# Hard drive for MBP



## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Looking at upgrading my already good 1 TB drive in my MBP. I'd like to use the 1 TB drive in my external enclosure. So, with that, I need to find an internal replacement. The hybrid drives are interesting with a significant performance boost. Anyone have any experience with these 500 GB with 4 GB SSD? How about the 1 TB's. I'd probably want to go with a 7200 rpm. Is there some new technology to be aware of with the new drives out today?


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## Bowserm (Jan 11, 2012)

I had one of the hybrids, and honestly didn't notice any difference between that and a normal 7200RPM drive. I would just either stick with a lesser expensive 7200 drive, or go SSD.

I am going to be switching to SSD this summer (I hope) but there are so many of them. I have been reading bad things about them crashing pretty quickly. Which is why I am waiting a bit. I want to make sure that $200 goes to a good drive


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

We installed a 500GB 7200RPM 3 Gb/s Momentus XT solid state hybrid drive into my son's MBP a few years ago to replace a smaller 7200RPM drive, and some things were a bit faster but certainly not mildly mind-blowing faster. Not the same as a local fellows MBP when I replaced his 4500PRM drive with the same Momentus XT solid state hybrid drive which was a real speed improvement.

Maybe the newer 750 6Gb/s units would be even faster if the MBP bus supports that speed.

Some other nice features of those Momentus XT solid state hybrid drives is that they're considered as "enterprise drives" (built better???) and come with a longer 5 year warranty, and they run cool and don't seem to use much more power or lower battery only run time.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Full blown SSD are out for me. I don't want to sacrifice storage space to make it affordable and I can't spend hard earned cash on the larger capacity SSD until they come down in price- way down. If I go with a 7200 rpm, I sure would like to get the one that runs the quietest. Some claim to actually run a tad cooler than the 5400 rpm.
I suppose another option is to remove the optical drive and replace it with an SSD, such as suggested below:
Second Hard Disk into a Macbook Pro Unibody


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Or the OWC kits:
OWC DDAMBS0GB Data Doubler Optical Bay Hard... in stock at OWC
Search Results for data doubler diy at MacSales.com

Or just replace the internal HD with an SSD you can afford and tote the 1TB HD in a small external enclosure. Cheaper!!


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## Chimpur (May 1, 2009)

I have one of the 750gb Momentus XTs in my 15" MBP. It runs quietly and quickly. I'm pretty sure it's faster than the stock drive. Now I'm actually floating in extra 2.5" drives pulled from various old Macs lol!


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## equisol (Jan 12, 2008)

pm-r said:


> Or the OWC kits:
> OWC DDAMBS0GB Data Doubler Optical Bay Hard... in stock at OWC
> Search Results for data doubler diy at MacSales.com
> 
> Or just replace the internal HD with an SSD you can afford and tote the 1TB HD in a small external enclosure. Cheaper!!


+1, the OWC SSD drives are the best IMHO, the hybrids not so much improvement and noisy. I would suggest a small SSD as the primary and a data doubler larger drive for the data replacing the DVD drive, or go external. I bought the Momentus hybrid, and exchanged it for a SSD. The Momentus now is a backup drive attached to the router.


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## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

> I suppose another option is to remove the optical drive and replace it with an SSD, such as suggested below:
> Second Hard Disk into a Macbook Pro Unibody


That is by far your best bang for the buck....I have a 120GB SSD in the harddrive bay and a 320 GB drive in the optical bay for iTunes. Works very well and gives me an easy upgrade route if I need more space for iTunes etc.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

That's probably the way I'll go. Looks like the replacement procedure takes a bit of patience with the delicate stuff. As far as toting around a small external- not for me. I like everything "under the same roof." I like the USB enclosure option you get with Optibay for your optical drive.


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## Bowserm (Jan 11, 2012)

Sorry to hijack...

The OCW device is 70.00. Has anyone bought a 20 dollar jobby from eBay? I don't need the external enclosure as I purchased a macbook air superdrive.

I am wondering if it is worth it paying the extra and getting a "Brand" name enclosure to replace the optical


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## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

I bought mine from eBay and it works perfectly. If you do a google search for Optibay alternative you will find a thread on one of the apple forums about them. Take care to get one that fits as there are minor differences.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Sounds like there are some issues with SSD drives over time. Came across this good explanation:
Maintaining SSD drives in OS X | MacFixIt - CNET Reviews
Not quite sure yet what drive I would use with the Optibay option. I would think that another mechanical drive would bite into battery life a bit.


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## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

Get a modern SSD that uses garbage collection and you shouldn't have much of an issue. It will slow down but it should still be MUCH faster then a normal drive.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Andrew Pratt said:


> Get a modern SSD that uses garbage collection and you shouldn't have much of an issue. It will slow down but it should still be MUCH faster then a normal drive.


What's the difference between "garbage collection" and "TRIM" and I sure get confused when trying to understand when at such sites as TRIM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
that states "TRIM can be counterproductive if enabled on SSDs that use compression (such as Sandforce-based SSDs), ..."

Call me confused... probably just like my question may seem to be 'cause I am.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Anyone having any issues with their 7200 rpm drive in their 13" MBP, such as this poster?

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3000993?start=0&tstart=0


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## Z06jerry (Mar 16, 2005)

csonni said:


> Anyone have any experience with these 500 GB with 4 GB SSD? Is there some new technology to be aware of with the new drives out today?


IMHO the hybrids are a waste of time & money compared to an SSD/HDD combination.

As several have already mentioned SSD's make a substantial improvement.



csonni said:


> Full blown SSD are out for me. I don't want to sacrifice storage space to make it affordable and I can't spend hard earned cash on the larger capacity SSD until they come down in price- way down. If I go with a 7200 rpm, I sure would like to get the one that runs the quietest. Some claim to actually run a tad cooler than the 5400 rpm.
> I suppose another option is to remove the optical drive and replace it with an SSD, such as suggested below:
> Second Hard Disk into a Macbook Pro Unibody





Andrew Pratt said:


> That is by far your best bang for the buck....I have a 120GB SSD in the harddrive bay and a 320 GB drive in the optical bay for iTunes. Works very well and gives me an easy upgrade route if I need more space for iTunes etc.


X 2 



Bowserm said:


> Sorry to hijack...
> 
> The OCW device is 70.00. Has anyone bought a 20 dollar jobby from eBay? I don't need the external enclosure as I purchased a macbook air superdrive.
> 
> I am wondering if it is worth it paying the extra and getting a "Brand" name enclosure to replace the optical


I used this one, it works & fits perfectly in my 2011 MBP. 

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/220810644282...X:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_3526wt_1342

*Csonni*, the SSD needs to be in the Hard Drive Bay in order to boot. FWIW, the optical bay caddy will only accomadate a 9.5mm HD, so if your 1 TB drive is 12.5mm it's not gonna fit in the opti-bay.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

I thought I read that whatever you put in the Optibay is bootable.


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## Z06jerry (Mar 16, 2005)

csonni said:


> I thought I read that whatever you put in the Optibay is bootable.


Not in my 2011 MBP. I wanted to keep the platter drive in the original location for the Sudden motion sensor protection but my SSD wouldn't boot from the optibay, (I know it sounds strange). I mentioned this in another thread and it was confirmed by others.

http://www.ehmac.ca/mac-ipod-help-troubleshooting/99257-best-way-install-lion-new-ssd-2.html


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## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

You can enable TRIM for non apple SSDs if you like using TRIM enabler which is a free download. If the drive has garbage collection built in you may not need to do that though as it should do the maintience work on its own. I would still recommend the SSD plus regular drive...it is the best option for speed and capacity


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## Bowserm (Jan 11, 2012)

So once you install the SSD in the hdd bay, and move the hdd to the optibay, how do you setup your applications and home directory so that the SSD with a fresh install can use the other files from the old drive? Is that possible?


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## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

The easiest way to do the install is clone your old drive to the new SSD using Carbon Copy with the SSD in an external usb case. Once that's done just install both drives in the laptop with the SSD in the hard drive bay and the old drive in the optibay. You can then erase the old drive and then use the tools built into iTunes to move your data to the old drive. If you want iPhoto on the other drive you can just copy the iPhoto app over to the old drive and then when you relaunch iPhoto it will ask where it is...just point it at the new location and you're good to go.


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## Z06jerry (Mar 16, 2005)

Bowserm said:


> So once you install the SSD in the hdd bay, and move the hdd to the optibay, how do you setup your applications and home directory so that the SSD with a fresh install can use the other files from the old drive? Is that possible?


I keep everything except my iTunes media, pictures and videos on the SSD. I moved my iTunes media, pictures & videos folders to the hard drive in the opti-bay.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

This has been a helpful thread for when I do the upgrade. So it's verified that you can't boot from the Opti-Bay?


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Still debating on what to go with in my upgrade. Without any files, my drive right now is loaded with 200 GB. The OWC 240 GB SSD is in my price range but will have it's limits as far as space goes. With a mechanical drive, I know that you should keep no less than 15% clear. What about with SSD's? How full can you pack them without issues? And how does one know if an SSD has this so-called "garbage collection" built in? Will it usually state it? In regards to installing a hard drive in the optibay, I suppose using a hybrid drive would be senseless if I'm just storing files on it. How about 7200 vs 5400 rpm for just storing files? It sounds like 7200 rpm drives have a higher failure rate than the lesser. If this is the case, a 5400 drive make make much more sense if a 7200 rpm drive won't outperform with non-system files.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

I see that OWC has both the Electra and the Extreme, with the Extreme having the edge of performance with a cost. If I purchase my SSD drive from OWC, it might be wise for me to get their optical to SATA drive converter. One other thought is that my present 1 TB drive (I assume it is 12mm) won't fit their 9.5mm specs for suitable drives. This means that I will be required to purchase yet another drive to fit their solution. Does anyone know of MCE optibay specs for what drives will fit? Is it just 9.5mm? I can't seem to find their info on this. One bonus with MCE is the included enclosure for the optical drive. OWC doesn't seem to offer that.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

I know. Lots of posts here. I just viewed OWC's install video of their Data Doubler. They were installing an SSD in theirs. If a drive in the optibay is not bootable, why would OWC be using an SSD drive for just plain storage? I thought an SSD drive is really intended for the operating system.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

I found that OWC does have a Superdrive enclosure for only $29.99 when purchasing with their Data Doubler.
On another note, a comparable SSD drive is the OCZ Vertex 2 and OCZ Vertex 3 which can be purchased in Canada. I do prefer to deal within our borders, since shipping is less complicated (brokerage and duty fees can be a bummer) and also anything returned under warranty may be easier when purchased in Canada. With that said, are these 2 SSD drives basically of the same caliber?


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## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

The Vertex is a great drive but the Agility is essentially the same thing for daily use so don't discount that if it is cheaper. The 2 vs 3 series depends on which chipset your macbook contains...basically if you have a 2011 macbook buy a series 3 drive as they are much faster...if you have a 2010 or older you won't see the speed boost so stay with a series 2 drive.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

With that. I'll save myself a few bucks and consider the Vertex 2 seeing that I only have the mid-2010 13" MBP. Thanks.
Another thought has come into play. Adding another drive to the MBP will require an added dynamic to backup procedure. I'm accustomed to doing a single clone and being assured that all is well with that. Another drive means a second backup/ clone strategy will be required. I may be better of, for at least now, to put out some extra bucks and go with a 480 GB SSD and consider the Optibay solution as future needs demand. I do like the idea of no mechanical drive at all. By the time I do need an additional drive, SSD's should have come down in price by quite a bit.

With that said, can anyone verify of the OCZ SSD drives are TRIM enabled and will the MBP utilize it?


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

csonni said:


> Still debating on what to go with in my upgrade. Without any files, my drive right now is loaded with 200 GB. ... snip ...


Huh??? Is this a typo - "Without any files, my drive right now is loaded with 200 GB."???

My own HD without GBs of photos or music is still only using less than 80GB for EVERYTHING!!

Something's wrong if that's actually what you've got "loaded" and " Without any files".


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

You got me on that. I forgot to include my music which is in my home folder. That's another 100 GB. I guess that makes 100 GB. And I just remembered- I've got to check my Movies folder. That might change the equation yet.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

I don't have the luxury of an SSD drive, at least not now, but if I did, I'd sure be using "Monolingual" on it as I do on my HD and one can often gain about 4GB of drive space, and that's expensive space on a SSD!!

Stripping surplus languages (.lproj folders) and keyboards and surplus code can save a lot of drive space, but just remember to exempt MS Word '08 and later and any recent Adobe apps or suites in Monolinguals preferences otherwise their updates and installers won't run if "trimmed" in any way.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Just got home and checked what's inside my User-Music,Picture and Movie folders. Total of 144 GB. So, that leaves 65-70 GB used up on my OS specific folders. Not as much as I originally thought, eh.

For the size of OCZ SSD I'm looking for (Agility), the only one available at newegg.ca is the Agility 3. Is there any issue with using it in a mid-2010 MBP which can't utilize its potential? In other words, is it backward-compatible?

OWC's Mercury Electra in the same size is $100 more. It's almost a no-brainer. Any other good contenders to OCZ that someone would recommend?


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## Z06jerry (Mar 16, 2005)

csonni said:


> And how does one know if an SSD has this so-called "garbage collection" built in? Will it usually state it? In regards to installing a hard drive in the optibay, I suppose using a hybrid drive would be senseless if I'm just storing files on it. How about 7200 vs 5400 rpm for just storing files? It sounds like 7200 rpm drives have a higher failure rate than the lesser. If this is the case, a 5400 drive make make much more sense if a 7200 rpm drive won't outperform with non-system files.


My understanding is that SSDs using the SandForce 2281 controller have garbage collection and do not require Trim and you should not use third party solutions to enable Trim on Macs because it causes other problems.

7200 rpm = more noise, vibration and power consumption. No need for 7200 rpm in the opti-bay



csonni said:


> I see that OWC has both the Electra and the Extreme, with the Extreme having the edge of performance with a cost. If I purchase my SSD drive from OWC, it might be wise for me to get their optical to SATA drive converter. One other thought is that my present 1 TB drive (I assume it is 12mm) won't fit their 9.5mm specs for suitable drives. This means that I will be required to purchase yet another drive to fit their solution. Does anyone know of MCE optibay specs for what drives will fit? Is it just 9.5mm? I can't seem to find their info on this. One bonus with MCE is the included enclosure for the optical drive. OWC doesn't seem to offer that.


You could use your 1TB hard drive as your TM backup for both of your internal SSD & HDD.



csonni said:


> I know. Lots of posts here. I just viewed OWC's install video of their Data Doubler. They were installing an SSD in theirs. If a drive in the optibay is not bootable, why would OWC be using an SSD drive for just plain storage? I thought an SSD drive is really intended for the operating system.


I was reading a thread about adding a 2nd drive to the 2011 Mini and buried in there was the mention of the Mini also not being bootable from the secondary drive location however there might be a workaround. I'm still looking into it as I'd like to move my SSD to the opti-bay so my HDD gets sudden motion sensor protection. Here's a link to that thread...

Confirmed: Adding a 2nd Hard Drive to Non-Server Minis - MacRumors Forums



csonni said:


> I found that OWC does have a Superdrive enclosure for only $29.99 when purchasing with their Data Doubler.
> On another note, a comparable SSD drive is the OCZ Vertex 2 and OCZ Vertex 3 which can be purchased in Canada. I do prefer to deal within our borders, since shipping is less complicated (brokerage and duty fees can be a bummer) and also anything returned under warranty may be easier when purchased in Canada. With that said, are these 2 SSD drives basically of the same caliber?


The Agility 3 & Vertex 3 are both SATA3 using the SandForce 2281 controller The only difference is that one uses synchronous chips vs the other's asynchronous chips, with the Vertex 3 having faster write speeds under some conditions. ( its the same situation as the 2 OWC SSD's). Even though your MacBook is only SATA2 it is worth considering a SATA 3 drive in case you end up moving it to a newer Mac in the future and the built-in garbage collection of the SATA 3 with SandForce 2281 controllers



Andrew Pratt said:


> The Vertex is a great drive but the Agility is essentially the same thing for daily use so don't discount that if it is cheaper. The 2 vs 3 series depends on which chipset your macbook contains...basically if you have a 2011 macbook buy a series 3 drive as they are much faster...if you have a 2010 or older you won't see the speed boost so stay with a series 2 drive.


SATA 3 is backwards compatible with SATA 2 so for the small price premium you might want to consider sticking with SATA 3 , also the SandForce 2281 series controller is only on SATA 3 SSDs. I've read that enabling TRIM with 3rd party solutions on Macs is not recommended, so IMO you should stick with the 2281 controllerand its built-in garbage collection which does not need TRIM support. Theres are SSD's from OCZ, OWC, Corsair & others that are SATA 3 with the SandForce 2281.



csonni said:


> With that. I'll save myself a few bucks and consider the Vertex 2 seeing that I only have the mid-2010 13" MBP. Thanks.
> Another thought has come into play. Adding another drive to the MBP will require an added dynamic to backup procedure. I'm accustomed to doing a single clone and being assured that all is well with that. Another drive means a second backup/ clone strategy will be required. I may be better of, for at least now, to put out some extra bucks and go with a 480 GB SSD and consider the Optibay solution as future needs demand. I do like the idea of no mechanical drive at all. By the time I do need an additional drive, SSD's should have come down in price by quite a bit.
> 
> Stick to SATA 3. Time Machine can backup both of your drives at the same time.
> ...


AFAIK, the OCZ Agility3 & Vertex3 have built in garbage collection and should not have Trim enabled.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Thanks for the good info. I was thinking on the same lines in regards to buying something that will work better with any future MBP upgrades. I haven't looked at Corsair's offerings much, but their a bit more in cost than OCZ. I think it's looking more like the OCZ Agility 3 480 GB for me. It's a premium price for right now, but it will allow me to forego the purchase of a Superdrive bay replacement (always a chance of busting something in the process). If I end up selling this MBP in the next year, I'd rather not have to mess with swapping the Superdrive back in. More chances of something going wrong. Any last words on the OCZ Agility 3? I did read by some (very few) posters elsewhere that the Vertex 3 is one of the most unstable SSD's for Macs. That might be their experience.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Too much studying before a purchase can be a pain. Here's one comment by bit-tech.net:
"Sadly, the OCZ Agility 3 240GB doesn’t deliver on its claim of offering similar performance to a Vertex 3 for much less cash. While it’s cheaper than the Vertex 3, its performance presents serious pitfalls, which are brought about by the use of asynchronous, rather than synchronous NAND. This was evident in a number of areas, and not just a select few. Most damning is the fact that the Crucial M4 256GB, which is available for £263 now, was considerably faster in key tests; even a two-year-old first-generation Vertex 120GB proved faster in AS-SSD’s sequential read test. This isn’t what you want to hear when you’re about to splash out over £320 on a new SSD. The M4 256GB has a higher formatted capacity and is a much better all-rounder, while the Vertex 3 240GB remains the performance champ, leaving the Agility 3 240GB with little to recommend it."

So, my search continues. I'm not quite ready and willing to hand over such an amount of cash until I'm quite convinced. The Vertex 3 in the 480 GB model is over the top for me. Maybe Corsair?


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## Z06jerry (Mar 16, 2005)

csonni said:


> Thanks for the good info. I was thinking on the same lines in regards to buying something that will work better with any future MBP upgrades. I haven't looked at Corsair's offerings much, but their a bit more in cost than OCZ. I think it's looking more like the OCZ Agility 3 480 GB for me. It's a premium price for right now, but it will allow me to forego the purchase of a Superdrive bay replacement (always a chance of busting something in the process). If I end up selling this MBP in the next year, I'd rather not have to mess with swapping the Superdrive back in. More chances of something going wrong. Any last words on the OCZ Agility 3? I did read by some (very few) posters elsewhere that the Vertex 3 is one of the most unstable SSD's for Macs. That might be their experience.


You'll find lots of horror stories about the early Corsair Force 3's too. It sounds like the SandForce 2281 controller was released prematurely and everybody using it had issues until their firmware got updated. 

I'm using an Agility 3 with 2.13 firmware and have not had any problems (the latest OCZ firmware is 2.15). The advantage of OWC is that their firmware upgrades are MAC friendly whereas OCZ does not have firmware upgrade tools for Mac, so you have to use a PC if future firmware upgrades are needed. 

If I were to buy one today I would probably get a Vertex 3 or a Corsair Force 3GT which both have the sandForce 2281 & the faster synchronous chips.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

I've found a $50 rebate on the Vertex 3. Not bad. Is there any way of telling what firmware a drive has before purchase by it's model number?


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

As of April, 2009, OCZ was offering both Mac and PC versions of their SSD drives. I assume that's changed.
Other than the ease of flashing the firmware from my Mac with the OWC drives, OCZ is much cheaper (especially with a $50 rebate) and is found in Canada. Shipping from OWC is $35 UPS. That pushes their Mercury Extreme toward the $1200 mark. Not ready for that. I wonder when there'll be another drop in those prices.


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## hbp (Apr 18, 2007)

You should get this: Mushkin Chronos Deluxe 240GB 2.5IN SATA3 SandForce SF-2281 SSD Solid State Disk Flash Drive - DirectCanada

I'm gonna load up this + 16GB ram in my MBP.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

I'm determined to go with a 480 GB. I just found that the Crucial M4 512 GB can be had for $659. That's quite a bit less than the OCZ along with another 32 GB. I'll have to check out the differences.

Update: So far, the Crucial has no TRIM support and is rated at a full 10 watts. Not very impressive.


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## hbp (Apr 18, 2007)

csonni said:


> I'm determined to go with a 480 GB. I just found that the Crucial M4 512 GB can be had for $659. That's quite a bit less than the OCZ along with another 32 GB. I'll have to check out the differences.
> 
> Update: So far, the Crucial has no TRIM support and is rated at a full 10 watts. Not very impressive.


That's insane! No point using a $750 (after tax) SSD to store music/movies. Just throw that stuff in a spinning disk in the optibay.

The Mushkin that I quoted you is a highly rated drive.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

I'm not going with the optibay at this point. I just want one drive and decide what to do when I need more space, of which I might not need if I'm careful.
I think I got my eyes set on the Vertex 3. I found the cheapest one in Canada along with a $50 rebate. The only thing the sales rep can't tell me is the firmware version. I do have a PC. I suppose I could do the flashing on that, but that requires wiping the drive. I guess I can just hope for the 2.15 firmware.


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## Z06jerry (Mar 16, 2005)

csonni said:


> I'm determined to go with a 480 GB. I just found that the Crucial M4 512 GB can be had for $659. That's quite a bit less than the OCZ along with another 32 GB. I'll have to check out the differences.
> 
> Update: So far, the Crucial has no TRIM support and is rated at a full 10 watts. Not very impressive.



and it uses Marvell controller so I don't think it has garbage collection either. IMO your better off with a SandForce 2281 controller ATM, just my .02


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## Z06jerry (Mar 16, 2005)

csonni said:


> I'm not going with the optibay at this point. I just want one drive and decide what to do when I need more space, of which I might not need if I'm careful.
> I think I got my eyes set on the Vertex 3. I found the cheapest one in Canada along with a $50 rebate. The only thing the sales rep can't tell me is the firmware version. I do have a PC.  I suppose I could do the flashing on that, but that requires wiping the drive. I guess I can just hope for the 2.15 firmware.


Although I haven'y done it yet I don't think updating the firmware requires wiping the drive.


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## hbp (Apr 18, 2007)

csonni said:


> I'm not going with the optibay at this point. I just want one drive and decide what to do when I need more space, of which I might not need if I'm careful.
> I think I got my eyes set on the Vertex 3. I found the cheapest one in Canada along with a $50 rebate. The only thing the sales rep can't tell me is the firmware version. I do have a PC. I suppose I could do the flashing on that, but that requires wiping the drive. I guess I can just hope for the 2.15 firmware.


Might as well just get a 7200 rpm drive for the 13" SATA II MBP then.

Wait till you get a SATA III ready MBP before making the plunge, SSD prices will be cheaper then as well.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

SO what you're saying is the SSD isn't worth it unless you can utilize 6G? There seems to be lots of users out there that say they'd never go back to a regular drive after the experience with SSD.


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## hbp (Apr 18, 2007)

I'm saying, given that you got your MBP for $750 and you only want to deal with one drive, buying a 512GB SSD for another $750 so you can store movies/music/documents is poor value.

It's your money though.

The SSD will blow the 7200rpm HDD out of the water. And it's also futureproof. You might kick yourself when prices drop in the near future.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

What I'm saying is that I want to go with SSD and, since I only want one drive for the time being, that's the only option. With a new line of MBP in the near future, the SSD I buy now will be for my upgrade. I guess the money I'm saving by not buying the optibay I can put toward a larger SSD. As far as mechanical drives go, I've had to replace a number of them in the last 1.5 years due to failure. TIme to experiment with the newer SSD technology. Less power consumption, less heat. Hard to beat that, especially since heat is the number one cause of drive failure (not to mention better overall performance).


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

csonni said:


> SO what you're saying is the SSD isn't worth it unless you can utilize 6G? There seems to be lots of users out there that say they'd never go back to a regular drive after the experience with SSD.


Yes. Save some dollars and get a 240 (or a 120) get an OWC, and get the opti bay.

I suggest not blowing your brains out on a huge less than SSD for as was mentioned, storage of music files. That's a waste.

The dvd drive goes in an external for anytime you need it.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Well, this is my logic. A mechanical drive can go in the optibay adapter but then that drive will not be able to utilize the SMS (Sudden Motion Sensor). If SSD is best used for booting, then it's got to go in the original bay for that (apparently). So, the only other option then, is to get (2) 250 GB SSDs which, with the optibay adapter, will cost more than the (1) 480 GB SSD I'm considering. Make sense?


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## Z06jerry (Mar 16, 2005)

csonni said:


> With a new line of MBP in the near future, the SSD I buy now will be for my upgrade.


better hope Apple doesn't change the 2.5" HD form factor in future MBP's. With their obsession for thin-ness they could solder the chips right onto the motherboard in the future.



groovetube said:


> Yes. Save some dollars and get a 240 (or a 120) get an OWC, and get the opti bay.
> 
> I suggest not blowing your brains out on a huge less than SSD for as was mentioned, storage of music files. That's a waste.
> 
> The dvd drive goes in an external for anytime you need it.


+1, my Agility 3 & eBay opti-bay caddy only cost $175, the best upgrade I've ever done by far.


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## Z06jerry (Mar 16, 2005)

csonni said:


> Well, this is my logic. A mechanical drive can go in the optibay adapter but then that drive will not be able to utilize the SMS (Sudden Motion Sensor). If SSD is best used for booting, then it's got to go in the original bay for that (apparently). So, the only other option then, is to get (2) 250 GB SSDs which, with the optibay adapter, will cost more than the (1) 480 GB SSD I'm considering. Make sense?


uh, no, but hey its your wallet! , installing the SSD in the HD bay & losing the sudden motion sensor on the platter drive in the optibay is no big deal. You do have a backup right?

BTW, Time Machine will backup both of your drives at the same time. FWIW you can get a 120 gb SandForce 2281 SATA 3 6gbs SSD and an eBay opti-bay caddy for under $200


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Hmmm... reminds me of the old phrase:
"A foole and his monie be soone at debate,
which after with sorrow repents him too late."

or in more modern English:
"A fool and his money are soon parted".

Especially considering that any older and seldom watched movies, music. photos etc. could still be readily available, still fast access and happy to be on a 7200RPM HD that could also be put to sleep for battery energy saving etc.


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## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

I have to agree....if backups are your only concern just get the Vertex 3 SSD that fits your main needs and toss that platter drive in the optical bay. Don't spend $$$$ on a single monster drive as the $$/benefit ratio is quite poor.

Time Machine doesn't care how many drives you have.

As for the Vertex vs Agility...yes in bench tests you'll see some differences but unlikely in most real world situations. If the price isn't much different by all means get the Vertex but I have zero qualms about buying my Agility.

Updating firmware doesn't destroy data...but as always backup first  You can safely assume any drive you buy won't have 2.15 on it which is the most current and what you should be running.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

As far as space, apart from my movies, music and pictures which reside in their respective folders in my Home Folder, I have 130 GB being taken up by Apps and OS. How would a 120 GB drive do with that? Unless I'm missing something, I'd need something greater than that.

Andrew- you say I can safely assume any drive I buy "won't" have 2.15 on it. You must mean "will"?


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

130 for apps and OS?

That's insane.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Oops. My bad. 70 GB. I forgot to subtract my Files folder. That changes things- at least in half.


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

The sudden motion sensor is only in effect if the machine is on and running and is dropped. When the machine is off or the drive is sleeping, the heads are parked anyway. Or if you must have SMS on the optibay drive you could install a Seagate Momentus ****ASG model which has onboard SMS.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

groovetube beat me to comment the same thing, and even 70GB seems excessive.

ALL my Mac SL OS X system, applications, Utilities etc. etc. and ALL my photos, music, email etc. etc only uses less than 80GB on my boot drive.

Something's not calculating properly, at least not for my old brain. Or you have some HUGE files somewhere.

PS: Make sure your backup software hasn't been backing up to your boot drive which can happen.

To check. in the Finder, Go(menu) -> Go to folder, enter '/Volumes' (no quotes) and you should only see any normally mounted volumes shown.

If you see more, you have a problem!!!


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Here it is. I can get the Agility 3 480 GB for $600 after the rebate. In the future, when prices come down, I could always get a smaller SSD for my main bay and put the Agility 3 in an optibay. So, for now, I'm spending $600.
The other option recommended to me is to go with the lesser Agility 3 120 GB for $150 and the optibay option for roughly $100. If my original 1 TB drive is 12mm, that means I need to purchase another HDD for the adapter which will cost another $80 to $100. In addition, an enclosure for my Superdrive will run $30. Total- $350 (and I'm not to thrilled with the 120 GB, so, another $150 for the 240 GB- Total- $500. I don't get the logic. I may be saving some bucks, but, for now, since I'm not ready to go with the optibay (no real big deal), why not, for just $100 more, go with the "huge" 480 GB and then use it for the optibay someday if I decide and put a smaller SSD in the main bay? We're talking $100 extra for an immediate solution. Not that bad from my perspective. Besides, if SSD's are what many say, why would I want an HDD in the optibay when I could have another SSD in there?


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

because it's a waste on things like music files etc.

I don't know about vertex's but the OWC is flawless.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

A waste? Maybe in that sense. But storage is storage. If it's not a negative hit performance wise or it's going to cause issues on my System, what't the big deal. It's simply convenient and what I need for right now. At $100 price tag, mind you. Is there any reason to think that an HDD is better for simple storage than an SSD?


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

pm-r said:


> groovetube beat me to comment the same thing, and even 70GB seems excessive.
> 
> ALL my Mac SL OS X system, applications, Utilities etc. etc. and ALL my photos, music, email etc. etc only uses less than 80GB on my boot drive.
> 
> Something's not calculating properly, at least not for my old brain. Or you have some HUGE files somewhere.!


It's not excessive at all. My System/Library/Applications folders combined alone are 75.26 GB in size, while my user folder is 223.52 GB in size.


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## hbp (Apr 18, 2007)

csonni said:


> Here it is. I can get the Agility 3 480 GB for $600 after the rebate. In the future, when prices come down, I could always get a smaller SSD for my main bay and put the Agility 3 in an optibay. So, for now, I'm spending $600.
> The other option recommended to me is to go with the lesser Agility 3 120 GB for $150 and the optibay option for roughly $100. If my original 1 TB drive is 12mm, that means I need to purchase another HDD for the adapter which will cost another $80 to $100. In addition, an enclosure for my Superdrive will run $30. Total- $350 (and I'm not to thrilled with the 120 GB, so, another $150 for the 240 GB- Total- $500. I don't get the logic. I may be saving some bucks, but, for now, since I'm not ready to go with the optibay (no real big deal), why not, for just $100 more, go with the "huge" 480 GB and then use it for the optibay someday if I decide and put a smaller SSD in the main bay? We're talking $100 extra for an immediate solution. Not that bad from my perspective. Besides, if SSD's are what many say, why would I want an HDD in the optibay when I could have another SSD in there?


An optibay-like unit itself can be had for $20 off eBay. I believe the 12.5mm 1TB drives can fit in the optibay, so no need to buy another drive.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Okay, that roughly saves me another $100. But there still is the issue of a hit on battery life with the HDD in the optibay. I've watched the vids of installing the optibay and, while it doesn't look that complicated, there is the potential of busting a ribbon cable.... then I'd be really kicking myself. Does it sound like I'm trying to convince myself?

I just added up my Apps folder, both Library folders and my System folder which total just over 40 GB. Not sure where the other 30 GB I estimated is.


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## hbp (Apr 18, 2007)

Yeah, you're trying to convince yourself. Battery life isn't affected much from what I hear.

That 240GB Mushkin Chronos Deluxe I mentioned earlier is a damn steal.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

I guess I must not have been stating something right, but I found this post elsewhere:
"...the goal of using an SSD is to minimize writes to it. In other words, you want to write infrequently to it to maximize it's useful life. Reads from it are no problem (and you will read from it much more quickly than an HDD)."

So, from what I understand is that storing user files (images, documents, etc.) can possibly lessen the life of the SSD. Thus, only use the drive for the System and Apps. If that's the case, then I can see the reason for having an HDD which will take more writes than an SSD would.

And in the same thread, I get this:
"The advantage of having a HDD in addition to the SSD is for storing huge photo, music, video, data etc. libraries which don't benefit from the speed of the SSD and can thus avoid the high $$$ cost of SSD space to store them." This is what you guys are suggesting and I understand this point. 

"You will not harm your computer by having those items on your SSD if they fit, and of course that is the preferred method if your SSD is large enough (then you really don't need the HDD at all and can probably remove it and the heat it produces)." And this is what I am saying. if finances allow, why not scrap the additional HDD and just go with one SSD? Or, it copying, deleting and writing to files on an SSD really detrimental to its life?

Here's another comment:
"The main reason SSDs are used primarily as boot drives is because their cost per gigabyte of storage is much higher than a mechanical HDD. As manufacturing costs for SSDs fall, the cost per gigabyte will fall and you will start to see many more computers using only SSDs. There are currently shipping computers that use only an SSD, the MacBook Air is one."

If it's fine with the MacBook Air, it must be ok with the MBP.


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## hbp (Apr 18, 2007)

I don't think anyone is saying it's wrong to use an SSD for everything. We're saying it's a waste (at current prices).

Feel free to spend/waste as you feel though! That's the great thing about being your own person, you can decide where to put your disposable income.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Got the OCZ Agility 3 coming. The Vertex 3 was just too much for that extra little bit of performance which would never be seen on normal tasks.
Not sure if it will come with the newest firmware. Before the latest (2.15) PC users had issues with the BSOD. Not sure how Mac users are affected by the bug in the earlier firmware. I suppose I should connect the drive up to my PC to use the utility before formatting and installing in my Mac.

I've read that Spotlight Indexing should be disabled with SSDs. would that be correct?


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## Z06jerry (Mar 16, 2005)

hbp said:


> An optibay-like unit itself can be had for $20 off eBay. I believe the 12.5mm 1TB drives can fit in the optibay, so no need to buy another drive.


Other open top designs _might_ accept 12.5 mm drives but this eBay caddy is limited to a 9.5 mm drive.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/220810644282?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649





csonni said:


> Okay, that roughly saves me another $100. But there still is the issue of a hit on battery life with the HDD in the optibay.





hbp said:


> Yeah, you're trying to convince yourself. Battery life isn't affected much from what I hear.
> 
> That 240GB Mushkin Chronos Deluxe I mentioned earlier is a damn steal.


There is definitely a hit to battery life when both drives are active. If I'm not using my optibay HDD while on battery I will eject it to preserve battery life and reduce noise. The SSD is absolutely silent. I haven't found an automatic way to sleep the 2nd hard drive when I'm not using it.



hbp said:


> I don't think anyone is saying it's wrong to use an SSD for everything. We're saying it's a waste (at current prices).
> 
> Feel free to spend/waste as you feel though! That's the great thing about being your own person, you can decide where to put your disposable income.


If noise, battery consumption, ease of use & installation, preservation of optical drive are important to the OP then its not a waste (to him) to purchase a larger SSD. How would you feel if people said you were wasting your $$ by choosing a 240GB SSD because a 120GB SSD is OK for them? To each his own.



csonni said:


> Got the OCZ Agility 3 coming. The Vertex 3 was just too much for that extra little bit of performance which would never be seen on normal tasks.
> Not sure if it will come with the newest firmware. Before the latest (2.15) PC users had issues with the BSOD. Not sure how Mac users are affected by the bug in the earlier firmware. I suppose I should connect the drive up to my PC to use the utility before formatting and installing in my Mac.
> 
> I've read that Spotlight Indexing should be disabled with SSDs. would that be correct?


I haven't disabled spotlight, I use it all the time to find stuff. Spotlight hasn't caused any problems for me that I know of.

One issue I know of with the Agility 3 is that since it has no temp sensor built in, the controller reports a default 128 degrees ( which is incorrect because there is no heat generated by the SSD). There is an update that you can install to make it report a lower arbitrary 30something degrees. Since you are going to connect it to your PC anyway, you might want to look into that on the OCZ Forum

Vertex3, Agility3, Solid3 and Synapse caching drive support and discussion forum.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Scratch that OCZ. I got the creaps when I read of the issues Mac users were having. I know. Only the troubles are found on these forums. I cancelled my order and am going to go with the OWC Mercury Electra. I like the Mac support and don't want to be doing firmware dances as one puts it. Thanks for all the input.

Waiting to hear back from CanadaRam on the OWC. It appears that OCZs are more recommended than the OWC due to over-the-border warranties with OWC.


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## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

You would have been fine with the Agility but the OWC's are great drives as well and are easier to do firmware updates on. What size did you end up with?


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Got the 480GB. Quite a bit more than the OCZ but, as you said, easier to do firmware updates.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Do I dare mention John Ruskin's quote and some others like it??

“There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey.” ~ John Ruskin quote

PS: I'm envious!! But my 1TB 7200RPM seems pretty fast for me in my 24" iMac. But anything that even works at my age would appear to be fast.


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## jamesB (Jan 28, 2007)

Last year I had an OWC SSD fail, nothing could mount or read it.
The service from OWC was fast and painless.
They emailed me the RMS and shipping info and I had a new drive in less then a day after they received my failed drive. (16 hours from them shipping to me receiving).
The longest delay was me returning the drive by FedEx ground, at their expense.
I have 3 OWC drives in daily service also 1 Intel from 2009, all working perfectly, Oh, and never a firmware update yet.
I use an OWC SSD in a G4 Cube via a Sata-Pata converter, makes the Cube feel much quicker even if the bus speed is limiting its' performance, but is a big help in reducing heat which the passively cooled Cubes do not like.


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## Glipt (Aug 7, 2003)

Don't forget to consider iOS device backups. I had mine grow to 15G within a few months. There is a way to divert the backup folder to an external drive if you have one in your optibay. Keeping a few iPhones and iPads synched could fill up space very fast on a small SSD. Mail tends to fill up quickly too.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

A firmware update was just announced by OWC for their Mercury SSD line.

OWC Announces Firmware Update For Industry-Leading Mercury Solid State Drive (SSD) Line | Other World Computing Blog


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

As I've decided to order an optibay tray to install my existing WD 2.5 inch 1 TB drive where my Superdrive presently resides. I'm not sure how to tell what the physical size is of this WD drive. I think those trays are made to accept 9.5mm drives, not 12mm. Can anyone tell me how to tell what the size is without physically taking it out? The model # is WDC WD10TPVT-00HT5T0. Not sure if that helps. I'm assuming it a WD since it seems to state that in the model number.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Just read up on one Mac user who installed an SSD in his main bay and his original HD in the optibay. He had problems with the HD spinning up and down. When trying to access a file, the hard drive would have to spin up first. Is there an issue to where you can't control whether or not the drive in the optibay spins down? In this case, he installed another SSD drive and had no more problems. 

I wouldn't want to deal with that either and would rather install 2 SSDs.


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## Z06jerry (Mar 16, 2005)

csonni said:


> I'm not sure how to tell what the physical size is of this WD drive. I think those trays are made to accept 9.5mm drives, not 12mm. Can anyone tell me how to tell what the size is without physically taking it out? The model # is WDC WD10TPVT-00HT5T0. Not sure if that helps. I'm assuming it a WD since it seems to state that in the model number.


its 12.5mm, and won't fit in the eBay caddy (as per my post #71). My OCZ doesn't boot from the optibay, hopefully your OWC will.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

I guess that leaves me with one of my Hitachi Travelstar 7200 rpm 500 GB drives. I really didn't want to use a 7200 drive as it will probably create more noise and heat and hit somewhat on battery life. I believe my WD TB drive is only 5400 rpm. I suppose I could buy another smaller SSD for my boot drive and use the 480 for data in the optibay. Hey, it's got a 3 year warranty on it, but it sure makes for expensive storage.

Might be the way to go after reading of quite a few others can't get their HDDs in their optibays to spin down. Can't sleep the MBP due to this.


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## hbp (Apr 18, 2007)

Z06jerry said:


> its 12.5mm, and won't fit in the eBay caddy (as per my post #71). My OCZ doesn't boot from the optibay, hopefully your OWC will.


I've read of people running 12.5mm in their unibody mbp optibays.


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## hbp (Apr 18, 2007)

Z06jerry said:


> its 12.5mm, and won't fit in the eBay caddy (as per my post #71). My OCZ doesn't boot from the optibay, hopefully your OWC will.


Anyone know why the SSD's have trouble booting from the optibay?


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Here's an excellent post on the OWC SSD:
OWC Mercury Extreme Pro RE SSD Review - Real World Testing


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## Z06jerry (Mar 16, 2005)

csonni said:


> Here's an excellent post on the OWC SSD:
> OWC Mercury Extreme Pro RE SSD Review - Real World Testing


The OWC SSD in that review is using a SandForce 1200 controller, and is only Sata2 speed (3gbs).

The OCZ & Mushkin SSD's that have been recommended to you in this thread are much faster Sata3 drives (6gbs) using the SandForce 2281 controller.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

hbp said:


> I've read of people running 12.5mm in their unibody mbp optibays.


I have too. Apparently it does sit a little above, a tight fit, but it fits nonethe less. Just be careful in assembling. I've read of many succeses.

I have the WD black 750 in the opti so it wasn't an issue, but I recall there may have been a wee bit of clearance for a 12.5 if you're careful.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Well I guess, then, that the newer gen ones are even better with the newer controllers.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

HBP- if you're there- is that Mushkin Chronos Deluxe the same thing as the Mushkin Enhanced Chronos? Is there any difference between the Deluxe and Enhanced Deluxe?


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## hbp (Apr 18, 2007)

csonni said:


> HBP- if you're there- is that Mushkin Chronos Deluxe the same thing as the Mushkin Enhanced Chronos? Is there any difference between the Deluxe and Enhanced Deluxe?


A very big difference between the two.

The deluxe is on par with the Vertex 3 Max IOPS, OWC Mercury Extreme Pro (240GB), and the Patriot Wildfire because it uses synchronous/toshiba toggle flash.

Whereas the enhanced/regular uses asynchronous flash and can be compared with the lower end SSD's using the SF-2281 controller (Agility 3, Force 3)...

The deluxe is a great deal that can't be matched in terms of speed/price. 

Check this review: Mushkin Chronos Deluxe 120GB Solid State Drive Review :: TweakTown USA Edition


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## BillyPrefect (Jun 5, 2011)

Z06jerry said:


> its 12.5mm, and won't fit in the eBay caddy (as per my post #71). My OCZ doesn't boot from the optibay, hopefully your OWC will.


Dreaming about owning a real MBP someday, I've read up on this... MBP's in general don't like to boot from a drive in the optical bay as the system sees that as a secondary drive not a primary drive. A person would want the SSD in the primary drive bay for operating system and profile store and the details files and a larger storage drive in the opti bay for all the fun stuff. ALSO - I read somewhere that if you were going to be editing large video files or music files you'd be better off transfering the file to the SSD while editing and then moving it back when done.


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## hbp (Apr 18, 2007)

Hopefully this new EFI firmware update that just came out will let me keep the SSD boot drive in the optibay.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

You guys are going to shoot me, but I just ordered the Mushkin Chronos Deluxe 240GB from DirectCanada. Now I need to decide what one (Mushkin or OWC) to use for my Drive Bay and what one to use for my Optibay. Either way, I can put my main files folder onto the Optibay SSD. I am thinking of using the OWC Electra for the main drive since it was so much more costlier, but it's not synchronous as the Mushkin is. Maybe the Mushkin would be more ideal.


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## hbp (Apr 18, 2007)

csonni said:


> You guys are going to shoot me, but I just ordered the Mushkin Chronos Deluxe 240GB from DirectCanada. Now I need to decide what one (Mushkin or OWC) to use for my Drive Bay and what one to use for my Optibay. Either way, I can put my main files folder onto the Optibay SSD. I am thinking of using the OWC Electra for the main drive since it was so much more costlier, but it's not synchronous as the Mushkin is. Maybe the Mushkin would be more ideal.


:lmao: wow! That's hilarious csonni! You spent more on SSD's than your machine is worth 

Perhaps you should consider selling/returning the OWC and using an HDD in it's place. Just food for thought.

Anyway, you should make the Mushkin your boot drive since it will be faster.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Well, I look at the drives as an investment when I upgrade to a newer gen that can utilize 6G, probably the 2011 models with Thunderbolt.
Never thought of this, but I hope there's not a problem putting a SATA III SD in the Optibay, which only does 3G.


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## hbp (Apr 18, 2007)

csonni said:


> Well, I look at the drives as an investment when I upgrade to a newer gen that can utilize 6G, probably the 2011 models with Thunderbolt.
> Never thought of this, but I hope there's not a problem putting a SATA III SD in the Optibay, which only does 3G.


It's no problem, it just won't utilize the full speed. 

But I think your laptop is fully SATA II anyway, so both SATA ports will be limited to 3G


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

So then, is the synchronous transfer mode limited in its capability with 3G systems such as mine, even though it's a 6G SSD?


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

csonni said:


> So then, is the synchronous transfer mode limited in its capability with 3G systems such as mine, even though it's a 6G SSD?


Yes.


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## hbp (Apr 18, 2007)

But I believe it will still be faster than the asynchronous, even in a 3G Sata II port.


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## Z06jerry (Mar 16, 2005)

hbp said:


> Hopefully this new EFI firmware update that just came out will let me keep the SSD boot drive in the optibay.


*hbp*, Please let us know if your MBP will boot from the opti-bay after you apply this update.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

I keep seeing on various forums that there are quite a few who have had no problems installing their SSD in their optibay as their boot drive. They do this to keep SMS (Sudden Motion Sensor) working for their HDD, as SMS is not an option for the optical drive.


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## hbp (Apr 18, 2007)

Z06jerry said:


> *hbp*, Please let us know if your MBP will boot from the opti-bay after you apply this update.


Will do, unfortunately I won't have the chance to put the Optibay in until my March break... exams are coming 

Halfway down the page this might be relevant: Does currently shipping 15" Macbook Pro support SATA III @ 6Gb/s in Optibay? - Page 2 - MacRumors Forums


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## Z06jerry (Mar 16, 2005)

csonni said:


> I keep seeing on various forums that there are quite a few who have had no problems installing their SSD in their optibay as their boot drive. They do this to keep SMS (Sudden Motion Sensor) working for their HDD, as SMS is not an option for the optical drive.


Interestingly (according to Larry @ OWC) there is also an issue with 2011 15" & 17" MBP's & SATA 3 to the optical bay. 

In OWC's instructional videos they show their SSD's being installed in their Data Doublers in MBP optical bays in spite of them knowing there could be some "usability" issues. (with 2011 MBP's) 

My guess is that a pre 2011 MBP's with SATA 2 might be OK with an SSD boot drive in the opti-bay whereas a 2011 with SATA 3 might not. YMMV. My 2011 13" MBP definitely won't boot from my SSD in the optical bay.

_"This latest EFI update does nothing to improve the usability of a 6Gb/s SATA 3.0 link connection in the 15/17" 2011 optical bays. If your system profiler reports 6Gb/s link in that bay and you plan to add a drive there - you must select a SATA 2.0 3Gb/s drive as the factory hardware and/or other particulars was not qualified to support 6Gb/s and it is NOT RELIABLE there with."_


Apple Releases EFI Firmware Updates for Mac Mini, iMac, MacBook Air and Pro - MacRumors.com


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## johnnydee (Feb 10, 2004)

I have replaced the Optical drive in my iMac and boot from the SSD replacement without issue!
Even worst care scenario you could press the option key and select which drive to boot from!
I don't understand all the concern?


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## Z06jerry (Mar 16, 2005)

johnnydee said:


> I have replaced the Optical drive in my iMac and boot from the SSD replacement without issue!


This thread is (mostly) about MBP's. 



johnnydee said:


> Even worst care scenario you could press the option key and select which drive to boot from!
> I don't understand all the concern?


That doesn't work on certain MBP's and neither does choosing the startup drive in system prefs if the boot drive is located in the optical bay. 

There appears to be usability issues with the 6Gb/s SATA 3.0 link connection in the 2011 MBP optical bays.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

I'm expecting my SSDs (OWC Electra 480GB and Mushkin Chronos Deluxe 240GB) any day now. I'm still undecided as to where to put each each drive. I was thinking of the OWC in the regular bay and the Mushkin in the Optibay. I'm not sure yet how to organize my data (iTunes Library, etc). Any suggestions? Someone suggested the Mushkin for the OS as it's faster than the OWC.

Got both SSDs and the optical drive adapter today. We'll see if I can get to it this weekend. I might want to see what's involved in hooking up the Mushkin to my PC to check for a firmware update.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Just checked the label on the Mushkin and it says "Firmware Rev; MP1_3.3.2
I see that there's a firmware of that version that was released this past August so I'm assuming that this SSD has the newest update on it.


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## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

csonni said:


> Just checked the label on the Mushkin and it says "Firmware Rev; MP1_3.3.2
> I see that there's a firmware of that version that was released this past August so I'm assuming that this SSD has the newest update on it.


I wouldn't assume anything given it is easier to do the firmware upgrade prior to installing it in your MBP.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

csonni said:


> I'm expecting my SSDs (OWC Electra 480GB and Mushkin Chronos Deluxe 240GB) any day now. I'm still undecided as to where to put each each drive. I was thinking of the OWC in the regular bay and the Mushkin in the Optibay. I'm not sure yet how to organize my data (iTunes Library, etc). Any suggestions? Someone suggested the Mushkin for the OS as it's faster than the OWC.
> 
> Got both SSDs and the optical drive adapter today. We'll see if I can get to it this weekend. I might want to see what's involved in hooking up the Mushkin to my PC to check for a firmware update.



Call me confused and without re-reading all 100+ posts, but in your post #4 you said "_Full blown SSD are out for me. I don't want to sacrifice storage space to make it affordable and I can't spend hard earned cash on the larger capacity SSD until they come down in price- way down._"

Do I now understand that you're about to install _*TWO*_ SSDs in your MBP, and neither one exactly small or cheap??

That's quite a change if that's the case.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

You're right. That sounds real fickle. Yes, I did change my thinking on that. Probably because of the cheap Mushkin (which is still available at Canada Direct, by the way).
It looks like the Mushkin came with a SATA tray to insert into my PC. I'll have to check out my PC tower and see what drive bay(s) are available.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

So are both SSDs going to end up in your MBP??

I guess was my query.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

csonni said:


> Just checked the label on the Mushkin and it says "Firmware Rev; MP1_3.3.2
> I see that there's a firmware of that version that was released this past August so I'm assuming that this SSD has the newest update on it.


Even their latest firmware "Chronos_Chronos_Deluxe_3.3.2_FW_Update_all_densities" released October 24. 2011 indicates as does it's Read Me that the Firmware Rev; MP1_3.3.2 is still the latest version, so I would think your assumption and the label are both correct. It's got Firmware Rev; MP1_3.3.2 installed.


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## hbp (Apr 18, 2007)

Good price for a Crucial M4 (256GB) if anyone is interested: Buy the Crucial 256GB m4 2.5 SSD with Data Transfer Kit at TigerDirect.ca


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

pm-r, yes, both are going in my MBP.
I just found some info regarding the Mushkin. Apparently, installing a SATA III Mushkin in a SATA II MBP (those with Nvidia chipsets) will Only have a negotiated link speed of 1.5 Gigabit (SATA I). I'm not too thrilled about that. Here's one of the posts:
Mushkin Enhanced Forums • View topic - Chronos Deluxe negotiated link speed on Macbook Pros


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## hbp (Apr 18, 2007)

csonni said:


> pm-r, yes, both are going in my MBP.
> I just found some info regarding the Mushkin. Apparently, installing a SATA III Mushkin in a SATA II MBP (those with Nvidia chipsets) will Only have a negotiated link speed of 1.5 Gigabit (SATA I). I'm not too thrilled about that. Here's one of the posts:
> Mushkin Enhanced Forums • View topic - Chronos Deluxe negotiated link speed on Macbook Pros


XX)

Looks like no ETA on the fix either. I bet a firmware update should come soon though...


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

I'll probably justbe using the Mushkin in the optibay for storage, so maybe this won't be an issue at all. I'm thinking of putting the OWC in as my OS drive, etc.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Still though, the speeds of these puppies are waaaay faster than the platter drives.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Got both the OWC and the Mushkin in and am now doing a Fresh Install of Lion onto the OWC 480GB. I almost closed up the MBP after just installing the OWC as I didn't have any magnetized screwdrivers and didn't want to drop those 2 little screws holding down one side of the Superdrive. Instead, I took a small magnet device and magnetized the bit so I could lift the 2 screws out. Other than that, moving some of those delicate cables around gets my goad a bit. Plugged in my bootable Lion USB Flash Drive and started up with the Option key down. Nothing. So I turned on my External Firewire Clone, Erased and Partitioned both SSDs, chose the Lion USB as Startup and now I'm setting up my OSX. Will post back with impressions.

15 seconds startup from chime on first restart.

Not even one bounce for the Apple Apps to (iTunes, Mail, iCal, Address Book and Safari) to startup.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Pretty much done with installing most of what I need right now. My first impressions? It would be very disappointing to go back to a platter drive. You just can't beat the performance of these SSDs. If you want to breathe some new life into what you have, get one (or two!).

Other than a very faint whirring of my single fan, this is dead silent. What I don't miss is the ticking of what I believe was heads parking on the HDD.

Battery life is estimated at over 7 hours where as before it was around 5. The temperature of the CPU is down to 45-50 degrees. I believe it was closer to 60 with the HDD.

It's almost too good to be true.


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## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

That's what we've all been saying


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

csonni said:


> pm-r, yes, both are going in my MBP.
> I just found some info regarding the Mushkin. Apparently, installing a SATA III Mushkin in a SATA II MBP (those with Nvidia chipsets) will Only have a negotiated link speed of 1.5 Gigabit (SATA I). I'm not too thrilled about that. Here's one of the posts:
> Mushkin Enhanced Forums • View topic - Chronos Deluxe negotiated link speed on Macbook Pros



That seems so bizarre that a MBP with a NVIDIA chipset would degrade the negotiated link speed so drastically, so I'm guessing that it has nothing really to do with the NVIDIA chipsets and it's just used as a marker for the affected MBPs, and actually something else is causing the degraded negotiated SATA II link speed.

And I guess a quick mod of a .kext file isn't going to fix the problem. That's just dreaming too much!!!


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

csonni said:


> The temperature of the CPU is down to 45-50 degrees. I believe it was closer to 60 with the HDD.
> 
> It's almost too good to be true.


You must not be working that SSD too hard. Mine routinely gets to 90° to 93° when running multiple functions that tax the CPU with fans spinning at 6,200 RPM.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

I must have my info wrong. Someone on the Mushkin forum told me I had an Intel chipset. It's only my graphics card that is NVidia. So, I should be fine.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

SINC said:


> You must not be working that SSD too hard. Mine routinely gets to 90° to 93° when running multiple functions that tax the CPU with fans spinning at 6,200 RPM.


Nope. Just browsing, copying, installing, etc.


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## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

Correct the MBPs have intel chips for the SATA controllers so it should link up at 3 on your machine.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Was just browsing through Serial-ATA in my System Profiler and see that it is the NVidia MCP89 AHCI. The Link Speed is listed at 3 Gigabit but the Negotiated Link Speed right below that is 1.5 Gigabit. So does this mean my system is affected? From what I've read, this can be an issue for HDD but shouldn't be for SSD, of which I have. I have the latest firmware 2.0 (MBP71.0039.B0E). I wonder if resetting the SMC, as some say, would give me back the correct speed.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Now this is interesting. I did an SMC reset, rebooted and now I have Negotiated Link Speed at 3 Gigabits. We'll see how long it lasts. Some say it goes back to 1.5 after a sleep or reboot.


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## hbp (Apr 18, 2007)

SSD prices are dropping like mad!


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Sure enough, after a reboot, the Negotiated Link Speed is back to 1.5 Gigabit. I did notice a boost in speed when it was at 3 Gigabit. Bummer.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

csonni said:


> Sure enough, after a reboot, the Negotiated Link Speed is back to 1.5 Gigabit. I did notice a boost in speed when it was at 3 Gigabit. Bummer.


It seems that you're not alone with the 1.5 link speed problem. 

What MBP model do you have and is its EFI firmware up to date?

According to one poster that said:
"After researching this particular model further we discovered that unfortunately Apple has locked the EFI for this model for 1.5Gb/s instead of 3.0 Gb/s transfer. 

Technically the tools that other companies using similar Sandforce controllers are editing the EFI, in which we do not have a similar tweak since it may cause further issues and/or void the warranty. "

Patriot Wildfire & Macbook = SLOW

Some similar problems at an older forum:
Statement from Corsair appreciated - Link speed on Mac's only 1.5 GB/s - The Corsair Support Forums

Mac EFI firmware check EFI and SMC firmware updates for Intel-based Macs


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

I've got the mid-2010 13" MBP and it has the latest Firmware Update.
I suppose I could reset the SMC again since that brings back the 3 Gigabit Link Speed. Is there a problem with resetting the SMC too often?


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

If that was my MBP and my $$$, I'd run a speed test for the listed 1.5 speed, then try the SMC reset and run a speed test for the listed 3.0 speed and see what you get.

Obviously the SMC looses it listed 3.0 speed after a normal restart.

My nickel says you'll be lucky if you even get close to the 1.5 speed regardless of the System Profiler's listed speed. Just as many others are getting:
Half speed writes on new mushkin deluxe chronos - ssd - Storage
Mushkin Enhanced Forums • View topic - Chronos 120 - Slow read/write speeds

plus all the Mushkin forum comments on the Chronos Deluxe and slow speed.

If you're not getting the speed you're expecting and paid for, I'd return it and get your money back and buy a drive that DOES work properly.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Running XBench right now but I'm not sure if it's running through its tests. It quickly delivered up through CPU and Thread tests, but that's it. It says it's still running but I see no more data. My CPU comes in at only 166.08- under many results from what I can see. What I'm looking for is read and write tests on the SSD but nothing. Does XBench not work with SSDs?


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

I'm not sure about XBench, but I do know what Blackmagic Speed Test says:

"Some SSD's use hidden compression when writing data to make their benchmarked speeds appear faster Disk Speed Test will now measure the true speed of these SSD's so you know if they are suitable for high quality uncompressed video capture. "


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Ran the BlackMagic Speed Test before and after an SMC reset and there's quite a big difference in results. Average read before was 104 MB/s and after was 150 MB/s. Average write before was 140 MB/s and after was nearly 200 MB/s. Not sure what this translates into. Not sure how to read the various results in BlackMagic with all the various read/writes, but it does appear to be much better after the SMC reset.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

AJA System Test is what we use.
Lets you set the various file sizes.

It's free download.
Software - AJA Video Systems


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Doesn't seem to function at all on my system. Clicking the Start button does nothing.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Hmmm... it works for me. SL and mid-2007 iMac 4GB RAM, WD Black 1TB two partitions. And with other external FW 800 connected drives.

You sure seem to have and get an unusual amount of non-working stuff with your MBP.

Just saying...  Maybe it just don't like being up in Goose Bay, Labrador, Canada.  Too cold or dry .... or???


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