# Breed Specific Ban



## mikeguil (Apr 3, 2007)

With the election coming up soon... how do you feel about the Breed Specific Ban of pit-bull 'type' dogs by the Ontario Liberals?

Are the dogs bad or is it the owners?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I believe that harder punishment needs to go to owners of dogs who bite or cause injury to humans. Breed-specific bans are nonsensical.


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

I'll remember that when I stock my fishpond with barracuda.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

You'll be famous for getting a tropical fish to survive in Canadian waters, that's for sure.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Macfury said:


> I believe that harder punishment needs to go to owners of dogs who bite or cause injury to humans. *Breed-specific bans are nonsensical*.


Yes they are. It's quite ridiculous when some decide for you what kind and how many animals you can have.
Where I live, there is a ban on certain dogs but not pit-bulls (and I live in a semi-rural area). Cats and dogs are limited to two and we are not allowed to display sex-toys in our house windows.

These PC laws are just plain stupid.


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## polywog (Aug 9, 2007)

CanadaRAM said:


> I'll remember that when I stock my fishpond with barracuda.


I'd rather see legislature banning stocking fishponds with muscle cars. How could you!

It's an interesting anecdote though... Barracuda attacks happen very, very infrequently, even fewer of those happened out of water. I don't think there have been any fatal barracuda attacks. I would be a lot more concerned if you brought you barracuda to a public pool, regardless of the remote possibility of an attack. Which, to tie it back to pit-bulls - I would much rather see strict controls on where and how pit-bulls are housed and cared for.


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## Digital_Gary (Sep 18, 2003)

There was a huge thread on this topic when the ban went through. A lot of good points on both sides. 

I still believe it makes more sense to punish the owners rather than the breed. In a few years the people who irresponsibly owned pitbulls will have moved on to the next "Bad Boy" dog and people will be screaming to ban them. There are many other dogs out there that can inflict just as much damage as a pitty. 

Until laws are put in place to make people more responsible for their actions (or lack of action) we will never stop dog attacks.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

This seems more like a government response to the demands of parents and others, and medical professionals and police, on the receiving end of the damage these animals have inflicted. It's too late to blame the dog owners after children have been mutilated.


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## Digital_Gary (Sep 18, 2003)

Exactly the point. If something is not done to correct the problem, the problem will continue. The only difference is the people that used to use pitbulls as weapons will now start using other dogs. Why would they stop? They clearly don't care about the animals. When their dog gets taken away and destroyed, they get a slap on the wrist and they go get a new one. 

Can't get a pitty anymore, oh well. How about one of these instead...


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## Digital_Gary (Sep 18, 2003)

Also, found this while looking for pics for the post above. Good idea for people to look at and teach their themselves and their children about dog language.

http://www.doggonesafe.com/dog communication sheet copy.pdf


Tons more info on the main page..

Doggone Safe - A Non-Profit resource of dog bite prevention - education programs for schools, parents and workers, diponible en francais


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

the problem stems both from the owners and the people breeding these dogs. Let's be clear, that "pit bull" is not a breed. 2 breeds which are labeled "pit bulls" are the American Staffordshire terrier and the Staffordshire bull terrier. These are terriers, and like all dogs were used for work. Reputable breeders who breed registered dogs control lineage, temperament, quality of animal, etc. and would never continue a line that had menacing traits. By nature, these are not agressive dogs and do well with small children. 

Others who simply breed for money or to have aggressive dogs do not care about such things and this leads to problems.Lineages of dogs used for pit fighting are where the problems lied. A reputable breeder would never breed for fighting.

People who want aggressive dogs are buying from aggressive lines...is it possible to stop this? I don't know...I would think it would be next to impossible...


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## Digital_Gary (Sep 18, 2003)

> Let's be clear, that "pit bull" is not a breed


The other issue I have with the ban. It is not nearly specific enough. A lot of bylaw officers that are enforcing the ban don't even know what a pitbull is. The ban is very vague and includes any dog resembling a pitbull. That is very subjective. 

A lot of people think my boxer is a pit. I have seriously considered muzzling him just to be on the safe side. Problem is, he is 5 years old now and I know he would not like wearing a muzzle now. 

It is sad. There is a yellow lab in my area that has attacked 4 dogs that I know of. Who knows how many others. I can't believe it hasn't been taken away from the owners. They can't control it but because it's a lab, people don't complain about it. If my dog did what this lab did, he would have been taken from me a long time ago.


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## milhaus (Jun 1, 2004)

Walk into Parkdale and you'll find out how well the pitbull ban is being enforced. 

Really, it's a non issue, except for those responsible owners, with friendly pitbulls who are no longer allowed off leash and must wear muzzles. Oh, and BTW, guess what the best way to turn a friendly dog into an aggressive, dangerous dog is? Yup, avoid socializing it . . .


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

My English Bull Terrier is a sweetie, but I get lots of angry people insisting he's a pit bull as well.


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## Digital_Gary (Sep 18, 2003)

I bet you do 

I had one customer come in one day and say....

"Is that one of those dogs I hate?"

I asked him what dog he was talking about and he said..

"You know, one of those mean dogs that are banned"

I had a hard time not laughing at him as I found this to be one of the most ignorant things I had ever heard. 

Does he look mean??


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Gary: I've met your dog and he's an absolute gentleman.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Gary and his dog walked right by me once; nary a hello. I blame the cute dog. : )


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## Digital_Gary (Sep 18, 2003)

HowEver said:


> Gary and his dog walked right by me once; nary a hello. I blame the cute dog. : )


When was that? You obviously didn't introduce yourself 

He can be a handful on walks so I am usually pretty focused.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Digital_Gary said:


> When was that? You obviously didn't introduce yourself
> 
> He can be a handful on walks so I am usually pretty focused.


It was the end of the day one day, I guess a few years ago, and someone was already helping me (the Macally enclosure serves me well to this day). I admit to some reticence. I actually only knew it was you because I had heard about the dog before.


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## duosonic (Jan 7, 2004)

Most dogs will develop personalities that demonstrate, to some degree, the amount of care and training their owners give them - however, some breeds have certain inbred personality traits and there is no 100% guarantee that good training will extinguish all bad behaviour.

Rather than banning certain breeds, I would like to see dog owners required to complete obedience training with their dogs and post a bond "guaranteeing" that the dog's & owner's behaviour will not be a public danger or nuisance (yes, this would include scooping after pooping; incessant barking; and roaming free). Any dog that bites a human or another dog should (probably) be muzzled and/or restricted from public appearance, with meaningfully huge fines to the owners.

Having said this, let me also say I have worked as a veterinary assistant, as a dog walker, have some training also in working with horses – and have had my cat attacked in my own yard by a frigging dog that was illegally off leash & extremely ill behaved. So, am I biased? - yes. Am I totally ignorant? - no. Am I fed up with badly trained and controlled dogs? - yes!!!!


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

All dogs should be muzzled in public. Period.

It doesn't matter breed.

Banning certain breeds doesn't make sense.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

guytoronto said:


> All dogs should be muzzled in public. Period.
> 
> It doesn't matter breed.
> 
> Banning certain breeds doesn't make sense.


Agreed.

Now what about my three neighbours' five cats that $hit in my garden all summer long?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

The post above would not show in the menu, so I am going to try bumping it. This really sucks. ehMac used to be so good. Here goes . . .

EDIT: Yep that finally did it.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

guytoronto said:


> *All dogs should be muzzled in public*. Period.
> 
> It doesn't matter breed.
> 
> Banning certain breeds doesn't make sense.


I feel the same way about moonbats, but I have reason.
What's your reasoning for dog?


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## hUssain (Aug 10, 2007)

it's all the owners fault, if you can't control your animal then you shouldn't have one, they should have their non-existing dog owner licenses removed.


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## SoyMac (Apr 16, 2005)

Banning dog breeds: Disagree.
Ban Cats: Agree.


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

I don't agree with the muzzling of all dogs in public. Why punish dogs because of idiot owners...I say the owners put the muzzles on...


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## SoyMac (Apr 16, 2005)

Come to think of it, RunTheWorldOnMac, I know many people who should be muzzled, but very few dogs who deserve same.


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## Chantal (Sep 14, 2007)

I totally agree with you there. All dog owners should have to take their dog to obedience training and successfully complete the course. Small dogs included. The problem is not individual breeds, but rather the owners who don't take the time to understand the breed, their individual dog, and their responsibilities.

I also think that the BSL makes things worse. "Pit bulls" will no longer get proper socialization and will become more likely to bite and have other social problems. 

- Chantal



duosonic said:


> Rather than banning certain breeds, I would like to see dog owners required to complete obedience training with their dogs and post a bond "guaranteeing" that the dog's & owner's behaviour will not be a public danger or nuisance (yes, this would include scooping after pooping; incessant barking; and roaming free). Any dog that bites a human or another dog should (probably) be muzzled and/or restricted from public appearance, with meaningfully huge fines to the owners.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Chantal said:


> I totally agree with you there. All dog owners should have to take their dog to obedience training and successfully complete the course. Small dogs included. The problem is not individual breeds, but rather the owners who don't take the time to understand the breed, their individual dog, and their responsibilities.
> 
> I also think that the BSL makes things worse. "Pit bulls" will no longer get proper socialization and will become more likely to bite and have other social problems.
> 
> - Chantal


Welcome to ehMac!

What if the dog (or owner) fails obedience training?


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## Brainstrained (Jan 15, 2002)

As hUssain points out requiring dog owners to train their dogs is no more enforceable than requiring dog owners to buy licenses for their dogs.

Banning specific breeds doesn't seem fair, certainly not to the breed or to responsible owners, but it does have ease of enforcement going for it.

Eventually we'll see if it hold up in court, I doubt it will.


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## Chantal (Sep 14, 2007)

It's unfortunate, but the owner may need to be euthanized if that happens.

beejacon 

- Chantal



HowEver said:


> Welcome to ehMac!
> 
> What if the dog (or owner) fails obedience training?


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

I saw somebody with a wolf-dog recently. It's shape was very noticeable as not dog-like and seeing it almost instantly put me a little on edge (normally I have no problem with dogs). It could also be described as the most unusually powerful and intimidating looking husky that I had ever seen. 

It was adorable but clearly did not possess abundant, "doggy" characteristics. I asked the guy and he said that it was 3/4 wolf. I cannot verify the accuracy of his claim because the wolf-dog was not carrying any id and I did not have my DNA analysis kit with me. 

I have no problem with that 'dog' being legal. If it causes problems, throw the owner in jail. The notion of preventative laws (pseudo Minority Report, philosophically) needs to be carefully considered for a heck of a lot more than just prevention of harm. "For the children" is not enough reason to child-proof society.

A more difficult issue: Outside of humanitarian/conservation of wildlife concerns, what criteria should be used to allow and disallow pets? If a wolf-dog is allowed, how about a lynx? Penguin? 

It's all well and good to talk about cats and dogs but with interbreeding or the usual human pursuit for that exotic new toy, it can get more complex.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Beej said:


> A more difficult issue: Outside of humanitarian/conservation of wildlife concerns, what criteria should be used to allow and disallow pets? If a wolf-dog is allowed, how about a lynx? Penguin?


Oh no! Not the dreaded "Pecker Penguin?"


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

SINC said:


> Oh no! Not the dreaded "Pecker Penguin?"


Is it legal to have a pet penguin? If so, is it humane to make it wear a bow tie? 

I've seen dog and cat owners do worse to their pets.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)




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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

SINC said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Now what about my three neighbours' five cats that $hit in my garden all summer long?


Diapers.


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