it on the head: winter in Van sucks - rain for ever. I was there for 5 days and the last that I saw of the sun was when the plane began it's decent into VAN, thru the clouds and poof! the sun was gone until I was on my ascent into the skies to go back to TO. I wanted to go this summer, but got caught up in work. The 5 days felt like Blade Runner - just dark and yet. And tons of Starbucks locations.  tons. Everybody from out of town likes to talk about the 2 that are facing each other somewhere around Robson & something... As well, the ppl down there are for ever chilling... I find that so funny. *'dude, relax...'* should be the motto.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

Ohenri: Vancouver is second only to Seattle (birthplace of Starbucks) in terms of caffination on this continent, and the two locations on Robson Street that are on opposite corners of the same intersection also have a third coffee shop on another corner. It was a Pastels, but I think it changed again.

Also, it isn't all rain all the time. This past winter was very very mild, and we even had some spring/summer type weather for parts of it.

--PB


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## mmflame (May 14, 2003)

Sounds great to me. Relaxation. Starbucks. No snow. Relaxation.

I would take the constant rain any day over a Montreal winter. And anyway, I'm more worried about finding a place and work while I'm here in Montreal, than about whether it rains most of time.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Vancouver is a great place...and it's a pretty busy city with lots of opportunities...but if you truly want the very best quailty of life in all of the country, then you should check out Victoria. 

It's MUCH nicer, IMHO...and a lot of other people seem to think so as well.  

-The weather is far nicer than Vancouver (according to Environment Canada, Victoria gets less rain than Toronto. A LOT less than Vancouver) 

-You are never very far from the ocean (it's on an island, after all. A big island...but an island nonetheless.)

-Far less crime and big-city problems than Van. (Surrey, just outside Vancouver, is the car theft _capital_ of North America!)

-There is, essentially, no winter. The city only has a few snowplows, and no one remembers if they actually run or not. The peak summer temperatures are rarely over 28C and winter is almost never below 10C. January days that hit 15C are not at all uncommon, and people golf pretty much all year round. Victoria does a "flower count" in January and regularly comes up with numbers well into seven figures. In friggin _JANUARY!_







 

When you make the big jump out west, take a side trip to the Provincial capitol city. It's really worth a look.  

Trust me on this.


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## robert (Sep 26, 2002)

My point was that if you don't find a place/work, it sucks to try in Jan. The weather is a real disadvantage. The places you want to live probably wont be listed either. When living in Kits, I remember lineups just to view an apt in the area.
I won't guess at how much rent is now a days.
Good luck, but be prepared for anything,
Robert


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I just saw a segment on the local news about real estate in Vancouver. The expert they were interviewing pointed out that, in many cases, rents are actually higher than mortgage payments for comparable properties in this region.

If you can possibly swing the down payment, then by all means Buy! Don't rent.

The property values out here have been steadily rising since the first frostbitten refugee from central Canada straggled in a long time ago. (look around and you'll see why).

There is nothing to indicate an end to this trend. Buy if you can. Anything.


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## james_squared (May 3, 2002)

Hello,

You should take a look at North Vancouver or West Vancouver. These are very nice places that are very close to the water. I live in the Lower Lonsdale area of North Vancouver. There are lots of coffee shops (I hate coffee), restaurants, bars, cool art stores, and more. If I want to go to the mountains, they're right to the North. If I want to go to downtown Vancouver, I just have to hop on the Seabus and I'll be there very quickly.

If you put some effort into finding a job when you get here, it shouldn't take you too long. My wife got a job and quit because she found a better job. And we've only been here a month.

Checking the Canada.com classifieds will benefit you quite a bit. You can also go to www.nsnews.com and read about the North Shore (North Van and West Van). It has link to classifieds, which are on a site that has other links to other classifieds in other Lower Mainland papers. There are also lots of temp agencies that can help you get part-time, full-time, temporary, and permanent work.

I would try and avoid picking a place before seeing it. That can be a huge mistake. Reading the paper only gives you an idea about prices: high prices do not necessarily imply good places (in terms of quality, neighbours, land lord, et cetera).

Good Luck.

James


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

North Van and West Van are my personal favorites for lifestyle and beautiful surroundings. It is also a rather expensive area to live in.

Downsides: More rain than the rest of Vancouver area and two very clogged bridges that link you to the rest of the city. If you happen to work in Van and live on the North Shore, get used to sitting in traffic while trying to cross the bridge. Twice a day.

But it certainly is a lovely spot!


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Here's another thought...

Check out Salt Spring Island when you move out here. It is Canada's western paradise...it has a mediterranean climate that is the warmest, year-round, in all of Canada...and a natural beauty that has to be seen to be believed.

But, you will need a very good job...or independant wealth..to live here. Cheap fixer-upper properties are somewhat north of two hundred grand and rising fast. Not much work, either. Unless you bring it with you when you arrive.

But it is...without a doubt...paradise on earth.


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## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

PB: I totally know about the rain - but man - did it ever pour dude. I mean, color in my shoes was running on my socks. I walked into Pharcyde, and they gave me a free umbrella - their promo/swag. 









mmflame: coming for La Belle Province, this will be a massive change - culturally as well as meteorologically. The snow that you are accustomed to in the streets of MTL are nothing like Van gets. You can't really get away with no boots in MTL. In Van you can.


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## mmflame (May 14, 2003)

I'm sure I could get used to the lack of snow in Van. I'm just so anxious to get there and start fresh, but I really need to go for a visit to see what kind of places are available.

I also really need to learn about the area to be better able to choose the right place for our lifestyle.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

mmflame...check out Victoria, by all means.

Is Toronto known for it's heavy rainfall? Well, Victoria recieves _less rain than Toronto_ . I kid you not. 

Vancouver=Big City

Victoria=small city, nice lifestyle.

Enough said.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

major downside for victoria:

The population is made up primarily of "newly weds and nearly deads", and because there are a lot more "nearly deads" than anyone else, the city has no night life when compared to the likes of Vancouver or Montreal.

macnutt is right about the weather though. It rarely snows in the winter. Of course if it does snow any amount over a centimeter or two the city is essentially crippled, as no one seems to know what to do about it, and the snow removale budget is only big enough to pay for some OAP volunteers with brooms (well, there are a few plows too...).

Bottom line, Vic is nice, but there is nowhere near as much opportunity as Van, and the nightlife ain't so good either.

--PB


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## mmflame (May 14, 2003)

Seems like the consensus is that Victoria is mainly occupied by retirees. 

How long (during rush hour and not) does it take to go back and forth from mainland Vancouver to Victoria?


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

To go from Vancouver to Victoria requires a 1.5 hour ferry ride (something like forty bucks for one car and driver) a half hour drive on the Victoria side (to get to the terminal) and anywhere from three quarters of an hour to two hours..depending on traffic..to get to the actual City of Vancouver once you hit the mainland.

If you want to proceed on to North Van or West Van from there, you are looking at the worst case scenario traffic-wise. We're talking bridges, tunnels and a highway system that was terribly neglected during our recent ten year fling with the NDP. During rush hour, there simply is NOT enough room for all of the cars that are on the streets. Bring a book.

Victoria, on the other hand, has no real traffic jams...although the main highway out of town to the north (toward the ferry terminal) was similarly neglected by the previous government, and is at least one lane too small sometimes. Luckily, you don't have to use that road unless you live north of the city...or plan a trip to Vancouver.

Not many people commute between the two cities on a daily basis. Those that do are usually rich enough to use the helijet commuter helicopter service that takes less than a half hour, downtown to downtown.

Now...on to the myth that it's "all old people" in Victoria.

NOT.

There are a LOT of retirees from every part of Canada, and the US, to be sure...but there are also plenty of people of all ages living there. And ....while the nightlife can't compare to the sort you would find in a big city like Vancouver or Montreal or TO, you probably won't see the sort of assaults and carjackings and gun incidents, either.

I grew up in Victoria, and there was a very lively nightlife, trust me. Most of us from Vic only went to Vancouver for the big concerts or sporting events. The rest of the time we stayed out of Big Smoke if we could.

Which brings me to one more thing you should consider when making your move. 

Vancouver, like Los Angeles to the south, is built on a basin facing the sea and is surrounded by mountains which trap polloutants in an inversiuon layer when the weather gets hot. The sky can get quite purple there on some muggy days. That's why all of the cars in the area must go through a polloution test called "air care".

That test is not required in Victoria. It is swept clean by a steady breeze off the open Pacific...and there are a lot less people living there, anyway. That means less cars to dirty up the air.

Lots of high-tech companies call Victoria home and job opportunities are much better than they have been in years.

Vancouver still holds the best job ops, fer sure...but you can make it in either city if you want to.

Have a look at both before you settle in.

(BTW-the ferry trip between Vancouver and Victoria passes through some of the most beautiful islands anywhere on the planet. I live on the biggest one of these and you will spend about fifteen minutes cruising by it's lush green hills while traveling between the two cities. Let me know when you're coming and I'll wave as you go by)


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## Etaoin Shrdlu (May 19, 2003)

> We're talking bridges, tunnels and a highway system that was terribly neglected during our recent ten year fling with the NDP.


Ooooo, cheap shot, cheap shot. It shall not go unchallenged.

The bridge and the highways to it were cocooned in a time bubble since the eternally empty promises exported from Alberta by William Aberhart and Prester John's father, Ernie. Blame Wacky Sr., Wacky Jr., the infamous Rev. Flying Phil (especially), that nutbar tub-thumping fugitive







from Fantasyland and the crackpot clones who followed.

Blame the B.C. electorate's fling with six decades and more of voting in goofball governments. But don't blame the NDP — well, not for that, anyway. There isn't enough money on the planet to fix the decades of misrule and corruption that wrecked B.C. — along with the far narrower subject at hand, roads and bridges. B.C. is paying the price today for Social Credit's chicken-in-every-pot homespun economics and smoke-and-mirrors claptrap, three years of the Barrett interregnum notwithstanding. 

And don't expect Campbell to do anything, either. He stopped caring after his Hawaiian-paradise vacation, remember?


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Whoa..slow down here!!

Wacky Bennet was the one guy who seemed to be able to see the future of this distant outpost. Most of the crticisms he suffered during his long reign were that he was "building too big". People questioned all of the huge dams for electricity that we didn't need and the giant highways that we couldn't possibly fill.

Yeah... _right_ !   

Guy was wayyyy ahead of his time. Ask anyone around here, and they will tell you on no uncertain terms.

If old man Bennet had not pushed his big public works programs through...against all sorts of opposition...when he did, then we in BC would be a LOT worse off right now!

No question about it at all. Done deal. 

As for the hated NDP....


They inherited a prosperous, thriving Province and proceeded to dismantle the whole thing!

One of their most cherished (and totally FALSE) leftist ideal is this .."if you build more roads, more cars will simply fill them up. Consequently, if you build LESS roads...or NO roads...there will be no new automobiles to occupy them"









This is the very worst of the head-up-the a** stupidity that seems to dominate this uninformed segment of society.  

Every year, several thousand families move into the Vancouver area from somewhere else. ALL of them bring at least one car with them. Some bring several.

But the highways in and out of the city haven't expanded since I lived there in the late eighties. And there were big traffic jams way back then!

It's MUCH worse now.

So...I just gotta ask...

What is it about "social awareness" and "environmentalism" that seems to kill off brain cells?

Because when all of these new arrivals...along with ALL of the people who already live in Vancouver..are sitting and idling their motors in traffic jams...they are not getting ANY SORT of 'miles per gallon'.

They are just sitting there, pollouting the air that we all breathe. For hours at a time.

Is this preferable to having several bigger highways that would allow all of these cars to zip by quickly and get to where they are going _without_ sitting in one place for a long period of time and pumping lots of polloutants into the stagnant airspace?

Think about this for a moment.

And then think about how much new road building the NDP did during their decade in power.

(a decade that saw the biggest declines in BC's credit rating in history, a massive unprecedented outflow of talented people to other Provinces, falling real estate prices, massive deficits that will eat up a great deal of our tax dollars in interest payments for years to come, corruption and scandals on a biblical scale (BingoGate, Glen Clark, Fast ferries) a union powered rebuilding of the Lions gate bridge that ran about three years over schedule and about five times the original budget with no real improvement in the traffic situation (go figure).







 

And the socialist NDP managed all of this destruction and decline in what HAD BEEN the single most prosperous Province in Canada...at the very same time that the rest of North America was experiencing the longest sustained boom period in the history of the continent!!

Quite an accomplishment.

So now...BC has inadequate roads to handle the cars of the people who have moved into this province.

We now have the LOWEST credit rating in our history.

We now have the HIGHEST DEBT and INTEREST payments in BC Provincial history.

We have LOST many thousands of our best and brightest to other Provinces that offer more opportunities. AFTER we had all paid for these peoples education via our local taxes.








 

We will all be collectively paying for the stupidity and lack of foresight of the former NDP Government until our kids are well into middle age here in BC.

Not pretty. Just the way it is.


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## mmflame (May 14, 2003)

Uh oh...seems I started a political war.

Well, as we're not major partygoers, we're not really looking for bars/clubs. In that respect, sounds like Victoria combines good quality of life with enough places to hang out over coffee. Also, since there's apparently a decent insurgence of employment opportunities, it looks like Victoria's a good place to build a married life and raise children.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

And Victoria has several Apple resellers, and London Drugs too. 

If you can't find it at LD...and for the best price going...then you probably don't need it.

(but..if you ask anyone around here "what was it like living under the NDP for a decade" then get prepared to hear an earfull)


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## Etaoin Shrdlu (May 19, 2003)

mmflame, it's not a political war. It's jawin' over the fence rail in an effort by each side to convert the other before their good intentions but ultimately fatal beliefs lead to the never-ending roast of perdition's eternal fires. (By the way, March is blizzard season. Check the stats.) 

With that in mind, it's stir-the-pot time:  



> Wacky Bennet was the one guy who seemed to be able to see the future of this distant outpost. Most of the crticisms he suffered during his long reign were that he was "building too big". People questioned all of the huge dams for electricity that we didn't need and the giant highways that we couldn't possibly fill.


The last sentence in the above quote makes my argument for me. But I shall carry on:

The distant outpost made a zillion-dollar sweetheart deal with the U.S. for another bold, progressive, big project to turn a quarter of the province into a dam for the benefit of Las Vegas casinos — with the province to be flooded on the decision of the U.S., not by Canada or the grasping, syncophantic flunkies who ran B.C.



> They inherited a prosperous, thriving Province and proceeded to dismantle the whole thing!
> 
> One of their most cherished (and totally FALSE) leftist ideal is this .."if you build more roads, more cars will simply fill them up. Consequently, if you build LESS roads...or NO roads...there will be no new automobiles to occupy them"


Mexico City, Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York, Chicago, London, Paris, Rome, Tokyo. . . . Why can't Vancouver be like them, dammit? Curse them snivelling lefties!



> Every year, several thousand families move into the Vancouver area from somewhere else. ALL of them bring at least one car with them. Some bring several.
> 
> But the highways in and out of the city haven't expanded since I lived there in the late eighties. And there were big traffic jams way back then!


Several thousand families move everywhere, each bringing at least one car. Vancouver's influx is as nothing to that of Toronto's and Calgary's, to name only two cities in Canada affected to a much greater degree. Mexico City is a toxic wasteland where people breathe without surgical masks at their peril. Tokyo is a madman's nightmare with entrepreneurs selling masks at intersections. Los Angeles's vaulted freeway system is a plate of spaghetti turned into a parking lot, with the air so thick new cars in 2005 much be zero-pollution golf carts. London is so bad, the lefty mayor (about whom another thread would be fun) charges tolls to enter. Paris is a joke, and Rome, well, Rome is Rome, where all drivers among the sextillion cubed think they are Ben Hur reincarnated.

So, you're right. It's the unleft who are the road-builders, but your argument has turned to dust. After 60 years of the unleft in B.C., where are all the super highways? Where are the double-decker eight-lane bridges? Why is the Trans-Canada through B.C. a third-world joke? Did the lefties spirit the roads off to Mars? Why did Campbell renege on his promise to turn the Coca-Cola Highway over to a monopoly, as Harris turned Ontario's newly built Highway 407 over to Tory Party cronies who demand extortionist tolls and were about to be hauled through the courts charged with criminal usury (3,000-per-cent interest on monthly bills).

Vancouver's roads and highways were clogged arteries from the mid-'60s onward — that didn't develop over some dark night in the ’80s. If you lived in Harris's fiefdom, you'd blame the 16-lane parking lots on the four years the NDP were in office.



> And the socialist NDP managed all of this destruction and decline in what HAD BEEN the single most prosperous Province in Canada...at the very same time that the rest of North America was experiencing the longest sustained boom period in the history of the continent!!
> 
> Quite an accomplishment.
> 
> ...


This contradicts your entire argument. From complaining about roads being incapable of handling the massive influx of multi-car families you complain about an outflow (maybe the traffic jams are on Vancouver exit ramps only), and the province couldn't borrow a cup of sugar.

If B.C. was ever the most prosperous in Canada, it must have been in a parallel universe. Ontario, and Alberta — the latter at least since the ’70s — would laugh at the conceit.

And you would prevent anyone leaving that garden of Eden until their education costs are returned to your people's republic. What would be your punishment for these sadly misinformed







patriots trying to escape over the wall?

[ July 25, 2003, 12:56 AM: Message edited by: Etaoin Shrdlu ]


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## mbaldwin (Jan 20, 2003)

We moved to Vancouver in January 2000 from Ottawa. I think what we did worked out well. We flew out a few weeks before and got a nice but reasonably priced apartment that was located near downtown and allowed us to get to our respective places of work easily. This gave us some time to truly explore the city and find a place we could call home.

Had we just gone straight to Kitsilano (as everyone and their dog said we should do) I would have been very disappointed. Sure, it's a great place, but it doesn't suit our particular lifestyle.

Instead, a couple years ago we bought a condo that overlooks a beautiful stretch of forest in North Vancouver. This allowed us to get the puppy we always wanted since we are a 5 minute drive (or a casual 20 minute walk) from a vast network of wonderful mountain trails.









We love how things turned out. I highly recommend you take the time to find your ideal place too.

As for jobs in the high-tech industry, the best online resource is BC Technology. Of course, the other usual suspects (Monster, etc.) work too.

Moving here wasn't too bad since the relocation was paid by my wife's employer. But as someone who grew up in Saskatchewan, I second the motion that you do *not* attempt to drive across the country in winter.

Other miscellaneous tips:
- Prepare for some mild culture shock. Attitudes are different in every region of the country, and I really noticed it when moving here.
- There is a monthly charge for health care cards here. Thankfully, this is covered by most employers' benefit plans.
- Prepare to be a lot more patient when trying to drive somewhere. You're likely not going to get there in a hurry.  Oh, and flashing green traffic lights do not mean the same thing they do in other provinces like Ontario...
- The first winter will be rough. But after a couple years you may even begin to enjoy the rain. Hey, stop laughing! I'm serious!  

Feel free to PM me with any questions about the move. I'd be glad to help.

- Martin.


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## mbaldwin (Jan 20, 2003)

Oh, and the winters may be a bit wet but summer weather in Vancouver kicks major butt.









- Martin.


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## james_squared (May 3, 2002)

Hello,



> Oh, and flashing green traffic lights do not mean the same thing they do in other provinces like Ontario...


That's a good one!

When we moved from Prince George to Guelph, we were told about this one from a friend of mine in Toronto. It had never occurred to me that it could be a lot more traumatic going from Ontario to BC.

James


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

*Macnutt said:
We will all be collectively paying for the stupidity and lack of foresight of the former NDP Government until our kids are well into middle age here in BC.* 

Then can we start paying for the massive deficits that the Liberals have been creating! Each year is bigger than the last! It was a record 3 billion or so in 2001, and then an estimated 4.5 billion in 2002! I don't know what the estimate is for this year, but i am sure it is big too!

*rebuilding of the Lions gate bridge that ran about three years over schedule and about five times the original budget with no real improvement in the traffic situation*

Also, while it cannot be denied that the Lions Gate Bridge project ran way long and way over budget, but if you think that it wasn't a massive improvement, you're nuts. They didn't add a lane, but they did make it so that cars can pass each other without scraping up their paint jobs, which allows traffic to flow a lot easier and faster. Regardless of whether it was a union debacle, you are also nuts if you think it didn't need to be done.

--PB


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## mbaldwin (Jan 20, 2003)

> </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Oh, and flashing green traffic lights do not mean the same thing they do in other provinces like Ontario...


That's a good one!

When we moved from Prince George to Guelph, we were told about this one from a friend of mine in Toronto. It had never occurred to me that it could be a lot more traumatic going from Ontario to BC.
</font>[/QUOTE]I'm just glad I took a cab for my first trip from the airport to the hotel.









For those that may be confused, in Ontario a (fast) flashing green light is equivalent to an anvanced left turn arrow. In British Columbia a (slow) flashing green light indicates that the intersection is pedestrian-controlled and only has lights in the "busy" direction. The other direction only has stop signs. When a pedestrian pushes the walk button then these lights will go red like a normal intersection and then back to flashing green. Nice for pedestrians, but a little odd.

Also, the law in BC says that motorists must stop for any pedestrian that has stepped off the curb and wants to cross at any intersection - crosswalk or not. In reality, don't count on it happening. Although I have noticed sting operations being run by the RCMP here in North Van that seem to be helping this.

- Martin.


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