# OK so what exactly is a server?



## macuserforlife (Oct 30, 2004)

Just like the title says, someone asked me today what a server does and I was totally at a loss. I've heard and even spoken about servers for years but I couldn't define one.

So, what exactly is a server, and more specifically, how does it differ from mass storage? 

Why would I buy an XServe instead of a Powermac? 

Why would I buy an XServe instead of a large external drive array?

Thanks, in advance, for enlightening me 

Bruce


.


----------



## minnes (Aug 15, 2001)

a server is a computer that dishes out data, files, applications , mail etc.
Its just a computer set up at the central hub of a network to send and receive data between all the computers connected to it.
And servers connect to other servers through high speed data transmission cables to provide us with what we call the internet, or as an itranet in a business or school.
You dont need an XServe, get a regular Mac for your work.


----------



## DoNotPokeTheScreen (Jun 9, 2005)

I've been wondering about that, too. I believe my girlfriend's computer science notes explained about it, but I forgot. 

So... why buy an Xserve over PowerMac?


----------



## macuserforlife (Oct 30, 2004)

Hey minnes,

Thanks for the reply. Sorry for the confusion, I already have a Dual 2GHz PM and had no intention of buying an XServe, I just wanted to use it as a basis for comparison. 

You mentioned that the server acts as a central hub of a network to distribute data, can you explain to me the difference between a server in this capacity and just plain old mass storage.

Thanks again,

Bruce


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Think of you with two arms juggling 4 or 5 balls in the air. 








That's your individual computer dealing with your work and perhaps a couple of other machines.

The server software adds a whole bunch of arms to the juggling act - 90% of the computer processing to dedicated to the juggling and handles multiple types of communication as well and keeping the activity balanced amongst the different tasks.










As for the X-serve - it's a convenient form factor for rack mounting where multiple servers may be linked and it has a variety of swappable drive configurations.
Light on stuff like video/optical - heavy on connectivity and drive configurations and designed around multiple stream simultaneous communications by many users often over both web and LAN and designed for fail safe operation.

You can indeed run X serve on a regular tower and X itself can be used for "serving" but tends to have some limits once you get past certain connection levels and the administrator tools are not present..or not easily accessed as they are on X-serve software.


----------



## macuserforlife (Oct 30, 2004)

MacDoc said:


> The server software adds a whole bunch of arms to the juggling act - 90% of the computer processing to dedicated to the juggling and handles multiple types of communication as well and keeping the activity balanced amongst the different tasks.


So, if I understand correctly, rather than being a storage device, a server is more or less additional processor power to speed up tasks. Assumedly this is not all that noticable when connected to one computer but, shared over a network, would probably speed up each and every individual computer by relieving some of the processor overheads.


----------



## kps (May 4, 2003)

No. It's not the hardware...it's the software that makes a server a server.

A server can serve a specific thing...like records in a database, like HTML pages(Apache), like email (sendmail, postfix), like print jobs...or it handles multiple connections and multiple users across a network to access "mass storage" or applications or other servers like those mentioned (web, email, etc.)

Like Macdoc said, your regular OS is limited in this capability and may be crippled in term of how many *simultaneous* users can be connected to your machine. The server version of OS X can have unlimited simultaneous users connected.


----------



## minnes (Aug 15, 2001)

not only do servers juggle data,
They do many other tasks
such as
act as firewalls
send and receive email and block spam
they could host and process server side scripts and programs, like the ones that run this forum, or scripts that use PHP, ASP, java, cgi etc
they could render video, audio or pictures in a company that needs that done.

with small networks, they may not have a server, but may work directly in a 
Peer to peer network


----------



## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

MUFL, I suggest you take a look at the Client/Server Survival Guide in Amazon and do a 'search inside'. There are quite dew definitions from p. 15 onwards. Here is a
UK link


----------



## Script Kiddie (Jan 30, 2003)

Nice octopus MacDoc! 

Storage is just a bunch of disks with (hopefully) lighning fast network access.

A server is (generally) a computer which is designed for highest relibility (dual power supplies, dual NIC cards) and typically no "desktop" features like nice video card or dvd burner say, and designed to fit into a rack. Notice how the XServe is like a "pizza" box. Its probably loud too. It is designed to just grind away on CPU expensive tasks and be 100% reliable. 


Why would I buy an XServe instead of a large external drive array?
---> You would probably get both if you needed your XServe to access 1TB of data, say.


----------



## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

Here's a definition: http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/S/server.htm


* (ser´ver) (n.) A computer or device on a network that manages network resources. For example, a file server is a computer and storage device dedicated to storing files. Any user on the network can store files on the server. A print server is a computer that manages one or more printers, and a network server is a computer that manages network traffic. A database server is a computer system that processes database queries. 

Servers are often dedicated, meaning that they perform no other tasks besides their server tasks. On multiprocessing operating systems, however, a single computer can execute several programs at once. A server in this case could refer to the program that is managing resources rather than the entire computer. *

If you ask me, it's the "sharing" part that is important. A server generally shares resources between multiple client computers.


----------



## capitalK (Oct 21, 2003)

A server could be one of a hundred different things.

For instance I have a B&W G3 that acts as a headless server (doesn't have a monitor). It uses the regular OS X 10.3 software and I have it set up to launch iPhoto and iTunes with sharing on.

So it's hooked up to my wireless router, and when I come home I can open up my Powerbook and connect to all my music, or all my backed up photos. I can mount the hard drives from the B&W on my Powerbook's desktop and move files around. 

Is it running a server operating system? No. Is it a slim rackmounted unit? No. Is it a server? Yes.


----------



## MacME (Mar 15, 2005)

my definition … a computer system dedicated to serve services!  be it file server, mail server, streaming server, web server, data server ... etc


----------



## capitalK (Oct 21, 2003)

MacME said:


> my definition … a computer system dedicated to serve services!  be it file server, mail server, streaming server, web server, data server ... etc


Great definition. Short and to the point!


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Except is does not answer what the orginal question was about.
You've only added a class of objects not an explanation.
"File server" is no more informative than "server" as to the actual functioning of the device.

Car or blue car is just about equally meaningless to someone who doesn't know what a car is, does or how it does it.


----------



## MacME (Mar 15, 2005)

sure it does ... 
"computer system" ... description of the object
"serves services" ... what it does

the rest of what i gave are examples, and not the definition.

for example:
file server: provides the service of sharing and storing files
mail server: provides the service to facilitate sending and receiving e-mail
web server: provides the service of publishing web content

dunno, CarbonKen liked my definition!


----------



## Atroz (Aug 7, 2005)

macuserforlife said:


> Just like the title says, someone asked me today what a server does and I was totally at a loss. I've heard and even spoken about servers for years but I couldn't define one.
> 
> So, what exactly is a server, and more specifically, how does it differ from mass storage?
> 
> .


LAN Servers have changed greatly over the years. If you go back about 10-15 years, you'll be looking at 486's running Novell as a file and print server. Hardware wise, these were generally higher end systems, running SCSI Hard drives instead of ST506, perhaps having a RAID controller, and dual power supplies. There would also have been some monitoring software. Generally speaking servers were the big systems, more storage, more RAM, etc. 

Today servers run the same software as desktop systems, but tweaked. It may be Solaris, Win 2003 or OS X. Others have already mentioned things like allowing more connections. Some of the other important things are reliabilty, e.g. Fault tolerant systems such as CPU's that can fail and drop out without taking the full system down. 99.999% availabilty (5 minutes out of service a year). Systems with multiple powersupplies (i.e. taking power from 2 different power grids in a datacenter), RAID 5 for storage to external disk packs, potentially with terabytes of storage, Processors that can handle a lot of memory (64 bit processors showed up on Servers first), very fast system buses (e.g. Sun's Crossbar), multiple CPU's (e.g. 8-72). If you look at high end servers like Sun's, you'll find things like logical partitioning of the hardware so that the box can be divided up in to multiple separate operating systems, reconfigurable on the fly (e.g. one system not getting enough CPU time can take CPU's from 'spare' or other running systems.), running software that can shift from server to server without interruption (e.g. failover all processing to a remote datacenter if one has a catastrophic failure (e.g. burned down). 

Apple's Xserver is basically a high-end desktop in a different form. It competes with similar machines from DELL. They're less than what SUN considers to be an entry level server. Compare it to something like the Sun Fire E25K: http://www.sun.com/servers/highend/sunfire_e25k/specifications.jsp Of course you are also looking at something that has a price tag with 7+ digits (not counting cents) vs something that sells for a few grand. However, both are servers.

BTW, you asked how a server differs from mass storage. A server USES mass storage, it's not mass storage. It may provide mass storage to other users as a file server. However, these days file serving is a really simple thing. Small ones can be based on a few hundred dollars worth of hardware.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I do NOW MacMe. 



> file server: provides the service of *sharing and storing files*
> mail server: provides the service to facilitate *sending and receiving e-mail*
> web server: provides the service of *publishing web content*


with one small caveat.....*can do all at the same time over a variety of communication interfaces*

YOU are used to the lingo, I am, CK is.......questioner is NOT. I'm sure they understand better now.


----------



## DANdeMAN (Oct 20, 2006)

Hello everyone, this is my first post and I'm a MacAddict... 

I have an oportunity to buy one of those for $1000 Xserve DP 2.0 
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/xserve/stats/xserve_g5_2.0_dp_node.html

Now; is it easily moded to become a "regular" desktop computer and is it worth it?


----------



## SkyHook (Jan 23, 2001)

>


----------



## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

DANdeMAN said:


> Hello everyone, this is my first post and I'm a MacAddict...
> 
> I have an oportunity to buy one of those for $1000 Xserve DP 2.0
> http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/xserve/stats/xserve_g5_2.0_dp_node.html
> ...


I don't think so, you need a new desktop case, and I'm not sure the motherboard would fit into a desktop case. You have to get rid of the noisy cooling system and replace that with something quieter.


----------



## sheamusj (Sep 21, 2006)

MacDoc said:


> Think of you with two arms juggling 4 or 5 balls in the air.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wonderful explanation and the visual presentation is awesome! :clap: :clap: :clap:


----------



## sheamusj (Sep 21, 2006)

Once again the ehmac community steps into the breach to provide exceptionally usefull knowledge along with practical experience and insights with respect to the definition of "server", its functions and purposes!

Bloody GREAT!! :clap: :clap: :clap: 

Questions: 

Could a person (like this ancient hot so technically knowledgeable fellow) purchase, setup and use a Mac server to host a website/blog, especially with respect to high-demand? 

If so, how would one handle redundancy? Buy a second Mac server and have it act as a mirror?

Or, is it better to go for outcourced suppliers?


----------



## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

sheamusj said:


> Once again the ehmac community steps into the breach to provide exceptionally usefull knowledge along with practical experience and insights with respect to the definition of "server", its functions and purposes!
> 
> Bloody GREAT!! :clap: :clap: :clap:
> 
> ...


Hi Sheamus,

It would all depend on what you wanted to use the server for. As CapitalK mentioned, he uses an older Mac to offer his network files and music, I've done that myself in the past and you don't need any special software/server package for that. It's basically built into any operating system that you choose.

What I like to imagine is that:

If your server needs are home based, for a small LAN, with a few computers.. this can be done easily with a basic small setup. Generally, a dedicated consumer machine. Much like any other one that you would have in your home. Providing files, firewall, internet access, music, email and a host of other things is easy for a budget machine.

However,

If your needs are more coorporate, with hundreds of users on your network signing into it to get those files, emails etc.. you'll want to look into a professional server setup. This kind of access is generally too much for a consumer machine to handle.

If you think about it, you can find examples even in a professional environment where they use the Mac Mini as a web server. However, these sites are probably not getting the hits that lets say "YouTube" is getting. Therefore, the task is handled by the Mac Mini generally well. In fact, I know many people who host their sites from their "consumer" Macs and they work very well, however, if the time came that their site was really busy, they'd have to switch to a machine that is much more suited for the job.

Now, back to the original question. What would you like to do with your server? How many people do you figure will be accessing it? What kind of high demand are we talking?

I'm sure some of us here could help you find your answer.


----------



## sheamusj (Sep 21, 2006)

Vexel said:


> Hi Sheamus,
> 
> It would all depend on what you wanted to use the server for. As CapitalK mentioned, he uses an older Mac to offer his network files and music, I've done that myself in the past and you don't need any special software/server package for that. It's basically built into any operating system that you choose.
> 
> ...


Hi Vexel,

I have no questions at this time regarding Mac server capabilities for handling inhouse needs. 

Rather, could a Mac server handle a website/blog getting 1000 hits an hour? Or, is it better to go with outsourced services.

Also, I created a new thread this morning with questions regarding domain registration and choosing the right services and right company to provide those services. I would sure appreciate you addressing those questions is a post within that thread.

On a personal note... It's been about a month or so now since I discovered and joined the ehmac community, and as an ancient (increasingly fit) guy, I am astounded by how much I've learned in such a short time from you and all of the other great ehmac contributors. If fact, every day now I become more excited by how much I will be able to learn over the next year... It takes my breath away!


----------



## SkyHook (Jan 23, 2001)

>


----------



## sheamusj (Sep 21, 2006)

*Welcome to the ehmac Community*



DANdeMAN said:


> Hello everyone, this is my first post and I'm a MacAddict...
> 
> I have an oportunity to buy one of those for $1000 Xserve DP 2.0
> http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/xserve/stats/xserve_g5_2.0_dp_node.html
> ...


A pleasure meeting you! :clap:


----------



## sheamusj (Sep 21, 2006)

SkyHook said:


> Easily, but the economy of scale is what drove the ISP business. You may find it cheaper to rent a service somewhere centrally located because they already have the bandwidth, hardware, and uptime, to divide and conquer.
> 
> But we all want to do it ourselves don't we? With that kind of demand I'd probably try it at home too, but only if the pipe is cheap enough, and I have a place to block out the noise of computer 24x7, like administer from an adjacent room and monitor.
> 
> ...


Skyhook, terrific contributions... Thank you!

All of your points are helpful to my understanding, however in particular, your mention of noise 24/7 was very useful, especially as I was thinking about the possibility of setting up one server in my home... [1] I didn't think about the noise associated with 1000 hits an hour 24/7 [2] I didn't realize that there would be a lot of noise... I wonder "more noise than my iMac produces?" [3] I didn't realize there was a lot of heat generated... How much heat is generated by a server?


----------



## DANdeMAN (Oct 20, 2006)

sheamusj said:


> A pleasure meeting you! :clap:


Thanks you....

My question was not worded right so i will rephrase it.  

Can I install a video card (dual monitor), optical drive (intern or extern), keybord and OS X.x.x (regular not server edition) and use this baby as a regular Mac?

According to everymac.com, I can install a video card and "One external hot-pluggable 3.5" drive bay (shipped populated)."


Here is a pic of the internal :


----------



## lcsim (Apr 16, 2005)

The original (as in not Intel) Xserve G5 (or the clustered node as pictured) will support a PCI (not AGP or PCIe) video card (like the old ATI Rage or ATI Radeon). The cluster node model does not come with any optical drive, only way to hook an optical drive is via Firewire 400/800 or USB 2.0 on the server. As with loading using OS X client, that I am not sure - the server version of Tiger comes with additional Server Administrator and Hardware monitoring tool that I am not sure present in the client version of the OS (or at least not enabled by default).

The noise ... Oh my .. the noise and heat.. Not sure if one can stand it running beside the desk! You are better off getting a used Power Mac G5 for running casual network services, much cooler and quiet


----------



## DANdeMAN (Oct 20, 2006)

lcsim said:


> The original (as in not Intel) Xserve G5 (or the clustered node as pictured) will support a PCI (not AGP or PCIe) video card (like the old ATI Rage or ATI Radeon). The cluster node model does not come with any optical drive, only way to hook an optical drive is via Firewire 400/800 or USB 2.0 on the server. As with loading using OS X client, that I am not sure - the server version of Tiger comes with additional Server Administrator and Hardware monitoring tool that I am not sure present in the client version of the OS (or at least not enabled by default).


Thanks for the info lcsim.
That will bring me to my last question : Can I install (and run) regular Software (PS, Flash etc...) on the server edition of OSX? :heybaby:


----------



## lcsim (Apr 16, 2005)

Well.. Most probably you can  However, the video card supported by the server itself is not actually a performer in terms of use for editing software such as PS. Like most server operating system, the default software configuration is most probably favoring background processes instead of foreground ones. I can certainly understand that $1000 is a good buy for a Xserve Cluster Node but it all depends on what you plan to do with it. You may also want to consider that parts for Xserve are more expensive and difficult to come compare with a desktop, unless it is already under Applecare. Applecare for Xserve runs at about $1000 which is a lot more than a desktop.


----------



## DANdeMAN (Oct 20, 2006)

Well looks like I'm going to pass on the Xserve node....to much down variables (even for the $$)  

thanks to all


----------

