# Clapton Raps Rockers Bono and Geldof



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Finally someone with the sense to tell it like it is:


Clapton raps rockers for political meddling

Randy Boswell

Edmonton Journal, August 25, 2005

He's had rocky relationships with U2 frontman Bono and Live 8 organizer Sir Bob Geldof, but Prime Minister Paul Martin can at least claim Eric Clapton as a celebrity defender.

In excerpts from an interview with the German magazine Stern, the legendary guitar rocker takes shots at both Bono and Geldof for acting more like politicians than musicians.

He specifically criticizes Geldof's actions earlier this summer when he told Martin to increase Canada's budget for foreign aid or stay out of the Live 8 limelight.

"What gives him the right to do that?" Clapton, of Lay Down Sally and Tears in Heaven fame, told Stern. "I ask myself, if musicians should conduct themselves like politicians? They are only musicians. Where do they get the right to talk like that?"

Martin, who has learned that rock 'n' roll, like politics, is a vicious game, will likely welcome Clapton's comments after Bono recently threaten to "kick his butt" and Geldof told him to "stay home" from the G-8 summit in Scotland unless he was prepared to boost Canada's commitment to help developing countries.

Stern's complete interview with the 60-year-old Clapton is to be published today, but snippets posted Wednesday on the magazine's German-language website, and quickly reported around the world, highlighted his impatience with celebrities, such as Geldof, using their fame to push political causes.

"Does he really want to be this political leader, as he makes himself out to be?" Clapton says of Geldof, who shot from minor fame as lead singer of the Irish band Boomtown Rats to global acclaim and a knighthood as leader of the anti-famine Band Aid movement in the 1980s.

In a recent interview about his new album Back Home, Clapton said: "This album had to be about the family because what else in my life could I sing about? I don't have any interest in politics."


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## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

There is nothing wrong with musicians making criticisms of politicians. Social commentary has been an element of artistic expression since the cave walls.

But the commentary really belongs IN the work, not in interviews.

Oh wait. Bob Geldof hasn't made music for years.

Really, Martin deserves being criticized by Bono. What statesman invites a rock star, who isn't even Canadian, to make a speech at a leadership convention?


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## rogueToe (Dec 13, 2002)

If lawyers and businessmen can become politicians, why not musicians?


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## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

rogueToe said:


> If lawyers and businessmen can become politicians, why not musicians?


Nothing wrong with it at all. Of course, Bono and Geldof are not politicians.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

> Finally someone with the sense to tell it like it is:


Wow... a self serving commentary from a washed up blues man who turned the awesome classic rock song Layla, into a boring lounge song. 

Tell me like it is Eric.


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## Rob (Sep 14, 2002)

I thought that was the whole point of democracy. We all have a right to an opinion and we should be exercising that right.

Ronnie and Ahnold have done all right for a couple of two bit actors. I don't see how Bono or Geldolf are doing much different.

It won't matter what side of the political spectrum you're on. If we all just decide to shut up and play nice then we'll know we're in a dictatorship.

If Eric doesn't agree with their opinions then he should offer some of his own. Now that would be interesting.


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## Moscool (Jun 8, 2003)

Hey Mr Mayor, I know that U2's blood runs in your veins, but pleeeaaaase don't compare Gawd with a pop band that turns out the odd hit   

I guess that Clapton's comment was more about his lack of personal interest in politics than anything else. Bono and Geldof are in different positions: G. has been working pretty much full time on political issues for the last 20 years. In this respect Roger Moore (through his work for Unicef) has a greater political 'right' to use his fame than U2.

Bottom line for me is that it's OK for any of them to mingle into politics provided that:

- We don't get a shallow single sided story every time (à la PETA)
- Over-exposure doesn't kill the issue

I am anxiously waiting for the rocker who will have the courage to argue that globalisation is actually good for developing countries; but that is probably wishful thinking...


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Moscool said:


> Hey Mr Mayor, I know that U2's blood runs in your veins, but pleeeaaaase don't compare Gawd with a pop band that turns out the odd hit


:clap: There isn't a member of Bono's pop band who can hold a candle to the guitar playing of Eric Clapton.


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## Rob (Sep 14, 2002)

I'm voting for Jimi, but he's been awful quiet for the last 35 years.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Eric Clapped-out. Another guy who should have retired when he stopped generating quality music (like the Stones). What is it with burnt-out British rockers? The first time they have to play a casino, they should quit.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

SINC said:


> :clap: There isn't a member of Bono's pop band who can hold a candle to the guitar playing of Eric Clapton.


  For the record, I love Eric Clapton's guitar playing. He truly is (was) one of the best. It's just that lately, he's sounding a little lounge lizardish, and many think his time has past. 

As for holding a candle to his playing, The Edge is one of the greatest pioneers of guitar, and has a truly amazing unique sound. Rated on Rolling Stone as the 24th best of all time in some pretty good company of 100 other guitarist. 

Personally, pound for pound I think The Edge has more talent than Eric, the Eminem of Blues.  

Sinc... I can see why you like Eric's statement... hot air criticism with nothing really to say.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ehMax said:


> Sinc... I can see why you like Eric's statement... hot air criticism with nothing really to say.


Ever stopped to think that Bono's criticism of Canada and the PM fit that description as well to many of us Mr. Mayor?


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## AppleAuthority (May 21, 2005)

Rob said:


> I'm voting for Jimi, but he's been awful quiet for the last 35 years.



LMAO! Nice one.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

SINC said:


> Ever stopped to think that Bono's criticism of Canada and the PM fit that description as well to many of us Mr. Mayor?


Yes, I'm aware of your ignorance. I can provide all the links, references, corrections and information, but I'm quite certain your mind will never be changed.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ehMax said:


> Yes, I'm aware of your ignorance. I can provide all the links, references, corrections and information, but I'm quite certain your mind will never be changed.


You are correct sir, it won't change, but I will refrain from calling you ignorant for your views. My sympathies that as Mayor you feel the need to do so to me, for my views. That is very un-mayor like of you.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

SINC said:


> You are correct sir, it won't change, but I will refrain from calling you ignorant for your views. Too bad as Mayor you feel the need to do so to me for mine.


I'll feel the need to call a spade a spade, everytime *you chose* to post an ignorant viewpoint about Bono on this board. Especially, with ignorant statements like "_Bono's criticism of Canada_."


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ehMax said:


> I'll feel the need to call a spade a spade, everytime *you chose* to post an ignorant viewpoint about Bono on this board. Especially, with ignorant statements like "_Bono's criticism of Canada_."


So what do you call it if it is not "criticism" of Canada and it's PM?

If you're going to call a spade a spade, what other name does this go by: 

http://www.aversion.com/news/news_article.cfm?news_id=4200

Walks like a duck, squaks like a duck, it's a . . . ?


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

ehMax said:


> Personally, pound for pound I think The Edge has more talent than Eric, the Eminem of Blues.


The Edge is what? 95lbs with the guitar....

And what does the Eminem of Blues means? 
Blues came before Eminem.
It's akin to me calling U2 the Paul Anka of Rap....


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"Walks like a duck, squaks like a duck, it's a . . . " ... duck.

Mr. Mayor, while I don't always agree with Sinc's views about PM Martin, I was a bit surprised at your use of words to describe his views.


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## AppleAuthority (May 21, 2005)

I'm sorry but Rap plainly sucks. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble but it does. At least, most of the rap I hear.

Clapton on the other hand, well, regardless of what he says, he still can play like no other.


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## andrewenterprise (May 22, 2005)

Agreed


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## iPetie (Nov 25, 2003)

ehMax said:


> Personally, pound for pound I think The Edge has more talent than Eric, the Eminem of Blues.
> 
> Sinc... I can see why you like Eric's statement... hot air criticism with nothing really to say.


Pardon Me, Edge is but a mediocre guitar player with a unique sound.
Eric Clapton is widely considered by guitarists of all genres as a god.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

SINC said:


> So what do you call it if it is not "criticism" of Canada and it's PM?
> 
> If you're going to call a spade a spade, what other name does this go by:
> 
> ...


It's pretty ridiculous to think that taking issue with a very specific issue with the PM is a criticism to all of Canada. 

Bono's lifelong work has been the crisis in Africa. Paul Martin invited Bono to speak at the Liberal convention and made commitments to Bono that he would commit to .7% of foreign Aid like many other countries have in worse shape than Canada. Bono said, he would be a pain in Paul's ass if he reneged, and Paul Martin has and continues to encourage him to do so. 

Paul Martin reneged, so Bono is taking him to task on that issue. 

That's not a "criticism of Canada".


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ehMax said:


> It's pretty ridiculous to think that taking issue with a very specific issue with the PM is a criticism to all of Canada.
> 
> Bono's lifelong work has been the crisis in Africa. Paul Martin invited Bono to speak at the Liberal convention and made commitments to Bono that he would commit to .7% of foreign Aid like many other countries have in worse shape than Canada. Bono said, he would be a pain in Paul's ass if he reneged, and Paul Martin has and continues to encourage him to do so.
> 
> ...


So let me get this straight.

If I criticize Bono, it follows I criticize U2.

But if Bono criticizes our PM, it follows he criticizes . . . ?

Let me guess, just Ontario?


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## AppleAuthority (May 21, 2005)

I do agree however, that Geldof really doesn't need to say "stay home" to our PM. No matter what, this guy is running Canada. If you don't like it, have your Canadian friends vote differently next election. Canada's foreign aid is quite large as it is, and while that does not justify the pain and misery Africans are living in to date, we cannot keep raising foreign aid and pay higher taxes when our income isn't going up.

In fact, now that I look at it, everything but our income seems to be going up in the last 10 years (give or take).


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## comprehab (May 28, 2005)

AppleAuthority said:


> I'm sorry but Rap plainly sucks. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble but it does. At least, most of the rap I hear.
> 
> Clapton on the other hand, well, regardless of what he says, he still can play like no other.


You've obviously never sat down and listened to some Nina Gordon...


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## andrewenterprise (May 22, 2005)

SINC said:


> So let me get this straight.
> 
> If I criticize Bono, it follows I criticize U2.
> 
> ...


He criticizes the Canadian Government.... NOT Canada.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

andrewenterprise said:


> He criticizes the Canadian Government.... NOT Canada.


Uh, so the Canadian Government is not Canada? Spare me!


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## comprehab (May 28, 2005)

Here in Canada we elect our government, and the government is therefore a reflection of our society (Canada). By critisuzing the Canadian government he is therefore critisizing...(fill in the blank  )


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

iPetie said:


> Pardon Me, Edge is but a mediocre guitar player with a unique sound.
> Eric Clapton is widely considered by guitarists of all genres as a god.


That's what the internet needs... another, "My favourite guitar player is better than yours" thread. 

I'm interested in unique, and think that's real talent.


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## AppleAuthority (May 21, 2005)

comprehab said:


> Here in Canada we elect our government, and the government is therefore a reflection of our society (Canada). By critisuzing the Canadian government he is therefore critisizing...(fill in the blank  )


Well the only thing I can say to that is I wouldn't vote Liberal if I was old enough to vote. But your point is well taken.


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## iPetie (Nov 25, 2003)

ehMax said:


> That's what the internet needs... another, "My favourite guitar player is better than yours" thread.
> 
> I'm interested in unique, and think that's real talent.


Please, you opened the subject. Did you honestly think there would be no reaction to calling Eric Clapton the "eminem of blues".

For the record, I'm fans of both U2 and Eric, however, your comparison with the Edge is weak.

As to the subject at hand, it's politics and Bono is trying to influence our politics for all the right reasons in the wrong way. He severely underestimates Canadians understanding of foreign aid and the costs involved. His criticism of Martin has only served to extract the opposite of his intended goal. An education as to costs and what it means to the average Canadian.

That's why politics should be left to politicians! Music should be left to musicians. Political statements by musicians should be in the music. It's more effective that way.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

> If I criticize Bono, it follows I criticize U2.


   

Not necessarily, but with you, maybe I guess. 

Bono took issue with Martin on a specific issue. If you actually heard the CBC interview, he gives a lot of respect to Paul Martin, still considers him a friend, and heaps tons of admiration on Canada as a country. 

They did their rehearsals for the first leg of their tour in Vancouver, shot a video there, and are going to be doing rehearsals for the 3rd leg of their tour in Toronto before their 4 sold out shows at the ACC.


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## Paul O'Keefe (Jun 3, 2005)

At least Bono didn't **** on Canada like when my Premier took down the Canadian Flag on public buildings.


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## AppleAuthority (May 21, 2005)

Good call there, Paul.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

> Did you honestly think there would be no reaction to calling Eric Clapton the "eminem of blues".


Ok.. I'll take that one back.  But I never compared The Edge to Eric. 



> As to the subject at hand, it's politics and Bono is trying to influence our politics for all the right reasons in the wrong way. He severely underestimates Canadians understanding of foreign aid and the costs involved. His criticism of Martin has only served to extract the opposite of his intended goal. An education as to costs and what it means to the average Canadian.
> 
> That's why politics should be left to politicians! Music should be left to musicians. Political statements by musicians should be in the music. It's more effective that way.


I think you totally, totally underestimate what Bono and his organizations involvement in politics has accomplished in terms of global debt relief, aid increase and general awareness. 

The only thing that happened in Canada to the intended goal was Paul Martin backing out. Paul decided to be a finance minister instead of a Canadian Prime Minister.


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## _Outcast_ (Oct 17, 2003)

I don't see how you can even compare Clapton and the Edge. Clapton plays guitar while the Edge plays a rack full of digital delay units. Apples and oranges.

Jerry


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## AppleAuthority (May 21, 2005)

I haven't heard anything quite like "Layla" or "Classical Gas" by any other guitarist. One that sings and plays at the same time, anyway.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

_Outcast_ said:


> I don't see how you can even compare Clapton and the Edge. Clapton plays guitar while the Edge plays a rack full of digital delay units. Apples and oranges.
> 
> Jerry


Yes, and 17 different guitars per show. All in the relentless pursuit of the perfect sound. 

I'm sorry, but to me, a straight Fender and an amp is very boring. 

I mean come on... as soon as Dylan went to an electric guitar, he sold out!!!


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## AppleAuthority (May 21, 2005)

Add a wah pedal, my friend. Then be like Floyd and add effects and different instruments. Play your guitar smoothly. That will never be boring.

Oh, and try a Gibson Les Paul.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

ehMax said:


> Yes, and 17 different guitars per show. All in the relentless pursuit of the perfect sound.
> 
> I'm sorry, but to me, a straight Fender and an amp is very boring.
> 
> I mean come on... as soon as Dylan went to an electric guitar, he sold out!!!


You ask us to stay on course in the debate an then you spout this?

As echoed, Clapton is a musician that not only can play, he writes some catchy tunes. From Mayal, The Yardbirds, Cream, Derek and the Dominos to solo he has showed talent and innovation. Furthermore, he can play with other musicians and adapt to their styles.

The Edge is the poster boy for effects laden sound.
Any cover by U2, really sucks, the playing is atrocious. Clapton can make any song his own as well as show a mastery with a straight up version.

Before you foam at the mouth, this is not evaluating the music each produce....


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## Josh (Mar 12, 2002)

ehMax said:


> Yes, and 17 different guitars per show. All in the relentless pursuit of the perfect sound.
> 
> I'm sorry, but to me, a straight Fender and an amp is very boring.
> 
> I mean come on... as soon as Dylan went to an electric guitar, he sold out!!!


Boring? I guess you're entitled to your opinion, but at least Clapton doesn't hide behind effects. In the majority of U2 songs I have trouble even distinguishing the guitar from all the other noise. The Edge uses so many effects he just ends up sounding like mud.


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## Rob (Sep 14, 2002)

As we all cool off here's a neat little quiz for ya'll.

At the top of the page there are four ad links that show up on my screen. Which one doesn't fit?

Cellulite Treatment Chart
- Ranking of the top cellulite treatments for 2005

Eric Clapton Sheet Music
- Huge selection of new & used, check out the deals now.

Eric Clapton Crossroads
- Save on the DVD from this public television smash hit.

Eric Clapton Sheet Music
- Eric Clapton official sheet music, songbooks and instruction DVDs etc

O.K. that was an easy one, but now I want you to figure out how the one that doesn't fit relates to the thread. Or could it be something more sinister?


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

> Clapton is a musician that not only can play, he writes some catchy tunes


And then, turn them into lounge tunes.  



> The Edge is the poster boy for effects laden sound.


From the amp one chooses, to the pick one chooses, to the strings you select, to the guitar one selects, everyone is going for a certain "effect". Edge's genius, is that he can control so many effects with ease. 

The Edge can play with and exchange chops with the best of them when a song calls for it. Mostly, he tries hard to strip it down as much as possible. Three beautifully placed shimmering notes can sometimes sound 10x better than any technically challenging rift. 



> Any cover by U2, really sucks, the playing is atrocious.


Er... I agree on that one.  All Along the Watch Tower is embarrasing to watch when U2 plays it. But Bono is the king at inserting cool little snippets from other songs. Black Bird Singing at the end of Beautiful Day at Live 8 gave me chills. 

Before we go on.. my props to Clapton. He's the man.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

ehMax, we should really debate this sometime. You have gracefully handled this.
BTW, I do own more U2 albums than Clapton if this is any consolation.... 
The sound of the Mobile Fidelity pressings are good....


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Josh said:


> Boring? I guess you're entitled to your opinion, but at least Clapton doesn't hide behind effects. In the majority of U2 songs I have trouble even distinguishing the guitar from all the other noise. The Edge uses so many effects he just ends up sounding like mud.


I guess I love mud.


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## iPetie (Nov 25, 2003)

ehMax said:


> The Edge can play with and exchange chops with the best of them when a song calls for it. Mostly, he tries hard to strip it down as much as possible. Three beautifully placed shimmering notes can sometimes sound 10x better than any technically challenging rift.


You just described Clapton - LOL


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## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

Rob said:


> Ronnie and Ahnold have done all right for a couple of two bit actors. I don't see how Bono or Geldolf are doing much different.


Ronnie and Ahnold became politicians. And Sonny Bono, too! Bono and Geldof aren't.


Rob said:


> If Eric doesn't agree with their opinions then he should offer some of his own.


Why? He already said he wasn't interested in politics.

With Clapton, the media stories are about him and his music. With Bono, it's about him and his opinions. And his ego. There isn't very much thoughtful content to be found in U2's music. If Bono has so much to say politically, why isn't it in his music? Bullet the Blue Sky was a long, long time ago.

Ed the Sock lambasted Bono is a "documentary" about "promosexuals." Let's hear Ed's take on Bono's "charity" organization:


Ed the Sock said:


> DATA’s professed goals are: “…to raise awareness about, and spark response to the crises swamping Africa: unpayable Debts, uncontrolled spread of AIDS, and unfair Trade rules which keep Africans poor.” – That’s a lot of newspeak which basically means they’ve created a charity to inform us that Africa is impoverished and ridden with illnesses.
> 
> Sally Struthers has been doing that in one minute TV commercials for 20 years. So, nobody else is working for African aid? HMMMMM…. So it seems that maybe there ARE a few others dabbling in the cause. So why create another charity to do what others have already been doing?
> 
> ...


link: http://www.edthesock.com/News/print/sid=87.html

And how do you really take the opinion of a man seriously, when he pays no taxes? http://www.thestage.co.uk/news/newsstory.php/7220/prominent-irish-artists-benefit-from-tax


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

lpkmckenna... LMAO.....   

Using Ed the Sock as a reference. That takes "grasping for straws" to a whole new level.  

And by the way.. its funny that this is the first I've heard from the press about Clapton since he got dumped by Sheryl Crow. And ironically, the only time I've seen press related to his music is when he's been at a benefit concert.  



> And how do you really take the opinion of a man seriously, when he pays no taxes? http://www.thestage.co.uk/news/news...enefit-from-tax


This from someone who uses Ed the Sock as a reference!  And doesn't quite have any facts straight? There are tax breaks on U2's publishing in Ireland, which is about 1/3rd of their revenue. The rest of their income, they pay millions of taxes on. And they have stated that even if the tax incentives where gone, they'd still live there. (You may not have noticed that they were all born there and have lived there all their lives) It's kind of like faulting a Canadian artist for not paying for healthcare. 

As for "no thoughtful content in their music". I'd be more inclined to really go into detail if you knew what you were talking about. I'll just relegate your comments as being from the same calibre as Ed the Sock and others in the U2-hating fraternity, who think they sound cool and witty by spouting off uniformed sound bites.


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## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

Quoting Ed the Sock is shocking to even me. But I gotta say, I was even more shocked to hear the things he said about Bono. It was really intense.

But I suppose taking the opinions of rock stars concerning famine is more bizarre than taking the opinions of a knitted wool sock on rock stars.

Here's some more info on the Irish "tax relief" scheme: http://www.thestage.co.uk/news/newsstory.php/5857



the mayor said:


> It's kind of like faulting a Canadian artist for not paying for healthcare.


Not it's not. Canadian artists pay for healthcare, thru taxes.

I used to be a U2 fan. Achtung Baby was a really great album. Things went sour for them after that.


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## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

By the way, mayor, you never rebutted the charge that Bono's "charity" is really a political lobby group. What do you say?


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## yo_paully (Sep 20, 2004)

It's a shame that the *messengers* receive more attention than the *message*. Sad.


MESSAGE: 
There are about 28 million people infected with HIV/AIDS in Sub-Saharan Africa, without intervention many of those people are going to die.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

yo_paully said:


> It's a shame that the *messengers* receive more attention than the *message*. Sad.
> 
> 
> MESSAGE:
> There are about 28 million people infected with HIV/AIDS in Sub-Saharan Africa, without intervention many of those people are going to die.


Too right.


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

Clapton is a great guitarist but there is NOTHING original about him. The man litterally followed JJ Cale around and scooped up everything he wrote like Cocaine and After Midnight. If it wasn't Cale it was someone else's (like Bob Marley's (I Shot the Sheriff))songs.
I just felt the need to set the record straight.


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## ErnstNL (Apr 12, 2003)

It's a sad reflection to see this thread about BONO and ERIC CLAPTON
turn into a pis*ing match about guitar styles of EDGE and ERIC CLAPTON.
Hey, Bono plays guitar too. Not that great.
They are all accomplished musicians and I don't really CARE about Bono's opinions about my country. Or Eric's opinions on Bono for that matter.
Eric had a point of view and expressed it. Get over it.
Sinc, you trouble maker you! 
I got over it before it was ever over to begin with.
Wha?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ErnstNL said:


> Sinc, you trouble maker you!
> I got over it before it was ever over to begin with.
> Wha?


Sorry, but as long as Bono chooses to shoot his mouth off about our country and its policies, I will continue to shoot my mouth off that he has no business in our affairs.

As for the peein' match about music, if you read back I certainly did not start that line of dialogue, it was the Mayor himself who opened with the salvo about lounge music, although I do admit I defended Clapton.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

SINC said:


> Sorry, but as long as Bono chooses to shoot his mouth off about our country and its policies, I will continue to shoot my mouth off that he has no business in our affairs.


Sinc, I rarely agree with you.
I don't like the way you are wording this, but I'm behind you in it's sentiment.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

ArtistSeries said:


> Sinc, I rarely agree with you.
> I don't like the way you are wording this, but I'm behind you in it's sentiment.


One could say the same about people's conversations here about our friends south of the border. 

But, I have a feeling people will say what they want, when they want.


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

{sarcasm} yes if you are not a politition you have no right to critisize polititians
If you are not a director you have no right to critisize movies
{/sarcasm}
I think you get my point.


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## ErnstNL (Apr 12, 2003)

We're all good Canadians here, Sinc. 
I think Bono has disappeared from the Canadian landscape for a while now. 
LPMcK brings up some good points though.


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## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

yo_paully said:


> It's a shame that the *messengers* receive more attention than the *message*.


There's no message in U2's music anymore. I looked for it, but I still haven't found it. 

And it's really hard to listen to a man preach about charity, when that man starts a "charity" that doesn't actually help anyone, and who pays no taxes.

It would be like listening to Micheal Moore as the spokesman for Jenny Craig.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

lpkmckenna said:


> There's no message in U2's music anymore. I looked for it, but I still haven't found it.
> 
> And it's really hard to listen to a man preach about charity, when that man starts a "charity" that doesn't actually help anyone, and who pays no taxes.
> 
> It would be like listening to Micheal Moore as the spokesman for Jenny Craig.


lpkmckenna, data.org and Bono's politically lobbying with virtually every head of state in the G8 was largely responsible for *BILLIONS* of dollars in increases in foreign Aid, with Billions more in debt relief. Plus, the lobby for fair trade with African countries. 

If you're not familiar with the details, why try to pretend you know what your talking about?

Also, as I've said, U2 pays Pays millions in taxes to Ireland. Only 1/3rd of their publishing revenue's are tax exempt. 

And again, as to U2 having messages in their songs. If you knew just a tiny bit on the subject of U2, I'd get into a meaningful discussion with you.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

> Sorry, but as long as Bono chooses to shoot his mouth off about our country and its policies, I will continue to shoot my mouth off that he has no business in our affairs.


Grab a clue SINC...

The PM invited him to our country to talk about our foreign aid policies.

Anyone in the world is free to talk about our foreign aid policies.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

ehMax said:


> And again, as to U2 having messages in their songs. If you knew just a tiny bit on the subject of U2, I'd get into a meaningful discussion with you.


Mayor, please give an example. I'm not a fan of Bono, but do like U2s music. I have never really heard a message.
I'm still trying to figure out Gloria....


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## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

ehMax said:


> lpkmckenna, data.org and Bono's politically lobbying with virtually every head of state in the G8 was largely responsible for *BILLIONS* of dollars in increases in foreign Aid, with Billions more in debt relief. Plus, the lobby for fair trade with African countries.


"Largely" is unwarranted, as the G8 was already meeting with the intent of discussing African development. Attributing the movement of BILLIONS of dollars to the lobbying of one man is just silly. Bono didn't invent debt-relief, for God's sake. It's an idea whose time has come, and Bono is just the most flamboyant spokesperson.



ehMax said:


> Also, as I've said, U2 pays Pays millions in taxes to Ireland. Only 1/3rd of their publishing revenue's are tax exempt.


So you've said. Because that's what Bono said. But there is more to it.

And you didn't read you own reference. It's not that 1/3 of their publishing income is tax-exempt. It's 1/3 of their income is from publishing, all tax-free.

Undoubtedly Bono must pay his property taxes and such. As well, income from selling t-shirts and other merchandising (which is big money) is taxed. And, of course, income from concert tickets is taxed.

But royalties are tax-free. That means, if U2 were to cut an album and sell it, then stay home watching tv, every penny of their income they'd keep. It's only when they leave the house to play and sell posters that they are taxed. 



ehMax said:


> If you're not familiar with the details, why try to pretend you know what your talking about?
> 
> And again, as to U2 having messages in their songs. If you knew just a tiny bit on the subject of U2, I'd get into a meaningful discussion with you.


You seem to think you know what I know. You don't, unless you are a mind-reader.

And if "you knew just a tiny bit on the subject" of your own references, you'd be much more convincing.


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## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

ehMax said:


> Grab a clue SINC...
> 
> The PM invited him to our country to talk about our foreign aid policies.
> 
> Anyone in the world is free to talk about our foreign aid policies.


Can't disagree with ya here, mayor.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ehMax said:


> Grab a clue SINC...
> 
> The PM invited him to our country to talk about our foreign aid policies.
> 
> Anyone in the world is free to talk about our foreign aid policies.


Want to bet after his latest comments he never gets asked back by any future PM?


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

Am I the only one that thinks it's somewhat amusing that any time anyone mentions something about Bono or U2 in an even slightly negative way, the Mayor goes just a little nuts?

It's almost like saying something bad about Conservatism when MacNutt is around.


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## AppleAuthority (May 21, 2005)

Just listen to a few of the podcasts, the Mayor is Bono's biggest fan. Remember, Bahn-oh, not Bone-oh!


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## yo_paully (Sep 20, 2004)

lpkmckenna said:


> There's no message in U2's music anymore. I looked for it, but I still haven't found it.


I'm not suggesting that U2 (Bono) or The Boomtown Rats (Geldof) have important messages in their music. Nor, am I suggesting that Bono or Geldof are the best spokespeople for Africa. Love 'em or hate 'em I really don't care - it's not important. 

What *IS* important is the message they are presenting: Sub-Sarhan Africa, and the multitude of problems that face that area of the world, the unneeded suffering that is happening daily.

FWIW, I don't like Geldof telling Martin to stay home either, but really, what difference does it make? Everyone says something stupid once in a while. 

lpkmckenna: You mean "You Still Haven't Found What You're Looking For"? Nicely done


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## iPetie (Nov 25, 2003)

PosterBoy said:


> Am I the only one that thinks it's somewhat amusing that any time anyone mentions something about Bono or U2 in an even slightly negative way, the Mayor goes just a little nuts?
> 
> It's almost like saying something bad about Conservatism when MacNutt is around.


Dutch Temper? LOL


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

> And you didn't read you own reference. It's not that 1/3 of their publishing income is tax-exempt. It's 1/3 of their income is from publishing, all tax-free.


Yes, that's what I meant, and that's what I said in my original thread. 


> There are tax breaks on U2's publishing in Ireland, which is about 1/3rd of their revenue.


The fact of the matter is, you said, and I quote:


> And how do you really take the opinion of a man seriously, when he pays no taxes?


Which is absolutely false. But also, really doesn't have much to do about anything...



> "Largely" is unwarranted, as the G8 was already meeting with the intent of discussing African development. Attributing the movement of BILLIONS of dollars to the lobbying of one man is just silly. Bono didn't invent debt-relief, for God's sake. It's an idea whose time has come, and Bono is just the most flamboyant spokesperson.


Largely is very, very warranted. Which is why he has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize several years and has been recognized my many other various awards and honours and the like. 



> Attributing the movement of BILLIONS of dollars to the lobbying of one man is just silly.


Not knowing about the subject, and discussing it like you do is silly. Let me tell you a little bit more about this one man and his political lobbying and being a flamboyant spokesperson. 

The concept of debt releif certainly has been around and mulled about for a long time. But, didn't get into action until Bono arrived on the scene. It came to a head recently with his involvement in DATA which he co-founded and also with the massive movement of one.org which he created with one of his granted wishes for the TED Award Prize. 

However, he really started to get things going in the late 90's with an effort that didn't receive much press in North America called Jubilee 2000. 
http://www.jubilee2000uk.org/ 



> The concept of debt relief had been circulating for many years among a small world of academics, economists and aid workers. The general public, however, "was completely unaware of the problem," said Ann Pettifor, the plucky director of Jubilee 2000 UK. Pettifor was recruited in 1996 by a group of aid agencies in England to, in her words, "help write off the debt for the poorest countries." But the aid agencies thought that her chief proposal -- a public media campaign to educate and engage the public about debt relief -- was ridiculous. The reasons for third world debt were too arcane, they reasoned, beyond the understanding of ordinary people.
> 
> Nevertheless, Pettifor forged ahead with the help of two 70-something Christian politicos, Martin Dent and Bill Peters. Six years before, over drinks in an Oxford pub, Dent and Peters had come up with an idea to connect third world debt cancellation to the Old Testament idea of Jubilee -- a tradition of erasing all debts and freeing slaves once every 50 years.
> 
> ...


I would like to talk more and provide reference after reference, but I have some work to do tonight. Here are a few more details...

Bono continued tirelessly working with all heads of state to bring more debt relief and increase foreign aid. For those who think Bono does this for his own benefit... do you really think it looks good for a Rock Star to have his photo taken with the likes of George Bush and Jesse Helms and others? The Edge and his band mates sometimes begged him not to let these politicians have photo-ops with Bono. Bono knows he's being used by many politicians.. he doesn't care. It's the people in Africa he's representing. To put it in Bono's words, "I'd have lunch with Satan if there was so much at stake." (Insert your own George Bush jokes here)

In 2002, George Bush announced a $5 Billion hike in US foreign AID. Who was there for the photo op?










The whole article in the link above is a pretty neat read. 

I like the quote:



> The mild irony of the multi-millionaire performer appointing himself spokesman for the world's poor isn't lost on Bono either. "I'm uncomfortable being a rich rock star, doing this. I'm unhappy with that juxtaposition. I would love not to be doing this - for somebody else to do it who was not as compromised as me. That guilt has driven me to be a policy wonk. It makes me queasy to turn up just for the photo opportunity so I turn up for the briefing as well. I go to bed with World Bank reports. *These issues are bigger than whether it makes me comfortable or not. So the band might cringe, I might wince, {SINC might get annoyed} but I went to Washington to get a cheque and I'm going back to get a bigger one." *


* 

There is momentum for debt relief and really changing the world. The facts and figures on Africa are there in black and white, although many glaze over, as its sometimes referred to as poverty porn. 

That's why Bono is the right man, for the right time. 




When a celebrity finds a cause, cynicism is the first reaction. There are exceptions, of course, like the work of Paul McCartney and Heather Mills on land mines. But often, we suspect that we're being conned—that film stars and musicians have calculated that supporting some benighted group is a way of redoubling our reverence for them. And we know that some causes—Tibet, HIV/AIDS—are frankly more fashionable than others. Offhand, I can't think of one celebrity who has dedicated time and money to reducing the number of deaths from diarrhea, a killer throughout the developing world and one easily treated by simple, low-technology interventions.

Call me a fan, but Bono stands out. In the past three years, in talking to politicians, aid workers, activists and United Nations and development-bank officials, I have never heard a single suggestion that the U2 singer was involved with the plight of the world's poor for anything other than genuine concern. In part that's because he has convinced the professionals that he does his homework. It's one thing to hear celebrities talk about "doing something" for a cause. It's quite another to hear a rock star give a lecture on "hipc conditionality," the terms under which the most highly indebted countries of the world are forgiven their loans.

Click to expand...

You can be damn sure that the $50 Billion increase in AID that the G8 leaders just approved had a lot to do with this one man. 

























































































*


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Doesn't change my opinion one bit. He has no business insulting Canadians, cause or not.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

SINC said:


> Doesn't change my opinion one bit. He has no business insulting Canadians, cause or not.


SINC.. how did he insult Canadians? 

And, its more than a little cold to call the crisis in Africa a "cause".


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

ehMax said:


> SINC.. how did he insult Canadians?


Don't you have work? Let's try and avoid this, please....


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ehMax said:


> SINC.. how did he insult Canadians?
> 
> And, its more than a little cold to call the crisis in Africa a "cause".


Well, like this at the G-8 for just one instance:

QUOTE:

'You're infuriating,' Bono tells Canadian PM

GLENEAGLES, Scotland (Reuters) - Irish rock star and anti-poverty activist Bono injected undiplomatic language into a gathering of the world's most powerful men on Wednesday, telling the Canadian prime minister his refusal to promise more foreign aid was "infuriating."

Does not sound like a compliment to me, does it?

Much more like an insult, isn't it?

And believe me Mr. Mayor, I am not trying to insult you in any way. But Bono goes too far in my opinion. A diplomat he is not and as a Canadian, I very much resent his comments on our PM and on our responsibility.

Further he seems to think we are deficit free, when we in fact have a huge debt that needs to be paid down as a priority. Not to mention the funding shortage of our own medicare. After all, charity begins at home, but should not end there. The plight of our aboriginal population should come far before Africa. At least we created that mess, unlike Africa. 

Then, and only then can we consider Bono's ridiculous demands for African funding. We give what we can afford for now and that in itself is a handsome amount, but apparently not good enough for the ego of Bono.

If he was a real man, he would gratefully accept what the PM has offered and say "Thanks Canada", not criticize us again and again.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

PosterBoy said:


> Am I the only one that thinks it's somewhat amusing that any time anyone mentions something about Bono or U2 in an even slightly negative way, the Mayor goes just a little nuts?


    

Just a little? Don't compare me to Macnutt though, I can actually link to resources and facts. 

You don't want to know how much money I spent on U2 tickets from scalpers.


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## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

SINC said:


> After all, charity begins at home.


I hate it when right-wingers use this expression. The full phrase is: "Charity begins at home, but should not end there." Quite a difference, eh?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

lpkmckenna said:


> I hate it when right-wingers use this expression. The full phrase is: "Charity begins at home, but should not end there." Quite a difference, eh?


I edited the expression in my post to mirror yours lpk. Oddly enough, it didn't change the meaning one little bit.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

ehMax said:


> You don't want to know how much money I spent on U2 tickets from scalpers.


Enough to really help in Africa?


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## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

You are right. Bono pays tax, just not on album revenues.

So Bono has been nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize. So what? Anybody can be nominated for a Nobel. Besides, the committee has made many questionable decisions. Arafat got one, but Gandhi didn't.

An interesting article about anti-poverty NGOs: http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/07/317652.html.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

> GLENEAGLES, Scotland (Reuters) - Irish rock star and anti-poverty activist Bono injected undiplomatic language into a gathering of the world's most powerful men on Wednesday, telling the Canadian prime minister his refusal to promise more foreign aid was "infuriating."
> 
> Does not sound like a compliment to me, does it?
> 
> ...


So you resent his comments, because they we're insulting comments directed at our PM? 

Hmm... what are some comments that you've directed at our PM?



> BULL****! Pure and simple.


And also 



> Once again PM the PM has shown his disdain for the west. He moved his speech ahead 45 minutes so we were all still at work and missed it because we expected it to be at its original advertised time.
> 
> After watching the rerun, basically all he said was, "we and I will accept blame for the Sponsorship Scandal, just not now."
> 
> Lame. Very lame.


Well SINC... as a Canadian, I'm very offended by your remarks directed to our PM.   Oh, but I guess because you're Canadian, you can say whatever you want about our PM. Someone invited to the country by the Prime Minister who had certain commitments reneged on them to help divert a global crisis should keep their mouth shut. 



> Further he seems to think we are deficit free, when we in fact have a huge debt that needs to be paid down as a priority. Not to mention the funding shortage of our own medicare.


He didn't say that, he said we are operating in a surplus, which we are. We live like Kings and Queens here in the West compared to millions in Africa who die in the thousands daily from something so stupidly preventable like a mosquito bite. 

Other countries not nearly as well off as Canada have pledged to .7% GDP in foreign AID. Bono and many organizations we're looking to Canada to lead, and Paul Martin decided to be a finance minister. 

Regardless, I think its really dumb to get upset over Bono's ambitions and comments. It's not like he's a rock star trying to lobby to legalize pot, or some weird selfish cause. If you were to go to Africa and see so much suffering, so much needless preventable dying, would you fault someone for devouting their life to trying to stop it?



> The plight of our aboriginal population should come far before Africa.


FYI... Bono's plight is not just Africa. It's his life mission to end extreme poverty. The Canadian arm of one.org is http://www.makepovertyhistory.ca/ Part of the .7% commitment is for domestic AID as well. 



> In 1989, the House of Commons unanimously resolved to eliminate poverty among Canadian children by the year 2000. At the start of 2005, one million Canadian children, or nearly one in six, are still poor. Aboriginal people are disproportionately affected.
> 
> We must end child poverty in Canada. We must make key investments in social development that will make a difference: More money for low-income families. Affordable housing and the creation of decent jobs, with a higher minimum wage. And universal, affordable early learning and child care.
> 
> ...


During each U2 concert on their current tour, there is a section where the decleration of human rights is displayed on the video wall. The crowd gets out their cell phones to text message their local governement to encourage them to increase AID. (Some pretty cool technology is used during this) 

========

*Article 1.

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.*

Article 2.

Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. *Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs*, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Article 3.

*Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.*

Article 4.

No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

Article 5.

No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

Article 6.

Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.

Article 7.

All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

Article 8.

Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.

Article 9.

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.

Article 10.

Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.

Article 11.

(1) Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.

(2) No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.

Article 12.

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

Article 13.

(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.

(2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

Article 14.

(1) Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.

(2) This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

Article 15.

(1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.

(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.

Article 16.

(1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.

(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.

(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

Article 17.

(1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.

(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

Article 18.

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

Article 19.

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

Article 20.
(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.

(2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.


Article 21.

(1) Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.

(2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.

(3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.

Article 22.

Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.

Article 23.

(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.

(2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.

(3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.

(4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

Article 24.

Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.

Article 25.

*(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care* and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

Article 26.

(1) Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.

(2) Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.

(3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.

Article 27.

(1) Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.

(2) Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.

Article 28.

Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized.

Article 29.

(1) Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.

(2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.

(3) These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

Article 30.

Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

ehMax said:


> Don't compare me to Macnutt though, I can actually link to resources and facts.


Touché


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

I have to agree with the Mayor here. I am not a Bono or U2 fan but Bono is doing a wonderful thing and I think it is sad when I see rightwingers denigrating him for his charity work. Do you think world leaders are going to give more money to fight poverty in Africa and other places if they aren't shamed into it?
I don't.
I'm sick of this argument that entertainers should have no political voice. As I pointed out previously the ultimte logical extension of this argument would be that only polititians can critisize the gov't and only directors can critisize films.
It is counter productive to sh*t on people doing charity work. You don't like Bono doing this than please show me a better alternative that is getting the job done.

PS as The Mayor pointed out insulting the PM is NOT the same as insulting Canada. Or are you anti-Canadian MacNutt?
Oh wait I get it. Only Canadians are alowed to critisize the PM and only Americans are aloowed to critisize Bush. Hell only Chinese can critisize the gov't of China and God forbid if a non Iraqi critisizes Sadaam. Don't you dare critisize the CBC if you are not a broadcaster!


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Reading some comments from Keith Richards on Live 8
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=6&ObjectID=10342725




> "I didn't understand why everybody who was trying to coax me in happened to be knighted," he says.
> 
> "I got hit on by Sir Bob and Sir Mick, but I said to Mick, 'We ain't doing it, pal. You can do it, but I ain't.'
> 
> ...


Part of the problem with Bono is that he comes off a pompous little twit and his endeavours as self serving.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ArtistSeries said:


> Part of the problem with Bono is that he comes off a pompous little twit and his endeavours as self serving.


Pure genius AS! :clap:


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> Reading some comments from Keith Richards on Live 8
> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=6&ObjectID=10342725
> 
> 
> ...


So what?
He gets the job done.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

martman said:


> So what?
> He gets the job done.


The problem is that he does not get the job done.
You can look at other "rock stars" and their causes to see that not much is ever accomplished in the long haul. Live Aid, changed very little, Sting and the Rain-forest ditto...


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

SINC said:


> Pure genius AS!


The sound of one hand fapping. 



ArtistSeries said:


> The problem is that he does not get the job done.
> You can look at other "rock stars" and their causes to see that not much is ever accomplished in the long haul. Live Aid, changed very little, Sting and the Rain-forest ditto...


So let's just give up?

It's amazing that you would consider small change to be a negative thing... a little change, in my eyes, is better than no change. But I guess musicians should just withdraw any and all support to NFP organizations and spend their cash on themselves?

It's easy to sit in the nosebleed section and contribute nothing while criticizing others who will do more in one week than you will do in your entire life, innit?


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

I have to dissagree with you ArtistSeries. Live Aid raised millions of dollars that were used to feed thousands of people in Ethieopia. Did it end hunger no. Did it save countless lives?
Yes.
Is Bono's efforts at embarasing rich nations into giving more to Africa working?
Yes 
Do ArtistSeries, SINC, and lpkmckenna have a better solution for getting aid to Africans?
No.
Does they offer an alternative at all?
No.

I'll stick with Bono till I see something more effective. 
Thank You.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

« MannyP Design » said:


> So let's just give up?
> 
> It's amazing that you would consider small change to be a negative thing... a little change, in my eyes, is better than no change. But I guess musicians should just withdraw any and all support to NFP organizations and spend their cash on themselves?


No, but when you consider all the resources spent and the little dividends it has paid, maybe it's time to try a new angle? 
Where is Sting now after he received all that publicity, where are the rainforests?


« MannyP Design » said:


> It's easy to sit in the nosebleed section and contribute nothing while criticizing others who will do more in one week than you will do in your entire life, innit?


It's easy for the "haves" to mobilise publicity for themselves... I think that Bill Gates as done great work with his foundations.
My contributions are not something that I brag about, but nevertheless, I'm probably more involved than you can imagine....


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> I think that Bill Gates as done great work with his foundations.
> My contributions are not something that I brag about,....


Agreed real charity is annonymous but I'd rather have Bill's billions flowing and him talking about how great he is than to go back to the way it used to be when he gave nothing and everybody was calling him the anti-christ.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

ArtistSeries said:


> No, but when you consider all the resources spent and the little dividends it has paid, maybe it's time to try a new angle?
> Where is Sting now after he received all that publicity, where are the rainforests?
> It's easy for the "haves" to mobilise publicity for themselves... I think that Bill Gates as done great work with his foundations.
> My contributions are not something that I brag about, but nevertheless, I'm probably more involved than you can imagine....


Right, so it's okay to pat Gates on the back for the Bill & Melissa Foundation's "no, we're not looking for attention", self-aggrandizing of the millions they've given to _themselves_ for _their_ cause... but to chastize Bono for trying to rally the world's leaders in an attempt try to end hunger, AND doesn't publicize _his_ personal donations (which you have no real way of knowing, much like _I_ wouldn't know how much _you've_ contributed).

Yup. Makes sense.


----------

