# 40% illiteracy rate in Canada?



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

TheStar.com | GTA | Education ministers tackle 40% illiteracy rate

Shameful. Either our educational system isn't capable of teaching others properly, we don't feel like putting in the effort to actually learn English, or a little bit of both.


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

Coles notes please.


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## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

Does this include immigrants that can't be bothered to learn either of our two languages?


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## MacDaddy (Jul 16, 2001)

John Clay said:


> Does this include immigrants that can't be bothered to learn either of our two languages?


Does it also include people who think TXTing is a language? I think thats the biggest problem with kids.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

From "Education Matters: Insights on Education, Learning and Training in Canada" February 2008


The issue of Statistics Canada's free online publication, Education Matters: Insights on Education, Learning and Training in Canada, contains an interesting article.

"Literacy skills of Canadians across the ages: Fewer low achievers, fewer high achievers," summarizes the key findings of a recent report that investigated the distribution of literacy skills in the Canadian-born population and how those skills are generated. One of the key findings in this report is that literacy levels have improved at the lower level of the literacy distribution. At the same time, there is evidence that younger Canadians have lower levels of literacy than older Canadians had, at the same age and level of education. This was particularly true for more highly educated individuals.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Yes, not knowing English or French does not help one's literacy abilities, especially when the test is in one of those two languages. As well, "text-speak" is not helpful when the literacy assessments test for spelling and grammatical usage.

Still, the whole issue of what causes illiteracy is complex.


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## jamesB (Jan 28, 2007)

This snippet from " John Cleese's Letter to America"
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_Using the same twenty seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you know" _
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is more often then not the norm, pretty much everywhere today.
Even then, todays spoken word is still better then the trash a lot try to pass off as written text. 

jb.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

As one who has written for many long years, I was always taught to write using language and vocabulary skills that could be understood by a grade eight reader's level.

I fear that level should be lowered to grade six or less for today's writers, if their readers are to fully comprehend their message.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

1. John Cleese didn't write that letter.

2. This figure probably includes many remote villages where literacy is a secondary skill that is not terribly important in day-to-day living. It's still unacceptably high.


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

I hope this means more funding for literacy programs. 

I've been an adult literacy tutor for about a year and a half now... I love doing it, but it can be very frustrating. Kind of amazing that anyone reads and writes so easily when you consider how much goes into learning it.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Good for you, Sonal. I volunteer with an ABE Level I program here in St.John's. These are adults who read from about a grade one instructional level to just under a grade seven instructional level. Finding materials on a readability level that coincides with the instructional level of many of these learners is difficult. Still, my role is assessing these learners and providing their literacy volunteers with strategies and activities that are guided by these assessments. I enjoy it when I sit with the learners for an hour or so and demonstrate a particular strategy to the tutor.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

What constitutes illiteracy and how is it gauged? What is the threshold which determines whether a person is literate or illiterate? Forty percent seems awfully high, even with the large influx of non native english speakers into the country.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Welcome to [email protected] | [email protected] 

kps, this is not an easy question to answer. In a way, even with 4 university degrees, I am illiterate in that I can look at a page from a 10th grade math textbook and not have a clue as to what to do on the page. Or, put me in a grade two French Immersion classroom and watch me get frustrated. 

Check out the website I provided for some answers to your fine questions.


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## jamesB (Jan 28, 2007)

chas_m said:


> 1. John Cleese didn't write that letter.
> .


I think most anyone who has read the article is aware of that, I was pointing out the snippet of text from the article which *is and still is* titled "_ John Cleese's Letter to America"_.

jb.


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## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

kps said:


> What constitutes illiteracy and how is it gauged? What is the threshold which determines whether a person is literate or illiterate? Forty percent seems awfully high, even with the large influx of non native english speakers into the country.


40% is *high*? At least 80% of the viable population should be literate (viable meaning those that are physically and mentally capable of literacy). It maddens me to no end that many of the immigrants don't learn, or attempt to learn, English.


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

This isn't an immigration issue, John Clay.

Many adults who have difficulty reading and writing speak English fluently--in fact, it's a requirement in the adult literacy program I participate in. The problem is that they cannot read and write... in any language.

Most people in Canada have some level of literacy--for example, the ability to write their own name--but that does not mean they are literate enough to function independantly in our society. (For example, being able to read instructions on a perscription bottle.) 

As Dr. G mentions, it's a complex issue.


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## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

Sonal said:


> This isn't an immigration issue, John Clay.
> 
> Many adults who have difficulty reading and writing speak English fluently--in fact, it's a requirement in the adult literacy program I participate in. The problem is that they cannot read and write... in any language.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying it's solely an immigration issue. But I'm wondering what percent of that 40% are native-born, so to speak, or are foreign-born. If that's native-born only, then literacy, or lack thereof, is more of an issue than I had thought.


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

The thing is, if you are literate in another language, it's relatively easy to learn to become literate in English... you understand how to convert shapes to sounds to meaningful words.

But most adults in this type of literacy program are not literate in any language. 

I don't have stats, but there are a lot of people who speak English as a first language in these programs.


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## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

Sonal said:


> The thing is, if you are literate in another language, it's relatively easy to learn to become literate in English... you understand how to convert shapes to sounds to meaningful words.
> 
> But most adults in this type of literacy program is not literate in any language.
> 
> I don't have stats, but there are a lot of people who speak English as a first language in these programs.


That is rather sad, and somewhat scary. It would be interesting to know the age and gender demographics for this.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

Dr.G. said:


> Welcome to [email protected] | [email protected]
> 
> kps, this is not an easy question to answer. In a way, even with 4 university degrees, I am illiterate in that I can look at a page from a 10th grade math textbook and not have a clue as to what to do on the page. Or, put me in a grade two French Immersion classroom and watch me get frustrated.
> 
> Check out the website I provided for some answers to your fine questions.


I agree that there may not be an easy answer, but at the same time there must be some methodology used to arrive at that 40% figure. Arbitrary numbers mean nothing unless placed in some sort of context. 

The website you linked to deals mainly with workplace literacy as it relates to specific job classifications, as well as varied levels of proficiency. Links to several government sites provided me with some amusement when reading the various proficiency levels needed for specific jobs. Many low paying jobs which we consider unskilled, actually require higher levels of proficiency than jobs we consider skilled. Go figure.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"Many low paying jobs which we consider unskilled, actually require higher levels of proficiency than jobs we consider skilled. Go figure." Very true. I am involved in a workplace literacy project, and I am amazed at how much reading/writing is involved with preparing someone to begin a career in carpentry and food services.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

chas_m said:


> ....This figure probably includes many remote villages where literacy is a secondary skill that is not terribly important in day-to-day living. ....


Yust watts whad yerz sezing boud doze village idiots. Some o dem endz up as Prezydents or Primed Minstrals.


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