# CBC - A Crumbling Icon?



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

A very interesting story about how Canadians view the CBC.

It would seem they could care less if it exists or not:

A Decima survey released in late August showed that 61 per cent of those polled said they felt no impact at all from the lockout, which began on Aug. 15. Only 10 per cent of 1,000 Canadians surveyed by phone from Aug. 18-21 said the dispute was "a major inconvenience." A further 27 per cent called it "a minor inconvenience."

And further:

"The people who support CBC, particularly CBC Television -- if they're not actually working for the CBC -- are part of a group of mostly central Canadian nationalists, mostly socialist nationalists, who think there is something inherently virtuous about having taxpayers pay for television."

Complete story here.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

subscription required to view article


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Sorry, did not realize that. Story is very long, but here it is:

A crumbling icon?: BAND-AID SETTLEMENT / CBC supporters are relieved the bruising lockout is finally over. But the tentative pact only puts off what many view as an inevitable day of reckoning for the public broadcaster

Alex Strachan
CanWest News Service

Sunday, October 09, 2005

Out of sight, out of mind. Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

Take your pick.

As the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation lurches toward an uncertain future, the recent tentative settlement in the seven-week lockout of 5,500 employees has not appeared to have changed anyone's mind about the role of a taxpayer-supported public broadcaster in the world's second-largest country.

If anything, positions have hardened on both sides of the cultural divide.

The past seven weeks have created a void in many Canadians' lives, public broadcasting's advocates say: The lockout underscored the need for a public television broadcaster rooted in sensitivity to Canadian culture, arising from Canadian traditions and responsive to Canadian needs.

Nonsense, say CBC-TV's detractors: The lockout merely illustrated, yet again, how superfluous and irrelevant CBC really is in the 200-channel universe. The idea that public broadcasting should, as the American essayist E.B. White once wrote, "address itself to the ideal of excellence, not the idea of acceptability," is both quaint and economically unfeasible.

For Rick Mercer, whose face has adorned numerous billboards in recent weeks in a promotional campaign for his CBC-TV show Rick Mercer Report -- with the hopeful notation "Coming Soon" below the title -- the dispute illustrated that CBC provides an invaluable service to TV viewers and radio listeners in far-flung regions of the country who don't have access to the same options as residents of major centres like Toronto, Vancouver or Edmonton.

"The reason we need a public broadcaster is because nine out of the 10 top shows are always American, and we need to have that other voice there," Mercer said. "CTV makes some fine Canadian programming. There's just not very much of it. It's not really their mandate. Whereas CBC's mandate is the exact opposite.

"If that's not there, if the Canadian voice isn't there, then -- I hate to resort to cliches -- but what does that say about the country?"

Mercer said if there is a silver lining in the dispute, it's that it compelled Canadians to once again question what public broadcasting really means to them, and its role in their lives.

"I'll defend public broadcasting to my last breath, but in no way am I saying it's perfect and that it doesn't have to constantly evolve and be closely monitored," Mercer said. "Evolution is imperative for it to survive, otherwise it will die."

Labour dispute only confirmed

CBC-TV's demise, critic says

CBC-TV is already dead, and the past seven weeks have proved it, counters Barry Cooper, managing director of the Fraser Institute's Alberta Policy Research Centre in Calgary and the author of a recent study critical of a creeping anti-American sentiment in reporting by CBC News.

"The big lesson of the past seven weeks is that the CBC does nothing like it says it does, in terms of its importance to Canadians," Cooper said.

To say the dispute proved that CBC is irrelevant in the 200-channel universe is "understating it enormously," Cooper said.

A Decima survey released in late August showed that 61 per cent of those polled said they felt no impact at all from the lockout, which began on Aug. 15. Only 10 per cent of 1,000 Canadians surveyed by phone from Aug. 18-21 said the dispute was "a major inconvenience." A further 27 per cent called it "a minor inconvenience."

CBC's supporters insist the survey was flawed, and cite the thousands of e-mails and petitions sent to Ottawa as proof that Canadians did indeed miss their CBC-TV.

Cooper remains doubtful, however.

"The people who support CBC, particularly CBC Television -- if they're not actually working for the CBC -- are part of a group of mostly central Canadian nationalists, mostly socialist nationalists, who think there is something inherently virtuous about having taxpayers pay for television," Cooper said.

"This business about Canadian content won't wash. Anything other than news is just explicit entertainment. The fact that we're subsidizing it, so that they can produce it in Toronto instead of New York or Los Angeles, seems to me to be just nationalist fraudulence."

Donna Logan, director of the University of British Columbia's Sing Tao School of Journalism and a former CBC executive, believes that despite the settlement, the root cause of the CBC dispute is like a ticking alarm clock, waiting to go off.

"I don't think much has been learned," Logan said. "Or solved, for that matter.

"This lockout was all about the core fundamental problem facing the Corporation, and that is they don't have the money to deliver the mandate that they have been given -- which is to be all things to all people in two languages, on radio, television and the Internet. This mandate has expanded, if anything, while the funds have been contracting. It's clear the government is not willing to give the Corporation more money.

"In light of that, the Corporation tried to come up with an internal solution, and the government wasn't willing to accept that either."

There's a difference between radio and television, Logan noted.

"If you're a radio listener, you don't have a lot of choice. There will be some loss in radio, but I really think it won't be significant. In any situation, when service is interrupted or not provided at the level people expect, you have to expect some erosion. The bigger loss, of course, will come in television."

Andeen Pitt, vice-president of media and business development for Vancouver-based Wasserman & Partners Advertising, notes the dispute affected CBC's news ratings, but not its entertainment programming.

CBC's ratings are traditionally focused on a small but loyal audience, Pitt said. "They're solid numbers, but they're relatively low."

Pitt noticed more of an effect last spring, when the National Hockey League lockout knocked hockey playoffs off the air. The spring playoffs are traditionally a lucrative source of ad revenue for the CBC.

For that reason, the tentative settlement's timing is no accident, Pitt believes.

"It's interesting to me that they've reached a settlement now," she said. "They're not going to be affected this coming spring the way they were earlier in the year."

Even with the dispute of the last seven weeks, ratings for CBC stalwarts like Coronation Street held firm, Pitt said.

"Cumulatively, the numbers dropped, but it wasn't earth-shaking," she said. "CBC's mandate is to provide solid Canadian content. They make an honest effort to provide good, strong Canadian content, and they provide opportunities for different voices. You see that in their on-air people, probably more so than any other broadcaster. That's what they do best."

William Fitch, general manager and media director of Calgary-based DSA Baron Communications, agreed the lockout had a minimal effect on his clients' buying habits.

"With people meter data, we're able to monitor and keep track of what's happening on a nightly basis," Fitch said. "CBC is seldom the lead station, so ad campaigns didn't feel the drop to any extent."

Fitch noted that long-term advertisers would be affected the least, in any event, as they can be compensated later in the year for ratings performances that don't match their initial projections.

The renewed debate over CBC-TV's place in the cultural mosaic has once again thrown a spotlight on the public broadcaster's strengths and weaknesses. Those strengths and weaknesses bear uncanny resemblance to those identified by U.S. TV historians William Baker and George Dessart in their seminal book Down the Tube: An Inside Account of the Failure of American Television.

Among the strengths:

- The breadth and diversity of CBC's audience. The cumulative ratings show that 80 per cent of Canadians watch public television every month. CBC-TV's audience cuts across all race, education, occupation, place of residence, income, age and gender lines.

- The extensive reach of its stations. Through its extensive network of stations, CBC-TV can reach 99 per cent of the Canadian public.

- The fervour and dedication of its most hard-core following. Several Liberal MPs have cited a large number of letters, e-mails and calls they say they received since the dispute began.

- The quality of public television programs. The Nature of Things, the fifth estate, Life & Times, The Passionate Eye, Da Vinci's Inquest, This Is Wonderland, Rick Mercer Report and This Hour Has 22 Minutes serve as cases in point, as do public television's miniseries, arts performances and one-off specials such as The Greatest Canadian, The CBC Winnipeg Comedy Festival and Diana Krall & Friends.

- Public television's company of artists and players. Some of those familiar names and faces -- Vicki Gabereau, Lloyd Robertson and Chris Cuthbert among them -- moved to the commercial networks to gain a larger audience, while others -- Steve Smith, Peter Mansbridge, David Suzuki -- have chosen to remain.

- The credibility of public television's programming for children. Unlike their commercial counterparts, public television has traditionally put the developmental needs of its child audiences before other considerations. These programs rarely attracted criticism and are almost always considered a benefit, in the way they share common values and fulfil an educational purpose.

Among the weaknesses:

- The lack of a clearly defined mission. CBC-TV is required, by mandate, to be all things to all people. And yet, despite its familiar brand and easily recognized logo, it has never managed to separate itself from the pack. "It is impossible to be all things to all people," Mercer said. "If you try to be all things to all people, you're just nothing."

- The duplication issue. The same programs may air several times a week, at different times, on both CBC and CBC-Newsworld. Journalists who work for privately owned broadcasters have long complained that different crews from various CBC programs and network divisions often turn up at the same news event.

- The continuing reliance on both commercial advertising and government funding to keep it afloat. Despite ad revenue from its sports, news and prime-time programming, CBC is still dependent on annual appropriations. As it is, the presence of ads means that, in many instances, CBC-TV is no longer easy to distinguish from its privately owned counterparts.

- The failure to maximize its internal resources. CBC-TV outsources much of its prime-time comedy and drama programming to outside, independent producers and production companies, rather than using its own staff and facilities to produce programs in-house.

- The dilemma of short-term planning. Uncertainty over CBC's financial future confines it to short-term thinking, which inhibits vision and stunts long-term growth. Short-term planning results in ad hoc solutions, which mask systemic problems and delay the inevitable.

Logan, a former regional director of CBC-British Columbia and one-time executive director of media accountability for CBC's English, French, radio and television services, fears that the settlement will turn out to be a Band-Aid solution.

SEEING SIMILARITIES TO THE NHL DISPUTE

She worries that, as eventually happened with the National Hockey League dispute, the real battle is yet to come -- despite an agreed-to cap on the number of fixed-term contract workers CBC can hire (9.5 per cent of its permanent employees).

"The government is more or less forcing both sides to patch together a settlement that is not going to solve anything, as far as I can see," Logan said. "The root cause of the problem will still be there.

"I don't think it's silly to compare with the hockey situation. The hockey scenario could well be the case, if this is not a fundamental solution. And there's nothing I've seen so far that would lead me to think that it is.

"They're simply piecing it back together for the time being, but the problem is still there. One of these years, it's going to have to be dealt with."

When asked how he would solve CBC-TV's seemingly insurmountable problems, Mercer offered a rueful laugh.

"Everyone has opinions about this," Mercer said, "but no one would ever go on record and say what they would do -- for fear of never working again."

And he's not about to break precedent.

"No," he said. "And that might be one of the problems."

© The Edmonton Journal 2005


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> CBC-TV is already dead, and the past seven weeks have proved it, counters Barry Cooper, managing director of the Fraser Institute's Alberta Policy Research Centre in Calgary and the author of a recent study critical of a creeping anti-American sentiment in reporting by CBC News.


And from Calgary too. Home of Harper's ex-pat U.S. puppet masters.
Just because the CBC isn't PRO American, doesn't make it anti-American.

A subtle point lost on Barry Cooper. Then again. Subtlty isn't the Fraser Inst.'s strongpoint.

Je me souviens, Mon. Cooper. Je me souviens.
(I wonder of Mr. Cooper understands basic French or does he believe it to be "anti-American?")


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## BushLeague (Oct 3, 2005)

*Cbc*

Hi,

I read with interest the articles about CBC Radio/TV. I guess I fall into that small group of hard-core "Friends of the CBC". I know what CBC Radio meant to me as I boy growing up in the Prairies- choices were limited back then and back there so CBC reached out to us and made us fans of their programming- especially CBC Radio. 
Maybe I am naive but I think that, should Canada ever experience something on a national scale e.g. New York/9.11,- I would want to hear the story from CBC. I am not saying the CBC is without bias but it is infinitely more unbiased than the Amercian networks (just read "Dude, Where's My Country?" by M. Moore).
I'm old and I want the CBC around and maybe it's just a Linus blanket and we can't afford to keep it but I would hate to see this generation not have all the great CBC Radio programming that I experienced. I learned so much about Canada and my fellow Canadians.
BushLeague aka "apparently living in the past"


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Welcome to ehMac, BushLeague.

I am not sure just what you mean by "old", but I too grew up on the prairies (Southwestern Saskatchewan) and am currently 61.

Oddly enough, even back in the fifties, no one I knew or associated with listened to the CBC. When TV came to our area (1957) we all watched CBC because it was the one channel available. 

Radio was always tuned to the local station or one in Moose Jaw or Saskatoon or Regina, but not a one of 'em was CBC. Even then it had that reputation of being boring radio.

If it was gone tomorrow, I would applaud and welcome the money wasted applied to more constructive projects like health care, child care, the poor and affordable housing.


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## Fink-Nottle (Feb 25, 2001)

I don't watch much TV and very little CBC TV... although I'm delighted that they ran Doctor Who earlier this year. I am a big CBC radio listener though and this lockout has revealed what an important role they play. I agree that many of their people have a strong centre-left bias which they barely attempt to conceal. I'll gladly tolerate that though in exchange for what they bring to the table which is missing from other radio stations... intelligence, seriousness and an idealism about what Canada is and what Canada should be. The morning slot on Toronto has been a wasteland without the CBC. There is nothing else which comes close to 'Ideas', or 'The House' or even to Michael Enright on Sunday morning... pompous, jazz playing ass that he is.



> Anything other than news is just explicit entertainment.


What a foolish statement. The "news" on many commercial statements IS explicit entertainment and without someone taking news seriously there is a danger that future generation won't know the difference. And what are programmes like 'Ideas' or 'Tapestry'? 

I would argue with anyone that the best broadcasting comes from countries with mixed public/private systems. If the authors of this report (Decima Research is a Conservative polling agency by the way so I'd closely look at the survey questions and parameters) think the private sector will jump into the fill the gap left by the loss of the CBC, the results of this lockout suggest otherwise.


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## NewBill (May 29, 2005)

SINC said:


> Welcome to ehMac, BushLeague.
> 
> If it was gone tomorrow, I would applaud and welcome the money wasted applied to more constructive projects like health care, child care, the poor and affordable housing.


If the only way we could realize a return to the Canadian ambition of universal health care, child care, affordable housing and education was the closure of CBC then I would agree ... close it.

I suspect however that if we were to honour your choice for no CBC then we would honour someone else's choice for no welfare and yet again someone else's choice for something they don't wish to be taxed for.

A national broadcaster is part of our cultural fabric, part of our education, part of our heritage and relatively accessible to all even the poor sick and uneducated. It is so much a part of us that many of us can't recall a time without it and many of us don't even realize how much we participate. After all there is filler news casts (BBC world service) and repeats of pasts broadcasts filling the air, and that accounts for why some don't miss it.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Stats say nearly 90% of Canadians don't care about the CBC.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

SINC said:


> Stats say nearly 90% of Canadians don't care about the CBC.


hmmmm, I read the "article" and the question was of 1,000 Canadains whether or not they felt impacted by the lockout

translating that to *90% of Canadians don't care about the CBC* is very FAUX news of you

My Canada includes the CBC.

Did your cheque (check) from the Fraser Institute just clear your bank?


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

100% of myself couldn't care less about stats saying 90% of Canadians couldn't care less about the CBC. The CBC is a welcome and integral part of my life, whereas the private alternatives (CTV, Global, local corporate garbage er... _radio_ stations etc.) are definitely not.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

didn't we already have an ehmac poll on the CBC that demonstrated a radically different conclusion than SINC's?


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## talonracer (Dec 30, 2003)

While I'm not the biggest supporter of CBC TV outside of their sports coverage and RIck Mercer, I do like CBC radio. I used to have to commute between Kamloops and Vernon for work about 3-4 times a week. During that drive I'd tune in to CBC as it was the only station that I could maintain for the entire drive. A lot of times the topics of conversation were really interesting, and I got into listening to the CBC online even on the days I wasn't driving to Vernon.

I also appreciate that while I may have 57 channels, there are a ton of people across the country who only have one or two, and that's thanks to the CBC.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Yep, we did, but that poll is not reflective of average Canadians:

"The people who support CBC, particularly CBC Television -- if they're not actually working for the CBC -- are part of a group of mostly central Canadian nationalists, mostly socialist nationalists, who think there is something inherently virtuous about having taxpayers pay for television."


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

Why is it that the right wingers hate the CBC so? It must represent some kind of a threat - free speech and all that.



> If it was gone tomorrow, I would applaud and welcome the money wasted applied to more constructive projects like health care, child care, the poor and affordable housing.


As far as a waste of taxpayers dollars, I think there are much larger dragons to slay on that front.



> Stats say nearly 90% of Canadians don't care about the CBC.


It's interesting, from what I've seen I would say ehMac is reasonably representational of a cross section of the Canadian population and the CBC poll #'s are hugely in favour of it's popularity.

Go figure.


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

Oh yeah,

Isn't Canada.com somehow affiliated with the Aspers? Hmmm...  Might as well be The Fraser Institute.


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## ErnstNL (Apr 12, 2003)

I think if you did a poll in Nunavut, Labrador, Northwest Territories and the Yukon,
the results would reflect 90% felt a negative impact during he CBC lockout. 
I know I have a connection to the rest of Canada. I hope Northern Canada feels the same.

I think of the CBC as a global broadcaster servicing everyone without a need for making a profit.
If the CBC did not exist, how would we know about the tragedies like gas sniffing kids and high suicide rates in Northern communities?
I treat this poll interpretation like any other, with a large grain of skepticism.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

The CBC is part of a myriad of poorly directed good intentions. Between direct production funding, the film board, Canadian content rules and the CBC, it's pretty clear it could be done better. For example, a vibrant CBC across the regions that provided an outlet for local non-commercial talent as well as providing a standard news service would be great.

With this in place as their mandate, Canadian content rules and other limited handouts that are rife with cronyism could be wound down (why is the CRTC controlling satellite media? It flies in the face of 'public' asset regulation). The result would be a goto place for Canadian excellence in radio, internet and television production and reduction in the archaic controls of the CRTC and the multitude of culture-by-shotgun programs.

I think there is role for the CBC, but not without a clear mandate and, when it is shown how much that mandate overlaps with other government programs, a clear plan to get the goal done that ignores political territorial infighting and the ever-present claims of 'for the greater good therefore don't hold me to standards argument'. Given its purpose, ratings aren't the standard for the CBC, but what is? It can't just be customer satisfaction (ratings for a subset of Canadians) so we need some way to ensure they do a good job without resorting to carte blanche justification.


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## Fink-Nottle (Feb 25, 2001)

> Stats say nearly 90% of Canadians don't care about the CBC.


Rubbish... whose stats? Collected like this?

How to conduct surveys... Real Player clip from 'Yes Minister'


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Since I have never listened to CBC radio, I cannot comment on it other than any time I have been on the road and the only station available in remote areas was CBC radio, after listening for a few minutes, I turned off in favour of a CD.

But CBC television is abysmal, with the exception of the Antiques Roadshow, the CFL and HNIC.

Check this BBM site and it is clear that CBC TV can't even get one show in the top thirty shows as rated by viewers.


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

the fraser institute. give me a f*cking break. i thought you worked for a newspaper, sinc? don't you know what bias is?


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

The Passionate Eye, The Fifth Estate, The Nature of Things, Life & Times, Country Canada, Rough Cuts, Venture, On The Road Again, Da Vinci's Inquest, Just For Laughs, This Hour Has 22 Minutes, BBC rebroadcasts, and many others, are anything but abysmal. I'll watch any of these over any U.S. mass-market programs, any day. If it weren't for the CBC and the two U.S. Public Television stations that we receive in my area, I wouldn't watch television. As for radio, I tune in to two local corporate AM stations for news & weather on occasion -- but all my other listening is restricted to CBC Radios One and Two (and Vermont Public Radio).


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

OK, On The Road Again was good, but I have seen all those reruns they keep broadcasting. Country Canada has its moments. Just For Laughs is basically repeats of Montreal festival comedians a thousand times over. Never watched Da Vinci's Inquest, but it sounds a bit morbid. 22 Minutes has Rick Mercer whom I despise. BBC rebroadcasts are typically English and the rest have that CBC "flavour" to them that makes me suspicious that what I am watching is nothing but propaganda.

Sorry, but that's the way it looks to me.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

SINC, In trying to understand where you are coming from in your campaign to belittle CBC, I've been thinking that perhaps your opinions are drawn from your life-time work as a private sector journalist and editor? Your experiences likely include budgetary hardships and actions that were entirely driven by harsh economics and perhaps you feel the public broadcaters have it easy? You might also have been denied access that public sector journalists were granted as a matter of course. But perhaps not. It seems to me that if you think the only good programs on CBC are HNIC, the CFL and Antiques Roadshow, then perhaps you are missing the point of the network (which is surely to expose Canadians to work that is not necessarily driven only by what Hollywood considers sellable or what CTV and Global consider suitable for viewers with an average educational level of grade 9 (which they readily admit to serving as the lowest common denominator). That maybe where the money is, but it also leaves much to be desired in terms of the standards of media worldwide.

CBC is far from perfect but it provides a unique strand to the tapestry of news and entertainment in this country. A strand that could not necessarily be replaced by the private sector (which appears quite healthy).

Personally, the lock-out simply reinforced my opinion that the CBC is irreplaceable. I actually gave up watching all TV news. Hooray for the National.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

UTBJ, I have watched the CBC TV network deteriorate since the late 1950s.

It smacks of its Liberal masters, pure and simple.

The National is a joke. If you take the time to analyze the story content on any given night, it really should be called "The International".

Any national newscast should include a roundup of what happened in CANADA today. A story from each province for sure. The National news team falls far short of that goal. Apparently if it doesn't happen in Ottawa or Toronto, it is not newsworthy and the focus then changes to the world stage.

Their lead story on any given night is more likely to be international than national. Pay close attention and you may see my point.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

How about asking me if I would be impacted by CTV or GlobalTV going on strike? To be honest, no particular channel or network going down would impact me to any signficant extent. I just believe that the CBC provides more thoughtful programming than the pablum that they feed to the braindead masses.

So, I suggest that the Decima people rejigger their polling technique after this.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"The National is a joke. If you take the time to analyze the story content on any given night, it really should be called 'The International'." Sinc, here we disagree. The one think I like about the National is their drawn-out stories, rather than the formula stories of US news. Go from one US station to the next (e.g., CBS, NBC and ABC), and they are oftentimes on the same story and give it the same time for each piece.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Well Dr. G., we can agree to disagree, but do you not think a "National" newscast should cover one's country first, and foreign news second?

In depth coverage has its place, but not every single night from Ottawa. I for one would like to know what happened in St. John's or other places in Newfoundland and Labrador on any given night.

In the old days of the CBC news they did exactly this BEFORE they switched to international news. Sadly, most of the bureaus that used to make me feel I was a part of this great county have been closed or reduced to shells of their former selves. All this in the name of progress and the ability to use the money saved to produce shallow Canadian content programming than most Canadians do not watch.

If CBC TV returned to what it was in the 60s, I would be one of its supporters. Sadly I cannot do that today. Still, it is not too late to make change, but as long as the CBC takes its marching orders from a Liberal dominated Ottawa, I think it unlikely in the near future.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

IronMac said:


> How about asking me if I would be impacted by CTV or GlobalTV going on strike? To be honest, no particular channel or network going down would impact me to any signficant extent. I just believe that the CBC provides more thoughtful programming than the pablum that they feed to the braindead masses.
> 
> So, I suggest that the Decima people rejigger their polling technique after this.


if only global would go on strike
there'd be a huge sale on used U.S. flags


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## fellfromtree (May 18, 2005)

Having a national broadcaster (unfettered by International corporate commercial concerns) give our perspective on international events is very signifigant. Watch 5 minutes of American versions of International news, or BBC verisons of international news. Clearly a Canadian version of International news is important to us. If you are complainingthat our National broadcaster is Liberal biased, watch 5 minutes of US... 
CBC is multi-disciplined. You can get a wealth of National focus through radio programming. (I have not listened to Global or CTV national radio, so I can't compare their radio coverage to CBC) 

I do loathe Canadian period drama on CBC- probably a deterrent to sparking interest in Canadian history..


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

I wonder if the CBC could exist by broadcasting only news and Canadian based shows?
I don't really need to watch the CBC to see Star Wars movies.

It could then free up "private" broadcasters to do away with Cdn. content rules, BUT the CBC must still get full funding and NOT be expected to make a profit.

I would then fully expect the Aspers et al to stop yapping and just fly their American flags as high as possible.

The CBC, like healt care, is a Cdn. institution.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Michael, I would love to see the CBC focus on only Canadian content, so long as their funding is not reduced. It would be like PBS, which has a loyal, albeit smaller audience.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sinc, if you watch the full hours of "The National", you get insights into national and international news, exactly what I would want from a news program. However, they do so much more than this. Their specials about various regions of Canada were great, as are their political panal mini-debates. My wife and I have to stay up until 1130PM to see this whole hour, which is problematic when we are up very early, but we are richer for this viewing.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Dr.G. said:


> Michael, I would love to see the CBC focus on only Canadian content, so long as their funding is not reduced. It would be like PBS, which has a loyal, albeit smaller audience.


CFL, HNIC (you'd have to make exceptions for playoffs when Cdn. teams fall out) , David Suzuki, This hour has 22 minutes, etc.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Michael, I could watch David Suzuki, followed by This hour has 22 minutes, followed by David Suzuki, followed by This hour has 22 minutes, all day. Throw in some Canadian Air Farse, and of course news, and I am a happy camper. I have to admit, however, that I listen to more CBC radio than anything else. I may watch about 1-2 hours of TV a day, and one on those hours is with CBC news. The main battle that my wife and I have daily is which CBC stations, One or Two, is going to be on the kitchen radio.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

One would think that by making the CBC's mandate to promote and produce Cdn. programming and be guaranteed funding, they could ease the "strain" of Cdn. programming for private broadcasters.

I see it as win-win. That is unless the CONS get into power and then all bets are off.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I would hope that even a Conservative majority in Parliament would not consider scrapping the CBC totally.


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## Jordan (Jul 20, 2002)

I'm glad the strike/lockout is finally over, a week or two to get back to regular programming.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

Dr.G. said:


> I would hope that even a Conservative majority in Parliament would not consider scrapping the CBC totally.


In that case, we could drag them out of the Parliament buildings...slow roast them over the eternal flame and the "commercial" networks will devote 2 minutes of airtime to the event. No problemo, Canadians will forget about it quickly enough. 

Now, if the CBC was still around, this happy event would merit five minutes on The National, fifteen minutes on The Journal and a documentary event on The Passionate Eye. This would mean that a significant minority of Canadians would demand "justice" which would make it more difficult for the perpetrators to get away with it. 

Right now, watching the issue of the Chinese Head Tax on The Passionate Eye. It makes my blood boil to see that such a racist injustice has not yet been redressed.


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## DEWLine (Sep 24, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> And from Calgary too. Home of Harper's ex-pat U.S. puppet masters.
> Just because the CBC isn't PRO American, doesn't make it anti-American.
> A subtle point lost on Barry Cooper. Then again. Subtlty isn't the Fraser Inst.'s strongpoint.


It's an ongoing problem for the Fraser Institute crowd. But then, there's always been this faction who believes that Canadian independence is more trouble than it's financially worth tolerating.


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## DEWLine (Sep 24, 2005)

I'd honestly hate to lose *Doctor Who* as a result of any such policy change. I like the idea of us supporting one of the Great SF Franchises of human TV.


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## DEWLine (Sep 24, 2005)

Dr.G. said:


> I would hope that even a Conservative majority in Parliament would not consider scrapping the CBC totally.


Death by a Thousand Budget Cuts would be the unofficial policy towards CBC if such a government took power here, though. Just as the Grits have been doing since Chretien took office.


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## DEWLine (Sep 24, 2005)

Pleasing news:

The layout of the main CBC Web News site is starting to return to normal. And at least one of the regional CBC sites, in Saskatchewan, is back on-line as well. That too is part of what we're all paying for!

Now if the main news site could just ditch those #$%&* advert banners!!!


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Luckily, CBC regular programs shall return tomorrow. I truly missed my CBC, especially the CBC Radio One and Two.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

SINC, the National headlines seem to reflect the relative importance of the stories. The CBC invests a lot of effort into its foreign correspondants but also has correspondants in virtually every corner of this great land. It is insular to think that international events should not take precedence over local events - especially with the rich diaspora that forms modern Canada. There is plenty of coverage of Canadian stories (the BSE crisis, the political changes across the country, the lobster/cod/salmon fisheries, the softwood lumber dispute, the Homolka release, the Mountie killings, the Flames run for the cup, etc, etc.). It may seem that there is an Ontario/Quebec bias, but after stripping out the Federal politics news, I doubt the coverage is out of kilter from the population bases.

Perhaps the CBC has become more attuned to world events. Perhaps that is because the world is now so much smaller. Perhaps their response reflects the changing demographics of the country? In which case, perhaps you could organize support for a "classic" CBC channel that reflects the country as it was 50 years ago? A CBC TVLand?


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

used to be jwoodget said:


> In which case, perhaps you could organize support for a "classic" CBC channel that reflects the country as it was 50 years ago? A CBC TVLand?


So if this was the movie Pleasantville which character would Sinc be?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

used to be jwoodget said:


> Perhaps the CBC has become more attuned to world events. Perhaps that is because the world is now so much smaller. Perhaps their response reflects the changing demographics of the country? In which case, perhaps you could organize support for a "classic" CBC channel that reflects the country as it was 50 years ago? A CBC TVLand?


I suspect that is tongue in cheek UTBJ, but it IS near the truth.

If CBC TV news did "The International" for the first half hour and "The National" for the second half hour, I predict viewership would surge. Particularly if they picked up the pace and did it in 90 second takes instead of going on and on for 15 minutes per item like they do now.

CBC has quietly disbanded any semblance of real news gathering in every Canadian market with the possible exception of Toronto and Ottawa.

In every other city like Edmonton or Calgary or Winnipeg they have gutted local news coverage to become the bottom feeder of viewers in each of those markets and I suspect many more. They have managed to take CBC TV news from number one in every market to dead last in every market.

A sad result indeed for our so-called national broadcaster.

Personally, I could give a rodent's butt about most world news being televised, but I could abide a half hour dedicated to same to stay informed. The in depth stuff I can get from newspapers. I am much more interested in my own country and what fellow Canadians have accomplished this past day on my TV set.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sinc, we might have some agreement pertaining to local CBC news coverage. CBC had the highest viewership of local news until the cut it back from an hour to a half hour of local coverage. Then the CBC slipped in the ratings to behind NTV. I am told that this has been the case in other areas as well. It was done to save money, but it actually ended up costing them money in lost ad revenues. I do see a Toronto-centric approach to some of the decisions made by CBC management, although I do like what they put on the air for national and international coverage. However, each major city and region needs its local news coverage as well, and this too has to be supported.


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## DEWLine (Sep 24, 2005)

Here's a bit of irony for you:

When the Lockout was triggered by Rabinovitch, Stursberg, Chalmers and Smith, CBC was apparently about to finally begin reversing the trend of the last few years of pulling back from local-regional coverage in the TV arm. Local TV newscasts were about to be expanded towards their old timeslot sizes again.

Hmmm...


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

I can't stand the editorialized, 90 second snippets of sound bytes that are packaged as "news" by most stations. This is tabloid journalism. If people are not willing or interested in hearing more about the story, then they should stick to the superficial CNN soundbytes. CTV NewsNet is a good example. I've been on it. Get interviewed - three or four questions. It's almost rote. No space for originality, exploration of the story or debate. This type of programming is to real news what a comic is to a newspaper. There is so much more. The ratio of international to national news should not be dictated by time but by impact and importance. Sometimes, the national news is so important that it pre-empts all international news and vice versa. Rather than preprogrammed snippets of sports, weather, traffic and the "humour slot" that are almost entirely the same day-in, day-out, long live the real story.

I've no figures on the number of in-the-field correspondents at the CBC now compared with 20 years ago. It's likely decreased. That's a shame, but I wonder if its anything to do with their budget? Long live Joe Schlessinger, David Halton and his father, Matthew and their ilk.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

used to be jwoodget said:


> Long live Joe Schlessinger, David Halton and his father, Matthew and their ilk.


Sorry, but if a guy (Schlessinger) who never said a word I understood due to his heavy accent is your CBC hero, it is obvious we will never agree on correspondents. Halton on the other hand was moderately understandable, but never did anything that caught my attention, rather bland to be sure.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sinc, Schlessinger's accent was not that difficult to understand, and what he said made a great deal of sense. I am sorry that you found him difficult to understand, because I think you would have been moved by some of his views. Paix, mon ami.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

SINC, in that case, you'd probably hate the TTC radio adverts describing a new type of transferable ticket. Of 6 or so voices, only one is clearly "English-Canadian". The rest include samples of the rich heritage that walks the streets of Toronto and rides the Red Rocket. To me, Schlessinger's accent added to the interest of his erudition - like his trademark sable hat.

I guess you're not too keen on Celine Galipeau, Michel Cormier, either, eh? Heck, they aren't too photogenic either. The talking heads at CTV and Global are so much easier on the eyes.....


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I find it odd that no one but Dr. G. has yet to admit the gutting of local news that has taken place at CBC TV over the years.

For a purportedly dubbed, "national treasure" the slaughter continues to this day and nary a word from supporters who seem to continue to want only international news.

Those supporters do not understand that the real Canada lies far beyond Ottawa, Toronto and the world. It lies in the richness and diversity of the make up of each province and is sorely ignored by CBC, be it TV or radio in terms of daily news reporting.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

SINC said:


> Sorry, but if a guy (Schlessinger) who never said a word I understood due to his heavy accent is your CBC hero, it is obvious we will never agree on correspondents. Halton on the other hand was moderately understandable, but never did anything that caught my attention, rather bland to be sure.


Damn immigrants.
What the hell are they doing in Canada if they can't speak the Queen's English. If they can't speak French, that's ok.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

used to be jwoodget said:


> The talking heads at CTV and Global are so much easier on the eyes.....


Hopefully you don't mean Mike Duffy is easy on the eyes.

I find that the CTV-style under 90 second approach has its uses, like in the morning, or between other more interesting shows. One way isn't really superior to the other, its based on what is needed and when. Canada has one solid short-format news channel, and room for a long-format one, which CBC filled, but did they fill it because no one else will or because there isn't room for two in Canada? The CBC has to focus on what others aren't doing, and ensure that it doesn't just crowd out its competitors. For too long it has been in a half-arsed netherworld of pseudo competition and unique service that just irritated a lot of people in how the station refused to focus.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Must be because I live in Toronto, but I've not noticed a lack of news from the four corners of this vast land. Indeed, I find CBC radio to be a far more likely source of Canadian news than any of the "local" stations.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> Damn immigrants.
> What the hell are they doing in Canada if they can't speak the Queen's English. If they can't speak French, that's ok.


Do you really have to read racism into everything MACSPECTRUM?

It was an observation based on my personal experience and ability to understand what was being reported and nothing more. Please give it a rest.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

I was being sarcastic about the looks of the newscasters. Mike Duffy can give my dog sleepless nights. Content is king. I don't exactly care what surrounds the mouth that delivers the content (within limits).


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

SINC said:


> Do you really have to read racism into everything MACSPECTRUM?
> 
> It was an observation based on my personal experience and ability to understand what was being reported and nothing more. Please give it a rest.



I understand Joe very well.
Perhapd it comes from being surrounded by adults with accents in my youth.

I didn't realize you Albertans were so sensitive.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

used to be jwoodget said:


> I was being sarcastic about the looks of the newscasters. Mike Duffy can give my dog sleepless nights. Content is king. I don't exactly care what surrounds the mouth that delivers the content (within limits).


 Thanks for clearing that up. I was just going to start searching for top-of-the-line psychiatrists and eye-doctors to recommend to you. The 'Duff may have some impressive sources and run a decent show, but I'm more likely to be looking at ehmac than the TV when it's on.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

I have to chime in and say that I have never had a problem understanding Joe. I rather admire the man, myself.


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## BushLeague (Oct 3, 2005)

*Cbc*

Hi there! 

First, thanks for welcoming a new guy to the Forum. I've really enjoyed reading the "discussion" about the CBC- regardless of your opinion you have to admit that reading all the comments is a gas- serious, witty, articulate, and humorous too.

I don't know much but I think guys like Schlesinger, Duffy are what makes CBC (Canada) great- we don't need everyone to look like Stone Phillips. It reminds me of the American complaint that they can't see the puck on tv. Really.

Anyway, I just want to say how impressed I am with the dialogue. I was thinking about asking what everyone thought about Air Canada....


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> was thinking about asking what everyone thought about Air Canada


necessary evil
i hate the staff, but the planes, schedules and pricing are ok

i do like the west jet model of ownership by employees and staff who actually give a $hit

wanna feel neglected?
fly air canada


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

SINC said:


> I find it odd that no one but Dr. G. has yet to admit the gutting of local news that has taken place at CBC TV over the years.
> 
> For a purportedly dubbed, "national treasure" the slaughter continues to this day and nary a word from supporters who seem to continue to want only international news.
> 
> Those supporters do not understand that the real Canada lies far beyond Ottawa, Toronto and the world. It lies in the richness and diversity of the make up of each province and is sorely ignored by CBC, be it TV or radio in terms of daily news reporting.


Well, that's the real genious of the funding cuts of the last decade or so, isn't it? Support for CBC goes down, allowing for even more cuts. Personally, however, I don't much care. I have always preferred national and international news to local.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

DEWLine said:


> I'd honestly hate to lose *Doctor Who* as a result of any such policy change. I like the idea of us supporting one of the Great SF Franchises of human TV.


That and The Royal Canadian Air Farce are about the only TV show I watch on CBC. I can't think of any other. Well, maybe Walt Disney as well, but I rarely watch that anymore. Alot of the types of shows that I used to watch on CBC, I now watch on TLC, HGTV, BBC, or Discovery. For my Canadian news I go to CTV or Global. I watch the odd special event on CBC such as concerts or Cirque Du Soleil or some Canadian history story.


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

> Perhaps the CBC has become more attuned to world events. Perhaps that is because the world is now so much smaller. Perhaps their response reflects the changing demographics of the country? In which case, perhaps you could organize support for a "classic" CBC channel that reflects the country as it was 50 years ago? A CBC TVLand?


Very funny!

Classic news is waaay easier on the system.


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

I have to say the right wing media focuses on CBC TV. It is always their best shot at knocking the Corporation.

CBC TV in the Maritimes puts on 3 half hours of news much of the news is the same and just ordered differently to reflect the Province of origin. A regional broadcast would be better if it lasted 1 hour to an hour and a half. But will that ever happen on CBC No! Because of politics.

The CTV regional affiliate "ATV" has a 2 hour regional news magazine. 1st hour called Live at Five is a bunch feel good horse puckies and the second hour is half filled with features that waste about half an hour. Out of 2 hours about 35 minutes for local, regional, national, international news, sports and weather the international news is mostly USA feeds. I refer to this 2 hour news program as "Live at Five, Dead at 6 Resurrection at Seven." Just a crappie imitation of what news should be.

While the CBC enforced its lockout I watched PBS news. Much better than the 90 second stories of the CTV/American style of news. 

A private broadcaster can show regional broadcast but not the CBC.

CBC Radio 1 is my favourite broadcaster. CBC does an excellent job in the Maritimes. The Saturday early morning show Weekend Morning is extremely popular. I like being introduced to new talent through Atlantic Air Waves. All of the Morning shows of which New Brunswick has 3, Nova Scotia has 2 and PEI has 1, all do well in their respective markets.

The CBC Radio network show are widely popular as pointed out elsewhere in this thread. If you travel the ability to follow the same shows as radio stations fade one to the next is great. It points out the appeal of Satellite Radio to their listeners. The CBC is prepaid and Sat-Radio is a fee for service option.

The right winged media try to trot out opinion and try to dress it up as fact. Tell the Big Lie long and often enough maybe it will stick. (No I an not arguing with the poll numbers but like others have pointed out the poll is questionable.)

I am sorry some folks won't relax long enough to "get" CBC especially Radio 1. It does a really good job at reflecting Canada to Canadians.

I CAN'T WAIT TO GET MY CBC BACK! MAYBE THIS WEEK. NEXT WEEK FOR SURE!


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Some (not just ehmacers) talk about the media as right-winged and others left-winged; it's quite amusing, considering they're talking about the same media. I doubt 'the truth is somewhere in between' is adequate to summarize this, but something is going on...maybe an ambigous-wing conspiracy!


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

BigDL said:


> I have to say the right wing media focuses on CBC TV. It is always their best shot at knocking the Corporation.
> 
> CBC TV in the Maritimes puts on 3 half hours of news much of the news is the same and just ordered differently to reflect the Province of origin. A regional broadcast would be better if it lasted 1 hour to an hour and a half. But will that ever happen on CBC No! Because of politics.


I am so glad you enjoy "your" CBC TV in Atlantic Canada. Nice to hear, however out here in the west, it is not so well received.

If we can applaud your enjoyment at your end of the country, why can you not understand our frustrations with CBC TV service? I just wish they even tried to get to your level out here. We get nothing in terms of regional news. Zero. Frig all!

It is a waste of our tax dollars.


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

SINC said:


> I am so glad you enjoy "your" CBC TV in Atlantic Canada. Nice to hear, however out here in the west, it is not so well received.


What are you talking about... everyone loves Ian Hanomansing (or as all the ladies here call him... Ian "Handsome Man Thing"), He is based out of Vancouver... how much more west do you want?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

da_jonesy said:


> What are you talking about... everyone loves Ian Hanomansing (or as all the ladies here call him... Ian "Handsome Man Thing"), He is based out of Vancouver... how much more west do you want?


You just don't get it do you? Regional news died on CBC TV. That was a very important part of our sparsely populated part of rural Canada.

Gone is any mention of rural western culture, or agriculture and the daily challenges farmers and ranchers face. Instead we get events from Toronto, Ottawa and foreign countries for 99% of every broadcast. The bread basket of the nation is ignored most of the time.

And before you say it, BSE was well covered, but only because it affected the entire country.


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

SINC said:


> You just don't get it do you? Regional news died on CBC TV. That was a very important part of our sparsely populated part of rural Canada.
> 
> Gone is any mention of rural western culture, or agriculture and the daily challenges farmers and ranchers face. Instead we get events from Toronto, Ottawa and foreign countries for 99% of every broadcast. The bread basket of the nation is ignored most of the time.
> 
> And before you say it, BSE was well covered, but only because it affected the entire country.


Didn't you guys get a whole CBC Channel? CBC Country Canada?

Also you can go on about the loss of local western TV stations, but I guarantee you that you weren't singled out for persecution... this has happened everywhere.

You can thank the Satellite providers and not the CBC for that one.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

da_jonesy said:


> Didn't you guys get a whole CBC Channel? CBC Country Canada?
> 
> Also you can go on about the loss of local western TV stations, but I guarantee you that you weren't singled out for persecution... this has happened everywhere.
> 
> You can thank the Satellite providers and not the CBC for that one.


The Country Canada reference is a lame joke at best. As is the notion that satellite providers are to blame.

One who has never experienced living in the remote areas of the prairie provinces will never understand the impact the CBC had with its cuts to services.

It was an integral part of our culture, our education, our agriculture knowledge base, our children's entertainment. I could go on and on.

But the CBC eviscerated all of that and channeled the funds chopped from our local news coverage, into serving the majority in central Canada who wanted "international news".


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

SINC said:


> The Country Canada reference is a lame joke at best. As is the notion that satellite providers are to blame.
> 
> One who has never experienced living in the remote areas of the prairie provinces will never understand the impact the CBC had with its cuts to services.
> 
> ...


I think that only reflects the change that Canada has made as a whole over the past 40 years. The majority of the population has moved from the rural settings to urban settings. The influx of immigrants to Canada and our standing as a member of the G7 has mandated that we now take a more prominent look at world affairs.

I'm sorry you can't see the big picture Sinc. I understand that you are in the news business, but little "Billy" on a tractor is not that newsworthy anymore. While I do not want to denigrate the history or culture of Western Canada there is simple logic at work here. Case in point... Kansas (a single US state) produces as much grain/wheat that the whole of Canada produces. The fact that the predominant factor in the cost of Canadian grain/wheat is the transportation costs in getting from the fields to purchaser. This means that what happens in the Middle East is VITALLY important to Western Canada, particularly the rural west.

This is not from some easterner who doesn't know sh*t (as I am sure you must think) but this I know from my neighbour who worked for JRI in Manitoba and Saskatchewan for 20 years.

This honestly smacks of "poor us"; our kids don't want to work the farm any more... our communities are becoming ghost towns before our eyes. The CBC has certainly suffered from budget cuts and had to cut services, but in my mind and from a "big" picture point of view, they are doing a damned fine job.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

And that is where I will leave the debate as you and I will never agree. By the way, I have a neighbour who grew up in Toronto and moved here twenty years ago, but that does not qualify me as any type of authority on what goes on in that city. Cheers.


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

SINC said:


> By the way, I have a neighbour who grew up in Toronto and moved here twenty years ago, but that does not qualify me as any type of authority on what goes on in that city. Cheers.


Oh that was cheese... Great editorial cheese, you should be working for CanWest or Hollinger.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

used to be jwoodget said:


> SINC, In trying to understand where you are coming from in your campaign to belittle CBC...


Actually the CBC has been belittling ITSELF for most of the last two or three decades. It has become such a noteably public organ for the widly unpopular Liberal Party of Canada...which is only supported in one single area of Toronto City Proper, after all...that most of the rest of us out here in the rest of Canada have begun to ignore it in droves.

Besides...most of it's original programming is boring DRECK. Everything else it does is just rebroadcasts of American series. And the CBC News has become a twisted parody. Only good for a laugh...when you are seriously bored with the real news.

If the CBC were to suddenly vanish tomorrow, then hardly anyone in Canada would even take any real notice. That's because the vast majority of us Canadians don't actually listen to the CBC, or watch it, with any sort of regularity.

This is FACT. Read the polls.

If the CBC were to vanish tomorrow...then about a BILLION of our Canadian tax dollars would be suddenly available for more worthy causes. This could only be a good thing. (Health care? Schools? Roads?...the list of worthy causes goes on....)

BUT...then again, if the CBC were to suddenly vanish tomorrow...that would mean that tens of thousands of coddled unionised CBC drones would suddenly be flushed out into the real world. There would suddenly be a bazillion "Producers" out there...given the fact that the CBC seems to list everyone who works on an unwatchable program or a series as a "Producer". These coddled drones would need support and therapy and probably extended stress leave once they entered the real world (and even "disability pay") that would have to be paid for by ALL of us...

Six of one, half dozen of the other. Either way, it's going to cost ALL of us a BUNCH of money to make it right.

And..it will take a decade or two to recover from this silly excersize in socialist planning and media manipulation. It will be both painful and EXPENSIVE. Just as it has been in ALL of the other countries that embarked on this ill-fated experiment in large scale social engineering thirty or more years ago.

Most of the western democracies in Europe have already had to swallow this bitter pill and deal with the consequences. Canada...a country that is well behind the bell curve on this...has yet to deal with this reality. 

But it WILL. Very soon. Very soon, indeed!

Trust me on this.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

For a guy who never watches nor listens to CBC, you sure seem to know all about it's programming. The polls aren't conclusive, nor properly conducted -- simply saying 90% of Canadians weren't affected by the lockout doesn't clearly say 90% of all Canada hates CBC... nor does it say they didn't continue to watch/listen in spite of the lockout. In fact, the poll was conducted in a pocket of Canada that doesn't accurately reflect the *true* Canadian population -- why didn't they conduct it in Ontario, Quebec, BC, and the Atlantic Provinces? Because it's actually popular there! (Check that stats.)

The fact that the majority of ehMac members (over 70%) watch the CBC on a regular basis contradicts the poll SINC quotes -- why shouldn't this be taken into consideration? Because certain members of the western provinces have their own motives? Because they hate the "liberal" provinces? Who knows... But for a bunch of guys who never watch, nor listen, to the CBC -- they seem to know ALL about it's programming and it's alleged "Liberal" slant.

And, by the way, it's ONE poll... not polls. And it was conducted from 1000 people in Alberta -- not across Canada. If you want to read about polls, check out Stephen "The Ball Dropper" Harper's party fantasico and how they're faring against the evil Liberals.










I coulda been a contender... I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum.


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

MannyP,



> And, by the way, it's ONE poll... not polls. And it was conducted from 1000 people in Alberta -- not across Canada. If you want to read about polls, check out Stephen "The Ball Dropper" Harper's party fantasico and how they're faring against the evil Liberals.


Thanks for the clarification and especially the laugh.

It's a curious attitude, hating the CBC. Some of the best television and radio (and that is hard to find) has come from the CBC. Real information, real entertainment. Things I may never have thought of or even knew they existed. Education, enlightenment, entertainment. Hmmm, seems worth my tax dollars at least.


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

MacNutt said:


> Everything else it does is just rebroadcasts of American series.


I guess you haven't tuned into CTV or Global lately, have you Mr. Expert?

Re: your comments about "social engineering" - now THAT's dreck.


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

MacNutt said:


> This is FACT. Read the polls.
> 
> Most of the western democracies in Europe have already had to swallow this bitter pill and deal with the consequences. Canada...a country that is well behind the bell curve on this...has yet to deal with this reality.
> 
> But it WILL. Very soon. Very soon, indeed!



Polls? What Polls? I see LOTS of publicly funded TV being offered all around the world... Straight from the gulag capital of the world, Russia to fish and chips central the BBC to we can't count in Florida PBS.

NOT even with a Conservative Majority will you see the CBC go away... pssst how do you think they survived in the late 80's early 90's?



MacNutt said:


> Trust me on this.


Yeah, how is that "Trust me on this" line working for you these days? I recall a certain liberal government falling to your mighty conservo-alliance in a vote of non confidence last spring... I suppose we should just "Trust you on this"?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha...


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

SINC,

Tonights National led off with the bird flu entering Turkey (hey, if you think this isn't important, so be it) and then had stories on the Canadian efforts to help the Pakistani disaster, the BC teachers strike and a sotroy on Nickelback hitting #1 on the Billboard charts (inc. footage of them in small town Alta today - which would be where they're from).

MacNutt, you can't seriously believe that the CBC has in any way contributed to the Liberal's remaining in power? The reason Harper is in the mess he's in given the string of golden opportunities he's been handed on a plate, is because he is fundamentally unable to communicate with Canadians. He seems to be pathologically unable to interact with anyone in public without looking as though he really wishes he was in a room by himself. Start dealing with the real problem, don't look for excuses.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

used to be jwoodget said:


> SINC,
> 
> Tonights National led off with the bird flu entering Turkey (hey, if you think this isn't important, so be it) and then had stories on the Canadian efforts to help the Pakistani disaster, the BC teachers strike and a sotroy on Nickelback hitting #1 on the Billboard charts (inc. footage of them in small town Alta today - which would be where they're from).


Why not direct your post to the attention of someone who actually watches CBC, UTBJ? Seems a waste on me!


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Wow. Your mind appears so tightly closed, you could put a piece of coal in there and it would emerge a diamond in no time.


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

« MannyP Design » said:


> Wow. Your mind appears so tightly closed, you could put a piece of coal in there and it would emerge a diamond in no time.


Might as well not even bother MannyP. He is totally sucked into the Fox, Canwest and Hollinger brand of Op-Ed journalism that he will never see the good through what he thinks is the bad.

I find this a sad state of affairs given that he is a journalist and writes editorial comments for several newspapers out west. He just doesn't see the big picture.


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## Mugatu (Mar 31, 2005)

da_jonesy said:


> He just doesn't see the big picture.


Why can't SINC just dislike the CBC? 

Why do left leaning people always have to say that anyone that doesn't agree with them is evil/lacking morals/ignorant?

What is the big picture da_jonesy? He just doesn't find value in the CBC. 

UTBJW, My favourite t-shirt says 'Even God Hates Nickleback'. Boo for formula driven music.


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

> Why do left leaning people always have to say that anyone that doesn't agree with them is evil/lacking morals/ignorant?


It happens with right leaning as well.

Trust me on this.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Mugatu said:


> Why can't SINC just dislike the CBC?
> 
> Why do left leaning people always have to say that anyone that doesn't agree with them is evil/lacking morals/ignorant?


ummmm, I think the "right" has that all locked up


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## Mugatu (Mar 31, 2005)

mrjimmy said:


> It happens with right leaning as well.
> 
> Trust me on this.


Without a doubt.


----------



## Mugatu (Mar 31, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> ummmm, I think the "right" has that all locked up


Yes.... and so does the left.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

da_jonesy said:


> Might as well not even bother MannyP. He is totally sucked into the Fox, Canwest and Hollinger brand of Op-Ed journalism that he will never see the good through what he thinks is the bad.
> 
> I find this a sad state of affairs given that he is a journalist and writes editorial comments for several newspapers out west. He just doesn't see the big picture.


For your information, I do not watch Fox, but I do prefer CTV news as do the majority of Canadians polled. I have no choice but to read Canwest as it owns the Edmonton Journal and Hollinger because it owns the local competitive weekly here.

I write for an independent weekly and for Canwest on occasion, but only on classic and special interest cars.

I never have and never will write editorials.

I find your opinions of who I am and what I write to be the same sad a state of affairs you mention in your post.

I simply believe the CBC is a waste of our tax dollars. It is my opinion and mine alone. Do you think you can ever get your head around that simple fact?


----------



## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

To be honest, I just don't understand the gripe -- when a person makes _that_ much of an effort to *never* watch (or listen for that matter) what the CBC offers in it's programming... how can they honestly say there is any political slant (Liberal or not)? How would they know? Where's the proof?

How can someone of the opposite side of the conversation take anything "they" say seriously when they quote one poll, conducted in a pocket of one province in Canada with such a vague question?

_61 per cent of those polled said they felt no impact at all from the lockout._​
Does this mean they like or hate the CBC? No.
Does this mean they ever listen to the CBC? No.
Does this mean they stopped listening to the CBC? No.
Does this mean the CBC is irrelevant? No.



Mugatu said:


> Why can't SINC just dislike the CBC?
> 
> Why do left leaning people always have to say that anyone that doesn't agree with them is evil/lacking morals/ignorant?
> 
> What is the big picture da_jonesy? He just doesn't find value in the CBC.


I can understand the idea that someone believes CBC sucks (you can't please everyone), or it's a waste of money -- a lot of people think _any_ government spending is a waste, regardless of whether or not it's true, or necessary.

But CBC having political slant? Virtually no audiences? Until they offer something a wee bit more substantial... sorry, it's all just a load of Alberta, grain-fed, grade-A, bullsh!t.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

« MannyP Design » said:


> To be honest, I just don't understand the gripe
> 
> 
> I can understand the idea that someone believes CBC sucks


Well, which is it?


----------



## Mugatu (Mar 31, 2005)

« MannyP Design » said:


> But CBC having political slant? Virtually no audiences? Until they offer something a wee bit more substantial... sorry, it's all just a load of Alberta, grain-fed, grade-A, bullsh!t.


Glad you noticed he's from Alberta.


----------



## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

SINC said:


> Well, which is it?


Neither... your inability to use recognize the polls you quote aren't conclusive, nor accurately portray a true Canadian cross-section (not to mention open-ended), and the lack of proof to show CBC has a Liberal slant.

But maybe I sound like a separatist to you?


----------



## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Mugatu said:


> Glad you noticed he's from Alberta.


As I'm sure he's noticed I'm from Quebec as well.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

« MannyP Design » said:


> As I'm sure he's noticed I'm from Quebec as well.


Nope, from you avatar info, I thought Ottawa.


----------



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

quoteth by SINC;


> I have no choice but to read Canwest as it owns the Edmonton Journal and Hollinger because it owns the local competitive weekly here.


"no choice?"
You're starting to sound like John Turner when he got nailed by Mulroney on political appointments for outgoing Trudeau cronies.

and by the way, you don't get the "Globe and Mail" out there?


----------



## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

SINC said:


> Nope, from you avatar info, I thought Ottawa.


Actually, the NCR includes Gatineau. Odd, since neither Ottawa, nor Gatineau are officially bilingual... but that's for another thread, on another day.


----------



## Mugatu (Mar 31, 2005)

« MannyP Design » said:


> As I'm sure he's noticed I'm from Quebec as well.


My point being that taking 2 million people and saying they all think and act the same way, good or bad, is pretty closed minded. 

Nooooowww.... don't get your knickers in a knot. I'm sure you used it more as a figurative statement than actually trying to say that everyone in Alberta is full of bull****.... right?


----------



## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

Mugatu said:


> Why can't SINC just dislike the CBC?


Sinc can hate whatever it is that he likes, however when he publicly quotes clearly biased polls taken from a sampling of one province and claims that this then represents how Canadians feel... well this is nothing short of propaganda.



Mugatu said:


> Why do left leaning people always have to say that anyone that doesn't agree with them is evil/lacking morals/ignorant?


I never claimed Sinc was anything of the sort... I provided several arguments as to why I think the direction of the CBC in more global news coverage was a prudent thing to do given the changes in Canadian demographics and society in general. Sinc choose not to agree which is his right to do so and thankfully did not even dredge up that dreary one sided poll to defend his position.



Mugatu said:


> What is the big picture da_jonesy? He just doesn't find value in the CBC.


I quote myself in reference to the big picture... _ "I think that only reflects the change that Canada has made as a whole over the past 40 years. The majority of the population has moved from the rural settings to urban settings. The influx of immigrants to Canada and our standing as a member of the G7 has mandated that we now take a more prominent look at world affairs."_

And subsequently...

_"I understand that you are in the news business, but little "Billy" on a tractor is not that newsworthy anymore. While I do not want to denigrate the history or culture of Western Canada there is simple logic at work here. Case in point... Kansas (a single US state) produces as much grain/wheat that the whole of Canada produces. The fact that the predominant factor in the cost of Canadian grain/wheat is the transportation costs in getting from the fields to purchaser. This means that what happens in the Middle East is VITALLY important to Western Canada, particularly the rural west." _

So suffice to say that the Big Picture in this case is that the CBC has changed and is absolutely relevant to Canadians since we are all part of something bigger than Canada.




Mugatu said:


> UTBJW, My favourite t-shirt says 'Even God Hates Nickleback'. Boo for formula driven music.


Now here is the difference between Sinc and I. I do not like Nickleback as I find their music to be boring and formulaic. This is a true statement, and I did not try to convince anyone by using a poll from Ontario that shows that the majority of Ontarians (and thus claiming that then all Canadians must feel the same way)dislike Nickleback for the same reasons.


----------



## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

SINC said:


> For your information, I do not watch Fox, but I do prefer CTV news as do the majority of Canadians polled. I have no choice but to read Canwest as it owns the Edmonton Journal and Hollinger because it owns the local competitive weekly here.


Well given your exposure to those media channels I am not surprised by your views.



SINC said:


> I write for an independent weekly and for Canwest on occasion, but only on classic and special interest cars.
> 
> I never have and never will write editorials.
> 
> I find your opinions of who I am and what I write to be the same sad a state of affairs you mention in your post.


Thanks for the clarification... And I publicly apologize that I inferred that you write politically influential editorials for your local papers.

Although I'd be interested in your review of the Toyota Prius (he he he) 



SINC said:


> I simply believe the CBC is a waste of our tax dollars. It is my opinion and mine alone. Do you think you can ever get your head around that simple fact?


Not so long as you come on here in a public forum and claim that the majority of Canadians feel the way that you do and then back that statement up with a dubious poll sampled from a single province.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

da_jonesy said:


> I never claimed Sinc was anything of the sort... I provided several arguments as to why I think the direction of the CBC in more global news coverage was a prudent thing to do given the changes in Canadian demographics and society in general. Sinc choose not to agree which is his right to do so and thankfully did not even dredge up that dreary one sided poll to defend his position.


 Quote:

"A Decima survey released in late August showed that 61 per cent of those polled said they felt no impact at all from the lockout, which began on Aug. 15. Only 10 per cent of 1,000 Canadians surveyed by phone from Aug. 18-21 said the dispute was "a major inconvenience." A further 27 per cent called it "a minor inconvenience."

The poll was not taken in Alberta, rather it polled 1,000 CANADIANS. 

How is that one sided?


----------



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

SINC said:


> Quote:
> 
> "A Decima survey released in late August showed that 61 per cent of those polled said they felt no impact at all from the lockout, which began on Aug. 15. Only 10 per cent of 1,000 Canadians surveyed by phone from Aug. 18-21 said the dispute was "a major inconvenience." A further 27 per cent called it "a minor inconvenience."
> 
> ...


and Albertans aren't Canadians?
You learn something new everday.


----------



## Mugatu (Mar 31, 2005)

Fair enough da-jonesy. 

I'd like to hear more about Lil'Billy and his tractor. I watch much less news these days because it's fairly depressing (Iraq, the Liberals, the Conservatives, the constant bitching between those two, etc, etc, etc,).


----------



## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

SINC said:


> Quote:
> 
> "A Decima survey released in late August showed that 61 per cent of those polled said they felt no impact at all from the lockout, which began on Aug. 15. Only 10 per cent of 1,000 Canadians surveyed by phone from Aug. 18-21 said the dispute was "a major inconvenience." A further 27 per cent called it "a minor inconvenience."


Here is the link to that research report...

http://www.decima.com/en/pdf/news_releases/050829E.pdf

As I read it there is NOTHING in there that supports your arguments that the majority of Canadians feel that the CBC is a waste of tax dollars.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

There is also NOTHING to say it was done in Alberta as people allege. The fact remains that 61% of Canadians could care less.


----------



## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

Mugatu said:


> Fair enough da-jonesy.
> 
> I'd like to hear more about Lil'Billy and his tractor. I watch much less news these days because it's fairly depressing (Iraq, the Liberals, the Conservatives, the constant bitching between those two, etc, etc, etc,).


Actually CBC Radio One had a very cool interview with a Winnipeg based funeral home talking about the difference in funeral costs from the city as opposed to country.

It was very interesting that Lil'Billy on the tractor would pay less for his funeral (after he dies from BSE) in the rural setting as opposed to the urban setting. So much for economies of scale in the funeral industry.


----------



## Mugatu (Mar 31, 2005)

Missed that one. Radio's broke in the truck.


----------



## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

SINC said:


> There is also NOTHING to say it was done in Alberta as people allege. The fact remains that 61% of Canadians could care less.


61% of Canadians polled during the summer could care less DOES NOT equal the Majority of Canadians think the CBC is a waste of tax dollars.

I wonder how things would be different if that poll was taken in the spring when all the political firework in Ottawa were happening. Or how it would be different during hockey season.

START OpEd Rant

I want to infer that you do not think to highly of Canadians in general, that you want to paint us mindless cretins who do not care about the world around us and do not care about pastimes that bind our society together.

But that would be a stretch. C'mon Sinc join the club. Get on the Canadian bandwagon! Klien doesn't need you, we need you. Canada needs you. Join the club.

END OpEd Rant

Whew... I wish I knew where that came from.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

da_jonesy said:


> START OpEd Rant
> 
> I want to infer that you do not think to highly of Canadians in general, that you want to paint us mindless cretins who do not care about the world around us and do not care about pastimes that bind our society together.
> 
> ...


My loyalty to this country is extreme. I have been a Legion member for over 40 years.

What I like best about this country is the freedoms we enjoy, among them being the freedom to dislike the national broadcaster.

That dislike in no way detracts from my feelings for the country. Thus there is no club to join. Like I said it is my opinion, and mine alone the CBC is a waste of tax dollars. How many other Canadians feel the same way is unknown, but rest assured there are hundreds of thousands of them of like mind.


----------



## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Mugatu said:


> My point being that taking 2 million people and saying they all think and act the same way, good or bad, is pretty closed minded.
> 
> Nooooowww.... don't get your knickers in a knot. I'm sure you used it more as a figurative statement than actually trying to say that everyone in Alberta is full of bull****.... right?


We don't wear knickers in Quebec... as far as I know.

And to clarify, where did I claim everyone from Alberta was full of bullsh!t? I thought we were talking about SINC (as well as MacNutt -- but he's in SSI.) I'll break it down for you for clarification:



> But CBC having political slant? Virtually no audiences? Until they*1* offer something a wee bit more substantial... sorry, it's all just a load of Alberta, grain-fed, grade-A, bullsh!t.*2*


[1] The use of "they" refers to the people (on this board) who have voiced their belief, presently as well as in previous threads, that the CBC has a Liberal slant and have virutally no audiences.

[2]Alberta, grain-fed, grade-A, bullsh!t refers to the type of poop that would come from a grain-fed, grade-A bull that happened to be located in Alberta. I could have just said "load of bullsh!t" but I prefer to be a little more colourful. Since we are a Canadian board, I thought it would be appropos to use a more regional description. Hey, I support Alberta beef.


----------



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

SINC, I am still very confused and concerned about your comment; "I have no choice but to read Canwest as it owns the Edmonton Journal and Hollinger"

Do I need to buy you a subscription to the Gobe and Mail so you don't have to read the corporate pablum in the CanWest and Hollinger, ahem, "newspapers?"


----------



## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

SINC said:


> How many other Canadians feel the same way is unknown, but rest assured there are hundreds of thousands of them of like mind.


Hundreds of thousands I can live with. 

Sinc, lets look at it like this. What if there was no CBC or even worse no Canadian Content legislation. How long do you think we could keep our national identity with the media Juggernaut to the south? 

Before you answer try to put your pro US/republican feelings aside for a moment. You've seen the impact that the reduction in local CBC service has had in the rural west, how do you think the rest of the country would fare if there was only ABC, CBS, Fox and NBC?


----------



## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

« MannyP Design » said:


> [2]Alberta, grain-fed, grade-A, bullsh!t refers to the type of poop that would come from a grain-fed, grade-A bull that happened to be located in Alberta. I could have just said "load of bullsh!t" but I prefer to be a little more colourful. Since we are a Canadian board, I thought it would be appropos to use a more regional description. Hey, I support Alberta beef.


We have had disagreements in the past... but this rocks ROTFLMAO!


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

SINC said:


> There is also NOTHING to say it was done in Alberta as people allege. The fact remains that 61% of Canadians could care less.


Wrong.

It says that 61% were not impacted, *not* that they could care less. This means 61% of the people either: a) did not listen to CBC at all; b) continued to listen to CBC radio regardless of the lockout; c) had no idea there was no lockout; d) live on Mars where there is no CBC radio, therefore have no ability to listen to CBC either way; e) the lockout stopped you from living... the list can go on.

For instance -- where I work, we listen to CBC radio all day. We continued to listent to CBC radio during the lockout, therefore: The lockout did not have any impact to us.


----------



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> [2]Alberta, grain-fed, grade-A, bullsh!t refers to the type of poop that would come from a grain-fed, grade-A bull that happened to be located in Alberta. I could have just said "load of bullsh!t" but I prefer to be a little more colourful. Since we are a Canadian board, I thought it would be appropos to use a more regional description. Hey, I support Alberta beef.


appears that with the appearance of BSE, Alberta beef is anything BUT "grain-fed"


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

da_jonesy said:


> Hundreds of thousands I can live with.
> 
> Sinc, lets look at it like this. What if there was no CBC or even worse no Canadian Content legislation. How long do you think we could keep our national identity with the media Juggernaut to the south?
> 
> Before you answer try to put your pro US/republican feelings aside for a moment. You've seen the impact that the reduction in local CBC service has had in the rural west, how do you think the rest of the country would fare if there was only ABC, CBS, Fox and NBC?


 Just fine as long as we had CTV and Global.

And I am not pro US/republican. I despise Bush.


----------



## Mugatu (Mar 31, 2005)

« MannyP Design » said:


> Hey, I support Alberta beef.


*gasp* How could you kill an animal for food!

.
.
.

With a nail gun of course. *grins wickedly*

Sorry if I jumped on you about your Alberta comment. I just get po'd when people try to stereo type Alberta that way. We are changing away from our yahoo image (faster now that we have so many people coming in to suck on the oil teat) everyday. We still have our ********, but I wouldn't have it any other way.


----------



## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

SINC said:


> Just fine as long as we had CTV and Global.


I think we are getting somewhere... So then you agree that CanCon is a good thing?


----------



## Mugatu (Mar 31, 2005)

To post something on topic... The CBC is a waste of tax payers money but only in the sense that they are inherently wasteful... as are all government programs. It's just part of the gig. I'd prefer to have the CBC and waste a little money along the way myself.

I've never thought of the CBC as a social engineering on the Canadian public in a political way. Some of the programming is just horrible. Eg. Any of the Canadian awards shows. They're so badly done that I get embarrased watching them and have to change the channel.


----------



## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Mugatu said:


> Sorry if I jumped on you about your Alberta comment. I just get po'd when people try to sterio type Alberta that way. We are changing away from our yaahoo image (faster now that we have so many people coming in to suck on the oil teet) everyday. We still have our ********, but I wouldn't have it any other way.


Hey, my brother lived in Calgary for a little over 10 years -- LOVED it. Ironically, Calgary opened more doors for his skateboarding career than he thought possible -- even worked for the city teaching kids skateboarding and safety. Never had an apportunity to visit him, however. I also have two friends friend who just moved there (3 & 7 years ago) as well and another that went to Fort Wayneright [sic?] for military training. They all say the same thing: They loved it.

But it's not the Maritimes.


----------



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> Sorry if I jumped on you about your Alberta comment. I just get po'd when people try to sterio type Alberta that way. We are changing away from our yaahoo image (faster now that we have so many people coming in to suck on the oil teet) everyday. We still have our ********, but I wouldn't have it any other way.


Must ...
resist comment....
about Alberta public education.




> We still have our ********, but I wouldn't have it any other way.


why do you consider that a good thing?


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

da_jonesy said:


> I think we are getting somewhere... So then you agree that CanCon is a good thing?


Absolutely no argument there. Just as long as it doesn't come from a government controlled propaganda machine.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

« MannyP Design » said:


> I also have two friends friend who just moved there (3 & 7 years ago) as well and another that went to Fort Wayneright [sic?] for military training. They all say the same thing: They loved it.


For the record it is CFB Wainwright.


----------



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

SINC said:


> Absolutely no argument there. Just as long as it doesn't come from a government controlled propaganda machine.



CBC is now a propoganda machine?
Oye.


----------



## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

> Absolutely no argument there. Just as long as it doesn't come from a government controlled propaganda machine.


Which propaganda machine do you prefer? Private sector? Give me government anyday.


----------



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

mrjimmy said:


> Which propaganda machine do you prefer? Private sector? Give me government anyday.


yep, I have said it before and I'll say it again;
I trust big business less than I trust big gov't

Give me an over paid, under worked civil servant over a greedy, holier than thou, I know what's best, CEO anyday

I have much more in common with a civil servant (house, car, money) than I do with CEO


----------



## Mugatu (Mar 31, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> Must ...
> resist comment....
> about Alberta public education.


Oh no, typos! 



MACSPECTRUM said:


> why do you consider that a good thing?


Because they don't like people like you.


----------



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Mugatu said:


> Because they don't like people like you.


I employ "********" to cut my lawn, power wash my deck, etc.
I never knew they didn't "like me."


----------



## Mugatu (Mar 31, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> I employ "********" to cut my lawn, power wash my deck, etc.
> I never knew they didn't "like me."


Great, now blue collar workers are ********. You live in a small world MACSPECTRUM. Get out once and awhile. Maybe go and cut your own lawn? See what real work is like.

I'm done being off topic in this thread about the CBC. If you want to discuss this more, feel free to create a new thread.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

I am so glad that the CBC is back. Listening to local commercial radio and watching Global and CTV news on TV just shows me how good the CBC is.

On the local radio, the hourly news readers sound like right-wing editorialists. And the right-wing editorialists on these stations make no attempt at balance whatsoever. The only reason the CBC sounds left wing to some is because they don't immediately take up the right wing tone that is prevalent in most of the other commercial media. They're presentation is not generally left wing, just generally balanced.

I don't think that the CBC is perfect, I've been very critical of some of the things that they do and I believe that the budget cuts of the '90s showed in the overall quality of their broadcasts. But even crippled, the CBC is far, far better than the commercial media that is out there. 

Just my opinion, and I'm a Westerner, (although a left-coaster  )


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> Just my opinion, and I'm a Westerner, (although a left-coaster  )


Like you GA, I have my opinion on the CBC. And by the way, I respect your viewpoint. I just don't happen to agree with it is all. 

Odd how they jump all over me for my opinion when it doesn't suit their view though, isn't it?


----------



## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

SINC said:


> Like you GA, I have my opinion on the CBC. And by the way, I respect your viewpoint. I just don't happen to agree with it is all.
> 
> Odd how they jump all over me for my opinion when it doesn't suit their view though, isn't it?


Only when you misquote polls.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> SINC, I am still very confused and concerned about your comment; "I have no choice but to read Canwest as it owns the Edmonton Journal and Hollinger"
> 
> Do I need to buy you a subscription to the Gobe and Mail so you don't have to read the corporate pablum in the CanWest and Hollinger, ahem, "newspapers?"


No thanks Michael. The G & M would give me zero local news, and Canwest owned or not, the Edmonton Journal is a fine newspaper led by a passionate and gritty lady publisher whom I know, admire and respect. 

The fact my youngest son works there and many of my good friends do too helps my understanding of the paper and its policies.

God knows I can't depend on The Edmonton Sun for any balance.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sinc, The Edmonton Sun may not be a paper for "balance", but they did a great insert on Messier and his retirement. A very good friend of mine sent it to me because he knew that I was a Ranger and a Messier fan.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Dr.G. said:


> Sinc, The Edmonton Sun may not be a paper for "balance", but they did a great insert on Messier and his retirement. A very good friend of mine sent it to me because he knew that I was a Ranger and a Messier fan.


On the other hand, Dr. G., the Sun's sports coverage is second to none.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

SINC said:


> Like you GA, I have my opinion on the CBC. And by the way, I respect your viewpoint. I just don't happen to agree with it is all.
> 
> Odd how they jump all over me for my opinion when it doesn't suit their view though, isn't it?


I believe in arguing against the idea, not the person, but it is often difficult when people get all hot and bothered about something.

I don't see what possible value taking shots at Albertans is, since they are not a monolithic group. There may be a higher percentage of ******** in Alberta than Ontario or "The Left Coast", but the generalizations and stereotypes aren't reality. Anyway both Ontario, here and elsewhere have significant percentages of ********, I've been listening to them phoning the right-wing radio shows since the CBC has been on strike.

As a reminder to Easterners, something in the neighbourhood of 40% of Albertans did not vote for the Conservatives in the last election or for Klein in the last provincial election. ( *approximate figures only). Many of those people voted for Liberal and NDP candidates.

All that said SINC, it sounds to me like your interpretation of the poll you quoted is somewhat off base, and I think that those saying that here have a valid point. It may be your opinion that the CBC is irrelevant but I don't see how that poll really supports that opinion or can be used to prove it.

SINC, have you ever listened to Cross Country Checkup on Sundays on CBC radio? I challenge you to listen to that show and tell me it's left wing propaganda. The host, Rex Murphy, takes great pains to represent all points of view on an issue and to present the complete spectrum of political opinion, from looney right to looney left and everything in between and from all corners of the country. It beats any phone in show I've heard anywhere by a mile (oops, kilometre  )

The subject this Sunday will be is there too much politicking in disaster relief?. It can be heard 2pm to 4pm Mountain Time.


----------



## Mugatu (Mar 31, 2005)

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> SINC, have you ever listened to Cross Country Checkup on Sundays on CBC radio? I challenge you to listen to that show and tell me it's left wing propaganda. The host, Rex Murphy, takes great pains to represent all points of view on an issue and to present the complete spectrum of political opinion, from looney right to looney left and everything in between and from all corners of the country. It beats any phone in show I've heard anywhere by a mile (oops, kilometre  )


I travel between the Rockies and Calgary almost every Sunday afternoon and I almost always listen to Rex. He has no hesitation about calling out the looney left and the looney right. Good show, good host. I'd vote Rex for PM anyday.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> SINC, have you ever listened to Cross Country Checkup on Sundays on CBC radio? I challenge you to listen to that show and tell me it's left wing propaganda. The host, Rex Murphy, takes great pains to represent all points of view on an issue and to present the complete spectrum of political opinion, from looney right to looney left and everything in between and from all corners of the country. It beats any phone in show I've heard anywhere by a mile (oops, kilometre  )


GA, Rex is well known to me. I had the pleasure of meeting Rex in the smoking room of the Edmonton airport many years ago. We sat and chatted there and on the plane on the way to Toronto in side by side seats.

He was a pleasure to talk with and I found him to be bright and very witty.

That being said, I'm afraid my Sunday afternoons are not spent listening to any radio program. In the summers, I am out camping and in other seasons the tube is one for golf, football, baseball or whatever. While I can understand your enjoyment of the format, I find talk shows ghastly, CBC or not. Only the loonies seems to call and that is not worth listening to in my opinion.


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

SINC said:


> That being said, I'm afraid my Sunday afternoons are not spent listening to any radio program. In the summers, I am out camping and in other seasons the tube is one for golf, football, baseball or whatever. While I can understand your enjoyment of the format, I find talk shows ghastly, CBC or not. Only the loonies seems to call and that is not worth listening to in my opinion.


I agree about phone in shows, but in the case of Rex's show they screen the callers so that generally anyone who gets on air has a point to make that hasn't been covered previously. He also usually has a number of informed guests on to represent different sides of the particular issue. The level of the debate on his show is usually pretty high.

And thanks to the internet, you don't have to listen to it on Sundays. The CBC has a full archive of past shows available to listen to. There aren't any current ones right now, because of the strike, but you can check them out here.

I'm not trying to sell you on this show, just trying to let you know that I think there are things on the CBC that even an Alberta Conservative can like.  You might want to give it a try. On many of the shows they often have one caller on who states that the CBC is just Eastern Liberal propaganda, and I always think, "Hey dude, if that's really true, why is it that I'm listening to your rant?"


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

The CBC is oficially DEAD. Buried. Gonzola!

What's left of their shrunken management apparatchicks are now casting aroung for a new hook in order to justify that ONE BILLION DOLLAR BUDGET!!  

I'm betting that they can't come up with a single THIN!G!

Bye-bye CBC as-we-know-it....


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

Gerry, your constant farting worries me. Please see your doctor a.s.a.p.


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

> The CBC is oficially DEAD. Buried. Gonzola!


* yawn *

Did you hear something...? Naw, it must be the wind.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

MacNutt said:


> The CBC is oficially DEAD. Buried. Gonzola!
> 
> What's left of their shrunken management apparatchicks are now casting aroung for a new hook in order to justify that ONE BILLION DOLLAR BUDGET!!
> 
> ...


 Wow... um.

What's a THIN!G!?

I think MacNutt creamed in his pants with that last post.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

« MannyP Design » said:


> Wow... um.
> 
> What's a THIN!G!?
> 
> I think MacNutt creamed in his pants with that last post.



maybe not with his own "shrunken management"


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"Bye-bye CBC as-we-know-it...." I happen to agree with MacNutt on this one........except not as he intended this to be read. Our local CBC TV is back to an hour of local programming, whereas it was cut down to 1/2 with the other 1/2 hour devoted to national coverage. As well, new people have been hired on by CBC1 throughout the province for more indepth local radio coverage, and they are extending the reach of CBC2 into remote rural areas so that the whole province of NL may experience this fine music.

Yes, the CBC is changing for the better here in NL.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> I agree about phone in shows, but in the case of Rex's show they screen the callers so that generally anyone who gets on air has a point to make that hasn't been covered previously. He also usually has a number of informed guests on to represent different sides of the particular issue. The level of the debate on his show is usually pretty high.


Agreed. I am always impressed by the fairness this show embodies - you can phone in from anywhere in Canada and sound off, and the range of replies and thoughtful points is very impressive. I find it quite refreshing and inherently more egalitarian and democratic than any newspaper's attempts, even in the letters to the editor section. Rex does as best he can to handle the loons, through courtesy and quick dispatch. His show exemplifies the best of the CBC and in no way can I agree with it being biased toward any one thing. It's an excellent pulse-taker for the nation. We often listen to it when we're in the car running errands, or at home prepping an early dinner.

In print, in his Globe column, he's more of a clever wordsmith and his own political views come more sharply into focus. But his arch takes on matters of the day make him, in my book, essential reading.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Has MacNutt been reduced to trolling or has someone hacked his account?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Mugatu, Rex M. for PM would be a great idea. However, it would be a great loss for the CBC. His show is truly an educational experience and is quite balanced as to whom they have call in and speak on any given topic.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Dr.G. said:


> Mugatu, Rex M. for PM would be a great idea. However, it would be a great loss for the CBC. His show is truly an educational experience and is quite balanced as to whom they have call in and speak on any given topic.


Rex decided to run for office as a Liberal and a PC (back when they existed), to no avail.

reference


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Michael, I was here in NL for his two attempts at politics in the 80's. I had lunch with him one day at a local conference when, by chance, they ran out of meals for five people. Three people chose to use a voucher for outside of the hotel, but we chose to eat in the hotel. We ate quickly, but it was a fascinating 1/2 hour.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

da_jonesy said:


> Sinc, lets look at it like this. What if there was no CBC or even worse no Canadian Content legislation. How long do you think we could keep our national identity with the media Juggernaut to the south?


What if, indeed?

Does the radio/TV station make the people/country/content, or do the people/country/content make the radio/TV station? If the CBC suddenly disappears tomorrow, does that make you any less a Canadian? Is the only thing holding your fragile national identity together an inefficient, taxpayer supported broadcasting company? 

How very sad.  

With or without the CBC, I am a Canadian. Nothing can strip that from me. Not the Yanks, not the Russkies, no one. Period. My Canadian pride and heritage extends far beyond some pretentious harbinger of Canadiana.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

FeXL said:


> What if, indeed?
> 
> Does the radio/TV station make the people/country/content, or do the people/country/content make the radio/TV station? If the CBC suddenly disappears tomorrow, does that make you any less a Canadian? Is the only thing holding your fragile national identity together an inefficient, taxpayer supported broadcasting company?
> 
> ...


Imagine that. FeXL of the same mind as me. Whoda thunk it?


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

SINC said:


> Imagine that. FeXL of the same mind as me. Whoda thunk it?


just ask a few Canadians about "taking the fifth" in a court of law and you'll see the damage that can be done


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Michael, sad but all too true. "Street Legal" was no match for the onslaught of the "Law and Order" series of shows.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Dr.G. said:


> Michael, sad but all too true. "Street Legal" was no match for the onslaught of the "Law and Order" series of shows.


better "Street Legal" than become the 51st state of the union


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

This is actually why I like watching CBC news for certain international events. I am able to gain a Canadian perspective. For US in-depth news, I watch PBS, and for instant news, I watch CNN.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Dr.G. said:


> This is actually why I like watching CBC news for certain international events. I am able to gain a Canadian perspective. For US in-depth news, I watch PBS, and for instant news, I watch CNN.


for u.s. political analysis i like the sunday talk shows, in particular, george stephanopoulous
mclaughlin group is good too, but becoming all too predictable - he needs to change the cast of players

faux news is great comedy

CBC for daily int'l news and CNN if i want "breaking" stories ad nauseam


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"CNN if i want "breaking" stories ad nauseam". Michael, how very true. They can play out a "doxie in the well story" for days. I will watch for 20 minutes or so, and this is enough to get a sense of what happened.


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

How very interesting - 

It seems the divide between Conservatism and the Arts deepens:

From The CBC (of course):


> There is a new call from Republican circles to pull all federal funding to PBS and the National Endowment for the Arts.


This is a goodie:


> One report says that the endowment often ends up funding artists who are doing work that is questionable in its value and appropriateness.


For the full story go here:CBC story


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

This is a goodie:
Quote:
One report says that the endowment often ends up funding artists who are doing work that is questionable in its value and appropriateness. End quote.

The statement above certainly applies to many of the CBC's dreary arts programming. What a waste of air time.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sinc, if I recall, the CBC did a fine documentary on both the Alberta and Sask. Centennial celebrations. I actually learned a great deal about both provinces, and the courage of the people that first settled in both of these fine Canadian provinces.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Dr.G. said:


> "CNN if i want "breaking" stories ad nauseam". Michael, how very true. They can play out a "doxie in the well story" for days. I will watch for 20 minutes or so, and this is enough to get a sense of what happened.


mark (pun intended) the date and time - dr. g got tired of doxies

also check to see if hell has frozen over
i hear dick cheney has El Diablo on speed dial


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Michael, sad but true. After the first run through of a major story, I usually wait for breaking developments. My wife will watch for hours upon hours of certain stories (e.g., OJ in the white Ford, or the Diana crash). I have not become jaded, just tired of the constant array of stories about one incident from every which angle. I did not mind their 9/11 coverage, but the "doxie in the well" type stories that go on and on and on leave me cold. (Luckily, they got the doxie out of the well.)


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

after hearing you brag about the digging prowess of doxies, i am surprised said doxie didn't dig its way out of the well - oh well....


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Michael, it was later discovered to be an abandoned missle silo, built to withstand a nuclear blast. The doxie was nearly out when rescued. The US Army did not want this story released to show that their silo technology was not sufficient to protect a missle, so it was hushed up. 

Luckily, quality shows like "The Fifth Estate" still exist on CBC to demonstrate the power of journalism. I remember the piece they did on Dick Cheney scared the heck out of me seeing that this person is but a heartbeat away from the presidency.


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## bryanc (Jan 16, 2004)

Dr.G. said:


> Luckily, quality shows like "The Fifth Estate" still exist on CBC to demonstrate the power of journalism. I remember the piece they did on Dick Cheney scared the heck out of me seeing that this person is but a *heartbeat* away from the presidency.


(my emphasis)

ROTFLMAO!!! Funniest thing I've read in a long time. Thanks


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Dr.G. said:


> Luckily, quality shows like "The Fifth Estate" still exist on CBC to demonstrate the power of journalism. I remember the piece they did on Dick Cheney scared the heck out of me seeing that this person is but a heartbeat away from the presidency.


Dr. G., those were the days when the CBC had some substance to its content with the real Fifth Estate and of course CTV's W5 as well.

One man who hosted both programs on both networks back then was Eric Malling.

Eric attended the same high school I did and when the youngster graduated and was admitted to Carleton school of Journalism, but he spent every summer working for me as a cub reporter.

His parents and mine were friends and as a matter of fact, they were older than my parents though Eric was by five years my junior. Eric was an adopted child and much loved.

His well known problem with alcohol in his later years led to an early death in a fall down his basement stairs in his Toronto home.

He had a quick wit and a keen mind and if he were alive today, I might still watch the CBC. Sadly, it was he who told me so many stories of the problems inside the corporation that led me to abandon it so may years ago.

I recall meeting Eric in the Ottawa Press Club oh so many years ago when he was an underling to Charles Lynch and he and Chuck and I spent a glorious evening there discussing the state of journalism in Canada in the 70s.

Sorry, but I got carried away by nostalgia there for a bit. My apologies.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

SINC, thank you for that trip down memory lane.

I often wondered what happened to Eric Malling, I was unaware of his death. I am sorry for your loss.

I was a great fan of W5 when he hosted the show. After he no longer did, it certainly lost much of its luster. I stopped watching it shortly after he left.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I really liked Eric Malling's journalistic work. Especially after he'd finally left the CBC.

His series on how New Zealand dealt with the sudden downfall of their all-encompassing socialsitic system kept me watching every single installment. And many people in government today still refer to it as a "lesson in real-world economics"

Eric Malling lived for a while here on Salt Spring Island in the early nineties. And I met him many times. 

He was a mess by then. Pretty much always hammered when I saw him. Often riding a tiny moped with one lens of his glasses missing. Barely coherent much of the time.

Before that period...I was struck by how large and broad-shouldered he was. He always looked like a wussy little accountant on TV. In person he was rather tall. And not always very friendly, either. Especially when he was blasted. Which was most of the time, by then.

A complex guy, as they say.....


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Our local CBC TV news here in NL shall return to one hour. We had the highest rated CBC local news, on a per capita basis, and in the wisdom of the powers that be in the CBC, we were cut back to 1/2 an hour. Then they wondered why the ratings slipped. Now, in a week or so, it is back to an hour of local news from around the province of Newfoundland and Labrador. While I was against management's decision to lock out the workers, I am in favor of this move.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Dr. G., 
Sadly the bones of the CBC left in Edmonton can only muster a half hour for the whole province of Alberta. That is why it is a waste of tax money in our area. If you can't even be bothered to try to serve a metro area of over a million residents, you should be shut down IMHO. I know we don't agree on the total issue of CBC, does it not seem odd you can get an hour in a small city and we cannot?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sinc, does Calgary have its own CBC affiliate? It must, in that there are more people two to three times the people in Edmonton or Calgary than in all of NL.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Yes Dr. G., Calgary does indeed have its own CBC TV. Matter of fact a few years back they made Calgary our local news base if you can believe it. When viewers fell to a handful a day, they separated the two and now each city has a half hour. Pathetic if you ask me.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"Pathetic if you ask me." Sinc, on this we would agree. There is enough going on in each city and then the northern and southern section of the province to warrant both stations having a full hour. See what is taking place in early Nov., since maybe the expanded coverage will include Alberta as well as NL.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Being one of an open mind on change, I will adopt a wait and see attitude on your urging, Dr. G.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Maybe the changes in the hour local news shall go coast to coast. We shall see.


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