# Laminate Flooring Advice Needed - Please Help!



## strendgirl (Oct 18, 2005)

Two months ago, I had my carpets replaced by IKEA Tundra laminate flooring throughout my home -- living room, dining room, bedrooms, and hallway. $4000 later, it seems that I am allergic to the newly installed flooring. It turns out there may be formaldehyde emissions from the flooring that is making me sick, so I am looking for advice as to what to do next.

One suggestion I've heard is to close up all the windows and doors and turn up the heat in the house for a few days (and leave). The heat supposedly gets the formaldehyde fumes to release from the flooring quicker, so when you return and air out the house, the amount of fumes will be less. Has anyone got experience with something like this?

Another suggestion given to me was to coat the floor with 2-3 coats of a water-based sealant. This would reportedly trap the gases under the sealant, or at least force it to release the fumes slower. Has anybody ever sealed their laminate flooring, whether for this purpose or any other? 

Sadly the idea was to replace the carpets to reduce my allergy symptoms, not increase them! Any help is greatly appreciated!

strendgirl


----------



## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

Assuming this is your own house, you might look into an HRV (heat recovering ventilator). It is connected to a forced air furnace and is, sort of like having a window open all the time, without all of the heat getting out (or in, as the case may be).


----------



## jlcinc (Dec 13, 2002)

Try asking your question here 
http://forum.doityourself.com/forumdisplay.php?f=72&daysprune=-1&order=desc&sort=views

It's sort of like the ehmac site but more in line with your problem. A lot of good people try to help.

John


----------



## mr.steevo (Jul 22, 2005)

Hi,

I think if you seal the floor you would have to coat all sides and not just the top. Can you return it?

s.


----------



## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

mr.steevo said:


> Hi,
> 
> I think if you seal the floor you would have to coat all sides and not just the top. Can you return it?
> 
> s.


Anyway, I doubt it could be "sealed". The surface is laminate and it would probably just be ruined. Although I recall IKEA having a guarantee (years ago, anyway) that if you don't like it, you can tear it up and bring it back, it would be one hell of a pain and I suspect that any engineered floor is going to have off-gassing, because they all include particle board.


----------



## strendgirl (Oct 18, 2005)

nxnw said:


> Assuming this is your own house, you might look into an HRV (heat recovering ventilator). It is connected to a forced air furnace and is, sort of like having a window open all the time, without all of the heat getting out (or in, as the case may be).


Thanks, I'll look into this! Hopefully the cost of installing and running the HRV won't up being more than the cost of another round of new floors. I've been running an air filter for the past 3 days, which seems to help slightly, but not enough.


----------



## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

what do women and floor tile have in common? (he he)


----------



## strendgirl (Oct 18, 2005)

nxnw said:


> Anyway, I doubt it could be "sealed". The surface is laminate and it would probably just be ruined. Although I recall IKEA having a guarantee (years ago, anyway) that if you don't like it, you can tear it up and bring it back, it would be one hell of a pain and I suspect that any engineered floor is going to have off-gassing, because they all include particle board.


Yes, I talked to someone at a paint store today and they did not recommend sealing the floor because it would either ruin the floor or just make a big mess. I guess I'll check if IKEA will take back the Tundra flooring, though the material was a minor cost in comparison to the cost of labor to install it! Unfortunately the labor cannot be returned.  

Yes, all laminate would probably have the same problem, though to different degrees depending on the manufacturer. I'm somewhat surprised that googling for additional information on the negative health effects of laminate floors didn't turn up much. I mostly find information on laminate flooring being *beneficial* for those with allergies.


----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

strendgirl said:


> Two months ago, I had my carpets replaced by IKEA Tundra laminate flooring throughout my home -- living room, dining room, bedrooms, and hallway. $4000 later, it seems that I am allergic to the newly installed flooring. It turns out there may be formaldehyde emissions from the flooring that is making me sick, so I am looking for advice as to what to do next.


Unfortunately most manufactured floor materials/coverings gives off formaldehyde. Everything off-gases to some degree.... Not only are you getting sick, but you may be becoming increasingly sensitive.



> One suggestion I've heard is to close up all the windows and doors and turn up the heat in the house for a few days (and leave). The heat supposedly gets the formaldehyde fumes to release from the flooring quicker, so when you return and air out the house, the amount of fumes will be less. Has anyone got experience with something like this?


You may drive off a portion of the chemical, but you will drive much of it into your soft furnishings where it will be released later. Only a surprisingly small portion will be removed by this process.... The reduction in, say parts per minute, might be enough to provide some relief given your level of sensitivity, but then everything else in the place is, er, contaminated and the total chemical output may be very near the same tho' over a longer time. But exposed over a longer time may raise your sesitivity level. Chemicals like this leave on a half life basis - like the old math puzzle: if you half the distance to the goal line each trial, how many does it take to get there? Answer: you never get there! Once you get these chemicals into your house it is very hard to become entirely free of them...



> Another suggestion given to me was to coat the floor with 2-3 coats of a water-based sealant. This would reportedly trap the gases under the sealant, or at least force it to release the fumes slower. Has anybody ever sealed their laminate flooring, whether for this purpose or any other?


The paint will have chemicals of its own... Water based sealer will not bond to the laminate surface - even if you cover every side the sealer will easily chip (heels, pet claws, kids toys...) and release the gas. Besides, the appearance that you paid for will be gone. 



> Sadly the idea was to replace the carpets to reduce my allergy symptoms, not increase them! Any help is greatly appreciated!


Carpet is notorious as source of formaldehyde. You need to get advice on low-allergic-impact decorating materials because this is going to be a ongoing issue for you. In the extreme, you may find that you only feel completely healthy with all natural material.....


----------



## strendgirl (Oct 18, 2005)

rgray said:


> Unfortunately most manufactured floor materials/coverings gives off formaldehyde. Everything off-gases to some degree.... Not only are you getting sick, but you may be becoming increasingly sensitive.


Sadly, I fear this may be the case. I already had my fair share of allergies to begin with, but in the past 2 months I feel they have been dramatically heightened, particularly my food allergies and chemical sensitivities. In terms of pollens and pet dander, however, I don't feel any worse. Have you or someone you known experienced something like this before? I've been scouring the web this week but haven't seen any personal anecdotes from anyone who has experienced sensitivity to laminate flooring. 



rgray said:


> You may drive off a portion of the chemical, but you will drive much of it into your soft furnishings where it will be released later. Only a surprisingly small portion will be removed by this process.... The reduction in, say parts per minute, might be enough to provide some relief given your level of sensitivity, but then everything else in the place is, er, contaminated and the total chemical output may be very near the same tho' over a longer time. But exposed over a longer time may raise your sesitivity level. Chemicals like this leave on a half life basis - like the old math puzzle: if you half the distance to the goal line each trial, how many does it take to get there? Answer: you never get there! Once you get these chemicals into your house it is very hard to become entirely free of them...


Thanks for pointing this out...this is downright scary! 



rgray said:


> Carpet is notorious as source of formaldehyde. You need to get advice on low-allergic-impact decorating materials because this is going to be a ongoing issue for you. In the extreme, you may find that you only feel completely healthy with all natural material.....


I read today that cork flooring might be the way to go for highly sensitive people. Though for my particular situation, I may just sell my house and move. I was already considering moving for other reasons, but this is the last straw. Is there a way I can make things more bearable in the meantime? 

Thanks for your input,
strendgirl


----------



## ErnstNL (Apr 12, 2003)

I wonder if a de-humidifier might help. 
It will dry out the floor (and your house) in a few weeks but the excess moisture/fume loss may cause a few extra wide seams to start showing in the flooring as well as having a dry nose for a few weeks. 
The big question is will the solvents used in the laminate evaporate or will there be emissions for years.

We have replaced all our carpeted main floors with pre-finished oak hardwood. We are planning to replace the bedroom carpets with laminate in the near future. I will try one room at a time just in case. My wife and son are sensitive to certain odors.


----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

strendgirl said:


> I read today that cork flooring might be the way to go for highly sensitive people.


Before putting down any more money, I would try to be damn sure there were no issues. Cork, if you can get it raw might be OK but once it is treated for shelf life, durability, etc., etc., may be just as bad as any other manufactured product.

You need good information.. not a bunch of "I think"s or "I've heard"s.

This sounds to be about 'environmental sensitivity'. There is a world leading research and clinic in Nova Scotia - Environmental Health Centre 



> Though for my particular situation, I may just sell my house and move. I was already considering moving for other reasons, but this is the last straw.


*I urge you to do your research before putting down more money.....*




> Is there a way I can make things more bearable in the meantime?


 Grandma was right - FRESH AIR! Depending on where you live, assuming outside air is clean (no truck/bus route, industry, etc., outside your windows), opening all the windows will probably be your best bet. Yes, I know it is October but you can dress up warm easy enough.. assuming your clothes themselves are not (becoming) an issue.... If you are centrally heated change all the filters. Clean, clean, clean... Also challenge test all cosmetics, cleaners, anything chemical. Your issue might not be the flooring, etc. - could be a serendipitous correlation with whatever other chemical source...


----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

ErnstNL said:


> ......... will there be emissions for years.


Likely! See comments re: half-life, post #9 above.


----------



## miguelsanchez (Feb 1, 2005)

1) Have you been to an allergist to determine to what exactly it is that you are allergic?

2) Try some reading:

http://www.nsrp.bc.ca/whatsnew/feature.cfm?rec_id=1567

http://www.edcmag.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/BNP__Features__Item/0,4120,20560,00.html

http://www.watoxics.org/redirect/PCTE_BUILD.aspx?fromMenu=0&pos=&name=PCTE_BUILD

I have heard good things about bamboo flooring, and it is made from a sustainable resource.

I hope this helps.

Miguel


----------



## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

rgray said:


> Grandma was right - FRESH AIR! ... Yes, I know it is October but you can dress up warm easy enough.. assuming your clothes themselves are not (becoming) an issue...


That's exactly what the HRV is for. It brings in fresh air from outside, and preheats it by extracting the heat from the stale air that is being exhausted.

They are not cheap, but probably cheaper than a new floor and much cheaper than selling and moving.

If opening up some windows to ventilate the house makes you feel better (if colder) the HRV may be a very good investment. If the symptoms you are having coincided with the installation of the flooring, and no other changes, your suspicion that you are being bothered by the off gassing seems reasonable.


----------



## gastonbuffet (Sep 23, 2004)

Ask the installers what kind of adhesive they used, maybe it was a cheap and highly toxic one. (which will evaporate relatively soon , specially if you turned the heat on recently). I'm putting my chips on the adhesive as oppose to the laminate.


----------



## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

These floors are not glued down, although the planks are glued to each other with white glue.

Laminate floor is, however, stinking with adhesive, mostly to bind the particle board backing. Particle board is notorious for off-gassing.


----------



## ErnstNL (Apr 12, 2003)

The floor is not glued together either, it's "click-Lock"

Ikea Tundra Flooring Specs.

There could have been a foam underlay maybe?


----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

nxnw said:


> That's exactly what the HRV is for. It brings in fresh air from outside, and preheats it by extracting the heat from the stale air that is being exhausted.


Indeed. I am very well aware of what an HRV does. However, they also use the existing duct work, or dust work it might as well be called... Anything (chemicals off gased elsewhere) in the dust that has accumulated will also be circulated - you might not want to do this unless your ducts are spotless (which I can just about guarantee they are not). Also the unit itself may cause problems unless it is new-clean and contains no parts not made of metal (ie plastic parts which will of course themselves off-gas)... The exercise here is to get clean - *NOT* adding more new stuff to the system...


----------



## andreww (Nov 20, 2002)

I really think that you may be jumping to conclusions in blaming the floor for your heightened allergy. Having done my own home in Tundra flooring, I know how much dust and crap is under the carpet. Sweeping would create a cloud of (plaster, drywall, underpad, and who knows what else) dust. I would be far more likely to assume that this stuff has got into your furniture and bedding, and is in direct contact with your skin and face.


----------



## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

While I am not denying that you are ailing from something environmental, would you happen to be a white female, 30+, university-educated and upper middle class (upbringing at least)?

There is a pattern of chemical sensitivity that pervades this demographic and often is attributed to psychological, rather than medical syndrome. Some would compare this to the nebulous fibromyalgia that women in this demographic also have - sort of a Baron Munchausen/hypochondrial psychological thing.

The house of the Microsoft Canada president here in Oakville went on the market because his wife couldn't stand the supposed fumes from the $10 million renovation to their Lakeshore mansion. They only lived there 2 weeks.


----------



## strendgirl (Oct 18, 2005)

rgray said:


> This sounds to be about 'environmental sensitivity'. There is a world leading research and clinic in Nova Scotia - Environmental Health Centre


Thanks for the link...there's a lot of good stuff there, and referenced from there.



rgray said:


> Grandma was right - FRESH AIR! Depending on where you live, assuming outside air is clean (no truck/bus route, industry, etc., outside your windows), opening all the windows will probably be your best bet. Yes, I know it is October but you can dress up warm easy enough.. assuming your clothes themselves are not (becoming) an issue.... If you are centrally heated change all the filters. Clean, clean, clean... Also challenge test all cosmetics, cleaners, anything chemical. Your issue might not be the flooring, etc. - could be a serendipitous correlation with whatever other chemical source...


I've been leaving an air filter running and leaving the windows open the last few days. It seems that when I leave the air filter on with the windows *closed*, it actually gets kind of stuffy inside. Is that normal? It seems that the eczema worsens the more time I spend in the house, so I've been trying to sleep at friends' houses the last few days.

I haven't done chemical challenge tests, but my homeopathic doctor does "muscle testing", which is a form of Applied Kinesiology I guess. She has found several foods and household items (soaps, hand lotions) to be affecting my hands. This week I brought in a leftover plank of the laminate and she said that had the biggest effect on my eczema and on my lungs. Is it possible to get tested for formaldehyde allergy specifically?


----------



## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

rgray said:


> Indeed. I am very well aware of what an HRV does. However, they also use the existing duct work, or dust work it might as well be called... Anything (chemicals off gased elsewhere) in the dust that has accumulated will also be circulated - you might not want to do this unless your ducts are spotless (which I can just about guarantee they are not). Also the unit itself may cause problems unless it is new-clean and contains no parts not made of metal (ie plastic parts which will of course themselves off-gas)... The exercise here is to get clean - *NOT* adding more new stuff to the system...


I don't think you understand HRVs. Are you suggesting she not use her furnace, because her ducts may be dusty, or that her dusty ducts won't be deposit some dust in the air unless she gets an HRV?

An HRV exhausts stale air and brings in fresh air. There is nothing negative about that, no matter how dusty ones ducts may be.


----------



## strendgirl (Oct 18, 2005)

andreww said:


> I really think that you may be jumping to conclusions in blaming the floor for your heightened allergy. Having done my own home in Tundra flooring, I know how much dust and crap is under the carpet. Sweeping would create a cloud of (plaster, drywall, underpad, and who knows what else) dust. I would be far more likely to assume that this stuff has got into your furniture and bedding, and is in direct contact with your skin and face.


Thanks...I could definitely spend more time cleaning up around the house. As far as the furniture and bedding is concerned, I moved it all outside before the contractors installed the floors, though that doesn't mean they weren't affected by dust. I'll try cleaning some more.


----------



## strendgirl (Oct 18, 2005)

gmark2000 said:


> While I am not denying that you are ailing from something environmental, would you happen to be a white female, 30+, university-educated and upper middle class (upbringing at least)?
> 
> There is a pattern of chemical sensitivity that pervades this demographic and often is attributed to psychological, rather than medical syndrome. Some would compare this to the nebulous fibromyalgia that women in this demographic also have - sort of a Baron Munchausen/hypochondrial psychological thing.


Heh, well 3 out of 5 ain't bad.  I'm Asian and under 30, but you got the female, university-educated, and upper middle class upbringing part right. You forgot the first-born child part.  I've heard of this type of thing (allergies, asthma, chemical sensitivity, sinus problems, eczema) affecting "my" demographic. I can't explain it...


----------



## Macabout (Jul 10, 2001)

*just came across this after reading this thread, off Digital Home Canada*

http://www.yourhealthyhome.ca/

Healthy Home website helps you breathe easier 
Monday, 17 October 2005
Most people assume that poor air quality is an outdoor problem but most homeowners spend up to 90 percent of our time indoors, therefore air quality in your home is very important. Keeping your home clean is important but excessive use of cleaning products can be dangerous.

Digital Home Canada visted the Ontario Lung Associations Healthy home website and came away impressed. The Healthy Home website is a room-by-room guide that will help you identify and evaluate common indoor environmental problems that may be affecting your home and your health. It also takes a look at our energy consumption, which, through the generation of power from fossil fuels effects our outdoor air. Finally the site provides you with simple and doable positive actions to help solve these problems.

Among the sites recommendations:

Fresh is Fashionable - Indoor contaminants can build up and get trapped indoors because homes are more air-tight and energy-efficient these days. The recommendtion is to open windows when possible and let in the fresh air. The Lung Association recommends getting to the source of the odor and removing it, rather than adding sprays or other fragrances to blur any unpleasant odors.

Go Natural - everything from hairspray to furniture polish contain a variety of potentially harmful chemicals. "Vinegar, baking soda and vegetable oil are all great non-toxic alternatives that work well on appliances and wood finishes and safe to breathe.

Use Low Emission materials - The Lung Association also recommends low emission carpeting, drapery, cushions and adhesives. "Try area rugs instead of wall-to-wall carpeting and easy-to-wash slip covers for a chic, contemporary look," says Ellie Cholette, a feature designer on The Decorating Challenge. "Instead of heavy curtains, why not try low-maintenance shutters? And there are great non-toxic paints I'm using these days that I would highly recommend."

Clean appliances - Humidifiers, dehumidifiers and air conditioners offer ideal breeding grounds for dangerous micro-organisms that can get blown throughout the house. Check these, plus refrigerator drip pans often for a build up of contaminants.

There are plenty of more recommendations at http://www.yourhealthyhome.ca/


----------



## Casiopia (Mar 9, 2009)

*laminate floor allergies*

I have had a bad experience after installing laminate floors as well. Like you, when I googled "laminate floor allergies," all of the hits talked about installing laminate floors to AVOID allergic reactions. I have had terrible rhinitis (sneezing fits, itchiness, post-nasal drip, congestion) since August '08 when we installed engineered wood floors in 3 bedrooms of our house. I ran a serum IgE inhalants test after the first few months and found that, yes, I have a severe dust mite allergy. I have gone to extreme measures to curtail the allergic symptoms due to dust mite exposure (i.e. mattress and pillow encasements, washing bed linens weekly in boiling water, nasal irrigation daily, allergy shots ($$$)). My doctor recommended I buy a new mattress and clean the air ducts in my house. An Oreck air purifier made a tremendous difference temporarily but recently I backslid. The rhinitis returned and this time my nose was infected. 

While I blamed all of my symptoms on dust mites, keep in mind that the dust mite allergy was present long before I installed the floors. I only thought to run the test after all these symptoms surfaced. If installing the floors just stirred up a bunch of dust, you would think that would settle or be purified after at least a few months. At this point, I am sleeping in a different room of the house on an air mattress (dust mite free) that has tile floors and I've improved a lot. I also was given a local antibiotic for the infection. Whether the floor itself is contributing to my allergies remains to be seen, but I'm very suspicious. After reading the symptoms of formaldehyde exposure, I think that the floors together with the dust mites may explain my symptoms for the last 7 months. You may want to run some tests to figure out what else may be causing your allergic symptoms. I would also do an experiment where you monitor your symptoms when you stay at someone else's house and after you improve (if you do) go back to your house and see if the symptoms return. 

If it turns out that the floors are off-gasing and making my health so poor right now, I'm definitely taking them out of my bedroom. I wouldn't try to cover it with the fear that it would just cost more money and wouldn't work anyway. Despite the money we invest in the floors, it's not worth trading our health and peace of mind. 

Thanks for your post. I was also relieved to see that someone else had an experience like this and it prompted me to learn more about formaldehyde off-gasing.


----------



## onecanary (May 29, 2009)

*Currently restoring after flooding safer products*

As the title says I'm going through restoration after a flood (of clean water that ruined all flooring in my house). And I have a severe case of MCS which the Dr refers to as "exquisite sensitivity", which does not mean anything nice or good!! -it means breathe certain chemicals in my direction and I'm done for. BUT I have been fortunate enough to have been tested and to know which chemicals cause grief, and what products have them in. Here's today's experience with laminate flooring. It is the least problematic of what I can afford. 
It was delivered this morning (I'm obviously not living in the house right now). As I opened the front door, not even stepping in, I was overwhelmed with "that" odor. My skin turned bright red and I was nauseated. "DRAT" I thought. I have done my homework, I've been sleeping with the sample piece of laminate and doing just fine. I've already gone up to the Green Store to buy safer products to use for all of the construction needs, AFM Safecoat Safe Seal, Hard Seal, 3 in 1 Adhesive, Caulk, paint, etc. I've painted the sample of vinyl with Safecoat Safe Seal (WOW !!! IT WORKS!!!), I’ve met with the restoration contractor and discussed this, that and the other. I've made arrangements for them to seal the baseboards at their shop, to paint the vinyl here at the house and done everything I know to do. Yet here was that unmistakable problematic odor. 
Here's the solution, which was so quick to fix. There is something I didn't know about called a transitional strip that is used between the laminate and the flooring that is next to it (tile, vinyl, carpet--even safe ones). That transitional strip is a think piece of wood or "wood-like" material and it HAS to be sealed as well. Without those transition strips being sealed, you've got the chems offgassing and will have difficulty figuring out where the problem comes from. The contractor didn't know without my help that it could be a problem and I didn't know it could be because I didn't even know what it was. So mystery solved. A quick call to the crew and they had me remove them from the house. They'll paint them at the shop. I've taken oxygen, aired the house, etc etc etc and we're good to go. I will suffer a little because of the inadvertent exposure, but now we know and can avoid the disaster the poor OP had experienced. My guess is that something as simple as the TS were the real problem and not the laminate proper. 
Although the OP wrote her query 4 years ago, and no longer needs the information, safe housing at any time and especially after a disaster, is enough of an issue for those of us who are ill, that it can destroy all progress towards wellness that we've made. So I decided to tell about the Transitional strips. And I have to tell you I can't recommend AFM's products highly enough. They are amazing. Talk about giving me a more normal life. 
I know a LOT about managing life with MCS to lead as normal a life as possible. Anyone who wants to can contact me.”


----------



## spencermoseley (Dec 30, 2016)

It is very old post but useful. I was looking for it. Thanks

Crestview Floors | Ceramic, Laminate & Hardwood flooring Calgary, Alberta


----------



## ThomasWinfrey (Jan 31, 2017)

I was looking for suggestion. Finally I found it here.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

ThomasWinfrey said:


> I was looking for suggestion. Finally I found it here.



Hmmm… I dare say a lot of the info here is now quite out of date and possibly incorrect so you may want to do some more further searching on the 'net for more recent info.

Just saying…


----------

