# Fido and Rogers unlimited data fraud



## Maverick (Sep 18, 2007)

I signed up for Fido's top value pack, at that point the $18 one, which included 4 months of unlimited data. Actually, I was pretty happy with that and it performed as promised... I never was charged (so far, at least) any overages or data charges even though I had 30MB on my last bill. But, now my 4 months unlimited data is running out so I called to switch to the new $20 value pack that includes "unlimited surfing". During the process, the rep casually dropped that, "oh, just so you know, this plan includes unlimited surfing, not unlimited data." What?!? I replied that, so far as I'm aware, surfing the internet is an activity that involves data being sent to you from the internet... therefore, "unlimited data" and "unlimited surfing" are exactly the same thing. "Oh no," he says, "'unlimited surfing' only applies to our internal fido portal".

This is a complete fraud. Clearly they are purposely attempting to mislead people. Nobody would ever be expected to be familiar with the fido definition of "data" versus "surfing". Would it really be that difficult for them to say the package includes "unlimited Fido portal surfing" on their promotional material? At least people would have some chance of understanding that it is LIMITED. Even the fine print, which I've only seen after the fact, is misleading... it states it "includes unlimited mobile surfing on your handset", which still sounds exactly like its describing "unlimited data", but its not.

I have been a non-stop mobile phone subscriber since 1988 (Rogers and Fido), I've paid these companies literally thousands of dollars every year, and this complete contempt for their customers REALLY pisses me off. I can only imagine how many consumers they've snared with this trap and forced them to pay outrageous overages for their data usage. I really don't want anything to do with a company so blatantly and intentionally deceitful.


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## iJohnHenry (Mar 29, 2008)

Bait and Switch is alive and well in the Great White North.

And the Feds look the other way, as long as their bottom-line, tax wise, doesn't take a hit.


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## cap10subtext (Oct 13, 2005)

Maverick said:


> I signed up for Fido's top value pack, at that point the $18 one, which included 4 months of unlimited data. Actually, I was pretty happy with that and it performed as promised... I never was charged (so far, at least) any overages or data charges even though I had 30MB on my last bill. But, now my 4 months unlimited data is running out so I called to switch to the new $20 value pack that includes "unlimited surfing". During the process, the rep casually dropped that, "oh, just so you know, this plan includes unlimited surfing, not unlimited data." What?!? I replied that, so far as I'm aware, surfing the internet is an activity that involves data being sent to you from the internet... therefore, "unlimited data" and "unlimited surfing" are exactly the same thing. "Oh no," he says, "'unlimited surfing' only applies to our internal fido portal".
> 
> This is a complete fraud. Clearly they are purposely attempting to mislead people. Nobody would ever be expected to be familiar with the fido definition of "data" versus "surfing". Would it really be that difficult for them to say the package includes "unlimited Fido portal surfing" on their promotional material? At least people would have some chance of understanding that it is LIMITED. Even the fine print, which I've only seen after the fact, is misleading... it states it "includes unlimited mobile surfing on your handset", which still sounds exactly like its describing "unlimited data", but its not.
> 
> I have been a non-stop mobile phone subscriber since 1988 (Rogers and Fido), I've paid these companies literally thousands of dollars every year, and this complete contempt for their customers REALLY pisses me off. I can only imagine how many consumers they've snared with this trap and forced them to pay outrageous overages for their data usage. I really don't want anything to do with a company so blatantly and intentionally deceitful.


You know I think you'd actually have a shot at reporting this:

http://www.adstandards.com

It sounds more than just a little misleading.


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## a7mc (Dec 30, 2002)

cap10subtext said:


> You know I think you'd actually have a shot at reporting this:
> 
> http://www.adstandards.com
> 
> It sounds more than just a little misleading.


It isn't misleading at all. The OP negelcted to mention that the "fine print" is written right in the centre of the page, and is quite easily visible:

"The Unlimited surfing on your Fido option includes unlimited mobile surfing on your handset and is only available on selected handsets only (non-Fido certified handsets, Windows Mobile devices and PC cards are not eligible). Data usage incurred on ineligible handsets and devices, incurred while tethering (using a handset or device as a wireless modem or laptop) or incurred using non-Fido (third party) applications downloaded to your handset will be subject to a pay-per-use charge of 5¢ per KB. Option applies within Canada only. While roaming outside Canada, data transmission charge of 5¢ per KB apply, except in the U.S. where data transmission charges of 1¢ per KB apply."

If you own a real Fido (or Rogers) phone, it comes with their special browser that is programmed for this "unlimited" surfing. An iPhone is NOT an official Fido or Rogers phone, therefore it does not qualify. Does it suck? Sure. Is it misleading? Not so much.

A7


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

Rogers has board rooms of lawyers. They are not committing fraud. They tread a thin line on it though. Come on man, unlimited data for 20 bucks. Thats better than Americans can get.


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## cap10subtext (Oct 13, 2005)

a7mc said:


> It isn't misleading at all. The OP negelcted to mention that the "fine print" is written right in the centre of the page, and is quite easily visible:


So people just don't read the contracts. Good to know. That falls into the category of gross negligence on the part of the consumer then.


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## iJohnHenry (Mar 29, 2008)

Caveat emptor is not an old saying, without reason. 

"That empty lot on the corner, next to the one you picked out?? That's for a future parkette (gas station/fire hall/plaza). beejacon


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## adagio (Aug 23, 2002)

Adrian. said:


> Come on man, unlimited data for 20 bucks. Thats better than Americans can get.


No, Americans are paying $20 for unlimited data on their iPhone.

AT&T data rates from the Apple US store website. Click on "existing customer" rates to see the price charged for data.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Just get the $65-$100 tiered data plan. It's the best alternative right now.


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## ruffdeezy (Mar 17, 2008)

This is such old news.
Yes you are not suspossed to use the iPhone on it. However, not one single person has been charged since February for using their iPhone on this plan.


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

This has been discussed heavily since introduced. It isn't fraud, this thread makes it clear browsing is supposed to be done through Rogers WAP browser that comes on the phone. The fact nobody is charged data is that of pure luck and oversight by Rogers not beign able to distinguish between a Rogers phone or an unlocked non-Rogers phone.


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## Maverick (Sep 18, 2007)

Man, how many of you guys work for Rogers?!

The fraud is that I was never specifically told of these limitations and never was given an opportunity to reverse engineer what they really meant in their fine print, because my agreement was done completely over the phone. The fact that, as a consumer I should be expected to visit the website for every company I deal with and review (and further disect the true meaning) of the fine print for every product and/or service that I ever use is, quite frankly, absurd. 

Their advertising everywhere, and the reps themselves, say the plans include "unlimited data", "unlimited surfing", or "unlimited mobile surfing" and what they provide is not unlimited data, unlimited surfing, or unlimited mobile surfing. That is fraud.


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

How does that equate to fraud; you are interpreting "unlimited data" differently than they are. This is how advertising works. They say "Unlimited Data...when using the Rogers WAP browser". You read it as "Unlimited data for what ever I want to do; including tethering and whatnot".

Ford says they are the number 1 selling truck; their F-Series trucks have like 5 or 6 models (F150, F250, etc.) Chev can come out and say they are the number 1 selling truck because they sold more Chevy Silverado's (these will eventually die and be replace by Fords.) that any other model. They are both right, nobody is lying, they are simply playing with the words.

I agree it borders on falseness but they aren't doing anything wrong.

If you really wanted to read the contract, you can get it online, if you want to read it before "signing", then go into a store and ask to see it. You can't come on here an complain you never got to read the contract and understand it fully given the fact you signed up on the phone; I don't think Rogers called you and said that if you hung up the phone without buying a phone they were gonna send Tony the Shovel over to your house...


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Maverick said:


> Their advertising everywhere, and the reps themselves, say the plans include "unlimited data", "unlimited surfing", or "unlimited mobile surfing" and what they provide is not unlimited data, unlimited surfing, or unlimited mobile surfing. That is fraud.


If you really believe this, take it to court. Since you're 100% right and they are 100% wrong, you will win and be very rich.

Good luck with that.


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

This thread does demonstrate the need for reforms of the current systems that are in place. Legally, Rogers is right, since it is in the license contract. But morally, it is repugnant because by forcing a user to use a specialized browser - they are acting in collusion and are attempting, by other means, to build a monopolistic trust. If this was the US, a legal challenge would go a long way; but this is Canada, and as we know, the Government is on the take.

That is one aspect of Net Neutrality - that people should have the freedom to use whatever technology, established or emerging - without having some corporate make decisions for them. A browser is a personal choice, and visiting web sites should be up to the user, not some corporate who may or may not allow free access to sites depending upon the variables (ie. graft, cash payments, gratuities)...

As for the billing - they should either charge for all data transfer, whether it is FTP or web pages, within a specified cap. And this brings up one possible problem. What if a web site automatically downloads data to the user (say a Flash video file or something) - does the user have to pay for that data, even though they may or may not have wanted it in the first place? If they have to pay, then Rogers could score huge money by embedding Flash in their site and forcing their users to log onto the site (and thus paying for the non-web site data). And at the rate of 5 cents per kB, the average email would cost 30 cents to read - do they charge for spam???


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

I suppose that forms the question oh why a Rogers WAP browser must be used; do we know?


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

chas_m said:


> If you really believe this, take it to court. Since you're 100% right and they are 100% wrong, you will win and be very rich.
> 
> Good luck with that.




Who has more money?. Rogers or Maverick. Benefit of the doubt goes to Rogers. Somewhere and somehow Rogers has kept itself on the fine line of legal. A few years ago Rogers got sued for 20 million or so because of some sort of maintenance contract where the judge found Rogers guilty based on grammatical error in the contract. Rogers is the most anal company abouts it legality.

Besides, even if he did have a case, Rogers would keep it in litigation for years with all the money they have. Macerick would run out funds before Rogers would.


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## The Shadow (Oct 28, 2006)

Maverick said:


> The fact that, as a consumer I should be expected to visit the website for every company I deal with and review (and further disect the true meaning) of the fine print for every product and/or service that I ever use is, quite frankly, absurd.


Unfortunately, this is the exact reasoning that they will use to bitch slap you up, down and all around the courtroom with. The fine print is always a free pass for them; it should, however, be knowledge for you. It's always good to know EXACTLY what you are getting into.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

I don't work for Rogers.

You are expected to find out more about companies you deal with, and the specific terms of those dealings.

If you don't, it's your fault. There is no grey area.






Maverick said:


> Man, how many of you guys work for Rogers?!
> 
> The fraud is that I was never specifically told of these limitations and never was given an opportunity to reverse engineer what they really meant in their fine print, because my agreement was done completely over the phone. The fact that, as a consumer I should be expected to visit the website for every company I deal with and review (and further disect the true meaning) of the fine print for every product and/or service that I ever use is, quite frankly, absurd.
> 
> Their advertising everywhere, and the reps themselves, say the plans include "unlimited data", "unlimited surfing", or "unlimited mobile surfing" and what they provide is not unlimited data, unlimited surfing, or unlimited mobile surfing. That is fraud.


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## psycosis (Mar 29, 2005)

Maverick said:


> Man, how many of you guys work for Rogers?!
> 
> The fraud is that I was never specifically told of these limitations and never was given an opportunity to reverse engineer what they really meant in their fine print, because my agreement was done completely over the phone. The fact that, as a consumer I should be expected to visit the website for every company I deal with and review (and further disect the true meaning) of the fine print for every product and/or service that I ever use is, quite frankly, absurd.
> 
> Their advertising everywhere, and the reps themselves, say the plans include "unlimited data", "unlimited surfing", or "unlimited mobile surfing" and what they provide is not unlimited data, unlimited surfing, or unlimited mobile surfing. That is fraud.


Didn't you say at the start of the thread that you were made aware of the difference while talking to the rep on the phone. 

So I ask.. where is the fraud? They told you what you were getting.


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## Meleemark (Mar 3, 2007)

Caveat emptor.

_Right from the Rogers Site:

Important: Plan includes unlimited on-device mobile browsing using the Rogers Mobile Internet Browser only and is only available on select Rogers certified devices (PDAs such as Blackberry or Windows Mobile devices, PC cards and non-Rogers certified devices are not eligible). Data usage incurred on ineligible devices or while tethering (use of device as wireless modem) or while using applications is subject to pay-per-use charges of $15/MB for the first 5MB, $10/MB for next 5MB, $5/MB for next 10MB and $0.50/MB thereafter. Data usage incurred while using certain Rogers approved applications may be included in the plan. 36-month term commitment required for Rogers Vision bonus eligibility._


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## Garry (Jan 27, 2002)

Maverick said:


> I signed up for Fido's top value pack, at that point the $18 one, which included 4 months of unlimited data. Actually, I was pretty happy with that and it performed as promised... I never was charged (so far, at least) any overages or data charges even though I had 30MB on my last bill. But, now my 4 months unlimited data is running out so I called to switch to the new $20 value pack that includes "unlimited surfing".


With you so far..



Maverick said:


> process, the rep casually dropped that, "oh, just so you know, this plan includes unlimited surfing, not unlimited data." What?!? I replied that, so far as I'm aware, surfing the internet is an activity that involves data being sent to you from the internet... therefore, "unlimited data" and "unlimited surfing" are exactly the same thing. *Oh no," he says, "'unlimited surfing' only applies to our internal fido portal"*.


OK.. so they told you what the Terms were.



Maverick said:


> is a complete fraud. Clearly they are purposely attempting to mislead people.


I'm lost.. how did they mislead you? See the bold part above



Maverick said:


> Nobody would ever be expected to be familiar with the fido definition of "data" versus "surfing". Would it really be that difficult for them to say the package includes "unlimited Fido portal surfing" on their promotional material?


They do make a distinction.. as it's been pointed out in the thread.. Both Fido and Rogers explain it.

But.. Thanks for brining it to our attention


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