# The Super Shuffle....what a rip off!



## cutehinano (Mar 8, 2005)

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000857035387/

From engadget:
" You hear that? It’s the sound of Stevie J. letting loose a thousand lawyers on the people at Luxpro who think that they’re somehow not going to get the crap sued out of them over the “Super Shuffle,” a flash-based MP3 player that looks so very, very familiar to us. Supposedly the Super Shuffle MX-575D/1075D has the same weight as the iPod shuffle, but is slightly larger (8.4 x 2.5 x 0.84mm for the shuffle vs. 8.5 x 2.5 x 0.97 for the Super Shuffle) and comes with a built-in FM tuner, comes in 512MB and 1GB flavors, and offers support for playback of MP3, WMA, and WAV files."

Link to actual site: http://www.luxpro-corp.com/e_575d.htm

I wonder if it works with iTunes? They'll probably get a letter from Apple's legal department soon...


----------



## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

Looks exactly the same. Could this be the Chinese company who actually makes the shuffles?


----------



## CN (Sep 3, 2004)

Is this a joke? This isn't similarity, they are the exact same! The earbuds even look like apple earbuds. 

Its the iPod shuffle's slightly overweight evil twin brother!!!


----------



## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

Do they really think they'll survive this?? LOL! Apple's gonna carve them a new one, man.


----------



## yatko (Oct 9, 2004)

If this was true and the thing did not require any software to transfer MP3 files this will sell like bread and butter.

Very unlikely it will reach to NA though (even if the product and site is real)
http://www.luxpro-corp.com/e_165e.htm


----------



## miguelsanchez (Feb 1, 2005)

well, i hate to say it but that's what happens when you send your technology overseas to be manufactured. currently the chinese "reverse engineer" just about everything that is manufactured there, and there really is no copyright or patent protection for corporations that have been ripped off. this is not the first nor the last instance of such blatant ripoffs:


----------



## miguelsanchez (Feb 1, 2005)

update: these guys even have a booth at cebit in germany this week, and they're showing the super suffle there! now that's bold.


----------



## Heart (Jan 16, 2001)

*That is incredible....*

Could you get any closer?


----------



## Principal (Nov 28, 2004)

Kudo's to them for putting an FM tuner in it, and shame on Apple for not adding one.
Here is Apples, "keep it simple" mentality again... just like the one button mouse... as if a two button mouse with a scroll wheel is way to complex for Mac users! yeh right!
End Rant


----------



## iMan (Feb 22, 2005)

Yep it certainly looks the same. I think they will sell well because of the FM tuner. I sure wish they had them built into the original ipod shuffle.


----------



## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

Get a load of this one!

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-12/18/content_401235.htm

Quote:

_"Chinese automakers must enhance their independent development capabilities, instead of copying others. Otherwise, we will lag further behind foreign rivals," Jia Xinguang with the China Automotive Industry Consulting and Development Corp, said in an interview with China Daily._


----------



## andreww (Nov 20, 2002)

Odd that there doesn't seem to be any purchasing info.


----------



## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

Looks to me like this is just a big hoax.


----------



## uwbill (Feb 9, 2005)

ok... just to clarify, that super shuffle is from a Taiwaness company


----------



## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

Their website has it listed with their other models, and it seems pretty real. The pictures of their booth at the show in Germany also look real. Seems like a really stupid joke if it were one.

I think they're gonna get the pants sued off them. They've copied a product design and marketing image. 

If they are cheaper than the Apple shuffle, these things will sell like hotcakes... image if they worked with the autofill feature as well?? lol... man would that be the icing on the cake.


----------



## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

uwbill said:


> ok... just to clarify, that super shuffle is from a Taiwanese company


Yes, I wrote 'Chinese' above because I saw that the alternate language was Chinese. After looking up their address, the are located in Taiwan. Of course, much of what these Taiwanese companies is produced on the mainland.

The Shuffles are made in China anyway, aren't they? Black market overruns and counterfeit products are widely available. It's impossible to keep track of all products that are produced by these contractors.

It's the ingenuity to add features which I find hard to believe in this story.


----------



## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

I'm starting to wonder if this is for real or not... the pictures make it look kinda fake.. but there is a seem on the back of it, which the real Shuffle doesn't have.

Also, the voice recorder function seems unlikey, because how would it work? How would you know how long a recording is, how much room is left, etc. The radio function would be extremely limited as well without the LCD...

Maybe the whole thing is a hoax. The product, the picture of the booth at this 'show' in Germany (anybody heard of this show before) and even the website could be a hoax, anybody ever hear of this company before?


----------



## cutehinano (Mar 8, 2005)

I just tried going to the luxpro site with the super shuffle and it's gone. (http://www.luxpro-corp.com/e_575d.htm) Perhaps Apple Legal contacted them?

It seems like luxpro is a real company who sells mp3 players. I did a search on them and found some asian sites selling their mp3 players.


----------



## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

Nope. It's still there:

http://www.luxpro-corp.com/e_575d.htm


----------



## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

I just got the page without images or the "super shuffle" name showing up, and then a "temporarily unavailable" message. And it's not even on Slashdot...yet!


----------



## cutehinano (Mar 8, 2005)

Well it was on engadget which gets quite a bit of traffic...


----------



## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

Reading one of the posts on engadget... it seems that Apple made the shuffle a non protected device.. meaning no patents. Seems like they can't do anything about it if this is true. Apparently, there wasn't enough basis to make any design patents because the Shuffle is only a slimmed down version of what's already on the market. Very interesting indeed!

I think though.. this won't affect Apple much in sales.. cause people place trust in brand.. well.. a lot do anyway. I think those that want an iPod Shuffle, will continue to go get them only because it's the brand that counts. Besides, if you think about it.. how useful could an FM tuner and Voice Recording be.. without a screen?


----------



## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

Well, here's a screenshot with your new posts and my loading it in. Could be a cache issue??


----------



## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

Macaholic said:


> Well, here's a screenshot with your new posts and my loading it in. Could be a cache issue??


Yes, I think the page is clinging to your cache for dear life. I just cleared mine and it's "service temporarily unavailable" all the way.


----------



## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

Vexel said:


> Reading one of the posts on engadget... it seems that Apple made the shuffle a non protected device.. meaning no patents. Seems like they can't do anything about it if this is true. Apparently, there wasn't enough basis to make any design patents because the Shuffle is only a slimmed down version of what's already on the market. Very interesting indeed!


Nothing personal, but I'd take that engadget post with a boulder of salt. Somehow I suspect there's way, way more to intellectual property law, design patents and trademarks than you, me and the poster combined know. In other words, the assertion sounds patently absurd...



> Besides, if you think about it.. how useful could an FM tuner and Voice Recording be.. without a screen?


The absence of a screen plus the presence of those particular features really does make the whole thing smell like a hoax.


----------



## farfisa (Nov 5, 2003)

Apple has patents for things they're not even considering making, so for something like the shuffle, I think their imaginative legal department could come up with _something_.


----------



## miguelsanchez (Feb 1, 2005)

there's a photo of the luxpro booth at the cebit show here:

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news.php?newsId=1017


----------



## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

Well, that trade show picture is pretty convincing. No doubt these folks seriously want to challenge Apple head-on, considering the pilfered look of the advertising. If they don't have some verry deep pockets I'd say they're going to by roadkill. 

I'd bet the month won't end before <i>at least</i> the name, colour, and ad campaign for the device have all been changed.


----------



## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

Yup. Just cleared my cache and then got the unavailable page.

Or maybe I scared them off with the email I sent them yesterday, stating that Apple was going to kick their legal ass.


----------



## ice_hackey (Aug 13, 2004)

Jeez - Apple should totally hire you.


----------



## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

$100.00 says I'm not the only one that emailed them


----------



## ice_hackey (Aug 13, 2004)

I mailed them too. Cause I'm having a hard time finding one.


----------



## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

LOL! Just check the landfill nearest Apple's headquarters in about three weeks


----------



## Heart (Jan 16, 2001)

Same here, cache gone, image gone.


----------



## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

Seems Apple has tried to get them to pull the Super Shuffle from their booth at CeBIT -- unsuccessfully:

http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/57460

This is gonna get messy.


----------



## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Of course its cheaper than an Apple shuffle. They didn't have to pay for the design, the marketing, the testing of the market. Taiwan is becoming more sensitive to this sort of blatant rip-off because their companies are the ones being sub-contracted by the likes of Apple to build products and this market is shifting to Malaysia and Korea. Intellectual property and copyright laws do exist in Taiwan and this sort of rip-off is a perfect example of breach.

Reminds me of the rip-offs of designer handbags and the like (eBay is awash with them). Not that I'm in the market!


----------



## cutehinano (Mar 8, 2005)

Finally there's more news coverage on the super shuffle (saw it on google news):

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20050315PR208.html
Taiwan made iPod shuffle-like MP3 player draws concern from Apple
Luxpro displayed its Super Shuffle MP3 player at CeBIT and drew concern from Apple for its similarities with the Apple-made iPod shuffle. According to an interview conducted by the Chinese-language Economic Daily News (EDN, Luxpro said that although their product may look like the iPod shuffle, it differs internally and includes an FM radio and voice recorder. Luxpro’s Chairman Fu-Ching Wu told EDN that patents do not cover appearance.

Apple 'distraught' over iPod copy
http://p2pnet.net/story/4212
-Note that they even stole the IPod Shuffle ad...I mean that has to be copyright infringement? Isn't that the exact ad?


----------



## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

cutehinano said:


> Their product may look like the iPod shuffle, (but) it differs internally and includes an FM radio and voice recorder. Luxpro’s Chairman Fu-Ching Wu told EDN that patents do not cover appearance.


I dunno about that one, Luxpro; The eMachines iMac ripoff had different internals and wasn't even as blatantt a ripoff as this shuffle one is. Apple got them shut down. Maybe the laws are different in China, though? If emachines is a precedent though, maybe they'll get it banned in several parts of the world but not all of them?

And their ads are TOTALLY copyright infringement.


----------



## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

I think the big lesson LuxPro is about to learn is that there's more to intellectual property than just patents. "Trade dress" is a phrase I've seen much lately, and the idea seems to be that it's an IP infringement (trademark or copyright? not sure) to attempt to confuse consumers by adopting your competitor's appearances. I'm sure Apple will have much success keeping these things off the shelves, at least in the U.S., Canada and Europe.


----------



## ice_hackey (Aug 13, 2004)

If they don't close them off in China - you'll still be able to get them. 

Gimmie gimmie gimmie.


----------



## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

It's Taiwan, not China (unless you subscribe to the One China policy of the US). Taiwan has a lot more to lose in terms of intellectual property agreements and US outsourcing. Taiwan has a very successful chip sector (and a massive chip development program at ITRI) which is under pressure from cheaper competitors such as Malaysia.

The fact that Apple outsources iPods to companies in Taiwan will give it significant clout over getting this product pulled. They can simply switch contracts to other out-sourcers in the Far East. Add to this the possibility that the shuffle design and moulds were leaked from the subcontractor, and there may even be industrial theft involved (the Taiwanese government cannot be seen to allow such practices).


----------



## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

ice_hackey said:


> Gimmie gimmie gimmie.


I heard there's a car coming out called the "Frod Super Mustang". Looks just like a Ford Mustang, has similar innards (only different), and comes with more standard features than the Ford version...all for slightly less money.

Apparently this is OK because you can't patent a design, and the Frod does things a bit differently inside. Nobody really minds that the producers of the Frod are only able to offer their product more cheaply because they didn't have to invest anything in design or marketing. Hey, it's got more features for less money, so consumers win! Besides, Ford is a megacorporation and Frod is just a humble no-name Asian manufacturer, therefore Ford's interests and intellectual property have no bearing on the matter.

BTW, enjoy your Super Shuffle when it arrives!


----------



## Mantat (Aug 22, 2003)

iMatt said:


> Apparently this is OK because you can't patent a design, and the Frod does things a bit differently inside.


You cant patent a design but you have an automatic copyright over it, as long as it is original and not trivial. 

And that Frod thing would never stand a chance in court, at least in America and Europe. Simply because they try to trick the customer to believe that they are the same product by having such a similar brand name. Talking of brand name, Mustang is already copyrighted for cars so no go there too...

Patents laws are stupid and ridiculous but copyright laws arent and offer much better protection than what you might think simply because the charge is always put on the defendant while in other type of court you need to prove your accusation. This is why you always need to document and time stamp your idea/text/pics.


----------



## miguelsanchez (Feb 1, 2005)

actually you _can_ patent a design. here are but a couple of apple's design patents. if you want to see more, go to the uspto.gov website and look up patent numbers beginning with "d".

[o.t.] anyone know how to make the image appear in the post rather than as a thumbnail?


----------



## ice_hackey (Aug 13, 2004)

iMatt - thanks. I will enjoy it! I doubt I'll use it. I just *want* it. I'm only buying for it's novelty factor. 

Miguel - those are US patents. Fortunately US isn't ruling the world yet, so they aren't worth the (digital) paper they are printed on -- in this situation.

One of my close friends is a lawyer, specializing in intellectual property... I will forward this to her.


----------



## kent (Oct 18, 2003)

If true ... this company is going to have their a$$ handed to them. Unleash the flesh-eating lawyers ...


----------



## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

Mantat said:


> You cant patent a design but you have an automatic copyright over it, as long as it is original and not trivial.
> 
> And that Frod thing would never stand a chance in court, at least in America and Europe. Simply because they try to trick the customer to believe that they are the same product by having such a similar brand name. Talking of brand name, Mustang is already copyrighted for cars so no go there too...


And the big difference between my fictional Super Mustang and the real-life Super Shuffle case is that "Mustang" is a much better established brand for cars than "Shuffle" is for music players. That's it, as far as I can see. 

Therefore I find it strange that so many people (though not very many here) are willing to give Lux-Pro a free pass. I suspect it's a kind of anti-Apple backlash: because Apple has taken some unpopular legal action recently, some people have decided that <i>any</i> legal action from Apple is frivolous or petty. In this case, though, it's surprising there's any debate at all. The Super Shuffle people are rip-off artists, pure and simple.


----------



## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

Oh look! *Here* is _another_ blatant rip-off!


----------



## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

AH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAaaaaaa!

Nasty!


----------



## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

But in this case, despite the blatant ripoff of the name (oh wait, I suppose different capitalization is "different enough") there <i>is</i> at least an attempt to look somewhat different, including the addition of new buttons. It also looks like that clickwheel is not a touch-sensitive device like Apple's...


----------



## ice_hackey (Aug 13, 2004)

Not as faithful a copy as the other - but I love it! Keep 'em coming!


----------



## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

Comming to the Pacific Mall soon 


PS. I love that place.


----------



## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

da_jonesy said:


> Comming to the Pacific Mall soon
> 
> 
> PS. I love that place.


I haven't been there in a while but after reading this thread I have a sudden hurge to go spend some money.

Laterz


----------



## cutehinano (Mar 8, 2005)

Here's an update on the Super Shuffle:

http://engadget.com/entry/1234000650036878/

Turns out it's a publicity stunt.


----------



## vacuvox (Sep 5, 2003)

I hear there is a haunted super shuffle on ebay!


----------



## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

It's somewhat ironic that the guy who "broke" the PR stunt story is also a copy-cat seller (MacMice) of Apple products.

http://www.jackwhispers.com


----------



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

The Super Shuffle just got a Super Shiner 

But if you do a search for Super Shiner...It doesn't seem show up (Using Google),
You still need to use the words Super Shuffle to search for it.

(I want one too)


----------



## powerbooker (Mar 21, 2005)

*best quote on luxpro's website!*

"Our products are always so useful to meet what you need. *Our mission is to improve your living quality and to create your life value.* If you can imagine it, LUXPRO CORPORATION can make it."

i want my life value now!!!

company info page


----------



## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

dolawren said:


> The Super Shuffle just got a Super Shiner


And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what happens when your gadget is redesigned by your legal team.


----------



## re:load (Mar 7, 2004)

so does it actually exist or is it fake? the real question is.. when can I get one (just for the fun of it of course!)?


----------



## MacME (Mar 15, 2005)

WTF? first it was Super Shuffle, then a few days ago i saw Super Shiner ... now it's Super Tangent!!!


----------

