# Star Trek Enterprise Cancelled



## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

Star Trek Enterprise is cancelled.

Too bad, so sad, not a surprise IMHO.

Discuss or something.


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## jlcinc (Dec 13, 2002)

Too bad I did watch as much as I could but the scripts were just falling apart. I started to like the cast but I knew it was doomed. 

John


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## daBoss (Jun 20, 2003)

What? No more T'Pal in a half tee? C'est domage.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Star Trek is dead... long live Star Trek.

Seriously, I liked the series between the TOS, Motion Pictures (first 3) and TNG. I actually liked Voyager as well (much to the chagrin of some Trekkers  ) but I think the last several years have been a literal burnout... The Double-Bs (Berman and Braga) have, IMHO, driven the whole series into the ground. I think they made the mistake of trying to rewrite history.

And I absolutely hated the theme for Enterprise...


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## dibenga (Oct 30, 2001)

FINALLY,
THis show was so terrible. Even putting aside the fact that every show has it's growing pains in the first couple seasons, this one was ridiculously bad from the get go. 

Lets hope Paramount gets the friggin hint and takes a decade off before starting another show. 

NO MORE 'SOAP TREK'!! I am watching Battlestar Galactica!


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

It <i>was</i> terrible in the first two seasons, except for a handful of episodes...but IMO those two seasons were no worse than TNG's first two. The third season had some good moments, but carrying a single story all the way through and then royally botching the ending were not good things.

This season, they've been doing what they should have done from the start: true prequel stuff that explains how the later Trek universe comes to be. Overall the writing is simply way, way better now. It's too little, too late, unfortunately, though I suppose the announcement comes early enough for a fan campaign to get the decision reversed. I don't think a big enough campaign is going to happen, though. Time for a long hiatus followed by something utterly new and completely free of Berman and Braga.

Star Trek suffers and will always suffer from some of the lame ideas that underlie its whole universe. Nobody should ever expect it to produce "serious" or logical sci-fi, IMO, because it's based on the preposterous idea of a galaxy teeming with humanoids who can communicate easily and interbreed, and zip around at hundreds of times the speed of light, all only a couple hundred years into the future. (It's way closer to Buck Rogers than most of us would like to admit.) It's always been at its best as space opera -- parables and morality plays set in deep space. Sci-fi? Nope. Give me something set thousands or millions of years in the future (or with much slower travel, à la <i>Alien</i>) with truly <i>alien</i> aliens, then we'll talk sci-fi.


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

Thank God, this series has been very painfull to watch as they went back and destroyed the Trek timeline piece by piece, also they probably have the most time travel episodes of any Trek series and that was just plain stupid.

RIP: Enterprise

Laterz


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

It was just starting to get good. Too bad though.

I think the death blow came when UPN decided to move Enterprise to Friday nights. That was the writing on the wall.


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## Ramboman (Dec 13, 2004)

As a life long Trek fan, I am somewhat saddened. Although I only got a chance to watch a handful of episodes, it seemed like a decent Trek "spin off". Being over 35 I have had a personal history with Trek, but I do not think the under 20 generation could care less if Trek lived or died.


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

MaxPower said:


> It was just starting to get good. Too bad though.
> 
> I think the death blow came when UPN decided to move Enterprise to Friday nights. That was the writing on the wall.


I think that by the end Manny Coto might be vindicated if he can give us a few good Trek episodes. As for the change to Fridays the move was the correct one as Smallville on WB was just taking viewers away from Enterprise or at least they should have moved the show up or down one hour so it did not conflict with Enterprise.

Laterz


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## MacNoob (Oct 29, 2004)

I watched every ep up to the end of Season 3. It was painful at first, and now somehow season 4 hasn't grabbed my interest, I don't even know how many episodes were made.

Couldn't handle TNG, DS9, or especially Voyager, 'with Captain Mom'. Battlestar seems to be getting some good press, will have to D/L a few eps and see what it's like. If it's like the pilot it will be fun to watch but NOT FOR KIDS which is too bad as I can't share with my 10-year-old.

MacNoob


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

MacNoob, BSG is a little adult for a 10 year old, but there is always Stargate SG1/Stargate Atlantis. The former is great, the latter is good.


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

Not being a real trekkie, but sort of following the series and movies since I was kid with the original, I think that things started to fall apart after Roddenberry's death. One of the things I liked about Star Trek that I think its creator brought to it was this idealism, that somehow humanity managed to get itself out of our current mess and became this rather utopian world where people were generally happy and free. It was never really explained how humanity suddenly got wise enough to fix itself, at least not that I ever observed in my occasional viewing.

I think The Next Generation generally carried that theme forward, and to some degree Voyager, but it seemed to me a real break occurred when it was explained, I think in the last movie, that it was the Vulcans who brought humanity out of its stupidity, through showing us technological and I assume philosophical ideas beyond our understanding. This whole theme was carried forward in the current series.

When I noticed that, it took the idealism out of the whole fable. I liked the notion that somehow humanity could evolve on its own, but when the story explained that it was mythical advanced aliens who helped us, it just seemed like any other sci-fi fantasy. 

I always like the big themes and ideas that were explored in the series, especially in the original. Although it was rather hokey, those ideas, relatively groundbreaking and controversial for mainstream TV of the time, were what made it good sci-fi and what I think were really the secret to its success. When science fiction just turns into special effects, weird aliens and soap opera plots, I'm not terribly interested. That's why I always like Arthur C. Clarke and Bradbury over the more fantasy oriented stuff.

I only saw 5 or 6 of the new series episodes and I wasn't really impressed. Can't say I really care that it's cancelled.


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## tedj (Sep 9, 2004)

> It was never really explained how humanity suddenly got wise enough to fix itself


It was after the Superhuman wars, GratuitousApplesauce, after the Superhuman wars...........

yeah, bradbury's my fav too.


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## Gizmo (Nov 18, 2003)

Bring back Babylon 5 I say!


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## RicktheChemist (Jul 18, 2001)

.


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

Gizmo said:


> Bring back Babylon 5 I say!



I wish but the series ran it's course it finished on a high note and I hope that it stays that way.

Laterz


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## Cynical Critic (Sep 2, 2002)

Enterprise. Meh.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

Gizmo said:


> Bring back Babylon 5 I say!


There is a movie in the works called "Memory of Shadows." Interestingly enough, it's planned as a theatrical release, not made for TV.


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## Gizmo (Nov 18, 2003)

I've only ever bought 2 DVD sets. One is Babylon 5 and the Other is Buffy (yeah ok....!)
Really enjoyed watching the B5 series all over again.
Memory of Shadows sounds interesting. I think of all the scary aliens, the Shadows have to be one of the scariest


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

Gizmo said:


> Bring back Babylon 5 I say!


It would be great to see a new Babylon 5 series based on that universe of races, worlds, and technology.

As for Star Trek Enterprise, the writing was on the wall at the end of the last season. For all intensive purposes, the fourth season was going to be it's last. Shame that it's finally getting interesting, with the Romulans appearing and the Vulcans revisiting what they are. And the Andorians are always fun to see. They actually got rid of all that time-travel junk.


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## autopilot (Dec 2, 2004)

hahaha, star trek


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*<i>She canna take any more!</i>*

...to paraphrase the good Mr. Scott.

<i>Enterprise</i> was an unmitigated disaster. If I may, for a moment, be totally male about this: a half-naked hottie of a Vulcan turned into what appears to be an actress with either an eating disorder or a drug problem. And all the while, they kept the shows real babe wrapped up (with one or two very notable exceptions): gimme more of Hoshi!

On the writing front - awful. Just awful. As with all series, a few nuggets, but mostly muck in the riverbed. The parallels with the U.S. "war on terror" were ridiculous and not worthy of the Trek genre. 

I grew up on Star Trek. I embraced TNG. I grew to really like DS9. Even Voyager had a fairly consistent run of good episodes and writing (there are always exceptions). But Enteprise? This has been the first season in which I literally didn't care if I caught an episode.... 

But then, I had <b>BattleStar Galactica</b> to provide my sci-fi fix.

I have to agree with the prevailing opinion -- Brannon and Braga ruined Trek. Keep them away from BSG!

M


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

CubaMark said:


> Brannon and Braga ruined Trek


Berman and Braga you mean (Brannon being Braga's first name).

I am less critical of Berman, though, as he was there through a lot of the best times that 24th Century Trek saw, such as the last few seasons TNG and DS9.

Star trek didn't start to go downhill, IMNSHO, until Braga took over Voyager and started basically ignoring most of the cast. Every episode was about either Seven of Boobs regaining her lost humanity, Dr. NotThere trying to get everyone to acknowledge his sentience, or Captain Mom battling with her own sense of morality over every decision she's ever made.

"Tom who? Chakotay what? Aren't those guys just props?"

The ironic thing is that as much as I dislike the guy for ruining the Trek television enterprise, the last of the movies he had anything to do with was First Contact, one of the best. It just goes to show that he does a better job of adapting someone else's story than writing his own (He had small part in the story writing, but was heavily involved in the screenplay).


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## The Great Waka (Nov 26, 2002)

Well, I have to agree here. I grew up on TNG, liked Voyager (a bit) and got into DS9 in the reruns. When Enterprise started, I watched the first season and hoped it would improve. It didn't.

The thing I absolutely HATE is time travel. I thought it was overdone in Voyager, and then Enterprise happened. Do you want to philosophize about time travel being possible? Sure, let's sit and chat. But I hate it when they use it to get around bad writing and fix plot holes (or sometimes make them worse). 

I am not sad to see Enterprise cancelled. However, I am sad that Star Trek had to end on this note. But for me Star Trek ended at the end of Voyager, and that's all there is to it. I hope that the fan community will just ignore Enterprise and leave it out of canon. Let's just say that it was a weird temporal disturbance and the whole thing happened in a different parallel universe.

But who knows? Maybe there will be another Star Trek yet. Maybe I'll have to get involved...


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

CubaMark said:


> I have to agree with the prevailing opinion -- Brannon and Braga ruined Trek. Keep them away from BSG!
> 
> M


Don't worry Ronald D. Moore is in charge of BSG and he was responsible for giving us some of the best DS9 episodes in the 7 seasons that it was on the air. I blame the failure of Enterprise more on Berman than Braga just because when it came down to it he is the one that is in charge of the Trek universe.

Laterz


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## Valacan (Feb 11, 2005)

I started watching Star Trek series with the Next Generation and can only have an amused retro look back at the original series. In the original series the character interaction was pretty top notch (most notably the interaction between Kirk, Bones and Spock) but I didn't really like the plot of many of the episodes. The Next Generation was amazing, again because of character development. The crew (after the first couple of years) really gelled and worked together wonderfully. They really seemed like friends working together, not officers fighting against the unknowns of space. Although this may be an unpopular statement: Deep Space 9 I didn't like, because it was focused on war not on the characters and social commentary.



PosterBoy said:


> Star trek didn't start to go downhill, IMNSHO, until Braga took over Voyager and started basically ignoring most of the cast. Every episode was about either Seven of Boobs regaining her lost humanity, Dr. NotThere trying to get everyone to acknowledge his sentience, or Captain Mom battling with her own sense of morality over every decision she's ever made.



I disagree with PosterBoy, I was happy when they brought in Voyager because it was back to the "nicer" Star Trek ideal. It as about the people on the ship and helping others, not shooting up the invading foreigners and bulking up defenses. Voyager was a good change but it became great, on par with Next Generation (well, maybe a small bit less), once Seven of Nine joined and Kes was dumped. This gave it both "niceness" and edge. Kes went a step too far in the "nicey" direction and made her loose her realism. But "Captain Mom" as she seems to be called, had both morality and edge to her. I totally agree that the Doctor got way too many episodes and they should have been given to Tom and the commander though. The Doctor's episodes were whiny and he never learned his lesson. He was an excellent side character though, and had some of the best one liners.

I found Enterprise, especially the Xindi stuff, to be just more hunting the Dominion and bulking up the defenses again. The characters never seemed to be too realistic, the team never really gelled. When they tried to go character development they went way overboard. The plots would bludgeon the viewers with drama instead of letting the characters show development through good acting. An example of this is when T'pal became addicted to this metal ore. Basically she became a drug addict. Is that really necessary? How about when the Captain attacked a friendly ship to steal their warp core in order to hunt the Xindi down. Would Janeway have done that? Probably not. That kind of character development just made the series too dark, it's a step too far. What makes Star Trek great is the relationships between the crew and subtle social criticism. The best episodes were the ones when phazers were never fired. In the end it didn't really go anywhere, and didn't teach anything. It seems like it was done more for the thrill of drama than for a higher purpose, or a meaningful critique on life.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Does this mean I have to turn in my still in the package set of Vulcan Ears, given to me by the Mayor of Vulcan, Alberta many years ago?


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## gruegoo (Dec 28, 2004)

1. I'm in love with Linda Park... SO GORGEOUS.
2. Enterprise was getting good lately. I'd say I enjoyed it as much as the last season of DS9. Certainly better than most (if not all) of voyager.
3. I'm gonna miss it... I watched from day 1, never missed an episode. I'd say my all time favourite was the one where Archer gets hit by that wave thing and loses his memory, earth gets destroyed, a future with T'pol... That one felt almost TNG.

I want to see some spinoff star trek shows that go into the history of the trek universe. I mean damn, how great would it be if they did a show about the romulan first contact with the klingons!!! I know trek is more family oriented but I really think it could work well with a more adult show... one that isn't so openly preachy.


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

gruegoo said:


> ...I want to see some spinoff star trek shows that go into the history of the trek universe...


That's what Enterprise was supposed to be, but they didn't do a very good job of it now did they.


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## gruegoo (Dec 28, 2004)

The Doug said:


> That's what Enterprise was supposed to be, but they didn't do a very good job of it now did they.



True, but I mean in more of a "before humans" kind of way. For example, a series about vulcan history, how romulans split, how they embraced logic, etc. Or my favourite... a show explaining the klingon head ridges


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## logcomet (Jun 11, 2004)

Too bad.

I will miss Enterprise. I thought It was interesting from day one. A little more grittier and a nice opportunity to visit some future history (albeit an opportunity lost). I think it could stand another season given the current story line. I really liked the last two Journey to Babel episodes.

Oh well ...

However, a great show now is Battlestar Galactica. Great acting, filming and writing. I've watched the entire first season and was awestruck. I can honestly say it is the best sci-fi I have ever seen on tv.


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

gruegoo said:


> ... a show explaining the klingon head ridges


Supposedely they will tackle this issue before Enterprise goes off the air.

Laterz


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

Just to clarify, the introduction of Voyager was not the poblem, the problem was when Brannon Braga took over. Why?

Because all his plots are essentilly the same.
Because all his plot lines, despite their similarity, end up being too dark for the average Trek fan or too nicey nicey.
And because he focuses on a select few characters pretty much exclusively, ignoring the bulk of the cast.

All of this can be seen in both Voyager and Enterprise, the only two series that he had any real control over.

To those that dislike Deep Space Nine, all I can say is that you're missing out. Granted, you need to watch the whole series to really get it, but in addition to pretty much the best visuals that any Star Trek show has ever used (the battle choreography is pretty stunning), the writers developed the whole cast and the plot lines were easier to relate to. Not only thi, but they just had some of the best written episodes I've ever seen in Trek, like The Siege of AR-588 for example, or By Inferno's Light.

But like I said, you have to watch the whole series to really appreciate it. A lot of character development takes place in the first few seasons, so much so that by the time the war really starts you don't need to wonder why characters do or react how they do, because you've gotten to know them so well.


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## gruegoo (Dec 28, 2004)

oooo ridge explanation... it had better be good.

also re: DS9, yes I agree. That's my favourite series other than TNG mainly because of the last 2 seasons. I found Voyager to be too preachy... For example the state of medical care episode. It's just so.... blatant.


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## BooyaMcNasty (Feb 9, 2005)

Star Trek Bakula = Worst. Trek. Ever.


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## Valacan (Feb 11, 2005)

PosterBoy said:


> To those that dislike Deep Space Nine, all I can say is that you're missing out. Granted, you need to watch the whole series to really get it, but in addition to pretty much the best visuals that any Star Trek show has ever used (the battle choreography is pretty stunning), the writers developed the whole cast and the plot lines were easier to relate to.


I did watch the first few seasons and liked them. I especially liked Garett. However, when the war started I lost interest. You're right about the battle scenes being technically amazing. But, I'm not interested in seeing ships shooting each other with lazers. I'm interested in seeing people interacting with each other on a social level in the star trek universe. The war episodes all delt with the struggles of a wartime civilization. Well, the Enterprise D wasn't a war ship, their purpose was to "explore new worlds" and to investigate scientific phenomenon. How many times were they studying a pulsar when something strange happened. I miss those days. 

That's one reason I liked Voyager, they were always exploring a new civilization and learned from/about them. Oh, and I liked the episode about the culture with a tiered medical system. Social criticism is always welcome in Star Trek. You can't tell me that the episode where the Doctor has a cardasian doctor hologram created who is paralleled to the Nazis experimenting on Jewish people for scientific gain, wasn't a episode that really made you think. My favourite episodes in Voyager were the ones where they had the little Irish town they created on the holodeck and the interaction between the characters there. Those episodes didn't have any exterior ships-shooting-ships scenes at all.

I will admit though, that many of the episodes that featured only the doctor as the main character were a little too preachy. For example, the ones where he joins the ship of holograms and leaves Voyager. That just made me dislike him for being disloyal.



PosterBoy said:


> But like I said, you have to watch the whole series to really appreciate it. A lot of character development takes place in the first few seasons, so much so that by the time the war really starts you don't need to wonder why characters do or react how they do, because you've gotten to know them so well.


I agree that there's wasn't a whole lot more character development after the first few seasons and that's my problem. Characters should be continually developing. There were some good episodes but they were the ones when they took a break from the war plot.


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

PosterBoy said:


> To those that dislike Deep Space Nine, all I can say is that you're missing out. Granted, you need to watch the whole series to really get it, but in addition to pretty much the best visuals that any Star Trek show has ever used (the battle choreography is pretty stunning), the writers developed the whole cast and the plot lines were easier to relate to. Not only thi, but they just had some of the best written episodes I've ever seen in Trek, like The Siege of AR-588 for example, or By Inferno's Light.


Those are fine episodes Posterboy, my favourites include The Die is Cast and The Chaging Face of Evil, as for Voyager it's got at least one episode that I like Friendship One

Laterz


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

Fair enough Valacan. I'd say that the DS9 characters were always developing, though, it's just that the focus in the first few seasons seemed to be exclusively character development whereas the focus after that was more on a coherent plot.

The mere fact that there is an over-reaching plot that was advanced in every episode made the show more interesting to me, though, as you had to tune in every week to figure out what was going on. This is not something that can be accomplished with a syndicated show, and besides the whole "we're trying to get home" thing they didn' even bother with in Voyager.

Don't get me wrong, though, it's not that I dislike Voyager per se, it's that I dislike all the crap they ither did wrong or ignored. For example, they started out with a huge energy crisis but by the end of the show had the holodeck running Fair Haven 24/7. They had and lost something like 30 shuttlecraft (maybe if they'd traded for new ones this would be plausible, but they were all Star Fleet "Type 2" shuttles, which changed designs a few seasons in...). Also, they had "no way to replace photo torpedoes once they were gone" (according to Janeway herself), but then used them almost without discretion.

About the only odd thing that a nerd like me can explain about Voyager is the fact that the ships only shuttle bay is called "shuttle bay 2" (Intrepid Class ships have a captains yatch which was never installed in Voyager), and even that is stretching it.

Sure, a lot of the character development was good, but even that started to wear my patience thin after they started essentially ignoring 2/3 of the crew. I mean, I appreciate it must have been hard for Seven of Boobs to adjust to being human again, but they dwelled on it quite a bit while Tuvok, Paris and Chakotay were all but ignored. And the Doctor, how many times did Janeway really need to decide if he was "human enough" or not?

What I'm trying to say is that my problem with Voyager is that it could have been a hell of a lot better without Braga's mediocre writing, poor imagination and lack of continuity holding them back :/


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## gruegoo (Dec 28, 2004)

PosterBoy said:


> Don't get me wrong, though, it's not that I dislike Voyager per se, it's that I dislike all the crap they ither did wrong or ignored. For example, they started out with a huge energy crisis but by the end of the show had the holodeck running Fair Haven 24/7. They had and lost something like 30 shuttlecraft (maybe if they'd traded for new ones this would be plausible, but they were all Star Fleet "Type 2" shuttles, which changed designs a few seasons in...). Also, they had "no way to replace photo torpedoes once they were gone" (according to Janeway herself), but then used them almost without discretion.


Sorry I just had to add... remember the time they mixed up Tom Paris with his character from TNG... Nick Lacerno or something like that? That was pretty funny...


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

Good News, according to www.TrekToday.com Babylon 5 creator J. Michael Straczynski has agreed to at least in principle to head a new Star Trek series in 2 years with no interference from Berman 



> However, Straczynski later posted that he had heard from a trusted source that Paramount would give the Trek TV franchise a rest "for maybe one to two years", and said that he has received an offer to run a new TV series for fall of 2006, "and since there's no way anything Trek can happen in the interim, I've said yes."


     



http://www.trektoday.com/news/160205_01.shtml


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## gruegoo (Dec 28, 2004)

NICE... Babylon 5 was easily one of the best sci-fi series ever made... hopefully he can turn the franchise around.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

When Battlestar Galactica came out, I officially abandoned Star Trek.

For the first time since the late sixties, no less! I have been a fan since day one of the very first series.

Star Trek Enterprise is just carboard cutouts walking through their paces. Captain Archer tries really hard but just doesn't cut it. Captain Janeway was better (YIKES!). Even T'Pol has gotten painfully skinny and haunted looking. (I hate the falsies, and it's too bad she now needs them. She was SUCH a hottie in the first season.)

It's like a bad Disney production packed full of beige pablum. Yuckola.

Battlestar, on the other hand, is dark and edgy and really REALLY good!! There is nothing about Battlestar that I don't like. It has serious cool!

The acting and writing is so realistic...at least to my mind...that it kind of reminds me of the Sopranos. I feel like a fly on the wall watching real events take place. It just grabs me from the first few minutes, and I can't wait for the next one!

I'm a sci-fi freak from way back. I even watched the old "Lost in Space" and "Voyage to the bottom of the Sea" when I was younger becuase that was all the sci-fi that was on back then. I even followed "Land of the Giants" for as long as I could. I've read almost every science fiction novel that was written before 1985 or so. And I mean EVERYTHING!

Babylon 5 was pretty good. Firefly was lame. Starhunter has it's moments. Andromeda is stupid. Highlander...which was more fantasy than sci-fi... was pretty good. Stargate is ok and seems to be getting better. Quite a bit better lately.

But...Star Trek WAS the best. In all it's varied forms. But it died because the wrong people were put in charge. And they BLEW it!

Battlestar Galactica, on the other hand, was a stupid silly cartoon in it's original seventies form.

But THIS new one is just fine. REALLY fine! I want more.


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

Another fine piece of Sci-Fi TV is Farscape try and catch it MacNutt you won't be dissapointed.

Laterz


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## gruegoo (Dec 28, 2004)

my only problem with farscape is that its so hard to find... I think it's only available on the space channel in Toronto. I should try out galactica though, much better to start watching a show from the beginning than a few seasons in.


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## sccoaire (Feb 11, 2005)

If there's one thing this thread can demonstrate is that we all have different opinions, and it's nice to read of other's point of views. I'll add mine:

I love Star Trek Voyager. I got fascinated with TNG because of the futuristic sci-fi technologies: spaceships, lasers, warp speed, other planets, etc... I never really cared about the people interactions. I was 11, didn't know anything about English, but I loved the "visual" stuff. I can't stand the classic Star Trek because I started watching TNG. It's all about this "polished" sci-fi looks. I really didn't care about DS9, because except for a handful of episodes, it was very much geared toward social interactions and religious issues. Whenever they had shots of the wormhole open and close, I was at the edge of my seat: that's what I like about Star Trek, the artificial stuff. DS9 hooked me in because of the pilot episode, you see DS9 moving... that was freakin' awesome!

Voyager was the best for me, along those lines. The Caretakers, the Borg which I can't get enough of, fluidic space, Kes' super powers, the Borg technology imbedded in Voyager, timetravel, all that stuff. Year of Hell, Equinox, Prometheus and the series finally: my favorite episodes. Enterprise didn't catch my attention much because of that. What the hell, no transporter!! But I got into it more and more, but I'm not sad to see it go.

I think Star Trek needs a rest instead of launching new series on top of each other. To satisfy my taste for tech/sci-fi stuff, I'd like to see the next serie take place 2000 years ahead of Voyager, have completely new technologies not even heard of in the Trek world, if that's possible.

Now, as for the other shows. I never saw an original episode of Battlestar Galactica (before my time). I saw the pilot for the new serie and liked it for the story lines... the sci-fi/artifical stuff, I don't see much of it. Farscape I watched from beginning to end. Now there's something completely out there, that I really enjoyed, and miss. FYI: new episodes to conclude the very frustrating end of the serie are coming up March 25/26 I believe.

So there you have it, just my point of view. Cheers.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I've seen Farscape and was not all that impressed, to be honest. I have SAT TV and Farscape is on often enough that I could watch it, if I cared to.

I did watch it, several times. But it just didn't grab me enough to make me want to take note of it. Perhaps I'll try again, just to see if I missed something on the first three or four passes.

Battlestar Galactica (the new one, not the old), on the other hand, DID grab me right off the bat. Grabbed me by the chops and shook me really good, just to get my attention.

And I flat out love it! I've watched the first six episodes of the new series and, IMHO, it just gets better and better!!

It's terribly deep and dark and edgy and VERY real. And I predict that it will go on to become one of the very best sci-fi TV series of all time. Edward James Olmos absoloutely rocks as Commander Adama. In fact, the casting and the acting and the special effects are all waayyy beyond even the best that Hollywood normally offers us (this is a Vancouver BC production, BTW).

So...I just gotta say...

Star Trek...what's Star Trek?


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

Stargate SG1, I'd say, is probably the best SciFi show going at the moment. Stargate, in general, and depending how well Atlantis's second season goes, is in the running for best SciFi franchise, too.

Farscape was good TV. Had to just jump into, but if you watch it in order from start to finish, it's some freaking sweet TV. very imaginative, very original. Same with Firefly (which I have to say, suffered immensely due to Fox's decision not to broadcast it in any kind of coherent order).

Battlestar Galactica, it's worth pointing out, is shot at Bridge Studios in Burnaby, the same place they make both Stargate shows, Jeremiah (another decent, but hard to get in to SciFi show) and used to make The Outer Limits.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I have to agree with you on Stargate, PB. Mostly. At least the most recent seasons have been really quite good indeed. Atlantis looks to be worth a watch as well.

But they aren't even in the same league as Battlestar, IMHO. It's on a whole different level.

Firefly was just plain silly. Which is why it hardly made a ripple and died an early and well-deserved death.

Battlestar, on the other hand, will go on for several seasons and may just win the same multitude of Emmys as the Sopranos has. And for the very same reasons. It is superb television drama. The characters are deep and real and the action is top notch. It is full of surprises. Most every other sci-fi series of late, including almost all of the Star Trek franchises and Stargate, are made up of one dimensional carboard cutouts with pretty predictable repsonses...other than the standard departures like dream sequences and unexpected alien takeovers of familiar characters. Ho-hum.

Battlestar rocks. It deals with real human beings in a real crisis situation. It has traction. It is profoundly REAL.

Unless they let Berman/Braga get ahold of it (I hear they are available for new projects these days).

If that happens, it's doomed.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

I don't want to get too deep into this, but everything you said of Battlestar is also true of Firefly. The reasons it was cancelled, or rather the reasons that it's viewership was low enough for Fox to cancel it, were that a) they gave it a ****y time slot, most Fox Fridays shows end up on the slab, and b) they mixed up the order so bad no one could tell what the hell was going on. If you watch it in order, it's freakin' sweet TV.

There is a reason, after all, they made a movie out of it (to be released later this year).


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

We've been over this ground before, PosterBoy. 

The real reason that Firefly was cancelled...and the reason it made hardly a tiny ripple in the sci-fi fan community...is because it tried to combine the concept of a "space frontier" from a hundred years or so in the future, and an "American frontier" from a hundred years ago. Attempting to marry antique clothing and 1890's weapons with futuristic spaceships and rayguns...while ignoring or dismissing all of the relevant technology from about a two hundred year period in between...was terminally silly. And almost nobody bought it.

Battlestar, on the other hand, has a combination of recently old and very new with a relevant premise for this dichotomy. And the characters are so very real. No telepaths. No alien crewmembers with odd foreheads who walk around like wooden stick people while trying not to mess up the heavy makeup. No aliens from far flung parts of the galaxy who instantly speak perfect American west coast accented english...and who have the saame basic values and reactions to a given situation as we 21st century earth types do.

The Cylons are a new self-created species. They consider themselves superior to humans, and are bound and determined to wipe out their older creators.

But...they seem to be fascinated by some aspects of the human experience. Like God and religion and emotions. Which is why they do some of the things they do while trying to wipe out what's left of the colonials.

I get the idea that they are just toying with the humans and watching and learning at the same time.

Which is utterly fascinating.

And they have the last fifty thousand humans on the run. It's a giant chase, with the advantage going to the superior Cylons. Will we win? Or will they? And how will we humans deal with the stress and the deprivations of being locked up in a few hundred ships that mostly weren't meant for long journeys? How can we cope?

Again, utterly fascinating.

Nothing...and I mean NOTHING...in any of the above previously mentioned sci-fi series even comes close to this sort of tension or drama.

And the characters on Battlestar are so much more real than any of the others.

This one's got legs.

Trust me on this.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

MacNutt said:


> the reason [Firefly] made hardly a tiny ripple in the sci-fi fan community


That "tiny ripple" bought DVDs of the series in record numbers. Enough that Fox optioned it into a movie, and if the movies well enough hopefully will continue the series.



MacNutt said:


> Attempting to marry antique clothing and 1890's weapons with futuristic spaceships and rayguns...while ignoring or dismissing all of the relevant technology from about a two hundred year period in between...was terminally silly


Statements like that just prove you never really watched the show. Your loss, I assure you. Especially if you're interested in human drama, character studies, or pretty much the best effects on TV (the Firefly effects people now do BSG, BTW).

But given our "discussions" about this in the past, I doubt you'll ever change your position on it, so let's just drop it.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I watched about the first five episodes before the ringing of my bulls*t detector got so loud I had to change the channel for good. I am a sci-fi freak, and I always give every new series or movie a good hard look.

But you're right. We should drop it. It's old ground.

We must not ever again bring up the subject of "Total Recall" either, as I recall.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

I am confused as to why you even bring your BS detector to some of the stuff you bring it to, or why it seems to go off so selectively.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

It's with me all of the time. And it's very well trained to sniff out crapola.

I feed it raw meat, BTW.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

MacNutt said:


> The Cylons are a new self-created species. They consider themselves superior to humans, and are bound and determined to wipe out their older creators.
> 
> But...they seem to be fascinated by some aspects of the human experience. Like God and religion and emotions. Which is why they do some of the things they do while trying to wipe out what's left of the colonials.
> 
> I get the idea that they are just toying with the humans and watching and learning at the same time.


The Cylons are NOT self-created. The Cylons were created by the humans to do menial tasks. There was a war, eventually a cease-fire, and an agreement was written up, that they would live in their area of space, and humans in their area and yearly send a representative to a satellite base. The humans always showed up, but the Cylons never did. One year the Cylons showed up and basically destroyed all of human kind except for the Galactica fleet.

I think in a way they see humans as their God and are trying to understand humans. Cylons even started making themselves look human. But, ironically I think they find humans inferior and can't rationalize humans being their God and creator. 



MacNutt said:


> Which is utterly fascinating.
> 
> And they have the last fifty thousand humans on the run. It's a giant chase, with the advantage going to the superior Cylons. Will we win? Or will they? And how will we humans deal with the stress and the deprivations of being locked up in a few hundred ships that mostly weren't meant for long journeys? How can we cope?
> 
> ...


Some things are appearing unrealistic though, for example in one episode already, they say how many Vipers they have left, I think it's something like 39. 39 Vipers? That's not going to last long - I'm gonna be counting Vipers destroyed. Also, how are they fueling all these ships? In one of the recent episodes, they mention they have about half their fuel left. Does their fule grow on trees? 

But yes, the chase makes it interesting. Not knowing when the Cylons are going to attack.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

I just think it's funny that your "BS detector" goes off so selectively, and based on the most nit-picky of reasons, for some shows, but seems to completely ignore problems with others.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

Kosh said:


> how are they fueling all these ships? In one of the recent episodes, they mention they have about half their fuel left. Does their fule grow on trees?


No, but keep watching. 

(bear in mind that I have already seen <i>all</i> 13 of the episodes).

I am curious as to how deeply they are going to reference the original series, how much they might find or not find. Remember, all of this has happened before, all of this will happen again


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## talonracer (Dec 30, 2003)

I could never watch firefly simply because it was the reason they took Dark Angel and *droooool* Jessica Alba off the air. Unforgiveable!

I've now watched 3 BS:G episodes (whatever the past 3 on space were).. and it's quite good. I'm enjoying it. I remember being scared out of my gourd by the movie when I first saw it. Mind you, that was like kindergarten or something.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

The original Cylons were created by man. The new flesh and blood versions...which are almost indistiguishable from humans even at the cellular level were created by the Cylons themselves. A new race.

One that seems to be facinated by human emotions and the concept of God.

And, PosterBoy, my BS detector tinkled faintly when Starbuck was flying that Cylon raider back to Battlestar Galactica. Lots of holes in that particular sequence. But I put it out of my mind because the rest is so darned good. I actually consider that episode to be one of my favorites....despite the obvious flaws.


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## bopeep (Jun 7, 2004)

I'm loving this series. I have to admit that some part of me likes Enterprise too. It might be the Scott Bakula thing, Quantum Leap...  

I am curious about the 'psi-cylon' ? I just don't unnerstan that. 

I dunno who is live and who is memmorex anymore. I LOVE that !!! 

I want to get all the episodes on dvd and watch them all at once. I simply hate waiting a whole week to see what's gonna happen.


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## talonracer (Dec 30, 2003)

I like the current season of Enterprise, I find it's been a lot more exciting and even interesting than the previous years. It's a shame that they pull the plug on it now when it's really finding its legs.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I tend to agree with TalonRacer on this. It's just beginning to get really good.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

Took bloody long enough. :/


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

No sh*t. Someone should have walked into the offices of Berman and Braga and started knocking a few heads together a _LOOOONG_ time ago.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

Yeah, like around the 4th season of Voyager


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Or even slightly BEFORE the very first season of Voyager, IMHO.

The first series was a groundbreaker. STNG was great. Everything after that was a slow slide downhill.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

Since Voyager and DS9 overlapped in terms of air time, and since Brannon Braga only worked on Voyager extensively, I'd prefer that he'd left just before taking over.

The production/writing team on DS9 was quite good.

I still have respect for Berman, because he's presided over much more good Trek than he has bad.


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

talonracer said:


> I like the current season of Enterprise, I find it's been a lot more exciting and even interesting than the previous years. It's a shame that they pull the plug on it now when it's really finding its legs.


Agreed, but unfortunately it's still not finding its viewers. The main Friday time slot in the States doesn't help...

I have a feeling this show may rise from the dead in a couple of years, once a critical mass of people have had a chance to buy the fourth season on DVD and/or see it in syndication.


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

To me DS9 is the greatest Trek series ever just because the character development was set in the 1st 2 seasons then the other 5 seasons we don't have to get an explanation everytime Sysko or one of the other main characters makes a hard decision, even some of the lesser characters were developed allot further than some main characters on Voyager just look at Nog, Rom, Garak, Leeta as an example, even the Vorta Weyoun trough his 8 clones got more character development than most of the Voyager crew.

The original Star Trek was an amazing piece of Sci-Fi, Voyager had it's moments and TNG was an incredible series on it's own but when you look at DS9 as a whole it's got more susbstance than the other Trek series that came before it and the ones since it went off the air.

My .02

Laterz


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## bopeep (Jun 7, 2004)

I have always maintained that Star Trek is not supposed to be story driven. The reason people watch star trek is for the technology, not the story, oh and the designated 'hot chick'. I find it hilarious that there is always one 'differently clad' chick on the show. 

Enterprise is story driven. Not in the same sense as Babylon 5, but still story driven. Good idea, but I think they missed the mark with their target audience. 

I am a little tired of aliens that are not original. They all seem to be humanoid with some sort of cranial modification. Kosh - Babylon 5 was a cool alien. There were those water monster things on Enterprise. 

And What is with T'pol ??? She was always freaking out about something, now she looks like she belongs in a Calvin Klein print ad. I don't want to see all those bones, and I'm sure the drooling teenaged boys don't either. 

Ok, I'm done ranting for now. 

Bo


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## gruegoo (Dec 28, 2004)

K_OS said:


> To me DS9 is the greatest Trek series ever just because the character development was set in the 1st 2 seasons then the other 5 seasons we don't have to get an explanation everytime Sysko or one of the other main characters makes a hard decision, even some of the lesser characters were developed allot further than some main characters on Voyager just look at Nog, Rom, Garak, Leeta as an example, even the Vorta Weyoun trough his 8 clones got more character development than most of the Voyager crew.



I don't know about greatest series ever (I still say TNG was), but I agree with your comments. The main thing I didn't like about DS9 was all those "Quark (or whoever) goes on a wacky adventure" one-shot episodes. It was MUCH better when they stuck to a story arc that progressed over many eps.


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

gruegoo said:


> I don't know about greatest series ever (I still say TNG was), but I agree with your comments. The main thing I didn't like about DS9 was all those "Quark (or whoever) goes on a wacky adventure" one-shot episodes. It was MUCH better when they stuck to a story arc that progressed over many eps.


I agree those were the worst of the bunch the only one that I enjoyed somewhat was the one that Quark, Rom, Nog end up being the Roswell aliens.

Laterz


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

I liked The Magnificent Ferengi, but maybe that's just because Iggy Pop guest starred in it.


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## sccoaire (Feb 11, 2005)

http://www.wired.com/news/digiwood/0,1412,66707,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_4


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

I'm just upset that I missed last weeks Klingon episode.

...looking for it on the net.


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

*Save Enterprise*

Just in case anyone really wants to see Enterprise stay:

Save Enterprise


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## talonracer (Dec 30, 2003)

I find it a bit frightening that they got the $3million sponsorship....

geeks on parade!


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## SkyHook (Jan 23, 2001)

.


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## sccoaire (Feb 11, 2005)

Yeah, I'd like to know too... aside from the time travelling, that Nazi episode was very reminiscent of the Herogen occupation of Voyager and the Holodeck. Really not impressed... and those darn 2of3 episodes, not my favorite. It's either a 2 part episode, or just a continuous unfolding of events. Now they make "3-part" episodes... what the f**k?


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

We're just in rerun month. If you want a schedule you can go to http://www.sftv.org/sftv/sftv.html and see the schedule of various sci-fi and other shows. The Enterprise schedule is:

Enterprise Season Four (UPN)
Fridays at 8 pm ET/PT
http://www.startrek.com
http://www.trektoday.com

Airdate Ep # Title
-----------------------------------------------------
1/01/05 75R Zero Hour [Weekend repeat - check local listings]
1/07/05 81R The Augments [Brent Spiner]
1/14/05 85 Deadalus
1/21/05 86 The Observer Effect
1/28/05 87 Babel One
2/04/04 88 United
2/11/04 89 The Aenar
2/18/04 90 Affliction
2/25/04 91 Divergence
3/04/05 [pre-empted]
3/05/05 69R Hatchery [weekend repeat]
3/11/05 76R Storm Front Part 1
3/18/05 77R Storm Front Part 2
3/25/04 R [Fan Favorite Episode #3]
4/01/05 R [Fan Favorite Episode #2]
4/08/05 R [Fan Favorite Episode #1]
4/15/05 92 Bound
4/22/05 93 In a Mirror, Darkly Part 1
4/29/05 94 In a Mirror, Darkly Part 2
5/06/05 95 Demons
5/13/05 96 Terra Prime
5/13/05 97 These are the Voyages [Series Finale - 9:00 pm ET/PT]


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## gruegoo (Dec 28, 2004)

SkyHook said:


> Have I seen all there is to see?
> 
> I saw the Klingon virus and mutant head ridges storyline two-parter on CHUM/A-Channel, and then they went to the lonely/crazy Dr.Flox rerun, and last week was the Nazi time-travelling alien season startup rerun. Is that it for the cancellation and the rest is filler, or is something else more final squirreled away for when they're done with reruns in the spring?


Oh man the klingon virus thing really pissed me off. Have you noticed that Star Trek always uses technology to solve problems? Its never really the people that do anything, they just make up some new technobabble and remodulate the shields which somehow suddenly solves everything. In this case all the fans were asking them to explain the klingon situation and BLAM its a genetically engineered virus. Its just... too easy.


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## SkyHook (Jan 23, 2001)

.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

gruegoo said:


> In this case all the fans were asking them to explain the klingon situation and BLAM its a genetically engineered virus. Its just... too easy.


Not just any virus, a virus with <i>human DNA</i>. Which makes sense, because in recent Star Trek if remodulating the shields, adding Borg circuits to the mix or instaling holo emitters in the bathroom doesn't work, human DNA will always do the trick.


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