# Rejected at Walden Apple Store



## Tony32 (Oct 29, 2007)

My friend went shopping this weekend in Buffalo, and I asked her to do me a favor and pick up an iphone for me. I gave her the money for it, and she deposited it onto her debit card. I figured there wouldn't be a problem. When I went to pick it up from her, she told me they would not sell her an iphone because she's Canadian, no way around it. I was pissed, and frustrated as I had read on this forum that they would accept debit cards and credit cards no problem. Guess not. Does anyone know a way around this?


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

Tony32 said:


> When I went to pick it up from her, she told me they would not sell her an iphone because she's Canadian, no way around it.
> ~snip~
> Does anyone know a way around this?


Straight from the horse's mouth:
"• iPhone may not be purchased for export outside of the United States, either directly or indirectly."​So legally, no, there is no way around it. You're not going to ask us how to do it illegally, _are you?_


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## Tony32 (Oct 29, 2007)

I'm willing to consider the illegal way.......:heybaby:


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## kastytis (Oct 24, 2006)

This whole thing about american retailers with canadian "subsidiaries" refusing to sell to Canadians truly smacks of discrimination -- economic -- base on the sole reason of our dollar. 

There was a whole civil rights movement in the '60s based on not being allowed service in a simple diner or not having to sit in the back of the bus.

As I remember it, no retailer in the States can refuse a sale for legal tender. Just not allowed. Am I wrong? Have the laws changed? 

And we're supposed to put up with "no, you're Canadian"?

Please.

It's worth a putting up a stink.


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## SoyMac (Apr 16, 2005)

Bjornbro said:


> Straight from the horse's mouth:
> "• iPhone may not be purchased for export outside of the United States, either directly or indirectly."​So legally, no, there is no way around it. You're not going to ask us how to do it illegally, _are you?_


I suspect Apple's policy is not a reflection of any law, U.S.A. or otherwise. It seems only to be Apple's policy to discriminate against Canadian/foreign customers.
Company policies can be challenged, and are often found to be discriminatory and illegal in themselves.

Note: "I'm not a lawyer. I just play one on TV."


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

from this thread, i have learned that apple policy and the LAW are the same thing.

oh wait, no they're not.


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## Carl (Jun 7, 2003)

Civil rights comparison? That's the dumbest thing I ever read on these forums. I think my brain hurts now.


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## Daktari (Feb 21, 2005)

kastytis said:


> This whole thing about american retailers with canadian "subsidiaries" refusing to sell to Canadians truly smacks of discrimination -- economic -- base on the sole reason of our dollar.
> 
> There was a whole civil rights movement in the '60s based on not being allowed service in a simple diner or not having to sit in the back of the bus.
> 
> ...


Are you seriously comparing what minorities went through in America for generations with Apple refusing to sell a cellphone to non-Americans? Nooses vs iPhones? Seriously?

If it is worth putting up a stink, gathera number of fellow aggrieved Canadians and launch a class action suit.

By the way, the laws have not changed, there was simply no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services.


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## RobOnt (Oct 28, 2007)

kastytis said:


> As I remember it, no retailer in the States can refuse a sale for legal tender. Just not allowed. Am I wrong? Have the laws changed?
> 
> .


You're wrong, there never was such a law. There's an article describing the "legal tender" thing here: Apple's No Cash For iPhone is Legal - iGadget Blog. As the article describes, this isn't really a legal tender issue but a freedom of contract issue and vendors are complete within there rights to set the terms of purchase for their product.


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## macmac (Oct 22, 2006)

Why even tell them your Canadian???


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

My goodness. You would think that with all the whining and complaining happening all over the Internet about Canadians, Cash, Credit Cards, and the iPhone, consumers would be a little bit smarter.

Nope! Same mistakes (they won't sell to Canadians? BS!). Same ignorance (they HAVE to take cash! It's the law!). It reminds me of that scene in Zoolander when Stiller and Wilson are trying to 'hack' the computer, and because they don't have a clue in the world, they revert to primate behavior, start screaming, and smashing things. That seems to be your typically Canadian iPhone buyer these days.

Oh, and FYI for all you Canadians out there, wanting to buy your iPhone. It NEEDS to be purchased on a credit card. Prepaid Credit Card Guide - All About Pre-Paid Visa and Master Card Deals


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## absolutetotalgeek (Sep 18, 2005)

This sh#t is just hilarious, it's the epitome of the 'Mac' user gone insane....."Gotta have it Gotta have it Gotta have it"....LOL :lmao: :lmao: 

Guess what? You can't! LMFAO!!:lmao: :lmao: _Suffer baby suffer_


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## mac_geek (May 14, 2005)

Tony32 said:


> I'm willing to consider the illegal way.......:heybaby:


Does the US Apple Store sell gift cards?

Buy a gift card using your Canadian debit card...

...use gift card a little later in the day to buy iPhone?

(This advice is not advocating illegal activity, just activity that may be against Apple's stated policies - so hopefully this is ok and inline with the forum rules...)


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## milhaus (Jun 1, 2004)

mac_geek said:


> Does the US Apple Store sell gift cards?
> 
> Buy a gift card using your Canadian debit card...
> 
> ...


Gift cards not allowed without US credit card either; so much for that.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> Video: Why Apple only takes credit cards for iPhones & the legal questions raised
> Posted by David Berlind
> 
> Earlier this week, in a post headlined Apple, hackenomics, and the waning anonymity (and obsoletion) of cash, I warned of how Apple’s practice of requiring credit cards to purchase iPhones wreaks of a future where our cash is no good and our privacy is sacrificed as a result of dealing in the far more trackable (and far less anonymous than cash) currency of plastic (credit cards, debit cards).
> ...


» Video: Why Apple only takes credit cards for iPhones & the legal questions raised | Berlind’s Testbed | ZDNet.com

Indeed....


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## kastytis (Oct 24, 2006)

Carl said:


> Civil rights comparison? That's the dumbest thing I ever read on these forums. I think my brain hurts now.


Brain hurts? Think it through. It most definitely is a civil rights issue. Having grown up in the '60s, having followed the civil rights movement during that time, there are parallels. No, Walden Galleria isn't the deep south. but the same principal stands. Being denied service based on nationality or colour or whatever, it's all the same. Being denied a cup of coffee outright in a restaurant because the owner doesn't like your colour or religion is wrong. Being denied the same cup of coffee based on citizenship or nationality is wrong. Substitute the cup of coffee for any other commodity, it's the same principal, whether it be an itouch, a car, a camera or a cup of coffee.

That's my point. It's wrong to deny, and I'm pretty sure unconstitutional, or illegal in the States, to deny service, whether it be based on colour or country of origin. They can't refuse my money -- after converting at the local bank -- simply to protect their dealers and operations in Canada. 

Go have a cup of coffee, it'll make your brain feel better.


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## MACinist (Nov 17, 2003)

kastytis said:


> Brain hurts? Think it through. It most definitely is a civil rights issue. Having grown up in the '60s, having followed the civil rights movement during that time, there are parallels. No, Walden Galleria isn't the deep south. but the same principal stands. Being denied service based on nationality or colour or whatever, it's all the same. Being denied a cup of coffee outright in a restaurant because the owner doesn't like your colour or religion is wrong. Being denied the same cup of coffee based on citizenship or nationality is wrong. Substitute the cup of coffee for any other commodity, it's the same principal, whether it be an itouch, a car, a camera or a cup of coffee.


Apple is not breaking civil law because of their right to protect from export based on probability (no US address linked to payment) and not because of your nationality. If anything, individual's privacy laws may be broken instead by credit card companies. If you are a Canadian living in the US, it's a matter of having a credit card with a US address and Apple will sell it to you even if you told them you were born in Canada. Same goes for any other credit card with a non-US address. I find it offensive to even put the african-american civil rights issues rooted in slavery and murder which denied basic human right to live, to the payment methods of buying an iPhone. Dumbest post I have read on ehmac to date. Sorry, but a harsh response was fitting.


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

kastytis said:


> Brain hurts? Think it through. It most definitely is a civil rights issue. Having grown up in the '60s, having followed the civil rights movement during that time, there are parallels. No, Walden Galleria isn't the deep south. but the same principal stands. Being denied service based on nationality or colour or whatever, it's all the same. Being denied a cup of coffee outright in a restaurant because the owner doesn't like your colour or religion is wrong. Being denied the same cup of coffee based on citizenship or nationality is wrong. Substitute the cup of coffee for any other commodity, it's the same principal, whether it be an itouch, a car, a camera or a cup of coffee.
> 
> That's my point. It's wrong to deny, and I'm pretty sure unconstitutional, or illegal in the States, to deny service, whether it be based on colour or country of origin. They can't refuse my money -- after converting at the local bank -- simply to protect their dealers and operations in Canada.
> 
> Go have a cup of coffee, it'll make your brain feel better.


This is a CELL PHONE!

I'm a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant male, as WASPish as they come although I like to think that I have a reasonably good sense of what is right and wrong and decent towards all of the human race. 

I'm appalled and embarrassed that a Canadian would try to associate the purchase of a CELL PHONE with what has happened throughout the civil rights movement in the United States.

Next you're going to say that ABC/NBC/CBS/Fox's ability to prevent you from watching last night's ... (insert TV show name here) ... from their web site allows you to compare yourself to Rosa Parks? 

Or that Apple preventing you from purchasing movies from the US ITMS allows you to compare yourself to Claudette Colvin? 

This is not even remotely close!

The Apple iPhone is a product that is currently NOT available for sale in Canada. There are no constitutional rights here. For business reasons, neither Apple nor any of it's authorized resellers are selling the iPhone in Canada, or Australia, or Mexico, or ... There are no carriers in any of those countries who have made agreements to provide service for the iPhone. So it stands to reason that if there is no way to legally obtain service for the product, which it needs to operate as per its design, then there is no legal reason why a resident of one of those countries needs to purchase an iPhone. Apple is doing what it can to protect the unauthorized use of this product in order to fulfil it's contractual obligations to it's iPhone partners. 

If you want to complain, go and stand in front of 777 Jarvis Street. All accounts point to Rogers as being the reason why the device is not legally available for sale in Canada. 

Take your laptop with you, and stop off at a Rogers Video store for one of Michael Moore's follow ups to _Roger & Me_. It may give you some ideas.


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

kastytis said:


> It most definitely is a civil rights issue. Having grown up in the '60s, having followed the civil rights movement during that time, there are parallels. No, Walden Galleria isn't the deep south. but the same principal stands.


You are right. Being denied an iPhone, and being denied the right to ride on a bus, drink from a water fountain, vote, and go to school are very parallel.



kastytis said:


> Being denied service based on nationality or colour or whatever, it's all the same. Being denied a cup of coffee outright in a restaurant because the owner doesn't like your colour or religion is wrong. Being denied the same cup of coffee based on citizenship or nationality is wrong. Substitute the cup of coffee for any other commodity, it's the same principal, whether it be an itouch, a car, a camera or a cup of coffee.


How about a rocket launcher? Can I buy one of those? Can I buy cocaine legally? Drat! I can buy a handgun in the States but not in Canada? DISCRIMINATION! Mmm...cuban cigars are sweet...but in the US? ILLEGAL!!! [edit ehMax - No personal attacks please]



kastytis said:


> That's my point. It's wrong to deny, and I'm pretty sure unconstitutional, or illegal in the States, to deny service, whether it be based on colour or country of origin.


It is NOT illegal to deny service to people who can't pay for it. Since you are not an American citizen, you can't sign up for AT&T Cellular Service. Since you can't sign up for cellular service, you can't activate your iPhone. Since you can't activate your iPhone, you can't purchase one. [edit ehMax - No personal attacks please]



kastytis said:


> They can't refuse my money -- after converting at the local bank -- simply to protect their dealers and operations in Canada.


Umm...yes they can. It's perfectly legal. [edit ehMax - No personal attacks please]


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## mikeinmontreal (Oct 13, 2005)

How about: (a) Buying locally (kijiji, etc) or (b) Ebay. If you have to have it, you have to pay the premium.


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## keebler27 (Jan 5, 2007)

just hang on tony. the iphone is coming here soon.


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## MACinist (Nov 17, 2003)

guytoronto said:


> It is NOT illegal to deny service to people who can't pay for it. Since you are not an American citizen, you can't sign up for AT&T Cellular Service. Since you can't sign up for cellular service, you can't activate your iPhone. Since you can't activate your iPhone, you can't purchase one.


Getting back to a the real issue here. Although Apple has a right to do this and credit card companies giving out the info is questionable, what are they doing against the thousands or millions of "homeland" purchases made for the sole purpose of using it with a non AT&T carrier? Instead of basing it solely on probability of export, how about having an AT&T representative at an Apple store signing up contracts mandatory with the purchase of an iPhone? At least it would convey the term of having to sign with an exclusive carrier equally to all "contract breaking purchasers". 

I'm just happy that I bought one before the gauntlet came down. Although, I'm sure if you looked around, they are not that hard to find.

FYI: this is not a whine, just an observation.


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

MACinist said:


> what are they doing against the thousands or millions of "homeland" purchases made for the sole purpose of using it with a non AT&T carrier?


That's what the "two per customer" limit and "no cash or gift cards" are about, though it'sthe latter that snares most Canadians. Apparently bulk buy/unlock/resell operations are/were springing up. That is the most worrisome group of unlockers, although they are obviously trying to limit all unlocking.


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## misty (Oct 31, 2007)

Yeah, you'd figure that AT&T would be the _only_ place you could get it... 

mi
I remember the days when there were no Apple stores.


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## Crewser (Jun 12, 2007)

Has anyone tried to purchase an iPhone from Apple in another state than a border state. Perhaps only the border or close to border states are on this alert. Not that I am advocating driving for hours or flying south to get one.

As others have mentioned... if you just have to have one... then buy it locally and pay the premium. The incurable itch to own one must come at a price or premium value. 

Sure I would like to have one, and being Canadian it is tougher now to get one. I have a brother and sister-in-law in California that I could buy them through, but I won't. I will wait until they are sold here and supported here. All the cell phones I have ever owned all develop some issue or another. Likely designed obsolescence. Our cell companies surely want to sell you another phone and lock you into another 3 year term. So when they finally get here, I want some sort of warranty be it minimal or not.

Steve


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## cap10subtext (Oct 13, 2005)

I would totally agree about the civil rights thing except for one problem: it's not that they are from Canada, it's their intended use of the product based on the price they pay at the licencing agent. An iPhone is not a cup of coffee. For companies to hand over anything to anyone with money is bad business, if you don't agree then you won't have a problem paying scalpers 300% for your all of your next concert tickets. Cell phone providers have dubious policies, absolutley, but people just don't get that you do not "buy" cell phones, you got to futuresh*p or a b*ll store and you are "licenced" to use one according to their terms. You are spared the cost of the technology (often 75 - 90%) of the cost of the phone by signing away your soul (and yes I know there's another can of worms there). The cost of the phone is countered by the time it's used.

And anyone who updates their firmware from an unlocked iPhone is infact violating their terms of service by getting something for nothing. For the record, I think it's awful that apple went so far as to "brick" the phone.

I agree there should be a way to buy the technology outright (though it would cost you more than a macbook), put an open source OS on it and (while money is no issue) launch my own satellite. No question. And if someone stopped you from doing that? You'd have a case for discrimination.


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

Sad that some believe that _want_ directly equates to _entitlement_. tptptptp


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## Garry (Jan 27, 2002)

The Doug said:


> Sad that some believe that _want_ directly equates to _entitlement_. tptptptp


:clap: That's an incredibly smart way of putting it. Simple, direct and to the point.


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## mac_geek (May 14, 2005)

I work in an industry where we prevent the sale of goods to certain customers all the time. It's not illegal, and in fact is very common.

(Ever wonder why so many things you see at Costco are unique? It's not because Loblaws, Walmart, etc., don't want to distribute them... they're prevented from distributing them from manufacturers that prefer to sell to Costco.)


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## zlinger (Aug 28, 2007)

Perhaps purchasing online is the way to go. Just have it shipped to a US shipping & receiving service near the border and then drive across and pick it up. I recently ordered a refurbished Apple Cinema monitor this way, and had no issues at all with using a Canadian credit card or my US mailing address. Maybe I should try ordering a couple of iPhones to see if it works?


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## jdurston (Jan 28, 2005)

It seems to me that it is very dangerous to say that a company's policies and agreements have the power to make something illegal or legal, the government decides that and it is enforced by the courts of law.

I'm no lawyer, but to me, to be illegal means, to break some sort of government instituted law. It does not mean to violate a companies terms of service agreement, especially if you haven't even signed a contract.

Personally I hope Apple burns a bit of signing a greedy exclusive deal with AT&T not that it wasn't legal though. I just don't like it from a customer's perspective.


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## fuzzyface (Oct 17, 2006)

Why get an iphone when its battery is glued AND soldered into place? It's useless when the battery dies. Sure, you can send it into Apple, and have THEM replace the battery at an inflated cost ($86 US + the usual 20-30% markup for Canadians, eh?), or you can toss it into the garbage (in the US they have a recycling program, but not here) and buy yourself a new iphone! Or, you could have an iphone wannabe and buy a cheap chinese-made knockoff. You could also just glue and solder your own cellphone battery in place, and have that tossed into the garbage when you're through!


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## SteveoSchwartzo (Oct 20, 2007)

Yes fuzzy, we shouldn't buy the thing because the battery can't be manually replaced...

Ok, prove me if I'm wrong, but aren't all iPod batteries the same way?

So, according to your logic, no one should buy a iPod, is that right?




And I was under the impression this was a Mac forum....


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## Demosthenes X (Sep 23, 2004)

fuzzyface said:


> Why get an iphone when its battery is glued AND soldered into place? It's useless when the battery dies. Sure, you can send it into Apple, and have THEM replace the battery at an inflated cost ($86 US + the usual 20-30% markup for Canadians, eh?), or you can toss it into the garbage (*in the US they have a recycling program, but not here*) and buy yourself a new iphone! Or, you could have an iphone wannabe and buy a cheap chinese-made knockoff. You could also just glue and solder your own cellphone battery in place, and have that tossed into the garbage when you're through!


Weird how they wouldn't have a recycling program here for a product they don't sell here...


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

fuzzyface said:


> ...or you can toss it into the garbage (in the US they have a recycling program, but not here)...





Demosthenes X said:


> Weird how they wouldn't have a recycling program here for a product they don't sell here...


Ah, but _they_ do. If you're not too lazy, I'm sure you can find a place that will take old cell phones. In my little town (pop. 15,000) the local french catholic school _wants_ us to donate old ink/toner cartridges, cell phones and batteries which they sell for recycling. It probably not a strong fundraiser, but it's certainly one of the easiest and it beats selling chocolates.


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

Demosthenes X said:


> Weird how they wouldn't have a recycling program here for a product they don't sell here...


They sell iPods and Computers in Canada too -- but according to the FAQ at apple.ca/environment/



www.apple.ca/environment said:


> Q * I live in Hawaii or Alaska; can I participate in free recycling program?
> A * The free recycling program only covers within the 48 contiguous United States or District of Columbia. Alaska and Hawaii are not eligible.


AKA no Canada -- even for products they sell here -- anyone got any other info? I've certainly never been asked about recycling when I've bought a mac from Apple.


Also -- what no-one seems to be asking here -- Walden (and even Niagara Falls NY) have AT&T stores ... anyone refused at the Apple Store and then gone to AT&T and bought an iPhone? Any problems?? Just curious.


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## Visnaut (Jul 22, 2004)

Firstly, and I say this as a Canadian iPhone owner, Apple has the right to do whatever it wants. I'm surprised they allowed sales to Canadians for as long as they did. Which brings me to my next point:

The sudden reversal on their previously liberal purchase policy might mean that a deal with Rogers is pending and soon to be announced. 

Before, Apple could be content with the added sales revenue from people who they would not otherwise be profiting from. Now it seems they want to funnel all of that demand for the iPhone in Canada into an all-but-confirmed Rogers deal.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

MacNN | iPhone credit card policy breaking laws?



> *iPhone credit card policy breaking laws?*
> 
> Apple may be violating standards and laws with its credit card policy for iPhones, an informal investigation has revealed. Typically, buying an iPhone at an Apple Store requires either a credit or a debit card, although it may be possible to pay as little as $1 of the $399 price in this way. The company does not accept payments entirely in cash however, and has not so far explained why. It is suspected that this is done to aid tracking purchases, since shoppers are limited to two phones per person, a measure to prevent bulk purchases for the gray market, whether domestically or in Europe, where the phones must also be hacked.
> 
> ...


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## kastytis (Oct 24, 2006)

Take your laptop with you, and stop off at a Rogers Video store for one of Michael Moore's follow ups to _Roger & Me_. It may give you some ideas.[/QUOTE]


You missed my point.

I have no desire for an iphone, itouch. Not in the least. I have no desire for a gun, a rocket launcher, Britney Spears' shorn locks, or whatever. I have no desire to even run across the border and pick up the latest Apple gadgetry. In fact, I don't even like carrying a cell phone, though I need one. I have no problem with Apple not selling in Canada. That's their business decision, for whatever reason. You totally missed the point. But when business decisions are allowed to co-opt rights, liberties -- even to purchase a white-middle class "cyber-objet d'art" such as the iphone by a consumer's own means -- it's a slippery, slippery slope to "what's best for the coporation." 

Michael Moore would agree with that.

Hey, and whatever happened with the customer is always right?

And as for civil rights, whatever I said here, I stand by. I made no comparisons to any of the leaders of the civil rights movement. My point is that civil rights extend to all people, in all circumstances, black, white, WASP, Latvian Orthodox (for those Seinfeld fans who can take a joke), and to techno-nerdish apple-loving middle class pie-in-the-sky-disposable income types. Of which I most certainly not one. 

Those rights extend to the mundane, the trivial everyday things, that we might not take notice, pooh-pooh or decide to throw up our hands in righteous indignation at the impertinence of someone like me. 

Enjoy the slippery slope.


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

kastytis said:


> Hey, and whatever happened with the customer is always right?


I firmly believe that this is something that customers made up so they had something to scream when they don't get what they want.


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## ferrdidly (Nov 2, 2007)

Although I bought one from the Apple Store in Buffalo last Thrusday night and had no problem. I also said I was an American student who was from Canada.. that might be why.

Just be more creative with your excuses.


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

kastytis said:


> Take your laptop with you, and stop off at a Rogers Video store for one of Michael Moore's follow ups to _Roger & Me_. It may give you some ideas.
> 
> 
> You missed my point.
> ...


No I did not miss your point. You were comparing the purchase of a cell phone to the civil right's movement.


> Having grown up in the '60s, having followed the civil rights movement during that time, there are parallels.


Doesn't a business have the right to set it's own policies? I'll repeat the logic that I attribute to Apple's business decision. There is no way that a resident (note that I didn't say citizen) of Canada can legally obtain service for an iPhone. The only authorized carriers for the iPhone are in the US, and now the UK and certain European countries. So if a resident of Canada cannot legally obtain service, Apple is well within their rights to prevent them from purchasing an iPhone at this time. 

This is not a "you can't eat at this counter", or "you can't sit in that seat on the bus" and I feel that comparing the two is an insult to those people whose civil rights have been violated over the years. 

This is simply "there is no way to use the product in your country, so there is no need for you to purchase this product".


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## JVRudnick (Aug 28, 2007)

Just read this whole thread....and still do not "know" -- if a canuck tries to buy a new iPhone at the Walden Apple store, can you do this with CASH and/or a credit card? ie if you say nothing about where you're from, can you not still buy a new iPhone?

Jim

PS got mine already and it's still at 1.0.2 and I do get the voicemail notification and the numbers are "in" the red circle etc. etc. As I dont' use it for music, I see no need to ever connect with iTunes etc -- I use iBricker to move over sounds and ringtones and that's all I need....anyone else "need" 1.1.1?


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## Darien Red Sox (Oct 24, 2006)

MacDoc said:


> » Video: Why Apple only takes credit cards for iPhones & the legal questions raised | Berlind’s Testbed | ZDNet.com
> 
> Indeed....


Apple is most likley keeping the name and adress of iPhone buyers in its data base. This is the same resion that you are required to use a credit card when you buy an airline tickit. Also difrent credit card rules problety apply when you buy a cell phone.


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## aladdin2007 (Nov 5, 2007)

Interesting thread. I bought mine in Buffalo 2 weekends ago and I was POed when I got there and they would only take a CC. They should have mentioned this over the phone. Plus my debit (and my gf's debit) didnt work. I spoke with the manager who was a total jerk.

Went to the AT&T store upstairs but you cant buy it there without a 2year contract. Apple is the only store where you can buy it as a "gift".

I finally found my CC in my car so went back to the store and proudly showed it to the jerk. Apple has definitely not made a friend in me!

Interstingly, when I looked at my bill, it had my name and email address. So the credit card swiping (they wouldnt accept the numbers from memory - they needed to see the actual card), must have logged me into some DB where the info I have with the creditor ended up showing on my bill of sale.

What an experience. Glad I didnt promise anyone I'd bring some back!


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Your information may not been scooped from a credit card database; have you ever bought anything from Apple before?



aladdin2007 said:


> Interstingly, when I looked at my bill, it had my name and email address. So the credit card swiping (they wouldnt accept the numbers from memory - they needed to see the actual card), must have logged me into some DB where the info I have with the creditor ended up showing on my bill of sale.


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## zhusain (May 9, 2007)

There are easy ways to get around this whole thing. Get a someone with a US credit card to buy the phone for you. Be it a friend or relative. There is nothing illegal with that. Anyways if everyone just calms down and takes a breather the iPhone will come to Canada and then people can spend their money on it here. 

As for the actual phone, why not just purchase the iPod Touch? Why go through all of the trouble? The visual voice mail does not work here, unlocking of the iPhone will be blocked by future OS updates. Is that worth all the trouble? Just wait for the iPhone to come to Canada. Also the phone is only 2.5g meaning that data transfer is slow and the memory is not upgradeable and the battery is not accessible!! I like Apple and their products but I am waiting for the 2nd or 3rd generation of the iPhone, (just compare a 1st Gen iPod with the latest available today!:yikes: :yikes:


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## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

I am blown away by the stupidity displayed in this thread. To equate Apple refusing to sell to non-US citizens as being a civil rights issue is beyond ridiculous. IT IS ABOUT BUSINESS, DEAL BROKERING WITH ROGERS -- AND OTHER FOREIGN CELLCO's, GOVERNMENT APPROVALS ETC. ETC.

i.e.: MONEY and REGULATIONS

"civil rights discrimination" and slippery slopes?! Slap yourself across the face and get real.


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## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

The Doug said:


> Sad that some believe that _want_ directly equates to _entitlement_. tptptptp


This runs rampant in society. Bunch of BABIES.


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## kastytis (Oct 24, 2006)

Macaholic said:


> This runs rampant in society. Bunch of BABIES.


I was not going to reply to any of this, since enough's been said, I won't at this time at length. But those who are writing in capitals, exclamation marks and snide comments -- that is not an argument, reasoned or otherwise. 

Did it touch a nerve? Good. But give me reason, not caps.


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## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

lol.

sorta.


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## draz (Jun 13, 2005)

So wait a second, AT&T in buffalo will NOT sell you an iphone without signing up for a contract?

is that correct?


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## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

Oh Lord. Why did you resurrect this stupid thread, man.


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

draz said:


> So wait a second, AT&T in buffalo will NOT sell you an iphone without signing up for a contract?
> 
> is that correct?


Do you just randomly search for old threads, resurrect them, and expect a continuation of the discussion after 3 months?


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

guytoronto said:


> Do you just randomly search for old threads, resurrect them, and expect a continuation of the discussion after 3 months?


Is that a rhetorical question?

Asked and answered.


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## draz (Jun 13, 2005)

Nah just bored...ha ha i was searching for video converters for iphone (isquint) and cam across this in the search. But i have never heard of this before.


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## ericlewis91 (Jul 12, 2007)

well the at&t. In port huron let me pay 400in cash and rest with visa! Got a 1.1.2 as well


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

Garry said:


> :clap: That's an incredibly smart way of putting it. Simple, direct and to the point.



Yes. Simple, direct and to the point. Also succinct and straightforward. Not to mention honest, plain-spoken, forthright, no-nonsense and matter-of-fact. Blunt even. This poster was not afraid to call a spade a spade and was very frank and candid about it. 

Courtesy of the department of redundancy department.


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## 9mmCensor (Jan 27, 2006)

Say you live in the USA...



kastytis said:


> This whole thing about american retailers with canadian "subsidiaries" refusing to sell to Canadians truly smacks of discrimination -- economic -- base on the sole reason of our dollar.
> 
> There was a whole civil rights movement in the '60s based on not being allowed service in a simple diner or not having to sit in the back of the bus.
> 
> ...


The reason for it is because when Apple sells a phone that doesn't go on a carrier that Apple has a sales agreement with (ATT,O2,ect) they lose out on alot of money.

Apple doesn't care about getting awesome iphones into the hands of as many people as possible, but it cares to sell as many iphones that are used on the networks it has agreements with to increase profits long term through the revenue sharing model it has setup.

So selling to a Canadian is a sure way to avoid those juicy profits from the carrier, because there is no Canadian carrier.


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

Can somebody please put this thread out of its misery?


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

So has anyone looked to see if Apple breaking any NAFTA regulations by refusing to sell to Canadians?

I'm not a NAFTA expert but you never know what is hidden in stuff like that.


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## ericlewis91 (Jul 12, 2007)

da_jonesy said:


> So has anyone looked to see if Apple breaking any NAFTA regulations by refusing to sell to Canadians?
> 
> I'm not a NAFTA expert but you never know what is hidden in stuff like that.


just tell apple or at&t its a gift

they cant say no


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

Two more opinions. Two more baseless speculations. The continuation of a thread that should have died long ago.


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## draz (Jun 13, 2005)

I will be in NY this weekend and will inquire, but i assume if you merely say you are on a contract working in the us that it would not really be an issue, but i will try this out.

Draz


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## Corvillus (Nov 15, 2007)

The whole thing is a non-issue. Apple and AT&T both may or may not sell you an iPhone on a Canadian credit card. It really comes down to whether or not the clerk is having a bad day, or whether or not the manager is watching. I've purchased 2 iPhones from 2 different AT&T stores in the Detroit area on a Canadian credit card, and in both cases I told them it was a gift, so they didn't bother doing the credit check. They either didn't know what unlocking was, or knew I was unlocking, in either case, they didn't care. The clerks probably have very little motivation to prevent unlockers from buying the phones, as there's no surefire way to prove that any given iPhone will end up being used on AT&T at the time of sale.

Besides, it should be fairly easy to find an American to buy the phone for you if you really do get into a situation where you're rejected, and barring that you could just offer people around the store $450 to buy the phone...somebody will probably take you up on the offer to make the quick $25. Or, as was said before, buy it on eBay for a higher premium.


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## Cuzz323 (May 3, 2007)

Apple doesn't really care they want you to buy their hardware , but if you don't live in the states most likely you'll be unlocking the phone and that hurts AT&T and the deal they have,

it makes perfect sense why they don't want you buying it and exporting it because their partners are losing business, now I'm sure if you were to buy any other item in the apple store they won't turn you down because nothing else has a monthly subscription fee attached to it.

Don't take it personal it's just business 
and if you really want one you can get one, it's just a matter of if you're willing to pay more than retail.


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## Veej (Feb 16, 2006)

I think past Buffalo any Apple or AT&T will sell you the phone, cause they're not used to many Canadians shopping across like the mass herd Buffalo has to encounter, I bet the Buffalo stores probably sold more iPhones than majority of other US stores, which raised eyebrows in Cupertino, and then they figured out that they were selling most of them to Canadians than Americans..:lmao:


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## MacBookinToronto (Aug 9, 2005)

my advice:
pay in cash (yes, it looks shady but people do it all the time)...and when they ask for your postal code make one up (just do some research beforehand so you have a real US postal code)
The only way they can tell you're Canadian is if you use your credit card...so take that variable away and you're in the clear


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

sports6654 said:


> my advice:
> pay in cash (yes, it looks shady but people do it all the time)...
> ~snip~
> ...and you're in the clear


Said the guy who's never bought an iPhone, or bothered reading the very thread he posted in. 

I'm not trying to be an ass, but let's make sure anyone who reads this thread and wants to buy an iPhone from the U.S. and is prepared to only pay cash, that they _may_ be disappointed following your advice.


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## MacBookinToronto (Aug 9, 2005)

This is true...I have yet to buy my iPhone...but I have worked at Apple Retail and am more or less familiar with the policies (although it is possile that the Bufalo store has specific policies in place for this very problem)
My advice was more out of my own assumptions and was not meant to be rude or presumptious...so if it came off that way I apologize.
But it does make sense that if you pay in cash there really is no way for them to know you're a Canadian. Am I wrong?




Bjornbro said:


> Said the guy who's never bought an iPhone, or bothered reading the very thread he posted in.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

guytoronto said:


> Two more opinions. Two more baseless speculations. The continuation of a thread that should have died long ago.


Looks more like a kangaroo if you ask me.


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## messed_kid (Jun 13, 2007)

macmac said:


> Why even tell them your Canadian???


Since OP said they tried using a debit card, I'm assuming it was from a typical Canadian bank. IE.. CIBC


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