# Dell or Mac?



## macmac (Oct 22, 2006)

So I was going to get a 15"MBP (base model) until I saw this baby.

Components
PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7250 (2.0GHz/800Mhz FSB/2MB cache) 
OPERATING SYSTEM	Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Basic Edition	
SYSTEM COLOUR	Jet Black	
LCD AND CAMERA	Glossy, widescreen 15.4 inch display (1280x800)	edit
INTEGRATED WEBCAM	Integrated 2.0M Pixel Webcam
MEMORY	2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 at 667MHz	
HARD DRIVE	250GB SATA Hard Drive (5400RPM)	
GRAPHICS CARD	Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator X3100	
OPTICAL DRIVE	Blu-ray Disc Combo (DVD+/-RW + BD-ROM)	
WIRELESS CARD	Intel Next -Gen Wireless -N Mini -card	
BLUETOOTH	Dell Wireless 355 Bluetooth Internal (2.0 + Enhanced Data Rate)	
BATTERY OPTIONS	56Whr Lithium Ion Battery (6 cell)	
SOUND OPTIONS	Integrated Sound Blaster® Audigy™HD Software Edition	


The Dell comes with a Blue Ray Drive and is $800 cheaper..most of the specs are similar. Anyone owned a Dell before?


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## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

That machine also features a low resolution display and Integrated Graphics. It is also 400Mhz slower.


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## Silv (Mar 28, 2008)

But it's black!

My past experiences with Dell business laptops are that they're cheap and flimsy. They're not built to last, but as disposable appliances.


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

hahah 2mb L2 cache


oh yeah,

did i mention its A FREAKING DELL!!!! WITH VISTA!!!

I think this might be more stable:












Get a refurbed mbp. My girlfriend has a dell, you really really really really don't want one.


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## mpertz (May 14, 2008)

*Mbp!!!!*

I think you should go with the MBP. 

The CPU is better. Clock Speed and cache is better and also the ram speed is slower 800mhz MBP VS 667mhz Dell. Another thing is with the Dell you are going to get Vista, which is a nightmare. 

The Macbook Pro is a solid notebook. Design and reliability is far greater then a dell. 

In my opinion hands down Macbook Pro. I use both Macs and PCS and I enjoy using my mac a lot better then my pc. Less problems with my Mac then PC.

Hope this helps.


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## sae (Feb 13, 2008)

Obviously we'll all be biased here but I'd also say go for a mac. Vista is what made me switch (along with a long time curiosity)


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## wslctrc (Nov 13, 2007)

I recently ( October ) moved from PC to Mac and will NEVER go back to Windows. I was so impressed I bought a Mac to replace every PC we had in the house since then. My opinion is the same as anyone else's - just an opinion - but that is what you wanted and if you have any choice in the matter - MBP. As above noted the hardware is better and the software wins hands down. I got a full featured copy of OSX with my Macs , not a restore disc that you would get with Dell. JMPO.


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## macmac (Oct 22, 2006)

As stated in a previous post, the issue here is that Dell offers a Blue Ray Player. I just chose a bottom of the line Dell, im sure if i build another one i can get one with a higher cpu. Buying a 15" MBP, v.s buying a less expensive Dell with a Blue Ray drive. I don't understand why apple doesn't offer BR drives yet. People are buying macs, and in about a year or less they'll probably make the transition to a BD. So you spend all this money this year, only to be outdated next year. That's the problem... whereas a Dell for all intense and purposes will get the job done, and has a BD drive for movies etc.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

No matter how new it is, a Dell is still a PC and is just as vulnerable to viruses as any other PC, Vista or not. In fact, I would think an older PC running XP would be a more sought-after computer than a new one running Vista. If you must get a PC, I'd get the cheapest one you can find on eBay. Of course, then it probably comes with viruses pre-loaded. Nah, I'd stick with stick with the MBP, to be honest. There's often a reason people pay more for quality.


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## Heart (Jan 16, 2001)

As I hear _Genuine Windows Vista™ Home *Basic* Edition_ is not a full featured or complete operating system, you need to upgrade to the next one, whatever they call it.

If BlueRay is a feature you want then make sure you match it with a better quality resolution/screen.

Does BlueRay need a specific amount of computing power?

You really need to re-quote the Dell to more closely compare features and then find out the price.

How many years do you want to get out of the machine?


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

macmac said:


> As stated in a previous post, the issue here is that Dell offers a Blue Ray Player. I just chose a bottom of the line Dell, im sure if i build another one i can get one with a higher cpu. Buying a 15" MBP, v.s buying a less expensive Dell with a Blue Ray drive. I don't understand why apple doesn't offer BR drives yet. People are buying macs, and in about a year or less they'll probably make the transition to a BD. So you spend all this money this year, only to be outdated next year. That's the problem... whereas a Dell for all intense and purposes will get the job done, and has a BD drive for movies etc.


Because Blu-Ray's days are numbered. Just like DVD's and CD's. People today are increasingly going direct on-line for their music and movies and downloading to their hard drives. Blu-Ray is just another middle-man. Fancier, yes, but not fancy enough to replace your whole DVD collection with.


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## macmac (Oct 22, 2006)

fjnmusic said:


> Because Blu-Ray's days are numbered. Just like DVD's and CD's. People today are increasingly going direct on-line for their music and movies and downloading to their hard drives. Blu-Ray is just another middle-man. Fancier, yes, but not fancy enough to replace your whole DVD collection with.


I see. Funny I download most of what I watch as well. Maybe ur right. I actually picked another Dell with specs closer to that of the mac. Here they are below. With a Blue Ray drive it is $2049. MORE expensive than the MBP. I'll have to re-contact my cousin and see if he still wants me to get him the Dell or the MBP. Not sure how important the Blue Ray is for him... 

Components
PROCESSOR	Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T8300 (2.4GHz/800Mhz FSB, 3MB Cache)	
OPERATING SYSTEM	Genuine Windows Vista™ Ultimate (PRODUCT) RED™	
(PRODUCT) RED	(PRODUCT) RED™	
LCD AND CAMERA	High Resolution glossy widescreen 15.4 inch LCD(1680x1050) & 2MP Camera	
MEMORY	3GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz (2 Dimms)	
HARD DRIVE	320GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive	
GRAPHICS CARD	256MB NVIDIA® GeForce® 8600M GT	
OPTICAL DRIVE	Slot Load Blu -ray Disc (BD/DVD/CD read/write)	
WIRELESS CARD	Intel Next-Gen Wireless-N Mini-card	
BATTERY OPTIONS	56 WHr 6-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery	
SOUND OPTIONS	Integrated Sound Blaster Audigy HD Software Edition	
Essentials


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## Sualocin (Nov 7, 2007)

Dude, it comes with Vista...and it's a Dell.
There's your answer right there.


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## yendor4100 (Jan 31, 2008)

I've had 2 DELLs in the past and had no problems with either of them - except for the stupid 'restore disc' thingy Dell does.
But now that I moved for PC to MAC - I will NEVER go back!!


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## seymorerage (Feb 28, 2008)

Get the mac and if you really need a blueray player get a ps3.


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## Carl (Jun 7, 2003)

I thought, when I read the post, that the the decision was down to an Intel Core 2 Duo with a Blue Ray player. Nothing about an OS decision. You can do whatever you want in the privacy of your own home can't you?


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## Macinguelph (Oct 27, 2007)

Aside from the obvious answers regarding Dell and Vista, I'm slightly amused by the question and that it was posted here. Imagine finding a Dell/Vista forum and asking about a MacBook.....

No ill will intended, just an observation.


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

Dell, should be boycotted...the have continually laid Canadians off to move to India. A friend of mine is due with his second kid, and getting married in June and was just laid off.

Besides, it's running vista and you actually have the gaul to compare it to a Mac Book? You're kidding right?


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## keebler27 (Jan 5, 2007)

macmac said:


> I see. Funny I download most of what I watch as well. Maybe ur right. I actually picked another Dell with specs closer to that of the mac. Here they are below. With a Blue Ray drive it is $2049. MORE expensive than the MBP. I'll have to re-contact my cousin and see if he still wants me to get him the Dell or the MBP. Not sure how important the Blue Ray is for him...
> 
> Components
> PROCESSOR	Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T8300 (2.4GHz/800Mhz FSB, 3MB Cache)
> ...


do your cousin a favour and order a refurb'd mbp. if he really needs BR, the players are starting to come down. i thought i read that apple was trying to work out heat issues with BR drives, but i guess that would make me wonder why dell is doing it. interesting. maybe apple will update their systems at WWDC.


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

I just went through a nightmare with a Dell Dimension desktop running Windows XP. A friend asked me to help her with it because the keyboard was acting flakey and there were all kinds of messages popping up at boot-up.

It took me two days to fix this thing and I tell you, it was like fighting a dragon. Every time I thought I had the upper hand, the dragon would launch another fire-breathing counter attack.

I went through three keyboards to try to fix the keyboard problem. Turned out the drivers were corrupted. But I couldn't just replace the drivers. I ended up re-installing XP. Oh, and I only had XP Pro disks which I found out you can't install with an XP Home license only after I went halfway through the install procedure.

Many times, I was tempted to throw the damn thing in the garbage and tell my friend it just blew up. It was only through persistence, trial and error and sheer force that I got this thing working.

Next time she calls me, my answer will be "Buy a Mac".


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

macmac said:


> As stated in a previous post, the issue here is that Dell offers a Blue Ray Player. I just chose a bottom of the line Dell, im sure if i build another one i can get one with a higher cpu. Buying a 15" MBP, v.s buying a less expensive Dell with a Blue Ray drive. I don't understand why apple doesn't offer BR drives yet. People are buying macs, and in about a year or less they'll probably make the transition to a BD. So you spend all this money this year, only to be outdated next year. That's the problem... whereas a Dell for all intense and purposes will get the job done, and has a BD drive for movies etc.


I use Dell for the office. I have Servers, Laptops, Desktops, never had a problem. They have been running for years. Someone metioned here that the Dell laptops were flimsy, well the same can be said (because I have seen it) with MacBooks. If you take of it properly then they all last. But because you want a Blue-Ray drive then maybe you have made your choice.

But you know are asking the question in ehMac.ca right?


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## James3967 (Aug 30, 2004)

I had a Dell laptop before I got a Mac. The "Dell" piece of it was fine - no problems with hardware.

However, I did have issues with spyware, viruses and serious slowdown.

I think my mac is probably about 5 years old now and is in pretty decent shape. Lower Ram slot failed, but other than that, its been fine.

Dell - replace in 2 years tptptptp 
Mac - replace in 5 years


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## Brianl (Apr 6, 2008)

I have recently switched from pc to mac. I still use IBM(Lenovo), and Dell as I have need to use quickbooks. As for quality difference, mac is far superior, and a lot more friendly. My IBM T61 has Vista Ultimate, and is not overly friendly to use. It also has the potential for more viruses, and Trojans.

My vote would be to avoid a pc with any software unless absolutely necessary.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

Brianl said:


> As for quality difference, mac is far superior, and a lot more friendly. My IBM T61 has Vista Ultimate, and is not overly friendly to use. It also has the potential for more viruses, and Trojans.


I don't know what you are talking about, I am Vista on an everyday basis at work and at home, and I have never had any problems what so ever and I develop on it.

I also have a MBP and I use it alot as well, so I am not bias one way or another.

I have a customer who is a long time Mac user, when he switched to Leopard he hated it, he used your exact terms "not overly friendly to use." I told him to relax it is new and get use to it and he will love it. The same can be said about Vista. Ask me to switch my work computer back to XP and I will quit.


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## Pat McCrotch (Jun 19, 2006)

If you were just getting a tower then I'd say consider the Dell. I remember finding a 2.6Ghz Quad core expandable to 8GB memory huge hard disk and such for 999$ on future shop. Towers can be a little worth it.

But for a laptop, I must say Mac is the easy winner. Sure, you pay a little more for a Mac in my opinion, but: the battery/power management is are fantastic, the keyboard is fantastic, the responsiveness of going in to sleep mode when closing the «clamshell» is amazing, the OS is more pleasant to use etc... Mac really does know how to design laptops.

I own a simple Macbook so if you ask me what I'd choose between a dell and the grand daddy of laptops, the MPB, its no contest in my opinion.

Plus, do you really have the high def setup in your house to take advantage of blue-ray? If you have 7000$ worth of surround sound and high def television then it makes a difference but I bet you that if I played a regular DVD in your laptop as opposed to blue ray, you couldn't tell me which was which.


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## spitfire (Feb 26, 2008)

macmac said:


> So I was going to get a 15"MBP (base model) until I saw this baby.
> 
> Components
> PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7250 (2.0GHz/800Mhz FSB/2MB cache)
> ...


You are asking that question on the most MAC biased forum on the planet. Obviously the answer will be the mac but I would ask what you will mostly going to be using your laptop for. Depends what where and how much power you need. Who ever said that its 400 mhz slower - really thats a weak argument. 

I personally I can't say without what your usage will be directed at. Dont take bullsh1t answers like 

OMG VIRUSES
OMG ITS VISTA
OMG ITS STILL A PC

Choose wisely and choose according to your budget. Dell is not a bad company but sometimes people get computers that were put together on a Friday or Monday so they get a ****ty experience with them. 

Cheers mate!


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## ruffdeezy (Mar 17, 2008)

I'm trying to get rid of 2 dell's right now after switching to mac. This probably isn't the place for a non biased answer either. What are you really gonna use the blu ray player on a laptop for anyway?


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## jeepguy (Apr 4, 2008)

wslctrc said:


> I recently ( October ) moved from PC to Mac and will NEVER go back to Windows. I was so impressed I bought a Mac to replace every PC we had in the house since then. My opinion is the same as anyone else's - just an opinion - but that is what you wanted and if you have any choice in the matter - MBP. As above noted the hardware is better and the software wins hands down. I got a full featured copy of OSX with my Macs , not a restore disc that you would get with Dell. JMPO.


Macs are like Tattoos, you can't only get one. 

Here's something else to consider, Mac's hold their value better than other laptops, this especially true of MBP.


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## heebie (Dec 28, 2007)

Perhaps you should wait until WWDC. You never know they might decide to roll out Blu-ray...


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## jeepguy (Apr 4, 2008)

macmac said:


> So I was going to get a 15"MBP (base model) until I saw this baby.
> 
> Components
> PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7250 (2.0GHz/800Mhz FSB/2MB cache)
> ...


This configuration will not play Blu-Ray movies, you have to upgrade graphics to nvidia 8400gs which is HDCP compliant and has hardware H264 acceleration.


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## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

macmac said:


> As stated in a previous post, the issue here is that Dell offers a Blue Ray Player.


So what? What good is a Blu Ray player on a machine with a 1280x800 screen? You need 1920x1080 to take full advantage of Blu Ray.


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## spitfire (Feb 26, 2008)

You will have problem outputting 1080P video.. I think you may have problems outputting 1080i video as well with that integrated card. 

MBPs on the other hand can't display 1080P (with the exception of the 17 inch model) on their native screens but they can certainly output full 1080P res video because they are equipped with the 8600 and providing your hardware supports the P factor then you are good to go.

Don't say it doesn't really make a difference between 1080i and 1080p I will hit you haha! There is a significant difference.


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## ..........? (Dec 25, 2005)

They are both great machines. Dells aren't as bad as what everyone is saying. Both OS is great. If someone want to steal your private info no OS can save you if you don't be careful on the internet.

Buy the computer that will suit what you need it to do not the one that has bell and whistle you don't use.


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## spitfire1945 (May 17, 2008)

..........? said:


> They are both great machines. Dells aren't as bad as what everyone is saying. Both OS is great. If someone want to steal your private info no OS can save you if you don't be careful on the internet.
> 
> Buy the computer that will suit what you need it to do not the one that has bell and whistle you don't use.


QFT

btw I m the original spitfire (not that anyone cares)


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

They are not both great machines. Dell is notorious for putting in the absolute cream of the crap parts in their machines. Just go pick up a Dell 1520 Inspiron, I can guarantee, that it will fall apart within a couple of months.


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## spitfire1945 (May 17, 2008)

Adrian. said:


> They are not both great machines. Dell is notorious for putting in the absolute cream of the crap parts in their machines. Just go pick up a Dell 1520 Inspiron, I can guarantee, that it will fall apart within a couple of months.


Well apparently so is the case with HP, but their higher end machines in the 2k 3k range are orgasmically brilliant and run flawlessly. Same goes for Acer. The lower end laptops are filled with more garbage than your local waste management depot but the Acer Ferarri laptops are a God's gift to humanity.

Inspirons are the cheap laptops off course it will fall apart in months. Thats what the price point is designed for. Yet people fail to understand that and they suffer in the long term.


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## ruffdeezy (Mar 17, 2008)

Adrian. said:


> They are not both great machines. Dell is notorious for putting in the absolute cream of the crap parts in their machines. Just go pick up a Dell 1520 Inspiron, I can guarantee, that it will fall apart within a couple of months.


I think they are designed to fall apart after the warranty expires. My battery died 1 month after the warranty expired. 
When I upgraded the ram on my dell laptop, i had to take the case apart and the keyboard off, took an hour, with a mac, it takes 10 mins


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

Adrian. said:


> They are not both great machines. Dell is notorious for putting in the absolute cream of the crap parts in their machines. Just go pick up a Dell 1520 Inspiron, I can guarantee, that it will fall apart within a couple of months.


funny for crap my Dell Latitude C610 is a great laptop despite being 3 years old and being dropped over a dozen times. In fact the Dell has been the best used laptop I've ever bought and has outlasted 2 used iBook's that succumbed to the dreaded logic board problems that plagued iBooks in the last couple of years. Actually I just downgraded a Inspiron 1720 for a friend from Vista to XP Pro and the quality of the hardware wasn't all that bad. One more thing about my Dell C610 when it comes to upgrading hard drives and memory it can't get any easier than that laptop, I'm dreading upgrading the dying hard drive in my current iBook which according to ifixit's guide is an easy 29 steps.

Laterz


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## spitfire1945 (May 17, 2008)

see? everyone has their own weakness. Don't set your minds on the fact that Apple products are superior. Thats foolish.


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

spitfire1945 said:


> see? everyone has their own weakness. Don't set your minds on the fact that Apple products are superior. Thats foolish.


I'm not. In my experience Dell is garbage. I love HP's quality. I think lower end hp's have better quality than macbooks.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

I wouldn't have any idea of Dell's or HP's quality of late, but I'm here to tell you that it's quite possible to function -- even excel -- in a Windows world using ONLY Macs. I want for NOTHING.*

*because I'm not a time-waster, sorry I mean gamer. And if I was one, I'd buy a Wii.


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

^^^
Everyone seems to makie their own share of crud these days - not only Dell with their flimsy machines, and HP with their odd incompatibilities, and Acer which runs hot and cold, but Macs as well, with various battery explosions, bad keyboards, etc... All of the manufacturers are in a mad rush to push as many units out the door these days, so they can sell them at the lowest price - and like the North American car, you get the various ailments and defects of such overproduction of machines made by the lowest bidder and assembled by the most enslaved workers.

I do not know why someone would want a laptop with a Blu-Ray drive in it, since the screens obviously can not support the ultimate resolution of a Blu-Ray disk. If you can not see the graininess of Blu-Ray on a 52" TV, then it is overkill on a laptop. But some people have to have the techno-toys.

The selection of a laptop should be based on such things as usability, operating system, software compatibility, durability... If the prime focus of the purchase is for Blu-Ray - then one should buy a dedicated Blu-Ray player, and not waste the time with an expensive laptop that will not be able to take advantage of the format.

As for the difference between Dell and Mac - with a Dell you are stuck with either the obsolete but barely usable Windoze XP, or with the current but incompatible Fi$ta; while with a Mac, you get OSX, which is a superior OS in all regards. I think the choice is clear, and for those times that one is wont of watching a Blu-Ray disk - one can easily connect an external Blu-Ray disk to a Mac via FireWire - which is a superior connection than the crummy USB you are stuck with on a Dell. With the amount of data that Blu-Ray needs to push, USB, even at the highest speeds, will be brought to it's knees loading the first menu...

Plus, the small form factor Blu-Ray drives have been champions at failing quickly, as the "Blue" laser diode runs quite hot and is prone to premature failure in the smaller casings -though this situation has been improving. Apple actually demonstrated their Blu-Ray compatibility, and a few machines were shown - but I think they held back because of the limited lifespan of the Blue laser diode. (It was only five years ago that the blue laser diode attained an MTBF of 100 hours, and three years ago they broke the 1000 hour mark (so similar life to a light bulb in the house; it is now on the order of 10,000 hours in larger players, which is a suitable lifespan for consumer equipment. Laboratory style systems do not use Blu-Ray, but rather, IBM's Blue-Laser system because of the superiority of a real laser system, but that system is not even portable enough to place into a house, let alone a laptop that would be twice the size on an Osborne...)


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## spitfire1945 (May 17, 2008)

chas_m said:


> And if I was one, I'd buy a Wii.


480P FTLOOOOOOOOOSE!!!

+1 for EvanPitts BTW


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## boxlight (Mar 20, 2008)

The Dell doesn't run Mac OS X. That's what you're buying when you get a Mac, it's all about the Mac experience, and Dell can't give you that.


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## spitfire1945 (May 17, 2008)

boxlight said:


> The Dell doesn't run Mac OS X. That's what you're buying when you get a Mac, it's all about the Mac experience, and Dell can't give you that.


That is a very vague response not to mention its not a legitimate thing to say to the OP nor is a strong argument at all mate. 

Certainly as a counter argument I can go upto OP and say look go get your self a Psystar OpenMac computer which comes with the same Leopard OS X that cames with the mac and is equally stable as it is on a mac. There I just experience the Mac on a different piece of hardware.

Then what?


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## mc3251 (Sep 28, 2007)

*8 month old Mac newbie*

Many mentions of bias on this forum. Well, yeah, but what does one expect given where the question is being asked? Natch most people here will say Mac is the better choice-it's a choice all of us have already made multiple times.
This is so obvious that it makes me thing that the OP is getting exactly the answer he is seeking. :>)

I have two Macs-converted both of my office computers at home back in October. This decision is mostly about the operating system, IMO. I ran a large IT department in a high tech company for 3 years that used almost all Dell-the equipment was fine-fairly good build quality and pretty easy to work on. For PC techs, "easy to work on" is a very important point, which speaks volumes. In recent years Dell has had big issues on the customer service side-I've had friends who have had nightmares trying to deal with support and warrantee issues.

It all depends on the type of user you are. I don't want to mess with hardware (or the OS for that matter)-I converted because I wanted something that would just work-and the Macs have met that need over and over. The Leopard upgrade was a piece of cake, with virtually no learning curve after the fact (I'm probably not taking full advantage of Leopard)-it's been easy.

As a business/home user the single biggest benefit for me from coverting to Mac is the absence of malicious code-viruses etc. The second biggest benefit has been the ease of home networking and file access-it's a piece of cake. 

The biggest adjustments for me have been the (less?) (different?) SW choices for Mac; and the less flexible approach that Apple takes to photos and music with iPhoto and iTunes. This said, I have so far found SW that works just fine, and once I was willing to get "with the program" on iTunes and iPhoto and not try to make them run like a windows machine, I was fine.

I love the way these things hold their value-that's a major cost factor.

The Blu Ray drive, IMO is no basis on which to buy a computer in any case, for reasons already cited.

/m


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

spitfire1945 said:


> That is a very vague response not to mention its not a legitimate thing to say to the OP nor is a strong argument at all mate.
> 
> Certainly as a counter argument I can go upto OP and say look go get your self a Psystar OpenMac computer which comes with the same Leopard OS X that cames with the mac and is equally stable as it is on a mac. There I just experience the Mac on a different piece of hardware.
> 
> Then what?


You sure about that?

OSX is designed to run off of static hardware components. Deviating from that hardware cannot provide similar stability.


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

Not to mention the limited lifespan of the Psystar machine when it comes to OSX. It wouldn't take much on Apple's part to make an OSX update "obsolete" the machine - turning it into yet another pile of junk running M$ Fi$ta...


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## Quicksilver G4 (Jan 29, 2008)

And, VISTA BASIC!!! AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!! BASIC BASIC!!!! NOT PRO!!!!


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## Elric (Jul 30, 2005)

spitfire1945 said:


> That is a very vague response not to mention its not a legitimate thing to say to the OP nor is a strong argument at all mate.
> 
> Certainly as a counter argument I can go upto OP and say look go get your self a Psystar OpenMac computer which comes with the same Leopard OS X that cames with the mac and is equally stable as it is on a mac. There I just experience the Mac on a different piece of hardware.
> 
> Then what?


But their hardware is known to fail, is their warranty a full year like Macs?


EDIT: Their website isn't even working at the moment, do you trust them?


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## wslctrc (Nov 13, 2007)

mc3251 said:


> Many mentions of bias on this forum. Well, yeah, but what does one expect given where the question is being asked? Natch most people here will say Mac is the better choice-it's a choice all of us have already made multiple times.
> This is so obvious that it makes me thing that the OP is getting exactly the answer he is seeking. :>)
> 
> I have two Macs-converted both of my office computers at home back in October. This decision is mostly about the operating system, IMO. I ran a large IT department in a high tech company for 3 years that used almost all Dell-the equipment was fine-fairly good build quality and pretty easy to work on. For PC techs, "easy to work on" is a very important point, which speaks volumes. In recent years Dell has had big issues on the customer service side-I've had friends who have had nightmares trying to deal with support and warrantee issues.
> ...




These are my feelings/experiences exactly. Replaced every pc in our home/office with a mac.


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## jeepguy (Apr 4, 2008)

Adrian. said:


> I'm not. In my experience Dell is garbage. I love HP's quality. I think lower end hp's have better quality than macbooks.


last company I worked for, we ton's of hp's go bad, we ended up switching to Toshiba Tectra's. Most of the low end laptops are not made to handle the abuse of day to day use, they are made for home use, surfing from the kitchen etc.

When you get into the mid to high range, they are build better, more for corparate use. Macs fall into this catagory, as well as Dell XPS, and others. 

I think it really comes down to do you want OSX or Vista/XP, but I think we all know that OSX wins here.


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## spitfire1945 (May 17, 2008)

EvanPitts said:


> Not to mention the limited lifespan of the Psystar machine when it comes to OSX. It wouldn't take much on Apple's part to make an OSX update "obsolete" the machine - turning it into yet another pile of junk running M$ Fi$ta...


Remember for every 1 security developer there are 10 reverse engineering hackers trying to break the system sitting somewhere in remote isolated area of Kosovo.

Remember that. I just can wait till everyone here from the Mac OS X faith converts everyone else into a MacDrone and Macs become popular and everyone starts to realize how many security exploits it has once everyone starts to hack the OS...

You ask me "Then why did you buy a Mac you idiot". To them I say I bought it for myself and not for others. It makes MY LIFE easier in certain ways and makes it much harder in others and I won't assume it will do the same for you. Here is what I have experienced and if you feel confident then go for it and buy a mac.

Here is what I see on this forum: 

NO! MACS ARE THE BEST
ONCE YOU GO MAC YOU DON'T GO BACK
BECOME AN APPLE FAN AND YOU WILL GET NEWSLETTERS DESIGNED BY SOME METRO SEXUAL SITTING IN THE HEART OF NEW YORK
MACS ARE STABLE
MACS WILL MAKE YOUR LIFE EASIER
GET A MAC OR YOU WILL SUFFER
MICROSOFT IS THE DEVIL

sorry if the caps seem offending to you but thats the kinda vibe I get sometimes, not only here but also on youtube other forums.. it seems that the fanbase for Apple is following Steve Jobs methods of running a company.

EDIT: Also working in the retail business for several years I have seen more people choose brands like Toshiba Qosmio over a Macbook Pro and diss the brand right in front of my face than people coming in to buy Macs.

EDIT (again): Id like to share an excerpt of a conversation I had with daysofstatic. He is on this forums. His description will say "A friend lend me his mac" that friend was me. I gave him my mac to test drive then he went out an bought it later.



> rob:	im on mymac
> rob:	im debating about whoopin out the ol pc
> rob:	os x has lost its novelty
> dinosaurabh:	how come?
> ...


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

spitfire1945 said:


> btw I m the original spitfire (not that anyone cares)


I _don't_ care, but why, in the span of eight minutes, does one post in the same thread under two handles?


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## spitfire1945 (May 17, 2008)

Bjornbro said:


> I _don't_ care, but why, in the span of eight minutes, does one post in the same thread under two handles? http://www.websmileys.com/sm/crazy/146.gif


I got sick of the older account cause it was lagging somehow. So I made a new one.


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

Oh, I see.


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

spitfire1945 said:


> Remember for every 1 security developer there are 10 reverse engineering hackers trying to break the system sitting somewhere in remote isolated area of Kosovo...


Quite a ramble... My point is that Apple can, at a whim, issue an update which would close the door on the Psystar machine. Sure, it might be hacked open once again, but at great difficulty. Regular users will not buy a Psystar because, face it, you can not run OSX straight up, out of the box, on that machine. I requires hacks to even install, further hacks to get the EFI to work. More of a premade machine for OS86 hackers than for any regular users.

As for OSX versus Windoze; really, every version of MacOS has been superior to Windoze in ease of use and power. I converted to Mac because I need to deal with photographs and graphics - things that are very real weaknesses on Windoze. I know one can do those things on Windoze; but one ends up with having to use proprietary secret formats, or having to pay big money for special programs - to do what is intrinsic on the Mac. Same thing with pretty much everything else I do with computers. For that matter, DOS is superior to Windoze for things like work processing...

One has to recognize that most people have no actual clue. They just follow the mantra that "Windoze is easy to use because it is graphics". But then, one ends up spending three days trying to get Windoze to install and work - while with systems like OSX, you can be up and doing actual productive things inside of an hour. But it is also personal preference; and personally, I have always known that Windoze is garbage - ever since I had to suffer with version 2 - and really, it has barely improved because it is still slow, and does things odd, and has the worst user interface ever devised. And that is saying something because in the old days, I used to use dain bramaged machines like the Nova IV... But again, it is preference.

The OP was not saying anything about security... OSX is not immune to security flaws, but since the system is built around a security minded kernel, it is a much harder nut to break. OSX obviously has flaws, otherwise there would never be a Security Update in the Software Update menu... However, OSX is less prone to being ransacked when doing things, like reading a document or downloading a spreadsheet - unlike the products of the Evil Empire. The OP was not asking to compare the security virtues or potential hackability of a Dell versus a Mac. Face it, even if tomorrow, someone released a half million viruses and trojans aimed at destroying Mac systems - they'd still have a hell of a long way to go to catch up with the virtual pantheon of Windoze viruses, trojans, spybots, malware, and inherent Windoze and M$ software bugs...

He was trying to compare a Mac sans Blu-Ray versus a Dell avec Blu-Ray. If one really wants Blu-Ray, then Dell is obviously the winner. But the users simply pointed out a number of advantages that the Mac has - as well as the obvious, that the Dell machine, even though it has a Blu-Ray drive, can not possibly take real advantage of the Blu-Ray format because of things like screen size, etc...

It is less of an OSX versus M$ Fi$ta thing - though that is important - than the fact that even on a 19" screen, you will not get much mileage out of Blu-Ray.


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## spitfire1945 (May 17, 2008)

EvanPitts said:


> Quite a ramble... My point is that Apple can, at a whim, issue an update which would close the door on the Psystar machine. Sure, it might be hacked open once again, but at great difficulty. Regular users will not buy a Psystar because, face it, you can not run OSX straight up, out of the box, on that machine. I requires hacks to even install, further hacks to get the EFI to work. More of a premade machine for OS86 hackers than for any regular users.


err... Psystar ships their computers preloaded with Leopard.. but other than that I won't get into the whole Windoze (you stole that word from me lmfao) vs Lackintosh argument because quite frankly.. well.. you know what happens when we all get there.


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

spitfire1945 said:


> err... Psystar ships their computers preloaded with Leopard..


Perloaded with perhaps 10.5.2. Apple could easily release 10.5.3 that would shut it down, and then make other software like QuickTime and iTunes all need the .3 update. Then the Psystar would be in a time warp, far short of the ultimate release of Leopard (before they go to 10.6.0).



> but other than that I won't get into the whole Windoze (you stole that word from me lmfao)


If you were using the term prior to the first time I had to use M$ Windoze, ie. 1987 - then you had prior use.



> ... vs Lackintosh argument because quite frankly.. well.. you know what happens when we all get there.


Yeah - OSX comes out on top on all counts, except for the sheer number of viruses, trojans, fatal bugs, BSODs and total number of GBs walloped by the OS.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

spitfire1945 said:


> err... Psystar ships their computers preloaded with Leopard.. but other than that I won't get into the whole Windoze (you stole that word from me lmfao) vs Lackintosh argument because quite frankly.. well.. you know what happens when we all get there.


You seem to have some issues, which is not uncommon for people who only recently began posting here, but why such intensity? If you like Macs or don't, or worship MicroSoft or not, what does it matter? Why does it bother you that others seem quite satisfied with their Apple products? 

Macs are not flawless, but they are a hell of a lot more flawless than anything I've seen so far that uses a Windows operating system of any sort. Until I hear of a virus-free PC, I'm not going to be convinced that Psystar or Dell or HP or anyone else can come up with a better operating system.


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

Spitfire...now I am no shrink or anything but I would suppose that you have low self esteem and have developed some sort of superiority complex where you have externalized and segregated those who are justified in their apple purchases and those who are not. You are, of course, within the former group.

I would presume that you will respond to my comment rather emotionally and viciously.


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## spitfire1945 (May 17, 2008)

I won't. I don't have a low self esteem issue either, I was brought up rather quite nicely. 

All I want is neutrality and not biasness. I have defended Macs agaisnt the fanfare of MS boys (trust me I know a lot of them) and I have defended PCs agasint a lot of Mac fanboys. It just feels wrong sometimes. Please go ahead boast the mac you have (I do all the time) I don't care but please be considerate about other companies. M$ isn't that bad at all. Sure they have made some mistakes but you can't go around saying stuff like that. Yes, I still do hate Vista or Fista as they call it. 

I like macs.. (to a certain degree) infact I had the nickname "Macboy" back at Futureshop because I sold the most macs with grace and satisfaction. But.. urgh.. forget it I am not going anywhere. I just hate fanboyism, not to say that I am seeing it from you guys but I just hate fanboyism in general. 

Anyways, back to the topic. Bluray is good in a laptop as long as you have a video card that can output a full 1080p resultion either through straigh HDMI or through DVI-HDMI adapter. my recommendation would be to get an overpriced sony with a Blu-Ray.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

Well that certainly makes sense.


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

spitfire1945 said:


> I won't. I don't have a low self esteem issue either, I was brought up rather quite nicely.
> 
> All I want is neutrality and not biasness. I have defended Macs agaisnt the fanfare of MS boys (trust me I know a lot of them) and I have defended PCs agasint a lot of Mac fanboys. It just feels wrong sometimes. Please go ahead boast the mac you have (I do all the time) I don't care but please be considerate about other companies. M$ isn't that bad at all. Sure they have made some mistakes but you can't go around saying stuff like that. Yes, I still do hate Vista or Fista as they call it.
> 
> ...


I myself am not fan of fanboys, pardon the language. However, people on this thread are giving very reasoned and logical responses to why the macbook pro is a better option. When people start saying "Macs rule!!!! Alls PC's suck!" well then there is very little rationale behind that. Too general to even be counted. I myself said that Dells are hunks of junk. I have had 3 Dells in my lifetime (as personal computers) 5 if I include business computers and they have all been junk. I have had the bottom of the line inspirons to the XPS and they were all crap. I am not including the operating system at all.

I equally said that I enjoy HPs. They are solid built computers and with XP and the appropriate security software is a very stable computer. Whether I would take that over a new macbook pro that is a different story.

For this person's use, a macbook pro, with better screen resolution, better L2 cache, better processor and better vram for an similar price as the Dell seems like the best option for him. It appears Dell has continued its trend of placing "hot" items into a computer that is not at all prepared to optimize its use. With the macbook pro he would be buying a far superior computer hardware wise and os wise, indeed, as you have already agreed upon: Vista is junk.

I have yet to see much "fanboyism" here as you put it. Only rationalized arguments.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

That certainly makes sense, too.


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## spitfire1945 (May 17, 2008)

Adrian. said:


> I myself am not fan of fanboys, pardon the language. However, people on this thread are giving very reasoned and logical responses to why the macbook pro is a better option. When people start saying "Macs rule!!!! Alls PC's suck!" well then there is very little rationale behind that. Too general to even be counted. I myself said that Dells are hunks of junk. I have had 3 Dells in my lifetime (as personal computers) 5 if I include business computers and they have all been junk. I have had the bottom of the line inspirons to the XPS and they were all crap. I am not including the operating system at all.
> 
> I equally said that I enjoy HPs. They are solid built computers and with XP and the appropriate security software is a very stable computer. Whether I would take that over a new macbook pro that is a different story.
> 
> ...


fair enough.. I guess I can't really argue with a point so well put.


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