# Buying from MacMall, or Apple's US Online Store?



## Uberman5000 (Aug 17, 2008)

I, and my brother, are in the market for a new MacBook Pro, and we are attempting to get one as cheap as we can get away with. *MacMall* apparently offers MacBooks at something of a lower price since they buy them in bulk, but I'm not sure they can ship to Canada, and I've heard various horror stories about MacMall.

Another option is to buy from Apple's US-based online store. Since the Canadian dollar is doing so well, buying something in US dollars would actually allow us to get it much cheaper... that is assuming we're allowed to buy from the US store without paying extra for some sort of outrageous shipping fee. We have some contacts in the States we could send to, but that might also be a few too many hoops to jump through.

Any thoughts? What other options are available to me?


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## Tech Elementz (Mar 15, 2011)

Uberman5000 said:


> I, and my brother, are in the market for a new MacBook Pro, and we are attempting to get one as cheap as we can get away with. MacMall apparently offers MacBooks at something of a lower price since they buy them in bulk, but I'm not sure they can ship to Canada, and I've heard various horror stories about MacMall.
> 
> Another option is to buy from Apple's US-based online store. Since the Canadian dollar is doing so well, buying something in US dollars would actually allow us to get it much cheaper... that is assuming we're allowed to buy from the US store without paying extra for some sort of outrageous shipping fee. We have some contacts in the States we could send to, but that might also be a few too many hoops to jump through.
> 
> Any thoughts? What other options are available to me?


Canadian & U.S. have the same pricing for Macs... The only difference is any S&H fees, etc...


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

You can't buy from the U.S. Apple Online Store (billing and shipping to the U.S. only).


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

Tech Elementz said:


> Canadian & U.S. has the same pricing for Macs... The only difference is any S&H fees, etc...


Same nominal pricing, but the C$ is worth almost 1.06 USD, so the poster has a point, though 1.06 exchange rate actually means something closer to 1.03 for us mere mortals.

However, the Apple US store will not ship to Canada, so the only options are to go to a physical store in the US or do it through the US friends or some kind of third-party service.

Don't know about MacMall. Might be worth checking if they ship to Canada. Note that if you do find a reseller that ships cross-border, you will not escape the sales taxes.


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## Uberman5000 (Aug 17, 2008)

Tech Elementz said:


> Canadian & U.S. have the same pricing for Macs... The only difference is any S&H fees, etc...


The US Apple Store charges $1800 for the 15" MacBook Pro I have my eye on, and presumably it charges in US dollars. The same MBP costs $1850 on the Canadian store, presumably in Canadian dollars.

Since the Canadian dollar is worth more than the US dollar at the moment, the $1800 on the US store converts to about $1704 on the current exchange rate of $1.05USD per $1.00CAD. That's savings of nearly $150, and if I can get away with reasonable shipping and taxes, that's significant savings to think of.

MacMall charges $1693.95 for that same MacBook as well, and assuming its prices are USD as well, that would be $1603.75CAD. That's nearly $250 off the Canadian Apple Store, and these are savings I must take into account, and see if the difficulty in taking advantage of them isn't really worth it.

I don't want to buy locally, because my province has a 15% sales tax, one of the highest in the country. If I can get away with lower federal taxes by buying it online, that would be a marked improvement.

So it doesn't seem as simple as "The Macs have the same pricing in the US and Canada" because there are a lot of options available to me. 



iMatt said:


> Don't know about MacMall. Might be worth checking if they ship to Canada. Note that if you do find a reseller that ships cross-border, you will not escape the sales taxes.


The federal tax rate is probably much better than my 15% provincial tax rate, if I was buying locally. I wish I could find the receipt for the last MacBook I bought from the Canadian Apple Store, to see what it charged for taxes, but I annoyingly can't find it.

Has anyone here ever bought from MacMall? On the one hand, people tell me I'll get the best possible Mac deals from them, but on the other, a lot of people tell me they're a nightmare to deal with from a customer service standpoint.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

From MacMall:

_For international addresses or APO/FPO zip codes you must place your order by phone at 310-354-5600 or (800) 622-6255 in the US.If you need to specify an alternate shipping method or some other type of special handling for your order, please call your Account Executive at (800) 622-6255 to place the order._


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2011)

Buying from the US you won't avoid the local taxes, you'll have to pay them to get it across the border -- or at least some of them (unless you go physically and then bring it across without declaring it which I don't condone). Also depending on the type of shipping you'll also have to pay a brokerages fee. And don't forget to take into account that you pay a fee to convert CDN into USD which will also shave the savings off of the top. Also depending on who clears the package you may have to actually pay duty on it as well ... the boxes say "designed in california" but technically they are not manufactured there and therefore not exempt from duty. I've seen it go both ways on them in the past. Lastly if it arrives DOA and you have to return it you've lost out on any potential savings at that point, not to mention turn-around time, etc.

This has been discussed here before many times ... all the same old arguments. Probably worthwhile for the OP to search for those threads and read all the arguments before you make a decision.


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## Uberman5000 (Aug 17, 2008)

Lars said:


> From MacMall:
> 
> _For international addresses or APO/FPO zip codes you must place your order by phone at 310-354-5600 or (800) 622-6255 in the US.If you need to specify an alternate shipping method or some other type of special handling for your order, please call your Account Executive at (800) 622-6255 to place the order._


Oh, damn and blast.

I hope I won't have to resort to eBay, I'm never a big fan of that. I've got a Stateside contact that's coming up here sometime later in the summer, but I don't know if I'll have the funds together before he comes to visit, and I don't know how much of an imposition it would be for him to take it across the border. Oh, what a chore, and possibly having to ask him to do it _twice_ for my brother's MacBook as well! XX)

He may have his own contacts, though, or won't try and bother jumping through all these hoops.


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

Uberman5000 said:


> The federal tax rate is probably much better than my 15% provincial tax rate, if I was buying locally. I wish I could find the receipt for the last MacBook I bought from the Canadian Apple Store, to see what it charged for taxes, but I annoyingly can't find it.


I guarantee you got charged both GST + PST. 

I've ordered camera gear from B&H before, with excellent shipping service to Canada, and they have a full Mac lineup. 

For reference, a stock 15" MBP comes to $1763 USD using the cheapest shipping option (brokerage included!) to a non-HST province. Your credit card will not give you 1.06, probably closer to 1.03, so that works out to about $1710, give or take a few bucks. 

B&H Photo Video Digital Cameras, Photography, Camcorders


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## Uberman5000 (Aug 17, 2008)

iMatt said:


> For reference, a stock 15" MBP comes to $1763 USD using the cheapest shipping option (brokerage included!) to a non-HST province. Your credit card will not give you 1.06, probably closer to 1.03, so that works out to about $1710, give or take a few bucks.
> 
> B&H Photo Video Digital Cameras, Photography, Camcorders


I tried doing checkout on that item from that site, and I got a big red *"SORRY! We don't ship there!"* message, so that's probably a dead end as well. Do you mean shipping to an American address that includes the brokerage if it's then being taken across the border? Or do I need to ship it to a different province that doesn't have HST?

I need to see when I can get in touch with my Stateside contact, to see if that makes B&H a more feasible option. Annoyingly, the sale of my old MacBook would make up part of the funds for buying the new one, which means I would have to sell it before I can get my new one, which could take weeks while I wait for my contact to come visit. How tiresome.


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## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

Uberman5000 said:


> I tried doing checkout on that item from that site, and I got a big red *"SORRY! We don't ship there!"* message, so that's probably a dead end as well. Do you mean shipping to an American address that includes the brokerage if it's then being taken across the border? Or do I need to ship it to a different province that doesn't have HST?
> 
> I need to see when I can get in touch with my Stateside contact, to see if that makes B&H a more feasible option. Annoyingly, the sale of my old MacBook would make up part of the funds for buying the new one, which means I would have to sell it before I can get my new one, which could take weeks while I wait for my contact to come visit. How tiresome.


I just tried putting a MBP from B&H in my shopping cart and checking out as if I lived in Nova Scotia, using Purolator, and there were no issues - it shows the 15% HST ($261.11) in the total, plus a shipping fee of $27.22, for a total of $1968.71 USD, which translates to approximately $1911 Cdn, vs $2126.35 including taxes from the Apple Store in Canada. Granted, I didn't go any further with B&H, but unless you live in some oddball spot that Purolator doesn't serve, I don't see the issue. However, as you can see, you cannot avoid the HST. B&H, like several big US online retailers (Newegg.ca, Lands End, LL Bean etc.) include the HST at check out _because they have Canadian tax numbers_. This is actually very helpful, because since the tax is already calculated and paid, there is NO brokerage fee. Brokerage, as many of us have discovered the hard way, can be a nasty surprise, particularly with UPS.

I have dealt with MacMall when living in the US and they were great - and I also ordered some software from them after I moved back to Canada 4 years ago. One package (Adobe CS) came through duty-free and tax free (!!) (NOT via UPS, needless to say!) and the other (Adobe Contribute) had enough duty and taxes piled on that I refused delivery on it. MacMall was very understanding. However, they don't appear to have a Canadian tax number, so brokerage will likely be an issue.

However, my suggestion would be to avoid this whole mess entirely and order a refurbed MBP for $1599. Refurbished MacBook Pro 2.0GHz quad-core Intel i7 - Apple Store (Canada) - that's cheaper than any of the US options. $1838 CDN after taxes to Nova Scotia. No shipping or brokerage fees. 

Whatever you do, don't try to smuggle a laptop or ask someone else to smuggle a laptop for you, across the border. While it's quite possible you might not be caught, the penalties if caught simply aren't worth the few hundred you might save.


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## Tech Elementz (Mar 15, 2011)

Paddy said:


> However, my suggestion would be to avoid this whole mess entirely and order a refurbed MBP for $1599. Refurbished MacBook Pro 2.0GHz quad-core Intel i7 - Apple Store (Canada) - that's cheaper than any of the US options. $1838 CDN after taxes to Nova Scotia. No shipping or brokerage fees.
> 
> Whatever you do, don't try to smuggle a laptop or ask someone else to smuggle a laptop for you, across the border. While it's quite possible you might not be caught, the penalties if caught simply aren't worth the few hundred you might save.


Well said... +1


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

Couple of things. When the Official exchange rate is 1.057 (Bank of Canada as of today), the Bank consumer exchange rate is 1.029 (TD Bank as of today) and the credit card conversion rate is going to be 1.004 after their 2.5% foreign exchange 'commission'

So don't get excited about 'making' $100 on the exchange when buying in US dollars, a 6 percent spread will get eaten up by bank charges.

As noted, you will be charged HST or PST plus GST when the goods enter Canada, regardless whether you have paid any US state or county taxes on it or not. You may also get charged between $30 and $60 in customs brokerage handling fees and advancement fees by the courier or broker, plus HST/GST on that amount.

Buying from MacMall, you give up one very important perk -- Apple lets you return products within 14 days if they are DOA, a lemon, or if the price drops. I saved over $300 on an iMac purchased from Apple when the price fell a week later. Apple will *not* do a direct exchange on a MacMall purchased item. They will tell you to deal with MacMall, or enter the machine in the warranty service queue.


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## maximusbibicus (Feb 25, 2002)

CanadaRAM said:


> Couple of things. When the Official exchange rate is 1.057 (Bank of Canada as of today), the Bank consumer exchange rate is 1.029 (TD Bank as of today) and the credit card conversion rate is going to be 1.004 after their 2.5% foreign exchange 'commission'
> 
> So don't get excited about 'making' $100 on the exchange when buying in US dollars, a 6 percent spread will get eaten up by bank charges.
> 
> ...


Well said.

I agree that refurb store should be the way to go. So many hassles to save a minimal amount of money, when all is said and done. If saving $100 or so, landed, is such a big deal, maybe you shouldn't be buying the laptop.


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## Uberman5000 (Aug 17, 2008)

Paddy said:


> However, my suggestion would be to avoid this whole mess entirely and order a refurbed MBP for $1599. Refurbished MacBook Pro 2.0GHz quad-core Intel i7 - Apple Store (Canada) - that's cheaper than any of the US options. $1838 CDN after taxes to Nova Scotia. No shipping or brokerage fees.


Oh right, forgot about refurbished. I always seem to, for some reason. How stringent is Apple's refurbished policy? It's not like I'll get a laptop with a chewed-up box, making a funny noise, or with a big scratch on the lid?

Annoyingly, there only seems to be one of the particular model I'm after. I expect it will be gone weeks before I've saved up enough for it.


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## crawford (Oct 8, 2005)

I think that the consensus around here is that buying a refurb from Apple is as good as buying new, assuming you're ok with a plain brown box instead of a glossy one from the Apple Store. I have bought two refurbs and they've been indistinguishable from new. Same warranty, too.

One of them was better than new, as it had double the amount of RAM as I had ordered (and that's been the experience of a few around here, too).


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

Uberman5000 said:


> Oh right, forgot about refurbished. I always seem to, for some reason. How stringent is Apple's refurbished policy? It's not like I'll get a laptop with a chewed-up box, making a funny noise, or with a big scratch on the lid?
> 
> Annoyingly, there only seems to be one of the particular model I'm after. I expect it will be gone weeks before I've saved up enough for it.


Nope, I've purchased several items in the past year the latest being a Mac Mini server last week when they got prices the same between Can and US $. The item appeared to be brand new just in a plain white box as did everything else I bought. Full warranty and support too.

One thing I forgot to check, do refurbs qualify for OS upgrades? I bought the Mini the day they released Lion.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

All the Macs I have bought over the last 23 years -- with only one exception -- have been refurbs. Every single one was a) like new in appearance and b) flawless in operation.

Buy with confidence.


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## Uberman5000 (Aug 17, 2008)

Niteshooter said:


> One thing I forgot to check, do refurbs qualify for OS upgrades? I bought the Mini the day they released Lion.


I'm not sure, but it doesn't really matter from my end since I bought the Lion upgrade from the App Store when it came out, so I can presumably upgrade the information to my new machine without much toil.

By the by, a user named MacDoc has offered me some pretty tantalizing deals on the Mac I'm looking for. There's been talk about him on these forums here and there, is he pretty legit?


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## Uberman5000 (Aug 17, 2008)

If I'll be honest, eBay is becoming an increasingly appealing option. There's a lot of good deals out there leading up to back-to-school, but I also know there's a lot of trap doors that could spring open if I go that route. I'm less likely to be charged taxes, as well, if it's a private sale. What are some things I ought to look out for, if I go this route?


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## Guest (Jul 26, 2011)

Uberman5000 said:


> I'm not sure, but it doesn't really matter from my end since I bought the Lion upgrade from the App Store when it came out, so I can presumably upgrade the information to my new machine without much toil.
> 
> By the by, a user named MacDoc has offered me some pretty tantalizing deals on the Mac I'm looking for. There's been talk about him on these forums here and there, is he pretty legit?


Lots of us have bought and continue to buy from MacDoc, he's totally legit, no worries there.


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## Guest (Jul 26, 2011)

Uberman5000 said:


> If I'll be honest, eBay is becoming an increasingly appealing option. There's a lot of good deals out there leading up to back-to-school, but I also know there's a lot of trap doors that could spring open if I go that route. I'm less likely to be charged taxes, as well, if it's a private sale. What are some things I ought to look out for, if I go this route?


Buying stolen property, broken machines (that you won't be able to get fixed under warranty), not as advertised, grey market products that may or may not be valid for warranty and last but not least not even getting what you pay for at all. If you're seriously considering eBay for that kind of purchase I would think again.


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## jhuynh (Mar 21, 2011)

I can verify that the refurb's do qualify for the free lion update. You have to go to Apple - OS X Lion and Lion Server - Up to Date Program


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## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

mguertin said:


> Buying stolen property, broken machines (that you won't be able to get fixed under warranty), not as advertised, grey market products that may or may not be valid for warranty and last but not least not even getting what you pay for at all. If you're seriously considering eBay for that kind of purchase I would think again.


+1!!

Not only that, but just how do you intend to get it to your door? Most of the Macs on eBay are in the US. You will have to ship - which can be expensive - and depending on the seller, and how he/she fills out the customs forms, you may end up paying brokerage and taxes anyway. Lying on a customs form, if they open the box, won't get you anywhere either. You cannot count on customs not opening the package.

I bought one Mac (a G5) and one printer on eBay - but years ago. Now? Not a chance. I'd much rather pay a little more and get to inspect what I'm buying when buying used. Try Kijiji or Craigslist. But do realize that you can still easily get a lemon (not all problems are apparent on brief inspection) and you can still get completely ripped off, with absolutely no recourse. Also, you'll find that prices on Kijiji and Craigslist aren't all that wonderful - people know what their Macs are worth and tend to ask that. Unless they're stolen, of course. Another option would be to watch the classifieds here at ehMac. 

But, if you want the current model, your best bet is still the refurb store. And further, I'd be extremely suspicious of any current model MBP on Kijiji or Craigslist - or eBay. How many people are really going to go out and buy a current model and then turn around and sell it - particularly for any less than what you'd pay for a refurb? Yes, they may have a good "story" as to why - but thieves are often good liars too.


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## bgps (Sep 18, 2006)

Paddy said:


> +1!!
> 
> Not only that, but just how do you intend to get it to your door? Most of the Macs on eBay are in the US. You will have to ship - which can be expensive - and depending on the seller, and how he/she fills out the customs forms, you may end up paying brokerage and taxes anyway. Lying on a customs form, if they open the box, won't get you anywhere either. You cannot count on customs not opening the package.
> 
> ...



Very much agree! I have purchased from the refurb store several times, and have recommended it to others. Always been very happy with the refurb store. My opinion it's the best place to buy a Mac (unless you want to buy new).


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## Tech Elementz (Mar 15, 2011)

bgps said:


> Very much agree! I have purchased from the refurb store several times, and have recommended it to others. Always been very happy with the refurb store. My opinion it's the best place to buy a Mac (unless you want to buy new).


If your new to the Mac world, buying new is always recommended... At least from my perspective.... LIke I did....


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

Tech Elementz said:


> If your new to the Mac world, buying new is always recommended... At least from my perspective.... LIke I did....


Refurb is at least as good as new.

Only two things are missing: BTO options and a "nice" box.


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## Tech Elementz (Mar 15, 2011)

iMatt said:


> Refurb is at least as good as new.
> 
> Only two things are missing: BTO options and a "nice" box.


You also forgot that you can't buy refurb in the store.... Only Online... I bought my iMac in the store, which is prefered....However, refurbs from Apple are great...


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

Tech Elementz said:


> You also forgot that you can't buy refurb in the store.... Only Online... I bought my iMac in the store, which is prefered....However, refurbs from Apple are great...


True, but in the store you also have no BTO options, not even a different keyboard than whatever's in the default box.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

not exactly true. apple stocks some BTO options in their retail stores, and plenty of resellers stock popular BTO options as well.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

Uberman5000 said:


> I'm not sure, but it doesn't really matter from my end since I bought the Lion upgrade from the App Store when it came out, so I can presumably upgrade the information to my new machine without much toil.
> 
> By the by, a user named MacDoc has offered me some pretty tantalizing deals on the Mac I'm looking for. There's been talk about him on these forums here and there, is he pretty legit?


ah yes the good old macdoc "peddling" private message. i answered a question one day in a macbook pro vs mac pro thread and he got me confused with the original poster....sent me a PM about what i should do re: "my" computers and offered to take "my" old machine as a trade in. 

:lmao::lmao:


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

broad said:


> not exactly true. apple stocks some BTO options in their retail stores, and plenty of resellers stock popular BTO options as well.


Good to know. Last time I helped a friend choose a Mac, he wanted a full-size keyboard instead of the stock one (sans numeric keypad). The only in-store option was to spend an extra $49 and walk out with two keyboards.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

not too sure about whether you would be able to get a different keyboard, but they often do things like upgraded RAM, matte screens for laptops etc. 

guy i know walked into an apple store the other day and walked out with an 11" air with 4GB of RAM and a 256GB hdd....

ps-if your buddy had spent the $49 he probably could have sold the brand new wireless kbrd for $60 and profited enough to buy a 6 pack


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

broad said:


> not too sure about whether you would be able to get a different keyboard, but they often do things like upgraded RAM, matte screens for laptops etc.
> 
> guy i know walked into an apple store the other day and walked out with an 11" air with 4GB of RAM and a 256GB hdd....
> 
> ps-if your buddy had spent the $49 he probably could have sold the brand new wireless kbrd for $60 and profited enough to buy a 6 pack


Maybe, but of course there's work involved in completing that sale. If it takes an hour to make a $10-15 profit, it isn't really worth it for many people. I know buying and selling is a hobby for some people, and it can even be a living if you do enough of it, but for most of us it's just an extra hassle.

Anyway, availability of BTO at the Apple Store must be relatively new. Any idea if you need to call ahead, or are some or all stores now stocking a range of popular configurations instead of one or two stock configs? Or even taking machines out back to install drives, RAM, etc. on request?


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

from what ive seen they are stocking some pre-built machines in popular BTO configurations. I mean...you can't take a macbook air "out back" and add more RAM. again i dont know if keyboards specifically are included as part of this deal, but many other things are (processor bumps, displays, RAM)

best bet would be to call the store you want to go to and see if they have what you want. availability almost certainly changes day to day so you'll never get a proper answer unless you go straight to the horses, so to speak


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Some good deals on previous gen models from MacMall right now. 

*Mac Closeout Truck Sale - Save up to 69% on Macbooks, iPods, & More*


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## johnnydee (Feb 10, 2004)

mguertin said:


> Lots of us have bought and continue to buy from MacDoc, he's totally legit, no worries there.


+1 for MacDoc
:clap:


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