# New Canadian Retail Store



## Sayhey

Apple's own "Search Jobs" web page now lists a second location for a new Canadian Apple Store. It is in the long anticipated Eaton Centre in Toronto.


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## Jet_Star

Hey I just checked it out, and you're right they do have a listing for Eaton Centre.
I checked http://ifoapplestore.com/ and have not seen any news on that regard.


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## trump

this is the year of the eaton centre. First Abercrombie announces plans to open one of its stores and a HollisterCo. (open now ) then Apple busts out an announcement...this kicks ass!


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## trump

Jet_Star said:


> Hey I just checked it out, and you're right they do have a listing for Eaton Centre.
> I checked http://ifoapplestore.com/ and have not seen any news on that regard.


trippy, we just got quoted on that page


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## neptune

I can't help but comment. Apple has not busted out an announcement. I don't believe they've commented at all at this point. Clearly it's coming, based on the fact that it's an option on their job site, but it doesn't indicate that there are any jobs available and if you visit the retail page it only mentions Yorkdale. My 2¢.


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## Sayhey

neptune said:


> I can't help but comment. Apple has not busted out an announcement. I don't believe they've commented at all at this point. Clearly it's coming, based on the fact that it's an option on their job site, but it doesn't indicate that there are any jobs available and if you visit the retail page it only mentions Yorkdale. My 2¢.


Quite correct. Apple is not likely to comment until the week before a grand opening if past practice is a preview of what's to come. This is only the first step towards an opening, with job listings the next indication to watch for. Usually it takes anywhere from 5 to 8 months once the individual job listing appear. Of course, some sharp eyed residents of Toronto might give us all a better clue of the opening when things get close. The main thing is that we now know for sure that Apple is planning a new store in Eaton Centre.


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## iPetie

Yes, but will it be just another Apple store or a Canadian Flagship Store.


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## Sayhey

iPetie said:


> Yes, but will it be just another Apple store or a Canadian Flagship Store.


If it is a flagship or high-profile store it will be the first one to be located in a mall. All other such stores are of the "stand alone" variety.


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## trump

Sayhey said:


> If it is a flagship or high-profile store it will be the first one to be located in a mall. All other such stores are of the "stand alone" variety.


it's possible that they could build a flagship, as the Eaton Centre has the potential for it (Roots and H&M for example). Though my gut feeling is that it'll be just like Yorkdale


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## gmark2000

Omigod. I'll be stalking the construction of this site too... LOL!


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## Bighead

Oh boy! Does it mean that we have to sleep on Yonge Street and get harassed by the homeless this time???


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## mac_geek

Geez... I can't even remember my spot # in line at the Yorkdale opening anymore.. was it #32?

I'll see you all in line again!


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## trump

Bighead said:


> Oh boy! Does it mean that we have to sleep on Yonge Street and get harassed by the homeless this time???


I plan on living amongst them in the weeks leading up to the grand opening. I'll gather research, tips, and strategies for living on the streets which will guarantee me a prime spot in line. Then, after my transformation into a homeless man is complete, and the store is open, I'll gladly walk in and spend $3000 on a computer.


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## DEWLine

Wonder if we can get them into the Sparks Street Mall here in Ottawa. Rideau Centre is just about full-up at the moment, and there are some openings on Sparks Street that could do with an Apple presence.

Or they could just finance the Mac Group's setting up shop there...which I'd personally appreciate.


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## mac_geek

DEWLine said:


> Wonder if we can get them into the Sparks Street Mall here in Ottawa. Rideau Centre is just about full-up at the moment, and there are some openings on Sparks Street that could do with an Apple presence.
> 
> Or they could just finance the Mac Group's setting up shop there...which I'd personally appreciate.


Keep on waiting.. I'm pretty sure Apple will target Vancouver and Montreal before getting to Ottawa. (I say this as an Ottawa U alumni..)


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## adagio

Looking forward to seeing the gang again. Had a GREAT time lining up last time thanks to all the wonderful people I met.
I haven't forgotten... I was #27.


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## mac_geek

adagio said:


> Looking forward to seeing the gang again. Had a GREAT time lining up last time thanks to all the wonderful people I met.
> I haven't forgotten... I was #27.


Right! If you were #27, then I was #26! Hey there!


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## CorSter

do i dare wait?

i'll probably come down an hour before and get in line this time, dont feel like wating for years again


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## NBiBooker

I just want an Apple Store in the Maritimes. 

Or a good reseller like Carbon? Maybe a Carbon Atlantic 

D.


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## Vexel

NBiBooker said:


> I just want an Apple Store in the Maritimes.
> 
> Or a good reseller like Carbon? Maybe a Carbon Atlantic
> 
> D.


 Amen!


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## apple=god

OMG funny story about a month ago i was in the apple store talking to one of the managers (as usual) and we were talking about the sucess of this apples store. She let me on a secret that another apple store in toronto was gonna open. She didn't tell me where but she said cloaser to downtown. Looks like this is it. Gonna BE AWESOME

i'm gonna be #1 in line for sure. 

P.S. anyone gonna go fot the midnight xbox 360 opening and which do u think will be bigger: futureshop, ebay or walmart?


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## adagio

Hi there #26 ! 

Thanks for making the time go by quickly. I almost didn't go as I had no one to go with. I'm sure glad I did and had a chance to meet up with some fantastic people.

See ya next time?


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## trump

so who wants to make some predictions on where it'll go? I'll be there tomorrow, so I can take a look see - my thoughts so far would place it near Banana Republic (top floor) because of the surrounding high-end stores, or near BeBe because of the high volume


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## najibs

ah so it makes sense now...the area blocked off, and all that contruction where the Rogers store in the 3rd floor used to be, right by the McDonald's. That section has been blocked off for months now, and I just noticed yesterday that the Rogers store will now be on the bottom floor next to Compusmart Express...


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## keymaker

DEWLine said:


> Wonder if we can get them into the Sparks Street Mall here in Ottawa. Rideau Centre is just about full-up at the moment, and there are some openings on Sparks Street that could do with an Apple presence.
> 
> Or they could just finance the Mac Group's setting up shop there...which I'd personally appreciate.



I'd like that too, but realistically i think edmonton(largest or 2nd largest mall in canada)/montreal and vancouver will get one b4 us.


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## Bighead

trump said:


> so who wants to make some predictions on where it'll go?


I say they are going to take over all the retail space currently used by Sears....

One floor for PowerMac, another for powerbooks, two floors for iPods,, plus a couple floors for accessories.

And this is my prediction.


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## Commodus

DEWLine said:


> Wonder if we can get them into the Sparks Street Mall here in Ottawa. Rideau Centre is just about full-up at the moment, and there are some openings on Sparks Street that could do with an Apple presence.
> 
> Or they could just finance the Mac Group's setting up shop there...which I'd personally appreciate.


I don't know about Sparks Street. It's not a bad place to be, but what happens when you buy a PowerMac and need to cart it away? There's not a whole lot of convenient parking in the area.

I have to admit that I'm biased, but I'd prefer that they take a spot in Place d'Orleans. It's a fairly nice mall (the interior is nicer than Rideau's, at least) and I know a spot or two has opened as of late.


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## CorSter

i predict.... a location on the top level next to indigo in the "Dead zone" with an enterance from the floor below.


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## gmark2000

A downtown location needs to be a streetside landmark.

Perhaps across the Dundas Square.










Here's an old picture with Eaton's in the Sears space.










I think that they should occupy this space where the Tower Records used to be.










This is the renovated building that London's flagship Regent Street location has.


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## andreww

I have always though that the old Toys"R"Us building directly across the street from the Eaton Centre fit in nicely with the model set by other flagship stores. Old Building, 2-floors, great location, etc. The building is still unoccupied, so maybe I'm right.


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## trump

andreww said:


> I have always though that the old Toys"R"Us building directly across the street from the Eaton Centre fit in nicely with the model set by other flagship stores. Old Building, 2-floors, great location, etc. The building is still unoccupied, so maybe I'm right.


Unfortunately it's not part of the Eaton Centre - which is where the store is going (though I do agree with you). The former tower records spot would be awesome, and possible since Coast Mountain Sports has been having trouble as of late


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## adagio

I sure hope I'm wrong but if Apple is putting a store in the Eaton Centre then it's not a flagship store. The only way that would happen would be if they somehow snagged a double layer fronting the street.

At the very least, I hope this place is larger than Yorkdale and has a theatre section. Those of you who've never experienced a true, full-blown store have been missing a treat.


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## DEWLine

Commodus said:


> I have to admit that I'm biased, but I'd prefer that they take a spot in Place d'Orleans. It's a fairly nice mall (the interior is nicer than Rideau's, at least) and I know a spot or two has opened as of late.


I think the one major opening that could have worked got swallowed up by HBC for their Zellers division. A bit of a pity, that. The space formerly used by Wal-Mart(good riddance to them) could have been divvied up between Apple and a few other outfits I'd like to see in Orleans. Like Wallack's, a local art supplies chain...


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## DEWLine

I swear, some parts of downtown Toronto's architecture are reminding me of movie versions of Gotham more and more every year.


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## audiodan

When is the store in the Eatons centre gonna open?


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## andreww

Is there something confirming an "eaton center" store?


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## neptune

Andrew,

If you go to www.apple.ca and go to the jobs section. pick other (not retail). filter your search to ontario and in the bottom left you'll see Apple Store Yorkdale and Apple Store Eaton Centre.


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## okcomputer

Vexel said:


> Amen!


http://www.terracon.nb.ca/halifax/index.html isn't too bad.


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## trump

well I just got back from the Eaton Centre, and I was able to gather two things. The most probably location currently is right at the Queen St. entrance, 3rd Floor, next to what is now Crabtree and Evelyn. There is A LOT of (newly?) vacated space there that's covered by white construction walls, and seems like a decent location. The only other spot would be the Coast Mountain Sports location - this would be absolutely insane. Extremely high profile, Regent St. style building, and would make for an awesome store. Let's hope for the ladder shall we?


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## RKM

Where in Uxbridge is Apple located?


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## gmark2000

trump said:


> well I just got back from the Eaton Centre... The only other spot would be the Coast Mountain Sports location - this would be absolutely insane. Extremely high profile, Regent St. style building, and would make for an awesome store.


I concur. The Forzani Group (Sportchek/Coast Mountain) probably would love to get out of this retail space into something cheaper in the mall. The Yonge and Queen streetfront would make this the ideal flagship location.










_My apologies for the crappy Photoshopping._

Here's a rare pic of Tower Records before it closed on October 7, 2001.


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## apple=god

how interesting... Yes i totally agree. I would love to see it there only it clearly states that it's ion the eaton centre mall. I think that the crab tree and eveleyn area sounds most probable. We'll just have to wait. Maybe i'll make a nicer version of ure apple store


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## gmark2000

apple=god said:


> I would love to see it there only it clearly states that it's in the eaton centre mall.


The Coast Mountain (former Tower Records) location IS in the mall. There is access to the store from inside on the lower level. The street level storefront is the main floor. All of this is part of the Eaton Centre.


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## MacGYVER

Ohhhhhhhhh this is getting exciting. It's like round two of the guess where the location of the next Apple Store will be . Are we going to get the inside scoop again with behind the scene pictures?


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## gmark2000

MacGYVER said:


> This is getting exciting... Are we going to get the inside scoop again with behind the scene pictures?


I'll try to be the social engineer as with the Yorkdale construction.  

I will guess at June 24, 2006 opening if they start construction in February on the Coast Mountain/Tower location.


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## apple=god

heres my apple store. i couldn't get the apple logos becuase theres no really big windows at this loacation. instead i put a rather playful shadow of an ipod ad on it. it's pretty bad, but i'm only 14.


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## gmark2000

Here's a couple kickers. The Forzani Group may want to relocate because of their financial troubles. They bought Nevada Bob's Golf and National Sports and lost lots of money due to the hockey strike and unseasonable weather.










The basement part of this Eaton Centre location is a sizeable 10,380 square feet. (Apple Store Yorkdale is 3,500 square feet).










Here is the street level layout.










All the flagship stores are pretty much over 20,000 square feet in retail space. So I think that this would rate highly for a flagship location.


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## adagio

Just my 2 cents. If indeed "Coast Mountain" is the location then I'd say we have ourselves a flagship store !!!! 
THAT is exactly the type of location Apple chooses. If this turns out to be the case then don't expect an opening before early next summer. A great deal more goes into a flagship than the simple thing we have at Yorkdale.


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## andreww

The location on the 3rd floor across from the mcdonalds seems to already be spoken for as the names of the new stores are painted on the drywall. Second Cup and several clothing retailers seem to be the new occupants, so the Sportcheck location seems to be the best bet right now.


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## andreww

BTW I work about 50 yards down the road and would be delighted if it went in the Sportcheck location!


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## gmark2000

2 Queen Street West is a Toronto Heritage Property since 1986.

It was built in 1895 as the Jamieson Building and was known as 184 Yonge Street. Originally the home of Jamieson's Clothiers. F.W. Woolworth's "five-and-dime" department store moved into the building in 1915 and several additions were made over the years. In 1980, after 65 years the store was closed, and in the 1980s, a $4 million restoration began with a façade encladding the building incorporating it into the Eaton Centre complex that was completed in 1977. The building was rezoned as 2 Queen Street West and houses a fitness facility on the fifth floor as well as offices.

Tower Records moved in the space in 1995 and closed in 2001. Coast Mountain Sports has been at this location since 2002 (Coast Mountain was acquired by Forzani in 2000).


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## adagio

Thanks for the historical info.

That would fit in nicely with other Apple flagship locations. I'm thinking of Soho in NYC which is located in an old post office building.


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## gmark2000

andreww said:


> Is there something confirming an "eaton center" store?


I'll have to admit that this was pretty hard to find.


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## 8127972

I guess this spells doom for any reseller near the Eaton Center. North Star for sure is screwed as they're right near the Eaton Center. CSC, Carbon and Vistek may have a reason to be concerned as well.


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## guytoronto

8127972 said:


> I guess this spells doom for any reseller near the Eaton Center. North Star for sure is screwed as they're right near the Eaton Center. CSC, Carbon and Vistek may have a reason to be concerned as well.


Any downtown store really. Vistek less so because they have a huge digital camera market. Definitely Carbon, CSC, Click On, CPUsed. All of those.

Too bad Apple doesn't realize they are slowly destroying their own market. Pro video, audio, graphics people don't want to shop at busy malls. They want to shop at their local dealer where they have a relationship. Somebody looking for a complete digital photography solution from camera to Aperture is not going to get any level of service from a 19-yo kid pushing iPods.

As Apple drives the niche resellers out of business, Pro users will have nowhere to turn for their needs.


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## gmark2000

You guys don't realize that most of the places you've mention cater to the corporate accounts which the Apple Store doesn't compete — it's a retail store.

If you are professional video, cinema, audio, new media user, you'll still shop at the same places as before because the Apple Store doesn't carry RAIDs, pro-audio tools, video converters etc... The Apple Store caters to everyday consumers and most importantly, "switchers", not Pro users.

At that, CSC's core product isn't Apple anymore. The ad agencies, design houses and production shops, and print houses won't be buying from the Apple Store.


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## 8127972

Carbon, CSC, and North Star all have retail arms. Granted Carbon and CSC have very good corporate groups (which is why they'll likely survive), AFAIK North Star and Click On don't so they are going to get killed by the Apple Store. More so North Star because they're right by the Eaton Center (and from what I see on this board, they don't have a very good reputation).


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## Tulse

I think Carbon can weather an Apple Store at Eaton's -- they're far enough east, in their own neighbourhood, and can grab enough local traffic from the area. They also have an excellent reputation. I live in Greektown, and I'd be inclined to go to Carbon rather than schlep all the way to Eaton's for most purchases, especially since Carbon seems to carry a lot more of the third party products than does the Apple Store.

North Star may very well be screwed. I feel sorry for the employees there, but honestly, the service I've had from them has been far less than "stellar". I won't be all that sad to see them go.


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## gmark2000

Actually Compusmart at Yonge and Richmond is the closest Apple reseller, but again Apple is not their core business (no pun intended).

You have to also remember that with margins on hardware being so low, that resellers with extensive service departments and on-site services do quite well. Because there are no repairs done at Apple Stores, just troubleshooting by Mac Geniuses.


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## lightbulb

> I live in Greektown, and I'd be inclined to go to Carbon rather than schlep all the way to Eaton's for most purchases


Maybe even closer is the CD-ROM store opposite the Big Carrot, they are now a Mac dealer. Somewhat limited stock but definitely a shop that counts on support from the neighborhood.


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## apple=god

it's all very enticing isn't it.


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## gmark2000

Hey... we're all just talking out of our asses now anyway. We have no idea when or where in the Eaton Centre this Apple Store will be...

In as much as the Apple staff are giggling at this thread now, they won't know either. Only some real estate people in San Mateo would be privy to the negotiations with Cadillac Fairview. From the information posted, Apple will wait until they get the space they want.

As an aside, despite being a century-old department store, doesn't the renovation to the Jamieson Building (2 Queen Street West) look pretty awful (kinda borg-like). I would hope that Apple would make it look nicer/classier.


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## trump

I was thinking that the other day....I was looking at it and it dawned on me how god-awful that teal blue square junk crap looks. What were they thinking? I mean that building would look fine, even better, without that crap


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## gmark2000

It's because Eatons owned the whole block except for the corner where Woolworths was. When they went ahead to build the Eaton Centre in the mid-70s they had to work around City Hall and the Trinity Church. The original plans in the 1960s was to tear down those buildings. By the time Woolworths moved out in 1980, it was almost a century old and bound to get a heritage designation. By that time, it was too late to tear down and it didn't match the Eaton Centre around it. The god-awful cladding was put in to try to blend-in. 

Nevertheless, it's a great location for a flagship, the retail epicenter of Toronto and Canada, equi-distant to the financial district, universities, government, design, fashion, entertainment, city hall, etc... and across from the largest and oldest department store in Canada.


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## ColBalt

I Don't know if any one suggested, But what about one of the two old stone building across the street form the Eaton Centre? They most likely were once banks and have fallen it to such despair. Apple should have looked at one of those places. The City might help with restoration.
I know the listing says "Eaton Centre". Just my two cents.


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## gmark2000

ColBalt said:


> I Don't know if any one suggested, But what about one of the two old stone building across the street form the Eaton Centre?












Yeah, I always thought that these were really cool buildings. I suppose that they might qualify, but doesn't Eaton Centre imply that whole block contained by Yonge/Dundas/Bay/Queen??










As another thought, there is the current expansion on the Northwest corner where the Ryerson Business School is going to be. Anyone scoped this area out? There's supposed to be retail there too.


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## 8127972

> Hey... we're all just talking out of our asses now anyway. We have no idea when or where in the Eaton Centre this Apple Store will be...
> 
> In as much as the Apple staff are giggling at this thread now, they won't know either. Only some real estate people in San Mateo would be privy to the negotiations with Cadillac Fairview. From the information posted, Apple will wait until they get the space they want.


Perhaps the store may be closer than you think. Keep in mind that Apple started posting jobs months before we had an actual location within the Yorkdale mall.

FYI, I did a search for the Eaton Center jobs and they aren't there anymore (or I'm missing something).


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## zarquon

8127972 said:


> FYI, I did a search for the Eaton Center jobs and they aren't there anymore (or I'm missing something).


It's there, Job opportunities, find jobs worldwide, then check the retail box, enter in Canada, Ontario and you'll see it.

Z.


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## trump

zarquon said:


> It's there, Job opportunities, find jobs worldwide, then check the retail box, enter in Canada, Ontario and you'll see it.
> 
> Z.


that picture is misleading though, as it's showing all Apple Jobs - so the listings for Ottawa and Markham (Apple HQ) are corporate positions.


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## zarquon

trump said:


> that picture is misleading though, as it's showing all Apple Jobs - so the listings for Ottawa and Markham (Apple HQ) are corporate positions.


If you deselect the "Apple Corperate" box.............

Z.


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## 8127972

Ahh! Thank you!


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## Jet_Star

gmark2000 said:


> As another thought, there is the current expansion on the Northwest corner where the Ryerson Business School is going to be. Anyone scoped this area out? There's supposed to be retail there too.


gmark, the architectural firm I work for designed the Eaton Centre and also that new Ryerson building. You are correct, there is supposed to be a retail area on the ground level I believe. When we were designing the new Yonge/Dundas entrance to the Eaton Centre, we knew well before hand that H&M was going to be occupying that space. But in the case of the new Ryerson building there is no indication as to who any of the occupants will be.


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## JoeCanadian

*I still think the most likely spot is*

on the 3rd level at the south end of the mall; across from McDonalds. 

There is a huge area there on the west side of the mall that has been boarded up, and if they straightened the hallway entrance in and out of the Cadillac Fairview tower ( to the west of the Centre on Queen ) and used the remaining space just north of that new hallway ( including the huge open space that is currently recessed from the main mall walkway), that would be one huge store.

The area at Queen and Yonge just looks to scummy for an Apple store in my opinion.


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## gmark2000

Jet_Star said:


> gmark, the architectural firm I work for designed the Eaton Centre and also that new Ryerson building. You are correct, there is supposed to be a retail area on the ground level I believe.


Is there 20-25,000 square feet of contiguous retail space on two levels? This would be the requirement for a flagship store.


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## harrydude

--


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## Jet_Star

Well if that's the case then it will not be opened till roughly around September of 2006 or later. That's when the building is sheduled for completion.

Just looking at the project info, there will be 2 levels of retail. Ground level and 1 below.


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## harrydude

pretty sure the lady said that it was to be on the basement level of the retail complex.


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## gmark2000

Interesting Harrison... I wouldn't have thought their customer service people to be able know of the retail leasing contracts from 10 months from now.

From this Dundas East view, you can see a "Best Buy" logo on the side of the building!


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## ender78

I would really have to question that location. Toronto is the most likely location for a 
flagship store, why build a second store so close to Yorkdale if it isnt a flagship store. Unless there is the possibility of two levels, or a very large one level location, Apple would be nuts to put such a store downtown. Yorkdale gets crowded to this day and it is in a poorer location. A small downtown store would be impractical.


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## 8127972

> I would really have to question that location. Toronto is the most likely location for a flagship store, why build a second store so close to Yorkdale if it isnt a flagship store. Unless there is the possibility of two levels, or a very large one level location, Apple would be nuts to put such a store downtown. Yorkdale gets crowded to this day and it is in a poorer location. A small downtown store would be impractical.


Agreed. But the Ryerson location makes sense to a degree as it is right downtown. Although Apple's pattern does fit a bi-level heritage buliding (which is what they have tended to do in the past) for a flagship store. Maybe they got some sort of sweet deal and decided to go here instead?

Another thing to consider....... Apple has been known to wait years for the perfect location for a flagship store.


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## gmark2000

ender78 said:


> Toronto is the most likely location for a flagship store, why build a second store so close to Yorkdale if it isnt a flagship store.


To clarify the "high-profile" and "flagship" designations to Apple:



ifoAppleStore said:


> Six stores are designated as "high-profile" stores, meaning their location, size and configuration designate them as very special. These stores are SoHo (NYC), North Michigan Avenue (Chicago), Ginza (Tokyo), Union Square (N. Calif.), Osaka (Japan) and Regent Street (London). Of these stores, three are designated as "flagship" stores:
> SoHo (New York City)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> North Michigan Avenue (Chicago)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and Union Square (San Franscisco).


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## CorSter

Black Plywood. If it's black, it's apple.


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## trump

https://jobs.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/Employment.woa/14/wo/rhKgjYj1voqDCe42WoHWl0/2.50

Apple has posted the jobs for the Eaton Centre store...didn't take long eh?


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## 8127972

Some observations:

- Seeing that there are jobs posted means that the downtown store is going to happen shortly. I'd say in the next six to seven months or so. Perhaps NOT in the Ryerson location. But that's just my opinion. 

- I guess it sucks to be North Star right about now as they will likely get killed by an Apple Store in that area. While they sell PC stuff, from my visit there last week the guy I spoke to knew nothing about PC's and it seems that they appear to be very Mac focused (at least they do from looking around the store). Maybe I should try visiting during the week to see if my experience is any different. My hunch is no, but maybe I'd be suprised. 

- CPUsed, Creative Technologies, and Computer Systems Center will likely live although their Apple sales will likely nosedive because of the Apple Store being close to them. Plus, they sell PC stuff and understand PC stuff as well so they have alternate revenue streams to fall back on. 

- Carbon will likely live because they have an excellent reputation and they are into product lines that the Apple Store isn't into. At least I think that they'll live. 

- To top it off, you can fully expect resellers to lose staff to the Apple Store. According to ifoapplestore.com, North Star lost two employees to the Apple Store. You gotta believe that other resellers lost staff as well. I guess that Apple isn't shy about poaching staff from it's resellers (not that I'm suprised by that). That will weaken the reseller community as a whole.

But hey, I could be totally off base here. Maybe resellers won't be affected by a downtown Apple store? Maybe one or two downtown T.O. resellers won't close? 

Who knows? I guess we'll find out shortly....


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## zarquon

8127972 said:


> - To top it off, you can fully expect resellers to lose staff to the Apple Store. According to ifoapplestore.com, North Star lost two employees to the Apple Store. You gotta believe that other resellers lost staff as well. *I guess that Apple isn't shy about poaching staff from it's resellers (not that I'm suprised by that). *That will weaken the reseller community as a whole.


Why would you say such a biased thing. If an employee of Carbon or any other store goes and applies for a job, what has Apple got to do with it??

Z.


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## Commodus

I have mixed feelings about the effect on Apple resellers.

The Canadian reseller market is very iffy. In Ottawa, the only dedicated Mac reseller I know of is The Mac Group, downtown. They're courteous enough, and I'd hate to see them go (unless their staff was absorbed into an Apple retail store), but they simply don't have the resources to handle a lot of customers or get stock as quickly as Apple itself can. Your other choices are Best Buy and CompuSmart, and I'll bet that neither of them will repair Macs or do special orders.

In cases like that, Apple is actually doing the local Mac community a service. A store with decent (and quick) stock, adequate repair resources, and a convenient location would go a long way towards increasing general Mac sales in large but underserved Canadian cities.


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## kevs~just kevs

anyone else sending in their CV?


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## 8127972

> Why would you say such a biased thing. If an employee of Carbon or any other store goes and applies for a job, what has Apple got to do with it??


I say that because I know that other computer companies that have resellers as well as a direct sales arm are EXTREMELY careful about hiring people away from resellers as they don't want to pi** off any of them. That's because they see their resellers as PARTNERS not COMPETITION. Apple appears to view things in reverse, and if they were smart they would at least appear not to want to poach from their reseller community. Plus it give resellers a reason not to sell Apple product or invest in promoting it since they're only going to screw you over by opening their own stores and stealing your staff. 

Maybe Apple isn't doing that, but that's the perception that they generate. And as they say, perception is reality. 




> anyone else sending in their CV?


Not me. Much as I'd like to work in an Apple Store, I suspect that I'm currently making more than they're willing to pay me.


----------



## JoeCanadian

*I wonder where the store location will be?*

The only large construction that I can see is on the south end on the 3rd level. The outside Queen and Yonge location still has that sports store in it. 

Also, I don't think this will be a flagship store. I think the Canadian stores are just seen as an extension of the US stores. Notice that the US Thanksgiving sale is happening this year at Yorkdale. To the best of my memory, there was no sale last year on the Canadian Online Store, but not that a retail store is open, it is atleast happening at Yorkdale.

Hopefully the store in the Eaton Centre is bigger than the Yorkdale store, but I doubt it will be a flagship store.


----------



## adagio

From reading the job postings I presume this new store will be much larger. There is going to be a theatre section.


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## 8127972

> From reading the job postings I presume this new store will be much larger. There is going to be a theatre section.



Hmmmmm...... That fits with a flagship store doesn't it?


----------



## trump

adagio said:


> From reading the job postings I presume this new store will be much larger. There is going to be a theatre section.


where does it say that?

EDIT: found it in the Mac Specialist listing:
Gives solution-based presentations in the in-store theater. Protects assets through loss prevention awareness.


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## gmark2000

Yes, but they do presentations in the Yorkdale store all the time. Obviously, not in a true theatre setting. This tidbit doesn't mean a thing.


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## adagio

Read the Creative description. They are not going to be giving pro classes standing up in the store like Yorkdale.

_•	Facilitate *paid-studio* and free learning workshops about a designated solution using Apple approved training techniques and materials _

Mark my words, though not a flagship store this WILL be a proper Apple store probably similar to the Waldon Galleria in Buffalo.


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## Jet_Star

gmark2000 said:


> Yes, but they do presentations in the Yorkdale store all the time. Obviously, not in a true theatre setting. This tidbit doesn't mean a thing.


Has anyone gone to any of those presentations? Everytime I go there the store is always so packed, its hard to believe that they would have any space to hold a presentation.


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## adagio

I tried watching a Keynote demo at Yorkdale. It was a waste of time. About a half dozen of us tried to squeeze as close as possible to the guy giving the demo on one of the machines up front. Maybe if you went when the store was empty it would be okay but when it's crowded it's too distracting.


----------



## trump

was at the Eaton Centre yesterday, and I've got some grim news. I'm changing my prediction of its location from the Coast Mountain Sports store to the area at the Queen St. entrance. There is an extremely wide, extremely deep storefront available on the top floor next to La Vie En Rose. While this will make for one helluva store (large enough for theater), I still want Coast Mountain


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## gmark2000

There is an indication that Sportchek is closing some stores and this Coast Mountain may close after Christmas/New Year's. Fairview Mall is closing it's Sportchek.

But the other tangent is that the new Ryerson retail space has great potential because of the Best Buy and Canadian Tire stores that'll be located there.


----------



## trump

gmark2000 said:


> There is an indication that Sportchek is closing some stores and this Coast Mountain may close after Christmas/New Year's. Fairview Mall is closing it's Sportchek.
> 
> But the other tangent is that the new Ryerson retail space has great potential because of the Best Buy and Canadian Tire stores that'll be located there.


I thought about that, but remember that Apple likes to have its stores close to other high-end retailers...the Ryerson location wouldn't provide this. However, both 3rd floor of Queen and the Coast Mountain areas would be within spitting distance of high-end stores. Besides, the traffic at the two latter locations will be much, much greater


----------



## .tony

8127972 said:


> Some observations:
> 
> - I guess it sucks to be North Star right about now as they will likely get killed by an Apple Store in that area. ...
> 
> - CPUsed, Creative Technologies, and Computer Systems Center will likely live although their Apple sales will likely nosedive because of the Apple Store being close to them. ...


I think it was only a matter of time before North Star closed its Elm Street location. That space seems to be cursed right after Elm St Computers shut its door.

I don't think CPUsed, CSC, or Creative need to worry. Traditionally Apple retail stores have not been "destination locations". Their main focus is to bring in PC users and switch them. So someone is not likely to make the trek all the way over to the Apple retail store just to buy a product (unless you're already a Mac customer). Its designed to bring in street traffic. Once they buy their product, they may choose to go somewhere local to have it serviced (CPUsed, CSC, etc.). From there they may enjoy shopping at those stores because they have a variety of PC and Apple stuff to choose from (remember, these are PC converts so they may still have PC needs). Personally, I'll continue shopping at CPUsed for the convenience of their free parking and good service. As for those stores loosing employees, there may be a spike at first but once they see that Apple doesn't pay as well and there isn't as much room to grow (unless you want to stay in retail), I think it'll even itself out.

Will there be a connection from the Eatons Centre to the new Ryerson building? Apple wants to go after the walk-thru traffic, and there may not be as much if the two are not connected.

I'm just glad to finally have an Abercrombie & Fitch this side of the border. Now, if only we can just get a Ben Sherman flagship store... 

Cheers,

.:. tony.


----------



## JoeCanadian

*Some details about the 3rd floor location*

Here's a picture taken earlier this week of the construction being done on the 3rd floor at the south end.










The enclosed space includes the section with the La Vie en Rose poster on it as well as the white painted part; right now it is all one space. This is a very large space; both in width ( looking at the number of stores on the 2nd level it is atleast 3 or 4 stores wide ) and in depth. This area of the mall used to be recessed back from the main walkway of the mall. If you go to the Eaton Centre website and look at the map of the mall, it still shows how this part of the 3rd floor used to look like. 

<a title="Toronto Eaton Centre Map" href="http://www.cadillacfairview.com/tec">Toronto Eaton Centre Map</a>

I was peaking in the doors of the above space and very little work has been done apart from cleaning things up. It is still one huge space that has not been subdivided in any way. 

I think this is currently the best bet for the store the location.


HTML:


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## ArtificiaLard

8127972 said:


> Some observations:
> ...To top it off, you can fully expect resellers to lose staff to the Apple Store. According to ifoapplestore.com, North Star lost two employees to the Apple Store...


This thread kind of past me by, but I'd like to give the whole story: two employees did in fact the leave the store but one was due to move back to Vancouver (and he has) in Sept. anyways while the other has actually come back to North Star (and we're glad for it!) 

Turnover seems to accelerate once the store gets off the ground - I don't believe a lot of the original floor staff from the opening of the Yorkdale store are actually still working there. I also know that other resellers have also hired ex-employees from the Apple store so it's not all one-way...


----------



## 8127972

> Turnover seems to accelerate once the store gets off the ground - I don't believe a lot of the original floor staff from the opening of the Yorkdale store are actually still working there. I also know that other resellers have also hired ex-employees from the Apple store so it's not all one-way...


That's an encouraging point. Everything I've ever heard about the Apple stores says that when they open up shop, you're pretty much screwed as a reseller. Are you implying (or outright saying) that the Yorkdale store is retention issues?


----------



## ArtificiaLard

_Full disclosure: I work at North Star Computer, an Apple retailer...._

I believe that the floor staff do get rotated more so than the smaller Apple retailers, but that's more a consequence of their strategy and size. Just as a Walmart would turnover more staff than the corner convenience store.

Because of that, I'm not sure if the question of 'retention issues' is even a valid one: they have an excellent training program and a great deal of applicants that want to work at the Apple store so the cup of eager Apple beavers is being filled as quickly as it's being drained so to speak.

As a point of interest, the two employees applied themselves for sales (floor positions) but the store actually called one of our senior employees in for an interview. I imagine they are being appropriately pragmatic: focusing on retaining staff in management positions while shuffling sales positions for maximum efficiency. In frank-speak I don't think they're afraid of letting people go if they're not meeting necessary targets or accomodating enough of the store's scheduling.


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## dona83

You know it really bugs me that you guys call it new Canadian store but it's just really a new Toronto store, so you Torontonians get your new Apple store and shove it where the sun don't shine.  No offense or anything. When Calgary, Edmonton, and Vancouver get a store then I might care.


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## 8127972

Thanks for your comments. Since you're a North Star employee, how do you feel about the "700 pound gorillia" opening up almost on your doorstep? I know I'd be freaking out right about now if I were in your shoes.


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## audiodan

Alright, when is the store opening? And, what is the exact address? I wanna do a map quest.


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## 8127972

> Alright, when is the store opening? And, what is the exact address? I wanna do a map quest.


Who knows at this point? We don't even have a firm location in the Eaton Center.


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## audiodan

Then whats the picture that JoeCanadian posted? Answer that! I am wondering, because I will get a new iPod in about a year, around what period of time will it open in? A day, a week, a month, half a year, a whole year, two years, five years... ect...


----------



## Chealion

audiodan said:


> Then whats the picture that JoeCanadian posted? Answer that! I am wondering, because I will get a new iPod in about a year, around what period of time will it open in? A day, a week, a month, half a year, a whole year, two years, five years... ect...


At this point everything is complete conjecture outside of that there should be one in the Eaton Center due to the misstep by Apple in showing that card in the the job offers portion of their web site.


----------



## gmark2000

audiodan said:


> Then whats the picture that JoeCanadian posted? Answer that!


A vacant retail space that may or may not be the location of the future Apple Store? 

Seriously, you need to re-read this thread. Anything is pure speculation at this point.

Apple needs a flagship presence in Toronto downtown and there are serious limitations in available real estate that will permit construction to what most of us view as the 'perfect' location.


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## gmark2000

ifoApplestore.com speculates that the Eaton Centre opening time-frame to be between March and May of 2006.

http://www.ifoapplestore.com/stores/timelines_2006.html

IMHO, I think this is very aggressive timelining. But then again, hiring has begun and they can't be too far in advance, right?


----------



## trump

dona83 said:


> You know it really bugs me that you guys call it new Canadian store but it's just really a new Toronto store, so you Torontonians get your new Apple store and shove it where the sun don't shine.  No offense or anything. When Calgary, Edmonton, and Vancouver get a store then I might care.


1. Last time I checked, I live in Canada - therefore a new Toronto store would be a new Canadian store.

2. Hollister. One of the greatest clothing stores out there, but where was their first Canadian location? Edmonton. Well wait, since the store is in Edmonton and not Toronto than it isn't their first Canadian store then is it? It would be their first Edmonton store. No offence, but until the Toronto store opens you can take your Hollister and shove it where the sun don't shine


----------



## JoeCanadian

audiodan said:


> Then whats the picture that JoeCanadian posted?


Just to be clear, I am only guessing where I think the new Toronto Apple Store will be located. This thread has been discussing three locations, 1) in the new Ryerson building, 2) the old Tower Records location, and 3) the south end of the 3rd floor. The last one is my guess.

Only time will tell which, if any of the above locations, are correct. But it is fun to guess!

JC


----------



## Tulse

If the store is to be opened by May, it would seem very doubtful that it would be where Coast Mountain currently is.


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## gmark2000

It's tough to guess! The fact that job postings have gone up accelerates the timing. Thus the suggested time frame on the ifoAppleStore site.

The Ryerson expansion is indeed well-connected to the existing mall. It's supposed to expand the size of retail by leaps and bounds and the signed anchor tenants so far are Canadian Tire and Best Buy. All the retail spaces have been leased but the official opening, at least for the Business School is for September 2006 occupancy.

The Coast Mountain/Tower Records location best suits the flagship/high profile designation. However, despite numerous store closings by the Forzani Group across Canada, they have not made any inkling to vacate this space. If they should vacate in January, there would not be enough time to renovate and refurbish this building in time for a May 2006 opening.

The large retail space on the 3rd floor strip of the Eaton Centre (adjacent to La Vie En Rose) is a very large traditional space that would not qualify as a flagship/high profile location as we would all hope that the next Eaton Centre location to be. Perhaps the strategy is not to open large, high profile stores in Canada? (That is Yorkdale is a small 4,000 square foot store). Nevertheless, with this site still in construction hoarding, this is the leading contender to be openable in the speculated timeframe.

Just my analysis...


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## cavemanatlarge

I do not care where it is exactly, but a flagship store would be really cool! I might even WANT to go to TO for a change. In fact, I might even go to TO just to be in line for the opening.

Of coarse I would prefer if they just put one in the Rideau Centre in downtown Ottawa. Here's to dreaming.

Caveman


----------



## ArtificiaLard

8127972 said:


> Thanks for your comments. Since you're a North Star employee, how do you feel about the "700 pound gorillia" opening up almost on your doorstep? I know I'd be freaking out right about now if I were in your shoes.


Yeah, it is a freak-out and make no mistake the Apple stores have a number of significant advantages that give them an advantage before they land. Really we just need to adapt to the competition like any other threat- I stil feel that we can offer unique niche products and services that the Apple store wouldn't have in addition to shifting more resources towards institutional accounts and services. It's the same difference in philosphy as any mom and pop store would face having a Walmart across the road. I initially wanted to work at the new Apple store but after input from some past employees and my experiences there, I just think working and being part of indie store is more fun.


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## gmark2000

You have to look at it as a consumer level competitor only.

The Chinese character for 'crisis' is a combination of that of 'danger' and 'opportunity'. You have to get out of the freak-out mindset.

In the very same mall, you have Indigo, Shoppers Drug Mart, The Source by Circuit City, soon to be Best Buy, and any number of smaller iPod resellers in your vicinity.

Since Apple Stores DO NOT SERVICE at their stores, you will have the unique opportunity to have all the warranty and other repair service arising from the growth of Apple product sold in the downtown core. 

The resultant 'halo' of Apple coolness just increases the amount of secondary customer base that you will be able to tap.

I don't think that your present retail hardware business surpasses the service side of your business. The retail margins on Apple hardware are razor thin anyway. Just look at the huge opportunity.


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## .tony

I don't think it'll be the Coast Mountain location. It would cost Apple a lot of money to do away with the current staircases, cover up the holes in the floor, and put in a glass staircase (assuming they would). Aside from money (which one would question if they'd actually spend in this country), it would take a lot of time and I doubt they would start the hiring process now.

As gmark2000 points out, if the Ryerson part connects to the Eatons Centre, then that would be my guess - if it'll get good foot traffic. But I'm guessing the size of the Yorkdale store, maybe a tad bigger.


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## 8127972

> Yeah, it is a freak-out and make no mistake the Apple stores have a number of significant advantages that give them an advantage before they land. Really we just need to adapt to the competition like any other threat- I stil feel that we can offer unique niche products and services that the Apple store wouldn't have in addition to shifting more resources towards institutional accounts and services.


Your points are vaild and I can see where you're coming from. I guess that everything i've heard about what happens to independent resellers when an Apple store shows up quite frankly would make me crap my pants if one opened up anywhere near me. That's part of the reason why I got out of the Apple channel (well, to be honest, that and the fact that I'm making more now than I would ever make at a reseller). I figured it is better to jump rather than be pushed if you know what I mean. 

Thanks for your insight.


----------



## andrewenterprise

audiodan said:


> Then whats the picture that JoeCanadian posted? Answer that! I am wondering, because I will get a new iPod in about a year, around what period of time will it open in? A day, a week, a month, half a year, a whole year, two years, five years... ect...


What exactly does buying a new iPod in 1 year have to do with this thread? 




OHHH, and by the way, JoeCanadian.. SWEET AVATAR


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## irod

Whoo Hoo, last time I was number 46. Lets see if I can beat that. Also the friend I brought with me is now a switcher. Maybe I can get a couple more.


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## audiodan

About when will it open?


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## gmark2000

audiodan said:


> About when will it open?


You are getting annoying... read the thread over again.


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## Jet_Star

well it seems from the plans I've seen that there might not be a direct connection from the Bay and Dundas Development (That's what it is being officially called right now) to The Eaton Centre. The job postings on apple.ca refer to it as the Eaton Centre store. 



gmark2000 said:


> But the other tangent is that the new Ryerson retail space has great potential because of the Best Buy and Canadian Tire stores that'll be located there.


Another retailer that will be in that space is Whole Foods Market.


----------



## kevs~just kevs

Has anyone been down to the Eaton Center recently? I thought they would have the logo panited on the outside of the construction space... maybe they are waiting to get closer to the opening date, but then again how certain is the march-may opening? like gmark said, it's all speculation at this point...


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## 8127972

My understanding is that Apple does not paint the boards covering the construction space black and add the Apple logo in until:

1. Construction has begun
2. There's a "floating date" for the stores opening. 

If we want a rough estimate, someone should dig up any threads on when the paint and the logos went on the Yorkdale location. The timelines as to when jobs got posted and the like are kind of similar. Perhaps we can use that as a rough guide?


----------



## mikehole

yup they started calling people for interviews.
i got a call a few days ago


----------



## kevs~just kevs

8127972 said:


> If we want a rough estimate, someone should dig up any threads on when the paint and the logos went on the Yorkdale location. The timelines as to when jobs got posted and the like are kind of similar. Perhaps we can use that as a rough guide?



I did a search and found posts around March1st-3rd that had pics of the painted logo... 

So if the Yorkdale Store opened May 30th was it? then that's about 3 months before the actual opening date. So if the store is going to open in March we should have more info pretty soon!


----------



## gmark2000

Last week ifoApplestore mused about the Eaton Centre opening.

http://www.ifoapplestore.com/stores/eaton_centre_1205.html

I don't think that the new Ryerson retail space is scheduled to open that soon.


----------



## Jet_Star

The academic portion of the building will be completed by the Fall, since that's when the school year begins, but I also believe the retail part will not be completed by then.

ifoApplestore must have misinterpreted the info on the Ryerson page:
"Ryerson's Faculty of Business Building at the southeast corner of Dundas and Bay Streets is expected to open September 2006."


----------



## gmark2000

Jet_Star said:


> Another retailer that will be in that space is Whole Foods Market.


No timeline for the Whole Foods Market opening in the Eaton Centre yet:
http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/stores/newstores.html


----------



## gmark2000

Jet_Star said:


> The academic portion of the building will be completed by the Fall, since that's when the school year begins, but I also believe the retail part will not be completed by then.


Hmmm... A quick call to the Eaton Centre had a person saying that the TEC Ryerson retail expansion is going to open this summer 2006.


----------



## kevs~just kevs

mikehole said:


> yup they started calling people for interviews.
> i got a call a few days ago



did they mention anything about a start date?


----------



## 8127972

IfoAppleStore.com has "allegeded" pictures of the Eaton Center location:

http://www.ifoapplestore.com/photos/eaton_possible.jpg


While it sort of makes sense from a size perspective, it already has La Senza's name on it. However, my wife points out that she has never seen a La Senza being 12,000 square feet. So perhaps there's something to it?


----------



## CompuRhythm78

I believe the La Senza sign is just an ad for their new store which is located right next to the construction and that opened before Christmas (just to the left of the picture). When peering through the doors in the construction hording, it looks as thought it is going to be all one space, demolition is done but construction hasn't started, there are no signs of what might be going in there.

I also noticed this past weekend that Sportscheck is having a 2 month long clearance sale. Perhaps this is the location after all!


----------



## Ohenri

I've so not followed this thread but, CompuRhythm78, welcome + nice AVATAR dude. 

Soundwave rawked!

H!


----------



## gmark2000

Just called Eaton Centre admin. The Apple Store will not be in the Ryerson expansion. The retail there opens in late summer with the Business School open for classes in September.


----------



## 8127972

> I also noticed this past weekend that Sportscheck is having a 2 month long clearance sale. Perhaps this is the location after all!.


Maybe. But there could be other factors at work:

- It may have something to do with the Forzani Group purchasing Di Marco Golf stores and rebranding them as Nevada Bob's Golf (ie: they need the cash). http://cnrp.ccnmatthews.com/client/forzani_group/releaseen.jsp?actionFor=575110&releaseSeq=1

- It may be simply that they have a lot of stock that they need to dump.

There could be a whole lot of reasons that are completely unrelated to the Apple store.


----------



## gmark2000

I just called Sport Chek at the Eaton Centre and the guy said that their lease is not up anytime soon. The Fairview Mall location closed because the lease was up and that it was too small (used to be a Collegiate Sports).


----------



## gmark2000

I just called the Marketing Director for Eaton Centre and as expected she said "officially we cannot comment on it", and "there has been no official announcement regarding an Apple Store in the Eaton Centre". Apple sure has some tight non-disclosure agreements, eh?


----------



## 8127972

gmark2000 said:


> I just called the Marketing Director for Eaton Centre and as expected she said "officially we cannot comment on it", and "there has been no official announcement regarding an Apple Store in the Eaton Centre". Apple sure has some tight non-disclosure agreements, eh?


It's the horde of lawyers that Apple employs that keeps people tight lipped. Although I don't see what the point is in this case. The location is on the Apple.ca website. So what possible harm is there to say "Yes, Apple plans to open a store here. However we can't tell you when or tell you the location."


----------



## lime.jus

I work in the construction industry and I have a copy of the plan drawings about ten feet away from me at this moment. I've drawn myself on there hugging an apple.


----------



## trump

lime.jus said:


> I work in the construction industry and I have a copy of the plan drawings about ten feet away from me at this moment. I've drawn myself on there hugging an apple.


one word, scan.


----------



## gmark2000

Too bad it's too much work to go to City Hall to get a copy of the building/demolition permits. All the answers are there waiting.


----------



## JoeCanadian

*Possible Yonge Street/Eaton Centre location is now available*

There is a new possibility for the store location. At the south end of the Eaton Centre, there is a street front location that is now vacant which is just north of the Sports store on the south corner. This location has a store front on Yonge Street, and it is between the Coastal Mountain Sports store, and the Baton Rouge restaurant. It has a huge space above the location where Apple could put their big glowing Apple logo. It also looks like this location may also have access to the mall.

In my opinion, this looks like the best location currently available; street front precense, huge space above the store entrance for the Apple logo, and possible mall access. 

If anyone else has more time to check this location out, please do so and let us know what you think.


----------



## trump

JoeCanadian said:


> There is a new possibility for the store location. At the south end of the Eaton Centre, there is a street front location that is now vacant which is just north of the Sports store on the south corner. This location has a store front on Yonge Street, and it is between the Coastal Mountain Sports store, and the Baton Rouge restaurant. It has a huge space above the location where Apple could put their big glowing Apple logo. It also looks like this location may also have access to the mall.
> 
> In my opinion, this looks like the best location currently available; street front precense, huge space above the store entrance for the Apple logo, and possible mall access.
> 
> If anyone else has more time to check this location out, please do so and let us know what you think.


earliest time I'll be able to will be Saturday unfortunately, anybody else or are we gonna hafta wait a few days?


----------



## gmark2000

JoeCanadian said:


> ... just north...between the Coastal Mountain Sports store, and the Baton Rouge restaurant. It has a huge space above the location where Apple could put their big glowing Apple logo. It also looks like this location may also have access to the mall.


Looks pretty small. It's half the size of Yorkdale (4,000 sq ft).










I guess it could be a different story if Esprit was moving out (not likely).

Anyhoo, you can sorta see the area to the right of my Tower/Coast Mountain mock-up.


----------



## lime.jus

From what I know it's going to be somewhere in that Ryerson expansion. I'm going to take a look at what I have later.


----------



## trump

lime.jus said:


> From what I know it's going to be somewhere in that Ryerson expansion. I'm going to take a look at what I have later.


damn, was hoping for it to be somewhere in the current mall


----------



## gmark2000

The Admin person I spoke to said with certainty that it WASN'T in the Ryerson expansion. The Ryerson retail space has 25,000 sq ft of new retail consisting of Whole Foods, Best Buy and Canadian Tire which is slated for a Summer opening.

The Apple Store construction should be starting soon for a May-June opening.


----------



## 8127972

gmark2000 said:


> The Admin person I spoke to said with certainty that it WASN'T in the Ryerson expansion. The Ryerson retail space has 25,000 sq ft of new retail consisting of Whole Foods, Best Buy and Canadian Tire which is slated for a Summer opening.
> 
> The Apple Store construction should be starting soon for a May-June opening.


That implies an existing location in the mall that is currently vacant. Besides the location next to La Senza, what else is open?


----------



## trump

8127972 said:


> That implies an existing location in the mall that is currently vacant. Besides the location next to La Senza, what else is open?


by next to La Senza did you mean next to La Vie en Rose?


----------



## 8127972

trump said:


> by next to La Senza did you mean next to La Vie en Rose?


Yes.....I was thinking of here:

http://www.ifoapplestore.com/photos/eaton_possible.jpg


----------



## trump

8127972 said:


> Yes.....I was thinking of here:
> 
> http://www.ifoapplestore.com/photos/eaton_possible.jpg


that was my tip at ifoApplestore and I honestly think that's the best spot for it and where it will likely be


----------



## Jet_Star

Well, I just came back from a little walk over to the Eaton Centre. I checked out that space which is currently boarded up beside La Vie En Rose. Looks like part of that space will be occupied by BCBG Maxazria, as that is now covered with an ad for the store. The remaining larger part is painted white, and a quick peek inside only revealed an empty space under construction. So no real evidence yet to make a conclusion to say that space will be the new Apple store.

I'll check back in a few more weeks, as I work just a short walk from there.


----------



## ColBalt

Jet_Star said:


> Well, I just came back from a little walk over to the Eaton Centre. I checked out that space which is currently boarded up beside La Vie En Rose. Looks like part of that space will be occupied by BCBG Maxazria, as that is now covered with an ad for the store. The remaining larger part is painted white, and a quick peek inside only revealed an empty space under construction. So no real evidence yet to make a conclusion to say that space will be the new Apple store.
> 
> I'll check back in a few more weeks, as I work just a short walk from there.


:clap: 
Some good sleuthing Agent Jet_Star. Thanks for the update.


----------



## Jet_Star

ColBalt, you're welcome. But I wouldn't say I really did anything much, just pass on what I saw.

gmark2000 is the one who really does all the major sleuthing around here.


----------



## T-hill

Just thought I'd give a quick hello to everyone. Been a while, mainly due to school and life in general.

Getting excited for the new store again! As I said with Yorkdale, if I don't get a job there, I'll probably line up. Don't know if I can beat #9, but I'll try! Lord knows I should probably get onto applying already!

I'm never by Eaton Centre to do my own sleuthing, course I was never at Yorkdale in the months leading up to the new store until it opened. All my usual tipsters are quiet, and come to think of it, my latest trip to the Apple Store (yesterday), and I recognized only 1 staffer from the opening!

Good luck guys, and I'll see you all at the opening!


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## Ashtangi

As Jet_Star said, part of that vacant Eaton Centre space will be a BCBG. Don't be surprised if the remaining space is for Abercrombie & Fitch. 

Here are some job postings for A&F: 
http://www.torontoeatoncentre.com/contact/jobposting.ch2

I'm not sure where else it'd go - and the size of the store is similar to their newly-opened location at Sherway Gardens.


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## Ashtangi

*Confirmed*

UPDATE - Confirmed. 

Just noticed that the Apple Store signage has GONE UP on *HALF* of that vacant space on the south end, third level of the Eaton Centre - beside the BCBG.


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## kevs~just kevs

what is BCBG?


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## 8127972

kevs~just kevs said:


> what is BCBG?


This should clarify things:

http://www.bcbg.com/


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## g4manwithipod

*Big News!!!*

Wahoo! Now i can talk to a mac genius in my own freakin' neighborhood! 
Goodbye Yorkdale! Hello Eaton! I do feel kind of sorry for some of the resellers (like shoppers drug mart). Who buys goes out for toothpaste and comes home with an ipod instead?
Obsessive compulsive shoppers?
People with dual-personality disorder?
People who think that ipods will enrich their toothbrushing experience?


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## 8127972

g4manwithipod said:


> Wahoo! Now i can talk to a mac genius in my own freakin' neighborhood!
> Goodbye Yorkdale! Hello Eaton! I do feel kind of sorry for some of the resellers (like shoppers drug mart). Who buys goes out for toothpaste and comes home with an ipod instead?
> Obsessive compulsive shoppers?
> People with dual-personality disorder?
> People who think that ipods will enrich their toothbrushing experience?


Shoppers Drug Mart isn't a reseller (if you can call them that) that you should feel sorry for. Feel sorry the following instead (ranked in terms of how likely they are to be affected by an Apple store at the Eaton Center):

1. North Star
2. Creative Technologies
3. Computer Systems Center
4. CPUsed
5. Carbon Computing

All of these guys are full line Apple dealers and are going to be affected way more than a nation wide drug store chain that sells iPods. It doesn't help that they're right in the line of fire so to speak. After all, the Apple stores have a history of pretty much killing off anything in their path. I submit the following links for your reading pleasure:

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=11149
http://chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=15864

I for one spend a fair amount of cash at Carbon (both personally and professionally) and would hate to see them affected by an Apple store. I don't think they'll go out of business or anything, but I can't see how they wouldn't be hurt in some way. Besides, I would much rather buy stuff for the company I work for at an Independent reseller. My fear is that that may not be an option if Apple stores start to pop up all over.


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## gmark2000

Ashtangi said:


> UPDATE - Confirmed.
> 
> Just noticed that the Apple Store signage has GONE UP on *HALF* of that vacant space on the south end, third level of the Eaton Centre - beside the BCBG.


Meh. No flagship store for Canada's largest city and media/communications center.

Just another crowded 4,000 sq ft store with no theatre like Yorkdale.


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## Jet_Star

Ashtangi said:


> UPDATE - Confirmed.
> 
> Just noticed that the Apple Store signage has GONE UP on *HALF* of that vacant space on the south end, third level of the Eaton Centre - beside the BCBG.



I was there on sunday evening at close and that space was still blank white. I guess they must have put it up after closing time.

That will be a very convenient location for me, just a 5 min streetcar ride east across queen from my work. Now I know where I'll be spending my lunch hour


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## trump

gah, it's official...Apple Retail are idiots. If you found Yorkdale crowded and busy (which it is) just wait till this baby opens.....


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## Sayhey

If it's any consolation, I seriously doubt Apple retail is finished with Toronto with these two mall locations. There are just too many people in the Toronto area to be serviced by two stores. Cities of similar size in the States are opening their fifth store and more soon. Apple has also opened multiple stores in London and Tokyo with more in both cities rumored soon. Anyway, I wouldn't give up hope on more and bigger locations.


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## ender78

Sayhey said:


> If it's any consolation, I seriously doubt Apple retail is finished with Toronto with these two mall locations. There are just too many people in the Toronto area to be serviced by two stores. Cities of similar size in the States are opening their fifth store and more soon. Apple has also opened multiple stores in London and Tokyo with more in both cities rumored soon. Anyway, I wouldn't give up hope on more and bigger locations.



Eaton Centre could easily remain a permanent fixture even with another store just a few blocks away. Lets not forget the foot traffic that the mall gets with natives and visitors. Having two stores in the area could be positive for inventory and such. We could have a larger store at lets say Yonge and Dundas and a sister store in the Eaton Centre [as we see with Compusmart with their two locations downtown]


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## trump

Sayhey said:


> If it's any consolation, I seriously doubt Apple retail is finished with Toronto with these two mall locations. There are just too many people in the Toronto area to be serviced by two stores. Cities of similar size in the States are opening their fifth store and more soon. Apple has also opened multiple stores in London and Tokyo with more in both cities rumored soon. Anyway, I wouldn't give up hope on more and bigger locations.


quite true Gary


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## cavemanatlarge

I have been to Yorkdale and it was really busy. I guess the Eaton Centre store will be the same . 

I still want one in the Rideau centre in Ottawa, or maybe on Sparks street or less desirabe in the Bayshore shopping centre or at the St Laurent shopping centre.

We have enough people Apple and are underserved with stores (though I always like going to the Mac Group)

Caveman


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## Jet_Star

Ashtangi said:


> UPDATE - Confirmed.
> 
> Just noticed that the Apple Store signage has GONE UP on *HALF* of that vacant space on the south end, third level of the Eaton Centre - beside the BCBG.


Here's a couple of pics taken today:


















It seems that the width of the store is wider (if we are assuming that the tenant space is actually the width of that signage) than the one at Yorkdale, but I believe its not as deep as Yorkdale.


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## Heart

Thank you for the pictures Jet_Star!

Awesome work!


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## trump

weird...it's not black


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## gmark2000

That's very interesting that it bears only a small Apple logo.


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## Jet_Star

gmark2000 said:


> That's very interesting that it bears only a small Apple logo.
> 
> Ya and like trump said, its not the usual solid black. I wonder if it means anything or are we just reading too much into it?


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## gmark2000

Well, the frontage is smaller than Yorkdale at 38 feet and is only slightly larger due to back area which would be devoted to storage and back office space. So it will essentially be the same as Yorkdale. My calculations are that the space is about 4,200 sq ft.


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## Commodus

However big people think the store should be, at least the location is good - right as you reach the top of the escalator. They'll get lots of traffic there.

I think Apple may stop its Toronto store development for awhile after this, though. The other major cities in Canada could definitely stand to have official Apple presences in them, including Ottawa. And I'm not just promoting my hometown, either: there's only one real Mac-dedicated shop in the whole town (The Mac Group), and you're not going to get Best Buy or Compusmart to repair a Mac on-site.


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## ender78

Commodus said:


> I think Apple may stop its Toronto store development for awhile after this, though. The other major cities in Canada could definitely stand to have official Apple presences in them, including Ottawa.


How many stores does New York City have? I think we still have room for a Toronto MegaStore. More stores in TO do not preclude stores in other cities. Due to the success of the Yorkdale store, we may see many more stores in Canada. Two to Three this year in Canada would be my prediction.


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## gmark2000

Commodus said:


> ...you're not going to get Best Buy or Compusmart to repair a Mac on-site.


Apart from the Genius Bar doing some troubleshooting, *there's no "on-site" repair of Macs at Apple Stores*. [*WRONG! See correction below.*] Go to your local Apple Authorized Repair Center (which is usually your local reseller).

And for the last time, Carbon, CSC, Click-On, Northstar, Creative, CPUsed, DVShop etc... are not going to suffer from the Apple Stores. Selling more Macs to consumers means servicing and supporting more Macs. There's a ripple effect.

The Apple Store is a consumer store. A big advertising or design firm will continue to go to the resellers. The same for the law firms, publishing houses, video production houses will still support the resellers.

More switchers mean more acceptance by corporate buyers.

This is all a good opportunity for resellers to support the new users.


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## 8127972

gmark2000 said:


> Apart from the Genius Bar doing some troubleshooting, *there's no "on-site" repair of Macs at Apple Stores*. Go to your local Apple Authorized Repair Center (which is usually your local reseller).
> 
> And for the last time, Carbon, CSC, Click-On, Northstar, Creative, CPUsed, DVShop etc... are not going to suffer from the Apple Stores. Selling more Macs to consumers means servicing and supporting more Macs. There's a ripple effect.
> 
> The Apple Store is a consumer store. A big advertising or design firm will continue to go to the resellers. The same for the law firms, publishing houses, video production houses will still support the resellers.
> 
> More switchers mean more acceptance by corporate buyers.
> 
> This is all a good opportunity for resellers to support the new users.


This is where I disagree with you. You're making the assumption that resellers and Apple stores are on a level playing field. The word on the street is that they're not. The various lawsuits floating around accuse Apple of among other things:

- Apple miscalculated the length of its new product warranties and AppleCare service contracts so they expired prematurely. Goods purchased from Apple stores allegedly have ACCURATE warranty dates. 

- Apple misappropriated resellers' customer lists, which the resellers consider trade secrets. 

- Resellers also argue that Apple is not properly reflecting the repair costs or requirements on equipment, which unfairly places warranty repair burden on the reseller channel. The court documents also reveal allegations that Apple at times has refused to compensate for, or accept returns of, defective parts provided for repairs.

On top of that, Apple's on financials indicate that their stores pay less for Apple branded product than resellers do. That allows them to make higher margins than resellers. Last time I checked, some reseller margins were down to as low as 6%. Plus Apple launched promotions that claimed that they would prices that were BELOW what resellers bought their product for from distribution (they stopped doing that when one of the class action lawsuits was amended to include that fact). 

Who knows? Maybe I'm wrong. I'd love to be proven wrong. But the fact that resellers are disappearing from areas where Apple stores open up suggests that perhaps I'm not.


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## gmark2000

Okay, I'll have to eat crow about something. An irate Apple Store employee PM'd me and told me *that they do indeed do repairs at the stores*. To be specific, it is a repair queue managed by the Genius Bar. The reason why Apple Stores don't specifically advertise for Apple-certified technicians in recruitment is because the "Mac Geniuses" perform the service. (See the list of typical employees.)

That being said, I did some further research on this and the repair model at the Apple Stores is somewhat a source of frustration for many people. The Genius Bar is notorious for long waits and the necessity for booking appointments before your Apple product can be assessed in person. This is the only way to get into the repair queue. The common complaint is that how can items get repaired in a timely manner if the Geniuses are constantly busy answering questions. Also the ProCare option of buying your way into a better level of service from the Genius Bar has also been criticized.

The Genius Bar was never originally meant to be a service depot it was supposed to be "where customers can ask questions and solve tech problems."


ifoapplestore said:


> Repairs have become a more important part of store activity, and no doubt it will continue to grow. There are areas where computers can be disassembled, parts replaced or repaired, and there is equipment and tools for the repairs.


So in a nutshell, you should still support your local Apple Reseller/Authorized Service Center.


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## 8127972

gmark2000 said:


> Okay, I'll have to eat crow about something. An irate Apple Store employee PM'd me and told me *that they do indeed do repairs at the stores*.


I am kind of surprised that an Apple store employee would PM you. Word has it that they can't participate in boards like this and a few have been fired for even having blogs.


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## Heart

> I am kind of surprised that an Apple store employee would PM you.



gmark2000 is well connected. :heybaby:


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## gmark2000

I'm surprised too. I must have pushed enough buttons to make him/her do so.

By the way, I can't see any of the Apple Store staff being anymore than retail serfs. They aren't cold-calling corporate accounts and raiding customers from established Apple resellers. Maybe the Markham staff but not the Yorkdale grunts.


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## .tony

8127972 said:


> - Apple miscalculated the length of its new product warranties and AppleCare service contracts so they expired prematurely. Goods purchased from Apple stores allegedly have ACCURATE warranty dates.


Apple builds a shelf-life into their products, same as every other vendor. Resellers and Service Providers have access to GSX which allows them to register a product so that the warranty is accurate.

AppleCare Protection Plan contracts are the customer's responsibility to register, and have no build-in warranties. They are tired to the s/n of a product. Again, service providers can register the APP in GSX for the customer, although they don't get compensated for it any more (they use to years ago).

Either way it doesn't matter. The customers POP over-rides whatever is in Apple's system.

Apple employees don't get fired for participating on these board. So long as their not braking their NDA, keeping it professional, and do not represent themselves as "official Apple spokesperson", then they have the right to do as they please. Those that got fired over their blogs was because they were spreading inappropriate things about the company.


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## .tony

8127972 said:


> - [1]Apple misappropriated resellers' customer lists, which the resellers consider trade secrets.
> 
> [2]- Resellers also argue that Apple is not properly reflecting the repair costs or requirements on equipment[...]
> 
> [3]On top of that, Apple's on financials indicate that their stores pay less for Apple branded product than resellers do.


1. That's what privacy legislation is for. Apple doesn't use reseller's lists - it uses what information end-users give Apple. Sure, I bought my product from CPUsed, but registered it with Apple. Agreed, Apple can now cross-sell to me, but that's the trend of the industry. So many companies are doing it. Doesn't necessarily make it right, but I'm giving my information to Apple and giving them permission to contact me.

2. I agree with you there. Apple's compensation is the greatest, but it is in line with industry standards. Its by no means a revenue generating part of a business, but there are other avenues that reseller's ignore. Like selling APP, Support Pro, charging for installation and setup support, things like that.

3. On the other end, Apple pays a lot more in lease and store installations. I don't know if that counters the other, nor am I claiming it does. My point is that its not enough to just say Apple gets to pay less for the product it sells. There's an entire financial line above and below it.

I think competition is healthy. I also think there are (well, were) a lot of resellers and service providers that expected Apple to pave the way to riches for them. They didn't make an effort to get or keep their customers. They were afraid to charge for "out of the box" stuff, and expected Apple to compensate them for it. I think the resellers that are out there now have a good business model and plan, and if they made it this far, then I think an Apple-branded retail store can help them.

My two cents.


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## cavemanatlarge

Here, Here Commodus

Caveman

P.S. Support the Mac Group


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## 8127972

> By the way, I can't see any of the Apple Store staff being anymore than retail serfs. They aren't cold-calling corporate accounts and raiding customers from established Apple resellers. Maybe the Markham staff but not the Yorkdale grunts.



AFAIK, there isn't much of a sales presence in Markham beyond education and some enterprise sales staff. The last time I was there which was 2 years ago, it was pretty empty.


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## Kanuck

I was at the Eaton Centre today, and they had the doors open to this space. It's _huge_, despite what those plans make it look like. An enormous, gaping space.

OT: I used to work at Eddie Bauer on the second floor, and I can almost guarantee that's where Abercrombie will wind up - I'd put money on it. Eddie Bauer's gone from over 600 stores to well under 400 since its former parent company went bankrupt. All of the Eaton Centre staff and management left all at once in the summer, pretty much gutting the store. I doubt they'll hold onto it, especially with the ten-year lease up for renewal at the end of the year.

Speaking of my former company, the employees at the Eddie Bauer on Bloor West were pink slipped months ago. I don't remember if anything else is already slated to go in there, but it's prime real estate opening up very soon. Two stories, fairly narrow, directly beside Holt Renfrew. Great candidate for a flagship Apple Store location, IMO.


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## capitalK

It might look huge now, but that's to be expected in a bare store. Remember they need to put up a wall to cover up a lot of the back section to use as a stock room.


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## Jet_Star

Kanuck, was the width of the space equal to the width of the poster covering the outside wall did it span to include the space adjacent to it?


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## Ashtangi

Kanuck - apparently the old Eddie Bauer space on Bloor Street will be taken over by Holt Renfrew.


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## gmark2000

CarbonKen said:


> It might look huge now, but that's to be expected in a bare store. Remember they need to put up a wall to cover up a lot of the back section to use as a stock room.


That's right. Up to about six feet of Yorkdale's frontage is taken up by a long corridor of storage. _See on the left where the limestone slabs are on the wall._


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## Kanuck

Jet_Star said:


> Kanuck, was the width of the space equal to the width of the poster covering the outside wall did it span to include the space adjacent to it?


Equal, from what I could tell - I didn't exactly stare, for I'm a closet geek myself.  But make no mistake, when you're standing right there in front of the store, it's a ton of frontage - as is the trend with all new Eaton Centre stores these days. It's also ridiculously deep; remember, there used to be a coffee shop along the railing there, then there was a rather large hallway behind it, and then more full-sized retail stores behind that. There's plenty of room back there.

Ashtangi: Taken over by Holt, eh? That's fairly disappointing. I would think they have enough frontage on Bloor, enough retail space, and enough entrances in the basement plaza that they wouldn't need anymore. I'd rather see something new in there, but I suppose what's done is done. Eddie Bauer will do better in the suburbs anyways, they just opened a store at Upper Canada in Newmarket that I'd expect will do really well.


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