# How much to charge for website design?



## iZac (Mar 6, 2005)

Hey guys, Sorry if this is in the wrong section... but the other post about graphic design prompted me to ask for some suggestions, since it seems that there are other members in this forum that do website design.

What is normal to charge for designing a website? Does it go by site, or by hour, etc? I was asked to redesign a site, so basically just change the 'look and feel', but keep the content the same. It should be a simple site, so no flash or anything like that. What do you guys suggest I should be charging?

Thanks for your help and insight on this.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

I guess it depends on your experience, skills and abilities compounded by the breadth of the site (how much involvement will be required.)

If you think there is a lot of work, you could charge a per-page fee based on the average time it would take you to redesign it -- for example, a firm I used to work for several years ago charged $80.00 per page for an outright site design and content development on average, depending on various bells and whistles they wanted (databases PERL, CGI, etc. usually upped it to $120/page.)

I don't know your abilities or experience, but charge what you feel to be a fair amount per hour... but expect the client to ask for a quote on the amount of time you will require to redesign the site. I've seen people charge $20-$30 per hour... it seems to be the average for freelancers, but experience and skills will make a difference.


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## saxamaphone (May 18, 2004)

For small businesses I would charge $1000 for the face-lift package. that would cover most basic small business websites. If it was really small I would scale as low as $500. Thats for graphic work only, no scripting, no database, just images and color schemes.

I usually charge per hour but very small businesses seem to prefer the cost-certainty method instead. a) agree on project scope b) agree on graphic design c) agree on hours required. In this case the estimate is as good as the invoice. Anything identified after that point would be extra or handled on a later project.

Anything larger than a few dynamic pages is per hour billing. Admittedly, there is very little money to be made with small businesses. I have to do my meetings after hours because small clients have lots of questions, often needing detailed explanations why this little change is necessary. If you can control the client face-time then its ok but if you cant it hurts (i dont charge small businesses for meeting time). going through 2 hours meeting the client, then 2 more hours agreeing on design, then 2 more hours discussing changes or future changes eats into the profitability of a 10 or 20 hour fixed price project. 

For hourly work I charge $50 to $75 an hour depending on the database requirements ($50 for straight graphics work -> $75 for database design and scripting). I have had to clean up a few "my son did this website for my business" and all I can say is if someone is willing to work for $15/hour, your website will look like it was built by someone working for $15/hour. 

Take into account your experience level and comfort working in that area, if it feels like you are charging too little, you probably are. If it feels like you are charging too high, you probably are. small businesses are more price sensitive so although you may make good money on one site, if you dont deliver quality you can bet that the customer wont be recommending you to anyone else. In this business referral is the key, the referred customer has an idea of what they want (I want what you did for Joe!) they have an idea of how much it costs (I can spend $XX more/less than Joe!) they have an idea of the timeframe (I need it sooner than Joe!) and they have a little trust in you since their good friend Joe used you and was happy. A great place to get new customers is to join the local chamber of commerce. They meet monthly and everyone there is a potential customer. Volunteer to speak at a luncheon and you can have a captive audience of potential clients that are in a relaxed familiar place. If people recognize you then you stand a better chance of getting business from them when their time comes to re-vamp their website. Also, if you live in big city, join or attend chamber of commerce meetings for smaller outlying towns and cities. Thats how I got my start without facing the cutthroat spit-polished competition from the big city. 

Best of luck to you.


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

> the cutthroat spit-polished competition


haha. i love that phrase.


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## diemodern (Mar 17, 2005)

When doing work for small bidnesses and ma and pa shops ... a couple of us came together with this way of costing out projects:

Initial design $250
Each main section page $75/$100 (based on content)
Subsquent template pages within section $25/$50 (based on content)

Most (maybe I shouldn't say most, but alot of) small businesses aren't willing or can't afford to dish out lots of money ... plus - this is the piss off - they don't see the value in the work - like web design is not a REAL job. 

The best is when family friends or relatives need a big design job, and you quote them on it. 'Oooh that's too much ... but I thought you liked designing?'


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

I'm not in this particular business, but a freelancer in another line of business.

So, just a couple of very general points:

Small clients are indeed often the most difficult to work with, as others are suggesting. (They can be great, too; it's just that the chances of finding a bum client are higher in the small-business realm.)

$20/hour seems very low to me for any kind of skilled freelance work (don't forget you are bearing all the overhead costs and saving them all the payroll taxes -- $20/hour is not the same as a $40 K salary).

If you go for a flat rate, make sure the things it includes and does not include are very clearly understood and spelled out in writing. Otherwise, there's a risk of your client piling on more work in the belief (or hope) that it's "included" in the fee.

Be firm. Many clients who see a willingness to work for peanuts will try to halve the peanuts. 

You didn't say whether you're going to become a full-time freelancer or if this is just a little side-work in addition to your day-job. Either way, make sure you keep good paperwork on what you did and when and how much you got paid; and if it's to be full-time, take the added precaution of saving up for paying your taxes. Trust me, if you fall behind on taxes once, it gets to be a vicious circle in which you're forever struggling to catch up. 

And please don't do it under the table. As a taxpayer, I'm disgusted by people who do that, and tired of paying more because some people want something for nothing.


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## sccoaire (Feb 11, 2005)

iMatt said:


> And please don't do it under the table. As a taxpayer, I'm disgusted by people who do that, and tired of paying more because some people want something for nothing.


Okay, awesome, I get to ask something that's been bugging me for a while. I do computer repairs/upgrade/consult on the side. Some of my clients have home businesses and want an invoice, and probably deduct that on their taxes. Does this mean that I have to declare small business activities along my personal income taxes? 

I didn't make more then a thousand last year, and I do this to have extra pocket money. But I was told that I had to declare it and although I didn't pay any more taxes, I did loose quite a bit from what I usually get.


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## 2063 (Nov 9, 2003)

for me:

the standard "online business card" type site (static content), I usually say $50-$100.

Add php, dynamic content, etc. 150+

and like $15-$20 for any maintenance thereafter.

Of course, that's for artists and so on. But IF I did work for any big company (which I doubt I would want to do) I would pretty much just add zeros on to those first to prices!


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

If you're providing invoices, then your services are being written off. Now, those invoices aren't automatically submitted to the government, but all it takes is one of those clients getting audited and you could be in for a world of hurt. And of course you could get audited, either randomly or because something doesn't look right in your return.

The only way to do any under-the-table work and definitely get away with it is to leave NO paper trail.

So the short answer is yes, you have to declare it. On the bright side, with a small business on the side you'll get more write-offs; make sure you take them. And sorry to say, if the extra income ate into your usual refund, then you did indeed pay more taxes. (A refund is just the government paying back the excess from your paycheque deductions.)


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## JumboJones (Feb 21, 2001)

When I deal with smaller businesses, to do a logo, website or flyer, if they comment on how much I charge an hour, I use the following anology. You pay $75hr for your mechanic to fix your car, but not to fix your logo/website/flyer? What has a better ROI? 

Usually, they begin to see the light, I explain that there will always be someone else out there that will do it cheaper, but at what cost to you? 

You don't just have to think about the work you put into something, you also need to think about your equipment, programs, typefaces, internet connection, office rent, whatever. Too often these things are forgotten, and when it is time to get Adobe CS 2 or OS X Tiger, you can't afford the investment.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

The answer to the question "how much should you charge" has been mildly amusing for several reasons.

The first you have to know is how good of a web designer are you? I'm not talking about knowing how to use Photoshop and GoLive but of the practical site of wed design. Things such as usability, technical limitations, designing for mac and PCs, readability on the web as well a code that is a close to the standards as possible.

I'm not saying that you should be an expert a graphic design and programming but you will have to know a little of both, or a lot of one and less of the other.

The next is that you will have to talk and educate the client in the many steps that are involved to be able to get what you are worth.

I think that the per/page pricing is rather poor. Most sites are template based in the overall design and with a database back end, if you generate one or a couple hundred pages the graphic work is about the same.
You should charge for your design, if you are asked to include a logo, charge for that also. 
It's not because it's web based that it's not valid design. You will find that doing icons is time intensive and that turning your creation into HTML does take time.
If you are less of a designer, buy a template and charge for the integration.

You will find that most clients want to know what they are getting at a fixed rate.
This way they can compare value.

In bigger projects ask for a RFP and be prepared to write an SRS. 
Planning your site will take a lot of your time. Don't be afraid to make wireframe markups and show it to the client.


When it comes to clients, not everyone should be on the web, respect that and don't be afraid to tell a client his money maybe better spend elsewhere.


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## iZac (Mar 6, 2005)

Thanks for all the tips guys! I guess one of the main points that everyone seems to agree on is that how much you charge really depends on how good you are. By this, would skill be measured by how experienced you are, say, in terms of number of websites designed? Or is it more relative to technical skill, or graphical artistry? (i'm assuming a combination of both, but i wonder if one takes precedence over the other...)


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