# Will the 3g iPhone be hacked?



## satchmo (May 26, 2005)

Kind of pointless on one hand, but if data plans are through the roof, someone interested in using wi-fi only might be better off. Essentially have a 3g iPhone but acting like a hacked 1st gen iPhone.

If Apple sells the 3G iPhones in their stores but require you to activate it within 30 days with the licenced carrier, that be the window needed to unlock it. 

Not saying this will happen, but just bracing for the gouging data rate plans to come.


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## Mac-A-Rui (Apr 28, 2005)

My plan is to buy the phone from Apple store and activate just a voice plan with it. I hope that works out. I don't really need a data plan. Whenever I get wifi I'll use it, but there is no need for a data plan for me. I just need an ipod and phone and the iphone is cheaper and has gps. So the iphone fills my needs there!


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

I am with you guys...if I get an iPhone it will definitely be meeting my ZiPhone.


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## Details (Mar 28, 2008)

I'm just hoping that we'll be able to buy it from the Apple Store. As it looks right now, on the Apple.ca website, you can only buy it from Rogers.

That would be a shame, but then maybe we can hope against hope that Rogers will actually have some wondrous data plans... (we can hope, can't we?)


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## psxp (May 23, 2006)

Mac-A-Rui said:


> My plan is to buy the phone from Apple store and activate just a voice plan with it. I hope that works out. I don't really need a data plan. Whenever I get wifi I'll use it, but there is no need for a data plan for me. I just need an ipod and phone and the iphone is cheaper and has gps. So the iphone fills my needs there!


Will they allow voice only plans??


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## iphoneexcitor (Jan 20, 2008)

Mac-A-Rui said:


> My plan is to buy the phone from Apple store and activate just a voice plan with it. I hope that works out. I don't really need a data plan. Whenever I get wifi I'll use it, but there is no need for a data plan for me. I just need an ipod and phone and the iphone is cheaper and has gps. So the iphone fills my needs there!


you are so naive. iphone is a smartphone, when rogers sells an smart phone, they require you to sign up with a data plan, not just a voice plan. they won't sell it to you for $200 with just a cheap ass voice plan.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

iphoneexcitor said:


> you are so naive. iphone is a smartphone, when rogers sells an smart phone, they require you to sign up with a data plan, not just a voice plan. they won't sell it to you for $200 with just a cheap ass voice plan.


Right, that's why he said "Apple store." It is possible the iPhone 3G will be sold at Apple stores. I believe someone called the Sherway store and was told this would commence on July 11th. They could be wrong, or talking out of their hat, so we'll have to wait and see.


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## Mac-A-Rui (Apr 28, 2005)

HowEver said:


> Right, that's why he said "Apple store." It is possible the iPhone 3G will be sold at Apple stores. I believe someone called the Sherway store and was told this would commence on July 11th. They could be wrong, or talking out of their hat, so we'll have to wait and see.


I also believe However pointed out that they will be available at the Apple stores in the states. Apple.com advertises it as being available in Apple stores in the US. I live 40 mins from an Apple store in the US. I'll just make the trip over there and nab one if they don't offer them in Canada Apple stores! You also have e-bay!!! lol



psxp said:


> Will they allow voice only plans??


I don't know, I hope so. I'm sure if I give them my sim card they'll put a voice plan on it..or if I bring the phone to a Rogers dealer I'm sure they program it. I don't see why not. My gf and her mom are on a family plan with rogers and they want me to join it so I was thinking of joining it with an iphone  We'll see how it goes. It's only speculation right now.


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

I have a feeling Apple is wearing the pants in this deal. I would be surpirsed if they were not sold at <apple stores.


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## Gene Rayburn (Jun 30, 2007)

I'm sure there will be unlocking programs developed (it may take even longer to get them going however than last time) but there won't be the resale market there was with the old device. Remember, if you don't activate after 30 days you gotta start paying penalties, so AT&T/Rogers/etc will get their money in any case. 

The unlocking programs will most likely just benefit those who travel the globe and use multiple SIMs.


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## Mac-A-Rui (Apr 28, 2005)

Gene Rayburn said:


> I'm sure there will be unlocking programs developed (it may take even longer to get them going however than last time) but there won't be the resale market there was with the old device. Remember, if you don't activate after 30 days you gotta start paying penalties, so AT&T/Rogers/etc will get their money in any case.
> 
> The unlocking programs will most likely just benefit those who travel the globe and use multiple SIMs.


I'm curious, you said if you don't activate after 30 days you gotta start paying penalties? Where did you hear this from?


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## Flipstar (Nov 7, 2004)

Mac-A-Rui said:


> I'm curious, you said if you don't activate after 30 days you gotta start paying penalties? Where did you hear this from?


AT&T said they will be doing that. I'd imagine it will trickle down to Rogers & Fido as well.


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## Gene Rayburn (Jun 30, 2007)

I think Rogers & Fido would be more than willing to implement something which leads to them making more money


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## NV_GCK (Jun 11, 2008)

iphoneexcitor said:


> you are so naive. iphone is a smartphone, when rogers sells an smart phone, they require you to sign up with a data plan, not just a voice plan. they won't sell it to you for $200 with just a cheap ass voice plan.


Actually, I recently purchased a blackberry Curve sans data plan. The iphone 3G may initially require a data plan but eventually once Rogers sells enough that requirement should go.


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## darrenlovesmac (Apr 29, 2008)

With the need to go through the new _.me_ program, and it sounds like EVERY time the phone is synced (sunk?) to the computer it will hook up to the .me service. Will that service have to be hacked around? Will it be possible to hack around that service. As it is, every firmware and iTunes update seems to brick the phones until they are broken out again. 

I hopefully will just buy the 3G iPhone from Rogers, with a data plan, and do the same thing I have done now. Disable the data by changing the last letter of the .com (drop the m), thus disabling the EDGE. This way I am in control of the data entirely with WiFi or I reset the EDGE when needed. 

Darren


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

If any of you think that Apple will not be selling iPhones in their corporate stores up here, you are ... seriously ... smoking the crack.

The iPhone is one of major DRAWS of an Apple Store. There is absolutely positively zero chance of an Apple Store in any country anywhere not carrying the iPhone.


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## darrenlovesmac (Apr 29, 2008)

With the new .me program, and the apparent need for a phone to go through that service, will it be possible at all to hack a new iPhone?


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## arnab (May 27, 2008)

this is going to be an anti-apple propaganda by microsoft and friends. people need to understand that.


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## darrenlovesmac (Apr 29, 2008)

arnab said:


> this is going to be an anti-apple propaganda by microsoft and friends. people need to understand that.


So the new .me program is a Microsoft propaganda "take-over" of the dot mac service? Did I follow this correctly?

Darren


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## satchmo (May 26, 2005)

Gene Rayburn said:


> Remember, if you don't activate after 30 days you gotta start paying penalties, so AT&T/Rogers/etc will get their money in any case.


Of course they can't very well charge you anything if it's purchased through an Apple Retail store.  

And yes, it was me who called the Sherway store. I can only go by what the lady there telling me definitively that they were going to sell it in the store.

It would be a great loophole, but Apple must be keenly aware of it. But perhaps their sole interest is sales and will look the other way.


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## Visnaut (Jul 22, 2004)

Will it be hacked? Eventually, without a doubt.

But as Gene pointed out, it will likely take a little bit longer. Apple has certainly improved the security of the device, learning from the methods that hackers have used thus far. So a whole new approach will be needed.

Secondly, the biggest motivator for unlocking the device for the longest time came from hackers who simply couldn't purchase and use one in their country of residence. It's quite likely that with availability announced in over 70 countries, the pool of dedicated hackers will shrink significantly, especially if deals in China and Russia go through.


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## iandesign (Jul 17, 2004)

*It's already been hacked!*

I'm pretty sure I read back in March or whenever it was that the 2.0 software was hacked about a week after the beta was released. Personally, I don't feel the need to hack the next one because you'll have more apps than you imagined in the store and most will be free.


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## bmovie (Jan 18, 2003)

Now correct me if i'm wrong...but I have read that it's selling in the US for $199 is that with a contract or is that just the price of the phone?

I have also read in the METRO that the pricing will be the same here. 

so being that, why would you need to buy into a plan? I mean if you just purchased this phone from rogers, cant you just use it as is with your current plan?

Or are they planning on selling it only to people that buy the data plan? That to me doesn't make sense.


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## viffer (Aug 29, 2007)

I have the first gen iphone and am using it on Rogers. I am very interested in upgrading to the 2.0 software - but will I be able to use it on Rogers? That is the real question in my mind. I've heard that employees will be fired if they active a first gen phone on Rogers....


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## machael (Apr 27, 2008)

bmovie said:


> Now correct me if i'm wrong...but I have read that it's selling in the US for $199 is that with a contract or is that just the price of the phone?
> 
> I have also read in the METRO that the pricing will be the same here.
> 
> ...


It makes perfect sense. The cost of the phones includes the subsidized price. You are not buying just the iPhone 3G, you are purchasing a 3 year contract with Rogers or Fido along with a data plan because they are only sold that way.


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## keebler27 (Jan 5, 2007)

Mac-A-Rui said:


> My plan is to buy the phone from Apple store and activate just a voice plan with it. I hope that works out. I don't really need a data plan. Whenever I get wifi I'll use it, but there is no need for a data plan for me. I just need an ipod and phone and the iphone is cheaper and has gps. So the iphone fills my needs there!


good pt. wouldn't you need wifi to coordinate googlemaps with the gps or do you plan to use tom tom or something similar which maybe wouldn't need the wifi?


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## whatiwant (Feb 21, 2008)

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I believe I read somewhere that 199 and 299 were the subsidized prices of the two models on AT&T respectively. If they've already paid Apple a chunk of money to have the ability to sell the phones at a lower rate to end-users, this would mean the onus would be on AT&T to make sure phones which they've paid to be subsidized are activated, hence the penalty... 

I think I lost myself somewhere there. 

But I think my point was that it is going to be in Roger$ best interests to make sure that the phones are activated and don't make their way into some 'grey market' in another country that has more that one gsm carrier... 

It's going to be very interesting indeed come July 11. 

(oh and that guy I had a mild flame war with months ago, you were right. you're totally brilliant. i would worship you if I could)


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## zlinger (Aug 28, 2007)

Gene Rayburn said:


> I'm sure there will be unlocking programs developed (it may take even longer to get them going however than last time) but there won't be the resale market there was with the old device. Remember, if you don't activate after 30 days you gotta start paying penalties, so AT&T/Rogers/etc will get their money in any case.
> 
> The unlocking programs will most likely just benefit those who travel the globe and use multiple SIMs.


I was wondering about the unlock part. I must have the ability to pop in my T-Mobile SIM when I travel south, or when traveling in other countries. I also want to be able to load apps similar to the current iphone.


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## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

iphoneexcitor said:


> you are so naive. iphone is a smartphone, when rogers sells an smart phone, they require you to sign up with a data plan, not just a voice plan. they won't sell it to you for $200 with just a cheap ass voice plan.


There's no doubt about that. But like the original poster, I too want an iPhone without a data plan. The question is not how much (as I'm sure it would be more) but will Rogers sell the phone at all without a data plan.

I have a hardware upgrade credit on my wireless account, and I want to use it on the iPhone. I would pay $299 instead of $199, but beyond that I'd start looking at other phones.


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## jeepguy (Apr 4, 2008)

viffer said:


> I have the first gen iphone and am using it on Rogers. I am very interested in upgrading to the 2.0 software - but will I be able to use it on Rogers? That is the real question in my mind. I've heard that employees will be fired if they active a first gen phone on Rogers....


You already are on Rogers, the 2.0 software, is just that software. You are not activating a new phone you are just continuing your current service.


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## retrocactus (Jun 17, 2003)

If you guys think you'll be able to stroll up to an Apple Store (here or in the US) and buy an iPhone sans contract, think again.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

retrocactus said:


> If you guys think you'll be able to stroll up to an Apple Store (here or in the US) and buy an iPhone sans contract, think again.


Yes, really, think again.

You will be able to buy the iPhone 3G in Apple US stores for sure. It is as yet unconfirmed but entirely possible that you will be able to buy them in Apple Canada stores. The iPhone is too big a draw to pass up selling these in Apple stores.

Do you think that Apple employees will be trained to do Rogers' work and activate iPhones in store? I don't.


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## retrocactus (Jun 17, 2003)

HowEver said:


> Do you think that Apple employees will be trained to do Rogers' work and activate iPhones in store? I don't.


Actually I do...it's not like it's any more difficult than selling grandma an iMac. If not Apple employees, then AT&T/Rogers/Fido people instore. 

Again, its not hard to hire people for retail jobs.


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## satchmo (May 26, 2005)

I find this part troubling...

_Chris asks: Can these devices be purchased and given as gifts?

No. You will need to walk out of the AT&T or Apple store with the device activated._


So much for it being a big Christmas gift item. Or any gift at all unless the recipient is there in person to register it under their name. 
I think the key is where they haven't yet decided on an unsubsidized price. Although I can't see Apple allowing AT&T to set over inflated prices.


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## Mac-A-Rui (Apr 28, 2005)

Noticed in fine print on the Apple.com site this
*"Based on iPhone 3G (8GB) and first generation iPhone (8GB) purchases. Requires new 2 year AT&T rate plan, sold separately."*

Apple Retail Store

and on this page
Apple Store (U.S.) - iPhone 3G

If you scroll down and read the minimum requirements it states

* USB 2.0 port
* Mac OS X
v10.4.10 or later
* iTunes 7.7
or later
* Internet connection
(broadband recommended; fees may apply)
** AT&T service
(minimum two-year agreement)*
* Free iTunes Store account
(valid credit card required)

So it looks like we are SOL! Also if we didn't need to activate it, then it would be available online!!!


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

[edit ehMax Phrase removed - Please be a little more sensitive] So you couldn´t even go out to the Rogers store and pay full price sans contract for her eh?


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## TheBat (Feb 11, 2005)

*iTouch instead?*

Just wondering, for those who don't need a cell phone, will the iTouch do everything else that the new iPhone will do? (GPS, mail, calendar, etc). Seems to me it will. I'm surprised that not much has been said about the iTouch recently.


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## dmpP (Jun 1, 2004)

I believe that in the US, with the 3G, the plan is that people will be required to sign the contract before they leave the apple store. If data is required or not... I have no idea.


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## Flipstar (Nov 7, 2004)

TheBat said:


> Just wondering, for those who don't need a cell phone, will the iTouch do everything else that the new iPhone will do? (GPS, mail, calendar, etc). Seems to me it will. I'm surprised that not much has been said about the iTouch recently.


iTouch? I think you mean the iPod Touch. The iPod Touch already does mail and calendar. GPS? How are we supposed to know?

Everyone, please stop asking questions we can't answer! XX)


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## Corvillus (Nov 15, 2007)

Back to the original topic: Will the iPhone 3G be hacked?

Jailbroken...I'd say given that the beta of the 2.0 firmware has been out to developers for a while now, it probably already has been, and assuming that they didn't all report these finds to Apple, chances are good that it will be jailbroken the same way on the final release.

Unlocked...that's a whole different ballgame since it's a different radio and probably has very different firmware and as a result different security holes. This will probably also eventually happen, but the benefit is minimal, and will really only be useful to travellers. As has been said numerous times in the thread, home iTunes activation is a thing of the past, so there will be no more walk into the Apple store, walk out with an inactive phone, and jailbreak and SIM unlock it.

At the very least, you're going to be paying $200 iPhone base price + $175 ECF + $70 first month of service = $435 for at 8GB iPhone 3G from AT&T. And of course, you'd still have to be eligible to sign up for AT&T service to do this in the first place.

Do the same thing from Rogers / Fido and you're likely looking at $200 iPhone base price + $90? for both a data and voice plan compatible with it for the first month + $400 ECF + $100 DECF = $790 to get the phone without a contract.

Or $800+ to buy an unlocked in store one from overseas.

So...even if you are able to unlock it, why bother? Especially given that here in Canada, you'll end up on Rogers anyway. As for me, unless the iPhone data plan is large enough that I will not have to monitor usage...I'll probably stick with my unlocked 1st gen.


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## CaptainCode (Jun 4, 2006)

darrenlovesmac said:


> With the need to go through the new _.me_ program, and it sounds like EVERY time the phone is synced (sunk?) to the computer it will hook up to the .me service. Will that service have to be hacked around? Will it be possible to hack around that service. As it is, every firmware and iTunes update seems to brick the phones until they are broken out again.
> 
> I hopefully will just buy the 3G iPhone from Rogers, with a data plan, and do the same thing I have done now. Disable the data by changing the last letter of the .com (drop the m), thus disabling the EDGE. This way I am in control of the data entirely with WiFi or I reset the EDGE when needed.
> 
> Darren


You don't have to have MobileMe to use the new iPhone software, it's optional but makes mobile syncing and push email possible. 

The 2.0 beta software was cracked in this way:
iPhone 2.0(boot loader I think) requires the firmware to be cryptographically signed by Apple so if you change something in it then the software won't run because the signature won't match. Someone(s) figured out how to remove the bootloader and replace it with one that doesn't check if the firmware is signed. They originally said that it would be hard for Apple to stop them from doing this but with the 3G phone it is another story because the hardware is different. I'm sure though eventually someone will figure out how to do it. 

The penalties have to do with the fact that you buy it from AT&T for $199 or $299. They are taking an initial loss so if you don't activate it then of course they will begin penalizing you because they are losing money. 

No one really knows yet if the phone will be sold directly from Apple but I find it hard to believe that they'd restrict it to carriers only. If it ends up that here in North America you can only buy it through a carrier then some people will just end up importing it from another country where locking the phone is illegal. The only problem with that is if Rogers or Fido won't let you buy a plan without buying a phone through them.


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## CaptainCode (Jun 4, 2006)

Mac-A-Rui said:


> Noticed in fine print on the Apple.com site this
> *"Based on iPhone 3G (8GB) and first generation iPhone (8GB) purchases. Requires new 2 year AT&T rate plan, sold separately."*
> 
> Apple Retail Store
> ...


I don't know why you are basing anything that happens in Canada to what happens in the USA. Cell service here is vastly different and basically inferior but still no guarantees about anything at all.

I seem to recall that the iPhone 1.x.x said it required a contract with AT&T to work and yet you could still buy them elsewhere. Just because it says you need a contract to use it doesn't mean you can't buy it from Apple.


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## CaptainCode (Jun 4, 2006)

The current iPod Touch doesn't have GPS or a cellular radio so it can only do WiFi triangulation. Who knows though if the next one will have a GPS or not. If they do it like they did with the first one then the next iPod Touch will share most of the same hardware as the iPhone so it's entirely possible that it could have GPS. The only real issue is the cost and whether Apple wants to give it that feature because it might lead people to not buy an iPhone.


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## Mac-A-Rui (Apr 28, 2005)

CaptainCode said:


> I don't know why you are basing anything that happens in Canada to what happens in the USA.


Um cause I plan on buying the phone in the US since they have confirmed they will be available at the apple stores!


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## DBerG (May 24, 2005)

If it does happen that you have to register for a 2 or 3 year data plan with Rogers or Fido and cannot buy the phone unsubsidized in Canada, maybe we'll be able to get one in countries like France, where locking up the carrier to the device is illegal. Just speculating...


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## Shogun308 (Jun 24, 2008)

I am a Rogers subscriber so I will def get the iphone with a data plan. If after a couple of months and I don't see a need for it, I will just pay the $100 DECF to cancel the data portion and keep my voice plan. 

In terms of hacking and unlocking the 3G iphone...if I am travelling to the UK for example and I am allowed to pop out my rogers sim and replace it with a paygo O2 (carrier in the UK that sells the iphone) sim, then I don't see a need to unlock it. Otherwise, I will def. look to unlock it so that I can use it while I travel without incurring roaming fees!


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