# apple's new SDK- development rules.



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

The other day, Apple dropped a bit of a bomb on many of us developers. It was the new rule, stating that all app development must be originally coded in the specified allowed languages, ruling out the use of any compilers, translators etc. Now, at first glance, many saw this a really serious shot off the bow against adobe, who, in 3 days was set to release CS5, with a much advertised feature in flash, which allowed a developer, to develop an app, and export it to multiple mobile devices, with an iphone exporter to export to a format that iphones understands. This has been tested extensively, and proven to work extremely well, and is quite stable. I've heard some arguments about the fact that well flash has security or performance issues, but these generally come from know nothings who parrot sites like the brainless daring fireball noted for repeated nonsense (over and over I might add...) The other argument I've heard, is that now we will have to put up with badly coded iphone apps, but I suppose those people haven't grasped that there are just as many "bad" objective -C programmers out there, who get rejected, and this is why they vet their apps.

No, this isn't about flash, or it's supposed performance issues. Adobe released player 10.1 which has proven to be a huge improvement. An understatement form my perspective. There are tests out there showing the supposed messiah of web standards html5 has the same potential of performance issues and horrible coding (i guess someone will have to come up with a new ad blocker to filter it all out) as flash, and nothing really, at least on the annoyance level is going to truthfully improve.

The real problem, is control. Apple couldn't afford, to allow a company as large as adobe, to release a platform for mobile development that allows a developer to build an app for iphones, win7 phones, and oh my god, android. Apple's dominance in the app world is one they will fight to maintain, so this isn't about flash and it's shortcomings.

But in the meantime, the backlash amongst the developer community has been powerful. Many see this as not a shot at adobe, but at developers. Because, there isn't just adobe, but there are actually, quite a few companies building platforms to build apps for multiple mobile platforms. So in essence, apple is saying, you're either with us, or you're against us, to developers. You either code in our specified language, which at present isn't useful much beyond iphone/ipad development, or screw you.

Here's an iphone developer I've visited many times for info.
The iPhone App Developers' Blog: iPhone Programming, Developer News, Interviews And Tutorials — Mobile Orchard

Well, I'm hearing quite the screw you from developers. Iphone app development will continue, as it always has. _But what this has done though, is galvanize a large community of developers, who will now develop for android, nokia, and win7 to ensure competition._Myself included. I bet those companies are sitting back, smiling... This is no longer about flash, or even adobe for that matter.

I will still continue to develop for iphone, but I, like many other developers, will make it a point to develop for android etc. Besides, the gold rush on iphone is slowing, the others, are just getting off the ground! Developers, don't enjoy being dictated to, and it appears apple, doesn't seem to care.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

This guy gets it:


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

All the more reason to Jailbreak.


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

SINC said:


> This guy gets it:


I don't understand that pic.

There is plenty of free software for the iphone platform, DRM on music is long gone, and has there ever been a case of apple remotely disabling device without the consent of the owner?


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Good explanation groovetube. I think you are spot on. Of course, all developers know that they are at the whim of the platform for which they develop. If you are a Palm developer, you are dependent on the numbers of Pre's that have been sold. If an Android developer, you're dependent on the number of devices with the various flavours of Android, etc. and what rules Google decides to apply. Windows Phone 7 seems to be following the Apple business model much more closely than the others (and has abandoned WinMo 6-type models). Apple is trying to put into place means to consolidate their lead in apps. Much as you or anyone else may not like it, it’s their perogative. As I mentioned in another thread, they have also thrown developers a bone through iAps. 

I am certainly not arguing that Apple is behaving nicely, but this is business and its not as though Google, Microsoft or RIM behave any differently (when they can).


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

used to be jwoodget said:


> I am certainly not arguing that Apple is behaving nicely, but *this is business* and its not as though Google, Microsoft or RIM behave any differently (when they can).


exactly.


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

I would suggest that anyone interested in this take a look at the article here at Appleinsider. 

Based on the limited knowledge that I have on this area, I think that the explanation provided in the Appleinsider article makes sense. 

One of my biggest beefs with some development platforms, and some developers, is their belief that they are free to produce whatever they want, test it under controlled or limited conditions, then blame other apps or the operating system when things go wrong. "It can't be our application because we tested it." Of course this is a huge problem with the Windows platform. It is always someone or something else's fault. Too often it is left up to the poor end user to sort things out. 

As much as you as a developer might disagree with what Apple has put into their new development agreement, you have a choice which it appears that you are going to execute. Feel free to reduce development on the Apple mobile platform and concentrate your efforts on other mobile platforms. 

But again from what limited knowledge that I have, one of the reasons why development has been so popular on the iPhone platform is because of the tightly controlled environment that Apple maintains. There is a reason for that, it improves the chance that applications are going to work.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

yes we've seen that excuse, and the debate rages. As I said in the other thread, it's unclear why android can do multitasking without locking down runtimes.It's carefully worded, to make sense to as many non developers as possible, to do a little damage control is my guess. But even as a developer, I am not 100% sure. But 3 days, before adobe releases the iphone packager, what a suckerpunch to the groin.

And the reason why development is popular on the iphone, has nothing to do with the tightly controlled environment, I can assure you. The minute someone else provides the kind of opportunity and dollars on a more, open system, get out of the way for the stampede...


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Try this article on for size:

Daring Fireball: Why Apple Changed Section 3.3.1


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## enon (Feb 12, 2010)

Screw Apple. Go with Windows or Android.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

chas_m said:


> Try this article on for size:
> 
> Daring Fireball: Why Apple Changed Section 3.3.1


he just reiterates what's already been said 100 times. I take daring fireball's anti flash bias with a grain of salt.

Particularly where he tries to pass off this as no change for developers. I guess he doesn't either know any, or read their blogs.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Yes, when your income depends on Flash, you become a far more unbiased and respected commentator than Jon Gruber.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

who's income -depends- on flash?


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

that's what I thought...


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

groovetube said:


> And the reason why development is popular on the iphone, has nothing to do with the tightly controlled environment, I can assure you. The minute someone else provides the kind of opportunity and dollars on a more, open system, get out of the way for the stampede...


Precisely groovetube, which is why Apple can do whatever they want to to maintain their market advantage. No one is forcing anyone to develop for the iPhone and even if Apple sent every developer a Ferrari California on their birthdays, a developers loyalty is to their potential market not Apple. The *only* reason any developer develops for a platform is because they believe they can make a living from it. There are no guarantees by any platform vendor that a given application will sell. Hence, the absolute best way for Apple to keep its developers is to do whatever it can to ensure they make money. Apple, in its wisdom, has decided that means keeping as much differential between the iPhone environment and the rest of the platforms through its specific interface, hardware (e.g. A4 chip), battery performance technologies, etc. and by enforcing a level of programming "discipline" that leverages these tools and features. They are not interested in applications that take the lowest common denominator approach because the coding tools were not optimized for the particular capabilities of the iPhone architecture.

By the way, multi-tasking on Android has all sorts of problems (which accounts for the popularity of task manager apps). I don't know if this is because of Androids implementation of multi-tasking (which is similar to Apple's in OS4) or due to badly behaving applications. Android is the wild west. Plenty of opportunity but lots of disarray too. I think the Nexus One is a good example of Google sending in the sheriffs.


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

groovetube said:


> And the reason why development is popular on the iphone, has nothing to do with the tightly controlled environment, I can assure you. The minute someone else provides the kind of opportunity and dollars on a more, open system, get out of the way for the stampede...


But it does, perhaps not in a direct way, but it does. 

Apple wasn't the first to create a smartphone, just as they were not the first to offer an MP3 device, or an iPad. In recent product introductions, Apple has taken a similar path. Take a device that has suffered from poor performance, and engineer it in a way that the average consumer will have little problems operating it. Note that I said average consumer, not average computer user. As much as we might not agree, they are two different levels of expertise. 

It is because of this 'it just works and is so damn simple to use' idea that makes it popular. Developers want to develop for what is hot. 

Add to this the idea that the development platform is basically one. Apps developed for the iPhone will work on an iPod Touch and iPad. There are exceptions if hardware features are not in a device but it is not as I understand it, the same as developing for the Blackberry (for example) with it's multitude of models that have a variety of screen shapes. 

This is going to change with the introduction of the 4.x OS. How much remains to be seen.

Finally, add to this mix the fact that Apple tests each application before it is released to the buying public. Some look at this as big brother watching, but I see it as the following: Apple has a reputation to uphold. They are not going to let anything out there that will tarnish the device's performance because it is usually the brand that is affected most when something fails to work. 

All of these factor in to the environment.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

used to be jwoodget said:


> Precisely groovetube, which is why Apple can do whatever they want to to maintain their market advantage. No one is forcing anyone to develop for the iPhone and even if Apple sent every developer a Ferrari California on their birthdays, a developers loyalty is to their potential market not Apple. The *only* reason any developer develops for a platform is because they believe they can make a living from it. There are no guarantees by any platform vendor that a given application will sell. Hence, the absolute best way for Apple to keep its developers is to do whatever it can to ensure they make money. Apple, in its wisdom, has decided that means keeping as much differential between the iPhone environment and the rest of the platforms through its specific interface, hardware (e.g. A4 chip), battery performance technologies, etc. and by enforcing a level of programming "discipline" that leverages these tools and features. They are not interested in applications that take the lowest common denominator approach because the coding tools were not optimized for the particular capabilities of the iPhone architecture.
> 
> By the way, multi-tasking on Android has all sorts of problems (which accounts for the popularity of task manager apps). I don't know if this is because of Androids implementation of multi-tasking (which is similar to Apple's in OS4) or due to badly behaving applications. Android is the wild west. Plenty of opportunity but lots of disarray too. I think the Nexus One is a good example of Google sending in the sheriffs.


no one can deny that it is up to apple in what they do to maintain that advantage.

Though, as someone who was one of the very few developers who switched to apple in 02/03, I have always liked apple and defended them. As time went on, developers have slowly began noticing the advantages of the platform, and notably, a couple things really presented themselves as advantages. Being really into php development and mySQL dev myself, it was a great thing to ditch M$, and certainly later, the ability to run windows (and other OSs like linux) on the same machine made it an even bigger slam dunk for a developer to use a mac. So at one time it was funny to suggest it was better to develop on a mac, and with some of these advantages the tables were turned.

The point of the user experience, being one of 'average users', not just 'computer users' was brought up. Point taken, but, I'm talking about developers here. We are a fickle bunch.

Now remember back when the fight between mac and PC was real, macs were arguably better user experience by a mile (!!) in many respects than pcs, mac users laughed at windows 1.0 and then windows 3.1, macs were the superior experience, and PCs, well, for the, 'average user', was a headache of a joke! And they were right!

We all know how that turned out. 

I think Steve Ballmer is a cartoon character, and certainly many people think so. But he had it right. Developers, developers, developers.

And what Apple did, was really **** off a whole lot of developers, and although likely it will do little to slow apple's success on the mobile platform certainly in the short term, for the first time, that I know of, there are suddenly many in the developers world walking around thinking, man, what a bunch of evil [insert a bad one here]. Some of us kinda had some beefs with adobe, but suddenly I sense a real switch in that.

I've been busy learning obj-C, preparing for building my first set of apps. Flash, I am very advanced in AS3, but I know several languages very well, and AS3 is nearly identical to several. The truth is, I can make money in any of them, but as a personal opinion, it would be a drag to see flash go down. All the flash haters are dummies, because all the things they dislike about flash, will not go away. The performance issues, cross browser issues, annoying ads (more of those to come I'm afraid), annoying websites, that just ain't gonna change. But what will change, is a very cool platform that is finally getting better attention (thanks in part to Mr. Jobs...) and I'm seeing improvements that are very cool.

I hadn't really considered doing work on the google phone, but I've decided to go get one now. And at least 5 or 6 other developers I know just ordered one.

Interesting.


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

groovetube said:


> no one can deny that it is up to apple in what they do to maintain that advantage.
> 
> Though, as someone who was one of the very few developers who switched to apple in 02/03, I have always liked apple and defended them. As time went on, developers have slowly began noticing the advantages of the platform, and notably, a couple things really presented themselves as advantages. Being really into php development and mySQL dev myself, it was a great thing to ditch M$, and certainly later, the ability to run windows (and other OSs like linux) on the same machine made it an even bigger slam dunk for a developer to use a mac. So at one time it was funny to suggest it was better to develop on a mac, and with some of these advantages the tables were turned.
> 
> ...


I have for years believed that there are two types of developers. 

The first group are those that take extra care to develop apps that are well tested, with specific requirements. In other words they take the responsibility to make sure that their users have the best user experience possible.

The second group will put out whatever crap they can. When their users experience problems they are quick to point out that it is the problem of something else. 

Sadly for many windows users, a very high percentage of windows developers fall into the second category. These developers are also quick to jump into developing applications that require a jailbroken iPhone. 

All developers need to eventually turn a profit. Just like any business, there are going to be the quick-buck artists that care only about today's sale and not about long-term customer loyalty. Now I will be the first to admit that things have changed considerably from the days of our fathers or grandfathers who were very brand loyal. But there are quite a few companies still in existence that make quality products, some with higher price tags to their direct competition but their customers know that they are purchasing products that have a cost of ownership value that makes them worthwhile investments.

I believe that Apple has made the right decision with the OS 4.0 developer agreement and conditions. Apple's recent overall performance has proven that they typically know what is in the best interests of their customers. Sadly Adobe's recent track record has not been as stellar. So what would make me accept that Apple is the bully here and Adobe is the victim?


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## vfr (Jul 22, 2009)

groovetube said:


> I've been busy learning obj-C, preparing for building my first set of apps. Flash, I am very advanced in AS3


That explains your position in this 'debate'. Come back in 6-9 months when you've mastered UIKit, Quartz 2D, Core Data, threading, Core Animation and all the other wonderful frameworks that make up iPhone OS (which shares about 80% of its source code with Mac OS X). Comparing Flash to iPhone OS is like comparing horse and buggy to a modern car. Yeah, both will get you there, but one is so out of date it physically hurts.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

first of all, I didn't compare flash to the iphone OS. AS3 is -one- language I know well and work in.

Secondly, weren't you the genius that tried to tell us that flash was mainly just a mechanism for delivering advertising? I guess that can tell us you know zip about the subject right there.

I tire of people who desperately need to show everyone they are the "real programmer', and somehow what their 'opponent' is Fisher price. And usually, they assume too much and don't know the extent of another's experience, in many other languages.

Go tell other people how wonderful you are.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

I dunno, Groovetube. No one is saying you have to write apps for the iPhone or the iPad. It's your choice. If Apple sets new parameters as its standard because it believes that makes for a better product, then you are free to agree or disagree. If you don't like the new dress code the boss sets, you can show up in whatever you prefer or you can play the game. Nobody wins by defying the boss, but sometimes you might be able to persuade the boss if your argument is valid. 

Apart from that, sounds like its time to suck it up. When my wife (then girlfriend) told me to give up cigarettes because she wasn't going to date a smoker, I had to ask myself: was my occasional vice actually good for me? Was her demand ultimately going to be better or worse for me. Well, it's 24 years later and I'll let you guess the answer.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Oakbridge said:


> I have for years believed that there are two types of developers.
> 
> The first group are those that take extra care to develop apps that are well tested, with specific requirements. In other words they take the responsibility to make sure that their users have the best user experience possible.
> 
> ...


That may be so. But don't make the mistake thinking that the developers on apple's platform, are somehow the "good guys", the purists who's heart is somehow, in the right place.

Developers are developers. They're hot on the iphone platform, because right now, that's the growing platform with the audience, and the opportunity to make money. Don't kid yourself. The minute another shows itself, they'll go there too in a heartbeat.

It isn't all just about user experience, as Mr. Jobs will have you believe. It's business.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

fjnmusic said:


> I dunno, Groovetube. No one is saying you have to write apps for the iPhone or the iPad. It's your choice. If Apple sets new parameters as its standard because it believes that makes for a better product, then you are free to agree or disagree. If you don't like the new dress code the boss sets, you can show up in whatever you prefer or you can play the game. Nobody wins by defying the boss, but sometimes you might be able to persuade the boss if your argument is valid.
> 
> Apart from that, sounds like its time to suck it up. When my wife (then girlfriend) told me to give up cigarettes because she wasn't going to date a smoker, I had to ask myself: was my occasional vice actually good for me? Was her demand ultimately going to be better or worse for me. Well, it's 24 years later and I'll let you guess the answer.


I'm not sure what the point of your post is. This isn't about -me- necessarily, or 'sucking it up', at all.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

groovetube said:


> I'm not sure what the point of your post is. This isn't about -me- necessarily, or 'sucking it up', at all.


Well it's pretty simple. The guy that holds the cards has stated that the rules have changed. He has given his reasons. You either adapt or you don't. As a teacher, I see this all the time whenever the curriculum or the policies change. I don't have to like it.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

well isn't that a revelation.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

groovetube said:


> well isn't that a revelation.


Alright. Sounds like you're not really interested in a conversation.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

I'm interested in conversation that hopefully doesn't involve someone belittling my work without actually knowing what I do, spouting absolute lies crap, or the equally intelligent "suck it up".

A few here seem capable of it thankfully.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

groovetube said:


> I'm interested in conversation that hopefully doesn't involve someone belittling my work without actually knowing what I do, spouting absolute lies crap, or the equally intelligent "suck it up".
> 
> A few here seem capable of it thankfully.


Sorry GT. Did not mean to belittle your work. However, my analogies, if you care to consider them, still hold. The world changes. We may not like it, and we have to decide at that point whether to change with it or hold on tightly to what we know. As a developer, you must know that there's a fortune to be made with this new device. I'm not a developer myself, but I've done a lot of reading on both sides of the argument. Sounds to me like Mr. Flash is being a bit of a big baby in telling Apple to go screw itself, not to mention shooting himself in the foot. Is that the kind of reactionary thinking you really want to endorse? Do you really think Flash is the kind of system you want to work with? Last I heard, BlackBerrys can't work with Flash any better than Apple products can.


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

I agree apple owns the device & appstore and they make the rules, but i also think that developers (and users) have the right to voice their displeasure if they don't agree with the direction Apple is moving.

Ultimately whether they decide to continue to develop or boycott the iphone is entirely their choice, but they also have the option to develop apps and bitch about the rules. Apple isn't their boss. Apple is their partner.

I'm still not sure if i agree on the new SDK rules. If natively coded apps do actually perform better then i guess i'm ok with it. But since Apple has seemingly crippled the original iphone from using OS 4 for no technical reason (other than greed) then i question this new turn that apple seems to be taking.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

Good point, I suppose.


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

Some posts I've been reading from non technical users can be summed up as follows;
"Why are Mommy and Daddy fighting?"


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

ha ha ha ha ha ha.
:lmao:


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

groovetube said:


> That may be so. But don't make the mistake thinking that the developers on apple's platform, are somehow the "good guys", the purists who's heart is somehow, in the right place.
> 
> Developers are developers. They're hot on the iphone platform, because right now, that's the growing platform with the audience, and the opportunity to make money. Don't kid yourself. The minute another shows itself, they'll go there too in a heartbeat.
> 
> It isn't all just about user experience, as Mr. Jobs will have you believe. It's business.


That was my point. Not all developers will jump platforms the way in which you describe The developers that you describe are part of the second group. They are the fast buck guys and quite frankly I don't mind them moving to whatever platform they choose. 

Yes it is business and the smart businesses will make the proper investments and realize the benefits of building a loyal customer base with well built applications.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

I'll have to disagree. The developers I know 'jumping ship', and some who never got on the ship, are some very fine and talented programmers who do fantastic work. 

Some are saying they feel apple is unpredictable, and these aren't flash developers that some are trying to paint as sour grapes. 

I don't agree with painting developers as "fast buck' because of their platform of choice.


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## mjollymo (Dec 5, 2009)

Louis Gerbarg, an iPhone app developer, chimed in with his two cents on the apples changing of the SDK policy. From someone on the outside looking in, he makes some strong arguments for Apple's possible motives to change. 

It's all about the framework

Good read I thought.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

thanks for the article, it was a good read.


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

Another view on why this is good.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Oakbridge said:


> Another view on why this is good.





> Why? Because it creates vanilla applications. Vanilla apps run everywhere but do not take advantage of what is specific to the iPhone platform. The UI won't be iPhone specific. The code will not take advantage of new innovations in the iPhone OS, like the specific way it will handle multi-tasking with 4.0. If anyone can create cross-platform apps easily the reason to have and use an iPhone is diminished.


Speaking as a developer, this is absolute pure BS. The nonsense spouted by apple arse kissers is astounding.

There already has been compilers in existence and heavily used for quite a while now, why does one other compiler suddenly change this?

There has been even for flash. Many platforms have their easier ways to develop, it doesn't prevent anyone from hitting up the hard core iphone sdk and making apps that make use of the latest features. This is very true on the flash platform even though there's plenty of easier ways besides opening up FDT in Eclipse and havin at 'er.

Apple better hope they get 75%. Because if the other platforms have 75% combined and one can deploy to all of them, eventually developers and companies will see apple as the minority platform that's too expensive to develop for. 

I think it won't be long that the other deep pockets will let Apple rule the mobile space. It's really in their court.


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## vfr (Jul 22, 2009)

groovetube said:


> Speaking as a developer, this is absolute pure BS.


Yeah, keep on blowing that BS smoke out your <bleep>.

Tell me when you can write image processing code on a background threads in Flash. Or real time audio processing for voice recognition like Dragon Dictation in Flash. Or 3D video games like Real Racing HD in Flash.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

someone wants/needs a hero sandwich it seems...


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## THPhoenix (Apr 10, 2010)

groovetube said:


> someone wants/needs a hero sandwich it seems...


Which means what exactly? Why not respond directly to his post, instead of making pithy comments?


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Respond to what? Some forum poster beating his chest about how smart he is? And that has to do with.... what exactly.

Speaking of pithy...

Fine.
1) no flash doesn't do the things he describes

2) not every app in the app store, requires it. In fact there are a massive number that doesn't. If you build an app that does, then use xcode!

done.

I hate people that think that yelling about how a real man programmer they are has any validity in an discussion. The old king of the castle and yer the dirty rascal routine. Intelligent! 
Hence my hero's sandwich comment.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Hopefully we're done beating our chests that only real men write obj-C.

Here's an interesting article Does iPhone OS 4.0 nix Adobe's Flash-to-iPhone compiler plans? | MacFormat


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