# James Kim missing...



## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

Any of you here who have watched TechTV or get info from CNet are probably somewhat familiar with tech reporter James Kim.

This past weekend James and his family (wife and two children) went missing. His wife and children have been found and are unavailable for comment but James is still missing.

This link is to Leo Laporte's blog which contains about as much information as is currently available. http://leoville.vox.com/

and a CNet article with updated info regarding the search. http://news.com.com/Searchers+think+they+are+nearing+missing+CNET+editor/2100-1028_3-6141107.html

I, for one, am keeping him in my prayers...


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Those are such horrid decisions to try and make. I guess my general thought would ALWAYS stay with the vehicle just as you always stay with a boat.

Still let's hope - hard to believe it's that rugged that all that manpower in a five mile stretch can't locate him


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## overkill (May 15, 2005)

Ive been following this sad story. Seems that he did have some outdoors experience, but I agree with MacDoc, stay with the car. But of course this is easier said than done. I do hope that they find him alive and well. In my thoughts him and his family are.


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## manaia (Oct 1, 2005)

Yeah I read about this over the weekend. It's sad alright when he is a well to do man with just a young family. 

I'm not too sure about the outdoor experience thing though...
I was taught at a very young age not to go mountain climbing or hiking outdoors in _blue jeans_!? When they get wet they will never dry. And his other pair of pants were found on a path heading to the river. He probably could have used them for a hat...
Sadness none the less


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

To understand how lost this dude really is, this is approx. where his family was found:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=....838062&spn=0.040165,0.122223&om=1&iwloc=addr


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

Bad scene to say the least.
Why did he leave the road? How would he get help in the middle of a forest?


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

News popping up that his body has been found. No word on wether dead or alive.

EDIT: It appears he is dead.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/oaklandtribune/localnews/ci_4789962


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

Body implies dead.


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## modsuperstar (Nov 23, 2004)

guytoronto said:


> To understand how lost this dude really is, this is approx. where his family was found:
> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=....838062&spn=0.040165,0.122223&om=1&iwloc=addr


That really is the middle of nowhere. To get where they were there must have been some side roads or something to get that far off the beaten path. I find you don't get the full picture until you look at the hybrid view on Google Maps.

It's sad the story had to end that way. I had been hoping it would turn out with a happy ending for the family.


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## Brainstrained (Jan 15, 2002)

The absolute cardinal rule when lost is stay in one place. Move only if something threatens or endangers your life.

Every September at the start of the Scouting year, I take a real life incident to my Cubs to discuss and learn about what to do when lost in the bush.

I may use this one as a refresher in January as he made three errors that compounded the situation. He left his car - shelter, security and a potential resource; he left his family - the collective wisdom, knowledge and experience of two adults; and he left the road - an easier, less risky and more visible trail with a greater potential for rescue.

My sympathies for his family.


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

Unfortunately, he could have easily survived if he had simply stayed with his family.

A tragic mistake on his part.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Reminds us all too well how fragile life really is. It's indeed a lesson for all of us but I don't think we should focus on what mistake he made because if his mistake is trying to find help for his family then help us all for what the world's coming to. It's sad to see him go at such a young age but he probably fell asleep peacefully. God bless his soul, and his surviving family.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Sad indeed. If he had just waited for assistance. :-(


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## spicyapple (Aug 17, 2006)

SINC said:


> Sad indeed. If he had just waited for assistance. :-(


They've been waiting for 7 days or so. I wouldn't know what I would do in his situation, but it was dire enough that he took his chances. Unfortunately, from where they were stranded, the possibility of finding help was very slim.


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

This goes to show how ordinary people can benefit from just a little basic survival training.

A human can survive over a month without food.

He had shelter (his car), fuel (if her hadn't burnt it all off so quickly), and was on a road. A really bad decision cost him his life. A sad day for him and his family.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

spicyapple said:


> They've been waiting for 7 days or so. I wouldn't know what I would do in his situation, but it was dire enough that he took his chances. Unfortunately, from where they were stranded, the possibility of finding help was very slim.


So, explain to me how they found his wife and children who waited in the vehicle then? Had he waited, he too would have been alive today.


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## overkill (May 15, 2005)

Very sad to hear the news today about him. May he rest in peace. My condolences to his family at this very difficult time.


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## VNJ85 (Feb 24, 2006)

did he freeze to death? what were the weather conditions?


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## overkill (May 15, 2005)

VNJ85 said:


> did he freeze to death? what were the weather conditions?


Nothing confirmed yet since they have to perform the autopsy first. The temperatures did drop below freezing at night during the ordeal. If he was leaving a trail of clothes with the extra pieces he wore when he left the care, his chances would have diminished much faster.


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

Most likely exposure and hypothermia did him in.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

guytoronto said:


> Most likely exposure and hypothermia did him in.


i don't understand the supposed trail of clothes he left
taking off clothing like a trail of bread crumbs, especially with cold weather?


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

SINC said:


> So, explain to me how they found his wife and children who waited in the vehicle then? Had he waited, he too would have been alive today.


Rule number one for being stranded or lost is to stay in the same place.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> i don't understand the supposed trail of clothes he left
> taking off clothing like a trail of bread crumbs, especially with cold weather?


A symptom of hypothermia is hallucinating that you are too hot, thus shedding clothes.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Can we quit doing backseat autopsies please? A guy's lost his life, give it a break...


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

dona83 said:


> Can we quit doing backseat autopsies please? A guy's lost his life, give it a break...


Oh really? As you get older son, you will realize that one way of expressing grief is to talk it out with friends and family. 

Give us a break.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

SINC said:


> A symptom of hypothermia is hallucinating that you are too hot, thus shedding clothes.


i never knew that


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## overkill (May 15, 2005)

I read this morning that the wife and kids were beginning their own trek away from the car when rescuers spotted the umbrella she was waving when they flew over top of them. They could have ended up in trouble also.


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## overkill (May 15, 2005)

SINC said:


> Oh really? As you get older son, you will realize that one way of expressing grief is to talk it out with friends and family.


I couldn't agree more with you Sinc.


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

Apparently, as your body wears itself down through exhaustion and hunger, it tries to cool itself. A cooler body will survive longer.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

guytoronto said:


> Apparently, as your body wears itself down through exhaustion and hunger, it tries to cool itself. A cooler body will survive longer.


never knew that either


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## modsuperstar (Nov 23, 2004)

guytoronto said:


> This goes to show how ordinary people can benefit from just a little basic survival training.
> 
> A human can survive over a month without food.
> 
> He had shelter (his car), fuel (if her hadn't burnt it all off so quickly), and was on a road. A really bad decision cost him his life. A sad day for him and his family.


That's so easy to say in hindsight. I don't think anyone when in an emergency situation really plans on being stranded for 9 days. The fact the gas lasted 3 days was pretty good conservation from my point of view. The part I find amazing is how people can be stranded for that long of a time in modern North America. It just shows that even though cities keep expanding, there are still lots of places for this kind of thing to happen.


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## miguelsanchez (Feb 1, 2005)

What I don't understand is how they drove far enough on this desolate mountain road for the car to actually become stuck. The road is not plowed in winter, and has probably seen a few snowfalls already. Why didn't they turn around when the conditions became too bad for driving?

They obviously had enough fuel to make it to where they were going. Why couldn't they just dig the car out, even if it was just with their hands? Why didn't they use their mobile phone to call for help, assuming there is service in the area? Apparently, the search team tracked down their mobile phone and that's how the family was found.

So many questions.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

I'm just more talking about "he wouldn't have died if..." posts, well he did die. SINC, I agree talking about it is good -- his life, his accomplishments, the very fact that his death is tragic, life cut too short, what his wife and daughters may be going through. The what ifs just makes the wounds of the heart bigger. It's like calling his wife and tell her that it's her fault for not stopping her husband from trekking out if any of us wanted to speculate that way. The grieving process is already sad enough, don't aggrevate it by playing the blame game. He trekked out looking for help for his family and lost his life due to hypothermia or what not. That's it.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

dona83 said:


> I'm just more talking about "he wouldn't have died if..." posts, well he did die. SINC, I agree talking about it is good -- his life, his accomplishments, the very fact that his death is tragic, life cut too short, what his wife and daughters may be going through. The what ifs just makes the wounds of the heart bigger. It's like calling his wife and tell her that it's her fault for not stopping her husband from trekking out if any of us wanted to speculate that way. The grieving process is already sad enough, don't aggrevate it by playing the blame game. He trekked out looking for help for his family and lost his life due to hypothermia or what not. That's it.


Talking about it reminds people of what they should do when they are lost. It's common knowledge that you don't go wandering off looking for help. It's got nothing to do with blame and everything to do with reality. He and his wife obviously didn't know what to do in that situation. 

It's not like she reads the boards on ehMac.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Vandave said:


> Talking about it reminds people of what they should do when they are lost. It's common knowledge that you don't go wandering off looking for help. It's got nothing to do with blame and everything to do with reality. He and his wife obviously didn't know what to do in that situation.
> 
> It's not like she reads the boards on ehMac.


but maybe the next stranded ehmacer does


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Sorry, call me young or whatever, I just don't get it...


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> but maybe the next stranded ehmacer does


Welcome to the 21st century. The internet allows people to express all sorts of opinions. If you don't want to hear it or read it, then don't.


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

dona83 said:


> I'm just more talking about "he wouldn't have died if..." posts, well he did die.


Yes he did. When people die, it is smart to look at how they died, so that we avoid the outcome. Learn from history.



dona83 said:


> SINC, I agree talking about it is good -- his life, his accomplishments, the very fact that his death is tragic, life cut too short, what his wife and daughters may be going through. The what ifs just makes the wounds of the heart bigger.


How so? My heart doesn't hurt at all. Every day people die all over the world. Today in Iraq and Afghanistan, many people will die because of conflict. While it is regrettable that James Kim died, I'm not crying over it.



dona83 said:


> It's like calling his wife and tell her that it's her fault for not stopping her husband from trekking out if any of us wanted to speculate that way. The grieving process is already sad enough, don't aggrevate it by playing the blame game.


What a ridiculous assertion. Talking about how people died is nothing like calling up the victim's wife. Get some perspective.



dona83 said:


> He trekked out looking for help for his family and lost his life due to hypothermia or what not. That's it.


So we should just leave it at that?

Investigating the reasons people die is one of the reasons you and I may live into our 80s or 90s.

Cures for polio, smallpox, or scurvy would never have been discovered without people ask why and how we die.

Do we just accept that people die in wars, or do we learn form the experience and try to prevent such things in the future?

A few days ago, a woman threw her child onto the 401, and then jumped herself. We NEED to find out what happened, why she did this. We just don't say "it's regrettable" then move on.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Thanks GuyToronto, although I read that kicking and screaming, thank you. It gave me a lot of perspective.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Vandave said:


> Welcome to the 21st century. The internet allows people to express all sorts of opinions. If you don't want to hear it or read it, then don't.


i am in favour of discussing this issues and my point was, for those hard of reading, that maybe the next ehmacer who gets stranded will recall this thread and NOT leave their vehicle


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

apparently Kim walked 16 miles before succumbing to hypothermia

CNN special on the Paula Zahn show about the Kims' ordeal


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> apparently Kim walked 16 miles before succumbing to hypothermia
> 
> CNN special on the Paula Zahn show about the Kims' ordeal


Only 16 miles!
Ouch!
I've learned from this. I will never forget!


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I belong to an RV tips group based in Oregon. A member of that group who lives only 30 miles from that area, just last evening related this story on that thread:

"As the local papers stated, that road IS BLOCKED OFF during winter
time. Some vandals cut the lock on the thing that closes off the
road. They also went by the signs saying not to go there in winter. 
don't know about the road being shown as a good road....cuz it's
like a gravel road and bad even in the summer. My friends, here, tell
me they have been on it during the summer and it should be a JEEP RUN."

Too bad he did not see those signs.


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## rhythms (Sep 24, 2003)

dona83 said:


> The what ifs just makes the wounds of the heart bigger.





guytoronto said:


> How so? My heart doesn't hurt at all. Every day people die all over the world. Today in Iraq and Afghanistan, many people will die because of conflict. While it is regrettable that James Kim died, I'm not crying over it.


How so? well, if you can empathize, then your heart might hurt. It depends how close you feel to James Kim. If he's just some guy, then, well, it's too bad, it's regrettable. But if you're a dad with kids and could picture yourself in that situation, well, I know my heart is a little heavier.

I agree that talking about it is good and necessary, I just wanted to say how it can also hurt to do so.

<rhetorical question>Does the sheer quantity of suffering and violence in the world desensitize us? Or are we simply acting out of a self-preservation instinct, and shut it out of our minds? Do we cry over anything anymore?</rhetorical question>


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> <rhetorical question>Does the sheer quantity of suffering and violence in the world desensitize us? Or are we simply acting out of a self-preservation instinct, and shut it out of our minds? Do we cry over anything anymore?</rhetorical question>


Oh I suggest it's a fair question.
Many studies show war and horror numbs the caring reflexes but up close we have deep seated responses to blood and tears ( see someone - genuinely cry close up on HD and often my eyes well up ).

I can tell pretty certainly that were the horrors of say Iraq or Afganistan more closely detailed many many more second thoughts would be pondered and foreign policies questioned.

In this case the real empathy has to be with mom and children and what a strong woman to keep them alive that long. :clap:

If the mis-adventure of this public a figure makes someone, even here, think twice about leaving known shelter.....then his death may have some future depth of meaning and caution and maybe a life saver for another family.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

MacDoc said:


> Oh I suggest it's a fair question.
> Many studies show war and horror numbs the caring reflexes but up close we have deep seated responses to blood and tears ( see someone - genuinely cry close up on HD and often my eyes well up ).


Some would say that is the admission of a real man. Any man who has not openly shed a tear for family or friend or the misfortune of others is no man at all in my mind. :clap:


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Ummm Sinc that would be human to do...gender neutral except for poor stunted males taught otherwise.

It's the difference between TV and theatre.


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