# Who, below, will receive a permanent ban from ehMac first?



## james_squared (May 3, 2002)

It's an interesting question. Good luck!


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I'm not sure this is an appropriate topic but I'll leave it up to HizHonur to decide. I'd be interested in your thinking.


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## FLYNSQRL (Aug 6, 2003)

> I'd be interested in your thinking.


Ditto.....


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

j_s, the choices are so limited, that it makes it an even more irrelevant poll. Why single out any one person in such a negative manner?


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2003)

This topic strikes me at odd, because if anyone else's name other than mine would be in that poll, you'd all be whining, bitching and the like, but no, not if it's my name.









This thread is a good laugh.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I'm a little surprised that neither myself nor macello was listed as one of the choices on that poll.

Guess we'll have to try harder in the future, eh?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Lars2, that was the point I was trying to make. Still, I don't think that you should be singled out in any manner. It is not our decision to make, but rather, this decision lies in the hands of our mayor, ehMax.


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## Ingenu (Jun 4, 2003)

This thread is another example of how polite Canadians are  .

In others forums, we would be insulting each others already...









Pardon me.


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## james_squared (May 3, 2002)

Hello,

I just find it amusing that someone who has "been given a cool off period" from ehMac (see this thread and this thread) continues to post on this board. Perhaps the period was very short?

James


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## Peter Scharman (Jan 4, 2002)

Wow, j_s, such discretion!!  It's lack of discretion and questionable behaviour that get people on the mayor's "**** list" in the first place. Don't be surprised if the poll results show how the members feel about this kind of inuendo. It also wouldn't be surprising to see the mayor delete this thread in the near future. I suggest you don't take any jobs that require you to play the office politics. You'll lose.  

[ November 21, 2003, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: Peter Scharman ]


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## Chealion (Jan 16, 2001)

Normally, I'm content standing by and watching things happen and fill in other users (eg. Dr. G) as to what has happened. But this time I feel I should give my 0.02.

The ganging up on a single person, no matter their behaviour is just not cool.  Back when Trevor Morris was on the board, a lot of people actively participated in the flame wars and called him a troll.

Yes, Trevor Morris had some crazy statistics and claims. Yes, Trevor Morris had some very good points that Apple isn't perfect. In the end Trevor Morris was banned because of the endless baiting between himself, sniper and Missisauga.

One of the principle reasons that many threads are able to turn into flame wars, is wording. ASCII is unable to give off meaning very well if at all. Sure emoticons can help, but if a sentence is worded like an attack, its still going to be taken as an attack.

If we look specifically at the straw that broke the camel's back, ( Lars' Post ), Lars had some points. They could have been addressed easily, but jumping to conclusions, and using an attacking tone was not the best course of action.

Lars has made mistakes, and a gang beating should not be what is needed. I've made mistakes, and I remember back when I first joined ehMac, I posted needless 1 liners everywhere. It wasn't until a guy named Rob (I don't know whatever happened to him) posted a thread, in essence flaming my blatant disregard for making a discussion worthwhile. ehMax locked it, and said that attacking other memebers is against the rules. I talked to Rob on ICQ a few minutes after and he explained it out to me. I don't know what would have happened had I not been willing to listen. But since then I've learned to try and strive for quality over quantity. I'm not sure if I'm getting it right with 2800+ posts.

Lars could have been more diplomatic and shouldn't of jumped to conclusions, but that still doesn't mean you should all jump on him. Granted, coming back and posting on a second account I would say is like playing with fire. Just look at what happened to motd/Edmonton Eskimoes. Also remember when macspectrum was banned for the week. It was ugly at first, but when people cooled down, he came back, and the behaviour on this board has generally been very good.

Hopefully, we can come to some conclusion here. I know Lars has been quite helpful here. If you look at many of his Mac Help & Troubleshooting posts, he has been qutie helpful.

Just my 2 cents.

EDIT: I'd have to ditto gordguide's post also. Very nicely said.

[ November 21, 2003, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Chealion ]


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Note to ehMax:

If you ever consider adding another "Public Official" to the list...I would like to nominate Chealion for the position.

I'm serious.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I would strongly second Macnutt's nomination of Chealion as a "public official". Chealion has what JFK called "that special grace", a balance of technical expertise and social conscience, and a touch of humor when needed. Yes, I second the nomination.


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

Obviously ehMac is growing and it's probably inevitable that things get a little less like a close-knit community as this happens.

No problem; I'm willing to put up with it, just as so many are willing to put up with me.

But I want to hear from people, including the people who totally disagree with me; I can't do that if they're banned.

Please keep the personal attacks to a minimum, which in the case of a forum pretty much means nothing at all.

I want all you guys around to bang heads with; and that includes Lars and james_squared. Cool off if you must, but please try to make an effort to keep it an open and welcoming place, everybody. I can't learn anything from people who just nod their head and agree with me, you know.

(Some might say I just should have said "I can't learn anything".) You may be right, but you'll stick around longer if you take a break and then come back all nice and reasonable-like.

Besides, what if you Mac started acting weird tomorrow? You gotta ask for help somewhere. May as well be here.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

This sounds like GG's prairie wisdom. Seriously, he makes a good case for showing a bit of understanding and compassion when being faced with issues that might tend to "angry up the blood" (as Satchel Paige was fond of saying). As gordguide mentions, we are a growing community, and while there are many who do not post anything controversial, many do, and we need to be, again as GG suggests, "reasonable". Yes, wise words from our prarie philosopher.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I also moderate this forum and that's why I questioned the topic and also sent a note to eHamx regarding it. 

It may have some small merit in a general discussion about the topic.

Perhaps the poster wishes to reconsider.???

Chealion at this point and Peter have good comments which might be worthwhile pursuing.

I'm generally against heavy moderating but FOR community pressure to keep things humourous. Salmon salvoes etc

Emoticons and careful use of language can allowed heated but civil discussions and needling can be fun ala MacNutt and Co but it has to be done carefully not thoughtlessly.

Chealion brings up some good discussion points about how to keep it lively and fun and accurate in a medium that is not always conducive to subtle wit.

( this was written while offers including Dr. G and GG were also posting which is why they are not referred to - more later - I also enjoy ahem........jousting.  )


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I think the poll is a bit much. In my mind it steps over the line.

That being said, Lars2 has shown that he accepts it as humour, and that is a sign of maturity in my books.

One thing the poll did do, was to bring out the best in people who think Lars2 is being singled out unnecesssarly. 

With that I concur, but I think no serious damage has come of it.

The matter should be dropped and the poll closed by the author. Then everyone would be reasonably happy.

Cheers


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## HJS (Sep 12, 2003)

Since it seems that everyone wants to express their opinion on the perma-ban concept(pretty funny) I'll link to my last encounter with "The







Formerly Known As... " here:

G5 Test drive contest 

Perhaps some of us are just over-reacting to puerile attention getting follies. For me it's kind of like digging out a small stone stuck in a sock, or a burr in your dog's tail, or some other quaint Canadian metaphor... Anyway, in the end, whose site is this anyway? We're all guests and should try to remain civil...just sometimes


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## james_squared (May 3, 2002)

Hello,

The purpose of the poll is to:

a) provide humour for some people;
b) find out exactly what is meant by, "a cool[ing] off period";
c) question the purpose of having rules, if they are not followed;
d) relieve some boredom for myself; and
e) provide an anonymous outlet for people to express themselves.

I mean no direct disrespect to Lars, Lars2, ehMax, or anyone else in this community. I'm just trying to provide a focal point for some insightful conversion, which is what I have seen so far.

James


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## HJS (Sep 12, 2003)

> some insightful conversion


Are you a Moonie?


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> quote:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> some insightful conversion
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Are you a Moonie?


that would be "enlightened" conversation


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

And does "Moonie" still mean what it did back when I was in high school?

If so...then I may be one.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> And does "Moonie" still mean what it did back when I was in high school?


macnutt,
i think you mean you were a "mooner"
"moonee" would have been the recipient(s) of said action


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Darn! Now you have the whole of my Grad class, plus their parents, identified publicly as "moonies"!

And therin lies a tale.....


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## HJS (Sep 12, 2003)

Back to the original thread, how many times can we vote? If it's just once, I'd hate to make the wrong choice ... but this is just a poll, not an actual vote, right? Lives in the balance...


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

the Sword of Damacles hangs precariously above someone

could this be the genesis of a new reality show?

"Who shall be banned next, on ehMac island?"
then you get to be interviewd on Letterman


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

It's just a poll HJS. The Mayor runs the show and its his choice if he wants to pull someone's ticket.

I wouldn't get all worked up about it if were you. He's pretty fair about this stuff. There have only been two or three people banned while I've been here and they were pretty far over the line from what I recall.

And...for what it's worth...I've been pretty far over the line myself. So have a few other noteable personalities here at ehMac.

So far, I'm still here. So are they. That tell you anything?


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## HJS (Sep 12, 2003)

WoW! I guess whoever mentioned the importance of the little emoticons was right-my previous post was a JOKE







But seriously, I haven't done a poll here-how many times can we vote? Can the pollmaker see who the polltaker has voted for, and how many times? So far I see the only real choice is between Lars and Lars1, but I don't really want to display an overt bias over one or the other  unless that's really the point? So far the original Lars has exhibited some redeeming qualities, whereas Lars1, in his few posts, must be the evil twin


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

I purposely let Lars2 continue to post to give him a 2nd chance, to see if he'll have a bit of a change in attitude. Let's give him a little breathing space and a chance. I've been monitoring his return and I think others are more guilty of nudging him trying to provoke a response. This thread is one example. 

I want to make something clear. I don't like to ban anyone from ehMac. For the most part, helpful nudges and the occasional smelly salmon from fellow ehMac citizens will do the job. It's really great to have guys like Chealion and others here. 

Goodness know when I started my "online presence" on BBS's many moons ago when I was still a teen, I said and acted pretty stupidly on occasion. Some other users where very polite in explaining online etiquette and I got the occasional salmon hurled my way as well. 

Banging heads is a good thing for sure. The site would be a little boring if heads and minds didn't butt together. You just have to have a certain level of decorum while butting and check the insults a the door. Let the ideas and opinions butt, not insults. 

I don't want to have any more Public Officials or moderators. (For the record, Heart and myself are the only moderators/Public Officials). Carbon and Macdoc have been given moderator status to edit their ads only. I think more and more members who have been around here for awhile get a feel for what ehMac is about and help keep members in line or send me an alert for myself to deal with as best I can.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Well stated Mr. Mayor.

I like your attitude.

Maturity has no age.

I have witnessed this many times over on ehMac.

Cheers


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Need that applause emoticon. Well put Mr. Mayor.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

for










ehMacLanders from


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## Peter Scharman (Jan 4, 2002)

Dr G, you have learned well from the icon maven....and now you're doing it with a Mac!

I propose we put his matter to an end by kicking out Lars and letting Lars2 stay. That should satisfy all the voters. Show of hands??


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Peter, I recall the Icon Maven, reteP, saying to me, "Grasshopper, your icons must be like the beauty of the rose. All can see this beauty, but it is only the icon poet who may understand it's true nature."


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## imactheknife (Aug 7, 2003)

I like Lars and Lars2 I think is is a great guy. Yes, there have been times that he has made some comments that some have questioned...myself included, Overall I have never had a problem with him or why is was banned or not banned. I don't know the whole story behind this whole thing, but this poll kinda took me back for few reasons...first I felt that I was on the list and I was freaking out until I saw Lars name in there! TWICE never the less! so then I relaxed and had a laugh about it...but I then felt bad for Lars because I thought he was being singled out. Now after reading all of the follow ups I think Lars is pretty easy going and handled it with style and I wish him the best. To the Mayor of this site, your words are so well put and I wish I had your patience...it shows the years of wisdom and experience you have in dealing with these situations...well done, well said...and well dressed..oops thats that moores commercial!..cheers, Mark


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Peter Scharman has suggested that we kick Lars1 out and keep Lars 2. Sounds fine to me.

Now...I'll go ya one better and propose that we all get together from every corner of Canada and make every person who is too damn serious (or uses a PC) into an official "moonie" by giving them a collective and synchronised you know what.









Show of butts?


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

Ready when you are, Macnutt. Everyone else?

Since we have an "applause" emoticon, maybe we should discuss implementing an uh... er, _butticon_?


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## james_squared (May 3, 2002)

Hello,

HJS typed:



> Are you a Moonie?


Sorry, I'm not a member of the Unification Church. Are you?

James


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## james_squared (May 3, 2002)

Hello,

ehMax typed:



> I purposely let Lars2 continue to post


Thanks for the information.

I'm glad to see I'm winning the race!

James


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

C'mon everyone! Midnight tonight Ontario time we all get ready to face away from whomever is being far too serious (or using a PC at that particular moment in time) and _DROP EM_ !  

That'll show em,eh? 









Oh...and those of you in Newfoundland/Labrador can either make it on the half hour or only expose one cheek. Your choice.

Say...would that be a half-moon?









Ahh...whatever. Who's with me? Show of butts?


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## Peter Scharman (Jan 4, 2002)




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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Loved that emoticon, Peter!









Why did I just _KNOW_ you'd come up with the appropriate one?


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

*I think more and more members who have been around here for awhile get a feel for what ehMac is about and help keep members in line or send me an alert for myself to deal with as best I can.*

The problem with this is that in the past there have been instances where myself or another super citizen have called someone on something and we were completely ignored, because after all what can we do anyway?

The most recent one I can think of also coincided with the moderators leaving for a week (or so) and a thread full of personal attacks, and indeed potentially libellous statements continued on for some time before anything actually happened to stop it. And then when something did happen to stop it the decision was reversed less than a week later.

The whole experience was, to say the least, poor.

So I think we may be getting to the point where more moderators are needed, if for no other reason than only having two isn't always enough to cover the active users and all the spats that start. I'd like to be way off on this, but experience tells me otherwise.

--PB

p.s. Not to say that I am perfect in any regard, in fact if I needed to be moderated I would probably deserve it and certainly wouldn't come back with a second user name right away.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Again, I nominate Chealion. He's here all the time and demonstrates good wisdom and judgement.

And I think PosterBoy is right. There have been some pretty unfortunate exchanges here that should have been squashed before they got totally out of hand. Being a "Super Citizen" means diddly to the principal troublemakers. In fact, telling them they're out of line....even when it's done in a gentle way...tends to just inflame them further.

At least that's been my experience.

Macdoc's been pretty vigilant lately, but he can't be everywhere at once. Capucine's gone now and Heart is rarely heard from. That just leaves our Mayor.

Mods are a tad thin around here, in my opinion.  

And, as one who is regularly participating in these verbal jousts (and relishing every moment of it, lemme tell ya  ) I would be quite willing to accept the authority of one such as Chealion. If he tells me to belt up, I'll do it.

What say ye, yer Honourship?


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

*...participating in these verbal jousts...*

That's textual.

And I'd be willing too, given the right circumstances.

--PB


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

We've debated before PB. We seem to be on the same side in most arguments, but feel free...no matter what your position is.

Hop in and try your luck. I don't bite.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

*And I'd be willing too, given the right circumstances.*

Willing as in either "to accept chealion as a mod" or as "willing to be a mod is the circumstances are right".

--PB


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

My mistook. Got it.


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## Pamela (Feb 20, 2003)

Well I don't know about who should be banned but what I DO know is that this is the only forum that I visit regularly (daily).

I was visiting Ehmac and (I don't want to name other forums but I will in this case because I think it's just a TERRIBLE community) MacNN at one point but got so tired of the personal attacks, sarcasm and general jackass-ness that I vowed never to visit again.

Now ehmac is the only place I go and I do so because I can get everything I need without any bullsh*t. AND because I know that there is *someone* out there keeping an eye on things. Also because it *feels* like a community. I'm not sure if that's because it's smaller than others or what...but it has a nice feeling to it and there is always someone around that knows you that is concerned enough to help you out or find you a deal or whatever.

Anyway, that's my opinion.


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## RicktheChemist (Jul 18, 2001)

I was a mod for a short period of time *goes and cries in the corner*

Cheers,

RtC


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

Spotted this on an automotive-repair BBS this morning:

*Stages In An Internet Message Board Life Cycle*

_1) Start up with an elite clique of personal/email friends. Discussions are very tight.

2) New people join and discussion is strictly on-topic and helpful. Lots of good information is passed around. Message board is in its prime.

3) Newbies arrive and post questions that have been answered before or are stupid questions. Some old-timers are helpful, some flame.

4) Flame war erupts because of off-topic posts or personal insults. Different expectations create conflicts of interest that cause even more flames.

5) People post messages to the effect they are leaving, maybe hoping for sympathy. "And I'm taking my ball with me" They don't actually leave, though, and remain to read the responses to their goodbyes, some returning briefly to flame people. (Go to stage 4) People compete for the most heart-wrenching goodbye. Some people just leave with no goodbyes. Some of them are missed, some not.

6) Things quieten down and the flames stop. Old-timers appeal for calm (!). People who 'left' come back and begin discussions again. Go to stage 2.

7) People leave to start their own message board, splitting membership of the original board. The two new boards go through a period of insulting each other and either go to stage 2, 4 or simply cease to exist through lack of subscribers._


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

As a mere minion amongst the "super citizens" I need clarification as to MacNutt's complaining post: _"Being a "Super Citizen" means diddly to the principal troublemakers. In fact, *telling them they're out of line*....even when it's done in a gentle way...tends to just inflame them further."_ ..... suggests that "Super Citizen" means something other than more than 1000 posts.

My reading of the FAQs is that all users other than moderators are given their titles based only on the number of posts they have made: New Neighbour 0, Full Citizen 30 and Super Citizen 1000.

This is not the first time that our friend has deluded himself into thinking that "super citizen' bestows moderating privileges over "lesser" users. I recall his self promotion to the ehMac "control room" during the macspectrum affair.

I laughed for a good week ....








.... and now .... the "troublemaker" remark (names please!) ....







.

IMHO this topic sucks .....


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> during the macspectrum affair.


i had an affair?


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

At some point ehmax was asked why there are not more moderators and he said that there were enough "Super Citizens" to monitor the posts and prevent things from getting out of hand. This was the first and only time that I thought we had some sort of extra influence or responsibilties.

So I tried to calm a certain shrill individual with a few suggestions such as "when you are screaming insults and calling people names all the time, you are probably not being taken as seriously as you would be if you were a bit les strident". Or something to that effect.

It didn't help. This full citizen (you know who you are) just got even shriller and louder until I thought he was going to blow a gasket.

And that is the ONLY time that I have ever attempted this.

Personally, I don't care HOW many posts a person has below their name or what their "status" here is. I never look at that, when reading or replying to a thread.

And I've said this many times. I mean it.


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

MacNutt, it was worth the laugh ..... and still is ....


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

*macello said:
As a mere minion amongst the "super citizens" I need clarification as to MacNutt's complaining post: "Being a "Super Citizen" means diddly to the principal troublemakers. In fact, telling them they're out of line....even when it's done in a gentle way...tends to just inflame them further." ..... suggests that "Super Citizen" means something other than more than 1000 posts.
[.....]
This is not the first time that our friend has deluded himself into thinking that "super citizen' bestows moderating privileges over "lesser" users. I recall his self promotion to the ehMac "control room" during the macspectrum affair.
*

Macello, had you been reading you would have seen this statement from ehMax:
_ I think more and more members who have been around here for awhile get a feel for what ehMac is about and help keep members in line _

Which is not the first of it's kind, he has stated in the past that the super citizens should be be helping out in trying to keep everyone in line.

But it doesn't work, because we have no power to back up anything we say. For example, I have told you to stop posting with such insulting undertones on many occasions, but here you are doing it again.

--PB


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Humour, flying salmon and easing up on the heavy sarcasm are all worthy acitivities for ALL of us.

Macello your sarcasm gets edgy at times - you are best for me when you write seriously but often have to be prodded into it and sometimes your asides are just too convoluted.

Just remember there are some hidden relationships that allow some of us to joust with in a bit more acidulous manner that might appear offensive without the knowing the context or the history.
Jumping into one of those in a high dudgeon is like the third man in in hockey.









I don't think we need moderators in the technical sense - I'm only one for my ads and the occasional "by request" or humorous purpose.
The community, just by conversing, sets the tone and it's good exercise for all of us.
Macnutt throws me a crust from time to time then gets me thoroughly annoyed on the very next post.
It's all give and take and we ALL can and need to not only moderate, but also draw more of the less frequent posters in to the discussions so they feel comfortable - I might needle Sinc a bit but I'm glad he's here and I wish we head more from Pamela and Lotus and many others.

It's a bit like a party and it takes us all to get it rolling along 










an active bouncy community is WEALTH.....right Macnutt.  

Having the mayor need to referee is admitting our inability to community build ourselves but there are times and posters who don't get the "esprit d'core" and having the Mayor as a fall back is appropriate.

It's up to us to make this an interesting place with all that implies.  

Who have you invited to ehMac lately.......eh 

[ November 22, 2003, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: macdoc ]


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I agree macdoc. And I suspect that some of the shrill insults that have been flung about might just prevent a few of the newer members from speaking up. No one likes that sort of thing to be directed at them by an established member.

Well...I kind of enjoy it. It's fun.

But most people probably don't. And I think that if more people were a tad more civil and didn't devolve into personal insults when they'd run out of real things to say...then we would probably have more people joining into the discussion.

Anybody else agree with me here? Show of butts?
















(sorry...I just HAD to do that)


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> Show of butts?


back to the "mooner" thing again, are we macnutt?


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

So ..... one user wants another booted for personal reasons by posting a new topic/vote on an unrelated thread solely for that purpose.


The below posts I count as sane and welcome:

MacDoc: "I'm not sure this is an appropriate topic."

Dr.G: "Why single out any one person in such a negative manner?"

Chealion: "The ganging up on a single person, no matter their behaviour is just not cool."

Sinc: "I think the poll is a bit much. In my mind it steps over the line."

Peter Scharman's prophetic: "You'll lose!"

The rest (not withstanding our Supreme ehBeing) seem like a show of self importance IMO.

*I repeat*

"What are user titles?" 

My reading of the FAQs is that all users other than moderators are given their titles based only on the number of posts they have made: New Neighbour 0, Full Citizen 30 and Super Citizen 1000.

"What are moderators?" 

Moderators control individual forums. They can edit, delete, or prune any posts in their forums. If you have a question about a particular forum, you should direct it to your forum moderator.
http://www.ehmac.ca/cgi_bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=faq

Nowhere do I see more than two moderators.

Has this topic degenerated into a kangaroo court?

Reminds me of Golding's "The Lord of the Flies." where various characters jockeyed for positions of power.
The lesson we learned from Golding's "Lord of the Flies" concerns socially backward instincts, albeit tragically human.

Such "gang" mentality (singling out one user) belongs where the sun don't shine.

*"Note: ehMac doesn't believe in rating its members. Everyone's cool here!"* 

The poll results say it all


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Macello, you make a very wise point, and not just for life here in ehMacLand, with your statement that "The lesson we learned from Golding's 'Lord of the Flies' concerns socially backward instincts, albeit tragically human." Personally, I think interactive exchanges re a variety of issues/topics, be they political or about technology, can be meaningful if we try to keep in check those "socially backward instincts".


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## Chealion (Jan 16, 2001)

macello - I think you've missed the meaning of what ehMax said about the Super Citizens.

To accumulate 1000 posts, you've had to have been here a while. And he said, that those who have been here awhile understand the underlying premise and in general what makes ehMac tick more or less.

In simple terms, he is encouraging the more elder members to help keep things civil as they are more experienced at being part of this community.

It sounds elitist, but in no way shape or form is it. It's like your parents telling your older brother to look out for you.

You imply that all the posts here were motivated by "self importance". I have to disagree. I know I made my comment on the premise that although Lars typed before he thought, ganging up on someone shouldn't be happening. It isn't completely, but people have been ticked off with Lars. Was the temporary ban called for? Maybe, that isn't my place to call it.

Is Lars coming back and posting as Lars2 a smart thing? Most likely not. But Lars very well could be seeing the error of his ways and wants to come back and be a normal contributor to the community.

macspectrum, who you so vehemently opposed the banning of, was as far as I had seen even more mad about being banned then Lars. But after the week, and him apologizing, he was allowed back, and macspectrum knows he was out of line.

As far as I can tell, there was no matter of self-importance here. It was members weighing in on what has happened thus far. Whether this was originally meant as a joke or not, I know I did not take this as one. It was not apparent as a joke either.


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## lotus (Jun 29, 2002)

This was an asinine topic that didn't deserve a response, but having said that, I am glad everyone jumped in with their opinion and hopefully in the future we will have a little more patience and treat each other with more respect.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

lotus speaks like the true lady she is here in ehMacLand. She helps to represent what is good about the citizens of our fine community, and we are a better place for having her common sense and integrity as part of our forum. Paix.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Now if we could just her to speak her mind a bit more often  

Yes Lotus that's a needle


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## RicktheChemist (Jul 18, 2001)

We all seem to put our foot in our mouths every so often on ehMac.. I think it has become part of the ehMac culture but we are normally corrected. I believe that a few of Lars' statements were a bit over the top but that does not justify some of the replies he got. Why not have a policy here that if something degenerates into a flame war.. shut it down and let cooler heads prevail. Most of the time, I am sure we don't expect things on ehMac to be taken as serious as a real life converation, but you are mistaken. You are not talking to a username or alias, you are talking to someone else on the other end..

Lars coming back as Lars2.. I don't agree with.. he should have respected the wishes of the mayor to cool off...

My two cents...

Cheers,

RtC

P.S. Lars..you still are one ofthe coolest mac dudes out there...


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

by chealion



> macspectrum, who you so vehemently opposed the banning of, was as far as I had seen even more mad about being banned then Lars. But after the week, and him apologizing, he was allowed back, and macspectrum knows he was out of line.


1. please don't tell others what i may or may not think - perhaps you could have just asked me?
2. i don't recall being more "mad" (NOTE: people get upset, dogs get mad) than Lars - if so, wouldn't i have come back as macspectrum2?
3. as for "knowing i was out of line" and "apologizing" - let's just say that honey is better than vinegar and i just wanted to put the whole matter behind me

next time, just ask me what i think - i'm usually pretty good about letting people know as such

re: my banishment - you must know better than others that there were "other forces" at play in the decision to ban me for a week or whatever it was - i won't go into detail

*CONCLUSION:*
ehMac belongs to ehMax - he is ruler of all he surveys on ehMac
the TOS (terms of service) are merely suggestions that are interpreted by the ehMac PTB (powers that be) at their discretion

it should be noted that i never did break any ehMac rules - it was a subjective decision - one that i am well aware of and have no issues with since this is NOT my home, and as such my rules DO NOT apply

macello's analogy with "The Lord of the Flies" is very appropriate for fledgling internet communities. this "jockeying" for power and position is part of the natural adolescence of such a community

there are those that are liked and those that are not and then there are those that are in "special circumstances" and have privileges bestowed upon them

it's just how life (on the ineternet) goes - not bad or good, just "is"

now, how about that Paul Matin, eh?


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

I certainly agree that this is an asinine topic, which is the reason I posted here in the first place ... that the poll indicates that the topic starter should be the one permanently banned from ehMac attests to this.

_"macello - I think you've missed the meaning of what ehMax said about the Super Citizens."_

Chealion, Your personal interpretation aside, I can find no information on this site that indicates that there is any meaning to "super citizen" other than the accumulation of 1000 posts.

The rest of your post (_"It's like your parents telling your older brother to look out for you."_) sounds condescending and patronizing. That does not get my respect.

_"As far as I can tell, there was no matter of self-importance here."_ 

To that suggestion I have to disagree as IMO it smacks of an assumption of rank where none exists in the ehMac FAQ.
*The FAQ is all a reader has to work with* like a charter and now you tell us that there is an "underlying premise" to "super citizenship" bestowing big brotherly admonishment upon other members.

In fact, the suggestion that you or anyone other than the moderators are "big brother" to "lower ranked" (your implication) users at ehMac belies the: *"Note: ehMac doesn't believe in rating its members. Everyone's cool here!"* which I posted for some reaction. (anyone?) 
I think that to be an enlightened statement .... and it saddens me to see a topic which subject and travesty is the rating of members.

In that light it maybe just that he topic starter is proven the big loser here.


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## HJS (Sep 12, 2003)

The question the poll asks is not who should be the first person to receive a permanent ban. but "Who, below, will receive a permanent ban from ehMac first? " 

I don't know how things can get so convoluted when it can be read at the top of each page of this fascinating thread. Very interesting to see how various board "personalities" expose various aspects of their character in the varied reactions to the concept of "discipline" and light sarcasm. I think the poll was a valid rallying flag to alert us of Lars2's sudden appearance, and meant to be humourous, not malicious. 

It's also brought out the best of this very democratic forum, though as in other off-Mac topic threads I've read through, someone always has a different axe to grind. The only one who should be taking this personally is Lars, and perhaps he has...why else haven't we heard a peep from him in over 24 hrs? Never thought I'd see the day  

I agree fully with the temporary ban of Lars-what he said and implied about the Mayor was nothing short of slander and would be considered libelous in many jurisdictions...

Nothing drastic or unfair about asking someone to take a time-out for this sort of transgression-I respect how the Mayor kept his cool.

The root of this discussion, though, shouldn't be so much about who should be banned for what, but what sort of controls can be put in place to respond effectively to over-the-top behaviour? Every post has a whistle/report post button on the bottom right, shouldn't this be enough?

Why would anyone want to vote for a dictator, and then think they had a right to fight over who should be chief of the secret police?


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## Chealion (Jan 16, 2001)

macello - The statement: "Note: ehMac doesn't believe in rating its members. Everyone's cool here!", came into place when ehMax removed the rating feature a ways back. (I don't remember a date, sorry.) Although you are right, in that one member should not count more then the next.

I think (I could be wrong), that you are misinterpreting what I said. It was in no way meant to be condescending or anything that would put you lower then I am. By bigger brother, I was alluring to that age old societal practice of those having experience helping/guiding those with less. Or particularly in the native communities, the elders are revered, and they would teach the children.

If someone joins up here, say tomorrow and starts spouting random things, and making topics for no apparent reason, is it not always someone who has more experience at the forum who (hopefully very nicely) informs the new user, "uhhh... That's not how things are done here, read a little bit, and then jump in" or something along the lines of "Welcome, but stop the needless posts. And here is what I mean: *insert explanation*".

Also, the underlying premise, is like the unwritten law. It isn't spelled out because people should either know it already or its just something nobody expects anyone to break. For a forum like this, it is against the unwritten law to start talking in aZn or cOmPlEtE l337 5|*34k because it's hard to read and doesn't fit the decorum of this forum. Doesn't mean you can't, but you'll tend to turn a lot of people off by doing so.

I don't see members being rated either. A super citizen is only a classification that tells people, hey, they must know something as they've been here a while. This *can* go both ways in that it can intimidate someone (eg. macdoc can be intimidating in discussions) but it also gives you someone you can talk to who has a history, and thus a reputation on this board.

macello - I really hope this clarifies what I was originally trying to tell you in my first post addressed to you.

HJS - Pardon either my naïveness or stupidity, but secret police? When did ehMac get a secret police?  

EDIT: *macspectrum* - I'm sorry I misrepresented you. I should have asked, and well as they say, "my bad". Please accept my humble apologies.

[ November 23, 2003, 02:56 AM: Message edited by: Chealion ]


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Just for the record here....

I do not particularly like the idea of dividing this community into so-called "Super Citizens" and regular "Full Citizens". It tends to put some of us in the "have" group and some of us in the "have-not" group.

And it actively encourages some of the more ambitious new members to post a lot of empty replies to threads just to attain this "exalted status".

Senority or rank that is determined by the amount of time spent here is pretty meaningless to me. I see no real pecking order at ehMac....and I NEVER look at how many posts a person has under their name when reading their replies. I couldn't give two hoots what their "status" is, either.

I am far more concerned with what they have to say, than how often they have said it. 

Honest.

There was none of this "Super Citizen" stuff when I signed on....and I would prefer it if we were all considered equals here.

Having said all of that, I would just like to clear up something that macello has brought up.

He claims that ehMax never assigned any sort of extra responsibility to "Super Citizens". And he is exactly right... it certainly doesn't state that in the FAQ.

But the Mayor did say this once. On a thread from last september entitled "Is it my imagination?" 

Both PosterBoy and I have mentioned this thread and tried to justify our temporary (and totally worthless, as it turned out) extra responsibilities while trying to dampen down a major flame war that was going on at the time. In it, one individual was hurling personal insults in all directions and needed to be chilled a bit. That person didn't get the hint and got even more worked up when we tried to put the brakes on.

The result was that most of us "Super Citizens" totally gave up on trying to help moderate anything.

But the Mayor DID ask us to help out at one time. Here's the link: 

 Ehmax on Super Citizens 


The mayor's statement is the 8th post from the top of the page. It is right under one of my posts and right above that is one of macello's.

I'm surprised he didn't remember it. Or perhaps he didn't read it that closely because he wanted to reply in a timely fashion (I've been guilty of this myself, on occasion).

BTW...macello, I hope you appreciate the effort that went into this. It took me almost an hour and a half and five disconnects to find this bit of data from the ehMac archives. I'm a bit surprised that you could not locate it. You are much better than I am at this sort of thing.

And you were a very big part of this thread, after all. A bit puzzling....especially when you seem to be so quick to find data that supports your position on so very many subjects.



[ November 23, 2003, 03:16 AM: Message edited by: macnutt ]


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

Macello:

I think you are taking this whole thing out of context.

ehMax said: _more and more members who have been around here for awhile get a feel for what ehMac is about and help keep members in line _

Many people have been here a while, yourself included. Most of them are super citizens by now, but that isn't the point.

The point is that no one except a moderator has the power to back up anything they ask people to do, and are thus mostly ineffectual when trying to "keep people in line."

You said: _the suggestion that you or anyone other than the moderators are "big brother" to "lower ranked" (your implication) users at ehMac belies the: "Note: ehMac doesn't believe in rating its members. Everyone's cool here!" which I posted for some reaction_

Please stop twisting analogies.

What chealion is saying is, if ehMac were a family, the moderators would be parents and the people who have been here longer would be older siblings. Sometimes and older sibling may ask a younger sibling (a new user in the context of this analogy) to calm down or stop picking a fight with another sibling, but what power does the older sibling have? None really. All he can do is tell the parents later on.

So in effect, ehMax asking the people who have been here longer to help out is not an effective deterrent to the types of behaviour that need deterring, such as personal attacks.

"Lets moderate ourselves" is a nice idea, but it just doesn't work. ehMac, in my opinion, needs more moderators. There doesn't need to be many, but they are needed to be here and active.

--PB

[ November 23, 2003, 04:00 AM: Message edited by: PosterBoy ]


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

Here is what ehMax said about super citizens:
*I'll finally say this: I try to run ehMac as best I can. And as they say, heavy is the head that wears the crown. I can't watch the forums 24/7, but I think we have enough "Super Citizens" here to help keep things in check without officially assigning this person and that person in charge as moderators. *

And here is a link directly to his post.

--PB


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Exactly right Posterboy. This is, I believe, the very same link that I posted a bit earlier.

And I agree with you totally. We need more moderators as this community grows. I would not be a particularly good moderator...because I am often in the thick of the battle. 

Consequently my "Super Citizen" status is totally meaningless. I would actively encourage all who post here to ignore it.

But Chealion has demonstrated some rare insight and a wisdom that goes far beyond any physical age. I would be proud to see him as any sort of moderator on this forum.

For that matter, PosterBoy and GordGuide might also be very good referees. They both seem to be posessed of great intelligence and maturity.

We need more moderators with some real power, Mr. Mayor. I submit my humble suggestions above, for consideration on his subject.

Just my thoughts on this.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Macello you are making a mountain out of a molehill.  
••••••
Michael exactly right.
•••••
Putting Chealion or anyone else in position of moderator who actually does it then starts the kind of power divisions that are destructive as those that feel slighted now put say Chealion in an uncomfortable position of playing Solomon. If we have to deal with it ourselves...which I firmly beleive we can do.....the it becomes everyones responsibility - not the moderators...in this particular community.

I had the power to kill this thread from the moment it started but I refuse to exercise it.

Posterboy, many other forums are very topic specific and indeed the moderator is the meeting leader keeping it on track and cutting off those who are derailing the focus. Say the forum is on HD TV or Final Cut 4 and moderated by someone who is knowledgeable. THEN perhaps more frequent exercise of a moderators power is justifiable.

That's not the case here in my opinion other than perhaps Trading Post where the Mayor does perform that function and not without rancour and resentment.

I wanted this forum in particular, and I find ehMac overall, to be less like a formal town hall meeting and more like a bunch of neighbours gathering in a kitchen to shoot the breeze. Sure there will be wrangling and heated words at times but it's not a got a formal hierarchy like say a business meeting would have. Neighbors can leave for a while and in worst case someone too deep in their cups gets booted by the host.

There is big difference between the two and my reading of ehMac is that it's a community of equals with one fall back "keep the peace when all else fails" Mayor.

Post frequency designators are meanlingless but there are quite enough of us here to nudge threatening situations back on track with cajolery, humour or a straight to the point comment.

There have been very few, perhaps too few strong exchanges over the past while aside from clipping Macello's sarcasm a tad it's a fairly peaceable kingdom...tho Macnutt is getting under my skin about Bush again. 

For the record I don't like moderated forums in this context ( topic specific is different ) and feel I have the skill and others have the skill to nudge threads and discussions simply by participating....sort of like control rods in a nuclear reactor.  
Shove them in too far with heavy moderation and it kills the energy.....leave the reactions untouched and they run away into flame wars.
We ALL have our hands on the control rods and I for one prefer it that way.

With due respect Dr. G I strongly recommend against burdening Chealion or anyone with public official status tho I'd listen to what HE says about it.

Chealion's current methodology of post style and involvement is a model and that's all that can or SHOULD be expected of any community member.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Although I joined this forum in February of 2001, I chose to be a "lurker" and posted very few times, other than to ask for assistance or advice on matters Mac. But I did read here every day. 

While I stood back and observed, I saw the community grow in both numbers and in the quality of posts.

I did see from time to time, empassioned and even inflamed posts by indignant members, but hardly ever saw any post that could be construed as mean or vicious.

In short I think ehMacers do a very good job of being civil to one another and I do not think we really need any more public officals.

macdoc said it all, in my opinion:



> I had the power to kill this thread from the moment it started but I refuse to exercise it.


The wisdom in that short statement should inspire us all to better treatment of each other, without a heavy hand to threaten us.

Cheers


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Moderator power corrupts moderately.


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## lotus (Jun 29, 2002)

Sinc, like you I "lurked" for weeks before I registered with ehMac. In fact I checked it out when I read an article in the Kitchener Record a long time ago. From all the other forums, I found ehMac the best. You cannot go wrong by following Macdoc's advice.

Macdoc, that "needle" didn't hurt a bit, just becareful what you ask for!


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)




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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

madoc;


> Michael exactly right.


David, please use "correct" and not "right." You'll give macnutt the idea I may be voting "unholy alliance."


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

MacNutt: _"Both PosterBoy and I have mentioned this thread and tried to justify our temporary extra responsibilities (and totally worthless, as it turned out)"_
..... amen  
Although the word "temporary" is a qualifier of sorts, I believe that some rushed to judgement a bit too enthusiastically. Those that assumed controlling interest had partisan involvement and in the estimation of others were automatically unqualified to attempt the moderation of behavior of others.
The negative reaction you get for your "moderating" (moderators excepted) stems from your partisan involvement in discussion.
On this topic those with partisan involvement disqualify themselves as unofficial "moderators" (moderators excepted). 

Chealion's "A super citizen is only a classification that tells people, hey, they must know something as they've been here a while" is still a false statement, albeit a convoluted finessing of same.

Sorry, this language _" .... those having experience helping/guiding those with less .....the elders are revered, and they would teach the children."_ is even more patronizing. 

ehMax gave no names in the quoted post from the "imagination" topic and used quotes around the term super citizens which any literate reader would assume as tongue-in-cheek.

It still looks like some and very happily not all "super citizens" are desperately trying to add an unwritten dimension or bonus or "extra responsibilities" to a purely numerical assignation.

At least, the topic has revealed much about tendencies liberal and controlling ... mostly altruistic ....  

I find revolting this idiotic puerile chatter and show of butts about someone's official "cooling off" and usurping the Mayor's right by asking users to permanently ban that person by poll. 

I do thank the topic starter for walking the plank.

Now .... how do we get this topic to suicide?


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## lotus (Jun 29, 2002)

Amen!


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

"I find revolting this idiotic puerile chatter" 

this is exactly what gets people annoyed Macello. A reasonable if defensive and somewhat convoluted post then a complete dissing of those that took the time to explore the issue.  

In my eyes it's extremely important how a community deals with these kinds of issues and how the topic got started is immaterial - it's in play.
If you find it revolting and puerile then STAY OUT OF IT. 

Other members took the time and put their thoughts in the open the very least you could do is show a modicum of respect instead of a "revolting and puerile" attitude.


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## HJS (Sep 12, 2003)

> asking users to permanently ban that person by poll.


That was never the question!
Read the question! It's at the top of the page!
It seems that some member(s) just used this thread to get into another personal p***ing contest, over status (or no need for status), or to denigrate the efforts of others to cool previous mini-flame wars. Enuf ! Maybe there just be an idiocy meter on each post, with an idiocy quota per page? This is an "Anything Else" forum, why try to turn it into "Anything Else But..."?


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I perceive that the "member(s)" referred to just got a dumptruck load of very fragrant decayed salmon on their doorstep.

Well said HJS.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Macdoc, you touch upon an interesting research topic re the social dynamics, albeit in a virtual sense, of the interactive exchanges of members within this community. This is actually becoming the topic of research re online couses that utilize discussions (e.g., WebCT, Blackboard, etc), and how the professor is able to become the facilitator rather than the leader. 

Personally, in this forum, I feel that there are enough members, regardless of status and/or number of posts, that help to maintain a level of decorum, common sense, and an equilibrium that is needed for such a diverse community as we are now...and still becoming. Names like lotus, Sinc, Chealion, Minnes, jeac5, Heart, used to be jwoodget (I miss his directness and intellect), et al come to mind. Still, with these, and others, online most of the time (even JimW is back every-so-often), we have a self-monitoring "eco-system" in place to keep the likes of the rest of us in a somewhat state of equilibrium.

Of course, trying to get a Tri-lateral Council Ethics Review Committee clearance to study the group dynamics that exist in our community would be monumental.


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## Peter Scharman (Jan 4, 2002)

Interesting........page six and counting  . I'm just sitting back and catching the reactions. As a recreational joint-smoking friend of mine likes to say, "Why can't we all just get a bong?"
Surprisingly, some good points came out of this forum. I could do without the baiting by macello, though. Chealion, I understand what you meant and I also know it was nor intended to be condescending or patronizing. There will always be someone trying to dig deeper into the message than what was intended and make an issue of it. I have a close relative who has done this all their lifetime and it makes for a very touchy relationship. Keep up the good postings!


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

HJS, What part of "permanent ban" don't we understand? 

If not the question it remains the suggestion. 

Accordingly, I look forward to the starter's honourable acceptance and execution of the poll results.


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## HJS (Sep 12, 2003)

Macello, what part of being an a** haven't you explored yet? If you can't get the most basic facts of this whole discussion into your head, why do you continue to spew your particular, idiosyncratic drivel all over it? There, I'm speaking my mind


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> There, I'm speaking my mind


Oye!
Now why didn't you say that in the 1st place as opposed to hiding behind a "poll" ?


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## HJS (Sep 12, 2003)

> hiding behind a "poll" ?


?Huh?? Go back to page 2 of this thread to my first post on this subject for a link to what I expressed to Lars2 directly-what's to hide? I repeat, I think the topic of this thread was meant in jest, and of course the meaningful discussions that ensued are threatened to be hi-jacked by those with another, perhaps longer standing "agenda"? Perhaps I should just go back to lurking and shaking my head in disbelief??? Chill, people...I've always preferred Arrid or Mennen over Ban, anyway


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## jfpoole (Sep 26, 2002)

It's nice to see macello demonstrate once again that he's not interested in actual discussion, but rather insulting and inflaming other forum participants.

It's also nice to see macello demonstrate that sometimes you do need moderators to take care of some forum participants. Stupid ideas like a "salmon cannon" just don't cut it.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> It's also nice to see macello demonstrate that sometimes you do need moderators to take care of some forum participants. Stupid ideas like a "salmon cannon" just don't cut it.


I see that the jackboots and brown shirt have arrived.


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## jfpoole (Sep 26, 2002)

macspectrum,

It's nice to see you're still an asshole

[ November 23, 2003, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: macdoc ]


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## HJS (Sep 12, 2003)

P.S. Can we have a few other names added to this informal, rather innocent opinion seeking poll? Maybe with a few side-bets?








A perma-ban doesn't seem like a solution for any of this; the most egregious offender(mostly to common sense) was Lars, in what he spewed off to the Mayor. He was advised of a temporary time out-he was back as Lars2 within a day or so... James Squared devised this poll probably to make others aware of this, nothing more. The ball isn't in our court anyway...so why take it so seriously? 
Maybe it's fun to have a verbal rumble here for some folks, but who here would you invite into your living room? Maybe a relevant topic for another poll?


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## arminarm (Jan 12, 2002)

HJS "I think the topic of this thread was meant in jest,"

...... and that's okay too ... as they say in therapy .... we all need our "happy place".









MacSpectrum, if jfpoole speaks from his "happy place", let's leave him there undisturbed







.... okidokI ?


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

JFP can you tell me clearly what possible difference I could see between your attitude and Macello's. 

At least Macello has had courage to participate....you on the other hand  
Macello CAN contribute in a reasonable manner when he chooses too.
I've yet to see evidence here of that from you.

You appear not to know or care anything about community building.

••

HJS that's kitchen in Canada.. Noooooobody uses a living room anymore


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

aw, c'mon, so much negative energy
in the spirit shown by the golfers (Presidents Cup) earlier today, let's all go have a Steam Whistle beer or 2 or 3.

I'm buying !


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

That was kinda cool seeing the best golfers in the world make nice with each other.
Lot of ego in that crowd.


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## jfpoole (Sep 26, 2002)

macdoc,

After over 1600 posts you're claiming that I don't have the courage to participate, and that you've never seen me contribute in a reasonable manner? Are you illiterate, or do you just have a poor memory?

I know a fair bit about building communities online, and I've talked about it before on ehMac. However, it seems that suggesting that moderators are necessary makes me a jack-booted Nazi. 

So, for now, I'm happy just to sit back and watch ehMac make the same mistakes just about every other online community has made. It's less stressful and more amusing.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Read the post ... you jumped to an unwarranted conclusion - I specifically said "here"......referring to this thread and you jumped to the broader conclusion all on your own.

If you claim to be a community builder then edit your own post and tone the negativity down.

You know exactly what we are talking about here yet you jumped in with both fists and that hardly gives cred to claim of "experience in community building".


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## jfpoole (Sep 26, 2002)

"Here" was ambiguous; as I said I've talked about this sort of thing before and presumed that you would remember that. I also never claimed to be a community builder, or have experience in building communities; I've simply read a lot by people that have, and from what I've read, ehMac is doing a lot of things wrong. 

Quite frankly, after seeing idiots like macello and macspectrum given free reign on ehMac, I can't say I care all that much at this point about ehMac: the community.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Classic.....why are we blessed with your wisdom then? 
You damn yourself with your own words.

The one accurate thing you've said here is that you don't know anything about community building....that is patently obvious.


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## jfpoole (Sep 26, 2002)

macdoc,

Are you illiterate? You seem illiterate (if only functionally). Where did I say I knew nothing about community building?


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

This is starting to look like what appears to be an evolved
Pit o' Flames...The past it seems has started to repeat itself.

Dave


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Your misuse of the English language is exceeded only by your hubris in thinking you do know how to use language accurately.

"I also never claimed to be a community builder, or have experience in building communities"

"Where did I say I knew nothing about community building?"

So now you are telling me you ARE experienced in community building. Shall we let you "reign" over the community...I guess that was a slip too.

If you DO know how to work within a community then edit your own posts to show it. Nothing I've seen here gives any indication of your willingness or ability to community build. Show us.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> The past it seems has started to repeat itself.


sort' like a bad burrito  

corollary; "What is past is prologue."
JFK -Oliver Stone


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## jfpoole (Sep 26, 2002)

macdoc,

It's possible to know something about a subject, yet have no direct experience with that subject. I know a fair bit about operating systems, yet I've never written one, nor would I call myself an operating system developer.

Do you understand now, or do I need to explain it again?


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

macspectrum noted:


> corollary; "What is past is prologue."
> JFK -Oliver Stone


Actually, it was a quote originally from Bill Shakespere's "The Temptest"

“Yes,” he muttered, “the unicorn was right.” All the unicorns reared back and charged, their horns, like lances, set to tear him apart. “What is past is prologue...”

...ah, Grade 8 English, I knew thee fairly well.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Well now you have a chance to have some hands on direct experience to the test "the something you know about community building".

Your last line wouldn't qualify as elegant code in the OS of Community Build.

ref: Chealion V1.0 ......an elegant example of participation and useful endeavour in an online community and the rewards thereof

his nomination by Heart for Dr. Gs award

"I nominate Chealion.

And why?

Chealion contributes in a positive way to the community. He has worked diligently on programs to better the community.
Including ehMac Widget (Version One), ehMac Control Widget, ehMac Place and some 2700 posts.

Not that you have to post 2700 times to be a good citizen but this is alot of posts and I would say they are all positive. "

An opportunity for hands on experience with a clear example from which to derive your "code"....... let's see how you do.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

I find it totally ironic that some who are saying we need more moderators are the very ones who would be moderated themselves.  

I think ehMac is a really good forum the way it's run now. If anyone doesn't like it, you can PM or email me with your suggestions.

I'm not going to add any more moderators to lock threads or to ban people. Members on this forum are adults, not a bunch of school children who need constant parental or teacher supervision. I don't want to put anyone else in the position of having to make a decision to lock a thread or to ban someone. 

Or to be a referee to members acting like school children hurling insults with the excuse that someone else started it.  

There would be several members in this thread I could easily give a cooling off period too. How about I just call this thread a day and thank everyone for their input. I don't want to see any more rebuttal posts on the subject for now. 

Remember people. Be nice. Relax. It's just a Mac forum.


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