# TTC Strike (Merged)



## powerbooker (Mar 21, 2005)

*Ttc Strike?*

I'm sick and tired of TTC workers wanting to strike. Come on! YOU MAKE $20 - $25 an HOUR!!!! DRIVING A BUS or a TRAIN!!!! There are people in other countries that don't even make that in a year!! 
I honestly don't think that making $50 k a year is all that shabby. Teachers don't even make that much starting off!

They believe that just because a lot of people rely on them that they can take advantage of the system. I'm paying 100 bucks a month for a metro pass already!!! Others are paying $2.50 for a single ride!!

And one figures that the amount of money you are paid, you'd at least provide some sort of service.

No can do on that count!

For instance, this morning
I was an hour and a half late for work (which would acconut for 30 bucks taken from a TTC worker's pay cheque for those that are counting)

Basically, the situation panned out like this.

*7:15* get onto subway
*7:30* subway stops at chester station
*7:40* train still stopped at chester (NO REASON GIVEN OVER THE SPEAKER as to why!!!!)
*7:45* passengers told to leave train
*7:50* 2nd train arrives (people also leave that train) - chester station's platform is in complete chaos!!! (STILL NO REASON WHY!!!)
i then notice that the people from that second train are leaving through the stairs and i overhear someone saying that there will be a shuttle service to ossington outside
*7:55* mad dash to get outside to get to a bus at corner of danforth and chester
*8:10* first shuttle bus arrives - 3 people get on! a 4th person tries, but bus driver gets in a shouting match with them...person leaves bus...another person asks "how long will the next bus be?" bus driver says "GET OUT!" and closes the door
*8:20* TTC guy comes and tells everyone that subway trains are going again - mad dash to go to the subway station again...once everyone is at the station, some people start running back towards the buses because the people at the subway station say that the subways are still NOT running!
*8:30* everyone's just standing around, not knowing what to do (keep in mind this is 100's of people, all standing at the corner of chester and danforth
...FINALLY a ttc guy comes and tells everyone to go into the station because subways are running, and FINALLY the people at the station acknowledge that this is indeed true.
*8:35* first train comes (can't get on - too many people)
*8:40* second train comes (can't get on - too many people)
*8:50* third train comes (can't get on - too many people)
*9:00* fourth train comes (can't get on - too many people)
*9:10* train comes (FINALLY get on - pushed my way in - many appologies to those that I had to push)

needless to say, but all I ask for is a bit of information....why were there no announcements made over the PA system to those of us on the platform?

no wonder people are reluctant to take the TTC if they have a car. There's too much of a hassle really!

I also wonder if a TTC strike would mean that gas prices will finally top the $1 mark

great job TTC drivers!
that's extra 1% that your might get as a result of a strike will help pay for the added price in gas that you helped to increase!

what a wonderful situation to be in!

and in the end, i STILL DON'T KNOW WHY the train stopped!!

does anyone know what the problem was??


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## depmode101 (Sep 4, 2002)

no strike till monday at least


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

It's a basically a monopoly Powerbooker they know it and they can do anything they want. The TTC is the worst transit system I've ever been on it's slow and the workers have absolutely no costumer service skills whatsoever. 

I felt the same as you did back in '90 back then I had to take the TTC I just couldn't afford a car and taking my 1000.00 mountain bike downtown was just asking for it to be stollen but I made myself a promise that as soon as I could afford a car or my job warranted it that I would buy one. In '98 I finally had enough with the TTC and bought a daily driver the 2 hour bus drive to work and constant crappy TTC scheduling made me late more often than not 

Example of TTC crappy service: last night going north on Dufferin there were 4 buses in a row this would piss me off royally if I just happened to miss that convoy of buses.

My wife doesn't take the TTC anymore either it was easier re-arraging our work schedules so I could drop her off and pick her up at work.

Laterz


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

"back to work legislation"

4 words that scare the sh*t out of the TTC union, and they know it
public/riders will have no sympathy for TTC strikers and gov't knows that nobody but TTC strikers will be pissed at using "back to work legislation"

Howard Moscoe needs to play this game with some kohones
He's acting like he's running for office

C'mon Howard, show some b*lls !


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## miguelsanchez (Feb 1, 2005)

powerbooker, when an incident like that happens you should record the bus serial number and report the driver to ttc management. 

i think one of the biggest mistakes that the ttc made was replacing the trolley busses with streetcars. streetcars cost more, both initially and for maintenance, they're noisier (especially with the vibrations that you can feel through the ground as they pass by), they block the left lane when they stop to pick up passengers, and the right lane, because cars are required to stop as well. they also block the track when one breaks down. with trolleys, they were quiet, moved to/stayed in the right hand lane, could be maneuvered around other stalled busses, and cost much less and there was no track maintenance (witness the track reconstruction that's going on downtown). 

the other thing that bugs me is the difficulty in getting new lines built. paris added a new line in 1998 (11km 8 stations) at a cost of about 1 billion euro, and it's still expanding. moscow added 100km over 20 years. i don't understand what's holding us back from expanding our subway. i know we've added the sheppard line (4 stations?) but it took years of politicking and arguments about where to build it and who was going to pay for it etc. what ever happened to the york university connection? the eglinton west line?


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## powerbooker (Mar 21, 2005)

miguelsanchez said:


> i know we've added the sheppard line (4 stations?) but it took years of politicking and arguments about where to build it and who was going to pay for it etc. what ever happened to the york university connection? the eglinton west line?


i hear you on that one! the sheppard line cost us billions!!!

why the heck did they decide to build the sheppard line before they built a york university line anyway?

was it because of strong political backing from the cadillacfairview group to have a subway that passes through fairview mall? i'm sure there was some behind the scenes payoffs going there...

i even hear that that line is losing money...and LOTS of it...

i would figure that a line that extends the bloor line from kipling to york university would have been more sustainble, and would actually increase ridership...

i just remember going to london and paris last summer, and i was amazed at how efficient their subway system was over there...even with the amount of people that take it...you would think that it would be bogged down...but no, not one delay...

same deal with the 407, they spend billions of dollars of tax payers' money then they sell it off when it finally becomes profitable!!!

also, seeing as how i am from markham, i would say it's safe to assume that a large percentage of people who actually drive come from the north where there is no ttc...if they can somehow expand the ttc coverage or implement a better transfer system (where you don't have to pay an additional fare to ride york region transit) then they would have fewer cars on the road...

i have never once taken markham transit, as it takes half an hour for a bus to even arrive, and i have to pay twice the amount if i want to get downtown...

how do you offset increasing gas prices???

first you expand the coverage of your public transit system
which will increase ridership and thus, increase the cash flow
and most importantly, increase the service and frequency of the buses and trains.
a better TTC means more people would be willing to take public transit, and save money on gas.


but then who's to say that ttc workers won't demand 30 bucks an hour, if that happens!


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> C'mon Howard, show some b*lls !


That's not about to happen I live in his riding and it took 7 months to resurface the street I live on 2 years ago, I called his office up pissed off as hell to find out WTF and for some reason a week later the road was finnally finished. TO what a friggin dump I can't wait to buy a house out of here maybe to a city that the taxes actually do something. 

Laterz


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

powerbooker said:


> i hear you on that one! the sheppard line cost us billions!!!
> 
> why the heck did they decide to build the sheppard line before they built a york university line anyway?
> 
> ...


I hear you if they would've built the Eglinton line like they were talking there might be a good chance that I would ride it a few times a week but it sux to see how crammed the buses are on Eglinton when they could have built the subway line by now and the buses could have moved to other routes to where they might be needed.

My parents went to Paris back in 2002 and couldn't believe how efficient there Public Transportation is and on there return all they said was "the TTC should be like that".

Laterz


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Take note here, all of you who are always claiming that "public transportation is the way of the future".

Sure...but not if it is controlled by Big Labour.  

Want a certain recipie for total chaos? Persuade everyone to abandon their personal vehicles and get them to all use public transportation. Every single day. For everything. Then make sure that said public transportation system is completely manned and run by a monolithic union or two.

Then watch what happens.


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

Want a recipe for total chaos? Cover half the city with freeways to accommodate all those extra vehicles and fill it up with SUVs, spewing toxins, while they wait in the big parking lot that any new freeways quickly become. Then double the price of the fossil fuels these cars require.

Transit should be considered an essential service. Disputes should be handled by fair, impartial, binding arbitration.

By the way, the last time I regularly rode the TTC was in '94 and I had nothing but admiration for it when I compared it to Vancouver's crappy system. I think it's probably overburdened and lagging behind demand for the same reason many systems are. Politicians are afraid to spend the large amounts of capital required, because the public is divided on their desire to see that money spent. Wait until the price of gas goes through the roof and you'll see many of these same people whining that government should have had a good system in place.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I didn't say that mass transit isn't a good idea GA.

I simply noted that mass transit that operates in the absence of any other alternative, and that is manned and staffed by Big Labour is a recipie for certain disaster.

Seems that some of the previous posters on this thread might tend to agree with me on this one.


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

And I said that the problem of strikes can be mitigated.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

ttc recognizes that NOBODY will be on their side if they go on strike and the ont. prov. liberals legislate them back to work

if they go on strike, it will be a huge mistake on their part, cause then the province will be holding all the cards

who's gonna call their MPP to complain that the TTC workers were legislated back to work? (excepting TTC workers and their direct families)

TTC should be declared an essential service and binding arbitration should be put into place so that the people aren't held hostage by either group

and by the way, did i mention that Howard Moscoe should "grow a pair?"
geez, he seems far to quiet and calm for a city about to explode with car traffic


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

Last time I took the TTC was just before they went on strike in 1999. I had been a daily rider for about 10 years at that point, and this was my third strike.

I had, however, finally obtained my driver's license by then, and much to my surprise, my commute by car--city streets only, strike-aggravated rush-hour traffic, going from the NE corner of North York to the SW corner of Toronto--took somewhere between 1/2 to 1/3 the time. (45 minutes vs. 1.5-2 hours.) Later, I took the DVP/Gardiner--commute took 20-30 minutes. A savings of up to 3 hours of my time per day. I'm on an unofficial TTC boycott now.

So GA, if this is impressive compared to Vancouver, remind me not to take transit in Vancouver. 

That said, if you live downtown and can rely exclusively on the subway, it's not too bad. But where I live, it takes about as long to take the bus to the subway as it does to drive downtown. 

Parking and gas costs vs. a metropass and hours of my time, and I still come out ahead. (Let's not even get into the comfort of being in my car vs. a crowded bus.) It's not the environmentally-conscious choice and future generations may curse me for it, but I have to live in this moment too.


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

Building transit is a chicken and egg thing. If the infrastructure isn't there or is inconvenient people won't use it. If there isn't a demand it doesn't get built or service gets cut back. I think that a far sighted approach says "Build it now for the future". Especially with looming issues of global warming and oil shortages.

Funny how the idea of building for the future is often applied to new freeways and bridges, even though these quickly become parking lots, yet when new mass transit it proposed the politicians mostly shrink from making a decision. Blacktop politics still works well and many of the folks who have no choice but transit are part of marginalized groups that hold little political clout. Add to this the fact that private autos are still subsidized by thousands of dollars each, yet many transit systems are expected to be covering their costs through the farebox.

People don't use transit out of the goodness of their hearts, to help protect the environment. They use it if it is a better solution. Sonal, if transit isn't available to you in a way that works, I would be asking why.

I used the TTC mainly within Toronto proper (or what used to be Toronto proper before it got supersized), so it was likely easier than from North York to Scarborough or wherever. The first summer I worked in TO, I drove my car out from BC, thinking that I would use it to get around the way I had in Vancouver. When I realized that it actually took me longer to get somewhere and cost me more if I added in downtown parking, I left it parked and used streetcars and subway.

There was a transit strike a few years ago in Vancouver and it went on for months. Auto use is so universal there that the city still kept humming along, with the poor and students taking the brunt of it. It shouldn't have been allowed to happen.

A few days ago, I took a bus from downtown Vancouver all the way south of the city to catch the ferry to the Gulf Islands. Something that infuriated me was the fact that the bus I was on got stuck in traffic for 20 minutes because of road construction. I was worried that I wasn't going to make my connection. Hordes of single drivers in cars were holding up many full busloads of people. 

If it was up to me there would be special bus-only lanes everywhere, so that those using transit didn't have to wait behind a line of SUVs. Actually if it was up to me there would have been a mass transit line built going south from Vancouver to the Airport and beyond, when it was first proposed in the '80s. Generations of politicians have waffled on the issue for decades, knuckling under to pressure from NIMBYs and SUV driving neo-cons who wanted to pay less taxes so they could have more to spend on their personal car toys. They're finally building something now, only because of the 2010 games, but the money spent will unfortunately hobble other expenditures for the current transit system. Meanwhile our brain-damaged right-wing provincial government is proposing carving up neighbourhoods and parkland to build more freeways and bridges. Somehow the money for that is always easy to find.


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## autopilot (Dec 2, 2004)

most here know how i feel about the ttc. i live in midtown and take public transit to richmond hill every day for work. $41 a week for my gta pass that is a hassle to have to buy every week from a handful of stations only.

i will most likely have my own car at the end of the month, and if my sources are correct, i will pay less for a car through the employee lease program than i would for my bus pass. gas prices do not bother me one bit.

let em strike; i can borrow a press car from work. or use up sick days. whatever.


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## enaj (Aug 26, 2004)

Holding the citizens of Toronto hostage...


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Just imagine for a moment what would happen if there were no alternatives to public transit? What would it be like if mass transit were the ONLY way you could get around (this is a dream scenario for some of our more whacky leftish types, I should note).

No other alternative. None. Zip. Just mass transit and their huge unions to rely upon for all of our needs. 

I'm betting that GA's firm assertion that "strikes could be mitigated" in such a monopolistic situation would soon be exposed as laughably naieve.

And we'd ALL be walking.  

Mass transit? By all means!

Mass transit that is held in the iron grip of Big Unions? 

No way! A disaster just waiting to happen. Ask anyone who's had to deal with a prolonged transit strike and they'll tell you the very same thing.

Then ask them what they think would happen if there was NO alternative to mass transit when one of these sudden work stoppages occurred.

Case closed.


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

I repeat again, for Mr. MacNutt:



me said:


> Transit should be considered an essential service. Disputes should be handled by fair, impartial, binding arbitration.


Case closed.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

A union that cannot strike and does not have the power to "withdraw it's services to get what it's members demand" is not much of a union.

So why have them at all? Especially in such an essential service? It's not like the municipal governments are going to revert to 19th century coal mine labour practices the second the unions release their iron grip, after all.

Decent pay and a sustainable benefits package that reflects both the level of the individual worker and their productivity. Floor sweepers and ticket takers do not automatically qualify for massive paychecks, no more than they do out in the real world.

Announce that the transit system unions will be decertified and that workers with a poor record will be given an early retirement package. Then open up the labour rolls to anyone who wants a good job that has a real paycheck attached to it...and watch the long lineups form outside the hiring offices.

And say goodbye to transit strikes. Forever.

That's the only way it will ever work.


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

MacNutt said:


> A union that cannot strike and does not have the power to "withdraw it's services to get what it's members demand" is not much of a union.


Tell that to the police and firefighters.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Yes. And the teachers too. All of these are essential services and none should have ever been unionised.

As we progress away from the failed old ways of the left and move forward, I suspect that most of these essential jobs (that were never unionised in the past BTW) will toss off the tired old idea of unions. That stuff is yesterday's news.

Unions are dying in both membership and in penetration into the workforce every single day, in pretty much every single country. It's only a matter of time before we Canadians finally do away with this nonsense in essential services as well.

Watch and see.


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## smilecentral (Jan 27, 2005)

The potential for a strike has me worried. Big time.

I'm a medical student at U of T. I live in North York because I found a nice, fairly large apartment for a not TOO ridiculous price (moving here for school from outside T.O. and finding ANY housing that wasn't the size of a closet or didn't cost an arm and a leg was hard enough, but that's another thread....). I take the TTC to school each day, and with my walk to the subway, it's 1 hour each way. That's fine, most of the time it doesn't bother me.

If there is a strike however, I have no clue what to do. It's not like I can miss classes - sheesh, the work load is hard enough as it is! Plus, I'm expected to go to Sunnybrook hospital several times a week for clinical parts of our program (for those of you unfamiliar with Toronto - it's not downtown, but not really near where I live either - it's about halfway home for me from downtown). Mercifully there will be extra shuttles running from downtown to the hospital, but then how do I get home from there? I do have a car, but it's far to expensive to drive to school: gas+parking (which will evaporate even more if there is a strike) = way too much money. It's not like I'm rolling in cash here. My word, my tuition is a joke (but let's not get on that one). Even though my Metropass is a disgusting $100 per month, for all the shuttling I need to do around the city, it's much cheaper to take the TTC.

The TTC should NOT be allowed to strike. It's essential and that is that. How much money would the city lose each day if it strikes? I imagine it's a ton. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Precisely. These are essential services and, like the police, firemen, doctors and teachers, they have NO need of a union. All of the above a very well paid and we need to know that they will NOT be able to hold us all hostage every time they decide they want an increase in that pay.

Or rather...every time their crooked union bosses decide this for them because they want a new Lear jet.  

Dump the unions in all the essential services. This is crucial.

Or suffer with the inevitable results of what monopolistic unions will do once they have you by the short and curlies. Your choice.


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## gastonbuffet (Sep 23, 2004)

It's on baby!!!!!!!
come monday, i'm screwed!!!!!
anybody want to buy my Metropass?

Honest, i would love to drive a bus , for a month at least. i think i'm going to apply for a driver position, and if i'm lucky, i can also get into fights with unionized drivers, would love to kick some canadian ass!!!!!!


oooopppss


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## dru (Nov 17, 2003)

*Ttc Is Going On Strike!*

its official... as of monday morning 4am... the ttc will NOT be running


there ya go!


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## kevs~just kevs (Mar 21, 2005)

*TTC Strike*

So i hear it's happened... TTC is on strike... anyone else gonna be up the creek without a padel or in this case a 45 min drive from work with no transportation by this strike? I know I will...


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## enaj (Aug 26, 2004)

High speed at home and a laptop is my answer to the TTC strike. 
I'll be sitting at home watching the congestion Monday morning. (I was a designated driver for the last strike - took me 2 hours to get from Avenue and Lawrence to Bay and Queen.
Yeeesh!


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## Chealion (Jan 16, 2001)

All 3 threads about the TTC Strike have now been merged into one thread.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

Man, did I time my resignation or what?!


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

*Sorry to derail but...*

# 1:


> Unions are dying in both membership and in penetration into the workforce every single day, in pretty much every single country. It's only a matter of time before we Canadians finally do away with this nonsense in essential services as well.
> 
> Watch and see.


#2:


> Dump the unions in all the essential services. This is crucial.
> 
> Or suffer with the inevitable results of what monopolistic unions will do once they have you by the short and curlies. Your choice.


One is written as 'fact' and one as a desperate warning. Which is it?




> Or rather...every time their crooked union bosses decide this for them because they want a new Lear jet.


 Puhleeease... Your brush is very wide and full of dramatic effect wise one.




> These are essential services and, like the police, firemen, doctors and teachers, they have NO need of a union. All of the above a very well paid


Well paid because of their union. Are there any police, firefighters, doctors and teachers out there who would like to expound on this?


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## autopilot (Dec 2, 2004)

whatever. i live in uptown, work in richmond hill, and work for a car company, so i'm all set up with a vehicle for the strike 

i would have bought my gta pass this evening. now i can put that $41 towards gas...

here's hoping (for me anyway) that they strike until late next week so i don't have to buy a pass anyway!


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## jonmon (Feb 15, 2002)

i took a risk buying my metropass, but i don't the strike will last very long
they'll realize they're not making any money being on strike


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## autopilot (Dec 2, 2004)

well, they're talking throughout the day. they may not strike at all, if they reach an agreement. i hate being caught in the middle like this. friday they announced a strike so that monday commuters could have a chance to prepare. they said no talking through the weekend. now, they're talking. wtf?

i may waste even more money this week having to put gas in the car PLUS still having to buy a weekly pass.

mad!!!!


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

autopilot said:


> well, they're talking throughout the day. they may not strike at all, if they reach an agreement. i hate being caught in the middle like this. friday they announced a strike so that monday commuters could have a chance to prepare. they said no talking through the weekend. now, they're talking. wtf?


They're just trying not to inconvenience you too much.


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## autopilot (Dec 2, 2004)

i'm not even the worst-off... a lot of people have rented cars or booked hotel rooms downtown already. what are they going to think if the strike is now averted at the 11th hour? will they be relieved, or pissed off at the false alarm and the wasted money and effort?


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

That would be an object lesson in not paying upfront when reserving.


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## autopilot (Dec 2, 2004)

the point i am TRYING in vain to make is this: we as ttc riders have no way to plan in advance. the strike may happen, it may not. all we can do is wake up tomorrow morning and see if they're running the services or not. so, we are inconvenienced no matter what happens at this stage.

this is why i and many others will not return to the ttc.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

autopilot said:


> the point i am TRYING in vain to make is this: we as ttc riders have no way to plan in advance. the strike may happen, it may not. all we can do is wake up tomorrow morning and see if they're running the services or not. so, we are inconvenienced no matter what happens at this stage.
> 
> this is why i and many others will not return to the ttc.


I was under the impression that you were going to leave the TTC anyways no matter whether or not there was a strike. 

The vast majority of TTC users are going to stay with the TTC because they don't have much of a choice. But, according to the Saturday Globe and Mail, quite a few riders are also supporting the union's strike bid.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

The strike has been called off. They reached a deal. Phew!!


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## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

tell me about it. Thank God.

but that would have made quite the photo gallery. Imagine what the DVP would have been like??

H!


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

used to be jwoodget said:


> The strike has been called off. They reached a deal. Phew!!



what did i tell you a few pages back?


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

The glacial DVP would have been the glacial DVP but even slower..... The only time the DVP actually moves at a decent pace is from 9 pm to 7 am or during holidays.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

i think a big contributor to the slowness of the DVP is its design
having it follow the ups and downs and left and right of the don valley make it much more difficult to keep a constant traffic flow

they should have evened and straightened it out a lot more

and we should follow montreal's example and not allow trucks on city expressways during rush hours

trucks cannot keep up to the changing eb and flow of traffic

ever see the gap between trucks on a upslope?


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

E.v.e.r.y. d.a.y........ 

Although I do like the curves


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## powerbooker (Mar 21, 2005)

*soooo...*

wonder how long it's gonna be before we hear ramblings about a monorail again  j/k

anyone know what the details of the new deal is?
do they each get 30 bucks an hour now??? free gas for a year for their own cars? plasma tv's for their buses? do they have a pension plan that can purchase the raptors/leafs away from the teachers pension and MLSE?

i hear it won't get approved until thursday, so there MIGHT still be a possibility of a strike. I guess if they see that they don't get a leer jet as part of the deal, they'll reject anyway...


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## autopilot (Dec 2, 2004)

IronMac said:


> I was under the impression that you were going to leave the TTC anyways no matter whether or not there was a strike.


true. i hate the ttc/public transit in general. if they can make a bus route that goes direct from my apartment to my office with no stops in between and no one else on board, then no problem. oh wait, that does exist: it's called personal transportation!



> The vast majority of TTC users are going to stay with the TTC because they don't have much of a choice.


hence why i'm riding them today: i have no choice. but i expect to break into the driving arena shortly. it's just the insurance issue that's been holding me hostage. once i have a choice, i choose driving. every time.



> But, according to the Saturday Globe and Mail, quite a few riders are also supporting the union's strike bid.


i would think the majority is not in favour of unions, but i could be wrong. i hate that they have the "strike play" as a bargaining tool. come on: employment laws today shoudl cover just about everybody. i have to prove myself for any pay raise i think i'm entitled to. and nobody forced anybody to work for the ttc. you don't want to work weekends or holidays? then quit, find an office job, whatever. take responsibility for your own job situation.

my $0.02


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Unions have NO place in essenitial services. NONE.

Just be glad that mass transit does NOT yet have a total monopoly on your choices for getting from a particular "A" to a particular "B".

If it ever does...and if it's manned by a giant Union....

Then watch out.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

MacNutt said:


> Just be glad that mass transit does NOT yet have a total monopoly on your choices for getting from a particular "A" to a particular "B".
> 
> If it ever does...and if it's manned by a giant Union....
> 
> Then watch out.


Or, even worse, by giant multinational corporations such as car companies. Many many years ago...post-WWII...the car companies decided to create a captive market for their goods. They conspired to destroy the public transit systems of many North American cities so as to take away people's choice in how to get from "A" to "B".

In Montreal, you can still find the remnants of the streetcar tracks down south of Beaver Hall Hill and La Gauchetiere.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Yeah..."multinationals" are the big boogey man. And the unions are actually the "good guys".

Odd that so many of the public-sector unions are actually the largest investors in those horrible "multi-nationals", isn't it?

Too funny. This crapola is leftoid propaganda from the distant past. But some people around here still seem to be clinging to it.

Hey, Ironmac...the sixties just called. They want their ideology back. Are you done with it yet?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"...the sixties just called. They want their ideology back. Are you done with it yet?" Ah, the ideology of the sixties -- peace, love, freedom, kindness, enlightenment and friendship. Yes, this is what we need once again.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

MacNutt said:


> Yeah..."multinationals" are the big boogey man. And the unions are actually the "good guys".
> 
> Too funny. This crapola is leftoid propaganda from the distant past. But some people around here still seem to be clinging to it.


I never said that the unions are the good guys...you're the one spouting off about how the unions are the big bogeyman...what with corrupt union bosses asking for Lear jets...LOL!

The idea of the auto companies conspiring to destroy public transit systems in the postwar years is one of those times where I am actually incorrect. I decided to question my own contention and to see whether or not it was based on fact. Surprise surprise! To make a long story short it is not!

If MacNutt had used his time wisely by doing a Google search on the terms "car companies destroy public transit" and put up the links then he would have had the rare opportunity of proving me wrong and actually being able to bring up links to document it.  

Instead, he decided to go off on some sort of knee-jerk response about leftist propaganda. 

Life can be so ironic sometimes.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

was Enron run by "evil unions?"
how about Hollinger?

certain sectors should be declared essential services and be bound by binding arbitration

but i just wonder which one of us would oppose our union or ask for lower pay if were in the shoes of the teachers or TTC, etc?

be honest now


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