# Alternative to Apple TV



## zc11 (Jul 21, 2008)

This will be nothing new to some of you, but I just wanted to post it for those of you who are jonesing for an Apple TV but can't find the cash or can't convince yourselves or others that it's a reasonable purchase.

I liked the idea of Apple TV, but wasn't completely convinced that purchasing one would actually make sense. From what I read, Apple TV sounded like a giant iPod with a remote. I figured that a PC (or Mac), running iTunes and connected to a television, should be able to replicate all of the functionality of Apple TV and then some (with the iPhone or iPod Touch as a remote). The plan was to set up my PC to run video through my television and audio through my home theatre system, with the option of controlling the PC traditionally (keyboard and mouse) or with a "remote" (iPhone).

*Required Bits and Pieces:* (bold items are minimum requirements to equal Apple TV)

*1. PC with WiFi and iTunes -- had to buy a USB Wifi adapter ($50)
2. DVI to HDMI cable -- $50
3. Wireless router -- kind of goes without saying
*4. Wireless keyboard & mouse -- $60 (optional)
5. iPhone or iPod Touch (jailbroken) -- already had (optional)
*6. VNC software for iPhone and PC/Mac -- freeware or commercial (optional)
*7. Wireless trackpad software for iPhone -- $3 (optional)
8. Simplify Media -- free iPhone and desktop software

*Total outlay on this project:* $160 for "required" stuff. Compared to $250/$350 for Apple TV. 

1. I connected the PC to the wide-screen TV using a DVI to HDMI cable. Voila! Instant large-screen monitor with *720p as default*. When I set my PC's resolution to the max allowable by my graphics card (1920x1080) then the television *automatically switches to 1080p*.

2. I connected the audio out from my PC sound card to one of the audio inputs of my home theatre system. Now I get *surround sound *when using the computer as well. Great for movies...silly for everything else.

3. I wanted to ditch the wired keyboard and mouse, so I installed Logitech wireless equivalents. Now I can do all of my web browsing, word processing, etc. from the couch. I use Qwasipad software on my iPhone to use it as a trackpad if I don't feel like using the mouse or using the VNC software.

4. I have VNC client and server software on my iPhone and on my PC, so I can control the PC via the iPhone or the iPhone via the PC. For PC VNC I use TightVNC. On the iPhone I use Veency by Saurik (server app...optional, and only available for jailbroken phones) and Jaadu VNC (client app). I've also tried Mocha VNC lite but prefer the Jaadu client. *Using the VNC software over WiFi or 3G, I can view and control my PC (and, therefore, my sound system) from anywhere that I can get a 3G or WiFi signal. It's great for changing music without having to go into the living room.*

5. With iTunes on the WiFi-enabled PC, I can log in and download audio and video and have them play on the home theatre system and television+home theatre system, respectively. I'm also not limited with respect to what files I can play or where I can get them from. Storage-wise, I have just as much space as I would have had with the $350 Apple TV (500 GB HDD with 250 GB free and additional external HDD space if needed).

6. Using Simplify Media I can also stream music from any of our computers (1 other desktop and 2 laptops) +/- friends' and families' computers (up to 30 libraries in total) to my PC and then through my home theatre system. Again, this is similar to the Apple TV, but takes things a step further using Simplify Media.

*Major Advantages: *
-less expensive than Apple TV
-more functional (play music from outside iTunes as well (MP3s, streamed music from up to 30 other computers), play movies from outside iTunes, with potential for greater resolution than with Apple TV, greater storage space (depending on the size of your HDD and any external drives)
-just as with Apple TV, doesn't matter if you use a PC or Mac

*Disadvanatage: * 
-the hardware is potentially not as pretty as the Apple TV unit, depending on what desktop or laptop you use
-takes a bit more effort to piece together
-not possible with all TVs or computers
-may leave you unable to view TV and use the computer at the same time if you don't have an extra video output and can't split the video signal.

So what of my old LCD monitor that I was using with the desktop computer? I set it up as a second monitor (2 video outs on my graphics card) so that if people want to watch TV then they can do so without me being unable to use the computer. I just switch the TV and LCD monitor so that the LCD becomes the primary, and the TV can be used for regular cable TV viewing again.

So the point is that, if you don't mind using your television screen as your monitor, then you might be able to set up your current desktop or laptop computer to fulfill the same functions as Apple TV, and then some, leaving you some extra cash to spend on whatever you like...like a new MacBook or MacBook pro (gotta love the new multi-touch trackpad!)


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

I love the way you "forgot" to include any portion of the cost of the PC.

So I can pay $160 + a PC (which, to be fair, many switchers may have a disused one lying around), spend a lot of time putting it together/troubleshooting/making disparate pieces work together, having to keep everything updated

or

Pay a bit more up front (minus the "spare" computer), easily patch it to play other formats, and stay both current and in warranty, with considerably better software, movie rentals, TV shows, etc.

I don't mean to rain on a hobbyists' parade -- it can be a lot of fun to "FrankenMac" something together -- but I know which route most Mac people would choose.


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## zc11 (Jul 21, 2008)

chas_m said:


> I love the way you "forgot" to include any portion of the cost of the PC.


No, actually. To use the Apple TV I would need my PC anyway, so that bit is moot. My point was that if you already own a computer that can run iTunes then you can potentially (and easily) replicate the functions of Apple TV. I just provided all of the other info to show that you can also, in fact, extend the function beyond what you can do with Apple TV (eg. with Simplify Media).

My options were:

A. Add Apple TV (i.e. purchase one for $250 or $350)
B. Use my PC to mimic the Apple TV (total outlay of $160)

As I mentioned in my write-up, this will work if you have a Mac or a PC (anything that can run iTunes). If you have a Mac then the options would be:

A. Add Apple TV (i.e. purchase one for $250 or $350)
B. Use your Mac to mimic the Apple TV (total outlay of $160)

Option B, in that case, would just require getting a miniDVI to HDMI cable and presto!

The minimum is:

-Computer running iTunes (your existing Mac or PC)
-Video cable (DVI to HDMI)
(-Audio cables if you want to connect it to your home theatre system)
(-iPhone software if you want to use your iPhone as a remote)

Your response suggests that my setup requires you to go out and purchase a new computer, which isn't the case at all. The assumption is that you already have a computer (Mac or PC) running iTunes. The rest is just a couple of cables.


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## zc11 (Jul 21, 2008)

BTW, yes I have two PC desktops and two PC laptops, but I don't come into these forums and dump on Macs or Mac users. If you have read my recent posts, you'll see that I have been considering purchasing a MacBook as well. I'm not loyal to either platform. I also happen to like both automatic and manual transmissions. Each has its merits. The writeup that I provided applies to both PC *and* Mac owners.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

zc11 said:


> B. Use my PC to mimic the Apple TV (total outlay of $160)


My point was that $160 *isn't* your total outlay unless your time is worthless.


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## zc11 (Jul 21, 2008)

chas_m said:


> My point was that $160 *isn't* your total outlay unless your time is worthless.


Really? I thought your point was that my setup required a "spare" computer...something about "$160+PC." Anyway, time-wise, it would take 20 minutes to move your computer and plug in the cables. Travel time to buy the cables is no different than that to pick up an ATV. If you want the iphone to serve as a remote then add a few more moments. Easily worth the $90-$190 savings.

Edited: to fix typo and price


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

Now now! Can't you two see that you love each other??

Seriously, this sounds like an interesting alternative to an TV for those who don't want one. I prefer both options, personally--TV and a video out from the MacBook to play anything that appears on the computer screen on the TV as well. In fact, I use this system at school all the time: MacBook with videos, music, Keynote presentations, notepad, iPhoto, whatever hooked up to a projector via the DV video out and the audio out going to a PA system or even small powered speakers. Works great. We use the TV at home all the time, plus it's great for rentals. We can start watching about 30 seconds after we rent. I can even take the TV to school and hook it up to a projector, and the iPod Touch can work as a remote. Gotta love Apple technology. In fact, I think I'm going to buy a second TV for the new house (one upstairs, one down) and maybe another EyeTV doohickey for recording shows. Great combination.


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## zc11 (Jul 21, 2008)

fjnmusic said:


> Now now! Can't you two see that you love each other??
> 
> Seriously, this sounds like an interesting alternative to an TV for those who don't want one.


Fair enough. To me, it appeared to be a misreading/misunderstanding and shouldn't have been an argument at all.

I don't expect the *average* Apple or PC user to be at all interested in doing this. That said, though, those on this forum are far from being typical users. Most people aren't looking to jailbreak perfectly good phones and thereby void their warranties. Most people don't spend hours per week reading Mac forums or complaining about Apple's NDA. Most people aren't interested in Boxee or in hacking their Apple TVs.

I expect my idea to appeal to those who like to tinker with things and to those who are coming in here and asking about the advantages/disadvantages of Apple TV or Apple TV vs XYZ:

http://www.ehmac.ca/ipod-itunes-iphone-apple-tv/69489-apple-tv-vs-hd-wizards-tvix-7000a.html
http://www.ehmac.ca/ipod-itunes-iphone-apple-tv/69955-boxee-invites.html
http://www.ehmac.ca/ipod-itunes-iphone-apple-tv/69802-apple-tv-first-impression-dissapointed.html
http://www.ehmac.ca/ipod-itunes-iphone-apple-tv/69779-apple-tv-40gb-pros-cons-help.html
http://www.ehmac.ca/ipod-itunes-iphone-apple-tv/69771-media-center-alternatives-vs-apple-tv.html
http://www.ehmac.ca/ipod-itunes-iph...what-s-benefits-comparison-cable-tv-dvds.html
http://www.ehmac.ca/ipod-itunes-iphone-apple-tv/68709-divx-wmv-appletv.html
http://www.ehmac.ca/ipod-itunes-iphone-apple-tv/68109-apple-tv-patchstick.html

It's an alternative that some will consider.

If you already happen to have VNC and trackpad software installed, as I did, then the time required is really minimal. To me, 1/2 hour spent to save $190 isn't insignificant. It's literally _(1) Move computer next to tv; (2) plug DVI end of cable into computer and HDMI end into TV; (3) use audio cables to connect computer and home theatre system; (4) enjoy; _(5) add wireless keyboard and mouse, if interested; (6) add an iPhone or iPod Touch into the mix, if interested (for remote). 

Running two cables from the back of your computer to the back of your TV set is no more difficult than connecting the Apple TV to your TV set. If you don't already know anything about this, then figuring it out may take some research and, therefore, time; if you do already know that 'DVI out' can connect directly to 'HDMI in' and that 'audio out' can connect to 'audio in' (and your computer and TV have the appopriate connectors) then the time required is minimal. 

If you wouldn't know what an HDMI input looks like, or whether or not your computer has video/mini display/VGA/s-video out then you are probably not the type to be interested in doing this rather than just buying an Apple TV, anyway, and you are not my intended audience. I realize that the route that I chose isn't for everyone. Then again, though, what is?


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## zc11 (Jul 21, 2008)

I wanted an Apple TV until I read more about it. Everything I read confirmed this statement, attributed to Steve Jobs: 

*"If it's on iTunes, it's on AppleTV." 
*
My reaction to that was "Well, I already have iTunes on my computer, so what extra would I get from Apple TV?"

Apple TV is like a large iPod or hard drive with a variant of iTunes installed on it and a remote control that can be used with it. Apple's purpose was for Apple TV to be an easy, straightforward way to integrate iTunes and the iTunes Store into your home theatre system (video and audio); they accomplished that goal.

What some people might not realize, though (and the reason for my post), is that if you have a recent Mac or PC then it's no more difficult to integrate that computer (which already has WiFi and iTunes) into your home theatre system. The advantage is that you also end up with a large-screen monitor for your computer. The disadvantage is that it places your computer in a situation where (unless you perform a couple of tweaks) you can no longer watch TV and use your computer at the same time.


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## zc11 (Jul 21, 2008)

Coles Notes comparing Connecting Apple TV to your home theatre system and connecting your existing recent Mac or PC to your home theatre system. Please not that the ATV and Mac info is just gathered from perusing their specs on the Apple site. Please correct me if I'm wrong about the setup.

*Connecting Your Apple TV
*
-Video: (a) HDMI cable from Apple TV to your TV set; or (b) component cable from Apple TV to your TV set
-Audio: Optical audio cable from Apple TV to your TV set; or (b) RCA audio cable from Apple TV to your TV set
-Control: remote (comes with TV) or iPhone/iPod Touch (download free software)
-*Total: 2 cables required*


*Connecting your Mac (iMac, Mac Mini, MacBook)
*
-Video (Mac Mini): DVI to HDMI cable ($50)
-Video (iMac): MiniDVI to DVI adapter ($25) + DVI to HDMI cable ($50)
-Video (Macbook): MiniDisplay to DVI adapter ($34) + DVI to HDMI Cable ($50)
-Audio (all): mini (3.5mm) to RCA cable ($20 or less anywhere, or $40 from Apple)
-*Total: 2 cables for Mac Mini and 3 cables for iMac and MacBook*


*Connecting your PC
*
-Video: DVI to HDMI cable ($50)
-Audio: Optical Audio cable or Mini (3.5mm) to RCA cable ($20 or less...<$5 online)
-*Total: 2 cables required*


*The point: *If you have a recent Mac or PC then integrating it into your home theatre system, from a technical standpoint, is really no different than connecting an Apple TV to your home theatre system.

Once set up, you can use your computer as usual (with wired or wireless keyboard and mouse). If you have a Mac then the Apple remote is also an option. If you have a PC and want the "remote control" experience then you can download free VNC software for your iPhone or iPod Touch that will allow you to control every aspect of your computer from anywhere (gives you a mini version of your computer screen on your iPhone or iPod Touch via WiFi or 3G).


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## JustAMacUser (Oct 21, 2007)

zc11 said:


> What some people might not realize, though (and the reason for my post), is that if you have a recent Mac or PC then it's no more difficult to integrate that computer (which already has WiFi and iTunes) into your home theatre system. The advantage is that you also end up with a large-screen monitor for your computer. The disadvantage is that it places your computer in a situation where (unless you perform a couple of tweaks) you can no longer watch TV and use your computer at the same time.


You're absolutely correct. I used to do this in my house until we got our Apple TV. It's pretty simple to connect a computer to a TV these days and significantly more affordable than purchasing another device exclusively for this purpose.

We now have an Apple TV and I really like the convenience of it. I've also hacked mine and it runs as a bittorrent client, file server, and with the ATVFiles plugin and Perian, I can watch files right from the Apple TV without converting them into an iTunes-friendly format.

If someone is looking for an economical solution, just plugging their computer into the TV is the way to go. If they have a bit more money, the Apple TV is a nice solution. If they have even more money and want a more feature-rich media centre solution, than a Mac Mini is probably the next best choice.


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## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

The only problem with this is that I would have to get a long video cable, and an IR repeater to run to my TV. My computer is not in the same room as my TV. If it was, I'd probably just get rid of the TV.

If I had an HD TV, I'd get an Apple TV. Would it really have cost them that much to stick an S-Video port on the back of the Apple TV? If they did, I'd buy one right now.


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

zc11 said:


> I figured that a PC (or Mac), running iTunes and connected to a television, should be able to replicate all of the functionality of Apple TV and then some (with the iPhone or iPod Touch as a remote)


See also: Would connecting my imac to t.v with hdmi give me a clear...

And an excellent post by chas_m from that thread...


chas_m said:


> Well, let me see:
> 
> Cost of Apple TV: $249 for base model (from Apple.ca, one could probably do better elsewhere)
> 
> ...


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## ertman (Jan 15, 2008)

I have been doing this with my laptop when I want to watch something on my laptop on my TV.

However, I would love to get an appleTV because it is a stand alone player and consumes less power than running a full computer.

Reasons why I probably wont be getting one.
It is a little expensive for the limitations regarding functionality.
Probably will get a mac mini in the future because it plays dvd's, can surf web, check email etc.
It can't record shows.

What I would like to see is an appleTV/macminiMEDIA device, that allows me to do some basic computing functions (write up a document, email web browse), but not necessarily heavy computing tasks. Can attach usb recorder and record shows. It doesn't even need a DVD player, I want to rip them

I would like to see the above device as I will still use my computer for computing, but will be able to do quick small things, play my ripped dvd's etc. basically all lifestyle activities.


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## zc11 (Jul 21, 2008)

Bjornbro said:


> See also: Would connecting my imac to t.v with hdmi give me a clear...
> 
> And an excellent post by chas_m from that thread...


I don't see what point you're trying to make about drilling. If, in setting this up, you're jeopardizing your security deposit then you're doing something very wrong. Thanks for the link to the other thread, though. I hadn't seen that one, before.

My computer was in a different room from the television -- computer and wireless router in den, television in living room. I unplugged the computer, moved it into the living room, next to the TV, plugged it back in, then connected the DVI-HDMI cable and the audio cable to the TV and stereo system, respectively. There were no "renovations" required. None of the TV's other connections had to be touched.


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## zc11 (Jul 21, 2008)

ertman said:


> ...I would love to get an appleTV because it is a stand alone player and consumes less power than running a full computer.
> 
> Reasons why I probably wont be getting one.
> It is a little expensive for the limitations regarding functionality.
> ...


That's pretty much where I was when I decided to just use my computer. I like the idea and design of the ATV, but not its limitations in stock form.

Edited: My post, below, sums it up. Ideal for me would be something that has the capabilities of my setup, but the styling and compactness of the ATV. There's absolutely no way I would switch to ATV at this point. It would be like going from a jailbroken iPhone to stock again.


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## titans88 (Oct 3, 2007)

chas_m said:


> My point was that $160 *isn't* your total outlay unless your time is worthless.


I don't think that was your point at all! Clearly you were implying one would either need to purchase a new computer or have a spare one lying around.

Nonetheless, i'm with you - i'd prefer an Apple TV setup over the OP's solution.


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## zc11 (Jul 21, 2008)

titans88 said:


> I don't think that was your point at all!


I doubt that anybody does.




titans88 said:


> Nonetheless, i'm with you - i'd prefer an Apple TV setup over the OP's solution.


Each of them is a compromise. I would rather have something that _looks_ like the Apple TV but _functions_ like my setup. Unfortunately I don't do hardware


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## zc11 (Jul 21, 2008)

Terrible video of the setup (filmed using digital camera): 

Desktop Computer Connected to HDTV on Yahoo! Video

The video shows me switching from TV to computer, then opening iTunes, the iTunes store, and a video. You might have to update your Adobe Flash player to view it (http://www.adobe.com/go/getflash)


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