# PRIMUS STINKS - 1280 dollar phone bill



## DoNotPokeTheScreen (Jun 9, 2005)

I have had enough from Primus (the telephone service provider)

Here's a brief summary of what happened...

We have a small family business. We always switch telephone service providers, because competition between service providers is strong these years, and as a small business, every dime matters.

One day, a Primus agent walk in and start to persuade my father (boss) to switch from Bell to Primus. My father is not fluent in English, but he specifically asked the agent if there were any consequences or penalties if we switch from Primus to another company in the future, just to make sure we are not locked in (it is best if you are not locked in, because companies are always competing to gain customers. Locked-in customers usually do not get the best rates). 

The agent said "No, there are no penalties of any kind", and he whipped out a contract for my father to sign without mentioning that it was a contract, nor explaining the terms in the contract. My father thought it was merely a registration form and he signed it - it's the biggest mistake my dad has ever made.

Almost a year later, Sprint Canada was offering a GREAT deal, so we switched to Sprint. Sprint handled everything with Primus, no hassle. It was great. Good rates, good service, and no hassle.

A few months later (the beginning of last summer), Primus sent us an invoice of 652 dollars for cancellation fee. After spending some time on the phone with several agents and eventually their branch manager S.J. (not sure if moderator would allow actual names here). I quickly realize that even when the contract should have been void due to language barrier, and my dad wasn't aware that he signed the contract, it wouldn't matter, because we have no way to proof that. I was not there to witness, it was only between my father and the agent, and the agent probably doesn't work there anymore.

After lots of stress and hassle, we successfully negotiated with the manager S.J. and there was an alternative. It was to sign another 1 year contract.

Spent another 3 weeks or so working out the agreements and making sure with SJ that we don't have to pay 652 dollars as penalty, we thought we were ready to switch back. 

Then, 5 days ago, Primus sent us another invoice for 1280 dollars in total. 652 for cancellation fees, and the rest, 630 dollars for long distance calls to Whitby, Pakistan, Norway, and Sweden. We did not make those calls. Some of those calls were made at times when the business is closed. Those calls were made on June 3rd, but we've switched to Sprint in April!!! We have NOT been using Primus' service since APRIL!!!

WTF.

I called to see what's up. I complaint to several agents (Politely), and so did my father. Basically, what we got back was, our lines were hacked, those charges are applicable.

WTF.

I was furious. This $H$T stressed me out so much throughout the summer, because my father depended on me to make these calls (large Canadian corporation like Primus is not going to take you seriously, unless you speak flawless English). 

It does not make sense to me. Say if a credit card was stolen. The purchases made on that card would go void, if the owner of the card indeed did not make those purchases. The insurance covers it. Owner of the card pays JACK. 

WTF.

Manager SJ. eventually called back after I made a few more complaints today (she was supposed to call me back last friday). She told me that she doesn't know why this fee went on Primus' invoice when it should've been on Sprint's....

I asked, so the fees are still applicable?!?!?

She said she doesn't know.

Then, I asked her why is it still applicable, when their company KNOWS that we didn't make these calls. This is either a glitch in their system, or someone hacked into my account, but either way, it doesn't make sense for these charges to be applicable. 

Then... she said "I'm not here to listen to your lectures..."

asked me if i had other questions, i said no, she said bye and hung up.

WTF...

what's your thought on this?


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## DoNotPokeTheScreen (Jun 9, 2005)

Just wondering if there are any Primus customers out there to confirm that Primus is actually this $%$tty or I'm in very bad luck.

But i mean... we've been using the phone since my dad escaped from communist china (1960s-70s)... and NEVER BEFORE there had any problems, and i mean ANY, with telephone service providers...


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## draz (Jun 13, 2005)

This is very simple. The service was sold on a verbal contrat that there was indeed no service fee for cancellation. There was a language barrier, and obviously from this latest charges on the account Primus is not keeping their books straight. 

Call back and explain this once again, state that after all this you are not willing to pay ANY of these fees, ( and that you are considering relaying this to the Toronto Star and the better business bureau.) Them telling you that you may be liable for a security breach in their service which had hundreds of dollars of long distance added to you account is unacceptable. Save the copy fo the bill with the fraugulent charges as proof of misconduct and send a copy to their Vp of customer service directly. And when you tell them that you will not pay, if they say they will send you to a collections agency (which they won't) actually take the story to the Star, and inform them that you have retained legal advice in relation to the fraudulent charges they are forcing upon you. (they will move quickly once they hear all of this) and will wipe it all out.

Explain to them calmly that this is a predatory business practice and not what was presented to your father as the conditions of the contract. 

I hate this stuff, but myself I have the time and resources to take these things to the next level. (what can i say, when it comes to contractual agreements, i bring out my big guns)


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## DoNotPokeTheScreen (Jun 9, 2005)

Thanks Draz. The problem is that wee don't have the time to deal with this... I am a student, i have to travel to Downtown 4 days a week... and the 3 remainder days i have to help out with the business. My dad is always busy, so it's out of the question. I am actually trying to seek advise from the police, to see if the police could actually help me out on this.

About the Star... do you think the star would actually be interested? can they actually help? can they actually let the public know about this misconduct that Primus is doing?

Thanks.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

DoNotPokeTheScreen said:


> About the Star... do you think the star would actually be interested? can they actually help? can they actually let the public know about this misconduct that Primus is doing?


The person that you are looking for at The Toronto Star is Ellen Roseman. She's their consumer advocacy columnist. Draz sounds like he knows what's going on. Good luck with Primus! They changed the terms of my l-d contract without telling me and I never looked at them again.


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## ThirtyOne (Jan 18, 2003)

Get a lawyer.

Most less-than-scrupulous managers at companies like these, or even managers who just plain don't want to deal with you out of laziness, will blow you off every time you call them on the phone. However, when their legal department gets a letter from an LLB all nice and formal, they will bend over backwards to settle the issue promptly and politely.

Any half-decent lawyer will be happy to send that letter for you, and deal with the company on your behalf for a reasonable fee. Whatever the lawyer will charge is almost surely less than what you will have to pay this company if you don't resolve the issue quickly. But do it before this company sends your file to a collection agency and declares your account delinquent putting a red mark on your credit rating, which I'm sure they will be doing soon, just to get rid of you.

Get a lawyer. You can go to the media, but you have no guarantee that The Star will be interested, or you can call the Better Business Bureau, but they can't really do much to help you, however letting them know that you mean business by sending them a proper and professional letter from an LLB is the quickest and easiest way to solve this.


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

in my experience, phone companies only hire scum bags. i was driven to VOIP by Bell's incompetence, fraud, and thievery.

if you want your money back you will have to talk to your MP and hire a lawyer. i just gave up, but they amount Bell stole from my bank account was significantly less.

don't think you can argue with reason to these people - you can't. the front line people are idiots and most don't know how to contact anyone other than their immediate supervisors, who are equally useless. they have a policy of not referring your case to management under any circumstances. they may give you five or six fax numbers if you push them really hard. if you fax these numbers to management with photocopied evidence of the theivery nothing will happen so don't waste your time.

go the legal route and don't waste any more energy trying to deal with the company directly. it will stress you out and you will get nowhere.


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

Ellen Roseman, good idea. The police are not interested. The CRTC or the competition bureau may help. The CRTC may also be able to tell you if there is an industry ombudsman, and what his powers are. 

Lawyer, bad idea. First of all, letters from lawyers do not impress people as much as some of you seem to think. Secondly, lawyers hourly fees are in the hundreds, it is simply not economically sound to retain a lawyer for this kind of money.

I suggets you write to the CEO of Primus. Be concise, polite and measured (i.e. don't rant). Apologise for troubling him, but you have had not other option because customer service has been unreasonable and obstructionist. Explain that your father was misled by the salesman, that you feel this was not ethical and surely contrary to Primus own policies and standards. Explain, finaly, that you are being billed for calls that were not made by you, from your premises, or while you were were a customer of primus. Ask him to confirm, within 7 days, that all of these charges are cancelled.

If this doesn't work, this letter willl be part of your ammunition to escalate your complaint elsewhere.


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## JumboJones (Feb 21, 2001)

Those scum bags called my wife and harassed her for well over a half hour, so she said yes to their long distance service just to get them off the phone. I didn't find out about this until I had Bell call me up and asked if I had agreed to this (the phone is in my name). I told them no, Bell told them too bad, and Primus sent my wife a big fat bill. I tried to call them and clear everything up, but couldn't because the account was in my wifes name. We decided to just pay the stupid thing to avoid a black mark on her credit, the kick in the ass was that the next month we received another bill for like 35 cents for interest. Bloody idiots, it probably cost them more to send that bill than it was worth, I just paid them a dollar just in case.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

You can also try Silverman at Pulse 24 who runs a show called "Silverman Helps".


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

You have made one good step already by posting this here. Make as much noise as you can. Be assured that Primus does not want to hear from you in the media - therefore go for as much media noise as possible: not just the star but every station and paper including neighbourhood weeklies. Also, this informs potential clients, something they do not want either.

The business must have a lawyer. Sometimes a lawyer's letter is all that is necessary. Primus doesn't want legal costs anymore than you do.

As for the "scum bags", you might want to be a little more careful. These people takes these jobs because they have limited option. They are mostly ordinary folk on otherwise hard times. Often their answers are less than accurate, ask for a supervisor, and if that doesn't do it ask for their supervisor.

But keep on screaming. I know (well!!) that it is time consuming, but there is little other option....

Calculate the time you have spent dealing with this, attach a fair hourly rate for this kind of work and invoice them. When they refuse to pay, yank 'em into small claims - I can almost guarantee that they will settle first.

Also, there is always the government regulators - inform them now and keep them informed. also, file a complaint with the better business bureau...

Best of luck

Edit: keep copies of everything, record conversations with Primus.... Gather you ammunition.


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## draz (Jun 13, 2005)

Or we can just burn Primus to the ground. ahahhhahahhahahahahh


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## miguelsanchez (Feb 1, 2005)

all good advice, but there is also a lesson to be learned: never sign *anything* without thoroughly reading it first. especially if you don't understand what it is your signing. the "salesperson's" word means very little, since the onus is on you to prove that he/she promised something verbally. ask the person selling to take it home and have someone else read it over for you. if it's legit he/she will understand and not pressure you to sign on the spot.

you have ten days to get out of an unsolicited contract (in ontario), but the best defense is not to sign any contract that someone offers you out of the blue.

i feel for your father because i know many people in similar situations who got taken advantage of because of language issues. there was a security-camera selling scam going on in toronto a few years ago where the business owner was offered a free trial of security cameras, no strings. but the paper they ended up signing was actually a contract to keep the cameras and service for a year, and the rates were astronomical. it ended up in small claims, but what a p.i.t.a. for those involved. and nothing happened to the camera guys.

this website has some good advice as well.

good luck,

miguel


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## mr.steevo (Jul 22, 2005)

Crap.

I just got my Primus box yesterday. I hope I don't get hosed by them.

s.


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## DoNotPokeTheScreen (Jun 9, 2005)

Thanks guys, tons of help, but it scares me because it seems like I have little options open.

You guys were saying I should look for Ellen Roseman and other media types RIGHT NOW? Before the Manager SJ has a chance to confirm if we have to pay this long distance fee?

Where could I find these phone numbers? The MP, VP, CEO of Primus, Ellen Roseman, Silverman, The Star... in the yellow pages?

The legal way would my the last option. I want to do everything that I could before having to pay a lawyer.


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## DoNotPokeTheScreen (Jun 9, 2005)

Just want to know thanks so much for your suggestions.

I have found Ellen Roseman's email, but should I email her now?


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

DoNotPokeTheScreen said:


> I have found Ellen Roseman's email, but should I email her now?


If the person you spoke to at Primus is looking into it, give him a reasonable chance. Then write the CEO. Then Roseman, etc., if necessary.


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## DoNotPokeTheScreen (Jun 9, 2005)

nxnw said:


> If the person you spoke to at Primus is looking into it, give him a reasonable chance. Then write the CEO. Then Roseman, etc., if necessary.


Yes, that's true, but the manager SJ's reply to me gives me an impression that I would HAVE to pay this long distance amount to EITHER Primus or Sprint. The money is out of my pocket for sure, but don't know if it's going into Primus' or Sprint's big fat wallet.


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## miguelsanchez (Feb 1, 2005)

DoNotPokeTheScreen said:


> Yes, that's true, but the manager SJ's reply to me gives me an impression that I would HAVE to pay this long distance amount to EITHER Primus or Sprint. The money is out of my pocket for sure, but don't know if it's going into Primus' or Sprint's big fat wallet.


did you make the calls? no? then why would you have to pay it? no money has left your pocket yet, so what are you worried about? 



> calls to Whitby, Pakistan, Norway, and Sweden. We did not make those calls. Some of those calls were made at times when the business is closed. Those calls were made on June 3rd, but we've switched to Sprint in April!!! We have NOT been using Primus' service since APRIL!!!


if you've got your papers in order then you can prove all of this. 

the worst they can do is sue you for the money in small claims court. in all probability they will sell their debt to a collection agency at a loss and let the collection agency recover the money. 

if the s.j. guy doesn't get back to you when he said he would, start going to the media. forget the ceo, you probably won't get anywhere with him/her.

just my $0.02. you can add it to your bill.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

DoNotPokeTheScreen said:


> Yes, that's true, but the manager SJ's reply to me gives me an impression that I would HAVE to pay this long distance amount to EITHER Primus or Sprint. The money is out of my pocket for sure, but don't know if it's going into Primus' or Sprint's big fat wallet.


This doesn't make any sense!

The long distance bill came from Primus. right? But you were no longer with Primus when it happened. So obviously a mistake on their part.
You didn't get a bill from Sprint for those calls...so why would primus think you need to pay Sprint?

I think you need to separate the cancellation charges and the LD charges and look at each issue separately.
On the cancellation charges - have you read through the contract to see exactly what it says? $652.- in cancellation fees doesn't sound reasonable, although I don't know what kind of service you had.
Also, does the bill with the cancellation fees spell out the date when the service with Primus was cancelled? That may help you with your long distance charges if they occured after the cancellation date.

Contesting LD charges is unfortunately pretty difficult. The phone company (any phone company) makes it very clear that one is liable for all charges made from a registered phone...errors made by the billing system, at least with Bell, are essentially non-existant. In your case, if the switch date to Sprint is before the LD charges were incurred...that should be the end of that discussion.

For the future you may think about having all your overseas direct dial Long Distance blocked and use a pre-paid 'dial-around' service for those. I started this about a year ago - I put $20.- into the LD kitty with the provider; everytime I use it, I get a voice announcement of how much I have left in the account. When it gets down to one or two dollars, I fill it back up with $20 from my credit card. the most I can ever loose that way is $20.-


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## DoNotPokeTheScreen (Jun 9, 2005)

miguelsanchez said:


> did you make the calls? no? then why would you have to pay it? no money has left your pocket yet, so what are you worried about?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lol thanks for the two cents.

Hm, true, i wouldn't worry AT ALL if they're going to sue me for it. They are the wrong-doers, and we can proof that.

The thing is, we don't want to start the lawsuit, we don't want to pay lawyers (can't afford it! this small business doesn't generate enough money!). It is my last option to get a lawyer.

Media is a good idea. I really think Primus is doing something VERY WRONG here, and it doesn't seem like i'm the only one, I've heard some guy ranting about Primus on the radio just a few days ago. They over charged him a couple hundred dollars.

The idea of collector's agency really frightens me. What do they do? would they burn my house down (seriously)? What extent do they go to get their money? Should I let me media know BEFORE or AFTER they get the collector's agency?

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhh i'm gonna friggin' pull my hair out


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

DoNotPokeTheScreen said:


> The idea of collector's agency really frightens me. What do they do? would they burn my house down (seriously)? What extent do they go to get their money? Should I let me media know BEFORE or AFTER they get the collector's agency?
> AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhh i'm gonna friggin' pull my hair out


The problem with the collection agency is that it affects your credit rating and getting that corrected, even after you 'win' this case, is an uphill battle. 
If possible you don't want to go there, especially with a small business where you may want to apply for a loan in the future.


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## DoNotPokeTheScreen (Jun 9, 2005)

Thanks guys... 

I'm off to school now (lectures at night... IN DOWNTOWN grrr...)

i'll get back to you guys when i'm done school.

Thanks a whole bunch!!!


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## miguelsanchez (Feb 1, 2005)

don't worry too much about collection agencies. their entire goal in life is to scare you into paying. they will send threatening letters, make threatening phone calls, but that's about it. 

the way it works is, let's say you owe $1000 to a company, say primus. they "sell" that debt to the collection agency for some amount at a loss, say $500. the collection agency then tries to collect on the full $1000. they usually scare/harrass people into paying, by threatening poor credit ratings, etc. but if you are firm and stand your ground/change your phone number/screen your calls, there is not much more they can do. 

sometimes they will break down and try to settle for some amount less than the full $1000, to make it seem like they're going easy on you. 

after a while, especially if the amount owing is small, they will write you off as a loss and work on the next guy.


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## däycüs mäximüs (Nov 30, 2002)

at first i thought it was the 90s band, primus.

then i find out it's much worse.

good luck.


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

DoNotPokeTheScreen said:


> .......I've heard some guy ranting about Primus on the radio just a few days ago. They over charged him a couple hundred dollars.....t


I might be worth tracking the guy down (call the station - they have records)..


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## Cameo (Aug 3, 2004)

Bell mobility stinks too. - I had phoned them to tell them that the $55.00 overdue would be paid at a certain date and they tell me I owe them $520.00. Three weeks before my contract runs out THEY cancel it. Since they cancelled it I owe them penalty fees - there were two lines. Money grab to me.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Bell Mobility is very inconsistent with their billings and credits. We got double charged for a total bill of $42, so after a few frustrating calls, they finally credited our account back the $42.........twice. Being an honest person that I am, I called up to tell them of their mistake. The person at the other end was somewhat "snarky", and basically told me that they did NOT make a mistake, and that I was given what I was owed. I have a feeling that she misunderstood what I was trying to tell her, and I figure that the person who made the mistake will eventually find the miscue. Still, Bell Mobility now has them owing us $42 on our statement.


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## DoNotPokeTheScreen (Jun 9, 2005)

wow... so from what you guys are saying... I could just totally ignore Primus on the 1280 dollars and continue using Sprint.

The downsides are, of course, bad credit ratings and tons of phone calls and letters.

Just how bad are the bad ratings are going to be? how is it going to affect our lives?


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

It would be good if you can provide some specific details and an accurate timeline of the events. I just looked at your first post again, it provides a general overview of the situation, but not enough to suggest your next course of action.
Questions that come to mind
1. How long was the 'Primus' contract period that your father signed
2. When was the contract signed and became effective
3. What penalty clause is in the contract if you terminate early
4. When did you sign up with Sprint?
5. When does Primus 'think' you terminated their contract?
6. When were the phone calls made that you contest?
7. When did Primus send you a bill for the termination charges?
8. When did Primus send you a bill for the telephone charges?

If you have a clear timeline and an understanding of your (and Primus') obligation under their contract, the next course of action becomes a bit easier to figure out.
It may well be to totally ignore Primus...but I wouldn't do that without at least sending something back in writing, preferably registered, that you reject their billing and why.

As far as the bad credit rating is concerned, if that actually happens, it's only an issue if you ever want to make use of credit in the future...ie new credit card, Line of Credit, mortgage..whatever. With a bad rating you pay higher interest charges and in the worst case get credit denied or the amount of credit you can get is limited.


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## miguelsanchez (Feb 1, 2005)

also, if it does go to a collection agency, i believe that your credit rating can't be affected since the "debt" was paid by the collection agency, and they are hoping to recover that money and more from you. i don't think that you can have bad credit by not paying a collection agency.

someone with credit experience i.e. in banking please correct me if i'm wrong.

also, read this for information from the collection agencies act (ontario). it should help you out.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

miguelsanchez said:


> also, if it does go to a collection agency, i believe that your credit rating can't be affected since the "debt" was paid by the collection agency, and they are hoping to recover that money and more from you. i don't think that you can have bad credit by not paying a collection agency.
> 
> someone with credit experience i.e. in banking please correct me if i'm wrong.


Interesting point! I would like to get a definitive answer on that myself.

I would find it a bit odd if that was in fact true, but stranger things have happened.
Also one could argue that the 'debt to Primus' was not paid in full since, as someone already mentioned, a collection agency would have paid only a portion of what you owe...and it's probably a small portion since they need to make money as well.


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## DoNotPokeTheScreen (Jun 9, 2005)

interesting info Miguel.

What's everybody's thought on that?


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

I guess we have no lawyers or bankers in the crowd.
If you look at the credit ratings which I copied below, there is actually one that relates to the debt being placed with a collection agency.
Just keep scanning down...right at the bottom.


> R0 Too new to rate; approved but not used
> R1 Pays within 30 days of billing, or pays as agreed
> R2 Pays in more than 30 days but less than 60 or one payment past due
> R3	Pays in more than 60 days but less than 90 or two payments past due
> ...


Doesn't look too good to me.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Primus sucks, end of story. I had Primus before and there were a few times when I would make a phone call and it would go through... to a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PERSON in a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT COUNTRY.... and my finacee would receive a call from SOMEONE ELSE who was probably trying to call the person I ended up getting. Too bad I can't warn the other poor souls about Primus...


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## DoNotPokeTheScreen (Jun 9, 2005)

argh... so this isn't good. Can't just not pay and let them hand it over to collection agency.

SJ (the manager) is a complete B#$%#, she has no ethics, she doesn't give a damn if she KNOWS what Primus and her are doing is utterly wrong. I think i'll eventually have to take this to court...

Any guess on how much we will have to spend on laywers?


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

miguelsanchez said:


> also, if it does go to a collection agency, i believe that your credit rating can't be affected since the "debt" was paid by the collection agency, and they are hoping to recover that money and more from you. i don't think that you can have bad credit by not paying a collection agency.


This is about as wrong as it can be! See Forum rule re: disseminating *inaccurate* information 

The debt isn't *paid by* by the collector, it is *sold to* the collector by the ceditor for something on the dollar. The face value vis a vis the creditee has not changed. A debt to a collector, is a debt like any other.... As far as your credit report goes, this is just about the worst possible category to be in.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

DoNotPokeTheScreen said:


> argh... so this isn't good. Can't just not pay and let them hand it over to collection agency.
> 
> SJ (the manager) is a complete B#$%#, she has no ethics, she doesn't give a damn if she KNOWS what Primus and her are doing is utterly wrong. I think i'll eventually have to take this to court...
> 
> Any guess on how much we will have to spend on laywers?


If you took the few minutes and posted all the facts with dates etc., people here could give you some advice what to do and what not to do.
Right now we're groping around in the dark.


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

DoNotPokeTheScreen said:


> Any guess on how much we will have to spend on laywers?


Check the Upper Canada Law Society. You can get an initial consultation (1hr/0.5hr, I'm not sure which) for *FREE*......... This service served me very well once upon a time (a long story for another time and place)... 

You *MUST* assemble your facts (document, document, document!!!): be especially clear about time line. Once that is done, and only once it is done (in order to get full value for your free time) call up the law society. 



DoNotPokeTheScreen said:


> SJ (the manager) is a complete B#$%#, she has no ethics, she doesn't give a damn...


This kind of stuff is not at all germaine to your case. Expunge (my word of the day, BTW) such comments from your notes. Personalities are of no interest to the courts.

Forums are good place to gather ideas but there are way too many 'I believe's and 'I am almost sure's for a subject like this. Here we see the other side of forums, namely what I refer to as the *pooling of ignorance* like the comment of miguelsanchez, above, that your credit can't be harmed by being in collection - a comment staggering in its lack of understanding. The words 'I believe' ought to be a red flag.... I again direct attention to the ehMac rules which specifically speak against _inaccurate_ information.

This a serious matter. Your (the businesses if incorporated) credit is likely already screwed and will remain that way until you find out what your real position is. Get a lawyer! If the business is incorporated (I hope it is in this case) you already have a connection to a lawyer.... As for costs: if the other side is wrong then they will be assessed costs (as in yours).


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

KRS, I can't speak for the laws in ON, but what rgray states is similar to what it is here in NL. Phone company debts are disasterous to one's credit rating, along with bills to electrical utilities. So, be very cautious about this debt.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

DrG -

I think laws are pretty similar across Canada with the notable exception of Quebec.

As to credit ratings - I was a bit surprised when I finally clued in to the fact there was such a thing with equifax and got a copy of mine.

A lot of places where you do have "credit" are not even listed. The phone company was one of them, so was Ontario Hydro. I found that odd.
Also, the only thing that seems to matter is when you pay the bill - if the payment is late through no fault of your own - ie the bill didn't get mailed out in time...that doesn't matter.
You also find that debts that were paid off long ago may still be listed simply because the company you had the 'debt' with, ie a mortgage or carloan, never notified Equifax that the loan was paid.
The one key thing you don't get when you request your 'free' credit report is your FICO score - that's really the most relevant since that's what companies use to assess your 'creditworthyness.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I saw my credit rating at my local CIBC. They were not supposed to show me, but the person did when I asked to see what comprised this rating. I went from the top rating to just below the top rating when I remarried. I had paid off a morgage and two big loans, along with NEVER paying credit card interest, or being late with any sort of utility or other credit card payment. I am VERY conscious of this who idea of credit rating, and since I have heard horror stories about one bad situation (such as yours), I don't fool around with this system. I don't approve of it, but I can't fight it so I try to keep to the "straight and narrow". Good luck.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

Strange - it was at CIBC as well, quite a few years ago, where I had my first experience with the credit bureau. CIBC talked me into opening a Line of Credit...sounded like a pretty good idea. The CIBC manager at the time pulled up my credit file on his computer and asked me about my mortgage. That however had been paid off years ago, but it still showed on my file as an outstanding debt.
Comment from him (which I also found a bit odd): oh, that happens all the time. We look at your credit file but don't take it too seriously because of the typical errors in it.  
Makes you wonder what the purpose of a credit file is if it's not kept up-to-date. I know now I'm supposed to get a copy of it every year and make sure it's correct but nobody ever tells you that.
I suppose if I had debts with a collection agency, CIBC would have looked at it a bit differently.


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## btqt (Dec 18, 2008)

*Primus can't provide the esrvise they advertise*

If you're lucky, you'll find a rep that will truthfully and knowledgably answer your questions and perhaps even solve your problem.

I get a max download speed of 1.3Mbps when paying for "up to" 7Mbps. This has been going on ever since I signed up in Sept 2008. They have admitted they have a "saturation problem" in my area, are working on it, but can't estimate when the problem will be resolved. They have also stated other people in my area have the same problem. 

Since they won't release me from my contract without penalty and will not warn you of the service problems when you sign on, all I can do is try to prevent others from making the same mistake. Primus advertises "up to" 7Mbps downloads and believe there is nothing wrong with providing less than 25% of what was promised and are not interested in keeping their customers happy. I believe Primus will go out of business in the near future as current customers leave and potential customers are educated about Primus lack-of customer service.

Customer service is no better. After signing up, I expected my modem within a couple weeks. When that time had passed, I called to see if uit had been sent and was told it would be there in a couple days. After a couple days, I called back and was told the same thing. It wasn't until the fourth or fifth time I called that a CSR told me they had not wireless modems to send and asked if I would be interested in a wire modem. So - the followin call to Primus customer service was to correct the billing because they continued to bill me for the wireless modem.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

You joined to slag a phone company?

Think Mac, willya!


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## btqt (Dec 18, 2008)

SINC said:


> You joined to slag a phone company?
> 
> Think Mac, willya!


I joined to keep people from making the same mistake I did when I agreed to a Primus 12 month contract. I will continue to send out this message until they realize that waiving a $100 cancellation fee would have been less expensive than loss in future sales due to a unsatisfied customer. 

Regarding one of your other replies while you were stalking me last night - I don't need spell check because I have you.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

btqt said:


> I joined to keep people from making the same mistake I did when I agreed to a Primus 12 month contract. I will continue to send out this message until they realize that waiving a $100 cancellation fee would have been less expensive than loss in future sales due to a unsatisfied customer.
> 
> Regarding one of your other replies while you were stalking me last night - I don't need spell check because I have you.


All I can deduct from your posts is that you are an angry, bitter person over a lousy $100. Swallow it, move on and save yourself an ulcer. You are not the first nor the last to face a cancellation fee from ANY company. That was no "mistake", you signed the contract that allowed it, remember?

Besides it is a poor reason to join a Mac forum to post personal rants that mean nothing to 90% of board members.


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## btqt (Dec 18, 2008)

SINC said:


> All I can deduct from your posts is that you are an angry, bitter person over a lousy $100. Swallow it, move on and save yourself an ulcer. You are not the first nor the last to face a cancellation fee from ANY company. That was no "mistake", you signed the contract that allowed it, remember?
> 
> Besides it is a poor reason to join a Mac forum to post personal rants that mean nothing to 90% of board members.


I'll keep this simple because there is no need to read between the lines. 
PRIMUS STINKS - 1280 dollar phone bill is the title of the thread and I added my comments based on the frist page. 

You have selectively chosen to skip the first sentence of the third paragragh. The fact is Primus is overselling their service, pocketing the cash, and throttling downloads to compensate. This could be considered fraudulent. Now I hope similar situations don't happen to you. As long as they do occur and people don't communicate these facts, companies will not improve. BTW - thanks for your concern for my health and morale - but I'm ok.


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