# Printing B&W image



## WCraig (Jul 28, 2004)

Hi:

I want to end up with a black and white, 5X7, suitable for framing. My first attempt was with Costco online. I chose glossary paper and I don't like the look at all. Too shiny, too dark and a lot of detail in the darker areas was gone. Also, blown out highlights on the cheeks.

The source is a 600 dpi scan of a B&W transparency (think that's the right term). The photograph, of my Dad, was originally published in the Hamilton Spectator over 50 years ago. I'd like to give my Mom a copy on the upcoming anniversary of my Dad's birthday.

I have the original scan in TIFF format. Before printing, I used GraphicConverter's Levels command to adjust the black and white points and lightened the overall tone just slightly. Then saved to jpeg with a high quality setting (95, I believe). Costco has a tickbox offering to "automatically adjust the colour and brightness" of the photo. I turned that off. Perhaps I should have left it on?

Rather than trial and error, I thought I'd ask for tips on getting a better result. 

Craig


----------



## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

First don't get glossy.
Second did you tell Costco to NOT colour correct the image?


----------



## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

Simple, avoid places like Costco, Walmart, etc.

Even Blacks online might have difficulty with this in today's world. They are just not set up to deal with Black & White. I believe that their stores do photo restoration, so they may be able to do good B&W printing. 

I was curious myself, so I did a bit of Googling. Sadly Silvannos closed their doors last year after 57 years. Some other choices that I did find but I have no experience with:

Elevator Professional Photographic Lab 

These guys look like they are serious about what they are doing. They are in Leaside, but it might be worth the drive. 

http://www.torontoblackandwhite.com/

They are located n what used to be the 'pro photo lab area' on River St. In the height of the 35mm days, if you wanted a pro quality print, you headed to the area just west of the DVP, south of Dundas, north of King. It was where a lot of the high end labs were located. 

Either appears to be able to offer what you are looking for, and should be able to help with any touch ups and framing. They also should be able to advise you on the right process for keeping that print around for a long time.


----------



## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

You could also go ask your local Henrys store. I find sometimes you can get some great advice.


----------



## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

I have found Lozeau.com, a Montreal camera shop in the vein of Vistek or Henrys, to be a big step up from the mass-market places.

I don't know for sure, but I would expect Vistek's photo finishing services to be at a similar level, and probably somewhat less expensive than a specialized pro shop.


----------



## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

iMatt said:


> I have found Lozeau.com, a Montreal camera shop in the vein of Vistek or Henrys, to be a big step up from the mass-market places.
> 
> I don't know for sure, but I would expect Vistek's photo finishing services to be at a similar level, and probably somewhat less expensive than a specialized pro shop.


I would concur, but for the price.


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

You could try some local print shops. On our wide format we print on an 8 mil photo satin paper. Should not be that expensive for a print shop to print that out at that size, and you will get some better expertise as well.


----------



## lyonsnet (Feb 19, 2008)

I don't have any useful thoughts on printing in B&W, but I am interested in what you discover for a solution. 

Also, that's a great photo, definitely worth getting a great print of. Good luck.


----------



## kps (May 4, 2003)

Couple of old trusted ones to consider. They'll fix the unequal highlights too, if you want a better overall print. Both downtown, but call them, you may not need to go down there since you have a digital file. 

Pikto I Photobooks, Prints, Giclée, Canvas Wraps, Workshops, Gallery

TIW : Toronto Image Works : Home


----------



## WCraig (Jul 28, 2004)

I appreciate the responses but I'm not interested in making a trip into Toronto just to get a 5X7 print! I was hoping for some tips on preparing the file for printing and recommendations on a service to use (hopefully Oakville or Mississauga). 

Costco is so inexpensive, I may just try a couple of variations (levels, contrast, etc) through them. For sure, matte paper. I'll check into a local photo shop, as well, although it is hard to imagine that they'll be much interested in a single small print...

Thanks,

Craig


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Just a thought, but do you have your own printer and use its print/paper/color option settings, and if it's close to what you want using normal paper, then buy a small package of good photo quality paper and see what results you get.


----------



## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

WCraig said:


> Hi:
> 
> I want to end up with a black and white, 5X7, suitable for framing. My first attempt was with Costco online. I chose glossary paper and I don't like the look at all. Too shiny, too dark and a lot of detail in the darker areas was gone. Also, blown out highlights on the cheeks.
> 
> ...


It's all about halftone and not soo much dpi. Also look up LPI line screen. 
Hope this guides you in the right direction.


----------



## WCraig (Jul 28, 2004)

pm-r said:


> Just a thought, but do you have your own printer and use its print/paper/color option settings, and if it's close to what you want using normal paper, then buy a small package of good photo quality paper and see what results you get.


Should have mentioned...I don't print many photos but, until now, I've printed them at home. I've noticed that the pictures fade and colours shift in just a couple of years. I believe that a commercial print ought to last a lot longer.

Craig


----------



## WCraig (Jul 28, 2004)

macintosh doctor said:


> It's all about halftone and not soo much dpi. Also look up LPI line screen.
> Hope this guides you in the right direction.


Actually, no, that isn't much help at all. None of the commercial services specify either of those parameters; much less give me any control over them. BTW, in case you missed it, this is a scan from a negative; not from the printed newspaper. 

I finally noticed that the file is a 32 bits per pixel COLOUR scan. For each of the following, I chose the option that printed it "Black & White". Yesterday, I did a couple more experiments and compared them to the Costco 'colour' print on glossary paper:

1) Henry's online...signed up but could not get the jpeg file to upload with either their 'express' or 'full resolution' functions. Gave up.

2) Black's 1 hr digital print..."Black & White" option, matte paper. Cost: 1 - 5X7, $0.33. Better than the earlier Costco print, but darker than...

3) Costco..."Black & White" option, matte paper. The best of the three so far. Blown highlights on the face are not quite so intense. Cost: 1 - 5X7 $0.32.

BTW, I noticed that all three were printed on Fujifilm Crystal Archive paper, including both the colour and black & white prints from Costco. I guess there is so little call for B&W printing that they don't use a dedicated machine/paper for it. (I had hopes.)

As you might guess, I've now invested a crazy amount of time in submitting and driving around picking up prints at various places even though the cost per print is negligible. I'm reluctant to involve a pro studio or print shop as I think the quality improvement will be more than offset by the cost and time involved. 

At this point, I'm concluding it is 'good enough' unless someone has a concrete suggestion for something better at reasonable cost?

Incidentally, I imagine the camera used for the shot would be something like the following!










Thanks,

Craig


----------



## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

it has no relevance that it was a scan from a negative..
when you are outputting you need to make sure the halftone dots appear when out putting in both the white and black areas.. halftone helps, because if you are treating it like a regular image you will experience what is happening. 
halftone simulates continuous tone imagery through the use of dots, varying either in size, in shape or in spacing.
Halftones and Resolution Basics

good luck - just trying to help..black and white images can not be treated like colour..


----------



## kps (May 4, 2003)

Halftones?????? WTF?

W, get yourself the trial version of Adobe Lightroom (full functionality) get the best possible original, save it as a sRBG JPG in best quality with an adequate size for a 8x10. My guess, somewhere about 3000x2400(min) coming in at 5mp file size at 300ppi. Even though you are printing at 5x7, it's nice to have a 8x10 version too. You never know.

Use Lightroom to strip colour data, equalize the image, fix blown hi-lites, etc, etc, forever...make as many variations as you'd like.

Email to Costco, if you must continue to use that service and hope you get what you want. 

Quality custom retouching and restoration takes time, experience, and/or money. Stop waisting more time, get 'er done.

My quick and dirty Lightroom result just to give you an idea.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Wow, I'm sure no photo judge but those results are pretty impressive to me and puts some life into it, especially considering the source and a "quick and dirty Lightroom" job.


----------



## kps (May 4, 2003)

pm-r said:


> Wow, I'm sure no photo judge but those results are pretty impressive to me and puts some life into it, especially considering the source and a "quick and dirty Lightroom" job.


Pretty much all I used on this...with a few minor adjustments in shadow/contrast, etc.





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## screature (May 14, 2007)

kps said:


> *Halftones?????? WTF?...
> *


Agreed half tones are for print, i.e. news papers, magazines etc. and at that are very outdated. NOT for true photographic quality reproduction... md is out of his depth on this.

Sorry kps I prefer WCraig's "original" to your quick and dirty LR job, at least on my monitor... to each their own.


----------



## kps (May 4, 2003)

screature said:


> Sorry kps I prefer WCraig's "original" to your quick and dirty LR job, at least on my monitor... to each their own.


That;s perfictly fine, the original is a 'classic' but the harsh lighting may not reproduce well on photo paper for WC's liking. I offered a way to adjust the tonality of the image which may improve the output to paper and save it in a format acceptable to most commercial photo printers. That is all. It was not meant to be a restoration.


----------



## screature (May 14, 2007)

kps said:


> That;s perfictly fine, the original is a 'classic' but the harsh lighting may not reproduce well on photo paper for WC's liking. I offered a way to adjust the tonality of the image which may improve the output to paper and save it in a format acceptable to most commercial photo printers. That is all. It was not meant to be a restoration.


Ok I get your drift.


----------



## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

screature said:


> Agreed half tones are for print, i.e. news papers, magazines etc. and at that are very outdated. NOT for true photographic quality reproduction... md is out of his depth on this.
> 
> Sorry kps I prefer WCraig's "original" to your quick and dirty LR job, at least on my monitor... to each their own.


No problem, but Costco and blacks use continuous tone which is not black and white friendly, so I suggested halftone which will be a lost friendlier for that method.


----------



## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

macintosh doctor said:


> No problem, but Costco and blacks use *continuous tone which is not black and white friendly*, so I suggested halftone which will be a lost friendlier for that method.


I don't know who told you that, but they're full of it. Was not true for film/wet darkroom, is not true today.

Just find the nearest gallery exhibiting B&W prints. You will not find any halftone prints on the wall.


----------



## screature (May 14, 2007)

iMatt said:


> I don't know who told you that, but they're full of it. Was not true for film/wet darkroom, is not true today.
> 
> Just find the nearest gallery exhibiting B&W prints. You will not find any halftone prints on the wall.


Exactly. Half tones, when they were/are actually still used (which is next to never), are for publications i.e. newspapers, magazines and the like. True photographic reproduction is continuous/full tone...


----------



## screature (May 14, 2007)

macintosh doctor said:


> No problem, but Costco and blacks use *continuous tone which is not black and white friendly*, so I suggested halftone which will be a lost friendlier for that method.


Continuous tone is most definitely B&W friendly and has been for years and years... Again not quite sure where you are getting your information from as iMatt stated...

One way or another half tones have absolutely nothing to do with true photographic reproduction of B&W photos and never did.


----------

