# Bottled water??



## TCB (Apr 4, 2003)

Just got a new water dispenser for a gift and wondering where you guys/gals get your big jugs of water from for these (in Toronto)....Delivery or refill yourself?? Where should I go?


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## Griller (Jan 17, 2002)

Did you mean a water-cooler that uses those jugs that are often blue in colour? If so, my workplace orders the jugs of water from a vendor called Crystal Springs. I think we're going to change another vendor soon though.

Also, you can usually refill your own blue bottles at most larger grocery stores. They've got these automated vending machines that fill up your containers.

I'm thristy now.


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## TCB (Apr 4, 2003)

Yes those are the kind I was talking about....I picked a couple water jugs up at Loblaws last night for 4.99 each...I think that's a good deal.


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## Bolor (Sep 14, 2003)

We get ours refilled at A&P for $3.49 for 5 gallons. They use a Culligan machine. Delivery from Culligan is $6.99


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

As the owner of a bottled water company...I feel I should throw my 2 cents worth in here somewhere.  

First off, every licenced bottled water company in Canada has to pass some pretty stringent regulations in order to get into the biz, and to stay in the biz. That's a given.

So relax. Your bottled water is likey to be very VERY safe. Some of the very best in the world. Guaranteed.  

BUT...the bad news comes next. Prepare yourselves.....


Fact#1- MOST bottled water is just filtered tap water!   This is a well-documented fact. Some of the biggest name brands are nothing more than your own tap water that has been run through an industrial filtration system and then treated with some (probably) benign chemicals to sterilise it before it actually goes into the bottle.

(ALL Canadian bottled water MUST be sterilised before being bottled)

Fact#2- MANY (most) of the bottled waters that have the word "spring" in their actual name...are NOT really spring water!  

In fact..their "Brand Names" are very often a total scam. 

(example: "Canadian Springs"...this is a French-owned company called Danone that filters tap water and sells in on a large scale to an unsuspecting Canadian public. The company is NEITHER "Canadian", nor does it sell "spring water"...although you CAN get some water from them that does come from a natural spring. IF you pay extra. And ask real nice. AND if all the planets line up just right)









Fact#3- All of the biggest food and soft drink companies are busy buying up all of the companies that bottle real spring water right, now while trying to establish market share in what most experts think will be the single biggest boom market since the oil boom of the early twentieth century. Soon after they buy them, they usually dilute the real spring water with filtered tap water from a municipal standpipe in order to radically increase output and maximise profit margins. Coca-Cola, Pepsi, and Nestles are the biggest players in this particular game right now. 

Let the buyer beware. What you THINK you are getting might NOT be what you actually get. It WILL be safe, that's guaranteed. BUT..it will probably NOT be anything more than expensive filtered tap water.

Fact#4- Those dispensers that you see at the supermarket are actually steam distiller units. (I know, we own one). Distilled water is totally safe...but it should not be consumed on an exclusive basis unless your doctor recommends it for some sort of medical condition. We sell our distilled water to auto shops (for car batteries) and to dentist's offices for use in dental equipment.

Not only that...but you should know that all sorts of people have gotten fairly ill because they filled up one of their own contaminated bottles with distilled water from a supermarket dispenser. You MUST sterilise your bottle before filling it...and then you must fill it RIGHT AWAY with clean water.

Anything less, and you are just courting disaster. Unchlorinated water that ends up in an unsterilised container is a breeding groud for all sorts of serious grief. Especially if it is stored in a well-lit place for a few days before being consumed. Don't go there.

NONE of these supermarket dispensers has any sort of washing and sterilisation facility for incoming customer-owned bottles. Bottles that are likely to be contaminated in some way or another, BTW.

Which is why they are being pulled out of most of the supermarkets out here in BC. (that's why we got our steam distilling machine for ten cents on the dollar from a supermarket that had run into just this sort of problem).

Fact#5- Look VERY hard at the label on your favorite brand of bottled water. This is IMPORTANT!

"Purified Water" means that it probably came out of the same municipal water system that supplies your standard tap water. It WILL be clean and safe. Guaranteed. But it will NOT be worth paying any sort of money for (save your money....buy a Brita).

"Naturally Pure Spring Water" means it came out of the ground under it's own pressure, and was already perfectly clean when it did... and is, therefore, vastly superior to any sort of "Purified" tap water.

Look at the PPM number that is clearly stated on every bottle of water sold in Canada. "PPM" means "Parts Per Million".

(explanation: Out of one million parts per million parts of water, there are exactly 3 or 30 or 300 parts that are NOT water in that bottle. Depending upon what the label reads. This is strictly monitored, BTW.)

Evian Water is over 300 PPM. Just slightly less than what is allowed as the absolute maximum. (much more than that and you have to chew the chunks to get it down!)

Most good true spring waters are between 30 and 100 PPM. 

Distilled water should be zero PPM. If you only drink zero PPM water ALL of the time, then your digestive system may begin to look for minerals elsewhere...like in your bones. Zero PPM is not what you are looking for in a drinking water. You want LOW PPM...not ZERO PPM.

Bottom line? Look for "Real" or "Natural" Spring water. Not "Purified Water".

Look for the words "Bottled at the Source". This will eliminate most of the possibility for a scam (filtered tap water).

READ the "PPM number". It will be printed somewhere on the label. 100 PPM is fine. Twice that is probably OK. 50PPM is great...and anything LESS than that in a real naturally pure spring water is a GIFT! Buy it!!  

And, I'll bet you will be able to tell how very good a low PPM natural spring water is, from the taste alone. This is what water SHOULD taste like. 

[ September 13, 2004, 04:06 AM: Message edited by: macnutt ]


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

A quick word here about some of the more popular brands of bottled water that you may find yourself faced with in a gas station or convenience store...

"Aquafina" is owned and bottled by Pepsi Cola. It is made from purified tap water in whatever local city that their soft drink factory is located in. (It's "Pepsi", without the sugar syrup and colour and flavorings). It is perfectly safe filtered tap water. If that's what you want to pay good money for...then have at it. It can't hurt you (although some people think it tastes "flat". Just as most filtered tap waters do).

"Dasani" is a whole different kettle of fish. It is the brand of bottled water that is owned by Coca Cola...and is also made from purifed tap water in whatever city that they have a bottling plant. (it's "Coke", but without the sugar syrup and colour and flavorings)

BUT!! It also has some pretty serious added ingredients. You can see this for yourself if you look on the bottle. It will list "ingredients". No other bottled water that I know of has "Ingredients" (meaning ADDED ingredients!!)  

The "ingredients" in this case...are a whole bunch of mineral salts. Our chemist tells me that these mineral salts...if combined in the right way...could actually make a person _VERY THIRSTY_ . And then, they might just want to buy ANOTHER bottle of Dasani in order to quench that thirst.  

You don't suppose that the chemists at Coca-Cola would actually DO this to poor unsuspecting customers...do you!?!









NAAAWWWW....

BTW..."Dasani" has now been withdrawn from the market in much of Europe because of widespread questions about these suspicious (and artificial) mineral additives. That brand of filtered tap water is now effectively DEAD in parts of Europe.

The front cover of a recent English newspaper had, as it's cover story, a photo of a Dasani bottle with the headline:

"NOT the REAL thing!!"

(and I'll be happy to post that front page, if anyone wants to see it for themselves.)

In short....

READ the label. BE informed. Water is the biggest single component of your body. You cannot survive for very long without it!

You need to be well-informed about what it is you are supplying your body with, when it's signalling thirst.

Pay high prices for cheap filtered tap water if you want. But you can often find a very high quality low-PPM real spring water for the very same price as the filtered tap water. Or LESS!

You just need to look around and be label-conscious. Same as with anything else you consume.

And, since the water you drink is the single most important thing you consume each day...then the actual source of that water, and it's PPM level, should be the one thing that commands all of your attention. All of the time!

Think about it.

[ September 13, 2004, 03:55 AM: Message edited by: macnutt ]


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Thanks for the two lessons on water, Macnutt. I am pleased to see that the bottled water we buy has the "Naturally Pure Spring Water" distinction clearly on the label.


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

The Desanni brand of water uses Reverse Osmosis as it's filtering method.

Most people will argue that RO is better for you.

I tend to disagree with that fact.

The RO process removes any impurities as well as the naturally occurring minerals that is found in the water. if you read on the Desanni label, you will see "Reminerialized". These are the additives that are put back into the water.

The reason that this is done, is that RO water that is not "reminerialized" will leach the minerals from your body to replenish the minerals that are missing from the RO water. This is why Coca Cola introduces the minerals back into their water.

I refuse to drink RO for that fact. I prefer the Natural Spring Water myself. It just tastes better and I know for a fact that it is better for myself and my family.


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## Brainstrained (Jan 15, 2002)

Macnutt, I'll echo Dr. G's thanks on the water lessons. That's all worthwhile info.

Now about that page you offered to post, could you?

Not that I doubt you. I actually recall reading it.

But I just want to see if you can post something on your own when it's about something near and dear to your heart and actually supports what you say.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

since moving to Shangri-La earlier this year, I have not had to drink "city water", since i have my own well

the other day i had a glass of water in a restaurant and it tasted horrible

how did i drink that stuff for all those many years?

it's no macnutt "mountain water" but it's mine
and yes, i get it tested regularly


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## Clockwork (Feb 24, 2002)

I buy Crystal Springs. I find it's the best by far. I pick it up from IGA. Its such a waste of money to pay $2 for them to deliver it. I have tried many such as Culligan and found the taste not so good. I dont like reverese Osmosis or Distilled. Tastes terrible. Who cares if it's filtered tap water. It's not that expensive and it taste a hell of a lot better then Lake Ontario supreme.


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## LGBaker (Apr 15, 2002)

MacNutt gave us


> The reason that this is done, is that RO water that is not "reminerialized" will leach the minerals from your body to replenish the minerals that are missing from the RO water. This is why Coca Cola introduces the minerals back into their water.


Maxpower reinforced it


> The reason that this is done, is that RO water that is not "reminerialized" will leach the minerals from your body to replenish the minerals that are missing from the RO water. This is why Coca Cola introduces the minerals back into their water.


This is a great topic and one all should heed. Thanks, MacNutt for your expert information. It is appreciated. 

I find the statements made in the above quotes a little difficult to swallow, however. This position sounds to me like that taken by proponents of topical flouride applications. It doesn't make sense. I believe our bodies take their essential minerals from the food we eat and not the stones we swallow. I could be wrong.

I have consumed steam distilled water most of my adult life - without any of the consequences you mention. No bone loss, no tissue loss, no organ loss - well maybe a few neurons, but that is normal (I'm told).

Give a few nuggets of sources to chew on?


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## xorpion (Jul 26, 2002)

whats the PPM number for tap water?


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

Help me out here Macnutt...

I don't drink water unless it's in coffee, sody-pop or *beer*, but I do buy it by the case for my sister and my gilfriend.

The brand is Kirkland from Costco...cheap.

Here's what it says on the 500ml bottle:

Natural Spring Water
Source: Township of Puslinch, Ontario
Mineral Salt Content 480ppm
Fluoride Ion 0.3ppm

Analysis PPM:

HCO3 260
NO3 0
Cl 64
As 0
Mg 34
Ca 94
Pb 0
K 2
Na 31
SO4 64
Cu 0
Zn 0

Sodium 7.8mg/250ml <--Why would they put that on a 500ml bottle...to make it seem less?









Potasium 0.6mg/250ml

Okay, so is this good water or bad water????


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

FOUR HUNDRED AND EIGHTY PPM!!!







 

THAT would DEFINITELY be called "mineral water", old buddy!! YIKES!!









And it has flouride, as well. Double yucchh!

RUN...don't walk...away from this stuff.

Unless you want to deal with kidney stones in your later years. Ask someone who has had kidney stones what sort of pain this particular affliction carries with it. A buddy of mine likened it to "pi**ing big chunks of cactus every day until the stone had passed."

Good luck! You'll need it. 









What you are looking for is a natural spring water that has around 100 PPM (preferably LESS than 100PPM, if you can find it) of dissolved mineral salts...and NO flouride. 

Fifty PPM is great. Ten PPM or less, is a rare gift. BUY it!

Filtered tap water that is cleaned by reverse osmosis is almost always well under fifty PPM. Just as long as you don't mind the flat taste and don't have a problem with paying big bucks for the same water that you get from your own tap. Just filtered.

My advice?

Buy low PPM (100PPM or less) natural spring water that is "bottled at the source" with ZERO flouride (it should clearly STATE both of these things on the bottle, by the way).

OR...buy a decent home filtration system. NOT something that sits in your fridge or hangs off the kitchen tap.

Anything less...and you're just paying good money for a scam. And helping make some already fat cat companies even RICHER.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

Thanks ol' buddy...I'll run it by the girls and see what they come up with. As I said, I don't drink that stuff myself, unless there's coffee beans or alcohol in it...









OTOH, you could always FedEx me a case of *your* water.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Don't laugh. I sent a case of it to Macspectrum a few months back...and he's STLL talking about it.


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## (( p g )) (Aug 17, 2002)

I must commend you, Macnutt. This thread and your insights have made for a really interesting read!

Thanks for this.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

> I sent a case of it to Macspectrum a few months back...and he's STLL talking about it.


Really? Cool...I guess if you're going to expand, shipping to Shangri-La is good PR.









...but seriously, thanks for the insight on the bottled water biz. I know I'll be more discerning when it comes to my bottled water purchases.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

To the best of my knowledge...which, I should point out, is strictly BC water standards...municipal tap water should NOT be any higher than 340PPM. Good spring water is usually between 50 and 150 PPM. Water that has a glacier as it source (and isn't a mislabeled scam) is frequently under 25 PPM.

I should note here that ALL municipal water is treated with chlorine. Chlorine (Javex bleach) gets rid of all of the evil critters...but it is NOT good for you. Especially when it is inhaled as steam. Like in your shower each morning.

Are you buying expensive filtered tap water on a regular basis? If so...then might I suggest that you spring for a decent professional filtration system for your whole house? It will be cheaper in the long run than buying filtered tap water, and you will no longer be subjected to chlorinated steam in your shower on a daily basis.

Or...you could get a MUCH cheaper filtration system that just removes the chlorine from your house water, and then buy high-quality spring water to drink and cook with. Just a thought.


(BTW...The water that my company sells comes out of the ground at only 3 PPM. It's the purest water that the CRD Health board have ever tested, bar none. Which is probably why that same board of health experts now asks us to supply water for their monthly meetings.   ) 

As for steam distilled water...

A lot depends upon your personal metabolism and your diet. If you eat foods that are mineral rich, then your body won't begin to leach minerals out of your bones to replace the ones that are absent in distilled water. Probably.  

But you may be setting yourself up for grief in your old age. Most experts think that distilled water is OK as long as it isn't the ONLY water that you ever drink or cook with. And as long as you don't consume only food that is highly-refined and devoid of minerals. (white flour, white rice, junk food, etc.)

The natural vigour of youth will mask all sorts of deficiencies in diet while still keeping you healthy. More or less.

It's in your sunset years when all the indiscretions of youth begin to manifest themselves.

Be aware. Be informed.

Some people are healthy and happy well into their seventies or later. (me Mum is 78, and takes no medicine. She also drives a fancy sportscar and works all day in the garden. She doesn't wear glasses, and her doctor says she is healthier than most fifty year olds. In fact, she's quite a bit healthier than her 55 year old boyfriend).

Other people are a total mess by the time they hit sixty.  

You need to read a LOT...and be aware of EVERYTHING that can affect your health. Now...and in the future.

Distilled water is NOT advised, as your ONLY source. You'll discover this....if you read up on it a bit.

Trust me on this.

[ September 15, 2004, 12:53 AM: Message edited by: macnutt ]


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## Loafer (Jan 7, 2004)

Great stuff macnutt, really interesting, thanks a lot!

So.....how can we get some of your hallowed water ?
I quite fancy giving it a go.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Good question.

I sent a carboard box with four of our one gallon bottles of Carley Spring Water in it to macspectrum, back when he lived in TO. It cost me about thirty five bucks for shipping....and that was via parcel post (the cheapest method). It took almost a month and the box got there badly damaged. But he did finally get the stuff.

We don't have any distribution outside of this lower mainland/Vancouver island area at this time. And shiping water is like shipping lead. Stuff weighs a ton.  

Right now, there dosen't seem to be any practical way to get the larger sizes out to anyone in central Canada....but I could send a single one-liter bottle out that way if someone wants to spring for the shipping. The water itself would be no charge, of course.

Let me know if you're still interested.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

PM'd you Macnutt, let me know what you think.


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## LGBaker (Apr 15, 2002)

PM2


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Done deal.   

I just hope it's worth it for you. This might just be the most expensive bottled water you've ever tasted.  

There are twelve one liter bottles in a case. We use plastic milk crates to ship it around locally, but I have some similar sized cardboard boxes that we use once in a while. I'll ship it in one of those.

You like sportcaps or regular? We have both.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

Regular caps!  

I asked Macnutt to FedEx me a case of his spring water and he graciously agreed.

Now, I'm going to sample six and giveaway six to EhMac members...but there's a catch. 

First catch is that since Loafer showed interest, I'll put him in front of the line, provided he also agrees to the terms of the giveaway.

Second catch. The terms of the giveaway of one bottle is this:

You must meet me in the Toronto airport area on day of arrival at around 7PM *AND* agree to have your picture taken receiving one of Macnutt's bottles of water. The pictures *will* be posted here on EhMac. BTW, the picture thing was my idea. We wouldn't want this to be too easy would we?

So, the first 5 to reply with interest in doing this will get a bottle, if *loafer* is not interested, the sixth reply will get it.

Once all interested parties have replied, I'll PM each of you with exact location and time.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Verrrry interesting kps.

I look forward to the pics and thanks for the innovative idea to get them.

Cheers


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## Loafer (Jan 7, 2004)

nearly missed this one....

I'm in......my dear wife is going to think I am a sad case

"sorry love, I'm not gonna make it back for dinner tonight because I'm meeting a strange person at the airport to sample some spring water sent from Vancouver"

I've heard that one before










Do you want me to chip in for shipping ?

maybe a couple of beers after to wash down macnutts water ?


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## Loafer (Jan 7, 2004)

Maybe we could set up a "Macnutts Spring Water Challenge" and see if we can blindly taste the best one....which would, I'm in no doubt, be macnuts blessed aqua.

How about shipping some prizes macnut for those who make the correct choice ?????

You can't pay enough for advertising like that


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Actually Vancouver is several hours travel away from here by ferry. It isn't a vast distance, but it takes quite a while to make the trip. 

And Salt Spring Island is _WORLD'S_ away from Vancouver in almost every other way.   

Trust me on this.


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## Loafer (Jan 7, 2004)

my apologies


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

Good to see you're "on board", Loafer.  

I'll PM you as soon as I hear from Macnutt as to the shipping date. Current ETA is Thursday or Friday next week.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Just PM'd you, kps. I think the water may be in your hands by friday. Depending on FedEx.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

Replied.

Should be interesting to track the journey once you ship it.


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## Loafer (Jan 7, 2004)

macnut,

Gotta say....your water was goooooodddddd
between Mrs Loafer and I it was gone by saturday night
we took a couple of bottles with us to Cirque Du Soleil









Thanks to you for shipping it over and thanks to kps for picking up the tab, what a nice guy, he wouldn't even let me contribute to the shipping costs.

Gotta say.....ehmac memebers are a friendly generous bunch!

Strangely though I have been having urges to support George Bush.....must be something in the water









Cheers guys, from myself and Mrs Loafer.


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## LGBaker (Apr 15, 2002)

Loafer despaired


> Strangely though I have been having urges to support George Bush


Hurry! There's no time to spare! The only known, effective antidote for this condition is described on page 57 of Mao's Little Red Book. Find a copy, tear out the page and swallow it without chewing.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Sorry I've been too darned busy to get back to this thread ( I was out delivering bottled water to some very thirsty people who have discovered the difference between real spring water and filtered tap water).  

Glad everyone seems to like the water.  

And thanks to kps again for being the generous benefactor with the shipping. I always find it totally amazing how fast FedEx really is! I dropped off the case of water around 4PM at the Victoria airport...and the very next day I see a photo of loafer holding one of the bottles in Toronto, posted here at ehmac!

Blows me wee mind, it does.
















Too cool.


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## bopeep (Jun 7, 2004)

Hmmm... bo's curiosity about this water is piqued.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

*Gerry*, it should be me thanking you for taking the time to ship it. Most generous of you, you didn't have to do it.  

Your water is terrific when nicely chilled, that's when the true flavour becomes apparent...even for these totaly destroyed taste buds.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Yep, I now just have to get me some of this water Macnutt.

Maybe with a shipment of some certain Monte Carlo parts you have threatened to send one day?

I of course, would pay the freight!

Cheers


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## LGBaker (Apr 15, 2002)

MacNutt - my sample has not yet arrived. Should I be concerned?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Only about Macnutt, LBG.

The water will be fine!

Cheers


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## LGBaker (Apr 15, 2002)

I don't worry about MacNutt, Sinc. He and I are charter members of the PPP - People for Pictish Pacifism. We are currently toiling for our Badge of Non-Aggression.


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## Kami (Jul 29, 2002)

MacNutt

I am curoius what you think about the Ice Age brand water that comes in the dark blue bottles. Water comes from a glacier in northern BC. I don't have a bottle sitting in from me but if memory serves me correctly, it was pretty pure. It tasted good too.

On another note, for those of us who live in the GVRD is there an easy way to try a bottle (or more) of your water?


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

"Ice Age" in the distinctive cobalt blue bottle is really good water, IMHO. It's the brand that I reach for when I'm in some area that is not yet served by Carley Spring Water. (shameless plug...but the truth)

Ice Age comes from Toba Inlet in BC, and it's outstanding stuff. Only six parts per million (PPM)!

(Carley Spring is only 3PPM, BTW. Which, although a minute difference, means our water is arguably twice as pure as Ice Age)  

Compared to some of the heavy mineral-laden bottled spring waters on the market with 150-300PPM (like Evian)...both Ice Age and Carley Spring are in a class by themselves. 

And both are world's away from the flat tasting filtered-city-tap-water scam brands like "Dasani" and "Aquafina"....which are pure crap. (What would you expect from companies like Coca Cola and Pepsi? The REAL thing?)


BTW...sorry I've been away from here lately. We have had a strong run of very hot summery weather out here lately and, because of this, the water biz has kept me busy from early morning until late in the evening each day. My apologies.

And....if anyone would like to try a bottle of our outstandingly pure mountain spring water (and doesn't mind paying for the shipping) then please let me know.

I will be sending a one liter bottle to LGB rather shortly (when I get a spare moment)

I will also ship a bottle to SINC (along with those overdue Monte Carlo parts...soryy about that, old buddy)

Both of you two might want to refresh my memory by sending me your mailing addresses. 

Anyone else want to try what the local health board calls "the purest bottled natural spring water available in North America"?

Let me know.

BTW...it's due to start raining by this coming tuesday around here, and demand will fall off a bit (I'll have some spare time after that point). Patience until then, por favor. I'm running flat out to meet demand right now, and we are a very small company at present.

This is likely to change in the very near future.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Kami...and anyone else who lives in the GVRD...

We are only just getting a foothold in the mainland market right now. The one liter bottles are not yet available over there. Will be by this next spring, I believe.

BUT...you can try our water in the Vancouver area if you can find a "Fairways" supermarket. We bottle all of their "Our Own" house brand water. It's available in the four liter (milkjug) and 9.5 liter sizes. It says "bottled by Carley Spring in small letters on the label, under the btight red "Our Own" logo.

OR...you can visit Victoria and find it all over the place under the Carley Spring name.

OR...you could stop by Salt Spring and discover that it is the best selling brand around here. By quite a margin. It's everywhere, on this busy little rock.

When I finally get some spare time, I will finally have our website up and running. Then you can find a list of retail outlets that sell our water.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

> We are currently toiling for our Badge of Non-Aggression.


Ah yes, the old "BNA Act" trick!

Cheers


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## bopeep (Jun 7, 2004)

Ok.. hit me. 

If there is anyone in the GTA who wants to try some, We can get it shipped together. 

okilly?


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## lindmar (Nov 13, 2003)

> nearly missed this one....
> 
> I'm in......my dear wife is going to think I am a sad case
> 
> ...


Holy Cow! I didnt want to post until I finished reading but this truly made me laugh! I will post after my 2 cents but that was REALLY FUNNY!


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## lindmar (Nov 13, 2003)

OK.

So has anyone switched their water purchases? I have cut out all POP from my diet and no strictly drink water, OJ and Milk.

I drink about 5-6 500ML bottles of water a day.
So what are people buying now? As I told macnutt in a PM, I like buying the cases of 24 bottles. My local grocery story has two choices in that......

1) Presidents Choice Natural Spring Water
2) Montclair

Both have high PPM (270-280) And dont tell me if they are pure or from the source. They both say ozonated ect...

I need a new water! Recommend!


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

The amount of PPM in your water is pretty much a matter of choice. High PPM won't really hurt you...but lower is always better. Means lower salts and you are probably getting plenty of minerals in your diet. Ås long as you don't live on twinkies or something.

I'm not sure what bottled water brands are available in your area. Check your supermarket and get back to me with a list and I'll try to wade through it with you in the next few days, when I get some spare time.

Meantime...let your taste buds tell you what is real and what is crap. Softer tasting water will almost always be cleaner that high mineral content water. Reverse osmosis ozonated city tapwater will almost always have a flat or slightly sharp taste.

Our ancestors always knew good water from bad by how it tasted. "Sour" was bad and "Sweet" is good. There are numerous place names that have the words "sweet water" in them. There is a reason for this.

Use this as your guide until we can decode a few labels for you. Probably after tuesday. I should have some spare time by then.


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## lindmar (Nov 13, 2003)

I Did PM about getting some of the holy grail water shipped!


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## Loafer (Jan 7, 2004)

bopeep, 

you missed the boat on the GTA shipment...KPS got some in last week and him and myself polished it off between us.

If I had any left I would have said you can take one.....but this stuff's just too damn good to sit in the fridge for more than a day









4 more years, 4 more years...ahem....sorry, I don't know what came over me


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## xorpion (Jul 26, 2002)

i wouldnt mind trying out this magical water either.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Perhaps some of you could get together and share shipping costs? Or...perhaps you could ask kps, real nice, if he can do his FedEx tricks again?

Either way...the bottled water won't cost you anything. Just the shipping.

Let me know what you decide on.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Again, I've only got an hour or two before I pass out from total physical exhaustion ( I moved four tons of water by hand today...fifty pounds on each arm. I'm hurtin right now.)









Perhaps a few of you could get together and share the shipping costs to get some Carley Spring Water out to southern Ontario. Or...if you talk real nice to kps, perhaps he will once again work his FedEx magic for you (I've heard he has an inside connection with FedEx).

However you want to do it...the bottled water won't cost you a cent. Just the shipping.

Let me know what you come up with.


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## lindmar (Nov 13, 2003)

Well, I wouldnt mind at least trying a 1 litre jug or something.. Unless a few people want to work to get a new shipment ready?

What is KPS fedex magic? KPS you wanna get another round together!?!


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## xorpion (Jul 26, 2002)

ill chip in for shipping, but im not able to meet up for pickup or anything.

whats the fedex magic? can it get delivered locally once it gets here?

much thanks.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

There is no FedEx magic. I can get a volume discount on shipping...that is all.

My offer on page two of this thread was a one time deal and I haven't received the bill for the costs yet. My generous benefactor in SSI inexplicably put down, what appears to be, 79lbs as the shipping weight.







So who knows what that case is going to end up costing at air express rates from BC...even with a reduced rate.

If I were to agree to do it again, which is unlikely, then the only way to do it would be for those interested to cover the shipping costs up front and pick up their water at the Toronto airport...no redirection or redistribution would be possible. It's just not feasable or cost effective. Sorry.


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## xorpion (Jul 26, 2002)

understandable, kps.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Seventy nine pounds??!! WTF!!??  

I was there when the FedEx lady weighed the box..and SHE wrote the number down on the waybill. I thought it was about 28lbs or something like that. Either way...this was not of my doing, I promise you!  

She was scurrying to get the box onto an airplane that was already loaded and cleared to go...perhaps that's where the problem came from.

Kps...let me know if there is anything I can do to fix this obvious error from out here. I sure don't want you to have to pay for overnighting 79 pounds all the way to TO.









Especially when it couldn't have weighed even half of that.


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## mmp (Oct 20, 2001)

macnutt,
I have to ask about my favorite water, it is called ésker and is marketed as a natural spring water from Quebec. What do you know about it and what do you think of it? I can find it in a few places but it isn't easy to find in Saskatchewan.

Listed as such:
Fluoride ions 0.1 PPM
Disolved Mineral Salts 85 PPM
Composition PPM:
Ca 21
NO3 0.1
Na 2
HCO3 96
Mg 4
K 1
SO4 7
F 0.1
As 0
Cl 0
Cu 0
Pb 0
Zn 0


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I've never heard of that particular brand before.

But it does have flouride (although it's a miniscule amount). Fouride content is NOT considered a "selling point". Flouride belongs in your toothpaste...not in your drinking water. 

Other than that it seems to be a good middle level spring water judging from the advertised mineral breakdown on the label. Hope it's correct. Some are not...the Liberals have been stalling a long overdue change in the labelling laws for several years now. One that would force ALL bottled water companies to be completely truthful on their labels...and to admit to where there actual source is.

If it tastes OK...then it probably is OK. If there is any sort of flat or sharp taste, or if it says "reverse osmosis" on the bottle...then it is probably a scam.

Beware. And be aware.

You might also want to email your Liberal MP and ask them what the holdup is on the new labeling laws. We NEED to know the truth about our bottled water...even if it means that big companies like Coke and Pepsi and Canadian Springs have to take a big hit in nationwide sales of their scam brands.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

Like I said, haven't received the invoice, Gerry. My delivery copy looks like 79 and what worries me is that the manifester will enter it as that unit instead of 29lbs. Don't worry, I'll take care of it with billing if that's the case.

Check out the scan, easily interpreted as 79 instead of 29:


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

It certainly looks like "79" to me. But I didn't fill in that box...the FedEx lady did. She weighed it as well.

(My handwriting is on the line directly above. I print-write vertically...as seen in the word "Missisauga". The person who wrote in the weight obviously writes with a noticeable rightwards slant)

After your last post, I went down to the bottling room and tossed 12 one liter bottles into the very same kind of box and hauled them back into the house where I weighed them on my totally innacurate bathroom scales. 

It said 28 lbs.

So...unless that VHS tape I included in the package weighed 51 lbs, then I'd say that the true number is 29 not 79 lbs.

I'd be more than willing to go back to the FedEx office at Victoria airport with an identical unsealed box of 12 one liter bottles and confront the same lady who wrote the bill up, if you'd like. Just to get to the bottom of this.

No WAY you should get dinged for that much weight. 

Let me know what I can do to help.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

It's cool, Gerry, I should have known it was the CSR who wrote that chicken scratch two (Z) and not you...mea culpa









I should be able to resolve it with the billing dept. if the issue arrises.It usually takes 15 or so days to get the invoice.


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## lindmar (Nov 13, 2003)

OK Macnutt.

Need some help breaking this down. I am ready to find a healthy bottled water locally.

But right now, I'm drinking Presidents Choice “Natural Spring Water”
To me, it sometimes doesn’t taste as good as water should. Here are the specs, can you offer some breakdown! H20 Wizard

Analysis of P.P.M (270 P.P.M)

AS	0
HCO3
CA	87
CI	5
Cu	0
F	0	
Mg	31	
NO3	2	
Pb	0
K	1	
Na	2
SO4	8
Zn	0

Sodium 0.48 mg; Potassium: 0.25 mg
Per 250 ml Serving

and KPS, I hope you get the shipping info worked out..


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## Robert-oh (May 2, 2003)

Funny...this was just sent to me the other day...

http://calgary.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=twtw_07052002


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Lindmar...

Hmmm...270PPM and a tad salty as well. I think I'd keep looking if I were you. Find some brand that is NOT filtered tap water and that has less than 100PPM (preferably less than fiftyPPM) and your tastes buds will thank you. So will your kidneys.  

Robert-Oh.....The link to the article exposing Dasani as a pure scam is just what I'm talking about. The stuff has been withdrawn from the market in parts of Europe because the minerals that they add to the filtered tap water actually turned out to be harmful. They also make you rather thirsty, too.

Big surprise.

I wouldn't wash a dog with Dasani. Let alone actually drink it. YIKES!


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"I wouldn't wash a dog with that stuff." Macnutt, you are a closet dog lover.  Paix, mon ami.


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## Gerbill (Jul 1, 2003)

I'm fortunate enough to live in White Rock, BC, a community where all the water comes from artesian wells, and is pumped straight into the distribution pipes without treatment of any kind. When you get used to this kind of water, it's kind of rough to take an incautious sip of tap water elsewhere in the GVRD - it tastes like a blend of industrial sludge and s&*^.

Needless to say, I don't spend much on bottled water!

Cheers :-> Bill


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Dr. G...

I love dogs. I like all critters.  

Which is why I wouldn't subject any of them to a Dasani assault. Only pure spring water for my fuzzy buddies.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

That's what we do for our doxies.........as well as for the rest of the G clan. There is a local company that has a grand spring located away from all habitation, and we buy our water from them. We would get the Macnutt Brew, but I guess it is too far to deliver from SSI to St.John's.


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## Griller (Jan 17, 2002)

Well my workplace did it. We switched 'water suppliers.' We went from Crystal Springs to Cedar Springs. Ironically, with the Cedar Springs systems we aren't getting 'spring' water despite the name. We've got one reverse-osmosis system and a 'triple-filtering' system (seems like a Super-Ultra-Brita to me) In both systems they just use tap water and 'purify' it. Both seem fresher and taste better.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Too bad. You will now be drinking dead water that is filtered from a municipal water supply. It's just tap water, after all. An expensive scam, by all accounts.

Tell your company to invest a few bucks in a decent filtration system, if they want to save thousands of dollars over the long run. (If they want to drink filtered tap water...then this would be the cheapest way to do it)

Or...they could spend the same amount of money that they are now spending for filtered tap water, while buying the real thing. Pure spring water is almost always available, in pretty much every area of the country...usually for the same cost as the junk water.

Your choice.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Time to ressurect this thread.

At this point....kps and loafer have tried bottled mountain spring water from my company. So has SINC. Bopeep will, shortly.

Anyone else want to try the best (and cleanest) natural mountain spring water that is currently available in North America? (It'll only cost you shipping).

Let me know.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

While I certainly do have my bottle of water, I have yet to try it.

It is in the fridge chilling to a decent temperature and when the occasion arises will be ready for the test.

The wife and I work different schedules and we want to give it a test when we are both clear of palate and have the time to enjoy it with a proper light meal.

Cheers


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## bopeep (Jun 7, 2004)

SINC, It is a bottle of water not a bottle of Dom! if you are thirsty, drink it... or make cofffe from it, or drink it. 

I can't wait for mine. 
Macnutt: Your 'payment' will be mailed on Thursday ... 

Cheers
Bo


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Oddly enough, I have a bottle of Dom in the wine sling just above the water, and neither will be consumed until the time is right.

As Dr. G., once stated, "No bottle of MacNutt shall ever be wasted, especially during a U.S. election campaign until a clear winner emerges named Kerry. Once the proclamation has been made, it will be appropriate to consume said MacNuttables."

And I NEVER argue with Dr. G.!

Cheers


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## bopeep (Jun 7, 2004)

What if there is NOT a Kerry win? Do you consume the Dom and drown your sorrows?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Not a chance bo, the Dom is for our 40th wedding anniversary in just 11 more months!

Cheers


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sinc, a pre-anniversary Kudos to you and your wife.







Give her a doxie pup as an anniversary gift. Trust me, she will adore the pup and love you even more.

Remember what you stated -- "And I NEVER argue with Dr. G.!"


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Darn, I walked right into that one didn't I?

Cheers


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## bopeep (Jun 7, 2004)

You have stayed married to the same person for 40 consecutive years? ? 

My hat is off to you.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Well bo, not quite.

As of today it is only 39 years, 26 days, but it will be 40 on October 8, 2005.

And before you ask how we did it, you should know my dear wife Ann is a farm gal from southern Saskatchewan who became a Registered Nurse.

She is also my best friend and that makes it very easy.

But, I couldn't have done it without her!

Cheers


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sinc, re your comment that "Darn, I walked right into that one didn't I?", remember what was said in "The Way of Marriage According to Macnutt" -- "It is better to be with the person you love for many years, than not to be with this person. However, be careful how you walk when speaking about matrimonial bliss, for you may either have doxie puppies running around the house, or look as if you are a drunken giraffe on rollerskates."

To be honest, I have no clue what Macnutt was trying to say in this statement. However, I shall say, "Your wife is a lucky person to have a husband such as you." Paix, mon ami.


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## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

Nutt, having gone through all kinds of hoops to get drinkable water both at home and at the cottage, I would love to try your highly regarded aqua.

Only problem is I can't pick it up at the airport so I'd need direct to door shipping. If this is feasable, let me know what you need. I'll happily cover packaging, shipping and even product cost (don't really need freebies). Maybe you should get some ehMac lables and members can donate to the ehMac cause.


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## Bosco (Apr 29, 2004)

I'm reading this with interest. We only drink distilled water. I've looked on the web for info on it and the only negatives I've come across have been from "alternative medicine" sites.I did come across this biased FAQ ( they sell a distiller) 

http://www.nutriteam.com/distillerfaq.htm

I switched to distilled water when I read that bottled water contains bacteria. And bacteria multiplies. And the longer the bottle sits, the more it multiplies. Does bottled water have a bottling date on it?

The whole Benzene in Perrier thing caught my attention. And when you buy "spring water" you have no idea where it came from or what's around that "spring" that is leaching into it.

I feel safe that I'm getting minerals from the foods I eat. And pure water is tasteless, colourless, odourless and does not conduct electricity. Distilled water can't taste "bad". It has no taste. And the last one's a bonus when your kids spill water on the computer. Just turn it off and let it dry and it will work the next day. Happened twice so far.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Anyone want to talk about bottled water here?

Anyone want to try the very best bottled water that is available in North America?

Let me know.


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## bopeep (Jun 7, 2004)

I have a question for you ... 

I have some firends that gave me some water in a funky square bottle. Fiji I think it's called. I do NOT understand the jibberish on the label. I kept the bottles cause theya re cool. The water was ok, but wasn't terribly thirst quenching. 

I will find a bottle and give you the 'specs' if you need/want them
cheers
bo


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## razz (Sep 21, 2003)

MacNutt, I have a dire need to talk water with ya. It concerns a certain water filtration company who's name I won't post here.

Sent you a pm!


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## SoyMac (Apr 16, 2005)

I just saw this article which I think merits the resurrection of this thread:

*Storing water for emergencies unsafe, expert says*
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=32284741-12f5-451d-bd84-daebe172a6bc&k=59452

Some quotes from the article -
"Water experts said bottled water is a triumph of marketing, but not a good deal financially or health-wise.
Professor William Shotyk, director of the Institute of Environmental Geochemistry at the University of Heidelberg, said recent tests of water quality have found significant levels of antimony, a toxic chemical element, in polyethylene terephthalate (PET) bottles."
...
"Mr. Shotyk said the findings raise questions about the purity of bottled water, but the industry is growing fast with limited public scrutiny.
By contrast, public utilities such as Ottawa's water treatment system face heavy scrutiny, including elaborate testing and a growing regimen of regulation.
The irony for Mr. Weir, who runs the water system, is that people are spending more for a single serving of bottled water than they spend for 1,000 litres they get from the city."
...
"The bottled-water industry ... doesn't do all of the detailed testing of water that would show all the trace amounts of undesirable elements. But the soft drink companies are superb marketers, said Mr. Michel.
"To them, it's just another commodity. They're good at selling. They're good at what they do.""

© The Ottawa Citizen 2006


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## modsuperstar (Nov 23, 2004)

Bottled water is pretty terrible for the environment. People drink it all the time, often as opposed to drinking water from the tap because they don't feel its safe. The problem is that there is a ridiculous amount of natural resources used to create bottled water, from the water itself, plastic production, fossil fuels to transport it across country and around the world. This all for something that is quite often nothing more then filtered tap water.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Often it isn't even "filtered tap water," just tap water.

Everybody should think about replacing their plastic containers every few months, especially the kind you might put food in every day or week, and use for storage, refridgeration, microwaving, etc.


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

There are several issues here.
1) Antimony is not nessecary to make plastic bottles and should be phased outlike they did in Europe.
2) plastic bottles are not supposed to be reused or left in the sun
3) Glass doesn't leach antimony.
4) Eveyone touts safe municipal water supplies but no one is talking about the vast quantities of *alum* found in many municipal water supplies especially Toronrto's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alum
Alum is fairly widly belived to be a likely culprit in Alzhiemers.
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ewh-semt/water-eau/drink-potab/aluminum-aluminium_e.html

Until the issue of Alum is actually discussed you will have a difficult time convincing me that municipal water is good to drink (even filtered).

My particular concern with Tronto's water is the incredibly ancient water treatment system we have here where alum is used in astonishing quantities. Out water regulations have a minimum but no maximum amount of alum.


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## rondini (Dec 6, 2001)

Once again I raise the point about municipal water spokepersons bad mouthing bottled water until there system screws up (Vancouver), then it's "everyone should drink bottled water for now please" They always bring up the safety issue, which is a straw man argument in my opinion, but never address the real reason most people buy bottled water. This is the taste issue, as many municipal supplies simply do not taste very good. 

To raise nebulous issues about things that might be in bottled water (and this depends on water source and bottling procedures), while ignoring the issues of the added chlorine or chloramines in their own processes, along with the use of alum as mentioned above, smacks of FUD. 

As I have stated before, the packaging processes of bottled water have to meet the industry standards for food handling, and if the plant follows NSF guidelines, the final product is prepared for human consumption to an extrememly high standard, especially when compared to municipal water systems. 95% of the city water is used for non human consumption purposes, so all that is done to it is filtration to remove turbidity (alum is used often) and disinfection by chlorine or chloramine. Nothing is done to filter out little things like crypto and giardia (parasites). 

A reputable bottled water facilty will use ozone systems to disinfect, and filtration to remove everything down to less than .5 micron (if memory serves me correctly), which takes care of parasites. They also remove things like excess minerals, particularly iron. Reverse osmosis systems provide the best filtration for a drinkable product. Distillation is slightly better, but has a somewhat flat taste that not everyone likes. Even RO water is somewhat flat. That is why Dasani, i think, is RO water that jhas been re-mineralised to a small degree. 

The cost issue is a different matter. I think Coke and Pepsi overcharge for their product, selling it for tha same cost or more than their pop, which has the same water and a few extra ingredients, 12 spoons of sugar for example. So if you like bottled water, shop around for the affordable one that you like, or buy what's on sale that week, or buy the brand that has image. Your choice. If you want bottled water quality in the home, with less environmental impact, install a home RO system, this will take all the crud out of the municipal supply, storing the product for you, and sending the unused crud-laden part down the drain and back into Mother Nature. 

A good system is not cheap, initially, but your costs per litre will be well below the costs of store purchased. There are a number of sources for this equipment, but I would recommend biting the bullet and going with the Culligan product. NSF certified for starters. PM me if you have questions, Note that I am not employed by them in any way at all, any more.


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