# Disgusted with Tiger



## Carl (Jun 7, 2003)

I am probably going to have to go back to 10.3.9. Why?
1) Microsoft Entourage keeps corrupting my PDF's and Photos when I send them. I don't like Apple Mail (doesn't do everything Entourage does).
2) I miss having WMP and Real embedded video when surfing with Safari.
3) I miss how fast and stable VLC was under 10.3, playing AVI's is slow and stuttery. QT extensions are sluggish or non-operative.
4) iMovie crashes during some transition renders if Spotlight kicks in.
5) I want the option of turning off Dashboard without getting technical or installing 3rd party software. I just don't use widgets and don't care how "cool" they are.
6) It's bad, when I have to fire up the PC to play movies on the TV or send some email.

Not a huge list, but I use my computer mostly for email, iMovie and playing movies, so it is becoming unusable to me. If I am missing something, please say so.


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## rhino (Jul 10, 2002)

Thanks for your POV, Carl. Early adopters are always the canaries in the coalmine. we need to hear more feedback whether positive OR negative. EhMac is listening.


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## adam1185 (Feb 16, 2005)

If you don't want to use dashboard just close all the widgets and don't use it.


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## andreww (Nov 20, 2002)

I tend to agree with you. I have experienced attachment props with both Mail and Entourage. Just was in Itunes watching the Cinderella Man trailer and it was stuttering all over the place. I prefer Konfabulator but that now runs like crap. 

On the bright side my tibook fan has stopped running constantly, and my 3D games play much better.

Rumors say 10.4.2 is on the horizon so lets hope they fix some things.


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## Klaatu (Jun 3, 2003)

adam1185 said:


> If you don't want to use dashboard just close all the widgets and don't use it.


This doesn't turn off Dashboard and that what some of us want -- options. 

Plus it ignores all the other problems, especially the one that ticks me off the most -- corrupted attachments in Entourage. All this time and still no fix.

To me, all the beefs from andreww have merit, and tolerating these screw-ups (e.g. "Yeah, but look at wonderful Spotlight is!") shouldn't be tolerated.


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## Chealion (Jan 16, 2001)

Here are a few suggestions:
2) Try reinstalling WMP and Real Player, it sounds like they've lost their associations and need to be reinstalled.
3) Try deleting your VLC preferences. I had the same problem and deleting the preferences fixed this.


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## thejst (Feb 1, 2005)

I don't use Entourage, so I can't comment there, but as a common user, I don't really notice much difference between Tiger and 10.3.7 and up (or Panther in general)
I did notice a speed jump on my iMac G5 and I really enjoy the Safari RSS features. 
I use VLC all of the time, and I haven't noticed any difference in performance. Perhaps Chealion is right about the prefs. Logic runs as well as it ever did.
I just wanted to wish you luck- My experience is so much better than Windows. I wish you the same.


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## Paul O'Keefe (Jun 3, 2005)

*No need to get 10.4 for a while*

I'm not upgrading to Tiger for a while longer. Panther is doing everything I need or want it to do. Nor am I upgrading to Quicktime 7. I have a pro key for 6, why would I want to give that up.

I have no idea was Quicktime 7 is an advertised selling point of tiger, since it's available for anyway for Panther.


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## picxpert (May 19, 2005)

With respect to Dashboard: you can remove the icon from the Dock (right-click, "Remove from Dock") and remove the F-key assignment - then, it will never run. Since the widgets are not loaded until you first load Dashboard, and are not running when Dashboard is not shown, there's no performance hit.


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## bmovie (Jan 18, 2003)

I"m going to agree with Carl....how would you go back to the latest Panther?

Archive and install? 

I find too many little things that are not working with Tiger and those are the items I work with the most. 

It's unfortunate, but what else is a person to do?


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I almost went back - I'm still disgusted with the search features.

But it might be a tad tricky and while we are on the subject the iMacs can only boot on Tiger so anyone expecting otherwise be warned>


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## DS (Oct 7, 2004)

I agree with the Stuttering stuff.

I used to be able to play 2 movies, 1 on each screen with no problems whatsoever. Either 1 in QT and WMP, or QT & VLC, etc.

Now it's impossible with out slowing both movies to a halt and them stuttering to no end.

This was a complete erase and install ..


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## Elias26 (Apr 19, 2005)

Could this be Mac Mail's fault.. but when I sent my webpage to school via Mac Mail and I opened it up I noticed I was missing half of my HTML code. I have no idea why half of the code was missing...


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

There seems to be quite a few issues with QT 7



> More on freezes in full-screen mode We continue to receive reports from readers who experience freezes where the system becomes unresponsive but the mouse cursor can still be moved when entering full-screen mode in various applications under Mac OS X 10.4.x.
> 
> One reader writes:
> 
> ...


http://www.macfixit.com/


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## bmovie (Jan 18, 2003)

so how do we go back to Panther?

is as easy as the ARCHIVE and INSTALL feature on the Panther disc?

Because now i'm wondering if Tiger is my reason iDVD is acting up.


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## Heart (Jan 16, 2001)

QT 7 sucks - as posted
But I like Tiger - even with its 'quirks'


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

bmovie there are application issues for Mail and Safari.


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## Elias26 (Apr 19, 2005)

Prior to purchasing Tiger, I ran the new Serenity trailer at 1080p and it ran smoothly on my computer using Panther 10.3.9. Get this, it wasn't until I updated my Mac OS to Tiger 10.4.1 that I experienced lag and choppy video on QT7 running the same trailer...

What the heck happened?


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## bmovie (Jan 18, 2003)

MacDoc said:


> bmovie there are application issues for Mail and Safari.



So if I use Mail i'll lose my email address and lose my bookmarks for safari? If I go back to Panther I'll go back to Firefox for my browser and use entourage for my mail.

And if that is the only thing I have to worry about I can live with it. I just have to have an OS that isn't going to bugger up the only software I use the most


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

perhaps I'll stick to my first plan, go to tiger on .4


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

You can download Safari 1.2 or use Shiira but I'm more concerned with the Mail app recognising your Mail 2.0 mboxes.


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## bmovie (Jan 18, 2003)

MacDoc said:


> You can download Safari 1.2 or use Shiira but I'm more concerned with the Mail app recognising your Mail 2.0 mboxes.


Oh if that is the case then i'm not worried I still have all my settings for Entourage!


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## andreww (Nov 20, 2002)

Relax guys, these are fairly minor annoyances for the most part. As I said 10.4.2 has on the verge of being seeded to developers, so it should be out this month. Tiger is still very solid, but definately not worth the upgrade cost. I've said that from the begining. 

I am the guinnea pig who gets to try this stuff out, and as of yet I still cannot reccomend this release for our 20+ other macs.

-Mail issues
-Video issues
-No longer able to access windows network (Dave is incompatible)
-Printing issues on local network
-Font issues.

My advice if you haven't upgraded is to save your cash. As anearly adopter you expect a speed bump to compensate for the glitches, but Tiger is definately slower than 10.3.9.


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## bighog (Jan 13, 2001)

I don't use Entourage so I can't say anything about that other than blame M$ for the most part.

Regarding the WMP/VLC (I refuse to install the virus called Real, but I imagine the solution is the same) I ahd the same problems. I reinstalled WMP and the problem was fixed. It likely was the file associations. You could probably manually re-associate the file types but reinstalling is just as easy.

I can also confirm the solution for VLC. I had the same issue. It actually crashed everytime I tried to use it. Removing the proefs worked for me.

Good luck. Don't give up! I work/develop all day on Windows machines and I'll tell you the "minor" frustations on OS X are just plain trivial compared to what I deal with at work.


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## iGeeK (Jan 27, 2003)

The only major issue for me after switch to Tiger was that iPhoto became completely non-useable. I archived it so it doesn't pop-up when I insert my camera's media. It was being scheduled for deletion under Panther already, but in Tiger it'd crash and/or stall at the slightest excuse. 

I made quite an effort to use it, but it is really not worth it. Back to the drawing board with that app, Apple. 

By the way, while archiving it I noticed how extremely bloated it is. Zipped (105MB) it is still twice the size of Photoshop 7, and 25 times the size of the shareware app which I use instead of it. iPhoto consists of over 17,000 elements. Why? I'd expect that level of complication from software needed to run a huge industrial plant, not something for organizing my snapshots! 

Other than that, Spotlight while supremely annoying, can be suffered through. However, I do hope they fix it and soon.


iG/<


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## Eidetic (Oct 6, 2003)

i was most dissapointed in the lack of performance increase i saw on a G5 with Tiger, i was expecting more gaa gaa goo goo effect with the whole 64 bit optimization.

i think tiger actually slowed my G5 down


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## bmovie (Jan 18, 2003)

bighog said:


> Good luck. Don't give up! I work/develop all day on Windows machines and I'll tell you the "minor" frustations on OS X are just plain trivial compared to what I deal with at work.


Oh I won't give up, just frustrated. Finally got my machine to go fast and I cannot use it to it's full potential. 

I think i'll do a clean install of iDVD and see where that gets me first.


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## Joey (Mar 10, 2005)

Maybe I'm expecting too much from my Mac mini (1.42/1gb ram) but after I upgraded to Tiger, certain things take forever to load. Whenever I boot up, I normally load up safari, mail and adium right away and it just takes forever to load the 3, like a good 45-60 seconds of beachball. I don't remember it being that bad on Panther.


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## bmovie (Jan 18, 2003)

So should we stay with Tiger or go back to Panther?

That is the Question!


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## andreww (Nov 20, 2002)

My guess is that the updates will bring some speed and stability. Stick with Tiger if you can.


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## DP004 (Mar 9, 2005)

I use a partition of my firewire external HD as a testing ground for Tiger.
From a copy of my current Panther 10.3.9, I did an Archive and Install and I start-up in Tiger when I want to test my tools. I tested 10.4.1 and will use this to test 10.4.2 and so on and so on... until the thing becomes decent. 
I use Entourage often and can't afford data corruption. 
Meanwhile, I ride on a Panther.
I must agree that even though Tiger increased speed in some area, it is not worth the cost. 
Actually it is not worth the name.
May be Felix, Lynx at the most.


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

I honestly haven't had any problems with Tiger. I find it more reliable than Panther, it's faster, I love Dashboard and Spotlight. I already can't live without Spotlight. Browsing is faster and I love RSS. Mail works perfectly for me. iPhoto works flawlessly, as well as quicktime, WMP, VLC. (Not Choppy or stuttery.)

I did an upgrade, on an Old Installation of Panther 10.3.9, and well.. all I noticed was a speed bump on both the iMac G4 and iBook G4.

Hope you guys can stick it out, I'm sure your issues will clear up soon. If available, why not make an installation on a back up drive for now? Then when the updates for Tiger come out you can update them


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## bryanc (Jan 16, 2004)

*I love Tiger, but YMMV*

It does sound to me like you have some configuration problems. Try creating a test account, switching to that account and doing the things that are causing you trouble. If the problems is restricted to one account, it's gotta be something wrong with your preferences.

I only use about half a dozen widgets, but dashboard works well for me. I love spotlight... I estimate it's saved me 45 minutes of searching today alone.

Safari 2.0 rocks: I've yet to find something that doesn't work for me.

But I still think the best is yet to come. As I've said before, 10.4 is here to seduce developers... most of the best features are in the core OS where users won't see them, but they're there to facilitate fast and easy development of great software. There's hardly any software that will run on 10.3 but not on 10.2, but I think we'll be seeing a lot coming out that requires 10.4.

Until the killer app that you really want is available and requires 10.4, I can completely understand wanting to stay with the tried-and-true 10.3. And 10.3 is a great OS, so it's hard to improve on it. But as the bugs get ironed out in 10.4 (I haven't seen many, but I don't doubt that some people are having legitimate problems), and software that requires 10.4 starts hitting the streets, I think the lure of Tiger will get stronger.

Cheers


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Odd, since Tiger and the recent upgrade, my Safari is slower than it has been since Panther. An ehMac page takes 3 to 8 seconds to load now on high speed DSL. If I switch to (shudder) IE, it is lightening fast.

Why does everyone seem to have a different result?

EDIT, this post from hitting "reply" to seeing the result took 34 seconds. Crap time eh?


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

To me (A G4 user and finger nails dragging refusing to give up the G4)
...I thought Tiger was a G5 kinda of system, I mean...Well...It's Got "Core"
written all over it right?

What possible good could Tiger do for my G4?

(That's my eMac 1.25 and my Sawtooth Upgraded to a 1.0 Ghz btw)


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Maybe Tiger is actually optimized for Intel processors and that's why people are having problems? 

I haven't seen any issues (except with iPhoto causing colour drifts) on 5 different machines (G5, G4 powerbook, Cube and Mini). Speed is certainly no worse than Panther although I couldn't really say if its better. Spotlight works for me as advertised, as does Dashboard.

I hope people's problems are resolved soon as having an unstable or stunted system is no fun.


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## Carl (Jun 7, 2003)

Well, I am glad that I brought this thread up and that I am not alone. That means that there must be lots of unhappy Mac users (developers included), and that these issues will be addressed. I really think Tiger was a step back. I only see a couple of people here that saw improvement. VLC is my main player since Quicktime started to become so bloated and slow. I just read a thread that said VLC is still in beta for Tiger and that they are addressing some issues. I tried dumping the prefs from day one, and it didn't help me. The beta does run for a minute or so quite well, but then crashes. betas!
For now, I have imported my Entourage into Apple Mail. I will still use Entourage to get mail, but will just use Mail to send attachments and then cc them to my Entourage.
I have been thinking about how to revert, but Apple has made this almost impossible. I risk messing up mailboxes and have to deal with the new iPhoto format. 
Dashboard just infuriates me when I think about it. Imagine putting a program on your machine that doesn't have an off switch?
Spotlight also infuriates me. The old search worked just fine, and remember when we had the option of indexing a drive during off times? Does Apple know that we use programs like iMovie that constantly write to the hard disk?
Anyone thinking of upgrading to tiger should back off for now. Thank god my wifes B&W G3 is still at 10.3.9.
I get the P.C. headaches argument, but I am the only user on mine here at home, and have never had any crashes or viruses. I'm not really a big Mac flag waver these days. I just want a computer to do a few things without any hassles. I can't believe that I have to run my video off the PC! Is that some kind of reverse switch? ;-)


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

I got this from one of my email newsletters:


> Tiger and Palm PDAs
> 
> Here's a bump I hit when I installed Tiger. I can no longer sync my
> Palm. I've done some research and found that I'm not alone. It turns
> ...


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

Well, I'm glad this thread was posted. I'm definately NOT installing Tiger until these problems are fixed. I use VLC constantly, so just that alone is enough to make me wait.


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

There is a noted issue with Entourage and Tiger.

It has to do with Spotlight. For some reason when Spotlight indexes your HD, it causes Enotourage to hang as well as the problems already mentioned.

To fix this you need to exclude the MS User Data in your Spotlight settings. Spotlight will then ignore Entourage and all will be fine.


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

> perhaps I'll stick to my first plan, go to tiger on .4


this is always the wisest approach.

lars, do you still think there is no reason not to be an early adopter? hope you learn something from this and stop dispensing foolish advice.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Why does it seem that it's usually Microsoft cr.apps that have problems with Mac OS versions? 

Don't forget that people with problems tend to post because they are looking for solutions. People who have no issues may be in the significant majority yet remain silent. That said, if you rely on programs like Entourage and VLC, you've three choices: wait till the publishers of these apps release updates; use workarounds or just stick with Panther. No one is forcing anyone to upgrade and you won't miss what you don't know about....


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## picxpert (May 19, 2005)

Carl said:


> Dashboard just infuriates me when I think about it. Imagine putting a program on your machine that doesn't have an off switch?


Um... if you never activate it, it's never on. If you don't want to activate it, turn off the keyboard shortcut, and right-click on the Dock icon to remove it.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Can anyone tell me why Apple hasn't enabled the option to print Finder windows?

Sorry to dwell on that particular thing... It just stupefies me to no end.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Carl there is a utility to remove Spotlight - I don't like it either but it has SOME merit in searching emails but it's far from prime time.
You can also make your entire drive private.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

used to be jwoodget said:


> Why does it seem that it's usually Microsoft cr.apps that have problems with Mac OS versions?


It's only wishfull thinking...

With the latest release there has been problems with many Adobe apps, Quicktime, Apache, AppleTalk File-Sharing, Asante Ethernet cards, ATI, Audacity, Avid, Roxio and many, many, many more....

I think that Apple should be doing a better job than having many apps break everytime they release a new version of the OS - 
Microsoft does a better job with upgrades and running older software.


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## RJaMmin (Sep 15, 2004)

« MannyP Design » said:


> Can anyone tell me why Apple hasn't enabled the option to print Finder windows?
> 
> I agree it would be good if Apple would impliment this function into OSX as it was in 9, but there are 3rd party apps which do handle the task, tho' not as elegant as simply clicking print.
> 
> ...


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Tiger is pretty robust - I'd say more so than Panther BUT the apps are not yet up to speed - Apple cannot control that.

A real downside is that at least the new iMacs * can only run Tiger* now THAT is a seriously stupid move that was under Apple's control. 

I hope that will NOT be the case with the iBook release. .

Hmmm I have not tried my current version G5 tower on a Panther boot......oooooh that would be bad. Anyone???


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Turns out my speed problem with Safari wasn't Tiger at all.

I just had to unplug my modem for 10 seconds, reset the WAP and router and I am blazing fast again.

So Tiger is back off my bad books.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

SINC, rebooting your WAP(s) and router every so often is a good idea. My mother was visiting from England for three weeks. When she got home her internet access seemed screwed (she blamed it on my setting up an OSX account on my home machine so she could check her email here). But the problem was solved by rebooting her DSL router.

Uptime is important for 24/7 servers, but these systems are redundant and are often cycled for patch application. Rebooting your system every so often can solve lots of glitches - that said, I usually put my systems to sleep and only rebott every 3-4 weeks - usually as a result of applying an update.


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## kent (Oct 18, 2003)

I definitely have a few issues with Tiger - nothing huge. Perhaps the most annoying is my fast-user-switching and clock drop off the menu bar everytime I reboot ... WTF!


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## DS (Oct 7, 2004)

Chalk up one more HUGE pissoff.

iChat is useless now. What was absolutely no problem at all in Panther has become a pile of crap in Tiger. iChat video chat connects, but after about 4 seconds disconnects and says "iChat has not recieved data for 10 seconds" bla bla bla.

What a load. No, I don't have my firewall on, yes, I do have a public IP.

Never was a problem in Panther, why the hell is it in Tiger?


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## howing (Nov 14, 2003)

tiger sucks. i did the upgrade a few days ago, and it's been nothing but a cause of headaches. mail is probably the application i use most, and it's by far the worst version of mail yet. i miss jaguar. i miss panther. although panther 10.3.9 was a disaster........ 10.3.8 was perfect.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

klaatu said:


> This doesn't turn off Dashboard and that what some of us want -- options.


Everyone here knows that if you start up your Mac and don't start Dashboard, then Dashboard isn't running, right?

If you never start it, it isn't running. It doesn't load until that first time you hit F12.



MacDoc said:


> I almost went back - I'm still disgusted with the search features.


You know, other than the aesthetic changes, I don't recall you ever explaining what it is about Spotlight that you don't like. Can you please?



andreww said:


> -No longer able to access windows network (Dave is incompatible)


That's odd, for me, SMB got a whole lot better with Tiger. What exactly is broken for you?



used to be jwoodget said:


> (except with iPhoto causing colour drifts)


I have experienced this, but I am inclined to believe it's an iPhoto problem rather than a Tiger problem, as it didn't happen for me until I installed iPhoto '05, which was after I installed Tiger.



TroutMaskReplica said:


> do you still think there is no reason not to be an early adopter?


As I have said before, I have basically never had a problem with installing an update or major upgrade on the first day I could.

I've yet to isolate what I am doing different (other than not diddling with my system very much), though.



MacDoc said:


> A real downside is that at least the new iMacs can only run Tiger now THAT is a seriously stupid move that was under Apple's control.


And yet, it is entirely in line with their past practices. I couldn't install 8.1 on my iMac that came with 8.6, nor could I install 8.6 or 10.0 on my iBook which came with 9.1 and 10.1.

It's in Apple's best interest to keep users running the latest and greatest. Of course, it's in users best interests as well seeing as Apple historically ignores releases previous to the current one. :|


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## diemodern (Mar 17, 2005)

I clean installed Tiger on my mini and I think it rock'n'rolls!

Haven't had any issues whatsoever yet ... mebe I'm just lucky.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

People should start a class-action lawsuit against Apple for forcing them to buy Tiger 

Posterboy, I didn't notice the iPhoto 5 colour drift until Tiger but I must admit I hadn't had a lot of time to play with iPhoto until recently.


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## MacGYVER (Apr 15, 2005)

Based on this thread, one would think that Tiger was the worst Mac OS ever to have come out of Cupertino. Should I just skip this Tiger business as there is more negatives then praises on the internet for Tiger. Confused?


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## [email protected] (Mar 30, 2005)

Any late news on when 10.4.2 will be released? 
I haven't upgraded yet. In fact, I was about to yesterday, but when I went to the Apple Store in Yorkdale, I found out that they don't honour student discounts on software, which I think is supremely idiotic. I took the trouble to haul my butt into the store because I wanted to support the POS retail site in Canada and they wouldn't let me. As a result, I didn't buy Tiger yesterday.
At work today, I just finished reading this entire thread (slow morning) and I'm somewhat glad I didn't bite the bullet yesterday (still think the store's policy is loony though). I'll wait at least until 10.4.2 to upgrade.
I will say one thing about the retail store, though. It had a game that no other mac reseller had (been looking for weeks!) Neverwinter Nights. Happily playing away!


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## NBiBooker (Apr 3, 2004)

MacGyver, 

I've had an excellent experience with Tiger on my 933 iBook. I've found networking faster and more stable with Windows PC's, I don't use spotlight but I haven't noticed a performance hit either, and mail has been a great little app. 

Overall I'm 100 per cent satisfied with Tiger.


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## MacAndy (May 17, 2004)

I have updated 5 of the 8 studio Macs here at work and found very little problems. I *am* trying to migrate a user from a G4 450 to another G4 450 using Tiger, but it isn't cooperating. So far that's the only major glitch. All other Macs running along nicely. The three other studio people haven't gotten into Dashboard and Spotlight, and likely rarely will. I have used the Dictionary and played with a couple others, maybe 15 minutes total in the month and bit I've had it installed. Anyone running into issues with a specific application should consider reinstalling the application from the source disk.

Still, I am annoyed that the unix-based OS we're running on still litters my disk with temp files [Illustrator just started this a few days ago] and the whole prefs/caches files issue needs to be cleaned up considerably.

My only real beef still with OS X, as it has been from the start, is the horrible overload of crap fonts, and remnants thereof when using Suitcase. I pared my system down to the basic required set and yet still, in Suitcase, it shows all of the garbage listings of fonts I don't even have on my system! But that's not specific to Tiger. Just hope Tiger 10.4.2 fixes it. Or Kitten 10.5. ;-)


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