# The MacBook Pro poll



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Figured since Apple is testing the water with a $2200 Air  we'd see where people are leaning

The power is essentially neutral.

The new ones have superb screens and apparently less glare but have some bits missing and no upgrades at least for now. Much lighter and nice Bling.

New standard have matte hi-rez as an option and are less money and easy to upgrade in various ways. Heavier of course and only you know you have a sleeper 

Appreciate info on what guided or is guiding your choice.
Also if ability to run 10.6.8 is a factor.


----------



## hbp (Apr 18, 2007)

TBH this seems like one of those in-between updates... was too risky for Apple to switch to all retina/no ODD/all flash MBPs, so they have a bunch of different models (which is not really Apple's style).

I'll wait till the next generation RMBPs before I start lusting for a new laptop.


----------



## greensuperman32 (Mar 28, 2005)

Personally the fact that as a student there is really only a $300 difference between the base model normal MBP and the base model Retina MBP and I get twice the ram, twice the video memory, the crazy high resolution, the flash drive speed, and it makes my backpack lighter makes the Retina MBP a no brainer for me especially since I won't miss the optical drive or any of the ports they removed.


----------



## Chimpur (May 1, 2009)

It's similar to what they did with the Air when it was brand new. They had it running alongside the regular polycarbonate MacBooks and it had a price premium compared to the then standard MacBooks. Seems it was a successful way of introducing a new product line.


----------



## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

I'm in the market for a new MBP - my 2007 model (2.33GHz) is definitely showing its age, and the 3GB of addressable RAM limitation is becoming increasingly irksome.

I was quite excited about the Retina display on the new MBPs - but I'm not particularly happy about the inability to upgrade the drive or the RAM myself. And I'm really not happy about a piddly little 512GB SSD, with the option to pay a staggering $500 MORE for another 256GB. I *do* know that I need to spend some time weeding out my excess photo files etc. etc., but I'm not sure I'm going to manage to reduce it all by half, which I'd need to do if I wanted to have the new MBP more or less mirror my Mac Pro, as it does now.

I love the Retina display on the iPad (I had custody of a friend's for a few days recently) - it really is stunningly beautiful, but perhaps I should just get the MBP that will give me a little more future-proofing. 

If I was going to get the RMBP, I'd add the 16GB of RAM and I'd definitely want the 512GB drive, so that necessitates buying the top of the line model...$3029.00 + 13% tax. Sheesh.

The fastest MBP, with 750GB 7200 RPM HD, 8GB of RAM and the matte high-res display would be $2379.00 + tax. And it has ethernet (sorry - it's way faster than wireless and the microwave doesn't interrupt downloads!) and Firewire. Yeah...those Retina displays sure are pretty, and less weight _is_ nice, but...I'm starting to lean the other way.


----------



## hbp (Apr 18, 2007)

Chimpur said:


> It's similar to what they did with the Air when it was brand new. They had it running alongside the regular polycarbonate MacBooks and it had a price premium compared to the then standard MacBooks. Seems it was a successful way of introducing a new product line.


I agree, a nice way to introduce the line... but we all know the original Airs were overpriced/underspec'd compared to the later models. 2nd gen!!!!


----------



## cap10subtext (Oct 13, 2005)

I can say that it's the first 15" I've ever been more than a little tempted to get but I still think a maxed out 11" or 13" is better suited to me.

The new design is boss and the standard hdmi port is long overdue methinks.


----------



##  Dumpling (May 28, 2010)

Sitting tight until the dust settles. Really love the retina version but I want to make 100% sure I really "need" it before I make such a big investment. A year from now we could see the 13" version and prices drop as the technology spreads through the line. I never wanted a notebook more than I want the new MPB. The base configuration with the 16GB of RAM upgrade would be excellent for me for years to come.


----------



## saxamaphone (May 18, 2004)

RMBP all the way... gonna be hard to look at another display after that though


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Just got a new MBP in December with 480 GB SSD. No decision to make for another 18 months when lease ends and I buy it out for $10.


----------



## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

iFixit has (already!) posted their teardown and the conclusions are interesting:


MacBook Air 13" Mid 2012 Repairability Score: 1 out of 10 (10 is easiest to repair).
Proprietary pentalobe screws prevent you from gaining access to anything inside.
As in the MacBook Air, the RAM is soldered to the logic board. Max out at 16GB now, or forever hold your peace—you can't upgrade.
The proprietary SSD isn't upgradeable either (yet), as it is similar but not identical to the one in the Air. It is a separate daughtercard, and we’re hopeful we can offer an upgrade in the near future.
The lithium-polymer battery is glued rather than screwed into the case, which increases the chances that it'll break during disassembly. The battery also covers the trackpad cable, which tremendously increases the chance that the user will shear the cable in the battery removal process.
The display assembly is completely fused, and there’s no glass protecting it. If anything ever fails inside the display, you will need to replace the entire extremely expensive assembly.

So...um...what happens when you eventually _do_ need a new battery? Just how much is Apple going to charge if the darn thing is GLUED to the case and requires pretty much complete disassembly of the machine?


----------



## Bowserm (Jan 11, 2012)

SINC said:


> Just got a new MBP in December with 480 GB SSD. No decision to make for another 18 months when lease ends and I buy it out for $10.


You can lease MBP's? that sounds like a pretty good deal to me. Where do I find that option at?


While I do like the sounds of the Retina MBP, I would have to agree that any upgrading is out of the question, any DIY repairing will be out of the question, and you better make sure that you have purchased the Apple Care so that when something dies, you won't have to give away your first born to have it fixed.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Bowserm said:


> You can lease MBP's? that sounds like a pretty good deal to me. Where do I find that option at?


I have been doing this for years and writing off the lease costs against my small business. What I like best is that it keeps me with relatively new technology every 24 months. My initial deal was set up for me by MacDoc.com. When I buy out the MBP for $10, I trade it back in to him for a reduction on the cost of the next MBP I lease (lease is with a separate company suggested by MacDoc) which keeps my lease costs around $130 a month once the more expensive first lease is finished. If you have an existing machine to trade in, it may be possible to reduce that initial lease cost.


----------



## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

As soon as you give the regular MBP 8GB of RAM and a 128GB SSD, it bumps the price up to $2129. Want 256GB? $2329. 

Sinc, is there an advantage to leasing over buying outright and writing the costs off over two years?


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

dona83 said:


> Sinc, is there an advantage to leasing over buying outright and writing the costs off over two years?


The advantage to me is not having to lay out the cash, then being able to write off the expense and the GST return.


----------



## rampancy_fatalin. (Dec 17, 2004)

Paddy said:


> iFixit has (already!) posted their teardown and the conclusions are interesting...


It's for these reasons that I really don't like the Retina MBPs at all. As MacDoc said earlier, it's essentially a bigger MacBook Air, and come to think of it, this probably was the fabled "15-in. MacBook Air" that's been hanging around the rumor circuit for some time now. If this really is the direction that Apple is taking with the MacBook Pro line, that's really concerning as it means that upgradability and overall reliability are what's going to suffer. 

The loss of the 17" is also unfortunate too - it seems like Apple may be positioning the Retina MBP as a replacement for the 17" MBP, but unless they provide the same expandability and upgradability as the 17" model, I'd expect that a lot of Apple's pro users aren't going to be happy.


----------



## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

It's not an air though. My Dell Vostro V13 is really portable and only 0.78" thin but because it's a slab instead of a wedge and weighs half a lb more, it just doesn't compare to a sleek and light 13" Air.

A true 15" Air would taper down to 0.11" at the front and weigh only 3.5 lb.

In terms of not being repairable, perhaps Apple is finding that a replace rather than repair policy is more cost effective. Give the customer a refurb and send the defective unit back to the factory to be dealt with.


----------



## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

i think I'm going to sell my 17" 09 mbp and pick up a pimped retina mbp with 16gb RAM. 

1920x1200 resolution on a 15" screen that weighs less than 5 lbs? thats like a sandwich made from bacon, stuffed with bacon, served with a side of bacon


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Yeah it's a bit of a fudge on resolution independence but is will be 4 x less annoying and photos will be eye popping 

still won't open properly in economy


----------



## digitddog (Jul 5, 2006)

I'm surprised that the new MBPwRD is less user/fixer friendly than ever before. The inability to upgrade memory and SSD is a real deal breaker, just on principle. I don't like this direction at all.


----------



## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

really? surprised?...i mean...everything apple makes has been going that way for years now...

a few generations from now you probably won't even have technician serviceable parts. everything will be like an iPad. sealed. it breaks, you get a new (refurbished) one under warranty or pay a reduced fee for a refurbed one when out of warranty


----------



## digitddog (Jul 5, 2006)

broad said:


> really? surprised?...i mean...everything apple makes has been going that way for years now...


But never to this extreme. Memory and HD were upgradable. Batteries have been replaceable. Even in the iPod touch, where space is at a premium, I could change the battery.


----------



## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

digitddog said:


> But never to this extreme. Memory and HD were upgradable. Batteries have been replaceable. Even in the iPod touch, where space is at a premium, I could change the battery.


memory and HD haven't been upgradeable** since 2010 in the macbook air, which was the only "new" laptop design since 09..

batteries haven't been user replaceable since 09. 

the writing has been on the wall for years now

** the SSDs can be upgraded, but its not supported and not considered to be a user upgradeable part


----------



## greensuperman32 (Mar 28, 2005)

I don't think Apple is taking away user upgradability just for the hell of it or to force you to pay them extra to upgrade the machine from the get go. I think its clearly about space, user replaceable parts require more space and since this machine is thinner and the retina display probably requires more power, Apple likely decided that the 7 hour battery rating was more important to them and to the majority of users than user upgradability.


----------



## screature (May 14, 2007)

broad said:


> really? surprised?...i mean...*everything apple makes has been going that way for years now.*..
> 
> a few generations from now you probably won't even have technician serviceable parts. everything will be like an iPad. sealed. it breaks, you get a new (refurbished) one under warranty or pay a reduced fee for a refurbed one when out of warranty


Well actually not everything Apple makes... the Mini's most recent iterations made it easier to upgrade your own RAM and certainly the Mac Pro hasn't been going that way. So really it is laptops and iMacs that have been going that way.


----------



## screature (May 14, 2007)

digitddog said:


> But never to this extreme. Memory and HD were upgradable. Batteries have been replaceable. Even in the iPod touch, where space is at a premium, *I could change the battery*.


You could change the battery?! Well if you have a couple of special tools and lots of confidence about taking it apart and putting it back together again. For most people this is something they paid to get done so I wouldn't say the iPod Touch is user replaceable... at least not unless you consider your cars brakes user replaceable...


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

CIOs Beware: New Macbook Pro Will Be a Bandwidth Hog



> CIOs with loose bring-your-own-device policies might find their corporate networks clogged should employees bring the just-announced Macbook Pro computers to work.
> 
> Introduced at Apple’s developer conference Monday, the new Macbook Pro is fitted with a Retina display, whose resolution of 2880-by-1800 pixels packed into a 15.4-inch screen is the crispest screen for a computer yet, clearer than Apple’s newest iPad.
> 
> ...


CIOS Beware: New Macbook Pro Will Be a Bandwidth Hog - The CIO Report - WSJ


----------



## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Memory, max it out to 16GB now, $200 is quite reasonable. As for storage, someone will come up with SSD cards in the near future that'll fit in if you can't get genuine Apple ones, and the SDXC format is good to 2TB, although you can currently only buy 128GB cards, 256s and 512s can't be too far off, maybe by the end of next year?


----------



## dwp (Aug 12, 2003)

screature said:


> Well actually not everything Apple makes... the Mini's most recent iterations made it easier to upgrade your own RAM and certainly the Mac Pro hasn't been going that way. So really it is laptops and iMacs that have been going that way.


You've always been able to upgrade the RAM at the very least in most if not all Apple computers (the early Mac Mini the one exception I can think of). The RMBP is a radical departure from even the MBP's of a year ago! Going from upgrade RAM, Hard Drive, Remove Super Drive to no upgrades what so ever is radical.

IMHO the Mac Pro is not part of the "New" Apple. It's part of the "old" Apple and unless someone at Apple falls in love with the Mac Pro again I think it's days are numbered.

If the MBA and the RMBP are any indication of the future of computing with Apple, somebody somewhere doesn't want you mucking around with anything!


----------



## digitddog (Jul 5, 2006)

broad said:


> memory and HD haven't been upgradeable** since 2010 in the macbook air, which was the only "new" laptop design since 09..


The Macbook Air has been the only Macbook that hasn't been fixer friendly, if I'm not mistaken. Until Monday, it was the anomaly. Now I'm concerned it's the future. And that's really my point, surprised or not. Is it radical to adhere to Maker's Owner Manifesto?  



greensuperman32 said:


> I don't think Apple is taking away user upgradability just for the hell of it or to force you to pay them extra to upgrade the machine from the get go. I think its clearly about space, user replaceable parts require more space and since this machine is thinner and the retina display probably requires more power, Apple likely decided that the 7 hour battery rating was more important to them and to the majority of users than user upgradability.


My counter argument would be that the iPod touch, with its retina display and tiny enclosure, still has SIP-type connectors that allow users to replace the digitizer, screen and battery. 



screature said:


> You could change the battery?! Well if you have a couple of special tools and lots of confidence about taking it apart and putting it back together again. For most people this is something they paid to get done so I wouldn't say the iPod Touch is user replaceable... at least not unless you consider your cars brakes user replaceable...


Okay, I'm a bit of a freak that way. I figure that if it isn't soldered down, it's replaceable. And even then, if there aren't too many pins to resolder... Mind you, I won't touch my car or plumbing.


----------



## dwp (Aug 12, 2003)

WWDC: What Apple Didn’t (Exactly) Say | Ted Landau's User Friendly View | The Mac Observer


----------



## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

screature said:


> Well actually not everything Apple makes... the Mini's most recent iterations made it easier to upgrade your own RAM and certainly the Mac Pro hasn't been going that way. So really it is laptops and iMacs that have been going that way.


they made it easier to do the RAM but a giant pain in the a$$ to do the hard drive. giveth and taketh away...seems like its a moot point to me. 

also, the mac pro hasn't changed (more or less) since 2006 so its not really relevant to this discussion. 

again I'm talking about *new* products that have been released over the past few years.


----------



## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

digitddog said:


> The Macbook Air has been the only Macbook that hasn't been fixer friendly, if I'm not mistaken. Until Monday, it was the anomaly


yes....exactly..again, the air is the only "new" design since 09...the 09 machines were all variations on the 08 15" and 13" alu MB..variations that were *less serviceable* by way of an integrated battery with ostensibly proprietary screws...

follow along

2008 unibody machines upgradeable
2009 same, made less so by way of battery
2010 macbook air (new design) sealed bottom case with pentalobe screw driver, proprietary SSD and integrated RAM
2012 retina MBP with the same hurdles as above ^ 

you ever try to take apart an iPad vs taking apart and iPad 2 or 3? or change the glass on an iPhone 3G vs that on an iPhone 4s?? 

man look at the iMac hard drive situation. in late 09 you had to use a different temp sensor if you wanted to swap out with a non apple drive, in 2010 they had proprietary firmware and then in 2011 a proprietary cable.

the whole line (as it evolves) has been going this way** 

** again exceptions to products like the mac pro which, while "new" are basically poe tay toe poe tahh toe to what they were in 2006


----------



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

rampancy_fatalin. said:


> As MacDoc said earlier, it's essentially a bigger MacBook Air...


An Air doesn't have two Thunderbolt ports, HDMI port, quad-core processors, Retina display, or dedicated graphics card. It is its own beast.


----------



## screature (May 14, 2007)

broad said:


> they made it easier to do the RAM but a giant pain in the a$$ to do the hard drive. giveth and taketh away...*seems like its a moot point to me*.
> 
> *also, the mac pro hasn't changed (more or less) since 2006* so its not really relevant to this discussion.
> 
> again I'm talking about *new* products that have been released over the past few years.


Not true... the Mac Pro has changed significantly (on the inside) since 2006 and it was last updated in 2010 so it is relevant. 

As for the Mini for the average user who is squeamish about opening their Mini having the ability to easily upgrade their RAM made a difference and for those like me who have no problem taking their computer apart to perform upgrades a few extra minutes to upgrade the hard drive is not a big deal.

As I said it is the laptops and iMac that have been most affected by Apple making them less user upgradeable.


----------



## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

screature said:


> Not true... the Mac Pro has changed significantly (on the inside) since 2006 and it was last updated in 2010 so it is relevant. .


in terms of upgradability? no, no it hasn't. 

there is a giant cover. 
it comes off the side
you see 4 drive bays and then places to put RAM
you have cardslots you can put things in

thats it...nothing has changed.

-edit: while the specs of the machine have obviously changed significantly thats not what the discussion is about. its just as easy to put a new 1TB drive in a 2012 mac pro as it is a 2006...just as easy to swap RAM and just as easy to install an (insert card here) card


----------



## screature (May 14, 2007)

broad said:


> *in terms of upgradability? no, no it hasn't. *
> 
> there is a giant cover.
> it comes off the side
> ...


Exactly my point!!! 

But again to be factual actually yes the newest models of the Mac Pro are more upgradeable than the 2006 models in that you can upgrade to *8x* as much RAM as part and parcel of the overall architecture upgrades.

And It is exactly what the discussion is about.

You said:



broad said:


> really? surprised?...*i mean...everything apple makes has been going that way for years now...*


With the Mac Pro and even the Mini the statement you made is not true especially not true of the Mac Pro... you said *everything *, I am merely pointing out that it is not true *everything* Apple makes is like that.

Hey, I am a Mac Pro devotee and sure I would have liked it to have kept up more with the times than it has but it simply is not factually accurate for you to say *everything* Apple makes *"is less user/fixer friendly than ever before"* which was digitddog's statement that you replied to...



broad said:


> really? surprised?...i mean...*everything apple makes has been going that way for years now...*


I supported your statement for the products that Apple makes that are like that I simply pointed out specifics that countered your everything statement because it was not accurate.

This many posts in and you continue to defend your *everything* statement when it clearly isn't so... Makes me wonder a little bit why you feel the need to be right when it would be just as easy to acknowledge there are exceptions and just leave it at that.


----------



## crawford (Oct 8, 2005)

MacDoc said:


> still won't open properly in economy


This is why I'll probably sit this one out. The 11" Air has been terrific for getting work done on the road. As much as I love the look and lighter weight of the new MBP, I'll be sticking with my Air. I'm sure in a few days we'll see the first sad photos of someone's brand new retina display getting crunched by a reclining airplane seat.


----------



## Visual-Q (Dec 14, 2003)

I would agree with Lars, this is nothing like an AIR, it drives two external monitors, up to 16G of RAM, usb 3, thunderbolt, and HDMI ports, and quad core i7. This is a potential workstation replacement for a lot of people, not just an upscale laptop. The Retina display is just the icing.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Complete with a carrying case for all the dongles. 

The calls today were those wanting the last of the 17s. It might turn out to be a workstation for some ....but not a lot of people at this point.

It will get there but I think not a few will sit back and lets face it the standard design are cheaper, faster and more flexible config.
I'll stand with expensive Air for the moment. 

There is this for Pro to consider as well on the retinas



> "RAM is soldered onto the logic board and cannot be upgraded, and that the proprietary solid-state drive memory was supplied by Samsung."


you get a ram or drive failure you are out of business for a couple days at least tho in theory on a drive failure you could boot Tbolt or USB in a pinch. Not sure my pros will like closed.


----------



## cap10subtext (Oct 13, 2005)

Yeah, not thrilled about the ram not being upgradable... I always liked that you could buy one with a reasonable amount of RAM and then max it out when the Ram dropped in price a couple years later. Guess Apple caught that loophole.


----------



## slipstream (May 9, 2011)

greensuperman32 said:


> Personally the fact that as a student there is really only a $300 difference between the base model normal MBP and the base model Retina MBP and I get twice the ram, twice the video memory, the crazy high resolution, the flash drive speed, and it makes my backpack lighter makes the Retina MBP a no brainer for me especially since I won't miss the optical drive or any of the ports they removed.


Good arguments, excellent points. The new model would be a delight to own and use. My concern is that it might be obsolete in 2-3 years because Apple will come out with a new OS that orphans it, and I would prefer not to have to buy a new model for 5 years at least. The battery won't last that long, and cannot be replaced without huge cost after 3 year AppleCare runs out. Am I right here?


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Also 32 gigs is not out of technical specs tho the chips are not out yet. Still they will have a market for both.


----------



## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Apple is unlikely to replace a battery for free after you've been using it for 6 months or a year, if it's gone through a lot of cycles.

That said, the replacement cost of current non-user serviceable batteries isn't "huge."

As for being "orphaned," many if not the majority of users here use systems that won't run Mountain Lion, and will survive.




slipstream said:


> Good arguments, excellent points. The new model would be a delight to own and use. My concern is that it might be obsolete in 2-3 years because Apple will come out with a new OS that orphans it, and I would prefer not to have to buy a new model for 5 years at least. The battery won't last that long, and cannot be replaced without huge cost after 3 year AppleCare runs out. Am I right here?


----------



## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

On the top of the line MBP with Retina the options for processor are 2.6 or 2.7

Is there really any difference between the 2 for $270?


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

Joker Eh said:


> On the top of the line MBP with Retina the options for processor are 2.6 or 2.7
> 
> Is there really any difference between the 2 for $270?


I was thinking the same thing. Would anyone notice that slight performance boost of?

I am going to be ordering a RMBP next week and will be going with the 512 gig model and 16 gigs of ram which seems like a worthwhile upgrade as you cant change after. The slight processor bump cant be worth that money and I wonder why make 2 processors so close in speed? Or is there something more to them?


----------



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

wonderings said:


> I was thinking the same thing. Would anyone notice that slight performance boost of?
> 
> I am going to be ordering a RMBP next week and will be going with the 512 gig model and 16 gigs of ram which seems like a worthwhile upgrade as you cant change after. The slight processor bump cant be worth that money and I wonder why make 2 processors so close in speed? Or is there something more to them?


_You can upgrade the processor in your MacBook Pro to the 2.7GHz quad-core Intel Core i7 processor, featuring *8MB L3 cache* and Turbo Boost speeds up to 3.7GHz._

Versus 4MB or 6MB I believe on the 2.6 CPU.


----------



## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

Lars said:


> _You can upgrade the processor in your MacBook Pro to the 2.7GHz quad-core Intel Core i7 processor, featuring *8MB L3 cache* and Turbo Boost speeds up to 3.7GHz._
> 
> Versus 4MB or 6MB I believe on the 2.6 CPU.


But does that make a big difference?


----------



## digitddog (Jul 5, 2006)

There's an interesting post over at TUAW that explains, to some extent, why an iPad gets much better battery life compared to the new RMBP, despite the fact that they both are all solid state and both have retinal displays. 

(The article is ostensibly about why you won't get a retinal display on an MBAir anytime soon, but the explanation largely uses the iPad as a counterpoint.)


----------



## greensuperman32 (Mar 28, 2005)

What impresses me most with the RMBP is that they were able to get the same kind of batter life with it. I have to think this would be much more challenging to do on an air at the moment since it would require a bigger battery in order to get the same kind of battery life the air enjoys currently. Making space in the macbook pro would have been relatively easy once you ditched the optical drive and packed all the other components more tightly together, but in the air it would be pretty impossible by comparison since everything is already packed pretty tight.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

If you look at the teardown photos of the RMPB, you'll that's just what they did, cram a bunch of extra propriety batteries in there that now occupies over 50% of the space, and all mounted using the horrible "G" word - Glue, and virtually impossible to remove without doing other damage.


----------



## greensuperman32 (Mar 28, 2005)

pm-r said:


> If you look at the teardown photos of the RMPB, you'll that's just what they did, cram a bunch of extra propriety batteries in there that now occupies over 50% of the space, and all mounted using the horrible "G" word - Glue, and virtually impossible to remove without doing other damage.


Exactly. That's easy to do in the RMBP even though its thinner than the old model. Not so simple to do in the air though.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

I'm sure they *could* with all the new thin and custom batteries size/shape technology out there these days, but I *doubt* that they *would*, and I'd be very surprised now with the latest Retina models now released if Apple would ever add a Retina display to a MB Air, unless it was offered as special build you own type option. Very doubtful I would think.


----------



## The G3 Man (Oct 7, 2008)

I'm going to take this opportunity to upgrade to a used 2008 MBP, so I can at least run Mountain Lion.

I rarely push the limits of my 2008 MacBook, as most of what I do doesn't rely on having a fast CPU. As the C2D's are pretty damn fast already.

-MMF


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable | Gadget Lab | Wired.com


----------



## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

With the MacBook Air becoming 40% + of the laptop line, it's clear that customers want computers that are thin, solid, and work like crazy.

If I need to upgrade from 16GB RAM that's been soldered in, what will I upgrade to and when?

Sure 256GB isn't enough for a hard drive, but I'll learn how to have a music/apps library in an external (point it there...).


----------



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

HowEver said:


> If I need to upgrade from 16GB RAM that's been soldered in, what will I upgrade to and when?


You sell it and buy the next model with more RAM.


----------



## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Lars said:


> You sell it and buy the next model with more RAM.


Exactly. When is 16GB RAM not going to be enough...


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

HowEver said:


> Exactly. When is 16GB RAM not going to be enough...


Well for now and most people it should be enough, down the road, not so. But will the current machines or even last gen be able to handle larger anyways? 

I broke down and ordered a RMBP, the 2.6 model and upgraded to 16 gigs of ram to future proof it a bit. As much as I liked being able to upgrade the ram and hard drive myself, I think the RMBP will hold out longer, the ram is twice what I am running now, and I am moving all work data off my hard drive to a NAS system I will be putting in place this summer, so hard drive space is not really an issue either.


----------



## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

HowEver said:


> Exactly. When is 16GB RAM not going to be enough...


my 2007 macbook pro w/10.4 had a min ram requirement of 256MB and had 2GB installed. at the time i was like..."whoa" 

now 2GB isn't even useable.


----------



## equisol (Jan 12, 2008)

HowEver said:


> Exactly. When is 16GB RAM not going to be enough...


This is a deja vu, someone once said that 512 is more than anyone would ever be able to use, and that was less than 20 years ago. 16GB will be nothing in 10 years.


----------



## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

equisol said:


> This is a deja vu, someone once said that 512 is more than anyone would ever be able to use, and that was less than 20 years ago. 16GB will be nothing in 10 years.


If I still have a 16GB RAM Retina MacBook Pro in 10 years and it's not enough, fine.

If I still have it next year and it's not enough, I'll upgrade to whatever there is that is enough.

Having just sold a working, mint Pismo that I had upgraded to 1GB of RAM, which is now apparently being used as a server, I have no issue with Apple's current configurations.


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

I dont think HowEver was talking "enough" as final. Its enough for the next few years. By the time you need more ram to handle the apps that are out there, you will need a new machine.


----------



## greensuperman32 (Mar 28, 2005)

pm-r said:


> I'm sure they *could* with all the new thin and custom batteries size/shape technology out there these days, but I *doubt* that they *would*, and I'd be very surprised now with the latest Retina models now released if Apple would ever add a Retina display to a MB Air, unless it was offered as special build you own type option. Very doubtful I would think.


I'm sure the technology exists for sure, but it probably costs more than apple would like.


----------



## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

My iMac has 2GB of RAM, I thought about upgrading it but it's never felt slow. Of course it's at the end of the line with operating system upgrades...


----------



## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

looks like the battery and top case are sold as an integrated unit...better invest in a keyboard cover..looks like a liquid spill is going to cost you an arm and leg hahaha


----------



## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

I finally had time to go to an Apple store. My thoughts:


The display, it's beautiful. Photos just pop.
Viewing angles are very good, but somehow I can't call it excellent. I think it's a hair under what the iPhone and iPad delivers, is it because the glass is thicker or something is lost through the reduced glare glass technology? 
The speakers, this is a slim laptop, it's not supposed to be this good! Listening to Audrey Assad's album which can be found on pretty much every display Mac at any Apple Store sounded stunning, absolutely stunning.
It's thin, but it's still a big slab. I wouldn't be on the market for anything like this, I still prefer the 11" MacBook Air, but I would highly recommend one if someone was looking for a 15" notebook and had a bit of money to spend.


----------



## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

I went to the Apple Store today too, and had a look at the Retina display model and while it's a beautiful display, just like the iPad, it's still glossy and the glare was no better (IMHO) than the regular glossy MBPs. The Hi-Res Anti-Glare got my vote - it's not quite got the wow factor that the Retina has, but I'll be much happier with the expandability and the fact that I *didn't* have to spend an additional $500 to get 750 GB of storage! If I'd bought the RMBP with 2.6GHz processor, 16GB of RAM and the 512GB drive (which wouldn't really have been adequate) I'd have been looking at $2809 PLUS $259 for AppleCare, PLUS tax, for a total of $3,466. And that's WITH the ed discount. With the 756GB flash drive, I'd have been looking at almost $4K with taxes. 

The hi-res matte display, with the 750GB 7200 RPM drive, 8GB of RAM is $2164 (ed discount), and with AppleCare and taxes is $2,725. Not cheap either, but strangely enough, the price of the new MBP is exactly what we spent 7 years ago on a 1.5GHz G4 Powerbook (with an 80GB HD and 512MB of RAM) for my husband (a machine that's still in daily use, BTW) It's also less than the $2500+ I spent on my current 2.33GHz MBP. And I've still got ethernet (no dongles required) and an optical drive. 

The back to school pricing also comes with $100 to spend in the App store.  And I'll get Mountain Lion for free too - though that's not exactly a motivating factor, considering its price tag.


----------



## greensuperman32 (Mar 28, 2005)

So I was thinking and if you have the need to run windows in bootcamp for whatever reason then the RMBP might not be a great idea as Windows will not be optimized for the screen so you'd have to run it at a lower than native resolution to make it usable at all. I would guess that doing that wouldn't look very good.


----------



## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

Actually, I've seen some posts on forums from those who've tried Windows 7 on the RMBP and been pleasantly surprised.

Lots of screen shots to accompany this article:

Windows 7 Tested on Retina Display MacBook Pro: How Good Is It?


----------



## normcorriveau (Dec 6, 2005)

Got my Retina yesterday. I have to say that text looks amazing on the screen. It really is a significant leap forward in screen design. I'm sure within two years all Apple products will be retina as well as most high-end PCs.

I was also pleasantly surprised that dev-channel Chrome was already updated to support it so I didn't need to switch to Safari (I crossed that particular bridge some time ago).

This also delayed my planned move from Aperture to Lightroom. Hopefully both Lightroom and Photoshop will be updated soon.

Norm


----------



## Fox (Oct 4, 2002)

For me, it is the new MBA 13" that looks attractive. I'm used to the 13" size from my 2007 MBP, but the idea of shaving off 1.5 lb from the weight and adding some battery life and speed is very attractive. It is the upgradeability that has kept me from buying an MBA so far. The other route would be to add an SSD to my MBP, but that won't lighten it or give me more battery life, or so I've heard. Then there is the question of what size SSD to get if I got an MBA. The $300 extra for a 256 gb seems excessive, given that one can buy a 240 gb SSD for under $200.


----------



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

Fox said:


> Then there is the question of what size SSD to get if I got an MBA. The $300 extra for a 256 gb seems excessive, given that one can buy a 240 gb SSD for under $200.


FWIW - the SSD in the Air does not use a conventional 2.5" drive, meaning you could not upgrade it yourself for under $200 post-purchase. OWC sells replacement drives for the Air line, but they're nowhere near just two hundred bucks.


----------



## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

People keep on complaining about the SSD prices. Sure you can get cheap SSDs but most premium SSDs like the Intel 520, OCZ Vertex 4, etc. are say in the $750-$850 range in 480GB. 240GB is about $350, 120GB about $175-$200. The jump from 128 to 256 is a bit high with Apple for the Air, but $500 for 256 to 512 is totally not unreasonable.


----------



## The Mailman (Jun 21, 2012)

Ordered the MBP-R, it'll be my first Mac.


----------



## The Mailman (Jun 21, 2012)

greensuperman32 said:


> So I was thinking and if you have the need to run windows in bootcamp for whatever reason then the RMBP might not be a great idea as Windows will not be optimized for the screen so you'd have to run it at a lower than native resolution to make it usable at all. I would guess that doing that wouldn't look very good.





Paddy said:


> Actually, I've seen some posts on forums from those who've tried Windows 7 on the RMBP and been pleasantly surprised.
> 
> Lots of screen shots to accompany this article:
> 
> Windows 7 Tested on Retina Display MacBook Pro: How Good Is It?


Yeah, I bet it looks crystal clear. I run Windows on my LED Cinema at work and - while 27" is a lot less pixel density than 15" - I'm sure its still usable after some DPI tweaking to get the fonts at a comfortable level


----------

