# Watching TV on my Mac - thoughts



## RISCHead (Jul 20, 2004)

Looks like I'm going to splurge on a 23" Apple Cinema Display.

Given that, I've been investigating my best options for watching TV on my Mac as well.

I'm in the GTA and not a big TV watcher - Roger's basic cable suffices for the moment.

However, I did some basic research into options:
1. EyeTV200 - basic TV/PVR capabilities using my Mac for storage.
2. EyeTV500 - HDTV (broadcast only, not cable) - PVR using my Mac for storage.
3. Rogers HDTV terminal with PVR - 80 GB storage - PVR on the terminal.

I'm sure there are others in terms of PCI TV tuner cards etc - I lump them into category #1 (assuming I can use some PVR software or write my own).

Option #1 is not bad - however, the EyeTV200 price pt is quite high between 450-500 CAD in the GTA. 

Option #2 is the least desirable - broadcast only HD is a bummer with no room for future expansion in terms of viewing other channels. Price is roughly $500.00.
Also, all reports indicate that streaming HD is hugely CPU-intensive and consumes serious storage resources. Not pretty.

Option #3 is the Rogers HDTV terminal with PVR. Supposed to have an enabled Firewire output port - haven't really been able to confirm that the port is enabled.
However, assuming that it is, should work with D-VHS ? Again, suprising lack of information on this.
Depends what it outputs I guess - assuming its the decrypted signal in some standard HD format that D-VHS can read would be my fondest hope.
Worst-case would be simply seeing the terminal's hard disk.

Basically, at a loss as to what to pursue in terms of investment here.
Doesn't have to be immediate, but don't want to spend money on short-term gains, would rather invest in technology that can be built on and expanded over the next couple of years, especially as HD matures and becomes cheaper.

My gut is to try and find out more about the Rogers HDTV solution, because if I can get a true HD signal out of it, then it makes the most sense - no what content protection is introduced - since I'll be using my content provider's solution (and paying for it) - not sure if I'm talking in circles.

Of course, once and if I have that, then I want to be able to watch that on my regular TV as well - one way of course is to burn a DVD, but would be nice to play from my Mac directly (yes, I know about EyeHome, but not impressed and doesn't work in my Roger's scenario). 

anyways, don't know how many of you are experienced in this or have trodden the same path as me, but would like to hear your thoughts.

regards


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

What Mac do you have? If you have a G5 Power Mac there is a DVI to video adapter for $20 US that you can use to output from your Mac to TV. Not sure if it works with a G4 Power Mac.

It sounds like the EyeTV 500 will soon accept cable input by the way. It was announced here: http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/01/11/eyetv500/index.php

This thing has also recently been announced by ATI and Elgato: http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/01/11/eyetvwonder/index.php


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## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

The ATI/Elgato product is for basic cable only. No digital and definately no HDTV. It should function very well for the basics though and with output to tv you can watch your content on the big screen.

As for HDTV, you might be best holding off for the HD PVR and hope that it actually has a functioning firewire for copying content out.

I am currently using a USB based TV tuner with my PowerBook and it's okay for occasional viewing while doing other work. The new ATI/Elgato should be a better version of what I already have and since I have an employee in, I will be getting one soon (I hope).


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## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

BTW - the usb tuner I am using is the MyTV2Go product from Eskape Labs. It's not the best but with enough CPU power and the latest version of their software, it's decent enough. File size when saving seems way out of whack as my initial test created a 1.3GB file for 17 minutes of video. Something is not right there with that kind of size.

I used to use the ATI USB TV Wonder and it was better than my current but it is only for OS 9,

The new one in conjuction with Elgato should be nice.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

Oh, by the way, I have the Rogers HD PVR, but I can't remember if it has the firewire port and if it is enabled. I was just happy to finally be able to record HDTV!


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## RISCHead (Jul 20, 2004)

cool - that was some good feedback already 

I have a dual G5 2GHz Power Mac - 512 MB RAM

I hadn't seen the EyeTV500 announce for cable HDTV support - thanks. Makes it more attractive, but still skeptical about it wrt encrypted content, CPU saturation for streaming etc.

For playing back to TV, I wasn't very clear in my original note. My TV is in a different room from my Mac. Playback would have to over some IP driven technology like EyeHome or PnP A/V based solution - unless I choose to buy a Mac mini and use it with a video adapter.

wrt to the Firewire ports on the HDTV PVR, I'll get back with more details once I am able to get a clear answer.


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

My kids each have a Powermac 5500 with TV Cards in their rooms... amazing that an All in one Mac can double as a TV.

I would suggest looking at the Elgato products as well. I have an eyeHome... does the opposite as it is a media player that lets me get content from my Mac on my TV.


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

Some interesting links:

Slashdot/EFF Reviews HDTV PVR Solution for Mac 
How-To: Firewire HDTV Recording and Playback on Mac OS X (updated) Note article about the Motorola DCT6412 Receiver on Shaw cable.


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## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

Just called Rogers to order an HDTV PVR. Awesome conversation despite the initial piss-off of having to deal with the new phone system. Once I got to a real person things got good, real good.

After outlining that I wanted to rent an HDTV PVR, the attendant put me on hold for a couple of seconds to review my billings. She came back on the line and said she made some changes to my billing structure so that my bills would be less and that she back dated so that I have a $45 credit on my account. I asked a couple of questions about HDTV PVR and channels (I already have a std. digital terminal and an HD terminal but I don't really use the std. digital channels much). Bottom line was that cancelling the std. digital channels, adding the HD specialty channels and trading the HD Terminal for an HD PVR would cost me less per month.

The PVR is in the mail and should arrive in about 1 week. As far as the attendant knew (and she wasn't a tech. support person) the PVR does have active firewire.

Now the fun can really begin...


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## jkojima (Dec 31, 2002)

Plextor also sells a Mac PVR that comes with EyeTV software. This model, the "ConvertX PX-TV402U" is essentially their PC version, but with Mac EyeTV software. I have been wondering if the PC version of the 402 can be somehow converted to the Mac, since the PC version can be found for about $50-100 less than the Mac MSRP.

Alternatively, if you just want to watch TV and not record it, I would suggest a 23" from another manufacturer like HP or BenQ that has more inputs. For example, I have the BenQ 23" with composite and s-video inputs. I currently use a VCR as a tuner, plugged into the video in of my BenQ. Looks great for standard def analog broadcast, and even has PIP. I was worried that the BenQ would be of cheesy quality, but I have been very pleased with my purchase.


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## RISCHead (Jul 20, 2004)

Macified, let me know if the firewire ports work on your HD PVR


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## sinjin (Jul 12, 2003)

jkojima said:


> I have been wondering if the PC version of the 402 can be somehow converted to the Mac, since the PC version can be found for about $50-100 less than the Mac MSRP.


I wondered the same thing and asked Plextor Sales why the Mac version was more expensive than the PC version. They replied:

_The Mac version of the ConvertX is bundled with a more high end software by El Gato which makes up the price difference."_

I thought this a strange position for them to take since anyone can download the software for free. I'm using version 1.7 of the EyeTV software and the Plextor PXTV-402U is listed in the "Device list" that it can be configured for. Anyhow, looking at the comparison chart of the Mac and PC versions, I suspect that all the differences are differences in the software that drives the ConvertX. Notably, the "high end" El Gato software has fewer features than the PC version, but I am willing to accept that it probably is better software than the PC.

I suspect you could buy the PC version, download the EyeTV software and be good to go (and have the PC version available to re-sell later to a larger market if you choose to do so, and the explanation of how to use it on a Mac).


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

One word: noise.

If you plan to actually use the Mac as a replacement for a TV, try to go fanless.


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## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

RISCHead, my PVR arrived and is installed. The recording features are awesome and the picture quality is way better than the previous HD terminal that I had from Rogers (so much better that I am somewhat annoyed at having payed for the service with such poor, by comparison, output).

It looks like the firewire ports are not activated on the new PVR though. When I connect them to my PowerBook, hardware profiler doesn't show them at all. Since they are not seen by the firewire bus, the recording software I have won't capture anything.

I'm going to keep poking around and see what I can do with it, but it looks like a dead end until Rogers decides to activate the ports.


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## RISCHead (Jul 20, 2004)

thanks! Guess I'll be in wait'n'see mode for a while on this.


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## Croptop (Apr 20, 2004)

The firewire ports on the SA8300HD are *not* activated. If you want a pretty good list of the various issues/bugs/complaints of the SA8000 series of set-tops, check out this thread:

http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17213&page=1&pp=20

Post #10 contains the updated list.

I've considered upgrading my SA8000 to the 8300HD but I'm holding off in the hopes that Rogers will make available the multi-room version.


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## haggaret (Mar 16, 2005)

*EyeTV software free but...*



sinjin said:


> I suspect you could buy the PC version, download the EyeTV software and be good to go (and have the PC version available to re-sell later to a larger market if you choose to do so, and the explanation of how to use it on a Mac).


I thought the same thing until I actually downloaded the EyeTV software and attempted to select the ConvertX from the list of devices. I was prompted for an Activation Key to continue. I assume without that Activation key that the software just wont communicate with the ConvertX box.

You can purchase the PC version and then purchase an Activation Key from Plextor though. It'll cost you US $50 for the key though...


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## D k Cornelius (Jan 17, 2003)

*great feedback for EyeTV 200*

After sitting on the fence for awhile (tempted by the still-expensive hard drive based DVD burners that will replace our VCRs eventually) I bought an eyeTV 200 through the classifieds here on ehMac yesterday. Great price, smooth deal.

I give it high marks. Does the job with simple elegance. 
Love the variable sample rate where one can dial up the file size and picture quality. The remote is nicely designed - much better than the one that came with our new DVD/VCR.

One of the things I want to do with it is record all 52 episodes of a language learning program to burn on DVD in the proper order. This alone will pay for the device, compared with buying the program at the rip-off list price from Yale.

Two cons with the eyeTV 200: no Canadian TV listings available with the great bundled software and no AC adaptor. It powers fine through the FireWire cable, but with four hard drives in my G4 already, I would rather power the thing from the wall. Now I have to find a 12v adaptor, but for the price it should include the AC adaptor.

As an aside:
Personally I am not yet interested in recording HDTV from broadcasters or pay tv. The file sizes would mean a lot of burning to DVDs to free hard drive space before I have time to watch things.
But also the current state of the television sets that are the bare mimimum to be called HDTV just don't impress me with the 720p/1080i formats. I think I'll be recording standard NTSC for years to come and for almost everything I watch that is just fine. Usually I'm more interested in the content than the form.
I am interested in watching true 1080p HD movies (I'm in the film business) but even after the proper HD TVs come out, I think the file sizes will mean watching them on prepackaged discs for quite a few years to come.

Another good article on the adoption of HD formats:
The Register


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## ArtificiaLard (Feb 8, 2005)

I've just read that an update to the EyeTV software gives the Plextor ConvertX for Mac the ability to encode DivX/ MPEG-4 video natively from the hardware, which would be a huge plus over the EyeTV units. It typically takes hours to encode a standard MPEG-2 encoding into a DivX file which is significantly smaller and has similar quality. Has anyone tried the ConvertX? How is it?


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## focal (Jan 7, 2003)

from my research, these are your options

1) ATI but it's software encoding, so the faster the mac, the better the quality you can record at
2) convertX...looks like really good value and comes with a power adaptor. I am leaning towards this. Especially with a $30 rebate this month from Plextor. 
3) EyeTV USB/200/500: the older USB may be good enough for casual watching but I think the minimum is the 200 if you're recording for DVD burning
4) Maglia PCI card/evolutionTV..there are two choices...the PCI if you've got a PM and free slots or the newly announced evolution external USB 2 box. Similar to the ConvertX but a bit more money. Rumor is that they'll release a Firewire version shortly. I believe the PCI card is software and the evolution is Hardware encoding.
5) There's very little mention of the Formac TVR. A firewire hardware encoding solution. The US site seems to have gone off line...not a good sign but the UK one is still up. I used this VERY briefly but sold it off cause I bought an older version instead of the newer more OS X capatible one. Haven't found a similar deal since. But it works well.
6) all the "rest": built in cards from Mac's past, older ATI TVwonder, MyTV...or using DV converter box and manually recording. Various quality but it'll get the job done for computer watching. The DV would be the best for off loading to DVD burners but file sizes are huge if you're recording as DV.

7) the cable company; I personally use the Rogers HD PVR...Real convenience and the quality is stunning. It's worth the extra few bucks over the the regular HD terminal. I found I missed a lot of the shows and am too busy to watch at brodcast time, so time-shifting is a HUGE benefit to ENJOYING HD. Word of note, the newer HD PVR's use HDMI instead of DVI. Luckily the COMPUTER cables are MUCH cheaper than the "audio/video" cable of the HDMI to DVI ($30 vs $150-200). 

in the end, I most likly will suppliment my HD PVR with a ConvertX. It seems like the best value. And on the Mac mini I already have a hard drive/isight/DVD burner/DV camera/iPod connected, so using the spare USB 2 port is preferred actually. If anyone is interested, drop me a line, the best price I've got is about $260 NET taxes and rebate.


side note to D k Cornelius: damn...you beat me to the deal for the eyetv200....LOL


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## focal (Jan 7, 2003)

just impulsed at Compusmart (scarborough) and bought the Eskape Labs myTV.pvr USB2 for mac.

still playing around but so far it's good value at 200. A few quirks in the software and the lack of an online schedule makes the product a little less than ideal. recording quality is quite good but this weekend I've got it scheduled to record a few shows. I'll try to burn onto DVD also shortly.

The reviews on line haven't been kind to it, but I am going to give it the weekend before declaring it a winner or mediocre product.


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## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

focal said:


> just impulsed at Compusmart (scarborough) and bought the Eskape Labs myTV.pvr USB2 for mac.
> 
> still playing around but so far it's good value at 200. A few quirks in the software and the lack of an online schedule makes the product a little less than ideal. recording quality is quite good but this weekend I've got it scheduled to record a few shows. I'll try to burn onto DVD also shortly.
> 
> The reviews on line haven't been kind to it, but I am going to give it the weekend before declaring it a winner or mediocre product.



I have the MyTV2Go on my PowerBook and since my update to 10.4 the software has become incredibly flakey. It runs okay and the picture quality is better than it has been under previous versions but I can't make the software run more than once per computer restart. If I run the software and then quit it, it won't run again until I restart. Sometimes I have to restart and re-install and then it will run until I quit and have to start over. I have reported the issue to Eskape but have not heard back after several weeks. I don't use any of the recording features, just viewing.


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## emalen (Oct 10, 2004)

holy crap, i just realized my rogers pvr has a firewire port in the back. can i connect this to my MAC???? that would be awesome...?


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## focal (Jan 7, 2003)

they are on v3.6.1....I haven't had your problems. My problems have been crashes .

1) when you activate in preferences that you can close the TV window. When you do try to close it, it'll crash
2) when I pull up the web guide it crashes also

other quirks like an ultra sensitive remote..

and then there's the files it creates canot be opened by QT, I will have more time to see if they are useable in iMovie. if not, then it's going back..


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## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

emalen said:


> holy crap, i just realized my rogers pvr has a firewire port in the back. can i connect this to my MAC???? that would be awesome...?


Yes you can but it won't do anything. Rogers has dissabled the port. I would love to be able to move content off my PVR but it's a no go.


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## emalen (Oct 10, 2004)

there is no hack out there? wouldn't that be so cool. too bad. record tv shows off my pvr and put it on my ipod. sort of like tivo2go in the states


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## emalen (Oct 10, 2004)

i should add though.. if you enjoy TV, the rogers PVR is the greatest invention!! Honestly, worth every single penny!


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## focal (Jan 7, 2003)

agreed, it's very good...but at 25-28/month, it's pricey


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

Macified said:


> RISCHead, my PVR arrived and is installed. The recording features are awesome and the picture quality is way better than the previous HD terminal that I had from Rogers (so much better that I am somewhat annoyed at having payed for the service with such poor, by comparison, output).
> 
> It looks like the firewire ports are not activated on the new PVR though. When I connect them to my PowerBook, hardware profiler doesn't show them at all. Since they are not seen by the firewire bus, the recording software I have won't capture anything.
> 
> I'm going to keep poking around and see what I can do with it, but it looks like a dead end until Rogers decides to activate the ports.


I think its a safe bet that they meant for the ports to not work, because they don't want to facilitate burning DVDs of broadcast shows, and mean to keep it that way.


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## RISCHead (Jul 20, 2004)

nxnw said:


> I think its a safe bet that they meant for the ports to not work, because they don't want to facilitate burning DVDs of broadcast shows, and mean to keep it that way.


Indeed  dare I say torrent


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

I was reading about certain Motorola HD cable boxes having the firewire port enabled and the Mac (using special software) could emulate a D-VHS HD recorder and capture full 1080p content. I understand that Rogers doesn't use Motorola, but Videotron, Shaw, Mountain, Eastlink and Cogeco do. Has anyone mucked around with this in Canada?


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## focal (Jan 7, 2003)

recorded more shows on the myTV.PVR.

a bit jittery on recording. Uses about 50-65% CPU still MPEG-2 4.9Mb/sec setting on a 1.25MHk G4 Mac Mini. The recorded show plays back smoothly though.

I cannot figure out the encoding they use. QT 7 doesn't play back the recorded files, even though it is a MPEG2 file format. In other words, iMovie cannot work with the file. Also tried Toast to see if I could burn a DVD and again the file format wouldn't allow it to burn. You can preview the video in Toast though.

On top of the minor software glitch, this is definitely going back. Shame cause the price is good, and the recorded quality is quite decent. But not having Toast integration basically is the final straw. What's the point of a computer PVR if you cannot burn to DVD.


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## Derrick (Dec 22, 2004)

gmark2000 said:


> I was reading about certain Motorola HD cable boxes having the firewire port enabled and the Mac (using special software) could emulate a D-VHS HD recorder and capture full 1080p content. I understand that Rogers doesn't use Motorola, but Videotron, Shaw, Mountain, Eastlink and Cogeco do. Has anyone mucked around with this in Canada?


I have Shaw Cable and the Motorola HD cable box (DCT-6200) ... I followed the article below and it works like a charm (I have been using this method for over a year):

http://macteens.com/index.php/features/fullstory/how_to_make_your_own_home_theatre_mac_htmac/

I use VLC to play the recorded content back ... as the article mentions, you can set up events within iCal to record while you are away from your computer ... you just have to make sure the set top box is set to the channel you need.


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## ericssonboi (Jan 26, 2005)

I kind of skimmed through the thread looking for a solution to view TV on my Powerbook. The only thing that i saw that came close was the *Eskape Labs myTV.pvr USB2*. Can anyone confirm that this will work on a Powerbook?

Also.. i'm using Bell Expressvu... and would this be compatible with it?


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## focal (Jan 7, 2003)

I was saying the mytv.pvr will let you watch and record TV, but my experience the past few days is that I haven't been able to burn a DVD with the recordings or integrate with iMovie. 

the ConvertX looks like a better solution and I'm trying that this weekend. It's $260 or so at Canada Computers.


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## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

If you are on Satellite, you won't be able to use a "TV" solution. All "TV" solutions work with standard broadcast cable.

For satellite you would be best with a USB2 or preferably a firewire video in solution. Set the receiver to the channel you want and use it's S-Video or RCA video out to connect to the input box for the computer. You would then be able to record with QuickTime Pro, iMovie or whatever solution shipped with the input box.

I am considering this for my PowerBook since my "TV" solution is not working all that well.

Good luck.


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## focal (Jan 7, 2003)

so I sent the myTV.pvr back and picked up the convertX. The software is definitely better. Surprisingly the TV watching is clearer with the myTV.PVR.

As for the burnign DVD's and Toast integration, it's definitely great to have now.

as for CPU usage, it's a relatively low 20-30%

it's worth the extra for the convertX..PERIOD


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## mactavish (Sep 13, 2005)

Wait until Jan, rumour has it an intel mac mini with tuner & front row 2 will be released. It's on all the usual mac rumour sites so I won't list any URL's.

I can't wait !


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## focal (Jan 7, 2003)

mactavish said:


> Wait until Jan, rumour has it an intel mac mini with tuner & front row 2 will be released. It's on all the usual mac rumour sites so I won't list any URL's.
> 
> I can't wait !


yeah, I just heard but the convert X is a good solution for that that have a computer already.


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## dmg (Feb 4, 2003)

*PVR FireWire port*

I haven't read the entire thread so this may have already been stated or my information may be old.

The last time I looked in to it, the FireWire ports on PVRs could only be used to add aditional external Firewire drives to increase recording capacity.

People had recorded to external drives only to find that the files were encoded using the PVR's serial number so that you could play back the files only on the PVR that recorded it. You couldn't, for instance, record to an external FW drive in your living room and then playback the file on the PVR in your bedroom.

Isn't DRM a wonderful thing? 
~dmg


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