# AppleCare is not insurance..



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

I'm trying to wrap my head around how, and why, Mac users believe that AppleCare is a form of insurance, when it's extremely clear when in fact, it is not. AppleCare is falsely sold as a form of insurance by Macs sales people all the time, which is another pet peeve of mine. AppleCare [extended] is _no different_ than the original Apple warranty that comes standard with every new Mac sold. I run into Mac users again and again which think AppleCare is an 'enhanced' version of the original warranty, which covers things like abuse, water spills, dropping of their Mac, and most things in between. Warranty and insurance are *not* the same thing - at all.

If I run my Mazda3 off the road, ripping off its exhaust and leaving it behind on the road, I can't go into my dealer and say, "I want it repaired for free. I'm still within my 3-year/80,000 KM warranty period." I can, however, go to my _insurance company_ and have them repair my car, minus my deductible. Completely different.

AppleCare is the same as a vehicle's 3-year/80,000 KM warranty contract - NOT the same as a vehicle insurance policy - covering nothing but manufacturing defects.

I had to vent that a little, as too many Mac users don't seem to understand the contract behind the AppleCare Protection Plan..


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## jhollington (Jan 29, 2007)

I hear you and agree with you wholeheartedly on that one.... Mind you, people expect their _warranty_ to be insurance as well, and we've had to take a hard-line on "Warranty Fraud" requests over on the iLounge forums, as it was starting to get out of hand (people were literally posting questions like, "How can I damage my iPod to get a new one under warranty?")

When I got my first Powerbook a couple of years ago, I knocked it off a table (well, I knocked the table _over_, and the Powerbook fell off), and cracked the screen. $1,000+ damage to a machine that was only _three weeks old_ at that point. You can imagine how much _that_ hurt.

But it never even crossed my mind that this would or should be covered under warranty. I _did_ look into various _insurance_ options (VISA purchase protection, home-owners policies, etc), and found I was out of luck there as well. So, I trudged in to the Apple Store (Yorkdale at the time) and paid the $1,000 for a new screen.

Now, to Apple's credit, by also paying for ProCare at the same time I had the machine back in my hands with a new screen on it in under _two hours_, but that's what ProCare is _for_ in my opinion (in fact, the only thing that ProCare offers that I care about at all), and it's _still_ not insurance.... Just a higher service level agreement.

It's not that people don't understand this, in my opinion, rather it's that most people don't _want_ to. People have an entitlement mentality these days, and expect that the manufacturer should cover their own mistakes and misfortunes.

But the bottom line is that a warranty is protection against the _manufacturer's_ defects, not the _user's_.


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## mcdermij (Oct 13, 2006)

well put.


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## idiot (Sep 10, 2006)

So is it worth it? I still haven't purchased mine for my iMac


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

idiot said:


> So is it worth it? I still haven't purchased mine for my iMac


Most, if not all parts, on an iMac, cost more than the price of the APP after parts, labor, and applicable taxes.


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

Lars said:


> Most, if not all parts, on an iMac, cost more than the price of the APP after parts, labor, and applicable taxes.


I always get a laugh when people don't buy the Applecare because they "know how to fix computers". I guess they have that secret stash of processors and a really small soldering iron.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

It is enhanced in that you ongoing phone support instead of just 90 days. 

I've never run into a client that thought it was anything more than repair for defective product.

We recommend it for all units with LCDs, not for towers ( without screens ) and generally not for MacMinis.


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## idiot (Sep 10, 2006)

I bought my iMac back in december 2006, can I still buy AppleCare?


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## jhollington (Jan 29, 2007)

Yes, you can still buy AppleCare on any Apple product that it's available for as long as you're still within the original warranty period.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

back when streets were lit by gas lamps and i was selling macs i had a lawyer client that spilled coffee on his keyboard, bitche to apple that it should be covered under warranty, and after enough complaining, received a new extended keyboard from apple

back then keyboards were $250


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## mikef (Jun 24, 2003)

This is one aspect of warranty where Dell has it right. Dell's CompleteCare is insurance against accidental damage. I wish Apple offered this.


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## Demosthenes X (Sep 23, 2004)

Agreed in principle, but the potential for abuse seems very high. You've got a last-generation MacBook? Just throw it off a balcony and get a new one!


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## crawford (Oct 8, 2005)

mikef said:


> This is one aspect of warranty where Dell has it right. Dell's CompleteCare is insurance against accidental damage. I wish Apple offered this.


This could be the source of some of the confusion. For roughly the same money as AppleCare, Dell sells a much more comprehensive form of coverage. But the OP is right, it's pretty clear what's covered and what's not covered.


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## mikef (Jun 24, 2003)

Demosthenes X said:


> Agreed in principle, but the potential for abuse seems very high. You've got a last-generation MacBook? Just throw it off a balcony and get a new one!


I guess Dell counts on the fact that not everybody is so unethical.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

crawford said:


> This could be the source of some of the confusion. For roughly the same money as AppleCare, Dell sells a much more comprehensive form of coverage. But the OP is right, it's pretty clear what's covered and what's not covered.


My comment was going to be along those lines.
I find the AppleCare plan quite expensive and also misleading the way it's positioned and advertized.
Apple keeps talking about "3-years" where in fact it's only really two years - you can't count the first year warranty because you get that anyway and the cost of it is already built into the cost of the product.
(Forget the extension of the 90-day phone support; I find the support on ehMac is better and so is the price  )
And then Apple talks about "Protection"...well that is a very general term and implies more than just a basic warranty. I can see why people think they are buying more
1. High Price
2. Sold as "Protection"

Mind you, if you have a problem, you'll be happy to have it, but the profit margin on this for Apple is huge.

Actually begs the question - what happens if you buy the Mac with a credit card that doubles the warranty period of purchases? You now have at least two years of warranty on the purchase and AppleCare is really only good for one extra year.


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## Demosthenes X (Sep 23, 2004)

The profit margin on extended warranties is always huge. The number of people who never use it is far greater than the number who do... it only takes five people who bought it and never used it to replace a MacBook entirely...

Interestly, though, "they" say that notebooks are one of very few things where buying the extended warranty is a good idea. On most items it's rubbish.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

The original cost of Apple computers, especially laptops, figures in greatly to why AppleCare gets promoted as a good idea.

If you have to replace a logic board in month 13, you value AppleCare highly.


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## jhollington (Jan 29, 2007)

krs said:


> And then Apple talks about "Protection"...well that is a very general term and implies more than just a basic warranty. I can see why people think they are buying more


Although essentially true, part of this confusion is caused by the general terms of what everybody _else_ is offering in that field as well. Dell's plan above, for instance, adds to that confusion.

However, like any of these plans, it's a buyer-beware thing. I don't have a lot of sympathy for somebody who buys _any_ extended warranty, protection, or insurance plan without understanding at least the most general terms of what is and isn't covered by it.



> Mind you, if you have a problem, you'll be happy to have it, but the profit margin on this for Apple is huge.


Having just required a hard drive replacement about 15 months in, I was certainly happy to have Applecare. Combined with ProCare (for faster turnaround), this meant that I was without my Powerbook for no more than three hours. 

The price is obviously a premium, but as others have pointed out, so are the products themselves. 



> Actually begs the question - what happens if you buy the Mac with a credit card that doubles the warranty period of purchases? You now have at least two years of warranty on the purchase and AppleCare is really only good for one extra year.


This is true, but if you read the fine print on many of these credit card company's so-called "extended warranties" you'll often find that there are a lot more hidden terms and conditions than a manufacturer's extended warranty. Specifics on where the item has to be serviced and how many estimates have to be submitted. In addition, for some credit cards they even require you to pay for the repair yourself and submit proof of claim paperwork, after which they will reimburse you for those costs in 8-12 weeks. 

The bottom line is that the hoops that you often have to jump through on one of these almost makes it worthwhile to get coverage under Applecare even if your credit card extends the warranty.


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## Jason H (Feb 1, 2004)

MacDoc said:


> *It is enhanced in that you ongoing phone support instead of just 90 days. *
> .


The phone support is useless, i once had a corrupt os x install and my networking on my ibook wasnt working. Their troubleshooting step 1 was to go into the server closet, disconnect the schools file server from the rest of the network, and connect my ibook to it with a crossover cable. I told them I was at school and this was impossible, and they said "we dont support network connections made via a hub or a switch" Funniest thing ever IMHO.


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## Jason H (Feb 1, 2004)

krs said:


> Actually begs the question - what happens if you buy the Mac with a credit card that doubles the warranty period of purchases? You now have at least two years of warranty on the purchase and AppleCare is really only good for one extra year.


I phoned Visa to ask, their extra year of coverage starts when applecare expires!


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## mikef (Jun 24, 2003)

Jason H said:


> I phoned Visa to ask, their extra year of coverage starts when applecare expires!


Wow, I'd get a second opinion on that before relying on it. Seems almost too good to be true.


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## duper (May 7, 2006)

The AppleCare Department at Apple really goes out of its way to emphasize that the AppleCare is not an extended warranty. Phone agents get deductions on their call handling if they refer to it as an extended warranty.

AppleCare is:
-An extra 2 years hardware coverage
-An extra 2 3/4 year phone support
-AppleCare CD
-Onsite repair (for desktops)

So yes, you are "insured" for any repair resulting from hardware failure.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

Insured for 'hardware failure' is not the same as general insurance, as general insurance covers most to everything, including at-fault accidents.


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## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

Jason H said:


> I phoned Visa to ask, their extra year of coverage starts when applecare expires!



Jason - are you sure? The standard VISA/MasterCard policy is that it extends the manufacturers warranty, and doesn't include extended warranties, such as AppleCare.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

Here is a good, short article on extended warranty:

Digital Home - Should I buy the Extended Warranty?


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

krs said:


> Here is a good, short article on extended warranty:
> 
> Digital Home - Should I buy the Extended Warranty?


Even the article agrees that buying extended warranty is a good idea for portables - makes sense, of course.  However, comparing AppleCare to typical Futureshop warranties isn't realistic or even comparing apples with apples.


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## mikef (Jun 24, 2003)

Assuming that the Future Shop warranty is honored, it is absolutely no different than AppleCare... not sure why you think they're different.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

mikef said:


> Assuming that the Future Shop warranty is honored, it is absolutely no different than AppleCare... not sure why you think they're different.


Futureshop warranties are often sold on products that don't need extended warranties, never break, or are cheap to replace or fix if they do break. Not the case with most Macs -- most Macs exceed or come close to the price of a replacement unit altogether in terms of repair prices. Warranties from places like Futureshop make sense on laptops, $4000 plasma TV's, and those related items - and just about nothing else.


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## mikef (Jun 24, 2003)

At the end of the day, they're both extended warranties regardless of what you call them.


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## Carl (Jun 7, 2003)

seems obvious to me. I always buy AC when I buy the computer. Even the smallest repair would be more than the price of AC.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

I'm curious to know if people generally do what the previous poster does, and buy AppleCare when they purchase the computer, or if they wait and buy AppleCare near the end of the first year?

And when selling a Mac: if it comes with AppleCare, that's a huge bonus, since the cost of AppleCare will, it seems, never be returned to the original purchaser, but only a fraction, in the sale. So if you're going to sell the computer, isn't it better to sell it under warranty, within one year of purchase, with the possibility available for the buyer to purchase AppleCare?


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

I typically don't think about the resale value of my brand-new Mac when I first get it.  I also only buy AppleCare near the end of the first year as APP (for me) is too much upfront with a Mac that already costs a fair amount.


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

I haven't purchased Applecare for a machine yet. (knock on wood, nothing has happened with any of my machines yet.)

Mind you, I usually get rid of my machine before the warranty expires. With the iMac, I didn't find it was necessary. The most probable thing that could go wrong with it is the HD or SD. The rest, I'll take my chances with.


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## jhollington (Jan 29, 2007)

I've bought Applecare on both my Powerbook and my wife's iBook and will continue to do so when I upgrade. I did buy Applecare for my Mac Mini, but that was more of a coin-flip, and it wasn't outrageously expensive for the Mini, so I figured why not.

I did buy Applecare for my 60GB 5G iPod about half-way through its life, but that turned out to be pointless (other than for my friend who now has my iPod  ). I generally replace my iPods once a year anyway as new models come out, so I've never actually had one beyond the normal one-year warranty period. Further, there are fewer things that can go wrong with an iPod than a notebook computer.

Actually, as an additional bonus, the Applecare for iPod offers free battery replacement if your battery falls below 50% of its expected life during the coverage period (which is only two years for an iPod). This is also a little bit more than a typical "extended warranty" would cover.


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## Deep Blue (Sep 16, 2005)

It would never have occurred to me to think that Applecare is anything but an extended warranty. I drop, I spill, I break...I pay.

I had the extra warranty year in mind when I bought my Imac on Mastercard but, realistically, I never really thought I'd ever get it. It's like insurance. I buy it for my house because I have to and it lends peace of mind BUT if the burns down or I make a claim I KNOW I will not be treated fairly nor get what I thought I was due. Insurance and warranties always work in favour of those who read and understand the fine print. That's how lawyers make a living.

BTW...a good case in point. We had torrential rain a year ago. The basement gets flooded. My wife, innocently calls the insurance company, for guidance. An assessor arrives within a flash (before I can head her off at the pass once I discover what my better half as set in motion.) No good. The insurer refused to cover the damage (which I knew already), did an unofficial inspection of our house, claimed all sorts of deficiencies, insisted we had made a "claim" and jacked up our insurance by 50%. Overnight! At the end of the next insurance period they jacked it up again and basically pushed us out the door. In 15 years of insurance coverage we only ever made one claim: for a camera that was stolen during a break in. Minimal - yet we got well and truly kicked in the teeth.

So warranty givers and insurers (for whatever product) - I only believe their promises once the money or replacement goods are in my hands.


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## artoo (Apr 17, 2006)

mikef said:


> Assuming that the Future Shop warranty is honored, it is absolutely no different than AppleCare... not sure why you think they're different.


I'm going to strongly disagree here.

Have you ever had to use a Futureshop Extended Warranty or Best Buy Performance Service Plan (PSP)? They tote them as being relatively cheap extended warranties that "guarantee" replacements. Sure, they may replace your product, but I had a horrible experience when I bought my first iPod (20gb 4th gen b/w). It broke down 15 months into the purchase, and when I brought it back to them, took them 60 days for me to get a result.

I had to call them every week for 8 weeks and every time I would get the same bull**** from their employees. At week 8 (60 days into this ordeal), I called the insurance company backing up Best Buy's PSP warranty and had to threaten legal action. They finally faxed me a piece of paper allowing me to get a full reimbursement in the form of store credit from that particular BB.

Granted, I could have got a full unit replacement for the credit that I received from their insurance company, but it took me 60 days to get it. Factor in time-value of money and the crap I had to go through, it was not worth it at all. I had no other mp3 player as I had dropped $400 on this iPod prior to it breaking, and went through two brutal months of commuting 1.5hrs a day without one.

Everyone I know that's bought this type of warranty or "service plan" has had similar experience especially with regards to wait time. This applies to both FS and BB service plans. Sure on some items like a plasma TV, I wouldn't mind waiting 60 days if it means I can trade up to the next model, but could you imagine being without an iPod or laptop for that long? I have had my laptop serviced under AppleCare warranty before, and I complained when I was without it for 5 business days.

Now really, I'm not knocking BB or FS warranty, but to claim it is the same as AppleCare extended is a sick joke. They are for different purposes.

Buy AppleCare if you want to maintain a working machine in a relatively fair amount of time. After 3-4 major repairs, start complaining to customer service and hopefully get a whole unit replacement.

Buy BB PSP or Futureshop service plans if you are willing to spend up to 60 days without your machine, don't mind receiving absolute terrible service, want to pay significantly less (for the warranty), and have a better possibility of trading up or getting a whole unit replacement.


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## absolutetotalgeek (Sep 18, 2005)

The only reason I find buying mac stuff at BB or FS good is that their 14 day warranty allows you to put the machine through it's paces and see if it holds together, if something breaks, get a new one. 

The last Mac I bought there, a 12" iBook G4, I took 3 of them back for faulty trackpads. Instant swap for a new one. The last one I got is still going strong.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Lars, I never undertstood Apple Care to be anything more than extended warranty. Not sure why anyone would think otherwise.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

csonni said:


> Lars, I never undertstood Apple Care to be anything more than extended warranty. Not sure why anyone would think otherwise.


Try working in Apple service for a while.  You get all sorts of characters explaining all kinds of versions of what AppleCare means _to them_. Humorous yet lame at the same time.


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## Jason H (Feb 1, 2004)

John Clay said:


> Jason - are you sure? The standard VISA/MasterCard policy is that it extends the manufacturers warranty, and doesn't include extended warranties, such as AppleCare.


me: i'm buying the extended warranty, does the extra year come on at the end of the 3 year from apple?
visa: yes, if anything happens pay for the repair with the visa and we will credit you


its an RBC gold visa if that makes any difference...


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## limabean (Aug 1, 2003)

*This is insurance*

i have applacare on my PB. I also have purchased from my home insurance company for $60/yr, insurance for my laptop. This covers coffee spills, drops, theft, and a number of other possible incidents...I did drop my PB 2 years ago and I got a new one, not from applecare but from my insurance carrier. Regardless... with both, AC and private insurance, I am completely covered.


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## ..........? (Dec 25, 2005)

I agree. Applecare is the same as the original warrenty. Applecare only extend the coverage period to 3 year which include the I year original warrenty (1 original + 2 extended year =3 year)
.


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## Starkicker (Jun 12, 2007)

I'm not yet a Mac user (still waiting on Leopard) but from what I've seen (read more like it) on this board, Mac users tend to be more tech savvy and generally more ethical is the word I'd like to use, but in actuality it's more like understanding towards problems.

When I read threads on ehmac, compared to say RFD or other sites, the general users tend to be much more articulate and understanding in the sense that they don't fly off the handle when things don't quite work out right. When I read sites like RFD et al; I tend to find more threads which read like: "OMG!!!!! My laptop broke and FS won't fix it HELP!!!!" or "store X or seedy salesguy Y won't honour a grey market deal", etc. Mac users on the other hand will try to figure out what's wrong, fix it themselves, get help from peers, then as a last resort go to Apple with their woes. Granted, my view of this is limited to the month or so I've been frequenting these forums, and not much else, but that's more my observations than anything else...

Non-Mac users seem to have a habit of tinkering or being rough (again a generalization) and then they complain when it breaks. If you buy a budget laptop, don't expect too much from it. If I was to buy a cheap product A from some unknown company vs. a fairly (inflated) priced product B from a well known and established company, I wouldn't expect much from product A. I would however expect more from product B. I recently bought a Dell laptop for my wife explicitly for the CompleteCare warranty. My wife is very rough with her stuff, and just expects it to work. I'd love to get her a Mac, but I think she's destroy it in no time.

Having said that, from what I can tell, AC seems like a really good warranty - I've tried to buy Dell parts for a non-warrantied notebook, a motherboard for a 4 year old laptop was upwards of $600 USD. I can buy a brand new laptop for a few hundred dollars more. When I purchase my MacBook, I'll definitely purchase AC, knowing full well that if I do something that damages it, I'll be on the hook to fix it.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

> ...a motherboard for a 4 year old laptop was upwards of $600 USD.


Don't expect out-of-warranty replacement Mac parts to be much cheaper, if at all. A replacement logic board (motherboard) for a MacBook hovers near the $800 mark, plus labor and taxes.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

I've found that at least 30% of the products I've bought extended warrantees on, I needed them. I needed to get 2 Apple computers fixed - a Quadra 650 and a Pismo Powerbook - and on top of it they replaced the whole logic board, processor and power board on the Powerbook. I had to get my rear projection TV fixed on Futureshop's extended warrantee (it took awhile but it's worked since). So I probably got my money's worth back. 

Things I've bought Extended Warrantees On: Apple Power Macs, Mac Pros, and Powerbooks/iBooks, TV, Xbox 360 

Things I haven't bought extended warrantees on: major kitchen appliances, TV, stereo, sander (I can't believe they offered it)


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

I didn't buy a $1.50 three-year warranty on a $4.95 TSCC lithium watch battery the other day. I don't like the instore non-brand for batteries, which was all they had, so I didn't buy the battery either.


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## gizmo321 (Oct 27, 2006)

I bought the APP for my MacBook a couple months ago. It just gives me a peace of mind that I can leave it on all day and not worry about a catastrophic failure. 
My MacBook was Rev A, which leaned me more towards buying the APP.


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## a7mc (Dec 30, 2002)

For me it all depends on the product, and the coverage. Although I don't like Futureshop's slow repair, the fact that they cover EVERYTHING, from the remote, to power cords, to the performance of the battery, is pretty good. And totally worth it for a laptop (you know you'll replace the battery at least once in 3 years... so the coverage is almost free).

While Apple won't cover all those things, the biggest selling point for Apple's APP is that you have up to one year to buy it. I LOVE that they don't pressure you into getting it and give you time to think it over and decide.

A7


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## cyber0066 (Aug 9, 2007)

I just bought my first macbook recently. I haven't gotten applecare yet, but the reason why I bought a mac was because I had the impression that it is a superior product in both quality and durability. I find it discouraging that people are needing to replace their logic boards or hard drives just after 1 year of using the laptop.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

duper said:


> The AppleCare Department at Apple really goes out of its way to emphasize that the AppleCare is not an extended warranty. Phone agents get deductions on their call handling if they refer to it as an extended warranty.
> 
> AppleCare is:
> -An extra 2 years hardware coverage
> ...


I don't understand that first statement.
I thought that's exactly what AppleCare is.......extended warranty.
If it's not extended warranty, could someone explain what AppleCare REALLY is?


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## Call me 'Sherman' (Nov 21, 2004)

Don't forget that part of the Applecare contract says that it does NOT cover "acts of God", among other things (theft, abuse, etc.)

I personally think that people just don't read they're warranties.


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