# Canadian iPhone 4 UNLOCKED!?!?!



## KMPhotos (Jun 17, 2008)

This just appeared on the Canadian Apple online store.



> Buy your iPhone from Apple commitment-free.
> It works with the carrier of your choice.
> Buy your iPhone from the Apple Online Store and choose your own GSM carrier. You can change carriers at any time.


So does this mean it is unlocked? We'll have to wait and see. I'm sure there will be a lot of news on this later today.


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## KMPhotos (Jun 17, 2008)

It's the same in the UK. If you buy the iPhone from Apple and pay the full price it's unlocked. If you buy it from a wireless provider with the subsidized price it'll be locked for the duration of your contract.
I'm guessing if you sign a contract and then pay to get out of it early you'll probably be able to get the phone unlocked as well.


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

Their site's getting hammered... I can't even load it.

Is there a price?

EDIT: ah, k the Canadian site loaded... holy cow, $549 for the 8GB 3GS?? Man, the iPhone 4 is going to cost a fortune.


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## KMPhotos (Jun 17, 2008)

They'll probably cost the same as last years 3GS if you wanted to buy it outright from Apple or any of the other retailers. 
$699 for 16GB
$799 for 32GB


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## andreww (Nov 20, 2002)

Phones should be unlocked, it's bs to sell them any other way. You sign up for three years, not a lifetime.


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## whatiwant (Feb 21, 2008)

We've always been able to by unsubsidized handsets directly from apple. They are locked to the carrier you choose. 

Don't get me wrong, I hope they're unlocked too, but don't hold your breath or get too excited.

EDIT: looks like it is unlocked. WOW

*It works internationally.
Because this iPhone is commitment-free, you can purchase a micro-SIM or SIM card and service from a local carrier at your destination. Or check with your home carrier regarding international roaming charges.*


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## sheamus (May 20, 2010)

I bet a lot of these end up south of the border! I doubt the Canadian store ship outside of Canada, but still pretty easy to find a way around that.

I was planning on getting a subsidized phone. I am assuming that I will be able to unlock the phone with a code anyway?

~S


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## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

sheamus said:


> I bet a lot of these end up south of the border! I doubt the Canadian store ship outside of Canada, but still pretty easy to find a way around that.
> 
> I was planning on getting a subsidized phone. I am assuming that I will be able to unlock the phone with a code anyway?
> 
> ~S


Subsidized iPhones are not unlockable by any code or other method, unless you jailbreak it. There is no official unlock.


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## sheamus (May 20, 2010)

What if I jailbreak it, unlock it, then unjailbreak it? Does the restore to Vanilla restore the carrier lock?
~S


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## iheartmac (Jan 5, 2006)

Will the fact that the iPhone 4 has a micro sim complicate things? This means I won't be able to pop the regular sim out of my 3Gs and use it in the new phone, right?


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## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

iheartmac said:


> Will the fact that the iPhone 4 has a micro sim complicate things? This means I won't be able to pop the regular sim out of my 3Gs and use it in the new phone, right?


You should be able to purchase a new sim which will be a combination of standard and micro. You have that new SIM activated and replace your old SIM. There may be promotional giveaways or offers but the typical price to purchase a SIM is about $40 with a small fee for activation (at least that's what it was the last time I need to purchase a new SIM).


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## g.c.87 (Sep 20, 2007)

I just saw that too... having the option of buying unlocked is fantastic!

Also... did anyone else notice that with the 8GB 3GS it says available June 24th. That probably means nothing... but it is interesting right?


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## sheamus (May 20, 2010)

Macified said:


> the typical price to purchase a SIM is about $40


You can also get Sim's off craigslist, ebay, and Kijiji from free to $10. $40 is a scam for a $0.03 item. Carriers in other countries just give them away.

~S


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

This is great news. You can also get the Locked versions from Rogers/Telus/Bell whenever they launch, but it's great to hear that we'll have the OPTION at least of buying an unlocked one. 

I'm hoping that we'll get the same pricing as the US on the unlocked models ($599/699), not the $699/799 we got on the 3GS, but I kinda doubt it...


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## linzter (Jun 7, 2010)

fyrefly said:


> I'm hoping that we'll get the same pricing as the US on the unlocked models ($599/699), not the $699/799 we got on the 3GS, but I kinda doubt it...


Seems unfair to charge $100 more for a phone just because its unlocked, its not like it costs them anymore! That being said, you're likely right...


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## sheamus (May 20, 2010)

Not sure if this should be it's own thread?

I have a questions. I understand the benefit of an unlocked phone. We have already established that you can unlock a phone, so lets ignore that (at least for the sake of this discussion).

So my question is why would anyone want an unsubsidized phone? Is it because of the contract? If you pay $300 for phone, and $400 ECF, then you have still payed less than what the unlocked cost will be! Plus if you don't sign up for a contract, most carriers make their evening start at 9pm, and remove other benefits, like Starbucks Wifi, Telus' PERKS, etc. Atleast to me, having my evenings free calling start at 5 or 6pm versus 9pm is a huge deal, and if I have done the math correctly here, there is nothing to lose by signing up for a contract.

What am I missing here?


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## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

g.c.87 said:


> I just saw that too... having the option of buying unlocked is fantastic!
> 
> Also... did anyone else notice that with the 8GB 3GS it says available June 24th. That probably means nothing... but it is interesting right?


No reason they can't start selling the 8GB 3Gs on June 24th. Doesn't mean the 4G will be available then. It just allows those customers who aren't planning to get the 4G to move ahead with a purchase.


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## whatiwant (Feb 21, 2008)

fyrefly said:


> This is great news. You can also get the Locked versions from Rogers/Telus/Bell whenever they launch, but it's great to hear that we'll have the OPTION at least of buying an unlocked one.
> 
> I'm hoping that we'll get the same pricing as the US on the unlocked models ($599/699), not the $699/799 we got on the 3GS, but I kinda doubt it...


$599/$699 are just unsubsidized prices though. I do not believe those are for unlocked models.

From faq "iPhone is configured to work only with wireless service provided by AT&T." 

It's my guess that the 16GB model will be at least $750+ for the unlocked version. This is based on the fact that in the UK (on O2) the 32GB 3GS was: £549 + unlock fee of £15 which is around $870 CAD

I'm really curious how it will pan out though.


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

jawknee said:


> $599/$699 are just unsubsidized prices though. I do not believe those are for unlocked models.


From FAQ on Apple Canada store:



> *Can I use my iPhone outside my home country?*
> Yes. iPhone is enabled to work on carrier networks using GSM around the world. Because the iPhone sold by the Apple Online Store is commitment-free, you can purchase a SIM or micro-SIM card and service from a local carrier at your destination. Or check with your home carrier regarding international roaming charges.


Doesn't that mean unlocked?


Also, I don't understand why the subsidized models are still locked to a carrier... we are locked into a contract anyways, so why should we be stuck with the same carrier if we choose to end the contract early and pay the huge cancelation fees?

And what about when the contract ends? Why should we be locked to a certain carrier?


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## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

sheamus said:


> Not sure if this should be it's own thread?
> 
> I have a questions. I understand the benefit of an unlocked phone. We have already established that you can unlock a phone, so lets ignore that (at least for the sake of this discussion).
> 
> ...


I used to think that signing a contract wasn't a big deal and generally agree. I am in the process of moving to the US which wasn't even a thought on the horizon one year ago. Things change.

The phone you will get even when you sign a contract is locked to the carrier. When your contract ends you either stay with your carrier or your phone is useless (can't be moved to another carrier even if they are hardware compatible). In my case, I need an unlocked phone so that I can use AT&T while in the states and Rogers when back in Canada. When I move, the two iPhones I have will become expensive iPod Touches since they are locked to Rogers and can't currently be unlocked. I will be buying an unlocked iPhone 4G. Carriers should be required to unlock your phone (legally) after your 3 year commitment is met. They chose 3 years as the payback period for the subsidy.


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## sheamus (May 20, 2010)

I believe in the US the are required to unlock after term. 

Are you reluctant to jailbreak your phone to unlock it?

iPhone is the only GSM phone I have heard of that you have to go to such lengths to unlock it. My Blackberry's and Treos, it was just a matter of buying an unlock code form a website for $20. I wonder if the fact that they are more open to being unlocked will mean that they will put less effort into making the thing un-unlockable.

~S


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## whatiwant (Feb 21, 2008)

okcomputer said:


> From FAQ on Apple Canada store:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Right. I'm referring to the US prices of 599/699 which is for an unsubsidized version, not unlocked. Sorry for the confusion.


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## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

sheamus said:


> I believe in the US the are required to unlock after term.
> 
> Are you reluctant to jailbreak your phone to unlock it?
> 
> ...


The current iPhone firmware can be jailbroken but I've yet to find an unlock that works. I have found jailbreaking to cause instability in the past but will do it if necessary.


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## ericlewis91 (Jul 12, 2007)

$549 for 8GB
$649 for 16GB
$749 for 32GB

based on the US

$499 for 8GB
$599 for 16GB
$699 for 32GB


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## g.c.87 (Sep 20, 2007)

ericlewis91 said:


> $549 for 8GB
> $649 for 16GB
> $749 for 32GB
> 
> ...


I was thinking the same thing. I wonder why they wouldn't make the prices the same, since the US and Canadian currencies are back and forth around par though. Oh well... $50 more doesn't really matter. Given the option now though... I'm thinking about the unlocked version, unless there is someway to have my phone unlocked after. I just hate the fact that I have to jailbreak to unlock my phone if I'm travelling.


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## thadley (Jul 8, 2008)

I think because the currencies flit back and forth is why they won't make it the same. 

Also I can see this being a huge draw. Having an unlocked iPhone you can easily update with current firmware? Love it.


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## ericlewis91 (Jul 12, 2007)

Canadians can use iPhones on

Rogers
Bell
Telus
Virgin

Soon to be Solo/Kodoo


Makes sense to have just one iPhone model for all carriers instead of separate ones.


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## sheamus (May 20, 2010)

ericlewis91 said:


> Canadians can use iPhones on
> 
> Rogers
> Bell
> ...


I suspect it will be one phone per carrier _plus_ the unlocked version. That is what most GSM phone manufacturers do.

If you are right, and all the carriers are selling/subsidizing the same unlocked iPhone, that would be amazing.


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## whatiwant (Feb 21, 2008)

ericlewis91 said:


> $549 for 8GB
> $649 for 16GB
> $749 for 32GB
> 
> ...


Given that unsubsidized iPhone 3GSes are 699(16GB) and 799(32GB) right now in Canada, I wouldn't expect an unlocked one at a price point lower than that for the newest *bestest* thing.


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## ntba (Jun 15, 2010)

Hi, really new here and a current Iphone 3GS owner on Fido, I find it terrible what they do here in Canada and I promised myself that I was going to buy the next iPhone unlocked. I was going to go as far as getting it from the UK from a friend and have it shipped here until I saw this thread, but barring everything else my main concern is that if I purchase a LEGALLY unlocked iphone 4 will it stay unlocked after i swap the SIM card (cut to micro sim size of course!) What I mean to say is, once I swap out my old SIM from my 3gs to the 4 I'm assuming i'll have to activate the phone in iTunes with apple's activation servers, once they see I'm on fido will they upload some sort of Fido specific lock onto the phone thus rendering my phone unlocked iphone useless? I hope this isn't what will happen because I'd love to be able to swap SIM cards easily when traveling to the states or europe?


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## KMPhotos (Jun 17, 2008)

I wonder if current Rogers users will get to keep their 6GB plans if they buy the unlocked phone? I wonder if Rogers will say it's only an option if you sign a new 3 year contract. 
So many more questions now.


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## whatiwant (Feb 21, 2008)

unlocked models in the UK are £499 for 16GB and £599 for 32GB.

so $761ish and $913ish in CAD if the pricing model is similar. Also notable is that the price has increased by £50 from the price last year.


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## whatiwant (Feb 21, 2008)

KMPhotos said:


> I wonder if current Rogers users will get to keep their 6GB plans if they buy the unlocked phone? I wonder if Rogers will say it's only an option if you sign a new 3 year contract.
> So many more questions now.


That shouldn't affect anything. I bought an unsubsidized unit last year, and I don't think Rogers is even aware of it. Unlocked units will be bought directly from Apple, not Rogers.


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## KMPhotos (Jun 17, 2008)

Macified said:


> The phone you will get even when you sign a contract is locked to the carrier. When your contract ends you either stay with your carrier or your phone is useless (can't be moved to another carrier even if they are hardware compatible).


Not 100% true. I quick search online and you'll find that Apple can unlock your phone for you. Its been doing this in countires that at one time had locked phones but now offer unlocked versions. All the user had to do was be at the end of their contract, or have paid to get out of their contract. 
Apple’s Official iPhone 3G Unlock


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## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

iheartmac said:


> Will the fact that the iPhone 4 has a micro sim complicate things? This means I won't be able to pop the regular sim out of my 3Gs and use it in the new phone, right?


You can cut regular sims down to the size.
YouTube - Convert iPhone Sim into a Micro-Sim for Apple iPad


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## KMPhotos (Jun 17, 2008)

What's interesting in all this, is that the Canadian delay for the iPhone 4 is probably due to it being sold unlocked at the Apple. Apple probably doesn't want Americans flocking to Canada to pick up unlocked phones on launch day. So delay it a month, get lots of people to but the locked American version, then release an unlocked version in Canada. 
Granted the iPhone 4 only works with AT&T anyway, but I'm sure there are more than a few Americans that will wait now, and buy the unlocked phone in Canada.


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## milhaus (Jun 1, 2004)

jawknee said:


> unlocked models in the UK are £499 for 16GB and £599 for 32GB.
> 
> so $761ish and $913ish in CAD if the pricing model is similar. Also notable is that the price has increased by £50 from the price last year.


They will be substantially less than this. This price already includes UK VAT, and stuff is more expensive in the UK anyways. Look at the just released Mac Mini: $699US, £649UK, which would translate to over $950US. $750CDN for 32GB sounds about right.


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## whatiwant (Feb 21, 2008)

milhaus said:


> They will be substantially less than this. This price already includes UK VAT, and stuff is more expensive in the UK anyways. Look at the just released Mac Mini: $699US, £649UK, which would translate to over $950US. $750CDN for 32GB sounds about right.


Like I said, the current prices for unsubsidized units are 699 & 799. I don't expect them to be much different, tho I hope you're right. I'd love to be wrong.


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## jimbotelecom (May 29, 2009)

Just heard the great news. I'm looking forward to an unlocked 4G. I only wish the U.S. offered SIMs for sale like in Europe. 

Freedom is a wonderful thing.


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## kkapoor (Jan 17, 2006)

Finally! I'm done with stupid 3 year contracts with Robbers or any other carrier. I travel to Europe a lot and get raped on roaming charges just to have the privilege of using my own handset. Thank you Apple for seeing the light! Freedom and competition is great!


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

There's really no cost difference... the only benefit is having it factory unlocked.


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## kkapoor (Jan 17, 2006)

kloan said:


> There's really no cost difference... the only benefit is having it factory unlocked.


There is a huge cost difference if you are a frequent traveler. It is much cheaper to buy a local sim card and pay as you go. Have a look at roaming charges from Canadian providers. This also fosters competition amongst carriers in Canada since all major carriers carry the iPhone here unlike in the US where you are stuck with ATT. No longer will you have to be locked into a 3 year contract with any provider, if they want you as a client they are going to have to truly compete (unless they collude which is technically illegal).

This is all well and dandy as long as you are willing to pay the full price for the phone. A small price for freedom in my opinion.


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

The cost difference is nil because you can sign up for the contract and cancel after 30 days and end up spending around the same. $199 iPhone + $400 ETF + 1 month bill = approx $700

So like I said, the only benefit is having it factory unlocked and not having to worry about doing that yourself. That, and avoiding the hassle of signing up and canceling. Otherwise, the cost is virtually the same.


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## lightbulb (Oct 24, 2005)

kloan said:


> So like I said, the only benefit is having it factory unlocked and not having to worry about doing that yourself. That, and avoiding the hassle of signing up and canceling. Otherwise, the cost is virtually the same.


It's not only a cost issue; the benefit is having an unlocked phone that can be updated and supported by Apple, with full warranty. Unlocking voids your warranty and software updates are often problematic. Reasons why factory unlocked phones from Apple Australia have a marketplace via eBay.


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## wilecoyote (May 25, 2008)

kkapoor said:


> There is a huge cost difference if you are a frequent traveler. It is much cheaper to buy a local sim card and pay as you go.
> .
> .
> .


I'm curious - when you travel to Europe can you buy a SIM card that includes data - or is it just voice? If you can include data, is it very expensive?


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## kkapoor (Jan 17, 2006)

kloan said:


> The cost difference is nil because you can sign up for the contract and cancel after 30 days and end up spending around the same. $199 iPhone + $400 ETF + 1 month bill = approx $700
> 
> So like I said, the only benefit is having it factory unlocked and not having to worry about doing that yourself. That, and avoiding the hassle of signing up and canceling. Otherwise, the cost is virtually the same.


There might not be a hardware cost difference but there are other issues I alluded to which can make a significant impact on the cost side of operating the phone. How is that not clear?


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

kkapoor said:


> There might not be a hardware cost difference but there are other issues I alluded to which can make a significant impact on the cost side of operating the phone. How is that not clear?


Seems like you're still interpreting my comments to suit your own attitude on the subject. Best if we discontinue answering each other.



lightbulb said:


> It's not only a cost issue; the benefit is having an unlocked phone that can be updated and supported by Apple, with full warranty. Unlocking voids your warranty and software updates are often problematic. Reasons why factory unlocked phones from Apple Australia have a marketplace via eBay.


Surely there are convenience factors when comparing factory unlocked to subsidized, no doubt about it. I'd rather buy the factory unlocked one outright as well. I was merely commenting on the price difference, or lack thereof.

Meanwhile, unlocking doesn't void the warranty, despite popular belief. I've had 3 iPhones serviced/replaced after unlocking. A simple restore hides all traces. Unless you mess with the baseband, but I've yet to see a Genius find evidence of this.

Anyway, obviously buying the unlocked version is a better solution to buying out a contract.


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## kkapoor (Jan 17, 2006)

wilecoyote said:


> I'm curious - when you travel to Europe can you buy a SIM card that includes data - or is it just voice? If you can include data, is it very expensive?


Nope, in Europe they have pay as you go plans that include data as well. Look at the websites for at a couple of UK providers. ie. Vodafone or O2.

I'll give you an example for Vodafone.

20 Pounds (about $30) gets you:

600 minutes
3000 txts
500MB data


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## kkapoor (Jan 17, 2006)

kloan said:


> Seems like you're still interpreting my comments to suit your own attitude on the subject. Best if we discontinue answering each other.


I guess that works both ways. No harm no foul.


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

I acknowledged from the get-go that the benefit is having it factory unlocked. That covers all aspects of convenience; ability to use different SIMs from various countries/carriers, not having to worry about software updates, etc, etc.

Tangible cost difference /= convenience cost difference.


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## kkapoor (Jan 17, 2006)

kloan said:


> I acknowledged from the get-go that the benefit is having it factory unlocked. That covers all aspects of convenience; ability to use different SIMs from various countries/carriers, not having to worry about software updates, etc, etc.
> 
> Tangible cost difference /= convenience cost difference.


I understand what you're saying however, I feel your interpretation of cost is very narrow.


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

kkapoor said:


> I understand what you're saying however, I feel your interpretation of cost is *different than mine*.


Agreed.


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## Derrick (Dec 22, 2004)

US Apple Store already showing 'Ships: By July 2nd':

iPhone 3GS & iPhone 4 - Apple Store (U.S.)


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## wilecoyote (May 25, 2008)

kkapoor said:


> Nope, in Europe they have pay as you go plans that include data as well. Look at the websites for at a couple of UK providers. ie. Vodafone or O2.
> 
> I'll give you an example for Vodafone.
> 
> ...


Wow! That's pretty good.


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## MacGYVER (Apr 15, 2005)

Wow, this is the best news I have come across all day! I currently have a life style where I live 6 months in Canada and the other in another country and also frequently travel to Europe. In Europe it is very common to just purchase cheap Pay As You Go Sim Cards with data for your cellular phone. 

WOW! This is going to mean that I can actually own an iPhone 4 and not have to worry about being tied into a carrier in Canada, and actually take it with me when I leave the other 6 months and also travel to Europe. This is a win win for me, and I can't wait to plunk down the cash.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

jawknee said:


> That shouldn't affect anything. I bought an unsubsidized unit last year, and I don't think Rogers is even aware of it. Unlocked units will be bought directly from Apple, not Rogers.


But 6GB plans were given to people who signed on for 3 years. No contract no 6GB plan.

And Rogers knows which phone you are using when you place your call. What you think they wouldn't you are using their network.


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## whatiwant (Feb 21, 2008)

Joker Eh said:


> But 6GB plans were given to people who signed on for 3 years. No contract no 6GB plan.
> 
> And Rogers knows which phone you are using when you place your call. What you think they wouldn't you are using their network.


sure. but buying a new phone independent of them, without subsidy... how does that have ANY effect on your current plan? It does not.

Also, I don't think that they have some 007 alarm on your account so that they can terminate your 6GB data plan if you somehow end up with a new phone. Otherwise they would've discontinued mine, on my 4x3G replacements, my unsubsidized 3GS + 1 replacement there.


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## Electric Sheep (Feb 23, 2006)

32GB iPhone 4 $299
1 month cheapest Robbers plan $50
Activation charge: $35
ECF $400
Taxes: $101.92
Spending an hour on the phone with some dude in india trying to cancel: $100 (your time)


Walking into an Apple Store and buying an unlocked iPhone without all that crap: Priceless


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## jimbotelecom (May 29, 2009)

Joker Eh said:


> But 6GB plans were given to people who signed on for 3 years. No contract no 6GB plan.
> 
> And Rogers knows which phone you are using when you place your call. What you think they wouldn't you are using their network.


I've been through this before when Palm released their first TREO I ordered an unlocked version from the U.S. and stuck my Rogers SIM card in and used it for 2 years before I broke the screen. Rogers has no problem with you paying your bill month to month regardless of the device you are using. I frequently take advantage of my 6 gig data that expires in 2011 to put the SIM into an unlocked Rocket stick...no problem at all. I just ordered an unlocked MiFi unit to do the same thing. I need to get an adaptor to deal with the different sized SIMs.

There is no problem going unlocked...just increasing freedom to do what we want with the services we pay for.

If anything I think the new entrants will be thinking about selling SIM's at a discount. So we'll probably see Mobilicity, Wind and Public Mobile coming up with an offering once they get their networks groomed and stable.

I'm looking forward to 6 gigs for $20!!! It can be done.


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## whatiwant (Feb 21, 2008)

jimbotelecom said:


> If anything I think the new entrants will be thinking about selling SIM's at a discount. So we'll probably see Mobilicity, Wind and Public Mobile coming up with an offering once they get their networks groomed and stable.
> 
> I'm looking forward to 6 gigs for $20!!! It can be done.


Except for the fact that apple's hardware is incompatible with Wind, Mobilicity & Public.
Maybe in the future there'll be another iPhone that works on AWS.


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## jimbotelecom (May 29, 2009)

jawknee said:


> Except for the fact that apple's hardware is incompatible with Wind, Mobilicity & Public.
> Maybe in the future there'll be another iPhone that works on AWS.


Interesting because I saw the president at one of these companies on an iphone.


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## whatiwant (Feb 21, 2008)

jimbotelecom said:


> Interesting because I saw the president at one of these companies on an iphone.


heh. EDGE fallback? That would be really funny if their cell account was with rogbelusido


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## sheamus (May 20, 2010)

Does anyone know if Apple will do the official unlocking on a phone once the contract is expired? Someone posted earlier in this thread that they will do that in US.


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## andreww (Nov 20, 2002)

My take on all this is slightly more skeptical. Lets say the value of the phone is $800 with taxes. Rogers will "give you that phone for roughly $200. Of course the are not giving you anything, they have simply built roughly $167/year in to your three year contract to cover the difference. Now as there are currently no really viable options for running an iphone to its full potential via pay as you go, you will need to get a contract with someone. As far as I know, Rogers or anyone else, won't give you a deal on your contract simply because you bought your phone outright from Apple, So you will still be paying that $167 a year for a phone that you didn't get.


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## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

I agree with andreww with one exception. If you travel out of Canada a lot, buying an unlocked phone means you can get a cheap SIM in Europe, US, wherever, and not have to pay for roaming charges or buy "Travel Packs". The phone will pay for itself in roaming savings.

If you don't travel out of country very often (e.g. twice per year), then it simply doesn't make sense to not get a subsidized phone and get into a contract. Even the ECF to get out of a contract is not more than the cost of the unlocked phone in the first place.


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## whatiwant (Feb 21, 2008)

hayesk said:


> I agree with andreww with one exception. If you travel out of Canada a lot, buying an unlocked phone means you can get a cheap SIM in Europe, US, wherever, and not have to pay for roaming charges or buy "Travel Packs". The phone will pay for itself in roaming savings.
> 
> If you don't travel out of country very often (e.g. twice per year), then it simply doesn't make sense to not get a subsidized phone and get into a contract. Even the ECF to get out of a contract is not more than the cost of the unlocked phone in the first place.


+1

International Data "Travel Pack" = $225 for 75MB. (This is their cost-effective solution...)

If you don't plan on leaving Canada EVER, then get an iPhone on contract.


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

andreww said:


> Now as there are currently no really viable options for running an iphone to its full potential via pay as you go, you will need to get a contract with someone.


You don't need a contract. You can get a monthly plan without a contract. In fact, you can get pretty much any plan they offer without a contract, except there may be a few features that you won't get (like bonus minutes, etc.).

There are some data plans that you can't get without signing a contract, but there are definitely options for those wanting to go month to month.


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## ldphoto (Jul 9, 2009)

andreww said:


> My take on all this is slightly more skeptical. Lets say the value of the phone is $800 with taxes. Rogers will "give you that phone for roughly $200. Of course the are not giving you anything, they have simply built roughly $167/year in to your three year contract to cover the difference. Now as there are currently no really viable options for running an iphone to its full potential via pay as you go, you will need to get a contract with someone. As far as I know, Rogers or anyone else, won't give you a deal on your contract simply because you bought your phone outright from Apple, So you will still be paying that $167 a year for a phone that you didn't get.


For those like me that still have a contract with a few years left and a good plan to boot, the unlocked version makes sense. I would get a minimal subsidy to upgrade, and the unlocked version will have a much greater resale value when the iPhone 5 is released.


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

ldphoto said:


> The unlocked version will have a much greater resale value when the iPhone 5 is released.


I wonder what the development pipeline will be like? They got 3 models out of a similar form factor (though obviously the 3G and 3GS were different from the original). I'd wager that there will be at least 2 models with this form factor.


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## MacGYVER (Apr 15, 2005)

andreww said:


> My take on all this is slightly more skeptical. Lets say the value of the phone is $800 with taxes. Rogers will "give you that phone for roughly $200. Of course the are not giving you anything, they have simply built roughly $167/year in to your three year contract to cover the difference. Now as there are currently no really viable options for running an iphone to its full potential via pay as you go, you will need to get a contract with someone. As far as I know, Rogers or anyone else, won't give you a deal on your contract simply because you bought your phone outright from Apple, So you will still be paying that $167 a year for a phone that you didn't get.


You make some good points 

However, the target audience are those people who travel a lot, or live 50/50 in Canada and elsewhere or those who don't want to be locked into a contract. 

Canadians are seen as people who travel and move around all the time, perhaps this was a huge request from customers to Apple or perhaps Apple knows this through research. Or, we have the most jailbroken iPhones per capita for any country out there  

I used to leave my cell phone behind in the past when I went to Europe or anywhere on holiday's. Had to buy a cheap cellphone to use over there to cut down on roaming charges and any other bs charge that the carriers here wanted to charge. You can buy most name brand cellphones dirt cheap and get very good sim card packages for cheap as well.

For me, even using the iPhone 4 in Canada for short term, I can still access Wifi pretty much for free where ever I am, so I'm not too concerned over not having the best data package and I won't be tied into a 3yr contract. 

Now if Rogers, Bell and Telus were smart, they would look to Europe and elsewhere on how they can make millions in revenue by providing cheap or reasonable sim card packages for the unlocked market, why? Guess where they're not making money right now? The thousands of tourists who enter Canada each year with their cell phones who can't purchase cheap or sim card packages to use their networks. Europe makes money off of me each time I go there, here the 3 largest carriers are only interested in locked in 3yr terms for the local public, or Pay As You Go but not the same as outside of Canada. There is a ton of money to be made for these cell carriers here in Canada if they open up to the idea of unlocked sim card options for Pay As You Go with data ( like in Europe for example). I would guess also, that even Canadians would jump on this as well. 

For anyone who doesn't travel outside of Canada, or perhaps does the 2 week vacation once a year, maybe an unlocked iPhone 4 is not for you and would make more sense to be in a 3yr contract. 

Will be interesting to see what the numbers are for sales of unlocked iPhone 4 within Canada.


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## ldphoto (Jul 9, 2009)

MacGYVER said:


> Guess where they're not making money right now? The thousands of tourists who enter Canada each year with their cell phones who can't purchase cheap or sim card packages to use their networks.


They still do... whenever a foreign customer roams on a Canadian network, their home carrier gets billed for the airtime by whatever canadian network the roaming occurred on. That's a big reason why Telus and Bell rolled out their GSM-compatible network so quickly; they didn't want Rogers to get all the roaming revenue during the Olympics.


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## arbitrage (Apr 30, 2010)

Does anyone know if you decide to go with a subsidized phone on a 3yr contract will the phone be able to be unlocked at the end of the 3 years? Has anyone had this done in Canada on past iphones? I have no strong reason to not get the non-subsidized phone but will only sign a contract if I know that after 3 years I can have it unlocked.


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## BobF4321 (Mar 11, 2008)

arbitrage said:


> Does anyone know if you decide to go with a subsidized phone on a 3yr contract will the phone be able to be unlocked at the end of the 3 years? Has anyone had this done in Canada on past iphones? I have no strong reason to not get the non-subsidized phone but will only sign a contract if I know that after 3 years I can have it unlocked.


I recently asked Rogers that question, and their reply was NO. Their justification was that since Rogers customers can now roam in over 165 countries, "unlocking is no longer offered or required" !!!!


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## sheamus (May 20, 2010)

I believe that the law says they have to unlock it after your contract is up in US. We don't have similar legislation, and given how spineless our politicians have been on DRM lately, I don't think we will see this anytime soon.

I was hoping that apple might do it for us, like they do in US: I phone up apple, and prove my contract is up, next time I sync to iTunes, it is unlocked.


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## jimbotelecom (May 29, 2009)

For what it's worth the NDP with Liberal support are introducing a bill to force carriers to sell their phones unlocked. I have my doubts that this will become reality prior to the next federal election but it's a start.


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## ntba (Jun 15, 2010)

I posted on here but I'm not sure if it made it or not, here goes again!

I'm just wondering if I buy an unlocked phone and replace it with my current iPhone 3GS on a fido contract, once I activate it with iTunes does Fido upload some sort of automatic lock to it, what I mean is does the phone STAY unlocked once I activate it for use with iTunes, or is it as simple as swapping my SIM (Once I cut it down to size hehe  )

It really kicked in for me once I realized Fido or any other Canadian provider doesn't unlock for ANYONE, and as a registered iPhone developer I have no other choice BUT a LEGAL unlock.


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## KMPhotos (Jun 17, 2008)

sheamus said:


> I believe that the law says they have to unlock it after your contract is up in US.


I don't believe that is law in the U.S. If it was we'd already see a lot of unlocked original iPhones.


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

The only US law that I know of involving cell phones is that people can now keep their number when they switch carriers. I've seen nothing mentioned about unlocking their phones once a contract is up.


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## West Coast Boy (Sep 3, 2004)

So I wonder if you take your iPhone into a Canadian Apple store for replacement under warranty will you get an unlocked phone?


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## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

West Coast Boy said:


> So I wonder if you take your iPhone into a Canadian Apple store for replacement under warranty will you get an unlocked phone?


You can't take your US iPhone into a Canadian store and get a replacement. If the US unit is truly screwed, the owner will have to wait until he/she can visit a US store or arrange to have a replacement mailed to the address on the account. Canadian sotres don't have an inventory of AT&T phones and they won't be giving out the high-priced unlocked models as replacement (it would probably be against contract with AT&T).


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## KMPhotos (Jun 17, 2008)

West Coast Boy said:


> So I wonder if you take your iPhone into a Canadian Apple store for replacement under warranty will you get an unlocked phone?


No, what they'll have is the phones that becomes locked to your carrier as soon as the SIM card is put in.


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## jakey (Jul 8, 2008)

KMPhotos said:


> No, what they'll have is the phones that becomes locked to your carrier as soon as the SIM card is put in.


But I thought the unlocked phones that the Apple store in Canada will have can be used "at will," essentially, with any carrier. If you're replacing your locked-to-whatever-carrier phone under warranty, will Apple be obligated to "lock" the replacement unlocked phone?


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## KMPhotos (Jun 17, 2008)

jakey said:


> But I thought the unlocked phones that the Apple store in Canada will have can be used "at will," essentially, with any carrier. If you're replacing your locked-to-whatever-carrier phone under warranty, will Apple be obligated to "lock" the replacement unlocked phone?


Yes, the phones you buy from the Apple Store will be unlocked. But if you need a replacement and you don't have an unlocked phone, you won't get an unlocked replacement. You'll get a locked phone. 
Apple has the ability to lock and unlock phones. This is proven by the fact that in some countries they have to by law unlock it once the contract is over. 
So Apple will be able to lock and unlock the phones.


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## jakey (Jul 8, 2008)

Check. Thanks for the explanation.

Otherwise I could see a lot of folks buying Applecare, and then intentionally breaking their locked phones in order to get an unlocked replacement.


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