# I Need Some Expert Help. Can An Email Be Retrieved?



## SINC

Here is my situation. 

Yesterday in the early afternoon I received an email from a corporation that agreed to a proposal I had made to them a couple of days earlier.

I was not home and read the email in the gmail account of Apple Mail on my iPhone 8 Plus.

When I got home about an hour later, I turned on my MacBook Pro and checked my email.

There was no sign of the email in Apple Mail at all. 

I pulled my phone from my pocket to reread the email and it was still there. A half hour later when I checked my mail again, it had vanished from my iPhone as well.

I then went to my gmail webmail account and there was no record of that email there either.

As this is an important email, I would like to know if I can recover it. I suspect now that the email was somehow removed from both my devices by the sender. Is that possible?

And if it is, can that email be recovered from my Apple mail account?

I would appreciate any assistance in solving this puzzling situation.


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## eMacMan

Don, that is the only reason I still use POP on my main Shaw account.

Are there any other eMails missing? I ask as it may be possible that the provider may have had a glitch and the eMail in question had not yet made it onto the back-up used to restore your account. Anyways it's just a thought.


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## pm-r

> I would appreciate any assistance in solving this puzzling situation.


Is it available in your iCloud email stuff if you use it, which I gather you do.

Just a maybe as iCloud seems to screw most usable things up pretty well. :-(


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## SINC

I do use iCloud, but not for the email in question, that I identified as a gmail account in my original post and I tried there online as well with no luck.


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## pm-r

> Don, that is the only reason I still use POP on my main Shaw account.



That's just one of several reasons I do the same. ;D


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## polywog

You could try an advanced search in gmail for the email address in question. I don't know that it includes the trash though (or whatever it's called for gmail) so you might need to check that manually. If threaded messages are turned on, and you started to reply, it may also be in drafts?


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## pm-r

Or maybe try a web search?
Like:
https://www.google.ca/search?client...F-8&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=3GClWpLyE-3e8Af0kZP4Dw

I'd say it's doubtful but worth a try, but gmail does seem to do some email things a bit differently. Especially if it's a IMAP email account that's involved. I'm not sure if they use a "cloud" or if it was even enabled.

- Patrick
======


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## rgray

Gmail seems to put everything I don't want to save in the Archive folder. But I suppose you have already checked that........ Just sayin'.....


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## smashedbanana

Is it possible the sender recalled the message?


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## TiltAgain

smashedbanana said:


> Is it possible the sender recalled the message?


Is it even possible to recall a message that has been read?

Don, I second the suggestion to look in their Archive folder. 

Cheers


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## smashedbanana

TiltAgain said:


> Is it even possible to recall a message that has been read?
> 
> Don, I second the suggestion to look in their Archive folder.
> 
> Cheers


With gmail yes


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## SINC

Further research has revealed that you can indeed "unsend" an email using Google Mail.

See how at this link: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/2819488?co=GENIE.Platform=Desktop&hl=en

What I want to know, is can one restore that email via some other method?


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## SINC

Still trying to find that email. I tried Time Machine, but since I only connect my MacBook Pro once a day for backup it is no where to be found.

Since this email once existed on my hard drive, there must be some way to access it. While Gmail removed if from the server, should it not still exist somewhere on my hard drive? All I know is the name of the person who sent the email and the email address of the department of the corporation that sent it.

There has to be a way!


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## SINC

Contacted Apple iPhone support, they know of no way to retrieve it on my iPhone, even once it was read. It never was opened on my MacBook Pro. The saga continues.


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## pm-r

smashedbanana said:


> Is it possible the sender recalled the message?



Not even possible once the email has been sent.


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## SINC

pm-r said:


> Not even possible once the email has been sent.


That is not right, see post #12 above.


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## pm-r

SINC said:


> That is not right, see post #12 above.



That only applies if the SENDER was using the option with their gmail or maybe Microsoft Outlook account and I believe it must be done within about maybe 60 seconds max I believe after sending. And even then it's not 100% reliable.


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## pm-r

Would any of these suggestions work???

_*Recover Deleted Email: Outlook/Gmail/Hotmail/Yahoo Mail Messages*_
https://www.easeus.com/file-recovery/recover-deleted-email-files.html

Or maybe even this??? 
_*How To Recover Deleted Emails From Apple Mail On A Mac*_
https://www.prosofteng.com/blog/how-to-retrieve-deleted-emails/

Doubtful, I would think… :-(


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## SINC

pm-r said:


> That only applies if the SENDER was using the option with their gmail or maybe Microsoft Outlook account and I believe it must be done within about maybe 60 seconds max I believe after sending. And even then it's not 100% reliable.


If you read the link you will find that it can be undone up to 24 hours later and is controlled by the sender who must set the details and time frames prior to sending the email. I too thought this was a very limited option. Turns out it is not and is not restricted to gmail. There are other programs out there that will allow people to retract emails with ease and with plenty of time from sending the mail. It is something I knew nothing about until I began some research and it is truly scary that folks can do this as the potential for nefarious purposes are many.


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## rgray

This is interesting for a number of reasons. Not the least of which because it turns the accepted 'snail' maxim that the letter belongs to the addressee/recipient not to the sender, on its head.

if the sender can unsend, then, _ipso facto_, the sender owns the message, which is the exact opposite of accepted practice with 'snail'.


Seems to me, SINC, the most parsimonious solution will be to contact the sender in order to clarify the matter. YMMV!!!


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## smashedbanana

pm-r said:


> That only applies if the SENDER was using the option with their gmail or maybe Microsoft Outlook account and I believe it must be done within about maybe 60 seconds max I believe after sending. And even then it's not 100% reliable.


This is how it used to be. Also it used to be that when you recalled a messaged the recipient received an e-mail saying "so and so would like to recall a message" leaving the recipient the option to accept or reject. Times have changed and now a message can be deleted outright sending a command using the RFC822 message ID on the email to delete it outright. Which is not strictly a gmail thing but it is certainly implemented by gmail.


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## pm-r

> Seems to me, SINC, the most parsimonious solution will be to contact the sender in order to clarify the matter. YMMV!!!



That sure makes sense unless there are some other factors that haven't been mentioned involved. ;-)


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## macintosh doctor

time machine does not cover eMails.. 
i had an issue with email once and time machine will not recover emails from Gmail or exchange or imap only if they are "on my Mac" meaning pop and downloaded.. 

Just out of curiosity - have you rebuilt your Apple mail , doubt it will work but worth a try..


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## SINC

Long post to update, so scroll down for an explanation of my issue.



polywog said:


> You could try an advanced search in gmail for the email address in question. I don't know that it includes the trash though (or whatever it's called for gmail) so you might need to check that manually. If threaded messages are turned on, and you started to reply, it may also be in drafts?


Tried, Failed.



eMacMan said:


> Don, that is the only reason I still use POP on my main Shaw account.
> 
> Are there any other eMails missing? I ask as it may be possible that the provider may have had a glitch and the eMail in question had not yet made it onto the back-up used to restore your account. Anyways it's just a thought.


Tried, Failed.



pm-r said:


> Is it available in your iCloud email stuff if you use it, which I gather you do.
> 
> Just a maybe as iCloud seems to screw most usable things up pretty well. :-(


Tried, Failed.



pm-r said:


> That's just one of several reasons I do the same. ;D


Tried, Failed.



pm-r said:


> Or maybe try a web search?
> Like:
> https://www.google.ca/search?client...F-8&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=3GClWpLyE-3e8Af0kZP4Dw
> 
> I'd say it's doubtful but worth a try, but gmail does seem to do some email things a bit differently. Especially if it's a IMAP email account that's involved. I'm not sure if they use a "cloud" or if it was even enabled.
> 
> - Patrick
> ======


Tried, Failed.



rgray said:


> Gmail seems to put everything I don't want to save in the Archive folder. But I suppose you have already checked that........ Just sayin'.....


Tried, Failed.



smashedbanana said:


> Is it possible the sender recalled the message?


That is exactly what took place.



TiltAgain said:


> Is it even possible to recall a message that has been read?
> 
> Don, I second the suggestion to look in their Archive folder.
> 
> Cheers


Tried, Failed.



pm-r said:


> Would any of these suggestions work???
> 
> _*Recover Deleted Email: Outlook/Gmail/Hotmail/Yahoo Mail Messages*_
> https://www.easeus.com/file-recovery/recover-deleted-email-files.html
> 
> Or maybe even this???
> _*How To Recover Deleted Emails From Apple Mail On A Mac*_
> https://www.prosofteng.com/blog/how-to-retrieve-deleted-emails/
> 
> Doubtful, I would think… :-(


Tried, Failed.



rgray said:


> This is interesting for a number of reasons. Not the least of which because it turns the accepted 'snail' maxim that the letter belongs to the addressee/recipient not to the sender, on its head.
> 
> if the sender can unsend, then, _ipso facto_, the sender owns the message, which is the exact opposite of accepted practice with 'snail'.
> 
> 
> Seems to me, SINC, the most parsimonious solution will be to contact the sender in order to clarify the matter. YMMV!!!


The email was sent by the office of the city manager of St. Albert. It granted permission for my home to be removed from the mandatory install list of a Neptune smart water meter complete with transmitter to monitor water usage in my home. 

I and many others had objected to the install as we feared for our privacy and the city reacted to the backlash by announcing an opt out method sometime in April once it had been passed by council. In the meantime, council ordered the install process to begin in February and my neighbourhood was among one of the first selected so Neptune was making demands to enter my home. Appeals to mayor and council to delay installation until the opt out details were rejected. In other words it would be installed against my wishes and supposedly removed later and we all know how that would turn out, don't we?

The mayor and council were copied the email that granted me the temporary reprieve but as soon as they became aware of the email, they ordered the city manager to unsend the email immediately, which tells me they will never offer an opt out method in spite of announcing it in the local paper back in December of 2017. 

I read it on my iPhone, but did not copy it. It disappeared within a half hour or so. I now have no proof that the city utility department granted my request for an extension until council made the details of the opt out plan available to the public. While I remember the original content of the email clearly as well as the name of the sender in the city manager's office, I don't recall the exact email address and am without proof I ever got it.

So far demands from Neptune have ceased, but they may resume at any time and I am under threat of having my water disconnected if I fail to comply.

Perhaps that will help explain my desire to find that email.



macintosh doctor said:


> time machine does not cover eMails..
> i had an issue with email once and time machine will not recover emails from Gmail or exchange or imap only if they are "on my Mac" meaning pop and downloaded..
> 
> Just out of curiosity - have you rebuilt your Apple mail , doubt it will work but worth a try..


Tried, Failed.


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## pm-r

> Tried, Failed.


I figured that was what the missing/removed email was about considering the letters in your SAP blog.

But I'm wondering if there isn't at least some sort of Mail email message log kept somewhere, but I couldn't find anything with a quick google search or in my Console list.

It makes one wonder about the US and their running presidents and their various "missing" email messages eh?? 



- Patrick
======


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## rgray

When you think it thru in the case of Gmail Google has control of everything including storage in IMAP. It is nothing for them, in gmail to gmail, to disappear a message. Could they accomlish the same with amail sent from google to another service? What are the ethica of this? Who owns a message? Sender or addressee? What does this mean, speaking legally, for the usefulness of email if one cannot trust that a message will stay received?...... if it can be yanked back on a whim?

The lesson here may be that one cannot trust Gmail to Gmail service!!!


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## wonderings

did you try the trash on your phone? The only way I can see an email deleting is if you swipe and trash the email on your phone. I had that happen with a boarding pass, I had the email saved on my phone. Got through security and everything but between the desk before getting on the plane and actually boarding the plane I deleted the email. I had to stand at the front of the plane and try and figure out where it went as they would not seat me without it. Anyways, long story short I had somehow deleted it and found it in the trash on my phone. Pretty sure if you delete a message it automatically goes to the trash folder till you empty it or it empties itself after a certain period of time.


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## SINC

Trouble is I did not trash the message on the iPhone. I simply read it and left it in the inbox. Read it a second time about 20 minutes later but an hour later, no trace of it at all.


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## rgray

I think it is pretty clear that the message in question was withdrawn (by whatever means).

The representation of "your (??) gmail" seen on your computer, phone etc., is NOT static. In IMAP it is just the latest version of what Google has on their server from the last time your machine checked the mail. It is completely labile and it would seem a trivial task for Google to 'disappear' a message for whatever reason. If I have this correctly the only way you could have saved that message would be to move it to a mailbox "on my Mac", 'print' to .pdf. Perhaps it would do to move to a box on another service, but one is never quite sure of Google's reach............ IMHO!!!


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## pm-r

SINC said:


> Trouble is I did not trash the message on the iPhone. I simply read it and left it in the inbox. Read it a second time about 20 minutes later but an hour later, no trace of it at all.



And I guess you've looked for various solutions like these:

_Gmail messages are missing_
https://support.google.com/mail/answer/7015314?co=GENIE.Platform=Desktop&hl=en

or a big list of hits like:
_Apple Mail IMAP email message that just disappeared_ 
https://www.google.ca/search?client...F-8&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=XDixWoazG-fe8AeRlLbYDw
and

_retrieve IMAP email message that just dissapeared_ as the same above link:
https://www.google.ca/search?client...F-8&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=uzSxWsPgLObe8AegtbDgBg

PS: From what I've read, the "unsend" options in most email software that might have it only adds a delay to the actual Send function and is only for a fairly short duration and maybe just a minute or two max!! Otherwise it's sent and stays delivered.

If anyone has found anything different, please post the info and URL of the source.

But then again, it could be Apple's Mail app messing things up, and there are all kinds of hits regarding that with a search on:
_Apple Mail IMAP email message that just disappeared_
https://www.google.ca/search?client...F-8&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=XDixWoazG-fe8AeRlLbYDw

PS: I don't suppose "Rebuilding the Mailbox" would help retrieve the missing message.
Or does Spotlight happen to find anything…???… as the sender's name is known to search for??? Worth a try. 

- Patrick
======


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## pm-r

Man, here's an interesting bit to be aware of, but I believe Don's interim was much shorter than can actually be set, but not sure:


> I did some Googling and found a story in the Telegraph called "How to stop an iPhone deleting emails". It says:
> " ... assuming that you are using iPhone Mail, tap Settings on the Home screen then go to Mail, select your Account, then Advanced and under Incoming Settings tap Delete from server and chose Never."
> 
> I did this, and sure enough it was set on "delete after 7 days".


https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8231116


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## SINC

Perhaps would have worked, but not in iOS11. Such a setting does not even exist.


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## pm-r

SINC said:


> Perhaps would have worked, but not in iOS11. Such a setting does not even exist.



Wow!! Yet another removed feature to add to the growing list of recent iOS versions and their removed options/features it seems. 

Maybe pretty soon there won't be any as Apple has stated they want to make their OSes "_easy for the average user to use_". 

Having no options just might be their end goal perhaps???


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