# CBC says Bell, Telus may switch to ... something ... someday ...



## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

This article is poorly written and confusing (and no, I don't normally find the CBC's articles to be that way, unless they are talking about technology it seems):

Telus, Bell to switch cellphone technology: report

If the article is to be believed as written, Bell and Telus *are* looking to upgrade their technology, but *maybe not* to GSM compatible technology (even though the entire premise of the article is “an iPhone from Bell/Telus someday,” a statement that gets reiterated without any proof or confirmation.

They are (according the article) planning to upgrade to WCDMA (faster CDMA), *or* HSPA (which is GSM compatible). IF they choose WCDMA, then no iPhone from Bell/Telus. Ever.

IF they go with HSPA, *perhaps* an iPhone from Bell or Telus (not anytime soon, but perhaps someday).

So this article is just about worthless is what I’m trying to say.

Or am I wrong? Have a look and let me know.


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## g.c.87 (Sep 20, 2007)

I've heard rumblings about this for a while. It would be great if they went HSPA. I need to read into this a little more. Going to HSPA skips all the GPRS, EDGE and UMTS networks in between for GSM. I'm not sure how that would affect their deployment of GSM phones.


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## Mississauga (Oct 27, 2001)

Worthless article? Not for those of us who are refusing to give up our Bell contracts. My Bell Mobility plan is SO good, waiting for Ma to carry the iPhone is worth it.


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## Gene Rayburn (Jun 30, 2007)

This article is confusing insofar as WCDMA is not really different from HSPA/GSM. As Wikipedia illustrates, HSPA is a subset of UMTS technologies, with most UMTS implementations using WCDMA as the "underlying air interface". 

Point being, the article is saying that Bell/Telus aren't choosing between a new type of CDMA or jumping ship to GSM, they're choosing between which type of GSM to jump to (though again, WCDMA isn't necessarily different from HSPA...)

(ps: 3G CDMA technologies -- i.e. the CDMA Bell and Telus use -- are CDMA2000 and EV-DO)


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## iPetie (Nov 25, 2003)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my understanding that the 2 platforms will merge into a varient of WCDMA in the not to distant future. The issue as pointed out before, is that the legacy platforms (CDMA and GSM) will be handled once full WCDMA is deployed by all.


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## g.c.87 (Sep 20, 2007)

iPetie said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my understanding that the 2 platforms will merge into a varient of WCDMA in the not to distant future. The issue as pointed out before, is that the legacy platforms (CDMA and GSM) will be handled once full WCDMA is deployed by all.


Now that would make sense.


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

I think there's something in the 3G iPhone that already supports WCDMA, though I can't find a proper link to support where I read it. The best I've got right now is this:

Domo arigato, the iPhone is coming to Japan - The Unofficial Apple Weblog (TUAW)


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## uPhone (Jun 29, 2008)

I think Bell curently uses GSM technology/SIM cards for their world edition BlackBerrys. I was very confused one day when my mom showed me her Bell SIM card. 

I've heard on the news before that Telus plans to upgrade to GSM and phase out CDMA. That's good for us, but sucks for whoever is stuck on the last CDMA network... prices will skyrocket there..


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## iPetie (Nov 25, 2003)

Just to Clarify, from a purely technical perspective, CDMA is a far superior plat form to GSM. GSM is a varient of the old TDMA technology. Where GSM is superior is in it's instal base worldwide. Kind of the the old Betamax/VHS scenario repeated.

So to say upgrade to GSM/UMTS/HSPA for Bell and Telus would actually be a downgrade. Hence why GSM based carriers are moving towards WCDMA.


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## iPetie (Nov 25, 2003)

fyrefly said:


> I think there's something in the 3G iPhone that already supports WCDMA, though I can't find a proper link to support where I read it. The best I've got right now is this:
> 
> Domo arigato, the iPhone is coming to Japan - The Unofficial Apple Weblog (TUAW)


Many GSM Based handsets on sale in Europe already support WCDMA.


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## candan9019 (Jul 22, 2008)

Sorry if I'm being a jerk but about half of the people in this thread really need to head over to wikipedia and learn more about the different systems. There is a whole lot of confusion.

HSDPA (3G "3.5G actually" for GSM networks and what Rogers uses) is a channel of WCDMA.

WCDMA is not the same as CDMA or CDMA2000.

Telus and Bell run CDMA (EVDO is 3G for CDMA networks and a channel of CDMA2000) and they only use sim cards for roaming purposes like roaming in Europe where there is no CDMA.

You could argue that CDMA is better than GSM except for battery life but as far as 3G goes HSDPA > EVDO because of it's greater potential.

Luckily everything should converge on when we get to LTE in a few years.


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## iPetie (Nov 25, 2003)

No, you're not being a jerk at all. As I said in my original post "correct me if I'm wrong".

Welcome to ehmac!!!!


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## NBiBooker (Apr 3, 2004)

I'm hoping as result of technological changes and the wireless spectrum auction that we see some serious changes in Canada's wireless market. 

But I'm an optimist.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Thanks for this, and welcome.



candan9019 said:


> Sorry if I'm being a jerk but about half of the people in this thread really need to head over to wikipedia and learn more about the different systems. There is a whole lot of confusion.
> 
> HSDPA (3G "3.5G actually" for GSM networks and what Rogers uses) is a channel of WCDMA.
> 
> ...


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

All of this talk about inferior standards and such... Canada is retrograde and consumers are being ripped of by shoddy CDMA and variants, rather than just going with what is proven and what is being used in pretty much the rest of the world. Bell/Telus don't want to go GSM simply because it will give their customers some very real choices, or at least potential choices if we ever do have an open, competitive market. All of these garbage standards are just more vapour to hide the poor job that these companies have done - and more than anything, it's all about being vendictive against the consumer and the whole infrastructure of this nation.

Anything can be argued to be "better", but one has to wonder why GSM is used virtually everywhere, while in Canada, it is only used by one inferior and shoddy provider under their two marques. If only we had a chance to have providers like Verizon, Vodaphone, and others.

I'm surprised the CBC even writes about cell phones, considering that they are not made by their favourite corporation ever - Micro$loth...


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## pangolin (Jun 22, 2008)

WCDMA aka 3G is the technology of choice now because of the foreseeable high data bandwith requirement in the very near future. It's even happening now due to the popularity of blackberry and iphone.


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## candan9019 (Jul 22, 2008)

Your Welcome, glad to know I was being helpful 



EvanPitts said:


> Bell/Telus don't want to go GSM simply because it will give their customers some very real choices, or at least potential choices if we ever do have an open, competitive market.


I seriously doubt Bell and Telus chose CDMA to limit choice. They had no way of knowing things would turn out this way. It's just the technology they decided to invest in, the reason they don't switch to GSM now is because it's not very cost effective, it's an old technology now. When everyone switches to LTE in a few years then we will really have choice.......I hope.


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## Trevor... (Feb 21, 2003)

CDMA is nothing more than a way of dividing spectrum and it is better than TDMA.

The problem with this discussion is that people too closely associated CDMA as an air interface with Qualcomm CDMA as a platform.

Qualcomm CDMA the platform is dying rapidly, mostly due to Qualcomm alienating the entire industry with unreasonable licensing fees and nuisance lawsuits. CDMA as an air interface isn't going anywhere and will marry itself to future evolutions of GSM or any other mobile system.

In many ways Qualcomm CDMA is superior to GSM, however as it has been implemented in North America many of those features are absent.

And for those of you with Nokia CDMA phones, pop it open and look under the battery. That card slot is exactly what it looks like - North American CDMA carriers just don't want to use it.


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## Trevor... (Feb 21, 2003)

candan9019 said:


> I seriously doubt Bell and Telus chose CDMA to limit choice.


The rational behind the carriers who went CDMA was very simple, Qualcomm CDMA is backwards compatible while GSM isn't. 

Because of this they could build out their CDMA network at a much slower pace and not worry about users losing coverage as the owner of a CDMA phone would get some sort of service anywhere they did before.

On the GSM side this could only be accomplished with TDMA/GSM hybrid phones that were very expensive and quite large and required some complicated business on the back-end.


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## candan9019 (Jul 22, 2008)

Trevor... said:


> And for those of you with Nokia CDMA phones, pop it open and look under the battery. That card slot is exactly what it looks like - North American CDMA carriers just don't want to use it.


I had a 6265i and it has the slot, I found it weird when I saw it. It's too bad it was never utilized in North America. I imagine it was used in Korea right?

Thanks for the info I wasn't too familiar with the switch from TDMA, too long ago for me


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

So, at the end of all this discussion, I think what people here are saying is that while the CBC article was confusingly written, there is SOME hope for Telus and Bell customers in the future regarding the iPhone and GSM generally.

Or, depending on how fast the 4G stuff gets rolled out, maybe Bell & Telus should bide their time and wait for the NEXT iPhone (with LTE support?).


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## uPhone (Jun 29, 2008)

chas_m said:


> there is SOME hope for Telus and Bell customers in the future regarding the iPhone and GSM generally.


I think there is more than some hope. Telus has made it clear that they plan to phase out CDMA for GSM technology. Although I assume it would take a long time fo rthis to happen.


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## Mississauga (Oct 27, 2001)

I often wonder how much it costs to "buy" positive commentary (advertising) on a major news publication web site?

Everyone has their price!  No exceptions.


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## GrapeApe (Aug 4, 2004)

Here's another article on this:

Bell, Telus moving to HSPA to snatch iPhone?

I work for a telecommunication company (not on the tech side) and I have heard pretty strong rumbling about this internally as well.

I have a question though, what kind of timeline would Bell or Telus need to get a HSPA network up and running?

Is this the kind of thing they could do in time for the 2010 Vancouver Olympics because I know roaming charges fro overseas visitors are a big draw.


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## jeepguy (Apr 4, 2008)

GrapeApe said:


> Is this the kind of thing they could do in time for the 2010 Vancouver Olympics because I know roaming charges fro overseas visitors are a big draw.


If they start soon, yes. The bigger logistical problem is having everyone come in and exchange their CDMA phones. I'm sure they would have to have both systems up until everyone is switched over, perhaps a 1 or 2 year grace period from the time of implementation, sort of how they did when they went from analog to digital. The sooner they start the better.


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## GrapeApe (Aug 4, 2004)

Ya but like you said they could just run both systems side by side during a phase out period.

My decision to hold off on the 3G iPhone is looking better every day, of course I never would have had the willpower if I weren't able to unlock and jailbreak the 2.o software on my original iPhone :

All Canadian carriers running HSPA would be a dream come true for consumers, finally people would be comparing apples to apple (pun intended) and have real choice in the marketplace.



jeepguy said:


> If they start soon, yes. The bigger logistical problem is having everyone come in and exchange their CDMA phones. I'm sure they would have to have both systems up until everyone is switched over, perhaps a 1 or 2 year grace period from the time of implementation, sort of how they did when they went from analog to digital. The sooner they start the better.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

Either way, I would be hesitant to get too attached to 3G technology with a three year contract. When 4G and 5G come out and you still have a data plan for three years for 3G technology at $30 a month minimum, you may wonder if that was money well spent.


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## GrapeApe (Aug 4, 2004)

LTE is at least 2 years away. I think Bell and Telus would be well served to get into 3G (HSPA) first.



fjnmusic said:


> Either way, I would be hesitant to get too attached to 3G technology with a three year contract. When 4G and 5G come out and you still have a data plan for three years for 3G technology at $30 a month minimum, you may wonder if that was money well spent.


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## blogndog (Sep 2, 2008)

fyrefly said:


> I think there's something in the 3G iPhone that already supports WCDMA, though I can't find a proper link to support where I read it. The best I've got right now is this:
> 
> Domo arigato, the iPhone is coming to Japan - The Unofficial Apple Weblog (TUAW)


There is not something "in" the 3G iphone that supports 3G, the 3G iphone IS a 3g, UMTS phone, and like all UMTS phones, it uses WCDMA as the air interface.


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## pangolin (Jun 22, 2008)

*TELUS announces evolution to fourth generation wireless*

It's in newswire...

CNW Group | TELUS CORPORATION | TELUS announces evolution to fourth generation wireless

VANCOUVER, Oct. 10 /CNW/ - TELUS today announced that it will build a
next generation wireless network using the most advanced mobile broadband
network technology. Reinforcing TELUS' leadership in the mobile broadband
market and the ability to provide clients with the best selection of wireless
services and networks in Canada, TELUS announced its commitment to a full
national launch of a next generation wireless service by early 2010 based on
the latest version of High Speed Packet Access (HSPA) technology. This
initiative ensures a smoother transition to long term evolution (LTE)
technology, the emerging worldwide fourth generation (4G) technology standard, as it becomes available.

TELUS Mobility - Network Evolution (HSPA)


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