# Kingston vs. other RAM



## mojoprofilms (Nov 17, 2002)

Okay...

What's the real skinny on getting Kingston vs. another RAM, especially when places fully guarantee the "other" RAM? Why is Kingston so much more expensive, and is there any _real_ benefit to spending the extra?


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

Name brand and reputation. Look up the threads about ram on ehMac. You CAN do better than Apple for ram upgrades. There's a place selling 1 Gig PC3200 DDR400 for C$124! Can't beat that and it's Samsung OEM. Same stuff Apple uses.


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## BruceM (Apr 8, 2005)

Where did you find this memory deal?


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

" ... Can't beat that and it's Samsung OEM. Same stuff Apple uses. ..."

No, it's not. It is the same _kind_ of memory supplied to Apple. It's not tested to Apple spec.

This is an example of memory tested to Apple criteria, and this is an example the "same stuff" tested to some but not all of Apple criteria (Corsair, Kingston ValuRam, Crucial Technology, Edge Memory, PNY, Simple Tech, Smart Modular, Viking, ShivaRAM [Canadian company] etc) and this is an example of the memory Apple buys from Samsung before testing [the 400 version on the page; orange text] (for all the configurations; I used 2GHz G5 dual as an example). Some of those modules *will be rejected* by Apple, and end up somewhere else.

In the above examples, the "same" memory tested to the highest criteria costs about $450/pair while the partly tested is about half that and the OEM would be a bit less than that. All you are paying for is the testing and rejection of chips that can't quite make the spec; it's entirely possible the partly tested or OEM would pass the more rigorous test, but it hasn't been tested to find out.

Generally the partly tested memory is fine, but in some cases it will fail the boot test. As long as you buy memory with a lifetime guarantee, you would be able to replace it. Typically a different module from the same supplier would be all you need to do; each module is slightly different (like all semiconductors) and it usually doesn't take too many tries to get one that works.

Beware counterfeit memory, it's becoming a problem lately; factories are counterfeiting the markings on the chips (manufacturer included) in the last 12 months or so and it's expected to increase in the future.

Super-low prices (compared to what everyone else wants for the same stuff) might be an indication something is up. This is completely untested memory and could be anything from perfect to terrible. Be sure you can return it if you decide to go that route.

As for "Kingston vs the rest", they built their reputation on fully tested memory that is required by labs, government, finance, military, medical, critical servers, etc computers; the $ 450 example above. A glitch in a memory module could invalidate the results of research or create an expensive error and these buyers prohibit the use of anything else.

The "ValuRam" version by Kingston is the same as everyone else's partly tested memory. They brought it out a few years ago to compete with the others, but it's not the kind they built the reputation on (although it's certainly fine for most of us).


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## mojoprofilms (Nov 17, 2002)

*great answer!*

Thanks for the great answer! I am a RAM guru of knowledge now, and much happier


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## lindmar (Nov 13, 2003)

I use samsung ram from ncix... 512 3200 ddr400 for 65 bucks right now...

Its perfect.. this is the fastest mac i've owned maxed out with 2 gigs...


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## mclenaghan (Sep 27, 2002)

How do you get a new RAM module if you don't remember where you bought a stick of Kingston RAM that seemingly is corrupted? My wife was having trouble with her iMac and the tech that was working on it figured it was the RAM module. We replaced it and things seem to be going well, but we are now stuck with a 512 RAM module of Kingston ram.


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## jicon (Jan 12, 2005)

Actually, I think RAM for a Mac is a lot more easier on the pocketbook than people might first believe.

The reason that Kingston RAM is likely very expensive, is that it is thoroughly tested to run at specific fast timings, can generally be run at overclocked speeds quite easily, and offer a decent warranty.

The PowerMacs ship with some of the slowest timed RAM available, but the reason being, is that the PowerMac line is set to run with the standard PC3200 memory speed of 400Mhz. ( http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2232&p=2 )

MacMini ships with DDR400 timed at CL3, but only require DDR333. The reason it is shipped with the higher clocked RAM, is because it is cheaper to buy than DDR333. 

More than 31 factories around the world will be opening their doors to produce RAM around the world in 2005. RAM today is probably as low in price that I have ever seen.

I'd suggest to look at the timing of the RAM in your Mac before buying an upgrade, and find similar timed RAM out in the world.

As Gordguide mentions though, as with anything expensive that you buy, make sure you can return it if it doesn't work as it should.

(That $124 stick works like a charm for me.)


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

"... How do you get a new RAM module if you don't remember where you bought a stick of Kingston RAM that seemingly is corrupted? ..."

I think you should contact Kingston about your bad stick. Provided it hasn't been tampered with (no-one tried to remove stickers or markings) they should replace it, I would think.

When it comes to semiconductors, keep in mind they are not all equal (any overclocker learns that, usually the hard way). They are made in a large "sheet" and cut into pieces with a die cutter and then the pieces are assembled into a format (adding the plastic, the pins, etc). In general, the ones to the outside of the large sheet have higher error and rejection rates than the ones toward the middle.

Consider the cost of a manufacturing plant, and it's volume of production. Then consider the cost of an additional facility to test the chips as they come off production. Eliminate the testing, and your cost of production is obviously lower.

Most semiconductor firms test by the batch; ie they test perhaps every 10th chip or whatever. This is a rather basic level of testing and essentially necessary; they need to know if there's a problem with the manufacturing so they don't send days or weeks of production out that are all flawed.

Part testing can be very automated. Test can keep up with production. The only expense is the additional facilities involved (although it's not a trivial expense).

Every hundredth (as an example) might be pulled for full testing. This is not so automated; people and their wages are involved. Every aspect of performance will be checked.

The two above stages are essentially critical to the manufacturer's reputation and development of newer technology, improved manufacturing, etc. Most companies do it that way.

When they sell (or send to another internal department) those chips to be assembled into a product like a memory module, it's up to the assembler to do further testing. Some do, some don't, and those that do test on a varying regimen of strictness and control. Remove the distributor's and retailer's profits, and the price directly reflects how much of what was done. (If you're a bargain hunter, distribution and retail is where you should look for cost cutting). There are no secrets and everyone wants to be price competitive, so margins are thin. Chips are the kind of economic model the professors love because it supports the Free-Market theory almost perfectly. Price and quality are directly related.

There is a tier lower than that where they just send them straight to shipping, untested. Essentially, you don't want those chips if you can avoid it. The commodity FM transmitter chips found in iTrips are like that. Griffin copes with a good warranty and simply replaces the inevitable bad ones when you ask. For an FM transmitter, that might be OK; the retail price when made that way is low enough that this works. For memory or a CPU or perhaps a controller chip that will be part of a comparatively expensive motherboard, it's not the stuff you want.

For a long time there were no memory makers that followed that model; RAM was scarce at one time, if you remember. Those days are over; memory can be made by anyone now, and untested RAM is finding it's way into retail. Counterfeiting is now a problem where it was unheard of 2 years ago (Billybob Memory Co might mark it's chips as Samsung, for example). It's been reported some of those mismarked chips have found their way into production (rumour has it Dell ended up shipping some, unaware). Computer makers are very concerned about this recent problem, I assure you. (On a more somber note, counterfeit aircraft parts account for an astounding number of plane crashes. It's not a new problem, it's just a new one for memory).

There is also a higher tier than the partly tested chips. Some companies test more extensively, and again, this involves people and handling. You can be confident that all the automated steps are done as much as possible; so anything beyond an automated test involves people and handling, delay in shipping production, better facilities, etc. This is pretty expensive stuff; much more per chip than the manufacturing is.

The kind of stuff you might find yourself buying as a consumer varies widely. They run the gamut from products like the iTrip with a good warranty to the same kind of gear with no useful warranty; to stuff that is tested by the manufacturer in a 1-in-20 or so way, to fully tested parts that naturally comes with a solid warranty since the goal is zero failure.

Zero failure is a goal, not a reality. The best fab plants and most reputable makers still get failed chips and probably always will, and every once in a while they make a dud semiconductor design that probably can't be fixed, but they are willing to stand behind them.

Normally we don't need the very best stuff, but some parts are more critical than others. RAM is one area where the entire CPU and everything else you paid for depends on it's proper function.

PC manufacturers (and Microsoft) will tell you that about 20% of all mysterious crashes, weird behaviour, (including Blue Screens of Death) etc in service and repair is due to bad RAM that sort-of-kind-of-works but doesn't work properly, all the time. Sure, it will boot the machine, so people assume another cause. Experienced techs suspect RAM first, everything else second.

Get a good warranty and shop carefully, but if your money is too dear to pay $20 more I suggest you're the kind of person who can't afford to lose the $80 you paid or live with mysterious grief. We don't need rocket-grade RAM, but there is a point where it's not such a bargain.

Just buy good memory from a reputable maker with a lifetime warranty that you can actually get honoured. Don't worry about the rest. We can shop online now so saving 5 more bucks is hardly worth it. Everyone loves a bargain, but know when to quit.


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## unmarked road (May 3, 2005)

Whoa, very informative gordguide. I'm in the market for 2GB of memory for my new Dual 2GHz and if I can just get a couple more questions answered I'll never have to look at a thread about RAM again! 

Many of us will be buying or will have bought "untested" memory to upgrade our Macs... the less than top-priced, after-market ram: not tested by either Apple or the memory module manufacturer to Apple's spec, and not every module tested by the manufacturer completely to their own spec -- but sold with a life-time warranty. So is there any way of testing new memory once installed to confirm that it's performing up to our computer's spec and not causing problems not readily apparent? Sounds like "it either works, or it doesn't" isn't a 100% foolproof test that can be relied on.

That would take care of the issue of quality, for me.

As for all the important terms used to describe a particular memory module that have to be matched exactly when shopping for ram: included would be -- DDR 400MHz PC3200 Non-ECC CL3 2.6V 184 pin unbuffered DIMM? Man that's a mouthful, but matching each term to what's already in the computer seems to be important.

Also...

Is there any good reason for installing two 1GB DIMMs instead of four 512MB DIMMS of equal spec memory other than the consideration of how many ram slots will be used (and how this may effect future upgrades)? and...

Does it matter what order you install matched pairs of DIMMs into what slots when the DIMMs are different sizes e.g. (2x256 + 2x512 + 2x512) or (2x256 + 2x1024) or (2x256 + 2x512 + 2x1024)?

Thanks.

As for buying ram online from the states... with memory being so inexpensive these days, how much can you actually save when you take into account delivery charges, customs brokerage and the exchange rate, on a C$200 purchase? Why not just buy in Canada?


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