# How to choose a good HD camera compatible with iMovie



## meall (Aug 15, 2007)

*How to choose a good HD camera compatible with iMovie?*

Hi,

I am slowly thinking of moving to HD and buy an HD camera to use with iMovie HD and 08.

Some of my interests are:


having a good image stabilisation in hardware (optical) if possible. I know many Sony's have that, but some others don't!
Have a "good eye" to catch video in low light scene (like theater play for example)
compatible with iMovie 08, for sure

So, more specific questions are:


How can we make sure a camera is full HD compliant? I remember a few years back that one Sony model I looked at was describe as HD, but the CCD was only at 1440x1080 (or something near) and the horizontal 1920 was extrapolated. Not really what I call real HD. I see many manufacturer using the "FULL HD" tag (Sony, for one) but does that mean the CCD/CMOS is really there for HD? Some have (like HV20 from Canon) a real 1920 horizontal def, but since they're using tapes, I heard that the writing on the tape is chunk to 1440, because that is the tape format. So what's the best compromise?
As for darken scene, how can I compare one camera to another to be sure it will serve me well in those moment I need this? I have a DSLR camera, which is nice because I can change lenses when needed, but camcorder don't have this feature normally.
I would love an HD cam with HDD and card slot for expandability, but is it worth paying for the HDD? or simply use memory cards as tape? SD cards can be obtained at cheap price those days (So far, not as cheap as tape, for sure), and they may contains much more video than a DV tape (one hour normally). HDD looks as the best of all worlds, except that an HDD will eventually fail and, then, what with the camera?
AVCHD vs HDV: those are the two comon formats used for consumer HD video. The first with HDD and memory card, other with tape. Any differences in quality? What about importing time (AVCHD is known to be quite difficult to import and may be more incompatible sometimes, as manufacturer have some different kind of format for this) and the size on the computer HDD?

I would like to know what you have, if you have an HD cam.

And where in Canada to look for the best killing price of those? I'm taking a look at eBay, and in the USA, for instance, the Sony HDR-SR5 sometimes goes for around 600$, half the price it is listen here at Dumoulin. No warranty, for sure, but considering the difference in price... It's a risk some may be tempted to take.

Any other comments or suggestions would be nice.

Thanks


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

I bought a HV20 before Xmas. I went for DV tape format for a number of reasons. The media is cheap and plentiful. It's backward compatible with my old DV tapes. Finally, my research told me that video written to HDDs or cards is heavily compressed and you often need proprietary software to read it.

I don't know about your horizontal resolution issue but I can just tell you that playback on my 52" TV is fantastic. 

My only complaint is that the camera is not well designed from an ergonomic sense. It's heavy and awkward and the zoom button is in a really bad spot.


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## meall (Aug 15, 2007)

hhk said:


> My only complaint is that the camera is not well designed from an ergonomic sense. It's heavy and awkward and the zoom button is in a really bad spot.


From what I read already about the HV20, that is one complaint people are saying aloud!

As for the resolution issue, it is said to keep some kind of compatibility with tapes: if written in 1920x1080, the tape would not hold the 1 hour per tape as describe. Anyway, if you say it is good on a 42", I am sure it will be on my 40" 

In my case, my old DV camera used 8 mm tapes (not mini DV), so for me it is a reinvestment in new tapes anyway. That's why I widen my look on all possibilities, then I'll focus on one particular model and find it at a decent price.

As for AVCDH (the HDD format) that is sure heavily compress, but said to keep a very good quality overal anyway. Strange, but seam true! And to use it, you absolutely need an Intel Mac, as iMovie 08 (iMovie HD don't know this format) won't support it on a G5. In my case I'm covered with an iMac 24".

Thanks for your comments


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## a7mc (Dec 30, 2002)

I don't have too much time to post a super detailed reply (and even then, it would be so technical I don't know that anyone would understand it anyway), so I'll just post a few quick thoughts on the subject.

1- There is currently no consumer camera (or even prosumer for that matter) that offers real "full HD" recording. You have to understand that the end video resolution is a combination of CCD sensor and codec support. Even my $5000+ HVX200 uses pixel shift technology and doesn't digitize at "real" HD resolutions. Don't let this stop you... just compare image quality instead.

2- HDD vs tape will be an ongoing battle for some time still. Others will surely disagree with me, but unless you're using the camera for pro use (i.e. you have a laptop with you to dump video to, or only record 20 minutes a day and digitize immediately) then tape will always be a better solution. What if you're on vacation and you forgot to download your xmas footage before leaving? If you have HDD, your choices are to lose your xmas footage or not record on vacation. If you have tape, you simply pop-in a new tape. Trust me, tape is where it's at. 

2b- I don't know of any video recorders that record HD footage to normal memory sticks. Memory cards are too slow to capture HD footage.

3- AVCHD Vs HDV: Preferably neither.  That's why I own the HVX200... I record with DVCProHD instead. HDV is highly compressed so it will have lots of compression artifacts in fast moving scenes, whereas AVCHD is a crappy codec so it has lots of bleeding and halo issues. Again, you also have to see #2 above... HDV is tape, AVCHD is HDD. If you plan on editing, HDV wins. Because of AVCHD's long interframe compression, your edits not only look worse, but it slows down the system as well.

As for low-light and image stabilization, you'll just have to play with the cameras and see what works for you. Not everyone has the same skill level in setting up a camera, so what works for me, might not work for you, and what works for you, might not work for someone else. Just try before you buy if possible.

A7


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## meall (Aug 15, 2007)

a7mc said:


> I don't have too much time to post a super detailed reply (and even then, it would be so technical I don't know that anyone would understand it anyway), so I'll just post a few quick thoughts on the subject.


Thanks, without behind technical, your answer was very interesting!



> 1- There is currently no consumer camera (or even prosumer for that matter) that offers real "full HD" recording. You have to understand that the end video resolution is a combination of CCD sensor and codec support. Even my $5000+ HVX200 uses pixel shift technology and doesn't digitize at "real" HD resolutions. Don't let this stop you... just compare image quality instead.


Very insightful. I was under the impression that Sony and the others were doing the same trick we have around the HDD sizes (bytes vs Mb vs Gb etc). Now I better understand what the market is all about. If at 5000$ you don't have it, I won't try to find it for around 1000$ or less!



> 2- HDD vs tape will be an ongoing battle for some time still. Others will surely disagree with me, but unless you're using the camera for pro use (i.e. you have a laptop with you to dump video to, or only record 20 minutes a day and digitize immediately) then tape will always be a better solution. What if you're on vacation and you forgot to download your xmas footage before leaving? If you have HDD, your choices are to lose your xmas footage or not record on vacation. If you have tape, you simply pop-in a new tape. Trust me, tape is where it's at.


It happen to me once to be short on tapes, I stopped at WallMart, buy 2 DV tapes, and was on for the remaining of my vacation. That why I am still thinking that tape are not too bad. 



> 2b- I don't know of any video recorders that record HD footage to normal memory sticks. Memory cards are too slow to capture HD footage.


This is coming slowly with SDHC sticks. See that article from CES. But again, one is stock to buy memory which may happen to be not very cheap depending were you buy it.



> 3- AVCHD Vs HDV: Preferably neither.


That's something I can't afford! But from the rest of your explanation, I do understand that for editing HDV will be better, faster and it will be compatible with the 2 latest version of iMovie, while AVCHD is iMovie 08 only. And I have an iMac 2.16 Ghz, which may slow down the whole process I have been used too.



> As for low-light and image stabilization, you'll just have to play with the cameras and see what works for you.


OK. I will also read articles and comparisons. I may have thought that some technology or terms could have been used to be safe. For instance, in DSRL the focal and the VR (in Nikon terms) said a lot about a lens. But it looks like the video world is not really the same.

Thanks a lot!


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## meall (Aug 15, 2007)

hhk said:


> I bought a HV20 before Xmas.


I did a quick search for best price in Canada for this model, and that is 870$. Just under the psychological thousand number... Good so far


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

I bought mine for under $800 at Futureshop. Vistek had it for $769 during their Mississauga grand opening. I think if you're patient or good at haggling, you can break the $800 barrier.


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## meall (Aug 15, 2007)

hhk said:


> I bought mine for under $800 at Futureshop. Vistek had it for $769 during their Mississauga grand opening. I think if you're patient or good at haggling, you can break the $800 barrier.


That is nice to know. Thanks for adding this information!


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

a7mc said:


> I don't have too much time to post a super detailed reply (and even then, it would be so technical I don't know that anyone would understand it anyway), so I'll just post a few quick thoughts on the subject.


Sir, you gave out a bucketload of solid info and real-world experience in that short post. Well done!
:clap:


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Just one more point to ponder: a third-party utility exists that converts AVCHD to edit-friendly HDV 1080i via Apple's Intermediate Codec. Obviously it's a better idea not to have AVCHD used (since it's highly compressed as mentioned above), but if some of your footage is in that format ...

VoltaicHD for Mac | ShedWorx


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## meall (Aug 15, 2007)

chas_m said:


> Just one more point to ponder: a third-party utility exists that converts AVCHD to edit-friendly HDV 1080i via Apple's Intermediate Codec. Obviously it's a better idea not to have AVCHD used (since it's highly compressed as mentioned above), but if some of your footage is in that format ...
> 
> VoltaicHD for Mac | ShedWorx


I suppose there is lost again in conversion. So, may not be the best solution either...

And I agree with you A7 has given a short but very informative post. Thanks to him!


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

meall said:


> I suppose there is lost again in conversion.


To clarify: AVCHD is already a compressed format. Converting it to HDV should not cause any further loss of quality beyond what choosing AVCHD in the first place did.


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## a7mc (Dec 30, 2002)

You're welcome. Glad I could help.

As for transcoding to HDV, actually, there would be some quality loss. Neither AVCHD nor HDV are lossless compression, so you would recompressing an already compressed format. Although it would likely be minimal, there would be some quality loss.

Final Cut would have a decent solution... they have an Pro-level intermediate codec called ProRes. That would be a decent format to transcode to. But I don't think it's available in iMovie. I think starting with an HDV camera would be best.

And for the record, I think the HV20 is a great little camera.

A7


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## meall (Aug 15, 2007)

Hi,

I'm looking at tech news now that CES has ended, and many new products were announced. 



Sony has a new HDR-HC9 (Price 1099USD)

Canon has a new HV30

Any comments on those?


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