# Intermediate size Lumix



## MacDoc

My little Lumix showed it's limitations on zoom and light gathering during this last trip but don't want to lug the full sized Canon either 

Looking at intermediate with bigger lens but can still get into a "large" pocket.

This looks like the correct size and features but open to suggestions



















reviewed here

Panasonic Lumix DMC-TZ20 review - Digital Camera reviews - TrustedReviews




> QUEENSTOWN, NZ: Panasonic has launched 24 Lumix compact point-and-shoot cameras, with new release models ranging from the newly-created S Series up to the high end, travel zoom TZ range.
> Interestingly, considering the general focus consumers have on megapixels, Panasonic is turning the tables on this preconception, with the number of megapixels in its new cameras actually decreasing as you go up the range. These megapixels are replaced with better zoom capabilities, wider angle lenses and prosumer features, such as GPS and a touchscreen with shutter activation.
> 
> The key notes from the launch here are:
> 
> -The new TZ20, the sixth generation in the Travel Zoom range. Promoted as the ideal travel camera, this model features 16x optical zoom, a 3-inch Smart touchscreen, wide-angle Leica lens, 14.1-megapixel MOS sensor, advanced GPS and Full HD video recording. This model comes in black for RRP $599. Also in the range is the TZ18, which is RRP $499. These models will be available in April 2011.
> 
> -New into Lumix renowned Tough Series is the FT3. Now waterproof down to 12 metres, this model is also shockproof to 2 metres, freezeproof to -10 Celsius, dustproof and, for the first time, sandproof. Panasonic Lumix marketing manager Richard Philips said that whilst Panasonic wasn’t the first with tough cameras, they are now leading the industry in terms of durable features. This model has a 12.1-megapixel sensor, 4.6x zoom, Full HD video and a 2.7-inch screen. This model comes in silver, orange, red and blue for RRP $599. This camera is due for release in March 2011.
> 
> -In the mid-range of the Lumix range is the FX78, which is marketed as the all-round compact camera for the enthusiast looking for a companion camera to their DSLR or mirrorless model. This camera has a 12.1-megapixel sensor, 5x optical zoom, Full HD video recording, 24-millimetre ultra wide angle shooting and a Smart touchscreen to control the camera. This unit also includes a 3D shooting mode. This unit comes in Silver for RRP $499. It will be released in April 2011.


thoughts - comments?

right size too.


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## MacDoc

I'd consider last year's TZ10. If anyone has experience with it - would like to hear.


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## eMacMan

I tested a couple of Lumix's last before my last camera purchase.

Some minor dislikes, but overall very nice cameras. Big comment is forget the pixel count. These cameras like all the pocket cameras I tried, capture no more detail at maximum pixel count than they do at 2 or 3 MP. Thus 10 or 12 MP images viewed at 100% always looked like fine detail was missing especially away from the centre of the image. 

That said should still be quite capable of delivering excellent 8x10 prints. Can even get good 11x14s but not from every image.

To get a rough idea of battery life divide their spec numbers by two or even three and you should be in the ball park.

I eventually chose a Kodak Z915 (10 to 1 zoom). Overall I preferred the physical design of the Kodak, the control layout, and the very short shutter lag. The image stabilization is rock solid and does not depend on using high ISOs. 

Negative side is that Kodaks certainly require more colour and density tweaking than the Lumix, Nikons and Canons that I tested. For me the Kodak's lack of a burst mode is also a draw back but one I can live with as I have a second camera that has a supurb burst arrangement.


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## MacDoc

Don't do prints but concur on the pixel count and Pannie seems to recognize that according to the article.

Ended up finding a TZ5 for $190 cash with some extras. half the price of the current model even before tax










thanks for input


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## SINC

Good find. I got the Lumix LX3 on clearance for half price and so far am loving this thing. Fits in my shirt pocket and nicely compliments my Nikon SLR for quick shots that are surprisingly good. The Leica glass is superb on these things.

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review


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## Joker Eh

MacDoc, I can't find any of those models here in North America on any site. The link to the review was in UK, is that camera sold here?


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## boukman2

*you missed out*

too bad you were in such a hurry to buy! oh well...
launched today:


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## Kleles

I recently purchased the Lumix ZS8, similar to the ZS10 bought by MacDoc, but without the GPS feature and a CCD chip instead of CMOS. There are video differences also, but I don't shoot movies, and the ZS8 allows more pictures per battery.

So far, the camera is living up to my expectations, having downsized from a Lumix FZ20, bought 6 years ago. Yes, advertising for this Lumix has been corralled by the 'pixel count' race, and the final images are nowhere near the theoretical limit of a 14 MP sensor. The images are still impressive on my MBP and a TV. The wide angle (24 mm equiv.) to optical zoom (384 mm equiv.) is great. I've also played with the "Intelligent Zoom" feature, extending the zoom a little further. So far I'm very pleased with the camera and the pictures it produces. It's pocketable and light (but doesn't feel like a plastic wafer). 

I bought the camera in anticipation of a European trip later this year. I like to become thoroughly familiar with any camera that I use. There are many features yet to explore.

(PS. Dose anyone want to buy some 35 mm Nikon bodies and lenses?)


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## egremont

Kleles:

(PS. Dose anyone want to buy some 35 mm Nikon bodies and lenses?)

When you decide to sell Nikon lenses that can be used with a Digital SLR Nikon please post information and prices in the classifieds.


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## eMacMan

Note that both cameras seem to be a bit under 12:1 optical zooms. Never saw any advantage to letting the camera crop versus doing it later in PhotoShop although newer cameras tend to handle "digital zooming" a lot better than two or three generations back. Not sure how they will do on light gathering. The Kodak has time exposures out to 16 seconds. Obviously tripod is needed when you get out there. Check out multiple reviews to get a good feel on the Image stabilization as that is extremely critical as you get into 400mm equivalent lenses. If you have to haul around a tripod then you lose some of the advantages of a smaller camera.

Something else I noted during my testing is that all the cameras I tried had a "Panoramic" mode and even on a tripod none of them could deliver a clean panoramic image. I do a few panoramas and still just do a multiple image sweep and manually stitch them in PhotoShop Elements.


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## Max

Panasonic's image stabilization is very good. Agreed that panoramic modes in many cameras are not always handled well. One of the reasons why I picked the successor model to Sinc's LX3, the LX5, is that it begins at 24mm and is pretty nice and wide from the get-go. Great for landscape and architectural / interior shooting - as he noted, the Leica glass is impressive and it stays pretty crisp even as you go out to the edges. 

I'm a big fan of small cameras with larger sensors but I'm not impressed by superzooms - if you feel you need to shoot something at 12x or 21x, perhaps you're a birder and you need to spend money on a more capable, full-sized DSLR or perhaps a smaller mirrorless camera with a large CMOS sensor aboard. And I just don't trust the contrived virtual zoom that many camera makers so avidly market. Go with true optical zooms and you're good.

MacDoc, you've made your choice - hope it works out for you. Let us know how you find it once you've had some time to work with it 'out in the field.'


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## Kleles

MacDoc, my comments above about the ZS8 that I bought are in reference to the ZS10 (or TZ20) first mentioned, not the TZ5 you finally bought.

I think some people get carried away with expectations about small cameras. Nothing can replace a large image sensor, superior lenses and good quality electro-mechanical design. Anything smaller, necessitates compromise in capabilities and picture quality. 

The love of photography, though, is about the act of taking, processing, and viewing images. The tools we use, even though they have an impact on the entire process, are just tools.


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## eMacMan

It's good to remember just how small the sensor on all point and shoot cameras is. It is typically less than 4.5x6mm. The infamous Kodak disk cameras produced 6x8mm negatives and the 4x5 inch prints were both fuzzy and grainy. Digital point and shoots come in with roughly half the imaging area of a Kodak disk camera yet can consistently produce good to excellent 8x10 prints. That 8x10 is equivalent to enlarging a 35mm negative to 40x50 inches. Given all that I would say the sensors and optics on most of these cameras is absolutely superb. 

For many users, including myself, they do what needs to be done. I am aware of their limitations but find the lower cost and better portability easily offset the quality limitations. I wonder how many DSLR users can honestly say their camera is within their reach about 90% of the time.

That said if I was still using my cameras to make my living I would want a good DSLR to be part of the stable especially where larger prints, faster lenses and/or manual focusing ability are required. These cameras should typically be capable of producing excellent 16x20 inch prints which is comparable to what a good 35mm film camera can deliver.


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## iMatt

Kleles said:


> I think some people get carried away with expectations about small cameras. Nothing can replace a large image sensor, superior lenses and good quality electro-mechanical design. Anything smaller, necessitates compromise in capabilities and picture quality.


I agree to a point, but you might be surprised by how far the compacts in the "serious" category have come (LX5, S95, XZ-1). At max aperture (mostly around f2.0, f1.8 for the XZ-1), these things are really not terribly far behind an entry-level SLR with an f3.5 kit lens. Certainly close enough for most people most of the time, and way, way smaller.

Not to mention how even the cheapies perform in optimal lighting conditions and base ISO. In that case, you'd have to work hard to find a modern camera that doesn't produce good results. (Shutter lag, however, is usually a huge weakness in the cheap models.)

There are of course always compromises. Going the other way, to get the absolute best image quality and low-light capability, and maximum flexibility, you need to add size, weight, and oodles of cash.

Congrats to Sinc on his LX3. A modern classic, if one can use that word for a digital camera released way back in 2008. Excellent camera up to ISO 400, and surprisingly good ergonomics for something so small and feature-rich.


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## MacDoc

Dumb question time. I have 8 x 20 Zeiss binocs I adore. Made in West Germany so you know how long I have had them. Amazing image.

If I wanted the same image into my camera what would I need?
Despite saying 14x the camera is no where near the resolve or size that the binocs give at 8x.

What gives?


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## Kleles

Here's my stab at an answer. The "times" indication on a camera is the relationship between the focal length of the lens at it's widest angle of acceptance and it's narrowest. The camera's focal length is related to the size of the image receptor. A common means of comparison is to provide equivalent focal lengths relative to 35 mm film, which produced frames of 24 X 36 mm. 

So, although 8 X magnification in binoculars indicates that one is apparently 8 times closer to the observed object, 8X magnification in a camera only means that the narrower focal length is 8 X the widest and is not related to apparent distance of the observed object.

Does this make any sense?


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## MacDoc

Nope :baby: but thanks for the effort.

•••

Finally got a chance to test the new one in lower light and distance for some detail on the zoom
10 m away in neighbours yard for the yellow blossoms - do like how the maple leaves and the water droplets are visible.

Certainly a cut above it's predecessor but hard to get it to focus on the correct portion -
Took a couple of misfires on the yellow.










7 m away on top of tree in my yard - max zoom - cloudy










Could not get the orioles to sit still enough


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## Kleles

I am also learning about the use of the many features on my ZS8, especially the different features of the iA and P settings. I find that not being able to manually focus is frustrating, but setting the focusing area to the smallest helps. Here's a closeup of the buds that preceded the young leaves on the maple, taken outside my house.


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## Niteshooter

MacDoc said:


> I'd consider last year's TZ10. If anyone has experience with it - would like to hear.


Kind of late but... I looked at the pix from the TZ10 and went for a TZ7 out of B&H in NYC. What stopped me on the 10 was IQ even though it has a CMOS sensor the pix from the CCD in the TZ7 look better. I was a bit torn about the added reach with the 16x zoom vs the 12x on the TZ7 and also the full HD vs 720p but in the end I'm very happy with the results.

Posting some examples up in the other thread.


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## MacDoc

For anyone looking for decent pocket shooter - Amazon today $89









Panasonic Lumix DMC-FH20K 14.1 MP Digital Camera with 8x Optical Image Stabilized Zoom and 2.7-Inch LCD (Black)

Amazon.com Gold Box: New Deals. Every Day.

•••Great shot Kleles - very appealing colour. So exotic from an apparently mundane source.


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## MacDoc

Sun helps the detail


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## MacDoc

Very pleased with the camera so far tho still exploring the functions.

Also see there is no substitute for big lens and ccv.

Borrowing a big Lumix and  is it good but a bit to lug about.

This with the intermediate. Damn that is one big mountain considering that's the coastal range in the foreground......and Ranier is an active volcano!!










The Big Pannie tho was impressive

low light at dawn from the hotel room ( nice view thanks to smart partner )










at full zoom from the Space Needle far across the bay - detail stayed top notch










and in flight copter below us.










Big one will be ideal for the Inside Passage views from the ship and the intermediate is pocketable tho without the case sometimes the setting dial gets moved - caused some missed shots yesterday.

Still getting used to both but the Pannies are pretty ergonomic in my view .


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## Kleles

These are great shots, MacDoc.
I just returned from Europe and I'm sorting through my 1000+ shots. I am very pleased with the performance of my ZS8, and it was easy to carry around. The term they use is "travel zoom" and it's apt! I'll post a few pics soon.


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## Kleles

Here are two examples of ZS8 pics demonstrating the wide angle and telescopic capabilities. In the first picture, taken across the deck of the Aida cruise ship, the church, Catedral de Mallorca, can be seen near the shore toward the right of the frame. The second picture, at 20X telephoto is the cathedral. The original pictures were about 5.2MB, and these are about 470KB.


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