# We thought Apple was bad... car companies? (CAD vs USD)



## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

I scratch my head when I try to figure out these prices... I'll take VW as an example because they seem to have the worst ratio

Canadian Jetta -- $23475CAD
Canadian City Jetta (similarily equipped) -- $19225CAD
American Jetta - $16990USD

The only explanation I heard was that the Americans get Mexican built Jettas, and our Jettas are German built and City Jettas are Mexican built.

So... why is our smaller, previous generation City Jetta more expensive than a full size Jetta over there?

So this is around a 45% price difference here, and roughly 25% average with all the other companies.

I remember this was discussed before, that we're completely different markets and the governments have different tariffs and there's really nothing we can do but bite and buy. I'm in the market for a new car come March and the refreshed City Jetta model is highest on my list but it seems a bit unreasonable the price difference, although the City Jetta's price is very much in line with the Corolla, the 3, Sentra, Civic, Cobalt. G5, and Focus which means I really shouldn't complain that much. 

Hm.

Side note, if the dealer claims there isn't much room to play with the price since they only make $300 margin on the base model City... am I wrong to believe that they're lying?


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

dona83 said:


> I scratch my head when I try to figure out these prices... I'll take VW as an example because they seem to have the worst ratio
> 
> Canadian Jetta -- $23475CAD
> Canadian City Jetta (similarily equipped) -- $19225CAD
> ...


How can you tell when a car salesman is lying? Their lips are moving.
 

Just think about it.
selling a $20K item to only make $300?
that's just nuts

there are sneaky ways that dealers make money on cars, such as rebates and volume discounts

these are all ways to show the customer "their invoice" and cry the blues about how little they are making

take a look at the overhead of a dealership
the building, the inventory, the staff, all for $300 per car?

it's about as big a lie as WTC 7 falling down due to fire


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## Jeepdude (Mar 3, 2005)

Everything I've read indicated that the Jettas we receive in North America are Mexican built...


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## Paul O'Keefe (Jun 3, 2005)

Consumer Reports rates used VWs of numerous models as being lemons... they specifically cite the Mexican made models. The German model had far less problems and higher resale values.


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## imactheknife (Aug 7, 2003)

any mexican built VW is crap. My Step dad has had so many problems with his jettas built in Mexico that he has returned both and got one straight from Germany. The electrical is the mexican ones are horrible.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> How can you tell when a car salesman is lying?
> Just think about it.
> selling a $20K item to only make $300?
> that's just nuts
> ...


I know, crazy, eh?

Then again, an Apple dealer selling a Mac mini for $649 but just keeping $40-$50 for themselves? "That's just nuts." Yes, it is. Unfortunately, it is a reality. Granted, car dealers aren't as bad off as Apple dealers, but depending on the dealer and the kind of car they're selling, they may not make as much profit as we might think.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

dona83 said:


> I scratch my head when I try to figure out these prices... I'll take VW as an example because they seem to have the worst ratio
> 
> Canadian Jetta -- $23475CAD
> Canadian City Jetta (similarily equipped) -- $19225CAD
> ...


Why not bring in a car from the US yourself? Although I have not done this myself (and am not currently in the market for a car), I do know a couple of people who have done this with both new and used cars, and although there are some minor hassles involved the savings can be significant - especially on fully loaded cars that can be quite expensive here.

There is lots of information on importing cars into canada, http://www.riv.ca/ is a good place to start.

If you do get a new car in Canada, it might be a good time to consider leasing rather than buying if you are planning to keep the car less than five years or so - I can't see the current arbitrage opportunity with US cars lasting forever, and when the price of new cars in Canada comes down the resale value on used cars will likely plummet - even on models that have traditionally had a high resale value. Of course if you are planning to keep the car and run it into the ground resale value is of no concern to you.


dona83 said:


> Side note, if the dealer claims there isn't much room to play with the price since they only make $300 margin on the base model City... am I wrong to believe that they're lying?


I don't think dealers make that much money on new car sales - especially on an entry level model like a City Jetta. The $300 figure wouldn't surprise me, although they have ways to bring that up like factory to dealer incentives, admin fees, undercoating, etc. I think that dealers make more money on used cars than new in a lot of cases, and that parts and service can be more profitable than new car sales as well.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

MasterBlaster said:


> I would not hesitate to buy a German made VW. Most stuff from the Fatherland is very well made.
> ...


Your comments and pictures reminded me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2bycZa4zKY old YouTube clip that was making the rounds a while back.


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## crunchiespg (Oct 24, 2007)

well if you think that is bad have you looked at the VW GTI? im looking to buy one i the next few months. however at $32,000CAD its not going to happen in Canada whilst the same car (made in Germany for both) is selling for $23,000USD (about $21,500 CAD)

i emailed the dealer about it, and they said the usual rubbish, no plans etc etc.. however ive noticed a few dealers in Cochrane AB have signs up saying US dollar price reductions..

so unless VW Canada get a grip ill be importing mine from the US. i mean how can they justify approx 33% more for the same car? in fact the Canadian one msut cost less to make, as Germany use KMH clocks, so they dont even have to change the spec as much to suit Canada as they do the USA.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

The car deals are in a similar position as to what I laid out in another thread...the US price is too low, ( the Canadian may also be too high but that's a different scenario )

Personally for vehicles I'd make it clear to the dealers and head office why you are not buying in Canada - pretend you are boycotting even if you intend to buy in the US - at least the message gets across.

Maybe import is the way to go as you ARE taking advantage of the US dollar collapse on a personal scale just the way US assets are being grabbed on the macro level.


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

OK, so I'm going to be in the market for a Mini Van t replace the piece of s**t Mazda I am saddled with.

After running through the build options from Honda.com vs. Honda.ca

Honda.ca $56,703

Honda.com $40,645

For the EXACT same vehicle, and that is not including the exchange rate. If the dollar goes up to 1.10 then that vehicle in the us 36K if it goes up to 1.20 than I'm looking at 32K.

Right now there is a difference of $16, 000 where would you go to buy the same vehicle?


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

I considered that maybe the American pricing was too low due to the competitive nature of the car market down there. Canadian automobile prices seem in line with everywhere else except the states. I heard they're also oversaturated with used cars down there as well which is impacting my ability to sell my Corolla in preparation.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Yep - completely wrong headed.

a) complain to Honda - local and head office Canada.

b) buy it in the US if you can ( you will maybe get 1.06 exchange just now )

Once more - you at a firesale for US gear....not so much over priced Canadian - just view it that way and go for it.


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## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

American Toyota Highlander Hybrid - 35,274US (new, found on autotrader.com)
Canadian Toyota Highlander Hybrid - 44,850CDN (new, found on autotrader.ca)
Exchange in with an estimated 1.04 - 46,644US

Amount Canadians are getting screwed - 11,370US or 10,933CDN


A friend of mine is considering buying a this model and is really thinking about the cross-border thing. I'll have to look into the links provided earlier but does anyone have first-hand experience with this type of purchase. (I mean this isn't your typical laptop grab over the border).


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

da_jonesy said:


> After running through the build options from Honda.com vs. Honda.ca
> 
> Honda.ca $56,703
> 
> Honda.com $40,645


A coworker was looking at bringing in a grey market MDX, and has found that Honda is one of the worst in terms of the company throwing up roadblocks to bringing their cars in.

They don't allow their US dealers to sell to Canadians, they refuse to honour warranty on grey market vehicles, and now they have managed to get some of their 2008 models on the riv.ca "inadmissible" list.

You might be best off to find a broker who can get you a leftover 2007 model, or look look for a used 2006 or 2007 model. If the lack of a warranty bothers you you could always buy an aftermarket warranty for ~$2000 - but then again, you are probably looking at a Honda because you figure you won't need the warranty...


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

dona83 said:


> I considered that maybe the American pricing was too low due to the competitive nature of the car market down there. Canadian automobile prices seem in line with everywhere else except the states.


Not only is the market more competitive, it is also slowing down as everything gets sucked into the downdraft from the real estate meltdown and subprime mortgage mess.


dona83 said:


> I heard they're also oversaturated with used cars down there as well which is impacting my ability to sell my Corolla in preparation.


We are already starting to see some signs of new car prices adjusting to the new value of the Canadian dollar. Although I doubt the automakers will close the gap completely I expect this will have a big impact on the resale value of used cars, even for cars like Toyota and Honda that traditionally have a high resale value.

If you buy a new car for $30,000 and then the price drops to $24,000 (either through price adjustments, incentives, or some combination of the two) your used car will obviously worth a fair bit less than it would be otherwise.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> Originally Posted by dona83
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now we're getting somewhere......many sectors in the US are in a real bind - slowing markets, rising import costs.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Ok I'm going in to offer $21245 including Freight+PDI on the City Jetta, which is basically the cost of a similarily equipped Mazda 3 at $20795 + $450 for Electronic Stability Control (which apparently has been proven to reduce single vehicle crashes by 40%). I'm basically asking for $450 off. We'll see what comes out of that. Is it reasonable?


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

dona83 said:


> Ok I'm going in to offer $21245 including Freight+PDI on the City Jetta, which is basically the cost of a similarily equipped Mazda 3 at $20795 + $450 for Electronic Stability Control (which apparently has been proven to reduce single vehicle crashes by 40%). I'm basically asking for $450 off. We'll see what comes out of that. Is it reasonable?


I missed why you weren't going to the US and paying $17K?

(Many, many, many, have gone before you:
Auto - WOW ---- New cars from US up to 30% cheaper (cost to import under $200) - RedFlagDeals.com Forums )


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

1. I need to finance to buy my car.
2. They don't have the City Jetta in the US, only the new Jetta. I like the City Jetta better. The new Jetta looks like a rip off of the Corolla.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

IF you can wait I would.......let the current inventories flush out and the winter slow down season bite a bit harder.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Sounds fair... I'm not looking to get the car until the end of March anyway, just in time for spring.


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

Macified said:


> American Toyota Highlander Hybrid - 35,274US (new, found on autotrader.com)
> Canadian Toyota Highlander Hybrid - 44,850CDN (new, found on autotrader.ca)
> Exchange in with an estimated 1.04 - 46,644US
> 
> ...


I'm looking at buying this exact vehicle. If your friend wants to pool our knowledge, send me a PM with his contact info.


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## arminia (Jan 27, 2005)

crunchiespg said:


> so unless VW Canada get a grip ill be importing mine from the US. i mean how can they justify approx 33% more for the same car? .


Better check www.riv.ca. I believe the 2008 GTI is inadmissible.


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## crunchiespg (Oct 24, 2007)

arminia said:


> Better check www.riv.ca. I believe the 2008 GTI is inadmissible.


thats why i would get the 2007 one!


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Number one reason to buy VWs in Canada... American Rabbits and Jettas are Mexican built. Canadian Rabbits and Jetta are German built.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

dona83 said:


> Number one reason to buy VWs in Canada... American Rabbits and Jettas are Mexican built. Canadian Rabbits and Jetta are German built.


I don't believe this is true - if you care about such things it would be prudent to check the actual car you are looking at before you buy it.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Okay here is the scoop from what I can tell so far.

In both Canada and the US, engines are built in Mexico.

In Canada, the engines are sent to Germany, the car assembled there with German built internal components, and shipped here -- except for City Jetta and City Golf... see US notes below.

In the US, the German built internal components are sent to Mexico, the car assembled there.

Earlier Mexican built cars may have exhibited electrical problems but newer models don't seem to have as many electrical problems anymore.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

.


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

Semi-hijack as HowEver made reference to a differant thread; apparently the dealerships in the Eastern States; New Hampshire, Massechesates are allowing sale of new cars to Canada. NY dealerships for Toyoto and a few others if caught selling will lose their license.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

I'm planning to buy brand new. Some concerns about the car losing 15-25% of it's value as soon as it's bought but I plan to keep the car for a very long time. I'm hoping 16 years and 400,000km. Haha.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

We tend to buy one year old and then keep them. Kill that depreciation.
We bought a 1 year old Freestar with 60k for $12,900 - $35k new. Added an extended warranty for $1300.

Put in synthetic oil.
Our Windstar is 300k and 7 years - also running on synthetic- strong motor and trannie some mechanical issues. ( springs/shocks ).
Freestar nothing major so far.
Pretty low cost transport for the company over time.

Maybe a small diesel next. Getting fed up with transport Canada dragging it's feet on alternative small vehicles for "run about"


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

My local VW dealer started offering $2000 discounts on the New Jetta and Rabbit to $5000 on the Passat and Touareg.


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