# My $3000 piece of Macbook Pro garbage



## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

Bought a new Macbook Pro in late fall. Supposed to be the best that Apple has to offer in a laptop at that time. 

Aside from the fact that Apple released a refresh just a few months later (GRRRRR), the machine I bought is plagued with beachballs, and can't even edit a simple movie in iMovie, let alone Final Cut Pro. The fan runs over the simplest load, and I find myself knashing my teeth at the crappy quality of iMovie and iPhoto's latest versions. So damned slow. 

Kernal Panics since day one. No matter how much Onyx, Cocktail I run, no matter how much maintenance, I find this machine a piece of garbage, and I could have bought three Windoze laptops for the price of this one. 

Do you think if I shlep down the Apple store, they'll replace it with a new one? 

Thanks for listening. :greedy:


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## Digikid (Jun 22, 2010)

Sounds like a valid rant. Apples latest updates leave much to be desired in the stability range it appears.

Try this. Do a backup of your important data and then restore using the CD's that came with your lappy. DO NOT do any updates. See if the issues appear. If they do not then allow the updates but do it one at a time....leaving the 10.6.7 update last.

See if we can find the culprit.

If it is still like that.....then back to the Apple store it goes.


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

If you can replicate the problems (especially kernal panics) in front of an apple genius then it'd be worth the trip to an apple store to see if there's a fix. Not sure they'd* replace it*, but they could *fix it*.

A few things before you make an appointment.... does it have the ORIGINAL ram & HDD? If it doesn't I'd replace these since non-apple components could be blamed for any beach balling.


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## Digikid (Jun 22, 2010)

Also good points.

my new Macbook Pro 13 inch does it though with the original parts in it.....so I lean more against the updates.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

Digikid said:


> Sounds like a valid rant. Apples latest updates leave much to be desired in the stability range it appears.
> 
> Try this. Do a backup of your important data and then restore using the CD's that came with your lappy. DO NOT do any updates. See if the issues appear. If they do not then allow the updates but do it one at a time....leaving the 10.6.7 update last.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the sympathy. I shoot small films for clients. The camera rig I bought for under $2k has been fantastic. DSLR has come of age. But I dread editing the stuff (we're talking 5-10 minute films!) because of this piece of crap MBP and its programs. Takes me forever. I even went back and forth with an iMovie developer who acknowledged what a piece of crap the program is. It takes me 40 minutes easy to import footage from iphoto into iMovie every time!

Meanwhile FCP, running it in real-time? Forget it! 

Also, I'm 46 and the fact that I cannot set the type size of the system after all this time drives me bananas. (tried 3rd party apps, they don't work). 

Do I sound like a jilted Mac lover??


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

i-rui said:


> If you can replicate the problems (especially kernal panics) in front of an apple genius then it'd be worth the trip to an apple store to see if there's a fix. Not sure they'd* replace it*, but they could *fix it*.
> 
> A few things before you make an appointment.... does it have the ORIGINAL ram & HDD? If it doesn't I'd replace these since non-apple components could be blamed for any beach balling.


Yea all original garbage


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

Digikid said:


> Sounds like a valid rant. Apples latest updates leave much to be desired in the stability range it appears.
> 
> Try this. Do a backup of your important data and then restore using the CD's that came with your lappy. DO NOT do any updates. See if the issues appear. If they do not then allow the updates but do it one at a time....leaving the 10.6.7 update last.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the suggestion, though it's not about the updates--it's consistently awful, independent of updates.


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## a7mc (Dec 30, 2002)

imachungry said:


> Thanks for the sympathy. I shoot small films for clients. The camera rig I bought for under $2k has been fantastic. DSLR has come of age. But I dread editing the stuff (we're talking 5-10 minute films!) because of this piece of crap MBP and its programs. Takes me forever. I even went back and forth with an iMovie developer who acknowledged what a piece of crap the program is. It takes me 40 minutes easy to import footage from iphoto into iMovie every time!
> 
> Meanwhile FCP, running it in real-time? Forget it!


Out of curiosity, do you know anything about editing DSLR footage? Do you know about the different types of compression and how they work with editing software? Do you know about transcoding to ProRes or other formats?

If you don't, you should look into learning about all that first. You can't just pull in DSLR footage and expect it to work. It's not the same as shooting regular video. You have to know what you're doing or else you won't be able to edit smoothly.

A7

Edit: Just so we're clear... you may very well have issues with your Mac. You definitely should get it looked at. I'm just saying, even on the best of systems running perfectly, you won't be able to edit if you don't have an understanding of DSLR editing.


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## kelman (Sep 25, 2010)

I would get on the phone to apple and talk to an online rep who may tell you to go get it replaced. might have better luck.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

a7mc said:


> Out of curiosity, do you know anything about editing DSLR footage? Do you know about the different types of compression and how they work with editing software? Do you know about transcoding to ProRes or other formats?
> 
> If you don't, you should look into learning about all that first. You can't just pull in DSLR footage and expect it to work. It's not the same as shooting regular video. You have to know what you're doing or else you won't be able to edit smoothly.
> 
> ...


Yes, I'm well versed in all that stuff. It's not the problem


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

kelman said:


> I would get on the phone to apple and talk to an online rep who may tell you to go get it replaced. might have better luck.


Do they ship you a new one and have you ship back the old one, like with iphones?


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## kelman (Sep 25, 2010)

probably not, maybe have you go to a store have it checked out with the intention of replacement though, hard to say until you call


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

Thanks for the all the advice.


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## tendim (Apr 6, 2004)

It's posts like this that make me happy I'm still with a rock solid G5 Quad under 10.5.8.


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## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

tendim said:


> It's posts like this that make me happy I'm still with a rock solid G5 Quad under 10.5.8.


It might be solid, but it sure is obsolete


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## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

imachungry, nobody seems to have asked the (to me) most obvious question - how much RAM do you have installed?

Video apps are notorious for needing lots - as does Photoshop, though you don't seem to be using that.

The complete machine specs, along with remaining space on your HD would all help.

Not saying that there isn't something wrong with your machine, but it's hard to judge when all we know is that it's a Macbook Pro from the fall of 2010. 

Also, Apple will not replace anything until you take it in to be looked at - and even then, they're far more likely to repair something than do an outright exchange, so don't go in expecting or even demanding that, as it rarely happens, unless the machine is brand new, within the first few days of purchase. My first G5 suffered from thermal overruns in its first 36 hours at home and it went right back - with the log files to support it, along with all the web forum postings I'd found on the issue, which at the time was still fairly unknown to Apple store employees. However, I had no trouble convincing them to replace it at that point. But several months on, I'd probably have had to wait for a logic board replacement with those same symptoms. 

There are a number of things that could be causing the problems you're seeing; it may not be the hardware at all.

But do let us know the specs, and then we can go from there with suggestions.

BTW - persistent kernel panics can be caused by bad RAM/incompatible RAM. And a host of other things...Resolving Kernel Panics

When do you typically see kernel panics? Is there any pattern to them? They're not, or certainly shouldn't be, common occurrences, so if you're seeing them often, there is definitely something wrong and chances are, it's related to the general slowness of your system as well. My experience with the last generation of MBPs (a friend has one) is that they're definitely NOT slow!


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

FCP for sure needs to have the RAM maxed out.


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

Any 2010 MBP would have 4GB of RAM included stock. 

That frequent of Kernel panics means (IMHO) that something's wrong hardware-wise, but I'm sorry to say, that it's your issue for not getting it checked out sooner. You could have been living without KP's for months if you had just booked a genius bar Appt (or local AASP appointment) after the first week or so of the problems. I've edited with FCP on a G4 eMac and not had that many issues!

Apple's policy is not to replace machines unless the same part fails three times (ie: Yous Hard Drive needs to be replaced three times, or your DVD-RW goes three times in a row). 99.9% sure they'll just fix your machine, rather than give you a new one.

Regardless, this issue definitely needs to be diagnosed ASAP, and resolved, so you can at least *feel* like you have a nice new machine (and likely new RAM and/or Logic Board?) if only 'cause it stops KP-ing all the time.


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## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

fyrefly said:


> Apple's policy is not to replace machines unless the same part fails three times (ie: Yous Hard Drive needs to be replaced three times, or your DVD-RW goes three times in a row). 99.9% sure they'll just fix your machine, rather than give you a new one.


This is not true. There's no fixed policy regarding machine replacements. It's up to the discretion of the Genius, or the Customer Relations phone rep.

As a general rule, it's 3 major parts - not 3 of the same part.


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## The G3 Man (Oct 7, 2008)

imachungry said:


> Bought a new Macbook Pro in late fall. Supposed to be the best that Apple has to offer in a laptop at that time.
> 
> Aside from the fact that Apple released a refresh just a few months later (GRRRRR), the machine I bought is plagued with beachballs, and can't even edit a simple movie in iMovie, let alone Final Cut Pro. The fan runs over the simplest load, and I find myself knashing my teeth at the crappy quality of iMovie and iPhoto's latest versions. So damned slow.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a casual newage Apple machine. No suprises there.


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## jellotor (Feb 22, 2008)

I'd lean towards bad memory if it was me. With kernel panics and beach balls it seems like poor performance (of the apps) is a symptom of stability problems.

I don't see how a brand new MBP would choke running FCP (7, I assume?) when my old Core Duo MBP with 2GB RAM runs it sufficiently to do simple edits of ProRes material off an external drive.

As to your problems with the speed of importing footage into iMovie from iPhoto...do you do a complete backup of your card before transferring? When I shoot P2 media, I back up the entire, write-protected card to a hard drive (or two) before I ingest. Granted, I'm using FCP's L&T, not iMovie, but perhaps your bottleneck there is trying to copy data off your card *and* transcode at the same time?


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

John Clay said:


> It might be solid, but it sure is obsolete


and slower than a modern mini :lmao::lmao:


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

The G3 Man said:


> Sounds like a casual newage Apple machine. No suprises there.


yes. totally right. now put your head back in the sand and continue watching the world pass you by


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

The G3 Man said:


> Sounds like a casual newage


what exactly does this mean?

is it anything like easy listening?


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## The G3 Man (Oct 7, 2008)

broad said:


> yes. totally right. now put your head back in the sand and continue watching the world pass you by


Nah, I'll just stick to my real computer, and laugh at angry mac users and their toys.


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## The G3 Man (Oct 7, 2008)

i-rui said:


> what exactly does this mean?
> 
> is it anything like easy listening?


Recent, after apple went to ****.


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## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

The G3 Man said:


> Nah, I'll just stick to my real computer, and laugh at angry mac users and their toys.


DNFTT.


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## The G3 Man (Oct 7, 2008)

Paddy said:


> DNFTT.


The Art of Trolling: Yahoo Answers, Chatroullette, Omegle

iTroll.

-MMF


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

The G3 Man said:


> Recent, after apple went to ****.


Issues, have we?


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## tendim (Apr 6, 2004)

John Clay said:


> It might be solid, but it sure is obsolete





Broad said:


> and slower than a modern mini :lmao::lmao:


Laugh as y'all will, but for my specific tasks it is plenty fast.  It comes down to what a user needs, not what the world tells them they need.

Keep in mind that the majority of "speed" is lost on the OS, not the hardware. When I had an 8500, things took on average about 30% less time under Linux than Mac OS. I love Mac's, but the newest OS demands the newest hardware to be good - no surprises there!


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## thadley (Jul 8, 2008)

I'd get to the Apple Store ASAP. KPs should not be happening, period. Any time I had KPs it was a symptom of something seriously wrong (bad memory at one point). This could also relate to poor performance, as someone said above.


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## johnnyspade (Aug 24, 2007)

I think this is just a hardware issue, or a problem with your installed memory. It happens. and it happens on all computers from time to time, be they Mac or PC. Just take it in, get it fixed, and end your frustration.

I have a 13" MPB running 2GB RAM that's a couple of years old and I can edit and crunch 1080p video files on it. It takes a bit of time to render out but I expect that. No beach balls though, unless I bang all the keys at the same time. You're not doing that, are you?


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

The G3 Man said:


> Nah, I'll just stick to my real computer, and laugh at angry mac users and their toys.


:lmao::lmao:

evan pitts is that you?


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

broad said:


> :lmao::lmao:
> 
> evan pitts is that you?


Naw G3 is just his grandchild.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

he sounds like he has been huffing the same glue haha


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2011)

eMacMan said:


> FCP for sure needs to have the RAM maxed out.


Actually not so much. FCP can only use a max of about 2.5G of ram. Annoying, but true.

To the OP: Are you transcoding your video before importing it into iMovie or letting iMove do the heavy lifting for you? As pointed out earlier, the H.264 video that most modern cameras use is really not meant to be edited directly and should be transcoded into a more editing friendly codec before you import into your projects (like Apple ProRes or Apple Intermediate Codec). Those high bitrate videos will beachball pretty much any machine when you're trying to edit with that stuff natively, even my 8-core (16 thread) MacPro 4/ 4TB of RAID and 24G of ram...

That said kernel panics are not a normal thing. I'd try a clean install of the OS with just the basics installed for apps and no updates and see what happens. If you still get kernel panics it's likely a hardware issue and you should be able to get it repaired or replaced as they deem necessary.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

mguertin said:


> Actually not so much. FCP can only use a max of about 2.5G of ram. Annoying, but true.
> 
> To the OP: Are you transcoding your video before importing it into iMovie or letting iMove do the heavy lifting for you? As pointed out earlier, the H.264 video that most modern cameras use is really not meant to be edited directly and should be transcoded into a more editing friendly codec before you import into your projects (like Apple ProRes or Apple Intermediate Codec). Those high bitrate videos will beachball pretty much any machine when you're trying to edit with that stuff natively, even my 8-core (16 thread) MacPro 4/ 4TB of RAID and 24G of ram...
> 
> That said kernel panics are not a normal thing. I'd try a clean install of the OS with just the basics installed for apps and no updates and see what happens. If you still get kernel panics it's likely a hardware issue and you should be able to get it repaired or replaced as they deem necessary.


I would simply create a new user profile. If issues persist then it is not any preferences settings. Then try booting and working from the external clone; if problems persist you have eliminated a flakey HD as a possible cause. After that I would be on my way to the nearest AASP, ASP.

As he says, and unlike Windoze Vista, Kernel Panics are not at all normal and most often are hardware related. Be sure current projects are properly backed up as your Service Provider may want to try a nuke and pave before going ahead and searching for underlying HW issues.

At this point you have wasted far too much of your own time, it is Apples turn and job to troubleshoot.


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## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

eMacMan said:


> I would simply create a new user profile. If issues persist then it is not any preferences settings. Then try booting and working from the external clone; if problems persist you have eliminated a flakey HD as a possible cause. After that I would be on my way to the nearest AASP, ASP.
> 
> As he says, and unlike Windoze Vista, Kernel Panics are not at all normal and most often are hardware related. Be sure current projects are properly backed up as your Service Provider may want to try a nuke and pave before going ahead and searching for underlying HW issues.
> 
> At this point you have wasted far too much of your own time, it is Apples turn and job to troubleshoot.


To add to that, I would add that if the you've added RAM on your own to the original 4GB from Apple, remove that and see if the problems go away. If the only RAM in the MBP is from Apple, (either 4 or 8GB) then take it to the nearest AASP for further diagnosis if nothing else suggested here works.


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## The G3 Man (Oct 7, 2008)

screature said:


> Naw G3 is just his grandchild.




LOOOOLLL. apparently I am.

I kernel panicked my iPhone out of boredom. And wondering if it was possible.


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## jeepguy (Apr 4, 2008)

broad said:


> :lmao::lmao:
> 
> evan pitts is that you?


I haven't seen a post from evan pitts in quite awhile.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

maybe the mothership came to pick him up?


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## The G3 Man (Oct 7, 2008)

jeepguy said:


> I haven't seen a post from evan pitts in quite awhile.


He quit.


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## The G3 Man (Oct 7, 2008)

broad said:


> maybe the mothership came to pick him up?


Or he kernel panicked when he realised just how outdated he was.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

HAHAHAHA awesome. best line of the day so far


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## WestWeb (Jul 11, 2009)

A friend of mine just recently got her new MBP replaced because of kernel panics. First off, one of the phone reps tried to tell her to re-install her operating system. She made it clear she wasn't doing anything of the sort on a brand new machine that costs so much.

After that she visited a "genius" who tried the usual lame old tricks and afterwards the guy told her to re-install as well. Again she made it clear that it was a brand new machine and she shouldn't have to do anything like that. After a bit of bantering with an Apple phone rep, they agreed to replace the entire machine. Dunno if you'll have the same luck, but it is doable. 

She lives right next to the Apple store where she bought the MBP and they replaced it on site. 

BTW I love the posts above mine. It's great seeing a bunch of children pick on someone behind their back.


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

If the machine were brand new, that'd be one thing. But this machine is 6+ months old that the OP was talking about (said he bought in Fall 2010). 

If he'd looked after the kernel panics w/in the first months via the Genius Bar, Id've said they should give him a new machine as well. But 8 months in, I'm thinking that a completely replacement is pretty far from reality, unless they keep replacing stuff and it keeps KPing.


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## iLabmAn (Jan 1, 2003)

WestWeb said:


> A friend of mine just recently got her new MBP replaced because of kernel panics. First off, one of the phone reps tried to tell her to re-install her operating system. She made it clear she wasn't doing anything of the sort on a brand new machine that costs so much.
> 
> After that she visited a "genius" who tried the usual lame old tricks and afterwards the guy told her to re-install as well. Again she made it clear that it was a brand new machine and she shouldn't have to do anything like that. After a bit of bantering with an Apple phone rep, they agreed to replace the entire machine. Dunno if you'll have the same luck, but it is doable.
> 
> ...



I JUST got back from the Apple Store in Newmarket leaving my new MacBook Pro 13" to have its logic board replaced. My Macbook is the "2010" edition as discussed here:

Apple - Support - Discussions - MBP13?3 and External Monitor Problem ...

My machine was having similar symptoms as above, however the screen would just go blank instead of the yellow hues or other screen oddities. I installed the OS after resetting the PRAM, the SMC and checking permissions. Spoke to three Apple phone techs and then my free 90 Day phone service expired! Decided to take a trip to the store where I bought the Mac with my crashed Mac in hand. Sadly, the Mac Genius Dude was unable to replicate the problem, however, because of my extensive explanation, I was able to get the logic board replaced.

I get my machine back tomorrow. We'll see if the problem re-occurs.

Not happy about the machine issue, but was impressed with how well the Apple team at the store handled my situation.


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## herbapou (Apr 5, 2011)

First thing to do before you start editing with imovies is convert your stuff to .m4v using handbrake (free) If you can use the AppleTV templates. 

I have a late 2009 27" imac (i7) and i can make 2 hours long projet in imovies with no problem at all. I do i tips regarding performance.

1. Dont keep anything but your current projects in iphoto. Once you are done with you're project you can saved your raw material by exporting them to a folder. Then flush everything.

2. Dont keep old projects in imoves, anyway if you do tip #1 you wont be able since your material wont be in iphoto anymore.

By doing this I can manage 2 hours long 720p video projects and everything is fluid.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

iLabmAn said:


> Not happy about the machine issue, but was impressed with how well the Apple team at the store handled my situation.


Sometimes all you gotta do is ask!


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## Glipt (Aug 7, 2003)

My brother had his MacBook Unibody replaced 1.5 years later with a bend new (now) MacBook Pro. He had no extra AppleCare so it was 6 months out if warranty. Over the time though it had the HD and logic board replaced and a screen sealant issue fixed. All very difficult to do as he was sending it back and forth to Canada from here in the DR. He was totally shocked and surprised when he was finally able to go in person to an Apple Store and they offered to hand him a new one off the shelf.

I'm hoping for some of the same treatment myself. My iPod touch's accelerometer stopped working and my MBP has the swelling battery problem. Both happened while under warranty but as I live somewhere near the border of Haiti there is no Apple repair facility near by. I will be making a visit to an Apple Store as soon as I get back in June. In my families and friends cases Apple has always been good about fixing and or replacing things.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

i wouldn't hold your breath for a replacement unit because of a swollen battery. usually replacement units are given after several major repairs


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## iLabmAn (Jan 1, 2003)

broad said:


> i wouldn't hold your breath for a replacement unit because of a swollen battery. usually replacement units are given after several major repairs


When I was at the Apple Store the other day, there was this young boy and his dad talking with a Mac Genius about an iPod Touch. Apparently, the boy dropped his iPod, and although it worked, the bottom right hand corner was cracked. The techie asked if he backed up the data and then offered a new iPod replacement.

Wow.


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## The G3 Man (Oct 7, 2008)

iLabmAn said:


> When I was at the Apple Store the other day, there was this young boy and his dad talking with a Mac Genius about an iPod Touch. Apparently, the boy dropped his iPod, and although it worked, the bottom right hand corner was cracked. The techie asked if he backed up the data and then offered a new iPod replacement.
> 
> Wow.


I've seen that before, and actually had the same thing happen with an iPhone 3GS.

Some of the apple store employees are really decent.

-MMF


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

iLabmAn said:


> When I was at the Apple Store the other day, there was this young boy and his dad talking with a Mac Genius about an iPod Touch. Apparently, the boy dropped his iPod, and although it worked, the bottom right hand corner was cracked. The techie asked if he backed up the data and then offered a new iPod replacement.
> 
> Wow.


there is a pretty hefty difference between giving out a "remanufactured" ipod and replacing an entire computer. just sayin...


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## Glipt (Aug 7, 2003)

broad said:


> i wouldn't hold your breath for a replacement unit because of a swollen battery. usually replacement units are given after several major repairs



Not expecting a new computer. Just hoping not to have to fork over for a new battery. In my experience people seem to have been treated well at the Yorkdale Apple Store.


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## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

How old is your MBP, Glipt? If it's fairly new, then you may have better luck getting it replaced for free. Also, it's always a good idea to document any problems while your machine is still under warranty (by calling Apple) even if you cannot get the machine to them. The portables are covered by a worldwide warranty, so they might have shipped you a battery (asking you to send the old one in) if you'd called. 

It would appear that the swollen battery issue is still going on (though it seems that most are older machines) and Apple is replacing some of them, though no longer all of them.

Swollen and bent out battery in MacBook Pro - MacRumors Forums (see last few posts from last summer)

Back when this issue first occurred (2006/2007) Apple did extend the warranty on the batteries, but that program has now ended, so it's really the luck of the draw on whether or not you get a helpful Genius or not.


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## iLabmAn (Jan 1, 2003)

Just got my MacBook Pro 13" back from the Apple Store in Newmarket. They fixed it on the day I brought it in and had it ready the next day! Wow. We'll see how things go with respects to freezing over the next few days.

Would be nice to end the real freezing out there and start Spring...


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

Thanks for the all advice and crank. 

I'm taking it in with full espresso in my veins. Kidding. Gonna' see how honey and bile work with a Genius bar rep. 

I'll report back.


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

Let us know how it goes!


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## imactheknife (Aug 7, 2003)

John Clay said:


> It might be solid, but it sure is obsolete


way to make someone feel good about their choice of machine...nice..tptptptp


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

I'm plagued with kernel panics every few days as well, I've tried just about everything including reinstalling the OS, everything.

It seems to be safari mostly.


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

i've had 1 KP on my 2010 mbp. It was while surfing with safari

I've also noticed that playing flash videos in safari results in dropped frames. playing the same video in firefox is ok. (however i have a memory leak with firefox, so i rather not use it as my default browser on the mbp....grrrr...)


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

groovetube said:


> I'm plagued with kernel panics every few days as well, I've tried just about everything including reinstalling the OS, everything.
> 
> It seems to be safari mostly.


Kernel Panics are not a normal part of the Mac experience. If you have done a clean minimal OS install then it is time to start looking at Hardware. 

Weak batteries if you are using BT, KB and Mouse. Try going to USB versions, if problem clears up you know the cause relates to Blue Tooth. 

Disconnect everything except KB and Mouse. If this resolves the issue reconnect one at a time until you find the culprit.

Perhaps bad RAM or bad RAM slot. Be sure RAM is fully seated. If you have upped the original RAM try putting the original RAM back in and see if issue persists. We used to run just one RAM slot at a time to test for bad RAM slots, may not be possible with computers that require matched sets. I have not been keeping track of that sort of thing and will let Lars or someone more knowledgeable confirm or deny the accuracy of that.

After that it's time to take advantage of AppleCare and let the Apple Techs do any further trouble shooting.


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## Dr T (May 16, 2009)

eMacMan said:


> Kernel Panics are not a normal part of the Mac experience....


Okay, I have seen a bazillion references now to kernel panics.

Being as I am too lazy to ask Mr Google what a kernel panic is, maybe you lot that go on about it a lot could tell us, why should we be so afraid of same? What indeed is a kernel panic?


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Should answer your question. While they can sometimes caused by software, issue is more likely to be Hardware related.

About "You need to restart your computer" (kernel panic) messages


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## Dr T (May 16, 2009)

eMacMan said:


> Should answer your question. ...]


Yup, that does do so. Thanks.

I can now affirm that I have also experienced a kernel panic Except I found it quite a bit of fun, wading though the many languages...

Hay, wait, if I experienced a kernel panic, that means I should panic!! Okay, but first I will get another cup of tea..


----------



## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Dr T said:


> Yup, that does do so. Thanks.
> 
> I can now affirm that I have also experienced a kernel panic Except I found it quite a bit of fun, wading though the many languages...
> 
> Hay, wait, if I experienced a kernel panic, that means I should panic!! Okay, but first I will get another cup of tea..


Does sometimes happen. Typically about once a year for me. If it becomes part of your routine you definitely need to make the effort to track down the cure.


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## Dr T (May 16, 2009)

eMacMan said:


> Does sometimes happen. Typically about once a year for me. If it becomes part of your routine you definitely need to make the effort to track down the cure.


So noted, thanks for the advice. Except I don't much remember what I had for breakfast today, so the chances I will remember the last time I experienced a kernel panic on one of my computers are slight. Let's just hope it hasn't been in the last year or so ... Let this be a lesson to the rest of you. Keep a time and date stamped record of your kernel panic events!


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

Dr T said:


> So noted, thanks for the advice. Except I don't much remember what I had for breakfast today, so the chances I will remember the last time I experienced a kernel panic on one of my computers are slight. Let's just hope it hasn't been in the last year or so ... Let this be a lesson to the rest of you. Keep a time and date stamped record of your kernel panic events!


Hah. No, it's more like if you *can* remember the last few times you had a kernel panic (as in they were in the last few days) than there's probably something bigger going on than a minor software glitch.


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## The G3 Man (Oct 7, 2008)

Well, aslong as your iPhone isn't kernal panicing you should be fine right?


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## imactheknife (Aug 7, 2003)

The G3 Man said:


> Well, aslong as your iPhone isn't kernal panicing you should be fine right?


the troll came back....


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

Finally got to the Genius Bar and they changed the hard drive right away, no questions. He checked my logs and said there was repeated problems with the drive and swapped it. 

Am I grateful? Nope. It should have worked in the first place. Should I have swapped it early on? Yup. But then I have a busy life. 

We'll see how this latest drive does.

If I added up all the time I have spent caring and feeding faulty Mac products over the years, I'd have another life. But then, you say, what's the alternative? 

Perhaps working on a loom.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

imachungry said:


> Am I grateful? Nope. It should have worked in the first place.


Sh$t happens. You should be grateful they helped you out at no charge with your warranty. Not every product in the world, not limited to Apple products, leaves the production line flawless.


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## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

Good to know that you got it resolved, imachungry - and that it was something as simple as the HD. (Not Apple's fault, really - as they don't manufacture HDs and EVERY HD manufacturer has a percentage of failures, some worse than others) What drive was it, out of curiosity?


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

Lars said:


> Sh$t happens. You should be grateful they helped you out at no charge with your warranty. Not every product in the world, not limited to Apple products, leaves the production line flawless.


Yes, I should be *grateful* that they fixed an obviously faulty (from day one) $3,000 laptop under warranty. And I should be lashed a thousand times because I expected it to work properly out of the box, and had the temerity to actually fix it myself and make it work. 

In fact, my experience with the Genius Bar was so positive that I'm willing to forgive *them* for selling me a piece of **** that didn't work the way it was supposed to. 

Get a grip.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

Paddy said:


> Good to know that you got it resolved, imachungry - and that it was something as simple as the HD. (Not Apple's fault, really - as they don't manufacture HDs and EVERY HD manufacturer has a percentage of failures, some worse than others) What drive was it, out of curiosity?


Thanks. It was a Hitachi 500GB SATA made in Thailand if that means anything. 

I hope the new release of Final Cut Pro at $300 will help me forget even more.


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## imactheknife (Aug 7, 2003)

you sound like one of those people who get pissed about the battery being a POS and blame Apple for. I think it's hilarious when the battery isn't even made by them so how is it that it is Apple's fault? I mean seriously. Hard drives are known to fail, especially the 2.5" drives. 

Oh well, glad to see it was replaced...


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

imachungry said:


> Yes, I should be *grateful* that they fixed an obviously faulty (from day one) $3,000 laptop under warranty. And I should be lashed a thousand times because I expected it to work properly out of the box, and had the temerity to actually fix it myself and make it work.
> 
> In fact, my experience with the Genius Bar was so positive that I'm willing to forgive *them* for selling me a piece of **** that didn't work the way it was supposed to.
> 
> Get a grip.


testify!


----------



## Guest (Apr 15, 2011)

imachungry said:


> Yes, I should be *grateful* that they fixed an obviously faulty (from day one) $3,000 laptop under warranty. And I should be lashed a thousand times because I expected it to work properly out of the box, and had the temerity to actually fix it myself and make it work.
> 
> In fact, my experience with the Genius Bar was so positive that I'm willing to forgive *them* for selling me a piece of **** that didn't work the way it was supposed to.
> 
> Get a grip.


How were they supposed to fix it, or for that matter even know it was broken since you just got around to taking it in now? I know that if it was my $3000 laptop and it wasn't working properly and it was just a matter of taking it to, oh, I dunno ... ANY Apple authorized service centre worldwide ... I would have taken it in a long, long time ago instead of moaning and complaining about how much it sucked.

Just sayin'


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)




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## Tech Elementz (Mar 15, 2011)

Why didn't you just get an iMac or Mac Pro if you wanted to edit. Sometimes, even if a Macbook Pro has good specifications for editing, it is still a laptop...It is not the full piece of equipment.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

Tech Elementz said:


> Why didn't you just get an iMac or Mac Pro if you wanted to edit. Sometimes, even if a Macbook Pro has good specifications for editing, it is still a laptop...It is not the full piece of equipment.


Because I need a laptop, that's why. I shoot and travel. And the benchmarks for the MB Pro are very good when it comes to editing. 

The problem is that mine is _faulty_, not its specs.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

mguertin said:


> How were they supposed to fix it, or for that matter even know it was broken since you just got around to taking it in now? I know that if it was my $3000 laptop and it wasn't working properly and it was just a matter of taking it to, oh, I dunno ... ANY Apple authorized service centre worldwide ... I would have taken it in a long, long time ago instead of moaning and complaining about how much it sucked.
> 
> Just sayin'


Because life happens, that's why. And for many of us who rely on our computers for our livelihoods it's a major hassle to be without a machine, not to mention the fact I'm loathe to hand over my machine for privacy reasons. A faulty machine means much more than the breezy return you speak of. Not quite that simple. 

I have every right to be moan and bitch about a faulty product. When I got it fixed is irrelevant. Ever driven a car that isn't working properly because you're too busy to get it serviced? It's called modern life, holler!

This is the second $3k MB Pro that has had a faulty drive. Most annoyingly, it isn't immediately apparent that the drive is the problem.


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

I think it's reasonable to bitch and moan about it, no one likes being put in that spot.

But it's unreasonable to think that Apple (or any company) is somehow immune to having something break in their product. That's just the reality of the situation, and is also part of "modern life".

The real measure of Apple is how they reacted to knowing your macbook pro was faulty, which seemed very quick and efficient.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

i-rui said:


> I think it's reasonable to bitch and moan about it, no one likes being put in that spot.
> 
> But it's unreasonable to think that Apple (or any company) is somehow immune to having something break in their product. That's just the reality of the situation, and is also part of "modern life".
> 
> The real measure of Apple is how they reacted to knowing your macbook pro was faulty, which seemed very quick and efficient.


I suspect if you had two MacBook Pros suffer the same fate as mine, you'd have the opposite opinion, which is to say, mine. 

Because they fixed it quickly doesn't quite make up for the aggro of having two very pricey laptops fail based on ****box parts inside. Anyway, apparently I'm not attached to Apple in quite the same way some of you are.


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## imactheknife (Aug 7, 2003)

No, I would imagine you would be P.O ed at any company selling a product that has a hard drive fail. I would be pissed, but just not to the same extent.

The Macbook Pro is still not a $3000 dollar POS because it has a bad hard drive. It's just hard drives are known to fail, maybe not on a new machine, but it can happen. I would be pissed and likely to call the Macbook a POS If the Screen went, or the logic board went on two different machines. 

But hey, each to their own...sorry you had two POS macbook pros. I am happy using my 1 year old macbook pro that I bought for $100 bucks that was water damaged, but still works. The keyboard needs repacing, which is a lot of money and time, but I don't view it as a P.O.S, although it would only be a $100 dollar P.O.S


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)




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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

imachungry said:


> I suspect if you had two MacBook Pros suffer the same fate as mine, you'd have the opposite opinion, which is to say, mine.
> 
> Because they fixed it quickly doesn't quite make up for the aggro of having two very pricey laptops fail based on ****box parts inside. Anyway, apparently I'm not attached to Apple in quite the same way some of you are.


Read my post again. I said it's reasonable to bitch about it. No one likes to be put in that spot. 

But what you (still) fail to come to grips with is that parts sometimes fail in products. For every company. In every industry. Nothing is perfect. 

2 years ago I actually had a troublesome Macbook Pro which Apple tried to repair 3 times, and eventually replaced with a new machine. Their responses were always quick and I felt they were doing the best that they possibly could to make me a happy customer.

I bought an LG 50" Plasma TV on boxing day that gave me issues since day one. I am STILL trying to resolve the issue with them after 4 months.

THAT is the difference between Apple and other companies. Apple (in general) will correct their mistakes quickly and to the user's satisfaction. I honestly don't know what more you could expect. If you find a company that has never in it's history, ever had an issue with one of it's products please let me know.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Let's be a bit more succinct.

The difference between a good company and a bad one is what they do when things do not go perfectly.

Once you stopped expecting Apple to read your mind, they stepped up to the plate and resolved the issue.


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

Of course it sucks that your $3K machine had it's HD tank. But I would also suggest that if you can spend $3000 on a MBP for professional purposes, you could spend $100 on a bootable backup drive.

Then, a quick boot into the backup would have shown that it was the HD (one of the first things to go in any machine) and after a quick swap (a Unibody HD replacement takes 5 mins) you'd been back going and could have had a 100% working machine till you had time to get the faulty HD replaced by Apple.


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## iLabmAn (Jan 1, 2003)

Well kids, I've been using my MacBook Pro 13" for over two weeks now with NO issues. I can't even replicate the problems I had before the logic board replacement. 

Again, great service at the Apple dealer and impressed with the Genius Bar team. When one person couldn't offer a solution, he brought in others to troubleshoot as a TEAM. Love it.

So, the logic board replacement seemed to be the trick in my case. 

Be honest with Apple.
Be courteous.
Be clear on the issues and persistent.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

eMacMan said:


> Let's be a bit more succinct.
> 
> The difference between a good company and a bad one is what they do when things do not go perfectly.
> 
> Once you stopped expecting Apple to read your mind, they stepped up to the plate and resolved the issue.


They didn't step up to the plate. They fixed an obviously faulty product. It's called customer retention. One that cost me a tremendous amount of time and energy, not once but twice in the last three years. This thread is simply a reflection of my frustration, and ironically, I get attacked because I wasn't on top of it the way some of you perennial fanboys would have been. Good for you. I actually have a life, and buy Apple products because I don't have to be a geek, and 100% of you would be frustrated if you spent $5 or $6k on top of the line laptops only to have them drive you nuts out of the box. 

I really do hate this place sometimes. The endless fascistic salute to Apple products. It's really tiresome. I like their products generally, but the allergy to criticism of any kind is just too much sometimes. 

Done.


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

imachungry said:


> I really do hate this place sometimes.


The answer to that one is really quite simple........


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

imachungry said:


> Bought a new Macbook Pro in late fall. Supposed to be the best that Apple has to offer in a laptop at that time.
> 
> Aside from the fact that Apple released a refresh just a few months later (GRRRRR), the machine I bought is plagued with beachballs, and can't even edit a simple movie in iMovie, let alone Final Cut Pro. The fan runs over the simplest load, and I find myself knashing my teeth at the crappy quality of iMovie and iPhoto's latest versions. So damned slow.
> 
> ...





imachungry said:


> Finally got to the Genius Bar and they changed the hard drive right away, no questions. He checked my logs and said there was repeated problems with the drive and swapped it.
> 
> Am I grateful? Nope. It should have worked in the first place. Should I have swapped it early on? Yup. But then I have a busy life.
> 
> ...


You're acting like everyone else is being unreasonable. There isn't a single business that exists with a 100% success rate. Expecting such is completely unrealistic. Yeah, it sucks when things don't work out of the box but that's what warranties are for.

The time wasted is on you. Sorry. Most would have gone in a lot sooner if their time (and money) was _that_ valuable to them.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I've personally had an SE, two Performas, a Quicksilver, two iMacs, an eMac, two Powerbooks, three MBPs and a Mini over the years and I have never had a hard drive failure. Ditto for all the various Apple machines I used at work for 15 years. My son on the other hand, has a 2008 MacBook that I picked up yesterday from the Apple store with its third new HD in 20 months. I've been lucky, him not so much, but we're not complaining as Applecare came through every time, including replacing his cracked casing as well while they had it.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

eMacMan said:


> Let's be a bit more succinct.
> 
> The difference between a good company and a bad one is what they do when things do not go perfectly.


This.


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## Digikid (Jun 22, 2010)

Lars said:


> This.



Let me put that in PROPER "speak".

He agrees with you.


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## imactheknife (Aug 7, 2003)

it's not even Apple Fanboi attitude coming out. I could care less if you were using an acer. Calling the entire product crap is a bit much. But hey, better luck with another company if that will make things all better for you. Buy a macbook pro with an SSD if thats money well spent.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

eMacMan said:


> Let's be a bit more succinct.
> 
> The difference between a good company and a bad one is what they do when things do not go perfectly.
> 
> Once you stopped expecting Apple to read your mind, they stepped up to the plate and resolved the issue.





imactheknife said:


> it's not even Apple Fanboi attitude coming out. I could care less if you were using an acer. Calling the entire product crap is a bit much. But hey, better luck with another company if that will make things all better for you. Buy a macbook pro with an SSD if thats money well spent.


I've never been called an Apple Fanboy before. Partly because I am a way too old and partly because I have been quite vociferous in my opinions on Spotlight and iTunes 9, both suck big time.

Still a good company makes it right when when a product has an issue and that's exactly what Apple did in this case and many others that made their way to this forum. 

I've bought five new Apple computers over the years. Three for me, one for a business and one for a relative. Four of them had no problems. My original eMac did suffer from the infamous Raster Shift issue and Apple did make it right, replacing the computer when repair attempts failed. Was it frustrating yes, but the frustration lasted three weeks, while the replacement computer served me well for seven years.


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## imactheknife (Aug 7, 2003)

eMacMan said:


> I've never been called an Apple Fanboy before. Partly because I am a way too old and partly because I have been quite vociferous in my opinions on Spotlight and iTunes 9, both suck big time.
> 
> Still a good company makes it right when when a product has an issue and that's exactly what Apple did in this case and many others that made their way to this forum.
> 
> I've bought five new Apple computers over the years. Three for me, one for a business and one for a relative. Four of them had no problems. My original eMac did suffer from the infamous Raster Shift issue and Apple did make it right, replacing the computer when repair attempts failed. Was it frustrating yes, but the frustration lasted three weeks, while the replacement computer served me well for seven years.


The real question remains though, was your emac a $3000 piece of *****, just a piece of ***** or just electronic that can have problems arise for no apparent reason, and no matter of the make??


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

imactheknife said:


> The real question remains though, was your emac a $3000 piece of *****, just a piece of ***** or just electronic that can have problems arise for no apparent reason, and no matter of the make??


$1500 electronic marvel with a big league design flaw. Point is Apple made it right. They replaced about 90% of the guts twice and when that did not do the trick I got a new computer. They ordered parts based on phone discussions and always had it in and out in one day. Sadly the issue did not show up in the first week or they would have called it DOA and replaced it immediately. They did this not just for me but for many thousands of other eMac buyers.

The frustrating part was not being able to trust that my data was safe over the period of time that I had problems, but I did develop a sound back-up strategy that continues to work for me.


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## mac_geek (May 14, 2005)

So... How is that darned computer working after some time with the new HD? Is it fixed?


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## Asherek (Aug 30, 2009)

imachungry said:


> They didn't step up to the plate. They fixed an obviously faulty product. It's called customer retention. One that cost me a tremendous amount of time and energy, not once but twice in the last three years.


I don't think I can recall a single mass-consumer product that didn't have some type of issue or another. $3000 is a lot for a laptop, but you're acting as if this is supposed to be the $100,000 stereo system you buy, where absolutely everything is ridiculously pristine. It's not. It's like buying a Lexus (not a Lamborghini like you think you're getting) and expecting it to be absolutely perfect. Ideally, it should be, but it's not always going to be the case. 

What matters is the company's level of support and willingness to fix the problem, which, from the sounds of what you're saying, they stepped up to the plate. The only person responsible here for tremendous time and energy is *you*. Being unable to make a simple trip to the Apple Store is your problem, not Apple's. 



> This thread is simply a reflection of my frustration, and ironically, I get attacked because I wasn't on top of it the way some of you perennial fanboys would have been. Good for you. I actually have a life,


I had some initial sympathy for you, but here's where I lost all of it. Actually have a life? Well golly-gee for you sir, I've got a pretty goddamn well-rounded life and I still have no problem finding time to take care of stuff (i.e. going to a store to get a replacement product) when it's necessary for it to be done.



> and buy Apple products because I don't have to be a geek, and 100% of you would be frustrated if you spent $5 or $6k on top of the line laptops only to have them drive you nuts out of the box.


I buy Apple products because I like the build quality, not because you don't have to be a geek. I also know when to recognize when an issue is not the fault of the company I'm buying it from.



> I really do hate this place sometimes. The endless fascistic salute to Apple products. It's really tiresome. I like their products generally, but the allergy to criticism of any kind is just too much sometimes.


Shocking news: A site designed and frequented by Apple fans disagrees with your ridiculously skewed and asinine opinion of the company. It would be one thing if you had a genuine issue with Apple, but you really don't. It's just very unfortunate that you are unable to see that.

One also begs the question why you stay here if you hate this place.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Hmmm... 103+ posts now, and it will probably continue...

What's the ehmac record and how long can a thread go???

I have a feeling that an older chas_m post broke the record.


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## Digikid (Jun 22, 2010)

Pass the popcorn please. This SHOW is getting very interesting.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2011)

pm-r said:


> Hmmm... 103+ posts now, and it will probably continue...
> 
> What's the ehmac record and how long can a thread go???
> 
> I have a feeling that an older chas_m post broke the record.


Not even close ... and I don't think it's possible for this issue to be beaten on for that long .. take a look at some of the threads in the everything else area for huge numbers of posts ...


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

... :d


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

Just to update: 

Now I'm on my second hard drive failure in just six months, and the first one was replaced last month. 

No doubt people here will have something clever to say, as did The Apple Store people, but for $3000,00 I got a lemon that keeps on taking. 

The kicker: The CSR at The Apple Store in The Eaton Centre tried to sell me extended Apple Care for a machine that never worked properly in the first place. Orwellian. This after he told me that there was something very wrong with my machine independent of the drive, but he couldn't give me a new one. 

Let the rationalizing and blaming of me begin.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

imachungry said:


> Just to update:
> 
> Now I'm on my second hard drive failure in just six months, and the first one was replaced last month.
> 
> ...



With such a comment coming from the "CSR" I'd sure be calling Apple's Customer Support and relay all your troubles once again if you haven't done so.

Did they give any indication of what the "very wrong" stuff just might be or why they said so???

And as for Extended Apple Care, I think you may have just a few months left and I don't know of many portable Mac users who have not purchased it and I don't know of ANY who actually regretted purchasing it. Just a thought and I'd sure be calling someone higher up at Apple!!!


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2011)

I'd second the placing a call to Apple. If that doesn't work, call back and talk to someone else and if that doesn't work ask directly to get the case escalated. Tell them that the CSR told you that they felt that there was something very wrong with it (beyond what was being replaced already) and that they said they still couldn't replace it -- you might get better results that way. Worst case you're out some time spent on the phone.

I've had problematic hardware in the past that finally got resolved after it was escalated to executive services (not positive of the name but they handle exactly this sort of circumstance). In the past I've actually ended up getting quite an upgraded machine to replace the lemon after having to jump through all the hoops.


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

mguertin said:


> I'd second the placing a call to Apple. If that doesn't work, call back and talk to someone else and if that doesn't work ask directly to get the case escalated. Tell them that the CSR told you that they felt that there was something very wrong with it (beyond what was being replaced already) and that they said they still couldn't replace it -- you might get better results that way. Worst case you're out some time spent on the phone.
> 
> I've had problematic hardware in the past that finally got resolved after it was escalated to executive services (not positive of the name but they handle exactly this sort of circumstance). In the past I've actually ended up getting quite an upgraded machine to replace the lemon after having to jump through all the hoops.


+1. Call Apple directly. Explain the issues you've had. Even if they don't replace the current one, at the very least you may get them to commit to replace the machine if it suffers yet another breakdown.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

And maybe use some other and possibly a better local Apple approved support place rather than the Apple Store in The Eaton Centre, that actually treats and resolves their Mac customer's problems better???

It's an impressive looking store I'll have to admit, but that doesn't always mean it has the best service and/or problem resolutions.


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## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

I just reread this entire thread, since I'd forgotten exactly what the ACTUAL issue was in the first place. It was a failing/faulty Hitachi hard drive, which Apple replaced under warranty. A month later, the hard drive has apparently failed again.

While it may indeed be possible that there is something wrong with the APPLE hardware (as opposed to the Hitachi or whatever drive they put in to replace the original) it is also quite possible that you've just been unlucky and had two drives fail in a row. It does happen, you know. If you don't believe me, try reading the drive reviews at newegg.com where people have ordered multiple drives at the same time and had more than one in the batch fail in a very short time. 

Again - it's hardly something that you can blame Apple for! They will indeed replace your drive again, and you should point out to them (of course) that the new drive only lasted a month and would they please put the entire machine through the hardware tests and do whatever testing they can to make sure that it is NOT something causing the drive(s) to fail repeatedly. I don't think you can reasonably expect them to replace the entire MBP at this point. If they offer, great, but don't expect it. And if the new drive failed in the same way as the old (repeated kernel panics, very slow etc.) then you'll have more of a case for something other than the drive being the problem. If it failed in a different way (failed to boot one day, repeated freezing followed by failure to boot, impossible to repair with any disk utilities including Disk Warrior etc.) then it's perhaps more likely that this was a simple coincidence and you got a bad drive second time around too.

Further, you should definitely get AppleCare. If something truly is wrong with this MBP and it fails a day after your one year warranty expires, you're going to be facing paying for any repairs yourself. If nothing else goes wrong, that's great, but you're protected if something does. I am no advocate of extended warranties - I only buy them for laptops and iMacs; the former because lugging them around tends to leave them vulnerable to more issues AND they're hard to work on, and the latter because they're hard to work on. 

Hard drives fail. They're the component most likely to fail in any computer. They have moving parts (unless they're solid state...) and they're built to exacting tolerances. You might want to read this article: Today's Generation hard drive - Long Term Reliability


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I feel for you, I've never bought a MacBook,
Just my Mac Mini and My iPhone 4 for recent purchases,
My old 12" iBook 1.33 is still chugging along strong, Why replace it.

Hope everything works out for you.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Paddy said:


> ... ... ... Hard drives fail. They're the component most likely to fail in any computer. They have moving parts (unless they're solid state...) and they're built to exacting tolerances. You might want to read this article: Today's Generation hard drive - Long Term Reliability


That's got to be a pretty old article referring to PATA/IDE drives, but I guess it still holds true with the latest mechanical SATA disk/platter drives.


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## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

pm-r said:


> That's got to be a pretty old article referring to PATA/IDE drives, but I guess it still holds true with the latest mechanical SATA disk/platter drives.


Nope - it's from December 15, 2009. And the last drive pictured is a newer SATA drive. 

Hard disk drive failure rates and implications for backups | King Computer Sydney Network Engineers IT Blog

From 2007: Study: Hard Drive Failure Rates Much Higher Than Makers Estimate | PCWorld


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Sorry Paddy, I missed the SATA drive at the bottom.

A very similar model to the WD500AAKS WD Caviar SE16 that died a few months ago in my 24" mid 2007 iMac. But it provided a lot longer service of almost four years, and got replaced with a 1 TB WD Black drive.

Meanwhile the original IDE/ATA drives in our 1998 Power Macintosh G3 300 Desktop and our Power Macintosh G4 1.25 (MDD 2003) still keep running.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

the chances of your "computer" (ie everything other than the hard drive) doing something to kill hard drives is microscopic. 

more likely is that you got two bunk hard drives. it happens. 

BTW the person you talked to who told you there was something "very wrong" with your machine probably a)has no idea what they're talking about and b)has never worked on your machine. 

anyone who has ever worked on a computer before and understands the intricacies of a system would never make such a stupid blanket statement


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

imachungry said:


> Just to update:
> 
> Now I'm on my second hard drive failure in just six months, and the first one was replaced last month.
> 
> ...


The only "clever" thing I'd have to say is: Don't wait. Follow mguertin's suggestion. It could very well be you have a lemon on your hands.


----------



## ssent1 (Sep 3, 2005)

If you have a lemon, track as many details as you can about the situation. 

Apple's been very responsive to any issues that I've had. Most of their CSR's seem competent –at least compared to other brands. Keep calling until you get someone that really understands your issues. 

If you can refer to Apple bulletins — you'll have to sharpen your Googling to find the good stuff — you'll get a lot farther faster. Plus, having as much evidence that others experience the same thing helps you escalate to senior CSRs faster. 

That's been my experience. 
Hope this helps.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

ssent1 said:


> If you have a lemon, track as many details as you can about the situation.
> 
> Apple's been very responsive to any issues that I've had. Most of their CSR's seem competent –at least compared to other brands. Keep calling until you get someone that really understands your issues.
> 
> ...


:lmao::lmao: find me the apple bulletin about SATA hard drives dying.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

broad said:


> :lmao::lmao: find me the apple bulletin about SATA hard drives dying.


I'd be intrigued as to how one could even find ANY 'not for public' Apple service bulletin on the open 'net??? ;0)


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

pm-r said:


> I'd be intrigued as to how one could even find ANY 'not for public' Apple service bulletin on the open 'net??? ;0)


There's plenty of public Apple Repair Extension Programs in effect for anyone to see. There's no public or private REP for SATA drives of any kind. Some people in this thread just don't know what they're talking about and are creating misinformation and confusion unnecessarily.

Seriously - a customer has 2 drives fail on them and we think there's some special bulletin for it? Parts fail. Bad batches are made. This isn't unusual, guys.

The OP hasn't had the best luck, I agree, but let's not blow this out of proportion.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

Lars said:


> There's plenty of public Apple Repair Extension Programs in effect for anyone to see. There's no public or private REP for SATA drives of any kind. Some people in this thread just don't know what they're talking about and are creating misinformation and confusion unnecessarily.
> 
> Seriously - a customer has 2 drives fail on them and we think there's some special bulletin for it? Parts fail. Bad batches are made. This isn't unusual, guys.
> 
> The OP hasn't had the best luck, I agree, but let's not blow this out of proportion.


x4565345. lets not get hysterical

this thread is well into tinfoil hat land. 2 bunk hard drives in a laptop does not a lemon make.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

pm-r said:


> I'd be intrigued as to how one could even find ANY 'not for public' Apple service bulletin on the open 'net??? ;0)


apple repair extension program - Google Search would be your best bet


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

I was questioning the '*not for public*' or '*non-disclosure*' bulletins such as the "*Apple restricted Apple tech bulletins*" that they used to send out and made available ONLY to qualified Apple Certified Technicians, and I'm not sure if they still do so.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

every repair extension bulletin has a public component. it has to, otherwise how would the public know about it? 

if you are a tech you see some notes at the bottom that the public doesnt see that has to do with how the repairs are processed. thats the only real difference.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

It might be the hard drive controller, Maybe they didn't connect it properly,
Or it just defective and they have attached another hard drive to it and it's doing the same dance.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

or maybe the first drive was defective and then he dropped/bumped the laptop and that ruined the 2nd one...

there are loads of reasons 2 drives could die, all of which are more probable than the notion that he has some malicious "lemon" that is, for reasons known only to it, murdering hard drives.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

ssent1 said:


> If you have a lemon, track as many details as you can about the situation.
> 
> Apple's been very responsive to any issues that I've had. Most of their CSR's seem competent –at least compared to other brands. Keep calling until you get someone that really understands your issues.
> 
> ...


Thanks. That does help.


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

imachungry said:


> Just to update:
> 
> Now I'm on my second hard drive failure in just six months, and the first one was replaced last month.
> 
> ...


This might be a dumb question and feels like chasing bad money with good but if you did buy the Apple Care warranty does it give you more of a chance of having your laptop replaced. If not immediately but in a year or two down the road when Apple can no longer find an exact replacement?

Just to get my head around this timeline, so for 6 months you've continued to have the original problem or did it get resolved and then something else happened to cause the hard drive to be replaced? 

A second drive failing in such short order does seem a bit soon but it could be a bad batch. It seemed to me I read something about a three strike policy with Apple.


https://discussions.apple.com/message/3750815?messageID=3750815


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## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

Niteshooter said:


> This might be a dumb question and feels like chasing bad money with good but if you did buy the Apple Care warranty does it give you more of a chance of having your laptop replaced. If not immediately but in a year or two down the road when Apple can no longer find an exact replacement?
> 
> Just to get my head around this timeline, so for 6 months you've continued to have the original problem or did it get resolved and then something else happened to cause the hard drive to be replaced?
> 
> ...


After the first year of warranty coverage ends, Apple has no obligation to fix or replace anything UNLESS you buy AppleCare. Of course, there are the exceptions to this rule as discussed - when they extend warranties for particular issues, or in rarer cases when they have no official policy but do in fact repair/replace out of warranty Macs with problems (my leaking 4 year old G5 2.5GHz dual processor was replaced with a new Mac Pro - I was very lucky) but you certainly shouldn't rely on this sort of luck or benevolence!!

As has already been stated by those who actually know (Lars, et al) Apple has no "official" 3 strike policy.

But again - as I've said, and several others in this thread have also said, 2 dead hard drives does not a lemon make. Apple will no doubt replace the drive again. Statistically, your chances of having a drive fail within the first three months are about 3%. It would appear that this is what has happened both times (the first time, he didn't get the drive replaced for months after it started misbehaving).


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## ssent1 (Sep 3, 2005)

pm-r said:


> I'd be intrigued as to how one could even find ANY 'not for public' Apple service bulletin on the open 'net??? ;0)


Good question.

Apple seems to "actively manage" it's forums and knowledge bases. If you're lucky enough to get relevant supporting materials, milk it for all it's worth.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

ssent1 said:


> Good question.


see my above post. its called "google"


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## Rounder (Aug 9, 2008)

Paddy said:


> As has already been stated by those who actually know (Lars, et al) Apple has no "official" 3 strike policy.


The 3 strike policy applied my girlfriends 2010 Macbook. Had almost every piece of hardware replaced and was still getting Kernel Panics. Finally I went back because she was getting extremely frustrated. Went to the Apple store, and the Genius told me they would have to replace the Hard Drive (which was the only thing never touched), and I told him they've already tested the drive and replaced every piece of hardware in the Macbook, and told him last time I came in the Genuis said they would probably give me a new one. So a little calm persuasion, back and forth, and he said he's going to replace the Hard Drive, so I said ok. He goes in the back, comes back with a brand new machine and just said we'll replace it for you. It was crucial to get something done as her 1 year warranty expires end of June (2011). 

If I would have a 3000 dollar Macbook Pro, I wouldn't be taking no for an answer on getting it replaced. 1 thing that always fails with a Genius is being aggressive and demanding though, so having strong negotiation skills and a friendly attitude has always proved well for getting my Apple products replaced free of charge. 

I really do hope that the OP can get this resolved... because it is extremely frustrating especially spending that much money.


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## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

Rounder said:


> The 3 strike policy applied my girlfriends 2010 Macbook. Had almost every piece of hardware replaced and was still getting Kernel Panics. Finally I went back because she was getting extremely frustrated. Went to the Apple store, and the Genius told me they would have to replace the Hard Drive (which was the only thing never touched), and I told him they've already tested the drive and replaced every piece of hardware in the Macbook, and told him last time I came in the Genuis said they would probably give me a new one. So a little calm persuasion, back and forth, and he said he's going to replace the Hard Drive, so I said ok. He goes in the back, comes back with a brand new machine and just said we'll replace it for you. It was crucial to get something done as her 1 year warranty expires end of June (2011).
> 
> If I would have a 3000 dollar Macbook Pro, I wouldn't be taking no for an answer on getting it replaced. 1 thing that always fails with a Genius is being aggressive and demanding though, so having strong negotiation skills and a friendly attitude has always proved well for getting my Apple products replaced free of charge.
> 
> I really do hope that the OP can get this resolved... because it is extremely frustrating especially spending that much money.


Your girlfriend's situation is a far, far cry from the OP's situation. He's had two hard drive failures. Period. The symptoms he experienced were entirely related to those hard drive failures. Your girlfriend was getting constant kernel panics, even after various bits of hardware were replaced. Continuous kernel panics are most often related to hardware problems. So, in your girlfriend's case, having already replaced things, Apple did the right thing (probably for their own bottom line too - after all, they're eating the cost of replacing parts and paying the techs, so sooner or later it becomes more cost effective to just replace the entire thing). For the OP to go in and expect a replacement laptop after two hard drive failures is unrealistic. No matter how friendly and reasonable he is.  Hard drives fail. Sometimes you have bad luck and they fail twice in a row. It doesn't mean that the computer itself is a lemon or needs replacing.

My son has had the display on his MB replaced (in the first year) because it was misbehaving. After he went off to university in the fall, he reported that one of his USB ports isn't working. He will get that fixed shortly (he hasn't had a period when he could be without his laptop until now) under the extended warranty. Do I expect Apple to offer him an entire new laptop? I suppose it's a possibility because the USB ports are soldered to the logic board and they may decide to swap the logic board - I don't know if they'd rather replace it. I'd bet "no" but we'll see. What I am counting on is that they'll fix it under the warranty.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

Paddy said:


> Your girlfriend's situation is a far, far cry from the OP's situation. He's had two hard drive failures. Period......Sometimes you have bad luck and they fail twice in a row. It doesn't mean that the computer itself is a lemon or needs replacing.
> )


you're obviously just not wearing your tinfoil hat paddy


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## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

broad said:


> you're obviously just not wearing your tinfoil hat paddy


Yeah, I know. Someone put it in the recycling bin yesterday...


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## Adguyy (Jun 11, 2008)

I got my MacBook Pro 15" i5 last Nov 2010. And it's been working without any kind of problems!  I am very happy with the speed and I just upgraded the RAM to 8GB and also notice a big improvment too! Well worth the $170 upgrade price!  I knew Apple would release new Macbook pro's in the the new year, but I don't want to wait another 4 more months. And if you keep waiting, you'll never buy a new mac, everyone should know Apple updates 2 times a year. So just enjoy you new Mac and in 2 or 3 years upgrade it to a faster Mac!


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

Paddy said:


> Your girlfriend's situation is a far, far cry from the OP's situation. He's had two hard drive failures. Period. The symptoms he experienced were entirely related to those hard drive failures. Your girlfriend was getting constant kernel panics, even after various bits of hardware were replaced. Continuous kernel panics are most often related to hardware problems. So, in your girlfriend's case, having already replaced things, Apple did the right thing (probably for their own bottom line too - after all, they're eating the cost of replacing parts and paying the techs, so sooner or later it becomes more cost effective to just replace the entire thing). For the OP to go in and expect a replacement laptop after two hard drive failures is unrealistic. No matter how friendly and reasonable he is.  Hard drives fail. Sometimes you have bad luck and they fail twice in a row. It doesn't mean that the computer itself is a lemon or needs replacing.


Thought I would update this thread, to illustrate to all the Apple fanboys that in the end, I have a lemon, 100% total lemon, and none of it has anything to do with me. 

If you hand over $3000 for a MacBook Pro and it doesn't work, it must be your fault. 

I'm on the way to my third hard drive failure now, and to add a cherry on top, the machine now won't wake from sleep. Perfect. Another problem to add to an already useless machine. But hey, I followed the remedies on the discussion boards, SMC reset, etc., but it's still happening with all the other problems. 

I just have to accept that I've been screwed. Bought a lemon, and I'm on my own. 

I accepted what people told me, that Apple will make things right. Not so. Instead, I've been escalated and escalated, wasted hours and hours over the phone with Apple hand holders who run me through various procedures, but in the end, the machine still has major problems, and no one will make it right. 

I have used Apple products for twenty years. I doubt I will ever buy another Apple product after this. 

Flame away, just don't blame me, blame a faulty machine.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

imachungry said:


> Thought I would update this thread, to illustrate to all the Apple fanboys that in the end, I have a lemon, 100% total lemon, and none of it has anything to do with me.
> 
> If you hand over $3000 for a MacBook Pro and it doesn't work, it must be your fault.
> 
> ...


One (or two) bad Apple(s) don't spoil the whole bunch....  I feel your frustration though...


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## keebler27 (Jan 5, 2007)

Ima, sorry to hear about the continued issues.

If you bought this in late fall 2010, you're still within a 1 year of warranty. I would type up a document listing the issues, detail the fact you've used macs for 20 years and never had such issues and how frustrating it's been and go talk to an applestore or if you don't have one in your area, email them after calling them. Ask the support to escalate the issue b/c you're not happy and speak to someone higher up.

Not sure if it would all work, but I certainly try that route to get a new machine. 3 HDs is just not right. The lack of waking up from sleep could be a variety of issues relating to the HD failing and/or an OS update or prefs getting screwed up.

Bottom line: you're clearly not happy (and rightfully so) so I would pursue it.

good luck,
keebler


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## jeepguy (Apr 4, 2008)

It's a shame we don't have a lemon law in Canada, spending $3000 is nothing to sneeze at, 3 dead hard drives sounds unacepible, there must be some other problem causing all these drive failures.

Edit:
I realize it's probably the last thing you want to do is throw more money at it, but If you don't have the extended apple care, I would invest in it, just in case you can't get this resolved.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

jeepguy said:


> It's a shame we don't have a lemon law in Canada, spending $3000 is nothing to sneeze at, 3 dead hard drives sounds unacepible, there must be some other problem causing all these drive failures.
> 
> Edit:
> I realize it's probably the last thing you want to do is throw more money at it, but If you don't have the extended apple care, I would invest in it, just in case you can't get this resolved.


On principle, I wil never do that, but I appreciate the suggestion.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

keebler27 said:


> Ima, sorry to hear about the continued issues.
> 
> If you bought this in late fall 2010, you're still within a 1 year of warranty. I would type up a document listing the issues, detail the fact you've used macs for 20 years and never had such issues and how frustrating it's been and go talk to an applestore or if you don't have one in your area, email them after calling them. Ask the support to escalate the issue b/c you're not happy and speak to someone higher up.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Someone who I suspect works for Apple sent me a message some months ago telling me exactly how to get the problem solved from someone higher up. I followed the steps as indicated and I have had very sympathetic people spending lots of my valuable time trying to placate me and have me jump through hoops, but it has gone nowhere and has simply infuriated me. Why is it my job to find the problem with your machine???? If I bought a BMW and it didn't work, I wouldn't be in the garage answering questions I know nothing about!!!

I should add that I very much like the new operating system, which makes me all the more unhappy that I bought a lemon and can't get a new one. For me $3k is real money, never mind having to port and reboot all my data over and over on a garbage machine that will let me down. Amazingly, this has destroyed my productivity, never mind my attitude.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Certainly the three HDs in one year should qualify for a new machine. Either they are replacing a known bad HDs with HDs from the same batch or something else is causing the HDs to fail. Either way you have a machine that cannot be relied upon and net result is any critical data has to reside on an external drive, presumably forcing you to use a second external as primary back-up. 

Either way experience tells me you may have to insist on working your way up the food chain till you reach someone who has authority to address your problem. Be polite but extremely firm. A shrieking customer may have good reason but someone who is pleasant to talk to will usually get better and quicker results. It's just human nature.

As mentioned earlier a detailed log should be put together. Be sure to include time lost by these incidents. You won't be compensated for it but it will allow the guy at the other end to clue in to the fact that the machines lack of reliablity is disrupting workflow.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Gonna revise the previous post. Normally I would never, ever suggest something like this and you would almost certainly be an idiot to follow this advice. *I accept no responsibility whatsoever should you choose to follow this advice.* The legal and other ramifications are indeed horrendous, especially if Tommy Taser is working the beat at that time.

Put together the log. Take it around to every Apple Store within a reasonable driving distance and ask them to go to bat for you and get you a new computer. Pretty sure this is outside their mandate, but what the eh, maybe you'll get lucky. 

Failing that; Pick the store that showed the least sympathy for your problem. Pick their busiest time of day on their busiest day of the week. Return with at least three and preferably four or five kids in the 4-10 year old range (borrow them from neighbours as needed). If there is an ice cream store close by, arm each with a double decker cone then return to that Apple Store. Failing the ice cream give each a nice gooey cinnabun just before going in. 

In a loud, clear voice firmly tell them not to touch the computers. Then in that same loud, clear, voice, very politely but again firmly ask the manager to help you get your MBP Lemon exchanged. 

By telling the kids to not touch the computers you have turned them into fully armed Mac seeking missiles while at the same time establishing that you were doing everything humanly possible to prevent them from attacking said computers. The entire staff will now have to spend the next several minutes deflecting computer attacks by the kids. The manager will only try to blow you off if he is on drugs, otherwise he will attempt to resolve things as quickly as possible in order to preserve both computers and customers.

Just fantasizing here but sometimes such thoughts can ease the frustration a little.

*Seriously good luck and I hope you find a satisfactory resolution in fairly short order.*


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

If there's something else causing the hard drives to fail other than the hard drives, and it's possible that it's just failed hard drives, your principles are going to cost you thousands of dollars. Buy AppleCare if it's not too late.




imachungry said:


> On principle, I wil never do that, but I appreciate the suggestion.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

eMacMan said:


> Gonna revise the previous post. Normally I would never, ever suggest something like this and you would almost certainly be an idiot to follow this advice. *I accept no responsibility whatsoever should you choose to follow this advice.* The legal and other ramifications are indeed horrendous, especially if Tommy Taser is working the beat at that time.
> 
> Put together the log. Take it around to every Apple Store within a reasonable driving distance and ask them to go to bat for you and get you a new computer. Pretty sure this is outside their mandate, but what the eh, maybe you'll get lucky.
> 
> ...


speaking of irreversible brain damage....wow...


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

> ..*Seriously good luck and I hope you find a satisfactory resolution in fairly short order.*





broad said:


> speaking of irreversible brain damage....wow...


Yep! Seems there is zero chance of a quick and favourable resolution. Especially as the OP is not a hoop jumper. My own experience indicates that getting Apple to replace a computer will involve hoops. NO indication that things have changed that much in the past few years.


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## Tech Elementz (Mar 15, 2011)

So is the HD now the issue or is the Macbook Pro still the issue?

By the way, what are the specs of the Macbook Pro?


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## Mr.Tickles (Mar 25, 2009)

My wife's MacBook Pro 2009 was always doing slowdown even for Safari. When I beefed up the ram all of the problems vanished. Apple really does its own products a disserve by starving them of RAM. My WhiteBook from 2007 wasn't as bad, but it got a major performance boost with extra RAM.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

Tech Elementz said:


> So is the HD now the issue or is the Macbook Pro still the issue?
> 
> By the way, what are the specs of the Macbook Pro?


dont bother. signal/noise ratio in this one is too low to waste time on


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## Tech Elementz (Mar 15, 2011)

broad said:


> dont bother. signal/noise ratio in this one is too low to waste time on


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

I hope you get a free replacement. 

I would try three things: 

1. One last phone call, escalating as high as possible (and don't forget to take names and phone numbers as you go up the ladder, so you can call the last highest person you dealt with instead of starting over at the bottom). Specifically request a replacement and refuse all attempts at further troubleshooting or offers of more repairs. Definitely use words like experienced user, 20-year user, lemon, unacceptable, etc. 

The key thing with this call is to be *firm but extremely polite throughout*. Getting rude or aggressive will not help you one bit -- most people's natural response will be to try to get you off the phone as quickly as possible rather than helping you. 

2. A visit to the nearest Genius Bar. Again, firmly but politely state that three total drive failures, and now the sleep issue, are unacceptable, and you do not want any further attempts to fix this particular unit, you want a new one.

3. A short, polite e-mail to Tim Cook, explaining the situation and your frustration. Apple is known to watch customer e-mails to execs closely. It's a long-shot but not a complete waste of time either.

And if none of that works, sad to say but buying AppleCare before it's too late really is sound advice, even though putting more money into a lemon is a bitter pill to swallow.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

broad said:


> dont bother. signal/noise ratio in this one is too low to waste time on


Right on................


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## eHDan (Aug 31, 2011)

Sorry to hear about your mac troubles! I'm personally pretty happy with my macbook pro but to each their own! It couldn't hurt to see what apple might be able to do for you, right? good luck!


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

broad said:


> dont bother. signal/noise ratio in this one is too low to waste time on


I agree. I appreciate those who have offered help, but I'm not wasting any more time troubleshooting here. If someone from Apple is reading this thread and wants to save a 20 year customer as he walks out the door, PM me. Otherwise, color me bitter. 

Thanks again to all who helped.


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## idesign (Aug 19, 2005)

With that many HD failures, I'm wondering if it has to do with not shutting down your laptop when you're going out. If you just put the computer to sleep by closing the lid and running out the door, it could potentially be very damaging to the HD. I've had this happen many, many times with Apple laptops. It's not Apple's fault at all though, its the ****ty nature of HDs. They're mechanical, and flimsy and they break. 

I apologize if there's another issue with the laptop that you mentioned outside of the HD issue, but I'm can't read through this whole thread! 

I also wanted to note that Apple support has been particularly awful with me over the past year. I've had no luck in replacing anything out of warranty, from older bulging batteries to 53 days out of warranty complete hard drive failures. They used to be very nice to deal with, not so much lately.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

> I also wanted to note that Apple support has been particularly awful with me over the past year. I've had no luck in replacing anything out of warranty, from older bulging batteries to 53 days out of warranty complete hard drive failures. They used to be very nice to deal with, not so much lately.


so because they havent been making out of warranty exceptions, which they have no obligation to do, they have been "awful" with you? 

i want to live in the world where you do. it seems like it would be nice


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

> i want to live in the world where you do. it seems like it would be nice


As would the world where Apple just magically replaces a bad computer without the owner making the effort to do a formal request.


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## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

broad said:


> so because they havent been making out of warranty exceptions, which they have no obligation to do, they have been "awful" with you?
> 
> i want to live in the world where you do. it seems like it would be nice


Well, it would if you didn't run a business.


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

That's the first time I've heard of sleep being a potential cause of HDD failure. 

I'm skeptical, since "sleep that actually works" has long (like 20 years) been one of the big selling points for Apple laptops, not to mention desktops for a good long time as well, at least since the first version of OS X if not longer. And even without putting the whole machine to sleep, drives are routinely spun down to "sleep" mode. 

If sleep damaged drives that easily, wouldn't we'd be hearing about way, way more drive failures? It's true drives seem to fail more than other components, presumably due to delicate moving parts etc., but the OP's experience is still way outside the norm.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

mark is right.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

broad said:


> hahaha the last part of his post was so ridiculous i didnt even read this part
> 
> 
> 
> ...


True but it can take a few seconds for the computer to catch up with indexing and so on after the lid is closed. The key is not to close the lid and run, but rather let it sit for just a bit then stuff it in the bag or what have you. 

I still wonder why the user expects Apple to come to him rather than taking the few minutes required to hoop jump and get it replaced? Obviously 3 HDs in less than a year is gonna qualify for a replacement.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

_Whoa, guys_. Ease up on *idesign*. What s/he is saying, I think, is that those who shut the lid, toss the laptop in the bag and head out the door are asking for trouble... _and that is true_. Until the sleep indicator light is pulsing, that hard drive is still spinning, and movement (like "tossing" it into a backpack) can result in damage.... mitigated to a degree by the motion sensor in modern laptops.

I remember having two Mac laptops (my tangerine iBook and a white iBook) that both had a habit of not staying closed while in my back (a loose backpack at the time). These weren't magnetic closures, but spring-loaded hinges that didn't always do the job. The laptop lid would open a bit, and the computer would spin up. I'd arrive at my destination with (a) a dead battery or (b) a laptop that was burning up from running while in the bag.

Off your high horses, please, and show some civility to a fellow ehMacian.


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

Yeah, I missed the "wait a few seconds for it to spin down" part. 

Still, we have no indication from the OP that this could be the source of trouble. Surely someone would have mentioned it to him on his many support phone calls?


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

iMatt said:


> Yeah, I missed the "wait a few seconds for it to spin down" part.
> 
> Still, we have no indication from the OP that this could be the source of trouble. Surely someone would have mentioned it to him on his many support phone calls?


Again, don't have time to respond to this thread every day. The problem with the sleep is well documented on the Apple support boards, and no, it is not the source of the problem I originally posted about, _*merely the cherry on top after all I've been through. *_


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

Understood. I wasn't referring to the sleep problem you mentioned, but to the poster's suggestion that HDD failure can be caused by moving a laptop too soon after closing the lid (which I assume is not the source of your problem).


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

imachungry;1128023 [I said:


> *merely the cherry on top after all I've been through. *[/I]










[/URL]


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

Hey, I love this computer! Two weeks out of the end of my warranty, now the magsafe adaptor has crapped out. Hooray! After being royally screwed on this lemon, I'm in for another $100 just to get back to square one. 

Yay Apple! 

And to all the smartasses who will step up to gleefully chant "You should have bought extended AppleCare, loser!"--you're right! I'm a an idiot for ever thinking that I shouldn't have to pour another $400 into a ****e computer that didn't work properly in the first ($3,000) place. 

Stupid me. 

I thought I'd experienced it all with this machine, but apparently not. 

Customer Reviews: Apple 60W MagSafe Power Adapter (f? - Apple Store (U.S.)

Yay Apple!! Thanks for fabulousness!


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## tdu (Sep 15, 2008)

idesign said:


> With that many HD failures, I'm wondering if it has to do with not shutting down your laptop when you're going out. If you just put the computer to sleep by closing the lid and running out the door, it could potentially be very damaging to the HD. I've had this happen many, many times with Apple laptops. It's not Apple's fault at all though, its the ****ty nature of HDs. They're mechanical, and flimsy and they break.
> 
> I apologize if there's another issue with the laptop that you mentioned outside of the HD issue, but I'm can't read through this whole thread!
> 
> *I also wanted to note that Apple support has been particularly awful with me over the past year. I've had no luck in replacing anything out of warranty, from older bulging batteries to 53 days out of warranty complete hard drive failures. They used to be very nice to deal with, not so much lately.*


And what do you think other computer companies would do if the machine was out of warranty? That is not being 'awful'. Warranties are warranties.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

imachungry said:


> Hey, I love this computer! Two weeks out of the end of my warranty, now the magsafe adaptor has crapped out. Hooray! After being royally screwed on this lemon, I'm in for another $100 just to get back to square one.
> 
> Yay Apple!
> 
> ...


Try calling Apple Customer Support as they don't always go by the exact minute and day of any warranty expiry, and especially if they can track and see all the other problems you have encountered and had fixed.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

imachungry said:


> Hey, I love this computer! Two weeks out of the end of my warranty, now the magsafe adaptor has crapped out. Hooray! After being royally screwed on this lemon, I'm in for another $100 just to get back to square one.
> 
> Yay Apple!
> 
> ...


you realize at this point its just the universe frigging with you, right?


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## Mr.Tickles (Mar 25, 2009)

Apple has given me a lot of replacements out of warranty. If you call them they will probably just give you a new replacement.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

I would agree and it helps to call with a polite but firm voice and preferably with some backup facts of the ongoing problem, as a ranting arrogant A H type call will probably not get one any satisfaction, and certainly no implication here that to OP would do such a thing.


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## lookitsmarc (Feb 2, 2008)

I managed to get a free adapter from the apple store after bringing in my 3.5 year old one that stopped working. Give it a try.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

pm-r said:


> I would agree and it helps to call with a polite but firm voice and preferably with some backup facts of the ongoing problem, as a ranting arrogant A H type call will probably not get one any satisfaction, and certainly no implication here that to OP would do such a thing.


I know everyone is sick of this thread, and I promise I'll exit after this, but I do want to point out that I spent (at my own expense--who can I bill for this?) probably six hours on the phone over a period of three days with Apple in California trying patiently to sort through the computer's many problems, and while the two reps assigned to me were always exceedingly patient and kind to me, I very much got the feeling that they were just trying to wear me down until I gave up. Eventually I did. 

After countless trips to the Apple Store, multiple hard drive swaps, dances with reps, phone tete a tete's, I had enough. 

It was just the cat's meow that a few weeks out of warranty, I'm stuck shelling out $80 for a &*%@#-ing power supply, glisteningly expensive and damned....PRICELESS after all the **** I've been through. 

Right now, Apple, I hate you, I really hate you. Long ago, I had a high-up-the-food-chain Apple source. Sadly, now I'm just a sucker who got ripped. 

Over and out--I promise.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

It sure does sound like you have a legit gripe and complaint and I meant no offence to your problem.

I gather from the California Apple contacts that you've been dealing with that you're not in Canada, as if that should make any difference.

Let's hope your latest replacement power adapter will be your last equipment hassle and cost.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Still I do recall from earlier postings that you chose to not jump through hoops to get an obvious lemon replaced and also chose not to buy an extended warranty even though you knew you had a lemon.

I do understand what you went through. I spent over 2 hours on the phone working my way up Apple's chain of command to finally reach someone with the authority to replace my original flawed eMac. It was frustrating repeating the litany of repair attempts multiple times but once I reached the supervisory level, it took less than two minutes to arrange a replacement. I was able to make the exchange from the dealer the next day. It was worth the effort. The replacement gave me 7 years of trouble free use. Had there been a single hardware hick-up within the original warranty on that replacement I would have bought the extended warranty. I say that even though my personal finances at that time were extremely tight.

What made the whole thing more frustrating is that my eMac suffered from a known issue. Stores were reporting DOA rates of anywhere from 15-50% and some were even refusing to carry the eMac altogether. There were over 10,000 related postings on their website forum. Even so from bottom to top, every rep I talked to would have had me believe Apple was totally unaware of the problem. Interestingly a few days after I picked my replacement Apple announced the official fix for the problem they had previously claimed did not exist.


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