# Apple sued by Toronto lawyer over stolen MacBook Pro



## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

The *Toronto Star* reports that Apple is being sued over a MacBook Pro and accessories that was purchased at the Apple Store in the Yorkdale Mall and stolen shortly after. 

When the Toronto based lawyer, Michael Deverett, made his purchase totaling $2,248.53 at the Apple Store in the Yorkdale Mall, he walked his purchase to his car and drove away, stopping at a convenience store to quick pick something up. When he returned to his car a few minutes laters, someone had smashed and grabbed his new Macbook Pro, iPod touch and other items. 

It appears that the thieves had followed him from the Yorkdale Mall and that this was not the first time criminals had used this same tactic. 

Michael Deverett sued Apple citing that criminal rings in the U.S. have been using the same tactics and that he should have been warned of the potential danger. 

In an interesting sub-note, Apple also later serviced Deverett’s stolen MacBook Pro for someone else _after_ he called Apple and told him it was stolen. It's very interesting because I know several other ehMac members have posted similar stories that Apple has serviced products that have been reported as stolen. We've even had a thread by someone asking, "If i take a stolen macbook to the apple store, do they check to see if its stolen?" 

Thefts of stolen Apple products happens quite often and is posted about on ehMac, and one of the first inclinations is to report the theft to Apple, but it appears Apple doesn't do a whole lot with the information. 

*The article* goes on to report that when it came to Deverett’s case, their responsibility ended with the sale. 

_“Apple Canada does not owe a duty of care to customers once they have left its retail store,”’_ according to the statement filed by Apple Canada in the Deverett lawsuit.

_“It would be next to impossible to warn each customer that, depending on what part of town they may drive to next, they may be the target of a theft. Apple Canada does not owe a duty of care regarding stolen products, in particular if it is not notified by the owner. Apple Canada cannot reasonably foresee any risk of harm to customers when it does not know the product’s intended user or destination.”_

*Read the full article*. 

What do you think? Could Apple do more in warning customers about potential dangers of it's desirable products being stolen? What about once a product is stolen and reported to Apple?


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## Mopar (Nov 14, 2011)

Sounds like some one should have put the items in a locked trunk instead of leaving in plain sight.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

It was a hatchback.



Mopar said:


> Sounds like some one should have put the items in a locked trunk instead of leaving in plain sight.


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

Mopar said:


> Sounds like some one should have put the items in a locked trunk instead of leaving in plain sight.


True, though if there is a pattern of thieves following customers this won't make much difference. And it isn't feasible with all types of vehicle.

Still, it would seem to be common sense to assume that walking out of the Apple store toting a boxed computer could make you a target to be followed. So on that score, I don't think Apple has a duty to warn each and every customer.

But once you report the theft to Apple, that computer's s/n should be flagged and the police notified if/when the computer is brought in for service, or otherwise identified to Apple (via online services etc.). I don't think that's too much to ask at all.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Mopar said:


> Sounds like some one should have put the items in a locked trunk instead of leaving in plain sight.


What most likely happened was that the he was observed leaving the mall or even leaving the Apple store with the items and brought to his car and then followed as he left the mall. The article reports that it was a hatchback. My car too is a hatchback, I don't have a trunk to lock the items.


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## chimo (Jun 9, 2008)

Interesting,... a lawyer, blissfully unaware of the potential for crime.

What happened to people taking responsibility for their actions (or inactions)?


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## johnnydee (Feb 10, 2004)

I think he should sue the convenience store for not warning him about the potential crimes committed in the area and the car manufacturer for allowing him to purchase a vehicle that could so easily be broken into as well!
Just trying to keep him busy!
lol


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## psxp (May 23, 2006)

iMatt said:


> But once you report the theft to Apple, that computer's s/n should be flagged and the police notified if/when the computer is brought in for service, or otherwise identified to Apple (via online services etc.). I don't think that's too much to ask at all.


this part is the disappointing thing. You would think they would flag it as such. Same with Cell companies. If you report a phone stolen they can block the phone via the IMEI code.. but they dont...


also, here is apple's KB article on stolen / lost items: 

Reporting a lost or stolen Apple product


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## keebler27 (Jan 5, 2007)

Wow.

I can blame Apple for servicing the mbp after he called to say it was stolen. That's just plain wrong.

But to condone him suing apple for failing to tell him to use his common sense - the same common sense he should use following shopping experiences from ANY store - is just BS. What an idiot on that part. Honestly, how can you buy something expensive and not protect it? Heck, I would have TAKEN it with me to the next store or place. I've done that before.

Sure, there may be gangs or groups following Apple stores, but i bet those same 'groups' follow anyone from any store. This happens all the time - cars being broke into and just shopped material being stolen.

His CC company would have insured the purchase (if he used a CC).

Again, I would be more than steamed about the service issue. yikes. Let's hope Apple isn't getting too big for their britches and that they can handle all of their new customers properly.

Cheers,
Keebler


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

He shouldn't receive any compensation from Apple, though I completely agree that they should be flagging stolen items and contacting the authorities when people bring in stolen goods for service.

In regards to the hatchback, etc.: I have two cars. One is a Passt that has a very solid trunk and lockable fold-down back seats. I am still weary of leaving things in that trunk, even though it would be a quite a feat for someone to open it. 

My Santa Fe is just like most SUV's where the trunk it open to the back seat. I never leave anything of value in the vehicle. When I first got each of my MBPs in the past two years, I didn't have a case or bag with me at the time, so I carted the computer in the box with me to a few different stores, and even the doctor's office once. The box has a handle, it wasn't a big deal.

I feel bad for the guy, but leaving anything of value in your vehicle, especially a hatchback is a bad idea, no matter where you live.


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## Dadi_oh (Nov 9, 2010)

Another example of a litigation happy climate. It costs us all...

He should be forced to pay Apple's legal costs when it gets thrown out by the judge who wields common sense....


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Dadi_oh said:


> He should be forced to pay Apple's legal costs when it gets thrown out by the judge who wields common sense....


The case has already been settled. He received a $2,300 store credit from Apple and his legal costs of $345. That's cheap legal costs, he must of known a cheap lawyer.


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

ehMax said:


> What do you think? Could Apple do more in warning customers about potential dangers of it's desirable products being stolen?


Sure, but then every other business merchant will have to do the same, like banks (money is desirable), grocery stores (food is desireable), Home depot (nails are desireable)... 



ehMax said:


> ...I don't have a trunk to lock the items.


Do you have an article of clothing that can cover said valuables? Can valuables be kept with you? My wallet hypothetically has $5,000 in cash and I could easily conceal it in the glove compartment, but I'd take it with me.

C'mon people! Be responsible for yourself.


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

ehMax said:


> The case has already been settled. He received a $2,300 store credit from Apple and his legal costs of $345.


WHAT!?
How is that possible? How does one prove it _wasn't_ stolen? Guess next time I'll buy an iMac, give it to a friend, then go back to Apple and claim it was stolen and have them give me an equivalent credit. XX)


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

Bjornbro said:


> WHAT!?
> How is that possible? How does one prove it _wasn't_ stolen? Guess next time I'll buy an iMac, give it to a friend, then go back to Apple and claim it was stolen and have them give me an equivalent credit. XX)


Well you would have to file a police report, go I dare you. Then the iMac you claimed as stolen well it may just be tracked back to you and your friend and/or the person you sold it to.

Crime does not pay in the end. karma is a bitch


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

This is B.S. Apple has no culpability or responsibility for the security of their products once sold. You can get mugged outside of Tiffany and it remains the same - it's a crime by criminals.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

They could have just used Find My iPhone or Find My Mac.


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

Joker Eh said:


> Then the iMac you claimed as stolen well it may just be tracked back to you and your friend and/or the person you sold it to.


Yes, but:



psxp said:


> You would think they would flag it as such. Same with Cell companies. If you report a phone stolen they can block the phone via the IMEI code.. *but they dont...*


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

Joker Eh said:


> They could have just used Find My iPhone or Find My Mac.


_He didn't have a chance to set it up yet. He just bought it_


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

Bjornbro said:


> WHAT!?
> How is that possible? How does one prove it _wasn't_ stolen? Guess next time *I'll buy an iMac, give it to a friend, then go back to Apple and claim it was stolen and have them give me an equivalent credit*. XX)


Is that the life you want to lead? To be a criminal? I don't think you do and I don't even know you. Like I said Karma is a bitch. What goes around comes around.


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

What about the Karma from getting a company to pay you for being careless with your belongings and tying up the court system with a frivolous suit?

I could see if he went through his insurance, but suing Apple? It's completely asinine.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

okcomputer said:


> What about the Karma from getting a company to pay you for being careless with your belongings and tying up the court system with a frivolous suit?
> 
> I could see if he went through his insurance, but suing Apple? It's completely asinine.


Like I said.... Karma...

And he would have went through the small claims court and it does not require a lawyer and if you put in a claim through small claims court against a corporation 9.9 times out of 10 they will settle with you. It would cost more to pay a lawyer to go down to court and sit there and wait his turn.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

He is a lawyer and your ratio of settlements is reversed.




Joker Eh said:


> Like I said.... Karma...
> 
> And he would have went through the small claims court and it does not require a lawyer and if you put in a claim through small claims court against a corporation 9.9 times out of 10 they will settle with you. It would cost more to pay a lawyer to go down to court and sit there and wait his turn.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

At least he didn't get punitive damages.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

HowEver said:


> He is a lawyer and your ratio of settlements is reversed.


Doesn't mean he didn't do it through small claims.

And I have personally sued corporations in small claims and it never got to trial even though they were adamant that in telling me to go to court and they wouldn't give me the money back.


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

Joker Eh said:


> Is that the life you want to lead? To be a criminal? I don't think you do...


With a handle like "Joker Eh" I'm baffled that you didn't catch the sarcastic tone of my posts (even with the smilie " XX) ").


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

Bjornbro said:


> With a handle like "Joker Eh" I'm baffled that you didn't catch the sarcastic tone of my posts (even with the smilie " XX) ").


Didn't know there was tone with text and didn't know this XX) meant this


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

this is asinine


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

broad said:


> this is asinine


You stole my word! Haha.


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

Anyone stupid enough to leave a new laptop in a car, deserves to have it stolen.

Why should Apple track stolen Apple computers? Does Sony or Toshiba track stolen TVs or Blu-ray players? I have no idea why people think Apple should track this stuff. They track the computers warantee info as they may have to service it and need to know if it's in warantee and that's it. That's all the info they need to service it.


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


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## JCCanuck (Apr 17, 2005)

chimo said:


> Interesting,... a lawyer, blissfully unaware of the potential for crime.
> 
> What happened to people taking responsibility for their actions (or inactions)?


I totally agree! Sounds like the lawyer has time on his hands and bills to pay.
With Apple at the top of the world now, everyone wants to cash in on this company.


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

MazterCBlazter said:


> If any item comes into the retailers store under warranty they should be required by law to see if it is listed as stolen.


Yes, lets have more government in private business affairs. Government registration of the 100s of millions of Apple products shouldn't run the tax payer more than two million dollars...


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

MazterCBlazter said:


> Words of someone that would knowingly buy stolen property to save a few bucks


Nice, you resort to calling people thieves! I don't remember calling you names or questioning your morality!

I think you owe me an apology.



MazterCBlazter said:


> Those things have serial numbers. If any item comes into the retailers store under warranty they should be required by law to see if it is listed as stolen. If it is listed as stolen they should require id and contact info. If it is listed hot the information forwarded to police.
> 
> Pawn shops have to check serial numbers on what they pawn, buy, and sell. No good reason for retailers and manufacturers not to protect their customers. It can easily be made much more difficult for criminals to conduct their business.


Everything has serial #'s. 

Retailers aren't pawnshops! Retailers and companies aren't police! Pawnshops have security measures and occasionally a bouncer for reasons. Police are there for reporting stolen items to.

If you really want to secure and Safeguard a laptop there is hardware and software for that.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

MazterCBlazter said:


> DUH.
> 
> A registered list of 100s of millions of reported stolen Apple products? You really think that many get reported every year?
> 
> Police keep their lists of stolen product serial numbers. A little cooperation with police and business easy to set up if the will is there. Seems to be lacking.


Why are we picking on Apple products. They are no more important than my Sony TV, or my Panasonic microwave! If you are going to do it for one product, why not all?

Because it's ridiculous, costly and Not their job.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

Kosh said:


> Anyone stupid enough to leave a new laptop in a car, deserves to have it stolen.
> 
> Why should Apple track stolen Apple computers? Does Sony or Toshiba track stolen TVs or Blu-ray players? I have no idea why people think Apple should track this stuff. They track the computers warantee info as they may have to service it and need to know if it's in warantee and that's it. That's all the info they need to service it.


Agree with you 100%.

We have gone through that discussion before and there was also a ery clear and logical position on that by Apple.

I remember part of the issue was how does Apple know that a product is really stolen and wasn't sold to someone and then reported stolen by the seller.
The whole thing is a police issue - period.


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## Harvey (Oct 9, 2005)

As a 'Premium' product Apple, I think _as a courtesy to it's customers_ should have a database of stolen items. With a police report number, Apple could refer the incident to the police, and email the registered owner. 

Let's face it, iPods especially are hot items for theft, & it would enhance Apple's rep to be more proactive in this regard. 


I don't think Apple's bottom line would notice the added expense.


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

krs said:


> Agree with you 100%.
> 
> We have gone through that discussion before and there was also a ery clear and logical position on that by Apple.
> 
> ...


That's easy: if you want any company to keep a lookout for your stolen goods, provide a police report or forget it. 

As for the "why pick on Apple" question... I would want other manufacturers of high-value items to be aware of confirmed-stolen goods, and call the cops if or when they're brought in for service.

In this day and age is it really so farfetched to think police and manufacturers could share a little info on stolen goods?

As it stands, just about any theft of personal property is almost certain to go unpunished. A perfectly feasible method of putting a dent in that is staring us in the face, but, bah, let's just blame the victim, it's much easier. 

And a side note about false theft reports: if you're a buyer and have any doubts whatsoever about the seller's honesty, use a payment method that leaves a trace (e-transfer, cheque, etc.).


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

Kosh said:


> Why are we picking on Apple products. They are no more important than my Sony TV, or my Panasonic microwave! If you are going to do it for one product, why not all?


How likely is someone to bring in a Sony TV or Panasonic microwave oven for service that the companies need to keep track of the owners and serial numbers in a way that's easily checked at the store? 

Apple already does this, so for Apple, it's relatively simple to flag something as "reported stolen" and check into the situation further. For other companies, this would be much more difficult, but not impossible or without any other value. (They can use the 'stolen goods tracker' as a means for collecting personal information about you for marketing purposes.)

Sure, there will be abuse, but that's not an unsolveable problem. 

Is it's Apple's responsibility to do this? No. But it would sure be good customer service if they did.


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

krs said:


> I remember part of the issue was how does Apple know that a product is really stolen and wasn't sold to someone and then reported stolen by the seller.
> The whole thing is a police issue - period.


Exactly. Do you want to get into the middle of a divorce case? Where the husband "steals" the computer and the wife reports it stolen?

It's best that the law is left to those that know how to enforce it and CAN enforce it, and that's the police.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

MazterCBlazter said:


> Any one that blames any victims of crime, and calls them stupid, is not even close to deserving any apology.


Anyone that doesn't take care of their belongings and isn't responsible, doesn't deserve sympathy. 

What he did is equal to leaving his car unlocked and the keys in the ignition. 

He doesn't deserve any sympathy. 

He's just trying to get a free ride (free money or a free laptop).

You DON'T leave a laptop (never mind a BRAND NEW one) in your car unattended. We tell all our employees that and we don't even use Apple products.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

Sonal said:


> How likely is someone to bring in a Sony TV or Panasonic microwave oven for service that the companies need to keep track of the owners and serial numbers in a way that's easily checked at the store?


SEARS does it on ALL appliances. FUTURESHOP and Toshiba (computers, TVs, VCRs) do it. Microsoft does it with their Xbox 360. Any warranteed product you send a warrantee letter into the company or register online, does it.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

The police provide you with a report. It doesn't prove anything has been stolen, and they won't go looking for anything.

Nothing prevents you from reporting to Apple, with a police report, that an item has been stolen when it hasn't been.

That item you bought from Craigslist or the classifieds? Wait for it to be reported as stolen. If Apple was running a killswitch on all such items, forums like this would explode.

I've had an iPhone stolen. Rogers killed the service on it, as did Apple. It will never be used as a phone again. They did this at my word. That's about all you're going to get.


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

Kosh said:


> What he did is equal to leaving his car unlocked and the keys in the ignition.


As I understand it, he left it in a locked car and went into the corner store. Someone broke the window to get at it.

That's very different IMO. The equivalent of leaving an unlocked car + keys would be more like leaving your computer sitting unattended on a table at the library. Now that's a very stupid thing some people actually do. 

But it's sad when you can leave a store with a purchase, be followed, have your car broken into, and be considered a greedy idiot for your troubles. 

If he really was followed then it wouldn't have made much if any difference if he'd left the item in view or not; the criminal knew it was there.


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## JCCanuck (Apr 17, 2005)

*It's just sad!*

That in these times when you lose or misplace an item esp. a valuable one that it's considered absolutely stolen and gone for good. Maybe 20 or 30 years ago you had hope of getting something back which has happened a lot to me. Oh well, nostalgic I guess.


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

Kosh said:


> SEARS does it on ALL appliances. FUTURESHOP and Toshiba (computers, TVs, VCRs) do it. Microsoft does it with their Xbox 360. Any warranteed product you send a warrantee letter into the company or register online, does it.


Ah, see, I don't go in for the warranty on anything except my laptop. 

If my TV breaks, it's usually not worth bringing it in for repair. But not so with my laptop. 

More to the point, though, if my desktop PC breaks there's a ton of places I can bring it to for repair. My Mac breaks, I bring it to an Apple-Authorized Repair Place.

This doesn't have to be a some kind of a draconian system--they could make it a benefit of AppleCare. If a serial number comes up as 'stolen' and it's under AppleCare, make a call to the original purchaser or the owner as designated under AppleCare. (Why else go through the trouble of transferring owners under AppleCare?) 

If it's not under AppleCare, you're SOL.

Other manufacturers could use that as a value-add in their own warranty programs.


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

HowEver said:


> The police provide you with a report. It doesn't prove anything has been stolen, and they won't go looking for anything.
> 
> Nothing prevents you from reporting to Apple, with a police report, that an item has been stolen when it hasn't been.


Nothing prevents you from doing that... except the need to tell a whopper to the police. You will stop a fair number of dishonest people right there. There is no way to stop every dishonest person, but making them come into contact with the police as part of their scam will make it less attractive.

And of course the police don't go looking for anything, because the chances of finding anything are virtually nil. Because there's no cooperation between police and companies like, say, Apple.



HowEver said:


> That item you bought from Craigslist or the classifieds? Wait for it to be reported as stolen. If Apple was running a killswitch on all such items, forums like this would explode.


So basically, the argument against companies keeping lists of allegedly stolen goods is that if they did, scammers would sell second-hand gear, report it stolen, then get the money and/or the gear back by reporting the s/n to Apple. As opposed to, say, calling the cops and falsely accusing the hapless mark of theft, which they could do right now.

Doesn't that strike you as a remarkably stupid, high-risk, ineffective and laborious way to make a dishonest buck? 

And it's all the more farfetched if the system is based on items being brought in for service, as opposed to being used for iTunes or what have you. Because if it hinges on a future service call, the scam is going to fail outright a huge percentage of the time.



HowEver said:


> I've had an iPhone stolen. Rogers killed the service on it, as did Apple. It will never be used as a phone again. They did this at my word. That's about all you're going to get.


That sounds like more than what anyone is actually suggesting, so I'm not sure what your point really is.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

Sonal said:


> Ah, see, I don't go in for the warranty on anything except my laptop.
> 
> If my TV breaks, it's usually not worth bringing it in for repair. But not so with my laptop.


When you pay over $3200 for a new TV and it breaks within the warrantee period, it's worth bringing it in to be fixed for free. I haven't had a problem with it since (knock on wood).

Same thing with my Xbox 360. When it got the RROD, I just phoned Microsoft, and they checked the warrantee, and I sent me a replacement one back. Now I had to to send the replacement back for a second replacement, but eventually I got a replaced one that worked.


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## greydoggie (Apr 21, 2009)

What's stupider then him suing apple for this is that they paid out!! Common sense would tell you if you just bought over 2 grand of computer stuff that you wouldn't leave it unattended in your car for a pit stop on your way home. Drive home and then go back out. He should have sued the convenience store too for his car not being safe while it was parked there or for them not having video cameras to catch the person who did it. At least he went after a reasonable amount and not a small fortune for damaged feelings or any of that other BS.
Apple uses the serial number when something is brought in for servicing so it should be pretty easy for them to flag items that have been reported as stolen.


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

Bjornbro said:


> WHAT!?
> How is that possible? How does one prove it _wasn't_ stolen? Guess next time I'll buy an iMac, give it to a friend, then go back to Apple and claim it was stolen and have them give me an equivalent credit. XX)





gmark2000 said:


> This is B.S. Apple has no culpability or responsibility for the security of their products once sold. You can get mugged outside of Tiffany and it remains the same - it's a crime by criminals.


Culpability or no culpability what would it cost in terms of remedy vs the cost of continually being kicked and having your good name dragged through the mud.

The remedy of new Apple products cost Apple how much?

The cost of legal expense may actually amounted to a larger cost to Apple than the remedy offered. Let alone the cost to reputation and brand.

I am sure the settlement made sure to say that Apple is not responsible for anything past, present or future.

As result of the settlement:

how many citizens here have higher regard for Apple now?;

How many citizens here feel anger or animosity towards Apple?

Did Apple win or lose in your opinion?


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

iMatt said:


> But it's sad when you can leave a store with a purchase, be followed, have your car broken into, and be considered a greedy idiot for your troubles.


Um, you forgot to include "leave items in a car unattended and then sue the company you purchased the items from." 

That's the greedy part. 



> If he really was followed then it wouldn't have made much if any difference if he'd left the item in view or not; the criminal knew it was there.


Sure, but if the items were locked in a trunk, the crooks might not have been able to get at them. He also could have easily brought the laptop into the store with him. The box has a damn handle.

Another way to look at it: what if the criminal had followed him home? Nothing stopping any crook from watching any store and following those people home, then breaking into the house and stealing the item. 

Would you still sue Apple? Or would you put in an insurance claim? If you sue the company you purchased from, that opens the floodgates for people to sue any company after they have something stolen. It's stupid.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

greydoggie said:


> What's stupider then him suing apple for this is that they paid out!! Common sense would tell you if you just bought over 2 grand of computer stuff that you wouldn't leave it unattended in your car for a pit stop on your way home. Drive home and then go back out. He should have sued the convenience store too for his car not being safe while it was parked there or for them not having video cameras to catch the person who did it. At least he went after a reasonable amount and not a small fortune for damaged feelings or any of that other BS.
> Apple uses the serial number when something is brought in for servicing so it should be pretty easy for them to flag items that have been reported as stolen.



Probably the reason that Apple did pay is the amount requested was less than the legal fees to fight it.

Gets me to thinking though. Remembering the clay iPads scam over in BC, it would be a great scam to buy something pay someone a couple of hundred to rip it off, then sue the manufacturer. Ultimately recoup the purchase price and then some, and probably get the computer back as well. I am not intending implying this is what happened. Just pointing out the scam possibilities.


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

Well, yes, an insurance claim appears more sensible, even in the car scenario. And I suppose there are good legal reasons for companies to leave customers completely on their own once they walk out the door -- even though I can see why the guy felt wronged (known pattern of thefts, no warning; serviced stolen machine despite having been informed).

Still, I would hardly call a man greedy if he simply sued for a replacement rather than piling on all kinds of bogus claims to squeeze out some outrageous sum.

That said, I still don't see anything unreasonable about the idea of companies such as Apple (but not only Apple) flagging stolen goods in their warranty databases.

At worst, it would serve as a deterrent to scams and insurance fraud. Right now, you can sell your MBP to a stranger then concoct a "theft" story for the police and insurance company, secure in the knowledge that there's effectively no chance of the "stolen" property resurfacing and getting you in trouble.


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## pricha00 (Mar 13, 2010)

As a person who sees BS claims like this everyday for a major retailer I can tell you that if this went to court Apple would have requested legal costs for sure. I know reputation is important but where does the duty of care end, at the gravesite. I think people are somehow under the impression that any incident can always be someone else's fault and not their own. The world is not perfect and unfortunate incidents happen, chalk it up to bad luck and lets keep this crap out of the legal system. Like I always say " DENIAL is not just a river in Egypt ". A claim such as this would have lasted no more than 5 minutes on my desk!!!!

Pat


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## absolutetotalgeek (Sep 18, 2005)

I love the argument that '_leaving a new laptop in the car is asking to have it stolen_', so am I to leave the new Jag I bought locked in the garage so it won't get stolen? Morons, give your heads a shake...  I mean the guys sounds like a bit of a pod, but still, no one 'deserves' to have something they just paid a lot of money for stolen. ..I.,

As for Apple 'doing' something about it, well they most definitely should be watching out for and setting up some type of program to see if in fact their stores are being used as a setup and selection point for targeting customers who make large purchases. They have a legal responsibility to do so. If their stores are being used in this way, they can be and should be held legally liable both civilly and criminally. Although one would think that someone casing customers would be smart enough to do so from outside the store, I'm not sure you could mill around an Apple Store for very long without buying something 'watching' what is going on as far as people paying for products. 

If you steal my Leica, good luck getting it serviced. Apple likes to think of it's brand as being 'special', well act like it. Flagging products as stolen is just common sense, and would make sense for a company wanting to keep customers and their loyalty, but then again we're talking about Mac users here, doesn't really matter what Apple does, we'll just eat it up and buy their ****.... :lmao:


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## serenitynow (Feb 4, 2012)

Apple isn't responsible for anyone after they leave the store, they're only responsible for their products. So if this lawyer didn't go to his car but instead went to the Yorkdale public bathrooms and was held/beaten up for his Mac, Apple is responsible? Apple is correct... they cannot warn each individual customer about their safety when it comes to being targeted by potential thieves. 

What's next, BMW is responsible for their cars being stolen, Canon is on the hook for their cameras being taken, Canada Goose should pay for a thief stealing one of their jackets?

This lawyer sounds like an idiot for trying to assume Apple is somehow responsible for him being ripped off. I don't know how many people have been to Yorkdale Mall but as nice and fancy as it is, it's crawling with little punks and shady characters around it, especially near the parking garages. 

Sue Yorkdale Mall but not Apple.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Most of these arguments ignore that the lawyer suing Apple WON.


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## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

HowEver said:


> Most of these arguments ignore that the lawyer suing Apple WON.


Except he didn't. Apple settled out of court.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

John Clay said:


> Except he didn't. Apple settled out of court.


Which makes one wonder what REALLY happened.

On the surface it sounds as if Apple couldn't possibly have lost - in fact, if the case was as described I would have expected the judge to throw it out before it even comes to a trial.


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## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

krs said:


> Which makes one wonder what REALLY happened.
> 
> On the surface it sounds as if Apple couldn't possibly have lost - in fact, if the case was as described I would have expected the judge to throw it out before it even comes to a trial.


Settling would likely be cheaper than taking the PR hit.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

When I read the original article again, the lady who had her iPhone stoled out of her hand should have bought this cell phone instead - see very end.

Sumsing Turbo 3000 English Version - YouTube

As to the lawyer - I don't see how this could have become a PR issue - Apple and others who do this just leave themselves wide open for someone else to try the same bs.


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## absolutetotalgeek (Sep 18, 2005)

> Settling would likely be cheaper than taking the PR hit.


Since when does Apple care about PR hits? I mean...rly? That's just hilarious.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

How is that not a win for the lawyer?



John Clay said:


> Except he didn't. Apple settled out of court.


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## serenitynow (Feb 4, 2012)

The article says the lawyer was given a $2300 credit for the Mac store. It doesn't say how they arrived at that settlement though. It could be stemming just from the fact that Apple serviced the mac after it was stolen, not for anything else. As well, notice his legal fees were only $345. He got his money back and less than one hour of his time to file this lawsuit. However, when you subtract the fees for filing a lawsuit (minimum $175 for court fees in Ontario just to file plus another $50 or so to serve Apple), he basically got his money back for the computer.

So, in essence, he got compensated for Apple not doing anything about servicing his stolen macbook, that's it. He didn't really win but he didn't lose either. Actually, he kinda did lose when you figure he had his back window smashed out, which he would most likely pay the deductible for through his insurance plus the fact I guarantee it took more than one hour of his time to file this suit (as I don't know of any lawyers here in Toronto who charge less than $375 an hour for their time).

Now that I read the article over again, I have to agree that he should have been compensated for this in full. Apple needs to seize stolen laptops right off the bat, at least notifying the original owners or the police when they come across something that's potentially been stolen.


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## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

serenitynow said:


> Now that I read the article over again, I have to agree that he should have been compensated for this in full. Apple needs to seize stolen laptops right off the bat, at least notifying the original owners or the police when they come across something that's potentially been stolen.


Why?

Apple is not a law enforcement agency. They have no authority to seize a damn thing, regardless of it's history. Furthermore, seizing stolen property, or refusing to service it because it's stolen, puts Apple employees and other customers at risk from violent criminals.

Aside from being illegal, I'm fairly certain that Apple's insurer would nix the idea.

The most Apple could do would be to accept the computer for repair, and contact the authorities instead of actually repairing it. With millions of devices sold, managing the stolen/not stolen status of a device is rather daunting.


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## serenitynow (Feb 4, 2012)

No, they don't have the legal authority to do it but there should be the moral and ethical authority to do it.

My dog was microchipped when we first got him. The practice, with most reputable or respected vets is to now scan the dog first before even looking at them, just to see if the dog was ever reported missing or stolen. There was a dog here in Toronto who was stolen when he was tied outside of a shop and the owner got him back because the thieves took the dog to a vet to get him checked out (goodness knows why but it worked out for the owner).

So if you can do it for a dog, why not an Apple product like an iphone or computer?


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

You can kind of chip your computer:

preyproject.com

For a few dollars (okay, $5 for up to 3 devices). A bargain.


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## BillyPrefect (Jun 5, 2011)

This seems ridiculous on the surface. Except that Apple serviced it AFTER it was reported stolen... I am willing to bet that this is where Apple Canada said "whoops, our bad, here's a new laptop". But in all honesty, really, if you go to any store to purchase any product, someone somewhere also wants this product, they sell it so more than one person must want it, is any store liable for any product that sells as far as it getting stolen??? That being said, MAC addresses are unique, always are. If it's a MBP then there are two unique MAC addresses, plus the serial number, and I have no idea about Bluetooth, but again I think they are also unique. The system ought to be trackable to some extent, no matter what. I would also like to think that there is a new policy in place as far as Geniuses are concerned as to checking the serial number before doing any work.


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