# Do you have external speakers hooked up to your Mac?



## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Do you have external speakers hooked up to your Mac? If so, which ones? (Please provide linky to speaker website, photos if possible!?)


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Speakers currently hooked up to my home machine (White iMac G5) are Altec Lansing MX5021's that are now discontinued. 










Anyone have a set of consumer computer 5.1 speakers hooked up to their Mac?


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## cutra (Nov 24, 2009)

*Here are my speakers*

Hey, 
I have the Logitech ones that also have a 4 usb hub incorporated. 
Here is a picture of them. They fit right underneath my 30" monitor.
And they were very inexpensive.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Set of JBL Creatures. Not the greatest but they provide background noise while I'm editing. Head & shoulders above what they replaced, some generic 3 speaker thing...


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## duosonic (Jan 7, 2004)

I run an Akai receiver/amplifier with a set of custom built Phillips stereo speakers (woofer-tweeter-crossover) - great sound. Very helpful when doing audio editing, or for blasting sound through the house.


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

I've had a set of JBL Creatures hooked up to my G5 Dualie since I got it in 2003; they're passable when needed, but I rarely use them. Most of my casual listening & work in Logic Express involves a good set of headphones.

Whenever I get my next machine, whether a 27" iMac or perhaps a Mac Pro, I'll continue using headphones most of the time, but I will add some basic monitor speakers for occasional use, likely something like these.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

But of course... I run a full fledged hi-fi home theatre set up in my office. No TV just my monitors (the living room has a second set up).

I run the digital optical out of the Mac Pro to a Yamaha receiver and have a 5.1 speaker set up. NanoSats by Mirage.

This is a sweet little setup. It rivals it's big brother in the living room for sound quality (another Yamaha/Mirage set up, just a different line of Mirage speakers and a titanium receiver).


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

The speakers built in to the old eMacs were a good deal better than many of the newer models, also I tend not to crank up the volume too much so I don't suffer any dancing display effects.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

Audio Engine A2 speakers - love 'em. Some of the best set of speakers I've ever owned. Link: Audioengine - Upgrade your music. - $199+ tax.


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## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

I said no...but like screature I have my theater system in the same room as my office desk so for music i run it though that system. The onboard speakers are fine for Youtube etc.


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

I have the speaker bar that Dell sells as an option to their monitors hooked up to my mini. I don't fill a room but they serve the purpose of playing video clips and iTunes when I want to listen to some tunes while I surf.


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

JBL Creature speaker


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## digitddog (Jul 5, 2006)

If we're only discussing a wired connection, no. But I have my stereo and a cheap set of powered logitech speakers hooked up via an Airport Express. Not sure if you wanted to consider these in your poll, so I didn't vote.


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2009)

A pair of Genelec 8020a's and a Samson Resolv 120a subwoofer


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## Cris Rock (Mar 17, 2008)

*Logitech X-540*

http://www.bmbtech.com.au/shop/shop/images/Logitech X-540 Speakers.jpg


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Cris Rock said:


> http://www.bmbtech.com.au/shop/shop/images/Logitech X-540 Speakers.jpg


Hey Cris, what kind of connection do those speakers have on them? Do they plug into Toslink? Did it come with cable?


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## rpw1 (Sep 30, 2009)

I run a set of M-Audio BX5a "near field" monitors with my iMac. The reason for this is I need high quality audio for editing purposes, therefore I use these monitors rather than speakers.

M-AUDIO - Studiophile BX5a - 70 Watt Bi-Amplified Studio Reference Monitors


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## 850 (Apr 24, 2008)

Of course! The speakers that i have are:

Bose Companion 3 Multimedia Powered Speaker System - Computer Speakers - Computer Sound Systems - Bose Multimedia Speakers

I have been using them for 3 years now and they're still tickin


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## Aurora (Sep 25, 2001)

I have the Harman Kardon candlesticks with the mushroom woofer. The've been going strong since my 867 G4 iMac.


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

Cris Rock said:


> http://www.bmbtech.com.au/shop/shop/images/Logitech X-540 Speakers.jpg


Have you considered changing your user ID to Cris Rocks..... 

I kind of like the Apple Pro speakers with the iSub on my Lampshade though I have Altec Lansing ACS-295's in a few spots around the house. Also the slightly older Altec lansings which the model number escapes me a the moment.

The White G3 iMac I use for tunes in my office sounds pretty good with the built in speakers and iSub.

Lately though I have just been wearing my Sony NUDE Turbo ear buds.


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## mkolesa (Jul 22, 2008)

Lars said:


> Audio Engine A2 speakers - love 'em. Some of the best set of speakers I've ever owned. Link: Audioengine - Upgrade your music. - $199+ tax.


+1 on the audioengine a2's! i have a hi-fi background with a crazy hand-built all tube stereo system in the living room, and after listening to lots of what's out there decided the audioengines had the most natural sound for the least amount of money. having said that, they don't sound good sitting on a desk-they either need to be tipped up at you (audioengine sells a holder for that purpose) or put on stands (and i've never been able to find a nice stand that was reasonably priced)...


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## TheBat (Feb 11, 2005)

With 3 Airport Express units, I'm hooked up to lots of speakers....

Full home theatre setup in basement. Mini-stereos elsewhere which run ceiling speakers. Yep, I have a whole house system. With my iPod Touch as a remote, it equivalent to a Sonos, but at a much lower cost.


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## dtaylor (Apr 4, 2005)

Aurora said:


> I have the Harman Kardon candlesticks with the mushroom woofer. The've been going strong since my 867 G4 iMac.


Likewise. My H/K Soundsticks (USB) have followed me through a number of machines. They sound great and take up very little space.


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## jtmac (Apr 23, 2003)

Totem Mites with a Marantz receiver.
Connected by toslink.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> Harman Kardon's SoundSticks II three-piece speaker system produces high-quality stereo sound for Music, MP3's, movies and gaming experiences.
> SoundSticks II encourages consumers to step out of the ordinary speaker world and offers sound in an original and unique package. The system, described as curvy, sleek and sexy, provides consumers with sound that is loud and clear.
> SoundSticks II employs a new computer-optimized multi-band parametric equalization and Harman's unique "capacitance touch" control buttons on the right satellite allow for direct access to volume control.


 :love2::love2:


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## doglips (Feb 28, 2001)

JBL



> Two-piece speaker system
> The JBL® Duet™ multimedia system provides smooth and accurate sound for any portable music player or computer. With its incredibly easy setup and use, the Duet system is a sophisticated approach to achieving great two-channel sound. It uses JBL Tangential Strain Relief ™ transducer technology to deliver extra bass and lower distortion as a result of controlled linear excursion of the speaker. The neodymium magnet creates more power and sensitivity. The Duet system also utilizes proprietary JBL Adverse Pressure Gradient ™ port design, which greatly enhances the bass performance.


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## DDKD726 (Feb 21, 2005)

Logitech Z10's with touch LCD display:Z-10 Interactive 2.0 Speaker System

I love these things!


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

Bluesky Mediadesk with 5.1 expansion kit in the studio

Klipsch Synergy 7.1 with Pioneer Elite SC-27 hooked up to the mini in the living room



















my setup is identical to this pic, except i only have 1 set of the B2 bookshelves that i use as rear surrounds..for the side surrounds i have the S2 model, which is designed to be wall mounted and which have tweeters that fire fore and aft rather than directly at the listener..

i also currently only have 1 Sub 10, but just saw them go on sale so i think my santa present to myself is going to be another one of those...


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## Gerbill (Jul 1, 2003)

ottawaman said:


> jbl creature speaker


iPod Product Guide: JBL Creature II | Macworld

+1


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

My setup hasn't changed much since I took this pic:










Except I've swapped out the external DVD burner for a scanner for a project.

My speakers are just a basic Logitech unit w/subwoofer (not pictured) that look like this:










I don't recommend them, they're poorly shielded and aren't by any stretch of the imagination good speakers. They are decent at best and were a) cheap and b) black to match the setup.


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## Jason H (Feb 1, 2004)

Nope. I am surprised at how loud the built in speakers in the new MBP's are! Loud, but still crappy.

When I do need a little bit more I use one of these, 










A fostex 6301b. and yes, I only use one!


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## mkolesa (Jul 22, 2008)

Jason H said:


> Nope. I am surprised at how loud the built in speakers in the new MBP's are! Loud, but still crappy.
> 
> When I do need a little bit more I use one of these,
> 
> ...


amen to that! stereo is definitely a silly thing for boom boxes, laptops, clock radios, etc!


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

mkolesa said:


> amen to that! stereo is definitely a silly thing laptops...


That's just nuts!!! If you have speakers with enough physical separation, stereo is always a good thing.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Logitech X-230
(Euro link has a bigger picture than the USA link, Also I think these are discontinued in Canada)










Cheap but good, I have my midi keyboard plugged into them, They are really loud.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Good set for those that want decent but loud. Think all ours are gone....had quite a few.


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## iSteve (Jun 21, 2005)

Wanted a clean digital connection so went with Edirol MA-15D Studio Monitors - Roland U.S. - MA-15D: Digital Stereo Micro Monitors and for an extra bass kick, added a Polk Audio PSW10" Subwoofer Polk Audio - PSW Series Explosive Performance of Movies and Music

Photos:
Edirol MA-15D:









Polk Audio PSW10 Subwoofer:


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## ScanMan (Sep 11, 2007)

I've had these for a couple of years and they're fine for desktop sound. 

What provides the biggest bang for the buck, and I know a few of you use it, is SRS iWow for iTunes – night and day, on a weenie system like this.


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## Jason H (Feb 1, 2004)

mkolesa said:


> amen to that! stereo is definitely a silly thing for boom boxes, laptops, clock radios, etc!


When the choice is between ONE good speaker, or two, 3, 5, 7 or 15.75 crappy ones the answer is clear


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## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

I have my Mac Pro hooked up to a Teac EXCD-3 micro system, which has decent enough sound (I never blast it - the speakers sit on my desk - they're the same size as the A2s). I also stream music to an Airport Express in the living/family room, with a pair of Boston Acoustic VR950 towers, powered by a Sony STR-DE835 5.1 receiver. Works great - until someone turns the microwave on...


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

SRS iWow wanted to charge me (who had just bought the thing for Leopard) in order to get a version that worked with Snow Leopard. Thus endeth my association with that company.


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## ScanMan (Sep 11, 2007)

chas_m said:


> SRS iWow wanted to charge me (who had just bought the thing for Leopard) in order to get a version that worked with Snow Leopard. Thus endeth my association with that company.


Yeah, sucks. I'm running the older version with 10.5.8 on my machine, Mrs. ScanMan has the latest for SL on her new mini. Gotta tell you, chief, the new iWow version has a nicely upgraded interface.


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

ScanMan said:


> I've had these for a couple of years and they're fine for desktop sound.
> 
> What provides the biggest bang for the buck, and I know a few of you use it, is SRS iWow for iTunes – night and day, on a weenie system like this.


I have the same set... I discovered something when I first bought them though... if you hack some speaker cables with RCA ends, you can connect bookshelf speakers into the speaker inputs on the sub and get a MUCH better sound out of the set up. You get the best of both worlds, the decent thump from the sub, and the better output from real speakers (not those rinky-dink little things).

I have a set of Infinity SL bookshelves hooked into mine.

Try it!


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## ScanMan (Sep 11, 2007)

kloan said:


> I have the same set... I discovered something when I first bought them though... if you hack some speaker cables with RCA ends, you can connect bookshelf speakers into the speaker inputs on the sub and get a MUCH better sound out of the set up. You get the best of both worlds, the decent thump from the sub, and the better output from real speakers (not those rinky-dink little things).


Midrange? I don't need no stinkin' midrange!

Seriously though, what you're talking about is something I've often considered. Glad to hear someone's done it. The sub is very nice. I've thought of pairing it with Audio Engines like Lars has. Desk space is at a premium, but I don't think those suckers are toooo big. Got a model # on those Infinitys?


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## Donut9 (Aug 14, 2009)

I run my audi inputs and outputs through a Presonus Firebox, and I have two Yorkville YSM1Ps hooked up as reference monitors/speakers. Sounds amazing. Great for mixing. Nice flat response.


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## imobile (Oct 6, 2007)

*Sure do....*



ehMax said:


> Do you have external speakers hooked up to your Mac? If so, which ones? (Please provide linky to speaker website, photos if possible!?)



Have Bose 301's in the 'office/den' directly connected to the iMac and some Carver Amazing Loud speakers hooked up thru stereo via Airport Express! Thus can play music from iTunes via iMac, MBP and old reliable iBook!


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

Energy Connoisseur CF-30's Bi-Amped and an Energy S10.3 Sub connected to a Pioneer VSX-919-HK.


























In the new year, the CF-30's are getting replaced with CF-70's and the 30's will be put in the rear.


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## old dawg (Dec 15, 2002)

*I love my music.*

I have some old, but very lovely stereo equipment hooked up to my Mac Pro. A Classe CAP-80 stereo amp with a pair of B&W CM1/CM2 speakers, great for detailed sound quality. I wish I could take advantage of the toslink connection on the Mac. The standard speaker connectors seem very touchy.


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## Eric0 (Nov 22, 2007)

+1 for Audioengines

I've got the A5s hooked up to a HeadRoom DAC.


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## Jason H (Feb 1, 2004)

Vexel said:


> Energy Connoisseur CF-30's Bi-Amped and an Energy S10.3 Sub connected to a Pioneer VSX-919-HK.


The VSX-919-HK doesnt support bi amping. I'm confused.


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## fellfromtree (May 18, 2005)

No. If I really need something extra, I can hook up the Tivoli Pal.


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

Jason H said:


> The VSX-919-HK doesnt support bi amping. I'm confused.


It supports internal bi-amping if you're not going to use the surround back speakers.


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## Jason H (Feb 1, 2004)

Vexel said:


> It supports internal bi-amping if you're not going to use the surround back speakers.


I was confused, because I looked up the receiver, and Pioneer said nothing about biamping on their (poorly made) website. Thats a really neat feature!


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

ScanMan said:


> Midrange? I don't need no stinkin' midrange!
> 
> Seriously though, what you're talking about is something I've often considered. Glad to hear someone's done it. The sub is very nice. I've thought of pairing it with Audio Engines like Lars has. Desk space is at a premium, but I don't think those suckers are toooo big. Got a model # on those Infinitys?


hmm... might be on the back, i just looked at the front. they're nothing incredibly special, but they sound reasonable. im more particularly fussy with the output from my macbook pro. so far im not all that impressed with the quality.. im constantly adjusting the EQ in iTunes.

i inherited an Outlaw audio amp wth a USB DAC.. i think im gonna hook that up to improve the sound, and skip the sub's amp.


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## MidiStick (Oct 24, 2008)

*FH007's*

I have Ferguson Hill's FH-007's. I love them. I will soon buy their Subwoofer to match.
Here is a link. Here are some pics.
Hi-Fi Systems | Horn Speakers | Ferguson Hill | FH007


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

Jason H said:


> I was confused, because I looked up the receiver, and Pioneer said nothing about biamping on their (poorly made) website. Thats a really neat feature!


Indeed the combination of the Pioneer with the Energy Connoisseur series is a great one. I've actually picked up 2 CB-20's since I posted last. 

Now the 30's aren't bi-amped and I'm running in 7.1. 

Tested a copy of Transformers in DTS-HD. :0

Phenominal.


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## mc3251 (Sep 28, 2007)

I have altec VS4121 2.1, which is an adequate S$99 setup. I have 5.1, all Energy in my home theatre room.


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

I forgot to mention, I have an old RCA all in one vinyl/8 track cabinet connected by Airport Express in the family room. 

I'm considering ripping out all of the internals of the unit and replacing them with modern electronics. Although, I don't have enough free time these days.


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

I'd also like to hear what more folks are using. I'm looking for a little set for my parents to connect to their iMac. Primarily for my father to listen to his Country while he's tipping a few back. 

I was considering another set of Logitech Z-5500's, but I think they might be a little overkill for their uses.


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## benmossm (Mar 10, 2008)

These have lasted me the past 3 years, excellent sound for a 2.1 system.


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## mc3251 (Sep 28, 2007)

See my post or three back, on the Altecs. They are actually very decent for the money.


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## sonspot (Mar 7, 2007)

i have a old logitech, am thinking its around 10yr old now lol


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## winjer (Oct 30, 2007)

Altec Lansing MX5021's here as well. Have been using these for at least 5 years. Best $200 I ever spent.


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

M-Audio Studiophile AV40's.


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

Those look fantastic, GordGuide. 

I've been considering MAudio for a while, and they certainly look like they may fit the bill for my parents iMac.


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

They are pretty awesome, actually. Real MDF cabinets well braced and quite dead, self-powered, front volume/power pot, and you can hook up two inputs (3 if you use the Phone plug connectors, RCAs, and mini plug). They are all active (no input switching). The speaker connections are spring terminals, so you can just use a suitable length of speaker cable from left to right speaker; no fancy connectors to deal with and no need to hide a ball of wire somewhere if they're too long.

I have the sat radio and Mac hooked up and just power the Sirius receiver down if I don't want to use it, and Mute the Mini if I do. Front panel Headphone out mutes the speakers.

I like the look; they don't show fingerprints, they're unobtrusive and don't call attention to themselves, as no speaker should. The blue led power indicator around the power/volume pot is reasonably muted and won't keep you awake at night, yet you can easily find it in a dark room, and it's the only control you need to use.

They have other models as well, these are middle in the range but more than adequate. The footprint is a bit larger than many computer speakers, but not unmanageable. 9" tall x 6" wide and you need 10" or so of depth to make room for connections at the back. The bottom end is good enough that you won't miss a sub, and has good midbass definition. Mids are smooth and top end is quite sweet and not over-emphasized or zippy.

They image quite well if you keep in mind "the rules": front of speaker forward of monitor face and not too far apart; each side about 6~8" from the edge of a 20" monitor is no problem, which is a bit wider than you normally would use with a desktop sat/sub system. Would work good with iMacs. Toe them in a bit.

A moderate, open stand would be ideal, perhaps 4~8" off the desk surface, but I don't currently do that and don't mind the sound at all. They come with a pad for the bottom to minimize movement, which works well enough that I don't bother with the blu-tack I would normally use for computer speakers.

There is a bass boost switch in the back but I don't find it necessary. However it does have a fairly reasonable profile and doesn't mask mids much, unlike some so it's quite usable if you feel you need it.

They replaced a pair of Klipsch Promedia GMX-A 2.1's when the sub died ... the older versions, now discontinued. They were quite good and had a smaller footprint, but the M-Audio AV40's do sound a bit better.

The GMX's imaged really well, but had less headroom, didn't play quite as loud without getting distressed or exhibiting some compression, and were a bit thinner in the mids and a bit brighter in the highs (typical of all Klipsch speakers; they usually measure well enough but if you check the phase response, the top end leads the mids by a few milliseconds, thus the bright presentation). Even though they fit easier on a desk, you needed to leave a lot of room around them or they got closed in, so the footprint in practical terms isn't really any different.


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## Silv (Mar 28, 2008)

Mini is hooked up to a Pioneer Elite SC-05 receiver driving a home theater setup:
- Monitor Audio sub
- B&W DM604s2 Mains
- B&W LCR60 Centre
- DefTech ProCinema200 surrounds

My MBP in the office is hooked up to Klipsch ProMedia 4.1's I turned into 2.1's with a pair of side cutters

Sorry, no pictures..


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

gordguide said:


> ..The GMX's imaged really well, but had less headroom, didn't play quite as loud without getting distressed or exhibiting some compression, and were a bit thinner in the mids and a bit brighter in the highs (typical of all Klipsch speakers; they usually measure well enough but if you check the phase response, the top end leads the mids by a few milliseconds, thus the bright presentation)...


But how do they *sound*?....


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## Chipper (Aug 31, 2004)

I just picked up a pair of Bose Companion 2 multimedia speakers on sale at Best Buy yesterday (a Boxing Week special at $99 regularly $150). They sound wonderful to me and wil suit my needs.

Bose Companion 2 Multimedia Powered Speaker System - Computer Speakers - Computer Sound Systems - Bose Multimedia Speakers


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## Cliffy (Apr 18, 2005)

I have the Harman/Kardon Champagne speakers in beige hooked up to my desktop. They have been with me a long time and they still sound great.


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## chriswtburke (Aug 18, 2009)

good to see lots of M-Audio monitors on there!! I've got the M-Audio Studio Pro speakers.. and they run through a Line 6 TonePort UX8 and I love them both.. the studio pros were free.. a local music shop had me come in for a day and teach their staff how to use Garage Band (as they had a nice 24" iMac set up with the keystation 88 and a Fast Track pro.. as pay, they gave me the monitors.. if I had a choice though, I would have gone bigger.. maybe the BX8 or CX8 clearly DRASTICALLY different monitors.. but, the studio pros have been working great.. and I actually do most of my mixing with headphones.. then reference it with the monitors afterwards..


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## Amiga2000HD (Jan 23, 2007)

rpw1 said:


> I run a set of M-Audio BX5a "near field" monitors with my iMac. The reason for this is I need high quality audio for editing purposes, therefore I use these monitors rather than speakers.
> 
> M-AUDIO - Studiophile BX5a - 70 Watt Bi-Amplified Studio Reference Monitors


Uh-oh. Do you still have your receipt/warranty information for those? You'll want to hold on to that for your own protection. Going by personal experience* and the anecdotal reports on the M-Audio forums as well as other forums, M-Audio speakers in general, not just BX5as, seem to have reliability issues.

*In once facility I was working in, BX5a speakers kept dieing! Each time one would die out of warranty, it'd be thrown out and the good kept in the spare pool to form a working pair the next time an out of warranty BX5a would croak. I was asked to investigate an audio quality problem in one place and the left BX5a was blaring with 120Hz power supply hum from failed filter capacitors and the other one had a blown woofer. Right into the garbage. Barely over a year old and just out of warranty. Yeah, I could've fixed the one with the power supply hum but it wasn't worth the cost of my time being spent on that vs. other projects I was needed on.

On another occasion when I was building a setup that included a pair of BX5a speakers, I found out that the built in power amplifiers have a DC offset somewhere, so that when they get switched off and the DC is suddenly removed, it creates a hell of a nasty transient that violently kicks the woofer's cone to the end of its travel, making a loud pop. Every BX5a I've encountered does this, so it wasn't a one off problem with that pair of speakers and I'm convinced the shut off transient is responsible for a large number of the blown woofers I've encountered with them. M-Audio, on the forums on their website, recommends that their speakers be shut off when they're not in use. I disagree with this and recommend leaving them on because it avoids exposing the BX5a's drivers to the risk of being damaged by the transient that occurs when they're switched off.

From the response of the volume control on the back of the BX5as I've had to deal with, I suspect it's a linear pot instead of a proper, audio-use log tapering pot. You use log tapering pots in audio because the human ear's sensitivity to sound pressure levels isn't linear, it's logarithmic (also why sound levels are measured in decibels - the dB's a logarithmic scale).

Sorry for the rant but I've been burned and seen too many people burned by M-Audio speakers including a fair number of BX5a specifically and as an electronics engineer, I'm disappointed in their design and build quality.


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## Amiga2000HD (Jan 23, 2007)

Ok, it's confession time. I read the thread front to back and replied to the first M-Audio post I came across without realizing that a fair number of people later on. I hope nobody feels offended over my remarks about M-Audio speakers, which were based on my experience dealing with them in professional environments where they've caused multiple lost time incidents that I've had to deal with. This is an inconvenience to people who can't work when their audio monitoring's down, it's inconvenient when equipment has to be found or purchased (and budgeted for) and substituted whenever an M-Audio speaker dies, and it's frustrating for everybody involved. In several years of experience, I have yet to encounter any of these problems with Edirol, KRK, Genelec, or various combinations of external power amplifiers and passive nearfield monitor speakers.

Ok, enough about that...what do I have set up at home?

My bedroom: I have a cable brought out so that I can hook up my laptop to the stereo there easily. When I do that, the 13" MacBook Pro's connected to a Scott 299D integrated amplifier driving a pair of Kef Concerto speakers. This is a nice sounding setup. I went through the amplifier and thoroughly overhauled it about nine years ago, but I've put a lot of hours on it and the power tubes are started to show it noticeably in the fall so I'll be replacing the four 7591 tubes soon along with the 5AR4 rectifier tube that's been supplying the juice to them all this time.

Living Room: My roommate's Paradigm speakers (set up in a 7.1 configuration) are set up there. My roommate just replaced an old Pioneer surround sound receiver with a brand new 9040txh from a Boxing Day sale. My old G5 Power Mac's hooked up to the TV through a DVI to HDMI cable and I brought the audio out to the new receiver using an optical SP/DIF cable (was previously using a 1/8" stereo to RCA adaptor cable with the old receiver since it was analogue only). The Pioneer 9040txh performance is excellent, far better than the old Pioneer, with movies where the surround sound processing is active but it sounds dull and lifeless for two channel music listening from multiple sources including the G5, with anemic bass.

I honestly thought I had - and checked everything over for a phasing problem on my hands when I heard it playing two channel music in its stereo mode the first time. The new Pioneer's performance at playing music isn't as good as the old one, and is really disappointing considering what the full purchase sticker price would have been, Boxing Day sale aside. If I can't adjust away the deficiencies with the Pioneer's two channel sound through the settings in the various menus, I might take the left and right pre-outs of this and use the pair of Dynaco Mk4s I've been sitting on after overhauling them and set up a speaker switch if the Pioneer's power amps are the culprit. If it's the Pioneer's preamp at fault, I'll have to set up a dedicated two channel chain with a separate preamp feeding the Dynacos, feeding a speaker switch. If I do any of that, the roommate's going to kill me for making things more complicated.


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

I used to have speakers connected to my imac but the speakers on the new imacs have improved so I removed them...
here is what I used to use.


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

" ... I hope nobody feels offended over my remarks about M-Audio speakers, which were based on my experience ..."

Certainly not; sound quality can be assessed relatively easily; reliability takes time and any user experience is welcome. My AV-40's are about 18 months old and have performed flawlessly in that time, but from your description they don't sound like they are suffering under the same design or manufacturing issues as the BX5a's, which may or may not have been corrected during the production period. Certainly China production is plagued by occasional quality issues; counterfeit and sub-quality capacitors is a known issue that has plagued many products in the past.

Time will tell, of course, but recent reports suggest that the acquisition of M-Audio by Avid (who placed M-Audio under Digidesign management) about 4 years ago resulted in a marked improvement in product reliability once the legacy products were retired and replaced with new models. In the case of the BX5a, it was re-engineered in January 2008.

I think the AV40's are a fine desktop loudspeaker for computer use; and at around $150/pair they are not terribly expensive (the campus computer store at my alma matter sells them to alumni at $119/pair).

I don't expect Pro-level robustness, but I don't send live music or mixes through them either. I'm not so sure I would trust most computer-interface speakers for use in a work-a-day production environment, with cubic dollars on the line when experiencing downtime, but I realize that many do and that M-Audio/Berringer/Edirol do market them as such.

In the end, when you consider that a quality true pro-level alternative will start at perhaps $2K (e.g. Westlake Lc5.75 + a 200W/ch amplifier) and can easily be more, even a unit that lasts for a year might still be a bargain. 90+ % of the best home loudspeakers I'm familiar with would not handle the demands of live/studio production use without driver failures, at a minimum.

Loudspeakers are one area where the products available today are often drastically better than the equivalents of yesterday, especially at the low/mid range, and without question you get far more for a dollar today than ever in the past. When you can buy a $200 self-powered speaker that outperforms a $600 best-of-class unpowered unit of 25 years ago ($1,083.39 in today's dollars via the Bank of Canada inflation calculator) it's a major improvement and everyone benefits.

Along with those cost reductions comes a price: a stunning lack of build quality and robustness, and by no means am I singling out loudspeakers here ... it's evident in virtually every item on the store shelf.

" ... i have a old logitech, am thinking its around 10yr old now lol ..."

Good for you. Don't fix what isn't broken.

We are all used to it now, and consumers have learned to accept a default level of quality that is far lower than in the past. I would have a hard time thinking of a product available today that would meet the reliability standard expected by my parents generation; and if we do meet such a unit, the price asked sends many into apoplectic shock, even though it may only be twice of it's competitors.

The refrigerator that my grandfather gave my parents as a wedding present ran continuously for more than 50 years before it was replaced, still working, by a new unit, and that was considered only slightly remarkable; it was assumed it would last 30 years like everyone else's fridge did.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speaker System


As mentioned in my signature, I have Z-5500's hooked up to my Mac Pro. Love'em.


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## SirAdrian (Aug 31, 2009)

Glad to see some love for Klipsch. :clap:

I'm not on a Mac, but I used my Klispch ProMedia 2.1s for a few years, and then upgraded to the 5.1 Ultras w/ RSX-4 front satellites and enjoyed them thoroughly for a year or two. The amp in the subwoofer has since crapped out and I have downgraded to some ancient pair of GNT speakers which do not do any justice.

Recently bough the Cinema 8 set though and am looking forward to setting that up in the living room... I'll probably stick to headphones in the office for a while.


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## Jason H (Feb 1, 2004)

gordguide said:


> Loudspeakers are one area where the products available today are often drastically better than the equivalents of yesterday, especially at the low/mid range, and without question you get far more for a dollar today than ever in the past. When you can buy a $200 self-powered speaker that outperforms a $600 best-of-class unpowered unit of 25 years ago ($1,083.39 in today's dollars via the Bank of Canada inflation calculator) it's a major improvement and everyone benefits.


I think I'd like to make an inflation calculator for amplifier power... 

200 watts in 1973 is like 1000 watts in 2010!!


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## Amiga2000HD (Jan 23, 2007)

Jason H said:


> I think I'd like to make an inflation calculator for amplifier power...
> 
> 200 watts in 1973 is like 1000 watts in 2010!!


I seriously need to get off my rear end and start committing the design for the 5,000 Watt LeaseBreakerNeighbourPisserOffer monoblock power amplifier that requires its own dedicated 240 volt circuit to paper...and then start construction!


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## Jason H (Feb 1, 2004)

Amiga2000HD said:


> I seriously need to get off my rear end and start committing the design for the 5,000 Watt LeaseBreakerNeighbourPisserOffer monoblock power amplifier that requires its own dedicated 240 volt circuit to paper...and then start construction!


I've got a 30 watt (x2) Rotel amplifier that can easily p*ss off the neighbours 

I metered it once and had it at about 108db solid (at full power, 3' away from the speaker). I could have gone louder with a bigger amplifier! But I never listen that loud!


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## Amiga2000HD (Jan 23, 2007)

It would take a 300 watt amplifier to double the volume output of your system, and that's a fairly affordable power level if you buy used. I don't know how well your speakers or your neighbours would like the increase in power output 

My parents had a 20 watt per channel Rotel amplifier and it wasy good until they bought a gigantic pair of B & W speakers that were tough to drive, and the left channel's output transistors failed shorted. Thankfully the protection fuse blew so it didn't apply DC to the speaker long enough to blow it. They bought a 50 watt amplifier to replace to Rotel, to avoid the risk of blowing it again on the same speakers. I'd have bought a 100 watt amplifier or larger to give more headroom when driving those speakers at the same volume, but they've been using the same 50 watt amplifier years now with no problems so I guess the 3.98 dB of gain they got going from 20 to 50 watts was enough...


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## Jason H (Feb 1, 2004)

Amiga2000HD said:


> It would take a 300 watt amplifier to double the volume output of your system, and that's a fairly affordable power level if you buy used. I don't know how well your speakers or your neighbours would like the increase in power output
> 
> My parents had a 20 watt per channel Rotel amplifier and it wasy good until they bought a gigantic pair of B & W speakers that were tough to drive, and the left channel's output transistors failed shorted. Thankfully the protection fuse blew so it didn't apply DC to the speaker long enough to blow it. They bought a 50 watt amplifier to replace to Rotel, to avoid the risk of blowing it again on the same speakers. I'd have bought a 100 watt amplifier or larger to give more headroom when driving those speakers at the same volume, but they've been using the same 50 watt amplifier years now with no problems so I guess the 3.98 dB of gain they got going from 20 to 50 watts was enough...


Ha! My neighbours would be alright with it. They had something in their apartment that was louder than my rig. I stuck my SPL meter in the hallway, just out my door, and it was 84db. They listened to their 'beats' all of saturday. Weekends were a free for all in the building. It was a nice setup!

My grandparents have a technics system they bought in 1993. Its gorgeous! Nice big solid amplifier and its used for listening to AM radio and background music for dinner parties! The system is so old school even the remote control is made in Japan :love2:


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

" ... 200 watts in 1973 is like 1000 watts in 2010!! ..."

I'm pretty sure 200 watts is still 200 watts. It's interesting, though, that you picked 1973, since that was during a time when manufacturers pulled power ratings out of a hat, and many were wildly misleading. It was not until 1974 that the US Federal Trade Commission introduced the "Power Rule" specifying how amplifier power could be advertised.

Prior to 1974, some used the voluntary EIA (Electronic Industry Association) standard which required one channel driven at 1 Khz at 1% THD. Others used burst tones of short duration, and distortion figures from 10% to full saturated clipping (100%). Amplifiers would be tested at 8 ohms, and then using a formula, not a test, that number would be extrapolated to 2 ohms, with a simple multiplication by 4. And so on.

I remember seeing amps in the Sears catalog with cheezy BSR changers selling for $79.95 and claiming 300 watts of power when I was a kid, and I listened to them at friends' houses, wondering why they crapped out when another friend's dad's amp claimed 10 watts per channel and blew it out of the water.

Although it's difficult to correlate these inflated figures with what the FTC method would produce, it was not unknown to discover the worst offenders claims were 10 or more times higher than the power they could deliver via the 1974 FTC Amplifier Rule.

An example, however, of a FTC rule amplifier using the typical methods, would go something like this:

Given unit A: an amplifier that can deliver 10 watts/ch, both channels driven, from 20~20Khz at 1% THD into 8 ohms.

First we test with just one channel. It manages to do 14 watts.
Then, we test with just an easy 1 Khz signal; now it does 17 watts.
Not enough. Okay, lets move the distortion level to 10% instead of 1%. Now we get 21 watts.
This is the end of the testing.

The rest is just math:
We measured RMS values, let's use Peak values (RMS = .707 x peak). Now we have 29.7 watts. We'll round that up to 30.
We tested into 8 ohms, let's just convert to 2 ohms. That's 30 x 4 = 120 watts. Now we're talking.
Remember, that was just one channel. Add em up.
"Our amp puts out 240 watts!"
Call the ad agency.

The FTC rule requires a specified warm-up period (60 mins at 1/3 power followed by 5 at full power) before testing, and defined the claims advertisers could make. Probably the most valuable rule was one that stated the FTC method power must be the one most prominently displayed in advertising ... you couldn't claim your wild power and then put the FTC number in the fine print.

The warm-up period eliminated specifying power into 2-ohm values by even most well made amplifiers, since the warmup would generally mean the amp would simply go into protection mode and shut down before the 2-ohm test completed. When cold, it may have been able to complete the test.

The 1974 standard required that all "associated channels" of an amplifier must be driven to full rated power simultaneously during power-measurement tests, but Home Theatre manufacturers found a loophole whereby they could define which channels are "associated".

The modern 5 and 7 channel amplifiers sold today broadly speaking cannot deliver full power to all channels at the same time, but might be able to deliver decent power to two or three of the 5 or 7.

Home Theater amp makers took that as an opportunity to rate their amps differently than stereo units. They would test the amps in 2-channel sets; ie the front two alone, the rear two alone, and if a 7.1 amp, the next two rears alone, and finally the centre channel by itself. Then add it all up for an overall power rating.

Currently there is no FTC standard for multichannel amps. The FTC has been proposing one for more than a decade (since 1997), but the industry has stalled the process, and it's still in the comments stage. In 2002, the Consumer Electronics Association proposed it's own standard (CEA-490-A, "Test Methods of Measurement for Audio Amplifiers").

That got the FTC off their back for a while, until the FTC noticed that most manufacturers were not even using that standard proposed by, essentially, themselves. So, currently, the FTC is again threatening to make multichannel amp testing standards a law.

However, it's important to remember that it won't change much ... don't expect a standard demanding all 5 or 7 channels driven simultaneously, with the warmup, etc. Manufacturers have convinced the FTC that this would force them to re-rate amplifiers they are already selling with more optimistic ratings. Expect something similar to the "2-1-2" method.

It should also be noted that a few manufacturers do rate their multichannel amps by the full 1974 FTC method now, with all channels driven simultaneously (eg Bryston, Classe, etc).

The wildly inflated power claims never actually went away ... any "portable device" is exempt; that includes TVs if they have a handle somewhere, car stereos, blasters, iPod music systems, etc. Makers of these devices can still basically claim whatever they want.


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## Jason H (Feb 1, 2004)

Gord, I dont think I've ever seen a more interesting poster on any forum anywhere. I end up reading everything you post, and enjoying it too.

My comment was inspired by a friend of mine buying a thousand watt home theatre the other week. I cant possibly think of how that power rating was found, and the entire package with the speakers weighs 50lbs, including speakers, a sub and it plays dvds! 

Blu-ray technology with 4 tallboy speakers HT-BD1255 - Home Theatre Systems - Home Theatre | SAMSUNG


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

That particular unit is an integrated system with speakers, so it's not covered by the FTC rule.

Samsung does provide some (incomplete) detailed specifications, though (from the owner's manual at the site you linked to).
The loudspeakers are rated at 3 ohms, so the power rating would also be at 3 ohms.
They do not specify the frequency or distortion of the power rating.
They use a 2-1-2 test method, plus the sub separately.
They rate the front and rear at 165W x 2 each, and the centre channel at 170W. The Sub is rated at 170W (total: 660W + 170W + 170W = 1000 watts @ 3 ohms).

The entire unit is rated for 85 Watts at 120V power consumption. We must not confuse power consumption in watts with amplifier output in watts, as they are different things.

However, you can't put out more power than the power supply can deliver, so it is related.

From the size and shape of the receiver, it could only be using a Class D amplifier. Anything else would be too large to fit, and run too hot, with anything close to those power ratings.

Even with a very efficient Class D amplifier stage (perhaps 90% efficient) it's unlikely to deliver anywhere close to 1000 Watts, even at 3 ohms. You need about 54 watts at 120V to power a Class D amp FTC rated at 50W x 2 @ 8 ohms; or about 120W x 2 @ 3 ohms, and there's the blu-ray player and some other stuff to power as well; if we give them 21 watts there's the whole shebang.

That would make sense; actually ... 165 watts at 1 Khz and perhaps 3% THD @ 3 ohms might be available provided you tested only two channels at once. That there is no room for other channels to run at anything close to rated power at the same time is evident by the fact that when only one channel is driven (centre or sub) the power only goes up by 5 watts.

The unit is possibly capable of delivering 20 watts @ 3 ohms to all 6 channels simultaneously at 20~20Khz with reasonable distortion (1% or less).

This is in line with the FTC standard for units that are not covered by the 1974 FTC Amplifier Rule. You sometimes see these mentioned in Home Theatre specifications; mass-market brand HT receivers (eg Pioneer, etc) often cite the DIN standard, for example. The FTC 16 CFR Part 432 is supposed to apply to everything.

DIN EN 61305-3 (Germany): would mean each individual channel is tested alone with no warmup, and the power rating must be sustainable for 10 minutes.
FTC 16 CFR Part 432 (US) says all channels "in the same frequency range" should be capable of running at 1/8 power simultaneously for 5 minutes; except subwoofer channels, which are tested alone.

In practical terms, you would expect the sub to have the highest power demand, followed by the fronts, then the centre, and finally the rears. In use, you might be able to throw 50 watts at the sub, 15 each to the fronts, 10 to the centre and a few to the rears at the same time. It will play decently loud but will run out of steam quickly if you push it. It should be fine for TV use but probably not so hot as a music system.


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## Chas3 (Jul 14, 2007)

My Pioneer SX-535 with Pioneer Atom V6's are hooked up to my pc. The setup also includes a Rega P1. Vintage audio ftw.


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## Triceratops (Dec 14, 2009)

gerbill said:


> ipod product guide: Jbl creature ii | macworld
> 
> +1


+1


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

Awesome info, GordGuide. Always a pleasure reading your information as it's easy for me to understand. 

I do have a little question for you, if you have a spare moment. 

My Pioneer VSX-919AH-K receiver supports internal bi-amping from the surround back outputs if the unit isn't being used for 7.1 surround. 

Music comes first for me, with theater a distant second. I'm wondering if this amp set up for bi-amping is providing any significant benefit for music quality on my Energy CF-30 loudspeakers?

919 power rating:

Power 120 x 7 Channels
THD: 1 kHz w/0.05% THD @ 8 ohm

I think the system sounds great, but I'm wondering if connecting the CF-30's to a dedicated 2 channel amp for music would yeild me much benefit over the bi-amping provided by the 919?

Thanks in advance!


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

Forgot to mention, all music is ripped from CD/Vinyl to Apple Lossless, or played directly from an Ion Profile USB Turntable.

The Mac Mini is connected directly through Mini Toslink.


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

The 919 is rated with 2-channels driven, 20~20Khz into 8 ohms @ 0.05% THD at 90 w/ch. With the DIN method (1 channel alone, 1 Khz, 8 ohms, 0.05% THD) it's 120 watts. Also, Pioneer rates this as a 5-channel amplifier, despite it's having 7 channels available.

A test report- pdf warning 216 Kb (just the first one that actually had measured the amp, rather than read the press release back to me) showed 97 watts FTC method and 128 DIN method. When they tried to run it multichannel (5 channels driven) it went into protection mode and began reducing the rail voltage, which would result in a reduction of power across all channels.

Home Theatre magazine does test HT amps with 5 channels driven ... with an 8-ohm load, 5 channels driven, no frequency specified, they got 34.1 watts per channel from the unit at 0.1% THD and 36.7 watts/ch at 1.0% THD.

The amp tested quiet, had a good wideband frequency response, and decent distortion characteristics. The only eyebrow raiser was channel separation, which was merely adequate.

Based on that, I don't think it's a good candidate for bi-amping. However, you have everything you need to try it, except perhaps two speaker cables which won't cost much. You could try it and see.

In fact, bi-amping usually goes that way with any gear, unless it's simply a matter of throwing Kilowatts around like in a concert setting. Every combination doesn't respond predictably for hifi applications. It's a test it and see thing.

Sometimes you lose the continuity and the result isn't an improvement, and sometimes easing the burden on the HF amplifier cleans up the sound. You can't predict the outcome.

I like these Pioneers and I just picked up an 819 for a friend literally two days ago, but I'm not under any illusions that they are going to blow away every other unit out there. You get a lot for your $300~500 but there is no magic bullet that will make a $500 receiver a giant killer. Every manufacturer has access to the same parts at the same prices and occasionally find they use the same factories. 

He will be using it as a 2-channel amp, but wants the iPod interface, and the video switching/processing. He has plenty of vinyl and a good Denon AC motor Direct Drive table, and an unused preamp to use for a phono stage. He has no intention of adding surround channels, but has a pair of above-average efficiency speakers. In his case, it's a perfectly appropriate unit for the job.

But you have to realize they need to compete with their peers; you are not going to get magic for $300 to $500. However, it should work fine with your Energy speakers in 2ch modes for music listening, and also do it's HT job when called upon.

Well, I think I've hijacked the Mayor's Poll enough for one day, so I'm going to leave it at that.


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## AquaAngel (Feb 16, 2007)

i Have this little guy hooked up for now on my G5 dual 2.5.









looking to get this one in the next few days









That is if i can find it. They are hard to get :heybaby:


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## Sugith (Jan 6, 2010)

I have my iMac connected to a Peachtree Decco amp via a Wireworld USB cable. The Decco has an excellent DAC and is a solid "audiophile" component that feeds Era D4 speakers. Makes even my old MP3's ripped before I discovered external hard drives and Apple Lossless sing.

This link takes you to both components:

Signal Path International - Era Speakers & Peachtree Audio - Home


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

Thanks, GordGuide. I appreciate the advice.


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## Vanish (Jan 9, 2010)

if you want cheap and effective... go Altec Lansing.. this is what i have... its simply amazing....VS4221


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

Sugith said:


> I have my iMac connected to a Peachtree Decco amp via a Wireworld USB cable. The Decco has an excellent DAC and is a solid "audiophile" component that feeds Era D4 speakers. Makes even my old MP3's ripped before I discovered external hard drives and Apple Lossless sing.
> 
> This link takes you to both components:
> 
> Signal Path International - Era Speakers & Peachtree Audio - Home


That gear is gorgeous! 

It would be absolutely perfect for driving some decent speakers linked to an AP Express through toslink. 

Thanks for the links!


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## Sugith (Jan 6, 2010)

It sounds even more gorgeous. Really made me get cracking at ripping all my CD's to Apple Lossless because the combo and convenience can't be beat, IMHO.

It's a terrific office system, especially as the speakers are quite compact but give out incredible sound, including astonishing bass given their size. And for late night as it's a home office, there's a built in and excellent headphone amp.


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