# about ipod competitors? help me please



## marmin (Jan 25, 2008)

can you help me to answer these question?

how the iPod's competitors are doing now, including new entrants like Amazon, and what strategies they are employing to gain market share.


thank you very much


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## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

marmin said:


> can you help me to answer these question?
> 
> how the iPod's competitors are doing now, including new entrants like Amazon, and what strategies they are employing to gain market share.
> 
> thank you very much


We saw your other thread trying to get other people to do your homework for you too.


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## marmin (Jan 25, 2008)

*don't say that*

As i told you

I solved some questions and some I don't know how to solve it 

just help please



thanks


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

So let me get this straight:

You come on here with no history and ask two provocative questions about Apple's (highly successful) business model and you act surprised when, after contributing NOTHING to the community, your requests to have others do your homework for you are largely ignored?

Is that right?

I would have answered your question anyway, but your consistently poor use of grammar and apparent inability to understand the concepts of "punctuation" and "capitalisation" leave me disinclined. I hope you're not a business or communications major, because your skills in that area ... um, need work.


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

Your syntax is so messed up. Dude do your research. How are you going to cite any information you get here. ahaha


chas_m (2008) _title of the thread_ www.ehmac.ca\

ahhaha!!! Like to see the profs face on that one.


Do your work properly.


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

Here's a hint, you can argue anything, as long as you back it up. These are called references. Your teacher doesn't care if it's right or wrong, as long as you back up your claim. 
There's a building that's usually occupied by old people during the day, but they have this weird concept of letting you borrow any book there for free, you can even read the paper without buying anything, and for some strange reason they have a thing called “archive” in which they keep old newspapers. It's called a “library”.
Seriously kid, do you're own research, your teachers are looking for you doing your own homework, and asking strangers online is not the answer they're looking for. People on forums just give opinions and theories, not facts. On the rare occasion when there is a fact present, it's always backed up with a reference.


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

marmin said:


> how the iPod's competitors are doing now, including new entrants like Amazon, and what strategies they are employing to gain market share.


Competition from competitors like Microsoft and SanDisk have been eroding Apple's market share in a major way.

Recent entrants into the MP3 market like the Microsoft Zune and SanDisk Sansa have been unanimously cheered by technology gurus worldwide for surpassing the iPod in overall functionality, value, and ease of use.

Some of the strategies that Microsoft and SanDisk have used to overtake Apple in the MP3 arena include subliminal print advertising, hypnotic-inducing technology compliance interfaces, and free coupons in each package (recent reports of coupons for free monkeys were faked - no live animals have been offered as a bonus).

Apple's major failings of late have been irrational decisions like locking out MP3 files from the iPod, forcing consumers to only purchase AAC encoded files from the iTunes music store.

One of the biggest mistakes Apple made recently was packaging green iPod nanos in boxes with a picture of the blue iPod nano on the front, and refusing to exchange the iPods for consumers. There is currently a class-action suit against Apple due to the misleading packaging.

Martin King of the lawfirm Spades, Diamonds, and Clubs is currently representing 1384 litigants in the IEEE-approved lawsuit. Apple's lawyers accidently let slip a memo a few weeks ago expressing their fear of the King of Spades.


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## harzack86 (Jan 30, 2005)

guytoronto said:


> Competition from competitors like Microsoft and SanDisk have been eroding Apple's market share in a major way.
> ...


LOL


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## Macinguelph (Oct 27, 2007)

The easiest gauge in this market for accurate consumer opinion would be a poll of teenagers as to what kind of portable music player they would prefer. Ask them if they would like a Sandisk MP3 player, a Zune, or an iPod. As teens are the target market for these devices, and iPod is being used in the same vein as Coke and Kleenex - people using the brand to identify the general product class, I'm sure that you'll find the majority will choose the iPod.

While other companies offerings may come and go, as long as the iPod stays with or ahead of the trend, it will remain the dominant device.

Now get off of the user group sites and do your homework! You will have to do your own work one day, and practice makes perfect.


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

I love how luddites say iPods and MP3 players like they are different things...hehehehe.


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## minnes (Aug 15, 2001)

Adrian. said:


> I love how luddites say iPods and MP3 players like they are different things...hehehehe.


Is there a competitor to iPod Touch? Zune or archos are really not as feature packed.
I was looking at Archos and some of the cool features need addon peripherals and you have to pay for software to play movies, at least you did, and so on.

If there is a better portable media player than the touch, let me know.


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## timothy (May 3, 2006)

the mackbook air can replace the touch.

no need to touch the screen either, it has a full size keyboard!


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

Do they both play mp3s? Yes or no? Indeed they do. Therefore, they are the same. I am not talking about the touch specifically. Get off your high horse.


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

Adrian. said:


> Do they both play mp3s? Yes or no? Indeed they do. Therefore, they are the same.


All of them play MP3s, but the iPod can also play other formats. As well, you can use an iPod as a portable hard drive and as an audio recording device. Hence, they are not quite as the same as you may think. Most cars burn gasoline, but there is a pretty big difference between a Toyota Camry and an AMC Gremlin...


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

EvanPitts said:


> All of them play MP3s, but the iPod can also play other formats. As well, you can use an iPod as a portable hard drive and as an audio recording device. Hence, they are not quite as the same as you may think. Most cars burn gasoline, but there is a pretty big difference between a Toyota Camry and an AMC Gremlin...


They are both cars. They both do burn gasoline. They may look different and be able to accomplish different actions. Nevertheless, they are still by definition, narrowly defined, automobiles. Likewise, an iPod and a Zune are both mp3 players. They look different and they have different features. Nonetheless, both of their primary functions is to play mp3s. Therefore, narrowly defined, they are both personal mp3 players.



A Ferraris is 100X faster than a Gremlin and looks a lot better etc etc. But are you going to argue it is not a car. It has four wheels, an engine and burns gas.


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## keebler27 (Jan 5, 2007)

guytoronto said:


> Competition from competitors like Microsoft and SanDisk have been eroding Apple's market share in a major way.
> 
> Recent entrants into the MP3 market like the Microsoft Zune and SanDisk Sansa have been unanimously cheered by technology gurus worldwide for surpassing the iPod in overall functionality, value, and ease of use.
> 
> ...


brilliant!


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Adrian. said:


> I love how luddites say iPods and MP3 players like they are different things...hehehehe.


They are different things.

"MP3 players" is a term generally used to refer to non-iPod devices, most of which lack a colour screen or full navigation abilities (though a few have said abilities), are very small (about the size of the original iPod shuffle, though usually bulkier) and very inexpensive ($99 or less).

An "iPod" is not only trademarked as a unique item, it *IS* a unique item by virtue of it's UNIQUE interface to software and it's UNIQUE navigation system.

Saying that "iPod" and "MP3 player" are interchangeable terms because they both play music as a primary function is like saying that "Ferrari" and "Yugo," by virtue of both being "cars," are interchangeable terms.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Adrian. said:


> Nonetheless, both of their primary functions is to play mp3s.


This is, in point of fact, an incorrect statement.

The Zune's PRIMARY function is to play drm-protected WMA files. It *only* plays MP3s because of the dominance of the MP3 format.

Likewise, the iPod's PRIMARY function is to lure you into buying your music and videos from their online store, and to promote the (superior IMHO) AAC format. They only play MP3s because they're not threatened by the MP3 format. 




> Therefore, narrowly defined, they are both personal mp3 players.


Not only is this wrong, but if you try to frame your argument by claiming "narrow definition" (when in fact you mean BROADLY defined!), you're essentially saying that MS, Apple, a radio, a Victrola, a cell phone, an orchestra -- they all play music therefore they are all the same thing. It's a dumb argument with no possible winning scenario.

Put another way, humans are 95% (or some similarly high figure) composed of water, but I can still distinctly tell the difference between a man and the ocean. 

... Well, okay, perhaps a REALLY REALLY FAT guy wearing a lot of blue and having seagulls fly around him _might_ fool me, but you know what I mean.


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

If I go into futureshop and ask the guy to show me some devices that play music he will show me iPods, Zunes, the sony walkmans etc etc etc. You are getting far too into this. Beyond the technicalities of the formatting etc. They both primarily play music. If a car takes premium does it make it entirely different then a car that takes regular. It is not a dumb argument at all.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Adrian. said:


> If I go into futureshop and ask the guy to show me some devices that play music he will show me iPods, Zunes, the sony walkmans etc


Radios, stereo receivers, satellite radios, car radios ... if you ask "the guy" to show you all devices that will play music, you will get shown all of these things AND MORE.

YOU are the one claiming that because all these things play music, that they are the same thing. Clearly, they are not.

Thank you for proving what a dumb argument that is.


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

Why do you continuously deviate from the actual subject. We are talking about personal, portable music play back devices.I didn't think I had to restate that every time. Therefore let me clarify. If I go into future shop and ask the employee to show me some personal, portable music playback devices he will show me iPods, Zunes, Walkmans etc. 

It is not a dumb argument. You are reworking my words to make it sound as such. They are fundamentally the same thing. It doesn't matter what it looks like, what the interface is, what format is uses and doesn't use, what other features it has. Its primary function is a music player. It plays mp3 music files. So do other brands of personal portable music playback devices. Therefore, they are all mp3 players.


Let me restate this in perfect logical reasoning:

An mp3 player is a device that plays mp3 music files as its primary function.

If both iPods and other brands of personal-portable music playback devices play music via mp3 files as their primary function then they are personal mp3 players.

iPods, Zunes and Sony Walkmans, among most other personal-portable music playback devices utilize mp3 file format to playback music, as their primary function.

Therefore, iPods, Zunes, Sony Walkmans among others are mp3 players.


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## marmin (Jan 25, 2008)

*Thank you*

Thank you for helping me every body, especially Mr.gytoronto

Mr.gytoronto, you gave me a great help 

Thank you very very very much.


                            
:clap:


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

Adrian. said:


> iPods, Zunes and Sony Walkmans, among most other personal-portable music playback devices utilize mp3 file format to playback music, as their primary function.
> Therefore, iPods, Zunes, Sony Walkmans among others are mp3 players.


However, an iPod is set apart by virtue of its ultimate utility, and the fact is, it is not an MP3 player, but a portable music player of which the MP3 format is but one format it can handle. That is the success of the iPod, in that it can cater to a wider audience than other players.

A Walkman comes in different varieties, and again, is set apart from other players because of the availability of built in radio tuners, cassette, minidisc (on a minidisc player).

Most of the devices that are called "MP3 players" are just short lived devices that try to clone the iPod, but are inferior by virtue of not being able to store data (as an external hard disk), and not being able to store uncompressed audio in high quality. Some people may settle for a cheap MP3 player, but those who really appreciate their music and all of the other features gravitate towards the iPod.

But then, if you want to lump all audio devices together as MP3 players, then so be it, even if the devices are not MP3 only...


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Adrian. said:


> Let me restate this in perfect logical reasoning:
> 
> An mp3 player is a device that plays mp3 music files as its primary function.


I have no argument with this perfectly logical statement. 



> If both iPods and other brands of personal-portable music playback devices play music via mp3 files as their primary function then they are personal mp3 players.


And the penalty flag IS DOWN! Flawed logic on the field!

An iPod CAN play MP3 format files, but that is emphatically NOT its primary function. This will be repeated until you understand it.



> iPods, Zunes and Sony Walkmans, among most other personal-portable music playback devices utilize mp3 file format to playback music, as their primary function.


Neither iPods NOR Zunes play MP3 files as their PRIMARY FUNCTION. Last time I saw a Sony Walkman, it played Audio CD discs -- which would mean -- wait for it -- that playing MP3s is also not IT'S *primary function.*

Primary. That means first.
Function. That means what it does.

Primary function means what it does first and foremost.

The iPod's primary function IS NOT playing MP3 files. It is really just that simple. This will be repeated until you get it.


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## G-Mo (Sep 26, 2007)

chas_m said:


> Primary. That means first.
> Function. That means what it does.
> 
> Primary function means what it does first and foremost.
> ...


Don't be such a d*ck, Chas... Even Apple referes to the iPod as the "worlds number one selling mp3 player"...


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

The iPod *IS *an MP3 player. Any portable, digital music player is an MP3 player. It doesn't even have to be able to play MP3s to be classified an MP3 player (early Sony players only played a proprietary musci format).

MP3 player is defined as a portable device thats main function is to play music. The iPod falls into this category. It doesn't matter all the bells and whistles and videos and hard drives and etc. that it can do. It's main design, function, and purpose is to play digital music. Therefore, it is an MP3 player.



chas_m said:


> An iPod CAN play MP3 format files, but that is emphatically NOT its primary function.


It doesn't need to play MP3 formatted files to be classified an MP3 player. All that is required is that it play digital music files.


> Neither iPods NOR Zunes play MP3 files as their PRIMARY FUNCTION. Last time I saw a Sony Walkman, it played Audio CD discs -- which would mean -- wait for it -- that playing MP3s is also not IT'S *primary function.*


They play digital audio files as their primary function, so therefore they are MP3 players. A DiscMan doesn't qualify because it doesn't sync with a computer. There's a slight adjustment to the definition. The player must sync with a computer, and play digital music files.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

If Adrian had said the iPod was primarily a "music" or "music files" player, you wouldn't hear a peep out of me.

But an iPod is not ****PRIMARILY**** an MP3 player.

Words. Have. Meaning. Nuff said.


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

chas_m the new sony mp3 players are called walkmans. 

I know that iPods can play mp3, AAC/M4A, protected AAC, AIFF, WAV, Audible audiobook, and Apple lossless audio file format. But who the heck still uses WAV AIFF that uses so much space and has almost exact same quality as mp3 or AAC for less space required. As such, mp3 or AAC formats are pretty much default formats. If it makes you feel better though we can call them music players instead of mp3 players.

I don't understand why you keep arguing with me. An iPod's primary function is an music player. That is fact. You cannot argue it. Apple states that it is a music playing device. If the damn things primary function wasn't playing music then why would they include a version of itunes and headphones with it.




chas_m there may be disputable information but the logic is perfect. That is a perfectly logical statement.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Adrian. said:


> chas_m the new sony mp3 players are called walkmans.


Ah. I see. Thanks for that! 



> As such, mp3 or AAC formats are pretty much default formats. If it makes you feel better though we can call them music players instead of mp3 players.


That is ALL I was correcting you about.



> An iPod's primary function is an music player. That is fact. You cannot argue it. Apple states that it is a music playing device.


I **never** argued against the idea that the iPod is a music player. I specifically said "if you said was primarily a music player you wouldn't hear a peep out of me."

Your insistence that the iPod is *****primarily***** an MP3 player was and continues to be INCORRECT. Now that you've moved the goalposts to "music player," we are in harmony. Cheers.


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

chas_m said:


> Your insistence that the iPod is *****primarily***** an MP3 player was and continues to be INCORRECT.


pri·ma·ri·ly
–adverb
1.	essentially; mostly; chiefly; principally: They live primarily from farming.
2.	in the first instance; at first; originally: Primarily a doctor, he later became a lawyer.

Is the iPod essentially an MP3 player? Yes.
Was the iPod originally an MP3 player? Yes.
Ergo, the iPod is primarily an MP3 player. Chas_m FAIL.


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## tedj (Sep 9, 2004)

chas_m said:


> words


Wow. You post much?* I think you might need a break from all-things Apple. You're just the smallest bit obsessive, I'd wager. 

Oh, and what with chas_m becoming unhinged, no one noticed the OP didn't pick up on guytoronto's tone. smrt.

*edit: wait a minute here. You joined a month ago, and you've almost 1000 posts? That's just not cool.


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

thanks guytoronto.

chas_m was starting to give me a headache.


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

Adrian. said:


> If I go into future shop and ask the employee to show me some personal, portable music playback devices he will show me iPods, Zunes, Walkmans etc.


I'm pretty sure said Future Shop employee _will not_ show you a Zune (unless he, _personally_ has one to show you).


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

guytoronto said:


> Is the iPod essentially an MP3 player? Yes.
> Was the iPod originally an MP3 player? Yes.
> Ergo, the iPod is primarily an MP3 player. Chas_m FAIL.


You're a funny guy, but no less wrong on this point.


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

chas_m I think for the sake of time, effort and me not caring anymore, we should call a truce. Deal?


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

chas_m said:


> You're a funny guy, but no less wrong on this point.


I've given a very precise definition of an MP3 player, how the iPod fits into the description. Care to back up your statement? How am I wrong? Prove me wrong.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Adrian. said:


> chas_m I think for the sake of time, effort and me not caring anymore, we should call a truce. Deal?


Adrian:

We already did. You changed your definition to a correct one (the iPod is primarily a MUSIC player) in a previous post. We are in harmony. Ommmm ....


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