# Possible/Probable new GSM carrier



## adagio (Aug 23, 2002)

Looks like Yak Mobile will be our new GSM carrier and hopefully our true iPhone supplier. When my contract is up with Rogers I won't be renewing.

These guys sound almost too good to be true but I'll be keeping my eye on them. For those locked into their 3 year contracts with Robbers..... HA HA HA HA!!

"Yak plans to expand its “no contracts, no gimmicks” philosophy from its current offering of affordable and accessible dial-around, home phone, internet and long distance services, bringing its refreshing approach to the undercontested wireless market.

“Canada is one of the least competitive wireless markets in the world,” said Lacavera. “Cell phone rates are too high and penetration is too low. Many Canadians do not realize that they’re paying from 60 per cent to almost 80 per cent more than Americans for their wireless service.”

Lacavera attributes high wireless pricing and low market penetration in Canada to a lack of competitive alternatives. Currently, only three operators - Telus, Rogers and Bell - own a portion of the wireless spectrum."


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

If winning the spectrum allows them to change their annoying commercials, that alone would make it worthwhile.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

I wonder how long it will be before they jack up their prices too. Shareholders are shareholders. They want to maximize profits, ROI etc. and will charge what the market will bear. A GSM competitor will likely reduce prices for all a little, but don't expect rates to become cheap especially since the cost of the spectrum and the network set up will require significant loan repayments. Like Air Canada, Rogers will apply strategic squeeze to a competitor to protect their market. Only when Bellus enter the GSM market is there likely to be stable competition at the level of prices but I do hope Yak thrives.


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## adagio (Aug 23, 2002)

used to be jwoodget said:


> I wonder how long it will be before they jack up their prices too. Shareholders are shareholders. They want to maximize profits, ROI etc. and will charge what the market will bear. A GSM competitor will likely reduce prices for all a little, but don't expect rates to become cheap especially since the cost of the spectrum and the network set up will require significant loan repayments. Like Air Canada, Rogers will apply strategic squeeze to a competitor to protect their market. Only when Bellus enter the GSM market is there likely to be stable competition at the level of prices but I do hope Yak thrives.


Cell usage in Canada is just about at the bottom of the barrel globally. Why?

*"“Canada is one of the least competitive wireless markets in the world,” said Lacavera. “Cell phone rates are too high and penetration is too low. "*

I think a new carrier has a very good chance of cleaning up. This new kid on the block seems to have very deep pockets. We'll see. ;-)


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## Sybersport (Jun 7, 2005)

used to be jwoodget said:


> I wonder how long it will be before they jack up their prices too. Shareholders are shareholders. They want to maximize profits, ROI etc. and will charge what the market will bear.


Agreed - but the current market is a monopoly, and when YAK comes online then Rogers shareholders will be curious about how they plan to retain current customers, and obtain new ones. (One of) the answer(s) is that Rogers will have to get more aggressive with their pricing model, and arguably their contract model (assuming YAK still offers a no-contract, pay as you go type service.)

From what I have seen, the Canadian telecom market has a follow-the-leader mentality. Canadian telco's have never been create/competitive with their price and service offerings, but the plans (or certain components of the plans) offered in the USA always, albeit slowly, make their way north - and when one player changes the offering, everyone else does the same.


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## polywog (Aug 9, 2007)

Sybersport said:


> (One of) the answer(s) is that Rogers will have to get more aggressive with their pricing model, and arguably their contract model (assuming YAK still offers a no-contract, pay as you go type service.)


That would be great for consumers, so it won't happen 

I'd wager that rather than compete, Rogers would simply buy them out. Would make the shareholders happy in both camps, and shaft consumers once again.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

interesting to watch for sure. There's no way I'm getting into any 3 year contract with robbers right now.


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## adagio (Aug 23, 2002)

groovetube said:


> interesting to watch for sure. There's no way I'm getting into any 3 year contract with robbers right now.


As much as my daughter and I have wanted an iPhone, we have decided to wait things out. Rogers have left such a sour taste in our mouths that even if they announce an unlimited plan, we're still out.


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## KMPhotos (Jun 17, 2008)

Here is a link about the Canada Spectrum sale.
Some interesting points about the iPhone and how we Canadians don't need unlimited data.
At the bottom is also a link to see how much each company has bid.

SpectrumWatch: Round 192 - Analysts comment on auction, Rogers iPhone pricing - FP Posted

I also don't remember where I read it -- but the bidding has surpassed $4-billion -- more than 2 times what people originally thought the bidding would get to. There are some that believe that the big 3 - Rogers, Bell, Telus - pushed the bidding up really high so that any new company would have a tough go at setting up a new national carrier.


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## harrisjr (Aug 29, 2007)

Sybersport said:


> Agreed - but the current market is a monopoly, and when YAK comes online then Rogers shareholders will be curious about how they plan to retain current customers, and obtain new ones. (One of) the answer(s) is that Rogers will have to get more aggressive with their pricing model, and arguably their contract model (assuming YAK still offers a no-contract, pay as you go type service.)
> 
> From what I have seen, the Canadian telecom market has a follow-the-leader mentality. Canadian telco's have never been create/competitive with their price and service offerings, but the plans (or certain components of the plans) offered in the USA always, albeit slowly, make their way north - and when one player changes the offering, everyone else does the same.


At this point I'm anti-Rogers and I am the first person to say that Rogers' prices are way too high and their wireless plans are horrible, but why does everyone keep saying that Rogers is a monopoly? Rogers, Bell and Telus offer virtually the exact same services to Canadian customers. Whether it's via a GSM or CDMA phone really doesn't matter. Just like Ford and Chevy offer different types of vehicles, the wireless companies in Canada offer different types of handsets. Either way, it's the consumer's choice.

Am I just dazed and confused? Can someone please explain this to me if I'm wrong. I've just heard this monopoly word thrown out there so much in all of these conversations.

Thanks and whooooooooooo!


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## 5andman (Oct 15, 2006)

Any competition is good competion -- as consumers it gives "some" choices


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## twolf3232 (Jan 26, 2006)

harrisjr said:


> ...why does everyone keep saying that Rogers is a monopoly?


Strictly speaking, I don't think Rogers is considered a legal monopoly, but the fact that it's the only carrier in Canada providing service on GSM technolgy makes it look like a monopoly.

To painfully stretch the car metaphor further, yes, Ford, GM and Chrysler all make cars. But suppose that Ford and GM only made cars that ran on regular gas, and Chrysler only made cars that ran on diesel. In this metaphor, Ford and GM are Bell and Telus, and Chrysler is Rogers, gas is CDMA and diesel is GSM. All make cars so there is competition and not a monopoly in the car market, but only Chrysler makes diesels, so there is no competition in the diesel (GSM) market.

On an only slightly related note, how do we know that Yak in particular, or the winner of the auction in general will use GSM, that they'll provide data, or that they'll be operational in the relatively short term? I don't see anything on Yak's webpage to indicate that the service will be GSM. Is this buried on the CRTC page somewhere?


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## madgunde (Mar 10, 2006)

I wish Bell and Telus would just get with the program and switch to GSM already. Then they could make tonnes of cash from international travellers roaming on their networks, and Canadians could have some real competition. While we're at it, the government should outlaw locked cell phones or at least require that phones be unlocked for free on request.

OK, I know I'm dreaming. But in all seriousness, if Rogers continues to dominate and benefit from having the latest phones first as well as having a monopoly on international roaming customers, I think at some point Bell or Telus are going to realize there is a business case to switch to GSM. If one does it, the other can't be too far behind.

Unfortunately, it will take years for this to happen, so in the meantime, I'm going to upgrade my 1st gen iPhone to an iPhone 3G on Friday and sign a 3 year contract. I'll keep my existing plan right now and reassess as new plans are introduced. I have unlimited data until August 20, so that gives me a bit of time to decide which data plan I'm going to get.

For those who don't know, you don't have to get an iPhone calling plan to get the iPhone, you can use any of Rogers voice and data plans or just have a voice plan if you wish. You can also change plans at any time.


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## jeepguy (Apr 4, 2008)

Bell buy out

TheStar.com | Business | BCE, buyers agree to terms



> Grant said a number of options are likely on the table.
> 
> Those include everything from overhauling Bell's wireless network to make it compatible with the global system for mobile communications standard, or GSM, to the replacement of Bell's legacy telephone network with a costly fibre-to-the-home strategy similar to one pursued in the United States by Verizon Communications Inc.
> 
> ...


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## Loafer (Jan 7, 2004)

ah, that raises a question I was wondering...

Can you still get the iPhone for $199 with a cheap voice plan and just use wifi hotspots for data ?


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## adagio (Aug 23, 2002)

Globalive

Very very very interesting. 

No shareholders to be beholden too.

Run by young, innovative entrepreneur. I think he might "get it".

I'm keeping fingers crossed and for sure NO 3 year Rogers contract for me.


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## harrisjr (Aug 29, 2007)

twolf3232 said:


> Strictly speaking, I don't think Rogers is considered a legal monopoly, but the fact that it's the only carrier in Canada providing service on GSM technolgy makes it look like a monopoly.
> 
> To painfully stretch the car metaphor further, yes, Ford, GM and Chrysler all make cars. But suppose that Ford and GM only made cars that ran on regular gas, and Chrysler only made cars that ran on diesel. In this metaphor, Ford and GM are Bell and Telus, and Chrysler is Rogers, gas is CDMA and diesel is GSM. All make cars so there is competition and not a monopoly in the car market, but only Chrysler makes diesels, so there is no competition in the diesel (GSM) market.
> 
> On an only slightly related note, how do we know that Yak in particular, or the winner of the auction in general will use GSM, that they'll provide data, or that they'll be operational in the relatively short term? I don't see anything on Yak's webpage to indicate that the service will be GSM. Is this buried on the CRTC page somewhere?


Great points and thanks for responding. I guess I'm just saying, like a car gets you from point A to point B, a cell phone enables you to speak to someone on the other end. Whether you get there via diesel or gas, it doesn't really matter.

Have a great day. Whoooooo!


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## Sybersport (Jun 7, 2005)

harrisjr said:


> I guess I'm just saying, like a car gets you from point A to point B, a cell phone enables you to speak to someone on the other end. Whether you get there via diesel or gas, it doesn't really matter.
> 
> Have a great day. Whoooooo!


You're right - Rogers doesn't hold a monopoly in the telecom market in Canada.

But they do hold a Monopoly over the GSM market, and since we're talking about iPhone, then in this case they have a monopoly (over the iPhone and GSM network.)


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## harrisjr (Aug 29, 2007)

Sybersport said:


> You're right - Rogers doesn't hold a monopoly in the telecom market in Canada.
> 
> But they do hold a Monopoly over the GSM market, and since we're talking about iPhone, then in this case they have a monopoly (over the iPhone and GSM network.)


Agreed. iPhone monopoly in full effect. Not good.


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## uPhone (Jun 29, 2008)

Yak?! Oh god, I always felt embrrassed for this company. 

What ever happened to Harmony Mobile or T-Mobile North?


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## cowasaki (Feb 13, 2008)

I want to see Globalive go public. I'd be first in on the IPO. Ahhh...Sorry to get off topic!


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## cowasaki (Feb 13, 2008)

Having said that though, if Globalive was the next GSM carrier in Canada, they could go public and build a wireless network with no problem pending how many shares are issued.


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## adagio (Aug 23, 2002)

cowasaki said:


> I want to see Globalive go public. I'd be first in on the IPO. Ahhh...Sorry to get off topic!


That may be a good plan. 

More info about the CEO.

I've done a bit of digging about Anthony Lacavera. This man has an amazing outlook on life and is very passionate about his business.

Committed to social and environmental issues.


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## adagio (Aug 23, 2002)

Auction nearly over

As soon as Globalive is up and running, I'm there! This is no two bit company. They have some serious partners with deep, international pockets and tons of experience.

If you have Rogers stock, SELL SELL SELL


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