# Get Driver's Licence / Quit High School - Pick One



## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

link: http://www.cbc.ca/toronto/story/to_licence20051213.html?ref=rss

I think this is a great idea. But what will they do with 17 yrs old drop outs who already have a licence: suspend them?

Will the teenage mother who quit school to raise her child lose her licence too?

Manipulating people like this is not my political preference. But the difference between 16 yrs and 18 yrs isn't that much. It's not like denying high school drop-outs a driver's licence for their whole life, right?


----------



## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

I knew only one teenage mother who quit school completely, the others were still enrolled but just took an extended leave, continuing their education when their babies were old enough to be put into my high school's free daycare (6 months). 

Side note, one mother I knew graduated with honours for her entire five years of high school, took a one year maternity leave but continued merrily on her way with her education. I only had three years so imagine that.


----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

The way these things go, likely current license holders will be grandfathered. It is about time that some measure like this was taken.


----------



## andrewenterprise (May 22, 2005)

Though this is an incentive for people to continue high school, sometimes school isn't for everyone. Call me crazy, but I see people who are struggling day in day out with high school. Its not as easy as everyone perceives it to be, and though it doesn't get any easier, suspending the privilage to drive just doesnt make sense. By doing so, they are just making it harder for those who have dropped out to make any moves "in the right direction". Chances are, if they're delinquent enough to not attend school, then they're going to find other ways of getting around it, or better yet, drive unlicensed (and yes, I know of numerous cases of this happening). There are certainly a number of more effective ways to encourage people to stay in school.


----------



## Paul O'Keefe (Jun 3, 2005)

This is wrong. School is not for everybody. You have the right to drop out if you choose to after a certain again. Tying the obtainment of a license to continuied enrollment in school is good intentioned but offensive and will be struck down.

I mean who is going to drive taxis, couriers, and delivery pizza now?


----------



## SoyMac (Apr 16, 2005)

I hope this legislation is struck down. School is perhaps a necessity for most, but a stultifying prison for some. When I was in high school, I day-dreamed and fidgeted and couldn't wait til classes were over so that I could race to the library to study the things that really interested me. If I could go back in time, I'd skip high school, and study art and music, preferrably as an assistant and through internships. 

A driver's license is more of a necessity in rural areas than in cities, so already there is a differentiation as to the hardship this rule would impose on different people.

If we're going to condone limiting people's transportation abilities, why not deny _passports_ to drop-outs? What about bus passes, bicycles, or travelling outside one's county boundaries?

I think young people shuld have _more_ education/life options, not fewer.


----------



## Jacklar (Jul 23, 2005)

I don't agree with this at all. I could see this ending up as a charter challenge if it even made it close to becoming a law.


----------



## Paul O'Keefe (Jun 3, 2005)

Exactly. Soon after it is first used the courts would overturn such a law.


----------



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

> This is wrong. School is not for everybody. You have the right to drop out if you choose to after a certain again.


True, but perhaps the government is more concerned with uneducated people running our society in the future. Completeing high school really isn't that much to ask for, and I know very well that it isn't so simple as others put - I too struggled in high school (hence why I didn't pursue post-secondary education), but there wasn't any justifiable reason as to why I wasn't capable of finishing. As the article mentions, *30%* of students drop-out - that isn't exactly a tiny figure. The majority of drop-outs, so I would assume (prove me wrong), end up having jobs they hate (and are bad in general), or don't get jobs period. If either one of those sitations comes to light, they may pursue other methods of income that are illegal, and use other survival tactics that are either illegal or an annoyance to us others, or end up homeless or get into crime. (or all of the above.) It's extremely difficult to get somewhere in life, or get a decent job to make decent money to live off of, without a high school diploma, unless you have a natural or self-taught skill that some specific employers would be thoroughly impressed by.


----------



## Cameo (Aug 3, 2004)

If people do not have the commitment to finsih high school, then how are they going to commit to a job or a career, if they can get one without finishing school? Too many people just okay with delivering pizza or working at mcdonalds.......nothing wrong with the jobs or the people.......but you don't make enough to survive on. So you take on a second job..............

I realize that a high school education does not guarantee a job..........but the lack of one certainly guarantees that you don't get a decent paying one...so more people on welfare, or on the street, depressed..........the list goes on and I think you get the point.


----------



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

Cameo said:


> If people do not have the commitment to finsih high school, then how are they going to commit to a job or a career, if they can get one without finishing school? Too many people just okay with delivering pizza or working at mcdonalds.......nothing wrong with the jobs or the people.......but you don't make enough to survive on. So you take on a second job..............
> 
> I realize that a high school education does not guarantee a job..........but the lack of one certainly guarantees that you don't get a decent paying one...so more people on welfare, or on the street, depressed..........the list goes on and I think you get the point.


Well put.


----------



## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

I think it's a stupid idea - a case of the government taking the role the parents.


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

The only people I can see being hurt by this is children that get kicked out of the
house at 16 and end up quitting school and finding work in order to stay alive.

Denying them a drivers licence is just plain criminal negligence.

It's typical of the government to do something like this.


----------



## andrewenterprise (May 22, 2005)

By implementing this, theyre just creating more problems. As I stated before, these kids who are dropping out are mostly delinquents, so if they can't legally drive, they'll get around it. They're just creating more of a problem that is going to need to be enforced.


----------



## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

Cameo said:


> If people do not have the commitment to finsih high school, then how are they going to commit to a job or a career, if they can get one without finishing school? Too many people just okay with delivering pizza or working at mcdonalds.......nothing wrong with the jobs or the people.......but you don't make enough to survive on. So you take on a second job..............
> 
> I realize that a high school education does not guarantee a job..........but the lack of one certainly guarantees that you don't get a decent paying one...so more people on welfare, or on the street, depressed..........the list goes on and I think you get the point.


I'm sorry, but I agree with Andrew, probably because I grew up in a rural area. School isn't for everyone. Farmers, construction workers, warehouse workers, window makers, etc. don't need a complete high school education to do a job, and committing to finishing high school has nothing to do with committing yourself to a job. I still remember this granite/marble worker I met on a construction site, 16 years old, married, with kids and the best hard worker they had. There are other good examples. BUT, if you drop out, you better find yourself a job and work for a living. You should also probably have a plan before you drop out as well, because if what you're looking at for a future job or career eventually requires a high-school diploma, it's a lot harder to get after you've dropped out. I agree that they should be offering more apprentice and co-op type classes for the non-academic types at schools, but even then, dropping out shouldn't be illegal. But then again, a 50% or 60% dropout rate isn't right, either. We can't have 50 - 60% dropping out like in one area of Toronto.


----------



## Cameo (Aug 3, 2004)

What kind of job are you going to get without a high school diploma?


----------



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

> I think it's a stupid idea - a case of the government taking the role the parents.


Parents, in many cases, also just don't care what their kids do. If some neglecting parents don't do their job properly, someone else has to do it for them. Granted, this doesn't apply to all families, but there are plenty enough and then some.



> The only people I can see being hurt by this is children that get kicked out of the
> house at 16 and end up quitting school and finding work in order to stay alive.


That's a good point. Then again, parents kicking out their kids at the age of 16 is ridiculous at best, and should be considered parental negligence before government negligence. There's no justifiable reason to kick your kids about before they complete high school at least, and even then, a good half of students graduate at age 17, which isn't even _that_ old.


----------



## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

Cameo said:


> What kind of job are you going to get without a high school diploma?


Man where do you live? Certainly not in Canada. There are millions of people working that don't have a high school diploma or even a grade 10 education!

I certainly don't advocate that kids drop out and if I had kids of my own they would have a hard time convincing me that they're going to drop out. In my family there was 4 of us and one dropped out, two went to "college" or some sort of college courses, and I was the only one to get a degree from University.


----------



## mr.steevo (Jul 22, 2005)

> Ralph Philip Klein was born in Calgary November 1, 1942. Educated in Calgary, he interrupted his high school studies to enlist in the Canadian Air Force. Upon leaving the service, Mr. Klein completed his high school education, eventually becoming principal of the Calgary Business College.


http://www.gov.ab.ca/premier/biography.cfm

Whew! Luckly he returned to high school!

I find it interesting that people are suggesting that without a high school diploma you will not be successful. For some people high school is not the place for them to be, but that doesn't mean they will all become welfare users "burdening" the system. Looking at apprenticeship programs offered at the local technical college does not mention the words high school in admission criteria. It seems that some people are very quick to dismiss the trades in this country even though a brick layer or a drywaller makes $20/hr and up. I just recieved a bill from my electrician and his apprentice is getting paid $44/hr while he gets $58/hr. How many on this board can claim to have made that kind of money before they were 20?

This law is supposedly used to deal with the "slacker" drop outs in high school by disallowing them to drive. Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that these students would not be able to drive simply due to their lack of motivation to earn money to buy a car, licence, and insurance? The link of attendance in high school and having a drivers licence seems a bit tenuous at best.

s.


----------



## Guest (Dec 14, 2005)

I strongly oppose this and I think it's a HUGE infringement on Canadian's rights to be honest. If they have a problem with 16 year olds dropping out of school raise the age. High school is not for everyone. I'm a high school dropout. I have no diploma and could care less if I ever get one. I have a good (actually great!) job and dropping out was one of the best things I did at that point in my life honestly. I'm not encouraging anyone to follow in these footsteps by any means, but this is ludicrous!


----------



## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

Finally, someone who doesn't need a reality check! 

Exactly Mr. Steevo and mguertin. Not having a high school diploma doesn't prevent you from starting your own business, being a farmer, a tradesperson, artists, and the list goes on.


----------



## Guest (Dec 14, 2005)

Kosh said:


> Finally, someone who doesn't need a reality check!
> 
> Exactly Mr. Steevo and mguertin. Not having a high school diploma doesn't prevent you from starting your own business, being a farmer, a tradesperson, and the list goes on.


Exactly. I am currently the IT manager for an internationally known and award winning design firm. I've done consulting in the computer world with a client list including places like CBC, UPS, National Ballet of Canada (the list goes on...). I've also worked in several other business sectors including television and video, professional audio and managed to work with some pretty high profile people/talent/companies in that realm as well as making a decent buck 

No one has honestly _ever_ asked me, in any professional fields, for my high school diploma! In fact they have never asked if I have graduated high school. The one thing that has been asked of me in many interviews however is where I got my "certifications" from -- both in the computer realm and the video/audio realm. When I say that I don't have any it's generally a shock, but after they look at the clientele list and letters of reference that topic dies quickly.

I read a joke in the Joke de Jour thread last night that comes to mind to put things into perspective for me as far as having a "proper" education goes:

Q: What do you call a med student that graduates at the very bottom of the list for their class?
A: Doctor

I honestly think that a lot of, but not all, formal education is overrated. I know many people that are "certified" for many things that honestly have very little clue about them in reality.


----------



## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

mguertin said:


> I honestly think that a lot of, but not all, formal education is overrated. I know many people that are "certified" for many things that honestly have very little clue about them in reality.


Very true. Just like some jobs aren't for everyone, some forms of education aren't for everyone. A common standard of high school diploma ignores a lot of alternatives (whereas a common standard somewhere around grade 9-10, for example, would seem much more reasonable).

It's about what you like, as best you can tell around 16, and confusing this with the value of basic education leads to, well, what Ontario is doing. 

The best idea is to always leave the door open with well funded an accessible continuing education programs for people to learn new skills and, if they change their mind, finish high school. Telling them what they must do with a threat of removing some other option will accomplish little and may actually result in more harm than good.


----------



## Trevor... (Feb 21, 2003)

I think they should be making it easier for people to drop out of school, not harder. I think kids should be allowed to drop out of school at age 12.

Those who don't want to be there, and make it clear to the rest of the school, just waste the time and resources of everyone else until they are old enough to drop out. 

Of the people I began junior high with, only a handful of my class graduated from high school, the rest were basically criminals who terrorized the rest of the school.

I had teachers literally walk out of class because they were completely out of control.

There should be resources for those struggling with school, but when it comes to the criminals in training, if they don't want to be there, let them leave.


----------



## gwillikers (Jun 19, 2003)

So let me get this straight... people who are tormented by the school atmosphere, perhaps bullied, perhaps teased for being different, or even uncomfortable due to a learning disability (the list goes on), and who have chosen to get out, now have to walk or take transit?

The people responsible for dreaming up this rule deserve a good swift kick in their punitive butts. And then take THEIR licences away.  

tptptptp


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Seems to me that a drivers license is one way to ensure employment for those who are either unable or unwilling to complete high school. Tradesmen jobs, where many high school dropouts wind up, require a drivers license to get from job to job as do delivery jobs, taxi drivers, truck drivers and a host of other services essential to today's society. The idea is ludicrous.


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

SINC said:


> Seems to me that a drivers license is one way to ensure employment for those who are either unable or unwilling to complete high school. Tradesmen jobs, where many high school dropouts wind up, require a drivers license to get from job to job as do delivery jobs, taxi drivers, truck drivers and a host of other services essential to today's society. The idea is ludicrous.


Looks like an oxymoron, Betja guns get more popular amoungst kids because of this.


----------



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

> ...now have to walk or take transit?


How many drop-outs can afford a vehicle?


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Lars said:


> How many drop-outs can afford a vehicle?


Every one of them that winds up in a trade appears to buy a vehicle very early on in their career. Like I said it is a priority for getting from job to job, or they require a driver's license to drive a company supplied vehicle. Either way they need that drivers license.


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Lars said:


> How many drop-outs can afford a vehicle?


I knew a guy when I was an apprentice carpenter that lived in his car,
He couldn't afford an apt, So living in his car during hard times was the only way to make ends meet.


----------



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

SINC said:


> Every one of them that winds up in a trade appears to buy a vehicle very early on in their career. Like I said it is a priority for getting from job to job, or they require a driver's license to drive a company supplied vehicle. Either way they need that drivers license.


Isn't that the point?  You're right - either way, you need a Drivers License. This law should be justified motivation to stay in school.

I also don't agree with the argument that school isn't for everybody, and therefore justifies dropping out; true - school isn't for everyone, but everyone can at least tolerate finishing high school. It's not only the high school diploma that counts when finishing high school, but it also shows you have at least basic to advanced essential skills, such as the ability to read and write properly. Most drop-outs can't spell or read properly, making them even more useless to society and further inhibiting their ability to find work.



> So let me get this straight... people who are tormented by the school atmosphere, perhaps bullied, perhaps teased for being different, or even uncomfortable due to a learning disability (the list goes on), and who have chosen to get out, now have to walk or take transit?


People who have difficulty learning should get additional professional extra help - not give up on life and become a burden on our society by doing nothing useful for anyone. Secondly, if you can't face the bullying, teasing, or if you can't help but be uncomfortable outside your warm family, what makes you believe you're ready for the real-world?



> No one has honestly _ever_ asked me, in any professional fields, for my high school diploma!


That's probably due to the fact that the fields you work in, the employers are under the automatic assumption that you do have your high school diploma, and have no need to ask. In most more professional fields, employers will ask if you have related training/certification, or post-secondardy education - having finished high school is typically automatically assumed.


----------



## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Lars said:


> This law should be justified motivation to stay in school.


That's quite an assumption. Keep the law out of my private life as much as possible please.





Lars said:


> I also don't agree with the argument that school isn't for everybody, and therefore justifies dropping out; true - school isn't for everyone, but everyone can at least tolerate finishing high school.


Have you ever met teens from broken homes? Difficult situations? Where there is sexual abuse? Where poverty is dictates how you live? Someone who is pregnant or with child?
Under those circumstances "survival" is essential not school. 




Lars said:


> People who have difficulty learning should get additional professional extra help


And where does one get extra help? Catch 22.... 



Lars said:


> - not give up on life and become a burden on our society by doing nothing useful for anyone.


What a load of crap - you assume that someone who drops out will automatically become on welfare - says a lot about your assumptions and mindset...




Lars said:


> Secondly, if you can't face the bullying, teasing, or if you can't help but be uncomfortable outside your warm family, what makes you believe you're ready for the real-world?


Maybe they can't be comfortable inside their abusive family and will find it easier in the real world.


----------



## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Cameo said:


> And where are they working.............McDonalds? Tim Hortons?


Would you like a list of famous high school drop outs? You'll find people like Peter Jennings, Ansel Adams, Julie Andrews, Jack London to Robert De Niro....


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Don't be too hasty to make the assumption that just because a person hasn't finished high school they automatically wind up at McDonald's or Tim Horton's.

During my working years I had many very bright people who did not finish high school being very highly paid employees.

Some were naturals and became press operators, or high tech equipment operators at well over $30 an hour. I can't even begin to count the number of sales types who had not finished high school and regularly took home 50 to 60 grand a year.

Add to that the number of businesses owned by people who hit on a good idea, but lacked a high school diploma and anything is possible.

They succeed on plain desire and hard work and should not be assumed to be somehow inferior to those of us who have that diploma.


----------



## Cameo (Aug 3, 2004)

"Would you like a list of famous high school drop outs? You'll find people like Peter Jennings, Ansel Adams, Julie Andrews, Jack London to Robert De Niro...."

Different generation.......different society. I believe that staying in school provides a person with a better chance.

"Don't be too hasty to make the assumption that just because a person hasn't finished high school they automatically wind up at McDonald's or Tim Horton's."

Probably not.........but what percentage of drop outs actually find a decent paying job?

I don't agree with this new legislation, I think it is a stupid idea..........but I believe that kids need to stay in school. 

I double - thought my post and deleted it, I had hoped before anyone read it, because I decided it was too narrow minded. That doesn't change my belief that a high school education is highly important. Or certification, apprenticeships..........education of some sort.


----------



## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

Lars said:


> How many drop-outs can afford a vehicle?


This may surprise you, but alot of them can afford a car and an apartment! You can get a working car for under $1000, I think one of my University roommates, found one for under $200. 

Can you guys READ the thread. Alot of these people aren't destitute or broke. They MAY live at home until they find a good job or they MAY work a lousy job or two until they learn they're trade. Others go into the family business or work with a relative or a friend of a relative. Or they even take the initiative to go after a job on their own.


----------



## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Cameo, like you, I believe high school education is of great value. 

You will find people of "our" generation that are drop outs. Jim Clark (found of Netscape), Bill Bartman, Thomas Dolby, Bryan Adams, Liz Claiborne, Celine Dion etc..
http://www.angelfire.com/stars4/lists/dropouts.html

But even believing that education is of great value is does not guarantee "smarts"...


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ArtistSeries said:


> But even believing that education is of great value is does not guarantee "smarts"...


Nor does the lack of a high school education guarantee "stupids".


----------



## Cameo (Aug 3, 2004)

I don't think that many of the drop outs are stupid.....far be it...there are many reasons I am sure that kids drop out..........I have four boys and issues of my own, as do they, with school.........but as a parent I want the VERY best of futures for my children, and I believe that for the most part, the school years are probably the easiest years they will have and a very important part of their future. There are issues for kids at school, sure, but there are issues in the workplace too and they need to learn how to handle them. There is more support for kids from teachers, counsellors and peers in school. There is the pressure to do well........but there are pressures in the workplace as well.


----------



## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Cameo said:


> but as a parent I want the VERY best of futures for my children,


And that is why I think that the government should butt-out and let parents be parents.... If they want to help, they can with tools but I don't think Big Brother should take over parents job...


----------



## Cameo (Aug 3, 2004)

ArtistSeries said:


> And that is why I think that the government should butt-out and let parents be parents.... If they want to help, they can with tools but I don't think Big Brother should take over parents job...



Agreed


----------



## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

One week we have a post about giving 16-year olds a vote (which came out of nowhere, but whatever) where the majority of posts seemed to support the measure.

Now, we have another proposed measure that gives a drivers' license (coincidentally, a fundamental building block of the pro-16-vote arguments) only to a select group of 16 and 17 year olds, and everyone loves the idea.

All I can say is, you can't have it both ways. Either 16 and 17 year old people are mature enough to make important life decisions or they are not.


----------



## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Gord, trying to understand your point of view but I don't see it.
This is a question of the government of Ontario attaching a condition for teens to receive/keep their drivers license. It the government taking over the role of a parent/guardian. 
For the record, I'm not for 16-17 year olds voting but have no problem with 16-17 having provisional drivers license.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

gordguide said:


> One week we have a post about giving 16-year olds a vote (which came out of nowhere, but whatever) where the majority of posts seemed to support the measure.
> 
> Now, we have another proposed measure that gives a drivers' license (coincidentally, a fundamental building block of the pro-16-vote arguments) only to a select group of 16 and 17 year olds, and everyone loves the idea.
> 
> All I can say is, you can't have it both ways. Either 16 and 17 year old people are mature enough to make important life decisions or they are not.


Right gordguide. Let them vote and remove any restriction from them obtaining a drivers license. They should be treated no differently than say a 25 year old first time driver.


----------



## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> And that is why I think that the government should butt-out and let parents be parents.... If they want to help, they can with tools but I don't think Big Brother should take over parents job...


Does that go for idiotic parents too? Where do we draw the line? Some parents have zero clue how to raise a child. My father hit me as a child. Should the government just butt-out and let parents be parents?

Once again, people are failing to realize that kids are dumb. Teenagers are dumb. 16yo kids are dumb. I was a dumb 16yo. So were you. They can't make intelligent decisions 99% of the time. That is why kids skip school, start smoking, get pregnant, do drugs, get drunk, smash up cars, etc, etc.

Maybe this legislation will make kids think twice about dropping out of school. As an employer, I won't even look at a new hire unless he (or she) has a high-school diploma or equivalent. Believe it or not, a high school diploma actually means something.


----------



## andrewenterprise (May 22, 2005)

Kosh said:


> Man where do you live? Certainly not in Canada. There are millions of people working that don't have a high school diploma or even a grade 10 education!
> 
> I certainly don't advocate that kids drop out and if I had kids of my own they would have a hard time convincing me that they're going to drop out. In my family there was 4 of us and one dropped out, two went to "college" or some sort of college courses, and I was the only one to get a degree from University.


The majority of which have had their jobs for a good number of years and have proven themselves as an employee. These people, when laid off (theyre mainly factory workers) have a difficult time finding a job.


----------



## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

guytoronto said:


> Does that go for idiotic parents too? Where do we draw the line? Some parents have zero clue how to raise a child. My father hit me as a child. Should the government just butt-out and let parents be parents?


How far to you want the government to control every aspect of your life? Might as well have them dictate you from cradle to your grave... A little soma with that?


----------



## mr.steevo (Jul 22, 2005)

andrewenterprise said:


> The majority of which have had their jobs for a good number of years and have proven themselves as an employee. These people, when laid off (theyre mainly factory workers) have a difficult time finding a job.



I remember in the 80's when the price of oil dropped lots of people lost their jobs. My chemical engineer father and all his cronies lost their jobs from very large employers and were collecting EI for over a year. Meanwhile my mother who left school at the age of 16 (British system) continued working throughout that time while paying all the bills and the mortgage.

I don't see the link between having a drivers licence and attending school. Besides, what is stopping Johnny from going to school for a week while he is getting his drivers licence and then quiting school a week later? How exactly is having access to a drivers licence going to keep someone IN school? People leave school for reasons I can't even begin to imagine, but is driving on that list? If someone is dropping out of school it isn't because they want to have more time in their day to drive.

I agree that having a diploma is helpful, and a lot of other people who drop out must come to the same conclusion otherwise there wouldn't be enrolement in adult education and General Equivilancy Diplomas. Driving and high school attendance is a link I'm having difficulty understanding. This law is nothing more than a punitive, knee jerk reaction to an education attendance problem rather than a well thought out solution. 

s


----------



## mr.steevo (Jul 22, 2005)

Besides, how are these 16 year olds supposed to rent movies during the day without a drivers licence?


----------



## Cameo (Aug 3, 2004)

Regarding "Besides, what is stopping Johnny from going to school for a week while he is getting his drivers licence and then quiting school a week later? " -they will simply suspend the drivers license as soon as they realize he is no longer in school.
I can't see this legislation helping anything at all.


----------



## gwillikers (Jun 19, 2003)

Lars said:


> How many drop-outs can afford a vehicle?


Geez Lars, didn't you ever borrow the family car when you were 16 or 17?

:yikes:


----------



## gwillikers (Jun 19, 2003)

The thing one needs to ask is, what's next? :yikes: 

Do we need some high paid suits, with career motives (who live quite comfortably thank you very much) imposing punitive rules on our kids?

And, does this "pound 'em over the head" approach really seem to have any vision to you? You either appeal to these kids earlier on, listen to what they have to say, and make adjustments, or forget it. By 16 you've either got them or you've lost them. Punishing them at that point just makes them distrust the "establishment" even more.

I strongly disagree with the idea that teenagers are dumb. That's the kind of blanket statement that leads to such ridiculous rules actually getting out of the gate.

Big brother is apparently alive and well in Canada.


----------



## mr.steevo (Jul 22, 2005)

Hi,

I always thought it was the adults that were dumb because they were usually the cause of most problems in the world, and they wouldn't learn from past mistakes. I guess I was stupid for thinking that. 

s


----------



## martman (May 5, 2005)

The problem I have with this is that when you force people to stay in school every one in that school suffers.
Kids who don't wan't to be in school are a disruptive influence on classes. The solution is to create ciricula that are designed for people who are not doing well with the "normal" ciriculum. Our one size fits all ( well two sizes fits all) public education system lets a significant portion of the population down. These people are who drops out.
All we are doing here is creating more class clowns. People who don't want to to be in school shouldn't be there. We will see an increase in the danger that students face from each other, drug use, and petty crime in and around schools as people who don't want to be there act out. All these people will be forced to stay in school and hang out with the kids who want to do well. Is this really productive?

What I'm trying to say is that we should be trying to figure out why people are dropping out of school and comming up with real solutions instead of forcing kids and turing high school into a babysitting service for 16 and 17 year olds. Stay in school legislation is a reaction not a solution to the drop out problem.

Now I live in toronto and I've never heard of any neighbourhood that has a 60% dropout rate so please tell me to which neighbourhood you are refering to?


----------



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

gwillikers said:


> Geez Lars, didn't you ever borrow the family car when you were 16 or 17?
> 
> :yikes:


Didn't have my license until I was 19.


----------



## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

I still don't have a driver's licence, and I'm 33. I live in downtown, near Union Station, and have easy access to the entire GTA.

The has been much discussion about not requiring high school to be a successful member of society. I agree.

But everyone seems to be missing the key point: they aren't denying a licence for life, but only for 2 years.

Truthfully, I haven't followed this issue. I may already be a dead issue politically, and I wouldn't know.

If the gov't thinks everyone should finish high school, they should simply pass a law requiring it, by increasing the attendance requirement from 16 to 18 years old. I think the whole stay-in-school/keep-licence law was an attempt to create a legal "carrot," but if that bothers everyone, a legal "stick" always works.


----------

