# iPad Landed Costs



## Mckitrick (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi guys,

For those of you looking to get an iPad NOW, or looking at getting one from Kijiji, etc. I thought I'd break down what my hard costs were. This doesn't include the cost of gas or time, etc. Just the real hard costs

iPad 16G

Purchased in Victor, NY where the State tax was 7.5%
*Unit cost USD*: $536.43 USD (_$499+7.5%_)
*Customs Value*: $540.45 CDN (_536.43 * 1.00750000_)
*GST & PST*: $70.26 CDN
*USD to CDN Conversion Rate *(Sony Card): 1.038225288
*Unit cost CDN*: $556.93
*Grand Total: $627.19 CDN *(_$556.93+$70.26_)

iPad 32G

Purchased at Walden Galleria, NY where the State tax was 8.75%
*Unit cost USD*: $651.41 USD (_$599+8.75%_)
*Customs Value*: $656.30 CDN (_651.41 * 1.00750000_)
*GST & PST*: $85.32 CDN
*USD to CDN Conversion Rate *(Amex Card): 1.036169540
*Unit cost CDN*: $674.97
*Grand Total: $760.29 CDN *(_$674.97+$85.32_)

So, in my case the "upgrade" cost of the 16G to 32G was $133.10 when I had estimated it would only be about $120 more (due to higher state tax and crappy conversion rate [thanks Amex])

NOW that we have all the cards on the table, if any of you would like one, I will of course honour my original post stating I'd like to recoup my costs and maybe $50 (or whatever you feel is reasonable) for my gas and time.


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## enon (Feb 12, 2010)

Just a question, how come the iPad was charged NY sales tax and also GST+PST? Isn't that double taxation?


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

Of course it is, because the buyer took delivery in NY (State tax) and then imported it to Canada (ON and Federal tax) "Double Taxation" is a no-no only when it is the same jurisdiction charging the doubled tax.

NY state may or may not have a provision for tourists to reclaim state taxes through a bunch of paperwork. Often, this is more effort than it is worth.


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

New York state sued Amazon, Dell, Apple and other major online retailers to collect NY state tax since they were doing business in that state. Used to be, one could skirt the local tax by ordering online.


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## Mckitrick (Dec 25, 2005)

Enon- not only was GST&PST charged in ADDITION to NY State tax, it was charged ON TOP OF the NY State tax.

It doesn't seem right to me but everyone I spoke to says this is normal and the Canadian paperwork clearly shows the tax was charged on top of the New York tax. Horrible. Any excuse to get an extra buck out of us, eh?


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## G-Mo (Sep 26, 2007)

Mckitrick said:


> Enon- not only was GST&PST charged in ADDITION to NY State tax, it was charged ON TOP OF the NY State tax.
> 
> It doesn't seem right to me but everyone I spoke to says this is normal and the Canadian paperwork clearly shows the tax was charged on top of the New York tax. Horrible. Any excuse to get an extra buck out of us, eh?


They always try and tax you on the most obvious total (which usually includes US tax), however, the law is you only have to pay PST/GST on the PRE-TAX total. If they try and tax you on the grant total, you simple highlight the pre-tax total and bring that to their attention and they will adjust. You paid $5+ extra per device you didn't need to, and that's your mistake.


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## Mckitrick (Dec 25, 2005)

G-Mo said:


> They always try and tax you on the most obvious total (which usually includes US tax), however, the law is you only have to pay PST/GST on the PRE-TAX total. If they try and tax you on the grant total, you simple highlight the pre-tax total and bring that to their attention and they will adjust. You paid $5+ extra per device you didn't need to, and that's your mistake.


Harsh dude.... We're not all up on our tax laws.


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## basilmunroe (Dec 21, 2006)

So, I'm probably heading down to Buffalo tonight - I've never had to pay duty/taxes on anything I brought back to Canada before. Can somebody walk me through what I should expect?

I'm going by car. Do I pay the taxes right at the customs booth, or do I have to go into an office? What forms of payment are accepted? Am I going to be probed? Will my eyeballs be removed and replaced? What's the deal here people?


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## G-Mo (Sep 26, 2007)

Mckitrick said:


> Just the real hard costs
> 
> iPad 16G
> 
> ...


That's a heck of a premium to pay for a couple of weeks early adoption.

By rights this should only cost ~CDN$590 with no travel time and no gas costs.


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## Mckitrick (Dec 25, 2005)

G-Mo said:


> That's a heck of a premium to pay for a couple of weeks early adoption.
> 
> By rights this should only cost ~CDN$590 with no travel time and no gas costs.


LOL! People like you are amazing. I put everything on the table showing what my costs were and yet you still find a way to Sh!t on my thread. :clap:


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## G-Mo (Sep 26, 2007)

Mckitrick said:


> Harsh dude.... We're not all up on our tax laws.


I wasn't trying to be harsh, sorry. Just an FYI for next time and for anyone else planning on doing the same thing. It was big 411 when people were going for the original iPhone.



Mckitrick said:


> LOL! People like you are amazing. I put everything on the table showing what my costs were and yet you still find a way to Sh!t on my thread. :clap:


I wasn't trying to sh!t on your thread, I am simple amazed by what people are willing to pay (in time and dollars) to own this device three weeks early. It's not like the iPhone, where there was no Canadian release date and there was no other choice... in three weeks you'll be able to walk in to one of many stores across Canada locally and pick one up for less. The rush for the border for the iPad boggles my mind!??!


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## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

Hey, if you post a thread discussing the cost to buy an iPad and bring it to Canada, it is most certainly appropriate for someone to comment on the price premium to have the device a few weeks early. I don't understand why you feel he is sh!tting on the thread.


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## G-Mo (Sep 26, 2007)

hayesk said:


> Hey, if you post a thread discussing the cost to buy an iPad and bring it to Canada, it is most certainly appropriate for someone to comment on the price premium to have the device a few weeks early. I don't understand why you feel he is sh!tting on the thread.


Thank you!


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## basilmunroe (Dec 21, 2006)

Well, there isn't a hard release date in Canada. And the US date was already pushed back. There has been no confirmation of date or price for Canadian iPads. I mentioned in another thread that if the issue is establishing a deal with a Canadian telecom company, then we may see a date pushed well into May, if not farther out. I'm not saying that's what's going to happen. But in no way is it a certainty that Canadians will have home-soil access to iPads in 3 weeks.


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## Mckitrick (Dec 25, 2005)

basilmunroe said:


> So, I'm probably heading down to Buffalo tonight - I've never had to pay duty/taxes on anything I brought back to Canada before. Can somebody walk me through what I should expect?
> 
> I'm going by car. Do I pay the taxes right at the customs booth, or do I have to go into an office? What forms of payment are accepted? Am I going to be probed? Will my eyeballs be removed and replaced? What's the deal here people?


Nothing to it Basilmunroe, when you come back, tell the customs agent you have things to declare, you park your car by an office, go in, show them your receipts, they punch some numbers into a computer and then you go to the cashier and pay your PST&GST. I payed with my Amex but they seem to accept just about any form of payment. Sometimes they will go out with you to the car to inspect that you don't have anything more than what you have declared but that's usually a quick process.

As mentioned earlier though, ask that they don't charge you GST&PST on top of the New York state tax! Please let us know your results and if this flies with the customs people.
*
OH! AND DON'T FORGET YOUR PASSPORT!!*


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

G-Mo said:


> They always try and tax you on the most obvious total (which usually includes US tax), however, the law is you only have to pay PST/GST on the PRE-TAX total. If they try and tax you on the grant total, you simple highlight the pre-tax total and bring that to their attention and they will adjust. You paid $5+ extra per device you didn't need to, and that's your mistake.


Wrong. CBSA collects taxes based on the value of what it cost you to acquire it - what it cost to have it in your hands. So if was a parcel, they can include the shipping cost in the final value. Local taxes paid are definitely part of the value/cost. There is no law as you describe.

I am an importer and cross the border frequently, clearing my own shipments on the commercial side. The regular non-commercial side works much differently with regards to value for duty and value for taxation. The commercial goods I clear do not including shipping costs as part of the commodity value. 

Mckitrick's stated landed values are correct. The only way to shave some savings is to pay in US dollars, thereby avoiding the currency spread of the credit card conversion rates.


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## basilmunroe (Dec 21, 2006)

Thanks McKitrick! I'll let everyone know how it goes.


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## G-Mo (Sep 26, 2007)

gmark2000 said:


> Wrong. CBSA collects taxes based on the value of what it cost you to acquire it - what it cost to have it in your hands. So if was a parcel, they can include the shipping cost in the final value. Local taxes paid are definitely part of the value/cost. There is no law as you describe.


I went 5 times to the US between July and September 2007 bringing back 11 iPhones total. My cousin works for CBSA (formerly Canada Customs and Revenue), and advised me before my first trip to make sure I only pay on the pre-tax total. Three of the 5 times when they calculated the taxes they based it on the receipt total, upon pointing out the pre-tax total, as my cousin had told me, they recalculated. Once, they did it based on the pre-tax total to begin with, and once, they just let me go with them and didn't charge me anything...

It has to do with the "Value For Duty" and US policies on exported items. All I know is she, and several websites for Canadians travelling to the US to purchase iPhones, gave this advice... I followed it, and was charged less tax.


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## Mckitrick (Dec 25, 2005)

What did you do with those 11 iPhones?


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## G-Mo (Sep 26, 2007)

Mckitrick said:


> What did you do with those 11 iPhones?


Friends and family... 2 are still in use by their original owners as far as I know.


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## Mckitrick (Dec 25, 2005)

That's good of you. Most of my friends aren't interested in the iPad and there's no family birthdays coming up. I'm the lone Mac geek in my nerd clan. Isn't there a Corky and the Juice Pigs song along those lines? LOL


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## G-Mo (Sep 26, 2007)

Mckitrick said:


> That's good of you.


Any excuse to cross the border and get gas station jerky!


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## Mckitrick (Dec 25, 2005)

Found it!
YouTube - Mad TV Corky - The Juice Pigs - I'm The Only Gay Eskimo


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

G-Mo said:


> My cousin works for CBSA (formerly Canada Customs and Revenue), and advised me before my first trip to make sure I only pay on the pre-tax total...
> 
> It has to do with the "Value For Duty" and US policies on exported items.



From the CBSA website:
bsf5056 I Declare



CBSA said:


> *Value for duty and foreign sales tax*
> 
> Value for duty is sometimes called customs value. It is the amount the CBSA uses to calculate duty on your goods, and it is generally based on the price you paid for the goods.
> 
> In most cases, the CBSA considers any foreign sales tax added to or included in the price to be part of the value.


To be specific, Customs Valuation: Price Paid or Payable (Customs Act, Section 48), Memorandum D13-4-3, Article 16 states:


"The amount of any duties and taxes, that are paid or payable to the government of the country of export in respect of the imported goods by reason of the goods having been exported, is to be treated as part of the price paid or payable for those goods in determining the value for duty under section 48."

D13-4-3 - Customs Valuation: Price Paid or Payable (Customs Act, Section 48)


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## G-Mo (Sep 26, 2007)

gmark2000 said:


> From the CBSA website


You can quote ambiguous web pages featuring "sometimes", "generally" and "_n most cases" all you want, but, it proves little to nothing against personal experience...

And, BTW, next time you quote, quote THE WHOLE relevant text:

"In most cases, the CBSA considers any foreign sales tax added to or included in the price to be part of the value. *However, some foreign governments will refund sales tax to you if you export the items you bought. In such cases, you do not have to include the amount of the foreign sales tax that was or will be refunded to you.*"

Oops!??_


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

G-Mo said:


> You can quote ambiguous web pages featuring "sometimes", "generally" and "_n most cases" all you want, but, it proves little to nothing against personal experience...
> 
> And, BTW, next time you quote, quote THE WHOLE relevant text:
> 
> ...


_

No. No need to because *NY State Sales tax is not refundable* to visitors, I excluded that irrelevant portion. Perhaps with your bulk iPhone importation three years ago, they thought it was a commercial importation. That's my theory. However, in this case, *NY State Tax absolutely factors into the value for duty*. I know because I've discussed this with CBSA before and their website corroborates this._


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## MACinist (Nov 17, 2003)

g-mo said:


> it's not like the iphone, where there was no canadian release date and there was no other choice... In three weeks you'll be able to walk in to one of many stores across canada locally and pick one up for less. The rush for the border for the ipad boggles my mind!??!


+1


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## G-Mo (Sep 26, 2007)

gmark2000 said:


> No. No need to because *NY State Sales tax is not refundable* to visitors, I excluded that irrelevant portion. Perhaps with your bulk iPhone importation three years ago, they thought it was a commercial importation. That's my theory. However, in this case, *NY State Tax absolutely factors into the value for duty*. I know because I've discussed this with CBSA before and their website corroborates this.


NYS tax IS refundable! I was in 2007 (I refunded all of my iPhones, picked up the forms at Walden), and it is today, although, it has been "quietly" discontinued... but, some Malls and Duty Free outlets will still give you the paperwork. Walden Galleria has stopped suppling them, but, The Marketplace in Rochester still hands them out. My parents picked up a crib for us (at a substantial discount!) there Monday and picked up the paperwork for the tax refund, and declared it at the border AND only paid tax on the pre-tax total. You need to do some more research... Sorry!


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

Thanks for wasting mine and everyone else's time. 

A fairly comprehensive web search yields nothing to support your claims. The New York State Department of Taxation and Finance has no mechanism for refunding sales taxes to visitors to New York. Moreover, numerous travel guides explicitly state that visitors to New York are unable to claim a tax refund for goods purchased.

Shopping malls refunding amounts equivalent to taxes to out-of-state shoppers as a marketing promotion do not qualify.


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## viffer (Aug 29, 2007)

I too wanted a unit early and was willing to pay the $50 premium - it saved me a trip to Buffalo - different strokes for different folks. Jeeze.




G-Mo said:


> I wasn't trying to be harsh, sorry. Just an FYI for next time and for anyone else planning on doing the same thing. It was big 411 when people were going for the original iPhone.
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't trying to sh!t on your thread, I am simple amazed by what people are willing to pay (in time and dollars) to own this device three weeks early. It's not like the iPhone, where there was no Canadian release date and there was no other choice... in three weeks you'll be able to walk in to one of many stores across Canada locally and pick one up for less. The rush for the border for the iPad boggles my mind!??!


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## gcarswell (Oct 29, 2005)

Nice friendly thread. Guy posts genuinely helpful info for those who may be interested in it, and the a-holes swoop in in minutes. This is what's wrong with the internet

/flame on


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## Mckitrick (Dec 25, 2005)

Thanks gcarswell. You can't keep everyone happy. 


G-Mo said:


> That's a heck of a premium to pay for a couple of weeks early adoption.
> 
> By rights this should only cost ~CDN$590 with no travel time and no gas costs.


Just remembered to add this to the thread. When you do a quick comparison between Apple's Canadian and US websites, the price differences on most items are between 8-10%. As I see it, the likelyhood of Apple Canada launching the iPad for the same price as Apple USA is slim since they would have to adjust all of their other products prices to avoid complainey complainers from complaining.

I'll do the math...
A 16G with an 8% Canadian price premium is *$608.98* after PST & GST
A 16G with a 10% Canadian price premium is *$620.26* after PST & GST
Recall that my landed cost was *$627.19*

A 32G with an 8% Canadian price premium is *$731.01* after PST & GST
A 32G with a 10% Canadian price premium is *$744.56* after PST & GST
Recall that my landed cost was *$760.29*

Now if you think paying an extra $50-70 bucks to get something as cool (and expensive) as an iPad before everyone around you is too much, that's your budgetary judgement to make. For those of us who are in the position to afford a luxury item such as an iPad in the first place, the premium is not as steep as you make it out to be. Hell I've given several times that to Kiva and I didn't get to play with a cool gizmo as a result.

How about this:
For anyone who buys either of these units from me, I will donate half of my "profit" to Kiva.


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## enon (Feb 12, 2010)

Mckitrick said:


> Thanks gcarswell. You can't keep everyone happy.
> 
> 
> Just remembered to add this to the thread. When you do a quick comparison between Apple's Canadian and US websites, the price differences on most items are between 8-10%. As I see it, the likelyhood of Apple Canada launching the iPad for the same price as Apple USA is slim since they would have to adjust all of their other products prices to avoid complainey complainers from complaining.
> ...


Just keep the money for yourself. Most people would stop donating money to charity if they saw where the money really went and how much of it is wasted.

If you were in the GTA the iPads would have been sold already, it is not the matter of price but the location.


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## minnes (Aug 15, 2001)

I don't have a problem with reselling anything for profit, . That is fine, but the OP should just post this in the classifieds, it doesn't cost anything and would seem more above board.
The purpose of this thread is for the OP to make a profit, not do anyone a favor, and that belongs in the classified.
Good luck with it.


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## Wraithverge (Mar 21, 2010)

I hate to feed the trolls, but I want the OP to know that I appreciate the post. I, like many others on the boards, have been debating a cross-border trip and I had no idea what it would end up costing me. 

Thanks.


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## l84toff (Jul 27, 2008)

I'm thinking of picking one up in New Hampshire when I go through there in a couple weeks, NH = no sales tax, and I'm planning on being in the US for 7 days = no duties paid.

I'm just not quite convinced I want/need one.


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

l84toff said:


> I'm thinking of picking one up in New Hampshire when I go through there in a couple weeks, NH = no sales tax, and I'm planning on being in the US for 7 days = no duties paid.
> 
> I'm just not quite convinced I want/need one.


There is no duty to be paid on the iPad. Just GST and PST. Which you'd still be paying when you declared your purchase at the border.


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## l84toff (Jul 27, 2008)

fyrefly said:


> There is no duty to be paid on the iPad. Just GST and PST. Which you'd still be paying when you declared your purchase at the border.


They allow you to bring in $750 after being away for 7 days = nothing to pay. At least as far as I'm aware. And as far as I've been doing over the last 6 years or so when going down south, I've always declared the amount I've purchased and have never been asked to pay duty or taxes. Mind you I've always been under the allowable amount.


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## enon (Feb 12, 2010)

OMG, everyone get the iPads before they get sold out!


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## ericlewis91 (Jul 12, 2007)

ive heard stories and experienced many times 

you tell the people at the booth. 

and they just say have a great day..

many times no extra fees or taxes


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## palm0014 (Mar 7, 2005)

Interestingly enough, the new Macbook Pros stood at a 4% difference between the US and the Cdn price. This is the lowest it's ever been.

So I'm going to take a wild guess that the iPad will hover around 5% increase in Cdn price which would put it at $524 (which has been mentioned in this thread before).


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