# Will Canada get a better iphone 4?



## daniels (Jul 27, 2009)

1. Glass Panel Screen is Breakable

On the website, Apple claims the glass panels are Chemically strengthened to be 20 times stiffer and 30 times harder than plastic, the glass is ultradurable and more scratch resistant than ever; however, iFixyouri conducted a drop test and the glass panel shattered after three flat drops. 

2. Decrease Signal Strength if Held With Left-Hand
The stainless steel band functions as an antenna, but if held in the left-hand, the user will lose reception. Anandtech completed an experiment by replacing signal bars with a numeric signal strength indicator and found that when the iPhone4 is grasped tightly, it significantly loses signal strength more so than the iPhone 3GS and HTC Nexus One. Steve Jobs, addressed this issue by saying “There is no reception issue. Stay Tuned”.

Protecting your new iPhone 4 with a case can minimize these issues, but will Apple officially address these issues or fix them before Canadians receive their iPhone 4s? And do these issues make you think twice before making a purchase?

Will Canada get a better built iPhone 4? | Tech Blog | Blogs | Toronto Sun


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## MacUnited (Nov 1, 2009)

well to be quite honest with you, I was counting the days for the release date, HOWEVER, with the annoying silence about the release date, the continuous issues that keeps popping up with the iphone 4, and most importantly, the arrogant way-in my humble opinion- that apple addressed all these issues, Blackberry Storm 2 keeps getting more and more attractive. 
I'm still waiting for the iphone though, but at one point in the next couple of months if things are not cleared, I'm done.


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## Mckitrick (Dec 25, 2005)

Storm2?! You must be joking....


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## MacUnited (Nov 1, 2009)

why not? I like the clickable screen... and it doesn't drop signals however you hold it hehehehe


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## kkritsilas (Mar 1, 2010)

Yeah, but on the other hand, the UI and everything else on the Storm 2 sucks, badly.

We will probably get the iP4 with the updated firmware, depending on when exactly it is released, and when the firmware fix is released. Some of the other problems being reported (yellow blotches on screen, or poor color from the still camera) have been investigated, and some seem to resolve themselves (yellow blotches on screen are caused by glue still not completely dry) or will be fixed by other software patches (camera color rendition), sometime after the signal strength calculation patch is released. I would think that the signal strength firmware patch has the highest priority right now.

Kostas


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## daniels (Jul 27, 2009)

I'd go with something else but no one else has the best app store, plus i've spend up to $300 on the apps i've got so its not worth it.


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## bsenka (Jan 27, 2009)

If I was forced to guess what Apple is going to do in the short term, I'd be inclined to go with them including a rubber bumper with each iPhone4. They've already started doing this for some corporate customers in the US.


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## MacUnited (Nov 1, 2009)

I'm probably as ignorant as could be when it comes to antenna engineering, but 
1- why didn't apple use any isolation on the antenna like anybody would've expected.
2- what's stopping them now from doing this now?
I suppose some folk, including me, would want to enjoy the phone without those"ugly" bumpers! the phone is way more elegant..


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## imobile (Oct 6, 2007)

*Jeez... do not believe all you read...*



MacUnited said:


> well to be quite honest with you, I was counting the days for the release date, HOWEVER, with the annoying silence about the release date, the continuous issues that keeps popping up with the iphone 4, and most importantly, the arrogant way-in my humble opinion- that apple addressed all these issues, Blackberry Storm 2 keeps getting more and more attractive.
> I'm still waiting for the iphone though, but at one point in the next couple of months if things are not cleared, I'm done.


If I had believed all I read, I would NOT have bought a Mac clone way back in 1996!

Or Apple shares in 2002!


AppleInsider | Consumer Reports: signal issues not unique iPhone 4, no reason not to buy (u)


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

Well, it does bring to mind a rather salient fact: you can now purchase the iPhone 3GS for half the price that you could just a couple months ago. Fine phone, even without the retina display, dual cameras, and what not. Works great with iOS 4 too.


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## imobile (Oct 6, 2007)

*Yup!*



fjnmusic said:


> Well, it does bring to mind a rather salient fact: you can now purchase the iPhone 3GS for half the price that you could just a couple months ago. Fine phone, even without the retina display, dual cameras, and what not. Works great with iOS 4 too.


A very astute observation mate!

But it is the data/plans that are the REAL cost! The capital outlay for phone itself is but 15% of the COMMITMENT or less!


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

True true. Still, a hundred bucks is a hundred bucks.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Gad I wish people would just shut up about the fake antenna problem already.

Antenna Expert: Apple is Right, iPhone 4 Signal Woes Overblown - PCWorld

When frickin' PC WORLD says this whole thing is a huge non-issue, when CONSUMER REPORTS says the bottom line is that the unwashed masses don't understand physics but do understand mass hysteria, and when APPLE says the real problem is AT&T sucks in a lot of places, I think the "issue" is as dead and buried as the "question" of OJ Simpson's guilt.


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## sheamus (May 20, 2010)

Look at the 9800, not the storm 2, if you are going to go that route.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

chas_m said:


> Gad I wish people would just shut up about the fake antenna problem already.
> 
> Antenna Expert: Apple is Right, iPhone 4 Signal Woes Overblown - PCWorld
> 
> When frickin' PC WORLD says this whole thing is a huge non-issue, when CONSUMER REPORTS says the bottom line is that the unwashed masses don't understand physics but do understand mass hysteria, and when APPLE says the real problem is AT&T sucks in a lot of places, I think the "issue" is as dead and buried as the "question" of OJ Simpson's guilt.


Wait a minute...wasn't Orenthal James not guilty? Liable, yes; guilty, no.


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## sheamus (May 20, 2010)

That guy on PC World is the same guy they interviewed on TWiT (twit.tv). I notice in the comments of the pc world article that he gets slammed for not mentioning AnandTech's results. On the twit podcast he actually does talk about the AnandTech results. Atleast on TWIT, ee also does not come across as an Apple shill, though he does admit that he has ordered an iphone 4.


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## keebler27 (Jan 5, 2007)

MacUnited said:


> well to be quite honest with you, I was counting the days for the release date, HOWEVER, with the annoying silence about the release date, the continuous issues that keeps popping up with the iphone 4, and most importantly, the arrogant way-in my humble opinion- that apple addressed all these issues, Blackberry Storm 2 keeps getting more and more attractive.
> I'm still waiting for the iphone though, but at one point in the next couple of months if things are not cleared, I'm done.


Well i agree - tired of waiting and with the issues, I've decided to not upgrade am ordered the AppleCare for my 3GS as the warranty is just about up. 

I've been recommending the 3GS 
To friend and family. The new ios rejuvenates it a bit and it's $99 with a plan 

Cheers
Keebler


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## johnnyspade (Aug 24, 2007)

chas_m said:


> Gad I wish people would just shut up about the fake antenna problem already.


Agreed. From what I understand the masses complaining aren't even iPhone 4 owners, they're just haters looking to jump on Apple for some reason. What cell phone are they using that allowed them to never drop a call?


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## thadley (Jul 8, 2008)

One other point I'd throw out there;

I don't know about you guys, but I can count the times I have seen anything BUT full bars on one hand. Ditto for dropped calls (and all of those were to other cell phones, so who's to say for sure it was my phone). Canada in general has very good wireless coverage and very strong wireless coverage. While the antenna Death Grip issue does seem to be, in fact, an issue, I do wonder how much it would affect us up here, since it's been shown to only really be an issue in low signal strength areas, I believe.

In other words, any news on when I can go buy it?


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## mc3251 (Sep 28, 2007)

personally, I am very happy with my 3GS. The fact that I can't upgrade at this point due to my contract is a gift from the technology goddess.


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## JayEyes (Nov 15, 2007)

I had a patient in the office about 10 days ago. He's a student in the US. He had an iPhone 4 he picked up on launch day. I took the opportunity to ask him about the phones performance and he said he personally had no issues. Even in the death grip, without a case of any kind, he said his phone didn't display the signal loss we keep hearing about.

I don't know. Is it the phone, AT&T, a bit of both? Truth is I'll probably get one. I started drinking the cool aid with the 2G and I suspect I'll keep sipping


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2010)

chas_m said:


> Gad I wish people would just shut up about the fake antenna problem already.
> 
> Antenna Expert: Apple is Right, iPhone 4 Signal Woes Overblown - PCWorld
> 
> When frickin' PC WORLD says this whole thing is a huge non-issue, when CONSUMER REPORTS says the bottom line is that the unwashed masses don't understand physics but do understand mass hysteria, and when APPLE says the real problem is AT&T sucks in a lot of places, I think the "issue" is as dead and buried as the "question" of OJ Simpson's guilt.


Chas_m ... I'm not 100% sure that it is a "fake" problem. I think it may be overblown a bit and I do think that AT&T is also partially to blame, but the problem exists and Apple has yet to fess up to the fact that putting the antenna in a spot you could actually *touch* is a bad idea, which is a fact confirmed by just about anyone who knows anything about the physics of this stuff - touching this sort of antenna makes it less effective!

Watch the video, by Erica Sadun -- who is a very trusted dev as far as iPhones go -- and then tell me how fake the problem is:

Video evidence of the iPhone 4 death grip -- this time with real numbers


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## daniels (Jul 27, 2009)

JayEyes said:


> I had a patient in the office about 10 days ago. He's a student in the US. He had an iPhone 4 he picked up on launch day. I took the opportunity to ask him about the phones performance and he said he personally had no issues. Even in the death grip, without a case of any kind, he said his phone didn't display the signal loss we keep hearing about.
> 
> I don't know. Is it the phone, AT&T, a bit of both? Truth is I'll probably get one. I started drinking the cool aid with the 2G and I suspect I'll keep sipping


Maybe its just a few iphone's with the antenna problem, they did do a quick job of making them maybe something went wrong by accident.


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## daniels (Jul 27, 2009)

bsenka said:


> If I was forced to guess what Apple is going to do in the short term, I'd be inclined to go with them including a rubber bumper with each iPhone4. They've already started doing this for some corporate customers in the US.


Guess what i got in the mail today, the skin for me iphone 4 which also includes the side so no bumpers or case's needed. :clap: If anyone else wants one its here, iPhone 4 Skin


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

chas_m said:


> Gad I wish people would just shut up about the fake antenna problem already.
> 
> Antenna Expert: Apple is Right, iPhone 4 Signal Woes Overblown - PCWorld
> 
> When frickin' PC WORLD says this whole thing is a huge non-issue, when CONSUMER REPORTS says the bottom line is that the unwashed masses don't understand physics but do understand mass hysteria, and when APPLE says the real problem is AT&T sucks in a lot of places, I think the "issue" is as dead and buried as the "question" of OJ Simpson's guilt.



Fake issue?? Would you like me to demonstrate it for you? I can take a video of my mom's iPhone 4 if you'd like. WIthout fail, every single time it's held in that position, I can clearly see the signal bars drop until there's no connection whatsoever. During calls, this causes them to drop.

Who is this guy anyway? Why should any of us believe differently just because some shmo is quoted in an article on a website telling us it's "basically a non-issue"?? I've owned every gen iPhone and the 4 is definitely by far the most sensitive to hand placement out of all of them.

All you're doing is buying this BS hook, line and sinker. The evidence is in the many, many personal accounts of dropped calls due to hand placement. I don't see how you could possibly call this a 'fake' issue. Maybe because you don't actually have one, and haven't seen for yourself how sensitive these things are to hand placement.

It may not be as big a deal as some are making it out to be, but it's certainly not fake.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Still waiting for the iPhone 5 with a Micro SD slot.


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## wilecoyote (May 25, 2008)

chas_m said:


> Gad I wish people would just shut up about the fake antenna problem already.
> 
> Antenna Expert: Apple is Right, iPhone 4 Signal Woes Overblown - PCWorld
> 
> When frickin' PC WORLD says this whole thing is a huge non-issue, when CONSUMER REPORTS says the bottom line is that the unwashed masses don't understand physics but do understand mass hysteria, and when APPLE says the real problem is AT&T sucks in a lot of places, I think the "issue" is as dead and buried as the "question" of OJ Simpson's guilt.


You should probably go and check out the blog by the guy who is quoted in the PC WORLD article. After getting the phone, he now claims that there is indeed a problem. It's all here:

AntennaSys Blog - AntennaSys, Inc. - antenna design, integration and consulting.


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## sheamus (May 20, 2010)

That is interesting. I was thinking I wouldn't be affected, as I am a rightie. But I do hold it in my left when doing apps... I am excited to see what he says about the bumper.


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## daniels (Jul 27, 2009)

dolawren said:


> Still waiting for the iPhone 5 with a Micro SD slot.


hehehe that would be nice but then wouldn't Apple make no money in selling higher storage iphones?


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## Crem (Jul 8, 2010)

daniels said:


> Guess what i got in the mail today, the skin for me iphone 4 which also includes the side so no bumpers or case's needed. :clap: If anyone else wants one its here, iPhone 4 Skin


thanks for the link! just put one on order


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## daniels (Jul 27, 2009)

your welcome and welcome to ehMac!


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## Crem (Jul 8, 2010)

thanks daniels!


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## kevleviathan (Apr 9, 2008)

kloan said:


> Fake issue?? Would you like me to demonstrate it for you? I can take a video of my mom's iPhone 4 if you'd like. WIthout fail, every single time it's held in that position, I can clearly see the signal bars drop until there's no connection whatsoever. During calls, this causes them to drop.
> 
> Who is this guy anyway? Why should any of us believe differently just because some shmo is quoted in an article on a website telling us it's "basically a non-issue"?? I've owned every gen iPhone and the 4 is definitely by far the most sensitive to hand placement out of all of them.
> 
> ...


I'm more interested in the touch aspect, not the death grip.

If you put the phone on a table, and simply touch with one finger the black band (and bridge the two metal parts), does the signal still drop? If it's a touch problem, then it's serious. That means somehow the skin is "bridging" sections of the antennas. If the problem only happens with a full-on death grip... less of an issue. That means there is no capacitance going on and the issue is simply one of dampening the signal with your hand.

On TWiT they interviewed the guy who wrote the article, and according to him he put thin tape over the metal and it made no difference - the death grip still killed the signal. His conclusion was that the issue is due to the hand's extreme proximity to the physical antenna. If you use a bumper case, the extra centimetre or two is enough to make the issue go away. Seems like a poor design choice to me, but not a deal breaker necessarily.


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## MacUnited (Nov 1, 2009)

I still say, they could dip the antennas in some isolation material before attaching it to the phone, I suppose this solves the problem?
and if the guy who says a thin tape didn't solve the issue, I guess daniels is short 10 bucks


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

kevleviathan said:


> I'm more interested in the touch aspect, not the death grip.
> 
> If you put the phone on a table, and simply touch with one finger the black band (and bridge the two metal parts), does the signal still drop? If it's a touch problem, then it's serious. That means somehow the skin is "bridging" sections of the antennas. If the problem only happens with a full-on death grip... less of an issue. That means there is no capacitance going on and the issue is simply one of dampening the signal with your hand.
> 
> On TWiT they interviewed the guy who wrote the article, and according to him he put thin tape over the metal and it made no difference - the death grip still killed the signal. His conclusion was that the issue is due to the hand's extreme proximity to the physical antenna. If you use a bumper case, the extra centimetre or two is enough to make the issue go away. Seems like a poor design choice to me, but not a deal breaker necessarily.


Well, fwiw I didn't use the "death grip".. I just held it in such a way that I was touching both parts, bridging each side, and yes the signal did drop.

I never even heard of this "death grip" until a while later... the term seems to be catching on, and in a way is giving people the wrong impression of the issue altogether.

It's such a pathetic mistake. How much do you want to bet Apple knew exactly of this issue and it's why they also announced the bumper case simultaneously with the release of the iPhone 4?

One theory is that they moved the antennas down to the bottom to get around the high SAR rating. Pretty slimy if that really is the reason.

All I know is I have less respect for Apple every time they do something like this.


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## kevleviathan (Apr 9, 2008)

Yes... I can't tell if the issue is a tight grip or skin contact on that bottom corner.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

mguertin said:


> Chas_m ... I'm not 100% sure that it is a "fake" problem.


You're right, that was an overreach. My apologies to anyone who was offended.



> I think it may be overblown a bit


I think it's overblown a LOT. This problem has, as repeatedly proven by tech sites like Engadget who have no love for Apple, been around since the beginning of all cell phones.



> Apple has yet to fess up to the fact that putting the antenna in a spot you could actually *touch* is a bad idea


That's not the actual problem at all. All cell phones have their antennas where you can touch them. Read the article from the antenna designer featured in the PC world article.



> which is a fact confirmed by just about anyone who knows anything about the physics of this stuff - touching this sort of antenna makes it less effective!


Yes, but not dramatically so. As Apple states (and the antenna designer confirms), attenuation (touching the antenna) isn't really a problem. The problem is that Apple's software gives you a more accurate reading of signal strength when you do that, essentially, which jars with what the phone's software was telling you before (because it was telling you incorrectly before).

I haven't seen a single scientific test conducted by anyone that shows that the iPhone 4's antenna design is actually worse than the previous iPhone antenna designs for reception. Exactly the opposite, actually.


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2010)

Did you watch the video chas_m?


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## Speediakal (Jun 9, 2008)

Regardless of if it is a big issue or not, a phone shouldn't have an exposed antennae that is prone to attenuation, especially in a spot where is going to get held. The previous iPhones never had this problem. I have touched my iPhone 3G in soo many places and nothing has happened.

Even so, the glass backing was told to hold up extremely well. Apple lied. 3 drops and it shatters.

The retina display was having yellowing on it. Albeit, Apple support is really good and would most likely replace it right away if you went to an Apple Store.

The thing I hate the most of this launch is that Apple flat-out lied. This phone doesn't revolutionize anything, it's playing catch-up with the Android (Don't whip out the app store card, we've all heard it. More apps doesn't make you a better phone.). The glass is more fragile than what Apple told us. And FaceTime is a waste. We have laptops that can do it for cheaper to talk to far away relatives. Putting a 5MP camera in isn't really being competitive when the iPhones main competition has an 8MP camera and no antennae issues, no white screen blotching, and more durable.


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## sheamus (May 20, 2010)

It is not contact that causes the reception problem but distance. A skin will not help at all, not would dipping it in an _insulating_ liquid. The bumper works because it puts distance between your hand and antennae.
~S


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## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

Just look around youtube and you'll find videos which demonstrate the effect of holding the phone on signal strength and the ability to pass data. Data flow doesn't just dip a little, it drops off drastically and then stalls entirely.

This isn't just a reporting issue in software as Apple is claiming. That's such a lame answer it's almost as bad as "hold it differently". I said on day one of this issue that the bumpers were to address this issue and that Apple was fudging things.

Sure this is an issue in all cell phones with internal antennas. Every other phone seems to be managing though while the iPhone 4 is not. I'm not buying an iPhone 4 until I see definitive proof that the problem has been fixed and Apple squares up on this.


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## kevleviathan (Apr 9, 2008)

chas_m said:


> That's not the actual problem at all. All cell phones have their antennas where you can touch them. Read the article from the antenna designer featured in the PC world article.


That's not really what he said... the antennas have all been internal for a long time (inside the phone) and they are all susceptible to weak signal when you cover the whole phone with your hand. The iPhone 4's antenna IS the metal band on the outside. I'm not sure if we've ever had direct skin contact with a phone antenna before.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

daniels said:


> 2. Decrease Signal Strength if Held With Left-Hand


So it's better to hold one with one's right hand?


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## andreww (Nov 20, 2002)

dona83 said:


> So it's better to hold one with one's right hand?


That is correct.


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## Thundaboom (Jul 8, 2010)

Well isn't that a slap in the face for left handed people.


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## andreww (Nov 20, 2002)

Thundaboom said:


> Well isn't that a slap in the face for left handed people.


I'm right handed, but I hold my phone with my left hand


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2010)

andreww said:


> I'm right handed, but I hold my phone with my left hand


Same with me.


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## MacUnited (Nov 1, 2009)

actually, as a rule of thumb, people will hold the phone with the opposite hand, so lefties will most probably use their right hand to hold the phone, and righties will hold the phone with the left hand.. so it's more like a slap in the face to righties.
However, I just pre-ordered a case.
a case to a phone I didn't buy yet, this can't be healthy, can it?? lol


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

As a rule of thumb? According to who exactly? lol.... I'm right handed, I use my right hand to hold the phone.


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## MacUnited (Nov 1, 2009)

the rule of thumb is that people use the opposing hand to hold the phone, so if you are a right handed person and you use your left hand to hold the phone, allowing your right hand, to function freely while holding the phone.
however, rule of thumbs are mainly generalization, and some lucky folks such as yourself may not fall into that generalization.. yay you!!


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

hmm, not necessarily cuz now that you mention it while im holding the phone in my right hand, i cant write anything down.....


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## MacUnited (Nov 1, 2009)

Thank god for emails and text messages then  lol


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