# National Pest at it again - failure of multiculturalism



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> Britain has at last awoken to the dangers wrought by multiculturalism, a policy that only feeds intolerance and misunderstanding by separating people into ethnic and racial tribes, formalizing -- indeed celebrating -- divisions. Whether four decades of multi-culti indoctrination can be easily undone, and the cancer arrested, is another matter. It's a question Canadians must also face: With recent studies showing a growing pattern of ghettoization of racial and ethnic communities in Canada, and with our own homegrown terrorist plots, how long before this country is compelled to follow the British example and establish its own Commission on Integration?


how very Don Cherry
   

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/....html?id=d6808448-7d90-446f-9d44-696b54c89f13


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

SINC will be so happy....
The question maybe valid but this is the NationPost pushing an agenda....


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

ArtistSeries said:


> SINC will be so happy....
> The question maybe valid but this is the NationPost pushing an agenda....


The National Pest has an agenda?
You don't say...


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ArtistSeries said:


> SINC will be so happy....
> The question maybe valid but this is the NationPost pushing an agenda....


I am never happy to see problems develop like those in the UK, but I am happy that someone is finally recognizing that unfettered multiculturalism is divisive and over time it has shown the very predictable outcome without some type of forced integration. Sadly, the Canada of tomorrow may very well turn into a country with clashes among ethnic groups much like we see in other unsettled areas of the world.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

SINC said:


> ....Sadly, the Canada of tomorrow may very well turn into a country with clashes among ethnic groups much like we see in other unsettled areas of the world.


You mean like the East and West
The French and the English
The Cons and the Reds
The White man and the Indians
Montreal/Quebec


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> You mean like the East and West
> The French and the English
> The Cons and the Reds
> The White man and the Indians
> Montreal/Quebec


All those clashes are remarkably civilized compared to the clashes between, for example:
Israel and Hezzbulah
Hutus and Tutsis
Croats and Serbs
etc.

I can handle most of the clashes we have in Canada now, but the prospect of clashes similar to the ones above worries me a bit...


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

PenguinBoy said:


> All those clashes are remarkably civilized compared to the clashes between, for example:
> Israel and Hezzbulah
> Hutus and Tutsis
> Croats and Serbs
> ...


The clashes are the same but only the "moral" restrain differs....


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I don't think it's a crime to highlight an important issue. Multiculturalism has its pluses, but it isn't a magic wand.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> The clashes are the same but only the "moral" restrain differs....


Anyone who is planning to set up shop in Canada had better be prepared to adopt Canadian style "moral restrain" then...


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

PenguinBoy said:


> Anyone who is planning to set up shop in Canada had better be prepared to adopt Canadian style "moral restrain" then...


I hope so.


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## trump (Dec 7, 2004)

Multiculturalism isn't working. I'm a lot younger than all of you guys, I know what it's like to go to high school in a multicultural city. The social organisation is simple: whites hang with whites, blacks with blacks, east indians with east indians, asians with asians, "twinkies" with "twinkies", etc... The racial divide in our country is only growing, and in my opinion a strong boost of nationalism would be great


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

trump said:


> Multiculturalism isn't working. I'm a lot younger than all of you guys, I know what it's like to go to high school in a multicultural city. The social organization is simple: whites hang with whites, blacks with blacks, east indians with east indians, asians with asians, "twinkies" with "twinkies", etc... The racial divide in our country is only growing, and in my opinion a strong boost of nationalism would be great


Your example is a poor example of Multiculturalism not working. I would say, its actually a fine example of what Multiculturalism is in Canada. 

In Canada, it isn't expected that when you move here, you have to conform to some sort of "White norm." You don't have to melt into society, and discard your cultural identity. 

We don't have to pretend, that there aren't major differences between different cultures. In Canada, we can celebrate those differences. We can have different cultural areas in urban centers. Its ok, that people of different cultures hang out together at your school. 

Where you'll get problems with multiculturalism, is when you have racism. When one race or culture thinks they are superior or the other is inferior. 

Unfortunately, many times in Canada that is something that people coming to Canada face. Its a chicken and the egg thing. Some-people think they have some sort of ownership of Canadian society. 

Unless you're native Canadian, somewhere in your ancestry, your an immigrant to Canada.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

"Location: Toronto / Kingston"

You have *got* to be talking about Toronto.



trump said:


> Multiculturalism isn't working. I'm a lot younger than all of you guys,* I know what it's like to go to high school in a multicultural city.*


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## Voyager (Aug 7, 2005)

Don't disregard the message because you don't like the messenger. The fact that the U.K. is having this discussion is because they are beginning to realize that they might actually have a problem. 

Multiculturalism, in my opinion, is based on a give and take. Canada has created a society where people are given the option to continue their cultural and religious traditions instead of trying to create a society based on the idea of the melting pot. But, when people come to a Canada, they also have to accept that there are some limitations. Things like "honour killings" , forced marriages of underaged girls, and polygamy are not accepted in our society. Men and women have equal rights under the law. In other words there is a framework in which everyone needs to operate if Multiculturalism is to work. 

If, on the other hand you have one group or, elements of one, that believe they are somehow superiour to all others and can transplant their society into a new country and continue as if the only thing that has changed is the location, there may be a potential problem, as I believe the U.K. is beginning to realize, no matter how un PC that is. 

When you have "moderate" Muslim leaders turning up to a meeting with the foreign ministry to discuss a potential problem with homegrown terrorists within your community, who haul out a list of demands that include a parallel system of laws (Sharia law ) and public holidays to mark Muslim religious festivals( Muslims represent about 2.9 % of the total population in the U.K.), you may have a problem.

When you have religious leaders who incite members of their community to commit acts of violence under the guise of religious freedom, you may have a problem. ( And you could probably put any one of several religious and political groups here.)

When you allow web sites to exist that advocate violence and don't shut them down because you're worried about people's reactions, you may have a problem. 

When you have reports that some Imams have created their own militas in the U.K., you may have a problem.

When you have people who are born in the country but who consider their allegiance to their religion paramount to their allegiance to their country, you just might have the beginnings of a problem - especially when there are elements within that religion that openly incite violence against that country. 

You may not like the either the message or the messenger, but that does not mean there is no problem. The U.K may be the proverbial canary in the mine. 

Voyager


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ehMax said:


> Your example is a poor example of Multiculturalism not working. I would say, its actually a fine example of what Multiculturalism is in Canada.


With all due respect ehMax, did you even read his post?



trump said:


> Multiculturalism isn't working. I'm a lot younger than all of you guys, I know what it's like to go to high school in a multicultural city. The social organisation is simple: whites hang with whites, blacks with blacks, east indians with east indians, asians with asians, "twinkies" with "twinkies", etc... The racial divide in our country is only growing, and in my opinion a strong boost of nationalism would be great



If "whites hang with whites, blacks with blacks, east indians with east indians, asians with asians, "twinkies" with "twinkies", etc..." is your idea of multiculturalism in Canada, you need to shake your head, sir.

That kind of thing, ie: "whites hang with whites, blacks with blacks, east indians with east indians," is EXACTLY what is so very wrong with multiculturalism. There is nothing to "celebrate" in that kind of atmosphere. But there is much to fear by the division that type of behaviour breeds. Continuation of such policies and behaviours will bring this nation to its knees within the next 50 years as we may very well witness ethnic groups fighting each other in civil wars akin to the middle east.

And why? Because we are tolerant and allow other cultures to "walk all over former Canadian customs" developed over the first hundred years of this country's existence developed by the melding of immigrants to one culture that lasted until PET began the destruction of Canada.

It is an experiment doomed to failure and the current generation's children will pay the price. Sad, but I fear so very true.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

ehMax said:


> Unfortunately, many times in Canada that is something that people coming to Canada face. Its a chicken and the egg thing. Some-people think they have some sort of ownership of Canadian society.
> 
> Unless you're native Canadian, somewhere in your ancestry, your an immigrant to Canada.


I don't think that's completely the case. This country was founded by two cultures: English; and, French.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

quoteth by SINC;


> And why? Because we are tolerant and allow other cultures to "walk all over former Canadian customs" developed over the first hundred years of this country's existence developed by the melding of immigrants to one culture that lasted until PET began the destruction of Canada.


unless your "ancestors" were First Nations, you ain't go no "Canadian customs" and the First Nations could write the same

The Brits are still a caste society and are not known for their "tolerance"
Therein lies the real problem with their multi-cult

Their mentality tolerates ethnics as long as they clean houses, drive cabs, cut lawns, cook "ethnic" foods, but when they try to become part of mainstream power, "whites" only need apply and you'd better have papers to prove your great grand parents slept with somone in the house of Windsor

Canada is a multicultural tapestry - We're all (except First Nations) immigrants
Our differences make us strong.


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## Voyager (Aug 7, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> unless your "ancestors" were First Nations, you ain't go no "Canadian customs" and the First Nations could write the same
> 
> We're all (except First Nations) immigrants



No, technically, you're wrong. The First Nations ancestors crossed the Bering Strait via a land bridge from Asia many thousands of years ago. So, technically, they're immigrants also.


Voyager


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

from a recent op-ed piece
here's an example of SINC's "Canadian customs"


> Undeniably, our predecessors were admitted because Canada needed
> farmers. Promises of free land and freedom lured in some 171,000 before
> the First World War, helping secure the prairie West.
> 
> ...


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Voyager said:


> No, technically, you're wrong. The First Nations ancestors crossed the Bering Strait via a land bridge from Asia many thousands of years ago. So, technically, they're immigrants also.
> 
> 
> Voyager


You said it before I could, but you are of course, correct. There are nothing but immigrants in Canada. And of course the first 100 years did in fact establish certain customs that have been eroded by multiculturalism. Anyone who claims different is wearing blinders.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Voyager said:


> No, technically, you're wrong. The First Nations ancestors crossed the Bering Strait via a land bridge from Asia many thousands of years ago. So, technically, they're immigrants also.
> Voyager


"many thousands of years ago" makes on an immigrant

from our friends at dictionary.com



> im?mi?grant? [im-i-gruhnt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
> –noun
> 1.	a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence.
> 2.	an organism found in a new habitat.


just which "country" did First Nations migrate to?


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## Voyager (Aug 7, 2005)

SINC said:


> You said it before I could, but you are of course, correct. There are nothing but immigrants in Canada. And of course the first 100 years did in fact establish certain customs that have been eroded by multiculturalism. Anyone who claims different is wearing blinders.


Canada was founded on the principle of two founding cultures, English and French, hence the two Offical languages To ignore this fact is an attempt to rewrite history and make the original principles on which canada was founded irrelevant.

Voyager


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## Voyager (Aug 7, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> "many thousands of years ago" makes on an immigrant
> 
> from our friends at dictionary.com
> 
> ...


I believe #2 night fit. 
Also from our friends at http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=organism&x=0&y=0

I believe defnitions # 2 and #6 fit.

Voyager


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Voyager said:


> I believe #2 night fit.
> Also from our friends at http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=organism&x=0&y=0
> 
> I believe defnitions # 2 and #6 fit.
> ...


your link goes to the definition of 'organism'

you know you're really stretching the definition of immigrant by using #2

just admit you're mistaken and we'll be on our way...


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## Voyager (Aug 7, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> your link goes to the definition of 'organism'
> 
> you know you're really stretching the definition of immigrant by using #2
> 
> just admit you're mistaken and we'll be on our way...


Hey, I'm only quoting the dictionary. 

We could have a discussion re: who is an immigrant forever. There have been so many migrations and invasions over the centuries on most continents that who really was first becomes very entangled, even in north America. Not all First Nation were peace loving. 
The current situation is that, in Canada's case, a country was created using two founding cultures as its princiiple with all its cultural and tradional historic baggage and has been inn existence for 139 years and you can't just ignore that and make believe it has no weight.
Multiculturalism, as a concept is fairly new, and whether it is, ultimately, a success or failure will depend on how it evolves and what there is at the end.

Voyager


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

Voyager said:


> When you have "moderate" Muslim leaders turning up to a meeting with the foreign ministry to discuss a potential problem with homegrown terrorists within your community, who haul out a list of demands that include a parallel system of laws (Sharia law )...


When Muslim leaders call for Sharia law, they are going against two fundamental principles of Western democracy, namely "Rule of Law" and "Separation of Church and State". Hardly moderate in my opinion.


MACSPECTRUM said:


> The Brits are still a caste society and are not known for their "tolerance"
> Therein lies the real problem with their multi-cult
> 
> Their mentality tolerates ethnics as long as they clean houses, drive cabs, cut lawns, cook "ethnic" foods, but when they try to become part of mainstream power, "whites" only need apply and you'd better have papers to prove your great grand parents slept with somone in the house of Windsor


This sounds just a tad bit racist to me - if I didn't know better, I would think that you aren't accepting of other cultures!

Are you suggesting we should celebrate diversity, except for Britsh and / or white culture?


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## Voyager (Aug 7, 2005)

PenguinBoy said:


> When Muslim leaders call for Sharia law, they are going against two fundamental principles of Western democracy, namely "Rule of Law" and "Separation of Church and State". Hardly moderate in my opinion.


That's why I put it in quotes. I wonder sometimes if the only difference between "moderates" and the radical elements is not the end result but the method and timing it takes to get there. I once saw a definition of the difference between a "moderate" and a radical. They both see a world ruled by them, but the radical sees it happening in his lifetime. When I hear the things coming from "moderates", I sometimes think that the definition is closer to the truth than we realize.

Voyager


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

PenguinBoy said:


> This sounds just a tad bit racist to me - if I didn't know better, I would think that you aren't accepting of other cultures!
> 
> Are you suggesting we should celebrate diversity, except for Britsh and / or white culture?


the 'white' culture has been at the forefront for many years to the detriment of other cultures
just ask any First Nations about the genocide they have experienced


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

Voyager said:


> Hey, I'm only quoting the dictionary.
> 
> We could have a discussion re: who is an immigrant forever. There have been so many migrations and invasions over the centuries on most continents that who really was first becomes very entangled, even in north America. Not all First Nation were peace loving.
> The current situation is that, in Canada's case, a country was created using two founding cultures as its princiiple with all its cultural and tradional historic baggage and has been inn existence for 139 years and you can't just ignore that and make believe it has no weight.
> ...



:clap: :clap: :clap:


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> The Brits are still a caste society and are not known for their "tolerance"
> Therein lies the real problem with their multi-cult
> 
> Their mentality tolerates ethnics as long as they clean houses, drive cabs, cut lawns, cook "ethnic" foods, but when they try to become part of mainstream power, "whites" only need apply and you'd better have papers to prove your great grand parents slept with somone in the house of Windsor


Way to stereotype all Brits.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

PenguinBoy said:


> When Muslim leaders call for Sharia law, they are going against two fundamental principles of Western democracy, namely "Rule of Law" and "*Separation of Church and State*". Hardly moderate in my opinion.


Odd rules given the "One nation under God" pledge allegiance.
The swearing on the bible, Harpers "God Bless" and GW Bus references to God in almost every speech...


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

The argumnents about who was here first are irrelevant, unless you first agree to the principle that merely being somwhere first implies ownership. Do I own an island by first setting foor on it? Did some aboriginals own all of North America when they crossed the Aleutians? Maybe just the first guy? If one argues that these people own North America, then Americans surely own the moon. It certainly doesn't prove that currently dominant cultures have no rights to preserve that culture.

Saying "we're all immigrants," is an empty argument, as is that of the person who initially makes an argument about "immigrants" without defining exactly which group of people and what problem concerns them.


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## Voyager (Aug 7, 2005)

Macfury said:


> The argumnents about who was here first are irrelevant, unless you first agree to the principle that merely being somwhere first implies ownership. Do I own an island by first setting foor on it? Did some aboriginals own all of North America when they crossed the Aleutians? Maybe just the first guy? If one argues that these people own North America, then Americans surely own the moon. It certainly doesn't prove that currently dominant cultures have no rights to preserve that culture.
> 
> Saying "we're all immigrants," is an empty argument, as is that of the person who initially makes an argument about "immigrants" without defining exactly which group of people and what problem concerns them.


:clap: :clap: :clap: 

I wonder if this part of your quote *It certainly doesn't prove that currently dominant cultures have no rights to preserve that culture.* isn't at the heart of the argument. I think that some feel exactly that. The doninant culture has no rights to preserve that culture.

Voyager


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## bryanc (Jan 16, 2004)

ArtistSeries said:


> Odd rules given the "One nation under God" pledge allegiance.
> The swearing on the bible, Harpers "God Bless" and GW Bus references to God in almost every speech...


That quote in the US pledge of Allegiance, along with most of the rest of the Christian flavorings that have been bolted onto the civic processes in the US and Canada were added during the 1950's during an extremely counter-productive period in our shared cultural history. I'm very concerned that the xenophobia being cultivated by the Bush, Harper and Blair administrations is likely to explode into a similar spate of irrationalism, and erosion of the Church/State barriers our civilization has suffered to much to erect.

Cheers


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Voyager said:


> :clap: :clap: :clap:
> 
> I wonder if this part of your quote *It certainly doesn't prove that currently dominant cultures have no rights to preserve that culture.* isn't at the heart of the argument. I think that some feel exactly that. The doninant culture has no rights to preserve that culture.


I do believe that's at the heart of many of the arguments--an unspoken concept that groups on both sides don't wish to a) admit to, and b) confront.


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

Voyager said:


> I wonder if this part of your quote *It certainly doesn't prove that currently dominant cultures have no rights to preserve that culture.* isn't at the heart of the argument. I think that some feel exactly that. The doninant culture has no rights to preserve that culture.


But in a secular morden society who gets to define what that culture is? Careful what you wish for you may not like it.


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## trump (Dec 7, 2004)

ehMax said:


> Your example is a poor example of Multiculturalism not working. I would say, its actually a fine example of what Multiculturalism is in Canada.
> 
> In Canada, it isn't expected that when you move here, you have to conform to some sort of "White norm." You don't have to melt into society, and discard your cultural identity.


Are you joking? The fact that our (Toronto's) high schools are completely divisive isn't a bad thing? You have to think about why the blacks don't chill with whites and why "true" asians dislike "twinkies", the answer isn't a pretty one. Multiculturalism is a pure breeding ground for racism. By allowing everyone to keep the traditions from their home countries you're allowing the racial differences from native lands to be ingrained in Canadian society. The result is an entire generation of "Canadians" (if such nationailty even exists, given the said culture) that know only of the customs and traditions of a country on the other side of the planet. I'm scared to think of what the future holds for Canada, when my generation takes power. What is going to happen when the utter failures of multiculturalism finally make it to parliament and display themselves in the law of the land?


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Apparently, freedom is anathema to some.

Blaming racism on multiculturalism is like blaming sexism on suffrage.

You're sucking on the wrong end of the stick here.

Imagine how bad racism (if it's as bad as stated) would be with NO multiculturalism. Oh, wait. You really don't know.




trump said:


> Are you joking? The fact that our (Toronto's) high schools are completely divisive isn't a bad thing? You have to think about why the blacks don't chill with whites and why "true" asians dislike "twinkies", the answer isn't a pretty one. Multiculturalism is a pure breeding ground for racism. *By allowing everyone to keep the traditions from their home countries you're allowing the racial differences from native lands to be ingrained in Canadian society. *The result is an entire generation of "Canadians" (if such nationailty even exists, given the said culture) that know only of the customs and traditions of a country on the other side of the planet. I'm scared to think of what the future holds for Canada, when my generation takes power. What is going to happen when the utter failures of multiculturalism finally make it to parliament and display themselves in the law of the land?


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Trump - By your lights Quebecers should all speak English and lift their little pinkie when sipping Earl Grey ...that hardly is or was a recipe for harmony. See Ireland....the Troubles.

Minority protections are the key - not majority assimilation.
Tribes will always clash and it's not just cultural - it can be sports, politics, religions whatever.
A document like the Charter than allows multiple cultures and group identities of all sorts to prosper, be unique yet treats all as equal under the law creates the conditions that reduce the inevitable cultural tensions that will always arise.

With a variety of cultures that are not under the burden of suppression ( think France last year ) it's the communities themselves that are best able to deal with frictions that arise.
I love Carassauga as it provides supported multicultural events ..another reason Mayor Hazel rules and gets elected with 95% of the vote in a very multi ethnic community....and has done so for 30 years.

Celebrate the differences, keep the laws treating all fairly and have it seen to be so, encourage communities to be proud of both their heritage and their life in Canada.

I dare say their are cultures that have been in Canada for many many generations that have much pride in both.

••••

( However...twin salvoes  )


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

trump said:


> Are you joking? The fact that our (Toronto's) high schools are completely divisive isn't a bad thing? You have to think about why the blacks don't chill with whites and why "true" asians dislike "twinkies", the answer isn't a pretty one. Multiculturalism is a pure breeding ground for racism. By allowing everyone to keep the traditions from their home countries you're allowing the racial differences from native lands to be ingrained in Canadian society. The result is an entire generation of "Canadians" (if such nationailty even exists, given the said culture) that know only of the customs and traditions of a country on the other side of the planet. I'm scared to think of what the future holds for Canada, when my generation takes power. What is going to happen when the utter failures of multiculturalism finally make it to parliament and display themselves in the law of the land?


Well, I know why I wouldn't hang with you.


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## zoziw (Jul 7, 2006)

> When Muslim leaders call for Sharia law, they are going against two fundamental principles of Western democracy, namely "Rule of Law" and "Separation of Church and State". Hardly moderate in my opinion.


Constitution Act of 1867:



> EDUCATION
> 
> Legislation respecting Education 93. In and for each Province the Legislature may exclusively make Laws in relation to Education, subject and according to the following Provisions:
> (1) Nothing in any such Law shall prejudicially affect any Right or Privilege with respect to Denominational Schools which any Class of Persons have by Law in the Province at the Union:
> ...


Canada was established on the premise that there would be no state religion, specifically, the Anglicans wanted to be the state religion but groups like the mennonites complained that they were here to and didn't want one church favoured so the idea was dropped.

Separation of church and state is an american concept, not a Canadian one.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

SINC said:


> With all due respect ehMax, did you even read his post?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I get it SINC. Don't bother coming to your neck of the woods unless people are of the same colour, talk the same way, and do the same things you think a good a proper Canadian should do. 

Excuse me while I vomit. 

I live in an area of Canada with the one of the highest immigration levels outside of Toronto. I volunteer for an organization that works with immigrants. I know first hand the kind of ugly, bigoted racism they come up against in trying to get jobs, get lines of credit, apply for rent etc...

Beautiful people who come up against a-holes who start talking reeeaallly slooowly and in a child's voice, so that the poor immigrant can understand. Meanwhile, this immigrant has 10x the education, and general enthusiasm for life and appreciation for freedom than this a-hole will ever have. 

So you know what they do to cope? They hang out with people who speak a similar language. They hang out with friends with a similar cultures and traditions. They pool resources together and purchase plazas to open business to server their community and open cultural restaurants. Instead of hiring teenagers like McDonalds and Walmart, they hire friends and families who earn a living to support their families. They pay municipal, provincial and federal taxes like the rest of us. 

Kids hang out at schools with other kids of similar cultures. What is wrong with that. Why does that frighten you? Why does that give you "Much to fear?"

My parents are white europeans. They hung out, and still do hang out with many other dutch immigrants. They worship with other dutch immigrants. Dutch people set up many schools, churches, credit unions etc...

Mennonites hang out by themselves in isolation. Do you fear them? Or are they ok because they have the same skin colour as you? 

Your way of life, is not the way every Canadian has to live. You do not have to be white, european to be Canadian. You do not have to act, eat, speak, pray, etc... a certain way to be a Canadian. 

It's when you start thinking that people of different cultures have to all start acting the same, hanging out as one collective in the school cafateria, holding hands and singing that multiculuralism will fail. You have to realize that people are different, and *appreciate people's differences* and that people have different points of view on life. 

You'll have to excuse me for my tone this evening as after all, it is...er... Saturday night... its late, and er... it is Saturday night..  And I do like you SINC.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Interesting story today. 

Customer walks in, would like to purchase a Mac computer system. 

He would like to apply for an in-store credit card, as he is working on a job, and will get paid soon, but really needs the equipment now. 

Client is an immigrant to Canada, and can not speak English very good, and clearly hasn't quite gotten the hang of dress styles in Canada. 

I helped client, took my time, answered his questions. Took awhile, and there was some language barriers, but we actually had fun with it, and there were some laughs. 

Client gets approved for credit, and purchases a new Mac system. 

I ask him more about how is going, living in a new country. At this point, tears almost come to his eyes. He's thanks me over and over for taking the time to help him. He says, God bless you. And explains how he's been to several stores, and how some people did not want to help him. One big box store, (which shall remain nameless, but considers themselves one of the best buys in town) has employee tell him not to bother, as he probably won't get approved. 

I talk to the client some more, and ask him more about his job. He works for a computer firm, assembling computers. But he also does some voice-over work. 

I ask him a bit more, and he takes me to a website. And then shock... they guy is a celebrity on spanish television as an actor. He's moved to Canada to do spanish voice-over work for spanish versions of ads and other material. 

He can't believe the roadblocks he's running into at times. 

Gee...you wonder why he just might hang out with people of a similar culture who sometimes go through similar stories. 

You wonder who are the people in Canada who need to give their head a shake.  

Diversity is beautiful. Multi-cultures are beautiful. This *IS* Canada. If you don't like it, get the heck out and move to Texas or something. tptptptp 

24.5% of people living in my area are immigrants... we have the 4th largest immigrant population in Canada. 

Our city highschools are very multicultural, and yes, of course people of similar cultures hang out together. *duh*

In the gymnasium of one highschool, they have flags hanging of all the countries represented at that highschool. There must be over 50 flags hanging. It's wonderful.


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## Deep Blue (Sep 16, 2005)

*Rump Western Canadian Conservatism Sucks*



ehMax said:


> Interesting story today.
> 
> Customer walks in, would like to purchase a Mac computer system.
> 
> ...


Good Man, Eh Max. Eloquently stated and finely argued. 

I am a recent immigrant to this country too - my children hold three citizenships while I have two, Canadian being one of them. I have not experienced the kind of roadblocks that other newcomers have faced in this country because I am white and speak English. I have a broad cross section of friends from India, Nigeria, China, Australia, Britain, Germany, Denmark, in fact from everywhere...and the coloured ones, the ones who look different, always get a rough ride. 

I too have lived in non-english speaking countries and have burned with public embarrassment as fast talking, unhelpful sales staff or bureaucrats belittled me with impatience and disinterest. After experiences like that you can't help but seek out friends among your own cultural kind to restore one's personal esteem.

I echo the sentiments expressed wholeheartedly in your last two posts, EhMax. Good on you for taking the time with that Spanish chap. And Sinc, the LAST thing we need is "forced integration", as you put it. Let's instead spread a little more tolerance around.


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## Deep Blue (Sep 16, 2005)

trump said:


> You have to think about why the blacks don't chill with whites and why "true" asians dislike "twinkies", the answer isn't a pretty one. Multiculturalism is a pure breeding ground for racism. By allowing everyone to keep the traditions from their home countries you're allowing the racial differences from native lands to be ingrained in Canadian society. The result is an entire generation of "Canadians" (if such nationailty even exists, given the said culture) that know only of the customs and traditions of a country on the other side of the planet. I'm scared to think of what the future holds for Canada, when my generation takes power. What is going to happen when the utter failures of multiculturalism finally make it to parliament and display themselves in the law of the land?


tptptptp tptptptp tptptptp 

I'm sorry, but this so foolish it hardly bears commenting on. You obviously have never travelled abroad - no world view whatsoever. In fact, it sounds like you never left your very small home town. Blinkered, simplistic, narrow minded...such ignorance leaves me dumbstruck. I also don't know what a "twinkie" is. Is that like a "banana"?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

ehMax said:


> Beautiful people who come up against a-holes who start talking reeeaallly slooowly and in a child's voice, so that the poor immigrant can understand. Meanwhile, this immigrant has 10x the education, and general enthusiasm for life and appreciation for freedom than this a-hole will ever have.


This is sad reverse-sterotyping--the born-in-Canada a-hole vs. the "beautiful" immigrant. EhMax, while emotional, this is just anecdotal. Supposing I told you of a story about an immigrant who behaved like an a-hole to a straight white male who had more appreciation for life than the immigrant did? Would that tip the balance against what you're trying to say? 

And while you provided fine customer service to your Spanish-speaking client, I have received some shabby treatment at both big and small box Macintosh outlets--sometimes by people who are ethnically diverse. Do I go hang with people of a similar culture because I'm treated badly at the "Mac Store?"

And while you may think your style of diversity is beautiful it may not apper so to others. Don't get angry about it. Telling people to leave Canada if they don't like your vision of it is the type of response I would expect from the very intolerant. 

You live in an area with many immigrants? What does this have to do with anything else you said? 

Settle down and think before exploding with emotion.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

good for you ehmax
your views and your anecdotes are important and give me hope for Canada

multi-culturalism is part of what makes Canada such a great country

tolerance and understanding is the Canadian way, even though certain elements in this country would rather turn away from that philosophy, in the name of "cultural hegemony"

we were peace keepers, respected the world over as independent and honest brokers

now we are "peacemakers" using M-16s as our olive branches


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## trump (Dec 7, 2004)

I give up. Like not long ago, in a different thread, I had a long reply going. But you guys are to quick with the ad hominem, and that totally discourages me from clarifying my opinion which is not racist, like some claim. How in god's ****in name can an argument that says racism is bad be racist!?


edit: I've calmed down a bit, got over the racist comments about me. Now, ehMax, you are a master of logical fallacies. I honestly have to commend you on that...makes for a good debater. However, you seem to be the one who is putting words in my mouth, as well as SINC's. Did we ever say you had to be white to be Canadian? No. Hell, that would disqualify me as a Canadian now wouldn't it? 


What I was trying to say is that a divided multicultural society is NO better than a racist one. When groups of people refuse to hang out with each other in the halls of a high school based soley on the colour of the other person's skin, how is this good?


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

I don't think any government is capable of legislating culture or religion. You can't force assimilation, nor can you force 'multiculturalism'. Look at recent history, which is rife with examples of governments that have failed into trying to force cultural assimilation. Sadly, sectarian violence also exists in many 'multicultural' countries as well.

The melting pot approach of the US has failed. Many immigrants identify themselves as a hyphenated-American, much like immigrants here in Canada. 

I think Trump has correctly pointed out observations about racial divides that exist within our country. I'm not sure there is really anything government can do about it. I think tolerance and racial harmony stem from people and communities. 

EhMax, I don't understand why you are surprised at your own anecdote. It's obvious a lack of language skills will be detrimental for social interaction. This is just human nature. 

EhMax, I also come from a Dutch immigrant background. The attitude of the Dutch at that time (30's and 40's) was to learn English and Canadian culture right away. They understood that going to Canada meant accepting a change in culture. My family never spoke Dutch in public because they thought it was rude to other Canadians. Contrast this to the situation today. It's very different. But times have also changed and people and communication are more mobile. There is less incentive for immigrants to adopt a new culture because it is now very easy not to.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> The melting pot approach of the US has failed. Many immigrants identify themselves as a hyphenated-American, much like immigrants here in Canada.


it's not just immigrants that identify themselves as hyphenated and why do you seem to identify hyphenation as some sort of failing?


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> it's not just immigrants that identify themselves as hyphenated and why do you seem to identify hyphenation as some sort of failing?


My post didn't have a judgement on hyphenated-Americans or Canadians. Why did you assume it did?


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Vandave said:


> My post didn't have a judgement on hyphenated-Americans or Canadians. Why did you assume it did?


I did use the word "seem", but;



> The melting pot approach of the US has failed. Many immigrants identify themselves as a hyphenated-American, much like immigrants here in Canada.


you can "see" how it would "seem" that you are judging hyphenated Americans and/or Canadians


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

trump said:


> But you guys are to quick with the ad hominem, and that totally discourages me from clarifying my opinion which is not racist, like some claim.


Welcome to the ehmac experience. Dare to be different only if you're different like everyone else. 

I think your experience speaks to the term "plural mono-culture" that was identified in this thread's article:
http://www.ehmac.ca/showthread.php?t=43825


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

trump said:


> AMulticulturalism is a pure breeding ground for racism. By allowing everyone to keep the traditions from their home countries you're allowing the racial differences from native lands to be ingrained in Canadian society.?


I think I'll go to the Café ponder this over an expresso, if I feel peckish, I may order a bagel (with lox on the side of course)...


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

"Funny, you don't look peckish..."





ArtistSeries said:


> I think I'll go to the Café ponder this over an expresso, if I fell peckish, I may order a bagel (with lox on the side of course)...


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

trump said:


> What I was trying to say is that a divided multicultural society is NO better than a racist one. When groups of people refuse to hang out with each other in the halls of a high school based soley on the colour of the other person's skin, how is this good?


Thanks for clearing that up. High School is not exactly the real world but in some aspects (loosely) a microcosms of it. 
The time I felt the most isolated in my life was when I moved to a small town in Ontario. I though I had landed on another planet world. It was like white bread, missionary intercourse, religious bizzaro land.... Problem may not be multicuralism but conformity...


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

SINC said:


> And why? Because we are tolerant and allow other cultures to "walk all over former Canadian customs" developed over the first hundred years of this country's existence developed by the melding of immigrants to one culture that lasted until PET began the destruction of Canada.
> 
> It is an experiment doomed to failure and the current generation's children will pay the price. Sad, but I fear so very true.


I don't share your fears and think that we'll see a pretty remarkable country continue its normal and (hopefully) less interfered with development. Or maybe, because it will be so unlike where you grew up, your fears are well founded.  

I can't say that I have much evidence. I am merely going off of some gut feeling that there is an inherent value to the diversity (with some basic commanlities: liberalism; at least one of the official languages understood; rule of law). I could make up some grand arguments about how diversity prevents species from being wiped out but that's stretching it a bit much (except with regards to viruses  ). It's just something I feel. Yep, Beej has feelings.  

I think you're going to see this more and more. People my age and younger, from my experiences, feel almost zero nostalgia towards the past before the 1980s (oh that fabulous 80s hair!). I feel no great attachment to tradition and want the country to do what works best while maintaining that "best" is evaluated on some pretty basic measurements, almost none of which are related to what was done yesterday. I think tradition, outside of one's personal and family life, is ceremonial and otherwise only useful if we can't figure out a better way. Think Governor General. 

Why you took so much much flak for your opinion is unfortunate. Such treatment is also one of the reasons I haven't made huge efforts to use ehmac while my baby (iBook) is down.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Beej, good post.
SINC blames all on the Liberals again....


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

I feel your pain. We need Montréal, Toronto, Vancouver.

But multiculturalism does seem to creeping--or leaping--into small town Ontario.

trump's experience of high school may be narrow, or may be obtuse, and the identity fracturing may be accurate where he is, if not everywhere.



ArtistSeries said:


> Thanks for clearing that up. High School is not exactly the real world but in some aspects (loosely) a microcosms of it.
> The time I felt the most isolated in my life was when I moved to a small town in Ontario. I though I had landed on another planet world. It was like white bread, missionary intercourse, religious bizzaro land.... Problem may not be multicuralism but conformity...


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/....html?id=ea239a48-e21f-4356-ac37-4cb30d53cecb



> The Post once again raises the spectre of run-amok Muslims and terrorism as a convenient front for an attack on the policy of multiculturalism. Then it raises the bar with a reference to "the cancer of multiculturalism." I was not aware that a policy that seeks the inclusion and representation of non-English and non-French ethnic groups in the workings of Canadian society-at-large was such a massive threat to our body politic. Perhaps we should return to the good old days when immigrants and their progeny knew their place.


author is a friend of mine


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## gastonbuffet (Sep 23, 2004)

"she is dead to us"



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vQvKpj5ThQ


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

gastonbuffet said:


> "she is dead to us"
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vQvKpj5ThQ


So Um... does anyone know if Sinc actually watched this?



SINC said:


> And why? Because we are tolerant and allow other cultures to "walk all over former Canadian customs" developed over the first hundred years of this country's existence developed by the melding of immigrants to one culture that lasted until PET began the destruction of Canada.


I think he should become a member.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

da_jonesy said:


> So Um... does anyone know if Sinc actually watched this?


Nope, he never watches anything with Rick Mercer. Despise the little twerp and even more, ever since he started with those global warming TV spots.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

But SINC, it's a documentary about most Albertans...


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ArtistSeries said:


> But SINC, it's a documentary about most Albertans...


That type of ignorant generalization is typical of too many Easterners.


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

SINC said:


> Nope, he never watches anything with Rick Mercer. Despise the little twerp and even more, ever since he started with those global warming TV spots.


It may be a cliche, but "You can lead a horse to water..."


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

Beej said:


> I think you're going to see this more and more. People my age and younger, from my experiences, feel almost zero nostalgia towards the past before the 1980s (oh that fabulous 80s hair!). I feel no great attachment to tradition and want the country to do what works best while maintaining that "best" is evaluated on some pretty basic measurements, almost none of which are related to what was done yesterday. I think tradition, outside of one's personal and family life, is ceremonial and otherwise only useful if we can't figure out a better way. Think Governor General.


Ayup. You should be around when I make that argument in Church circles  Tradition is interesting, but in no way sacred. When there is no reason to discard it, fine. But all is open to question, and, indeed, needs to be questioned. Aggressively.

But you forgot about the importance of the power ballad! 



trump said:


> What I was trying to say is that a divided multicultural society is NO better than a racist one.


Wrong. The only long term solution to problems of racism is encounters with the other. This is why racism and homophobia (related mental deficiencies) are still so prevalent in rural places. A divided multi-cultural society may not be good, but it is better than one where there are no encounters with the other.



trump said:


> When groups of people refuse to hang out with each other in the halls of a high school based soley on the colour of the other person's skin, how is this good?


It's not good, but it's better than one where people never even see those who are "different". Gradually, little by little, those divisions break down.


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## bryanc (Jan 16, 2004)

RevMatt said:


> It's not good, but it's better than one where people never even see those who are "different". Gradually, little by little, those divisions break down.


You're right, but this is true if and only if there isn't too much competition. Under conditions of high competitive stress, our racist instincts are strongly favoured by kin-selection.

However, under conditions of plenty, xenophobia is disadvantageous, because genetic mixing produces hybrid vigour.

This sort of behaviour is reasonably well-understood by population ecologists, and the human manifestation follows the same rules.

cheers


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

bryanc said:


> hybrid vigour


I've got hybrid vigour. I can't wait to try that line out at the bar.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

All of this mult-culturalism is headed for a greyish uni-culturalism that I find unappealing. No vigorous whirl of many cultures, just someone wearing a sombrero, sipping tea and eating with chopsticks.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Macfury said:


> All of this mult-culturalism is headed for a greyish uni-culturalism that I find unappealing. No vigorous whirl of many cultures, just someone wearing a sombrero, sipping tea and eating with chopsticks.



yeah, just better times were had when immigrants knew their place
cut the lawns, dance your cute ethnic dances and wash the cars

and above all else ALWAYS speak English

you might as well start wearing 1950s car seat covers like your idol; Herr Cherry


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## 20DDan (May 2, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> yeah, just better times were had when immigrants knew their place
> cut the lawns, dance your cute ethnic dances and wash the cars
> 
> and above all else ALWAYS speak English
> ...


Excuse me? Cut the lawns? Im not one's servant! Im proud to be an immigrant... My dad came here broke many years ago and has a very successful business... something I've seen very few "born here" canadians do... dont get me wrong... I have nothing against Canadians... I am Canadian/Romanian I just dont get your blind naiveness. I speak better english then most people I know btw!... k Ima go pretend I never saw this...


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

7gabriel5elpher said:


> Excuse me? Cut the lawns? Im not one's servant! Im proud to be an immigrant... My dad came here broke many years ago and has a very successful business... something I've seen very few "born here" canadians do... dont get me wrong... I have nothing against Canadians... I am Canadian/Romanian I just dont get your blind naiveness. I speak better english then most people I know btw!... k Ima go pretend I never saw this...


perhaps you should brush up on "sarcasm"


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## 20DDan (May 2, 2005)

lol my bad... gotcha... kk I guess that one went right over my head! lmao oh my...


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> yeah, just better times were had when immigrants knew their place
> cut the lawns, dance your cute ethnic dances and wash the cars
> 
> and above all else ALWAYS speak English
> ...


How is this fountain of venomous hatred either a) helpful or b) related to his comment?

I find MF to be often enfuriating, sniping, and frequently nasty and smallminded, but sometimes he says things that are particularly thoughtful. I choose to take the below comment at face value - namely, the beginning of a dicussion about the commercialization and homogenization of culture. He's quite correct. Multiculturalism is not simply the availability of more products.

Now, if he wants to use that initial premise to argue that we need to return to the mono-culture of the past, then you can haul out your above comment, and I can dust off my prejudices about him, too. beejacon 



> All of this mult-culturalism is headed for a greyish uni-culturalism that I find unappealing. No vigorous whirl of many cultures, just someone wearing a sombrero, sipping tea and eating with chopsticks.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

RevMatt said:


> He's quite correct. Multiculturalism is not simply the availability of more products.


I didn't think about it that way, but see your point. Genetically, although centuries off, I think the visual diversity will reduce and with it the cultural. We will still be a very diverse species but us vigorous hybrids will become the norm'.  There will still be different practices but when you can find more common friendship with someone on the otherside of the world (with better-than Star Wars holograms  ) it limits the durability of accents and products. So it won't be that we lose the visual diversity of architectural styles, clothing etc. It will be that they would only remain geographic-specific by necessity, not by history. Still, that extreme is a long way off. For now we've got Annanova. :heybaby:

I can see how someone would think that unappealing. To me, and some of the really left-of-left-of-left social values I have (regarding public policy as opposed to personal preference), it is coming. All praise the unknown.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

In a Larry Niven book--The Mote in God's Eye--future citizens largely choose which culture they wish to represent. On a planet called New Scotland, people choose to speak with Scottish accents and practice Scottish culture because that's what they prefer.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Macfury said:


> In a Larry Niven book--The Mote in God's Eye--future citizens largely choose which culture they wish to represent. On a planet called New Scotland, people choose to speak with Scottish accents and practice Scottish culture because that's what they prefer.


That was a very entertaining book, although I don't recall that part. I remember more about the moties. I found the sequel (was there just one?) entertaining but not as good. One of the reasons I like 'good' sci-fi is in how it abstracts from the daily grind to really get at the human condition. Take away scarcity, then what? Take away some other restriction that is embedded in our lives, then what? Great stuff. And, holistically, this connects with another post of mine in the bug thread. Coincidence, conspiracy, design or a melange? beejacon


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

RevMatt said:


> This is why racism and homophobia (related mental deficiencies) are still so prevalent in rural places.


Is that really true? Is there any information to support it, or are you just stating your gut feeling?


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Sure......just look at the voting patterns  ...self evident.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Vandave said:


> Is that really true? Is there any information to support it, or are you just stating your gut feeling?


having moved from urban to rural Ontario I have noticed far less tolerance of other ethnic/racial groups in rural Ontarians

racial/ethnic slurs are far too common place and it is disturbing


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

MacDoc said:


> Sure......just look at the voting patterns  ...self evident.


Doc--I think you're not going to enjoy living in Canada over the next 20 years or so.


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

Vandave said:


> Is that really true? Is there any information to support it, or are you just stating your gut feeling?


Can I quote you a stats can link? No. But I've lived a lot in rural areas here in Ontario, and I can assure you it is true here.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

VanDave: Were you asking if rural communities are more racist/homophobic or whether it's true that homophobia is a "mental deficiency."


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## Fink-Nottle (Feb 25, 2001)

Opposition to the policy of multiculturalism does not equal intolerance or anti-immigration or racism. I think most people would agree that our diversity makes us a great country, but at the same time it only works if there is a bedrock of shared Canadian beliefs. Immigrants to Canada have brought and continue to bring more than food, clothes and festivals; they also bring beliefs and attitudes which may clash with those of other immigrants and with those already here. In some parts of the world it is acceptable to beat women and children, attack homosexuals, and fight for theocratic rather than democratic rule by any means necessary. Should such views be respected or even tolerated?

Some of the harshest critics of multiculturalism are immigrants who have come to Canada and found something better than what they left behind... and fear losing it. Here's an article by Montreal author Neil Bissoondath who wrote *Selling Illusions: The cult of Multiculturalism in Canada*. He feels that multiculturalism is by its nature divisive.
*
No Place Like Home

*Dr Suwanda Sugunasiri of York University is even more forceful and wrote a book called "How to Kick Multiculturalism in the Teeth: Towards a Better Tomorrow with Critical Compassion". (seems to be out of print so no link.) He argues that ethnic communities hang onto the past wholesale and are self obsessed with their own prestige.

*Recent Article Here

*Richard Gwynne wrote of "*the unbearable lightness of being Canadian*" and how we are defining a post modern state. The danger of multiculturalism is that it abbrogates this responsibility and leaves us in a relativist morass. If we want to be more than the sum of our parts, indeed if we want 'Canadian' to mean anything, we have to be more cohesive, more discerning and more judgemental. Not all cultures, practices or beliefs are equal... as Canadians, we have to choose the ones we want to define our country.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

Macfury said:


> VanDave: Were you asking if rural communities are more racist/homophobic or whether it's true that homophobia is a "mental deficiency."


Questioning whether rural communities are more racist / homophobic.

It seems all to acceptable for urban people to bash rural people.


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

Vandave said:


> Questioning whether rural communities are more racist / homophobic.
> 
> It seems all to acceptable for urban people to bash rural people.


There is a pretty clear correlation between lack of exposure to the other and prejudice, and there just aren't that many "other" of any variety in smaller places.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Fink-Nottle said:


> In some parts of the world it is acceptable to beat women and children, attack homosexuals, and fight for theocratic rather than democratic rule by any means necessary. Should such views be respected or even tolerated?


Indeed...

Thanks for the links, Fink-Nottle.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

RevMatt said:


> There is a pretty clear correlation between lack of exposure to the other and prejudice, and there just aren't that many "other" of any variety in smaller places.


Not all smaller places. Here in BC, a lot of small communities have large Native populations. There are also lots of communities with a large portion of Indo-Canadians. For example, a community I am very familiar with, Houston, has the highest percentage of Indo-Canadians in BC per capita. 

A lot of other small communities have a very educated population (presumably less prejudice as well). For example Smithers, Nelson and the gulf islands are full of academic types.


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

Vandave said:


> Not all smaller places. Here in BC, a lot of small communities have large Native populations. There are also lots of communities with a large portion of Indo-Canadians. For example, a community I am very familiar with, Houston, has the highest percentage of Indo-Canadians in BC per capita.
> 
> A lot of other small communities have a very educated population (presumably less prejudice as well). For example Smithers, Nelson and the gulf islands are full of academic types.


Fair enough, I should have said "most smaller places". But BC is the exception to most rules


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