# Why the hell are macs viewed as toys!?!?



## adam.sn (Feb 7, 2007)

It infuriates me to no end that people are so god damn closed minded about new stuff. Just because you're unfamiliar with something does not mean it's BAD! How the hell did apple end up with a rep of a "non-business" machine? What is the history behind that? I'd gladly stack up my decked out macbook to ANY laptop let alone ANY desktop! 

Gah!!!!! This laptop (and os x in general) can run circles around vista ... hell, it can run circles around vista while it's RUNNING vista! Come hell or high water, I'm going to convert the rest of the world! 

That's it - I'm off to Apple HQ. I want a job.

- Adam


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

:clap: Guy Kawasaki incarnate


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## pictor (Jan 29, 2007)

Only by virtue of the fact that a lot of professional business apps don't have a mac version....which means you don't see a lot of macs in the office, which means the apps don't get written....sort of a self fullfilling prophecy. 

They are every bit as capable or more of course....but someone needs to step up and fill the gap of products that some offices rely on.


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## SoyMac (Apr 16, 2005)

adam.sn said:


> "Why the hell are macs viewed as toys!?!?"


 Because they're so fun! :clap:


.


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## tacsniper (Aug 27, 2007)

This is all you need to do... convince a few CEOs to use a mac in the office and if he gets addicted into it, he will try to change his whole company to mac. Then the staff will get used to it and find PCs are junk and will buy a mac for their own personal use. The CEO will most likely tell another CEO of their new fancy machine in their golf game and the other CEO will then try one and the cycle goes on... so the point is... go hit the leaders, not the peons 

As for those who needs a PC to run software... well thats what boot camp is for 

Gotta love macs


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## irontree (Oct 28, 2006)

I was tickled pink when I went to my doctors office the other day and saw him entering everything into a Mac Mini with an LG monitor. Mighty mouse, and the new apple keyboard as well. According to my wife they have three or four of them there


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## pictor (Jan 29, 2007)

My doctor has used macs for years and years.

G3s mind you, at least last time I was there.


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## cchaynes (Oct 25, 2007)

i can tell you that we do have macs in our business environment, they tend to operate in islands, but do exist....and that company is TD Bank..

i think there will be more of a shift, with citrix java environments applications are becoming more server side and thus client neutral.

I use a mac to work for TD myself and have no issues (well none i am not willing to deal with)


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## Jason H (Feb 1, 2004)

I went to a doctor years ago (2002-ish) and the office was running a few Mac II-cx's and Imagewriters. A winemaking place in Ottawa has a similar old ass mac setup.

My iBook g4 runs circles around any vista computer. A few of my friends and people at school have new pc laptops. HOLY CRAP. the things are like 3" thick. What the hell is that about? My mac book CLOSED is the thickness of their screen! A pretty computer cant be useful.


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## contoursvt (May 1, 2005)

Maybe because the mac mini looks like a toy and the imac is also cute and white. To most business people, computers are tools so maybe to them a mac is like showing up to a meeting with a briefcase that has a cute funny picture. Sure it may do the job but maybe to them, appearances are important and it needs to look professional (which usually is understated). 

Thats my guess. A Mac Pro in my opinion looks professional but the imac or mini do not. Thats my view.


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## BReligion (Jun 21, 2006)

pictor said:


> My doctor has used macs for years and years.
> 
> G3s mind you, at least last time I was there.


MAC Medical has been a staple for years in Doctors Family Practices.. 
There really isn't a product out there that competes with it... Or at least that's what i have heard.


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## tacsniper (Aug 27, 2007)

contoursvt said:


> Maybe because the mac mini looks like a toy and the imac is also cute and white. To most business people, computers are tools so maybe to them a mac is like showing up to a meeting with a briefcase that has a cute funny picture. Sure it may do the job but maybe to them, appearances are important and it needs to look professional (which usually is understated).
> 
> Thats my guess. A Mac Pro in my opinion looks professional but the imac or mini do not. Thats my view.


I agree with you on the white color look more on the "cute/toy" side. I read an article that Apple are seeing more switchers after they switch to the alum iMac. I guess it gets more attention from the more serious people. As for the mac mini, I think it looks fine, its way better than having another wall beside a monitor like those HP/Dell computers or a giant tower with those loud fans sitting on the ground taking up leg space


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## craeyon (Jan 31, 2007)

Its because there are a bunch of politically incorrect idiots (all the tech computer geeks) out there who hate mac for its proprietary hardware, or its software incompatibility or a bunch of arrogant idiots (bachelor of anything other than arts kids) who think that macs are built for people in the arts industry... or anyone who has a bachelor of arts degree... or people who can't afford them and can't learn how to admire them, basically use this reason as a defense mechanism so as to satisfy themselves psychologically. 

I m not a psyc major but I am a bachelor of science and I am also a tech savvy individual who has worked with several OS in the past few years. I can be considered a heavy computer geek per se and yet I continue to sell/promote macs to everyone and everything... and don't consider them a toy because they are very powerfully and elegant piece of machines. So powerful that they can spank Microsoft's arse red.


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## Carl (Jun 7, 2003)

Speak for yourself. My 24 inch iMac is a toy. A real cool toy. 

--even my PC gaming rig is by its design a toy for me, but alas, it can run Solidworks as well--oh wait, I guess my iMac can as well. Nevermind.


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## optical (Dec 31, 2006)

I don't like to admit this, but I am a former Microsoft employee straight out of Redmond Washington. I worked in internal tech support (fixing MS employees stuff). At one point I was moved to one of the many buildings on campus where the MSNBC division was located. Let me tell you my friends I have never seen so many Mac Book Pros in my life. They are definitely alive and kicking at Microsoft, and not just in the MacBU either.


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## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

It's a dated notion, clung onto by ensconced MS-centric zealots (the "PC platform" has them, too). I have always found this Apple page to be handy in (trying to) peel open eyelids to the facts. There are Mac compatible software solutions for just about any need:

http://guide.apple.com/


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## Gizmo (Nov 18, 2003)

Its an IT support dept plot ...Because the IT department sees moving to Macs as a threat to their job security.
Without Macs in business, they have jobs for life.

I work in a large government research organisation, there was a time that all the researchers had Macs. I see them slowly coming back.


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## RISCHead (Jul 20, 2004)

At the risk of stating the obvious, corporations tend to do what makes sense for them in terms of speed of deployment, lifecycles, training, cost, ubiquituousness, skills, user demand, standards etc etc etc. 

Typically, these things change slowly in large IT shops and with good reason.
Apple's slowly making a comeback (inline with their 8% US market penetration) with the MacBook (Pros) becoming more popular, but in a largely commoditized market place it is still cheaper to buy other brands.

There's really no need to spam me with all the standard macophilic counters - I'm on your side and I've heard it all before.


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## DDKD726 (Feb 21, 2005)

well getting back to the question in your subject line, the white model Macs do look a little FisherPricey, no? Not that that's a bad thing, I loved Fisher Price stuff when I was a kid!


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

COST COST COST!!

Macs are quite a bit more expensive than other computers. For the price of a macbook pro a company could buy three Toshiba Satellites that are around 7-800 dollars. When all the employees need to be doing, which is just regular office stuff such as word processing, spread sheets and the odd slide show it really makes no sense to have a Mac. Companies that need more creative and graphic programmes require macs. My friends parents own an advertising firm and they must have other 100 grand in macs. I think macbook pros are a complete overkill unless you are going to be using some demanding programmes like Aperture, Logic or intense graphic rendering. I think PCs are fine computers until they are hooked up to the internet and then they just become complete junk. Until Apple either lowers its prices, created a portable that is under 1000 dollars they will never heavily enter the business market.


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

BReligion said:


> MAC Medical has been a staple for years in Doctors Family Practices..
> There really isn't a product out there that competes with it... Or at least that's what i have heard.


MacMedical is now Practice Solutions Software. They are moving into the other provinces and territories in the country. The product now runs on both platforms but I believe that most of their new sales are still Mac based.


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## Snookaroo (Dec 12, 2007)

*universities too*

even though the university president uses a mac laptop, other senior admin use macs, the library has a bank of macs, many faculty use macs, and apparently upwards to 50% of the laptops sold at the univ's store are macbooks, still the IT folks won't budge. you've got a mac, you're on your own. BUT we're working on them! ongoing lobbying for at least one IT mac person, and so on. it seems ludicrous -- are there other universities where this is the case?


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## Sualocin (Nov 7, 2007)

Adrian. said:


> COST COST COST!!
> Until Apple either lowers its prices, created a portable that is under 1000 dollars they will never heavily enter the business market.


We can only hope that the Keynote in January will fix that.


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

If Apple made a portable for under a grand, EVERYONE would have one. Most people only need laptops for typing, internet etc. There is no need really to even have c2d with 2 gbs of ram etc etc. Put a CD with 512 and sell it for 699 and they will undercut the pc market. On the other hand, if Apple ends up taking even 20-30% of the market, a lot more viruses will start coming out for them. No computer is completely impermeable, hackers just can't be bothered to create a virus for such a niche market, after all hackers are just evil utilitarians.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Because "serious" computers aren't supposed to be easy. Or fun. Or creative.

People who think Macs are "toys" also think rebooting daily, reinstalling monthly and paying someone to fix your machine regularly are part & parcel of the computer experience. They've been BRAINWASHED that computers are HARD and normal people should JUST LEAVE IT TO THE IT GUY.

And of course, the IT guy is very busy pushing this line of crap, because if the boss ever realises that Macs can probably do the job, the IT guy is the one who will suffer. Buh bye $40,000+/year job!!

So what do you THINK they're going to perpetuate??


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Sualocin said:


> We can only hope that the Keynote in January will fix that.


NO!!!

Apple should NEVER EVER aim for the "lowest common denominator" customer, the guy who thinks he should be able to do anything a Hollywood studio can do for $299 MAX.

EVERY SINGLE COMPANY that's aimed at that consumer has either had to retreat and sell high-profit electronics to cover up the losses (Dell, Gateway, Acer) or gone out of business entirely (anyone remember Packard-Bell? How about E-Machines?).

Apple is a PREMIUM PRODUCT. I don't *want* it to get much higher than 10% marketshare, because doing so would involve too many compromises.


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## joltguy (Apr 15, 2005)

Adrian. said:


> COST COST COST!!
> 
> Macs are quite a bit more expensive than other computers. For the price of a macbook pro a company could buy three Toshiba Satellites that are around 7-800 dollars.


This is a tired and very short-sighted argument. Over the life of the machine (which btw tends to be much longer with a Mac), a company will spend *a lot* less time and money maintaining/fixing/reformatting/securing the Mac than they would have to spend on the PC. Guaranteed.

The more frequent downtime of the PC not only increases support/IT staffing costs, but also contributes to decreased employee productivity. The slight premium paid for the Mac at the point of sale is small beans compared to these additional costs that don't show up in the price tag of a typical PC.


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## isnipezunes (Aug 13, 2010)

My mac is an iphone!
My friends think this joke was funny.


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

:yikes:


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

adam.sn said:


> It infuriates me to no end that people are so god damn closed minded about new stuff. Just because you're unfamiliar with something does not mean it's BAD! How the hell did apple end up with a rep of a "non-business" machine? What is the history behind that? I'd gladly stack up my decked out macbook to ANY laptop let alone ANY desktop!
> 
> Gah!!!!! This laptop (and os x in general) can run circles around vista ... hell, it can run circles around vista while it's RUNNING vista! Come hell or high water, I'm going to convert the rest of the world!
> 
> ...


Not with that attitude you won't, mister. Be cool. Show, don't tell. The rest of the world will figure it out eventually. Besides, without all the PC/Android fanboys out there, who could we mock?


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## polywog (Aug 9, 2007)

chas_m said:


> NO!!!
> (anyone remember Packard-Bell? How about E-Machines?).


Packard-Bell is still very much in business, in Europe, Africa and South America. The North American market isn't the only market out there.


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## bryanc (Jan 16, 2004)

Snookaroo said:


> even though the university president uses a mac laptop, other senior admin use macs, the library has a bank of macs, many faculty use macs, and apparently upwards to 50% of the laptops sold at the univ's store are macbooks, still the IT folks won't budge. you've got a mac, you're on your own.... are there other universities where this is the case?


Yes, this is the norm. What it illustrates is that a large IT support team is necessary to manage even a small number of people running Windows. Even as more and more students, faculty and staff switch to Macs, no IT support for us is necessary; the people using macs don't have problems.

This is terrifying to IT... if everyone switches, they'll be out of work. So they do everything they can to get people to stick with Windows.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

It's alive... IT'S ALIVE... another resurrection.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

screature said:


> It's alive... IT'S ALIVE... another resurrection.


Reminds me of the time the boys nailed Cartman to a cross...


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## pcronin (Feb 20, 2005)

bryanc said:


> Yes, this is the norm. What it illustrates is that a large IT support team is necessary to manage even a small number of people running Windows. Even as more and more students, faculty and staff switch to Macs, no IT support for us is necessary; the people using macs don't have problems.
> 
> This is terrifying to IT... if everyone switches, they'll be out of work. So they do everything they can to get people to stick with Windows.


not quite. Windows world is focused on management and ease of deployment from the IT side. Not many in IT are actually "terrified" of Macs, it's more the inability of a bureaucracy to evolve. As the Apple products slide themselves into the market, the upper IT (or the ones in charge of the server maintenance at least) have to figure out how to make Apples play nice with the established infrastructure. Now it would become easier to have windows OS on clients because they "just work" with the backend. Other than an OS X Server in there (which then requires at least 1 IT member to become Apple certified), there are major headaches with trying to support these Macbooks vs a Windows 7. 

That being said, I would rather have the Macs for end user ease. 

and hooray for necro threads


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## patrickz (Sep 17, 2010)

Macs are great toys, as well as great tools.


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## Chimpur (May 1, 2009)

It's hard not to repeat anything already said, but; anytime a large group sees a small group growing that does what they do but not only does it better, but faster they feel threatened. I mean if your livelihood was threatened wouldn't you try and stop the change?

Besides, if Macs were the majority we wouldn't have as much fun promoting and bragging about them to windows users. The underdog mentality wouldn't work either.


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## SoyMac (Apr 16, 2005)

Chimpur said:


> ... if Macs were the majority we wouldn't have as much fun promoting and bragging about them to windows users. The underdog mentality wouldn't work either.


So true. 
I tell my Windows-using friends to never switch, that Windows machines are just as good, and cheaper than Macs. And I tell them that Macs are toys. And that we can't get very much software for Macs. And that we can't play video on our Macs, and we can't Right-Click.

When that fails, I beseech them, won't somebody _please_ think of us smug, arrogant Apple users, who live to look down with disdain upon the unwashed masses!
If everyone switches, what will become of us?! 

(Wow! Jumped from December 2007, to October 2010. Is that some kind of record?!)


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

SoyMac said:


> So true.
> I tell my Windows-using friends to never switch, that Windows machines are just as good, and cheaper than Macs. And I tell them that Macs are toys. And that we can't get very much software for Macs. And that we can't play video on our Macs, and we can't Right-Click.
> 
> When that fails, I beseech them, won't somebody _please_ think of us smug, arrogant Apple users, who live to look down with disdain upon the unwashed masses!
> ...


Exactly! That ruins the feeling o having a superior computer. I've changed my mentallity from telling people than Mac is supriour to whatever floats your boat, people should research more and find out for themselves. Another thing I used to promote l, but despise is hackintoshing. Ohhhhh OS X on a PC WHOAAA I can't see any comparability issues -.- of course people like a deal, but I'd rather shell out 2 grand more than to have headaches every single time something doesn't click or work. 
(I must say jumping from 2007 to 2010 is REALLY impressive, normally a forum would get closed, no?)


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## jagga (Jul 23, 2005)

pcronin said:


> not quite. Windows world is focused on management and ease of deployment from the IT side. Not many in IT are actually "terrified" of Macs, it's more the inability of a bureaucracy to evolve. As the Apple products slide themselves into the market, the upper IT (or the ones in charge of the server maintenance at least) have to figure out how to make Apples play nice with the established infrastructure. Now it would become easier to have windows OS on clients because they "just work" with the backend. Other than an OS X Server in there (which then requires at least 1 IT member to become Apple certified), there are major headaches with trying to support these Macbooks vs a Windows 7.
> 
> That being said, I would rather have the Macs for end user ease.
> 
> and hooray for necro threads


I'm beginning to see more corporations warming up to the idea or the ideal that Mac's "could or might" offer a better user experience and if tools work then lessor costs to IT head count or better IT support. 

The current company I work at does not restrict VPN access via an RSA token; not like the iPhone cannot support it. Also with company purchased iPads for employee parties as a top prize and 3 executives that use the iPad - personally purchased - and used for charting or whatever they do use it for all without IT support is VERY surprising.

I'd like to add that 1 of our global offices dumped BES+BB support for almost 3mths going to iPhone only to be screwed due to small carrier in the USA being bought out by Verizon … which leaves out the iPhone capability and thus will need to go back to BES/BB solution - unless another carrier in that coverage area can support the iPhone. On top of this our financial infrastructure is beginning to test on iPhones over a VPN connection - which worked flawlessly and VERY quickly from what I've been told, but excessing scrolling is an annoyance and could pose an issue of support which could get dropped.

As more corporations consider going to Windows 7 (32-bit, 64-bit especially) they're beginning to realize specific WinXP 32-bit applications: Remedy, RS400 IBM stand alone sessions or via Hummingbird, etc, etc - issues could arrise where upgrading to newer licensing can be costly in terms of time and legacy support and slower roll-out along with customized applications/server tools with 3rd party direct support is hurting them (Citrix Neighborhood/Hummingbird/etc). With Office 2011 rolling out shortly with incredible Exchange 2007/2010 server support and a great layout - that all important collaboration is there. We already know that Lotus Notes runs on OSX for many years and is pretty much the same tool as is on Windows and its very robust. 

If ticket systems, email clients connecting to servers, along with industry standard word/slide-show/database & spreadsheet file support is there … then only the legacy tools provide an issue. Should an Apple evangelist get the opportunity to lead a sales pitch along with how their existing tools infrastructure can work - even with proper HTML support for legacy apps hosted on a server - without the disdain of superior OS X complex all done with professionalism and a clear portrayment of honor to be able to highlight OS X then we could see a change. 

Ultimately Apple needs to push advertisement for corporate uptake of OS X Server and client; and please no more "Lemons" commercials as that is insultive and hurtful to their computing, tablet, and smartphone business.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Rather ironic that for most home users, the big selling point for Windoze boxes is gaming.


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

eMacMan said:


> Rather ironic that for most home users, the big selling point for Windoze boxes is gaming.


That's the only good point about PCs and fanboys go on and on talking how macs can't play games. Sure they can, it's called boot camp also OS X has the best included media programs for free- iLife, we can argue about that to no extent. A computer that you use at home should be a mix of entertainment and productivity. Macs have have the perfect balance, if you wanted more entertainment, use boot camp. Development? Macs are perfect, because you can test your software on all platforms- OS X, Windows and Linux/open source OSes


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## BostonPro (Oct 11, 2010)

In the radio environment, our software isn't supported by mac otherwise we would've been mac all the way  Very sad because if it were my choice, everything would be apple <3


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

eMacMan said:


> Rather ironic that for most home users, the big selling point for Windoze boxes is gaming.


Too true!


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## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

pcronin said:


> not quite. Windows world is focused on management and ease of deployment from the IT side. Not many in IT are actually "terrified" of Macs, it's more the inability of a bureaucracy to evolve.


You said it. Companies need to realize that IT is there to serve the employees, not the other way around. IT departments spend huge amounts of money and time locking corporations up into their favourite proprietary solution, and spend even more customizing it to work within the organization.

I used to work as a developer in a university IT department. We spent huge amounts of time customizing a purchased "off-the-shelf" Banner system (which was Windows only at the time). Several developers and years later it still wasn't finished being customized to meet the needs of the university. With the same amount of developers a custom written platform based on standards that could have worked on any platform and worked better, and in half the amount of time.


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## kkritsilas (Mar 1, 2010)

I used to work at Philips Electronics in Montreal (a PC manufacturing facility). We ended up replacing the MRP (Manufacturing Resource Planning) system. Headquarters, in Eindhoven, Netherlands/Holland said we could buy any off the shelf system we wanted, but there would not be any resources for any customization at all, in any way, shape or form. System was brought in, data was moved over, a few trials were run, and all requests for customization were sent to the MRP system designers. Some were accepted, and some weren't, but all were supported right from the originals MRP system developers, no customization in house. After a short time, people used it just fine, no issues, and in house resources were devoted to in house PC support and sending bug reports and customization requests to the MRP developers.

It can be made to work, if there is firm enough control and proper specifications are written.

Kostas


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

> Companies need to realize that IT is there to serve the employees, not the other way around.


ding ding ding.


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## powerman (Sep 3, 2010)

The mac ads between mac and pc, are very good, but they usually deal with the mac being fun and easy to use, but not as good as pc for boring work. Good ad campain but the side affect is more of a toy than a work horse. To bad because I would use my mac for work. If they made a rugid version I would want it for work. As it is I use a panasonic toughbook running xp for work. It is slow, and painful. I love my mac!


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## chrisburke (May 11, 2010)

The doc who did my sons circumcision uses Mac in the office.. And I told him how happy that made me'


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## Smoothfonzo (May 17, 2007)

For what it's worth, at Science North here in Sudbury, their network is all Mac. No PCs in sight, from front desk to individual offices, and they're an agency of the Ontario government.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

chrisburke said:


> The doc who did my sons circumcision uses Mac in the office.. And I told him how happy that made me'


Uh……hey, that's good to hear. I don't suppose the computer choice gives this doctor a higher degree of……ah……precision?


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

eMacMan said:


> Rather ironic that for most home users, the big selling point for Windoze boxes is gaming.


I don't normally get into any of the Mac/Winbox gaming discussions as I'm not a big computer 'gamer' user.

But I was surprised to read recently of a few recent reports that some of the high end Winbox users who had switched to using some of the latest Mac models could run the "games" faster and better.

A case in point is our single Mum neighbour multi Mac user whose son, a high end computer an xbox gamer, had a custom made Winbox built to be "one of the best" and "much cheaper than a new Mac".

But the last time I checked, he had spent over 3X the cost of a high end Mac before things were finally working anywhere close to what he was wanting.

No, a Mac is not a toy, but it sure can be used as one. ie: Just another reason to use one. ;-)


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