# Buyer Beware - American Standard Champion Model Toilet



## skinnyboy (Oct 7, 2007)

Lately I've been trying to put the finishing touches on a total gut bathroom reno. This project has been going on for 7 months as I've been juggling it with work, kids, and general work around the house (doing everything myself, as usual, with advice from some professionals when needed). 

Today I was installing the toilet, an *American Standard* "Williamsburg" (style) *Champion model*. Got the bowl in place, level, and squared to the walls. Next, the tank - hooooleeeeeee f*************ck! I thought I was going to crack the porcelain trying to get the tank properly seated on the bowl. The freakin gasket that goes between the 2 pieces (provides the water seal) is as thick as Star Jones' ankles. Seriously, if you've ever installed a toilet before, this is not normal. So I decided to do some googling to see wassup with this toilet, eh. Found this site:

Champion Review - Terry Love's Plumbing & Remodel DIY advice forum

Wow, tons of people complaining about the same problem and more. Some tried to solve the problem with shims between the bowl and tank, one dude used cedar shims - LMAO!!! Not a good fix. When you install a toilet the tank and bowl have to sit on each other in a rock solid stable fashion or if after Thanksgiving dinner your 300lb uncle Bob leans back against the tank he may move it and then you may get a leak.

On the above mentioned site, besides talk of a class action lawsuit against American Standard there were a few positive responses. Those who had success with the install mentioned using a second person to lean their weight on the tank during the tightening of the tank bolts. Believe me, I followed this advice and it works, bull**** to have to do it, but it works. If you decide to go ahead with the install you may want to do the same. Plus, make sure you get the tank level. It doesn't automatically sit level once you get it sitting on the bowl.

The only reason I'm following through with the install is because of the matching pedestal sink that will be installed next. After looking at tons of pedestals the AS Williamsburg sink has everything we want in style and more importantly in function (one of the only pedestal sinks I found with a significant built in back splash). If I can get the toilet to work to my satisfaction then I will install the sink. If the toilet doesn't work as it should then back to Home Depot it goes - either to the "returns desk" or through the freakin' window if need be beejacon


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## SoyMac (Apr 16, 2005)

I've done a lot of renovations and installed a lot of toilets. 
I bought two American Standard toilets once.
They're the only toilets I've ever returned. - Yep, after installing and _using_ them. Ripped them out and took them back.
We now joke that, with toilets, the "American Standard " is the world's lowest.


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## gwillikers (Jun 19, 2003)

SoyMac said:


> We now joke that, with toilets, the "American Standard " is the world's lowest.


So what you're really saying is... they aren't worth a crap.  

_sorry, I couldn't help it_


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

.


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

skinnyboy said:


> hooooleeeeeee f*************ck! ... bull****


Is this language really necessary to make your point?


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## Mississauga (Oct 27, 2001)

guytoronto said:


> Is this language really necessary to make your point?


I'd make an exception when referring to American Standard products. They really are that bad.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Dictionary definition of threadcrapping: ^^^^^^.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

American Standard is not what it used to be. 

This brand is considered one of the best:

Residential Toilets

Ain't cheap, but worth every flush.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

The names of toilets are so preposterous:
* The Champion (of what?)
* Glacier Bay (what the seat feels like in February)
* Town Square (where we all want our toilets located);
* The Retrospect and Memoirs (for toilet pensées and daydreams); 
* The Triumph! (I'm glad that's over).

I think I want to own "The Pegasus."


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## Chris (Feb 8, 2001)

Sorry to appear contrarian, but when I installed an American Standard Champion toilet about three years ago, both parts went together with no problem. About a year later I had to replace the bowl, owing to damage caused during renovations, and, again, absolutely no problem. I just tightened the bolts down evenly (couple of turns on the left, couple of turns on the right) and the toilet is properly installed, level, solid, and working as advertised.

It's never clogged, or failed to clean out the bowl at one flush. I consider it one of the best toilets I've ever used in a domestic situation. I'm not trying to deny your problems, just noting their complete absence from my experience with the product.

Gotta go back to work and finish some s*** now!


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

.


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## skinnyboy (Oct 7, 2007)

guytoronto said:


> Is this language really necessary to make your point?


Yes.

And if you ever tried installing one of these you'd be lucky not to find yourself using the same or worse


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## skinnyboy (Oct 7, 2007)

Chris said:


> Sorry to appear contrarian, but when I installed an American Standard Champion toilet about three years ago, both parts went together with no problem. About a year later I had to replace the bowl, owing to damage caused during renovations, and, again, absolutely no problem. I just tightened the bolts down evenly (couple of turns on the left, couple of turns on the right) and the toilet is properly installed, level, solid, and working as advertised.
> 
> It's never clogged, or failed to clean out the bowl at one flush. I consider it one of the best toilets I've ever used in a domestic situation. *I'm not trying to deny your problems,* just noting their complete absence from my experience with the product.
> 
> Gotta go back to work and finish some s*** now!


Not really my problems, yet. The install of the tank to bowl was successful, but unusually difficult/tedious IMO. The website I highlighted in the original post has overwhelming negative feedback on the Champion model going back to '04 with mention of a class action lawsuit (possibly in the works as we speak). Some of the posters on that site sound like DIY's and others mention using professional plumbers but all with similar problems involving the install, a leaking flush valve (gasket problem), breaking parts (that AS will not replace and instead they ship an entire new tank!?!?), and an exceptionally loud "clunk" during the flush.

I've yet to hook-up my water intake as I've limited time until later this week (don't want to run into a problem with limited time to resolve it). But now that I have a heads up to the potential problems I will move with more than the usual amount of caution before I complete the task. Maybe/hopefully I'll be as fortunate as yourself. 

I have another AS toilet that I installed about 6 years ago in my other bathroom and it works great, but it's a different model. I'll post back when the job is done.


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## skinnyboy (Oct 7, 2007)

MasterBlaster said:


> Get a Furguson Toilet​


Classic  

Damn, does Ferguson make pedestal sinks too???


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

Macfury said:


> I think I want to own "The Pegasus."


Or, 'The Unicorn'....


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## gastonbuffet (Sep 23, 2004)

mrjimmy said:


> Or, 'The Unicorn'....


That's just pushing it


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## Mississauga (Oct 27, 2001)

Chris said:


> Sorry to appear contrarian, but when I installed an American Standard Champion toilet about three years ago, both parts went together with no problem. About a year later I had to replace the bowl, owing to damage caused during renovations, and, again, absolutely no problem. I just tightened the bolts down evenly (couple of turns on the left, couple of turns on the right) and the toilet is properly installed, level, solid, and working as advertised.
> 
> It's never clogged, or failed to clean out the bowl at one flush. I consider it one of the best toilets I've ever used in a domestic situation. I'm not trying to deny your problems, just noting their complete absence from my experience with the product.


Oh, so YOU'RE the guy who got the only good one! Congratulations!!!


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## Chris (Feb 8, 2001)

Yes, it has a loud clunk when flushing, but I find that to be reassuring, more than anything else. It means it's working, dammit!  



Mississauga said:


> Oh, so YOU'RE the guy who got the only good one! Congratulations!!!



Yes, Mississauga. Thanks for your kind sentiments. I hate it when good news is pooh-pooed! :lmao:


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## Mississauga (Oct 27, 2001)

Chris said:


> Yes, it has a loud clunk when flushing, but I find that to be reassuring, more than anything else. It means it's working, dammit!


Or you seriously need to change the fiber content of your diet!


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## Chris (Feb 8, 2001)

Mississauga said:


> Or you seriously need to change the fiber content of your diet!


:lmao: 

My daughter had the habit of flushing ANYTHING she deemed "icky". This resulted in some serious plunger sessions. Since the Champion was installed, no, that is NOT ONE plunger event! 

Of course, she is older now, and I suspect that her flushing habits are a bit more mainstream.


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## skinnyboy (Oct 7, 2007)

*Update*

So far so good!

Outside the the initial frustration of setting the tank to the bowl the remaining install was straight forward and without any problems (much easier than installing the faucet on my pedestal sink  ).

For two weeks now it's been doing it's job without any issues. Yes, it makes a "clunk" sound when you flush but it's not nearly as loud as some of the posters made it out to be on the website I mentioned earlier.

I still don't believe it's a good DYI toilet to install unless you have the patience to do some research and get a "heads up" on what you're getting into with this particular model.


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