# Martimes vs. Atlantic Canada



## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Why do (some of) the media refer to the Atlantic Provices as the Maritimes? It's my (and others, I'd wager) understanding that the Maritimes are made up of New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and P.E.I., whereas Atlantic Canada is made up of the Maritime provinces including Newfoundland and Labrador. 

Is it splitting hairs? Probably. Frankly, I don't understand why people bother with the two distinctions. However, CTV Morning news revealed Sir Paul McCartney was planning on visiting the "Maritimes" in protest of the seal hunt.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...228/paul_seal_hunt_060228/20060228?hub=Canada



> Paul and Heather McCartney are set to visit the Maritimes later this week to observe harp seal pups before Canada's annual seal hunt.
> 
> ...
> 
> The Canadian government has endorsed the hunt as a cultural right for many Maritimers.


I thought the slaughter took place in and around Newfoundland and Labrador? Or are we getting into semantics? From what I've seen, CBC refers to it as the Atlantic seal hunt.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Your definition MannyP, is the one I have used for many years.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Manny, the term Maritimes was used prior to NL entering Canadian Confederation on April 1, 1949. When NL joined confederation, the term was expanded to Atlantic Provinces to avoid confusion, since there were still groups that represented the Maritime Provinces of NS, NB and PEI. 

The seal hunt ranges from off the coast of Labrador to around Sable Island near NS. There are not too many seals being born this season, due to the lack of pack ice, and even fewer being harvested, in that the ice is too far off shore to make it worthwhile.

Baby seals are not harvested anymore, and only a quota of seals is harvested each year. With a conservative estimate of 5 million+ harp seals, they are not an endangered species. While I don't wear any sort of fur product, I do understand the reason behind the seal harvest. It is like someone in Hull being told that they could no longer work for the Federal government, even though they are qualified. So, they go work for the Quebec government. This was the effect of nearly the entire fishing fleet being told that Canadians could no longer fish off the coast of NL for certain species of fish, even though foreign draggers were still doing so, albeit illegally, but without any reprimands from the Canadian government. So, Hull federal workers lose their employer, but find alternate employment in PQ. NL fish harvesters went to other species of fish and crab, and turned to sealing rather then go on welfare.

I have always found it hard to hear people (not you, mind you) speak of the "lazy Newf", living on welfare, when the federal government put them out of work. These men and women still want to work, and attempt to stay in the industry as best they can. It is similar to when car plants close in Ontario. Imagine ALL of the car manufacturing plants in ALL of Ontario being closed on a certain date? Imagine the impact upon the Ontario economy and the well-being of all of the displaced workers? This is what took place in NL with the Moratorium.

Paix, mon ami.


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## mannypwife (Feb 15, 2005)

Don't worry about ever offending us Dr.G - we're originally from New Brunswick and know about not being able to find work. That is how we ended up in the NCR.
We would have much rather been able to find good jobs and stayed in the Maritimes with friends and family- that is still home to us.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Ms.P., yes, far too many people from our region have to go elsewhere to find work. When my wife came here in 1994, she rented a Ryder truck to bring all of her belongings. She was able to rent it for 25% of the fee that was being charged to drive from St.John's to Calgary. She drove from Calgary to St.John's in 10 days.

You little one is very cute. Don't you also own a doxie named Jack?


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## mannypwife (Feb 15, 2005)

Yup, we are blessed to have Captain Jack as a wonderful playmate for our son... They are going to be holy terrors when Xander really gets walking/running


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Two great pics. So long as Xander respects Jack's back and ears, they will do well together. I can just imagine him in our house with 4 adult doxies and 4 doxie puppies.


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## Paul O'Keefe (Jun 3, 2005)

I'm still trying to find out if seals are completely used. Sure you hear and see people buying and selling seal flippers to eat... but what about the rest? Does any other meat from the animal get eaten? Does the fat get made into oil? It's mainly all about the pelts.

I know that cattle and pork and poultry get almost every bit of the animal used up. But I'm not sure about seals.

I'm always disappointed that many of the people who defend the fishery or seal hunt in Newfoundland do not eat fish or seal to any wide degree. We mainly do this for export.


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## ErnstNL (Apr 12, 2003)

Sorry to continue to derail the thread, I'll be brief:
What's used from a seal?

Leather-type products are in vogue these days, even in Europe and the pelts are bringing high prices.

Omega-3 source from Seal oil: Very healthy!!
http://www.omegaplus.nf.ca/index.htm

Information:
http://www.sealharvest.ca/html/press_releases.html#Product


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

The Merrytimes may be on Sir Paul's travels itinerary as a result of the Gulf of St. Lawrence seal harvest, cull, hunt, slaughter -- pick your favourite descriptor.

PE Islanders, Nova Scotians and New Brunswickers (as well as folks from Western NL and the Magdalen Islands and other parts of Quebec) can literally walk off shore onto the Gulf's ice flows (icebergs in the quote) to acquire the adult seals.

Sir Paul's trip may fruitless this year however. The ice never really formed in the Gulf this year. We're always glad to have visitors and breakout the good dishes. 



> Canadian Seal Tragedy
> 
> Hundreds of baby seals were washed out to sea and drowned as a howling winter storm lashed a small island between Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island. Canadian fisheries officials believe that 75 percent of the estimated 3,000 grey seal pups born on the shores of Pictou Island perished during the tempest. Seals normally give birth on icebergs in the Gulf of St. Lawrence. But unusually warm weather this winter kept the ice from forming and forced the pregnant seal mothers to come to the island. Eyewitnesses say the seal pups were too young to be able to swim, and their mothers attempted to keep them afloat after being washed offshore. "But after the sixth or seventh wave, the pups didn't come up," said Jane MacDonald. Dozens of white-coated carcasses littered the shoreline following the storm.you may find the quoted reference here


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

BigDL, I doubt that they are here to see any of the "locals". Unless you fit into a photo-op, don't count on a surprise visit.


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## trump (Dec 7, 2004)

wow, I had absolutely no idea that there was a difference between the two terms


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

They even get different weather. Witness the recent snowfall in Newfoundland and Labrador compared to the Maritimes.


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## JAMG (Apr 1, 2003)

Local distinctions are held directly porportional to the area... most Quebecers could not name the eastern provinces on a map, most west of Quaebec wonder why they don't share a common provincial government...

Not slamming anyone, but it is like trying to explain to anyone outside the GTA that Hamilton, Oshawa and Mississauga are not actually part of the city of Toronto...

No matter how technically correct the division is, most do not see it...


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

JAMG said:


> Not slamming anyone, but it is like trying to explain to anyone outside the GTA that Hamilton, Oshawa and Mississauga are not actually part of the city of Toronto...
> 
> No matter how technically correct the division is, most do not see it...


That is so sad. I went to school in the 50s and early 60s and I very clearly understand, both then and now the geography and even the capitols of each and every province.

I also understand clearly the divisions around Toronto just by reading news reports or watching TV news over the years.

If your thoughts on the matter are true, then our education system has severely deteriorated over the years, as has instilling the importance of keeping up on current events as an integral part of a Canadian's responsibility in society.

Perhaps it is no wonder so few bother to vote if they don't bother to understand the issues. If education is schools doesn't do at least this much, it has failed.


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## JAMG (Apr 1, 2003)

I blame personal apathy more than our educational system...
I was by no means an honour student, but I am continually amazed that what I consider "Common Knowledge" is unheard of by my people I encounter.

And I'm not bragging about how much I know...


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Nor am I.

I simply state that when I went to school, we all knew these things and that was 50 years ago. What has changed?


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

SINC said:


> Nor am I.
> 
> I simply state that when I went to school, we all knew these things and that was 50 years ago. What has changed?


Television and 300+ channels, computers, internet, video games, violence, population explosion, exporting of jobs, centralization of services, almagamation of communities, spellchecker, mega corporations, big box stores, larger classroom sizes, growing tuition, empty churches, growing gangs, guns in schools, brand name worship, Donald Trump... pick one.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

« MannyP Design » said:


> Television and 300+ channels, computers, internet, video games, violence, population explosion, exporting of jobs, centralization of services, almagamation of communities, spellchecker, mega corporations, big box stores, larger classroom sizes, growing tuition, empty churches, growing gangs, guns in schools, brand name worship, Donald Trump... pick one.


OK. Class size. Current standard for Alberta is 26 max.

My yearbook grades 8 through 12 show each class much larger than that. Lowest was 31, highest was 36. (Saskatchewan 1958 - 1962.)

And shouldn't access to all those channels and computers make it easier, not harder for staying abreast of current events.

One thing that has changed is schools no longer appear to teach the importance of life long learning, thus my thoughts on current education changes. Am I wrong?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sinc, why not start a thread on our perceptions of "current education changes"? Just a thought.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

SINC said:


> And shouldn't access to all those channels and computers make it easier, not harder for staying abreast of current events.
> 
> One thing that has changed is schools no longer appear to teach the importance of life long learning, thus my thoughts on current education changes. Am I wrong?


Theoretically, yes... however I'd wager kids don't spend time keeping up with current events nearly as much as they do watching cartoons, playing video games, surfing for fight videos, skateboard accidents, and porn.

I think a part of the problem with schools is the use of technology, as odd as it sounds. Teachers are stretched thin enough as it is; now they're expected to be savvy enough to maintain their lab because the tech that comes in once a week can't address all of their problems, or they simply do not have enough money for computers for all the children so they double up. I have a hard time believing that kids actually benefit from using computers... they're being socially detached from their instructor to stare at a screen. Where's the benefit of that?

Also, the other part of that problem are the parents--what are they doing to enrich their child's life? Bribe them with an Xbox 360 if they get good grades? What lasting effect will that have on them?

I think the more time children spend away from technology (initially), the better, IMHO. Computers steal creativity... it offers an easy means to an end. For example: A lot of the designers that are graduating these days have almost zero drawing ability... they don't believe it's a necessity! A Graphic Designer that can't draw? You couldn't go far 20 years ago without some semblance of drawing skill. It was a means of communicating ideas. There are Illustrators who can't even convey proper perspective--on a computer of all things!

The obvious thing, I think, is to drill kids heads with the basics--without using technology--for grades one through nine; teach them to use their brain and not rely on a machine to tell them what to think. Once they've mastered the basics... then introduce computers.

I like the idea of building a foundation before introducing advanced concepts... it gives you a frame of reference of where you've (we've) been, where you're (we're) at, and where you're (we're) going--why things are the way they are. Today, everything is immediate--fast food, immediate communication at all times (anywhere and anytime), and quick turn-arounds.

Get them in a bare-bones environment free from distractions: Paper, books and pencils. And some more art-related activities that are more than once a week could help as well.

And get the sugar out of the school... I'm sure you'd see a rapid decline in ADD diagnosed kids once that happens.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Good ideas all, Manny.

Can't disagree with a one of 'em.


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## VVA88IT (Aug 21, 2005)

Well, according to Sir Paul on CNN last night, being in Charlottetown is being "right here" in Newfoundland.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

VVA, I was amazed when he said that, as well as Larry King calling Newfoundland "New Finland". I grew up in New York City calling it "New fun lund", but when I came here I was told "Newfoundland rhymes with understand" and have pronounced it correctly ever since. 

I lost a great deal of respect for both Larry King and Sir Paul. His wife is something else.

Full disclosure -- I have lived here in St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador for 29 years. I don't openly support the seal hunt, but I understand why it takes place each year. I don't wear or buy fur, but I don't say anything to anyone who wears such clothing. I do eat meat, fish, game, fowl, etc.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Manny you're completely out lunch and I pity your kids if you take that approach.

and Sinc you didn't even know the gold standard was gone 100 years ago so don't tell me how current YOU are or were.

Enriched environments means access to all sorts of physical and technological sources and let the kids decide - you don't FORCE creativity you can only provide access to the materials and opportunities and examples.

You haven't a clue where your kids talents will lie or their interests and kids are amazing at switching between interests that will change over time and you can't control it nor in my mind should you.

Force fed kids WILL rebel sooner or later even IF you identify talents early.
You have the delight, angst and responsibility of living with another unique *individual* as they grow.

They will never BE what YOU want. Just as with a play yard all you can do is provide some fences with a whole bunch of interesting things inside and let them loose and some days it will be the fancy swing set and some days a mud puddle and somedays nothing at all.

Have fun, don't sweat it and enjoy. Kids know the differences - parents often don't and just get in the way of their growth both intellectually and in all other ways.

If you think you're doing them some sort of good restricting them from technology I'd say you're completely wrong in that approach - you're just blocking one area of "enrichment" for no good reason.

If anything the neutrality of technology lets kids get out from under parent and teacher timing and "expectation" and learn at their speed and without being judged all the time.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

MacDoc said:


> Manny you're completely out lunch and I pity your kids if you take that approach.
> 
> and Sinc you didn't even know the gold standard was gone 100 years ago so don't tell me how current YOU are or were.


Manny, isn't it interesting that there is only one guy on this board who is always right?


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Dr.G. said:


> VVA, I was amazed when he said that, as well as Larry King calling Newfoundland "New Finland". I grew up in New York City calling it "New fun lund", but when I came here I was told "Newfoundland rhymes with understand" and have pronounced it correctly ever since.
> 
> I lost a great deal of respect for both Larry King and Sir Paul. His wife is something else.


Hopefully not because of pronunciation. 

I was wondering how it went. How did Danny handle himself, or was it not a discussion format?


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## VVA88IT (Aug 21, 2005)

Dr. G., 

That was quite a piece of thoughtful debate last night with Lady Heather's "Rubbish .... Rubbish .... Rubbish" and Sir Paul's PM Harper should get on board because his "name is Harper and these are harp seals"

Beej, here's the transcript:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0603/03/lkl.01.html


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Thanks for the link VVA88IT. Standard activist stuff. Some reasonable points backed up with misinformation. Williams made some good points, but lapsed a few times. I didn't see that King did anything wrong, but I'm not sure about his tone and body language. 

All in all, this is what enviro-activists do. Credible environmental concerns don't get much media attention, but are given attention in the right places (regulators and governments, not TV), but the loudest and most famous use the media. This serves a valuable purpose, up to the point where they lose sight of reality. Greenpeace faced this problem. 

It's always good for perspective when you hear about other 'bad' stuff happening: maybe, just maybe, the friendly activists are not intellectually honest and/or not fully informed. Or maybe they're right. It's really tough for the average citizen to say.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

EDIT: The wife, as usual, puts my thoughts into a much more *ahem* concise way.




MacDoc said:


> Manny you're completely out lunch and I pity your kids if you take that approach.


You're a brilliant man. :lmao:

I'm done for tonight. I'm going to go play peekaboo with my son, now.


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

To once again derail this thread into a discussion of a Merrytyme and Atlantic Canadian slant.

I wonder what the economical impact of this kind of protest has on the local economy. 

Never thought i would say this but God Bless the Super Rich with their cult of celebrity and a media entourage. 

PEI and the Magdalen Island benefited from this form of Eco-Tourism. Hotels, small air lines and helicopter "taxis" not to for get about restaurants, taxis, car and maybe even limo rentals. Newfoundland became the centre of discussion though.

Over the last few tourist seasons of all things tourists wanted to see for themselves the infamous Sydney Tar Ponds. It became a major tourist destination. Without any promotion. Well except the news.

Forget mother of a mountain or white gold *Eco-Infamy!* A new angle that shall perhaps extend the Atlantic Canadian tourist season. :clap:


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## mannypwife (Feb 15, 2005)

MacDoc said:


> Manny you're completely out lunch and I pity your kids if you take that approach.


Even if I wasn't married to Manny, I think I would be taken aback by this comment. Let's see- if I read Manny's post correctly, he is advocating empowering children with the ability to think, reason, create and learn on their own without the "benefits" of technology. I think the meat of the post was this:



« MannyP Design » said:


> I like the idea of building a foundation before introducing advanced concepts...


Who can argue with that? 

I love my Powerbook as much as the next person, and the internet has allowed me to become acquainted with people from all over the globe- those are fantastic benefits. But, I must say, it makes me sad to go online and try to decipher the illiterate posts of someone who has English as a first language, but never learned to write. It bothers me when I'm at a restaurant and the people I'm with can't even hazard a guess as to how much 15% of the bill would equal. 

Now, I know that not everyone will be a math whiz or grammar expert, but a lot of kids may never find out if they have natural talents related to math, or writing etc. because it is becoming the norm to conduct these activities under the watchful eye of a computer processor.

I don't advocate abstaining from technology, I feel that it is an unavoidable and even welcome benefit to being alive in this moment in history (I like my dishwasher, cell phone and car). I do, however, feel that technology is a tool, and should be used as such. Use technology (computers, calculators etc) to complement and enhance a child's learning experience, don't just hand them a machine that gives them all the answers.

Anyway, enough from me, since my son was receiving some unnecessary pity, it inspired me to post. By the way, don't worry about Xander, he will be fairly well balanced in his opportunities. I am a self-confessed bookworm and scientific kind of gal (I loved school, gasp!), Manny is just about the most creative and artistic guy I've ever met, and Xan's Uncle Zac is super athletic. Hell, even the dog is teaching him how to get into the garbage- this kid is learning from all directions.

And, oh yeah, wasn't this thread about geography or seals or something?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

mannypwife said:


> Hell, even the dog is teaching him how to get into the garbage- this kid is learning from all directions.
> 
> And, oh yeah, wasn't this thread about geography or seals or something?


:clap: :clap: 

Take a bow mannypwife. If I didn't think MannyP would object, I'd give ya a smooch on the cheek.

There are times that Macdoc just blows through a thread with what appears to be gut reaction with little thought.

This is one of those times, and while his motives might be OK, his blanket assessment of us having inferior intellect comes through much too strong.

But fear not, he knows when he is wrong. He just never admits it!


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Me, object?

It depends on which cheek you are referring to.  

I decided to severely trim my previous post--realized it wasn't worth it. Laura's post put's my POV in a more concise and *ahem* polite way.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Educating children in a stimulating, language-rich environment is crucial for child development. The development of schema (i.e., one's background of knowledge and experiences) needs to be undertaken in an eclectic, enriching and challenging enviroment. This is done with a balanced view of Life's experiences. The computer is no more important than blocks, sitting in a mother or father's lap being read to, or trying to "make one's mark" with crayon and paper. There is a time and place for all of these experiences.


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## mannypwife (Feb 15, 2005)

Dr. G- you are amazing. That exactly captures the spirit of how I feel about this issue. Thank you.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Ms.Manny (don't know your name, so this shall surfice I trust), I am an educator, a teacher and a parent. Each experience has taught me something different about child development.


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

Right, read the transcript earlier today. Seemed like it was pretty empty of content. I didn't think that the host did much to allow Danny to speak. Don't think the others were once asked to shut up and let him finish. It was fairly well slanted against him, I thought, at least from the transcript. The bit of geography was pretty hysterical.
I did, however, appreciate the information about what other parts of the seal are used. I am able to be more understanding of the hunt knowing that there is genuine effort to use all of the animal, not simply the pelt.


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

Oh, and I had always understood that Newfoundland and Labrador were a part of the Maritimes. Given that they are, you know, a Maritime area by definition...


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

RevMatt, the term "Maritime provinces" was used prior to NL joining Canadian Confederation. When we did join in 1949, the used the term "Atlantic Provinces" to include us.


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

See, now, that is something I did not know. Hrm, I have learned three or four things today. Does that mean I get a couple of days off from learning? If so, I would like to schedule them for a later time. Too much to do next week...

Seriously, that feels like a bit of an odd distinction to me, to be honest. Not sure I truly understand why it matters. But fair enough. I will watch my terminology. I guess this means I can say I've been to all the Maritime provinces now, though...


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

There are all sorts of laws and institutions that pertain to the Maritime provinces. 

For example, http://www.mphec.ca/
http://www.canadiancouncilbbb.ca/maritimesmatch.html


For the Canadian Encyclopedia's take on the matter

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0005113

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0000380


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