# Warm winter causes Italian rivers to run dry



## zoziw (Jul 7, 2006)

> ROME — Italy declared a state of emergency in northern and central regions yesterday due to fears of drought coming after unusually warm and dry weather.
> 
> Farmers have been fretting as Italy's largest river, the Po, has dried up in recent months. The river, running west to east across northern Italy, feeds the broad Po valley, which accounts for about a third of the country's agricultural output.





> Italy's hottest winter in 200 years meant snowfall was light in the Alps, with little snowmelt to swell the Po. Then a hot, dry spring set in, with temperatures in April approaching levels usually seen in June.


globeandmail.com: Warm winter causes Italian rivers to run dry

Looks like it has started raining but without a snowpack to melt you have to wonder what good it will do. This is also hindering their electrical generation.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Global Drying.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"Global Drying." Not in this part of Canada. Cold and wet are the effects of global warming here in the most easterly part of Canada. Still, the only upside is not fear of drought this summer.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

The most conservative estimates of total world precipitation under global warming scenaria show a slight increase in overall precipitation, with little change in regional distribution.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Macfury, in the past 7 winters, St.John's has experienced record snowfalls, ranging from an average snowfall of 13 feet for only one of these seven winters, with snowfalls of 21, 15, 19, 18, 17, 18 for the other six winters. Rainfall is above average, since we are getting more rain in March, April, May and early June each year. From what I have read by reputable scientists, this change is due to the shifting of the Gulf Stream and Labrador Currents due to a change in the ocean temps in the North Atlantic and the increase in fresh water due to the rapid melting of the Greenland Glacier fields.

For some strange reason, we are now getting better (i.e., warmer, sunnier, dryer) weather in late Sept. to early Nov. than we are getting in May and June.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I remember my parents talking about the hot summers in the 1950s and howw people used to blame the Russians for it! Even in the early 1980s I recall reading articles where scientists had warned that the relative stability of the period from about 1955 to 1980 was nothing we could count on continuing. Weather doesn't care what we're used to.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> The most conservative estimates of total world precipitation under global warming scenaria show a slight increase in overall precipitation, *with little change in regional distribution.*


What a total unsupported crock that is.
Off course there is more water in the atmosphere, it's warmer - because it's warmer moisture is pulled from already dry areas more rapidly...

Precipitation patterns have already altered and one of the side effects is increased severe precipitation events along with drying.
This is just one 



> How Will Climate Change Affect India's Monsoon Season?
> Science Daily — Scientists at the University of Liverpool are investigating the anticipated effects of climate change on India's monsoon season and the impact that alterations in India's water cycle will have on the country's people, agriculture and wildlife.
> 
> Changes to India's annual monsoon are expected to result in severe droughts and intense flooding in parts of India. Scientists predict that by the end of the century the country will experience a 3 to 5C temperature increase and a 20% rise in all summer monsoon rainfall.


Drought AND severe flooding are already a consequence of anthropogenic activities.

Mumbai already has seen one catastrophic rainfall 934 mm in 24 hours....a metre of rain - 3 times more than a heavy monsoon downpour.

Sky islands in the western part of the US that have been there for over 10,000 years are declining rapidly.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/05/AR2007040501180.html

Wet gets wetter - dry gets worse and the swings get larger and more frequent.

Latin America is particularly hard hit.


> Increased rainfall in southeast Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay, the Argentinean Pampas and some parts of Bolivia has impacts on land use, crop yields and has increased flood frequency and intensity.
> 
> On the other hand, a declining trend in precipitation has been observed in southern Chile, southwest Argentina, southern Peru, and western Central America.


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070410135944.htm

Southern Europe is considered a hot spot for climate change ..the Po is very vulnerable....and very vital.

Greater frequency of greater extremes.....get used to it ......it's not a projection.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

MacDoc: I've accepted the variability of weather paterns long before you have apparently. It's only a shock to the likes of you, I guess.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

Macfury said:


> The most conservative estimates of total world precipitation under global warming scenaria show a slight increase in overall precipitation, with little change in regional distribution.


Even the most cursory glance at the IPCC's Working Group II "Summary for Policymakers" paper will show this to be incorrect. Particularly pages 9-10 with a particular slap at the contention there will be little change in regional distribution on pg. 10, para.11.


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## adagio (Aug 23, 2002)

Obviously most folks here know little about weather history. My dad and grandfather used to tell me what it was like to farm in the 1930's. 

A whole decade of drought.

The 1930's were very hot and dry to be followed by wet and below normal temps in the 1940's.

In all of my 55 years I have heard of fantastic floods, droughts, hurricanes, tornados, volcanic eruptions, locust plagues. Up until recently it was called population control.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

IronMac: I'm referring to Greenpeace's document. But pick whichever one you like. No quarrel from me!


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

adagio said:


> Obviously most folks here know little about weather history. My dad and grandfather used to tell me what it was like to farm in the 1930's.
> 
> A whole decade of drought.
> 
> ...


It still is Marg, only now the brightest minds are so engrossed with their spreading of fear and propaganda, they have forgotten events like the dirty thirties.

Odd how only the so-called brightest minds can be so gullible, non?

Regular folks know it is all cyclical, and they alone are bright enough to know we cannot control the weather.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

SINC said:


> It still is Marg, only now the brightest minds are so engrossed with their spreading of fear and propaganda, they have forgotten events like the dirty thirties.
> 
> Odd how only the so-called brightest minds can be so gullible, non?
> 
> Regular folks know it is all cyclical, and they alone are bright enough to know we cannot control the weather.


1. it's climate not weather
2. we don't control it, we affect it

i see you and your supporters use the same logic about climate change as those that defended and promoted cigarette smoking

i, for one, don't want to wait until the earth gets a heart attack before doing something


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> i, for one, don't want to wait until the earth gets a heart attack before doing something


This is so beautiful about democracy--go for it!


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

MS likes to compare everything to my heart attack thinking I will react. For the record, neither climate, nor weather caused my heart attack. And since an area's climate is simply a difference in its weather from another area, how do you see the two terms as being different? There are variations of the same thing - "weather", and we can control neither.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

SINC: I think the idea that humans can control weather _or_ climate is the ultimate in ego trips. King Canute dressed in the humble raiments of the lowly green ecologist.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Today, weather and climate, tomorrow the common cold.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

SINC said:


> MS likes to compare everything to my heart attack thinking I will react. For the record, neither climate, nor weather caused my heart attack.


Was it not partially due to smoking?
The same smoking that is safe for you (so says most of the lobbyist you quote that are climate change deniers).....


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ArtistSeries said:


> Was it not partially due to smoking?
> The same smoking that is safe for you (so says most of the lobbyist you quote that are climate change deniers).....


Yes AS, I was a smoker, but I suspect genetics had a lot more to do with it on my maternal side. My Mother and her every brother died young of heart failure, one at age 34. 

An x-ray of my lungs after my heart attack showed them to be so clear that my cardiologist assumed I was not a smoker. Go figure.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

If that were so, you'd still be a smoker... 
Since you've said that you prefer to believe science-hostile charlatans over credible research because somehow it "jives" with your mindset, I wonder why you aren't smoking...


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

SINC has pointed to the money he saved by quitting smoking.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ArtistSeries said:


> If that were so, you'd still be a smoker...
> Since you've said that you prefer to believe science-hostile charlatans over credible research because somehow it "jives" with your mindset, I wonder why you aren't smoking...


I chose to quit smoking when my cardiologist said to me, "Quit or die".

You see, I think my doctor knows a whole lot about my body, unlike climate scientists who toss theories about with no real knowledge about the future and no real control over the weather.

When they amass the same knowledge about the weather my doc has about my body, I'll quit the weather too.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

Macfury said:


> SINC: I think the idea that humans can control weather _or_ climate is the ultimate in ego trips. King Canute dressed in the humble raiments of the lowly green ecologist.


Or a convenient lapse in memory of man's abilities over the ages. XX)


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

We may already affect the weather more directly than global warming: contrails.

More research is needed, but dismissing the possibility is unfounded.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

_Or a convenient lapse in memory of man's abilities over the ages_

Yes, considering our ability to divert water systems and create watersheds where none previously existed, or to drown entire regions (and their respective ecosystems and towns) under hundreds of feet of water; witness the Three Gorges Project or water diversion programs which enabled LA to become the sprawling megalopolis that it is.

Being able to suddenly drown hundreds of square miles of land amounts to directly altering a regional micro-climate, thereby triggering changes with unknown future consequences. Similarly, paving some of the best farmland in Southern Ontario creates a causal chain the nature of which is at best poorly understood and all too easily underestimated.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

IronMac said:


> Or a convenient lapse in memory of man's abilities over the ages. XX)


ex. "Man was never meant to fly"

ex. "Faster than the speed of sound? Impossible!"

ex. "Man can't go into space"

ex. "Man can't walk on the moon"

ex. "Nuclear power? Harnessing the power of the Sun?"

ex. "Terraform Mars? Lunacy!"

Human civilization...dream it...do it.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

IronMac said:


> ex. "Terraform Mars? Lunacy!"


I did this once, and the buggers changed it back...


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

IronMac said:


> ex. "Man was never meant to fly"
> 
> ex. "Faster than the speed of sound? Impossible!"
> 
> ...





Macfury said:


> I did this once, and the buggers changed it back...



'Sides, no one under 40 alive today had anything to do with any of that list of accomplishments.

And the new generation is wandering around in pants hanging off their a$$ with their hats on backwards thinking of, well there is debate if they are even thinking, but I digress . . .


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

SINC said:


> 'Sides, no one under 40 alive today had anything to do with any of that list of accomplishments.
> 
> And the new generation is wandering around in pants hanging off their a$$ with their hats on backwards thinking of, well there is debate if they are even thinking, but I digress . . .


So, I guess Mars will be terraformed as an old-age home for the geezers huh? :lmao:


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

IronMac said:


> So, I guess Mars will be terraformed as an old-age home for the geezers huh? :lmao:


I did say "accomplishments", past tense. I do not include a "terraformed Mars" as falling into that category just yet.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

SINC: The current crop has no real accomplishments yet, but apparently this "terraforming of Mars" business is going to be finished any day now.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

MF: That certainly puts my mind at ease.


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## absolutetotalgeek (Sep 18, 2005)

> You see, I think my doctor knows a whole lot about my body, unlike climate scientists who toss theories about with no real knowledge about the future and no real control over the weather.


You might be surprised to know how _very little_ your Dr actually knows about your body and how it works. 

As for drought and the weather? Without polar icecaps, it can rain all it wants - _You're going thirsty_.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

absolutetotalgeek said:


> You might be surprised to know how _very little_ your Dr actually knows about your body and how it works.
> 
> As for drought and the weather? Without polar icecaps, it can rain all it wants - _You're going thirsty_.


As I lay on the OR table and watched on a monitor as he repaired my heart in real time, I decided then and there that he knew quite a bit about my body. Matter of fact, a lot more than you know about my body or the weather for that matter.

I'll leave you and the rest of the "followers" who wish to continue to live in fear based on the crystal ball predictions of the UN's hand picked group of alarmists, an organization by the way, with a less than stellar record for solving world problems.


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## absolutetotalgeek (Sep 18, 2005)

> Matter of fact, a lot more than you know about my body or the weather for that matter.


I never claimed to know anything about your body, don't really care to either. 

As for the weather, I'm not sure what the snide remark is for, guess you're just an a-hole. If you're too stupid, ignorant or not educated enough to understand that polar ice has a profound impact on fresh water supplies, ground water levels and quality, then I guess you'll be one of the ones standing around with a dopey look on his face wondering why '_everythin' is all dryin' up_' But hey, you've got the 'oil sands' projects to be proud of eh? 

What a moron....:lmao:


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

absolutetotalgeek said:


> As for the weather, I'm not sure what the snide remark is for, guess you're just an a-hole.
> 
> What a moron....:lmao:


Name calling, the only defense of the child.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Geek: That last post is way out of line. It's simply not acceptable in the EhMac community. I suggest you retract it.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

SINC said:


> Name calling, the only defense of the child.


So that's your excuse SINC?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ArtistSeries said:


> So that's your excuse SINC?


No, but thanks for asking.


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## absolutetotalgeek (Sep 18, 2005)

> I suggest you retract it.


What? Like Imus or something? Don't think so. 

First off all I made a general reply to something he posted about Dr's in general, nothing about _him_ personally. _He_ turns around and makes some snide remark about _me_ not knowing anything about 'his body', and personally that _I_ don't know anything about weather, and other s$%t. 

So, let me get this straight, in his reply he levels two personal snide remarks towards me and I answer back and you want me to retract?  So it's ok for someone to take shots at me and I'm supposed to ignore it? Uh, no.

Retract.... :lmao:


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

It sounded very specific to me geek:



absolutetotalgeek said:


> You might be surprised to know how _very little_ your Dr actually knows about your body and how it works.





absolutetotalgeek said:


> First off all I made a general reply to something he posted about Dr's in general, nothing about _him_ personally.


 That statement in itself implied you had intimate knowledge of my doctor, my body and how it works. Perhaps you would care to explain on what basis you came to your conclusion for us then, Dr. geek?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Geek: In polite company we can call each other's credentials and judgment into question. 

We can't call people "stupid, ignorant" "moron" or "a-hole."


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## imactheknife (Aug 7, 2003)

absolutetotalgeek said:


> What? Like Imus or something? Don't think so.
> 
> First off all I made a general reply to something he posted about Dr's in general, nothing about _him_ personally. _He_ turns around and makes some snide remark about _me_ not knowing anything about 'his body', and personally that _I_ don't know anything about weather, and other s$%t.
> 
> ...


your comments shows more who the real ahole is ....you can't come up with something better than name calling...better go back under the rock you crawled from.....get some real tact...


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## Chealion (Jan 16, 2001)

A reminder to everyone; personal attacks are NOT allowed on ehMac. There are better ways to disagree with people than to attack a person instead of focusing on the ideas.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

SINC said:


> I'll leave you and the rest of the "followers" who wish to continue to live in fear based on the crystal ball predictions of the UN's hand picked group of alarmists, an organization by the way, with a less than stellar record for solving world problems.


The only one who follows is you SINC. You have decided that the majority of scientific body is crap and decided to put your faith in lobbyists for whatever reason. You have even professed to follow some of these deniers knowing full well that they are charlatans...

I fail to see where people are living in fear when they say we have to be careful about how we are influencing climate change. 
As for the UN, you once again show your total lack of knowledge about the goals of the organization. 
Your "arguments" are neither valid or credible.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ArtistSeries said:


> As for the UN, you once again show your total lack of knowledge about the goals of the organization.
> Your "arguments" are neither valid or credible.


Oh I know all about the goals for the UN, AS.

It's the results of the things they have been involved in over the years that bother me. Perhaps the most ineffective group ever assembled at solving the world's problems.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Surely the most inept organization would be the World Bank....


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

ArtistSeries said:


> Surely the most inept organization would be the World Bank....


I'd say the UN clinches it, but as far as the World Bank, I'd say they were also somewhat inept--they never collect on the loans they hand out.


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## absolutetotalgeek (Sep 18, 2005)

> your comments shows more who the real ahole is ....you can't come up with something better than name calling...better go back under the rock you crawled from.....


That, my friend sounds like a threat, and once again - Do you read your posts before you put them up?

Funny as well how an entire reply I posted yesterday is gone. I see nothing has really changed all that much here. As always the 'select' few get to post insulting and derogatory remakes towards others, but don't dare call them on it. :lmao:


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

absolutetotalgeek said:


> Funny as well how an entire reply I posted yesterday is gone. I see nothing has really changed all that much here. As always the 'select' few get to post insulting and derogatory remakes towards others, but don't dare call them on it. :lmao:


If you look at post #44 in this thread, you will see a note from Chealion, one of three moderators here. My bet is that he removed your post.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> Surely the most inept organization would be the World Bank....


At least the United Nations pretends to have good intentions. The same can't be said of the World Bank (the International Monetary Fund) so long as they continue their record of assassination, intimidation, collapsing governments and ecological systems as they go.

The IMF may be the only rival in evil to the Vatican, and the mighty and relentless universal sucking chest wound that is Microsoft.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

As the World Bank is essentially an offshoot of the United Nations, I would just give a thumbs down to the entire steaming heap.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Macfury said:


> As the World Bank is essentially an offshoot of the United Nations, I would just give a thumbs down to the entire steaming heap.


You say Beelzebub, I say Mephistopheles...


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

HowEver said:


> You say Beelzebub, I say Mephistopheles...


The devil, you say....?


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