# WWDC: What's up Apple's sleeve?



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)




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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

CubaMark said:


>


+1

What does it say about us when we gladly turn our money over to the richest company in the world over and over again?


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## Z06jerry (Mar 16, 2005)

fjnmusic said:


> +1
> 
> What does it say about us when we gladly turn our money over to the richest company in the world over and over again?


smart folks like to deal with smartly managed successful companies?


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

and make money doing so for many of my clients and myself 
tho Apple is no so generous sharing the wealth.


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## equisol (Jan 12, 2008)

The Apple store is down for updates, looks like new models coming out.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Yes, the Apple Store is down - and I must say, I am peeved. Peeved! I tell you!*

Why? Apple just had to go and mess with something that wasn't broken. We cannot stand for this! The continuing disappearance of all the vestiges of the Apple we once knew and loved has to stop!

*I mean, just look at this! This is what you're greeted by if you visit the Apple Store right now:*










*This is what always used to greet us on days like these... colourful! Fun! Friendly! But alas, no more! * :-(


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

Interesting - the first image gives me an upbeat feeling of what to expect - the second one is more of an annoyance.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

TechCrunch is also commenting on this atrocity....



> Once upon a time, the Apple store placeholder was a post-it note, with the text appearing in the same default font used in the Notes application. But more recently, Apple changed the page to something a bit more mature, with standard Apple font on a white place card. But alas, the same linen finish seen on the Siri application has taken over the entirety of the background of the page. Except… it isn’t dark grey, it’s silver.
> 
> If you remember correctly, one of the major rumors of this year’s iOS 6 announcement is the possibility that Apple is switching up the color scheme of its UI, from a muted blue to silver.


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## dwp (Aug 12, 2003)

QUICK! Someone get Mark a glass of apple juice! We're losing him!


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Nah... I'll be alright. Embrace change, they say. T-minus one hour to the event... I have two liveblog sites ready to check, and despite having not slept in almost 30 hours, I'm feeling surprisingly 'present'. See y'all in a bit. Anybody going to be in the ehMac chat room at 1pm EDT?


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## winwintoo (Nov 9, 2004)

I used to be first in line, now nobody tells me about these events until long after they happen. What happened?


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## Garry (Jan 27, 2002)

I'll be in the ehmac chat room if I can get in with the iMessage beta


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Canadian English coming to iOS 6! It's about time!!!

Mountain Lion $19.99, better start saving my pennies to upgrade my wife's Air.  She'll love Airplay Mirroring.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Wonder why they didn't announce a release date for Mountain Lion.... maybe they're going to release it TODAY? :huh:

*EDIT: * _Apparently the dude doing the liveblog for iFans.com missed it when they said ML will be available in July_ (for $19.99 site license - nice eh?)


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

no ethernet, no Firewire, no 34 cardslot..... hmmmmm


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Dave: Yeah, well, that *is* for the top-of-the-line, new super-duper-MacBook-Pro of the Future... and ethernet / Firewire can be had with a Thunderbolt adapter... the 13" and 15" models still have the same ports they had yesterday.

Meanwhile... looks like Apple is making 1Password, Readability, Growl, and a few other apps unnecessary...

And: I can't remember a previous Apple Event that has packed so much stuff into the presentation... and still about 20 minutes to go....


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Google Maps is toast in iOS6. Turn-by-Turn navigation, Siri-enabled.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

WHOA! "FlyOver"


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

I'm more excited about Navigation, I'm tired of TomTom hogging 1.5GB of my iPhone's storage lol. What concerns me is that it needs Siri? Does that shut out my iPhone 4? I can live without voice prompt navigation but I like being told if I need to turn left/right/etc.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

The lack of a Mac Pro update is a rather large surprise... and disappointing for many, especially at a Developer's conference, no?

....and now that I think of it... no mention of the 17" MacBook Pro either....


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

I noticed that as well. Well rumour sites expected Apple to ditch the 17" MBP. Perhaps the Mac Pro will be a silent update?


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## dwp (Aug 12, 2003)

MBP video now up on apple.ca


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## Chimpur (May 1, 2009)

No Mac Pro or iMac updates. Hmmmm... though given what they announced today... they might be updated at a later time. Perhaps when the new iPhone gets unveiled?


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

CubaMark said:


> and now that I think of it... no mention of the 17" MacBook Pro either....


It's discontinued.


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## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

I am going to be getting a new MacBook Pro, my only question and its probably a dumb one, is can the flash hard drive be replaced with a regular hard drive? 256 gigs is no where near enough, and regular hard drives are just cheaper for larger volume.

I am assuming the answer is yes, but its always nice to be sure first.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

wonderings said:


> I am going to be getting a new MacBook Pro, my only question and its probably a dumb one, is can the flash hard drive be replaced with a regular hard drive? 256 gigs is no where near enough, and regular hard drives are just cheaper for larger volume.
> 
> I am assuming the answer is yes, but its always nice to be sure first.


Who knows until someone opens it up.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

wonderings said:


> I am going to be getting a new MacBook Pro, my only question and its probably a dumb one, is can the flash hard drive be replaced with a regular hard drive? 256 gigs is no where near enough, and regular hard drives are just cheaper for larger volume.
> 
> I am assuming the answer is yes, but its always nice to be sure first.


No.

RAM is non-upgradable as a side FYI. The Flash drive is similar to the one used in the MacBook Air, so it cannot be easily / cheaply replaced - it is not a 2.5" drive. I'm sure third-party replacements will arrive later, but they will not be inexpensive (OWC makes replacement drives for the MBA but they are pricey).


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## dwp (Aug 12, 2003)

Check apple.ca under Mac. Not positive but I think the new Mac Pro might be there. Also look under server.


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## harzack86 (Jan 30, 2005)

Not even a floppy drive or an ADB connector   



MacDoc said:


> no ethernet, no Firewire, no 34 cardslot..... hmmmmm


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## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

Lars said:


> No.
> 
> RAM is non-upgradable as a side FYI. The Flash drive is similar to the one used in the MacBook Air, so it cannot be easily / cheaply replaced - it is not a 2.5" drive. I'm sure third-party replacements will arrive later, but they will not be inexpensive (OWC makes replacement drives for the MBA but they are pricey).



Does not sound very pro friendly if they are making things like RAM hard to replace, or hard drives. I will have to check out prices and whats involved with upgrading the hard drive. Was hoping it would be as easy as the current MacBook Pro's.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

It looks like the 13" and 15" MBP (non Retina) still have a SuperDrive.


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## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

I tried to build a new MacBook Pro, the base 15 inch retina one, not even an option for upgrading the hard drive from the base 256 gig flash one to a larger one.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

It isn't easy and it's not user replaceable. No one will have prices yet because no one has opened the retina version up.

Get the non-retina version & upgrade that 



wonderings said:


> Does not sound very pro friendly if they are making things like RAM hard to replace, or hard drives. I will have to check out prices and whats involved with upgrading the hard drive. Was hoping it would be as easy as the current MacBook Pro's.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

wonderings said:


> Does not sound very pro friendly if they are making things like RAM hard to replace, or hard drives. I will have to check out prices and whats involved with upgrading the hard drive. Was hoping it would be as easy as the current MacBook Pro's.


You can still purchase the old design MacBook Pros if you don't need the retina display. Those still take 2.5" drives and regular SO-DIMM RAM chips.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

Why have the 2 versions of the MBP? just use the new design and make the retina display an option.

And why only the 13" with Retina? Just makes no sense. And even harder to choose which one you want.


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## Chimpur (May 1, 2009)

Joker Eh said:


> Why have the 2 versions of the MBP? just use the new design and make the retina display an option.


In some ways I think the new MBP should have just been called the Macbook.

I think Apple is letting the two lines of MBP's run together until they do the next refresh later on where they will bump the Retina MBP's cpu speeds and ssd/flash drive capacities. Then they will axe the traditional MBP with the Superdrive.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

wonderings said:


> I tried to build a new MacBook Pro, the base 15 inch retina one, not even an option for upgrading the hard drive from the base 256 gig flash one to a larger one.


You have to start with the 2.6 Ghz model to give you the choice to upgrade.


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## Chimpur (May 1, 2009)

How are you guys getting to the online store? Im still getting the whole brb note.


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## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

Chimpur said:


> How are you guys getting to the online store? Im still getting the whole brb note.


sometimes I get in by looking at the front page macbook pro add, but it usually ends up on the american site, its hit and miss


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

Wow. With Apple Care I got the new retina model up to $3848, Yikes.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Apple Store US is officially online, Canada still BRB.

SDXC cards are available in 128GB capacities now and I'm sure they'll push 256/512 in the near future.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

Nevermind.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Still not working. I thought it was at first but then I saw MacBook Air was just $999. It's increased to $1029 in Canada.

Edit: haha.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Hey the *Mac Pro did get updated*. It just wasn't announced during the Keynote.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

dona83 said:


> Hey the *Mac Pro did get updated*. It just wasn't announced during the Keynote.


Hasn't that "New" icon always been there?

Also the Airport Express is new.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

dona83 said:


> Hey the *Mac Pro did get updated*. It just wasn't announced during the Keynote.


Barely. Slightly faster processors and nothing else, including TB and USB 3.0.

Apple Offers Minor Processor Bump to Mac Pro Line, No Thunderbolt - MacRumors.com.


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## Chimpur (May 1, 2009)

Thats kinda a halfbaked "update" to the Mac Pro. Not even a better video card...


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

MacDoc said:


> no ethernet, no Firewire, no 34 cardslot..... hmmmmm


Yeah, I see they're expecting you to pay for a thunderbolt/ethernet and/or a thunderbolt/firewire adapter. They should at least include the thunderbolt/ethernet adapter.

Then again, why couldn't they keep at least the ethernet port. Firewire is more likely to be replaced by thunderbolt, and until it is I could live with an adapter for that.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

Kosh said:


> Then again, why couldn't they keep at least the ethernet port.


Actually, I guess no ethernet port makes sense. Most of us use wireless 90% of the time.


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## Chimpur (May 1, 2009)

Plus How big is an ethernet port and its packaging? If I look on my MBP I can see that the aluminum above the ethernet port is very thin. I don't think an ethernet port would fit on the Retina equipped MBP very well. It would be a weak point in the case I think.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Lars said:


> Barely. Slightly faster processors and nothing else, including TB and USB 3.0.
> 
> Apple Offers Minor Processor Bump to Mac Pro Line, No Thunderbolt - MacRumors.com.


Actually, no TB and no USB 3.0.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

dona83 said:


> Actually, no TB and no USB 3.0.


That's what I said.


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## andreww (Nov 20, 2002)

Kosh said:


> Actually, I guess no ethernet port makes sense. Most of us use wireless 90% of the time.


Most corporate environments don't have wireless as it is less secure and less efficient. Not having an ethernet port would make it useless to me for nine hours a day.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

We have company Wifi available but it's unreliable.

It's $29 for the TB Gigabit Ethernet adapter, not a huge expense. USB Ethernet adapter is still available, also $29.



Lars said:


> That's what I said.


Misinterpreted.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Will be interesting to see how people accept a $2200 Air.

Have one trade up on the go from 13" to a retina 15"

At least there are still matte 15s in the line up.

I think the annoyance will be the number of dongles to get lost.


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## MACinist (Nov 17, 2003)

MacDoc said:


> Will be interesting to see how people accept a $2200 Air.
> 
> Have one trade up on the go from 13" to a retina 15"
> 
> ...


I'll let you know...just ordered one. 

However, the thinness of the Retina and lack of SuperDrive does not define it as an "$2200 Air" to me. It still has the computing, graphic horsepower and more ports then the regular MBPro (includes HDMI... which is shocking to me considering the history with Jobs). The RMBP just replaced the 17" in price point and form factor with more screen real estate (pixel wise). 

I'm justifying the purchase as I don't use optical drives anymore and I'm gonna sell my ThunderBolt Display to fund a portion of it. I really hope it's new vent system is quieter then current MBP under heavy load. Sticking to the base model as the Apple tax on the upgraded ram and hdd is a bit steep for me.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

The retina display sounds nice, but I'm really more excited about the IPS display. Finally.

8GB of RAM oughta be enough.  You must post a new thread when you get it!!!


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

Any educated guesses if this "refresh" will impact refurb pricing/availability and how?


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

krs said:


> Any educated guesses if this "refresh" will impact refurb pricing/availability and how?


There's already updated refurb pricing in the online store. I bet refurb availability will be better in the next week or so as Apple often sells "new" but last-gen as "refurb" to clear old stock.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

The MacBook Air refurb I got for my wife was $829 now $789, prices of brand new has gone up by $30 across the MBA and MBP line.

The HD4000 integrated graphics is a significant upgrade though, whereas the old HD3000 performed maybe 90% as well as the NVidia GT320 it replaced, the HD4000 performs about 140% as well as the GT320.


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## minnes (Aug 15, 2001)

The Air updates looks solid, the MBP updates look like a little more than a speedbump.
The MacPro update is rally outraging those that were thinking of buying a new Pro, no cutting edge GPU, no USB 3, No Thunderbolt. If Apple wants to kill the Pro and strangle Thunderbolt, then mission accomplished.
I was also hoping for an iMac update now over a year since the last rev.


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

minnes said:


> The Air updates looks solid, the MBP updates look like a little more than a speedbump.
> The MacPro update is rally outraging those that were thinking of buying a new Pro, no cutting edge GPU, no USB 3, No Thunderbolt. If Apple wants to kill the Pro and strangle Thunderbolt, then mission accomplished.
> I was also hoping for an iMac update now over a year since the last rev.


Air Update expected.

MBP Spec bumps are for people who want standard laptops. The 13" MBP is at least 40% of Apple's sales of Laptops. They need it around for people still.

Notice that the 17" MBP is dead now too...

The Retina MBP is the future. But they're putting it out for people to try it now.

MacPro was a "pity" update, IMHO. Apple needed to get something new in those machines w/o devoting too many resources to it. It's sad, but Apple's killing off the "Pro" lineup.

iMac and MacMini are no brainers. But today was all about laptops. I would be surprised if we _don't_ see new iMacs and MacMinis when Mountain Lion comes out in the next 4-6 weeks.


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## minnes (Aug 15, 2001)

i would agree the 17 laptop market is likely dying off.
iMac and Mini updates might just get scant press mention.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

i like the new smart covers. l always thought it was stupid that apple would be so vain as to not provide adequate protection for the devices just in order to show them off..


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## dwp (Aug 12, 2003)

A very cautious and calculated upgrade on the part of Apple. 

The RMBP replaces the 17" very nicely. The other 15" and the 13's remain roughly the same with minor bumps. The Mac Pros a slight nudge and the MBA's a nice knock up... far enough up from the iPad but not too far into the range of the 13" MBP's.

Nice, nice, nice. The shape of things to come...

Well done.


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## greensuperman32 (Mar 28, 2005)

Looks like one of the other unannounced product releases today is the iPad Smart Case.

iPad Smart Case - Polyurethane - Dark Gray - Apple Store (Canada)


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> The RMBP replaces the 17" very nicely.


we'll see about that aspect. Not convinced.
When one of my video pro clients pulls the trigger I'll let you know.

When I see resolution independence in the OS maybe I'll reconsider.

One thing in a iPad - quite another in an OS


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

Ordered a 15" Retina 2.3Ghz stock model after work today and it says "Delivers 28 Jun - 4 Jul". Yeesh. 

I also checked at Eaton Centre Apple Store and they have nothing new in stock. The older model Airs were repriced lower "clearance". 11" started at $929 vs $999 before.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

I take it the 15-inch MacBook pro with the retina display lost the optical drive while I wasn't looking?

That must create confusion in the market place.

In my mind, the optical drive was always a very basic, noticeable differentiator between the MacBook pro and the MacBook Air.


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## JAMG (Apr 1, 2003)

Well, I've never cared for laptops, and the Mac Pro's have been too expensive for what they are...
iMacs are now my go to Macs, but Apple announcements lately, have been more about what is taken away than what is introduced.
I don't know what I was hoping for, and I didn't see it today...

Meh... (Not disappointed, just nothing for me today.)


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## Mr.Tickles (Mar 25, 2009)

They killed the 17"? Lame. Now I have to buy a windows computer if I want a desktop replacement, I guess.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

$2229 for the base 15" MacBook Pro with retina display.

- $200 with an educational discount (I qualify)

and a $100 iTunes gift card under the back to school program.

Okay then.


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

Mr.Tickles said:


> They killed the 17"? Lame. Now I have to buy a windows computer if I want a desktop replacement, I guess.


Why not the 15" retina? 2880-by-1800 vs. 1920 by 1200. Or do you just want BIG BIG BIG...? 

The Display is better, pushes more pixels, 2 thunderbolts, processor is the same if not better (slightly lower freq. but newer generation will be a wash) and the graphics card is better. What's not to like?



HowEver said:


> $2229 for the base 15" MacBook Pro with retina display.
> 
> - $200 with an educational discount (I qualify)
> 
> ...


Yep, I'm in the same boat. So that made the purchase that much easier to bear.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

HowEver said:


> $2229 for the base 15" MacBook Pro with retina display.
> 
> - $200 with an educational discount (I qualify)
> 
> ...


Hmm forgot about that


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> The Display is better, pushes more pixels,


The display is better but unless you have an app that can use it it won't really pay off until we get resolution independence and I did not see any mention of it in ML

I think the configurable units with hi-rez matte are better value.

I do like the pricing on the 3.33 core MacPro -


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

The extra pixels are made to make everything sharper, not display more info. But, It is possible to change the DPI setting right?


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## Dr_AL (Apr 29, 2007)

The apple store is showing a new logo next to the Mac pro...


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## cap10subtext (Oct 13, 2005)

That is the first 15" I've ever considered owning. Twin thunderbolt, USB 3 and HDMI (no more adapter?????) and THIN, gorgeously, thin.

Man, and the Airs are finally worth looking at with 512GB ssd and USB3. It's actually a tough call.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

dona83 said:


> The extra pixels are made to make everything sharper....


I don't see how unless the application is rewritten to take that higher pixel density into account.

This sounds to me the Mac now needs to scale up and interpolate pixel information that doesn't exist.

Maybe I need to read up on this more.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

cap10subtext said:


> That is the first 15" I've ever considered owning. Twin thunderbolt, USB 3 and HDMI (no more adapter?????) and THIN, gorgeously, thin.
> 
> Man, and the Airs are finally worth looking at with 512GB ssd and USB3. It's actually a tough call.


It is a tough call.

15" MBP w/Retina base model 256GB SSD with education discount plus $100 app store credit $2029. 

versus 

13" MBA with 512 GB SSD, 8GB Memory and $100 App store credit $2019.

It makes it a tough call for me.


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## Mac_100x (Mar 12, 2010)

The new MBP does look really awesome! BTW has anyone noticed the new Airport Express? Is there any major difference about this one, compared to the older one? Or is it only a design change?..


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

Mac_100x said:


> The new MBP does look really awesome! BTW has anyone noticed the new Airport Express? Is there any major difference about this one, compared to the older one? Or is it only a design change?..


It has an extra ethernet port so a single computer can be hard wired. And it resembles a white AppleTV.


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## Chimpur (May 1, 2009)

Mac_100x said:


> The new MBP does look really awesome! BTW has anyone noticed the new Airport Express? Is there any major difference about this one, compared to the older one? Or is it only a design change?..


It also has the dual band wifi n now as well.


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## SilverMaple (Apr 22, 2006)

HowEver said:


> $2229 for the base 15" MacBook Pro with retina display.
> 
> - $200 with an educational discount (I qualify)
> 
> ...


I'm in too. 

I have a MBP from 2006 and it's definitely time for an upgrade.


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## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

I am going to be upgrading my MacBook Pro and I thought I would go with whatever they released yesterday, but the lack of options for upgrading the hard drive or ram just dont do it for me, and does not feel like it would be something "pros" would want, that upgrade limitation.

So I am comparing the none retina MacBook Pro, the top end 15 inch, compared to the base Retina. Specs are identical save the non retina has a few more ghz. Are they the same processors though? Bothing using the new intel, or is one using the older i7 processors?


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Um same processors between the regular and Retina 15", same speeds, all use the latest gen Ivy Bridge processors.

And of note... eek: I had to scale it down, the original dialogue box almost filled my entire 1366x768 screen)

AnandTech - Gallery - Apple MacBook Pro with Retina Display: Scaling - 5 Photos


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

If it's not user upgradeable as far as hard drives go, it's not an option for me, not after spending plenty of bucks on 2 SSD's. Any upgrading will have to be any MBP but the RMBP.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

> The Display is better,


it might look sharper but unless you can tweak the rez you're still only getting the same useable desktop as a 1440x900 15" macbook pro which is, to me anyway, completely useless.


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## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

csonni said:


> If it's not user upgradeable as far as hard drives go, it's not an option for me, not after spending plenty of bucks on 2 SSD's. Any upgrading will have to be any MBP but the RMBP.


That is ruling out the new RMBP for me as well. Not sure why they are going a route where it takes options away, especially with basic things like hard drive and ram.


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

krs said:


> I don't see how unless the application is rewritten to take that higher pixel density into account.
> 
> This sounds to me the Mac now needs to scale up and interpolate pixel information that doesn't exist.
> 
> Maybe I need to read up on this more.


During the Keynote they mentioned that Non-Retina optimized Apps will be Pixel Doubled by the OS. I dunno if they will make them look decent, or bearable,or what...


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

It doesn't look like the RAM is user replaceable on the RMBP but the base model jumps from 8GB to 16GB for $200, which is not the usual Apple premium!


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## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

HowEver said:


> It doesn't look like the RAM is user replaceable on the RMBP but the base model jumps from 8GB to 16GB for $200, which is not the usual Apple premium!


Not a bad price compared to what Apple normally charges, but a hassle as you have to get Apple to do it, and cant just open it up and swap ram or hard drive in like 10 mins.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

broad said:


> it might look sharper but unless you can tweak the rez you're still only getting the same useable desktop as a 1440x900 15" macbook pro which is, to me anyway, completely useless.


Did you not read a few posts back? Click on the link, it very well is adjustable.




dona83 said:


> And of note... eek: I had to scale it down, the original dialogue box almost filled my entire 1366x768 screen)
> 
> AnandTech - Gallery - Apple MacBook Pro with Retina Display: Scaling - 5 Photos


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Can't say as I am impressed at all with any of the updates, typical Apple they giveth and they taketh away give USB 3.0 but take away gigabit ethernet unless you want to buy an adapter and take up a TB port... totally lame.

Saying the Mac Pro is new is a complete joke, an insult really... just processor upgrades does not make it new, they have silently upgraded the CPUs in the past...

The pricing is crazy on the retina models of the MBP... Really really disappointed overall.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

dona83 said:


> Did you not read a few posts back? Click on the link, it very well is adjustable.


i had page 2 of the thread loaded on my iPad since last night..i replied to what appeared to be the last post

guess i should borrow your helmet?


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

wow just checked those pics. this is huge. can't believe it took them until fricking 2012, but its a welcome arrival nonetheless


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## dwp (Aug 12, 2003)

screature said:


> Can't say as I am impressed at all with any of the updates, typical Apple they giveth and they taketh away give USB 3.0 but take away gigabit ethernet unless you want to buy an adapter and take up a TB port... totally lame.
> 
> Saying the Mac Pro is new is a complete joke, an insult really just processor upgrades goes not make it new, they have silently upgrade the CPUs in the past...
> 
> The pricing is crazy on the retina models of the MBP... Really really disappointed overall.


I see your point, but the ethernet ports remain in the desktop models and the non-retina MBP's. I guess Apple's studies have shown that laptop users rarely use their ethernet ports. And with MBA available for as long as they have been I guess they have the data to back their decision.

Regarding the Mac Pro I don't know what Apple could have possibly done to make an amazing powerhouse even more powerful without putting it so far out of the price point that it would scare potential customers away. The Mac Pro is priced so that those wishing to upgrade can do so to their wallets content.

This is a gradual change... like turning the Queen Mary... slow and cautious. If Apple had revamped the whole MBP lineup eliminating optical drives and ethernet ports it would have devastated the MBP line wiping out sales for a hugely successful sku.

Prudent change the way I see it.

But you do have a point on pricing, but next year it'll be much cheaper.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

dwp said:


> I see your point, but the ethernet ports remain in the desktop models and the non-retina MBP's. *I guess Apple's studies have shown that laptop users rarely use their ethernet ports*. And with MBA available for as long as they have been I guess they have the data to back their decision.
> 
> *Regarding the Mac Pro I don't know what Apple could have possibly done* to make an amazing powerhouse even more powerful without putting it so far out of the price point that it would scare potential customers away. The Mac Pro is priced so that those wishing to upgrade can do so to their wallets content.
> 
> ...


A couple of bucks to keep gigabit ethernet on board even if they have numbers that say less people are using it on the MBP? Anyone on a NAS appreciates gigabit ethernet it really isn't about how you connect to the internet as Wifi these days is generally plenty fast enough... there is a bigger picture and it is just further dumbing down (hardware wise) of Macs AFAIAC.

As for the Mac Pro... this: New MacPro looks good if this is true


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

screature, size? You can't fit a ethernet port on that little bezel. The fact that the Thunderbolt port is being used is not an issue, you are either going to connect the adapter to it, or maybe a hard drive and then daisy chain the adapter on, or the 27" Thunderbolt Display with built in Gigabit Ethernet or some sort of hub. Just food for thought. Of course there are downsides, if one has a plain DisplayPort display, they're out of luck. 



broad said:


> wow just checked those pics. this is huge. can't believe it took them until fricking 2012, but its a welcome arrival nonetheless


Yup, that fancy screen has turned from something nice to something nice and functional.

Sorry didn't mean to sound insinuating, I realized you may have already been responding or what not when you started. I know of one board, autos.ca/forum, that warns people that newer responses have been posted.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

dona83 said:


> *screature, size? You can't fit a ethernet port on that little bezel. *The fact that the Thunderbolt port is being used is not an issue, you are either going to connect the adapter to it, or maybe a hard drive and then daisy chain the adapter on, or the 27" Thunderbolt Display with built in Gigabit Ethernet or some sort of hub. Just food for thought. Of course there are downsides, if one has a plain DisplayPort display, they're out of luck...


How thin does it need to be? There is already the MBA if you want thin and yes it is an issue with the TB port being used if you want to run two non TB monitors off of the MBP.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

dona83 said:


> Did you not read a few posts back? Click on the link, it very well is adjustable.


Display resolutions on Macs have always been adjustable.
What normally happens is that one drives the display at its native resolution since that provides the best picture quality.
The highest resolution one can use has always been (well mostly anyway) equal to the native resolution of the display, scaling is done from that to a lower resolution on the Mac but the inherent resolution of the display itself obviously doesn't change.
So now instead of mapping pixel information pixel by pixel the Mac needs to map the pixel information of a smaller number of pixels to the display - result is that text is larger but not as crisp as if one used the native display setting on the Mac.

With the retina display the opposite happens, the display itself is a 2880 x 1800 display but the applications are written as if the display was1680 x 1050 for instance - depends on the Mac model.
So now the Mac needs to upscale the display resolution that the application is designed for to drive the 2880 x 1800 display..
Question was how well does that work.
I didn't realize until I looked at some of the MacBook pro specs that some MBp's have a 1440 x 900 native resolutions, so for applications that are designed to drive that resolution, upscaling is straight forward and I would expect the clarity with the retina display to be no worse (but also not any better) than with the regular 1440 x 900 MBp.
Scaling to lower resolutions is probably better since one has more selection as to which pixels to drive.

There are a number of other parameters that affect how a display is perceived by the human eye, those have been improved with the retina display and that is a factor.
In addition, although the retina display is still a glossy display, the gloss level has been reduced by 75% (that's what I read) - that will also make a difference.


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## JCCanuck (Apr 17, 2005)

screature said:


> Can't say as I am impressed at all with any of the updates, typical Apple they giveth and they taketh away give USB 3.0 but take away gigabit ethernet unless you want to buy an adapter and take up a TB port... totally lame.
> 
> Saying the Mac Pro is new is a complete joke, an insult really just processor upgrades goes not make it new, they have silently upgrade the CPUs in the past...
> 
> The pricing is crazy on the retina models of the MBP... Really really disappointed overall.


Yup! No way is my son who is going to McMaster next year for BIo-Chem gonna get the retina ones even though he's pitching in for the cost. Seriously going to convince him to get one of the 15" refurbs Macbook pros in a few weeks.


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## dwp (Aug 12, 2003)

Slim is the key point here with the new RMBP. They couldn't accommodate an ethernet port and make the laptop as thin as they wanted. But you do have two other models with the ethernet port with hi-rez screen. If Apple can save a 1.29 per RMBP by eliminating the ethernet port and have 50% of customers who buy the RMBP also buy the adaptor at $29... well you do the math. Also the MBA used to come with an USB to ethernet adaptor until Apple realized they could get $29 bucks a pop!

Again I see your point regarding the MP... it would have be nice to see Apple bump up the ram speed and include USB 3.0 and TB. There's not even an option that I can find to add Thunderbolt to the Mac Pro. So the exclusion of Thunderbolt is a big tip off in my mind where the Mac Pro line is headed.

You're right about the bigger picture. No argument from me on that point. I'd pinpoint the date around the time that wipe and swipe became popular.




screature said:


> A couple of bucks to keep gigabit ethernet on board even if they have numbers that say less people are using it on the MBP? Anyone on a NAS appreciates gigabit ethernet it really isn't about how you connect to the internet as Wifi these days is generally plenty fast enough... there is a bigger picture and it is just further dumbing down (hardware wise) of Macs AFAIAC.
> 
> As for the Mac Pro... this: New MacPro looks good if this is true


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## MACinist (Nov 17, 2003)

I switched my order last night to the new Air instead of the RMBP. However, knowing that it can scale to 1920x1200 in desktop real estate is making me regret my decision a bit. Additonally, the screen has really strong contrast (one of the best of any notebook) and glare is substantially reduced to near matte levels of old (as per AnandTech's review). Very intersting indeed and no wonder the 17" is disco'd. The one thing I was looking forward too was a more substantial reduction of weight. It's only about a pound less (4.5 vs 5.6lbs).... which is still a bit too heavy for me for a daily carry-around. 

However, iFixit did a teardown of the new Air and found that Apple changed the SSD connector to a newer gen, faster 500mb/s one - which is a bonus I wasn't expecting. And I will keep my Cinema Display with the Air instead of selling it with the RMBP.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

Apple has removed the "New" tag from the Mac Pro.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Joker Eh said:


> Apple has removed the "New" tag from the Mac Pro.


That's good... maybe it indicates that there is still something truly new coming... One can only hope.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

screature said:


> That's good... maybe it indicates that there is still something truly new coming... One can only hope.


There have been reports that iMac and Mac Pro will be updated in 2013. I don't know why the long wait.

I hope iOS6 fixes this notification system. I now have 3 apps that are send notifications to my lock screen and they are not in the notification list of enabled.


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

screature said:


> How thin does it need to be?


This is Apple we are talking about - it's never thin enough! Do you really expect Apple to move forward with creating new models and not attempt to make them thinner?



> There is already the MBA if you want thin and yes it is an issue with the TB port being used if you want to run two non TB monitors off of the MBP.


Uh, previous MBP's didn't have two Thunderbolt ports, so you are complaining that, now that it is possible to use two TB ports, it's not good because there isn't an Ethernet port?

I do want an Ethernet port, but I do not expect it to be in a MacBook Air or any new, thin MBPs. I will buy an adapter for the office if need be.... OR I will buy a model that DOES have them. 

This complaining really gets old. Apple releases some awesome products and people complain because it doesn't perfectly suit their specific needs. Or it doesn't fit some hypothetical need. It's funny, really.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Matrox DualHead2Go, about $220 though. 

Is Gigabit Ethernet that much faster than 10/100?


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

dona83 said:


> Matrox DualHead2Go, about $220 though.
> 
> *Is Gigabit Ethernet that much faster than 10/100*?


Yes


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

That seemed like a stupid question to ask lol. I mean in real life, say with the internet. I only have 20Mbps internet now, maybe when I upgrade to Broadband 50 or 100.


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

dona83 said:


> That seemed like a stupid question to ask lol. I mean in real life, say with the internet. I only have 20Mbps internet now, maybe when I upgrade to Broadband 50 or 100.


It's not as much of a deal with Internet, as it is with Intranet - when working with a network. I moved from a Condo pre-wired with Ethernet in every room, to an older, bigger one, but without ethernet. Big difference trying to transfer files between iMac and Laptop over 802.11n even vs. Gigabit Ethernet.


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## minnes (Aug 15, 2001)

I would say Gigabit ethernet is faster than Firewire 800, and outside of Thunderbolt, the fastest way to move files between two Macs.

And what the heck? No TB on new MacPros over a year later ....now they say another year for new iMacs as well... this is is daft!


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Ah, yea that's a pain, but it doesn't happen too often. 

The 2011 iMacs definitely have Thunderbolt as do the 2011 Mac Minis. The Mac Pro is the only machine in Apple's lineup that doesn't have Thunderbolt.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

Apple Spokesperson Confirms New Mac Pro and iMac Designs Likely Coming in 2013 - Mac Rumors


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## minnes (Aug 15, 2001)

So, is the Mac computer line overall, playing second fiddle, after-thought to the IOS devices?
If that is the case, then I feel a little sad.


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## Chimpur (May 1, 2009)

minnes said:


> So, is the Mac computer line overall, playing second fiddle, after-thought to the IOS devices?
> If that is the case, then I feel a little sad.


Sad but true. But Mr Dylan was right. "money doesn't talk, it swears"


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## minnes (Aug 15, 2001)

I know that I should not feel Apple owes us any kind of loyalty to keep the Mac line chugging along. But I do. And the IOS-ification of MacOS bothers me a little.
For instance, I could never see Android as a really functional desktop OS.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

okcomputer said:


> This is Apple we are talking about - it's never thin enough! Do you really expect Apple to move forward with creating new models and not attempt to make them thinner?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As consumers we have a right to complain, the fanboism get's old and tired equally fast... Apple can do no wrong for some it seems.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

dona83 said:


> Matrox DualHead2Go, about $220 though.
> 
> Is Gigabit Ethernet that much faster than 10/100?


Yes 1000bits/sec vs. 10/100bits/sec so 10X faster.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

dona83 said:


> That seemed like a stupid question to ask lol. I mean in real life, say with the internet. I only have 20Mbps internet now, maybe when I upgrade to Broadband 50 or 100.


Gigabit Ethernet is NOT about the internet it about having a networked environment for file sharing between computers. For the home user this generally means a NAS or computers with sharing permissions and a gigabit router (sometimes with a gigabit swithc as well as in my case) and I do it all the time.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

okcomputer said:


> This is Apple we are talking about - it's never thin enough! Do you really expect Apple to move forward with creating new models and not attempt to make them thinner?


I was just discussing this with some Mac buddies.

The consensus was it makes more sense from a user perspective to shave a few pounds off the laptops rather than reduce the thickness by another tenth of an inch.
What is needed is some new battery technology that is much lighter.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

dona83 said:


> The 2011 iMacs definitely have Thunderbolt as do the 2011 Mac Minis. The Mac Pro is the only machine in Apple's lineup that doesn't have Thunderbolt.


Sort of ironic don't you think?
The top of the line Mac doesn't have the latest interface technology, ie TB, but the bottom of the line up, the Mini does.
To me there is something wrong with htis picture.


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

screature said:


> As consumers we have a right to complain, the fanboism get's old and tired equally fast... Apple can do no wrong for some it seems.


You get to complain with your dollars. 

There's just as many people on these forums who believe Apple can do no right when it releases new hardware. Why weren't they able to release a thinner, lighter, MBP with retina display, ethernet, VGA, firewire, and a 15+ hour battery life.

These are the people that inspire pictures like this:


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## dwp (Aug 12, 2003)

krs said:


> Sort of ironic don't you think?
> The top of the line Mac doesn't have the latest interface technology, ie TB, but the bottom of the line up, the Mini does.
> To me there is something wrong with htis picture.


As I mentioned earlier in this thread this is a big indication of what Apple thinks about the Mac Pro. There's not even a Thunderbolt card for the Mac Pro! Right now as it stands you can't add Thunderbolt anything to the Mac Pro.
It's days are definitely numbered unless there's something spectacular coming next year.

I can see one base line Mac Pro (maybe two if you include mac Pro Server) with a myriad of upgrade options that can only be ordered on-line.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

fyrefly said:


> *You get to complain with your dollars.*
> 
> There's just as many people on these forums who believe Apple can do no right when it releases new hardware. Why weren't they able to release a thinner, lighter, MBP with retina display, ethernet, VGA, firewire, and a 15+ hour battery life.


We get to complain in any way we choose... this is a Mac Forum if we want to complain one way or the other it is part of the raison d'etre of the place and people who want to stifle people one way or the other are clearly missing the point of a forum. We aren't suppose to all think the same way and have the same opinion.


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

screature said:


> We get to complain in any way we choose... this is a Mac Forum if we want to complain one way or the other it is part of the raison d'etre of the place and people who want to stifle people one way or the other are clearly missing the point of a forum. We aren't suppose to all think the same way and have the same opinion.


Oh, I 100% agree. This forum is amazing 'cause it's full of lots of different opinions and viewpoints. I'm not trying to stifle anyone or anything.

What I am saying is that Apple isn't going to listen to this forum. They're going to listen to dollars. Unless you contact Apple with concerns, or start petitions, there's no way for anyone's concerns in this forum to affect Apple's product map unless people vote with their dollars.


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## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Since I've moved away from a desktop variation for my home computing needs, I must say I'm disappointed with the RMBP. And it all hinges on the non-user-upgradeable parts (RAM and HDD). If I had to upgrade right now, I'd go for the latest MBP, even though it was an ever-so-slight bump. That's my 10 cents.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Actually its faster than the retina units and a reasonable speed bump in the video card section.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> As I mentioned earlier in this thread this is a big indication of what Apple thinks about the Mac Pro. There's not even a Thunderbolt card for the Mac Pro! Right now as it stands you can't add Thunderbolt anything to the Mac Pro.
> It's days are definitely numbered unless there's something spectacular coming next year.


and what pray tell will Tbolt do for you except cost you money for stuff that already is served by eSATA?

He already announced MacPro update next year with faster RAM and processors. This minor bump brings prices to the point where people will finally start to trade out their 2.8 8 core.

a $3k 3.33 six core with ram being so cheap is a sweet machine and sub $4k 12 core. All good things for those sitting with earlier pros.


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

How is it still a retina display when the pixel density isn't nearly as much as the iPhone 4/4S (220ppi vs 326ppi)? What is the minimum pixel density required to be called a 'retina display'?


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Because people usually sit a minimum of 18" away from a computer screen, whereas a phone is held at about 12" away. In this case, the pixels look the same size. 

iPad is about 256 ppi?


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

hrmm... i sit pretty close sometimes. i'm sure it still looks amazing.. i was satisfied with the high-res display, so this will definitely be better. it would just be nice if they'd stick to a number and not include variables.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

MacDoc said:


> and what pray tell will Tbolt do for you except cost you money for stuff that already is served by eSATA?


eSATA was never supported by Apple.
All the eSATA interfaces for the Mac are third party "add-pns" as far as I know

Thunderbolt has been pushed by Apple as being the latest and the greatest --- that interface is included in every single Mac offered today except the MacPro.

Sorry MacDoc, but your comment "Who needs it if you can have eSATA" just doesn't cut it.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

fyrefly said:


> Oh, I 100% agree. This forum is amazing 'cause it's full of lots of different opinions and viewpoints. I'm not trying to stifle anyone or anything.
> 
> *What I am saying is that Apple isn't going to listen to this forum. They're going to listen to dollars. Unless you contact Apple with concerns, or start petitions, there's no way for anyone's concerns in this forum to affect Apple's product map unless people vote with their dollars.*


I totally agree Apple has their own roadmap and the consumer isn't going to change it because they "know best" and they aren't going to listen to the lowly consumer unless they are speaking with one voice in the millions. But we can still bitch about it among ourselves.


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

kloan said:


> hrmm... i sit pretty close sometimes. i'm sure it still looks amazing.. i was satisfied with the high-res display, so this will definitely be better. it would just be nice if they'd stick to a number and not include variables.


It's always going to be a variable, 'cause it's a mathematical equation that has the variable of how far you sit away from the screen. While that's not a constant to everyone (like you're saying some people sit closer or further) Apple bases "retina" on whether you can tell individual pixels based on a pre-determined distance from the screen.

According to Apple:
iPhone you hold closest, iPad a little further, and Computer even further.

Ultimately, Retina is a bit loosey-goosey anyway, mostly just a buzzword used by Apple Marketing...


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

fyrefly said:


> It's always going to be a variable, 'cause it's a mathematical equation that has the variable of how far you sit away from the screen. While that's not a constant to everyone (like you're saying some people sit closer or further) Apple bases "retina" on whether you can tell individual pixels based on a pre-determined distance from the screen.
> 
> According to Apple:
> iPhone you hold closest, iPad a little further, and Computer even further.
> ...


Kind of like Certs with "retsin."


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