# Should I buy a iPod or an iRiver?



## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

*Should I buy an iPod or an iRiver?*

The iRiver is 256 mb with an FM radio, Voice recording, Powered by one "AA"
battery and comes with an FM transmitter by way of a special offer at Circuit City.

The iPod Shuffle on the other hand is 512 mb with no extras except it has
complete compatibility with iTunes and my Mac.


Hmmm...Which one should I buy?


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## kevs~just kevs (Mar 21, 2005)

do you a need a voice recorder? And in my mind the mp3 player gets rid of the need for a radio... so as my signiture indicates, i'd go with the shuffle.


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## DBerG (May 24, 2005)

*IPOD! THERE is NO QUESTION ABOUT It. PERIOD.*

Don't try to help companies who copied Apple, I hate all of 'em, but that doesn't influence my choice here. iPod is a huge hit. I listen to mine almost 7 hours everyday, so...
Trying to get rid of the anti-scream feature.


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## robert (Sep 26, 2002)

I never found a good FM receiver in any walkman/portable unit ever. Now, when AM ruled, the portable radio made sense.
But I degress. Buy the shuffle.


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## theanticrust (Jan 24, 2004)

I think the question is, what type of listener are you?

If you like listening to songs in a order (like listening to albums, or playlists) go for the iriver. And if your just a random song listener, obviously get the shuffle.


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## mclenaghan (Sep 27, 2002)

I would go with the shuffle for three reasons:

1. to support Apple as the others have said.
2. use the shuffle which recharges itself and thus doesn't create dead batteries in the landfills that are running out.
3. how often would you really use the voice recorder or the FM radio if you have the music you want on your playlist?


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

theanticrust said:


> I think the question is, what type of listener are you?
> 
> If you like listening to songs in a order (like listening to albums, or playlists) go for the iriver. And if your just a random song listener, obviously get the shuffle.


You can turn the shuffle option off on the iPod Shuffle.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

iPod, iPod, iPod.... not because its Apple, but because it works and holds twice as many songs (or the same number of sings plus 256 Mb of USB drive space). The only reason for not buying an iPod is if you need to play WMA tracks. The iPod shuffle is extremely well integrated into iTunes such that you can auto-load and control all of your tracks. Then play em on the shuffle (either in turn or shuffled - there are two modes).


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## DBerG (May 24, 2005)

used to be jwoodget said:


> The only reason for not buying an iPod is if you need to play WMA tracks.


He said he had a Mac, besides iTunes can convert (I love this option) any non-protected WMA file into aac!


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

I mean't DRM'd WMA - but there aren't that many of thoooose around


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

I'd get the iPod, mostly because it holds 120 songs.

The iRiver may have an FM tuner, but to me all that means is that you can listen to talking, advertising, and the same 15 songs all day.


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## hailing (Sep 7, 2004)

I'd actually have to say go for the iRiver - I own the iRiver iFP-790T, and it's fantastic.

I listen to CBC Radio One alot (talk radio, no ads - I refuse to listen to commercial radio) as well as my mp3s. Out of all the MP3 players I've owned, I've found the iRivers to have the best tuners. I really do like the iPod, but the lack of FM tuner really keeps me away. I also require the in-line recording capabilities of the iRiver.

Some people listen to CBC (and in the US, NPR), you know!

If you don't need a radio, voice recorder or screen, then I'm sure the shuffle will do you fine.


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## DBerG (May 24, 2005)

hailing said:


> If you don't need a radio, voice recorder or screen, then I'm sure the shuffle will do you fine.


No one need that when you have a fabulous iPPPPPPPPPPPPPPooood!


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## hailing (Sep 7, 2004)

Heh, once again, music is great. however, CBC Radio shows are really fantastic...


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## Mac Yak (Feb 7, 2005)

*This might be heresy to some, but ...*

... a friend of mine wanted an mp3 player for his travels. He also said he wanted to listen to (and record) some of the local radio stations of the countries he visits. Without hesistation, I told him to get an iRiver. It's what he needed. Nothing in the iPod line would have suited his requirements as well or at the same price or with the same convenience factor as the iRiver.

He's one of the 20 or so percent of the digital-audio market who *need* or want something other than an iPod. That's good -- a decent marketplace is supposed to fill a wide variety of needs.

Me, I'm exceedingly happy with my 1GB shuffle. I don't need a radio, and my cellphone has all the voice-recording capability I currently require. As for supporting Apple, one look at my sig will tell you that I'm doing my part...


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## hailing (Sep 7, 2004)

Mac Yak said:


> ... a friend of mine wanted an mp3 player for his travels. He also said he wanted to listen to (and record) some of the local radio stations of the countries he visits. Without hesistation, I told him to get an iRiver. It's what he needed. Nothing in the iPod line would have suited his requirements as well or at the same price or with the same convenience factor as the iRiver.
> 
> He's one of the 20 or so percent of the digital-audio market who *need* or want something other than an iPod. That's good -- a decent marketplace is supposed to fill a wide variety of needs.
> 
> Me, I'm exceedingly happy with my 1GB shuffle. I don't need a radio, and my cellphone has all the voice-recording capability I currently require. As for supporting Apple, one look at my sig will tell you that I'm doing my part...


Here here! Exactly what I was trying to say.


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## DBerG (May 24, 2005)

Mac Yak said:


> He's one of the 20 or so percent of the digital-audio market who *need* or want something other than an iPod. That's good -- a decent marketplace is supposed to fill a wide variety of needs.


That's what Apple is trying to do, let them some time! Long life to Apple!



Mac Yak said:


> As for supporting Apple, one look at my sig will tell you that I'm doing my part...


Yeah! Great!

I don't like the iriver because I think it's pure copy and paste. It's an iPod with a tortured touchpad or sth like that with fancy colors that are going anywhere. Why put colors if you're listening to music?? It requires more battery power (not sure though) and a more expensive LCD screen.


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## hailing (Sep 7, 2004)

DBerG said:


> That's what Apple is trying to do, let them some time! Long life to Apple!
> 
> 
> Yeah! Great!
> ...


The iRiver flash players the OP is talking about doesn't have a colour LCD, AFAIK. I always think it's nice to be able to get the title of the song I'm listening to.


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## DBerG (May 24, 2005)

hailing said:


> The iRiver flash players the OP is talking about doesn't have a colour LCD, AFAIK. I always think it's nice to be able to get the title of the song I'm listening to.


Oh sorry, I only saw the iPod-like-iriver. Never mind gang!!!


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## bmovie (Jan 18, 2003)

If you're comparing the 512 iRiver and the 512 ipod shuffle, then I would say the iRiver. 
I happen to have the iRiver 256, got it 3 years ago and it's great. I get to see the song titles, it has an EQ, shuffle mode. Repeat mode, auto shut off with a time limit - so you can set it for 30 minutes and after that it shuts off, voice recording (which I used to record my daughters first words) FM radio when i'm bored with what I have on it. 
I just wish it was the 512mb model.

Oh I forgot to mention that you can record what's playing on the radio as well.

The other nice thing is that it takes just ONE AA battery, and it last a long time.
Also the software is OS X compatible (even with Tiger)

The ipod shuffle doesn't have any of these. Ok fine it's iTunes compatible - BIG DEAL! I can drag from my itunes window on to the iRiver software and copy my files.

Just because it has a little apple logo on it doesn't mean it's better.


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## DBerG (May 24, 2005)

bmovie said:


> Just because it has a little apple logo on it doesn't mean it's better.


No that mean that they put design and care in the product. (Not by manufacturing, but by creating and designing it). I love my iPod 4G 20GB. I won't trade it for 1M$........Actually yes, so I could buy 206720 iPods!


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## TimStalin (May 22, 2005)

@ bmovie - What are the controls like on your iRiver? Just curious as I can't quite tell how intuitive they are.

I have a shuffle and I'm very happy with it, I just wish I had bought a 512 instead of a 1G. But what I like most about it is that it is simple, simple, simple. It plays music and that is pretty much it. But then again I bought it for jogging so I have no need for anything other than its basic function, and the controls are simple enough to access through clothing and blind.

I personally like choice and hope other manufacturers can keep Apple honest and innovative with their iPods. But if someone can make an overall better music player & software than Apple I'm all for it. Apple should only get people's money if they deserve it.

I mentioned this in another thread but - my shuffle recently helped break my fall and it is no worse for wear. I'm sure glad it didn't have a display.


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## i stole this name (May 9, 2005)

The iPod shuffle has been a funny device since launch, to see all the macheads flock to its purchase. An MP3 player without a screen. Only from iPod, people.

iRiver fo-shizzle.


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## ice_hackey (Aug 13, 2004)

Think Different™
Get the iRiver, iPods are so last year.

J/K The shuffle is pretty nice.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Wow!!!...

Quite the response and diversity of replies of why I should consider buying
either one, But I decided to go with the iRiver, Thanks for the interesting replies.

The sales guy tried to sell me an extended 3 year warranty but I assured him
that I'll most likely be thowing the thing away after the 2nd year and that a
warranty to me would be worthless. (Such is our disposable society)

The iRiver sounds great, But boy is this puppy complicated,
Luckily I've read novel type owner manuals in the past.

It's almost fragile in my hands.

All in all it's a lot better than the Lexar Jump drive player that I had for less than
a year, The audio jack on that thing broke in the 8th month, Luckily I could still
use the USB drive part and just throw away the modular player part.

Now all I need is a car to go with the free FM transmitter bonus that I got with the iRiver player.


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## thejst (Feb 1, 2005)

good for you for making an informed choice. I love my shuffle, but I can still see the merits of other Mp3 players...Have fun!


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## bmovie (Jan 18, 2003)

TimStalin said:


> @ bmovie - What are the controls like on your iRiver? Just curious as I can't quite tell how intuitive they are.



The controls are three button and a joystick like device that you can push up down left and right and down.
takes a bit of getting used to and they give the device quite a few options. Very well designed.


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## interact (Mar 11, 2004)

dolawren said:


> The iRiver sounds great, But boy is this puppy complicated,
> Luckily I've read novel type owner manuals in the past.


I think this is where the shuffle would factor in as being "better", but you'll get familiar with the iRiver UI and it's features really interested you - it'll just take time. Hope you love the new toy.


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## TheBat (Feb 11, 2005)

A variety of devices / competition is very important. I wouldn't want 100% of the portable market to be owned by Apple. Competition will keep the iPods improving, otherwise we may ALL still be using 1G iPods!!

The flipside is that I am amazed at some of the utter trash that masquerades as portable / MP3 music players. Most should just go straight in to the garbage. Yet some people still find a use for them!


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## hailing (Sep 7, 2004)

interact said:


> I think this is where the shuffle would factor in as being "better", but you'll get familiar with the iRiver UI and it's features really interested you - it'll just take time. Hope you love the new toy.


Agreed, you will definately get used to the GUI - the iFP-790T is my third iRiver product (I have an older 128MB player, as well as an MP3/CD player) and I'm completely used to it.


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## pingpong (Jun 16, 2004)

People sometimes get too irrational about Apple. Apple has great products, but not all the products fit you, or there are better choices.

iriver is the one.

I have an irvier IFP-390T for two years. I chose iriver because:
1. FM, I listen to FM 50% of the time.
2. I prefer the battery, I use AA rechargeble batteries(environment friendly), and I can change battery on my way. Actually I hate Apple's battery, it's not standard and changeable.
3. voice recording is great. I record classes and speeches. When I prepare for presentations, I record my own speeches and listen again. 
4. sound. many people said the sound is suppior than ipod and most other mp3 players. I can't confirm this however.
5. 256m fits my needs. I don't need 4g or 20g.
6. It's very light and small, there was no ipod shuffle at the time.

And iriver has two shortcomings. 
1. the control is not intuitive enough.
2. can't use a SD card.


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## Elias26 (Apr 19, 2005)

Honestly, I would say neither one.

I personally would go with a personal CD player that has MP3 playback. Meaning your player can run CD-RWs.

This past year I purchased a Panasonic Shockwave with AM/FM tuner for $129.99 Cdn which is cheaper than the 512 GB Shuffle. Or is it the 1 GB Shuffle I am thinking of?

Either way it's more cost effective to me. Now lets see, for storage.. awww, my player can play CD-RWs that can hold up to 700 MB of information, which is 188 MB more than a 512 MB Shuffle. I knows me math! But wait, there's more! My CD player also can change discs... meaning my player is expandable. But instead of the shape or form of a SD card it's a CD! Another beautiful thing about my personal CD player, it has a great AM/FM tuner. All the radio stations come in extremely clear with little to no static.

I love the headphones setup on my Shockwave. The actual headphones are padded and are designed with this piece that wraps all away around the ear so it won't fall off when I run or jog. I hate the earbud style of the iPod line because they have a tendency to want to fall from your ears. That and they irritate my ears something fierce. Nothing that an old trade off of headphones can't take care of.

I don't need a billion songs to choose from. Between my AM/FM tuner and the fact that a CD-RW can hold enough songs to last me an entire workout... I just see no point in putting money into a MP3 player. I don't want any of you cult loving iPod fanatics to get mad at me now, but I heard that the sound quality on these iPods are nothing special, and this is coming from friends and family members who are iPod owners. My cousin has the white basic 20 GB iPod while my friend (sort of) has the Limited Edition U2 version. I might be wrong, but besides the beautiful clean look of the iPods and their user friendly setup, nobody seems to dwelve into the quality of the sound that these units produce. I wouldn't be surprised if my Shockwave player produces sound that equals or surpasses that of even the $400-600 iPods. Again, I could be wrong. To me, sound quality is a HUGE selling factor when it comes to listening devices.

Edit: Another thing I forgot to mention, depending where you live, iPods is to the new millennium as Nike Air shoes was to the early 90's. You don't wanna be caught dead with one of those puppies on you, if you're in a seedy area. *heh*


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## i stole this name (May 9, 2005)

A CD player, or any Disc device is generally a bad idea by todays standards.

a) They are quite large, and the smallest ones (which are still large mind you) are much more expensive

b) You cannot simply plug it in and sync your music, you have to select and burn

c) IF the final resort was a Disc playing device then i strongly reccomend an MD player over a CD player.


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## Elias26 (Apr 19, 2005)

Well, too late. I already bought my Shockwave and it delivers tremendous sound quality for the buck. I don't like MD. Heck, I didn't even know they still sold those things. 

But nonetheless, those problems mean nothing to me. And as for size, size schmize... I don't feel that my CD player is a helluva lot bigger than the big boy iPods.

Last but not least, I am not one to really burn music. I was never into pirating of music... I buy CDs of musicians I like.... so far I have made good choices. I don't remember the last album I had purchased where I had only liked a few songs on it.

Edit: Bad idea? Yeah, what a bad idea to buy a product I have gotten so much use and entertainment out of. That was affordable and gave me what I wanted. A music device that I can listen to when I workout or when I am on the go.


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## i stole this name (May 9, 2005)

Ok jeez i was just stating that a discman is not the device for many people these days, you dont have to get your panties in a twist over it.

If you like it, good for you, but i'm sure that he was aware of them. He asked for one between the two flash players, so give him a hand with that.

Who said anything about music pirating? Stop living in the last millenium and you'll notice that a fair amount of people buy music online. When i want to burn my iTMS music, it has nothing to do with pirating.


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## MBD (Sep 1, 2003)

I agree with a lot of things PingPong says. I have both the iRiver (older style 128 mb) and an iPod. I like my iPod because I can put my whole library on it and listen to it as I drive my long commute into work. Also, it has a very intuitive interface.

I bought the iRiver (the cheapest I could find at the time) for recording and FM radio. So, basically I did the Pooh principle: why get one when you can have both? 

The iRiver interface is a pain. I still have not mastered it but the recordings are very good and you can record from the FM radio - these are the reasons I wanted it.


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## darkscot (Nov 13, 2003)

i stole this name said:


> Who said anything about music pirating? Stop living in the last millenium and you'll notice that a fair amount of people buy music online. When i want to burn my iTMS music, it has nothing to do with pirating.


Also.. a lot of people copy their legit songs from CD


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## Chealion (Jan 16, 2001)

Elias26 - MP3 players (including the iPod) play a compressed lossy file. Just how compressed your friends have their files I don't know but the big idea behind MP3 players (ignoring that time in 2001 when that crazy Apple company thought people should take their entire library with them) was being able to make a custom set of songs similar to a custom made CD that was easier to change and considerably smaller.

That said, choosing an MP3 player really does depend on what you want to do with it. The iPod shuffle is a rather simple idea, but it's been marketed well and using iTunes makes the job easy. The only problem per se is that it is designed for people who just want to put music on it and listen. They already know the songs, or just want it to play random, which is actually a pretty large amount of the market if you really think about it. (It's nice to have the screen, but how often do you really use the screen?)

It's up to what the person wants, though I'm not sure why people always feel it necessary to buy features they never will use.



DBerG said:


> He said he had a Mac, besides iTunes can convert (I love this option) any non-protected WMA file into aac!


This doesn't work in the Mac version of iTunes. It's an iTunes Windows only feature since it has to use Windows Media Library files only found in Windows 2000 and Windows XP.


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## Kami (Jul 29, 2002)

dolawren said:


> Wow!!!...
> 
> Now all I need is a car to go with the free FM transmitter bonus that I got with the iRiver player.


If you don't mind me asking, where were you able to find an iriver with the free transmitter? Thanks


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

The sound quality of MP3/AAC players largely depends on the bit rate you rip to. The larger iPods (not the shuffle) can play Apple lossless and AIFF (lossless is about 50% smaller than AIFF which is totally uncompressed - aka what you have on CDs). Playing lossless or AIFF files, the iPod is sonically about as good as you can buy according to Audiophile magazine. However, most people compress their music so as to get more songs onto their players. The iTMS sells tracks encoded at 128 kbp/s which is fairly high compression.

The shuffle only plays the following file formats: MP3 (8 to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, AAC (8 to 320 Kbps), Protected AAC (from iTunes Music Store, M4A, M4B, M4P), Audible (formats 2, 3, and 4) and WAV. 

The HD ipods play: AAC (16 to 320 Kbps), Protected AAC (from iTunes Music Store), MP3 (16 to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, Audible (formats 2, 3, and 4), Apple Lossless, WAV, AIFF.

Of course, the sound of your player is also dependent on the quality of the earphones you are using, whether you are using line-out (on the dock), an FM transmitter, etc, etc.

The bottom line is that the audio quality of iPods is excellent (although I've heard that iPod photos do have a high frequency problem with some types of music). I'm sure the iRiver sounds good too!


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## Heart (Jan 16, 2001)

I own iPod mini (4GB) Demo unit for $189Cdn
iRiver 795 (512MB) $149Cdn, 
and a iPod Shuffle (512MB)$129Cdn

Purchased in that order and just got the iPod Shuffle yesterday.

The mini is designed for capacity and I can navigate the gigs of songs and PODCASTS that I have on it. As for saving data it is just the right amount of space and I have been very satisfied with it.

The iRiver is for recording PODCASTS, and does a great job recording. And I do apreciate the 'AA' battery and the 30 plus hours of battery life. It is bulky, not slim like the iPod mini or Shuffle.
The user interface *SUCKS !!!! * Did I say that loud enough. I have not used the radio. And will not with all the specialized songs and podcasts I have lined up. The software for getting your info on the iRiver *SUCKS* too! Not easy or intuitive. You can save files on the iRiver for backup.

[Geek Alert!]
Oh, wait a minute I did try the FM radio out on the iRiver, I started up the iPod mini and attached my iTrip to it and broadcasted it to the iRiver FM radio - And it worked 
[/end Geek Alert!]

The iPod shuffle is SEXY. Small, sexy, easy to use, sexy, light, sexy, thin, sexy.
Set up your song list, load it and go. So far the battery is going strong but am testing right now.


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## DBerG (May 24, 2005)

Heart said:


> The user interface *SUCKS !!!! * Did I say that loud enough.


I KNEW IT!!!


Heart said:



> The iPod shuffle is SEXY. Small, sexy, easy to use, sexy, light, sexy, thin, sexy.
> Set up your song list, load it and go. So far the battery is going strong but am testing right now.


 Yeah! I KNEW IT!!! Seriously, the shuffle is REALLY F***** GREAT if you want a small flash player.


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## theonly_bandever_ (Jun 7, 2005)

Right now I have a Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen Xtra, and I'm considering selling it for a 20GB iPod. My major problem with mine is that the interface is clunky and it could sound better, plus I'm going to be getting a Mac, and I'm now really into Podcasts, so I want the automatic update support.


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## DBerG (May 24, 2005)

theonly_bandever_ said:


> Right now I have a Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen Xtra, and I'm considering selling it for a 20GB iPod. My major problem with mine is that the interface is clunky and it could sound better, plus I'm going to be getting a Mac, and I'm now really into Podcasts, so I want the automatic update support.


Welcome to the iPod revolution! I found that Creative sux, with my Nomad. (The First One!!!!!)


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## theonly_bandever_ (Jun 7, 2005)

Oh, and I got addicted to Music Trivia on the iPod, I was playing on my friends iPod for a long time, then I got addicted.


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## Elias26 (Apr 19, 2005)

i stole my name, thanks for the concern but I am relaxed.  Funny how people assume things about others on the internet based solely on text.  I was hardly upset. Now look how Chealion replied to my message. He handled it very maturely. I appreciate that.

I personally have no reason to own an iPod. I gave my opinion as I am entitled to do so on these forums. I like personal CD players more. That shouldn't be a problem? Perhaps some of my facts are a bit misconstrued. I personally don't own a MP3 player so I can't say a whole lot other than what I have seen and I have been told. But I personally like the ease and use of a CD player over a MP3. The headphones (albeit are cheap to upgrade or change up) and the hefty price tag are things that don't wet my appetite for an iPod. I can love the Apple brand without being won over by their MP3 player line, right? Rhetorical question. 

You are correct though, not everyone who uses a MP3 player pirates music, but the numbers are still significantly high out there. Perhaps not with iTunes, but then again not everyone uses iTunes. 

btw Chealion I'll pass that little bit of information on to my cousin.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Kami said:


> If you don't mind me asking, where were you able to find an iriver with the free transmitter? Thanks


Circuit City (Used to be Radio Shack)

http://www.thesourcecc.com/estore/P...log=Online&category=MP3-Flash&product=1419122

There are no online flyers, But the actual physical flyer shows the player with an
iRiver FM transmitter as a bonus.

(BTW...The online spec's of the iRiver at Circuit City has a typo on the battery type,
They have it listed as using a AAA type battery, Which it doesn't use, It uses an AA type)


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## Sakurina (Jun 20, 2005)

I know it's a late reply of sorts, but I don't have many problems with third-party MP3 players. I coded an Applescript that simply does the same functionality as the Shuffle's Autofill does, so I just plug in my MP3 player, type in a few letters (via an app launcher), and it fills up my flash player (RCA Lyra, FYI). (I also have one that takes the selected playlist, and copies it over.)

The Shuffle wasn't released when I got mine, and anyways, I learned to live with it. If you pretend the screen isn't there and you leave it on shuffle, it comes down to pretty much the same thing minus the Apple brand.

I'm going to be getting Tiger soon, so I might fix something up with Automator if possible, and then I might make it public.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I'm still playing around with the iRiver and have discovered the 3-D sound
setting and the equalizer, This thing sounds amazing now after tweeking it.

I went shopping for some nicer headphones for an average price at Future/Best Buy, 
But came up empty handed, I couldn't see anything worth buying.

My old Pioneer headphones are the best ones I've used with the iRiver so far.
(While on the subway the sound of the subway clacking through the tunnel is almost cancelled out completely)

Anyone found a nice pair of low power consuming but loud playing headphones
for the iRiver with almost all external sound cancelling abilities?

Priced between $39. - $89. and are over the ear type of headphones.


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## Heart (Jan 16, 2001)

3D Sound - Is nice - Kinda wrapped around you head.

I set it to 3D sound all the time.


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## jonmon (Feb 15, 2002)

Heart said:


> The iPod shuffle is SEXY. Small, sexy, easy to use, sexy, light, sexy, thin, sexy.
> Set up your song list, load it and go. So far the battery is going strong but am testing right now.


i seem to be only listening to two albums right now, so i'm considering picking up a shuffle. plus for something to run with.


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## MacME (Mar 15, 2005)

i think the Sony Network Walkman are hot ... although pricey!


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## jonmon (Feb 15, 2002)

i would buy one except for that sonic stage software

oled display.. drool


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I've heard that if you switch to the T.D. bank then they would give you an iPod
Shuffle for free, I'm not sure if I'd want to switch my banking to T.D. though.
(I'm not sure when the promotion ends, Probably soon, Edit: See below)

Edit:
Here's a link to the promotion in case someone is interested.
http://www.tdcanadatrust.com/accounts/ipod2.jsp?source=WB357792


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## gwillikers (Jun 19, 2003)

MacME said:


> i think the Sony Network Walkman are hot ... although pricey!


It's very close to being a great player, but it has a way to go yet. Here's a good review to explain what I mean.

Sony, like Apple, has their poop together, and I have no doubt that they'll have a Network Walkman that kicks butt very soon.


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