# Hackint0sh?



## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

What do I need to know? 
Will it brick my PC?
Is it even legal to make a hackint0sh?
I'm just curious


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Or you could do something even better.... 

Make Your Own $300 Mac: A Mac Built From MacBook Parts



> Some of you may see "Build Your Own Mac" and think, "Oh, another Hackintosh . How quaint." and move on to another Instructable. Let me say this once: This is not a Hackintosh. This is a fully-functional Mac that you can build yourself for hardly any money, using used Macbook parts.
> 
> Benefits of building a DIY-intosh (that's what I call it) over a Hackintosh:
> - No need to do any EFI or kernel hacks to get it working.
> ...


(Instructables)


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

That did not answer my questions! Is making a hackintosh legal? I can purchase an apple OSX DVD from bestbuy.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

isnipezunes said:


> That did not answer my questions! *Is making a hackintosh legal?* I can purchase an apple OSX DVD from bestbuy.


No. Apple EULA.

You can do what you want but the Mayor (ehMax) has said time and again he respects Apple's EULA. There are plenty of sites out there that address the ins and outs of creating a Hackintosh... this forum is not one where the sharing of such information is tolerated.

You can talk "abstractly" about Hackintoshes here but for the "how to do it" aspects you need to go somewhere else or your thread will be shut down... as this one may be soon....

Just lettin' you know...


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Yep. We can talk about the existence of Hackintoshes, and whether they are legal, but instructions and links to instructions are not permitted.


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## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

Honestly you Can build a hackintosh...but its not worth the trouble to do so. Buy a used Mac and you'll end up further ahead in the long run.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

CubaMark said:


> Or you could do something even better....
> 
> Make Your Own $300 Mac: A Mac Built From MacBook Parts


This really doesn't make much sense unless you get enjoyment out of builing something like that and tinkering with it.

You can buy a refurb Mini for $470.- which will give you a faster processor, a much larger hard drive, a DVD burner, more USB ports, a FW 800 port, two outputs for a display and comes with a full one year warranty plus the option to extend the warranty for two more tears for some extra money.

I buy my Macs through the Via Preference shop - that way I get almost enough additional miles to get a one-way short distance train ticket that would cost over $100.- if I bought it at regular prices.


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

ehMax said:


> Yep. We can talk about the existence of Hackintoshes, and whether they are legal, but instructions and links to instructions are not permitted.


I guess my question to the OP is what pc are you trying to use for your project?

Some Dell's are easy, others near impossible and if you run sw update it wipes out your installation.

Guess thats about as far as I can go....


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

isnipezunes said:


> That did not answer my questions! Is making a hackintosh legal? I can purchase an apple OSX DVD from bestbuy.


Technically not according to Apple's end user agreement.

And not as simple as buying the dvd and running it though that is something needed.


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

Niteshooter said:


> I guess my question to the OP is what pc are you trying to use for your project?
> 
> Some Dell's are easy, others near impossible and if you run sw update it wipes out your installation.
> 
> Guess thats about as far as I can go....


Well, its not a dell. But is it legal to do? Like will I be arrested. I don't want to know how to. Just if it's legal to do.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

isnipezunes said:


> Well, its not a dell. But is it legal to do? Like will I be arrested. I don't want to know how to. Just if it's legal to do.


No, it's not legal to do it and no, the "Apple police", if there is such a thing, won't come to arrest you.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

The chances of you getting arrested are about the same as every ehMac member simultaneously hitting the lottery, but the (obvious) answer to your question about whether its legal is NO. Not "technically no," just NO.


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

chas_m said:


> The chances of you getting arrested are about the same as every ehMac member simultaneously hitting the lottery, but the (obvious) answer to your question about whether its legal is NO. Not "technically no," just NO.


What about using an emulator? Is that illegal?


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

isnipezunes said:


> What about using an emulator? Is that illegal?


You'll have to define what you mean by this a bit more, but if you're talking about buying a copy of Windows and using it with VirtualBox, Parallels or VMWare Fusion (et al), then no, that's not the slightest bit illegal. The Windows license allows for virtualizing use.

(Apple's license for OS X Server does as well, now, but that's another story and still requires Apple hardware.)


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

chas_m said:


> You'll have to define what you mean by this a bit more, but if you're talking about buying a copy of Windows and using it with VirtualBox, Parallels or VMWare Fusion (et al), then no, that's not the slightest bit illegal. The Windows license allows for virtualizing use.
> 
> (Apple's license for OS X Server does as well, now, but that's another story and still requires Apple hardware.)


I want to run mac "inside" of windows.


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## steviewhy (Oct 21, 2010)

sudo rm -rf /


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## Tech Elementz (Mar 15, 2011)

isnipezunes said:


> I want to run mac "inside" of windows.


It is not possible. In Apple's End User License Agreement for Mac OS X Lion (as an example), states the if you wanted to install Lion, it would have to be on Apple equipment and follow specific rules for reinstalling on an Apple computer you own.

Fortunately, they have allowed the right to virtualize Lion in a Virtual Machine, but still not have the ability to install it on a PC. At this point, the legalities of installing on a PC breaks the license agreement to use Mac OS X Lion, and would presumably terminate use. 

Now you could go on about how this sucks, but people do it anyway cause they manipulate the reasoning to use it and break the EULA, or do not even give a crap about the EULA...


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

isnipezunes said:


> Well, its not a dell. But is it legal to do? Like will I be arrested. I don't want to know how to. Just if it's legal to do.


just to clarify, you would be breaking Apple's EULA, but that in itself is not necessarily "illegal". You certainly would *never* get arrested, although theoretically Apple could _try_ to take legal action against you.

EULA enforcement is really a grey area of the law, especially when there is nothing signed by the end user.

Furthermore US law has made it clear that jailbreaking an iphone is 100% legal, yet the iphone EULA still suggests the end user can not do it.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

steviewhy said:


> "Woodchuck to grey squirrel......come in grey squirrel."


:lmao:


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

i-rui said:


> just to clarify, you would be breaking Apple's EULA, but that in itself is not necessarily "illegal". You certainly would *never* get arrested, although theoretically Apple could _try_ to take legal action against you.
> 
> EULA enforcement is really a grey area of the law, especially when there is nothing signed by the end user.
> 
> Furthermore US law has made it clear that jailbreaking an iphone is 100% legal, yet the iphone EULA still suggests the end user can not do it.


Just to add...

Breaking an EULA is akin to breaking a digital lock in so much as if you are doing so for individual personal use it is pretty much a victimless "crime" and no one is going to know about it except the infringer. 

In the digital age, so long as we are talking personal use, it is pretty much up to everyone to individually police themselves and act according to their own moral/ethical compass, no matter what the law or contract (EULA) may say, because it is just so easy to get away with breaking those laws and contracts.


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

isnipezunes said:


> Well, its not a dell. But is it legal to do? Like will I be arrested. I don't want to know how to. Just if it's legal to do.


Think the rest covered the legal part...

Not a Dell ok your in for a rough ride as most other computers might not even load a hacked version of OSX.

Only one's that are moderately easy are the Dell GX520 P4HT, old Dell Mini 10, some of a Aspire One's (older versions). 

At that point you'd be further ahead picking up a used iMac Core 2 duo as they are starting to turn up between $300 - $400 for the 17".


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## Dammacx (May 22, 2006)

As someone who has done it my advice would be only do it if you want to spend lots of time researching before hand or a ton of time afterwards trying to trouble shoot. While the one I built was a super smooth and an easy build, it can get very rough if you don't do your research. So if you have lots of time and this is not your main production computer and you want to do it for the experience of building your own computer than go for it f you think you are just saving money than buy a real Mac for Mac OS.

It is far easier to have a Mac and Run Windows on it than running Mac OS on a Everyday PC.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

Niteshooter said:


> Only one's that are moderately easy are the Dell GX520 P4HT, old Dell Mini 10, some of a Aspire One's (older versions).


Even the "moderately easy" ones don't work 100%.

I always love it when people state that they have a Mac OS running perfectly on a PC - well except for the speaker, but no problem, I just use headphones; and ethernet doesn't work, but no problem, I use WiFi, and sleep doesn't work or the Hackintosh won't wake up - no problem, I just shut down and restart and pf course upgrades to a later version won't work, but again no problem, I just stick with the old one.


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

krs said:


> Even the "moderately easy" ones don't work 100%.
> 
> I always love it when people state that they have a Mac OS running perfectly on a PC - well except for the speaker, but no problem, I just use headphones; and ethernet doesn't work, but no problem, I use WiFi, and sleep doesn't work or the Hackintosh won't wake up - no problem, I just shut down and restart and pf course upgrades to a later version won't work, but again no problem, I just stick with the old one.


No kidding, yeah it sort of works except the video or sound or wireless doesn't. Then the first time you accidentally run sw update and click ok to the system update your entire installation is fried.


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

But I already got the computer.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

isnipezunes said:


> But I already got the computer.


Oooppsss... cart before horse.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

krs said:


> Even the "moderately easy" ones don't work 100%.
> 
> I always love it when people state that they have a Mac OS running perfectly on a PC - well except for the speaker, but no problem, I just use headphones; and ethernet doesn't work, but no problem, I use WiFi, and sleep doesn't work or the Hackintosh won't wake up - no problem, I just shut down and restart and pf course upgrades to a later version won't work, but again no problem, I just stick with the old one.


well they -are- used to running, a peecee though eh?


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

I've never seen a need to make a hackintosh. I much prefer Apple and Apple vintage.

.


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## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

> But I already got the computer.


Then install linux on it...and if you must use one of the OSX themes.


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

Where can I get OSX 10.6 (DVD)?


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## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

isnipezunes said:


> Where can I get OSX 10.6 (DVD)?


You can still buy them at the Apple store.

Self-righteous rant:
It was mentioned earlier that breaking the EULA is a "victimless" crime. I disagree. Apple's OS is subsidized by hardware sales. So if you buy the OS and put it on the PC - they lost money on the sale. Your portion of the development costs more than $30. I don't believe the fact that Apple is doing well financially is a valid rationalization either.


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

Do you know of any place where I can get the OSX 10.6 DVD in victoria BC?


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

isnipezunes said:


> CDo you know of any place where I can get the OSX 10.6 DVD in victoria BC?


You are joking right?? Have you even tried any of the local Mac stores?

And If they don't, CanadaRAM off Bay Ave had a packaged SL for sale for $30.00??? I believe when I was at their store last week, and they're open tomorrow Sat between 10:00am and 2:00pm I believe when I questioned when I was there this pm.

A great Mac support and equipment site you might want to use, and they have much more than just RAM and they're also very PC Windows savy.


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

Future shop, london drugs or best buy dont carry 10.6.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

OK, so call or just go to CanadaRAM tomorrow. I think they only had a single SL copy when I was there last week.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

isnipezunes said:


> Future shop, london drugs or best buy dont carry 10.6.


Just for reference, the local Future shop, london drugs or best buy stores are not exactly the best Mac support stores.

Try some of the other non-big store Authorized Mac places.

In case you can't find them:
- Byte Computers (William St off Esquimalt Rd and Anton and Clayton the Apple techs are two of the best in Canada!!)
- SOHO Computers, upper level of Burnside Ave and Douglas St.
- Westworld - Douglas St
- Simply Computers, Quadra St just south of Hillside Ave on the East side next to the old cinema.
-Restart on Yates.
And some others you can look for.

We are blessed here with Mac dealers and their support, as well as the local VMUG group you may want to consider joining.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

I was wondering why Future Shop and Best Buy no longer carry the OS 10.6 DVD.
I bought a copy at Best Buy in Montreal not too long ago but now it's not on their web sites any more - they still peddle macs in both chains.
Maybe too small a profit margin at $29.- which was their regular (not sale) price, same as Apple in either their stores or on their web site.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

krs said:


> I was wondering why Future Shop and Best Buy no longer carry the OS 10.6 DVD.
> I bought a copy at Best Buy in Montreal not too long ago but now it's not on their web sites any more - they still peddle macs in both chains.
> Maybe too small a profit margin at $29.- which was their regular (not sale) price, same as Apple in either their stores or on their web site.


Probably due to supply and demand as well as profit margin and maybe for a product (Mac OS) that is considered old???

Contacting Apple Canada is always an option, but you may need to use a pleading voice to purchase any SL install disks, and maybe use any type of plea you can think of to get a copy.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

pm-r said:


> Probably due to supply and demand as well as profit margin and maybe for a product (Mac OS) that is considered old???
> 
> Contacting Apple Canada is always an option, but you may need to use a pleading voice to purchase any SL install disks, and maybe use any type of plea you can think of to get a copy.


Why would you say that?

I just ordered three OS 10.6 DVDs from Apple.ca without any issues.
And don't you need to be running 10.6 on your Mac to be able to download 10.7?
This wouldn't make this an "old" OS since one needs it to get to the latest Mac OS.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Some of the "big store" suppliers my just not be interested, whether they could or could not obtain any Mac SL 10.6.x install disks, but I do know that some local Authorized Apple dealers could not get any copies to sell when I tried to get some a few weeks ago for some late upgrading users and maybe that's due to their Apple suppliers here on the west coast.

And when I personally called Apple Canada Customer Support on their behalf to order a copy that wasn't offered or available anywhere on their site, I was informed that they didn't even have any copies to sell.

When I asked to get elevated to someone else, and many minutes later, they finally agreed to "sell" them a "not for resale" replacement copy for the $30.00 price of SL plus another $17.00 cdn shipping and handling charge.

I, and they wish we could have experienced your same SL OS 10.6 DVD ordering experience.

Maybe it depends on who one talks to and what part of Canada one lives, but this has happened numerous times here over the last month. And it's nice to hear that you had no problems.

I sure don't know what the differences are.


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

What was the last version of SL available in the stores?

The two I bought were prior to the App store coming out.

10.6 MC223/A
10.6.3 MC573Z/A


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

pm-r said:


> I, and they wish we could have experienced your same SL OS 10.6 DVD ordering experience.


For me it went like this -

Friend of mine had a MacBookPro that wouldn't boot.
He brought it to me because he knew we had a bunch of Macs in the family and maybe I could figure out what was going on - he thouht the MacBookPro was toast.
I "fiddled" with his MBp, wouldn't boot, wouldn't take a DVD (it ejected it after a short while), the battery was toast - anyway, eventually I thought of using target disk mode which worked and I tried a fresh install of the OS that way.
Well, turned out everything started working perfectly, so I assume the original OS was corrupt.
His MBp was a few years old and originally came with Tiger.
So I decided it would make sense to order him a retail copy of OS 10.6 so that he could eventually move to Lion if he wanted to and since he also could not find his original copy of Tiger. That way he had a legitimate copy of the OS which he would also use to repair the hard drive if needed.
Checked the local FS and BB for a copy - nothing. We don't have a Mac dealer in town, so next option was to go on line.
Apple was also out of stock - shipping was shown as 2-3 weeks - so I assumed that was the reason FS and BB didn't have any.
So I just ordered on line and the OS was shipped last week.
Never dawned on me that there would be any difficulty getting it - after all, anyone who wants to upgrade to Lion and started with an OS before SL needs to buy that OS 10.6 DVD, anyway, that's what I understood from posts here about Lion.


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

I just looked on the Apple corporate store, I can buy a copy of SL and it looks like it is still 10.6.3 which then needs to have an online sw update to 10.6.8 which seems to be the current version. That will immediately break your Hackintosh....

Shipping time is 3-5 business days and has free shipping.


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

If you use the combo update download it wont destroy your computer


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

isnipezunes said:


> If you use the combo update download it wont destroy your computer


What are you talking about?


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Niteshooter said:


> I just looked on the Apple corporate store, I can buy a copy of SL and it looks like it is still 10.6.3 which then needs to have an online sw update to 10.6.8 which seems to be the current version. That will immediately break your Hackintosh....
> 
> Shipping time is 3-5 business days and has free shipping.



Nice to see that it's back and available once again, and free delivery to your door. Nice touch and saves gas. 

I guess it took a short holiday hiatus when I and others checked last month and found it wasn't available - even with a phone call to Apple Customer Support.


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

Niteshooter said:


> What are you talking about?


You dont use the system software update, you download the updates from the apple website.


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

isnipezunes said:


> You dont use the system software update, you download the updates from the apple website.


And you obviously haven't built a Hackintosh since running the update no matter how you got it will break your installation!


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

Niteshooter said:


> And you obviously haven't built a Hackintosh since running the update no matter how you got it will break your installation!


You also have to do an extra step wich is run another installer.


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## Tech Elementz (Mar 15, 2011)

No wonder he wants to build a hackintosh.... He is a PC assassin... 

Seeing as he wants to use Mac OS X without an actual Mac, he wants to put it on a PC......


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

Haha!


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

isnipezunes said:


> You also have to do an extra step wich is run another installer.


Why don't you try it?
You know where to get the Mac 10.6,3 install disk.

I don't recall you ever posting which PC you want to run the Mac OS on, but I can tell you right now that this will be an exercise in frustration, wasting hours, no - days of your time, and the end result will be most unsatisfactory.

One thing I found out in the PC world is that PC manufacturers don't control their product make up very well.
By that I mean you could have ten different people with exactly the same model PC from the same manufacturer but the guts inside are different - different WiFi cards or modules, different Bluetooth modules, obviously different manufacturers hard drives and RAM where the different hard drives shouldn't matter but the RAM sure does.

Bottom line - the Hackintosh arrangement that works for one person may not work for the next person with the identical model PC simply because the guts are slightly different.
Same applies for Mac OS upgrades and running another installer - may work, may also break the existing install.

If you have a spare PC and you want to play with it in that manner to learn something or just for fun - sure go to it.
But if this is a PC that you need to use on a regular and reliable basis - watch out!


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

I'm gonna hackintosh a used PC someone gave me, not the family computer!


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

?


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## kelman (Sep 25, 2010)

+1 ?


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## Tech Elementz (Mar 15, 2011)

kelman said:


> +1 ?


+ 1 fact. Did you know that racecar backwards is still racecar?


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

isnipezunes said:


> I'm gonna hackintosh a used PC someone gave me, not the family computer!


It's probably going to be more work than dropping a big Chevy, Olds or Caddy V-8 into an old Ford that so many of the Langford guys seem to do.

You may be better off by grabbing some of the Macs, including some Mac Pros and others that I saw dropped off at the Salvation Army Thrift/recycling store on Quadra St. the other day.

Possibly still some good life left in many of them and maybe just a small $ investment needed to get them working.

PS: Hmmm... "trust me, i'm a pilot!" Hmmm.... not with me aboard thanks.


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

I don't have much money.


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## Dammacx (May 22, 2006)

Niteshooter said:


> And you obviously haven't built a Hackintosh since running the update no matter how you got it will break your installation!


Not 100% True. I use software update all the time and have no issues. Now updating to Lion is a different story but Software Update itself has in my case not caused any problems. Is yy Mac 100% glitch free - NO - But I have worked with Macs for a while and in Lab settings as a tech support guy and No Computer is without its glitches. I am not pitching one way or another for or against doing a Hacintosh vs a Real Mac. I had my reasons for doing mine at the time. I just think as a discussion I want to relate my experiences vs others. One of the reasons I have had no serious issues with mine and why my computer is stable enough to use as my main production machine is I didn't try and shoehorn Mac OS on a Dell or other existing computer with who knows what parts. I did research and built a custom computer with parts that were known to be compatible. For me it was a learning/hobby type experience as I had never built a computer from scratch. Do I recommend it for everyone. Hell No. I think the acid test to do it should be - can you find and understand all the info without having to ask someone else for help. Also don't build it because you think it is "cheaper" because what you might save in money will be made up for with time either researching so you don't have problems or fixing problems after the fact.


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

I will respect the Mayor's order in regards to no details but you will have better getting all your answers directing them to a proper site.

I built a hackintosh for playing WoW over the winter months. I played it on my Mini but to get quality graphics it was either a Mac Pro or hackintosh. Since, I use this computer for 3-4 months dropping MacPro money wasn't justifiable. I also wanted to give it a shot, I am in IT and therefore it peaked my interest.

I knew it broke EULA. I sleep at night knowing I still own 2 Macs, plan on buy an MBA or MBP when my MB needs replacing and own all my software. Still illegal yes, I just said it's how I sleep. 

If I had said to much, my apologies and please delete this post.


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## imactheknife (Aug 7, 2003)

I built a Hackintosh and to honest, I would never do it again. It's to much of a pain in the Arse. I love my macbook pro. I will get a newer iMac once I can afford it and trash the Hackitosh


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

Dammacx said:


> Not 100% True. I use software update all the time and have no issues. Now updating to Lion is a different story but Software Update itself has in my case not caused any problems. Is yy Mac 100% glitch free - NO - But I have worked with Macs for a while and in Lab settings as a tech support guy and No Computer is without its glitches. I am not pitching one way or another for or against doing a Hacintosh vs a Real Mac. I had my reasons for doing mine at the time. I just think as a discussion I want to relate my experiences vs others. One of the reasons I have had no serious issues with mine and why my computer is stable enough to use as my main production machine is I didn't try and shoehorn Mac OS on a Dell or other existing computer with who knows what parts. I did research and built a custom computer with parts that were known to be compatible. For me it was a learning/hobby type experience as I had never built a computer from scratch. Do I recommend it for everyone. Hell No. I think the acid test to do it should be - can you find and understand all the info without having to ask someone else for help. Also don't build it because you think it is "cheaper" because what you might save in money will be made up for with time either researching so you don't have problems or fixing problems after the fact.


Well that would help to build to order. Yes it's hard to skirt around this topic given the forum rules.

Suffice to say I built about 10 Hackintoshes using Dell, Acer and Gateway PC's.

The internal components are absolutely critical and in some cases I had to swap out parts in order to make the thing work. But in all cases I found sw update broke the installations though I did read about a different way of doing them. Still way to much futzing around IMHO.

As a time waster because I can it was interesting, if I really needed to run OSX I'd get a real Mac as they are now cheap enough in the used market. For example I picked up a nice iMac Core 2 Duo for $300 the other day. Dropped in the max amount of ram and even pulled it apart and tossed in a 2TB hard drive for fun.

With the Hackintoshes I have to warn the users that if they run a system sw update they stand the real possibility of bricking their machine. Updates for most of the programs run fine.


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

Niteshooter said:


> Well that would help to build to order. Yes it's hard to skirt around this topic given the forum rules.
> 
> Suffice to say I built about 10 Hackintoshes using Dell, Acer and Gateway PC's.
> 
> ...


Are hackintoshes legal?


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

technically no. the EULA for os x specifies it must be installed and run only on apple hardware


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

So using an emulator is illegal?


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

nope


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

Niteshooter said:


> And you obviously haven't built a Hackintosh since running the update no matter how you got it will break your installation!


Are you talking software updates? I've let Lion do it's thing without any problems save for re-applying a sound card kext, but this is coming to close to advice.  I just wanted to clarify what I felt to be misinformation.


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

RunTheWorldOnMac said:


> Are you talking software updates? I've let Lion do it's thing without any problems save for re-applying a sound card kext, but this is coming to close to advice.  I just wanted to clarify what I felt to be misinformation.


Yeah it's really hard to talk about this without going over the line. I'm talking about OS updates not the 'other' updates. At least in the one's I've built the machine won't boot up again though perhaps there is something I'm missing..... or not....


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

Niteshooter said:


> Yeah it's really hard to talk about this without going over the line. I'm talking about OS updates not the 'other' updates. At least in the one's I've built the machine won't boot up again though perhaps there is something I'm missing..... or not....


Agreed, I can feel the heat from the fire. I was talking about software updates of OS X. I went from 10.7 to 10.7.1 using Software Update without any hiccups other then need to re-apply kext for sound card. 

However, I have heard that some updates do in fact break Hackintosh installs so we shall both be correct and maybe it best we go no further... ha ha ha


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

runtheworldonmac said:


> agreed, i can feel the heat from the fire. I was talking about software updates of os x. I went from 10.7 to 10.7.1 using software update without any hiccups other then need to re-apply kext for sound card.
> 
> However, i have heard that some updates do in fact break hackintosh installs so we shall both be correct and maybe it best we go no further... Ha ha ha


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## RobTheGob (Feb 10, 2003)

If you pick your hardware carefully - then building a Hackintosh is a no-brainer. It's about as hard as programming a VCR in the 80's.

If I was to go to my back room and randomly pick a PC and decide to run OS X on it - it is definitely more difficult. But in most cases - it's not that bad, especially if you have any kind of a [email protected] background. Kind of like overclocking a first gen Power Mac.

Having said that - I'm a huge fan of Apple hardware. The reason why I went this route last year was because Apple had no solution for the yellow screen 27" iMacs and the one I bought was *very* yellow. I needed more horsepower and a Mac Mini wasn't gonna cut it... I ended up with the power of an quad core i7 iMac for the price of a Core 2 Duo Mac Mini.

This year - we tried another 27" iMac and the yellow is mostly non-existent. Buying a refurb 27" is definitely bang-for-the-buck (if you need/want a display).

You also need to think hard and do some reading before blindly taking OS updates. If that bothers you - Apple.ca is your friend...


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

So miaking a hackintosh, is like, jailbreaking an iPhone? Against the EULA, but legal as in its not a crime.


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

If you want to look at it from the letter of the law, then yes it is illegal and therefore a crime to do so.

Is it enforced, no. Apple's lawyers will not be serving you with papers for a date in court. If you happened to start a business selling Hackintoshes and Apple caught wind of it, then you will have your day in court.


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## RobTheGob (Feb 10, 2003)

"Illegal" is likely a strong term - apparently if you install on non-Apple hardware, you are breaking the EULA. 

Just like breaking a contract opens a person up to the possibility of a lawsuit (and possibly paying damages), it wouldn't usually end up in an arrest. It would be like moving out of an apartment after six months into a twelve month lease.

Having said that - if you install from media that you paid for, I doubt there is a court in the country that would do anything about it. Just because there is a clause on page XXX of some EULA (that nobody reads) that says you can't install on an ASUS motherboard, that doesn't automatically mean that there would be a ruling against you... 

The court would likely say you acted in a reasonable and understandable manner and buying OS X would lead you to believe you can run it...


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

RunTheWorldOnMac said:


> If you want to look at it from the letter of the law, then yes it is illegal and therefore a crime to do so.


this is incorrect. breaking an EULA is not in itself "illegal". it would be a civil matter, so the company would have to proceed to take legal action, and then a judge would have to rule on the matter.

*just because a company puts something in their EULA does not mean it's a LAW*. if an EULA said that they could take your first born if you break their EULA do you think that would stand up in court? 

breach of contract is a real grey area of the law, and the truth is without written & signed consent a EULA has very little legal legs to stand on.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

broad said:


> technically no. the EULA for os x specifies it must be installed and run only on apple hardware


It's interesting that Apple's EULA for Leopard says:
"APPLE INC. SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR MAC OS X Single Use and Family Pack License for use on Apple-labeled Systems ..."

And their Snow Leopard EULA says:
"APPLE INC. SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR MAC OS X Single Use, Family Pack and Leopard Upgrade Licenses for use on Apple-branded Systems

So, whether it's a "Apple-labeled Systems" or a "Apple-branded Systems", just throwing some Apple Mac parts into a Hackbox won't cover the "installed and run only on apple hardware" part.


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

i-rui said:


> breach of contract is a real grey area of the law, and the truth is without written & signed consent a EULA has very little legal legs to stand on.


Ok that makes sense.


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## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

For grey matters like this, I usually just ask myself "what if everyone did this?"

Apple would either get very good at putting DRM in the OS. Either based on reading something from the hardware on Apple systems, or product activation. I wouldn't mind the former, but definitely don't want the latter.


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

i-rui said:


> this is incorrect. breaking an EULA is not in itself "illegal". it would be a civil matter, so the company would have to proceed to take legal action, and then a judge would have to rule on the matter.
> 
> *just because a company puts something in their EULA does not mean it's a LAW*. if an EULA said that they could take your first born if you break their EULA do you think that would stand up in court?
> 
> breach of contract is a real grey area of the law, and the truth is without written & signed consent a EULA has very little legal legs to stand on.


ok, yes, true.. you would be in breach of contract as opposed to breaking the law persay.. 

Steve does have enough money to make it a law though...


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## Tech Elementz (Mar 15, 2011)

pm-r said:


> So, whether it's a "Apple-labeled Systems" or a "Apple-branded Systems", just throwing some Apple Mac parts into a Hackbox won't cover the "installed and run only on apple hardware" part.


They should of said Apple manufacturer computers. Apple-branded systems could have Mac parts in a PC case.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

I guess they could have but I think Apple is smarter than that to be so restrictive.

There are many, including some ehMac list members I believe, who have done some pretty fancy mods using Apple/Mac parts in a PC case, and Apple just might be looking at some of them for future ideas and models.

I guess if one wanted to take Apple's EULA to absolute absurdity, how many of us have replaced their hard drive with a non Apple labeled/branded hard drive and installed and used it to run the OS, and even when Apple states that a hard drive replacement isn't even a user option on some models.

Or even using a non-Apple external drive with their OS installed??

I'm sure Apple is quite thrilled either way that so many are using their OS, and just pay them for its use - hopefully on their purchased and supplied equipment.


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

So hackintoshes are legal, but illegal according to apple.


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## The G3 Man (Oct 7, 2008)

I always have bought licensed OS X copies for my hackintosh.


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

Hackintoshes are a pain in the ass. I've built two now, and even while using all the right parts listed in the compatibility lists, I still had random issues that would drive me nuts. Personally, I just don't think it's worth it just to save a couple hundred bucks.

Besides all that, Apple hardware just looks nicer.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

isnipezunes said:


> So hackintoshes are legal, but illegal according to apple.


Gosh - does it really make any difference?

Unless you plan to set up a manufacturing plant and crank out hundreds of thousands of Mac Clones Apple isn't going to take you to court and without some court case and a verdict you will never know if building one or two hackintoshes is illegal.
There are tons of websites about hackintoshes - I don't think Apple has tried to shut any of them down. Their approach basically seems to be "buy a legal copy of the OS and you're good to go"
If a court would agree with that I have no clue - obviously Apple is either not interested in pursuing that or, as some have suggested (not necessarily on ehMac) that Apple is concerned that they may loose the case so they rather not rattle the boat.

If I were the Apple Chief Exec I would do exactly the same thing.
Make it a bit awkward to get the full Mac OS functionality using *all* third party hardware, but otherwise focus to give people who buy Macs a superior User experience.
They have and are continuing to do extremely well with that approach - why rock the boat and go after individuals that try to buld a hackintosh - that would just become a public relations nightmare.

Anyone remember what happened to the court cases a few years back when the music industry tried to haul individuals to court because they were accused of illegally downloading music?
That to me is clearly more illegal (if there is such a thing as more and less illegal) than building a hackintosh and using a legitimate copy of the OS......but that effort by the music industry just fizzled out. At least I haven't heard any more and I'm sure illegal downloading is still as common as it has ever been.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

isnipezunes said:


> So hackintoshes are legal, but illegal according to apple.





krs said:


> Gosh - does it really make any difference?
> 
> Unless you plan to set up a manufacturing plant and crank out hundreds of thousands of Mac Clones Apple isn't going to take you to court and without some court case and a verdict you will never know if building one or two hackintoshes is illegal...


isnipezunes, it's pretty clear actually and isn't difficult to understand Hackintoshishes break Apples EULA. You aren't breaking "the law" you are breaking a contract and can be sued for if Apple chooses to pursue it as they did in the case with Psystar for those who remember the case Apple pursued them in the courts with great vigor and "In November 2009, a U.S. Federal District Court ruled Psystar violated Apple's copyrights in doing so" (making hackintoshishes).

This is the kind of situation that krs is referring to where Apple will take you to court, they have not and probably never will take an individual to court for making a hackintosh but just because they won't doesn't mean that you aren't breaking the EULA.

As I said 65 posts ago now...

Breaking an EULA is akin to breaking a digital lock in so much as if you are doing so for individual personal use it is pretty much a victimless "crime" and no one is going to know about it except the infringer.

In the digital age, so long as we are talking personal use, it is pretty much up to everyone to individually police themselves and act according to their own moral/ethical compass, no matter what the law or contract (EULA) may say, because it is just so easy to get away with breaking those laws and contracts.

Est-ce clair ?


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

I am never even planning to build a hackintosh, I just am curious about if they are legal...


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

My troll-0-meter is starting to quiver.....


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## steviewhy (Oct 21, 2010)

sudo rm -rf /


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

isnipezunes said:


> I am never even planning to build a hackintosh, I just am curious about if they are legal...


Hmmm... 87 posts later since your first post, I guess you got your answer.

Probably a good choice after reading some of the posts form those that have and dealing with all the hackintosh quirks.

Gheese, I have a fellows cantankerous MB core duo with a new battery, RAM and a pristine OS on a new zeroed out hard drive that keeps deciding to go into a kernel panic every so often on a boot up and its bad enough to try and fix properly and I'd sure take my hat off to those that had to deal with a similar problem with any un-supported hackbox!!!


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

No Trolls in Langford, except maybe some members of their local police force!! 

The rest are too busy building their super championship quality hot rods and Modifieds, and some of them are North American championship winners I might add.


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## jamesB (Jan 28, 2007)

isnipezunes said:


> I am never even planning to build a hackintosh, I just am curious about if they are legal...


In view of this last statement of yours....
all of these earlier statements would indicate you have been "trolling"
---------------------
Will it brick my PC?
But I already got the computer.
Where can I get OSX 10.6 (DVD)?Do you know of any place where I can get the OSX 10.6 DVD in victoria BC?
I'm gonna hackintosh a used PC someone gave me, not the family computer!
---------------------
This last statement is directly opposite of what you are now saying.


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

I was joking...


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

isnipezunes said:


> I was joking...


Just as a fatherly type suggestion here, but you may want to mature and grow up a bit to your what, 14 age now, if you want any of your posts to be treated with any respect and not get treated as a Troll which some of your posts seem to be.

My youngest son at that same age some 14-15 years ago was well into Macs and computers as well as programming and was a real asset and helper to our local VMUG group.

Just saying...

And BTW: I can hear some of the Langford cars running at the Western Speedway this evening, over the hills and all the way to Brentwood Bay. And some of the pit people there are about your age and quite mature and constructive.


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

ok


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

But im never gonna make a hackintosh.


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

...


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

isnipezunes said:


> ...



?????

PEBKAC ??? 



Edit: Why won't an upper case capitalized version of PEBKAC save as such when posting??
I keeps showing up as just a first letter capitalized word.

I'll try again.

Edit: And with the proper PEBKAC expression this time.


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

pm-r said:


> ?????
> 
> PEBCAC ???
> 
> ...


lol, I've noticed the same thing on many forums... I just keep editing it til it takes. Looks like that worked for you as well.


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

deleted


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

I like macintosh computers


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

I installed linux on an old PC.


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