# TTC strike hits Hogtown on Monday morning



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

management blames drivers and maintenance workers
drivers and maintenance workers say management painted them into a corner

and the poor schmuck trying to make his way to work on a Monday smog alert day gets screwed

obviously these idiots (management AND employees) have no concern for their customers

TTC should be a vital service and not allowed to strike BUT an independent panel should oversee management's moves so that workers don't get screwed
the panel should report directly to the mayor

so on a smog alert day more people are forced to use cars to commute to work
very nice TTC, very nice

morons


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

can you believe this is all because management wanted to move a handful of janitors to the night shift?

from the Globe: "The TTC wants 53 of 87 janitors and 53 of 91 subway track workers moved permanently to the night shift from day jobs as part of a cost-savings measure." http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060529.w2ttc05291/BNStory/National/home

i'm going to have to side with management on this one. sorry guys and gals of the ttc, you don't get to paralyze the city just because you don't want to work the night shift. in the real world, totally unskilled workers in the janitorial profession do, in fact, work the night shift.

i guess being grossly overpaid with a job for life isn't enough for these people.


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## shoe (Apr 6, 2005)

I say take the day off enjoy the sunshine, either that or walk to work take as long as you need and let the boss deal with it, I mean what are they gonna do?

But your right TTC shouldnt be allowed to strike, nor should alot of services 911 folk ahem teachers cough cough ect

Shoe


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

> sorry guys and gals of the ttc, you don't get to paralyze the city just because you don't want to work the night shift. in the real world, totally unskilled workers in the janitorial profession do, in fact, work the night shift.


I suspect the situation may be a bit more complex than this. Perhaps it's best to weigh in with all the facts.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

mrjimmy said:


> I suspect the situation may be a bit more complex than this. Perhaps it's best to weigh in with all the facts.


no matter how you slice it the only innocent party in this is the millions of TTC riders

management and union are to blame

I wonder if montly pass riders will get some sort of rebate?
i certainly hope the union workers don't get paid by the TTC for today


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

MacSpectrum, and I agree again!

I predict that MacSpectrum will fib and say I spelled this as MAcSpec.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Macfury said:


> MAcSpec and I agree again!


what do you mean "again?"
 

ps - notice how i was able to decode your message even tho' you spelled MACSPETRUM as MAcSpec ?

must be all that book learnin'


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

See, there he goes again!

MacSpectrum: we agreed that smaller government was better than larger.


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

> Perhaps it's best to weigh in with all the facts.


perhaps you can weigh in with the facts i might have missed. as the Globe described it, this was the issue that prompted the strike.

from the union's own website:



> Toronto transit employees walk off the job
> 
> MAY 29, 2006
> 
> The dispute is, at least in part, due to the fact that the TTC wants 53 of 87 janitors and 53 of 91 subway track workers permanently moved to the night shift from day jobs as part of a cost-savings measure.


http://www.atucanada.ca/index.asp


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## highapostle (Apr 21, 2004)

Can't remember where I read it, but one issue that was cited is security concerns, especially among bus and streetcar drivers. They want a firm timeline from management as to when cameras and other security features will be phased in.


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## DS (Oct 7, 2004)

Here's how the TTC operates:

One of my friends does a sort of "maintenance" job with the TTC, not going to say what. He started not too long ago.

On his second day on the job, his crew told him the following: "Hey man, you're working way too hard, moving too fast. Just slow down, take it easy. They'll just hire someone else". Apparently the lot of them does what works out to less than an hour of work a day. And as you may have just figured out from the above comment, there is certainly more than an hour of work to be done.

I think it's now pretty clear what my opinion is on this, and ESPECIALLY what I think about the union. It just doesn't work this way in the real world. No wonder they've had to jack fares like 3 times in the past, what, year? 2 years?

I think it's absolutely disgusting that they're allowed to get away with this, and it's all at the expense of the taxpayers and riders that should never have to be subjected to this kind of crap.

Go David Miller, you keep watching out for yourself (go 9% council raise), while getting nothing done (except raising taxes and usage fees). This is the mentality that your "workers" get.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I don't believe security was a strike issue--the drivers merely said thay won't shake down deadbeat passengers until security measures are enacted.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

as i've said in the past, certain employers should be labelled as essential services; schools, ttc, police, fire dept. hospitals, doctors, nurses, EMT, hydro workers, phone, etc.

no strike action should be allowed
any and all disputes to be handled by a gov't appointed arbitrator
and then both employees and management have to live with the decision
if they don't like the arbitrator, they can voice their opinion to their MP and in the next election
the arbitrator should report directly to the premier's office just so we know where the buck stopped


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

From The Toronto Star:



> A union-management battle has been brewing for months over several issues including driver security, health premiums, job evaluations and shifting for employees who do track maintenance and cleaning for the TTC.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

DS: I once worked a union job but couldn't keep my speed down to the leaden pace around me. The hardest part was timing the work so that there would be 10 minutes until break time and the next phase of the job would take 12 minutes--no sense starting something that can't be finished! Then marching into the washrooms for extended handwashing five minutes before break--can't be expected to wash your hands on your break time!

This may not be true of all union shops--but true of the ones I have worked for.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

DS said:


> Here's how the TTC operates:
> 
> One of my friends does a sort of "maintenance" job with the TTC, not going to say what. He started not too long ago.
> 
> ...


i am quite sure there are a many ttc management types that do SFA as well

ttc drivers should not be required to enforce payment
let ttc chairmen do that if they want higher profits

oh and by the way who is paying for the constant roadwork caused by the twice as heavy streetcars?

keeping streetcars in toronto was a very stupid idea
they clog up traffic and tear up roads
buses (electric and gas) create far better traffic patterns and much lower impact (literally) on roads

and who decided on streetcars?

don't put all the blame of higher ttc prices on employees

the fish stinks from the head on down


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

> don't put all the blame of higher ttc prices on employees
> 
> the fish stinks from the head on down


Well put Macspectrum. My point exactly.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

It IS a smelly fish.

You just need to look at the TTC head office parking lot. The executive who manage the TTC ought to be taking this service to work--the head office is built right over Davisville station. It's PACKED with cars.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

gee, all this "I agree with MACSPECTRUM" today.
I hope the sky isn't falling....


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

I'm very close to streetcar barns in the east end. On way way to work this morning there's dozens of maroon-jacketed TTC employees standing around in the early morning sun, in front of their office, smoking ciggies and drinking cups of java. On my way along Queen East I spot another dozen more headed back from the Tulip, coffees in hand. They all looked smug and jolly - they seemed to be expectantly eying all of us who were passing by.

Stuff like drives me nuts. This is no way for them to endear themselves to the public.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Max said:


> I'm very close to streetcar barns in the east end. On way way to work this morning there's dozens of maroon-jacketed TTC employees standing around in the early morning sun, in front of their office, smoking ciggies and drinking cups of java. On my way along Queen East I spot another dozen more headed back from the Tulip, coffees in hand. They all looked smug and jolly - they seemed to be expectantly eying all of us who were passing by.
> 
> Stuff like drives me nuts. This is no way for them to endear themselves to the public.



as opposed too the smug spin doctoring by management types?
management likes this situation hoping that public opinion will go against the employees so they 'win'

again, more ombudsmen and arbitrators, less strikes and lawyers


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

MacSpectrum: I'm willing to work with you on these issues. 

A few months ago, when a private service offered to take customers on a bus route along Toronto's Lakeshore Drive in comfort, the TTC's immediate response: this is illegal--we'll have to have this shut down. You can see what the priorities are: the TTC at all costs--people-moving comes a distant second.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

> management likes this situation hoping that public opinion will go against the employees so they 'win'


Since management supposedly likes this situation, why are the TTC employees playing into their hands?

I ain't saying that the management is in the right. I'm saying that the employees I saw this morning looked like kids on their first day of summer vacation.


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## adagio (Aug 23, 2002)

DS said:


> Here's how the TTC operates:
> 
> 
> 
> On his second day on the job, his crew told him the following: "Hey man, you're working way too hard, moving too fast. Just slow down, take it easy. They'll just hire someone else". Apparently the lot of them does what works out to less than an hour of work a day. And as you may have just figured out from the above comment, there is certainly more than an hour of work to be done.


I can attest you tell the truth. My ex applied for and got a job in TTC maintenance. He quit after one week. He couldn't stand the slow pace and attitude. Several times he was told to slow down his work. He said if he worked any slower he'd be asleep. 

The TTC union has the city by the throat. It's time to mandate they are an essential service.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Lets see..... TTC drivers are worried about aggressive, angry passengers and their security. So they pull a wildcat strike and leave hundreds of thousands of passengers stranded. Notice anything wrong with this strategy?


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Apparently that's a smoke screen - there was a shift assignment change that is unpopular so they ( the union ) are drumming up the safety issue for public consumption.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

The union will have a tough time justifying breaking with their contract over janitor shifts. The safety issue may have some legs, except it seems like they can side-step that without striking (don't enforce collection) and is hardly new (what was in the contract about this?). As for productivity anecdotes: I'm shocked!









Could be worse, they could be pulling this stunt:

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/05/27/cupe-sat.html

.......
The Ontario division of Canada's largest union has voted to support an international campaign that is boycotting Israel over its treatment of Palestinians.

Delegates to the Canadian Union of Public Employees Ontario convention in Ottawa voted overwhelmingly Saturday to support the campaign until it sees Israel recognizing the Palestinians' right to self-determination. The Ontario group represents more than 200,000 workers.
........


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Beej said:


> Could be worse, they could be pulling this stunt:
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/05/27/cupe-sat.html
> 
> ...


And what is so bad about that?
Really Beej....
This is a union making it's politics be known. They voted on the boycott.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Personally I think it's very dodgy for a public service union to engage in active political protest of any kind including concerning affairs which impact foreign policy. Very slippery slope.
Non public union is a different matter.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

The TTC talks were stalled because the union officials were late getting to the meeting. Hey, you know how you could have prevented that.....

I think this will backfire for the unions. They may well have had some cause for concerns but they've blown any goodwill that remained by setting this tripwire. Wait till the interviews with patients who couldn't get to their clinics......


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Max said:


> Since management supposedly likes this situation, why are the TTC employees playing into their hands?
> 
> I ain't saying that the management is in the right. I'm saying that the employees I saw this morning looked like kids on their first day of summer vacation.


employees are guided by unions who really don't care about public opinion, but only pine for the support of their member

i sure as hell hope those employees don't get paid for today
wanna bet if they know they wouldn't be paid, they'd be less jovial?

this all stems from the confrontational style of management v. employee
both sides foster animosity by chest beating thinking it will gain favour with those that pay their salaires

in the end, riders get screwed


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

the whole lot should be fired ala Reagan with the air traffic controllers.


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## adagio (Aug 23, 2002)

The city is LOVING this strike.

I live right downtown. Every parking lot is full so many were forced to find metered street parking then walk to work. Of course the meters are only good for 2 - 4 hours depending where you are. That means that those folks are over the limit now. All the streets near me are lined with cars and $30 tickets attached. The parking Nazi's are in full force.

BTW, I agree... fire the whole lot of TTC workers.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Yes, fire them. Pipe cleaner legs, beer bellies and all.


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## An Old Soul (Apr 24, 2006)

Trout,

Part of a Union's purpose is to protect the worker's right to collectively decide that a change by management that violates a prior agreeement is something worth standing up against. 

If it weren't for labour movements, we'd all be making penny wages.

It sounds like you think that workers should always bend over to management's requests.

The truth is, should that always happen, they wouldn't pay anyone at all, if they had the choice. The best labour is free labour, a motto secretly held by the world's largest corporations.

Please, reconsider your piont of view.


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

an old soul, your comments are valid for the private sector only, and not for these pigs at the trough.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Yep. Unions are fine in their place--not in this privileged position with the public sector and their soft-balling masters,


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## Guest (May 29, 2006)

I don't know that firing all the TTC employees would help, but I'd be all for axing the management folks that are responsible for this fiasco. Between the price hikes -- even AFTER they got the gov't funding they had been lobbying for for so long and the poorer quality of service (if anyone disagrees they should try and come out far into the west end and try to get a street card on the queen street line some days - waiting 35+ minutes for a streetcar is pretty lame when they say they run "frequently") and the bitching that they have no money after spending hundreds of millions on a subway line that has a very tiny utilization rate ....

UGGG.


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

for the record i wasn't serious about firing all of the ttc employees, but we do need to take off the kid gloves when dealing with public sector unions.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

TroutMaskReplica said:


> ...i wasn't serious about firing all of the ttc employees...


A true Trout Mask would be resolute. This is why you are a Trout Mask REPLICA!!


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## maximusbibicus (Feb 25, 2002)

Macfury said:


> A true Trout Mask would be resolute. This is why you are a Trout Mask REPLICA!!


LOL

Good one.


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)




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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Trout: Cap'n Beefheart is NOT secret knowledge.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

It is if you've had a tropical hotdog night, or been on the receiving end of a bat chain puller.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Shoot bulbs from your own snoot, Max!


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

LOL

Not familiar with that one. Is that from Don Van Vliet, or are you just riffing?


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Max--Just a few tortured lines from Bat Chain Puller:

Bulbs shoot from its snoot
And vanish into darkness

--------------------

Ape HAS killed Ape.


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

trumpet poop on the ground with peanuts.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

Macfury said:


> Ape HAS killed Ape.


I'm sorry to say I disagree, Macfury.

Uh man's gotta live,
Uh man's gotta eat
Uh man's gotta have shoes t' walk out on the street
I don't wanna kill my china pig

QED.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Max said:


> I'm sorry to say I disagree, Macfury.


But the branch WAS cut.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

"Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!"


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## MacAddict (Jan 29, 2006)

While we have certain sectors who obviously consider themselves irreplaceable when it comes to the work place, it sure makes you wonder how democratic our society really is. In my understanding of a democratic society either every worker is unionised or nobody is. If it wasn't for the fact that most of them today are paid by the taxpayer, they'd have all gone the way of the Dodo, for unions sure have outlived their usefulness. You only have to see how their demands have crippled the US auto industry, that once we regarded as blue chip companies, and yet the non-unionised auto companies are thriving and their work force is quite content with their lot . 

Unless some one has sufficient intestinal fortitude to rein them in once and for all, they'll do the same to our public sector and we'll all be hung out to dry together. And to think they want us to keep buying cars but leave them at home and commute using public transportation. Not on your life !


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

MacAddict: You spend the day inside a glass booth, pushing that lever that dispenses tokens and see if you have the skills to make it in today's TTC!


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## audiodan (Sep 26, 2005)

This strike has been a big trouble for many. My story was that my dad ended up, probably being late, to drive me to school in the morning, and I had to pay for a taxi (about 7 times more than what I would pay one way TTC) to get home.


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## adagio (Aug 23, 2002)

There's an upside to this strike... for you men at least.

There are hundreds of scantily clad young office girls on the sidewalks heading west along Queen St.

I even saw a few that the only thing they were wearing from the waist up was an iPod.


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

Interesting comments regarding this wildcat strike, 

The comments that the workers should not have the right to strike is funny. In this instance the workers do not have the right to strike, but strike they did.

Hope they they're not getting paid. They are not getting paid. Who would pay them. You may find that some individuals shall be terminated for cause if identified as a leader of this illegal strike.

The Union (by this I mean the legal structure) leaders are telling the worker to get back to work. These leaders are upset for legal and strategic reasons such as the post that pointed out the good will of the public.

The Union (I mean the group of rank and file here) leaders and membership are really pissed to do this.

As pointed out in posts the management of the TTC are less than desirable.

The Management have to be totally stunned. 

Good managers, at worst , piss off certain workers on a particular days and others workers on other days. Otherwise the managers would be dumb asses to piss off everyone on the same day because they end up with a mess like this. But I guess they didn't know this.

The other issue I dreaded when I awoke to the news on the Alarm Clock Radio of the TTC work stoppage, the opera singers in EhMac Land.

The opera singers posting with the mi mi mi, mi chorus. How dare they affect me and my life. It's an outrage! Why someone should write a strongly worded letter to the times!


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

BigDL said:


> Scabs leave terrible messes


As do far too many unions, present and past.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

SINC said:


> As do far too many unions, present and past.


unions are symptomatic of bad management

when the adversarial relationship is fostered between management and employees you get unions

unions are a result of a majority of employees pissed off enough to pay dues to a union since they don't believe management has their interests at heart

it always makes me laugh when i see tv commercials in which a bunch of MBA types are sitting around a table asking ; "What makes us different than our competition?" They pause, the look through their glass encased boardroom, when one MBA type points to the traffic of employees going back and forth doing their jobs and utters; "Them. They're our difference"

yeah, right


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

HowEver said:


> I gather they recognized the Palestinians' "right" to blow up innocent people over and over, so this is no surprise.


The same goes for Israel's policy of murdering women and children also then....


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> unions are symptomatic of bad management...


Funny you should say that. I've noticed that whenever I see a campfire, there's often an empty pack of matches nearby. I'll bet fire causes the spontaneous creation of empty matchbooks...


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

MF continues to blame the workers instead of the real causes...


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Just helping you guys over playing fast and loose with cause and effect. It goes both ways--except in the public sector where it goes mostly one way.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Let's see, management tries to impose a bonehead move and does not listen to employees when they have been warning about bonehead move. Management treats employees as numbers and forces change. Employees resort to wildcat strike. 

Public is caught in the cross-fire.

MF blames matches...

Sound about right to you?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Sounds right to me. Though I think you wield metaphors rather clumsily.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Macfury said:


> Sounds right to me. Though I think you wield metaphors rather clumsily.


I'm on union time at the moment...


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)




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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Anyone that doubted Toronto Transit helping the city got a lesson in numbers today.
It could be better but a lot of people depend on it.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Surprisingly easy to drive down the streetcar lines today without those brutish Red Rockets gumming up the works though.


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## Aero (Mar 2, 2006)

hmmm that surprised me, lol didn't know there was a TTC strike this morning hahahhaa.


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## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

ArtistSeries said:


> The same goes for Israel's policy of murdering women and children also then....


If only you could assert your political views on the middle east without venomous, hateful lies...


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

Macfury said:


> Surprisingly easy to drive down the streetcar lines today without those brutish Red Rockets gumming up the works though.


Here's the deal... that's nothing. If the TTC were to go down in flames tomorrow within a year the city would be awash in cars, bikes, scooters and motorcycles, all jostling one another on Queen, King, St. Clair, Spadina... don't know about you, but that sounds brutish to me. You might not have to worry about those 70 ton behemoths trundling along, but you and your car would get into a lot more scrapes and fender-benders. Not to mention all of the added fumes from all of those combustible engines spewing glorious dreck into the atmosphere... mmmm, mmmm!

The TTC is a necessary evil. Better the devil you know!


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Max: I'm not disagreeing about long term effects. I'm only pointing out that yesterday's strike shot me across town in record time last evening, a welcome relief from trying to pass streetcars that jump the red light so you can't pass them.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> streetcars that jump the red light so you can't pass them.


yeah, ain't that the truth

streetcars are a very stupid idea in a modern city, unless they are underground, but then they are called subways

a subway link to Skydome aka Rogers "whatever" and a link to York U. is so very, very overdue that it's just silly


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## UnleashedLive (Aug 9, 2004)

ok I didn't bother to read through the 8 pages of posts, but I went down to Toronto Sunday night and when I woke up Monday and found this out all my plans went out the window. Traffic was aweful, instead of using TTC to get downtown I had to drive. The Molson Amiptheatre Box Office was closed...argh...one of the main reasons I went down was to get some concert tickets. I had to come back last night so no tickets for me.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

The combo Taco Bell/Pizza Hut/KFC on Dufferin conveniently shut their doors at 5:30 p.m--have no idea why, since customers were still heading for the place in droves.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Macfury said:


> The combo Taco Bell/Pizza Hut/KFC on Dufferin conveniently shut their doors at 5:30 p.m--have no idea why, since customers were still heading for the place in droves.


They did you a favour!


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Yeah, but my little boy was begging for a chicken quesadailla--and he won't eat anything approaching real Mexican cuisine!


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

> streetcars that jump the red light so you can't pass them.


This works both ways, of course. How many times have I seen motorists cut off busses which are legally supposed to be given right of way to get back into traffic after having left a stop? A ton of times.

These little courtesies are supposed to be equally extended by all who share the road. Alas, it's a dog-eat-dog world out there now. Too many cyclists are running reds and blowing through stop signs because they imagine, for some reason, that the rules of the road do not apply to them. And how many times have you GTA'ers observed four or five cars turning left on an amber, then a red? It never used to happen. Now it's the norm.

And then there's places like Queen West and its bladers and boarders... man, it's insane. It's a wonder we don't have more fatalities than we do.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Come to work at 7:30. No parking on major streets, less traffic, cooler tempers. It really is dog-eat-dog out there. The TTC bus yield rule is a good one but the TTC drivers have become very brazen in using it. They'll pull out with little if any warning for passing cars. Some (many) drivers are pigs, but roads are for sharing and more intelligent left-hand turn advanced greens on streetcar roads would help traffic flow considerably (since many red rockets sit behind the drivers trying to turn left).

And what is with the DVP and repairs? This dang 13 km strip of asphelt seemingly gets more attention than the entire 401. It's pristine. The only pristine road in Canada.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I never agreed with giving TTC drivers legal right-of-way and they're really abusing it. I always helped buses to get into traffic and used to make left turns at intersections where streetcars could pass me.

And what's with TTC vehicles stopping any-bloody-where they choose to grab a hot coffee? What's wrong with a Thermos?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

used to be jwoodget said:


> And what is with the DVP and repairs? This dang 13 km strip of asphelt seemingly gets more attention than the entire 401.


I suppose they have to make it nice if drivers are going to spend several hours inspecting it as they crawl to work each morning.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

used to be jwoodget said:


> The TTC bus yield rule is a good one but the TTC drivers have become very brazen in using it. They'll pull out with little if any warning for passing cars. Some (many) drivers are pigs, but roads are for sharing and more intelligent left-hand turn advanced greens on streetcar roads would help traffic flow considerably (since many red rockets sit behind the drivers trying to turn left).


Yep. I've noted that too... some TTC bus drivers seem to have a real chip on their shoulder.

It appears that general congestion has helped foment a new atmosphere where rules are for sissies and may the most aggressively Darwinian motorist/transit vehicle operator/pedestrian/cyclist win. _Bleh._ How did we come to this place? More importantly, how do we get out of it? Unless we start to cooperate as citizens of this one burg, it's only going to get more savage.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

.


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