# 10.7 - Lion - Yawn!!



## thegoat54 (Nov 20, 2007)

Was anyone else as Underwhelmed about what they were showing off for 10.7 as I was?

Really? Thats it? I'm not seeing anything thats making me excited for an upgrade. If it comes out at $30 like Snow Leopard did I guess I'll buy it. But anymore then that and I'm just not sure the features they showed off today are good enough.

Yawn!! :yawn:


----------



## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

I certainly hope that what was shown is not the best of Lion. I don't want my Mac to behave like an iPad. I want to have multiple windows for dragging and dropping and easy switching and swapping. I don't want to have to have a multi-touch mouse to make things work properly.

Dumbing down the Mac as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Mckitrick (Dec 25, 2005)

I'm not entirely sure I like the way Mission Control replaces Spaces.... I'll have to try it to know for sure.


----------



## daniels (Jul 27, 2009)

i dont understand why you need the ios stuff on a mac. Im not planning on getting an ipad anymore cause the macbook air comes with a real keyboard. Im going to upgrade to it, but if its just like ios im going back to snow leopard.


----------



## spiffychristian (Mar 17, 2008)

i just read up on it and whatnot and i hate it.

there becomes a point where a computer and a tablet and a cellphone have to differ from each other.

i at first thought and still think that the ipad isn't computer-ish enough, and now the macs are becoming more ipad like. i'm not impressed.

i like ilife 11 and facetime and the new macbook airs though!

still no white iphone 4


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Underwhelmed with 10.7 would be a huge understatement AFAIK and for what I need and use with our Macs, and I'm still underwhelmed with Mac OS 10.6.x and what it was touted to be.

As arstechnica.com said, as did Apple along the same lines, "... the release is heavily focused on performance and nailing down speed and stability." Yeah right, and I'm still waiting!!!

Or wikipedia, "...Unlike previous versions of Mac OS X, the goals with Snow Leopard were improved performance, greater efficiency and the reduction of its overall memory footprint. Addition of new end-user features was not a primary goal. Much of the software in Mac OS X was extensively rewritten for this release in order to fully take advantage of modern Macintosh hardware. New programming frameworks, such as OpenCL, were created, allowing software developers to use graphics cards in their applications. This is also the first Mac OS release since the introduction of System 7.1.2 that does not support the PowerPC architecture, as Apple now intends to focus on its current line of Intel-based products."

Yup, Yeah right, and I'm still waiting!!!

But maybe my 24" 2.4 GHz Intel iMac with high speed HD and 4 GB RAM is just not up to all the "improvements", not to mention many recent applications and evenly some recent printers that failed to work.

Yeah right, and I'm still waiting!!!

The "performance and nailing down speed and stability" or even proper "usability" never came to be, hence my Intel iMac is running everything and fast and reliably with Mac OS 10.5.8 thanks, and I will admit it has been "stripped" with a smaller HD footprint than the 10.6.4 volume!!!

So yes, a big Yawn here with a "new and improved" OS that I might look at, but probably not as my main reliable working 10.5.8 replacement.

And, oh yes, did I mention that our old HP Laserjet 4ML Mac serial AppleTalk printer connected via an AsanteTalk adapter, now into the third 5,000 pages box of paper and just a $40.00 cartridge replacement needed last year is still working with all wired and wireless Macs, and even a visiting windows 7 using nephew, from a G3 DT OS 9 Mac to a MBP running 10.6.4, and oh yes, our wireless router went kaput last month so the iMac has become the wireless access point.

Try doing that when running 10.6.x, leave alone 10.7!!!

Yup, BIG Yawn!!!!


----------



## steviewhy (Oct 21, 2010)

sudo rm -rf /


----------



## andreww (Nov 20, 2002)

From what I can see there are some new features that they have borrowed from the iOS, but pro users will likely never touch that stuff anyway. Things like full screen apps are kind of neat, and i'm sure they will work fine with Apples apps, but what about Adobe's creative suite? The stuff I use every day likely won't work, not without another expensive upgrade anyway.


----------



## thegoat54 (Nov 20, 2007)

Good. So it wasn't just me. Really? They're showing off the applications opening up all over the screen in a grid like an iPad? Who cares? Mission control looks like BS control IMHO. 

Sounds to me that the only improvements they're making are ones that can play nicely with the new Mac app store. 

Does apple really want me to pay to upgrade so that I can have my OS play nicely with they're new store? No thank you!!


----------



## Stephanie (Jul 21, 2004)

One thing that felt really backwards to me was the focus on full-screen, one thing at a time. I thought the iPhone / iPad worked that way because it could only do one thing at a time. So bringing that to the Mac really feels like a dumbing / crippling move. 

The other thing that made me wonder is, what about those of us who use more than one monitor? I run my Macs dual-head, specifically because I _can_ have eleventeen windows open and see them all at the same time and work with them all at the same time. 

There wasn't a single thing in the 10.7 demo that appealed to me. 

On the other hand, I can see a lot of things that would appeal to my senior-citizen parents, such as the way apps install themselves. My dad's never figured out how to install things. Ditto for my 10 year old neice, Lion would make the computer much more friendly for her. 

I just hope that those are not the only two markets that Apple is thinking about.


----------



## andreww (Nov 20, 2002)

They always throw some eye candy in to the system, but pro users are only interested in performance. Thankfully, Apple has never disappointed in that department.


----------



## ertman (Jan 15, 2008)

Mckitrick said:


> I'm not entirely sure I like the way Mission Control replaces Spaces.... I'll have to try it to know for sure.


I thought Mission Control replaces expose?


I am indifferent about Lion also. I am sure some of the new features will be useful, but I am also concerned that OSX will start being too much like iOS.

One thing I am liking is the MacApp store concept we will see on Snow Leopard. I think that from a usability standpoint they are bang on with easy updates, install etc. Although its actually not that hard on a Mac. This also reminds me of Ubuntu's Software Centre. I think the 70/30 split is a bit steep though.

I wonder at what point can Apple not introduce "new" features, as eventually pretty much everything will be covered.


----------



## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

daniels said:


> i dont understand why you need the ios stuff on a mac. Im not planning on getting an ipad anymore cause the macbook air comes with a real keyboard. Im going to upgrade to it, but if its just like ios im going back to snow leopard.


Agreed. Macbook Air is an iPad with a keyboard. I might upgrade. Although, I already have a MBP!


----------



## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

I'm in the wait and see camp...I wasn't excited by the announcements but at the same time I'm not going to dismiss it out right until I see more and likely play with it some more once its released.


----------



## screature (May 14, 2007)

Well, I for one think this whole discussion is waaayyy premature, it is just a sneak peak, not the whole list of added features or performance benefits. Why not just hold your collective horses and wait and see the full array of what is to be offered before passing judgement and getting your knickers in a knot.


----------



## screature (May 14, 2007)

andrew pratt said:


> i'm in the wait and see camp...i wasn't excited by the announcements but at the same time i'm not going to dismiss it out right until i see more and likely play with it some more once its released.


+1


----------



## darkscot (Nov 13, 2003)

screature said:


> well, i for one think this whole discussion is waaayyy premature, it is just a sneak peak, not the whole list of added features or performance benefits. Why not just hold your collective horses and wait and see the full array of what is to be offered before passing judgement and getting your knickers in a knot.


+1


----------



## andreww (Nov 20, 2002)

I'd never recommend an Air to anybody. a 13" MBP is a far better computer for the same price. An iPad will not replace a computer for anybody that does anything more than surf the web or check email. If you do real work, you need a computer, and a MBP is the best choice.


----------



## ahMEmon (Sep 27, 2005)

Wow. Great to know that it's not just me. If this is what Lion has to offer, then no thanks, I'll stick with the snowy cat.


----------



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

I'm willing to bet that most people in denial today about Lion will, in fact, upgrade to Lion.  (And we'll all get used to it regardless when new machines ship with Lion pre-installed and no longer support Snow Leopard.)

I agree with what 'screature' has said. Way too premature to jump to conclusions about Lion based on a sneak preview.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Personally, I think this announcement was just to support the finance release. Yes the new MBAs were a new issue, and I still think underwhelming [ I think the MBP might indeed be a better machine as a prior poster has indicated ] but my concern as a Mac users is the OS. If you don't upgrade, and Apple seems to upgrade constantly, won't you be left behind and run the risk of outdating your machine. I suppose if you don't buy software you will be fine, but Apple, like Microsoft, will be linking OS and Hardware together. Without the upgrade we may have some high priced paper weights.

I think the preview was just that, and it won't be the final product, but it is interesting to read the seemingly negative comments and I'm wondering if this is the real purpose of the preview.....


----------



## screature (May 14, 2007)

ahMEmon said:


> Wow. Great to know that it's not just me. If this is what Lion has to offer, then no thanks, I'll stick with the snowy cat.


It is pretty clear if you actually read what is on the Apple site that what is listed is sneak peek and a glimpse of what Lion will be... They aren't going to show the best stuff now, there would no wow factor left for when they have the final release if they did...



> Mac OS X Lion arrives in summer 2011. *Here’s a sneak peek at just a few of its features. *


Geesh people should read and pay attention.


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

I expect more from Apple in the future ( a given I know). This sneak peak of Lion was as the title of this thread stated "yawn". I have used OS X since 10.0 and with every update there has been a huge improvement, especially in the productivity side for people who make a living with there Macs. If, and thats a big IF, these were the highlights of Lion, it may be the first version I completely skip.


----------



## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

While it's true that it's just a sneak peek, IMHO the content of the peek (and the event as a whole) is telling.

The bigger message is: we're the industry leader now, we got there by catering to the average consumer, and we're going to build on that success by trying even harder to appeal to the average consumer.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing -- in fact, I don't see a more appropriate message for Apple to send at this time -- but it's not too surprising that the hardcore/geek/pro/long-term Mac users who are the core population of this site are underwhelmed or even disappointed.

Like a lot of you, the Lion preview didn't really grab me. But consider the broader market, and this could well be another case of a move that looks underwhelming to the jaded Machead crowd that turns out to be yet another home run for Apple.


----------



## cap10subtext (Oct 13, 2005)

I have to say the app store is not the slightest bit unexpected but it truly scares the daylights out of me. As long as the App store stays optional past Lion I'm okay with that. And I can understand why the app store works on iOS, particularly because it's such a revolution for mobile devices. But if it ever becomes manditory as it is with iOS, I'm saying goodbye to Apple. As an indie app maker and programmer who straddles the line between software platforms that are and can make their own applications it would destroy my livelihood. Optional, fine. Manditory, no.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Cap10subtext: is this really an issue. I thought that even Windows sit on DOS, so wouldn't the Mac OS [ what every animal they would like to name it ] be the same..... somewhere in there is the root operation.


----------



## Stephanie (Jul 21, 2004)

For me, the concern is that the Mac App Store (along with the other sneak preview features) could indicate a gradual locking down of the Mac along the lines of the iOS platform. In two years, will we start to hear about people Jailbreaking their Macs? I hope not.


----------



## steviewhy (Oct 21, 2010)

sudo rm -rf /


----------



## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

If they tell you too much in the preview, why would you pay to see the actual show? It's like movie trailers today; no sense of mystery left. Leave the primping and promissory notes to the competitors. Apple works best when they don't tell you everything until there is something to tell.


----------



## jfpoole (Sep 26, 2002)

cap10subtext said:


> I have to say the app store is not the slightest bit unexpected but it truly scares the daylights out of me. As long as the App store stays optional past Lion I'm okay with that. And I can understand why the app store works on iOS, particularly because it's such a revolution for mobile devices. But if it ever becomes manditory as it is with iOS, I'm saying goodbye to Apple. As an indie app maker and programmer who straddles the line between software platforms that are and can make their own applications it would destroy my livelihood. Optional, fine. Manditory, no.


Really? As a small developer I see the Mac App Store as a very good thing. I'd be surprised if my sales didn't go up (it'll make them a lot more visible, and it's a lot easier to click "buy" than fill out a payment form) once my applications are on the Mac App Store. 

I also can't see Apple making the App Store mandatory; most of the "pro" applications on the Mac wouldn't meet the application guidelines that Apple's published.


----------



## bryanc (Jan 16, 2004)

screature said:


> It is pretty clear if you actually read what is on the Apple site that what is listed is sneak peek and a glimpse of what Lion will be... They aren't going to show the best stuff now, there would no wow factor left for when they have the final release if they did.


You're certainly right about that. But I have to wonder, given how underwhelming what they had to show off was, why did they bother? Announce the App Store and the new MBA, and be done with it. There was nothing exciting about what they had to show of Lion, so why dilute the launch of the App Store and MBA with it?

I hope they aren't trying to lower expectations.



Rps said:


> I thought that even Windows sit on DOS


This hasn't been the case since Windows NT, back in the '90s. Windows is a derivative of VMS in the same way OS X is a derivative of Unix. Both are powerful, fully multitasking, multi-user operating systems that use virtual memory other features of modern OS architecture. Indeed, since Vista, it's been pretty hard to argue that OS X has any advantage over Windows as an operating system. The advantages of OS X are largely restricted to the UI layer, and the fact that, due it's small market share, it hasn't been the target of malware developers.

On the one hand, I'm glad to see that the OS X team at Apple are still working on UI stuff, because that's really what distinguishes OS X from Windows, but I wasn't impressed by anything demoed yesterday, so I really hope that Screature is right about the best being saved for the official release.

Meanwhile, I really hope they're working on fixing some of the remaining places where OS X lags behind Windows so severely (like gracefully handling loss of network connectivity, lack of memory address space randomization, the antique file system and consequent limitations on metadata searching, etc.).

I was also very disappointed at the lack of an iWork update and the insipid iLife update (still 32 bit?!?).

The only remotely interesting aspect of the announcement was the App Store, and even that has some disturbing implications; I don't want my Mac to be a walled garden. I want to be able to download and run whatever I choose on my computer.

So, from my POV, this was one of the most disappointing Apple announcements ever.


----------



## spiffychristian (Mar 17, 2008)

Lars said:


> I'm willing to bet that most people in denial today about Lion will, in fact, upgrade to Lion.  (And we'll all get used to it regardless when new machines ship with Lion pre-installed and no longer support Snow Leopard.)
> 
> I agree with what 'screature' has said. Way too premature to jump to conclusions about Lion based on a sneak preview.


i'm sure it is premature and i'm more than sure that i will probably end up upgrading sooner or later.

the app store will be good i think, hopefully there won't be restrictions. 

one thing i hope to see in lion is an actual app uninstaller made by apple. windows has had it for years, and i have used appcleaner on my mac, but i want to see apple come out with something they should have had for years


----------



## screature (May 14, 2007)

fjnmusic said:


> If they tell you too much in the preview, why would you pay to see the actual show? It's like movie trailers today; no sense of mystery left. Leave the primping and promissory notes to the competitors. Apple works best when they don't tell you everything until there is something to tell.


+1 Exactly!


----------



## screature (May 14, 2007)

bryanc said:


> You're certainly right about that. But I have to wonder, given how underwhelming what they had to show off was, why did they bother? Announce the App Store and the new MBA, and be done with it. There was nothing exciting about what they had to show of Lion, so why dilute the launch of the App Store and MBA with it?
> 
> *I hope they aren't trying to lower expectations*.


Interesting... Everything they have shown is relative to how the new Lion will be more like an iPad experience and everything they showed of Lion is shown on a Macbook Air and all about how gestures on a trackpad will make for a new experience (relative to the iPad), so maybe it is a marketing strategy to tie it into the release of the MBA to lure potential iPad buyers to pay more to boost the sales of the new product... just a thought.

Also with the recent release of the MagicPad showing these features will (should) please MagicPad owners and again maybe lure more buyers to the MagicPad because of these new features that will be accessible through gestures.. again just a thought.

Another thought... If they are using this sneak peak to lower expectations, maybe they are doing so in a counter intuitive manner, i.e. setting certain people up for a disappointment only to really blow them away with the final release... now *that* would be a real surprise.  Not saying it is the case but again... just a thought.


----------



## greydoggie (Apr 21, 2009)

I won't be getting it unless it has some features I really want or it's cheap to buy like Snow Leopard was. That's the only reason I went to Snow Leopard.


----------



## Mr.Tickles (Mar 25, 2009)

Stephanie said:


> For me, the concern is that the Mac App Store (along with the other sneak preview features) could indicate a gradual locking down of the Mac along the lines of the iOS platform. In two years, will we start to hear about people Jailbreaking their Macs? I hope not.


A lot of people would move to Windows or Linux if this happened. I really only use mac at all because of no spyware and better UI.


----------



## mikef (Jun 24, 2003)

I will be getting it the day it comes out. I refuse to make a silly judgement based on a few features previewed very early.

It surprised me that Apple continues to sell product because given this thread and many others reflecting on the new products, not one person is happy with a thing they do.


----------



## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

mikef said:


> I will be getting it the day it comes out. I refuse to make a silly judgement based on a few features previewed very early.
> 
> It surprised me that Apple continues to sell product because given this thread and many others reflecting on the new products, not one person is happy with a thing they do.


Actually, there does seem to be growing resentment of being forced to do things the Apple way. I stick with Apple because they are safer and easier than Windows and Linux. When Apple hits my breaking point of too few features or not enough flexibility (and they are getting close) then it will be goodbye time. Not a threat and I don't expect Apple to care about 1 or even hundreds of users. Apple seems to be eying the greener grass of new users with little regard for existing users.


Yes, this was just a preview but it is fairly indicative of where Apple feels they need to go. I won't be going with them. Yes I will check out the final product but I don't hold out much hope. When my current hardware bites the dust (and it will) I will strongly consider the alternatives rather than just move on to the latest Apple product.


----------



## thegoat54 (Nov 20, 2007)

I gotta say, I love my MBP 13" - But if apple moves to a system of App Store only. I'm outta here. Although I doubt that would happen, you gotta admit Apple would love to do that. ...

30% cut of all Apps? Why wouldn't Apple want to lock it down? If that happened, I'd be loading up bootcamp and moving back to Windows. I won't be "Jailbreaking" my laptop.

As for being a developer, I can see the benefits of the "impulse" buy the App Store might provide. But that 30% cut is steep!

I really wasn't impressed with what they showed off. Thats all I have to say. . . If they have more features that impress when it launches. I'll get it. Only time will tell.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

mikef said:


> I will be getting it the day it comes out. I refuse to make a silly judgement based on a few features previewed very early.
> 
> It surprised me that Apple continues to sell product because given this thread and many others reflecting on the new products, not one person is happy with a thing they do.


Maybe just avoid visiting the rumor sites or even this thread - which it basically is, or is your glass just always 1/2 empty?? ;-)

And I'm sure Apple is reading such posts and treads and they know very well that if they mess up royally they will loose all or part of all that they have gained and accomplished over the years - and still, so far, many satisfied Mac users.


----------



## bryanc (Jan 16, 2004)

mikef said:


> ...given this thread and many others reflecting on the new products, not one person is happy with a thing they do.


I've been very happy with what Apple has been doing since 2002. But I'm unimpressed with what they appear to be doing now. Just because they've been doing great things in the past does not guarantee that they will continue to do great things in the future.

Indeed, I think a great deal of their motivation to do great things in the past decade has been the fact that they've been the minority platform/underdog, and the only way for them to get any attention at all was by being significantly better than the big players (Microsoft, HP, Dell, Nokeia, etc.) and they were.

Now that they've won a dominant share of some markets (PMP, smart phones, tablets), and have become the media darling even in markets where they are small (PCs), there is much less pressure on them to create products that are much better for consumers, and much more temptation to create products that will lock-in the consumers they've got. Meanwhile, Microsoft has been feeling the heat, and has made some pretty impressive changes. Windows 7 is a major improvement over Vista, which was a major architectural improvement over XP. Windows Phone 7 is looking like a serious competitor, and Android is going to be tough to stay ahead of as well.

I am really hoping that, despite the media focus on iOS and Apple's silence on OS X over the past 18 months, that major strides have been made in Cupertino, and that the next version of OS X will reopen the gap keeping the Mac '5 years ahead' of Windows. What was demoed has not supported that hope. I won't be jumping to any conclusions until I see the final product, but I'm not as optimistic as I was.


----------



## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

Mr.Tickles said:


> A lot of people would move to Windows or Linux if this happened. I really only use mac at all because of no spyware and better UI.


Umm, you just kinda contradicted yourself. :yikes:


----------



## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Is it me, or is anyone else getting a sense of deja vu? Every year, or so, Apple previews their upcoming OS and a handful of people get disappointed because it wasn't what they were expecting.

Pavlov's dog for Apple users. LOL


----------



## mikef (Jun 24, 2003)

mannyp design said:


> is it me, or is anyone else getting a sense of deja vu? Every year, or so, apple previews their upcoming os and a handful of people get disappointed because it wasn't what they were expecting.
> 
> Pavlov's dog for apple users. Lol


+1


----------



## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

MannyP Design said:


> Pavlov's dog for Apple users. LOL


I, for one, have never felt the need to complain about potential future releases. This is a first although I'm waiting to see what actually comes out. I do have my fears based on the preview. 

Actually somewhat insulted that others feel the need to pooh-pooh the opinions of other members. Comment on the topic, not the posters.


----------



## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

I have to ask: What has Apple done with MacOS X (present and future) that has restricted anybody from doing anything.

Aside from printing Finder windows*. 

_*A personal pet peeve._


----------



## jeepguy (Apr 4, 2008)

screature said:


> Also with the recent release of the MagicPad showing these features will (should) please MagicPad owners and again maybe lure more buyers to the MagicPad because of these new features that will be accessible through gestures.. again just a thought.


it also gave me the sense that apple is gearing up for a touch screen iMac.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

MannyP Design said:


> I have to ask: What has Apple done with MacOS X (present and future) that has restricted anybody from doing anything.
> 
> Aside from printing Finder windows*.
> 
> _*A personal pet peeve._


Yes, some of us miss the old Classic OS 'print window' function but there's still the command-shift-4 option.

I'm sure I came across an applescript for OS X a while back but I can't locate it, and there's always the "Print Window" utility that you could try.

Searchware Solutions: Print Window


----------



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

jeepguy said:


> it also gave me the sense that apple is gearing up for a touch screen iMac.


Ew, please no.

A touch screen iMac would be worse than Lion.


----------

