# MS Access or FileMaker Pro?



## mcdermij (Oct 13, 2006)

I'm starting a customer and parts database for a manufacturing company. I've been looking online as to what is better, MS Access or Filemaker. I've read they are compatible with one another, but how difficult is it should I want to convert files from one program to the next?

It seems access is the easier choice because it does have larger market share, but I'd like to use my mac rather than my PC, for obvious reasons. But I also read that it is much easier to publish Filemaker to the web, which is a huge plus.

Anyone have experience/opinions?


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

Filemaker is very ease to use compared to Microsoft Access. Filemaker is cross-platform, while Access is PC only.

If I had a choice of things, I'd go with Filemaker. Access, while very powerful, is not nearly as user friendly as Filemaker.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Filemaker far and away. It's certainly the industry leader on both platforms when it comes to easy to use databases.


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## mcdermij (Oct 13, 2006)

Great thanks for the replies. How is the learning curve on FileMaker? I have some Access experience but that was a few years ago. Is anyone familiar with a database program called Vision? I will need to convert a Vision database to Access or Filemaker.


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## minnes (Aug 15, 2001)

Filemaker comes with help and tutorials and an intro 
Im sure you can import tables and data from access
here's a suggestion, to cross port from Access to Filemaker
In Access, export your tables and data as SQL files, and that can be imported into Filemaker pretty easy.
I doubt you can move forms and reports over across the two.
But you should be able to recreate the forms and report page and web stuff in Filemaker in a straightforward fashion. and both PC and mac users can run FM.
Lots of ehMacers use Filemaker so their might be some existing projects you can play with to adapt to your purpose.


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

mcdermij said:


> I'm starting a customer and parts database for a manufacturing company. I've been looking online as to what is better, MS Access or Filemaker. I've read they are compatible with one another, but how difficult is it should I want to convert files from one program to the next?
> 
> It seems access is the easier choice because it does have larger market share, but I'd like to use my mac rather than my PC, for obvious reasons. But I also read that it is much easier to publish Filemaker to the web, which is a huge plus.
> 
> Anyone have experience/opinions?


Oh dear.
MS Access and Filemaker are about as compatible with each other as Ford and Chevy. You can get in and out, and you put in the same gas, but other than that all of the parts are different. You're kinda implying: Ford and Chevy are compatible cars, so I should be able to swap engines and transmissions between them.

Compatibility doesn't mean simple conversion of data. 

Data is exportable from one program to the other, by way of text files, or with some work, through ODBC and/or SQL*. However it is NOT the sort of thing you want to do all the time. The programming, business logic, database structure, layouts, UI, certain graphic file formats, and everything else are NOT transportable between programs - they are utterly foreign to each other. 

(*if your organization is large enough to maintain its own web and database servers and data warehouse, and have multiple users querying the same data from different applications through SQL, this will be an entirely different conversation)

To an extent, Filemaker IS easier to publish to the Web... if you are running your own servers. Otherwise it is more costly to outsource Filemaker web serving. Filemaker is also easier to program... up to a point. Beyond that point it becomes more difficult to get it to do exactly what you need. This 'point' may be farther out on the horizon than you will ever need to do, in which case it's a decent, fast to develop, cross-platform small to midsize business system. 

Here's what I think you should do. You should engage a database professional to analyze your requirements, rough out a structure for the data, and be able to make some informed recommendations, based on your requirements, of what product can handle the job. This will cost you some coin up front. But it will save thousands, tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands in lost time and money if you forge ahead down a dead-end path.


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

CanadaRAM said:


> Oh dear.
> Here's what I think you should do. You should engage a database professional to analyze your requirements, rough out a structure for the data, and be able to make some informed recommendations, based on your requirements, of what product can handle the job. This will cost you some coin up front. But it will save thousands, tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands in lost time and money if you forge ahead down a dead-end path.


I agree. The best advice is to examine how important the application will be to the business, and invest in it accordingly. I continue to shake my head at organizations that will invest hundreds or thousands of dollars on something that will gain them little if any improvement in productivity, and ignore areas where an investment would pay off big time. 

Return on investment.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

guytoronto said:


> Filemaker is very ease to use compared to Microsoft Access. Filemaker is cross-platform, while Access is PC only.
> 
> If I had a choice of things, I'd go with Filemaker. Access, while very powerful, is not nearly as user friendly as Filemaker.


ditto

the cross platform ability could save u big dollars should your company decide to switch platforms in the future

allowing for options in the future is a great way to show "deciders" their investment is safe for the long term


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2007)

I'll add a third opinion of talk to a database person before you commit. Clearly lay out your immediate needs, as well as your needs for the next little bit (say a couple of years). Make sure to include things like:

- types of access (local, web, shared on network, how many machines).
- types of reporting required
- portability requirements
- interoperability with other systems

Also if you're referring to Business Vision (or anything in that series of products) you'll probably find that they don't want you to get data out of their setup as they sell competing products and do mostly whatever they can to lock down their data. There is no simple "convert", there are a lot of jumping through hoops and reformatting your data.

Now is a good time to consider this stuff, before you commit to anything. That said if web access is a large requirement I don't think Filemaker or Access are good choices. You might also look into php/mysql based setups, there may be an open source/free solution already out there that will do what you need it to do.

Last, but not least, (and people are going to slay me for this one) ... if things are relatively simple requirement wise try staying with Xcel spreadsheets until you really need to move on to something else. Once you commit to one of the 2 choices above you are stuck in that vein unless you go back to scratch and start again, and both avenues cost you $$ at each step of the way, so the longer you're in one the more it costs. Make sure it's the right one the first time


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## mcdermij (Oct 13, 2006)

Hmm, yes I had an IT specialist come in from a company that shall remain nameless. I wanted him to come in and assess my situation, and basically set it all up for me, but he turned out to be useless and was basically just trying to sell me Microsoft products. 

Perhaps I will try another IT solutions company.

Yes I figured they were not easily compatible, thanks for putting the official stamp on it. Very good to know.

So it looks like Filemaker is the best choice. This is just for a small tool manufacturing company. I'm basically looking to get this online so that my salesmen and frequent customers can track the progress being made on their orders, and get info such as estimated time of completion etc. Rather than having to call or email to get such info. 

We need to copy the database of our distrobution company, but they are using a special DB called Vision I believe. And it's much more than we need. 

As a larger question do you believe FileMaker is an appropriate program to do what I have stated above? Or am i going about this all wrong?

Thanks for the replies this is very informative.


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2007)

Filemaker wouldn't be my choice for web publishing, but being a php/mysql fan I might be biased. I've never had good experiences with filemaker and web stuff, and it usually turns out to cost a lot more than you anticipate.

I'd still nudge you in the way of a php/mysql based web solution if your primary means of publishing will be the web. Also don't forget to take hosting into account (if you're not hosting in house). Hosting filemaker apps is typically a LOT more $$ than a cheap php/mysql capable web server account.


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## minnes (Aug 15, 2001)

indeed their may be an existing app using PHP/mysql or Posgresql
check places like sourceforge.net

I am pretty suree, I could make you a PHP app that would do what you want on the web, but with similer things floating around, you may be able to find someone to tweak an existing app.

If you are interested in getting more opinions from me, I do have quite a bit of experience with PHP and SQl database programming, and while I can export data to any app from Access, I dont know much about Vision, but there might be a way to move the data and table arrangements over.
email me at [email protected] if you want to discuss an affordable custom web based database apps.
Mark Innes


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## mcdermij (Oct 13, 2006)

Yes I hope I am able to move the info from Vision to Access or Filemaker. So if I was to go with a PHP/myslq type DB I'd have to use Access? Or would i still be able to use filemaker? I'm sorry you'll have to forgive my ignorance, i am quite computer savvy but I have had little database experience since a first year university computer course, of which I retained very little.

I was planning on using bell to host my site, since I have a small business account with them already.

So just to completely dumb it down, I'd be able to create a DB in access or filemaker, then use a PHP/myslq app to publish that to the web with the host I have. Further when I update my db can I arrange it to auto update on the website?

Ideally I'd like to have it set up where my employees can access the database and update their progress on a particular job at the end of each day.

Again, sorry about my lack of knowledge here.

Thanks very much for the offer of assistance minnes. I will be in touch with you once I've further researched my options and once i know more about Vision and what I'm up against here.


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## minnes (Aug 15, 2001)

HI mcdermij 

basicly you can make complete apps with either Access OR Filemaker, both might do what you want, but only Filemaker is cross platform. and Filemaker is likely the easier to learn if you do it yourself.
I am not familier with VIsion, one thing you should find out is if you can export your data as SQL files, if that is so then you can take it anywhere.

If you find that Filemaker does not offer the web support you need then a web based database application can be set up using html on web pages as forms for input, editing and viewqing data, the data would be stored byb your web host in a MySql database that you likely have avaailable at no extra charge from your isp.
PHP is the scripting language that goes between the Web pages the user sees and the database of the web server.

So once you get your data as sql, your plans for input, output and edting, who uses the data etc then you can decide what you want and what software would suit you. So if you went the custom PHP/MySQl route, you would not use Filemaker or Access.
I hope this answers some of your questions-
Mark



mcdermij said:


> Yes I hope I am able to move the info from Vision to Access or Filemaker. So if I was to go with a PHP/myslq type DB I'd have to use Access? Or would i still be able to use filemaker? I'm sorry you'll have to forgive my ignorance, i am quite computer savvy but I have had little database experience since a first year university computer course, of which I retained very little.
> 
> I was planning on using bell to host my site, since I have a small business account with them already.
> 
> ...


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2007)

It's also mportant to know that you can't put a filemaker database on just any web server (you need a special Filemaker server or a machine running filemaker+ your custom application + has web access enabled on a public address). You cannot do this sort of thing at all with an access database at all.

Again I'll mention that Vision doesn't allow exports much beyond a simple "report" .. so you may be able to get a simple spreadsheet with the information you need.

I'd honestly suggest getting someone to help you out here that is a database specialist, not just an IT person. Send me a PM if you want and I might be able to point you in the right direction here.


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

You pushed a BIG button with a couple of simple words > ...frequent customers can track the progress being made on their orders. <

That's *huge.* You want to allow public access into your customer's private data and private inventory/order data.

You are going to have to plan for security bigtime here. How does a customer log into their account and not see any other customer's information? How can a customer be assured that nobody else can hack in or see their info? How are you going to insure that you give sales people access to order info, without allowing them to inadvertently alter data in an uncontrolled way? 

(I went to a lease financing company's website once, and with no hacking at all I saw in plain text 2,000 lease applications, with all the peoples' credit history, income, what they were buying, whether they had ever been bankrupt, etc. All because the lease company had missed one line of code.)

You have privacy regulations to comply with. If the company has a branch in the USA, you have even tighter reporting and controls you have to have in place. If it is a incorporated business in the USA, Google "Sarbanes-Oxley" and weep.

I don't know what Bell offers, but I would bet they don't have Filemaker or Access hosting. Your ISP must support the type of database you want to host, on the webserver. 

I'll repeat myself: You need a pro. Don't pass Go, don't spend $400 on a end-user database and try to roll your own. The possibility of massive screwups is pretty big here...


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2007)

CanadaRAM said:


> You pushed a BIG button with a couple of simple words > ...frequent customers can track the progress being made on their orders. <
> 
> That's *huge.* You want to allow public access into your customer's private data and private inventory/order data.
> ...<snip>...
> You have privacy regulations to comply with. If the company has a branch in the USA, you have even tighter reporting and controls you have to have in place. If it is a incorporated business in the USA, Google "Sarbanes-Oxley" and weep.


Yes exactly. For the SOX stuff I think this only applies to publicly traded US companies (but you will want to double check this if you have a US branch!). I've done a lot of SOX compliancy stuff, and man it's not fun 



CanadaRAM said:


> I'll repeat myself: You need a pro. Don't pass Go, don't spend $400 on a end-user database and try to roll your own. The possibility of massive screwups is pretty big here...


Yep exactly. Many things to take into account here. Not only your customer's data but your data as well if you plan on having any info in it that's not specifically for the client's eyes


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## Lichen Software (Jul 23, 2004)

I am coming late to this thread.

First off I am primarilly Mac based and I do FileMaker for a living. That pretty much states preferences and knowledge base up front. If there is errata in some of the items I go through, please some one step in and "slap me".

1. Access and FileMaker are not similar. The earlier comparison was Ford to Chevy. It is further away than that. Probably closer to Purolator versus CN rail. They both carry stuff and after that the similarity pretty much ends.

Here are some of the differences. They are not good versus bad .... Just different.

Access has separation of data versus calculations and displays. FileMaker is integrated in that regard. You can make separation happen in FileMaker but it is a concious decision at the design stage.

Access fully supports the Microsoft suite of programs including Visual Basic. FileMaker has a proprietary scripting language. The native ODBC drivers are one way only. Get data out of an SQL source, not put data in. I believe that there are third party plug ins that will support SQL 2 way communication.

My understanding from reading I have done is that build time in FileMaker is about half that of Access. I cannot confirm it.

Networking is different between them. 

In Access after you have several clients, the upgrade path is to do a further separation of data and display by putting the data on SQL Server and the user interface on Access. Access becomes the front end and SQL Server becomes the back end. This calls for a redesign. My understanding is that there are built in routines to do this. I have no idea how efficient they are.

I am not sure if Access uses its' own networking tunnel or relies on OS File Sharing. Some one could chime in here.

FileMaker, current versions will network on a peer to peer basis up to 5 clients.  After this one must go to FileMaker Server. This ups the count to 250 clients and up to 50 files. The files are hosted on the server and the clients access them from a desk top version of Filemaker Pro on their machine.

If one wants to do other than FileMaker to FileMaker "talk talk", eg: web enablement or ODBC connection, you will also need FileMaker Server Advanced. That is what it is for.

FileMaker makes it's own network tunnel. It does not use OS file sharing. In fact, attempting to use OS file sharing as in say an alias on the user's desktop directly to an OS shared file, will eventually lead to data corruption or program corruption or both. What this does mean is that a Filemaker server will run and is designed to run with OS file sharing turned off. There is security in that.

Current versions of FileMaker are much better at networking than prior versions. I have several programs now running over a WAN so clients in one instance in L.A. and Minneapolis are entering data into the server just outside of Philadelphia. But also be aware that these people have a good IT staff in place and have hired a "Big Pipe" to carry this data. It is not a trivial installation.

Searches are fundamentally different. 

Access supports SQL (Structured Query Language) natively. I believe this puts it directly in line with SQL Server, Oracle, MySQL, PostgreSQL with regards to search compatibility and connectivity. I would probably also mean that Access could be used as a front end for any of these back end databases. 

FileMaker searches are proprietary and are a different paradigm entirely, more resembling the Search Forms that you see on web pages. This having been said, very strong robust Filemaker searches can be constructed or scripted. Also, there are third party connectivity options via plug ins available. Sorry cannot be more specific on this.

I do not know the data limits to an Access file. However, if there is that much data you would probably go to an SQL variant anyway. 

Current versions of FileMaker are up to 8 Terrabytes (hope I have that term correct) per file. This is huge and a far cry from previous versions. I have one program runnning a million records now and with the design it appears to run well.

I am not that well versed in web/database interfaces. My understanding is that a SQL based database will talk to the web versus an intermediary such as PHP and talk in real time.

In FileMaker there are several strategies depending on what you want.

- You can have the database output static web pages that are then uploaded to the site. This is quite secure in that the public never has access to the database.

- You can use Instant Web Publishing in conjunction with FileMaker Pro server and FileMaker Pro Server Advanced to serve the database on the web to up to 100 concurrent users. This is in addition to the 250 networked FileMaker to FileMaker users. This is nice if the needs are limited. It does take some thought in the design in that people are going directly into your database here. You want to be very careful.

- You can use an intermediary such as PHP to do custom web publishing. There are people who do this and they can serve a large number of people. I personally do not know the particulars.

You can also go other routes entirely for this. Exmple: FileMaker supports plug ins such that one could have the program auto email the client at each stage of the manufacture and fulfillment. In Access there may be similar ways.


2. You indicate that you are currently running the busines on "Vision". I am assuming that this is the accounting package Business Vision.

Several things here.

I do not know if you really want to start rolling your own accounting package. These companies keep a cadre of people just to keep up with current legislation. Many people use other applicaitons such as FileMaker or Access to generate day to day data but then feed the data back into the accounting package.

Getting data out of this package may not be trivial. Both accounting packages and contact relationship managers seem to make life difficult in this regard. The difficulties seem to come in two flavours: 

- Total non exportability eg: Notes in ACT
- Custom data delimitation

The only way I know of to get notes out of ACT is to print them all out through a print to text driver and then parse the result into a standard delimited format.

With custom data delimitation you can be in the same boat. 

One standard delimitation is Tab Separated Text. Each field is separated by a Tab. Each full record is separated by a Hard Carriage Return.

You could potentially have custom delimitation where each field is separated by say "|" (Pipe) and the end of record is signified as say a double Carriage Return.

Bringing the data through would consist of exporting the data; examining the data structure to determine the delimiters; grepping the delimiters to a standard format; importing the altered data into the new database. The hidden assumption is that the new database was previously designed with a one to one correspondance to the fields in Business Vision.

3. Other things

From other posts, you can see that there are several ways to skin the cat here. From the functions you describe, you are probably not into a "Roll Your Own Solution". There are some heavy downside risks.

There are issues not only of the program you want to use, but of the functions you want to serve. Serving five employees in the office on a LAN is a totally different thing from serving 200 employees in remote locations on a WAN or over the net, and is again different from, serving your customers on line. Each one of these will require an escalation in the quality and amounts of equipment, services and software required. You can help yourself here by making a really really detailed wish list. Then who ever you talk to can also give you an indication of the hardware/software/infrastructure/outside service escalation involved in implementing any particular part of the wish list.

I don't know if you will find a consultant who can give FileMaker versus Access advice. Generally, consultants are geared to job requirements versus their particular tools of the trade. 

If you do have an honest consultant what he should be able to answer right up front is "you can't get there from here" or "this is trivial using this" or"this project is really five projects rolled into one and I can do parts 1 to 3 but #4 and #5 are beyond me". Your detailed wish list will be a great help to him/her in this.

The other thing you can do is collect a copy of evey report in whatever form that your company does. Not only does someone have to deal with the data, they have to display it in a manner that you can use it. The impossibility of producing one key report may in and of itelf be a decision maker in how you will proceed.

Hopefully this helps you and hopefully I do not have much in the way of factual errors here.

Regards

Dave McQueen


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## mcdermij (Oct 13, 2006)

Thanks for the input Dave. 

Yes so having customer access to the online DB seems a little too ambitious and not cost effective. So given that, I will only need to give online access to about 5 salesmen, and my LAN would have 4 computers.

We have decided to go with professionals as we now realize we are totally out of our element. We have decided to give our first consultant another shot since we have done business with them in the past. However, I would like to get some insight from you guys on what they propose. 

So if anyone is at all interested you can email me: [email protected]

I have recieved emails from a couple people, which is great. This is an important step for my business so I want to make sure I am making a well informed decision. 

thanks.


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