# Internet: Cable vs. DSL



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

We currently have Rogers Hi-Speed (Cable), and when I download applications, (big ones - hundreds of megs in size), it'll usually start at around 380k/sec, and before it finishes, it'll be almost around 100k/sec or less. Depending on the server or how busy our Cable line is, I'll be downloading applications at dial-up speed, and it really annoys the crap out of me - I got High-Speed for a reason - so 100 MB files *don't* take more than an hour to download. 

One of biggest factors, so I think, is that Cable is shared with other users, so more activity, the slower downloads I get. DSL, on the other hand, Dedicated Service Line, is just that - dedicated. No sharing, no crap. 

How much faster is DSL over Cable? Obviously, it varies, but has anyone had Cable going faster than DSL? (and contrary to apparent popular belief, Cable is *not* DSL.)


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## Jordan (Jul 20, 2002)

Telus DSL in BC, here is some of the past speed tests for me:

004-09-12 18:33:53 Speed test @ dslreports.linkline.com 1249/510 kbps

2004-09-04 00:33:31 Speed test @ dslreports.linkline.com 1254/511 kbps

2004-09-03 01:34:23 Speed test @ dslreports.linkline.com 1251/473 kbps

2004-07-26 02:02:17 Speed test @ dslr-west1.megapath.net 1222/507 kbps


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

Cable internet, at least here in Vancouver, is higher speed than ADSL (Shaw is max 3Mbps vs. Telus 1.5 Mbps for the home connections).

The main advantage is that ADSL is consistent, whereas Shaw is variable depending on how many people in your neighbourhood are online. At 7:30, even if only a few people in the office are online, there is no telling how many people on your block are online.

Remember, though, that ADSL is limited by the distance from you to the switching station. The further away from it you are the slower your connection is. So depending on that distance, you may be better off with Cable.

Or, if it's available in your area, you could upgrade to the XTREME HIGH SPEEED OMG1!!1!! that Shaw and Rogers are offering now. 5Mbps download, and it's only around 10$ more per month.


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## iPetie (Nov 25, 2003)

Actually Lars,
The best thing to do is talk to your neighbors. See exactly what they get on what service. Cable is definately faster in theory but not always in reality.
For instance, when we lived in Calgary, DSL was the better way. Here in my neighborhood in Bolton, Rogers is consistent and very, very fast.
Find out when Rogers plans an upgrade in your area. Once the upgrade is done, (thet're doing it everywhere, I understand) your cable will scream and won't be subscriber base usage slowed.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

My network security conscious g/f prefers cable. She says that it's safer than DSL but I didn't really listen to the explanation.  

And as for upgrades, yep, if the level of service goes down, Rogers will do an upgrade in your area.


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## Johnny (Nov 14, 2002)

Another factor is the net connections. Sometimes you get a slow routing to the downloading server. If it starts out slow, sometimes it works to quit and start again. Has worked for me.

Johnny


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## Pelao (Oct 2, 2003)

Petie has a point - check with neighbours if you can.

We have sympatico DSL at home. Never goes down, and speed is consistent.

I chose Sympatico for this very reason - consistency. We download a lot of bigger files at what would be peak times. Slowdowns can be so frustrating.


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## Carl (Jun 7, 2003)

I hit 280 k/sec on DSL once (Bell sympatico), but most of the time it is only as fast as the other end. I would say, that on average, 50 to 125 k/sec is the norm. Once is a while you connect to a very fast line on the other end. If I do a test on a local server, I can get 1.7MB/sec, about 500 K upload. So cable is probably just the same.


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## Pylonman (Aug 16, 2004)

I've got the same situation. 
At work we use Rogers cable and it gets painfully slow  , even at 7:30am when there's only 2-5 employees. Also, at lunch time, it's real slow. If I try to upload multi web pages and graphics to our web site (using Dreamweaver) I constantly get kicked off. (I would say my folks 56 k modem is faster.) Also, for some unknown reason, I can't get online at certain times. Very frustrating, if sending a large ad (42 megs) to a printer and you can't connect FTP.

At home we have Telus ADSL. It's great and super fast all-the-time. Sometimes it goes down, maybe twice a year. The 24/7 support is OK, but the service people know little to nothing about Mac OS. If you mention you're using a Mac, you'll hear a "sign" and then "contact an Apple representative, blah, blah"

My co-worker has the Rogers Cable Lite Plan at home. She likes it says it's faster than at work. I wonder what DSL would be like sharing with 30 - 60 people.


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## Jordan (Jul 20, 2002)

I was on Shaw Cable for about 3 years, it's OK, but exactly what you said Lars, during the peak periods you can expect to have a slooow connection. I'm on Telus DSL now and it's been a continuous 1200k down and 600k up. I'm happy with it, a lot of people complain that they can't get the 2 or 3 megabit down like they can with Cable [sometimes] but then your not always downloading large files all the time, are we!


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## lindmar (Nov 13, 2003)

Where and what are you guys downloading getting 1200k!?!?!

My max ever was like 700k


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## farfisa (Nov 5, 2003)

I'm on Rogers Hi-Speed Extreme and the speed has been great. Not sure how many people have it my neighbourhood, but probably not too many--kind of an older crowd. 
I had Sympatico Hi-Speed and ditched it. A little static on the phone line was causing the internet connection to crap out, but it was still fine to use for a phone. They told me it would cost $65 to send someone to look at the line, and there would be additional charges if there were wiring problems inside the house (since Bell no longer has the monopoly on the residential phone services, everyone's responsible for their own internal wiring). 
I figured I could take that $65 and pay for my first month and a half of Rogers Hi-Speed...


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## bmovie (Jan 18, 2003)

I have been using Rogers now for 3 years and my speeds are good. Until recently I upgraded my Terayon Modem for the Motorola modem and NOW i get a steady 3mb!!!!!
Doesn't matter what time it is. Peak, non-peak...the rogers guy told me it's the modem, it opened up the pipe for me even more.
I had Bell DSL and wasn't getting close to the speeds as with Rogers.


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## _Outcast_ (Oct 17, 2003)

> DSL, on the other hand, Dedicated Service Line, is just that - dedicated.


Actually DSL stands for Digital Subscriber Line. Most residential and small business DSL is actually ADSL which is Asymetric Digital Subscriber Line meaning the upstream and downstream rates are different.

The problem with DSL is that it is really limited by the quality of the copper pair that your local telco is giving you. Theoretically it will operate at full bandwidth up to 18,000 ft. but in reality things aren't so rosy. Limiting factors are gauge of the wire used for the loop as well as things like load coils, bridge taps, etc. That's why the closer you are to the CO the better your service will be with DSL. But the A5 loops that Bell here provides for business customers seem to be quite dodgy at best. At least the ones they supply to their competition.  

Also, I think that currently DSL just scales better. Once your signal enters the CO it terminates right on the DSLAM and gets stuffed onto the ATM backbone, usually at an OC3 rate. I think Rogers has/had a lot of older routers and other equipment that were kind of shoehorned into the existing network even though they weren't well-suited to the task in order to offer service in a timely manner. It appears that they're going about overhauling their network presently so things should get better.

I guess the next big thing is going to be Gig-E. Should be fun.


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## iPetie (Nov 25, 2003)

Definately agree Outcast. Apparantly my neighborhood was one of the first Rogers did about a year ago. My speeds (extreme) are just that and there is never a slowdown for time of day.

2004-10-01 19:30:35 EST: 6017 / 542
Your download speed : 6162099 bps, or 6017 kbps.
A 752.2 KB/sec transfer rate.
Your upload speed : 555864 bps, or 542 kbps.

My DSL was about 2400/400 and was un-reliable. Rogers has not gone down (that I'm aware of)since I got it about 70 days ago.

When we first moved here 3 years ago we had Rogers high speed for about 3 months. I swear it was slower than dial-up so we moved to DSL.

So, it's all about were you live and the current rev. of your neighborhoods equipment.


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## _Outcast_ (Oct 17, 2003)

But aren't download speeds in applications like Safari reported as kilobytes per second and not kilobits? That would certainly account for the seeming discrepancy....


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

Not having any prior experience with Cable internet - I've found this thread very interesting and informative. Now I'm pondering whether to switch to Videotron cable later this Fall, or stick with my current Sympatico High Speed after all... oh, what to do, what to do...


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

My videotron speeds (regular 3Mbps, not extreme) have never gone down to ridiculous speeds...

3373 kbps down
735 kbps up

via http://speedtest.cogeco.net/


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## Carl (Jun 7, 2003)

If I go to dslreports, I get the same nonsense, showing my Bell DSL approaching a 2MBit download speed. Today it says 1.7MB. In the real world, you are lucky to find a 200 K/sec connection. Even Apple downloads rarely peak above 100k. So I don't know how cable can sell the idea of a 3MB line, when 1 is pushing it.
I personally do not believe the dsl test sites.
When I never see speed which is basically 8x 200K, I am suspicious. I would like to see a link to a site that is useful that can provide that kind of bandwidth. DSL says I can do it, but I think it would be fair to just divide that number by 7 or 8 for a real world value.


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## Spirits (Sep 11, 2005)

*Truth*

Everyone, listen to my post. I'm going to speak about Telus vs Shaw from a person who has been through both. I've posted some comments on other sites, but it seemed like when I attacked the service i've recently quit, they delete my message. So my post will be spread throughout all forum that speaks on behalf of "the better service", with traces of my messages avaliable for people to view after some sites deleted my evidence.

I'm a type of person who downloads a lot of animation. I confess, around 50gig / month using bittorrent with an average of 20-30k/sec on high speed internet from Shaw. If I get above 40k/sec, it immediately slow me down from 40k to around 9k, and then speed gradually builds up again from there. On June, I was cut from Shaw Cable. I called in, and they told me that i've been using an excess of 20 gigabyte. So trying my best to delay my time in switching to Shaw Extreme, I told them i'll stay with 30 gig / month. They gave me a deadline that if i download like that again, they'll cut me in August. I couldn't risk the cut in August mainly because my family is doing business in the internet and shaw says they'll cut me for 7 days on their first cut. So feeling responsible, I've decided to use shaw extreme in August with an addition of $10. When i dialed in, they even give me a free tv service for 3 consecutive months with the channels i wanted. Extreme internet + TV cable = $65. It was an amazing deal. So I've decided to get that Combo. Shaw was relatively quick in getting me on extreme cable. And they also set a date to install the TV service to replace Bell. It was very exciting for me because I can finally go above my 20-30k/sec, and in the meantime, save money. To my diappointment, my Shaw Extreme gave me a 5-10k/sec transfer. I gave it two days, it still got the same speed. I've had that happened before when i use highspeed internet, and unless i complain about the speed, they settle at that speed. I remember calling shaw 4-5 times to complain about my highspeed internet months back. They somehow got me to a better connection. I thought that was really strange. My conclusion was that unless you complain to shaw that your speed is slow, you wouldn't get the speed you wanted. So I thought to myself, i remember being controlled like that by shaw, what happens if I gave in and choose Shaw over Bell on my TV service? Then I'll have to settle for whatever speed they give me because they'll be in control of my TV service and internet service. So I called into Bell, check the price, called in to telus, checked the price. (Bell now has a better deal in some of the combo, but they dont' call you to tell you that, you call them.). Seeing the price and the deal, i've decided to not use Shaw.

I called in Telus, since I do not own the house, they, the telus representative - i can almost use the word... PREVENT me from registering telus' service. I expected telus to be rude due to the many posts that speaks about telus' customer service & the recent lockout strike. They say that the person registered for telus' phone service (we use their phone service) or their spouse must be the person who register for telus' high speed internet service, or else they couldn't ensure that the owner really wanted high speed internet. I think to myself, I am the son!! And I'm trying to add a service to telus!!! I PAY THE BILL!!!!!! I want to do this all by myself. I told telus that my Dad is out of the country. They told me that he MUST BE the one speaking, so even though he's out of the country, ask that he use long distance to call. (Stupid isn't it?) First attempt failed. Second attempt, i got a different representative, they asked for the spouse of my dad, so i gave it to my mom despite her english handicap. So i got her to say "yes, yes, yes". It fustrated her because telus kept telling my mother to hold on, and it always holds for 10 minutes before they speak again. I got yelled by my mother because of it. Then came the ingenuine Telus representitive. They told her that it was $29.95 / month for high speed internet on the first 6 months and $36.95 / month onward. And here I am, using shaw's service, staring at the screen. http://www.mytelus.com/internet/highspeed/prices.do#content2 . [telus high speed internet] [First 6 months @$24.95/mo] . I told her I'm staring at the screen that says $24.95 / month. She goes "Oh, you got internet sevice? What are you using? Okay, we got a special service for people switching from shaw to telus. And that is $24.95 blah blah blah." Another lesson: if you're currently not using internet service and wants to use telus, tell them that you're looking at a telus' screen that says they have the $24.95 / month deal for the first 6 months. And yea, tell them you're switching from shaw to telus. They may ask for your shaw email, make up a name. say something like l d i e at shaw something something something. Or simply tell them that you know of this service that cost $24.95 for the first 6 months from a friend.

In that 10 days, I told shaw i'll be cancelling their service, and i insisted. The next few days, i somehow got up to 90k/sec at night. Ahah, they're controlling your speed. And they chose to give me that speed after i told them i'm going to cancel it. Okay, i have to be objective. It may have took longer for shaw to switch from high speed to extreme. But the representitive did say that the switch was immediate. 

Okay, within 10 days, i got my telus cable, everything all activated & ready. They say it might take longer to be installed due to the strike; it was on time. I immidiately tried the download speed. Bittorrent: 80k/sec. At night, 150k/sec. Why the heck didn't i switch from shaw to telus in the first place????? Reason: I gave in to people's opinion regarding telus' "slow speed compared to shaw" "Vancouver is monopolized by two bad internet services". I gave in to it, but it got so uncomfortable staying within shaw's service that I HAVE TO SWITCH WHETHER TELUS IS GOOD OR NOT. They pissed me off when i switched to extreme and got 10k/sec. And the more you complain the faster speed you get. It's ridiculous. 

Another bonus to my story was that I bought Linksys Wireless Router 54G a few months ago, and for some reason, it wasn't working properly and i always get cut for odd reasons, tried everything to solve it with linksys' customer service, but couldn't be resolved, so i put it away. After i switched to telus, I tried it again, and it worked. So it was Shaw's fault that I couldn't use the router. Now I can use wireless for my laptop and I can use telus service to get up to 150k/sec at night CONSISTENTLY downloading anime and audiobooks!!!! For those of you who are currently in shaw and thinks that telus's 150k/sec is slow, then you may want to get yourself the 250k/sec combo. I personally don't need that high.

Shaw has good representatives, trying to defend from shaw's standpoint, but BAD BAD INTERNET SERVICE) And for those people who isn't yet limited to shaw's limiting system yet, it will get to you.

I will be spreading this information to every single website that compares Shaw & Telus. I've so had it with shaw, and I know many people are experencing problems with Shaw's limiting system but have listened to how telus have slow service, which is not true. I've noticed that some websites will delete the message that speaks negatively about Shaw. If i spread this message to every website on Telus VS Shaw, i can get my message across to everyone across Vancouver who is sufficating from Shaw's bad service.


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

Lars said:


> We currently have Rogers Hi-Speed (Cable), and when I download applications, (big ones - hundreds of megs in size), it'll usually start at around 380k/sec, and before it finishes, it'll be almost around 100k/sec or less. Depending on the server or how busy our Cable line is, I'll be downloading applications at dial-up speed, and it really annoys the crap out of me - I got High-Speed for a reason - so 100 MB files *don't* take more than an hour to download.
> 
> One of biggest factors, so I think, is that Cable is shared with other users, so more activity, the slower downloads I get. DSL, on the other hand, Dedicated Service Line, is just that - dedicated. No sharing, no crap.
> 
> How much faster is DSL over Cable? Obviously, it varies, but has anyone had Cable going faster than DSL? (and contrary to apparent popular belief, Cable is *not* DSL.)


DSL isn't "Dedicated Service Line" and in fact.. DSL is actually set up like a big LAN with repeaters for it to run fast. The closer you are to the main hub, the better the speed. In Halifax, Lars, from experience.. Eastlink is far faster than Aliant. DSL actually stands for "Digital Subscriber Line."

I'm currently getting a 5MBit (Thought it was 10, but I need to pay $10 more a month ) connection from Eastlink. And it's pretty constant.. Upload is around 1Mbit. However, this is in Sydney.. I'm not sure what their speeds are like in Hali anymore.

When I was in Halifax, I used both.. I found Eastlink to be quite a bit faster and more reliable. Things may have changed since then, it's almost 3 years now.

Just thought this may help a bit.


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

http://computer.howstuffworks.com/dsl.htm Little information on DSL and how it works.


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

I think Cable is the better option...

This what I just got from Cogeco.

2005-09-11 19:06:05 EST: 3063 / 602
Your download speed : 3137383 bps, or 3063 kbps.
A 382.9 KB/sec transfer rate.
Your upload speed : 616712 bps, or 602 kbps.

I'm on the regular plan.


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## billwong (Jan 6, 2002)

Hi have Rogers HiSpeed Extreme in Toronto. Here's what I just got on SpeedTest:

2005-09-11 19:42:01 EST: 4592 / 785
Your download speed : 4703099 bps, or 4592 kbps.
A 574.1 KB/sec transfer rate.
Your upload speed : 804343 bps, or 785 kbps.

I'm happy with my Rogers Cable!

Bill


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

2005-09-11 20:00:42 EST: 5571 / 909
Your download speed : 5705063 bps, or 5571 kbps.
A 696.4 KB/sec transfer rate.
Your upload speed : 931604 bps, or 909 kbps.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Well, there's 10 minutes of my life I wont get back.

I'd go with DSL, unless you are too far from the central station. The DSL company will tell you if this is the case.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

The Doug said:


> Not having any prior experience with Cable internet - I've found this thread very interesting and informative. Now I'm pondering whether to switch to Videotron cable later this Fall, or stick with my current Sympatico High Speed after all... oh, what to do, what to do...


As pointed out, Cable will slow down when you have many heavy users in your neighbourhood using it. Videotron does an excellent job with their service and has always been faster than Bell ADSL which seems to suffer from severe latency.
I have yet to see ADSL be faster than cable. 

You may want to consider the following.
http://www.webopedia.com/DidYouKnow/Internet/2005/cable_vs_dsl.asp


> Cable vs. DSL: The Speeds
> The topic of "which is better and faster" has been a highly debated topic, and still there doesn't appear to be a clear winner. DSL offers users a choice of speeds ranging from 144 Kbps to 1.5Mbps. Cable modem download speeds are typically up to 2 times faster than 1.5Mbps DSL, but the reason there is no clear speed winner is because cable technology is based on shared bandwidth, with many factors influencing a users download speed. With shared bandwidth the speed fluctuates depending on the number of subscribers on the network. With DSL, the connection is yours and not shared, and you tend to have a more constant speed. This is one reason why cable Internet providers don't often publish speed information. In more rural areas with fewer subscribers, you're bound to have faster download speeds than a subscriber in a metropolitan center. Because cable modem speeds fluctuate, it is difficult to gauge an exact download speed. On the upload stream, however, cable and DSL are closely matched for speed. Both DSL and cable Internet speeds are largely dependant on the service provider and either the distance away from the switching station you are or how many subscribers are in your immediate area.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Lars said:


> How much faster is DSL over Cable? Obviously, it varies, but has anyone had Cable going faster than DSL? (and contrary to apparent popular belief, Cable is *not* DSL.)


Sorry Lars - our cable has always been faster than ADSL Even bonded ADSL was not all that great...
Furthermore, in theory, Cable is supposed to be faster....

Doug, I'm uploading typical speed results. Seems that Rogers is better than Bell and Videotron the speed winner. I don't have the extreme speed package.

And for some real world results 
http://performance.toast.net/fastestisps.asp


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## Tait Kahray (Jan 22, 2004)

My 3+ years of experience with Videotron high speed has been consistently fast annd reliable. I don't know how loin de Montréal you are, The Doug, but cable in my part of the West Island is a Good Thing.

Bell couldn't even get to me when I was shopping for high speed and they're local cables are noisy when wet.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Tait Kahray said:


> I don't know how loin de Montréal you are, The Doug, but cable in my part of the West Island is a Good Thing.
> 
> Bell couldn't even get to me when I was shopping for high speed and they're local cables are noisy when wet.


I'm out in Notre-Dame-de-L'ile-Perrot and I'm getting the above posted speeds.


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## Howard2k (Feb 9, 2005)

IronMac said:


> My network security conscious g/f prefers cable. She says that it's safer than DSL but I didn't really listen to the explanation.
> 
> And as for upgrades, yep, if the level of service goes down, Rogers will do an upgrade in your area.



I'd love to get an explanation for that if you don't mind.


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## Howard2k (Feb 9, 2005)

_Outcast_ said:


> Actually DSL stands for Digital Subscriber Line. Most residential and small business DSL is actually ADSL which is Asymetric Digital Subscriber Line meaning the upstream and downstream rates are different.
> 
> The problem with DSL is that it is really limited by the quality of the copper pair that your local telco is giving you. Theoretically it will operate at full bandwidth up to 18,000 ft. but in reality things aren't so rosy. Limiting factors are gauge of the wire used for the loop as well as things like load coils, bridge taps, etc. That's why the closer you are to the CO the better your service will be with DSL. But the A5 loops that Bell here provides for business customers seem to be quite dodgy at best. At least the ones they supply to their competition.
> 
> ...



Awesome explanation. Don't forget that the next gen DSL services are coming. One major telco in Canada is considering ADSL2+ as a delivery mechanism for HDTV services. Both increased reach - AND - substantially higher bandwidth.


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## Howard2k (Feb 9, 2005)

Carl said:


> If I go to dslreports, I get the same nonsense, showing my Bell DSL approaching a 2MBit download speed. Today it says 1.7MB. In the real world, you are lucky to find a 200 K/sec connection. Even Apple downloads rarely peak above 100k. So I don't know how cable can sell the idea of a 3MB line, when 1 is pushing it.
> I personally do not believe the dsl test sites.
> When I never see speed which is basically 8x 200K, I am suspicious. I would like to see a link to a site that is useful that can provide that kind of bandwidth. DSL says I can do it, but I think it would be fair to just divide that number by 7 or 8 for a real world value.


The reason that you're dividing by 7 or 8 is because you are mixing up KB and Kb.


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## Howard2k (Feb 9, 2005)

Vexel said:


> DSL isn't "Dedicated Service Line" and in fact.. DSL is actually set up like a big LAN with repeaters for it to run fast.


Nope, it's just a copper line back to the DSLAM in the nearest Central Office and then it rides over the ATM or IP Backbone.


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