# Tires and Seasons: How do you manage?



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

For those who own and maintain cars: Do you purchase separate sets of tires for summer and winter, or do you just roll on all-seasons 12 months a year? I just recently purchased a set of high-end winter tires for around $440.00 to go along with my summer-only performance tires that ran me $660.00 back in May of this same year after my OEM all-season tires wore down and out (and one went flat). I found that my OEM all-seasons were simply terrible for snow driving (they felt like they were designed only for dry pavement), so I bit the bullet and now have two sets for each season accordingly (the performance tires make the ride at least twice as comfortable and more fun during the summer time over the OEM's - it's unreal the difference).


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

Very nicely thank-you


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## Mad Mac (Mar 13, 2005)

I always ran all-seasons in the summer and winters in the winter on my car when I had it. I ran all-season year round on my truck last year. I'm thinking about getting winters for the truck this year. Even the cheapest winter tires will be far better in snow and ice then all-seasons.


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## zoziw (Jul 7, 2006)

I just buy a good set of all season tires and run them year round. Though I didn't buy the current tires on the car I bought last spring.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

I have separate Winter tires and rims on the cars I drive year round.

It's a bit of a chore to change and store extra wheels and tires, but after seeing some folks sliding around on the way home tonight I'm glad I do!

A second set of tires costs a bit extra up front, but they don't cost much extra in the long run, since your Summer tires will last longer.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

You do not survive the St.John's winters without snow tires. I don't like studs on my tires, but they are needed some days. I hate winter driving, and so I don't go out unless I must.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

Dr.G. - are you in walking distance to some necessities?


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

I have separate winter tires with their own rims. I'm astonished at some people who believe all-seasons are fine for winter.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

i have summer tires on summer rims and winter tires on winter rims
winter tires are a must for a rear wheel drive car


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## talonracer (Dec 30, 2003)

I have a summer Talon and a winter Talon. Extreme summer and winter tyres on both. I have to be careful with the summer one and make sure I park it early enough - the tyres are fantastic on dry or wet, but throw down the slightest bit of snow or ice and they retract just like you would if you stepped barefoot onto the same.

Conversely I have to be careful with the winter one as well, don't want to be driving it too late into the season or I'll melt my tyres!

Obsess much? Why yes, thank you I will!


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

Dude... aren't you moving to downtown Toronto? All Seasons will do you fine here.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

I'm in Leslieville myself and though 98% of our driving is in the city every Christmas we're on the road to Montreal, then Ottawa, then back to Montreal and from there a bee line back to TO. Most of the time the weather is fair but I've driven through some pretty hairy blizzards and whiteouts on the 401. We also visit friends in Northumberland Country pretty regularly, including the winter, and having all-wheel drive on winter tires is an extra bit of insurance I don't mind paying for. It's worth it to us to have bought a separate set of winters and rims and get them on the car around... _now,_ come to think of it. Could make all the difference one day. And the car definitely handles better in snow with true winter tires.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

da_jonesy said:


> Dude... aren't you moving to downtown Toronto? All Seasons will do you fine here.


My friend's girlfriend didn't want to spring for Winter tires, and she figured she didn't need them because she works in downtown Calgary and takes the train to work most of the time.

One day she took her car because she had an appointment with the dentist - and ended up sliding under a semi. Thanks to some quick action on the part of the truck driver nobody was hurt - but she has Winter tires, and a different car, now.

For those that don't want the hassle and expense of two sets of wheels and tires, there are some all seasons that are biased more towards Winter conditions. Nokian makes such tires, there may be others as well. These tires will give up some handling in dry conditions compared to more performance oriented tires, and likely won't last all that long, but are probably a good compromise for people who drive in Canada and only want one set of tires.


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## moonsocket (Apr 1, 2002)

I have all seasons right now. The first small snow we had I could barely make it up the York St hill here (Lars will know that hill). Unfortunately I can't afford winter tires.

The Jetta we used to have had all seaons on what set of rims and winter on another. I would love to be able to get another set of winter on rims.


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

PenguinBoy said:


> My friend's girlfriend didn't want to spring for Winter tires, and she figured she didn't need them because she works in downtown Calgary and takes the train to work most of the time.
> 
> One day she took her car because she had an appointment with the dentist - and ended up sliding under a semi. Thanks to some quick action on the part of the truck driver nobody was hurt - but she has Winter tires, and a different car, now.
> 
> For those that don't want the hassle and expense of two sets of wheels and tires, there are some all seasons that are biased more towards Winter conditions. Nokian makes such tires, there may be others as well. These tires will give up some handling in dry conditions compared to more performance oriented tires, and likely won't last all that long, but are probably a good compromise for people who drive in Canada and only want one set of tires.


Dude sorry to hear about your GFs accident... But there is a HUGE difference between driving in Winter in Calgary as compared to Toronto.


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## mazirion (May 22, 2005)

I have a winter set on rims in the shed. I drive 45k's to/from work and need them!

Although having said that, this winter I am just leaving the cruddy all-seasons on. But then I am heading to the high Arctic in a couple weeks where the pick-up truck I'll be driving is equipped with 4 independant tracks. Rats - no more speeding down the runway at 139 kph!

I can never understand people when it comes to their personal safety on the roads. Too many people drive all-season in the winter. Having winters on my car means I can evade the people without!


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## miguelsanchez (Feb 1, 2005)

Both of our cars wear Nokian WR and we think they are great. 

We made the trek out to Tremblant last winter and they performed beautifully. I used to change the tires every year but since we are in a condo, storage space is at a premium, not to mention garage space to change tires, so we now have the Nokians.

They are not noisy in dry conditions, and so far the wear seems to be very good. I also rotate the tires at every oil change = 10,000km.

Good luck,

Miguel


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I run off-road tires on my 4 x 4 all year long for traction in all circumstances. I have a set of four winter tires on separate rims for the van and change them spring and fall.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

da_jonesy said:


> Dude... aren't you moving to downtown Toronto? All Seasons will do you fine here.


if you have good rims (eg aluminum) it may pay to get steel winter rims to save the summer rims

aluminum rims do very poorly vs. salt


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> if you have good rims (eg aluminum) it may pay to get steel winter rims to save the summer rims
> 
> aluminum rims do very poorly vs. salt


This is very true as my Mazda MPV rims can attest to.


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## LaurieR (Feb 9, 2006)

We bought winter tires last year for the first time because I drive a long way to work, on two highways. But even when I'm no longer a commuter, I'll still use them. They don't just make a difference on highways, even for city driving they are so much safer. Having slid out of control (followed by an accident that could have been horrible) on a city street in Toronto, I don't buy the excuse that you don't need them because you live in the city.

I always say this: you don't ever want to have an accident and wish you'd sprung for the winter tires. Don't be cheap on this one.


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## maximusbibicus (Feb 25, 2002)

Lars said:


> I just recently purchased a set of high-end winter tires for around $440.00


High end winters for $440? Not even close. more like low to midrange for your car.

Anyways, I have two sets and really see the benefits. Even if we don't get a whole lot of snow the tires are worth it. All season tires just don't grip when the temps get below zero. Braking times increase, cornering speeds decrease. The soft compound of the winter tire shines in this aspect.


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## maximusbibicus (Feb 25, 2002)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> if you have good rims (eg aluminum) it may pay to get steel winter rims to save the summer rims
> 
> aluminum rims do very poorly vs. salt


Clearcoated rims yes. Painted and "matte" rims do just fine, for the most part.


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

So um lets look at it this way... In your spacious accommodation in the heart of downtown Toronto, where were you thinking of storing your winter tires?


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## LaurieR (Feb 9, 2006)

da_jonesy said:


> So um lets look at it this way... In your spacious accommodation in the heart of downtown Toronto, where were you thinking of storing your winter tires?


Under the bed? In the corner? At a friend's? Wherever...

Honestly, if your excuse for not getting them is storage, there's really no point in taking the discussion any further...


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## maximusbibicus (Feb 25, 2002)

da_jonesy said:


> So um lets look at it this way... In your spacious accommodation in the heart of downtown Toronto, where were you thinking of storing your winter tires?


Basement, storage locker, friend's place. Its not an easy situation for everyone, but if i didn't have a garage i'd find somewhere to store them.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

Finding storage space for your set of tires can indeed be a problem. I sympathize! But I'd rather be saddled with that problem than be too poor to afford a proper set of tires that could turn out to save my life when the weather turns rotten.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

da_jonesy said:


> Dude sorry to hear about your GFs accident... But there is a HUGE difference between driving in Winter in Calgary as compared to Toronto.


Actually it was my *friends* girlfriend, not mine. Not to sure about TO, but the last week here in Calgary has been ample justification for Winter Tires.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

da_jonesy said:


> So um lets look at it this way... In your spacious accommodation in the heart of downtown Toronto, where were you thinking of storing your winter tires?


In this situation the Nokian's mentioned earlier might be a good compromise.


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## SoyMac (Apr 16, 2005)

*Neither*

My option is not available on this poll.
I wish I could afford to ride summer tires _and_ winter tires.

But I ride on winter tires year round.


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## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

Summer tires = dry pavement
Winter tires = snow and ice
All seasons = wet and rain

All season are given the wrong name, because of the name people assume they are okay in winter conditions. They might be okay in some more climate places, but in Canada, they are useless in the winter, they can't handle cold weather very well and provide no traction in the snow. 
Use the right tire for the right condition. Unfortunately here in Canada, you must use snow tires in the winter, and switch them up in the spring for summers or all seasons.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

SoyMac said:


> My option is not available on this poll.
> I wish I could afford to ride summer tires _and_ winter tires.
> 
> But I ride on winter tires year round.


This is actually more expensive in the long run, as the soft rubber compounds used in Winter tires will wear very quickly in warm weather on dry pavement.

At least you'll have decent traction on icy roads.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

True enough that the winter tires wear quickly. I try to get them off as soon as the early spring hits.


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## DBF (May 4, 2005)

*Tires and Seasons*

On my Rav-4 I use two sets, all seasons and dedicated mud and snows, including rims. I drive to Tremblant to ski and my chalet is on a rather steep grade (15%), all seasons are just not good enough.

Storage can be a big problem. I live in a condo but I was able to find a mechanic on the outskirts of Cornwall who has a barn where he keeps the spares for his customers. And no charge. Works for me.


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

I own a Santa Fe with awd and I will be sticking with the all season tires that came with it. When I had fwd cars I would allways have 2 sets of tires and rims for them no matter where I drove out in the burbs or downtown.

Laterz


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

> Summer tires = dry pavement
> Winter tires = snow and ice
> All seasons = wet and rain


True, for the most part. My high-performance summer tires excel in wet/rainy conditions, and the grip on even the most watery roads is outstanding. If you get a good set of performance tires, all-season tires effectively serve no purpose at all.

As per tire storage, there are plenty of places that will store your tires on your behalf until the next season comes around. One place here in Halifax will securely store all 4 of your tires/wheels for $40.00 for the season. That's hardly a high price to pay if you don't have the room yourself.


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## maximusbibicus (Feb 25, 2002)

SoyMac said:


> My option is not available on this poll.
> I wish I could afford to ride summer tires _and_ winter tires.
> 
> But I ride on winter tires year round.


After a couple of months use in hot weather, the compound that makes winter tires so valuable is destroyed. I had a friend that ran his winters in the summer on his Integra. By the end of the summer you could pick the rubber off the tires.  The car's performance in the summer must be brutal.


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## Arcy (Jul 26, 2004)

This is a great THREAD  Coming from a tropical country, I am just learning how to cope with winter driving in Canada. I wanted to get winter tires for this season but due to my limited budget, I settled for all-season tires which I hope will hold-up in the "mild" winter the "experts" are forecasting this year. Next year, I will definitely get winter tires so as to minimise my car skating around Waterloo and Kitchener


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

K_OS said:


> I own a Santa Fe with awd and I will be sticking with the all season tires that came with it. When I had fwd cars I would allways have 2 sets of tires and rims for them no matter where I drove out in the burbs or downtown.


I run separate Winter and Summer tires on my Subaru with AWD. Even though AWD is excellent for improving control and keeping from getting you stuck in snow, it doesn't do much in a panic stop situation.


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## talonracer (Dec 30, 2003)

I love playing with AWD in the snow!!


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

PenguinBoy said:


> I run separate Winter and Summer tires on my Subaru with AWD. Even though AWD is excellent for improving control and keeping from getting you stuck in snow, it doesn't do much in a panic stop situation.


I do agree and my brother does have a Subaru WRX with 2 sets of tires and rims and on that car it does make a world of difference, as for the Santa Fe I took the awd into consideration but my brother owned one as well a few years ago and the tires that were on his had a more aggressive thread for offroading and helped in the snow, so this year I will try the stock tires out and be carefull in the snow otherwise I will buy a set of winters for the following winter.

Laterz


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## spudmac (Aug 23, 2002)

*Nokian WRs*

Hey Folks,

Anyone ever tried the Nokian WRs? They are the only set of All Seasons that have a winter rating. The Toronto Star Wheels section has reviewed them a couple of times over the past few years and they always recommend them for people who maybe don't want to go with two sets of tires. My van needs a new set of tires and with winter soon to be here... I'm tempted. Here is a link to the Star article (I've never put a link in a post before, so I hope it works).

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...geid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1164279188778

If any of you have tried them, please let us know how you like them.

spudmac


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## miguelsanchez (Feb 1, 2005)

spudmac said:


> Hey Folks,
> 
> Anyone ever tried the Nokian WRs?


See post #17 in this thread.


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## spudmac (Aug 23, 2002)

*Oops, somehow missed that post!*

Title says it all. Thanks Miguel, I'm glad to hear that they are not that noisy. Where did you have them put on. My mechanic was not familiar with them, but said he would order them in if I wished. Also, what vehicle(s) do you have them on? 

spudmac


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## SoyMac (Apr 16, 2005)

PenguinBoy said:


> This is actually more expensive in the long run, as the soft rubber compounds used in Winter tires will wear very quickly in warm weather on dry pavement.
> At least you'll have decent traction on icy roads.


That's what I hear from the experts, but me and my other non-expert, low-income friends run on winter tires year round for years with no noticeable depreciation in performance. I'm in a CRV now, but I did the same in a Cherokee.


maximusbibicus said:


> After a couple of months use in hot weather, the compound that makes winter tires so valuable is destroyed. I had a friend that ran his winters in the summer on his Integra. By the end of the summer you could pick the rubber off the tires.  The car's performance in the summer must be brutal.


Can't pick the rubber off _my_ tires  (mid-price Canadian Tire jobbies). 
As for summer performance, I don't know how one would test that.

But anyway, since most winter driving around Ottawa is actually done on clear to wet roads, with minimal actual on-snow driving, I don't really see a huge difference to the tires between driving in winter, or driving in summer.


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## miguelsanchez (Feb 1, 2005)

spudmac said:


> Title says it all. Thanks Miguel, I'm glad to hear that they are not that noisy. Where did you have them put on. My mechanic was not familiar with them, but said he would order them in if I wished. Also, what vehicle(s) do you have them on?
> 
> spudmac


Let's Roll Tire Ltd 
750 Oakdale Rd., Unit #34 (near Finch & Hwy. 400) 
Toronto, Ontario 
M3N 2Z4 
(416) 654-8433 

Saab 9-3 - size P19560R15
Honda Civic - size P18565R14


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

Hmmm....

Never had winter tires. So far, hasn't seemed like a big problem. I drive slower in a blizzard. 

I've skidded out once during a bad blizzard on the 407 when I was driving from Toronto to Waterloo for an exam--was doing fine at around 70, tried speeding up a bit, turned out that was a bad idea. Landed in the median. Got back on the road and stayed at 70. Made it to the exam on time.

These days I drive less and less anyway.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

SoyMac said:


> But anyway, since most winter driving around Ottawa is actually done on clear to wet roads, with minimal actual on-snow driving, I don't really see a huge difference to the tires between driving in winter, or driving in summer.


Temperature is one big difference - the rubber on Winter tires just isn't made to hold up on dry roads on a +30 C day.

That said, if you aren't driving that much you could probably get by using Winter tires in Summer, and if you get a "performance" oriented Winter tire they won't even handle too bad on dry roads - although they wouldn't be as good as Summer tires for handling.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

Sonal said:


> Never had winter tires. So far, hasn't seemed like a big problem. I drive slower in a blizzard.
> 
> I've skidded out once during a bad blizzard on the 407 when I was driving from Toronto to Waterloo for an exam--was doing fine at around 70, tried speeding up a bit, turned out that was a bad idea. Landed in the median. Got back on the road and stayed at 70. Made it to the exam on time.


It would be interesting to hear your description of a "big problem" - the incident you describe above would certainly put the fear in me!


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I tend run all seasons - I liked Tiger Paws in the past and I find the long wheel base of the van plus front wheel drive makes it very stable and with good traction.

We do drive into bad snow areas from time to time - the Nokian WRs sound like a really good solution as I need new tires as well.

Anyone know where to get them in the GTA ( thanks for the tip BTW ).


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## spudmac (Aug 23, 2002)

*Where to find Nokian WRs GTA*



MacDoc said:


> I tend run all seasons - I liked Tiger Paws in the past and I find the long wheel base of the van plus front wheel drive makes it very stable and with good traction.
> 
> We do drive into bad snow areas from time to time - the Nokian WRs sound like a really good solution as I need new tires as well.
> 
> Anyone know where to get them in the GTA ( thanks for the tip BTW ).


Hi MacDoc,

I've found the following places (from Nokian website). Hope this helps. Maybe if we get a couple of more guys we can get a "fleet discount". 

Kal Tire - Mississauga
2403 Stanfield Road
Mississauga
905-848-3500

Halton Tire Center
68A Main Street
Georgetown
905-877-5110

Kennedy Auto Center
1170 Eglinton Ave E Unit 1
Mississauga 
905-568-2800

Good luck... I'll probably be calling these places myself this weekend.

spudmac


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Another a little closer to me

Colalillo Automotive Svc
3300 Mavis Rd?Mississauga ON, L5C 1T8
Phone: 905-672-6122


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

PenguinBoy said:


> It would be interesting to hear your description of a "big problem" - the incident you describe above would certainly put the fear in me!


At the time it was pretty scary. No injuries though, to either my car or myself, thanks to a fair bit of luck. Plus, it was only my second year of driving, and my first really slippery snowstorm.

But the lesson I came out of it with was not "get snow tires." It was "if the roads are slippery, drive slower."

Haven't skidded out since. If the roads are bad I either wait it out or I take it slow and careful and leave myself lots of braking room.

I think if I was skidding or nearly skidding more often, I'd get snow tires. But once in 6 years ago because I was didn't know much about winter driving doesn't seem like a big problem to me.


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## ErnstNL (Apr 12, 2003)

Our new Focus wagon has Goodyear Eagle RS-A's. 
I'll let you know what they're like when we get some snow.


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## maximusbibicus (Feb 25, 2002)

ErnstNL said:


> Our new Focus wagon has Goodyear Eagle RS-A's.
> I'll let you know what they're like when we get some snow.


I know those tires pretty well. Below average to average in the snow, average in rain, and below average in the dry (all temps). This is if you are a spirited driver. If you are more passive and stay well below the car's limit you won't mind them. 

They are par for the course for OEM tires, when replacing them there is no way i'd pay to get new ones. 

You should like your Focus. Really underrated car. An ex of mine had one and I loved putting it through its paces. Head and shoulders above other domestics in its price range in terms of handling and vehicle dynamics. Its a pity it didn't get a few more hp.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

ErnstNL said:


> Our new Focus wagon has Goodyear Eagle RS-A's.
> I'll let you know what they're like when we get some snow.


My OEM tires were TOYO RS-A's. They lasted just under 16,000 KM before wearing completely out, and sucked completely in snow conditions. Glad I have some real tires now.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

maximusbibicus said:


> You should like your Focus. Really underrated car. An ex of mine had one and I loved putting it through its paces. Head and shoulders above other domestics in its price range in terms of handling and vehicle dynamics. Its a pity it didn't get a few more hp.


I picked up a used SVT Focus in the Summer as a commuter, and so far I've been very pleased with it - the handling and brakes are top notch, and the power is adequate if you keep the revs up. Since it's a hatchback it's also quite practical and roomy, and it's reasonably economical to run.

I run separate Winter tires on this car as well, which is especially important as the Summer tires are actual Summer tires as opposed to all seasons.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

PenguinBoy - standard transmission?


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## MacAndy (May 17, 2004)

I've run all-seasons on the past three Ford Escapes we have owned with little or no problem. I think the biggest misconception about winter tires is that you think you can still drive like Mario Andretti in the middle of a blizzard. Wake up. No tire is going to save your ass if you drive like a moron in winter. Everyone needs to be very conscious of the road conditions regardless of their tires. I generally drive a little more agressively than most, but once the snow hits, my attitude changes too, I adapt with the road conditions, and this is where most people fail at winter driving.

Winter tires are only going to help more on heavy snow-covered roads in a straight line acceleration. Cornering is anyone's guess due to speed, ice, a vehicle weight to rim/tire size. The Ford Escape is very stable and with most of the weight on the front wheel drive [our first was AWD, 2nd and recent Escapes just FWD] and handle beautifully in snow with all seasons. I just don't drive it hard otherwise I know I'm just asking for trouble. My mums 85 Topaz, a 98 Contour we had, all front wheel drive, drove fine in snow on all seasons. My dad's 72 Chevelle and 80 Malibu on the other hand - you *had* to have snows on a rear wheel drive car, no question.

As for acceleration on all-seasons in snow, if you push it to the floor you can expect to slip and slide and make a fool of yourself pulling away from a light. If you start off lightly and gradually increase the acceleration you will leave the light in a straight line and get where you're going without problem.

You can always blame the snow and plead your case once you've crashed, but quite honestly, most accidents are caused by human error. Don't rely on or blame the tires on your vehicle.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

Lars said:


> PenguinBoy - standard transmission?


All my cars are standard transmission: 4 speed + OD on my old MGB, 5 speed on the Subaru, and 6 speed on the Focus.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

MacAndy said:


> ...I think the biggest misconception about winter tires is that you think you can still drive like Mario Andretti in the middle of a blizzard. Wake up. No tire is going to save your ass if you drive like a moron in winter. Everyone needs to be very conscious of the road conditions regardless of their tires.
> 
> You can always blame the snow and plead your case once you've crashed, but quite honestly, most accidents are caused by human error. Don't rely on or blame the tires on your vehicle.


Agreed! No tires are going to let you get away with reckless driving. But like AWD, ABS, etc. Winter tires can provide an extra margin of safety in icy conditions.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

From personal experience I think tires with good shoulder design are a bit more controllable in cornering - the slushy, icy, dry road mix we get in the GTA can lead to nasty surprises at low speed.

I did $800 damage to the van sliding slideways into a curb - I was doing 5 kmh 

So I'd say picking an All Season with strong shoulder tread or going to winter tires might help in mixed conditions.

Of course traction is better in full snow.

That Ice Tire ad is pretty effective ( doorman at a hotel )


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## maximusbibicus (Feb 25, 2002)

PenguinBoy said:


> I picked up a used SVT Focus in the Summer as a commuter, and so far I've been very pleased with it - the handling and brakes are top notch, and the power is adequate if you keep the revs up. Since it's a hatchback it's also quite practical and roomy, and it's reasonably economical to run.
> 
> I run separate Winter tires on this car as well, which is especially important as the Summer tires are actual Summer tires as opposed to all seasons.


Nice. Everything i mentioned was in regards to the standard Focus. The SVT kicks it up a notch.


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## ErnstNL (Apr 12, 2003)

maximusbibicus said:


> I know those tires pretty well. Below average to average in the snow, average in rain, and below average in the dry (all temps). This is if you are a spirited driver. If you are more passive and stay well below the car's limit you won't mind them.
> 
> They are par for the course for OEM tires, when replacing them there is no way i'd pay to get new ones.
> 
> You should like your Focus. Really underrated car. An ex of mine had one and I loved putting it through its paces. Head and shoulders above other domestics in its price range in terms of handling and vehicle dynamics. Its a pity it didn't get a few more hp.


Update:Snow and slush today. Not too bad. I will give another opinion when we get more than 10 cm of snow. I'm not expecting much, just to get through this winter. 
I tried Bridgestones A/S as replacements on our last wagon, the tires weighed more than the OEMs and the handling went a bit off. I'll be more careful this time.
We've been very happy with the Focus. I agree it's underrated. Brakes and headlights are awesome.
This is our 3rd Focus wagon. The OEM engine this year is a DOHC 16V with a lot more guts than the other 2 we had.
This year we got it with a winter package: heated seats and mirrors. :love2: The heated seats are a blessing, excellent if you have a bad back like my wife. My mother loves the heated seats too. Never had them before on any of our cars.


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

I didn't read the whole thread, so I don't know if studded tires were discussed, but I remember seeing an episode of Marketplace several years ago where they tested various tires for stopping ability on snow and ice. Studded snow tires had a stopping distance that was far shorter than other snow tires. And snow tires, IIRC, were around half the stopping distance of all-seasons.

If I lived someplace where winter was more than an occasional 3-day freak occurrence, I would probably have studded tires on for that reason. In this part of BC putting on snow tires for a few days of snow seems a bit much (on the Gulf Islands we have some years where we never see a snowfall that stays on the ground). 

I was going to get a new set of all seasons a few weeks ago, but procrastinated. I've heard that for this area all seasons with at least 50% tread are OK. Unfortunately mine are below that, so I haven't driven the car since we got our freak November snowstorm. The roads are finally clear of ice today after slowly melting for a couple of days.


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## talonracer (Dec 30, 2003)

I had a BMW with studded rear tyres. I'm not overly confident on RWD, being a FWD / AWD guy. The studded tyres did really seem to help improve stopping and overall confidence in the car. Of course, then I got my second Talon and that was the end of that - but I agree, if you are in a very icy/snowy region, investigate studded tyres.


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## talonracer (Dec 30, 2003)

I should also suggest the tyres I have on my winter Talon - Goodyear Eagle Ultragrip. They're absolutely amazing.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

i own a rear wheel drive BMW and since i commute from shangri-la to toronto i don't know if i could use studded tires along the 400 

my needs are a good snow tire, but one that isn't too loud for highway driving


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> i own a rear wheel drive BMW and since i commute from shangri-la to toronto i don't know if i could use studded tires along the 400
> 
> my needs are a good snow tire, but one that isn't too loud for highway driving


You might consider some "performance" oriented Winter tires, which will give you ~slightly~ less Winter traction than a more aggressive Winter tire, but won't trash the handling of your car as much.

I have had a set of Michelin "Pilot Alpins" (review here: http://www.canadiandriver.com/winter/tires/alpin.htm) on my Subaru for the past couple of seasons, and have done *lots* of Winter highway driving with them. I have been quite pleased with their performance - they might be a good choice for your E36 BMW.

I have Hankook "Ice Bears" on the Focus (http://www.1010tires.com/tire.asp?tirebrand=Hankook&tiremodel=Icebear+W300), but haven't really done any long trips in Winter with it. These are also considered a "performance" Winter tire, and are a Bang for the Buck alternative to the Alpins. So far I've been pleased with them, but have only been using them around town to drive to work.


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## maximusbibicus (Feb 25, 2002)

PenguinBoy said:


> You might consider some "performance" oriented Winter tires, which will give you ~slightly~ less Winter traction than a more aggressive Winter tire, but won't trash the handling of your car as much.
> 
> I have had a set of Michelin "Pilot Alpins" (review here: http://www.canadiandriver.com/winter/tires/alpin.htm) on my Subaru for the past couple of seasons, and have done *lots* of Winter highway driving with them. I have been quite pleased with their performance - they might be a good choice for your E36 BMW.
> 
> I have Hankook "Ice Bears" on the Focus (http://www.1010tires.com/tire.asp?tirebrand=Hankook&tiremodel=Icebear+W300), but haven't really done any long trips in Winter with it. These are also considered a "performance" Winter tire, and are a Bang for the Buck alternative to the Alpins. So far I've been pleased with them, but have only been using them around town to drive to work.


I have the w300 on my RSX and they are a fair tire. Good grip in the dry and wet, way better than a all season in snow........but maybe not as good as the better winter tires out there in the white stuff. Its all a big trade off. They are low pro, and H rated so when its dry out i don't have to drive like a grandma on the 401. Great bang for the buck, and almost perfect for the types of winters we get here in the GTA.

BTW, studded tires are illegal in Ontario.


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## Cliffy (Apr 18, 2005)

For the first time I actually went with winter tires/rims. On my Neon I didn't think it was needed, and the Jeep had good enough tires.

My Magnum R/T had a problem that only a few winter tires were made for that size. Not only that but the offset limits the rim choice as well.


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## spudmac (Aug 23, 2002)

*Tire Update*

So... after procrastinating getting new tires for my '02 Toyota Sienna, I was a little worried about the mess of weather that's headed to the GTA tomorrow. I called the Halton Tire Center in Georgetown and had them install a set of the Nokian WR's that we were discussing back in December. The Nokians are an upgrade to what I had (Dunlop OEMs), are H rated, and stiffer which should be better for loading up with gear when travelling. The garage is family operated and I was impressed with their service. Took me right on time and were only about 30 minutes for the whole switch. Not bad! If you need a set of tires and are close to Georgetown, you may want to check them out - ask for Mike. 

Halton Tire Center
68A Main Street
Georgetown
905-877-5110

Spudmac


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

I am running a good set of nearly new all weathers on the front of the Echo. The rears are older. 

I am lucky in that I do not have to drive, but my drive way is wicked, about 75 feet on a steep grade. Since I can get a 30 KMH running start and the snow banks are big enough to keep things under control, I have no problems with up to 6" of snow or even on ice. Beyond that I simply do not drive if road conditions are bad. 

This system does require winter boots with good grippy soles!!


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

I have a fairly simple plan. At some point the city replaces the tires on their busses. :-D


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## MBD (Sep 1, 2003)

I live in the country and commute to work. A few years ago, I spun out on the way there and that evening bought a couple winter tires for my front wheels. The next year I put those on separate rims & bought a couple for the rear wheels too. I now change my tires every year in mid November and change them back to all seasons mid April. I have Blizzaks. Pretty good - excellent on ice.


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

Suprised all the Canadians who use all-seasons. Perhaps they are good for Southern Ontario winters (except this year) but snow tires are a must. Har 2 pairs when I had my Civic SIR; the Canadian tire WinterTrac's were amazing. I drive a truck now, 4X4 so I have semi-offroad tires. If I could afford winter tires and rims I would do that but I would be looking at over $1000 and the tires I have are designed for off road and winter so I don't right now.


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## maximusbibicus (Feb 25, 2002)

spudmac said:


> So... after procrastinating getting new tires for my '02 Toyota Sienna, I was a little worried about the mess of weather that's headed to the GTA tomorrow. I called the Halton Tire Center in Georgetown and had them install a set of the Nokian WR's that we were discussing back in December. The Nokians are an upgrade to what I had (Dunlop OEMs), are H rated, and stiffer which should be better for loading up with gear when travelling. The garage is family operated and I was impressed with their service. Took me right on time and were only about 30 minutes for the whole switch. Not bad! If you need a set of tires and are close to Georgetown, you may want to check them out - ask for Mike.
> 
> Halton Tire Center
> 68A Main Street
> ...


Did you buy rims to go with them, or are you swapping tires on the stock rims?


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## maximusbibicus (Feb 25, 2002)

RunTheWorldOnMac said:


> Suprised all the Canadians who use all-seasons. Perhaps they are good for Southern Ontario winters (except this year) but snow tires are a must. Har 2 pairs when I had my Civic SIR; the Canadian tire WinterTrac's were amazing. I drive a truck now, 4X4 so I have semi-offroad tires. If I could afford winter tires and rims I would do that but I would be looking at over $1000 and the *tires I have are designed for off road and winter *so I don't right now.


Actually they aren't designed for winter use. They are glorified all season tires. In my opinion they are worse, because SUV tires generally tend to have a harder compound which makes them a pain in the ass for the winter. If you are happy now, you'd be tickled pink if you had dedicated winter tires on an SUV. 

That said, I don't think winter tires are an absolute must in the GTA. I travel about 120KM a day, all on either the 401 or 407. If i didn't drive that must and i stayed in the city for the most part, i would have stuck with all seasons.


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

I agree; Mud and Snow tires are glorifed all-season tires; I was actually going to put that in my original post. I also agree that I will notice some difference with Winter tires; as I stated before I had them on my SIR and I could stop on a dime. Having said that, the tread on my mud and snow tires offer better traction than an all-season would on a car. Also, I believe my tires are still P series tires, not LT, so the sidewalls are a litte softer. They are 18" rims so the tires are well over $1000 to buy; seeing as I have 4X4 , that investment isn't warranted at this point. I've driven through some pretty deep snow without and problem.


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## maximusbibicus (Feb 25, 2002)

RunTheWorldOnMac said:


> I agree; Mud and Snow tires are glorifed all-season tires; I was actually going to put that in my original post. I also agree that I will notice some difference with Winter tires; as I stated before I had them on my SIR and I could stop on a dime. Having said that, the tread on my mud and snow tires offer better traction than an all-season would on a car. Also, I believe my tires are still P series tires, not LT, so the sidewalls are a litte softer. They are 18" rims so the tires are well over $1000 to buy; seeing as I have 4X4 , that investment isn't warranted at this point. I've driven through some pretty deep snow without and problem.


Good points.

Just to add, its the M+S rating that makes an all season tire. A tire without a M+S rating is a summer tire. 

I love the handling and the dynamics of my car....but darn i sometimes get the SUV bug. Gotta shake it!


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## spudmac (Aug 23, 2002)

maximusbibicus said:


> Did you buy rims to go with them, or are you swapping tires on the stock rims?


I put them on the original rim. They got a good workout after work today. Like night and day compared to what I had. I am very happy with the results.

Spudmac


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## maximusbibicus (Feb 25, 2002)

spudmac said:


> I put them on the original rim. They got a good workout after work today. Like night and day compared to what I had. I am very happy with the results.
> 
> Spudmac


 Good timing. 

Word of advice: Don't use them in the summer.


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## spudmac (Aug 23, 2002)

maximusbibicus said:


> Good timing.
> 
> Word of advice: Don't use them in the summer.



How come?


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

spudmac said:


> How come?


Winter tires will wear down and out extremely quickly and prematurely under hot and dry conditions (i.e; in the summer time) as they're designed strictly for cold, snowy, icy, and slushy/wet use.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Lars said:


> Winter tires will wear down and out extremely quickly and prematurely under hot and dry conditions (i.e; in the summer time) as they're designed strictly for cold, snowy, icy, and slushy/wet use.


one of the few times i agree with Lars


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## spudmac (Aug 23, 2002)

Lars said:


> Winter tires will wear down and out extremely quickly and prematurely under hot and dry conditions (i.e; in the summer time) as they're designed strictly for cold, snowy, icy, and slushy/wet use.



These are not winter tires. They are all-seasons (or as Nokian likes to call them all-weather) with a winter rating. I have always had all-seasons on my vehicles, but had been thinking about getting a set of winter tires and rotating. After checking out some info, I happened to read these articles in the Toronto Star. 

http://www.thestar.com/Wheels/article/123130

http://416-777-7777.com/Wheels/TireTalk/article/119085

The Nokian WRs allow me to use them year round with the benefit of having much more traction in winter. I am planning to use them year round, and don't see any problem with that as that is the purpose for which they are intended.


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## i<3myiBookg4 (Mar 17, 2006)

Pontiac Wave-all season tires, winter tires in winter
Ford Freestyle AWD-all season all year (probably getting winter tires next winter)
GMC Sierra 2500 HD 4x4-all season tires


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## maximusbibicus (Feb 25, 2002)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> one of the few times i agree with Lars


x2


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## maximusbibicus (Feb 25, 2002)

spudmac said:


> These are not winter tires. They are all-seasons (or as Nokian likes to call them all-weather) with a winter rating. I have always had all-seasons on my vehicles, but had been thinking about getting a set of winter tires and rotating. After checking out some info, I happened to read these articles in the Toronto Star.
> 
> http://www.thestar.com/Wheels/article/123130
> 
> ...


I learn something new everyday. 

I still am for dedicated tires on dedicated rims. These WR's could be a good compromise for some, however. 

FYI: On Nokian's site they are listed as winter tires http://www.nokiantyres.com/passengercars_en Click the "Winter" Curiously, they only list their tires as either Summer or Winter. I think the Finns and i agree.


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## spudmac (Aug 23, 2002)

maximusbibicus said:


> I learn something new everyday.
> 
> I still am for dedicated tires on dedicated rims. These WR's could be a good compromise for some, however.
> 
> FYI: On Nokian's site they are listed as winter tires http://www.nokiantyres.com/passengercars_en Click the "Winter" Curiously, they only list their tires as either Summer or Winter. I think the Finns and i agree.


Yeah, I too noticed that they were found under the winter tires. However when you go into the North American info page they call them "All-Weather" and claim:

"Only four-season family of tires that carries the Severe Service Emblem exceeding new government snow condition regulations"

http://www.nokiantires.com/en/tire_wr.aspx?season=winter

I will let you know how they perform in the summer. They are rated for 100 000 km, and so I'm figuring they should last as long as a decent all-season. We also don't put a lot of mileage on our vehicles (van is a 2002 and has about 55 000 km). As they are stiffer than a regular all-season, loaded up with gear for the cottage they should be a little safer as well.


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