# AppleTV sales up 300%



## (( p g )) (Aug 17, 2002)

That's some hobby.


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## [email protected] (Sep 24, 2007)

That's pretty surprising...

Personally, I'm not interested in the Apple TV until either the price comes down or they add some sort of other functionality (DVR maybe, I don't know)...

My Xbox 360 costs less, does much of the same (except play iTunes DRM'd videos, plays music now), and plays games! (for less)...and the current interface (NXE) is pretty slick...


Regardless, interesting for sure...


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## benmossm (Mar 10, 2008)

Glad to see Apple is still continuing with it. I don't have any interest in it either, but from what I've seen it looks like a worthwhile product to keep on the market for now.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

We have two: one for downstairs and one for up. Great way to keep all the media material handy and an awesome way to rent movies. Two thumbs up! :clap: :clap:


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## JustAMacUser (Oct 21, 2007)

Now that we can rent directly from the unit and remotely control it with the Remote app, it's even more fantastic.

At my house we hardly go to Blockbuster anymore, just a few clicks on the Apple TV and we're watching a rental.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> That's pretty surprising...


Not really. The device has been steadily improved, and the people who own one LOVE IT. Sales of the device are almost 100% through word of mouth and in-home demonstration.

It's aimed at a certain demographic that is rather different than the demographic of the XBox. But the bottom line is that people who buy an AppleTV tend to really enjoy it and enthusiastically recommend it.


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## [email protected] (Sep 24, 2007)

chas_m said:


> Not really. The device has been steadily improved, and the people who own one LOVE IT. Sales of the device are almost 100% through word of mouth and in-home demonstration.
> 
> It's aimed at a certain demographic that is rather different than the demographic of the XBox. But the bottom line is that people who buy an AppleTV tend to really enjoy it and enthusiastically recommend it.



I think its surprising, I don't personally know one person who has an Apple TV, and people I talk to online are all Mac users (a smaller section of the market). 

What I think would make the Apple TV better is a price cut, even if that means removing some features (such as the hard drive which I still don't understand why its there, etc). 

If they had a $100 box that would make it super easy to stream all my iTunes content (specifically DRM'd videos, podcasts, etc), allow me to purchase content then store it to my computer's HD, I'd be interested...but at $250, meh not important enough to me (specially since I have a Rogers HD PVR with movie channels)...I'd imagine there are a number of people in the same position as I am...


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## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

(( p g )) said:


> That's some hobby.


Don't read too much into it. Apple doesn't say exactly how many units they sold so 300% is a meaningless "PR friendly" number without more data.


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## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

chas_m said:


> But the bottom line is that people who buy an AppleTV tend to really enjoy it and enthusiastically recommend it.


I'll be the contrarian then - the AppleTV sucks and Apple should fix it, make it better and stop charging almost $400US for a "hobby".


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## [email protected] (Sep 24, 2007)

ShawnKing said:


> I'll be the contrarian then - the AppleTV sucks and Apple should fix it, make it better and stop charging almost $400US for a "hobby".


To be fair, I think its about $250 CAN, and you can pick them up for $209ish ( from the refurb store...for the 40 gb...

But still, overpriced for the functionality it has...


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> I'd imagine there are a number of people in the same position as I am...


Yes there is, I worked out the math and there is a grand total of (drumroll please)... nine. 
I understand you "don't get it" (just like a lot of people "don't get" the Mac), but lots of other people do utilize the AppleTV to it's full potential even without hacking it.


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## [email protected] (Sep 24, 2007)

Bjornbro said:


> Yes there is, I worked out the math and there is a grand total of (drumroll please)... nine.
> I understand you "don't get it" (just like a lot of people "don't get" the Mac), but lots of other people do...


Yes, so many people get it that Apple has decided to keep it a hobby...

I guess I "don't get it"...


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

An ATV is a nice 'front end' for the iTunes store and not much more. Apple should give them away for free as a leader for said iTunes store.


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> Yes, so many people get it that Apple has decided to keep it a hobby...


Exactly! (And, by the way, the three free updates since Take 2 have made using the AppleTV even better. :clap: )

Meanwhile...


> When asked about the "digital living room opportunity and how it relates to Apple TV" during the last quarterly conference call in October, Steve Jobs replied, "well again I think the whole category is still a hobby right now. I don't think anybody has succeeded at it. And actually the experimentation has slowed down. *A lot of the early companies that were trying things have faded away.*"


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## [email protected] (Sep 24, 2007)

Bjornbro said:


> Exactly! (And, by the way, the three free updates since Take 2 have made using the AppleTV even better. :clap: )
> 
> Meanwhile...


I agree, nobody has succeeded at it. I got a free card for a digital download from the Bell Video store (which from a Windows machine can stream to an Xbox), it was a "bag of hurt", lol. 

As I said, I think the Apple TV is an interesting idea, just not a $250 idea...IMO there isn't $250 worth of value there...particularly when for $199 (can be had for $179 on sale) + $20 for Mac compatible software...and it is a leading video game console...

That's why I said it was a surprise...


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## Garry (Jan 27, 2002)

I've been sitting on the fence about buying an Apple TV, so I wandered to the Apple store in Market Mall to take a closer look. 
All I could think of while I was looking at it was "how is this different than video on demand from shaw" I know the pictures, etc.
I see where apple's trying to go with it, but I don't see much of an advantage. That's just me.


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## G-Mo (Sep 26, 2007)

I have two -- like someone else already said, one for the main floor entertainment space and another in our bedroom... I have over 10,000 songs and HOURS of movies and TV shows on a media server in our basement, and we use the AppleTV to listen to music or watch movies or TV shows in either location... not to mention rentals!!!


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> As I said, I think the Apple TV is an interesting idea, just not a $250 idea...IMO there isn't $250 worth of value there...


*CHALLENGE:*
Well let's see about that. Here's what I do with my AppleTV. (In no particular order) Can anyone show me a cheaper solution that, on demand, can:
Prerequisite: Device must be able to stream HD content from my Mac to my Hi-Def TV without any modification.

1. stream _all_ of my photos as organized in playlists from iPhoto and allow me to subscribe to friends' Flickr or .Mac (Mobile me) accounts to view _their_ photos?
2. stream _all_ of my homemade videos
3. stream my _whole_ DVD collection as organized in playlists from iTunes
4. stream _all_ of my music as organized in playlists from iTunes
5. allow me to watch any YouTube video
6. allow me to watch HD Podcasts
7. allow me to watch current HD movie trailers
8. allow me to browse, rent or buy HD Movies and TV Shows
9. allow me to browse, listen to samples and buy music from the world's largest online music store
10. (portability) take some or all of the above mentioned synched content stored on said device and easily connect to another Hi-Def TV without any overscan or underscan issues (I've had to do this when visiting older relatives who don't use the internet or even have a computer.)

And who knows, in future (software) revisions, allow me to play games from the iTunes app store using my iPod Touch as a remote.  :clap:


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## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

> I understand you "don't get it" (just like a lot of people "don't get" the Mac), but lots of other people do utilize the AppleTV to it's full potential even without hacking it.


That's just it in a nut shell. The XBox can do what the AppleTV does and is cheaper...but requires more user effort to get it working...the AppleTV on the other hand is an Apple product so its works rather well, looks good, integrates seemlessly with your Mac's and is more expensive. That's Apple. The same argument could be made for MacBooks etc... why pay $1300 for a Macbook when you can get a cheap dell and just hack OSX on it?

I have one and we use it primarily to stream out DVD library and rent movies in HD from Apple. Its also used to stream music and photo's but the #1 reason we have it over say an XBox is its dead simple to use so people like my Father in law who's never used a Mac can easily watch out movies etc.


> And who knows, in future (software) revisions, allow me to play games from the iTunes app store using my iPod Touch as a remote


I've been clamoring for that for months now. Its too obvious an avenue not to pursue.


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## mikeinmontreal (Oct 13, 2005)

I would love for Apple to include Safari for web browsing using the Touch or iPhone as a keyboard. My hacked ATV has the web browsing, but useless for me with the included remote.


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

mikeinmontreal said:


> I would love for Apple to include Safari for web browsing using the Touch or iPhone as a keyboard. My hacked ATV has the web browsing, but useless for me with the included remote.


That would be cool. If Apple ever translates some the iPod Touch's capability _then_ there would be a real surge in AppleTV sales! iPod Touch/iPhone owners (how many are there now?) would buy the AppleTV as an extension and vice versa. It's win-win I tell ya! :heybaby:


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## keebler27 (Jan 5, 2007)

Bjornbro said:


> *CHALLENGE:*
> Well let's see about that. Here's what I do with my AppleTV. (In no particular order) Can anyone show me a cheaper solution that, on demand, can:
> Prerequisite: Device must be able to stream HD content from my Mac to my Hi-Def TV without any modification.
> 
> ...


bjornbro, you can send me a PM if you like, but what do you use to store all this media?

I'm asking b/c i'm VERY interested in the appletv and am trying to find a home media server solution. I know there are posts on this subject, but if you can, let me know what you're using. As I read your post, I went check, check, check, etc.. for each one that I want to do 

cheers,
Keebler


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## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

> bjornbro, you can send me a PM if you like, but what do you use to store all this media?


I can't speak for him but I have a 1TB USB drive hanging of our iMac that has all our media on it. Its about 2/3's full at the moment.


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## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> If they had a $100 box that would make it super easy to stream all my iTunes content (specifically DRM'd videos, podcasts, etc), allow me to purchase content then store it to my computer's HD, I'd be interested...but at $250, meh not important enough to me (specially since I have a Rogers HD PVR with movie channels)...I'd imagine there are a number of people in the same position as I am...


Sorry, but such a thing costs more than $100. It'd be nice if Mac Pros only cost $499, but such is life.


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## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> To be fair, I think its about $250 CAN, and you can pick them up for $209ish ( from the refurb store...for the 40 gb...
> 
> But still, overpriced for the functionality it has...


That's BS. It's an iPod for your TV with more functionality. Heck, an iPod, remote control, external video cable costs a heck of a lot more than an AppleTV, and you don't have all of the functionality the Apple TV has. (YouTube, networking, rental on box, etc.)

But feel free to start your own company and make $100 media center box and get rich.


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## [email protected] (Sep 24, 2007)

hayesk said:


> That's BS. It's an iPod for your TV with more functionality. Heck, an iPod, remote control, external video cable costs a heck of a lot more than an AppleTV, and you don't have all of the functionality the Apple TV has. (YouTube, networking, rental on box, etc.)
> 
> But feel free to start your own company and make $100 media center box and get rich.


I compared it to an Xbox which does do most of those (minus YouTube, I don't consider that a huge loss without a keyboard, and even then the quality on a large screen is meh) which does most of those and costs less (stream music, video, pictures, video rentals, etc)...and plays games


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## [email protected] (Sep 24, 2007)

hayesk said:


> Sorry, but such a thing costs more than $100. It'd be nice if Mac Pros only cost $499, but such is life.


How come the Xbox is cheaper and does more? 

I think the Xbox, despite being targeted towards a different market initially, is a big slap in the face for the Apple TV...

It's marginally harder to set up, but even then not really..and NXE is a pretty slick UI


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## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

The economics of scale help MS sell the XBox for what it is going for...and its still likely at a loss. I was being sold at a loss when it was first brought out and was much higher priced at that point.


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## [email protected] (Sep 24, 2007)

Andrew Pratt said:


> The economics of scale help MS sell the XBox for what it is going for...and its still likely at a loss. I was being sold at a loss when it was first brought out and was much higher priced at that point.


Oh I totally agree, economies of have a lot to do with the price. Although I think in the last 6 months they have started to turn a profit on it (at the lower price point even). As well they have other sources of revenue such as licensing fees from games. 

Don't get me wrong, as I've said in a few posts, I think the IDEA of an ATV is good, but the current implementation for the current price, with the current competition...I'm surprised it did as well. Although I am glad, I think digital distribution is the way to go (hence why I don't have a Blu ray).


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

I'd like to see bluetooth keyboard & usb external drive support right out of the box without hacking. I think this is something apple could easily implement and should ASAP. Also, they could probably turn it into a wireless bridge really easily (to share it's connection with other wired devices). Also add basic internet browsing.

Also, fix that annoying habit of them turning on by themselves....


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

ShawnKing said:


> Don't read too much into it. Apple doesn't say exactly how many units they sold so 300% is a meaningless "PR friendly" number without more data.


Well no, it means something even without exact figures.

If they sold one unit in the prior quarter and three units this quarter, then sales are up 300%. That's good news no matter how you slice it.

For me it indicates that the AppleTV was a popular gift option, and as reflected in other comments its not something many Mac geeks buy for themselves, but if given one they usually love it to pieces.

I agree with you that we'll see if this upward trend continues before calling it a trend, but even without exact figures (which by their omission probably means they're very low by Apple standards) it's not meaningless. Up is still up, and unless 66% of the units bought last quarter are returned this quarter, it's still good news -- particularly for those of us who want development on it to continue.


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## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

chas_m said:


> Well no, it means something even without exact figures.


Sure, if you want to split that hair. I have no interest in doing so.


> If they sold one unit in the prior quarter and three units this quarter, then sales are up 300%. That's good news no matter how you slice it.


Ummm...no, it wouldn't be.


> it's still good news -- particularly for those of us who want development on it to continue.


Dress it up however you'd like - it's still BS PR spin from Apple.

Do you really believe that if the AppleTV was a huge success a la the iPod/iMac, that Apple wouldn't be shouting from the rooftops? Instead, we get doublespeak like "It's still a hobby" and "up 300% (from an unknown figure)".

Crap is still crap even if it is coming out of the mouth of the acting CEO.


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## jicon (Jan 12, 2005)

I've got one, use it often, but out of the box, AppleTV isn't that great of a product compared to others... but it plays most iTunes content fine.

Biggest complaint: The menus ensure that you are focused on either renting, or buying content from iTMS, instead of getting to your media (Last item on menu lists)

No audiobook support.

I've got a tonne of other media in DivX/XVid format that I can't play by default on the device. In order to play it, I need to hack the box. Every time an update to the AppleTV software is shipped, be sure to back up your files on the box, and hack again.

A PS3, and specifically Windows has a much better system for someone in my dilemma (Underpowered Macmini, so no, I can't run much in terms of OS Services, or spend the time ripping my video once again for iTunes)

Drop files in to a folder in Windows. If Media Player knows of the file changes, it appears in the PS3 XMB for instant play.

I've seen a few programs out there for streaming video out to your TV devices, but so far, the PS3 and Windows seem to be the easiest.


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

I got one for Christmas. Actually I got it on sale during the Black Friday sale.


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## pangolin (Jun 22, 2008)

jicon said:


> I've got one, use it often, but out of the box, AppleTV isn't that great of a product compared to others... but it plays most iTunes content fine.
> 
> Biggest complaint: The menus ensure that you are focused on either renting, or buying content from iTMS, instead of getting to your media (Last item on menu lists)
> 
> ...


Convert you avi/divx into mp4 h264 format and you're good to go.

You can visit this site for things you can if you do not want to hack your ATV.

The Alternative to Hacking - AwkwardTV


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

When we had ours playing over the Christmas holidays, the _screensaver alone_ was enough to turn our relatives' heads. Being PC users, most of them, none had even heard of the TV before. But people will pay close to $200 for a silly little picture frame that shows ONE digital picture at a time. So to see a whole screenful of family photos floating by in 3D with their little pirouette every 20 seconds or so, well, that was worth $250 all by itself.

Plus movie rentals/purchases. Plus music. Plus YouTube. Plus iPod Touch/iPhone compatibility as a remote. Plus TV shows I've recorded with the Elgato. Plus…


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

ShawnKing said:


> Do you really believe that if the AppleTV was a huge success a la the iPod/iMac, that Apple wouldn't be shouting from the rooftops?


You're misunderstanding me. I didn't say it was a success (nor did Cook). By Apple's standards for consumer products, it is pretty obviously not one, which is why they keep using the world "hobby" as shorthand for "doesn't sell well and hasn't made us any money, but we believe in it so we're going to keep developing it."

All I'm saying here is that sales are up on it, and Apple's happy about that, but CLEARLY its nowhere near the level a Wall Street analyst would consider successful, so they don't discuss exact figures.

Bearing in mind WHO Cook was speaking to, I think he took exactly the right tack: it's doing better so we're not going to kill it [ie torpedoing the rumour mill], but it's not the droids you're looking for and let's move on. <waves hand>

All I'm saying is that "BS" isn't really the right term unless you think Cook is lying. Apple USUALLY doesn't disclose precise sales figures on a model-by-model basis.

What he said is true -- sales of AppleTV are up. What he left out isn't important to what he wanted to communicate.


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

keebler27 said:


> bjornbro, you can send me a PM if you like, but what do you use to store all this media?


It all started with two 750GB Seagate FreeAgent FW external hard drives... One to host my iTunes media library and the other as duplicate backup. Now I'm looking to move up to two 1.5TB Seagate FreeAgent Desk FW (Mac) external drives to give more growing room. My Canon HV30 HD DV camera is packing on the GigaBytes.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

Those who complain about AppleTV's functionality or those surprised about how well the AppleTV is selling are the ones who don't actually understand the purpose behind the AppleTV.

The AppleTV isn't a PVR because that isn't _at all_ its intended purpose. If you need a PVR, go buy one.


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## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

Lars said:


> Those who complain about AppleTV's functionality or those surprised about how well the AppleTV is selling are the ones who don't actually understand the purpose behind the AppleTV.


That would be incorrect. I completely understand "the purpose behind the AppleTV" and yet I still complain about its functionality and/or lack thereof.


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

ShawnKing said:


> ...and yet I still complain about its functionality and/or lack thereof.


Care to elaborate? Knowing you're a "Mac Guy" Shawn, I'm surprised you have complaints against the intended design/use of the AppleTV. Now if you were one of those guys who insisted iPods should have had a built-in FM radio tuner, then I guess I'll know where you're comin' from.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

ShawnKing said:


> That would be incorrect. I completely understand "the purpose behind the AppleTV" and yet I still complain about its functionality and/or lack thereof.


Which one are you -- Statler or Waldorf?









:lmao:


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## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

Bjornbro said:


> Care to elaborate?


1) You can't delete files directly from the AppleTV.

2) You need to keep a copy of the file on a separate computer. So AppleTV can't be used as a storage device.

3) Movie rentals have to wait for a month but I can buy immediately (a problem with Apple's deal with the movie studios, I know)

4) Various UI quirks and foibles

5) I have to encode files specifically for the AppleTV. Even some .mov and native QT files don't work.


> Knowing you're a "Mac Guy" Shawn, I'm surprised you have complaints against the intended design/use of the AppleTV.


Just because I'm a "Mac Guy" doesn't mean I slavishly believe everything that comes out of 1 Infinite Loop has been touched by the hand of God. 


> Now if you were one of those guys who insisted iPods should have had a built-in FM radio tuner, then I guess I'll know where you're comin' from.


To be clear, I think an FM Tuner in the iPod is a *stupid* idea.


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## (( p g )) (Aug 17, 2002)

Gosh, folks, I had no idea this thread would generate so much discussion. While I don't agree with Shawn's assessment of AppleTV, I do respect his point of view that he finds the product is still lacking in some respects. I do have to take issue with the notion of calling Apple on "BS PR spin." That almost seems to imply that this is some kind of out-of-the-ordinary behaviour for our friends at Infinite Loop or heck _any_ company out there that has inventory to move and stockholders to placate. That's just 'bidness.

About the product...I was not a fan when it first came out. I still think it's hobbled in some respects and that this has far more to do with ridiculously restrictive and archaic copyright plus broadcasting laws than it does with lousy product design. I was sold on buying mine when I realized it was cheaper alternative for renting/buying movies than Rogers-on-demand...more convenient than having to manage a stack of CDs & DVDs...that it *can* broadcast internet radio just by making the right tweaks...and that it is a much needed solution (in our family, at least) for showing photos. 

By repeating the hobby remark, I thought Cook made it pretty clear that Apple still has very modest expectations for this product. But there is at least evidence--even in a really, really bad economy--that sales for this thing are moving in an upwardly direction...and that can only be a good thing. I'd worry a lot more if Apple was sinking buckets of millions into this and getting nowhere, like say these guys. But that's not the case...at least as is my understanding.

Anyhow, this is all just opinion, folks. We're all entitled.



ShawnKing said:


> Just because I'm a "Mac Guy" doesn't mean I slavishly believe everything that comes out of 1 Infinite Loop has been touched by the hand of God.


Amen to that, brother. Amen.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

ShawnKing said:


> 2) You need to keep a copy of the file on a separate computer. So AppleTV can't be used as a storage device.


While not taking issue with any of your other valid points, I am pretty sure you are incorrect about this one. I've put photos, videos and music on an AppleTV and then removed them from my computer. You just don't re-sync the AppleTV ever again. 

(before you roll your eyes, I know QUITE a few parents that did exactly this -- loaded the ATV to full with every kids movie they own, and they're done with it. Now the kids have a PORTABLE video library they can take when go to the relatives'/friends, and dozens of movies and other videos to watch!)

Another way of keeping the files on the AppleTV that works WITHOUT losing the sync is to just option-drag the files into iTunes. This keeps the "reference" in iTunes (and thus the file on the AppleTV when you sync), but that actual file can be stored on an external drive or even (if you delete from the Finder) thrown away.



> 5) I have to encode files specifically for the AppleTV. Even some .mov and native QT files don't work.


A legitimate complaint (c'mon Apple, at least support DIVX!), but not that much of an issue. Let VisualHub chew on em overnight, and voila.



> Just because I'm a "Mac Guy" doesn't mean I slavishly believe everything that comes out of 1 Infinite Loop has been touched by the hand of God.


BLASPHEMER!! KILL THE HERETIC!!!





> To be clear, I think an FM Tuner in the iPod is a *stupid* idea.


+1!


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

Interestingly, this piece from 1994 sold from a Maple Ridge, B.C. seller just today on eBay:










Apple Interactive Television Box - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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