# Challenge for MacNutt (round 2)



## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

Last election, I challenged MacNutt to do something: tell us why we should vote Conservative without trashing the liberals. Someone else jumped the gun, though, and ruined it (and when MacNutt responded, he still trashed the liberals).

So here is the challenge again. MacNutt, you are hereby challenged to tell us all why we should vote Conservative, without mentioning the Liberals or any other party.

To re-iterate, I want to hear why we should vote for your party, not why not to vote for anyone else.

Everyone else, please, let MacNutt field the challenge. 

Is there a prize for answering the challenge? Yes! Some of us will stop thinking of you as so much of a blow hard. I'll say "good job, you've given me something to think about." And last, but not least, it'll give us a chance to debate the Conservative platform as an alternative, rather than just hear more "LIBERALS CORRUPT" screaming from the right hand side of the room.

So, have at 'er.


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## Fink-Nottle (Feb 25, 2001)

Well PosterBoy, I'm very sorry for "ruining it" last time by articulating as best I could my reasons for supporting the Conservatives in the last election. It seems to me you're not actually looking for a discussion of the issues but instead you just want a chance to needle MacNutt. If so, why not do it privately and rejoin us here when you'd like an actual discussion? 

"Great people talk about ideas. Small people talk about other people."
Tobias S Gibson


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

No matter what argument is presented, it can all be undone by one simple word: Harper.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

No, I just like to give MacNutt the chance to prove he's not a blowhard.

I have nothing against you for being able to cogently articulate your reasons for voting Conservative, and "ruining" may be too harsh way to articulate what I meant, but last time I asked the guy who constantly says "Liberals Bad!" to tell me why the Conservatives are good and you jumped in.

One man's "needling" is another man's "asking him to pony up."

You're right in that I'm not specifically looking to discuss issues, rather I am looking for MacNutt to discuss them.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

PB, just wait. MacNutt may surprise you. We shall see.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

Dr.G. said:


> PB, just wait. MacNutt may surprise you. We shall see.


I certainly hope so.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Fink-Nottle said:


> Well PosterBoy, I'm very sorry for "ruining it" last time by articulating as best I could my reasons for supporting the Conservatives in the last election. It seems to me you're not actually looking for a discussion of the issues but instead you just want a chance to needle MacNutt. If so, why not do it privately and rejoin us here when you'd like an actual discussion?
> 
> "Great people talk about ideas. Small people talk about other people."
> Tobias S Gibson


well said


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

I think there are some people getting a little too high on themselves. Let MacNutt defend himself. PB has done nothing wrong... he's thrown down the gauntlet.

Get over it, and yourselves kids. Let Macnutt deal with it.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Fink-Nottle said:


> If so, why not do it privately and rejoin us here when you'd like an actual discussion?


That would seem to be the best idea, but to each their own I guess.
While we're waiting for MacNutt, anybody want to have a group sing-a-long?


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Beej said:


> While we're waiting for MacNutt, anybody want to have a group sing-a-long?


Which song? How about _99 bottles of beer on the Wall_?


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## draz (Jun 13, 2005)

If i wanted to see politics i would be reading todays Globe or talking to my secretary...i come here to geek out and talk about why the G5 totally rocks the P4 etc etc.

My copy of Aperture was just delivered to the office...sweet ....and i just upped my G5 to over 5 gigs of ram Boorah...


what were we talking about....


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

« MannyP Design » said:


> Which song? How about _99 bottles of beer on the Wall_?


Shouldn't that be "99 bottles of water on the wall"? :lmao:

(Like the new smilies) :clap: :baby: :-( :yikes: :love2: :heybaby:


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## Chealion (Jan 16, 2001)

98 bottles of water on the wall...
98 bottles of water on the wall...
Take one down,
Pass it around...


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Chealion said:


> 98 bottles of water on the wall...
> 98 bottles of water on the wall...
> Take one down,
> Pass it around...


97 bottles of water on the wall...
97 bottles of water on the wall...
Take one down,
Pass it around...

Okay... I'm kidding... let's not do this... we're not going to are we? Oh god, what have I done? :yikes:


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

« MannyP Design » said:


> Oh god, what have I done? :yikes:


Probably nothing. 

96 bottles of water on the wall...
96 bottles of water on the wall...
Take one down,
Pass it around...


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

95 bottles of water on the wall...
95 bottles of water on the wall...
Take one down,
Pass it around...


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## draz (Jun 13, 2005)

Its no wonder that users get these multi tousand post counts when you can spend 1 single afternoon firing off sing-a-longs...adn end up with 900 posts...



Oh screw it...

94 bottles of beer on the wall...


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

draz said:


> Oh screw it...
> 
> 94 bottles of beer on the wall...


That's the spirit!


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## comprehab (May 28, 2005)

93 bottles of the purest spring water on the wall....


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

Hey for once when MacNutt shows up he'll be responsible for taking the thread back on topic ... so ... (clears throat) ahem (and sings) ... _mi, mi, mi, mi_

92 bottles of water on the wall...
92 bottles of water ...
Take one down,
Pass it around ...


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

oh what the hell
i'll be a lemming...

91 bottles of water on the wall...
91 bottles of water ...
Take one down,
Pass it around ...


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## mr.steevo (Jul 22, 2005)

draz said:


> If i wanted to see politics i would be reading todays Globe or talking to my secretary...i come here to geek out and talk about why the G5 totally rocks the P4 etc etc.
> 
> My copy of Aperture was just delivered to the office...sweet ....and i just upped my G5 to over 5 gigs of ram Boorah...
> 
> ...


If you want to talk about G5's and all that there is the rest of the forum. This thread is about the conservatives. I am interested in hearing about them from MacNutt as all I every hear is "they're great" or "they're evil"

90 bottles of beer on the wall...


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

89 bottles of beer on the wall
89 bottles of beer
Take one down,
Pass it around (to MacNutt)


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

An excellent challenge, Posterboy! But do you really expect him to respond in a timely manner?

88 bottles of beer on the wall
88 bottles of beer
Take one down,
Pass it around...


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## robert (Sep 26, 2002)

One would hope so before we get down to one bottle!

87 bottles of beer/water on the wall
87 bottles of beer/water
Take one down,
Pass it around...


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## sccoaire (Feb 11, 2005)

Eh, this is fun!

86 bottles of water on the wall...
86 bottles of water ...
Take one down,
Pass it around ...


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## iNeedhelp (Oct 23, 2005)

Where's this big response by Macnutt everyone's waiting for?

85 bottles of water on the wall...
85 bottles of water on the wall...
Take one down,
Pass it around...


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

Every time we have one of these Challenge Macnutt threads everyone but the invited guest of honour ends up posting. And when he finally does it'll be a totally off-topic shambles. 

Y'all have been drinking a lot of water this evening -- must be time for a bathroom break by now, eh?


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

We're all waiting for the next coming of the Sage.

84 bottles of water on the wall ...
84 bottles of water ...
Take one down,
Pass it around ...


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Okay...here goes:

(you might want to fasten your seatbelts here. there may be some serious turbulence ahead)

-The Canadian Conservative Party...which is certainly NOT the now-defunct old "PC" party of Canada....was born out of a grassroots movement from the dissafected west. Its started not long after a western seperatist party got it's first seat in Parliament, oddly enough.

The Canadian Conservative Party started out as the "Reform Party" under Preston Manning. And it became wildly popular out here when it announced that it was determined to become a force in Ottawa, and was also determined to clean up the well-publicised excesses and corruption that we have all heard so much about in our nations capital. The Reform Party was bound and determined to re-make Canada into a true democracy (it isn't one at this point...despite whatever you may have been told) and was also detremined to end the silly nonsense and ineffectual money wasting that goes on at the highest levels in what we (and most of the rest of the world) jokingly refer to as "Canadian Politics".

In short, the Reform party was determined to "clean house" and make things right. Once and for all. They would give us a sober and seperately elected second body to vet all major decisions...one that could investigate and remove any publicly-paid officials who were caught stealing from canadian taxpayers, right up to the PM himself. And they would also rebuild all of our wasted national institutions like the military and the judiciary. They would also show the seperatists in Quebec that there WAS actually a line that could not be crossed, and that there would not always be an instant pipeline of free cash flowing to them whenever they threatened to walk away from the table.

The Reform Party also promised to balance the budget and to eliminate the massive overspending that had characterised all of the sucessive Liberal Governments for so many years. They also planned on fixing health care so it actually WORKED, too.

Everyone around here cheered. The east laughed and jeered. And predicted a rapid end to this silly little dissafected western splinter group with the wild and crazy ideas..

During Question Period, the Chretien/Martin Liberals made loud fun of each "crazy" new idea that the newbie western Reform Party put forward. Totally ridiculed them. Loudly and publicly.

Then...shortly afterward...they adopted several of these new ideas as if they were their own. And the new ideas WORKED!

Big surprise.

And the old time Liberals ALSO found that these new right-wing western ideas from the Reform Party, when coupled with some of the older right wing policies that they had adopted from the now-defunct PC party (Free Trade under NAFTA and the GST) gave rise to an unprecedented wave of total nationwide prosperity and good times. Ones that they could point to as if they were their OWN ideas...

(and a sweeping wave of prosperity that carried with it MANY opportunities for a serious skim of cash into their own pockets. Think Tony Soprano here...)

Welll guess what? They just WENT with it! Said one thing...and did another. And walked happily to the bank (caribbean offshore banks, mostly).

Sooo...the Reform Party's influence grew, and their ideas were vindicated. And proven correct. By the ruling Liberal Party, no less. :clap: 

Fast forward to the present day:

The Reform Party has merged and morphed with other right-of-center parties into the Canadian Conservative Party. And they are now only a hairsbreadth away from forming the next government of Canada. Based, mostly, on their clear objectives and good sound ideas.

On the other hand...the current ruling party of Canada is old and rotten to the core and rife with scandals. They are also deeply corrupt, by all accounts. This party is deeply wounded and fighting for it's very political life right now. If it doesn't die in this election...then it probably WILL in the next one. A clear majority of Canadians absoloutely HATE the Liberals with a passion, and want them out of power. ASAP.

Do you want yet another short stint of non-democracy in this lovely country of ours? And a whole BUNCH more scandals, as well? Do you REALLY want to delay the the inevitable change?

Then vote Liberal. One last time. (and watch them break every single promise they ever made while campaigning for your vote. While fattening up their own personal bank accounts for a few more years. At YOUR expense.)

Want to watch lifelong hardened criminals continue to walk free to repeat their crimes against all of us? Over and OVER again? Want to shake your heads in amazement at the softness of the Liberal-appointed Canadian judiciary? Time and time again? While poilitical organised crime Liberal Party types ALSO get off scot free? (ohhh..what a surprise...)

Then vote for The Federal Liberals under Paul Martin.

He and his people will never change any of this. They never have. Never will.

Want a real democracy here in Canada for a change? Want a real seperately elected Senate that can investigate ANY political party and, if necessary, remove them from power or call an election?

You certainly won't get that from the Federal Liberals. They prefer a single day of democracy, followed by total control and TOTAL power over everything for the next four or five years at a stretch.

Which is why Canada is not listed as a true democracy. We live in a conditional dictatorship. We elect our dictator once every few years...and then give him total power over all of us.

HE decides when the right time is for the next election. And HE and his party are free to loot and pillage as they want, during the period in between elections. They control the police, and appoint the Judges. The "Ethics Commisioner" (the guy who watches over the antics of the elected representatives from the ruling party) reports directly to the Prime Minister's office!! Our "elected" (by a one-third of the majority vote, or less) Prime Minister and his political party totally control the judges and the national police force and even the senate. They APPOINT them, actually!

They sign their paychecks. Control their futures. They are their masters.

Gee...do ya suppose that these people MIGHT just be a bit beholdin to the party in power??

Do ya THINK???

Like it or not...that's just the way it is, here in Canada, halfway through the first decade of the 21st century.

The current version of Canada seems a bit like a third world banana republic from the seventies to me (and it seems that way to lots of others around the world, as well)...but, then again, I have had some experience living in banana republics under tyrants who only called elections once or twice per decade. And then did just EXACTLY whatever they wanted to do, in the intervening years.

I notice this stuff. It BUGS me! And want to change it.

Some others here don't seem to notice it at all. And some of them seem to be shaking in fear, at the very thought of changing it. (clinging to the past, no doubt)

I say "Buck UP!!" Dump the old crooks and leave them back in the past where they belong. (or put em in jail...where they REALLY belong).

And then move into the future. You know it works. You know the old ways DON'T work.

Bottom line here:

DON'T VOTE LIBERAL!!!

Vote ANYTHING but Liberal!

Unless you want more of the "same-old same-old"

Enough of THAT!


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Here was the challenge:



> So here is the challenge again. MacNutt, you are hereby challenged to tell us all why we should vote Conservative, *without mentioning the Liberals* or any other party.
> 
> To re-iterate, I want to hear why we should vote for your party, not why not to vote for anyone else.


ER... I'd have to give you a grade of

*F-*


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## iPetie (Nov 25, 2003)

Amazing, the challenge was to provide reasons to vote for the Conservatives without bashing the Liberals. You have failed to outline any type of constructive policy driven argument miserably.
It's not your fault though Macnutt, because it doesn't exist.

You're precisely the type of voter the Cons are courting. An easy vote because you fall for the old "The Liberals are Corrupt" spin. Hook, line and sinker!


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I have outlined just EXACTLY how the Canadian Conservative Party would effect serious and sweeping changes that would transform Canada into a true democracy for the very first time in history.

And how they would most likely alter the judiciary and the senate and ebven the national Police force to set up a system of checks and balances that would prevent any of the multitude of current Liberal Scandals from ever happening again. They've sworn to do this. On a stack of bibles. For about fifteen years now.

Is this NOT a "very valid reason" to vote against the tired old Liberals? And vote FOR the Canadian Conservative Party?

Or...do you just want yet another re-hash of the "same-old-same-old"?? For a few months more.

Until they are once again overwhelmed and defeated? :yawn:

Time to move on.


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## Chealion (Jan 16, 2001)

Macnutt - I think the point is not that the Liberals have been a bunch of crooks, but to see that the Conservatives are a better alternative then say the NDP.

In other words why should I vote Conservative instead of NDP or the Green Party?


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## Kazak (Jan 19, 2004)

Damn. Always late to the party.

Um . . . 85 bottles of . . . oh, never mind.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Short answer here. Cut to the chase....

-The Canadian Conservative Party, born out of the wildly popular grassroots movement called the "Reform Party"...will change Canada from a long-term Ottawa kleptocracy (where all of the principals seem to think that they deserve a "cut" of the action when taxpayers money is involved, and are ready willing and able to steal anything that isn't tied down)...

...Into a real democracy. One with a second sober and seperately elected body to watch over the party in power. (an "Effective, Elected, and Equal Senate).

They have also, just recently, committed themselves to setting up a totally independent ethics commissioner. In order to replace the lapdog one that currently is hired and paid by...and reports ONLY to...the Prime Ministers office.

Orrr...you can stay with what we've got right now.

Empty promises. Massive scandals. A politically-appointed judiciary that flushes all of the long-term criminals back out onto the streets to commit even more crimes. Huge long-term theft of Canadian taxpayers money. With NO remorse.

Innefectual and even CRIMINAL leadership. At the highest level.

Your choice.:yikes:


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## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> Hey for once when MacNutt shows up he'll be responsible for taking the thread back on topic ... so ... (clears throat) ahem (and sings) ... _mi, mi, mi, mi_
> 
> 92 bottles of water on the wall...
> 92 bottles of water ...
> ...


Actually, he'll probably tell us all that HIS bottled water is the best to be passed around :yawn: 

Draz, if you're only into talkin' Mac stuff then why are you in this forum? I'm the same as you, an I NEVER come into "Everything Else" (save for this moment).


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Wow even when given a second chance, MacNutt you can even answer in a coherent and logical manner...


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

the reality of the new Canadian political landscape is thus;

majority gov't (and therfore "sweeping" change) won't be happening any time soon
the Bloc has firmly rooted support and as long as they take 40+ seats in Quebec nobody is going to form a majority gov't

minority gov't means "comprimise" or elections or both

and that's just the way it is (with apologies to Walter Cronkite)


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Clear and decisive commitment to REFORM all of our old tired and corrupt Ottawa asytems into something that will actually WORK!

This is the promise of the Canadian Conservative Party. They've been saying exactly THIS...in no uncertain terms...for about a decade or two.

The Federal Liberals, on the other hand....under Chretien and Martin, have not ever touched on any of these reforms. Instead...they continue to blow hot air around while making their usual empty pre-election promises.

Once the Liberals are safely back into power, they will resume their giant skim. And forget ALL of what they had promised to do during the election campaign.

Orrr...perhaps they might take a page out of Jean Chretien's book of tricks and claim that it was all just a big sloppy "slip of the tongue". Not a campaign promise at all.:yikes:


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

MacNutt said:


> Clear and decisive commitment to REFORM all of our old tired and corrupt Ottawa asytems into something that will actually WORK!


Can't wait for Harper to start articulating some of those ideas - wait gay rights was more important to him today....


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Harper and the Canadian Conservative Party have been saying EXACTLY this...for about two decades now.

And the Federal Liberals have been cherry-picking certain policies from the Reform/Conservative platform... and adopting them as their own. For about two decades now.

This was AFTER they had already spent some serious time ridiculing these Reform/Conservative policies in Parliament, BTW.

Harper and his party stand on the very same principles and policies that they have had in effect since the early nineties. They are REAL. They make sense.,

The Liberals, on the other hand, have broken promises and tossed out ideals and then turned 180 degrees and adopted bright ideas from the Conservatives to no end.

Åll the while stealing from us...on a grand scale

Who would YOU vote for??

:-(


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

MacNutt said:


> The Liberals, on the other hand, have broken promises and tossed out ideals and then turned 180 degrees and adopted bright ideas from the Conservatives to no end.
> 
> All the while stealing from us...on a grand scale


That fine line between reality and fantasy that you surf gets blurrier everyday, no?

The preview of the Gomery report said what again about Paul Martin?


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

And here I was hoping for a surprise.

*sigh*

I'd say more, but I've honestly got other stuff to do.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Wow... what a train wreck. :yikes:


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

« MannyP Design » said:


> Wow... what a train wreck. :yikes:


Just like Liza Minnelli, only different.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

The Doug said:


> Just like Liza Minnelli, only different.


LOL. Sounds like a punchline is coming. Okay... I'll bite. Which part is different? :lmao:


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

This is precisely what's screwed up about Ottawa. If the opposition parties can only define themselves in terms of what they do not stand for, then the incumbant will always win (since the Liberals are not stupid enough to say they stand for corruption and croneyism, etc, etc). The simple fact is that the entire political system is viewed as corrupt. Most people do not think that the Conservatives and NDP would be immune to the lapses of the Liberal Party - because they haven't been in the past. THAT is why tar and feathering the Liberals for their shortcomings is not what is going to sway votes.

So why are Conservative supporters unable to articulate reasons for voting Conservative that do not depend upon trashing the Liberals? Because they know that many of the policies are not in step with those of many Canadians. Those that are (e.g the 1% drop in GST) typically favour the rich when the analysis is done.

The level of debate in the election so far from each of the leaders suggests that no one has learned anything. We will get the governance we deserve.....

P.S. Nice bait PosterBoy but whaddya expect?


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

As the KGB said, I hoped for the best but expected the worst.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

used to be jwoodget said:


> This is precisely what's screwed up about Ottawa. If the opposition parties can only define themselves in terms of what they do not stand for, then the incumbant will always win (since the Liberals are not stupid enough to say they stand for corruption and croneyism, etc, etc). The simple fact is that the entire political system is viewed as corrupt. Most people do not think that the Conservatives and NDP would be immune to the lapses of the Liberal Party - because they haven't been in the past. THAT is why tar and feathering the Liberals for their shortcomings is not what is going to sway votes.
> 
> So why are Conservative supporters unable to articulate reasons for voting Conservative that do not depend upon trashing the Liberals? Because they know that many of the policies are not in step with those of many Canadians. Those that are (e.g the 1% drop in GST) typically favour the rich when the analysis is done.
> 
> ...



Why is this so terribly difficult for some of you to grasp?

A) A brand new vision of a TRULY DEMOCRATIC Canada via free Parliamentary votes and a freely elected and effective Senate. One that could investigate or remove a corrupt PM and his cronies or even call an election, if necessary.

This is not a Big Difference from what we have now?

B) Stronger enforcement of existing laws and mandatory minimum sentences for repeat offenders in order to remove these criminals from our free society. Get em out of circulation for a while, and give us all a break from the theft and carnage.

THIS is not a big difference from the Liberal slap on the wrist policies of today??

C) Stop pandering to Quebec and bending over backwards to appease the unappeaseable. Especially now that they have just enthusiastically elected a provincial government that promises yet another referendum on soverignty. Save the Canadian tax dollars for more worthy causes that benefit ALL Canadians. Not just those in Quebec.

D) Do something real to prepare our public health care system for the sudden massive influx of aging baby boomers that will soon be making huge demands upon it. The medical system in this country is already failing...and if we just leave it as it is then it will collapse completely when the baby boomers begin to sicken with the frailties of old age.

The demographic reality is that we will see the largest third of the Canadian population all begin to get sick and use the hospitals just about the very same time that this largest single contingent of taxpayers stops paying income taxes and stops buying taxable big ticket items.

And anyone who still subscibes to the tired old Liberal "throw money at it" soloution to this looming problem needs to ask themselves just where the HECK all that new money is going to come from...especially in the face of rapidly shrinking tax revenues? 

Finally.....

Why is it that the very same people who repeatedly re-elect the same old crooks into power also seem to think that every OTHER political party is "just as bad" and would be "just as crooked".

Even though none of these other political parties have EVER been in a position of power in the government of this country!!?? The NDP has never been in power in this country and neither has the new Canadian Conservative Party.

But they'd be 'just as bad' as the Liberals, according to some people.  

Maybe...but they'd sure have to work at it. Especially considering how deeply corrupt the Liberals have proven to be over the past decade.

Time to try somebody new. ANYBODY new.

Vote very carefully this time out. It's important. January 23rd is the time to make a change for the better.

Unless you want the same old same old again. And another tiny ineffective minority that is paralyzed by multiple scandals.

Your choice.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

used to be jwoodget said:


> The level of debate in the election so far from each of the leaders suggests that no one has learned anything. We will get the governance we deserve.....


Not true. 

One need only look at the daily policy announcements from the Conservatives and their gains in recent polls to see that party has learned from their past mistakes and become effective campaigners.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

MacNutt said:


> D) Do something real to prepare our public health care system for the sudden massive influx of aging baby boomers that will soon be making huge demands upon it. The medical system in this country is already failing...and if we just leave it as it is then it will collapse completely when the baby boomers begin to sicken with the frailties of old age.
> 
> And anyone who still subscibes to the tired old Liberal "throw money at it" soloution to this looming problem needs to ask themselves just where the HECK all that new money is going to come from...especially in the face of rapidly shrinking tax revenues?


I was curious to see what the Tories would do. In looking over both parties' promises on health care the Tories' plan seems awfully vague with an emphasis on wait times. In fact, their main point seems to be that if you hit the limit on wait times, they will send you to another jurisdiction to seek medical attention. :yikes: 

The Liberals are a bit more comprehensive. Their emphasis is not only on wait times but on ensuring that the system stays viable and accessible to all Canadians. They're also following the recommendations of the Romanow report which the Tories don't even mention in their platform.

If it comes down to voting on the basis of healthcare...I'd go with the Liberals.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Mike Harris was a good campaigner too..........has nothing to do with governance.

Harper has his opportunity to show governance in the minority parliament - he CHOSE not to.

He could not even earn the loyalty of the centrists in his own party and his political fellow traveller Ralph Klein thinks him "too right wing" for central Canada. His chief consort outright lied about "deal making".

What in that makes a "good governor"??

If this election is about anything it's about weariness with the Liberals ...the last election was Harper's to lose which he did. Perhaps the sheepskin clothing is bit more comprehensive this time.

After all.....just remember.....Chretien was an incredible *campaigner*....


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

MacNutt said:


> The NDP has never been in power in this country and neither has the new Canadian Conservative Party


What new party? The Conservatives aren't new. They've just had two name changes. My, how short the memory can be.

And I see that despite your efforts, you still can't promote conservative views without tearing down liberal views. How sad.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Speaking of short memory--Macnutt, did you send JFPoole his video card?


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

« MannyP Design » said:


> Speaking of short memory--Macnutt, did you send JFPoole his video card?


It's typical Tory thinking no? Promise something but don't deliver....


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## Mugatu (Mar 31, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> It's typical Tory thinking no? Promise something but don't deliver....


Hate to burst your bubble, but the Grits are no better.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Mugatu said:


> Hate to burst your bubble, but the Grits are no better.



Actually they are MUCH worse! Look back on the tainted history of that sad party and you will see a long string of broken campaign promises. They've been repeating their commitments on improving health care and on the Kyoto polloution accords for quite some time now...but both situations are quite a bit worse now. Despite all of the hot air.

And that's just a short list. The rest of it could fill a book.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

What's this about a video card? I think I need clarification on this one. Sorry to derail, but this seems like an 'inside' thing that is now outside.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

You know, even I can't remember what that was all about.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Beej said:


> What's this about a video card? I think I need clarification on this one. Sorry to derail, but this seems like an 'inside' thing that is now outside.


MacNutt placed a video card on auction in the Ehmac classified. JFP won it and MacNutt (if I remember) refused to send it as the final auction price was not high enough for him...


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

MacNutt: True? Was there a minimum price? Other comments?


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Read your PM's beej.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Didn't notice, sorry. I'm done with this time travel experiement.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Seems to me that a private deal between two members has two sides. It also seems to me that it is no business of anyone but the two parties involved.

Openly discussing or questioning a deal another knows nothing about is just plan wrong.

If you are not involved, IMHO you have no right to question motives or make comments, unless of course you have recently been appointed crown prosecutor of ehMac in which case I missed the announcement of the appointment.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

I explained it in a PM to beej. 

Now...on to roasting the Liberals!


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

MacNutt said:


> I explained it in a PM to beej.
> 
> Now...on to roasting the Liberals!


Pass the marshmallows!


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

SINC said:


> Seems to me that a private deal between two members has two sides. It also seems to me that it is no business of anyone but the two parties involved.
> 
> Openly discussing or questioning a deal another knows nothing about is just plan wrong.
> 
> If you are not involved, IMHO you have no right to question motives or make comments, unless of course you have recently been appointed crown prosecutor of ehMac in which case I missed the announcement of the appointment.


I would respectfully disagree, given the importance of public reputation (very appropriate in today's political debates), but that would make a nice new thread. May be poorly structured (leaning towards flame wars) but not, in my opinion, wrong to discuss.

[Edit: can I still have some marshmallows?]


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

My public reputation was destroyed around here long ago, beej.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Well, that's something I'll have to learn for myself. 

[Edit: still no word on the marshmallows]


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

SINC said:


> Seems to me that a private deal between two members has two sides. It also seems to me that it is no business of anyone but the two parties involved.


I agree -- JFPoole brought it to the public's attention after exhausting all other venues.



> Openly discussing or questioning a deal another knows nothing about is just plan wrong.


 The only person here that hasn't addressed the issue is MacNutt.



> If you are not involved, IMHO you have no right to question motives or make comments, unless of course you have recently been appointed crown prosecutor of ehMac in which case I missed the announcement of the appointment.


Well, as a member of this forum, I would hope that we all would help make it a better place to interact -- including dealings on the trading post. If the exact same thing had happened to you, I doubt you would be quiet about it. Also, If it had been anyone BUT MacNutt, you wouldn't have an issue with people talking publicly about a situation like this.

Feel free to search JFP's concern on this matter.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

YAAWWWNNN:yawn: 

Shall we get back to the subject of this thread?


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

MacNutt said:


> Shall we get back to the subject of this thread?


Ahem...marshmallows?

By the way, good debate format. Some back and forth, but not an anarchists convention.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Whassamatter snookums? Passed your bedtime?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Championing something on behalf of another, on an individual case where only the two parties really knows what happened, is a mistake.

You only have one side of the story and apparently choose to believe that one side. I know neither side, and have no desire to read one side's word against the other.

It is nothing more than a witch hunt in support of one side and frankly I am surprised it is allowed by the mods.

At best it is juvenile.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Actually SINC, the mods can verify that the auction was won by JFP....


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ArtistSeries said:


> Actually SINC, the mods can verify that the auction was won by JFP....


Proves nothing. Whatever happened is unknown to all of us unless we choose to believe one participant or the other. Dragging it up again and again solves nothing. It is best forgotten and adults should act accordingly and forget it.

Let the two parties solve it. End of story.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Artistseries seems to have an axe to grind here. Perhaps I might suggest that we conduct any further discusiion on this subject via PM's?

Or....were you simply attempting to derail this thread and "work me over" via any means at your disposal, artistseries?

Perhaps in light of the rapidly fading hopes of your favorite party?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

MacNutt said:


> Artistseries seems to have an axe to grind here. Perhaps I might suggest that we conduct any further discusiion on this subject via PM's?
> 
> Or....were you simply attempting to derail this thread and "work me over" via any means at your disposal, artistseries?
> 
> Perhaps in light of the rapidly fading hopes of your favorite party?


PM's would be the gentleman's way to solve the issue. Now all that remains to be seen is just who the gentlemen are.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

A real Gentleman would of honoured his word.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

MacNutt said:


> Perhaps in light of the rapidly fading hopes of your favorite party?


Wow MacNutt, you again assumed that my favourite party are the Libs. They are not, but I'm voting for them in my area because they are the only party that has a chance to defeat the Bloc here.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Perhaps you might want to check the latest polls for Quebec.

Looks like the Libs are fading fast in your area too. As hard as it is to grasp...the Harper Conservatives are making huge advances in la belle province. They are, apparently, almost at the same level as the rapidly fading Liberals. And they seem to have some momentum. At least that's what we are hearing.

And Martin's performance tonight in Montreal certainly didn't do anything to reverse this trend.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

The Liberals are doing better in "my" area. One of the only ones in PQ. 
The advances are moderate but certainly new (could it be that the Cons are using some inside organizers in the province? )


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

SINC said:


> Championing something on behalf of another, on an individual case where only the two parties really knows what happened, is a mistake.


LOL! Championing? I asked a very simple and direct question.



> You only have one side of the story and apparently choose to believe that one side. I know neither side, and have no desire to read one side's word against the other.


I'd like to know both sides as it's something that directly affects how this site regulates scenarios such as this. A simple explanation as to why the auction was not completed would suffice. Instead, silence.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

MacNutt said:


> Shall we get back to the subject of this thread?


<em>You</em> were never on it....



Manny said:


> A simple explanation as to why the auction was not completed would suffice. Instead, silence.


The Auction story, short version.

1.	MacNutt starts an auction for his video card, starting price 0$ CDN. (note, he could have set it higher)

2.	during the course of the auction someone offers (via PM or some such, <em>but doesn't actually bid on the auction</em>) 30$ for the card and MacNutt says "I don't think that's enough" despite the fact that it was an auction, in which the seller doesn't get to dictate the final price here int he real world.

3.	jfpoole <em>bids</em> on the auction. I don't remember how much, but it was low. Like, a dollar or some such was the winning price. I have no idea what the maximum bid was, but it could have been anything (yay proxy bidding). The starting price was <em>zero</em> so it's not like he had to make with the bad mojo to end up with such a low winning price.

4.	jfpoole wins the auction, MacNutt initially refuses to honour the results breaching what on any other auction site would be a legally binding contract.

5.	jfpoole reports the incident to ehMac management, nothing comes of it. I ask too.

6.	jfpoole starts a threa asking "so does this mean that auctions are meaningless here?"

7.	MacNutt offers to honour the winning bid jfpoole made, adding a very high (think 100$ CDN) shipping charge. jfpoole respectfully declines this oh so generous offer. Around this time MacNutt first says that he never intended to list the item as an auction.

8.	jfpoole (and my) questions about auction rules are never answered, but the auction section of ehMac quietly disappears.

Woo for debacles.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Start a new thread on it, if you'd like. This particular one has to do with reasons for (or not voting for) the Canadian Conservative Party.

Personally I thought the matter was settled ages ago.

And oddly enough...the only people who seem to be consumed with this long dead issue are perhaps the very same ones who might like to divert a bit of attention away from the failing fortunes of the Liberals at this particular moment by attacking one of the loudest proponents of the rapidly rising Conservatives at this forum on a totally different front.

Sounds to my warrior genes like a flanking manoever. Bit of a weak one too.

But, I guess when things are really going bad for your side then some types will use whatever is available to lash out. 

Last ditch stuff. But it's kind of entertaining, in a sad sort of a way.  :lmao: :baby:


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

PosterBoy said:


> <em>You</em> were never on it....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Slight correction here, PB.

New format at ehmac. MacNutt lists a video card for sale. Does not realise that he has also listed it for auction.

Apparently no one else does either. While he's taking offers for it in the trading post, the auction comes and goes.

The only person that bids on the unknown auction is JFPoole. The two guys who wanted to buy it never bid on the auction that no one knew was being conducted. They both made me direct offers. Which I turned down.

When I was finally informed that I had somehow listed this video card for auction (I truly do not remember hitting that button...and certainly did not intend to) and was informed that the lone bidder, JfPoole (the only guy who knew there even WAS an auction taking place) had "won" the auction with a bid of 50 cents...

I thought it was a joke. JFP and I had been friends at that point and I truly thought he was pulling my leg.

But he wasn't. He really thought that he could somehow get a G5 video card for 50 cents simply because he was the only person at ehmac who knew it was being auctioned. By mistake. 

I certainly didn't know it was being auctioned. I have bought and sold several things here at ehmac. NONE have ever been auctioned.

That's all it is. The whole enchilada.

Now...can we get back to reality? Or does someone want to start a whole new thread on this...as I suggested earlier?


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

PosterBoy has the story.
MacNutt is being selective.

During a conversation with JFP, MacNutt and myself about said incident, JFP was being a gentleman about the whole thing - but MacNutt being MacNutt well....

-- radio edit --



Now, I think a lot of this could of been avoided by stating the mistake on your part right away (even if you did list the card for 2 weeks)

There already has been a thread on this - you were conspicuous by your absence. Now, I do agree this is pretty much moot points. 

I think the bigger questions has to do with the Ehmac Trading Post and what rules (if any apply to them). How would they be enforced...


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Fer gosh sakes artistseries....if you are THAT determined to discredit me here at ehmac, then start a new thread on the subject. And print the WHOLE transcript while you are at it.

Including the earlier part where I express total surprise at having listed the video card for auction. 

You might also attempt to explain why no one else around here seemed to know there even WAS an auction taking place...including the two people who attempted to buy it via the regular trading post. For 30 and fifty dollars, respectively.

(talk about being "selective"...)tptptptp


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

MacNutt said:


> Including the earlier part where I express total surprise at having listed the video card for auction.


MacNutt, the "earlier" part where you express surprise at having put up the Video Card is after trying to justify a 100$ shipping and handling cost for a good 15 minutes.
The winning bid was .98$. You removed the auction after it was over (not before).


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Then start a new thread on it if you feel that strongly about it.

And be prepared to explain why NO ONE ELSE ON THIS BOARD seemed to be aware that the video card had been put up for auction. Not me...not the two guys who tried to buy it at the trading post...NO ONE! 

(Except JFP, apparently. And he thought he could parlay this mistaken listing into a ridiculously good deal. At my expense.)

This will be my last reply to this derailed subject, on this particular thread.

That's IT! CLARO?tptptptp


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

Actually, I knew it was up for auction, I just didn't need a new video card. I could tell it was an auction because of where it said "auction" on the listing.

*shrug*


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## jfpoole (Sep 26, 2002)

PosterBoy said:


> 3.	jfpoole <em>bids</em> on the auction. I don't remember how much, but itwas really low. Like, a dollar or some such. A really low bid, but the starting price was <em>zero</em> so it's not like he had to make with the bad mojo to put in such a low bid.


I can't remember what my maximum bid was; ehMac's auction software performed <a href="http://pages.ebay.com/help/buyerguide/bidding-prxy.html">proxy bidding</a> on my behalf. A couple of other people bid against me, but the final price was 98 cents. 

For what it's worth, there was a <a href="http://www.ehmac.ca/showthread.php?t=31344">thread</a> about this particular auction a while ago in the feedback section.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

One guy refuses to sell a video card for a measly 98 cents?

One guy actually expects to buy a video card for a measly 98 cents?

Draw you own conclusion as to who made the right decision.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

One guy puts up a video card with no reserve.
Auction is won far and square.
One guy was hoping for more for the video card.
Said guy decided that he want's to honour bid only if buyer ready to accept 100$ shipping and handling fee....
Said jfp ready to drop it lesson learned on the seller - seller becomes arrogant.


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

SINC said:


> One guy refuses to sell a video card for a measly 98 cents?
> 
> One guy actually expects to buy a video card for a measly 98 cents?
> 
> Draw you own conclusion as to who made the right decision.


One guy is getting one hell of a deal

One guy is a crook for not honoring the sale and trying to get $100.00 for shipping and handling.

and considering that MacNutt on several occasions has boasted how much he makes on his water business he could have easily swallowed his pride sold the card for the end price of the auction without the ridiculous shipping tagged on and kept the peace here on EhMac.

Laterz


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

And, as pointed out, we don't know hat jfpoole put down as a maximum bid, only that no one bid against him (which would have driven the price up, just like on eBay or any other auction that uses proxy bidding).


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

AHEM....

Back to regular programming here. And BTW, feel free to pack all of your many frustrations into a brightly decorated little bag and take them over to a brand new thread, if that's what floats yer boat.

Who knows? It might just make you feel a bit better about yourselves. Maybe. A bit.

Meanwhile, this thread is about Liberals versus Conservatives.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

[email protected]: hey, macnutt, did you get my PM?
g5macnutt: Havewn't been there for a day or two JF.
[email protected]: what do you want to do about the video card, macnutt?
g5macnutt: Probably keep it as a spare.
[email protected]: um
[email protected]: you put it up for auction
[email protected]: i won the auction
g5macnutt: fifty bucks is the best offer. Not even close.
[email protected]: yes
00:55
[email protected]: did they bid?
[email protected]: no.
[email protected]: i had the high bid on ehMac
g5macnutt: And that was?
[email protected]: 98 cents
g5macnutt: Okay then.
AS: So what are the "rules" for an auction?
[email protected]: the way macnutt's acting?
[email protected]: there aren't any.

[email protected]: funny how macnutt's a capitalist only when it suits him.

g5macnutt: You won the auction JF. Or so you say.
[email protected]: i dunno
[email protected]: ask AS.
g5macnutt: Fine then. Shipping and handling will be a hundred beans. Send me a cheque for 101 and you can have it.

[email protected]: you didn't say that the buyer had to cover shipping in the ad
[email protected]: i assumed it was included in the auction price.
g5macnutt: Nice try, old buddy.
g5macnutt: Never assume anything in this life. Trust me on this...
[email protected]: i've shipped video cards before.
[email protected]: $20?
[email protected]: maybe
[email protected]: $100?
[email protected]: That's unreasonable.
g5macnutt: Salt Spring is off the beaten track. And the "handling" will run about 80 bucks on this end.
[email protected]: sounds like sour grapes to me.
[email protected]: here's a hint for you
[email protected]: next time?
[email protected]: set a minimum price
g5macnutt: fair enough. I'm new at the ehmac auctions.
g5macnutt: And you might want to inquire about shipping and handling BEFORE you bid on anything.
[email protected]: dude
01:05
g5macnutt: Just a hint.
[email protected]: 100 for shipping?
[email protected]: unreasonable.
[email protected]: let me know what the shipping costs are for the card via canada post.
g5macnutt: and 98cents for a nice video care IS reasonable??
[email protected]: it's what the auction outcome was.
g5macnutt: Get real.
[email protected]: i can't help it that no-one else bid.
g5macnutt: Shipping is 20 bucks. handling is 80 bucks. deal with it.
g5macnutt: Or go without.
[email protected]: funny that wasn't mentioned in the listing.
g5macnutt: Time to drop this JF. the joke is getting old.
[email protected]: no
[email protected]: i won the auction
[email protected]: posterboy is near SSI, isn't he?
[email protected]: maybe he could pick up the card for me.
g5macnutt: Yeah. And I just explained to you what it will cost for you to have it shipped. deal with the realiity.
[email protected]: John - PosterBoy is on SSI every couple of months.
[email protected]: 'xactly.
[email protected]: i'll get him to pick it up.
[email protected]: no shipping
[email protected]: no handling.
g5macnutt: Posterboy can pick it up. He lives on the mainland. It will cost him about forty bucks to get here
[email protected]: meh
g5macnutt: handling on my end will add another 80 bucks. Price just went up.
[email protected]: BC Transportation gouges you muchly.
[email protected]: price can't go up.
[email protected]: the auction was for 98 cents.
g5macnutt: Gas here is a buck thirty a litre.
[email protected]: it's not my fault that you don't know how to work an auction.
g5macnutt: Right. And shipping and handling will add another c-note. Figure it out.
[email protected]: there's no shipping
[email protected]: there's no handling
[email protected]: if someone picks it up.
01:10
g5macnutt: The handling is on my end. The cost is 80 bucks for me to bring it out to the driveway. Even if you materialised here tomorrow. That's the deal.
g5macnutt: Drop it.
[email protected]: why?
[email protected]: i won the auction
[email protected]: charging that much for "handling" is fraudulent.
g5macnutt: Cause you have to. You may have won the auction, but you'd lost the battle before you even started.
[email protected]: Fraudulent? no.
[email protected]: Absurd? Yes.
[email protected]: But so is the price of the item.
[email protected]: fraudulent?
[email protected]: yes
g5macnutt: And 98 cents for a 9600 PRO isn't fraudulent?
[email protected]: no
g5macnutt: In your mind ONLY.
[email protected]: i bid on an auction
[email protected]: a public auction.
[email protected]: i had the high big
[email protected]: er, bid
[email protected]: i won the auction
g5macnutt: And you won. Now you are balking at the shipping and handling costs. Poor you
g5macnutt: Life is soooo tough.
[email protected]: i'm balking at shipping and handling costs that weren't listed, and seem fraudulent to me.
g5macnutt: I'm balking at parting with a video card for 98 cents when I don't even remember putting it up for auction. I probably just checked that box by mistake.
AS: ?
g5macnutt: Let's move on. The card stays here. I withdrew it from the ad a few days ago.
[email protected]: you withdrew it after the auction ended.
[email protected]: too bad for you.
01:15
g5macnutt: You don't get the card unless you pony up for the shipping and handling. Too bad for YOU!
[email protected]: i'd be willing to consider paying for a reasonable amount of S&H, like, say, 20.
[email protected]: not 100.
g5macnutt: Fine then. I would be willing to take a reasonable price for the card. Not 98 cents.
[email protected]: 98 cents is what the auction ended at.
jfpool[email protected]: you can't change the auction, dude.
g5macnutt: You just won't leave this alone will you?
g5macnutt: I do admire tenacity.
g5macnutt: You must have Scots blood.
[email protected]: i bet on the card in good faith.
[email protected]: the fact that no one else bid?
[email protected]: how is this my problem.
g5macnutt: No...you bid thinking that you might get something for nothing.
[email protected]: how do you know what my high bid was?
[email protected]: i could've bid anything
[email protected]: 50
[email protected]: 100
[email protected]: who knows?
g5macnutt: And you realise that this is not the case. So you are working it a bit to see what might come through.
[email protected]: you set it up as an auction with no minimum price.
[email protected]: how am I supposed to know what's a reasonable price and what's an unreasonable price when you don't seem to know yourself?
g5macnutt: I have explained that I don't remember checking off that box...and that I withdrew the video card from sale several days back.
[email protected]: you withdrew it after the auction ended.
g5macnutt: You know very well what is a reasonable price for a video card.
[email protected]: it was up for two weeks.
01:20
g5macnutt: I was away for at least that long.
g5macnutt: Deal with the reality.
[email protected]: the reality is that i won the auction
[email protected]: if i need to escalate this i will.
g5macnutt: Good for you. make several black marks against my name if you'd like. join the club.
g5macnutt: I thrive on that. You know this.
AS: Gerry - how much where you expecting for the card?
AS: Curious....
g5macnutt: I'd half thought that I might get about 100 bucks for it..
g5macnutt: That's what I paid for a used second card for my G4
AS: What's the second card you bought?
AS: 9600 or other?
g5macnutt: The one for the G4 was an ATI Rage Pro with only about 4 mgs of RAM. It was just so's I could run a second monitor.
g5macnutt: I haven't seen any used video cards around here for less than 90 bucks or so.
01:25
AS: 9600 on Ebay goes from 2.97$ to xx.xx
g5macnutt: Not on Salt Spring Island. Gas goes for a buck ten a liter in calgary. But not on Salt Spring. Property goes for 150 grand per acre in many places. On Salt Spring it's about 500 grand per acre.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Anyone who would save transcripts that old is suspect.

Remind me never again to converse again on iChat.

No wait, revise that to never again do so when AS is on line.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

SINC, iChat transcripts are saved automatically. 
Comes in handy with people who like to distort what they write.
Not that Gerry would ever be like that....


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ArtistSeries said:


> SINC, iChat transcripts are saved automatically.
> Comes in handy with people who like to distort what they write.
> Not that Gerry would ever be like that....


They are? Odd, never save them on my HD.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

ArtistSeries said:


> [email protected]: hey, macnutt, did you get my PM?
> g5macnutt: Havewn't been there for a day or two JF.
> [email protected]: what do you want to do about the video card, macnutt?
> g5macnutt: Probably keep it as a spare.
> ...


SINC, in iChat > preferences > Messages > Automatically save chat transcripts


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I would never consider activating that feature AS. Come to think of it, why would anyone else?


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

SINC said:


> Anyone who would save transcripts that old is suspect.
> 
> Remind me never again to converse again on iChat.
> 
> No wait, revise that to never again do so when AS is on line.


No kidding SINC. Especially when certain parts have been carefully edited out..."for effect". 

I think we can add this to the artistseries file that is labeled "desperation". Under the subheading "lashing out".

Go easy on artistseries. Recent events have been pretty hard for him to absorb. It's gotta be tough right now...

I suspect that several others all across this vast country are bashing their heads against whatever hard surface might be available at this particular moment. :yikes: 

Once this has stopped then we need to reach out and embrace our fellow citizens. No matter who they might have supported and followed so blindly for so many years.

This is their hour of need. And they ARE our brothers, after all.

Give em all a great big hug, and make it all better.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Gerry, what has been edited out?


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Goodnight, artistseries.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

I see.
Once more taken to task and YOU CANT EVEN ANSWER A SIMPLE, DIRECT QUESTION.


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Not tonight, artistseries. But I'd be very pleased to continue this tomorrow, if you'd like. 

It's been fun. Really.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

MacNutt said:


> Meanwhile, this thread is about Liberals versus Conservatives.


This thread was about you trying to sell your party of choce withot tearing down the competing party/parties. It didn't happen, remember?



SINC said:


> I would never consider activating [logging cnversations in iChat] AS. Come to think of it, why would anyone else?


In every chat app I've ever tried, it's been on by default. If you never turned it off, it's likely still on.

Besides, there are good reasons for logging chats. I've looked at mine to verify where info came from, who said things, etc.



ArtistSeries said:


> Gerry, what has been edited out?


I'd like to hear from both of you. 

ArtistSeries, is there anything missing from the transcript? Beginning, middle or end?

MacNutt, what do you contend is missing?


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

This is hilarious. Bravo.

SINC: The auto-save of transcripts is actually very useful when you want to recall the collaborations with others, meeting minutes with long-distant co-workers, etc. They've also helped shed light on how people *really* are when they don't have time to carefully write a well thought out post on a BBS.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

The few times I have used iChat with far-flung friends has been instructive. The dialogue was indeed auto-saved... discovering that fact, then rereading the transcripts afterwards confirms how woefully banal, inherently choppy and incomplete I find chat as a means of communication. Personally, I'd rather exchange emails or pick up the phone.

But I agree completely - it's an excellent means of getting a more unvarnished impression of someone... chat is about simplicity and immediacy of use - it's certainly not about formal presentation. What you see is what you get. It sure can be revealing, though.

Now, about what's been allegedly edited out of this particular transcript - well, I'll just leave that one alone.


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

In fairness, Sinc, everyone I know keeps their chat transcripts. Often for many, many years. I don't, but I have to turn that option off intentionally, or they would be automatically kept. I'm staying out of the larger issue.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

PosterBoy said:


> ArtistSeries, is there anything missing from the transcript? Beginning, middle or end?
> 
> MacNutt, what do you contend is missing?


The chat is part of a transcript that started at 22:15 and finished at 3:00am.
I have cut from when another ehmac members says "I really need to get some sleep. I'm becoming incoherent." and banter that has no relationship to the video card such as:
g5macnutt: Person of the day?
g5macnutt: WTF??
[email protected]: It's been running since Aug. 26th
g5macnutt: Target of the day maybe...
The above constituted almost all (95%) of what was taken out. 
JFP left after
g5macnutt: Good for you. make several black marks against my name if you'd like. join the club.
g5macnutt: I thrive on that. You know this.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I just checked the prefs in iChat and the box that says automatically save is not checked. since I did not even notice it was there, it must be so as a default in my case.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Hey!!! A new scandal that doesn't involve the Liberals! On a per capita basis, it makes Adscam look like penny-pinching.  I wonder if NSF has a record of the dialogue too?

Take home: jfp was scammed since taking candy from a "baby" is not against the law


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## MacNutt (Jan 16, 2002)

Agreed, JWoodgett! 

Makes a nice break from the never ending stream of scandals that seem to be coming from the Liberals these days. Wonder when the attack ads will start?


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

MacNutt, are you going to answer the question? What do you contend is missing from the chat transcript?


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

You can't handle the truth!


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

You guys are like a bunch of children. Geez, drop it. It's a non issue. Macnutt may be wrong, but you guys are making fools of yourselves chasing this "oh so minor" incident.

Play time's over boys.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

SINC said:


> Macnutt may be wrong,


As this thread was slowly dropping, "bump" SINC revived it.... 
Note the selective quote this time.

I think MacNutt would that he is "right".....


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