# UPS Brokerage charges. RMS on my back



## UnleashedLive (Aug 9, 2004)

A weird situation fells into my hands. A few weeks ago I got a letter from a company called RMS saying that I owed UPS Brokerage charges. They said I had 10 days to pay it off, but the letter was already 11 days old by the time i got it. I (and the guy I'm currently renting from) saw it as the company trying to charge me for someone elses bill. I dismissed it and moved on. Well yesterday I get another letter stating basically the same thing. If I don't give full payment by Thursday they assume it's not my intent to settle the account. What gets me is at the top of the letter is says that "Your creditor insists that this matter be pursued...." I don't even own a credit card, nor have I have had a line of credit attatched to my name.

Anyways, I gave them a call this morning. Apparently these are charges from some package I got back in November. I know what the product was, the stated value was double what it actually cost me. I tried to explain to the guy on the other end of the phone that I don't have any credit and it left him speechless. He asked me what I wanted to do and I just told him nothing and hung up.

Has anyone ever run into something like this or have any advice? I have absolutely no intention of paying this as the stated fee is almost equal to the products value.


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## madgunde (Mar 10, 2006)

How much are we talking about? To be honest, it may be worth it to just pay it. I know that may be difficult as a matter of principal, but this kind of situation could become a major headache for you in the future, especially if you do ever want to have credit (say a mortgage?).

You have to decide how much money is worth fighting over. It's not UPS's fault that the product value was mis-stated, that would be the fault of the person who shipped it and filled out the export papers. You do have a responsibility to pay for brokerage fees. If the amount charged is incorrect, then you obviously have a case to fight it, but how much are you looking at saving?


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## MLeh (Dec 23, 2005)

I've got a file about 2" thick on my desk full of 'UPS has screwed up' stuff, including numerous letters from RMS. I don't even open the envelopes anymore. 

I can't tell _you_ what to do - but I just ignore it. (I import a few hundred thousand dollars worth of stuff from the USA every year. I have a professional customs broker and my UPS account has a note on it for them to send the paperwork over to my broker for clearance. They don't do this. We have issues.)

I tried explaining the 'overcharged' and 'NAFTA' (the NAFTA cert was in the documentation) thing to them about a thousand times before I gave up. Mind you, UPS now demands payment COD whenever they deliver something to me that has duty or taxes payable. They are big, they are intractable (I thought a few times I'd actually cleared up the issues, only to have another RMS letter show up the following month) and apparently the only thing they will accept is payment. 

My experience, in any case, for your consideration.


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## UnleashedLive (Aug 9, 2004)

The product cost me about $110. The charges are for $78.xx
Jobless, with rent, food, tuition, books etc to pay for leaves money tight. Those fees alone would last me 2 months worth of food.

Anything I have ever bought that had fees attatched to it (tax or customs), needed the fees to be paid before I even took the package. Why wasn't this the case here? Why didn't they tell me about this in November? Obviously they told my creditors...but who are they?


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

I had an issue with brokerage fees from UPS once, but UPS wouldn't deliver the package until I gave them my CC info. The brokerage fee was ridiculous, I just told them to send the package back to the US and that was that.
Since then I make sure nobody sends me anything by UPS because their brokerage fees are outrageous.

What did the $110.00 include that you paid for? I assume the cost included some shipping charge. Just ignoring this is not the right thing to do - the "problem" will most likely never go away.
I would turn things around, send them a registered letter and tell them every thing was already fully paid back in November and you don't owe them a nickel.

I feel someone at UPS screwed up, either by trying to charge you now or by not having charged you in November.


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## UnleashedLive (Aug 9, 2004)

What I paid did include shipping charges.


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

altrodesigns said:


> The product cost me about $110. The charges are for $78.xx
> Jobless, with rent, food, tuition, books etc to pay for leaves money tight. Those fees alone would last me 2 months worth of food.
> 
> Anything I have ever bought that had fees attatched to it (tax or customs), needed the fees to be paid before I even took the package. Why wasn't this the case here? Why didn't they tell me about this in November? Obviously they told my creditors...but who are they?


1) UPS is obligated to charge GST, PST (if applicable) and Duty (if applicable) on the stated value that the shipper wrote on the form, If the shipper was stupid and wrote $200 value instead of $110 thinking they would get a nice profit on the insurance if the pkg was lost, your beef is with them, not with UPS or their broker. If they wrote zero value, then Canada Customs will assess a value on the shipment. They usually default all software, for example, to $300 value if it is not stated on the forms or if the sender didn't include a declaration.

UPS will add their own brokerage handling fee of $16 - $30 on top of that. 

2) You are bound to pay the fees, when you accepted the package. Whether they charge you at the door or invoice you later doesn't matter. UPS *has already paid part of the $78 to the government* in taxes and duties on your behalf, so they are actually out money. $78 also sounds like the shipper sent it collect freight as well. Depends whats on your invoice.

3) Likely, they sent you an invoice by mail in November and you either didn't get it, or threw it out assuming it was junk mail. UPS may be many things, but late in billing is NOT one of them.

Bad news: This is a debt that you are obligated to pay, you incurred it, unfortunately. It's gonna clobber your credit rating when they send it to a collection agency (if they havent already).

Next time:

Don't buy stuff from out of country when you don't understand the costs of importing. Harsh, but that's the reality.

Don't ever have small orders shipped in from the USA by UPS ground. The brokerages charges are far too high. Shippers love it though because they can quote $10 shipping knowing that you'll be hit with all the extra charges at the receiving end. Go with US Postal Service for any incoming goods. YOU STILL HAVE TO PAY THE GST PST AND DUTY applicable on the item, but the Post Office will only charge $8 for customs clearing.

When importing from outside Canada, dictate to the shipper chapter and verse of how you want them to declare the goods and what specifically to write on the outside of the package. Do not leave it up to them. You'll get [email protected]^3#3d.



Note: To the posters who advise lying or trying to get out of the charge, that's fraud just as surely as sitting down and eating a restaurant meal and then saying "$#!^, I didn't know I had to PAY for this! I'm outta here."

IF there are errors in the UPS billing, fine, dispute those. But the seller putting down the wrong value is not a defence.


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## UnleashedLive (Aug 9, 2004)

CanadaRAM said:


> 3) Likely, they sent you an invoice by mail in November and you either didn't get it, or threw it out assuming it was junk mail. UPS may be many things, but late in billing is NOT one of them.


I never received anything in the mail I'm 100% sure of that. I get MAYBE 1 peice of mail a month.



> Next time:
> 
> Don't buy stuff from out of country when you don't understand the costs of importing. Harsh, but that's the reality.
> 
> ...


I've bought dozens and dozens of things over the years from the US, never had any issues. I always ask for the shipper to declare my package as a gift and place a low dollar value on it. I've used both UPS and USPS with no issues.

When did I agree to accept these charges? I would have sent the package back if I was told about these.


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

altrodesigns said:


> I never received anything in the mail I'm 100% sure of that. I get MAYBE 1 peice of mail a month.
> 
> I've bought dozens and dozens of things over the years from the US, never had any issues. I always ask for the shipper to declare my package as a gift and place a low dollar value on it. I've used both UPS and USPS with no issues.


Because you got away with shipping as a gift and avoiding taxes in the past doesn't mean it was legit. This time, you got caught. Canada Customs has the right to asses whatever they want if they determine that the gift declaration was used improperly on a purchase. 



> When did I agree to accept these charges? I would have sent the package back if I was told about these.


When you took delivery of the item with the waybill on it that says words to the effect "consignee agrees to pay all charges, taxes and duties on this shipment." It's all there in the contract printed on the waybill.

Whether you read it, or understood it, is a different story. But I still don't think it's a defence.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

CanadaRAM -

We obviously don't know the whole story, but if I received an invoice five months after receiving the shipment and paying for it, I would want a whole lot of justification and explanation from UPS or whoever before I would consider paying for it.
Companies do make mistakes - UPS is no exception.


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## UnleashedLive (Aug 9, 2004)

This package was not marked gift and the value marked on it was above what it actually was.

Nothing on the invoice inducates and fees, so I'm going through the Terms and Conditions on their site.



> Any customs penalties, storage charges, or other expenses incurred as a result of an action by customs, or failure by the shipper or consignee to provide proper documentation or to obtain a required licence or permit. *If the consignee does not pay these additional expenses, the shipper is liable for payment*





> 15.7 UPS Customs Brokerage Billing Options
> When a UPS shipment is imported into Canada or exported from Canada, the shipper may choose to pay either the duty and tax or duty only, by showing instructions on both the export documentation and the UPS Pickup Record. These options are available only to shippers with an active UPS account. These services are not available if any or all of the shipping charges are billed to the consignee or if a consignee chooses a customs broker other than UPS for imports or UPS Supply Chain SolutionsTM for exports.
> 
> 
> ...


I just skimmed through it, and these popped out at me.


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## fellfromtree (May 18, 2005)

Here is the UPS rate chart for Clearance into Canada. Be sure to read the entire page to figure out your actual fees, the chart at the top is only the beginning.


```
http://www.ups.com/content/ca/en/shipping/cost/zones/customs_clearance.html
```
When you buy from outside the country, you are the importer, and ultimately responsible for what you are bringing in, including the declaration.
If you use CP/USPS, and the goods have been overvalued or incorrectly (re)assessed by Customs, you can file for recovery by providing appropriate proof of purchase- but you still have to pay upfront the amount owing, and then get the refund through application. Don't know if that also applies to UPS.


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## fellfromtree (May 18, 2005)

sorry, blew the link tag.


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## DS (Oct 7, 2004)

If there are brokerage charges to be charged, I'm pretty sure that it's UPS' responsibility to collect it on delivery to you if you don't have an account with them, etc. 

I've had this situation in the past, and I successfully argued it using the above statement. UPS or their collection agency (I don't remember who) settled it with me for half of the amount they intended to charge me. Whatever it was, it never showed up on my credit report at all either. 

Having said that, I hate UPS and do not do business with them at all costs. I'm not sure what their official policy is, but it basically seems that you end up paying the same amount of brokerage fees to UPS as you do GST/PST on the item.

Just go with Canada Post/USPS if possible, brokerage is built into the cost, you just pay taxes.


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

altrodesigns said:


> This package was not marked gift and the value marked on it was above what it actually was.


OK, that wasn't clear from previous posts. Like I said earlier, the over-valuation is the shipper's screwup and it's costing you money in extra tax and duty. It is *not* UPS's or Canada Custom's issue. They are legally obligated to charge based on the declared value unless CC has grounds to reassess it for false infromation.



altrodesigns said:


> Nothing on the invoice inducates and fees, so I'm going through the Terms and Conditions on their site.


All the bolded part of your post ("shipper guarantees..") means is that UPS is protecting for itself the right to go after the shipper if the consignee is a deadbeat. It does not absolve the consignee of the responsibility to pay the taxes, shipping and brokerage. They're still going to go after you.


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

DS said:


> If there are brokerage charges to be charged, I'm pretty sure that it's UPS' responsibility to collect it on delivery to you if you don't have an account with them, etc.


No, the time and place they collect it is immaterial. If they choose to invoice you, then they can. Not collecting it at the door does NOT zero out the debt.


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## moonsocket (Apr 1, 2002)

Ive also had this happen but there was usually a notice on the package saying i will have to pay fees at a later date. Sure enough months later I recieve a notice saying I owe such and such an amount. I have no idea why ot wasnt charged at the time of delivery and no one has ever been able to give me a decisive answer!

Sheesh.


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## UnleashedLive (Aug 9, 2004)

moonsocket said:


> Ive also had this happen but there was usually a notice on the package saying i will have to pay fees at a later date. Sure enough months later I recieve a notice saying I owe such and such an amount. I have no idea why ot wasnt charged at the time of delivery and no one has ever been able to give me a decisive answer!


Nothing like this is stated on the package. (Yes I still have the box)


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## Paul O'Keefe (Jun 3, 2005)

*Ignore it. Don't pay it.*

I once ordered a nintedo game from ebay in 1998 or 99. The courier package came via DHL. Later I received an invoice for $5 for some lame ass fee. I was not informed about the fee or nor was it my responsibilty. This was just a money grab from a courier company. I kept it for a while and then threw it away.

Just because a company invoices you doesn't mean you own them or that they provided a good or service to you. You would be amazed at the amount of invoices that the college that I work for gets. Companies real and imagined are out to fleece you. Sometimes they look at your organization and figure that just from your sheer size and bureaucracy that they can get an invoice paid.

These fees are extortion plain and simple. It's like if you go to a banana republic and then you have to pay a "fee" or "tax" to leave. It pay up or never leave the country... or in this case, they'll hold your package over you head.

It's wrong. Don't be a party to it.


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## Maeode (Sep 18, 2008)

anyone else have anything to comment on this? i've now recieved two of these letters and am trying to find out why

[i know i'm reviving a very old topic, but this is the only place anywhere i can find people actually discussing this]

edit: well i just cleared this all up with ups directly, and my advice would be to do the same. go to the ups website, it has all their contact information. They were all very nice, and were able to fax out the invoice and I was able to see exactly where the charges were from.
as for any other advice remail open to the possibility that these charges are legitimate, lol. turns out they were left over from something I ordered for a friend  guess he doesnt care about paying bills as much as i do


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## Reveeen (Aug 26, 2008)

_anyone else have anything to comment on this?_

UPS are the biggest bunch of crooks I have had the dubious pleasure of dealing with in my entire life. Unlike, even a loan shark (who will tell you "up front" what you will owe), they can, and will, bury you in paperwork to justify their excessive charges. Once a debt is incurred you are obliged to settle it, and I highly recommend you, or anyone, does, BUT only a fool will go back to be abused (sexually, or otherwise) again, shipping by any other means is preferable to UPS, and if put in the position of "having" to have something shipped by UPS LEARN to say "no thanks".


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

Has anyone ever taken UPS to small claims court?

Situation I had recently:

Bought an item in the US. Unfortunatly forgot to tell the seller not to send via UPS.
I thought the package would come via USPS and waited patiently.
After about six weeks I get an invoice from UPS for some fees - but I didn't have the package yet.
So I called UPS and the first comment I get is: "Don't worry about the invoice - it's been cancelled"
Ok, but where is my package?
Answer: "Well, we couldn't find the address so the package was destroyed"

Turns out that the address the sender had put on the package had an error in it, but Canada Post had no problem delivering the UPS invoice, however UPS wasn't smart enough to do the same with the package.

Well, I couldn't believe that UPS would just simply destroy the package if they can't immediately deliver it - why not send it back to the sender.
UPS claims the sender indicated to destroy the package if it can't be delivered; the sender disputes that and when I asked UPS for a copy of the shipping papers that indicated to "destroy" the package, they couldn't find anything.
Item was about $150.- which I feel UPS should reimburse me for - they of course refuse.

Anyone ever have a situation like that? Any suggestions what to do?


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Unfortunately for the amount of money you are talking it about it just isn't worth it. Even if you were to win and get your court costs back, for the amount of time and energy you would have to invest, $150 isn't fair compensation.

I hate UPS with a passion for various reasons that I won't go into here. When I order things now, I will go with any other delivery option other than UPS and if there isn't one then I don't buy from them. I look for another supplier who provides a non-UPS option.

To the OP ignore the bill for payment and don't get nervous about legal threats etc. They will eventually give up it isn't worth it to them to take you to court. As far as being a serious ding on your credit rating, it isn't. This was not a missed payment on a credit card or some other payment schedule. This is a disputed charge, not a payment that is in arrears. Don't worry about it.


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## MC25 (Dec 29, 2007)

I got one of those ages ago. I waited, and about a year later, got the same letter. I ended up just paying it off. Same thing, my package was worth $180, and UPS charged me $75. Friggin joke. There are ways around brokerage fees, which i now know, so do your homework and youll be fine next time


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## lindmar (Nov 13, 2003)

UPS Brokerage fees are a nitemare. I'll never ship anything to Canada via UPS.


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