# Is Cdn money legal tender or not!?



## Melonie (Feb 10, 2005)

I went to the pet store today to buy two huge bags of kitty litter and some kitty food. Regular store I have been doing business with since late 1980's.

The sales person would not take a 100 dollar bill. They won't take 50's either. So I had to leave, head to the bank, wait in line for 10 minutes, go back to the store with a 20 dollar bill.

My question (because the damn bank couldn't answer it!) is:

Is it legal for a "registered in Canada" business to refuse legal Canadian tender as payment for goods offered for sale?

Mel


----------



## Heart (Jan 16, 2001)

I believe the answer is yes, they can refuse it.

But damn I hate it. To the point that I get all worried whenever I have a $100 or $50 on me.

I am hesitant on where I pull it out to spend it, I agonize over who will take it and I also fret over who and where I can 'break' a $100.
And to top it all off, what if it is fake, and I get 'fingered' for it.

Damn !


----------



## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

There are a lot of stores that won't take 100$ bills anymore because the 100$ is the most counterfeited of our bills (although some places just because their average transaction is less than 20$ and breaking 100$ bills can be a nightmare) if you have to do it more than a few times a day).

Most places in the former situation will take the shiny new 100$ bills, but it's annoying either way.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I had occasion to check this out with the federal government about four or five months ago. While their policy is that they "encourage merchants to accept all currency", they admit that anyone has the right to refuse to accept it if they are concerned about the bills authenticity.

Bottom line, carry lots of new twenties (old are falling out of favour as well) or use your debit card.


----------



## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)




----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Hey Mr. Mayor, when are we going to get "InterMac"?


----------



## winwintoo (Nov 9, 2004)

I love this type of question - sends me on a hunt and helps keep the old gray matter churning.

This is a quote from the Bank of Canada site:


> What is "legal tender"?
> A "tender" is an offer of payment of a debt. In Canada, legal tender consists of coins issued by the Royal Canadian Mint and bank notes issued by the Bank of Canada.
> This does not mean that a merchant is obliged to accept bank notes. The method of payment can be whatever is mutually acceptable to both parties — cash, credit card, cheque, etc. Thus, a merchant may refuse to accept bank notes in payment for goods or services, without contravening the law.


And this is a quote from Wikipedia:


> In some jurisdictions legal tender can be refused as payment if no debt exists yet. Consequently vending machines and transport staff do not have to accept the largest denomination of banknote for a single bus fare or bar of chocolate, and even shopkeepers can reject large banknotes. However, restaurants that do not collect money until after a meal is served would have to accept that legal tender for payment of the debt incurred in purchasing the meal.
> The right, in many jurisdictions, of a trader to refuse to do business with any person means a purchaser cannot demand to make a purchase, and so declaring a legal tender other than for debts would not be effective.


So the way I read it, if you .......use imagination here........ and then tried to pay with your $100 bill they would have to take it because a debt would have been established; because you were being civilized and just wanted to take the kitty litter home, they were simply refusing to do business with you which is their right.

Interesting.

Margaret


----------



## oryxbiker (Nov 29, 2001)

They can only legally refuse the old style $100 bills. This is the case where I use to work. But they should accept anything else. Money is Money.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Like I said, they encourage you to use it, but no one has to accept it. Go figure.


----------



## kps (May 4, 2003)

When I see a clerk starting to inspect a large new bill, I always say to them:

"It's good...I made it this morning."

Some don't bat an eye-lash, some give me a totaly confused look, some chuckle and give me my change...one young woman just said "Oh, it must be good then..."


----------



## simon (Nov 2, 2002)

PosterBoy said:


> There are a lot of stores that won't take 100$ bills anymore because the 100$ is the most counterfeited of our bills (although some places just because their average transaction is less than 20$ and breaking 100$ bills can be a nightmare) if you have to do it more than a few times a day).
> 
> Most places in the former situation will take the shiny new 100$ bills, but it's annoying either way.



It's not the $100 bill that's most counterfeited, it's the $10 and $20 as anything larger is usually looked at more closely and fakes are quicker to spot. You usually don't expect the smaller ones to be faked so you don't look as close. Of course there's more money to lose if you accept a fake 100 and it costs the counterfeiter the same to print a single bill no matter what the denomination so everybody assumes that's the bill that will be faked.


----------



## Melonie (Feb 10, 2005)

Thanks for the insight, folks!

BTW, oryxbiker, I had the Latest And Greatest $100 bills - with holograms and the "face" that shows up when viewed in front of a bright light. And I was (note "was") a customer of theirs for over 15 years!

Mel



oryxbiker said:


> They can only legally refuse the old style $100 bills. This is the case where I use to work. But they should accept anything else. Money is Money.


----------



## trump (Dec 7, 2004)

alright, I gotta clear this up. I was a cashier (drive-through at that) for a couple years and I know all about this issue. The problem with $100 and $50 bills is not that they are counterfeit, in fact those are the bills we'd rather accept. Sounds strange I know, but those two bills have so many damned security features in them (infrared, UV, colour, holograms, ghosting) that it's easy to spot a fake. This is in contrast to fake $5 bills, which are _extremely_ common, where our best judge for authenticity is usually the feel of the bill. If you rub your thumb along the face part of the bill you sould be able to feel texture changes and possibly the ink, depending on the condition of the bill.

Now you're probably wondering why we didn't accept $100 and $50 bills when the $5 and $10 bills were the problem. It's as somebody mentioned, they're hard to break. Making change for $100 can often ruin my till and force me to start handing out coinage instead of bills, which really pisses people off. Furthermore, we only keep so much currency in the safe - too many $100s means more bank runs.


----------



## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

FWIW, the store I worked in will only accept the new 100$ bills due to counterfeiting. A couple of locations got bitten when customers paid cash for their computers.


----------



## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

oryxbiker said:


> They can only legally refuse the old style $100 bills. This is the case where I use to work. But they should accept anything else. Money is Money.


Money is not money. There are countless situations where you cannot use legal tender to make a purchase.

Try buying a TV with unrolled pennies.


----------



## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

oryxbiker said:


> They can only legally refuse the old style $100 bills. This is the case where I use to work. But they should accept anything else. Money is Money.


Uh, the post right above yours proves you are wrong.


----------



## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

For a time, our local L.C.B.O. didn't take $50s and $100s, isn't that ironic? The government did not accept their own money. :yikes:


----------



## moonsocket (Apr 1, 2002)

I wish I had a $100 bill right now.


----------



## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

My brother runs a small satellite shop in downtown TO and he doesn't except any of the older $100.00s but the new ones with the holograms are fair game.

Laterz


----------



## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

I think another big reason for not accepting the $100s, besides wiping out the float or having to carry a bigger float in a store, is that a lot of shop owners don't trust their staff to check the bills properly. In places that do take them, I've seen workers just put it straight in the till without looking at it for 1/2 a second. Store owners who depend on sometimes low-paid staff that aren't really committed to their jobs could easily show their people how to spot the bills, but aren't often too confident that they'll follow through. Some places have the little UV units that spot fakes, which makes it easy for staff to check all the bills, even fives.

If I receive a $50 or $100 in my business, I always pause for a second and look carefully at it. It's actually really easy to spot the fakes if you look at a bill for more than a second. I seen a couple of fake $20 and they really look fake, but could pass a quick glance. Some crooks try to distract the staff while passing the bills, so they won't get looked at. Feeling the texture is a dead giveaway, as was mentioned, because all the modern counterfeits are done digitally, whereas the real ones are printed on etching plates that leave a raised surface. Look for the coat of the PM or Queen as it has heavy lines put there specifically for that purpose. 

In the old days skilled counterfeiters would spend weeks creating a copy of the bill and make an etching plate to print them just like the real ones. They used to make bills that were very difficult to spot. I hear that some US fakes being passed in Europe are still being produced that way, but the new technology makes it much harder.

I used to have a little Canadian government handout that showed how to spot a counterfeit. I once asked to see the manager and proved to her using the handout that my bill was real and she took it. I do find the policy of not taking the bills very annoying too. Another time I wanted to pay for something that came out to $97 with tax and they wouldn't take my $100, even after I patiently showed them it was a real bill, so I left the store. Store policy. The place lost that $100 bill, plus any other $100 bills I might have spent there in the future, and I asked the clerk to tell his manager that.


----------



## MLeh (Dec 23, 2005)

We used to keep a fairly small float in our till, because most people paid by cheque or credit card (Not too many people paid for TVs with cash, and if they did, we were happy to accept their $50 and $100 bills.) Living in a small town we pretty much new everyone anyway. But most people were pretty good about understanding if we asked them not to pay for a small purchase with a large denomination bill. Never had a problem with a counterfeit bill. A few rubber cheques, but even those usually got resolved fairly easily.

However, one fellow, a relative of one of our employees, used to regularly come in to buy a battery or something else relatively small, and would always 'only have a $100', which we couldn't usually make change for, so his relative would dig the money out of his pocket and pay for it, or my husband would tell him to 'come back later with the money' (which he never would). 

My husband fixed him one day though, after the fourth or fifth instance, he made SURE we had enough cash in the till. All $1 bills. (This was a few years ago, obviously.). 'SURE I can break your $100." he said. Counted 'em out SLOWLY too. Never had that particular problem again.


----------



## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Bjornbro said:


> For a time, our local L.C.B.O. didn't take $50s and $100s, isn't that ironic? The government did not accept their own money. :yikes:


I guess you think that hospitals and universities are also government organizations?


----------



## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

HowEver said:


> I guess you think that hospitals and universities are also government organizations?


Okay not the best example, I'll admit. But you know, the Liquor Control Board of _Ontario_, a provincial government operated business (owned by us tax payers) wouldn't accept our federal issue currency.


----------



## Myrddin Emrys (May 24, 2005)

I got the last laugh on a retailer, when I helped someone buy a new computer and they would only take a cheque or credit card, no $100 or $50 bills so we went to the bank and took out $2500 in $20, $10, and $5 bills.

It took them 20 minutes for 3 people to check the bills and count them.


----------



## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

As I understand it, any business can refuse (or demand) any form of payment they choose. There is no requirement that they accept cash at all, and although most do because customers want to use cash, you can't do anything at all if they insist on some other form of payment and refuse your bills or coins. It's perfectly legal.


----------

