# MBA hinge issue - FYI - $1000 error at Carbon



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

A few days ago, maybe 2 weeks, when I open my MBA I began to notice "soft" spots in the tension that holds the screen where you want it. The "soft spots" quickly became more pronounced and yesterday (very early!) morning - plastic cracking sound, piece of spring pops out, zero tension to hold screen. WTF!?

I finished the draft I was working on using a big _olde skuley_ dictionary (book ) propping up the MBA's screen.

OK, so now I got a problem! What to do? I'd been to Carbon in Ottawa a few times and they had done some Applecare service for us. There's also the Apple Store. 

I have AppleCare on the MBA which should be *equally negotiable* at Carbon and Apple, both... *Or so you would think.... Read on.*

So Carbon is marginally physically closer, but it is a +/-50 miles either way. I don't much like the Rideau Centre "experience" so we're off to Carbon.

I pack up the computer, put the cats in their room, secure the house and a 50 mile of Xlg_triple-cream_Timmy's & cigarettes winter drive later and the Carbon tech-girl is getting Carbon tech-guy. Carbon tech-guy says, more or less, if it was one hinge he might put it through Applecare because it could be a faulty part. However, as both hinges were implicated he suspected abnormal wear and tear. Yes, we would be happy to fix that for you. Your tab is going to be, give or take, :yikes: $1000..... :yikes: They would have to replace pretty much the whole upper half of the clamshell. :yikes: $1000..... :yikes: 

I specifically ask if there is any program or service bulletin on the hinge, because I'm damn sure the MBA has never received any "abnormal" wear and tear. You open it. You shut it. It has never been dropped or given a illicit drink. Nothing. What could I have done? uhh... ?? :yikes: $1000?? :yikes: He says "No". :yikes: $1000..... :yikes: Carbon tech-guy says "No". 

I man up to my Rideau Centre demons and walk into the Apple Store about 1315 hrs with no Genius appointment. Shortly, I have a 1445 appointment. 1.5 hours to stew on what I might have done "abnormally", or where the thou was going to come from, all in an environment somewhat hostile to my country sensitivities. I contacted the Genius at an actual 1435.... 

The genius steps up, politely compliments the case I have the computer in, and asks what my problem might be. I'm so much concerned about the $1000 :yikes: that I don't say a word. I just ease the MBA out of the case and turn it so he sees the back.

"Oh, the hinge thing," he immediately says, more or less, "We can fix that up for you. No charge." 

"No charge?" I ask. He replies, more or less, that this is a known issue. We'd fix this even if you didn't have Applecare which you do so you're doubly protected. !!!!! I asked if there was some sort of program or bulletin and was told not only that there was but also that the replacement was a modified part eliminating the problem.!! So I left the machine in their care and as I drove out of the parking building the sun came out, bright and clear - very Freudian.

I took a major $1000 sigh of relief, had a great ride home and cracked a cold brew with my cats.

I am one happy camper. The Apple store was a great experience. I was treated with respect and had great fun touchy-feelying all the latest Apple goodies and my computer will actually be better than new.

My question is this. "What up, Carbon?" That was a $1000 mistake. What if I had just said OK and paid it? Give me one reason to come back to Carbon in the future for service.

EDIT: link to this post sent to Carbon Service, Ottawa.


----------



## screature (May 14, 2007)

The Mayor is affiliated with Carbon is he not? Maybe ask him WTF?!?!? That was a horrible experience at CC rgray. I have only bought a couple of things from the store in Ottawa and I never have been much impressed with the people in there.


----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

screature said:


> The Mayor is affiliated with Carbon is he not? Maybe ask him WTF?!?!? *That was a horrible experience at CC rgray*. I have only bought a couple of things from the store in Ottawa and I never have been much impressed with the people in there.


It was indeed! I sweated out several kilos... ($1000 worth ) between CC and my Genius appointment I can tell you. Good thing I don't have particularly high blood pressure.

I think it is important to get a public answer here because it speaks to the nature of Applecare - aren't we supposed to be able to expect the same service level everywhere? 

What's the game here?

<conspiracy minded remark withdrawn>

Is CC service just really that much off the game?


----------



## zmttoxics (Oct 16, 2007)

Well, I have had some what of a mixed result with my apple care too. It is all in the eyes of the tech that looks at it really. So far I have had the easiest repairs done at ConceptComputing in Kanata. The technician isn't the most qualified (I did end up with more broken then I started with on the first visit), but they did make it right in the end.


----------



## andreww (Nov 20, 2002)

From my experience, especially if the computer is under warranty, I would always select taking my problems to Apple before any other authorized dealer. Its not that I don't trust anybody else, it's just that the Apple techs have a lot more experience to draw on. You can be assured that the guy that fixes your Macbook Air is likely using your machine for his maiden voyage in to one of these units. Also, the genius' are obviously more up to date on known issues and recalls.

The only reason I'd venture to a reseller for repair would be if the machine was out of warranty and I needed to do it cheaply.


----------



## johnnyspade (Aug 24, 2007)

Geez, how does that break down exactly? How much is the part and what's the labour, I wonder? Maybe they were thinking that nobody is going to pay $1000 for a repair and were trying to lead you into buying a new computer?


----------



## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

johnnyspade said:


> Geez, how does that break down exactly? How much is the part and what's the labour, I wonder? Maybe they were thinking that nobody is going to pay $1000 for a repair and were trying to lead you into buying a new computer?


Seems stupid if so. I suspect the stores profit on the warranty repair would equal or exceed the profit margin on a new unit. Beyond that why would anyone buy a computer from Apple or anyone else, if his current model from that company had failed during warranty and not been fixed.


----------



## Benito (Nov 17, 2007)

Wow, aren't you glad you went to the Apple store to ask them about it.


----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

johnnyspade said:


> Geez, how does that break down exactly? How much is the part and what's the labour, I wonder? Maybe they were thinking that nobody is going to pay $1000 for a repair and were trying to lead you into buying a new computer?


I was being conservative. AFAIK, the ±$1000 was for the PART only......


----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

Benito said:


> Wow, aren't you glad you went to the Apple store to ask them about it.


Absolutely.

The point is, why would I go back to Carbon? I have recommended CC to clients and to students of my St Lawrence College Mac workshops in the past, but no more. Not unless Carbon steps up to the question in a convincing manner.


----------



## johnnyspade (Aug 24, 2007)

I wonder as well if this is a Carbon quote or the opinion of a particular employee? If you had spoken to someone different there, would they have given you the same number?


----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

johnnyspade said:


> I wonder as well if this is a Carbon quote or the opinion of a particular employee? If you had spoken to someone different there, would they have given you the same number?


Seems to me that that would just exacerbate the equality of Applecare issue. If price were inconsistent in a single provider, that provider has a SERIOUS PROBLEM.


----------



## Benito (Nov 17, 2007)

I have to say that I've had a disappointing visit to CC in Toronto as well. I had a defect in the monitor of my MBP that was worsening over time. I was a swiggley bright line, as if there was a foreign body between the monitor's glass surface and the reflective backing that was gradually moving and scratching the reflective surface over time. The CC folks said it wasn't covered under Apple Care despite it being there from day one when it started as a dot and then progressed over time. I instead went to the Apple Store where they said it was a defect and replace the monitor for me without question.


----------



## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

The $1000 quote is insane. I can't possibly see how it would cost that much. (even if it was a "legit" repair....not to mention that apple covered it completely and it seems like it was a known issue)

I'm guessing the tech there isn't qualified. You might want to pass on your experience to the management at the Ottawa Carbon store.

Not that I'm hoping to get the dude fired or anything, but if this is his standard behavior then it really should be stopped in the interest of all the customers carbon could serve.


----------



## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

I will forward thread to appropriate people to have a look. Thank you for bringing this issue up. 

I don't think the issue was so much what the price of the parts and labour cost was vs if the repair was actually covered by AppleCare. Resellers do warranty on behalf of Apple and follow certain guidelines. The tech may have just been following the guidelines given by Apple. At any rate, I will forward the issue to the right people. 

I'll just have you know that you are ruining the conspiracy theory that you are all my minions associated with Carbon who speak negatively about the competition and never bring up anything negative about Carbon. 

I'm glad in the end, you got things worked out rgray.


----------



## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

ehMax said:


> I don't think the issue so much what the price of the parts and labour cost was vs if the repair was covered by warranty. Resellers just do warranty on behalf of Apple and are told to follow certain guidelines. The tech may have just been following the guidelines given by Apple.


Based on Benito's experience above i'd say there's a good chance this is the case.

But if it's true that resellers are held to a higher standard than the apple store techs, it does beg the question why would any customer choose to bring in their computer anywhere ELSE other than an apple store?


----------



## JCCanuck (Apr 17, 2005)

*Phone the manager of CC!*



rgray said:


> A few days ago, maybe 2 weeks, when I open my MBA I began to notice "soft" spots in the tension that holds the screen where you want it. The "soft spots" quickly became more pronounced and yesterday (very early!) morning - plastic cracking sound, piece of spring pops out, zero tension to hold screen. WTF!?
> 
> I finished the draft I was working on using a big _olde skuley_ dictionary (book ) propping up the MBA's screen.
> 
> ...


Learned many things from my wife who is sooo good at these types of problems. Phone the Manager and explain your situation. If he or she doesn't offer you a compensation for you problem (gift card or accessory?) then explain how you are using this very popular site to address the issue. You should get some kind of results and if not they will lose in the end.


----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

ehMax said:


> I will forward thread to appropriate people to have a look. Thank you for bringing this issue up.
> 
> I don't think the issue was so much what the price of the parts and labour cost was vs if the repair was actually covered by AppleCare. Resellers do warranty on behalf of Apple and follow certain guidelines. The tech may have just been following the guidelines given by Apple. At any rate, I will forward the issue to the right people.
> 
> ...


Sentiments appreciated. The point here is for Carbon to raise their game. Third party service providers are important and I want to see them do well. But, dammit, I paid good money for Applecare and I went to CC as an alleged Applecare provider.... 'nuff said.


----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

As mentioned above, I have sent a link to this thread to every CC email on the Ottawa contact site. As of this time there has been no response. AFAIAC, it is their ball.


----------



## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Just one thought I have... and this is not just pertaining to this thread. If anyone does have an issue with a company, I think its reasonable and considerate to contact a manager and give a company a chance to rectify a potential mistake, *BEFORE* publicly posting.  Believe it or not, service departments are run by techs who are various employed humans who do make mistakes. 

Carbon has excellent service departments with constantly very high marks for customer satisfaction.


----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

ehMax said:


> Just one thought I have... and this is not just pertaining to this thread. If anyone does have an issue with a company, I think its reasonable and considerate to contact a manager and give a company a chance to rectify a potential mistake, *BEFORE* publicly posting.  Believe it or not, service departments are run by techs who are various employed humans who do make mistakes.
> 
> Carbon has excellent service departments with constantly very high marks for customer satisfaction.


I DID make myself clear to the service people - both of them - that I disputed abuse theory, and I specifically asked if there were a program on the issue, as it turned out there was! No one checked - just said 'No'. 

Also, as noted above in this thread, I have emailed this link to every address on the CC Ottawa contact page, without - as of now - response.

Get this clearly: at the outset I preferred to do business with Carbon - small, relatively local, etc... all that good stuff. 

And granted, they have done good work for us in the past. 

But consider this: I cannot risk clients or students or friends of MINE having negative experiences with a place that I recommend and I recommend based on my experience - which at the moment, vis a vis CC, is negative. Surely you, as a businessman, can understand that.


----------



## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

rgray said:


> Also, as noted above in this thread, *I have emailed this link to every address on the CC Ottawa contact page*


As I said, its also considerate to allow some time for a company to respond BEFORE posting online.  Gladly, it appears the pressing part of your tech issue is resolved, so its not like time is of the essence for the matter to be looked at. (The issue has been forwarded to the correct people and it will be looked at)

You can be confident in recommending client's, students and friends to Carbon's service. They do good work. 

I don't know all the details on this issue, but I can assure you, it will be reviewed.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)




----------



## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

CubaMark said:


>


Actually... shopping bags are now 10¢.


----------



## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

Apple has long screwed over it's resellers by offering superior service and more leeway at the Genius bars than it gives it's AASP "partners". My brother had a MBP with the 8600M video card issue - and after contacting a reseller where he got it from was told it would be lots of $$ to replace. He then contacted Applecare who offered to do it for free. The Reseller is stuck when their Apple Guidelines say they have to charge for it - even if Apple themselves will sometimes not charge.

This happens a LOT and resellers can't risk swallowing the cost for the labour and the part if they offer to do it for free and Apple doesn't reimburse them for the repair/part after the fact. 

I'm not saying Carbon was RIGHT, but Apple does hurt their resellers by operating in this manner. 

I've seen Genius Bars replace out of warranty hard drives, and other things, which they can do 'cause of their size, operating margins. AASPs simply can't afford to do this.


----------



## jamesB (Jan 28, 2007)

i-rui said:


> But if it's true that resellers are held to a higher standard than the apple store techs, it does beg the question why would any customer choose to bring in their computer anywhere ELSE other than an apple store?


Maybe because they do not have an Apple Store anywhere near by.

There are a whole lot of people in Canada who do not have reasonable access to an AppleStore, many do not even have a reseller close by.


----------



## darkscot (Nov 13, 2003)

I'd advise to call 1 800 My Apple first, get it documented, Apple can document any applicable programs for known issues, get the case # and take it to Apple Store or authorized reseller


----------



## andreww (Nov 20, 2002)

ehmax may be correct in the fact that CC may not have had any knowledge of a repair program for this particular problem. I know that auto dealerships will recieve service bulletins alerting them to certain issues, and it is up to the dealer to decide if the repair is covered. I have not seen any official service bulletin from Apple regarding this particular problem so I can only guess that their techs have been advised via internal bulletin. Apple likes to avoid full recalls or waranty extensions, so it seems plausible that they just don't want to alert resellers, for obvious reasons. However, I was surprised to hear that CC's techs were more than willing to make a judgement call, without even consulting with Apple on what appears to be a catostrophic design failure.


----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Also, In most cases, in Ottawa Carbon Computing is able to look at a machine almost right away. At the Apple store, you have to book an appointment to even speak to someone and then wait 2 weeks before the repair gets started (so I've heard).


Carbon Ottawa did indeed look at my machine right away. It is the answer that is under dispute here.

For the record, even though I walked into the Apple store cold, I was immediately given an appointment within 1.5 hours. They estimate 3 day return of the computer which they took in right away.


----------



## ScanMan (Sep 11, 2007)

Your cats have a room?


----------



## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

It would be an interesting control if an AASP could call Apple with a description of the same problem - 2 hinges broken on Air - and report back what Apple's instructions to the AASP were.


----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

ScanMan said:


> Your cats have a room?


Yeah, well.... Five kittens were born here and when they were tiny we had a huge old school TV carton as a nursery in my daughter's room except she had moved on. So as the kittens grew they took over the whole room as a nursery. When they got older we just kept it on. They became trained to go there when told. They are fed there and can be sequestered at need. They are indoor cats and having the room dramatically reduces door issues when visitors arrive. It is a secure place for them and they hang out there a lot even when they have the run of the whole house. Works kinda like 'crating' a dog, except the room is much larger that a crate and has all the amenities....

But I digress.....


----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

CanadaRAM said:


> It would be an interesting control if an AASP could call Apple with a description of the same problem - 2 hinges broken on Air - and report back what Apple's instructions to the AASP were.


Been there, did that. Was told to take it to an Applecare provider without further comment. A case number was not issued (several tries while I held) due to "computer problems".


----------



## ScanMan (Sep 11, 2007)

rgray said:


> Yeah, well....


That's honestly quite wonderful. 

Y'know, me asking the question was like my Wlfe asking me what I'd had for lunch that day, when I'm in the middle of obsessing and spitting nails about the latest "incredible f'ing problem" in my life. 

It's become household code for "move on, or the stress will kill you".

But seeing your photo, it appears you've plenty of live-in stress busters to counteract incidents such as this.

And yeah...I was also a bit curious about what you'd hang on the walls and what the furniture would be like in a cat room.


----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

ScanMan said:


> .... plenty of live-in stress busters ...........


Indeed. The three surviving girls are a great source of comfort in their way.

To be honest, I am not stressing. That was all over when I confirmed repair would be on Apple's dime. I simply described what happened, how I felt about it and what it means to me going forward. What others do with the info is entirely their choice.

Trevor from CC phoned and we chatted a little. He confirms the gist of what he said in an email.


> Hi Robert,
> 
> I realize we just spoke on the phone, but I also wanted to restate our desire to rectify the situation for you if given the chance. I firmly believe this mixup was the result of a miscommunication.
> 
> ...


If CC does indeed improve info at the repair counter, that would be good. But that is their issue, not mine.

Product review, one way or another, is a lot of what goes on on a board like ehMac. I reviewed my experience and I stand by that review.

If and when I need further service, I may consider CC. However, after this, if I took in to them any service that I considered to be an Applecare item I would be unable to accept any price tag >$0.00 without seeking a second opinion. 

But that is just me. 

_Caveat emptor_, baby. YMMV

*Case closed.*


----------



## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Interesting we should have two parallel threads, same two outlets but exactly opposite results.

http://www.ehmac.ca/anything-mac/81207-service-apple-store-rideau-3.html


----------



## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

yeah until you figure out a way to remove human beings from the equation you will see this from time to time..

as i was reading i was thinking "man i have read this same story, but the customer upset at the apple store" numerous times.

sh1t happens...one human can make an error just as easily as the next. the genius who helped you could easily have botched 2 other repairs that day, one before you walked in, one after...


----------



## Benito (Nov 17, 2007)

If I posted my experience in error then I apologize.


----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Also, In most cases, in Ottawa Carbon Computing is able to look at a machine almost right away. At the Apple store, you have to book an appointment to even speak to someone and then wait 2 weeks before the repair gets started (so I've heard).





rgray said:


> For the record, even though I walked into the Apple store cold, I was immediately given an appointment within 1.5 hours. They estimate 3 day return of the computer which they took in right away.


In at about 1500hrs on the 12th... I was called yesterday afternoon, the 14th, that my machine was ready..... two days on the round... not too bad.


----------



## milhaus (Jun 1, 2004)

Carbon Computing and all of the other AASP need to either step up their game or close up shop. Apple is in the retail market now, and they provide a level of service that is significantly higher than other retail providers, in _some_ areas. CC has been fairly smart, and is capitalizing on a segment of the Apple market that Apple Retail doesn't really focus on - high end audio, video, etc. users, who need salespeople with a high level of technical expertise. Focus on that. 

As a consumer, I would go to the shop with the best service (for my needs) and, where service is not required, prices. Frequently, that means eschewing both Apple and Apple third party retailers for little PC shops (on devices or memory that I don't need help purchasing or using). Whether or not Apple is being fair to 3rd party retailers or not does not factor into my decision or consideration, especially since none of them have ever done a damn thing to deserve any loyalty. Apple Retail and the genius bar, on the other hand, have replaced a MacBook Pro one and a half year into the warranty, an iPhone for battery issues 5 days before warranty was up, replaced batteries for my MBP, turned around all of my repairs in approximately 4 - 24 hours (ProCare), and replaced numerous in-ear headphones at no cost. 

And seriously, I much prefer making an appointment first: it guarantees me that I can be seen than day. Going into most AASPs, it's a total crapshoot, though I'll concede that I've never done this at Carbon, who may be better.


----------



## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

CanadaRAM said:


> It would be an interesting control if an AASP could call Apple with a description of the same problem - 2 hinges broken on Air - and report back what Apple's instructions to the AASP were.





rgray said:


> Been there, did that. Was told to take it to an Applecare provider without further comment. A case number was not issued (several tries while I held) due to "computer problems".


i think you're misunderstanding what he said.

He's suggesting that someone on this board who's an AASP (there's a couple i'm sure) and have THEM call apple with a case like yours as if they were doing the repair. Then see what APPLE says to them.

That would be a way to see if resellers have to play by the same rules that the apple store does.


----------



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

Time to input my two cents into this thread:

Apple Authorized Service Providers provide the same level of coverage that Apple Retail Stores do when it comes to major REP's (Repair Extension Programs). This includes the MacBook Air hinge known issue, the MacBook Pro 8600 NVIDIA video card issue, Mac Pro tower video card issue (select video card(s) and models), and a few others that have been in effect over the years. With simple research with the information and tools provided to any authorized Service Provider by Apple through the Global Service Exchange portal, Carbon Computing could have verified the OP's issue and connected it with a special coverage program currently in effect through Apple. Unfortunately, 5 minutes of research wasn't done and the OP ended up at the Apple Store with misleading information and a high priced repair quote.

Secondly, and other thing I'd like to address, is the apparent disbelief in this thread about how pricey Apple genuine replacement parts are out of warranty. Had the OP's hinges not been covered by an REP, a replacement display at $1K or so is entirely accurate, and unlike what one poster theorized earlier in this thread, such high priced quotes are not delivered to sway a customer into purchasing a new machine -- the parts really are that expensive. Displays, logic board, and other major components (Apple Genuine Parts) are often prohibitively expensive. If you don't believe the quote you're given, take the issue to another, or another two, or another four service providers -- they will all likely give you different quotes, but they'll all share a common element: A high, expensive repair quote.

The misconception that an Apple part can't possibly cost so much is derived from the PC mentality, where a high end processor is on sale at Canada Computers for $199.00. This is not how Apple operates, or at which they sell their replacements parts at and for. I've been an Apple Certified Technician over 5 years and I know what kind of pricing structure is in effect with Apple replacement parts out of warranty.

That's all...


----------

