# Camera advise... i'm a ready for a DSLR?



## kevs~just kevs (Mar 21, 2005)

This hobby is turning into more of an obsession for me... I love my little 4mp Fuji, but I'm looking for something that gives me more options to play with the image. For example I'd love a camera that allowed me to keep the shutter open long enough to take photos of the stars at night. I know I can do that with an DSLR, but I'm I ready to give up the movie option ( as i understand DSLR's don't offer a video mode) and ease of use that comes with a P&S camera?

I was considering this Panasonic Panasonic DMC-FZ30 Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review , but for a little more $ I could have a DSLR..

Soooo, how do I know if I'm ready for the commitment that comes with the DSLR camera???


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

Go with Nikon or Canon. 

You have options with lenses. Check out Nikon, thats what I have D50.

Nikon Canada


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## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

Go down to a camera store and play with the Canon Rebel's and the Nikon's and see which you prefer. I'm a Canon guy but honestly either works and its a matter of personal preferences which you go with. Most of my friends are Canon folk as well so its easier for us to borrow lenses from each other so you may want to take that into consideration. The Canon forum is very helpful if you do decide to go that route.

Canon Digital Photography Forums - Powered by vBulletin


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

Andrew Pratt said:


> Go down to a camera store and play with the Canon Rebel's and the Nikon's and see which you prefer. I'm a Canon guy but honestly either works and its a matter of personal preferences which you go with. Most of my friends are Canon folk as well so its easier for us to borrow lenses from each other so you may want to take that into consideration. The Canon forum is very helpful if you do decide to go that route.
> 
> Canon Digital Photography Forums - Powered by vBulletin


Good advice. The reason I got a nikon was because it was on special at Henry's.

The only problem I have now is buying lenses, it can get expensive. I would suggest taking classes for training. it helps


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

kevs~just kevs said:


> Soooo, how do I know if I'm ready for the commitment that comes with the DSLR camera???


Time to learn and practice, and possibly deep pockets.


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## kevs~just kevs (Mar 21, 2005)

Joker Eh said:


> and possibly deep pockets.


Thats my big concern... a decent DSLR with a good lens isn't going to come in under $1000 is it...

I need to keep it in the $400-500 rage...

Perhaps at this point a super zoom camera would be my best option.


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## yoyo (Aug 3, 2003)

Lots of good used DSLR on Craigslist. For $500 you can get a camera and lens.


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## spitfire1945 (May 17, 2008)

kevs~just kevs said:


> Thats my big concern... a decent DSLR with a good lens isn't going to come in under $1000 is it...
> 
> I need to keep it in the $400-500 rage...
> 
> Perhaps at this point a super zoom camera would be my best option.


You can easily get a Nikon D70 for that price range with a body and lens. Its a good started camera imho and I personally started out with a D70 and I still have it. But I mostly use the D80 and D200 now. 

Please don't buy the D40 and D40x series and don't get tempted by their price. You will be severely crippled when it comes to lens selection for those two.


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## keebler27 (Jan 5, 2007)

i'm going to pipe in a vote for Pentax. why? b/c they have the same sensor size as a nikon d40 and their body has the shake reduction built in meaning your options for lens are greater (ie. nikon camera bodies don't have it built in so you have to buy a lens which has it..and you can use older Pentax lens meaning they'd be lower priced). And Pentax generally cost less than a nikon or canon.

i'm not slamming either of those b/c i would love to a Nikon. I went for the pentax for the reasons described and I love it (pentax K100...the K200 is this year's version).

shop around as other suggest.

i was like you..made the change a year ago next week and won't look back. I also bought the manual to photography book by john hedgecoe and it's been a great help.

best of luck,
keebler


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## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

Personally I'd stick with Canon or Nikon over Pentax if only b/c finding quality used gear for Canon or Nikon is fairly easy to do and that's where the savings come in. Since you're just getting started what I'd suggest is pick up a used Canon Rebel XT body and a starter lens (18-50 is the standard kit). You should easily be able to do that within your budget range and once you're comfortable with that assess your needs and buy appropriately. The Canon forum I posted above has an active used market and I've bought/sold a LOT of gear from that site over the years trying out different combo's of gear. Take your time and do your homework...and don't be afraid to ask questions...better to ask now then buy the wrong thing to start with.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

spitfire1945 said:


> Please don't buy the D40 and D40x series and don't get tempted by their price. You will be severely crippled when it comes to lens selection for those two.


By this, 'spitfire' means that the D40/D40x/D60 series bodies do not sport built-in AF motors (auto-focus), meaning the lenses you purchase must have the AF motor built-in to them, and few lenses do. However, the body is still compatible with many lenses if you can manually focus. 

I own a D40, and never regretted the purchase. Absolutely love this little camera.


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## lreynolds (Dec 28, 2005)

To further clarify, it is my understanding that if you are willing to set exposure manually as well, the D40 actually is compatible with more of the older lenses than other recent vintage Nikons are. Which is a bonus if you want to pick up cheap, good quality lenses.


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## machael (Apr 27, 2008)

a sony alpha (A350) would be a nice body if you wanna go a little higher in price. that is body only though, but they have some great zeiss lenses you could invest in. 

i shoot nikon, myself and my girlfriend uses a d40 and i have to say it's an amazing camera. the rear display is one of the best i've ever seen and the camera itself is a pleasure to use. that and an 18-55 lens should be within your budget and a great intro the dslr scene.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

The D40 with 18-55mm kit lens is $499+ tax at almost all locations that sell the camera. You might get it lower if you negotiate a bit, especially at a store like Futureshop.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Maybe you don't need a full DSLR? Try the Canon S5 IS (review) -- I have the S3 IS, and it's faaabulous!

And despite the official specks, it can do RAW with the CHDK hack.


M


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## bgw (Jan 8, 2008)

For point and shoot - Canon.

For high end work - Nikon.

Those are my biases.

Read and play. You'll find out what suits you. 

Now if I just could afford that D700....


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2008)

I'm also a Canon fan, but either way around I'd say go DSLR. Some point and shoots are pretty good these days, but they are really one trick ponies at the end of the day. If you're getting more into photography then it's crazy not to as when it's time to upgrade next you'd have pretty much thrown that money away. with P&S you don't generally get the option to buy new lenses for it when you want higher quality or different/more specialized stuff to play with. Good lenses can carry up to the next body so you maximize in that regard.

I have a Rebel XT that I just rolled over 20,000 actuations on (and it still works like the day I got it) and a few of the Canon "L" series lenses and couldn't be happier with my photo rig. Nikon seems to have good stuff out these days too, so there are decent options for < $1000 out there for sure. With camera gear "good lens" is a very ambiguous term  You don't even want to know how much you can spend on lenses to get "good" ones!


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## Carl (Jun 7, 2003)

I went with Pentax, mainly because I can use 20 or 30 year old lenses and they fit! Nikon uses the same sensor technology, and lens quality is identical since all the majors use the same equipment to polish, and use the same chemicals to coat (I was in nano-polishing for years--all the equipment is the same).
If this were 35 mm film, I would say Nikon or Canon, but digital is not the same thing. It's not even close to being the camera we used to know. It's a computer chip, a sensor and some glass. 20 or 25 years ago, the best glass was Nikon or Canon, but that isn't true anymore.
Pentax invented the SLR but never had the marketing of Nikon or Canon. I like them because now they try harder and offer features you don't see on the big names for less money.
In the end though, asking for opinions on cameras is like asking PC or Mac. There are real devotees out there who think that there is some kind of major difference between these cameras and they won't budge. Me, I have owned all the brands. I preferred Nikon for film because it had the aluminum body and took more abuse than the Canon, but that was just my preference. They both did very nice jobs. Now, I like my Pentax, but to be honest, I like the new Nikons just as much for quality. Canon is probably just as good, but I have never owned one. In the end, I wanted to buy some older lenses and the Pentax mount hasn't changed in many years. It let's me buy lower cost, older, and very nice glass to try different things. NIkon and Canon make you buy new lenses. I lose the AF, but I prefer to manually focus anyway, and my Pentax lets me stablize through the body and compensate for the lens I attach. That is pretty cool, especially when you use a big telephoto. Anti shake in a Nikon or Canon lens is expensive. I also prefer AA batteries and get 1000 shots from my system. That way, I can always get cheap alkalines in a pinch instead of worrying about a proprietary battery pack (ever run out of juice?). Pentax also had a wider diopter correction for me, since I wear glasses, the other cameras required an extra purchase. These were features I wanted, but maybe they are not important to you.
You just need to research your needs and make your own decision. I'm not saying Pentax is for everyone, but when you take the sensor and glass out of the equation (very similar), you need to identify the little things you require, and then find the camera that fits the budget.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

If you're serious about photographing stars, I don't think you're going to get satisfactory results within that $500 budget.

You'll need a camera that can shoot B (bulb) for long periods of time as most timeout. A camera capable of using a programmable cable release (so you don't have to keep your thumb pressed down), possibly with mirror lock-up and a good sensor capable of minimizing noise at long exposures.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

Carl said:


> I
> Pentax invented the SLR but never had the marketing of Nikon or Canon.


That's news to me...

History of the single-lens reflex camera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## SoyMac (Apr 16, 2005)

kevs~just kevs said:


> ...Perhaps at this point a super zoom camera would be my best option.


If you _do_ decide to go with a non-DSLR, May I suggest the Fuji S100FS.

I bought a Canon S5IS on all the excellent recommendations, and I absolutely hated it.

I had good a very good experience with Fuji digital in the past, and maybe that steered me toward the S100FS, and to me the S100FS feels great, shoots great, has a wonderful lens, and the one extra little feature I was looking for because of nature shots - a flip-out LCD, as well as a good eyepiece.

The S100FS also accepts a shutter-release cable.

From Fuji's site:
Fuji Finepix S100 FS

From DPReview:
Review of Fuji S100FS


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

SoyMac said:


> I bought a Canon S5IS on all the excellent recommendations, and I absolutely hated it.


Interesting... I've had mine for almost a year now (the previous, S3 IS model, which is marginally different) and have found it to be an excellent camera. My only complaint is the inability to find the wide-angle lens here in Mexico...  

M


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## Daktari (Feb 21, 2005)

kps said:


> If you're serious about photographing stars, I don't think you're going to get satisfactory results within that $500 budget.
> 
> You'll need a camera that can shoot B (bulb) for long periods of time as most timeout. A camera capable of using a programmable cable release (so you don't have to keep your thumb pressed down), possibly with mirror lock-up and a good sensor capable of minimizing noise at long exposures.


I can't wait for my remote cord for my Sony A200 to arrive! 

To the OP, consider the Sony A200. It has image stabilization and you can use all the old A-mount Minolta SLR and DSLR autofocus lenses. I think it's on sale now for $499 with the kit lens.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

I've been watching various forums and reviews on the Canon 450D. The only issues for me are the possibility of it feeling too small in my hands and the focus issue. I can't test feel the camera before purchasing due to our location. The focus issue is a concern for some, but there are those that have no issue with it at all. Nice camera.


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## CdnPhoto (Jan 8, 2006)

I would agree with many of the other posts recommending a Nikon or Canon. What you're really buying into is a long term purchase. You may out grow the body, but as you purchase better lenses, they will stay with you when you move to better bodies in the same brand.

Read reviews from dpreview.com on the different cameras.


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## Gabbadude (Nov 17, 2005)

I have the D40 and totally satisfied with it. I knew about the lack of motor for focus for some lenses and it's a non issue. I have 4 lenses and all of them are totally controlled by the camera.

The nice thing about the D40 - D40x (maybe even D60) is the tutorial on the camera. It will give your hints and help on all the features.


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## bgw (Jan 8, 2008)

For astrophotography Canon makes some special camera with special sensors in them. They may be the way to go. Check out the astronomy magazines for advice.


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## kevs~just kevs (Mar 21, 2005)

SoyMac said:


> If you _do_ decide to go with a non-DSLR, May I suggest the Fuji S100FS.
> 
> I bought a Canon S5IS on all the excellent recommendations, and I absolutely hated it.
> 
> ...


In terms of price I think the Canon is more for me... the Fugi is going for $700+ on ebay even!


Thanks to everyone for all your replies. I have a lot more reading to do to see what my actual needs/wants are. I was unaware that I could even get lenses for non dslr cameras! Right now i'm leaning towards a super zoom instead of a dslr. One of the things I have to consider is that my wife will be using this camera as well and she isn't incredibly techy so perhaps the easier to use the better, for us anyway...


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## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

CubaMark said:


> Interesting... I've had mine for almost a year now (the previous, S3 IS model, which is marginally different) and have found it to be an excellent camera. My only complaint is the inability to find the wide-angle lens here in Mexico...
> 
> M


CM - I have a wide angle adapter with mount for the S2IS. It's from Raynox. If you check their site and think it will work you can have for next to nothing and shipping. My S2IS was stolen and the wide angle adapter doesn't work with my current dSLR camera.


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## makuribu (Oct 26, 2005)

*And for you lottery winners out there*

H3DII-50

Not exactly in the $500 range.


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## Hodge (Feb 2, 2007)

I have a D40 as well - I think it's a great entry-level DSLR.


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## (( p g )) (Aug 17, 2002)

Generally you can't go wrong with either Nikon or Canon. Personally, I'm partial to Nikon for its DSLRs because I prefer its controls and how the camera feels in my hand. And yet when it comes to point-and-shoots, I still think it's Canon's game. 

The Nikon D40 is a great starter camera. You won't get as many features as you might with the D80, but then again too many features can overwhelm and hold you back from being creative with your shots.

Features and expensive gear don't take great photos; great photographers do.


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2008)

Just a point to add, with the worries about your wife using the DSLR .. they can be used pretty much exactly the same as typical P&S if you want, set it to "A" (which stands for Auto on Canons) and it works just like a P&S.


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## jeepguy (Apr 4, 2008)

kevs~just kevs said:


> Right now i'm leaning towards a super zoom instead of a dslr. One of the things I have to consider is that my wife will be using this camera as well and she isn't incredibly techy so perhaps the easier to use the better, for us anyway...


My wife has a Sony H10 x10 zoom and loves it, and shes not very techy


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## spitfire1945 (May 17, 2008)

Look into the D60 as well. Its basically the D80 with some features cut out and the look and feel of a D40/D40x


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## PierreB (Mar 5, 2007)

*Close to a DSLR*



kevs~just kevs said:


> Thats my big concern... a decent DSLR with a good lens isn't going to come in under $1000 is it...
> 
> I need to keep it in the $400-500 rage...
> 
> Perhaps at this point a super zoom camera would be my best option.


If you want to take your photography up a notch but don't want to go to a DLSR right away because of budget - consider the Canon G9. 

It is a very good camera allows you to use the same functions as a DLSR (full manual for aperture, etc.) including taking pictures in RAW mode. Price is right in your budget i.e., between $450 and $500.


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## PierreB (Mar 5, 2007)

*a good source for detailed camera reviews*

In making your choice, you probably want to review the advantages and disadvantages of various models that you are considering. 

Below is a link to a site that has the most detailed reviews: 


Digital Camera Reviews and News: Digital Photography Review: Forums, Glossary, FAQ


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## meall (Aug 15, 2007)

I personally make the move with a Nikon D60, and it was a great choice. I recommend it highly. Its only problem is to support only AF-S lens type, so that is limiting in some cases, but normally it is a problem only on highly priced lens...


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## kevs~just kevs (Mar 21, 2005)

This is really tempting:

from craigslist

Canon Digital Rebel SLR - $250 (Scarboro)
Condition: used 

Original Digital Rebel For Sale. Includes original packaging 
Canon EF 22-55mm f/4-5.6 USM Lens included 
Features 
6.3 Megapixel CMOS Sensor and Canon's exclusive DiGiC Image Processor 
High-speed, wide-area 7-point AF with superimposed focusing points. 
12 shooting modes including 6 PIC (Programmed Image Control) modes. 
Compact and lightweight body with ergonomic design control layout. 
Direct Print capability with PictBridge compatible printers plus Exif Print and DPOF 1.1 support 
Compatible with more than 50 EF Lenses, EF-S Lens and most EX series Speedlites 


At that price I could even buy my wife her own P&S and have the slr to play with myself!

Thoughts on this camera and the price???


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## spitfire1945 (May 17, 2008)

kevs~just kevs said:


> This is really tempting:
> 
> from craigslist
> 
> ...


Get the XTi if you want a rebel in that price range. IMHO rebel version 1 was a pretty bad camera. Please no.


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## kevs~just kevs (Mar 21, 2005)

Really? OK good to know, Thanks spitfire...

what about the 300D model?


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## spitfire1945 (May 17, 2008)

kevs~just kevs said:


> Really? OK good to know, Thanks spitfire...
> 
> what about the 300D model?


Depends.. how much?


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## kevs~just kevs (Mar 21, 2005)

spitfire1945 said:


> Depends.. how much?


Asking price is $220 no lens included...


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

- Post deleted. Confused your camera's model with another...


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## spitfire1945 (May 17, 2008)

Lars said:


> - Post deleted. Confused your camera's model with another...


Confused the Nikon D300 with the Canon EOS 300D  ?

As for that price for the body. I believe that is decent but make sure you have a lens for it ready to test it on location because sometimes these cameras age and they break. It is a 2003 model so providing it had its 3 yr manufacturer's warranty on it you won't be able to do much in 2008.


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## Shrek_Toronto (May 30, 2007)

with all the latest DSLR Nikon is offering now, i'd strongly recommended getting a Nikon camera!

D60 is a very good choice for entry level DSLR!

I want a D700!!


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## Carl (Jun 7, 2003)

kps said:


> That's news to me...
> 
> History of the single-lens reflex camera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The Pentaprism allowed eye level SLR viewing, hence the name Pentax. The first eye level SLR. Don't believe everything you see in Wikipedia.:lmao:

This thread proves my original point though. You can't find objective advice because people become attached to a brand name. Do your own research.


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## jfpoole (Sep 26, 2002)

CubaMark said:


> Interesting... I've had mine for almost a year now (the previous, S3 IS model, which is marginally different) and have found it to be an excellent camera. My only complaint is the inability to find the wide-angle lens here in Mexico...


I wouldn't be surprised if the S5 IS wasn't a great camera despite the fact that the S3 IS was a great camera; Canon's gotten into the habit of screwing up their P&S upgrades.

Look at the Powershot G series; the G5 was a great little camera while virtually no one liked its successor, the G7. The latest, the G9, is okay but I really regret getting rid of my G5 when I moved to a DSLR.

ANYWAY, back to the point of the thread, I'd strongly recommend going with either a Canon or Nikon DSLR if for no other reason than lenses for both are far more common than for other DSLRs:



> Before you consider buying anything other than Canon or Nikon, remember that a 300/2.8 telephoto lens, the standard tool of sports and wildlife photographers, will cost around $4500 to buy and $50 to rent for a weekend. You can rent lenses for Canon and Nikon, or a backup body, in any larger city.


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## kevs~just kevs (Mar 21, 2005)

Carl said:


> This thread proves my original point though. You can't find objective advice because people become attached to a brand name. Do your own research.


True, but in the very least I now have a starting point with several models to look at. And the review sites posted have been very informative for me.

Thanks again for all the replies.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

Carl said:


> The Pentaprism allowed eye level SLR viewing, hence the name Pentax. The first eye level SLR. Don't believe everything you see in Wikipedia.:lmao:


Oh, and I should rather believe you. Now that's funny.


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## milhaus (Jun 1, 2004)

If I were buying my first DSLR and budget conscious, I'd run over to the Sony A200. $469 for the body and 18-70mm kit and all these +s:

1) In body stabilization
2) Dust cleaner
3) 2.7" LCD
4) Takes old minolta lenses - a large enough collection for any beginner - the only problem here is that with all the people buying Sonys, the prices on eBay are getting pushed up. 
5) Great ergonomics - better fit for my hand than any Nikon or Canon, and well designed for the beginner
6) Excellent reviews across the board, and that was at the $700 initial price point

The Canon XTi (soon to be XS) and Nikon D60 are at least $250 more for the kit, and don't have all of those features, though they are also great cameras. Blow the extra cash on some nice glass.


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## kevs~just kevs (Mar 21, 2005)

milhaus said:


> If I were buying my first DSLR and budget conscious, I'd run over to the Sony A200. $469 for the body and 18-70mm kit and all these +s:
> 
> 1) In body stabilization
> 2) Dust cleaner
> ...


Nice, where have you seen it for $469? I've only seen it at $549...


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## milhaus (Jun 1, 2004)

kevs~just kevs said:


> Nice, where have you seen it for $469? I've only seen it at $549...


I just bought it at Blacks for $469.99. Their current price is higher, $499, but just mention that you know it was on sale for that much last week, or get them to price match Aden Camera.


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## Carl (Jun 7, 2003)

kps said:


> Oh, and I should rather believe you. Now that's funny.


Seriously, Wikipedia is an elitist club of "know-it-alls" that have been known to edit facts to suit themselves. The fact that Pentax invented what we know as the SLR today doesn't change because of some website. You really shouldn't believe me, or get your information from threads like this either.

People seem to eager to believe the first result in a search engine or take advice from anonymous posters. I mean, how do we even know any of these people can even take a decent picture? Maybe they are a bunch of posers that think carrying a brand name on a strap makes them look like a photographer. 

It still doesn't change facts though.


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

The Source at Circuit City has a unbelievable clearance deal on the Olympus SP-500 Ultra Zoom camera. It's a super zoom compact camera. The best thing about it is not so much the huge zoom range at the high end but the 28mm wide capability.

The Source By Circuit City : 6.0 - 7.9 megapixels - OLYMPUS SP-550 ULTRA-ZOOM 7MP DIGITAL CAMERA

$199.96

I regretted buying my Canon G9 a month ago after seeing the Olympus on sale. The only problem with it is the fact that it takes xD cards. They are expensive and only made by Olympus and Fuji. If you do buy an xD card, make sure it's a M+ or H spec. Most of the ones on shelves are not.


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## kevs~just kevs (Mar 21, 2005)

hhk said:


> The Source at Circuit City has a unbelievable clearance deal on the Olympus SP-500 Ultra Zoom camera. It's a super zoom compact camera. The best thing about it is not so much the huge zoom range at the high end but the 28mm wide capability.
> 
> The Source By Circuit City : 6.0 - 7.9 megapixels - OLYMPUS SP-550 ULTRA-ZOOM 7MP DIGITAL CAMERA
> 
> ...


I will have a look at that one for sure! I'm leaning more towards a SZ then a dslr... I'm not sure I can live without a movie mode and plunking down another few bills for a camcorder isn't anoption for me. Thanks for the headsup! How do you like the G9 BTW???


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

kevs~just kevs said:


> I will have a look at that one for sure! I'm leaning more towards a SZ then a dslr... I'm not sure I can live without a movie mode and plunking down another few bills for a camcorder isn't anoption for me. Thanks for the headsup! How do you like the G9 BTW???


The G9 is okay but has its faults. The worst is, continuous shooting mode is very slow - 2 seconds between frames. I've never owned a digital camera with such a slow frame rate, even the cheapest one. Also, any ISO setting above 200 is useless. The camera has a cool ISO knob that allows you to quickly change the sensitivity. I thought that was a great feature until I realized that 80% of the settings are useless.


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## Kami (Jul 29, 2002)

kevs~just kevs said:


> I will have a look at that one for sure! I'm leaning more towards a SZ then a dslr... I'm not sure I can live without a movie mode and plunking down another few bills for a camcorder isn't anoption for me. Thanks for the headsup! How do you like the G9 BTW???


If you're leaning towards a superzoom with movie mode rather than a dSLR then you may want to consider a Canon TX-1. This camera has a 7 MP sensor, 10x optical zoom, optical image stabilizer, HD movie mode, and SD card in a small but somewhat awkward vertical orientation. The placement of the shutter release and zoom buttons take some getting used to but once you get the hang of it, you're good to go. The screen is a little small versus other super zooms although it is tilt and swivel. 

I've just started to use one so I can't give a definitive thumbs up or down on the camera. Its got a few "quirks" but people who own one have good things to say about it (read through the Canon Talk forum on dpreview or the small compact digitals forum on photography-on-the.net ). Good luck in your search


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## jfpoole (Sep 26, 2002)

Carl said:


> Seriously, Wikipedia is an elitist club of "know-it-alls" that have been known to edit facts to suit themselves. The fact that Pentax invented what we know as the SLR today doesn't change because of some website. You really shouldn't believe me, or get your information from threads like this either.


While I (like most folks) are well aware of the problems surrounding Wikipedia's model, personally I'll trust Wikipedia long before I'll trust someone statings facts without stating sources on an internet forum.


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## kevs~just kevs (Mar 21, 2005)

hhk said:


> The Source at Circuit City has a unbelievable clearance deal on the Olympus SP-500 Ultra Zoom camera. It's a super zoom compact camera. The best thing about it is not so much the huge zoom range at the high end but the 28mm wide capability.
> 
> The Source By Circuit City : 6.0 - 7.9 megapixels - OLYMPUS SP-550 ULTRA-ZOOM 7MP DIGITAL CAMERA
> 
> ...


Looks like they are all out 

Has anyone used the Panasonic DMC-FZ series cameras?


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

I've a (comparatively ancient) FZ20, which I still use in addition to my Nikon D50. The FZ20 is a great camera. You could try looking at one of its successors, the FZ18. 

The Nikon Coolpix P80 is in the same ultra-zoom genre, and somewhat less expensive than the FZ18, but it's very new and hasn't been fully reviewed yet. I've seen some great P80 images posted here & there and I'd consider getting one, or an FZ18, if I were looking for an ultra-zoom bridge camera right now.


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## yeeeha (Feb 16, 2007)

*Astrophotography with DSLR*

Here is my 2-cent comment:

If you are interested in simple astrophotography with a tripod, you need to be able to leave the camera shutter open for a long exposure. Some compact (i.e. point-and-shoot) and SLR-like cameras allow you to open the shutter up to a minute long. With a DSLR, you can open the shutter however long you want until you terminate the exposure.

What can a camera capture in 60 seconds? It depends on the ISO speed setting. Since we are dealing with faint lights (much lower photon counts), if you set the camera to a high ISO setting to increase its sensitivity -- say ISO 800 or 1600 (intermediate ISO 1000 and 1250 with some Nikon models) -- the camera would definitely capture the Milky Way from a dark location.

But here comes the noise issue. As you crank up the ISO sensitivity, there will be more noise on the image. This is particularly noticeable when you take pictures at a low light level.

A DSLR that uses a CMOS imaging sensor, such as all Canon DSLRs, produces less noise than a DSLR that uses a CCD imaging sensor, as in most DSLRs. I have seen it first hand. When my friend and I go stargazing and we both take a picture of the same part of the sky, his picture from the Canon 20D has less noise than my picture from the Nikon D70. The Canon 20D uses a CMOS sensor whereas the Nikon D70 uses a CCD sensor.

I took the attached image in Britt, Ontario this past February (Britt is a little town about halfway between Parry Sound and Sudbury, and is also the site of the Environment Canada weather radar WBI). It is a 20-second exposure at ISO 1600, f/2.8 at 17mm. Look at the top window frame, you can see the noise as tiny grey and colour specks. I had put this image through a noise reduction software. I could remove more noise from the image, but the image would lose more resolution.

Let's say if you want to take a picture of a crescent Moon and planets in the western twilight sky after sunset, then there won't be a big difference in the image quality whether the camera uses a CMOS or CCD sensor.

So, if you are serious about getting a decent astrophoto with less noise, a CMOS DSLR is a better choice.

Nikon only starts to use CMOS sensors in its DSLRs recently. But the prices of these cameras are way more expensive than its CCD DSLRs. I am drooling over the latest Nikon D700 CMOS DSLR, but I can't afford to buy one (over $3000 camera body only).

Just in case people wonder why I didn't leave the camera shutter open longer for the "Window to the Universe" image ... if I leave the shutter open longer than 20 seconds at this wide angle setting, the stars would no longer appear as points but end up as tiny trails. My camera tripod isn't a telescope tripod that can track stars. Without tracking, stars would move across the camera field of view due to the rotation of the Earth.


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## kevs~just kevs (Mar 21, 2005)

Very informative yeeeha, thanks for your input!

I have seen some reviews stating that some super or ultra zoom p&s can take exposures up to 8 Minutes like in the Olympus here:
DCRP Review: Olympus SP-550 Ultra Zoom

"You pick the aperture and shutter speed. Shutter speed range expands to 15 - 1/2000 sec; a bulb mode lets you take exposures as long as 8 minutes"

I think that might be suffiecient to get a shot of the stars, but i've never used one so I can't know for sure...



yeeeha said:


> Here is my 2-cent comment:
> 
> If you are interested in simple astrophotography with a tripod, you need to be able to leave the camera shutter open for a long exposure. Some compact (i.e. point-and-shoot) and SLR-like cameras allow you to open the shutter up to a minute long. With a DSLR, you can open the shutter however long you want until you terminate the exposure.


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## yeeeha (Feb 16, 2007)

kevs~just kevs said:


> I have seen some reviews stating that some super or ultra zoom p&s can take exposures up to 8 Minutes like in the Olympus here:
> DCRP Review: Olympus SP-550 Ultra Zoom


I don't have any experience with Olympus digicams so I can't say much about them. I am not sure if you can find the Olympus SP-550. There is the SP-560 UZ with 8 megapixels (MP) and a 27-486mm 18X zoom. The next one in the series is the SP-570 UZ with 10MP and a 26-520mm 20X zoom. Both cameras are under $500.

I want to raise some questions and observations, and most of them are related to daytime photography. These are issues that I would think about if I were to upgrade to a new digital camera.

For all these Olympus SLR-like digicams, how can anyone hold the camera steady if the lens is extended to almost 500mm; especially when these cameras are so light? A tripod is almost a must in this telephoto setting. But dragging a tripod everywhere isn't a fun thing. Without using a tripod, the usefulness of zooming the lens to over 300mm is significantly reduced.

Almost no compact and SLR-like digicam has an acceptable noise level at ISO 400 and higher. This is not the case with DSLRs. Most DSLRs produce acceptable noise level at ISO 800. The Milky Way image that I posted has noise. But try to take the same shot with a SLR-like digicam at ISO 1600, the image would be much noisier.

Then there is the megapixel myth. For compact and SLR-like digicams, more pixels does not equate to better images. In fact the higher the number of pixels, the more chance of getting more noise in the image. See the excellent explanation in Beyond Megapixels - Part I. Although the article came out in 2004, the explanation is still valid. You don't have to read Part II. I didn't read the second part thoroughly, but it looks at the issue of the weight of the equipment. Obviously a DSLR plus a lens is much heavier than a compact or SLR-like digicam. While a DSLR takes higher quality images, do you want to drag a few pounds of photographic gear vs. under a pound for a SLR-like digicam whenever you go on an imaging session?

If you settles on a compact and SLR-like digicam, you want to check how good the LCD display is. Is the display bright enough and with a good resolution? You would most likely rely on the LCD to frame your shots, so a good quality LCD makes life easier.

If you go for a DSLR, you would lose the video imaging capability.

Recently my friend were in a similar situation. He accidentally broke the LCD display on his former Panasonic compact digicam. He mentioned that he would like to get into video imaging, macro imaging, and occasional low-light level imaging that includes simple astrophotography.

My friend looked into a DSLR. Ultimately he didn't go for this option due to the higher cost of investment and weight. He didn't get a SLR-like digicam because it wasn't small enough that he could fit the camera into his shirt or jacket pocket.

He settled on the Panasonic TZ-5 compact digicam. It takes very good quality pictures for a compact digicam and has good macro capability. My friend also got a decent Iridium satellite flare image (unfortunately I deleted the image so I can't post it here). The video imaging capability is very good. The camera can zoom in the video mode. I have never seen a compact or SLR-like digicam that allows the user to zoom while taking a video.

Enough of my blah, blah, blah. I am not a professional photographer, just an individual who is interested in photography and I am still learning how to take pictures after all these years.


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