# Primus Unlimited now Limited



## dwp (Aug 12, 2003)

I received this email from Primus last week regarding the changes to their unlimited internet packages.

_Dear dwp,

As you may have heard, the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) has recently approved Bell Canada’s request to introduce Usage Based Billing on wholesale Internet services.

The CRTC’s decision directly affects the High-Speed Internet service provided to you by Primus Canada and, unfortunately, the newly associated costs to Primus make the unlimited Internet service you are now enjoying no longer financially viable. This serves as 30 days notice that beginning February 1, 2011 there will be changes to your Internet service provided by Primus.

As a result, the following changes will apply commencing your February invoice:

Your existing High Speed Internet plan will now have 25GB of monthly usage included
For the minority of customers who exceed this amount, additional usage up to 300GB will be charged at $2.00/GB to a maximum of $60.00/month. Usage in excess of 300GB per month will be charged an additional $1.10/GB
Additional Usage Plans can be purchased starting at $5/month for an additional 40GB_

I went over to the Rogers site and discovered that they also have usage tiers as well. I guess this is inevitable given the fact that the internet will eventually replace tv and radio as we presently know it. 

Are all isp's changing over to pay by use now? Do Rogers (Shaw, Cogeco, Videotron) and Bell control most of the internet service in Canada?
Are there any independent isp left in Canada?

Bad enough that our media is controlled by a few companies, but now it seems that the distribution of information is controlled by the same few companies and it's about to get a whole lot more expensive!


----------



## Newdeal (Nov 2, 2009)

That is definately a huge change, and not only that it really reduces their competitiveness. Those data rates are more than I pay out here in the boonies using internet with motorola canopy equipment (30gb and 1.50 per additional gb). I thought I had it pretty rough living outside cable and dsl areas. My service provider is neighbourhood wireless, they are basically using a system from a company called talk wireless and service from a company called IAW so there are still ISPs outside rogers and bell


----------



## dwp (Aug 12, 2003)

I dug a bit deeper and discovered this page on the Primus website;

https://secure.primustel.ca/en/residential/dsl/ubb/index.html

Bell's internet service;

Features - Bell Internet: Fibe 6

So it looks like Usage Based Billing is the next bright idea in the corporate world.

Ironic that cell phone providers are pushing "unlimited" in all of their advertising and the isp are now going from "unlimited" to Usage Based Billing.

Bizarre


----------



## Paul82 (Sep 19, 2007)

I got the same email this week, though it also showed my usage for Nov, but I don't think it is accurate, said I used almost 1500GB in the month... I am the first to admit that I am a heavy user, but this is 3-4 times my average month usage, and more than double my highest month before... I just find is more than a little suspicious that my usage would spike that much in the month before they move to usage based broadband... For the record its back down to "normal" for December...

In addition to the 3 additional usage plans they are offering on the website, the customer service rep offered me a 4th on that is unlimited usage but an extra $39 a month. It's not really all that great a deal... but it's convinced me not to cancel my service with them for now. I am definitely looking for other unlimited providers in Ottawa if anyone has any suggestions... so far the only one I've found that looks promising is Teksavy Cable once it is out here...

I know there are other DSL options, but they will all be affected by the new usage based billing...

I am rather disappointed in primus though as for many of their customers they use their own equipment and thus do not have to switch over to UBB... it's just a cash grab....


----------



## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

I don't know why anyone is surprised by any of this - bandwidth usage caps have been around for a while now with Rogers AND Bell, and now Bell can pass it on to the companies they wholesale to as well. Usage based billing has become the norm in Canada and it has made some inroads in the US and elsewhere as well, though resistance to it has been fierce in the US and so far no company has attempted to roll it out on a large-scale basis there. There is a little more competition there - in SOME areas (Verizon's FIOS competes directly with Comcast's cable in the Northeast, for instance) and that may be keeping a lid on the move to caps for now. They're common in the UK and in Europe though and have been for some time.

Article about the US situation: Are Broadband Usage Caps Inevitable? - PCWorld Business Center

Article re: Bell

Bell’s New Bandwidth Caps Could Turn Canada Into an Oldteevee Wasteland: Online Video News «

Meanwhile, of course, we're being inundated with more and more opportunities to use huge amounts of bandwidth via services like NetFlix and Rogers' own On Demand online services. Here's your lollipop, kiddo...now PAY for it!


----------



## pcronin (Feb 20, 2005)

Looks like home internet will soon be a thing of the past. Can't wait to see reaction from Blizzard if a bunch of Canadian players cite "ISP being douches" as reason for quitting WoW/SC, because that's what I'll be doing when I get this letter from Bell on my "high speed" dsl of 1.24mbit/s. There's a pic floating on twitter et al that shows this same email with nearly a TB done in a month. Have to wonder if they are just sending these letters with a blanket maxed-out-for-your-Mbit/s-possible number stuck in to scare people. 

Welcome to the breaking of the 'net in Canada.


----------



## dwp (Aug 12, 2003)

I did some more searching around and found this list of independent isp in the Toronto area.

Canadian ISP - Select a province to search

Anyone have any experience with the ones listed?

Looking for unlimited dsl internet with home phone for about $69.95.



> I don't know why anyone is surprised by any of this - bandwidth usage caps have been around for a while now with Rogers AND Bell, and now Bell can pass it on to the companies they wholesale to as well. Usage based billing has become the norm in Canada and it has made some inroads in the US and elsewhere as well


I've been with Primus for years and frankly I am surprised (but really shouldn't be). With the amount of information/entertainment/communication going to the internet it shouldn't be surprising that the corporations who control the delivery of such services wouldn't try to get the maximum $ possible. These are the same masters who gouged us with overly high cell phone rates for years... we all remember the mysterious $6.95 system access fee that was a government/was not a government fee!



> Looks like home internet will soon be a thing of the past. Can't wait to see reaction from Blizzard


I don't understand this... who is Blizzard? And home internet a thing of the past?

Please explain... (the rest I'm ok with)


----------



## Paul82 (Sep 19, 2007)

Part of my issue with this is that to be honest I seriously question the accuracy of the bandwidth usage... The email I got was claiming nearly 1.5TB of usage in a month... And this is way more than I think I used... Though I don't have logs to back it up, I do have 12 months or previous usage data and it seems way out of line... For the one particular month they used as an example... Just seems fishy to me...


----------



## pcronin (Feb 20, 2005)

dwp said:


> I don't understand this... who is Blizzard? And home internet a thing of the past?
> 
> Please explain... (the rest I'm ok with)


Blizzard is one of the largest game companies in the world. Blizzard Entertainment

Home internet currently, but not for long, is the "big pipe". You(well most people) don't stream or download content over 3G to a phone. This change means that now your home internet is now the same as your 3G. Meaning that game patch could end up costing you money. Downloading apps, music, movies, TV from iTunes will cost you more money. Streaming from iTunes/Netflix/Youtube will cost you money. 

Think about your cable/sat TV. You want Discovery and A&E, well you have to also get TBS and Showcase. Now picture that you can only watch 4 hours of TV a month, and then it's $1.50/hour after that. Good plan eh?


----------



## dwp (Aug 12, 2003)

pcronin Thanks for the explanation! Time to load up on Rogers and BCE stock! Talk about a license to print money!



> Part of my issue with this is that to be honest I seriously question the accuracy of the bandwidth usage... The email I got was claiming nearly 1.5TB of usage in a month... And this is way more than I think I used... Though I don't have logs to back it up, I do have 12 months or previous usage data and it seems way out of line... For the one particular month they used as an example... Just seems fishy to me...


I hear you... my usage for November was 126 GB. For all of 2010 it was 243 GB up and 628 Down. Is that a lot? I have no idea. 
1.5 TB in a month seems very high. Incredibly high actually.

My son has PS3 and chats with his buddies while playing, my daughter watches tv shows on-line, I listen to internet radio most of the day as well as watch videos and whatever so I guess it all adds up.
I'll just try to find another company that can provide me with what I need at my price point. Primus is ok... no great feeling one way or another. Their bundle was a good deal at 69.95 for home phone, long distance and unlimited high speed. Wasn't the fastest in the world but a good deal for the price.
I'll see if there's something better.


----------



## jimbotelecom (May 29, 2009)

I've been a Bell dsl user from its first availability. My current status is unlimited usage. I use anywhere from 80 to 100 per month. I gather that I'm grandfathered as I don't see any unlimited offerings on their web site. It looks like Bell is gouging their competition with CRTC approval. 

I dislike Bell but prefer to deal with the infrastructure owner not a reseller. There's way too much finger pointing when reseller problems occur. With Bell I simply file a complaint with the office of the president and cc the CRTC. I always have their full attention quickly.


----------



## steviewhy (Oct 21, 2010)

sudo rm -rf /


----------



## jimbotelecom (May 29, 2009)

Teksavvy has a good rep. They do not offer service in Ottawa. I suspect that they too will be forced to deal with re-pricing their offerings due to the new rules. It's going to be interesting when LTE offerings are made available.


----------



## Snowy (Dec 13, 2008)

A few years back I had an account with Compusmart, they had a cap on the time/downloading for internet usage.
Every ISP had this in place.
That was probably 20 or so years ago.
I guess it's going full circle.


----------



## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

dwp, Rogers Extreme Plus is $69.99 a month (with no discounts from bundling etc.) and gives you 125GB a month at 25Mbps. In reality, they've been upgrading their service substantially in some areas - I'm now seeing approximately 48Mbps regularly as are quite a few of their customers judging by posts on forums at DSLReports.com.

Compare that to Teksavvy, which tops out at 15Mbps. Their top two plans give 200GB ($42.95) and unlimited ($54.95). So, if you're more interested in sheer volume than download speed, it might be the one for you.

However, do keep in mind that if you've been with Rogers for a few years and have other services with them, you can wrangle some pretty hefty discounts out of them. I've got an overall 20% discount plus a bunch of freebies after a number of negotiations with their retention department. I don't think you'll get that with Teksavvy.

And for those of you who play WoW - please note that WoW is NOT a serious bandwidth hog. I was concerned - I have a couple of kids who were playing it regularly, so I looked into what it does use. 5-10MB per hour is all - so don't blame high usage on gaming (or not that game).  Our bandwidth issues turned out to be related to son #1's 3 and 4 hour daily Skype sessions with his girlfriend in the US. Skype - or the video version of it - is a real bandwidth burner and staying on so you can do your homework together etc. just wasn't on. I told them to switch to iChat - not as good quality, but waaaay less bandwidth. Problem solved. Video anything is generally going to be where you'll see the major chunks of bandwidth usage gobbled up.


----------



## pcronin (Feb 20, 2005)

Paddy said:


> And for those of you who play WoW - please note that WoW is NOT a serious bandwidth hog. I was concerned - I have a couple of kids who were playing it regularly, so I looked into what it does use. 5-10MB per hour is all - so don't blame high usage on gaming (or not that game).  Our bandwidth issues turned out to be related to son #1's 3 and 4 hour daily Skype sessions with his girlfriend in the US. Skype - or the video version of it - is a real bandwidth burner and staying on so you can do your homework together etc. just wasn't on. I told them to switch to iChat - not as good quality, but waaaay less bandwidth. Problem solved. Video anything is generally going to be where you'll see the major chunks of bandwidth usage gobbled up.


Normal playing with WoW doesn't use much, but they do have semi regular patches and updates ranging from a couple hundred megs up to a few GB. (Check your DL/BW logs for Nov, when they were rolling out Cataclysm expansion) This doesn't happen every month (thankfully) but every Tuesday is a cause to wonder if I'm going to be even able to log on when I get home from work. (Try downloading a GB or so when your *entire* stream tops out @ 150kb/s..) Get home at 6, have supper, try to log on for raid or other guild run by 8, and fail . 

I know it doesn't happen every game, every month, but look at Steam, Netflix, iTunes Music/App/Movie/TV stores, look at youtube for cryin out loud. The old out of touch guys in Ottawa are going to kill a lot of small/single innovators that are out there, because now they can't afford to put their art up, and their audience isn't going to be able to afford the bandwidth to download it.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Interesting. I just watched a Telus spokesman on the noon TV news today who was asked about limiting downloads for their broadband services. Telus advised they do not now, and do not have any plans to limit customers bandwidth no matter the speed of the package. This is consistent with my unlimited Telus Turbo 15 mbs service of which I average about 160 GB/month of late.


----------



## dwp (Aug 12, 2003)

What bothers me is the sudden change to my plan for which I'm on contract till Apr 15th, 2011.
I'll test this theory with the Primus reps tomorrow and see if they "honour" their contract till that time. 
I have no problem with pay per use in theory. It's nice to know about it before hand and important for companies to honour their so-called contracts with customers.

It's really a money grab in the end by Bell and an attempt to squeeze out their competition.

Years ago we all had Bell telephone service and paid a set rate a month and could talk with Aunt Martha until our ears bled. As long as it wasn't long-distance your monthly rate never changed regardless of how long you remained on the phone! Tell me how that is any different? I guess it has something to do with the fact that you could only speak to one person at a time...

Things are about to change big time, I suspect, and not in favour of the consumer. This whole thing about purchasing an iPhone and having to get a data plan concerns me as well. It's maybe time consumers reject the marketing lies and get tough with these companies by walking with our hard earned dollars.


----------



## DDKD726 (Feb 21, 2005)

Not sure if it's just a coincidence, but it was right around the time of this announcement that my speed seemed to be cut in half. I'm using Primus "High Speed" light and I was getting a horrid 100kbps max. Since the new year I only get 50kbps max.

I'm in Toronto, Riverdale area, not sure if that makes any difference.

Any suggestions?


----------



## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

DDKD726 said:


> Any suggestions?


Find a new ISP


----------



## DDKD726 (Feb 21, 2005)

John Clay said:


> Find a new ISP


Ya, I know... but It's hard to find anyone who can compete with home phone + internet for under $50 taxes in/month - which is what I pay with Primus.

I was wondering if it's something on my end or something on Primus end to do with the sudden slow down?


----------



## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

DDKD726 said:


> Ya, I know... but It's hard to find anyone who can compete with home phone + internet for under $50 taxes in/month - which is what I pay with Primus.
> 
> I was wondering if it's something on my end or something on Primus end to do with the sudden slow down?


If it's a VoIP home phone, then any of the independent ISPs can compete in that price range.


----------



## DDKD726 (Feb 21, 2005)

John Clay said:


> If it's a VoIP home phone, then any of the independent ISPs can compete in that price range.


No, it's an old fashioned land line


----------



## keebler27 (Jan 5, 2007)

jimbotelecom said:


> Teksavvy has a good rep. They do not offer service in Ottawa. I suspect that they too will be forced to deal with re-pricing their offerings due to the new rules. It's going to be interesting when LTE offerings are made available.


It might depend on where in Ottawa bc I can get it outside Kanata. 

And I'm callig tomorrow. Even if theyll have the cap after their appeal, at leading money won't be going to those bell morons who just screwed us all.


----------



## andreww (Nov 20, 2002)

Rogers and Bell are also in the TV business. I was no coincidence that Rogers rolled out their caps on the same day that Netflix was announced in Canada. Also, my plan was capped at 25gb//month, and in the year leading up to the cap I had averaged about 12GB per month usage. Since the cap was put in place I have exceeded it pretty much every month. I really don't trust Rogers to keep an accurate total.


----------



## Funkynassau (Apr 13, 2008)

My ISP is Wightman Telecom - Residential who is also my phone co. They are an independent company in mid west Ontario and they do have a large area they cover so maybe someone here is in that area that wants to switch. There is no limit on their internet usage and there's been no mention of one coming.


----------



## Garry (Jan 27, 2002)

dwp said:


> What bothers me is the sudden change to my plan for which I'm on contract till Apr 15th, 2011.
> I'll test this theory with the Primus reps tomorrow and see if they "honour" their contract till that time.
> .


I would be sure that in your contract there will be wording to the effect of..



> This Agreement may be changed and updated from time to time by <company name> and <company name> will post an updated version on its website available at <company website here> *and may additionally give* *You notice of any changes by mail or messaging on your monthly bill. *Please refer to the <company name> Web site for the latest Terms Of Use agreement. In the event of any such change, You will be responsible for paying all charges incurred for use of the Services, including charges resulting from the change or modification, and by Your continued subscription to the Services You will be deemed to have accepted the change. If You do not accept a change, unless You are in a fixed term agreement, You may terminate this Agreement upon at least 30 days advance written notice . You cannot change this Agreement.


So, they have the out.. your "contract" is subject to change.


----------



## keebler27 (Jan 5, 2007)

keebler27 said:


> It might depend on where in Ottawa bc I can get it outside Kanata.
> 
> And I'm callig tomorrow. Even if theyll have the cap after their appeal, at leading money won't be going to those bell morons who just screwed us all.


Hi Jimbo,

Just to confirm, I cancelled my bell internet and TV (just don't watch much anymore) and Teksavvy is porting my phone over. Don't go by their website, call them up to confirm whether or not you can have service and/or keep your number.

My Phone just went from $32.13 / month with Bell to $21.48 with Teksavvy for the SAME basic features (oh, sorry...Teksavvy doesn't have the $6.95 baloney 'network' charge) 

Internet just went from $50.90 to $36. all prices are before taxes.

The 2nd retention specialist they conveniently forwarded me to actually started arguing with a touch of anger. I was surprised. The best line is when he said, "You know when you go to a different ISP, there will be a cap on internet usage."

My reply, "Well yes, thanks to you guys! But I'd rather have my money go the little man instead."

The other retention specialist was very nice and polite. She made her case that they built the infrastructure and they lead the way in setting up services for people and it's good to have a company at the forefront. I said that was good in the beginning, but bending the CRTC over a table to set rules that only benefit you and crush your would be competition is in the same realm as what Microsoft did.

Of course, I may be wrong and maybe it's just my opinion, but I went on to explain how can any other company lead the way or at least provide a similar option. I told her that Canada is one of the only countries where internet and cell phone are ruled by basically 2 companies. Not really fair.

Maybe I was just getting ticked and perhaps I'm wrong with some of my information, but bottom line, if anything, I'm saving some household money.

Cheer,s
keebler


----------

