# Anyone with sleep problems? Solutions and discussion.



## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Have any ehMacians had any sleep problems that got resolved?

For quite some time now, I haven't been able to get a descent sleep and wake up feeling rested. Mrs. ehMax has been noticing that I really toss and turn a lot and have been snoring like a broken chainsaw. I've finally got around to scheduling a doctor's appointment for a visit and possibly a referral to a sleep clinic for testing. 

Has anyone gone through this process? Is the only solution to get one of those storm trooper looking masks? Has anyone used one of those, and did it help? Does anyone know of other solutions that are available to improve sleep?

I try to get a decent amount of exercise, and have shed about 25 pounds over the past 6 months, but that doesn't seem to have helped. Have tried to stay on a schedule, have tried getting up really early, so far no rest. The bed we have isn't that old and it's a good comfy mattress. I've tried white noise with a fan, and after awhile it just irritates me. 

There is only one time in my adult life where I slept good. That was the week I went to Florida with my family about 5 years ago or so. The whole week I fell asleep at 11:00 PM and woke up at 6:30 feeling like a million bucks. Not sure if it was the exercise, the nice bed, the lack of stress, or combination of everything. Maybe it was the air? It was incredible how much I noticed it, when I woke up how rested I felt.

Even if I have a Saturday where I try sleeping in until 11:00 in the morning, I still wake up feeling still tired. Have had a complete physical recently where I got a clean bill of health. 

Would be interested to hear of anyone else's sleep woes and if they got resolved and how.


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## cap10subtext (Oct 13, 2005)

ehMax said:


> Have any ehMacians had any sleep problems that got resolved?
> 
> For quite some time now, I haven't been able to get a descent sleep and wake up feeling rested. Mrs. ehMax has been noticing that I really toss and turn a lot and have been snoring like a broken chainsaw. I've finally got around to scheduling a doctor's appointment for a visit and possibly a referral to a sleep clinic for testing.
> 
> Has anyone gone through this process? Is the only solution to get one of those storm trooper looking masks? Has anyone used one of those, and did it help? Does anyone know of other solutions that are available to improve sleep?


Good for you. I know 2 people who've been through the process. One was because their sleep apnea lead to 2 successive heart attacks - for them it was almost too late. Don't underestimate how dangerous a certain kind of snoring can be.

If you are a chronic snorer and it's not acute environmental factors (allergies, bad mattress) then you'll often have a sensor that you have to hook up to and sleep for a day or two while avoiding things that affect your sleep (alcohol, pills). They can then determine if your snoring affects your heartrate and breathing. If it does, the severity can determine the course of action. One of the most drastic and scary sounding is a CPAP machine which is difficult to adjust to because it involves wearing a mask and a slightly noisy machine but often works absolute miracles. One friend named their CPAP "Mr Awesome" because it's changed her life.



ehMax said:


> I try to get a decent amount of exercise, and have shed about 25 pounds over the past 6 months, but that doesn't seem to have helped. Have tried to stay on a schedule, have tried getting up really early, so far no rest. The bed we have isn't that old and it's a good comfy mattress. I've tried white noise with a fan, and after awhile it just irritates me.
> 
> There is only one time in my adult life where I slept good. That was the week I went to Florida with my family about 5 years ago or so. The whole week I fell asleep at 11:00 PM and woke up at 6:30 feeling like a million bucks. Not sure if it was the exercise, the nice bed, the lack of stress, or combination of everything. Maybe it was the air? It was incredible how much I noticed it, when I woke up how rested I felt.


Could be the atmosphere, humidity can help some people and hurt others. Also could be how the air was conditioned.



ehMax said:


> Even if I have a Saturday where I try sleeping in until 11:00 in the morning, I still wake up feeling still tired. Have had a complete physical recently where I got a clean bill of health.
> 
> Would be interested to hear of anyone else's sleep woes and if they got resolved and how.


It's possible! It's one of those things people are weird about not getting checked out for, but people should, absolutely. Good for your for taking steps and booking that appointment! :clap:


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

I had a case of insomnia (couldn't get to sleep, couldn't stay asleep) for weeks, a few years back. Got pills for it. I sleep like a baby now.


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

Ya, I went through that over 11 yrs ago..
it was a horrible experience.. in the end I recommend separate sleeping accommodations.. 

My wife couldn't sleep so I ended up at sleep clinic.. LOL funny how that works, they connected me up to a bunch of machines - I looked like a borg from star trek - made me fill out a survey - basically to find out if you are nuts or going to go postal any time soon.

You are jammed in a small room like a cubical with wafer thin walls and you have godzilla snoring through out the clinic - every 10mins a speaker comes " why aren't you sleeping?" or better when I do get sleepy out of pure desperation and exhaustion - rolled to my side or front the speakers and lights come on again " please dont sleep on your side or front".. at the point I ripped of the wires and told them to f off and I left.. sleep clinics - that is an ironic name for it..

at the end I went for xrays and the doctor said you may have a deviated septum/nasal on one side.. the fix was to drill with a router up my nose so they can 'clear the path'

so in the end I said no way...
I bought a simmons beauty rest mattress king size- do not disturb mattress [which doesnt help the wife's nagging] but it helped
now that we have kids.. I start out in my bed and end in my kids bed when they come running at 2 AM to ours as if the house is falling to the ground.

I also bought a bunch of different pillows.. to experiment.. feathers, non feathers, hard, soft, side sleeping pillows etc.. so now I have a house full of pillows..

I find that when I sleep on my front/face and hug the pillow and the windows open and the room pitch black in the kids bed [or on my own], I am good..
most of the time I can put in 12 hours of sleep.. [ but i am happy with 6 hours that I do get ] I try to get that at twice a month of 12 hour sleeps.

also before going to bed, do not consume alcohol or caffeine.. try to clear your mind or work or any other stress - that should help [ but some how my wife always seems to find a way to ask the most dumbest questions at bed time not sure why ? ]

Good luck that is my experience.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

One thing that has made a huge difference is making sure the room is blacked out. NO gadgets with little lights, no matter how small they might seem, or clocks, black out curtains (like the ones they use in hotels incidentally). That has made a huge difference.

Also, no screen time an hour before bed if at all possible. I've started reading before bed, not about politics )) or anything that could get my brain rolling.

Diet, no sugar hours before bed, I stopped caffeine after lunch if possible, and don't eat a large supper.

I've had lots of sleeping problems, and these are things that have been suggested to me, and have made a difference. (especially the light thing and diet)


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

Yeah, those were some of the recommendations I was given.



A few others:

Go to bed at the same time
Don't do anything in bed but sleep, don't use the bed to watch TV, etc.
Don't exercise before bed - like Groovetube said it was suggested to read a book, but I don't really read that much... sometimes I'll do this though.
Repeat something to yourself verbally (like a chant) - I sorta like:
my head is heavy, my arms are heavy, my body is heavy, my legs are heavy

But with my specific problem (my problem was different than yours), I found a mix of these and the medication prescribed helped me. One of my problems seemed to be that my mind liked to keep on working on this or worrying about things, even if I tried to stop.


I'm sure you'll find a solution between you and your doctor.


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## DempsyMac (May 24, 2007)

Mr. Mayor I am no Doctor and have not often had the issues that you speak of, but knowing a bit about your personal life of late I would assume that this is due to the changes in your life, new business and leaving a secure pay cheque?

May not be something that you are worried about but may show that it's something that keeps you (and many other) entrepreneurs up late at night.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

What did it for me was losing weight. I don't snore anymore and now have a full night sleep. Also be careful about starting with a sleep clinic because once you start with them and you miss any appointment with them or cancel they can and have for many people I know had their driver license suspended. And to get it back will be a hassle. Just warning you. They will make you buy a machine to sleep with. It will make you sound like darth vader while sleeping.

But don't neglect your snoring as I have seen and watched people who snore and when sleepping and watched them stop breathing and it forces them awake.

Have you gained weight lately? Not saying that is the issue.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

groovetube said:


> One thing that has made a huge difference is making sure the room is blacked out. NO gadgets with little lights, no matter how small they might seem, or clocks, black out curtains (like the ones they use in hotels incidentally). That has made a huge difference.
> 
> Also, no screen time an hour before bed if at all possible. I've started reading before bed, not about politics )) or anything that could get my brain rolling.
> 
> ...


All good points.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

You could also look at a magnesium diffiicenicy. My fiancée got it from Dr. OZ. you can buy a big bottle from Costco and take one a day. Ask your doctor.


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## cap10subtext (Oct 13, 2005)

Two more which I'm not sure were mentioned... Turning off the iPhone if you are using it like an alarm clock. I don't have many sleep problems so it doesn't wake either my wife or I up when it goes off (junk mail pinging at 2am), but I know people who were affected by it.

The other which helps me at certain points in my life, keep a note pad by the bed. Many people get into the bad habit of either talking about "to do" lists with their spouse right before bed or will remember something they have to do the next day. So instead of talking about stressful things or worrying about remembering them, just jot them down and put them out of your head.


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## jamesB (Jan 28, 2007)

ehMax said:


> I try to get a decent amount of exercise, and have shed about 25 pounds over the past 6 months





Joker Eh said:


> Have you gained weight lately? Not saying that is the issue.


It pays to read the whole thread...

Don't laugh but the hot milk trick works for me.
I've had nights when I went to bed and just lay there, nothing, nada no sleep at all.
Got up and put a cup of milk in the micro wave, sat back and sipped it, once back in bed I was asleep in short order.
This works every time for me.
Don't know what the facts are but there is info on the net, such as this that somewhat validates the hot milk bit.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

jamesB said:


> It pays to read the whole thread...


Ok I will confess I did not read his entire post.  But could he lose more than 25lbs? I know it made a difference for me. I lost to date 112 lbs. I sleep all the way through the night now and my finacee says I don't snore no more. Not saying its just overweight people who snore but most if not all the overweight people I know snore.

The hot milk is what my grandmother use to give to me and my mother gives to her grandchildren. So it might work.

Mayor you did mention that when you went to Florida you had a good sleep, so how about anywhere else you have went on vacation? Could it be your environment? The air in your house?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Joker Eh said:


> Mayor you did mention that when you went to Florida you had a good sleep, so how about anywhere else you have went on vacation? Could it be your environment? The air in your house?


Much more likely to be the absence of obligation and responsibility while on vacation. When the mind is idle except for the pleasant activities of a vacation, one tends to sleep well.


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## Mckitrick (Dec 25, 2005)

ehMax said:


> Have any ehMacians had any sleep problems that got resolved?
> 
> For quite some time now, I haven't been able to get a descent sleep and wake up feeling rested. Mrs. ehMax has been noticing that I really toss and turn a lot and have been snoring like a broken chainsaw. I've finally got around to scheduling a doctor's appointment for a visit and possibly a referral to a sleep clinic for testing.
> 
> ...


I've always had a really bad problem with sleep. Your positive experience in FL may have been due to exposure to sea air?

Stress is most definitely exacerbating the situation. Have you tried sleeping with Ear Plugs? On the weekends when I don't have to wake up with Junior, earplugs work GREAT for me.

Also, the local sleep clinic in KW (if you go to the same one I went to) is GROSS! Bring your own pillows at least, no matter how much they tell you not to. The pillow I was on was washed but had yellow/orange stains which I assume were blood. I kid you not.


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## steviewhy (Oct 21, 2010)

sudo rm -rf /


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## jef (Dec 9, 2007)

Toss out your Macs and get a PC - the stress and hassle of using one daily will exhaust you. You'll sleep like a baby when the nightmares are done.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

groovetube said:


> One thing that has made a huge difference is making sure the room is blacked out. NO gadgets with little lights, no matter how small they might seem, or clocks, black out curtains (like the ones they use in hotels incidentally). That has made a huge difference.
> 
> Also, no screen time an hour before bed if at all possible. I've started reading before bed, not about politics )) or anything that could get my brain rolling.
> 
> ...


Some great suggestions. 1:00 AM and I've been at computer for past 4 hours, probably not good. I should try reading before bed. For some reason, I hate reading books. Still haven't even finished Steve Jobs book, and that's about as interesting as it gets for me. 

Still, will try everyone's suggestion before doctor's visit next week.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Kosh said:


> Yeah, those were some of the recommendations I was given.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Was chatting with my friend who had similar issue. He had issue with not being able to shut off his mind and has some medication he takes. I think that's best to describe for me falling asleep, I can't shut off my mind. I can fall asleep, but when I do, it's staying asleep that's the problem.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

DempsyMac said:


> Mr. Mayor I am no Doctor and have not often had the issues that you speak of, but knowing a bit about your personal life of late I would assume that this is due to the changes in your life, new business and leaving a secure pay cheque?
> 
> May not be something that you are worried about but may show that it's something that keeps you (and many other) entrepreneurs up late at night.


It's been going on for a really long time before some other changes. I've been procrastinating and procrastinating talking to my doctor about it. 

Could be related to the thing of not being able to shut mind off. Maybe reading / unwinding is the answer. Will go to bed now and read for a bit. Got a nice book written by Neil Peart about his motorcycle adventures, maybe that will be a good book to get into.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Joker Eh said:


> What did it for me was losing weight. I don't snore anymore and now have a full night sleep. Also be careful about starting with a sleep clinic because once you start with them and you miss any appointment with them or cancel they can and have for many people I know had their driver license suspended. And to get it back will be a hassle. Just warning you. They will make you buy a machine to sleep with. It will make you sound like darth vader while sleeping.
> 
> But don't neglect your snoring as I have seen and watched people who snore and when sleepping and watched them stop breathing and it forces them awake.
> 
> Have you gained weight lately? Not saying that is the issue.


Like first post said, I've actually lost 25 pounds. Still pretty heavy at 250, but that's on 6'7" frame. I could lose another 20 pounds that might help.  

Lots of stuff to try. Looking forward to reporting a really good night's sleep at some point.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Definitely definitely can't sleep tonight :-(


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

That aftermath of the Apple vs. Samsung case have you tossing and turning too?


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

ehMax said:


> Was chatting with my friend who had similar issue. He had issue with not being able to shut off his mind and has some medication he takes. I think that's best to describe for me falling asleep, I can't shut off my mind. I can fall asleep, but when I do, it's staying asleep that's the problem.


Ativan aka novo lorazepam. Just a small dose will do ya, if you're lying awake with stress. Use only as prescribed by your doctor though.


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## steviewhy (Oct 21, 2010)

sudo rm -rf /


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

steviewhy said:


> I wouldn't go down that road. Sedatives just introduce a whole new aspect to sleep problems; dependance, rebound anxiety, etc. You think he has problems now, pills will only make it worse imho.


Very good point. Try Melatonin. I use Shopper's brand of 3mg tablets and take a couple a half hour before I go to bed.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

Dr.G. said:


> Very good point. Try Melatonin. I use Shopper's brand of 3mg tablets and take a couple a half hour before I go to bed.


Hmm...

http://mashable.com/2012/08/30/slee...m=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Mashable+(Mashable)



> “Our study shows that a two-hour exposure to light from self-luminous electronic displays can suppress melatonin by about 22%,” Figueiro says in a statement. “Stimulating the human circadian system to this level may affect sleep in those using the devices prior to bedtime.”


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## ChilBear (Mar 20, 2005)

I had a similar journey but 10 years ago. I have a CPAP and it works for me. Best decision by far was to visit a Naturopath and get my body chemical balance back without GP involvement. He was not happy as he wanted to use more meds to "cover" rather than solve the cause. The two operate on different models. 

One trigger in men is low testosterone and this is my trigger - once it gets low I cannot sleep well at all. Diet is all good as well but the body is a fine chemical balance and getting back there naturally is my solution. One multi per day plus one shot per month and I am good to go.YMMV.

Last good decision was to buy a foam mattress for back support. Visit the showroom at Foamite near Vaughan Mills for a "test drive" of different densities.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

steviewhy said:


> I wouldn't go down that road. Sedatives just introduce a whole new aspect to sleep problems; dependance, rebound anxiety, etc. You think he has problems now, pills will only make it worse imho.


Absolutely wrong. Sedatives help you to sleep by easing the anxiety, which seems to be the problem here. I take them now and again, in small doses, if I'm particularly wound up. They work, but only if you use them. Much cheaper than moving to Florida.


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## steviewhy (Oct 21, 2010)

sudo rm -rf /


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

steviewhy said:


> Yeah they do, but it doesn't take long for it to have the opposite effect.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fair enough. I guess I've been f***ed from the meds for about 22 years now in that case. In my case, they're covered under my extended health care plan, which is why I don't quite agree with buying vitamins and supplements you have to pay extra for off-the-shelf. Like I said, I don't take sedatives if I don't need them, but it sure is nice to have them in the medicine cabinet. Especially to ensure a good night's sleep once in a while.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

A bottle of wine helps.


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## keebler27 (Jan 5, 2007)

Sorry to hear about your sleeping issues, but this is a good thread as I'm sure there are plenty of us out there experiencing the same thing.

For me, I went through a bout where I was grinding my teeth. Even had teeth denture protectors made.

Turns out when I switched one job to another, I was done. No more grinding.

ie. it was stress!

I also never snored before, but then I put on a bunch of fat and then snored like a banshee. Finally trimmed down for other reasons and now rarely snore. ie. maybe once every 2 months or so according to the wifey and that's usually when I'm thoroughly exhausted.

I also had a buddy who snored brutally. I wore earplugs when in the same room as him in hunt camp. He lost a pile of weight. Stopped snoring. Put the weight back on, snoring brutally again! 

My wife also as a condition called Arnold Chiara Malformation where part of her skull is a little too close to the brain which affects the flow of brain fluid thus affecting her brain. She's a-ok most of the time (she has a very slight malformation thankfully - as in mm's), but she's still affected and one of the main issues is sleep deprivation. The poor girl hasn't had a solid sleep in years - probably 12! Other issues are severe headaches, tingling in the arm, dizziness, nausea.

Arnold?Chiari malformation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It affects mostly women, but can affect men and is present from birth, but not noticeable until the 30's usually. In fact, I think there was a pro golfer (male) who just had surgery for it. I hope my wife doesn't reach that level. ick...

You mentioned losing weight which is fantastic, but perhaps you need to lose more to change the snoring which might be related to sleep apnea? I know my buddy didn't notice anything until he had lost near 60 lbs, but of course, it could be different from anyone. You might be on the path, but not quite there yet?

Or it could be stress too. We all know that is the greatest evil.

As someone else suggestion, my wifey visited a reiki who suggested some vitamins to help balance the body's chemical levels. A naturopath store might help as well with suggestions. Definitely ways to harness natural medicines.

Best of luck!
Keebler


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## imnothng (Sep 12, 2009)

I was falling asleep while driving on any drive longer than 30 minutes. I never felt I had a good nights sleep. I always joked that I could literally fall asleep anywhere, anytime. My wife and I have always slept in different rooms (I don't understand how/why people sleep together).

Fast forward 8years into our marriage and a close call driving with my son in the back and I have a CPAP machine.

I finally went to my doctor who referred me to a breathing doc. (resporoligist, sp?). He got me in at Credit Valley hospitals sleep clinic where I had my worst sleep ever, lol. They prescribed a CPAP machine which I had to buy (well they didn't put a gun to my head, but that was the prescription). The doctor reported me to the MTO because it was bad, and after the sleep clinic and I told him I got the machine, he sent them a letter and never heard from them again.

I put up with the machine for a few months, but eventually gave up. I didn't use it for over a year and in the time I would fall asleep watching TV while leaning forward with the elbows on my knees. I stated using it again when I decided to try a different style of mask. It made the world of difference and I use it EVERY night with no issues.

Short story, I got a CPAP machine with nasal pillow style mask and have never slept better or felt more rested. Sure it takes a while to get used to it, for something to save my life I will do it.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

steviewhy said:


> Yeah they do, but it doesn't take long for it to have the opposite effect.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Yeah, I've taken those a couple times, you do get a good night's sleep with them. They're good for temporary problems of 1 or 2 days. But not more than that. Some of these medications are addictive, too. Can't remember which ones, but the doctor will warn you of that.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

Kosh said:


> Yeah, I've taken those a couple times, you do get a good night's sleep with them. They're good for temporary problems of 1 or 2 days. But not more than that. Some of these medications are addictive, too. Can't remember which ones, but the doctor will warn you of that.


True dat. But a good night's sleep is better than being road kill any day of the week.


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## talonracer (Dec 30, 2003)

I have had this exact issue for years. 

However, what I've found works for me is the exact opposite of what people suggest: I put the tv on. I find listening to a show that is not too entertaining, but not something I am disinterested in, is just enough of a distraction to keep my brain from getting on its own race course and taking off at 300 miles an hour. If nothing is on TV I'll put on a DVD of a series I've already watched and turn on the sleep timer on the TV.

A few sedatives I've tried:
Melatonin - worked for a time, but I had to keep upping the dose
Valerian - did not work at all. Made me wired.
Holy Basil capsules - Worked more effectively than melatonin
Gravol - worked, but I didn't take it for too long for fears of getting addicted or any long term effects
NyQuil - usually works well, but if I don't have 8+ hours I can sleep, I am groggy as heck for the first few hours of the day
ZZZQuil - worked quite well 4 out of 5 times I took it. On the one off night, it still took a couple hours for me to fall asleep.

Aaaand, just to throw everyone off... many times a shot of espresso or Red Bull will put me right to sleep. :lmao:


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

So many suggestions, I'm a bit confused... Thinking about all the options, I'll never get to sleep. 

Last night, I did do an adjustment. 10:30 PM, turned all screens off and went into "Going to bed" routine. Put on PJ's, washed my face, brushed teeth. Was mentally telling myself "I'm going to shutoff mode". Went to bed with no iPhone, and instead read first chapter of Neil Peart book I just got. After that, fell asleep pretty quickly. 

Woke up this morning at 7AM, and I actually slept well and was really comfy. Could of slept more though and was really tired waking up. Now that I'm up, I feel a little more alert than normal. 

Going to try that for a few days. Still going to follow through on doctor's visit next week though. Will try to avoid CPAP machine at all cost as I can't imagine trying to sleep in that. 

Also going to try to lose 20 more pounds to see if that helps with the snoring.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

ehMax said:


> Going to try that for a few days. Still going to follow through on doctor's visit next eek though. Will try to avoid CPAP machine at all cost as I can't imagine trying to sleep in that.
> 
> Also going to try to lose 20 more pounds to see if that helps with the snoring.


it looks like you might have found a starting point

Just be aware that once you notify the doctor he can notify MTO to suspend your license unless you go to sleep clinic and then the whole process starts. If you don't follow up with sleep clinic or doctor they can suspend your license. Don't want to scare you but it happens even though you try to convince them that your ok now.

You might find that losing more weight to get you into your normal range will do the trick.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Joker Eh said:


> it looks like you might have found a starting point
> 
> Just be aware that once you notify the doctor he can notify MTO to suspend your license unless you go to sleep clinic and then the whole process starts. If you don't follow up with sleep clinic or doctor they can suspend your license. Don't want to scare you but it happens even though you try to convince them that your ok now.
> 
> You might find that losing more weight to get you into your normal range will do the trick.


Wow... just read up about that a bit. Hmm... might try to lose the 20 pounds and try the new routine a bit more before going in.


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## tilt (Mar 3, 2005)

Mr. Mayor, I suffer from Obstructive Sleep Apnoea and I have been using a CPAP since 2002. It takes a few nights to get used to wearing a mask (and it also depends on what type of mask and the fit etc. - it varies from person to person); but once you get used to it, it is very easy.

Now it has come to a stage where I cannot even lay down to sleep without turning the CPAP on.

You may have slept well the last night or two, but if you were still snoring (ask your wife if you were or not); I would still strongly recommend you get yourself to a sleep clinic and go through the test. 

Sleep Apnoea can actually be fatal and has been known to contribute to a lot of other illnesses. One study (I can no longer find it) also linked obesity as a result (and not a cause) of Apnoea. In other words, according to the study, you do not have Apnoea because you are fat, you are fat because you have Apnoea.

Cheers


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## OldeBullDust (Aug 22, 2010)

Mr. Mayor, go to the sleep clinic! Get tested!

I have sleep Apnea, I know how tired you can become when you cannot get a real full nights sleep. I decided to seek help when I started to fall asleep when driving IN to work in the morning. I couldn’t understand why I never had any dreams at night - because I never really got to that stage in my “sleep”.

I was tested at the sleep clinic in Newmarket, very clean, very professional. During my trial/evaluation I “woke-up” [ stopped breathing/ woke just enough to gasp for breath, and back to sleep & snoring] over 500 times in 8 hours.

I have a CPAP machine and it has made all the difference in the world! I now get a good nights rest, I’m no longer a grouch ( most of the time anyway), I don’t feel miserable all day. It is not that hard to adjust to wearing a mask at night. My new machine is quite quiet, it even has a built in humidifier.

If there is any possibility that you have sleep Apnea, then you must check it out, for your own sake and for the sake of your family. Researchers suspect that I high percentage of car/industrial accidents may be caused by people falling asleep.
As Tilt mentioned, Apnea can contribute to heart attacks, or strokes [ much worst than dying in my opinion].

And, if you have sleep Apnea, taking drugs can make the situation much worse, dulling your body’s waking response when your breathing is blocked..

you just might not wake up


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

A little alarmist, that last sentence. However, I do agree that you have nothing to lose and everything to be gained from being tested for sleep apnea. Don't expect to sleep very comfortably the night of the test though, since the testing equipment is a little cumbersome. If it's not sleep apnea, then at least you can rule that out, and if you do use sedatives, sleep with a clean conscience.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

tilt said:


> Mr. Mayor, I suffer from Obstructive Sleep Apnoea and I have been using a CPAP since 2002. It takes a few nights to get used to wearing a mask (and it also depends on what type of mask and the fit etc. - it varies from person to person); but once you get used to it, it is very easy.
> 
> Now it has come to a stage where I cannot even lay down to sleep without turning the CPAP on.
> 
> ...


The study sponsored by sleep clinics? 

The body will force you to wake up if you stop breathing from a blockage. That's why you don't get a full sleep because you are always waking up. And please no way you are fat because you don't sleep. A bunch of malarkey.

It is not natural to sleep with a machine, get to the cause of the issue not treat the cause.

He has already lost 25lbs and another 25lbs would be a total of 50lbs that is huge. Just check your BMI number and check health Canada has to what the issues you will have if you are overweight.

I know because I was where the mayor is. When I gained weight I found myself being forced to wake up because of snoring which can also cause you to stop breathing. I never had a good sleep and was always tired by 5PM. 

Sleep clinics are a big business now and not one person i know of that has gone in has come out WITHOUT a machine.

Again solve the problem don't mask it.


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## tilt (Mar 3, 2005)

Joker, I know a few Apnoea sufferers who are quite slim and trim, in fact one of them is a hot chick! So, there is not necessarily a direct correlation between the two.

Cheers


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## OldeBullDust (Aug 22, 2010)

@ Joker
 I don’t intend to debate the issue, I just suggest that you might find further research into the condition useful.

I will note that yes, the body will respond and act to force you to wake up and breath. However, your condition may retard this response, especially if you are excessively fatigued, heavy drinker, taking certain drugs or if your blood oxygen level is very low due to extended periods of not breathing properly. (aka hypoxemia ).

Snoring is a symptom, not a cause, and not all people who snore have sleep Apnea.
And yes, obesity contributes to a higher risk of obstructive sleep apnea, as does diabetes.

It is not a conspiracy to sell machines, it is a very real medical condition.  
I have attended sleep clinics in both a hospital and a private clinic, neither sold/supplied or recommended purchase of a specific machine or equipment. In fact I was offered the option of surgery - which I declined. 
I purchased my equipment through a normal medical equipment supplier.

If there is any chance you have Sleep Apnea - get tested!


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## latitude50 (Jun 26, 2011)

*medical procedure correction*

Okay, I'm in here late and I don't have time to read all of what was said yesterday so hopefully my input will fit in.

I have a CPAP (Continuous Positive Air Pressure) and have used it for seven years. I hated that it was suggested I needed this for my sleep apnea which I even had in my teens when I was very fit. I was embarrassed to apparently need a stupid looking mask on my face to get a good nights sleep. I had two angioplasties at the age of fifty-five and apnea and stress had a huge contribution to that need. I was in the hospital already so they told me about CPAP after observing my stats and collecting snoring complaints from the others in the room.

I think the sleep clinic is needed to recommend a CPAP or medical won't cover it so I would follow through with that and get your doctor to set it up. From what you have described as your sleep history and your snoring I can guarantee they will tell you that you need one. My hospital stay circumvented the clinic need and I got mine no charge without the clinic stay.

I LOVE mine; it changed my life, and I would never be without it. I sleep perfectly through the night without the stress of my heart panicking for oxygen and I never snore anymore. It took me a few nights to get used to it but I can still remember waking up in the morning after the first time I used it. WOW. I couldn't remember ever feeling refreshed in the morning like I did and it would have been nice to have owned one long before then.

It's going to be a "hair straight back" day for me today, so if you have questions, I may not be able to get back to this until tomorrow. I would sure like to know how this whole thing plays out for you though.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

ehMax said:


> Some great suggestions. 1:00 AM and I've been at computer for past 4 hours, probably not good. I should try reading before bed. For some reason, I hate reading books. Still haven't even finished Steve Jobs book, and that's about as interesting as it gets for me.
> 
> Still, will try everyone's suggestion before doctor's visit next week.


That's tough when the majority of your work often centres on being in front of a screen. I often will work long long hours to make up for my other activities and days off I take, and shutting things off, and focusing on something unrelated is hard to do. Days off have become far more important as well, because a long stretch of 7 day weeks caused a lot of sleeping problems for me. Yesterday I did 8 hours in a recording studio on a drumkit, after loading out, I loaded into a club and did a 3 hour set til 2 am, interestingly enough, I was asleep as soon as I hit the pillow. Not much screen time at all save for a little over supper. The physical exhaustion helped too.

I'm convinced taking your mind off of work and related worries is big.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I suppose surviving the 70's has helped me a lot

Depression in the 90's and the Oh Oh's was helped along a bit with anti depression drugs,
Also finding out that I have Adult A.D.D. helped.

But the real cure was to not think too much about death and the inevitable,
That seems to have helped me sleep better.

That along with lots and lots of physical work that makes me very tired by 7:00 p.m. helps.

But, The real kicker that helps me sleep,
Is knowing I'm helping make the world go around and that I'm not a nobody.

I do have something to contribute to the world.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Lawrence said:


> But, The real kicker that helps me sleep,
> Is knowing I'm helping make the world go around and that I'm not a nobody.
> 
> I do have something to contribute to the world.


A fine attitude, Lawrence. Paix, mon ami.


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## cap10subtext (Oct 13, 2005)

Joker Eh said:


> The study sponsored by sleep clinics?
> 
> The body will force you to wake up if you stop breathing from a blockage. That's why you don't get a full sleep because you are always waking up. And please no way you are fat because you don't sleep. A bunch of malarkey.
> 
> ...


Gonna have to differ in opinion here. There are obviously many ways one could improve their quality of life but it's the equivalent of saying to someone with depression that they shouldn't takes meds. Everyones circumstance is different and the machines should be a personal choice just like any course of treatment for a chronic condition. But if i seem like i'm advocating the cpap it's because I'd err on the side of encouraging people to try something that they might naturally resist so they can balance their choices a bit more clearly.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I also discovered that if you sleep with your arms over your head,
You'll breathe easier and you'll find that your sleep is more restful.
Having a big firm bed helps too, I sleep on a futon.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

If you had, or have the potential genetically, heart problems, never sleep with your arms above your head. The nurses in the Cardiac Care Unit reprimanded me, as did my cardiologist, admonishing me for having my arms above my head, even when laying down. It puts undue strain on any heart to pump blood up into your arms against the force of gravity. Something I never knew, but have practiced now for 12 years. Limit above the head use of your arms at all times.


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

I struggled with sleep issues for a long time, and my husband still does frequently. 

Things that have helped me the most are warm milk with honey or herbal tea before bed. Not sure if it's what's in the tea of the ritual of making it that it calming for me, but whatever. I find a very dark room helps a lot, as well a lot of bright sunlight as soon as I get up in the morning. It also helps me to keep the room a little on the cool side (a fan, which provides white noise, helps for this) and have warm covers. Hot baths also help.... I find I sleep best when my body is warm, but the air around me is cool. 

Reading before bed also helps me, but it's more that it relaxes me and diverts my mind from whatever I'm ruminating on. If that's uninteresting, try something else that you find mildly entertaining, but try to avoid things on the computer--the computer emits light, and the light is part of what keeps people awake. For my husband, exercise helps--he runs in the early evening. 

It sounds, though, that part of the issue is not the sleeping but how to relax your mind. Best thing for that is meditation and mindfulness, but that takes a long time to develop a good practice. Next best bet is something to divert the mind, like reading mentioned above. (Last week neither of us could sleep for ruminating, so we played 20 Questions... it stopped the ruminating.)


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## Kazak (Jan 19, 2004)

Hope you sleep well for your birthday tonight, Mr. Mayor.


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

,


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Thought I would update this thread (After taking a small hiatus from ehMac this past week to let the "thanks button" and the impending doom of ehMac from our apparent new evil overlord Mo sort itself out   )

I finally went to the sleep clinic about a week ago. I didn't sleep very long because of the unfamiliar surrounding and especially the awkwardness of having so many wires attached to me. I usually sleep on my side and toss a lot, but that felt weird with all the wires connected to me and the feeling that I would unplug everything if I turned on my side. 

From the sleep that I did have, in the followup visit it was revealed to me through graphs and what-not that I awoke _very often_. You could see the graph of my breathing going down, my oxygen level decreasing to almost nothing, then a scattered graph of brain activity as my brain woke me up yelling at me "Breathe properly you idiot!"

This happened about every 5 minutes repeatedly. Most of the time, I am not conscience and aware of this happening. I also did wake up quite often though. 

So... they did recommend either a CPAP machine, or to get surgery. They did not think this was weight related, as I'm not too heavy right now, and it has happened for years and years despite being at my target weight often. (Losing weight wouldn't hurt things, but would not likely "cure" my sleep apnea). It's also a catch 22. Extremely hard to start exercising and working out when you are constantly exhausted. In most cases, being overweight is a result of sleep apnea, not the other way around. 

I opted to try the CPAP method, as surgery doesn't have a very high success rate, and I'm not thrilled of going under the knife. Last night I did another sleep test, this time with a CPAP machine as they tested various pressure of air. 

To cut to the chase... *I. Slept. AWESOME!! *   :clap: I had such a deep, deep sleep, with really long, vivid dreams I haven't had in a loooong time. My eyes were really sore in the morning and I was told I had long periods of REM and my eyes were probably "out of shape" and not used to it. 

I slept for only about 6 hours, but it felt like I slept 12. 

The CPAP machine was really comfortable and I didn't mind it at all. When she put it on, she told me to hold it to my nose for 10 minutes. I didn't even think it was on, I was expecting to hear a noise, or to feel a weird, uncomfortable sensation of air being blown down my nose. When she came in, she asked me how it was going. I was going to tell her, I didn't think it was on yet, but when I opened my mouth, air came gushing out and my first words came out all funny with the air rushing out. I laughed my head off, it was so unexpected. :lmao: The machine was virtually silent. 

When it is on, I feel like I can breathe really good, I'm a natural nose breather and the mask just covers my nose. Feels like I can get in a lot more air and oxygen with each breath. 

I fell asleep quickly. When I heard a knock and the lights came on, I thought it was about 1:00 AM, but the nurse told me, we were all done, it was 6:00 AM and the test was over. I couldn't believe it. 

I can't wait to get my CPAP machine, I bet it is going to change my life! 

I know sleeping with a CPAP machine isn't "natural" but neither is wearing glasses, and I wear those and they greatly improve my life. 

I'm supposed to wait up to 6 weeks for the official prescription to come in to then go get the device, but I don't know if I can wait that long!

OHIP covers up 75% of the cost of the device and I believe my wife's plan will cover the balance. 

I have A LOT of energy today and feel very rested and alert. I can't imagine how good I will feel when I sleep a full 8 hours in my own bed. Will update everyone when I finally get it and use for awhile.


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

not sure where the thanks or like button went..
but thumbs up 
liked the update


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## partsguy (Jul 24, 2012)

It's excellent to hear when things work for people. Sometimes I think there is far too much emphasis on the negative things in life.


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

Good for you ehMax!

I know a few people who use the CPAP machine, and they absolutely love what it does for them.


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## tilt (Mar 3, 2005)

ehMax said:


> So... they did recommend either a CPAP machine, or to get surgery. They did not think this was weight related, as I'm not too heavy right now, and it has happened for years and years despite being at my target weight often. (Losing weight wouldn't hurt things, but would not likely "cure" my sleep apnea). It's also a catch 22. Extremely hard to start exercising and working out when you are constantly exhausted. *In most cases, being overweight is a result of sleep apnea, not the other way around.*


John, I am happy to see that you took the effort to get diagnosed. I am a CPAP user myself and I (after having read quite a few opinions by experts and others and also having spoken with doctors and surgeons from Europe, UK and here) am in favour of the CPAP machine over surgery.

As for masks etc., John, after having experienced many different kinds, nasal pillows are what I find most comfortable, coupled with a very flexible headgear that does not break and is extremely light and compressible.

As to the bolded and underlined portion of your post, this is the same opinion I expressed in my earlier posts in this very thread - and someone disagreed with that opinion. I did not bother to look for the study I was referring to, so I wonder if you would be able to cite the source of this information (that in many cases obesity is the effect and not the cause of Apnoea).

Cheers


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## OldeBullDust (Aug 22, 2010)

Way to go John!

I'm also a CPAP user, and the difference it has made to my life cannot be exaggerated. I'm certain my wife is thankful that my doctor spotted the problem.

I went from a nasty, snarling old bugger to a quiet relaxed old bugger,

Wish you the best


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

I'm more of a tranquilizer guy myself. 😞


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## billy98111 (Nov 20, 2012)

I just read a few posts on this thread but it's seems like most people are having trouble getting to sleep, but is there anyone that sleeps too much? I ask because I have to take at least 1 preferably 2 solid naps during the day (20-60min each) to feel normal. If not I am COMPLETELY useless and it's like torture the rest of the day. I exercise and eat well but it's just how my body is.


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## latitude50 (Jun 26, 2011)

Ha! I knew you would be a candidate for the CPAP and would get a really good sleep using it!!

This is what I posted back at the beginning of Sept.:
[I LOVE mine; it changed my life, and I would never be without it. I sleep perfectly through the night without the stress of my heart panicking for oxygen and I never snore anymore. It took me a few nights to get used to it but I can still remember waking up in the morning after the first time I used it. WOW.]

Do another update after you have used it for a while. I think I could probably accurately write that for you right now to use later if you want.


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## imnothng (Sep 12, 2009)

tilt said:


> As for masks etc., John, after having experienced many different kinds, nasal pillows are what I find most comfortable, coupled with a very flexible headgear that does not break and is extremely light and compressible.


I couldn't agree more. When I bought my machine I got a mask that covered my nose. It left nasty marks on my face for up to an hour because I had to have it so tight or it would leak. Then I tried the nasal pillows and haven't looked back since. I am using the latest Swift FX mask and LOVE IT.

Check out CPAP.com for anything you need, great prices.


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## tilt (Mar 3, 2005)

imnothng said:


> I couldn't agree more. When I bought my machine I got a mask that covered my nose. It left nasty marks on my face for up to an hour because I had to have it so tight or it would leak. Then I tried the nasal pillows and haven't looked back since. I am using the latest Swift FX mask and LOVE IT.
> 
> Check out CPAP.com for anything you need, great prices.


I second CPAP.com, John. It's a great resource for reliable information; and if you are comfortable, you can also buy from there, except that your Canadian health insurance will not pay for purchases from the U.S.

The headgear I use is the Swift LT with nasal pillows.

Cheers


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