# Is it illegal to yell at employees?



## MacDaddy (Jul 16, 2001)

I was yelled, sorry, screamed at today by the boss (Along with another employee) and was wondering if that type of treatment is legal in Canada. I have found stuff regarding a proposed Psychological Harassment Act, but could not find anything concrete about it. Anybody know?


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

I believe there is already a workplace psychological harassment act...in Quebec. Other proposed ones in the works are most likely modelled on it. 

Even without that, you might want to check into your existing provincial labour standards. Who knows, maybe there's something in there already that the boss violated?


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## Mrs. Furley (Sep 1, 2004)

MacDaddy said:


> I was yelled, sorry, screamed at today by the boss (Along with another employee) and was wondering if that type of treatment is legal in Canada. I have found stuff regarding a proposed Psychological Harassment Act, but could not find anything concrete about it. Anybody know?


Call the labour board. Write down what happened as well and when and where it happened.

Sorry you got yelled at.


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

Yes, check the provincial labour relations and employees rights folks. At minimum it is some kind of verbal harrassment. 

It may not be illegal, but it is stupid. Unless of course you were caught having sex in his office or something.


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## miguelsanchez (Feb 1, 2005)

wot did you do to get screamed at? 

not that i condone his/her behaviour, though. it is remarkably unprofessional.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

carry a digital camera to work and record every moment
could be the best investment you ever made
i know, i know, i'm so jaded

_It's not easy being green [jaded]_
- Kermit the Frog after being taken to the cleaners in the divorce with Miss Piggy


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## MacDaddy (Jul 16, 2001)

miguelsanchez said:


> wot did you do to get screamed at?
> 
> not that i condone his/her behaviour, though. it is remarkably unprofessional.


I emailed copy of this press release (Below) to our receptionist to send out to everybody as I thought since we are a TV Production company, we may want to cover it as it is somewhat Alberta Heritage (Not to mention how many people in Alberta have heard it, I thought people might just want to check it out). I sent it to the receptionist as I was under the impression everything was to be sent to her so she could get it approved before it went out, otherwise I would have done it myself, IM the IT Manager, I have everybody's email!

Anyway, I get a call from the boss, and she is furious and screaming about me sending out an email about a racist radio show, and how she can get sued if people misconstrue the email (Yet she sends out staff emails with videos like Pam Anderson talking baout how bad KFC is and mistreatments of animals, tagging it as hilarious), and bascially trying to make me feel like a racist for sending it out (BTW I got the press release from a Native friend who is in the documentary).

Regardless, here is the press release I sent out, anybody offended?
_
Hey guys,
As many of you have probably listened to the old Brocket 99, I thought
some of you may be interested in this.


Brocket 99 - Rockin' the Country
Screening, 6pm -9pm on July 13th, at the Uptown Theatre, Calgary.

PRESS RELEASE

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
Roaming Pictures is pleased toannounce the demonstration screening of the
documentary film, Brocket 99 -Rockin'the Country.

This entertaining and provocative documentary explores the relationship
between Aboriginal and Non-Aboriginal Canadians through a discussion of the
infamous cult tape, Brocket 99.

In the mid-80's an audio tape began circulating around Canada and parts of
the U.S. called Brocket 99. The tape, made in Lethbridge, Alberta, is a
parody portraying how a morning radio show would sound if it was made by
Aboriginals. The tape utilizes the stereotypes of Aboriginals as drug,
alcohol, and physical abusers to induce laughter, anger, and controversy.

Over two months in the summer of 2004, director Nilesh Patel and his crew
set out across Western Canada to talk about the B99 tape with the fans,
foes, and everyone in-between. This discussion of the tape raised many
questions and opinions about humour, racism, identity, and Canada. At times
angry and at times funny the film is a wild ride through not only
Western Canada but also the psyche of what is Canadian. It is this
conversation amongst real people with real experiences that allows a deeper
insight into the relationship between Aboriginal and Non-Aboriginals in
Canada.

Shot on both digital video and 16 mm film the movie is a visually stunning
piece that preys upon the spectacular geography of Western Canada. The film
takes us from Kamloops, to the Calgary Stampede, through parts of central
and northern Alberta, Saskatoon, Weyburn, the South Country Fair in Fort
MacLeod, Lethbridge, Cardston, Stand-Off, Head-Smashed-In Buffalo Jump,
Waterton National Park, Frank Slide, Pincher Creek, before finally
concluding at the town of Brocket on the Piikani Nation Reserve for their
Indian Days Celebration and Pow Wow._


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

Here is a link to the Quebec government's _Commission des normes du travail_ website section on psychological harassment.


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## draz (Jun 13, 2005)

Just turn to him and yell: EXCUSE ME BUT YOU SEEM TO BE HAVING DIFFICULTY CONTROLLING THE VOLUME OF YOUR VOICE. and if that is uneffective walk around for the remaineder of the day yelling LOUD VOICES, LOUD VOICES...!!!!

In my industry getting/giving a good yelling is a healthy aspect of your day, and is effective in establishing and strengthinging your employer / employee relationship.

Just say "Good team building skills boss. Let's go for a quick liquid lunch"


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## Cameo (Aug 3, 2004)

Someone screams at you - smile and ask them VERY politely, soft voice if they are having a bad day today? It's not what they expect as a reaction.
If you really want to piss off a woman - ask if she is suffering from PMS today, geez must be almost due.... Always using, of course, a soft, polite tone of voice.......


Sorry to hear you got yelled at....seems like you were only trying to do your job. I had a boss that used to like to scream at me infront of the customer - thus making her look better. I never bothered to say a word to her - she would come apologize later. Still - not a pleasant and rather unnerving experience.


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## Pylonman (Aug 16, 2004)

Your boss shouldn't of yelled at you infront of the other employees. It's rude and stressful. If anything, she should of taken you aside into her office.

I'd say that's unnecessary and unprofessional. It seems your boss is really stressed out. Look into legal action if she doesn't apologize soon. Also, she should apologize infront of the same employees she flipped out on you (or at least get it in writting)

I had a female boss that was 4 months pregant and flipped out on me on some trivia thing, naming files. I got am aplogy the next day from her sister.


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## MacDaddy (Jul 16, 2001)

Actually, she made a special phone call into the office to yell at me (Of course, not before she yelled at the receptionist for sending the email for me).

I have a meeting at 3 with her, we will see after that if I will be filing a complaint against her.
Oh she also sent out a mass email to everybody about racial discrimination and villification in regards to the email I sent earlier.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

MacDaddy, I don't find that email offensive, but I can see how some may think it is racist. Reminds me of the time I was talking to this woman and she had this cartoon up in her cubicle and offered to make a copy for me... I said no way, for obvious reasons. It was a cartoon of a woman asking for a hairdryer from her husband and her hsuband handing her a handgun (she wasn't looking at him). It's fine for a woman to hang that up, but if I hung that up, you can imagine the harrassment complaints I'd get. It sometimes depends who is passing around the info.

As for yelling or any verbal abuse, it wouldn't be tolerated at my work place. I know I would tell the person I'm not going to be yelled at and leave if it was directed at me, and if it persisted, inform management at some level.


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## draz (Jun 13, 2005)

Hey dude

all jokes aside, you are not writting all of this froma terminal at your office are you? B/c she sounds like the spawn of satan, so i wouldn't put it past her to have the tech mirror your work station. It's kinda like the guys from cibc that pin'd each other on their comapny blackberry's about quiting and setting up an independent competting mutual fund shop. And got sued for it. ha ha ahahhaha


BE careful and bring in a recorder if possible. keep track of everything said, write down what was said afterwards, and keep physical documents of everything that goes on. Wrongful dismissal is a great way to pay for your new G5 and condo to put it in.

bbbaaaaahhahahahahahahahahahahahhaha (evil laugh)

ha ha ...i think 2 drops came out : (


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

macdaddy, sounds like your boss is someone who is not at ease being the "boss". 
Her insecurity showed in the way that she handled the situation.

Speaking for the other side, bosses can and do yell at employees - I have seen it done and the sad part is that all the labour laws can do very little to protect the employee. To really have solid grounds, this would have to be documented and she would have to show a history of abuse.

Best is to talk to her about it in a civil discurse - the sad part is that this may "mark" your relationship and career vis-a-vis your firm - human nature being what it is...


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## MacDaddy (Jul 16, 2001)

draz said:


> B/c she sounds like the spawn of satan, so i wouldn't put it past her to have the tech mirror your work station.


I AM the tech!

Just got out of our meeting and I have been written up for insubordination to the CEO for trying to defend myself while getting yelled at. And she says she did not yell at me, she was "speaking forcefully". So as she mentioned that people may 'miscontrue' the email I sent as racict, I 'misconstued' her 'speaking forcefully' as yelling (She was yelling)


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## teeterboy3 (May 22, 2005)

MacDaddy said:


> I was yelled, sorry, screamed at today by the boss (Along with another employee) and was wondering if that type of treatment is legal in Canada. I have found stuff regarding a proposed Psychological Harassment Act, but could not find anything concrete about it. Anybody know?


I don't think even if it was warranted that it is "okay" to yell at employee. Don't assume that because they pay you money that they own some level of your dignity or right to be more abusive than some stranger on the street.

Talk to the HR department if there is one, and log the complaint, and then like everyone says, get ahold of your provincial labour board.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

get a new job
brush up the resume
find a head hunter


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## MacDaddy (Jul 16, 2001)

Macspectrum,
Am brushing up my resume tonight as I found a job I am more than qualified for (At a Non Profit) paying more than I am making here!
Where do you find a head hunter?


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

The term is 'hostile work environment'. It is a health and safety issue. Tell this to the boss in a way that makes it crystal clear that you are prepared to go the distance (always assuming that you are)... The words 'health and safety' will often be enough to get them to cool their jets as it brings into play provincial statutes that can have regulatory proctologists crawling all over the company. If the immediate boss doesn't grok this, then explain it to his/her boss... Companies dislike this kind of publicity...


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

Sounds like a workplace fit for Unionization. 

Some folks (in Ehmac Land) believe Unions are just to protect "LAZY" workers.

A Union shall protect a worker's dignity in a situation such as this.

Your boss needs a tune-up  Who will give your boss a tune up?


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## MacDaddy (Jul 16, 2001)

It is a small Company (49 people I think) and she is the CEO.

It does not matter with her how nicely you explain things, she is always right.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

MacDaddy quote removed at request of MacDaddy


CEOs / managers who always think they are "always right" won't even blink when you leave. Leave the job for your own mental and physical health. Don't dwell on negative thoughts. Use the anger to find a new job. Revenge is NOT a healthy emotion.

Oh, and when you get a new job, treat yourself to a night out and "celebrate"

The best "revenge", as it were, is to live life to the fullest. Asshole bosses notwithstanding.

for headhunters i googled:
http://www.employmentagencies.ca/headhunters_recruiters/Alberta/area.htm


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

i agree with the advice to find a new job. your boss is a flake. i find it very difficult just to tolerate flakes in my presence - i could never work for one.

sounds like your boss reads, writes, and yells at a grade 4 level.


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## BeeRich (May 30, 2005)

Before (long lost in this thread) anybody jumps to any conclusions, can you describe the term 'yelling'? I've had women that are sitting in a bar, asking me how to 'just show them' how to put phone numbers into their cell phone, accuse me of yelling at them, when I'm trying to get over thier incessant ranting, to tell them to 'listen to the solution'. Yelling, and tone of voice, does indeed change from person to person. 

Professionality, if expected, isn't the thing you always get, in many situations. While expected, don't expect it, in any situation. 

Second, you compare your actions to hers, when your positions are obviously different. Comparison doesn't alleviate you of your responsibilities. Your assumption, furthermore, opened you up to more vulnerability. You laid this upon a personal assistant, of apparent less stature than your own position, to take care of filtering your own output?

It sounds like you couldn't handle what was needed of you. You blame two other people in a situation where you assumed things, compared to other people in your company, yet hold no responsibility for. If you were so unsure, then you should have checked with somebody. You DO have a boss, don't you? Before you go moving into another company with such expectations of responsibility and structure, you might want to check how these things work in a corporate environment. 

You are a media company. You sent out an email without validation from anybody, yet your first reaction is about what OTHERS do, yet your only filter is a personal assistant? You are in the wrong industry. Your industry is rampant with stuff that your boss is talking about. You expected any less response? 

Oh...and on another point, scabs heal wounds. Those with proper education, not in a union environment, would know that to begin with. Assumed clever sayings don't make up for ignorance. The most important thing in the world is going through life stupid. 

Don't be so sensitive. You can't ruin someone cause you messed up and you got yelled at.


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## RISCHead (Jul 20, 2004)

Well its a small company, so really a matter of what your history of working with your boss/CEO/owner has been like so far. Unlikely that you're going to get a new boss , so if you have a dysfunctional history with her and can get equivalent or better employment, its certainly an option to consider.

However, don't act hastily  think it through coldly and logically and decide on your best course of action - eg. don't jump ship hastily if you're better off waiting a while for that perfect job that's just around the corner...

oh and btw, never quit until you have the next job lined up...

Non-ideal work environments are a fact of life; if you've never experienced it before, you've been extremely lucky. 

Getting yelled at is not a pleasant experience; more so when the cause seems innocuous - try to look at it from her perspective, if only to understand how to improve your working relationship with her.

The least you need to do however, is smooth things over - you need to apologize to each other for behaving unprofessionally (sounds like you both lost your tempers, whatever the reason maybe) and lay down some ground rules re. public postings that are not directly work related. It'll clear the air and who knows may even improve your work environment in general.


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## draz (Jun 13, 2005)

I will tune her up real nice for you....all i want in return is a nice raw fish, a bottle of peroxide and a nest for my squirrel . . . . ahahhahahaha

Screw her, quitely start to look at alternative locations. Talk to trusted clients, contacts, and get you name out there. Then talk to some **** hot head hunters...the kind with out the spears and hatchets... :-O

Then inform her that you felt her actions were inappropriate, while recording that conversation. (sale this week on voice reocrders at staples) then when she explodes like a ****** after a hard night of mexican burritos and tequila, sue her sexy ass for wrongful dismissal and verbal harrasment...sweeeet

Or jsut pull an Edward Norton from fight club.....


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## MacDaddy (Jul 16, 2001)

BeeRich said:


> Before (long lost in this thread)You laid this upon a personal assistant, of apparent less stature than your own position, to take care of filtering your own output?
> 
> It sounds like you couldn't handle what was needed of you. You blame two other people in a situation where you assumed things, compared to other people in your company, yet hold no responsibility for. If you were so unsure, then you should have checked with somebody.
> 
> You sent out an email without validation from anybody, yet your first reaction is about what OTHERS do, yet your only filter is a personal assistant?


Let me clarify for you. I sent the email to the receptionist because, as I was told by her herself SHE needed to get any emails approved before sending it out to the company, so as I have been instructed to do many times in the past, and have done many times in the past, I sent it to her under the impression that it would not be sent until approved by the boss, instead it was sent out.

I was written up for insubordinaiton, but originally it was supposed to be that and not following company policy for not approving the email. Yet the person that sent it, told the boss to her face that she was sorry and knew that it should have been approved first (and that she has been told that before), yet she was not written up for not following company policy (The boss just scribbled that part out on my writeup). 
So when I dont follow policy (Which I did) I get in trouble, but when somebody else does not follow it it's OK?

Draz, I told her the way she handled the situation was uncalled for and unprofessional.

This is the first time I have been written up for anything since High School, I do my job and I do it very well. I have decided not to submit a complaint about her as I do not want that hassle right now, I have enough to deal with as is.


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## miguelsanchez (Feb 1, 2005)

i think she likes you.  

maybe she wants to ask you out but she's nervous and this is the only way that she can express herself to you?


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## BeeRich (May 30, 2005)

So you got verbal instructions. First mistake. Your ass was on the line, and you got instructed from a receptionist. See anything wrong here? 

As an aside, maybe this person has something out for you. In any case, call her on it. 

Second, this isn't about comparing yourself to others. That's just an exercise in the "sucks to be me" category. It won't get you anywhere. Obviously the system collapsed underneath you, and you took no precautions to make sure it was handled in the right way. 

Yes, corporate life means being dry. You have to keep your ass to the wall at all times. You can't rely on people for the most part. There's no room for fairness, and nobody said it would be fair. It happens every day. Unprofessionalism might be the way of the day, but don't let it catch you. When you see an opportunity for it to fail, expect it will. Cover your ass. Drop emotion from your job, which is also tough. Do what is expected to be professional of yourself, and I think you can still enjoy your job, especially knowing you won't come back to such an instance of unfairness, unprofessionalism, and pathetic 'insubordination'. Sounds just like high school, if you ask me. Any proper manager should cut through this stuff instantly.


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## MacDaddy (Jul 16, 2001)

BeeRich said:


> So you got verbal instructions. First mistake. Your ass was on the line, and you got instructed from a receptionist. See anything wrong here?
> 
> As an aside, maybe this person has something out for you. In any case, call her on it.
> 
> Second, this isn't about comparing yourself to others. That's just an exercise in the "sucks to be me" category. It won't get you anywhere. Obviously the system collapsed underneath you, and you took no precautions to make sure it was handled in the right way.


I was standing beside her when the boss told her she had to do this (On the phone), so I was well aware that the boss wanted stuff approved. I did call her on it, which is why I was written up. 
How can you say I took no precautions? I followed policy, sent it to her to have approved, which it was not. I have sent many emails to her to get approved that were sent, I had no idea that when it arrived in my inbox that it had not been approved.


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## JAMG (Apr 1, 2003)

Couple of thoughts...

1. Boss yelling at employee is unprofessional and unacceptable - you are well within your moral rights to look for a new job.

Just understand that you will get little or no sympathy from the "labour board" or "Human Resources Canada" or what ever they call themselves this month. Unless you have it on video with sound, it will probably become a "He Said/She Said" situation and bureaucrats don't care. They choose the easiest route to avoid working on the case any longer than is possible.

2. Good luck finding any company where someone doesn't yell sometimes...

If you find such a company, let the rest of us know...

3. Human resources depts exist to avoid corporate liability while pretending to look after the needs of employees... Making waves is a fast track to replacement.


Seems to suck, but the power is actually yours. If you are able to suck it up for now, and you think the writting is on the walls...quietly find a new job and give the yeller the least amount of notice you feel abliged to... and remember, unless you agreed to, you are not required to train your replacement.

What are they going to do...fire you...

Your knowledge and experience are the centre of your employment and they stay with you. Good Luck...


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## MacDaddy (Jul 16, 2001)

i am not filing a complaint for those reasons and I don't want the hassle, I am working on my resume and will be sending it out over the next few days. My problem is not that she was yelling, because it has happened before, my problem was that she tells me to take responsibility for my actions yet she cannot admit, or apologize for yelling. I have walked out on employers for yelling, and I have always been apologized to and been told that their actions were unprofessional and wrong, which to me showed that they were genuine in their apology and knew what they did should not have been done.
Thanks to everybody for their comments on this.


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## dmpP (Jun 1, 2004)

You got written up, yes?

Well... basically you cannot count on that employer for giving you a good (or even decent) reference. I would srite up a letter to your boss, and CC it to the ministry of labour.

Myself... I generally don't take stuff like that from anyone, and I have no quams about putting something in writing and sending it off to whomever.

OR

You could take the high-road. Find a better job, and be out of there. If that were the case, think about what the person that gets hired for your position is going to be in for. Your boss needs to know that it's not ok.

On a side note, I'm confused. You said that she wrote you up to the CEO, and later you said that she is the CEO? what gives?


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## MacDaddy (Jul 16, 2001)

dmpP said:


> On a side note, I'm confused. You said that she wrote you up to the CEO, and later you said that she is the CEO? what gives?


I was written up by the CEO, she was the one who yelled. Sorry for the confusion.


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## Loafer (Jan 7, 2004)

draz said:


> I will tune her up real nice for you....all i want in return is a nice raw fish, a bottle of peroxide and a nest for my squirrel . . . . ahahhahahaha
> 
> Screw her, quitely start to look at alternative locations. Talk to trusted clients, contacts, and get you name out there. Then talk to some **** hot head hunters...the kind with out the spears and hatchets... :-O
> 
> ...


Hahahaha.....I wanna party with this guy!
great avatar too Draz....top marks man.

As far as working with people in....what are they called.....offices ??
meh.....work for yourself man, it's the best thing you'll ever do.
Brings it's own stresses but you don't have to deal with asshole bosses.
If a client spoke to me like that I would have no problems telling them to go f*ck themselves.....everyone's just out there to make a bit of cash to do things in life they want to do, getting all crazy about sh!t helps no one.

I just yelled at a contractor who put up some California shutters (yeah I know, yuppie yuppie) that just happen to fall off when my pregnant wife opened them one day......and it was quite obviously just the shoddiest workmanship ever.....I wonder if he'll go home tonight onto his "EhCaliforniashutters.ca" website and ask for some help in trying to screw me over


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## MBD (Sep 1, 2003)

Just a quick note - what you did is not defined as insubordination under the labour laws. Insubordination is when you refuse to do something you were asked to do (within the confines of reasonableness). I was once accused of this because my boss yelled at me for making a joke (he attacked me knowing that i was very stressed). I took it to the next level (the Director) and had it removed from my record.

I later quit & I'm much happier at my new job!


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## Paul O'Keefe (Jun 3, 2005)

MacDaddy, it's obvious that you were in the right and followed procedure as it was laid down before.

I'm not clear if she yelled at you in person of over the phone. Either way do you have anyone who overheard this inappropriate yelling. 

Always stay calm in the face of agression. Stay logical and rational in the face of passion and irrationality. Be the crane to the tiger.

My friend was a secretary and worked at a place where someone they hired in a higer position yelled at her and she calmly told the yeller that that kind of thing is unprofessional and that she does not deserve being treated that way. My friend then got up and took a break, leaving the yeller look like someone who exploaded. Later the yeller cried and appoligized, and it was the yeller who got fired. My friend also left that job months later anyway for other reasons.

Of course in your situation the yeller is the boss or owner, so we know that's not going to happen. If she is the boss and wrote you up for insubordination, who does that matter to? Her. What you're now on HER list. Big deal. I reccommend quietly looking for a new job, while you wait for her to admit she was wrong and appologise.

Or if you want to burn bridges, resign, but before you do send out a mass email to everyone highlighting the bosses web indicreetions. If it's one thing you learn in this world, is to not piss off you IT. Information, is ammunition after all.


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

ok everyone forget the labour ministry. it's ridiculous and won't go anywhere. you also will never get an apology and shouldn't expect one.

if you feel your working relationship(s) have devolved to an unrecoverable low, find a new job. lay low, don't pick any fights, be a model employee until the moment you jump ship.

or you could try to outlast the flaky ceo. those people don't always stay that long, especially if they don't own the company and it's a bad year. they tend to get 'replaced'. i guess it depends on how bad you need a decent reference when you leave.


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