# Vote Compass



## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

Vote Compass

Interesting site. I knew where i stand politically so it wasn't a surprise, but on another forum many people were surprised by where they were aligned.

The more interesting thing is just to see all the other parties clustered together on the spectrum, while the conservatives are by themselves on the other side of chart. The Left's cannibalizing itself is the only reason for Harper ever getting elected.

Bring back the Reform party!


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

And that's the left's fault. Period. Full stop.

Looked at another way, Harper got elected because his team was first past the post. It's that simple. Enough people voted for him and not enough for the people you and I prefer. That's the game.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Actually Harper got elected because of the sponsorship scandal,
Nothing to do with any real merits on the PC side really, Just opportunity.

Now all he needs is another opportunity,
But I highly doubt he's going to get it.

Perhaps that's why he keeps repeating over and over in his sleep...

Coalition!!!

LOL


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

Max said:


> And that's the left's fault. Period. Full stop.
> 
> Looked at another way, Harper got elected because his team was first past the post. It's that simple. Enough people voted for him and not enough for the people you and I prefer. That's the game.


In the past the saving grace of Harper's election attributed to FPTP for the left is the concentration of the Conservative's support principally to the western lands and in particular the flat parts.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

Well that was fun.

South East quadrant as expected...but not too far south. LOL


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

I too confirmed where I stood politically by the use of the Vote Compass.

I would also like to see the tool the CBC used in the past. 

Answering questions in the similar manner of strongly agree thru strongly disagree. The questionnaire filled out was based upon Party policy.

It was informative with regard to the party's positions and how much you agreed or disagreed with a party.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

i-rui said:


> Vote Compass
> 
> Interesting site. I knew where i stand politically so it wasn't a surprise, but on another forum many people were surprised by where they were aligned.
> 
> ...


The first time I did it I was shocked -- Bloc. The second time I did it my result was closer to the party platform I support, in part -- Liberal. For those elections here in Canada in which I have been allowed to vote, I have voted for the Conservatives, the Green Party, the Liberals and the NDP, the latter two more than once.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

kps said:


> Well that was fun.
> 
> South East quadrant as expected...but not too far south. LOL


A little southeast of you.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

kps said:


> Well that was fun.
> 
> South East quadrant as expected...but not too far south. LOL


That is so close to my result it is scary.  Could have superimposed one over the other and seen no change.


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

Max said:


> And that's the left's fault. Period. Full stop.
> 
> Looked at another way, Harper got elected because his team was first past the post. It's that simple. Enough people voted for him and not enough for the people you and I prefer. That's the game.


i wouldn't say it's the Left's "fault", but i do agree that is the game.

I actually think having 3 parties for the Left is a good. thing. It's choice, and that choice is healthy for democracy. The other option is to reduce the left to one party, and then we have a system like the States which is just a partisan mess where actual policy and issues are meaningless.

If the right side had 2 (or even 3) parties the nation would benefit as the political landscape would be much more accurate.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Mine came up "Green" funny really because I also got the extra questions afterwards:



> Your thoughts on the election and politics
> 
> Using a scale from 1 to 10, where 1 means no interest at all and 10 means a great deal of interest, how interested are you in the federal election?
> Using the same scale, how interested are you in politics in general?
> ...


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

BigDL said:


> I too confirmed where I stood politically by the use of the Vote Compass.
> 
> I would also like to see the tool the CBC used in the past.
> 
> ...


I thought it was the "PCBC"
Mostly because of the questions they asked.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

Didn't bother with this test but I took a similar test via another forum a few years back. This is what the chart looked like.


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

Not to surprising, but in some ways, a little reassuring... I'm about as fiscally dead-centre as I thought.

EDIT: And yet, it shows Iggy as my absolute least favoured pick for Prime Minister.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

I think being able to rank the relevance of the questions would give a more accurate result. 

As an example I consider getting our butts out of Afghanistan and Libya as very important. Ditto balancing the budget.

Hardly an attitude that would have me leaning somewhat towards the Cons.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

Macfury said:


> A little southeast of you.





SINC said:


> That is so close to my result it is scary.  Could have superimposed one over the other and seen no change.


As expected....

I think three things put me where I ended up. My stance on a strong defence even though I think we should get out of Afghanistan, my support of same sex marriage and my view on the criminality of Marijuana. The latter two are really a non issue to me, so....live and let live.


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

eMacMan said:


> I think being able to rank the relevance of the questions would give a more accurate result.
> 
> As an example I consider getting our butts out of Afghanistan and Libya as very important. Ditto balancing the budget.
> 
> Hardly an attitude that would have me leaning somewhat towards the Cons.


after the survey you can click to select what sections you view as very important and not important, and then your position is recalculated.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I don't find the results of most of those questionnaires very accurate. For example, most of them assume that my personal beliefs would be translated to a desire to see them reflected in public policy.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

I share your scepticism about these questionnaires. They put you in the ballpark but there's also lots of room for variable interpretation. Not very scientific, but great for a conversation starter.


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## wwj (May 21, 2003)

Macfury said:


> I don't find the results of most of those questionnaires very accurate. For example, most of them assume that my personal beliefs would be translated to a desire to see them reflected in public policy.





Max said:


> I share your scepticism about these questionnaires. They put you in the ballpark but there's also lots of room for variable interpretation. Not very scientific, but great for a conversation starter.



I agree with you both -- surveys suck. It’s unfortunate that so much stock is put in them, because they can be imprecise and give a misleading impression. Most of them use a question construction called “forced answer” which means you have to choose from a number of options, even if your response doesn’t really coincide with any of the options. Or the options presume that you know something that you may not know. I'd guess that's what you were on about Max.

How much should the rich be taxed? -- More? How much more? And what are the criteria for “rich”?

Where do you get most of your info about the election? -- What if you read more than 1 newspaper, plus magazines, watch many TV stations, tap web sources, etc. etc. The question forces you to choose.

Which one for Prime Minister? -- I have little respect for them all, and would prefer not to vote for any of them. But the question forces me to select the “best” candidate, and my choice is calculated into the survey results.

As I’ve said in an earlier post, for me personally this election requires choosing the lesser of 5 evils to lead my country. Not surprisingly, when I cast my ballot on May 2 I’ll be exercising my franchise, but my heart won’t be in it.


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## Mckitrick (Dec 25, 2005)

Well according to this thing I'm bluer than I thought. Pretty much right in line with KPS and SINC.
Always thought myself a liberal actually...


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

i-rui said:


> If the right side had 2 (or even 3) parties the nation would benefit as the political landscape would be much more accurate.


Perhaps the Wild Rose Party would provide an alternative for some Canadians. I too would like to see more political diversity on the right -- I get nervous with any political party that demands a lot of rigidity of (public) position and "discipline in ranks."

PS. As an immigrant to this country I should add that although the scale reads the same as US-based political-spectrum tests, I can assure those of you who ended up on the "CON" side of the vertical line that the results would be WILDLY different if you took the test using US-based questions. And you lefties probably wouldn't even show up on a US-based scale!


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## MLeh (Dec 23, 2005)

I'm smack dab in the middle, on the crosshairs of social liberalism and conservatism, just a shade to the right on economics, exactly halfway between red and blue.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

chas_m said:


> Perhaps the Wild Rose Party would provide an alternative for some Canadians. I too would like to see more political diversity on the right -- I get nervous with any political party that demands a lot of rigidity of (public) position and "discipline in ranks."
> 
> PS. As an immigrant to this country I should add that although the scale reads the same as US-based political-spectrum tests, I can assure those of you who ended up on the "CON" side of the vertical line that the results would be WILDLY different if you took the test using US-based questions. And you lefties probably wouldn't even show up on a US-based scale!


An interesting observation, chas_m. Sadly, the liberal Republicans in the US are become harder and harder to find in the hall of Congress. Paix, mon ami.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

chas_m said:


> And you lefties probably wouldn't even show up on a US-based scale!


Sure they would--they'd be voting for Harry Reid.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Dr.G. said:


> An interesting observation, chas_m. Sadly, the liberal Republicans in the US are become harder and harder to find in the hall of Congress. Paix, mon ami.


Mr. G: Don't worry, the job will be finished shortly. And there's a guarantee against re-infestation within four years.


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## bryanc (Jan 16, 2004)

*pretty much as expected...*

As seems to be true of me in general, I'm way out on the edge.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

bryanc said:


> As seems to be true of me in general, I'm way out on the edge.


I doubt the ideal candidate exists for you--outside of Albania.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Macfury said:


> Mr. G: Don't worry, the job will be finished shortly. And there's a guarantee against re-infestation within four years.


Right on, Brother Macfury. Imagine a Republican ticket of Congresswoman Michelle Bachmann and Senator Rand Paul for president and vice president. You may switch the two around if you want, but the ticket will be one that is strong and will finally get America's fiscal house in order. 

Sarah Palin could be the Sect. of State in this administration. Sadly, Milton Friedman is no longer with us, or else he could head up the newly creaded Economic Department, which would be a combination of all the departments that currently deal with monetary policy.

The new administration would bring about a pseudo-FDR NRA -- The National Recovery Act, which would help America to recover from the spending days of the Bush/Clinton/Bush/Obama administrations. Taxes and spending would be rolled back so much that you would think that Tim Hortons had a "roll back the rim to win" campaign in the US.

We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

There's a tear in my eye, Dr. G....


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Macfury said:


> There's a tear in my eye, Dr. G....


:-( Now you have me crying, Macfury. We shall most likely have another Obama administration due to the factions within the Republican Party. Then, he will turn his attention to social issues that help ordinary people but will cost billions, as well as environmental protection issues and funding the opportunities for green technology that will cost trillions. God only knows what will happen to the tax breaks to the wealthiest 1% in America. 

“The art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain the largest possible amount of feathers with the smallest possible amount of hissing”.

Well, until Americans wake up and reset their priorities to paying less taxes and giving less services to most, especially to those who pay little or no taxes, there is going to be a great deal of "hissing" in the US. We shall see.

Paix, mon ami. Partners in Faith ...... Brothers in Tears.


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## ertman (Jan 15, 2008)

I am basically directly between the liberals and conservatives. Pretty much where I thought I would be. I really dislike voting for a specific party, so I would vote for the party that best reflects my views.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

*CBC's voter quiz tool flawed, prof says*



> Queen's University political science professor Kathy Brock says the state broadcaster's Vote Compass online survey tool is flawed and tells people they're Liberal by default...
> 
> Brock said she completed the survey three times using three distinct strategies, and was aligned each time with the Liberal party.
> 
> ...


CBC's voter quiz tool flawed, prof says


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

Way to selectively quote!



> Cliff van der Linden, a Toronto researcher who developed the tool, said Brock received those responses because *the questions are equally split between the left and right side of the political spectrum*.
> 
> "So if you answer all one way or another, *you're going to end up answering half left and half right -- and end up in the middle*."


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

i-rui said:


> Way to selectively quote!


Yep... I thought you would appreciated that...

I didn't know I had to quote the whole story.... seems when it suites you, you do the same.

It still does not account for the Queens professor's findings....


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## Dr T (May 16, 2009)

screature said:


> CBC's voter quiz tool flawed, prof says


"The final questions in the survey pertain to leaders. They ask respondents to rank candidates for prime minister based on trustworthiness and competence. Brock said she selected the "I don't know" option for all the leader questions, every time.

"Every time, it told me I was politically centred and should vote Liberal," Brock said...."

Yeah, that sounds about right. The other parties, Green, Bloc, NDP, Harper-Conservative, all actually stand for something.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

The Vote Compass is sooo indicative of our times.... No need to think for yourself just let an App tell you how to vote... And the CBC were brilliant enough to come up with the idea...


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

screature said:


> The Vote Compass is sooo indicative of our times.... No need to think for yourself just let an App tell you how to vote... And the CBC were brilliant enough to come up with the idea...


Don't think anyone is going to let this app tell them how to vote. I am voting NDP and I had my mind made up when our current MP, Jack Harris of the NDP, declared that he would be running again in St.John's East. The first time I tried that Vote Compass, it had me dead on with the Bloc ....... who are not even running in NL. The next time it had me with the Liberals. The third time with the Green Party. Slowly but surely I am getting closer to the NDP.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Dr.G. said:


> Don't think anyone is going to let this app tell them how to vote. I am voting NDP and I had my mind made up when our current MP, Jack Harris of the NDP, declared that he would be running again in St.John's East. The first time I tried that Vote Compass, it had me dead on with the Bloc ....... who are not even running in NL. The next time it had me with the Liberals. The third time with the Green Party. Slowly but surely I am getting closer to the NDP.


So what is the point...? And yes maybe some people will let the App dictate their vote... I am constantly amazed by the ignorance of some people (not speaking of anyone here.. that I know of).


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

screature said:


> So what is the point...? And yes maybe some people will let the App dictate their vote... I am constantly amazed by the ignorance of some people (not speaking of anyone here.. that I know of).


I can't see how anyone would use this program to decide how to vote. Yes, it helps a bit to see what some of the views/positions of the various parties, but should not be used to determine one's vote. The fact that I was first placed right with the Bloc proves to me that there is something flawed in this program, since I did NOT rate any Quebec-only issue or leader highly.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Dr.G. said:


> I can't see how anyone would use this program to decide how to vote. Yes, it helps a bit to see what some of the views/positions of the various parties, but should not be used to determine one's vote. The fact that I was first placed right with the Bloc proves to me that there is something flawed in this program, since I did NOT rate any Quebec-only issue or leader highly.


Ok so you agree with the Queens University professor at least to some degree.... It is a flawed App.... that alone should be enough for the CBC, if they are actually a "public" broadcaster to take it down.

I think you give too much credit to the average Canadian's involvement in politics if you think that this App will not affect anyone's decision...

The App is flawed... and for decisions as important as this an "App" should not make up your mind for you or even offer a suggestion, It was irresponsible for the CBC to post it in the first place.

It should be taken down... It is not kosher for *THE* public broadcaster of Canada to use the "coding" of *one* individual who was paid by the CBC to even remotely affect the outcome of the election.

At least when we listen to reports/opinions form individuals we have the knowledge/suspicion of their interests.... 

An App intrinsically to many people seems to be "disinterested"... although some of us know that not to be the case, but to the uninitiated it could seem as if the App is 'Objective" which it is not.


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

screature said:


> Yep... I thought you would appreciated that...
> 
> I didn't know I had to quote the whole story.... seems when it suites you, you do the same.
> 
> *It still does not account for the Queens professor's findings....*


the quote i selected *DIRECTLY* explains her results.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

i-rui said:


> the quote i selected *DIRECTLY* explains her results.


It does not in the least... look at the subsequent post.



Dr T said:


> *"The final questions in the survey pertain to leaders. They ask respondents to rank candidates for prime minister based on trustworthiness and competence. Brock said she selected the "I don't know" option for all the leader questions, every time.*
> 
> *"Every time, it told me I was politically centred and should vote Liberal," Brock said...."*


Explain that.


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

screature said:


> It does not in the least... look at the subsequent post.
> 
> 
> 
> Explain that.


She answered politically central on the 30 questions, that established her as "in the center", which means Liberal policy is the one most aligned with her answers.

then she answered "don't know" for all the questions regarding the Leaders....which makes those answers mean nothing in the calculation of where she stands politically.

What's not to understand?


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

i-rui said:


> the quote i selected *DIRECTLY* explains her results.





i-rui said:


> She answered politically central on the 30 questions, that established her as "in the center", which means Liberal policy is the one most aligned with her answers.
> 
> then she answered "don't know" for all the questions regarding the Leaders....which makes those answers mean nothing in the calculation of where she stands politically.
> 
> What's not to understand?


I see so the Liberals are the defacto centre party... that's what's not to understand...


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

so the ndp and green aren't to the left? and the conservatives aren't to the right?


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## woodandbronze (Feb 21, 2008)

screature said:


> CBC's voter quiz tool flawed, prof says


I'm a Montrealer and got the shock of my life when the app aligned me with the Bloc... twice!  A few colleagues I know who tried it out got the same thing. Definitely flawed, but it got it right in that we're all left of centre.


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

woodandbronze said:


> I'm a Montrealer and got the shock of my life when the app aligned me with the Bloc... twice!  A few colleagues I know who tried it out got the same thing. Definitely flawed, but it got it right in that we're all left of centre.


I'm not familiar enough with Bloc policy to see why this would occur, but you can actually go through the specific questions to see where each party stands on the issues, and can further "weigh" each question as being very important, or not important. just click "analyze your position" on the "results" page.

I'm sure if you tweaked it you could get an accurate reading.


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## MacGuiver (Sep 6, 2002)

i-rui said:


> so the ndp and green aren't to the left? and the conservatives aren't to the right?


I don't see much difference between the NDP and the Liberals these days. If the NDP are considered far left then the Liberals are right there with them. 

Cheers
MacGuiver


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

lol

i'm guessing you're a conservative?

I'm sure ndp supporters would see liberals as right of center.


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## MacGuiver (Sep 6, 2002)

i-rui said:


> lol
> 
> i'm guessing you're a conservative?
> 
> I'm sure ndp supporters would see liberals as right of center.


Hello i-rui,

Yes I'm a conservative but what issues do you see dividing the two parties?

Cheers
MacGuiver


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Th Voter Compass is clearly flawed... it is skewed to the left (but that isn't really surprising considering it comes from the CBC... ) as if you are even remotely centrist that means you should vote Liberal, the CPC has demonstrated with its policies that is has significantly moved to the centre and the Libs have been moving to the left to steal NDP voters... 

Why should the "public" broadcaster even be putting such an "App" out there... It is a flawed concept built on flawed premises delivering flawed results. Period.


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

MacGuiver said:


> Hello i-rui,
> 
> Yes I'm a conservative but what issues do you see dividing the two parties?
> 
> ...


between the NDP and Liberals?

The NDP want Canada out of Afghanistan, the Liberals don't.

The NDP want the senate abolished, the Liberals don't.

The NDP wants less Federal control of Quebec, the Liberals want more.

On the environment & economy the Liberals have a more moderate stance than the NDP.



screature said:


> Th Voter Compass is clearly flawed... it is skewed to the left (but that isn't really surprising considering it comes from the CBC... )


spoken like a true conservative....err... i mean "non-partisan".



screature said:


> T the CPC has demonstrated with its policies that is has significantly moved to the centre and the Libs have been moving to the left to steal NDP voters...


I love it. Somehow Harper is now the center. So who's heading up the right side of Canadian politics now? Mussolini??

Only a conservative would move the political center to the right and then claim that Harper has truly become centrist. Because Multi-Billion dollar jets & prisons are clearly centrist policies.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

CBC vote quiz creator worked for Ignatieff



> OTTAWA - The CBC keeps things in the family.
> 
> The state broadcaster built an online voting tool that's under fire for having a Liberal bias.
> 
> *And it turns out one of the key people behind CBC's Vote Compass worked as a policy advisor on Michael Ignatieff's Liberal leadership campaign in 2006*....


No nothing to see here... nothing at all.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

screature said:


> CBC vote quiz creator worked for Ignatieff
> 
> 
> 
> No nothing to see here... nothing at all.


:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

Typical CBC bias.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

i-rui said:


> ...spoken like a true conservative....err... i mean "non-partisan".
> 
> I love it. Somehow Harper is now the center. So who's heading up the right side of Canadian politics now? Mussolini??
> 
> Only a conservative would move the political center to the right and then claim that Harper has truly become centrist. Because Multi-Billion dollar jets & prisons are clearly centrist policies.



Your labelling of others is truly tiresome and disrespectful. I have made my voting intentions known and the reasons for them. I belong to no political party and have voted for all 3 major political parties at one time or another depending on the circumstances.

The proof of how close the CPC and the Libs are to occupying the same political space is in the legislation that the Liberals have actually supported since the Cons have been in government. All the while remembering this has been a minority government that they have propped up for over 5 years.

Of course there are policy differences as there are with any political party but it is only recently that the Libs have started to redefine themselves, most notably moving to the left to try and steal the NDP vote, which the latest polls are indicating they are doing successfully.

Just as an example of how the Libs have agreed with the Cons is the legislation that they supported and therefore share the same political space as it in every case is solely up to them to allow or not allow a Bill to pass given the past make up of the House. Here is a small sample for just 2 years, I could go on and on...

But I hate scrolling...

40th Parliament, 3rd Session 
(March 3, 2010 - March 26, 2011)


C-2 
An Act to implement the Free Trade Agreement between Canada and the Republic of Colombia, the Agreement on the Environment between Canada and the Republic of Colombia and the Agreement on Labour Cooperation between Canada and the Republic of Colombia
(Canada-Colombia Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act) 

C-3 
An Act to promote gender equity in Indian registration by responding to the Court of Appeal for British Columbia decision in McIvor v. Canada (Registrar of Indian and Northern Affairs)
(Gender Equity in Indian Registration Act) 

C-9 
An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 4, 2010 and other measures
(Jobs and Economic Growth Act) 

C-11 
An Act to amend the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and the Federal Courts Act
(Balanced Refugee Reform Act) 

C-13 
An Act to amend the Employment Insurance Act
(Fairness for Military Families (Employment Insurance) Act) 

C-14 
An Act to amend the Electricity and Gas Inspection Act and the Weights and Measures Act
(Fairness at the Pumps Act) 

C-21 
An Act to amend the Criminal Code (sentencing for fraud)
(Standing up for Victims of White Collar Crime Act) 

C-22 
An Act respecting the mandatory reporting of Internet child pornography by persons who provide an Internet service

C-23A 
An Act to amend the Criminal Records Act 
(Limiting Pardons for Serious Crimes Act) 

C-28 
An Act to promote the efficiency and adaptability of the Canadian economy by regulating certain activities that discourage reliance on electronic means of carrying out commercial activities, and to amend the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission Act, the Competition Act, the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act and the Telecommunications Act

C-30 
An Act to amend the Criminal Code
(Response to the Supreme Court of Canada Decision in R. v. Shoker Act) 

C-31 
An Act to amend the Old Age Security Act
(Eliminating Entitlements for Prisoners Act) 



C-34 
An Act to amend the Museums Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts
(Creating Canada's New National Museum of Immigration at Pier 21 Act) 

C-35 
An Act to amend the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act

C-36 
An Act respecting the safety of consumer products
(Canada Consumer Product Safety Act) 

C-40 
An Act to establish National Seniors Day
(Celebrating Canada's Seniors Act) 

C-42 
An Act to amend the Aeronautics Act
(Strengthening Aviation Security Act) 

C-44 
An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the federal public administration for the financial year ending March 31, 2011
(Appropriation Act No. 2, 2010-2011) 

C-47 
A second Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 4, 2010 and other measures
(Sustaining Canada's Economic Recovery Act) 

C-48 
An Act to amend the Criminal Code and to make consequential amendments to the National Defence Act
(Protecting Canadians by Ending Sentence Discounts for Multiple Murders Act)

C-55 
An Act to amend the Canadian Forces Members and Veterans Re-establishment and Compensation Act and the Pension Act
(Enhanced New Veterans Charter Act) 

C-58 
An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the federal public administration for the financial year ending March 31, 2011
(Appropriation Act No. 4, 2010-11)

C-61 
An Act to provide for the taking of restrictive measures in respect of the property of officials and former officials of foreign states and of their family members
(Assets of Corrupt Foreign Officials Act) 



40th Parliament, 2nd Session 
(January 26, 2009 - December 30, 2009)

C-2 
An Act to implement the Free Trade Agreement between Canada and the States of the European Free Trade Association (Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, Switzerland), the Agreement on Agriculture between Canada and the Republic of Iceland, the Agreement on Agriculture between Canada and the Kingdom of Norway and the Agreement on Agriculture between Canada and the Swiss Confederation
(Canada-EFTA Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act)

C-3 
An Act to amend the Arctic Waters Pollution Prevention Act

C-4 
An Act respecting not-for-profit corporations and certain other corporations
(Canada Not-for-profit Corporations Act) 

C-5 
An Act to amend the Indian Oil and Gas Act

C-7 
An Act to amend the Marine Liability Act and the Federal Courts Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts

C-9 
An Act to amend the Transportation of Dangerous Goods Act, 1992

C-10 
An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on January 27, 2009 and related fiscal measures
(Budget Implementation Act, 2009) 

C-11 
An Act to promote safety and security with respect to human pathogens and toxins
(Human Pathogens and Toxins Act) 

C-12 
An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the federal public administration for the financial year ending March 31, 2009
(Appropriation Act No. 4, 2008-2009) 

C-14 
An Act to amend the Criminal Code (organized crime and protection of justice system participants)

C-16 
An Act to amend certain Acts that relate to the environment and to enact provisions respecting the enforcement of certain Acts that relate to the environment
(Environmental Enforcement Act)

C-17 
An Act to recognize Beechwood Cemetery as the national cemetery of Canada
(National Cemetery of Canada Act) 

C-18 
An Act to amend the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Superannuation Act, to validate certain calculations and to amend other Acts

C-21 
An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the federal public administration for the financial year ending March 31, 2009
(Appropriation Act No. 5, 2008-2009) 

C-22 
An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the federal public administration for the financial year ending March 31, 2010
(Appropriation Act No. 1, 2009-2010) 

C-24 
An Act to implement the Free Trade Agreement between Canada and the Republic of Peru, the Agreement on the Environment between Canada and the Republic of Peru and the Agreement on Labour Cooperation between Canada and the Republic of Peru
(Canada-Peru Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act) 

C-25 
An Act to amend the Criminal Code (limiting credit for time spent in pre-sentencing custody)
(Truth in Sentencing Act) 

C-28 
An Act to amend the Cree-Naskapi (of Quebec) Act

C-29 
An Act to increase the availability of agricultural loans and to repeal the Farm Improvement Loans Act

C-32 
An Act to amend the Tobacco Act

C-33 
An Act to amend the War Veterans Allowance Act

C-38 
An Act to amend the Canada National Parks Act to enlarge Nahanni National Park Reserve of Canada
(An Act Creating One of the World's Largest National Park Reserves) 

C-39 
An Act to amend the Judges Act

C-41 
An Act to give effect to the Maanulth First Nations Final Agreement and to make consequential amendments to other Acts
(Maanulth First Nations Final Agreement Act) 

C-50 
An Act to amend the Employment Insurance Act and to increase benefits
The Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development

C-51 
An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on January 27, 2009 and to implement other measures
(Economic Recovery Act (stimulus)) 

C-56 
An Act to amend the Employment Insurance Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts
(Fairness for the Self-Employed Act) 

C-62 
An Act to amend the Excise Tax Act
(Provincial Choice Tax Framework Act)


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

screature said:


> Just as an example of how the Libs have agreed with the Cons is the legislation that they supported and therefore share the same political space as it in every case is solely up to them to allow or not allow a Bill to pass given the past make up of the House. Here is a small sample for just 2 years, I could go on and on...
> 
> 40th Parliament, 3rd Session
> (March 3, 2010 - March 26, 2011)


oh really? Many of the bills you listed in the 3rd session haven't even been voted on, but lets look at some of the ones that have :



screature said:


> C-3


only the second item on your list and you're already wrong. the liberals voted *against* it, and the motion was defeated.



screature said:


> C-9


here's the third bill on your list and you're wrong again. the liberals voted *against* it.

i could go on, except....



screature said:


> But I hate scrolling...


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Yes my bad ...I was in a hurry this morning and included all those Bills that received Royal Ascent and forgot to filter through how it broke down for the Libs support if I have the time I will do so later.


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

> You don't know what you talking about... do you know what it means when a Bill has received Royal Assent???? It means it has passed through the Senate and is now law.


I'm talking about *elected* officials in the *House*. You know very well that is where the power of Canadian Politics is and where the actual laws are hammered out and formed.

The Senate RARELY rejects bills, and to use results from it to somehow plot out the political landscape isn't very accurate.


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

screature said:


> Yes my bad I was in a hurry this morning and included all those that received Royal Ascent I didn't have time to filter through how it broke down for the Libs support if I have the time I will do so later.


fair enough.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

i-rui said:


> fair enough.


Thanks for that... sorry you had to see the first knee jerk response on my part... I double checked and realized I had made the error... Things are bit crazy around here today and I really shouldn't be taking my break time for stuff like this as It ends up being half assed. My apologies.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Hi Screature, I must admit I thought the Compass package was not too bad, however I think you are right on the skewness. I had trouble with the leadership and Prime Minister questions, especially Giles, since he is unlikely to be PM, how did those questions did skew my results. It's a little like saying of Judy, Joyce and John, who would make the best birth mother.

If you take out John [ as he is impossible to be a birth mother ] it would significantly skew the results.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Ok here is the update based on how the Libs voted on Bills that received Royal Ascent during the last two session of Parliament either they were in favour or in a couple of case made sure enough of their MPs "stayed home" to allow the Bills to pass... it didn't make much difference.

*40th Parliament, 3rd Session  (March 3, 2010 - March 26, 2011)
*
C-2 
An Act to implement the Free Trade Agreement between Canada and the Republic of Colombia, the Agreement on the Environment between Canada and the Republic of Colombia and the Agreement on Labour Cooperation between Canada and the Republic of Colombia
(Canada-Colombia Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act) 

C-9 
An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 4, 2010 and other measures
(Jobs and Economic Growth Act) 
47 Libs voted against 30 were absent... they allowed the bill to pass

C-11 
An Act to amend the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and the Federal Courts Act
(Balanced Refugee Reform Act) 

C-13 
An Act to amend the Employment Insurance Act
(Fairness for Military Families (Employment Insurance) Act) 

C-14 
An Act to amend the Electricity and Gas Inspection Act and the Weights and Measures Act
(Fairness at the Pumps Act) 
*
C-21 
An Act to amend the Criminal Code (sentencing for fraud)
(Standing up for Victims of White Collar Crime Act) 

C-22 
An Act respecting the mandatory reporting of Internet child pornography by persons who provide an Internet service

C-23A 
An Act to amend the Criminal Records Act 
(Limiting Pardons for Serious Crimes Act) 

C-24
An Act to amend the First Nations Commercial and Industrial Development Act and another Act in consequence thereof
(First Nations Certainty of Land Title Act)

C-28 
An Act to promote the efficiency and adaptability of the Canadian economy by regulating certain activities that discourage reliance on electronic means of carrying out commercial activities, and to amend the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission Act, the Competition Act, the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act and the Telecommunications Act

C-30 
An Act to amend the Criminal Code
(Response to the Supreme Court of Canada Decision in R. v. Shoker Act) 

 C-31 
An Act to amend the Old Age Security Act
(Eliminating Entitlements for Prisoners Act) 

C-34 
An Act to amend the Museums Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts
(Creating Canada's New National Museum of Immigration at Pier 21 Act) 

C-35 
An Act to amend the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act

C-36 
An Act respecting the safety of consumer products
(Canada Consumer Product Safety Act) 

C-40 
An Act to establish National Seniors Day
(Celebrating Canada's Seniors Act) 

C-42 
An Act to amend the Aeronautics Act
(Strengthening Aviation Security Act) 

C-44 
An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the federal public administration for the financial year ending March 31, 2011
(Appropriation Act No. 2, 2010-2011)
49 Libs voted against 28 were absent... they allowed the bill to pass 

C-48 
An Act to amend the Criminal Code and to make consequential amendments to the National Defence Act
(Protecting Canadians by Ending Sentence Discounts for Multiple Murders Act)

C-55 
An Act to amend the Canadian Forces Members and Veterans Re-establishment and Compensation Act and the Pension Act
(Enhanced New Veterans Charter Act) 

C-58 
An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the federal public administration for the financial year ending March 31, 2011
(Appropriation Act No. 4, 2010-11)

C-61 
An Act to provide for the taking of restrictive measures in respect of the property of officials and former officials of foreign states and of their family members
(Assets of Corrupt Foreign Officials Act) 



*40th Parliament, 2nd Session  (January 26, 2009 - December 30, 2009)*

C-2 
An Act to implement the Free Trade Agreement between Canada and the States of the European Free Trade Association (Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, Switzerland), the Agreement on Agriculture between Canada and the Republic of Iceland, the Agreement on Agriculture between Canada and the Kingdom of Norway and the Agreement on Agriculture between Canada and the Swiss Confederation
(Canada-EFTA Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act)

 C-3 
An Act to amend the Arctic Waters Pollution Prevention Act

 C-4 
An Act respecting not-for-profit corporations and certain other corporations
(Canada Not-for-profit Corporations Act) 

 C-5 
An Act to amend the Indian Oil and Gas Act

 C-7 
An Act to amend the Marine Liability Act and the Federal Courts Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts

 C-9 
An Act to amend the Transportation of Dangerous Goods Act, 1992

 C-10 
An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on January 27, 2009 and related fiscal measures
(Budget Implementation Act, 2009) 

 C-11 
An Act to promote safety and security with respect to human pathogens and toxins
(Human Pathogens and Toxins Act) 

 C-12 
An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the federal public administration for the financial year ending March 31, 2009
(Appropriation Act No. 4, 2008-2009) 

 C-14 
An Act to amend the Criminal Code (organized crime and protection of justice system participants)

 C-16 
An Act to amend certain Acts that relate to the environment and to enact provisions respecting the enforcement of certain Acts that relate to the environment
(Environmental Enforcement Act)

 C-17 
An Act to recognize Beechwood Cemetery as the national cemetery of Canada
(National Cemetery of Canada Act) 

 C-18 
An Act to amend the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Superannuation Act, to validate certain calculations and to amend other Acts

 C-21 
An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the federal public administration for the financial year ending March 31, 2009
(Appropriation Act No. 5, 2008-2009) 

 C-22 
An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the federal public administration for the financial year ending March 31, 2010
(Appropriation Act No. 1, 2009-2010) 

 C-24 
An Act to implement the Free Trade Agreement between Canada and the Republic of Peru, the Agreement on the Environment between Canada and the Republic of Peru and the Agreement on Labour Cooperation between Canada and the Republic of Peru
(Canada-Peru Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act) 

 C-25 
An Act to amend the Criminal Code (limiting credit for time spent in pre-sentencing custody)
(Truth in Sentencing Act) 

 C-28 
An Act to amend the Cree-Naskapi (of Quebec) Act

 C-29 
An Act to increase the availability of agricultural loans and to repeal the Farm Improvement Loans Act

 C-32 
An Act to amend the Tobacco Act

 C-33 
An Act to amend the War Veterans Allowance Act

 C-38 
An Act to amend the Canada National Parks Act to enlarge Nahanni National Park Reserve of Canada
(An Act Creating One of the World's Largest National Park Reserves) 

 C-39 
An Act to amend the Judges Act

C-41 
An Act to give effect to the Maanulth First Nations Final Agreement and to make consequential amendments to other Acts
(Maanulth First Nations Final Agreement Act) 

C-48
An Act to amend the Criminal Code and to make consequential amendments to the National Defence Act
(Protecting Canadians by Ending Sentence Discounts for Multiple Murders Act)
*
C-56 
An Act to amend the Employment Insurance Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts
(Fairness for the Self-Employed Act) 

 C-62 
An Act to amend the Excise Tax Act
(Provincial Choice Tax Framework Act)


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

screature said:


> Ok here is the update based on how the Libs voted on Bills that received Royal Ascent during the last two session of Parliament either they were in favour or in a couple of case made sure enough of their MPs "stayed home" to allow the Bills to pass... it didn't make much difference.


You're presenting this long list of bills, but *ONLY 5* of them were actually voted on in the 3rd session. The rest were granted royal assent by the GG, but that has nothing to do with how liberals voted. *And of course you're omitting Bills that were DEFEATED.*

Of the 5 that were voted on, the Liberals agreed with the Conservatives 3 times (and the bloc agreed on one of those bills as well!). This actually supports the notion that the Liberals *are* the most centrist party, as they are neither to the extreme right or left (certainly more central then the conservatives).

as to your point about keeping members at home not to defeat a bill, they did this with Bill C-9 because if they defeated that bill it would have brought down the government because it was a budgetary bill.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

i-rui said:


> You're presenting this long list of bills, but *ONLY 5* of them were actually voted on in the 3rd session. *The rest were granted royal assent by the GG,* but that has nothing to do with how liberals voted. *And of course you're omitting all the Bills that were DEFEATED.*
> 
> Of the 5 that were voted on, the Liberals agreed with the Conservatives 3 times (and the bloc agreed on one of those bills as well!). This actually supports the notion that the Liberals *are* the most centrist party, as they are neither to the extreme right or left (certainly more central then the conservatives).
> 
> as to your point about keeping members at home not to defeat a bill, they did this with Bill C-9 because if they defeated that bill it would have brought down the government because it was a budgetary bill.


That is not correct the GG has NOTHING to do with the decision for Royal Accent... If they weren't voted on it simply means it was a matter of an oral vote.. shouting out Yea or Nay and the Speaker decides who carries the vote. All Bills are voted on whether or not it is decided on by division, i.e. a recorded vote.

I don't see how your math works out to that the Libs being the most centrist when the majority of the time when there was a recorded vote they agreed with the Cons.

Oh yes and they didn't want to bring down the government why..? Because they were principled or because it was pragmatic and knew they would lose and election...

_*And of course you're omitting Bills that were DEFEATED.*_

I've taken the time to do my job... you do yours to convince me otherwise....


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

duplicate post


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

I could go through the votes and find just as many bills where the bloc agreed with the conservatives. does this mean they both share "the same political space"?

regarding royal assent....the GG does head the ceremony. The real vote occurs in the third reading. Has a bill *ever* been rejected at royal assent???


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

i-rui said:


> *I could go through the votes and find just as many bills where the bloc agreed with the conservatives. does this mean they both share "the same political space"?*
> 
> regarding royal assent....*the GG does head the ceremony.* *The real vote occurs in the third reading. Has a bill ever been rejected at royal assent???*


It isn't really the point now is it? What would be more interesting is to highlight the Bills that the BQ supported that the Libs didn't and vise versa.... Up to the challenge? 
Then do so please... seriously...

The GG is a figure head, you know that it, it is a matter of ceremony, it is the vote in the Senate that grants Royal Ascent. Let's get real.

Yes the Senate has sent Bills back to the House on several occasions... or simply voted them down depending on the point of origination.


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

I agree with screature in that I think it is wrong for CBC to be promoting this survey.

Like the original Poltical Compass web site (which incidentally has a Canadian Election 2011 page that has a different take than the CBC one) these type of things are a very blunt instrument. It's easy to guess the intent of the questions and not answer honestly to tweak your score. The questions are inherently subjective and this type of thing while it can be interesting is not remotely "scientific". While I personally find this stuff fun I don't think the CBC should be promoting it as being scientific or authoritative.

It also simplifies the range of stances and opinions among political parties. Parties are not monoliths in any way, even the Cons, (although I'm sure Harper would like them to march in lockstep. ) I'm sure if you asked candidates in all parties to take a survey like this you would rarely find someone whose score ended up right where his/her party is supposed to be at.

Interestingly, there's a large discussion on an NDP-friendly forum where many are decrying the right-wing slant of this survey. Like I said, a survey like this is subjective.


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

Macfury said:


> A little southeast of you.


If you are a libertarian you would be up in the far north-east corner, no?

Me I'd be somewhere up in the wild northwest - left-libertarian land.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> I agree with screature in that I think it is wrong for CBC to be promoting this survey.
> 
> Like the original Poltical Compass web site (which incidentally has a Canadian Election 2011 page that has a different take than the CBC one) these type of things are a very blunt instrument. It's easy to guess the intent of the questions and not answer honestly to tweak your score. The questions are inherently subjective and this type of thing while it can be interesting is not remotely "scientific". While I personally find this stuff fun I don't think the CBC should be promoting it as being scientific or authoritative.
> 
> ...


100% agree on all your points and it is interesting that many NDP voters are finding it skewed to the right... that would be Liberal again wouldn't it?

Fundamentally I have serious issues with the whole and concept and the premises it is built on, that the coding of an individual or group of individuals built into an App can tell a person how they should vote is ludicrous.

Democracy is and should be an active, engaged and thoughtful endeavour. Dumbing it down to the point of having an App tell you how you should vote is an insult and disservice to democracy itself.

People who actually take the time to be involved with the democratic process are the ones who will simply see the Voter Compass as a little bit of harmless fun. But what is most alarming is that it potentially has the greatest influence on the politically disengaged, the young and new citizens who may feel that they don't have the knowledge to decide for themselves and who could therefore see such an App as a means to help them figure how they should vote. 

It is disappointing to say the least that our "public broadcaster" would actually offer up and promote such a fundamentally flawed (not only in execution but in concept) App for public use, with such little regard for the public that it is supposed to serve and the democratic process. To me it almost shows disdain... "here you go you uneducated, ignorant hoards, you sheep, we will tell you how to vote."

To reiterate, IMO it should be taken down.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh! A critical thinker in our midst. But, in reality, doesn't the broadcasting of any campaign impinge on "gifts from the mount" for the politically unwashed? The trouble with this is that the electorate has a very short memory, as a whole ... so rather than take on the responsibility of keeping ourselves current and abreast of what the government is actually doing we prefer the "Elections for Dummies" approach .... I sometimes wonder if this is a result of the helplessness we may feel about the elected members: " it doesn't matter who gets in, they are all the same". I sometimes think the disenfranchised are actually the people who follow what's going on and try, in some small way, to keep the government honest.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

An interesting thing I observed yesterday. Guy next to me at the pub bar watching an Iggy ad on the TV, turned to the barkeep and said, "I've voted NDP all my life, but there's no way I want that Bas.... to get in. I'm voting Conservative this time." The 20-something bartender replied, "Me too, I've never voted, but anything to keep him out, so I'm gonna vote for the first time." Might be a trend.


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

SINC said:


> An interesting thing I observed yesterday. Guy next to me at the pub bar watching an Iggy ad on the TV, turned to the barkeep and said, "I've voted NDP all my life, but there's no way I want that Bas.... to get in. I'm voting Conservative this time." The 20-something bartender replied, "Me too, I've never voted, but anything to keep him out, so I'm gonna vote for the first time." Might be a trend.


Well if that's not enough evidence to proclaim a majority I don't know what is.

I also will be happy to see the Liberal party show Ignatieff the door, but calling him a bastard? Sounds like the attack ads talking. Obviously your two bar mates might be lacking a bit in their critical thinking.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

mrjimmy said:


> Well if that's not enough evidence to proclaim a majority I don't know what is.
> 
> I also will be happy to see the Liberal party show Ignatieff the door, but calling him a bastard? Sounds like the attack ads talking. Obviously your two bar mates might be lacking a bit in their critical thinking.


Yeah, you're right, they more properly should have referred to him as Count Ignatieff.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Rps said:


> Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh! A critical thinker in our midst. *But, in reality, doesn't the broadcasting of any campaign impinge on "gifts from the mount" for the politically unwashed?* The trouble with this is that the electorate has a very short memory, as a whole ... so rather than take on the responsibility of keeping ourselves current and abreast of what the government is actually doing we prefer the "Elections for Dummies" approach .... I sometimes wonder if this is a result of the helplessness we may feel about the elected members: " it doesn't matter who gets in, they are all the same". I sometimes think the disenfranchised are actually the people who follow what's going on and try, in some small way, to keep the government honest.


No I don't think so Rps, because we know the bias of where those statements are coming from, the supporters of this or that party. We know to take it all with a grain of salt as they are all serving their own interests. An App to many would seem to be unbiased, objective and disinterested, but of course we know this not to be true as the results are based on the thinking, coding and assumptions of a given individual(s).

Whose interests does the Voter Compass serve? Supposedly the "public" interest as it is being disseminated by the "public" broadcaster. But for the reasons I and many others have already stated it does not do this. In fact the only interests it serves are those of the creators and the disseminator. it is being promoted by Stombo and others and the CBC defends it despite the many cries of "fowl" by the public. The CBC clearly thought the Voter Compass would up their ratings/hits during the election and so it was in their interests that they choose to implement and then promote it. They are serving no one other than themselves and I would suggest the built in bias of the App, and we all know who/what that is.


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

SINC said:


> Yeah, you're right, they more properly should have referred to him as Count Ignatieff.


Yes, I'm sure that would add to their credibility.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

mrjimmy said:


> Yes, I'm sure that would add to their credibility.


Must you always take everything so personally? You'd think I directed the comments directly at you. I posted it to reflect the mood of voters I overheard here and quoted them. If you don't like it, take it up with them, not me.


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

SINC said:


> Yeah, you're right, they more properly should have referred to him as Count Ignatieff.





SINC said:


> It must be tough to be so jaded that you cannot comment objectively without resorting to name calling when gt asked we didn't. Carry on breaking the spirit of the thread, by all means.


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

SINC said:


> Must you always take everything so personally? You'd think I directed the comments directly at you. I posted it to reflect the mood of voters I overheard here and quoted them. If you don't like it, take it up with them, not me.


I'm not sure how you think I'm taking anything you or others say here personally. I find this amusing and nothing more.


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

screature said:


> Whose interests does the Voter Compass serve? Supposedly the "public" interest as it is being disseminated by the "public" broadcaster. But for the reasons I and many others have already stated it does not do this. In fact the only interests it serves are those of the creators and the disseminator. it is being promoted by Stombo and others and the CBC defends it despite the many cries of "fowl" by the public. The CBC clearly thought the Voter Compass would up their ratings/hits during the election and so it was in their interests that they choose to implement and then promote it. They are serving no one other than themselves and I would suggest the built in bias of the App, and we all know who/what that is.


I do agree that CBC should not be promoting this survey, at least not in the way they are doing it, as some sort of authoritative and scientific thing. But I don't agree that there is a plot involved. In my opinion it's just the fight to get eyeballs to their websites against their competitions efforts to do the same and they think that this little gimmick is the key. I really don't think you have to worry about it swinging any votes away from your fave party. Those voters don't like the CBC anyway, right?


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

SINC said:


> An interesting thing I observed yesterday. Guy next to me at the pub bar watching an Iggy ad on the TV, turned to the barkeep and said, "I've voted NDP all my life, but there's no way I want that Bas.... to get in. I'm voting Conservative this time." The 20-something bartender replied, "Me too, I've never voted, but anything to keep him out, so I'm gonna vote for the first time." Might be a trend.


This is in Alberta, correct?

I don't think there are any ridings there, except maybe one in Edmonton, where all seats don't already go to the most right-wing party running with a large majority. So these people's extra votes won't count for anything.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> I do agree that CBC should not be promoting this survey, at least not in the way they are doing it, as some sort of authoritative and scientific thing. But I don't agree that there is a plot involved. In my opinion it's just the fight to get eyeballs to their websites against their competitions efforts to do the same and they think that this little gimmick is the key. I really don't think you have to worry about it swinging any votes away from your fave party. Those voters don't like the CBC anyway, right?


I'm not so sure about a "plot"... the creator did work on Iggy's 2006 leadership campaign.

But let us assume that the *intentions* are "benign" aside from the self interest of the CBC. It was a big mistake and only further serves to "dumb down" democracy and the importance of personal involvement in the democratic process and if for no other reason, it was an ill conceived and implemented idea and one that I fundamentally believe the CBC should not have engaged in and prompted.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Ottawaman said:


>


Allow me to explain. It's calling reporting. You simply "QUOTE" what people say.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> This is in Alberta, correct?
> 
> I don't think there are any ridings there, except maybe one in Edmonton, where all seats don't already go to the most right-wing party running with a large majority. So these people's extra votes won't count for anything.


No it won't make any difference in Alberta's outcome, but it does reflect a loss of NDP support, and the fact that it isn't going to the Liberals, which I thought interesting.


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

screature said:


> But let us assume that the *intentions* are "benign" aside from the self interest of the CBC. It was a big mistake and only further serves to "dumb down" democracy .....


attack ads "dumb down democracy". The voter compass engages the public. I don't think anyone is saying you have to vote the way the compass tells you, but it is a way to see where you stand on issues, and where the parties stand on those issues. The only criticism I have about it is the survey should ask you to rank which issues are important to you by default instead of having it as an option after you've completed it.

The idea that it's biased or rigged is laughable. If we can't plot parties to the left or right of each other how can we even have a reasonable conversation about politics?


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

i-rui said:


> attack ads "dumb down democracy". *The voter compass engages the public.* I don't think anyone is saying you have to vote the way the compass tells you, but it is a way to see where you stand on issues, and where the parties stand on those issues. The only criticism I have about it is the survey should ask you to rank which issues are important to you by default instead of having it as an option after you've completed it.
> 
> *The idea that it's biased or rigged is laughable. If we can't plot parties to the left or right of each other how can we even have a reasonable conversation about politics?*


Not in the least does it engage the public. You fill it out and walk away, their is no engagement. To be engaged you have to have some sort of substantive input. All the voter compass does is ask a bunch of questions and spits out a result. There is no critical thinking or back and forth involved. The debates here on ehMac are far more engaging. The Voter Compass only offers the guise and veneer of engagement. Nope no engagement here... I will let an app do all the work for me... Please.

Why because you say so? You seem to have a conspiracy theory for just about everything else why not this?

Why do we need to plot anything... this is ridiculous and laughable. We need to read, listen, watch, converse and be engaged and we can make up our own minds regarding policy and what best fits with our mind set. 

Right, left, centre or backwards, why do we need to break it down to such limited groupings/definitions.... The world is far from being so simple and black and white... at least mine is, it is a vast multitude of shades of grey.


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

screature said:


> Not in the least does it engage the public. You fill it out and walk away, their is no engagement. To be engaged you have to have some sort of substantive input. All the voter compass does is ask a bunch of questions and spits out a result. There is no critical thinking or back and forth involved. The debates here on ehMac are far more engaging. The Voter Compass only offers the guise and veneer of engagement. Nope no engagement here... I will let an app do all the work for me... Please.


The simple fact that it requires the user to *participate* makes it more engaging than most of political coverage the average canadian is exposed to. It's certainly better than the status quo of not knowing where the parties stand on issues.



screature said:


> Why because you say so? You seem to have a conspiracy theory for just about everything else why not this?


i love this line. you're the one claiming the cbc is pushing the voter compass because they are secretly aiding the liberal party, and i'm the one with a "conspiracy theory for just about everything"??? lol



screature said:


> Right, left, centre or backwards, why do we need to break it down to such limited groupings/definitions.... The world is far from being so simple and black and white... at least mine is, it is a vast multitude of shades of grey.


The Vote Compass isn't black & white. it actually plots a position on a graph that envelops a "multitude of shades of grey". It isn't perfect, but for 5 mins of a users time it can give them a "ballpark" idea of where they stand compared to the parties.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

i-rui said:


> The simple fact that it requires the user to *participate* makes it more engaging than most of political coverage the average canadian is exposed to. *It's certainly better than the status quo of not knowing where the parties stand on issues.*


Nonsense. The policies of all parties are there for to see for all. There is no participation beyond having to make a series of clicks. If this is your idea of participation and engagement it certainly isn't mine. There is no point is arguing this point further we will have to agree to disagree.



i-rui said:


> *i love this line.* you're the one claiming the cbc is pushing the voter compass because they are secretly aiding the liberal party, and i'm the one with a "conspiracy theory" for just about everything??? lol


More condescension and misdirection...

I am questioning the veracity of the results as they have been demonstrated to be skewed to the Liberals and the creator of the App worked on the Iggy leadership campaign... I am not pushing anything, I am calling it into question as are many others... and yes I do believe the CBC are biased toward the Liberals as I think it is demonstrable.... case in point. Where or not it was intentional, we will most likely never know but they certainly failed to do enough due diligence as they should have being the public broadcaster. Perhaps they were just lazy or perhaps they were wilfully ignorant to the flaws.

You are the one who regularly posts your unbridled support for Wikileaks and Crooks and Liars and the like, virtually unquestioningly.



i-rui said:


> The Vote Compass isn't black & white. it actually plots a position on a graph that envelops a "multitude of shades of grey". It isn't perfect, *but for 5 mins of a users time *in can give them a "ballpark" idea of where they stand compared to the parties.


Exactly!! *5 minutes of a users time* does not equal engagement, it equals dumbing down what is a complex and complicated subject and process.

It is black and white as all it does is point you to a party not a given candidate, that is where the true multitude of shades of grey reside.

I think if the Voter Compass were to exhibit a preponderance of results towards the Conservatives and its creator were a known supporter of Harper you would be all over this like white on rice. But because it seems to support your individual bias your arguments are in favour of it it and have less to do with principle and more to do with your personal proclivities.


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

screature said:


> I am questioning the veracity of the results as they have been demonstrated to be skewed to the Liberals and *the creator* of the App worked on the Iggy leadership campaign...


he isn't "the creator" he is one of *many* people who worked on it. He's also a Professor of Political science, so it's not surprising he would be involved in politics.. in fact he also *paid* to attend a dinner for *Stephen Harper*.



screature said:


> You are the one who regularly posts your unbridled support for Wikileaks and Crooks and Liars and the like, virtually unquestioningly.


I do support Wikileaks because they are a tool for transparent governments (which obviously you are against). LOL at my "unbridled support" of Crooks & Liars. I don't even read the website, I simply linked an article from a google search i did *ONCE*. I guess that qualifies as "unbridled support" in your books.



screature said:


> It is black and white as all it does is point you to a party not a given candidate, that is where the true multitude of shades of grey reside.


Actually it does both. I suppose if you even bothered to try and explore it you'd know that but you're too busy being a conservative echo chamber on here.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

i-rui said:


> he isn't "the creator" he is one of *many* people who worked on it. He's also a Professor of Political science, so it's not surprising he would be involved in politics.. in fact he also *paid* to attend a dinner for *Stephen Harper*.


He is the progenitor, I have said others were involved. Who cares if he paid to attend a dinner for Stephen Harper... "know thy enemy". 



i-rui said:


> *Actually it does both.* I suppose if you even bothered to try and explore it you'd know that but you're too busy being a *conservative echo chamber on here*.


Only based on the broad party affiliation....

More condescension... I express my own views and thoughts, I would ask that you stop with this line, it is tiresome and disrespectful.

I have never said you echo anyone other than your own personal proclivities I wish you would extend the same respect.

Whose "echo chamber" do you represent....? Hmmm... I could guess but have not been so disrespectful to your intelligence and individuality to say so.


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

screature said:


> Only based on the broad party affiliation....
> 
> More condescension... I express my own views and thoughts, I would ask that you stop with this line, i*t is tiresome and disrespectful*.
> 
> ...


actually you have constantly accused me of espousing "conspiracy theories". When in fact, I never have.

If you honestly expect people to treat you with respect when you voice your opinion you might want to do the same.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

i-rui said:


> actually you have constantly accused me of espousing "conspiracy theories". When in fact, I never have.
> 
> If you honestly expect people to treat you with respect when you voice your opinion you might want to do the same.


I believe I have exhibited more decorum and respect than you have in our engagements but clearly you would disagree... So be it.

You reap what you sow and I would argue you are the primary sower of discontent and disrespect. One person's conspiracy theory is another person's fact.

We will have to agree to disagree and I will cease to reply to any of your politically related posts... what others say in response to a post or thread you may start is another matter. But clearly there is no point in us engaging with each other in terms of politically related matters.

I talk to my sister about everything outside of the realm of politics and we get along just fine... Hopefully we can do the same.

Peace out.


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

screature said:


> I talk to my sister about everything outside of the realm of politics and we get along just fine... Hopefully we can do the same.
> 
> Peace out.


sounds good.


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