# The FALL of Fidel Castro!



## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Many of us watched Fidel Castro fall flat on his face a week or so ago. It was all over the news.

He broke a few bones when he did his face-plant...but he was back at his desk and happily opressing his people only a few days later.

















Things seemed to be back to what passes for "normal" in Cuba, a few days after Fidel fell down and went boom, on TV. 

However...

I have a whole bunch of friends left over from my time in Cuba. I'm in contact with them on a regular basis via email (when the internet is actually working in Cuba, that is)...

They are all telling me that there is serious civil unrest in that wasted Marxist island right now. Worse than usual. Which is really something!

They are telling me that everyone is saying that Fidel must have really hit his head badly during the fall onto the concrete...because he is now poised to outlaw US dollars in Cuba!

American dollars are the accepted standard of exchange in Cuba. US dollars are real money there. Cuban pesos are completely worthless. Everyone knows and accepts this. Have done for a decade and a half. (BTW..they DON'T accept Canadian dollars. Ever.)

But now, Fidel is making US dollars illegal!

This would be like outlawing Canadian dollars here in Canada...and then demanding that all Canadians begin using worthless Canadian Tire money for ALL of our purchases!   

Nobody in Cuba...especially Cubans...thinks of Cuban Pesos as anything more valuable than toilet paper. In fact, because of the chronic lack of toilet paper in that country, the Cubans sometimes use pesos as buttwipe!

It's cheaper than charmin. And more readily available.









The fact of the matter is that many Cubans will still be able to obtain US dollars. Either from tourists or from family members who have escaped to the USA.

But they can no longer use them to buy things in Cuba.  

Now...all of a sudden...they must exchange them for worthless Cuban pesos, at a Fidel-approved bank (not many of those in all of Cuba...lemme TELL ya).

And...get this...the already poor Cubans must now pay a ten per cent levy, in order to exchange their real US dollars for zero-value Cuban Pesos!

What a joke!

The Cubans already have a standard of living that is just barely above that of Haiti... it is the second WORST in the whole hemisphere, and one of the very lowest on the whole planet...and they are now being squeezed into an even lower standard of living by their long-term tyrant!!

Mass demonstrations are becoming more common in Cuba these days (but you won't hear much about these...until they get violent. Fidel controls ALL of the media.) and the utter hatred amongst the Cubans that is directed at Fidel, grows every single day.

It's only a matter of time until Fidel Castro falls for REAL.

Probably FLAT on his FACE.









Want to see a ragged remenant of the old failed socialist system that used to dominate much of this planet, while it is still staggering along?

Want to catch a little time-warped piece of long-forgotten history? Before it dissappears forever?

Then I invite you to visit Cuba in the next eighteen months or so. And get far away from the resorts of Varadero, when you go there.

Get out and look around. Take in the reality of everyday Cuban existence, as it is today.

It'll be long gone and totally forgotten, very soon. So will Fidel and his failed "revolution".

The end for this whole silly mess is very near. Watch and see.

Trust me on this.


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

Once again, you provide us with a Bush-style reductionist version. Here is the last part of an article in last week's Economist:



> But this also means that Mr Castro has once again been able to use the embargo as a pretext for imposing new restrictions on his people. As part of what he calls America's “imperialist economic warfare”, Mr Castro cited the $100m fine that the Federal Reserve imposed on UBS, a Swiss bank, in May, for illegally transferring freshly printed dollar notes to Cuba. According to some reports this had made it harder for Cuba to renew its stock of dollars in circulation. Hours before Mr Castro's announcement, the Treasury had announced sanctions against Sercuba, a company with offices in Cuba and Europe that allows Americans to send money to Cuba via a website.
> 
> Such sanctions make the unpopular move of withdrawing the dollar much easier: blame America. It is yet another example of how, far from undermining Mr Castro, the embargo has consistently been his biggest political prop.


The rest of the article reinforces many of the points you make but also details how impractical it is to run an economy with two currencies. FYI Russia and satellites banned the use of the dollar with harsh penalties about 5 years ago and the double system virtually disappeared overnight. Those who don't trust the Rouble (Peso) simply exchange fewer at a time. This allows for proper monetary policy. Obviously, another opportunity to make the Looney the Caribbean currency!


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Canadian dollars are worthless in Cuba. Despite the fact that Canadians are revered as long-term friends, by all Cubans. You cannot exchange Canadian dollars outside of the resort areas. Sometimes not even IN the resort areas.

Euros are also worthless. So is every other currency, except the US dollar.

But now, Fidel has decreed the US dollar to be "worthless" and, as of a few days from now, he demands that all US dollars be exchanged for zero-value Cuban Pesos.

He is also rapidly closing all of the stores that used to accept US dollars to buy TV sets and refrigerators and all of the other things that are not normally available in Cuba. 

Fidel has upset an already unstable applecart. And the long-suffering Cuban citizens are NOT pleased about this! Not at ALL!

The embargo is just a smokescreen. An excuse to cover the failings of a failed system that everyone else on this planet has abandoned.

And every thinking Cuban knows it.

A medical doctor in Cuba only makes about thirty dollars per month. IF that medical doctor owned a forty year old Chevrolet...and they would have to have inherited it, because you CAN'T buy a car in Cuba for love nor money...then that medical doctor would have to save up all of their spare cash for about three solid months, in order to simply buy a new set of sparkplugs..

EVEN if the US embargo was lifted yesterday, and free trade between the US and Cuba was restored. It would STILL take a Cuban doctor about three months to save enough money to buy a set of sparkpugs!

A normal Cuban citizen who WASN'T a doctor (and who was making about HALF as much in wages...fifteen bucks a month) would have to save every single spare cent they had, for six months, to buy a simple set of sparkplugs for the same inherited car. 

A car that was forty or more years old, BTW.

Do the math.

Fidel and his twisted system is the problem. NOT the so-called "embargo".

Identify the problem at it's source. Don't be fooled by smoke and mirrors.

The Cubans certainly aren't. They know the truth.

(this is just ONE of the many reasons why tens of thousands of them attempt to escape from this prison, on anything that will float, every single year)


Trust me on this.

Or....go there, and see for yourself.

[ November 05, 2004, 04:37 AM: Message edited by: MacNutt ]


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

My son will be going on a two-week student exchange to Cuba at the end of Fed. We were told in Sept. to start exchanging Canadian money for US dollar bills to send down with our sons/daughters. Now, they are not sure what to have us send down re currency. The students will not be staying at any resort, and were told to bring down all sorts of things that they might take for granted here in Canada (e.g., gum, candy, toilet paper, asperin, etc.). I shall let the likes of CubaMark take on Macnutt re the political situation in Cuba. Now that I have my Canadian passport, I am able to go to Cuba, other than the fact that I cannot afford to go now.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Dr. G...

Everything was in short supply when I was last in Cuba. It has been this way for almost four decades. And it doesn't look like things are getting any better anytime soon.

In fact...things are getting worse. Every day.

This is why so many Cubans attempt to escape from this "workers paradise" every year.

And...now that US dollars are no longer accepted as legal tender in Cuba, everything there is in complete turmoil!

The Cubans are getting very tired of their old tyrant and of his long speeches exhorting them to "uphold the glorious revolution!"

This stuff is falling on very deaf ears, these days.

Their deep hatred of him grows. Every single day. Particularly among the youth.  

Fidel is finished. So is his wasted and failed system.

It's only a matter of time. And that time is VERY near...by all accounts.

I just hope your son isn't there when the Big Change actually happens, Marc.

It could be a turbulent moment. To say the least.

I have five Canadian friends who are living in Cuba, long term. ALL of them have told me that, when the Big Change comes, they will be taking some time out in a nearby country. Until the smoke clears, and a new system is firmly in place.

None of them think that it will be just a quiet handover to another Marxist/socialist dictator. NONE of them.

Cuba is on the cusp. This "no US dollar" thing might be just the catalyst to finally tip Fidel into total oblivion.

Certainly I am hearing a lot more traffic than usual about this. The people in that country are incenced, right now. They want Fidel's head on a stick.

What will happen? Will the mood of the people prevail...or will Fidel's secret police..SEPSA...manage to maintain order in the face of this further insult to the already horribly impoverished Cubans?

Only time will tell.

We can only wait and see.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I wonder what Cuban-Americans will do once Castro dies? I don't claim to fully understand the situation, although I have never supported the embargo once the Russian missles were withdrawn in 1962. I am not afraid of sending my son down to Cuba next year, but I hope that there is no civil unrest while they are all there in Feb. We shall see.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

No one knows just exactly when the Big Change will happen, Dr. G.

But there is also no question that it WILL happen, once Fidel dies, or is finally deposed.

This "no US dollars" thing is stirring up all sorts of mierda (sh*t) in Cuba, right now.

Will it result in Fidels long-overdue departure?

No way of knowing.

But I have never personally seen this kind of major hatred, expressed so publicly, for the old tyrant, in all the years I have been connected to Cuba.

That relationship goes back to 1997, BTW.

I think that the 78 year old Fidel is in his final days, right now.

But that's just my opinion.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

While I don't support his human rights violations, I find it amazing that he has lasted this long. I thought that the Berlin Wall would not come down in my lifetime, nor the demise of the USSR. Still, Castro has outlasted both of these entities.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Fidels secret police...SEPSA...and his ruthless actions against ALL possible dissenters (twenty-five years in a nasty jail, PLUS hard times for the whole family) have kept the Cuban people in line for much longer than anyone could have imagined.

But they are rising up and asking questions, right now. Loudly.

And the SEPSA agents are not nearly as motivated as they used to be!

Especially since they have no bullets for their fancy german handguns, these days...and have to actually hitch-hike to their new assignments!







 

Once the tyrant begins to starve even his secret policemen...then the end is surely near. 

The whole silly mess is now falling apart for Fidel and Co. 









Even HE can't hold this thing together much longer. The tides of major change are poised to sweep across Cuba the same way that they have swept across all of the other former marxist/socialist states during the past decades.

And...once again...I would urge any of you who want to observe one of the very LAST Marxist/socialist states on this whole planet, and want to see it still in action before the Big Change finally takes over..

Go to Cuba!

Do it NOW!

And don't just go to one of the resorts at Varadero. You need to get out there and really SEE the place. As it really is. 

Do it before the whole place switches over to a capitalist market driven society. Complete with McDonald's and Walmarts and Radio Shacks on every second corner.

There's not much time left. Fidel doesn't have much time left.


Check it out, before the change. It's fascinating. A total time warp from an earlier age. And badly in need of repairs, and a coat of paint.

And also in need of a brand new ideology. And desperately in need of a brand new leader.

Or, if you don't believe me about all of this...then I invite you to go and look for yourself.

Make your own decisions, once you've been there, and seen for yourself.

You'll just LOVE the Cuban people. I can guarantee you that much, at least. No matter what you think of the place itself. Or how badly it's being run.

And you'll want to go back.

Trust me on this.

[ November 05, 2004, 06:26 AM: Message edited by: MacNutt ]


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

Hey Macnutt, we're still waiting for you to back up your statement of human rights' websites detailing the numbers of Cuban political detainees!

Oh...and what about those Middle Eastern medieval tyrannies?

Back up your statements or shut up.


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

Oh no, not again.

_Yawn_...


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

IronMac, Macnutt might not back up his claims, but there is verification. You might not believe in what Amnesty International has to say, but I do in most, if not all instances. Check out http://www.amnesty.org/ or http://www.amnesty.org/results/is/eng to see some of the violations in Cuba. 

For example, "Marcelo López Bañobre, a human rights defender with no past convictions, was sentenced in April to 15 years in prison for, among other activities, "sending information to international organisations like Amnesty International". His conviction was part of a crackdown in mid-March by Cuban security forces who rounded up 75 dissidents over the space of a few days. Most of the leaders of Cuba’s dissident movement, people who had been activists for a decade or more, were detained. The government claims that they were foreign agents whose activities endangered Cuban independence and security but the dissidents were not charged with recognizably criminal offences. They were given hasty and unfair trials, and, shortly after being taken into custody, were sentenced to harsh prison terms of up to 28 years. AI considers them all to be prisoners of conscience."

As someone who nearly faced 2 years in a US Federal Prison back in 1970 as a "prisoner of conscience", I take such matters seriously. I don't agree with Macnutt's approach to throwing out his views as the gospel truth, but some of what he says can be verified.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

For those who are willing to at least try to put aside 45 years of constant anti-Cuba propaganda which has seeped into their "knowledge" of that country, here is how the Cuban government responds to criticism of the trials of the 75 U.S. agents and their treatment in prison:

I first urge you to read the lengthy press conference delivered by Cuba's foreign minister to the international press at the time of the trials. This is the _other side of the story_, and if you are going to criticise or sit in judgement, you should go beyond what MacNutt or even Amnesty has to say.

Facts about the trials

As for the treatment of prisoners, here is an excerpt from another document available on that site:



> Interview with Teresa López Bañobre,
> sister of convict *Marcelo López Bañobre*
> 
> _Interviewer._- Well, how is your brother? When did you see him last?
> ...


<div align="right">*Source*</div>

Take the time to learn about Cuba and what it does to *safeguard the human rights of all Cubans*. Section Four is sufficient to make the point, but the entire document is worth examining to understand how remarkable Cuba's achievements have been, despite decades of attacks from the U.S.

Finally, and this is fresh on my mind, as we've just finished compiling an hour-long video project which examines Cuba's role in supporting the liberation struggles in Southern Africa, and in particular, Cuba's role in the Anti-Apartheid movement.

I refer you to 1991, and Nelson Mandela's visit to Cuba:


> Opponents of the Cuban revolution tried to play on the fact that Nelson Mandela was one of the world's longest held and best known political prisoners to urge on him a sense of sympathy with the “political prisoners” in Cuba.
> 
> When Mandela met with the international press following his July 26 speech, several members of the US press tried to pressure him to take a stand denouncing Cuba as a human rights violator.
> 
> ...


<div align="right">*Source**</div>

M.*


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Wow  Mandela is just plain terrific.!!! HE gets it.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

It's time to play *TRUTH or LIE* with MacNutt!

*MacNutt said:*



> Canadian dollars are worthless in Cuba .... You cannot exchange Canadian dollars outside of the resort areas. Sometimes not even IN the resort areas.


*Lie!* Canadian dollars are accepted in government stores. They are not as common as U.S. dollars or Euros, but that is changing. With the removal of the dollar from circulation, Canadians - who make up the single largest group of tourists to the island - will no longer need to buy U.S. dollars prior to travelling, something many of us are happy to see (I don't know about you, but I hate losing money on the exchange).



> Euros are also worthless. So is every other currency, except the US dollar.


*Lie!* Euros have been in circulation for several years now, and are used almost exclusively in some of the resorts. When were you there last, Gerry?



> But now, Fidel has decreed the US dollar to be "worthless" and, as of a few days from now, he demands that all US dollars be exchanged for zero-value Cuban Pesos.


*Lie!* The US dollar has not been decreed "worthless." It will simply no longer be accepted as legal tender at any business on the island. It is not "banned," it is not "illegal." Cubans will not be shot in the streets for having yanqui currency. But if they want to use U.S. dollars to buy anything, they'll have to go to the bank and exchange those dollars for EQUAL VALUE convertible pesos (not to be confused with the _moneda nacional_ pesos, which currently trade at about 26 to one... an exchange rate which is, by the way, better than Jamaica the last time I checked (41 to 1). A convertible peso is the money tourists and Cubans alike receive as change when (previously) they would spend U.S. dollars. Convertible pesos are accepted everywhere.



> A medical doctor in Cuba only makes about thirty dollars per month.


*Lie!* A medical doctor in Cuba makes approximately 350-450 pesos (moneda nacional) per month. If one were to use the official exchange rate, that comes out to 22 USD on the high end. But that's not the whole story, and anyone who quotes that figure as an indicator of how "poor" Cubans are is ignorant of Cuban economic reality or purposefully trying to mislead you. Cuban rent is capped at a tiny percentage of their monthly income (if they even pay rent - <u>most</u> Cubans *own their own homes*, crowded and/or ramshackle they may be, and pay NO rent. Electricity and telephone rates are likewise very small portions of their monthly bills. They also are guaranteed a minimum food basket, purchased through state stores on the _libreta_ or ration card, at subsidized prices. Groceries are available beyond this minimum at any of the many grocery stores or farmer's markets throughout their neighbourhoods (an excellent one is at the corner of Calle 19 and B in Vedado, Havana).

---

I'm not even going to bother going into MacNutt's car-centric worldview, where every person on the planet simply *must* have a vehicle, despite the economic and environmental impact they bring with them. Cuba, a developing nation trying to provide for each of its citizens equally and equitably, emphasizes mass transportation. If you work and a car is required for your job, one is assigned to you. You can buy and sell older vehicles (i.e, those classics from pre-1959). Many people do, to start taxi businesses, etc. Many don't, due to the obvious challenges. Cuba is not Canada. Cuba is not a country with the national wealth which would enable it to provide everyone with every modern convenience. It is also a country which is trying very hard not to permit the development of an economic class of people who would have more than their neighbours. So long as you continue to look at, analyse and judge Cuba by the standards of a first-world, capitalist country, you will continue to get it wrong. That ethnocentric perspective is one reason why Americans are all standing around scratching their asses, wondering why Cuba hasn't disintegrated yet.. because they are simply incapable of understanding social / economic organization in a form that is not their own.

And for anyone who's interested in an in-depth explanation of why MacNutt's mantra of "Cubans fleeing" is just so much B-S, I encourage you to search this forum for that subject. I'm getting really tired of retyping the same stuff all the time, as Gerry can't seem to get it through his head.

For some of our "greatest hits", check out this thread and this thread

Then again, some things can't penetrate solid granite.

M.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

"_Then again, some things can't penetrate solid granite_

Ah ha you've hit on it.....THAT's why he called it an uninhabited forest -there ARE only trees....and rocks.  

•••

Excellent post.
I'd be interested if you have time on your take on Costa Rica.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Yes, macdoc...but there are no caves on my property. So you wouldn't like it much here. No safe place from which to hide from the real world whilst making your grandiose and completly misinformed proclamations on ehmac.









Mark...

Needless to say you and I disagree totally on Fidel and his "vision" for that enchanted isle that we both love so much.

I see it as a beautiful place full of intelligent human beings that has been laid waste by a host of bad ideas. Bad ideas that, by the way, have been long abandoned by even the societies who originated them, so many years ago.

Odd about that, eh?  

Mark, you see it as a last bastion of pure socialist thinking. A classless society...where no one is rich and no one is poor. And where every citizen, no matter who they are, can expect free medical care and a good education.

On the surface that's certainly true.

But...when you look a bit closer, you begin to see some serious cracks in this shiny egalitarian sphere.

Yes...all Cubans enjoy free medical care. Rather high quality, as well. No lineups, either.

Also no air conditioning in the stifling tropical heat of the hospital. And, sometimes no electricity in the hospital, either. And no anasthetics when they run out...even for major operations. My ex-fiancee told me that many times she'd had to operate without anasthetics. I asked her how she dealt with it, and she told me "we just get five or six large orderlies to hold the patient down when we start to cut. They usually pass out, after a few seconds, and then we can get on with the procedure." 

No anasthetics, no film for the X-ray machines. Hosptals without hot water. Hypodermic needles that are re-used until they become dull...and then are sharpened again so that they can be re-used another hundred times or so...

This is the Cuban medical system. Moments of brilliance and very competent doctors, all working in an environment of constant shortages and lack of materials. 

No doubt that Mark will blame the hated "Yanquis" for all of this. Despite the fact that Cuba trades freely with more than a hundred different countries. Almost all of which have medical equipment and supplies for sale.

The educational system of Cuba is also remarkably advanced. And completely free. (well...it's free as long as you discount the mandatory public service that all Cubans must perform, in order to "pay" for their "free" higher education).

It's always a revelation, when one is in Cuba, to find out that the guy driving your taxi is a chemical engineer...or to find out that the maid cleaning your hotel room has a master's degree in advanced physics. 

I ran into a guy who had a PHD in microbiology while I was living in Camaguey. He was rebuilding Bic lighters at fifteen cents a pop from a homemade shoebox stand on the street...but he had one helluv an education!

And therin lies one of the other big cracks you will see in the silly facade down there...once you take a closer look.

No jobs.

You can become as educated as you want to in Cuba. And many do. But there is no real work for most of them. So they end up running an elevator or carrying baggage. Or rebuilding Bic lighters on the side of the road.

In doing so..they often make far more that the fifty cents per day that they would have earned, had they been able to find a job practicing the profession that they'd spent so many years training for.

Mark will blame the "hated Yanquis" for this, as well. No doubt.
















And...you want to talk about *LIES!* 

Okay...here's a few for you:

-YES, a Cuban can buy or sell an old worn out car from the fifties or early sixties. IF they have the money! A beat-up 57 Chevy fourdoor goes for about three thousand dollars. A doctor makes about three hundred and fifty bucks a year. Most people make less than half of that. Per year. Before rent and food and clothing.

Do the math.

-YES, the American dollar is not actually going to be "outlawed". But a Cuban will no longer be able to use it to actually buy anything. That same Cuban will now have to trade those hard-won US dollars in for worthless Cuban Pesos...and pay a ten per cent fee for doing so.

And Fidel has been shutting down the very few shops that actually sell stuff from outside the country. Like TV's and refrigerators and the like. So the Cubans will have even LESS places to spend those worthless pesos from their newly shrunken US dollars.

As a result, in communist Cuba...the deperately poor get even poorer...with the stroke of a pen from their long term unelected tyrant  

-On the subject of Canadian dollars:

In all my time in Cuba, I never spent a single hour at any "resort". And I never found a single place, in all of my Cuban travels, away from those resorts, that would accept Canadian dollars. NONE. ZERO. 

I suspect that it is the same for any other foreign currency. EXCEPT the US dollar...which is the accepted and preferred medium of transferring wealth all over Cuba. For everyone.

Until the day after tomorrow, november 8th. That's when the US dollar will no longer be considered "legal tender" by the Castro government.

Should be interesting to see what will happen, after that particular moment in Fidel's failing world.

Will the Cuban people go along with it? Will they simply line up and take a ten per cent hit on their already poverty-ridden lifestyles?

Will the civil unrest that is already afoot all across Cuba build into a new revolution that will finally depose their hated dictator?

Will Fidel begin a new round of mass arrests...and blame it all on "US Agents'?

Will CubaMark, once again, buy into this massive and obvious *LIE* ? And will he once again become a public apologist for Fidel and his totally failed "revolution"?

Stay tuned, folks.

It's just about to get really interesting.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Ah, more gems from the *SSIMS* (or, for those new around here, the _Salt Spring Island Misinformation Service_...

_No doubt that Mark will blame the hated "Yanquis" for all of this. Despite the fact that Cuba trades freely with more than a hundred different countries. Almost all of which have medical equipment and supplies for sale._

The U.S. embargo of Cuba is a reality, despite the fantasyworld you refuse to see beyond. Here is what Cuba has to say on the subject. 


> While the U.N. vote is nonbinding, it is a crushing moral defeat for the U.S. whose four-decade blockade has caused over $79 billion in losses and more than 3,500 deaths in Cuba.


And if the embargo is such a non-issue, why then has the United Nations, for the thirteenth consecutive year, voted to condemn the U.S. for its policy?

SSIMS: _And...get this...the already poor Cubans must now pay a ten per cent levy, in order to exchange their real US dollars for zero-value Cuban Pesos!_

This is an outright *lie*. Cubans can walk into any bank in the country and exchange their U.S. dollars for *equal value* (_not_ moneda nacional) pesos, i.e., "convertible" pesos, which is an official currency on the island. Or didn't you know about that basic economic fact? There is *NO LEVY* on that exchange if they do it before Nov. 14th.

It's a brilliant move on the part of the government, which - like economic analysts the world over - are forecasting a huge drop in purchasing power of the U.S. dollar in the coming year (it's already lost 20% of its value since Bush took office in 2000). The Cuban government takes in that hard currency very rapidly, gives its citizens equal-value pesos, and then can use that dollar - while it still holds value - to purchase goods on the international markets (where it can, given the far-reaching effects of the embargo).

SSIMS: _And Fidel has been shutting down the very few shops that actually sell stuff from outside the country._

What planet do you live on? It obviously isn't this one. Cuba closed the 'dollar stores' back in May following the latest efforts by the Bush regime to impose economic strangulation policies. This was done to give the government time to formulate new policies surrounding the dollar stores, foreign goods, and gave them an opportunity to do a comprehensive inventory. The stores reopened a week later and have been open since. So you are somewhat behind the time, my west coast nemesis.

SSIMS: _Will the Cuban people go along with it? Will they simply line up and take a ten per cent hit on their already poverty-ridden lifestyles?_

Well, according to the Associated Press:


> Because of the huge demand to dispose of the U.S. dollars that were legal tender in communist Cuba for a more than a decade, the Central Bank said Thursday that people will have an extra week to exchange their America money for a local currency tied to the dollar.


<div align="right">Source</div>

MacNutt, old fella, if the Cubans have so little confidence in their government, why would they be so eager to rid themselves of the yanqui dollar? Could it be that they feel comfortable that the convertible peso they receive in exchange will serve them just as well? In my time in Cuba (which appears to have been a very different Cuba than the one you inhabited), my friends, colleagues, and Cubans I'd meet through the course of a day treated the U.S. dollar and the convertible peso as one and the same. All that matters is what gets accepted in the stores, si?

And, to clarify (since it seems that I must speak very slowly and clearly for things to register), Cubans are *not* paying a 10-percent levy on their exchange prior to Nov. 14th. If you're wrong about this "little" detail, what else might be an inaccuracy?  

SSIMS: _Will Fidel begin a new round of mass arrests...and blame it all on "US Agents'?_

Okay, folks, pay close attention here. This is how the right-wingers do it. They say things in passing, that appear to be innocuous or part of the "acknowledged wisdom" about a particular issue, and insinuate untruths that stick in your minds. Case in point: "a new round of mass arrests" - Gee, that makes it sound like every other week, a normal occurance, Cubans are rounded up and arrested (no reason given). The reference here, of course, is actually to the 75 agents referenced previously in this thread, and for whom there is far more than sufficient proof outlining their existence and the links to the U.S. government. 

How would you feel if the U.S. were discovered to be channeling millions of dollars to the Canadian Conservative party in an attempt to overthrow the current government? Might that cause a squeak of concern from a few of us? So why are we comfortable in letting it happen to Cuba?

Even the U.S. government is aware that Cubans who wish to migrate to the "land of milk and honey" are doing so for economic reasons, not political persecution:


> _FROM:      USINT. SECT. HAVANA
> TO:        SEC. STATE, WASHINGTON
> CIA
> INS
> ...


<div align="right">Source</div>

 
M


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*SSIMS*: "poverty-ridden lifestyles"

Let's for a moment ask MacNutt what he considers to be the definition of "poverty."

As I look at the streets of the city where I live, "poverty" seems to mean:
<ul>
[*]inadequate shelter
[*]perhaps jobless
[*]unable to pay for medical care
[*]unable to pay for education
[*]unable to secure adequate nutrition
[/list]

When it comes to *shelter*, Cuba - while continuing to deal with a housing challenge which requires a higher concentration of family members per unit than is comfortable - at least does provide for everyone. Rent is also a non-issue, as it is tied to a small percentage of your income.

When it comes to *employment*, Cuba aims for full employment. Those who are not working (for example, a portion of the sugar cane farmers affected when the industry was restructured last year) continue to earn 60% of their salaries, and are placed in retraining programmes at no cost. 

*Medical care* is free. The economic situation combined with the trade embargo (which goes far beyond the U.S. simply not trading with Cuba - it affects third countries including Canada) does have serious impacts on the availability of medicines and supplies. Cuba's commitment to a pervasive and efficient preventative health care policy (i.e., staying healthy rather than focusing on curative efforts) is endorsed as a model for all nations. Maternity care continues to be a highlight of Cuba's health programme.

*Education* is free, from pre-school through Ph.D. Advancement is achieved through performance, and the nation's workforce needs are met by opening or cutting back on admittances to particular fields. If the government forecasts a need for 100 x-ray technicians, that's how many openings are made available in that area. It's a planned economy. For fields where there are no overriding national priorities, such as in some of the areas of culture and general technical work, the process is less controlled.

*Nutrition* is a challenge for a small country that has difficulty growing its own food. Nova Scotia has a population of 900,000 living in a 55,000 sq.km. area (combined urban/rural). Cuba's 11-million people occupy an area of 110,000 sq.km. 

University of New Mexico professor Nelson Valdes has compiled an examination of Cuban nutrition, comparing pre-Revolutionary Cuba with the Revolution from 1959-1980s.

Like many nations, Cuba is a net importer of food. To do so, it needs to have access to global markets, something made difficult by the U.S. embargo (it continues to be illegal for any freighter or other ship to dock in a U.S. port for six months after visiting Cuba, adding significantly to Cuba's shipping costs). The government attempts to address this reality by guaranteeing every Cuban a minimum amount of food monthly (the _libreta_). Cubans then have grocery stores and farmer's markets where they can supplement that minimum food basket in moneda nacional (those 'worthless' cuban pesos MacNutt likes to talk about, but upon which most of the Cuban daily economy revolves). 

In 1994, the year when the economic shock of losing Soviet Bloc trading partners hit the hardest, the nutritional needs of Cubans were barely being met. This excellent article by the American Association for World Health covers the impact of the embargo on top of this economic crisis.

For a brilliant and accessible source of information (in English) on Cuba and health care, check out Medicc.

M.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

If Che were alive today...
He'd probably be laughing in his boots at Fidel's fall.
But...Then if Che were alive today...
I wonder how different things might have been.

Dave


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

"Infant mortality rate better in Cuba than US"

The US, with it's world's most expensive health care and increasing poverty levels, is well down the worldwide list at number 43rd best (look for 185th worst on the list), while Cuba is 41st best. Incidentally Canada is 23rd best.

CIA World Fact Book


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## William (Jan 5, 2004)

Mr. McNutt, who seems very well informed about events in Cuba, even those that have not happened, does not seem to know--or at any rate, has not mentioned--the reason behind Fidel's move. it ws the recent new measures taken by the Bush government to restrict even further than previously US dollar transfers to and from Cuba. Bush's intention was to prevent Cuban-Americans residing in the US from sending US dollars to Cuba. According to the newspapers (other than, of course, the National Post), Cubans who held US. money in Cuba were given a month to convert their currencies to any other internationally traded currency. Officially, the preferred foreign currency in Cuba is the Euro.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Fidel can't POSSIBLY stop the inevitable tides of history!

Nor can he stop the flow of US dollars that regularly flow from the Miami/Cuban escapees to their poverty stricken Cuban relatives.

But Fidel CAN scoop a ten per cent share from every single American dollar that is now sent there. Which is what he is currently doing!  

I should also note that I have never seen the sort of public dissent for Fidel's completely failed "Revolution" that has been evident on that wasted island in the past few weeks. And it is currently growing by the day!

But Fidel just keeps on throwing the dissenters in jail, en masse. And he's giving them twenty year sentences, no less! For simply disagreeing with him!!

And apologists like CubaMark just keep on saying that he is totally justified in doing this...because they are all apparently "US agents". 







 

What a CROCK!!  

Just tonight, there was a news article saying that a musical group from Cuba (they are one of the only groups that are allowed to actually leave this "socialist paradise" and visit other countries, BTW) is now in the process of defecting from Fidels failed revolution while they are on tour in the USA.

This will be the very largest single group (forty people) who have ever asked for asylum from the hated reign of Fidel Castro at a single time.

But I expect that CubaMark et al will loudly claim that they were all "bought off". Or that they were all "US Agents" or something....

I'm sure that he will find SOME way to explain this latest mass out-migration from the socialist paradise. (He has already tried his very BEST to explain to all of us why so many thousands of Cubans try to escape FROM Cuba each year...and why no one ever tries to escape TO Cuba.)


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

This is a good time to ask Macnutt to back up what he says:



> I should also note that I have never seen the sort of public dissent for Fidel's completely failed "Revolution" that has been evident on that wasted island in the past few weeks.


Ok...website or url? Or have you just been there?



> But Fidel just keeps on throwing the dissenters in jail, en masse. And he's giving them twenty year sentences, no less! For simply disagreeing with him!!


Ok, while I do not deny that Castro does put away political dissenters..let's see whether or not Macnutt can substantiate this claim or his earlier claim that going to any human rights website will bring forth the numbers.



> But I expect that CubaMark et al will loudly claim that they were all "bought off". Or that they were all "US Agents" or something....


I suspect that the lure of the greenback is a much more compelling reason than politics.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Time for an update here...

A friend has just come back from a lengthy stay in Cuba (no...he didn't visit any of the resorts. He spent all that time in the REAL Cuba. Not the carefully crafted fantasy world that Fidel would like everyone to see...the one that the last few leftists in this country loudly proclaim as "reality").

This recently returned friend has just confirmed what I've been hearing from all of my other connections down there. And it's earth shaking stuff...if you are a giant fan of Fidel.

It's also pretty earth shaking stuff if you are...like myself...a giant fan of the Cuban People

Guess what?? After almost fifty years in absolute power..Fidel is now in his last days. Pretty much the whole island is buzzing with news that the old tyrant is about to be eased out. Some are saying that he is already compromised...and that an announcement will be made in a few weeks or so...

It's no big secret that there have been widespread public protests in the past few months. It'ss also no secret that more than ten thousand Cuban citizens have openly signed a legal petition that demands that Fidel finally hold the free elections that he has been promising the Cuban people for more than four decades.

It's also no big secret that a WHOLE BUNCH of people who signed this petition have been thrown in jail by Fidel. For periods that can range up to 25 years!

Just because they don't agree with him, and don't like the direction that he taking HIS (THEIR) country. And are willing to declare this fact in public.

As mentioned earlier..Fidel responded to the legal (under Cuban law) demands of his citizens by throwing a lot of them in jail. And he was roundly criticised for this by almost every nation on earth. He has lost all diplomatic ties with some of his most solid allies in Latin America because of this.

And he has been forced to actually release a few of them.

Then...he committed the worst of all sins in this destitute nation...

He took away the currency that they all rely upon as a rock-solid basis of wealth. He took away the US dollar.

A lot of Cubans find some way to recieve US dollars on a daily or weekly basis. It was the de facto REAL currency for many years before Fidel finally legalised it's use. It's alsmost the only real thing they can believe in, in this bizarre failed socialist fantasy that has gone so horribly wrong.

Now...he has taken that away. He says that Cubans must now turn IN their dollars to HIM. And pay a ten per cent fee to recieve worthless toilet paper in return.

The Cubans are going ballistic about this. As well they should. 

Even the most loyal of the Fidel followers are now openly discussing what will happen after he is removed. This removal of Fidel is being discussed as if it were only weeks or months away right now. This has caused quite a stir amongst the downtrodden and desperately poor citizens of Cuba. 

Pretty much everyone on the whole island is now talking about life after Fidel. For the first time in AGES! Word on the street is that "THIS is the year!!"

Amid the wasted ruins of a completely failed experiment in Marxist/Leninist based societies...there is a brand new hope.

Reminds me of the feeling I had, back in the late eighties, when the whole failed Soviet system was on the brink of total collapse.

Let's hope for the best. The long-suffering Cuban people certainly deserve it. 

They've waited long enough.

[ December 13, 2004, 11:33 PM: Message edited by: MacNutt ]


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Since I wrote that update, a few hours ago, I have had two MORE emails from Cuba telling me that there is a fairly large public protest going on in one of the larger cities on that island. They are calling openly for Fidel to step down and free them from his failed system, once and for all.

This is just the latest in a series of growing public demonstrations against Fidel's iron-fisted rule.

It should be interesting to see how long the old tyrant can stand up to this sort of public dissent.

It'll also be interesting to see if, once he is deposed, he gets the same sort of treatment from the courts as the right-wing Augusto Pinochet.

Pinochet has just been charged with about four (perhaps nine?) deaths and quite a few 
"dissapearences" and torture sessions.

Considering the fact that the left-wing Fidel Castro is directly responsible for thousands of deaths and tens of thousands of torture sessions...and lord only knows how many "dissappearences"...

It's quite possible then, given the facts, that Fidel could go straight from absolute power in Cuba to solitary imprisonment for whatever is left of his lifetime.

Unless he dies first.

Stay tuned. It's just about to get really interesting down there in one of the last two communist countries left on the whole of the planet earth.   

Both of those last two communist countries is failing and teetering badly right now.

My bet is that Cuba will be the first to fall.

But it COULD be North Korea that falls first, and Cuba second.

Again...stay tuned.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

Yes, it's time for Fidel to go. He is the last of the old-style communist dictators.

For all the bad (oppression, Angola, subversions in Latin America) Castro did do a lot of good for the Cuban people. His domestic policies made the Cubans some of the most educated people in Latin America and excellent public health care made them well taken care of. During the height of communism (1960-1990) the Cubans lived pretty good, isolated (aside from the communist sphere), but quite comfortable. Overall, Cuba's standard of living was higher than most Latin American (or Caribbean) countries.

Politically, the treatment of dissidents and opposition, there's no argument. Castro was ruthless.

For the sake of the Cuban people, I hope the next revolution is a "velvet" one, like Czechoslovakia's. Put the old dinosaur out to pasture at a hacienda someplace, but don't try him. Retire all his old cronies and get on with the future. Keep the good parts of his legacy, never forget the bad, keep the "Florida" Cubans out (initially) and create a new democratic Cuba.


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

> Yes, it's time for Fidel to go. He is the last of the old-style communist dictators.


Putin?


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

At least Putin manages to get himself actually _ELECTED_ by the people he lords over. Regularly.

Fidel couldn't POSSIBLY do this. He be chucked out and his system would be abandoned after the very first free vote. Which is probably why he will never allow real elections to take place in Cuba...despite the fact that he promised the Cubans free elections almost four decades ago.

(This is where Cubamark usually steps in and says, with some outrage...."But there ARE elections in Cuba!! And Fidel always WINS them!! With 100% of the vote, 100% of the time!!)
















BTW...the reports of Fidel's imminent departure are still coming hard and fast from sources on that island. The one thing that all of the Cubans keep on commenting about is the fact that most of the local discussions are treating Fidel as if he'd _ALREADY_ left the scene! This has never happened before, to my knowledge.

Interesting times. The old tyrant hasn't been seen in public much, since he fell flat on his mug.

Hmmmm....I wonder.....

Stay tuned.


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

> Just tonight, there was a news article saying that a musical group from Cuba (they are one of the only groups that are allowed to actually leave this "socialist paradise" and visit other countries, BTW) is now in the process of defecting from Fidels failed revolution while they are on tour in the USA.


I'll call BS on this one as a cousin of mine is a concert promoter in Europe and he's had dozens of bands from Cuba playing troughout Europe in the past 15 years.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

Which part are you calling him out on? The suggestion that there are only a few groups allowed outside of Cuba or that there is a group defecting?

There was a group defecting recently so that part is true. Whether or not he's lying about the "few groups allowed" is another story altogether.


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

I was calling him on the few musical groups are allowed to go out of Cuba.


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## sketch (Sep 10, 2004)

I apologize if this is sligthly off topic but I never understood why Cuba is such an enemy to the US. As you can tell, I'm not too knowledgeable in this  but I'm sure there's more to it than just the US trying to promote freedom (like Iraq).


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

MacNutt.... why, o why, do you do this right now? I don't have time to partake, for the zillionth time, in this fantasy world you've created. Xmas is coming, and my thesis is *WAY* overdue. 

To be brief: The Las Vegas group - yeah, intersting bunch, them. Brought together by a German woman who is the group's "director." I don't have the inside scoop as yet... but do stay tuned.

By the way... several members of the troupe chose to *return* to Cuba, rather than stay with their fellow performers. I'm sure Gerry will suggest that they must be Cuban secret agents who were only there to inflitrate the group, because as we all know, no Cuban could possibly want to live in their own country.  

On the topic of Fidel being "ousted," once again we are treated to your complete non-understanding of the Cuban electoral system. I refer the reader to my (many) previous posts (in this and other threads). Suffice it to say, methinks you and your buddies are hearing what people want you to hear... Hell, not even the Miami mafia media CubaNet has suggested what you are alleging, and that's the first place it would appear.

Also:


> It'll also be interesting to see if, once he is deposed, he gets the same sort of treatment from the courts as the right-wing Augusto Pinochet.


Is that the same Augusto Pinochet of whom you spoke so highly in another thread?


> The bottom line here is that a great many leftoids are gunning for Augusto Pinochet these days. He did, after all, take a smallish South American country of no special note...and turn it into the most prosperous and dynamic nation on that whole continent.


If someone in here has a respectibility deficient, I daresay it ain't me...

M.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Many Cuban musicians are _ALLOWED_ to travel outside of Cuba in order to demonstrate their talents to the rest of the world. Dance groups are also _ALLOWED_ to travel abroad. Althletes are also sometimes permitted to leave for short tours. But ALL of these state-sanctioned talent groups are accompanied by Cuban minders who watch their every move.  

Doctors and other top talents are NOT _ALLOWED_ out of the country. Ever.  

Neither are most private Cuban citizens. Which is not too surprising since most Cuban citizens are also restricted while travelling _INSIDE_ their own country!

Most Cubans have grown up in a situation where they must ask persmission to visit other parts of their own land. And they all know that they cannot even THINK About travelling to any other country. Not even a semi-friendly one like Venezuela.

It's simply "forbidden". (which is why so many Cubans risk their lives to escape from Cuba each and every year.)

Think about THAT, for a while.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Mark...almost since I've known you, I've been hearing the excuse "I HAVE to finish my thesis! So I can't really deal with your outrageous accusations about Fidel Castro right now".

Quick question here:

How many years will this thesis actually take to complete? And what sort of degree awaits you when it IS finally complete?

A degree in "socialist studies", perhaps? A treatise on "effective communisim in the early twenty first century" perhaps? (that one would be all fiction...shouldn't take anyone more than a week to toss together. At best)

Just curious about this thesis. Since we keep on hearing about it...year after year.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

The latest news from Cuba has one of that countries very BEST doctors holed up in the Argentinian Embassy in Havana. This doctor has been refused any chance of visiting relatives in Buenos Aires...just as practically ALL Cuban doctors are refused any and all chances of EVER leaving Cuba. For any reason.

This very famous Cuban doctor has also just publicly stated that the Cuban medical system is no good...unless you are a rich Cuban or a tourist or something.

Hardly seems to indicate the "egalitarian society" that SOME of us would like everyone else to belive is the standard on that wasted Caribbean isle.

And I'm getting even more emails about Fidel's imminent departure. Every day. From everyone I know down there. The whole island is buzzing with speculation about this right now.

The last days of Fidel Castro? It seems like it could be.

Stay tuned.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

I strongly suggest that you look up the _latest_ news about Dr. Molina. She was not seeking asylum and she did NOT


> just publicly stated that the Cuban medical system is no good...unless you are a rich Cuban or a tourist or something.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I never said that she was asking for asylum from Fidels crippled system, Ironmac.

But I DID mention that she had commented on how totally awful the Cuban medical system was for the regular Cuban citizens. And how she recognised that it only really worked for rich Cubans and tourists, and the like.

Thanks for posting on this subject. You have just re-affirmed what I ...and a whole LOT of other people have been saying about the Cuban medical system for some time now.  

Much appreciated.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

What are you talking about?

A. She is NOT holed up in the Argentine embassy.

B. She did NOT say that Cuba's medical system was no good. So, she did not affirm the following:



> and a whole LOT of other people have been saying about the Cuban medical system for some time now.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Macnutt, until you have tried to write a quality Master's thesis, or a Doctoral dissertation (I have done both), you might not want to question Mark re the length of time it takes to complete his thesis. I have also supervised 40 completed Master's theses in my 28 years here at MUN. The time it took my grad students to write their thesis ranged from 8 months to nearly four years.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

> The time it took my grad students to write their thesis ranged from 8 months to nearly four years.


An excellent point Dr. G.

I had NO idea it could take that long.

Cheers


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sinc, my grad student that took 3 years and 10 months wrote a 900 page thesis. Most are apx. 200 pages in length. I tire of Macnutt's "jabs" at things academic.


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## Pamela (Feb 20, 2003)

Must be nice. We only get 4 months for an M.Arch. And we have to design an entire building, not just write about it.

Not that I'm judging anyone, but I don't think the thesis is where you should be doing your life's work. You've got 40 years to spend writing...the thesis better not be the best thing you ever do, so why take such a long time doing it?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Pamela, I try to move my students along as quickly as possible, but some put off whole chapters for months on end. It is frustrating, but these students are adults and have their own timelines.

My own Master's thesis took seven months to research and write, while my Ph.D. dissertation took a little over one year.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Pamela many people ARE doing work while writing their thesis.
Time is often NOT of the essence in good work for the academic realm.

••••••••••

The "uninhabited forest" apparently is ALSO unihabited by the academic muse.....wonder why.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

PhDs in biological research can take 7-8 years. One of my students just completed after 8 years although he spent the last two years doing a fellowship in another lab while he wrote (so he could earn morte money to pay back loans). He published over 10 papers. During this time he lived on a student stipend (now around $22,000) and had to pay tuition. Different professions have different requirements. In science, a PhD is not a qualification in the practical sense. You can have excellent PhDs and crappy PhDs. It's ALL about quality.

I wish some people would take the time to learn how to conduct research to back up their "claims".


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

_how to conduct research to back up their "claims"._

Course requirement: *thought, manifested intelligence, writing skills oh yeah.....staying sober*.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Jim, add to the doctoral dissertation course work. At the University of Georgia, I had to take 27 grad courses over three years (UGA was on a trimester system), attend doctoral seminars for six of these nine trimesters, pass 5 preliminary exams, write and defend a proposal, research and then write a dissertation, which also had to be defended. Actually, the hardest part for me was passing the three required stats courses.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

> oh yeah.....staying sober


Attacking the Person (argumentum ad hominem)
Definition:
The person presenting an argument is attacked instead of the
argument itself. This takes many forms. For example, the
person's character, nationality or religion may be attacked.
Alternatively, it may be pointed out that a person stands to
gain from a favourable outcome. Or, finally, a person may be
attacked by association, or by the company he keeps.

There are three major forms of Attacking the Person:
(1) ad hominem (abusive): instead of attacking an assertion,
the argument attacks the person who made the assertion.
(2) ad hominem (circumstantial): instead of attacking an
assertion the author points to the relationship between the
person making the assertion and the person's circumstances.
(3) ad hominem (tu quoque): this form of attack on the
person notes that a person does not practise what he
preaches.

Examples:
" oh yeah.....staying sober"

Cheers


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Fine digression about the length of time it may or may not take normal human beings to complete a thesis. I congratulate you all for enlightening me on this subject.

Now...back to the subject of this thread....


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

*Now...back to the subject of this thread....*

Doth mine eyes deceive me? MacNutt intends to steer a thread back onto course?


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Yes, PosterBoy...I am trying to steer this thread back onto it's original subject because I think it's a rather important one.

Snap quiz here PB...

-How many threads has MacNutt tried to steer BACK onto their original axis in the past month or two? One? Three? More than three? I await your carefully considered answer here. (Some others might be listening in, as well...so do try to count carefully)

Okay...on to the failing days of Fidel. And a quick take on how this four decade dictatorship is now finally coming to an end.


Ever since he did his big public face-splat a month or two ago...Fidel has been only seen on rare occasions. And has been confined to a wheelchair the whole time.

This may only be symbolic...but it carries heavy weight with so many Cubans who are hoping and praying for a change. And who are tired of waiting for this change.

So...lets take stock of the situation as in now stands. Cuba, on the brink of 2005, is NOT the Cuba of a decade ago. Or even the Cuba of a few short years ago.

Right now, Fidel is facing the following challenges while trying to keep his shaky and wasted "revolution" from total collapse:

-Many (most) of his most staunch long-term allies in Latin America have now turned their backs on him...and even closed up their embassies and severed all diplomatic ties. Venezuela under Hugo Chavez is still with him..but Chavez himself is under a deathwatch and is wildly unpopular with his own Venezuelan citizens. Neither leader is expected to last much longer.

-The average Cuban finds SOME way to obtain American dollars. Both to buy the necessities (that are not provided by Fidel) from the thriving black market...and as a hedge against a futurre that will come once Fidel is finally gone. The completely worthless Cuban Peso will be nothing but paper when the Big Change finally arrives. American dollars, on the other hand, will actually still have real buying power.

But, since this November, Fidel has decreed that the US dollar is now not a legal currency in Cuba. And must be redeemed for worthless Pesos while paying a ten per cent premium on the exchange! Fidel has just reduced the already horridly impoverished Cuban people's buying power by ten per cent!

Think they aren't feeling this? Think they aren't just a little pissed off about it?

And...the huge Cuban black market STILL thrives. It also accepts ONLY American dollars. Even now. Think about that for a moment.

The Cuban economy now has two distinct currencies, once again (just as it did for so many years before Fidel finally gave in and legalised the US dollar). There is one currency that has actual value attached to it...and is good anywhere in the world. And there is the Cuban Peso...which only has value because Fidel SAYS it does. And only for now.

Which one would YOU be hoarding? Which one would YOU be more interested in, if you were a Cuban?

-Fidel has been roundly criticised in the past year or two for throwing so very many of his fellow Cubans into jail simply because they disagree with the shoddy way he is running Cuba. Even human rights groups like Amnesty International have denounced the old tyrant for his latest slap down on anyone who is even slightly critical of his failing government...and who is asking for a free vote under current Cuban law. A law that was written by Fidel, himself BTW!

A petition that was completely legal under the current Cuban Constitution was circulated throughout the island...and quickly gained more than ten thousand names. All demanding free elections for the very first time in four decades. Legally.

But Fidel didn't follow the rules he had written himself...instead he threw the writers of this petition...and some of the most vocal supporters of it...into jail for twenty years or more. Just for daring to question his total control over their homeland.   

And claimed that they "Were ALL being paid by the Americans to do this!!"

I guess that the ten thousand Cuban citizens who bravely committed their names and addresses to this petition were ALSO being "paid by the Americans" to do so...eh?

What a crock.

-Finally...the much-vaunted Cuban medical system is seriously breaking down right now. Mostly due to lack of available funding to keep it running. They have brand new German made X-ray machines...but no X-ray film. They have some modern surgical instruments...but they regularly re-use hypodermic needles until they are too dull to penetrate human skin. Then they re-sharpen them. There is NO air conditioning in these tropical hospitals. And anasthetics are a rarity, as well. Many surgeries are performed with six strong orderlies holding down the unfortunate patient...until they pass out from extreme pain. Many hospitals have no hot water. Some have no electricity.

None of this should come as a surprise, really...much of the old Soviet Union's health care system was the same way, just before the final collapse. Despite the glowing accounts of the old Soviet system by all of the apologists and fans of hard line socialism in this country. Who are now...oddly enough...strangely silent on this subject, BTW.

This is a matter of historical fact.

All of this has just scratched the surface of what is driving the deep discontent in Cuba right now. I haven't even mentioned the fact the Fidel has been busy shutting down many of the budding private enterprises that were beginning to give some people hope on that destitute island.

There's more.. LOTS more.

And NONE of it looks good for a continuation of Fidels failed "revolution".

This certainly seems to be the last days for the old tyrant. Freedom for trhe Cuban people is just around the corner.

Like I said before...stay tuned. 

[ December 19, 2004, 01:50 AM: Message edited by: MacNutt ]


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

I'm sorry, did I hit a nerve there?

I don't know how many threads you have tried to steer back towards their original course, neither do I know exactly how many you have hijacked for your own purposes.

If you don't like having your own threads moved in other directions, perhaps you should consider that each time you push someone else's off topic?


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I am a thread hijacker, PB. No doubt about it. I freely admit this.

But I am certainly not the only one.

And you, sir, are a major nitpicker. Committed to worrying away at the tiny details of a post while sometimes loosing sight of why those details were originally presented at this forum.

I am hereby telling you that this particular subject is seriously important to me...and I am also hereby challenging you to use you singular skills to count how many threads I have tried to steer back on track in the past few months. If anyone can count off the exact number of anything around here...and analyse it to the nth degree, it's you.

Are you up for it?


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Meanwhile...

Back to the last days of Fidels failed revolution. And his imminent removal from power in Cuba.

Or not. 

Please feel free to post your comments. I'd be very interested in hearing them. Might make for a lively debate. A timely one, as well.

To say the least.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

It's funny MacNutt, when I point out obvious flaws in the arguments of, say Michael Moore or MacDoc, then you seem to hold my analytical skill in high regard. When I point out obvious flaws in your arguments, I am a nitpicker.

Which is it already? Any why do you feel the need to resort to name calling?


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Oh stop it Posterboy. It's totally unfair to hold an unbiased opinion based on facts rather than mantra. You're spoiling MacNutt's fun (again). He'll be calling you a fair-weather friend next










Happy Holidays......


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

"I point out obvious flaws in the arguments of say Michael Moore or MacDoc" you never learn not to snipe do you PB.  

Grow up sometime.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

No-one will be happier to see this %^&*U thesis finished than will I.... it's taken up far too much of my life. When it's finally in the hands of the Registrar, MacNutt, you'll likely hear the cheers all the way out thre on the west coast...

As for your continuing efforts to reshape reality according to your SSIMS mandate...

Dr. Molina update NOTE that the Guardian's headline for the article is incorrect, in that it says she "returns" from Argentina, when in fact she never left Cuba, unless you want to get technical in that the grounds of the Embassy are considered sovereign soil of the Embassy in question.

And:


> Ever since he did his big public face-splat a month or two ago...Fidel has been only seen on rare occasions. And has been confined to a wheelchair the whole time.


Really? What is "rare" to you? I've seen lots of coverage of Fidel's public appearances, but of course, not in any of the North American papers (they only cover the things like his broken knee & arm, you know, "real" news *gag*). The following photo should take care of both the "rare" and the "wheelchair" allegations:








(Date: December 14th, 2004. Chavez visits Havana)

Besides, what's wrong with him being in a wheelchair? He *is* recovering from the aforementioned knee injury... doesn't Fidel deserve time to convalesce? 


> Many (most) of his most staunch long-term allies in Latin America have now turned their backs on him...and even closed up their embassies and severed all diplomatic ties.


??? What are you reading, _National Review_ for all your "news" needs? The reality is exactly the opposite of what you say: Argentina, Chile and Uruguay are some of the more recent South American countries that have ousted their U.S.-friendly presidents, and are back on friendly terms with Cuba... and this was with no begging or pleading on Castro's part... these countries have finally, rightly, recognized that Cuba was being unfairly maligned and excluded, due to U.S. pressure.



> Fidel has decreed that the US dollar is now not a legal currency in Cuba. And must be redeemed for worthless Pesos while paying a ten per cent premium on the exchange! Fidel has just reduced the already horridly impoverished Cuban people's buying power by ten per cent!


We've been over this. The Pesos that Cubans exchange U.S. dollars for are far from worthless - they are AT PAR with the current U.S. dollar value. These are the same Convertible Pesos that tourists use. You are confusing those readers who are not so well informed of Cuban matters by implying that the Cubans exchanged their U.S. dollars for _Moneda Nacional_ the original Peso, which currently trades at about 27-to-1 (far better, BTW, than the Jamaican dollar, which trades at around 40-to-1). Those Cubans who took advantage of the grace period (three weeks) to exchange their U.S. dollars for Convertible Pesos paid *NO* 10% surcharge. Those who for whatever reason did not do so, will need to pay that 10% surcharge from this point forward. The intent is to have those outside of Cuba who provide remittances to family members convert their U.S. dollars first to the Euro or Canadian dollar, both of which can be exchanged with NO SURCHARGE. Thus, the average Cuban is no worse off than before, and the burden, if any, of converting the currency lies with those outside the island who can afford to do so.



> Fidel has been roundly criticised in the past year or two for throwing so very many of his fellow Cubans into jail simply because they disagree with the shoddy way he is running Cuba.


*Untrue*. Those who were arrested, tried and convicted in open court and within the law of the land. The "dissidents" in question were openly collaborating with the United States government, were receiving cash and other gifts as payment for their activism against the Cuban government. This is called sedition / treason, and there are laws on the books in both the U.S. and Canada which call for equally harsh (or worse) punishments. This is all a matter of public record - no matter how much you wish to talk about these 'honorable dissidents' the truth remains: they were / are agents of the U.S. government, a hostile foreign power, and Cuba is well within its rights - indeed, is obligated to protect its citizens by - incarcerating them.


> A petition that was completely legal under the current Cuban Constitution was circulated throughout the island...and quickly gained more than ten thousand names. All demanding free elections for the very first time in four decades. Legally.


You are referring to the "Varela Project." If you understood the law in question, it does not provide for the automatic initiation of "free" (hah!) elections - the law simply requires that the National Assembly (a body elected by the people) consider the petition, nothing more. They did, the rejected the call for U.S.-style "free" elections, and that's the end of it. It was a politically-motivated (and foreign-motivated, at that) attempt to disrupt the Cuban government, and it failed. Tough noogies.

The condition of the hospitals and medical system is not good, it's true. But you refuse, despite overwhelming evidence, countless studies by U.S., European and other agencies, that the U.S. Economic Blockade of Cuba is directly to blame. What can we do when you refuse to recognize reality, and continue to blame "Fidel" for everything. Seriously!

And the current spat at the U.S. Interests' Section in Havana is a hoot. The U.S. top "diplomat" in Havana, James Cason, had a big Xmas light display put up that included a huge "75", referring to those American surrogates who were jailed as mentioned previously. IN response, Cuba put up this fabulous billboard, exposing the hypocrisy of the U.S. calling for the observance of "human rights":










Now... leave me alone for a few days, willya? It's Christmas and I have a lot of work to do.

M.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Kudos, Mark, on the near completion of your thesis. I know the feeling well. Feliz Navidad. mi amigo bueno.


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

My wife is on the last bend before the last straight of her PhD...

Can someone please pay academics better so that they stop being so petty to each other and to their post-grad students?  

One of my friends argues that if a PhD thesis had to be done in a private sector context (ie with a proper budget and deadline), the research and writeup would all be over in 6 months. I can't say I have seen evidence to the contrary...  

A lot of 'we suffered so shall you' mentality around, at least at her university... (London School of Economics)


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

In the field I'm in, you can do a PhD in a pharmaceutical company. Guess what? There is no difference to the length of time to complete. It's not about money and speed but quality and intellectual discovery. It's training and gaining experience and learning from misakes. You can quickly skim the basic rules of art or music but that does not make you an artist or musician.

Heck by that argument, we should privatize our schools and graduate kids at 8. There are private schools and private universities.... I'll leave you to do the math.









As for bitterness, it is not a question of putting students through an assault course simply because that's what you had to do. Research is competitive. Get scooped and you have nothing. Plenty of incentive there to work hard and fast. On the otherhand, publish something that is erroneous and you'll pay dearly (rightly so).

Perhaps economics is different but health sciences research is not about prolonging the suffering.....


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

*you never learn not to snipe do you PB.*

MacDoc,

I was not sniping at you, you just think I was. When were you planning to stop reading so much hostility into my posts? I've been asking for a while, you've yet to answer.


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

Please recognize the seasonal change and post here.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Fer GOSSHAKES!  

I am regularly referred to as the great derailer of threads here...but, it seems that NO ONE on this forum even wants to TRY to deal with the last days of Fidel. Or TRY to deal with the flurry of information that is coming out of that last wasted bastion of Marxism to indicate that these ARE, in fact, the very last days of Fidel Castro...

Instead, some of us seem to be all too willing to ignore simple reality and turn our backs on this historic moment. While actively discussing...wait for it....

HOW LONG AND HOW HARD IT IS TO WRITE A FREAKING THESIS!!!

A thesis on a subject that we STILL don't even know about, no less!!   

While Cuba is on the brink of a major political convulsion into a modern market-driven society...while the longest serving tyrant on the whole planet is in his last dying days of absolute power...

We are, collectively, derailing this thread and talking about how hard it is to actually obtain a degree in "Advanced Basket Weaving". Or "Modern Socilaist Thinking" (an oxymoron). Or something of the like.









Truly, ehmac is the last refuge of the truly bizarre. And of the truly disconnected.









The poor destitute Cuban people are looking at you and shaking their heads in wonder at your indifference. So is much of the rest of the thinking world.

Trust me on this.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

MacNutt said:


> Okay...on to the failing days of Fidel. And a quick take on how this four decade dictatorship is now finally coming to an end.
> 
> 
> Ever since he did his big public face-splat a month or two ago...Fidel has been only seen on rare occasions. And has been confined to a wheelchair the whole time.
> ...



News update. The Associated Press reported in late December that:



> Cuban leader Fidel Castro has walked in public today for the first time since he fell and broke his kneecap two months ago.
> Castro, who's 78, appeared on the arm of a schoolgirl at a yearend meeting of the National Assembly in Havana. Lawmakers gave him a standing ovation.
> 
> 
> ...


I'm surprised that someone who purportedly keeps very close ties to the island would not be aware of this...


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I'm quite awate of it.

I'm also quite aware of the unprecedented fact that almost everyone I know on that island has been discussing Fidel in the past tense for some time now. They act as if he is already pretty much out of power...despite the fact that he is still present.

This has never happened before, as far as I know. It's as if they have already written him off and are deciding what to do next. His retirement or removal may just be an afterthought. Not even planned, more like a simple housecleaning before the guests show up.

The big change may have happened when he was convalescing from his face splat. I won't know the whole story until my next visit. 

But the Cubans are acting like he is already gone. At least online.

And I've certainly never heard anything like that before.

Which is why I brought it up.

The Big Changes in the Soviet Union sometimes started like this. The leader himself was often the last to know. :yikes:


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

*Derailing threads eh?*

We learn from the master. How does it feel?

While you're busy getting this one back on track you have less time to damage others...   

Perhaps the pharma industry is not the best placed to discuss PhDs: one of the cosiest and slowest industries around, despite the headlines...

PhDs CAN be done differently: the average UK PhD is 3.5 years and often is done straight after a degree, no masters involved. I have not heard that British PhDs were significantly weaker than their overseas colleagues. I am just completing a book; it took me about 3 months evening/weekends. Obviously, it is not nearly as tightly researched and cross checked as academic work; but the point I am making is that there is a lot of time wasted in the academic process. For instance, if thesis directors worked to private times scales, students would get meetings in hours not weeks, and they would ensure that someone on their team has actually read the materials...


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Unfortunately, the pharmaceutical supply situation under Fidel Castro has steadily deteriorated in the past five years...despite the relaxing of the US embargo in this area. Fidels failed system simply doesn't have enough money to buy the necessary drugs from outside Cuba. And they can't POSSIBLY produce any but a small number themselves. Mostly in carefully focused areas.

For instance...there is often no anaesthetic for surgical procedures. Imagine having a kidney removed without ANY sort of pain relief during the operation. The patient is usually wide awake (and being held down by several orderlies) until they lose conciousness from the blinding pain.

My ex-girlfriend, the Cuban doctor, told me all about this. She said it was common. And no one ever gets freezing for a dental procedure in Cuba. Not even the rich. I know this for a fact.

Starvation and hopelessness and pain are the what characterises the final days of Fidels dying "revolution".

No wonder he and his totally failed system are on the way out.

(how's THAT for re-railing a thread, Moscool?) :heybaby:


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Salt Spring Island Disinformation Agency (SSIDA) stikes again*

Oh, Gerry. Winter must be tough without the bikes to keep you busy. Nothing to do but sit there and conjour up the most ridiculous of fantasies....


> Unfortunately, the pharmaceutical supply situation under Fidel Castro has steadily deteriorated in the past five years...despite the relaxing of the US embargo in this area.


That's at odds with everyone else's analysis. Cuba has, in the past decade, become a pharmaceutical powerhouse in Latin America and the rest of the Third World. Even Wired is talking about it. (point form for quick read) Get our nose out of the National Review, willya? An excellent source of English-language medical news on Cuba comes from MEDICC, an organization that arranges for internships in the Cuban public health care system for U.S. / Canadian / European / etc. medical students who want to understand the amazing things that can be done with a government that considers the health of its citizens a Human Right.


> Fidels failed system simply doesn't have enough money to buy the necessary drugs from outside Cuba. And they can't POSSIBLY produce any but a small number themselves. Mostly in carefully focused areas.


Actually, Cuba produces 80% of the drugs used in the country, internally: IPS News Service As for the overall situation of Cuban health, I encourage you to read the Pan American Health Organization's (PAHO) report on health care in the Americas, which has an excellent overview of the Cuban situation, with statistics and qualitative summaries. 


> For instance...there is often no anaesthetic for surgical procedures. Imagine having a kidney removed without ANY sort of pain relief during the operation. The patient is usually wide awake (and being held down by several orderlies) until they lose conciousness from the blinding pain.


I have no doubt this was true in the worst years of the economic crisis (mid-1990s). Whether it's still a fact of life is another question (You'll forgive me for being skeptical of your information sources, which have proven in these fora to be akin to Bush's WMD evidence). Let us remember that regardless of Cuba's phenomenal advances in preventative health care (as opposed to the profit-oriented, _curative_ system we practice in North America), it remains a "developing" country. How many people throughout Latin America are dying because they can't afford health care? How many children are dying because they haven't been vaccinated against common diseases? 

_Cuba’s National Immunization Program now effectively protects Cuban children from 13 diseases: polio, typhoid, tetanus, diphtheria, pertussis, rubella, measles, mumps, tuberculosis, hepatitis B, haemophilus influenza B, meningitis B, and meningitis C. (The meningitis B vaccine was developed in Cuba, and is considered the world’s first effective vaccine against this child-killer disease.)_ Source: MEDICC

Cuba provides medications and vaccines to other Third World nations *at cost*, selling to wealthy countries for-profit. And why do "rich" countries need to buy Cuban medications? Because Cuba makes the *only* vaccines for some diseases - things even the U.S. doesn't have. And we're not talking about some Viagra knockoff, we're talking meningitis, dengue, etc. And then there are the things to come, like Cuba's Lung Cancer vaccine. As someone who has lost two close relatives to lung cancer, I can appreciate the significance.

Cuba also has thousands of medical teams working around the world, helping countries provide health care to citizens in South Africa, Venezuela, Guatemala, etc. Beyond that, it provides poor youth from those countries the opportunity to become doctors though a scholarship programme in Cuba's Latin American School of Medicine. FREE. Here's one Guatemalan who's life is changing because of Cuba's generosity.



> Starvation and hopelessness and pain are the what characterises the final days of Fidels dying "revolution".


Sigh. Same old "say it often enough, and it will be counted as truth," eh, MacNutt? I think I proposed a wager awhile back, that you declined to pick up on.... Hmmmmmm.

M.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

MacNutt said:


> But the Cubans are acting like he is already gone. At least online.


I thought you said that Cubans didn't have access to the internet, because of Fidel. Which is it already?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"Cuba según Macnutt, y El mundo según Macnutt". CubaMark, I am sending you the latest edition of Macnutt's famous book which has now been translated into Spanish. Pax, mi amigo.


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

Must say, quite an elegant rethread Gerry...

Having said that, your quotes were even more empty than usual. Reminds me of the old Sundy Sport, you know: 

- U-Boat found on the moon
- Prince Charles Eats slugs
etc.

BTW:

- Fidel actually bearded woman escaped from Barnum's 
- Cuban cigars laced with crack to bring down world capitalism
- Giant cache of pre-revolution rum found, proceeds to feed whole island for 10 years...

Did I forget any?


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Go ahead and make fun all you want. Crack jokes at the expense of the downtrodden Cuban people if you'd like. They can't fight back or even reply, because most of them don't have telephone service...and very few can even dream of having their own computer. Access to the internet was illegal a few short years ago, and the vast majority of Cubans will never have any sort of net connection until the day they die. Heck...most of them don't even have colour TV's at this point!

So it's a safe target, really. A soft target. Easy to hit, from up here in the comfortable and wealthy north.

Shame on you. ALL of you. You disgust me


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Where do I start?

With CubaMark's spoon-fed government data. That's a good place.

Mark...you have NO IDEA! It's as simple as that. No concept of what is really going on in that wasted country!

If you DID...then you might understand that MOST of the doctors in Cuba are constantly struggling with ongoing shortages of pretty much EVERYTHING!! Especially the pharmaceutical drugs that the Fidel-controlled governement has told you are in rather good supply.

They are NOT!!

They have virtually NOTHING! Everything is in short supply...and has been for many decades. And it's not getting any better! In fact...it's getting worse.

Consider this:

If you are in a car accident in a major city in Cuba at night (quite probable...because many of the cars don't have headlights or taillights and the streets are quite crowded at night)...then you may be wheeled into a Cuban hospital for an emergency operation that MIGHT save your life.

IF they have sterile instruments that night. IF they actually have any sort of anasthetic that particular night. IF anyone is actually on DUTY that particular night.

After the emergency operation...IF it is actually successful...you will be treated to a hospital bed that has a mattress that is only about an inch thick. You will also find yourself in a tropical hospital that has NO air conditioning.

And...if you need any sort of injection to stave off some sort of infection...then you will probably be stuck with a needle that has already been used some fifty or more times before. If you are lucky.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I know all of this because, unlike our CubaMark...I actually lived and worked in Cuba for many years. 

And I was engaged to a Cuban lady doctor for much of that time. I saw what I have described up close and personal.

I don't have to rely on false Cuban government data to prop up my arguments. I have the real thing instead.

And it's pretty scary.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*perspective or ideology?*

...whereas I only have travelled to Cuba consistently for over a decade, have stepped foot on a Cuban beach a number of times corresponding to the fingers on my right hand, have extensively researched (using my own, and others, and peer-reviewed, and internationally-accepted data), have taught, have shepherded a couple of dozen students, have travelled the island from San Luis in Pinar del Río to Moa in Guantánamo provinces including the Sierra Maestra and points in-between, lived four-months in a cockroach-friendly apartment in a Cuban (not tourist) apartment block, walked almost an hour to and from work daily, spent time in the homes of friends and colleagues, where rum and discussions flowed freely, etc. etc. ad infinitum.

My own direct personal observations of Cuba were last made as the instructor on a university study tour in 2002. I'm overdue for a return. When were you last on <i>la isla terrible</i>, MacNutt?

The horrible facts of life you relate regarding Cuba are entirely probable - it is, after all, a <i>developing</i> country, <i>economically blockaded</i> by the U.S., and struggling to maintain a social safety net that - in all its disrepair and underperformance - still puts the majority of social safety nets in Latin America to shame.... which is why Cuban doctors are working throughout Latin America to help those nations get their **** together... something very difficult for them to do, when they are stuck paying back unreasonable foreign debt to northern banks, and abiding by IMF-imposed austerity programmes which means they can't afford to pay their own doctors to do it.

And whereas you seem to think that any data presented in defence of the efforts of the Cuban government must come from the government, I encourage you to review the information presented. The PAHO - that is, the Pan-American Health Organization - is not a Cuban body... in fact, it is based in Washington, D.C. PAHO is not the only body which has - for DECADES - recognized Cuba's achievements in securing public health, not only through curative measures (which you have decided to emphasize as the only thing of importance), but through <i>preventative</i> measures, such as mass-immunization, public health education, sanitary inspection, extensive medical personell presence in the community, etc.

I just don't know what it is about the right-wingers, who are unable to form the thought-processes that might actually recognize that Cuba has been doing something right. But then, even when Cuba is doing something right, it's probably wrong, right?  

Believe what you want to believe, Gerry. My conscience is clear.

M.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

No question that you have been intimately involved with the politics and the daily realities of this magic isle, CubaMark. No question about this at all.

And I didn't mean to belittle or minimise your contributions. This was not my intent at all. My most humble apologies if this was your impression from my last few posts.

The point I was trying to make is this:

Some people who are totally committed to a certain ideal (or ideology) might sometimes be...shall we say...a tad blind to the actual realities of some political systems. Especially in a place like Cuba. Which, many might point out, is almost the last remaining example of the now dead socialist ideal that was so popular during the sixties and seventies. Especially with young well educated and well off young university types here in the affluent west.

For almost as long as I have been alive, a Che Guevara T-shirt was part of the standard wardrobe for anyone who was feeling a bit rebellious during their secondary education years. Along with a few piercings and a slightly wild haircut. (makes the equally rebellious college babes melt like butter!)

I wear a Che Guevara T-shirt myself sometimes. So does my ******* buddy "Jack the Gunfreak". We do this for different reasons. Ones that have a lot to do with irony and dark humor. Plus...some of the more radical babes on this greenie island simply melt when they see Che in all his glory. (hey...whatever works) 

But...I digress... 

Bottom line here?

The whole Cuban system is failing badly. Anyone who has ever spent any time there knows this without taking any time to even think about it. It's painfully obvious.

Is this...as Fidel and his apologists loudly proclaim...simply a result of "The US Embargo?"

(Despite the fact that Cuba can easily get pretty much whatever it wants through the 150+ countries who are NOT a part of "The Embargo"?)

IF they could actually afford to BUY the stuff. Which they can't.

Which puts them into the "emerging nations" category as Mark has so aptly pointed out. Too bad that most of the other "emerging nations" (outside of Haiti) are rapidly leaving poor Cuba in their collective dust. This former paradise of the caribbean...which used to be one of the richest countries in all of Latin America...is now one of the absolute POOREST in the whole hemisphere.

And getting poorer every single day.

The shortages continue, the hospitals go without, the doctors subsist on one dollar per day, the canefields and sugar factories fall into disrepair, buildings and what is left of the remaining infrastructure continue to crumble, the people slowly starve to death, and hope for the future fades. It simply isn't getting any better. In fact...it's just getting worse.

Which MIGHT be why so many Cubans go to great lengths to escape from this "workers paradise" every single year. Might also explain why Fidel keeps throwing any and all persons who question his absolute rule into jail for two decade sentences in the fetid Cuban prisons. He can't afford any sort of public disssention at this point. There might just be a cascade effect if he let it get out of hand, after all.

Gee...do ya THINK???

Wake up, Mark. This whole silly mess is about to collapse. Just as aall of the other far left Marxist systems have before it. Some hung on for 75 years before they died a sudden death. Cuba is at the forty five year point in it's flirtation with this particular political dead end. And it can't last much longer at this rate.

And a whole LOT of people seem to think that this year will be it's very last. Many think that a huge and sweeping change is just around the corner for the desperate and poverty stricken masses in Cuba. A giant shift in leadership and a total directional change is only a few weeks or months away.

Me included.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

macnutt mused;


> I know all of this because, unlike our CubaMark...I actually lived and worked in Cuba for many years.


seems pretty clear to me what your intent was macnutt
then again, i have not lived or visited Cuba


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Might be a good time to resolve this situation, Michael.  

You'd love it there. The people are incredibly friendly and very civilised. Many of the beaches outside of the resort areas are completely deserted (Cubans are somewhat restricted when travelling in their own country. Canadians can go wherever they please)

Plus...thirty dollars is what a doctor makes in a month. You will have two or three months doctor's salary in your pocket, at any given time. This is bigtime buying power in the Cuban reference. Think about what that might allow you to do in this fantasyland tropical island that is caught in a bizarre time warp. The mind absolutely boggles.

Trust me on this.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

*Cuba to ban smoking in public places*

http://author.voanews.com/english/2005-01-19-voa37.cfm

Cuba Bans Smoking in Public Venues By VOA News 
19 January 2005

Cuba has decided to ban smoking in many public places beginning next month.

Officials say the smoking ban, which will start the first week of February, will apply to buses, theaters, sports arenas and indoor restaurants, except designated areas. Cigarette machines will also be removed.

The French news agency, AFP, reports that under the new rules tobacco products will be sold only to people over 16 years of age. There is currently no age minimum.

The news agency reports the government has taken the measures for health reasons and to respect the rights of non-smokers. 

Some information for this report provided by AP.

UPDATE: Changes to take place on Feb. 7 - CanWest Global News


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I can't actually recall ever seeing any cigarette machines in any part of Cuba.

But...then again...I have never even spent five minutes at any of the resorts.

Regular Cubans couldn't use cigarette machines. That would require actual money. They don't have any. ZERO. I'm not kidding. None, nada.

And most regular Cubans that I've met don't smoke anyway. Pretty much NONE of them smoke cigars. Cigarettes are only 50 cents a pack, but they are still outside the economoc reach of most average Cubans.

And THIS is in the country where tobbacco originated, BTW. They even feature the flowering tobaccco plant on some of their money.

I bet that any Canadian could smoke pretty much anything pretty much anywhere in Cuba. Despite any new rules to the contrary.


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## bopeep (Jun 7, 2004)

MacNutt said:


> Might be a good time to resolve this situation, Michael.
> 
> You'd love it there. The people are incredibly friendly and very civilised. Many of the beaches outside of the resort areas are completely deserted (Cubans are somewhat restricted when travelling in their own country. Canadians can go wherever they please)


I have visited Cuba once in my life. I stayed at a lovely resort. Here's what I observed. There were armed guards at the edge of our beach. We were told that it was to keep the nationals from bothering us. [bothering = trying to sell us things]. We were 'allowed' to leave the resort by any means we chose. When we were off the resort we met many people. The gave us fresh fruit and invited us to eat meals with them. All they wanted in return was for us to mail letters for them when we got back to Canada. Letters asking for financial support - even $10. 

The employees on the resort were starving. A fellow guest at the resort smuggled sandwiches to the various nationals, and was told to stop fiving the food to these people. 

I am not familiar with the politics etc of the region, and I must admit that my visit there was some years ago, but the sight of an ox pulling a 1950's tuck, eating mangos and bananas ripened on the tree- trying to carry handfuls of both back to the resort on a bicycle, the please tojust mail those letters, are all things that stay with me to this day. 

I have to agree with MacNutt. The people I met were very friendly and kind and surprisingly giving. 

Cheers
Bo


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Resorts...*

BoPeep,

Would that visit have been in the mid-to-late 1990s?

It's truly amazing that Cuba was able to dig itself out of the economic disaster that followed the collapse of their trading ties with the former Soviet Bloc countries. Despite losing some 80% of their foreign trade ties, Cuba diversified and rebuilt. I wonder how Canada would fare, should something like that ever happen here...

M


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

MacNutt said:


> I can't actually recall ever seeing any cigarette machines in any part of Cuba.
> 
> But...then again...I have never even spent five minutes at any of the resorts.
> 
> ...


From The Toronto Star



> According to government statistics, four of every 10 Cubans smoke, and 30 per cent of the 15,000 deaths from preventable cancers each year can be linked to smoking.


That's allot of Cubans smoking.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*The price of ciggies in Cuba*

MacNutt wrote:


> And most regular Cubans that I've met don't smoke anyway. Pretty much NONE of them smoke cigars. Cigarettes are only 50 cents a pack, but they are still outside the economoc reach of most average Cubans.


The reality is:


> <i>Every Cuban over 50 is entitled to three packets of cigarettes a month, at approximately seven US cents a packet.</i><br><div align="right"><small>
> Source: BBC News</small></div>


MacNutt says 50, the BBC says 7. Given that discrepancy, would everyone please review previous financial / other numerical "data" provided by the Salt Spring Islands Disinformation Service (SSIDS) and reduce by 6/7ths.

M.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I'm just going by what I have personally seen in my many years of working and living in Cuba.

The last totally Cuban rig crew I worked with...about ten out of fifty of them smoked cigs. Almost NONE of them had ever seen real cuban cigars until we showed them the ones that we had bought.

These were CUBANS, by the way...Cuban cigarettes were barely affordable for them. Cuban cigars were WAAAYYYY out of their economic league.

On the average Canadian rig crew, about thirty or forty per cent smoke some form of tobacco. Or more. Sometimes it's eight out of ten.

But the Cubans are almost ignorant of their countries most famous export. (The tobacco plant is actually on their money, BTW!)

Good thing? Maybe.

But...it's too bad that they don't have any choice in this at all. Just as in so very many things.

Fidel makes all of the decisions. The Cubans have to go along with them or else face two decades of jail time for disagreeing with him.

No wonder twenty thousand Cubans try to escape from Cuba every single year.

It's a wonder that more Cubans don't attempt to flee from this wasted system! (it was 300 thousand during the early eighties. Some sources say that it is the same number leaving, these days)

Some "workers paradise". Bah!


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

MacNutt said:



> I'm just going by what I have personally seen in my many years of working and living in Cuba.
> 
> The last totally Cuban rig crew I worked with...about ten out of fifty of them smoked cigs. Almost NONE of them had ever seen real cuban cigars until we showed them the ones that we had bought.
> 
> ...


A. Given that cigars have been smoked by the inhabitants of the area ever since recorded history

http://www.cubaheritage.com/subs.asp?sID=213&cID=13

I strongly doubt that Cubans have no idea about their most famous export. You sure that you actually bought "real cuban cigars" and not some sort of tourist fakes?

B. BTW, does anyone know what Canada's most famous export is? Come on...let's give this one a shot..


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*exports*

Ummm...

<b>William Shatner</b>?<br>









or

<b>Pamela Anderson</b>?<br>











M


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Celine Dion? The dude who presents Jeopardy (whatever his name is)? Jim Carey? Tom Brokaw? Trees? Mad cows? Common sense? C'mon give us a hint....


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I never ever saw a Cuban actually smoking a Cuban cigar. Not in all of the time I was living there. Not EVER!

Does this tell you something? It might...if you toss off the tired old ideology and just go for the facts.

Kind of like NEVER ever seeing any Canadian ever playing hockey. No matter where you went in Canada. Not EVER!


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I never ever recall seeing even one single Cuban who was wearing a beard like Che or Fidel, either. Not even ONE!

Funny about that, eh?


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Oh yeah...our own CubaMark claimes that "Cuba recovered from the loss of trade with the Soviets and rebuilt itself"

Oh really? That would be big news to most Cubans. They seem to realise (just like the rest of the world realises) that the whole Cuban Marxist experience depended upon massive wealth transfers from the old Soviet Bloc, just to stay alive.

When that money pipeline suddenly stopped...so did any illusion of their continuing prosperity. And any illusion that their crippled system could actually provide for the people of Cuba. Every ideal vanished, and was replaced with cruel reality.

They are clinging to life right now. Most Cubans hover on the brink of starvation these days. Many thousands attempt to flee this horrid situation every single year. Practically ALL of their most cherished social programs are either collapsing or have already collapsed. Nothing is getting "better". EVERYTHING is getting worse. Every single day. And they all know it!

But CubaMark claims that they have "rebuilt" after the sudden loss of all of that Soviet cash.

Nothing could be farther from the truth. Go there...and look for yourself. The whole place is falling apart, and everyone is looking for the exit door. While patiently waiting for Fidel to die and free them from this terrible dead end.

It's soooo sad.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

MacNutt said:


> I never ever saw a Cuban actually smoking a Cuban cigar. Not in all of the time I was living there. Not EVER!
> 
> Does this tell you something?


Yes, it does and I congratulate you on your amazing ability to so accurately read and post such long messages despite your disability. You must tell us what software you use. Is it something experimental from the CNIB? 




MacNutt said:


> Kind of like NEVER ever seeing any Canadian ever playing hockey. No matter where you went in Canada. Not EVER!


To be honest, that's not a very good example. I've never seen any hockey games in my entire life. Not one and I'm from Montreal.

In fact, I have never watched any sort of organized sport for more than five minutes...not football, baseball, soccer, etc....and certainly not the Olympics!


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Tell you what, Ironmac...

Go to Cuba and have a real good look for yourself. Stay far away from Varadero and Havana and go out and have a good long hard look at the real Cuba as it stands today. Travel across the whole length of the island (it's a surprisingly big place) and take a few weeks to get a real feel for what's going on there...and take some time to get a feel for how the average Cuban feels about their current reality. And ask them what they think is in their future. If you dare.

The answers you will get from the Cubans will amaze you. And they will shake every bit of your chosen ideology to it's very core, I promise you.

I just hope you are prepared for this new shock to the system Ironmac...especially since all of your previous proclamations and predictions about the middle east are now in tatters.

Ideological re-positioning can be such a maelstrom. And reality can be so tough to take, for some people.

Hopefully, you are one of the strong ones, old buddy.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

Sorry but I will never go to Cuba. My vacations never involve trips where I lie around on a beach. Next trip will probably be a bike tour towards Chicago or Gettysburg...or Cabot Trail again.

BTW, what previous proclamations and predictions about the Middle East are you talking about?


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I never mentioned anything about laying around on a beach in Cuba. I've only done that once or twice in the whole time I lived there. Mostly because my Cuban girlfriend wanted to see what it was like to do that. (She is a Doctor of medicine and is restricted to certain areas of the country. Like many other Cubans, she had never been to a beach on the north side of the island...where all of the good sand is. As long as she was with me, she could travel wherever she wanted to go. And she wanted to see beach. For the very first time in her thirty year life.)

What I suggested to you was this:

Go and travel the length of the island, while IGNORING the usual Canadian tourist spots. Take your time about it. Go and learn about the real Cuba. Talk to the people and see what they have to deal with as a current reality. Every single day of their lives. Live like they do, eat what they eat, and suffer like they do.

It's an eye-opener. Lemme tell ya.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

<a href="http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/sfl-acuba21feb21,0,7672526.story?coll=sfla-news-nationworld">U.S. Gives Thousands of Dollars to "dissidents"</a> - $200,000 only a "drop in the bucket" compared to overall expenditure to overthrow a legitimate government. Where the hell are the OAS and the U.N.?

<a href="http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID=%7BBED8BC94-424D-4FDD-9FF5-E18BF3A886D4%7D&language=EN">World owes Cuba debt of gratitude</a>, says Dominica's Prime Minister.

<a href="http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=7688944">World Churches say U.S. Violates Law at Guantánamo</a>

M


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Yep...all of those Cuban dissidents are just paid American agents. Or were "bought off" by the evil capitalist American pig-dogs as they attempt to overthrow Castro.  

And all of those tens of thousands of Cubans who deperately attempt to flee Fidel's "egalitarian workers paradise" each year are simply mistaken, eh?

How about all of those terribly poor people you see all over Cuba? The one's with deep desperation written large in their eyes? They probably just don't understand how good they really have it...is that right?

Wake up, Mark.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Hmmm...no reply.

No possible rebuttal perhaps? Or just too busy to actively defend Fidels wasted and defeated system these days?

Especially since the Castro government in Cuba has now instructed all of it's depressed and impoversished non-voting citizenry to "limit contact with foreigners". Apparently in order to stave off a further erosion of Cuban support for the "glorious revolution".

The penalty for spending too much time talking to foreign visitors has not yet been defined by Fidel. But it could be something along the lines of the penalties for actively questioning Castro and his failing system in public.

That would be 25+years of hard labour in prison. A whole bunch of Cuban dissidents and journalists are now serving lengthy jail sentences for openly criticising the Fidel Castro government..and for asking him to hold the open elections that he promised all Cubans about four DECADES ago.

Tooo sad.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Just got two more emails from inside communist Cuba.

One was from a Cuban born native who has a masters degree in Geology....and who works for the Cuban government. The other was from a Canadian who is married to a Cuban and who has been living there for more than fifteen years.

They both are claiming that "Fidel is on the way OUT!" and are expressing major relief that this is finally happening.

There is going to be some very loud cheering in the streets of Cuba, sometime this year. Perhaps very soon.

Watch and see.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*SSIDS strikes again!*

The <b>Salt Spring Island Disinformation Society</b> spewed:


> the Castro government in Cuba has now instructed all of it's depressed and impoversished non-voting citizenry to "limit contact with foreigners"


Whereas the actual <i>Associated Press</i> report states:


> HAVANA (AP)--Cuba's Tourism Ministry issued a resolution telling its workers to keep their mingling with foreigners to a minimum, prohibiting everything from accepting personal gifts to attending events in the homes or embassies of foreigners without written permission.


Note the subtle difference: SSIDS claims "all" Cubans must now scurry away in fear of an approaching tourist (the ridiculousness of that image does not merit any attempt to refute it - one does not need to do so). 

The reality is that workers in the tourism industry, those who <b>benefit disproportionately from interaction with tourists</b> are finally being brought down a notch. The majority of Cubans benefit from tourism revenues, as the Cuban government has strictly controlled foreign investment and kept - in 95% of the cases - at least 51% ownership of hotel and beachfront developments, with full ownership reverting to the Cuban state after a set period (15-25 years) at which point all profits are domesticated - and none expatriated. That means the wealth generated by the tourism industry stays in the country, benefitting Cubans in the funding of the vast social security system (health, education, housing, food, etc.) This is unlike pretty much every other country - Jamaica being a fine example -- where profits are expatriated for the most part, a minor tax goes to the government coffers, and a certain degree of spin-off business does exist. 

Those Cubans who work in the tourism industry make a very good living. In a country where "equality for all" is sincerely strived for, the accrued benefits to those who worked as taxi drivers, busboys, cleaning staff, bartenders, etc., were huge compared to the incomes afforded to all other Cubans. That disparity has become a problem, created great resentment in the society, and led many (but not most, despite the anti-Cuban propaganda) professionals to abandon their jobs to worm their way into some kind of interaction with foreigners. Note to potential travellers: the Cubans who <i>seek you out</i> on the resorts, or on the streets, are not representative of the majority of Cubans who pursue their lives with dignity. 

One must remember that the United States is not alone in its efforts to undermine the Cuban government. The Czech Republic has also been insanely intrusive and troublesome, as was the government of Spain until the socialists came to power. Canada's own history of diplomatic interference is not entirely innocent. Those in the tourist industry who accept dinners or gifts from the various embassies are either interested in or are being recruited for anti-government activities. (When was the last time a hotel barmaid or taxi driver in Toronto was invited to the U.S. embassy for dinner? I thought so.)

Never forget that Cuba is not a society that exists outside of geopolitical intrigue. Every single day it faces very real economic / political threats from the hemisphere's only superpower, a country which has blatantly advocated the overthrow of the Cuban government and dedicates millions of dollars each year to achieve that aim. It also continues to be occupied by U.S. troops - the naval base at Guantánamo Bay, where the U.S. is in violation of international law, the Geneva Convention, and true justice through its torture and illegal imprisonment of innocents at their concentration camp.

Now, SSIDS CEO G.W. MacNutt will continue to pollute cyberspace with the doctrine of the right-wingers. SSIDS continues to misrepresent reality with innuendo, bogus 'analysis', and outright disinformation. The citizens of ehMac have, in various fora, risen to challenge that agenda. I welcome the solidarity of my fellows in this community.

M.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

CubaMark said:


> The citizens of ehMac have, in various fora, risen to challenge that agenda. I welcome the solidarity of my fellows in this community.
> 
> M.


To the barricades, comrades!!!


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Asylum-seekers*

And for the statistically-challenged SSIDS:


> And all of those tens of thousands of Cubans who deperately attempt to flee Fidel's "egalitarian workers paradise" each year are simply mistaken, eh?


In 1994, at the height of Cuba's economic crisis brought about by the dissolution of trade ties with the former Soviet Bloc, Cuba experienced a spike in the number of people attempting to emigrate to find a better economic situation (an analysis confirmed by a leaked U.S. I.N.S. memo). In 1994, some 19,500 Cubans sought "asylum" in the U.S. In 2003, that dropped to nearly half: 11,200 <small>[Source: <a href="http://www.unhcr.ch/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/home/+UwwBmeThIaexxwwwwwwwwwwwwhFqAIRERfIRfgItFqA5BwBo5Boq5AFqAIRERfIRfgIcFqng1xwMzmwwwwwwwwDzmxwwwwwwwdFqidGmnGaxOa-uPPyER0ay0Ig/opendoc.pdf">UNHCR</a>]</small>

So the "tens of thousands" of Cubans that SSIDS talks about is steadily declining, as the Cuban economy continues it's Latin America-leading recovery (in terms of growth rate).

Meanwhile, according to the same UNHCR report, Cuba continues to accept refugees from the Western Sahara (over 700 in 2003, down from 1400 in 1994) and has a sizeable refugee population from Haiti. Cuba has always been a devout internationalist - lending support where needed not only to liberation struggles (Congo, Nicaragua, Angola, etc.,) but also to populations needing medical assistance, whether due to natural disasters or the inability of governments to provide for their own people. One stellar example, as AP reports, is the presence of hundreds of Cuban doctors servicing the poor of Venezuela: "<a href="http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050225/lf_afp/venezuelacubahealth_050225173334">When Ill, Venezuelans Call the 'Cuban Brigade'</a>"

Yes, this is certainly and <i>evil</i> country.... one must wonder what dictionary SSIDS staff employ....


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

CubaMark said:


> One stellar example, as AP reports, is the presence of hundreds of Cuban doctors servicing the poor of Venezuela: "<a href="http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050225/lf_afp/venezuelacubahealth_050225173334">When Ill, Venezuelans Call the 'Cuban Brigade'</a>"


I believe that they're also in Honduras where, despite being poorly trained and open to criticism because of that, they are still better than nothing.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

MacNutt said:


> Just got two more emails from inside communist Cuba.


The Cuban people are repressed, under the thumb of a brutal dictator, and yet they have free access to communicate with the outside world?

Odd, that.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

PosterBoy, are you considering MacNutt part of the "outside world".


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

Outside Cuba, anyway.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

PosterBoy...

The vast majority of Cubans have no active contact with the outside world. Heck...most of them don't even have telephones. Almost none of them have computers.

Outside TV or radio broadcasts are blocked by cheesy but effective Soviet-era jamming equipment. It's like listening to a chainsaw all across the radio dial...except where Fidel has one of his own propaganda machines.

There is NO cable TV. Most Cubans have a TV set...but colour TV is not very common. There are only two broadcast channels in most cities...and you have to have some sort of antenna to get them. One is "ALL Fidel ALL of the time" and the other comes and goes. It usually consists of carefully-edited state sponsored news (two hous each night) that projects a continuous image that the rest of the world is made up of small enclaves of ridiculously rich capitalists who are surrounded by hordes of homeless poor people wandering the streets.

At night this second channel is all spanish soap operas from other parts of latin america. They feature people living normal capitalist lives and show the Cubans what most of the modern world really looks like. They are tremendously popular.

The state-run Cuban newspapers and TV stations are always showing every single bit of violence that happens in any country outside of Cuba. They make it seem like Cuba is the only calm spot on an otherwise terribly violent planet that is tearing itself apart with ongoing mayhem.

Mostly, the Cubans themselves know better. They are very well educated (thanks to Fidel) and most of them have no jobs (also thanks to Fidel).

So they have a lot of time to speculate on this stuff. They have long since arrived at the real truth. Which may be why most of them hate their bearded tyrant with such venom. And can't wait for him to die and be replaced.

BTW...my ex-girlfriend, who is an acclaimed Cuban medical doctor with two PHD's, only had a black and white TV when I first met her. And no phone, no computer, no car.

She lives with her mother and two brothers in a small apartment. She earns one single dollar per day. And she is a DOCTOR!

The emails that I recieve on a regular basis are from several Canadians who live in Cuba and from two different Cuban earth sciences professionals with whom I worked with on several occasions. The Canadians are allowed to have outside contact with the rest of the world on a limited basis. The Cuban Geologists have some contact with other countries outside of Cuba when they are at work during the day (the oil industry is crucial so they have some leeway). Neither of these prominent Cuban scientists has a telephone or a computer in their homes. One does not even own a refrigerator.

He is saving up for one. But even though he is one of the leading geologists in all of Cuba, it will take quite a while before he can buy a refrigerator for his family. You see, he only makes 50 cents per day. Same as a teacher or an elevator operator.

NONE of them...no matter WHAT they do for a living...ever gets quite enough to eat each day. And everything all around them just keeps on breaking down and getting worse all of the time.

And THAT is the sad and desperate reality of today's Cuba. What a mess.

Go there....and see it for yourself. You'll be shocked.

Trust me on this.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Several days and no reply from an outraged CubaMark. Interesting.

He knows all of what I've said in the above post is true. Wonder why he has chosen to remain silent about it?

Say...perhaps Fidel has ordered HIM not to talk to foreigners or "enemies of the triumphant revolution" too? (Castro recently ordered his citizens to refrain from talking at length to foreigners. I kid you NOT!).

Poor Cuba.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Gerry, my sincere apologies. I somehow missed your post in this thread of March 10th, thus, I was unaware that you had returned for yet more humiliation. Allow me a few minutes to provide the reference refutation of your SSIDS propaganda. For the moment, though, let me deal with this:


> Castro recently ordered his citizens to refrain from talking at length to foreigners. I kid you NOT!


Well... what to say about that? If you're not "kidding," then we can only conlude that (a) you are therefore lying, which would hope is not the case, or (b) you're ideological prediliction leads you to see (x) where the rest of lucid society sees . 

It has now been well established that the 'restrictions' amount to nothing more than a <i>code of professional ethics</i>, such as most businesses implement, and applies <b>only</b> to managers and administrators in the tourism industry. The average tourism worker... the bellboy, the maid, the bartender, etc.... will not have to alter their current, egregarious, friendly, outgoing, helpful and pleasant interaction with tourists.

For full text of the resolution, and an explanation of its <u>real</u> extent, visit <a href="http://www.canadiannetworkoncuba.ca/Documents/TourismRegs2005.shtml">the Canadian Network on Cuba</a>. And while you're there, take the time to read about the upcoming Municipal elections, set for April 17th.

When you state that "Castro recently ordered his citizens..." you continue to perpetrate the falsehood (aka "the lie") that all Cubans must now turn and run in the opposite direction whenever a foreigner is spotted. How ridiculous. This is a country for which tourism is now the #1 foreign exchange (money) earner, above sugar, above nickel, above everything.

You are spouting <b>propaganda</b>. One would think that a man of integrity would not act in this manner, even if it is intended to 'bait' me.


M


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Hola, mis amigos. My son just returned from a two-week student exchange in Cuba. They lived in a dorm with Cuban students and were amazed at how freely the average person spoke about the good and the bad in Cuba. They were expecting the "party line", but were able to get most of their hosts in this academic exchange program to speak freely and without fear of retribution.

I have not been to Cuba, so I cannot speak about the situation. My son just returned home yesterday, and I hear that Macdoc is off to that locale as well. So, we shall have some first-hand up-to-date accounts of the situation as it exists in parts of Cuba. Hasta luego.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

MacNutt said:


> The vast majority of Cubans have no active contact with the outside world. Heck...most of them don't even have telephones. Almost none of them have computers.


But he ones you talk to do have computers, and email accounts, and can freely communicate with the outside world. If the majority of the population is unable to do this, then it seem that perhaps the small sample you talk to is not an accurate sample for the rest of the population, being well off enough to afford such luxuries. 

Maybe kind of like if you used the residents of British Properties in West Van as a sample for the entire GVA; their interests are quite different than most of the rest of us.

Just a thought, based on the data you provide.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

If you care to re-read my post on this subject PB, you will find that I have told you that I am in some limited form of email contact with several Canadians...all of whom have married into Cuban families...and two Cuban-born earth sciences professionals who have limited access to internet at their workplace. Not at home. Neither of them have telephones in their homes. Just as most Cubans have no telephone service to their homes.

Funny that CubaMark hasn't responded to THAT part of my last post. 

And I sent him an article recently about Fidel's latest commandment to his subjects re: speaking to strangers. Since then I am hearing that most Cubans are openly defying the recent chat ban...just as they are now openly defying a whole bunch of Castro's commandments these days. (There are even open forum discussions on how to make the difficult transition to democracy! In CUBA! For the first time in ages!)

Big surprise. The old tyrant is on the way out, by all accounts.  

I'm not sure what Macdoc or anyone else might see or learn about on a trip to the sunny beaches of Varadero. Even with a day trip to Havana or two thrown in. The only way to REALLY learn how things are in that destitute relic of Marxism is to get out into the actual countryside and make your way as best you can. Live and eat and travel the same as the average Cuban has to.

It's an eye-opener.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*How can one speak to one who closes his ears?*



> And I sent him an article recently about Fidel's latest commandment to his subjects re: speaking to strangers. Since then I am hearing that most Cubans are openly defying the recent chat ban...just as they are now openly defying a whole bunch of Castro's commandements these days.


Yup, same old MacNutt. Completely ignoring what other people post, and going right on ahead with the same old message. <i>Repeat a lie often enough, and people will come to see it as truth</i>. Ah, but that's always been the CIA's modus operandi, stretching back at least as far as Guatemala, 1954.  

Now, for the benefit of those who are able to / willing to read:


> ARTICLE 1: Tourism workers in their relations with foreigners <u>while meeting outside the country</u> shall limit those relations to those that are strictly necessary, and should keep in mind the following ethical, moral, and professional principles:


This obviously does not refer to domestic Cuban tourism workers, and certainly not the average Cuban. MacNutt: Admit that you are wrong. Stop spreading misinformation. Look up the word <i>integrity</i>.

M.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I'm just sitting here wondering how Canadians or Americans would react if told by their government to do this while traveling in other lands. (Tooo funny!) 

And, Mark....care to deal with the statements I've made about Cubans and their limited access to telephones or the internet. You have some firsthand experience in this area, I believe. How many Cubans actually own a computer? How long have they been allowed to own a computer? Wasn't it just a short time ago that personal computers were forbidden by the Castro government?

How many Cubans have access to the internet in their own homes? And...most telling here...if the "embargo" were lifted tomorrow and all regulations relaxed....how many Cubans could actually AFFORD to buy themselves a personal computer? Or a car?

(THIS outa be good.)


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

MacNutt said:


> you will find that I have told you that I am in some limited form of email contact with several Canadians...all of whom have married into Cuban families...and two Cuban-born earth sciences professionals who have limited access to internet at their workplace.


Right, so what you're actually saying is that you're getting your information second hand from some Canadians, and from two Cubans who only have access to the net because of their expertise. 

That's an even smaller sample.

How do you account for bias in the information the Canadians are feeding you? How do you account for exxagerations/imbellishments in the information that the two cubans are feeding you?

I'm not saying that the situation isn't bad down there, I'm just saying that maybe you should stop presenting your opinions about second hand information you're being given as the "written-in-stone gospel."


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

The Canadians that I am talking to are all married into Cuban families. Very extensive Cuban families (as is often the case in Cuba). They are not the rareified elite who are considered the "chosen ones". That special status is reserved for Fidels closest buddies and the top political types. The people I talk to report it as they see it, and I know it's all true because I lived and worked there for quite a period of time. It's the same stuff I saw when I was there.

Unlike CubaMark. Who only visits the place.

Also...my mind is not clouded by a rosy view of this last bastion of leftist extremism. I am not willing to make pulic excuses to explain away the thousands of people who've been thrown into jail for simply saying or thinking "bad thoughts". Or to explain away the constant shortages of almost everything, including food. And I am more than ready to make loud comments on what I saw when I lived in that country.

Unlike CubaMark. He quotes far-leftist articles (often generated by Fidels own propaganda machines) while attempting to "disprove" what I've said. He also minimises what Amnesty International has said about Fidels human rights abuses and seems to also ignore what the European Union and much of the rest of latin America has recently said about Fidel and his persecution of dissidents.

Cubas prisons are bursting at the seams with innocent people. While it's food cupboards are empty. And while thousands and thousands attempt to escape from the place in anything that will float. Every single year.

Believe whomever you choose to believe. Or...better yet....take a few weeks and visit that magical and tragic island in the sun. Stay far away from Havana and far away from the regular tourist havens, and have a good long look at it for yourself.

Like I've said before...it's an eye-opener.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

MacNutt said:


> I am not willing to make pulic excuses to explain away the thousands of people who've been thrown into jail for simply saying or thinking "bad thoughts".


Thousands? Hrmmm..last I heard it was 70-odd people three years ago. As I asked before, where did you get your numbers from?



MacNutt said:


> He also minimises what Amnesty International has said about Fidels human rights abuses and seems to also ignore what the European Union and much of the rest of latin America has recently said about Fidel and his persecution of dissidents.


What does the rest of Latin America say about Fidel? Urls please.



MacNutt said:


> Believe whomever you choose to believe.


Maybe we should debrief MacDoc's son?


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

> And, Mark....care to deal with the statements I've made about Cubans and their limited access to telephones or the internet.


I think an article from the Mexican daily newspaper <i>La Jornada</i> says it more eloquently than I might:


> The Helms-Burton Act of 1996 upset the creation of a partnership which would produce fiber optics, coaxial and data transmission cables. In 2003, the Department of Commerce denied an export license to a California agency wishing to donate 423 computers to hospitals and clinics in the island. The Cuban internet connection lacks the adequate bandwidth to satisfy national demand. The blockade forces the use of expensive, slow bandwidth and satellite transmissions, easily avoided if a fiber optics cable ran between Cuba and Florida.
> 
> To what valid premise obeys the omission of such prohibitions? Is there a dilemma between "free speech" (ambiguous proposition) and the premises and axioms regarding egregious losses which U.S. imperialism occasions Cuba in the areas of basic and wireless telephony, electronic commerce, electronic mail and internet access?
> 
> ...


<div align="right"><small>Source: "An Opinion on the Internet in Cuba," by Jose Steinleger, <i>La Jornada,</i> February 06, 2004</small></div>

And to add one comment to José's summary, one must also remember the other major challenge to communication, particularly via such technology as computing: literacy, an area in which Cuba outperforms the vast majority of its neighbours.

But, as usual, Cuba's rabid critics continue to hold it to a different standard than the rest of the world. While Washington's allies in the region were murdering indigenous peoples in the countryside and street children in the capitals, Cuba was educating its people, giving children a freedom from slavery and endemic poverty. Even today, Cuba's internationalist missions provide health care and education to the people in Venezuela, Guatemala, Honduras, Haiti, etc., where governments had failed - or been prevented - from doing the same.

You can sit back and sip whatever mind-altering substance is present in the water there at SSIDS HQ, but it doesn't change the facts. The United States of America has pledged to bring about the end of the Cuban Revolution, and states publicly that it is spending $59-million to do it. Now... what do you think they're doing with that money? 

Do you think it's proper behaviour for a wealthy superpower of 380-million people to decide that, because a poor, third-world, underdeveloped, post-colonial, embargoed nation of 11-million people decides it doesn't want to put profits before people, it can therefore interfere in the internal affairs of that country and attempt to assassinate (1960s and 1970s) or otherwise bring about the overthrow of the government? 

Given Washington's *cough* <i>stellar</i> track record of overthrowing governments it doesn't like in favour of "better" governments (let's see... Chile, Honduras, El Salvador, Grenada, Panama, -- and that's just this hemisphere), forgive me for being just a wee bit cynical.

Now, I realize you have little else to do but re-raise topics that we've covered <i>ad nauseum</i> over the past few years, but really - don't you think we could just cut all of this wasted time out and simply post URLs to previous discussions?
<ul>
<li>America: Where Terrorists Roam Freely</li>
<li>Cuba and Sex Tourism: Bush Lied, Of Course</li>
<li>Workers of the World, Unite!</li>
<li>Haiti: U.S.-Created Crisis, Bloody Hands...</li>
<li>Colin Powell on Cuba</li>
<li>Fidel Castro Should Be Arrested!</li>
</ul>
...and I'm sure there are others....

M.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Quick question here CubaMark...and I don't know if you will care to deal with it's audacity or not....

What would keep Cuba from forming a broad bandwidth internet connection with Mexico? Instead of the USA? Mexico and Cuba have open air traffic and mostly open relationships on pretty much every level. And Mexico has almost NO restrictions on personal computer ownership or internet useage for it's citizens.

Or how about Venezuela? Especially since Hugo Chavez is currently in total control of that oil-rich (and internet accessible) Latin American nation? And since Chavez is a huge fan of Fidel's (now-failed) authoritarian style of government?

They are best buddies, right now!

They are trading oil with Cuba on a large scale. And they are not that far away as telecommunications go. Why couldn't friendly Venezuela provide some broad band and serious rapido internet connectiuons for Cuba?

Chaves HATES the Americans! And he's filthy rich with oil money. He could easily provide an open internet portal for his Cuban buddy without any fear of repercussions from pretty much ANYONE!

And...this is the BIG question here... how come most Cuban DOCTORS And SCIENTISTS and TEACHERS...not to mention pretty much all of the rest of the Cuban population, don't actually have a home computer just yet?? And why are they not actually planning on having one any time in the near future??

And WHY don't these Cuban professionals even have a telephone at their HOMES?? Right here in the 21st century??

Care to blame THAT particular disparity on the " US embargo" Mark??


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

> What would keep Cuba from forming a broad bandwidth internet connection with Mexico? Instead of the USA?


Give that one a little more thought. Who owns the high-speed connection? Mexico the country doesn't. Read the Helms-Burton Act again, and you'll see that any U.S. subsidiary or subcontractee that resells telecommunications service is subject to penalties (under the U.S. "Trading with the Enemy" act). A start-up ISP that agrees to sell broadband to Cuba will soon find its own connection clipped up the line. Ain't gonna happen.

Cuba *can* buy high-speed, satellite broadband, via Italy (which it currently does) - and it's expensive as hell, particularly for a developing nation still struggling to regain its economic balance after losing some 75% (or more) of its foreign trade partners over a decade ago. Cuba currently buys less than it needs, but it is what national economic stresses dictate.


> nd...this is the BIG question here... how come most Cuban DOCTORS And SCIENTISTS and TEACHERS...not to mention pretty much all of the rest of the Cuban population, don't actually have a home computer just yet?? And why are they not actually planning on having one any time in the near future??


Gee... that's the <i>Big Question</i>, is it? Talk about ethnocentrism.... I had no idea that possession of a home computer was an obligation, or a "human right." Gosh, my parents are deprived. So are many, many friends of mine here in Canada. Some of them use a computer all day and are glad to get home away from it (of course, those are Windows slaves). Those kids who squeegee for cash at the intersection, I wonder if they have computers at hom-- oh, uh, I mean, back at the shelter.. or in their backpacks? But you know, you're right. It's far more important for every person on earth - including those poor refugees who are sitting in African camps without QuickTime-on-Demand and video iChats so they can talk to their family members back in... oh, wait, I forgot, civil war, family's dead. Oh, and they only speak Somali, and they're not actually literate, and there's no power, and... well, gee, they should still have a computer! I mean, God, it's the 21st century, right? Maybe USAID will airdrop a few Hewlett-Packard PCs in it's next shipment of last year's grain reserves...


> And WHY don't these Cuban professionals even have a telephone at their HOMES?? Right here in the 21st century??


Sigh. Right <b>here</b> in the 21st century does not equate to the 21st century <b>there</b>. If Cuba had been able to sponge off the rest of the third world's labour and raw materials as did / do the "West," I'm sure they would have achieved a level of development which would have permitted telephones in every home. As it is, Cubans have to make do with shared telephones (hell, even I, a lad of only 38, had a party line when I was a kid). As for computers in their homes, Cubans have complete and open access to the many Joven Clubs http://www.jcce.org.cu, which provide access to the residents of every municipality. ETECSA, the national telephone company, completed the installation of the national fibre optic loop, and is adding new telephones every day. The gap is narrowing. It's being done... you may prefer to live in the past, but Cuba is changing, slowly, but it is changing.

While I am grateful that I can sit here, at 2:04am, in bed, connected to a high-speed wireless internet service, I do not ever take it for granted, knowing what a luxury this is. We are the elite. The vast majority of the world has never touched a computer, never sent an email, never visited a web page. They're far more concerned with shelter, food, a job, health care, and finding a government that doesn't mow them down in the streets... all things the Cuban Revolution succeeded in giving to its citizens, something for which you hold, apparently, only disdain. Interesting to see where one's values lie....

...and I see that you continue to avoid acknowledging the -to be polite, misinformation- you have been caught spreading under the guise of "truth." Will you admit now that your diatribe about the tourism document and the effect upon average Cubans was just so much bull, or is that something you are ideologically incapable of doing?

M.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Mark. Odd that you made a lame excuse for Mexico being somehow _PREVENTED_ from providing an open internet link to the Cubans...because of the hated YANQUIS and their total control over the world as we know it. Despite the fact that the Mexicans have open trade with the Cubans in every other area and despite the fact that you can fly to Cuba from Mexico with no problem. No real passport requirements, either (despite what you might have heard). It's a pretty open border. I know...I've used that route to Cuba many many times.

But...you didn't explain why Hugo Chavez of Venezuela (who HATES the USA and is filthy rich with oil money. And who seems to answer to NO ONE!) has so far neglected to provide an open internet link for the pobre Cubanos.

Especially since he is busily studying every single page in Fidel's shopworn "Tyrant's manual" right now. And selling Cuba huge amounts of much-needed oil. And accepting hundreds of Cuban doctors into his Venezuelan slums.

The Americans are not much more fond of the fat and despotic Chavez than they are of the fat and ancient and despotic Castro. How could they POSSIBLY put pressure on this no-brain wild card to deny Cuban access to the internet through Venezuela when all of this other cross border trade is going on?


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

And, sorry Mark...you're lame explanation that home access to the internet and personal computer ownership is a "luxury" simply doesn't carry much weight in this day and age.

Most Cubans don't even have phones in their houses. Not even the doctors and scientists have this "luxury" which all of the rest of the world takes for granted.

And almost NONE of them own a home computer. Nor will they EVER own one, as long as Fidel and his failed system remain in power.

But...then again...most Cubans don't have cars either. Many don't have colour TV sets. Or even WORKING TV sets. Some don't even own a refrigerator.

Many (Most) Cubans also don't get quite enough to eat each day.  

These are all considered to be "luxuries" apparently.

Like the freedom to speak their minds in public...and to come and go as they please without constant fear of being thrown in jail for it.   

What a crock!


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Is that what they taught you in Langley, Gerry? "just keep talkin'... doesn't matter what anyone says... just keep talkin'"
Simple. You should have been able to determine this for yourself (thanks for wasting my time). Venezuela's backbone to the global internet is owned by <b>MCI</b>. The Terms of Use agreement states:


> ILLEGAL USE. The MCI Network may be used only for lawful purposes.... This includes, without limitation, material protected by copyright.... or violates export control laws.


And what are the "export control laws" of which they speak?


> I.*** U.S. Export Controls*
> 
> The United States Government restricts the export of certain products and services to certain countries. Countries to which exports are most restricted include Cuba,


Here's the full slate of Country sanction documents from the Dept. of the Treasury, Office of Foreign Assets Control. This is the office that lends enforcement action to the Helms-Burton Act and the Torricelli Bill, both of which lean on U.S. and foreign businesses which do business in Cuba. It is under Helms-Burton, for example, that the executive officers of Canada's Sherritt corporation are under threat of arrest if they set foot in the U.S.


> you're lame explanation that home access to the internet and personal computer ownership is a "luxury" simply doesn't carry much weight in this day and age.


Gerry, I can't believe you said that. You've been around - you've seen the real conditions under which most people in this world live... and you can still claim that home access to the internet is <i>not</i> a luxury? Methinks we should put Salt Spring Water under an Environmental Alert!


> the fact that you can fly to Cuba from Mexico with no problem. No real passport requirements, either (despite what you might have heard). It's a pretty open border. I know...I've used that route to Cuba many many times.


Oh, yes... You and I can do that, no problem. We're <i>Canadians</i>. But Americans? No chance, buddy. The U.S. has security personnel staked out at the Mexican and Canadian airports. This is a matter of public record

Anything else you need to have refuted? Any more misinformation you'd care to try and pull over the eyes of those who still have the endurance to stick with this thread? Or are we going to get yet another holier-than-thou pontification from the West Coast Island Paradise that houses the SSIDS facility? 

sigh.... 
M


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

C'mon, Mark...

Hugo Chavez has massive oil bucks at his disposal and he seems to just LOVE to thumb his nose at the Americans every chance he gets. The USA has to be gentle with him because Venezuela is one of the most signifigant _non-Arab_ oil producers that supply them with the oil that they need.

Are you trying to tell me that Chavez and Venezuela can't set up their own system because it might violate a licensing argreement? With the _AMERICANS_ ???

Oh...pull the OTHER one! Toooo funny!


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

Back on Nov 5th MacNutt prophesized this,



> The end for this whole silly mess is very near. Watch and see.
> 
> Trust me on this.


It's been over 4 months now and we're still waiting Nostradamus, or should we just throw it in with the rest of your failed visions? (ieC's winning the last national election)

Laterz


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

My son wants to return to Cuba next year, and my wife and I would like to go for the first time. I figure that we had better go while Fidel is still alive. I have predicted to my wife that within five years of his death, Cuba will become full of MacDonald's, Holiday Inns, Walmarts, etc, etc.


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

Dr.G. said:


> My son wants to return to Cuba next year, and my wife and I would like to go for the first time. I figure that we had better go while Fidel is still alive. I have predicted to my wife that within five years of his death, Cuba will become full of MacDonald's, Holiday Inns, Walmarts, etc, etc.


With any luck Cuba will have a worthy successor to Castro that will be able to bring new ideas to Cuba as well as keep Cuba from becoming another US capitalist puppet regime.

Laterz


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

K_OS said:


> With any luck Cuba will have a worthy successor to Castro that will be able to bring new ideas to Cuba as well as keep Cuba from becoming another US capitalist puppet regime.
> 
> Laterz


Welll...we certainly know where YOU are coming from, now don't we? 
I'm surprised you didn't manage to throw in some comment about "President Bush's running dogs" or manage to have the Internationale playing in the background or something.

Castro does have a hand picked sucessor. Watch the Cubans mobilise themselves en masse into the streets to soundly reject that hand-picked successor just after Fidel leaves or dies.

As a matter of fact...they already are.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

K_OS, I don't see the US government as getting involved as much as multinational companies. Sad, but the surge of foreign "investment" in this potentially lucrative island resort will destroy the Cuban culture. This is why I would like to see what Cuba is like prior to a Disneyfied Orlando-like situation emerges. I hope that I am wrong.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Better hurry Dr. G. The place is busting at the seams with desire for change right now. What it is right now can't last much longer...no matter what Fidel or anyone else seems to think.

The people are beginning to speak out. And their voices are getting louder every single day.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Gerry, my son said that the Cubans they spoke to spoke openly about Castro, and not always in favorable terms. However, they were more concerned to be helpful and friendly to the 30 students in my son's group, and to be fine guests. The many boxes of medical and educational supplies we all donated and which were shipped down with each student in lieu of a second bag, was very appreciated. Stephen brought down a small bottle of Screech and was given a bottle of clear Cuban rum in exchange.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Dr. G., one of the things many people incorrectly assume about Cuba is that the doors to foreign investment will be thrown open once Fidel leaves office. Not quite. Building upon its hugely successful efforts with tourism and nickel (with Canadian mining company Sherritt), Cuba regulates foreign investment, in 99% of the cases maintaining 51% ownership of the joint venture. There are no 100% foreign-owned businesses operating in Cuba.

Cuba's planned economy regulates investment in key sectors - and never in the vital sectors, such as health care and education. There will be no permitting foreign companies to play a role in those areas (any joint venture in that respect would present a risk to a vital public service).

It is also interesting to note that Cuba is the only country in the region with the power to do this: almost every other nation operates under IMF loan conditionalities which require an open market to foreign investment, or they don't receive the IMF loans (or debt financing).

If Cuba were "free" (as in market), and had the same relationship with the world development "banks", they quite probably would be as much a basket case in terms of social indicators as her neighbours.

M.


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

Dr.G. said:


> K_OS, I don't see the US government as getting involved as much as multinational companies. Sad, but the surge of foreign "investment" in this potentially lucrative island resort will destroy the Cuban culture. This is why I would like to see what Cuba is like prior to a Disneyfied Orlando-like situation emerges. I hope that I am wrong.


we all can only hope that the Cuban people have enough courage to limit there support of the American Multinationals as allot of European country's have, I present to you Portugal about 20 years ago McDonalds decided that they would invade the Iberian peninsula and so far they have failed miserably as the Portuguese would rather have there own culturially driven food instead of what McDonalds calls food also other US Multinational company's including auto manufacturers have been shunned for European equivalents.

Laterz


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Spoken like a good student of the "glorious revolucion", Mark.

Still...it must be getting harder and harder not to notice all of that creaking and groaning as the terribly leaky Cuban ship of state begins to list over and drift, rudderless, and without any perceptible forward motion. The aging Fidel is still propped up in the wheelhouse, leaning on his cane and crying "onward", but the helm is no longer answering and the engines are all rusty and siezed solid.

Meanwhile, below decks, there's a mutiny afoot....


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Uh, Gerry... that has got to be one of the most neutral posts I have made on the topic. It's all a matter of public record (Cuba's management of foreign investment). I'm not making up the comparative statistics that show Cuba in the High Human Development ranking, nor is it a fabrication that the outgoing president of the World Bank, James Wolfensohn, praised Cuba's achievements. Is he also a commie dupe?

Your posts are becoming more creative, Gerry, but they are still devoid of any factual information. Yes, you and I do interpret the Cuban situation from our respective socio-political perspectives, but at least I present supporting / corroborating links and data. Talking incessantly about how horrible Cuba is may convince those with limited attention spans and who have little first-hand experience of the country, but eventually all that has passed between us in this forum will be confirmed or countered by real-world events. 

I'm looking forward to that accounting with confidence.

M


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

So am I Mark. You can buy me a cold Bucanero in that little bar in Puerto Padre that I like so much when the inevitable comes to pass. Ok? 

We'll compare notes. It'll be a moment to cherish.

Trust me on this.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Good episode of the West Wing tonight all about the failure of the embargo to wrought any change in Cuba and the politics of Florida that prevent new ways of thinking. Too bad it's a fictional program..... 44 years is a long time.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Jim, I wonder if they shall continue this topic of restoring relations with Cuba? They are running out of new episodes, so this should be interesting. The West Wing is about the only TV I watch on a regular basis, outside of the CBC news each night.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Only three episodes left - I doubt Cuba will hit the agenda again although it was an excellent example of how a failed policy is perpetuated by whomever is in power due to worries about poking the ants nest. It serves no one but partisan thinking. The calculus that underscores politics often leads to good men making poor decisions and its not confined to any country, party or system.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Jim, I was just reading an article re some declassified documents pertaining to how J.K.Galbraith advised John Kennedy against going into Vietnam with 6000 "advisors". This was after the Bay of Pigs fiasco and prior to the Cuban Missle Crisis. I always thought that Jimmy Carter might have been the president to normalize relationships with Cuba.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Any President who wants a second term does not dare to anger the monolithic voting block of Cuban escapees who reside in the pivotal state of Florida. They justifiably hate Fidel and will strike back at any President who opens up relations with Cuba. Even though that new open relationship would almost certainly spell the final end for the old dictator.

Oddly enough...a second term President COULD normalise relations with Cuba. Because he wouldn't be beholdin to anyone at that point.

George W. _MIGHT_ surprise us all with yet another bold move that seems wild and crazy, but would bear real fruit a few years down the road. He could normalise relations with Cuba tomorrow.

But NOT if brother Jeb Bush (current Governor of Florida) wants to run in 2008.

The answer to one of these might just give us the answer to the other.

Stay tuned.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Almost two weeks and no answer from CubaMark, et al?

No horridly outraged replies from the last few dyed-in-the-wool marxists around here?

I'm dissappointed.  

But not terribly surprised.

After all, just last week a major financial magazine reported Fidel Castro to be one of the very richest tyrants left on this planet. And Castro's Cuba is also now facing it's second negative UN vote due to major human rights violations.

And....Fidel is also having to currently deal with some pretty widespread public protests against his iron rule. On his own home turf. For the first time in several decades.

The Cubans are fed up. They are NOT happy. They want a change. And they are speaking out about this. Publicly.

Some are being thrown in jail for twenty years or more for this. Many more are standing up to take the places of the ones who've been recently imprisoned for speaking their mind on this subject. Vast numbersof Cubans are openly talking about what to do about Fidel...and how to affect a rapid and positive change in Cuba before this year is out. Many many Cubans are already speaking about Castro in past tense. As if he was already gone...

The clock is ticking down to zero. And the old tyrant knows it.

I'm betting that, these days, he has a jet all warmed up and waiting on the runway. Pretty much every night.

But I also bet that he won't actually have a chance to get to it when the big change finally comes to Cuba. It'll all happen wayyy too fast for his old brain to grasp. He'll hang on to the end...and imagine that the Cuban people actually love him. Also to the bitter end.

And so, he'll be arrested and tried for his many crimes. Or summarily executed, like so many of the recently deposed leftist tyrants were, when the Soviet socialist empire collapsed.

It will be a sudden and sad end to a political era. And it will also finally close one of the last chapters from the troubled and turbulent sixties. One that held on for an unexpectedly long period of time...at the point of a gun.

It will be a rare moment. A monumental change. And it's coming very soon.

Watch and see.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*the unending anti-propaganda effort*



> Almost two weeks and no answer from CubaMark


Ummm.... to what? Reviewing the last...what, 10?... pages of this ridiculous thread, I see none of your unsubstantiated rants which haven't been effectively countered. 

I see you've decided to trot out the hilarious-if-it-weren't-taken-seriously-by-wingnuts story from Forbes, that Fidel is so rich he could buy Bill Gate's ass or something like that. This is one of those bits of propaganda that Fox News types love to chant like a mantra, despite the hugely flawed methodology employed:


> In the past, we have relied on a percentage of Cuba's gross domestic product to estimate Fidel Castro's fortune. This year we have used more traditional valuation methods, comparing state-owned assets Castro is assumed to control with comparable publicly traded companies. A reasonable discount was then applied to compensate for the obvious disclosure issues.
> <div align="right">(Source: Forbes)</div>


Essentially, Forbes' "analysis" comes down to: Cuba is Communist. Fidel is a Dictator. Everything in Cuba is Fidel's. Fidel is rich. ...sigh... I've said it before: Show us the mansion. Show us the Swiss bank accounts. Show us the excesses. Christ, Fidel didn't even wear a suit until a friend gave him a few in the late 1990s. Any serious scholar of Cuba, even those critical of Fidel, know him to be the real deal: he believes in the concept of socialism, of the state (i.e. the people) owning all property communally for the benefit of all. Call him an idealogue, but it's gotten him through the past 46 years....

Let's see... what other yammerings have emanated from the SSIDS this week...:


> Castro's Cuba is also now facing it's second negative UN vote due to major human rights violations


HAH!  That's a good one. It's highly unlikely that the anti-Cuba resolution at the Human Rights Commission will pass this year (last year it squeaked through by a single vote). More likely is that a resolution condemning the U.S.' <b>torture</b> at Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo Bay Naval Base will pass... the U.S. is less able to strongarm other members of the council this year, as it has in the past. You're out of touch with current events, Gerry old pal.


> It will be a rare moment. A monumental change. And it's coming very soon.


zzzzzzz... *huh*... Wha? ...sorry..... nodded off there, waiting for this "monumental change". What exactly is your definition of "soon"? This has come up many times before, and the waiting is ... well... a waste of time. Eventually Fidel will either pass from this life or step down and hand over the reins to another generation. We'll see. But it won't be the event of cataclysmic proportions you and those like you are expecting (and, dare I say, hoping for).

Keep on drinking that Salt Spring water, MacNutt, old fella. Whatever additive is in there, it's obviously got you on quite a trip... 

M.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

...lo and behold, what have we here? Looks like a CIA-trained assassin, terrorist and all-around-bastard has come home to roost:

Luis Posada Carriles Reported Back in Miami


> He is a highly controversial figure who was a Bay of Pigs veteran with ties to the CIA dating back to the 1960s. An icon to some in the exile community, Posada has been linked to assassination and sabotage operations against Castro and his government, including a string of bombings against Havana tourist spots in 1997.


Now... why, exactly, would one describe this piece of filth as a "controversial figure"? He's a murderer. Period. And odds are, he'll take his place back home in the good ol' U.S. of A., living the good life just like fellow murderer Orlando Bosch (Source: National Lawyer's Guild / USA).


M


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

*The Cuban Biotech Revolution**

This is a great article showing how Cuba has come out of the Soviet collapse with great resolve and ingenuity to prevail in the current state of the world. There doctors and biotech engineers have done a great job, so much so that American pharmaceutical company's are lobbying congress for permission to do business with Cuba.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/cuba.html

Enjoy

Laterz 

<p><a href="http://ehmaculate.ehmac.ca/"><img src="http://torontominiclub.com/ehMaculate_Beaver.jpg" alt="" height="160" width="401" border="0"></a></p>


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

KOS...Cuba's "biotech" advances are far more a part of an old man's desire to stay alive for a little while longer than they are of anything else. They are also rumored to be a part of an ongoing biotech experiment that might just give Cuba's communist government a "magic bullet".

BTW...I get this info from a Cuban physician who I used to be intimately involved with. She has often told me about how Fidel has been diverting inportant funding into his own pet projects. At the expense of things like anasthetics for surgical prodcedures. 

Imagine going in for an operation in one of Cuba's much admired hospitals...and then finding out that you will be awake all during the procedure. And that you will be held down by six large orderlies because there is no available anasthetic to help you deal with the pain. (don't worry...most patients pass out after the first five minutes or so of excruciating pain. While screaming at the top of their lungs.) 

Then you will wake up and find yourself on a mattress that is only about an inch thick. In a tropical hospital that has NO air conditioning. And may not even have any hot water. Or electricity, depending on what time of day it is.

Oh...and they re-use hypodermic needles in Cuban hospitals until they are dull. Then they re-sharpen them and use them again until they are dull again.  

Such is the reality of the fabulous Cuban medical system.

But...HEY...they ARE making great strides in vaccines and cellular research! So that Fidel can live for a few more years!

That's good. Right?


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

CubaMark said.... "Fidel is so rich he could buy Bill Gate's ass or something like that."

Wellll...not quite.

Bill Gates has upwards of forty or fifty BILLION dollars. Fidel has just over a half billion dollars. Doesn't seem like Fidel could even afford to shop at Bill Gate's yard sale to me. Despite the fact that he owns all of Cuba, and has done for almost a half century.

This shoud tell us all something about the "great successes" of the socialist/communist system. After all, Cuba used to be the richest Latin Nation in this whole hemisphere, and one must imagine that...had that still been the case...Bill Gates would have been second banana on the wealth list to a rich nation that has almost half as many people as Canada currently does.

But so it goes. Fidel is filthy rich by most all accounts (and we have no idea how much money he has stashed away in swiss bank accounts, after all).
But he is a pauper compared to one single American man.

And the Cuban people are now among the very poorest in the whole hemisphere.

Gotta _LOVE_ that "Triumphant Revolucion"!

SUCH A roaring success!! For EVERYBODY!!


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

MacNutt, your ability to continue spreading this ridiculous and hurtful filth is disappointing in the extreme. The only reason I continue to engage you in this forum is for fear that someone out there might take you seriously. That, and the fact that I'm popping post-op pain pills and my better judgement is floating around in the ether right now...

Cuba's biotech industry - your ability to twist a postive achievement into a diabolical plan should garner you a literary prize for fiction. Those interested in reading non-fiction will want to check out this page of stories on Cuba's achievements in Health and biotech, including the creation of vaccines for Lung Cancer, Hepatitis B, Pneumonia and Meningitis. The latter two advances have been made through a partnership between Cuba and the University of Ottawa. The fact that in your fantastical "reality," the direct (and only, apparently) beneficiary of these advances is Fidel Castro, well... that just speaks volumes to your ideological delusions.

Of course, people like our West Coast friend and nominee as U.S. Ambassador to Cuba, John Bolton (Ref.1, Ref.2, Ref.3) like to spread that fiction as fact, as per the mandate of the Salt Spring Island Disinformation Service (SSIDS).

No-one is claiming that all in Cuba is roses and candy... life is hard, and despite the rhetoric of the right-wingers, the U.S. policy of economic warfare, blockade, isolationism and intimidation is directly to blame, as I have documented in these fora many, many times in the past (but of course, those posts are automatically filtered by the SSIDS anti-truth software).

Even when Cuba's critics want to tell you how bad it is, it can't live up to SSIDS propaganda. Take, for instance, this excerpt from the CubaNet "news" service:


> <b>FROM CUBA: Dental clinic runs out of anesthesia</b>
> 
> RANCHUELO, Cuba, April 1 (Félix Reyes Gutiérrez, Cubanacán Press / www.cubanet.org) Early on March 14, the Ranchuelo dental clinic ran out of anesthesia.
> 
> ...


Now, whereas our dear MacNutt would have you believe that Cuban officials are so dedicated to forcing good health upon its citizens that they would employ "goons" to "hold you down" while you are being treated, it is quite obvious from this note above that at least one communist dentist is not pulling his/her weight, daring to allow citizens not to have dental surgery due to a lack of anaesthetic. SSIDS will no doubt portray this as a crime that must be punished!

For an excellent look at what Cuba is doing both domestically and internationally in the field of health care, I urge everyone to read the MEDICC Review, a magazine produced by Cubans and Americans: 
<ul>
<li>October 2004</li>
<li>November 2004</li>
<li>December 2004</li>
<li>January 2005</li>
<li>March 2005</li>
</ul>

How exactly does one reconcile the perspective put forth by SSIDS and the realities of Cuban achievements in health care, such as <i>"Cuban Physician Wins American 
Academy of Neurology Award"</i> (Source)?

For those who are willing to set aside decades of U.S.-origin propaganda and look at Cuba on its own merits, the truth is plain. The SSIDS agents can try to distort the truth all they want, it will not triumph against open minds and clean consciences.

M.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Mark...oh my good buddy Mark...

Had you actually lived and worked in Cuba...instead of just visited it for short periods of time..then you would be as aware as I am of the ongoing LACK of anasthetics in the dentists offices in Cuba. 

My Cuban-based Canadian buddy (who is a prominent player in the Cuban economy, by the way..and who is FILTHY rich copared to pretty much ALL of the Cuban population), has had to send his Cuban-born wife to the local dentist several times since they have been married. She has told me all sorts of horror stories about these terribly painful episodes. At great length, I might add.

She even delayed a much-needed dental procedure until she could visit Canada. Just to avoid having to have dental work done WITHOUT any sort of anasthetic.  

She also described, in MUCH detail, how completely modern and futuristic the Canadian denists were...when compared to the stone-age stuff that was available in Cuba.

This confirms what my Cuban Doctor girlfriend has told me about the rest of the Cuban medical system, BTW. 

It's in failure mode. And there are almost NO anasthetics for any operations that they do. All of this DESPITE the fact that Cuba can freely buy anasthetics from several dozen countries without fear of any problems due to the American "embargo".

The whole much-vaunted Cuban medical care system is currently falling apart at the seams. Pretty much any Cuban you can get to talk to you will tell you this, as well.

It's common knowledge amongst Cubans.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

We should also note here that Cuba was on an even level with Chile on almost every way of measuring these things back in the mid sixties.

Back then...Chile was on the brink of embracing Fidels vison of the world in a BIg Way! They were about to embark on a serious attempt at a modern marxist/communist state back then.

Good thing they didn't! 

Cuba, today, is one of the most impoverished nations in the western hemisphere. Tens of thousands of it's citizens attempt to escape from marxist/communist Cuba every single year. On anything that will float.

On the other hand, capitalist Chile is just about ready to surpass Great Britain in standard of living these days. Which would put them on a level with we Canadians. Or even slightly above.

They have maginificent universities and great hospitals. And pretty much every Chilean owns a car. They also all have running water and a telephone and indoor toilets. And a computer. 

Unlike most Cubans...who have none of this stuff.

What a difference a few decades can make. What a difference a few changes in ideology can make!

This discrepancy in lifestyles is not lost on most Cubans. They are now actively protesting their current captivity in public.

It's only a matter of time until Cuba goes through some sort of massive and positive change. It's the will of the people, after all.

But Fidel and his chosen successors will not be a part of this new change. They will be swept away by the tides of time and progress.

Trust me on this.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

MacNutt said:


> Back then...Chile was on the brink of embracing Fidels vison of the world in a BIg Way! They were about to embark on a serious attempt at a modern marxist/communist state back then.
> 
> Good thing they didn't!


Didn't they embark upon some sort of dictatorship? Good going, eh?


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

> We should also note here that Cuba was on an even level with Chile on almost every way of measuring these things back in the mid sixties.


 Yeah, yeah, the right-wingers continue to trot out statistics that "prove" how well-off Cubans were before the Revolution. It's always interesting to see how different ideologues interpret the numbers. What is often ignored in the presentation of pre-1959 statistics on Cuba is the distortion of using per-capita figures. If the national per-capita income is $10,000 a year, that sounds pretty good... until you discover that 90% of the population makes $10/year and the other 10% of upper-class urbanites holds the rest <small>(figures do not represent actual Cuban situation - used for example only)</small>.

An excellent, thorough examination of the data is presented by University of New Mexico researcher Nelson P. Valdés, one of the most respected academics on all things Cuba. He noted in a 1991 analysis of the conditions pre- and post- Revolution, that prior to 1959, in Cuba <b>"...malnutrition was so widespread as to affect 91% of the rural population."</b> (Source)

This is not the case today. Not only are all Cubans guaranteed a minimum food basket (the monthly ration or <i>libreta</i>), but they have supermarkets and farmer's markets on top of these with which they can purchase goods <i>in Cuban pesos</i>.

Here's a simple question, MacNutt: When were you last in Cuba? When did your feet last walk the streets?

M


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I just returned and was both impressed and saddened.
The eastern part of Cuba is in real trouble with water shortages - the worst drought in 70 years.

We put in a 1000 km on some less than sterling roads and yes it looks much like Appalachia in the 60s as far as the smaller towns go but people are friendly, literate, and ALL have food and medicine. Each region has a medical school plus each town clinics and GOOD schools that are attended.

Police are an excellent resource and well respected in the communities - I asked how the police were organized, were they separate from the military etc.
I was told the they are paid well to avoid corruption - thye are always well dressed and polite even when stupid tourists blast through a 40 zone at 80.

Got off when we flashed our Canada passport. There was never ANY sense of danger anywhere we went and we got ourselves thoroughly lost and into dead ends of the eastern part of the island.

Singing while working seems a national pastime and some them are reallllly good.

The array of vehicles was hilarious and driving at night was a continuous video game with real people, oxen, bicycles, pony carts, people on horseback, 120 kmph tour buses, tractors, trucks you name it looming up out of the dark.

Lots of ongoing interaction between people and families at all hours and people share vehicles Africa style - 70 people to a truck - 15 to a car. 

Chatted at length with a university student from Belize who'd been there at University in SAntiago de Cuba for 4 years of 6 year civil engineering degree. He said there were many international students including a few from Canada.
Good conversation over several hours of travel and we bought him lunch. Learned about Belize as well........maybe next year. :clap:

Each town and community elects it's representative and the regions do as well. If Fidel is viewed as a Head of State ala some royal families in other states the rest of the governance is pretty standard, local, regional, national assembly. It's more along the lines of Toronto where party politics does not come into play but there is competing candidates for the positions - there was no sense of top down imposition at all - in fact the thriving black market pointed to a vibrant if limited market system in the basics.

All the Cubans I met had a humorous view of their situation - liking some aspects and wishing others were better but there was universally a pride in their country and in standing up to the US.
And no one we met was in least bit uncomfortable talking about pluses and minuses of the last 50 years.

They ALL had no wish to go back to being the "US whorehouse" as one characterized it.
His grandfather told him how bad it ws in the country prior to Fidel and considering Fidel started with some 80 people there is no question it was a "peoples coup".

Now admittedly the part of the country we were in was where it all started and far from Havana so there is still strong support. I can't comment on the western part of the island but if you think people want the "good old days pre Castro"...... what a joke.

What they need is water and desalination projects and help with reforestation and too get out from under the ludicrous embargo. Mind you it was nice to see the mix of Canadians and Europeans at the resorts sans Yankees.
There are partnerships developing with some European companies but all with Cuban 51% ownership and the new eco approaches are excellent.

Highly recommended as a Canadian travel destination - good value - great people - spectacular beaches and reefs and all the rum, capuccinos and food you want for about $100 a day including getting there.

Now if you want to TREAT yourself this goes at $300 a day.










We took the walking tour - wow what a lovely place,










If you look at the shoreline behind the couple that's all you can see of the resort from the ocean and the entrance is equally discreet from the landside - it's entirely built into the landscape. http://www.cuba.tc/MeliaRioDeOro.html

Feet on the ground, made some friends.......will go back. :clap:

And don't listen to the US propaganda......go there, decide for yourself. You'll enjoy it and likely go back - many many Canadians we met go every year.


••••

Mark I'd be curious how that squares with your more detailed knowledge.??


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Gracias, mi amigo, for this enlightening first hand account of Cuba. It sounds much like my son's account, who returned last month after a two week student exchange.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Lots of Canadians down there. Hope your son enjoyed his stay - where was he???

IN the small world category one of my long term clients walked up and said hi - staying in the same hotel.
TWO of my daughter's teachers were also at the same resort!!!!! We were stunned.
The resort even organized and undertook a Terry Fox run. :clap:

I'd say about 1/4-1/3 of the guests were Canadian.......it was kind of amusing to hear Canadian accents and chatter about hockey etc in the warm tropical setting.
With free bar 24 hours a day and loads of places to sit and hang out and chit chat it was a very lively and warmly personal adventure.

When we visited the high end resort - ours was 2-3 star ( 3 different resorts combined hence the range ) there was a bit less camaraderie - bit more formal atmosphere tho staff were very gracious.
Megs and I both agreed that while we'd love to do a week at the 5 Star ( mainly for the food ) we liked our resort for the ""feel" and wide wide cross section of people and incomes.
That came through on the reviews we read as well. Club Amigo as a very friendly, family/people oriented resort.
But the trimmings and settings and facilities at Del Oro.......wow.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

MacDoc, thanks for the update. I was wondering how your trip went - glad to see it was so extensive! (Cuba's on of the few countries in which getting lost doesn't threaten your life).

When it comes to the resorts, you are now more the expert than am I.... I'm not a beach fanatic, so I prefer to stay in the city, with excursions to sand and surf when the mood strikes. This also comes from my aversion to tourism in general as an economic basis for a country (that aversion grew out of seeing what unbridled tourism development has done to Jamaica, not to mention what it has done to S-E Asia). Still, I encourage Canadians to spend their tourist dollars in Cuba, because the profits - 51% of them in most cases - stay in the country and support the local economy, the national social safety net, education, health, etc. 

By the way, did you experience any instances of Cubans running the other direction from you, afraid for their lives, following the "new tourism restrictions" that our West Coast buddy warned you about? Didn't think so. 

The Terry Fox Run wasn't just organized at your restort, BTW. It's an annual event that encompasses thousands of people from all over the country! Here are some pics of the 2004 run and here's a Press Release on the 2005 Terry Fox Run from the City of Kingston, ON, which is "twinned" with the Cuban city of Cienfuegos. This year, over 1.4 million Cubans participated in the Terry Fox Run.

The International Report (2004) from the Terry Fox Run had this to say about Cuba's participation:


> we had an incredible increase of over 3,000 sites thanks to the Cuban
> “miracle”, their participation increased from 260,000 in 2002 to 1, 036,040 in 2003. (PDF)


In 2004, the next-closest number of participants came from the Czech Republic (70,000), still a far cry from the 1-million-plus in Cuba!

Maybe next year you guys can plan to go down in February, and participate in the Run in Cuba? 

MacDoc - don't suppose you have an online gallery of your Cuba photos? 


M


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I don't recall ever suggeszting that the Cubans would actually "run away in fear" at the thought of speaking to a foreigner! Any references to this, Mark?

We all realise that Fidel has ordered this...and most of us who have been there also realise that Fidels' stern orders are taken less seriously than they once were. That's especially so these days.

Nice to hear thet you stayed in a fancy resort, macdoc. You'll have to tell us more about this. Personally, I lived and worked in Cuba for several years but I've never spent more than fifteen minutes in ANY resort. I've never in my life even set foot in Varadero proper (although I had to leave via that airport on one occasion).

I have said many many times that the Cuban people are extremely friendly and well educated. I have never felt unsafe on any occasion while living there. Quite the contrary.

But...I also gotta TELL ya...the real Cuba doesn't get revealed to you until well after you've spent a good few months with someone in close quarters. No way you'll ever hear about everything by knowing someone for a day or two.

Many Cubans have been clapped into prison for saying the wrong thing to the wrong person. And all Cubans are very much aware of this. It's a part of their lives and a part of the ongoing climate of fear that Fidel has carefully woven over the population in order to continue to rule the place unchallenged. There is a friendly openness that greet you when you arrive...then, MUCH later on...there is the actual opening of their hearts. It only happens when they know for sure that they can fully trust you.

That's when you hear about the despair and the dissapointment. That's also when you'll see them turn their back on Fidel whenever he's on TV in a silent symbolic gesture. They also stroke their chins to simulate a beard and mutter "someday" half under their breath.

No way that you will EVER get this from a two week visit. You won't even truly see it after an extended visit of a month or three. Especially if, like CubaMark, you are a known part of a Castro government approved program.

You only get the truth once you've been there long-term. And have become totally immersed with the Cuban culture and totally entwined with an extended Cuban family or two.

THAT is when the REAL trust comes...and THAT is when all the false talk of the "embargo" begins to fall away. THAT is when all of Fidels crimes and terror come out in the open, and are spoken about in hushed tones. Usually late at night. THAT is when they look to you with deep sadness in their eyes and say "Can you get me OUT of here? Por favor?"

And, when they do this, it will tear the living heart right out of you.

Trust me on this.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Oh piss off - you haven't been there lately and I spoke to many who had been there, lived there for several years or forever and spoke honestly.

You're world view is whacked and most here know it.
Got something relevant, current to contribute??....fine. Otherwise it's just empty rhetoric.
You're mired in the cold war era and I saw a lot healthier country in Cuba than the cesspool St. Thomas has become. 
You're obsessed with a failed meme of market and US uber alle. The world has moved on. 

People are tired of the bull****....be relevant or be dissed. Not like this new. Too bad the "tribe has spoken" here doesn't provide equivalent the "Survivor" remedy....more's the pity.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Nice language macdoc. Forgotten the rules around here? Or do you consider yourself and your ideals to be "above" the rest of us.  

I'm quite sure you spent several hours "talking" to many different Cubans during your short stay on the island. WHEN you actually ventured out of the tourist areas, that is. 

Trouble is this:

Like many others, you have NO IDEA what living and trying to EXIST in a one-party marxist state, under the iron rule of a long term tyrant, is _REALLY_ like. None at all.

And you never will. This is abundantly obvious.

There are two personas for most of these people. One they show to strangers...and one that they MUST keep to themselves. Unless they want to risk serious jail time. Or want to risk serious jail time for their friends and families who are STILL stuck in Cuba. 

They have learned this over the years, and they abide by it.

Because they have NO CHOICE.  

Figure it out yet? Figure out why so many thousandes of Cubans take to the sea in anything that will float in order to FLEE the place, every single year??

Probably not. Okay...then take a moment to think back on what we now know about the old failed Soviet Union or any of the satellite countries that were in it's iron grip for so many many years.

Ever talked to someone who lived through that? Ever asked them to speculate on what the "Cuban Experience" might be, in this present day?

You might want to do this before you engage in any more "lipflapping" on a subject that you obviously have no clue about. None whatsoever.

You might also want to watch your language when here at ehmac. This isn't the ragged unregulated mess that is "magic", after all.

Abide by both of the above and you might just be able to limit some of the personal embarassment that you have already suffered (due to your unbridled and enthusiastic support for the corrupt Liberals, among other things.)

Don't...and you are on your own, old buddy.

Trust me on this.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Same old sh*t.


> There are two personas for most of these people. One they show to strangers...and one that they MUST keep to themselves. Unless they want to risk serious jail time.


No. People go to jail for breaking the law, not for "showing their hidden face." Those who violate the law - like those so-called "dissidents" who collaborated with a foreign power (the U.S.A.) against the interests of their own country - and act of sedition / treason - will go to jail. It boggles the mind that you are unable to conceptualize the unequal power relationship that exists between the U.S. and Cuba. This country of 11 million people has been - and continues to be - attacked militarily, economically, politically and culturally by the hemisphere's SuperPower. I gotta tell you - for a Scot to sit back and advocate that the Cubans just roll over and let an imperialist power screw them into the ground... one has to question your heritage, buddy. Would you have said the same for England's designs on Scotland? Hmmmmm.


> re out why so many thousandes of Cubans take to the sea in anything that will float in order to FLEE the place, every single year??


We've covered this bullsh*t so many times, I should keep a text clipping handy to drag-and-drop. A shame you continue to ignore reality. Why is it people like you see Cuban's "fleeing tyranny" while the tens of thousands of Latin Americans who try - and succeed - to enter the U.S. every year via Mexico are just "looking for work"? That's a double standard to which Cuba has always been held by the right-wingers. The same disinformation masters who neglect to tell you that Cubans, unlike other Latin Americans, are guaranteed U.S. citizenship if they manage to set foot in U.S. territory. That's a helluva powerful "pull effect." How many people from Central America would be catapulting themselves over the U.S./Mexican border if that same law applied to them?

...and as for avoiding "personal embarrassment," I believe there's a thread out there that is now into its third page of waiting for your promised contribution. Might want to spend some time getting your butt kicked over there, as opposed to here.

M


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

CubaMark said:


> ...and as for avoiding "personal embarrassment," I believe there's a thread out there that is now into its third page of waiting for your promised contribution. Might want to spend some time getting your butt kicked over there, as opposed to here.
> 
> M


That thread now has close to 2400 views...extraordinary!!! I should have sold tickets!!!


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

No doubt if the world was ending tomorrow, you'd STILL be jumping up and down and freaking out and saying "_MacNutt!! Look at ME!! Answer MY questions!!"_

As I said on another thread...Ironmac, take a happy pill.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

I don't think he'd be saying it quite so much if you hadn't said "damn right I'll accept your challenge" and then proceeded to ignore it.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

And I probably wouldn't BE ignoring it, if the whole Liberal world wasn't melting down before our very eyes.  

I've been waiting for this moment since I first got here. I'm having waaaayyy too much fun right now to be sidetracked by something as minor as Ironmac's personal angst. Or his obvious obsession with me. (blows a kiss to his most ardent fan).


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

MacNutt said:


> And I probably wouldn't BE ignoring it, if the whole Liberal world wasn't melting down before our very eyes.


That's a lousy excuse but we all know that. 

Did you not say before that you've found a "few rare gems"? So, give them up...c'mon...I asked only for *three*.



MacNutt said:


> I've been waiting for this moment since I first got here. I'm having waaaayyy too much fun right now to be sidetracked by something as minor as Ironmac's personal angst.


What will be your next excuse?


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

MacNutt, if you're not up to it, just say so. No one will think any worse of you for it. In fact, at this point, some people would probably think better of you.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

PosterBoy said:


> MacNutt, if you're not up to it, just say so. No one will think any worse of you for it. In fact, at this point, some people would probably thing better of you.


The only way he's got that sort of _cajones_ is if he ordered them from a menu.  

Prove me wrong this time, MacNutt!!!


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

IronMac said:


> The only way he's got that sort of _cajones_ is if he ordered them from a menu.


Mmmm...deep fried bull testes...I wonder what the texture is like???


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Gee Ironmac...I thought you preferred them raw.  

Meanwhile...back to the "fall of Fidel".


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

At least we know who's not the squeamish type don't we?


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

A <u>very</u> good read from the Lusaka Post this morning:


> <b>DEFENDING CUBA'S HUMAN RIGHTS RECORD<br>Despite the main economic challenges the country faces as a result of the United States embargo of more than 45 years, no children in Cuba have to beg or are homeless; no children have to scrounge for a living on the streets. In the rest of the world - including the United States and other developed countries, but mainly in the other Third World countries - tens of millions of homeless children who have no parents or support of any kind, are begging in the streets to make a living. In view of this we ask: is there any country that has done more than Cuba to protect human rights? (Source)


That's just one angle on the story - it goes on to discuss political, social and economic rights.

<img src="http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20050421/thumb.sge.jas08.210405193711.photo00.photo.default-253x380.jpg" align="right">Meanwhile, the U.S. continues to harbour the confessed terrorist (and former CIA employee), Luis Posada Carriles.  This murderer, celebrated by a hero by the twisted minds of the Miami gusanos, "snuck" into the U.S. (how?) from Mexico and is in hiding. He's looking to spend the rest of his days snug in the embrace of the country that made him what he is...a killer without remorse. 

This bastard blew up a Cuban airliner, killing over 200 people. He is responsible for a string of hotel bombings in Havana in the 1990s, one of which killed a Canadian resident, a crime for which he confessed in a long interview with the New York Times. 

He also was involved in the illegal U.S. support of the contra murderers in Nicaragua, that drug-financed proxy war which saw Washington-backed mercenaries kill rural peasants and blow up health care clinics (because they were "communist").

It's very intersting to see who the U.S. considers a <i>hero</i>, and who a villain, eh?

M


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

CubaMark said:


> A <u>very</u> good read from the Lusaka Post this morning:That's just one angle on the story - it goes on to discuss political, social and economic rights.
> 
> <img src="http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20050421/thumb.sge.jas08.210405193711.photo00.photo.default-253x380.jpg" align="right">Meanwhile, the U.S. continues to harbour the confessed terrorist (and former CIA employee), Luis Posada Carriles. This murderer, celebrated by a hero by the twisted minds of the Miami gusanos, "snuck" into the U.S. (how?) from Mexico and is in hiding. He's looking to spend the rest of his days snug in the embrace of the country that made him what he is...a killer without remorse.
> 
> ...


Well said Mark, the hypocracy in the US knows no bounds.

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend"

Laterz


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I always get a good laugh when I hear Mark spout one of Fidel's carefully crafted party slogans. 

Especially when he tries to tell us that there are no children begging in Cuba. Horse PUCKEY!!  

When I went into a US dollar store to buy my Cuban girlfriend a new television set (in Camaguey) I had to fend off a number of urchins with their hands out. They crowded around me and begged constantly while I was picking out the TV set and they dogged my steps all the way back out of the store. There were several withered old women outside the store as well. ALL of them were actively begging.

Wake up, Mark. Next thing you'll be telling all of us is that there are no prostitutes in Cuba. And that you have some "very reliable" Castro-generated figures to prove it!


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

While I've never been there, I have been other places and I can tell you one thing:

There is a big difference between people begging and people <i>having</i> to beg.

MacNutt, while those kids were crowded around you did your wallet go missing by any chance?


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I never carry a wallet. None of the old hands in South America ever carry one. Lesson I learned long ago in Bogota. I keep my folding money in my front pants pocket, right next to the boys. Anyone tries to get at that, and I'll know it instantly. 

These children were all skinny BTW. I'm sure that they got state rations like all Cubans do. But it's never enough. Even my girlfriends family, all doctors and engineers, were always going to bed a bit hungry.

And they didn't even have a working TV set when I met them. Or a phone. Or a car. Or a computer.

THAT is the cruel reality of Fidels' "_Glorious REVOLUCION!_"

What a joke.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

MacNutt said:


> These children were all skinny BTW. I'm sure that they got state rations like all Cubans do. But it's never enough. Even my girlfriends family, all doctors and engineers, were always going to bed a bit hungry.


Canadian children are the fourth fattest in the world...it's probably a good thing that those Cuban kids are going to bed a bit hungry.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

MacNutt, I believe I asked you a page or two ago... <i>When were you last in Cuba?</i> The statements you make describe a population circa 1993-1995, when the economic crisis was at its worst. People were hungry then, no question - Cuba had lost 78% of its export/import markets (I wonder what kind of chaos Canada would endure in a similar situation?). 

But this is not the Cuba of today. The city of Havana produces nearly 50% of its own produce demand in urban gardens. The economy has regained its footing with the establishment of the tourism industry and has been growing every year since 1994, often outpacing its neighbours.

And while in Ontario in the same period, hospitals were closing left and right, Cuba has never shut down a single school, hospital or neighbourhood clinic. The infrastructure remained sound.. shaky at times, but sound.

Reality dictates that you start questioning the things you think you know - all of that happened a decade ago. Cuba has progressed... a shame you apparently have not.

M


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

CM I suggest the standard of living in Canada would indeed take a tumble if the US goes into a tailspin just as Cuba got hit with the collapse of the Soviet Union. Cuba had too much dependence on Russian trade. A cautionary tale for us.

Just ask my dad about the dirty Thirties and how hungry people were...........good old capitalism was alive and well......many people starved to death in the "land of opportunity."

Ironic what it took to pull the US out of it's funk.

My Dad tells me tales of people regularly coming to the door in their rural neighborhood asking for food.










Hooverville 1930

THEY didn't think it could happen either in 1928...........









then in 1930









*Hubris *



> We in America today are nearer to the final triumph over poverty than ever before in the history of any land. The poorhouse is vanishing from among us. Herbert Hoover, *1928*
> 
> ...[A] host of unemployed citizens face the grim problem of existence, and an equally great number toil with little return. Only a foolish optimist can deny the dark realities of the moment.Franklin Roosevelt,* March 1933*


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Bad ideas and wrong assumptions based upon flawed data...not to mention a Grimm-style fairy tale of forced social engineering that came from a batch of now totally discredited masters who claimed that capitalism was somehow "optional" in this modern world, is what got Cuba into the terrible state that we see today. Took it from the richest of all Latin countries to the poorest. Turned the "Paris of the Caribbean" into an impoverished ghetto.

That, along with the one-leader one-party rule of Fidel Castro for the past four and a half decades. THAT is what did this! 

All of Fidels "wonderful revolucianary improvements!" are completely unsustainable in any sort of real world conditions. So he has had to put up a virtual wall to keep the real world out of Cuba.And to keep his own people IN. He had to do this, or he would have had to admit that he was so terribly wrong. Just as the now collapsed Soviet Union finally had to do. And just as North Korea will have to do, rather soon.

As we all know, the Cubans are busily trying to scale this wall and escape to a better life, by the tens of thousands, every single year.

And...I should like to point out that CubaMark always claims that many other citizens of poor latin counties also flee their lands for better economic prospects every single year. This is true.

But I find it odd that almost NONE of them flee their lands for the bright shining promise of Cuba. Even though we are always being told by Mark that Cuba has such a fair and equitable system...good hospitals...great schools...no poor people...etc...etc..

But no one, and I mean _NO ONE_ seems to be breaking down the walls or risking the sharks to get INTO Cuba. ZERO! Even though it must be a lot easier to get to for most latins than the USA is.

But all of these poor people in Latin America who are fighting to escape from their own counties for a better life seem to avoid Cuba like the plague.

Funny about that, eh?


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

MacNutt, of all your rebuttals to date, that was without a doubt, the weakest. No need for me to respond in kind.... thanks for giving me the day off!


M


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

> My Dad tells me tales of people regularly coming to the door in their rural neighborhood asking for food.


I can clearly remember in the late 40s and early 50s people who hitched rides on freight trains coming to our door to ask for food. (We lived right beside the tracks just outside a main railway point for CP rail, and they jumped off to avoid detection by railway police.)

In those days, these people were called DPs for short which meant "Displaced Persons". My Mom would always share whatever we had with them.

Most of these people were Europeans who had fled the ravages of WWII for a better life in Canada, and many of them could not speak english. They communicated with sign language to indicate their thirst or hunger.

One particularly ragged looking man gave me a German coin one day in return for a mashed potato sandwich my Mom had made him.

I remember my father's reaction when he got home from work and I showed him the coin. A policeman himself, and recently returned from service in Europe, he explained to me that the man must have felt welcome at our home to offer a gift of one of the last pieces of his country in his possession.

The residents of Cuba need the same kind of compassion today, not the torture and sting of American indifference.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

One wishes that Cuba only suffered <i>"the torture and sting of American indifference,"</i> SINC. Instead it faces continuous harrassment, subversion and isolationist policies. U.S.-Cuba relations would improve immensely if Washington would - for once - treat Cuba with respect.

M


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Here is what iMatt wrote about his experiences in Cuba on the "Cuba Tips" Thread.

It bears repeating.


iMatt wrote:

"This turned out to be really long, but I'll post the entire thing anyway because I know it will be of interest to some of you.

I took a couple of trips to Cuba in 1998-99, total about five weeks, and I made a serious effort to go off the beaten path.

Back then (and I stress that it's now been over six years since I last went -- and it was about seven years into the "Special Period"), what struck me most was the pervasive poverty. Most people were friendly and generous, but severely lacking in material comforts. Many people would put on a reasonably happy face, but it didn't take long to find undercurrents of deep unhappiness, even desperation. The scene of a dentist working under a palm tree in his back yard for minimal remuneration and with antiquated equipment may be a quaint one...but to me it was just sad. And I only saw that because that dentist had to rent rooms to travellers to make ends meet.

Transportation was generally difficult, slow, and prone to breakdowns. (I once spent four hours sitting in a train waiting for a two-hour trip to get underway, but that's just the most extreme example.) And the transportation used by most ordinary people -- flatbed trucks, rusty old trains, bicycles (with a rear passenger seat -- kind of a rickshaw), donkey- and horse-drawn carts, rickety buses, hand-me-down city buses from Montreal -- was generally very crowded and in poor condition (the donkeys and horses were particularly pathetic). Somehow I doubt this situation has improved much in six years, but I'm happy to be set straight if it has.

And in any sizeable urban area, or near any concentration of tourists, people in the streets were frankly annoying. This is not a phenomenon unique to Cuba, but being constantly (and I mean constantly) approached to buy bootleg (and likely counterfeit) cigars, or to check out someone's paladar (small-scale restaurant), or to procure a chica gets old really, really fast. 

Speaking of chicas, sex tourism was obviously rampant when I was there. Both travelling alone as a single man, and with a female companion, everyone assumed we both wanted to go whoring around and we received all kinds of pitches both subtle and blatant. That kind of assumption is of course based on the behaviour of visitors who went before us. Sickening. 

Equally sickening was a "stroll" I saw in the Playa del Este part of Havana, right outside a row of tourist hotels, where the girls looked even more sickly and miserable than the streetwalkers you see in Canada. Heartbreaking. Please, please, please, people, do not engage in sexual exploitation at home or abroad. It's just plain vile.

If you do decide to get involved with touts in the street, be aware that many of them will be all too happy to exploit your ignorance about the cost of living and the value of currency. (Again, this is surely not a uniquely Cuban thing.) So a five-cent cigar becomes a one-dollar cigar, a ten-cent glass of rum becomes $2, and so on. (I fell prey to this in my first few days.) If renting a room from a private individual, you will likely be sized up based on your appearance, age, etc. and a price will be quoted based on that; you may well wind up paying twice as much as the Argentinian backpacker staying across the hall. (Yes, six years ago and all that, but nothing I've read leads me to believe that any amount of time will stop this kind of exploitation/hustling.) 

And, to be frank, many, many of the ordinary folks I met who didn't go for the hard sell (i.e. direct requests for money) were obviously interested in knowing me because they hoped I would help them out. Which I could and did in small ways, but I'm not and never have been affluent enough to get into ongoing transfers of cash as some requested. 

Some random tidbits from my trips:

- street food: I would eat the street food (pizzas, sandwiches, ice cream, etc.), and sometimes it was terrific, especially the sweets and sweet drinks such as guarapo (fresh sugar-cane juice) and smoothies (I forget the local name). Pizza was uniformly awful. But the most fascinating thing for me was that in Havana if you went out in the morning and saw a cart with, say, ham sandwiches, it was a sure thing that every other sandwich cart in town would have exactly the same ham sandwiches that day.

- even tourist hotels and restaurants sometimes fell victim to shortages (most notably of bread...but sometimes just plain everything). 

- staying in a small, out-of-the-way resort town, population roughly 5,000, it quickly started to become obvious who was a Party member and who wasn't. And it also happened more than once that Party members of my acquaintance knew exactly where I'd been and with whom, or what my plans were, and made sure I knew that they knew. Creepy. BTW, this "resort town" was not a big tourist spot: there was one tourist hotel, which seemed mainly a destination for Party officials -- there were maybe a half-dozen foreigners there, and it was high season; and there were a couple of Cubans-only places.

- while being shown around Havana by the Cuban boyfriend of a Canadian woman I knew, we were stopped in the tourist zone of Old Havana. He got the third-degree from the cops (who ignored me except a quick conversation to determine our connection), and they wound up hauling him off to jail for lying. Yes, for telling a lie and not a false denial of a criminal act, either. (He exaggerated the closeness of our relationship -- which would have been OK with me if he'd given me some warning.) When he got out of jail a few hours later (not charged with anything), we went far away from the tourist zones and nobody bothered us at all. But this fellow most certainly did have to produce ID and justify his presence on the street to the officials...if he ventured into a designated tourist zone. 

- some places in a nutshell: Havana - lovely, lively but very crumbly; Trinidad - stunningly beautiful, but a bit of a tourist-trap; Cienfuegos - quite nice, but here I found the most aggressive beggars and greediest hustlers; Matanzas - pretty, but when I went it didn't live up to its lively reputation; Santiago - hotter than Hades, and stunningly beautiful; Baracoa - also very beautiful, but here the poverty was most blatant of all, and the sexual come-ons most aggressive; Guantanamo - flat, dull, hot (and you'll have a hard time getting so much as a glimpse of the U.S. base, which is several kilometres away from the city). 

- Also visited a number of rural areas, for example a nominally Cubans-only holiday camp near Baracoa (they let us pitch a tent), the mountains west of Santiago, and various parts of Pinar del Rio province. All lovely, full of charming people...mostly living in poverty. However, it must be said that this poverty came with shoes, clothing, housing, education, and food (though heavily weighted to carbs and all too often featuring mystery meats like domestic spam and "croquetas" which, as best I could guess, were deep-fried lard-and-cornmeal dumplings). 

It was beautiful, remarkable, unlike any other place, and utterly heartbreaking.

So, I don't want to take sides in the great pro- and anti-Castro debate, but I have to say that while both CubaMark's and MacNutt's accounts ring true in some ways, MacNutt's more closely parallels my own experience. (I haven't really debated anything much with MacNutt, but if you've been paying attention you'll realize I don't often share his point of view.) At the time I visited (again, I don't know what it's like today), this was not a happy-go-lucky land of healthy, well-fed folks. 

People were visibly hungry, and many (both male and female) were willing to prostitute themselves for nothing more than a filling meal. Parents receiving a gift of food would immediately sit the children down to eat it, and they would devour it like there was no tomorrow. Piece of chocolate for a six-year-old girl? Her first. Ever. And so on...

What I will say about the politics of the situation is this: the embargo should end, because it accomplishes only two things, both of them negative: it makes everything more expensive for ordinary people, and it gives Fidel a very good excuse to maintain a permanent state of emergency and avoid a truly competitive election for the presidency. (I don't care how democratic the municipal elections are; it doesn't change the fact that the Party is omnipresent and omnipotent in every sphere that matters most.)

I think there is genuine affection for Fidel, and he might even win a fair and open election, but it speaks volumes that he can't or won't do it. Part of the problem, of course, is that such an election is virtually impossible because the United States would do everything it could to guarantee a Castro loss. My dream is that the United States would lift the embargo in exchange for free elections minus American meddling."


(note: these are not my words. But the sentiment and feelings and observations are the same as mine. THIS is what Cuba is really like.)


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

*Almost Halfway Point!*

Check out this "call" by MacNutt on Dec 22nd, 2004:

http://www.ehmac.ca/archive/index.php/t-22084.html



> BTW.....
> 
> Anyone want to take me up on the bet that Fidel is on the way out? This year? If not this next month or so?
> 
> ...


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Getting obsessive again are we, Ironmac? Thought you were over that particular phase.


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

I'm flattered you felt it worthwhile to copy and paste all that, but surely a link would have sufficed. Also, it's worth stressing that while I like to think I'm a keen observer, there's only so much one person can observe with his own eyes in such a short time. It was quite a while ago now, too. I saw what I saw (including Fidel himself, speechifying), met the people I met, and formed certain impressions. Strong impressions, yes, but I didn't become a lifelong Cuba-junkie out of the whole experience either and by no means do I consider myself any kind of expert.

Anyway, I really don't want to get into a pro- vs anti- Castro debate. Mainly because I'm ambivalent: unlike most people, I see a lot of grey areas. A Revolution full of pluses and minuses; a country that, no matter how autonomous it is, does everything in the shadow of the United States; a country with huge problems that are not entirely of its own making; and a country that a lot of outsiders seem to think they can run better than the locals. I don't care to be one of those outsiders, so mostly I leave the topic alone.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I cut and pasted it because I honestly thought it was very well written and captured what my impressions were to a T. You nailed it.

Fidel's revolutionary "pluses" are well known, but they are completely unsustainable in the real world. And the real world is nibbling away at the edges of Cuba these days. Especially as there are almost no command style communist countries left to help shelter it from that reality.

If anyone wants to see a time warped country...a place that is frozen in time....or the last remaining Marxist/Communist society that you can easily get into (North Korea is a hard place to visit)...then by all means go to Cuba. This year.

Cuba won't be that way much longer. Change is only one single heartbeat away. A weak old one, at that.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

MacNutt said:


> Getting obsessive again are we, Ironmac? Thought you were over that particular phase.


Took me ten minutes to find that one...


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I'd say that was an improvement.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

A little over a year ago, MacNutt predicted that the end of Castro was near. CNN just quoted a CIA official that confirms that Castro might have Parkinson's and that there are questions whether or not he can maintain power past the next few years. See, for all of you who doubted MacNutt, all you had to do is wait a year, and then maybe wait a few more years, before he is to be vindicated. Hang your heads in shame all of you who doubted his wisdom. You all owe him a humble apology. Luckily, being the open-minded and fair person he is, MacNutt shall probably accept your apologies with understanding and compassion for your ever doubting him and not trusting the wisdom of his words.

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- The CIA has concluded that Cuban President Fidel Castro suffers from Parkinson's disease and could have difficulty coping with the duties of office as his condition worsens, an official said Wednesday.

The assessment, completed in recent months, suggests the nonfatal but debilitating disease has progressed far enough to warrant questions among U.S. policymakers about the communist country's future in the next several years."


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Dr G. this is akin to MacNutt saying he can make hot tea become cold just by thinking about making it cold.... Wait awhile and it will happen....

Trust me on this.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

AS, I see your point. Still, I think you owe MacNutt an apology nonetheless. I am sure that MacNutt could make hot tea cold, so this is a good analogy as to why we owe him the benefit of the doubt and trust him whenever he tells us to trust him. Of course, I have tried to tell him that "trust me on this" is improper grammar, and it should be something like "trust me on this point" or "trust me on this contention" to make it grammatically accurate. Still, overlooking this one minor linguistic miscue, what MacNutt tells us about Cuba, Castro, Bush, Martin, the Middle East, Central America, Latin America, Asia, Europe, communism, socialism, democracy, theology, petroleum-related industries, enercy, conservation, religion, voting, individual liberties, existentialism, drag racing, water, lifestyles, marriage, relationships, computers, televisions, radio, movies, neighbors, Hollywood, Canada and Canadians, and living in paradise should be accepted without question.


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

Dr G: you forgot bottled water 

EDIT:

Oooops sorry, saw it...


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Moscool, the concept of water is in the grouping "...individual liberties, existentialism, drag racing, water ...." I had about 37 more items to include, but did not want to go to the bother of listing everything, in that the list continually grows. Just do a search of "trust me on this", and you shall see all of the areas of expertise that MacNutt possesses. Trust me on this reality, mon ami.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

You forgot studmuffin and killing machine....


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

I was going to save this thread to start the New Year off right.


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

Dr.G. said:


> See, for all of you who doubted MacNutt, all you had to do is wait a year, and then maybe wait a few more years, before he is to be vindicated.


Does he have any other predictions of the same stellar insight? What is his position on the earth turning? Or what is his position on GW Bush? Will GW win the next presidential campaign?

Castro is 80 years old. Predicting that Castro's reign is soon finished is like predicting predicting that it will get cold in Winnipeg this winter.


Sorry... my contempt is set to high these days.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

da_jonsey, MacNutt shall be vidicated, trust me on this point. You would have to ask him what his predictions and "stellar insights" have in store for the world. Thus, he may be three or four years off about his Castro prediction, but it shall happen at some point that Castro shall die and a new government will be formed. I predict a US-style of commercialism and resort-based economy will result in 5 years after Castro's death. Since I can't predict as accurately as MacNutt, not having lived there, I can't say for certainty when Castro will eventually die, but I am willing to accept and have faith in MacNutt's prediction that Castro shall die eventually. Nor can I be sure if my prediction of a resort-based Cuba will happen in 5 years of this death, but I shall be willing to admit that I was incorrect on this speculation. I do not claim to have the infallibility of MacNutt, and I admit when I am incorrect.

I have a feeling that MacNutt has said all that he needs to say on this matter, and does not deem it worth his time to again inform us of the error of our ways. Still, I might be wrong on this prediction as well. We shall see.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

This is getting a tad snarky.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Beej, I don't think that AS, IronMac or da_jonsey were being "snarky". I think that they have had some issues with certain of MacNutt's views, but they are honest and honorable persons, and I respect their integrity.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

I too have had issues with some of MacNutt's statements, albeit fewer than the more experienced ehmacers. I would hope that when I get frustrated over the years of questionable commentary, and put it to print, someone would point out to me that, in their opinion, things were getting 'snarky'.

Also, to my knowledge, snarky is not exclusive of honesty, honor or integrity. I didn't intend to put those traits into question with my post, and apologise if I left that impression. 

Cheers.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Beej, that might have been my understanding of the term. Thus, if that was not your intention, then you would know the meaning of the term you used and I misread it in the aforementioned posting. I apologize for this misunderstanding. Paix, mon ami.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Alas, Dr. G., MacNutt's crystal ball remains as clouded as ever...



> Castro, the target of CIA assassination attempts after he seized power in a leftist revolution in 1959, said his longtime ideological enemies in Washington were now waiting for him to die of natural causes.
> 
> _"They have killed me so many times,"_ he said, referring to frequent rumours about his health that originate in the United States, usually in the anti-communist Cuban exile community in Miami.
> 
> ...


Castro laughs off CIA report he has Parkinson's(Source: Reuters)


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

CubaMark, scoff MacNutt with great care. Castro will someday die, as we all do. Then, he will be able to tell you that he was right in his prediction that Castro's demise was nearly here. So, even thought a year ago he said that Castro's death was near, he did not say exactly when. Thus, as always, he is right and we are either wrong or foolish for doubting his ability to foretell the future. Pax, mi amigo. Hasta luego.

For the Record -- I do NOT wish Parkinson's Disease upon anyone.


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