# The Ontario Political Thread



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

We need a thread on these boards to separate the Ontario Progs from the Ottawa Progs.

I'll start:

Vilification of Tim Hortons and Ontario Small Businesses another bleak sign Canada is in a slow lockstep march towards socialistic collapse



> Leave it to the premier of Ontario and Canada’s state broadcaster to stoke anti-business ire by using Canada’s once-beloved homegrown coffee chain as their scapegoat.
> 
> After Premier Kathleen Wynne rammed through new legislation hiking the minimum wage by 21 per cent at the start of 2018, without conducting any impact assessment and going against her old pledge to not raise it above inflation and giving only six-months notice, the CBC had the perfect news report to whip up proletarian anger at the business community, which would deflect blame from the unpopular Liberal premier.


h/t SDA, from whence comes this prescient comment:



> If a small cut in tax revenue that decreases government revenues or a small cut in government subsidies is outrageous and immoral, but large government imposed policies that reduces the profitability of small businesses and results in fewer jobs for low income citizens is social justice....then you might be a progressive.


Nails it.

Related:

Just who’s the bully when it comes to minimum wage hikes?



> Dramatically increasing minimum wages in the food industry is irresponsible and even reckless.
> 
> On Jan. 1, Ontario’s minimum wage increased by 22 per cent, to $14 an hour. It will go to $15 on Jan. 1, 2019. That’s almost a 32 per cent increase in 12 months. Other provinces, such as Alberta and B.C., will follow suit.
> 
> This obviously puts pressure on many businesses to recalibrate operating budgets. And the large food sector, where many workers earn the minimum wage, is already coping with major headwinds.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Wynne is happy to drive smaller family-owned restaurants out of business. The prog sentiment here is that "if a business can't afford this sort of government-imposed cost increase, then it does not deserve to be in business." Wynne is a nasty person, possessing all of the vindictiveness that comes with the progressive brand.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> Wynne is happy to drive smaller family-owned restaurants out of business. The prog sentiment here is that "if a business can't afford this sort of government-imposed cost increase, then it does not deserve to be in business." Wynne is a nasty person, possessing all of the vindictiveness that comes with the progressive brand.


Not so fast here. Wynne’s attack was purely political. With the election this year she is grand standing....she had 4 years to gradually bring up the min-wage level, a level the Cons and NDP agreed with. Nested in this is the war between 3G and Timmies franchise holders. In fact, the “few rogue” franchisees is now over half of the Canadian franchise holders. Wages aren’t the only issue here......let’s not paint this with the same broad brush.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Rps said:


> Not so fast here. Wynne’s attack was purely political. With the election this year she is grand standing....she had 4 years to gradually bring up the min-wage level, a level the Cons and NDP agreed with. Nested in this is the war between 3G and Timmies franchise holders. In fact, the “few rogue” franchisees is now over half of the Canadian franchise holders. Wages aren’t the only issue here......let’s not paint this with the same broad brush.


I will go so far as to broaden the brush.

Add Alberta premier Notley and PM Pompadour to the mix. They are enemies of Canada today and need to be removed from power sooner than later.


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## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

Rps said:


> Not so fast here. Wynne’s attack was purely political. With the election this year she is grand standing....she had 4 years to gradually bring up the min-wage level, a level the Cons and NDP agreed with. Nested in this is the war between 3G and Timmies franchise holders. In fact, the “few rogue” franchisees is now over half of the Canadian franchise holders. Wages aren’t the only issue here......let’s not paint this with the same broad brush.


Agreed. Timmies also losing serious market share to McDonalds. Someone told me McDs is number 1 now for coffee sales in Canada. Not sure if that's accurate but if so..


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## BReligion (Jun 21, 2006)

smashedbanana said:


> Agreed. Timmies also losing serious market share to McDonalds. Someone told me McDs is number 1 now for coffee sales in Canada. Not sure if that's accurate but if so..


That would be because they have a way better product. McDonalds uses the coffee Tim Hortons used to use. I don’t remember if they decided to change or lost the rights to it, but at the end of the day their product is garbage by comparison now. The Dark roast is barley tolerable.. add in the fact they don’t bake any of their products in store any
more.. the fact that people go there for anything astounds me.

BReligion


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I think it's been 10 years since there was a baker at any outlet I visited--probably much longer.



BReligion said:


> That would be because they have a way better product. McDonalds uses the coffee Tim Hortons used to use. I don’t remember if they decided to change or lost the rights to it, but at the end of the day their product is garbage by comparison now. The Dark roast is barley tolerable.. add in the fact they don’t bake any of their products in store any
> more.. the fact that people go there for anything astounds me.
> 
> BReligion


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

The PCs did not support the minimum wage levels. The NDP did.

The "war between the fanchisees" is not relevant to the debate. 



Rps said:


> Not so fast here. Wynne’s attack was purely political. With the election this year she is grand standing....she had 4 years to gradually bring up the min-wage level, a level the Cons and NDP agreed with. Nested in this is the war between 3G and Timmies franchise holders. In fact, the “few rogue” franchisees is now over half of the Canadian franchise holders. Wages aren’t the only issue here......let’s not paint this with the same broad brush.


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## BReligion (Jun 21, 2006)

Macfury said:


> I think it's been 10 years since there was a baker at any outlet I visited--probably much longer.


2002 they want from bakers in store making baked goods from scratch to getting flash frozen par baked ones.

BReligion


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

BReligion said:


> 2002 they want from bakers in store making baked goods from scratch to getting flash frozen par baked ones.
> 
> BReligion


I remember buying hot donuts from the backs of the stores of some independents. When the no-bakery policy hit, Tim Hortons dropped dozens of great items from its menu--any donut with a shorter shelf life.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> The PCs did not support the minimum wage levels. The NDP did.
> 
> The "war between the fanchisees" is not relevant to the debate.


Actually the PCs did, but not at the accelerated rate as the NDP nor the politically enhanced move by Wynne ( remember she had 4 years to bring in min-wage increases....very hard to cover a 21% increase in one shot ) and the franchisee war IS relevant to this. It is the restrictive practices by 3G on there franchisees that caused them to seek cost recovery.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Macfury said:


> I remember buying hot donuts from the backs of the stores of some independents. When the no-bakery policy hit, Tim Hortons dropped dozens of great items from its menu--any donut with a shorter shelf life.


I think the ultimate test is that the Mounties stop at the independent Cinnabear a mile or two up the highway. Can't recall seeing a Mountie parked outside Timmies in a very long time.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Rps said:


> Actually the PCs did, but not at the accelerated rate as the NDP nor the politically enhanced move by Wynne ( remember she had 4 years to bring in min-wage increases....very hard to cover a 21% increase in one shot ) and the franchisee war IS relevant to this. It is the restrictive practices by 3G on there franchisees that caused them to seek cost recovery.


Everybody knows that the minimum wage will reach $15 eventually, whether now or in 2025. To say they agreed that the rate would rise to $15 at some point in the future does not indicate they agreed with Wynne.

3G's business model is none of our business. The problem is the minimum wage hike, not "restrictive" costing practices.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> Everybody knows that the minimum wage will reach $15 eventually, whether now or in 2025. To say they agreed that the rate would rise to $15 at some point in the future does not indicate they agreed with Wynne.
> 
> 3G's business model is none of our business. The problem is the minimum wage hike, not "restrictive" costing practices.


Not to be argumentative, but the PCs did support the increase ( see Nov. 15, and 23 press release ) they felt the quickness was hurtful and wanted to increase it slowly $.25 per hour yearly to 2025....and the franchisee war while not our business is key to this press coverage...Wynne politically hit the franchisees ( two in particular ) as opposed to seeing her policy as the cause.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Rps said:


> Not to be argumentative, but the PCs did support the increase ( see Nov. 15, and 23 press release ) they felt the quickness was hurtful and wanted to increase it slowly $.25 per hour yearly to 2025...


Right. A workable rate that is indexed far closer to inflation.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

If you think that a minimum wage should be $15 years from now, that does not mean you agree with the wage rate in principle. Say I agree that it might be OK to pay $4.00 for a litre of gasoline in 2050. If someone raises that price to $4 today, can they rightfully claim that I agreed to the hike in principle?



Rps said:


> Not to be argumentative, but the PCs did support the increase ( see Nov. 15, and 23 press release ) they felt the quickness was hurtful and wanted to increase it slowly $.25 per hour yearly to 2025....and the franchisee war while not our business is key to this press coverage...Wynne politically hit the franchisees ( two in particular ) as opposed to seeing her policy as the cause.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Why the Fiberals are faking their minimum wage outrage



> Nothing takes the mob’s mind off one’s own indefensible and appalling misconduct quite like shaming some other villain.
> 
> Ontario Labour Minister Kevin Flynn tried to do just that Monday in a stunning, self-serving farce of a press conference where he threatened, bullied and promised to publicly out Ontario businesses for wrongs they haven’t, and are wholly unlikely, to commit.


I could hear the screeching out here...


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Liberals haunted by gas plant scandal



> To the horror of Premier Kathleen Wynne and the Ontario Liberals, the gas plants scandal is once again in play as they head into an election the premier must call no later than June 7.
> 
> That’s the political impact of Judge Timothy Lipson’s decision Friday convicting David Livingston, former premier Dalton McGuinty’s chief of staff, on two criminal charges related to the destruction of emails and other documents in connection with the $1.1 billion scandal.


Fingers crossed, MF.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Yep.



FeXL said:


> Liberals haunted by gas plant scandal
> 
> Fingers crossed, MF.


Further on minimum wage:

I don't eat out a lot, but the two places that I visit weekly--a cafe and a pizza place--have jacked up their prices to cover minimum wage costs. Will be cutting the pizza visits to three out of four weeks and cutting the order size at the cafe. Kathleen Wynne will think i'm being vindictive.

Also seeing another aspect to this debacle. A friend is a contract worker with a public entity and was told that all future contracts would be offered at a reduced rate to pay for the increase in minimum wage costs.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Macfury said:


> Also seeing another aspect to this debacle. A friend is a contract worker with a public entity and was told that all future contracts would be offered at a reduced rate to pay for the increase in minimum wage costs.


Interesting.

Talked w/ our daughter at U of Sask on the weekend. She has applied for & received offers from a number of her profs for NSERC-funded summer positions. Wages run around $12-$13/hr across the board. Was wondering at the time how many positions would be killed if the minimum wages goes up to $15/hr. This must be affecting post-secondary students in regressive AB & ON.


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## polywog (Aug 9, 2007)

Macfury said:


> Say I agree that it might be OK to pay $4.00 for a litre of gasoline in 2050. If someone raises that price to $4 today, can they rightfully claim that I agreed to the hike in principle?


I would concur with your original statement, but I plan to have an electric flying solar car by then.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

polywog said:


> I would concur with your original statement, but I plan to have an electric flying solar car by then.


I was seriously thinking today, that drone cars will be next!


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## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

polywog said:


> I would concur with your original statement, but I plan to have an electric flying solar car by then.


I'm not sure we should be allowed flying cars. Ottawa drivers bad enough already with only 2 dimensional driving.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

So, Patrick Brown has stepped down as PC leader amid accusations of sexual assult.

Not saying it didn't happen, but...
1. Bloody convenient timing, no?
2. Accusers un-named. Rather convenient, as well.
3. At this time, stepping down is the best thing to do. Gives time to bring in somebody who the right dislikes less.

Lots of links inside:


Alleged PC Leader Patrick Brown denies claims of sexual assault by two women



> 6 senior staff members have resigned after Patrick Brown declined their advice to resign.
> 
> Why? Did they do so to protect their own reputations rather than die fighting to salvage Brown’s leadership?
> 
> ...


Patrick Brown Resigns As PC Leader



> Patrick Brown stepped down as leader of the Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario early Thursday, only hours after denying allegations of sexual misconduct.
> 
> “These allegations are false and have been difficult to hear,” said Brown in a statement issued just before 1:30 a.m. ET.
> 
> “However, defeating [Ontario Premier] Kathleen Wynne in 2018 is more important than one individual. For this reason, after consulting with caucus, friends and family I have decided to step down as Leader of the Ontario PC Party. I will remain on as a MPP while I definitively clear my name from these false allegations.”


Wynneing! (Bumped with updates)

Four months is probably not enough time to have a leadership convention but is more than enough time to pick a candidate.


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## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

FeXL said:


> So, Patrick Brown has stepped down as PC leader amid accusations of sexual assult.
> 
> Not saying it didn't happen, but...
> 1. Bloody convenient timing, no?
> ...


I did think it was curiously convenient and wonder how this will shape the upcoming election. Hopefully despite this it will still end the Liberals reign in Ontario. It is sad though that the mere allegation is enough to bring someone down now. His denying it is not even taken into consideration, the public view is now automatically GUILTY. Goodbye "innocent till proven guilty" if you are a straight while male.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I think the timing is suspicious without knowing whether the allegations are true or not. Still, if I had timed it to destroy the election for the PCs, I would have waited three months. People laughed at Pence for going to social engagements with his wife in tow, but as a pol, you have to guard your reputation like a bulldog. Photos of Brown's accuser taken inside his own home should never have happened.

Patrick Brown was always a squishy conservative to me. Really sucked up to the global warming crowd. I'm not sitting here shocked and saddened that some conservative firebrand has been taken down. Just get rid of Wynne!!!!


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

wonderings said:


> I did think it was curiously convenient and wonder how this will shape the upcoming election. Hopefully despite this it will still end the Liberals reign in Ontario.


Anybody else on the slate even remotely acceptable? I got the sense out here that Brown was nothing more than "Liberal Lite" & people who voted for him would be holding their noses with the other hand.



wonderings said:


> It is sad though that the mere allegation is enough to bring someone down now. His denying it is not even taken into consideration, the public view is now automatically GUILTY.


Agreed. Thing is, there is far too much history of proclaiming innocence while guilty, too, especially among people of power. It's difficult to not be cynical.



wonderings said:


> Goodbye "innocent till proven guilty" if you are a straight while male.


One of the reasons why the American politician (whose name escapes me right now) is never alone with a female.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

FeXL said:


> Anybody else on the slate even remotely acceptable? I got the sense out here that Brown was nothing more than "Liberal Lite" & people who voted for him would be holding their noses with the other hand.


You could be right Sex scandals are more the Liberal bailiwick. Conmen tend to go for fiscal scandals.


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## FUXL (Nov 2, 2016)

This will be fun to watch. They'll pick a female, so it's down to Lisa McLeod or Caroline Mulroney (that's right, daughter of Brian "only cash please" Mulroney.

McLeod will be shunned because of her "depression". So Caroline will win.


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

FUXL said:


> This will be fun to watch. They'll pick a female, so it's down to Lisa McLeod or Caroline Mulroney (that's right, daughter of Brian "only cash please" Mulroney.
> 
> McLeod will be shunned because of her "depression". So Caroline will win.


i would prefer back to old school politics .. Caroline will be welcome. 

enough of NDP suckling on the tit of liberals to be there for any thing they need .. 
as for the Liberals they have stolen and misplaced billions and corruption runs so deep no one knows what the truth is any longer.


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## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

I will say it first and you can quote me later.

Liberal minority.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Here are the contenders for the Ontario PC leadership as an election looms



> While the PCs appear to have no shortage of contenders, they will be forced to make some quick decisions. On Friday morning, the Tory caucus is set to meet to select an interim leader, which means the caucus will be selecting from its own ranks. That has the benefit of allowing for a quick decision as the election looms, but it may not be the person the party wants taking on the Liberals in the election.
> 
> After the interim leader is chosen, the party could rush ahead with a convention and allow the membership to vote for a new, permanent leader. This would allow for more candidates, but would leave members with little time to make an important decision.


MF?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Not one of these candidates has a profile high enough to be more than names to me. Was not a big fan of Brian Mulroney, who put the "P" in the PC, so I am wary of his progeny. Still, I think that one of the woman candidates has the best chance of success, since she is unlikely to be sidelined by a last minute accusation of sexual impropriety. Kathleen Wynne is such a disaster that I would hold my nose and vote for anyone on the ticket.



FeXL said:


> Here are the contenders for the Ontario PC leadership as an election looms
> 
> 
> 
> MF?


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

FeXL said:


> So, Patrick Brown has stepped down as PC leader amid accusations of sexual assult.
> 
> Not saying it didn't happen, but...
> 1. Bloody convenient timing, no?
> ...


*
PC MPP MacLeod says she shared info about Brown last year with campaign officials*

Conservative MPP Lisa MacLeod says she took concerns over MPP Patrick Brown's alleged behaviour to members of the campaign team "two or three times," last year.

PC war room insiders told her that the reports of "issues about women," were unfounded, she said.

"There were lots of things that were percolating that a lot of people heard," the Nepean-Carleton MPP told reporters on her way into the PC caucus meeting Friday.

"People would tell me things so I would float it up the flagpole to the central campaign," said MacLeod. "Certainly when I heard issues about women I would bring those forward." She said she raised the matter with officials "before Christmas."

(CTV)​


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

I read that this morning, along with a couple other reports. Sounds legit.

Timing is still very suspect. From what I've been able to gather, these events happened years ago & now they're just coming to light? Why not deal with them at the time? By all means, destroy his reputation & career. But time it so a provincial election is thrown?

That's a whole new can of twisted. This has the stink of a desperate Liberal politician all over it.



CubaMark said:


> PC MPP MacLeod says she shared info about Brown last year with campaign officials


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Is there supposed to be something wrong with that? 



CubaMark said:


> *
> PC MPP MacLeod says she shared info about Brown last year with campaign officials*
> 
> Conservative MPP Lisa MacLeod says she took concerns over MPP Patrick Brown's alleged behaviour to members of the campaign team "two or three times," last year.
> ...


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## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

FeXL said:


> That's a whole new can of twisted. This has the stink of a desperate Liberal politician all over it.


Ya not so sure about that. There has been some noise that members of the party had a hand in this.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

smashedbanana said:


> Ya not so sure about that. There has been some noise that members of the party had a hand in this.


They're willing to throw away a chance of governing the province with this late announcement? Geniuses...

Plato was right:


> “Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are stupider.”


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

smashedbanana said:


> Ya not so sure about that. There has been some noise that members of the party had a hand in this.


But it might simply have been to make sure Brown was ousted before others knew what they already knew. The photos of the staffer inside Brown's house already existed.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Mid-level drug dealer announces bid for Ontario PC leadership*










TORONTO – A successful mid-level hash dealer named Doug Ford has announced his leadership bid for the Ontario Progressive Conservatives.

The entrepreneur made the announcement earlier today among family, friends, and pushers.

“To my supporters and customers, thank you for believing in me,” said the businessman. “I have gotten to know many of you in the basements and dark alleys throughout the province. For years, Kathleen Wynne and the Liberals have not been giving Ontarians a fair cut in the deal.”

The man who is responsible for keeping Etobicoke well supplied in the 1980s said that he didn’t want to see the PCs fall into the hands of the Colombian elites.

Ford touted his strong business skills, being the primary employer of young people, and has an intimidating presence that “you don’t want to **** with.”

Some of Ford’s promises includes lowering taxes, hydro bills, and never getting high on his own stash.
(The Beaverton)​


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Man, the Beaverton needs a good editor.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Man you guys have short memories. Ontario is in a Bob Rae mode right now. The NDP have one of the most respected leaders of the three major parties. I see an anybody but Wynne vibe here. The PCs should just run on a well balanced platform and ignore the leadership problem...however the PCs have continuously shot themselves in the foot by bouncing around Policy wise.....so much so they have destroyed their brand. Just what is a PC anyway....that has certainly been destroyed in my opinion. This leaves Horwath, she comes across as a consistent and capable party leader. Remember when Rae got in, everyone hated the Libs and the Cons.....so in a “what the hell” moment Ontario voted NDP. I see this happening again....I wouldn’t be against putting a few bob on the NDP to win.....let’s hope we don’t have the same result we had when we voted that way for Rae.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Horwath is respected? I have never encountered that sentiment anywhere on the ground.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> Horwath is respected? I have never encountered that sentiment anywhere on the ground.


You need to get out more! While not an NDP fancier, she has been more consistent than Wynne and, who knows about Brown outside of his riding. I think this will, however, be it for her if the party comes in 3rd again under her stewardship. Both the NDP and the Cons eat their young....where the Liberals should.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Around here, people struggle to remember her name. I've seen polls that find her the most "likeable" but no poll to suggest that this could translate into an election victory. What have you seen?


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

My sources have noticed that the traditional holdings for the Liberals ( urban centres ) is seeping. The issue is elections seem to centre on leaders rather than platforms. The PCs are rudderless, they could recover but need to get a wiggle since ad time is being absorbed quickly even though the election is not until June. Many I’ve talked to like Horwath but do not vote typically for the NDP. This vacuum is a major issue for the Libs and NDP. Not saying these voters have written off the PCs, but they like Horwath but not the party. If it comes down to leaders, the PCs have a non entity ( but again I don’t think they need to have a leader per se......a good platform and money heavily invested in their local candidates would probably carry the day ), many do not like Wynne or her policies and the stench of McGuinty still lingers. Many of the Liberals I’ve talked to who were on the fence indicated the party didn’t purge enough of the Party to regain confidence in the leadership. So, it is again we like Horwath but are afraid of her party....I have heard some state “remember the last time we voted NDP”, but a lot of others don’t remember that time......so if leadership is the key issue I think Horwath picks up significant recognition, and, urban centres also vote NDP....look at Windsor, we had Cabinet ministers here who were Liberals and they were dumped as punishment and replaced by NDP candidates.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Digital media company lays off workers after getting provincial funding



> A digital media company receiving money from the provincial government’s jobs fund is shedding most of its Toronto workforce, saying it is “realigning” its plans here.
> 
> When the Liberal government announced $3.1 million for Legend 3D last summer, it said the L.A.-based firm would “nearly double its current workforce, creating 271 new jobs and retaining 280 positions in Toronto.”
> 
> However, after a number of layoffs in recent months, the Toronto office will soon dwindle to about 100 employees — although the company says more hires will happen in the future as it takes on new projects.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Hey, Ontariowe, how's that minimum wage hike workin' out for ya?

59,300 part-time jobs cut in January as minimum wage jumps to $14



> Ontario shed some 59,300 part-time jobs in January, the same month the province hiked minimum wage about 20% to $14 an hour — but experts say it may be too soon to know how much the two are correlated.


Ah, yes. Where would we be without the sacrosanct opinions of so-called "experts"...

More:



> Some economists said it’s possible Ontario’s minimum wage increase played a role in those declines, but noted it’s important not to read too much into one month of data.


Right. 'Cause what else could possibly create that kind of a downfall immediately after the legislation goes into effect? Can't have the narrative destroyed now, can we?

Related:

Canada just lost the most jobs in nine years, with biggest drop on record in part-time work

Two points of note:



> • Ontario recorded the biggest decline last month, down 51,000 – – all part-time. It was the largest monthly drop for the province since 2009.
> 
> ...
> 
> • Most of the job losses were in services, which posted a 71,900 decline. Goods-producing employers shed 16,200 jobs during the month


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

So, I don't know if the accusations against Brown are legit or not. That said, there's suddenly a _little_ less legitimacy to them.



> CTV now reports that accuser of Patrick Brown recounts key piece: she was not underage in bar and not in high school but she "stands by her core story" and CTV stands by their original story. In a court of law this would shred a case. CTV credibility is on very, very thin ice.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

A return to real conservatism & not just Liberal-lite?

Sex-ed and other social-conservative hot buttons starting to light up Ontario Tory leadership race



> For more than two years, the Ontario Tories have managed to skirt around the kind of social-conservative flashpoints that have brought them little but grief in the past. But as the party’s leadership race picks up momentum — and a surprise, potential fourth candidate — that unofficial moratorium appears to be ending.
> 
> Two of the three most prominent contenders say they will at least revisit the controversial new sex-education curriculum introduced by the Liberal government, with one charging Monday it is riddled with “Liberal ideology,” the other promising she would allow free votes on questions of conscience. And the newest would-be entrant — Tanya Granic Allen, head of a parents group that opposed the sex-ed revamp — is pledging to make sex-ed and similar issues her prime focus.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

FeXL said:


> A return to real conservatism & not just Liberal-lite?


I was never a big Patrick Brown fan because he was so left-squishy and embraced the prog cash cow, "climate change." 

That's a litmus test for me. I told every PC operative who called me that I would vote for the PCs locally to unseat Wynne, but they could expect no more support than that.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Wow! The cons continue to go down a vacuous road on policy. Both federally and provincially they don’t know what they want to be when they grow up. In Ontario I fear they will be like the federal NDP, no electable leader, no electable policy. The provincial cons are creating non issues which have a history of becoming vote killers...... Sex-Ed is such an issue. Federally the cons continue to distance themselves from ideas of policy most agree with.....such as the carbon tax. Most agree we need to do something but we don’t understand the logic of the carbon tax. Harper had it right in his “us too” approach to policy, namely what ever Martin said he echoed it, but maintained he was a better leader. While leadership may not be as big an issue in the provincial case....policy is king here (which they do not have a consolidated front on ) federally the leader is non existent. This is especially harmful when you consider that JT still has quite a large popular vote.....


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> I was never a big Patrick Brown fan because he was so left-squishy and embraced the prog cash cow, "climate change."
> 
> That's a litmus test for me. I told every PC operative who called me that I would vote for the PCs locally to unseat Wynne, but they could expect no more support than that.


Really that’s all they could ask for.....if they had that Wynne would be gone. But we have too much time left for the cons to step on their proverbial land mines.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Rps said:


> Most agree we need to do something but we don’t understand the logic of the carbon tax.


Most agree that "climate change" is very low on the list of voter priorities.

In Ontario, the sex education issue plays very big with immigrant populations, so this is a real vote splitter.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> Most agree that "climate change" is very low on the list of voter priorities.
> 
> In Ontario, the sex education issue plays very big with immigrant populations, so this is a real vote splitter.


Choose quickly.....carbon tax or sex-ed.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Rps said:


> Choose quickly.....carbon tax or sex-ed.


Elimination of carbon tax, hands down.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Rps said:


> Choose quickly.....carbon tax or sex-ed.


I agree w/ MF.

That said, if I'm understanding the dissension w/ Sex Ed correctly, it's not so much basic Sex Ed but, like the linked article noted, more the "Liberal ideology" embedded in it.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

FeXL said:


> I agree w/ MF.
> 
> That said, if I'm understanding the dissension w/ Sex Ed correctly, it's not so much basic Sex Ed but, like the linked article noted, more the "Liberal ideology" embedded in it.


Someone clue me in, as I'm not up on the issues. What's the "Liberal ideology" embedded in Ontario Sex Ed courses?


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Read the linked article.



CubaMark said:


> Someone clue me in, as I'm not up on the issues. What's the "Liberal ideology" embedded in Ontario Sex Ed courses?


----------



## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

Key accusation against Patrick Brown false, CTV now admits | Toronto Sun


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Ontario’s 50,000 job losses kick off Wynne’s anti-business backfire



> The Canadian jobs market returned to earth with a thud in January, StatCan reported Friday, shedding 88,000 jobs in its worst month since the depths of the recession in 2009. The January drop shows that gushing reports about Canada’s “booming” economy were wildly overstated, ignoring that GDP has been struggling throughout the second half of 2017. GDP growth has slowed from an annual rate of five per cent to less than two per cent as persistent weakness in exports and business investment spread to the housing market.
> 
> Most commentators had wrongly interpreted buoyant employment as representing the underlying trend of the economy when in fact it was an anomaly. Jobs often are an outlier on StatCan’s increasingly cluttered dashboard of economic indicators because monthly employment estimates are volatile. *The ease with which Canada’s commentariat was duped into believing the fable of a booming economy reflects its naiveté that more growth only requires higher doses of monetary and fiscal stimulus while ignoring growth’s long-term determinants such as rising business investment, innovation, productivity and competitiveness in world markets (in fact, excessive short-term stimulus subtracts from long-term potential growth).*


Bold mine.

Ouch...


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

FeXL said:


> Read the linked article.


I did. It's woefully inadequate.

It mentions "Liberal Ideology" without providing context or detail.

There's talk about abortion clinics, which has nothing to do with Sex-Ed in schools.

The only specific mention of Sex-Ed is:

_The sex-ed curriculum, with its teaching about body parts, gender identities, anal sex and masturbation, is at the top of the list, having generated noisy pushback among many families._​
No discussion, not even a quote or specific complaint from the hard-core evangelical christian conservatives the article discusses.

You're going to have to fill in the blanks... What, specifically are the issues with the Sex Ed curriculum introduced by the Provincial Liberals?


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

CubaMark said:


> I did. It's woefully inadequate.
> 
> It mentions "Liberal Ideology" without providing context or detail.
> 
> ...


CubaMark, there has been some push back on the Sex Ed, but in this day and age a lot of it makes sense. Especially the topics of “no means no” and “sexting”. To be honest, it makes more sense to educate the young on these issues than the logarithms I learned in high school.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Rps said:


> CubaMark, there has been some push back on the Sex Ed, but in this day and age a lot of it makes sense. Especially the topics of “no means no” and “sexting”. To be honest, it makes more sense to educate the young on these issues than the logarithms I learned in high school.


That's pretty much my position as well. I'm just trying to figure out what's got the dander up among all these conservative folks... Is there any one issue, or is it just "Sex Ed" as a concept?


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

CubaMark said:


> That's pretty much my position as well. I'm just trying to figure out what's got the dander up among all these conservative folks... Is there any one issue, or is it just "Sex Ed" as a concept?


Many New Canadians and religious groups have gone on the record stating that they believe the curriculum encourages kids to have sex. As a parent, I read the guidelines thoroughly and honestly didn't see anything offensive in it. I suspect much of the concern is from people who either counted on third parties to describe it, or who did no understand what the document was saying.

No child is required to attend classes featuring the curriculum--parents are entitled to pull them out if they object to the material.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

I think that pretty much sums it up MacFury, well put.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Brown calls change in accuser’s timeline ‘monumental’; challenges accusers to press charges



> Former Ontario PC Leader Patrick Brown claimed today that CTV News “fabricated a malicious and false report” about him after a woman who accused him of sexual misconduct said she was in fact not underage at the time of the alleged incident involving the provincial politician.
> 
> The woman, one of two anonymous women who have accused Brown of sexual misconduct, originally told CTV News she was in high school when the alleged event occurred.
> 
> Although the unnamed woman has insisted the new timeline of the alleged incident does not change the core of her allegations, Brown called the new detail “monumental” in a post on his Facebook page Wednesday afternoon and challenged his two accusers to go to police.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Well, isn't that timing _remarkably_ curious...

Ontario Liberal cabinet minister 'sexually assaulted' woman: Lawyer



> Premier Kathleen Wynne was told three weeks ago that a Liberal cabinet minister sexually assaulted and abused a woman, former Liberal MP and lawyer John Nunziata tweeted Thursday night.
> 
> *That was right around the time sexual misconduct allegations emerged against former Ontario PC leader Patrick Brown.*


Bold mine.

Related:

Former Liberal cabinet minister facing accusations of sexual harassment: lawyer



> The provincial Liberals may be dealing with their own sexual misconduct allegations.
> 
> Lawyer John Nunziata tweeted that he’s been retained by a woman who says she was sexually assaulted and abused by a former Liberal cabinet minister, who is no longer in office.
> 
> Nunziata’s client says that while she was the cabinet minister’s executive assistant, the cabinet minister groped and sexually harassed her.


Wouldn't want the headlines from such an incident detracting from the those covering the accusations against Brown now, would we?


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

And now this:

EXCLUSIVE: Patrick Brown passed lie-detector test about sex allegations | Toronto Sun


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

SINC said:


> And now this:
> 
> EXCLUSIVE: Patrick Brown passed lie-detector test about sex allegations | Toronto Sun


I should contract my services to the Ontario PCs, I mean how much worse can I be running the party than they are now. This might be the 3rd election they should have won but lost due to dumbness. Brown is done at the party’s hands. If he loses the leadership ( his own ) the divide will be unreconcilable. If he wins the Libs and NDP will have a field day. Both Libs and NDP will be scouring the ranks for #metoo offenders in a wave of “me too” ism. The question we must ask ourselves is do we want parties governing us who are reactionary without a hint of verifiable evidence or reasonable probable cause.........just ones so willing to eat their young......for me I think not.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Brown needs to stand down for the sake of his party--even if he was entirely railroaded. If this was an oppo-created scandal, then it worked. End of story.

I want the PCs in power, so I hope they select a female candidate who is unlikely to be Me-Too'd out of office--and one who can rip Wynne to shreds, without being called a male bully.



Rps said:


> I should contract my services to the Ontario PCs, I mean how much worse can I be running the party than they are now. This might be the 3rd election they should have won but lost due to dumbness. Brown is done at the party’s hands. If he loses the leadership ( his own ) the divide will be unreconcilable. If he wins the Libs and NDP will have a field day. Both Libs and NDP will be scouring the ranks for #metoo offenders in a wave of “me too” ism. The question we must ask ourselves is do we want parties governing us who are reactionary without a hint of verifiable evidence or reasonable probable cause.........just ones so willing to eat their young......for me I think not.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

My two cents are thus....Brown is done, I agree with your comment. Ford is a bully and may only garner some Toronto ridings....he has history which may not bode well if chosen....Elliott will make this her 3rd try...can you say Hillary.....Granic Allen is a one trick pony....and a trick many might not care about, which leaves Mulroney. She might be the logical choice. The Libs could hardly attack her on getting the job solely because of her name. She would get my vote.


----------



## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

Macfury said:


> Brown needs to stand down for the sake of his party--even if he was entirely railroaded. If this was an oppo-created scandal, then it worked. End of story.
> 
> I want the PCs in power, so I hope they select a female candidate who is unlikely to be Me-Too'd out of office--and one who can rip Wynne to shreds, without being called a male bully.


Agree 100%

And he needs to do it soon.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> Brown needs to stand down for the sake of his party--even if he was entirely railroaded. If this was an oppo-created scandal, then it worked. End of story.
> 
> I want the PCs in power, so I hope they select a female candidate who is unlikely to be Me-Too'd out of office--and one who can rip Wynne to shreds, without being called a male bully.


The issue now is platform. It is a little late to reinvent the wheel. Brown’s platform was accepted by the party, now with a leadership convention creating a new one (Granic Allen ) will cause message problems. Also, as I posted earlier, ad space is running out and the party will have a gap in getting its message across. I’m afraid our only hope to unseat Wynne is the NDP (shudder!!!) not sure if a minority Liberal government would be of service to us.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Rps said:


> The issue now is platform. It is a little late to reinvent the wheel. Brown’s platform was accepted by the party, now with a leadership convention creating a new one (Granic Allen ) will cause message problems. Also, as I posted earlier, ad space is running out and the party will have a gap in getting its message across. I’m afraid our only hope to unseat Wynne is the NDP (shudder!!!) not sure if a minority Liberal government would be of service to us.


Brown's numbers were up even before he announced a platform. I'm not sure a lot of people would know what the PC platform is right now.


----------



## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

Macfury said:


> Brown's numbers were up even before he announced a platform. I'm not sure a lot of people would know what the PC platform is right now.


I think we can say most don't know the pc platform right now.

And the support for the man isn't support for the platform.

Brown needs to do the right thing. Fold his support behind the frontrunner and they need to campaign, campaign and campaign. We've seen what happens here with a muddled platform will do.

But all signs point to a Liberal minority


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

smashedbanana said:


> I think we can say most don't know the pc platform right now.
> 
> And the support for the man isn't support for the platform.


Yes, this is why I was saying to rps that announcing a platform along with the new candidate wouldn't be harmful to the party. It's not like the PC platform is carved in stone with voters.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

What you are forgetting is the internal politics of platform and ad space. We are almost into March, that leaves less than 3 months of ad time. Any ad with Brown that was developed, shot and in the can has to be edited...and if it mentions the People’s Guarantee it has to be scrubbed. I’ve worked on ads and believe me there isn’t much time left to get stuff done if the air has been purchased. Now, what will be new to me is the digital ads. I haven’t worked enough with those to see how they will impact the election. Looking at south of the border twitter and such it will be interesting.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Yeah, I know. A poll...

Half of Ontarians Now Say they Support the PCs



> Toronto, February 17th - In a random sampling of public opinion taken by The Forum Poll™ among 949 Ontario voters, half (49%) say they would support the PCs if an election were held today, an increase of 8 points in just a few weeks (Jan 25: 42%).
> 
> The Liberals have the support of about a quarter (24%), similar to the end of January (Jan 25: 27%).
> 
> ...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Not that I think anybody cares anymore, but...

'I AM SUING CTV': Patrick Brown launches lawsuit over sexual misconduct report



> Patrick Brown has made good on a promise to launch a lawsuit against CTV over a bombshell sexual misconduct story he says is full of “lies.”
> 
> “I am suing CTV,” Brown said in a Facebook post Thursday morning. “My lawyers are talking to CTV.
> 
> “Early this week, CTV lawyers agreed to ensure that all emails, texts and other correspondence related to this travesty are held independently for safe keeping,” Brown said in the post.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Sure Patrick, but you still come across as a creepy guy!


----------



## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

Will be watching tomorrow. But I don't think they will let him run.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

I find it difficult to muster any pity for bloodsucking lawyers, _especially_ those in public service. That said...

Ontario government lawyers being terrorized by ‘bully’ bosses, secret report reveals



> Ontario’s Liberal government has kept secret an explosive report that paints some of its most senior bureaucrats — male and female — as bullies who have harassed and discriminated against hundreds of provincial lawyers and administrative assistants for years.
> 
> The workplace for 600 government lawyers and several hundred administrative staff at the Ministry of the Attorney General is described as a “toxic” cesspool where fear and retribution rule the day, ironically at an Ontario agency branded with the logo “Better Justice Together.”
> 
> One high-ranking government boss is described by a complainant in the report as “a classic bully drunk on her own power.” Crown lawyers working under another executive said he created “an extremely unhealthy and intolerable environment.”


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Your 5 Ontario PC leadership candidates: A Ford, a Mulroney, an unknown, the former leader and the favourite

https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...nown-the-former-leader-and-the-favourite.html


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

SINC said:


> Your 5 Ontario PC leadership candidates: A Ford, a Mulroney, an unknown, the former leader and the favourite
> 
> https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...nown-the-former-leader-and-the-favourite.html


I'll take any of the three that oppose a carbon tax. Thank goodness this gives us a chance to rid ourselves of Brown and his climate ninnyism.


----------



## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

SINC said:


> Your 5 Ontario PC leadership candidates: A Ford, a Mulroney, an unknown, the former leader and the favourite
> 
> https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...nown-the-former-leader-and-the-favourite.html


Almost 2 weeks to go.

Then 3 months till election.

oh boy


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

And the circus continues:

Patrick Brown intends to drop out of Ontario PC leadership race, campaign sources say | National Post

Ontario’s integrity watchdog to investigate ousted Tory leader Patrick Brown | National Post


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Six _whole_ months. Probably to be served on weekends & likely with early release...

Prosecutors seek six-month sent‎ence for former McGuinty chief of staff convicted in gas plants case



> Prosecutors are seeking a six-month jail term for former Dalton McGuinty chief of staff David Livingston, convicted of having computer drives wiped following decisions to scrap gas-fired power plants before the 2011 election.
> 
> “*Only real jail will adequately denounce his conduct and deter others*,” Crown attorneys Tom Lemon, Sarah Egan and Ian Bell said in a submission Monday.
> 
> Livingston’s attempt to stymie requests for details on the politically sensitive closures by a legislative committee of MPPs and the public through freedom-of-information requests was “planned and deliberate,” they added.


Bold mine.

What part of 6 whole months is actually _real_ jail? How about 2 years, minimum?


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Ford declared new leader of Ontario PC party but rival Elliott claims vote irregularities



> Doug Ford, the outspoken former city councilor and older brother of late former Toronto Mayor Rob Ford, has officially been named the new leader of the Ontario PC party but his rival, Christine Elliott says there were "serious irregularities" with the voting process that she will insist be investigated.
> 
> Ford was named leader after a seven and a half-hour delay as rumours swirled about a vote that was too close to call between him and Elliott.
> 
> After a recount, the party declared Ford won on the second ballot as well as the third and final ballot.


MF, where is he on Globull Warming & Carbon Taxes?

As an aside, glad to see that the spawn of yet another lefty politician can't use this as a stepping stone to the PMO...


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Ford is entirely against carbon taxes--but so were the other three candidates. I support his political platform, just hope he can escape the baggage of Rob Ford. I was hoping for Christine Elliott.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Here are five things you should know about new Ontario Tory leader Doug Ford | National Post


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Well, the Ontario PCs have, again, snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. If I was a betting man I would put a few bob on Horwath. While there is a slight whiff of the Bob Rae government still in the air, the odour of the Liberals may far out bury it in the political nostrils of Ontarians. And, this will be a watershed moment for the NDP. If they don’t climb here and now, Andrea is done and so is her party. The Liberals have seen impending doom for about two years now. Replacing Wynne would have been the wise choice, but she will go down with the ship. Frankly, I can’t wait!


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I'll put down $20 against Horwath.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Behold, the return of Ford Derangement Syndrome



> Doug Ford hadn’t even been officially announced as the Ontario PC party’s new leader before media hysteria ensued.
> 
> Contrary to what the naysayers predicted in the lead-up to Saturday’s reveal in Markham, Ford emerged as the victor. And many in the media are displeased.
> 
> It’s hardly a shock that the Toronto Star — which spared no effort in its attempts to dethrone Ford’s late brother, former Toronto mayor Rob Ford — isn’t a fan, though it was amusing to see how the paper twisted itself in knots over the new PC leader.


Related:

PC Leader Doug Ford promises to scrap the Liberals sex-ed curriculum



> “We will repeal it and then we’ll make sure we consult with the parents and teachers,” Ford told reporters. The updated sex-ed curriculum was put into effect by the Liberals in 2015.


From the bits & pieces I've read online, it needs an overhaul.

Related, too:

New Ont. Tory leader says he’s jumping into campaign mode, eager to take on Wynne



> Ontario's newly elected Opposition leader is vowing to spend much of the next three months on the road campaigning for a spring election, saying his party is focused on forming government so it can find efficiencies and shape up the province's finances.
> 
> Doug Ford, who narrowly won the Progressive Conservative leadership late Saturday, laid out his plans to topple the governing Liberals during an unannounced first visit to the province's legislature on Monday, where he met with his new staff.
> 
> "I have to be out there non-stop," Ford said. "As my Dad always said, in business, you aren't getting sales in the office. You've got to get sales outside. We're going to be out on the road. You won't see me in here too often."


Related, three:

Wynne's claim about PC job cuts fake news



> Premier Kathleen Wynne emphatically stated in a recent tweet that Progressive Conservative opposition to federal carbon taxes “will put as many as 40,000 public sector jobs at risk” in Ontario.
> 
> Wynne left little room for misinterpretation.
> 
> But it was fake news. A 37-word fiberal.


Why don't they just call it what it is: an outright lie?

And, frankly, if there are 40k people provincially making their living off the administration of carbon taxes, that number needs to be reduced by at least an order of magnitude anyway...


----------



## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

> Why don't they just call it what it is: an outright lie?
> 
> And, frankly, if there are 40k people provincially making their living off the administration of carbon taxes, that number needs to be reduced by at least an order of magnitude anyway...


40k are not making their living off the administration of carbon taxes. She's talking about the revenue from the carbon taxes. It's being dumped into the abyss of need that is the same as 4% of the budget or roughly 40000 jobs. 

Doug has said he will find 4% of efficiency to replace that revenue when he cancels the carbon tax.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Since when is cutting the civil service supposed to be a bad thing?


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

'Kay. 

Your third sentence could have nicely stopped at "abyss".

Jes' sayin'...



smashedbanana said:


> 40k are not making their living off the administration of carbon taxes. She's talking about the revenue from the carbon taxes. It's being dumped into the abyss of need that is the same as 4% of the budget or roughly 40000 jobs.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Macfury said:


> Since when is cutting the civil service supposed to be a bad thing?


Yeppers.

I'd be very surprised to discover a provincial or federal gov't that couldn't easily take a 20% pruning.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Four Lefties for Doug Ford



> For all of their adult lives, the four men in the room had been ‘leftists’. Before coming to Canada from Pakistan, they had all suffered at the hands of the fascist ‘religious right’ with scars they carried with pride.
> 
> All four had voted for the NDP (and at times Liberal) since arriving in Canada, but on that night in Richmond Hill — north of Toronto — the four were wondering whether they should go to an event hosted by Doug Ford, who was running for the leadership of the supposedly ‘right-wing’ Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario.


More (& the money quote):



> Driving home that night, Zaidi conceded that the Left vs. Right paradigm had shifted dramatically and *the battle today was between cronyism and good governance*.


M'bold.

DINGDINGDINGDINGDING!!! We have a winnah!!!

Related:

Wynne, not Ford, is the scary one



> The real train wreck and dumpster fire in Ontario politics is not the election of Doug Ford as leader of the Progressive Conservatives.
> 
> It’s the financial record of Ontario’s Liberal government over the past 15 years, first under Dalton McGuinty and now Kathleen Wynne.
> 
> Under their leadership, Ontario has become the most indebted sub-sovereign (non-national) borrower in the world, with a current debt of $312 billion, 125% higher than the $139 billion the Liberals inherited from the PCs in 2003.


More:



> The Liberals have already broken Wynne’s election promise to run a balanced budget next year, now saying they will add up to $8 billion to the debt, consistent with their dismal performance of achieving only three balanced budgets from 2003 to 2017 while doubling provincial spending.


Further:



> *Auditor General Bonnie Lysyk says Wynne’s signature Fair Hydro Plan, which the Liberals claim will temporarily lower hydro rates by 25%, will in fact cost taxpayers up to $39.4 billion — almost double what the Liberals claim — including up to $4 billion in unnecessary interest payments.*


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Only a decade? I'd have guessed more.

Lost weekend? Ontario's economy lost a decade: Fraser Institute



> Ontario suffered through a decade of anaemic economic performance as private sector job and median household income growth paled in comparison to most of the country, a new Fraser Institute report shows.
> 
> Ontario’s Lost Decade: 2007-2016, a Fraser Institute Bulletin by Ben Eisen and Milagros Palacios, examines key indicators, including real economic growth per capita and accumulated government debt.
> 
> ...


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Hmmm, quite a lesson to be learned on the real reason for carbon taxes.

GOLDSTEIN: Wynne spills the beans on carbon pricing | Toronto Sun


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

The Globe & Mail doesn't seem to think much of Ford following his radio interview last week....

*Globe editorial: Doug Ford is off to a bad start as PC leader*


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

In reality it was a fair article. I’ve lived in Ford Country. He is a bully, talks before he thinks, is vacuous in developing and understanding policy. Just watch him.....everything thing will be a what without a how, and as the case with most populist candidates...they never answer a question they attack the asker........just watch.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Rps said:


> He is a bully, talks before he thinks, is vacuous in developing and understanding policy.


Wait...I thought this was the Ontario political thread, not the Canadian Prime Ministerial thread...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Little link dump:

Unfiltered Ford is the best chance for a PC victory in Ontario

Foreign funded Leadnow launches vicious attack on Doug Ford

'RECKLESS': Wynne rips Ford’s comments on pot sales

Kathleen Wynne warns students to vote or old white people will decide the election

Ontario NDP Platform Will Include Universal Benefits For Workers

Progressive Conservatives driving towards majority government, poll suggests

Wynne calls for throne speech on Monday; legislature to be prorogued


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Couple more:

Peterson calls Wynne 'most dangerous woman in Canada'



> In this week’s Battleground, author and University of Toronto professor Jordan B. Peterson sounds off on Premier Kathleen Wynne, calling her “the most dangerous woman in Canada.”
> 
> “I’m not a fan of hers, at all … I think that she’s a reprehensible ideologue,” he said. “I think she’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing as well because she’s not a Liberal by any stretch of the imagination.”


I don't know if she's the most dangerous, but she definitely ranks..

Further on "free" drugs & dental:

Dental and prescription drug coverage for all, NDP leader promises



> An Ontario NDP government would ensure universal dental and prescription coverage, Leader Andrea Horwath has promised.
> 
> “Everyone will be covered with the dental plan,” Horwath said. “And they’ll either be covered through work or through their OHIP card… Every single person in our province will be covered with dental and, of course, with pharmacare.”


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Another link dump. Sorry, a couple are dated from last week.

Wynne's right about one old, white politician who needs to go!

Warning! Wynne’s Liberals aren’t dead

Wynne’s throne speech will be a fairy tale

Ontario government pledges millions for horse-racing in 19-year agreement

Ontario's Sunshine List swells to 131,741 workers

Will Wynne’s deathbed repentance work?

Wynne’s throne speech promises new spending on health care, home care and child care in Ontario


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

A billion-dollar plan no one should follow



> In its March 19 Speech from the Throne, Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne’s government asserted, “you cannot be serious about lowering emissions and fighting climate change without a price on carbon pollution.”
> 
> Nowhere did the speech specify what this supposed pollution actually is. That’s probably because, if it did, millions of Canadians would realize that the Wynne government is wasting billions of dollars trying to control a non-pollutant in the forlorn hope that reducing the province’s minimal contribution to worldwide emissions of this non-pollutant will have a beneficial effect on Earth’s complex and ever-changing climate.
> 
> In a March 14 press release, Wynne said that her government is “building a cleaner, low-carbon Ontario.” But carbon is not unclean. Carbon is a solid, naturally occurring, non-toxic element found in all living things. It forms thousands of compounds – far more than any other element. Medicines, trees, oil, natural gas, plastics, paints, food crops, and even our bodies are made of carbon compounds.


More:



> Instead, the premier is crusading against emissions of one specific carbon compound: carbon dioxide, or CO2. Ignoring the oxygen atoms and calling CO2 “carbon” makes about as much sense as ignoring the oxygen in water (H2O) and calling it “hydrogen.”


You mean, just like Climate Barbie does?

Do read the comments.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

FeXL, where I live I think voters have a quandary. Our MPP is NDP and is really very very good. I’ve lived in areas before where you have an MPP not in the mainstream but has done a wonderful job. At issue is, can we take the chance to vote for him..... Ontario with its 15 year Liberal run, 320 Billion debt, debt to GDP of almost 40%, shrinking industrial base, and reluctance to pay down debt when interest rates have been the lowest I can remember, and uncontrollable spending and ludicrous election promises...we can’t afford the Liberals .....yet they’ve managed to pull an election out of a hat before...... Ford is populist .....and with out a realistic platform. You can’t cut government costs without hitting staff levels...not that this wouldn’t a bad thing, but own up to it and say we’re gonna cut...... So I’m waiting for polls within a couple of days of the election....especially in the GTA before I decide.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Rps, I understand where you're coming from. I guess it boils down to what your priorities are and the historical background of the candidate's party. This can become complicated when the party in question has never been in power in your particular province. For instance, contemporary Liberals in Alberta.

In Ontario's case, the NDP would not be a choice for me _if_ I was interested in curtailing spending & balancing budgets. There has not been a provincial NDP gov't in power that haven't been profligate spenders & left the end of their term economically far worse than when they started. That's simple history. Now, if you like that sort of thing, then you can go with the NDP or continue with Wynne. Either way, you'll get the result you're looking for. Frankly, I don't think Ontario can afford either of them. Look what's happened in Alberta under Red Rachel. $100 billion in debt in a single term. Personally, I find that eye-watering.

So Ford's a populist. I find the left's repulsion of populism interesting. Why is populism a bad thing?

Why is his platform unrealistic? Honestly, I haven't seen many details.

Looking from the outside in, it's anybody but Liberal or NDP. Ford is the only choice.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

FeXL it is indeed looking that way that Ford is the only choice. Curious question on populism. From my perspective looking at the latest "populous" choices they are founded on the principle of the vocal minority. Also, many voters have no idea what the global issue is, only the result of a their experience, or hoped experience. While I understand this, the concept of government is based toward the whole. So, while some may say that NAFTA is a bad agreement...when the impact is their business has moved to the U.S. or Mexico, that justification (local) may pale in comparison to the rise in GDP of the country due to NAFTA. A populous position maybe to turf NAFTA, but a global position would keep it. Additionally, social studies in group dynamics have shown that one need only has 35% of a population to affect change........about our voter ratio. One could say that the Liberal sweep was a populous movement. The results speak for themselves.

In Ontario the NDP government here was a disaster. Much, I believe,is due to the flaw in the Westminister System of having Minister from within the elected members. If your party has little history of governing there is a paucity of experienced talent. I see this as Notley's problem, as it was the NDP here in Ontario. We would be better served if our ministers were selected and vetted from the private sector. However, if Ford gets in ( which Im sure he will ) the PC government will not cure our ills....... you can't run a government like a company. But any curtailing of spending will be welcome....in that regard I hope he gets in...but its the "maintaining being elected" that corrupts all governments.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Rps said:


> One could say that the Liberal sweep was a populous movement.


Interesting. 



Rps said:


> In Ontario the NDP government here was a disaster. Much, I believe,is due to the flaw in the Westminister System of having Minister from within the elected members. If your party has little history of governing there is a paucity of experienced talent. I see this as Notley's problem, as it was the NDP here in Ontario. We would be better served if our ministers were selected and vetted from the private sector.


While I agree Notley's motley crew has a paucity of talent (hell, one of them was/is a university student!), her biggest problem is that she's NDP.

What sort of a process would you have in mind for selecting & vetting from the private sector?



Rps said:


> However, if Ford gets in ( which Im sure he will ) the PC government will not cure our ills....... you can't run a government like a company.


In the big picture, I agree. However, that isn't to say that at least some private sector economic common sense can't be applied. I know he's a lot of people's bugaboo but Trump is doing many things along that line. Cutting bureaucratic red tape, reducing the number of regulations, downsizing departments, putting people in charge who are actually interested in things other than perpetuating their positions & retirement funds, draining the swamp, reeling back judicial overreach. 

I've noted before, I'd be surprised to find a single provincial or federal department that couldn't stand a 20% pruning right off the get go (and that's just a start). There's so much duplication of service, inefficiency & make work projects pissing away my tax dollars it makes me want to hurl in technicolour just thinking about it.



Rps said:


> But any curtailing of spending will be welcome....in that regard I hope he gets in...but its the "maintaining being elected" that corrupts all governments.


We've talked about this before, but it also depends a lot on the mindset of the population. I've noted on these boards that Albertans largely hate debt & deficit. Klein had huge support for the cost saving procedures he implemented to roll our debt back years ago. Yes, there were some whose noses were out of joint (some teachers, not all of them, come to mind) who refused to see the big picture but his programs were effective.

We've had a lot of immigration from points in the country who don't carry that same sense of fiscal responsibility that dyed in the wool Albertans possess so it may be a harder sell, but Kenney is going to have to put the brakes on full stop.

Ours is simply f'ing ridiculous. I can't imagine what it feels like to have triple ours & then some hanging over your head.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

rps, the problem was not Rae or Notley, nor their inability to lead, It was the degree to which they managed to express their bankrupt ideology.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> rps, the problem was not Rae or Notley, nor their inability to lead, It was the degree to which they managed to express their bankrupt ideology.


MacFury I can only speak for my experience with Rae"s government.... he couldn't control the lack of experience in the house, and yes his ideology didn't help but it was the inexperience of his elected members that was the real issue....they couldn't possibly execute their platform but tried anyway. And, I think the current NDP leadership in Ontario will still be paying for that.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

FeLX what I would like to see happen is two fold. First, party leaders should be voted on by the electorate in a primary or caucus format as in the U.S. I find it illogical that a party would have me vote for them when I didn't have a say in who runs them. As we don't vote for our Prime Minister, this might be an alternative way.

Second, I maintain that ministers should be the best candidates, which means they don't have to be elected. Have a Cabinet outside of the House. The PM would suggest candidates and they should be vetted by a bi-partisan group similar to what they have in the U.S. I mean really, no one ask the PM "why should so and so be the Minister of X....what qualifications does he or she have?" This is a weakness of the WS in my opinion. Ministers should be non elected and not members of the House.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> rps, the problem was not Rae or Notley, nor their inability to lead, It was the degree to which they managed to express their bankrupt ideology.


I think Notley"s election was a "[email protected]@@off" factor. The trouble is sometimes the protest winner actually thinks they will be around to govern.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Rps said:


> FeLX what I would like to see happen is two fold. First, party leaders should be voted on by the electorate in a primary or caucus format as in the U.S. I find it illogical that a party would have me vote for them when I didn't have a say in who runs them. As we don't vote for our Prime Minister, this might be an alternative way.
> 
> Second, I maintain that ministers should be the best candidates, which means they don't have to be elected. Have a Cabinet outside of the House. The PM would suggest candidates and they should be vetted by a bi-partisan group similar to what they have in the U.S. I mean really, no one ask the PM "why should so and so be the Minister of X....what qualifications does he or she have?" This is a weakness of the WS in my opinion. Ministers should be non elected and not members of the House.


This can mostly be done in our current system. Join a party and vote for their leader, and non-MPs can become ministers. Maybe some provinces don't allow the latter, but I've not heard of that.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Beej, joining a party does not guarantee your say in the leadership process. I think the past 3 conventions prove this. As for non elected members being ministers, it is not allowed. You must be an elected member. Now, if the PM or First Minister took candidates from other parties I might be open to that.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Rps, a slightly dated article on Ford & populism.

In support of populism and Doug Ford



> The usual suspects – Liberals, Dippers and various Red Tories – are out of the gate, attacking Doug Ford, the leader of the Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario, and comparing him to their arch enemy Donald Trump. *A shared offence is that they are both populists, which the dictionary defines as someone who supports or seeks to appeal to the interests of ordinary people. *
> 
> At first blush, that may seem like quite a commendable trait, anchored in our democratic tradition. But not if ordinary people are deemed to be knuckle-dragging, uneducated bigots. And that these deplorables ignore their betters and mindlessly succumb to the hate-filled rhetoric of a demagogue whose raving incompetence will lead to economic disaster and social strife.


Bold mine.

More:



> For urban sophisticates, billions in wasted spending is more forgivable than an occasional grammatical error or crass utterance. Broken promises are less problematic than impolitic language. Political correctness repeatedly trumps common-sense. Deficits are viewed with equanimity and high taxes evidence a caring society. City progressives believe in Keynes, revere Pierre Trudeau, read the Toronto Star (for non-partisan coverage) and can’t decide if they prefer Jagmeet Singh’s turban to Justin Trudeau’s hair.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

FeXL, Ford is no Trump both in policy and practice. In fact, Ford would be more of a Democrat than a Tea Party GOPer.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Rps said:


> Beej, joining a party does not guarantee your say in the leadership process. I think the past 3 conventions prove this. As for non elected members being ministers, it is not allowed. You must be an elected member. Now, if the PM or First Minister took candidates from other parties I might be open to that.


As with the Democrats' super delegates, it's up to party members to change the parties and there are no guarantees (or even one set of primary rules). It's worth looking up the history of the U.S. primary system...messy.

A new law laying out how parties must work would make the system even more rigid than it already is. Instead we can leave parties to live and die by their own rules, and people can force the parties into a primary system...if enough people wanted it badly, bought memberships, and stayed engaged.

On unelected ministers, could you point to the rule? I am aware that it is is exceedingly rare (maybe as few as one, federally), but not that it's against the rules. A "change" candidate could have one high profile unelected minister. Then, if it worked, two or three in their next mandate.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Wynne hiding major cuts to public services?



> What to make of Kathleen Wynne’s promise to “boost” hospital funding by $822 million or 4.6% to tackle Ontario’s hospital wait time and overcrowding crisis?
> 
> Two months before a provincial election vote?
> 
> From the same Premier and government that froze Ontario hospital budgets for years – fueling the nursing shortages, bed shortages, overcrowded emergency rooms, cancelled surgeries and declining care responsible for the crisis?


Questions, questions, questions...


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Oh, she's diggin' deep into that sack of desperation...

Ontario Liberals vow to offer free child care for pre-schoolers beginning in 2020



> Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne has promised to offer free licensed child care for pre-school children starting in 2020 as part of the government’s budget to be released on Wednesday.
> 
> The new initiative, which is touted by the Ontario Liberals as a first in Canada, enables children between the age of two-and-a-half and entering kindergarten to access full-day child care for free.
> 
> “This is going to make a huge difference for parents in Ontario,” Wynne said during the announcement at Nelson Mandela Park Public School in Toronto on Tuesday.


Yuuuuuge!!! :lmao:

Free!!! Free!!! Free!!!


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

That really is desperate.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Beej said:


> On unelected ministers, could you point to the rule? I am aware that it is is exceedingly rare (maybe as few as one, federally), but not that it's against the rules. A "change" candidate could have one high profile unelected minister. Then, if it worked, two or three in their next mandate.


Beej, this is an interesting question. Based on my research it has been a historical convention that ministers come from within the elected party. Harper, a number of years ago during his minority government ask a B.C. Liberal member to walk across the floor to become a Minister. But for the everyday person the rules appear to state it must be a parliamentarian. So an elected member or senator appointed as minister via the GG on recommendation of the PM. The PM recommends senators so this would be as close as it comes to a civilian get a ministerial job. But as for a civilian who is a non parliamentarian becoming a minister I haven't found a wording which excludes that possibility. It might hinge on being a member of the Privy Council...that might be the stumbling block.

I have asked an acquaintance of mine who is an MP to check this out. Another acquaintance who has an MA in Canadian Political Science indicates the Parliamentarian rule is the key, but both will check for the exclusion reference and I will get back to you when I get it.

A great question ?


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## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

FeXL said:


> Wynne hiding major cuts to public services?
> 
> Questions, questions, questions...


One thing is for sure Wynne has come in to fight. With our tax dollars no less.

Hopefully Doug will not take the bait can exclaim enthusiastic cancellation of that TBD program.

EDIT: Quoted wrong post, meant for the childcare announcement.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Rps said:


> I have asked an acquaintance of mine who is an MP to check this out. Another acquaintance who has an MA in Canadian Political Science indicates the Parliamentarian rule is the key, but both will check for the exclusion reference and I will get back to you when I get it.


I look forward to hearing their response.

This guy was an unelected minister. I'm not sure the future prospect of becoming a senator meant anything, or if there was some ceremonial timing detail that made it work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Fortier


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Beej said:


> I look forward to hearing their response.
> 
> This guy was an unelected minister. I'm not sure the future prospect of becoming a senator meant anything, or if there was some ceremonial timing detail that made it work.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Fortier


Hi Beej, there is some logic to “leveling” the Senate appointments when an area is not represented. I his, I think leads to the discussion on PR instead of FPTP.

That’s said, his Senate appointment would qualify him as a Parliamentarian......timing is interesting though. I will get back to you (here) when I get my replies.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Good on him for doing so!

Doug Ford is about to change climate change policy for the whole country - and it’s about time | Financial Post


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Hi Sinc, I put this in the “so what” category. Whether we like it or not the Feds are running the train on climate issues and we shall see who has the clout on this...provinces or the feds. Second, and this goes against many, climate change and the carbon pricing that goes with it are a hot button topic with many voters....Ford might find himself out of step with the electorate in Ontario......hard to believe ( not being facetious here ). 

I think logical voters will realise that the carbon pricing is just a scam to get money and will do little to fix the over all problem as it has a flawed logic and it’s concept is selectively applied.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Rps said:


> I think logical voters will realise that the carbon pricing is just a scam to get money and will do little to fix the over all problem as it has a flawed logic and it’s concept is selectively applied.


As do I. The frightening thing for me is, there seem to be damn few "logical" voters out there.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

No argument.

Nothing Wynne and Sousa say is believable



> Premier Kathleen Wynne’s pre-election budget is a house of cards based on the absurd claims she can spend Ontario rich and that voters can be bought with their own money.
> 
> That her government can be all things to all people by providing unlimited“free” public services.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, it shouldn't take a newspaper article to bring this to light...


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

I won't link directly to a MotherCorpse article but, Wynne's now proceeding with a high-speed rail link between Windsor & Tranna?

Woohoo!!!

Rps, you'll have to take a ride on this 10's of billions of dollars worth of taxpayer funded boondoggle & tell us all about it.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

VIA doesn't even get you from Toronto to Hamilton on some days. You have to get off in Burlington and take a bus the rest of the way.

Truth is, there's no need for a high-speed rail link between Windsor and Toronto.




FeXL said:


> I won't link directly to a MotherCorpse article but, Wynne's now proceeding with a high-speed rail link between Windsor & Tranna?
> 
> Woohoo!!!
> 
> Rps, you'll have to take a ride on this 10's of billions of dollars worth of taxpayer funded boondoggle & tell us all about it.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

FeXL said:


> I won't link directly to a MotherCorpse article but, Wynne's now proceeding with a high-speed rail link between Windsor & Tranna?
> 
> Woohoo!!!
> 
> Rps, you'll have to take a ride on this 10's of billions of dollars worth of taxpayer funded boondoggle & tell us all about it.


FeXL, this has been an election issue in every election that has taken place .... isn’t gonna happen ... not in my life time at least.

But it does open up an interesting thought. I’m not against the high speed rail, it’s just that we are “at the end of the world” here. London is the last major populous until you hit us. So..... hi speed makes sense in lieu of carbon tax as a substitution .... but only for those coming our way or..Detroiters heading to Toronto ( and there are a lot of those ). What I mean by this is the government continues to envoke taxes on areas where there is no substitution..... so we have to pay without a method to move from one commodity to another.

If you look at the carbon pricing model, it really works against our industry and the tax payers. What I would rather see is the government allowing accelerated capital cost allowance write offs for investment in “green technology” in areas that especially draw carbon taxation. So, if you want people to stop buying gas powered cars, don’t fund electric cars through grants, invest in a transportation substitute.....much better public transit.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> VIA doesn't even get you from Toronto to Hamilton on some days. You have to get off in Burlington and take a bus the rest of the way.
> 
> Truth is, there's no need for a high-speed rail link between Windsor and Toronto.


You can take GO. But for the most part you are “currently correct” on the hi speed rail...life stops at London.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Rps, the Union Pearson Express was supposed to take millions of people from the airport to Union Station. It took so few that they had to cut the price by more than half to reach the maximum revenue--and it's still losing horrific amounts of money, 

If a high-speed rail system from Detroit to Toronto moved freight, there _might_ be an argument for it. People? There are not enough potential customers.

Rochester developed a high-speed ferry between Toronto and Rochester that folded in mere months.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Oh I agree MacFury, the link was a rip off so no one bothered. But in the long run these may work out...but as for now I agree.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Rps said:


> Oh I agree MacFury, the link was a rip off so no one bothered. But in the long run these may work out...but as for now I agree.


The Link cost $30 originally and would require the user to haul their own bags and then get off in busy Union Station where they would then need to get a ride to their hotel. With bag fees and a taxi ride to the hotel, you're up to $55.

A taxi from the airport to any downtown location: $55. 

At $13, the cost of the losses is absorbed by taxpayers. However, even on the face of it, any two riders would be better off in a cab.

I don't see the UP Express ever becoming viable when you can get direct service for the same price.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Can't believe so many on the left are so stupid that they don't understand they're being bought with their own money...

Ontario Liberal budget appears to work: New poll shows PCs unable to capture majority



> The Ontario Liberals’ new spendthrift budget appears to have worked. According to a new poll from Forum Research, the party has closed the lead of the Progressive Conservatives.
> 
> The Liberals now have 29 per cent support to the Tories’ 36. According to Forum projections, if an election were held tomorrow, Doug Ford would not be able to win enough seats for a majority.
> 
> ...


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## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

FeXL said:


> Can't believe so many on the left are so stupid that they don't understand they're being bought with their own money...


I don't think this is a left vs right thing at all.

Public dollars being spent to get votes. Sure. But not partisan.

But I mean let's be objective. If you are a minimal wage worker then you are going to support Wynne. If you are union worker same deal. Healthcare employee, pensioner, university student, public sector emplyee etc. etc. the Liberal programs have and will benefit you directly.

Self interest is self interest.

Can we afford these programs? No.

We are carrying $11 billion in interest only on our loans.

But saying no to these programs outright is a bad idea. It will alienate those voters. That is what happened in part last election. 

Ford needs to ramp up and start campaigning. June is not that far off. He's only reacting to what's happening. Being reached for comment.

Doesn't need to attack the Liberal programs directly. Needs to remind voters of what the waste that has accumulated so much debt in the last 12 years. Like the privatization of Ontario Hydro that has resulted in a $6.4 Million salary for the CEO and rates that climb to cover executive compensation... 

And the Orang scandal, the Ontario pension plan, the OLG scandal, the Sunshine list!, and so and so only (sadly)


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

smashedbanana said:


> I don't think this is a left vs right thing at all.
> 
> Public dollars being spent to get votes. Sure. But not partisan.


I disagree. Klein's efforts in Alberta to reduce debt & deficit were largely supported by the right & sharply criticized by the left. Hell, 25 years later & Freddie's still pi$$ing & moaning about his <snort> "40%" cutback.

Jim Prentice was roundly rebuked at the last Alberta provincial election (and one of the reasons Red Rachel got elected) because he was a spendy Red Tory. I've posted about this before. He sent out a survey prior to the election seeking input from voters, the overwhelming theme was fiscal constraint, he ignored the results, created a platform on spend, spend, spend & got his ass handed to him on election night.

Maybe things are different in Ontariowe. I dunno. Here, we don't appreciate being bought with our own money. We'd just as soon it stay in our pockets in the first place & secondly, not lose 50% of its value in the administration thereof by a gaggle of inefficient, unionized, unneeded public "service" employees...


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Some people you just cannot reach...

‘I would do it again and I would do it proudly,’ Mississauga MPP says about tripling provincial debt



> Longtime Mississauga-Streetsville MPP Bob Delaney became visibly agitated during a budget event Thursday (March 29) after being pressed by local media on the economic viability of his party’s recently released budget.
> 
> The Liberal MPP met with constituents and local media during a “budget breakfast” at a Streetsville eatery to discuss the document and field questions.
> 
> ...


More:



> “For the past 15 years, I’ve been part of a government that has built this province,” he said, later adding, “*We have tripled (the debt) and we’re proud of it, because we can afford it. It’s the responsible thing to do.* It’s the correct thing to do, it’s what people have asked us to do and I would do it again and I would do it proudly.”


Bold mine.

:yikes:

His arrogance is palpable.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

FeXL said:


> Some people you just cannot reach...
> 
> ‘I would do it again and I would do it proudly,’ Mississauga MPP says about tripling provincial debt
> 
> ...


If this guy were any dumber he would have to be watered!


----------



## 18m2 (Nov 24, 2013)

This is a telling statistic from the article.



> Ontario has become the most-indebted sub-sovereign jurisdiction in the world under the Ontario Liberal Party’s watch — with twice the debt and half the population of California.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

18m2 said:


> This is a telling statistic from the article.


Yeah, it's a fact that's come up a few times in the past. And this idiot is proud of that fact!

I guess I'll just never understand the type of person who would elect somebody who would make that number worse. It's simply beyond my ken.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Toronto could easily vote for Kathleen Wynne again, thrilled to be bought with their own cash.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Rps said:


> If this guy were any dumber he would have to be watered!


Not only that, but he's now a liar.

Recording confirms MPP Bob Delaney's comments of pride in tripling debt after he denies them



> Mississauga-Streetsville Liberal MPP, Bob Delaney, is denying comments he made during a budget event last week in Mississauga while defending his party’s economic record and latest budget.
> 
> On Monday (April 2), Delaney denied having made the comments to both Global News Radio AM 640 and the National Post Radio Show on SiriusXM Radio, while calling in to question the accuracy of a Mississauga News article reporting his comments.
> 
> ...


Yep, my bold.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Interesting...

PC leader Doug Ford gets warm reception in NDP, Liberal hotbed of Hamilton



> Who said a Ford can’t roll into the heart of NDP and Liberal country and leave a tire mark?
> 
> Doug Ford not only wanted to prove it could be done, he even put on a red tie as part of his pitch.
> 
> ...


----------



## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

From page 13, Ontario's net debt per capita may have passed Quebec's in 2017-18.
http://www.rbc.com/economics/economic-reports/pdf/provincial-forecasts/prov_fiscal.pdf

Net debt over GDP is still lower, but I think Ontario has a chance at passing Quebec in the 2020s. They're trying so hard, after all.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Kathleen Wynne is just giving voters what they want--everything, at once.



Beej said:


> From page 13, Ontario's net debt per capita may have passed Quebec's in 2017-18.
> http://www.rbc.com/economics/economic-reports/pdf/provincial-forecasts/prov_fiscal.pdf
> 
> Net debt over GDP is still lower, but I think Ontario has a chance at passing Quebec in the 2020s. They're trying so hard, after all.


----------



## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Macfury said:


> Kathleen Wynne is just giving voters what they want--everything, at once.


Ontarians can teach Quebec a thing or two about incompetent governance. I underestimated them for too long.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

A few links.

Doug Ford Heading For Dominant Majority

Kathleen Wynne’s pledge to spend billions on a bullet train makes zero sense

Who Controls Third Party Spending in Ontario? Unions – But That Could be Changing

Related:

Ontario Liberals paid English Catholic teachers’ union $31-million as part of settlement for wage increase delays

Ontario Obsession: How Wynne’s Wind Power Cult Wrecked Once Prosperous Province

Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne is crushingly unpopular — but why?

I'll consider that a rhetorical question...

Ontario’s Economic Performance worst in Canada Study Finds

Wynne’s Liberals Floundering As More Ministers Abandon Ship


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Let's talk billion dollar choo-choo's s'more!

Kathleen Wynne, feeling that Disney magic, has got a super train for you



> Among the many spending plans the Liberals trumpeted in their pre-election budget is $11 billion for a high-speed rail line from Toronto to Windsor. The line, it promised, would pay for itself by generating billions in new revenue as people and industry flock to be near it. “I’m very excited,” said Transport Minister Kathryn McGarry. “This is a project that can look to see $20 billion worth of economic activity — due to high-speed rail.”


Ontario to fund Toronto-Windsor high-speed rail



> “We have to be bold and visionary right now and invest in the kind of future we know we are capable of. This is just no time for government to sit still and let opportunities pass Ontario by. The best time to build high-speed rail was 30 years ago. The second best time is right now, so we are taking action. We are going to build this line — because high-speed rail is going to unlock so many benefits for people and businesses across Southwestern Ontario,” said Premier Wynne.


The boldest & most visionary thing Ontarion's (?) could do right now is kick her ass out the door & down the steps...


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Ontario Liberal budget fails to woo voters as PCs gain double-digit lead: Ipsos poll



> The Ontario Progressive Conservative Party led by Doug Ford would easily move into majority territory if a provincial election were held tomorrow, despite a number of high-profile budget promises by Premier Kathleen Wynne’s Liberals, according to a new Ipsos poll conducted on behalf of Global News.


More:



> Big budget spending goodies such as free child care for pre-schoolers, dental care for those who don’t have coverage through their jobs and billions of dollars for hospital and mental health services, seems to have flopped for the Liberals, according to poll results.


So, what's she do now? Double down or roll back?

I'm betting large on the former.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

FeXL said:


> Ontario Liberal budget fails to woo voters as PCs gain double-digit lead: Ipsos poll
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So here is what I would do....

1. Finish off the NDP in close ridings. The Libs have virtually stolen every aspect of the NDP platform, so finish the job....attack their history of governance.

2. Use the Hudak method. Scare the sh*t out of people that the PCs will scrap all social programs and even levy a charge for breathing .... let’s face it how can you cut costs in government without cutting program and jobs.

3. Paint the landscape with “we are the party that will listen to you.” 

4. I wouldn’t target Ford in an attack campaign.....I would target their program....the how and what.

Attacking Ford gives the PCs what they want I think...a platform to bash the preem.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Rps said:


> Scare the sh*t out of people that the PCs will scrap all social programs...


How can I ensure this comes about?


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

So, Wynn'e pre-election budget has accomplished two things:

1) Convinced some NDP supporters to vote Liberal, and
2) Downgraded Ontariowe's credit rating.

Wynneing! Moody’s downgrades Ontario



> Is it any wonder that Kathleen Wynne wants you talking about how Doug Ford is just like Donald Trump, or just about anything else, as long as it is not Ontario’s credit rating.
> 
> Moody’s downgraded Ontario’s credit rating today from “stable” to “negative” and how some warnings about the books in the future. The reason for this downgrade? The Wynne budget that ramped up spending in a bid to stay in power.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Further to the above.

Moody’s just downgraded Ontario’s financial outlook to ‘negative’



> A key ratings agency has downgraded its outlook on Ontario’s finances to “negative” from “stable” in light of the Liberal government’s plan to run six consecutive multibillion-dollar deficits.
> 
> Moody’s Investor Services says spending pressure will challenge the province’s ability to “sustain balanced fiscal results” over a number of years.
> 
> Moody’s also says financing requirements on the province’s debt —projected to be $325 billion in 2018-2019 — will be larger than previously believed, leading to a faster increase in interest expenses.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Kathleen Wynne accuses Doug Ford of acting like Donald Trump



> Seven weeks ahead of Ontario’s provincial election, Premier Kathleen Wynne repeatedly compared PC leader Doug Ford to U.S. President Donald Trump.
> 
> The premier made the comments at an announcement about hospital wait times at Toronto’s Sunnybrook hospital Wednesday morning.
> 
> “Doug Ford sounds like Donald Trump, and that’s because he is like Donald Trump,” Wynne said. “He believes in (an) ugly, vicious … brand of politics that trafficks in smears and lies. He’ll say anything about anyone at any time.”


So, does that make her Bill's Wife? Well, we all know what happened to her...

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Gawd, the pi$$ing & moaning that'll go on for months afterward will be almost, I say, _almost_, intolerable... 

Related:


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Looks as bad for Wynne as it does for Notley.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Please let this come true!


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

SINC said:


> Looks as bad for Wynne as it does for Notley.


Not sure about that. The most recent poll, and yes I do think they are manipulated by the sponsor, has the PCs ahead but only 12 points ahead of the Liberals who hold 26% and the NDP with 23%. I find this interesting and a bit scary. 

However the Liberals are campaigning in exactly the wrong manner ( what’s new here ). They are attacking Ford as a Trump clone, which he is not. By them not focusing on the PC lack of policy it makes them look desperate. And as we know, desperate parties can do some strange things with a month and a bit to go. The GTA will be the key again! 

MacFury I’m sure can add comment there. I’m thinking it’s going to be a 905-416 battle again and there could be some surprises.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Macfury said:


> Please let this come true!


Crossing my fingers & toes, MF...


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Torontonians are always ready to jump on the gravy train, so don't count it out. However, there appears to be a grudging realization that Wynn'e's time is done.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> Torontonians are always ready to jump on the gravy train, so don't count it out. However, there appears to be a grudging realization that Wynn'e's time is done.


And that is why it’s too early to count them out. Could be working towards a minority government. If that is the case it could be scary as the PCs have little policy...although that was a federal Liberal ploy for years. Can’t see the PCs and the NDP getting into bed together, yet I’m sure Andrea is just steaming at the policy theft by the Liberals. So, wondering if the NDP and Liberals might form (again) a coalition....remember how well that worked last time......


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Rps said:


> So, wondering if the NDP and Liberals might form (again) a coalition....remember how well that worked last time......


If the numbers I'm reading are anywhere close to accurate, between the two of them they _still_ don't have enough for a coalition.

Check that. According to the stats in the second article linked below...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Classy guy.

Wynne’s campaign manager calls Doug Ford a “dick” on TV, here is what you need to know about him



> David Herle puts the ass in class it appears. During an interview with CP24, the all-news station in Toronto, Herle, who is also Kathleen Wynne’s campaign manager, called Doug Ford “a bit of a dick.”
> 
> If you thought Ontario’s premier and her team would be taking the high road in this campaign, think again. After trying and failing to paint Ford as Ontario’s Donald Trump, they are now resorting to comparing the leader of Ontario’s PC Party to bits of genitalia.
> 
> ...


New poll puts Ontario PCs in 'super-majority' territory, NDP as opposition



> The Ontario PCs would win a strong majority if a provincial election was held today, and the NDP would form the Official Opposition, a new poll suggests.
> 
> Forum Research found that 46 per cent of decided or leaning voters said on April 18 that they would support the Ontario PCs if a vote were held today, compared to 27 per cent for the NDP and 21 per cent for the Liberals.


And, the next two articles related to the meme below.

Asylum-seekers will be fast-tracked to Ontario starting next week



> Starting next week, asylum-seekers arriving through the Canada-United States border could be fast-tracked to shelters and services in Ontario if that is their preferred destination.
> 
> After a cry for help from Quebec, which claims there could be 400 refugee claimants coming into Canada each day this summer, federal officials said they are working on a “triage” plan.
> 
> It’s not clear yet whether refugee claimants will be flown, bussed or sent on a train, but those who indicate, upon arrival, that they want to go to Toronto will soon be hustled out of Quebec.


Congratulations, MF!

Cities across Canada want to let non-Canadians vote in municipal elections



> The City of Vancouver recently became the latest in a string of Canadian cities to join the fight to give permanent residents a vote in municipal elections.
> 
> In a unanimous decision this week, the city voted to appeal to the province of B.C. on the motion. Similar proposals have been put forth in other Canadian cities in the past, including Toronto, Calgary and Hamilton, *with little success*.


M'bold.

For now...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Further on the first link in the above post.

Hurle hurls ‘dick’ smear to detract from Liberals’ scandalous record



> David Herle has plenty of reasons to fear Doug Ford. Millions, in fact.
> 
> Herle currently serves as Kathleen Wynne’s campaign co-chair and is a prominent Liberal strategist and advisor who’s been long and intimately involved with provincial and federal Liberal election campaigns.
> 
> He and his firm also earned $3.4 million from his Ontario Liberal friends over the past several years, a nice bonus associated with his other job – consultant and owner of The Gandalf Group, a national public opinion research and communications firm.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Ontario’s ‘lost decade’ under the Liberals



> The Liberals’ record deluge of red ink has already significantly damaged Ontario’s economy.
> 
> It’s also the reason for broken Liberal election promises in the past, just as I believe Wynne will break many of the promises she’s making today if she wins on June 7.
> 
> Since the best indicator of future performance is past practice, consider what the Liberals did at the very start of their regime 15 years ago.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

What is it about Liberal's of all stripes lying about their budgets? Or do they just lie about everything? And why don't their supporters care?

In scathing pre-election report, Ontario auditor general says deficit is $11.7B, not $6.7B



> Ontario’s fiscal watchdog is again questioning the government’s accounting, warning the province’s deficit projections are far greater than outlined in last month’s budget.
> 
> Auditor general Bonnie Lysyk, who has an ongoing accounting dispute with Premier Kathleen Wynne’s Liberals, said Wednesday that this year’s shortfall is $11.7 billion, not $6.7 billion, as Finance Minister Charles Sousa forecast March 28.
> 
> “When expenses are understated, the perception is created that government has more money available than it actually does,” Lysyk wrote in a scathing 27-page pre-election report to the Legislature.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Bonnie Lysyk has been an honest broker in her role--I would trust her report.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Macfury said:


> Bonnie Lysyk has been an honest broker in her role--I would trust her report.


Related:

Auditor general’s report could spell trouble for all three of Ontario’s political parties



> History, like politics, has a way of repeating itself. Especially at election time.
> 
> In opposition 15 years ago, Ontario’s Liberal Party smelled a rat. They accused the Tory government of the day of cooking the books.
> 
> ...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

How the Liberals are playing right into Doug Ford's hands



> First Ford vowed to fire the head of Hydro One, as if this were a solution to high power bills. The experts quickly dismissed this as foolishness. Of course Ford couldn’t fire the guy. Didn’t he know the government no longer controls Hydro One?
> 
> The Liberals quickly rode to the rescue. Turns out Ford can fire CEO Mayo Schmidt, he just has to fire the board first. That power was retained by the Liberals. The next line of defence was to argue that Schmidt’s $6.2 million salary is in some way reasonable. Well, maybe, but then we found out that the Hydro board had agreed to give Schmidt $10.7 million in severance if he were let go.
> 
> All that led right into Ford’s narrative about Liberal insiders getting a sweet deal. Right, Donald Trump all over again. Drain the swamp. Then Liberal campaign manager David Herle rose up out the swamp, praising the late Rob Ford with characteristic Liberal sincerity, but dismissing Doug Ford as “a bit of a dick.”


Interesting little sequence that doesn't end there.


----------



## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

FeXL said:


> How the Liberals are playing right into Doug Ford's hands
> 
> Interesting little sequence that doesn't end there.


No real surprises here. Terrible, but not surprising.

Look at the severances they paid out to the short lived Ontario Retirement Pension Plan.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Doug, don't fall into the trap of buying people off with their own money. It's one of the things that's garnering you a ton of support. The far left ain't gonna vote for you no matter what you dangle in front of them so quit dangling. You'll p!$$ of your base & the trade-off ain't worth it.

Doug Ford’s Ontario PC party offering 75 per cent child care rebate if elected



> Doug Ford’s Progressive Conservative party has announced they will cover 75 per cent of child care for Ontario families if elected.
> 
> The Tories said they will cover up to $6,750 per child under the age of 15 and estimate it will cost the government $389 million annually.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Agreed.



FeXL said:


> Doug, don't fall into the trap of buying people off with their own money. It's one of the things that's garnering you a ton of support. The far left ain't gonna vote for you no matter what you dangle in front of them so quit dangling. You'll p!$$ of your base & the trade-off ain't worth it.
> 
> Doug Ford’s Ontario PC party offering 75 per cent child care rebate if elected


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Liberals plan $16 billion cuts to jobs and programs?



> The bad news isn’t that Ontario’s Liberal government deliberately fudged the province’s books this year.
> 
> Or that they’ll run a $12 billion deficit in 2018, some $5 billion higher than advertised, a second provincial watchdog has now confirmed.
> 
> *It’s that Kathleen Wynne, should she get re-elected, will need to slash government spending by $15 billion annually by 2025 – cutting the equivalent of some 90,000 nurses, teachers and other public sector jobs – to balance her government’s out-of-control budget.*


Bold mine.

Since when has a Liberal ever been interested in balancing a budget?


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Buyin' more votes...

Wynne commits funding to Toronto transit projects, including relief line



> Premier Kathleen Wynne has announced that her government will commit to funding a trio of major transit projects in Toronto, including the long-discussed relief subway line.
> 
> Wynne made the announcement at GO Transit’s Willowbrook maintenance facility on Thursday morning as she formally signed a memorandum of understanding with Mayor John Tory for the construction of SmartTrack.
> 
> She said that her government will help pay for the construction of the relief subway line, the Waterfront LRT and the Yonge North Subway Extension as part of a previously announced bilateral agreement with the federal government.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)




----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

CubaMark said:


>


The real joke is that Ford WILL become premier of Ontario.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Doug Ford campaign confirms actors were hired to play the part of PC supporters at Monday’s debate rally*










Doug Ford’s campaign has confirmed that actors were hired to play Progressive Conservative supporters outside the Monday night leaders’ debate in the June 7 provincial election.

“We were very confused by this situation, because we are getting record numbers of supporters to every event across Ontario. This was done by a local candidate and it won’t be continuing,” Ford’s spokeswoman Melissa Lantsman said in an email.

Apparently campaign officials for Toronto Centre Tory candidate Meredith Cartwright, a prominent lawyer, hired the actors to rally for Ford at Dundas Square outside the CityNews television studio.

Ford said he was not aware of the situation.

“That’s the first I’ve heard of that,” Ford told reporters at a news conference Tuesday.

(Toronto Star)​


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

CubaMark said:


> *Doug Ford campaign confirms actors were hired to play the part of PC supporters at Monday’s debate rally*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It baffles me the games politicians seem to think they need to play. You know what voters really want? An honest politician who does what he/she says they will do.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Where were all your posts decrying this behaviour when Barry & Bill's Wife, among other notable lefties, were doing the exact same thing?

I mean, yeah, I think this is garbage, but once again your hypocrisy rears its ugly head.



CubaMark said:


> Doug Ford campaign confirms actors were hired to play the part of PC supporters at Monday’s debate rally


----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

CubaMark said:


> *Doug Ford campaign confirms actors were hired to play the part of PC supporters at Monday’s debate rally*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The FAKE crowd was paid less than the legal Ontario minimum wage! 2pm to 8pm 0r 6hrs for $75.....


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Guys, parties have been doing for years....... geeez get with the programme.


----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)




----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)




----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)




----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

Rps said:


> Guys, parties have been doing for years....... geeez get with the programme.


Undoubtably true, the tactic in still manifestly pathetic!


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Rps said:


> Guys, parties have been doing for years....... geeez get with the programme.


So have the faked craigslist ads in which various political parties supposedly troll for people to misrepresent themselves as supporters.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Only 10?

10 good reasons not to vote Liberal



> If the best indicator of future performance is past practice, then 10 key findings by the independent, non-partisan Ontario Auditor General suggest why it would be a bad idea to re-elect Premier Kathleen Wynne’s Liberals next month:


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Scott Reid’s Partisan Deeds



> Thanks to his own ri-dick-ulous behaviour, David Herle is now a household name.
> 
> But ol’ Diamond Dave’s been hogging the spotlight far too long of late. He’s not the only Liberal strategist with a history of inserting his foot into his own mouth at the most inopportune time. The infamous former Paul Martin comms guy and speechwriter Scott Reid, a.k.a Mr. “Beer and Popcorn“, has also stepped up to try and shield the Wynne Liberals from destruction.


More:



> I understand that you want a fighter on your team when you’re dealing with the likes of Doug Ford, but it’s absolutely imperative that said fighter knows how to fight effectively. *As you will soon see, a Scott Reid battle plan usually involves the equivalent of punching himself (and others around him) in the genitals repeatedly.*


M'bold.

Ah! Dinner & a show...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

So now, suddenly, there's a shortage of nurses in ON?

Wynne touts hiring of 3,500 new nurses and warns electing Ford means health-care cuts



> Trailing in every poll, the Liberal leader said if she is re-elected June 7 her party will be able to deliver on its promise to hire the nurses this year.


Related:

Kathleen Wynne responds to Star investigation on crowding at mental-health unit, saying it shows more people are coming forward to get help



> Southlake Regional Health Centre was the subject of a Star investigation that revealed how overcrowding is causing problems for patients and mental-health workers. The Ontario premier said increased awareness is putting more strain on the system.


Or the prospect of further Liberal gov't...


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

> The Ontario premier said increased awareness is putting more strain on the system.


Increased awareness of progressive malfeasance is putting more voters in the PC column.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Macfury said:


> Increased awareness of progressive malfeasance is putting more voters in the PC column.


Woohoo!!!

Win/win!!!


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

SINC said:


> The real joke is that Ford WILL become premier of Ontario.


Seems like I am not the only one who knows this will be the outcome of the Ontario election:

Diane Francis: Doug Ford will win the Ontario election, and he will be a breath of fresh air to all of Canada | Financial Post


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

SINC said:


> Seems like I am not the only one who knows this will be the outcome of the Ontario election:
> 
> Diane Francis: Doug Ford will win the Ontario election, and he will be a breath of fresh air to all of Canada | Financial Post


Sinc, I will be the first to eat crow on this but I think Ford will be a disaster as a Preem. I think he will get in, and from early signs where I live, by a landslide ( here ). But he does not have any idea of policy....what we are seeing is Patrick Browns package and none of his own creation. But to be fair, he didn’t have much time to sit with the crew and develop. People like Ford always talk a good story but they can’t answer the simple question of “ how will we pay for this”. The Liberals and NDP we already know their answer.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

MacFury, what’s the latest on NDP polls in the GTA? There is a rumble of an NDP minority government.... (shudder!!!) I’m not getting good GTA numbers here in Windsor, your view please.


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

Rps said:


> Sinc, I will be the first to eat crow on this but I think Ford will be a disaster as a Preem. I think he will get in, and from early signs where I live, by a landslide ( here ). But he does not have any idea of policy....what we are seeing is Patrick Browns package and none of his own creation. But to be fair, he didn’t have much time to sit with the crew and develop. People like Ford always talk a good story but they can’t answer the simple question of “ how will we pay for this”. The Liberals and NDP we already know their answer.


That is the problem with the parties we have now. I will take the PC over the rest as the lesser of the evils. Obviously having a policy in Government means jack all as no one follows it and the Liberals have been burning OUR money for far to long. It is frustrating to even hear Wynne talk and let us know how she will fix and make our province better. The games all politicians play at election time make my skin crawl and wish I had the sort of money that I could just buy a small island and live in isolated luxury. 

How Wynne thinks she is fooling anyone by having all these great ideas at election time and how anyone can even believe it is ludicrous. There will come a time when there is no more money, when we can no longer pay for teachers, police, firemen or anyone else working for us the tax payer. Look at Detroit, Greece and other places. We are not magically immune. Our spending is out of hand. Sure it would be amazing to have all these great things but personally I am not willing to wanting to pay more taxes and I am guessing everyone else in the country is not willing to pay more taxes to have more services. People want it all but are not willing to pay for it.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Wondering, I agree. One of the issues here in Ontario, I believe, is the corrupt leadership. That really was the issue with Detroit. You wouldn’t believe the stuff that went on there over the years.......and bankruptcy was the final result......Ontario will follow along that line I think.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Rps said:


> MacFury, what’s the latest on NDP polls in the GTA? There is a rumble of an NDP minority government.... (shudder!!!) I’m not getting good GTA numbers here in Windsor, your view please.


I'm not feeling the love for the NDP--only a reluctant acceptance that Wynne must be replaced by Ford.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

We can't even afford the generously larded pensions of government workers, let alone every other spending item. Indiana is bankrupt--can't even pay suppliers--and its biggest worry is making sure government workers get fat pensions. Their latest proposal was to levy a $2,500 yearly tax on any home worth more than $250,000, _just to cover pensions_.



wonderings said:


> That is the problem with the parties we have now. I will take the PC over the rest as the lesser of the evils. Obviously having a policy in Government means jack all as no one follows it and the Liberals have been burning OUR money for far to long. It is frustrating to even hear Wynne talk and let us know how she will fix and make our province better. The games all politicians play at election time make my skin crawl and wish I had the sort of money that I could just buy a small island and live in isolated luxury.
> 
> How Wynne thinks she is fooling anyone by having all these great ideas at election time and how anyone can even believe it is ludicrous. There will come a time when there is no more money, when we can no longer pay for teachers, police, firemen or anyone else working for us the tax payer. Look at Detroit, Greece and other places. We are not magically immune. Our spending is out of hand. Sure it would be amazing to have all these great things but personally I am not willing to wanting to pay more taxes and I am guessing everyone else in the country is not willing to pay more taxes to have more services. People want it all but are not willing to pay for it.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> I'm not feeling the love for the NDP--only a reluctant acceptance that Wynne must be replaced by Ford.


Are we seeing a Peterson/Rae or a 905/416 election do you think?


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

Macfury said:


> We can't even afford the generously larded pensions of government workers, let alone every other spending item. Indiana is bankrupt--can't even pay suppliers--and its biggest worry is making sure government workers get fat pensions. Their latest proposal was to levy a $2,500 yearly tax on any home worth more than $250,000, _just to cover pensions_.


Another thing that makes me cringe is government workers demanding job security. They have good jobs and get paid VERY well for what they do. Goes across the board, teachers, police, fire, utilities and the rest. I would love to demand job security but it is unrealistic and fantasy outside of working for our government. There will have to be cuts sometime, we just cannot keep spending as we do and we will have to make cuts to our services, it is the reality of our situation.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

wonderings said:


> Another thing that makes me cringe is government workers demanding job security. They have good jobs and get paid VERY well for what they do. Goes across the board, teachers, police, fire, utilities and the rest. I would love to demand job security but it is unrealistic and fantasy outside of working for our government. There will have to be cuts sometime, we just cannot keep spending as we do and we will have to make cuts to our services, it is the reality of our situation.


We wouldn't have to make cuts in services if their salaries and benefits were in line with reality.


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

Macfury said:


> We wouldn't have to make cuts in services if their salaries and benefits were in line with reality.


They would be out of business if they operated like any proper business should. Government employees should be thankful they have work and are making the money they are.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Wynne's cap-and-trade scheme sinking Liberals



> If Ontario’s carbon pricing scheme is such a great idea, why aren’t Liberal Leader Kathleen Wynne, and the NDP’s Andrea Horwath, who supports it, praising it to the skies on the campaign trail?
> 
> Thanks to a new Ipsos-Global TV poll, now we know why.
> 
> ...


Two things surprise me about those numbers:
1) The number of NDP who recognize carbon taxes as a cash grab and;
2) The number of Libs who don't...


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

FeXL said:


> Wynne's cap-and-trade scheme sinking Liberals
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I really do not put any trust in those polls. Barely over 1000 people polled is a tiny fraction of the voting populace and can hardly be used to give a broad indication of what the masses really thing. Though I do agree and hope the carbon tax nonsense is erased with the next ruling party.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> I'm not feeling the love for the NDP--only a reluctant acceptance that Wynne must be replaced by Ford.


MacFury, hard to believe but it looks like the NDP are in it this time......not saying they will win but it looks like they are getting some traction.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Rps said:


> MacFury, hard to believe but it looks like the NDP are in it this time......not saying they will win but it looks like they are getting some traction.


I think they're likely to be the official opposition.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Well... that's interesting....

*NDP (37%, +2) Now Tied with PCs (36%, -4) as Two-Horse Race Intensifies, Liberals (23%, +1) Well Behind*
(IPSOS)


----------



## FUXL (Nov 2, 2016)

*Who needs Hudak when you have Thug Ford?*

G'mornin' fascist condoning armchairistas!

Perhaps this is a tad bit optimistic but definitely indicative of the move away for Thug Ford.






[ame]https://youtu.be/dABynV4sV9U[/ame]


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/onvotes/poll-tracker/

This on the other hand says there is an 82.4% probability the PCs will form a majority government.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

SINC said:


> https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/onvotes/poll-tracker/
> 
> This on the other hand says there is an 82.4% probability the PCs will form a majority government.


Thank goodness the NDP is quarantined to smaller sections of the province.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> Thank goodness the NDP is quarantined to smaller sections of the province.


Don’t be too sure! Remember this is the election that has the 17 seat increase, which may come back to haunt the Libs for sure. The North has gained 2 riding, and the North might be NDP slanting. The GTA will be a crap shoot, but, if the voters decide to go with the NDP, look out....that 17 seats is a huge % increase .


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Rps said:


> Don’t be too sure! Remember this is the election that has the 17 seat increase, which may come back to haunt the Libs for sure. The North has gained 2 riding, and the North might be NDP slanting. The GTA will be a crap shoot, but, if the voters decide to go with the NDP, look out....that 17 seats is a huge % increase .


I'll put some cash on it.


----------



## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Macfury said:


> I'll put some cash on it.


What odds on an NDP majority or minority?


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

<shudders...>

Scratch a Leftist……



> Find a BDS supporting, Israel targeting, sanctuary supporting, No One is Illegal Boosting politician that also wants a huge carbon tax.


More:



> _How big of a carbon tax do you want to pay? If Joel Harden, the NDP candidate in Ottawa Centre has his way it will soon be at least $150 a tonne.
> 
> *That would work out to almost 35 cents a litre in extra tax every time you visit the gas pumps.*_​


Bold mine.

I've heard of virtue signalling but this fruit loop is out to lunch. There are idiots in the province who would support this?


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

What Andrea Horwath’s sanctuary plan means for Ontario healthcare



> Andrea Horwath wants to offer santuary and healthcare to anyone that comes to Ontario.
> 
> There has been plenty of debate over what Andrea Horwath’s plan to make Ontario a sanctuary province means, especially when it comes to healthcare. Bottom line, it will mean anyone that wants “free” healthcare in Ontario will get it.
> 
> ...


If Ontariowe can't afford Wynne's Liberals any longer, they sure as hell can't afford the NDP, either...


----------



## FUXL (Nov 2, 2016)

The good news continues as Ontarians are turning away from Thug Ford with a goal of changing his name to Thud Ford on June 7.

OnPulse

It will be interesting to see what affect Wynne's debate performance has on the NDP surge.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Wynne certainly has nothing to lose. Libs projected to collect as few as three seats.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Yeah, let's talk about those polls for a minute...

The latest Ontario polls show … confusion?



> EKOS reports a dead heat.
> Innovative Research shows a 5 point PC lead.
> Forum alleges a 14 point NDP lead, with the Liberals half of what’s reported in the other two polls.
> 
> We need to ask at this point — do these pollsters do their surveys on the same planet? Or do they make them up as they go along?


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

I jes' luvs it when those little snippets of candor sneak past the internal censor...

Ontario NDP candidate embroiled over blowing up 'gun nuts' comment



> Etobicoke Centre NDP candidate Erica Kelly, who posted that she would not be sad if “gun nuts” were blown up by a drone, has now apologized for the comment.
> 
> “I know this is horrible to say… but I would not be sad to see these gun nuts threatening civil war have their asses blown to f–k with a drone,” Kelly said. “I mean, really, if only just to see their ‘tyranical government’ 2nd amendment argument blown to smithereens.”


Related:

Horwath reveals true colours in debate



> Horwath has put a new spin on the old left-wing slogan – Bread Not Circuses, except what the province needs is bread and butter government, and she increasingly appears prepared to deliver a circus.
> 
> She derides 15 years of Liberal rule in Ontario that has grown our net debt by 134% to a projected $325 billion, and Horwath’s solution is to just pile it on.
> 
> ...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

NDP leader a fan of chichi shops



> Andrea Horwath may have lunch bucket roots but the NDP leader’s tastes appear to run more on the champagne socialist side of things.
> 
> A review of NDP expenses filed with Elections Ontario shows Horwath has a taste for custom clothes and shops extensively at the luxury retailer Holt Renfrew.
> 
> ...


Ah, yes. Another one of those politicians claiming to represent the "middle-class"...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Horwath says political attacks she is facing make people cynical about politics



> On Friday, the Progressive Conservatives alleged an NDP candidate in Scarborough, Tasleem Riaz, had made offensive comments online, including a post from 2013 quoting Adolf Hitler, and a release sent by the Liberals on Saturday morning cites the post and describes the New Democrats as “too risky, too radical.”


People's cynicism about politics wouldn't have anything to do with the commies quoting Hitler at all, now, would it?


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Okay, so based on my viewing and opinion Wynne won the debate hands down, Horwath as a clear second and Ford looks like a deer in the headlights and clearly looked out of his league.

So here are the choices for Ontarirans.... Wynne will loose, half to her current policies and half as the albatross called McGuinty is still around the Liberal’s necks. Horwath has the ghost of Bob Rae, and to a certain extent Notley....after all NDP policy is NDP policy. Ford will inherit Hudak disease.

I am more inclined to predict an NDP victory....the GTA will, again, determine this due to seat allocation. If Ford wins it will be a minority government which won’t last a prelim budget....then watch the Liberals take over.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Wynne's albatross is Wynne--she tried desperately to make it look like McGuinty. She came off as someone who has just discovered that Ontarians are suffering, as though she wasn't responsible for those problems. Ontariois an expensive place to live in large part because of her policies.

Horwath came off as a big spender. There wasn't even an iota of suggestion that she could balance a budget any more than Rae or Notley could.

Ford has fairly expressionless eyes, but his ideas were the best of the three.

If the vote were held today, I would predict a slim PC majority.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

I can’t make that call right now. You are closer to the GTA than I am. Here I think the NDP candidates are a lock. Remember we have 17 new risings, that is a huge increase over the past 107 seats. If they go NDP then I see a majority....as I have said prior Horwath is perceived as a credible leader and she is with out a doubt in the game. That said, if she loses...I think she’s done.


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## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

Did not watch or listen to the debate but there is absolutely zero Wynne could say that would get my vote. The Liberals have pissed away our hard earned money for far to long. Anyone who would vote for the Liberals is out of their mind simply based on the neglect this current government has for our tax paying dollars. You can talk all day about how you want services and how nice it would be to have free daycare and all the rest, but it is worthless if there is no money. I am assuming no one here wants to pay even more in taxes. We are not immune and the rate we are going we will have zero services, no public "servants" because we cannot pay any of them.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

One of Wynne's core support groups are people too wealthy to care how their money is spent. Virtue signaling through taxes means they'll have to go their winterized cottage for a week instead of to Whistler, or put off a date for their collie at the dog spa.

That said, I have driven through Wynne's riding and the signs with her name are extremely sparse, even there.



wonderings said:


> Anyone who would vote for the Liberals is out of their mind simply based on the neglect this current government has for our tax paying dollars.


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

Macfury said:


> One of Wynne's core support groups are people too wealthy to care how their money is spent. Virtue signaling through taxes means they'll have to go their winterized cottage for a week instead of to Whistler, or put off a date for their collie at the dog spa.
> 
> That said, I have driven through Wynne's riding and the signs with her name are extremely sparse, even there.


They are all over the place here. I scratch my head when I see them on peoples lawns.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> That said, I have driven through Wynne's riding and the signs with her name are extremely sparse, even there.


My Liberal contacts are hinting she may not win her own riding. She is in a heartless riding and the fact that you are a party leader doesn’t seem to matter. If memory serves me well wasn’t her riding held by John Tory before she won it.


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

Rps said:


> My Liberal contacts are hinting she may not win her own riding. She is in a heartless riding and the fact that you are a party leader doesn’t seem to matter. If memory serves me well wasn’t her riding held by John Tory before she won it.


Why would being a party leader matter? Vote the best person for the job. People should be heartless with our politicians and they should know their jobs are on the line when they screw up.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Oh I agree, but history has shown the riding which has a high ranking member usually gets to play with more toys.


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

Rps said:


> Oh I agree, but history has shown the riding which has a high ranking member usually gets to play with more toys.


I think they generally place them in ridings that are sure things to get them in.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Rps said:


> My Liberal contacts are hinting she may not win her own riding. She is in a heartless riding and the fact that you are a party leader doesn’t seem to matter. If memory serves me well wasn’t her riding held by John Tory before she won it.


Yep, Tory was here the year he stupidly offered to fund all religious schools.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> Yep, Tory was here the year he stupidly offered to fund all religious schools.


Yup, I advised against that......he didn't get it . Im surprised he won as mayor. He always had a habit of taking a non issue and being defeated on it.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Rps said:


> Yup, I advised against that......he didn't get it . Im surprised he won as mayor. He always had a habit of taking a non issue and being defeated on it.


I didn't want him to win, but he's done OK--in a wishy washy sort of way.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

FeXL said:


> NDP leader a fan of chichi shops


Huh... I was expecting something quite different. Here in Mexico, "chichi" has an entirely different meaning... 



FeXL said:


> Ah, yes. Another one of those politicians claiming to represent the "middle-class"...


Where does Doug Ford get his wardrobe, I wonder?


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

This is excellent advice.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Ford wants to find $6B worth of ‘efficiencies’ without cutting jobs: is that even possible?*
_Ford's rhetoric around government waste gives the impression there are public servants burning money in the parking lot_










After the final leaders’ debate on Sunday, Ontario voters now face a choice between two parties paying for their promises with money they would have to borrow and one party funding them with cuts it can’t explain.

While deficit spending may be nothing new to Canadian voters, Progressive Conservative leader Doug Ford’s promise to trim nearly $6 billion from the provincial budget without cutting any jobs is unusual.

And it raises an obvious question: is it even possible?

* * *​
Third party assessments peg the amount of true waste in most governments at around 2-3 per cent, but it could be that the people conducting this polling just don’t understand what most voters mean when they talk about government waste. For example, a person who disagrees with their country’s foreign policy will be inclined to see all military spending as wasteful. The experts are usually talking about government departments paying too much for printer paper.

* * *​
Ford has several recent examples of cost-cutting to read up on, but all of them involve cutting jobs.

After forming government in 2007, the Harper government launched a strategic review of spending which, by the 2010-11 fiscal year, had found more than $2.8 billion in ongoing savings. A Parliamentary Budget Office review of the cuts asked departments to describe how the savings were achieved and the public works department alone reported eliminating 687 positions in 2010.

The Harper savings were about half the amount Ford hopes to find, despite the Ontario budget being about half the size of the federal one. That means Ford’s cuts will have to be about four times deeper — and presumably, four times more painful — than the Harper ones.

* * *​
... the blowback on cuts happened for the Harper government when they couldn’t clearly explain why a cut was needed and that’s why the knife can’t be wielded arbitrarily.

“There isn’t a line in the public accounts called ‘waste,’”

(National Post)​


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

It's possible, but I see no reason not to cut jobs as well.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> It's possible, but I see no reason not to cut jobs as well.


I agree on both counts cut costs and it may involve losing jobs. Really easier than it sounds from a dollar and sense point of view....but from a political perspective....not so much.

Here would be my first items...

1. Only one school board....less duplication right down to the trustee level.
2. Review public funded purchase practises....
3. Eliminate red and white health cards
4. All government departments make decisions under the same mission statement “ to provide effective and economical service to Ontario”

Just a start but there has to be 4 Billion there.


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## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

CubaMark said:


> *Ford wants to find $6B worth of ‘efficiencies’ without cutting jobs: is that even possible?*
> _Ford's rhetoric around government waste gives the impression there are public servants burning money in the parking lot_
> 
> 
> ...


The reality is there needs to be cuts. We cannot continue to spend spend spend. Why is this so difficult for people to understand? They want all the same services but they do not want to pay to keep those services. We are not made of money, there is no endless troff of funds we can keep taking from. If we continue down this path we will be the next Detroit or Greece and yes it is a real possibility not some fear mongering. If he can somehow do this without cutting jobs great, but I have no issue with cuts as going bankrupt will be far far worse and see many more people lose their jobs as well as a serious loss of services. 

Job security should have never been a bargaining point with unions and the government. Completely unrealistic and moronic in my opinion.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

> Just a start but there has to be 4 Billion there.



And maybe even enough to help pay for some of the about-to-be unemployed's unemployment payments. ;-)


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

_Some numbers that may be helpful to add to the debate. I have a number of criticisms of Wynne's policies over the years (the partial privatization of Hydro One chief among them), and that number sure has heck is intimidating. At least needed infrastructure spending makes up part of the debt, which will provide long-term benefits. In any case, a bit of context:_

The Ontario government debt is the net amount of money the Government of Ontario has borrowed from the general public, institutional investors and public-sector bodies. *As of March 31, 2018*, the Ontario government's *total debt* is projected to be *CDN$348.79 billion*. The *Debt-to-GDP ratio* for 2017-2018 is *37.1%* and interest on the debt is CDN$11.97 billion, representing 8.0% of Ontario's revenue and its fourth-largest spending area.
(wikipedia)​
A July, 2016 article by Global News noted:

...is $300 billion in debt (about $21,600 for every resident) enough to sink Ontario financially over the long term? Probably not, according to at least one expert, but that level of debt does carry significant risks.

* * *​
Compared to other provinces, Ontario’s situation looks particularly dire on the surface. Between 2003-04 and 2015-16, the province’s debt level increased more than any of its neighbours, and it easily takes the prize for highest net debt of any province or territory. (Quebec, however, still has more debt per resident, at just over $22,700.)

* * *​
“Ontario, at less than 40 per cent (debt-to-GDP), is absolutely not in that kind of trouble.”​
Economists have not established an ideal debt-to-GDP number, but economically troubled *Greece*, in contrast to Ontario, *has a ratio around 175 per cent.*

According to Block, there is also continued appetite in financial markets for Ontario’s debt, meaning investors still expect to get their money back, and “a sizable proportion” of Ontario’s debt is going towards investment in infrastructure.

"Those investments increase economic productivity, which increases GDP, which increases the capacity to pay taxes and pay off that debt. And it’s also important socially.”​


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

FWIW, Wikipedia's overview of the growth of Ontario's debt notes that much of the increased occurred under McGuinty during a period of recession:

The government of Ontario's debt has risen under all governments since 1989.

During the 1990s recession, the Ontario New Democratic Party (NDP) government of Premier Bob Rae increased the total debt from $35.4 billion in 1989-1990 to $90.7 billion in 1994-1995.

The Progressive Conservative government of Premier Mike Harris increased the debt from $90.7 billion in 1994-1995 to $132.6 billion in 2002-2003, even while cutting services and downloading formerly provincially-run services onto the municipalities.[8] In the 1999-2000 budget, the Mike Harris government paid $3.1 billion towards the total deficit by selling the rights to the government-owned Highway 407/ETR in the form of 99-year lease to a private consortium.

The Liberal government of Premier Dalton McGuinty, in part due to the Great Recession, increased spending on social and energy programs and uploaded services from the municipalities, doubling the total debt from $132.6 billion in 2002-2003 to $268.0 billion in 2013-2014.[9]

The Liberal government of Premier Kathleen Wynne, in part through the sale of Hydro One shares, delivered a $600-million surplus in 2017-2018.[10][11] However, it projects deficit spending until 2024-2025 if it remains in power.[10]​


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Bring back Mike Harris!


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## FUXL (Nov 2, 2016)

Thud! Ford. More to come!

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/th...rio-election-poll-the-ndp-lead-keeps-growing/


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Good thing those online polls are so weak!


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

FUXL said:


> Thud! Ford. More to come!
> 
> https://www.macleans.ca/politics/th...rio-election-poll-the-ndp-lead-keeps-growing/


Amazing this arsehole thinks anyone cares that he posts the occasional misguided comment. Or is that babble? Somebody should phone his phone company boss and report him.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

The NDP circus has come to town



> When one of your candidates posts a meme quoting Adolf Hitler, it’s difficult to feel any sympathy for Andrea Horwath’s complaint Saturday that attacks on her candidates are “disappointing.”


Liberal campaign co-chair Deb Matthews says the relationship between the Ontario NDP and Cornerstone Leadership Corp., “a for-profit business with some of the province’s most powerful unions” compromises the party.

Ah, yes. The compassionate, intellectual, left:

Star NDP candidate carried 'F--- the police' protest sign



> Back in 2006, there was no ambiguity over how the NDP candidate in Brampton East felt about Toronto Police.
> 
> *“F— the Police,” said the protest sign that Singh, the brother of federal NDP leader Jagmeet Singh, carried during a downtown demonstration more than a decade ago.*
> 
> Pathetic.


Bold mine.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Well...Saaalute!

Today is Menstrual Hygiene Day in the City of Toronto.


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## FUXL (Nov 2, 2016)

Hey arsehole, more good news. Doug the Thug goes Thud!

Innovative Research:


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Under that scenario, Doug still wins--hooray!


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> Under that scenario, Doug still wins--hooray!


Well, I’ve been looking at some numbers and talking with some people and I think you might be right MacFury....I’m guessing the PCs will grab 71 seats, NDP 46, Libs 6 and the Greens 1


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

That seems reasonable. FuXL must be crying tears of grief with the latest data showing NDP support falling. Don't know why he isn't more upset about his beloved Liberals going down the dumpster. 



Rps said:


> Well, I’ve been looking at some numbers and talking with some people and I think you might be right MacFury....I’m guessing the PCs will grab 71 seats, NDP 46, Libs 6 and the Greens 1


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> That seems reasonable. FuXL must be crying tears of grief with the latest data showing NDP support falling. Don't know why he isn't more upset about his beloved Liberals going down the dumpster.


Well, as you know I am a Liberal, but I believe that from McGuinty on they have not been punished enough for their blatant mismanagement ( some might say bordering on fraud ) handling of the province and now, sadly the federal government. It might be years before I would consider voting for them again. My quandary here is we have a great MPP who is NDP, but they NDP might be worse than the Libs. Tough choice this time. While we are talking party, I think the Greens have the most reasonable platform.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

The Greens don't resonate at all with me. Everything is about government programs--enforced equality, public transit, more "renewable energy" fiascos and the fairy tale that they can control the climate. They might pick up a seat in Guelph, though.



Rps said:


> Well, as you know I am a Liberal, but I believe that from McGuinty on they have not been punished enough for their blatant mismanagement ( some might say bordering on fraud ) handling of the province and now, sadly the federal government. It might be years before I would consider voting for them again. My quandary here is we have a great MPP who is NDP, but they NDP might be worse than the Libs. Tough choice this time. While we are talking party, I think the Greens have the most reasonable platform.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Yes, I see Guelph going to the Greens as well.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

So Ford has come up with a sure-fire way to not get derailed by any problems with his mathematics ability by... simply not putting numbers (that matter) on things....

*Doug Ford's PCs reveal "final'; campaign platform that has no fiscal outlook* | CBC News

After months of promising to release a fully costed campaign platform, the Progressive Conservatives have published an online list of promises that doesn't include a detailed fiscal plan.

Overnight on Tuesday, the PCs quietly revised their campaign website to include "For The People: A Plan for Ontario."

In the document, the PCs reiterate a number of promises already laid out by their leader, Doug Ford, including a pledge to cut taxes for the middle income bracket and businesses, reduce the price of gasoline by 10 cents per litre. They also promise hundreds of millions of dollars for various infrastructure projects.

The plan reveals how much each commitment is expected to cost, but makes no mention of the at least $6 billion of "efficiencies" Ford has previously said a PC government would find. It also doesn't specify when a PC government might balance the province's budget.

* * *​
Ford and his campaign team have repeatedly promised to publish a fully costed platform before election day. Back in March, when the Liberals released their 2018 budget — which formed the backbone of their own platform — Ford criticized the Liberals for putting forward figures he characterized as shoddy. 

(CBC)​


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I already know where Wynne took us and where Horwath promises to take us. I'll take a chance on Ford.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

All Ford needs to do to win is to campaign on "Not Wynne" & he'll make it.

I find it hilarious that all these so-called "journalists" are suddenly financial experts, calling him out for his financial numbers, when they'd never once paid attention to anybody else's.



CubaMark said:


> So Ford has come up with a sure-fire way to not get derailed by any problems with his mathematics ability by... simply not putting numbers (that matter) on things....


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

FeXL said:


> All Ford needs to do to win is to campaign on "Not Wynne" & he'll make it.


_In a two-horse race, sure. But there's a third mare out there, and she's pulling ahead:_

*
NDP now in majority government territory, new poll suggests*

Support for Kathleen Wynne’s Liberal party appears to have collapsed, putting the NDP rather than the Tories in the best position to form a majority government in two weeks’ time, a new poll suggests.

The Forum Research poll of 906 randomly selected Ontario voters has determined that 47 per cent of decided or leaning respondents now support the NDP compared to 33 per cent for the PC party and just 14 per cent for the Liberals.

Forum Research says the results suggest that if an election were held today, the NDP would get a majority government with 79 seats while the Tories would serve as the Official Opposition with 40 seats.

The Liberals, meanwhile, would end up with five seats, losing official party status in the process.

“I think at the end of the day about 60 per cent of Ontarians are progressives, either left or centre left, and I think they are starting to coalesce and they have picked one of the two parties, the NDP, as the best able to defeat Doug Ford,” Forum Research President and CEO Lorne Bozinoff told CP24 on Friday morning. “We don’t have the old party loyalty anymore so people change their vote at the drop of the hat.”

* * *​
Bozinoff said that while Ford has had “some stumbles” on the campaign trail the shift in voter intention may be attributable to the collapse in Liberal support.

“I am kind of surprised to see the Liberal vote really collapsing. We had them at 21 per cent a couple weeks ago which is a disaster on its own and now we have them down at 14 per cent. I think it is because Doug Ford has really scared those liberals and they are going to vote NDP to defeat Doug Ford,” he said.


(CP24.com)​


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

_Mildly_ understated...

Horwath a weak leader with unsavoury candidates



> I wanted so badly for her to convince me Thursday she was not a weak leader, one who was prepared to acknowledge and be accountable for the posse of radical, bordering on dangerous candidates, who’ve been revealed almost daily in the past two weeks.
> 
> But instead of conceding she did not sanction in the slightest the activities of the 12 or so anti-Israel, Hitler-meming, anti-war, anti-poppy, anti-police, ****-calling, civil disobedience-promoting candidates, NDP Leader Andrea Horwath kept pivoting to her bumper sticker-like messages of unicorns and rainbows — all, of course, offered for free.


Related:

Facebook was hacked, says NDP candidate with Hitler meme post

NDP candidate targeted police chief with racial slur


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

These tiny samples show how little people are willing to pay polling firms these days.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

CubaMark, I don’t see it that way. My sources are leaning to a PC win. I’ve already posted my projections so I will be more than willing to eat crow or be publicly flogged....but I’m seeing a PC win and the Liberals almost losing party status.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Are these the same polls that predicted a win for Bill's Wife?

Jes' askin'...



CubaMark said:


> In a two-horse race, sure. But there's a third mare out there, and she's pulling ahead


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

FeXL said:


> Are these the same polls that predicted a win for Bill's Wife?
> 
> Jes' askin'...


Dunno. Did Toronto-based Forum Research do any polling for Clinton?


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Doesn't matter. My point is, with the correct sampling, you can make any poll support any thing.

In Bill's Wife's case the polls were either deliberately wrong (with an eye to swing voters) or the pollsters were wilfully ignorant of the data before them.

I see the same thing happening in Ontariowe. The left is so afraid that Ford will get in, they're willing to obfuscate, stretch, cheat or outright lie in order to ensure it doesn't happen.

FWIW, I think Ford will get a majority, NDP will be a _distant_ 2nd & I hope the Libs get decimated. A single seat would be about 5 too many. I'd love to see Wynne lose hers. Nobody cares about the Greens. 

My predictions come from reading news sources other than the MSM & ignoring the polls almost completely.



CubaMark said:


> Dunno. Did Toronto-based Forum Research do any polling for Clinton?


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

The NDP’s in bed with Big Labour? So were the Liberals



> Successful politicians must be able to keep a straight face no matter how hypocritical they’re being when they attack another political party.
> 
> For example, Ontario Liberal campaign co-chair Deb Matthews accused NDP leader Andrea Horwath Wednesday of being too close to eight major labour unions because of their relationship with the party through a union-funded business called Cornerstone.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

PC majority predicted once again:

The Forum Poll - PCs lead


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Rps said:


> CubaMark, I don’t see it that way. My sources are leaning to a PC win. I’ve already posted my projections so I will be more than willing to eat crow or be publicly flogged....but I’m seeing a PC win and the Liberals almost losing party status.


The poll he's referring to is already a week old. It's a habit of his to treat history as news.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Macfury said:


> The poll he's referring to is already a week old. It's a habit of his to treat history as news.


The CP24 story with the NDP majority prediction appeared in an aggregator - yes, I should have checked the date._ Mea culpa._ 

(Hey FeXL! Look! This is how normal people admit to their mistakes - try it sometime!).


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

That's how dead people die again!



CubaMark said:


> The CP24 story with the NDP majority prediction appeared in an aggregator - yes, I should have checked the date._ Mea culpa._


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Really?

Have I got a 10 page list for you to work on then... :lmao:

You can start with Clock Girl, move onto the Alternative Energy Thread, then the Electric Car=Bad Idea Thread. With all the bull$h!t you've posted on those threads that has been debunked (multiple times, I might add) has been apologized for, we'll move onto the Political threads.

I'd keep my calendar open if I were you, CM. I see you booked for the next coupla months...



CubaMark said:


> (Hey FeXL! Look! This is how normal people admit to their mistakes - try it sometime!).


----------



## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

FeXL said:


> In Bill's Wife's case the polls were either deliberately wrong (with an eye to swing voters) or the pollsters were wilfully ignorant of the data before them.


On "polling" it's worth separating a few things, particularly for the 2016 U.S. election.

1) National polls
2) State polls
3) Electoral college models
4) Probabilities of winning

#4 is crap in most circumstances, so toss it.
#3 is tricky, but largely reliant on #2.
#2 even in battleground states, these are not as scrutinized as #1. Worth a look.
#1 got the popular vote pretty well, but before the last couple weeks I saw evidence of, in the minimum, a form of confirmation bias.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Beej said:


> On "polling" it's worth separating a few things, particularly for the 2016 U.S. election.


Agreed.

If memory serves the most accurate polls throughout the campaign were from, of all places, the LA Times. In fairness, I never checked to see how big their sample sizes were.


----------



## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

FeXL said:


> If memory serves the most accurate polls throughout the campaign were from, of all places, the LA Times. In fairness, I never checked to see how big their sample sizes were.


LA Times had a fixed group of people they repeatedly sampled from. It was an interesting model (at least one of the Ontario pollsters is using something similar), but did have one funny quirk:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/13/...-is-distorting-national-polling-averages.html


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Beej said:


> LA Times had a fixed group of people they repeatedly sampled from. It was an interesting model (at least one of the Ontario pollsters is using something similar), but did have one funny quirk:


Interesting methodology.

I find the _NYT_ criticism interesting in the face of the _LAT_ polls placing among the most accurate in the country, certainly more accurate than their own.

They note that this particular methodology increases the margin of error. That could be partially offset by a larger sample size.

Thx for the link.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Quelle surprise. The Red Star endorses the Commies...

Ontario voters should back NDP to stop Doug Ford

See? It's not about the best party for the job. It's about anybody but Doug Ford.

If you want the urge to hurl in technicolour, you can click on the link & read how they lave Wynne's outstanding record.

And, it's been revealed elsewhere that Horwath may now be receptive to working with the Liberals in a coalition. What could possibly go wrong with a Commie/Rent Seeker duet? Can you imagine the fallout? The province would never recover...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

#NotFastEnough … Kathleen Wynne To Concede She Will Not Be Re-Elected Premier

<snort>

Not Fast Enough.

I love it.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

_The Star _began this campaign wondering why everyone hated Wynne's Liberals so much despite their sterling record. They were writing it off to misogyny. 



FeXL said:


> Quelle surprise. The Red Star endorses the Commies...
> 
> Ontario voters should back NDP to stop Doug Ford
> 
> ...


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

The latest EKOS poll has the PCs in the lead once again, but weeping FuXL is silent.


----------



## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

Sat down tonight to play xbox one with the kids, noticed there is a Doug Ford add running. "Buck a Beer" "vote Doug Ford".


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Macfury said:


> _The Star _began this campaign wondering why everyone hated Wynne's Liberals so much despite their sterling record. They were writing it off to misogyny.


The only hand the Progs ever play. If it ain't misogyny it's homophobia. If it ain't homophobia, it's racism. If it ain't racism, it's Islamophobia. If it ain't Islamophobia, it's misogyny.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> _The Star _began this campaign wondering why everyone hated Wynne's Liberals so much despite their sterling record. They were writing it off to misogyny.


Wow! The Star thinks the Libs have a sterling record?............... I got nuthin!


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Rps said:


> Wow! The Star thinks the Libs have a sterling record?............... I got nuthin!


The general way it's expressed: sure, the Liberals have had some problems, but considering all of their major achievements, it seems only prejudice can explain the voters' anger toward Kathleen Wynne. They're so tone-deaf that they can't understand why a carbon tax is not universally praised as an achievement.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

You know, I’m still bothered by the re-jig of the ridings.... those 17 seats plus the number of ministers not seeking re-election bother me projection wise.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

This bothers me.

Foreign-funded activist group helping Andrea Horwath's NDP



> If Andrea Horwath wakes up as Premier of Ontario on June 8, she may have a shadowy foreign-funded group out of Vancouver to thank for her win.
> 
> Leadnow was set up in British Columbia in 2011 by a pair of young Canadians with the full support of a Tides Foundation backed group that sought to organize for left-wing causes.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Like many of them, do as we say, not as we do...

Controversial NDP candidate an apparent "energy hog"



> Controversial Scarborough-Agincourt NDP candidate Tasleem Riaz is an apparent “energy hog” who was taken to the Landlord and Tenant Board last July for not paying her air-conditioning bill, her landlord told the Toronto Sun Friday.
> 
> Ed (he didn’t want last name used), the landlord of the 60-unit Thorncliffe Park building where Riaz resides, said of 60 tenants, she has the fourth highest hydro bills (heat, electricity and A/C) and three air-conditioners in her two-bedroom apartment.


More:



> “She is head over heels most people in the building (in terms of energy consumption),” he said. “Yet the NDP talks (continually) about conservation.”


Yep...


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Rob Ford’s widow sues Doug Ford, alleging he has deprived her and her children of millions*

The widow and children of Toronto mayor Rob Ford have sued Doug Ford alleging he has deprived them of millions of dollars, including shares in the family business and a life insurance policy left behind to support his family.

In a $16.5-million lawsuit, filed Friday in Superior Court, Renata Ford also alleges that Doug Ford is a “negligent” business manager whose decisions have led to a steady decrease in the value of the Ford company, Deco Labels. Despite setting his sight on a political career, Doug has continued to receive “extravagant compensation,” even though Deco is losing money, Renata claims in her court filings.

Doug Ford has “knowingly and deliberately put (Renata and her two children) in a highly stressful and unfair financial position during their period of grief after Rob Ford’s death, and continued to do so for more than two years after Rob Ford’s death,” the statement of claim alleges.

* * *​
Diane Ford sent the following statement through Doug’s spokesperson.

“It is heartbreaking that Renata has chosen to bring forward these false and baseless allegations against our family, right in the middle of the provincial election campaign. As a family, our one goal is to ensure Rob’s children are cared for and their financial futures are secure. Renata has serious struggles with addiction, and our hope is that she will accept help for the sake of herself and my grandchildren,” Diane said in her statement.

(Toronto Star)​


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Phhhtt, will change nothing. That is a private family issue.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Now share some dirt on Horwath, CM!


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Macfury said:


> Now share some dirt on Horwath, CM!


Always happy to oblige with dirt.

Here's some for you:

The Alberta NDP. Worst accidental government ever.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Doug Ford finds millions in efficiencies in brother’s widow’s inheritance*

Etobicoke, ON – After Renata Ford, his brother’s widow, accused him of stealing money from her Rob Ford’s estate, Doug Ford issued a statement showing how his cost-cutting measures actually help his brother’s family.

“The Rob Ford estate was bloated and wasteful. So much of it was going towards healthcare, his children’s education, housing, and other inessentials,” explained Doug Ford. “But how much money do his two kids and their mother really need? It’s far better to put that money into private enterprises, like my bank account.”

Under Doug Ford’s guidance the Rob Ford estate has cut hundreds of thousands of dollars of fat thus creating a far more streamlined inheritance. The resulting bequest has helped struggling inner-city Doug Fords across Toronto with only a minor impact on his dead brother’s family.

(The Beaverton)​


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Man, The Beaverton started off weak, but it's on life support now.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> Man, The Beaverton started off weak, but it's on life support now.


Been doing some checking and it appears the PCs will still hold their seat total projections. So, the NDP will win big in the urban areas but the PCs will take everything else. It’s weird, but it’s like the popular vote vs seat vote. Sound familiar?

The riding to watch, again, is Peterborough....... for the last 44 years how it voted indicated the government. This might be the time for the non PC governments to look at PR like B.C.sez they are trying to do........ right !


----------



## 18m2 (Nov 24, 2013)

Trying to do?

Yes, but damn the BC government has made it complicated. The three proposed systems will make the referendum question to difficult for some people and will make them either not bother to vote or vote for first past the pole.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/proposed-ball...s-voting-reform-referendum-unveiled-1.3951914


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Electoral reform tends to get pushed when the party in power thinks it will benefit from it. In Ontario, we had a crazy citizen's group appointed by the provincial government sending letters to everyone in the province prior to the referendum describing "your new voting system" as though it was a sure thing. Ontario rejected it wholesale and the results were blamed on Ontarians who weren't smart enough to see the advantages of the proposal.



18m2 said:


> Trying to do?
> 
> Yes, but damn the BC government has made it complicated. The three proposed systems will make the referendum question to difficult for some people and will make them either not bother to vote or vote for first past the pole.
> 
> https://bc.ctvnews.ca/proposed-ball...s-voting-reform-referendum-unveiled-1.3951914


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Macfury said:


> Ontario rejected it wholesale and the results were blamed on Ontarians who weren't smart enough to see the advantages of the proposal.


Curious, that. It's never the flaws in the freshly proposed system. It's always the ignorant unwashed plebs...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

From green hair and red boots to loose-bolt socialist



> It seems that every day another loose bolt falls off Andrea Horwath’s election machine, proving yet again that her slate of NDP candidates is comprised of wide-eyed activists, hard-core unionists and situationally-oblivious socialists who have no idea how to govern.
> 
> All in all, they’re a very sorry collective.
> 
> In my home riding of Ottawa Centre, for example, we have Joel Harden, another one of those social justice warriors running for the NDP who used to jaunt around with green hair and sporting a pair of red Doc Martens, all while trying to “stop an aggressive conservative government from picking on the poor.”


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

ETFO gives teachers marching orders to vote NDP



> They’ve designated NDP leader Andrea Horwath their new puppet and Ontario’s largest teachers union couldn’t be working harder to get her elected.
> 
> According to information provided to the Toronto Sun, all Elementary Teachers Federation of Ontario (ETFO) members were invited to a virtual rally last Wednesday on their lunch or nutrition break.
> 
> ...


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

FeXL said:


> Curious, that. It's never the flaws in the freshly proposed system. It's always the ignorant unwashed plebs...


Subsequent interviews with the kook squad who designed the "new voting system" revealed their anger. Member wanted to personally "make history" and could only do so if they proposed something radically different from what already existed.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> Electoral reform tends to get pushed when the party in power thinks it will benefit from it. In Ontario, we had a crazy citizen's group appointed by the provincial government sending letters to everyone in the province prior to the referendum describing "your new voting system" as though it was a sure thing. Ontario rejected it wholesale and the results were blamed on Ontarians who weren't smart enough to see the advantages of the proposal.


The trouble with electoral reform is the voters. I have adjudicated many elections and you would be surprised at how difficult it is to get a simple X in a circle by someone’s name.

I would like to see a system such as this. In Ontario we now have 124 seats. What I propose is a mixed system. You assign an absolute majority rate of say 70%... I realise this is an arbitrary number but it is for demonstration purposes. I like 70% because the if achieved it would be an undisputed win so to speak....70% 124 is 87 seats..or what I call legislative votes.

You subtract the seats won by FPT post from the winning party. Say the PCs win 63 seats, that leaves 24 seats from the LV. Take the actual per party vote per cent age and apply that per cent to the remaining 24, these “seats” are added to each party’s total. Thus the more the winning party gets as a majority the fewer seats from the LV are assigned to it. Take the ranking out of the hands of the voters and place the results of their votes .


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

So essentially Toronto would have more power to swing elections to the left?


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> So essentially Toronto would have more power to swing elections to the left?


Maybe? The allocation would be based on the entire voting universe for Ontario. So Toronto riding May pickup some LVs, but they could be from any party not just the left.

You might find a Green assigned. The fact remains that many think the current system doesn’t represent the actual voting populous. Thus the movement to PR. If you can get elected with more votes against you....but you have more seats ( if we had a two party system we would have no need for PR ) . What I see coming on Thursday is one party will get the popular vote but another will win seats.....just ask Ms. Clinton.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Rps said:


> What I see coming on Thursday is one party will get the popular vote but another will win seats.....just ask Ms. Clinton.


I'm fine with that. It's not a problem for me.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Macfury said:


> I'm fine with that. It's not a problem for me.


:lmao:


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Calls mount for probe of Wynne government casino contracts that ‘smelled of backroom deals’



> As Ontario’s election approaches there are increasing calls for investigations into lucrative Greater Toronto Area casino contracts awarded by Ontario’s lottery corporation last year to a British Columbia-based company.
> 
> In the fall of 2017, Ontario’s Progressive Conservative party urged the provincial government to freeze the deals, after it was revealed Great Canadian Gaming was at the centre of casino money-laundering probes.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Far too much praise here for someone who deserves nothing but harsh criticism.  That said, the author makes a good point.

Wynne’s concession isn’t brave, it’s a clumsy cop-out



> Wynne’s announcement was not selfless, as those looking to write a favourable narrative of the call would have you believe—it was shameful. Wynne is the captain of the Liberal team. For her to all of a sudden say to her teammates and fans in the third period of their most important game that she is done is a betrayal of her side. It could have lasting repercussions for the Liberal Party of Ontario. *Rather than save some local seats because people buy some Star Chamber-like strategic-voting scenario she and her team are advancing, she may compound Liberal losses.*


M'bold.

One hopes...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Kathleen Wynne once promised to lower car insurance rates. Guess what happened next



> In 2013, Kathleen Wynne’s Liberals promised to deliver Ontarians a 15-per-cent reduction in car insurance premiums. Wynne later said that it was a “stretch goal” — and instead of the promised reduction, we have had about a 2.5-per-cent premium increase. The Insurance Bureau says auto premiums in Ontario are now 45-per-cent higher than Alberta’s and about twice as high as those in the Maritimes.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Wynne Confident Liberals Can Win Southwestern Ontario Seats



> Kathleen Wynne has already admitted she won’t be premier after Thursday’s vote, but she remains confident that the Liberals will win several ridings in southwestern Ontario.
> 
> The Liberal leader was joined by four local candidates while on a stop at health food eatery Margo and Tuffy in London Tuesday afternoon. Wynne told her supporters, who packed the tiny Adelaide St. restaurant, that the Liberals have “great” candidates in southwestern Ontario.
> 
> *“I know that we are going to see a good result in this region,” said Wynne. “I don’t know where it is going to be, I don’t know exactly what the numbers are going to be but you’ve got good, strong people running in this region. I hope everyone will look very carefully at them before they go to the polling station.”*


M'bold.

XX)


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Facing defeat, Wynne reflects on her record, strategic voting



> Making London one of her last campaign stops before Thursday’s election, Premier Kathleen Wynne told The Free Press she would have considered handing off to a new Liberal leader a year ago, if she believed then she would lose the election she now admits her party won’t win.


I jes' luvs me an ego in denial...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Horwath's sanctuary province would cost at least $2.5B annually



> Andrea Horwath’s promise of making Ontario a “sanctuary province” would carry “a minimum cost of $2.5-billion annually.”
> 
> And that’s just for the added health-care costs.


Tha's jes' fine. Juthdin will write out a cheque, chock full o' free money.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

In Wynne's own riding, people are scoffing at her cowardice in conceding the election. They see it as throwing all of her candidates under the bus--which it is!


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Macfury said:


> In Wynne's own riding, people are scoffing at her cowardice in conceding the election. They see it as throwing all of her candidates under the bus--which it is!


Good.

What do you need for official party status? Eight seats? It'd be saweet to see them not make it.


----------



## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

Macfury said:


> In Wynne's own riding, people are scoffing at her cowardice in conceding the election. They see it as throwing all of her candidates under the bus--which it is!


I agree. 

But I think the idea was good just done too late with a poor explanation.

If she had done it earlier candidates would have had a hope of running, distanced from the unpopular leader. But now, ya too little too late. And really sinks the whole party.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

smashedbanana said:


> I agree.
> 
> But I think the idea was good just done too late with a poor explanation.
> 
> If she had done it earlier candidates would have had a hope of running, distanced from the unpopular leader. But now, ya too little too late. And really sinks the whole party.


To a certain degree, I agree with you. It would have been a ploy I would have suggested, but you are right it is too late to do any good. She should have done it when her candidates started refusing having her stump for them.

As for the idea that she will surprise people with the South Western Ontario vote, this is true....we would be surprised if any of her candidates come in higher than 3rd. Although Windsor-West has a popular city councilman running and that might be interesting, but I think Gretzky has that riding sewn up.

Wynne’s announcement has left some blood in the water....Liberal party members ( after this election all 10 of them ) are circling around for a party leadership bid.....that may have been an u expected consequence or planned. In Ontario the Libs and the PCs eat their young after an election loss.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

For you ehMacers from Ontario.....see anything you like?

As at: May 17, 2018 (in alphabetical order) as registered by Elections Ontario.

Canadian Economic Party

Canadians’ Choice Party (CCP)

Communist Party of Canada (Ontario) - (Communist)

Consensus Ontario

Cultural Action Party of Ontario (CAP)

Freedom Party of Ontario

Go Vegan

Green Party of Ontario

Multicultural Party of Ontario

New Democratic Party of Ontario (Ontario NDP/NPD)

None of the Above Direct Democracy Party

Northern Ontario Party (N O P)

Ontario Alliance (Alliance)

Ontario Liberal Party

Ontario Libertarian Party (Libertarian)

Ontario Moderate Party

Ontario Party

Ontario Provincial Confederation of Regions Party

Ontario Social Reform Party

Party for People with Special Needs

Party of Objective Truth (P.O.T.)

Pauper Party of Ontario (Paupers)

Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario (PC Party of Ontario)

Stop Climate Change

Stop the New Sex-Ed Agenda

The New People’s Choice Party of Ontario

The Peoples Political Party (The People)

Trillium Party of Ontario (Trillium Party TPO)

Total number of Registered Political Parties in Ontario = 28


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Nothing.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> Nothing.


What, not even the Libertarians?


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Rps said:


> What, not even the Libertarians?


I've met them--hopeless cases and inadequate to deliver a solid message.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I see FuXL has tucked his head up his butt since new polls show Ford's lead is widening. Come on back for the election party y'hear!


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> I see FuXL has tucked his head up his butt since new polls show Ford's lead is widening. Come on back for the election party y'hear!


Well, while my data set a PC win I’m concerned about the 17 new riding and the 6 Ministers resigning.....that’s 23 seats. I have found there is a form of F.U.-ism when polling and many won’t give an accurate answer. My concern is Toronto 416....if the North goes NDP on the 2 new seats and Ottawa and Toronto go NDP, look out! But I’m still seeing a PC win. Oh well, I’ve put my toys away and will just wait like everyone else......


----------



## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

Rps said:


> For you ehMacers from Ontario.....see anything you like?
> 
> As at: May 17, 2018 (in alphabetical order) as registered by Elections Ontario.
> 
> ...



Where is General Zod?


----------



## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Rps said:


> Well, while my data set a PC win I’m concerned about the 17 new riding and the 6 Ministers resigning.....that’s 23 seats. I have found there is a form of F.U.-ism when polling and many won’t give an accurate answer. My concern is Toronto 416....if the North goes NDP on the 2 new seats and Ottawa and Toronto go NDP, look out! But I’m still seeing a PC win. Oh well, I’ve put my toys away and will just wait like everyone else......


From what I've seen, an NDP win would require the Liberals to collapse to ~10% in the GTA+ region. I haven't seen a poll supporting that. Oddly enough, Liberal numbers barely changed after the leader effectively conceded defeat.

I think it's a PC majority, but note your F-Uism outlier possibility. 1 in 20, as the pollsters say.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

smashedbanana said:


> where is general zod?


lol!


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Rps said:


> What, not even the Libertarians?


Seriously, Rps, having one member in the Ontario Parliament who might speak on my behalf is not worth the aggravation of such an alternate voting system. And then to find that person squaring off against Paupers and Vegans for attention...


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Hey FuXL--the big day is here and all of the latest polls show Doug Ford has a solid lead! Why not vote PC yourself and get with the revolution, instead of backing the failed socialist models that make you feel gloomy?


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

MacFury, is FuXL an Ontarian........or a contrarian?


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Well, folks, here's hoping you get the gov't you need, not the one the province deserves.

Fingers crossed.

That said, a few more links:

Surviving the nastiest, strangest election ever



> The lowest point of the most noxious, strangest and dramatic Ontario election in generations came on a warm Monday night in mid-May in Niagara Falls.
> 
> During a packed rally for Doug Ford, a supporter yelled out “Lock Her Up” as the Conservative leader fired up the crowd by accusing Premier Kathleen Wynne of screwing up the energy file.
> 
> Instead of telling the loudmouth to cool it, Ford laughed. Emboldened by Ford’s response, the angry supporter chanted “Lock Her Up” again, and Ford continued to smile.


VICTIM!!! POOR KATHLEEN!!!

Let’s Play “Name That Party”

Why do Canada’s women premiers seem to only get one term in office?



> What do Catherine Callbeck, Alison Redford, Pauline Marois, Kathy Dunderdale and Christy Clark have in common: they are all women who broke the political glass ceiling to become their province’s first elected female premier only to have voters sour on them over just one term in office. By her own admission, Ontario’s Kathleen Wynne expects to join the club as a result of Thursday’s provincial vote.


And, although she's not Albertistan's first, in less than a year you can add Red Rachel to the list of single-termers. :clap:


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

He lives in eastern Ontario. And he's a contrarian--contrary to good sense!



Rps said:


> MacFury, is FuXL an Ontarian........or a contrarian?


----------



## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

Can't wait to get to the booth tonight.

Voting NDP. No damn party!

Or maybe General Zod. I don't like his enslavement policy, but his tough on superman initiative is okay.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

smashedbanana said:


> Or maybe General Zod. I don't like his enslavement policy, but his tough on superman initiative is okay.


Zod has a bad track record with creating imperfect duplicates that voters may not soon forget.


----------



## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

Macfury said:


> Zod has a bad track record with creating imperfect duplicates that voters may not soon forget.


Don't start looking for leaders running on their track record now


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

A good summary of some of the EnDeePee fruit loops & whackos.

Ontario election tests Canadians’ tolerance of the far-left



> New Democrats candidate Dwayne Morgan suggested on more than one occasion that 9/11 was an inside job. Another candidate, Laura Kaminker, confidently declared there was “no proof that bin Laden or Al-Qaida had anything to do with the attacks.” Kaminker, who identifies as a “Marxist,” has caused equal scandal for referring to the wearing of poppies on Remembrance Day as an “annual ritual of war glorification” that she has no time for. Her disgust is shared by candidate Jan Johnstone, who says the Royal Canadian Legion “glorifies ALL wars” and has suggested Canadians “bleach” their red poppies into the white ones favored by a faction of far-left Remembrance Day dissidents.
> 
> Johnstone’s words are considerably milder, however, than those of candidate Tasleem Riaz, who claimed on Facebook that Ottawa’s 2011 decision to retain Canadian troops in Afghanistan until 2014 was a mandate to “keep slaughtering … innocent men, women and children for another 1095 days.” Candidate Erica Kelly is comfortable with wartime slaughter — as long as it’s of “extremist Americans.” According to a Facebook chat transcript, she once mused it “would not be sad to see these gun nuts threatening civil war have their asses blown to f— with a drone.” A similarly broad vocabulary was employed by candidate Gurratan Singh, brother of federal New Democrats leader Jagmeet Singh, who summarized his views on the state of provincial law enforcement by holding a sign at a 2006 rally declaring “F– the Police!”
> 
> ...


Yet, no criticism from our resident arsehole, FuXL, on these extremist idiots. Hey, FuXY, any of these weirdos _your_ candidate? Mayhaps they're just a bit too conservative for your taste?


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Been watching the updates on Global. Five minutes ago they declared a PC majority. Congratulations!

Woohoo!!!

Hey, FuXL, you arsehole: FU!!!. Where are you now? Why don't you crawl back under that rock from whence you came & cry for the next 4 years...


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

So now comes the discussion...we know that Wynne should have resigned about a year ago, but the question now is should Andrea say goodbye. Many NDP are cheering that now they have a true voice, but they actually thought they were going to win....so Andrea is what a 3 time loser. Just wondering if she should fall on the sword.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

FeXL said:


> Hey, FuXL, you arsehole: FU!!!. Where are you now? Why don't you crawl back under that rock from whence you came & cry for the next 4 years...


[sarcasm]What a lovely fellow you are![/sarcasm]

tptptptp


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Rps said:


> So now comes the discussion...we know that Wynne should have resigned about a year ago, but the question now is should Andrea say goodbye. Many NDP are cheering that now they have a true voice, but they actually thought they were going to win....so Andrea is what a 3 time loser. Just wondering if she should fall on the sword.


Andrea's incremental voters are largely Liberal who couldn't stomach a vote for Wynne. I don't think she did anything wrong--or right. I wouldn't fire her yet, but I also wouldn't let her helm another election.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

He's imitating FuXL. But you never complained when FuXL said exactly those things.



CubaMark said:


> [sarcasm]What a lovely fellow you are![/sarcasm]
> 
> tptptptp


----------



## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

Macfury said:


> He's imitating FuXL. But you never complained when FuXL said exactly those things.


I too am getting wary of Fexl's reprehensible posts. 

I'm not looking back in any history for a tit for tat. 

**** poor behaviour is just **** poor behaviour.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Then swat it when you see it, not just when you see FeXL doing it.



smashedbanana said:


> I too am getting wary of Fexl's reprehensible posts.
> 
> I'm not looking back in any history for a tit for tat.
> 
> **** poor behaviour is just **** poor behaviour.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

General Zod lost his seat.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

There were clearly a lot of shy Ford voters who pretended they were going to vote NDP when polled. All of the so-called NDP groundswell collapsed on election day.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

And just a reminder that Notley is next, then the hairdo.


----------



## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

The polling average worked out this election +/- 2%. I'm not sure why the Liberals held their ~20% floor, but that should worry the NDP. No idea how Ford will turn out as premier.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

The Toronto Star headline:


> ‘A government for the people’ — but will Doug Ford govern for all Ontarians?


I love this. The newspaper never asked this question when the Liberals in general and Kathleen Wynne in particular ignored, isolated and dumped on a large segment of the electorate without even a tip of the hat to the idea that their "progressive" vision wasn't universal. It seems a hallmark of these lefty rags that they demand any victorious non-prog party squander its electoral success by governing as though they lost the election.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Coming from the guy who fell for Clock Girl hook, line & sinker, I'll take that as a compliment...



CubaMark said:


> [sarcasm]What a lovely fellow you are![/sarcasm]


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Macfury said:


> Then swat it when you see it, not just when you see FeXL doing it.


Precisely. Thank you, MF. :clap:

The double standards exhibited on this board are reprehensible. And typical...


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Beej said:


> The polling average worked out this election +/- 2%. I'm not sure why the Liberals held their ~20% floor, but that should worry the NDP. No idea how Ford will turn out as premier.


I had the Libs with 6 seats....remember that there are those who vote for the person and not the leader of the party....there ARE some good Liberal members out there who probably deserved to be returned. We had 17 new ridings this time and many resigning members for the Libs...that can change the dynamic.

I think the NDP are in trouble, frankly. They can chirp all they want about finally having a voice, but with a majority government the size the PCs have they will have a bad case of laryngitis... they were expecting a breakthrough win and didn’t get. This really gives the Liberals time to reload.


----------



## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

FeXL said:


> Precisely. Thank you, MF. :clap:
> 
> The double standards exhibited on this board are reprehensible. And typical...


Double-standards?

I've only seen your tirade posts for the last couple of months with expletives. Usually directed at Cubamark. Usually xxx and the horse your road on type things.

Maybe in the past many years others have posted similar. Honestly I don't care.

You are an adult. Just take care of what you do and say.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Yes. Double standards.

I'm not going to do your homework for you. Hit the search feature on these boards & go read FUXL's posts.

That's why I responded the way I did. He's made his bed, now he can cry in it.

As far as my responses to CM, yes, there is _long_ history there. He's the biggest hypocrite on these boards, even admits to being so when dealing with me. He gets as much quarter as he gives: zero.

As a matter of fact (and well known here), I give back precisely what I get to anybody on these boards. Don't like my responses? Have a look at who/what I'm responding to.

I could care less what anybody on these boards call me: I've been called far worse by much better. However, when the rubber hits the road, don't expect me to forgive & forget. FeXL's, like elephants, have a very long memory.



smashedbanana said:


> Double-standards?


Well, you should care. No way in hell I'm treating with respect anyone who has given me far less. If I'd been dumping on you for years, I certainly wouldn't expect you to be civil back.



smashedbanana said:


> Maybe in the past many years others have posted similar. Honestly I don't care.


You could have left the condescension at home...



smashedbanana said:


> You are an adult. Just take care of what you do and say.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Speaks for itself.......


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

FeXL said:


> Coming from the guy who fell for Clock Girl hook, line & sinker, I'll take that as a compliment...


Right, Mr. Depressed GermanWings pilot is a secret jihadist muslim.... So far as we know, you still believe that....


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Anytime you want to start adding them up, I'm in.

After Clock Girl, we'll hit the Alternative Energy thread, then the Electric Car thread, then the Gun Control thread. Those four will take you into triple digits.

While we're on the topic of Clock Girl & unfinished business, found any news reports of Canadians ATTACKing Muslims yet? No? Thought not. 

On that topic, have you been following the Ramadan Bombathon updates? Lots of Muslims attacking everybody else. Too, I've been bookmarking quite a few links on Muslims raping, killing, blowing stuff up for the last few months. Gotta be over 500 links in that folder by now. One of these days I'm going to get a link dump going. We can post 1:1. For every Islamic atrocity on non-Muslims link of mine, you can post a link to non-Muslims attacking Muslims.

BTW, how's that project on safe, gun free protection of schools coming along? Made any headway yet? No? Thought not.

I'd start work on those two projects pretty quick, if they don't see some effort soon folks hereabout are likely to start calling you FOS.

Jes' sayin'...



CubaMark said:


> Right...


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Yep . . .


----------



## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Rps said:


> Speaks for itself.......
> 
> 
> View attachment 86769


That last line is great.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

(Halifax Chronicle-Herald)


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

That shirt has got the NDP colours just right.


----------



## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

FeXL said:


> ..


Look you are attacking a member. Good member or not doesn't matter.

Any other forum you'd be banned. Ehmax still in charge, at least a warning.

Going around the language bot is not some sort of level of acceptance of your behavior.

I'm not searching for other comments by the person in question. Not my job. Even if I did, as I said I don't care. I don't care if my kids told me who started a fight and I don't care if they tell me their teacher hates them.

If I see that kind of expletive laced post by anyone I am going to have issue.

Check your privilege. 

This is not your personal exclusive domain.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Let's see if you're as sharp-eyed the next time the original perps work their magic.



smashedbanana said:


> Look you are attacking a member. Good member or not doesn't matter.
> 
> Any other forum you'd be banned. Ehmax still in charge, at least a warning.
> 
> ...


----------



## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

Macfury said:


> Let's see if you're as sharp-eyed the next time the original perps work their magic.


I will be, but I'm not reading every post all the time.

How about you stand up to this too? It's up to us to police this place now. We all suffer if we allow membership to attack each other rather than just have discussions.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I read almost every post and can see the context of this.

I have spoken out in the past. The perps hurled even more abuse, then assumed new identities after they were banned. At one point, a mod was brought in who explained that he was there to make sure that anyone right of centre would be kept in line. I would be banned for weeks at a time for making a joke, or expressing my opinion "too strongly" while left-of-centre perps continued to cuss and attack with impunity. I was banned because I "caused other people to swear" at me even though I remained polite.

Given that sort of repressive history, I'm happier to see everyone free to express what's on their mind. I don't expect FeXL to take the kind of abuse he's been getting quietly, even though my own posting style is much more polite.



smashedbanana said:


> I will be, but I'm not reading every post all the time.
> 
> How about you stand up to this too? It's up to us to police this place now. We all suffer if we allow membership to attack each other rather than just have discussions.


----------



## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

smashedbanana said:


> I'm not searching for other comments by the person in question. Not my job. Even if I did, as I said I don't care. I don't care if my kids told me who started a fight and I don't care if they tell me their teacher hates them.


I prefer more politeness, but context matters. Ignoring context, using your analogy, would lead to punishing someone for self defense.

You later point out that it's up to us to police this place. What do you think that looks like? I don't think it looks like people sporadically standing up and then claiming it's not their job to examine the cause. It is definitely not their job to simply judge the endpoint.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

I'm giving back to a member precisely what they've been giving me.



smashedbanana said:


> Look you are attacking a member.


Yes, it does.



smashedbanana said:


> Good member or not doesn't matter.


If true, then when he posted his attacks first he'd have gotten the shoe & I wouldn't need to respond.

Win/win.



smashedbanana said:


> Any other forum you'd be banned.


I'm so old I remember being subject to ehMax's interpretation of "fair & just". Let's just say that my experiences were very similar to MF's.



smashedbanana said:


> Ehmax still in charge, at least a warning.


Nor should it be for anyone else. Yet your criticism for the _cause_ of the problem, rather than the _effect_, is curiously absent.



smashedbanana said:


> Going around the language bot is not some sort of level of acceptance of your behavior.


Then we have noting further to discuss.



smashedbanana said:


> I'm not searching for other comments by the person in question.


If you aren't willing to get both sides of the story to find cause & effect, that's your issue, not mine.



smashedbanana said:


> Not my job. Even if I did, as I said I don't care.


Well, I do care. For the third time, cause & effect.

One of mine comes home with a bloody nose because they were defending a younger sibling, I'm sure as hell not going to punish them...

And, sometimes the teacher/coach/administrator _is_ the issue...



smashedbanana said:


> I don't care if my kids told me who started a fight and I don't care if they tell me their teacher hates them.


Then put me on ignore, 'cause I give what I get.



smashedbanana said:


> If I see that kind of expletive laced post by anyone I am going to have issue.


Check my _what_?



smashedbanana said:


> Check your privilege.


Never claimed it was. Nor is it yours.



smashedbanana said:


> This is not your personal exclusive domain.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

smashedbanana said:


> It's up to us to police this place now.


If you're gong to be a cop, then you'd better be willing to look at _both_ sides of the story.

MF, Beej, thanks for your posts.


----------



## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Sorry but stealing does carry the risk of being shot and perhaps killed by the property owner.

There is no valid reason to try to stack a jury for a conviction because the cadaver was an Indian prior to his demise.

Chief of Six Nations calls for Indigenous jury members as trial with echoes of Colten Boushie case begins | CBC News



> The jury selection expert described the cases as "remarkably similar" and said the first question that will be answered Monday is whether or not there's a fair cross-section of diverse candidates on the panel of prospective jurors.
> 
> 
> "Of course we know that in Ontario and indeed in all of Canada we have problems with underrepresentation of Indigenous people on that panel," he explained.


It takes an idiot to believe that ethnicity should qualify or disqualify someone for jury duty. 

Now stealing may indeed a part of Indian cultural heritage, at least with some Indian tribes. Stealing a horse from an enemy village was often a coming of age ritual for young bucks, and yes the penalty could be death if he was caught. That said maybe it is time for Canada's native population to relegate that practice and its offshoots to the history books. 

Or maybe the real issue here is addiction and stealing to feed it. Either way Styres bears the lions share of responsibility for his own death.

Select jurors based on their ability to consider the evidence objectively and then render a fair verdict.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

That previous post about Colten Boushie sure does not belong in this thread. Just saying.

Meanwhile, here are a couple of Ontario zingers to brighten your day.


----------



## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

SINC said:


> That previous post about Colten Boushie sure does not belong in this thread. Just saying.
> 
> Meanwhile, here are a couple of Ontario zingers to brighten your day.


The post was actually about an Ontario incident similar to Colten Boushie, with the same idiotic political BS in play, so it would seem to belong in the Ontario Political thread. Judgement call on my part.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Thought it was fine here.



eMacMan said:


> The post was actually about an Ontario incident similar to Colten Boushie, with the same idiotic political BS in play, so it would seem to belong in the Ontario Political thread. Judgement call on my part.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Macfury said:


> Thought it was fine here.


Me too now that I get it. I didn't at first. Sorry Bob.


----------



## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Don, the headline was obviously intended to promote a biased viewpoint, rather than convey pertinent details, and my quote did not include location. So the source of confusion was obvious.

It bothers me that with natives making up only a small fraction of the population, but a very significant portion of the criminal cases, that there seems to be a push to stack juries with native individuals. What that in essence means is if you are a treaty Indian who is not a criminal you should take up permanent residence at the local courthouse. At least if the CBC has its way.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

I hope he tells her to get stuffed.

Wynne hopes Ford changes rules to give Liberals official party status



> Ontario’s outgoing Liberals made a pitch to hold on to official party status Friday as they entered a period of extreme uncertainty in the wake of an election that took them from a majority government to a mere seven seats.
> 
> Kathleen Wynne, who stepped down as Liberal leader after the party’s dramatic downfall, said she hopes premier-designate Doug Ford will change the rules to grant the designation, which currently requires eight seats in the legislature.


Suck it up, princess. Time to put on your big girl panties & resign completely.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)




----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

CubaMark said:


>


I have complete faith that parents can teach their children about sex. Now if you want government mandated philosophies taught to children about how the government wants people to think then I have issue with that, seems a bit Orwellian.

Cheap beer? Sure would be nice. Not a huge beer drinker but I do enjoy it and would certainly want to pay less. Especially when you see how little our neighbours to the south pay for their alcohol. Feels like we are getting taken at gun point.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*(Language warning)*

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8aPABF7nW4[/ame]


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Agreed. Through government filters, everything seems insane.



wonderings said:


> I have complete faith that parents can teach their children about sex. Now if you want government mandated philosophies taught to children about how the government wants people to think then I have issue with that, seems a bit Orwellian.
> 
> Cheap beer? Sure would be nice. Not a huge beer drinker but I do enjoy it and would certainly want to pay less. Especially when you see how little our neighbours to the south pay for their alcohol. Feels like we are getting taken at gun point.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

wonderings said:


> I have complete faith that parents can teach their children about sex. Now if you want government mandated philosophies taught to children about how the government wants people to think then I have issue with that, seems a bit Orwellian.
> 
> Cheap beer? Sure would be nice. Not a huge beer drinker but I do enjoy it and would certainly want to pay less. Especially when you see how little our neighbours to the south pay for their alcohol. Feels like we are getting taken at gun point.


Love it! The way it should be for sure! :clap::clap:


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

I would *love* to see what you folks think is proper child sex education delivered in the home. I'm sure it's... just lovely.

:lmao:


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Sadly, no matter how much you'd love it, it's probably too late for you to benefit from proper sex education delivered in my home. 



CubaMark said:


> I would *love* to see what you folks think is proper child sex education delivered in the home. I'm sure it's... just lovely.
> 
> :lmao:


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

CubaMark said:


> I would *love* to see what you folks think is proper child sex education delivered in the home. I'm sure it's... just lovely.
> 
> :lmao:


What progs don't realize:

The Overkill Backfire Effect: On The Danger Of Having Too Much Evidence | St. Albert's Place


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

CubaMark said:


> I would *love* to see what you folks think is proper child sex education delivered in the home. I'm sure it's... just lovely.
> 
> :lmao:


Why don't you start by telling us what you think it is and why parents are incapable of teaching children the basics of procreation?


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

wonderings said:


> Why don't you start by telling us what you think it is and why parents are incapable of teaching children the basics of procreation?


Perhaps CM feels that _he_ is incapable, so everyone else must be...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

For millennia children have received sex ed from their parents, managing this all without gov't mandated interference just fine.



CubaMark said:


> I would *love* to see what you folks think is proper child sex education delivered in the home. I'm sure it's... just lovely.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Best graph from this story:



> Despite a fairly favourable economic situation in Kathleen Wynne’s favour, it was her party’s epic mismanagement of the electricity file in particular that dominated her opponents’ platforms and captured voters’ minds. Meanwhile her cap-and-trade system of carbon dioxide taxes was slowly making most other forms of energy needlessly more expensive as well. In a mid-campaign poll by Ipsos, over 60 per cent of Ontario voters said hydro prices would have an impact on their vote in the provincial election, with the PCs as the top choice for fixing the problem. *Every other government in Canada should take note of Wynne’s fate.*


Notley and Trudeau are next.

Ignore the green lobby, Doug Ford. Ontarians voted for affordable energy this time | National Post


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

A "fairly favourable" economy is meaningless if citizens can't afford to pay their bills due to government mandated costs.



SINC said:


> Best graph from this story:
> 
> Notley and Trudeau are next.
> 
> Ignore the green lobby, Doug Ford. Ontarians voted for affordable energy this time | National Post


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

SINC said:


> Notley and Trudeau are next.



Re: Red Rachel, I agree. Albertans have come to their senses.

Re: The Eyebrow? I'm not convinced enough Canadians have come to their senses. And, if they have, who are they going to vote for? Scheer? Riiiiight...


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Ford’s First Cuts: $1 Billion From Roads, Transit, Infrastructure*

Doug Ford hasn’t assumed office yet, but as Premier-Designate of Ontario he has already indicated he plans to move ahead with big cuts to infrastructure, including roads and transit.

Ford indicated at a press conference earlier this week that one of his top priorities will be changes to the gas tax that will cost Ontario approximately $1 billion in revenue each year.

Last year, Ontario’s gas tax generated $2.7 billion for the province. The bulk of this revenue is allocated to transit and spending on infrastructure, like roads and bridges.

Ford’s plan calls for a reduction in the gas tax from 14.7¢ per litre to 9.7¢ per litre, a 34% reduction. Accordingly, a 34% reduction in gas tax revenues represents approximately $918 million per year in lost funding for transit and infrastructure. To put the figure in perspective, that is nearly equal to the entire annual operating budget of Metrolinx, the agency which runs GO Transit, PRESTO, and various rapid transit services across the province.

Doug Ford’s campaign promises come with real consequences in the form of big cuts, and as the Premier-Designate moves ahead with his first big round of cuts it’s likely that drivers, transit riders, and commuters will suffer from worse service and infrastructure.

(North99)​


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

CubaMark, you want to cut gas prices, cut down on green house gases, and finance transit infrastructure.......the easiest and best way is road tolls. 
Let the users pay. I see like reason why we in Windsor should pay for Toronto’s transit system which we don’t use. We have a city owned highway here ( why we own it god only knows, it is more of a county road) it’s upkeep is in the millions and is always under repair. I’d make it a toll road, then the users would pay for it. It connects Tecumseh, Windsor, and LaSalle....but Windsor taxes pay for it. Toronto should do the same. Our system in Ontario actually hides the true cost of roads and highways.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Beautiful--that's why I voted for him. Turn them all into toll roads.

Tax cuts are not "costs to Ontario"--they are the return of income taken from Ontarians.




CubaMark said:


> *Ford’s First Cuts: $1 Billion From Roads, Transit, Infrastructure*
> 
> Doug Ford hasn’t assumed office yet, but as Premier-Designate of Ontario he has already indicated he plans to move ahead with big cuts to infrastructure, including roads and transit.
> 
> ...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Yeah, well, the Progs seldom see truth as an obstacle in the midst of a good, old-fashioned, SJW rant aimed at re-election...

Ontario's minimum wage hikes fail to help poor



> In reality, 446,000 Ontario workers –- not millions -– actually earned minimum wage when Wynne announced her $15-an-hour policy in 2017.
> 
> In reality, fewer than one in 10 of those minimum wage workers (9.2%) lived in low-income families at that time, Fraser finds in Increasing the Minimum Wage in Ontario, A Flawed Anti-Poverty Policy.
> 
> ...


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Yep, and Notley wants Alberta to follow Ontario's lead. She is an idiot.

*$312 Billion: Green Energy Makes Ontario the Most Debt-Ridden Province on Earth*

https://pjmedia.com/trending/312-bi...tario-the-most-debt-ridden-province-on-earth/


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

SINC said:


> Yep, and Notley wants Alberta to follow Ontario's lead. She is an idiot.
> 
> *$312 Billion: Green Energy Makes Ontario the Most Debt-Ridden Province on Earth*
> 
> https://pjmedia.com/trending/312-bi...tario-the-most-debt-ridden-province-on-earth/


It's only money! We can just print more if we need it right? Or maybe we can charge one to visa and then pay of the visa with a master card and just go back and forth.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Must be OK. He's offending all the right people...

Doug Ford makes a good start in Ontario

Lessee:



> It started last Friday with his announcement that he would pull Ontario out of Kathleen Wynne’s cap and trade system with California and Quebec.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


More:



> If this is what Ford can accomplish before even taking office then Ontario is in good hands.


Yeppers...


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

FeXL said:


> Must be OK. He's offending all the right people...
> 
> Doug Ford makes a good start in Ontario
> 
> ...


I would be curious to know how much of our tax dollars went into public employees meals last year. Certainly seems like the right attitude to take. Our tax dollars should be treated with respect as we work hard for those dollars that the government in the past has so easily pissed away with seemingly no conscious about it.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

wonderings said:


> I would be curious to know how much of our tax dollars went into public employees meals last year.


Ya know, I'm not sure I even want to find out. 

All it's going to do is make one even more angry about profligate gov't spending (if that's even possible). It's the whole, "Well it's not _my_ money" attitude that seems to infect gov'ts at all levels.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Good.

Ford government is ending co-operation with Ottawa on resettlement of asylum-seekers



> Blaming Prime Minister Justin Trudeau for creating “a mess,” Premier Doug Ford’s new Progressive Conservative government has withdrawn Ontario’s co-operation with Ottawa over asylum-seekers.


More:



> “It didn’t seem to me that the premier was quite as aware of our international obligations to the UN Convention on Refugees as he might have been,” the prime minister told reporters Thursday, after the leaders’ first official meeting.
> 
> *“So I spent a little time explaining how the asylum-seeking system works and how our system is supposed to operate,” said Trudeau.*


M'bold.

Oh, good! Trudeau-'splainin'.

I'd like to 'splain a few things to Juthdin myself, mano a hairdo...


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

FeXL said:


> Good.
> 
> Ford government is ending co-operation with Ottawa on resettlement of asylum-seekers
> 
> ...


FeXL, you know my position on immigration and refugees .... for those reading that don’t I am for them .. they built this country in the past and will do so in the future.

That said, you don’t tweet ( ironic that you could say that is a “me-too” moment ) everyone come on board and we’ll pay for everything and not expect an avalanche of migrants and refugees. And Im sorry but you aren’t either if you come across from the U.S.. What you are is illegal not irregular. Provinces and member cities have to house, feed, care, and educate. Last time I looked this cost money..... it also places Canadian citizens at a disadvantage as services for the new comers take precedent. I agree with Ford, Trudeau you caused this problem so pony up as well as shut up!


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Lots of speculation but an interesting read. Longish.

What the new Doug Ford Government means for the Energy Sector – A detailed analysis


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

bump


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

bump again


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Good for him.

Doug Ford fires Ontario’s chief science officer, chief investment officer, premier’s business adviser

https://globalnews.ca/news/4313861/ontario-pcs-fire-chief-science-officer/


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Shocka...

Ontario’s Minimum Wage Hike Has Been Disastrous, Especially for Disabled Workers



> The Canadian province of Ontario began 2018 by raising the minimum wage from $11.60 to $14. The move was predictably praised by union leaders and most of the general public as a compassionate policy that would help workers. Equally predictable was the damage this would do to unskilled workers, much of which is already clearly visible, only half a year into this unfortunate experiment. And given that the damage caused by minimum wages takes time to unfold, more carnage is surely on the horizon.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Doug Ford Is Dead Right, Injection Sites Dead Wrong.

Yep.

https://canadafreepress.com/article...ection-sites-dead-wrong#.W0Ys9mUh_3U.facebook


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I say legalize the stuff--and no safe-injection sites.



SINC said:


> Doug Ford Is Dead Right, Injection Sites Dead Wrong.
> 
> Yep.
> 
> https://canadafreepress.com/article...ection-sites-dead-wrong#.W0Ys9mUh_3U.facebook


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Macfury said:


> I say legalize the stuff--and no safe-injection sites.


Yep, and begin teaching children in Kindergarten, "If you use illegal drugs, you're gonna die."


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

SINC said:


> Yep, and begin teaching children in Kindergarten, "If you use illegal drugs, you're gonna die."


Next thing we'll need safe boozing sites.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Related:*_

Doug Ford just replaced the modern sex-ed curriculum with a 1998 version
YouTube: Fuzzy Bunny's Guide to You-Know-What
_


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Of course you know that the move is only temporary, but you cry the blues anyway.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Macfury said:


> Of course you know that the move is only temporary, but you cry the blues anyway.


Regarding the 2015 Sex Ed plan (from my previous link):

...nearly 50,000 had already signed an online petition asking the Premier to reconsider his stance before today's announcement.

"The curriculum was designed and written by experts in child development, internet safety, police, and social workers, in consultation with roughly 4,000 parents," reads the petition.

"Youth deserve scientific facts and unbiased information when it comes to their health," it continues. "It's simple: society will suffer if we don't educate children in these topics."​
One wonders exactly who will craft the new policy, and how far-reaching will be Lisa Thompson's "consultations". Should be interesting to compare the two approaches...

The petition referred above is now beyond 60-thousand signatures.

If you go to the Campaign for Life Coalition website - the evangelical right-wingers who threw their support heavily to Ford - you'll find the usual exaggerated untruths about all things non-missionary. They claim that:

_Anal intercourse is still being presented in a way that students will interpret as carrying no higher risk for STIs than vaginal intercourse, an irresponsible and misleading presentation of the former which carries a 3000% higher risk for contracting HIV._​
They don't mention where that "3000%" figure comes from. In playing around with the CDC data and percentage calculators the highest I can come up with is 1650 percent change... but we're still talking about a move from 0.08% risk (vaginal) vs 1.38% risk. A is higher than V, but the likelihood of infection remains very low regardless. And this is for unprotected sex. The entire point of sexual education is to inform youth as to how to protect themselves and make rational decisions.

The social conservatives, on the other hand, appear to prefer ignoring the reality that there exist LGBTQ+ folks in our society. Their stance is ideological, not factual. Ignoring reality won't make non-vanilla lights-off fumbling-in-the-dark P-to-V the only game in town.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Why is this such a big issue for you? Ford ran on this policy and the people voted him in. The 50,000 petitioners were outvoted. That's democracy.



CubaMark said:


> Regarding the 2015 Sex Ed plan (from my previous link):
> 
> ...nearly 50,000 had already signed an online petition asking the Premier to reconsider his stance before today's announcement.
> 
> ...


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

CubaMark said:


> The petition referred above is now beyond 60-thousand signatures.


So, lemme see. With the current population of Ontario nearing 14 million, that would mean less than one half of one percent signed that petition. Phhhttt. Means nothing, but does show the huge support for Ford's move.


----------



## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

SINC said:


> So, lemme see. With the current population of Ontario nearing 14 million, that would mean less than one half of one percent signed that petition. Phhhttt. Means nothing, but does show the huge support for Ford's move.


agreed - liberals always whine when they lose - they blame the electoral college same system that got them elected in and ruined the province..
They had 15 yrs to destroy the province and push their ideology - nows its the Conservative's turn to clean it up and correct the mess.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

macintosh doctor said:


> ...nows its the Conservative's turn to clean it up and correct the mess.


...by under- and mis-educating children, particularly those of LGBQT+ orientation, without any discussion of consent and cyber safety, etc. _ad nauseum._ 

Sure. That'll work. XX)


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Exactly.



macintosh doctor said:


> agreed - liberals always whine when they lose - they blame the electoral college same system that got them elected in and ruined the province..
> They had 15 yrs to destroy the province and push their ideology - nows its the Conservative's turn to clean it up and correct the mess.


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

how many people voted or signed petitions against the previous governments sex education teachings? I really do not follow what is going on with sex education but in my opinion the basics is all that is needed to be taught. Values and morals should be left to the parents not our government.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

The hallmark of the progressive is that no individual can be trusted to do anything of value without government either coercing them or usurping their independence and responsibilities.



wonderings said:


> how many people voted or signed petitions against the previous governments sex education teachings? I really do not follow what is going on with sex education but in my opinion the basics is all that is needed to be taught. Values and morals should be left to the parents not our government.


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

Macfury said:


> The hallmark of the progressive is that no individual can be trusted to do anything of value without government either coercing them or usurping their independence and responsibilities.


I heard briefly over lunch on AM640 they talked about this a bit. Some columnist or someone involved in this was pushing that parents cannot teach their children and are not capable. We have trained professionals is always something thrown about. Really if that were the case why let parents raise children at all? Another thing she threw out was that some kids come from abusive homes so they could not be expected to get the "right" education from home.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Their arguments are always based on some tiny splinter group that could not be reached unless you overturn the rights of millions.



wonderings said:


> Another thing she threw out was that some kids come from abusive homes so they could not be expected to get the "right" education from home.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Good.

Ontario government cancels 758 renewable energy contracts, says it will save millions

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canad...ontracts-says-it-will-save-millions-1.4012450


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

SINC said:


> Good.
> 
> Ontario government cancels 758 renewable energy contracts, says it will save millions
> 
> https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canad...ontracts-says-it-will-save-millions-1.4012450


This really cracks me up:


> "This is not about big business," he said. "This is about small rooftop projects that are owned by farmers and school boards and municipalities and First Nations groups. The folks that will be hurt are the installers and contractors and the engineers: the local guys, the little guys who have built up experience in building solar over the last few years."


Companies like IKEA snapped up these gravy-laden, taxpayer funded program spots before anyone else could.


----------



## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

CubaMark said:


> ...by under- and mis-educating children, particularly those of LGBQT+ orientation, without any discussion of consent and cyber safety, etc. _ad nauseum._
> 
> Sure. That'll work. XX)


there are 1 to 2% possible 3% that are LGBT - no need to force the whole population to believe it is 90% - 
Under the "new" sex ed which was written in whole by a liberal who is in prison for pedophila - it is pushing it way to hard and fast, for children and i repeat children who's minds are way too young to grasp what is being taught. 

my kids come home even more confused with questions that the school does not answer and I have to fill-in the blanks, the liberal sex ed was not working.. 

they should of done a slow and limited approach.. for example wait till grade 8/9 to inform the kids about Trans/LGBT where by that age they would be more understanding and knowledgeable of the facts.. i have nothing against it but teaching a 10 yr who's mind is already confused and under developed is just liberal brain washing.. forcing the parents to pick up where the school screwed up and did not fully explain and teach the topics properly.

what is more comical that all professionals agree that the mind is not able nor fully developed till age 25 - so even more so it was nothing more than a liberal agenda. Look at Bruce Jenner a 60 yr could not decide to take the full leap and remove his testicles for years.. and you think a child is able to decide their sexual orientation at 10 ?

Dont confuse cyber bulling with a sex ed course - i teach my kids about that as a separate topic and very important topic - including bulling as well - never should it have be looped in with the new sex ed.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

SINC said:


> Good.
> 
> Ontario government cancels 758 renewable energy contracts, says it will save millions
> 
> https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canad...ontracts-says-it-will-save-millions-1.4012450


*From the article to which you linked:*



> Gorman said t*he decision will likely lead to lawsuits*, and *since the government has not actually paid any money to the companies, cancelling them will not bring hydro prices down.*
> 
> "It's preposterous to try to tie the cancellation of these small rooftop projects to any savings on people's electricity bills," he said.
> 
> ...





> WPD Canada, the company behind the green energy project that has been under development for nearly a decade, said *the cancellation could cost more than $100 million and warned that the dispute could be headed to the courts.*


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

You know I don’t get what is with the F’ing Liberals and energy. They’ve screwed it up since the days of Trudeau senior to the Dumb Days of Dalton and now Wynne. Ford has drunk the kool-aid also. If I ran Ontario Hydro I would scrap all nuclear power plants as they are tooooooooo costly both during and after operation. You want to drop hydro prices.....buy what you need from Quebec.


----------



## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Rps said:


> You know I don’t get what is with the F’ing Liberals and energy.


All parties are frequently incompetent at energy policy. Ontario is particularly bad, across the board. I like to dwell on the exceptions so as not to get too frustrated.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

It will have a definite long-term benefit. Bring on the lawsuits. So-called "green" energy has died a well-deserved death in this province.




CubaMark said:


> *From the article to which you linked:*


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

CubaMark said:


> *From the article to which you linked:*


Still say good. Get rid of all that green crap and get real. Alberta will be next to tell the feds to shove it.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

_Another Ford promise kept - and gazillions of more money wasted...._

*Retiring Hydro One CEO can get $9-million compensation package, Globe analysis reveals*

Ontario Premier Doug Ford’s assertion that Hydro One’s retiring CEO will get “no severance” overlooks cash payments of about $9-million the utility will pay him for his stock, bonuses and other compensation.

In addition, Hydro One will pay its 14 directors about $4.9-million for their stock holdings, which they were required to keep as long as they were directors — tenures that are ending, en masse, in the coming weeks.

The numbers come from a Globe analysis of stock ownership records, the company’s proxy circular to shareholders, and an agreement between the provincial government and Hydro One that set the terms of departure for the board and Mr. Schmidt.

The compensation for CEO Mayo Schmidt is in addition to the $400,000 payment in lieu of postretirement benefits and allowances that Hydro One announced on Wednesday. While Mr. Schmidt will not receive any of the termination payments in his employment agreement, retiring allows him to keep lucrative stock awards he has received during his tenure as CEO. (Stock awards are shares given to an executive as part of his total compensation.) Had he resigned, he would have forfeited them.
(Globe & Mail)
_BTW: The Globe's paywall can be bypassed easily with Safari's "Reader View"_​
* * *

Don't think I'm on Schmidt's side with this - Hydro One's CEO (and most of them) is paid an obscene amount of money. Nobody needs to be pulling in salaries like that, particularly when we're in the middle of this insanely stupid debate over whether $15/hour —a 'living wage'— is too much for the economy to bear.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

The stock was theirs regardless.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

SINC said:


> Still say good. Get rid of all that green crap and get real. Alberta will be next to tell the feds to shove it.


When will Trudeau and other imbeciles in government stop the performance on the world stage to try and make them look good?

Canada produces less than 2% of world carbon and our trees eleiminate all but a fraction of that so we are carbon neutral or very close to it. Penalizing Canadians with crippling carbon and green taxes is the folly of those brain dead UN wannabees and Paris accord idiots. Screw 'em all. They are, and will continue to be, the scum of the nation until they get it.

Canadians cannot change anything, nor do we contribute much carbon. The world needs to go after the real polluting nations, not us.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

people like Trudeau and Obama see themselves as powerful players in an unfolding world government, so they take the globalist side wherever possible.



SINC said:


> When will Trudeau and other imbeciles in government stop the performance on the world stage to try and make them look good?
> 
> Canada produces less than 2% of world carbon and our trees eleiminate all but a fraction of that so we are carbon neutral or very close to it. Penalizing Canadians with crippling carbon and green taxes is the folly of those brain dead UN wannabees and Paris accord idiots. Screw 'em all. They are, and will continue to be, the scum of the nation until they get it.
> 
> Canadians cannot change anything, nor do we contribute much carbon. The world needs to go after the real polluting nations, not us.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

This lady gets it and is completely correct on gender in stating there are only two. I submit that if there is in fact an additional gender, it would be male, female and 'you need your head read'.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opi...-sex-ed-backlash-isnt-about-childrens-safety/

*Ontario’s Sex-Ed Backlash Isn’t About Children’s Safety
*
From the link:



> I, too, was once a vocal supporter of the updated sex-ed curriculum, but watching how its unscientific claims about gender identity have spread so prevalently has dampened my enthusiasm. The curriculum promotes the idea that there are more than two genders and that gender identity is socially constructed.
> 
> The fact that few people have pointed out how these teachings aren’t based in science should raise a red flag in parents’ minds.
> 
> ...


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

This is absolutely the point of Wynne's program SINC. Government gets to impose its idea of what is male and female on the population. It's just another method to undermine people's sense of identity. You're not male or female, because government decides that!



SINC said:


> This lady gets it and is completely correct on gender in stating there are only two. I submit that if there is in fact an additional gender, it would be male, female and 'you need your head read'.
> 
> https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opi...-sex-ed-backlash-isnt-about-childrens-safety/
> 
> ...


----------



## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

SINC said:


> This lady gets it and is completely correct on gender in stating there are only two. I submit that if there is in fact an additional gender, it would be male, female and 'you need your head read'.
> 
> https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opi...-sex-ed-backlash-isnt-about-childrens-safety/
> 
> ...


Wow. Just wow.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Good. The more of these that can be flushed out, the better.

Horwath steers NDP hard to the left



> *An indication of what we’re in for from NDP leader Andrea Horwath and her caucus for the next four years was her absurd allegation last week that PC Community Safety Minister Michael Tibollo’s comment he wore a bullet-proof vest during a police ride-along in Jane-Finch was racist.*
> 
> Horwath’s charge was so over-the-top, given that Tibollo didn’t say anything about race, it begs the question, what was Horwath thinking?


Bold mine.

Unbelievable.

Related:

Mayor's comment not exactly bullet-proof



> Mayor John Tory — in yet another effort to pander to the city’s leftist “progressives” — claimed during his daily photo opp Thursday that’s he’s “never been asked” to wear a bullet-proof vest during a ride-along with Toronto police.
> 
> His remark, which didn’t exactly ingratiate him with some police officials, was no doubt an attempt to join the virtue signalling in the wake of faux outrage from NDP leader Andrea Horwath over the story.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Telling It Like It Is: While Other Politicians Avoid The Truth, Doug Ford Still Says “Illegal Border Crossers”



> While other politicians use weasel-words to avoid the crisis at the border, calling it “irregular migration,” “irregular crossings,” or simply “asylum seeking,” Ontario Premier Doug Ford continues to stand out as someone who is standing up for the integrity of Canada’s laws.
> 
> In a recent Tweet, Ford said _“Pleased to stand with Premier Couillard and Premier Pallister to call on the federal government to pay their fair share. I have been clear that the costs for *illegal border crossers* is the responsibility of the federal government.”_


M'bold.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

[Toronto] City council asked to approve $44-million plan to reduce gun violence

In sum:



> I have no idea what that jargon quoted above means other than it absolves the “community” of responsibility as usual. This is what Liberal-left cities do every-time, more money, more money, and still more money is thrown out the window and the problems always gets worse. Maybe they could stop teaching the “community” victimhood in the schools. Maybe stop covering up “community” violence in the schools and expel the perpetrators regardless if they belong to the designated “community”. Maybe evict the criminal “community” from Toronto Housing. Nah too hard, too easy to blame it all on systemic racism or white privilege or whatever excuse they can muster.
> 
> When government surrenders to the worst elements of the “community” like Black Lives Matter and the usual cast of race hucksters the rest of us roll our eyes and get on with our lives.
> 
> *The “community” is self-marginalizing and I had nothing to do with it.*


Bold mine.

Yeppers.

Related:

Things “Experts” Believe: Convicted gun felons tell Toronto Study that anything but themselves to blame for making them go Gangsta



> Racism? Thank goodness I now know I am to blame, when in doubt play the white guilt card!
> 
> “…experiencing gun violence could lead a child to buy a gun to protect himself” How did that slip in here? That’s the closest anyone has come to placing the “blame” on the right shoulders potentially giving cause for the “community” to engage in self-reflection so I know you don’t mean that.
> 
> ...


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Doug Ford is already getting good things done!

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/ch...wn-to-size-is-a-much-needed-jolt-to-democracy

Toronto has 47 councilors, to be reduced to 25. New York city has three times as many people with 51.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

I predict that, in less than two months, she'll be calling Ford "Literally Hitler".

Andrea Horwath Falsely Accuses Ford of Acting like a Dictator



> According to recent reports, NDP leader Andrea Horwath has accused Doug Ford of acting like a ‘dictator’, in the recent dispute for cutting the Toronto council in half before the municipal elections.
> 
> Whatever you believe concerning the recent cuts in the Toronto municipal council, Horwath’s remarks are unsubstantiated, as Ford is fully within his legal jurisdictions to actualize such a move.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Hamiltonians slam Ontario Premier Doug Ford for slashing basic income program



> Hamilton officials excoriated Ontario Premier Doug Ford and his Progressive Conservative government a day after Minister of Social Services Lisa Macleod cancelled the basic income project that was supposed to operate for three years.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I'll slam Hamiltonians for supporting this joke of a study!



FeXL said:


> Hamiltonians slam Ontario Premier Doug Ford for slashing basic income program


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

FeXL said:


> Hamiltonians slam Ontario Premier Doug Ford for slashing basic income program


Yeah, well, it sucks when conservatism comes back and bites you in the ass, eh?

*Ontario PC voter worried about family's future without basic income pilot*

Ontario's new Progressive Conservative government announced on Tuesday it is winding down a basic income pilot project, breaking an election promise not to scrap the program that was brought in by the Liberals.

Single people in the pilot were getting up to $17,000 a year. For couples it was $24,000 — with few strings attached. 

The idea was to study how the money affected people living on very low incomes, or provincial support programs. It was set to last three years. But just 15 months in, it's over. 

Andrew Shaver lives in Thunder Bay and he was part of the initiative. 

* * *​
*...if you had the ear of Premier Doug Ford, as a PC supporter yourself, what would you like to say to him?*

_I'd like to say that, to me, when I got into this project it was as if the government was making a promise to me. I know it was a different government but when people are building their lives around a promise made by the government then the government should be forced to keep that.

And it's dirty pool to just yank the carpet right out from under people. _​
*And during the campaign the Progressive Conservatives...*

_Yeah, they said they weren't going to cancel it. _​
*And here we are.*

_Yeah. So, not terribly happy with them right now._​
(CBC)​


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

CubaMark said:


> Yeah, well, it sucks when conservatism comes back and bites you in the ass, eh?
> 
> *Ontario PC voter worried about family's future without basic income pilot*
> 
> ...


Never heard of this program but reading the article you linked I have some questions. First off, why are they getting free money with little to no strings attached? I first assumed it was for people with disabilities who maybe could not work or hold down a full time job but then read further in where people with disabilities received an extra $6000. 

- What is different about this program then welfare? Just more money?


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

wonderings said:


> What is different about this program then welfare? Just more money?


Yep!


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Sounds more like a win/win to me.

And, we could count the number of times liberalism has come back & bit people in the ass, too, but I don't know my numbers above a quadrillion.

'Sides, any idiot who plans their future around anything _any_ gov't says is, frankly, an idiot.



CubaMark said:


> Yeah, well, it sucks when conservatism comes back and bites you in the ass, eh?


Related:


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Macfury said:


> Yep!


Couldn't have put it better myself!


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

wonderings said:


> Never heard of this program but reading the article you linked I have some questions....


Guaranteed Income. It's an idea that's been batted around for some time, as the net cost of the program is piddling. If implemented nationally, with federal & provincial co-operation, it would result in the elimination of a considerable amount of bureaucracy at both levels of government and reduce the federal workforce not insignificantly - which is why it's received interest from both the Left and the Right. There was an experiment with this concept in Manitoba in 1974 with quite positive results.

This was previously discussed in ehMac back in 2013.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

CubaMark said:


> Guaranteed Income. There was an experiment[/URL] with this concept in Manitoba in 1974 with quite positive results.


Was the positive part that it was never adopted and just why was that?


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

SINC said:


> Was the positive part that it was never adopted and just why was that?


It was positive because the people who got the free money said it improved their lives. Never mind that it marginally worsened the lives of all of the unwilling donors.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Macfury said:


> It was positive because the people who got the free money said it improved their lives. Never mind that it marginally worsened the lives of all of the unwilling donors.


Ah, of course. Silly me.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

I'm willing to bet those identical cuts could be made sans the GI & the level of gov't service still wouldn't change...



CubaMark said:


> ...and reduce the federal workforce not insignificantly...


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

FeXL said:


> I'm willing to bet those identical cuts could be made sans the GI & the level of gov't service still wouldn't change...


What you'd get is a basic income PLUS all of the existing programs, and the same number of workers. Progs only tout cuts in workforce when they have something really nasty planned for you.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Less about Ontario politics, more about the narcissistic selfie mindset. Didn't want to start a new thread.


‘We’re closed forever!’: How the search for the perfect selfie led to bedlam at an Ontario sunflower farm



> There’s one thing the Bogle family wants to make clear off the top: no more pictures.
> 
> Their sunflower farm is closed to Facebookers, Instagrammers, Snapchatters (Snappers?) and all the other social-media looky-loos who tromped over their crops and plugged local roads for kilometres around over the weekend.
> 
> ...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Entitled leftists fill emergency meeting with hot air



> Another hot August night, another emergency meeting hosted by the hot-on-their-own-importance downtown leftists to save their own political hides.
> 
> This one was the creation of the Bike Lane twins and council champions of the business-busting King St. pilot, Joe Cressy and Mike Layton — not to be confused with a similar hot air-fest hosted by former Manitoba communist Paula Fletcher or one planned for Wednesday at the behest of radical NDPer Kristyn Wong-Tam.
> 
> ...


Their tears should be slurped up like water from an oasis in the driest desert... :lmao:


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I don't demand much from my councillor, except that she do less and spend less.



FeXL said:


> Their tears should be slurped up like water from an oasis in the driest desert... :lmao:


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Macfury said:


> I don't demand much from my councillor, except that she do less and spend less.


A politician I could support...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

No more Hug-A-Thug... 



> _"We’re coming after you. We’re going to catch you and you’re going to end up in jail."_​
> Holy crap!!!! Instead of going after farmers, hunters and other legitimate firearms owners... Premier Doug Ford is targeting actual criminals!


Wait...wha?!


----------



## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

An interesting development. Can't remember which one but the Harpoon did sign on to a trade agreement which makes this whole thing possible. OTOH His Orangeness has been violating trade agreements at a record clip, even for the notoriously unreliable Excited States of America, so is the agreement even still in force?

Then of course had Tesla managed to deliver anywhere close to its promises, then there would be no lost rebates to mourn.

One thing we know for sure is several lawyers will be sending their kids to Harvard thanks to this little spat. Will be fun to watch it unfold.

https://driving.ca/tesla/auto-news/...-ontario-government-over-cancelled-ev-rebates



> As has made headlines around the world, Tesla originally received deposits for more than 400,000 Model 3s, many bought by Ontario customers. The problem, says the application, is that the Ontario government sees Tesla Canada as a subsidiary of the company’s manufacturing arm whereas the company itself contends that Tesla Canada is nothing more than a dealership network. For those not au courante on Tesla business models, it has no franchised dealerships and owns all its outlets, therefore it contends that Model 3s already on the ground should not be excluded from the government’s transition plan. But, according to Tesla, the MTO specified that “vehicles that have been orders directly from an original equipment manufacturer [as the government of Ontatio considers Tesla_ed.] but which have not been delivered, registered and plated on or before July 11, 2018 are not eligible for n EHVIP incentive.”
> 
> 
> In other words, those Model 3 owners who might have taken delivery between July 11th and September 10th would not have received the same incentive as owners of competitive electric vehicles. Tesla calls this exclusion “arbitrary and targeted” and, for the first time in quite some time, Motor Mouth agrees with Tesla.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I remember Musk saying he just hated those incentives--wished they were gone.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Macfury said:


> I remember Musk saying he just hated those incentives--wished they were gone.


Apparently he's had a change of heart...

Tesla suing Ontario government over cancellation of electric vehicle rebates



> The Canadian arm of Tesla, Inc., is taking the Ontario government to court, claiming it has been treated unfairly in the cancellation of a program providing rebates to residents who bought electric vehicles.
> 
> In an application for judicial review, Tesla Motors Canada says the decision by Premier Doug Ford’s government to halt the program in July left hundreds of its customers no longer eligible for rebates they expected to get when they ordered their vehicles.


"We're entitled to our entitlements!!!"


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Why does Doug Ford hate poor children?* Oh, it's the Liberal's fault. _Riiiiiight....._










*MPP calls on Ford gov't to reverse cuts to after-school program for at-risk youth*

In a news release issued Thursday, Bhutila Karpoche said cutting the $500,000 in funding to Sistema Toronto, which provides free music education to 275 students and their families in neighbourhoods such as Parkdale, Jane-Finch, and East Scarborough, will have a “devastating” impact on Toronto communities.

“Instead of providing support to communities that are struggling with some of the highest child poverty rates in Toronto, Doug Ford’s government has decided to pull the rug out from under at-risk children,” Karpoche’s statement read.

"We need to be investing in community programs like Sistema Toronto that provide much-needed opportunities in priority neighbourhoods and help break the cycle of poverty.”

Sistema, which issued its own news release on Thursday morning, said the cuts will mean the organization will not be able to serve as many children in the community.

“The Ministry of Tourism, Culture and Sport announced late last week that the Government of Ontario is cutting the $500,000 in funding promised to Sistema Toronto in May 2018,” the group said in the news release.

“The loss of funding means that Sistema Toronto will serve fewer at-risk children and support fewer of Toronto families living in poverty, leaving dozens of priority kids without any means to change their futures.”

In a statement sent to CP24 Thursday, the director of communications for MPP Sylvia Jones, the minister of Tourism, Culture and Sport, blamed the previous Liberal government for the funding cut. 

"The day the election was called, the previous minister committed funding to this organization without going through the proper approval process. Unfortunately, Sistema does not meet the criteria for this grant and is not eligible for funding. It is unfortunate that the Liberals put Sistema in this position," the statement read.

(CP24)​


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

CubaMark said:


> *Why does Doug Ford hate poor children?* Oh, it's the Liberal's fault. _Riiiiiight....._
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So this group did not go through due process to get money that maybe a group that meets the requirements could use, not sure I see the problem. They also speak pretty highly of this group and little of the people who attend. "leaving dozens of priority kids without any means to change their futures." I guess they are hopeless without this music program. I have a little more faith in humanity myself. Not sure what people want here, should we toss out all requirements and just give money to everyone? If they want funding they should do it like everyone else. Not sure why they went through without meeting all the requirments if it is that crucial.


Regarding the buck-a-beer, did something change where they are now giving subsidies for that? As far as I know the only benefit given to brewers was some upfront shelf space at the LCBO and would hardly call that a serious subsidy and really costs nothing to the tax payers whereas the Liberals gave money to small brewers, a couple of million if memory serves me right.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

wonderings said:


> So this group did not go through due process to get money that maybe a group that meets the requirements could use, not sure I see the problem.


OR, perhaps the criteria for community group funding has changed under the Ford regime. Not enough details to evaluate. Please, do feel free to dig up more info.



wonderings said:


> Regarding the buck-a-beer, did something change where they are now giving subsidies for that? As far as I know the only benefit given to brewers was some upfront shelf space at the LCBO and would hardly call that a serious subsidy and really costs nothing to the tax payers whereas the Liberals gave money to small brewers, a couple of million if memory serves me right.


_Doug Ford – the brother of the late Toronto mayor Rob Ford – Ontario’s new government announced Tuesday that it would introduce legislation to roll back the minimum price of a bottle or can of beer in Canada’s most populous province by the end of August.

* * *

It will be left to the province’s 260 brewers to decide whether they want to drop their prices, prompting some to question whether the legislation will actually amount to buck-a-beer as promised.

* * *

In order to encourage producers to lower their prices, Ford said his government would launch the buck-a-beer challenge, which would offer promotional programs, in-store displays and advertising to those who sell their beer at the minimum price.

Social scientists around the world have long pointed to Canada – the first country in the world to introduce minimum pricing on alcohol – to highlight the link between higher prices and lower rates of alcohol-related deaths and hospital admissions._
(The Guardian UK)​


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

My, what an ol' grampa you have become, CM.


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

CubaMark said:


> OR, perhaps the criteria for community group funding has changed under the Ford regime. Not enough details to evaluate. Please, do feel free to dig up more info.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The article says the "The day the election was called, the previous minister committed funding to this organization without going through the proper approval process."

To me this pretty clearly says the previous minister gave money without going through the proper approval process. It is not saying it no longer meets approval of the new government. It was pushed through without due process. I wonder if it is because it appears to be a somewhat high profile charity with such people like Yo Yo Ma as ambassadors. The article you posted says it did not go through the proper approval process, to me that says pull the plug and let them apply like everyone else. As nice a charity as it might be they have to do it the same as everyone else. 

I have no issues with the incentive our Premier has offered to brewers, I am guessing the cost will be far less then what the liberals gave to small breweries. It also allows the breweries freedom if they so choose to make a cheaper beer they can know it will actually be sold. Not sure why we all feel we need the government controlling how cheap alcohol should be, just more of the nanny state at work. Let the market decide and I am guessing few will go for this buck a beer, especially the small breweries as their overhead will be much higher then the big guys who could produce in quantity to make profit on a dollar a beer. 

Still not sure why this is being brought up with every issue, like the government is only capable of doing one thing at a time. Also not sure why the constant need to connect him to his brother, we know already, or is this trying to slander him in some no so sneaky way by reminding people of the antics of his brother and thus create that fear "oh no he could be just like him!". 

The charity did not do things properly so funding is pulled, that is all there basically is to that story and the Premier offers an incentive IF breweries decide to take it and make a cheaper beer, if not business as usual.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

wonderings said:


> The article says the "The day the election was called, the previous minister committed funding to this organization without going through the proper approval process."


Read more closely: 

_...the director of communications for MPP Sylvia Jones, the minister of Tourism, Culture and Sport, blamed the previous Liberal government for the funding cut. 
"The day the election was called, the previous minister committed funding to this organization without going through the proper approval process. Unfortunately, Sistema does not meet the criteria for this grant and is not eligible for funding. It is unfortunate that the Liberals put Sistema in this position," the statement read._​
Ford's government spokesperson said that - this hasn't been fact-checked. It may be true, but nothing in that article indicates that this is has been vetted.

I find your take on the buck-a-beer issue confusing, but it's not high on my pile of axes to grind... 



wonderings said:


> Still not sure why this is being brought up with every issue, like the government is only capable of doing one thing at a time. Also not sure why the constant need to connect him to his brother, we know already, or is this trying to slander him in some no so sneaky way by reminding people of the antics of his brother and thus create that fear "oh no he could be just like him!".


The mention of Doug's relation to his brother Rob I don't believe was an attempt to tie him to Rob's disastrous mayorship.... nor do I think Doug needs any help in revealing his nature to anyone who has read a newspaper / news website in the past 10 years.... 



wonderings said:


> The charity did not do things properly so funding is pulled, that is all there basically is to that story....


_Perhaps_. That's what Ford's new government has alleged. I'd like to see a reporter actually fact-check that bit. But you cannot make that conclusion based upon the article posted above.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

> But you cannot make that conclusion based upon the article posted above.


Neither can you make the conclusions you've been trumpeting about CM. 

And Rob Ford was actually a pretty good mayor, circus aside. Would have voted for him again over wishy-washy John Tory.


----------



## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Was an obvious ruling. Still I wonder how many of those cars Tesla can actually deliver in 13 days.

https://driving.ca/tesla/auto-news/news/judge-rules-in-favour-of-tesla-in-ontario-rebate-dispute



> Ontario Superior Court judge Frederick L. Myers said the decision to exclude Tesla from a grace period for the program’s wind-down was arbitrary and had singled out Tesla for harm.
> 
> 
> Tesla launched the legal petition after Ontario’s Progressive Conservative government ended the rebate program on July 11, but said it would extend the rebates to vehicles already sold through dealerships if they were delivered and registered within 60 days.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Macfury said:


> Neither can you make the conclusions you've been trumpeting about CM.


Re-read my posts: I'm asking whether the claim as vetted. I'm surprised you missed that.



Macfury said:


> And Rob Ford was actually a pretty good mayor, circus aside. Would have voted for him again over wishy-washy John Tory.


Yeah, that stick-in-the-mud John Tory. Why doesn't he go out and smoke some nice crack for crissake? :lmao:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjdTi1r-yRQ[/ame]


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

CubaMark said:


> Re-read my posts: I'm asking whether the claim as vetted. I'm surprised you missed that.


I didn't. I'm surprised you felt it worth posting an article which was so unsure of itself.



CubaMark said:


> Yeah, that stick-in-the-mud John Tory. Why doesn't he go out and smoke some nice crack...


This is what I'm saying. For all his crack-smoking, Ford did a better job than Tory. Maybe you're right and Tory could use a hit.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Further on that "Buck A Beer" thing...

Ford Country



> Aug. 9, 2018 – Toronto Star – No way brewers will go down to Buck-A-Beer.
> 
> Aug. 21, 2018 – Toronto Star – &*^%$&*ing Loblaws.


Found this comment prescient:



> I would have supported Ford more on this one if he had said something to the effect that “minimum price laws are stupid and you can sell your product for whatever you want,” rather than keeping the minimum price law, but at a lower level.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

_Efficiency, both in cost and performance, is always desired - but should never take precedence over the provision of essential services. 

Something tells me (history; experience; logic) that Ford's push here has more to do with an ideological obsession with cutting staff and resources to the bone without prioritizing outcomes. In health care, that's particularly dangerous._

*ONTARIO HOSPITALS WILL NEED TO FIND 'EFFICIENT' WAYS TO OPERATE: ELLIOTT*

Ontario's health minister says the province will address hospital overcrowding issues but any action must be done with an eye to fiscal restraint.

Christine Elliott made the comments today as she addressed a gathering of health-care executives organized by the Ontario Hospital Association.

Elliott said the government must address the problem, but acknowledged that Ontario faces ``difficult financial times.''

She said the health-care sector will have to find ways to operate more efficiently and that will require ``system transformation.''

Premier Doug Ford promised during the spring election to create 15,000 long-term care beds within five years, and 30,000 over the next 10 years to relieve pressure on hospitals.

The government has hired a former hospital CEO to head a new council tasked with finding ways to improve the health-care system.
(610CKTB)​


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Yep, throwing more money at health care is not going to change anything. Time to get rid of bad managers, sloopy buying hanits and general waste that pervades health care everywhere. A good solid fiscal plan needs to be put in place.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

'Bout time somebody in Canuckistan did this.

Ontario Says Colleges Must Adopt UChicago Free Speech Principles Or Lose Funding

For those of you who have not seen their commitment:


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

FeXL said:


> 'Bout time somebody in Canuckistan did this.
> 
> Ontario Says Colleges Must Adopt UChicago Free Speech Principles Or Lose Funding
> 
> For those of you who have not seen their commitment:


U of Chicago had a video out a while back expressing similar sentiments. I applaud them for taking a stand against the current trend in schools.


----------



## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

FeXL said:


> 'Bout time somebody in Canuckistan did this.
> 
> Ontario Says Colleges Must Adopt UChicago Free Speech Principles Or Lose Funding
> 
> For those of you who have not seen their commitment:


That's a good start. We'll see if there's follow through enforcement and defunding of useless/destructive programs.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

I jes' luvs me a Premiere who is willing to use the Constitution to back his argument.

Delicious



> Good on Premier Ford.
> 
> The hand-wringing and head explosions from the out of touch media is a beauty to behold.
> 
> This morning as they prepared their sanctimonious news stories, brimming with barely hidden contempt for Ford, he up-ended them. No soup for you.


Frankly, I'd like Kenney to use the NWS clause a couple dozen times after he gets elected, too.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Monopolizing healthcare under the control of the government is dangerous. Turns people into supplicants.



CubaMark said:


> Something tells me (history; experience; logic) that Ford's push here has more to do with an ideological obsession with cutting staff and resources to the bone without prioritizing outcomes. In health care, that's particularly dangerous


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

FeXL said:


> I jes' luvs me a Premiere who is willing to use the Constitution to back his argument.
> 
> Delicious
> 
> Frankly, I'd like Kenney to use the NWS clause a couple dozen times after he gets elected, too.


Parts of the referred _Toronto Star _article referred cracked me up:


> Ontario premiers of all political persuasions managed to govern while respecting our fundamental rights. All eight of them — Davis, Miller, Peterson, Rae, Harris, Eves, McGuinty and Wynne — dealt with weighty, controversial issues. The province grew and prospered.


All except Rae, McGuinty and Wynne.



> A legislative majority does not mean a premier has a blank cheque to do whatever the heck he wants.


Unless it's the _Star_ supporting McGuinty or Wynne.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/edi...trampling-on-the-rights-of-all-ontarians.html


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Ya gotta love Blatchford for this one. I don't know about others, but I am tired as hell with rule by judges right up to the Supreme Court. Who gave these "common folks" the right to make decisions that are often just so very wrong? Time to rein in all judges.

*Christie Blatchford: Doug Ford has a point — he was elected; the judge was not*



> This Ontario government, whatever its flaws, is brave enough to use the notwithstanding clause that is, after all, there to be used.
> 
> There is real gut-level truth to what Ontario Premier Doug Ford said Monday, as he announced that he’s recalling the Legislature and will invoke the sacred notwithstanding clause to override the Ontario Superior Court decision which earlier in the day tossed his attempt to cut Toronto City Council almost in half.
> 
> ...


More at the link.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/ch...-has-a-point-he-was-elected-the-judge-was-not


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Macfury said:


> Parts of the referred _Toronto Star _article referred cracked me up:


Yep. Pretty funny, the double standards.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Macfury said:


> Monopolizing healthcare under the control of the government is dangerous. Turns people into supplicants.


Right. Because people participating in the "free" market as customers of pharmaceutical corporations and medical services companies will certainly result in affordable, accessible health care for all, including those with pre-existing conditions.

_Riiiiight._


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Health care isn't affordable The cost is simply hidden in high taxes.



CubaMark said:


> Right. Because people participating in the "free" market as customers of pharmaceutical corporations and medical services companies will certainly result in affordable, accessible health care for all, including those with pre-existing conditions.
> 
> _Riiiiight._


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Macfury said:


> Health care isn't affordable The cost is simply hidden in high taxes.


If you believe that government should not be involved as an intermediary between health care services and the general public, please outline your concept.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

First answer my contention about health care "affordability." Do you see health care as "affordable" just because you're forcing other people to pay for you?



CubaMark said:


> If you believe that government should not be involved as an intermediary between health care services and the general public, please outline your concept.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Macfury said:


> First answer my contention about health care "affordability." Do you see health care as "affordable" just because you're forcing other people to pay for you?


If health care for all in a society is a desired goal - and I firmly believe it's in all of our best interests that our fellow citizens have no-pay access to health care services including pharmaceuticals - then it's not a question of "forcing" others to pay "for you" - it's choosing to dedicate a portion of the national income to achieve that goal... 

The mechanism (for those of you who can't stand the idea of paying for someone else's life-saving surgery) to opt-out of the system would be en enormous burden to implement for a very few dissenters.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

There is no "no-pay." It's hidden pay. The "pool of national income" is not some natural resource. It belongs to every individual who earns it according to how much of it they earn. There is no "choosing to dedicate a portion" of this income--there is only the decision by some to confiscate from others. 

I don't believe "health care for all" is even a workable goal. The growing percentage of government budgets devoted to delivering inadequate or diminishing services will end badly. Even now, the poor service available consumes almost half of some provinces' budgets and is achieved by rationing services across time.

You can't take a very expensive commodity and pretend it's affordable by playing a shell game with the cash used to fund it.



CubaMark said:


> If health care for all in a society is a desired goal - and I firmly believe it's in all of our best interests that our fellow citizens have no-pay access to health care services including pharmaceuticals - then it's not a question of "forcing" others to pay "for you" - it's choosing to dedicate a portion of the national income to achieve that goal...
> 
> The mechanism (for those of you who can't stand the idea of paying for someone else's life-saving surgery) to opt-out of the system would be en enormous burden to implement for a very few dissenters.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Macfury said:


> There is no "no-pay." It's hidden pay. The "pool of national income" is not some natural resource. It belongs to every individual who earns it according to how much of it they earn. There is no "choosing to dedicate a portion" of this income--there is only the decision by some to confiscate from others.
> 
> I don't believe "health care for all" is even a workable goal. The growing percentage of government budgets devoted to delivering inadequate or diminishing services will end badly. Even now, the poor service available consumes almost half of some provinces' budgets and is achieved by rationing services across time.
> 
> You can't take a very expensive commodity and pretend it's affordable by playing a shell game with the cash used to fund it.


Nails it.

:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Hey, let's talk about her Wynneing legacy!

Of course Wynne is to blame for job losses



> The governing Ontario PCs were quick to put the blame for Ontario’s falling job numbers squarely where they belong, at the feet of Kathleen Wynne.
> 
> Sure the former Liberal premier lost power in the June and sure Doug Ford and the PCs were sworn in at the end of June. But the job losses we have seen over the last year are, at least in part and I’d argue a large part, the responsibility of Wynne and her policies.
> 
> “The latest job numbers are a reminder of the Wynne Liberals’ 15-year legacy of scandal, waste and mismanagement,” said economic development minister Jim Wilson in a statement.


More:



> While labour laws have a place in protecting workers from unscrupulous employers, the balance now is all out of whack.
> 
> Labour laws shouldn’t make it harder to give people a job.


Yep.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Political left don't think elections matter



> When Ontario Premier Doug Ford says his government is being targeted with lawsuits from special interest groups, he is spot on.
> 
> Ford’s government is facing a series of court actions launched by activist groups and a collection of Liberal and NDP interests.
> 
> It’s an attempt to ensure Ontario is ruled by litigation, not legislation.


It's time to start countersuing. The only way the bastards will back off is if they get called into court, accompanied by expensive lawyers, & get their asses handed to them, along with court costs.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

FeXL said:


> Political left don't think elections matter
> 
> It's time to start countersuing. The only way the bastards will back off is if they get called into court, accompanied by expensive lawyers, & get their asses handed to them, along with court costs.


Ford's not folding up like a cheap suit--he's here to kick ass!


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

So, every donut eater on the planet will be able to apply!

Ont. Police College scraps physical fitness testing for recruits



> The Ontario Police College is scrapping their physical fitness testing for new recruits, according to a memo obtained by CTV News Toronto.
> 
> The Physical Readiness Evaluation for Police (PREP) test consists of an interval training course that assesses a recruit’s overall fitness level, strength and endurance.
> 
> ...


M'bold.

Like, say, when someone steals their donut?


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Woohoo!

FORD AND PCs WIN: Court of Appeal grants stay of ruling on cutting council



> A 25-ward city council election will be held on Oct. 22, Ontario’s highest court ruled Wednesday.
> 
> The Ontario Court of Appeal granted the province a stay of Justice Edward Belobaba’s ruling last week that declared Bill 5 as unconstitutional, meaning the city will proceed with a downsized council election instead of the 47-ward election.
> 
> “The question for the courts is not whether Bill 5 is unfair, but whether it is unconstitutional,” the judges said in the ruling. “On that crucial question, we have concluded that there is a strong likelihood that application judge (Belobaba) erred in law and that the attorney general’s appeal to this court will succeed.”


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Didn't even need the "notwithstanding"..,

I have to be honest, there's only one person I know who is upset about this business--and she's upset about ANYTHING done by a PC government. I think most of Toronto is quietly grateful.



FeXL said:


> Woohoo!
> 
> FORD AND PCs WIN: Court of Appeal grants stay of ruling on cutting council


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Trudeau vs Ford on NAFTA in Washington



> Trudeau can’t get the job done.
> 
> _It appears the Trudeau Liberals are playing chicken with the NAFTA talks and your job, or that of your neighbour, could be the real life collateral damage._​
> Seems Trudeau and his team want to go past the deadline set by Trump and the Mexicans. Read more here.
> ...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Wynne, McGuinty spent recklessly



> So now we know, conclusively, that the 15-year Liberal government in Ontario, led by Kathleen Wynne and Dalton McGuinty, didn’t have a revenue problem.
> 
> It had a spending problem.


Nah...

More:



> “Expressed in today’s dollars, total operating expenditures have risen 55% or $46.4 billion, at a compound annual rate of 3.0% … and over the 15 years examined, outpaced Ontario population growth by 1.9%.
> 
> “Had expenditures increased in line with population growth, 2017-18 expenditures would have been $31.9 billion less, and in total, would have been $331 billion lower over 15 years.
> 
> “Provincial debt over that same period almost doubled, increasing 87% or $158 billion (in today’s dollars) to $338 billion, and annual interest on debt charges grew $2.4 billion (in today’s dollars) to $12.6 billion per annum in 2017-18. Interest on debt is Ontario’s 4th largest expenditure.”


The NDP are pikers...


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Not a positive indication of where Ford's regime is going.... 

*Doug Ford drops water bomb*
_Premier's closed-door meeting with China-owned company raises the spectre of future water sell-offs for industrial use_

Opposition MPPs want Premier Doug Ford to explain why he secretly met with a China-owned company seeking to extract some 1.6 million litres a day from an aquifer in Guelph/Eramosa Township.

According to the NDP, the province’s integrity commissioner has no record of the meeting, or any record of lobbyists registered to act on behalf of the company with the province.

Ford mentioned the meeting during an exchange with Green Party leader Mike Schreiner during question period in the Legislature on September 17.

Ford rose to respond to Schreiner’s question about Ford’s plan to cut Toronto council in half.

But rather than answer that, the premier tried a bit of deflection and railed against a decision by “Guelph,” which Schreiner represents, to reject a plan by glass manufacturer Xinyi Glass to set up a facility in the southern Ontario city.

“I’m sure there are jurisdictions all around Ontario that would love a glass company,” Ford crowed. “Who refuses 400 jobs?” he added, before saying Etobicoke or Scarborough would be happy to take them.

Except, the decision to reject Xinyi’s application was made over environmental concerns that the proposed facility would drain the region’s drinking water supplies.

To add insult, the decision was made by Guelph/Eramosa Township, which is in Wellington County just outside Guelph, an area represented by one of Ford’s own MPPs, Ted Arnott, who doubles as the Legislature’s Speaker.
(NOW Toronto)​


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Where's your criticism of where Wynne's regime went?



CubaMark said:


> Not a positive indication of where Ford's regime is going....


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Well, it's the correct answer but, like most politicians, especially Prog politicians, he don't have a clew why.

Ontario made the 'right call' in voting out Liberals, interim leader says



> John Fraser, who was one of only seven Liberals to win a seat in June's vote that gave Doug Ford's Progressive Conservatives a majority government, told the Ontario Liberal Provincial Council the party must acknowledge and learn from its mistakes.
> 
> “The truth is last June voters told us in pretty unequivocal terms, they'd had enough of us. That after 15 years, they wanted change,” Fraser said.
> 
> ...


Yeah, my bold.

Not. Even. Close.

The message was crystal clear.

Swing & a miss, there, Johnny. Care to try again?


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

FeXL said:


> Where's your criticism of where Wynne's regime went?


As I have mentioned in earlier posts, Wynne's decision to privatize Hydro One was only one of the disasters afflicting Ontario. Do you somehow mistake me for a pro-Liberal? That's rather hilarious....

Back to the actual topic at hand, you know, the government currently in power in Ontario:

Do you support Ford's potential giveaway of fresh water supplies to a corporation (Chinese or otherwise)?


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

There isn't enough detail there to decide if it should be supported or not.



CubaMark said:


> Do you support Ford's potential giveaway of fresh water supplies to a corporation (Chinese or otherwise)?


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

The only disaster afflicting Ontario has been the political left. Not only the Liberals & NDP, but the CINO's.



CubaMark said:


> As I have mentioned in earlier posts, Wynne's decision to privatize Hydro One was only one of the disasters afflicting Ontario. Do you somehow mistake me for a pro-Liberal? That's rather hilarious....


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Sure. You'll spout Liberal talking points whenever it means bashing a Conservative.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Doug must be dong something right if he's pi$$ing off the Red Star.

Star accuses Doug Ford of murder



> The Star published a column by Dennis Raphael, a professor in health policy and management at York University.
> 
> How does the good professor arrive at this conclusion that Ford is killing people?
> 
> ...


As opposed to, say, Raphael, who has terminal stupidity?


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

So, Ford is willing to do what Turdeau refuses to do? Not near severe enough, but it is a start. 

*Premier Doug Ford Announces Tough CRACKDOWN On Returning ISIS Terrorists*



> As Justin Trudeau continues to fail the Canadian People by putting the rights of ISIS terrorists above the safety of law-abiding Canadian Citizens, Ontario Premier Doug Ford is taking action.
> 
> While Ford is limited in what he can do because dealing with terrorists is mostly a federal matter, the Ontario government still has some authority, and Ford is using that authority to stand up for what is right.
> 
> ...


More at the link.

https://www.spencerfernando.com/201...tough-crackdown-on-returning-isis-terrorists/


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Death threats and attack on office over Ford government’s labour reforms



> On Tuesday, Ontario’s minister of labour, Laurie Scott, introduced a bill to reform Ontario’s labour laws.
> 
> That night her constituency office in Kawartha Lakes was broken into, windows smashed, the office itself ransacked and vandalized.
> 
> ...


I can hardly wait for the litany of excuses from the left as to why this isn't their fault...


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

FeXL said:


> Death threats and attack on office over Ford government’s labour reforms
> 
> 
> 
> I can hardly wait for the litany of excuses from the left as to why this isn't their fault...


Hey, they were enraged...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Further from the perpetually offended left...

Faux outrage over Ford’s Francophone moves



> So Francophone voters, people that almost always vote Liberal, are being ginned up by columnists and politicians that are Liberal in order to attack Doug Ford and his PC government.
> 
> Some are even trying to extend this outrage to Andrew Scheer and the federal Conservatives.
> 
> ...


More:



> *This is all a faux outrage based on false information and driven by people that are either too ignorant to know what is really happening or who are driving an agenda.*


M'bold.

Don't rule out basic stupidity...


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

_First GM's Oshawa plant, now three Maple Leaf Food plants in Ontario. Doug Ford's "Open for Business" slogan may need to be revisited..._

*Maple Leaf Foods closing three plants, 1500 jobs lost*

On Monday, November 26, Maple Leaf Foods announced it would be closing three poultry facilities in Ontario employing hundreds of members of both United Food and Commercial Workers (UFCW) Local 175 and Local 1006A.

By 2021, the St. Marys plant, employing 485 Local 175 members will close. And by 2022, the Brampton plant, with its 324 Local 175 members, will shut down alongside the Toronto plant which employs 680 Local 1006A members.

“Even though it’s a few years off, getting news a month before Christmas that your job is disappearing will naturally cause people some concern,” said Tim Deelstra, Engagement & Media Relations Strategist for Local 175, in an interview with Rankandfile.ca

Maple Leaf Foods said they’re consolidating their operations by opening a new facility in London, Ontario by the spring of 2021. The facility, that should employ about 1,450 workers, and costing roughly $660 million, will be funded with help from both the federal and the provincial government. The federal government is giving Maple Leaf Foods $20 million, and Ontario is giving $34.5 million for the new plant.

(Rank&File)​


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

CubaMark said:


> _First GM's Oshawa plant, now three Maple Leaf Food plants in Ontario. Doug Ford's "Open for Business" slogan may need to be revisited..._
> 
> *Maple Leaf Foods closing three plants, 1500 jobs lost*
> 
> ...


Do the math here folks. Add up the three plant employee loses in St. Mary's, Brampton and Toronto and it totals 1,489 employees.

The new plant in London will employ 1,450 employees for a net loss of 39 jobs.

What's the big deal? If they rehire all employees from those other locations in the new location, this is a nothing story and raising alarm by either the media or the unions involved is disingenuous.

I myself moved half a dozen times to retain my job over my 40 year career.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

SINC said:


> The new plant in London will employ 1,450 employees for a net loss of 39 jobs.


I jes' luvs it when Progs furnish their own rebuttal.

Not to mention the jobs the construction of the new plant will create...


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

CubaMark said:


> _First GM's Oshawa plant, now three Maple Leaf Food plants in Ontario. Doug Ford's "Open for Business" slogan may need to be revisited..._


Seriously, did you read this article and see it as a major negative news story the Ontario economy?


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Macfury said:


> Seriously, did you read this article and see it as a major negative news story the Ontario economy?


He read the headline, thought he had a way to smear the right, full stop. Et voila...


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Qualifications lowered for OPP commissioner job, allowing Ford family friend to apply*










When the top job with the Ontario Provincial Police was posted in October, Ron Taverner couldn’t apply, because his rank was too low.

Two days later, the job requirements were changed — paving the way for the Ford family friend to apply.

He got the job.

The job postings were obtained exclusively by iPolitics late Monday evening.

The first job description was posted to the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police website in October and — according to a search of the document’s web history — was last modified on Oct. 22.

That posting required all applicants to hold, at minimum, the rank of deputy chief or assistant commissioner.

The candidate should have a “track record and demonstrated ability to provide executive leadership in a complex policing organization at the rank of Deputy Police Chief or higher, or Assistant Commissioner or higher in a major police service,” read the posting.

Taverner, a superintendent with the Toronto Police Service, sits two ranks below that threshold.
(iPolitics)​


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I guess they couldn't find any qualified applicants.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Yeah. And?

They've been dropping qualifications for Marines, firefighters, cops, etc., for years to get more women involved. Where was your hue & cry then?



CubaMark said:


> Qualifications lowered for OPP commissioner job, allowing Ford family friend to apply


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

FeXL said:


> Yeah. And?
> 
> They've been dropping qualifications for Marines, firefighters, cops, etc., for years to get more women involved. Where was your hue & cry then?


Roarrrrrrrr! He was mad as hell then, too! (But very quiet about it.)


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Social assistance costs ballooned under Liberals: AG



> Ontario’s social assistance costs ballooned under the previous Liberal government but the system failed to help recipients become self-reliant or consistently ensure that only those eligible received support, the province’s auditor general said Wednesday.
> 
> In a sweeping annual report, Bonnie Lysyk said the number of Ontario Works cases has increased by almost 25 per cent since 2009, hiking costs up from $1.9 billion to nearly $3 billion.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

I Want A New Country



> It’s only news when it happens to Ontario.
> _[blahblahblahblahblahblahblahlblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahlblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahlblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahlblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahlblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahlblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahlblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahlblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahlblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahlblah]
> 
> Alberta, Saskatchewan and Newfoundland have also called for changes to the formula.
> ...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Ford government's free speech policy for schools a good first step



> Call it another promise made, promise kept by the Ford government. Although it’s sad the promise ever had to be made.
> 
> I’m talking about the pledge to have every university and college across the province adopt a free speech policy by Jan. 1, 2019.
> 
> “Colleges and universities should be places where students exchange different ideas and opinions in open and respectful debate,” Ontario Premier Doug Ford said in August when he gave the schools the deadline.


More:



> _*Safe shouldn’t mean safe from ideas that you disagree with.*_


Emphasis mine...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Brand new Ontario political party proposes ban on homosexuality, gender liquidity and abor... _*wait a minute*_...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

I don't think Ford stands a chance on this particular issue. Not without wholesale changes.

Standing Up For Blue Collar Jobs



> I’ve been listening to politicians write off manufacturing and other blue collar jobs in favour of the service industry and “creative class” for far too long.
> 
> “We want to bring manufacturing back to Ontario,” the premier tells me.​


Comments explain it.


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

FeXL said:


> Ford government's free speech policy for schools a good first step
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bravo!


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Did Chief Saunders just sell Toronto... 



> • Dec 2018 • FLIP •
> 
> “To think we can arrest our way out of this is a falsehood.​
> • Jan 2019 • FLOP •
> ...


Like a fish pulled onto the bank of a pond...


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

FeXL said:


> Did Chief Saunders just sell Toronto...
> 
> 
> 
> Like a fish pulled onto the bank of a pond...


The Toronto police are already a disgrace. Their failure to find obvious clues in the Sherman case are only the tip of the iceberg. They send large details of police to issue parking tickets, while they seem to have lost all interest in matters of theft, for example. I helped staff at Shoppers Drug Mart to recover a massive stash of goods grabbed by a shoplifter--however, they had no interest in calling the police because they had no way to hold a violent perp for hours waiting for a patrol car to arrive. The LCBO no longer bothers calling the cops over liquor theft. I know someone who was able to trace their stolen MacBook to the address of the person who stole it--but the cops said they were unwilling to recover it.

Having more of these hardy souls to dispatch to parking detail won't solve what's wrong with the police force.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Macfury said:


> The Toronto police are already a disgrace. Their failure to find obvious clues in the Sherman case are only the tip of the iceberg. They send large details of police to issue parking tickets, while they seem to have lost all interest in matters of theft, for example. I helped staff at Shoppers Drug Mart to recover a massive stash of goods grabbed by a shoplifter--however, they had no interest in calling the police because they had no way to hold a violent perp for hours waiting for a patrol car to arrive. The LCBO no longer bothers calling the cops over liquor theft. I know someone who was able to trace their stolen MacBook to the address of the person who stole it--but the cops said they were unwilling to recover it.
> 
> Having more of these hardy souls to dispatch to parking detail won't solve what's wrong with the police force.


Unbelievable. Come May, time to exit the $h!thole, stage West...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

*~Becauth ith's 2015!*

Further from the compassionate, intellectual, _progressive thinking_ left...

Liberal MP says 'Let's whack' Ontario Premier Doug Ford



> Justin Trudeau’s Liberals have a funny way of practising the positive politics they preach.
> 
> *The day after the Prime Minister told a group of supporters at a fundraiser his party would avoid a negative tone in the coming election, one of his MPs called for Ontario’s premier to be whacked.*


Bold mine.

Well, that didn't take long...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

When it comes to education, we keep paying more but getting less



> During the last 15 years, spending on education has more than doubled from $13.4 billion in 2004 — the first budget of the McGuinty government to $29.1 billion in 2018, the last Liberal budget (all figures adjusted to 2018 dollars).


And what did Ontarians get for their education buck?



> The most recent standardized test results from the Education Quality and Accountability Office show that just 49% of Grade 6 students could meet the provincial standard in math. That was down from 61% meeting the standard in 2010 and 57% in 2004.
> 
> Yet in that time spending has more than doubled and the number of teachers increased — all while school enrollment has fallen.


Must be some of that new Prog math... 

Hey, Freddie, can you explain that to me? The education budget was more than doubled, the numbers of teachers was increased, student enrolment dropped and the number of kids passing the Grade 6 provincial Math standard went down by 12%.

Only in a union...


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

FeXL said:


> When it comes to education, we keep paying more but getting less
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They need mor-r-r-r-r-r-r-e money.


----------



## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

FeXL said:


> And what did Ontarians get for their education buck?


Last week my daughter missed a day of school sick. When she got back she didn't understand the math lesson as they were ahead. She asked the teacher and the teacher's response was "We covered this yesterday and I am not going to reteach the lesson. You will have to look into this on your own."

Life in Ontario!


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

smashedbanana said:


> Last week my daughter missed a day of school sick. When she got back she didn't understand the math lesson as they were ahead. She asked the teacher and the teacher's response was "We covered this yesterday and I am not going to reteach the lesson. You will have to look into this on your own."
> 
> Life in Ontario!


And it is not like teachers are under paid. Best place to teach in the world is Ontario. My sister moved to the States when she got married and makes a fraction of what teachers make here, nowhere near the benefits. That is why people get upset when teachers complain, it is not that their job is not respected it is that they have it pretty good here and we cannot keep paying out more and more while we go deeper and deeper in debt.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

In some ways I can _almost_ understand the teacher's response. _Almost._ On the other hand, the teacher definitely handled it in a pi$$-poor fashion.

"Jane, can you get yesterday's notes & homework from one of your classmates, go over them tonite and if there are any questions I'd be happy to address them tomorrow before class, during lunch or after school."


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

wonderings said:


> That is why people get upset when teachers complain, it is not that their job is not respected it is that they have it pretty good here and we cannot keep paying out more and more while we go deeper and deeper in debt.


With worse results!


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

My kid is in university and some of his fellow students are being excoriated for failing to use recognizable sentence structure in their assignments. They're being offered an onpine guide on basic sentence structure to help them cope.


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

Macfury said:


> My kid is in university and some of his fellow students are being excoriated for failing to use recognizable sentence structure in their assignments. They're being offered an onpine guide on basic sentence structure to help them cope.


They should just follow their hearts, it is the modern way.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

wonderings said:


> They should just follow their hearts, it is the modern way.


<snort>

Hey, budgets balance themselves. Doesn't English self-correct?

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

MF?

This Is Not Your Grandma’s Humane Society



> Unfortunate move by the Doug Ford government. This is how Conservatives lose governments.
> 
> Ontario Farmer – Tue Feb 5 2019
> Byline: Ian Cumming
> ...


Links' bold.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Well, we wouldn't want to interfere...

...with your Charter Rights to blow away dem foolz who ridin' dirty inna hood...



> Toronto police have scrapped a plan to acquire "*ShotSpotter," a controversial piece of technology* that picks up the sound of gunfire and reports it to frontline officers.
> 
> A spokesperson for Attorney General Caroline Mulroney expressed concerns that the technology *may violate residents' Charter rights* pertaining to unreasonable search and seizure.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Well, don't know much about Ottawa light rail but in the 2 mins I took to read about it, it looks like a typical bureaucratic TGF.

How much of this is federal, provincial & municipal?

Riding Mass Transit Is like Inviting 30 Quebec Lobbyists Into Your Car



> A brown paper bag just doesn’t buy what it used to.
> 
> Ottawa’s $2.1-billion light rail system, supposed to be finished by the end of this month, will not only miss its third completion deadline but is experiencing issues far more serious than city officials have led the public to believe, according to internal reports obtained by CBC.
> 
> ...


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

Looks like Doug Forward is going to *hopefully* push forward and end the monopoly The Beer Store has. 

https://globalnews.ca/news/5321606/ford-government-beer-store-contract/

Really hope they hold firm on this and end it. Of course the heads of The Beer Store immediately give a doom and gloom story how about 7000 jobs would be lost... though not sure how they would if their stores are so great and offer the best service they should be ok no?


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

wonderings said:


> Looks like Doug Forward is going to *hopefully* push forward and end the monopoly The Beer Store has.
> 
> https://globalnews.ca/news/5321606/ford-government-beer-store-contract/
> 
> Really hope they hold firm on this and end it. Of course the heads of The Beer Store immediately give a doom and gloom story how about 7000 jobs would be lost... though not sure how they would if their stores are so great and offer the best service they should be ok no?


The Beer Store monopoly was nuts to begin with. A lot of people think this is run by government like the LCBO instead of a way for major beer companies to crowd out their smaller competition.

Why do they automatically assume that 7,000 jobs are going to be lost? Are their internal reports that unflattering?


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

Macfury said:


> The Beer Store monopoly was nuts to begin with. A lot of people think this is run by government like the LCBO instead of a way for major beer companies to crowd out their smaller competition.
> 
> Why do they automatically assume that 7,000 jobs are going to be lost? Are their internal reports that unflattering?


Scare tactics. They used this before when this idea came up. The Beer Store president said this would force beer prices to rise, cost jobs, sky fall and the world would come to an end. 

Nothing should change on their end accept they no longer have majority control. It has loosened over the years, some grocery stores are allowed to sell beer. Not sure why it is not wide open, guess we the children of Ontario are not responsible enough for freedom.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

wonderings said:


> Scare tactics. They used this before when this idea came up. The Beer Store president said this would force beer prices to rise, cost jobs, sky fall and the world would come to an end.
> 
> Nothing should change on their end accept they no longer have majority control. It has loosened over the years, some grocery stores are allowed to sell beer. Not sure why it is not wide open, guess we the children of Ontario are not responsible enough for freedom.


If the jobs are the result of a bizarre near-monopoly that smacks of 1950s cronyism, then it's time for them to disappear. Amazing that this arrangement was ever negotiated in the first place. Could you imagine Coke and Pepsi running a soft drink outlet monopoly?

Anyone recall the bizarre ads about 20 years ago featuring Norm and Cliff from _Cheers_ talking up the Beer Store's social responsibility?


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Further proof that Twitter is a honeytrap from clueless politicians...*


(@DaveSmithPtbo)


(@DaleBurnay)


(@MimiProbably)









(@ESL_fairy)


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

The Toronto District School Board (@TDSB) is not at all pleased with the bull**** right-wing Toronto Sun and MPs in the Doug Fraud government making false allegations without, y'know, _fact-checking_. Oh, look! It's that social media genius, Dave Smith again!


*Statement from TDSB Chair Robin Pilkey*

It is one thing for the Toronto Sun to play around with the facts and engage in “gotcha” journalism. It is another thing for the government to do so — without fact checking first. This is yet another example of the government unfairly targeting the TDSB and Toronto.

We would have been happy to have shared this information with the Minister or her staff had they reached out to us prior to issuing a statement based on a single media report. We’re confident that we could have addressed any of her concerns had that happened.

As all facts are known, it is clear that the real story before us is not a cancelled cell phone RFP. The real story continues to be that many, many school boards, including the TDSB, are now facing record budget cuts due to Ministry funding reductions. The TDSB’s budget shortfall is $67.8 million – of which $42.1 million is due to the Ministry’s funding reductions. Other school boards face budget shortfalls that are proportional to that of the TDSB’s.
(TDSB)​


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

CubaMark said:


> *Further proof that Twitter is a honeytrap from clueless politicians...*


Very easy to screw these campaigns up, especially with the efforts of paid tweeters.


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

CubaMark said:


> *Further proof that Twitter is a honeytrap from clueless politicians...*
> 
> 
> (@DaveSmithPtbo)
> ...



Don't think it has anything to do with proximity of a Beer Story monopoly or an LCBO. It is about our freedoms as Canadians... adult Canadians to freely buy something the government thinks is far to dangerous for us to handle without the hand of the government controlling it. I do not buy a lot of beer, more of a wine and scotch guy, but would love to be able to go to my corner short stop and pick up beer when the desire comes across. I do not want a the beer store monopoly and the fear they are trying to bring about telling us how prices will sky rocket because of competition and all the jobs that will be lost. It is obviously a failed business if it cannot survive without a government contract ensuring they have zero competition. 

Give me freedom.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

wonderings said:


> Don't think it has anything to do with proximity of a Beer Story monopoly or an LCBO. It is about our freedoms as Canadians... adult Canadians to freely buy something the government thinks is far to dangerous for us to handle without the hand of the government controlling it. I do not buy a lot of beer, more of a wine and scotch guy, but would love to be able to go to my corner short stop and pick up beer when the desire comes across. I do not want a the beer store monopoly and the fear they are trying to bring about telling us how prices will sky rocket because of competition and all the jobs that will be lost. It is obviously a failed business if it cannot survive without a government contract ensuring they have zero competition.
> 
> Give me freedom.


Also tired of the tweeters who responded with comments about "food banks." You could say the same thing about green energy boondoggles or electric vehicle rebates--why wasn't the money used to help "the children." My question: why was the money taken from me in the first place?


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

Macfury said:


> Also tired of the tweeters who responded with comments about "food banks." You could say the same thing about green energy boondoggles or electric vehicle rebates--why wasn't the money used to help "the children." My question: why was the money taken from me in the first place?


If they are going to bring up food banks and the poor they should also show proof of how much they give yearly to the needy. 

Why do they never seem upset about the billions of wasted money that could have helped all sorts of people in our province and country?


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

wonderings said:


> If they are going to bring up food banks and the poor they should also show proof of how much they give yearly to the needy.
> 
> Why do they never seem upset about the billions of wasted money that could have helped all sorts of people in our province and country?


I would want to see zero dollars helping any industry. That should leave a tidy sum to spend on the truly needy. Trouble is, just when you think the left would be on board with that, they demand a trillion dollars for windmills and solar farms.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Hello, Bigot.

You are not in a position to be judging anybody else's _fact-checking..._



CubaMark said:


> ...making false allegations without, y'know, _fact-checking_...


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

FeXL said:


> Hello, Bigot.
> 
> You are not in a position to be judging anybody else's _fact-checking..._


Whatever you say, Herr Germanwings..... :lmao:


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Hello, Bigot.

As I've noted many times in the past, any time you want to compare records, bring it. You've whole threads that are FOS.



CubaMark said:


> Whatever you say...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

*Becauth ith's 2015!*

Caution: Link to MotherCorpse inside.

That’ll work.



> “Psst! Wanna by a box of straws? Getcher sixty piece picnic cutlery here!”
> 
> Ottawa to ban single-use plastics as early as 2021: government source. Plastic straws, drink stirrers, plates, cutlery, plastic bags all on the list. PM, environment minister to announce plan in separate locations on Monday. https://t.co/Y3fLJNKEnm
> 
> ...


From the comments:



> Quebec “cheese” in a plastic wrapper
> Ontario milk in a plastic bag (still a thang?)
> Motor oil
> Toothpaste
> ...


Yep.

Not to mention meat from the grocery store under plastic in their little styrofoam trays, plastic bags for fruit & veg, etc., etc., etc.

And, of course, both Climate Barbie & Justa Turd are in on this. Wonder how many gallons of kerosene were burned in the planes getting to "separate locations".


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Anybody know what this is all about? Seems rather... regressive....


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Hello, Bigot.

Why bother waiting for the facts of the story to get out? I'm sure some of your Prog buddies have already fabricated a great narrative. Just use that. After all, it was good enough for Clock Girl & Catlicker Boyz...



CubaMark said:


> Anybody know what this is all about? Seems rather... regressive....


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Not a very interesting story to me, CM — why not Google it?


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Doug Ford Revokes Controversial Appointments A Day After Announcing Them
Two of the four appointees won't get six-figure posts in the U.S. after all.*

Ontario Premier Doug Ford has revoked the appointments of two people to lucrative foreign posts a day after announcing them, following reports that they had ties to his chief of staff.

Ford announced four agents-general appointments, which come with salaries between $165,000 and $185,000, shortly after a massive cabinet shuffle Thursday intended as a reset after a rocky first year in power. The roles aim to drum up business in the province.

Taylor Shields, an assistant vice-president of marketing for Chubb Insurance, was appointed to a post in London and Tyler Albrecht, a senior analyst at Optimize Capital Markets, was being sent to New York City.

But the premier backtracked less than 24 hours later.

The Globe and Mail reported that sources say Shields is related to the wife of Dean French, Ford’s chief of staff, and that Albrecht, 26, is friends with one of French’s sons. A 2014 tweet from French says one of his sons and Albrecht are former lacrosse teammates.

New Democrat Taras Natyshak said Ford was trying to “slip first-class gravy train tickets to friends and family.”

(HuffPo)​


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

> New Democrat Taras Natyshak said Ford was trying to “slip first-class gravy train tickets to friends and family.”


Did you ever stop to think that Ford cancelled the appointments immediately when he learned of the ties to his employee?


In doing so he did the right thing?

Why do lefties immediately assume the worst?


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

SINC said:


> Why do lefties immediately assume the worst?


Projection...


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

SINC said:


> Did you ever stop to think that Ford cancelled the appointments immediately when he learned of the ties to his employee?
> 
> In doing so he did the right thing?
> 
> Why do lefties immediately assume the worst?


If that were the case, one would expect Ford's PR flunkies to get on that message immediately and push the narrative, but instead:

_"The premier’s office would not give a reason for revoking Albrecht and Shields’ appointments. Requests for comment from Albrecht and Shields were not immediately returned."_​


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

CubaMark said:


> If that were the case, one would expect Ford's PR flunkies to get on that message immediately and push the narrative, but instead:
> 
> _"The premier’s office would not give a reason for revoking Albrecht and Shields’ appointments. Requests for comment from Albrecht and Shields were not immediately returned."_​


Maybe they are not pushing it because they are not trying to vilify anyone. Maybe the people in question are good for the job they were original appointed but the optics of it look bad so they opted to go a different route. Damned if you do and damned if you don't I guess.

I don't think we need explanations for job postings and reasons for removing someone. If it was something nefarious I am sure the people slighted would come out and say something.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

wonderings said:


> I don't think we need explanations for job postings and reasons for removing someone.


.....really?

I mean......_ really?_

That's not a position I recall hearing before from the political right and its crusade against the wasting of taxpayer dollars.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Hello, Bigot.

Then you haven't been paying attention.

Frankly, if every level of gov't in this country suddenly grabbed a brain & cut 20% of their work force, I wouldn't need a reason, a look at their faces, their address or anything else.

Gone is good enough.



CubaMark said:


> That's not a position I recall hearing before from the political right and its crusade against the wasting of taxpayer dollars.


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

CubaMark said:


> .....really?
> 
> I mean......_ really?_
> 
> That's not a position I recall hearing before from the political right and its crusade against the wasting of taxpayer dollars.


We vote people in to run the government. Should there be press releases for every public servant that is fired or moved to a new position? Really not sure what the outrage is here, these people had their appointment refused. If they had been given the job and this came out there would be a roar in protest. So again, damned if you do and damned if you don't. As far as I know they were removed from the job before any media attention was on it, I could be wrong on that.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Once again, CM has set his laser-focus on every ripple inside conservative governments. Socialism is crashing and burning globally, but wait a second, Doug Ford properly rescinded an appointment--now I've got a wild hair up my butt!!!


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

wonderings said:


> Really not sure what the outrage is here, these people had their appointment refused.


That's the whole point. There isn't one. And, because of that tiny, annoying, niggling fact, outrage needs be manufactured.

I'm reminded of this quote:



> “Puritanism. The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.” — H.L. Mencken


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

wonderings said:


> We vote people in to run the government. Should there be press releases for every public servant that is fired or moved to a new position? Really not sure what the outrage is here, these people had their appointment refused. If they had been given the job and this came out there would be a roar in protest. So again, damned if you do and damned if you don't. As far as I know they were removed from the job before any media attention was on it, I could be wrong on that.


Terminology is important here.

1/ These aren't mid-level civil servant positions: "The agents-general positions are ones that have not existed in Ontario’s government since the 1990s." (from the HuffPo article linked above)

2/ "...these people had their appointment refused." No - they were appointed and then rescinded by Ford. I do not know if there are repercussions for this, in terms of people being appointed to a position and then have it taken away... do they have now the legal recourse to sue for wrongful dismissal? Lost wages? What are the repercussions of Ford's handing out of posh and well-compensed patronage positions?

3/ Given (2) that these positions were 'rescinded', where's the roar in protest? None, because those who would do the roaring know that they were ill-advised appointments in the first place.


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

CubaMark said:


> Terminology is important here.
> 
> 1/ These aren't mid-level civil servant positions: "The agents-general positions are ones that have not existed in Ontario’s government since the 1990s." (from the HuffPo article linked above)
> 
> ...



1 - ok, not sure why that matters. 

2 - And the shouts that would happen if they continued on with their job and then the media found out their connections. No one would be worried about their jobs then, it is a lose lose situation here. There should be no repercussions for handing out posh positions if they serve a purpose and have value return to them. I do not know the fine details of it so cannot comment on if these positions would have done that. If not then it would have been a poor choice and not one I would have backed initially and am still glad the jobs have been rescinded. 

3 - Could be ill advised, I have no idea. In terms of poor discussion making and Government waste this is a drop in the bucket. No government will be perfect, I think we choose the lesser of the evils based on our political, ethical and moral views. Are you or anyone really expecting perfection? This is no billion dollar power plant or some Orange helicopters.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

wonderings said:


> No government will be perfect, I think we choose the lesser of the evils based on our political, ethical and moral views. Are you or anyone really expecting perfection? This is no billion dollar power plant or some Orange helicopters.


CM was silent during the Liberal spending apocalypse in Ontario. As long as billions were pissed away on "green" nutjob projects any other spending was fine.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Remember back, you were a kid...



> ...and students were attacking teachers on a daily basis?
> 
> *YEAH... ME NEITHER...*
> 
> ...


Links' bold.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Canada Allows Jihadi Who Stabbed Three Soldiers to Roam Free Despite 'Significant Threat' to the Public



> Good news: the top court in Canada’s most populous province, the Ontario Review Board, struck a strong blow against “Islamophobia” Wednesday when it declared, according to the Toronto Sun, that a young Muslim named Ayanle Hassan Ali was “now eligible for extensive forays into the community, despite remaining a ‘significant threat’ to the public.”
> 
> What could possibly go wrong? Only venomous “Islamophobes” could possibly object, right? After all, all Ayanle Hassan Ali did was stab three Canadian soldiers and explain that Allah told him to do it. How could anyone deny this fine young man the right to roam freely around Toronto, Hamilton, and other Ontario cities?


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

"Intelligence led," huh?



> ...as opposed to that *"throwing darts at random mugshots"* thing they've been using?
> 
> - TORONTO - A recent influx of cash from all three levels of government will be used to fund an intelligence-led, 11-week policing project aimed at curbing gang activity in Toronto, the force’s chief said Wednesday.
> 
> More *SJW argle-bargle from the guy* who says *we can't arrest our way out of this thing.*


Emphasis from the link.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Nice money if you can get it...

Carlton St. shelter to cost city more than three times its worth



> The lease deal city officials quietly signed for another shelter in already-beleaguered Cabbagetown is three times higher than the actual value of the property, show figures obtained by the _Toronto Sun_.
> 
> The 10-year lease — signed in August without the knowledge of the very south Cabbagetown residents who’d been pleading for some respite from the influx of shelter and safe injection services to their neighbourhood — will cost $6-million to rent the 12,754-square-foot building at 233 Carlton St., just west of Parliament.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

FeXL said:


> Nice money if you can get it...
> 
> Carlton St. shelter to cost city more than three times its worth





> Cabbagetown residents who’d been pleading for some respite from the influx of shelter and safe injection services to their neighbourhood


That neighbourhood is solidly NDP. Why should they complain about helping people the way they preach?


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

macfury said:


> that neighbourhood is solidly ndp. Why should they complain about helping people the way they preach?


Nimby.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Ford's 'throw-away-the-key' talk the right approach on gun crime



> To help stop the endless shooting violence, Premier Doug Ford says the justice system needs to “throw away” the key on those who are caught.
> 
> After weeks of staying out of the politics of the federal election, Ford jumped right back in Thursday by pulling no punches.
> 
> ...


M'bold.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

FeXL said:


> Ford's 'throw-away-the-key' talk the right approach on gun crime
> 
> 
> > To help stop the endless shooting violence, Premier Doug Ford says the justice system needs to “throw away” the key on those who are caught.
> ...


I do hate it when I agree with Ford, but this time he is right. When it comes to violent crime the line needs to be very clear and the cost of crossing it high.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Congratulations, MF! Your tax $$ at work.

$180M flushed down the drain on poverty strategy?



> If there was ever an example of absolute insanity at City Hall, it was the handling by the mayor’s executive committee last week of the money pit called the Poverty Reduction Strategy.
> 
> Without any clear idea of how $181 million was spent during the past four years on the strategy’s 17 recommendations — and whether it was money well spent — Tory and his committee of lemmings unanimously approved another four-year plan.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

FeXL said:


> Congratulations, MF! Your tax $$ at work.
> 
> $180M flushed down the drain on poverty strategy?


Tory is a squishy dope who bends like a willow in the wind. His only qualification is that he's better than the overtly socialist candidates who want to unseat him.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

City's $520K Indigenous Affairs office a 'small but mighty' team



> Indigenous Affairs office manager Selina Young told a meeting of the Aboriginal Affairs Advisory Committee Friday that her “small but mighty team” of five are busy revitalizing teachings, learnings and circles to ensure Indigenous employees and practices “have a voice” in the Toronto public service.


So, what have they actually accomplished?



> When they started talking about kayak-sharing (similar to the money-losing Bike Share) down at the Waterfront, I’d had enough of the demands by the hard-done-by.


:yikes:


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

FeXL said:


> City's $520K Indigenous Affairs office a 'small but mighty' team
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Levy is right. Toronto roads are in deplorable shape. I'm losing rims and tires at a ridiculous rate thanks to unaddressed potholes.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Fight with teachers gets real



> Starting Tuesday morning, teachers at the elementary and high school level in the public school system will be taking job action to protest the pace of contract talks and changes brought in by the Ford government.
> 
> If your kids are in the Catholic or French school system then this doesn’t mean much to you yet, but it could. For those with kids in the public school system, this job action will include “information pickets” before and after school so that the teachers’ unions can share what they claim are the facts.
> 
> *Here’s the main fact parents need to know, regardless of what the teachers’ unions say, this work action and the overall fight with the province isn’t about the kids — it’s all about money. A salary boost for individual teachers and the number of dues paying members for the union.*


Bold mine.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

'There's just no money coming in': Cannabis sector bracing for wave of insolvencies in 2020



> Oversupply, declining prices, and a slow rollout of stores in Ontario has led to consecutive quarters of weak revenue for many licensed producers


Who knew?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

FeXL said:


> 'There's just no money coming in': Cannabis sector bracing for wave of insolvencies in 2020
> 
> 
> 
> Who knew?


It was all about Trudeau making the contry safe for his favourite addiction.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Macfury said:


> It was all about Trudeau making the contry safe for his favourite addiction.


Addiction? I thought being an asshole was hereditary...


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

I just want to know how often they...



> ...drug test those Nuclear Control Room Operators...
> 
> _ “There is *no danger to the public, there was no radiological event* and what I can tell you is that we are working with the province to investigate what happened,” said OPG spokesperson O’Neal Kelly.
> 
> ...


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

FeXL said:


> I just want to know how often they...


I receive that nutty alert. Worse, it disappears when you log in to your phone, so you can no longer read either the original message or the one cancelling the alert.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Macfury said:


> I receive that nutty alert. Worse, it disappears when you log in to your phone, so you can no longer read either the original message or the one cancelling the alert.


Good enough for gov't work...


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Class war, media manipulation 101:*

*Mysterious Group Uses ‘Made-Up Name’ and Fake Mom to Attack Teachers in Canada’s Biggest Newspapers*

Forget fake news — Doug Ford’s big money supporters are now using fake moms too.

Over the weekend, three of Canada’s biggest newspapers ran full-page ads from a mysterious group accusing Ontario teachers of using children as “pawns.”

Ontario Premier Doug Ford has previously used the exact same misleading language to attack a province-wide student walk-out protesting Ford’s cuts to education.

The ads are paid for by a mystery group calling itself “Vaughan Working Families,” although the group lists no contact information, has no website and there appears to be no evidence the shadowy parents’ group exists apart from its expensive ads.










The name “Working Families” is already associated with an existing group created by the labour movement. That group has been sharply critical of Doug Ford’s plans to eliminate thousands of teacher jobs.

In a statement Sunday, the original Working Families group expressed concern that the name of the new group is sowing confusion.

Cartwright says he thinks “Vaughan Working Families” is “obviously a made-up name created by conservative millionaires.”

“Who else could get tens of thousands of dollars to place full-page ads in The Star and The Globe?”

Cartwright noted Education Minister Stephen Lecce is also the MPP for Vaughan.

Last month, a man portrayed by the Toronto Sun as an angry father from the same riding was revealed to be a wealthy conservative activist with ties to Lecce.

Lecce’s office did not respond to multiple requests from PressProgress to clarify if he has ever communicated with “Vaughan Working Families.”

In a statement to Global News, Lecce denied having any knowledge of the ads and, although they claim to represent families in his own riding, the education minister stated he is “not familiar with the Vaughan Working Families group.”

Cartwright said the Toronto and York Region Labour Council is offering a reward for information on who is really behind “Vaughan Working Families.”

“We’re offering a $20 Tim Horton’s gift card to anybody who can determine exactly who the conservative millionaires are that are paying for these ads.”

(PressProgress)​


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

So what's your problem with it, CM?


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Macfury said:


> So what's your problem with it, CM?


That the ads aren't paid for by Progs...


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

FeXL said:


> That the ads aren't paid for by Progs...


Remember CM getting bent out of shape because foreigners were secretly fronting the bill for anti-oil campaigns in Alberta? Neither do I... But this? This is an outrage, sir!


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

<snort>

:lmao::lmao::lmao:


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Further:

Teachers and their NDP allies lash out against ad



> The message from teachers’ unions and their allies is clear: Don’t question them, don’t push back on their messaging or you will be attacked.
> 
> It’s something I’ve been putting up with for months now every time I write a column that is anything but in full praise of the teachers’ unions.
> 
> ...


BTW, I figgered out why The Bigot is incensed: He wants a $50 Timmie's card...


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Beefed up security turns City Hall into gated fortress



> Nothing says “safe city” like the guarded wall of electronic security inside City Hall.
> 
> At a time of record shootings, Mayor John Tory and city councillors insist Toronto is a safe city. Well, with the implementation of airport-style security screening at City Hall, it’s certainly now safer for them.
> 
> ...


More:



> Of course, the mayor and city bureaucrats don’t have to submit to it. Do you see the irony? While there are many violent criminals in Toronto, it’s good citizens who are subjected to body searches.


Further:



> So much for no carding in Toronto.
> 
> Cops are not allowed to ask that of those hanging around the rail tracks trying to block the Go Train. If they asked such questions of the thugs who shot up Nathan Phillips Square on Raptors Championship parade day in June, people would be screaming about racial profiling.
> 
> But go in for parade permit, you are considered armed until a screening shows otherwise.


Nice!


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Hmmm...

Indian politics front and centre in Ontario as legislature debates law declaring Sikh genocide



> The emotionally fraught politics of India are poised to again engulf the Ontario legislature, as opposing Indo-Canadian factions pressure lawmakers over a contentious private member’s bill commemorating a 36-year-old massacre.
> 
> The legislation to create a “Sikh genocide week,” introduced by the MPP brother of federal New Democratic Party Leader Jagmeet Singh, marks riots in 1984 that saw thousands of Sikhs killed in New Delhi and elsewhere in India.


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