# Would you live in the US or Canada given the choice



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

As you likely realize I'm not that fond of the elephant to the south. I would be curious to see how ehMacians respond to this question

*"Given similar levels of income, housing and employment opportunity would you choose to live in the US or in Canada.

Why?" * 

If you actually made that choice we'd be delighted to hear why and any other kind of anecdotes along this line of "choosing a country".

I'm going to try and get some viewpoints from other nations so if you know friends or relatives elsewhere point them here.

If you have another choice of "where to live" all's fair and fun here but do declare your poll answer.  

I have a challenge for adventurous ehMacians. Cruise the world a bit and pose this question in open forums where relevant.

The question has been asked in Australia
http://www.publicdebate.com.au/reaction/

and about to be in Turkey
http://www.turkey.com/forums/

Let's see if we can get some "everyday people" views. 

[ December 31, 2003, 03:26 AM: Message edited by: MacDoc ]


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Canada, obviously. I can live and work freely on either side of the border (I have a special visa)...but I chose Canada. It's my home and I was born here. I love the place.

Having said that, I should also note that I feel very much at home in the USA. I lived and worked there...or worked for an American company, in a third country, for much of my life.

And I loved it. They treated me with total fairness and much respect...even though I was a foreigner. I certainly was never made to feel as though I did not belong. Anywhere.

(Except maybe parts of Wyoming. But most Americans also feel a bit unwanted and alien in Wyoming. It's a wierd place. Trust me on this).







 

I honestly think that most Canadians could move down to the States and feel right at home after a very short time. It's a very cool place to live! Just ask some of our most famous Canadians. That's where they have chosen to spend their lives.  

Funny about that, eh?


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

I used to think I could retire in Florida, but no more. I can't live in a fortress.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Wait awhile, macspectrum. If CSIS and the RCMP and most of the Canadian and American Security sevices are correct in their predictions. And if what they think will happen very soon, actually comes to pass....

Then that Florida "Fortress" will start looking awfully attractive to you. 









Or, you might just find yourself living in one of your own.


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## LGBaker (Apr 15, 2002)

Having grown up (?) in the lower mainland, very near to the border and, having spent a lot of time in the US when I was a child visiting cousins, I feel fairly comfortable with the idea of living south of the 49th. There are lots of things I don't like there, but there are a lot I don't like here. Politicians, economists, insurance agents, realtors, fast food.....

There are wonderful places to see and experience in the US and some fine people to share them with.

I live in Canada by choice. This is my home, for better and for worse. I would like to travel again, though. My daughter, son-in-law and grandson will be moving to Nashville early in 2004. This will give me the impetus I need to visit the SouthEastern US and I am really looking forward to it. Have to practice my southern drawl...pass the crawdads.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

"Oh Gerald...." (in my best Laura Petrie voice)

I have made alternate plans.
Fortress not included.

I live by the philosophy of; "It takes 10% of the energy to avoid a problem than it does to fix it."

Amerika is spending lots of money and I don't know if the avg. Amerikan feels any safer.
Look at the Israelis. They throw tons of money they don't have at the problem in their country and are they any safer?
I think this is what may become of the U.S.

A very well marketed police state.

Look at macdoc's report about the 3 hour wait at the border.

Amerika would be getting much beter return on its dollar if they invested in old fahioned diplomacy (i.e. not at the end of a cruise missile)

Remember the old proverb about "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he eats for life."

After 9/11 Amerika really had a glorious chance to take the sorrow felt all over the world and become a true world leader by example.

Dubya et al blew this chance.

The military-industrial complex is very happy they did.

The people of Amerika are paying the price for PNAC's vision of the future.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Let's stick to topic a bit and real reasons for or against..we likely have enough pro and con Bush venues.

Let's hear about schools, taxes, guns, lawyers, culture etc why or why not you would choose one over the other.

I'm hoping to get some unbiased participation from elsewhere as being Canadian sort of tilts the scale.

Go opinion hunting - see what the world thinks.  

BTW I think as individuals many if not most American's are exemplary in their approach to visitors.
Institutionally on the other hand........


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> real reasons for or against..


my real reason is that I don't feel safe in Amerika
- i have to watch what i say, as was evidenced by my most recent "wing crawl"
real or perceived, it really doesn't matter

and i really had plans to retire in Florida and I have adjusted those plans

taxes, health care, people, etc. - i can deal with most of that - i had plans to deal with those eventualities, but now, for the first time when visiting the U.S. i truly feel like a foreigner


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Macspectrum...I suppose that you are one of the rapidly shrinking minority of people in North America who still believe that Al Gore would have been a better President than George W.

And that Gore could somehow have "negotiated" our way out of the mess that Clinton left for us.

Perhaps even by utilising the amazing powers of the UN?









Sorry. That was a silly giggle you just heard in the background. I apologise, old friend. I didn't mean to make fun. Really I didn't.

Watch what unfolds regarding the true underpinnings of the most powerful European members of the UN during Saddam's upcoming trial. THEN decide for yourself, if that course of action ever really had a chance.

As for whether most Americans feel safer under the new rules or not...well...pretty much all of the polls say that they do.

Pretty much all across the board. Although some of them think it hasn't gone far enough. 

But there have been no new attacks on American soil, so far. So it seems to be working.

And many of the perpetrators of the previous attacks are now in jail or on the run. The rest are being pursued actively as we speak. The whole region that gave rise to this outrage has been dealt with in a very decisive manner...and things are changing for the better in that area. Big Time!

Al Gore wouldn't have had the stones to accomplish this much in such a short time. Nothing in his personal makeup indicates this. The American public is acutely aware of this fact.

Probably why he is far in the background these days. Instead of leading the pack of Democratic hopefuls for the job of President.

Nor is it likely that he would have been able to get the US economy back on track so quickly...without ever actually experiencing a true recession.(Gore would have, after all, inherited the same major downturn that George W. ended up with. It started well before the election. Almost six months before the new President...whoever he might have been... took power.)

The American economy is currently growing at a greater rate than it has in twenty years. It has been doing thjis for several months now. Far faster, and with more real substance, than it ever did under Bill Clinton's "bubble economy".

The Dow Industrials are within a few hundred points of their record historical highs. Even without the false bubble of the Clinton era!

And terrorism seems to be on the run. EVERYWHERE!

So...why not cut the guy a bit of slack? He's doing pretty good, after all!   

And it's very likely that he will be re-elected at this point. Especially if Howard Dean gets the Democratic nomination. 

Dr. Dean ..."Howard MEAN" according to his staff, has been busy trying to destroy his own chances for the Presidency by making stupid statements over the last few months. Dean's campaign has been plagued recently by a laminated card that shows Howard with his leg pulled up real high and his shoe pointed at his head.

It says..."Insert Foot in Mouth. Rinse and Repeat" 

Even his own campaign staff have been seen laughing over this card. And carrying it around to show others. For a good giggle.

The guy doesn't have a chance.

George W. will blow him out of the water. Big Time.

That's my prediction. I stand by it.

Care to make your own? And stand by it?

I'm listening. So are several others, I'd bet.

Fly at it!  

[ December 31, 2003, 04:49 AM: Message edited by: macnutt ]


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Macnutt = take a hint - there are lots of other places including new threads to spout US politics-
Start new thread instead of littering this one









You DO have an edit button.

Got a couple of interesting responses already in Australia. One for Canada claiming we smell sweeter







and the other a fairly balanced and informed view of plus and minuses.

He and MacNutt would be pals tho - thinks we are bit too left for his taste.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

This whole Forum is a bit too far left for the taste of most thinking individuals. No Sh*t!!
















It's totally out of step with the rest of the real world.

I just keep plugging away here because I like this place...and I never walk away from a challenge!   

You people are smart and witty and terribly interesting. You are some of the coolest people I have never met!  

And I just keep on thinking that...with a little nudge or two...you will all begin to see the reality that is all around you.

WITHOUT the ideological blinders that seem to be screwed down really tight.

Preventing any light from entering. Give it a try.

Just a thought.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

What! You are going into the foggy rose coloured glasses biz now.......just for us? - along with your very own steak biz - from loved animals raised by hand in gentle rolling hills.

Such diversity, such perspicuity.

Got the vellum and quill pen ready for the prophecies yet. You shuld have lots of cows blood on hand for a really cool look to them.








now about that editing move to another thread.


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

Canada, _definitely_.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

I love Canada, my home...but sometimes the political environment and our lack of leadership truly pi$$es me off. That Aussie was right, sometimes we're too "politically correct". I also feel we lack an identity, when compared to our neighbours to the south... unless of course, multiculturalism *IS* our identity. (Mounties in red tunics, aside  )

Between 1984 and 1994 I spent more time in the US than in Canada, traversed all 48 mainland states multiple times. My favorite area is the southwest, more specifically New Mexico. I came close to actually making the move permanently. For a while, Yakima, WA was my base of operations, but I wouldn't live there. I feel the US offers more opportunity to entrepreneurs but not the "working stiff", unless you and your skills are in high demand. 

Anyway, I love Canada and I have no plans to leave it.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> multiculturalism IS our identity.


exactly
what a wonderful experiement multiculturialism has turned out to be for Canada
Canada one of only two countries in the world to embrace offiicial multiculturalism. Australia is the other.

even before official multiculturalism, my father after visiting the U.S. said he felt "like an individual human being in Canada and just a number in the U.S."
that made him decide to settle in Canada


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Canada with no question. 

I have too many ancestors who died to keep this country what it is to abandon it. There is lots NOT to like if you look for it. Too much taxation, government by an appointed dictator (The PM). Any way you cut it, we have never elected one yet, only the party has that privilege. Poor laws in the young offenders area. Other laws that are too liberal, ie: marijuana, the definition of marriage and the parole board releasing hardened criminals to re-offend, far too often. 

There is good too if you look for it. Friendly people, four seasons, nature's splendor, abundant resources and fresh water.

I enjoy visiting the US. They too have lots to see and marvel at. While I now shun heavily populated areas like Florida and California, I hasten to return to places like Oregon, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, North and South Dakota, Nevada and Arizona. These states are best seen by motor home to take advantage of their remote beauty.

Possible reasons people might be attracted to live in the US could include things like tax deductible mortgages and lower income tax. But these benefits in my opinion, are offset by higher health care costs and far too many guns.

My 0.02 cents.

Cheers


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## Guinness (Jan 4, 2002)

>> MacNutt: WITHOUT the ideological blinders that seem to be screwed down really tight.

Preventing any light from entering. Give it a try. <<


Some have blinders on that don't admit any light, some don't and are blinded by that same light, MacNutt. You and MacSpectrum are both playing games which highlight the extreme ends of the issue. I sit somewhere in the middle. I certainly don't feel America is any more at fault for the ills of the world than any other country, including Canada, however, I also feel that they have been doing less to provide a viable long term solution than m,ost other countries. At this point I am quite prepared to say enough with the blame, let's get on with fixing the problem. Re-energize the UN. Work with it to make it work, don't toss it out as irrelevant simply because it will force you to face some realities that are different from those you choose to accept.

As far as the primary poiint of the the thread, I choose Canada. From the long term perspective, we have the land, the resources, and the people to make this country into a "home" the likes of which man has never seen. 

Mike


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

I've lived in the US, UK and Canada and travel frequently. I was in the US 12 times last year and have many friends there. It's a beautiful country, like Canada, and its people are diverse. You can't generalize. But when it comes to lifestyle, I far prefer Canada's (including over the UK).

Reasons (obviously with generalizations)? Canadians seem to care about others, have effective safety nets, are not driven primarily by greed, have reasonable expectations, appreciate that someone (themselves) have to pay for infrastructure, don't waste $$ on bullets, have a safe environment, do not mix religeon and State, are as cosmopolitan as it gets, are egalitarian in principle (via progressive taxes), have healthcare for all, don't have chips on their shoulders and are not dogmatic.

These values are shared by many Americans but the vision of the American Dream is at odds with raising the overall standard of living. The US seems to believe that the average standard of living is OK with extremes on both sides. Here, the scale is compressed and the average, while perhaps a little lower than in the US, is more livable and hopeful. I'm sure that this contributes to the huge discrepancy in crime and murder rates. Of course poverty and dispair is a significant issue in Canada and we don't do enough. But adject poverty is rare and the simple fact that children of refugee-status immigrants tend to do better than 3rd generation Canadians is an indication that our society offers hope and opportunity and is blind to many of the discriminatory factors under the surface of many societies.

We shouldn't be complacent, however, since there is considerable pressure from the US for us to adopt many of its policies (guns on planes, more military spending, detention without charge of suspects, etc.). This isn't surprising since the mentality of the US administration (Dem or Rep) is to convert the unwashed. This missionary attitude is based on the conviction that the American way is The True Way. Chill out and smell the roses.


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## imactheknife (Aug 7, 2003)

I guess I will make an entry on this...for one NEVER would I live in Las Vegas! it is like an accident waiting to happen all over the place...people are so freakin impatient on the roads, on the sidewalks...everyone lives in the fast lane and more or less the dead lane....we saw an accident the other night...car rolled off the I15 in vegas down a steep imbankment..cop cars all over the place and in the middle of the road alittle furthur down..5 cops standing around what looked like feet coming out from under a blanket covering the rest of someone....YUCK...but not shocking in the least bit

my taste of the states always gets more bitter when I come down.....sure I might meet some nice americans and have a good converstion but then they always ruin it by making some generalized brainwashed comment like "mad cows are all from Canada" I believe he got a punch!

In Las Vegas for example (population of 3 million +) they don't recycle here or anywhere else in Nevada...you should see the freakin trash all over the place...newspapers, bottles (beer, pop, you name it) all over the ground, in waste buckets....you would think that they would actually give a rats butt about cleanliness here...disgusting!! and freakin expensive to boot! (2 beers in the new york new york $10 bucks!)

The pollution is another story and thanks to DUBBYA for not giving a [email protected]*! about the environment the smog over Las Vegas and even Denver is appalling! I know in CANADA we have our own but COME ON!! it's sickening to look out over the horizion and see this....well I guess the almighty american dollar is worth more than the environment and the future that will become of ignorance...

I can't say this for all the states and I have crossed many states but these are just some of my observations on this trip...

I will always be happy to live in the AWESOME country of CANADA..even though our gov't gets on my nerves and we pay high taxes...but at least we are very diverse, and SMART caring people...we actually care about the future of the world..at least I do!

I am not stating americans don't care..thier gov't seems to not see immediate problems with the issues at hand..

Funny thing is...Las Vegas is in the middle of a desert..it has water..but they are running dry...lake mead has dropped to it's lowest levels in 30 years...and it continues to grow here! 

another disturbing thought on Las Vegas...over the next ten years truck loads of nuclear waste in going to be travelling from all over the US and it will end up in a mountain in NEVADA...2 hours away from VEGAS..were not talking about a few buckets...try 100 000 gallons a week of this stuff...the US gov't actually carved out a hole in this mountain strictly for this purpose!! cool eh! my brother says in ten years his property here will be worth half or less if he stays here....

oh well...guess nuclear waste has to go somewhere...  some sobering thoughts.....

Happy NEW Years!!!! going down to the SUNcoast casino to drink now! CHEERS, Mark


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

What I am seeing here is that many of us really LIKE the US, and feel that we could live there (or...like myself, HAVE lived there)...but pretty much all of us prefer the "kinder gentler" approach of Canada. Especially when we start to talk about multiculturalism or social programs.

Also...many of us have mentioned the very high taxes that we Canadians are forced to pay for these cherished social programs. Most of us seem to think that it is painful, but worth it.

I would tend to agree.  

Except for one small detail....

Our terribly high taxes aren't actually paying for these much-loved social programs. Especially the biggest one. Free health care.

Free Health care in Canada is currently financed using borrowed money, at the Provincial level. It used to be financed by borrowed money at the Federal level, but Jean Chretien decided to offload the actual costs to the Provinces in order to "balance" the Federal budget.

This resulted in huge cheers from anyone who failed grade six math. It scared the heck out of the rest of us.

It also caused the Provinces to go into full damage control mode. This resulted in major cost cutting and new borrowing all across the land. 

While the Federal Liberals were busy patting themselves on the back, and popping champagne corks and congratulating themselves for "eliminating the budget deficit", all of the Provincial leaders were gritting their teeth and pulling out the scissors to start slashing other services in order to cover this massive new expense that had suddenly been dropped in their laps. Without any warning at all!

They were also floating brand new bond issues and borrowing heavily on the future to pay the bills for all of this social spending.

BC currently spends 42% of it's total budget on "free" health care. In Nova Scotia it is over 50%.

For ONE program!  

A program that, by the way, will suddenly double or triple in costs over the next ten years because the biggest single demographic group will start using it in massive numbers as they enter their twilight years.

They will also be paying far less taxes at that point, since most of them will be retired by then.

Vastly less income to the Provincial budget at exactly the same time that there is a giant increase in demand for the terribly expensive "free" health care that we all love so much.

No one even wants to imagine what this will do to the Provincial budgets. Or how much it will add to the already massive overhanging debt load that we ALL have to pay interest on. Billions of dollars in interest. Out of our shrinking tax dollars. Every year.

Increasing amounts. Every single year.

Scary stuff. No question about it.

High taxes are fine, as long as they are paying for something we all want and need.

They are NOT! Not even close!

It's all borrowed money.  

Want to celebrate our wonderful social programs?

Fine.

Then we all need to find some way to make them sustainable at our current taxation levels. We need to all work towards this goal....starting right NOW!

Or we need to all prepare ourselves for the inevitable outcome that is currently staring us in the face.

Which is:

The same high taxation levels (or even higher ones!)...

_WITHOUT_ the benefit of our currently popular social programs. They will have all collapsed like a house of cards in the next decade. Sure as hell. 

No money to pay for them. None.

Because, at that point, we will all be busy paying off the debts of a previous generation. Or, most probably, just covering the interest on the money that they borrowed to pay for their own "free" health care.

Want to change this nightmare scenario? Great! So do I! Let's start working on it right away! A workable solution can be found...once we all agree that the current situation is totally unsustainable. We CAN fix this!

But we HAVE to all be on the same page. We all have to agree that there really IS a problem. One that can be fixed.

Or....we can just pretend it will all go away. That 'new sources of funding' will be suddenly and magically found, in a shrinking budget. That interest on massive debt loads can be eliminated or written off, while we incur even bigger debt loads.

Good luck on that.
















Don't mind paying high taxes? Just so long as you can live in a freindly country with great social programs? I am with you on this! One HUNDRED per cent!

We do NOT have this now! Not by a long shot! We currently have an unsustainable system that is ready to collapse under the weight of massive debt!

But, we CAN re-make our system and turn it into something sustainable.

Something that will last. Something to be proud of.

Something REAL!

Your choice. Choose wisely.

Or...ignore it and pretend that there is no problem. Or that it can all be solved with a bit of bugetary fiddling.

Go ahead. Stick your collective heads in the sand. Be my guest.

But be prepared to face the consequences for your inaction. These consequences will not be particularly pleasant. 

And, if you wait too long to deal with this problem, you may just find that your beloved country will become a very different place to live in.

A far less "kind and gentle" place.

While STILL being saddled with high taxation levels. Probably even higher than they are now.

Trust me on this.

[ January 01, 2004, 04:08 AM: Message edited by: macnutt ]


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

i wonder macnutt if your "back 40" property on SSI is being taxed at Market Value Assessment levels?
You claim how valued the property is there and how high the prices are. This would make for an excellent tax base, yes?
Help pay for some of those "pesky" social programs and that crazy "free health care"
Just wonderin'


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## Bertrand (Fr) (Nov 14, 2003)

Hello, 

Since you want my opinion, here it is thus. 

Without any hesitation I will prefer live in Canada. 
People there are much more friendly and make at least the effort of speaking French contrary to American. 

American is pretentious, vanitious and dirty. I can't believe they put feet on moon ! This was a good Dreamworks picture.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Vive La France. France would be my second choice (especially the South, but also the West, Dodogne, Normandy, oh and the North, and the West is good too, Alsace). J'aime la France, les français et tout français.

To paraphrase/precis macnutts diatribe: he notes that we like the US but prefer our kinder, gentler way of life. Then we get a stream of consciousness over "free" healthcare.

Macnutt didn't explicitly say it, but he clearly believes we should be paying for private healthcare as this is the only way to bail out the system and maintain current levels of service.

There are problems, for sure, but I believe that if you asked Canadians what was the single most important difference between Canada and the USA that they would wish to preserve, it would be our healthcare system - as a full, equal access system. Somehow, healthcare fell off the Charter of Human Rights in the US. People are denied healthcare if they cannot pay or can no longer pay. The Canadian healthcare system is stumbling. The US heathcare system is a total train wreck.

So what's the answer? Reform and efficiency and removal of unnecessary levels of beaurocracy. The system is reforming itself. Our drugs are substantially cheaper than the US (for the exact same product). Hospitals are becoming better managed.

We are not even at Code Orange in our healthcare threat levels. The US is at Code Flashing Red but people are otherwise distracted. The dead don't vote.

The principle of socialized medicine is here to stay and this principle has been reaffirmed over and over again.


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## ErnstNL (Apr 12, 2003)

I would prefer Canada, mais sure, for all these reasons:
Healthcare, people, our even temperment, our roles as keepers of peace not war, guns, our government system (parliament), safety nets (only civilized countries treat their citizens with compassion, imho), our large unspoiled spaces, interesting and unique cities like Montreal and many, many more reasons. This is great place to live. 

I love Canada. 

Healthcare examples: 
1)This is a true story, it happened last month. 
My co-worker friend was in L.A. at a conference, had a problem that needed emergency life saving surgery, ended up costing $170,000.00 (not a joke!) US dollars, final bill, for 7 days in intensive care, 3 days in private room. The healthcare was excellent and he got the best treatment possible. Is back on his feet, Blue Cross and Province pays majority of bill. Where would I be if I was living in US without proper insurance? Alive, but paying for a bill for the rest of my life. 

Example 2) 
Happened in November:
Daughter's boyfriend was in Houston, Tx. doing a work term for oilpatch company, got the flu, 3 days sick, was dehydrated, went to the doctor, was admitted to hospital on condition he had $1600.00 up front to pay for his overnight stay. He's from Calgary and his mother fought with hospital to get him in. The drug bills were another $1200.00.
What a great way to live.


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## RISK (Jan 3, 2004)

Not sure if my last post made it out or not--if you whack the wrong key accidentally things seem to head into the ether... Anyhow, I'm a dual Canadian/US citizen who has lived in both countries about equally but now lives in Canada by choice. I like it here.

I'd live in the US when young and trying to "make it," Canada to raise a family or when older. Those who claim to live in the best country in the world without living in others are pretty blind either way. I feel Canadian, but enjoyed living in the US. That said, I left the US when things started to seem just too weird (about '98). I might make slightly less $ working here than I would in the states, but then again I have health insurance and like Canadians. Today it is -25 here, and I wish I were living in Tahiti for the week but overall I'm very happy living in Canada. I'm proud of Canada for staying the hell out of Iraq, I'm proud that my Canadian passport elicits a very different response than my US passport when I show it in any country in the world, and I'm proud to pay slightly higher taxes so that those less fortunate don't end up living on the streets as in many of the big US cities. 

My greatest fear for Canada is that this country will try to become more "competitive" and somehow American. Canada's economics simply don't work the same way as those in the United States; we have too few people spread out over too great an area for the simplistic US economics to truly work here (not that they're working there either for any but the very rich). I would prefer a model closer to Iceland's or Norway's (these change around a lot too, but overall I like the quality of life in those countries also).

I've also seen far too many American families making OK money but unable to afford basic health care for their families. Some friends of mine make about USD$40,00 a year (not tons, but not anywhere close to "poverty"), yet they can't afford anything but catastrophic health insurance. It's been brutal to watch them agonize over gong to the doctor for a potentially busted ankle, sickness or whatever.

Canada isn't perfect, but overall it's a good place to live. I like the more international feel, politics, economics and even the damn climate... This is not a blind trust that Canada is great and the US bad; both countries have great strengths and problems, the trick is to try and make the best of where you are and help the country you live in become a better place to live. Time to walk the dog in -25, oh Canada...


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## blue sky (Oct 24, 2003)

Canada is definitely the place to live. Mind you, there are a few places in the US that I wouldn't mind spending a few months each year.

Sinc, I believe, wrote :


> But these benefits in my opinion, are offset by higher health care costs and far too many guns.


Canada apparently has as many guns, or more, per capita as the States. (Of course, I am going by the diligent fact-checking of Mr. Moore of Bowling for Columbine fame, as I try to have nothing to do with guns.)

There are many Americans whom I have met that I would call friends, and I respect their opinions, disagree with them, and hope that they respect my opinion. 

Both countries have good and bad points. Canada is just a nicer place, even with all the right-wingers trying to make us more like America.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

I live in Canada, so it's a no-brainer of a question. I have lived briefly in NYC and it was an amazing time, but I enjoy what makes us different from our American cousins. I often find Americans as individuals very open and friendly. I have a harder time with various American administrations and American patriotism that gets wound a tad too tight sometimes. 

There are as many beautiful places in America as there are in Canada, so it's not a question of geography to me. And I doubt I'd have a terribly hard time down there if I had to resettle; they speak English, for one thing, and I already have lots of American acquaintances... I suppose I just prefer the Canuck way.

Of course, it's easier to say that than to precisely outline what makes a Canuck different from a Yank; that's fodder for miles of threading.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Macspectrum...

I already pay massive taxes on this place. My tax bill alone could...and DOES support...many individuals whole live solely on Government tax money insead of real income. Several of my oilpatch buddies have complained about paying between sixty and onehundred and fifty thousand dollars in income taxes each year. 

Each.

If any of thes guys move down into the USA or go International, their tax burden drops to HALF of that.Or even ZERO. (Many of them do...every single year, BTW)

Think about that little fact.

And think about all of the very famous Canadians who have chosen to live in the States (that would be pretty much ALL of them) and who are no longer paying the massive Canadian taxes that we all rely on to support this unsustainable system.

Their huge homegrown salaries are no longer available to us. Not one red cent of them! The best and brightest are fleeing this country in droves.

And...even if they ALL stayed and payed...it STILL wouldn't be enough to keep it all running. Not even CLOSE!

And...despite what some people have said here, I am not necessarily stuck on any single soloution to our current Health care crisis. But, I sure do know that we have one! Right here and right now!!

And we need to fix it! Right NOW!!  

Let's all work together to find some REAL solutions. In order to preserve our most cherished social programs.

Or...we can all play "pretend... and then act very surprised when they fail and die a few short years from now.

Your choice. Choose carefully.

[ January 04, 2004, 05:46 AM: Message edited by: macnutt ]


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Oh...and I am always amazed when someone post an example of the "difference" between the "actual" costs in the USA compared to Canada.

And I just have to say that the people who choose to post these naieve numbers just "don't get it" quite yet.

Every time you get sick or injured in Canada, and require attention from health care professionals...especially in a hospital...a massive bill for expensive services is sent to your Provincial Government. THOUSANDS of dollars!

You never see the majority of this. So you imagine that it doesn't exist. Or that somebody ELSE will pay for it.

In the USA, you will see the actual bill. And it will shock you.

Just as it would in Canada, if you were shown the actual costs.

Health care is terribly expensive. In ANY country. It's NOT cheap...it's not even remotely close to "FREE".

EVER!

But, here in Canada, we never see the actual bill. Instead, it's sent to the Province (it used to be shared 50/50 by the Federal government, before Jean Chretien decided to "balance the budget". Now it's strictly borne by the Province you live in.)

So....the Provincial Government get the massive bill. And a whole WHACK of other massive health care bills. Every SINGLE day! 

And they have a limited amount of tax revenues to use to pay these bills. PLUS the enormous wages that the doctors and nurses and floor sweepers and cooks and every one else in the hospital deamand to do their jobs. PLUS all of their benefits.

PLUS building roads and paying high schoolteacher salaries and building schools and buying textbooks and computers and paying out massive benefits to all of the retired people who used to do these jobs. And a whole LOT of other things!

All from your tax dollars, at a Provincial level.

Currently, your Provincial Governments are spending almost HALF, or just over half, of all of the available money on "free" health care. Right NOW!

Imagine what will happen when the biggest single group of Canadian taxpayers start retiring in droves over the next ten years!

They will STOP paying into the system!

And...at the very same time...will start to USE the system of "free" health care in unprecedented numbers!

A huge drop in income at the very same time as we have a massive increase in demand. 

Gee...that ought to work out just GREAT, eh? 









Want to do something to fix the problem? Or do you wnt to hide your head in the sand, and pretend that it will "all go away"?

You all have a choice.

Make your choice. Soon.

There is no time to waste. None at all, really.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

blue sky quoted me in his last post and I would like to correct the quote. He quoted me word for word by the way, no problem with that at all. I did however miss an intended word when I wrote:

"But these benefits in my opinion, are offset by higher health care costs and far too many guns."

I should in fact have written: "But these benefits in my opinion, are offset by higher health care costs and far too many *hand * guns."

This changes the meaning significantly and is much more accruate.

Cheers


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Good morning, Sinc.

MacNutt, I would have to agree with your words of warning/caution re healthcare ("You all have a choice. Make your choice. Soon. There is no time to waste. None at all, really."). The next government HAS to make this a priority, along with education and the environment. I am not for a two-tier system, but there needs to be changes.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Martin has put Healthcare as his number 1 priority , Dr. G. Not too surprising given that it is also the number one priority of Canadians. The solution is not two-tier healthcare as the US solution is a disaster. 

Of course there is no "free" healthcare in Canada. We pay for it through our taxes. Since taxes are based on the principle of ability to pay, this ensures that people who cannot afford to pay their bills for a catastrophic illness or accident will not suffer.

I pay taxes too and its the price for a stable and non-paranoid society that values everyone equally and a place where my kids have every opportunity. If you are paying $100,000 in taxes, you are earning about $225,000 gross. RRSPs allow deferral of the highest tax rates and there is no inheritance tax in Canada (unlike rates up to 50% in the UK and USA).

There is wastage in government spending (billion dollar boondoggles). There is wastage in the private sector (Air Canada, Enron, Northern Telecom etc. shareholders must be really happy about the performance of their stocks). It doesn't make it right, it just means we need to demand better accountability in all sectors.

We live in a democracy and the majority of Canadians share a set of values that is not discriminatory, treat everyone equally and are compassionate. If you feel such values are limiting your potential, the simple solution is to head south.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Jim, saying healthcare is the #1 priority and actually making this a reality are two different things. I am willing to give Martin a chance, just as I am willing to give Premier Williams of our province a chance to turn things around. We shall see.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

From my Australian asking of the same question. Good for a smile. There are many more "takes" on Canucks here. http://www.publicdebate.com.au/reaction/viewtopic.php?t=345&start=36

But this is the best so far.

"I have only visited the west coast of Canada and the USA including Hawaii. Here are my impressions. In writing my impressions I am simply answering the question posed in this thread and using my personal experience to justify it. This is not an attack against Canadians or Americans and I acknowledge both great countries have their pros and cons just like Australia does. 

Climate and Cities 

As far as the cold weather in Canada is concerned we went there at the end of the northern hemisphere summer, so I was expecting it to be a bit cool. I was surprised however to find it was stinking hot, in fact it was hotter than Australia, to make things worse I packed a lot of jumpers and warm clothes and I ended up needing t-shirts and shorts, the whole time I was there. When I arrived back in Sydney, I stepped out of the international terminal at Mascot to find it was bloody freezing here. 

I have never been to Canada or USA during the winter, but I believe that North American winters can be beautiful and it is only really freezing for a few months of the year anyway. I'm sure most of us Aussies are adaptable enough to survive there. 

Vancouver is a beautiful city and it reminded me of Sydney a bit, it was a very clean and friendly place. Los Angeles on the other hand can only be described as one of the most over-rated destinations on this planet. I don't think most Australians could really appreciate how bad the smog is until you go there. But my eyes were red, irritable and watering almost the entire time I was there. 

In fact you cannot even see the sun until about 12:30pm which is when the sun becomes hot enough to burn its way through the thick layer of smog that shrouds the city. Even the famous "Hollywood" sign is impossible to see most of the time. In general the city has a dirty, overcrowded and run-down feel about it. Rodeo Drive is really no big deal and Venice Beach is a dump filled with people desperate to draw attention to themselves to enrich their obviously unfulfilled lives. Give me Bondi beach any day. 

The United States of Obesity 

One thing that really is a concern about Americans is their poor nutrition. In LA there is a fast food place on just about every street corner, KFC, Maccas and Burger King and even a few we don't have here such as Wendy's and Jack in the Box among others. No wonder yanks are such fat bastards because they are eating so much processed food and refined carbohydrates, with no real nutritional content at all. 

I would estimate that around eight out of every ten people I saw in LA were overweight and a substantial number of them would qualify as clinically obese. If it wasn't for the silicon implants that so many women in LA have then the blokes there would probably have bigger boobs than the women, in fact I think some blokes do. 

When we went to Disneyland I was surprised to see so many people getting around in those motorised wheelchairs. At first I thought these were disabled people making their pilgrimage to Disneyland, however I quickly realised that these people were mostly just morbidly obese people who could not walk around the park. Disneyland is great by the way. 

Now while Canada definitely has some fatties too, the problem was obviously much worse in the States. 

Dining 

Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that Americans could not make a good cup of tea. Let me say from the outset that from my experience neither the Americans nor the Canadians have mastered the art of the perfect brew. As for coffee I could not find a decent cup of coffee in the US however coffee in Vancouver was marginally better. 

Also I was surprised that as a commonwealth country the Canadians don't know what a scone is! The Canadians call biscuits cookies (as do the Americans) and they call scones biscuits, how bizarre! 

I found the standard of service in restaurants in both the US and Canada to be excellent, that is where the similarities end. On the whole I found the food in Canada to be of a higher standard, possibly due to the French influence there, who knows. 

When you walk into the typical American diner and sit in a booth you will be surprised at the size, the large space between the seat and the table is designed like that so the big chubby Americans can actually fit into the booth. Many Americans would struggle to fit into booth seating here in Australia. 

The next surprise is the portion size of the meals they serve, they are just plain ridiculously huge! Their super sized cokes, steaks that are the size of the entire plate, it is not uncommon to see someone eating a plate full of mashed potato as a side dish while the main dish is on a separate plate. 

For breakfast one morning I ordered a stack of 3 pancakes, the pancakes were about 1.5cm thick and each one was the diameter of a dinner plate, I had trouble finishing them. Yet many locals were eating pancakes with maple syrup plus bacon and eggs on the same plate! 

Other little idiosyncrasies about eating in America; be careful if you are not feeling very hungry and you decide to order an entree sized meal rather than a main size. I noticed in the US that they refer to the main meal as the "entree", whereas what we would call the entree they call the starter. So if you order an entree be prepared for a ridiculously enormous meal to be placed in front of you, and let me warn you again, the size of main meals in America could sustain an entire village in Africa for one month! 

I noticed that Americans don't seem to eat bread with their meals the same way that we do, or even Canadians do. If you want bread with your meal in the States then all they seem to have is what they call "sourdough" which tastes like crap. I had a Caesar Salad in Vancouver, and one in Hawaii and discovered that what our North American cousins call a Caesar Salad is definitely not the same as our Caesar with fresh tomato, lettuce, bacon, egg, croutons and dressing. It was a crude toss of lettuce and a bit of tomato covered in what they called a Caesar dressing. 

One final note on dining, the Outback Steakhouse is NOT Australian food, it is American food with Australian sounding names. No family in Australia sits around the dinner table eating “outback burgers”. As for throwing a shrimp on the barbie (barbeque) that is bull**** too, for starters we call them prawns not shrimp, in Australia a shrimp is a short person. I do not know anyone in Australia who barbeques prawns anyway, those Paul Hogan tourism commercials that were screened throughout North America a few years back were nonsense. 

The People 

When it comes to business Americans are smart, they definitely know how to make a dollar, or several million dollars, as the case may be. The Americans are a resourceful, industrious and inventive people who I feel tend to have almost natural entrepreneurial skills. 

This is why American inventiveness has had so much impact on the world in which we live, the internet on which I am posting this message, the software that i am using to write it and the technology that powers my PC, even the light that is illuminating my room. One must stand in awe of this and give credit where it is due. 

In general most Americans seem to be nice people, although any country with a population of around 300 million or so is bound to have its fair share of morons and dickheads. Americans are somewhat loud and outgoing, they can be very opinionated on world issues without having any idea of the complexity of the issue. 

I agree with what another poster in this thread said that Americans tend to be superficially friendly. In every shop you will find an artificial smile and a "have a nice day". In some respects it was nice to be back in Sydney and go into a shop and be ignored and treated indifferently by the staff. Customer service skills might be lousy here but at least people are real. 

Americans in Hawaii are a bit more friendly and genuine than mainland Americans IMHO. As for Canadians they are more quiet and conservative, even compared to Australians and especially compared to Americans. Canadians may at first appear somewhat cold and formal but once you get to know them they are warm and genuinely lovely people. like the Americans they seem to have a good work ethic and can also be industrious people. One senses though that Canadians are conscious of the fact that they live in the shadow of their rich and powerful neighbour. 

I think some Canadians have a hang-up about this, as evidenced by the existence of this thread. I too have encountered the cutting sarcasm of a pissed off Canuck here in Australia, when on hearing her North American accent I asked which part of America she came from. 

Aussies should be careful to respect the Canadians sensibilities and phrase the question something like "Are you from Canada?" If you say this to a Canadian you may endear yourself to them, whereas if the person comes from Boston ( or elsewhere in the US) then they probably won't care anyway. 

Be warned that from early childhood Canadians are ritualistically trained in an ancient form of martial arts that is particular to Canada. It involves beating the **** out of someone using a large stick that is curved at one end, Canadians call this martial art "Ice Hockey". 

Now when it comes to the Aussie accent the antipodean traveller should be aware that both Canadians and Americans expect Australians to talk like Steve Irwin or Paul Hogan in the most outrageously broad accent and of course using lots of cliché slang (that no Australian under the age of 50 actually uses), such as “Crikey” or “Bonza mate”. If you don’t do this then North Americans will not believe you are Australian, if you actually speak in a articulate and reasonable manner they will think you are English (heaven forbid!). 

Naturally I like many Aussies tended to turn on the accent a bit at times to humour them, trust me they love it. Then you can have fun telling them stories like how you used to ride a kangaroo to school when you were a kid, or how you wrestled a crocodile on your way to work the other day. Surprisingly some Americans will actually believe this stuff, many Canadians on the other hand tend to be a bit more knowledgeable about other countries and will receive such stories with good humour and some degree of scepticism. 

If you do happen to find yourself in an Outback Steakhouse an outrageously broad accent peppered with plenty of G’days, crikeys and other stereotypical old Aussie slang will put in you in good favour with the restaurant staff. 

Canada or USA? 

In considering which of these two nations would be the fairest land in which to live, one must look beyond mere trivialities such as which one will allow me to own the most guns. Gun ownership is fine but it is a small part of life. In any case I am led to believe that Canada has a higher rate of private gun ownership than the US, yet has hardly any violence, that speaks volumes to me already. 

To me important issues are access to primary healthcare, a decent education system where kids do not have to pass through metal detectors on their way to class, where average working class kids can hope to achieve a university education. A place where the air quality and environment are clean and where public safety is important and where one is free to go about one's business without being molestered. 

These are some of the issues that I feel define "quality living" and as far as I am concerned Canada wins hands down. 

Hawaii was a place in the US that I enjoyed, the people seemed more genuinely friendly, especially the native Hawaiians (although they weren't so warm and loving to poor old Captain Cook). There is a real "aloha" spirit about Hawaii, laid back, easygoing and friendly. 

I was interested to learn that the beautiful fine sand that adorns Waikiki Beach was actually imported from Australia. Some years ago when they dredged Newcastle Harbour they shipped tons of sand to Honolulu so they could use it on their famous beaches as the natural sand there was too coarse and not as nice for the touristy image. 

You know little things like that seem to reinforce to me the artificiality of America. Its fake breasts and face lifts, steroid induced muscles, modified and processed foods, fake smiles and Have a Nice Day attitudes, censored and biased media, manufactured talent like Britney Spears, the superficiality of Hollywood, the corruption of Las Vegas. 

Not to mention this warped morality where Americans cannot hear the word "****" on TV, yet they can walk indifferently passed the homeless people on the street or watch trashy talk shows like Jerry Springer with a bunch of people from a trailer park who admit having sex with their siblings. The religious hypocrisy of televangelists who ask struggling people to send in money while they use their millions to build themselves mansions and air-conditioning for their dog kennel. 

The zealous Christians who will chastise you for smoking a cigarette or drinking a beer, because your body is a temple made in God's image, yet these same people who chastise you are morbidly obese and think nothing of downing two burgers, a tub of ice-cream and some krispy kreme donuts (what is that doing to their body?). Interestingly not many churches in the USA preach against gluttony, although just about every other sin seems to be mentioned. 

Canada on the other hand just seems more real, and down to earth. Without as much hypocrisy and bull****. 

If you are a young, hardworking and eager professional or entrepreneurial type and you want to make money, and get established in life, then the USA is definitely the place. It's capitalistic, money driven; profit oriented society encourages both opportunity and exploitation alike. But if I wanted to make it big in business or earn some good dollars for a few years then I would chose the US. 

However if I wanted to settle more permanently in another country then Canada would definitely be my preference over the USA. You just can't beat a bit of peace, order and good government! 

Well this concludes my post that became an essay, if you made it this far thank you for taking the time to read my thoughts."


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

Great post! An interesting and witty take on Canucks and Americans. The writer was spot-on in most respects. Sometimes you have to go farther afield in order to get a refreshing perspective on an old debate.


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## Darrin (Dec 12, 2003)

I'm a North Carolinian that would love to live in Canada at least for a while. I like the people and the "vibe" in Canada. I guess it's just so different from my experience. I visit every chance I get and it feels just like the states only cleaner. Just kiddin. It is cleaner but it's very different from the small rural town I live in.


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## sheamusj (Sep 21, 2006)

MacDoc said:


> As you likely realize I'm not that fond of the elephant to the south. I would be curious to see how ehMacians respond to this question
> 
> *"Given similar levels of income, housing and employment opportunity would you choose to live in the US or in Canada.
> 
> ...


Canada for sure. Why? The reasons are many... to name a few... [1] I love Canada! [2] Universal health care [3] In general, superior education [4] There is less polarization and greater sense of inclusion [5] Far fewer guns therefore far greater sense of security regarding the life and well-being of my darling wife, our children and grandchildren, families, friends and colleagues.

Over 40+ years I have met, worked with and shared laughter and tears with many Americans... I love the cultural variation existing in different parts of the USA. I love their ability to make a fast decision, their attitude seems to be "Great if it works and change it fast if it does not work". I love their great sense of patriotism. I love their great musical contributions, the blues, jazz and rock and roll in particular. I love their great energy and creativity. I love their "can do" spirit. I love that the USA is a great neighbour, not perfect, yet still, a great neighbour.


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## 20DDan (May 2, 2005)

Darrin said:


> I'm a North Carolinian that would love to live in Canada at least for a while. I like the people and the "vibe" in Canada. I guess it's just so different from my experience. I visit every chance I get and it feels just like the states only cleaner. Just kiddin. It is cleaner but it's very different from the small rural town I live in.



I've got a friend who lives in NC. I've always wanted to go down there and see how life is there... she talks about riding horses, open country air... It makes me jelous! It'd be a good spot to have a summer home or something like that. I do enjoy Canada except driving in the winter... As for American culture... it's always fascinated me! Both in a good and bad way


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## 20DDan (May 2, 2005)

Ah crap Im an idiot... I accidently clicked on CANADA instead of USA! I'm looking to be an Apple Tech... definitely USA! But Im happy with what I've got... sometimes I do feel like the people in Nunavut... separated from reality...


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## ZipperZap (Sep 24, 2006)

*Kidding, right?*

http://www.camzone.com/index.php?cam=scripps

(Distances and temperatures translated to California lingo!)

Average temp is 76ºF 

Mountains 40 miles east & another range 40 miles to the north east - snow there if you're so inclined! 

Desert 60 miles east. 

Pacific Ocean within a few miles west - great for (ocean) fishing and diving! 

Disneyland 90 minutes north - Universal Studios about 2 1/2 hours north..

No sleet/ice storms.

Old Mexico about 30 minutes south.

Huge zoo - actually 2.

Sea World (1)

No snow ... well, unless you don't count about 3 minutes worth 
back in the mid-60's, sometime or other. Didn't 'stick' long 
enough to 'count!'

Colorado River about 2 1/2 hours to the east - great year 'round water skiing!

Many lakes around for lake fishing. 

No lightening storms.

California girls all over the place! 

Only 9 inches of rain a year! 

No flooding.

Broadband galore!   

'Snow Birds' by the thousands from 'way up north' during the 'winter'! 

There are colleges and universities all over the place.

No biting bugs, such as mosquitoes, biting flies, etc.

I dunno ... I guess I could go on ... but why?


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## gastonbuffet (Sep 23, 2004)

to see McNutt's second response gave me a misty eye. I miss the dear old sob.

I choose San Francisco and then Montreal, Boston, Vancouver(fourth because of the weather) in that order. But for now, Toronto will have to suffice. At least is in Canada!!


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

i'd rather live in california than ontario.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

.


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## gastonbuffet (Sep 23, 2004)

MasterBlaster said:


> I generally find Americans much more fun, positive, open and friendly than Canadians.



yet you can't get in the U.S ??? (as you said). So not much fun for you there then.....don't know how much friendly or positive they are...being closed and all .
So basically, you came to Canada as a means to get to the US?. Newsflash: better economy ........not. better climate..........uhmmm maybe, although that time that rained airplanes scared the hell out of me.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

.


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

sheamusj said:


> Canada for sure. Why? The reasons are many... to name a few... [1] I love Canada! [2] Universal health care [3] In general, superior education [4] There is less polarization and greater sense of inclusion [5] Far fewer guns therefore far greater sense of security regarding the life and well-being of my darling wife, our children and grandchildren, families, friends and colleagues.
> 
> Over 40+ years I have met, worked with and shared laughter and tears with many Americans... I love the cultural variation existing in different parts of the USA. I love their ability to make a fast decision, their attitude seems to be "Great if it works and change it fast if it does not work". I love their great sense of patriotism. I love their great musical contributions, the blues, jazz and rock and roll in particular. I love their great energy and creativity. I love their "can do" spirit. I love that the USA is a great neighbour, not perfect, yet still, a great neighbour.


I have to disagree with you an a few of those issues shaemus.

First healthcare? Yes I have to agree that we have universal healthcare for everyone in the country. That is great, however because it is government funded we do not have the equipment and the doctors too have a decent system. The nurses really couldn't care which is a result of the long wait lines. The hospitals are over crowded because of abuse of the free healthcare system.My son almost died because of the apathy that is running rampant in our healthcare system. In Canada I can't even sue for malpractice. Every doctor we saw treated his infection as a virus. We knew what was wrong with him, yet we can't go see a specialist without going to see our Family Doctor.

And the school system is over crowded with children in class rooms at record highs. What kind of education can our children get in the public school system. This is why we are considering private school for our children.


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

It fascinates me that so many still buy into the myth of the better life down south. Many of my family members have, too. Not a single one of them has stayed. That speaks volumes to me.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

MaxPower said:


> I have to disagree with you an a few of those issues shaemus.
> 
> First healthcare? Yes I have to agree that we have universal healthcare for everyone in the country. That is great, however because it is government funded we do not have the equipment and the doctors too have a decent system. The nurses really couldn't care which is a result of the long wait lines. The hospitals are over crowded because of abuse of the free healthcare system.My son almost died because of the apathy that is running rampant in our healthcare system. In Canada I can't even sue for malpractice. Every doctor we saw treated his infection as a virus. We knew what was wrong with him, yet we can't go see a specialist without going to see our Family Doctor.
> 
> And the school system is over crowded with children in class rooms at record highs. What kind of education can our children get in the public school system. This is why we are considering private school for our children.


an overwhelming majority of Americans are one medical problem away from bankruptcy

if you really wanted to go see a specialist you could have gone to the U.S.

there are problems with Canada's healthcare system
many of which are quietly being ignored by those that would like to see private health care come back, just like the current president of the CMA

it appears that money, not health, is the motivating factor for many in the healthcare professions

it's high time our gov't started promoting much healthier lifestyles, especially for our children, with the re-introduction of daily physical education and sports

we need to think like the cigarette companies - get 'em while they're young

health club memberships should be tax deductible
smoking appears to be dwindling
fast foods with high concentrations of trans fats should be banned and companies should NOT be allowed to substitute cocoa butter/oil

chemicals in home products, especially man made carpeting should be severely restricted

if we can get food companies to list their products in two languages, we sure as hell can get them to start giving us better food


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

.


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## MissGulch (Jul 20, 2005)

I find this a fascinating "what do they think of us?" thread. I will do an uncharacteristically American thing and shaddup and keep reading. 

Carry on.


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## zoziw (Jul 7, 2006)

Canada is my home and this is where I would choose to stay.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

zoziw said:


> Canada is my home and this is where I would choose to stay.


I agree with this. 

I'm also confused about the difficulty if one lives in Canada but would choose the U.S. It's relatively easy to move there with limited barriers (assuming one speaks English). It's a fine country and generally accepting of Canadians and offers lots of great jobs, particularly for professionals and highly educated individuals. They are, overall, harder working, so be careful about that "9 to 5" job that pays $30k more than here. On the other hand, the health care and take-home pay can be vastly superior there too. It depends on your situation but for most, you do have the choice (unless your spouse made it for you  ).


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I would move to the U.S. in a heartbeat if other circumstances didn't prevent it.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Macfury said:


> I would move to the U.S. in a heartbeat if other circumstances didn't prevent it.


I'm curious, what "circumstances" would these be?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

ArtistSeries said:


> I'm curious, what "circumstances" would these be?


1) Moving to another country is definitely something both parents need to agree on.
2) Sole caregiver contact for ailing and elderly relative.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

MF, yes, those circumstances make it difficult.


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> an overwhelming majority of Americans are one medical problem away from bankruptcy
> 
> if you really wanted to go see a specialist you could have gone to the U.S.
> 
> ...


I agree with most of what you said. If we were not able to see a specialist here in decent time, we were going to go to Buffalo to see one.

The thing with US hospitals is that they are a business and they treat it as such. If you are not getting good customer service at one hospital or clinic, then you are going to go next door where you will. That is the way it should be here.

Instead I go to my GP's office and wait and wait only to be herded in to spend (if I'm lucky) five minutes with him. How is that quality health care?


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## gastonbuffet (Sep 23, 2004)

gastonbuffet said:


> better climate..........uhmmm maybe, although that time that rained airplanes scared the hell out of me.


and the hits just keep on coming!

I love the smell of crashed and burned plane in the morning, feels like........manhattan


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## markceltic (Jun 4, 2005)

gastonbuffet said:


> and the hits just keep on coming!
> 
> I love the smell of crashed and burned plane in the morning, feels like........manhattan


Looks like we have a Robert Duvall fan, even if that was a lame attempt at humour. With all the perceived attributes of the American lifestyle, I think I'll stay here anyway. Although if I was approaching this question if I was an immigrant coming to North America it would probably be the States.


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## jicon (Jan 12, 2005)

I work for a company that does a lot of it's business in the U.S., and gives me some opportunity to travel the four corners of the US and Canada.

I'd much rather live in the U.S. I think. California/Arizona/Nevada are wonderful this time of year. Certainly not taxed to the degree we get it here, and certainly much more developed transportation system than Canada.

I can't stand the stereotypical image of a family driving in a yellow hummer, going out for dinner in shorts and a day old ratty t-shirt hanging over their bellies, then running off to the McMansion in the burbs; and I wish the medical costs were significantly cheaper, but ignorance is bliss... I can buy my drugs cheaper on the internet... at least that's what my inbox keeps telling me.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

jicon said:


> I'd much rather live in the U.S. I think. California/Arizona/Nevada are wonderful this time of year. Certainly not taxed to the degree we get it here, and certainly much more developed transportation system than Canada.


I've lived and worked in the States for a long time.
Taxes are much lower in the US but there are certain costs that are much more expensive. Medical care has been pointed out but what I found hard was quality in daily items - there seemed to be a bigger gap in price compared to Canada when it came to quality food and clothing. 
In the US some food items are cheap but moving up a notch in quality seemed more expensive than in Canada.
You can find plenty of cheap clothing but looking for midline clothing, well it was easier to come back to Canada.
I could find less expensive vin de table, but anything more refined was more expensive. 
I liked the West coast over the East coast because it seemed "cleaner" - less population density, more respect for the environment. I love New York city and would not hesitate to move to the Carolinas. 

You have the pros/cons to each and I think that circumstances, in my case, where I would prefer to reside at a given time.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Of course, the beauty of a poll like this is that we could now claim: 

"More than one-third of CanadianEhMaccers would leave Canada if they could."


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