# iPhone May Not Come To Canada? Rogers dismisses claims as "Speculation"



## jhollington (Jan 29, 2007)

From Apple confirms U.S. iPhone launch set for June



> Apple Inc. has confirmed reports that its iPhone cellphone will be released in the United States in June.
> 
> An e-mail sent Tuesday to people who signed up on Apple's website to receive information about the device read: "Talk to you soon. Thanks for signing up. You'll be the first to hear the latest about iPhone — coming this June. That gives you just enough time to think of ways to break the news to your current phone."
> 
> ...


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## rondini (Dec 6, 2001)

If that's the case then Rogers is stupid in the extreme. As I have been wanting a phone to replace my 4 1/2 year old Audiovox and would switch from Telus to get an iPhone. I have been with Telus since it was clearNet, about 10 years or so.


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

I am not the least bit surprised. Rogers is not what I would call Apple friendly to begin with. In addition given the built in wifi and data requirements Rogers could not make this a viable product with the current pricing for data access.


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## rondini (Dec 6, 2001)

Well will have to wait and see for reports of those getting it thru the US and using here. What issues they may or may not be having. If Rogers is dumb, I guess someone else can jump in when they release non- GSM versions of the phone. Are you listening Telus?


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## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

Except that Rogers (and Fido) are the only two companies that CAN carry the iPhone in its current incarnation. Telus, Bell etc are CDMA networks/phones, a technology that is not compatible with GSM networks/phones, such as the iPhone. Many phone companies introduce a CDMA version of their phones after a while (RAZR V3c, for example), but I don't imagine Apple will be doing this.

Rogers has a corner on this market, and I imagine the current press from Rogers is designed to stop/prevent a lull in phone purchases, contract renewals etc.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

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## adagio (Aug 23, 2002)

You'll notice no one actually come out and said they'd definitely NOT be offering the iPhone soon.

I suspect their phone sales are way down and there is still a while before the iPhone is released.

Rogers is idiotic if they turn this down. I know a few people with other carriers who are ready to jump ship. Apple plays hard ball and it could be Rogers is too freakin greedy to go along with Apple's deal.


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

The guerilla approach here is for *EVERYONE* interested even remotely in iPhone to call, fax, email, post qestions on Rogers site, ask in Rogers stores about iPhone. It is a political truism that a single actual contact is interpreted as 100 people interested and business isn't much different. We need to make it plain to Rogers that there is a market for iPhone. To do that we need to tell them in every possible way as many times as possible......  

If you think Rogers would be "ID: 10T"s to drop this ball, *tell them*!!!!! :clap:


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## chusan01 (Apr 4, 2007)

I feel sorry for Canadians and Brits - Apple will make them pay a fortune for the iPhone compared to what Americans will have to pay!


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

chusan01 said:


> I feel sorry for Canadians and Brits - Apple will make them pay a fortune for the iPhone compared to what Americans will have to pay!


Based on what info???


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

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## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

chusan01 said:


> I feel sorry for Canadians and Brits - Apple will make them pay a fortune for the iPhone compared to what Americans will have to pay!


The proof for this is sorely lacking. If you look and compare the prices on the US Apple Store and the Canadian Apple Store (online), the Canadian actually ends up being *less* expensive after conversions.


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

John Clay said:


> The proof for this is sorely lacking. If you look and compare the prices on the US Apple Store and the Canadian Apple Store (online), the Canadian actually ends up being *less* expensive after conversions.


But the proof of this is not in the hands of Apple... it is in the hands of the Cell Phone Carriers. Unless all you can eat wireless data packages fall to under $50/month this whole thing is not going to go anywhere.


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

One thing is for sure. I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for the iPhone to come to Canada.


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## Guinness (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: Rogers and the iPhone*

I got in touch with Rogers immediately upon hearing the news earlier this week and the email I got back yesterday from their customer service group was fairly clear -- Rogers intends to be the Canadian distributor of the iPhone. There was no question in the wording, it was similar in content to the ones circulating shortly after the iPhone announcement.

MIke


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## CdnPhoto (Jan 8, 2006)

I sent a message to Rogers (via their website) and got the following:

At this time we do not have any information in regards to the offering 
of this product. We do not have a list of hardware to be released or 
set dates. We suggest to keep checking Rogers.com as when new products 
are released they will be listed there.

I would recommend that anyone that is interested in the iPhone should contact Rogers and ask them when they will be getting it. Show Rogers that there is an interest in the phone and maybe they will do something about it.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Maybe I won't be going to Rogers if they carry the iPhone afterall. Not if this kind of #@%* happens.


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## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

ehMax said:


> Maybe I won't be going to Rogers if they carry the iPhone afterall. Not if this kind of #@%* happens.


That is AWFUL and inexcusable!


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

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## Carl (Jun 7, 2003)

I think that if I were in the market for this kind of pricey gadget, I would choose the LG Prada. It has expandable memory (SD card). The iPhone seems a bit overpriced for something that will most likely be obsolete by the time it is released.
I have been buying cell phones for nearly 20 years now. They get beat up, drained and dropped. Cheap and disposable is the way to go. Either that, or make the device expandable.


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

HowEver said:


> Unfortunately, all those places people think are "Rogers" are actually "third party sales companies." Just because you see a sign that says "Authorized" dealer, doesn't mean it's Rogers also. There are a couple of corporate stores that are exceptions, but most are owned by other companies.
> 
> It's *still* Rogers' fault. They should ensure the companies they deal with, and the individuals they hire, would never conduct business this way.
> 
> Same goes for CIBC, Winners/HomeSense, TD, and all the other companies whose employees or affiliates' employees have screwed up this badly: better be safe, or not even a free iPhone is going to assuage a lot of people.


I've made this comment before. It used to be that companies strived to be the type of company that others were compared to. "Why can't other companies be like..." They took pride in themselves.

Not it seems that companies are still striving, but in the opposite direction. As in "how little can we get away with?"

The first company that comes along with that combination of a fair price for an excellent product with excellent service will cause one of two things to happen. Either the public will be so skeptical that they won't believe it is possible and ignore them, or they will realize that most other companies that they deal with have been treating them like garbage for so long, and they will revolt and make that company the greatest thing to ever come along. 

Those of us that are old enough to remember the 70's know what happened to the auto industry. The imports came in with a business plan that knocked the domestic auto industry on it's ear. They have never fully recovered. 

I think that the biggest problem is us as consumers. We continue to allow ourselves to get walked on, we put up with terrible service, with marketing tactics that leave us confused beyond belief. Can _you_ figure out your cell phone or cable plan and heaven help you if you bundle two or three together.

I've been without a cell phone for over 2 years now. People don't believe me especially when they are aware that I am self employed. I explain that I lived with one for 12 years. For most of that time, I carried it around 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. And then I explain that for 12 years working before I had a cell phone, I survived without one. 

If the iPhone comes to Canada, I will probably buy one. Not because I need a cell phone, but because this is the first device that I have seen in a long time that makes sense for what I need. It's not perfect, heck I could live without the video iPod and digital camera functionality. 

But it will be a tool that will assist me in being more productive. I won't have to carry the laptop around as much, or get it out as much. I can put away the Palm unit and I can put away the iPod. It will have the information I need, and will sync properly with Daylite. 

But if Rogers screws it up, as much as I like the device for the features that I will be using, I may have to just say no. And right now my biggest fear is that Rogers will screw it up. Even if it was Bell, or Telus, or Shaw, or even Cogeco, I would be afraid that they would find a way to screw it up as well. 

Companies need to stop thinking that their customers are stupid.

And we as customers, have to stop behaving that way.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

/


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

HowEver said:


> "if Rogers screws it up..."
> 
> In what way? What do you mean?
> 
> Also, half the consumer attitude comments I read are like yours: consumers get walked over. The other half are the opposite: they demand the moon, and it better be nearly free, and fit in their side pocket. I don't know who to believe anymore.


I sent a message into Rogers online feedback about a month after the iPhone was released. In the response that I received, there was a statement:



> Please be advised that Rogers will be offering the iPhone exclusively in Canada


However the first message in this thread states:



> "We haven't announced whether we will carry the iPhone," Odette Coleman, manager of corporate communications for Rogers Wireless, said in an e-mail to CBC News Online. "Everything in the media has been speculations to this point. The only fact is that we are the only GSM carrier in Canada. That's the only fact."


Left hand, meet the right hand, right hand, meet the left hand! Maybe the left hand should find out what the right hand is saying to your customers. There is the first example of Rogers 'screwing up'.

Call Rogers and ask them about a phone plan. Better yet, if you are a current Rogers customer call them and ask them if you are on the best plan you could be on. I'll bet that one of the first questions you'll be asked is whether you are on Rogers cable and would you like to hear about the bundling plans available. It has been my experience that they ask this question to avoid answering your question because most customer service reps for ALL of the telcos don't understand their own plans. Why? Because they are way too confusing!

I don't blame the person on the phone although I must admit there are times when I get frustrated that a company will put someone on the phone, representing the company, who hasn't got the proper tools and knowledge to do their job. In my opinion, having pricing plans that are too confusing to understand is not providing the proper tools. 

As soon as I say that I am with Cogeco, it's almost like the person on the phone doesn't have a 'if answer is Cogeco turn to page xx' prompt in their cheat notes.

Another screw-up? It's called Skydome or _the_ Skydome. It has always been Skydome and will always be Skydome. The ACC has always been the Air Canada Centre. The CN Tower will always be the CN Tower. Those names were attached to the buildings from the beginning. If Ted was so vain, where was he and his money back in 1989?

I don't expect or demand the moon. I will pay what I feel is a fair price for the right product for my requirements. Unfortunately these companies continue to feed us with a lot of useless crap. I saw one post by someone who considers cell phones to be disposable. I am not a staunch environmentalist, but I do try. 

I have one question for Mr./Ms. disposable? Where does the old one go when you buy a new one? I don't want to be disposing of phones every year or two and filling the landfills with more stuff that our future generations will have to worry about in the years to come. 

As for Rogers screwing up. How about providing us with a definitive answer on the iPhone. Stop hedging your bets, get off your butts and make a decision one way or the other. And then when the decision has been made, get all the divisions in the same room and explain it to them, then make sure the message gets down to all levels in the company. Then tell us so we can make a decision.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

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## jhollington (Jan 29, 2007)

Well, I know I'm splitting hairs at a microscopic level here, but the statement _ "Please be advised that Rogers will be offering the iPhone exclusively in Canada"_ says nothing about _when_ they will be offering the iPhone.

Since Rogers is the only game in town when it comes to GSM, and the iPhone is only compatible with GSM, then it's a fairly obvious statement that they would be the exclusive provider of it. It also gives them more than sufficient time to sit on their hands without worrying too much about somebody else coming in and scooping them on it.

The one tiny glimmer of good news, however, is that while I don't doubt for a second that Rogers could easily screw this up from a customer service and product availability and pricing point of view, at least they're more likely than Cingular to offer the iPhone without any extra crippling. The Nokia E62 release on Cingular was such a debacle of phone-crippling that Cingular customers were "upgrading" their phones to the _Rogers_ firmware.

Customer service and ridiculous back-pedalling statements aside, at least they don't cripple their phones.



HowEver said:


> As for the Skydome references, Rogers is a privately held company and obviously the decision was made for the highest level of self-promotion.


Agreed. I find it amusing how nobody made any similar noises when the O'Keefe Centre became the Hummingbird Centre.


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

jhollington said:


> Agreed. I find it amusing how nobody made any similar noises when the O'Keefe Centre became the Hummingbird Centre.


I still call it the O'Keefe Centre. 

I am a big believer in branding, however you can't just dig into the pockets, pull out a wad of cash and obtain instant branding. Your marketing department will make you believe otherwise, but good branding happens over time, not overnight. 

I have to apologize to Ted Rogers for what I said earlier. I found this on Wiki:



> On December 18, 2006, when Rogers Communications Inc. and the Toronto Blue Jays held a press conference announcing the contract extension of Vernon Wells, President and CEO Ted Rogers stated that he and his wife held a party for the Blue Jays organization at "the Dome". This shows that even though the media is told to refer to the building as Rogers Centre, Rogers himself does not refer to it as such.


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

HowEver said:


> When will the next Mac be released?
> 
> You don't know? Might as well buy something else then... I don't think so.


But I'm not waiting to know when it will be released. I want a definitive answer on whether I will be able to legally purchase an iPhone in Canada. 

I'm sorry but your example is a poor one. Apple has been very good about providing accurate information about release dates. I think that the Apple TV product was the first that was not released on time. 


> The iPhone is this kind of product: if there was a release date on Rogers, people would immediately stop upgrading their phones. They would cannabilize their current sales.


Show me proof that this actually happens. Cingular/AT&T don't seem to worry.

Would it also not cannibalize the competition's current sales as well?

Even if it did, it could be a benefit to Rogers. Rather than getting < $200 for a phone upgrade with what is available now, they could be getting >$600 for an iPhone if the date was within reach. They could take pre-orders. They could be getting publicity with every iPhone sighting. Right now if an iPhone shows up somewhere, there is just an wire service blip of it here in Canada. If Rogers got off their duffs and signed an agreement with Apple, most of the Canadian wire clippings would probably end with "Rogers has signed an exclusive agreement with Apple to distribute the phone in Canada."

Much as you tend to see Cingular's name mentioned every time the iPhone is mentioned. I don't think that Cingular/AT&T are worried about cannibalizing their phone sales now are they?

And let me be clear, I'm not picking on Rogers. Bell, Telus, etc. are equally as bad when it comes to keeping their customers in the dark like this. 

Part of the problem is that companies only worry about today. They don't care about building up long-term customer loyalty. There used to be a general business rule that stated that you treated your customers better than any potential customer. It cost 10-20 times more to attract a new customer, than it did to keep an existing customer from leaving. That principle seems to have vanished in many industries.


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## Derrick (Dec 22, 2004)

This comparison of data rates between Canada and other countries is unbelievable ... WARNING: you will be upset after seeing this article.

http://www.thomaspurves.com/2007/04...ountries-when-it-comes-to-mobile-data-access/


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## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

That's rediculous


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## Akai (Sep 27, 2003)

Okay as a Rogers Employee and a visiter of these forums...

Regarding the iPhone:
1) We have never stated as a company that for SURE we will be getting the iPhone. Thats between Apple and Us. We did however state we are actively pursuing negotiations with Apple regarding the iPhone, we never gave a date just we're working on it. And to my knowledge still are.

2) Sales have not slipped so its not some market tactic. If we can secure the deal, we will. If not then well it won't happen. Its business, but like you I hope we will.

3) If its a matter of holding out for a 3G model then that might happen. Look at it this way, Cingular gets it first in the US. If apple has told us they wont be able to meet our supply demands but that they have a 3G model in the works odds are we would seriously consider delaying it and hold out for the 3G model for Rogers Vision.

4) Money, it always comes down to money.
-How many iPhones are we going to sell?
-Is it going to compete with our Vision Line up? (and for the comment regarding the camera on the Video Phones, its on BOTH sides. You can choose either camera or switch between them)
-Im going to be honest, the number one complaint from most consumers is they want a free phone, tell them they have to pay for it and they go through the roof, we cant just give out iPhones so how many people are actually willing to pay the premium price tag for them?
-Plus we DONT get alot of questions regarding it... sure you and I might care but were die hard apple fans. Alot of people really just want a free phone and cheap service.

Its sad i know, but we're not saying we're not getting it, we're just saying we're trying so please dont hold your breath. I would hate for anyone to die over it 

Towards the High-Speed Internet information incident:
I agree its apauling, believe me its not normal practice and when it happened.. well some heads rolled. The information did not have any credit information and the problem was traced to its source and was/is being dealt with. I can't say anything other than that. But Rogers takes customer privacy very very seriously.




Now this one is a PERSONAL rant of mine......
WHO CARES IF ITS NOT CALLED SKYDOME?! Really.. does it effect your life? No. Is the Air Canada Centre called that for a reason? Yah they own the building... What about Staples Centre? Same deal... hey wait a second Rogers owns the Rogers Centre, that doesnt make much sense does it...? Actually it does.

And for your knowledge names like that, are copyright protected. If you buy the building it doesn't come with it. We chose NOT to purchase that name, or any of the names like "Jumbotron" yes guess what copy protected too. Instead of shelling out lods of wasteless dollars on names we invested it elsewhere. If i recall we did the same with the Toronto Blue-Jays, or should i say The Jays? The new logos? But saving that money has allowed Rogers to invest in things like Fido, Sprint, upgraded to HSDPA/UMTS for new phones and as of late some CHUM channels and many other improvements.

When it comes down it rogers would much rather be able to invest in other services to provide to our customers than building names, whats the return on a name? Remember who does Ted Rogers answer to, his shareholders and guess what they want results. Hey and if they waste that money whats going to happen? It will be passed onto the average consumer, higher ticket prices, more fees.. if you want the name you'll pay for it.

But thats the problem here, everyone has the mentality that the world is free. Well its not, Rogers is a Corporation, which is by law an living breathing entity just as you or me. You want whats best for you right? Well so does Rogers or any company, we want to do whats best for us and for our customers. But the world isn't free. Everyone expects free service, free phones, no contracts, cheaper bills. Do i blame them? No! Who wouldn't but lets be honest if Rogers or any company did that they wouldnt be alive very long.. and Corporations will FIGHT for their existance just as you or I would.

Its not a matter of gouging our customers, thats not the idea or any companies idea (well im sure its some but they don't last long). But when people call in, and believe me they do and say "what can you do for me? What promotion can you give me? Whats free?" and bug and push.. really whats the point. You want credits? Sure... but everyone is just going to pay for them in the end with higher service fees and such. Its not fair, not fair to the company or to the other consumers.

Hey if we have to shell out $xxxxxx because customers are sometimes greedy where is that going to come from? Profit margins, and honestly companies will only budge and cut into them so much. After all they are here to make a dollar, are here to grow... and the less money they make the less they can do that. So then it might just end up getting passed onto you, the consumer.

Remember this the next time you want a free phone, or those legit charges on your bill taken care of. And im not talking about just Rogers im talking in General, we all pay for it. Every dollar you scam out of a company they are going to look to make back elsewhere...


*PS: Im not trying to come off as a jerk, so if I did im sorry. Its just been a long hard day. And sometimes, just sometimes the world gets to me *


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

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## Chrispy (Jan 17, 2005)

HowEver said:


> I think John Clay has nailed it.
> 
> Why put people off of Rogers North-American-first Vision (video calling) as announced/released just this week? Especially with a phone that hthe video camera on the *wrong side *for video calling?


You do realize the Samsung A706 is a dual camera phone...the camera lens for video calling is on the inside, and is on the correct side of the phone. The external camera is for just taking pictures.


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

Akai said:


> Okay as a Rogers Employee and a visiter of these forums...
> 
> Regarding the iPhone:
> 1) We have never stated as a company that for SURE we will be getting the iPhone. Thats between Apple and Us. We did however state we are actively pursuing negotiations with Apple regarding the iPhone, we never gave a date just we're working on it. And to my knowledge still are.
> ...


As I mentioned earlier, in an email that I received on January 23rd from a Rogers employee:



> Please be advised that Rogers will be offering the iPhone exclusively in Canada


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

Akai said:


> Okay as a Rogers Employee and a visiter of these forums...
> 
> Now this one is a PERSONAL rant of mine......
> WHO CARES IF ITS NOT CALLED SKYDOME?! Really.. does it effect your life? No. Is the Air Canada Centre called that for a reason? Yah they own the building... What about Staples Centre? Same deal... hey wait a second Rogers owns the Rogers Centre, that doesnt make much sense does it...? Actually it does.
> ...


The Air Canada Center was given that name before the building opened. To the best of my knowledge, so was the Staples Center. The Skydome ran for over 15 seasons as Skydome or The Skydome. There is a big difference. BTW, neither Air Canada nor Staples owns the buildings that their names are on. 

Even though the Leafs didn't make the playoffs, I'm looking forward to watching the the battle for the Tim Horton's Stanley Cup, or is it just the Tim Horton's Cup, the battle for the championship of the NHL. 

And of course the most valuable player of this year's playoffs will be proud to hoist the Conn Mastercard Smythe trophy. I'll be flipping back and forth between the playoff games and the baseball game. I think that the Jays have a great shot at winning the General Motors Series. Can you imagine the parade that we could have up Yonge - brought to you by The Toronto Star - St. if they won it all?

It would have shown a tremendous amount of class if Rogers had kept the Skydome name. It isn't the name of some other company, it doesn't represent anything other than the name of building. 

No I don't believe that it is a copy-write situation. Even if it was, (and I'm not a big Red Wings fan) I'm glad that Mike Ilitch wasn't too cheap to cover both the purchase of the building and retain the Joe Louis name and the Red Wings logos when he purchased the Red Wings. I'm also glad that Fenway Park wasn't renamed in 2002 when the Red Sox and the stadium were last sold.

No it doesn't affect my life. It's just nice to see some owners respect the idea of tradition. We don't have much left in Toronto sports, or much in the rest of North America for that matter, it has become too much 'the big buck'. It would have been nice to see the Jays continue to play in the Skydome, a building where they won their two World Series Championships.


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## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

Oakbridge said:


> Even though the Leafs didn't make the playoffs, I'm looking forward to watching the the battle for the Tim Horton's Stanley Cup, or is it just the Tim Horton's Cup, the battle for the championship of the NHL.


That'll be one helluva a rim to roll. Lord Stanley seemed like a good egg -- and the history of the Stanley Cup is such that it should NEVER be renamed. Some pretty funny stuff has happened to it! :lmao: 



> It would have shown a tremendous amount of class if Rogers had kept the Skydome name. It isn't the name of some other company, it doesn't represent anything other than the name of building.


I agree completely. "Canon Theatre" in Toronto, anyone? But honestly, our memories are often created through our own generational eras. It started as the Pantages. Then, it got bought and was renamed the Imperial. At my age, I remember the Canon as the Imperial Six movie theatre. When it reopened as The Pantages, this older name seemed apropriate for the theatre's restoration... pity that Alexander Pantages was a convicted rapist. That kinda takes the nostalgia out of it. And the restoration of the Pantages? An act of spite between bitter rivals Cineplex Odeon and Famous Players (read this Wiki about the soap opera)... and today, Cineplex OWNS Famous Players!

Cineplex _WON_

And that seems to be the way of the world. Doesn't it? Money talks, power corrupts, and even though I prefer "Skydome" to "Rogers Centre", Lord knows what it SHOULD PROPERLY and justly be called... and he probably doesn't care.


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## rondini (Dec 6, 2001)

Perhaps our Rogers employee member can explain packet shaping by Rogers.
http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/1859/


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## Carl (Jun 7, 2003)

Akai said:


> Okay as a Rogers Employee and a visiter of these forums...
> 
> Regarding the iPhone:
> 1) We have never stated as a company that for SURE we will be getting the iPhone. Thats between Apple and Us. We did however state we are actively pursuing negotiations with Apple regarding the iPhone, we never gave a date just we're working on it. And to my knowledge still are.
> ...


Want the best for our customers? That is funny. 

Anyway, I deleted my rant. I was an 18 year customer who paid to leave Rogers. I was wrong apparently. The customer is always wrong at Rogers. I see that I am also wrong about my opinion that the SKyDome name change was a dickish move. Wrong,wrong,wrong. How do I get through the day?
I'll tell you one thing. I get through it without having to ever deal with Rogers and those customer service geniuses.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

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## Akai (Sep 27, 2003)

Firstly i was in a bit of a bad mood last night so i hope my rant didnt bother anyone 

HowEver - Okay "scam" is definately too harsh of a word, but really it does happen. We do get people doing false activations, spinning products and various ways to get out of paying more and cheat the system. I get it, the world is full of people who dont "play by the rules" and care solely for themselves. Thats fine, its our job to try and prevent that and keep our paying customers happy. But it doesn't always go that way.. try being in one of our call centres. Take a few calls, i guarantee that 1 out of 3 calls is someone looking to get credits because "they didn't know" or "don't think they shoud pay for that" it happens ALL the time. And really its sad, i get why it happens i just personally find it sad. The world isn't free, if you don't want to pay for internet then don't use it. The service may be there but its there as a convenience factor, its the customers choice to use the product or not and in whatever fashion. But yes "scam" is definately too harsh a term.

OakBidge - Well since there are only 2 carriers in Canada with GSM, Fido and Rogers and Rogers owns both they are going to try and retrieve the iPhone for the flagship, Rogers. And I do know we are actively trying to get it, but Rogers doesn't want to make any false promises to its customers.. Whoever said that, well in my opinion shouldn't have and isn't the message which has been instructed to be passed onto the consumer.

And your right, Staples PAID for the rights to have their name on the building. As i said names are protected, you buy the building you don't get the name. Those are viewed as two different things and keeping the name(s) was going to result in higher costs so they opted not to. Its actually why Rogers Employees are instructed to call it specifically the Rogers Centre, we don't own the name "SkyDome" and can't use it offically.

Granted i completely understand where your coming from but change is a natrual part of life. Names Change, Companies Change Hands, Jobs Change. Its everywhere and we can't be burdened down by the past at all times. If Rogers bought the building and decided not to keep the name, well then thats their call. Afterall every company wants their name to be the one out their right? Its free advertising, and in cases like this can sometimes be considered bad advertising by some people. But thats your call and you are completely entitled to it. On a side note though it is still commonly reffered to as SkyDome by lots of people i know and work with. As previously mentioned Ted has used it a few times himself. Its hard to break "bad" habbits 

Carl - Oh carl my friend, i have no problem with you leaving Rogers. If your happy with Bell, Telus, Cogeco whatever product and company you choose im glad for you! But people will always have bad customer experiences but really thats not what we want. Contrary to the common belief that Rogers doesn't care we do try our best. There are alot of rules, conditions and things we do to try and make sure we maintain and improve our customer service aswell as products. But mistakes do happen and honestly as an employee im sorry you had a bad experience and I hope your happy with the choice you made (and by the sounds of it you are! So good!!)

This isn't about getting personal, i get the fact that people have a beef with Rogers, or with Bell, or whatever company is out there. Its going to happen, its natural. Companies can't always please everybody so its bound to happen. But really a company is going to try and do what's in its best interest, and this does infact include the customer's interest. I mean with no customers you don't have a company... BUT we can't give away everything for free though and thats what people need to realize. Sure its great for you but then Rogers is dead, and you have no cellphone, no cable, no growing network, no new services that you want... and its not so great for you.

Meh but its all just my opinion, and as I am entitled to mine you are entitled to yours


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## jhollington (Jan 29, 2007)

Akai said:


> Take a few calls, i guarantee that 1 out of 3 calls is someone looking to get credits because "they didn't know" or "don't think they shoud pay for that" it happens ALL the time. And really its sad, i get why it happens i just personally find it sad. The world isn't free, if you don't want to pay for internet then don't use it. The service may be there but its there as a convenience factor, its the customers choice to use the product or not and in whatever fashion. But yes "scam" is definately too harsh a term.


While I agree with your basic premise, and am probably just as peeved as you are about people who try to get something for nothing, or blame their own stupidity on others (a common one that annoys me is the old _"I dropped my iPod in the toilet. Why won't Apple fix it under warranty?"_).

However, just to play devil's advocate for a moment, if Rogers made their rate structure and calling plans more clear, then perhaps there would be fewer _legitimate_ claims in this area. I have been a Rogers customer off and on since the beginning (heck, I go back to the Cantel days, if you want to get technical), and the reality is that every year things get _more_ confusing, not less.

My most recent example of this was when I switched from a Blackberry 8700 to a Nokia E62. In the Rogers Store, I _asked_ if I needed to do anything to my plan for this switch, and the answer was that I would be fine on the plan I was on. So, I carried on for about a week before it occurred to me that I should actually call into a CSR and check into this (after checking the plans online for myself). They were able to confirm that I should be on the "Blackberry _Connect_ Plan" with the E62, and indicated that they would place a note on my file to indicate that this was an issue (as the local store rep had been unaware of this). 

My bill showed up a couple of days ago, with a $170+ data charge on it for that week, because I was paying $0.05/kb for _not_ being on the proper plan. A call to Rogers managed to correct this little oversight (and to be fair, the folks were _very_ cooperative in this regard and I had no issues getting it resolved), but the point is that this is an example of the sort of problem that ensues when the plans and services are too confusing for even the store reps to understand.

Further, after several calls and discussions, and even a question placed to a corporate Rogers rep at one of my clients, I still don't have a definitive answer on what the "Blackberry Connect" plan actually _does_ include (for example, nobody can seem to tell me if tethering is included in that plan, and I basically ended up having to try it and wait for my bill to find out).

So while I don't deny that there _are_ people out there trying to "screw the system" the reality is that there are just as many who are completely confused and bewildered by it. Certainly if somebody such as myself who has been a long-term customer and understands these vagaries can fall into this trap, then what hope is there for the average consumer?


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## Akai (Sep 27, 2003)

jhollington you made a good point.

As for the circumstance of what happend to you let me say im sorry. As you found out the hardway there IS a difference between the regular BSP or Blackberry Service Plan and a Blackberry Connect for the e62. Although the same price, the data amount included is quite different.. for a few reasons which I won't go into.

I am extremely glad to hear that we were however able to resolve the issue. Things like this circumstance, are considered obvisouly valid credits and sometimes thats a thin line so were not usually too stingy when it comes to mistakes like this. Also im extremely pleased that you took it upon yourself to do a little research.. too many people these days let others do the work for them and when its wrong get upset. Which i can understand but honestly there is a limit, i always say if i want something done perfect ill do it myself. But thats just a side note.

Back to the topic at hand - Sadly this type of thing, i hate to say, Isnt completely uncommon. I used to actually work for the dealer level a long time ago (Worked for Rogers 7+ years now). The main problem there, is the training or lack-there-of some of our in store friends recieve. Rogers as a company is one of the largest spenders in Canada when it comes to training, our dealers.. are not. Why pay someone to be out of the store for 3 days for a course when you can condense it down to 3 hours? Sadly this seems to be the mentality.. and it falls short in my opinion. As a customer AND an employee.

But from a corporate stand point we don't have control over the dealers, and as much as Ted would like to cut them out of the loop and make all the stores Corporate (which he wanted to a few years back) its a long and difficult process. Actually this I believe is part of the reason Rogers Video has assumed all the Rogers Plus locations. Its one step in an effort to try and streamline things in my eyes into Corporate stores which can be more easily regulated and controlled.

I even see it happening with our call centres. Like every big company we have our own call centres aswell as 3rd party ones... oh those 3rd party ones.. i love em, but i hate em  Right now some of our centres are actually trying to extend hours and employees in what i believe is an attempt to streamline this area aswell. Granted it won't solve all the problems as some people out there just don't do their job, in any company.. but here.. well ill be honest they don't last that long. Some of Rogers qualifications standards for "certification" are extremely strict for our CSCs and for a good reason. They are the front lines of our company!

I did forget to talk to rondini's comment.. you asked about Packet Shapping? Honestly i would LOVE to be able to answer your question in large detail but i am primarily wireless affilated in the company... sorry! I think i get the general idea where they are coming from though, BitTorrent is a huge bandwith hog on the network from what i heard. Rogers wants every customers experience to be fair and equalized, if someones using too much that means trottling them back to even it out for everyone else.

Granted I do disagree with what is going on, but not with the principal ideals of creating a fair/fast/positive experience for all users. I have however heard grumblings of Teir'd fees for over abusers, etc... which would elimiate the need for Packet Shapping I would think. I have NO idea if this will actually come into effect though.. so beyond that I really can't say. Personally I do hope its a practice we don't keep up and simply a stop gap until a better solution can be put in place. But as I said, I don't work for the High-Speed portion and im no CEO  so who knows.


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## (( p g )) (Aug 17, 2002)

Getting back on topic...

This is entirely speculative but it's reasonable to think that Apple might be pressuring Rogers right now to bring down their data rates to something less than stratospheric. That can only happen before they get a lock-in on the phone. Sure, sky-high rates might suit the monopolistic habits of Rogers, but it makes it a much tougher sell for Apple to convince people (welll...*most* people) that the iPhone is a good investment. 

Remember that while Apple doesn't have to work all that hard to sell its shiny new toys to the faithful, the fan-boy segment is just a small portion of the wireless market. How can they possibly sell Mom and Dad, or Boss McGee on one of the key benefits of this phone--email, voicemail, maps and all that other great stuff--if the cost of using many of its features is prohibitively expensive....and even by Apple's pricey standards. Let's not kid ourselves, people. Most of us have seen that bar graph that shows just how absurd the pricing is out of sync with the market this product was designed for. And if you haven't seen that graph, I've attached a copy to this message.

I'm a business owner myself and while I love the idea of the iPhone, there's *no* *way* I will shell out what Rogers expects me to at current rates just so I can get the full benefit of the device. That's just not going to happen. 

So here's my prediction. Unless Rogers does something about those whacked-out data rates, don't expect the iPhone in Canada any time soon.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

.


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## depmode101 (Sep 4, 2002)

i wouldnt count Rogers out of an iPhone deal yet.

with the intense competitive wireless market in Canada, im sure Rogers understands that they are in a good position to offer something that not all wireless carriers can offer.

im sure they will launch the product - although my concern is availability. Cingular will definitely get the units they require for working with apple for the many years its taken to get to this launch.

in my opinion, it will happen, when is the question.


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## lewdvig (Nov 20, 2003)

Verizon passed on this device. That means a CDMA version was possible.

I could see a CDMA version 6 months after the GSM. So Telus or Bell may have iPhone before Rogers. I could live without the GSM flexibility and ease of swapping phones. Once I get one, I will probably just upgrade to new version of the phone every 2-3 years.


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## lewdvig (Nov 20, 2003)

HowEver said:


> FYI, for April only, you can get 10MB (instead of the usual 2MB) of data per month from Rogers for $5. If you get the Vision Data package added to your plan, it's a perpetual $5 rebate off the 10MB/$10/month charge. You ALSO get unlimited video calling for 3 years. Although the promotion comes with the purchase of a new video phone for $99 ($299 - $200 rebate) the data plan *can *be added without it. I don't have a video phone, didn't buy one, but if I do sometime in the next 3 years I won't be paying for video calling. There's a step forward. It does require signing or re-signing for 3 years though.
> 
> Since I had re-signed 2 months prior, this was an easy call: more data so I'm in no danger of going over each month, unlimited video calling eventually, perpetual rebate. For $5 per month and a two-month contract extension.
> 
> This also throws off that chart, reproduced above, by quite a bit. Nevertheless, wireless data remains far too expensive in Canada.


Hot deal, but GTA only.


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## jhollington (Jan 29, 2007)

lewdvig said:


> Verizon passed on this device. That means a CDMA version was possible.
> 
> I could see a CDMA version 6 months after the GSM. So Telus or Bell may have iPhone before Rogers. I could live without the GSM flexibility and ease of swapping phones. Once I get one, I will probably just upgrade to new version of the phone every 2-3 years.


_Possible_, perhaps, but Verizon passed on the iPhone back when Apple was starting their R&D a couple of years ago. Basically, prior to committing to any particular cellular standard, Apple approached the carriers to see who would bite.

While it's not impossible to build a CDMA version, it would require some more R&D and a separate FCC approval process. Six months is probably a little bit optimistic in that regard, although a CDMA version is sure to be coming eventually.

On the other hand, I believe the Asian market is largely CDMA, which means that they will likely have to eventually provide a version for that market, which they have promised to deliver to by the end of 2008.

Another consideration depends largely upon the specific wording of Apple's agreement with Cingular. The nature of the exclusive deal likely precludes Apple offering any version of the iPhone (GSM or otherwise) to any other U.S. carrier during the term of that agreement. This doesn't mean that Apple can't offer it in other countries, of course, but it does affect their motivation to produce one within a shorter time frame.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

.


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## lewdvig (Nov 20, 2003)

jhollington said:


> _Possible_, perhaps, but Verizon passed on the iPhone back when Apple was starting their R&D a couple of years ago. Basically, prior to committing to any particular cellular standard, Apple approached the carriers to see who would bite.
> 
> While it's not impossible to build a CDMA version, it would require some more R&D and a separate FCC approval process. Six months is probably a little bit optimistic in that regard, although a CDMA version is sure to be coming eventually.
> 
> ...


China and south are GSM
Korea is CDMA
Japan is whatever NTT DoCoMo uses (their handsets won't work anywhere else)

Swapping the radio tech is really easy, and Qualcom will make it easier. 

The first generation of this phone will have greatest impact here. In Asia and Europe there are already handsets that come close to the iPhone and surpass it in some important areas (like video calls).


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## Trevor... (Feb 21, 2003)

The problem is a drop-in Qualcomm CDMA chipset might not lend itself well to the iPhone. Qualcomm CDMA is something of an entire platform as opposed to just a wireless chip.


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