# Is it worth hopping over the border...



## spicyapple (Aug 17, 2006)

iPod touch $329 + taxes = $371.77

iPod touch (in Bellevue) $299 US + taxes = $318.46 US >> $328.59

One hour drive each way... and pocketing the touch at the border...

3 week wait vs less than a week...

decisions, decisions


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## Mississauga (Oct 27, 2001)

Sounds like it could be a nice drive!


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## däycüs mäximüs (Nov 30, 2002)

this is exactly what i did to get my first iPod.

just dispose of the box somehow, if the yanks decide to inspect.


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## Veej (Feb 16, 2006)

däycüs mäximüs said:


> this is exactly what i did to get my first iPod.
> 
> just dispose of the box somehow, if the yanks decide to inspect.


 The Yanks don't inspect when coming back to Canada its the Canadian Customs, why does Buffalo have the Touch in stock? and for $50.00 from Toronto to Buffalo I'd blow more on Gas, Casino, etc. But the Warranty how would that work, if something goes wrong could you just take it into a Canadian Apple store? If so then I think its worth it you get the Warranty in $370.00 instead of buying warranty and going over $400....


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

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## Veej (Feb 16, 2006)

HowEver said:


> US Customs & Immigration now has border guards that have the authority to inspect you and your car BEFORE you leave the United States, i..e, 10 metres from Canadian officers you encounter on the way into Canada.
> 
> They aren't looking for contraband products or substances, though.
> 
> This started shortly after September 11, 2001, at the Buffalo crossings.



So if you had products they won't care, thats the Canadians problem they guess right?


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

Sure: If you bring it back without declaring it, you can save 13% on the PST and GST. 

Why not go all the way though, and shoplift it? Then you'll get it for free. 

Same idea, only a matter of degree.


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## Fen (Nov 26, 2004)

It's a bit difficult to shoplift at the Apple Store. 

I'd go across the border, that's where I got my iPhone... not that I had much choice.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

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## aab01 (Aug 31, 2007)

Guess it depends if you want to spend the gas money. If gas costs as much where you live as it does where I live you will probably just break even. Might make for a nice day trip though


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## Veej (Feb 16, 2006)

What about Warranty on the phone? is it honoured at the Canadian Apple Store? or would you just have to drive upto Buffalo, and after you've unlocked it the would the warranty still apply..?


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## harrisjr (Aug 29, 2007)

I'm hoping that they don't hassle me at the border. I'm picking mine up on Monday. Has anyone had any problems?


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## madgunde (Mar 10, 2006)

Personally, the box and packaging is worth the money for me. I wouldn't want to discard it just to save 13-14%. I declared my iPhone when I came back from Buffalo and paid the $64 in PST & GST at customs. A small price to pay to keep the packaging and avoid any unnecessary stress.


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## aab01 (Aug 31, 2007)

Heh, I too am a box/packaging keeper. I actually contemplated taking it out of the box then mailing the box to myself. At that point I was like what is wrong with me - just declare the damn thing. I declared with the hope of getting to sneak through w/o having to pay tax but alas, not this trip. 

I am famous for keeping boxes and packaging of things, my friends constantly hassell me, I am sure I have every cell phone box of every phone I have ever owned and I most definitely kept my Macbook box, and camera box.. and wow I think I have a problem. Haha 



madgunde said:


> Personally, the box and packaging is worth the money for me. I wouldn't want to discard it just to save 13-14%. I declared my iPhone when I came back from Buffalo and paid the $64 in PST & GST at customs. A small price to pay to keep the packaging and avoid any unnecessary stress.


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## Oompa_Loompa (Nov 13, 2005)

Veej said:


> What about Warranty on the phone? is it honoured at the Canadian Apple Store? or would you just have to drive upto Buffalo, and after you've unlocked it the would the warranty still apply..?


Yes, I just called AppleCare and they said the warranty is international. Therefore, warranty is valid anywhere. Yippeee! Cant wait to get mine.... without email capabilities I really cant see the iPod Touch being worth it.... any opinions ?


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## Adam (Jun 28, 2003)

aab01 said:


> Heh, I too am a box/packaging keeper. I actually contemplated taking it out of the box then mailing the box to myself. At that point I was like what is wrong with me - just declare the damn thing.


nothing is wrong with you, you could've saved $60! That's what I plan on doing..

Adam


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## potato (Sep 12, 2007)

Keep the box. I've been reading the unlock guides and you need your IMEI info, which is only printed on the box?


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

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## potato (Sep 12, 2007)

Yeah :S Honestly, either declare it or don't... Either way throwing away that box really won't improve your chances of sneaking it across in any case...


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## Adam (Jun 28, 2003)

potato said:


> Yeah :S Honestly, either declare it or don't... Either way throwing away that box really won't improve your chances of sneaking it across in any case...


it actually will increase your chances significantly.. You bring a brand new iPhone in box across the border and don't declare it - if they search you and find the box and the receipt, what excuse have you got? Whereas if you mail the box to yourself and bring the iPhone back with you in your pocket, if they search you, all you need to tell them is that you bought it 2 months ago when it was first released and have already paid duty on it, or that your cousin brought it back for you as a gift, etc, etc.

Adam


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## potato (Sep 12, 2007)

And meanwhile you lose the manual, the box, everything inside, etc etc...

Personally I'd just pay the duties and be done with it. All in all the GST PST isn't TOO bad.


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## nutsngum (Jul 20, 2005)

i brought one back this week, told canadian customs and they didn't even make me pay!

Given, i got my iphone shipped to a UPS store in Niagara Falls (since I wanted the 4gb)


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## aab01 (Aug 31, 2007)

It's actually engraved on the back of your phone too the Serial and IMEI altho you do need the ICCD too I believe for activation.



potato said:


> Keep the box. I've been reading the unlock guides and you need your IMEI info, which is only printed on the box?


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## Todd (Oct 14, 2002)

*Illegal*

Since no one else seems to care, I'll be the first to point out that the topic of this message thread is illegal. Particularly, the messages from people on how to perform the crime.

I'm certain this was forbidden in the ehMac agreement you clicked "OK" to when you signed up.

Cross-border shopping is OK. Smuggling is illegal. We all want to be suave and sexy like Han Solo and his secret compartments onboard the Millenium Falcon, but there are rules in message boards that are there to prevent them from being ordered shut down.


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## Adam (Jun 28, 2003)

potato said:


> And meanwhile you lose the manual, the box, everything inside, etc etc...
> 
> Personally I'd just pay the duties and be done with it. All in all the GST PST isn't TOO bad.


I'm not talking about throwing away the box altogether, just mail it to yourself from the post office in Buffalo.. Personally I'm with the rest of you, I like to keep my boxes, instruction manuals, etc, I just don't want to pay duty!


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## madgunde (Mar 10, 2006)

aab01 said:


> It's actually engraved on the back of your phone too the Serial and IMEI altho you do need the ICCD too I believe for activation.


You can also look up the IMEI and ICCID numbers in Settings-->General-->About. Also an unactivated iPhone will display both numbers when tapping the "i" icon on the screen.

Of course, if it was only on the box, you could always just write it down or take a photocopy. So if you DO want to throw that lovely box away, go for it, you're not going to lose anything terribly important. But it really is a nice box.


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## spicyapple (Aug 17, 2006)

Correction, the drive is two hours each way... pretty much an entire day wasted plus gas and the actual driving bit. Gas prices as high as they are, I think I'll wait three weeks when it arrives at my local reseller.

The savings aren't enough for me to bother...  

Thanks for all the responses.

@actually Todd, Trevor brought it up first.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

Todd said:


> Since no one else seems to care, I'll be the first to point out that the topic of this message thread is illegal. Particularly, the messages from people on how to perform the crime.
> 
> I'm certain this was forbidden in the ehMac agreement you clicked "OK" to when you signed up.
> 
> Cross-border shopping is OK. Smuggling is illegal. We all want to be suave and sexy like Han Solo and his secret compartments onboard the Millenium Falcon, but there are rules in message boards that are there to prevent them from being ordered shut down.


You're hilarious. Not paying duties is akin to bringing an extra bottle of tequila from Mexico and not declaring it. Not a criminal offence, but simply a duties violation. Yea, let's shut the board down over this.


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## spicyapple (Aug 17, 2006)

Serious question... what if I buy my iPod touch in Alberta to save on provincial tax? Would this be a criminal offense or illegal smuggling, too?


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## Todd (Oct 14, 2002)

imachungry said:


> You're hilarious. Not paying duties is akin to bringing an extra bottle of tequila from Mexico and not declaring it. Not a criminal offence, but simply a duties violation. Yea, let's shut the board down over this.


As is typical, there's always one person in every message board who needs their ears twisted and their nose pointed straight at the facts.

Canada Customs Act - Smuggling

" 159. Every person commits an offence who smuggles or attempts to smuggle into Canada, whether clandestinely or not, any goods subject to duties, or any goods the importation of which is prohibited, controlled or regulated by or pursuant to this or any other Act of Parliament."

Do you regularly post to public message boards to show everyone your ignorance?

Maybe you consider smuggling Mexican tequila or an American iPod a trivial offense. I think you're probably right. But the *facts* are:

1) It's illegal
2) Discussing illegal activities is against the rules of the ehMac message board
3) Yes; ehMax could face criminal charges for running a message board that is used to plan illegal activity. An extreme possibility, I agree. But you can't dismiss it with rolley-eye emoticons.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

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## Todd (Oct 14, 2002)

spicyapple said:


> Serious question... what if I buy my iPod touch in Alberta to save on provincial tax? Would this be a criminal offense or illegal smuggling, too?


Firstly, it's perfectly legitimate for you to buy in the USA, pay your Canadian taxes when you bring it home, and then apply to the state government to have the state taxes you paid at the store refunded. You don't have to pay the state taxes.

I don't know about (provincial) laws requiring payment of provincial taxes for goods you import from another province. I would guess that there probably are and mostly intended for companies moving whole trucks full of stuff.


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## Todd (Oct 14, 2002)

HowEver said:


> Not to condone cross-border shopping without reporting, but smuggling involves, as was quoted, prohibited substances or goods.
> 
> There is no law against iPhones in Canada. Get a grip. People should pay their taxes on them. But they aren't going to go to jail for bringing one or two across the border and not declaring them.
> 
> ...


*... any goods subject to duties ...*

Can't you read or comprehend written words?? It's RIGHT THERE!

CRTC?? Where did you pull out the CRTC from this? Comparing to websites in the USA? We're talking about Canadian law! Way to vomit all over the subject and make people wipe it off to get back to the facts.

I totally, complete agree that the issue is minor. But that doesn't dismiss it.

Smuggling is illegal.
Discussing illegal activites is against the rules of the message board.

I can't make it any plainer than that. There will be no more replies from me in this message thread.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

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## Demosthenes X (Sep 23, 2004)

> CRTC?? Where did you pull out the CRTC from this? Comparing to websites in the USA? We're talking about Canadian law! Way to vomit all over the subject and make people wipe it off to get back to the facts.


The point was, this site is not hosted in Canada, so Canadian laws do not apply. The CRTC (nor any Canadian authority) has no ability to shut down websites hosted in other countries - the laws of the country where the servers are located apply.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

Todd said:


> As is typical, there's always one person in every message board who needs their ears twisted and their nose pointed straight at the facts.
> 
> Canada Customs Act - Smuggling
> 
> ...


You win the award for the stupidest, most anal retentive post ever made on a message board. Yes, I'm sure the RCMP will be closing down ehmac for this thread. :lmao: 

I went through a stop sign today when no one was looking. Are you upset about that as well? :baby:


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## champcar (Aug 29, 2007)

Todd

GET A LIFE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

Todd said:


> *... any goods subject to duties ...*
> 
> Can't you read or comprehend written words?? It's RIGHT THERE!


I just read the tail end of this thread and decided to throw my 2 cents in because people seem to be unable to distinguish between duty and taxes.
They are two totally different things.

The way the Canada Customs Act is written - it covers only goods subject to duty, not items subject to taxes.


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## madgunde (Mar 10, 2006)

krs is correct, the iPhone/iPod is not subject to duties, only taxes. So not declaring it at the border is basically the equivelant of paying someone cash under the table to avoid paying sales tax. Still illegal, but generally a common practice. Not condoning it, just clarifying.


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

krs said:


> I just read the tail end of this thread and decided to throw my 2 cents in because people seem to be unable to distinguish between duty and taxes.
> They are two totally different things.
> 
> The way the Canada Customs Act is written - it covers only goods subject to duty, not items subject to taxes.


You are correct of course, on items that are not subject to duty. However, as long as you are splitting hairs (and I admit I haven't done all the research) most goods are subject to duty, and the duty tariff rate on some of them is 0% from certain countries -- the goods still have to be declared on entry, and then then assessed at a $0 rate."Free" rated is not the same as exempt from reporting. 

Also, just because the product comes from the USA does not mean its country of manufacture is USA -- it would likely be China, which means that it is not covered under NAFTA. Apple LCD monitors imported from the USA are charged 6% duty, IIRC.

"All goods imported into Canada must be reported. Exceptions are listed in D3-1-1, Regulations Respecting the Importation, Transportation and Exportation of Goods." (The exceptions mainly have to do with passengers on international flights who are going straight back out of Canada again.)

Cellular telephones are Free rated according to the tariff code 8517.12.00 - -Telephones for cellular networks or for other wireless networks: Free

But the goods are also subject to the Provincial tax act (Social Services Tax act in BC quoted below), and to the act governing the GST, both of which make it an offense to destroy the receipt or to withhold the information that you are importing the goods.



> When tax is to be paid on property coming into British Columbia
> 
> 14 (1) Tax is payable under section 11 (3) as follows:
> ...
> ...


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## champcar (Aug 29, 2007)

I thought this was a Apple forum, not a Custom's info forum.

Moderator

Time to close this thread


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## madgunde (Mar 10, 2006)

champcar said:


> I thought this was a Apple forum, not a Custom's info forum.
> 
> Moderator
> 
> Time to close this thread


Why? This is useful information and it may be important for some of us to discuss it. I think the info we've discussed will help people make an informed decision and may convince some to declare when they might otherwise not have. Besides, last I checked, we were talking about the law with regards to purchasing and importing Apple products.


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## Deep Blue (Sep 16, 2005)

spicyapple said:


> Correction, the drive is two hours each way... pretty much an entire day wasted plus gas and the actual driving bit. Gas prices as high as they are, I think I'll wait three weeks when it arrives at my local reseller.
> 
> The savings aren't enough for me to bother...
> 
> ...


If you are from Vancouver why don't you just get it shipped to The Letter Carrier at Point Roberts and then go pick it up. That's a pretty short drive. I'm assuming your two hours each way was to go to Seattle (or maybe Bellingham) which doesn't make sense.


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## Deep Blue (Sep 16, 2005)

champcar said:


> I thought this was a Apple forum, not a Custom's info forum.
> 
> Moderator
> 
> Time to close this thread


Um...no, that's not how it works.

Members might want to modify some of their comments however.


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## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

wow...

where is this thread going?!?! hahaha... How this iPhone has everyone's undergarments in a knot!

The fact is that, you go across national borders to bring product back w/ no declaration, it's @ your own risk. I believe someone here detailed in a blog the cost associated w/ getting the iPhone across to this country legally. Wasn't too bad considering that a good smartphone will usually run in and around the $500 easily. Has anyone been to the Nokia stores?? NY and Chitown when you get the chance. About 3 yrs ago, I paid just over $250 for a Nokia 7610 , and that was @ cost! So, what Apple is asking now for the phones are a steal! *ESP the 4G*, if you can fund one.

In any case, Caveat Emptor my good ppls. 

And... someone mentioned this as well: even if you do declare, some days they don't even charge you! That has happened to my bud a few times, like this one time when he bought and brought back a Black Nokia 8801! Dude, that phone was $749 US @ the time (and I totally foced him to buy it), and the customs officer was seemingly happier than he was to play with it. 

Then the officer was like, "*Dude, have a good day man*".

Just like that...

Let's lighten up folks!



H!


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

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## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

oops!



Well, you get it HowEver!

H!


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