# The CBC...



## absinthe (Jun 12, 2004)

So this exchange happened in another thread:


_Given the fact that the vast majority of Canadians neither watch nor listen to the CBC with any sort of regularity...

Speak for yourself... CBC Rules.

It's what "holds this country together" after all...or so we are constantly being told. By the CBC.
Too bad most of us never watch it._ 

I know I have sorely missed the CBC during the strike. Particularly radio.

What's the demographic here?

How often do you watch/listen to the CBC?

By the way, first time doing a poll, I hope I've done it right...


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## darkscot (Nov 13, 2003)

good idea for a poll, absinthe! I listen to it daily and often rather than my iPod.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I want CBC back on NOW!!!!!!! I have written to our MP from St.John's East to say this, and I should send a copy to the president of the CBC.


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## comprehab (May 28, 2005)

I listen and watch daily. Normally radio in the morning (news) and then tv at night. Also love to listen to quirks and quarks. I am pretty dissappointed about the labor issue and would like to see everything resolved asap.


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## Melonie (Feb 10, 2005)

I don't think it is quite that easy Dr. G. The negotiations had been going on for 18 months and there is only one really big sticking point, that being contracting out.

The CBC exec. want everything back on the tracks too, probably more so than you, albeit for a different reason.

I say lets pressure CBC AND the union to get a frikkin' top-notch arbiter in there to get the two sides talking turkey.

Mel



Dr.G. said:


> I want CBC back on NOW!!!!!!! I have written to our MP from St.John's East to say this, and I should send a copy to the president of the CBC.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Melonie, arbitration might be the only way to go unless this shall turn into a LONG lock out.


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## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

I didn't answer, because I don't listen or watch. I do, however, view the website for news everyday. They seem to be the only Canadian news with an RSS feed.

My dad is a staunch conservative, while I am a "blue Liberal." But it was actually my dad who recommended the CBC website. I started using it, and with Mac OS X Tiger I began using its RSS feeds.


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## absinthe (Jun 12, 2004)

Someone I know works for CBC here in Toronto. He felt that the deadline is hockey season. There is no chance that they could endanger their cash cow.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

http://www.cbc.ca/contact/index.jsp

I am sending a complaint a day.


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## ErnstNL (Apr 12, 2003)

What?
You forgot "hourly".
Although I sympathize with the strikers, I really miss CBC radio.

That said, I love the new programming on CBC mornings. The music choices are really good. Mostly Canadian artists, some B.B. King and jazz this morning too.
Best music station in St. John's at the moment.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"Best music station in St. John's at the moment." True, but we want those that talk as well. Bring back Ann Budgell!!!!!!!


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## absinthe (Jun 12, 2004)

I just figured that if you are using daily, then you're probably fully addicted, in one aspect or another.

I listen almost all the time. 
I must admit though that there are some radio programs that I cannot keep tuned into.


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## absinthe (Jun 12, 2004)

By the way I often listen online. are there any local shows I should try to catch?


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

I listen daily... prepping to go to work, driving to and from work, and driving around during the day if that's part of the work day. Love it. Also check out many CBC radio programs during the weekend. I catch relatively little TV, though.

It was nice to have some music in the mornings for a change, but I've grown tired of it. I can get my radio music diet elsewhere, thanks very much. Looking forward to them getting back to the regular routine... whenever _that_ happens.


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## ErnstNL (Apr 12, 2003)

CBC Radio 3 and Quirks and Quarks are available as podcasts on iTunes Canada.

Music variety is quite limited (boring) in St. John's. Not like TO or Montreal. 
Even Woodstock NB has more variety.
We were there for a few days last summer and I could listen to 3 NPR stations. The only way to listen here in St. John's is by internet feed.

CBC Radio 1 is good stuff here in St. John's. Dr. G and I are both big fans.
Come Back PleasePleasePlease!


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## RicktheChemist (Jul 18, 2001)

.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I really miss the CBC Radio right now altho they are redoing some of the better shows from the past. Ideas has had the 3 part series on bullying by girls that is incredibly good ....and very moving as you hear from some girls who bullied a friend into suicide....and where charged for it. 

Much missed right now  - there is only so much 680 News and then Classical 94.6 I can take.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Memorial University's radio station is contemplating going on air with some pseudo-CBC programs, such as "Notions", which are not quite as deep as CBC nightly show "Ideas". Actually, "Cats and Barks" will be a great hit here, since there are as many cat and dog owners as people who know what a quark is in physics.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

CBC is now playing "The Best of CBC Radio". Luckily, they announced this as I thought I had heard the ghost of Clyde Gilmour say "Hello" once again.


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## ErnstNL (Apr 12, 2003)

"Ideas" podcasts on iTunes would be interesting.
I heard that series on bullying too. Really moving.


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## gwillikers (Jun 19, 2003)

I think the CBC is pretty much a national treasure. It's just too bad that it isn't run accordingly, instead of like some cable tv or telco conglomerate. The only CBC personnel that have any vision, or talent, are the one's who are locked out.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Amen, gw, Amen. Bring back Peter Mansbridge!!!!!!!


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## district (Sep 14, 2003)

I really miss CBC radio, especially 'the Current', but I understand what the union is fighting against and I'm spiriting in their favour. This lock-out has the potential to could get ugly and drawn out because it's not about something simple like wages or benefits.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Is the CBC off air or something? Good thing I never watch it or listen to it, I might miss it, NOT!


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

CBC = Really really bad Canadian programming.

It just better be back on when Hockey Night in Canada comes back. Probably the only good thing about the CBC.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> Good thing I never watch it or listen to it,


It shows..


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

I miss the National mostly but there are other excellent CBC programs such as the 5th Estate, etc. The autobiographical piece on David Halton's retirement a couple of weeks go was very moving. Dr. Who is still running (but I missed it again - I get home too late - will wait for the DVD). Da Vinci's Inquest..... I also miss NewsWorld. I can only stand a few minutes of CTV or Global news, or City TV news. Their news broadcasts are so formulaic that its like watching the same variety show over and over. Why DO they have to glamourize the weather??


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

on the days when i don't bike the 21km (each way) to work, i like to listen to the news and the Current on the way in. i can't stand the drive home programming - mostly the same mindless banter than can be found on commercial radio, which i never listen to.

i HATE the regular CBC tv station, but LOVE the one that is more news oriented. personally i think the regular CBC station should be scrapped completely so that the CBC can stop wasting money buying american programming. (commercial stations already do that, duh.)


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Interesting poll results so far. An overwhelmingly positive response to the "daily CBC" question from the citizens of ehmac.

That speaks volumes about the demographic of this place. Especially given the fact that about 80% (if memory serves) of the Canadian population do NOT watch or listen to the CBC with any sort of regularity.

Regularly listening to, or watching, a state sponsored media outlet on a daily basis....one that has been wholly-owned and totally controlled by one single political party for most of the last forty years, is virtually certain to skew one's persepective on at least a few subjects.

Or ALL of them! To put it mildly. 

This explains a lot..... Now we know.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

MacNutt said:


> Regularly listening to, or watching, a state sponsored media outlet on a daily basis....one that has been wholly-owned and totally controlled by one single political party for most of the last forty years, is virtually certain to skew one's persepective on at least a few subjects.
> 
> Or ALL of them! To put it mildly.


Spewing more garbage I see....

The Liberal party does not own the CBC, nor is it controlled by it.....


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## absinthe (Jun 12, 2004)

Yes most CBC people that I know are leftist commie bastards like myself...far worse than those middle of the road grits...


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

The Liberal Party of Canada has appointed every single director of the CBC for most of the last four decades. That director selects, very carefully mind you, ALL of the people who work beneath him/her.

The Liberal Party of Canada...while acting as the government...writes a cheque for almost a BILLION dollars to FUND the CBC each year! Despite the fact that the CBC seems to also run as many commercials as most other media outlets.

A state run and state controlled media outlet that is Bought and PAID for. 

Case closed. The prosecution rests.


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## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

MacNutt said:


> Interesting poll results so far. An overwhelmingly positive response to the "daily CBC" question from the citizens of ehmac.
> 
> That speaks volumes about the demographic of this place. Especially given the fact that about 80% (if memory serves) of the Canadian population do NOT watch or listen to the CBC with any sort of regularity.
> 
> Regularly listening to, or watching, a state sponsored media outlet on a daily basis....one that has been wholly-owned and totally controlled by one single political party for most of the last forty years, is virtually certain to skew one's persepective on at least a few subjects.


A few points for you to ponder, MacNutt:

1. Have you considered the possibility that many here watch/listen to other news programming as well as the CBC? Personally, I watch CTV but I surf cbc.ca.

2. Yes, the CBC is state-owned, as are our public schools. Are you going to condemn them as skewed, Liberal-controlled propaganda machines?

3. CityTV is privately owned. In my own experience, it tends to be much more slanted to the "left" than the CBC. Does the gov't control them too?

4. What do you think of the BBC? Who controls them?

5. So listening/watching state-sponsored media on a daily basis is virtually certain to skew one's perspective? Does listening/watching business-run media on a daily basis also certain to skew one's perspective?

As for ehMac's demographics: this is a forum for computer nerds. And not just any computer nerds, but Mac-using computer nerds. If I could make so simple assumptions:

1. We spend more money on computer stuff than average Canadians;
2. We spend more money on computer stuff than average computer users;
3. We spend more time typing in a faceless forum than most Canadians, computers users, or Mac users;
4. Computer users, as a rule, tend towards unconventional political beliefs. Libertarians, social democrats, neo-Trotskyists, and radical environmentalists are far more common among computer nerds than among the general population.

Oh, and most importantly,

5. Spending time on ehMac listening to unconvincing and reactionary diatribes usually drives the last remaining bits of conservatism from most people.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

MacNutt said:


> Regularly listening to, or watching, a state sponsored media outlet on a daily basis....one that has been wholly-owned and totally controlled by one single political party for most of the last forty years, is virtually certain to skew one's persepective on at least a few subjects.
> 
> Or ALL of them! To put it mildly.
> 
> This explains a lot..... Now we know.


I totally agree. I think the CBC is definately biased in favour of the Liberal Party. Whenever I watch CBC TV, I start to resent it. I wish they would be more politically neutral.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

lpkmckenna said:


> A few points for you to ponder, MacNutt:
> 
> 1. Have you considered the possibility that many here watch/listen to other news programming as well as the CBC? Personally, I watch CTV but I surf cbc.ca.
> 
> ...


_ 

The prosecution AND the defence rests their case.  

NEXT! _


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## gwillikers (Jun 19, 2003)

The thing is... with the nearly total domination of the Canadian mainstream media by one billionaire family, how can we not defend a viable alternative voice like the CBC? I'd take CBCspeak over Asperspeak any day.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

gwillikers said:


> The thing is... with the nearly total domination of the Canadian mainstream media by one billionaire family, how can we not defend a viable alternative voice like the CBC? I'd take CBCspeak over Asperspeak any day.


I wonder to what extent this can be blamed on the CRTC for being so strict with broadcast licenses. 

I agree with your concern of media control. I would prefer more voices, than fewer.

However, I don't think this concern justifies the political bias of the CBC.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I get my news from several different outlets on a daily basis. Some Canadian, some not. I also read newspapers. And I have friends in several countries (from my overseas oilpatch days) who check in and tell me what is going on in their particular part of the world.

But I make a point of NOT watching state-run and state-controlled media outlets. Especially for the news.

I learned this habit when I lived in the countries that had a state-run media. No one in any of those places gave even a second thought to the sort of claptrap propaganda that was promoted on state-run TV stations. Or what was written in state run newspapers, either.

They KNEW is was all slanted _BULLSH*T_. Bought and paid for by the party in power. 

That was especially true in Cuba, BTW.  

Canada would run a close second to Cuba. Pretty much the same crew running the show...and paying the bills...and choosing the heads of the news department...for almost FORTY YEARS!!??!! 

You might want to take note that the USA has NO state-run media outlet.

(welll..they do have PBS...but does anyone here think that it marches to the beat of George Bush?? NO? Didn't think so..)


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## gwillikers (Jun 19, 2003)

Vandave said:


> I wonder to what extent this can be blamed on the CRTC for being so strict with broadcast licenses.
> 
> I agree with your concern of media control. I would prefer more voices, than fewer.
> 
> However, I don't think this concern justifies the political bias of the CBC.


It's certainly far from a perfect playing field, but I'll take what might be construed as political bias, over censorship. The disciplining of journalists has become frighteningly common under the wing of the media giant.

Besides Vandave, you live in B.C., surely you can see that media bias is very alive and well right here. And I'm not talking about the CBC.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

And _THAT_, my friend, is exactly why no one in their right mind would ever get all of their news data from one single source.

ESPECIALLY a state-run and state-funded media outlet. One that is and has been controlled for almost four decades by a single political party?

Like the CBC!?

Watch it ocasionally, if you like. Be my guest...

But "_DAILY_"...as so many here have admitted to?? 

YIKES! Propaganda overload.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Gerry, if you were in my class, you just failed in your assignment. You quoted lpkmckenna's posting #33, which he ended with 

"Oh, and most importantly,

5. Spending time on ehMac listening to unconvincing and reactionary diatribes usually drives the last remaining bits of conservatism from most people." 

However, then you went on to add the following:

"-This one is really a side-splitter. I'm sure you will have everyone rolling in the aisles when they read it! Especially given the fact that the left is seriously on the run in pretty much all four corners of this planet these days. Or...have you been brainwashed into not seeing this simple bit of modern reality, as well? (due to an overdose of state-sponsored propaganda doled out by a state run media outlet perhaps? Just a thought...)

But keep on swinging at those fastballs. You might just hit one someday! And SOMEONE has to keep the faith, after all. Even when everyone else is leaving the park."

I thought to myself that this did not seem like part of lpkmckenna's arguement, and sure enough, it was not part of his posting #33 which you were quoting. Most university professors and even junior and senior high school teachers consider this to be unethical and a form of plagiarism.

If you want people to listen to your arguements, if you quote someone else you at least need to quote them accurately. Just a thought.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

absinthe said:


> Yes most CBC people that I know are leftist commie bastards like myself...far worse than those middle of the road grits...


you forgot "pinko" and "godless"


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

MacNutt said:


> And _THAT_, my friend, is exactly why no one in their right mind would ever get all of their news data from one single source.
> 
> ESPECIALLY a state-run and state-funded media outlet. One that is and has been controlled for almost four decades by a single political party?
> 
> ...


or maybe your premise is incorrect and not only are you macnutt, but you're totally nuts
and i don't see a link to this "factoid" of "if memory servers 80% of canadians don't listen/watch the CBC"

any proof of that feeling or did you find that at the bottom of the bottle of Lagavulin?

HYPOTHESIS: over 80% of what macnutt types on ehmac is made up in his own mind without any proof or reference material

PROOF: just read his posts

QED


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

The temporary absence of the CBC just drives home how important the broadcaster is to me. Years ago, while living in Quebec City, CBC radio (Morningside) was a good friend as I was struggling to learn French and felt quite isolated. Also, I have driven this fine Country quite extensively and CBC radio has again been a fantastic companion. As one station begins to crackle and fade, all one has to do is channel surf to pick it up again, loud and clear. It is informative, educational and entertaining. I'm missing it terribly.  

I find it interesting that our self proclaimed resident right-wingers take such offensive to the CBC. Is it the freedom of speech they disagree with? Should all information/ entertainment be commercially driven? Is it scary for them to share the soapbox with alternative voices? Commercial radio is just that, commercial. Programming and mandates dictated by advertisers. There are so few outlets that are not purely commercially driven. The CBC, NPR in the States and others worldwide (which I'm sure others can name). Regardless of the state run media conspiracy/ paranoia, I don't want my news etc. being filtered by the board of directors of a cat food conglomerate, or worse. If you find the CBC too distressing with it's non-commercial views, please kindly tune-out and find you solace with other outlets, like say, The 700 Club?


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## Mrs. Furley (Sep 1, 2004)

I sure miss CBC radio...especially in the morning.
The one good thing is that I've been able to catch the 50 essential songs which is being replayed from a couple of weeks ago. Today it's the 80's which I'm very excited about. 


...hey absinthe, where'd you get that avatar?!?


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Since when does listening/watching the CBC daily mean people only listen/watch the CBC? I read the Globe and Mail paper before leaving home, listen to a few minutes of 680 News driving in, 102.1 The Edge, catch up on the BBC and other news websites during the day, listen to CBC radio going home (music or features, not news), usually catch the National at 10 (HiDef) but also watch other channels (I don't watch much TV - maybe 30 mins a day).

I do not understand the irrational hatred of some people of the CBC. Perhaps its simply because they are paying for something they personally don't make use of. In which case, they likely also resent any tax payers money spent on the arts and culture and science, etc., etc., etc.


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

The CBC absence is sending me into withdrawal. I listen to Radio One and Watch CBC religiously. I went our and bought an HDTV Tuner just to get the CBC HD feed from Toronto. I've also bought a software package called iRecordMuisc that works with iCal so I can schedule recording various CBC shows I like such as Vinyl Cafe, Quirks and Quarks and Ideas.

This strike is killing me. CBC MANAGEMENT SETTLE NOW!

I will pay higher taxes to support the CBC... I would also subscribe (pay) for more CBC Services.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> or maybe your premise is incorrect and not only are you macnutt, but you're totally nuts
> and i don't see a link to this "factoid" of "if memory servers 80% of canadians don't listen/watch the CBC"
> 
> any proof of that feeling or did you find that at the bottom of the bottle of Lagavulin?
> ...



I used the words "if memory serves" because I can remember hearing a statistic a few years back...I think it weas actually on the CBC itself...that said that only about 18% of the total Canadaian population listens regularly to CBC radio. And, I suspect that their TV ratings are even lower than that. I know that the evening news is usually the most watched segment of any TV networks daily programming...and the CBC news here in the coast is the least watched out of all of the available news broadcasts. It's so far down the list that it barely registers.

Got any data that might show these figures are wrong? Then feel free. 

Enlighten us, Michael....


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Dr.G. said:


> Gerry, if you were in my class, you just failed in your assignment. You quoted lpkmckenna's posting #33, which he ended with
> 
> "Oh, and most importantly,
> 
> ...



Dr.G...perhaps you might want to go back and re-read the original post that I was quoting from. It is all there. I added nothing but my comments or rebuttals.

Check for yourself.


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

MacNutt said:


> ...I think it weas (sic) actually on the CBC itself...that said that only about 18% of the total Canadaian (sic) population listens regularly to CBC radio...


The population of Canada was projected by StatsCan to be *32,233,955* by July 1 2005. Eighteen percent of 32,233,955 is *5,802,111.9*. This is by no means an insignificant number. And that's quite the dead horse you're beating there.


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## bryanc (Jan 16, 2004)

Despite not having a TV myself, I really miss CBC radio 1. However, Radio 2 sounds better... more music and less talk.

With respect to our local Right-winger's contention that, as a state-owned media service, the CBC is a propaganda outlet, I have to completely disagree. I've heard more and better supported criticism of the government (both during the Tory years and during the subsequent Liberal years) on CBC than from any other media outlet. 

By MacNutt's own admission, the American state-funded Public Broadcast Corporation is one of the most vocal critics of the Bush administration, and the BBC is also a very well-balanced purveyor of political analysis.

In contrast, privately owned media, such as Fox, CNN and CityTV are almost laughably biased in their presentations of the news.

So, how then can one conclude that, because CBC is funded by the government, it must be politically biased towards the current administration?

I just don't get it.


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

I just noticed that some of the locked out CBC employees in Vancouver have started their own Podcast... I LOVE the iPod!

Podcasting Rocks!


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Here's a useful site if you want to look at the statistics of Canadian's watching and listening habits: Friends of Canadian Broadcasting.


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## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

Question. Have you considered the possibility that many here watch/listen to other news programming as well as the CBC? Personally, I watch CTV but I surf cbc.ca.

Answer. Most of the people who have responded to this poll claim to watch the CBC on a "daily Basis" The news segment of any network broadcast is the most watched programming. This means that most of the people who have responded to this ehmac poll so far get MOST of their news from a state sponsored, state funded media outlet. Controlled and funded by one single political party for almost all of the last forty years!
Can you say "biased" Can you say "brainwashing"? Good. Knew you could.

Rebuttal. Many assumptions here. Your third sentence uses "most" three times, without any substantiation. And the Liberals neither control nor fund the CBC. The Government of Canada does. And while the CBC does have a "left-leaning" bias, there is no brainwashing. Brainwashing is being locked in a room, drugged, beaten, sleep-deprived, and subjected to a monotonous drone of slogans and misinformation.



Question. Yes, the CBC is state-owned, as are our public schools. Are you going to condemn them as skewed, Liberal-controlled propaganda machines?

Answer. Don't know if the public schools are "Liberal-controlled propaganda machines" as you have speculated. But I do know that they are deeply influenced by the union/leftist bias of many of their teachers. This is not up for dispute. It is well documented. And it's amazing how long the lineups are when a few vacancies are posted in the private "traditional" schools around here. Parents bring their camping gear and line up for days. Just to get their children into a school that ISN'T deeply skewed towards the looney left.

Rebuttal. Not up for dispute? You mean, when the Harris government in Ontario restructured the school system, it was really the teacher's union at work? The teacher's union has an influence, but not on the curriculum. That's what school boards and provincial governments are for. And while some parents put their kids in private schools over the content, the chief reasons are safety, class size, religious education, and high academic records for those schools. It has nothing to do with "the looney left." And the teachers line up to work there too, for better pay and less politics.



Question. CityTV is privately owned. In my own experience, it tends to be much more slanted to the "left" than the CBC. Does the gov't control them too?

Answer. Nope. As far as I know...anyone in Canada can be a looney leftie or a radical right winger. That goes for ultra-rich guys like Znaimier. And anyone can choose to watch it if they want. Or not. But we are talking about the state run CBC here. Try to stay on topic.

Rebuttal. You made a generalized statement linking news-funding and political-bias. I was testing the validity. It's fully on topic.



Question. What do you think of the BBC? Who controls them?

Answer. The BBC is sometimes good, sometimes bad. A documentary crew once revealed the fact that even the guys who RUN the BBC don't know who is in what department...or how many departments there are. Or what they actually do. And this shouldn't surpris anyone...after all, the BBC is a state run media outlet that is funded by taxpayers..

But, again...you are getting off topic. We are talking about the CBC here. Not the BBC.

Rebuttal. But, again...I was testing the validity of your generalized statements linking news-funding and political-bias. Your funding=bias link is clearly invalid.



Question. So listening/watching state-sponsored media on a daily basis is virtually certain to skew one's perspective? Does listening/watching business-run media on a daily basis also certain to skew one's perspective?

Answer. All companies outside of state run and state funded ones must be run as a business. They must make a profit or at least break even in order to stay in business. Or they go broke and dissappear. This does not necessarily give them some commonality of political agenda. It's just simple reality.

The state run media, on the other hand, are not governed by these rules of life. So they can spend wads of (tax) money and time promoting a single minded political agenda. The one that the political party who writes their paychecks and selects their leaders, has in mind. This is news to you?

Rebuttal. It's a common complaint among "left" that the business nature of news agencies creates a pro-business slant in their reporting. Hence the expression "freedom of the press is only for those who own one." The idea here is that newspapers suppress stories which are unflattering to the stockholders and advertisers. The "right" does the exact same thing, but turns it around, making assertions that the state-news is slanted to defend the government.

I utterly reject both viewpoints. But you dismissively reject the former view while aggressively propagate the latter view. An ugly shirt is still ugly, even when you wear it inside-out.



Statement. Computer users, as a rule, tend towards unconventional political beliefs. Libertarians, social democrats, neo-Trotskyists, and radical environmentalists are far more common among computer nerds than among the general population.

Response. This one is a pure assumption. Most people are pretty much normal. Mostly. And, unless you can show your work...and some good data to back your wild assumptions...then I think we could probably just chalk this one up to the previously mantioned brainwashing. Or a bad lump of porridge in your morning gruel. (HEY...it made Scrooge see ghosts, after all)

Rebuttal. "Brainwashing."


Inigo Montoya said:


> You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.


Have a read: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1891620789/102-7894346-7520956?v=glance.

"Most people are pretty much normal. Mostly." No kidding, eh? Maybe because normal is defined as what most people do? But unconventional viewpoints aren't abnormal.



Statement. Spending time on ehMac listening to unconvincing and reactionary diatribes usually drives the last remaining bits of conservatism from most people.

Response. This one is really a side-splitter. I'm sure you will have everyone rolling in the aisles when they read it! Especially given the fact that the left is seriously on the run in pretty much all four corners of this planet these days. Or...have you been brainwashed into not seeing this simple bit of modern reality, as well? (due to an overdose of state-sponsored propaganda doled out by a state run media outlet perhaps? Just a thought...)

Rebuttal. You seem to have a problem with black/white thinking. While socialism is a dying movement, a left-of-centre viewpoint is still quite common in Western nations. The trend towards bigger gov't/higher taxes/more social spending is stalled, but the left has found an adequate role opposing conservative proposals to diminish the scope of government. And the "right" is having much difficulty implementing privatization (Ontario Hydro, anyone?), finding a charismatic leader (Manning? Day? Harper?), and difficulty reconciling its conservative and liberal wings on "moral" issues.

"Brainwashed."


Inigo Montoya said:


> You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.


The left is not on the run "in pretty much all four corners of the planet." France, Spain, England, and Germany are all governed by left-of-centre parties. And, of course, Canada has been governed by the Liberals for quite a while, though the Liberal party is really a big tent, from right-of-centre to left-of-centre.

MacNutt, you are advocating an extremely unbalanced viewpoint. You are talking small facts (ie government funding), small observations (ie leftish slant to CBC news), and drawing up outlandish conclusions (brainwashing). If you wonder why I don't take your viewpoints very seriously, this is why. (And your tendency towards smug statements and ineffective humour.)

A balanced view is easy: take the views of the news with a grain of salt. Yes, the nature of funding for an institution (news or otherwise) influences its outlook. If one has a heathly skepticism, something beneficial can be drawn from even the most heavily-biased of news reporting.


----------



## bryanc (Jan 16, 2004)

Nicely done, lpkmckenna, that was a tour-de-force.

I wonder if any of it will sink in?


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Like water off a ducks arse if past behaviour means anything......


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

"sink in "??..old dog new tricks??......naw. 

••••

Good post ipk

From a NeoCon standpoint the majority - some 75% of the rest of the nation and also Britain is left anyways so why should they view the CBC in any different light.

For my 2¢ - I feel the CBC takes the role of the 4th estate very very much to heart and are mastered by none in terms of content.
The press in the US is being neutered by business interests - *a free press is a fundamental pillar of a modern democratic society *.

Too many people forget that - they are as critical or perhaps more critical than other "institutions".
I've never seen the CBC as apologists for the gov in power - if anything it's a target as it rightfully should be.

One could only wish our politicians were held to same account as a lying reporter suffers.


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## thejst (Feb 1, 2005)

Unreal post LPKM... thanks for that.


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## thejst (Feb 1, 2005)

"One could only wish our politicians were held to same account as a lying reporter suffers."

well put.


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## Melonie (Feb 10, 2005)

*No more Moses...*

Just dropping off a tidbit of info: Moses Znaimer sold his stake in CityTV a few years ago. He has absolutely no ties to CityTV any longer.

Mel



> Question. CityTV is privately owned. In my own experience, it tends to be much more slanted to the "left" than the CBC. Does the gov't control them too?
> 
> Answer. Nope. As far as I know...anyone in Canada can be a looney leftie or a radical right winger. That goes for ultra-rich guys like Znaimier.


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## absinthe (Jun 12, 2004)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> you forgot "pinko" and "godless"


I resent that... I am a very spiritual person, in a non-denominational sort of way...I look quite good in pink too.


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## absinthe (Jun 12, 2004)

Mrs. Furley said:


> ...hey absinthe, where'd you get that avatar?!?


I wanted a copy and I called Thom up and he sent me one over...all of radiohead's old sites arearchived online.


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## MBD (Sep 1, 2003)

Well the CBC is the only place that I heard a fair discussion with Muslims and Jews in Israel. For that, they were labelled antisemitic (even amongst my Jewish friends) - to me it was fair and enlightening. No privatetly run media outlet had the ability (since their sponsers would go nuts at the controversy) to address the issue.

I miss the CBC. I support the CBC and I even have American Republican friends that listen to it as their news source.


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## absinthe (Jun 12, 2004)

I am always interested when there is surprise or indignation at the fact that the CBC may be biased. News is biased, history is biased. The whole point of staying informed is to seek out different sources for information to develop your own opinion on any given matter. Its called critical thinking.


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## sinjin (Jul 12, 2003)

Love CBC radio and want it back ASAP. It is a part of my life. CBC television is OK, glad it is there (when not on strike) but not too emotional about it.

I've experienced NPR (US public radio equivalent) for years and taste of BBC radio and think we are incredibly lucky in Canada to have possibly the best radio programming in the world.

If you are a Canadian who doesn't yet listen to CBC radio, I envy you. You have an incredible turning point in your life just waiting to happen, like a coming of age experience. Assuming we don't gut the whole thing and sell it down the river.


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## Jason H (Feb 1, 2004)

Well, I cant comment on this bias thing, but they had Great Big Sea live tonight and two episodes of coronation street so CBC ROCKS


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

*I Want My CBC*

The question should have been How often DID you watch/listen to the CBC

I want my CBC. I consumed CBC broadcasting daily. Radio 1, NewsWorld and CBC TV

Now I only listen to the Morning show out of Moncton and when I'm travelling in Northern New Brunswick, a feed from Quebec, these "on air" people are the only CBC "on air workers" not locked out. 

I refuse to listen to SCAB radio nor do I view SCAB TV. 

This week the radio in my kitchen was changed from 1070 AM CBC to commercial FM (inane) Radio by of all people ME!!!!!! 

I am now forced to watch the ATV evening news out of Halifax with Steve "Potato Head" Murphy UGGHHH!

I want to point out this is NOT a strike This IS A LOCKOUT by management. The CBC's "in charge" (Civil Servants) caused this loss of our excellent Canadian programming.  

To show the quality of the people currently locked out go to this site created by CBC' s self proclaimed Techno-Geek Tod Maffin for a balanced view of this dispute.


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## darkscot (Nov 13, 2003)

BigDL said:


> I refuse to listen to SCAB radio nor do I view SCAB TV.


Awesome BigDL! I won't listen to it either (and TV is off for me in the summer anyhow).

I think contracting their employees is despicable and taints our country's good name. Our own government is dodging giving our people good, reliable jobs with benefits.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Over the years, I have witnessed the largesse of the CBC too many times.

A crew to cover hockey or football by private networks numbers near 10 or so.

It takes a CBC crew of 30 to accomplish the same thing.

I don't miss 'em a bit, and frankly they can fire 'em all and save us taxpayers the drain on our pocketbooks.

Really, they just are not that good.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

SINC said:


> Really, they just are not that good.


And what do you mean by not that good? Are you talking quality of services or just how many are there.


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

SINC said:


> Over the years, I have witnessed the largesse of the CBC too many times.
> 
> A crew to cover hockey or football by private networks numbers near 10 or so.
> 
> It takes a CBC crew of 30 to accomplish the same thing.


Did you ever think that it's the people "In Charge" (you know the ones that caused the lockout) that organized the event authorizing "too many" people to cover hockey or football? 

Perhaps some criticism should be directed towards those folks? 

Usually aren't the ones "In Charge" held responsible?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

BigDL said:


> Usually aren't the ones "In Charge" held responsible?


I suppose you hold the union not responsible in any way?

Hardly. It is their call on how many workers WILL be present under the contract. It's called "propping up" in union lingo. Negotiate more bodies than we need to pad our pockets is the mentality. CBC types are master of this deception.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ArtistSeries said:


> And what do you mean by not that good? Are you talking quality of services or just how many are there.


See the previous post. Unions have ruined the CBC.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I'll tell you a little story here...and it might just relate where SOME of your tax dollars are actually going. You DO know that the CBC sucks a whole BILLION Canadian tax dollars out of our public budget each and every year, didn't you?

Despite the fact that it seems to run about the same number of commercial spots as pretty much every other TV network. YIKES!

My ex girlfriend had a mother with a very colourful past, who originally came from Ontario and was living in east Vancouver in the late eighties. A CBC documentary crew was out there at that particular time and they were making a documentary about how some women made a living. They soon found my girlfriend's mum. I'll call her Clarissa.

One of the multitude of "producers" of this documentary became quite taken with Clarissa and he began to spend some time with her. Both during the filming and after the cameras were shut off. She told me many times how he had "flown her to Ottawa for lunch at a VERY fancy restaurant on a private CBC jet, and back to the coast again before nightfall". She said he'd done this more than once during the ten days that they were shooting her daily activities.

When she asked him how he could possibly have a private jet at his disposal for such a small indy type documentary...he always said "it's not my nickel! The taxpayers are covering all of this stuff because it's good for the country!"

She also remarked...as SINC has...that, while they were filming, there always seemed to be a very large number of people milling about who had no real job to do. And she had been around film sets before this, BTW.

Your tax dollars at work. 

And...with only about 18% of the population actually watching regularly, too!

Money well spent?


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

BigDL said:


> The question should have been How often DID you watch/listen to the CBC
> 
> I want my CBC. I consumed CBC broadcasting daily. Radio 1, NewsWorld and CBC TV
> 
> ...


Whenever people start using the word SCAB to descibe those who have NOT chosen to "withdraw their services until they get a better paycheck"...

Then I know exactly who that person is. And what their personal philosophy consists of. 

Congratulations "Union Man".  

Shut down any employers lately? Killed any jobs lately?


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## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

absinthe said:


> I am always interested when there is surprise or indignation at the fact that the CBC may be biased. News is biased, history is biased. The whole point of staying informed is to seek out different sources for information to develop your own opinion on any given matter. Its called critical thinking.


Best post I've read in some time.


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## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

SINC said:


> Unions have ruined the CBC.


Interesting opinion from a man who admires Tommy Douglas.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

SINC said:


> See the previous post. Unions have ruined the CBC.


Sinc, the CBC has better technical services than the private sector in Canada.
The quality of a CBC radio broadcast is one of the best that you can find. 
I don' t see the private sector matching that, as it is profit based. 
The small market in Canada will not afford CTV, TVA, TQS or Global the resources to actually broadcast quality. Global seems to have the worst signals anywhere.

The role of the union in the CBC, is something else entirely. I'm sure that you and Stinand can regale us with stories real and perceived.

The role of the CBC, as pointed out in this Thread, is vital to most Canadians. 
Many years ago, the only exposure to English Canada that many in Quebec had was via the CBC. Surely that can't be all that bad now, can it?


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## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

SINC said:


> Over the years, I have witnessed the largesse of the CBC too many times. A crew to cover hockey or football by private networks numbers near 10 or so. It takes a CBC crew of 30 to accomplish the same thing.


I've heard the same thing, but I haven't witnessed it personally. I suppose the CBC could be run like CityTV, with one guy/gal doing everything on location. That would save tax money, but we already know it would really suck.

You cannot blame the union for this kind of thing. The union's job is to lookout for their member's interests. The CBC management is at fault if they handle state funds irresponsibly, including giving in to "union featherbedding" demands.

(This lockout possibly results from the current CBC management trying to get a handle on expenditures. But that is a wild guess.)


SINC said:


> I don't miss 'em a bit, and frankly they can fire 'em all and save us taxpayers the drain on our pocketbooks.


I'm sure you meant privatize, right? I'm wouldn't be too keen putting all those CBC employees on pogey.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

NOTE: This is going to have to be presented in two or maybe three parts. The vBulletin software at ehmac won't let a post this long be presented without splitting it this way.

My latests responses begin with the word "ANSWER"...



lpkmckenna said:


> Question. Have you considered the possibility that many here watch/listen to other news programming as well as the CBC? Personally, I watch CTV but I surf cbc.ca.
> 
> Answer. Most of the people who have responded to this poll claim to watch the CBC on a "daily Basis" The news segment of any network broadcast is the most watched programming. This means that most of the people who have responded to this ehmac poll so far get MOST of their news from a state sponsored, state funded media outlet. Controlled and funded by one single political party for almost all of the last forty years!
> Can you say "biased" Can you say "brainwashing"? Good. Knew you could.
> ...


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

MacNutt said:


> I'll tell you a little story here...and it might just relate where SOME of your tax dollars are actually going. You DO know that the CBC sucks a whole BILLION Canadian tax dollars out of our public budget each and every year, didn't you?


Yes, what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?




MacNutt said:


> Despite the fact that it seems to run about the same number of commercial spots as pretty much every other TV network. YIKES!


Are you sure? Then show me the proof, or is this more "MacNutt reality®"
I'm glad you wrote "seems" - Again, what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? 



MacNutt said:


> My ex girlfriend had a mother with a very colourful past, who originally came from Ontario and was living in east Vancouver in the late eighties. A CBC documentary crew was out there at that particular time and they were making a documentary about how some women made a living. They soon found my girlfriend's mum. I'll call her Clarissa.





MacNutt said:


> One of the multitude of "producers" of this documentary became quite taken with Clarissa and he began to spend some time with her. Both during the filming and after the cameras were shut off. She told me many times how he had "flown her to Ottawa for lunch at a VERY fancy restaurant on a private CBC jet, and back to the coast again before nightfall". She said he'd done this more than once during the ten days that they were shooting her daily activities.


MacNutt, I find this as EASY to believe as your having lunch with Robin Williams..... PUNCTUATING with BIG letters - WHAT'S the POINT? I heard that SPRING WATER can KILL YOU. 



MacNutt said:


> When she asked him how he could possibly have a private jet at his disposal for such a small indy type documentary...he always said "it's not my nickel! The taxpayers are covering all of this stuff because it's good for the country!"


 ANECDOTES with no PROOF.... Private jets? Just like all residents of SSI.... uhmmm....



MacNutt said:


> She also remarked...as SINC has...that, while they were filming, there always seemed to be a very large number of people milling about who had no real job to do. And she had been around film sets before this, BTW.


I smell a CONSPIRACY.... someone call in the SUN.... or the PAGE 3 girl.... 



MacNutt said:


> Your tax dollars at work.


What does that have to do with the PRICE OF TEA IN CHINA?


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

lpkmckenna
Second verse...same as the first...a little bit louder and a little bit worse...
Statement. Spending time on ehMac listening to unconvincing and reactionary diatribes usually drives the last remaining bits of conservatism from most people.
Response. This one is really a side-splitter. I'm sure you will have everyone rolling in the aisles when they read it! Especially given the fact that the left is seriously on the run in pretty much all four corners of this planet these days. Or...have you been brainwashed into not seeing this simple bit of modern reality said:


>


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## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

I think the CBC can be improved. Mine would be:
1. Canadian-only programming.
2. Reduction of "regional content" and focus on national issues.
3. Merge the "headline news" and "conventional programming" channels.
4. Abandon content served by specialty channels (weather)
5. Improve fiscal management. If Canada Post and AECL can make money, why not the CBC?
6. Better scrutinize CBC productions. The glaring inaccuracies of "The Valor and the Horror" and "The Arrow" are big contributing factors to negative appraisals of the CBC.
7. Share "Hockey Night in Canada" with the other networks. The CBC would continue to control the production, but CTV and Global could provide their own commentary and commercials.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

lpkmckenna, thank you for trying to get this thread back on track. 
MacNutt diatribe reminds me of Swiss Cheese. Full of holes twisting and turning in all directions...


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## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

MacNutt, you are obfuscating by shifting your terminology. But I noticed.

The left-of-centre is not dead. You try to "prove" that they are by talking about the economic problems of England, France, Germany, and Spain. We weren't discussing the economic state, but the political state of these countries. They are run by the left-of-center. And you can try to look in your crystal ball, but neither of us knows the election outcomes, happening in the future on another continent.



MacNutt said:


> One of us certainly seems to have an "unbalanced viewpoint" and a slightly skewed take on world events. I would humbly suggest that one of us must be getting all of their news data from a news media outlet that is wholly funded and controlled by a single political party. One with a bit of a bias towards their own particular take on the world...


You are anything but humble. I have already said that I only visit the CBC website, but watch CTV news. Not only are you arrogant enough to tell me what I watch, you insist on it after I have said otherwise.


MacNutt said:


> Good. That means you admit that what the state funded CBC spoon feeds you each night should be taken "with a grain of salt".


As I clearly said, I take all news with a grain of salt. Taking my words out of context to present it as a completely different conclusion is intellectually dishonest. Good thing you sell water and not pharmaceuticals, eh?

Your method of argumentation is really getting under my skin. Look at the common trend in these statements:

1. "Privatization is a very successful movement that is gaining ground in places that we never would have thought it would."
2. "A popular right of center government was bombed out of office during election week by carefully timed Al Qaeda explosives! Everyone knows this!"
3. "That means you admit that what the state funded CBC spoon feeds you each night should be taken with a grain of salt."

See the trend? This is complete hyperbole: "we never would have thought, everyone knows this, you admit that." You do not know what others are thinking. Putting words in others mouths with not improve your poor arguments.

Here's another trend:

1. "Their left of center politicians have super low popularity, and are likely to be replaced. Things are going to change very suddenly in France...and rather soon."
2. "BIG changes coming in germany in the very near future too. Watch and see."

I'd love to hear where you pick-up that power of premonition. The dark side of the force, perhaps?

Darth MacNutt: Everything is proceeding as I have forseen it.
lpkwalker: Your arrogance is your weakness.


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## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

MacNutt said:


> Spain?? Are you KIDDING?? A popular right of center government was bombed out of office during election week by carefully timed Al Qaeda explosives! Everyone knows this! Even the slightly left of center politicians who were suddenly elected after the train bombings were a bit surprised by their sudden and unexpected success at the polls. Pick a better example.


No, I am not KIDDING!! KIDDING is not in my nature. If I were KIDDING you, I would use a  to indicate it.

Once again, you prove that you pull arguments out of your ass. The attack in Spain had nothing to do with the elections; that was incidental. But the attacks did occur 912 days after 9/11, on the 11th of March.

No one was bombed "out of office." Yet another absurd and tasteless assertion by MacNutt.


----------



## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

ArtistSeries said:


> Yes, what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
> 
> ANSWER- Not sure...what has tea got to do with this?
> 
> ...


In closing...Not sure what any of this has to do with the "price of tea in China"....

But to anyone who hasn't been totally brainwashed by a state-run media that is drilling a single pupose ideology into every single one of their unfortunate watchers heads, every single day, for several years...

It MIGHT just _MATTER_, really. Especially to someone who is concerned about where all those billions of Canadian tax dollars are actually spent.

Right now, they are being spent to promote the party that pays the paychecks.

Later on? We will _SEE_.....


----------



## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

MacNutt said:


> I'll tell you a little story here...When she asked him how he could possibly have a private jet at his disposal for such a small indy type documentary...he always said "it's not my nickel! The taxpayers are covering all of this stuff because it's good for the country!"
> 
> And...with only about 18% of the population actually watching regularly, too!
> 
> Money well spent?


My blood boils when I hear this garbage.  Why don't government employees care about spending taxpayers money? That attitude makes me want to privatize everything and ban public sector unions.

Our federal government is so inefficient and it is widespread across many departments. Some we can't even audit some Departments (such as Indian and Northern Affairs). Yet, under Paul Martin, our bureaucracy keeps growing at a rate greater than inflation and population growth. I guess it's only a matter of time before we all work for the feds.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Vandave said:


> My blood boils when I hear this garbage.  Why don't government employees care about spending taxpayers money? That attitude makes me want to privatize everything and ban public sector unions.
> 
> Our federal government is so inefficient and it is widespread across many departments. Some we can't even audit some Departments (such as Indian and Northern Affairs). Yet, under Paul Martin, our bureaucracy keeps growing at a rate greater than inflation and population growth. I guess it's only a matter of time before we all work for the feds.


This stuff pisses me off no end as well.

And I can't imagine why more Canadian taxpayers aren't up in arms about the massive waste of their hard earned tax dollars. 

Long-term brainwashing by regular exposure to the state-controlled CBC, perhaps....?  

Geee...do ya THINK?


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

MacNutt said:


> This stuff pisses me off no end as well.
> 
> And I can't imagine why more Canadian taxpayers aren't up in arms about the massive waste of their hard earned tax dollars.
> 
> ...


Because it's not a true story. It's a lie, a fabrication, a farce from someone trying to get a rise out of you.

So MacNutt, how does the CBC brain wash us? 
I'm listening.... (see the irony there? )


nb: look at all the pretty caps and icons that mean NOTHING....


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

lpkmckenna said:


> No, I am not KIDDING!! KIDDING is not in my nature. If I were KIDDING you, I would use a  to indicate it.
> 
> Once again, you prove that you pull arguments out of your ass. The attack in Spain had nothing to do with the elections; that was incidental. But the attacks did occur 912 days after 9/11, on the 11th of March.
> 
> No one was bombed "out of office." Yet another absurd and tasteless assertion by MacNutt.


ROTFL


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

Did anybody hear the recent study on the effects of a bias media on voting paterns?

The study found that partisan news did not have a measureable effect on voting. 

Interesting.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

ArtistSeries said:


> ROTFL


Yeah. That one even made ME laugh! 

To even imagine that those terrorist bombings on the train stations didn't suddenly sway the Spanish elections into the leftist camp, at the very last minute, is pure idiocy.

Every single commentator and political pundit was taking about the "unexpected last minute victory for the Spanish left, after the Madrid bombings".
This is a mtter of historical record. Much has been written about it over the past year.

But, then again...if you are a big fan of the CBC...then you might not have heard about any of this.  

(BTW you guys...earth is round. The sky is blue. Water is wet. Just so's you know.)


----------



## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

MacNutt said:


> (BTW you guys...earth is round. The sky is blue. Water is wet. Just so's you know.)


Reminds me of the Osama Bin Laden tape that showed up just before Bush stole the election...

MacNutt, earth is roundish, Rayleigh scattering is responsible for the colouring of the sky, water is not always wet (think of ice or vapour).
Just so that you know.....


----------



## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

MacNutt said:


> Yeah. That one even made ME laugh!
> 
> To even imagine that those terrorist bombings on the train stations didn't suddenly sway the Spanish elections into the leftist camp, at the very last minute, is pure idiocy.
> 
> ...


Once again, MacNutt, you twist words when the facts are against you. Here is what you said:


MacNutt said:


> Spain?? Are you KIDDING?? A popular right of center government was bombed out of office during election week by carefully timed Al Qaeda explosives! Everyone knows this! Even the slightly left of center politicians who were suddenly elected after the train bombings were a bit surprised by their sudden and unexpected success at the polls. Pick a better example.


The bombing was not "carefully timed" to force any election outcome. The event was timed to evoke the 9/11 attacks.

The left-of-centre likely did benefit at the polls because of the fear. Was it because the Socialists intended to pull out of Iraq? Or was it because the conservatives blamed Basque terrorists initially, and only switched to blaming Al Qaeda after the public demanded they release more information? Was the vote affected by the bombings, or the conservative's inadequate response to the bombings?

I didn't deny that the bombing may have changed the election outcome. I just asserted that affecting the election outcome wasn't the intent.

"Every single commentator and political pundit was taking about..." More hyperbole. You don't know what all those people said. 

Polls before the vote indicated a reduced majority for the conservatives, but the socialists won a minority instead. Happens all the time, even without bombings.


----------



## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

The earth is actually an oblate spheroid. That slight bulge in the middle is what makes the sun seem to go down so fast in the tropics.

I know this. I used to live there. 

And I'm not going to go into the rest right now, but there is a lot more. I was keeping it simple on purpose. Didn't want to confuse any of the "CBC types" out there, you know....


----------



## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

MacNutt said:


> The earth is actually an oblate spheroid. That slight bulge in the middle is what makes the sun seem to go down so fast in the tropics.


I did not want to strain you with big words - but you see it's not round like you posted...
Back to the subject please...


----------



## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

lpkmckenna said:


> Once again, MacNutt, you twist words when the facts are against you. Here is what you said:The bombing was not "carefully timed" to force any election outcome. The event was timed to evoke the 9/11 attacks.
> 
> The left-of-centre likely did benefit at the polls because of the fear. Was it because the Socialists intended to pull out of Iraq? Or was it because the conservatives blamed Basque terrorists initially, and only switched to blaming Al Qaeda after the public demanded they release more information? Was the vote affected by the bombings, or the conservative's inadequate response to the bombings?
> 
> ...


Yep...those Madrid train bombings just _HAPPENED_ to coincide with the Spanish elections. And Spain just _HAPPENED_ to have supported the invasion of Iraq. And the Spanish government that was suddenly and unexpectedly defeated by the shock of these terrorist bombings just _HAPPENED_ to be fully backing George W. Bush....

And the incoming left of center Spanish government that was elected right after the madrid bombings, in what everone said was a "surprising upset", just _HAPPENED_ to quickly distance themselves from their predecessors position on Iraq and the war on terror.

All of this is simply coincidence. A whole bunch of simple coincidences. They mean nothing! Especially when taken in their correct order. 

Correctamundo?

Congrats. Go to the head of the class. Valedictorian for the 2005 CBC school of brainwashing. Collect your medal at the door and report to feeding station number five. You will be allowed exactly fifteen minutes and thity seconds for sustenance. After that you will proceed to your cubicle for assignment.

One more thing before you go...Please pre-register your vote for the Liberal party of Canada before you leave. 

That will be all.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

MacNutt, what does ANY of THIS have to do with the CBC?

Your obtuseness is staggering. 
All this talk of CBC and brainwashing, make me wonder how you are immune...


----------



## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I only watch the CBC on rare occasions. Unlike the majority of ehmaclanders who have responded to the poll. (see above).

Mostly I watch it for a good chuckle. And, when there is some major event that shows how the left is failing badly...then I watch it to take note of the embarassing gaps in data that the CBC is so well known for. 

Always good for a laugh or two.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

So it's all about you? 

Rather then pollute ehmac and waste precious server space, why don't we debate this in the ehmac chatroom?

CBC fact checking: PROOF again?


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I'm not on ehmac chat just yet. Sorry. I am on yahoo messenger, tho. But I haven't been there in ages.

And...as for "fact checking on the CBC"???

Don't make me laugh. You'd have an easier time of it "fact-checking" Michael Moore. Arf arf arf...  

Remember...gaps and omissions of pertinent data are also equally as misleading as made up data that has no basis in fact.

That comes from my wellsite laboratory data logger's handbook. It's on the very first page, actually.


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## comprehab (May 28, 2005)

We'd love to see you pop into the ehmac chat room sometime, if you get a chance (i can see your a busy guy with the water, super truck, and not being brainwashed and all) but your always welcome there Hope to see you sometime


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Is it on iChat AV or something? My old G4 Sawtooth running Jag just won't handle that sort of thing.

Maybe when I buy my G5 Dualie, later this week.....


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## comprehab (May 28, 2005)

I'm sure it can handle it, any version of iChat will do. Heck, even using Aim on a windows machine will work. I'm in the room with my sawtooth all the time. If you need any help getting on, you can post int he ehmac ichat thread in ehmac feedback forum or the one located in anything mac. There are answers to FAQ for new chat room users in each of the threads (or atleast one of them) to help guide to the room. We could chat tomrrow maybe, I'm going to try and catch some sleep right now though. G'night.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Perhaps I'll try tomorrow.

Have a good evening.


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

Vandave said:


> My blood boils when I hear this garbage.  Why don't government employees care about spending taxpayers money? That attitude makes me want to privatize everything and ban public sector unions.
> 
> Our federal government is so inefficient and it is widespread across many departments. Some we can't even audit some Departments (such as Indian and Northern Affairs). Yet, under Paul Martin, our bureaucracy keeps growing at a rate greater than inflation and population growth. I guess it's only a matter of time before we all work for the feds.


This is conservative alarmist nonsense... Privatization, a good thing? Can you give me an example as to where... once, even once, that privatization worked out to the public good.

You folks out in BC haven't lived through the Ontario Hydro fiasco, you haven't seen just how inefficient privatization can be. Public utilities are just that... PUBLIC utilities. 

Ask someone in California what they think about privatization of a public utility or someone in Georgia.

Vandave, experience shows that privatization only benefits the corporations (and even then none succeed) and is NOT in public interest, since vast corporate subsidies have to be used to bail out corporation attempting to acquire public assets (or haven't you been paying attention to Air Canada a former crown corporation).


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

MacNutt said:


> And...as for "fact checking on the CBC"???
> 
> Don't make me laugh. You'd have an easier time of it "fact-checking" Michael Moore. Arf arf arf...
> 
> Remember...gaps and omissions of pertinent data are also equally as misleading as made up data that has no basis in fact.


I would imagine that it's hard to distort reality and spin a story the MacNutt Way®. When facts are not agreeing with what you have to say. 

Gaps and omissions or pertinent data sound just about right for what you have written here (and on most of your post).

Do you mind if I keep: "gaps and omissions of pertinent data are also equally as misleading as made up data that has no basis in fact.gaps and omissions of pertinent data are also equally as misleading as made up data that has no basis in fact."? Whenever I see one of your post, I'll just copy/paste that response, it should cover all scenarios with the Great MacNutt®



ps, from what store are you buying the dualie?


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## sketch (Sep 10, 2004)

Interesting thread (except I tried to skip over the MacNutt-vs.-everybody stuff. No offence to MacNutt and everybody, I just wanted to read about the CBC).



> Music variety is quite limited (boring) in St. John's. Not like TO or Montreal.


I wish we had variety here. Ok, maybe we do, but all the commercial stations play the same thing over and over and over. I think their entire music library is 5 CDs played on a carousel. That's one reason why I miss CBC Radio 1 so much. It's calm, no commercials, you'll always hear something different, and it's Canadian.



> Much missed right now - there is only so much 680 News and then Classical 94.6 I can take.


I wonder if Classical 94.6 is a sister stattion to Toronto's Classical 96. If so, do they play a lot of burial grounds and funeral arrangement commercials? How depressing. Another reaosn why I prefer CBC Radio 2.



> Memorial University's radio station is contemplating going on air with some pseudo-CBC programs, such as "Notions"... Actually, "Cats and Barks" will be a great hit here, since there are as many cat and dog owners as people who know what a quark is in physics.


Oh this I'd love to hear. Do they simulcast on the Internet? Anyone listen to Go? They took the original guy who hosted "Ideas" to talk about the art of disco. It was so funny (yet very interesting).



> CBC = Really really bad Canadian programming.


I think this is the problem with CBC TV's reputation. Everyone compares it to watching US prime time tv. I think the majority of viewers don't appreicate tv programs where they can learn something but instead prefer something as entertainment (sitcoms, US clones, etc.). I don't know why most Canadian tv shows are bad (look at the number of awful US shows) but there are some dimaonds in the rough.



> The thing is... with the nearly total domination of the Canadian mainstream media by one billionaire family, how can we not defend a viable alternative voice like the CBC? I'd take CBCspeak over Asperspeak any day.


Good point! AdBusters magazine had a feature on them. It was pretty scary.



> Also, I have driven this fine Country quite extensively and CBC radio has again been a fantastic companion. As one station begins to crackle and fade, all one has to do is channel surf to pick it up again, loud and clear. It is informative, educational and entertaining. I'm missing it terribly.


Ah yes, I remember driving to Montreal on a Saturday once and we were listening to CBC Radio (they ahve a fantastic lineup on Saturday mornings). Once in a while, we'd frantically search for the next frequency. It almost became a road trip game!



> I will pay higher taxes to support the CBC... I would also subscribe (pay) for more CBC Services.


Hey, in other countries, people pay an actual tv and radio tax to fund their public broadcaster. I think it's in Sweden or maybe it was Germany, I forget which, where the cost is something like $330 a year. 



> Well the CBC is the only place that I heard a fair discussion with Muslims and Jews in Israel... I even have American Republican friends that listen to it as their news source.


I reember hearing that broadcast. I thought to myself "FINALLY!". And a lot of Americans listen to CBC Radio over the Internet (especially during the gulf war) because they're tired of the propaganda they get from the US media.


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

Wow

It's incredible how the CBC has become yet another fiery debate between the right and left. Are arts and culture the exclusive playthings of the left? It's interesting how they are either overlooked, thought of as elitist or distrusted by our friends right of center. I guess mindless cop/ lawyer dramas, reruns of Archie Bunker and the oldies stations can suffice for some of the remaining 82% that don't tune in to the CBC. I must be naive but I thought the CBC would be something treasured by those of all political stripes. Though it seems for some the argument boils down to money. MY TAX DOLLARS, UNIONS etc. Can't see the forest for the paper the filthy lucre is printed on. YOUR tax dollars would be wasted on something regardless of party or ideology. If you actually listen to the CBC you may just learn something. The first thing you'll learn is that it attempts to be representational to ALL the taxpayers. It takes a chance on things, new things. Without new things we won't survive as a culture. Commercial radio/ TV wouldn't touch a fraction of the wonderful things discovered and distributed by the CBC. Why? Because of money. There is so much more to life, no?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"Music variety is quite limited (boring) in St. John's. Not like TO or Montreal." Actually, CBC 1 and 2 have an eclectic variety of musical genres played each day............that is when the CBC Radio is on its regular schedule here in NL. I want my CBC Radio and TV back!!!!!!!!

AS, MacNutt reality® ??? the Great MacNutt® ??? the MacNutt Way® ???


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

da_jonesy said:


> This is conservative alarmist nonsense... Privatization, a good thing? Can you give me an example as to where... once, even once, that privatization worked out to the public good.


15 years ago, whenever I went to a liquor store run by the government of Alberta, I waited in line to make a purchase. At Christmas time and on long weekends they were a zoo.

Then the government privatized liquor stores. Instead of one big busy store, I can now choose from 16 different liquor outlets here and be in and out in minutes. Not only did it improve service, the competition cut prices and created far more jobs and ownership possibilities for small business people than ever before.

Certainly not a bad thing and it did the public in Alberta good. While there are examples that do not work, your broad blanket statement falls short of the truth.


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## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

MacNutt said:


> Yep...those Madrid train bombings just _HAPPENED_ to coincide with the Spanish elections. And Spain just _HAPPENED_ to have supported the invasion of Iraq. And the Spanish government that was suddenly and unexpectedly defeated by the shock of these terrorist bombings just _HAPPENED_ to be fully backing George W. Bush....
> 
> And the incoming left of center Spanish government that was elected right after the madrid bombings, in what everone said was a "surprising upset", just _HAPPENED_ to quickly distance themselves from their predecessors position on Iraq and the war on terror.
> 
> All of this is simply coincidence. A whole bunch of simple coincidences. They mean nothing! Especially when taken in their correct order.


WeLL MacNutt, yOu are fINally rigHT AboUt soMEthiNg.


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## bryanc (Jan 16, 2004)

*Privatization*



SINC said:


> ...the government privatized liquor stores. Instead of one big busy store, I can now choose from 16 different liquor outlets here and be in and out in minutes.


Well, I'm inclined to agree with you on this one, but I don't think the privatization of liquor stores has been entirely a 'good thing' for the people of Alberta.

Firstly, the diversity of products carried by most stores is much less than what the government-run stores used to carry (fine if all you want is cheap wine or beer). There are speciality shops that carry (or will order) harder to find items, so I won't insist on this point.

More importantly, alcohol is a dangerous drug. I have no issue with it's legality or consumption by adults, but I'm happy to see it's sale taxed and carefully controlled by the government. That's exactly how I think other drugs should be handled. I'm not sure privatizing the drug dealers is in the long term best interest of society.

But as I said to begin with, on the whole, I think privatization of liquor stores has been an improvement over the previous situation.

However, I think this is an exception. Privatization and deregulation, in my experience, has led to massive increases in prices and reduction of services, in the interest of generating larger profits. The exceptions (and I think the liquor store is an example) is when you can count on significant competition.

The free market is a powerful force, but it relies on active competition. When there are only a few players (because, for example, it requires massive capital investments to participate, e.g. in broadcasting, providing electrical power, etc.) this competition tends to be ineffective, and deregulation/privatization drives prices up. For example, when I lived in Seattle, power was deregulated, and our electrical bill promptly went up 500%. In contrast, where there are many companies able to compete in the market place, the free market generates efficiency and prices drop.

So privatization/deregulation is not a panacea. It is appropriate and desirable in some circumstances, and disastrous in others.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Dr.G. said:


> AS, MacNutt reality® ??? the Great MacNutt® ??? the MacNutt Way® ???


All snake-oil salesmen have their brand.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

bryanc said:


> But as I said to begin with, on the whole, I think privatization of liquor stores has been an improvement over the previous situation.
> 
> So privatization/deregulation is not a panacea. It is appropriate and desirable in some circumstances, and disastrous in others.


Couldn't agree with you more. As for MacDoc's thread on the subject, the CCPA and Parkland Institute have their own built in bias, so it too is simply an opinion, not unlike our own.


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## KreenysMac (Aug 23, 2005)

I am in CBC withdrawl ... CTV does not, in any way possible, replace the CBC. Though the "best of CBC" on CBC RadioOne is _okay_ ... they had a "50 tracks" episode, the 80's episode, on yesterday evening in Winnipeg ... Message to CBC execs -- please settle this thing soon, the CBC is what's keeping me sane!


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

One never misses what one never watches.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

KreenysMac, I feel your pain. I miss CBC1 radio more than anything else. My wife and I have a grand collection of classical music, which we can play on a CD player. However, the local perspective on events in this area is difficult, especially with an election here in St.John's on the 25th of Sept. As well, with StarChoice, I am (or was) able to get local news from other provinces and cities in Canada.

Bring back my CBC!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> so it too is simply an opinion, not unlike our own.


No it's based on factual statistics not "opinion".
"Facts" seems strangely absent in the NeoCon universe.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Why not call it what it really is, "their" interpretation of supposed "facts".


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

SINC said:


> One never misses what one never watches.


The how can one ever be expected to hold any sort of opinion of what one has no clue about?

Never is a long time.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

« MannyP Design » said:


> Never is a long time.


It's even longer if you watch it on CBC!


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

SINC, perhaps some Albertans are quietly (subconsciously?) snipping all of the threads of Federalism in preparation for secession from Canada? The odd thing, is that Quebec is very proud of the SRC and if they ever did separate, it would live on as the national Quebec station. When will Alberta launch a provincial media company from the ashes of the Hollinger empire? Will you just pipe in FoxNews or buy out ABC (Alberta Broadcasting Company)? 

http://www.secession.net/


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

used to be jwoodget said:


> SINC, perhaps some Albertans are quietly (subconsciously?) snipping all of the threads of Federalism in preparation for secession from Canada? The odd thing, is that Quebec is very proud of the SRC and if they ever did separate, it would live on as the national Quebec station. When will Alberta launch a provincial media company from the ashes of the Hollinger empire? Will you just pipe in FoxNews or buy out ABC (Alberta Broadcasting Company)?
> 
> http://www.secession.net/


Sorry UTBJ, but we're way ahead of you on this one, Canada's OLDEST public broadcaster:

http://www.ckua.org/


And it comes with TV too:

http://www.accesstv.ca/


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

America's Funniest Videos and Family Feud? C'mon, at least the CBC doesn't subject us to that drivel....  I'm sure the radio broadcasts are good though.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Look around the site. Other programming is very strong thanks to the many institutions of learning who participate. Why they feature the "pap" on the lead page is beyond me.


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## SoyMac (Apr 16, 2005)

My contractor listens to the Corp. all day long as he's working and said he'd go crazy/suffer from brain atrophy if he could only listen to commercial radio.

We listen to Stuart Maclean and Madly Off In All Directions as a Sunday brunch ritual. Amazing how comedy seems so able to define Canadianism. I think that if someone wanted to learn the difference between Americans and Canadians, they would just have to listen to a couple of hours of Madly Off In All Directions.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

There is no doubt there does exist some good programming on state-run TV and radio. The CBC and the BBC have given us some brilliant shows over the years. Here and there.

And there is also no doubt that there exists some very good programming on the rest of the dial. Which is NOT state-owned and state controlled. Personally, I await every single episode of "The Sopranos" and the new "Battlestar Galactica". I also watch Discovery Channel and TLC and History Channel almost every night.

All of those are "commercial" Television, BTW...

But I like the American PBS as well. I would watch NOVA over almost anything else in any time slot. Have done for about two decades.

I think the biggest difference that I note on a personal level is that I DON'T have to divert any of my hard earned tax dollars to the so called "private" or "commercial" channels.

And, despite what some may have claimed here, the "commercial" or "private" media outlets do not seem to be so dominated by such a single political mindset. (they are all over the map, really)

Whereas state-run media outlets most definitely ARE devoted to a single political mindset.... 

They are beholden to the political party that pays their bills and who appoints all of their top people. And it SHOWS!   

There is a place for both, in our modern world. We SHOULD have a choice to watch either. I'm all for it. Diversity is best for all of us.

But it scares me a bit when so many people here at ehmac seem to be saying that "only the state-run media is valid...and all others are NOT!"

Forgive me if I say that I've heard this sort of single minded sentiment before, from certain people.

It was when I lived in the third world. And it freaks me out a bit to think that some rather bright people are spouting this sort of brain-dead nonsense here at ehmac right now!

Lemme TELL ya!


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## sketch (Sep 10, 2004)

SoyMac said:


> I think that if someone wanted to learn the difference between Americans and Canadians, they would just have to listen to a couple of hours of Madly Off In All Directions.


And the Winnipeg Comedy Festival. Have you heard the show all about what makes us different from the US? It was hilarious!


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## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

MacNutt said:


> I also watch Discovery Channel and TLC and History Channel almost every night.


Discovery Channel is cool. Interesting science can be found there.

TLC, on the other hand, is rubbish. If there is a pseudo-scientific viewpoint to be found, TLC will put it on the air. If I want to "learn" about alien abductions, the Da Vinci Code, modern-day druids, and hauntings, I'll hit the new age section of the book store.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

lpkmckenna said:


> f I want to "learn" about alien abductions, the Da Vinci Code, modern-day druids, and hauntings, I'll hit the new age section of the book store.


Or the fiction section....


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

MacNutt said:


> And, despite what some may have claimed here, the "commercial" or "private" media outlets do not seem to be so dominated by such a single political mindset. (they are all over the map, really)
> 
> Whereas state-run media outlets most definitely ARE devoted to a single political mindset....
> 
> ...


I don't see people saying that the only news shoould be CBC news. Choice is good. However, the contention that the CBC is inherently biased is plain garbage. It's only biased if you have an unbalanced point of view (i.e. only want to hear one side of any argument). The CBC dwelled on the Gomery Commission. It's coverage was excellent. It didn't editorialize but reported the facts. It is not the job of the CBC (or any other media outlet) to be judge, jury and executioner. That is Gomery's job. The media's job is to report the facts.

There is no need to insult the majority of members (at least those who clicked on the poll) by telling them they are brain-dead either. Great persuasive technique! Such insults reflect your total lack of reasoned opinion.


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

I've been away for a few days and just got caught up with this thread. 
My quick views are;
I very much miss my CBC, and I want the quality programing back as quickly as possible,
and I hold the Management of the CBC at fault for the disruption of CBC services as they Locked Out The Staff,
and I haven't had time to "look into" the positions of the parties. 



SINC said:


> I suppose you hold the union not responsible in any way?
> 
> In my experience it takes at least two parties to have a dispute. I have no idea of the extent and the true reasons for this dispute. Only the major head line reason. "Contact Employees"
> 
> ...


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

What I find strange is that they have been playing "The best of....." shows, while the actual person is out on the picketline. Having walked a picket line for two weeks in cold, wind-driven rain and sleet, I don't envy anyone on such a line.


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## SoyMac (Apr 16, 2005)

Dr.G. said:


> What I find strange is that they have been playing "The best of....." shows, while the actual person is out on the picketline. Having walked a picket line for two weeks in cold, wind-driven rain and sleet, I don't envy anyone on such a line.


Yeah, Dr.G.. Why is it that we poor, working-class slobs always seem to be out on the line in _Winter_ weather?! 
At least here in Canada.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

SoyMac, while I don't consider myself a "working-class slob", I did stay on the line for some difficult weather. Actually, it helped our cause, in that people realized that we must be either dedicated or crazy to have been out in that sort of weather. Luckily, my union called the administration's bluff, and agreed to a reduction in the workforce of over 25%, so long as the administration opened up the books to show the public where the taxpayer's money was going and why it needed to let one out of every four profs go, along with how they intended to offer degree programs in the expected (by students) four to five years. The administration declined, and we were able to get about half of what the public school teachers received. I am just now earning more than many of my grad students who I first taught 28 years ago, although many of them are now retiring on full pensions. This is one reason why Memorial has about the lowest tuition in the country. 

Still, it is a good university in which to teach, and we have a very diverse student body due to the influx of students from other provinces/countries due to the low tuition (relatively speaking, of course).


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

BigDL said:


> I've been away for a few days and just got caught up with this thread.
> My quick views are;
> I very much miss my CBC, and I want the quality programing back as quickly as possible,
> and I hold the Management of the CBC at fault for the disruption of CBC services as they Locked Out The Staff,
> ...


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

*If you look closely you will see the Quote is BigDL's sorry for mixup*

If you look at the quote below the last quote is mine. Not easy to see and the SYNC Quote in close proximity was not intentionally placed there I will assure you. 

I hereby assure everyone those were the words and views of BigDL and not of SYNC. I apologized too anyone and especially to SYNC for any confusion with regard to the quotes and to whom they were attributed. 

In explanation; and as I indicated, I was on the road for two days and when I returned to my mac, the thread moved on. To capture multiple quotes (some pages back) I cut and pasted Quoted posts into AppleWorks to write my response. 

An "end of quote" must have seperated from the quote. I have failed at assembling my post. I am a technotard. 

Again I am truly sorry to you SYNC for the confusion and any upset my poor posting performance caused you and et al for any confusion and concern that SYNC had a sudden loss of his wonderful writing skills. 

I trust this clears up any confusion with regard to whose views belong to whom. 




SINC said:


> BigDL said:
> 
> 
> > I've been away for a few days and just got caught up with this thread.
> ...


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

BigDL said:


> Again I am truly sorry to you SYNC for the confusion and any upset my poor posting performance caused you and et al for any confusion and concern that SYNC had a sudden loss of his wonderful writing skills.
> 
> I trust this clears up any confusion with regard to whose views belong to whom.
> 
> ...


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## fellfromtree (May 18, 2005)

*Are arts and culture the exclusive playthings of the left? It's interesting how they are either overlooked, thought of as elitist or distrusted by our friends right of center.* 
This is a great comment from an earlier post. I also am baffled by the element that is using terms like 'brainwashing'. What is it that the naysayers viewpoint wants from a national voice? From the comments so far, it seems like they want an agenda that dictates or restricts opinion (that is what i hear on commercial radio- if you don'y have the viewpoint of the host, you are restricted/ridiculed/citt-off). What is it that the detractors would want from a national broadcaster? Just a profit? Do people see no value in anything that can't be measured by dollars? Canada needs a cultural voice. As an Central Ontarian, where else can i tune in to hear my fellow Canadians from Goose Bay, Brandon, and Regina?

I listen to a lot of radio, mostly talk/information, including sports, probably way off the scale in terms of the average weekly listener habits. CBC radio 1 is my beacon, but i also listen to commercial radio in some dose daily. Commercial radio is brain candy. It is titillation and its agenda is keep you tuned through the commercials, the most effective technique being as a provacateur. There is little real discourse on commercial radio, and little meaningful exploration of any subject. Commercial radio is designed to be short segments that incite emotion, enough to get the listener to stick around for the next dose of titillation. So much time on commercial radio is spent re-setting the topic and pre-selling the topic, that there is little actual content. Commercial radio is infotainment.

When I want a quick fix of infotainment, I connect to commercial radio. But there is no way commercial radio can fill the role of a national voice or act as a conduit for public discourse or national discourse.

My local commercial dinosaur rock station that plays the same 30-40 year old songs over and over is always telling how no-one plays BTO like they do, and how cool I am to be listening to them, but it is the CBC that gave Randy Bachman a radio show that gives you an insight into the last 60 years of music like no other show has that I've ever heard, in an entertaining fashion, except maybe for Jeff Healey's radio show about the early days of jazz, "My Kind Of Jazz'... which was also a cbc production.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

fellfromtree said:


> *Are arts and culture the exclusive playthings of the left? It's interesting how they are either overlooked, thought of as elitist or distrusted by our friends right of center.*


We are all different and I for one am no fan of the arts or culture other than music. Exclusive, elitist, snobbery. Call it whatever.

Give me friends, conversation, sports and toss in camping, hiking, fishing, and games with the family, a few good TV programs on Discovery or National Geographic or PBS and you have everything I ever want to do.

Support bacteria. It's the only culture many Canadians have.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

SINC said:


> We are all different and I for one am no fan of the arts or culture other than music. Exclusive, elitist, snobbery. Call it whatever.


Sinc, this is rather amusing and explains so much....
I have the feeling that because you don't speak the "language", your xenophobic tendencies are in full bloom. 
I don't fully understand gymnastics, but it would not stop me from learning about it.... and even appreciating it.
It's not about being a "fan" - that's really an uneducated statement....it's not monster truck rally night or wrasting...





SINC said:


> Give me friends, conversation, sports and toss in camping, hiking, fishing, and games with the family, a few good TV programs on Discovery or National Geographic or PBS and you have everything I ever want to do.


Glad you found your niche. Some of us need more or have different perspectives. 




SINC said:


> Support bacteria. It's the only culture many Canadians have.


Maybe in your neck of the woods.....


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ArtistSeries said:


> Sinc, this is rather amusing and explains so much....
> I have the feeling that because you don't speak the "language", your xenophobic tendencies are in full bloom.
> I don't fully understand gymnastics, but it would not stop me from learning about it.... and even appreciating it.
> It's not about being a "fan" - that's really an uneducated statement....it's not monster truck rally night or wrasting...


Not uneducated by any means AS.

Over the years I have been dragged kicking and screaming to opera, symphony, drama, hell even little theatre and school plays and concerts.

To put it bluntly, they all were not to my taste and I refused to ever go again about 10 years back.

You see, I happen to know EXACTLY what I am missing, thank God.

Each to his own. If it turns your crank, go for it! 

I do not criticize anyone who wants to partake of the arts, nor should they be critical of me for not enjoying any part of it.


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

I have to say a big hello to you fellfromtree, I must say obviously you landed on your feet. 

A very thoughtful and insightful post.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

SINC said:


> Not uneducated by any means AS.
> 
> Over the years I have been dragged kicking and screaming to opera, symphony, drama, hell even little theatre and school plays and concerts.


SINC, never meant to say you were uneducated. I respect what you have done in your career. Your posting don't come off as uneducated (maybe misinformed - sorry could not resist).

But saying you went somewhere "kicking and screaming" sounds like you had a preconceived notion and a closed mind. How can you enjoy something if you already hate it?






SINC said:


> To put it bluntly, they all were not to my taste and I refused to ever go again about 10 years back.





SINC said:


> You see, I happen to know EXACTLY what I am missing, thank God.


Does not sound like it to be honest...



SINC said:


> Each to his own. If it turns your crank, go for it!
> 
> I do not criticize anyone who wants to partake of the arts, nor should they be critical of me for not enjoying any part of it.


Swimming is a bath full of jello and goldfish turns my crank - so is it Art?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ArtistSeries said:


> Swimming is a bath full of jello and goldfish turns my crank - so is it Art?


If that is what YOU believe, sure. I just might have a differing opinion, but I will keep that to myself.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Just read a newspaper article that points out...to ALL of us, quite clearly...that the sainted CBC is "only watched by about 5% of Canadians on a regular basis".  

Ummm...I'm wondering here just HOW EXACTLY this state-run, state-controlled broadcaster...that is regularly avoided by about 95% of ALL Canadians on a daily basis...can POSSIBLY be the "thing that is holding us ALL TOGETHER"(???!?)"

Anyone from the "cult" care to try and explain THIS one away?

I'm listening. Honest.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

MacNutt said:


> Just read a newspaper article that points out...to ALL of us, quite clearly...that the sainted CBC is "only watched by about 5% of Canadians on a regular basis".


Source please, lest you prefer we believe these are little fantasy novel you publish yourself...



MacNutt said:


> I'm listening. Honest.


Translation = I don't really care what you have to say, so long as I can vent here and stir up garbage in the hopes to divert any real dialogue. I'm the great sage from SSI, I must be obeyed! Hey, why are the plebes walking away.....


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ArtistSeries said:


> Source please, lest you prefer we believe these are little fantasy novel you publish yourself...


Although these figures are from 2002, they would seem to support Gerry's observation for CBC TV:

http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/publications/reports/PolicyMonitoring/2002/bpmr2002.htm#T1

While conventional private networks and specialty channels find favour with about 53% of Canadians, CBC TV is slowly dying and now has fallen to less than 7% of Canadians bothering to watch it.


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## talonracer (Dec 30, 2003)

The CBC...

Is killing my CFL games! ARGH! It's terrible! I ended up turning the game off and listening online.

At least they're playing "best of" the Vinyl Cafe..

And Empire Strikes Back is on CBC telly tonight! That's better than a month of Peter Mansbridge! (Oh Rick Mercer, you've forever corrupted that name!)


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## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

Saw this on Slashdot: http://www.cbcunplugged.com/


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## talonracer (Dec 30, 2003)

Wow, that kitten on that page is SO cute! If I lived in the lower mainland I'd adopt it.

Cool t-shirts on there as well =] Probably won't be long before they're shut down for infringement though.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

*This pretty much sums it up for the MAJORITY of Canadians:*

CBC lockout? Big deal.

By PETER WORTHINGTON

The major league baseball strike of 1994 severely damaged the game, and fan support never fully recovered.

Last year's NHL lockout disappointed fans, who quickly transferred interest to other sports.

This year's CBC lockout has ... well, has hardly been noticed, barely makes breaking news, and isn't missed by the majority of Canadians.

So far, what the lockout has done is proved, or confirmed, that the CBC is grotesquely out of touch with Canadians. Or, to put it as the CBC might prefer, the lockout proves how out of touch most Canadians are with the CBC.

Despite its depiction of itself as Canada's national broadcaster, the CBC's agenda is not the agenda of most Canadians. Never has been, doesn't want to be. The CBC is not accountable to the public.

Of course, some sulk over the temporary loss of regular CBC broadcasts. Andrea Stewart seems one. In her letter to the National Post she describes herself as: "I'm not 'left-wing,' but a lifelong listener to CBC radio who enjoys unbiased, informative and commercial-free radio."

Well, Ms. Stewart may enjoy "unbiased, informative" radio, but she sure doesn't get it on the CBC.

Commercial-free, yes, but CBC biases are acute, and the information it broadcasts is selective, to say the least.

CBC's anti-Americanism is legendary.

Even Pierre Trudeau complained when he was PM that the CBC was an incubator and advocate for separatism in Quebec.

The CBC is notoriously anti-military -- except when our soldiers are accidentally killed by American bombs.

The CBC ignores our troops in the Balkans and Afghanistan, and rejects "unbiased" documentaries that record the work they do.

Remember The Valour and the Horror that slagged our side in World War II, and the documentary that depicted World War I air ace Billy Bishop as a lying phony?

In Kosovo, the CBC ran a documentary showing a Kosovo woman who claimed her sister was raped and murdered so she became a fighter.

This turned out to be false, but the CBC defended it because "it could have been true."

The CBC's English-language service rarely exceeds 10% of the viewing audience, and has been plunging ever since the lockout.

While Canadians may support the "idea" of the CBC in opinion polls, most of those who echo support don't watch CBC programs -- or don't miss it when they can't get it.

Given a choice, most Canadians prefer what's offered on commercial channels -- witness CTV outdrawing CBC-TV news, and private radio leaving CBC Radio in its wake.

The CBC cannot sustain itself without public financing. Its appeal is to a narrow and noisy group of elitists who squawk whenever CBC funding is cut.

Its budget tops $1 billion a year, plus Telefilm money it corrals.

Many of us would support the CBC if it truly lived up to its mandate to provide Canadians with quality programming that commercial channels ignore.

And not just Canadian-made stuff (which most Canadians shun), but Masterpiece Theatre, foreign programs, opera, symphonies, talk programs.

It's outrageous that the CBC competes with private networks to cover NHL hockey and the Olympics -- driving up the costs.

The CBC should be forbidden from competing with the private sector. It should concentrate on quality programs the private sector ignores. If the private sector wants it -- good, spend on other stuff.

As for news bias, in the recent Iraq war, the CBC withdrew its staff from Baghdad when bombing began, and wouldn't allow reporters to be embedded with attacking troops for fear they'd be susceptible to military "spin."

What nonsense.

Instead, the CBC used American footage of the war and added its own "spin" as to what was happening.

Not only cowardly, that's dishonest journalism.

Stay off the air CBC, Canada is better off without you.


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

> This year's CBC lockout has ... well, has hardly been noticed, barely makes breaking news, and isn't missed by the majority of Canadians.
> 
> So far, what the lockout has done is proved, or confirmed, that the CBC is grotesquely out of touch with Canadians. Or, to put it as the CBC might prefer, the lockout proves how out of touch most Canadians are with the CBC.
> 
> Despite its depiction of itself as Canada's national broadcaster, the CBC's agenda is not the agenda of most Canadians. Never has been, doesn't want to be. The CBC is not accountable to the public.


More right wing hyperbole. The school of: if you write it, they'll believe it. Be it a microcosm, but the ehMac poll shows something different.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

You mean the majority of the voices in your head. Oddly enough, SINC, you're a minority on this board. Perhaps the CBC needs to start using bikini-girls to get your interest?


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## ColBalt (May 16, 2005)

I feel the CBC id the most unbiased in their journalism. They don't fill alot of time with any happy-go-Lucky-feel-Good cr*p. just the new.
Except for lately. The BBC News is being aired during the (what is it?) strike.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

ColBalt, I am in total agreement with you re the nonsense of the "happy" and "feel good" news team stations. I want the news, and I dearly miss the CBC TV and radio programs, especially dealing with the news. 

Bring back the CBC!!!!!!!


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

I get the feeling that these so called commercial "news" programs are akin to informercials and in part of these "feel-good" stories rating boosters. I'm not asking for US type coverage (violence and sensationalism) , the CBC did a good job or reporter the news, like regurgitating press releases.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

« MannyP Design » said:


> You mean the majority of the voices in your head. Oddly enough, SINC, you're a minority on this board. Perhaps the CBC needs to start using bikini-girls to get your interest?


What you overlook Manny, is the fact that while I may be a minority on this board, I am with the majority of Canadians. BBM ratings continue to show that less than 10% of Canadians watch or support the CBC.

Now you will tell me that 90% plus of Canadians are wrong, I suppose?


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

SINC said:


> What you overlook Manny, is the fact that while I may be a minority on this board, I am with the majority of Canadians. BBM ratings continue to show that less than 10% of Canadians watch or support the CBC.
> 
> Now you will tell me that 90% plus of Canadians are wrong, I suppose?


What you overlook is that you have no *real* source to your belief. That's a fact. You view the audience numbers as a matter of people not caring... oops.

The fact that a small sampling of people on this board show a majority proves your source to be fallable.

You also neglect to mention that CBC's ratings are the best ever in it's history and continue a trend in growth. Oops.

Also, over 83% of statistics are made up on the spot.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Manny, even if only 10% of the population watches the CBC, it is still something we need to preserve and protect. It is one way to unify us as a country and to keep us distinct from the US. The biggest battle that once raged in my household was over what CBC radio station the kitchen radio would be dialed to -- CBC 1 or 2. We compromised, with CBC 1 in the morning and afternoon, and CBC 2 in the evening. 1030PM here in St.John's will ALWAYS find my wife and I watching an hour of CBC news together.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

« MannyP Design » said:


> Also, over 83% of statistics are made up on the spot.


LOL
On ehmac it's 85%....


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"On ehmac it's 85%....".......... + or - 3.3726% 87.936 times out of 100, statistically speaking, due to the overabundance of Mac users on this website.


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

SINC said:


> What you overlook Manny, is the fact that while I may be a minority on this board, I am with the majority of Canadians. BBM ratings continue to show that less than 10% of Canadians watch or support the CBC.
> 
> Now you will tell me that 90% plus of Canadians are wrong, I suppose?




SYNC I doubt., by his comments, Peter Worthington listens to CBC Radio anymore than you do.

The diversity of entertainment and view points on CBC Radio weekly is not limited and biased.

CBC information radio is much more than the news.

I fear many Maritimers are in withdrawal after losing the morning shows and noon broadcasts. I dear say Weekends are miserable with the loss of Stan Carew, Deputy Doug, BobUnderscoreBower and Duke the Studio Stallion. 

Weekend mornings this is a show I think you may like SYNC. I have no problem recommending it to you. Of course you would have to rise at three AM (Mountain time) Saturday and Sunday mornings and tune your computer to CBC1 Halifax using windows media player to hear the show. Oh yeah you would have wait until the lock out is over, I fear you may never get to enjoy this wonderful program, I fear even more I may not either!


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

BigDL, I have to admit that the loss of the 905-930AM local slot to The Current was actually a gain for me. However, we have a strong afternoon and early evening local CBC1 station here in NL, and I would not want any more local time lost.


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

Dr.G. said:


> BigDL, I have to admit that the loss of the 905-930AM local slot to The Current was actually a gain for me. However, we have a strong afternoon and early evening local CBC1 station here in NL, and I would not want any more local time lost.


Dr. G., I am fortunate I still have our 6:10 to 8:37AM local mourning broadcast. The production and on air CBC staff in Moncton are in the same Union as the workers in Quebec. These employees were not locked out. 

BTW, the Monday that was the first day of the CBC lock out, a new host started her first "solo" day on air. I think she is do a very credible job give the circumstances. 

I still have this show I will take my blessing where I can.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

BigDL, CBC 1 from St.John's goes from 6AM until 905AM. Then, the current comes on, and local programming does not resume until 1235PM, after the CBC national news.  This is on until 230PM and the national time signal. Local radio returns at 435PM until the 630PM CBC national news.


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

Dr.G. said:


> BigDL, CBC 1 from St.John's goes from 6AM until 905AM. Then, the current comes on, and local programming does not resume until 1235PM, after the CBC national news. This is on until 230PM and the national time signal. Local radio returns at 435PM until the 630PM CBC national news.


Dr. G. the times I gave are the in Atlantic time zone and are the equivalent with the half our difference as Newfounland time. However at 6AM there is the national network newsfeed and is followed by music filler until 6:12 AM at every "top of the hour" the National feed takes over for 12 minutes. The current always started after the local/regional news at 8:37 AM.

As I stated early in this thread I will not listen to Network feeds. I instead listen to commercial radio and television ugggh! 

I do have a small break somedays with www.cbcunplugged.com when the locked out workers produce some excellent podcats. 

I WANT MY CBC BACK


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

« MannyP Design » said:


> You also neglect to mention that CBC's ratings are the best ever in it's history and continue a trend in growth. Oops.


Oh really?

"As taxpayers poured nearly $10 billion into the CBC over the past 10 years, the government broadcaster's audience share in the English language has declined steadily to under six per cent."

Read it and weep here!


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

BigDL, subtract 1/2 an hour from my times to get Atlantic time. I am sitting at the mid-point of a time zone, and thus, we have our own time zone........albeit a half a zone.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

SINC said:


> Oh really?
> 
> "As taxpayers poured nearly $10 billion into the CBC over the past 10 years, the government broadcaster's audience share in the English language has declined steadily to under six per cent."
> 
> Read it and weep here!


You link is over a year old. Oops!


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sinc, it is worth the money. On whatever station might you get the Remembrance Day ceremonies broadcast live from each major city in Canada?


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## bryanc (Jan 16, 2004)

I'm actually pleasantly surprised that 10% of Canadians regularly listen to/watch the CBC. That's a lot of people.

I can't think of any other media that serves such a broad cross-section of the Canadian public. It may be true that a larger proportion of Canadians watch American television news and entertainment, but CBC isn't supposed to be competing with that, just providing an alternative for those who want it.

CBC is like Apple computers. Better for many reasons, but not appreciated by the majority (sometimes for the same reasons). But if it reaches 10% of Canadians, I think that's a success. I'll also bet that the 10% of Canadians that listen to CBC are a disproportionately influential 10% (university professors, politically active people, community leaders, teachers, etc.). So the impact CBC has on our national identity is likely quite significant.

I hope they settle soon. I miss CBC  

Cheers


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

« MannyP Design » said:


> You link is over a year old. Oops!


The latest available figures, but it does sets the 10 year trend pretty consistently, doesn't it?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

bryanc, a great analogy between Apple computers and the CBC. I want quality and I want my CBC!!!


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

bryanc said:


> But if it reaches 10% of Canadians, I think that's a success.


Last figure 6% and falling. Nearly half of the 10% gone.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Dr.G. said:


> Sinc, it is worth the money. On whatever station might you get the Remembrance Day ceremonies broadcast live from each major city in Canada?


Dr. G., while we agree on many issues, this is not one of them. To me it is NOT worth the money. While I applaud the Remembrance Day coverage, this too could be done by commercial TV at far less cost to taxpayers, ie: zero.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

SINC said:


> The latest available figures, but it does sets the 10 year trend pretty consistently, doesn't it?


Not really, no.


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## ErnstNL (Apr 12, 2003)

Sinc, I think you brought up a valid point. 
Commercial broadcasters _could_ bring us the Remembrance Day events at zero cost. 
If they had advertisers, i.e. commercials, to pay for the costs, correct? 
I don't think that commercial broadcasters would bother, don't you?
It's not really their cup of tea. 
It would interfere with Oprah and Days. 

The CBC is worth every penny.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

No not at - in that 10 year period the availability of hundreds of channels has fragmented ALL media.
You are also lumping CBC as a whole with TV specifically which is ludicrous. CBC Radio has a far greater penetration

Media fragmentation affects ALL of those engaged in it and has been going on for years. At one time there were three BROADCASTERS and a program could get upwards of 60% or more of viewers.
Those days are long long gone.

With convergence and hundreds of sources even measuring impact is increasingly suspect.



> One day this January I sat in a Greenwich Village workroom with Bob Luff, the chief technology officer at Nielsen, as he pulled out gadget after gadget to show me what he's up against. Luff seemed to view the modern American home as a digital zoo where the lion is about to lie down with the lamb: radio is going on the Web, TV is going on cellphones, the Web is going on TV and everything, it seems, is moving to video-on-demand (V.O.D.) and (quite possibly) the iPod and the PlayStation Portable. ''Television and media,'' Luff said over the noise of five sets tuned to five different channels, ''will change more in the next 3 or 5 years than it's changed in the past 50.''


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/10/m...=e9248309f26f3432&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland

I can ( and do ) watch CBC specials on demand and make use of their web sites and news information online, on CBC Radio and CBC TV,

Media has been tending to concentrate - the barriers to that are breaking down and commercial channel news organization are too often just "entertainers". The Fourth estate is far too important to be put in the sole clutches of corporate interests.

I'll keep the CBC thanks.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

MacDoc said:


> No not at - in that 10 year period the availability of hundreds of channels has fragmented ALL media.


SHHH! You gave it away. I was hoping SINC could figure it out for himself... 

And you're correct about CBC Radio -- they're kicking ace in Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Ottawa, (to mention a few) where they've been showing a growing audience every year (I believe they're at 17 percent -- not bad for a city with saturated radio waves), not to mention they have the #1 radio show during the morning drive.

But I guess that doesn't count.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Guess which city has the highest rated CBC local news hour in the county (on a per capita basis)? Yes, St. John's, NL. However, in the "wisdom" of the brass at CBC, our local news was cut to only a half hour. And they wondered why their ratings dropped.

For shame!!!!!! Bring back our CBC!!!!!!!


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

Dr.G. said:


> BigDL, subtract 1/2 an hour from my times to get Atlantic time. I am sitting at the mid-point of a time zone, and thus, we have our own time zone........albeit a half a zone.


Yes I know I capitilised the Newfoudland but not the time so I will correct that now Time or if you will Newfoundland Daylight Savings Time  

The first half hour the "Local" morning radio show aired in Moncton 5:30 to 6 AM ADST called Day Breaks that would correspond with 6 AM NDST was always a Maritime regional feed from Halifax and is now gone.

I trust this will clear up any confusion.


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

SINC said:


> Oh really?
> 
> "As taxpayers poured nearly $10 billion into the CBC over the past 10 years, the government broadcaster's audience share in the English language has declined steadily to under six per cent."
> QUOTE]
> ...


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"Having said that look at the popularity of the National Iquirier should this be the standard for judging newspapers?" Good point, BigDL.


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## gwillikers (Jun 19, 2003)

Time for another one of my silly analogies...
We each voluntarily give thousands upon thousands of dollars to an American company with half the market share of the CBC. I realize I'm comparing Canadian numbers with worldwide numbers, but it makes market share seem less significant to me.


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## MacGuiver (Sep 6, 2002)

Hi everyone,

Not sure if this poll has been sited in this thread but here is what the polls say about the CBC lockout and its impact on Canadians.

"Ten per cent of respondents to the Decima survey said the labour dispute at the public broadcaster is "a major inconvenience," while 27 per cent called it "a minor inconvenience."
Sixty-one per cent reported no impact at all.
Slightly more than 1,000 Canadians were surveyed by phone Aug. 18-21 -- just after the lockout began Aug. 15 during the drowsy height of summer."

"Those who said they were most inconvenienced by the lockout tended to be Liberal and NDP voters or older people, the poll found. Most other respondents said they had not been affected."


Cheers
MacGuiver


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> "Those who said they were most inconvenienced by the lockout tended to be Liberal and NDP voters or older people, the poll found


.....oh you mean about 70% of the population in other words.

The "most of the others" would be the typical regressives.


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## MacGuiver (Sep 6, 2002)

MacDoc said:


> The "most of the others" would be the typical regressives.


MacDoc

The "most of the others" you so eloquently described as "typical regressives" would be 61% of the country. Likely more you'd be tarring as "typical regressives" because probably half the 27% of people that sighted a "minor inconvenience" missed watching reruns of Coronation Street and Degrassi High. 

I guess that puts you firmly in the 10% of left leaning Canadians that can't sleep at night without the CBC.

I'll gladly ad my name to the typical regressive 61% of Canadians that could live without it.

Cheers
MacGuiver


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Math challenged?? - last time I checked NDP and Liberal constituted 60% plus.
Typical NeoCon wishful thinking. Champagne on the plane n'all

You're a shrinking minority - deal with it.

•••••



> Tuesday, August 30, 2005 Updated at 4:25 PM EDT
> Canadian Press
> 
> *Toronto — In the first major break in the two-week-old CBC lockout, both sides will sit down at the bargaining table Wednesday.*
> ...


:clap:

Now bring back parliament and get some more work underway as well.


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## MacGuiver (Sep 6, 2002)

MacDoc said:


> Math challenged?? - last time I checked NDP and Liberal constituted 60% plus.
> Typical NeoCon wishful thinking. Champagne on the plane n'all


Sight challenged??

The survey said 61% (SIXTY-ONE PERCENT). Wipe the fog from your rose colored glasses with your tie-dye shirt and read a little closer. Yes some of your fellow Liberals could care less about the CBC.

Here are some math figures for you to help you get your mind around this.

10% Greatly affected
27% Minor inconvenience
61% No impact at all (Me and other regressives, Conservatives and Liberals alike, maybe a couple NDP but not likely)

Show me where your 70% majority is lost without the CBC?  Here on ehmac you'll find those numbers but thats a reflection of its predominantly left wing audience but no reflection of Canada as this survey shows.

Fact of the matter is you'll tune into what you relate to or connect with. With the majority of the country tuned out of the CBC, should we be spending billions of tax payer dollars to fund a Corporation that caters to the minority? 
The Majority of Canadians could care less about it. Deal with it!


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Well put, MacGuiver!

The CBC is seriously irrelevant to the vast majority of Canadian citizens. Most Canadians wouldn't even notice that it was gone.

According to the figures I've seen...about 95% of us don't watch CBC TV. And about 80% of us don't listen to CBC radio with any sort of regularity.

The leftish CBC "cultists" might bemoan it's sudden absence...but the majority of us regular Canadians wouldn't even notice that it was gone.

And the Liberal government would..suddenly...have an extra billion or so tax dollars to throw at their favorite re-election/redemption project. 

Maybe they could commission a whole BUNCH of new pro-Liberal billboards. About a billion dollars worth? Say...in Quebec? And set up some brand new major skimming/money-laundering operations, while doing this?

_NAAAAWWWW...say it isn't SO!!_

NEVER happen! Not in a million years.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

> 61% No impact at all (Me and other regressives, Conservatives and Liberals alike, maybe a couple NDP but not likely)


You assume it means 61% DON'T continue to watch/listen to CBC in spite of the strike, or never have watched/listened.



> According to the figures I've seen...about 95% of us don't watch CBC TV. And about 80% of us don't listen to CBC radio with any sort of regularity.


I'd like to see how the rest of the ~80% is broken down to other TV/Radio station audiences in comparison to CBC's share of the audience in Canada -- nobody here seems to be able (or are unwilling) to produce those figures. Remember, CBC Radio has the highest ratings in pretty much all the major cities (as I have mentioned previously).

_August 11, 2005 - CBC Radio One 99.1 continues its dominance of morning radio in Toronto. Metro Morning (weekdays, 6-8:30 a.m.) maintained its position as the No.1 morning radio show in Toronto; over the last book there as been a two point jump in market share to 12.6 per cent. Metro Morning has increased its audience by 22 per cent to reach 428,100 listeners. BBM results also indicate that more people listen to CBC News both local and network (World Report - weekdays at 6, 7 and 8 a.m.) over any other newscast in their time periods in Toronto.

CBC Radio is Toronto's top source for news and information, according to the latest BBM results released today, achieving the highest audience numbers in close to a decade with an average weekly audience of 621,200 listeners. CBC Radio has seen an increase of 13 per cent in audience across the board and has leapt to number two overall in the market.

SNIP..._


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Manny, those were most interesting figures for the GTA CBC 1 listenership. I think that is somewhat similar for St.John's.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

MacGuiver said:


> Show me where your 70% majority is lost without the CBC?  Here on ehmac you'll find those numbers but thats a reflection of its predominantly left wing audience but no reflection of Canada as this survey shows.


Exactly! :clap:


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## bryanc (Jan 16, 2004)

Does anyone else find these numbers surprising? I never would've imagined that almost 40% of Canadians listen to/watch CBC enough to notice a strike. I don't think even the NHL strike had that much impact!

In such a fragmented market, having 40% is astounding.

CBC is, apparently, far more significant to Canadians than I thought.

Cheers


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

bryanc, re your comment "CBC is, apparently, far more significant to Canadians than I thought", I feel that the CBC helps to make us distint from the US.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I'd dare say there is a ton of American listeners to CBC as well - you think the line up of the Blue states was coincidental.??? 

here's but one 


> An American's Plea to the CBC
> 
> Link Address: http://www.thetyee.ca/Views/2005/08/21/AmericanPlea
> Published: 2005-08-21 23:13:00
> ...


 :clap:

You're making this huge leap that "no impact" = don't listen or want it done away with.

I dare say you'd find few outside the neoCon ranks would like to do away with the CBC.

Do you REALLY think things have changed much since this poll which asks the relevant question about "doing a good job". 


> *Of those polled, 82 per cent said that the CBC is doing a good job, a very good job or an excellent job of fulfilling its mandate,* while 4 per cent said the CBC is doing a poor job.
> 
> "Whether it has been the punitive budget cuts to the CBC, the Milewski affair [in which the Prime Minister’s Office accused CBC reporter Terry Milewski of bias, unsuccessfully], or the threat of even greater political interference through last year’s Bill C-44 [which would have given the government authority to remove the CBC president at will], the fact is that this Prime Minister’s hostility to the CBC is not supported by the electorate," Morrison said. "I suspect it would be fair to say that it’s been a long time since most governments and most government enterprises have been able to report that only 4 percent of Canadians believed they were doing a poor job."
> 
> According to the poll, 52 per cent of those questioned picked the CBC as the most balanced in its coverage of Canada’s federal political parties, 28 per cent picked CTV and 8 per cent picked Canwest Global.


Once more wishful thinking - no impact is NOT do away with. "  same old right wing disconnect.
If it's soooooo popular an idea why isn't Harper putting in the Con platform??

Instead we have double talk which few beleive



> This is what the Conservative policy book has to say on the CBC:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nor me.

By your reasoning he should be campaigning hard to lose the CBC - he's not because unlike you - he knows the majority of Canadians by a wide margin support the CBC.

as I said - you're a minority.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

When my mother was alive, and still living in NYC, the National Public Broadcasting station there played CBC Sunday Morning each week. She loved CBC radio.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

I resent the fact that people feel the need to group CBC listeners to a particular political stance. How moronic.

The majority HAVE spoken. Get used to it.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

MannyP, I strongly agree with your comment. I don't think any group of people should be stereotyped. I am faithful to the CBC, the Globe and Mail, but I do watch US stations for news and shows, and read other print sources of information. I would resent being called a gun-hating, doxie-loving, left-wing academic, even though I do NOT like guns, I DO like doxies and I am a social-liberal (but a fiscal conservative) who teaches at a university.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Majority????......getting there 



> SES Research poll - Liberals up; Harper image in free fall
> 16/08/2005
> 
> SES Research national survey completed Monday August 8, 2005 shows the Liberals with a 14 point lead over the Conservatives.
> ...


That's a BIG undecided ......guess they haven't had the CBC to "guide them"


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Wasn't this summer the "summer of Harper", with his new image being brought forth? The new TV ads make me sea sick even before I am able to listen to their message. Harper looks so stilted and unnatural. I met him at the Calgary airport and we had a grand conversation for about 10 minutes. THAT is the Harper that should be on the ads.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Photogenic he is not Dr. G., but I am glad to hear you thought better of him in person. Too bad they can't get that part of him to the public.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sinc, the TV ads are jumping all over the place, as if one of the doxies had a doxie cam on its back. They also have a poor angle of his speaking profile. Thus, the message is lost unless you look away from the screen. In our chat, he wanted to know my views about our Conservative MP in St.John's East, Norm Doyle, what I was doing in Calgary, and what brought my wife from Calgary to St. John's. He seemed to be a quiet sort of person, and while I don't agree with all of his views, I would not be leaving the country if he became PM.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Interesting to note that yesterday, the members of the locked out union held a information meeting and a comedy production on the steps of city hall in Edmonton. The event will be shown on the internet. It featured the most visible on air personalities at CBC Edmonton.

Now for the kicker. In spite of wide publicity for over a week on TV, radio and in the papers, only 100 Edmontonians bothered to show up for the event. Just one more reflection on the level of interest and support for CBC in this area.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

We had an impromptu rally to support the CBC here in St. John's and it had at least twice that number of people, Sinc.


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

Excellent article in The Globe:



> By WAYNE LEWCHUK , ALICE DEWOLFF and ANDY KING AND MARLEA CLARKE
> 
> Friday, September 2, 2005 Updated at 12:55 AM EDT
> 
> ...


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

Interesting article from the Globe & Mail.

I'm usually very anti-union (oh, how I despise the auto unions). But in this case, I support the CBC employee union.

I used to work in radio, and maybe only half the employees where considered employees. The other half where contractors, being over-worked, with zero benefits. A lot of work was dumped on "interns" because they didn't need to be paid. The private radio industry makes TONS of money, yet they try to cut every corner. They will save every penny they can, even if it means chewing up and spitting out workers on a regular basis. And the only reason they can do it is because of the massive pool of people wanting to get work in the radio industry, willing to work for free or dirt cheap.


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## bryanc (Jan 16, 2004)

SINC said:


> Now for the kicker. In spite of wide publicity for over a week on TV, radio and in the papers, only 100 Edmontonians bothered to show up for the event. Just one more reflection on the level of interest and support for CBC in this area.


If I'd known about it, I would've gone. I'm in Edmonton and this is the first I've heard of it.

Perhaps it didn't get much coverage on CBC


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

bryanc said:


> If I'd known about it, I would've gone. I'm in Edmonton and this is the first I've heard of it.
> 
> Perhaps it didn't get much coverage on CBC


Right you are bryanc, it didn't. Since I don't watch or listen to CBC I knew it was happening!


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## fellfromtree (May 18, 2005)

Honestly, if you have not been listening to Randy Bachman's radio show Vinyl Tap, Saturdays 7:00pm est, you are really missing what CBC is about. All ages, all across the country, and unwittingly (certainly not be design, and to the surprise of Bachman it seems), unexpectedly, Randy has become a spokesman for the average Canadian music listener, as well as an insider to the music industry. Amazing show for music lovers and for Canadians.

I also must say, the 'Oreilly On Advertising' series has been one of the most informative/entertaining series on media I have ever heard. *three note whistle sound*

I am very disappointed in the CBC in terms of news during the dispute. From my POV, CBC news is an essential sevice. Over the past few weeks, there have been major world developments (middle east and USA) and the national voice has deffered to the BBC. Disgraceful!


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Heard the rerun of Vinyl Tap, and although I miss Finkleman's 45's on Saturday night, I see your point. It was interesting listening to the person in Japan talking about Vinyl Tap. Yes, the CBC programs on TV and radio help us to be who we are and to share who we are with all Canadians.


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

What a great bit of news to wake up to! 



> CBC, union reach tentative deal
> 'Back-to-work protocol' still to be discussed
> 
> 
> ...


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

FINALLY!!!!!!! One wonders if this agreement has anything to do with the NHL season starting in a couple of day??????? Very interesting. Still, I am very glad that they shall be back ASAP.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Darn! To be honest, I was enjoying CFL football with natural sound and not some know-it-all telling us what we just watched.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

i have sent an email to CBC telling them what they already now
I don't need an over priced snotty broadcaster yapping about CFL football

I also left them a voice mail.
I encourage all those that enjoyed broadcaster-less CFL games to call and leave a message.

866-306-4636

After all, it is supposed to be "the peoples' network"


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## DEWLine (Sep 24, 2005)

Hopefully, we can get back to some additional sanity and competent news coverage.

And then there's the *Mercer Report*, *This is Wonderland*, *Da Vinci's City Hall* and so on...which I can now watch with clear conscience.

Good luck getting the CFL games covered that way after ratification, though I suspect you're not going to get that luck. I suspect that we'll be likewise out of luck in getting BBC to agree to film a few episodes of *Doctor Who* over here...which will be a shame.


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

Quietly chanting: cbc, cbc, (growing in intensity) CBC, CBC, (much louder)*CBC, CBC, CBC*

Anyday now I can start with my beloved 6am news on the former CBLT channel 5 in T.O. After that I can switch over to Andy Barrie and Metro Morning. Take him right out the door and into the car. Or, if I'm working at home that day spent a blissful morning with the Corporation. 

I have to admit, I'm getting quite sick of the candy floss repetition of CityTV's 'Breakfast Television' (with it's sickeningly obvious product placement). CTV sort of makes up for it but it feels more like The View everyday...

Can't wait!


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

What's the CBC?


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

mrjimmy said:


> Quietly chanting: cbc, cbc, (growing in intensity) CBC, CBC, (much louder)*CBC, CBC, CBC*
> 
> Anyday now I can start with my beloved 6am news on the former CBLT channel 5 in T.O. After that I can switch over to Andy Barrie and Metro Morning. Take him right out the door and into the car. Or, if I'm working at home that day spent a blissful morning with the Corporation.
> 
> ...


Right on! I can barely stand watching more than 2 minutes of the mindless drivel shoveled out as local news by the media outlets such as Pulse24. 

You never know what you've been missing until it's gone!


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

Commercial news has proven itself to be just that, commercial. 



> You never know what you've been missing until it's gone!


I believe now that the lockout has had a positive effect. It forced many of us to watch commercial news and it cemented even more the need for the CBC. If this (commercial news) is what we would be striving towards by getting rid of the CBC you can have it. Mindless repetition and drivel all wrapped up in insideous embedded advertising. I believe it only exists for the advertising.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

mrjimmy said:


> Commercial news has proven itself to be just that, commercial.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe now that the lockout has had a positive effect. It forced many of us to watch commercial news and it cemented even more the need for the CBC. If this (commercial news) is what we would be striving towards by getting rid of the CBC you can have it. Mindless repetition and drivel all wrapped up in insideous embedded advertising. I believe it only exists for the advertising.


that's called capitalism and the powers that be at the Fraser Institute would have you believe it's the best thing since sliced bread and everything should be for sale
except Harper's soul - that's already been sold to the Devil


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> that's called capitalism and the powers that be at the Fraser Institute would have you believe it's the best thing since sliced bread and everything should be for sale
> except Harper's soul - that's already been sold to the Devil


Heehee! That made me giggle


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## DEWLine (Sep 24, 2005)

It's BAAAA-AAACK!!!
>


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## DEWLine (Sep 24, 2005)

No damn kidding.

Except that if Harper's soul were really consigned to Old Scratch, we'd be seeing him living at 24 Sussex by now. The Devil, I would think, wants _happy_ customers, not frustrated ones, as the happier they are, the better they'll be as walking adverts for the Demonic Cause.

Yes?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

DEWLine said:


> It's BAAAA-AAACK!!!
> >


Unfortunately they brought the CFL commentators with them.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

DEWLine said:


> No damn kidding.
> 
> Except that if Harper's soul were really consigned to Old Scratch, we'd be seeing him living at 24 Sussex by now. The Devil, I would think, wants _happy_ customers, not frustrated ones, as the happier they are, the better they'll be as walking adverts for the Demonic Cause.
> 
> Yes?


Sometimes even *The Prince of Darkness* himself backs a lame horse.


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## MACenstein'sMonster (Aug 21, 2008)

fellfromtree said:


> Honestly, if you have not been listening to Randy Bachman's radio show Vinyl Tap, Saturdays 7:00pm est, you are really missing what CBC is about. All ages, all across the country, and unwittingly (certainly not be design, and to the surprise of Bachman it seems), unexpectedly, Randy has become a spokesman for the average Canadian music listener, as well as an insider to the music industry. Amazing show for music lovers and for Canadians.


Love Randy's show. Catch some of it on the ride home from work if I don't take my bike  

Last night he did a bit about _The Kingsmen_ and their famous song _Louie Louie._ Damn, that song still rocks! The singer sounds so laid back. Gotta be one of the coolest songs ever.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

Speaking of dead threads coming to light...


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

MACenstein'sMonster said:


> Last night he did a bit about _The Kingsmen_ and their famous song _Louie Louie._ Damn, that song still rocks! The singer sounds so laid back. Gotta be one of the coolest songs ever.


It is so . . .

Louie Louie

Yer welcome.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"Honestly, if you have not been listening to Randy Bachman's radio show Vinyl Tap, Saturdays 7:00pm est, you are really missing what CBC is about." Very true. My wife and I do household chores on Sat. night while listening to this show.


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

I love the show as well. Randy has a nice casual way about him that makes it feel as though you're over at a friend's house listening to records.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

It also depends upon his topic each week, or the genre he selects.


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