# Goodbye, Penny. RIP



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

According to the federal budget announcement, the penny is to be discontinued this fall.

Goodbye, penny. :-(

"Penny, penny bring me luck, 'cause I'm the person who picked you up" is what I say everytime I pick up a penny outside.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Guess Finance Minister Jim Flaherty does not want to hear my two-cents worth of advice on this matter. Still, it costs 1 1/2 cents to make each penny.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Canadians consider penniless future - Business - CBC News


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

*All Things Must Pass*

' :-(





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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

BigDL said:


> ' :-(
> 
> 
> 
> ...


C'est la vie, BigDL. At least they did not trade Moncton or St. John's for a bag of worn pennies.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Should make it easier for the tax masters to nickel and dime us into total surrender.beejacon


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## Chimpur (May 1, 2009)

It's not truly goodbye. All existing pennies will still be legal tender. And there are so many out there... I think I have a basket downstairs... 

I think they want to keep them legal tender because that will provide some protection against people melting the older copper ones down for scrap.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I still have my Canadian and British Large penny collection from the 1800's,
Shame to see the modern penny go, Guess I'd better buy some 2012 pennies before they become extinct.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Chimpur said:


> It's not truly goodbye. All existing pennies will still be legal tender. And there are so many out there... I think I have a basket downstairs...
> 
> I think they want to keep them legal tender because that will provide some protection against people melting the older copper ones down for scrap.


Yeah, But by eliminating the penny, Everything will be rounded off to the nearest nickel now.
Factor that idea into everything you buy, Gasoline will be interesting to see listed without cents or parts of cents.

Retail stores will no longer be able to say just 7.99, It'll have to be in fives now like 7.95


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Good residence I say. They literally cost more than they are worth when all factors are included.... thus why the decision to stop production... should have happened a long time ago.





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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Dr.G. said:


> Canadians consider penniless future - Business - CBC News


An article that was meant to be tongue in check without any references or sources except an opinion survey...

Fact is when you consider the cost of producing the penny (and all its associated handling costs) and not the benefits of picking them up of the street, the penny costs Canadians more money than they are worth... plain and simple.

For that matter I would like to see a study done to indicate whether or not coinage as we know it is worth the money to produce and handle it at all... in this day and age I highly doubt it is except in the case of loonies and loonies perhaps...

The sooner we have a completely reliable "cashless" society the better IMO it could save billions... and be better for the environment.


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

I wonder which businesses will round down...


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

screature said:


> The sooner we have a completely reliable "cashless" society the better IMO it could save billions... and be better for the environment.


I disagree. 'Cashless' is wrought with privacy issues and concerns. We don't need to be tracked in every aspect of our lives.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

You will have to stock up on U.S. pennies now for when you cross the border.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Yes. I wouldn't support a cashless society at all.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

mrjimmy said:


> I disagree. 'Cashless' is wrought with privacy issues and concerns. We don't need to be tracked in every aspect of our lives.


We're already most of the way there...

If you mean by "privacy" you mean those working tax free i.e. under the table and the criminal element well then yes cash is still king. 

Other than that tell me how a cash free society compromises your privacy in such a way that it justifies the HUGE costs involved with producing and handling the ENORMOUS amounts of physical cash and coinage required in a technologically advanced society where it really need no longer be necessary...

I *rarely* have cash on me any longer, I mean almost never, and I have never felt my privacy to be compromised...


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Macfury said:


> Yes. I wouldn't support a cashless society at all.


Ahh yes, I suspected this post would be forth coming from you MF.... from mrj I was a little more surprised. 

Cash is for the most part at this point in time a dinosaur in our modern economic systems, the only place where it seems to serve a real purpose is in face to face private transactions, but I suspect with the way apps on the iPhone and other smart devices it will be become less and less necessary for even those face to face encounters...

Probably won't happen in my lifetime but a cashless society would be like getting a monkey off of our collective backs as money is an abstract construct in the first place so why not keep it where it belongs... in abstraction i.e. bits and bytes as opposed to physical objects representing something of a non-fixed fluid value that fluctuates constantly.


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

screature said:


> Ahh yes, I suspected this post would be forth coming from you MF.... from mrj I was a little more surprised.


?

No cash = some form of electronic transaction. Electronic transaction = trackable. Trackable = invasion of privacy. Privacy = priceless.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

screature said:


> Probably won't happen in my lifetime but a cashless society would be like getting a monkey off of our collective backs as money is an abstract construct in the first place so why not keep it where it belongs... in abstraction i.e. bits and bytes as opposed to physical objects representing something of a non-fixed fluid value that fluctuates constantly.


Bit and bytes are more abstract than physical money.

And value doesn't "belong" anywhere. It will exist in whatever place society sees it.


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

Pennies always leave a particular metallic stink on my fingers, which I hate. Buh-bye.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

mrjimmy said:


> ?
> 
> No cash = some form of electronic transaction. Electronic transaction = trackable. Trackable = invasion of privacy. Privacy = priceless.


So why are you so interested in whether or not your transactions are "trackable"?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

screature said:


> So why are you so interested in whether or not your transactions are "trackable"?


Personally, because it's nobody's business what I buy. That's one reason I don't use Air Miles cards or similar promotions.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Macfury said:


> *Bit and bytes are more abstract than physical money.*
> 
> And value doesn't "belong" anywhere. It will exist in whatever place society sees it.


Exactly my point. No cost of transportation, handling, manufacturing, over and over and over again.... i.e. saves billions and billions over time... less gas, less environmental damage, trees, use of arable land for food crops vs. cotton in the case of the the US, less use of valuable minerals being diverted for monetary transactions vs. use in infrastructure etc... 

I know it seems foreign now, but the writing is on the proverbial wall... the day is coming and society will benefit from it when it happens IMO.


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## fellfromtree (May 18, 2005)

screature said:


> We're already most of the way there...
> 
> If you mean by "privacy" you mean those working tax free i.e. under the table and the criminal element well then yes cash is still king.
> 
> Other than that tell me how a cash free society compromises your privacy


I don't use rewards cards like Shoppers Optimum. I don't buy booze with plastic or debit.
In the (near) future, your insurance co (bank, employer, etc) will have access to all this recorded info. The day is coming when this info is used against you. They will see what they want to see in this info and deny or charge for services based on that info.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Macfury said:


> Personally, because it's nobody's business what I buy. That's one reason I don't use Air Miles cards or similar promotions.


Do you use Interac? Do you file your taxes on line? Do you use PayPal? Do you use electronic "cash"transfers? Do you use a credit card? Do you pay your bills online? Do you have electronic deposits from your employer? etc. etc...?

If not then you are in the minority... like I said the concept may still seem foreign to some but a cashless day is coming IMO and we as a whole will be better off for it.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

screature said:


> Exactly my point. No cost of transportation, handling, manufacturing, over and over and over again.... i.e. saves billions and billions over time... less gas, less environmental damage, trees, use of arable land for food crops vs. cotton in the case of the the US, less use of valuable minerals being diverted for monetary transactions vs. use in infrastructure etc...
> 
> I know it seems foreign now, but the writing is on the proverbial wall... the day is coming and society will benefit from it when it happens IMO.


Bits and bytes are more easily manipulated than physical money.

I suspect that the total cost of producing money--transportation, environmental, etc.--are not going to save huge amounts. I also suspect we will never be completely cashless although I agree that more and more transactions will be electronic.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Macfury said:


> Bits and bytes are more easily manipulated than physical money.
> 
> I suspect that the total cost of producing money--transportation, environmental, etc.--are not going to save huge amounts. *I also suspect we will never be completely cashless* although I agree that more and more transactions will be electronic.


Well never say never, but cash as we know it is clearly going the way of the Dodo... and IMO that is a good thing.


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## Kazak (Jan 19, 2004)

I will not miss the penny. I have wanted it gone for years now.


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## Kazak (Jan 19, 2004)

I was pretty sure there was a previous discussion.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

screature said:


> Well never say never, but cash as we know it is clearly going the way of the Dodo... and IMO that is a good thing.


Well, we here are in NL are in an uproar over the new five dollar coin proposed by the Canadian mint -- the Newfie ......... as in "new five" ........... but with the new ten dollar coin being called "the baboonie" (for the imprint of the rare Labrador Baboon on the back of the coin), that will ease our pain somewhat. Not sure how the country will feel about the ten dollar "raccoonie", the twenty dollar "beefaroni" (for Alberta prime grade A beef) or the fifty dollar "Mulroney" .............. with the picture of an Airbus plane on the back. With a plastic $100 bill, that will not be replaced by the Canadian Mint with a coin.


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

screature said:


> Do you use Interac? Do you file your taxes on line? Do you use PayPal? Do you use electronic "cash"transfers? Do you use a credit card? Do you pay your bills online? Do you have electronic deposits from your employer? etc. etc...?


It's a pretty substantial minority yet.

Taking money from the lower economic levels as I do,  there's a lot of people that we deal with that pay rent in cash. Many of them don't have bank accounts or get paid in cash.

Is it coming? Well probably. But it's probably a lot further away that most of us who can answer 'yes' to most of the above realize.


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

Macfury said:


> Personally, because it's nobody's business what I buy. That's one reason I don't use Air Miles cards or similar promotions.


What he said.


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## Amiga2000HD (Jan 23, 2007)

With respect to going to all electronic payments: I'm surprised nobody mentioned this but cash always works.

Cash doesn't depend on debit/credit card machines being in working order, phone or data lines in working order, power, you cards in working order, etc. For example, I don't usually pay with cash in restaurants but I've had to twice in the last year because of flakey card payment terminals that just didn't work no matter how many times the staff tried to get it to read my card. I don't think being able to buy and sell things should be entirely dependent on technology that can experience breakdowns.

There is something to be said for having money existing as physical printed paper or stamped metal that don't have moving parts, don't require electricity, and aren't subject to computer or communications problems. When was the last time you found out you couldn't pay for a cup of coffee because the coins in your pocket suddenly decided to stop working?


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

fellfromtree said:


> I don't use rewards cards like Shoppers Optimum. I don't buy booze with plastic or debit.
> In the (near) future, your insurance co (bank, employer, etc) will have access to all this recorded info. The day is coming when this info is used against you. They will see what they want to see in this info and deny or charge for services based on that info.


...and what he said.


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## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

I hate coins in general as I don't have anywhere to put the damn things so for me this makes far too much cents. I use interac or visa 95 percent of the time I'm purchasing something so really this won't have any impact on my at all. Pennies & nickels I just toss in the closest donation box I can find next to a till so if anyone is really impacted by this I'd think i'd would be those institutions that rely on donation boxes.


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## slipstream (May 9, 2011)

Makes cents to me too, though I have nostalgic memories of literally saving my pennies for treats as a kid.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

fellfromtree said:


> I don't use rewards cards like Shoppers Optimum. I don't buy booze with plastic or debit.
> In the (near) future, your insurance co (bank, employer, etc) will have access to all this recorded info. The day is coming when this info is used against you. They will see what they want to see in this info and deny or charge for services based on that info.





mrjimmy said:


> ...and what he said.


Just a thought, but if either of you chaps need your tinfoil hats adjusted, I'd be happy to give them a minor slap for you.


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

SINC said:


> Just a thought, but if either of you chaps need your tinfoil hats adjusted, I'd be happy to give them a minor slap for you.


Funny that you think this is implausible.


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

Good move axing the penny.

I've been saying they should do this since I first heard they did this in Australia (a decade ago?). Pennies are a huge waste of time, and a waste of money. I think they should look at nickels too.

I understand there are rules in Aus for exactly how the rounding up or down is supposed to work and those who take cash are required to follow them. I'm seeing lots of comments on news sites that everyone is assuming all stores will simply round everything up. Does anyone know if there are supposed to be binding rules that go along with this? If not, they should put them in place.

Once every year or so, I actually commend the Harper government for something. That was probably it for a while.


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## simon (Nov 2, 2002)

Lawrence said:


> Yeah, But by eliminating the penny, Everything will be rounded off to the nearest nickel now.
> Factor that idea into everything you buy, Gasoline will be interesting to see listed without cents or parts of cents.
> 
> Retail stores will no longer be able to say just 7.99, It'll have to be in fives now like 7.95


The prices of individual items shouldn't change, just your grand total after taxes. Your example won't work because$7.95 after tax is $8.98 which would then be rounded up or down IF paying for the item in cash. Electronic payments like credit and debit or if paid by cheque the total won't change.


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

Well life just got more expensive. Oh well. Everything will be rounded up - Never seen a business round down before - like they said HST was to improve my life and make things cheaper. Still waiting, just made everything more expensive and more work.
So as the saying goes - all the savings will be passed on to the consumer. :-(

Now those darn 5 cents plus taxes grocery bags just got more too Instead of 6cents they will round up. 
I will vote for a political party who will bring back free bags - no questions asked. - don't care who the leader is and their notorious or questionable back ground.

Edit : oil companies will have field day with hourly price of gas changes. Get ready for a new anal opening. :-(


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

The Doug said:


> Pennies always leave a particular metallic stink on my fingers, which I hate. Buh-bye.


Same with me, Doug. Paix, mon ami.

Why Do Coins Make Your Hands Smell Funny? - Mental Floss


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Getting rid of the penny will be the biggest blunder for the cons,
It'd be easier to just make the penny cheaper, Like poke out the middle and add a cheap metal.

People are going to get so upset with rounding up for everything,
It might even cost the cons the next election.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Lawrence said:


> Getting rid of the penny will be the biggest blunder for the cons,
> It'd be easier to just make the penny cheaper, Like poke out the middle and add a cheap metal.
> 
> People are going to get so upset with rounding up for everything,
> It might even cost the cons the next election.


Interesting if that were the issue that brought him down ........... rather than the F-35s or the "reformed" prison system.


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## dstanic (Feb 18, 2012)

I am an auto detailer, in other words I vacuum cars all the time. It's not worth my time to fish out pennies from under the seat of a car, I just vacuum them up! Sometimes I even suck up the nickles and dimes if they are dirty, but I always stop and put the quarters in my pocket.

Most of the time I pay with plastic so if I get ripped off $0.05 the odd time I pay cash, no big deal. If anyone wants to buy my tinfoil hat it's in my closet, on sale for $0.03! (no pennies please)


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

Lawrence said:


> Getting rid of the penny will be the biggest blunder for the cons,
> It'd be easier to just make the penny cheaper, Like poke out the middle and add a cheap metal.


Actually, the idea came from the NDP. 

NDP MP wants to eliminate Canada's penny


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Lawrence said:


> Getting rid of the penny will be the biggest blunder for the cons,
> It'd be easier to just make the penny cheaper, Like poke out the middle and add a cheap metal.
> 
> People are going to get so upset with rounding up for everything,
> It might even cost the cons the next election.


:lmao:


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

dstanic said:


> I am an auto detailer, in other words I vacuum cars all the time. It's not worth my time to fish out pennies from under the seat of a car, I just vacuum them up! Sometimes I even suck up the nickles and dimes if they are dirty, but I always stop and put the quarters in my pocket.
> 
> Most of the time I pay with plastic so if I get ripped off $0.05 the odd time I pay cash, no big deal. If anyone wants to buy my tinfoil hat it's in my closet, on sale for $0.03! (no pennies please)


YOU THIEF. :lmao: - I just lost trust in the auto detail business - no ash tray is safe!!


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Sonal said:


> Actually, the idea came from the NDP.
> 
> NDP MP wants to eliminate Canada's penny


Actually the *idea* has been around for at least 20 years... Martin's Bill was just the first PMB to propose it in the House of Commons.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

Amiga2000HD said:


> With respect to going to all electronic payments: I'm surprised nobody mentioned this but cash always works.


Actually, that's not true. Cash works 99% of the time. Anyone has the right to refuse to be paid in cash, though, and I've seen a few refuse cash. Usually, they refuse larger bills.

As well, it can take longer at some places to pay in cash, as they will verify the bills, and in some places they actually have to walk it over to the supervisor or manager to verify. One of the reason I avoid ATMs that give out $50s, and if I do get an ATM that gives out $50s, I usually try to get rid of the $50s quick.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Lawrence said:


> Getting rid of the penny will be the biggest blunder for the cons,
> It'd be easier to just make the penny cheaper, Like poke out the middle and add a cheap metal.
> 
> People are going to get so upset with rounding up for everything,
> It might even cost the cons the next election.


just imagine for minute, the sheer outrage of all businesses and retailers, who no longer, can use the incredibly powerful and effective tool of the .99

Chaos. Total economic chaos.


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## MLeh (Dec 23, 2005)

Oh, for heaven's sake. We've never had 10th of cents available but that hasn't stopped the gas retailers from pricing things at .9. This hyperbole is irritating. Do you people have nothing better to do with your lives? 

For one thing, pennies will still be legal tender. Just because the mint won't be MAKING them doesn't mean they won't be around.

Sheesh ...


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

groovetube said:


> just imagine for minute, the sheer outrage of all businesses and retailers, who no longer, can use the incredibly powerful and effective tool of the .99
> 
> Chaos. Total economic chaos.


See, that's the question no-one has asked so far. Is will they round up the price of items OR will they simply round up the total price when you go to check out? Frankly, I would think it would make more sense to leave prices of products alone and just round up the total price at the register. Registers already have to round prices to the nearest penny anyways when taxes are applied.

ex. taxes are 13% price is 1.99, so that's 1.13 x 1.99 = 2.2487 or 2.25


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

MLeh said:


> Oh, for heaven's sake. We've never had 10th of cents available but that hasn't stopped the gas retailers from pricing things at .9. This hyperbole is irritating. Do you people have nothing better to do with your lives?
> 
> For one thing, pennies will still be legal tender. Just because the mint won't be MAKING them doesn't mean they won't be around.
> 
> Sheesh ...


I was sorta half kidding.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

MLeh said:


> Oh, for heaven's sake. We've never had 10th of cents available but that hasn't stopped the gas retailers from pricing things at .9. This hyperbole is irritating. Do you people have nothing better to do with your lives?
> 
> For one thing, pennies will still be legal tender. Just because the mint won't be MAKING them doesn't mean they won't be around.
> 
> Sheesh ...


Oh great, Now I can't decide,
Scrap dealer, Coin dealer for my large cents from the 1800's.


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

Kosh said:


> See, that's the question no-one has asked so far. Is will they round up the price of items OR will they simply round up the total price when you go to check out? Frankly, I would think it would make more sense to leave prices of products alone and just round up the total price at the register. Registers already have to round prices to the nearest penny anyways when taxes are applied.
> 
> ex. taxes are 13% price is 1.99, so that's 1.13 x 1.99 = 2.2487 or 2.25


They'll round up or round down grand totals on sales after taxes on cash transactions only. The government has a web page addressing questions: Budget 2012




























*What I want is for them to remove the nickel now.* But there are a few things that would have to be adjusted for that. I think they'd have to get rid of the quarter and probably go with a 50¢ piece. And I'm not sure how the rounding formula would work.

Between $1 and $1.05 the mid-point is $1.025 whereas the midpoint between $1 and $1.10 is $1.05, so how do you evenly and fairly round up or down? Other countries have done it, so there must be a method that works.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I was afraid Angela Cartwright had died.


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

Macfury said:


> I was afraid Angela Cartwright had died.


Apparently not, but if she visits Canada she'll be penniless.


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## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

The conservatives have really managed to distract everyone with the discussion of the penny. The media has given it a ton of coverage.

$11 million in savings per year is nothing in terms of the federal budget and/or deficit.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

smashedbanana said:


> $11 million in savings per year is nothing in terms of the federal budget and/or deficit.


No, but an accumulation of smaller savings will make a real difference on the balance sheet.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Macfury said:


> No, but an accumulation of smaller savings will make a real difference on the balance sheet.


AS they say, "A penny saved is a penny earned."


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

smashedbanana said:


> The conservatives have really managed to distract everyone with the discussion of the penny. The media has given it a ton of coverage.
> 
> $11 million in savings per year is nothing in terms of the federal budget and/or deficit.


Of course it is something and that isn't taking into consideration all the associated handling costs of those same pennies year after year by businesses and financial institutions. 

It is a smart decision and one that should have happened a longgg time ago. To "diss" it as a point of distraction and "meager savings" is to completely miss the point and the long term big picture.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> ...*What I want is for them to remove the nickel now.* But there are a few things that would have to be adjusted for that. I think they'd have to get rid of the quarter and probably go with a 50¢ piece. And I'm not sure how the rounding formula would work.
> 
> Between $1 and $1.05 the mid-point is $1.025 whereas the midpoint between $1 and $1.10 is $1.05, so how do you evenly and fairly round up or down? Other countries have done it, so there must be a method that works.


The sooner the better... In Mexico they have the peso, 50 centavos: (.50 pesos) and 10 centavos: (.10 pesos) and that's it. They manage to make it work.


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

screature said:


> The sooner the better... In Mexico they have the peso, 50 centavos: (.50 pesos) and 10 centavos: (.10 pesos) and that's it. They manage to make it work.


When I was in Mexico in the early '80s, the Peso was valued around 150 Pesos to a US dollar. At that time the centavo coins were not used by anyone, even the poorest of the poor. Since then I gathered they've re-adjusted the Peso's valuation, so it's closer to where it's been historically.

The point here is the value or uselessness of smaller denominations is based on granularity.

When I was a kid in the 1960s a nickel was worth at least what a quarter would be now (or maybe more) and a penny would have been worth at least what a nickel or dime is worth. That was plenty of granularity back then for selling all kinds of goods and making all sorts of transactions. When a denomination gets to the point where it's no longer useful it should be done away with. Unlike Mexico, we aren't going to re-evaluate our currency, slow and steady inflation over decades has reduced these coins value.

We still retain the granularity for transactions on paper and if necessary some things are charged for in portions of a penny, such as gasoline or electric power.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Mexican peso is trading around 12 to 13 per 1 CDN. It's fairly rare that you get the ten centavo coins in change... but common enough that I have a jar on my bookshelf full of 'em that one of these days I gotta get rid of.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> When I was in Mexico in the early '80s, the Peso was valued around 150 Pesos to a US dollar. At that time the centavo coins were not used by anyone, even the poorest of the poor. Since then I gathered they've re-adjusted the Peso's valuation, so it's closer to where it's been historically.
> 
> *The point here is the value or uselessness of smaller denominations is based on granularity.*
> 
> ...


Exactly. I would argue that like Mexico all the granularity we need is 0.1 and 0.5 in terms of coinage, and + or - 0.05 is not going to make any difference to anyone in in this day and age with the cost of just about everything being over $1.

When we were in Mexico for 10 days in February I received about two 50 centavos pieces and never even saw a 10 centavos piece.


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## MLeh (Dec 23, 2005)

Can you still by Mojos two for a penny?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

MLeh said:


> Can you still by Mojos two for a penny?


Mojos are a nickel.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

MLeh said:


> Can you still by Mojos two for a penny?





Macfury said:


> Mojos are a nickel.


I know various meanings of the word mojo but none that fit this context. What is a mojo in the context you are talking about?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

A small chewy candy wrapped in wax paper. They were two for a penny for the longest time.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

Macfury said:


> Mojos are a nickel.


Oh, I loved Mojos, when I was young.


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## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

screature said:


> Of course it is something and that isn't taking into consideration all the associated handling costs of those same pennies year after year by businesses and financial institutions.
> 
> It is a smart decision and one that should have happened a longgg time ago. To "diss" it as a point of distraction and "meager savings" is to completely miss the point and the long term big picture.



The federal budget is $276 Billion dollars with $21 Billion of that being deficit! That is the big picture.

$11 million is mathematically SMALL. Handling costs will not make that change in an significant form. You don't even know what handling charges are quantitatively.

There are real changes in the budget that affect everyone that deserve more air time than this. That is all I am saying. 

Wasn't it C.D. Howe that said what is a $1 Million dollars in the federal budget (in the fifties)? What's $11 million 60 years later?


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

smashedbanana said:


> The federal budget is $276 Billion dollars with $21 Billion of that being deficit! That is the big picture.
> 
> $11 million is mathematically SMALL. *Handling costs will not make that change in an significant form*. You don't even know what handling charges are quantitatively.
> 
> ...


Seems you are reading different news than I am... I have seen maybe a couple of articles on the subject and I look at news aggregators every day as part of my work. 

And really moving tons upon tons of coinage across the country isn't going to add significantly to the cost year after year after year...?

For some reason it seems to be a sensitive issue for you... Why would the government continue to produce a coin that costs more than it is worth? Something maybe you should stop to think about.

Sure there are bigger issues but it isn't like this one is being discussed to the exclusion of others, if you don't want to talk about it you are free to not join in.


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## MLeh (Dec 23, 2005)

smashedbanana said:


> The federal budget is $276 Billion dollars with $21 Billion of that being deficit! That is the big picture.
> 
> $11 million is mathematically SMALL. Handling costs will not make that change in an significant form. You don't even know what handling charges are quantitatively.
> 
> ...


Well, feel free to bring up other items in the budget that you would like to discuss. This topic was started regarding the penny.

But I was taught "if you mind the pennies the pounds will mind themselves", which would be 'pennies and dollars' in Canadian parlance. These things add up, and you can't completely ignore all the 'measley $11 Million dollar' items, because they will add up. 

As another perspective, if the average tax payer pays $20,000 in taxes in a year (a wild guess, and I'm sure someone here will provide the actual correct average tax paid), then $11 million dollars 'not wasted' is the same as the 'hard earned taxes of 550 hard working Canadians not being wasted'. I'd just as soon my taxes not be wasted. How about you?


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Macfury said:


> A small chewy candy wrapped in wax paper. They were two for a penny for the longest time.


Ahh I see... never had one, never even recall seeing them in my neck of the woods growing up.


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## msreyes (Oct 21, 2009)

I will not miss the penny at all.


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## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

screature said:


> Seems you are reading different news than I am... I have seen maybe a couple of articles on the subject and I look at news aggregators every day as part of my work.
> 
> And really moving tons upon tons of coinage across the country isn't going to add significantly to the cost year after year after year...?
> 
> ...


I am not sensitive to this topic at all.

My point is that the penny has gotten more attention that warranted for such a small savings. In all media, not exclusively in this forum. It's a low hanging fruit that the Conservatives grabbed. 

Everyone is free to discuss whatever. My point is simply that it is diversionary, in my humble opinion. You agree or don't.

I responded to your comment that the "handling fees" will somehow make it more substantial. That's only supposition. In the same way that I could say to you taking the penny out of circulation will cost us more than we will save (those same transport costs, destruction of the penny, credit to banks and consumers, inventory, tracking, etc.). It's a number I can't give you so no point pretending it's a good argument...


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

smashedbanana said:


> I am not sensitive to this topic at all.
> *
> My point is that the penny has gotten more attention that warranted* for such a small savings. In all media, not exclusively in this forum. *It's a low hanging fruit that the Conservatives grabbed. *
> 
> ...


On this we will have to agree to disagree as have seen a relatively small amount of media about it.

The idea has been studied by the Senate and proposed through a PMB by a NDP MP before this and adopted by other countries before the Cons plucked this "low hanging fruit" and the low hanging fruit should be plucked first, it is just a common rule of thumb whether you are a gardener, orchardist, or politician.

There is no doubt handling fees add to the cost of the penny... just how much that is certainly is up for debate as I doubt a comprehensive study has ever been done...

All I know is I still continue to get pennies form the 50' and 60's... Imagine how many times they have been moved around the country multiplied by several 100 million or so, time and time again... That is the point I am and have been making... 

They cost far more than they are worth when you consider all the associated costs and have been for decades... stopping production of them is a good thing regardless of whether or not you think this fact has more media attention than what it is worth... 

I could say the same thing on a daily basis of at least 50% of what I read in the media.

Pennies will not be "destroyed", they will be melted down and then sold and used for copper piping, wiring etc...

So it goes... Ashes to ashes...


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

Current pennies are less than 5% copper.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

The Doug said:


> Current pennies are less than 5% copper.


I did not know that... 

What constitutes the rest?... 

According to recent studies the penny is still more expensive to produce than its face value so I would be interested to know what, despite what else is in it, makes it so, seeing as copper constitutes such a small percentage of its contents.


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

screature said:


> I did not know that...
> 
> What constitutes the rest?


These days? Steel. Previously zinc.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Sonal said:


> These days? Steel. Previously zinc.


Interesting... that being the case I still suspect pennies will not be "destroyed", they will be melted down, their individual contents extracted (to the best we are able to do) and re-sold back into the economy for useful purposes... 

There is no reason why a penny should be "destroyed" without some of its value being reclaimed... and from the sounds of it the older the penny (regardless its "collectability") the more its worth as scrap metal.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

Think of the penny as the Kindle Fire of Canadian currency.


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## MLeh (Dec 23, 2005)

Why would they need to destroy the existing pennies? The mint will no longer be making them, but nowhere have I read that it will no longer be valid currency. Can't we just keep using them?


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

MLeh said:


> Why would they need to destroy the existing pennies? The mint will no longer be making them, but nowhere have I read that it will no longer be valid currency. Can't we just keep using them?


My understanding is that we can keep using them as legal tender, but eventually, they'll just fade out of use.

I imagine a young cashier one day in the future being presented with some pennies and saying "Uh, what are these?"


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

Sonal said:


> My understanding is that we can keep using them as legal tender, but eventually, they'll just fade out of use.
> 
> I imagine a young cashier one day in the future being presented with some pennies and saying "Uh, what are these?"


I think retailers will need a little more detail on how exactly this transition is to work and the penny's status as legal tender.

The government has stated that they expect retailers to round prices up or down following a particular method, but I'm wondering about a situation where a customer insists on presenting pennies as payment. If a customer pays with something besides cash the total is exact to the penny, but if a customer pays with cash the total is supposed to be rounded up or down. If a customer insists on paying the exact amount with pennies rather than a rounded up amount, would the retailer be allowed to refuse?

Within a few years, if retailers aren't giving out pennies in change and the Mint isn't distributing them, they will disappear, but in the meantime, cashiers might be subject to many uncomfortable discussions with the penny-wise, pound-foolish sort, if there aren't any firm guidelines.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

Sonal said:


> My understanding is that we can keep using them as legal tender, but eventually, they'll just fade out of use.
> 
> I imagine a young cashier one day in the future being presented with some pennies and saying "Uh, what are these?"


Anybody remember the old reddish two dollar bills? Or how about the relatively rare 50 cent coins?


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## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

screature said:


> Interesting... that being the case I still suspect pennies will not be "destroyed", they will be melted down, their individual contents extracted (to the best we are able to do) and re-sold back into the economy for useful purposes...
> 
> There is no reason why a penny should be "destroyed" without some of its value being reclaimed... and from the sounds of it the older the penny (regardless its "collectability") the more its worth as scrap metal.


Old money is destroyed.


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> The government has stated that they expect retailers to round prices up or down following a particular method, but I'm wondering about a situation where a customer insists on presenting pennies as payment. If a customer pays with something besides cash the total is exact to the penny, but if a customer pays with cash the total is supposed to be rounded up or down. If a customer insists on paying the exact amount with pennies rather than a rounded up amount, would the retailer be allowed to refuse?


I wouldn't think so. Nor would it ultimately matter.

In accounting, these differences of a few pennies often get written off to as a discrepancy. GAAP rules cover how to handle this, so in the end it all gets sorted.

In any case, it would get balanced out by the people who say "Don't worry about the pennies, keep them."


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

smashedbanana said:


> Old money is destroyed.


Old paper money is... I have never seen any indication that this is true of coinage. Have any link verifying that this is the case beyond being melted down and re-purposed?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

screature said:


> Old paper money is... I have never seen any indication that this is true of coinage. Have any link verifying that this is the case beyond being melted down and re-purposed?


Even the Canadian Mint does not say much about this melting down of coins.

Coin Recycling


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## MLeh (Dec 23, 2005)

Like I keep saying - they've only said that they're not going to produce any more, not take them out of circulation.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Dr.G. said:


> Even the Canadian Mint does not say much about this melting down of coins.
> 
> Coin Recycling


Seems like by the language they use... i.e. "recycling" they make use of coins by recycling them as opposed to "destroying" them.... I don't know how one could equate destruction with recycling... It would make zero sense to NOT reuse/re-purpose the metals in old/discontinued coins...


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

MLeh said:


> Like I keep saying - they've only said that they're not going to produce any more, not take them out of circulation.


I hear you MLeh... 

At this point it is unclear, but I think one can assume that if the gov is stopping production of the penny and producing rules for "rounding" the penny is on its way out and it will be a matter of attrition over time until they *no longer exist* (won't happen) or are *accepted as currency* (will happen IMO, then they really become collectible )... this has happened countless times in the history of any currency in Canada and around the world.


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

Goodbye penny, hello MintChip?

Royal Canadian Mint to create digital currency - thestar.com



> Still in the research and development phase, MintChip will ultimately let people pay each other directly using smartphones, USB sticks, computers, tablets and clouds. The digital currency will be anonymous and good for small transactions — just like cash, the Mint says.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Those copper pennies can be used to make up the brass component in the centre of a toonie.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Sonal said:


> Goodbye penny, hello MintChip?
> 
> Royal Canadian Mint to create digital currency - thestar.com


Yes oh yes... one step closer to a cashless society... :greedy:


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## smashedbanana (Sep 23, 2006)

screature said:


> Seems like by the language they use... i.e. "recycling" they make use of coins by recycling them as opposed to "destroying" them.... I don't know how one could equate destruction with recycling... It would make zero sense to NOT reuse/re-purpose the metals in old/discontinued coins...


That link is about re-circulation. Recycling is a nicer term, very "in" right now.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

How getting rid of the penny makes cents for you - Yahoo! Finance Canada

I thought this was a nice article on the subject.


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

The CDN_Penny Twitter account is also trying to make the best of this terminal situation.
Show Your Roll


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Kosh said:


> How getting rid of the penny makes cents for you - Yahoo! Finance Canada
> 
> I thought this was a nice article on the subject.


Gee where did we hear this before? 



> ...Even the environment will profit
> 
> By discontinuing the mint of the penny, Canada is able to reduce the base metals being used to create it and can recycle the materials from the pennies melted down.
> 
> In addition, since billions of pennies no longer need to be transported across the country, the negative environmental effects of distribution are lessened as well...


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

All good reasons, but I will miss it.

Let's raise a glass to toast the late Canadian penny. I propose we meet at the Nickelfarthing Pub.


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

Final penny rolls off the line today


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

chas_m said:


> All good reasons, but I will miss it.
> 
> Let's raise a glass to toast the late Canadian penny. I propose we meet at the Nickelfarthing Pub.


Amen, Brother chas. The first round is on me. Paix, mon ami.


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