# Any electricians in the house? How to mount an electrical outlet?



## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

I wonder if anyone has some insight into this mondane problem.

I had some additional electrical outlets added by an electrician. He mounted them all with the ground pin up. 
However, when I plug in night lights, a power consumption meter or a cord with a right angle plug on it, all these end up being upside down.
Other outlets in the house are mounted with the ground pin down which seems to make more sense.
If I look up the wiring in the Wiki, it shows the ground pin down, but if I look up the National Electrical code, the ground pin is shown up - so the electrician is following the NEC but all the products that plug into the outlet end up being upside down in thhat case.
The outlets themselves are not consistent either, on some the ground pin is up if the writing on the back of the receptacle is right side up, on others the ground pin is down.
Right now I'm flipping all the new outlets that were wired - a lotof work for nothing.
Anyone have a clue how we ended upwith this inconsistency?


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## bhil (Oct 30, 2004)

The NEC is just a basis for the code, each province has it's own extension of the code and can be different. In Saskatchewan the code has the ground pin down, I don't know what the code is for Ontario.


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## JPL (Jan 21, 2005)

Ground pin down in Ontario. It's a fairly simple matter to turn the recepticle in the box.
Flip the breaker for that recepticle unscrew the cover, remove the top and botton holding screw, flip the recepticle around and put the holding screws back , put the cover on flip the breaker back on and voila, your stuff will be rightside up.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

The house where these outlets were added is actually in Montreal, Quebec. Anyone know the code there?
I have flipped about a dozen outlets so far - not everyone is quite as easy as you describe. When I flip the outlet, the ground terminal moves from the very top of the receptacle to the very bottom and sometimes the ground wire is not long enough so I have to splice. Pain in the butt.
I should have gotten the electrician back but he would probbly tell me it's done to code, Quebec code that is.


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## Boomcha (Jan 29, 2004)

I have a close friend that is an electrician and he told me that new code in Ontario is with the ground pin up. I also prefer the ground pin on the bottom and changed a bunch at my house to that.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

Boomcha said:


> I have a close friend that is an electrician and he told me that new code in Ontario is with the ground pin up. I also prefer the ground pin on the bottom and changed a bunch at my house to that.


I think he is going to have a bunch of unhappy customers.
Everything I bought recently (in Ontario) that plugs into a wall outlet and has an orientation to it assumes the ground pin is at the bottom.
The latest item I bought was an energy meter at CTC. It plugs into the wall outlet and the device whose energy consumption you want to measure plugs into the energy meter. The meter has three lines of display - if the outlet you plug it into has the grounding pin on top, the display will be upside down.
Same problem with timers, nightlights etc.


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## miguelsanchez (Feb 1, 2005)

(in my best Monty Python voice...ahem...)

...Luxury! You've got grounded outlets! Why, when I was you're age, if we wanted to watch a bit of telly we had to ride a stationary bike out in the garden that drove a generator, even in blinding snowstorms, while hail the size of golf balls pounded us, and...

...oh well, you get the drift.

Wot happens with sideways-mounted outlets? Do the ground pins go to the left or the right?beejacon


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## miguelsanchez (Feb 1, 2005)

Or you can get some of these:

http://www.360electrical.com/


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

miguelsanchez said:


> Wot happens with sideways-mounted outlets? Do the ground pins go to the left or the right?beejacon


The only time when orientation of the receptacle is really important is 
when it is mounted horizontally, it should be mounted neutral-up, (white wire) so that any conductive foriegn object falling across the prong will not 
short out or spark across the hot lead.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

Here in Alberta there is a book called "Electrical Code Simplified" that is available in DIY stores such as Rona. I imagine that other provinces have something similar, I would recommend picking up a copy if you are doing any home wiring.

If you have any specific questions, it is always a good idea to call an electrical inspector in your area. If you call first thing in the morning before they go out to do inspections you have a good chance of getting an immediate answer.


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## Jason H (Feb 1, 2004)

Boomcha said:


> I have a close friend that is an electrician and he told me that new code in Ontario is with the ground pin up. I also prefer the ground pin on the bottom and changed a bunch at my house to that.


They like to put them ground pin up so that if the plug starts to fall out and if anything was to fall it would touch the ground and not a hot pin.

Interesting eh?


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## Wolfshead (Jul 17, 2003)

They're supposed to be ground pin up for the very good reasons cited above. Why hire a qualified person to do a job and then change it?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Wolfshead said:


> They're supposed to be ground pin up for the very good reasons cited above. Why hire a qualified person to do a job and then change it?


Oh, let me see. 

Could it possibly be to match 99% of the outlets that are out there in Ontario homes for the past 40 years or so?

I guess they all burned down from things falling on them. It must have been a huge safety issue and a very big media event.

I must have missed that safety report, did I?


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## Wolfshead (Jul 17, 2003)

Oh my god!! Quick, let's all hurry to conform with the "99% of the outlets that are out there in Ontario homes for the past 40 years or so" (wonder where you got your figures) even if they're wrong. The original post asked for an electrician's advice. This was given and, apparently, ignored. What more's to be said?


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

OK. Let's put it this way.

I just bought a new house. My previous house was new. Every outlet in both homes were/are ground down.

So if that isn't code, why did it pass?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

MaxPower said:


> OK. Let's put it this way.
> 
> I just bought a new house. My previous house was new. Every outlet in both homes were/are ground down.
> 
> So if that isn't code, why did it pass?


My point exactly MP. And the home I owned in Ontario in 1970 was ground pin down. Sorry but that is only 36 years ago, so, if you're a picky, er type, I guess my 40 years estimate wasn't even close. Or was it Wolfshead?


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

Also I just had some outlets installed in my new place by a qualified electrician who has been in business for 30+ odd years.

Guess what? Yup. He installed all of the outlets ground pin down.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

MaxPower said:


> Also I just had some outlets installed in my new place by a qualified electrician who has been in business for 30+ odd years.
> 
> Guess what? Yup. He installed all of the outlets ground pin down.


I guess we are stuck in the past, eh MP?


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

Either that or our houses are going to burn down. 

Come to think of it all of the homes I lived in and visited have has the outlets ground pin down. And they are still standing.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

MaxPower said:


> Either that or our houses are going to burn down.
> 
> Come to think of it all of the homes I lived in and visited have has the outlets ground pin down. And they are still standing.


The current house I live in is the same. Come to think of it, so are all my neighbour's homes.

Gosh, should we be calling the fire department, or does that come later?

Where IS that panic button?


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## Jason H (Feb 1, 2004)

Wolfshead said:


> They're supposed to be ground pin up for the very good reasons cited above. Why hire a qualified person to do a job and then change it?


I'm pretty sure its not in the code. 

I think the issue is more with getting work done by a qualified tradesperson and then mucking about with it.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Kinda like Pluto is no longer a planet.

Same thing applies here. Some dope with a better idea, says everything we have done for 40 years is wrong.

Heavy on the "dope" if you get my drift.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

Wolfshead said:


> They're supposed to be ground pin up for the very good reasons cited above. Why hire a qualified person to do a job and then change it?


The problem I have with "ground pin up" is that all the timers, nightlights, power meters and even the cords that have a right-angle plug on them are either upside down or face in the wrong direction. The cord for instance goes up the wall instead of down, display on timers is upside down.
Obviously the industry is not following the 'ground pin up" standard if there is such a thing and btw, all of these devices I'm plugging in, are CSA approved, so CSA doesn't doesn't consider this a safery issue.
All the houses I have ever bought or apartments I have rented, always had the ground pin down, both in Ontario and Quebec - it's only the latest additions by a Quebec electrician where the receptacles are mounted ground pin up which means everything I plug in is upside down.
Interesting that Ontario just changed the code to grond pins up as someone posted. I wonder how they rationalize having everything that plugs into the receptacles upside down now.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

I just came across this:

http://www.frontlines247.com/frontlines247Service/EU_S1c.asp?FaqID=72

The Ontario code does not specify the orientation of outlets - ground pin can be up, down, right or left.


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## sammy (Oct 12, 2002)

I was just about to post that KRS.
I remember in trade school that this topic came up. The arguments for ground pin up made sense, but didn't account for enough of a fire/safety hazard to clarify it in the code book. (That was quite a few years ago though.)


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## Paul O'Keefe (Jun 3, 2005)

My father's an electrician and he was helping us by updating the electrical receptacles in an older home. When we put them in, he wanted to put the ground up. We asked him to but the ground down instead. He said, that way was upside down to him.


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## sammy (Oct 12, 2002)

If anyone has access to the latest edition of the Ontario Electrical code book, there are diagrams showing receptacle configurations, (Diagram 1, page 328). They all indicate the ground pin up, however, as mentioned above this is not a hard and fast rule.


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## Boomcha (Jan 29, 2004)

Jason H said:


> I'm pretty sure its not in the code.
> 
> I think the issue is more with getting work done by a qualified tradesperson and then mucking about with it.



My father in law is an electrician for the past 30 years and he just finished up rewiring part of our house. Even though its NEW code, and I mean REALLY REALLY NEW code, he still asked us what we liked and we said down so thats what he did. Its my house, my rules! When its your house you make the decisions. If its not going to harm anyone then whats the problem with having it the old way? Most houses in Ontario are ground pin down and turning it around would mess with a bunch of applications.

There is something called a Grandfathers clause when it comes to this too. If thats the way code was when it was installed then its fine. Just up to the proprietor to decide if they want to incur the charges to change it.


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## miguelgarbutt (Mar 22, 2017)

1.	Make a Starter Hole with a Screwdriver. 
2.	Find the Wall Cavity with a Clothes Hanger.
3.	Strip Cables Before Pulling Them. 
4.	Cut Holes in Tile with a Rotary Tool. 
5.	"Old Work" Boxes. 
6.	Fold Wires Into the Box. 
7.	Use the Same Gauge Wire. 
8.	Trim Metal Supports.

Sons of Electric


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

It is a mystery to me why anyone would join to offer advice on and *11 YEAR OLD THREAD*. Are there hot links to follow as spam?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

SINC said:


> It is a mystery to me why anyone would join to offer advice on and *11 YEAR OLD THREAD*. Are there hot links to follow as spam?


That hole in the wall has been waiting for 11 years for this rather sparse collection of instructions.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

SINC said:


> It is a mystery to me why anyone would join to offer advice on and *11 YEAR OLD THREAD*. Are there hot links to follow as spam?


BLame Google.

Used to happen to me as well.
I search for something on google, hits come up, I click in a relevant one and start typing without checking the date.
Now google actually often shows the date in the list of hits which helps if one looks for it.


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