# Are cheap cameras any good?



## Niteshooter

Every now and then I get that question at work. 

I think it greatly depends on the camera and what the person's needs are.

Anyhow to cut to the chase. I was zipping through a local Factory Direct store the other day and noticed they were clearing out the Kodak ZD 8612 IS camera.

Yeah I know, Kodak sucks but what the heck I'm old school so when I see a Schneider-KREUZNACH lens I take notice. Especially one that is 12x optical zoom and internally stabilized lens. 

Being the curious type I bought one, the good news is it takes pretty good pix. The bad news is it suffers from some wacky power requirements, though it takes AA batteries standard Alkaline batteries do not work correctly in this camera! Top that off with the recommendation that you use Lithium batteries and not NMHi rechargeables and suddenly the bloom is off the rose so to speak.

Anyhow here are a few test pix from today. The first is taken with my trusty SD1000 that I always carry with me to sketch with.



















Not bad detail, I took the original down from 480dpi to 100.










With full optical zoom and IS.










Also full optical zoom and IS plus digital zoom.










Full optical zoom only taken from same spot.










With macro.

All pix have only been resized, otherwise exactly as they came from the camera. Colour and sharpness is great.

As with all small cameras flash photography isn't the greatest. Factor in the weird
power issues I am having because I am using the wrong batteries and that makes things worse.

But for $119, if I can get on top of the power issues it's a pretty good little camera.

Kevin


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## Amiga2000HD

It looks like Kodak got the lens right, which is good considering that it is the most important part of the camera, but the power issues? Kodak blew it with a DC voltage regulator to keep a lid on alkaline batteries? Not good. I guess you could build an external battery holder with a simple regulation circuit tailored to the camera's specific needs and connect it to the camera's battery compartment terminals with a set of dummy AA batteries made out of wooden doweling etc. but that's just me speaking as an electronics engineer...

It does remind me of a lot of cameras that had meters with no regulator circuit that depended on the voltage characteristic of mercury cells as a known reference value. This worked because mercury cells produced pretty much a constant, flat voltage until they died unlike all the other kinds of batteries out there - especially alkaline ones that have big discharge curve from fresh to unusable - not at all flat. I remember when I first got into photography about 10 years ago, mercury cells had been discontinued and were getting hard to find and the owners of Canon FTb, F1 and similar cameras from other manufacturers were looking for workarounds for available batteries and hoarding mercury cells... I guess what's old is new again.


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## Niteshooter

Thanks for the ideas. I do shoot with Quantum 1 packs for my flash kit so making a modified dummy battery might be a good idea if plan A fails! 

I did some looking around and found Li-ion packs off eBay that are knock offs for $12 a pair shipping in out of the States. They may be ok or junk will have to see. 

Was at Wally World aka Walmart and found that they were clearing out the chargers for the Kodak Li-ion packs. Kodak PN K7500 for $9.95 so picked up one and am now waiting on the batteries.

There seems to be some variation between Walmarts as the one closest to us had the Kodak Li-ion packs for $36 while the one up in Markham had them for $26.

If I can get on top of the battery issues I might just carry this thing around instead of my G9 since it has a threaded lens so I can toss on 49mm filters.

K


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## EvanPitts

I'm surprised that the pictures are not much more grainy, and that you didn't have a barrel of problems getting it to work on a Mac - but then, this model isn't an EasyShare...


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## eMacMan

Amiga2000HD said:


> It looks like Kodak got the lens right, which is good considering that it is the most important part of the camera, but the power issues? Kodak blew it with a DC voltage regulator to keep a lid on alkaline batteries? Not good. I guess you could build an external battery holder with a simple regulation circuit tailored to the camera's specific needs and connect it to the camera's battery compartment terminals with a set of dummy AA batteries made out of wooden doweling etc. but that's just me speaking as an electronics engineer...
> 
> It does remind me of a lot of cameras that had meters with no regulator circuit that depended on the voltage characteristic of mercury cells as a known reference value. This worked because mercury cells produced pretty much a constant, flat voltage until they died unlike all the other kinds of batteries out there - especially alkaline ones that have big discharge curve from fresh to unusable - not at all flat. I remember when I first got into photography about 10 years ago, mercury cells had been discontinued and were getting hard to find and the owners of Canon FTb, F1 and similar cameras from other manufacturers were looking for workarounds for available batteries and hoarding mercury cells... I guess what's old is new again.


Main reason I went with Nikon. The wheatstone bridge metering in those old Nikormats kept on ticking long after other systems failed.


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## Guest

The bokeh looks fine (well better than fine for a $119 camera!) It seems to have decent glass, which most cheap cameras don't. In fact most cheap cameras don't even have glass LOL, plastic is just not the same when it comes to photography! With those power requirements you know why it landed at Factory Direct (most things that land there are not ... how shall I put it ... a rose in full bloom LOL). If you can get that worked out though hard to beat that price for real glass and IS.


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## Niteshooter

Pix so far are better than what I can get out of our Canon S5 IS but don't match my DSLR kit. Still for what it is, it is not bad.

No problems with working on pix on my Mac, granted I just bypassed the Kodak SW and load everything via my card reader. 

The lens is sharp, pix are through my office window looking north. First pic is full wide, second is full optical zoom and the last is at maximum optical zoom and full digital zoom. No enhancing or cropping just took the dpi down so the files won't be to large to download.

What is surprising is that the digital zoom shots are actually useable typically they are so pixilated that they are useless.

Think the last one could be a bit sharper if I had the camera on a tripod as hand holding introduces a LOT of shake even braced against the window.




























Now if my batteries would turn up....

K


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## Niteshooter

mguertin said:


> The bokeh looks fine (well better than fine for a $119 camera!) It seems to have decent glass, which most cheap cameras don't. In fact most cheap cameras don't even have glass LOL, plastic is just not the same when it comes to photography! With those power requirements you know why it landed at Factory Direct (most things that land there are not ... how shall I put it ... a rose in full bloom LOL). If you can get that worked out though hard to beat that price for real glass and IS.


It's the Schneider lens, that's what peaked my curiosity as I used to shoot with Schneider view camera lenses and I still use them in my darkroom on my 4x5 and 5x7 enlargers.

Yup, I suspect the people that bought the cameras expected them to be able to take more than 20-30 pix on a pair of standard AA batteries. Kodak says in the manual that regular AA's are not recommended for use but don't say why. They also don't mention NiMh batteries as having really short life either.

Sure hope my batteries turn up soon, would like to try this thing with some Infra red filters I used to use on my film cameras.

I've always had decent success with Factory Direct. I never go in there expecting to actually find what I'm looking for  and never expect any sort of help from the person behind the counter other than to get me the product.... 

I have bought couple of cameras from there, the Canon SD 1000 that I pack on my belt in a Crumpler cell phone pouch next to my cell phone and a Rebel XT for someone at work. Both are still going strong. 

Kevin


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## Niteshooter

Final installment....

Got my batteries from eBay the other day, they make a world of difference compared to the AA alkaline batteries I was suffering with. I've taken 4x the number of pix and still haven't had to recharge so its well worth the investment.

Fixed some of the weird quirks which were probably due to low voltages.










Above is a full frame shot, just sized down to fit on here. Camera set to auto and macro.










Another with full digital zoom, not really useable.

For what it is, it's not a bad camera don't think I would pack up my DSLR kit.... but in a pinch....

Kevin


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## preformalover

those shots are great


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## SMG

Great shots for a budget camera! I'm looking for a cheap camera myself to take whale watching this year. I'm scared of getting salt water in my DSLR.


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## SoyMac

Many of you will be familiar with Ken Rockwell. 
The title of this thread begs a link to Rockwell's site:

Your Camera Doesn't Matter


Here's another suggestion I'd like to make about "cheap" cameras;
Henry's (and probably many other stores, I'd reckon) sells used cameras - everything from tiny point-and-shoot models, to full-fledged, high-end DSLRs, and lenses of all kinds.

I picked up a used point-and-shoot Fuji at Henry's a year ago, and it's always in my pocket with me. Henry's provides pretty good warranties on their used gear. 
I always check their used selection whenever I'm in the store (way too often  )


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## Niteshooter

SoyMac said:


> Many of you will be familiar with Ken Rockwell.
> The title of this thread begs a link to Rockwell's site:
> 
> Your Camera Doesn't Matter
> 
> 
> Here's another suggestion I'd like to make about "cheap" cameras;
> Henry's (and probably many other stores, I'd reckon) sells used cameras - everything from tiny point-and-shoot models, to full-fledged, high-end DSLRs, and lenses of all kinds.
> 
> I picked up a used point-and-shoot Fuji at Henry's a year ago, and it's always in my pocket with me. Henry's provides pretty good warranties on their used gear.
> I always check their used selection whenever I'm in the store (way too often  )


Good article! Absolutely true, lots of folks get hung up on the technology and concentrate solely on the specifications, then go nuts when the camera doesn't 'work properly'...

Here's a secret about used gear at Henry's.... watch their eBay auctions as all the really cherry gear is being funneled there. I used to check out the main store on Church but it has been really slim pickings these days while their auctions have all the cherry stuff. 

Downside has been that all their prices are in US dollars however right now the loonie has gained a lot of ground so there are some really good deals right now.

If you do go downtown check out Henry's Clearance Outlet which is on Queen street just west of the main store at Church on the south side. Used to be the old location of Alt's Camera.

If you knew Stan from Broadway/Aden Camera on Yonge St he's hiding out at Downtown Camera which is another block west of the clearance outlet.

Always wondered what happened to Monty Paul aka Paul Shields who worked for us at Toronto Camera then at Alt's....

Anyone interested in another trick about used Canon Point and Shoots? 

Kevin


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## SoyMac

Niteshooter said:


> ...
> Here's a secret about used gear at Henry's.... watch their eBay auctions as all the really cherry gear is being funneled there. I used to check out the main store on Church but it has been really slim pickings these days while their auctions have all the cherry stuff. ....


Yep. Got a nice 50mm 1.4 prime from Henry's eBay store. Good for shipping and no duty or courier border "fees", since they shipped within Canada.



Niteshooter said:


> Anyone interested in another trick about used Canon Point and Shoots?
> 
> Kevin


Don't keep me waiting!!! :baby:


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## Niteshooter

SoyMac said:


> Yep. Got a nice 50mm 1.4 prime from Henry's eBay store. Good for shipping and no duty or courier border "fees", since they shipped within Canada.
> 
> Don't keep me waiting!!! :baby:




Most folks know about the recall on Sony produced CCD sensors on pretty much all the S1IS and similar 3.1 MP cameras. Well that recall is still in effect which means if you score a 'dead' camera which is showing purple tinged pix it qualifies for a free repair. There seems to be no time limit on this repair.... and it covers a pretty broad range of cameras both Canon and others. Granted most really aren't worth it now except the S1 IS IMHO..

If you get super lucky and Canon is short on parts which happened when our second S1 IS bought it they will replace it with an S5 IS. Though right now they are back to doing repairs so the pair of S1's. I snagged two off Henry's eBay store the other day got brand new optical units and a 3 month warranty. Granted the CCD is pretty much a lifetime warranty... 

Now the S2 IS is slightly trickier, it had a defect in the shutter mechanism which cased it to produce black pix. Canon is aware of this problem and if you get the right person they will do the repair for free as well. The depot is actually aware of this and put one of ours through last week for free. This also meant a brand new optical unit which in this case is the entire lens assy!

Don't go and do the online repair form as it's set up to try and make you pay for these repairs! Even the CCD recall cameras where spitting out $150 estimates when we 
tested out the system the other day....

K


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## dona83

Man what an ugly camera but man for the quality of the photos and the features and the price, man I wish I heard of this camera earlier.


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