# How can i start to persue photography as a career?



## greamswann

O.K, so I'm only 15, but I like photography and would like to peruse it as a career someday. I have a decent digital camera, It's a 5mp camera with a 4x optical zoom and a pretty decent lens. It's just a point a shoot, but I didn't have $700 to spend on an slr. I've read a book that taught me about aperture and iso and stuff. Anyway, can photography be a potential career? What could I do, if it made decent money I would like shooting weddings and events and stuff (I like candid photography best) but am willing to explore other options. Know, since I'm only 15 I know I wont be making any money for awhile but what can I do now to prepare for later? I mean like practising my photography. Oh yeah, I am decent at editing my photos and have Paint Shop Pro. So, yeah, what can I do know and what should I do later?
You don't have to tell me that your not going to be able to do photography full time starting out, I know that photography would have to be a side job.


----------



## chrisburke

As a professional photographer... No one in their right mind us going to hire someone and pay them $1000+ to shoot a wedding with a point and shoot camera.. 

Get a part time job, save your money, and buy yourself a d300 or similar.. Then practice, practice, practice... Ppl also don't take you seriously if you just sit there and shoot in auto.. You have to know how to use the finer points of your camera

Oh and if you want to get some good practice, call up a wedding photog in your area, and see if you can assist them.. There won't be any money in it, but it's good experience.. Also, don't call them until you have a dslr.. Or they won't take you


----------



## SoyMac

greamswann, 
Welcome to ehMac!

Good for you for recognising your interest in photography and your desire to turn it in to a career.

chrisburke is right. You have a lot of learning to do, but don't let that stop you from chasing your dream.
The good thing about you being 15 years old, is that, being so young, you have a lot of time to study photography, and art in general, and become really good at it.

Can you take photography classes at your school?
Are photography classes available in your community (continuing education, colleges, etc.)?
Some stores that sell camera equipment give low cost, or even free classes. How about where you bought your camera?

An easy and fun way to learn, is to study other peoples' photos.
Look at the photography of famous photographers and compare it to your own.
What's the difference (if any  )?
How did the famous photographer do what they did?

Look at all the photographs you can (galleries, magazines, libraries, online, etc.), and try to determine why you think they're good photos or not-so-good photos.

Whatever comes of your interest in photography, you will have embarked on a lifetime journey of exploration and creativity.

When you take a photograph that you are proud of, please post it here in this forum.
We love looking at pictures!


----------



## crawford

Don't worry about having a camera that's "not good enough".

I would suggest searching out a local wedding photographer or studio photographer and asking whether they could use an intern. Most wedding photographers don't work solo, they have someone carrying and setting up their gear, wrangling people into place, etc. It likely won't be a paying gig, but you'll learn a ton (and get to use some pretty great equipment). That will give you a first hand flavour of what it's like to make a living as a pro.


----------



## Glipt

Take lots of pictures at weddings of friends and family. Make a photobook in iPhoto and give it as a gift. No need to spend $1000 of dollars yet. Enjoy the camera you have now and learn all of its manual functions. If you are good then you will get known and recommended. My first few weddings (video) I shot for free with a consumer camera and edited with iMovie and this let to many recommendations and work later on.


----------



## chrisburke

OP.. you have to spend money to make money.. Glipts advice is good if you don't want to be taken seriously.. Glipt.. I would never pay someone to video a wedding if they were using iMovie to edit..


----------



## Glipt

I was not payed for the first few weddings I did. They were favors for friends. When other people saw my work they asked me to shoot their weddings. Based on whet they say they wanted to hire me. That was with iMovie 3. While a professional might have cringed at my equipment and software back then, my clients were very happy. They did not know or care what I edited with. When I started to get offered more work, I then purchased FCP, Lightroom and eventually a Mac Pro which I have used ever since. Photography and video has always been a hobby for me, I have always had other regular work. I have never advertised or solicited work. People have asked me and if I have the time I have enjoyed working in this field. Over the years the work I have done has more or less financed this rather expensive hobby. The OP is 15. My point is that you don't have to spend $1000s to learn and even make a few $ with humble consumer gear.


----------



## eMacMan

Having run a photo lab for a number of years I will chip in with a couple of points about weddings. 

Weddings are the equivalent of walking a high wire with no safety net. Weddings are also the one area where otherwise competent amatuers are most likely to mess up. Once you are being paid to do weddings you have to get it right first time every time. I heard of one top notch photographer in Chicago who spent well over $10,000 (probably about $50,000 in todays currency) recreating a wedding, when two Hasselblads failed on the same day. Sounds extravagant but he considered his reputation to be far more important than the cash. Weddings while paying quite well are not for the faint of heart.

Most good wedding photographers have an assistant whose main job is to shoot back-up. As often as not they are using the simplest idiot proof camera possible. Even so good flash equipment can make all the difference between a good shot and crap. There is not a point and shoot on the market that has sufficient range for good group photos, not to mention red-eye from having the lens and flash sitting right next to each other. 

First learn exactly what you can and cannot do with your current equipment, then you will have a better idea of what to look for when you upgrade. If your interest is weddings be prepared to pay your dues and do not hesitate to work as an assistant. Wedding photography is relatively high stress and a lot of good photographers decide the pay is not worth the hassle, so working as an assistant could put you in a good position to take over a going concern. In the meantime you learn all about the pitfalls at someone else's expense.


----------



## chrisburke

Glipt.. I understand what you're saying.. But the truth is, even my Worst photos have been praised by clients.. Because they come in with the mind that "the professional will do better than my point and shoot".. So no matter what you give them, they will like.. Mostly because they know they can't do as good as you.. Hence your video doing well.. The ppl knew they couldn't do it, so they were impressed by what you did.

A small part of photog business is image.. That's why I stress good gear.. The reality is, ive taken some AMAZING photos with my iPhone 4.. But im not going to use it to shoot a client.. And it's 5mp.. Just like the OPs camera... People see quality gear, and it gives them a sense of security.. 

That being said, you can have the most expensive camera in the world, and still get ****ty results.. Because it's not the camera that makes a good photo.. It's the operator... 

OP.. yes, learn your camera.. Learn all the manual functions so you understand that its not about just pointing a camera and pressing a button.. But I'm telling you, if you want to be taken seriously, you need professional gear.. And a d40 or d3000 is not pro gear... And as has been said... Weddings are a place where you can't screw up.. There's no do overs.. And if someone pays you, and they get point and shoot quality, you can expect to see yourself on judge Judy.

Take it as you will, but I'm telling you this as a person who has been making good money in photography for the last 6 years... And shooting photos for the last 12 years.. Photography businesses dont start over night.. And they don't start 6 months after getting a camera and having friends say you do good.. It takes time, work and money


----------



## keebler27

hey, fantastic for you, at 15, to be thinking of a career! I envy you b/c I always wanted to do wildlife photography, then let it slip. Now, I find myself trying to take as much wildlife photos as I can! 

Screature had some great recommendations. If I were you, I'd get part time job and do 2 things: 

1. take some classes at either your school and/or stores such as henrys. buy some photography books. try to understand as much about photography as you can possibly learn, bookwise

2. then buy an SLR and use that book knowledge and apply it 'in the field'. Shoot lots, change settings and put the 2 together. You don't need a high end SLR either. Even the 'basic' models have plenty of features for you to sink your teeth into and not get lost.

Don't get hemmed in with just weddings. I know you just mentioned, but there are plenty of avenues - wildlife, pets, babies, family portraits etc.. and for the last 3, if you got an SLR, you could start doing some favour projects for family and friends to gain that experience and who knows, maybe grown enough knowledge and talent to start charging in a year or 2 (or longer or shorter... you never know).

Good luck and speaking from experience, if you love it, don't let it slide 
Keebler


----------



## DavidH

There is another way to enter the field with very little risk.
Once you start taking photos that you are pleased with (note I did not say perfect or great) start putting them up onto Stock Photo sites e.g.istockphoto.com.
Doing this is a long shot, but there is very little risk and you can get some exposure.

As they build their reputations, some photographers make a living at stock photography.
Wedding photography is very competitive and high pressure.

Just a thought.

DavidH


----------



## iamunique127

My suggestion is to get yourself an education. If you want to be a pro photographer you need to be competitive in the pro market. Photogaphy is so prevalent and accessible these days that there are more people wanting to be pros than ever before. There are also MANY schools putting out very well educated photographers.

I don't disagree with any of the above posters, all have valid points. Yes you can volunteer and get experience assisting a pro and learn on the job. That is a good starting point. But you have more chance of becoming a big time pro who stands out as one who is really good if you are well trained in the craft. 

Here is some basic info from School of Photographic Arts Ottawa:

"The 2-3 year, SPAO Portfolio Program, produces skill-sets that exceed industry standards and merge the fine arts with commercial applications, while allowing students the freedom to develop their portfolios"

"The core curriculum addresses: Photographic Theory, Photographic History and Achievement, Studio and Lighting Techniques, Printmaking Techniques, Digital Techniques, Portfolio, Magazine and Exhibition Design and Concepts, and Personal Aesthetics."

Bear in mind that is a photo school (which I chose from the first page of a Google search). Try checking out a University program.

Basically the pro photographer market is totally over saturated (no pun intended) so you need to make yourself special. If you want to be a local wedding photographer you may be able to learn that on the job. If you want to go much further you need to know a lot more than wedding photography (not that there is anything wrong with it).

I certainly don't mean to discourage you. On the contrary- follow your dream. You are lucky to know what you want at such a young age.

Check out Photo Tips- Photography Tips by BC Photo podcast on iTunes. There is a series there on Making Money With Your Camera that gives some good ideas on getting started.

Good luck.


----------



## FeXL

The best education you can take as a photographer?

A business course.

Serious.

You may be the best pitcher taker in the universe. However, if you have no clue about marketing, pricing, costs, etc., yer gonna starve.


----------



## CubaMark

I'm not a professional photographer  but I have friends and family who are / were. I would offer only two pieces of advice: get a fully-manual camera and REALLY learn how to shoot "old school". Once you have that under your head, adding on electronic features is gravy. 

Second: Find a niche and make it yours. 

One of the challenges of modern society for photographers is that everyone with a half-decent camera considers themselves a photographer. And fewer people are willing to pay for a professional to shoot things. Selling yourself in that environment is an even greater challenge.


----------



## hayesk

I have to agree with keebler - keebler has an excellent recommendation on what to start with - baby pictures and family portraits - the reason being, if you do a bad job at first, there's plenty of time for do-overs. I can also suggest if you have friends on local sports teams, offer to do some sports-themed portraits for them.

chrisburke, while you may have some good points about image, you seem to be portraying the notion that equipment is more important than talent and skill. Your advice seems more geared to someone who is ready to become professional today, not many years down the road. Give greamswann time to learn composition, universal photography terms like aperture, exposure, etc. before worrying about gear. Gear changes all the time - what's relevant today, will not be when greamswann is ready to try going pro.


----------



## chrisburke

I never once said he was going to a pro today..in fact my last post specifically says "it's not going to happen over night"... one of the first things I said was practice practice practice.. So im not sure why you think that i said its going to happen over night... 

OP said he's been reading the books. So that leaves me to assume he's already learned composition and manual functions.. Because surely someone who doesn't know those things wouldn't try to start a business.. 

I merely stated that to be taken seriously in the biz, he needs a good camera.. I talked a lot about the fact that even if OP had the best camera doesn't mean he'll be good.. Because he needs to learn how to use it... Read all my posts other than just one, and you will see that..


----------



## hayesk

Sorry, chrisburke, I just got that impression from all of your posts, not just one. My apologies if I misinterpreted them.


----------



## chrisburke

hayesk said:


> Sorry, chrisburke, I just got that impression from all of your posts, not just one. My apologies if I misinterpreted them.


Apology accepted!!


----------



## KC4

Hey Greamswann,

Sounds like you have a decent start. I expect you are still in school. Is the Yearbook club still looking for help? Look for these types of opportunities to take pictures and have them used or published in some fashion by others. How about a community newsletter? They are always looking for original images to use rather than some tired old stock image.

Start assembling a portfolio of your favorite shots. You may start to notice a trend in what types of images you like to capture. That's your style developing. Look in the library or online for other pro photographers that have a similar style and try to reproduce the types of shots you like. Continuously upgrade your portfolio by using your latest favorite shot as a replacement for your least favorite among them. 

Work that camera you already have to its maximum capability and keep pushing it and yourself to better your results. Meanwhile, start saving for a DSLR. A used one will be a lot cheaper and will be a good learning tool and probably still a decent backup camera when you eventually acquire a new DSLR. Every pro needs at least one back-up camera.

Good luck!


----------



## pcronin

KC4 said:


> Hey Greamswann,
> 
> Sounds like you have a decent start. I expect you are still in school. Is the Yearbook club still looking for help? Look for these types of opportunities to take pictures and have them used or published in some fashion by others. How about a community newsletter? They are always looking for original images to use rather than some tired old stock image.
> 
> Start assembling a portfolio of your favorite shots. You may start to notice a trend in what types of images you like to capture. That's your style developing. Look in the library or online for other pro photographers that have a similar style and try to reproduce the types of shots you like. Continuously upgrade your portfolio by using your latest favorite shot as a replacement for your least favorite among them.
> 
> Work that camera you already have to its maximum capability and keep pushing it and yourself to better your results. Meanwhile, start saving for a DSLR. A used one will be a lot cheaper and will be a good learning tool and probably still a decent backup camera when you eventually acquire a new DSLR. Every pro needs at least one back-up camera.
> 
> Good luck!


Definitely see if the yearbook or website club needs extra pics. 
I second the notion as well to get a 2nd hand DSLR. Could probably find a decent Digital Rebel XT or similar on Kijiji/ebay for a good price. 



CubaMark said:


> One of the challenges of modern society for photographers is that everyone with a half-decent camera considers themselves a photographer. And fewer people are willing to pay for a professional to shoot things. Selling yourself in that environment is an even greater challenge.


I see this all the time. I tell people I'm "a picture taker" and not a photographer. A friend's friend/sister/whatever said she was a photographer, took courses, blah blah, so at a gig I handed her my T1i to take some pics of the band. We got maybe 2 or 3 that were usable. I had the same camera at another band's gig and had almost 800 decent shots. (Not bragging, just stating fact  )



FeXL said:


> The best education you can take as a photographer?
> 
> A business course.
> 
> Serious.
> 
> You may be the best pitcher taker in the universe. However, if you have no clue about marketing, pricing, costs, etc., yer gonna starve.


This is true of *anyone* that is trying to take a hobby to a semi-pro or full pro level. I think this is why my various enterprises have waffled over the years. 

Unfortunatly, chrisburke is correct about perception. Showing up with a couple of PAS cams, even though they're set fully manual and you know them inside and out, would be looked at as an amateur move vs having at least 1 DSLR body and a couple of lenses. For the sole reason I happened to bring my tripod and T1i to my aunt's xmas dinner, I was volunteered to be the family photographer for my cousin's baptism. Doing family favours can be great practice, but because you're giving the "family discount" it may take the photoshoot as seriously as if you were an outsider they were paying.


----------



## chrisburke

I will also say, if you are wanting to get into weddings.. You're going to need AT LEAST 2 DSLRs.. I always take 3 to my weddings (2 on my shoulder and 1 in my bag just in case).. To many times something happens and you need a back up.. That and it's great to be able to have 2 different lens options without having to swap them out and miss a shot.. Your second camera doesn't have to be as powerful as your main camera, though it's not a bad idea.

And YES to second hand gear.. Even better if the owner knows how many shots it's taken.. (there is software to find out).. Don't buy those chinese packages from eBay though, they SUCK


----------



## kps

When I was fifteen, I perused the same dream, but that was 40 years ago. Photography was very different then and so was the industry.

The rest...well it depends on what you want out of it. Is your dream to be a "rock star" or a Main St. store front photographer, a news gathering photo journalist traveling the to the worlds hot spots or perhaps a commercial photographer doing editorial, product and fashion...or do you want to be the next Yervant or Jeff Ascough?

Regardless of what your dream is, get a solid education and walk away with a university degree. Be it photo arts, liberal arts or whatever. This alone will give you tons of options and open more doors than you may think. You can do photography on the side as you're working toward that degree and building that awesome portfolio.

I'll second FeXL's business courses and add communications and perhaps psychology on top of any photo courses.

Good luck, but remember, making a living at photography is not easy in a time where the camera does everything for you and everyone thinks they're better than Annie Leibovits because they got a Digital Rebel for Christmas. It'll be a tough go and achieving that "rock star" status very difficult.


----------



## chrisburke

kps said:


> When I was fifteen, I perused the same dream, but that was 40 years ago. Photography was very different then and so was the industry.
> 
> The rest...well it depends on what you want out of it. Is your dream to be a "rock star" or a Main St. store front photographer, a news gathering photo journalist traveling the to the worlds hot spots or perhaps a commercial photographer doing editorial, product and fashion...or do you want to be the next Yervant or Jeff Ascough?
> 
> Regardless of what your dream is, get a solid education and walk away with a university degree. Be it photo arts, liberal arts or whatever. This alone will give you tons of options and open more doors than you may think. You can do photography on the side as you're working toward that degree and building that awesome portfolio.
> 
> I'll second FeXL's business courses and add communications and perhaps psychology on top of any photo courses.
> 
> Good luck, but remember, making a living at photography is not easy in a time where the camera does everything for you and everyone thinks they're better than Annie Leibovits because they got a Digital Rebel for Christmas. It'll be a tough go and achieving that "rock star" status very difficult.


 solid advice!


----------



## pcronin

kps said:


> Good luck, but remember, making a living at photography is not easy in a time where the camera does everything for you and everyone thinks they're better than Annie Leibovits because they got a Digital Rebel for Christmas. It'll be a tough go and achieving that "rock star" status very difficult.


I already was a "rock star" (very localized mind you ) now I just want to take their pictures


----------



## chrisburke

If this were a dedicated photography forum.. The members would think OP is a troll.. Trying to get a rise out of the members by posting this question.. Reason being it's the "I have a p&s camera and am ready to think about business..".. I'm starting to wonder if it is... Because OP hasn't posted anything since the first post.. But I could be wrong... Just a hunch..


----------



## mrjimmy

kps said:


> When I was fifteen, I perused the same dream, but that was 40 years ago. Photography was very different then and so was the industry.
> 
> The rest...well it depends on what you want out of it. Is your dream to be a "rock star" or a Main St. store front photographer, a news gathering photo journalist traveling the to the worlds hot spots or perhaps a commercial photographer doing editorial, product and fashion...or do you want to be the next Yervant or Jeff Ascough?
> 
> Regardless of what your dream is, get a solid education and walk away with a university degree. Be it photo arts, liberal arts or whatever. This alone will give you tons of options and open more doors than you may think. You can do photography on the side as you're working toward that degree and building that awesome portfolio.
> 
> I'll second FeXL's business courses and add communications and perhaps psychology on top of any photo courses.
> 
> Good luck, but remember, making a living at photography is not easy in a time where the camera does everything for you and everyone thinks they're better than Annie Leibovits because they got a Digital Rebel for Christmas. It'll be a tough go and achieving that "rock star" status very difficult.


Excellent advise indeed.

The only thing I would add is to be careful when making your passion your living. 

I know plenty of wedding photographers who enjoy photography, but it's still just a job and in their downtime would prefer leaving the camera in the cupboard. I also know fine art photographers who kept passion and commerce separate. Their work is their own and is as fresh and vibrant as ever. They show periodically in galleries, make a bit of money here and there and their love is intact.

If you do it for the love and the $$$ follow, wonderful. But sometimes the anxiety of running a business can take the joy out of your passion.


----------



## screature

mrjimmy said:


> Excellent advise indeed.
> 
> The only thing I would add is to be careful when making your passion your living.
> 
> I know plenty of wedding photographers who enjoy photography, but it's still just a job and in their downtime would prefer leaving the camera in the cupboard. I also know fine art photographers who kept passion and commerce separate. Their work is their own and is as fresh and vibrant as ever. They show periodically in galleries, make a bit of money here and there and their love is intact.
> 
> If you do it for the love and the $$$ follow, wonderful. But sometimes the anxiety of running a business can take the joy out of your passion.


Very good advice mrjimmy having experienced the "phenomenon" myself. But regrettably I don't think you can find this out until you try and turn your passion into your living. Just hopefully you realize the incompatibility soon enough to retain the joy in your passion and find something else to do to earn your living.


----------



## Max

This conversation reminds me of strong parallels in the film industry, with very talented scenic painters (who routinely do faux finishes, intricate plastering trompe l'oeil and fine aging on all manner of surfaces) whose paid daytime work effectively kills their resolve to keep after their private creative work on nights and weekends. I only know of one guy who manages to do both, routinely exhibiting and selling his work - dude must have oil paint for blood. As for the rest, it's really one or the other. For many of us, getting paid to do stuff sometimes translates to yet another version of 'working for the man' and makes a more private kind of creativity feel sadly remote.

Sometimes too much of a good thing, paid or otherwise, can turn out to be a dealbreaker.

Your mileage may vary... so you really have to try it on for size and make your own discoveries.


----------



## screature

Max said:


> This conversation reminds me of strong parallels in the film industry, with very talented scenic painters (who routinely do faux finishes, intricate plastering trompe l'oeil and fine aging on all manner of surfaces) whose paid daytime work effectively kills their resolve to keep after their private creative work on nights and weekends. I only know of one guy who manages to do both, routinely exhibiting and selling his work - dude must have oil paint for blood. As for the rest, it's really one or the other. For many of us, getting paid to do stuff sometimes translates to yet another version of 'working for the man' and makes a more private kind of creativity feel sadly remote.
> 
> Sometimes too much of a good thing, paid or otherwise, can turn out to be a dealbreaker.
> 
> Your mileage may vary... so you really have to try it on for size and make your own discoveries.


:clap:  :-(... being "creative" can be bitter sweet.... 

Vocation (and by this I differ from the commonly accepted meaning of the word and by saying vocation, I mean what one is "meant"/borne to do vs. what one does to make a living [something done for monetary gain]... i.e., a "calling" as opposed to a "career") and profession/"career" sometimes don't mix.


----------



## kps

Hey, what's wrong with charging for your passion? 

Great chefs have passion for their food and I don't see them giving it away for free...and after you eat it and pay for it, it's flushed down the sewer the next morning.

A photograph captures a moment, a memory and can last forever, yet few want to pay for it.


----------



## Max

There's nothing wrong with charging for your passion. Problem is, the gig don't pay like it used to.

The onset of digital has made matters worse. Anyone can take a picture, download it into a computer (or jack it directly into a multifunction unit, for that matter) and print it up in a jiffy. The very ubiquity of cameras and phones has made the notion 'capturing the moment' so _de rigeur_ as to be almost blasé. The downward pressure for professional fees is real and sustained.

Not that I would have us go backward, mind you. I love digital for a variety of reasons. But.

It's the same with photo retouching and graphic design. 20-25 years ago if you were a whiz with Photoshop or Quark or Illustrator you'd be away to the races. Nowadays such skills are generally devalued. People seem to be confusing platforms and software with a refined visual sensibility (never mind years of actual experience!); they are not one and the same. However, few care to note the distinction; in the marketplace of ideas, it's become largely unimportant. And if an idea is unimportant, it's unrealistic to expect people will pay for it.

Hell, the notion of skill itself is very much a moving target; once-crucial skills can be largely replaced by clever software for the masses - redeye removal, warts and wrinkles auto-eliminated, tone routines that can maximize a given image's potential... fact is, most consumers are quite happy with those kinds of results; they don't know any better and ignorance is bliss.

In a similar vein, music is changing up. If a vocalist delivers a phrase that's flat or sharp, you simply auto-tune/pitch correct it so it's right on the money. This stuff is very, very easy to do. You can get cheap software to correct error-ridden time signatures courtesy an all too human performer - you can digitally force a drum track to slide all of its elements right into the pocket and keep it there. That's the power of digital. Digital doesn't care if the data is a tone or a pixel or a vector... its currency of trade is zeroes and ones. It all goes charging through the same pipelines, all flows into the same chipsets. It's just data... completely plastic, utterly mutable.

Perhaps we lose something in the process... at any rate, it's potentially a rich topic. But the fact remains: the technological genie can't be stuffed back into the bottle. And the old adage remains true - people want it fast, good _and_ cheap.


----------



## ScanMan

^ Well said.


----------



## Guest

Yep agreed, very well said Max.

Photography is now starting to become what "Desktop Publishing" did in the 90's, in that everyone _thinks_ they can do it because they have a software package and some clip art (or in this case a DSLR and some photo editing software).

Not to discourage the OP from pursuing this, but keep in mind that there's a ton of competition out there, especially for wedding photography. As another previous poster said learn all you can about the business end of things, as that will likely be the make or break stuff at the end of the day.

It's also worth mentioning that there are a lot of ways to get into photography that are NOT wedding photography, so that may be worth looking at as well. Find a niche and exploit it! That's the way business works these days!


----------



## JCCanuck

*Join a camera club.*

You can join a local camera club in your area. I did and the small lectures, competitions and outings were very enriching. At first I was uneasy with the "elders' but boy they were good, really good. Very helpful too esp. the competitons done within the club and even provincially. You might be lucky to have some pro members like I did.
I work at at pre-press company as a graphic artist and get to work with photographers. These guys are pros and really good. Sad thing is photographers main source of income is in the assembly line type photography like appliances, off figure clothes etc. Outside these guys do the nature, fashion, wedding stuff where the money is not coming in as readily if at all. Myself I do all my creative stuff (including photography) at home for charity since it's the dull retail stuff at work. Hope that helps.


----------



## SoyMac

Hmmm.
4 pages of responses full of generous advice and helpful guidance.
But I note that besides the original request for information, the OP has not been seen here again.

Just sayin'.


----------



## hayesk

That's ok - perhaps someone else will search for this question and find useful answers here.


----------

