# The War on Easter



## jasonwood (Oct 19, 2003)

We all remember the supposed "War on Christmas", but there was considerable debate over whether in fact that war even existed. 

Well, Brian Fleming of Beyond Belief Media has decided to make it clear this time around...



> April 11, 2006. Declaring War on Easter, Beyond Belief Media has launched a preemptive attack on the Christian holiday, the company announced today. "Operation Easter Sanity" has already begun.


There's more info at http://www.waroneaster.org including some interesting recordings of Brian on Christian radio stations, discussing the war.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

Wow. Lame assed. I didn't know atheists made it a full-time job to **** on other people's religion.


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## i<3myiBookg4 (Mar 17, 2006)

Lars said:


> Wow. Lame assed. I didn't know atheists made it a full-time job to **** on other people's religion.


Yeah really...


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## The Great Waka (Nov 26, 2002)

Something about the tone that this guy uses kinda gets at me. I don't like the way he's going about it. Hiding messages in eggs and DVDs in churches? How about promoting it in public places, like the guy downtown on the megaphone telling me that "Without Jesus you are nothing!". Man, now that's how to make a believer out of anyone! Sign me up!

"Imagine there's no heaven..."


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Is this serious? If so, one more militant-fundamentalist-evangelical atheist to ignore.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

These guys are a bunch of a$$clowns. I think people who take umbrage when someone wishes them a "Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year" rather than "Happy Holidays" need to lighten up, but these idiots are completely over the top.


> A total of 666 DVDs will be hidden like "Easter eggs" in sanctuaries, church yards and other holy areas by Beyond Belief Media's national team of volunteers. The DVDs will be slipped into hymnals and other locations where they are likely to be discovered by unsuspecting worshippers.


source: http://www.thegodmovie.com/press/releases/041106releaseEAST.html

What happened to celebrating diversity and respecting other people's beliefs?

I'm all for freedom of speech, so let them have their website (even if it *does* seem to promote hatred...), but this seems to be the equivalent of going into a mosque and posting the infamous "Mohammed cartoons".


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## i<3myiBookg4 (Mar 17, 2006)

I'm with PenguinBoy... ^

I am a Christian but I don't go around forcing people to take on my beliefs...


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

ummmmm perhaps you should recognise well deserved send ups when they arise

Here's a good start point
http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html

Lots' more where that one surfaced from

http://skeptically.org/christianity/id2.html

http://www.angelfire.com/pa/greywlf/mxl.html

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0702/wiccans.html












> Wiccan Hunting Permit
> Attention church members: These permit stickers are also available in the church lobby. You are required to display them on the lower rear driver-side window of your SUV. Thanks, and happy


Parodies or real.....hard to tell 

This isn't tho



> Counting Sheep?
> 
> The proselytizing zeal of American missionaries knows no slack even in tsunami aid
> 
> ...


http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=5190

The site is a mockery of the kind of nonsense promulgated by far too many "fundies".



> The reason for the challenges to the Harry Potter books centre round their focus on wizardry and magic. Fundamentalist Christians claim the series is subversive, because wizardry is incompatible with Christian belief. According to them, it is presenting witchcraft in an attractive light and desensitising young people to its dangers. They are hostile because in their opinion Rowling has a false world view, that is, she does not write from the standpoint of Christian ethics.
> 
> Puritanical attacks in which the perceived danger is fantasy fiction such as Harry Potter represent a shift by the fundamentalists. Previously, most of the children's book censorship cases targeted realistic works and concerned references to sex , the body or swearing. A sustained offensive has been carried out in school censorship issues by well-organised right fundamentalist organisations such as Eagle Forum, Concerned Women for America, Focus on the Family, Family Research Council, the American Family Association and Citizens for Excellence in Education.
> 
> ...


http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/aug2000/pott-a05.shtml

Still think the parody is so far off the mark????????


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## i<3myiBookg4 (Mar 17, 2006)

Don't want to get into an argument, but just because some Christians are ignorant, doesn't mean I am.


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## SoyMac (Apr 16, 2005)

Lars said:


> Wow. Lame assed. I didn't know atheists made it a full-time job to **** on other people's religion.





i<3myiBookg4 said:


> Yeah really...





i<3myiBookg4 said:


> Don't want to get into an argument, but just because some Christians are ignorant, doesn't mean I am.


So just because you consider some atheists ignorant, it means that all are?
*Note - Lars doesn't say "_some_ atheists". He says "... atheists made it a full-time job to **** on other people's religion."
You posted you're agreement with Lars' general broadside against atheists, and then you complain because you feel lumped in with "ignorant" Christians.
See how easy it is to start arguments over religion? Whew!


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

My point is the site in question is a well deserved send up and SoyMac has it right.
Certain responses to certain cartoons come to mind.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Intolerance from any end of the spectrum is ugly. A war on intolerance, now there's a war worth fighting for. 

Cheers to diversity. I hope everyone is having a nice day.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

I think Patti Smith (the singer) had it right, in her intro to "Gloria," was it:
"Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine."

I have no use for businesses that tolerate the intolerance of wishing everybody a "Merry Christmas." But I'll never get upset about it. It's their right, too, after all, and they are free to say that or say "Go to Hell" to everybody that buys a chimichanga or a chewtoy or a Bible or a bullet. Mostly though it's just people trying to be nice, ignorant as they are about being in a multicultural society.

On a slow news day, or perhaps on Good Friday, the persecution of the dominant religion by itself makes for an interesting read or video clip. You saw more of it, of course, when the U.S. needed to foment a little more intolerance than usual five years ago or so. I hope this doesn't mean they are going Ayatollah-slaying.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

HowEver said:


> I have no use for businesses that tolerate the intolerance of wishing everybody a "Merry Christmas." But I'll never get upset about it.


Wishing everybody a Merry Christmas is intolerant? Wow.


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## jasonwood (Oct 19, 2003)

ehMax said:


> Intolerance from any end of the spectrum is ugly. A war on intolerance, now there's a war worth fighting for.


That certainly has great appeal. The question is, could it work? Sam Harris argues for exactly the opposite, that a level intolerance is desperately needed.



> Most people think that while religious extremism is problematic and polarizing, religious tolerance is entirely blameless and is the remedy for all that ails us on this front. But religious moderates are giving cover to fundamentalists because of the respect that moderates demand of faith-based talk. Religious moderation doesn’t allow us to say the really critical things we must say about the abject stupidity of religious fundamentalism. And as a result, it keeps fundamentalism in play, and fundamentalists make very cynical and artful use of the cover they’re getting by the political correctness in our discourse.


Excerpt from a recent interview (worth reading): http://www.truthdig.com/interview/item/20060403_sam_harris_interview/

You need to be clear about what "intolerance" is, and where you draw the line. I don't think any rational being would argue that beliefs should be regulated, for example! I don't care if someone believes the world is flat, but I'm going to laugh at that person. That's a level of intolerance that is perfectly acceptable in our society. When the claim involves a deity, it seems what we view as acceptable changes vastly. I don't know how to explain that. It seems logical that regardless of whether a claim is religious in nature, "We should be fundamentally hostile to claims to certainty that are not backed up by evidence and argument." (same source as above)


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> Wishing everybody a Merry Christmas is intolerant?


no just insensitive. Akin to asking every man how his wife is or every woman how the kids are.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Positive wishes are a little different and they are just that: positive.
Happy Festivus.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Then say happy holiday - what you seem not to get is associations are not the same for all and if you don't KNOW then tread lightly.

Is Merry Bacchanalia neutral.

Merry Baal. Happy St. Lucifers......Joyous King Billy's day??

Try the last one in certain quarters in Dublin a while back and you might get knee capped.

Stick with the wishes, skip the possessive.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

Uhhhh... Happy Easter!!!

(ducks for cover under the bed)


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

MacDoc said:


> Then say happy holiday


Say what you want with positive sentiments and be big enough to accept positive sentiments from others, even if they're from a different religion or lack of one; remove chip from shoulder and enter the great wide open. Because we are all different, the solution isn't to act within the desires of the most sensitive and intolerant (including militant atheists) who have various axes to grind and complain as a hobby; act and react positively, not with suspicion and personal insecurity about every little perceived slight in a world that maybe, just maybe, doesn't revolve around anyone. Tolerance -- dare to tolerate people saying Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah and all sorts of other diverse positive sentiments instead of just a monochromatic committee-approved statement -- there's room for many sayings. It's difficult for some, but it's worth it. Do you 'get' the hugs yet? :love2:


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Beej said:


> Wishing everybody a Merry Christmas is intolerant? Wow.


Suppose you are a Hindu or a Sikh or a Muslim or Jewish or an atheist or one of the scores of other religions that do not practise Christianity, but you are a respectful person who realizes that you too live in a multicultural society. You may look different from many Christians; you may look like anybody else in a room full of priests or nuns.

Now, in December, sometimes even starting in November, most of the places where you shop or bank or visit are wishing you a Merry Christmas. Precious few make the effort to wish you a happy anything else. They want to wish on you what they celebrate. "Merry Christmas" to a non-Christian means, "Have a happy time since *I* am celebrating *my* holiday." It doesn't mean, "I hope that whatever you celebrate, you have a happy time."

Where is the tolerance in that?

Of course, many non-Christians celebrate Christmas. They like the commercialism and the gift-giving and the tree and other aspects that have lost all religious meaning since the early days when this ritual was first 'borrowed' from the Pagans as a way of co-opting their religion.

But I think many of them would appreciate a sincere "Happy holidays" more than a "Happy Easter" or the other religious remarks. And as business people, do you have your employees say things that respect diversity, or say things that will make many of your customers cringe and wonder why they shop or visit or bank at your establishment at all?


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## Fink-Nottle (Feb 25, 2001)

People of faith have passed on their good wishes to me at Christmas, Ramadan, Diwali, Hanukkah etc... I find it petulant to take offence from a sincere expression of goodwill. I certainly appreciate those sentiments far more than the ubiquitous "Happy Holidays"... a bromide on par with 'Have a nice day' and best left to those people who 'greet' you at The Gap.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

So is it insensitive to wish people the holiday, religious event, or whatever "thing" that would be happening around that particular time?

Why just Christmas/Easter?

We have associates who are Jewish who pass along a Happy Hanukah... although I've yet to meet someone to wish me a happy Kwanza. Maybe it's the overly sensitive people who don't openly celebrate their own beliefs? Why water it down? So is it okay to say "Happy Canada Day" when Americans are in the room? Maybe the Quebecers should be careful wishing a happy St. Jean de Baptiste day to anyone outside la belle province?

It seems like thinly veiled intolerance to me. But I guess it's the thing to do these days. _You're stepping on my rights by celebrating your beliefs openly!_

Have a happy non-denominational and/or non partisan seasonal day/week/month of observation regarding a subject of importance to group of people!


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Fink-Nottle said:


> People of faith have passed on their good wishes to me at Christmas, Ramadan, Diwali, Hanukkah etc... I find it petulant to take offence from a sincere expression of goodwill. I certainly appreciate those sentiments far more than the ubiquitous "Happy Holidays"... a bromide on par with 'Have a nice day' and best left to those people who 'greet' you at The Gap.


:clap: :clap: :clap:


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

> .. a bromide on par with 'Have a nice day' and best left to those people who 'greet' you at The Gap.


LOL. The longshoremen in the port of New York working at the container yards would wish you a "nice day" when when they wanted to tell you to F#%& Off...


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Stick with the good will and lose the advertorial when you don't know the circumstance.

Last time I checked "committee = diverse", sensitivity to others is not intolerance.

The question remains why YOU need to put an adjective/ownership title on an expression of good wishes in a diverse community.
If you are in your own place of worship or you KNOW the person by all means share YOUR mutual exchange of celebration.

There is good reason the UN has a tradition keeping religious expression at bay which Bush in all his bumbling crusader glory face planted over.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

HowEver said:


> Suppose you are a Hindu or a Sikh or a Muslim or Jewish or an atheist or one of the scores of other religions that do not practise Christianity, but you are a respectful person who realizes that you too live in a multicultural society.
> ....
> "Merry Christmas" to a non-Christian means, "Have a happy time since *I* am celebrating *my* holiday." It doesn't mean, "I hope that whatever you celebrate, you have a happy time."
> ....
> ...


I don't have to suppose, and people in good faith directing positive sentiments at me is not a problem; nor is someone saying 'bless you' when I sneeze. I am not bothered because of my rationality/understanding/faith/tolerance/??? (whatever term you like to describe it). 'Happy holidays' is also fine, although hopefully not done in fear of the language police. People spontaneously wishing others well is a great thing and too rare, even if I don't share their beliefs. This is not religious coercion, this is just accepting good wishes at face value from someone different. If everybody were the same, we'd call this place Utah.
...
I am very sorry you feel that way. Taking good wishes at face value seems like a better solution than cleansing the language. It may not be easy, but it balances cultural diversity and tolerance with reasonable expectations of citizens, in my opinion.
....
Say both! If someone says happy *insert*, and I can pronounce it, I'll say it back to them (or ask what it is and then say it back to them). Except Monday mornings -- that's silence time until I get my coffee! Wouldn't it be horrid if we all got to draw our own low-tolerance zones and everybody had to follow the 'rules' or be deemed inconsiderate or intolerant? 
....
Business should do what's best for their customers (within the laws of the land) and the owner can choose. Businesses don't cater to every customer idiosyncracy (the customer is not always right) but if they see problems, they can change their approach. I really hope society doesn't become so petty, but it will proceed where it will.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

« MannyP Design » said:


> So is it insensitive to wish people the holiday, religious event, or whatever "thing" that would be happening around that particular time?
> 
> Why just Christmas/Easter?
> 
> ...


:clap: 

Good points by you and FN.

Newspeak is alive and well.


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## jasonwood (Oct 19, 2003)

Fink-Nottle said:


> People of faith have passed on their good wishes to me at Christmas, Ramadan, Diwali, Hanukkah etc... I find it petulant to take offence from a sincere expression of goodwill. I certainly appreciate those sentiments far more than the ubiquitous "Happy Holidays"... a bromide on par with 'Have a nice day' and best left to those people who 'greet' you at The Gap.


I don't think any non-christian takes *offense* at "Merry Christmas". It's not about being offended. It's about being inclusive.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

MacDoc said:


> Then say happy holiday - what you seem not to get is associations are not the same for all and if you don't KNOW then tread lightly.


What is our goal here? To offend less people?  Who is being offended in the first place? 

I haven't heard any people complain about being wished a Merry Christmas or Happy Easter. I don't complain when people in Vancouver say Gung Hai Fat Choi or Happy Dawali to me.

However, I have heard lots of people get offended about the term Happy Holidays because it is a stupid PC term. So, using your own rationale, you should stop using it.


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## jasonwood (Oct 19, 2003)

Vandave said:


> I have heard lots of people get offended about the term Happy Holidays because it is a stupid PC term. So, using your own rationale, you should stop using it.


Is there any rational reason to be offended by "Happy Holidays"?

Even Bill O'Reilly has changed his position, by finally stating, " 'Happy Holidays' is fine, just don't ban 'Merry Christmas.' "


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

The goal is to be sensitive to others -New Years is not a religious greeting, Merry Christmas is.
And Vandave if you think people aren't annoyed boy are you out of the loop. 

Try Walmart Merry Christmas on your google search.

The question is of course - if it's innocuous then why are you disturbed if Best Wishes, Merry New Year, Happy Holidays replace it.
"methinks the ladies doth protest too much."

The turn of the year has been in human festivals for as long as there a records and certainly far far before.
Being inclusive of it as a festive season recognises that long diverse history that for all of humanity however it celebrated including those of us who enjoy Winter Solitice in the greeting.
Being sectarian neutral in seasons greeting is a positive step in showing acknowledgement of diversity being truly active in a community....not just tolerated but actively embraced.

Merry Christmas implies ownership of the festive season - a concept dear to the Christians since they swiped the holiday in the first place and very very out of place concept in a diverse Canadian mosaic.

I love the emerging concept of a Holiday Tree as a similar public acknowledgement of the diversity.

The sense I get here from the MC defenders is begrudgement, even in the dissing of the neutral phrases.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

I'm getting an odd sense of deja vu.  

Look, don't mess with Easter, capiche!?


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

MacDoc said:


> The goal is to be sensitive to others -New Years is not a religious greeting, Merry Christmas is.
> ....
> The question is of course - if it's innocuous then why are you disturbed if Best Wishes, Merry New Year, Happy Holidays replace it.
> "methinks the ladies doth protest too much."
> ...


Yes, let them be. Sensitivity isn't only about religion. People express their very exclusive love for each other in a relationship; it is not open to others but also not excluding although some 'feel' that way -- especially around Valentine's  ; it is merely their expression of love (hopefully with pants on in public). To draw a personal slight out of this or see it as unbecoming of a good secularist would be silly. It isn't always about me/you/etc. Sometimes it's just about a postive expression. Let them be.
....
Let people say what they want with honest positive sentiment. It doesn't matter if the wording is as you'd choose it. Making it matter seems somewhat intolerant.
....
But is celebrated at different times in different cultures. Yet we muddle through and accept our differences with joy.
....
You don't acknowledge diversity by cleansing it from public language. Greet people with a diversity of happy tidings. Virgin mobile had a good idea.  For others, they'll just use one or the other. What matters is the intent. Like the intent of the troublesome cartoons...
....
I am very sorry you feel this way.
....
It is great. It need not supplant other practices; it can supplement.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law:
....

This must really piss some people off. I can see room for improvement but 'founded' implies acknowledging where we came from so it does lead to certain ideas. It's a tough one that doesn't lend itself to easy secular Newspeak. Maybe ehmacers could *agree* upon and propose a new phrase?  (perhaps the Beejicon would have been more appropriate)


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## Fink-Nottle (Feb 25, 2001)

Macdoc writes:


> The goal is to be sensitive to others -New Years is not a religious greeting, Merry Christmas is.


I think you have it wrong on this... the people who wish me a happy Easter, Diwali, Hannukah etc know that I don't practice their faith and they aren't trying to convert me or annoy me. I take their gesture as implying "We know you are not of our faith but this is a special time for us and as part of our tradition we'd like to offer you our best wishes." I gratefully accept.



> Being sectarian neutral in seasons greeting is a positive step in showing acknowledgement of diversity being truly active in a community....not just tolerated but actively embraced.


That's the French idea and we saw that it lead to them banning Muslim girls from wearing headscarves in schools. Better to live in a place where people freely express their beliefs and acknowledge the beliefs of others rather than hiding them behind closed doors.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

What if, as demonstrated by this thread, there are many people wishing others a "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Easter" who do so not because their employer tells them to or because they have strong beliefs or even because they are wishing people well, but because they do want to push something on the receivers of these well wishes?

"Merry Christmas" for most people is just "Have a Nice Day" before the holidays. Very few practise their religion even at Easter and Christmas, in any way, and if they did practise their religion, they would not take pleasure in making other people uncomfortable, or worse. Do any of you see yourself in that statement?

It seems to me these threads always have good intentions but turn into "I'll wish you Merry Christmas, alright, screw you!"


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

HowEver said:


> What if, as demonstrated by this thread, there are many people wishing others a "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Easter" who do so not because their employer tells them to or because they have strong beliefs or even because they are wishing people well, but because they do want to push something on the receivers of these well wishes?


Important question, as would be the question of people who want to enforce 'Happy Holidays' because of an axe to grind not because of other reasons. We can not allow the constantly sensitive or 'axe to grind' people or religious zealots to set the agenda. The results will not be to anyone's liking but one small group. 

Is it that hard to take good wishes, delivered from a framework not of your belief, as good? Yes, some may mean it in a less-than-positive manner, and that applies to all conversation. This is not new or unique to secular-pluralist-religious-zealot conflict. Some people are just jerks. Don't let their behaviour redefine how the rest must interact.

I have no idea what Kwanza is, but if someone wished me Happy Kwanza, that would be very nice of them. I know of one or two who are offended by 'happy holidays' and I really don't think their feelings should set the agenda. The amount of things that can be perceived as 'exclusionary' or 'inconsiderate' is vast; the ability to face up to this diversity with reason, honesty and love is also vast, even if we don't know it yet. The basic foundation of letting reason, honesty and love be the guide is self-confidence. Without it, the world is your enemy. 

Many are offended by much of the TV content now and I don't think their feelings should set the agenda. Cleansing language of things that may or may not offend someone is not a good goal (or even possible); empowering the extremist Christians, Muslims, Atheists etc. to control language is a bad idea, in my opinion. Live and let live and enjoy the diversity. Cultural diversity isn't just trinkets, architecture and fun stories. Some of it is greetings, different celebrations, and more. 

Sermon finished. Support Beejism by PMing your moderator to standardise the Beejicon.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Where do you jump from sensitivity to banning. 
A nativity scene in a Catholic church is a far cry from one in a public square.

Tell me something FN - I'll stroll up and casually wish you a Merry God is Dead day.....I'll do it up in tinsel and pretty lights. Still feel the same??

Why do good wishes need some sort of branding accompanying them.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

MacDoc said:


> \Tell me something FN - I'll stroll up and casually wish you a Merry God is Dead day.....I'll do it up in tinsel and pretty lights. Still feel the same??


:yawn: 

Happy Chrismahanukwanzakah and merry/cheerful/'existentially bearable' all the specifics.

Do you 'get' the idea behind my long-standing hugs request yet? :love2:


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Beej, I am a bit late, but have a safe Passover. Shalom, mon ami.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Dr.G. said:


> Beej, I am a bit late, but have a safe Passover. Shalom, mon ami.


Thanks and that's quite a language mix. I'm offended!.  

Happy Passover (sorry, but I don't know the 'official' greeting) and enjoy a beautiful Saturday. Your personal contributions to this discussion would be valued even if you may open up a flank for attack on that teflon exterior.  

Doxirum extensa infinitum.

Translation: What, do you think I know Latin?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

People who do not accept the fact that others will continue to use Happy Easter or Merry Christmas for that matter are themselves showing their particular intolerance.

If you believe that God is dead and want to wish me Merry God Is Dead on the anniversary of his death, fill your boots. It won't bother me one bit for I am tolerant of others customs.

So, Happy Easter to you all, like it or not.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Beej, there is no "official" Passover greeting. Good Passover, Have a safe Passover, Have a peaceful Passover, are all some I personally have used. Paix, mon ami.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Happy Easter, Sinc. Paix.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Happy Easter to all, and to all a good life.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Bug Humbar. We just put away the last of the Christmas decorations.


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## Fink-Nottle (Feb 25, 2001)

Macdoc wrote:


> Tell me something FN - I'll stroll up and casually wish you a Merry God is Dead day.....I'll do it up in tinsel and pretty lights. Still feel the same??


If you were sincere about it (which you obviously aren't) then I would feel the same way.



> Why do good wishes need some sort of branding accompanying them?


The religious people I know base their lives around their faith and so events such as Easter, Ramadan, Diwali etc are fundamental to them. They aren't "branding" their good wishes nor do they restrict them to these times... but their festivals are a true celebration for them and they ask you to share in their happiness. The people who take offence tend to be (in my experience) anti-religious people with a chip on their shoulder and well meaning liberals who aren't bothered themselves but worry that others might be.


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## NBiBooker (Apr 3, 2004)

Happy Easter to all.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Fink-Nottle said:


> The religious people I know base their lives around their faith and so events such as Easter, Ramadan, Diwali etc are fundamental to them. They aren't "branding" their good wishes nor do they restrict them to these times... but their festivals are a true celebration for them and they ask you to share in their happiness. The people who take offence tend to be (in my experience) anti-religious people with a chip on their shoulder and well meaning liberals who aren't bothered themselves but worry that others might be.


:clap:

Exactly! You know who you are.


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## miguelsanchez (Feb 1, 2005)

Seeing as I don't celebrate Easter until next Sunday (we call it Pascha, btw), I'm offended at everyone wishing me a Happy Easter this weekend! (just kidding!)  

So happy Palm Sunday to all of you folks. Feel free to be offended at that remark, I don't care.  

BTW, for those of you who really are offended at "Happy Easter" why don't you reply by thanking the Christian who said it to you for the day off you get because of their HolyDay. Without them, you probably would have had to work this past Friday.

Peace and love to you all,

Miguel

P.S. Celebrate diversity. It's what makes this country great.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Lest we forget the real victims of Easter...


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## NBiBooker (Apr 3, 2004)

I saw that cartoon in the Globe, too funny!


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

The bold section below represents a great point. And if we really want to celebrate diversity, let's have holidays on other major religions holiest days. If we don't, this "celebrate diversity" celebration is a little phony.

"You have the right to celebrate your holiday too; now get to work!"




miguelsanchez said:


> Seeing as I don't celebrate Easter until next Sunday (we call it Pascha, btw), I'm offended at everyone wishing me a Happy Easter this weekend! (just kidding!)
> 
> So happy Palm Sunday to all of you folks. Feel free to be offended at that remark, I don't care.
> 
> ...


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## jasonwood (Oct 19, 2003)

miguelsanchez said:


> BTW, for those of you who really are offended at "Happy Easter"...


I don't think anyone said they were offended by "Happy Easter", just like nobody is actually offended by "Merry Christmas".

It's just that in the case of Christmas, some people choose to be inclusive and say "Happy Holidays" and the Christian right takes that as an attack on their religion.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I present people who do not believe in a higher power, the paranormal or UFOs by stating there is no proof of such things existing with the following statement to consider:

Absence of proof is not proof of absence.


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## jasonwood (Oct 19, 2003)

SINC said:


> I present people who do not believe in a higher power, the paranormal or UFOs by stating there is no proof of such things existing with the following statement to consider:
> 
> Absence of proof is not proof of absence.


Absence of proof is not proof of absence, but extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof, otherwise you might as well accept the possible existence of invisible pink unicorns because you can't disprove them.

Camp Quest is a secular summer camp intended for children of those who maintain a naturalistic, not supernaturalistic, world view. There is one in Ontario, if you are interested in supporting it! Anyway, at the grounds there are a pair of invisible pink unicorns, and there is a prize of $100 (I think) for any camper that can prove that they are not there. Naturally, nobody has ever taken the prize.

PS: Your argument could be better sated by saying "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence", but I'd still have the same reply.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

jasonwood said:


> Absence of proof is not proof of absence, but extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof, otherwise you might as well accept the possible existence of invisible pink unicorns because you can't disprove them.


Well put, but I prefer my theory of a pencil behind Alpha Centauri that controls our minds. Faith is faith, it doesn't need proving and cannot be proven.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Beej said:


> Well put, but I prefer my theory of a pencil behind Alpha Centauri that controls our minds. Faith is faith, it doesn't need proving and cannot be proven.


And they are somethings that we know exist yet can't prove. For example most wines are chemically indistinctable yet there exist marked taste differences.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> And they are somethings that we know exist yet can't prove. For example most wines are chemically indistinctable yet there exist marked taste differences.


They are different and the proof is that tasters can consistently identify them as different. Your point is understood (works better in physics examples) and that is why they are theories.

So what's your position on the whole Happy Easter/Holidays/etc. thing?


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## jasonwood (Oct 19, 2003)

Beej said:


> Well put, but I prefer my theory of a pencil behind Alpha Centauri that controls our minds.


I beg to differ. The evidence behind Pastafarianism is overwhelming. It is surely "the one try way".

The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

jasonwood said:


> I beg to differ. The evidence behind Pastafarianism is overwhelming. It is surely "the one try way".
> 
> The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster


"One of the hardest things to do as a scientist is to put my personal beliefs aside when discussing matters of science. So as a professional, I have to say that both forms of Intelligent Design - ID and ID-FSM are equally valid and if intelligent design is taught in schools, equal time should be given to the FSM theory and the non-FSM theory. But, speaking personally now, it seems to me the FSM theory is MUCH more plausable than the non-FSM ID theory, because it is the only one of the two that takes into account all the discrepancies between ID and measureable objective reality." 
-- Professor Douglas Shaw, Ph.D


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## jasonwood (Oct 19, 2003)

Get your hands on the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and learn the TRUTH today. For instance, we know there is gravity, and scientists have presumed that this is because masses attract each other, but we don't really understand how that works.

Through Pastafarianism, we learn that gravity is actually a result of the FSM pushing down on us using His Noodly Appendage. As population increases, there are less Noodly Appendages to go around, which explains why humans are getting taller. The correlation between the increase of height and the increase in population is undeniable, and reason enough to teach Pastafarianism in schools.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

I'm still noodling around the site. Very funny stuff.

"Intelligent Design With Balls: Two Holy Meat Balls and Omnipotent Noodly Appendages"

Are there lots of holidays?


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## jasonwood (Oct 19, 2003)

Beej said:


> I'm still noodling around the site. Very funny stuff... Are there lots of holidays?





> A note about the FSM Holiday season. People keep asking me what the FSM winter holiday is called - Ramendan, Pastamas, etc. Clever (not really), but no. Our winter holiday is named "Holiday", and stretches most of December and January. Consider how much our religion has spread over the last couple years; how many schools and businesses refer not to the "Christmas season", but to the pastafarian "Holiday season" instead? - Strong evidence of our rapid growth. A special thanks goes to Walmart, who rejected the Christian phrase "Merry Christmas" in favor of the Pastafarian greeting "Happy Holidays". We appreciate your support... FSM Holiday Trees: FSM Holiday Trees: http://www.venganza.org/spread/holiday_trees.htm


Then there's...

(1) every Friday - "the holiest of the Pastafarian holidays,"
(2) Pastover - "the time when the Flying Spaghetti Monster first began touching people with His Noodly Appendage,"
(3) Ramendan - where instead of fasting as in the Islamic period of Ramadan, I will "spend a few days eating only Ramen noodles and remembering ... [my] days as a starving college student,"
(4) Halloween - an important Pastafarian holiday that "honors the time when Pirates roamed the earth in freedom;"** and finally
(5) International Talk Like a Pirate Day - which takes place every year on September 19, when all Pastafarians "are encouraged to seek out...grog on this holiday; candy is optional."


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Include the poor bunny in the collateral damage



> *Row over Easter bunny turns sour*
> By Imogen Foulkes
> BBC News, Bern
> 
> ...


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4913470.stm

I just love iconic possession claims religions OR corporations......


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

I would assume then that the Atkins diet (no carbs) is an assault on FSM and that Dr. Atkins is the anti-FSM
A holy war should be declared on Atkins and his followers (non-believers)


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Are there ceremonial lashes with a wet noodle?


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## jasonwood (Oct 19, 2003)

Beej said:


> Are there ceremonial lashes with a wet noodle?


There are a number of references to such a practice online, but I'm not sure if it's actually in the gospel. I haven't finished reading it yet... It was only released a few days ago, after all!


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

It has been around for a bit, maybe it's becoming formalized. Next up, power.


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## jasonwood (Oct 19, 2003)

Beej said:


> It has been around for a bit, maybe it's becoming formalized. Next up, power.


Yeah, the FSM was originally conceived in an open letter to the Dover School Board when the whole Intelligent Design issue came up. September 2005, I think. As of March 28, 2006, the "Gospel" is available on Amazon and bookstores everywhere...

<table cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="95%"><tbody>
<tr><td colspan="2" valign="top">
The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster*-*_Bobby Henderson
_</td></tr><tr><td align="center" valign="top" width="50"> 
</td><td align="left" valign="top">
Behold the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM), today’s fastest growing carbohydrate-based religion. According to church founder Bobby Henderson, the universe and all life within it were created by a mystical and divine being: the Flying Spaghetti Monster. What drives the FSM’s devout followers, a.k.a. Pastafarians? Some say it’s the assuring touch from the FSM’s “noodly appendage.” Then there are those who love the worship service, which is conducted in pirate talk and attended by congregants in dashing buccaneer garb. Still others are drawn to the Church’s flimsy moral standards, religious holidays every Friday, or the fact that Pastafarian heaven is way cooler: Does your heaven have a Stripper Factory and a Beer Volcano? Intelligent Design has finally met its match–and it has nothing to do with apes or the Olive Garden of Eden.Within these pages, Bobby Henderson outlines the true facts– dispelling such malicious myths as evolution (“only a theory”), science (“only a lot of theories”), and whether we’re really descended from apes (fact: Humans share 95 percent of their DNA with chimpanzees, but they share 99.9 percent with pirates!)
</td></tr></tbody></table>


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## jasonwood (Oct 19, 2003)

Wow, this thread got off topic fast!

Brian Fleming did a great interview this morning on a Christian radio show, discussing the War on Easter with Kirby Wilbur.

Very unusual to have a Christian radio host willing to listen to arguments like this.

http://www.rationalresponders.com/media/4-17FlemmingonFox.mp3


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

What I find particularly ironic is how some non-Christians will become offended over someone wishing them a "Merry Christmas" versus "Happy Holidays," yet those same non-Christians still call their 'tree' a "Christmas Tree" versus the "Holiday Plant."


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

That you don't see the difference is your problem not theirs, and Holiday tree is indeed gaining adherents as it's a far more accurate decription given the background.

Perhaps some reading in Christian history would enlighten you about the various sectarian views regarding the 25th and the much earlier foundations of the myths and traditions.
http://www.strike-the-root.com/4/wasdin/wasdin30.html

Evergreens have been a part of winter solstice celebrations for millenia. It's a holiday *season*



> As for the person who said he hoped we would get back to the real meaning of Christmas, all I can say is, watch what you wish for, you just may get it.


 :clap:


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## jasonwood (Oct 19, 2003)

Lars said:


> What I find particularly ironic is how some non-Christians will become offended over someone wishing them a "Merry Christmas" versus "Happy Holidays," yet those same non-Christians still call their 'tree' a "Christmas Tree" versus the "Holiday Plant."


I don't think you really understand the nature of the war on Christmas.

I don't think anyone is *offended* by "Merry Christmas", but many people chose to start using "Happy Holidays" as a way to be more inclusive. As a result, there was a backlash by the Christian community, led by Bill O'Reilly.

Key point: The "War on Christmas" was started by Christians.

When atheists refer to the "war on Christmas", it is a joke, because the idea of there being a war on Christmas is absurd.

Beyond Belief Media was interested in showing Christians what it would really look like if there was a war on one of their holidays, and it seems that's what they attempted this Easter. To an extent, it seems to have worked.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

And to think... after all these years... Charlie Brown LIED TO ME!!!

Linus, you bastard!


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