# Going nuts with pencils...



## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

Hey, I thought this was going to be easy... 

I bought my first wacom tablet and expected to be able to sketch using near realistic pencils.

So I bought Artrage and was surprised to find out how poor the pencil presets were. I then imported brushes from Sketchbook Pro (adapted to Artrage) and was equally disappointed.

I then remembered that my CS5 could be a good platform for sketching before exporting to Artrage for various types of painting. Googling the lot I found dozens of offers for 'realistic' pencil sets on sites such as 22Pixels - overwhelm!

All I'm after is a realistic set of brushes that emulate from 4H to 6B (give or take) in the brush size equivalent of a 0.5 or 0.7mm lead tip. I can apply my own drawing skills to increase pressure and angle as needed. You would have thought this would be a requirement of any decent drawing programme; well apparently not!

Ideas & suggestions? - Thanks


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

I know you said you tried importing brushes from Sketchbook Pro but have you just tried using Sketchbook Pro? I found that program to be the best for line work.


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

i-rui said:


> I know you said you tried importing brushes from Sketchbook Pro but have you just tried using Sketchbook Pro? I found that program to be the best for line work.


Thanks. What makes it best in your opinion? My aim is to transfer as transparently as possible from paper to screen in terms of hand feel. The electronic stylus is a bit more wobbly than the real pencil, so a small degree of smoothing is probably called for, but I found the pencils in Sketchbook less natural in handling. Perhaps just a question of habit.


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

I find sketchbook Pro to be the best because it's has the smoothest and most accurate line work. There is also program called Manga studio which has a tool that will smooth the lines as you draw them. So you might want to look into that program and try a demo version.

What size is your tablet? Smaller tablets tend to have more jitter. Try zooming in so that your tablet doesn't have to represent the entire screen at full resolution and see if you find the line work to be less jittery.


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

Thanks, yes I have a smaller tablet (bamboo). It looks like every program has +/- I regret purchasing Artrage so quickly- should have spent more time with the demos. Will keep exploring...


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## Kami (Jul 29, 2002)

Which Bamboo tablet did you get? Some models are better than others. And if you move into the Intuous line you get more levels of pressure sensitivity. There are more tips and pens in the Intuous line as well


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

Kami said:


> Which Bamboo tablet did you get? Some models are better than others. And if you move into the Intuous line you get more levels of pressure sensitivity. There are more tips and pens in the Intuous line as well


I wasn't sure the tablet setup would work for me, so I bought a cheap bamboo - it is the current pen + touch model. I uess that an Intuos medium with angle sensitivity would work better but it's a lot more expensive. Maybe next year...


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## winwintoo (Nov 9, 2004)

Or you could use your finger and the $5 Procreate app on your iPad 

I'm no artist, but I draw very intricate doodles in Procreate using a homemade stylus and the feel is better than using a pencil.

I know, you have a computer, yadayada, but before you drop anymore money, and if you are serious about replacing paper, check out Procreate forums - Index where you'll find some amazing artwork from some very talented artists (and some very happy hobbyists like me too)

Instagram #procreateapp to see more.

Procreate has an amazing brush engine. Making your own brushes is dead simple and the forum above has a section for sharing brushes.

We're eagerly awaiting a new release of this already awesome app.

No, I'm not associated with this 4 person development team, but I can't say enough good things about them. Several artists that frequent the forums are ditching their desktops in favor of Procreate on their iPads.


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

Looks very cool. Ahem I don't have an iPad, mainly because I think the writing apps make everyone look like retards. Have you used this Pogo Connect stylus?


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## winwintoo (Nov 9, 2004)

Moscool said:


> Looks very cool. Ahem I don't have an iPad, mainly because I think the writing apps make everyone look like retards. Have you used this Pogo Connect stylus?


A smart stylus in my hands would be a waste of good money  I lack the skill to properly use it. I did purchase a few mid-price stylii, but none improved my drawing ability enough to justify the expense, so I returned them. Now I use a DIY stylus that consists of conductive foam stuffed in an old Bic pen barrel. It is all I need.

My "art" is Zentangle doodles, but I'm always blown away by the art those other guys create. And I'm blown away by the Procreate development team. They are always there to answer questions, they listen to suggestions, they treat ALL their customers the same. They honor me and my pathetic art the same as their high-end users.

I think they have a really good product so I gives them props whenever I can. 

I agree about th iPad writing apps in general. I tried a Zagg keyboard. The keyboard was perfect for my hands, but since there isn't a decent writing app, not much I could do with it. I did find a new writing app that pairs an iPhone with the iPad and you can use the iPhone as a keyboard. It looks interesting.

You will get an iPad sometime, keep Procreate in mind. You can make a real business case for an iPad with procreate. You could be drawing while on the subway or waiting at the dentist........


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

winwintoo said:


> You will get an iPad sometime, keep Procreate in mind. You can make a real business case for an iPad with procreate. You could be drawing while on the subway or waiting at the dentist........


Yes, a Wacom Cintiq for the poor, or those who can't lug it around!


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

I've been using Wacom products ever since college. The intuos line is definitely better, but if the issue you find is jittery lines I'd suggest a larger tablet would be more important than a small intuos. IMO 6X8" is the minimum size to draw with. Also nothing wrong with earlier versions of the intuos line. The newer versions are nice, but in terms of base functionality the differences are minimal.

I would say you'll never replicate the true feeling of drawing on paper using a Wacom tablet (other then the Cintiq line). It's just such a different experience, and there is a disconnect between drawing on the tablet while looking on the screen that can be mitigated, but never totally overcome. Even though I use to use an intuos tablet exclusively for my digital illustrations, i would still do the initial drawing on paper and then scan it in. Once I got a Cintiq tablet that somewhat changed in that now I often work directly on the screen entirely and skip the initial drawing altogether. But there are times with really intricate stuff where I still revert to drawing it out on paper first.

I have an ipad and agree that the Procreate app is the best of the bunch (followed closely by sketchbook pro). However i do still think the ipad and the apps created for it are inferior to a fully decked out computer running a powerful app. Drawing on screen is a nice bonus over the bamboo/intuos tablets, but i still have issues with palm input messing things up. I also bought the pogo connect and while it's better than a regular stylus, it can't compare to a proper tablet in terms of pressure sensitivity. 

I have heard good things about the samsung note 10 as it supposedly has wacom tech and supports pressure sensitivity with it's stylus. Can't comment directly as I've never used it. I do have an older pen tablet which works reasonably well, with the exception that the screen quality colour accuracy is somewhat poor and it runs windows (which drives me crazy).

I've had both the Cintiq 21ux, and now have the 24hd. These are the best solutions out there IMO, but the price is high. Even still, they are not perfect and still don't replicate a natural feel 100% because of the parallax issue. Still, the positives generally outweigh the negatives.

This site has some interesting reviews on potential less expensive cintiq alternatives. some of the stuff looks interesting, however i can't vouch for any of it.

FRENDEN • Posts Tagged ‘review’


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

Thanks for this comprehensive view...

While I'm chewing this all over, I'm actually practising more sketching on paper: what's the point of technology if you can't draw a line in the first place?

My thinking so far:

- Artrage has better overall oil paint/water colour performance and pencil more realistic, although basic in its settings
- Sketchbook pro has faster line art (e.g. ability to force straight lines and diagonals) and an easier interface. Their pencil settings are better but don't look much like pencil

Both handle layers well

Now here's another question: hatching/cross-hatching on a tablet is much harder work than on paper. There are cross-hatch brushes but they don't look natural at all. What do you do?


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## jeepguy (Apr 4, 2008)

I agree with everything* i-rui* said, the *cintiq *is the way to go. As far as the Samsung note 10.1 goes, it's not bad and sketchbook pro is available for it, but I found the build quality to be sub par. With the release of the new *Cintiq 13HD*, I'm sure there will be great deals to be had on the older *12WX* with people upgrading to the newer one. For pure drawing I would take the a Samsung note 10.1 with pressure sensitivity over an iPad any day.



Moscool said:


> Now here's another question: hatching/cross-hatching on a tablet is much harder work than on paper. There are cross-hatch brushes but they don't look natural at all. What do you do?


it's much more natural on a Cintiq, or Samsung Note.


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

i-rui said:


> Even though I use to use an intuos tablet exclusively for my digital illustrations, i would still do the initial drawing on paper and then scan it in. (...) I've had both the Cintiq 21ux, and now have the 24hd.


At 29kg you'd be a strong person to walk around sketching with this! 

Thanks for the tips. I'm pursuing the dual track of learning how to draw on paper and getting comfortable with the Bamboo. How much of a difference does pen tilt make? For example can you get a broader shading surface using the pencil?

François


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

IMO the tool used in the program will have more of an impact then the actual tilt of the stylus. But the Pen tilt can still help. Have a look at this video (although this is with an art pen which also reads rotation):





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

Yes, you're right, the art brush is a different animal. I found a new[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaEMM5uRuCE"] training video[/ame] from Wacom that may get me an answer but, at 90 minutes, I haven't yet found the time to investigate...


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