# Winter or All-Season tires



## iLabmAn (Jan 1, 2003)

What do you all think? I travel from Brampton to Bolton everyday taking Mayfield Road (for those who know what I am talking about).

Are winter tires/rims worth it?


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## MrVermin (Jul 26, 2002)

From other posts that you made, I drive the same car that you do, an Escort GT. The '91 through '96 Escort GT comes with 15"x6.5" rims and 185/60/15 goodyear tires (unless you get high performance 205/55/15 tires installed like myself).

Now I drive quite a bit up to Keswick and Barrie in the winter with my car so I spent the extra and got a seperate set of 14" steel rims with a good set of winter tires (Cooper Winter Track) at 175/70/14. These are a deaper more aggressive tread pattern than an Ice Tire like the Blizzak.

The reason for this is that the Escort GT that I have does not have ABS and Ice Tires work better when they are moving, as well I tend to drive in deeper snow and not on plowed roads.

In my opinion, get the seperate set of rims and tires and store the aluminum rims for the winter, they will last longer and you will have better control with the winter tires.

MrVermin


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

"All Season" tires are just that; pretty good at everything, excellent at nothing.

I learned all about the difference between good tires and bad tires when I decided to ride on 2 wheels instead of drive on 4; and it's a lesson I learned very well.

Because I'm on the Praries, where winter means driving on packed snow and ice every day, even in the city, I use Ice Radials winter and Highway Radials summer (no mud tires, than you; you can't stop on the highway with them).

In Ontario , where winter driving is mostly cold-dry, slush or occasional heavy snow, I would probably go with a snow tire. Believe it or not, we don't get much snow on the praries (I can see my grass today peeking out from under about 3 inches, but it's going to stay that way till February) and there is a big difference between an ice tire and a snow tire.

Ice tires have poor dry-road traction and accelerated dry pavement wear; they're designed to remain soft below -10C. Snow tires are better at dealing with slush or wet snow conditions, and wear quite a bit better on dry pavement when the temp is closer to 0C. A Mud&Snow tire might be appropriate if you see a lot of temps between 0 and +10C.

By switching over in the spring and fall, you get excellent mileage out of both, while still driving a sticky tire.

I usually buy an identical set of 4 Winter Tires; run them 2~3 seasons, then buy 2 new ones and put them on the front (steering/braking) wheels. The ones from the front go to the back, and the ones from the back are left on rims for spares; they're good enough to run for years if I ever get a flat, and if I don't run them as a spare then I can rotate them with the set that's on there.

I don't put many miles on in the summer; my Summer set has about 30,000 Km total and they're 7 years old. It looks like they're going to outlast the truck. I will probably buy 2 new summer tires for the front this spring.

If you use 2 sets of quality tires you should be able to have them last a minimum of 4 years up to 6~8 years, even if you drive 20K a year.

If I used All Season tires they would be worn to the point of replacement every 3 years. I drive some pretty rough roads and cheap tires, even if they're all season, are out of the question.

My last "flat" involved driving a rock about half the size of a bar of soap right through the tread. Because it's a good tire, I was able to patch it and it's still fine for a spare, with lots of tread left.

If you have to buy cheap tires, especially if they're all-season tires, don't spend extra for "high-mileage" ones; get the less expensive 60K tires because they will be stickier (softer tread wears faster but bites better) and will give you better overall traction, braking and handling than any 100K tire can.

You are much better off replacing a soft tire every 3 years than trying to run a hard tread for a scary 4th followed by a very scary 5th, and it ends up costing about the same.

[ December 03, 2003, 06:20 AM: Message edited by: gordguide ]


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## Digital_Gary (Sep 18, 2003)

> In my opinion, get the seperate set of rims and tires and store the aluminum rims for the winter, they will last longer and you will have better control with the winter tires.


I second that. I have done that with every car I have owned. Blizzak's (or similar) are worth the extra money. Having a second set of rims makes changing them yourself very easy. 
As long as you don't put the winter tires on too early and get them off before the weather gets too hot, they will last you quite while. On my current car, this is the 3rd winter for my Blizzak's and I will get at least 1 more year out of them. They would have lasted even longer but the first 2 years I had them I was doing at least 5000KM's per month.


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## Brainstrained (Jan 15, 2002)

Snow tires definitely.

I grew up in Manitoba and lived most of the last 20 years in Northern Ontario, including a lot of years in Thunder Bay.

Most days you probably won't need the extra traction and control they give, but on that one day . . . . you'll want the most your tires can give you.

Sorry to sound like an ad, but I've had enough close calls.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Excellent advice from all concerned here. I too would agree and go with the 'winter" tires. I run winter year round on my Suzuki 4 x 4, so I can "off road" whenever I wish. I run them on the Windstar November 1 to March 31, then back to all season.

Cheers


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## iLabmAn (Jan 1, 2003)

Ok. I'm convinced.

Snow tires and rims for everyone!


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## sinjin (Jul 12, 2003)

Winter tires for sure.

I've been on all seasons for my entire driving life (slipping and sliding all over the place) until last year when I decided to splurge on 4 Yokohama's. In a word: WOW!

Honestly, the difference was _huge_. So much that I need to curb my overconfidence when in adverse winter conditions.

If you get them at a good tire shop they'll also swap out your tires free of charge with changing seasons.


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## (( p g )) (Aug 17, 2002)

Three factors. 
Depend on what you drive, how you drive and where you live....

1. What you drive: Bigger, heavier cars tend to be fine with good-quality all season tires. If, on the other hand, you're main vehicle is something like a Civic (nice car, just not heavy), then you might want to consider snows.

2. How/where you drive: If you simply noodle back and forth to work on the freeway everyday, then you'll likely not get the full benefit of snows. If you are a particularly aggressive driver, or if you tend to make a lot of trips into the countryside (where plowing is far less frequent) then snows might serve you well.

3. Where you live: For me this is the most important factor of all. For those who live in North Bay, Winnipeg or Sudbury, snow tires are pretty much a necessity. My sense about So. Ontario is that is simply doesn't snow enough, nor is there a lack of snow clearing services to justify buying snows. As for me, I've lived in our nation's snowy capital all my life, and I've never used snow tires...nor have I ever felt that I needed them.


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## newMaci (Oct 30, 2003)

the only advantage I think to winters is that they give you a shorter breaking distancce in heavy snow and get through snow better. but on ice winter and all season tires are the same. hope this helps....lived in ontario and know where you are talking about...good luck...let us know what you decide.


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## Eidetic (Oct 6, 2003)

in theory all season tires arn't GREAT at anything

the investment in dedicated winter tires is worth it
especially if your commuting....

stopping, take off, cornering your going to notice a difference...


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

research, research, I had to buy new tires recently and could not afford to have to buy winter tires now and new summer tires in the spring. So I bought a new tire from BFGoodrich called the Precept from the design point of the tire the rubber compound used is from a all-season tire but the design incorporates a winter tire design philosophy so you get the best of both worlds I hope, the other day with the light snow fall on the ground the tires behaved ok but as winter sets in we will get more snow and I will find out if I made the right decision or not. But if I could afford both sets I would buy the winter tires without thinking twice.


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

oooooops double post.


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## iLabmAn (Jan 1, 2003)

Well after two days of bumping from Canadian Tire store to Canadian Tire store....(now wait...I know what you are thinking: why CT? Well, they had a deal on tires and rims and I don't have a lot of cash so...)...

...each store said they had the parts, but when they checked the stockroom the tires and rims were not there.

Anyway. My brother told me about Yokohama Avid T4s. He put a set of tires on his wife's car and swears by them. So, I bought a set for my car and find that they are exceptional.


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## MrVermin (Jul 26, 2002)

> Anyway. My brother told me about Yokohama Avid T4s. He put a set of tires on his wife's car and swears by them. So, I bought a set for my car and find that they are exceptional.


You may have to be carefull with those tires. The Yokohama Avid T4's are great tires, but they have a low treadwear rating. My brother got those for his car and they stick like glue in the dry and are good in the wet and sluch, but they wear very fast. He has had them on for two years and next year he may have to replace them.

I would still get a seperate winter set and summer set.... The tires will last longer and you will have more control in the end. JMHO.....

MrVermin


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

Check out the Winter Tire user reviews here. 

I've got new Goodyear UltraGrip Ice on my 1999 Taurus Wagon, on steel rims (don't want to ruin my lovely aluminum wheels). _Very_ good so far.


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## sinjin (Jul 12, 2003)

I also have the Avid T4s, for spring summer and fall. Only about 10 000 km on them so far. Wear is noticeable, but can't say whether or not it is excessive just yet.

Potential wear issues aside, they are great tires. The ride and handling of my car improved noticeably compared to the Michelins they replaced. Road noise decreased as well.

However, according to the dealer, the T4s favour summer conditions and compromise winter driving (online reviews I've read would seem to support this). In other words, if you are looking for a tire that is balanced between summer and winter, the T4s are not them.


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## David MacFadyen (Dec 30, 2002)

I bought IceTrack tires from Canadian Tire just after the big T.O. snow storm that Mel labelled a state of emergency ( When was that - Jan '99 ?) 
These are mounted on steel rims on a '88 323 GTX (4wheel drive). They made a noticeable improvement.
I'm very pleased with them. They go on sale often . Back then,I paid just over$300 for 4 -185/60R 14 mounted.


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## MrVermin (Jul 26, 2002)

> '88 323 GTX (4wheel drive).


I hate you... 









MrVermin
(I know where you can get a VJ20 turbo upgrade for that GTX to replace the VJ16 that comes with it..)


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## Britnell (Jan 4, 2002)

In the GTA, it is a great idea to get "winter rims", as the salt will corrode the Al rims leading to leakage around the bead eventually.

As for winter tires in the GTA, I'm not convinced of the necessity. Toronto tends to over salt, and the conditions are mostly bare road for the majority of the winter. Combined with front wheel drive, all season tires are the most many people need.

Downside to snow tires, especially the "ice" tires, is that they are made of a softer compound, to give better grip in the cold. This leads to faster wear, especially on dry pavement, no matter what the temperature. They are also usually noisier than an all season.


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## Jordan (Jul 20, 2002)

This is Canada people................ we have winter here, ya know!!!!! those people that drive with All Seasons (summer tires) are looking for trouble in the the winter.  
Never replace just 2 tires (2 winters with 2 AS's)
Every time we get a dump of snow here, what vehicles are in the ditch!!?? usually SUV's with AS's on them as with any other car.

If you put Winters on, you will be happy you did, whether you think they be used to their full potential or not.


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## Griller (Jan 17, 2002)

For all 12 years that I've been driving here in and around Toronto. I've _never_ used winter tires. I've always used All-Seasons. From my parents' cars (ie. compact, mid-sized, full-sized, and mini-van) to my own: it was All-season tires, all the time.

I've concluded that, like ABS, winter tires do nothing for you if you're a stupid or poor driver. Stats have shown that ABS has done very little to decrease vehicular accidents, fatalities, insurance claims, etc. I believe the same holds for winter tires.

I don't deny the effectiveness of season specific tires (ie. winter tires in winter) or ABS. But their benefits have had almost no effect on the bottomline. Basically, they're worth the money but don't rely on them to do anything miraculous, they're only as good as you are. If you're going to wreck, you will wreck and winter tires and ABS mean squat.

In other words, take your time, don't speed, cruise in the slow lane, and keep a huge distance between you and the guy ahead. I, for one, can vouch for All-Seasons and say they're effective enough.


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