# R.I.P. Michael Jackson



## ScanMan (Sep 11, 2007)

*Michael dead?*

Celebrity Gossip | Entertainment News | Celebrity News | TMZ.com


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

unconfirmed gossip


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

CNN reports Jackson in a coma.


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## ScanMan (Sep 11, 2007)

Ottawaman said:


> CNN reports Jackson in a coma.


As does LA Times


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

LA Times and CBS report MJ dead.


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## shredder (Mar 15, 2009)

Ottawaman said:


> LA Times and CBS report MJ dead.



Looks like dead and revived to me.. they wouldn't have take him to la hospital if he was already dead , or he died a second time in hospital , either way it seems the oxygen chamber failed to live up to its promise.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

*Michael Jackson dies at 50*



> CBC News
> 
> Michael Jackson, shown March 5, 2009, was set to play 10 live concerts at the London O2 Arena in July. (Joel Ryan/Associated Press)Pop star Michael Jackson, who bridged the gap between black soul and white pop music, has died in Los Angeles. He was 50.
> 
> ...


Michael Jackson dies at 50: reports


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## shredder (Mar 15, 2009)

looks like I better find that thriller LP .. cbc now reports MJ dead at 50.


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## G-Mo (Sep 26, 2007)

LA Times is confirming the rumour he died earlier today...

LA Times: Michael Jackson Dead After Cardiac Arrest - Cincinnati breaking news, weather radar, traffic from 9News | Channel 9 WCPO.com


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

http://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/77645-michael-dead.html


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Couple threads merged


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

Incredible talent. Sad life. Who could be normal in his circumstances?


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## ScanMan (Sep 11, 2007)

Wow, two icons just hours apart. Frankly, Farrah's courageous battle doesn't deserve to be eclipsed by this freak show. But that's showbiz.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Well, he was more than a freakshow and a pedophile, although very much both those things.

Farrah had way more courage. At one point she made the decision to stop portraying women who were simply victims, and made a second career out of playing strong women.

MJ made a second career out of playing with little boys. Sure, his music was great and some will definitely stand the test of time, like this:

YouTube - Michael Jackson - Black Or White

but the rest...


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## ScanMan (Sep 11, 2007)

HowEver said:


> Well, he was more than a freakshow and a pedophile, although very much both those things.
> 
> Farrah had way more courage. At one point she made the decision to stop portraying women who were simply victims, and made a second career out of playing strong women.
> 
> MJ made a second career out of playing with little boys. Sure, his music was great and some will definitely stand the test of time...


What you said +1. Tho I'm not sure how big MJ would have kicked it off, without Q.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

scanman said:


> wow, two icons just hours apart. Frankly, farrah's courageous battle doesn't deserve to be eclipsed by this freak show. But that's showbiz.


*+1*


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## MACinist (Nov 17, 2003)

.... let the man rest in peace. He didn't plan to steal Fawcett's and McMahon's "thunder".


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

Child molesting freaks should never rest in peace.


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

MazterCBlazter said:


> Gone is someone that I don't think that any of us will ever fully understand. An unusual man, but a good man overall.
> 
> His impact on the world is huge. He tried to make it a better place through his talent.
> 
> ...


Well you just go on believing that...:lmao:


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


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## MACinist (Nov 17, 2003)

HowEver said:


> Farrah had way more courage. At one point she made the decision to stop portraying women who were simply victims, and made a second career out of playing strong women.
> 
> .


Not taking anything away from FF, and she should rest in peace as much as anybody but I fail to see this as courage. 

If you are going to bring up dirty laundry, then be fair. Narcotics abuse? 

Any case, enough pi$$'n on peoples graves. I don't expect this thread to turn into a vigil.


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

kps said:


> Well you just go on believing that...:lmao:


And you somehow have some inside scoop, some sort of proof that Jackson molested children? How do you know he wasn't just some overgrown kid who only felt comfortable around 10 year olds? 

In the one case that came to court, the parents of the accuser were absolute scumbags looking for a settlement. Look it up.

Not one single accusation of molestation was made by a reliable witness.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

MazterCBlazter said:


> Neither should you.


You making it personal? Bring it on...


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

kps said:


> child molesting freaks should never rest in peace.


+1


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## Cameo (Aug 3, 2004)

He was a strange person, I have trouble with grown men sleeping with children. 
The only good thing I can say about Michael Jackson was that he had some songs
that I liked and I always thought his dancing looked like fun.


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

As mentioned there was never 100% proof he did molest children. He displayed how quickly a child can be taken away from being just that. He was never able to grow up emotionally, quickly forced to grow up in a non natural way. His mind in adulthood was not right and I think that we will never understand how he ticked.

There is no excuse good enough to molest a child but there was never certain proof he did just that. 

He was the King of Pop and I hope he is remembered for that, and that alone.


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

Oh wait, I get it...*if the glove doesn't fit...you must acquit!* 














+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

Nice to see you back MasterCBlaster, the doctors obviously gave you an early release I see.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

RunTheWorldOnMac said:


> As mentioned there was never 100% proof he did molest children.


My standard for judging people isn't 100% proof or beyond a reasonable doubt. There is no such thing as a 100% truth in any case because there are no absolute truths.

From what I can tell, the guy is a child molester. I am comfortable making that judgement for the purposes of this thread.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

Child molester or not, he was a very talented musician. His influence will live on.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

Personally, I am looking forward to all the tasteless jokes that will be produced in the coming weeks.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

kps said:


> Nice to see you back MasterCBlaster, the doctors obviously gave you an early release I see.


Very rude and inappropriate. Take a break.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

There was a recent documentary on Frontline about Michael Jackson. For the life of me, I can't find the name of it. 

Had in depth interviews from people who were close to him from the beginning. A manager who has been with him since the start and another fellow. Also, 2 reporters who were covering all the court cases. 

Documentary painted a very different picture of Michael Jackson, which I believe. Michael Jackson was without a doubt, a genius. But he used that genius to create the whole Wacko Jacko persona, and also had a very serious problem of being sexually attracted to young men. 

He will always have his musical genius, but for me his memory will forever be tainted.


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## Kazak (Jan 19, 2004)

Michael Jackson released a handful of songs I like a lot (including "Black or White," HowEver), but the news of his death does not move me much. I think it is reasonable and fair to distinguish between an artist and his/her work, and to evaluate each separately. I came to this conclusion not today, but years ago when Pete Townshend got in trouble for visiting the wrong kind of websites. I found his excuse (research) to be either an unimaginative lie or a sign of incredibly poor judgment. Musically, though, he had been, and continues to be, one of my heroes. Separating the man from his work allowed me to continue to enjoy his music, regardless of whatever issues arose in his personal life.

A list of flawed people who made great art would be long, indeed.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Hmmp - there was a part of it on CBC news ....Michael Jackson: What Happened Next - I think is the name.

CBC Newsworld : Passionate Eye Showcase : Michael Jackson, What Happened Next?

I enjoyed some of his music and dancing.....sad life tho....strange end...


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## shredder (Mar 15, 2009)

Big difference between PT and MJ .. PT got caught red handed with a little boy as his choice of desktop , he was caught by the cops and never denied it. No doubt his "research" went to far and it was a lame excuse , it was the only excuse he had since being caught red handed.

MJ played around with kids but he maintains he never went to far into anything sexual. I used to think he was a diddler based on that one big complaint and then it got released that the accuser was a lawsuit king and already had prior major lawsuits. It seemed like a trash family with a previous history of trying to sue over false allegations and the kid was a bit of a loser as well , obviously coming from a loser mom who tries to make a living suing people. Honestly if you are a lawsuit king MJ was the perfect target.


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## G-Mo (Sep 26, 2007)

It's sad that his brilliance as a performer will be overshadowed by his unfortunate personal life.

I feel sorry for his children, for whom he was the only guardian, and I hope in the fallout to all of this THEIR best interests are put number 1!


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## Gerbill (Jul 1, 2003)

It's actually quite common for people to make excuses for perverts whose artistic productions they like. I'm just glad that kids are safe from him now.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

shredder said:


> Big difference between PT and MJ .. PT got caught red handed with a little boy as his choice of desktop , he was caught by the cops and never denied it. No doubt his "research" went to far and it was a lame excuse , it was the only excuse he had since being caught red handed.
> 
> MJ played around with kids but he maintains he never went to far into anything sexual. I used to think he was a diddler based on that one big complaint and then it got released that the accuser was a lawsuit king and already had prior major lawsuits. It seemed like a trash family with a previous history of trying to sue over false allegations and the kid was a bit of a loser as well , obviously coming from a loser mom who tries to make a living suing people. Honestly if you are a lawsuit king MJ was the perfect target.


The thing that seems to suggest PT is not a pedophile is that he never denied anything. In fact, one could say he was honest to a fault. Who can honestly say they've never visited an "inappropriate" website? Do you really know the ages of all the, er, participants you see? You can't tell someone's age just by looking at them, and 18 is the cutoff, people. Seems to the MO of the pedophile is to deny, protest, rationalize, but not to divulge. I could be wrong.

MJ, sadly, was in denial that he had a problem. He seemed to see no problem with an adult having children over for sleepovers. I'd say that's a BIG step up from looking at websites. I also have to question the parenting skills of the children involved in these sleepovers. What were they thinking?


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Nothing whatsoever to do with MJ (since I have no knowledge one way or another) but a chance to clear up a common misconception:

Pedophilia (also spelled paedophilia) is a sexual attraction to prepubescent children.

Ephebophilia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is the attraction to early-mid teens.

Police and others tend to misuse the term pedophile to mean anyone having sex with underage people. Under Canadian law, 20-year-old with a 15-year-old girlfriend is a pedophile in the eyes of the police/media, but that's just blatantly ridiculous.*

*Having said that, Canada's consent laws are a lot more sane than the US's.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

The term in psychology is used differently than in common usage. The police aren't wrong, and neither is the description we generally think of, and use.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

HowEver said:


> The term in psychology is used differently than in common usage. The police aren't wrong, and neither is the description we generally think of, and use.


And that would be……? There is a big difference between how pre-pubescent children and teenagers look. In fact, we tend to parade the teen-age ones everywhere from fashion to soft porn. Sometimes these are one and the same. You might be surprised how many "hotties" we salivate over are actually teenagers. This would seem to indicate a disconnect, because suddenly teens are fair game when they turn 18? But 17 and 364 days is a child? I can't tell the difference by looking at them. Can you?


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## Cole Slaw (Aug 26, 2005)

fjnmusic said:


> And that would be……? There is a big difference between how pre-pubescent children and teenagers look. In fact, we tend to parade the teen-age ones everywhere from fashion to soft porn. Sometimes these are one and the same. You might be surprised how many "hotties" we salivate over are actually teenagers. This would seem to indicate a disconnect, because suddenly teens are fair game when they turn 18? But 17 and 364 days is a child? I can't tell the difference by looking at them. Can you?


I think the boy who Michael Jackson paid off to keep quiet about things was like 12.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

Well, he didn't stay quiet for long. Michael was ultimately acquitted in this case. Strange parents, I'd have to say. That doesn't mean Michael didn't do other things that were as bad or worse, but it means this case was weak. In any event, his story is a sad one. It's a pretty crappy legacy if he was in fact innocent.


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## Cole Slaw (Aug 26, 2005)

fjnmusic said:


> Well, he didn't stay quiet for long. Michael was ultimately acquitted in this case. Strange parents, I'd have to say. That doesn't mean Michael didn't do other things that were as bad or worse, but it means this case was weak. In any event, his story is a sad one. It's a pretty crappy legacy if he was in fact innocent.


I think you are talking about the court case that took place in 2003 or so.
I'm talking about what happened 10 years before that when Mr. Jackson paid $22 million in an out of court settlement to a family who made allegations of child sexual abuse against him.


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## MLeh (Dec 23, 2005)

I hope in time Michael Jackson will be remembered for his many contributions to music, and most especially music videos. 

I believe he was robbed of his childhood (starting performing at age 5 will tend to do that to you), and a lot of his adulthood was spent trying to regain that lost childhood and innocence. 

Allegations are just that - allegations. Michael Jackson was an easy target, perhaps because of his naiveté and needs. In the court of law he defended himself - and was acquitted. Apparently this isn't enough when it comes to gossip.

_The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic._ - JFK


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

This sounds like some truth in it.....demerol ..... he had very little body mass from the way photos show....

Video: Michael Jackson death 'linked to painkiller injection' -Times Online


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

fjnmusic said:


> Well, he didn't stay quiet for long. Michael was ultimately acquitted in this case. Strange parents, I'd have to say. That doesn't mean Michael didn't do other things that were as bad or worse, but it means this case was weak. In any event, his story is a sad one. It's a pretty crappy legacy if he was in fact innocent.


Ya, the parents were real scumbags. No question MJ had an unhealthy and probably illegal attraction to young boys but, you really do have to question the parents for letting their 12 year old boys hang out with a middle aged man. I don't think MJ was coaching Little League.

In any event, I was looking forward to his comeback tour. I already broke out the moonwalk and showed it to the kids. They were embarrassed for me.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I don't have enough information to say whether Jackson was good or bad. He'll go down in history as a questionable and suspicious character with freakish tendencies that were unhealthy choices for the kids he subjected himself to--unless someone drags out some ironclad proof.

I have no real understanding as to how performing celebrities are branded _courageous_ or _good_ simply because they ply their trade. Nobody says that Lupo the butcher down the street is courageous because he decided he'd rather be in sheet metal, or that the guy who polishes apples at the fruit market "gives it his all" for Granny Smith fans.


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

Beyond allegations, court cases, etc... The death of MJ will certainly bring the Recession to the Paparazzi Industry. There are a few hundred people who will be affected, subject to layoffs, or forced to follow lesser stars around...


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

Don't kid yourself. Brangelina and co. will continue to draw plenty of flies - I mean paparazzi. The stars themselves don't outlive the system. The system's got plenty of life in it yet. The public appetite for this stuff is immense.


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## chasMac (Jul 29, 2008)

Agreed. A lot of people will make a lot of money off his death. Undoubtedly, some 'lost' tracks will be released. And creditors will be on his estate like vultures, for all the money he apparently owed.


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## sharonmac09 (Apr 10, 2009)

Macfury said:


> I don't have enough information to say whether Jackson was good or bad. He'll go down in history as a questionable and suspicious character with freakish tendencies that were unhealthy choices for the kids he subjected himself to--unless someone drags out some ironclad proof.
> 
> I have no real understanding as to how performing celebrities are branded _courageous_ or _good_ simply because they ply their trade. Nobody says that Lupo the butcher down the street is courageous because he decided he'd rather be in sheet metal, or that the guy who polishes apples at the fruit market "gives it his all" for Granny Smith fans.


I second MacFury. Some of you seem to have "inside" info on MJ's personal life. You have decided for whatever reason to believe the media's reporting and conjecture. I will give MJ the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. I suggest you do the same.


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## cap10subtext (Oct 13, 2005)

ehMax said:


> He will always have his musical genius, but for me his memory will forever be tainted.


+1



> I don't have enough information to say whether Jackson was good or bad. He'll go down in history as a questionable and suspicious character with freakish tendencies that were unhealthy choices for the kids he subjected himself to--unless someone drags out some ironclad proof.
> 
> I have no real understanding as to how performing celebrities are branded courageous or good simply because they ply their trade. Nobody says that Lupo the butcher down the street is courageous because he decided he'd rather be in sheet metal, or that the guy who polishes apples at the fruit market "gives it his all" for Granny Smith fans.


I also find it amazing how people can judge someone based on a stage persona. He was, without question one of the most amazing performers of our time but I feel like saying that can't dismiss the fact he made very many poor choices in life and very likely hurt people whatever his intentions may have been.


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

I feel safe in saying no one on this board knew MJ. We only know of him. We only know what the media reports and we believe, what we want to believe, based on what is important to us.

For some it is sad when people die and for others it a joyous occasion as the deceased have laid down their burdens. Some believe that it is bad form to speak ill of the dead or at least until they're buried.

I didn’t feel much of anything when I heard the news on CBC Radio’s AIH. My first thought was “you never know” with regard to his age at death and then “I’m older and I’m still ticking and you never know.”

I don’t know if the news of his death is sad news or if I should consider it joyous.

Perhaps the King of Pop (self proclaimed) will join his former father-in-law the (so called) King of Rock and Roll. Perhaps fans will have these two as the un-dead kings and sightings shall soon be reported in the Inquirer.


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## MACinist (Nov 17, 2003)

chasMac said:


> Agreed. A lot of people will make a lot of money off his death. Undoubtedly, some 'lost' tracks will be released. And creditors will be on his estate like vultures, for all the money he apparently owed.


Check the iTunes store. 6 out of the 10 Top Albums today are MJ's (including 1 and 2). Hopefully his kids see some of that and his 400M debt doesn't get passed on to them.


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## chasMac (Jul 29, 2008)

MACinist said:


> Check the iTunes store. 6 out of the 10 Top Albums today are MJ's (including 1 and 2). Hopefully his kids see some of that and his 400M debt doesn't get passed on to them.


Geez, didn't know it was 400 million. But, I honestly think his death's 'value' will far surpass that. There is a lot of money to be made. I wonder if the concert promoters in London insured his gigs, those looked like they were going to be _huge_.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

MacDoc said:


> Hmmp - there was a part of it on CBC news ....Michael Jackson: What Happened Next - I think is the name.
> 
> CBC Newsworld : Passionate Eye Showcase : Michael Jackson, What Happened Next?
> 
> I enjoyed some of his music and dancing.....sad life tho....strange end...


Ahhh... that's the one I saw.


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

MACinist said:


> Check the iTunes store. 6 out of the 10 Top Albums today are MJ's (including 1 and 2). Hopefully his kids see some of that and his 400M debt doesn't get passed on to them.


I'm not sure if it's true or not but I heard a while back that he owned allot of the rights to The Beatles catalog if this is true that should be able to cover some of that 400m he owed.

Laterz


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## MACinist (Nov 17, 2003)

K_OS said:


> I'm not sure if it's true or not but I heard a while back that he owned allot of the rights to The Beatles catalog if this is true that should be able to cover some of that 400m he owed.
> 
> Laterz


He owned it jointly with Sony. He paid 47 million for it and was one of his greatest business decisions if you ask me. However, Sony reported in recent times that Jackson used his half as collateral to borrow money from Sony. I'm assuming that with so much debt, Sony was never paid back, hence they get to keep the full rights. Or maybe there is an insurance policy that covers that.. I don't know.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Look, when I was a kid, I was a huge MJ fan. Still am a fan of his music. Also, was a very staunch supporter of his through the trials. *Look back at this post from 2003* with a very eerie thread title. 

I don't claim to know MJ, but I have read and seen enough interviews from the people that were very close to him... to come to my own conclusion that there was just way too much there. From secret doors in his bedroom, to taking young men on dates to awards show. 

Found the documentary online, here they are:





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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

Max said:


> Don't kid yourself. Brangelina and co. will continue to draw plenty of flies - I mean paparazzi. The stars themselves don't outlive the system. The system's got plenty of life in it yet. The public appetite for this stuff is immense.


Sure, but Jacko was a very intense, single point source of odd, attention grabbing behaviour. By comparison, Brangelina looks very pedestrian, especally since they are living a fairly moderate and normal lifestyle when compared to epics like the Jacksons. A Day In The Life Of Michael Jackson was one of the wierdest shows ever, and I mean weird - it even competes with the E! True Hollywood Story about that Tattoo guy from Fantasy Island when it comes to wierd.

Sure, there are drunkards like Spears or that Lohan, but that is nothing compared to anything that Jacko did. That guy was just pure nuts...


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## G-Mo (Sep 26, 2007)

*Top 10 Albums on iTunes*

*CANADA

1/ Number Ones - Michael Jackson
2/ The Essential Michael Jackson - Michael Jackson
3/ Thriller - Michael Jackson*
4/ Old Crowes / Young Cardinals - Alexisonfire
5/ The E.N.D. - Black Eyed Peas
*6/ Thriller (25th Anniversary) - Michael Jackson
7/ HIStory: Michael Jackson's Greatest Hits - Michael Jackson
8/ Thriller (Special Edition) - Michael Jackson
9/ Bad - Michael Jackson*
10/ Far - Regina Spektor

*USA

1/ The Essential Michael Jackson - Michael Jackson
2/ Thriller - Michael Jackson
3/ Number Ones - Michael Jackson
4/ Off The Wall - Michael Jackson
5/ Thriller (25th Anniversary) - Michael Jackson
6/ Bad - Michael Jackson
7/ Michael Jackson: The Ultimate Collection - Michael Jackson*
8/ Far - Regina Spektor
9/ The E.N.D. - Black Eyed Peas
*10/ Dangerous - Michael Jackson*


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## ScanMan (Sep 11, 2007)

hhk said:


> ... you really do have to question the parents for letting their 12 year old boys hang out with a middle aged man. I don't think MJ was coaching Little League...


Little League? With the keys to a private amusement park and zoo, this guy was playing with the minors in the majors.


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## MACinist (Nov 17, 2003)

I think that was the point.... the proposition was quite obvious to the parents to feel discomfort in not allowing their child to have "sleep overs" at his Neverland ranch. He didn't have to become a priest or a little league coach to disguise his intention of being around younger boys. Again, I don't know what happened aside from a heck of a lot of poor decisions, greedy scumbag parent law suits and payoffs. I truly hope nothing did happen for the sake of the children, and that he was just an eccentric genius borderline insane that thought of himself as a kid all his life and was misunderstood. But we will now never now (aside from the ones that already made their decision).

The payoffs portray guilt, however, being a private, reserved person like him who spent money like it was water, a payoff is the easier route by far then to be dragged through legal and public court. Especially when his physical appearance changed on a daily basis. The man spent 2.1 million on a lunch with Buffet one time. What's a payoff to him? Nothing. He only finally went to court last time because he was broke after paying off his ex-wife millions to have full custody of their children. Any case, I'm either way. It was possible for him to be misunderstood, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was a pervert pedophile. However, you can't disregard what he did for music, dance, world hunger and racism. And putting him on trial after he dies is really pointless.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

I've had told a lot of people this and probably mentioned this on ehMac before...

I think the absolute most successful publicity stunt in history would be to fake your death and have the world believing you're dead and then come back. 

It will happen someday.


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## MACinist (Nov 17, 2003)

ehMax said:


> I've had told a lot of people this and probably mentioned this on ehMac before...
> 
> I think the absolute most successful publicity stunt in history would be to fake your death and have the world believing you're dead and then come back.
> 
> It will happen someday.


Ha... he would be the type to pull it off but I think it was too public to even consider that in this case. Plus he has no money to do it. 

Unlike Tupac and Notorious BIG who are playing ping pong in the Carribean somwhere and releasing albums from "lost footage".


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## mc3251 (Sep 28, 2007)

I find myself thinking about how I need to separate artistic achievement from personal qualities and foibles. He could sing and dance and perform like few others. He had a public persona that was obviously all about Weird.

All I know is what I have gotten from the media which makes it all suspect.

It strikes me that the elements of his life are the elements of so much of the tragedy that brings so many people down to varying degrees. Abused becoming abusers. Addiction. Ego distortion in the extreme. Fear, fear, and more fear. 

The way that it looks to me, this achingly beautiful child star; this handsome and talented young man; became a shrunken, Gollum-like wraith who lived and died increasingly alone. When Weird hits a certain level, isolation follows.

Sad, truly sad.


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## MACinist (Nov 17, 2003)

mc3251 said:


> The way that it looks to me, this achingly beautiful child star; this handsome and talented young man; became a shrunken, Gollum-like wraith who lived and died increasingly alone. When Weird hits a certain level, isolation follows.


:clap:


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## Dreambird (Jan 24, 2006)

Indeed... :clap:

Personally I don't know what to feel about MJ... it depresses me to think of him. I don't know for certain what he did that might have been criminal or not and I don't want to think about that now... I sincerely hope he's in better place. That's all.



mc3251 said:


> The way that it looks to me, this achingly beautiful child star; this handsome and talented young man; became a shrunken, Gollum-like wraith who lived and died increasingly alone. When Weird hits a certain level, isolation follows.
> 
> Sad, truly sad.


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## sharonmac09 (Apr 10, 2009)

mc3251 said:


> The way that it looks to me, this achingly beautiful child star; this handsome and talented young man; became a shrunken, Gollum-like wraith who lived and died increasingly alone. When Weird hits a certain level, isolation follows.
> 
> Sad, truly sad.


A very eloquent perspective mc3251 :clap:


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## Elric (Jul 30, 2005)

His achievements over the years have been astounding, this man single handedly changed every aspect of the music industry. From music videos, music styles, Live performances and even using Music in/as Advertising (Apple Ads would be in a VERY different place). All the while reaching GLOBAL stardom. The only person to come close to Global was Lennon,

I don't think any one of us would be any less "weird" if we were thrust into international stardom from practically a toddler.

Rumours, feelings of disgust, and accusations all aside, this man, change the entire world.


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

Elric said:


> I don't think any one of us would be any less "weird" if we were *thrust* into international stardom from practically a toddler.


"Thrust" is probably too generous a word here. MJ himself spoke of rehearsing from right after school until late into the night while his father sat there watching/threatening with a belt in his hand.... It isn't much of a surprise that the guy turned out to be 'weird' by most standards. It is a surprise that his creativity/artistry survived such treatment. Drugs weren't an issue until after he was seriously burned in a commercial shoot and in another situation he fell off stage and broke a leg, an arm and a couple of ribs.

As for the notion that his Beatles song rights can clear his debts - that asset is already collateralised to the 'tune' (pardon the pun) of about 200mil.


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## chasMac (Jul 29, 2008)

rgray said:


> It is a surprise that his creativity/artistry survived such treatment.


I'm not sure if _in spite of _is the correct sentiment here. Read the histories of some classical composers, like Mozart. They too received similar treatment from their fathers, instructors, ie: they were beaten (as were most children of the day).


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## MACinist (Nov 17, 2003)

chasMac said:


> I'm not sure if _in spite of _is the correct sentiment here. Read the histories of some classical composers, like Mozart. They too received similar treatment from their fathers, instructors, ie: they were beaten (as were most children of the day).


 I don't think that it should be used as an excuse, however, comparing people centuries apart is a bit of a stretch. I doubt Mozart had hundreds of paparazzi's chasing him around on a daily basis broadcasting his idiosyncrasies. 

Let's compare celebrities in the same era?

Macaulay Culkin: had severe issues. May still do as he is very young. 
Drew Barrymore: an alcoholic by 9, marijuana smoker by 10, and snorting cocaine by 12. By 15, and after 3 rehab visits, a suicide attempt and recovery, she was able to recover thankfully. 
Lindsay Lohan: not on the best path. In and out of rehab. 
Britney Spears: although may not of been 'physically' abused, similar treatment by parents. And she's been not "handling" it well for the past several years. 

Of course you can find an equal amount of celebrities that were abused or pressured into entertainment that ended up ok. All I'm saying is that the pre-disposition effects everyone differently but is definitely linked to psychological issues later on in life.


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

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## Cole Slaw (Aug 26, 2005)

Well maybe you and your celebrity friends don't regard MJ as a child molester, but I bet millions and millions of others do.
He was a real musical talent, can't take that away from him. Thankfully for him he was rich, so he could buy off an accuser, or get the best in legal representation to fight it.
Anyone else, not so monetarily endowed, would be labelled a child molester and probably be in jail.
Rich = Eccentric, while Poor = Pervert.
Great musician and performer, but I still say he probably liked to diddle little boys.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Cole Slaw said:


> Rich = Eccentric, while Poor = Pervert.


While not intended as a comment on this case specifically, there is a HELL of a lot of truth in the statement above.


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

Cole Slaw said:


> Rich = Eccentric, while Poor = Pervert.





chas_m said:


> While not intended as a comment on this case specifically, there is a HELL of a lot of truth in the statement above.


That specific statement is true, I'll agree, but it would do well to remember that despite the best efforts of some very powerful accusers MJ was never convicted.


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## mc3251 (Sep 28, 2007)

We all make choices in our lives. There are legions of us who can tell horror stories of abuse as children-this is sad and tragic and is not in any way unique or even rare, unfortunately.
We are still accountable for our choices, and for the life and persona we create out of those choices.


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

^^^
OJ was acquitted as well - so what's your point?


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

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## jimbotelecom (May 29, 2009)

*Speaking of R.I.P.*

YouTube - Hitler finds out Michael Jackson has died.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

*He's gone, let the games begin!*

It is sad when life passes, however he's was just a talented man, not a God, even though some try to make him so.

He was a father and a husband....and based on the media frenzy these past 10 to 20 years...was probably not good at either.

Lost this week were also: Farrah, Ed, Billy [ although not generally iconic, and Gale ] to little fanfare.

What is sad, really, is that even in death, billing takes place. Was Mother Theresa any less a saint than Lady Di?

If feel sorry for his children...especially going forward, Grandpa Joe seems more oily now than his Jackson 5 days...but who I feel most sorry for is the news media.

Milking every angle under the guise of news to feed a fan base of a man many only thought they knew....the crime in this is that we many never really know the man in the mirror.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

EvanPitts said:


> ^^^
> OJ was acquitted as well - so what's your point?


The one that accused MJ as well as the boy's parents were found not to be credible witnesses. This was _after_ thay had already settled out of court, by the way. Just because you think he's guilty does not make him guilty. Personally, _I_ would never have let my kids have a sleepover at his house, but that's me. 

Dangling his own child over the balcony rail was enough evidence for me for his lack of good parenting skills. But that does not necessarily mean he was a pedophile. Unhealthy obsession with young boys? Certainly. But the big difference with MJ was that he was pretty open about it. Not the MO of a typical pedophile. The biggest thing about pedophiles is that they don't want to get caught and don't parade the sleepovers with children aspect.


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## mc3251 (Sep 28, 2007)

It's pretty hard for me to separate the hype and hyperbola from the real levels of talent that existed. I have heard him praised as the greatest this and the greatest that, but I ask, if Stevie Wonder died right now, would the media still be going on and on about it a week later, or two weeks later, or??
It isn't just about talent in this case. It's about all the juicy bits that MF created in his life-and whether we like it or not he created them.
I think he was very talented, but most of the endless publiicity has nothing to do with that.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

mc3251 said:


> it's about all the juicy bits that *mf* created in his life-and whether we like it or not he created them.


hey!!!!!


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

MazterCBlazter--the comments are taking up to a half hour to become visible, even though you can see them on the directory


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## Kazak (Jan 19, 2004)

Macfury said:


> hey!!!!!


So, do you deny then that there are juicy bits in your celebrated past? Okay, Bob, bring out our next guest . . .


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## chaitova18 (Jul 3, 2009)

*Can't we just leave the guy alone!*

My G_d, this is getting more coverage than it's worth!


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Kazak said:


> So, do you deny then that there are juicy bits in your celebrated past? Okay, Bob, bring out our next guest . . .


I'm still wondering whether I've stopped beating my dog yet...


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## Kazak (Jan 19, 2004)

chaitova18 said:


> My G_d, this is getting more coverage than it's worth!


But Macfury pioneered the Moonthink, in which you give the illusion of becoming more progressive in your thinking, while it's actually becoming retrograde. Within weeks of the debut of Macfury's hit video "Beat it (the dog, that is)," the Moonthink was adopted by the BC Liberals, the Canadian Conservatives, and the American Republicans (though the last group never got the hang of appearing progressive).


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Kazak said:


> But Macfury pioneered the Moonthink, in which you give the illusion of becoming more progressive in your thinking, while it's actually becoming retrograde. Within weeks of the debut of Macfury's hit video "Beat it (the dog, that is)," the Moonthink was adopted by the BC Liberals, the Canadian Conservatives, and the American Republicans (though the last group never got the hang of appearing progressive).


I will now take questions from the floor...in the round.


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## Kazak (Jan 19, 2004)

I have no questions because . . . you're out of my [voice crack] life.

(You know we're going to get complaints for co-opting another "serious" thread.)


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## MACinist (Nov 17, 2003)

Decent Dateline episode last night on MJ"s life. Didn't know he himself made up the many ridiculous National Enquirer stories about him.


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## mc3251 (Sep 28, 2007)

Macfury said:


> hey!!!!!


My apologies, I meant, obviously, MJ. 
It must have been your signature about self responsibility that tweaked me.
I will now go and sit quietly and try to behave myself.


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

MACinist said:


> Decent Dateline episode last night on MJ"s life. Didn't know he himself made up the many ridiculous National Enquirer stories about him.


I think he owned the National Enquirer - it's all about scoring cash by increasing the circulation...


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## Elric (Jul 30, 2005)

Interesting Article in my local rag.
Remember What Acquittal Means?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Elric: I agree with the column. I wouldn't trust him with anyone I hold dear, but that's just my gut talking. I have no interest in him, never much cared for his music, but I will not brand him a pedophile either.


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

Acquittal or no acquittal, he did shell out large, which was probably a bad move. Even though MJ may be sullied with the accusations of being a pedophile - he doesn't seem like the playground candyman kind of person like good old Cliff Olsen. I think it was more like MJ being a 40 year old kid, you know, doing the I'll show you mine if you show me yours. 

He is an example of how a great amount of money can corrupt people - he spent millions of dollars in the same way I might spent a few loonies. He just binged on crazy shopping, and I mean crazy, like buying a circus to hang out at, or chumming with apes and exotic animals. No wonder why he is bankrupt, even though he scored $80 Million per year by just loafing around and collecting royalties for stuff Lennon and McCartney did a half century ago.

He said he wanted to go out big, but it looks like he didn't make it to the toilet like Elvis did...


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

^^^
I just think that much of it comes not from the court case, but the out of court settlement years earlier - it just make it all look so suspicious. Same thing with OJ. Sure, they couldn't find him guilty of murder, but they did take pretty much every cent from him in the civil suit. I don't know if it says anything about MJ (or OJ) - or just the fact that the California Justice System is the more ersatz system in the world. Of course, MJ was his own worst enemy when it came to such PR stunts - like when he showed up for court in pyjamas - something that might be acceptable in India, but really odd in North America...

Of course, the endless coverage demonstrates the dearth of TV programming these days. TV is pretty weak, though looking up once Big Brother starts on Thursday...


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

I can say that I missed the entire MJ deal because I was busy listening to some Barry Manilow... beejacon


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## Cole Slaw (Aug 26, 2005)

Boy am I going to be glad when this Michael Jackson bull**** is over.
Which won't be for a long time, what with the potential custody battles, fight over the estate, etc.
"MazterCBlazter" ought to be able to keep this thread going well into 2011-12.


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## Cole Slaw (Aug 26, 2005)

MazterCBlazter said:


> Donald Trump has said that MJ was absolutely not a child molester. HE said that Michael was a big kid and that his kids loved to play with him.
> 
> Did he have any problem with MIchael Jackson playing with his children? Never.
> 
> ...


Well, if "THE DONALD" says MJ is not a child molester then that's good enough for me...


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

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## Elric (Jul 30, 2005)

maztercblazter said:


> raelianews: Michael jackson, a raelian honorary guide, has probably been cloned by now
> 
> cloning michael jackson?


bwaaaaahaaahahahahahaha!

I'm all for "Freedom of Religion", but come ON, weed out the complete nutjobs!


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

Elric said:


> bwaaaaahaaahahahahahaha!
> 
> I'm all for "Freedom of Religion", but come ON, weed out the complete nutjobs!


It wouldn't surprise me if they are growing a fleet of Michael Jacksons in Korea right now. They just had a report on the news a few days ago about a police dog that was cloned in Korea - though I do not know if the Koreans are ingenious enough to recreate the special cosmetic surgery that MJ had (they may have to call in experts from Austria for that...)

Weeding out the complete nutjobs would make Sunday morning TV far less entertaining - though Ernest Angley, Peter Popoff, Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggert managed to weed themselves out...


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

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