# Passport Required for border crossing?



## Urban_Legend (May 29, 2003)

Hi everyone,

If I want to cross the border into Buffalo, do I need a passport on top of the birth certificate and drivers licence? 

Thank you.


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## VertiGoGo (Aug 21, 2001)

If you are a Canadian citizen you may, or may not require a passport to enter the US. 

However, if you have a passport it would not hurt to have it with you; particularly if you are an immigrant who has become a Canadian citizenship. There are documented cases of US border guards not admitting Canadians into America if their passports indicate that they're originally from another country; especially (and regrettably) those Canadians who're from traditionally Muslim nations. 

Most permanent residents require additional supporting documents to enter the US and depending on the passport they hold, may also require a visa to enter the United States.

If you have any doubts about the necessary documents, consult the Citizenship and Immigration web page, or that of the US Government. 

Of particular note from the US web site: 



> If you are a Canadian citizen, you do not require a visa to enter the United States. You may, however, be required to show your passport and proof of Landed Immigrant Status at the U.S. Port of Entry. Citizens of certain other countries do not require a visa for a stay of up to 90 days.


I suggest people read this site before traveling because: 



> Effective March 17, 2003 citizens of most British Commonwealth countries are now required to obtain a visa in advance of travel to the United States.


Happy traveling...and say "thanks" to George Dubya for making the world a safer place.


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## hmto (Jul 4, 2003)

Passport definitely needed. Better safe than sorry


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## Chealion (Jan 16, 2001)

Canada is the only country that does not have to have a passport, visa, or have their citizens photographed and fingerprinted upon entry to the United States. For now anyway.

As of a few days ago, the British who used to not be photographed and fingerprinted are now having to have that done. Also, they are only allowed to stay 90 days without a Visa (only about 27 countries have this option), while Canadians can stay 180.

Either way, crossing the border into the United States is coiming to the point where it is almost guranteed to ruin your day. It sure did mine when I flew down, but it's a nice country (for the most part) once you're down here.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Been across the line numerous times in the past year (the border is only about a half hour from here by boat).

I've traveled in a car, on a plane, by boat, and once I went down there with my whole nasty biker-type race crew for an exhibition race in eastern Washington. We had a huge motorhome and a race trailer full of Nitro Drag race Harley stuff with us. 

ZERO problems, each time.

I have never taken my passport with me. (I can't...it has a Cuban work visa in it). I just used my driver's licence and birth cerificate.

But I've only been asked to produce those on one occasion. The rest of the time they just wave me through with a smile. Getting back into Canada was tougher....each time.

By all means take your passport. But it is not required.

Like chealion says...once you get down there, it's really a rather nice place. Enjoy!


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

You need proof of Canadian Citizenship; a birth certificate qualifies but is a bit dangerous to carry because if you lose it an identity theft is very, very easy to pull off.

A passport is also fine and a bit safer because you can notify someone if you lose it or have it stolen. Birth certificates are permanent documents.

Most if us remember when a driver's license was all that was needed (which technically doesn't prove anything about citizenship) but those days are long gone.

Crossing a border can vary widely; you may have no problems at all many times but sooner or later someone is going to insist on proper documentation or close scrutiny. You are in US soil when at US Customs and a lot of things can happen, including short term detention.

Where this gets tricky is if you are refused for any reason (even something like no proof of citizenship), that will go on their database and you will have problems from that point on every time; in fact a single refusal is grounds for being barred permanently, technically.

I know one person who was refused for an insignificant reason and on a subsequent crossing was barred and deported (he didn't admit he had been refused before, and not answering a customs question truthfully is grounds for deportation, even if they find out long after you've crossed); they seized his boss's truck and it took months to get it back. Which was nice of them, they don't have to ever give it back.


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## Urban_Legend (May 29, 2003)

Well due to the inconsistency of yes or no answers, I decided to contact the Canada Customs Border service and find out exactly what is needed these days.

The answer is NO you do not need a passport IF you were born in Canada, have a birth certificate and photo ID. That is all you need to cross the border with. There has been no mandate or law put in place for having a Canadian Passport when crossing the border via vehicle. This could be different when flying across the border, I was told in that case, check with your airline.

I hope this information is helpful to anyone else who was wondering. I thank those of you who were correct


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## hmto (Jul 4, 2003)

I trek to Detroit every year for the auto show in January and this past year we were told by the border guard that a passport is a must even for Can citizens born in Can carrying a birth cert. The Jan following 9/11 I was able to enter without so much as a second look, just the usual questions and away we went. Seems the noose has gotten tighter


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## canuck1975 (Dec 7, 2003)

I'm assuming the Canadian border guards also advised that it would be wise to have your passport with you?


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

Times have changed, eh?

I remember rolling up to the border, enroute to Buffalo, in a tiny car packed with fellow stoned 20 somethings, like myself, back in the 70's. As we moved closer to the kiosk, to our horror, we rather suddenly realized that the car was full of thick pot smoke, so we rolled down all the windows and watched the smoke billow out. It was something like a scene from a Cheech and Chong movie. To this day, I have no idea what on earth we could have possibly been thinking. The expressionless US customs guard, asked if we were all Canadians and just waved us through.

One of my friends thought he detected the hint of a smile on the guards face. Me, I was just too terrified that I was going to end up in Attica to have noticed anything.

Anyone trying a dumb stunt like that today, would actually end up in jail before their buzz wore off.

So, hey, you kids out dere .... (said in a Don Cherry voice  )


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## Urban_Legend (May 29, 2003)

Canuck,

No, they did not. It is not mandatory and they can't force it on you until it becomes law. For whatever reason, some people have this notion that you need a passport to cross the border with your vehicle. There is this huge confusion out there after 9/11 and I thought I would get the correct answer and also see what others have experienced here. 

Even though I was born and raised here in Canada, I have a valid passport, however not updated. I don't feel like spending the money to update it if I do not have to, just to cross into the US border for the day and come back again with my vehicle. However, if you are not born here in Canada, then perhaps you fall into the category of needing to use your passport, immigration papers etc.. to cross over and back into Canada.

I am sure that one day the requirement will be to use only your passport for ID when crossing the US border and back into Canada with your vehicle.


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## canuck1975 (Dec 7, 2003)

> It is not mandatory and they can't force it on you until it becomes law.


Nor is it mandatory to allow you to cross the border. 

Here's what it says on the Canadian Government's "Bon Voyage" website:



> The requirements of U.S. authorities for identification upon entering the United States have recently become much stricter. The most important formality on entering the United States is providing proof of your Canadian citizenship. *In order to avoid possible problems, all Canadians should carry a Canadian passport for all visits to the United States.* Your Canadian passport is the best document to prove your Canadian citizenship and your right to return to Canada.


You were given valid information, we don't _require_ a passport, but we can be denied access to the US for any reason - including not having enough valid ID to prove citizenship.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Taking a passport with you may not be necessary,
But it speeds up the border crossing if you have it.

Dave


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Like I said earlier, if you have a passport then by all means take it with you. But it is not required.

If you were not born in Canada....or even _LOOK_ like you weren't born here...then you will need that passport. And a bit of luck, these days.


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## lotus (Jun 29, 2002)

I have to agree with Macnutt - Mark that date on the calendar!! If you have a passport, by all means take it, if not you shouldn't have any problem with a Canadian birth certificate and photo identification.

For the past 50 years I have travelled back and forth by train, plane and automobile without a passport, only my U.S. birth certificate, driver's license and Landed Immigrant card. Last year in Denver the security was the tightest of any place I have been. Our car was searched before we even got into the airport and they were checking contents of several bags.

One thing I always do is try to avoid any woman at customs and immigration, power seems to go to their head and they can give you a hard time. Honest, trust me on this!


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

> ...or even LOOK like you weren't born here...


It might be more correct to say "...or even LOOK like you weren't born here, in the opinion of some racist border guard who assumes that if you aren't, white and middle-class looking you aren't 'one of us'". Some racist who doesn't have a clue that someone born in Canada can be of any ethnic or cultural background.

It must be quite horrifying to be a naturalized or native-born Canadian of Arab or South-Asian descent and have to contemplate the thought of crossing that border, thinking that there is a chance, even with your passport in your hand, that something bad could happen to you. Entering a country that has new laws on the books allowing you to be legally disappeared. Yikes!


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

It would be far MORE horrifying for that very same border guard to know that they had let in someone who had gone on to commit some sort of horrific act. Killing or maiming thousands of innocent people.

That aforesaid border guard has to walk a very fine line these days. They must try their best to weed out the real Canadians from the fakes. Knowing, as they do, that Canada is insanely easy to gain entry to and that it currently harbours numerous active terrorist organisations.

Canada is, by far, the easiest route into the USA. For everyone. Al Qaeda knows this. 

I sure wouldn't want to be a US Border Guard these days. No fun at all, I'd bet.


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## WorldIRC (Mar 7, 2004)

Put it this way. You don't require a Passport by law to enter the US. However, it is their country and they can deny whoever the heck they want. They are there to protect their country and if they feel ANY risk by letting you in, then they don't have to. However, I was there last Sunday with a birth certificate and a photo ID. The man there thanked me for having the proper ID (being an 18 year old ignorant adolescent) and said to have a nice trip.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Anyone trying to get into the US without a passport nowadays is a bloody idiot. The border guards are empowered to act on their own recognizance. They can detain you for hours. Take whatever ID you can and always tell the truth. As for racial profiling, the good agents don't do this (wouldn't have helped with Timothy McVeigh.....). However, I've seen many occasions of people of asian origin being pulled out the line for extra attention. Makes me sick. You can bet every non-Caucasian carries a passport - they've been through it for years.

If you are a landed immigrant, you also HAVE to have a Permanent Resident card to be allowed back into Canada by air (you can still walk over.....). If you are a citizen, you need proff of citizenship (such as a citizenship card, birth certificate or.... passport). If you travel on a foreign passport but are a Canadian citizen you need to carry your citizenship card.

Remarkably, you do not, legally, have to show photo-ID when travelleing by air with Canada. Most airlines demand photo-ID but it is not a statutary requirement. Moreover, in La Belle Provence, it is illegal to ask for Provincial identification (such as a driving licence) unless you are a government agency. Of course, don't try this at home or you'll be sitting in the departures hall.....

And for those of you with expired or no passports, be warned. There is a 6-10 week wait on passports and this gets worse in the run-up to Summer. Moreover, the number of rejected applications is now significant due to the many extra details and checks (such as submitting a photograph with any shadow, facial expression or head-covering).

Finally, the security guards are just doing their job. Make it easy for them. They are there to provide you with better safety. A week ago I was behind a complete idiot at Pearson. He was a contractor with a bag of tools (hammers, chisels, knives, box-cutters). He wanted to duck around the detectors and cussed the guards for making him take off his steel capped boots and tool belt.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I'm pretty sure your British accent is what gives away your origins, Woodget. In your case a passport is required, I believe. 

But I'm betting you've receievd more smiles than scowls when crossing into the US.  

Oh...and McVeigh was already in the US. He was born there. So borders probably weren't a big worry for him.

As long as middle eastern types continue to wreak havoc and blow stuff up all over the world, then anyone who even vaguely resmbles them will be looked upon with suspicion by most of the rest of us. This sort of human response comes under the heading of "IFF" (Identification of Friend or Foe)...and it is a reflex that is hundreds of thousands of years old. One of our most basic insticts. Right up there with "Fight or Flight".

The humans living here today are direct descendants of previous humans who survived by using these instincts on a daily basis. The proto humans who couldn't tell friend from foe...or who stayed and tried to reason with an enemy didn't live long enough to have kids and pass on their gentle genes. 

Just because we have become rather civilised in the last couple of hundred years, doesn't mean that we have totally bred that old response out of our gene pool. At least not just yet.

Sad but true.


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

> It would be far MORE horrifying for that very same border guard to know that they had let in someone who had gone on to commit some sort of horrific act. Killing or maiming thousands of innocent people.


Yup, I guess you’re right. Hey, gotta break some eggs ... “Those who are brown will please step into line B and submit to a short detention and cavity search before proceeding. This is necessary because your skin colour or ethnicity means that it’s more likely you might be a terrorist. If we believe on a hunch of some sort that you are guilty of anything you may be held, jailed, secretly tried or shipped to a dictatorship of our choosing for ‘extraordinary rendition’ (euphemism for torture). No contact with relatives or anyone else will be allowed. Your Canadian passport means squat. All completely legal under the Patriot Act. You are now entering the Land of the Free and the home of the Brave. Have a nice day.”

So the answers to the original questions of this thread are, don’t need a passport to cross the border, but probably a good idea. If you look kinda Arabic or something, better stay home.


> Knowing, as they do, that Canada is insanely easy to gain entry to and that it currently harbours numerous active terrorist organisations.


Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t most of 9-11 perpetrators enter the US directly from places other than Canada? And weren’t they harboured quite nicely in the USA for months or years prior to the events, training in flight schools and such? I guess Dr. Condeleeza Rice will clear all this up for us shortly. Or maybe US President Bush, although he’s made a deal that he won’t be put under oath, and that their will be no record kept of his 9-11 commission testimony, but I’m sure that’s OK, too.


> Just because we have become rather civilised in the last couple of hundred years, doesn't mean that we have totally bred that old response out of our gene pool.


Ah yes, the “we don’t have any choice but to act as our grey-matter deprived, cave-dwelling forebears did, because it’s in our genes.” I would argue that those Neanderthals who relied on their half-baked hunches or racial prejudices and simply bashed those who were different looking then them are the ones whose genes are now in short supply. Unfortunately not short enough. 

Hmmm, Dubya kinda has that ape-like, knuckle-dragging look about him, doesn’t he.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

> One thing I always do is try to avoid any woman at customs and immigration, power seems to go to their head and they can give you a hard time. Honest, trust me on this!


lotus are you talking about American women, Canadian women, or just women in general?

That is quite a statement for a woman to make about women, but I sense it the voice of experience talking. 

Cheers


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## Pamela (Feb 20, 2003)

> One thing I always do is try to avoid any woman at customs and immigration, power seems to go to their head and they can give you a hard time. Honest, trust me on this!


That's the stupidist thing I've ever heard you say Lotus.  

My American husband crosses the border everyday, twice. I cross it Very often. And in his extensive experience, as well as mine, anybody in the position of power can give you a hard time. 

God. What a stupid thing to say.

And I'm surprised that anyone, especially You, Sinc, would condone such a thing to be said. I would assume You have some experience under Your belt too, no?  

And to get back to the topic, I would take the advice of the people saying bring EVERYTHING that can identify you down there. If it's for business, get a letter from your boss, if it's for school, get a letter from your teacher, if it's for healthcare, get a letter from your doctor, bring every piece of i.d. you have. And GET a passport. American's aren't f'ing around anymore. And if you don't want to ruin your day/vacation/trip....don't treat it lightly. And if they ask you for your passport and you don't have one...NEVER say....



> It is not mandatory and you can't force it on me until it becomes law.


hahahahahahahahha!!!!!!









[ April 07, 2004, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: Pamela ]


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

> And I'm surprised that anyone, especially You, Sinc, would condone such a thing to be said. I would assume You have some experience under Your belt too, no?


Pamela, I simply asked a question. I was curious to know which women she referred to.

And I do have enough experience under my belt to know that I neither agreed with, nor condoned her stated opinion, something you would recognize had you read my post carefully and without emotion.

Cheers


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## canuck1975 (Dec 7, 2003)

The worst border experiences I've had (entering the US and entering the UK) were both with men.

Go figure.


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## Pamela (Feb 20, 2003)

well when one ends every post with cheers and a smile it's hard to clearly understand*what* position they take on a comment. And this statement:

*but I sense it is the voice of experience talking. 
* 

sounds like you're excusing someone for stating such an obviously sexist comment.

Sorry if I brought emotion into reading it. How dare I be human. Geez.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

> well when one ends every post with cheers and a smile it's hard to clearly understand*what* position they take on a comment.


Those who read and comprehend, have never mentioned the "cheers and smile" as being a problem when interpreting my posts.



> but I sense it is the voice of experience talking.


Again just a simple conclusion from lotus' post, assuming she had trouble with a female customs agent.

No opinion, no bias, no sexism.

Cheers


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Try getting caught between the US and Canada because you are a citizen of both countries. It happened to me because I entered the US on my US Passport, and returned to Canada with my Canadian Citizenship Card. The US had no record of me as a Canadian entering the US, and Canada wanted to know how I got out of Canada to return here from the US. Luckily, the Canadian Immigration person (I shall not reveal his/her gender) did NOT know Canadian geography, because when he/she asked where I was headed, I replied "Newfoundland and Labrador". The person, I speculate, did not know if this was in Canada, Europe or the Carribean, and so he/she allowed me to reenter Canada without anymore hassle.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

My girlfriend and I drove to Niagara, New York state today from
Toronto and found that the border crossing at about 12:00
noon only took us 10 minutes with our passports.

On the way back at about 4:30 pm it was about the same,
If not less with the passports. (I was looking for a camera filter
but came up empty handed, My girlfriend got everything she wanted, 
Heck they didn't even check in our car on the way back,
They just asked us what we bought and then waved us
through, I should have bought beer)

The only thing I didn't like is that it's free to go to the States,
But it costs $3.50 to get back into Canada.
(Also what's with all the toll highways in the U.S.)

Dave


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## Pamela (Feb 20, 2003)

*Those who read and comprehend,* 

What a passive agressive and condescending answer Sinc.

I have nothing more to say to you showing that kind of lack of respect for another ehmac member.

But maybe I've *misunderstood* once again.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

> Try getting caught between the US and Canada because you are a citizen of both countries.


I remember when I went to England from Italy in the 70's,
I had a double passport at the time, Essentially it's a Canadian
passport with a right to abode stamp in the passport.
I don't have that anymore, It's actually cheaper to have two
passports nowadays. (Canadian and British passports)

Anyways...
When I went into Britain I got stuff duty free and when I left
Britain I got stuff duty free.

Sometimes being a dual citizen has it's perks.

Dave


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

> I have nothing more to say to you showing that kind of lack of respect for another ehmac member.


Pamela, my apologies if you found "Those who read and comprehend" offensive to you personally. That's why I used the term "those" and not "you".

I simply meant that if my original post was fully understood, it did NOT carry the type of content that you accused me of making. Witness you were the ONLY one who took it that way, so far at least.

I have the utmost respect for all ehMac members including you, but I do not take lightly being labelled a "sexist" for asking a question. 

If you have an issue with the comment, take it up with the person who made it and leave me out of it. I will oppose to the end being accused of something I am not.

Please let's put this behind us and carry with the discussion in a progressive manner.

Cheers


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Slightly off topic here, but I think it bears saying...

Pamela. I'm not sure what has set you off so much lately, but I assure you that I've read and re-read SINC's post and I can't see anything sexist or hateful about it. 

I recall, not so terribly long ago, when you were up late one night cramming for an architectural exam and you asked all of us for some support to help you get through the tough moments. We all chimed in and offered you some heartfelt thoughts and prayed for your sucess, myself included....and you thanked us, rather profusely, for our communal support. Just like we were family.

It was a good moment.  

Recently though, you seem to be all too ready to take offense. Even where none is meant.

Which is really too bad. Really.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

I think we all need to take a deep breath and get this thread back on track.

FWIW, I have a friend who goes to Seattle every once in a while. He takes his passport and his drivers license. When they ask him why he's going he says "Seahawks game" or "Man. United Football game" or whatever he is going to do. He never has any trouble at the border going south or north.

In other words, be clear and concise about your intentions and bring your ID (because whether you "need" it or not, it's just smart to have).


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## Pamela (Feb 20, 2003)

Like I was saying, my husband works in Bellingham so he crosses the border every morning at 6am. He is an american citizen and a canadian landed immigrant. He usually gets the same questions and it's usually pretty routine (although he was growing a goatee for a bit and started getting harassed at the border more..go figure. And when we had the cargo box on the car in the winter he'd get a little more hassle too). But the other day he was going down like normal, and the american border guard asked him why, he said work, guard asked what kind, he said sprinkler fitting, and usually at this point the guard would let him go...but this time the guard asked what kind of pipe he uses on the job.....totally threw my husband off...but of course he answered correctly.

Now, THAT is a good border guard.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Just for your edification Pamela...I have been suspended for exactly ONE single day in almost two and a half years, and that was after more than four thousand four hundred posts.

Just thought you'd like to know.


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## Pamela (Feb 20, 2003)

Don't you think once is too many?


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Definitely.

But not unexpected, considering my high profile here and my opionated nature. Neither of which will ever change.

And so it goes.  

(BTW...check your PM's Pamela.)


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## Pamela (Feb 20, 2003)

and so it goes that some of us get offended by your opiniated nature.

Not so hard to understand is it.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Understood. It has always been that way.

You should see the emails I get.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

This all reminds me of the old days with the M.A.G.I.C. B.B.S.
It still sounds silly.

Back to the border crossing...
I noticed that the American (USA'ians) version of Molson
Canadian beer is actually a little sweeter in flavour than the
Molson Canadian beer that we have here in Canada.
(We went for lunch at Applebee's)

The cowboy burger tasted terrible...
Must have been the smokey style sauce.

Dave


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## Pamela (Feb 20, 2003)

I have taken offence *TWICE* "lately".

Once by you, macnutt, because of your "way" of expressing your opinion. Ever thought that it's possible that you could offend someone in the way you speak? How many times have you been suspended/on probation?

And in this post with sinc, which has nothing to do with you macnutt, I was offended by Lotus' comment. Rightfully so I might add. And Sinc was the only person that responded to her comment and I was surprised how, in his comment, he didn't seem to take much offense to it, but rather kind of seemed to excuse it because of her apparent "experience". That's how I took it. It is possible that I took it wrong, but I asked it as an open ended question for him to respond to.



> And I'm surprised that anyone, especially You, Sinc, would condone such a thing to be said. I would assume You have some experience under Your belt too, no?


And for the record, I never called you sexist Sinc,...so I'm not the only one confusing posts. I called Lotus' comment sexist.

And maybe I'm the only one with a problem a certain post whether it be Lotus' or your post addressed to me, Sinc , but does that make my opinion/taking offense any less valid? Nobody else has commented on Lotus' sexist comment (other than you), so does that mean I'm exaggerating there too?

Shall I count how many times you have been set off macnutt?

I'd like to put this to rest. I've said all I have to say, and I'll never apologize for being offended. Everyone has their right. As far as I've experience in "real life", when one is offended it is up to the person that apparently offended the other to clear up their position. And Sinc started to, but should have stopped after the first sentence....



> Pamela, I simply asked a question. I was curious to know which women she referred to.


But he decided to continue, implying that I didn't understand him because of emotion. 



> And I do have enough experience under my belt to know that I neither agreed with, nor condoned her stated opinion, something you would recognize had you read my post carefully and without emotion.


Needless to say, then, and after that I just wasn't very impressed with the way he was talking to me. End of story.

[ April 08, 2004, 12:18 AM: Message edited by: Pamela ]


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Macnutt, a small part* of my reasoning in becoming a Canadian citizen was to alleviate some of the hassle in crossing the border with a British passport. But I doubt it will make much difference in the end.

The US has often been clumsy in "welcoming" guests. Try flying into Miami from South America without a US passport. Indeed, there is a little known policy (to Canadians) at Pearson whereby US citizens are quiety identified in the line-up and directed to a fast line (this is not the Speed Pass system).

Such differential treatment is, of course, their perogative but it hardly sets the stage for equality of human rights or respect for all of humanity.

* Another reason was to provide 3 more votes for Paul Martin. Harper's policies scare me.


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## canuck1975 (Dec 7, 2003)

_Indeed, there is a little known policy (to Canadians) at Pearson whereby US citizens are quiety identified in the line-up and directed to a fast line_

Can you elaborate on this? Do all airlines participate, or is it dedicated to specific ones? And how do the customs officials know who are US Citizens vs. Canadian (or other) citizens?

If there is this kind of discrimination it's definitely something we should be aware of!


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

> And how do the customs officials know who are US Citizens vs. Canadian (or other) citizens?


Americans have this latest fad...They have the letters
"U.S. Citizen" printed on their foreheads in infrared ink.
It's easy for the Canada customs to filter them out.

They have the same system for our softwood lumber.

Dave


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Hi Canuck,

I was told the tale yesterday by a US colleague I work with (he lives in Canada but travels on a US passport). I think its just Terminal 2 at Pearson (US-bound Air Canada/United flights still go from T2). I very much doubt its official given the person pulling the people is not uniformed and it only applies when there is a backlog of people. The Customs/Immigration Hall at T2 is considered quasi-US territory and is subject to US Federal Administration. I've seen cell phones confiscated in the line-up after people were warned not to make cell calls.

The trick with passing US customs at Terminal 2 (as long as there's no carry-on baggage) is to arrive only 30 mins before your flight. Then they fast track you. It pisses me off when I'm standing in line at 9:30 for a 11:15 flight and at 10:30 people are pulled from the back of the line because they have an 11 am flight. I've never arrived late but then I also try to travel early in the morning or in the afternoon.

But such is the joy of flying to the US.


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## lotus (Jun 29, 2002)

Pamela, if my previous post upset you perhaps you shouldn't read this one.

Sinc and Macnutt, I am sorry that you got blasted for something that I said. An unfortunate reaction.

Sinc, in answer to your question, I was referring to some women in power and authority (both Canadian and American). I have come to this conclusion after years of experience and observation and make no apologies for my comment.

As you know, while in high school I started working in a gas station. For 12 years I worked in an office environment (2000 employees) of a large company, transferring to Toronto to establish a Canadian Head Ofice. I was scheduled to return to the states and begin work with RAMAC. Instead I chose to stay home for the next 20 years to raise my family and participate in community activities. For the next 12 years I managed a thriving retail store. 

These experiences have given me the exceptional opportunity to observe hundreds of people and form my opinions.

Do you remember one of my favourite Canadians, Charlotte Whitton? She was the first woman to become mayor of a large Canadian city (Ottawa). Her famous quote was "Whatever women do, they must do it twice as well as men to be thought half as good". Unfortunately some women seem to think they need a sledge hammer to crack the glass ceiling!

While we are talking about women my 3 pet peeves are - women smoking a cigarette while walking down the street - women who drink too much and women who swear and use profane language.

If all this is politically incorrect or sexiest - so be it!

Urban_Legend, pardon me for taking this thread so far, far off topic. That was not my intention. 

"Nothing in the world is more haughty than a man of moderate capacity when once raised to power." Baron Wessenberg


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Lotus....

From what I have read of your posts at this forum...and I've read every single one of them with great interest...I can only conclude that you are a wise and experienced human being who has been a keen observer during your journey through life.

I have no reason to think that you would ever purposely mislead any of us. On any subject.

Consequently...when you choose to share your observations with the rest of us on some subject that has caught your attention, then I will listen. Intently.

In this particular case, I think you've hit the nail on the head. You've also pointed out the reasons for this behavior. Makes sense to me.

Sorry if this upsets some of the people reading this thread. No offense meant.

Just the way it is. Right now.

The future will be better though. There will be less pressure to "prove oneself" once gender issues are finally laid to rest.

Trust me on this


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

lotus:


> I have come to this conclusion after years of experience and observation and make no apologies for my comment.


You are a woman of conviction to be sure, lotus. And said without emotion as well. 



> If all this is politically incorrect or sexiest - so be it!


There are times when younger people just don't get it lotus. But we just have to forgive them.


Cheers


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

They'll certainly "get it" eventually. We can be sure of that.

Until then, best to be tolerant of their occasional outrage. We were there, at one point, ourselves. And we raised unholy hell about what we thought was wrong with the world around us.

It changed things. Mostly for the better.  

Their current outrage will change the world once again. Mostly for the better. Overall...this is a natural and positive process. Both we elders and the younger generation need to look past the excesses and celebrate the accomplishments.

Of both generations.

Just my 2 cents worth.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Lotus: "While we are talking about women my 3 pet peeves are - women smoking a cigarette while walking down the street - women who drink too much and women who swear and use profane language."

What I really do not understand is why there is the need to identify women as the subject of these peeves? Are they not equally applicable to men? If so, why the qualifier? If not, what the heck is the difference?

Here's a test: Do you find the sentence below offensive? If yes, see my first question. If no, see a shrink.

"My 3 pet peeves are - homosexuals smoking a cigarette while walking down the street - homosexuals who drink too much and homosexuals who swear and use profane language."


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## Pamela (Feb 20, 2003)

Thank God for chiming in Jwoodget. I thought I was going crazy. I knew I couldn't be the only one who found it offensive.


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## Roland (Aug 15, 2002)

I dislike anyone smoking a cigarette if they're close to me.

That.. in my mind.. is truely offensive.


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## canuck1975 (Dec 7, 2003)

I'm a bit curious about the women comments as well, seeing as I wonder where it ends:

_My 3 pet peeves are - ****** smoking a cigarette while walking down the street - ***** who drink too much and ******* who swear and use profane language._

I only use the derogatory terms in a demonstrative manner and I do not believe that any of those statements are true. All three of them are incredibly racist and disgusting, yet they really are the same thing as saying "women" or "homosexuals" or "men" or whatever defined group you want it to be. 

And now back to our regularly scheduled therad posting dot dot dot



> I very much doubt its official given the person pulling the people is not uniformed and it only applies when there is a backlog of people. The Customs/Immigration Hall at T2 is considered quasi-US territory and is subject to US Federal Administration.


OK, so is this happening to US Citizens flying back to the US? I don't think that's a terribly bad thing, just as I wouldn't think twice if I were plucked out of a line-up for Canadian Customs on my return (ahead of someone who isn't a Canadian citizen/landed immigrant).


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