# Just installed Lion upgrade



## MacDaddy68

Thought some of you might like to know how it went.

Smooth sailing really. As I bought my iMac July 2nd, I was able to use the Up-to-date web page upgrade program without a hitch. The download (and I have a 15Mbps cable connection) took about an hour - and the install (over a fresh and clean Snow Leopard mind you) was about 20 mins :clap: 

I have to say, so far, I'm impressed. Now to start migrating... :yikes:


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## polywog

Only "issues" i had were having to re-select my colour profiles, spotlight re-indexing and the new scroll behaviour. Nothing to complain about at all. So far, I love it. The new mail app rocks.


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## Andrew Pratt

I'm liking it so far...just have to relearn how to scroll!


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## mrhud

Download is taking a while for me. Keeps changing from 45 to 55....I'm on a high speed connection at work too and it's sloooow.


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## mrhud

Too bad I won't be able to install it on my older 17" iMac from 2006. Time to get a new iMac I guess


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## MacDoc

There options to reverse the scrolling.

The Mail app has a lot of neat features and some confusing ones but in general very good. Found a little hidden one today with a pop up choice of things to do I had not noticed.

this aspect of establishing a readable conversation is briliant


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## mrhud

2.05 GB of 3.74GB


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## Benito

I have downloaded it, but because I'm at work and unsure how long the installation will take, I haven't launched the installer just yet.

I am now putting a copy of the installer on a USB stick. Does anyone know if I can then copy that to my other Macs and install Lion on them without having to download again?


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## Tech Elementz

Benito said:


> I have downloaded it, but because I'm at work and unsure how long the installation will take, I haven't launched the installer just yet.
> 
> I am now putting a copy of the installer on a USB stick. Does anyone know if I can then copy that to my other Macs and install Lion on them without having to download again?


Yes you can. I believe on up to 10 Macs...


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## MacDoc

Something portable users will like.
When you shut your machine down ( not just sleep but off )

*When you start up it will be as you last left it, exactly.* :clap:

Startled me the first time. :yikes:


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## monokitty

MacDoc said:


> Something portable users will like.
> When you shut your machine down ( not just sleep but off )
> 
> *When you start up it will be as you last left it, exactly.*


Interesting. Does it make the unit slow? I ask because applications that auto-launch on startup for example can make even a well loaded Mac come to an utter crawl to the point of embarrassment.


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## Benito

How long did it take your computer to install Lion, once the download was completed? I'm not sure if I should try this at work or wait until I'm at home. I have a 2011 MBP i7.


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## johnnyspade

Benito said:


> How long did it take your computer to install Lion, once the download was completed? I'm not sure if I should try this at work or wait until I'm at home. I have a 2011 MBP i7.


20 minutes to a half hour for me, on a 2009 Macbook Pro.


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## Benito

johnnyspade said:


> 20 minutes to a half hour for me, on a 2009 Macbook Pro.


Thank you very much, I guess my MBP would be faster, but probably not fast enough to take a chance with here at work. I'll try to be patient and wait until I get home.


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## jayman

So far so good. I need to get used to the scrolling, also I can't seem to do a three finger swipe in Safari for forward/back. I hope there is an option to set that up.


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## monokitty

I dislike the reverse scrolling - first thing I disabled. My computer is a Mac, not an iPad - thanks.


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## Lawrence

Andrew Pratt said:


> I'm liking it so far...just have to relearn how to scroll!


Same here, What the fook happened to my scroll on my mouse?
I can't scroll anymore, Also my 1Password went south.

Hello Apple, Time for an update to 10.7.1 and then 10.7.2 please.

The down arrow on my keyboard is too annoying,
I want to use my scroll wheel again....Please.

Oh wait...Just tried it again after I posted,
Up is down and down is up on my scroll wheel,
How messed up is that?


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## fjnmusic

Lawrence said:


> Same here, What the fook happened to my scroll on my mouse?
> I can't scroll anymore, Also my 1Password went south.
> 
> Hello Apple, Time for an update to 10.7.1 and then 10.7.2 please.
> 
> The down arrow on my keyboard is too annoying,
> I want to use my scroll wheel again....Please.
> 
> Oh wait...Just tried it again after I posted,
> Up is down and down is up on my scroll wheel,
> How messed up is that?


I imagine this is why we try to read the previous posts first…


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## Lawrence

fjnmusic said:


> I imagine this is why we try to read the previous posts first…


Who mentioned 1Password?

The scroll wheel was certainly annoying,
But at least I found the solution.

Apparently, My girlfriend says that that's the normal way on a P.C.
Me, I'd have thought Apple would have stayed with the reverse, Oh well.

We are in Lion territory now.


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## Lawrence

Benito said:


> How long did it take your computer to install Lion, once the download was completed? I'm not sure if I should try this at work or wait until I'm at home. I have a 2011 MBP i7.


It's 3.5 gb's to download plus at least a 30 minute install,
Your monitor will nod off a few times if you are sitting there,
I woke mine up a few times, I'm impatient, What can I say.

The whole process is painless right now,
Later when everyone gets home from work might be slower.


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## Guest

It's pretty darned slow right now, at least for me. Been downloading for over 2 hours so far and about 2/3 of the way done. I bet tonight it's going to be suuuuuper slow to download.


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## Digikid

THe ONLY thing I hate about it is that new scrolling behavior. Turned that JUNK off. LOL!!! Kept my programs intact. Just just need to make a USB Key that will install it. DVD? Nah that is too old school for me. 

So far.....not much different at all really. 45 minutes to download and 20-25min install on a mid 2010 13 inch MBP.


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## MacDoc

*Whoever asked about the restore aspect.*
I think it takes a bit more time to shut down.
Boot seems pretty normal - I have not put it on my machine with the SSD - the above was with a standard speed 750

I suspect with the SSD it will be pretty transparent and if you take into account that you do not have to shut down programs the whole transaction may be shorter.

Now MG whats with the secret partition...is this the restore state trick or???


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## Lawrence

fjnmusic said:


> I imagine this is why we try to read the previous posts first…


OK...

Found it...I can change the scrolling direction in the control panel,
Don't you think it might have been more productive to mention that?

I un clicked the box in the mouse control panel for all those wondering wtf


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## Guest

MacDoc said:


> *Whoever asked about the restore aspect.*
> I think it takes a bit more time to shut down.
> Boot seems pretty normal - I have not put it on my machine with the SSD - the above was with a standard speed 750
> 
> I suspect with the SSD it will be pretty transparent and if you take into account that you do not have to shut down programs the whole transaction may be shorter.
> 
> Now MG whats with the secret partition...is this the restore state trick or???


With SSD it's incredibly fast at startup even with things restoring to their previous states ... with this MBP 13" i7 I'm running pretty much everything is instant, even at startup. 

With SL from the time the kernel starts loading (the spinning wheel under the Apple logo) to a fully loaded desktop including my startup apps it's around 7 seconds for me. Will tell you how it works out with Lion in a little while 

The hidden partition is an installer/recovery partition. I don't think it has anything to do with the previous state restore. You can boot into the recovery partition if you hold down the option key at startup.


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## jayman

jayman said:


> So far so good. I need to get used to the scrolling, also I can't seem to do a three finger swipe in Safari for forward/back. I hope there is an option to set that up.


Ugh, I just figured out that I need to do a two finger swipe, also in the opposite direction to get forward/back in Safari.

The new dictionary/look-up feature is nice.


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## Andrew Pratt

swipe to navigate in FireFox is now broken as well unless you change the default two finger swipe to something else. I'm sure we'll see a quick update from Mozilla.


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## Digikid

Andrew Pratt said:


> swipe to navigate in FireFox is now broken as well unless you change the default two finger swipe to something else. I'm sure we'll see a quick update from Mozilla.


Good call. I missed that one.


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## thegoat54

Has anyone tried making their own USB drive of the install and doing a fresh install? (not an upgrade)


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## Adrian.

Up and running here. No speed increases noticed. Mission Control/Launchpad are sort of gimmicky. Mail is very nice. iCal looks like a cheap Danier knock off. Not worth $30. Save your sheckles people.


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## darkscot

Adrian. said:


> Up and running here. No speed increases noticed. Mission Control/Launchpad are sort of gimmicky. Mail is very nice. iCal looks like a cheap Danier knock off. Not worth $30. Save your sheckles people.


Totally agree Adrian. I don't get the fuss. Maybe $9,99.


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## Chealion

mguertin said:


> The hidden partition is an installer/recovery partition. I don't think it has anything to do with the previous state restore. You can boot into the recovery partition if you hold down the option key at startup.


Or Command-R - see OS X Lion: About Lion Recovery

It works great using NetBoot as well.


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## Chealion

Been using it since early July - settled in quite nicely and the only issue I've run into was the fact I had to move off using Quicken. Had been putting that off for years.


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## Macfury

darkscot said:


> Totally agree Adrian. I don't get the fuss. Maybe $9,99.


Because you used to only have a snow leopard--and now you have a LION!


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## csonni

Downloaded and installed. I can't seem to open System Preferences. I also just realized that AppleWorks is broken. No Rosetta of course. I'll have to boot off of my external drive and convert those over to either Pages or Word.


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## Jason H

I downloaded it at work today, I was expecting chaos but the download only took an amazing 20 minutes! 

I saved the fun of installing for when I got home and backed up everything! Wish me luck folks.


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## egremont

I have installed on MacBookPro only as it was the one I was less concerned about "losing" stuff.

Well, darn, darn, my smart mailboxes are empty. Used them to save e-mails with attachments.


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## MacDoc

Mail alone is worth the price of admission.

Restore on restart is extremely useful.

Some other things are annoying ( no Rosetta ).

NOt surprised to see a Mail issue - took a loooooong time to deal with my 14 gigs or so.


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## equisol

Macfury said:


> Because you used to only have a snow leopard--and now you have a LION!


And it really is only 2.90, as you can install on out to 10 computers. Beats the heck out of Microsoft at 200. per install for the student edition.


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## egremont

MacDoc - tried the restore. Closed mail to go have a look at some other feature. Came back to Mail and attempted to open my little Canadian flag, that is my mail icon and I was given the message that " could not open etc wrong os etc" Took it off the dock and went back into applications and mail opened. 

Moved the eagle to the dock and all was happy to open Mail from the dock. Except me. Later I will try and get back my Canadian Flag. 

I do not like using the trackpad. I think I might remain a luddite mouser. I do try from time to time.


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## chimo

Installed it on my MBP. Since it seems to be working fine, I'm moving on to the iMac now.


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## okcomputer

My new iMac arrived today, so I had to use the up-to-date program, but it was smooth and painless. Got my redemption code and popped it into the App Store. It downloaded in about five minutes.

Rebooted and about 20mins later I was up and running.

Still cannot get used to the "natural scrolling," even though it's how I scroll when using my iPhone... I guess 12 years of using trackpads makes it difficult to change. It hurts my brain!

Still playing around, but I like most things. Launchpad is great, and I think Mission Control will be useful when using full-screen apps. I've attempted to explore all of the new features tonight, but I have an early morning tomorrow, so I will have to wait until tomorrow night to continue playing and exploring.


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## SINC

okcomputer said:


> Still cannot get used to the "natural scrolling," even though it's how I scroll when using my iPhone... I guess 12 years of using trackpads makes it difficult to change. It hurts my brain!


It must have hurt it badly. A simple uncheck of the feature turns all back to normal in System Prefs. I did that about 10 seconds after trying the back-assed Lion method.


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## Jason H

I'm all installed now. So far so good!

I'm enjoying the new mail app... scrolling not so much... 

now if only full screen safari had an airplay button.....


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## imactheknife

I installed Lion on the 2009 Macbook Pro and it's all good so far. It seems to take longer to boot though...any thoughts?

Safari is wicked fast as another note.

Battery life is reporting poor. I usually get 5-6 hours reporting, now it says 2:45 on a full charge. Will keep monitoring that.


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## mac_geek

SINC said:


> It must have hurt it badly. A simple uncheck of the feature turns all back to normal in System Prefs. I did that about 10 seconds after trying the back-assed Lion method.


+1 for normal scrolling. Reading this thread pointed me in the right direction.. and things are feeling much better now!


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## okcomputer

SINC said:


> It must have hurt it badly. A simple uncheck of the feature turns all back to normal in System Prefs. I did that about 10 seconds after trying the back-assed Lion method.


Haha I know, but I am giving it a whirl. It feels natural sometimes but other times my brain just doesn't cooperate. 

I will probably uncheck since I will be using a MBP with SL in addition to the iMac with Lion on pretty much a daily basis and if they scroll differently my brain will fry quickly.


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## mac_geek

I can't understand why they haven't fixed one thing that really bugs me...

...how come sometimes the red dot means "close the window" and sometimes it means "quit the program"? It's not even consistent on native apps to the OS (i.e. Address Book quits, iCal closes the window). What gives, man?


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## Ants

*couple of cool features*

so far so good. took a while for Mail to get up and running (have over 8GB). I like the new 3 pane view and how an email thread can be collapsed/expanded.

I also noticed that I can use two finger horizontal scrolling in Safari and it acts like the back/forward button. the sliding window is kind of neat. 

The users library folder is now hidden in Finder. to access it, you can hold down the alt key from the Go menu.

Launchpad is not for me but do not mind Mission Control. I guess it's a mash up of Spaces and Expose.


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## spiffychristian

mrhud said:


> Too bad I won't be able to install it on my older 17" iMac from 2006. Time to get a new iMac I guess


Ah this scares me. I've only got 1GB of RAM on my 5-year old iMac. 

She still runs like the day I got her though. It scares me knowing it's near the end...


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## monokitty

spiffychristian said:


> Ah this scares me. I've only got 1GB of RAM on my 5-year old iMac.


It's not a RAM problem - the processor, a Core Duo, is unsupported.


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## spiffychristian

mac_geek said:


> I can't understand why they haven't fixed one thing that really bugs me...
> 
> ...how come sometimes the red dot means "close the window" and sometimes it means "quit the program"? It's not even consistent on native apps to the OS (i.e. Address Book quits, iCal closes the window). What gives, man?


Because certain things you reference constantly, or use a lot, like a calendar, or itunes, or a web browser, but often once you are done uploading photos or editing them or looking up someone's address, you don't need it anymore. that's why. it has always made sense to me.


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## spiffychristian

Lars said:


> It's not a RAM problem - the processor, a Core Duo, is unsupported.


It's a Core 2 Duo, actually. I got it when it was just released. But the requirements said it needed at least 2GB of ram


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## monokitty

spiffychristian said:


> It's a Core 2 Duo, actually. I got it when it was just released. But the requirements said it needed at least 2GB of ram


Ah. Well, RAM is cheap.


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## spiffychristian

Lars said:


> Ah. Well, RAM is cheap.


True. I will just quit complaining though, I'm not getting Lion anytime soon. I feel like I just bought Snow Leopard - which I like. 

I would have liked to keep Tiger, though.


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## chas_m

When I read about people talking about the "reversed scrolling" I was a bit confused -- why would Apple do that? Then someone said it was reflective of the way scrolling is done on iOS products, and I thought to myself "no it isn't!!" I have two iPhones, an iPad, and a Magic Mouse (on a Mac running SL) and I switch between these constantly with no issues.

Then I actually looked at myself scrolling on the iPhone. I'll. Be. Danged.

In short, I don't think the reverse scrolling will take long to get used to, and as others have pointed out you can change it if you want. I haven't upgraded yet, will do so when I'm not using the computer for work (that might take a while), have a tested full backup and clone, and have weeded out the few remaining programs that aren't up to code (what's up with that, Blogo?).


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## pm-r

spiffychristian said:


> True. I will just quit complaining though, I'm not getting Lion anytime soon. I feel like I just bought Snow Leopard - which I like.
> 
> I would have liked to keep Tiger, though.


Hmmm... not at all sure why you would want to keep or use Tiger but you can use any compatible Mac OS that your Mac supports using another hard drive or any other Mac formatted volume.

Just don't expect too much if any support if using Tiger.


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## SoyMac

chas_m said:


> When I read about people talking about the "reversed scrolling" ....
> 
> Then I actually looked at myself scrolling on the iPhone. I'll. Be. Danged.
> 
> In short, I don't think the reverse scrolling will take long to get used to, and as others have pointed out you can change it if you want. ....


Yep.

Dad, who has only ever had a Mac, still gets confused when I tell him to "scroll up" or "scroll down".
Dad tries to get the page to go up, by dragging the pointer "up".
But then, the page goes down, Dad utters a little, "Oh." and then Dad has to restart the scrolling process.

I get it. 
If I was trying to push a piece of paper "up" an inclined desk (away from me), I wouldn't pull it "down" (toward me).


If I hadn't seen the action and intuitive movements of a novice, mac-only-ever computer user with my own eyes, I might be less impressed with Apple's move to reverse the scrolling action.
But it looks like Apple really studied the users to set this one up.
That's not to say we old-timers are _wrong_ to turn off that preference, but only that Apple recognised there was another _right_ way that might make sense to a majority of users.


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## fjnmusic

spiffychristian said:


> True. I will just quit complaining though, I'm not getting Lion anytime soon. I feel like I just bought Snow Leopard - which I like.
> 
> I would have liked to keep Tiger, though.


Even if you don't get Lion, I'd upgrade your memory to as much as your machine can handle (mine will take 4GB but "sees" 3GB, for example, same age as yours), and it will speed things up considerably as well as let you run more programs at the same time.


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## fjnmusic

chas_m said:


> When I read about people talking about the "reversed scrolling" I was a bit confused -- why would Apple do that? Then someone said it was reflective of the way scrolling is done on iOS products, and I thought to myself "no it isn't!!" I have two iPhones, an iPad, and a Magic Mouse (on a Mac running SL) and I switch between these constantly with no issues.
> 
> Then I actually looked at myself scrolling on the iPhone. I'll. Be. Danged.
> 
> In short, I don't think the reverse scrolling will take long to get used to, and as others have pointed out you can change it if you want. I haven't upgraded yet, will do so when I'm not using the computer for work (that might take a while), have a tested full backup and clone, and have weeded out the few remaining programs that aren't up to code (what's up with that, Blogo?).


That's because your finger grips the "page" and moves it upward so you can see what's revealed below, whereas the mouse, even the magic mouse. slides in the direction you want to be going. I've already encountered some similar counter-intuitive mouse/scrolling behaviour in the digital version of the Edmonton Journal and also on the remote for our PVR, where in one case the higher button takes you to a lower numbered channel and in another case the higher button means channel up. Hate it.


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## motoyen

I just installed Lion and I HATE it. I hate Mission Control. Spaces was so much better. Hate the rubber banding everywhere. Hate all the unnecessary animation. Hate the new iCal. I ****ing hate that iPod sometimes for what it has done to Apple.


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## 9780

imactheknife said:


> Battery life is reporting poor. I usually get 5-6 hours reporting, now it says 2:45 on a full charge. Will keep monitoring that.


Just wait for the spotlight indexing to be finished and your battery life will be back to normal...


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## Guest

Natural scrolling vs. traditional scrolling in a nutshell ... 

With natural scrolling it's all about moving the page content, the same as you would on a touch screen device, but "touching" the page content and then pushing it in the direction you want it to move. With traditional scrolling it's all about "touching" (moving) the scroll bar indicator (the interface component that you use with a mouse to move the page) and moving it in the direction you want the scroll bar indicator to go.

I much prefer the traditional way personally, especially as I move back and forth between SL and Lion multiple times a day. When working on a computer I tend to think more along the lines of moving of the scroll bar indicator (interface element) than the moving of the actual document content. On an iPad/iPhone it's natural to think about moving the document via the content because you actually "touch" it to do so. It's not "natural" feeling for me to think about "touching" inside a document with a mouse pointer as a means to move it (and my "old-school" interface usage tells me that if I was to "touch" inside the document I would really be dragging the cursor pointer in order to select the document contents -- not scrolling the document).


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## 9780

I guess the natural scrolling makes a lot more sense when you use a trackpad VS a scroll wheel, too. I've adapted nearly instantly to the natural scrolling, to the point I get confused when I see people use their computers and scroll "backwards" lol


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## JayEyes

*It broke my connection to my NAS*

All was cool until I discovered no more access to my NAS (Synology 411+) and Time Machine is broken as it backed up to the NAS.


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## Benito

I actually like the natural scrolling on Lion. It is exactly as if your fingers were on the screen dragging upwards to see more of the page below. As well, I'm surprised no one has mentioned auto correct! I LOVE auto correct. : )


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## tilt

The only problem I foresee with natural scrolling in Lion is when people like me, who have an old MacBook that cannot run Lion and also have a MBPro that can run ion keep swapping laptops. I would have to scroll one way on one laptop and the opposite way in the other.

It is easy to make that mental switch from laptop to iPhone, but not so easy when switching from laptop to laptop.

Cheers


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## monokitty

tilt said:


> The only problem I foresee with natural scrolling in Lion is when people like me, who have an old MacBook that cannot run Lion and also have a MBPro that can run ion keep swapping laptops. I would have to scroll one way on one laptop and the opposite way in the other.
> 
> It is easy to make that mental switch from laptop to iPhone, but not so easy when switching from laptop to laptop.
> 
> Cheers


You can disable 'natural scrolling' so it's a non-issue.


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## screature

JayEyes said:


> All was cool until I discovered to more access to my NAS (Synology 411+) and Time Machine is broken as it backed up to the NAS.


Synology DiskStation Manager 3.2 Beta Release Notes



> 6. Mac OS X Lion Support:
> 
> The Netatalk package has been upgraded to 2.2 to enhance the compatibility with Mac file service (AFP) in the latest Mac OS X Lion.
> Time Machine in Mac OS X Lion is tested and proven to be compatible.


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## JayEyes

screature said:


> Synology DiskStation Manager 3.2 Beta Release Notes


Thanks! I found that and installed the Beta but so far it's still not working


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## Vexel

Absolutely, love Lion. 

Full screen apps are a treat, I can't wait until more apps support it. 

Natural scrolling is great for me, used to it already. 

The new Mail.app is great. I also like Dashboard much more now. I find myself swiping to use it a lot more. 

So far, no broken apps for me, either. Zipping along quite nicely on all machines.


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## screature

JayEyes said:


> Thanks! I found that and installed the Beta but so far it's still not working


That's too bad... hope you had a clone of your SL install so you can go back to it if you need to.


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## spiffychristian

fjnmusic said:


> Even if you don't get Lion, I'd upgrade your memory to as much as your machine can handle (mine will take 4GB but "sees" 3GB, for example, same age as yours), and it will speed things up considerably as well as let you run more programs at the same time.


I might as well. Thanks for the suggestion, because I do want to keep this iMac for as long as possible.

Is there any cheap places on the internet to get compatible RAM?


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## spiffychristian

motoyen said:


> I just installed Lion and I HATE it. I hate Mission Control. Spaces was so much better. Hate the rubber banding everywhere. Hate all the unnecessary animation. Hate the new iCal. I ****ing hate that iPod sometimes for what it has done to Apple.




iPad***


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## CubaMark

spiffychristian said:


> Is there any cheap places on the internet to get compatible RAM?


That reminds me of the saying: "You can get it cheap or fast or good. Pick two."

ehMac has a sponsor who is highly recommended by anyone who has used 'em: CanadaRam.com

I've used CanadaRam and can attest to the quality of their product, reliable shipping, and customer service.


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## Garry

So I installed Lion on my main drive last night, then installed the updates for itunes, iwork, and remote desktop .. so far so good.

Then I went into itunes, saw I had a few app updates.. selected "download all updates", entered my password, annnd.. nothing. I haven't been able to download any app updates. Is anyone else having this problem?

The rest of lion is great. I actually caught on to the natural scrolling within 2 hours.. makes total sense.


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## Guest

The autocorrect is super annoying to me. I don't want my computer to change what I type to what it feels I should have typed. Soon there'll be another website dedicated to all the dumb stuff autocorrect has done to your emails, etc. (it was bad enough on the iPhone).


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## jayman

Garry said:


> So I installed Lion on my main drive last night, then installed the updates for itunes, iwork, and remote desktop .. so far so good.
> 
> Then I went into itunes, saw I had a few app updates.. selected "download all updates", entered my password, annnd.. nothing. I haven't been able to download any app updates. Is anyone else having this problem?
> 
> The rest of lion is great. I actually caught on to the natural scrolling within 2 hours.. makes total sense.


I have the same problems with iTunes. I found that you can download the updates if you click on each one individually.


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## Garry

jayman said:


> I have the same problems with iTunes. I found that you can download the updates if you click on each one individually.


Cool.. I'll try that when I get home.


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## fjnmusic

tilt said:


> The only problem I foresee with natural scrolling in Lion is when people like me, who have an old MacBook that cannot run Lion and also have a MBPro that can run ion keep swapping laptops. I would have to scroll one way on one laptop and the opposite way in the other.
> 
> It is easy to make that mental switch from laptop to iPhone, but not so easy when switching from laptop to laptop.
> 
> Cheers


No kidding. It's like switching from km/hour to miles/hour when you cross the border--very confusing.


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## Heart

things I love:

gestures in Safari
1Password integration in Safari
The kids like full screen in Safari
Launch Pad is handy but not used much yet.
Mission Contron - meh!?!
Safari download integration - nice
iCal - nice improvement
Address book - fuglytptptptp
(I want to figure gesture the pages of the address book)
That didn't come out right 

Squareness - progress bars buttons - getting use to it 

Netflix full screen on second monitor needs fixing

Notices Ram requirements are up - via MenuMeters Basic use 3.5GB uses (still 12GB Free:lmao


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## Garry

motoyen said:


> I just installed Lion and I HATE it. I hate Mission Control. Spaces was so much better. Hate the rubber banding everywhere. Hate all the unnecessary animation. Hate the new iCal. I ****ing hate that iPod sometimes for what it has done to Apple.


Wow... did you even look at the main features that apple's been promoting since they announced it, or did you just blindly buy it?


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## MacGuiver

Things didn't go so well for me. The download and install went fine. Upon reboot it just froze at the grey screen and refused to go further. I tried booting to the new emergency partition Lion creates but it failed to get any further at startup. Tried booting in safemode but it failed too. Currently waiting for my time machine restore to complete. I hope it doesn't hit any walls or I'll be in trouble. 

Cheers
MacGuiver


----------



## Guest

MacGuiver said:


> Things didn't go so well for me. The download and install went fine. Upon reboot it just froze at the grey screen and refused to go further. I tried booting to the new emergency partition Lion creates but it failed to get any further at startup. Tried booting in safemode but it failed too. Currently waiting for my time machine restore to complete. I hope it doesn't hit any walls or I'll be in trouble.
> 
> Cheers
> MacGuiver


Did you check and/or repair your hard drive before installing?


----------



## Garry

mguertin said:


> Did you check and/or repair your hard drive before installing?


Funny thing.. I watched the progress log, and lion checked and repaired my hard drive automatically without me asking. It's done during the long pause after the reboot and the progress screen shows up. I watched the log showing it repairing my hard drive.


----------



## JayEyes

screature said:


> That's too bad... hope you had a clone of your SL install so you can go back to it if you need to.


Yes, I did clone on a separate HD. Thankfully though, I just rebooted everything and I'm good.


----------



## Guest

Garry said:


> Funny thing.. I watched the progress log, and lion checked and repaired my hard drive automatically without me asking. It's done during the long pause after the reboot and the progress screen shows up. I watched the log showing it repairing my hard drive.


After the reboot yes but if you don't get that far into the process because of hard drive issues it's not going to be that helpful to you .. it can't do that hard drive check and repair until after you're booted into the installer.


----------



## markw

Lion is running fine for me, but why does the new Safari NEVER start with my homepage like I have set in the preferences! If I quit Safari with a bunch of windows open, they will all be there the Next time I restart, I checked on Apples Support and others have the same problem!


----------



## monokitty

markw said:


> Lion is running fine for me, but why does the new Safari NEVER start with my homepage like I have set in the preferences! If I quit Safari with a bunch of windows open, they will all be there the Next time I restart, I checked on Apples Support and others have the same problem!


System Prefs > General (to turn it off). I had the same issue.


----------



## markw

Lars said:


> System Prefs > General (to turn it off). I had the same issue.


Do you mean turn off the setting for my homepage? Because that is how it's behaving now! I tried turning it off and back on yesterday, no difference!


----------



## okcomputer

markw said:


> Do you mean turn off the setting for my homepage? Because that is how it's behaving now! I tried turning it off and back on yesterday, no difference!


No, that's actually Lion's Resume feature reopening your tabs after you close Safari. You have to disable the Resume feature.

I guess it actually makes the Safari home page setting useless. Unless you figure out the hidden key command Option+Command+Q to "Quit and Discard Windows."


----------



## Jim

*Move an app to the desktop*

Is it just me or can applications no longer be moved to the desktop? When I try via drag and drop I end up creating an alias.


----------



## markw

*I don't see the Resume feature*

Okay, I'm looking in the preferences and I don't see it, just the homepage and new tab settings, is it somewhere other than the General Safari preferences?




okcomputer said:


> No, that's actually Lion's Resume feature reopening your tabs after you close Safari. You have to disable the Resume feature.
> 
> I guess it actually makes the Safari home page setting useless. Unless you figure out the hidden key command Option+Command+Q to "Quit and Discard Windows."


----------



## mrhud

Is there way to be able to see the date and time while in full screen mode for an app without having to place my cursor on the top of the screen? . I like being able to see this info


----------



## broad

why does lion automagically turn on fast user switching? frigging stupid, especially with computers tha only have 1 user acct!


----------



## Ants

broad said:


> why does lion automagically turn on fast user switching? frigging stupid, especially with computers tha only have 1 user acct!


i hate this as well. you need to turn it off in System Preference -> Users & Groups. Click on Login Options and uncheck Show Fast User Switching Menu.


----------



## monokitty

broad said:


> why does lion automagically turn on fast user switching? frigging stupid, especially with computers tha only have 1 user acct!


This didn't happen in my case.


----------



## polywog

jayman said:


> I have the same problems with iTunes. I found that you can download the updates if you click on each one individually.


+1 had the exact same problem and solution.


----------



## Andrew Pratt

This is a useful write up on how to make Lion behave like Snow Lion 

7 Annoying Settings You Can Change in Lion | Mac|Life


----------



## rgray

tilt said:


> The only problem I foresee with natural scrolling in Lion is when people like me, who have an old MacBook that cannot run Lion and also have a MBPro that can run ion keep swapping laptops. I would have to scroll one way on one laptop and the opposite way in the other.
> 
> It is easy to make that mental switch from laptop to iPhone, but not so easy when switching from laptop to laptop.
> 
> Cheers





fjnmusic said:


> No kidding. It's like switching from km/hour to miles/hour when you cross the border--very confusing.


Apparently Scroll Reverser for Mac OS X gives Lion like scrolling on earlier machines.


> Scroll Reverser is a free app for Mac OS X Snow Leopard and Leopard that reverses the direction of scrolling. With reverse scrolling, the page content moves in the same direction that you move your fingers, just like on iOS devices and OS X Lion.
> 
> Requires Mac OS X 10.5 or above, and an Intel processor now with PowerPC support in v1.3!


----------



## broad

Lars said:


> This didn't happen in my case.


no kidding? its happened on 2 machines so far and i would swear in a court of law it wasn't on before

i could be on peyote though


----------



## imactheknife

I love Lion so far. I love Gestures in Safari, and the news spaces idea. It seems a lot more speedy than SL.


----------



## groovetube

man I'm going to have a tough time waiting out the issues before upgrading.


----------



## imachungry

Super smooth for me so far. I love this upgrade.


----------



## CubaMark

Jim said:


> Is it just me or can applications no longer be moved to the desktop? When I try via drag and drop I end up creating an alias.


Jim, I think Apple had you in mind when they did that. It's true - the default behaviour is to NOT allow you to move things out of the /Applications/ folder (why would anyone want to?).

However - if you're darned and determined to work that way, hold the Command key when you drop it onto the Desktop.

(But again, why?)


----------



## Guest

broad said:


> no kidding? its happened on 2 machines so far and i would swear in a court of law it wasn't on before
> 
> i could be on peyote though


It happened to me here on 2 for 2 machines as well, and fast user switching was not enabled on either before hand. One was an update in place install (on a machine with a single user account), the other was a clean install with no data migration at all.


----------



## Guest

imactheknife said:


> I love Lion so far. I love Gestures in Safari, and the news spaces idea. It seems a lot more speedy than SL.


It feels a lot slower on my machine than Snow Leopard did. SL was extremely snappy, Lion is only semi-snappy at best.


----------



## phuviano

I upgraded a few hours ago. Gestures are like the ipad, so i sort of like it. I can imagine a lot of people hating it. I don't mind the reverse scrolling either. I think lion is quicker, but thats just my opinion.

I don't find launch pad useful at all. Mission control is handy to have. I like how the download icon shows up in every new window you open in safari. Overall, i'm pretty satisfied with lion so far.


----------



## mac_geek

Upgraded my machine from 4GB to 8GB today... super smooth.

I love doing business with CanadaRAM. (And that's not spam...)


----------



## spiffychristian

rgray said:


> Apparently Scroll Reverser for Mac OS X gives Lion like scrolling on earlier machines.


just downloaded it and put it on my imac. 

i might as well get used to it, even though i don't really want to upgrade to lion anytime soon.

i bought a new macbook pro online on monday the 18th and didn't say "ready for shipment" until about an hour ago tonight. do you think it will ship with lion in a new box and everything, or with snow leopard as i was hoping it would?


----------



## cap10subtext

groovetube said:


> man I'm going to have a tough time waiting out the issues before upgrading.


I think this will be an easy one... I'm already hearing about issues and disappearing features... Frankly I'm starting to think Apple's OS have been going downhill since Leopard. :/ but that might be a bit harsh... And subjective. In fact, just ignore me.


----------



## pm-r

spiffychristian said:


> just downloaded it and put it on my imac.
> 
> i might as well get used to it, even though i don't really want to upgrade to lion anytime soon.
> 
> i bought a new macbook pro online on monday the 18th and didn't say "ready for shipment" until about an hour ago tonight. do you think it will ship with lion in a new box and everything, or with snow leopard as i was hoping it would?


No one is forcing you to "upgrade" to Lion 10.7, but let us know how and what OS X version your new MBP arrives with and if it will be limited to running and booting only Lion.


----------



## Jim

*Dragging apps to desktop*

Thanx CubaMark,

Command drag works. 

Why? Why you ask! 
Because I want to. Why else, man.


----------



## pm-r

cap10subtext said:


> I think this will be an easy one... I'm already hearing about issues and disappearing features... Frankly I'm starting to think Apple's OS have been going downhill since Leopard. :/ but that might be a bit harsh... And subjective. In fact, just ignore me.


Actually I'll agree with you, the recent OS X versions (Leopard +) may have some nice features, but the lack and dropping of AppleTalk in 10.6 affected maybe some users that are still using some quite legacy devices, but the dropping of any Rosetta will affect quite a few as posted on this list alone including myself.

Sure there are methods to get around some of the "dropped" support of the pre-Lion OS X versions, but what really bothers me is Apple's attitude and seemingly disregard of their once famous GUI Interface.

Many of their recent OS X user display use and window display views reminds me of a fog shrouded graveyard with various grey tone gravestone type colors.

Something that the "Mac OS X 10.7 Lion: the Ars Technica review" also seems to point out: Mac OS X 10.7 Lion: the Ars Technica review


----------



## Mr.Tickles

So what do I get for losing the ability to open half of my documents?


----------



## pm-r

Mr.Tickles said:


> So what do I get for losing the ability to open half of my documents?


I don't know, but maybe a BIG eye surprised Kewpie doll???

But seriously, maybe let us know WHAT type of documents and maybe just add a few more details??


----------



## Mr.Tickles

pm-r said:


> I don't know, but maybe a BIG eye surprised Kewpie doll???
> 
> But seriously, maybe let us know WHAT type of documents and maybe just add a few more details??


Literally half of my applications folder are PPC apps. I'm not really minded to re-buy newer versions of software that work perfectly fine right now. Half of these don't even have newer versions because it's a lot of old games that will never get an update.


----------



## a7mc

Mr.Tickles said:


> Literally half of my applications folder are PPC apps.* I'm not really minded to re-buy newer versions of software that work perfectly fine right now*. Half of these don't even have newer versions because it's a lot of old games that will never get an update.


Sooooo.... why would you buy Lion then if your current OS is working perfectly fine right now? Seems like a bit of a double standard to me.

A7


----------



## pm-r

You stated previously that "for losing the ability to open half of my documents...", but "documents" aren't applications, but their contents may/will require appropriate compatible applications to 'open' or use them. And many 'game' stuff often don't even follow the rules and often try and bypass them.

I'm really a bit surprised if you've at least read ANY of recent the posts on this list regarding Mac OS X 10.7 Lion and its lack of Rosetta support to run older PPC applications and possibly any of their associated "document" files.

So, don't blame Lion, Apple or anything else if you ignored all the advice and get your old pre-Lion backup restored back onto your boot drive volume if you want to run some of the PPC applications and any of their associated 'documents'.

But hey, you can have and create one hard drive (partitioned or not) for each Mac OS version your Mac can run with whatever you need on each and boot into whichever one you need to run the applications you want to use. ie: one HD volume or partition for SL or Leopard with all your PPC stuff that they supported with Rosetta, and another volume for you 10.7 Lion stuff.

Just some thoughts... and your choice!!!


----------



## groovetube

cap10subtext said:


> I think this will be an easy one... I'm already hearing about issues and disappearing features... Frankly I'm starting to think Apple's OS have been going downhill since Leopard. :/ but that might be a bit harsh... And subjective. In fact, just ignore me.


I have to agree somewhat too, I've had more crashes, freezes and issues since leopard too. I don't who's fault it is (It's Adobe's fault! I KNOW it is!), but I hope lion is better.

I hear windows 7 runs pretty solidly now


----------



## iMatt

cap10subtext said:


> I think this will be an easy one... I'm already hearing about issues and disappearing features... Frankly I'm starting to think Apple's OS have been going downhill since Leopard. :/ but that might be a bit harsh... And subjective. In fact, just ignore me.


I'e been very happy with Snow Leopard. In my own experience, it's been the most stable and slick Apple OS. 

But I'm definitely in no hurry to install Lion. I'll wait until 10.7.3 or so, or until my next machine (could be a while), or skip it entirely. Just doesn't seem to have anything I really, really need.

And I don't need Rosetta anymore, but I think Apple killed it too quietly. Most people who frequent enthusiast sites were well aware it wasn't in Lion, but many others are getting a nasty surprise. Surely the Lion installer could have scanned the Applications folder for PPC apps and put up a warning that "the following programs are not compatible with Lion" or something like that.


----------



## fjnmusic

Does AppleWorks work in Lion?


----------



## cap10subtext

I think maybe this is frustration built up over a number of issues... Frankly I don't know where to begin. Leopard wasn't the easiest transition, but it happened around the same time as the intel upgrade so things were tough all around. The OS was overlooked for bigger issues. Meanwhile Snow Leopard was the most non-trivial, trivial update ever. With Snow Leopard I've had the following issues:
Killed support for my printer (for no good reason, printer is still good, Lexmark won't make a driver and the 10.3 one they have doesn't work with SL, blame Lexmark if you want but I know they willfully discarded printer support to change the footprint of SL).
Latency in digitizer so every app I build with live video (it's what I do for a living) has an unpredictable 1-2 frame lag which causes hell randomly.
Strange bug introduced in most of my programs because the function to load a Dylib changed between 10.5 and 10.6 so the path name no longer worked.
Constant finder crashes, usually because of quick look icon generation.
Back to my Mac issues between my Leopard machines and my SL laptop (transferring files seems to not work more than it ever does).
All my archived school projects in Shockwave produce an error that the browser has to be restarted in 32bit mode (this one's probably Adobe's fault).
Basically, there are so few of the proverbial buttons that could upset me about a Mac OS and Snow Leopard hit every one of them with a hammer. And not upgrading wasn't an option because of iOS development.
Of course I understand that some of this is to do with the move to 64bit. Like for example not being able to install lion on my perfectly good 2 ghz Core Duo MacBook (missed the core 2 Duo by a week. A week! Learned the hardest way possible to watch the product refresh like a hawk.)

Top it all off and now my trackpad on my 2 year old MacBook pro is mucked up and I keep getting the service battery warning.

So I'll admit, some of this is unfounded, some just bad luck, but ever since Snow Leopard and the iOS4 for 3G update I've been unable to trust Apple's decisions about their OS's. I think they are getting sloppy and a bit too cavalier with their shortened update cycles.

Sorry for the rant.


----------



## screature

pm-r said:


> ...Something that the "Mac OS X 10.7 Lion: the Ars Technica review" also seems to point out: Mac OS X 10.7 Lion: the Ars Technica review


Wow what a comprehensive review pm-r! I just went through all 19 pages  relatively quickly. I Bookmarked it so I can go back to it for a more in depth reading. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## screature

cap10subtext said:


> I think maybe this is frustration built up over a number of issues... Frankly I don't know where to begin...
> 
> Sorry for the rant.


I don't think I have ever had a single crash or freeze with SL. For me it has been completely stable and reliable. Best OS experience I have ever had.


----------



## spiffychristian

screature said:


> I don't think I have ever had a single crash or freeze with SL. For me it has been completely stable and reliable. Best OS experience I have ever had.


Same here. I love Snow Leopard and it's been more than perfect to me so I'm keeping it while it's still young for a while. I'm happy where I'm at


----------



## SINC

fjnmusic said:


> Does AppleWorks work in Lion?


No Rosetta = No Appleworks


----------



## WestWeb

I installed Lion on an external to play with. I have to say I love the new gestures, and the snappiness and feel of the new UI is slick, but seriously lacking in color. 

Three finger drag seems to be one of the less talked about, but more significant changes to gestures. Now, instead of double-tap-drag to move windows/folders/files around, you just point and three finger drag the item. Same with highlighting text: three finger drag instead of double-tap-drag. I'll definitely be ditching my mouse for a trackpad when I do eventually switch.

Problems to speak of: my fans started to sound like a slo-mo Indy race just browsing through finder windows, and battery life seems to be at about a third of what it is on SL.


----------



## CubaMark

WestWeb, as mentioned in other threads, the initial battery life drain and overall system sluggishness is probably due to Spotlight rebuilding its index. Walk away for an hour and see what it's like then.


----------



## pm-r

screature said:


> Wow what a comprehensive review pm-r! I just went through all 19 pages  relatively quickly. I Bookmarked it so I can go back to it for a more in depth reading. Thanks for sharing.


Thanks screature, I'm still going back to it occasionally to try and comprehend all the details, even though I probably won't be installing Leopard for a while, at least not as my main working OS. It'll go onto a spare cloned external drive when I do install it.


----------



## maximusbibicus

Took the plunge, no issues yet, Made me update Java when i tried to use PS3 Media Server. Doing the rest of the updates now. 

The gestures are really intriguing, but no laptop, so i can't try em. 

I am noticing significant improvements with Safari's overall speed. Really dig that. Generally, just the expected small tweak in "snappy"-nes.


----------



## sergeg1

*Tried to install Lion*

Yep.. tried to install on my iMac, but Apple Store said: "We could not complete your purchase: Mac OS X 10.7 Lion requires a Core 2 Duo, Core i3, Core i5, Core i7, or Xeon processor."

So, swent to one of my two Apple Laptops and found that one had a Core 2 Duo. Tried to buy it, only to now be told that Lion requires 2 gb of Ram. I only have 1.5 on that machine.

I wonder what else Lion 'requires' before one qualifies?

Am not getting a new machine or more ram, so I guess Lion is not for every Mac.


----------



## monokitty

sergeg1 said:


> Yep.. tried to install on my iMac, but Apple Store said: "We could not complete your purchase: Mac OS X 10.7 Lion requires a Core 2 Duo, Core i3, Core i5, Core i7, or Xeon processor."
> 
> So, swent to one of my two Apple Laptops and found that one had a Core 2 Duo. Tried to buy it, only to now be told that Lion requires 2 gb of Ram. I only have 1.5 on that machine.
> 
> I wonder what else Lion 'requires' before one qualifies?
> 
> Am not getting a new machine or more ram, so I guess Lion is not for every Mac.


-Mac computer with an Intel Core 2 Duo, Core i3, Core i5, Core i7, or Xeon processor
-2GB of memory
-OS X v10.6.6 or later (v10.6.8 recommended)
-7GB of available space
-Some features require an Apple ID; terms apply.


----------



## pm-r

sergeg1 said:


> Yep.. tried to install on my iMac, but Apple Store said: "We could not complete your purchase: Mac OS X 10.7 Lion requires a Core 2 Duo, Core i3, Core i5, Core i7, or Xeon processor."
> 
> So, swent to one of my two Apple Laptops and found that one had a Core 2 Duo. Tried to buy it, only to now be told that Lion requires 2 gb of Ram. I only have 1.5 on that machine.
> 
> I wonder what else Lion 'requires' before one qualifies?
> 
> Am not getting a new machine or more ram, so I guess Lion is not for every Mac.



I have received quite a few local 'Mac Help' calls with just such a question from some Mac users that just like to "keep up" with the latest Mac OS X version.

And I just cannot understand why Apple can't update the info and properly list the complete Lion's 10.7 'System Requirements' just as Lars provided in their 'Apple Store' access that just says, and in small print as well:

"Requirements
Intel, Mac OS X 10.6.6 or later"

Pretty lame Apple and pretty minimal listed specified minimal system requirement specs listed for any Mac OS 10.6.8 at the outset user to know otherwise that they can't download or install Lion and maybe save the user a lot of wasted time and frustration!!


----------



## imobile

My iMac update was flawless!
My MBP a story from hell ~ firstly Mac Store says I have download, but MBP goes into grey spin mode... so it takes 30 mins to reboot with Snow Leopard disk ... very, very unimpressive saw is so called Mac App experience! Bring back the bloody CD's/DVD'S Stevo!!


----------



## Tech Elementz

imobile said:


> My iMac update was flawless!
> My MBP a story from hell ~ firstly Mac Store says I have download, but MBP goes into grey spin mode... so it takes 30 mins to reboot with Snow Leopard disk ... very, very unimpressive saw is so called Mac App experience! Bring back the bloody CD's/DVD'S Stevo!!


They will be making LIon USB's at the Apple Store later on this year for $60....


----------



## Andrew Pratt

> Am not getting a new machine or more ram, so I guess Lion is not for every Mac.


Regardless of Lion you really should add more Ram to your computer...1.5 is tiny and you would see significant gains by adding more even if you remain running Tiger/Leopard/Snow Leo etc.


----------



## imobile

*My call for CD's/DVD's were of frustration!*



Tech Elementz said:


> They will be making LIon USB's at the Apple Store later on this year for $60....



I don't really need a DVD. The Store says it 'Lion' is indeed installed!
( when I access Mac Store from the MBP ~ Ver 10.6.8 
Model ID MacBookPro4,1
Core 2, 2,5GHz, 2 GB memory etc etc! So meets min criteria!
Indeed there is a 'Install Mac OS X Lion.app in my Applications folder!

However for some reason ...even after running Cocktail, then Disk Utility after booting from Snow Leopard disk, the installer will not install.

The frustrating thing is NO message, just grey screen, spinning , spinning, spinning...nada!

As said, on my Core i7 iMac with 8 GB of ram, was flawless upgrade!


----------



## sergeg1

*Tried to install Lion - II*

So, my saga continues: First Apple Store Online told me I cannot install on my iMac Intel Dual Core, I need Intel Dual Core 2.

So I take out my first laptop, and then Apple Store Online says: Nope, you gots only 1.5 gb memory, need 2 gb memory so no go.

Then I bring in my other laptop, MacBook Pro Intel Core Dual 2, with 2 gb memory... YEAH, I gotcha now Apple Store Online!!

YES... here I go, it downloads, does all the download, starts to install, then after that 45 minute download, and getting ready, I see a new system message: the system thinks the hard drive needs to be formatter OS Extended (journaling), please allow journalling or reformat using Disk Utility.

I back up every thing again just to be sure.

I open Disk Utility and see that the HD is formatted OS Extended already!

I can't reformat the drive I am using to install Lion obviously.

I'd have to use Snow Leopard, using Disk Utility from the disk to erase, re-install Snow Leopard, do all the upgrades and then download Lion again?!?!?!

CROCK!!!

I thought this was supposed to e the easiest install OS ever!

Why should I bother with Lion now???


----------



## Kelowna Pete

*Upgrade went smoothly*

Took the plunge with a free upgrade since I got my 27" iMac on 16 Jun. Lost Appleworks, Glimmer and Hypespaces as well as numerous Classic games that I had laying around. Quite content with the new interface and have had no major issue. 

Must thank CANADA RAM for their response to a failed memory module when I upgraded to 16GBs.


----------



## screature

sergeg1 said:


> S*o, my saga continues: First Apple Store Online told me I cannot install on my iMac Intel Dual Core, I need Intel Dual Core 2.
> 
> So I take out my first laptop, and then Apple Store Online says: Nope, you gots only 1.5 gb memory, need 2 gb memory so no go.*
> 
> Then I bring in my other laptop, MacBook Pro Intel Core Dual 2, with 2 gb memory... YEAH, I gotcha now Apple Store Online!!
> 
> YES... here I go, it downloads, does all the download, starts to install, then after that 45 minute download, and getting ready, I see a new system message: the system thinks the hard drive needs to be formatter OS Extended (journaling), please allow journalling or reformat using Disk Utility.
> 
> I back up every thing again just to be sure.
> 
> I open Disk Utility and see that the HD is formatted OS Extended already!
> 
> I can't reformat the drive I am using to install Lion obviously.
> 
> I'd have to use Snow Leopard, using Disk Utility from the disk to erase, re-install Snow Leopard, do all the upgrades and then download Lion again?!?!?!
> 
> CROCK!!!
> 
> I thought this was supposed to e the easiest install OS ever!
> 
> Why should I bother with Lion now???


The first two failures were due to well publicized system requirements for you to be able to install Lion so you can't blame Apple for those 2. The failure to install on the 3rd system is indeed frustrating, not sure why that would happen...

If you are happy with SL I would just stick with it for a revision or 2 of Lion, i.e. 10.7. 1 or .2 or even .3 and give it another go then if you are still interested in Lion.


----------



## okcomputer

Two issues thus far:

1. Had my first crash. System locked up. Mouse would move around the screen but no click response or keyboard response either. Had to do a hard reset. It happened after I clicked to watch a flash video in Chrome, so I'm guessing it was an issue with Flash or Chrome. 

2. Icon weirdness. Both in the dock and Launchpad. I will rearrange or delete icons and they will come back or return to their original position. In the dock sometimes there are two of them! I opened Launchpad today and 5 icons were not where I left them. 

Strange.


----------



## Tech Elementz

okcomputer said:


> Two issues thus far:
> 
> 1. Had my first crash. System locked up. Mouse would move around the screen but no click response or keyboard response either. Had to do a hard reset. It happened after I clicked to watch a flash video in Chrome, so I'm guessing it was an issue with Flash or Chrome.
> 
> 2. Icon weirdness. Both in the dock and Launchpad. I will rearrange or delete icons and they will come back or return to their original position. In the dock sometimes there are two of them! I opened Launchpad today and 5 icons were not where I left them.
> 
> Strange.


If you do ever have any other lockups, there is an option to ask your Mac to auto restart... Which I think is really nice to have.


----------



## Guest

sergeg1 said:


> YES... here I go, it downloads, does all the download, starts to install, then after that 45 minute download, and getting ready, I see a new system message: the system thinks the hard drive needs to be formatter OS Extended (journaling), please allow journalling or reformat using Disk Utility.


You probably don't have to reformat to enable journalling. Even if your drive is formatted as MacOS Extended (journalled) there's a way to disable journaling on the volume. I remember that a couple of years ago that was supposed to be some sort of fix for something, but I don't remember what it was ... there's a way to turn journalling back on in Disk Utility without having to reformat your drive, think it's just a menu option from the File menu. If not I know there's a custom toolbar button for it as well. It sounds like at some point Journalling was manually turned off on your drive.

As pointed out by a previous poster, the other 2 requirements (in fact all three) are listed in the requirements for Lion so they are not really a surprise if you read any of those.


----------



## pm-r

Disk Utility in OS 10.6.8 still allows one to 'enable journaling' if it happened to get disabled.

In my case the green 'Enable Journaling' icon is dimmed as my volumes are already journaled.

Pictures and some info available at Why and how to enable journaling on HFS Drobo volumes?


----------



## Tech Elementz

^^^^


----------



## pm-r

Tech Elementz said:


> ^^^^


OK, so call me lazy for not including a screen shot.  

And I gather the one you provided is with OS 10.7 Lion and the icons just seem to get paler and paler with every new Mac OS??

Oh and BTW: what an original name for your hard drive — 'Macintosh HD'!!!


----------



## Digikid

Hey my HDD is named the same. May as well keep it real. LOL!!

I am having Wifi issues. It appears that the only way to get a stable hold on my network is to turn Airport off then on again.

Ah well....


----------



## Tech Elementz

pm-r said:


> OK, so call me lazy for not including a screen shot.
> 
> And I gather the one you provided is with OS 10.7 Lion and the icons just seem to get paler and paler with every new Mac OS??
> 
> Oh and BTW: what an original name for your hard drive — 'Macintosh HD'!!!


I was doing that so I could direct my picture with your post. I would of added text to my post, but I noticed you already posted the fact that you could enable journaling via Disk Utility... In the end, I was sort of lazy, not you. 

I actually reinstalled Snow Leapord On Friday with the HD Name: Mac OS X HD. But then I renamed it back to Macintosh HD. It sounds better...


----------



## Tech Elementz

Digikid said:


> Hey my HDD is named the same. May as well keep it real. LOL!!
> 
> I am having Wifi issues. It appears that the only way to get a stable hold on my network is to turn Airport off then on again.
> 
> Ah well....


Off and On always help somethings...


----------



## imobile

*Here we are ...48 hours later*



imobile said:


> My iMac update was flawless!
> My MBP a story from hell ~ firstly Mac Store says I have download, but MBP goes into grey spin mode... so it takes 30 mins to reboot with Snow Leopard disk ... very, very unimpressive saw is so called Mac App experience! Bring back the bloody CD's/DVD'S Stevo!!


My iMac Core i7 installed Lion just like Steve said!
Perfect!
And it Purrs!
My MBP ( Nov 2008?) refuses to come 'alive' after the install. Just sits there with idiotic grey screen and spins and spins and spins under the Apple Logo? Been spinning for over an hour.... time for a Cab Sav! Maybe pour some Grapes of Wrath over it!


----------



## imobile

*I cannot believe after all this time .... re Lion!*



imobile said:


> My iMac Core i7 installed Lion just like Steve said!
> Perfect!
> And it Purrs!
> My MBP ( Nov 2008?) refuses to come 'alive' after the install. Just sits there with idiotic grey screen and spins and spins and spins under the Apple Logo? Been spinning for over an hour.... time for a Cab Sav! Maybe pour some Grapes of Wrath over it!




Lion was ANNOUNCED months and months ago!
I have a 15.4" MBP that has EVERY update!
It has been 'maintained' via Cocktail several times a week!
I've run Disk Utility in 'Snow Leopard' boot mode....

All is supposedly AOK!
Yet, despite the Lion Install APP being in App Folder... despite it supposedly installing with NO error messages... TWO hours later it spins with Apple Logo on grey Screen!

This IS NOT GOOD!
In fact it is the ****s!

Yah Am pissed off...now for THIRD time have to boot it from Snow Leopard DVD ...wait eons for the process to begin, then select my 10.6.8. Folder as my start up! Not good Steve!


AND the M something F...still spins some half hour after update..three hours after NON 'install'?


----------



## MacDoc

How full is your hard drive?

••••

Maybe covered off before but two finger visual scroll back through the history is kinda cool in Safari. Caught me by surprise.


----------



## imobile

MacDoc said:


> How full is your hard drive?
> 
> ••••
> 
> Maybe covered off before but two finger visual scroll back through the history is kinda cool in Safari. Caught me by surprised.


G;day
Tis 
50%!
I deleted the biggest file..iPhoto!


----------



## MacDoc

How full was it before?

Did you try rebooting with the shift key down ( Safe Boot )


----------



## imobile

MacDoc said:


> How full was it before?
> 
> Did you try rebooting with the shift key down ( Safe Boot )


I see where you are coming from!
Probably valid observation!
I
It was 'overloaded', close to 1GB left when opted to delete my iPhoto ( yah I shoot in Nikon Raw! ...)

I'd probably just do 'reformat' except have the Canadian Charts 'secure' are probably at root?
I use charts via Mac ENC for sailing!

After all...three hours later, still SPINNING!


----------



## imobile

MacDoc said:


> How full was it before?
> 
> Did you try rebooting with the shift key down ( Safe Boot )


Still SPINS...
I guess only option is to REFORMAT!
Do believe that is a 'lousy' way to upgrade!


----------



## chas_m

As a fellow Victoria, I don't mean to be blunt, but your problems with Lion are pretty clearly YOUR fault.

You had **1 GB** of free space left when you tried to install a 4.8GB operating system update, and then act surprised when things don't go smoothly.

Your system shouldn't have been operating properly BEFORE you tried this .. 1GB is waaaaaaay too little space for OS X to operate efficiently. I would say that you need AT LEAST somewhere around 12GB of free space at *all* times in order to maintain normal function, and really a lot more is a lot better idea.

I'm glad you cleared up some space, NOW the reinstall should go more smoothly and you'll probably be amazed at the speed improvement (hint: it's not coming from Lion). Your hard drive (should it survive all this trauma) will thank you for "unclogging" it.


----------



## imobile

*No , no , no!*



chas_m said:


> As a fellow Victoria, I don't mean to be blunt, but your problems with Lion are pretty clearly YOUR fault.
> 
> You had **1 GB** of free space left when you tried to install a 4.8GB operating system update, and then act surprised when things don't go smoothly.
> 
> Your system shouldn't have been operating properly BEFORE you tried this .. 1GB is waaaaaaay too little space for OS X to operate efficiently. I would say that you need AT LEAST somewhere around 12GB of free space at *all* times in order to maintain normal function, and really a lot more is a lot better idea.
> 
> I'm glad you cleared up some space, NOW the reinstall should go more smoothly and you'll probably be amazed at the speed improvement (hint: it's not coming from Lion). Your hard drive (should it survive all this trauma) will thank you for "unclogging" it.



Sorry ...was poorly written post by me!!

I did not have !GB when attempted the install.
I have had Macs for 16 + years 
I ran my space down to only 1GB when attempted to retrieve photos from Time Machine ( raw files)
The 'restore' led to that...but another story!
Once I retrieved the sought after 'raw' files from TM, and transferred them to my iMac, I deleted the whole old iPhoto library from the MBP!

So, my MBP now had over 100 GB of so called free space!
And I even 'erased' that Free Space in Disk Utility whilst booted from SN Disk!

So...that ain't the problem mate!


----------



## chas_m

Okay, sorry I misunderstood, and of course I'm sorry you're having a hard time taming this Lion. (sorry, couldn't resist).

FWIW, I waited a few days, checked to make sure that my core programs would all work beforehand, did a Diskwarrior run and full backups (both clone and Time Machine, oh and I copied the installer file to a DVD. THEN I ran the Lion installer.

So far, so good. Turned off the "natural" scrolling for now, may give that another chance when I get a Magic Trackpad. Love the "new" dashboard, lots of nice little cosmetic touches and a few preference tweaks and now I'm like "what's the big deal?"


----------



## imobile

*Careful reading now !*



chas_m said:


> As a fellow Victoria, I don't mean to be blunt, but your problems with Lion are pretty clearly YOUR fault.
> 
> You had **1 GB** of free space left when you tried to install a 4.8GB operating system update, and then act surprised when things don't go smoothly.
> 
> Your system shouldn't have been operating properly BEFORE you tried this .. 1GB is waaaaaaay too little space for OS X to operate efficiently. I would say that you need AT LEAST somewhere around 12GB of free space at *all* times in order to maintain normal function, and really a lot more is a lot better idea.
> 
> I'm glad you cleared up some space, NOW the reinstall should go more smoothly and you'll probably be amazed at the speed improvement (hint: it's not coming from Lion). Your hard drive (should it survive all this trauma) will thank you for "unclogging" it.




I had ONLY 1GB left when opted to delete my IPhoto!

Even some Victorians realize that 3.98 GB will not squeeze into 1GB space eh? ...despite their driving skills!


----------



## imobile

*No worries....*



chas_m said:


> Okay, sorry I misunderstood, and of course I'm sorry you're having a hard time taming this Lion. (sorry, couldn't resist).
> 
> FWIW, I waited a few days, checked to make sure that my core programs would all work beforehand, did a Diskwarrior run and full backups (both clone and Time Machine, oh and I copied the installer file to a DVD. THEN I ran the Lion installer.
> 
> So far, so good. Turned off the "natural" scrolling for now, may give that another chance when I get a Magic Trackpad. Love the "new" dashboard, lots of nice little cosmetic touches and a few preference tweaks and now I'm like "what's the big deal?"


Just hope this attempt to install works!
As said, no problem on iMac.
Meanwhile, have a look at yesterday's pic....was one of those special Sunday evenings!


A Tsehum Harbour ( Sidney, BC ) at #yyj sky! At the end of on... on Twitpic


----------



## CubaMark

The download took... hours for me. Which is odd, since usually I have ridiculously fast download speeds here in Zacatecas (after years of fighting with the ineptitude that is MegaCable). 

I used the procedure to create a stand-alone installer on a USB drive, and installed Lion to an old external drive (a little Western Digital 250 gig mini-USB drive) in order to test it out. I have been concerned that the stock 2-gigs of RAM in my late-2008 Aluminum MacBook (non-Pro) would be insufficient.

Well... initial verdict is that 2 gigs will be more than tolerable. The Finder and overall interface is very snappy. System Preferences on my 10.6.8 system is an exercise in wait... wait... wait for things to happen. Lion pounces, man!

It may very well be due to years of system-migrated-cruft that I've been unable to clean out despite multiple attempts with Onyx, SnowLeopard Cache Cleaner, Cocktail, etc.... so when I do migrate to Lion I'll be wiping, doing a clean install, and then be very careful as to what apps and system-level utilities (if any) I bring over.

Not to worry, CanadaRAM  - I still intend to max out the RAM on this thing. Safari 5.1 is an IMMENSE improvement over 5.05... in that it no longer totally locks up and the new sandboxing or process separation or whatever seems able to handle my insane number of concurrently-open tabs.... but I think Lion (and I) deserve to be the best we can be :heybaby:

So - those of you with even the most basic Core 2 Duo processors - it appears you need not fear the Lion. It's one tame cat.


----------



## MacDoc

> had ONLY 1GB left when opted to delete my IPhoto!
> 
> Even some Victorians realize that 3.98 GB will not squeeze into 1GB space eh? ...despite their driving skills!


what that meant was you had a big time fragmented drive and zippo freespace = big time issues especially with a major OS switch.


----------



## freeboater

Does it keep your boot camp partition?


----------



## imobile

*Re the Zippo Free Space ...*



MacDoc said:


> what that meant was you had a big time fragmented drive and zippo freespace = big time issues especially with a major OS switch.



That occurred in days BEFORE I downloaded the Lion Installer App of 3.78 GB. It sits there in my Applications Folder!

I ran the drive down to near 'zippo free space' when attempting to retrieve some raw Nikon files which I downloaded to my MBP in Oz last Jan/Feb from Time Machine as I wanted to move the raw files to my IMac.

When I hit near 'zippo free space' I transferred the 'recovered' Raw Files off the MBP, creating oodles of 'space'.
I then booted from Install Snow Leopard disk, used Disk Utility, re installed SL
and applied the update combo to bring it up to date.
I know have 100 + GB of 'free space', which I also 'erased' with Disk Utility!


It was then, and only then that I downloaded the Lion App ( was relatively fast as have Shaw Extreme ) and there it sits , all 3.78 GB. 

I've tried several times to install it...it goes through a 3 minute + install process, says it will restart in 30 seconds ( with NO error messages) and restarts and spins and spins and spins . Last night I let it spin for hours, to no avail.


So have to re boot using SL disk, select 10.68 as my Start Up and all is fine in SL!
I suspect my MBP is same model as Cuba Marks ~ Model ID MacBookPro4.1, Intel Core 2Duo, 2.5 GHz, 2GB.

Maybe the Lion File is incomplete and or corrupt?
Is 3.78 GB the correct size?

Would be nice to have both iMac and MBP on same 'cat' page!

Meanwhile, the MBP whizzes along on Snow Leopard.


----------



## Paddy

*Spelling/auto correct*

To anyone who, like mguertin, is bothered by the autocorrect feature, it CAN be turned off in the system prefs. Go to Language & Text and click on the Text tab. The autocorrect feature can be turned off by unpicking the box at the top of that window. Done.


----------



## Guest

Paddy said:


> To anyone who, like mguertin, is bothered by the autocorrect feature, it CAN be turned off in the system prefs. Go to Language & Text and click on the Text tab. The autocorrect feature can be turned off by unpicking the box at the top of that window. Done.


Yes, and of note you also have to quit and re-launch any apps for the change to be picked up.


----------



## Paddy

*Scrollbars...*

I'm just plowing through the ArsTechnica review now and one thing struck me - the screen shot and discussion of the scroll bars doesn't match what I see on my MBP. I see the same scroll bars, but they're all in their own "alleys" - and they certainly don't fade in or out. I've tried the same Finder view of the Applications folder he shows, and my scrollbars are in alleys - not "overlay" scroll bars like the screen shot. 

Well...it seems he neglects to mention that there are preferences that can affect this and what you see may depend on your input device as well. Check out the Preferences->General and then try the different options. If you set the preference to show the scroll bars "when scrolling" you will see the behaviour he describes. I didn't change anything and the default appears to be "automatically based on input device" - and I see the same scrollbars with alleys with or without my mouse. However, it should be noted that my MBP hasn't got the glass trackpad. It does two finger scrolling, but doesn't do some of the fancier gestures.


----------



## groovetube

mguertin did you upgrade? For some reason I'm inclined to go early, but too many projects on the go I'd want to be sure CS5.5 worked well. I don't really use printers etc much.

I use mostly textmate now for coding so I doubt that's an issue.


----------



## Guest

groovetube said:


> mguertin did you upgrade? For some reason I'm inclined to go early, but too many projects on the go I'd want to be sure CS5.5 worked well. I don't really use printers etc much.
> 
> I use mostly textmate now for coding so I doubt that's an issue.


Just on my MBP, not my main machine. I use mostly Coda these days and I knew it worked so as long as I can code while travelling I figured why not  I used Textmate for a long time but the lack of a proper open from remote in it killed it for me as I need to do that for a lot of my work (I tried a few of the solutions but none suited my needs very well). Did they ever release 2.0?


----------



## groovetube

I don't know, I never checked . But I love using it for classes and php

Mow if they made it work on an iPad I could get some more use out of this damn auto-correcting annoyance pad.


----------



## pm-r

Hmmm... It seems that we'll need a new "Just installed Lion upgrade" subject thread like "Just installed Lion upgrade - COMBO 10.7.2 Update" or some such as it seems such a versions was released to developers some days ago.

Interesting that the "MacOSXUpdCombo10.7.2.pkg" 359.8 MB file Apple released is dated Thursday, July 21, 2011 6:10 PM.
Isn't that just a day after the official Lion 10.7 public release???

And then I read that Apple provided, sold and downloaded 1 million copies of Lion 10.7 in the first day alone to users, and at $30.00 a pop, that should provide enough money to pay for the developers/programmers salaries I would think.


----------



## Tech Elementz

pm-r said:


> Hmmm... It seems that we'll need a new "Just installed Lion upgrade" subject thread like "Just installed Lion upgrade - COMBO 10.7.2 Update" or some such as it seems such a versions was released to developers some days ago.
> 
> Interesting that the "MacOSXUpdCombo10.7.2.pkg" 359.8 MB file Apple released is dated Thursday, July 21, 2011 6:10 PM.
> Isn't that just a day after the official Lion 10.7 public release???
> 
> And then I read that Apple provided, sold and downloaded 1 million copies of Lion 10.7 in the first day alone to users, and at $30.00 a pop, that should provide enough money to pay for the developers/programmers salaries I would think.


Assume the fact that they started working on bug fixes... Lion was already prepared for launch.... As soon as it launched, they probably started working on bug fixes... However, 10.6.2 developer release was released I think a couple of days after the Lion launch...


----------



## keebler27

I've installed lion only on my macbook pro and haven't played with it too much, but here are my initial thoughts:

- install was incredibly simple. It took some time to dload, but in reality, it was a freekin' OS install - not just an app. That blows my mind away. Especially b/c I recently installed windows 7 ultimate on 1 of my mac pros and due to the install and HAVING TO REBOOT alot during the process, even though that install was shorter, it was more of a pain in the a.. Lion took longer, but only b/c of the dload. the rest of the process was significantly far less clicks and user time needed

- gestures - LOVE IT! going to take some time to get used to, but surfing websites now feels cumbersome on my mac towers.

- mission control and the new version of spaces will also take some time, but I think will save time in the long run

- i don't mind the new mail and ical. i like them actually

- airdrop looks neat, but again, it's not installed on anything else so i haven't been able to try it

- i'm very curious to see how it sets up on my mac pro wrt multiple screens for apps. i have multiple windows open all the time on different screens. is this going to be an issue? I have no way of knowing or trying until i install.

- still blown away by the price. again, especially since i just paid $199 after taxes for windows 7 (which looks and feels just like winxp for crying out loud!!!)

go apple go! 

Cheers,
Keebler


----------



## Guest

keebler27 said:


> - i'm very curious to see how it sets up on my mac pro wrt multiple screens for apps. i have multiple windows open all the time on different screens. is this going to be an issue? I have no way of knowing or trying until i install.


If you want to use apps in "full screen" mode you'll be disappointed as when they go full screen they blank out all your other screens with the linen background ... otherwise they seem to work the same as they did in SL. I haven't tried things extensively on my multi-screen machine yet, just booted off of an external for a couple of minutes and to see if it would recognize all my hardware (it didn't). Not sure how the new spaces replacement works with multiple screens, I didn't have time to test that out.


----------



## MacDoc

A few things are broken web wise......cannot log in properly to TDFX trading desk.

Kindle appears not to register properly.

Not sure I'm fond of the way mail handles find - it's better in some ways and not in others.

For instance if I type in shannon it gives me everything - I can't restrict it to "from" tho I can so in a second step but it's still showing everything 










so I cannot get it to only show messages from Shannon which could be done before

on the other hand it responds to a search "shannon cairns" and that is a big improvement tho it does not include messages From Shannon in that search result.


----------



## Guest

MacDoc said:


> Kindle appears not to register properly.


My Kindle app appears to be working ok here (but it was an upgrade and it was already registered ok in SL).


----------



## basic.works

*Lion upgrade not so smooth for me*



MacDaddy68 said:


> Thought some of you might like to know how it went.
> 
> Smooth sailing really. As I bought my iMac July 2nd, I was able to use the Up-to-date web page upgrade program without a hitch. The download (and I have a 15Mbps cable connection) took about an hour - and the install (over a fresh and clean Snow Leopard mind you) was about 20 mins :clap:
> 
> I have to say, so far, I'm impressed. Now to start migrating... :yikes:


I copied as many of my files, video, music and pictures and ran out of room on external HD BU ran out of space. I completely forgot to back up my keychain, address book, emails and other odds and ends.

After upgrading to Lion, as soon as I click to log a "change password" drop down menu appeared. The clue for the password is for a temporary password I had set up about a year or 2 ago. It will not allow me access. I logged into the System Administrator account, as directed by an Apple tech support person, and we tried to alter the password for the account, tried to recreate it, etc. Hours and 3 techs, I'm no closer to access it. I'm told they never heard of something like this ever happening but, if I recall correctly, I had a similar issue when I loaded Snow Leopard.

I anyone knows how to take ownership of an account without requiring the keychain or said account password... Please!!! feel free to give some input. I have created another user account and am able to log into it without hassle and likewise for the System Admin.

I have:
iMac, 17" late 2006
2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4 GB ( 2 x 2 GB) 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM
ATI Radeon X1600 128 MB
1 TB SATA Disk (Near half full)


----------



## basic.works

mrhud said:


> Too bad I won't be able to install it on my older 17" iMac from 2006. Time to get a new iMac I guess


Direct from the Apple support team: Yes you can install it, I did and none of the 3 techs I spoke with said there should be any problems. I have an issue with accessing my previously existing account but a newly created one is working fine. A touch pad or touchscreen is not required.


----------



## monokitty

basic.works said:


> Direct from the Apple support team: Yes you can install it, I did and none of the 3 techs I spoke with said there should be any problems. I have an issue with accessing my previously existing account but a newly created one is working fine. A touch pad or touchscreen is not required.


Lion requires a Core 2 Duo or better processor. If his iMac is less than a C2D, which it probably is, it can't be installed. It has nothing do with having a 'touch pad' or 'touchscreen.'


----------



## MacDoc

> My Kindle app appears to be working ok here (but it was an upgrade and it was already registered ok in SL).


good to know - possible it's unique as I am working on a clone of the registered device but with Lion - thought I could separately register this device.
Kobo handles it - Kindle does not.....not a deal breaker.....there are a few others that might be .....Herald for one.


----------



## basic.works

I only intended to say that I'd hope I wouldn't have any problems with those. My issue is not the overall installation. I'm using it as we speak and have not had any trouble. My "beef" is that someway, when it was done the installation of Lion OS, my password got reset to an older one, or something. I'm now unable to access my account where all my software licenses, address book, key chain, etc. are located.

I want to figure out a means to regain ownership of that account by somehow bypassing the password issue.


----------



## MX-V

basic.works said:


> I want to figure out a means to regain ownership of that account by somehow bypassing the password issue.


If you still have a user with admin privilege, you can use passwd to reset the password.

In a Terminal window, type:

sudo passwd <username>

And follow the prompts.

If you no longer have any admin accounts, this  would be worth a try. Just use passwd on the old account instead of deleting it.

Good luck.


----------



## basic.works

I have both a new admin account as well as the (Lion's default) System Administrator account.
I did as instructed and this was the response

-bash: syntax error near unexpected token `newline'


----------



## imobile

*Lion won't ROAR Still wondering ...is 3.78GB the correct size of the install app?*

After THREE failed attempts to install Lion on MBP over 10.6.8 ...'Lion' supposedly installs, starts restart process and grey SIN SPIN SPIN !

Only way to get MBP functional is to boot from SN install DVD! And THAT takes 45 minutes! 

Once going however, MBP is perfectly functional in SN 10.6.8!

I therefore assume I have 
a ~ a corrupted download file from Apple?
b~ a need to reformat my MBP, do fresh install SN, update then try all over again! Reluctant to do so as I use MBP with Mac ENC and Canadian charts...probably lose my 'encrypted stuff re NDI if I erase the System Folder!

( the Charts DO work on updated to Lion iMac ...but obviously I don;t drag a 27" desktop along sailing!)




imobile said:


> That occurred in days BEFORE I downloaded the Lion Installer App of 3.78 GB. It sits there in my Applications Folder!
> 
> I ran the drive down to near 'zippo free space' when attempting to retrieve some raw Nikon files which I downloaded to my MBP in Oz last Jan/Feb from Time Machine as I wanted to move the raw files to my IMac.
> 
> When I hit near 'zippo free space' I transferred the 'recovered' Raw Files off the MBP, creating oodles of 'space'.
> I then booted from Install Snow Leopard disk, used Disk Utility, re installed SL
> and applied the update combo to bring it up to date.
> I know have 100 + GB of 'free space', which I also 'erased' with Disk Utility!
> 
> 
> It was then, and only then that I downloaded the Lion App ( was relatively fast as have Shaw Extreme ) and there it sits , all 3.78 GB.
> 
> I've tried several times to install it...it goes through a 3 minute + install process, says it will restart in 30 seconds ( with NO error messages) and restarts and spins and spins and spins . Last night I let it spin for hours, to no avail.
> 
> 
> So have to re boot using SL disk, select 10.68 as my Start Up and all is fine in SL!
> I suspect my MBP is same model as Cuba Marks ~ Model ID MacBookPro4.1, Intel Core 2Duo, 2.5 GHz, 2GB.
> 
> Maybe the Lion File is incomplete and or corrupt?
> Is 3.78 GB the correct size?
> 
> Would be nice to have both iMac and MBP on same 'cat' page!
> 
> Meanwhile, the MBP whizzes along on Snow Leopard.


----------



## imobile

*Seems I'm NOT alone ....with this problem!*

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3192437?start=15&tstart=0


Re: Stuck in Lion installation *LIMBO* - disk damaged, disk wont repair, disk is locked, wont revert back to snow leopard
Jul 22, 2011 4:31 PM (in response to KMSR09)
Booting to SL DVD, erased drive, installed SL, installed all the updates, reran install from App Store - worked.

Working fine now.

Too bad it cost me at least 10hours worth of bull-sh1t screwing around!

Deffinelty NOT the experience I was expecting -from apple.

Luckily I have a time machine hard drive I'd be F'ed.

Every attempt to reload straight from 10.7 media was UNSUCESSFUL.

Apple better figure this out quick.







imobile said:


> After THREE failed attempts to install Lion on MBP over 10.6.8 ...'Lion' supposedly installs, starts restart process and grey SIN SPIN SPIN !
> 
> Only way to get MBP functional is to boot from SN install DVD! And THAT takes 45 minutes!
> 
> Once going however, MBP is perfectly functional in SN 10.6.8!
> 
> I therefore assume I have
> a ~ a corrupted download file from Apple?
> b~ a need to reformat my MBP, do fresh install SN, update then try all over again! Reluctant to do so as I use MBP with Mac ENC and Canadian charts...probably lose my 'encrypted stuff re NDI if I erase the System Folder!
> 
> ( the Charts DO work on updated to Lion iMac ...but obviously I don;t drag a 27" desktop along sailing!)


----------



## pm-r

First I'd suggest you make sure that you have a good recent working bootable clone, and then maybe start again — or just stay with using SL for a while. 

Don't create more unnecessary install work for yourself for stuff that you need for your Mac to work.

JFYI: my downloaded Lion that I Zipped and saved before installing as "Install Mac OS X Lion.zip" is showing 3.74 GB. 
I just unzipped it and it's showing as 'Install Mac OS X Lion' v. 1.0.4 and 3.76 GB. 

The included saved contents 'OSInstall.mpkg' installer package file is showing 479 KB. 
That seems a bit small, but that what its Get Info says.

A PRAM Zap and/or SMC reset may help as well and get things working as you want.

Make sure you've done at least some basic Disk Utility repairs and disk verification as a minimum and then maybe try again.

My file size figures are from the App Store Lion upgrade download onto my mid-2007 24" iMac 4GB RAM just in case that makes a difference.


----------



## imobile

*Thanks...*

Seems as as though 'Lion Install App I have sitting in App folder on MBP is the correct size!
Guess, that despite the MBP functioning superbly in 10.6.8, there are deep, underlying, psychological problems with the beast...

Ye who/whom cast first stone....

Tired all the 'tricks' .. re Pram/Disk Utility from SL Disk etc etc... think I'll await the next Lion 10.7.2 or whatever?



pm-r said:


> First I'd suggest you make sure that you have a good recent working bootable clone, and then maybe start again — or just stay with using SL for a while.
> 
> Don't create more unnecessary install work for yourself for stuff that you need for your Mac to work.
> 
> JFYI: my downloaded Lion that I Zipped and saved before installing as "Install Mac OS X Lion.zip" is showing 3.74 GB.
> I just unzipped it and it's showing as 'Install Mac OS X Lion' v. 1.0.4 and 3.76 GB.
> 
> The included saved contents 'OSInstall.mpkg' installer package file is showing 479 KB.
> That seems a bit small, but that what its Get Info says.
> 
> A PRAM Zap and/or SMC reset may help as well and get things working as you want.
> 
> Make sure you've done at least some basic Disk Utility repairs and disk verification as a minimum and then maybe try again.
> 
> My file size figures are from the App Store Lion upgrade download onto my mid-2007 24" iMac 4GB RAM just in case that makes a difference.


----------



## Guest

If it takes you 45 minutes to boot from the SL (assuming that's what you meant, snow leopard) DVD then it sounds like your machine has some other problems going on to be honest. As for the problems people are having it's almost all related to trying to install on a damaged drive that needed repairs I suspect (as was discussed earlier in this thread). Trying to mess around with resizing partitions and creating partitions on a potentially damaged filesystem setup is like playing russian roulette.


----------



## Digikid

Starting to have issues that were not there with Snow Leopard.

1.) MBP freezes at times.
2.) MBP will wake....however the keyboard and trackpad refuses to respond at all.
3.) Wifi signal is lost at times.


Did a test and slapped in a pure Snow Leopard HDD.....worked perfectly. Put back in a Lion HDD....issues. Did a clean install of Lion....still issues. Got a new HDD just in case and clean installed Lion...still issues.

Not impressed anymore. I thought that Apple stood for quality???


----------



## Benito

No issues here yet with Lion. I'm really enjoying the new gestures, it makes my MBP feel like a different machine.


----------



## Lawrence

I've been getting a stuck mouse cursor on occasions,
Even just now when I just clicked over to ehMac,
My mouse refused to move for a few seconds.

Been noticing it more and more lately,
I think it's time for a new update for either Lion or Safari.

Using Safari Version 5.1 (7534.48.3) and Lion 10.7 with 2 gb of ram on a 2.4 Mac Mini,
Mouse is a Logitech wheel usb wired mouse


----------



## pm-r

Lawrence said:


> I've been getting a stuck mouse cursor on occasions,
> Even just now when I just clicked over to ehMac,
> My mouse refused to move for a few seconds.
> 
> Been noticing it more and more lately,
> I think it's time for a new update for either Lion or Safari.
> 
> Using Safari Version 5.1 (7534.48.3) and Lion 10.7 with 2 gb of ram on a 2.4 Mac Mini,
> Mouse is a Logitech wheel usb wired mouse



Contact CanadaRAM ASAP, but unfortunately I think they'll be closing in about 15 minutes.

#1. 2 GB is just not adequate these days except for maybe for just some simple tasks with minimum apps opened. 4 GB at least will make a HUGE difference!!!

#2. Get rid of the Logitech pref pane and any LLC application software as you probably don't even need it.

Some of the Logitech software was renown for its bugginess and gobbling up CPU usage. But use such a mouse with their software installed without any problems.

Get your Mac some more RAM — you'll think it's a new machine!!!


----------



## Lawrence

pm-r said:


> Contact CanadaRAM ASAP, but unfortunately I think they'll be closing in about 15 minutes.
> 
> #1. 2 GB is just not adequate these days except for maybe for just some simple tasks with minimum apps opened. 4 GB at least will make a HUGE difference!!!
> 
> #2. Get rid of the Logitech pref pane and any LLC application software as you probably don't even need it.
> 
> Some of the Logitech software was renown for its bugginess and gobbling up CPU usage. But use such a mouse with their software installed without any problems.
> 
> Get your Mac some more RAM — you'll think it's a new machine!!!


Thanks for the tip, I'll look into more ram.

Also noticed that Safari is a little confused when I drag images from Safari to my desktop,
The images are sometimes saved as text clippings rather than jpg's or png's.
Probably a Lion problem, Never had that problem using Snow Leopard.


----------



## MX-V

basic.works said:


> I did as instructed and this was the response
> 
> -bash: syntax error near unexpected token `newline'



Did you replace <username> with the account's actual name? (ie: sudo passwd joeuser)

Look for it in the "Users" folder.

sudo will ask a password, that would be the one of the account you're currently using. Then passwd will ask a new password for the user you passed to it.

Should look something like this:



Code:


Mac-mini:~ $ sudo passwd jeads2
Password:
Changing password for jeads2.
New password:
Retype new password:
Mac-mini:~ $


Let me know.


----------



## Lawrence

pm-r said:


> Contact CanadaRAM ASAP, but unfortunately I think they'll be closing in about 15 minutes.
> 
> #1. 2 GB is just not adequate these days except for maybe for just some simple tasks with minimum apps opened. 4 GB at least will make a HUGE difference!!!
> 
> #2. Get rid of the Logitech pref pane and any LLC application software as you probably don't even need it.
> 
> Some of the Logitech software was renown for its bugginess and gobbling up CPU usage. But use such a mouse with their software installed without any problems.
> 
> Get your Mac some more RAM — you'll think it's a new machine!!!


I just bought 8 gb's of ram from Macsales, Should get by next friday.


----------



## Tech Elementz

Lawrence said:


> I just bought 8 gb's of ram from Macsales, Should get by next friday.


8 GB's is going to be a huge performance upgrade.... 

Is there any "real" performance upgrade from 4 to 8 GB of ram?


----------



## Lawrence

Tech Elementz said:


> 8 GB's is going to be a huge performance upgrade....
> 
> Is there any "real" performance upgrade from 4 to 8 GB of ram?


I've never had that much ram installed in any of my Mac's before,
But, Since it can be done and it's cheap, I'm doing it.

I can't believe how cheap ram is now.

I remember when 8 mb's of ram in my old Lc475 cost me a kings ransom.


----------



## jamesB

Lawrence said:


> I remember when 8 mb's of ram in my old Lc475 cost me a kings ransom.


I can remember saving up $500 to buy 512K (yes that's kilobytes) of ram, probably around the same period I purchased my very first Harddrive, a huge 20MB for $1100.


----------



## Tech Elementz

jamesB said:


> I can remember saving up $500 to buy 512K (yes that's kilobytes) of ram, probably around the same period I purchased my very first Harddrive, a huge 20MB for $1100.


You know.... With your avatar.... You do look like a rich family...


----------



## screature

Back in the mid 90's when I was a production manager and editor for a small video production and photography company in Ottawa and we moved to an early iteration of a digital editing suite we had to buy two "massive" 10GB SCSI drives for the digitized video at $1100 a pop . My how things have changed in such a relatively short period of time.


----------



## Digikid

jamesB said:


> I can remember saving up $500 to buy 512K (yes that's kilobytes) of ram, probably around the same period I purchased my very first Harddrive, a huge 20MB for $1100.


LOL!!! I remember then. Massive prices. Remember the big huge "Record" Floppy Disks that were around 12 inches or so?

Anyways we are digressing so lets get back on topic here. Has anyone else experienced my findings a page or so back and how to fix them short of waiting for 10.7.x?


----------



## Lawrence

Digikid said:


> LOL!!! I remember then. Massive prices. Remember the big huge "Record" Floppy Disks that were around 12 inches or so?
> 
> Anyways we are digressing so lets get back on topic here. Has anyone else experienced my findings a page or so back and how to fix them short of waiting for 10.7.x?


RAM seems to be the cure all for most of my problems,
2 gb's is most definitely not enough, I can hardly wait to see what 8 gb's does in Lion.

I hope that the next update in Safari will allow me to get rid of the greying effect,
Also, I really don't like getting a revisit to the porn pop ups I had from a previous visit before I last quit.

Just a couple of bugs with Safari that I didn't like, Why can't turn that off?


----------



## rgray

Talking memory prices, check out 9to5mac item:

Everyone should be at 8GB of RAM, here’s how to get there | 9to5Mac | Apple Intelligence

8gig of 1333MHz for $44........ ($2 less for 1066 stuff)


----------



## imobile

*Guess so...*



mguertin said:


> If it takes you 45 minutes to boot from the SL (assuming that's
> what you meant, snow leopard) DVD then it sounds like your machine has some other problems going on to be honest. As for the problems people are having it's almost all related to trying to install on a damaged drive that needed repairs I suspect (as was discussed earlier in this thread). Trying to mess around with resizing partitions and creating partitions on a potentially damaged filesystem setup is like playing russian roulette.


Just FAILED again to install Lion to My MBP!
Created a boot DVD after running Disk Utility from Snow Leopard Install Disk where 'supposedly 'fixed' Permissions and 'Repaired Disk". Even fixed Permissions twice...funny how same ones are 'fixed' again...(hocus pocus???)

For good measure 'ran Onyx' ...
then installed Lion.... but after restart...nothing...no messages, just 45 mins of grey spinning!

So back to Square One?

I just do not understand why , as an operating system , Snow Leopard works so well!
All apps just hum along in normal use ...

BUT!!!! 

IF I try to boot from original SNOW LEOPARD install disk .. that takes a lot of 'noise ... click, oink , whhhhank ,,,silence, fan increases, soft 'wharrrmp' ...silence... longer silence... spinning grey wheel under Apple logo... suddenly...noise...blank screen, shuffle noise... blue...more quick paced shuffle noise...a minute of this... ( CHORUS?) ... another minute...
silence...
ahhh
fan whir.....
more 'shuffle'.... quiet.... then more 'fan whir'...
Long ominous silence...


Suddenly... well after 15 minutes from holding down C.... Mac OS and Language Op screen!

Guess it is time to give up.... erase the HD as all 'utilities' and all the Lions cannot get this f'er going in Lion!

( sheesh...at least I made a boot Lion DVD!)

How to Create & Burn a Bootable Mac OS X Lion Install DVD


----------



## pm-r

Hmmm... as you say, "IF I try to boot from original SNOW LEOPARD install disk...", it sounds like either your MBP, the SL install disk and/or your hard drive is almost FUBAR.

Have you got another drive to use to make or create another volume partition and then use it??

But that's going to be difficult if your SL install disk isn't even working properly. 

Do you have the install disk that came with your MBP that you could try using??


----------



## imobile

*I fear you are onto something!*



pm-r said:


> Hmmm... as you say, "IF I try to boot from original SNOW LEOPARD install disk...", it sounds like either your MBP, the SL install disk and/or your hard drive is almost FUBAR.
> 
> Have you got another drive to use to make or create another volume partition and then use it??
> 
> But that's going to be difficult if your SL install disk isn't even working properly.
> 
> Do you have the install disk that came with your MBP that you could try using??



The Macbook Pro (4.1?) ...late 2008 was fine, even fast in Snow Leopard!
Mainly used it in Mac ENC for sailing and iPhoto/iMovie whilst away from home!
Just thought be great and TIDY to have it and the desktop iMac Core i7 on same system!

So...just erased the HD with Disk Utilty... ( have my 'goodies' in Time Machine) BUT fearfully is taking forever to install Snow Leopard... just now, after eons said install succeeded ...restart! So we will see....

Cross fingers. sip a Cab Sav... but am already looking at available refurbs...

Jeez...

Heard the music
but a BLANK blue screen...this is NOT good!


----------



## Digikid

Lawrence said:


> RAM seems to be the cure all for most of my problems,
> 2 gb's is most definitely not enough, I can hardly wait to see what 8 gb's does in Lion.


Have 4Gigs. Should be more than enough.


----------



## Guest

Yep that sounds a lot like your machine is having some other difficulties, can't blame those on the OS.


----------



## imobile

*Other difficulties?*



mguertin said:


> Yep that sounds a lot like your machine is having some other difficulties, can't blame those on the OS.


For some reason it won't restart after going thru the Lion install.
So I restarted from Snow Leopard DVD , opened Utilities , erased the HD and installed Time Machine backup of July 23! ( for some reason said not enough room to install later back ups??)

So at 0300...let Time Machine do its thing!
Awoke to this message...
Installed 100.2% ( thought my math teacher told me that 100% was it... ( unlike Sport commentators talking of giving 120% !) 
and look at the TIme to complete! Wow!!!

To conclude...Snow Leopard is zipping along!
So Lion can wait for another day ..or two or more!


----------



## Digikid

mguertin said:


> Yep that sounds a lot like your machine is having some other difficulties, can't blame those on the OS.



If you are referring to my post.....then please explain why these problems do not exist on Snow Leopard?


----------



## imobile

*I believe he was possibly responding to my 'trauma' !*



Digikid said:


> If you are referring to my post.....then please explain why these problems do not exist on Snow Leopard?


I agree with you. 
I've 'restored' my MBP to Snow Leopard using SL Instal DVD and thence Time Machine backup from Utility Menu!
My MBP now opens Log In Window in S L..10.6.8 in 22 seconds .
It takes a further 95 seconds once password is entered to allow the Dock to be accessed!
( I do have Net Barrier X, Clam AV'Sentry and Little Snitch starting up, hence the delay.)

Once booted, the MBP is snappy!

Interestingly, Time Machine after the 'erase'/re install' process, now has a 147.93GB back up to perform!

AS for the failure of Lion to install four times from the Apple placed App in Applications and last night, the Boot DVD ( which incidentally took some 18 minutes to supposedly install to restart stage whilst Apple 'install file' in Applications said it was 'installed in four minutes to restart stage!

Of course , after one and half hours of 'restart spinning, I gave up!

Upon reflection, and as my 2010 Core i7 in Mac with 8GB of ram had a fast, flawless update, I believe that the MacBookPro4.1 (mid 2008?) with 2GB of ram should NOT be on the Lion update list!
It might be Core Duo2 but ( always one eh?) I also note that Apple does not include this model for AirDrop ...the unibodies of late 2008 on are required
So until I hear of more success ...or further Lion updates, I'll keep the laptop in the Snow world!


----------



## spiffychristian

Finally got my MBP in the mail on Friday!

I ordered it on the Monday, and Lion came out on the Wedensday. It said shipping 1-3 days, but shipped on the 5th. I figured the delay was because of Lion being released, and it was.

I have no stories of installation issues or anything, but Lion is great!!! I love it!

One thing I don't like it the slow animation when you put windows into fullscreen mode, it feels like it takes 5 seconds, and everything looks fuzzy. Besides that it's great!


----------



## SINC

i took the plunge today and installed Lion on my MBP. So far no real issues, but tomorrow when I put in a full work day will tell the tale. All I have done with it today is open programs I need to see if they work, and dump PPC stuff that won't work. I always knew how much space I had left by simply opening my Macintosh HD. No more of that as Lion makes me go to Disk Utility to find out that information now. That takes twice as long, but if that's all that is going to happen, I can live with it. Not sure what others are talking about with the loss of colour and all being gray. I can't tell the difference from SL.


----------



## Garry

Hmm... I never noticed that the status bar was missing on the finder window and I couldn't see how much space I had left.. grr... I hate apple now! ha Ha kidding.. I just went to view and turned it on again.

The more I use Lion, the more I like it. I can see where some people wouldn't like it if they are stuck in their ways and don't bother looking around, some things are just turned off by default.

And I guess my questions would be for everyone complaining about Lion... didn't you bother to look at the features on the Apple website before buying it? What made you decide to just blindly install the operating system the day it came out? When something like a new OS is coming out, don't most people research it before installing it?


----------



## CubaMark

Just removed the last technical barrier to upgrading to Lion - used the latest (but far from greatest) MailForge (2.2.2) to convert my Eudora library to a format readable in 10.7. I've decided to embrace the Apple ecosystem and go with OS X Mail. MailForge just isn't coming along in anything resembling a product in which one can have any confidence, but it does give me the ability to access my (massive) email archive. And - surprisingly - it's Eudora mailboxes import feature seems to work as advertised (not that I'm going to check every single message in my 60+ mailboxes with messages going back to the early 1990s!).

So - MailForge is there for email. My Eudora folder will be compressed and archived in case I ever need to get into it again.

I'm ready to say goodbye to Adobe CS2 as well - I'm on the Pixelmator bandwagon, anxiously awaiting my free upgrade to v.2.0 next month.

Apart from the occasionally-enjoyable MacPipes game, and a couple of Newton connection utilities that I've never used anyway, it looks like I'm ready to say goodbye to Rosetta...


----------



## pm-r

Why in earth did you use MailForge as an intermediary Eudora converter??? And I believe I replied to one of your other posts to get ALL your Eudora stuff working as expected and migrated by using "Eudora Mailbox Cleaner 4.9". http://homepage.mac.com/aamann/Eudora_Mailbox_Cleaner.html Yes you have to use it in SL or a previous Mac OS as it's a PPC application and relies on Rosetta.

If MailForge worked as well, I'd be quite surprised from my experience with it. And I even donated to its development some years ago which seems to have been a waste of money.

As a loooong time Mac Eudora since its inception, my 6.2.4 died big time in 10.5.8 for some still unexplained reason, so I started using it in SL in Jan this year where it still works well. But since Jan this year I have being trying and using Mail and it's migrated stuff from Eudora after using "Eudora Mailbox Cleaner 4.9".

If you're like me and anticipating to use Lion and your migrated Eudora stuff or not in Mail, make sure you have a bootable working cloned version of your SL volume and have or make a separate volume clone partition etc. for Lion to install to, and when you get fed up with Lion as I did after just a few days, you can go back to at least your SL boot volume to use.

Just my personal Mac OS Lion dissatisfied experience.


----------



## Guest

SINC said:


> i took the plunge today and installed Lion on my MBP. So far no real issues, but tomorrow when I put in a full work day will tell the tale. All I have done with it today is open programs I need to see if they work, and dump PPC stuff that won't work. I always knew how much space I had left by simply opening my Macintosh HD. No more of that as Lion makes me go to Disk Utility to find out that information now. That takes twice as long, but if that's all that is going to happen, I can live with it. Not sure what others are talking about with the loss of colour and all being gray. I can't tell the difference from SL.


In Finder if you go to the View menu and select Show Status Bar and that comes back. I missed that option right away too. Doesn't work on the "My Files" selection in finder, but works in any other finder window. I think you might have to have a finder window opened and in the foreground for those options to show up ...


----------



## CubaMark

pm-r said:


> Why in earth did you use MailForge as an intermediary Eudora converter??? And I believe I replied to one of your other posts to get ALL your Eudora stuff working as expected and migrated by using "Eudora Mailbox Cleaner 4.9".


As I noted - I did it on a lark, and was quite surprised to find that it had worked fine. Other MF forum users had gone the native MF import route and had success doing it.

I also have Eudora Mailbox Cleaner on my laptop... and Emailchemy too, as I've been planning this for some time. No newbie here, bud.

I always will have the option of installing SL on an external and re-doing the Eudora mail folder import with another program, should the need arise.


----------



## SINC

mguertin said:


> In Finder if you go to the View menu and select Show Status Bar and that comes back. I missed that option right away too. Doesn't work on the "My Files" selection in finder, but works in any other finder window. I think you might have to have a finder window opened and in the foreground for those options to show up ...


Just tried that and it gives me the file sizes on everything on the desktop. I suppose that's OK, but why does it say I have 499 GB free on my Mac HD? It's a 500 GB HD BTW. Disk Utility more properly shows me I have 116 GB free. That is down from 144GB I had free before I installed Lion. What's up with that?


----------



## SINC

Well day one is done using Lion for work and all went well with one little PITA. When I want to resize a pic using Preview, I get this and have to keep clicking "unlock", an extra step I really don't need to add to my work time:


----------



## groovetube

wow. That's soooo windows-esque. Bad apple. Baaaaaadddd......

not far off from confirm or deny....


----------



## Tech Elementz

groovetube said:


> wow. That's soooo windows-esque. Bad apple. Baaaaaadddd......
> 
> not far off from confirm or deny....


Touché.


----------



## MX-V

Garry said:


> my questions would be for everyone complaining about Lion... didn't you bother to look at the features on the Apple website before buying it?


Good point, let me resume how it went in my case. Here's the list I made of my reasons to upgrade to Lion. I've commented what happened to make me downgrade for now.



List I posted on 86kmla.org said:


> The Good:
> *Picture-in-picture zoom*
> -Not useful
> 
> *Yearless birthdays in address book*
> -Again, not that useful
> 
> *AirDrop*
> -Not supported on my hardware
> 
> *FileVault 2 External drive support*
> -I don't use FileVault
> 
> *All My Files*
> -Seemed nice but implementation doesn't work for me.
> 
> *Merge folders*
> -Nice, but not essential.
> 
> *Group as folder*
> -Nice, but not essential.
> 
> *Drag files visual improvement*
> -Bad implementation. The delay before the grouping is confusing and annoying. Easy fix in the future I believe.
> 
> *Keep both files* (ala OS/2, yay )
> -This I miss.
> 
> *Full-Screen Apps*
> -Not useful to me. Bad implementation, should not take a whole space each. Might work for a netbook, but I don't have one.
> 
> *Improvements to Mail*
> -This I miss too, but SL's Mail works for me for the little use I make of it.
> 
> *Mission Control* (not sure, but looks interesting)
> -Spaces/Exposé works MUCH better for me.
> 
> *Low-power wake*
> -Nice feature, not needed yet in my case.
> 
> *Improvements to Preview*
> -Nice too, but I can easily live without.
> 
> *Resume options*
> -Hated it.
> 
> *Screen Sharing improvements*
> -Not tested.
> 
> *Improvements to Spotlight* (drag and drop and quicklook)
> -THIS might be the one feature of Lion I would have loved to keep.
> 
> *Improvements to TextEdit*
> -Nice, but can live without.
> 
> *Versions* (not sure.. but I might use that)
> -Bad implementation, confusing as it is. But sure is a good idea and I hope Apple will improve on it.
> 
> The Bad:
> Resize from any edge (sad...)
> -Thought I'd get used to it.. annoying arrows. And I probably would have.
> 
> Overlay scroll bars (I like my scroll bars!)
> -Ugly and less functional than the old ones. (no arrows). No big deal for most, but it is for me. I do use the arrows and I don't see any good reason to get rid of them.
> 
> Everything else I don't care or can be disabled/not used.


So of the 19 features I was interested in, I ended up really using/liking 1. At the cost of a less elegant UI, more RAM usage and loss of features I liked and used a lot.

So yea, not worth it to me.


----------



## basic.works

thank for the help thus far.

In a Terminal window, type:

sudo passwd <username>

And follow the prompts.

These were your instructions. My apologies, I did leave the brackets. I have attempted to use is again, the right way this time, but I'm confused as to what to do next.

This is what I got:

Macintosh:~ Mine$ sudo passwd Mike RL
Password:
usage: passwd [-i infosystem] -l location]] [-u authname] [name]
infosystem:
file
NIS
OpenDirectory
PAM
location (for infosystem):
file location is path to file (default is /etc/master.passwd)
NIS location is NIS domain name
OpenDirectory location is directory node name
PAM location is not used
Macintosh:~ Mine$ 

What is it it wants from me at this point? As I'm not familiar with using Terminal, which I should I should learn, I'm like monkey learning to write. Nothing makes much sense.

What would you advise I do next.

(sorry for the delay in responding but I have too much on my plate.)


----------



## SINC

Just noticed one more little thing in Apple Mail - the "Bounce" feature is gone in Lion. Too bad, I used it occasionally.


----------



## screature

Garry said:


> ...*And I guess my questions would be for everyone complaining about Lion... didn't you bother to look at the features on the Apple website before buying it?* What made you decide to just blindly install the operating system the day it came out? When something like a new OS is coming out, don't most people research it before installing it?


A lot of things being mentioned here and elsewhere were not mentioned as features at the Apple site and even those that were mentioned as features, Apple didn't mention anything about certain things being taken away because of the addition of a certain feature, e.g. versions and no longer not being able to Save As... documents, 

I think most people's complaints, those that are truly legitimate, are not things that were added but things that were taken away or hidden, e.g. /Library. Also a lot of the complaints are about having the option to do things in an alternative manner as opposed to being locked into one preset way, i.e. being less user configurable.

I think most people go and look at the features and think this or that may be cool, but you really can't know for sure until you try it. At $30 Apple has made it easy to try Lion and it seems more people than ever has done exactly that earlier than they would have if the cost were still $130 dollars like a full OS upgrade has been in the past.

So I don't think people are upgrading any more "blindly" (just more people are doing it sooner) than any other OS upgrade. There are unknowns to every OS upgrade and Apple likes it that way. They want the user to have a certain amount of surprise when investigating the new OS that, "ohh, isn't that cool" kind of experience... It just seems that with Lion for many people that surprise experience hasn't been "ohh, isn't that cool" but more""ohh, that sucks".


----------



## SINC

I give up. After two full days of backwards scrolling, it's not for me. My brain overrides my attempt to learn this, but no way does it allow me to get used to it. Don't get me wrong, I think this method of scrolling is fine on a touch screen device with fingers on glass, but it is bass ackwards on a computer trackpad. Sorry Apple, but I'm out.


----------



## Tech Elementz

SINC said:


> I give up. After two full days of backwards scrolling, it's not for me. My brain overrides my attempt to learn this, but no way does it allow me to get used to it. Don't get me wrong, I think this method of scrolling is fine on a touch screen device with fingers on glass, but it is bass ackwards on a computer trackpad. Sorry Apple, but I'm out.


Are you sure your out? Joy of Tech takes on the iPhone 3GS


----------



## SINC

Tech Elementz said:


> Are you sure your out?


Very sure, my iPhone is a 4.


----------



## pm-r

SINC said:


> I give up. After two full days of backwards scrolling, it's not for me. My brain overrides my attempt to learn this, but no way does it allow me to get used to it. Don't get me wrong, I think this method of scrolling is fine on a touch screen device with fingers on glass, but it is bass ackwards on a computer trackpad. Sorry Apple, but I'm out.


The scrolling method is changeable if you want, but I'm back into Snow Leopard 10.6.8 thanks.


----------



## MX-V

basic.works said:


> thank for the help thus far.
> [...]
> What would you advise I do next.


Next I would suggest you pardon me for putting you in the Terminal when there is a better way available. 

Go there, it should work better for you : Mac OS X: Changing or resetting an account password

Again, let me know if it works.


----------



## SINC

pm-r said:


> The scrolling method is changeable if you want, but I'm back into Snow Leopard 10.6.8 thanks.


Sorry, to be clear, I am still on Lion, I just changed the scrolling.


----------



## Tech Elementz

SINC said:


> Very sure, my iPhone is a 4.


oui oui....


----------



## cap10subtext

SINC said:


> Well day one is done using Lion for work and all went well with one little PITA. When I want to resize a pic using Preview, I get this and have to keep clicking "unlock", an extra step I really don't need to add to my work time:


ohhhhh... this made me a little sick to my stomach... XX) If I didn't want to edit it I wouldn't have opened it, would I? Was the "save or discard changes" not getting through to people?

Apple needs to change their slogan from "Think Different" to "Think, Dammit!"


----------



## CubaMark

A developer has released a little app to help make the changes for which many of you have expressed a desire:

Lion Tweaks for Mac - Tweak certain features in Mac OS X 10.7.


----------



## Jason H

I've tried to stay positive about this whole update, but nothing works!

I can't do a time machine back up to my air disk

Preview doesn't work most of the time

iTunes won't detect my apple tv when it goes to sleep. i have to restart iTunes every time.


----------



## SINC

cap10subtext said:


> ohhhhh... this made me a little sick to my stomach... XX) If I didn't want to edit it I wouldn't have opened it, would I? Was the "save or discard changes" not getting through to people?
> 
> Apple needs to change their slogan from "Think Different" to "Think, Dammit!"


Yep, and now I've found it happens with every damn document. Try to open a Pages file over a day old and correct an error in the text, same damn thing. This is an awful inconvenience.

As an aside, can one turn off auto save? I use a bunch of Pages documents as templates for my site. I used to just go in and make the necessary inputs, do a copy and save, then close the window with "don't save" so I can use it again. Now the damn auto save keeps the changes. Screws up my whole self-invented system.


----------



## SINC

I was editing a Pages document this morning when suddenly my screen went gray, the log-in screen appeared and I had to re-log in. Then the screen below appeared with the spinning gear that lasted for about a minute. A Lion quirk or something more sinister?


----------



## MX-V

SINC said:


> I was editing a Pages document this morning when suddenly my screen went gray, the log-in screen appeared and I had to re-log in. Then the screen below appeared with the spinning gear that lasted for about a minute. A Lion quirk or something more sinister?


I believe this means the app is not responding. The new beachball if you wish. The forced log-out is mysterious though... sorry I can't be of more help.


----------



## SINC

MX-V said:


> I believe this means the app is not responding. The new beachball if you wish. The forced log-out is mysterious though... sorry I can't be of more help.


Actually NOTHING was responding. It used to be that when the spinning gear appeared in SL, it was on a gray screen. Now it leaves whatever you were working on, dimmed on the desktop, thus my question.


----------



## MX-V

SINC said:


> Actually NOTHING was responding. It used to be that when the spinning gear appeared in SL, it was on a gray screen. Now it leaves whatever you were working on, dimmed on the desktop, thus my question.


Oh.. I have no idea then. Sorry.


----------



## cchaynes

chas_m said:


> When I read about people talking about the "reversed scrolling" I was a bit confused -- why would Apple do that? Then someone said it was reflective of the way scrolling is done on iOS products, and I thought to myself "no it isn't!!" I have two iPhones, an iPad, and a Magic Mouse (on a Mac running SL) and I switch between these constantly with no issues.
> 
> Then I actually looked at myself scrolling on the iPhone. I'll. Be. Danged.
> 
> In short, I don't think the reverse scrolling will take long to get used to, and as others have pointed out you can change it if you want. I haven't upgraded yet, will do so when I'm not using the computer for work (that might take a while), have a tested full backup and clone, and have weeded out the few remaining programs that aren't up to code (what's up with that, Blogo?).



wow! this is really interesting! I think it has to do with the orientation of the screen, a compute is vertical and you are not touching the screen. interesting though i never noticed it being odd in IOS but 5 seconds with Lion and i was looking to fix it!


----------



## Digikid

Here is a strange one. I just got back from a clean Lion install and I no longer have a Applications Icon on my dock.

How do I go about putting it back on there?

EDIT: Okay I figured it out finally. Just open a Finder window and drag the APPLICATIONS icon from the Sidebar Menu to the Dock. Make sure that when you do this you make it look like a folder icon instead of a stack or you will have a load of overlapping icons there.


----------



## Tech Elementz

Digikid said:


> Here is a strange one. I just got back from a clean Lion install and I no longer have a Applications Icon on my dock.
> 
> How do I go about putting it back on there?
> 
> EDIT: Okay I figured it out finally. Just open a Finder window and drag the APPLICATIONS icon from the Sidebar Menu to the Dock. Make sure that when you do this you make it look like a folder icon instead of a stack or you will have a load of overlapping icons there.


Launchpad.


----------



## pm-r

Digikid said:


> Here is a strange one. I just got back from a clean Lion install and I no longer have a Applications Icon on my dock.
> 
> How do I go about putting it back on there?
> 
> EDIT: Okay I figured it out finally. Just open a Finder window and drag the APPLICATIONS icon from the Sidebar Menu to the Dock. Make sure that when you do this you make it look like a folder icon instead of a stack or you will have a load of overlapping icons there.


If it still works the same way in Lion and you want to bypass any of the 'stack' type listing etc., open your HD and make an alias of the 'normal' Applications folder, or whatever folder you want to use, and then click/hold&drag the alias you created to your Dock. 

Then remove the Application 'stack' folder from your Dock. Or maybe right-click it and select 'List' from the viewing options and see if that's what you want to use.


----------



## Digikid

Tech Elementz said:


> Launchpad.


I hate that stupid thing.tptptptp


----------



## Benito

Digikid said:


> I hate that stupid thing.tptptptp


I deleted the shortcut to the launchpad app on my dock. Who uses it who's had a mac for a while? Spotlight is the way to go.


----------



## Vexel

Benito said:


> I deleted the shortcut to the launchpad app on my dock. Who uses it who's had a mac for a while? Spotlight is the way to go.


Absolutely, I've used the ol' Command + Space launch style for a long time. I have a few things in my dock that I access regularly, I also have my applications folder in my dock as a list.. but, it's so much quicker to type.. especially once you're used to it.

*edit*

On another note, I also do the same thing on my iPhone, home button and search for launching of a lot of things.. it becomes really quick once you're doing it fluidly. =)


----------



## Tech Elementz

I'm quite happy to use Launchpad.... Then again, Spotlight is my best friend.... Have not gotten used to cmd+space though.... Maybe later on....


----------



## CubaMark

Well... this must be one of the 250+ improvements to Lion that slipped under the radar. I hadn't heard of this until now.... and I could swear I read through that review at Ars Tecnica...



> Lion will quit your running applications behind your back if it decides it needs the resources, and if you don’t appear to be using them. The heuristic for determining whether an application is “in use” is very conservative: it must not be the active application, it must have no visible, non-minimized windows — and, of course, it must explicitly support Automatic Termination.


(Ars Tecnica via TidBits)

I can see some users not liking the feature, but I know a whole bunch of people for whom this is perfect (like the little old lady who contacts me once a week because she forgot how to click her mouse - yeah, mostly joking, but not by far). Every single time I connect with iChat Screen Sharing to show her how to do something, or to fix a problem she's having, I glance at the dock to see that she has 20+ applications running. And every single time, it's "Oh Dear! How did that happen! I'm not using those!" Sigh.


----------



## duosonic

24-hours in on my MBP 13" i7 - - - - Lion ROCKS!!


----------



## Tech Elementz

duosonic said:


> 24-hours in on my MBP 13" i7 - - - - Lion ROCKS!!


One of the few people that like it....  Good to know there are some people out there with that kind of enthusiasm.


----------



## 9780

Tech Elementz said:


> One of the few people that like it....  Good to know there are some people out there with that kind of enthusiasm.


I've taken quite a liking to it, too. It's not that much different from SL actually, just that the differences are _obvious_ and scream out "iOS is invading OS X!". Note that I have no PPC legacy software, I've got a Macbook Air from Jan. 2011, and I love gestures on the trackpad - even more on Lion.

It's still good ol' OS X though, looks and feels pretty much the same and runs all my apps with the same speed and efficiency as before.

The only detail that bothers me is the absence of key repeat (press and old one vowel for example, and a popup appears showing all the accents - more user-friendly than the old opt-key combinations, but removes the ability to easily do oooooooo ).

Other than that, it's great!


----------



## Tech Elementz

patrix said:


> I've taken quite a liking to it, too. It's not that much different from SL actually, just that the differences are _obvious_ and scream out "iOS is invading OS X!". Note that I have no PPC legacy software, I've got a Macbook Air from Jan. 2011, and I love gestures on the trackpad - even more on Lion.
> 
> It's still good ol' OS X though, looks and feels pretty much the same and runs all my apps with the same speed and efficiency as before.
> 
> The only detail that bothers me is the absence of key repeat (press and old one vowel for example, and a popup appears showing all the accents - more user-friendly than the old opt-key combinations, but removes the ability to easily do oooooooo ).
> 
> Other than that, it's great!


+1 Disable the Character Accent Menu and Enable Key Repeat in Mac OS X Lion


----------



## Guest

duosonic said:


> 24-hours in on my MBP 13" i7 - - - - Lion ROCKS!!


Tell us what you think after 240 hours 

I ran into a very strange bug yesterday. I had a safari window get "stuck" between desktops after waking my laptop up from sleep. Safari was running but the window was not visible on any of my desktops, but ... when three finger scrolling (moving from one desktop to the next) it would appear, but only when par way through a scroll. Would never "land" on any of the desktops and you couldn't click it with a mouse (because you can't do that during mid gesture). Nothing from any of the menus would bring it back (zoom, minimize, etc), nothing worked. The window didn't exist in mission control either. Ended up having to force quit and re-launch. So it seems we have yet another window state to worry about on the development end of things -- lost windows.


----------



## pm-r

mguertin said:


> Tell us what you think after 240 hours
> ... ... ...


And being an old pensioned retiree and a 20 year Mac user, I lasted 2 1/2 days max using Lion 10.7, and using some of it's normal user options available.

But it seems like Apple, without using some of the OS Lion user configuration utilities and pref panes that are coming on line to download and install, should have made Terminal a System Preferences pref pane with some list of possible changes for the user to use.

Not a happy Lion 10.7 user, but I'll give it another go sometime, but thank God and my Mac thinking that I kept my recent updated bootable 10.6.8 version volume for my normal daily use.


----------



## 9780

Tech Elementz said:


> +1 Disable the Character Accent Menu and Enable Key Repeat in Mac OS X Lion


you're my hero! :love2:


----------



## bighog

duosonic said:


> 24-hours in on my MBP 13" i7 - - - - Lion ROCKS!!


+1 I've been using it since day 1. I've been a long time user, been along for the ride since System 6. I've been through every iteration, I was on the first OS X beta since day 1.

I have to admit I have had some difficulties understanding the outrage over Lion. I understand how a change in workflow can cause headaches for professionals but I haven't been able to understand the level of disdain over Lion. I've listened to the complaints and overall I haven't been able to pinpoint what exactly is the root cause. The most common thread is a dislike for the new "spaces" I can understand that, even if I cannot understand how it can drive people to storm Cupertino with pitchforks and burning torches.

Most other things I would think would normally be considered minor annoyances, and I'm shocked to hear how many people are upset about changes to Expose, I still remember when it originally came out and hearing the cat calls at how useless the feature would be.

I've been very very happy with Lion. I run a MacBook Pro and Lion seems to be a perfect fit for the laptop user and the trackpad, I've always been skeptical of multitouch but over time I've become a strong fan of it.

I still don't see it as a major departure from SL and I think that is why I'm left wondering what I'm missing, or perhaps that the most upset users are simply the most vocal, and the rest of us are just quietly continuing on our merry way.


----------



## Paddy

bighog said:


> +1 I've been using it since day 1. I've been a long time user, been along for the ride since System 6. I've been through every iteration, I was on the first OS X beta since day 1.
> 
> I have to admit I have had some difficulties understanding the outrage over Lion. I understand how a change in workflow can cause headaches for professionals but I haven't been able to understand the level of disdain over Lion. I've listened to the complaints and overall I haven't been able to pinpoint what exactly is the root cause. The most common thread is a dislike for the new "spaces" I can understand that, even if I cannot understand how it can drive people to storm Cupertino with pitchforks and burning torches.
> 
> Most other things I would think would normally be considered minor annoyances, and I'm shocked to hear how many people are upset about changes to Expose, I still remember when it originally came out and hearing the cat calls at how useless the feature would be.
> 
> I've been very very happy with Lion. I run a MacBook Pro and Lion seems to be a perfect fit for the laptop user and the trackpad, I've always been skeptical of multitouch but over time I've become a strong fan of it.
> 
> I still don't see it as a major departure from SL and I think that is why I'm left wondering what I'm missing, or perhaps that the most upset users are simply the most vocal, and the rest of us are just quietly continuing on our merry way.


Couldn't agree more, bighog - I've been using it for several weeks now on my MBP (I'm at the cottage) and have had no issues whatsoever. Did a few things in Terminal - made my user Library folder visible, for instance - and it's been away to the races ever since. (Disabled the reverse scrolling too - though could have gotten used to it if I'd wanted to bother, I'm sure) I still have lots to explore actually, but for email, web browsing, the odd Word doc, Lightroom work with photos etc. so far, no issues. Most of my clients seem to be on vacation too so I haven't been doing any web work or work in InDesign, so there are some things I've not tried yet, but in all likelihood the Mac Pro will be updated too when I get home in September.

BTW - for those with older MBPs - this one is an early 2007 Core 2 Duo (2.33 GHz) and at the moment it only has 2 GB of RAM and runs Lion pretty well, though I haven't done much in Photoshop or anything else that uses lots of RAM. It was a bit slow in PS - for that reason, I just ordered 4GB from Canada RAM though of course it will only use 3.3GHz or so, but it should be enough to speed things up a bit. My MacPro has 10GB (either that or 12...not at home at the moment...) so not worried about it, though may pop some more RAM in its two empty slots. I wish its RAM was as cheap as the MBP's, but unfortunately it's the DDR2-800 stuff with the massive heat sinks and it's NOT cheap.


----------



## Tech Elementz

patrix said:


> you're my hero! :love2:


No problem.


----------



## Kleles

*Key repeat and Save as*



patrix said:


> The only detail that bothers me is the absence of key repeat (press and old one vowel for example, and a popup appears showing all the accents - more user-friendly than the old opt-key combinations, but removes the ability to easily do oooooooo ).


Key Repeat?!? Serendipity at work! I didn't know about getting accented vowels this way before I read your comment, patrix. Thanks. I'm often typing accented vowels, and I used Character Viewer to find them. It's rare that I have to do a sequence of repeated vowels. This works for me. Thanks again.

The only function I'm missing so far (2 days), and I am adapting, is Save As. I often created a new version of a files by saving it with different file name. Now, I'm "Duplicate"ing the file and changing the name when I save. Slightly less elegant.


----------



## ychoi1997

for me i find that the os x is great. however, the one thing that i dislike is the reverse scroll... however it does make more sense. I'm glad that they give us the trackpad options in system prefs.


----------



## Tech Elementz

ychoi1997 said:


> for me i find that the os x is great. however, the one thing that i dislike is the reverse scroll... however it does make more sense. I'm glad that they give us the trackpad options in system prefs.


Did you already turn off reverse scrolling?


----------



## basic.works

Am I in a pickle. I backed up most of my important info on a 1/2TB HD and hope, as suggested, the rest of my files would be fine when I upgraded to Lion. Now, I can't access my user account. When I select it from the log-in window, I get prompted to change my password but it won't accept ANY current and previous passwords I can think of. Adding insult to injury, I can't access my backed up copies of my files. It says I don't have permission and prompts for a user name and password. Again, I tried everyone I can think of without avail. I tried to change permission via "get info" but it won't accept any password I try to unlock it.

I have tried ALL Mac 101 ways to change a password. NOTHING WORKS. How do make my computer stop prompting me for the password change? From there, I assume I should be able to change the password with a Mac 101 technique. I't like it's locked in, halfway though a procedure I never started and need to cancel, AND somehow has modified my password. 

VERY fracking frustrating!!!!

Anyone got any ideas??


----------



## pm-r

Start over and use Migration Assistant if needed when first prompted.

Or get back to your SL 10.6.8 boot volume, and use it.


----------



## CubaMark

I once came across this on a friend's iMac - she had someone else "do something" / "fix" her computer while I was overseas. We wracked our brains trying to figure out what the heck the password could be.

In the end? It was nothing. Leave it empty. Hit Return.

Worked?


----------



## basic.works

I tried the "no password" idea with with no success. As I said, I've done all the "Mac 101" ideas. Nothing seems to work. As far as the restart from Scratch, I downloaded the upgrade and have no disk(s). Is Lion loaded in the partition, similar to what Windows does, or do I need to re download the upgrade file? I looked for it on my system but, if it's still around, I can't seem to locate it. Lastly, regarding the Migration Assistant, I have never used that application. Is it pretty much self explanatory? Will it import/save/migrate all the files and folders I have created in all my account? The Apple tech had me create an account that I think may have taken over the "corrupted" one's data so I'm not 100% sure which account actually has anything, if any.


----------



## Paddy

When you say you "backed up" most of your important files, HOW did you back them up?

Did you clone your previous install? Did you use Time Machine? Or did you try to drag and drop the files to the external drive?

If you can tell us what you did, we might be able to help a bit more in getting you out of your pickle.


----------



## basic.works

Because, to me knowledge, Time Machine does not allow access to independent file access, I used the Drag & Drop approach to copy all my "created" files on an external HD. In practice, I use my HD in a similar fashion to a USB Flash-Drive. I found that in previous versions, My CPU spent more resources backing up my computer then I was able to use and caused crashes and slowdowns at every turn. As well, when I accidentally deleted a a file for a project I was working on, I tried to go to the Time machine to retrieve it but found I had to, effectively, load a restore point rather then grab the file and go. Thus the reason for the USB-like choice.

As PM-R suggested, perhaps it might be best to just wipe the system and restart with the migration assistant but I don't understand exactly how it works. Does it recreate the data from every account on my Mac or only one? Will it collect all the files and folders I created and reload them or just save them somewhere where I'll need to find?


----------



## pm-r

Unfortunately 'Migration Assistant' doesn't seem to allow or provide any means to "migrate" anything from a flash thumb drive or any drive that doesn't have Mac OS X also installed and as a bootable device with any Users data.

Unless someone knows of a method to do so.


----------



## jamesB

basic.works said:


> As well, when I accidentally deleted a a file for a project I was working on, I tried to go to the Time machine to retrieve it but found I had to, effectively, load a restore point rather then grab the file and go. Thus the reason for the USB-like choice.


You really should take the time to gain a better understanding of how TM functions.
Restoring a single file from TM is in most cases probably much faster then locating the correct USB stick, inserting it, waiting for it to mount and then locating the file you want and copying it over.
Just click on Enter Time Machine, locate your file and click Restore, doesn't get any easier then this.


----------



## Z06jerry

pm-r said:


> Unfortunately 'Migration Assistant' doesn't seem to allow or provide any means to "migrate" anything from a flash thumb drive or any drive that doesn't have Mac OS X also installed and as a bootable device with any Users data.
> 
> Unless someone knows of a method to do so.


This should work ...


----------



## pm-r

That's what it says Z06jerry, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to work with files etc. on a flash drive or hard drive without a OS X system, but then again, one can just use the Finder to move them back.


----------



## eHDan

Good to hear it's working for you! I've been considering doing the same but haven't found the time to do so!


----------



## schlaBAM

this might be my first mac, but I like OS Lion.
haven't found any problems yet, although this is only day 2.


----------



## monokitty

schlaBAM said:


> this might be my first mac, but I like OS Lion.
> haven't found any problems yet, although this is only day 2.


People going to Lion without experiencing the previous OS's won't find things to whine about.


----------



## pm-r

schlaBAM said:


> this might be my first mac, but I like OS Lion.
> haven't found any problems yet, although this is only day 2.


Nice to read your positive Lion comment in this thread, and welcome to the Mac experience.



Lars said:


> People going to Lion without experiencing the previous OS's won't find things to whine about.


So true!! And maybe they'll just carry on and dismiss all the negative comments and deal with their user's UI preferences options and just carry on and enjoy their new Mac.


----------



## schlaBAM

Lars said:


> People going to Lion without experiencing the previous OS's won't find things to whine about.


i mean it's not like i've never used a mac before! I used to use those colorful apple computers that were literally like an apple.. and I have used snow leopard as well! but I think that everything will be fine, I love this computer!


----------



## basic.works

*possible pre existing condition*



Lars said:


> People going to Lion without experiencing the previous OS's won't find things to whine about.


I too enjoy Lion. I think launchpad is great. I can access my apps without going thru Finder and even though I don't have touch-screen, click and whip of the mouse has the same effect.

The only issue I have, is that, when I upgraded, I got locked out of my primary account. I do recall, however, that when I first did a clean install of Snow Leopard on a new, virgin, HD, I kept hetting prompted to change my password every time I started my computer after a full shut down. It was explained that it was a feature normally available for servers and IT tech to remind to change the security password every morning, or when ever. I honestly cannot recall how we managed to finally cancel this prompt, as it was quit annoying, and can't help but wonder if it's connected to the issue at hand. I get the exact same propt except it will not accept the old password. I have done all the different approaches to change the password and, judging by the fact that the password hint is changing, it still will not accept the "old" password confirmation.

If any of you Gurus out there can think of something.. that does NOT involve ANOTHER means to change the password as I'm pretty sure I have tried with the help of and Apple support tech, I would be very grateful.


----------



## groovetube

Lars said:


> People going to Lion without experiencing the previous OS's won't find things to whine about.


other than the fact that it's buggy as hell? Just had someone I know buy his first mac and take it back.

Too bad that was his first experience with a mac and a buggy released too soon OS. Tried to convince him SL is better, but no dice.


----------



## schlaBAM

groovetube said:


> other than the fact that it's buggy as hell? Just had someone I know buy his first mac and take it back.
> 
> Too bad that was his first experience with a mac and a buggy released too soon OS. Tried to convince him SL is better, but no dice.


this is my first mac too and i don't find it buggy at all, then again this computer isn't my life and i'm not on it all day trying to pick out every con of the computer so hey, what do I know.


----------



## Z06jerry

schlaBAM said:


> this is my first mac too and i don't find it buggy at all, then again this computer isn't my life and i'm not on it all day trying to pick out every con of the computer so hey, what do I know.


 well said :clap:


----------



## basic.works

schlaBAM said:


> this is my first mac too and i don't find it buggy at all, then again this computer isn't my life and i'm not on it all day trying to pick out every con of the computer so hey, what do I know.


sadly.. due to my disability, I do live in front of my Mac. But as I said, thus far, I don't find it buggy at all, aside from the log-in issue of my previous primary user account. So far, I truly enjoy LaunchPad but as I'm not knowledgeable in the ways of the terminal, I don't know, yet, what other feature I may discover. I do know the dictionary, for some reason, is not working as well, with spell check, as it did before and I don't care much for the hidden library. Otherwise, no serious complaints.


----------



## SINC

After a bad update experience with Lion, I abandoned it for three weeks, then did a zero out and reinstalled it and I now find it trouble free and quite fast. My work flow is back to normal. I wish I could retain the 'save as' feature, but I figured a way around it that works for me. All is good now.


----------



## jamesB

I remember when it was said, a Mac computer was so easy "that even your mother can use it".
Well now we have Lion, so dumbed down that even their "kids can use it". :lmao:


----------



## hayesk

jamesB said:


> I remember when it was said, a Mac computer was so easy "that even your mother can use it".
> Well now we have Lion, so dumbed down that even their "kids can use it". :lmao:


Good. That's the way it should be. Tools shouldn't be hard on purpose. They should be made as easy as possible. All this talk of "dumbing down the OS" reminds me of criticisms of Macs by DOS users so many years ago. It was BS then and it is BS now - it only serves the fragile egos of those who are finding their expertise becoming marginalized.

Aside from a few bugs that will be fixed, nothing about Lion makes you less productive than SL unless you refuse to adapt.


----------



## groovetube

Z06jerry said:


> well said :clap:


and this wipes out all the people who find lion buggy!

Stupendous.

Hey everybody, all those finding lion buggy, you're full of crap. cause someone on the interwebs said so.


----------



## hayesk

groovetube said:


> Hey everybody, all those finding lion buggy, you're full of crap. cause someone on the interwebs said so.


The poster was attempting to correct the inherent bias in reading forums for stability issues. People post when they have problems. Very rarely do people post when their stuff works. He's merely correcting the notion that Lion is an unstable mess just because some people have stability issues. He's not trying to pretend nobody is having problems. We know some people are having problems, but that doesn't mean everyone or even most people are.


----------



## fjnmusic

"Some people have stability issues."

Now there's a mouthful! It's like saying "some people have nervous breakdowns." No biased wording there.


----------



## groovetube

hayesk said:


> The poster was attempting to correct the inherent bias in reading forums for stability issues. People post when they have problems. Very rarely do people post when their stuff works. He's merely correcting the notion that Lion is an unstable mess just because some people have stability issues. He's not trying to pretend nobody is having problems. We know some people are having problems, but that doesn't mean everyone or even most people are.


inherent bias?

pffft. This is the first time since OS8 I have seen such a backlash on how unstable a mac os release has been. I have heard this very sentiment from many, many long time mac users who have use more OSs than I/

Inherent bias? Yeah. I would say it is more rare for me to hear of anyone having no problems with lion. I don't ever recall people upgrading to an OS and it just not working out at all like this. Ever.

Except in the windows world of course.


----------



## hayesk

Do you think everyone who has no problems are going to join internet forums just to post "just came here to say everything's a-ok." No, people go to the forums when they have problems. So if you look to the Internet, you see mostly complaints, which is not representative of everyone's experience.

It's like hanging around a returns desk in a store to see how people like a product. You aren't hearing from the people who are satisfied.

Maybe your experience is different, but I heard this much complaining over Snow Leopard, Leopard, and Tiger, and releases before that. This happens every time Apple releases a new OS. It's no worse in Lion.


----------



## hayesk

fjnmusic said:


> "Some people have stability issues."
> 
> Now there's a mouthful! It's like saying "some people have nervous breakdowns." No biased wording there.


Well, some people do have stability issues, but yeah, I meant their computers.


----------



## groovetube

hayesk said:


> Do you think everyone who has no problems are going to join internet forums just to post "just came here to say everything's a-ok." No, people go to the forums when they have problems. So if you look to the Internet, you see mostly complaints, which is not representative of everyone's experience.
> 
> It's like hanging around a returns desk in a store to see how people like a product. You aren't hearing from the people who are satisfied.
> 
> Maybe your experience is different, but I heard this much complaining over Snow Leopard, Leopard, and Tiger, and releases before that. This happens every time Apple releases a new OS. It's no worse in Lion.


I'm not sure how far out you venture, but the complaining I hear isn't, from the internet.

Just about everyone on "agency alley' here in Toronto is having problems with it. Real world. Never seen this before, ever.


----------



## monokitty

groovetube said:


> Hey everybody, all those finding lion buggy, you're full of crap. cause someone on the interwebs said so.


Hey everybody, Lion _is_ full of bugs, unstable and unreliable. cause someone on the inter webs said so.

Same deal and just as unintelligent to say.

Speaking of which, have you even used Lion or are you avoiding it because people on the inter webs said it's unstable and buggy? Based on 2611 ratings on the Mac App Store, the average rating currently sits at 4.5/5 stars for this release, so I'd say plenty of people are happy with Lion. Yes, some people have problems with it - noted. But that doesn't make Lion some unsalvageable write off that appears to be implied by some.

And honestly - give it time. Maybe 10.7.3-10.7.4 to work out all the bugs or at least the major ones. I've never known any major new release from any company in the world to be flawless right off the bat, whether it's the release of an operating system or a new car.


----------



## groovetube

Lars said:


> Hey everybody, Lion _is_ full of bugs, unstable and unreliable. cause someone on the inter webs said so.
> 
> Same deal and just as unintelligent to say.
> 
> Speaking of which, have you even used Lion or are you avoiding it because people on the inter webs said it's unstable and buggy? Based on 2611 ratings on the Mac App Store, the average rating currently sits at 4.5/5 stars for this release, so I'd say plenty of people are happy with Lion. Yes, some people have problems with it - noted. But that doesn't make Lion some unsalvageable write off that appears to be implied by some.
> 
> And honestly - give it time. Maybe 10.7.3-10.7.4 to work out all the bugs or at least the major ones. I've never known any major new release from any company in the world to be flawless right off the bat, whether it's the release of an operating system or a new car.


Yes I have, and it's useless at this time. I was the first one to say I was excited about the new features. In fact you can find it in the threads here when it was confirmed for launch and what the new features were.

I prefer to base MY opinions NOT on the internet, but in the real world thank you very much.

Every, single person I know and work with who uses their macs and upgraded to lion, have all downgraded. Every, one of them. I know people who have put aside buying decisions until they work it out, or bought previous models to get SL.

That NEVER happened on any on the previous releases. I sincerely hope apple gets it together in the next few point releases. But this is the first one to exhibit such flaws on release like this.

Defend away.


----------



## fjnmusic

hayesk said:


> Do you think everyone who has no problems are going to join internet forums just to post "just came here to say everything's a-ok." No, people go to the forums when they have problems. So if you look to the Internet, you see mostly complaints, which is not representative of everyone's experience.
> 
> It's like hanging around a returns desk in a store to see how people like a product. You aren't hearing from the people who are satisfied.
> 
> Maybe your experience is different, but I heard this much complaining over Snow Leopard, Leopard, and Tiger, and releases before that. This happens every time Apple releases a new OS. It's no worse in Lion.


Kind of like when someone posts an event on Facebook and the only ones to respond are those who _aren't_ coming. 

Having said that, if there is a common consensus among Lion users that certain programs that worked fine under Snow Leopard, for example, no longer work under Lion, then that's enough of a red flag for me, no matter how inexpensive and easy to use Lion may be on other fronts. And I certainly don't appreciate Lion-lovers telling me I have to get with the program and replace my aging software—I don't _have_ to do anything, and neither do you. Hopefully Apple and its developers will continue to make improvements that will make Lion useable down the road for me and many other customers with money to spend. It would be foolish to do anything different.


----------



## broad

hayesk said:


> Do you think everyone who has no problems are going to join internet forums just to post "just came here to say everything's a-ok." No, people go to the forums when they have problems. So if you look to the Internet, you see mostly complaints, which is not representative of everyone's experience.
> 
> It's like hanging around a returns desk in a store to see how people like a product. You aren't hearing from the people who are satisfied.
> 
> Maybe your experience is different, but I heard this much complaining over Snow Leopard, Leopard, and Tiger, and releases before that. This happens every time Apple releases a new OS. It's no worse in Lion.


not sure which circles you travel in, but the backlash i have seen over lion is exponentially more than anything i saw over 10.6 or 10.5

personally i put 10.6 on about 6 of my own machines on the day it was released and it was pretty much smooth sailing all the way til present


----------



## groovetube

fjnmusic said:


> Kind of like when someone posts an event on Facebook and the only ones to respond are those who _aren't_ coming.
> 
> Having said that, if there is a common consensus among Lion users that certain programs that worked fine under Snow Leopard, for example, no longer work under Lion, then that's enough of a red flag for me, no matter how inexpensive and easy to use Lion may be on other fronts. And I certainly don't appreciate Lion-lovers telling me I have to get with the program and replace my aging software—I don't _have_ to do anything, and neither do you. Hopefully Apple and its developers will continue to make improvements that will make Lion useable down the road for me and many other customers with money to spend. It would be foolish to do anything different.


sweet jesus, we agree.


----------



## Guest

I wouldn't call Lion unstable ... but it's certainly buggy. You can of course substitute just about any .0 or .1 release of OSX ever into that sentence and still hold have it hold truth ... so business as usual. I still think they should have spent more time rethinking some of their interface choices, but either it will change or it won't and we'll get used to it. 

Lion is more "stable" than many of it's predecessors had been in the fact that I haven't really had a lot of hard (or soft) crashes or kernel panics, that was not always the case.


----------



## groovetube

i donno, both leopard and snow leopard were far more usable for me at .1


----------



## Mr.Tickles

Internet opinions are always skewed. People will rate it up for "looks cool!" and "the new OSX!" without even ever having used it.


----------



## fjnmusic

groovetube said:


> sweet jesus, we agree.


Amen to that, brother. And a Mariska Hargitay to you as well. Om Namaste.


----------



## monokitty

fjnmusic said:


> I don't _have_ to do anything, and neither do you.


For now. That's probably what dedicated OS 9 users said when OS X first arrived, too. And here we are.

Eventually, you'll _have_ to do something. For now, though, sure, let's all sit in denial about it. As previous OS's become entirely unsupported in the future, you'll be forced to upgrade or switch platforms. Your choice.


----------



## hayesk

Some us are seeing good experiences, as most of my customers are, and others bad. What seems to be happening is that each OS upgrade breaks things for different classes of users. It seems this time it's in the professions of many of the users here. In the past with Snow Leopard and earlier releases, it may have been other professions. Is that so implausible?


----------



## hayesk

Mr.Tickles said:


> Internet opinions are always skewed. People will rate it up for "looks cool!" and "the new OSX!" without even ever having used it.


Well, you can't rate until you buy it, but yeah, they could rate it before installing. And they will also vote things down based on the first sign of trouble, before trying to solve their issue.

Just look at the ratings for FCP X, people will vote things down when they're unhappy.


----------



## SINC

Lars said:


> Eventually, you'll _have_ to do something. For now, though, sure, let's all sit in denial about it. As previous OS's become entirely unsupported in the future, you'll be forced to upgrade or switch platforms. Your choice.


That is precisely why I installed Lion and moved on. Sure, I miss a few Rosetta based things I used to use, but I got over that in a couple of weeks. If one looks hard enough, alternative programs are out there. It's just a matter of finding them. For the few Rosetta games I lost that I liked, my Mini stayed on SL, but one day it too will move to Lion as I rarely use the Mini. It's mainly the wife's machine.


----------



## groovetube

hayesk said:


> Some us are seeing good experiences, as most of my customers are, and others bad. What seems to be happening is that each OS upgrade breaks things for different classes of users. It seems this time it's in the professions of many of the users here. In the past with Snow Leopard and earlier releases, it may have been other professions. Is that so implausible?


I don't think it's implausible. But, I was surprised to see quite a number of 'regular light users' have non stop problems. One (which I saw first hand) had constant problems with apps freezing, when you clicked on it the menu wouldn't come into focus, and having to reboot on a regular too often, basis. It seems to me, if you don't have any problems, you're very lucky. I don't recall this with past os x releases, at all. Not like this. This seems abnormal, for apple.


----------



## fjnmusic

Lars said:


> For now. That's probably what dedicated OS 9 users said when OS X first arrived, too. And here we are.
> 
> Eventually, you'll _have_ to do something. For now, though, sure, let's all sit in denial about it. As previous OS's become entirely unsupported in the future, you'll be forced to upgrade or switch platforms. Your choice.


You're not a very good listener. I said I don't HAVE to do anything, and neither do you. Nobody's sitting in denial. It has nothing to do with that. As a consumer I choose what I will spend my money on and when. So do you. You might choose to lease a brand new car and drive it for three years, doing all routine maintenance so you don't have to pay extra at the end of the lease period. I may turn around and buy that same vehicle for half the price knowing you took good care of it. We all make choices, and in a couple of years, Lion or whatever comes next may be the only Apple game in town. But not today. I need the apps I use everyday more than I need the newest OS with all the bells and whistles.


----------



## eMacMan

Lars said:


> For now. That's probably what dedicated OS 9 users said when OS X first arrived, too. And here we are.
> 
> Eventually, you'll _have_ to do something. For now, though, sure, let's all sit in denial about it. As previous OS's become entirely unsupported in the future, you'll be forced to upgrade or switch platforms. Your choice.


I stuck with OS 9 until Panther arrived. Had nothing to do with disliking OS X, just that earlier versions added needless steps to the work flow. The Save dialogs in particular were very difficult to navigate in the Pre-Panther era plus my file system relies heavily on labels. One power user actually suggested using Command D to aim documents at the deskstop then dragging them to wherever I wanted to put them, that's hardly what I would call an efficient work flow. Panther did finally get it right and even added a couple of B & Ws that proved extremely useful. 

Hopefully I will not be stuck in the pre Lion world for another three years as I am about ready to upgrade. Trouble is the eMac still does everything I want at a speed faster than me. Add in limited cash reserves and updating will have to wait at least until a used SL Mac-mini falls in my lap. A new computer is never just the cost of a computer. In most cases software changes or upgrades are also needed. Still looking for a good affordable replacement for the Draw portion of AppleWorks. Have come close but so far have reverted to AppleWorks when it comes time to pay for the app. Also not too happy about having to pay for Spreadsheet and Database apps as these really should be part of any basic install.


----------



## monokitty

eMacMan said:


> I stuck with OS 9 until Panther arrived. Had nothing to do with disliking OS X, just that earlier versions added needless steps to the work flow. The Save dialogs in particular were very difficult to navigate in the Pre-Panther era plus my file system relies heavily on labels. One power user actually suggested using Command D to aim documents at the deskstop then dragging them to wherever I wanted to put them, that's hardly what I would call an efficient work flow. Panther did finally get it right and even added a couple of B & Ws that proved extremely useful.
> 
> Hopefully I will not be stuck in the pre Lion world for another three years as I am about ready to upgrade. Trouble is the eMac still does everything I want at a speed faster than me. Add in limited cash reserves and updating will have to wait at least until a used SL Mac-mini falls in my lap. A new computer is never just the cost of a computer. In most cases software changes or upgrades are also needed. Still looking for a good affordable replacement for the Draw portion of AppleWorks. Have come close but so far have reverted to AppleWorks when it comes time to pay for the app. Also not too happy about having to pay for Spreadsheet and Database apps as these really should be part of any basic install.


You can have my SL Mac mini in a few months.


----------



## Guest

groovetube said:


> I don't think it's implausible. But, I was surprised to see quite a number of 'regular light users' have non stop problems. One (which I saw first hand) had constant problems with apps freezing, when you clicked on it the menu wouldn't come into focus, and having to reboot on a regular too often, basis. It seems to me, if you don't have any problems, you're very lucky. I don't recall this with past os x releases, at all. Not like this. This seems abnormal, for apple.


Yep have seen a lot of stuff like this here as well, both myself, my wife and a few clients. Lots of issues with losing focus never to get it back (I blame the new UI). I've "lost" windows in between spaces and my wife somehow managed to get iMovie to launch in the dedicated dashboard space -- and it was still usable, sort of. I that space you could actually click 'behind" any of the widgets and use iMovie (as long as you didn't need an open/save dialog or access a menu item). You also could not drag the iMovie window to another space as it seems that the dashboard "space" doesn't let you do that, most likely to prevent you from dragging anything onto it somehow. It also wouldn't work trying to assign it to a desktop from either mission control (it didn't even show up in there at all) or from the dashboard icon (it would let you tell it to use a desktop, but it didn't actually do anything). Even after quitting and re-launching it kept coming back to that space. Had to manually trash the preferences (in the hidden Library folder) to end up getting it back into a usable space.

Lion also has some serious problems doing time machine backups over a network to an OSX Server share -- it's killed my backups and I have had to restart them from scratch twice now on my MBP. When it does this it also leaves behind a full copy of the previous backup disc image on the time machine share -- so I'm taking up 3x the amount of space for this single machine backup. At least time machine is "smart" enough now to know when your backup is hosed and tell you it needs to start a new one. Same thing is happening to one client, they added 4 new Lion machine and not one of them makes it a full week before they get informed that they have to start a new backup.


----------



## pm-r

SINC said:


> After a bad update experience with Lion, I abandoned it for three weeks, then did a zero out and reinstalled it and I now find it trouble free and quite fast. My work flow is back to normal. I wish I could retain the 'save as' feature, but I figured a way around it that works for me. All is good now.


I haven't booted into Lion for a while now, but there's an interesting article on its missing "Save As..." that makes a bit more sense to me now as to how it works, which I guess is what some posters here were actually saying.

Maybe I'll give Lion a few more tries, as if the lack of the 'save as' was the only thing I didn't like.

The "Duplicate vs. Save As in OS X Lion" article is available here:

Read more: Duplicate vs. Save As in OS X Lion | MacFixIt - CNET Reviews


----------



## SINC

pm-r said:


> I haven't booted into Lion for a while now, but there's an interesting article on its missing "Save As..." that makes a bit more sense to me now as to how it works, which I guess is what some posters here were actually saying.
> 
> Maybe I'll give Lion a few more tries, as if the lack of the 'save as' was the only thing I didn't like.
> 
> The "Duplicate vs. Save As in OS X Lion" article is available here:
> 
> Read more: Duplicate vs. Save As in OS X Lion | MacFixIt - CNET Reviews


After reading that article, it just shows that Apple's 'tinkering' is little more than a make-work project with extra keystrokes and wasted disk space. If it ain't broke, why fix it?


----------



## groovetube

the truth is, just because apple did it, doesn't make it gold. I'm continuing to hear a lot of complaints, and I totally hated it. That isn't to say I will eventually come around to it if they fix it. But I was really excited about the new features on this one, and after snow leopard being such a great OS, this bums me right out.

It's interesting that adobe, now gives you both the mac, -and- the pc version when you get CS.


----------



## wonderings

I put Lion on my MacBook Pro, but only under parallels 7. I installed a demo of CS5 to see how things run, as well as demos (attempting to anyways) for the specific plugin for indesign I need.

I see no draw or added improvements to switching to Lion just yet. Snow Leopard words perfectly for me right now. The only problem is I will most likely be upgrading to a new MacBook Pro when the next models come out, so I will be stuck with Lion. At least Lion didnt kill my printers like SL and the 10.6.8 updates.


----------



## JAMG

*Memory lane....*



Lars said:


> For now. That's probably what dedicated OS 9 users said when OS X first arrived, too. And here we are.
> 
> Eventually, you'll _have_ to do something. For now, though, sure, let's all sit in denial about it. As previous OS's become entirely unsupported in the future, you'll be forced to upgrade or switch platforms. Your choice.


Sorry to quote you Lars, just using this point to weigh in...


none of this tempest surrounding Lion is new. While looking for something else the other night, I came across some old threads that might amuse long time ehMac'ers...

hope these links work... enjoy

http://www.ehmac.ca/anything-mac/6197-opinions-about-mac-interface-2.html

http://www.ehmac.ca/anything-mac/5242-os-10-4-its-very-toight.html

http://www.ehmac.ca/anything-mac/3707-what-i-missed-most-os-9-a.html

http://www.ehmac.ca/anything-mac/3060-will-panther-one.html

http://www.ehmac.ca/anything-mac/1517-no-os9-slowing-sales.html


----------



## hayesk

The MacFixit article explains it a bit but doesn't go far enough, in my opinion. I'm considering writing my own.

After reading complaints here and elsewhere, I still think this is a non-issue for most casual use cases, with the exception of Autosave. I've sent feedback to Apple to ask that they make it optional.

I still think the versions concept is good, and Apple could take it further with purging control, tagging versions, and browsing by tags. Maybe it'll come in future releases.


----------



## Guest

hayesk said:


> I still think the versions concept is good, and Apple could take it further with purging control, tagging versions, and browsing by tags. Maybe it'll come in future releases.


Yes it has some potential, but I don't think it would ever get there. Apple is going the total opposite way with things these days taking away as much control as possible and leaving you with an On/Off switch and not much else. Personally I'll stick with git and hopefully at some point be able to just turn off versions.


----------



## hayesk

Regular people can't use git, and it's not integrated into applications (other than IDE's of course).

The solution has to come from Apple to be well integrated into the OS and applications. Versions is a good start. And it has to be on/off simple. Time machine would never have taken off if it required the user to do anything more than plug in a drive. And that's good, because now the people who least understand why they should back up, are backing up.


----------



## Guest

The point I was trying to make is that most people don't need git or the features you listed (tagging, branching, etc). Apple probably won't take it much further than it is right now aside from trying to maybe bully more apps into using it. They've not done a thing to date with Time Machine (which IMHO needs it more than versions does).


----------



## monokitty

mguertin said:


> They've not done a thing to date with Time Machine (which IMHO needs it more than versions does).


Such as?

The thing with Time Machine is that it needs to be as simple and straight forward (read: few options as possible) to appeal to the masses who don't know the first thing about backing up their data. Time Machine is so simple to use now that even a monkey could figure out how to back up his data.


----------



## Guest

Lars said:


> Such as?
> 
> The thing with Time Machine is that it needs to be as simple and straight forward (read: few options as possible) to appeal to the masses who don't know the first thing about backing up their data. Time Machine is so simple to use now that even a monkey could figure out how to back up his data.


Such as an option to pick whether to backup the whole drive or just folders you assign. Hide it behind an Advanced button if they need to. I would like Time Machine for just my documents folder personally.

Given it's track record (personally) I mostly don't bother as it's pretty unreliable so I guess it doesn't matter. Versions will be right up there with Time Machine for me in the "ignore this" category -- if only they would let me turn it off.


----------



## jamesB

mguertin said:


> Such as an option to pick whether to backup the whole drive or just folders you assign.


That option is already built into Time Machine.
It takes only a few seconds to first select exclude your boot drive then select all (cmd+A) finally deselect your user Folder and you're good to go.
On one of my systems I use TM to back up only my Home folder which it has been doing reliably for more then a year now.
I case I need to restore this system I'd first restore from my SD clone and then use TM to restore my Home folder.


----------



## Guest

jamesB said:


> That option is already built into Time Machine.
> It takes only a few seconds to first select exclude your boot drive then select all (cmd+A) finally deselect your user Folder and you're good to go.
> On one of my systems I use TM to back up only my Home folder which it has been doing reliably for more then a year now.
> I case I need to restore this system I'd first restore from my SD clone and then use TM to restore my Home folder.


That sort of works, but doesn't cover any new folders that get made after the fact. It's still exclusion vs. inclusion.


----------



## hayesk

You'd like Chronosync then. You'd be amazed at the number of preferences and ways to decide what gets included and excluded.


----------



## Guest

I used CCC for a while which now has a lot of those kinds of options too but I just went back to using rsync ... just write my own backup scripts as required and I can do both inclusive and exclusive backups as required (even in the same command if I want)


----------



## Lawrence

How can I get Flash to work again in Safari under 10.7?

Is there a fix?

Or do I have to dump Lion and go back to Snow Leopard?


----------



## Benito

Flash is working for me with Lion 10.7.1

I assume you've updated to the latest version of Flash? I think there was an update in the past week.


----------



## Lawrence

Benito said:


> Flash is working for me with Lion 10.7.1
> 
> I assume you've updated to the latest version of Flash? I think there was an update in the past week.


Thanks. I'll have a look,
I'm using my external drive running 10.6.8 in the meantime.


----------



## Lawrence

The only thing I like about Lion is iTunes works better in 10.7 compared to 10.6,
Otherwise 10.6 works a lot faster for me on my Mac Mini with 8gb of ram.


----------



## monokitty

Lawrence said:


> The only thing I like about Lion is iTunes works better in 10.7 compared to 10.6,
> Otherwise 10.6 works a lot faster for me on my Mac Mini with 8gb of ram.


Specs of the Mac mini?


----------



## Lawrence

Lars said:


> Specs of the Mac mini?


Mac Mini 2.4 Intel Core 2 Duo
8 GB 1067 MHz DDR3

OSX 10.6.8 on a Newertech 500 gb external and 10.7.1 on the internal 320 gb drive.

I still can't get pogo.com to work using the newest Flash player and the newest Java,
It's weird, That site works just fine under OSX 10.6.8, But it won't work under OSX 10.7.1

I can't get their games to run, How frustrating,
I have to keep switching back to OSX 10.6.8 if I want to play my online games.


----------



## monokitty

Lawrence said:


> Mac Mini 2.4 Intel Core 2 Duo
> 8 GB 1067 MHz DDR3
> 
> OSX 10.6.8 on a Newertech 500 gb external and 10.7.1 on the internal 320 gb drive.
> 
> I still can't get pogo.com to work using the newest Flash player and the newest Java,
> It's weird, That site works just fine under OSX 10.6.8, But it won't work under OSX 10.7.1
> 
> I can't get their games to run, How frustrating,
> I have to keep switching back to OSX 10.6.8 if I want to play my online games.


My Mac mini is a 2.0/4GB and Flash runs fine. Did you install this version? Download Adobe Flash Player for Mac - Web browser plug-in (release candidate). MacUpdate.com.

If not, install it. (The 11.0.1.129 version, beta.)


----------



## MacDoc

I finally bailed entirely on Lion. Variety of issues and annoyances. Not worth the hassle.


----------



## Lawrence

Lars said:


> My Mac mini is a 2.0/4GB and Flash runs fine. Did you install this version? Download Adobe Flash Player for Mac - Web browser plug-in (release candidate). MacUpdate.com.
> 
> If not, install it. (The 11.0.1.129 version, beta.)


Nope, It doesn't work either,
Guess I'll just have to keep switching back and forth until there is a fix.

Argh!!!


----------



## SINC

Lawrence said:


> I still can't get pogo.com to work using the newest Flash player and the newest Java,
> It's weird, That site works just fine under OSX 10.6.8, But it won't work under OSX 10.7.1
> 
> I can't get their games to run, How frustrating,
> I have to keep switching back to OSX 10.6.8 if I want to play my online games.


I had exactly the same issue when I just upgraded from SL to Lion. I then zeroed out my HD using Disk Utility, did a fresh install of Lion, migrated my data back and it worked just fine. The upgrade method seems to leave remnants of something that Lion does not like. Took me about three hours, but it was worth the time. Perhaps that is your solution too.


----------



## monokitty

SINC said:


> I had exactly the same issue when I just upgraded from SL to Lion. I then zeroed out my HD using Disk Utility, did a fresh install of Lion, migrated my data back and it worked just fine. The upgrade method seems to leave remnants of something that Lion does not like. Took me about three hours, but it was worth the time. Perhaps that is your solution too.


This. Backup, reformat and install Lion w/o Snow Leopard first.


----------



## monokitty

MacDoc said:


> I finally bailed entirely on Lion. Variety of issues and annoyances. Not worth the hassle.


Interesting.

I don't see the issues other people are apparently experiencing. I installed Lion over top SL on my Mac mini at home when it was first released and has been trouble-free the entire time. I recently installed Lion on my iMac at work (10.7.1) and its performance increased dramatically. _Scratches head._


----------



## wonderings

Lars said:


> Interesting.
> 
> I don't see the issues other people are apparently experiencing. I installed Lion over top SL on my Mac mini at home when it was first released and has been trouble-free the entire time. I recently installed Lion on my iMac at work (10.7.1) and its performance increased dramatically. _Scratches head._


It might depend on what your using your Mac for.

No idea what you do with yours, but for those who just use the basics, internet, email, music, photos, etc. I bet it works perfectly. For those who use it more for work, its a different story as they have changed a few things that I know will change my work flow.

I am playing with Lion in parallels, testing some things with CS5, printers, etc. I wont be making the switch to Lion until I buy a new MacBook Pro, and thats only because I wont be able to run Snow Leopard... at least not with some fiddling.


----------



## Lawrence

That Flash Player beta is buggy, It slowed down some sites to molasses,
I had to uninstall it and reinstall Flash player 10.3

The virtual tour of the Oakville home on PML was impossible to view with the beta Flash player,
But with the older Flash 10.3 it's super fast.
Strange how some sites work, While others don't in Lion with Flash Player 10.3,
Still can't play games on Pogo.com with Lion and Flash player 10.3

Until I get a grip on fixing the problem with Flash on 10.7,
I'll just use some sites on my other hard drive running 10.6


----------



## hayesk

wonderings said:


> No idea what you do with yours, but for those who just use the basics, internet, email, music, photos, etc. I bet it works perfectly. For those who use it more for work, its a different story as they have changed a few things that I know will change my work flow.


I use my Mac "more for work" and it's fine. I use the above and XCode, Photoshop, FileMaker, VMWare, OmniOutliner, OmniGraffle, Aperture; they all work fine in Lion for me.

My biggest beef is that Mail's threaded view no longer recognizes some threads that I rely on. There's the odd bug here and there, but no show-stoppers for me.


----------



## Lawrence

I found the problem and it's very simple to fix,
It's nothing to do with Flash Player, It's Java of all things.

Went to Applications-> Utilities-> Java Preferences -> General->
"Check" box for "Enable applet plug-in and Web Start Applications"

Done

This fixed my Pogo.com website for playing online games in Lion 10.7


----------



## Kleles

Lawrence said:


> I found the problem and it's very simple to fix,
> It's nothing to do with Flash Player, It's Java of all things.
> 
> Went to Applications-> Utilities-> Java Preferences -> General->
> "Check" box for "Enable applet plug-in and Web Start Applications"
> 
> Done
> 
> This fixed my Pogo.com website for playing online games in Lion 10.7


Great, easy solution. Thanks


----------



## Lawrence

Kleles said:


> Great, easy solution. Thanks


Yeah, I don't understand Lion,
Of all the operating systems I've installed this one has got to be the most problematic,
Mostly because of all the preferences that you have to be go over before you can enjoy the benefits of the OS

Reminds me a bit of OS 7.1 and the old control panel tweaking I used to have to do.


----------



## PosterBoy

For those having troubles with Flash, I've found two options that works great:

There's a Safari extension called "YouTube 5" which forces YouTube (and a couple other video streaming sites) to use HTML 5 instead of Flash to stream content.

Chrome has Flash built right into it.

And I don't have Flash installed anymore.


----------



## tdu

I got myself a Christmas present, I upgraded my system to a 27" iMac. I am not minding Lion, except for one major issue. I am having the constant wifi dropping issue that there are about half dozen threads over 50 pages long each on the Apple support forums about. I tried about 20 fixes mentioned online, and I things have been running decent for about 2 days now. Every fix I tried till now was only temporary though and the problems sprouted up again. So I don't know what will happen. It's a massive pain in the butt though. 

The 2 pc's and my Macbook with Snow Leopard have no issues with the wireless network in my house whatsoever. Nor does the Apple TV2.


----------



## jacob.maclean

Anyone else getting frequent Kernel panics since the "upgrade"?


----------



## MacDoc

I revisited 10.7.2 after selling the Air I use for downstairs work that supported 10.6.8 - wanted to try the new Air 1.8 i7 and must say 7.2 is an improvement.....still irked by the occasional meaningless Chesire but they at removed the stupid one in Mail in the search bubble.

Tho they also appear to have removed from and to at the same time to makes it marginal for my use.

I do like some of the other views in mail so some steps forward and one step back. 

Certainly seems stable and flies on the i7 over the Core2. For $1690 the i7 13" Air is good value - and even at full brightness and the keypad backlight on I'm 6:27 left and airport on.


----------



## broad

> Tho they also appear to have removed from and to at the same time to makes it marginal for my use.


you mean in mail? click the details button on the right..


----------



## broad

after a veeerrrrryyyy slow start i have finally moved all in on lion (with the exception of my TV mini, which does frig all except play movies)

now that ive had some time to get it behaving like prior OSes again i really enjoy it. most of my major annoyances have all been mitigated by tweaks and TBH i have grown to like the monochrome look, which i initially thought was moronic. i also really like the new mail (have since the day the beta came out). now that i have wrapped my head around ical (using the plus button and telling it what to do rules) i no longer hate it, just the way it looks. it and address book are the most heinous looking things i think ive ever seen apple design

there are still things that drive me bonkers (why switch the hard drives to the bottom of the finder window. it makes no sense. why get me doing one thing for years then switch it..just TELL ME WHY DAMNIT! TELL MEEEEE)


----------



## broad

aaaand now that TV mini is on 10.7 too


----------



## Lawrence

Just noticed that my GaraphicConverter app for Lion (In OSX 10.7.2) allows me to import my
camera roll from my iPhone 4 when it is connected, Now that's a nice feature.


----------



## markw

I use a Windows PC at work and I always spend extra time getting used to the scrolling. If I could find a way to get my Work Mouse to use the scroll direction like Lion, then things would be perfect!


----------



## imobile

*Glutton for Punishment ..tried to install Lion on AGAIN 2008 Penryn MBP*



imobile said:


> Just FAILED again to install Lion to My MBP!
> Created a boot DVD after running Disk Utility from Snow Leopard Install Disk where 'supposedly 'fixed' Permissions and 'Repaired Disk". Even fixed Permissions twice...funny how same ones are 'fixed' again...(hocus pocus???)
> 
> For good measure 'ran Onyx' ...
> then installed Lion.... but after restart...nothing...no messages, just 45 mins of grey spinning!
> 
> So back to Square One?
> 
> I just do not understand why , as an operating system , Snow Leopard works so well!
> All apps just hum along in normal use ...
> 
> BUT!!!!
> 
> IF I try to boot from original SNOW LEOPARD install disk .. that takes a lot of 'noise ... click, oink , whhhhank ,,,silence, fan increases, soft 'wharrrmp' ...silence... longer silence... spinning grey wheel under Apple logo... suddenly...noise...blank screen, shuffle noise... blue...more quick paced shuffle noise...a minute of this... ( CHORUS?) ... another minute...
> silence...
> ahhh
> fan whir.....
> more 'shuffle'.... quiet.... then more 'fan whir'...
> Long ominous silence...
> 
> 
> Suddenly... well after 15 minutes from holding down C.... Mac OS and Language Op screen!
> 
> Guess it is time to give up.... erase the HD as all 'utilities' and all the Lions cannot get this f'er going in Lion!
> 
> ( sheesh...at least I made a boot Lion DVD!)
> 
> How to Create & Burn a Bootable Mac OS X Lion Install DVD




Fourteen hours ago...began to download Lion ( I have a Shaw Broadband 50 )...took forever ( failed half way..waiting, waiting, waiting... started again and two hours later...downloaded! what is wrong with Apple servers?)
Created a boot DVD .. with Disk Utility ... verified etc. 
Tried to boot from ..the Penryn ( MBP) has fresh combo copy of SL ... having been wiped/restored after last fail attempt to instal Lion so hoped to boot from DVD, format the HD again using install Disk Utility but... NINE hours later I have grey screen, Apple logo and spinning wheel...... no noise, no heat, just sitting there, lifeless but spinning? And computer is cool to touch (?)

The Penryn worked just fine in Snow Leopard! It actually beats my 27" 2010 Core i7 iMac with 8GB ram running 10.72 side by side in a start up! All apps such as iPhoto, Aperture, iMovie and navigation software with real time charting (Mac ENC by GPS NavX) works fine .

The ONLY reason I want Lion on the MBP is to synch the computers via iCloud as I've lost the useful Mobile Me synch. And iTunes match might have been useful too. 

Digression?
That said I'm not impressed with photo stream. .. who wants junky, unedited pics popping up everywhere ( which you can't delete???) ~ prefer to deal with pics in iPhoto or Aperture and much prefer usefulness of the Mobile Me Gallery .

But I wander from the main point, WHY is the MBP sitting to my right, looking grey and just spinning after ten hours? I wouldn't boast a logo in that condition!
Several of the 'expert' articles on DVD instal warn that it takes 'awhile' to work...but common.. ten hours??!?? 

Any ideas?

S^%&#CxYtZ^%@(l


UPDATE.....
Forced Shutdown from 'spin state'
Restarted!
Logged in...working fine in S/L?
InstallESD.dmg still on desktop? 
WEIRD?

...iPhone 4S pic...not bad quality huh?

Second pic shows the crated Lion Install DVD ...all there!


----------



## hayesk

I've downloaded 10.7.0, 10.7.1, 10.7.2, and none of them took a long time. I wonder if your Internet connection was the problem.

As for your MacBook, something is likely wrong. It doesn't take any more time than previous versions of MacOS to install and boot. Maybe the installer was saved on a bad block on a disk.


----------



## imobile

*Bad block seems to be possible candidate...*



hayesk said:


> I've downloaded 10.7.0, 10.7.1, 10.7.2, and none of them took a long time. I wonder if your Internet connection was the problem.
> 
> As for your MacBook, something is likely wrong. It doesn't take any more time than previous versions of MacOS to install and boot. Maybe the installer was saved on a bad block on a disk.



Bad block possible?
Am going to try the USB flash drive install method as I do want to achieve a 'clean install' as DVD method failed!
Prepare Flash Drive for OS X Lion Installer
I have 50 GB of free space on HD.
As for internet...well I have Broadband 50!

Maybe link to Apple was deficient/overloaded??


----------



## monokitty

@imobile - why are you fighting nature? And by that, why did you burn a Lion disc to boot from? You're just begging for issues going down that road. Once the Installer finishes downloading from the App Store, double-click it to start the installation process. It will create a recovery partition, reboot the unit to it, and then allow you start the installation of Lion, or, first move to Disk Utility to erase said destination volume and _then_ install Lion.


----------



## imobile

Lars said:


> @imobile - why are you fighting nature? And by that, why did you burn a Lion disc to boot from? You're just begging for issues going down that road. Once the Installer finishes downloading from the App Store, double-click it to start the installation process. It will create a recovery partition, reboot the unit to it, and then allow you start the installation of Lion, or, first move to Disk Utility to erase said destination volume and _then_ install Lion.


2018 ~COLOR="Blue"]Ok, I'll try the direct install again! 
Nothing to lose...as all back up! and if it works I have a boot disk and boot stick... lol!
We'll see!
[/COLOR]


2058 Thirty minutes later.... see photo Pablo's Gems 4306!
After the Installer 'restarted' the MBP ...over 35minutes ago, this is all I have... grey screen, Apple logo and spinning wheel!
And a VERY faint whir..if ear pressed to laptop!

2111 Still spinning... this is not normal.

How long does this take?


Tried that first time...way back in July.
Installed no problems on Core i7 iMac - but on the MBP a failure!
It started process, supposedly installed and restarted.
And then just spun, spun for hours!
Didn't install.


2205
Thanks for the responses!
Giving up!
It didn't install this time either.
Goes thru process, auto restarts, then NOTHING! Spin , spin with Apple Logo as per pic below!
At least the MBP booted (after a 5 mins) from Snow Leopard install disk...so tedious work now to 
restore the old 2008 2.5 Core2 Duo Penryn back to Snow Leopard!
Maybe not too tedious ... ran Disk Utility, fixed permissions/repaired disk and Holy Mother of Macs...
it is starting in SL ...10.6.8.

Unreal...it is just like old pre iCloud times!
Pic 4310...'"The universe is unfolding ....or old Macs should just be that...old Macs!"





And the download is not fast.. despite my Brodband 50 Internet! 
I'm trying to download fresh install copy to my newer/faster iMac rather than to MBP ( in case it installed disk image on a bad block) and it says nearly 8 hours to download!


----------



## AquaAngel

Reason number one why i wait until it gets perfected. i am downgrading mine to 10.5 on my macpro. even my 10.6.x is a bit funny kind of running at some time


----------



## imobile

*If one waits for perfection...*



AquaAngel said:


> Reason number one why i wait until it gets perfected. i am downgrading mine to 10.5 on my macpro. even my 10.6.x is a bit funny kind of running at some time



One might wait a long time!
I find Snow Leopard trouble free on MBP.... I just wanted to have it in synch with my desktop! And 
upgraded iPhone!
And iTunes match sounded attractive!
As said earlier, I already miss the synch features of Mobile Me.
And lament the soon to be lost Gallery!
SmugMug, here I come?
Lion has 'antiquated' my Penryn!

However the MBP tethers with my iPhone thanks to my 6GB data ...so Lion or no Lion, I can still use it on the water! And use it for navigation!


----------



## imobile

*If one waits for perfection...*



AquaAngel said:


> Reason number one why i wait until it gets perfected. i am downgrading mine to 10.5 on my macpro. even my 10.6.x is a bit funny kind of running at some time



One might wait a long time!
I find Snow Leopard trouble free on MBP.... I just wanted to have it in synch with my desktop! And 
upgraded iPhone!
And iTunes match sounded attractive!
As said earlier, I already miss the synch features of Mobile Me.
And lament the soon to be lost Gallery!
SmugMug, here I come?
Lion has 'antiquated' my Penryn!

However the MBP tethers with my iPhone thanks to my 6GB data ...so Lion or no Lion, I can still use it on the water! And use it for navigation!

Attach an old iPhone snap of laptop!


----------



## imobile

*Not sure why burning a disk is 'begging for issues' ?*



Lars said:


> @imobile - why are you fighting nature? And by that, why did you burn a Lion disc to boot from? You're just begging for issues going down that road. Once the Installer finishes downloading from the App Store, double-click it to start the installation process. It will create a recovery partition, reboot the unit to it, and then allow you start the installation of Lion, or, first move to Disk Utility to erase said destination volume and _then_ install Lion.



Anyway, the MBP will NOT update!
Either from App Store Download , or DVD or Flash Drive.
Even after a complete erase of the MBP's HD!
It says it will restart and ...15 hours later, nada!

The MBP (Penyrn 2.5GHz) was a refurb.... but supposedly it is Lion upgradeable!
For some reason this one mustn't have read its specs as it refuses to cooperate!


However on the POSITIVE side!
Time Machine as a restore works extremely well once one boots back into MBP with the original Snow Leopard Install DVD.
I ran Disk Utility before restoring, and apart from slow Spotlight Indexing all seems just fine in Snow Leopard!


And as for the cynics, I took my freshly created Lion DVD and booted a 2010 Core i5 iMac with it 
and had no trouble installing Lion on it! Took less than an hour and is running with no problems!

Guess my MBP is destined to be Lion less eh?

Update ~ Just ran Spotlight, and yes the Install Lion App is still in Applications folder. Sigh!
Do I delete and try to install from DVD again?


----------



## pm-r

Try the install from the "Lion App is still in Applications folder" or if or when that doesn't work just bypass that and maybe try Apple's recommended method using a clean Lion download, restart method.

PS: I hope your navigation software works and is supported in Lion as I wouldn't want to see you hit any rocks or reefs etc.

EDIT: Maybe the Lion non-install is trying to tell you something for the software you've got installed and you're using in SL and maybe it's suggesting in it's non-install feedback fashion that you should maybe just stay with and use Snow Leopard??? Hmmm...???


----------



## imobile

*Given up...*



pm-r said:


> Try the install from the "Lion App is still in Applications folder" or if or when that doesn't work just bypass that and maybe try Apple's recommended method using a clean Lion download, restart method.
> 
> PS: I hope your navigation software works and is supported in Lion as I wouldn't want to see you hit any rocks or reefs etc.
> 
> EDIT: Maybe the Lion non-install is trying to tell you something for the software you've got installed and you're using in SL and maybe it's suggesting in it's non-install feedback fashion that you should maybe just stay with and use Snow Leopard??? Hmmm...???


I'll stick with SL on the laptop.
It is a 2008...love the matte screen!
Tried the download install, ( left it spinning all night) the DVD burn install and USB flash install ( at least have two copies) all to no avail!
Install Lion Using a Bootable DVD

No worries re Lion ( or SL) and navigation! Mac ENC ( and it predecessor GPS NavX) run fine in both Lion and SL.
Even have a copy of Starry Night Pro on laptop so can nav by the stars!

Here's a snap n drag you might recognise from iMac ...


----------



## pm-r

Yup, that looks very familiar. We lived in the house at the head of Butchart Cove for 30 years until we had to move out 14 years ago now, and had our Campion 230 Victoria I/O moored in front in the bay. It even got frozen in a few times when it would freeze over.

I guess your Console install logs don't show anything useful??

But I would use Disk Utility and have a look at your drive, but first install its Debug menu and set the options as shown:
Hardmac.com : Le "Macbidouille" in English - Activating the Debug menu in Disk Utility
Enable Disk Utility's Debug Menu

I ran into a strange odd 399.9GB un-named and unmountable fantom partition after a Lion install on an external FW backup drive last month and had a H of a time in removing it and regain the HD space. And it was only available to be seen with the Debug menu installed and its options to show all partitions/volumes.

In doing so, I also discovered that the Recovery HD partition was completely FUBAR so I just removed it as well.

You may just have a similar volume preventing the Lion install due to a lack of space that the Finder may not even show.


----------



## imobile

*Ssssshhh...Like Macs it never freezes*



pm-r said:


> Yup, that looks very familiar. We lived in the house at the head of Butchart Cove for 30 years until we had to move out 14 years ago now, and had our Campion 230 Victoria I/O moored in front in the bay. It even got frozen in a few times when it would freeze over.
> 
> I guess your Console install logs don't show anything useful??
> 
> But I would use Disk Utility and have a look at your drive, but first install its Debug menu and set the options as shown:
> Hardmac.com : Le "Macbidouille" in English - Activating the Debug menu in Disk Utility
> Enable Disk Utility's Debug Menu
> 
> I ran into a strange odd 399.9GB un-named and unmountable fantom partition after a Lion install on an external FW backup drive last month and had a H of a time in removing it and regain the HD space. And it was only available to be seen with the Debug menu installed and its options to show all partitions/volumes.
> 
> In doing so, I also discovered that the Recovery HD partition was completely FUBAR so I just removed it as well.
> 
> You may just have a similar volume preventing the Lion install due to a lack of space that the Finder may not even show.


Like Mac... it NEVER freezes here in Victoria!
Don't drive down my house price, might need equity to but a new MBP in 2012? 

Ran Disk utility from SL disk... partition etc looks normal!
Will however tonight apply your advice re DE BUG!
Thanks ..

Paul

P.s. At least I know my DVD Lion Install works Did on a 21" iMac!!


----------



## monokitty

imobile said:


> Anyway, the MBP will NOT update!
> Either from App Store Download , or DVD or Flash Drive.
> Even after a complete erase of the MBP's HD!
> It says it will restart and ...15 hours later, nada!
> 
> The MBP (Penyrn 2.5GHz) was a refurb.... but supposedly it is Lion upgradeable!
> For some reason this one mustn't have read its specs as it refuses to cooperate!
> 
> 
> However on the POSITIVE side!
> Time Machine as a restore works extremely well once one boots back into MBP with the original Snow Leopard Install DVD.
> I ran Disk Utility before restoring, and apart from slow Spotlight Indexing all seems just fine in Snow Leopard!
> 
> 
> And as for the cynics, I took my freshly created Lion DVD and booted a 2010 Core i5 iMac with it
> and had no trouble installing Lion on it! Took less than an hour and is running with no problems!
> 
> Guess my MBP is destined to be Lion less eh?
> 
> Update ~ Just ran Spotlight, and yes the Install Lion App is still in Applications folder. Sigh!
> Do I delete and try to install from DVD again?


I'm suspicious you may have a hardware problem; Lion may be pickier and thus the symptom(s) do not show under Snow Leopard - just a guess, though. I'd start with swapping out both RAM modules for another and re-try.


----------



## pm-r

imobile said:


> Like Mac... it NEVER freezes here in Victoria!
> Don't drive down my house price, might need equity to but a new MBP in 2012?
> 
> Ran Disk utility from SL disk... partition etc looks normal!
> Will however tonight apply your advice re DE BUG!
> Thanks ..
> 
> Paul
> 
> P.s. At least I know my DVD Lion Install works Did on a 21" iMac!!



I said Brentwood Bay not Victoria so your house price is safe. 
It's not much further north but we can be quite a few degrees colder here in the winter and often quite a few degrees warmer in the summer.

You won't see any "fantom" HD partitions with DU until the Debug menu and its viewing options set.

I only went looking last month as a quick calculation for what the Finder and DU said and I was missing over 400GB and nothing obvious or showing without using the Debug option.

I think I still have some of the screen shots I was going to post to ehmac for some help and suggestions, before I got the DU Debug installed, and then took some more shots for my own use for comparison.


----------



## imobile

After several months on Lion, I wish I had the old Conflict Catcher of OS 7.6 days! Have found Lion painfully slow to load, Safari is frustrating , hanging on too many websites AND is impossible to load Lion onto a 2008 Core 2 Duo, a once top of the "Line" MBP. 
AND, on a Core 7 iMac, data saved in Keychain is inaccessible, just gone! Very disappointing!
End of rant!
Happy New Year!


----------



## pm-r

I will admit that I and Lion didn't and don't get along well and I lasted a week at most before I went back and used my SL volume which I still do 90% of the time, but I'd suggest that there's something amiss with your Macs, and they are much more recent than any Mac model that I have for our use, and all of them work well. Well, at least the ones that at least support and can run Lion.

Conflict Catcher had some uses, but as I recall, it could also implement some conflicts if one wasn't careful with its own implemented conflicts.

But the Mac OS X has Console as a sort of replacement, that may provide some hints and problems, IF one is able to decipher any of its context properly.

Have you had a look as to what Console may be logging and showing???

I'm not sure about what your "data saved in Keychain is inaccessible" is all about, but obviously not a normal working Mac OS thing.


----------



## SmudgeTheCat

I found this on the net and am just inquiring if it is feasible before giving it a go on my Oh-so-slow Lion
installation. Any ideas or comments?

Ok guys I had the exact same problem but I think I found a solution. I just did it about 30 minutes ago and since then my MacBook Pro is running just like it used to with snow leopard. No guarantees that i fixed the problem but this is what i did. I went to Applications>Utilities>Disk Utility. I then ran a verify disk scan and found that there were many problems with me Macintosh HD drive. It said I needed an install disk of lion to fix. Since there is no disk I thought I would experiment and this is what I did.
**** 1) shut down my computer and then started it back up while holding down the alt key. (this should bring up two disk options to run your computer)
**** 2) I chose the second option (I believe it is called something like "recovery disk" but dont quote me on that. you want to select the one that is NOT Macintosh HD)
**** 3) It loaded and then gave me four choises of what to do. I clicked disk utility.
***** 4) From there I ran the verify disk scan again then clicked repair disk.
**** 5) I then ran the verify disk permissions scan and then repaired those as well.
**** 6) then I restarted my computer and spotlight indexed the computer (i let it do its thing without running any programs) once it was done my computer worked so much faster and for the first time I can say, I AM GLAD I HAVE LION! ￼ I hope this is a permenant fix. Please let me know if you try this and how it works for you ￼
Good Luck!!!


----------



## pm-r

I was going to reply again to imobile's post with a sugestion that often worked with previous Mac OS X installs.

With Safari, use its clear ALL history and include the Top Sites option and Empty Cache.

Head off to Apple and download the 10.7.2 Combo update.
OS X Lion Update 10.7.2 Client Combo

Shut down the Mac, wait a bit and then boot up using 'Safe Boot Mode' by holding down the shift key until the spinning gear wheel shoes, select admin user and log in.

Run Disk Utility to Repair permissions and also Verify boot volume.

Open and run the COMBO Update that was downloaded, and let it do it's thing. And DO NOT run or have ANY other apps running.

When it's finally finished, do another restart, and a DU permissions repair/verify again and run Software Update and install and repeat until Software Update says your 'Up to Date'.

This method used to often fix many a goofy Mac OS X install with previous OS X versions.


----------



## SmudgeTheCat

Thanks. I already have 10.7.2. Are you suggesting to reinstall it along with the instructions
you provided?


----------



## pm-r

SmudgeTheCat said:


> Thanks. I already have 10.7.2. Are you suggesting to reinstall it along with the instructions
> you provided?



Yup.


----------



## SmudgeTheCat

Thanks again and Happy New Year.


----------



## MacDaddy68

Wow.. I can't believe this thread I started is still going!

After now having Lion installed for over 5+ months, I'd have to say it's still proven to be a total success for me. Aside from a few Rosetta programs I lost, I really haven't run into any issues at all. I haven't experienced any of the glitches that some of the posters here have noted. And i have a pretty full system and use it daily - nearly a TB of video, tons of apps, Parallels and a bunch of Windows 7 stuff too - I couldn't be happier with it's performance.

For anyone still on the fence about upgrading to Lion - I'd say it's high time to try it out.


----------



## MX-V

MacDaddy68 said:


> For anyone still on the fence about upgrading to Lion - I'd say it's high time to try it out.


Just to add my 2 cents... I have Lion on a second partition since it came out and I still haven't warmed up to it. Offers little to nothing for my needs right now and I still get annoyed by the iOS scrollbars and Mission Control. 

Also the zoom bug still isn't fixed.

Otherwise a nice OS, just not what I need.


----------



## fjnmusic

I have seen the light. Switched my MacBook (c. 2008) over after cloning SL 10.6.8 to an external bootable drive. Taking things cautiously, but very impressed so far.


----------



## PosterBoy

MX-V said:


> Just to add my 2 cents... I have Lion on a second partition since it came out and I still haven't warmed up to it. Offers little to nothing for my needs right now and I still get annoyed by the iOS scrollbars and Mission Control.
> 
> Also the zoom bug still isn't fixed.
> 
> Otherwise a nice OS, just not what I need.


Question: what annoys you about mission control? It's the first version of expose and spaces that I actually use!


----------



## 9780

PosterBoy said:


> Question: what annoys you about mission control? It's the first version of expose and spaces that I actually use!


yeah I always wonder this myself...

compared to Tiger/Leopard's version where all the windows were thrown all over the screen with no rhyme or order, or SL's version where small windows often ended up bigger than maximized browser windows - but hey at least all windows of an app were together...

The new version groups apps together, has a four-fingers-down trackpad gesture that shows only windows from the current app as well as its minimized windows, and at the same time shows you an overview of all virtual desktops and full-screen apps. And you can 3fingers-swipe left or right to switch space without losing your "exposé" view of anything.

Way way way cleaner than before.


----------



## Macified

Got my son a new MBP for Christmas so decided to install Lion on one of the older systems we now have no use for. 

First and most glaring problem for me. Apple dropped SMB support. My Synology NAS with it's TBs of stored media and data is no longer useable. This in and of itself is a deal breaker. 

Apple is backing into it's walled garden again and, this time, I'm not going with them. Unless this type of nonsense gets sorted out I'll be taking my chances with Windows for my platform. Good-bye Apple. Fortunately, despite what I was told by Apple reps, the refurb MBP I bought my son shipped with Snow Leopard and isn't a useless paperweight.


----------



## John Clay

Macified said:


> Got my son a new MBP for Christmas so decided to install Lion on one of the older systems we now have no use for.
> 
> First and most glaring problem for me. Apple dropped SMB support. My Synology NAS with it's TBs of stored media and data is no longer useable. This in and of itself is a deal breaker.
> 
> Apple is backing into it's walled garden again and, this time, I'm not going with them. Unless this type of nonsense gets sorted out I'll be taking my chances with Windows for my platform. Good-bye Apple. Fortunately, despite what I was told by Apple reps, the refurb MBP I bought my son shipped with Snow Leopard and isn't a useless paperweight.


Apple did not drop SMB client support from Lion. They did drop SMB server support, but that doesn't impact connecting to an SMB server.


----------



## Macified

John Clay said:


> Apple did not drop SMB client support from Lion. They did drop SMB server support, but that doesn't impact connecting to an SMB server.


Yes, doing some research on this now. Installing the latest update for the NAS to see if I get access back. Crossing fingers.

Will report back and eat my words if necessary.


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## pm-r

Maybe the hack suggestions might help at:
Mac OS X Lion Samba and AFP workarounds | frankly at a glance.


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## Macified

Macified said:


> Yes, doing some research on this now. Installing the latest update for the NAS to see if I get access back. Crossing fingers.
> 
> Will report back and eat my words if necessary.


Latest software for NAS has returned access from the Finder. There are rumblings on the manufacturers forum that there are some ongoing issues but I do have access (at least for now). Yes, I am eating my words.


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## CubaMark

I've been on Lion (on my new MBP) for two months now... mostly fine, but some little sniggling things are bothering me. I keep coming across odd GUI behaviour. iPhoto, for example, opened up a series of thumbnails across the bottom of its window, which overlapped into the album column area... and in the Finder, I frequently find it not seeming to be aware of its own open Finder windows (i.e. wont' cycle through them - but they can be activated with a mouse click). Just little strangeness things all around...


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## fjnmusic

Natural scrolling is not that easy to get used to do for me. It'd be nice if you could do traditional scrolling for up/down, say, but natural for the left/right pages within Safari.


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## pm-r

fjnmusic said:


> Natural scrolling is not that easy to get used to do for me. It'd be nice if you could do traditional scrolling for up/down, say, but natural for the left/right pages within Safari.



I lasted maybe a week with Lion before I want back to SL, as there were just too many disadvantages for my liking with the latest Apple cat, but you should have a choice depending on your input device to change it.

By default, OS X Lion enables what Apple's choosing to call "natural" mode, in which the content moves in the direction your finger is moving. To reverse it so that the scroll bars, rather than the content, follow your finger, uncheck the checkbox for Scroll direction: natural.

The default method requires a bit of muscle memory retraining to use.

Click System Preferences and then go to the Trackpad or Mouse preferences panel, depending on which you're adjusting. There you'll find the "Scroll direction" setting. In the Mouse preferences pane, this option is located under the Point & Click tab. In the Trackpad pane, it's under Scroll & Zoom.


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## fjnmusic

pm-r said:


> I lasted maybe a week with Lion before I want back to SL, as there were just too many disadvantages for my liking with the latest Apple cat, but you should have a choice depending on your input device to change it.
> 
> By default, OS X Lion enables what Apple's choosing to call "natural" mode, in which the content moves in the direction your finger is moving. To reverse it so that the scroll bars, rather than the content, follow your finger, uncheck the checkbox for Scroll direction: natural.
> 
> The default method requires a bit of muscle memory retraining to use.
> 
> Click System Preferences and then go to the Trackpad or Mouse preferences panel, depending on which you're adjusting. There you'll find the "Scroll direction" setting. In the Mouse preferences pane, this option is located under the Point & Click tab. In the Trackpad pane, it's under Scroll & Zoom.


Yeah, done that already. Like I say, I'd like to use retro scrolling for most things, but I like "natural" scrolling better for flicking web pages left or right in Safari. As far as i know, you can't mix and match these things.


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## pm-r

OK, which Mac are you using?? His: Intel iMac 20" 2.16 or Macbook 2.1 GHz and/or what input device are you using.

I understood but possibly incorrectly, that one could still use at least the trackpad and the "flick" method regardless of the scroll option selected. But that's a bummer if one can't choose and use the options one wants. Maybe there's a semi-hidden option to do so and to get the new cat to do what you want?????


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## fjnmusic

pm-r said:


> OK, which Mac are you using?? His: Intel iMac 20" 2.16 or Macbook 2.1 GHz and/or what input device are you using.
> 
> I understood but possibly incorrectly, that one could still use at least the trackpad and the "flick" method regardless of the scroll option selected. But that's a bummer if one can't choose and use the options one wants. Maybe there's a semi-hidden option to do so and to get the new cat to do what you want?????


I use both everyday, actually, as well as my iPhone. But it's the same regardless. If you choose "natural" scrolling, the "page" or "paper" always moves in the direction you "grab" it and "push" it, as it would on a touchscreen surface, which for the time being still feels unnatural. I'm used to moving in the direction of the scrollbar to get what I want. When you turn off "natural" scrolling, then you get a very odd effect in Safari when flicking from one web page to the next, not to mention when going from one desktop to another—you'd have to move the opposite to where you want to go. I suppose it's just like flying a helicopter; I just have to get used to it.


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## SINC

Hmmm, I don't use natural scrolling, I prefer to use retro, even though I can use natural without issue on my iPad. I guess it seems 'natural' on the iPad, but for sure not on my MBP. That noted, I can easily scroll sideways between web pages with a two finger swipe to the left taking me to the previous page while in retro mode.


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## fjnmusic

Starting to get the hang of natural scrolling now, and impressed that most of my old apps do work in Lion. Still, glad that I waited, as the list of Roaring Apps that are compatible seems to have grown over time.


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## PosterBoy

I left natural scrolling on and it took about 3 days for retro scrolling on other machines to start feeling weird.


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## BillyPrefect

I am in a Windows work environment, and the "natural" scrolling stuck so bad and quick that now daily I find myself thinking there is something wrong with my mouse at work as the pages won't move... due of course to me scrolling the wrong way from the top of a page.


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## fjnmusic

I decided to put Launchpad in the bottom right hot corner of my screen, so it's a snap to go into or out of this mode. Doesn't do much useful yet, but it sure does look cool. I think the ability to sort apps into folders will help.


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## fjnmusic

Installing Lion on my iMac, but it's stalled with 1 minute left to go in the installation process. It's been sitting at 1 minute left for about four and a half hours now. Is this normal? If I shut down, I'm afraid of what might happen. Advice?


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## steviewhy

sudo rm -rf /


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## SINC

That was common for me every time I installed Snow Leopard. Like Steviewhy notes, I just did a force shutdown and restart and all would be well.


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## fjnmusic

Thank you Obi-wan Kenobi's--you're my only hope.


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## MX-V

PosterBoy said:


> Question: what annoys you about mission control? It's the first version of expose and spaces that I actually use!


I'd say it the per-application grouping. When I use exposé, I'm looking for a particular window, not an app.

It might sound silly, but with exposé it goes like:
-Where's that window?
-Exposé
-Ah, here it is.

With Mission Control:
-Where's that window?
-MC
-Damn, was it in Pages or TextEdit?
-Fiddle around ungrouping windows
-Ah, here it is.

Makes any sense?

Also, I don't use Spaces much, so having a row of desktops at the top of the screen wasting good real estate is an annoyance to me.


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## MacDaddy68

I'm now experiencing my first issues with Lion. For some reason, most of my animations (Dock, Mission Control, Genie) have now started to become a bit choppy/laggy. It's not horrible enough to be able to capture it on video but definitely not as silky smooth as they once were. Activity Monitor shows no CPU load, so I don't get why this would be happening. 

I just upgraded to 16GB of Ram, but that should help, not hinder... wouldn't it?


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## cap10subtext

My wife's awesome refurb macbook pro wouldn't stay connected to my brother's Rogers Wireless modem, tried every remedy on the interwebs and then resorted to total restart, delete and re-add to the network preferences EVERY time it lost connected (often). That was completely ridiculous. No problems with any other network on her computer, no problems with any other devices. Only real difference between her's and mine:
Mine - 10.6.8
Hers - 10.7.2

Lion scares me...


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## pm-r

MacDaddy68 said:


> I'm now experiencing my first issues with Lion. For some reason, most of my animations (Dock, Mission Control, Genie) have now started to become a bit choppy/laggy. It's not horrible enough to be able to capture it on video but definitely not as silky smooth as they once were. Activity Monitor shows no CPU load, so I don't get why this would be happening.
> 
> I just upgraded to 16GB of Ram, but that should help, not hinder... wouldn't it?



Definitely way too much RAM installed on your Mac MacDaddy68, and may I suggest you remove half and just send it to me to use in my next newer Mac.  

Unfortunately your'er not the only Lion OS user that some are still suffering from the "OS animations choppy" problem, even with the latest clean installed versions.

Just Google the problem and it seems that Mac OS Lion and choppy seem to go hand in hand for many users.

PS: I'll bet that your Activity Monitor is showing that you're only using a fraction of the total RAM you have installed. Unless one or more of the chips is a bit wonky and causing the problem, which I doubt.

Does it still do choppy stuff if you shut down and boot up using Safe Boot Mode? If not, maybe some third party non-Apple graphic thing causing the problem???


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## tdu

cap10subtext said:


> My wife's awesome refurb macbook pro wouldn't stay connected to my brother's Rogers Wireless modem, tried every remedy on the interwebs and then resorted to total restart, delete and re-add to the network preferences EVERY time it lost connected (often). That was completely ridiculous. No problems with any other network on her computer, no problems with any other devices. Only real difference between her's and mine:
> Mine - 10.6.8
> Hers - 10.7.2
> 
> Lion scares me...


I had this issue from the first time I powered up the 27" iMac I bought in December. I was able to solve the problem through tips in a thread 100's (yes 100's) of pages long on the Apple Support forums. I had to set a new location, renew DCHP, erase all previous network settings from Keychain, start from recovery partition and run repairs. It's worked fine for the last month. There are tons of people in that thread who can't remedy the problem though and have Apple Store staff telling them it's because they must have screwed up updating to Lion. Not a great excuse when a ton of people in that thread have brand new Macs.

To the other poster was noticing choppiness, but upgrading my Ram to 8GB seemed to completely solve those issues. Maybe there is issues with the RAM?


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## CubaMark

IN case anyone is still feeling frustrated with Lion's "locked file" "feature":

*10.7: Setting duration before files are locked*



> There is a control to change the length of time before a file is 'locked' by Lion.
> 
> In System Preferences » Time Machine » Options, there is a control to set the length of time after the last edit before files are locked.
> 
> The options are 1 day, 1 week, 2 weeks (default), 1 month, 1 year.


(MacOSXhints - MacWorld)


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## hbp

I'm going to be downgrading to Snow Leopard when I get some time. Lion has been highly disappointing for me.


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## SINC

CubaMark said:


> IN case anyone is still feeling frustrated with Lion's "locked file" "feature":
> 
> *10.7: Setting duration before files are locked*
> 
> There is a control to change the length of time before a file is 'locked' by Lion.
> 
> In System Preferences » Time Machine » Options, there is a control to set the length of time after the last edit before files are locked.
> 
> The options are 1 day, 1 week, 2 weeks (default), 1 month, 1 year.
> 
> (MacOSXhints - MacWorld)


You didn't mention the option I use: NEVER

Just uncheck the box:


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## CubaMark

*Another Lion tip for QuickLook:
*


> Previewing a document in Mac OS X Lion using Quick Look? Want to open it in an application instead? You don't have to use the default application that Quick Look suggests in the top righthand corner of the preview window. Just click and hold down on the "Open with..." button to see several available options.











(Image courtesy of Hongkiat)
(Lifehacker)

It's funny - I've used the "Open with Preview" or whatever, but never thought to keep the mouse button down... very useful!


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