# Covid News



## Peterweb (Mar 15, 2007)

This thread replaces the other Covid thread that was recently closed.

To avoid posts being deleted, or the thread being closed again, the moderators ask that you follow these posting suggestions. 


Post just the facts about any new information being provided on Covid and Covid vaccines. Links to the news are better than a blanket statement that can contain personal opinion about a news item. This way, the reader can make up their own mind about the news without making a reply to add their own opinion. This is where the threads get heated and off topic.


News from government announcements are OK, as long as the post does not try to put any political spin or comment on the specific government making that statement.


We all have our own opinions on anti-vaxxers and Covid deniers. No one is going to change their opinion, so please avoid any discussion on this. You can post about a valid news item, keeping in mind the first point above. No personal comments or opinions.
Thank you for your understanding. Let's all play nice.


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## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

so basically don't have an opinion and just use this as a way to relink news articles?


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## Vader101 (Oct 3, 2021)

wonderings said:


> so basically don't have an opinion and just use this as a way to relink news articles?


That is not true. You can have an opinion on information posted. We just don’t want it to turn out like the other thread and wanted a clear set of rules in place. We want people to discuss the facts of this topic, not hearsay or made up facts. As mentioned in other threads.

In the future, if you have an issue with the way we moderate this forum. You have to message us. Creating these complaint posts is not allowed on the forum. All it does it cause arguments and takes away from the topic of the thread.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Gibraltar has the highest rate of COVID vaccination of any country in the world, but waning efficacy pf the vaccine has led to a spike of transmission and infection.

"The data suggests that the drop is due to waning efficacy, rather than more contagious variants, researchers said."









Coronavirus: Gibraltar cancels Christmas events after 'exponential' rise in COVID cases linked to waning immunity


Gibraltar recorded 124 new COVID cases over the weekend.




www.newshub.co.nz


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

I’m good with keeping things factual 

In regards to Gibraltar:








Christmas Celebrations Cancelled in Most Vaccinated Area in the World


Gibraltar has administered enough shots to have vaccinated about 140 percent of its population.



www.newsweek.com







> The statement ended by highlighting the importance of maintaining normality in Gibraltar while still following the guidance.
> 
> It read: "In order to maintain the current state of relative normality in Gibraltar it is vital that the public follow the guidance of the Director of Public Health and take every reasonable precaution to reduce transmission of the virus and keep themselves and their loved ones safe."


I think it’s important to keep a perspective on this. It is already widely reported that boosters are needed. I don’t see them or us, looking at punishing lockdowns or overwhelmed hospitals, but prudent health guidelines to keep us in a general sense of normalacy and safety is a good idea as we navigate ourselves through this pandemic which isn’t completely over yet. 












Canada authorizes first COVID-19 vaccine for kids


Health Canada has authorized the first COVID-19 vaccine for children ages five to 11, giving the regulatory green light to Pfizer-BioNTech's two-dose vaccine, meaning kids across the country will soon be able to receive additional protection against the novel coronavirus. The first shipment of...




www.ctvnews.ca





I think this will make a big difference as transmission is still an issue in this age group which can affect the 12+ vaccine eligible population. But we will need to see the data after medical experts have had a chance to gather it and draw proper conclusions.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

The FDA wants 55 years to release documents related to the safety of the Pfizer vaccine.

Plaintiffs' lawyers argue that it took just 108 days to “review the responsive documents (329,000 pages) for the far more intricate task of licensing Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine.”









Wait what? FDA wants 55 years to process FOIA request over vaccine data


Freedom of Information Act requests are rarely speedy, but when a group of scientists asked the federal government to share the data it relied upon in licensing Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine, the response went beyond typical bureaucratic foot-dragging.




www.reuters.com


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Philippines to test Ivermectin as COVID drug strategy this year:






Coronavirus company news summary - Philippines to start ivermectin Covid-19 trial - Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine benefits outweigh myocarditis risk in young children, FDA study finds


The Philippines Department of Science and Technology is set to commence subject enrolment in a clinical trial of Merck’s anti-parasitic drug, ivermectin, against Covid-19 next month, CNN reported. The trial will be carried out in the quarantine centres of Ateneo de Manila University, De La Salle...




www.pharmaceutical-technology.com





"The Philippines Department of Science and Technology is set to commence subject enrolment in a clinical trial of *Merck’s* anti-parasitic drug, ivermectin, against Covid-19 next month, CNN reported. The trial will be carried out in the quarantine centres of Ateneo de Manila University, De La Salle University, University of the Philippines Diliman and Makati Science High School and is expected to enrol 1,464 asymptomatic and non-severe Covid-19 cases patients. Initial data from the trial is expected by the end of this year."


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Macfury said:


> Philippines to test Ivermectin as COVID drug strategy this year:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


from that article:


> Initial data from the trial is expected by the end of this year. In February, Merck affirmed its position that current evidence does not support the safety and efficacy of ivermectin beyond the doses and populations indicated in the regulatory agency-approved prescribing information.


It'll be interesting to see what results they get at the end of their trial, and more importantly... the peer reviews, as Merck themselves, the maker of the drug have already concluded it isn't effective.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Good to see that the Canadian government has reversed its previous error of sending the Johnson & Johnson vaccine doses it purchased out of the country before they could be administered.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/johnson-vaccine-covid-pandemic-1.6239206



Many people were waiting for an adenovirus vector vaccine that they would have willingly accepted months ago. Many of the people with this preference live in Alberta.


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## FUXL (Nov 2, 2016)

So long and farewell to all who elect to depart from ehmac. Moderators are just doing their jobs.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

eMacMan said:


> I've known for some time that the ehMac community I have so loved over the years is pretty much deceased. Healthy debate cannot be stifled. Nor should anyone take offense when their views are not shared or even contradicted by others. It was that very diversity of opinion that made ehMac what it was, and without it as @wonderings pointed out, it is no more.
> 
> Should anyone want to keep in touch via eMail, I will monitor my personal messages for a few weeks but other than that I am out of here.


Baiting and trolling are not meaningful discussion. It’s about time we ended that kind of uncivility. Put another way, if one can’t say something pleasant or at least not confrontational, maybe it’s not worth saying. I imagine you know what I mean. 

Nearly two years into Covid, it feels like we’re making progress. I sincerely hope we can reduce the transmission enough that life can go back to a reasonable type of normal again in the spring.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

FUXL said:


> So long and farewell to all who elect to depart from ehmac. Moderators are just doing their jobs.


Exactement, as the French would say.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Don't hold your breath on back to normal.









Austria to go into full lockdown as Covid surges


As well as Monday's lockdown, the chancellor says vaccinations will be compulsory from February.



www.bbc.com





.......

Opinions without a basis in fact are a waste of electrons. Peddling the same outdated memes with disinformation as a basis just gets tiresome....not to mention wrong.
In a covid world people die as a result of disinformation.

There are not "two sides" to every issue nor are there "alternative facts". ☕


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

MacDoc said:


> Don't hold your breath on back to normal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We have a ways to go before 'normal'. It would be nice to avoid the punishing lockdowns, but that will depend on if the enough of the population can follow decent public health guidelines, or too many, like lemmings, insist on jumping off a cliff yelling 'freeeeeeedom!".

For now, Canadian case numbers are still lower, but are rising (Ontario saw a doubling this past week) but this can change quicker than we think. As long as hospitalization numbers stay low: Tracking every case of COVID-19 in Canada

Because it's the growing health crisis with untold numbers of Canadians who are going to lose their lives because of the numbers of unvaccinated ended up in hospital: 'I won't be here next year': Canadians robbed of life by delayed diagnoses amid pandemic


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## Vader101 (Oct 3, 2021)

This is like déjà vu with the other COVID thread. I had to remove multiple argumentative posts. I’m not saying you can’t disagree, it’s impossible for everyone to always agree with each other. We all have our own opinions. Just please keep it civil.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

MacDoc said:


> Don't hold your breath on back to normal.



+1!!!
Possibly at least another year or two before we even get close. 😔


- Patrick
=======


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

pm-r said:


> +1!!!
> Possibly at least another year or two before we even get close.
> 
> 
> ...


At contraire, mon ami. I’d say that apart from masks and QR codes, we ARE pretty much back to normal already. Even case counts and hospital numbers have dropped considerably, at least here in Alberta. With a little common sense we should have a pretty good winter.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Wishful thinking ....Europe thought it was too.....


> *Europe is once again "at the epicentre" of the Covid pandemic, the World Health Organization (WHO) has warned, as cases soar across the continent.*
> At a press conference WHO Europe head Hans Kluge said the continent could* see half a million more deaths by February.*





https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59160525


That's a war level of deaths.

In Cairns we've been normal for nearly the entire pandemic with the exception of one 3 day lockdown due to one community case caught from a pilot.
There have only been 7 deaths in all of Queensland and none in the Cairns area. No restrictions at all locally except mandatory QR tracing...no sign in --- no service.
That's the new normal and no where in Canada is approaching that.

This is a deadly virus - vaccinated even and I'm really nervous about travel opening up again next month here.
We've already made plans to limit any, even local, trips if anything shows up in the community.
I'll still ride a few times a week but only to my picnic spots with a packed lunch.

This virus is too contagious and too randomly deadly at any age and any vaccine status tho the latter reduces the risk of a serious case ...it's still there. I'm far more concerned now than I was last January. My only nervous period was coming back from Chile on a packed plane ( all with masks )








and coming through LAX on the way here. Fortunately the plane and the airport were empty.
The plane to New Zealand was pretty full as well but masks everywhere. 2 week quarantine and 4 tests made sure I was clear ....
However that was before delta....different now and far from over.

I got way too clear an idea of what covid feels like at 15,000' in Chile at permanent snow level.
Even at 12,000' in Putre I could only sleep on my stomach. No thanks


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

I’m in the middle. We aren’t back to normal, and we won’t be likely for another year. Possibly longer but I’m not sure about that. But, we aren’t where we were with stay at home orders and high death rates. 

I think the trouble is with the unvaccinated right now. Transmission still occurs among the vaccinated but at significantly lower rates, and from what we understand hospitalization is very low among the vaccinated, predominately the vulnerable, much like the flu. I think much of the efforts to keep the unvaccinated from higher risks situations is likely to try and keep the hospitalization rates low, because we already have a looming health crisis among those who have not had proper medical tests and care for the last couple years. Filling our hospitals with the unvaccinated healthier younger patients is only going to make this much worse. It is not about keeping the vaccinated safe. But we often hear that this is the reason. It’s not.

I didn’t include a link on this, but what I’m saying is based on facts from the majority of medical experts. Vaccination rates need to get above 90% fully vaccinated, the entire population not just the ‘eligible’. That’s when our path to normalacy will begin.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

operative word is "begin". And that's assuming not another variant.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Absolutely. There are a number of unknowns from here.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Case in point 








Ontario Senator Josée Forest-Niesing dies at 56 after battle with COVID-19


Forest-Niesing was fully vaccinated against COVID-19 but was considered especially vulnerable due to an autoimmune condition that had affected her lungs.




www.thestar.com




Sure she was immune compromised but she's dead despite her efforts.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

zing









Germans will be "vaccinated, cured or dead" by winter end, says health minister


Austria has gone into national lockdown while Australia and New Zeland moved to ease Covid-19 restrictions. Get the latest updates on the pandemic here.




edition.cnn.com














ICU is full of the unvaccinated – my patience with them is wearing thin | Anonymous


Most of the resources we are devoting to Covid in hospital are being spent on people who have not had jab, says an NHS consultant




www.theguardian.com


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

“Vaccinated, recovered, or dead”. I heard this as well on the news. Sobering.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

World War C









Covid: Europe region faces 700,000 more deaths by March - WHO


The World Health Organization says the regional death toll could exceed 2.2 million by 1 March.



www.bbc.com


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

This is bad



> This new variant, B.1.1.529 seems to spread very quick! In less than 2 weeks now dominates all infections following a devastating Delta wave in South Africa (Blue new variant, now at 75% of last genomes and soon to reach 100%)




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1463911571176968194


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Only if it significantly evades vaccines and antibodies from previous infections. We haven’t gotten any indication yet if this is the case yet. But if so, yeah.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

It's now elevated to variant of concern, given the name Omicron. Many countries including now Canada have banned travel from those countries (SA, etc) but we all know how well banning travel works. 

Canada bans travellers from southern Africa as concerns mount over coronavirus variant



https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-59426277



Let's hope for the best. I was hoping that more mutations would weaken this virus to something less lethal and overwhelming to our hospital systems so we can continue opening up but time will tell.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

**** - this new variant - megaton hole in back to normal








Israel declared state of emergency and travel bans everywhere.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

or not
some good news



> It presents mild disease with symptoms being sore muscles an ..
> 
> Read more at:
> 
> ...


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Interestingly enough Fox News is reporting something similar.

what I’ve hoped for is a variant that is transmissible enough to be dominant but have much milder symptoms. Maybe, this is it?


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

That's the classical trajectory ...this is certainly more transmissable ...the mild symtoms were young people.

2 cases in Sydney - non-symptomatic and fully vaccinated - all and sundry associated with flight under quarantine.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Initial news from South Africa is that the new variant is much weaker than the frightened have suggested. Lots of mutations tend to destabilize viruses — more transmissible, less dangerous. Caution is certainly important, but alarm seems out of place:


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Yes We already posted this. I don’t see many ‘frightened’, though I do see an abundance of caution being exercised. I see that as smart. Certainly the news media is simply doing what it does best…

I wouldn’t have characterized world leaders closing their borders to China initially as ‘frightened’, I don’t think it’s helpful to frame things in this fashion.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

If you are not "frightened" of covid by now you are seriously deluded. Take a hike up to 15,000' and see how you feel. 

*5 Things Everyone Should Know About the Coronavirus ...*
https://www.yalemedicine.org › 2019-novel-coronavirus

6 days ago — COVID-19 also has led to* serious illness and even death in younger and middle-aged adults who are otherwise healthy.*


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

I really hope we don’t have to close the schools again. Teaching online is BORING. And futile for many.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

My sense is we may see a mild tightening of restrictions as we go through this winter, unless we see something serious of course, but my hope is this new variant turns out to be nothing we need to change much over.

We’ll see I guess.

I’m teaching in person but fully masked and only with fully vaxxed students.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I'm not so frightened that i would compare the latest variant to a nuclear weapon. "Mild" seems to be the descriptor.



MacDoc said:


> If you are not "frightened" of covid by now you are seriously deluded. Take a hike up to 15,000' and see how you feel.
> 
> *5 Things Everyone Should Know About the Coronavirus ...*
> https://www.yalemedicine.org › 2019-novel-coronavirus
> ...


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Nothing like a bit of hyberbole to get attention ....it sure was for the travel industry already and plans to open borders.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

I don’t even remember what I posted and what got pulled anymore. I do know that this new Omicron variant could make things worse instead of better. I also suspect that it’s only one of thousands of new variants that are emerging, most of which we’ll never hear about.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

There will be tens of thousands of variants that will simply die because their mutation does not aid survival — the result of most mutations. The most successful variant would be the most transmissible and keep the host alive long enough to infect others. Hopefully Omicron is one of the variants that will be more of a pain in the butt than deadly.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I do know that this new Omicron variant could make things worse instead of better. I also suspect that it’s only one of thousands of new variants that are emerging, most of which we’ll never hear about.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

They’ve reported for some time now that there have already been many many variants to date. We don’t hear about those really. It’s important to distinguish between that, and when a particular variant is labeled as a ‘variant of concern’. There are reasons for this, but it also doesn’t mean that it ends up being a terrible one. Hence the word… ‘concern’.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Macfury said:


> There will be tens of thousands of variants that will simply die because their mutation does not aid survival — the result of most mutations. The most successful variant would be the most transmissible and keep the host alive long enough to infect others. Hopefully Omicron is one of the variants that will be more of a pain in the butt than deadly.


I guess we shall see, as Marc likes to say. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

healthy, fit ...and dead.









The life and tragic death of John Eyers – a fitness fanatic who refused the vaccine


He did triathlons, bodybuilding and mountain climbing and became sceptical of the Covid jab. Then, at 42, he contracted the virus




www.theguardian.com


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

MacDoc said:


> healthy, fit ...and dead.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It can happen to anyone. I like the seatbelt analogy. Most of the time you don’t really need it. But if you get into an accident without a seatbelt, things can go really bad really quickly. Get vaxxed, people.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

So how are we making out with the Omicron variant? Is there a cause for concern?


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Not enough data yet 🍿


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Hammer comes down in Germany








Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory | CNN


Germany on Thursday announced a nationwide lockdown for the unvaccinated, as its leaders backed plans for mandatory vaccinations in the coming months.




edition.cnn.com


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Chapman's anti-vax boycott officially a failure as people buy freezer loads of ice cream


A boycott of Chapman's Ice Cream totally backfired on anti-vaxxers and the company is now feeling the love from all across Canada. In November, Cha...




www.blogto.com


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

really good science ...hope this works









U of T researchers discover a new way to take on COVID-19. Could it change the way we combat cancer?


U of T scientists have programmed special compounds called D-peptides to target COVID-19 and its variants. The research gives new hope to battling a host of other diseases.




www.thestar.com


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

ugh 








Opinion | It’s hard to look this in the eye. But COVID’s worst is coming


“This is the scariest it has been since this pandemic started,” says Dr. Beate Sander,the head of Ontario’s independent volunteer science table’s modelling group.




www.thestar.com





snip


> But I’m pretty certain that everybody in the next six to 12 weeks will be infected with Omicron, unless they’re living the life of a hermit. That’s just the reality.”


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Insane acceleration


https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/why-omicron-is-overtaking-delta-and-what-that-means-for-our-fight-against-covid-19-1.6283611


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

This is scary. Will our current crop of vaccines be sufficient? How many booster shots are we talking long term?


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Yes with a third shot ...not so much with two shots.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/why-omicron-is-overtaking-delta-and-what-that-means-for-our-fight-against-covid-19-1.6283611











Two shots may not be enough. Here’s what you need to know about booking a booster as Omicron surges in Ontario


Starting Monday, eligible people 50 and over can book a booster dose through the Ontario COVID-19 vaccination portal and at select pharmacies.




www.thestar.com


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Omicron has killed one person so far--and we don't know about co-morbidities as the UK is keeping a lid on details.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

From the Lancet:

*COVID-19: stigmatising the unvaccinated is not justified*

In the USA and Germany, high-level officials have used the term pandemic of the unvaccinated, suggesting that people who have been vaccinated are not relevant in the epidemiology of COVID-19. Officials’ use of this phrase might have encouraged one scientist to claim that “the unvaccinated threaten the vaccinated for COVID-19”.But this view is far too simple.

There is increasing evidence that vaccinated individuals continue to have a relevant role in transmission. In Massachusetts, USA, a total of 469 new COVID-19 cases were detected during various events in July, 2021, and 346 (74%) of these cases were in people who were fully or partly vaccinated, 274 (79%) of whom were symptomatic. Cycle threshold values were similarly low between people who were fully vaccinated (median 22·8) and people who were unvaccinated, not fully vaccinated, or whose vaccination status was unknown (median 21·5), indicating a high viral load even among people who were fully vaccinated.

In the USA, a total of 10 262 COVID-19 cases were reported in vaccinated people by April 30, 2021, of whom 2725 (26·6%) were asymptomatic, 995 (9·7%) were hospitalised, and 160 (1·6%) died.

In Germany, 55·4% of symptomatic COVID-19 cases in patients aged 60 years or older were in fully vaccinated individuals and this proportion is increasing each week. In Münster, Germany, new cases of COVID-19 occurred in at least 85 (22%) of 380 people who were fully vaccinated or who had recovered from COVID-19 and who attended a nightclub.

People who are vaccinated have a lower risk of severe disease but are still a relevant part of the pandemic. It is therefore wrong and dangerous to speak of a pandemic of the unvaccinated. Historically, both the USA and Germany have engendered negative experiences by stigmatising parts of the population for their skin colour or religion. I call on high-level officials and scientists to stop the inappropriate stigmatisation of unvaccinated people, who include our patients, colleagues, and other fellow citizens, and to put extra effort into bringing society together.









COVID-19: stigmatising the unvaccinated is not justified


In the USA and Germany, high-level officials have used the term pandemic of the unvaccinated, suggesting that people who have been vaccinated are not relevant in the epidemiology of COVID-19. Officials’ use of this phrase might have encouraged one scientist to claim that “the unvaccinated...



www.thelancet.com


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Nice to see you still around, Macfury.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

too perfect


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

From a contributor on another forum:

Well sure, doctors and virologists and biologists and geneticists and epidemiologists say to get the vaccine, but the guy I sat behind in 10 grade biology until he flunked out on his way to a GED posted a facebook meme of Dr. Fauci with a photocopied Hitler mustache so now I don’t know what to believe.


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

the new recent news of liberal restrictions has brought me home.. so angry, that I have to possibly quarantine again .. 
been traveling the US doing Managed Services for clients, came home to beat the quarantine rules.. but i have been researching that Truckers, IT and Communications maybe exempt.. if so I may start up again jet off to the US.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Your government masters are more afraid of COVID than you are! Happening everywhere.



macintosh doctor said:


> the new recent news of liberal restrictions has brought me home.. so angry, that I have to possibly quarantine again ..
> been traveling the US doing Managed Services for clients, came home to beat the quarantine rules.. but i have been researching that Truckers, IT and Communications maybe exempt.. if so I may start up again jet off to the US.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Wonder if any anti-vaxxers will listen

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/cor...xed-and-unvaccinated/3468742/?utm_source=digg


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## Vader101 (Oct 3, 2021)

MacDoc said:


> Wonder if any anti-vaxxers will listen
> 
> https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/cor...xed-and-unvaccinated/3468742/?utm_source=digg


I really doubt they will. They will probably call it fake news.


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

Macfury said:


> Your government masters are more afraid of COVID than you are! Happening everywhere.


it is more about controlling the masses and making sure they will not succeed, they are not scared of covid.. they are more scared of people who are continuing life as usually and succeeding


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Sure - love the conspiracy cranks living in a wishful universe  

Fat lady ain't even tuning up  








The Covid-19 case surge is altering daily life across the US. Things will likely get worse, experts warn | CNN


The US is ringing in the new year amid a Covid-19 surge experts warn is exploding at unprecedented speed and could alter daily life for many Americans during the first month of 2022.




edition.cnn.com


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

candidate for the first 2022 Darwin award...hopefully he didn't procreate.









Man Lights Himself on Fire After Rant Against Vaccine Mandates


"It was on purpose. He was screaming about mandates. He was screaming 'no vax ID,'" said a witness.




www.newsweek.com


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

MacDoc said:


> candidate for the first 2022 Darwin award...hopefully he didn't procreate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The man was mentally ill and committed suicide. This has nothing to do with the Darwin awards.


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## Vader101 (Oct 3, 2021)

There is a new variant coming out of France. Hopefully this isn’t worse than Omicron.


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## Peterweb (Mar 15, 2007)

Vader101 said:


> There is a new variant coming out of France. Hopefully this isn’t worse than Omicron.


Looks like we could be playing Wack-a-mole for some time to come.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Vader101 said:


> There is a new variant coming out of France. Hopefully this isn’t worse than Omicron.



Actually I was antipating on reading a punch line... oh well... maybe next time...  😇


- Patrick
=======


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Canadians behaving badly....now going to pay for it. 









https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/sunwing-cancun-flight-1.6304854
Mentally ill and antivax ... some correlation there.


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## Vader101 (Oct 3, 2021)

MacDoc said:


> Canadians behaving badly....now going to pay for it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It’s people like these that are causing the pandemic to continue way too long.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Iinsane issues with Quebec Health care.



> Dubé said about 20,000 health-care workers are off the job because they have been infected with the virus.





> The institute estimates 3,000 regular hospital beds and another 400 intensive care beds will be needed.





https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/hospitals-quebec-overwhelmed-1.6306509


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Australia is really breaking records with the latest case numbers, MacDoc — 78,000 cases the other day, 72,000 the day before. It appears to be leading the world in cases/population. Any reasons you can see for this, MacDoc?


----------



## Peterweb (Mar 15, 2007)

And staying with Australia. Novak Djokovic seems to be causing an international situation around the Australian Open tennis tournament. He may be a good tennis player, but he is not above the laws of international travel.



https://www.cbc.ca/sports/tennis/novak-djokovic-australian-open-detention-deportation-1.6307064


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Macfury said:


> Australia is really breaking records with the latest case numbers, MacDoc — 78,000 cases the other day, 72,000 the day before. It appears to be leading the world in cases/population. Any reasons you can see for this, MacDoc?


My guess is that they were so efficient with their lockdowns that a much smaller number of people than average have been vaccinated.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Currently, 91.9% of people over age 16 are double vaccinated: very high numbers.









Vaccination numbers and statistics


This page contains data about Australia's COVID-19 vaccine rollout. We update this page every day with the latest information.




www.health.gov.au









Freddie_Biff said:


> My guess is that they were so efficient with their lockdowns that a much smaller number of people than average have been vaccinated.


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Macfury said:


> Currently, 91.9% of people over age 16 are double vaccinated: very high numbers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That’s quite an improvement then. Last I had heard a few months ago it was like 16%. Perhaps MacDoc can give us the goods.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

MacDoc said:


> Mentally ill and antivax ... some correlation there.



+1!!! *100%.

*
- Patrick
=======


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Australia saw another 100,000 cases the other day. The country's numbers are now about the same as those who did not institute severe lockdown requirements.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Oh bull****. Just more lying propaganda. You should be ashamed.

Our total deaths in Queensland is now *10*. ( pop 5 mil)
vs Alberta ( pop 4.3 mil ) deaths *3338* 50% more than all of Australia

Total deaths for Australia is *2300. 25 mil pop*

Total deaths for Ontario *10,398 - 15mil pop*

Total deaths for Canada *30,788. 38 mil pop*

In Toronto, as of Jan. 6: 2,908 confirmed and probable new cases and 12 new deaths, for a total of 240,405 cases and *3,763 deaths, 5 mil pop

So Toronto alone has more deaths than all of Australia which has 5 x the population*
Good way to flaunt your ignorance MF 

Sweden didn't lock down early ...*pop 10 mil...deaths 15,337.*


----------



## Vader101 (Oct 3, 2021)

Macfury said:


> Australia saw another 100,000 cases the other day. The country's numbers are now about the same as those who did not institute severe lockdown requirements.


Please post your sources before you make blanket statements like this. I looked up the case numbers and they don’t even come close to what you are referring to. Did you just pull this number out of a hat?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

MacDoc said:


> Oh bull****. Just more lying propaganda. You should be ashamed.


MacDoc, I was specifically referring to cases, not deaths. Australia is being hammered with cases, but lucky to be flattened by Omicron and no earlier variant.



Vader101 said:


> Please post your sources before you make blanket statements like this. I looked up the case numbers and they don’t even come close to what you are referring to. Did you just pull this number out of a hat?


Vader, I get my sources from the Government of Australia. I have no idea which hat you're looking under:

72,000 new cases in the past 24 hours:









Coronavirus (COVID-19) case numbers and statistics


This page provides updates about the current situation, latest case numbers and related information. It is updated every day by 9 pm AEST and reflects the previous 24 hours.




www.health.gov.au





The day before:

*Australia’s Daily Covid Cases Surpass 100,000 for First Time*




__





Bloomberg - Are you a robot?






www.bloomberg.com





Queensland just saw 18,000 new cases in one day:









COVID-19 update


Recent COVID-19 changes in Queensland




www.qld.gov.au


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I don't really care what you were referring to as deaths are the only measurement. You can be a slimy as you want, you are not fooling anyone.
This is a new form of Covid, more infectious, less fatal and unfortunately Australia decided to open up in the face of it tho Queensland is holding the bar to a degree.

22 Currently in ICU in Queensland - one third of the case load in smaller Alberta

Unvaxxed are a burden on healthcare systems everywhere. Some will get tired of not being able to go out.


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

I think I’ll go with MacDoc’s stats since he actually lives there.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

This new form is as infectious as measles which means insanely so. Fully vaxxed is not a perfect infection barrier, masks and fully vaxxed helps plus contact tracing all of which are in place here. Risk of serious illness is much higher in the unvaxxed. Testing load is becoming a problem with the higher case loads.

Right now we are under mild restrictions - distancing, masks and enforced contact tracing....enforced by the venues and by the police for venue compliance.
No vax certificate...no service.

We have our share of indiots tho....we also have a big number pissed off at anti-vaxxers. Aus was very slow off the mark to get vaccinated as there was so few cases....we've mostly caught up......then this came along. 

Schooling has been moved two weeks forward.








Queensland's school start delayed by two weeks as state records 18,000 new COVID-19 cases


Queensland records 18,000 new cases of COVID-19, with 402 people in hospital, including 22 people in ICU, with five on ventilators. Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk also announced changes to the return-to-school date for the state's primary and high school students.




www.abc.net.au


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Fell free to talk about COVID-19 deaths in Australia. I'm specifically and obviously referring to cases as reported by the government of Australia.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

You made misleading claims and were slapped down for it. Nothing new there.

Australian policies, which you are clearly dissing, have kept the deaths of citizens exceptionally low. So STFU about what you clearly know nothing about.
Your government's policies in Alberta have killed citizens unnecessarily.

You might as well talked about cases of the common cold or flu for any relevance caseloads has to this variant. ☕


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I backed up every one of my numbers for new case statistics with sources from the government of Australia and the government of Queensland. You may want to talk about fatalities, but there is nothing misleading in what I posted.



MacDoc said:


> You made misleading claims and were slapped down for it. Nothing new there.
> 
> You might as well talked about cases of the common cold or flu for any relevance it had. ☕


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Macfury said:


> I backed up every one of my numbers for new case statistics with sources from the government of Australia and the government of Queensland. You may want to talk about fatalities, but there is nothing misleading in what I posted.


are you really that obtuse to try and sell that....?.

You tried and failed to compare Australia's successful policies at reducing the death toll to "others" which did not implement strict control ie lockdowns. You imply that Australia's policies didn't matter, don't matter since they have "similar case numbers" to some *others* unspecified....the others - like Alberta in particular failed proctect their citizenry as well as Australia's stricter policies have done. Alberta could have....it didn't.
They failed, you failed in your puerile attempt at criticism to further your transparent and odius agenda. As ever you forget the responsibility portion of the equation included in your "rights"
...move on.

Meanwhile









Early Data Hints at Omicron’s Potential Toll Across America


In the cities that were among the first to experience rapid rises in Covid cases due to Omicron, serious outcomes including I.C.U. stays and deaths are following case curves upward.



www.nytimes.com


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I talked about Australia's policies to control caseloads, which were quite successful. However, at this point Australia's caseload (not fatality) numbers are biting back with a huge vengeance when compared to the total population. Australia's epidemiologists will be wondering why the country is suddenly so susceptible and I will turn to them for answers.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Bafflegab...the country is not "more susceptible" ...the virus is more contagious....wiggle all you want.


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

If you care about numbers - Edmonton Catholic and Public have over 1100 absences of school staff. And that’s on the first day back.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Omicron can transmit without symptoms showing .


> You can transmit COVID at a gathering before displaying symptoms.(Supplied: Pixabay)
> 
> According to the CDC, most cases of transmission occur early in a person's infection, in the one or two days before the onset of symptoms, and in the two or three days afterwards.











What counts as a close contact? When am I most infectious with COVID? We answer your questions


When are you most infectious? How long does an Omicron infection last? Here are some of our audience's top questions answered.




www.abc.net.au


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

hehe

'Vaccine Appointments QUADRUPLE In Quebec After Government Announces Requirement For Liquor and Cannabis Stores'


> Public health officials have grappled with the best strategies to convince their people to get vaccinated for Covid-19 for over a year of this pandemic, but Quebec’s government may have found the solution: cut off your citizens’ supply of booze and weed if they don’t get vaccinated.
> 
> Appointments for first shots of the vaccines quadrupled from 1,500 per day to 6,000 per day just a few hours after Quebec Health Minister Christian Dubé announced that starting on Jan. 18, proof of vaccination would be required to enter Société des alcools du Québec and Société québécoise du cannabis stores, the state-run liquor stores and cannabis dispensaries.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Unvaccinated Quebecers will have to pay a health tax, Legault says
Unvaccinated Quebecers without medical exemptions will have to pay if they don't get 1st dose soon

Verity Stevenson <https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/author/verity-stevenson-1.4288730>, Isaac Olson <https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/author/isaac-olson-1.4696356> · CBC News · Posted: Jan 11, 2022 1:39 PM ET


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

MacDoc said:


> Unvaccinated Quebecers will have to pay a health tax, Legault says
> Unvaccinated Quebecers without medical exemptions will have to pay if they don't get 1st dose soon
> 
> Verity Stevenson /www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/author/verity-stevenson-1.4288730[/URL]>, Isaac Olson /www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/author/isaac-olson-1.4696356[/URL]> · CBC News · Posted: Jan 11, 2022 1:39 PM ET


Yes I heard about this. I’m all for persuading people to get with the vaccine program but this just seems a tad…draconian. If vaccines were absolutely foolproof and without any problems, that would be one thing. This doesn’t feel right. 

And what’s to come next? Taxes on slurpees and chocolate bars?


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Freddie_Biff said:


> Yes I heard about this. I’m all for persuading people to get with the vaccine program but this just seems a tad…draconian. If vaccines were absolutely foolproof and without any problems, that would be one thing. This doesn’t feel right.
> 
> And what’s to come next? Taxes on slurpees and chocolate bars?


Agred. When prominent people who are triple-vaxxed are reporting cases of COVID, you need to dial down the rhetoric about forcing people to take the shot. It's not a panacea,


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

It is for the hospitals.

66% of the hospital patients in intensive care in London UK are unvaccinated. No dialing down needed.









Nearly 2 thirds of people in London hospitals with Covid are unvaccinated


London has the highest proportion of unvaccinated people in Intensive Care Units




www.mylondon.news







> "According to the latest ranking of symptoms reported on the Zoe app by contributors who have tested positive in the last few weeks. We’re seeing the following top five.
> 
> 
> Runny nose - 73 per cent [of infected people reported]
> ...


We have dottor in law hubby with Covid ( Qantas pilot ) and she and her co-director are in isolation tho they both can work from home.
Getting too close . Murdering supply chain which we are at the far end of. Coles the other day...not every department was this sparse but all had significant gaps ...and yeah - rationed toilet paper  Think national chain ..medium sized Loblaws.









Border controls are being loosened and testing times reduced to keep the workforce in place.
Since 90% are double vaxxed or more.....the balance of a weaker version for those vaxxed this makes sense.
You reallly don't want to be unvaxxed here.

Line of the day :"If there's one thing out there more contagious than COVID, it's stupid," Colbert quipped.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

realllllly don't



> The extremely popular Premier of Western Australia, whose border closures have meant his state has virtually no covid, has doubled down on his attack on the unvaccinated:
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-13/ ... /100754194
> 
> ...


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Australian cases are going through the roof —150,000 in a single day (January 13), pretty much leading the world in new cases. Some of this may be due to latent test results, but more than 600,000 in a week. It may be that Australians isolated themselves from Delta but are now more susceptible to Omicron.





__





Loading…






covidlive.com.au


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Oh FS stop with your crap. EVERYONE is susceptible to Omi. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Some tests are being double counted as well









Some COVID cases being counted twice in NSW due to teething issues with RAT reporting


A leading epidemiologist says the COVID case numbers are "messy" and making modelling difficult as NSW Health concedes teething problems with the rapid test reporting system mean some people may have been counted twice.




www.abc.net.au





Australia tests everyone all the time ...of course the cases are high ...*the only thing that matters is hospitalization and ICU/Ventilation.*










New York city alone



> About 5,900 patients are hospitalized with Covid-19 across New York City, 52% higher than last winter’s peak of nearly 3,900 reached on Feb. 8, state data through Wednesday shows. *The 666 patients currently in ICUs with Covid*, however, remain below last winter’s high mark of 773.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Everyone is suceptible to Omicron, but Australia, with a population of just 26 million, has been in the top 10 total new cases for a solid week, beating out countries with many times it population. We need to understand why Australia has become more susceptible than they are.


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## Peterweb (Mar 15, 2007)

Statistics, statistics. One can quote statistics for a given vehicle comparison using horsepower or fuel economy. Both are accurate for the vehicle, but buyers are usually more interested in one or the other. The same can be said here about the covid numbers being quoted. They are both accurate for what they are reporting. And it seems different readers focus on one or the other. It does not make either set of numbers more or less important. Especially when the one page in a link given has the information that both participants here have quoted.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Yes, my interest is why Australia is leading the world, per capita, in new cases day after day. If it happened for just a day or two, it would be an anomaly. Something else is happening here to double the total number of cases in a single week. 

I acknowledge that deaths have been lower than in some other countries.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Because we test a lot FFS ....move on
.....You have not presented one shred of evidence for your assertions of "leads the world" despite the harping on it ....
And in case you forgot in your short attention span ...*.it is ICU and intubation that counts. Keeping citizens from deaths.*

A reminder ..2,522 deaths in total since Day 1.* 97 deaths per million* ...bettered only by *NZ with 10.5 *for first world nations ...both countries with high testing rates and record keeping.
*Canada sits at 825.16 death per million* and the *US at 2,554.67* deaths per million.









COVID-19 deaths per capita by country | Statista


COVID deaths worldwide were highest in Peru, topping a list that compares deaths per million in 209 countries worldwide.




www.statista.com





Our tight controls have hit supply chain and labour shortage more and come hell or high water the powers that be have decided that is where to focus ...keeping people working.









Calling Omicron ‘Mild’ Is Wishful Thinking


We are far past the point of hoping that this variant will spare us.




www.theatlantic.com


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

This is what I mean by Australia leading the world. Here are today's COVID world case reports. Australia has been in the top 10 for days. Today it is number 6. The US has a population more than 13 times higher, France almost three times higher, India 50 times higher, Italy more than twice as high, Spain twice as high. Per capita, Australia tops them all.










I am well aware that ICU cases and deaths are far lower in Australia. This would be the third time I've acknowledged that.


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## unblocktheplanet (Feb 5, 2008)

I'm going to be 72 in April, with autoimmune conditions. Wife & I have barely left the house since April 17, 2020...except to get vaccinated. (Manitoba Mennonite neighbours have been shopping all our groceries.) 

When we had the chance for Moderna boosters in December, we jumped. Everybody here in Thailand double-masks. This is field-burning season--we were masking before Covid!

15 days after Moderna, there were a few items I needed to buy, too specific for neighbours. So I took my first quick half-hour cruise through a very uncrowded shopping mall. Double-masked, alcohol gel, ditched the clothers, showered, washed hair.

Four days later tested positive by ATK, confirmed by second test. US FDA has just banned RT-PCR testing as unreliable (as stated by their Nobel Prize investor, the late scientist Kary Mullis) for assessing the presence of disease. Here, a positive PCR gets you 14 days of hospital at your own expence!

Heavy sore throat, dry cough, very chesty but dry for six days. No fever or loss of smell & taste. Did Moderna save my bacon? Wife was unaffected.

Vax is no panacea. My J&J scientist son says we're all going to catch it. But simple sanitary procedures help. Just do it.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Yep - we all are likely but yeah the Moderna almost certainly saved a serious outcome like this



> *The mostly unvaccinated patients overwhelming an Ontario ICU*
> 
> Mostly unvaccinated patients are overwhelming the ICU at a Sarnia, Ont., hospital and some will head home with a new perspective on COVID-19, the vaccine and life.







__





Loading…






www.cbc.ca


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

I have been traveling so much, the worst part of the trip is being fleeced $200 USD for PCR tests.. while antigens are free world wide.. so i have been thinking rather than roaming the streets of the US looking for rapid health centre, which have gotten the tests wrong in the past.. i would buy switch health kits and do it in the safety and comfort of my hotel room.. but now the CSBA will not recognize them as safe. CityNews


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

MacDoc said:


> Yep - we all are likely but yeah the Moderna almost certainly saved a serious outcome like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well here are the Ontario charts and numbers from yesterday. Jabbed lead slightly in ICU with another 136 undefined. Given Ontario's history of fudging data it's a pretty safe bet that most if not all of those 136 are fully jabbed.

More interestingly jabbed are the overwhelming majority of positive testing non ICU patients.

In all cases it should be noted that there is a high probability that Covid has nothing to do with the reason the patient is hospitalized. It merely indicates that someone who was admitted also tested positive.


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## Vader101 (Oct 3, 2021)

Hopefully the following news article is true

As data pours in from around the word, it’s clear Omicron is ending the pandemic


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Omicron is a true vaccinator, imparting the natural immunity that these partially effective shots could never equal.


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## Vader101 (Oct 3, 2021)

Macfury said:


> Omicron is a true vaccinator, imparting the natural immunity that these partially effective shots could never equal.


They still don’t know for sure if you get Omicron that you will have a natural immunity against getting COVID in the future. There hasn’t been enough studies on that yet.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> Omicron is a true vaccinator, imparting the natural immunity that these partially effective shots could never equal.


as usual you know nothing ....


> Compared to other variants, omicron may pose an increased risk of reinfection





> "Therefore, infection with Omicron will provide the strongest protection against [reinfection with] Omicron —* but also weaker protection against other variants*."











It happened, you got COVID. Is immunity the consolation prize?


Omicron forced us to confront the reality that recovering from COVID-19 doesn’t mean lifelong immunity to the disease. But there is some good news for people who have recently had the virus.




www.abc.net.au





Vaccinations work ...period....across a wider spectrum 



> *Natural immunity* is the antibody protection your body creates against a germ once you’ve been infected with it. Natural immunity varies according to the person and the germ. For example, people who have had the measles are not likely to get it again, but this is not the case for every disease. A mild case of an illness may not result in strong natural immunity.* New studies show that natural immunity to the coronavirus weakens (wanes) over time, and does so faster than immunity provided by COVID-19 vaccination.*











COVID Natural Immunity: What You Need to Know


Even if you’ve already had COVID-19, getting a coronavirus vaccine is recommended. These are the things you need to know about COVID natural immunity.




www.hopkinsmedicine.org





That's why attempts at a plasma vaccine approach simply failed.



> We are very confident that convalescent plasma has no benefits for the treatment of people with moderate to severe COVID-19.











Is plasma from people who have recovered from COVID-19 an effective treatment for people with COVID-19?







www.cochrane.org





But keep spreading disinformation ...nothing new there.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Vaccinations work... but on a very minimal range of issues. Not catching, not transmission, but only on mitigating symptoms. This is far less than they were advertised to offer. You can't vaccinate yourself out of an airborne pandemic, especially with drugs as ineffective as this, unless you can innocculate everyone on earth simultaneously within a 30-day window.

Regardless, Omicron will spread so fast that it will perform the experiment for us in real time. I noticed that Australia has pretty much led the world in COVID infections for the past four days for a country of its size: 339,000 cases. Australia has high vaccine compliance (92%) so it remains an unusual case:









Australia COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer


Australia Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.




www.worldometers.info


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Some positive news for once 



> *Clinical trial shows common drug heparin can be used to improve COVID-19 symptoms*
> 
> By Niki Burnside
> Posted 9h ago9 hours ago, updated 5h ago











Inhaling heparin 'could have a major impact in our fight against COVID'


Research from the Australian National University and Kings College in London shows the common and widely available blood-thinning drug heparin improves symptoms and limits lung damage when inhaled by COVID-19 patients.




www.abc.net.au





Cheap and effective - really valuable for less wealthy nations and in place already for other illnesses. :cheers:


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

A good article by Sportswriter Paul Klee of the Gazette Telegraph. He and I share a general dislike of all politicians.
The Gazette likes to drop things behind a paywall so if you have any trouble accessing, PM me and I will attach a pdf of the article to the reply.




__





Loading…






gazette.com





BTW most of the links embedded in the article are worth following.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

eMacMan said:


> A good article by Sportswriter Paul Klee of the Gazette Telegraph. He and I share a general dislike of all politicians.
> The Gazette likes to drop things behind a paywall so if you have any trouble accessing, PM me and I will attach a pdf of the article to the reply.
> 
> 
> ...


Seems a little ridiculous. Sure, many healthy people are hardly affected by Covid, but not always. Some healthy people get very sick. Some healthy people get long Covid. Some healthy people die, including children. And you have no which one you’re going to be. Stop drinking the Koolaid, dude.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Very good article on the bio-ethics of treating the unvaxxed





__





Loading…






www.cbc.ca





Near family caught Omi...recovered and back to work..
So far partner and I


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

A sports writer who gets his income there is a reliable source now ??? Koolaid indeed.

Even a casual google search brings up dozens of elite and college athetes with consequences from acquiring Covid

Here's some examples
snip


> Across multiple leagues, stories of athletes diagnosed with Covid have circulated, and everyone’s recovery has been different. Often, the road back to 100 percent isn’t a straight line.
> 
> From struggles with conditioning to discovering after-effects that threaten to derail promising young careers, Covid has wreaked havoc on athletes amateur, professional, and otherwise. These are the struggles certain athletes have had coming back from a positive test.











How elite athletes have struggled with the long-term effects of Covid


For some athletes, the road back to 100 percent isn’t a straight line.




www.sbnation.com





and


> Marco Rossi was looking forward to his rookie season in the National Hockey League. The 19-year-old prospect was the top point scorer among major junior ice hockey players in the 2019–20 season. Now he was set to impress with the Minnesota Wild. The team had selected Rossi ninth overall in the 2020 league draft ahead of the pandemic-shortened season of the North American league that kicked off in January. However, Rossi’s professional debut was not to be.
> 
> At pre-season training camp, Rossi failed his medical examination. A routine cardiac test revealed inflammation around the heart muscles, a condition known as myocarditis. If Rossi continued to skate, his heart might suddenly stop beating, and he could die. Although he felt well, it seemed that Rossi—or at least his heart—had not yet fully recovered from COVID-19, which he had contracted two months earlier.
> 
> Rossi flew to his home town in Austria to recuperate. He would miss the entire 56-game season and subsequent play-offs. The young star was bitterly disappointed. “He worked so hard for so many months and he was ready to come out with a bang,” says Serge Payer, Rossi’s agent and a former league player. For Rossi, this “was very much unexpected”, Payer says. It also surprised many cardiologists.











COVID’s Cardiac Connection


Coronavirus infections might cause lasting harm to the heart even in those who have never had symptoms




www.scientificamerican.com


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Australia continues to be an outlier, going from about 212,000 total cases (globally low) on December 1, 2021 to more than 2,200,000 today — 2 million cases in less than two months. The country is now in the top 30 for total cases:









Australia COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer


Australia Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.




www.worldometers.info





Australia has a very high vaccination rate (92.9% over 16):









Vaccination numbers and statistics


This page contains data about Australia's COVID-19 vaccine rollout. We update this page every day with the latest information.




www.health.gov.au





So why is Omicron hitting them harder than other countries?


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

So anybody who knows at least one long haul trucker knows that there are massive convoys converging on Ottawa to protest the mandate madness and the effects on truckers. Here is how it's being portrayed in the lamestream. Even so the Kool-aid crowd still believes every word this same outlet publishes about Covid, even when it contradicts last weeks narrative. Remember it was only a few months ago that the official narrative was that the vaccine was preventing the spread of Covid?









‘It gets worse and worse every year’: Truckers rally in B.C., citing unsafe highway conditions | Globalnews.ca


Truckers say highways through the province's Interior suffer from a raft of dangerous problems, ranging from potholes to black ice to improperly or uncleared snow.




globalnews.ca


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

eMacMan said:


> So anybody who knows at least one long haul trucker knows that there are massive convoys converging on Ottawa to protest the mandate madness and the effects on truckers. Here is how it's being portrayed in the lamestream. Even so the Kool-aid crowd still believes every word this same outlet publishes about Covid, even when it contradicts last weeks narrative. Remember it was only a few months ago that the official narrative was that the vaccine was preventing the spread of Covid?


I not only remember that, I remember that many people on EhMac were upset that others did not accept the full narrative.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Macfury said:


> I not only remember that, I remember that many people on EhMac were upset that others did not accept the full narrative.


Yep generally in a rather derogatory manner unless they went for an all out personal attack. Of course those were the ones who piously claimed they wanted to keep posts respectful.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

And just waiting for this thread to get shut down in 3…2….1….


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

It's not ...move on. *Our total deaths are 3,148 deaths since day one* - care to compare ANYWHERE ....??
That's ALL that matters MF ...blather all you want.

How about freewheeling Florida


> > By any measure, Florida life seems surreal, as if everyone’s wearing blinders and trying not to notice a *disease that’s killed more than 63,000 Floridians. *That’s about twice as many deaths as in all of Canada, in a state with two-thirds our country’s population.


says it all

People are getting on Australia's case about "messing up"
*3,148 deaths since day one* and most in the last 3 weeks and we are bit bigger than Florida in pop but not much 21 mil vs 25mil

If truckers want to protest fine ...they can ...they just can't get into the bars. Too ****ing bad. Protesting when you are loopy wrong just makes for hilarity but if it makes them feel better fine.....still keeps them on the outside looking in and pretty close to job loss.
What an utterly stupid bit of mud to stake a "principle" on. 
But then AGW wasn't real either so stupidity isn't new.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I'm not interested in deaths, I'm interested in total number of cases. Neither am I saying Australia "messed up." But something unusual is happening there and the country has been a significant outlier these past two weeks. 

Would appreciate you toning down the insults.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)




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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Yes, they do have rights. Even if you don't understand their reasons for exercising them, they must be respected.


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## FUXL (Nov 2, 2016)

Sure the truckers have rights. What they don't have rights to do is threaten politicians with hanging, blocking our hospitals, or calling for an event like January 6 in the U.S. last year. Too much coverage of this separatist band of miscreants while hard working truckers are doing what needs to be done.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Exactly. Squeaky wheel gets all the media coverage it seems. Plus that sure seems like a lot of fuel being wasted for…what was the reason again? Something about freedom?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

They're not wasting it. They're using it to protest.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Exactly. Squeaky wheel gets all the media coverage it seems. Plus that sure seems like a lot of fuel being wasted for…what was the reason again? Something about freedom?


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Macfury said:


> They're not wasting it. They're using it to protest.


Like I said. Wasted. What do you think this “Karen Convoy” protest is going to accomplish exactly?


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## Vader101 (Oct 3, 2021)

Freddie_Biff said:


> Like I said. Wasted. What do you think this “Karen Convoy” protest is going to accomplish exactly?


What it is doing is bringing out all of the nut jobs across Canada. The ones that want to cause violence. Not to mentioned all of the pollution from the trucks driving across Canada. Other than that, it will accomplish absolutely nothing. They will not get the laws changed.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I think you likely don't agree with them, therefore you think their effort is a waste. If it was some sort of "Pro-Moderna" convoy, you might approve.



Vader101 said:


> What it is doing is bringing out all of the nut jobs across Canada. The ones that want to cause violence. Not to mentioned all of the pollution from the trucks driving across Canada. Other than that, it will accomplish absolutely nothing. They will not get the laws changed.


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## Vader101 (Oct 3, 2021)

Macfury said:


> I think you likely don't agree with them, therefore you think their effort is a waste. If it was some sort of "Pro-Moderna" convoy, you might approve.


You don’t know me. So how can you say what types of protests I would agree with? Any of these types of protests are a waste of time and resources. The truckers protest is a waste of time as they are in the minority of Canadian truckers who are vaccinated.

Almost 90% of Canadian truckers are vaccinated. Why should we all give in for such a a small minority that are not smart enough to get vaccinated?


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

_Moved from Bell Let's Talk thread_

What fearmongering is that? ...hardly fear mongering when 500 people a day were dying in New York City.








and it's hardly over, tho deaths are down.



> The number of Covid-19 deaths in the UK has surpassed the combined death toll of the Great Plague, the Aids pandemic and every single terror attack and war since 1945.
> 
> The UK recorded a further 1,631 deaths from coronavirus on Tuesday, taking the official tally above 100,000.


And that was a year ago......since the 50,000 more have died in the UK

And what's with _"deliberate"_ ......more conspiracy ****e?

Taking a small hearsay sample of an indigenous community that may have been successful in preventing covid taking a toll in deaths ...just as few countries have ....hardly constitutes any sort of valid conclusion to draw on the national or international scale.
☕


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I didn't say you _would_ agree with any protest. I said you _might_ agree with some protests. The resources belong to the truckers and so does their time. It's because they're in the minority that the truckers are protesting. Generally, the majority already gets its way.



Vader101 said:


> You don’t know me. So how can you say what types of protests I would agree with? Any of these types of protests are a waste of time and resources. The truckers protest is a waste of time as they are in the minority of Canadian truckers who are vaccinated.
> 
> Almost 90% of Canadian truckers are vaccinated. Why should we all give in for such a a small minority that are not smart enough to get vaccinated?


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## Vader101 (Oct 3, 2021)

Macfury said:


> Generally, the majority already gets its way.


Not with the Anti-Vaxxers. There are a lot of areas in the country where this minority are getting their own way.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

_Moved from Bell Let's Talk thread_

MacDoc, those numbers are way off when you look at the size of the population during each event.

The population of the US during the civil war was just 31 million. Equivalent deaths compared to today's population would be almost 7 million.

US population during the Spanish Flu epidemic was 99 million, so their death toll would be comparable to 2.3 million today.

The Great Plague in England killed 100,000 people in 1665, when the population of England and Wales was 5 million. Compared to today, that would be 1.3 million.

In context, these numbers are not as impressive.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Vader101 said:


> Not with the Anti-Vaxxers. There are a lot of areas in the country where this minority are getting their own way.


First off anyone who has talked to these truckers or goes beyond the lamestream as a news source understands that their protest covers a lot more territory than being forced to choose between their livelihood and their health. The core of it is a defense of the Charter of Rights and what sort of world their children and grandchildren will live in. Unlike the vax-cabal, truckers tell it like it is right down to the name, "Freedom Convoy".

Also once again I have to point out the obscene mis-use of the term 'anti-vaxxers'. A vaccine by definition used to mean man made interference to prevent the acquisition or spread of a disease. For the Covid-19 shots, the CDC had to change the definition to something that would slightly reduce symptoms, even though those who were shot can still catch and transmit the virus. Moreover this is still an experimental shot and the middle and long term portion of the testing has been effectively aborted by vaccinating the control group. Not only that but there is a concerted effort to vaccinate everyone, thereby eliminating the secondary control group. BTW The animal testing was skipped entirely rather than being run concurrently with human testing. Moreover since we have now established beyond all reasonable doubt that the shots do not prevent the spread or acquisition of Covid, how is it possible to support continued efforts to mandate them?

Thanks to Herr Mengele, The Nuremburg Code expressly forbids forcing individuals to participate in such experiments against their will. Enacting mandates that force all to participate in this experiment by denying them the right to make a living otherwise, is the reincarnation of the very evils that led to the creation of The Nuremburg Code. 

If you must label them, call those truckers 'anti-fascist', 'anti-communist', 'anti-evil' or most likely all three, but 'anti-vaxxer' is totally inappropriate.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

not to underestimate Covid still


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

I have a bad feeling about this.

Freedom Convoy plans to gridlock Ottawa until all vaccine mandates repealed


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I'm always happiest when Ottawa is gridlocked.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Freddie_Biff said:


> I have a bad feeling about this.
> 
> Freedom Convoy plans to gridlock Ottawa until all vaccine mandates repealed


Wonder of wonders. Seems the PM accidentally came within 100 yards of someone with Covid. Even though he tested negative he is following guidelines and going into hiding for 5 days. This is of course the same guy who took off to the Caribbean at the same time he was telling us peons not to have Christmas dinner with our families.

Of course 5 days won't be nearly enough as a lot of the truckers are of the long haul variety.

Kudos to the vast number of Torontonians who showed up to see that arm of the Convoy head out. Absolutely amazing given the weather conditions.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Yup, that Karen Convoy is certainly making a name for itself.


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## unblocktheplanet (Feb 5, 2008)

Vader101 said:


> Not with the Anti-Vaxxers. There are a lot of areas in the country where this minority are getting their own way.


Mostly, that's the US not Canada. That said, our public health interventions have been reactive instead of proactive, thus encouraging the current, and future, waves.

Hm, I’d sure be behind (and part of) a massive walk-in to shut down the tar sands & pipelines!

Either these truckers don’t think too far ahead or being anti-vax also means you’re a climate change denier!

There's no freedom without responsibility. Particularly if driving long-haul, they have a duty of care to not only the people with whom they come into contact elsewhere but to their families.

I'm not particularly pro-vax but it's better for public health when hospitals aren't full. Finally able to get in for a colonoscopy after two years! (V, don't say a thing!)


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## Reboot (Sep 27, 2008)

eMacMan said:


> Remember it was only a few months ago that the official narrative was that the vaccine was preventing the spread of Covid





eMacMan said:


> Here is how it's being portrayed in the lamestream. Even so the Kool-aid crowd still believes every word this same outlet publishes about Covid, even when it contradicts last weeks narrative. Remember it was only a few months ago that the official narrative was that the vaccine was preventing the spread of Covid?


 You see that’s the funny thing about science, and confusing to some, it’s not static, it is ever-changing and always self-correcting when new evidence is found. And science will admit when they were wrong because of new evidence that has arisen.

Your argument that because what they’re saying this week contradicts what they said last week tells me you don’t understand how science really works. Unfortunately you are not alone. It’s dangerous when the common man does not believe scientists and doctors that have been studying for years and years. It appears to me you are expecting science to come up with hard and fast rules and results, that is not the way science works. It never has, unfortunately nowadays a lot people, such as yourself, believe the non-experts whose opinion fits your agenda rather than the experts, and can’t respect the fact that science always changes. How do you think viruses mutate, how do you think man has evolved over the years. Because science changes and evolves.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

It's the intersection of commerce, politics and science that provides plenty of reasons for skepticism. For example, seeing the CDC letters revealed through FOIA and their deliberate subverting of well understood scientific terms such as "herd immunity" and "vaccine" in order to promote their own messaging. Or having the Pfizer-dominated FDA hold back adverse risk data on COVID injections that would normally allow people to make informed judgements (data now slowly being released as part of an FOIA request). Likewise, the admission of high-level scientists such as Dr. Fauci that they fibbed to the public in order to scare them into doing things that were not scientifically supportable. Did scientists ever really believe that two jabs of Pfizer MRNA injections would prevent someone from catching and transmitting COVID, or did they make that promise without the support of underlying data and hope it was true? There's a big difference between accumulation of new data to inform new observations and simply throwing out a message with the hopes that they might be true, then crossing your fingers.



Reboot said:


> You see that’s the funny thing about science, and confusing to some, it’s not static, it is ever-changing and always self-correcting when new evidence is found. And science will admit when they were wrong because of new evidence that has arisen.
> 
> Your argument that because what they’re saying this week contradicts what they said last week tells me you don’t understand how science really works. Unfortunately you are not alone. It’s dangerous when the common man does not believe scientists and doctors that have been studying for years and years. It appears to me you are expecting science to come up with hard and fast rules and results, that is not the way science works. It never has, unfortunately nowadays a lot people, such as yourself, believe the non-experts whose opinion fits your agenda rather than the experts, and can’t respect the fact that science always changes. How do you think viruses mutate, how do you think man has evolved over the years. Because science changes and evolves.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

MacDoc said:


> not to underestimate Covid still
> View attachment 94510


Indeed. Im unsure as to why Australia was being singled out. If one os following the science on all this. Omicron, is insanely infectious, and has a better ability to evade the 2 dose vaccine, in particular thew AstraZeneca and the JJ single dose. It has been proven now, that the booster does significantly reduces ones chances of infections. Australia, like every other nation on earth dealing with this variant, is simply experiencing the harsh reality of a super infectious variant. But I guess since you live there perhaps it's a target  Useless...

We are fast approaching the endemic stage, where we have a super infectious variant that is much milder. All the efforts now, isn't as it has been in previous waves to drastically drop infection rates, it's to slow the infection rates to reduce the impact on hospitals. Focusing merely on infection rates and posting graphs of vax/unvax numbers without further analysis merely displays a lack of any understanding on this whatsoever.

The science table here in Ontario has an interesting take, I tend to give a little more credibility to this source rather than the cherry picked stuff I see on social media by "researchers".








Ontario Dashboard - Ontario COVID-19 Science Advisory Table


NOTICE: This website is no longer updated.If you have questions about previously published Ontario COVID-19 Science Advisory Table resources, please email [email protected] Current Status in Ontario Contents Current Status in Ontario Current COVID-19 Risk in Ontario by Vaccination Status...




covid19-sciencetable.ca














Add a little bit of perspective to the topic and suddenly, you have a better picture of what's actually happening. We are now hearing that we will need to live with this virus and get back to normal. I don't know what 'normal' might mean, but I don't disagree at this point, barring any sudden lethal variants popping up.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Yesterdays Ontario Graphs. Also keep in mind that here in Alberta, Deena has admitted inflating the unjabbed numbers, by labeling those who were shot within the last 14 days as 'unvaxxed'. Amounted to about half of all the supposedly unjabbed Covid hospitalizations. No reason to think that Ontario is not using the same ruse as Alberta and many US states.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

I just posted a proper analysis. Your graphs is missing context which is what the ones I gave provides. But if one is searching for confirmation bias, I suppose…

And the reason why people who have been jabbed less than 14 days ago are considered unvaxxed is because the vaccine is not considered effective until at least 14 days -after-. So you are effectively as unprotected as the unvaccinated. Fairly rudimentary stuff.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

An interesting breakdown from Nova Scotia, yesterdays data. As I read it NS has 88 hospitalizations because of Covid. An additional 104 who were admitted for other reasons but tested positive for Covid. And another 130 who were admitted without Covid but acquired it in the hospital. IOW 88 of the 322 patients in NS hospitals with Covid are there because of Covid. For the numerically challenged that rounds off to 27%.

Right now Ontario is claiming either 3500 or 4100 in hospital with Covid depending on whether ICU is a subset or in addition to hospitalizations. They don't specify. Since they do not show a breakdown similar to NS one has to hazard a guess that at most about 1100 of those are actually there because of Covid.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

groovetube said:


> I just posted a proper analysis. Your graphs is missing context which is what the ones I gave provides. But if one is searching for confirmation bias, I suppose…
> 
> And the reason why people who have been jabbed less than 14 days ago are considered unvaxxed is because the vaccine is not considered effective until at least 14 days -after-. So you are effectively as unprotected as the unvaccinated. Fairly rudimentary stuff.


However the graphs clearly show that it is those who have been shot who are taxing the hospitals. 

Since the jab causes the body to generate the spike protein that triggers a positive test it is extremely disingenuous to label them unjabbed. It is far more likely there are in hospital because of a severe adverse reaction to the jab.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

no it does not clearly show that. The science table link is very clear. Cherry picked graphs are useless. They merely confirm someone’s bias. As I said, I trust the sources behind the science table rather than someone’s opinion on the internet.

That is why I posted those official sources, so that we can keep things factual.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

groovetube said:


> no it does not clearly show that. The science table link is very clear. Cherry picked graphs are useless. They merely confirm someone’s bias. As I said, I trust the sources behind the science table rather than someone’s opinion on the internet.
> 
> That is why I posted those official sources, so that we can keep things factual.


The Graphs came from the Ontario provincial site. If they cherry picked one then why not the other? They do clearly show that only about 1/4 of the regular hospitalizations are unjabbed, and less than half of the ICU admissions.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Because one provides context, and the other, does not. Making assumptions without proper context provides misinformation.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Admittedly the PM was dodging a question by Lisa about SNC Lavelin, but it's still a hilarious clip, especially the part where he slithers out the window.
The Simpsons have done it again!


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

And the hits just keep coming.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Who is supposedly being hit?



Freddie_Biff said:


> And the hits just keep coming.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Macfury said:


> Who is supposedly being hit?


It’s a reference to the old hit parade days.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I understand. Let me rephrase. Who do you think is the artist responsible for the "hits." It's unclear given the interchange in the previous posts.



Freddie_Biff said:


> It’s a reference to the old hit parade days.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Macfury said:


> I understand. Let me rephrase. Who do you think is the artist responsible for the "hits." It's unclear given the interchange in the previous posts.


It’s just an expression, Mf. It’s a reflection of how this place usually devolves into the same old BS back and forth. You must know this, since you’re the most argumentative one of the bunch. Let it go, Mf.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

It was pretty quiet until about a day ago.



Freddie_Biff said:


> It’s just an expression, Mf. It’s a reflection of how this place usually devolves into the same old BS back and forth. You must know this, since you’re the most argumentative one of the bunch. Let it go, Mf.


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## unblocktheplanet (Feb 5, 2008)

I would not say we are ‘fast approaching the endemic stage’. But, _just maybe_, we’re on track. We royally effed Mother Nature (with no Vaseline) in too many ways to count, esp the overburden of overpopulation, causing a cascade of disastrous results.

She may still give us a few more slaps upside the head.

We can hope those anti-vax freedom jihadis are right about vaccines & lowered fertility!

In Canada, the most sensible analyses come from Toronto epidemiologist Andrew Morris’s newsletter. Well worth the weekly read: Emails from your friendly neighbourhood infectious diseases specialist. He’s not very happy with the provincial health ministers’ responces.

I moved here because of all the pretty girls but I think we’ll be masking up & physical distancing for a very long time to come, maybe forever for some of us oldies.

As to the jabbed testing Covid+, I can’t speak to PCR but an ATK was required for my colonoscopy last week. Three weeks out from bosster Moderna, I tested negative.

Not to be trollish, anybody here have opinions on unvaxxed patients being denied organ transplants, surgeries & other hospitalisations? Dr. Morris above thinks it’s ethical. In broad terms, so do I. But we’re Canadians: we don’t let folks die on hospital sidewalks because they don’t have insurance to pay. It’s a tough call. Down South, American capitalism at its most naked greedy.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

unblocktheplanet said:


> Not to be trollish, anybody here have opinions on unvaxxed patients being denied organ transplants, surgeries & other hospitalisations? Dr. Morris above thinks it’s ethical. In broad terms, so do I. But we’re Canadians: we don’t let folks die on hospital sidewalks because they don’t have insurance to pay. It’s a tough call.


I don't think it's a tough call. Canadians pay for universal healthcare, so I do not believe it is ethical to make exceptions based on vaccination status, drug addiction, overeating, alcoholism, smoking, etc.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Drug addicts have a disease, as do alcoholics. But people who consume any of those things also pay a hefty 'sin tax', the unvaxxed don't. What Quebec proposes makes sense and has already been happening for years.

I dont agree with denying the unvaxxed healthcare in a general sense beyond covid, that's beyond what is actually being suggested. Quebec is proposing a tax on the unvaxxed since the data clearly shows they are the ones overwhelming hospitals. And it's merely a simple choice, not a disease (unless one believes stupidity to be a disease, who knows? 🤡) I know people keep sharing those graphs, but they haven't been able to move past the first level of thinking to understand the data in context. No matter how many times you try to explain it to them, so one has to assume either they refuse to understand, or they simply wish to cause frustration.

The question no one seems to want to address is, is it fair that the unvaccinated overwhelm hospitals so that many many people end up losing their lives because they cannot get life saving surgeries because they've been cancelled. I know I know, we'll see more graphs insinuating its the vaccinated. Save it. Smarter people understand the score...

Interestingly enough, nanos ran a poll, and found surprisingly really high support for the Quebec proposal, mostly above 35, but in particular, seniors.

Guess who the highest voting block is? So yeah conservatives, go ahead and support the trucker stupidity


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

If we call something a "disease" when it first requires the person to take too many drugs, too much alcohol or too much food, then we should also call unwillingness to take what some people believe is a life-saving medicine as a disease — and treat them, just as we treat alcoholics for liver disease, drug addicts for hepatitis, and the obese for coronary problems. It's disingenuous to write off one set of personal demons as "disease", but then attack others for their "choice".


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Macfury said:


> If we call something a "disease" when it first requires the person to take too many drugs, too much alcohol or too much food, then we should also call unwillingness to take what some people believe is a life-saving medicine as a disease — and treat them, just as we treat alcoholics for liver disease, drug addicts for hepatitis, and the obese for coronary problems. It's disingenuous to write off one set of personal demons as "disease", but then attack others for their "choice".


So not getting vaccinated is comparable to "personal demons". Huh, I wasn't expecting you to go there.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I'll address the question. The health care system is not fair to begin with. It's not fair when a nursing strike cost my friend's father his life or when a member of the Toronto Maple Leafs jumps to the head of the line to get an MRI. Nut the prmise of contributing to the ytem is explicit. If you pay into the system, you get the same healh care as anyone else. Changing the rules in midstream is definitely not fair.

If you asked seniors whether they should always receive priority treatment at the hospital before younger people, I would not be surprised if they supported that too.



groovetube said:


> The question no one seems to want to address is, is it fair that the unvaccinated overwhelm hospitals so that many many people end up losing their lives because they cannot get life saving surgeries because they've been cancelled.
> 
> Interestingly enough, nanos ran a poll, and found surprisingly really high support for the Quebec proposal, mostly above 35, but in particular, seniors.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

eMacMan said:


> Also standing up for the Charter of Rights, which the Kool-Aid crowd has so willingly surrendered....


It has amazed me to see how the "reactionary left" has so quickly been co-opted so that we see artists, writers, musicians, activists, union leaders and former iconoclasts actively promoting the most rigidly establishment views, become cheerleaders for large corporations, and becoming the loudest voices in actively calling for censorship and disenfranchisement of their fellow citizens. They are abandoning every notion of being the conscience of a nation and have been given nothing in exchange.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Can you give us some examples of these "rigidly establishment views, become cheerleaders for large corporations"?

Sounds like some hot air to me.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

and here comes the unsubstantiated reports of death by vaccine again.

I thought this thread was supposed to be factual. There's no evidence of all these deaths by vaccines. The problem with trying to participate in these threads, is the constant barrage of anecdotal evidence that no one can verify, but relentlessly presented as facts. 

Please post real evidence.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

eMacMan said:


> Big Pharma is as big as it gets.



Unless you guys are going to actually answer questions and present factual evidence, what are we doing here? This how things devolve into where these threads often go.

The beginning of this thread stated that it must stay factual. If it isn't going to stay true to this then this is a dead end. Sorry.

Im going to click unfollow on this thread for now. Nothing is factual any longer.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Well at least you gave it the good old college try GT. Some people like to argue for the sake of arguing. If people can’t agree on some basic facts, like who comprises the majority of ICU patients and those dying from CoVid (the unvaccinated), then there’s really not a lot to talk about. 

What do ya’ll think the “Freedom Convoy” is going to accomplish? How long will they occupy Ottawa? I see things starting to get ugly today because this crowd is not made up of intelligent people. The Terry Fox statue defacing was just a mild start. The decent truckers are busy doing their jobs and have already been vaccinated.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Freddie_Biff said:


> How long will they occupy Ottawa? I


About three weeks, I think.


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## Vader101 (Oct 3, 2021)

This thread is to post factual information. We don’t allow conspiracy theories. There are probably lots of forums that the conspiracy theorists can post their lies on. This thread is turning into the previous COVID thread that we had to shut down.


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## Vader101 (Oct 3, 2021)

I removed a bunch of non factual posts, along with their replies.


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## FUXL (Nov 2, 2016)

I think the police will be working to break up the protest today. The sooner the better. Then security forces can get to work on creating heat maps from all the cell phone data they captured over the weekend. Some unknown miscreants will become known entities.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

FUXL said:


> I think the police will be working to break up the protest today. The sooner the better. Then security forces can get to work on creating heat maps from all the cell phone data they captured over the weekend. Some unknown miscreants will become known entities.


Some are planning to be there “for months” if need be, “until their demands are met.” Something a hostage-taker would say.


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## FUXL (Nov 2, 2016)

Freddie_Biff said:


> Some are planning to be there “for months” if need be, “until their demands are met.” Something a hostage-taker would say.


There's a lot of boasting from this crowd but in Alberta words, "they're all hat'.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Deniers gonna deny. So easy to be misinformed these days, with charts and graphs to boot.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Truck off.









Marika Morris, photographed here pointing her thumb down, says she and her downtown Ottawa neighbours took to their streets to block trucks and vehicles driving through their neighbourhood Monday. To her left are Lise Lebeau and Andrea Colbert. (Reddit)
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/otta...t-residents-take-stance-block-truck-1.6335139


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

MacDoc said:


> Truck off.
> View attachment 94528
> 
> 
> ...


At least they moved eventually. These a-hole protesters absolutely do not care about what they’re putting the citizens of Ottawa through.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

End of the beginning perhaps..


> *South Africa eases most COVID restrictions, citing high population immunity*
> 
> February 1, 202212:54 PM E











South Africa eases most COVID restrictions, citing high population immunity


Up to 80% of South Africans are either vaccinated or have recovered from an infection The only vestige of COVID-19 rules are masks, which are still required in public spaces and on public transport.




www.npr.org


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

They're protesters! To quote AOC:












Freddie_Biff said:


> At least they moved eventually. These a-hole protesters absolutely do not care about what they’re putting the citizens of Ottawa through.


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Sympathy only extends so far. These guys are shooting themselves in the foot now. If they’d have protested on the weekend and gone home, they would seem more heroic. Now they just seem like squatters and arseholes.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I don't think they're looking for sympathy.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Macfury said:


> I don't think they're looking for sympathy.


pfffft ha ha ha what exactly are they looking for then? I dont think most Canadians feel much sympathy for them.

Well will you look at that. The shoe is on the other foot now. Now, protesting and terrorizing the citizens is all hunky dory now!

But somehow, the comparison between black people getting shot and killed off the streets in disturbing numbers with little justice for the murderers, to a bunch of whiny snowflakes afraid of a vaccine or wearing mask, sorry. It's rather like one of the organizers comparing it all to nazi Germany. Whenever you see someone pulling out the nazi Germany thing, imitating the demand for papers, you just know how far down the barrel they've gone.

Disgusting.

Did I hear some of the conservatives calling for the native protesters some time ago to be shot at?


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

groovetube said:


> pfffft ha ha ha what exactly are they looking for then? I dont think most Canadians feel much sympathy for them.
> 
> Well will you look at that. The shoe is on the other foot now. Now, protesting and terrorizing the citizens is all hunky dory now!
> 
> ...


Indeed. The mind boggles. Why are so many people afraid of a little jab? Was this really worth driving across the country for? These guys will accomplish nothing.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Not a jab. A jab mandate for drugs without complete adverse side affects data, which have not yet been released by the FDA under the FOIA.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Indeed. The mind boggles. Why are so many people afraid of a little jab? Was this really worth driving across the country for? These guys will accomplish nothing.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

This narrative sounds a lot like the old guys yelling at the protesting hippies in the 1960s.



groovetube said:


> pfffft ha ha ha what exactly are they looking for then? I dont think most Canadians feel much sympathy for them.
> 
> Well will you look at that. The shoe is on the other foot now. Now, protesting and terrorizing the citizens is all hunky dory now!
> 
> ...


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

What ‘narrative’? Be specific. 

I find when people don’t have a good response to someone calling out hypocrisy they use the word ‘narrative’. But what I’ve noticed, is they never ever really say what the ‘narrative’ really is beyond some vague references to some mythical left wing demons. Ie: soros, clintons, Trudeau, etc etc. it never really goes beyond this however.

I prefer a more factual discussion. Rather this lazy sort of thing that contributes little. So, as this discussion is factual Covid items, I’d like some factual posts on this ‘narrative’ you speak of.


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## FUXL (Nov 2, 2016)

Outside of the incredibly sad fact that the unmasked protesters stole food from a local soup kitchen the story that really brings it home for me is the couple who were harASSed by a miscreant who stole the rainbow standard flying from their home who also defecated on their front porch. The couple's child is afraid to go outside. Freedom my ass.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

I lived right downtown north end of centerville years ago, I have many friends who still live there, and what I’m hearing is the media is barely reporting the sheer number of of really disgusting acts happening all over downtown.

One thing I’ve seen quite a bit on social media this morning, if it’s not too off topic… the Covid mandates protestors came to Ottawa to demand Trudeau step down, and ended up getting the conservative leader possibly booted out. 

Gets more bizzare by the day.

Edit: actually booted out!! 😂


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## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

Well I live in Ottawa and it's a weird time. The protests have been a lightning rod for everyone with a covid/pandemic related grievance. But there is no goal, no leadership. It will be like the 1%'rs ...that protest that went nowhere. Fall out is the $800000 a day in policing, the disruption of traffic and local businesses. Residents living with days of constant honking.

I support a vaccine mandate. 
But at the same time I recognize the failure of leadership.

Ontario, and Canada as a whole has been successful because Canadians stood up, got in line, did their part.
The government(s) have not been proactive, given sufficient reasoning, accommodation and time for people to consider, digest and have a sober thought. They react. We react. It's what's happening.

Need to step up and start talking. What's on the horizon? 3 years in do we have to wait for things to happen still to put in place measures?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Given the failure of vaccine promises to first prevent infection and then prevent transmission is there still a point in a vax mandate? Many countries already believe there isn't.



smashedbanana said:


> What's on the horizon? 3 years in do we have to wait for things to happen still to put in place measures?


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

What failure? Multiple times you’ve accused medical experts of not telling the truth, but you haven’t explained this in greater detail.

I think the rest of us are aware that they have given estimates of a percentage of protection against infection, which as more data comes in on the new variants (first delta now omicron) these percentages are updated as more and more studies are done. But while you and some others are laser focused on some mythical promises of protection against infection, the rest of us are focused on what truly important and really, the entire point of mandates and closures, protecting our hospital systems.

So what ‘failures’, are you talking about?


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

smashedbanana said:


> Well I live in Ottawa and it's a weird time. The protests have been a lightning rod for everyone with a covid/pandemic related grievance. But there is no goal, no leadership. It will be like the 1%'rs ...that protest that went nowhere. Fall out is the $800000 a day in policing, the disruption of traffic and local businesses. Residents living with days of constant honking.
> 
> I support a vaccine mandate.
> But at the same time I recognize the failure of leadership.
> ...


This protest was doomed from the beginning. It was initially sparked by the feds doing as the Americans did, requiring vaccines to cross the border. First came the hyped doomsday scenarios of empty grocery shelves, and then it morphed into an anti-Trudeau thing (since really this was organized by the far right wing maverick party…) until some people began to wake up and realize, that they were going after the wrong level of government. People were posting this cartoon I’m attaching. It’s funny, but true. I heard there’s now some protestors headed to queens park, the level of government who actually set the vaccine mandates here.

Down the road, it will likely go down as far worse than any of the 1% protests, to say it is leaderless, pointless really, is the understatement. And the longer the holdouts insist on staying and pulling the shenanigans on residents there, the worse it’ll look on them. I notice the organizers are kind of quiet at the moment.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Yes, just shenanigans. Stop it already you truckers!


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Forgot the cartoon. Don’t forget to detail those failures macfury. Curious as to what you are referring to.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Oh gosh. They're protesting lockdowns? I thought it was federal vaccination mandates. Those truckers have egg on their face after this exposé!


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Don’t worry, I think a lot of people thought it was just about the border vaccine thing. Judging by the number of signs stating their purpose and statements to the press, I don’t think there was any great expose sadly.

no word on what those ‘failures’ are yet. My guess is there weren’t any.


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## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

Macfury said:


> Given the failure of vaccine promises to first prevent infection and then prevent transmission is there still a point in a vax mandate? Many countries already believe there isn't.


Without a vaccine mandate how else do you get people to vaccinate? The data is there, every time a restriction - a wave of appointments for jabs. Across the river here when they implemented the mandatory vaccination to buy alcohol they had I think 5000 bookings for the first dose that day.

Vaccines are not perfect. But it seems like our goal is once everyone has them is to live with covid like the seasonal flu. This of course is supposition, even if it is a common thought, as the divide between what we are being told and what we have had to figure out on our own continues to grow...


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

I hear a great deal about people who complain that experts like Fauci has lied to them. The problem I think is one of confirmation bias, mixed with a complete lack of any understanding of how science works. Fauci has said a long time ago we would likely be living with Covid for many years to come. He was saying this even as the
vaccine was just being rolled out. I don’t think he has misled anyone about the vaccine’s effectiveness, all he has done, because he has been pressed for predictions, is give his best estimation based on early data as it came in. There are a lot of people who already suspect the vaccine, largely based on a great deal of misinformation being peddled on social media as fact. So if Fauci changes his estimations because more data came in, or a new variant had been discovered that the vaccine appears somewhat less effective in preventing transmission with, to them, this automatically means, he lied, or the vaccine is a ‘failure’. This is a very simple, if very backwards way of looking at this.

Because it flies in the face of the facts and data readily available to us, that show that not only does the vaccine reduce transmission, (less so with omicron but a new tweaked vaccine much like they do with the flu vaccine will address it) but it accomplishes exactly what we -need- it to do, drastically reduce hospitalization and death. Quite literally, the reasons for mask and vaccine mandates along with lockdowns. What the ones who constantly keep posting simple graphs trying to say vaccines don’t work aren’t getting, is that is now becoming more important to vaccinate to protect our hospital system because if we don’t, we’ll stay in this nightmare cycle of restrictions much longer than we can withstand. And when you shows graphs like this that have context, you get nothing in response because it totally destroys their premise, entirely.


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## Peterweb (Mar 15, 2007)

How can these protesters in Ottawa expect any respect when you hear stories like this.

*Rocks, racial slurs hurled at Ottawa paramedic*
Protesters threw rocks at an Ottawa ambulance and yelled racial slurs at a paramedic, an operations commander with the paramedic service said.

The incident happened on Saturday when the paramedic was en route to his post. He had exited on Highway 417 when rocks were thrown at the vehicle from the direction of a large truck with a banner on it.

When the paramedic got out to check the damage, the protesters were screaming racial slurs at him.

The paramedic was shaken, but uninjured.

Two other ambulances had rocks thrown at them on St. Laurent Boulevard by protesters who were trying to make their way downtown Saturday, but were blocked off by emergency crews.

'All options are on the table' to end truckers' protest: Ottawa police chief Scroll down the page to see this quote.


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## FUXL (Nov 2, 2016)

I give the organizers credit for their occupation strategy - hundreds of diesel trucks parked to form a blockade of the precinct. More trucks edging into the residential neighbourhoods to further the blockade's strength. Mobile harassment of businesses and residents with Stuka like terror - high decibel horn blasting - diesel fumes, etc. Well established supply lines run out of a logistics centre where they took over a ball park owned by the city. City of Ottawa police are intimidated and will not act.

This is being studied around the world.


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## Vader101 (Oct 3, 2021)

FUXL said:


> I give the organizers credit for their occupation strategy - hundreds of diesel trucks parked to form a blockade of the precinct. More trucks edging into the residential neighbourhoods to further the blockade's strength. Mobile harassment of businesses and residents with Stuka like terror - high decibel horn blasting - diesel fumes, etc. Well established supply lines run out of a logistics centre where they took over a ball park owned by the city. City of Ottawa police are intimidated and will not act.
> 
> This is being studied around the world.


Give them credit? All they deserve is to go to jail. Canada need to call in the army to get rid of these morons. Send them packing and confiscate their trucks. This whole protest movement is infuriating. They are giving the good, decent truck drivers a bad name.


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## FUXL (Nov 2, 2016)

Vader101 said:


> Give them credit? All they deserve is to go to jail. Canada need to call in the army to get rid of these morons. Send them packing and confiscate their trucks. This whole protest movement is infuriating. They are giving the good, decent truck drivers a bad name.


That's right. This is much more than truckers though. 

To clarify what I give them credit for is their occupation strategy. There was a trial run with the oil and gas convoy and they learned from that. They have a stranglehold on the city with 250 or so trucks.

Now wait for the the escalation.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

On what charges?



Vader101 said:


> All they deserve is to go to jail.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Fauci lied deliberately about the efficacy of cloth masks so that there wouldn't be a run on N95 masks. He called it a "noble lie."



groovetube said:


> I hear a great deal about people who complain that experts like Fauci has lied to them


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

who called it a "noble lie". Fauci or Rand Paul? Do you know??


And from reports more people are bing charged in the Ottawa protest so it seems Ottawa police are having no issue finding what to charge them with.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

groovetube said:


> who called it a "noble lie". Fauci or Rand Paul?
> 
> And from reports more people are bing charged in the Ottawa protest so it seems Ottawa police are having no issue finding what to charge them with.


There’s always public defecation for a start.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Freddie_Biff said:


> There’s always public defecation for a start.


maybe throwing rocks at ambulances may qualify.

I’m waiting to hear more details about who said Fauci told a noble lie.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

GT Again you throw out those graphs with no explanation or source. Are they cumulative from when they started the vaccine? Or for a particular date? What is the time frame or date?
These two screen shots from the Government of Canada epidemiological page illustrate the importance. They are cumulative from the start of the vaccine campaign. Amazing how things changed over a mere 6 weeks, considering that it is adding just 6 weeks to an entire years data. The second is the latest available.

















BTW there is ample evidence that Fauci is indeed a liar. Robert Kennedy Jr. lays it out cold, and backs it to the hilt.


groovetube said:


> I hear a great deal about people who complain that experts like Fauci has lied to them. The problem I think is one of confirmation bias, mixed with a complete lack of any understanding of how science works.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

On a brighter note, the PM poked his nose out the door on Feb 2, saw the shadow of a truck and has gone back into hiding for another 6 weeks.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

groovetube said:


> Indeed. Im unsure as to why Australia was being singled out. If one os following the science on all this. Omicron, is insanely infectious, and has a better ability to evade the 2 dose vaccine, in particular thew AstraZeneca and the JJ single dose. It has been proven now, that the booster does significantly reduces ones chances of infections. Australia, like every other nation on earth dealing with this variant, is simply experiencing the harsh reality of a super infectious variant. But I guess since you live there perhaps it's a target  Useless...
> 
> We are fast approaching the endemic stage, where we have a super infectious variant that is much milder. All the efforts now, isn't as it has been in previous waves to drastically drop infection rates, it's to slow the infection rates to reduce the impact on hospitals. Focusing merely on infection rates and posting graphs of vax/unvax numbers without further analysis merely displays a lack of any understanding on this whatsoever.
> 
> ...


since you seem to have missed it, I’ll quote my post again which did indeed have the source, in fact using the same data your cherry picked graphs had but with better context, and I would suggest you read the post before you accuse people of providing no sources..

speaking of no sources, I’d like to see some sources regarding fauci saying he told a noble lie. Opinions of others is not a source.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Public was not told to wear masks in the beginning because:

"Well, the reason for that is that we were concerned the public health community, and many people were saying this, were concerned that it was at a time when personal protective equipment, including the N95 masks and the surgical masks, were in very short supply. And we wanted to make sure that the people namely, the health care workers, who were brave enough to put themselves in a harm way, to take care of people who you know were infected with the coronavirus and the danger of them getting infected."









Fauci Explains Why Public Wasn't Told to Wear Masks When Pandemic Began


Dr. Anthony Fauci explains the purpose of masks and why the American public wasn't immediately told to wear masks when the coronavirus pandemic first took hold in the U.S.




www.thestreet.com







groovetube said:


> speaking of no sources, I’d like to see some sources regarding fauci saying he told a noble lie. Opinions of others is not a source.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

We already know that masks were prioritized for healthcare workers at the very beginning, and that they focused on stay at home orders and physical separations. For very good reason. 

But this thread is supposed to be a factual thread, and you stated that dr. Fauci deliberately lied and, further, called it a ‘noble lie’.

Given what was at stake at the very beginning of the pandemic and healthcare workers wearing n95 masks for weeks at a time in some situations, if he did ‘deliberately lie’ I’d say it was a noble one, but I hadn’t actually heard dr fauci himself admit this. Can you provide the source for this?


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## FUXL (Nov 2, 2016)

Masks and HEPA filters - I consulted a US based Cancer researcher turned COVID researcher back in April 2020. She told me that an N95 mask was the best way to protect myself against aerosol transmission. She also told me HEPA filters that are sized properly for a room can trap COVID particulate. Neither guarantee 100% protection but that was the best advice then as it is now.

I am immune compromised and I need this level of protection.


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## Peterweb (Mar 15, 2007)

Downtown Ottawa residents looking to file $10 million class action law suit against the truck convoy protesters. And Gofundme has frozen the money raised for the truckers. If you do not request a refund of what was donated, it goes to a charity.









Lawsuit filed against convoy organizers, seeking damages on behalf of downtown Ottawa residents


Organizers of the 'Freedom Convoy' that has gridlocked downtown Ottawa for the last week are facing a potential $9.8-million class-action lawsuit over continuous vehicle horn noise, filed on behalf of residents of the city's downtown core.




www.ctvnews.ca


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## Vader101 (Oct 3, 2021)

Peterweb said:


> Downtown Ottawa residents looking to file $10 million class action law suit against the truck convoy protesters. And Gofundme has frozen the money raised for the truckers. If you do not request a refund of what was donated, it goes to a charity.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Excellent news. Things are looking up. Now the same thing needs to happen at the border blockage. I was wondering before how they could have a GoFundme page to support an illegal activity. It’s great it’s been frozen.


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## Peterweb (Mar 15, 2007)

And this suit is just for the residents around the protest. I wonder if a similar suit will be brought forward for the merchants in the area. The large Rideau Centre had to close last weekend and again from Feb 2 - 6 (for now) because the protesters took over the mall refusing to wear masks and harassing customers and employees. Plus all the other merchants in the surrounding area.


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## Vader101 (Oct 3, 2021)

Peterweb said:


> And this suit is just for the residents around the protest. I wonder if a similar suit will be brought forward for the merchants in the area. The large Rideau Centre had to close last weekend and again from Feb 2 - 6 (for now) because the protesters took over the mall refusing to wear masks and harassing customers and employees. Plus all the other merchants in the surrounding area.


Hopefully they jump on the bandwagon and also sue these protestors.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Just a comment on the GoFundMe debacle. You had to be following it on social media to get the entire picture. First GFM announced they would no longer disperse money to the convoy and the 130,000+ contributors had 2 weeks to file a form to get their donation refunded. Any not claimed would be distributed to a politically approved charity of GFMs choice. That was eventually clarified (altered) to be a politically approved charity of the organizers choice. However within minutes of the initial announcement, social media sites were on fire telling contributors not to file the form but instead tell their bank or card issuer to charge back to GFM. This would hit GFM with a $15 to $40 fee on every charge back. Perhaps GFM was hoping that maybe half of the contributors would fail to cancel and they could still collect their 15% on the remaining 4 or 5 million? Instead they were looking at losing another Million dollars or more, on top of the Million they had already dispersed. Within 24 hours the impact of those charge backs took its toll and GFM announced it was refunding all contributions automatically. They finally did the right thing, but their first instinct was ethically-corrupt, or maybe ethically bankrupt is a more accurate description.

_FYI, I was following this mainly on a local community network, not at all affiliated with and pretty much neutral towards the Convoy. *The admins on that site have not tried to censor either side of the story even though one of them used to drive trucks for a living.*_

Now my own view is that regardles of the reason, if GFM wants to pull out that's their prerogative, however the slime ball way they approached it was reprehensible. It should have been 100% automatic refunds right out of the gate. Full Stop!

That said anyone who has actually read my posts over the years is well aware of my absolute contempt for hypocrisy. Meanwhile GFM continues to fund BLM despite the $Billion$ in damages that outfit has caused in Minnesota and other states and cities. That in my opinion is the very definition of hypocrisy.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Looks like all the border crossing protesters are now gone, as I understand. Now just to get the Ottawa protesters to clear out. I have sympathy for the citizens that have had to endure this disturbance for three weeks now.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

It ain't over til the fat lady sings ....








As BA.2 subvariant of Omicron rises, lab studies point to signs of severity | CNN


The BA.2 virus -- a subvariant of the Omicron coronavirus variant -- isn't just spreading faster than its distant cousin, it may also cause more severe disease and appears capable of thwarting some of the key weapons we have against Covid-19, new research suggests.




edition.cnn.com


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## Peterweb (Mar 15, 2007)

Freddie_Biff said:


> Looks like all the border crossing protesters are now gone, as I understand. Now just to get the Ottawa protesters to clear out. I have sympathy for the citizens that have had to endure this disturbance for three weeks now.


Things seem to be moving this morning. Downtown around the convoy is shut down so police can move in. If you do not live in the area, you cannot get in. Even to work. Parliament not meeting today. Public transit rerouted away from downtown. Arrests have started. Hopefully a safe and peaceful end is near.

And I see the class action lawsuit against the convoy organisers has raised to $305 million for disrupting the lives and livelihood of the residents and merchants of the area.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

MacDoc said:


> It ain't over til the fat lady sings ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, that’s not good.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

This is not good at all









Scary new details about ‘Son of Omicron’


The new Covid sub-variant – nicknamed the “Son of Omicron” – is spreading fast and could cause more serious illness than its predecessor.




www.news.com.au





And already has a head of steam.....74 countries and rising,.....going back in my hidey hole.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

I suspect this new variant will cause some hotspots. From what I’m reading, boostered you are still 74% protected from symptomatic disease and very well protected from severe disease. However, those who have been touting how great monoclonal treatments are, will be out of luck in that regard. It apparently evades it.

In other news, looks like it’s moving day in Ottawa  don’t let the door hit them on the backside on the way (handcuffed) out!

I used to live downtown centerville in Ottawa, a few streets down from all this, friends still in the area have told me some pretty horrible stories. These aren’t peaceful protestors, and the incidents, are far from minor.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

From Saturday’s Edmonton Journal Letters:

“I’m thinking of organizing a freedom convoy and setting up a blockade to protest intolerable government constraints of my freedom.

I don’t like the seatbelt law, and don’t want to stop at stop signs. I think the laws mandating that I drive on the right side of the road are not justified and don’t want to observe them. I want to go to the pub with my friends and get thoroughly inebriated and then drive down Whitemud freeway at 100 miles an hour. I should have the absolute liberty to do these things.

Why should I get a hunting licence or a fishing licence? It’s my God-given right to hunt and fish wherever and whenever I want. And should I be forced to subject myself to the indignity of going through security whenever I want to fly to Las Vegas? And in Las Vegas, I want to go to a Celine Dion concert and shout “fire” in the middle of the performance.

These are all intolerable restrictions on my freedom and I hope others will join to protest and blockade to protect these freedoms.”


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

__





Loading…






www.cbc.ca


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## Peterweb (Mar 15, 2007)

Freddie_Biff said:


> From Saturday’s Edmonton Journal Letters:
> 
> “I’m thinking of organizing a freedom convoy and setting up a blockade to protest intolerable government constraints of my freedom.
> 
> ...


I sure hope that was a joke, letter. But the sad fact is, there are those that do think that way.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

MacDoc said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That could be dangerous considering her age. 95 is no spring chicken.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

winter solstice chicken...


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Sly virus is reloading....









More contagious version of omicron spreads in U.S., fueling worries


The omicron BA.2 variant spreads about 30% more easily and has caused surges in other countries. Its steady increase in the U.S. raises questions about the wisdom of rolling back COVID restrictions.




www.npr.org


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

MacDoc said:


> Sly virus is reloading....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


“Omicron is still infecting more than 100,000 people and killing about 2,000 people every day in the U.S.” 

2000 people a day.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

I think too many have bought into this insidious notion being spread by certain quarters that the vaccine is ineffective because you can still possibly be infected despite even being boostered.

It still doesn’t dawn on them yet that the real importance of vaccines, is keeping you out of hospitals and ultimately, alive. I see too many people still sharing the same graph showing similar to somewhat more vaccinated in our hospitals here in canada without any context. It hasn’t occurred to them that the number of vaccinated people in hospital is coming from about 90% of the population as opposed to the 10% for the unvaccinated. If you point this out, they get angry. Until people can see the facts, this predicament isn’t about to change any time soon I’m afraid. Apparently those touting the superiority of monoclonals compared to vaccines have also given bad advice as the newer variants have rendered this not just somewhat less ineffective but often completely useless.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

groovetube said:


> I think too many have bought into this insidious notion being spread by certain quarters that the vaccine is ineffective because you can still possibly be infected despite even being boostered.
> 
> It still doesn’t dawn on them yet that the real importance of vaccines, is keeping you out of hospitals and ultimately, alive. I see too many people still sharing the same graph showing similar to somewhat more vaccinated in our hospitals here in canada without any context. It hasn’t occurred to them that the number of vaccinated people in hospital is coming from about 90% of the population as opposed to the 10% for the unvaccinated. If you point this out, they get angry. Until people can see the facts, this predicament isn’t about to change any time soon I’m afraid. Apparently those touting the superiority of monoclonals compared to vaccines have also given bad advice as the newer variants have rendered this not just somewhat less ineffective but often completely useless.


But freedom!!!! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

I saw this cartoon today and it summed up how this convoy picked up the followers it did.

all they had to do was tell them someone was taking their freedom. But seeing the images of them in hit ins next to the bouncy castles surrounded but parked trucks occupying the road in front of parliament for 3 weeks, it made their cries of freedom even funnier.

not so funny for the residents that had to put up with the violence and closures of everything. I found out last night a friend of the family who lives there, an 81 year old woman was terrorized in her car by a pair of protestor thugs kicking her car screaming at her because she had a mask on. She not surprisingly, was too afraid to go anywhere outside of her apartment.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

groovetube said:


> I saw this cartoon today and it summed up how this convoy picked up the followers it did.
> 
> all they had to do was tell them someone was taking their freedom. But seeing the images of them in hit ins next to the bouncy castles surrounded but parked trucks occupying the road in front of parliament for 3 weeks, it made their cries of freedom even funnier.
> 
> not so funny for the residents that had to put up with the violence and closures of everything. I found out last night a friend of the family who lives there, an 81 year old woman was terrorized in her car by a pair of protestor thugs kicking her car screaming at her because she had a mask on. She not surprisingly, was too afraid to go anywhere outside of her apartment.


There’s a certain irony in the protesters being offended by people wearing masks and telling the mask-wearers to change their behaviour, even if that’s the rules in Ottawa, when anyone reminding them of the rules about wearing masks is impinging on their freedom. Total hypocrisy.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

The entire thing start to finish, is childish.


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## Vader101 (Oct 3, 2021)

If I had the time. I would love to create a website containing a list of all businesses/companies that have contributed financially to these domestic terrorists. Also a list of companies that employ the protestors, so we can boycott them all, until they fire their employees that are a part of this.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Vader101 said:


> If I had the time. I would love to create a website containing a list of all businesses/companies that have contributed financially to these domestic terrorists. Also a list of companies that employ the protestors, so we can boycott them all, until they fire their employees that are a part of this.


Careful, Vader. That’s starting to sound pretty provocative. Politically speaking.


----------



## Vader101 (Oct 3, 2021)

Freddie_Biff said:


> Careful, Vader. That’s starting to sound pretty provocative. Politically speaking.


Nothing to do with politics. I for one would love to know who is supporting them. So I can choose not to spend my money at their business.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Pretty sure it's been done.








Data leak reveals Canadians, Americans donated millions to fund trucker convoy protests


Analysis shows just over 50 per cent, US$4.3-million, originated in Canada, while 43 per cent, or US$3.6-million, were said to originate from the United States




www.theglobeandmail.com













[Free] GiveSendGo.com Convoy Donations 02/2022 Leak Download - Page 4 | RaidForums


(February 15, 2022 at 09:46 PM)Phish Architect Wrote: Great data. Thank you for them. (February 14, 2022 at 03:00 PM)fantoski Wrote: EDIT: Also, they repor...




raidforums.com





there are more specifics here - happy wading








TruckersForFreedom


Not sure how reliable this source is, but also quite interesting if true. https://getwokeup.com/2022/02/07/ottawa-police-are-resigning-in-record-numbers/ That garbage keeps making the rounds. At one point it was 50% of the officers in one day (more than 700) With not a single officer making a...




www.gtamotorcycle.com


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

world waking up









Stealth BA.2 omicron variant can reinfect people who had BA.1, study finds


Dozens of people in Denmark have caught BA.2 within months of catching BA.1—meaning they caught Omicron twice.




www.newsweek.com





Reality check 70,000 a week dying of covid. Fat lady cowering in the dressing room...








Conditions "ideal" for more transmissible, dangerous COVID variant: WHO


WHO Director-General Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus called it a "dangerous narrative" to believe the pandemic is over.




www.newsweek.com


----------



## FUXL (Nov 2, 2016)

Not just businesses. The list of individual contributors to fundraising for the miscreants has been circulating. They are in our neighbourhood if you trust the list. Several police contributors too. A DND employee. 

I wouldn't like to be them.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Reading more about this new second omicron variant. Those who think being infected before will give them good immunity, are finding out the hard way it doesn’t. They’re saying this variant is more infectious than omicron but has the severity of earlier variants.

Lovely. Hope it doesn’t take over but it might. Still, they are finding that the vaccinated are the most protected. I wonder how long the anti-vax crowd can keep up pumping the misinformation stream, until many of them die?


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Heard today Pat King, one of the “illustrious” organizers of this anti-vax anti-mandate convoy, tried to appeal to the judge’s sympathy today that he spent 4 cold days in jail with someone who may have Covid.

Holy irony Batman. I haven’t laughed that hard in a while.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

it will









zing








There Is Nothing Normal about One Million People Dead from COVID


Mass media and policy makers are pushing for a return to pre-COVID times while trying to normalize a staggering death toll




www.scientificamerican.com


----------



## unblocktheplanet (Feb 5, 2008)

Vader101 said:


> Excellent news. Things are looking up. Now the same thing needs to happen at the border blockage.


_Except_ for the fact a lot of us Canucks would rather keep those nutso Yanqs on their own side of the line!


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Then there Deltacron lurking ,.


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

MacDoc said:


> Then there Deltacron lurking ,.


And who knows what after that. I just hope we’re not shooting ourselves in the foot lifting restrictions too soon. Pretty much all restrictions gone next Tuesday in Alberta including masks.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Given how fast BA2 spreads you will have your answer soon ....me ? I'm switching up to N95....this is the first time since the beginning we've had community spread and I want as good protection and as little contact as possible.









Coronavirus pandemic not over, German health minister warns


Germany's health minister warned Friday that the coronavirus pandemic isn't over yet, noting that the country is still seeing record infections and high numbers of deaths.




medicalxpress.com







> The Robert Koch Institute, Germany's disease control agency, reported 210,743 newly confirmed cases of COVID-19 and *226 deaths in the past 24 hours*





> Omicron, the highly contagious coronavirus variant sweeping across the country, is driving the daily American death toll higher than during last fall's delta wave, with deaths likely to keep rising for days or even weeks.
> 
> The seven-day rolling average for daily new COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. has been climbing since mid-November, reaching 2,267 on Thursday and surpassing a September peak of 2,100 when delta was the dominant variant.
> 
> ...


Did someone hand out rose coloured glasses en masse ....


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

MacDoc said:


> Given how fast BA2 spreads you will have your answer soon ....me ? I'm switching up to N95....this is the first time since the beginning we've had community spread and I want as good protection and as little contact as possible.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah that certainly gives one pause. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

This opening up is populous driven and an acceptance that Covid is now endemic. The only good thing is that BA2 is spreading so fast and cases rising so quickly that prophylactic needs will arise quickly if ....as in some areas already ....hospitals are overwhelmed with cases if not deaths.
It is so contagious I see a hard time for measures actually having an impact.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Easing an opening up, absolutely. Getting rid of mask mandates etc, brainless in my opinion.

But what do I know, I’m no doctor 

I think here in Ontario I read they will keep mask mandates in higher risk settings such as transit medical centers/hospitals etc. small miricles for some sanity I guess.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

It's still masked here for dental and medical offices and grocery stores. Vaxxed passport check in not needed, contact tracing sort of overwhelmed and not enforced but encouraged.


----------



## FUXL (Nov 2, 2016)

I will not be entering buildings without a mask for some time. Buildings are poorly constructed for clean airflow. You can HEPA filter all you want but the intake/outake design of hermetically sealed building stock, especially in office towers is an absolute no go for me. Consequently a mask is the answer.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I see Australia has almost caught up with Canada in total cases. Those numbers have surprised me, as Australia's totals have skyrocketed from next to nothing over the past two months. Deaths remain low, but they are climbing ahead of some countries slowly.


----------



## Vader101 (Oct 3, 2021)

groovetube said:


> I think here in Ontario I read they will keep mask mandates in higher risk settings such as transit medical centers/hospitals etc. small miricles for some sanity I guess.


Same with Alberta. You will still have to wear a masks in those locations here also.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

should be in grocery stores too...is here.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

.


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

MacDoc said:


> should be in grocery stores too...is here.


I wore one in a grocery store just an hour ago. Hate the experience. I wore it under my nose because the mask keeps fogging up my glasses. I will not miss masks once they’re no longer required. Tuesday at school should be fun.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Might as well not wear it then.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

MacDoc said:


> Might as well not wear it then.


Seriously, if your nose is hanging out there's no point.


----------



## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Macfury said:


> Seriously, if your nose is hanging out there's no point.


From a health perspective there never was a point behind the masks. Right out of the box they come with a disclaimer that they are ineffective in preventing the spread of viral infections. I would never use any of those masks when sanding drywall or even when sanding wood. If they won't keep drywall dust out of your nose how are they gonna stop a virus?

Beyond that we had some -30°C days this winter and more than a few people wearing their masks outside. You could see their breath going around and even right through the mask. Since to remain viable a virus has to hitch a ride on that water vapour how could they possibly believe the mask was hindering viral transmission at all?


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Next time you have an operation be sure to let the surgeon know.
Surgical masks and N95 in particular stop transmission of viruses which are carried by droplets.
Breath is water vapour not droplets.








Will a face mask protect me from COVID-19?


Masks work. Read on to see studies and real-world examples showing how effective masks can be.




www.health.qld.gov.au


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

MacDoc said:


> Next time you have an operation be sure to let the surgeon know.
> Surgical masks and N95 in particular stop transmission of viruses which are carried by droplets.
> Breath is water vapour not droplets.


lessee… worldwide medical experts verses anonymous dude who did some ‘resurch’ on the yoo-tube on a small forum. Hmmmm. 

I’m seeing the majority of people wearing kn95, n95 and surgical masks primarily now. I suspect none of the ‘resurchers’ would ever tell their surgeon not to bother wearing a mask in their surgery room. Just a guess.


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

There was an interesting and thought provoking skit on SNL this weekend about whether masks really helped or not. Anybody see it? John Mulaney was the host.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Ok I’m outta here.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Changing standards of "normal".....2,000 deaths a day 









and they all want to open up.


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

MacDoc said:


> Changing standards of "normal".....2,000 deaths a day
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Talk about moving the goal posts. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Seems to be a collective "we give up" shrug


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Talking to someone on another forum from Maine ...the caseloads are dropping ...BUT....deaths are higher than they've ever been.




__





Loading…






www.nytimes.com




It's a very infectious beast - at least 30% more so than BA1, and jury still out on whether more dangerous. From the Japanese studies, BA2 goes deeper into the lungs than BA1 which means much harder on those with any sort of compromised breathing or immune system.
Total case numbers really aren't meaningful as it is so wide spread and even here mild cases are not being tracked anymore. It's both hospitalizations and deaths that need to be watched









Hong Kong is an outright disaster








Hong Kong transport operators, supermarket cut services as COVID surges


Hong Kong's subway operator, bus and ferry companies, and one of its biggest supermarket chains, are cutting back services due to a worsening COVID-19 outbreak that has seen daily infections explode since early February.




www.reuters.com


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Hong Kong is a disaster...








Hong Kong turns to emergency powers for China help in COVID surge


Authorities say ‘dire epidemic situation’ behind move as territory struggles to contain COVID cases driven by Omicron.




www.aljazeera.com













Hong Kong reports record cases; movements may be restricted


Hong Kong's leader on Wednesday said people's movements may be restricted during mandatory testing this month of the entire population for the coronavirus, as health officials reported a record 55,353 daily infections and over a hundred deaths.




www.ctvnews.ca









__





Loading…






www.washingtonpost.com





and Malaysia - this disturbing ....think they have a mild case of something and dead quickly








91% of COVID-19 brought-in-dead cases in Malaysia unaware of infection: Khairy


KUALA LUMPUR: Malaysia’s Health Minister Khairy Jamaluddin said that 91 per cent of the brought-in-dead (BID) cases in the country were unaware that they had contracted COVID-19. At a press conference on Thursday (Mar 3), he said that this finding was based on the analysis of 113 BID cases between




www.channelnewsasia.com





THIS is the new normal !!?? ...many of these numbers are equal to or worse that last year.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

.


----------



## Peterweb (Mar 15, 2007)

I'll be staying with my masking for now. And we don't really know the accurate numbers for infections since they stopped testing all suspected infections.


----------



## Vader101 (Oct 3, 2021)

groovetube said:


> Something tells me the fast removal of all restrictions is going to bite those leaders in the ass. I hope Im wrong. I really do. But I think people really underestimate the number of vulnerable people in our populations. I honestly don't mind wearing a mask. Id rather not like any other sane human being, but if that's what it takes to be able to keep things open and the economy happening as well as our mental health, small price to pay in my opinion.


Very well said


----------



## unblocktheplanet (Feb 5, 2008)

Freddie_Biff said:


> I wore one in a grocery store just an hour ago. Hate the experience. I wore it under my nose because the mask keeps fogging up my glasses. I will not miss masks once they’re no longer required. Tuesday at school should be fun.


Ya know, if we want to be safe and if we care about others, we're going to be masking in public indoors a really long time--years. The only reason masks will be removed from guidelines is if there is a universal vaccine or treatment.

Here is Thailand Omicron BA.2 cases are the highest ever and deaths have skyrocketed. So don't buy Omicron is a gentle variant. The rich Western countries didn't vax the third-world. It would be inconceivable to see no new variants, easier or harder, come from there.

We are in no way out of the woods yet...


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

unblocktheplanet said:


> Ya know, if we want to be safe and if we care about others, we're going to be masking in public indoors a really long time--years. The only reason masks will be removed from guidelines is if there is a universal vaccine or treatment.
> 
> Here is Thailand Omicron BA.2 cases are the highest ever and deaths have skyrocketed. So don't buy Omicron is a gentle variant. The rich Western countries didn't vax the third-world. It would be inconceivable to see no new variants, easier or harder, come from there.
> 
> We are in no way out of the woods yet...


Sorry to hear things are not so good in Thailand. Things are okay here in ‘Berta and we’ve been without a mask requirement (except for transit and AHS facilities) since March 1 and the sky hasn’t fallen yet. Sometimes it’s just the luck of your circumstances. The rate of vaccination is pretty high but we have no idea what’s next. All we really know is that a certain segment of the population who are Covid deniers/antivaxxers/western separatists/libertarians don’t want no stinkin’ mandates no more. We shall see, as Dr. G always used to say.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Once more this is NOT over....








New omicron variant is one of the most infectious diseases ever known


Authorities prepare for another wave of cases, but two new studies are suggesting vaccines and therapeutics are effective against the highly contagious BA.2 variant.




www.afr.com


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

If everyone wears masks forever, there are different people who won't die needlessly. Whether you like it or not, most policy decisions are based on a balance of some lives lost against other benefits.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

But if you did wear masks forever, some lives would not be "needlessly lost". However, public policy is not usually based on a "zero needless death" outcome. It balances costs, even the cost of some lives, against benefits.




groovetube said:


> I wasn’t aware of anyone here suggesting we wear masks “forever”.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

These aren’t the droids you’re looking for.


----------



## unblocktheplanet (Feb 5, 2008)

We seem to have gotten a bit distracted here. The only reason any kind of laws or mandates exist is that people have proven themselves by nature to be stupid & selfish. I don't give much of a hang for laws, even seatbelts or smoking or helmets or copyright or masks--I just want EVERYBODY to be as safe as possible...starting with ME!


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

unblocktheplanet said:


> We seem to have gotten a bit distracted here. The only reason any kind of laws or mandates exist is that people have proven themselves by nature to be stupid & selfish. I don't give much of a hang for laws, even seatbelts or smoking or helmets or copyright or masks--I just want EVERYBODY to be as safe as possible...starting with ME!


A fair statement. In your mind, when is it safe for people to return to their regular lives? I already have, so far so good. But we shall see as Marc liked to say.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

At any point when walking through a grocery store or public venue, I see several people wearing: one-way respirators with valves that allow breath to pass out; plastic shields; masks pulled down to expose their noses; masks they pull down to talk on the phone; no mask at all, due to "medical exemption." The air is full of whatever pathogens they are sharing. Mask mandates have never stopped this kind of behaviour.

People should choose to wear a mask if they believe they are infected or that it offers them some protection.

Anecdotally, however, all of the people I know who have recently been infected with Omicron are triple vaxed, careful about exposure and committed mask wearers. They dodged Delta using the same strategy, but are suddenly susceptible.


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Where did the posts clarifying what a straw man argument is go? They were relevant to this discussion.


----------



## Vader101 (Oct 3, 2021)

Freddie_Biff said:


> Where did the posts clarifying what a straw man argument is go? They were relevant to this discussion.


They where not relevant at all. They where just contributing to the arguments happening. How is that relevant to COVID?


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

It was relevant because a member disrupted a conversation with age old straw man tactics. Accusing us of being argumentative after we called out respectfully what was an obvious attempt at disruption doesn't foster good participation here.

You can ban, delete or whatever the case but it doesn't make the problem go away. Most forums don't allow such obvious disruptions. Just saying.


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Vader101 said:


> They where not relevant at all. They where just contributing to the arguments happening. How is that relevant to COVID?


Because you need some baseline understanding so that you can differentiate actual mature discussion from trolling and straw man arguments. Someone needs to call it out when it happens.


----------



## Vader101 (Oct 3, 2021)

Freddie_Biff said:


> Someone needs to call it out when it happens.


Actually no, they don’t need to call it out. What they need to do is to report said post. Anything else causes arguments and is not allowed.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Are we done yet? Maybe — but COVID-19 isn’t done with us


People have been talking about getting back to normal since the start of the pandemic. And at every turn, the concept of normal recedes into the distance. Until the point where, in the U.S., 21,000 deaths in the past two weeks is what normal looks like, Edward Keenan writes.




www.thestar.com






> Almost 1,300 people in the U.S. died of COVID on Thursday alone — more than 1,000 each day have died of the disease every single day since Dec. 2, 2021. That’s well over 100,000 deaths in the U.S. alone in the past three months, which is more than occurred in the first three months after the pandemic was declared in 2020.


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

MacDoc said:


> Are we done yet? Maybe — but COVID-19 isn’t done with us
> 
> 
> People have been talking about getting back to normal since the start of the pandemic. And at every turn, the concept of normal recedes into the distance. Until the point where, in the U.S., 21,000 deaths in the past two weeks is what normal looks like, Edward Keenan writes.
> ...


How’s the situation in Australia, MacDoc? Any improvement? Our numbers are currently going down in Alberta but as always, things could change.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Vader101 said:


> Actually no, they don’t need to call it out. What they need to do is to report said post. Anything else causes arguments and is not allowed.


Alright then, if calmly pointing it out isn’t allowed, then I reported what every member here saw.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I hate to be a storm crow but
This is so not over....



> WHO sounds alarm about Omicron as COVID-19 infections of past 10 weeks exceed those in all of 2020
> 
> 'This virus is dangerous and it continues to evolve before our very eyes,' says director-general


https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/omicron-who-more-cases-in-10-weeks-than-2020-1.6335451













COVID updates: Every state and territory's coronavirus numbers in one place


Looking for your state or territory's latest COVID-19 statistics? Here's where to find them.




www.abc.net.au





Queensland is huge ( think twice the size of Ontario ) but sparsely populated except for Brisbane which is the capital and 2.5 million people.
The state is 5.2 million and really where I am covid was not a thing ...there were almost no cases until January in a city of 1/4 million....and no deaths.

Up until January the total death count since day one was *7* for the whole state.....yeah you read that right.

Yesterday, 10 died.



> Ten more people have died in the state with COVID.
> 
> There are 263 people in hospital, 19 in ICU.
> 
> Queensland has recorded 7,190 new cases and has 32,329 active case


We are still way low with 662 deaths since day one but 










and now it is opening up both to internal travel and international after being a hermit kingdom till now.

We are pretty well vaccinated at 91.4 with two doses and 93.2 with at least one dose.



> Cairns and Hinterland29,1103141


where I am had no Covid for all intents and purposes until Jan. All were caught at testing stages and no one died.









Queensland COVID-19 statistics


Detailed information about COVID-19 cases in Queensland including maps of cases by HHS, LGA, age and gender and vaccination rates across the state.




www.qld.gov.au


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

MacDoc said:


> I hate to be a storm crow but
> This is so not over....
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear this, MacDoc. Sounds like the situation is definitely not under control.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Freddie_Biff said:


> Sorry to hear this, MacDoc. Sounds like the situation is definitely not under control.


its a collective shrug ,,world wide

still a concern


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500458793641066505

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1493930086982160384
from this thread




__





[Continuation] The One Covid-19 Science and Medicine Thread Part 4 - Page 45 - International Skeptics Forum


[Continuation] The One Covid-19 Science and Medicine Thread Part 4 Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology




www.internationalskeptics.com


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/canada-covid-19-hospitalizations-omicron-ba2-boosters-1.6390333










Went to an indoor classical music concert yesterday - I and a few others were masked.
There are more Covid cases for the area in the last two months than all of the pandemic,


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Can’t we just will this thing away? Maybe if we just try harder? More thoughts and prayers perhaps?


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride


----------



## unblocktheplanet (Feb 5, 2008)

Same in sunny Thailand. More deaths & hospitalisations than ever. Starting to see the I-know-someone-who-had Covid reaction worldwide. This is so not the flu & there are very real potential long-term health consequences. IMNSHO, govts are sacrificing the vulnerable to curry votes. Like the 'storm crow' reference, MD. Reminds me of Canada!


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

unblocktheplanet said:


> Same in sunny Thailand. More deaths & hospitalisations than ever. Starting to see the I-know-someone-who-had Covid reaction worldwide. This is so not the flu & there are very real potential long-term health consequences. IMNSHO, govts are sacrificing the vulnerable to curry votes. Like the 'storm crow' reference, MD. Reminds me of Canada!


We’re enjoying no restrictions, no masks here in ‘Berta, just in time for Jason Kenney to try not to lose the leadership review. We’ll see how long this lasts I guess.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I be lining up Apr 4th








Australia to give fourth COVID-19 jab to people over 65


SYDNEY: Australia is offering a fourth dose of COVID-19 vaccines to over 65s from next month, federal health authorities announced Friday (Mar 25), as a new Omicron strain races through the population. The top advisory group on vaccines approved the fourth shot for vulnerable groups: those aged...




www.channelnewsasia.com





Out today riding ....stopped at cafe .....no one with masks but had to show vax certificate to eat inside ...
I ordered with my mask on inside and got fuel with my helmet buttoned up.


----------



## Vader101 (Oct 3, 2021)

Freddie_Biff said:


> We’re enjoying no restrictions, no masks here in ‘Berta, just in time for Jason Kenney to try not to lose the leadership review. We’ll see how long this lasts I guess.


Still have to wear masks in some places. Like transit and hospitals/medical sites.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

and around we go ....



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/luc-boileau-sunday-news-conference-sixth-wave-1.6399195


----------



## unblocktheplanet (Feb 5, 2008)

The ROW is on fire with Covid. In countries that actually test (not BC, not Thailand) like South Korea, the numbers are astronomical. Masks are good. Covid is sure not over yet...anywhere.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Not over here and with borders open ...more sure to come.








COVID outbreak puts added pressure on Queensland hospitals, some elective surgery to be suspended


The number of hospitals and ambulances workers isolating or quarantining with COVID doubles in a week and a half, with Brisbane's northside, the Gold Coast, Cairns and the Darling Downs hardest hit.




www.abc.net.au


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Think - more than the population of Aus on lockdown in one city  








As Shanghai expands COVID-19 lockdown, life on hold in city of 26 million


SHANGHAI: China's commercial hub of Shanghai ground to halt on Friday (Apr 1) after the government locked down most of the city's 26 million residents to stop the spread of COVID-19, even as official numbers put local cases




www.channelnewsasia.com


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

MacDoc said:


> Think - more than the population of Aus on lockdown in one city
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It’s hard to see an end with news like this. Stay safe, mon ami.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

MacDoc said:


> Think - more than the population of Aus on lockdown in one city
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But apparently there have been few deaths in China for the past year. Death stats still locked in at between 4 and 5 thousand.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Death rates aren't the marker these day ....ICU is. As with battles...costs more for a wounded soldier than a dead one.
Vaxxed and death risk is low, unvaxxed not so much, serious covid still around for immunity challenged population which is surprisingly high when all categories are covered.
Masks are cheap and work ....suck it up princesses


> Viewpoint: New UK Data Show BA.2 Variant Produces More Frequent Hospitalizations Than Omicron
> April 6, 2022
> Kevin Kavanagh, MD
> 
> *Evidence shows the BA.2 variant is more infectious and virulent than the Omicron variant.*











Viewpoint: New UK Data Show BA.2 Variant Produces More Frequent Hospitalizations Than Omicron


Evidence shows the BA.2 variant is more infectious and virulent than the Omicron variant.



www.infectioncontroltoday.com







> Ontario is now seeing an estimated 100,000 new COVID-19 infections a day
> *With highest number of daily infections reported since the beginning of the pandemic*, experts warn of increased hospitalizations in the coming weeks and call for mandatory masking in essential businesses and schools.
> 
> On Wednesday, the province reported 1,074 COVID hospitalizations, *representing a 68 per cent increase in the last two weeks*
> ...











Ontario is now seeing an estimated 100,000 new COVID-19 infections a day


With highest number of daily infections reported since the beginning of the pandemic, experts warn of increased hospitalizations in the coming weeks and call for mandatory masking in essential businesses and schools.




www.thestar.com





fat lady on leave of absence.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

MacDoc, those numbers are not confirmed cases --they're based on wastewater analysis.


----------



## Peterweb (Mar 15, 2007)

Macfury said:


> MacDoc, those numbers are not confirmed cases --they're based on wastewater analysis.


But because we are being told that if you feel sick just assume you have covid and not to get tested. And they have been using the waste water testing for a long time now.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Agreed, but since we don't have a long history of _publicized_ wastewater testing, it doesn't necessarily represent a shocking increase in cases over traditional testing. For example, Canada reported 17,000 new cases yesterday overall.


----------



## Peterweb (Mar 15, 2007)

Got our 4th doses of the vaccine. So far, we have stayed Covid free, even though family members all around us have been infected.


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## Vader101 (Oct 3, 2021)

Same here, I am hearing of lot of people getting COVID that I know. I’m not surprised as it seems most are acting like the pandemic is over. My family and I are still wearing masks in public locations, and trying to be as safe as we can.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

yep - masks for me - disinfect the the cart handles ....









Michael Osterholm: Covid-19 keeps firing 210-mph curveballs at us | CNN


After more than two years, the United States has now passed the tragic milestone of a million Covid-19-related deaths — and the pandemic is not remotely done.




edition.cnn.com







> In my case, yesterday was horrendous. Must have been horizontal for 20 hours. Running a temp, spiking at 37.5°C. Sweats. Shiverings. Achy joints, teeth, hair, balls. And an absolute funking epic headache that painkillers wouldn't touch. Today it seems more like it was 2 days ago - plus a dry cough, v runny nose, and a weird chemically taste in my mouth I can't get rid of. I've been awake for four hours now and am only just starting to dip - which is a vast improvement on yesterday when I was only managing about 20 minutes at a time. *Hate to think what this would have been like without my two jabs and a booster*


From another forum ....triple vaxxed - I wished him well ...fat lady MIA


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## Peterweb (Mar 15, 2007)

Even after getting a 4th jab, wife and I still wear masks when entering any buildings. And when we get inside we still see a mix of those with and without masks. Can't understand why people can't see that they have helped us for the last 2 years, and the numbers are going up again since mask mandates were removed.


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## Vader101 (Oct 3, 2021)

Same with us on vaccinations. We also wear our masks at every public location. I’m seeing more and more without masks and it is concerning. People are acting like the pandemic is over. I am starting to believe an article I read previously. It said that it is a case of not if you are going to get COVID, but a when you are going to get it. They though that eventually everyone will get this virus.


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## unblocktheplanet (Feb 5, 2008)

Here in Thailand, masks are ubiquitous, indoors & out. Except on foreigners! Not certain yet about those 4th dose boosters. Maybe everybody will eventually get Covid but, as with vax, this does not guarantee long-lasting, forever immunity. Biggest worry is a new & harder variant.


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## Peterweb (Mar 15, 2007)

The vaccines will probably morph into the annual covid shot, just like we get flu shots now. And as with the flu shot, the 'experts' will decide which strain will be included in the annual shot.


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## unblocktheplanet (Feb 5, 2008)

I've only ever gotten a flu jab once. Where I live, one has to pay.

Only had the flu once...


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> Australia’s active virus caseload remains above 300,000 and there are more than 2700 patients recovering in hospitals around the country.
> 
> Authorities have again extended emergency powers in Tasmania, where almost one-third of the state has been diagnosed with COVID-19 and there have been almost 60 deaths this year.





> goolnar’s brother has 3 major heart acts last Monday from blot clots. and has clots in his liver. The crazy thing is he has only miner heart damage and was released to go home last night. Very lucky.


https://www.hri.org.au/health/your-heal ... nd-strokes

One of my staff's B-inlaws....came very close to dying and he was not aware he had covid....this is a very nasty beast....and still lurking.

Got my flu shot the other day. I have had severe flu once decades ago and it still offers some protection.

4th covid jab due up this week.


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