# McGuinty’s election promises



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Are you guys really buying into this garbage?



> Here in Ontario, Dalton McGuinty’s Liberals have created a kerfuffle. Their list of election promises includes a dopey scheme to give a $10,000 tax credit to any business that hires a skilled new immigrant who’s unemployed. This half-baked idea has been correctly denounced as naked pandering to the immigrant vote – even by immigrants themselves.
> 
> ...
> 
> The Liberals are convinced that micro-pandering to crucial market segments is their key to re-election. And so we have, in no particular order, pledges to bring back doctors’ house calls for the elderly, a “healthy snack” program for schoolchildren, a home renovation tax credit to help your dear old mom install a walk-in shower, a whopping postsecondary tuition cut for the middle class, and a vow to reduce childhood obesity rates by 20 per cent. (Good luck with that.) The Premier will even refund your money if the trains don’t run on time.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

OH MY GOD! A party pandering to the immigrant vote????

no party ever did that in the last election.

*cough*


----------



## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

What, you don't like sunshine and lollipops?

Sure beats the whole "Let's keep out the foreigners" doom and gloom.
Canada News: Hudak steps up attacks on Liberal plan for ?foreign workers? - thestar.com


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

people would truly like to boot McGuinty out, but the problem is Hudak is also a complete idiot.


----------



## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

groovetube said:


> people would truly like to boot McGuinty out, but the problem is Hudak is also a complete idiot.


As I've been saying... up until a few months ago, all Hudak had to do is keep his mouth shut and not be Dalton McGuinty, and he'd be in. However:

1) Hudak opened his mouth.
2) Rob Ford's recent antics have a few people worried about a right-wing trifecta.
3) Jack Layton's death has reawakened some people's sense of social consciousness.

I'm still not quite comfortable calling this one, but I'm wondering more and more if McGuinty will get through this. 

For me personally, if McGuinty can be the thin red line holding back the worst of Rob Ford's 'vision', I'll take McGuinty.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

McGunity is pathetic idiot, yet Hudak offers no spending cuts of any significance. I will vote against McGuinty, but only reluctantly for Hudak.


----------



## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

Macfury said:


> McGunity is pathetic idiot, yet Hudak offers no spending cuts of any significance. I will vote against McGuinty, but only reluctantly for Hudak.


Hudak is a repulsing idiot. He will do incredible damage to this province.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Adrian. said:


> Hudak is a repulsing idiot. He will do incredible damage to this province.


McGuinty is a proven idiot. I doubt Hudak could do worse.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Harper was a proven idiot who clearly spent way more than anyone, grew government bigger than anyone with pie in the sky promises to reverse it, yet you voted for the proven spender.

The logic simply doesn't add up. "I'll vote for the unkown fool who shows signs of doing more damage because I don't like the liberal"

Surely you're capable of better logic than this.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

McGuinty has a lot of support from the kook fringe, but it won't be enough. You can't get by on votes only from people who froth at the mouth when they hear the word "conservative." Even if they are very loud, they have only one vote each.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

and somehow they're better than the ones who crap their pants at the idea of a liberal in power? 

If it's 'kooky' to not wish the same decimation that harris started to occur again in ontario and is happening federally, than so be it. You want to vote for a liar and fool, froth away my friend. Let's replace an idiot, with an even bigger idiot!

Unfortunately, the conservatives have a moron for a leader. If the conservatives put forth a real leader who I thought is trustworthy and wouldn't cut services to hand tax breaks to the corporations while duping fools they'll get the trickle down, I would certainly consider voting for him.

oh, and I love how this conservative continually blames it on is wife.
Hillier under fire over unpaid taxes

Real class.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

FeXL, I think you get the idea. Some people are buying it--hell, they're paying double for it!


----------



## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

Macfury said:


> McGuinty has a lot of support from the kook fringe, but it won't be enough. You can't get by on votes only from people who froth at the mouth when they hear the word "conservative." Even if they are very loud, they have only one vote each.


Seeing as up until a few months ago I was thinking that it might make sense to vote for Hudak this time around, no, I do not think it's just the mouth-foaming kook fringe who are considering McGuinty now.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Sonal said:


> Seeing as up until a few months ago I was thinking that it might make sense to vote for Hudak this time around, no, I do not think it's just the mouth-foaming kook fringe who are considering McGuinty now.


you're right about the Hudak / mouth thing. But truthfully, thank god he did open his mouth because at one point I thought well, even though I dislike him it wouldn't be all bad if he got in. But I'm starting to think otherwise as well. Just as well we get a real look at who could be premier.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Sonal said:


> Seeing as up until a few months ago I was thinking that it might make sense to vote for Hudak this time around, no, I do not think it's just the mouth-foaming kook fringe who are considering McGuinty now.


No, I don't believe his only support comes from the kook fringe. However, they are loud supporters of McGuinty--the windmills and deficits crowd.


----------



## (( p g )) (Aug 17, 2002)

Macfury said:


> ...they are loud supporters of McGuinty--the windmills and deficits crowd.


Plus the folks who can do addition.


----------



## (( p g )) (Aug 17, 2002)

FeXL said:


> Are you guys really buying into this garbage?


Goodness me. Why this is an outrage! Let's ask one of those common sense Conservatives at the federal level how they approach this issue. 

_"...we all have a role to play in helping new Canadians make the transition into our workplace. This isn’t only to help newcomers succeed. It just makes great business sense. We don’t want to lose some of the world’s best employees to our competitors in other countries.“_

--The Hon. Jason Kenney, P.C., M.P., Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism, At the 2010 Top 100 Employers Summit, Toronto, Ontario, November 1, 2010


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

yes we all know conservatives know lots about deficits...


----------



## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

groovetube said:


> you're right about the Hudak / mouth thing. But truthfully, thank god he did open his mouth because at one point I thought well, even though I dislike him it wouldn't be all bad if he got in. But I'm starting to think otherwise as well. Just as well we get a real look at who could be premier.


It would be nice one day to have an election where it was a choice between 2 or 3 really good viable candidates instead of the usual best of a bad lot.


----------



## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

Macfury said:


> No, I don't believe his only support comes from the kook fringe. However, they are loud supporters of McGuinty--the windmills and deficits crowd.


Yes, and the loudest supporters of Hudak are also the kook fringe... different kooks, different fringe, but kook fringe nonetheless.

Face it, the loudest voices are almost always that of the kook fringes.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

(( p g )) said:


> Goodness me. Why this is an outrage! Let's ask one of those common sense Conservatives at the federal level how they approach this issue.
> 
> _"...we all have a role to play in helping new Canadians make the transition into our workplace. This isn’t only to help newcomers succeed. It just makes great business sense. We don’t want to lose some of the world’s best employees to our competitors in other countries.“_
> 
> --The Hon. Jason Kenney, P.C., M.P., Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism, At the 2010 Top 100 Employers Summit, Toronto, Ontario, November 1, 2010


All of that pandering is ridiculous. Let the other countries b8id up the salaries of immigrants and then let them go to the highest bidder.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

oh the atom smasher disintegrates when someone suggests voting against is actually voting for the party actively involved in setting down the policy it rails against.

What a conundrum.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Sonal said:


> It would be nice one day to have an election where it was a choice between 2 or 3 really good viable candidates instead of the usual best of a bad lot.


is it really too much to ask? For once, I'd like to see a really truly centrist conservative candidate not hell bent on destroying a decent social services system with massive tax cuts to the upper end, pretty much zip for the middle class, while pretending to be the leader for the regular Ontarian. Is there not room for sanity? Ensuring properly funded -sane- programs, proper revenue to ensure deficits don't go to ridiculous levels, bah. it's frustrating.

All that happens is the citizens bash each other over the head in a heated us and them war fighting over dumb and dumber, and we still get screwed.

I say there's room dead center for a sane party that doesn't overspend, doesn't hand obscene tax breaks to corporations (which end up in fat corp bonuses) and smart politics.


----------



## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

groovetube said:


> is it really too much to ask? For once, I'd like to see a really truly centrist conservative candidate not hell bent on destroying a decent social services system with massive tax cuts to the upper end, pretty much zip for the middle class, while pretending to be the leader for the regular Ontarian. Is there not room for sanity? Ensuring properly funded -sane- programs, proper revenue to ensure deficits don't go to ridiculous levels, bah. it's frustrating.
> 
> All that happens is the citizens bash each other over the head in a heated us and them war fighting over dumb and dumber, and we still get screwed.
> 
> I say there's room dead center for a sane party that doesn't overspend, doesn't hand obscene tax breaks to corporations (which end up in fat corp bonuses) and smart politics.


You and me both. I'd like an old-fashioned Blue Liberal vs. Red Tory election, with a dash of Orange NDP just to keep everyone conscious of the most vulnerable Canadians.


----------



## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

McGuinty was more of a do-nothing premiere than a dangerous one. Fact is, I'm not worse off than I was before McGuinty came to power. Hudak, I believe will do actual damage.

What I don't like about McGuinty is that he had a hand in the G20 travesty and he didn't fulfill his promise to disband the OMB.

However, I believe Hudak will do much worse.

It's going to be ABC for me. Again.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I am worse off and it is the direct result of McGuinty policies.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Macfury said:


> I am worse off and it is the direct result of McGuinty policies.


of course you are.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

hayesk said:


> McGuinty was more of a do-nothing premiere than a dangerous one. Fact is, I'm not worse off than I was before McGuinty came to power. Hudak, I believe will do actual damage.
> 
> What I don't like about McGuinty is that he had a hand in the G20 travesty and he didn't fulfill his promise to disband the OMB.
> 
> ...


that's pretty much it.


----------



## kps (May 4, 2003)

I hope the rest of Ontarians aren't as gullible as to give that lying SOB another 4 years.

I'm glad Hayesk isn't any worse off...LOL. Somehow I doubt he'd be worse off if Hudak was there either. 

The list below I'll admit, I'm borrowing from the internet via copy & paste, but it's still valid:

He increased all the licensing fees from your car to your boat including fishing and hunting.
He introduced the health care premium (not called a tax) some couples pay as much as $1,500.00 a year.
He closed the emergency rooms in Port Colburne and Fort Erie because there is not enough money and there has been two deaths since because by the time they got to St.Catharines it was to late.
But awards a hospital in Toronto three million dollars in the riding where there just happens to be a by-election to replace George Smitherman
He doubled the price of most lottery tickets. (Not called a tax).
He has put a ECO tax on many containers such as paint cans and window washer fluid. Most people still don’t realize it is on your bill. He kept that one real quiet
He has put a disposal tax on all electronics.
He has put the disposal tax back on tires
Now don’t forget that all except the health care premium are subject to the GST and PST (taxes on taxes.)
And now he has passed the HST the largest tax on the province ever, the only other tax in Ontario that ever came close to this in the past was the health care premium.
He passed this bill even though 76% of the people in Ontario were against it.
This HST will provide the Province with an additional THREE BILLION dollars a year.
And now we will have our S.M.A.R.T. meters that we will have to pay rent on and do our laundry in the middle of the night and we are going to pay big time for air conditioning from now on because when we need it the most that will be prime time. As if it costs any more to produce hydro at two in the afternoon or ten at night another tax grab.
Let us not forget the E-health scandal with one point two billion dollars wasted and paid out to friends and relatives.
What was Mr. McGuinty’s answer to this (well if the people of Ontario don’t like it they can show it in the next election.) Nice attitude. This was after he fired the CEO and gave her a severance package of three hundred thousand dollars not bad for only having the job for seven months.
Then the windmill power plant he awards the contract to KOREA seven BILLION DOLLARS. One would think that there was some place in Canada or North America that could have built these. And he will pay them 80 cents per KWH, while we pay (now) 8 cents per KWH. Something has to give. Want to bet who will "pay"?
He has taken the richest most prosperous province in Canada to one of the poorest and has created a deficit of TWENTY SEVEN BILLION DOLLARS 
And don’t forget his nice little salary increase of $40,000.00 a year, millions of people in the province don’t earn half that. 
All the MPP’S got 14% increase
Now that they all got nice increases he comes out with a new budget and freezes all provincial employees wages for two years. 
He has increased the hydro by 10% in April of 2010.
He has increased the tax on liquor and wine by 10% in May of 2010 
But mister no tax McGuinty will retire with his nice comfortable pension and all his paid benefits.


----------



## kps (May 4, 2003)

Sonal said:


> As I've been saying... up until a few months ago, all Hudak had to do is keep his mouth shut and not be Dalton McGuinty, and he'd be in. However:
> 
> 1) Hudak opened his mouth.
> 2) Rob Ford's recent antics have a few people worried about a right-wing trifecta.
> ...


Agree a 100% --should have just been "Not Dalton McGuinty"....

However, can't agree with taking another 4 yrs of that a**hole McGuinty.


----------



## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

hayesk said:


> McGuinty was more of a do-nothing premiere than a dangerous one. Fact is, I'm not worse off than I was before McGuinty came to power. Hudak, I believe will do actual damage.
> 
> *What I don't like about McGuinty is that he had a hand in the G20 travesty and he didn't fulfill his promise to disband the OMB.*
> 
> ...


a big +1.

the G20 fiasco left a real sour taste in my mouth, and McGuinty should have shown some balls and stood up for civilian rights.

however if the choice is between him and a conservative, then there is no choice at all. 

maybe the ndp will step up to the plate.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> He has taken the richest most prosperous province in Canada to one of the poorest and has created a deficit of TWENTY SEVEN BILLION DOLLARS


I see he actually raised the dollar above the US and caused the sub prime mortgage meltdown all on his own.??!! 

I note you don't mention Harper overseeing some $180 billion federal deficit - given Ontario's % of the GDP one could say he did rather better than Harper's nonsense. And unlike Harper did not cut taxes in some mummery of Reagan's trickle down theory.

At McGuinty understands that part of getting rid of a deficit is raising taxes and funds via lottery tickets are viable means for those that like voluntary taxation so your "complaint" about that is laughable.

McGuinty is no leader - he's a technocrat - he's done some things okay and face planted on others.
Blaming him for the collapse of manufacturing in Ontario without mentioning the Harper subsidized infliction of Dutch disease is the height of blinkered partisanship.....but then whenever do we get a balanced view from the foam at the mouth right these days. So your rant is nothing new.


Draft Bill Davis.


----------



## kps (May 4, 2003)

Bound to be one or two stretches in that list, but still, if there's one politician I can not stand it's Dalt "the Dud" McGuinty. 

I'm hoping the TO NDPers will punish him for jerking Miller around over Toronto transportation.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Well then I'm looking forward to hudak killing the hst, lowering my taxes and improving health care.

Oh to hell with the foreigners. You know he wouldn't pander to that vote and will make things right.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Bill Davis? That stale old pinko?

He was the one that extended Catholic school funding as a gift to the Pope and killed the Allen Expressway.


----------



## Lichen Software (Jul 23, 2004)

I can't say that much about Hudak in terms of the person or even the skill set. Still getting to know him. 

I do believe that he is in the same position if he wins that Harris was in when he took power. At that time, Bob Ray had tried to spend his way out of a recession with stimulus spending and when he realized that one province doing it would not work he tried some cuts including Ray Days and got royally reamed by the unions. Harris seeing this had no choice in my opinion except slash and burn. He is still being pilloried for it.

Rob Ford is in the same position now. In both cases, spending and entitlements were totally out of control. He will also be pilloried.

If Hudak wins and actually tries to do the right thing, he will be pilloried too.

McGuinty is a dangerous stupid lying fool. 

His spending is out of control. 

He does not have the gumption to tell a union that they are well off as they are and to pound sand. He would rather do a secret deal instead.

He plays favourites with his perceived supporters. Anyone in Northern Ontario can tell you that the have had to suck dirt. He is shutting down the northern three quarters of the province. 

Our power crisis is totally manufactured by him. He took plants off line before having replacements. It has been like watching a bad movie. On the good side, we no longer have power shortages. That's because many of the businesses are now shut down.

The $1000 immigrant job bonus is a ploy. You have highly qualified immigrants here in many fields that cannot work because the "Professional Bodies" do not want to recognize them. And lets be clear, they do not want to recognize them as it would increase the supply of these people and lower their rates. He does not want to tackle these bodies head on and perhaps even remove their authority, so he is just trying to buy his way out.

All day kindergarten is crap. That gets us $70,000 per year babysitters that I get to pay for so some one's wife can go out and work and bring home the full salary. It has nothing to do with education. People are so hungry for money that they are willing to give their kids to "The Creche" from birth if possible. Now that that one is out there, there is not one politician that will be able to say "are you out of you mind?" without being branded. This is using education funds for the economic betterment of a select portion of society.

That's like our health tax, that was never used for health expenditures.

We have gone from the richest province in the country to a have not province under this man. Minor rural/urban conflict has become a festering sore.

Those of you living in the COTU have been largely insulated. He has robbed the hinterlands to feed his supporters in the major centers. Here's news for you. Whole towns have shut down. Previously prosperous communities now have boarded up store fronts. 

The only thing I want to see McGuinty do is exit stage left. I don't particularly care if the door hits him in the @ss on the way out.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

+1. I have told the Hudak camp that I want to see a Harris-style slash and burn--not McGuinty lite.


----------



## cap10subtext (Oct 13, 2005)

i-rui said:


> a big +1.
> 
> the G20 fiasco left a real sour taste in my mouth, and McGuinty should have shown some balls and stood up for civilian rights.
> 
> ...


+1.

I also agree that McG has been tax and spending.

I don't trust a single conservative out there with doing better. Between Ford's hot air and Harper's cutting taxes and increasing spending I'm convinced they're either idiots or just plain selfish.

Someone said this earlier too, I want to see a sane, intelligent centrist in power and some real belt tightening on all fronts equally. Not this slash and burn to please my voters garbage.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Lichen Software said:


> I can't say that much about Hudak in terms of the person or even the skill set. Still getting to know him.
> 
> I do believe that he is in the same position if he wins that Harris was in when he took power. At that time, Bob Ray had tried to spend his way out of a recession with stimulus spending and when he realized that one province doing it would not work he tried some cuts including Ray Days and got royally reamed by the unions. Harris seeing this had no choice in my opinion except slash and burn. He is still being pilloried for it.
> 
> ...


you mean the same position whomever takes over from the federal tories?

And no rob ford made his own financial bed, he didn't inherit a mess.

Anyone who thinks Hudak is going to come in and kill the hst and cut everything that will result in financial prosperity is delusional. But if Hudak gets in, I'll be here in 4 years laughing at you.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

cap10subtext said:


> +1.
> 
> I also agree that McG has been tax and spending.
> 
> ...


unfortunately conservatives are all about this. They whisper sweet nothings into the ears of those who wish big cuts, but they're being duped as well.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

haven't found an official link to this yet, but I saw this posted somewhere putting the liberals at an 11 point lead over hudak according to harris/decima poll

Ontario News Watch


----------



## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

groovetube said:


> haven't found an official link to this yet, but I saw this posted somewhere putting the liberals at an 11 point lead over hudak according to harris/decima poll
> 
> Ontario News Watch


I saw that... there's some concern that this poll is an outlier.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...s-liberals-with-11-point-lead/article2159193/


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

The hope for a tiny Orange wavelet striking Ontario are slim to none--thank goodness. If I thought remotely that a repeat of the Bob Rae fiasco was in the offing, I would even vote Liberal to prevent it. The joy of seeing the federal NDP party's foray into separatism eclipse the Bloc was only amusing because the party essentially has no power. 

Does the Ontario NDP party still have a leader? If so, why don't they ever say anything?


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

yes we sure wouldn't want an ndp government like nova scotia that balances a budget now would we.

Sonal, yes I was looking for more info on the poll, it seemed rather drastic at this point of a change to me.


----------



## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

Macfury said:


> The hope for a tiny Orange wavelet striking Ontario are slim to none--thank goodness. If I thought remotely that a repeat of the Bob Rae fiasco was in the offing, I would even vote Liberal to prevent it. The joy of seeing the federal NDP party's foray into separatism eclipse the Bloc was only amusing because the party essentially has no power.
> 
> Does the Ontario NDP party still have a leader? If so, why don't they ever say anything?


She doesn't have Jack Layton to smile at the people for her.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I did some digging, Sonal. It's a woman named Andrea Horwath. I hope people will benefit from the research I have done on their behalf. No need to call for Indiana Jones on this one.


----------



## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

Macfury said:


> I did some digging, Sonal. It's a woman named Andrea Horwath. I hope people will benefit from the research I have done on their behalf. No need to call for Indiana Jones on this one.


Pfft. I looked that one up a week ago. Apparently, the 'w' is pronounced like a 'v'. 

Still, the ghost of Jack Layton is polling stronger than it has in Ontario for a long time. I don't think it will take out the memory of Bob Rae anytime soon, though.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Any sympathy vote for the Ontario NDP will be coming at the expense of McGuinty, not Hudak. I f all that Hudak does is dismantle the "green energy" economy, he will have done the province a great service.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

not long ago Rae asserted he'd be happy to put his record against Harper's anytime if he wanted. I laughed first, but after thinking about it a little, it kinda puts our federal government into perspective a little.


----------



## kps (May 4, 2003)

groovetube said:


> haven't found an official link to this yet, but I saw this posted somewhere putting the liberals at an 11 point lead over hudak according to harris/decima poll
> 
> Ontario News Watch


Yeah....like when all the polls had Smitherman ahead of Ford? 

McSquinty is out! That recent $10,000 dollar tax credit for hiring foreign workers should be enough to send this pecker packing -- never mind all his past lies and boondoggles.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

kps said:


> Yeah....like when all the polls had Smitherman ahead of Ford?
> 
> McSquinty is out! That recent $10,000 dollar tax credit for hiring foreign workers should be enough to send this pecker packing -- never mind all his past lies and boondoggles.


is that "foreign workers" or recent Ontario residents?

Also, I think you should check Jason Kenny's methods as well. This sort of pandering worked wonders for the federal conservatives and it made me laugh pretty hard after hearing so many conservatives bellowing about how the liberals and their pandering to the immigrants. When I heard this I was just waiting to see conservatives screech about going for the immigrant vote. That would be hypocrisy with a capital H.

And I don't recall smitherman really being ahead of ford. And I don't know that smitherman really had much of a chance anyway.


----------



## kps (May 4, 2003)

groovetube said:


> is that "foreign workers" or recent Ontario residents?


I can't help being a bit dramatic when it comes to my pal McSquinty. LOL

Oh man, Groove....they were practically giving Smitherman the win at one time...


----------



## kps (May 4, 2003)

groovetube said:


> Also, I think you should check Jason Kenny's methods as well. This sort of pandering worked wonders for the federal conservatives and it made me laugh pretty hard after hearing so many conservatives bellowing about how the liberals and their pandering to the immigrants. When I heard this I was just waiting to see conservatives screech about going for the immigrant vote. That would be hypocrisy with a capital H.
> 
> .


I call then equivalent to "Affirmative Action", something I think we have surpassed this day and age.


----------



## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

kps said:


> Oh man, Groove....they were practically giving Smitherman the win at one time...


They were, though in the last few weeks, they were tied in the polls.

In the informal Sonal poll (i.e., talking to whoever I knew) pretty much everyone was going Ford. Clearly, the pollsters were only talking to downtown.

It's kind of a shame that John Tory wasn't running again (minus the whole faith-based schools business). He might have been able to take it.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

kps said:


> I call then equivalent to "Affirmative Action", something I think we have surpassed this day and age.


I'm afraid your pals in Ottawa have also discovered what going after the immigrant vote means, and costs. All the hicks screaming over their beers about how the liberals are letting the immigrants have all our money is becoming a bit of a joke. You've been had.



Sonal said:


> They were, though in the last few weeks, they were tied in the polls.
> 
> In the informal Sonal poll (i.e., talking to whoever I knew) pretty much everyone was going Ford. Clearly, the pollsters were only talking to downtown.
> 
> It's kind of a shame that John Tory wasn't running again (minus the whole faith-based schools business). He might have been able to take it.


That's true, John Tory likely would have trounced McGuinty.


----------



## kps (May 4, 2003)

I've been had by politicians? Now there's a revelation....

Here Groove, have your say on immigration. The feds want to know your thoughts...

Click on the "Questionnaire"

Consultations


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

kps said:


> I've been had by politicians? Now there's a revelation....
> 
> Here Groove, have your say on immigration. The feds want to know your thoughts...
> 
> ...


There's a good outlet for the boy! Stand up and make a difference!


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

kps said:


> I've been had by politicians? Now there's a revelation....
> 
> Here Groove, have your say on immigration. The feds want to know your thoughts...
> 
> ...


your first mistake is falling for the notion that they actually give a crap about what you think in regards to the immigrant issue. Getting elected in number one, you, don't really exist other than to convince you the other guy is worse.

he he.


----------



## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

kps said:


> He introduced the health care premium (not called a tax) some couples pay as much as $1,500.00 a year.
> He closed the emergency rooms in Port Colburne and Fort Erie because there is not enough money and there has been two deaths since because by the time they got to St.Catharines it was to late.


Medical services costs increase along with everything else. So you either pay more or cut services. You basically just showed he should have charged a higher premium. If you are against the health care premium (or equivalent in tax increase) then how can you be surprised if they have to close emergency rooms?


> He doubled the price of most lottery tickets. (Not called a tax).


last time I checked, I don't have to buy lottery tickets.


> He has put a ECO tax on many containers such as paint cans and window washer fluid. Most people still don&#146;t realize it is on your bill. He kept that one real quiet


I don't think it ever made it to my bill. Many stores refused to charge it.


> He has put a disposal tax on all electronics.


Good. We should be responsible for our rampant consumerism. Either we pay a disposal tax, or our municipal taxes go up to pay for proper disposal. This is more fair, and those who can afford more electronics pay for their disposal when they upgrade in a couple of years.


> He has put the disposal tax back on tires


Good. We should pay for it.


> Now don&#146;t forget that all except the health care premium are subject to the GST and PST (taxes on taxes.)
> And now he has passed the HST the largest tax on the province ever, the only other tax in Ontario that ever came close to this in the past was the health care premium.
> He passed this bill even though 76% of the people in Ontario were against it.
> This HST will provide the Province with an additional THREE BILLION dollars a year.


Good. The HST proportionally taxes the rich more. I was in favor of the HST. The province needs the money.

This is hard to believe, but I actually expect to be taxed if I want services, and if I want debt to be paid down. I don't understand people that want tax decreases and then complain when services are cut. Paying down the debt, improving infrastructure, health care, education, etc. cost money. I expect to pay my share for it. I will voice my complaint when I think our government is spending too much on something or something that doesn't benefit me or society in general.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

hayesk said:


> Medical services costs increase along with everything else. So you either pay more or cut services. You basically just showed he should have charged a higher premium. If you are against the health care premium (or equivalent in tax increase) then how can you be surprised if they have to close emergency rooms?
> 
> last time I checked, I don't have to buy lottery tickets.
> 
> ...


+1

I've been saying for years as I watched the lightheaded shriek about taxes while getting upset when the services get cut back.

The problem with the conservatives is they simply have no clue how to balance a checkbook whatsoever, and seem to love racking debt. The only thing they are able to do is slash and burn but it still doesn't prevent them from racking incredible debt because they never understand the balance of spending and revenue, and likely never will.

So as an average citizen, I end up paying more (because eventually that debt needs to be paid after the conservatives get tossed...) for far less services.

Look at toronto and new moron mayor who promised less taxes without cutting services. Idiots everywhere actually bought this crap.


----------



## kps (May 4, 2003)

hayesk said:


> Medical services costs increase along with everything else. So you either pay more or cut services. You basically just showed he should have charged a higher premium. If you are against the health care premium (or equivalent in tax increase) then how can you be surprised if they have to close emergency rooms?
> 
> last time I checked, I don't have to buy lottery tickets.
> 
> ...


Nice selective editing there buckaroo...lol

According to you it must be ok to spend 1 billion on eHealth and get absolutely nothing for it while closing ERs causing deaths. Hmmmm.

Most of us know Lotteries are a tax on the poor, proven fact. So sure, "elites" may don't care because they do not buy, but the poor do.

You agree with the HST because the province needs money? This was the richest province in the country at one time. If it spent wisely and didn't waste it under this idiot, it wouldn't need any more. F******g unbelievable.

I do expect to pay for many of the same things you do, but unlike you, I expect value and proper management and not boondoggles and waste.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

we got nothing for eHealth? Perhaps you need a second look...


----------



## kps (May 4, 2003)

groovetube said:


> +1
> 
> I've been saying for years as I watched the lightheaded shriek about taxes while getting upset when the services get cut back.
> 
> ...


Same ol' Groove....


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

just callin it as I see it


----------



## keebler27 (Jan 5, 2007)

<sigh>, I don't think I've ever been so ticked off at a politician. I'm not saying McGinty is the worst b/c others have screwed up before, but after BS breaking platform crap the last time, this put me over the edge.

Seriously! So my CANADIAN kids will get 2nd hand preference (possibly) by a company b/c they'll get a tax break to hire an immigrant!?!!?!??!! WTF! Then the education BS and it's clear to see he's (rightfully) desperate for votes by going after the immigrant votes and students.

But you know what irritated me more, is watching Andrea Horvath don the muslim head wrap (sorry, don't know the official description) when she announced a $5K tax break for hiring anyone! That is ponying for votes just as pathetically by wearing that!!!! She's a female and it's not like the Muslim faith respects women equally!!!! I couldn't fn' believe it.

CTV Toronto - NDP's Horwath pledges to subsidize job creation - CTV News

Please understand, I'm not a racist in any way, but this is Canada, adapt to our culture and having a politician do that really ticked me off. Everyone liberally says this is how Canada was made blah blah blah, but when the Dutch, Germans, English, Jewish came over, they adapted into our culture.

Anyhoo, I'm sorry if this sidelines the original intention of this thread.

Again, I'm not a racist, but I increasingly find myself defending the Canadian way b/c I feel that it's slipping away.

I think McGinty would be the only politician I would angrily yell at in a heartbeat if I ever saw him in person.

I'd no doubt tell him to go "McGinty" himself.


----------



## keebler27 (Jan 5, 2007)

I'd like to add that I also realize taxes need to increase to pay for services. The money has to come from somewhere (something the US is having a hard time accepting right now) BUT
why should I pay more tax on Hydro when there's a surplus and they sell it to the US for a profit, yet the CDN costs go up??!? Doesn't add up to me.

Let's not even talk about eHealth. There are some people who worked on that who made a pretty penny at the taxpayer's expense. What a joke.


----------



## jmac (Feb 16, 2003)

The liberal party leader in Ontario is a Liar; well documented. No reason to rehash. Let's all kick his deceitful ass out of Queen's Park and bring in a responsible leader who will do as he says.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

And most people I know want neither the taxes or level of so-called service they receive. They expect a reduction in both, because they make better decisions at allocating funds themselves.


----------



## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

Macfury said:


> And most people I know want neither the taxes or level of so-called service they receive. They expect a reduction in both, because they make better decisions at allocating funds themselves.


BS. Most people see "better decisions" as a short term gain in their own bank account rather than a long term improvement in society. That's how Harper was able to buy his first election win - with GST cut rather than an income tax cut planned by the Liberals. A smart, if not underhanded, strategy.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

jmac said:


> The liberal party leader in Ontario is a Liar; well documented. No reason to rehash. Let's all kick his deceitful ass out of Queen's Park and bring in a responsible leader who will do as he says.


oh sure, and who would that be? Certainly wouldn't be lying sack called Hudak eh?

Yeah that'll be so much better. Why can't people read. We know McGuinty is a doofus. It's been said a thousand times. But replacing him with an even bigger moron isn't going to fix anything.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Macfury said:


> And most people I know want neither the taxes or level of so-called service they receive. They expect a reduction in both, because they make better decisions at allocating funds themselves.


total nonsense. Just because you live in a van down by the river doesn't mean everyone else wants healthcare phased out.


----------



## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

kps said:


> Nice selective editing there buckaroo...lol
> 
> According to you it must be ok to spend 1 billion on eHealth and get absolutely nothing for it while closing ERs causing deaths. Hmmmm.
> 
> ...



Absolutely nothing? Lol.

Lotteries are optional - not a tax. Period.

This was the "richest" province due to creative accounting by the PCs before McGuinty and a recession.

Hey, I have no love for McGuinty either; he did nothing about the G20 travesty, he hasn't dismantled the OMB, the health care premium should be integrated into regular income tax.

But to pretend he's so much worse than any other politician because he raised taxes or had wasteful spending is laughable. No government in the history of governments has ran a perfectly efficient government. And he didn't screw up the province's finances like the PCs before him.

But I have absolutely no confidence in Hudak. Floating silly ideas like reducing the price of beer tells me he has no idea what he's doing. He has no platform. His strategy is nothing but fanning the flames of hatred for McGuinty. I don't know who I'm voting for, but it won't be the PCs.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

if we're going to boot a party out of office for wasting our money let's start with the cons in Ottawa re: the 50 million tony clement stole for starters I'm sure there's a hell of a lot more particularly when they're done in 4 years.

oh that's ok because their cons. Right. I forgot. They're the party of mythical tax cuts and reduced government spending...
LOL


----------



## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

groovetube said:


> Just because you live in a van down by the river.


An oldie but a goodie.


----------



## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

Macfury said:


> And most people I know want neither the taxes or level of so-called service they receive. They expect a reduction in both, because they make better decisions at allocating funds themselves.


Do you all meet in Church basements?


----------



## Dr T (May 16, 2009)

Macfury said:


> McGuinty is a proven idiot. I doubt Hudak could do worse.


I live in one of the non-Ontario provinces. We are not blessed with any media attention to Ontario political issues. We do not even know who Ms or Mr McGuinty and Ms or Mr Hudak are.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

mrjimmy said:


> Do you all meet in Church basements?


As busy and productive members of society, we don't have the same free time as "progressives" to meet and kvetch.


----------



## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

Macfury said:


> As busy and productive members of society, we don't have the same free time as "progressives" to meet and kvetch.


Oh, you communicate using telepathy!


----------



## Lichen Software (Jul 23, 2004)

Dr T said:


> I live in one of the non-Ontario provinces. We are not blessed with any media attention to Ontario political issues. We do not even know who Ms or Mr McGuinty and Ms or Mr Hudak are.


Hmm .. You are probably lucky


----------



## kps (May 4, 2003)

hayesk said:


> Absolutely nothing? Lol.
> 
> 
> This was the "richest" province due to creative accounting by the PCs before McGuinty and a recession.


Creative accounting my a**, have you forgot about the years of transfer payments Ontario taxpayers made to the "have not" provinces?



> Hey, I have no love for McGuinty either; he did nothing about the G20 travesty, he hasn't dismantled the OMB, the health care premium should be integrated into regular income tax.
> 
> But to pretend he's so much worse than any other politician because he raised taxes or had wasteful spending is laughable. No government in the history of governments has ran a perfectly efficient government. And he didn't screw up the province's finances like the PCs before him.
> 
> But I have absolutely no confidence in Hudak. Floating silly ideas like reducing the price of beer tells me he has no idea what he's doing. He has no platform. His strategy is nothing but fanning the flames of hatred for McGuinty. I don't know who I'm voting for, but it won't be the PCs.


Hudak may not be the ideal replacement, but I think McGuinty has had his time at the trough and I've had enough of his lies and other shenanigans. Time for him to go.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

kps said:


> Hudak may not be the ideal replacement, but I think McGuinty has had his time at the trough and I've had enough of his lies and other shenanigans. Time for him to go.


Exactly. That boob McGuinty has happily presided over the diminishment of this province--and calls it progress.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

let's make sure we recall this logic when Harper is up for re-election. Somehow, I'm sure this line of logic will suddenly be furiously back pedalled on.


----------



## cap10subtext (Oct 13, 2005)

hayesk said:


> BS. Most people see "better decisions" as a short term gain in their own bank account rather than a long term improvement in society. That's how Harper was able to buy his first election win - with GST cut rather than an income tax cut planned by the Liberals. A smart, if not underhanded, strategy.


Exactly, and who brought in the GST? The PC! So noble of the Con's to lower it 2%. It's just a shell game with the current group of Conservatives blowing hot air around Canada. Look at Ford. Stop the Gravy Train! He gets elected and no one seems to care that he flat out lied that there was the capacity to make the cuts he dreamed of.

I'll bet Hudak's win will have nothing to do with a principled stance, it's only if he can shut his mouth long enough to appear the lesser evil.

Barf.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

cap10subtext said:


> He gets elected and no one seems to care that he flat out lied that there was the capacity to make the cuts he dreamed of.


The capacity, yes. But very difficult to remove the mouths of the entitled form the government teat.


----------



## Aurora (Sep 25, 2001)

You know, reading this thread makes me wonder. All the screaming about various political parties. The truth is that most people are fixed in their opinions and turn themselves inside out to prove that their party is right. The sarcastic ones really get to me. It usually implies a lack of real conviction, just following the party line. I am conservative and I am amazed at how people want to get screwed again by the Libs. all the lying that has been done in the last eight years are forgiven. The Conservatives are out to get us. Harris raped our province. Harris did one thing wrong in my opinion and that was to drive medical people out of Ontario
but he took the deficit that Rae left us and turned it into a surplus. He also reduced taxes. He also did one other thing that people are always bitching about concerning politicos. He said what he wanted to do and he got elected and did those things. Isn't that what we are always complaining about. Politicians that say one thing and do the opposite when elected. Yes, he cut the welfare and guess what, People had to go to work. I agree that Hudak doesn't seem to have the vibrancy that is needed to defeat McGuinty but that doesn't make McGuinty right. He blatently panders to the 905 ethnic community because he knows that therein lies the votes and the hell with the provincial good. 
I think that a lot of posters here are basically greenies and that is good as far as we all want to save the planet but take the blinders off. You have to look at the overall picture. For instance, you can't stop the seal hunt depriving Newfoundlanders of a living and wonder where the cod went. The fact is that seals eat herring and that is food for the cod. That is what I mean by the overall picture. It's like these drives to plant trees to save the planet. I have flown across this country many times and we have millions of trees. so I don't feel the need to contribute money to plant more. 
Windmills; expensive, unreliable power and they are killing birds. But the treehuggers don't mention that.
Well, that's my rant. I don't usually get involved in this type of thread but I just felt the need to express my opinion after reading some of the stuff above.
Flame away.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Oh the sarcastic ones get to you but then you ahead and skewer the libs in the next sentence. 

Welcome to the futility if arguing politics on a forum.

Signed, probably a "greenie"


----------



## Puccasaurus (Dec 28, 2003)

McGuinty's colossal screw up with the G20 looms large in my mind, but I also fear another Harris type government. It's going to be tough making up my mind. I do find all the sudden and seemingly daily Liberal promises sort of funny -- I'm waiting for him to announce that every teacher in the province will be given a nice foot rub by Dalton himself and a free iPad


----------



## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

Alas, for me it's ABC as well.

Way I figure it, my town is in the grip of a conservative cabal called FordCo and the conservatives rule at the federal level. I'm not keen on helping Hudak serve up what Harper referred to as a hat trick; three conservative mandates in three separate levels of gubbmint is about one or two conservative mandates too much, thanks all the same. Can't say I'm excited by Dalton McGuinty, no doubt. But Hudak, his exenophobic comments and his eagerness to sweep in a new con era at the provincial level leave me cold. Very simply, I don't trust the man any more than I trust FordCo to do right by my city.


----------



## tilt (Mar 3, 2005)

Max said:


> Alas, for me it's ABC as well.


Sorry to ask a dumb question, but what's ABC?

Cheers


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

tilt said:


> Sorry to ask a dumb question, but what's ABC?
> 
> Cheers


ABC here in NL stood for Anything But Conservative. Our then premier, Danny Williams, used the phrase when Stephen Harper two elections ago promised to give NL the same deal re royalties on our oil wells as was given to Alberta .... even gave Williams a signed piece of paper with this promise ............ and then Harper broke his promise. So, Williams started an ABC campaign here in NL. 

Not sure where else it has been done, or if that is what it means in ON.

Paix, mon ami.


----------



## kps (May 4, 2003)

tilt said:


> Sorry to ask a dumb question, but what's ABC?
> 
> Cheers


easy as 123....
*




+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## kps (May 4, 2003)

Dr.G. said:


> ABC here in NL stood for Anything But Conservative. Our then premier, Danny Williams, used the phrase when Stephen Harper two elections ago promised to give NL the same deal re royalties on our oil wells as was given to Alberta .... even gave Williams a signed piece of paper with this promise ............ and then Harper broke his promise. So, Williams started an ABC campaign here in NL.
> 
> Not sure where else it has been done, or if that is what it means in ON.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


...you had to jump in and spoil it....


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

kps said:


> ...you had to jump in and spoil it....


Well, it might mean something else in ON.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

*A*ll *B*oneheads (vote) *C*onservative?

har har har.


----------



## tilt (Mar 3, 2005)

Dr.G. said:


> ABC here in NL stood for Anything But Conservative. Our then premier, Danny Williams, used the phrase when Stephen Harper two elections ago promised to give NL the same deal re royalties on our oil wells as was given to Alberta .... even gave Williams a signed piece of paper with this promise ............ and then Harper broke his promise. So, Williams started an ABC campaign here in NL.
> 
> Not sure where else it has been done, or if that is what it means in ON.
> 
> Paix, mon ami.


Oh, OK. Thanks Marc. 



kps said:


> ...you had to jump in and spoil it....


Heheheh, you have to be quicker on the draw. 

Cheers


----------

