# Women, Rape and the Death Penalty in Iran



## jasonwood (Oct 19, 2003)

Interesting article...

http://rutherford.org/articles_db/commentary.asp?record_id=392



> In March 2005, Nazanin, who was 17 at the time, and her niece were attacked by three men while walking in a park in Tehran, the capital of Iran. When the men began throwing stones at them, the girls were abandoned by their boyfriends, who left them alone to defend themselves from the brutality. Out of fear and panic, the girls did the only thing they knew to do—try to run away. Yet despite their desperate attempts to escape the grasps of the three ill-minded men, the young girls were caught, thrown to the ground and forced upon by the strangers attempting to rape them. Acting on instinct, Nazanin tried to protect herself and her niece. Drawing a knife she kept hidden beneath her clothing to guard against this type of attack, Nazanin stabbed one of the men in the chest as he was forcing himself upon her. Although Nazanin persists that she merely intended to use the knife to force the man off her, the stabbing resulted in the rapist’s death. Nazanin was subsequently arrested, charged and convicted for the death of the rapist and is sentenced to die by hanging.





> ...according to an Iranian doctor who has witnessed many state executions of women, women and girls are commonly raped by guards prior to their execution. Ostensibly, this practice ensures that the woman is not a virgin when she dies, thus preventing her from entering paradise





> Death sentences imposed on women in Iran are typically carried out by hanging or stoning. When a sentence calls for death by stoning, the woman is buried up to the shoulders, covered over the head and beaten to death with stones of a size dictated by Iranian law. Death by hanging typically involves either the use of a hydraulic crane or a low platform to ensure a slower, more painful death. A strong thin rope or steel cable in the form of a noose is placed around the neck to crush the larynx, inflicting as much pain as possible and prolonging the moment of death.


Some other articles covering this story:

http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5183

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Announcement/601081013.htm
It was refreshing to see that this article actually calls readers to action...



> Please ask your newspaper to report this story.
> 
> Please write to your MP and urge the Parliament in your country to condemn the Islamic regime of Iran for their misogyny, human rights violations and crime against humanity.
> 
> Please complain to the Office of High Commissioner of Human Rights [email protected] and ask them to pressure Iran to free Nazanin.


http://www.handsoffcain.org/azioniurgenti/

http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/document.do?id=ENGMDE130052006

http://www.nationalreview.com/lopez/lopez200603080844.asp


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

I'm sorry but that first story sounds a little bit made up. Their boyfriends abandonded them? To a band of roving horny men?


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Either made up or the worst translation ever with an eye to the tabloid crowd.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

0


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Demonization is alive and well.......in both countries


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## razz (Sep 21, 2003)

This is really horrific -- and disgusting.


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## The Great SNAFU (Jan 12, 2005)

*That Reminds Me Of*

An article in Saturday Night Magazine (may it Rest In Pieces  ) a few moons ago....

Written by a well known neo-con it was about a rape and brutal (I think 'savage' was the word used) stoning justice of the men involved.

I remember feeling sick after reading it. Not because of the rape. Not because of stoning of the rapists. Because of our righteous judgement of another culture and how here, where we are so much more 'humane' treat rapists better than rape victims by releasing them back into the public where they can be 'free'.
And that's, when there is actually a conviction. Think about how many go unpunished. Stoning is too good for them.


SNAFU Sad


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

The Great SNAFU said:


> And that's, when there is actually a conviction. Think about how many go unpunished. Stoning is too good for them.
> 
> 
> SNAFU Sad


And what do you want when there isn't a conviction?
Also, if stoning is too good, would you consider it an improvement over our current system (for the convicted)?
I don't know current sentencing, but there may be room for tougher sentences; I don't think there's room or reason for violent punishment though.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

The Great SNAFU said:


> An article in Saturday Night Magazine (may it Rest In Pieces  ) a few moons ago....
> 
> Written by a well known neo-con it was about a rape and brutal (I think 'savage' was the word used) stoning justice of the men involved.
> 
> ...


Our "righteous judgment" of another culture? Umm, yeah, with good bloody reason. Most of the Middle East is mired somewhere in the 12th Century, and while our system is flawed, it at least has the semblance of "justice" "free will" and other concepts foreign to a religious theocracy. Get your head out of your behind and realize that along the continuum we're doing pretty good.


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## The Great SNAFU (Jan 12, 2005)

imachungry said:


> Our "righteous judgment" of another culture? Umm, yeah, with good bloody reason. Most of the Middle East is mired somewhere in the 12th Century, and while our system is flawed, it at least has the semblance of "justice" "free will" and other concepts foreign to a religious theocracy. Get your head out of your behind and realize that along the continuum we're doing pretty good.


I rest my case.

Look, there is no reason to be racist.
One God by many names and all that.
Can you not, for a minute think outside the box and realize that in a parallel universe you have a twin (named Mohamed) that was raised completely different from you? Are you that narrow minded? Was the cold war not a reality check for you?

As for our report card here in Canada. Hmmmmmmm let's see, they say you can judge a person or a society on how it treats animals, children and the less-fortunate...

Third world-like conditions on native reserves, 12 year old boys raping girls and women, young men using guns in violent crimes against each other, raising animals so that they never see the light of day while eating each others feces and brians which develop into mad cow disease and avian flu.

Yep, we sure are a hell of a lot more superior alright.

I'd rather have my head up my ass and see the whole world (through my belly button  ) than have my head in the sand and pretend/ignore the flaws that make us all human and connected.


SNAFU Kill Kill Pussyat Kill


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

The Great SNAFU said:


> I rest my case.
> 
> Look, there is no reason to be racist.
> One God by many names and all that.
> ...


Um, okay. Typical hard left claptrap that equates the raping and stoning of women to a lax justice sytem. Sorry, not the same thing. At least we have things like rule of law, presumption of innocence, and separation of church and state. 

I suspect you're young and haven't travelled. If you had, you'd see Canada as an amazingly tolerant place, that has all the flaws of modernity that other places do.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

.


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## The Great SNAFU (Jan 12, 2005)

*Well Mr. MaGoo That's Where You're Wrong*



imachungry said:


> Um, okay. Typical hard left claptrap that equates the raping and stoning of women to a lax justice sytem. Sorry, not the same thing. At least we have things like rule of law, presumption of innocence, and separation of church and state.
> 
> I suspect you're young and haven't travelled. If you had, you'd see Canada as an amazingly tolerant place, that has all the flaws of modernity that other places do.


I'm older and I have traveled the world. I have seen that other cultures are different than us and that I should not judge them too harshly.

Me? A liberal leftist? :lmao: 

First time I've ever been accused of that but if you feel more comfortable sterotyping people for what they are not then I know you're not going to change unless you wake up in someone elses shoes someday.

I have terrible news for you, shocking even. :yikes: 
We do not live in a Black & White world.
The U.S.S.R. was not true communism, we do not live in a _purely_
democratic society (can you say appointed Senate?).
Harper can seperate church form state? Pedophiles are innocent before guilty? Have you not read the news lately?

We live in a grey world. Lines are crossed, double-crossed, blured and moved everyday to suit the high and powerful.

Yesterday the Russians were the bad guys and now all of a sudden the Islamic nations that have been practising their faith for eons are the baddies?

Tolerance is not just for our 'closed' society and selective, it is universal.
If you can't understand that then it is no wonder the world is in disarray.


SNAFU Toppo Gigo


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

HowEver said:


> First, the "news" story may be true, it may not. Who knows?
> 
> Second, your second paragraph contradicts your first. Either Canada and Iran et al all have the same flaws or they don't. Which is it?
> 
> ...


Listen, all human rights abuses are equally repulsive to us all. I was merely reminding the poster that to equate our system and its flaws to a place where women are routinely assaulted with the express consent of the majority is ridiculous and typical of hard lefties. Please.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

The Great SNAFU said:


> I'm older and I have traveled the world. I have seen that other cultures are different than us and that I should not judge them too harshly.
> 
> Me? A liberal leftist? :lmao:
> 
> ...


Man, you're all over the place. Lost interest in debating with you. Have a nice weekend.


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## The Great SNAFU (Jan 12, 2005)

*Taking The Low Road Eh?!*



imachungry said:


> Man, you're all over the place. Lost interest in debating with you. Have a nice weekend.


Yeller, low self-esteem or just plain old lack of inteligent thought patterns? 

Oh well, score another one for The Great  



SNAFU Happy St. Paddy's Day!!!


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Beej said:


> And what do you want when there isn't a conviction?
> Also, if stoning is too good, would you consider it an improvement over our current system (for the convicted)?
> I don't know current sentencing, but there may be room for tougher sentences; I don't think there's room or reason for violent punishment though.


SNAFU, could you address the questions from my post when you're done with your current discussion? I can't say we see eye-to-eye, or even anywhere close, but I'm still interested.


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## jasonwood (Oct 19, 2003)

HowEver said:


> First, the "news" story may be true, it may not. Who knows?
> 
> While I agree that Canada is a great place, and value our legal system and general tolerance, there is no way at this time to know if the Iranian stoning story is true, or if it is if parts of the story are not.


Well said. It is irresponsible to assert that the story is true or false based only on whether you think it's believable. I don't see anything in the story that makes it unlikely to be true, but I also realize that it's believability does not make it necessarily true.

I consider Amnesty International to be a reliable source and until I have more information, I think that makes the story more likely to be true than not. I'm not finding any news sources that deny the story.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/document.do?id=ENGMDE130052006

You also have to realize that Iran is not exactly forthcoming with details about the plight of women--and Nazanin, in particular--who have been sentenced to die, so just because something is not in mainstream news does not mean it should be disregarded.


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## The Great SNAFU (Jan 12, 2005)

Beej said:


> SNAFU, could you address the questions from my post when you're done with your current discussion? I can't say we see eye-to-eye, or even anywhere close, but I'm still interested.


Sorry Beej, I was dealing with the weak, I shall deal with the Beek 

What alternative is there to our justice system? I do have some expierience with it.
Are we to punish or reform?
It leans to more punishment than reform right now.
Going beyond the reformation of our penal system I think we should go back to prevention more than anything, however I digress...

If we look at Native-Canadian models of Victim-Accused attonement in a sentencing circle.
I think that is where we must go if we are to evolve into a more civilized society.
http://www.usask.ca/nativelaw/publications/jah/circle.html
Locking people up and leaving the courts, correctional institutions and police to decide everything is not doing it.
Did you know even with Bill C-41 (conditional sentencing), Canada has one the highest incarciration rates in the world? And the re-convictions atrocious.
http://www.johnhoward.ab.ca/PUB/A1.htm

Crime & punishment? An eye for an eye?
Victims rights are overlooked IMHO to give rights to the convicted.
Victims SHOULD be included in the sentencing and the reabilitation of the accused.


SNAFU In A Perfect World


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

The Great SNAFU said:


> What alternative is there to our justice system? I do have some expierience with it.


So, using the rape example, would there be limits on the victim's ability to define punishment and how do you convict (prove guilt) without some sort of trial? It would be great if we all worked together but, in case we don't (and many won't), how would you like to work out conviction and sentencing?


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## The Great SNAFU (Jan 12, 2005)

HowEver said:


> What percentage of sexual assaults actually end in a successful prosecution in Canada?


An excellent question HowE...

An very good read and maybe some answers...http://www.cpsa-acsp.ca/papers-2004/Sampert.pdf

While I do not agree with it whole heartedly it provides a basis for an argument that all is not black and white in our justice system (Crime & Punishment).

Many sex crimes go unreported, are difficult to keep records of.
Does that mean they don't happen?

Women are often ashamed and have no faith in the justice system. Never mind the men that never report it.

I'm sure it is the same in every society. When will it be safe to cry RAPE without being accused of something yourself?


SNAFU TV Movies Books VidoeGames CaveMan Graffitti


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## The Great SNAFU (Jan 12, 2005)

*Hmmmmmmmmmmm*



Beej said:


> So, using the rape example, would there be limits on the victim's ability to define punishment and how do you convict (prove guilt) without some sort of trial? It would be great if we all worked together but, in case we don't (and many won't), how would you like to work out conviction and sentencing?


Not saying we would do away with our own (whitemans?) trail justice system.
More like incorporate a progressive reabilitation.

Reabilitation not just for the accused but the victim as well.

I have a close friend that has been raped. She has lived with years of guilt and feelings of oppurtunities missed. We talk at length of what might have been. Back when it happened she was not strong enough but later realized it would have helped her to confront her accused. S part of the healing process.

I'm no psychologist so I don't know all the pros and cons of this. I do know it is important to face our fears.

After all, it's not what happens to us but how we deal with it.


SNAFU 1 2 Buckle My Shoe


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

The Great SNAFU said:


> Crime & punishment? An eye for an eye?
> Victims rights are overlooked IMHO to give rights to the convicted.
> Victims SHOULD be included in the sentencing and the reabilitation of the accused...


The following are the principles that are applied in sentencing in Canada. The importance of each depends on the offence and the particular circumstances of the case:
Punishment;
Protecting the public;
Specific deterrence - to deter the offender from reoffending;
General deterrence - to deter others from committing the crime (by making the consequences known);
Rehabilitation.

The impact on victims is considered as well, and victim impact statements have been a staple of sentencing submissions here for years.

To say it's all about retribution is very far from accurate.


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

The Great SNAFU said:


> Crime & punishment? An eye for an eye?
> Victims rights are overlooked IMHO to give rights to the convicted.
> Victims SHOULD be included in the sentencing and the reabilitation of the accused.


Most victims of crime do not want this. Most want to put the incident behind them not to have an on going relationship with their attacker or whatew ever.


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