# Time Capsule question



## Black (Dec 13, 2007)

You might remember my thread from a few days on the subject of Boot Camp and Backup, well now i've found my backup: Time Capsule.

As i'm new to Mac and Time Capsule you can imagine i have a few questions, well i'll spare you with just one.

I know that i need a backdrive drive that is equal or greater than my current Mac harddrive (320Gb), so ofcourse the 500Gb Time Capsule would be sufficient. It is very unlikely that i will ever use all 320Gb of my harddrive space but let's just say hypothetically (sp?) that i do, *could i store other files other than backup files onto the remaining 180Gb of harddrive space of my Time Capsule?* I know this may seem like a dumb question, however it's better to know than to be unsure.


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## titans88 (Oct 3, 2007)

I'm interested in the same answer!


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## bzarhands (Jan 12, 2008)

Black said:


> *could i store other files other than backup files onto the remaining 180Gb of harddrive space of my Time Capsule?* I know this may seem like a dumb question, however it's better to know than to be unsure.


It's not the first time I've heard it asked, so it can't be a dumb question. 

The answer is yes, it is very simple to save files other than back-ups to Time Capsule, just like any other Time Machine partition. Backups are stored in a separate and obviously named folder. What you may find, however, is that other 180 GB eaten away as Time Machine does incremental backups. This leads to my question...

Time Machine has eaten away at all the free space on my external drive. I have some non-backup files on the drive, as well, though. I would like to delete my Time Machine saves and then divide the drive into two partitions. Can this be done without losing the non-backup, non-Time Machine files, or does it put my data at risk?


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## Thom (May 10, 2005)

I think you are asking if the TC drive can be partitioned. I hope someone can answer as I'd be interested in knowing as well.


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## madgunde (Mar 10, 2006)

Yes you can. Time Capsule acts just like AirDisk on the AirPort Extreme. It is visible as a fileshare and you can access it in the Finder just like any other shared disk, according to this article on TUAW.


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## madgunde (Mar 10, 2006)

Thom said:


> I think you are asking if the TC drive can be partitioned. I hope someone can answer as I'd be interested in knowing as well.


It's unclear whether it can be partitioned or not, the above article I linked to raised that question and they were unable to provide a clear answer on that. But you do not have to partition a hard disk in order to store other files on it, however, if your backup eventually fills all available disk space, then you won't be able to store any more data.

There is a hint on Mac OS X Hints that talks about resizing the Time Machine disk image to put an arbitrary cap on how large it can grow.


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## matriculated (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmm - from the article:


> Update: A further conversation at the Apple booth leads me to believe that you will *not* be able to partition the drive on the Time Capsule. If your purchase decisions are contingent on this capability, please wait until I can get a solid answer from the product manager at Apple on this. You could conceivably 'reserve' space on the TC by creating a disk image to hold your files, but I wouldn't recommend that unless you absolutely have to do it. A couple of contrary reports are saying that you cannot store other files on the TC drive, but everyone I've talked to says that it does mount as a regular wireless disk and you can write to it if needed.


I really wish that Time Capsule would just work with network shares.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2008)

Also don't forget the way that Time Machine works by default .. even if your drive only has 100G of stuff on it time machine will still fill the drive completely over time, and then delete the oldest backups as required for the space.

Long story short ... a 500G Time Capsule drive is probably best left alone to be a Time Machine backup. If you want other network storage I would suggest to keep it separate.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

mguertin said:


> Also don't forget the way that Time Machine works by default .. even if your drive only has 100G of stuff on it time machine will still fill the drive completely over time, and then delete the oldest backups as required for the space.


This is only partially true. You can set Time Machine to keep only "x" number of days' worth of rollback if you don't want it to (eventually) fill up the entire HD.


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## Black (Dec 13, 2007)

chas_m said:


> This is only partially true. You can set Time Machine to keep only "x" number of days' worth of rollback if you don't want it to (eventually) fill up the entire HD.


Extremely good to know, because i only planned on keeping 2 months worth of things. THANK YOU!


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## i stole this name (May 9, 2005)

chas_m said:


> This is only partially true. You can set Time Machine to keep only "x" number of days' worth of rollback if you don't want it to (eventually) fill up the entire HD.


How?


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2008)

chas_m said:


> This is only partially true. You can set Time Machine to keep only "x" number of days' worth of rollback if you don't want it to (eventually) fill up the entire HD.


That doesn't give you any kind of space usage cap though. Just to only keep x amount of days. By it's nature it's designed to fill up the hard drive. If it works out that x amount of days doesn't fill your drive then great, but there's no way to stop it from filling your drive.


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## Black (Dec 13, 2007)

If it only keeps X number of days worth of things on the hard drive, when X+1 days rolls around does it not delete the files on that extra day giving you a portion of unused hard drive space?


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2008)

Yes it does do things as you say Black ... but that still doesn't guarantee it's not going to use all your hard drive space. 

Here's an example ... say you start keeping a sparseimage hard drive backup (like a superduper/CCC drive image) on your drive that is 50G in size. It changes every day. If you let TM keep copies of that it would be 50G * x days for that file alone. That would give you 10 days worth of backup for that single file alone on your 500G time capsule. This is not meant to be a good real-world example, but to illustrate a point. If you have large files that change regularly it will eat up space quickly.

I'm not saying it _will_ take up all of your hard drive space for sure, but it could and you don't have a way to explicitly tell it not to (aside from juggling the sizes of your files it backs up and the number of days you keep them for).


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## Macinguelph (Oct 27, 2007)

I think that the individual user needs to determine his or her own needs for time machine back up. I personally am not a heavy user, so I have a CCC bootable copy on one partition of my external with a separate partition for time machine. Because I do not do anything too serious on a day to day basis, I have set my time machine partition at around 100 GB - smaller than my internal. Yes it will fill up fast, but it will continue to update and boot the older material off the disk. The size is limited by the HD space alloted.

I don't recommend this for everyone, but I am comfortable with this set up, and If I deleted something a few days ago, I can still retrieve it. A few months ago may be another story, but if it was deleted a few months ago, I've probably already forgotten about it anyway.


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## madgunde (Mar 10, 2006)

Some useful discussion on this hint about limiting the size of the Time Machine backup. Might help. Read the comments as well, several possible solutions are discussed.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

*Use Time Capsule don't use Time Machine*

I think the easiest solution to all these discussions is quite simple. Use Time Capsule, don't use Time Machine. Use SuperDuper (when it is Leopard ready, hopefully by the time Time Capsule is shipping) or Carbon Copy Cloner.

To me Time Machine has serious limitation in it's flexibility of usage (as most "automated " systems do). Also remember Time Machine effectively is a data back up system, not a true system backup. Also remember you can't boot off of a network drive.

You can use the OSX DVD in conjunction with Time Capsule, to REBUILD your system and that is presuming you have a functioning hard drive to rebuild to.

With a truly cloned backup such as with SuperDuper or Carbon Copy Cloner and a USB 2.0 or Firewire drive, you have a BOOTABLE backup of your entire system. As someone who uses their Mac for professional content production, having a backup solution that allows me to keep on working if my startup disk fails is the ONLY real solution. Time Machine is really only for home users who would otherwise not take the time to backup.

However, all that being said I still think that Time Capsule is a great product offering as a NAS with a 802.11n base station and USB expandability. I just will not use it in conjunction with Time Machine. Unless Apple changes how Time Machine functions I will never make use of it.


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2008)

> Time Machine is really only for home users who would otherwise not take the time to backup.


I think TM has a great place for the pro users as well. I use it to backup selected areas of my Documents folder ... it's a much much better solution than software like Retrospect for those "ooooops" moments when an important file gets deleted, or you want to easily go back to a version of the file from last week (or you want to compare last week's version to this weeks version). No other software that backs up changed versions of files that I've seen to date has an easier interface for retrieving your data.

I do agree that it's not a substitute for a full disk image that you can boot from, but TM can work together with those disk images quite nicely


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## Pat McCrotch (Jun 19, 2006)

madgunde said:


> Some useful discussion on this hint about limiting the size of the Time Machine backup. Might help. Read the comments as well, several possible solutions are discussed.


Wow. Bravo. Well done! :clap: That hint is hella convoluted but it's a really great solution! As soon as I get my replacement Macbook I'm going to do just that on my external HD. I'm guessing though that the limit of space you give to Time Machine has to be at least equal to the size of your internal HD, right?

That being said, I really like Time Machine for it's simplicity but I think it falls very short with "configurability". I think that Apple should retain TM's simple appearance and use but should include an "advanced settings" button keeping TM simple but slightly more "tweekable".

For example, I have a Macbook hooked to an external HD via firewire (which, according to steve job's keynote, is soooooo 2007!) and I would like a "backup upon connection" option. If my next scheduled backup is at 10:30 and I connect my notebook at 10:04, it will wait until 10:30 before backing up. However, 10:30 might be when I have to leave and need to take my Mac with me (unlikely but hypothetically speaking) so that means I have to interupt the backup, when it would have had plenty of time had it started when I first connected my HD. Again, I like TM but I hope they will add a few more features for added convenience.


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## meall (Aug 15, 2007)

I personally would like Apple to have a trade-in program for actual AP Extreme based station to this new Time capsule, unless they plan on releasing a firmware upgrade along with 10.2 that will permit this to be used with Air Disk!


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

meall said:


> I personally would like Apple to have a trade-in program for actual AP Extreme based station to this new Time capsule, unless they plan on releasing a firmware upgrade along with 10.2 that will permit this to be used with Air Disk!


I can see Apple having this kind of trade-in program... never.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

I can't even count on my fingers the number of times I wish I had a backup of a file from 7-21 days ago for work stuff because I deleted something that I want back from my CAD files. Time Machine certainly has its place at work.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

dona83 said:


> I can't even count on my fingers the number of times I wish I had a backup of a file from 7-21 days ago for work stuff because I deleted something that I want back from my CAD files. Time Machine certainly has its place at work.


Depends on how you work.

Any time I work on a file I always start off by saving it as a rev of the original file. If you can't count the number of times you wish you had a backup of a file you were working on, maybe it is time to change your work flow practices. Just a thought.


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## madgunde (Mar 10, 2006)

screature said:


> Depends on how you work.
> 
> Any time I work on a file I always start off by saving it as a rev of the original file. If you can't count the number of times you wish you had a backup of a file you were working on, maybe it is time to change your work flow practices. Just a thought.


But with Time Machine, they don't have to!


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## madgunde (Mar 10, 2006)

Pat McCrotch said:


> For example, I have a Macbook hooked to an external HD via firewire (which, according to steve job's keynote, is soooooo 2007!) and I would like a "backup upon connection" option. If my next scheduled backup is at 10:30 and I connect my notebook at 10:04, it will wait until 10:30 before backing up. However, 10:30 might be when I have to leave and need to take my Mac with me (unlikely but hypothetically speaking) so that means I have to interupt the backup, when it would have had plenty of time had it started when I first connected my HD. Again, I like TM but I hope they will add a few more features for added convenience.


You could just initiate a manual backup when you connect your MacBook. Right-click on the Time Machine icon in the dock and choose "Back Up Now". Also, I think by default, Time Machine initiates a backup immediately when it detects that your Time Machine volume is available and when scheduled backups have been missed. I seem to notice the Time Machine disk image being mounted within minutes of me getting home after work. Could just be a coincidence, but it makes sense they'd make it work that way.

That being said, sure, more options is always welcome. Look to the Mac OS X 10.5.2 Update (and future updates) to add more features.



meall said:


> I personally would like Apple to have a trade-in program for actual AP Extreme based station to this new Time capsule, unless they plan on releasing a firmware upgrade along with 10.2 that will permit this to be used with Air Disk!


From what I've read, this ability may be coming in the Mac OS X 10.5.2 Update. Be patient. 10.5.1 added the ability to use a network fileshare, so I'm sure they do plan to add it, but are having some issues that need to be ironed out.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

madgunde said:


> But with Time Machine, they don't have to!


Yes that is true! 

I guess I am just not a fan of Time Machine so far. It doesn't do the things I want it to in the way I need it to relative to my situation. I have one drive ( two drives RAIDed) as a system drive with no data on it, other than the system and then 13 (yes 13) other drives connected to the system for data and backup, over 2.5 terabytes in total. Time Machine can't help me. I have been backing up manually for so long now it is in my blood, plus I want/need a bootable backup system drive, not something I can rebuild from.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

screature said:


> I have been backing up manually for so long now it is in my blood, plus I want/need a bootable backup system drive, not something I can rebuild from.


I think that's the key differential between someone who needs/likes Time Machine and someone who doesn't.

Think for a moment about how incredibly rare a mindset like yours is, EVEN IN THIS BUNCH. Then imagine the general population of Mac users.

You may not use Time Machine, I may not use Time Machine, but MAN was there a need for Time Machine!!


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## jamesB (Jan 28, 2007)

screature said:


> Yes that is true!
> 
> I guess I am just not a fan of Time Machine so far. It doesn't do the things I want it to in the way I need it to relative to my situation. I have one drive ( two drives RAIDed) as a system drive with no data on it, other than the system and then 13 (yes 13) other drives connected to the system for data and backup, over 2.5 terabytes in total. Time Machine can't help me. I have been backing up manually for so long now it is in my blood, plus I want/need a bootable backup system drive, not something I can rebuild from.


I have an external FW drive with 4 partitions on which I maintain rotating bootable clones of my system, all made with Time Machine, so it can indeed be done.

jb.


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## madgunde (Mar 10, 2006)

screature said:


> Yes that is true!
> 
> I guess I am just not a fan of Time Machine so far. It doesn't do the things I want it to in the way I need it to relative to my situation. I have one drive ( two drives RAIDed) as a system drive with no data on it, other than the system and then 13 (yes 13) other drives connected to the system for data and backup, over 2.5 terabytes in total. Time Machine can't help me. I have been backing up manually for so long now it is in my blood, plus I want/need a bootable backup system drive, not something I can rebuild from.


Man, sounds like you really could use a nice RAID unit, or more specifically, two RAID units, one as a Time Machine backup of the other.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

jamesB said:


> I have an external FW drive with 4 partitions on which I maintain rotating bootable clones of my system, all made with Time Machine, so it can indeed be done.
> 
> jb.


How is it that your clones are bootable made with Time Machine?


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

madgunde said:


> Man, sounds like you really could use a nice RAID unit, or more specifically, two RAID units, one as a Time Machine backup of the other.


You know I planted a money tree a couple of years ago and it still isn't bearing fruit yet. Oh well hope springs eternal. :greedy:


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## jamesB (Jan 28, 2007)

screature said:


> How is it that your clones are bootable made with Time Machine?


Simply do a TM restore from the TM drive to a partition on the backup drive, I rename these cloned partitions using the current date.

jb


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