# New career?



## JCCanuck (Apr 17, 2005)

Well I'm at home today after being laid off yesterday at a print graphic company after many years. Been in the print business (more retail) over 35 years, 15 old school the rest computers. Now with some time off I'm looking into the rather dismal print market and thinking of other medias also. I'm am curious and looking into packaging design (that seems fairly prosperous now am I right?). I did learn web stuff years ago but decided to stick with print as a career. It's day one barely but you gotta start somewhere right?
My one question is after looking at my ipad is what do you call the designers on the ipad apps and other interactive medias? i know at my recent job that there were web designers of the web sites which then had the web builders do the technical stuff. 
Sorry I'm rambling on but just trying to get into a different gear now.
I am very proficient at anything on the computer and willing to "school" again.
Thanks!


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

It seems to me UX designers are doing very well. Just a sense I get being in this industry.


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## darkscot (Nov 13, 2003)

I'll second the UX suggestion. There will be a huge need for more ux designers very soon.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

indeed. I'm starting to contract out my development stuff and focus on UX and clients. I asked a few people this morning and they said yeah, UX baby!


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

...UX Designer





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


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## JAMG (Apr 1, 2003)

Print is not quite as dead as many industry pundits are predicting. Print is just getting smaller. Packaging is not going anywhere, direct mail and promotional material is doing fine (ish)... Magazines and newspapers are fighting for an profitable audience, but so are online media. Most users want free online content, not much profit there and no one has really, really figured out online advertising that really, really works, yet. Companies that still do print find it hard to find talent, as most in the last decade have been trying to learn web stuff which changes faster than you can study it, while few are bothering to learn prepress.

Personally, and I am just changing jobs myself, I find few prepress production jobs are actually advertised, openly. Most opportunities flow through freelance placement agencies. Design positions are all over the place, but then everyone is a designer these days.

Don't be in too big a rush to change your focus...but then web, interactive and print are just output destinations, indesign, Illustrator and Photoshop are the tools. Your knowledge and experience are what you bring to the table and get paid for.

Good luck.


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## OldeBullDust (Aug 22, 2010)

UX Designer - definition please.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

OldeBullDust said:


> UX Designer - definition please.


User experience--to make sure people accessing various websites do so in a fashion that is comfortable, efficient and functional.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

OldeBullDust said:


> UX Designer - definition please.


Watch the video, All is revealed.


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## a7mc (Dec 30, 2002)

I love how everyone is suggesting to jump on the UX bandwagon, because it's where the money is. What's going to happen in a year or two is the market is going to be over-saturated with a bunch of mediocre UX designers who followed the trend but shouldn't have. A real UX designer does everything. EVERYTHING. In software and web (which accounts for over 80% of the UX jobs), that means from initial idea generating, to concepts and mockups, to prototypes, to architecture, to helping build the software design, to data visualization, to graphic design and iconography, to full CSS, to usability. End to end, from the moment it's someone's idea to the moment a client is using it. That takes a special breed of person with the ability to think creatively AND technically. It's art combined with programming. It's not something someone just jumps into, and certainly not someone with zero programming knowledge (unless you are talking about UX from a physical product standpoint, and even then the person would need Industrial Design experience to produce Rapid Viz and SolidWorks ideas).

All that to say... I'm flattered my career is experiencing a boom and has a lot of interest. But can we not destroy it be cramming people with no true interest in the spirit of UX into the role? We're just going to segregate UX into a bunch of sub-fields and that will make my career suck.

A7

** Note: I'm not saying JCCanuck is not a good UX designer... I have no idea. Just saying you can't blindly suggest that complex a career off the cuff like that.


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## Gerk (Dec 21, 2012)

Indeed a7mc. We don't want/need it to be the next "desktop publishing" ... it does take a certain breed and a whole whackload of talents in various areas to pull it off. I've recently seen some self-proclaimed "UX Designers" that can't design their way out of a paper bag let alone make the code to back it up. It's kind of a variation on the "web programmer" that can't really do much more than install Wordpress and download a theme or two for it.


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## a7mc (Dec 30, 2002)

Gerk said:


> Indeed a7mc. We don't want/need it to be the next "desktop publishing" ...


It's funny... that's exactly what I was thinking of when I wrote my post. That, and "web designers" from the late 90's, where you either had nice looking pages with horrible code (graphic designers who suddenly wanted to be programmers), or nicely coded pages that looked horrible (programmers who suddenly wanted to be designers). 

Nonetheless, IF you have the wide range of skills required, it's a fantastically rewarding career to be in. I guess all we can do is cross our fingers and hope it stays this way.

A7


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## Gerk (Dec 21, 2012)

Well the proof is in the pudding, hopefully if lots of fast talkers enter the 'business' they exit just as quickly when they can't deliver  It's the same thing that people have been doing for years now (which finally seems to be trailing off)for SEO stuff. I don't know how many guys have approached clients of mine trying to sell them $30k SEO 'packages' (usually involving strange/shady blog postings on made-up sites and "social media" postings of who-knows-what with links back to them).

Also in the 90's there were a rare few of us that had well-coded sites that looked good too  We were typically just minimalists before our time -- when everyone wanted spinning baby gif's and midi music files playing in the background we were trying to tell them about whitespace and having clean layouts that could scale properly ... sigh.


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## JCCanuck (Apr 17, 2005)

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and keep them coming. I haven't touch web developing stuff in years since I was way too involved in the print media and lost track of the web stuff. So saying that, i have decided to still look for print related work (dismal as it is) plus learning html plus through courses and on my own. Taking up courses online/classes at Sheridan which is close to home. Why web again? At least 90% of the GD related jobs that i have seen ask not only for print experience but web. I guess it's two jobs for one now. I have 8 years left for retirement (blah!) and I'm really burnt out after 35 years but a total career change I would like to avoid if I can.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

well I'm one of the rare ones who can truly code, and design, and have done this for a very long time. But good UX design doesn't necessarily really coding skills, it helps to know what is possible. It only is a requirement if you are going to design it, and then code it. A front end guy. Small projects, small $$ with one, possibly 2/3 guys with backend type projects. But if you;re in a much larger situation, with ux designers, front end guys, etc etc, you don't have to be multi-tasked as much.

But as someone who can do both, it really really helps to be at least decent in CSS etc. as it it'll make you a way better UX designer.

But historically, I don't think you can do much about the people flooding in to what's hot. We're just beginning to see the emergence of horribly coded disaster interactive html5/JS/etc sites that are replacing flash.


Some things, unfortunately, just will never change.


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## Gerk (Dec 21, 2012)

Indeed groovetube, I'm one of the rare ones too. Knowing CSS and layout is a HUG help though, I've been handed some things that were "designed" that while looked good, were just not practical in terms of layout, or just not scalable, or only possibly across all browsers by slicing together a boatload of images, etc. Like a "UX Designer" insisting that the whole site be made using non-web fonts and insisting that "it works on my machine" and "if it's a problem just use images instead of text" ... ya, that's going to work really well for search engines or people that want/need to copy and paste some textual info from your site ...


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## a7mc (Dec 30, 2002)

> It only is a requirement if you are going to design it, and then code it. A front end guy. Small projects, small $$ with one, possibly 2/3 guys with backend type projects. But if you;re in a much larger situation, with ux designers, front end guys, etc etc, you don't have to be multi-tasked as much.


I would argue against this approach. Just like you, I'm one of the rare "dual brain" people too, and I work in a large-ish organization with front-end people, a few UX designers, and more. Regardless of the whole "it helps to understand what's possible" argument (which is very valid BTW), the biggest problem I see is that developers just don't see designs the way a designer does. When I started at my current employer, I would produce a high-level mockup, pixel perfect, and give it to the developer. They would go off and do the work and it would come back looking all wrong. Then I'd have to go to them and say "This should be this #333 instead of #222" and "Move this 2 pixels over". They look at me funny, because they can't see the difference. It's a huge waste of time. I've slowly worked away at them and now I'm doing the CSS on most projects. Give that job to the UX designer and it will come out exactly as designed, in less time, with better results. I certainly don't mean hacking away at JS code (though I can), but style changes really should be handled by the style experts, and that means knowing good CSS (CSS3, Compass and Sass, etc).

I realize not everyone shares this view, but if more UX designers took this approach, it would make the end result 1000% better. If not, we're going to end up with either formulaic designs that have no "soul" (all by the numbers), or designs that are "just good enough" (because the developer did the design).

A7


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

a7mc said:


> I would argue against this approach. Just like you, I'm one of the rare "dual brain" people too, and I work in a large-ish organization with front-end people, a few UX designers, and more. Regardless of the whole "it helps to understand what's possible" argument (which is very valid BTW), the biggest problem I see is that developers just don't see designs the way a designer does. When I started at my current employer, I would produce a high-level mockup, pixel perfect, and give it to the developer. They would go off and do the work and it would come back looking all wrong. Then I'd have to go to them and say "This should be this #333 instead of #222" and "Move this 2 pixels over". They look at me funny, because they can't see the difference. It's a huge waste of time. I've slowly worked away at them and now I'm doing the CSS on most projects. Give that job to the UX designer and it will come out exactly as designed, in less time, with better results. I certainly don't mean hacking away at JS code (though I can), but style changes really should be handled by the style experts, and that means knowing good CSS (CSS3, Compass and Sass, etc).
> 
> I realize not everyone shares this view, but if more UX designers took this approach, it would make the end result 1000% better. If not, we're going to end up with either formulaic designs that have no "soul" (all by the numbers), or designs that are "just good enough" (because the developer did the design).
> 
> A7


I'm with you on all of this. As someone who will spend more time tweaking what no one else likely sees, and takes the time to redo or reduce code in such a way as to reduce requests and/or footprint, that's the best way.

I just recognize after having worked with a few UX guys, that there some, non devs that can have a flair for UX design.

But I guess that's what makes great, and then not so great talent. I think we're far enough along in the evolutionary scale of the web (cloud? matrix? whaaaa?) that people often can see the difference between good UX design and crap.

Well, I hope so anyway


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## Gerk (Dec 21, 2012)

groovetube said:


> I'm with you on all of this. As someone who will spend more time tweaking what no one else likely sees, and takes the time to redo or reduce code in such a way as to reduce requests and/or footprint, that's the best way.
> 
> I just recognize after having worked with a few UX guys, that there some, non devs that can have a flair for UX design.
> 
> ...


LOL ... do you really think so? I think that 'crap' is very subjective ... I see sites that a lot of people would think are clean and have a great UX that I would call crap ... because I have to jump through freakin' hoops to find what I want or get the things done that I need to ... but maybe that's just me  Too many people confuse bling with a good UX.


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

Most people calling themselves UXers are just front end designers who have no idea what the term means. 

A User Centered Design process leads to Usability which is a precondition of a great User Experience. 

If you jump to designing page layouts without doing the necessary User research then I'm sorry, you are not a UX designer. 

The basic tools and techniques of User Centered Design can be found here: http://www.usability.gov/methods/index.html

Read up on the process before considering it as a career shift. I made the shift a few years ago from graphic design and branding and after my employer paid for me to be trained in usability and UX, it really is nothing like my previous work.

I love it. I hate the term because of all the posers that have started using it.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

TroutMaskReplica said:


> Most people calling themselves UXers are just front end designers who have no idea what the term means.
> 
> A User Centered Design process leads to Usability which is a precondition of a great User Experience.
> 
> ...



Excellent post.


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## G-Mo (Sep 26, 2007)

Gerk said:


> Like a "UX Designer" insisting that the whole site be made using non-web fonts and insisting that "it works on my machine" and "if it's a problem just use images instead of text" ... ya, that's going to work really well for search engines or people that want/need to copy and paste some textual info from your site ...


There are just about a million ways now to render custom (non-standard web) fonts site wide without impacting search engines and making it appear consistent cross browser/cross machine.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

I think he was referring to the use of image text, not webfont text, using services like typekit, webfonts, and various other free/cheap methods, which is is very wide use now.


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## Gerk (Dec 21, 2012)

G-Mo said:


> There are just about a million ways now to render custom (non-standard web) fonts site wide without impacting search engines and making it appear consistent cross browser/cross machine.


A million? Wow, that's a lot.

Yes I was referring to using images instead of text.


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## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

I'm not a designer or anything so my suggestions are limited to people I know and how they fair.

1. Print Broker? I deal with a guy who was referred to me who was a referral to him, and so and so on. Anyways he gives great personal service. Always hand delivers business cards, cheques, envelopes, whatever we have printed. There are much cheaper online services but he gives excellent service. I refer him all the time, and my referrals refer him. There is a need for such personal service imho.

2. SMB Web design? I don't know a lot about webdesign but all the firms I've dealt with or tried to deal will are always in the $5000+ for a website. They always want to produce something crazy expensive and/or do a branding exercise. I've been approached by many clients that want to change their traditional website to a wordpress based framework so they can edit it the site themselves on an ongoing basis... Economic times and whatnot people seem to want to not have to call a designer to update their contact info on their website or install a twitter feed, etc.

3. Higher end comsumer printing website? I get prints developed at Costco, Futureshop and Walmart and they are okay. My buddy recently ran some 8 x 10s for me on his Epson 3880. Wow I never knew how bad 14 cent prints were 

Good luck!!


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Honestly, 5k -is- around the SMB market. Less than that is reeeeeeeeally low for site unless you have someone install wordless, setup a prebuilt theme, and do some tweaks. You aren't going to get a custom built theme for less than 5k unless, a) the developer likes to work for scraps, or b), you aren't getting a real custom theme, you're getting a hacked one, which often ends in a boatload of hurt.

I know because part of my business comes from clients who tried to save a few bucks and ended up hacked, or with something that stopped functioning properly.


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## Gerk (Dec 21, 2012)

groovetube said:


> I know because part of my business comes from clients who tried to save a few bucks and ended up hacked, or with something that stopped functioning properly.


I do this sort of stuff a lot too, but in a bit of a different market from the Wordpress world, in custom web app design. You often get what you pay for -- or get considerably less than what you pay for it you're trying to do it on the cheap with Cragislist/Kijiji/someone's cousin or nephew type "programmers".

The cycle often goes like this: Give client a quote based on their spec, client goes into price shock at what it will cost to do it properly, client goes elsewhere trying to save money, client comes back one to two years later and asks if I can "fix" the stuff that the cheaper guys did that doesn't work, or finish the job that they never finished but billed double for. Often times the answer is "Yes, it can be fixed, but it will cost you more than it will to just build a new one that works."

I'm sure this stuff happens in the Wordpress type stuff too.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Yes it does. I once quoted for a big alcohol global site, it was a biggie, with a number to match. The agency flinched and hollered how could I charge that much. They got another quote, which was half of mine, done by a team that actually had some notoriety. At the end of the day, they ended up getting double billed, sued, and a year later the site was hacked.

So, I ended up getting the job anyway, and building the whole thing over wordpress properly. Problem free for 2 years now.

When I do wordpres work, of course I start with a completely blank theme, not a charactar of code anywhere. Hacking other themes will get you problems.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

groovetube said:


> So, I ended up getting the job anyway, and building the whole thing over wordpress properly. Problem free for 2 years now.


I hope the price went up further. You know --2 years later, everything goes up.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Indeed, it did.


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## ldphoto (Jul 9, 2009)

smashedbanana said:


> 3. Higher end comsumer printing website? I get prints developed at Costco, Futureshop and Walmart and they are okay. My buddy recently ran some 8 x 10s for me on his Epson 3880. Wow I never knew how bad 14 cent prints were
> Good luck!!


I do this on the side for local clients. Mostly from photo clubs and local artists. The right people will pay 30$ for a 12x16 that's really well done, colour-controlled and on the right paper. I don't think I could make a living doing this however.

I'm glad that my day job is in tech hardware... all of this software and font-end design makes my head hurt


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## absolutetotalgeek (Sep 18, 2005)

> Yes it does. I once quoted for a big alcohol global site, it was a biggie, with a number to match. The agency flinched and hollered how could I charge that much. They got another quote, which was half of mine, done by a team that actually had some notoriety. At the end of the day, they ended up getting double billed, sued, and a year later the site was hacked.


You just lose track of how many times this scenerio happens, and it's always just as damn funny to me every time. Web-dev is one of the most ridiculous industries out there, a never-ending source of amusement.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

I see clients making the same damn mistake over and over. If the budget isn't big enough, there are ways to build something effective, but you need to cut the fat big time.

But the number of times I've had to throw the baby out with the bathwater because of some crap adobe exported nonsense or cut up twenty ten themes or whatever quickie ram-it-out-the-door schemes I've seen, you're better off spending some extra and getting something done right.


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## gochi123 (Jul 4, 2013)

that video was great -- too bad it doesn't show you what a day to day job routine would look like.


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