# Need quick answer Pannie GX-1



## MacDoc

*Pannie GX-1 - new camera for MacDoc*

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX1K 16 MP Micro 4/3 Compact System Camera with 3-Inch LCD Touch Screen and 14-42mm Zoom Lens (Silver)

plus the wide angle lens as well about $850 US here in Hong Kong??










TIA - special package.

Thoughts on this for birding??

Damn the thing is small with that wide angle on. and the body is tiny for the category.

review is here

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX1 Review: Digital Photography Review

Features

Panasonic Lumix-Dmc-Gx1 Review: Overview


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## The Doug

Birding... a 14 - 42 mm zoom ain't gonna get you anywhere.

Though it's chunky I think you'd do better with a Lumix FZ150.


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## MacDoc

K thanks - I don't do long distance butI am sitting on this decision.

I do like the bigger Lumix but the size of this was attractive as was the fast AF


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## yeeeha

The Lumix GF, GH and now GX series are great cameras. My friend switched from a compact point-and-shoot to GF-1, then upgraded to GH-2 in less than a year. AF is fast for a mirrorless camera. It could still be challenging to get shots of birds in flight at low altitude. But that kind of shots is also challenging for a DSLR with a fast AF lens.

My friend uses a wide angle pancake lens and the 14-140mm lens most of the time.

If you don't care about the ability to switch lens, take a look at the Canon PowerShot G1 X.

Be careful where you purchase the camera in Hong Kong. There are some dishonest camera shops. I would check what is written or printed on the invoice, then open the box in the store before you leave. My dad and his friends used to be a camera equipment distributor in Hong Kong. They told me stories that some stores would give customers, particularly tourists, a camera item that was different from what customers paid for. For example, an invoice could just state a lens of 70-300mm without stating which brand. A customer could have paid for a Nikon 70-300mm lens, but in the bag was a Sigma 70-300mm lens. This customer returned to the store to argue later but the invoice clearly didn't state that it was a Nikon lens.


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## iMatt

With the right lens (45-175 at a minimum, ideally 100-300) the GX would be adequate for birding, but I think you would also find yourself wanting the accessory viewfinder. For what it is that's a big-ticket item that, based on Panasonic's track record, is all too likely to be orphaned sooner than later. 

The G3 has the very same sensor as the GX1, and a built-in viewfinder, for less money (most of the time). The GH2 is starting to pop up for great prices, as it's nearing the end of the line, and it has an even better sensor.

I love the GF1 and GX1 form factor too, but honestly the G- and GH-series bodies are way more versatile.


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## CanadaRAM

Make sure your hands are ok with the tiny body / huge lens combo. Sometimes having more body to grip and balance the lens is preferable.


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## MacDoc

DMC-G2K Digital Camera Kit with G Vario 14-42 mm lens

have a chance for one of these at $300 or so - thoughts? 

and what lens
••


That's a good point CR 0 the bigger body on the G2K might be easier handling.


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## Max

Nice camera, not very fast for shooting moving subjects like birds. Also, the kit lens won't cut it. It's a nice camera, but it's yesterday's camera.


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## MacDoc

Yeah the AF speed on the GX1 was an attraction.

Birds generally are not moving - but I do need fast focus.

I'm unsure of your use of "speed" in this context.

I need good light gathering as I sometimes shoot in low light ( rain forest ) and good AF as I'm pissed at the really awful function on the current smaller Pannie.
In the case of the smaller one - it seems to focus fine in video mode but flat out sucks on foreground objects 

Lost not a few photo ops due to that hunting about and subsequent blurred main object.

••••

there is also a 4 month old Panasonic gf3 at $350 available.
The conclusion here is interesting on the review as a step up from what I have

snip



> Of course rumors of the release of a GF-series camera always raise the hopes of GF1 users for an enthusiast-targeted rangefinder-styled successor. At even a cursory glance it is evident that the GF3 is not that camera; instead its features, design and price place it squarely in the sights of those looking to upgrade from a compact camera. The GF3 offers these users significantly higher image quality, access to advanced shooting options and a selection of high quality lenses, all in a package sized to be welcoming rather than intimidating.
> Image quality
> .....
> 
> The design and layout of the GF3 more closely resembles that of a compact camera than any other G-series model. As such, it is a very simple camera to operate. Basic exposure settings can be easily accessed and the customizable Q.Menu greatly reduces the need to hunt through menu trees. The camera's touchscreen interface features intuitive onscreen buttons that offer a fast, efficient way of operating the camera.


Panasonic DMC-GF3 Review: Digital Photography Review

found this lens as we












> Selling last bit of my micro four thirds professional lens, I have a panasonic 100-300mm lumix telephoto lens. This is the best long zoom lens made for m4/3 system. Provides 200-600mm equivalent reach, perfect for any outdoor adventures. This lens is much more suited for wildlife and birds than the panasonic 45-200mm.
> 
> It is brand new, including box, hood, pouch (all original content). I bought this awhile ago, but I just upgraded to ASP-C


is this the level of lens I need??? :yikes::yikes:


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## iMatt

You don't *need* that level of lens, but it will help.

But I wouldn't put that lens on one of the tiny bodies. Yes it will work, but it will be tough to compose and shoot comfortably unless you use a tripod.

Between the G2 and GF3, IMHO you would be slightly better off with the G2. Same sensor and better ergonomics, features and controls -- at the cost of slower AF and overall responsiveness (shot-to-shot time etc.). 

IMHO your best bang-for-buck basic birding kit in this system would be the G3 + 45-200. Better AF and general responsiveness, and the newer sensor will give you more room to boost ISO, which is the crucial variable for successfully shooting handheld with a long, slow zoom in anything less than sunlight.

You know it's about light gathering... there are no bright zooms yet and they will be expensive when they arrive, so the best thing you can do for yourself right now is to go for a camera with a relatively new sensor.


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## MacDoc

Yeah - light gathering in a rain forest is an exercise in frustration but there I'd want some with good low light and not a lot of zoom.
I had been turning the flash off but then noticed the camera did far better with the flash on automatic.

My idea is this.

The 3/4 format is small enough to carry in my motorcycle jacket with a short lens attached for point and shoot and close quarters shots.

Then acquire at some point a suitable long lens. I've got an idea of $800 for body and 2 lenses.
I have very little interest in video performance so that's low priority.

Light gathering, camera size and especially fast AF response in near field is the first priority.

Then a long lens that is appropriate and carrying a mono-pod or small tripod is also an option for birding specific sites.

I'd like to get it sorted by the fall when we go to the Baltic and there a longer lens will be needed.


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## MacDoc

I'm settled on the 3/4 Lumix for the reasons stated. I'm just not certain of which one. I'm thinking this unit at $300 ( she'll take that ) will give me some feel for the category at a price I can probably flip it for and it does have a slightly larger grip set up and carrying it on the bike.....

There is a lot to like at $300 and I can then get a long lens when the opportunity arises.
Decently comprehensive review here.

Panasonic Lumix DMC-G2 Review

Weakness is the new AF are much faster than this one but again at the price point it lets me get used to the 3/4 format tho this one I could not tuck in a pocket unlike the newer ones - but likely a lot easier to shoot with a long lens as well and the reviewer praises the balance and also the white balance out of doors which is where most shooting will occur.

I'm on a learning curve and $300 seems okay for this feature set and size. Not completely certain yet tho. 

As mentioned trying to fit the 3/4 Lumix and decent birding lens into $800 budget by end of summer.
I have used the swing out LCD before and shooting on a mcycle it's a useful feature even tho it makes the camera bulky.










from the review - I do like the build quality of the Lumix and it needs to survive some of the rough and tumble of motorcycle based use.



> BUILD AND DESIGN
> While the DMC-G2 is on the small side, compared to a typical entry-level DSLR, it has excellent build quality. Its construction is mostly metal with a plastic coating. Dials and buttons are very sturdy and work smoothly. The camera is weighty in the hand, especially with a lens attached. Although the camera looks small, it is not delicate. While I wouldn't advocate dropping it, I think it could survive a modest fall rather well.
> 
> Panasonic G2
> 
> Ergonomics and Controls
> The DMC-G2 is very well-balanced, with a deep right-side handgrip. There is also a useful thumb rest in the rear.* Although the camera looks like it could be used with one hand, it's probably too heavy to do so comfortably*


As long as I can shoot once in a while one handed - this is something I'd try if I go see it.

Having both the LCD and a sophisticated view finder.



> The G2 also has the same high resolution electronic viewfinder used by the G1, which contains 1.44 million dots and a fast refresh rate, unlike the fixed, lower resolution viewfinder of the G10


Both touch screen and manual controls. Lot of flex at $300.
Down side is less dynamic range and slower AF than current.
Always trade offs eh. ''

Rainy day - might drive over for a look and try a few shots in the dim.




> Black Panasonic Lumix DMC-G2K Digital Camera Kit with Lumix G Vario 14-42 mm f/3.5-5.6 lens
> 
> $335 or reasonable offer
> 
> Complete box includes camera body, lens hood, battery, strap, manual, silkypix software program, AC cable, USB cable charger, AV cable, etc. original packaging
> 
> - Micro 4/3 Digital Camera with Interchangeable Lens System
> 
> -12.1 MP Live CMOS Sensor with 3.0” free angle LCD touch screen
> 
> - iA (Intelligent Auto) Mode and manual mode
> 
> - One-touch Movie Recoding: AVCHD HD, 1280 x 720, 60p movies with movie button
> 
> - Live View Finder with eye sensor: Shoot same image the camera sees
> 
> - Photography and HD movies. Loads of features.
> 
> - RAW and PDF.
> 
> Condition: Complete kit excellent condition.


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## The Doug

Shooting one-handed... get ready for image blur.


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## MacDoc

I know - goes with the turf on a mcycle. Sometimes get lucky.










One handed on a curve at 100 kph on the little 6 mp Lumix I had before my current one. But shot with no zoom on - and not even point and shoot - this was just shoot and get lucky. It even caught the blur on the road and reasonable detail on the Harley rider. Bit of a tribute to the Burgman smoothness as well as I hadmy wrist on the grip while shooting .....bright day helped.

I'm figuring if I wait on a 3.4 lens deal to come along I can live having a "practice" 3/4 to learn on at a decent price point and then move to better/smaller later if I'm inclined.


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## MacDoc

eh - being indecisive - leaning toward the GF3 now as newer and size and still 3/4

review









Panasonic GF3 review | from TechRadar's expert reviews of Digital slrs/hybrids

looks like can get one for $300-320 4 months old with the pancake lens - but no view finder


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## MacDoc

I'm really thinking my grouching with my current camera is a combination of the erratic AF and poor light gathering
This in good daylight and no I was NOT standing in the pond.









and this when it focuses properly which too often is hit and miss for reasons unknown.










Perhaps when it gets in low light the AF gets tangled up trying to decide what settings to use.

I do notice when shooting I will often get a very different shot only a few seconds apart as the AI tries to figure out what to do.

Both shots have very acceptable detail

This sort of tilts me toward the GF3 as a mini step up but then I can put a long lens on it.

If the TZ5 can do this...then the GF3 with better all around technology might be just right.


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## The Doug

What firmware does your TZ5 have? I did some searches and others have had similar gripes with autofocus under firmware 1.1. A 1.2 update was released to (supposedly) address the problem. Example:

TZ5 and focus issues: Panasonic Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review


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## MacDoc

Dunno but have not changed it. Not sure how to check.


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## The Doug

Menu diving.


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## MacDoc

K - worth a shot - seems I'm not alone and I can actually see the camera switch modes from landscape to another preset as it hunts. 

Yes was 1.1 moved it to 1.2 - not too hard. Will see if that helps. Thanks


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## iMatt

MacDoc, has all your window shopping been online so far? If so, I think you really need to handle these cameras and play with the controls before making a final decision.

The GF3 is a slippery little thing; if you go for it you might want to add some kind of rubbery skin. Even if not buying a long lens right away be sure to try it with one in the store.

As for the G2 and especially G3, they're probably not quite as big as you might think, though you would need quite a spacious jacket pocket for either of them.

$800 should be very doable for a body and two lenses. Maybe even with a current-model body -- right now at B&H you can get a G3 and 45-200 for $700 total. Even if you don't want to do mail order from the States, that still means dealers elsewhere should be catching up with those kinds of prices within a couple of months. You might look at Olympus here too -- in-body stabilization can be nice to have. If buying today on a tight budget, I'd look at the E-PL3. With a generous budget, the E-M5.

BTW it's Micro Four Thirds or m43, not 3/4. Regular 4/3 without the "Micro" is the nearly defunct SLR standard formerly used by Panasonic and still used by Olympus. 

You'll need to bear that in mind when you start shopping for long lenses, because Olympus has a lot of overlap in their lineup and new users don't always know or notice that there are two related but different mounts in play.


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## MacDoc

Thanks for the designation - have handled a couple but can't recall which. 

Good tip on the GF3 which I'm definitely leaning towards due to the size.

I'll stay entirely in the Panasonic product range for lenses and accessories. No problem with buying from the US but likely through Amazon if I go new as we have a good set up.
Thanks - more soon - fading - badly jet lagged.


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## iMatt

Don't rule out Oly lenses. There are some really good ones.


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## MacDoc

There is one of these kicking about at $210 - wondering if the lens is long enough for reasonable birding.










older model 

Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ38 / FZ35 review: verdict, FZ38 / FZ35 vs SX20 IS vs SX1 IS vs HX1 | Cameralabs

Certainly for local birding here in reasonable light should be decent. Any thoughts??


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## The Doug

FZ35 is good for an olde-fashioned bit of mid-2009 tech.

Compact Camera Group Test: SLR-like 'super zoom' cameras: Digital Photography Review

18x zoom on the FZ35 should be mostly alright but the new Nikon P510 has 41.7x. Just sayin'.


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## SINC

The Doug said:


> 18x zoom on the FZ35 should be mostly alright but the new Nikon P510 has 41.7x. Just sayin'.


I have the Nikon P500 with a 36x zoom and use it for birding quite successfully (see shot below). Despite its large looking size, it is incredibly lightweight and I use it one-handed often. With the new P510 out now, you may find a P500 under $300 now if you look.










Here is a view of Horse Thief Canyon in full wide angle, then a close up of the area marked in the small red box at 36x zoom. I leaned the camera against a fence post to steady it and carry a tiny tripod for these shots as it is very difficult to use the zoom at full power without a rest of some kind above about 20x zoom.


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## MacDoc

Nice - how far away was the bird - was that full zoom or something in between.

This was full zoom 10x optical-- hand held ( cropped photo ) in intermediate light. Parrots in Australia across the road from the motorcycle and maybe 20' up so say 40' away.
These are Rosella's and quite common in the area. Australia has tons of parrot and lorikeet species.










My goal would be able to get in twice as close with good detail and fast focus and still be able to hand hold the camera.

That long zoom is impressive for detail - same lens on both shots??


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## MacDoc

Okay - this is a maybe to get to current tech just near budget.

GF1 with very good reviews - 4:3 and current tech - $600 private - best I can find is $1075 new on Amazon.

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 12.1MP Micro Four-Thirds Interchangeable Lens Digital Camera with LUMIX G 20mm f/1.7 Aspherical Lens










awfully good reviews
Amazon.com: Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 12.1MP Micro Four-Thirds Interchangeable Lens Digital Camera with LUMIX G 20mm f/1.7 Aspherical Lens: Electronics

and this lens which is not immediately critical on timing










Panasonic 45-200mm f/4.0-5.6 Lumix G Vario MEGA OIS Zoom Micro Four Thirds Lens for Panasonic and Olympus Micro Four Thirds Cameras

at $270 new

Thoughts on this combo - spend more on the camera and wait on the lens.

••

Big draw from one of the owners - AF speed and I know for sure this will fit in my mcycle jacket pocket.



> 3) snappy autofocus. everyone claiming the E-P1/P2's autofocus is on par with the GF1 is smoking something, or aren't sensitive to AF speed (e.g. landscape/portrait shooters). the GF1 focuses faster than my 1Ds does, way faster than the E-P1, and offers pretty good control over the AF point. this is critical for street shooting, where you have just a second to compose, focus and take a shot. the E-P1 just felt sluggish, even when i put the 20mm/1.7 on it. it felt slower than the LX3/Dlux4 and even the G10. the GF1 takes pictures when i expect it to, even with focus-priority...i couldn't say the same for my time with E-P1.


from the same owner on low light performance



> incredible low light performance. the 1.7 is surprisingly sharp wide open if your subject is distant enough. this means i can street shoot at about ISO400 at dawn or dusk, 1/100 or 1/250 shutter sometimes to stop motion. ISO 1600 is amazingly clean to my eye, and beats ISO1250 on my 1Ds.


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## iMatt

The GF1 is my primary camera -- love it -- but those prices are insane. I wouldn't pay more than ~300 body-only. If the $600 includes the 20mm/f1.7 lens, then the deal is OK but not great. New-old-stock on Amazon or eBay is usually a rip, and so it is here.

The 45-200 is a very good lens, but again you've got a bum price. Currently $199 at B&H.

AF performance is highly lens-dependent. It's a bit sluggish but adequate with the 20/1.7, very good with the 45-200. In both cases, not as fast as with newer Panny bodies. This body is also quite a bit bigger than GF2 or GF3. (If you're looking at the GF1, might as well consider the GF2 as well... a tad smaller, but still pretty good in the hand, generally cheaper b/c the GF1 is considered a classic and so cost is usually out of line with what it should cost based on tech alone.)

ISO 1600 can be usable, but I found it took some practice before I started to see really decent results. But this will be the same with the GF3 as well (same sensor).


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## MacDoc

The deal includes the pancake lens and a rather nice looking leather hard case. Have not heard back tho.

The long lens is just an idea at this stage.



> The 45-200 is a very good lens, but again you've got a bum price. Currently $199 at B&H.


that's good to know - you think sufficient for birding?
Looks reasonable compact.

What is best value in current 4/3 with pocketable body ( big pocket ). TIA


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## iMatt

Leather hard cases are pretty cheap via eBay. Unless it's a handmade Italian job I wouldn't think it adds a whole lot of value. All things considered, the $600 isn't too bad.

Be aware that if you ever want the accessory viewfinder, it's pretty lousy. Panasonic got tons of things right with this camera, but they totally cheaped out on video output, making a low-res little EVF and an accessory port that can drive that *only* that one accessory.

The GX1 is basically a slightly slimmed down GF1 with new sensor, better grip, touchscreen, orientation sensor and a couple of other goodies, and a better accessory port and EVF. 

If this is the style of camera you want and you can find a good deal, I'd go for the GX1 (here we are back to post no. 1)...


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## MacDoc

Yeah I'm pretty settled on the form factor now and will get the basic camera first and then a long lens later. Thanks for help.

I have a larger older Canon I want to play with here and carry just to see how the larger form factor works or I suppose I could haul out the much older 2 mp big Lumix for testing. That camera was the one got me hooked on Lumix in the first place.

I do NOT want to get into an arms race situation - I'd rather buy decent but a bit behind the market. Seems 2011 was a watershed year as far as improvements go in the 4/3 market - is this true??


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## iMatt

MacDoc said:


> that's good to know - you think sufficient for birding?
> Looks reasonable compact.
> 
> What is best value in current 4/3 with pocketable body ( big pocket ). TIA


I'd say the Oly E-PL3, but if you're set on Panasonic probably the GX1.

The 45-200 is pretty beefy compared to the compact bodies; usable but best with an SLR-style body.

It has plenty of reach. Here's a cropped sample shot from the upper deck at Yankee Stadium to give you an idea. Not the best shot (may have inadvertently shot through the glass at the railing).


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## MacDoc

Is there another lens in the Pannie line that might work better? Still $199 is attractive and it would be carried separately from the camera along with a suitable tripod or monopod so I could set up for more serious birding in wet lands etc.

Rain forest I just need speed and low light capability as there is never any distance involved beyond about 50-60' but I would like detail at that distance.


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## iMatt

2011 was a watershed only in that Panasonic finally released a new sensor after scads of Olympus and Panasonic models all using the same good-but-not-great 12MP sensor that had been in use since 2008 or so.

So far, the only models *not* using that sensor are GH1 and GH2 (GH have always had a separate sensor line); Panasonic G3 and GX1; and Oly E-M5. 

IMHO you really should handle a G3. It's only marginally bigger than the GX1. You lose a couple of features and a bit of build quality, but gain a good EVF and articulating screen, for a lot less money. You only need a slightly bigger pocket than for a GX1.


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## SINC

MacDoc said:


> Nice - how far away was the bird - was that full zoom or something in between.
> 
> That long zoom is impressive for detail - same lens on both shots??


The bird was about 30 feet away with about half zoom power and the Horse Thief Canyon shot was indeed with the same lens, the only lens that comes with the camera.


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## iMatt

MacDoc said:


> Is there another lens in the Pannie line that might work better? Still $199 is attractive and it would be carried separately from the camera along with a suitable tripod or monopod so I could set up for more serious birding in wet lands etc.
> 
> Rain forest I just need speed and low light capability as there is never any distance involved beyond about 50-60' but I would like detail at that distance.


For low light, medium distance I would go with the Oly 45/1.8. Around $400, very popular. Not sure if that's long enough for 50-60 ft, though.

In a longer zoom, your options right now are really various Oly lenses that cover similar territory, a couple of longer ones that will add bulk and price (100-300 Panny, 75-300 Oly), or the Panasonic 45-175, nice and small, internal zooming, but you pay a price for it. *All* of them are pretty slow, as in f4.5 or darker, meaning you won't get much joy in the rainforest unless you get a body with the newer sensor.

It's all about tradeoffs... unfortunately you're looking at a big challenge ticking all your boxes on a budget.


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## MacDoc

Yup. It seems I'm destined for the new sensor which makes sense then wait on a lens. GF1 guy came back to me so it's available.

- that does have the new sensor?


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## The Doug

If you post one blurry bird pic with your new camera I will have to go see my doctor.


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## iMatt

MacDoc said:


> Yup. It seems I'm destined for the new sensor which makes sense then wait on a lens. GF1 guy came back to me so it's available.
> 
> - that does have the new sensor?


GF1 has been discontinued for around 18 months. 

For new sensor, you need G3, GX1, or E-M5. Best bang-for-the-buck (by a very wide margin) is the G3. And it is not a big body -- if you have a pocket big enough to hold a GF1 with a lens mounted, you have one big enough for a G3. I know it lacks the sex appeal of the compact bodies, but are you going to look at it or take pictures with it?


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## MacDoc

I have no care what it looks like. But there is no way a G3 is as slim with a lens as the the others without a viewfinder. 
I must admit I am partial to a viewfinder and do like the swing out lcd. 

















G3 versus GX1

But I think I will have to go handle a G3. What pancake lense is the best value for it or should I just get one of the packages.

I offered one of the Kiji sellers $500 with this lens

14-42mm image stabilizing Panasonic lens
Rechargeable lithium ion battery
Battery charger
Shoulder strap
USB and audio/video cable
Software CD-ROM


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## iMatt

True, the EVF adds bulk/thickness. Still, all but the tiniest pancakes make the point moot. Mount any zoom (except the pricy new 14-42 pancake power zoom) and you need a heck of a pocket.

For pancakes, you have 14mm/2.8 (relatively inexpensive, tiny wide-angle; good but not great for low light); 20mm/1.7 (bigger, higher quality "normal" lens, good for low light, but slow focusing especially on older models); 17mm/2.8 Oly (much maligned but not so bad general-purpose lens); 14-42 power zoom (basically a compact-cam lens, only interchangeable).

A nearly-new G3 with the regular, non-power-zoom 14-42 is OK at $500, again not great. $618 brand new right now at B&H (black model only) or $650 @ Vistek w/ Canadian warranty.


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## MacDoc

Cheap and cheerful?? GF1 with 3 lens for $300 - no further details


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## iMatt

I can't see what all those lenses are apart from some kind of old Canon mounted on the body... basically with this setup you are using the camera as a sort of "digital back" for old all-manual lenses. The photos will look 2x magnified compared to film. The body being worth somewhere around ~250-300, the lenses are basically free.

IMHO you should have at least one AF lens for your workhorse (the 20/1.7 or a 14-42 kit zoom make good choices, or maybe the 14/2.8 pancake if you're into wide-angle), and you can add something like an old 50/1.4 or 85/1.8 for your rainforest needs, unless you're shooting really fast-moving subjects. But you have to be prepared for a much slower user experience. 

These old lenses can be great if you are the kind of person who doesn't mind taking some time to compose a shot, but most people will just find them inconvenient.


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## The Doug

Well spotted. Judging by the finger grip textures, none of them are Panny lenses. On this basis, I wouldn't even consider this one any further, myself.


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## Niteshooter

Late to the party... 

I have a GF2 with the kit 14-42mm lens. I bought it to use with a couple of adaptors mainly the Canon FD and Leica M to M4/3 body these are dirt cheap off eBay out of HK. Downside with the adaptors is you wind up with full manual or aperture preferred automation.

My wife does a lot of wildlife photography, I do the more human stuff but for birding you do not want to go with a body without a viewfinder whether it be digital like the G3 or a full fledged DSL. I have the removable EVF for my GF2 after I discovered it's shortfall with shooting in bright sunlight, basically the LCD is pretty much useless and if I'm shooting with IR filters forget it it is impossible to see. The EVF makes it useable although being removable it is also very easy to accidentally knock off!

Because there is a 2X crop factor with all lenses on M4/3 cameras that 100-300mm is actually a 200-600mm. I bought all my gear through B&H Photo in NYC since they ship to Canada with GST in and with their cheapest shipping option (Purolator) there is no brokerage fee which can be really expensive. 

The G3 with the 100-300mm would make an interesting birding kit though we shoot with a Canon 7D with Sigma 50-500mm but there is a huge difference in size and weight.


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## iMatt

Niteshooter said:


> The EVF makes it useable although being removable it is also very easy to accidentally knock off!


Yup. Almost lost mine at a music festival last year. Would definitely have lost it had I been alone -- a little tangle in the strap or on the way into the bag, and it can just slide out as quiet as you please.



Niteshooter said:


> The G3 with the 100-300mm would make an interesting birding kit though we shoot with a Canon 7D with Sigma 50-500mm but there is a huge difference in size and weight.


I think MacDoc really has his heart set on a compact body for reasons not necessarily related to birding. That being the case, I'd say the GX1 as in his OP is probably the best fit.

His lens kit could be just a birding lens and a pancake for everything else, without worrying about a basic kit zoom.

I just don't think it's wise to buy any model with the previous-gen sensor at this time.

But I should probably shut up about it now...


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## MacDoc

There is one for $700 all in brand new - maybe this is the best route and live with that lens for a while.

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX1K 16 MP Micro 4/3 Compact System Camera with 3-Inch LCD Touch Screen and Lumix G Vario 14-42mm Zoom Lens, F3.5-5.6 ASPH Mega O.I.S. (Black)

Yes I'm set on the smaller body as a long term goal as with a pancake lens I can have it on the bike in my pocket and a birding lens in a case.



> His lens kit could be just a birding lens and a pancake for everything else, without worrying about a basic kit zoom.
> 
> I just don't think it's wise to buy any model with the previous-gen sensor at this time.


Yup that's the end game goal and yes new sensor
- you think I can sell the G Vario 14-42mm Zoom Lens, F3.5-5.6 ASPH Mega O.I.S. on it's own?


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## MacDoc

Guy with the "Camera , brand new , Panasonic Lumix DMC-G3 with Lens" came back at $550.

who me??










appreciate the feedback guys.


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## iMatt

That 14-42 is the most basic of kit lenses, and I think you should hang onto it at least while learning the ropes with the new camera. You can certainly sell it but don't expect to get a whole lot. It adds around $75 to the cost of a kit and sells for around $150 on its own. (Assuming it is the one in posts no 7 and 15. There is also a pancake version, but I'm pretty sure that's not what you're getting.)

If you want a cheap pancake, the 14/2.8 can often be found new on eBay for ~$150. (List price is about $400 in Canada.)

Enjoy!


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## MacDoc

Off to get a GX1k tonight new for $690 cash

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX1K 16 MP Micro 4/3 Compact System Camera with 3-Inch LCD Touch Screen and Lumix G Vario 14-42mm Zoom Lens, F3.5-5.6 ASPH Mega O.I.S. (Black)

so I can stop antsing about it. 
Thanks for decision help


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## MacDoc

Okay - new owner of GX1k :clap: - now the learning curve. and some sleep.
Have a small camera bag it fits fine.
Also have a Sun-Pak flash I"ve never used - got it with my original Lumix FZ so I think that will work.

Curious about EVF down the road - glad I've had some time with P&S to get used to not having one. 










Only have my 4 gig card. What's suggested to carry couple of 8s or 16s?

Tips??

Hah - one of my staff has 4/3 video camera with a big zoom - should be fine to use.  Might be a bit of dumb luck.


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## MacDoc

10' away full zoom and operator has no idea what he doing 











pulled back to mid zoom - too many blossoms in the photo to make anything pop.










no zoom - think I'll move these to the GX1 thread - reduce clutter.
But feedback welcome for the moment.


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## iMatt

Congrats!

One practical tip: learn how to read the histogram. It's a great aid for getting your exposure right, and nailing the exposure is right up there with composition and focus when it comes time to sort the duds from the keepers. And that goes double when you're working at high ISOs and/or in lower light. 

The EVF should be a big improvement over its predecessor. If you've had a chance to play with a G3, it's about the same. But obviously you can take your time to see if you really need it -- not everyone finds LCDs, especially newer ones, unusable in bright sunlight. It is more of a benefit for handling big lenses, IMO.

Before using that flash, do some research to make sure it's fully compatible.

You should also stop thinking about this as just "4/3". It's Micro Four Thirds or m43 for short. 

It seems like a nitpicky little detail, but it isn't, because Four Thirds exists as a related but separate system. You need to be aware of the difference when you start looking at additional lenses, since Panasonic made a few regular 4/3 lenses, which will work on your camera but require an adapter and will have mediocre or nonexistent AF. You don't want to buy any 4/3 lenses by accident -- and it does happen.


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## MacDoc

Thanks. No hurry on EVF at all. 
Looking at those pics the full zoom seems a bit soft - is that an expected results?
Others are good to my eye tho I'm not looking at them full rez.

I find the Apple Cinema a treat for this so can few full size.

I tend to shoot and then compose later within reason.

I need to learn to trust the camera more to get the detail without always going to full zoom to compose. I've tended to take a couple at different zoom. 

The biggest difference aside from the slight size increase is the incredibly quick AF - what a treat instead of the wait and hope on the other.

Now that said - I still don't know how to select what I want in focus....reading time.

The myriad of blossoms at various depths seemed to confuse the AI - is this the norm and should I instead focus manually when circumstances allow?


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## iMatt

Focus is tricky. Try spot (single area) for shots like this, and then manual if that doesn't do it for you. 

You also have a lens that while decent is pretty much bottom-of-the-heap for this system. The original Panasonic kit lens (14-45) was way better, and that's reflected in prices -- still available for around $300, twice what yours goes for as a standalone item.

You also won't get a whole lot of "pop" (which I read as subject isolation) with the 14-42. The lens gives you more control over depth of field than you ever had with the TZ, but it's still minimal for an interchangeable lens system. The only way is to use full zoom on a close subject with a fairly distant background, which you can see from your first shot. 

If you really want some control over depth of field, you will get some with the 20/1.7 (again, close subjects) and still more with the Oly 45/1.8. If you want to do it on the cheap you could get yourself an old 50/1.8 or 1.4 in the mount of your choice and add a $20 adapter via eBay, but you have to be prepared to use manual focus and aperture control. I like the 70s/early 80s vintage Nikkor 50/1.8 -- dirt cheap, build quality that puts most modern lenses to shame, and once you stop down to f4 or so unbelievably sharp and detailed.


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## MacDoc

Thanks - you are earning a lot of brownie points on a sharp Mac deal if the time comes ;-)

••••

Spring is such a nice time to shoot.

Little gunshy handling the camera and lens - need a wrist strap and a lens cover something ( any recommendations ). Camera feels very good but of course hands don't know where to go.


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## iMatt

It should have come with a neckstrap, but a wrist strap works if you prefer. 

For the lens cover, do you mean a hood? You should also have received one of those. If not, usually the original part is absurdly expensive, and an identical clone via eBay is very cheap. 

As for placing your hands, it's a lot like the old days if you ever had a film SLR: 

- left hand cradling the lens from below, not grasping it from above - good support, easy to work zoom and/or focus rings
- right hand with index finger on the shutter button, three fingers on the grip, and thumb on the thumbrest, ready to work the control wheel and buttons as needed
- if you're using the touch screen, normally you'd do so with your left hand, but with this model you should be able to do almost everything with your right thumb working the physical controls
- however, the "killer feature" of the touchscreen is the ability to tap to select a focus point and take the photo - could be worth it for that alone

I hope I won't be needing another Mac for 3 years or so, so am not actually fishing for BPs. 

Cheers.


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## MacDoc

I know you're not but good deeds shall be rewarded at some point if you choose 

Lens cover - I mean a way to have the lens cover attached to the camera so it does not get lost = shooting from the motorcycle the last things I need is something that drops in the mud as in many forest track situations there is simply no way I can get off the bike to retrieve it - so it has to dangle.

Have not looked at the complete box contents - was zoned last night - sickish and just fell into bed.
The lens did come with a hood which for on the bike will not be practical. 

The camera with the lens is easy to pull out and shoot from my bag. I just need to secure the lens cap with something preferably stretchy.

Have not activated the touch screen yet - too foggy in brain and not enough dedicated play time. Typical Mac user - play with first then read reluctantly.


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## iMatt

OK, you want to tether the lens cap... you'll have to rig something. You could drill a very small hole in the cap and run a very thin but strong string through it, and attach the other end to one of the camera's strap lugs. The problem is that not all lenses take the same diameter cap, so once you have a second lens you'll also want some way to make it easy to detach the tethered cap from the camera. Look around, somebody probably makes something designed specifically to solve this one.

My guess is the 14/2.8 pancake is nearly ideal for your biking. Incredibly small, fast focusing, deep depth of field, good overall performance, nice and wide but not freakish angle of view.


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## MacDoc

I've seen elastic loops that go around any size lens and then to the cap but not sure how they tether at the cap end.


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## iMatt

Quick search turns up the Sima Capkeeper -- elastic around the lens, and an adhesive to tether the cap end. For $2 it might be worth a try, or you could rig something similar on your own. (I would be inclined to drill rather than use an adhesive.) 

Tethering to the lens instead of the body makes all kinds of sense, but not entirely sure this particular lens has a good place for it. Right over the zoom ring might work. Don't really see it at all for the pancakes, though.


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## MacDoc

Wow finally got it full size on the Cinema 

detail at the mid zoom level 











no zoom detail at full size - like the bark texture.









we like.

For the pancake I would attach the elastic to the camera body - thanks for link.


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## SINC

MacDoc, I suspect the softness you refer to is because you are shooting through at least a double pane glass window, unless I miss my guess. Even plain glass adds optics the camera cannot compensate for.  Try a shot at the same zoom level outside at the same distance from the branches and I bet the image is much sharper.


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## iMatt

I suspect either camera shake (for which stabilization is not a panacea) or the focus is not quite nailed. And many lenses are a little soft wide-open.

If there is a skylight/UV filter on there, ditch it immediately and don't look back.

I also recommend abandoning full-auto (iA) mode ASAP, if that's what you're using.

Looks like you have plenty of light to work with, so suggest you try the following, ideally changing only one variable between each test shot:

- if you haven't done so already, switch to single-point focusing. IIRC you can adjust the size of the single point by turning the thumb wheel right after you select that mode -- set it as small as possible
- set the camera to the lowest available ISO (160?)
- set the mode dial to A (Aperture Priority) and try some shots at maximum aperture (f3.5 at the wide end, f5.6 long), then use the thumbwheel to stop down about 1/2 stop from wide open (i.e., f4 to f6 depending on zoom)
- regardless of the shutter speed shown, try some shots with and without OIS - with that lens I would turn it off at speeds over 1/250 or so 
- as the light dims, you can ratchet up the ISO and also go back to shooting wide-open (f3.5 wide, f5.6 long)

- there should also be sharpness, contrast and saturation settings in the camera; you can play with those too, but I'd leave them at the default setting until you've experimented with other things. 

- last but not least, consider shooting RAW. YMMV, but I just find it easier to get things as I like them on the computer rather than fussing around dialling a bunch of different settings into the camera.


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## Lawrence

MacDoc said:


> I've seen elastic loops that go around any size lens and then to the cap but not sure how they tether at the cap end.


They use a peel and stick tab on the lanyard for the lens cap,
I used to have a few of them on my old Canon camera.


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## MacDoc

> MacDoc, I suspect the softness you refer to is because you are shooting through at least a double pane glass window, unless I miss my guess. Even plain glass adds optics the camera cannot compensate for. Try a shot at the same zoom level outside at the same distance from the branches and I bet the image is much sharper.


Not on the three shots - I have one window that swings open wide specifically so I can shoot and see without anything in the way.

••••

I suspect the AF was hunting a bit and would be fine if I nailed it to one of the blossoms. I need Auto for shooting from the motorcycle and just have to trust the AI and take a couple of quick shots.

Different if I'm off the bike. I'll have lots of time on the Baltic cruise this Sept to sort best method out. 

BTW I'm in need of memory cards....suggestions??


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## iMatt

32 GB SDHC, any major brand. Cost is now around $30-50 (i.e. prices halved yet again in the last year or so). 64 GB SDXC cards now start at $60! 

Speed specs shouldn't matter a whole lot unless you're shooting video... but then again prices have fallen so far that there's no reason not to opt for a high-spec (Class 10) card. 

The big caveat: buy from a reputable retailer, because fakes abound in grey-market channels. 

I hear you on the iAuto thing, but still beg to differ. I think you're probably better off starting with S (shutter priority) on the bike, maybe with Auto ISO. This is still an "Auto" mode -- one that's almost certainly going to give you better results than full auto, because you're specifying probably the single most important variable for shooting from a moving vehicle. 

You can't trust iA to pick a fast enough shutter speed to avoid motion blur. Or if you want some kind of deliberate blurring effect, you can't know whether it'll pick something slow enough. It's a crap shoot, because the camera doesn't know you're moving.

With time and experience, you can experiment with various combinations of settings to get just the kind of results you want -- tuned for greater or shallower depth of field, completely frozen motion or not, etc. But if you put it in iA, you will never get any experience besides seeing a bunch of more or less random results over which you have almost no control. iA is for riding tour buses, not bikes.


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## MacDoc

I have ram available  - just inquiring as to size

I'm not shooting mobile on the bike - I'm on it stationary and shooting hand held

Video is not of much concern. Fast focus is - need to learn that touch screen. Yes need to experiment but what ever flu I dragged off the plane is damping the joie de vie of a new toy


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## iMatt

Glad to hear you aren't shooting while mobile. Comments still apply, though -- P, A and S mode provide plenty of useful automation, but with enough control to give you consistently better results IMO. Once you learn how to use them you won't be spending time fiddling around for every shot.

I find 16 or 32 GB good, useful sizes, but honestly I've never found any card to be too big. 

Since you have a newer model that accepts SDXC... in your shoes I'd get a 64 and maybe a 32 as an extra. In time, 128 GB cards will become more affordable -- priced from $150 right now, so expect to see them under $100 by Christmas.

Bigger cards means less swapping, less worrying about storage space while travelling... but it's also a single point of failure, so you do need a spare in your bag.


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## MacDoc

Thanks no I wanna shoot like this....










From 
Leader Board | Pixoto

Incredible photos....


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## iMatt

That shot is about 75% technique (world's best camera and lens won't guarantee you get it), but it can't hurt to start saving your pennies for one of these:

Olympus 75mm f/1.8 Micro Four Thirds Lens Announced

Price not yet announced... best guess would be in the $750 ballpark.


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## MacDoc

Youse guys gonna cost me lotsa money....










I assume there are others on a learning curve.....what about a stick up top that has links and tips etc.


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## iMatt

Sorry, Doc, forgot to mention that once you buy a system camera it is officially an expensive hobby, like boats, fine wine, saltwater aquaria, audiophile gear, sports cars... 

Your choices: make more money, turn your hobby into a moneymaker, or strictly limit your roster of expensive hobbies.


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## MacDoc

urk - done boats, you missed sailplanes, was in the audiophile biz so that didn't count....and I try and keep the mcycle to a reasonable expense level

Still its a way to store memories and I tell you on a Cinema display a good pic is really appealing. Thanks for ongoing help - really appreciate it.

I put this one up on the Picato site see how it does - people have liked it when they see on the screen at the office


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## crawford

Love the reflection in the water. So much going on in such a still photo.


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## yeeeha

MacDoc said:


> I put this one up on the Picato site see how it does - people have liked it when they see on the screen at the office


That's a nice shot.


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## SINC

MacDoc said:


> I put this one up on the Picato site see how it does - people have liked it when they see on the screen at the office


I played with this shot ever so slightly and reduced the size just a bit. Wound up with this:


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## MacDoc

Cool - again the little camera frustrates me with good shots at times then under what seems easy conditions - whimps out.

I did upgrade the firmware but have had no chance to use it since. I really think the AI was confused on some shots and I wold see it switch modes briefly - the setting flashes on the LCD briefly.

When I'm feeling better and get another storage card I will try some comparative shots against the GX to see if I can hone down some settings on the little one.


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## MacDoc

Ah nice - finally stopped coughing and hacking enough to play - 
I do love the tap to focus screen and the AF is really quick. Just instant response.:clap:


















and full zoon


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## MacDoc

This is full size 9 mb of one of the shots if anyone is interested in downloading - would appreciate any feedback

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m269/macdoc/cherryfullisize.jpg

Decent morning sun.

What is best way to crop and scale with minimal loss.


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## eMacMan

I start by cropping but do not try to resize and crop at the same time. 

For quick size reduction, simply going to 1/2 of the original dimensions will usually give the best results. This should drop you from 9MP to about 2.25MP


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## MacDoc

Yeah - I try and crop on a copy then size down. What is lossless tho?


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## MacDoc

Still having fun with cherry blossoms - my pink phase - rained last night and wanted to catch the droplets.


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## iMatt

I tend to crop first and not worry about downsizing until I want to export a copy for a specific use (email, Facebook, printing, etc.). My main library does not have anything downsized in it. The key to saving space (assuming you need or want to) is not to get file sizes down, but to stop hanging onto shots you're never going to share or print. I am terrible at this, personally, so do as I say, not as I do.  

As for losslessness, I guess you mean the compression ratio of your export? IMO if you scale to roughly 1/2 or 1/3 the original linear dimensions, set to maximum JPEG quality, you should have something suitable for email, posting to Facebook, etc. in terms of both pixel dimensions and file size. For printing, I don't downsize at all unless uploading a file for a small print, in which case I look at the lab's specs.

Another key thing: whether you shoot RAW or JPEG, use a non-destructive editor. AFAIK all the biggies fit that description now, even when working with JPEG. In a nutshell that means you either make changes to a copy, or your changes (including crops) are stored as metadata rather than written directly to the file. When you export a copy, your changes will be "baked in" to the copy but not the original.

Looks like you're starting to get the hang of the camera. Lighting is less than ideal in some of the new shots, but you've got some nice detail coming out now and your focus issues seem to be fixed.


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## MacDoc

Yes the lighting is low but if I wait the drops are gone.


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## iMatt

What editor are you using? The latest version of iPhoto is pretty good, but you'll get way more power with Lightroom or Aperture. You can play with shadows, highlights, etc. in any of them, but the more advanced software gives you more flexibility and arguably better results (at the cost of ease of use, of course). No matter which editor you use, RAW files are massively more forgiving than JPEG when it comes to any kind of adjustment affecting the exposure. 

Note that Lightroom and Aperture edits are not compatible with one another, making migration a royal pain. So if you haven't settled on something, it's wise to consider it carefully before taking the plunge -- it's a commitment either way. If you're already using iPhoto, Aperture is probably the more sensible choice, but there could still be issues migrating from iPhoto to Aperture (I have no idea, just suggesting you look into it if considering such a move).


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## MacDoc

Not really editing at all beyond a tiny bit in some online posted shots for crisp or clarity. 
Only cropping in preview.

I'm not going to take the plunge into post processing until I'm more comfortable with the camera. I would however like to be able to correct that low light colour shift.


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## Max

Then a whole new world of refinement awaits you, MacDoc. Get into some good RAW editing and discover the joys of maximum potential in your images.


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## iMatt

Even without switching to RAW, drop $15 on iPhoto. 

Right now you're eating prime rib with a plastic spoon.


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## Max

Yep. Although I would add that, if you enjoy what iPhoto offers you, you might want to step it up and take it further. There's only so much that iPhoto will give you - although it must be said, in this day and age it's pretty amazing all the same.


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## MacDoc

I can't stand iPhoto - never use it.

I will get into post processing at some point with the most intuitive pro program. I see an awful lot of post processing effects on Pixoto and while in some cases I admire the results too often it destroys an otherwise fine shot.


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## Max

What is it about iPhoto you hate? I'm curious. It seems to me your shots would hugely benefit from a modest series of alterations - something iPhoto handles with aplomb. I love the straightening tool, for one thing. Does it very well. That said, It's LR all the way for me.


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## MacDoc

Never have liked the interface and the way it litters the computer with thumbnails.

Too many horror shows trying to recover drives. I organize with GraphicConverter and I like the older one with good random slideshow tools.

I like my photos in my own folders not some iPhoto concept. My sense is LR will be the choice but not for a while. I tend to be content with what the camera produces ( tho the AF issues drove me crazy with the TZ ) and then crop to compose.

I'm trying not to bog down into minutiae which is why have a good AI and AF is important and worth spending on. My photos are never for print so it's a different world in transmitted colour instead of reflective and sizing and scaling is often done on the screen in a temporary show case ( one reason I do like the Apple screen saver for it's varying juxtapositions and cropping so random photos seem fresh.
That's my major use of my photos and I see them daily from that varying viewpoint.
The 27" Cinema is truly sweet for that use. Crisp and bright and allows the slide show a wider range of resolutions to show in the window - sometimes Iuse just a corner and other times the whole surface.
It changes the photos in many ways and my appreciation of them.

Really nice with the higher pixel counts that the later ones don't pixellate out on th big screen when one of the slide shows blows up a section.


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## Max

Hmmmm.... thumbnails, eh? You'll hate Lightroom, then.

Minutiae is what image development - and subsequent appreciation - is all about. But it does require patience. If you don't have that, there are no shortcuts to better images. Your software will only go so far in giving you a kind of generic appeal; the last mile has to be walked by you. The camera itself is only part of the equation, for that matter.


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## eMacMan

My biggest issue with iPhoto, (which may or may not still be valid as I am 3 or 4 generations behind) is I never know what scale I am at and there seems to be no quick way to select 25%, 50% or 100% views. Absolutely crucial to be at one of these scales either when applying sharpening filters or trying to determine if moire patterns are affecting your image. For a quick work-up on an image I much prefer Preview which does solve those issues.


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## MacDoc

> Minutiae is what image development - and subsequent appreciation - is all about. But it does require patience. If you don't have that, there are no shortcuts to better images. Your software will only go so far in giving you a kind of generic appeal; the last mile has to be walked by you. The camera itself is only part of the equation, for that matter.


That's where we disagree in goals perhaps - I'm not looking for software for "better images". Yes some basic correction but for me a camera is "capturing a particular moment" not turning a mundane image into something that was not there.

The camera quality only allows more accurate detail of what I'm trying to capture - picking out the part of the scene I'm looking for quickly from the clutter. I'm not interested in it as an art process at all.
I'm interested in it as a method to revisit memories and evoke those and also as a way of capturing for later learning ( in the case of birding )

When I'm sitting along the Pacific on Captain Cook Highway in the early morning I'm looking to capture that feeling to relive and to share...not make an art piece out of it.

I have no issue with those that do approach it that way ....it's just not my thing.

Many of my shots include the motorcycle I'm on as they are destined to share with those on the riding forum and that inclusion helps them put themselves in that spot at that time even tho it may detract from the "art" of the particular photo - and it often does.

Sure - eye candy shots are great but the camera is for me just a memory aid and the picture not an end in itself but a way to invoke the memories associated with the shot. That's why I love the random slide shows that I run in the office and most of the time on my computer in a window as it takes me back to those places and times.

If they happen to combine eye candy and that evocative spur so much the better. Shooting in the clutter and low light of the rain forest simply led me to need a better capture tool and one that can focus automatically more accurately and with greater ease. The GX-1 for that purpose so far seems good and I'll trade off the greater bulk for that.

It also I think will reduce the need for a second camera on the trips we take with more expansive views. I can switch to a longer lens and capture some of the things the P&S would miss or be frustrated with due to distance it can resolve with the limited range and lens.

The photos are not the end goal but a memory aid which ideally evoke the feeling and the setting. Doing that quickly and accurately enhances the experience I'm on.
For the longest time I would carry no camera as I felt it got in the way of the experience.

But particularly on the bike with a partner who does not ride and with others who won't get the opportunity to cover some of the ground I've been able to.....the camera allows my memories and the sharing.

If the more sophisticated camera gets in the way of doing that process easily and without a lot of fuss .... then it won't get used for a broad spectrum of the activities I engage in.

Max, some of your photos are evocative which I like....but it's not with a specific memory in mind tho it may be to you.

Mine record a journey - and some of the wonders along the way -for me and to share with others. If new camera does offers me a better method without adding in delays or reducing spontanaeity - that's what I'm hoping for.

Not looking for painter's tools either in camera or software. Only an easy to use, quality recording tool with good glass.

Had my tiny high end binocs for 30 years and they've been a treasure.
Hoping to get that kind of enjoyment and use from this camera.

Here's a case in point...was just watching random slide show while I'm working and this popped up and instantly transported me to that lovely stretch of rain forest track I was on a couple of months ago. I could smell the richness of the forest as soon as it showed up.
The mcycle mirror makes it relevant to other riders who may visit the area and for my purposes in no way detracts from the shot.


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## MacDoc

Finally some full light to work with
Pretty happy with the "pop" on this










how do I achieve a greater depth of field on this one 









sorry for the pink deluge but I'm still sick and it's the local _colour_ :baby:


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## MacDoc

Yesssssss - fits in the mcycle jacket with the lens on :clap:


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## iMatt

I understand your not seeing it as an "artistic" thing, but just the same there can be value in going back and tweaking things that the camera didn't get quite right.

If you're shooting JPEG, then you have tons of camera settings that you can adjust to get the output just as you like it. If you take the time to explore these settings and tweak them just-so, you should have no need for post-processing because all you're really doing is setting up a single-purpose computer to do your bidding. You can think of this approach as "pre-processing".

Some of us, however, find that getting the camera to get it right is actually harder, less precise and more time-consuming than just doing it afterwards on the computer, when sometimes a single click can make all the difference. That doesn't have to mean faking anything or rendering something that wasn't there. On the contrary, once you become even moderately skilled at adjusting exposure, shadows, highlights etc. you can use that skill to make the final photo look *closer* to what you saw with the naked eye than the untweaked camera output.

As for software, Lightroom does give you lots of control over where your files go and how they're organized. Thumbnails are kind of an inevitable part of the whole process of having a photo library; I guess it's just a matter of where and how they're stored.

As for eMacMan's comment on iPhoto, it's still true (9.2.3) that you can't specify a precise zoom level.


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## MacDoc

I may have overs stated the situation - I'm quite happy to employ a simple post process to shift things a bit and I do at times and will in general let the camera's AI use it's own judgement until I'm more comfortable.

I've got months of work from years of photo shots on travels that still need weeding and organizing :yikes: let alone tweaking

My little essay was more on my purposes for camera use. I had been reasonably satisfied with the small pannies but the TZ25 both frustrated me with the AF and zoom issues yet tantalized me as to a better mouse trap.

Things like keeping track of a wandering lens cap while out on the road are new things - the TZ was for sure easy to use and I'll do some more with it now the firmware is fixed and see if that helps.

I've got my crampons dug in a bit on the top of this slippery slope 

Appreciate all the help tho.


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