# Unusual AM Radio Reception Problem



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

My favourite AM radio station is CFCW, 790 on the dial, originally a Camrose based station, but now with studios in both Camrose and Edmonton. It is Alberta's largest listened to country music station and has been for many years. It is always on in my vehicles and in the house, especially during the early morning hours each day.

Back in 2001, we won a brand new Ford Windstar van and after taking delivery, I pre-set the stations on AM and FM with position one AM being 790. That is when I began to notice the fading in and out and the distorted sound coming from that radio. This does not happen with either my 2001 Suzuki, nor with my motor home, also a Ford. Both of those radios play normally.

I took it in to the Ford dealer while still under warranty and they in turn send me to an Edmonton audio shop that handles their radio repair problems. The fellow at the service desk listened to my problem of reception with 790 AM and the first question he asked was, "what kind of vehicle is it"? A Ford Windstar, I replied. "Sorry," he said, "there's nothing we can do about it. It is a crap radio with that 790 problem and we can't fix it. Ford is very aware of this problem in this area, so try going to them for a replacement."

I did just that and went all the way to the head office of Ford of Canada, but the end result was sorry your radio doesn't work on that station, but our warranty will not cover that problem as we do not make the radios. Solution? I now listen to a FM station in the van.

Then this past week, the Radio Shack portable radio I bought over 20 years back quit. It was the one I listened to 790 on in the house in the mornings. I decided to upgrade to a better sound of radio and bought a Bose Wave radio as I have always loved their sound:










I brought it home, read the instructions noting the power supply cord itself was the antenna, placed it in position according to the instructions and turned on my favourite station, CFCW 790 AM.

Much to my dismay, no matter where I put it in the house, I get the same garbled reception and annoying "background buzz" that I get in the Windstar. Go figure.

Anyone else out there ever have this kind of reception problem with a certain brand of radio?


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

The real solution, unfortunately, is government regulation. Digital radio has been around for a while. The government sees fit to force all TV manufacturers to build-in digital reception capabilities in the next few years. If they had done the same for car radios, more cars on the road would have access to digital radio.

Your favourite AM station could then broadcast both AM and Digital.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Just how overpriced was that Bose radio?

The millions spent on advertising have to be recouped somehow.

I'm not sure which I like better, the description of why sound is "better" coming from the Bose radio, or that the internet is a series of pneumatic tubes first developed in the Eisenhower years.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

HowEver said:


> Just how overpriced was that Bose radio?


You know However, I am really getting tired of your continued picking at anything I post. If you can't contribute anything constructive, piss off.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

SINC said:


> You know However, I am really getting tired of your continued picking at anything I post. If you can't contribute anything constructive, piss off.


Don't take it personally. I really do think these radios are overpriced. No need to over-react. I haven't said anything personal about you, ever.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

HowEver said:


> Don't take it personally. I really do think these radios are overpriced. No need to over-react. I haven't said anything personal about you, ever.


I am not over reacting. The question was about reception on AM radio, not your opinion on the particular brand I bought. Your insinuation that brand is overpriced tosses barbs at me as being foolish to buy one, or at least that is how I interpret the comment. Yesterday you were picking at my use of language. Like I said, contribute to the discussion subject or piss off.


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## robert (Sep 26, 2002)

Sinc, how about going to a Sally Ann or thrift shop nd getting an older radio?
Every now and again I see good brand names in our local shops. (People wanting the latest greatest)
I know what you are going through by the way, our Sony "home theatre" unit is supposed to have radio capabilities, but it sucks for reception. Gets nothing. I have to go get an antenna and see if that helps.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Now there's a thought robert, thanks for that, I'll look into it as the Sally Ann thrift store is only a kilometer or so from my house.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

SINC said:


> I am not over reacting. The question was about reception on AM radio, not your opinion on the particular brand I bought. Your insinuation that brand is overpriced tosses barbs at me as being foolish to buy one, or at least that is how I interpret the comment. Yesterday you were picking at my use of language. Like I said, contribute to the discussion subject or piss off.


Welcome to the interweb.

If we stopped and counted how many times somebody had made a comment about eBay (for example) and someone else made the comment "It's for thieves and losers" we would tire quickly of counting. Hell, we make the comment for those people now.

There is nothing personal about the comment about language despite the irony involved and there is nothing personal about the comment about the radio.

This isn't somebody's living room. Actually, if it were, you might expect *more **tolerance* when the discussion didn't go the way the host wanted.

You can continue to hold your breath and stamp your feet, but from now on you need to either follow a thread's subject to perfection or follow your own advice.

Read what I wrote again. You won't find anything personal in it.


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## Deep Blue (Sep 16, 2005)

SINC said:


> You know However, I am really getting tired of your continued picking at anything I post. If you can't contribute anything constructive, piss off.





SINC said:


> I am not over reacting... you were picking at my use of language. Like I said, contribute to the discussion subject or piss off.


Let's reign it in, guys. No matter what you think, Sync, telling another member to "piss off" (twice, no less) is inappropriate.

Chill!


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## ErnstNL (Apr 12, 2003)

SINC,
Most table radios use an internal ferrite bar antenna for AM reception and positioning the antenna correctly may solve your problem. (Maybe you knew this already)
Try turning the radio around in different positions. I've found a quarter turn makes a big difference in reception. I can get 3 stations from New York at night with my little Sony radio: WCBS, Bloomberg and WABC. Sometimes I can get a station from Chicago. I just turn it around on the table till reception improves.
If it has an external antenna connection like my Panasonic stereo, maybe you could try one of those loop antennas that come with newer receivers. You can move it around to get better reception.
I find it odd that your Bose radio can't pick up that station through all the other muck. Are there other stations at 800 or 780 over-riding the signal?


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Back on topic please. 

I wish I had some advice to offer SINC, but I have no experience.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

a) He's right about Bose - it's a joke in the audio industry so when it comes up it's about as virulent a bait as Mac vs PC.

b) almost anything can be an AM antenna - the longer the better. Try a small wire to the water pipes or heating ducts.




















> Long Wire Antenna
> 
> The relatively simple long wire antenna can be used as an extension to a radio’s existing antenna, or connected to the radio receiver terminals.
> 
> ...


This might be the solution



> If you have a favorite AM radio station, but experience poor reception, the Twin Coil Ferrite AM Antenna may be just what you’re looking for. This patented AM antenna doubles daytime reception, dramatically reduces nighttime fade out, and can even eliminate heavy static and distortion. Connect to your radio to hear distant low-power stations with amazing clarity. Works with any radio, from portables to home stereos, and includes a unique wireless ferrite stick for use with receivers without antenna connectors. Also includes a wire patch cord for radios with antenna connectors. The basic package comes with five feet of cable to connect the antenna to the tuner, but we also offer 25-foot and 50-foot extension cable kits (see below). Ideal for boosting AM radio reception in brick, stucco, or metal-sided homes. Tuner Size: 3.3" W x 4.3" H x 2" D. Antenna Size: 8.5" W x 2.5" H x 1.3" D. (Pat. #US 6,529,169 B2)
> 
> Customer Testimonial
> I have installed the Twin Coil Ferrite AM Antenna on my CCRadio plus and its performance is unbelievable. I can hear stations perfectly clear now, that I couldn't make out before. This is truly a great addition to my listening on AM. It is certainly nice to buy something that performs much better than advertised.


The Ferrite stick will let it work in the car inductively to your existing attenna










http://www.ccrane.com/antennas/am-antennas/twin-coil-ferrite-am-antenna.aspx


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ErnstNL said:


> SINC,
> Most table radios use an internal ferrite bar antenna for AM reception and positioning the antenna correctly may solve your problem. (Maybe you knew this already)
> Try turning the radio around in different positions. I've found a quarter turn makes a big difference in reception.


Yes ErnstNL, I know the turning trick and I have tried it. There is definitely one position where the reception is better than any other, but there is an annoying background "buzz", almost like electrical interference. I tried using different power outlets but the noise is still there and only at 790 and not at any other setting. There is a station at 760 and one at 880, and both work well.



MacDoc said:


> almost anything can be an AM antenna - the longer the better. Try a small wire to the water pipes or heating ducts.


I remember as a kid, my dad ran a simple uninsulated copper wire from the house to the barn, about a 200 foot run, insulated at both ends and run to the back of the old kitchen radio back in the early fifties. It was on that simple little radio that we listened to hundreds of US stations every night. We also enjoyed solid AM reception all day long, of local stations in Saskatoon and Regina and Medicine Hat, each some three hours away by road.

The Bose does indeed have a plug in type sort for an external antenna, so I will rig up a plug and try it over the weekend. 

Thanks all for the ideas.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Remember too the sunspot cycle has a huge impact on the reception.

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/fsd/astro/sunspots.php

Since 2006 is a low sunspot activity time reception should be better than normal.
You are far enough north tho to be affected by vanAllen fluctuations. Along with the Northern Lights can come radio issues.



> Researchers Find Saturn's Radio Emissions, Bright Auroras Linked
> Just as the static on an AM radio grows louder with the approach of a summer lightning storm, strong radio emissions accompany bright auroral spots -- similar to Earth's northern lights -- on the planet Saturn, according to a research paper published in the Thursday, Feb. 17 issue of the journal Nature.


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/02/050223123045.htm

Here's the techincal aspect of AM Radio transmission ( and others )

http://www.fas.org/spp/military/docops/army/ref_text/chap5im.htm

Suggest chasing your fav stations on the Internet maybe.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Alas, CFCW does not have an internet broadcast. Drat.


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## Fink-Nottle (Feb 25, 2001)

Hi Macdoc,

Why are Bose radios a joke? A friend of mine has one and I was seriously impressed by the sound and quality on it... I was thinking of one for my lounge when/if I come into money. 

Sinc... how do you like yours, this AM issue notwithstanding?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Fink-Nottle said:


> Hi Macdoc,
> 
> Why are Bose radios a joke? A friend of mine has one and I was seriously impressed by the sound and quality on it... I was thinking of one for my lounge when/if I come into money.
> 
> Sinc... how do you like yours, this AM issue notwithstanding?


F-N, in spite of what others have had to say here, the Bose Wave is an outstanding radio and CD player in every way.

I too had a friend who owned one and I, like you was totally impressed by the sound and quality of the unit. It surpasses anything I have ever heard for the size of it.

While the "790" issue is annoying, I would not trade this radio for any other. I used to have a Grundig which I thought was good, but this blows the doors off any small radio. There is nothing to even remotely compare in a same size box.

The weight alone caught me off guard when I first lifted it. Very heavy, sturdy and well built. It travels with me in the motor home all summer and never misses a beat, except for that silly "790" issue.


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

Part of the problem is it's AM radio you want to listen to; very few radio manufacturers pay much attention to that side of the receiver and instead concentrate on the FM portion. Basically, they treat the AM side as a "throw-in" and you often find lots of scrimping parts-wise there. Almost certainly the same issue with your Ford truck.

AM radio has excellent quality provided the station pays any attention to that aspect (again, many do not, but CBC AM is well known in North America as one who does) but since bean counters run most stations, and since broadcast quality and station reach are directly and inversely proportional, most stations go for the dollars and max out coverage to gain more numbers of listeners for the advertising rate card.

The world of radio waves can be strange if you take a good look at them. Almost anything metal can be an antennae and every antennae can also serve to block reception as perfectly as it improves it. Since the scientific answer involves a lot of highly paid help who live in different dimension than us mere mortals (and get semi-secret jobs to design stuff that ends up in a submarine somewhere), I suggest the second option: playing around with the physical location. However, don't neglect to note objects around the receiver as well; an nearby aluminum window frame will kill signals pretty effectively, for example.

Radio problems can almost always be simplified to two areas. Reception and Interference. Yours sounds like it could be either one. If it's interference, well, that may not be solvable. Sometimes your house (or the whole town) is simply located in a Bad Place For Radio. It's possible it could be coming off the AC line in your house, but I doubt it since the truck radio has a similar issue. You can check that, however. Plug the radio into an AC circuit that you know has no other items on it (compressors in fridges and freezers, computer equipment or anything with a switching power supply, anything with a electric motor on it, fluorescent light fixtures, microwave ovens, etc are all nasty for creating AC line borne noise). Perhaps the plugins in the Garage, for example. If it gets better, then a balun (a simple circuit made with a transformer, usually) will fix it.


Your proximity to other radio sources (airports, other stations between you and your target, etc) or reflections (large buildings nearby or between you and your target) are generally unsolvable interference issues. The rest you can work on fixing.

Having said that, the secret to all radio reception on any band is the antennae. Some radios have provisions to attach external antennas. Does the Bose radio have anything (screw terminals for AM, possibly FM or perhaps a coax connector for FM) the back like that Sinc? If so, that's the route to take.

If not, you can almost certainly hook up one if you go inside and mod the unit, but my guess is you're not willing to hack a perfectly good new radio.

One more thing. How is the reception on that particular station late at night (or very early in the morning, say before 5AM)? Try both a cloudy night and a clear night to check. It could get better or worse, but even if it stays the same, it's a clue as to what the issue is. Because radio travels better at night (no Sun, which does significantly affect things) when two stations in North America are broadcasting in interference, the higher powered one has to either turn down their transmitter power at night, or shape the transmission.

The station has to comply so they hire one of the radio gods mentioned earlier, but it's illustrative to know what they do: they arrange the physical layout of the antennae, and might switch this element on or that one off, so that, for example, they block transmission to the south, which lets the lower power station be heard locally instead of being drowned out or plagued with interference.

That is a very likely scenario that affects your reception with this particular station, by the way. Very few AM stations in the world are not under one or more broadcast power or directional restrictions, some all the time and others at night; there could easily be a dozen stations or more in North America all broadcasting on AM 790. It might just be that yours is affected and you are affected more than most listeners.

You can set up a test bench with a tuner (doesn't matter what band it's working on; shortwave to FM is the same) that is known good as an outstanding unit versus the most inexpensive box you have. The cheap box, with a good antennae, stoutly stomps the super box with no antennae. Comparing the cheap box with a roofmount FM antennae versus the super box with the twinlead that comes in the box, and the cheap box will equal (but not outperform) the super box. We used to use an oscilloscope to check the signal quality and it's an easily repeatable test.

I'm not going to diss the Bose radio, but I will say that if you are shopping for a radio today and want good quality in the receiver section, well, you have your work cut out for you; even the companies that built reputations on the tuner sections of their gear sell comparatively poor one-chip units, and you are just as likely to find the same chip in expensive Home Theatre units as a desk radio. Sad, but since consumers have given up on radio, and since most big market stations sound horrible because the shareholders want it that way, it's the way things are.

I bought mine on eBay (McIntosh MR74, mfd in 1973) but it cost me almost $700. It is, however, an awesome unit that sounds great and has good reception; I can usually find 3 or 4 Sirius transmitters in the neighborhood if I look.

The Gold Standard in AM tuners are made by McKay Dymek (a Canadian company) but they are out of business now. You can sometimes pick them up for a song when radio stations sell the ones they will have at the tower. They used to sell for about $C 1500 (AM only, though). Listening to one with a good station dialed up is a revelation, let me tell you. Most people refuse to believe it's an AM station.

I'm not sure what the Digital Radio comment is about. Canada has had Digital Radio for almost a decade. Consumers don't buy the radios and broadcasters don't broadcast the signals. "The Government" was one of the first in the world to allow it.


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## jlcinc (Dec 13, 2002)

This url that MacDoc supplied has some great info and some great antennas. Sinc did you take a look.

John


http://www.ccrane.com/antennas/am-antennas/twin-coil-ferrite-am-antenna.aspx[/QUOTE]


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

wiki said:


> CFCW can also be received on 91.5 MHz on Shaw Cable FM.


You're welcome.

.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Thanks, but that is not much use to an ExpressVu satellite user.


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

CCrane is OK; they have the gear, even if the prices don't conjure up the phrase "bargain", they're no worse than "The Source" (Radio Shack) and I hear their products are good quality. None of the stuff they sell is particularly new and most of it can be found from multiple vendors but like all radio stuff, the fundamentals never change.

The antenna jlsinc linked to is going to be an improvement of standard designs and should be very good at ignoring interference, the "unique wireless ferrite stick" sounds like a copywriter gone too far, though.

Does anyone else find it amusing that we retired that word 70 years ago and now it's back, well on it's way to being worn out, in copy like that, while trying to sound "so 21st century".

If it is a reception/interference issue (and we don't know that for sure) then that item should improve things quite a bit. A hundred bucks? They're not doing you any favours at that price, but they do have a patent on it, so it's their way or the highway.

But, single coil units are well known and reasonably common. They do the same thing but probably not as effectively. Still, it might be all you need.

This ugly model is similar (except it's a single coil), and yes, it too uses the magic of "wireless" to connect to your radio.

You might be able to find the Terk unit in many stores; Radio Shack (ooops, The Source By Circuit City) probably has a clone for sale as well. They all work more-or-less identically, but the thing with radio is you never know what works best unless you try them.

There are electronic versions but in general the mechanical ones work best; it takes more money to do it with electronics, and even if you do go that route, adding some wire and a hunk of metal improves them even further. Start there.

A very illustrative description of how the twin coil works and how antennas in general operate can be found by reading the patent itself and checking out the patent drawings. Bonus Questions: read some of the patents referenced in the CC Crane patent linked above. I was amused but not quite surprised (see my earlier post) that the first, and oldest one, goes straight to submarines.

The second, filed in 1976 and granted in 1978, is illustrative but for another reason. The US Government has certain rights to intellectual property. Essentially, military or intelligence agencies can file patents with the USTPO that are not granted, but kept in secret. Because they describe the method in question first, when someone shows up with a patent that addresses the secret one, the secret one is revealed, a patent is issued to the US Government, and the second inventor is out of luck.

Looks like that is what happened with #4101899; the fact that it was granted at all is the only proof necessary; the US Army never applies for a patent upon discovery.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

gordguide, your lengthy post got me to thinking and I went back and reread the instructions for the Bose unit.

It points out that the antenna is in fact embedded in the AC power cord which is extra long, and it recommends plugging the radio in as far from the outlet as possible.

I just now went into my office, unplugged the unit, took it across the room and plugged it into another outlet that was not being used for anything else as per your suggestion.

Presto! The interference "buzz" is gone and the reception on 790 CFCW is crystal clear. Thanks for taking the time to suggest such a move. Although I had moved the radio to many different positions in the room before, I never considered changing outlets, other than from top to bottom of that outlet, because that antenna cord is so very long it did not seem necessary.

As for the radio in the Ford Windstar, I now just listen to an FM station.

Incidentally, the broadcast power of CFCW was boosted to 100,000 watts this past summer and is located some 60 miles away in Camrose, Alberta.

Thanks for all the help people. That's what I love about ehMac, someone always knows something that others do not.


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## jlcinc (Dec 13, 2002)

I laughed out load when I read "Presto! The interference "buzz" is gone" sometimes simple solutions are the best.

John


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

" ... gordguide, your lengthy post ..."

Is there any other kind?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

gordguide said:


> " ... gordguide, your lengthy post ..."
> 
> Is there any other kind?


Obviously, note the length of the one I just quoted! 

Thanks again.


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## johnb1 (Aug 6, 2006)

*Am problems*

Maybe there's some kind of ferrite filter your could put in your car, or maybe snap on your home radio's power cord.

just a thought

JB


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

SINC,

Click Here


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

Vexel said:


> SINC,
> 
> Click Here


Link sounds staticy!


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Vexel said:


> SINC,
> 
> Click Here


Cool!


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Vexel said:


> SINC,
> 
> Click Here


I did but it quit, tried again and it works!

Anyway, I solved my problem for listening to CFCW in the house, and also in the Windstar. I now carry a small portable when I am in the van and that solves it there too. Thanks for the link though.


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

SINC,
This is a long shot but:
You said the power cord is also the antenna on the home radio. Try a UPS or power filter! Like you should be using on your Mac. (Shame on you if you aren't). 
Power is often dirty (even more so in rural locations). This dirty power can cause noise in certain frequencies. 
For the vehicle I'd try a power filter there too. In the vehicle do you get a whine that seems to be associated with the gas pedal?


edit: guess I'm too late.


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