# Remembrance Day - Lest We Forget



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

With Remembrance Day coming up this week, I thought I might start a thread for members to put down their thoughts on what the day means to them and their families. To that end, I dug back in my files and resurrected a post I made last year on November 11th.

While it is a few days early, it does not change the intent of the original message. When I sat down at the keyboard about a year ago, it was magical. My thoughts poured out through my fingertips. It was not intentional nor planned, it just happened. Feelings and emotion, not an overworked brain ruled the keyboard.

I will be pleased if it touches some of you. I know someone, or something, reached out to me on that morning a year ago. I could not have done it without their help. Paix.

Remembrance Day

At 11:00 a.m. on Thursday November 11th, I shall physically stand before the cenotaph on St. Anne Street, here in St. Albert to take part in, and witness the Remembrance Day services.

My mind however, will be elsewhere. Part of the time it will have me in the Royal Canadian Legion burial plot in Swift Current, Saskatchewan, where I will stand before the graves of my father, Lt. F. J. W. Sinclair and my mother Pt. N. M. Sinclair and salute them. They both served in W.W.II where my father was wounded in action in France.

It will then take me to another family plot in the small town of Lafleche, Saskatchewan, where I was born. There too I will stand before the graves of my uncles Marvin, Donald, and Roy who also served overseas in W.W.II. And I will also stand before, and salute the graves of my two younger uncles who served in Korea. Uncle Benjamin, who I got to know later in life. And Uncle Stanley, who I didn't get to know, dead at 33 years of age.

I shall remember that I am here, never having to go to war, because they did so on my behalf. They, and many other citizens, of many other countries, in many other conflicts. I shall remember them all.

When the final sweet notes of The Last Post haunt the still morning air, I will shed no tear, for they would not expect me to do so. I will however, have a very large lump in my throat.










[ November 06, 2004, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: SINC ]


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sinc, an important thread. I shall go down to the War Memorial on Water Street here in St.John's. It is the least I can do to remember all those who served and "gave their last full measure of devotion" to enable me the right and opportunity to stand their and contemplate. Paix, mon ami.


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

Sinc, *thank you* for starting this thread.

I'm touched by your message as much this year, as I was last year. And I too would like to offer the same words as I did last year - not out of laziness or disrespect, but because I don't think I should say it any differently now than I did one year ago. 

_
My father was a WWII veteran who, luckily, returned home safe and sound. I remember asking him a few times when I was very young, the classic question: "what did you do during the war, daddy? Tell me some stories." He would never answer - and now as an adult I knew he couldn't. He died in 1972. 

I do know that my dad was in the medical corps, and served in France and Holland. His brother, who is still with us, served in France as a motorcycle dispatch driver. These two brothers began their service at the same time but as things go, they were off in different directions and quickly fell out of touch with each other. As I was told, they didn't see or hear from each other for about three years. Then one miserable evening, being off duty and in need of a drink or three, my father visited a local bar with his buddies - and who was already there but his brother, with his buddies. 

I wear my poppy with pride, in remembrance, and with a tear in my eye sometimes. I can only imagine what it must have been like for those two brothers to meet purely by chance on a dark and rainy night in the middle of WWII.
_


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## gwillikers (Jun 19, 2003)

A great big thanks, from this prairie boy, for sharing those wonderful messages. My father is buried in a soldiers plot in Regina. He was wounded in Germany near the end of the allied campaign. Although he passed long ago, his lesson remains with me. I have all his medals, his army gear, pictures, etc., which remain priceless to me.

I wear the poppy with great pride each and every year. 
Please know that you have many brothers & sisters, across this land, who also, will never forget.

Peace,

-Howie


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## vacuvox (Sep 5, 2003)

I am most moved when I hear stories of veterans united in friendship many years after opposing each other in battle. I can't imagine survivng what they went through. It is important to me each year to reflect on the horror of war, to pray we never experience it here or abroad and to honour those who fought and those who continue to fight on our behalf. I will see you at the Cenotaph.


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## agent4321 (Jun 25, 2004)

I too give thanks to the many men and women who served our country in past world wars. My grandfather in particular served in WW II under PPCLI (Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry) he was there during the Italian Campaign moving up from Sicily through Italy and was there when we liberated Holland.

I was just a wee lad when he passed away, so I wasn't able to ask him any war time stories. But I was told by my Grandmother that he was a high ranking Lieutenant and showed his troops to Prince Philip, which I hear is a fairly big thing back then. So that makes me proud.

I actual have his travel day bag from when he was in the war, it's my one thing I have of his. It's seen better days you can still see his name and rank painted on it.

I just recently watched the whole Band of Brothers series and that was amazing. It kinda gave me a small glimpse to what my grandfather went through and all those brave young men. Highly reccomended show to watch if you haven't seen it!

In closing I have to say thanks grandpa for serving your country and protecting our freedoms. I salute you. May you rest in peace.

Never forget.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

My grandfather served in WW1. he didn't die, but he was shot three (3) separate times and sent back to service all three times.

My grandfather served in WW2, he didn't pass away either. 

I guess I am lucky in that no one I am directly related to dies in either of these wars, but that doesn't mean that it's not an important day for me or my family. My cousin was deployed to Afghanistan last year, and Kosovo a couple years before that.

He didn't get wounded even, but it's still an interesting wake up call to find out someone you know/are related to/care about is in nothing but harms way.

And on a lighter note, I wish it was a manditory day off for everyone. I am tired of being scheduled to work on days when I could be doing better things, like visiting one of a few graveyards, or visiting with grandparents, or just watching war movies.


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## Pelao (Oct 2, 2003)

SINC: thanks for posting this again.

I am grateful every day for the freedom I experience. I feel a strong duty to make sure sacrifices of the past are not forgotten or wasted.

I also remember not only those who died, but those who were wounded. Also, those families that suffered irreparable emotional damage, and children who never knew soldier parents.

My daughter is 6. It is incredibly important that she understands her duty to remember and protect the legacy of those who have given.

We need to watch carefully lest our schools and institutions water down the importance of this in our culture. Knowledge of what happened in our past is crucial to managing our future.


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## iLabmAn (Jan 1, 2003)

A group of Grade 8 students at our school have a game that they call: Nazi. The aim of the game is to capture and humiliate anyone from a race other than their own. They also managed to attack some students from the Jewish faith.

Yeah. Dispicable.

The game was quickly aborted when the whistle was blown by some other kids and a parent apparently. I was completely appalled when I heard about this game and the students who propogated such hate.

Rumour has it that the students were acting out the video game called "D-Day" (??), pretending to portray Allied forces in their pursuit to capture and kill enemy forces.

...but the anti-semetic talk of the students as well as fact that they targeted students from a specific culture/religious group is nothing short of heinous.

I hope that the students involved will be dealt with severely.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

iLabmAn, I too am shocked. Being Jewish, as well as a Canadian, I am in awe at how students can play such a game. I have had two swastikas placed on my door at the university where I teach.

Here is an article from the CBC website here in NL.

Mental illness clears man of hate crime
WebPosted Nov 5 2004 07:59 AM NST

ST. JOHN'S — A St. John's man charged with a hate crime against the Jewish community has been found not criminally responsible for his actions.

Oral Vrba, previously known as Oral Crocker, smashed the windows at the Beth El Synagogue last April.

For the last two years, he has repeated voiced hatred for Jews.

In October 2002, he told the man unlocking the synagogue's doors he was going to murder him and finish what Adolf Hitler started.

During Vrba's trial, a psychiatrist testified Vrba is bipolar, and was delusional when he committed the crimes that led to the charge.

Provincial court judge David Orr ruled Vrba, 30, was not criminally responsible for the offences. Orr ordered Vrba to be remanded at the Waterford psychiatric hospital for further assessment.

Shari Ritter, who works with the Jewish human rights organization B'nai Brith, followed the trial closely.

"We would recommend not only some mental health treatment but also some anit-hate education as part of that treatment," Ritter says.

Ritter says the incidents caused alarm in the local Jewish community, especially with the man whom Vrba threatened to kill.

"He used to feel quite open … keeping the doors of the synagogue open, but now they're locked and everybody has to ring a bell to enter," she says.

Vrba has had 17 admissions – both voluntary and involuntary – to the Waterford hospital for treatment for mental illness over the last seven years.

A mental health review board will consider Vrba's case within the next 45 days, to determine whether he should be released and on what conditions.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"As our boat touched sand and the ramp went down, I became a visitor to Hell." 
Pvt. Charles Neighbor
29th Division
Omaha Beach


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"To one Mrs. Bixby of Boston

Dear Madam,

I have been shown in the files of the War Department a statement of the Adjutant General of Massachusetts that you are the mother of 5 sons who have died gloriously on the field of battle. I feel how weak and fruitless must be any words of mine that would attempt to beguile you from the grief of a loss so overwhelming. But I cannot reframe from tendering to you the consolation that may be found in the thanks of the Republic they died to save. I pray that our heavenly father may assuage the anguish of your bereavement and leave you only the cherished memory of the loved and lost and the solonm pride that must be yours to have laid down so costly a sacrifice upon the alter of freedom.

Yours very sincerely and respectfully,

Abraham Lincoln"


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

GENERATION TO GENERATION

Only through preserving our past can we guarantee a future where the lessons and legacy of D-Day will be remembered.

http://www.canada.com/national/features/dday/index.html

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=history/secondwar/normandy/dday
http://www.dday.org/ 
http://www.ddaymuseum.co.uk/


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## imactheknife (Aug 7, 2003)

In High school I had to write a play for our final assignment. I decided to write a vertical play (like CATS). If you don't understand what a vertical play is it is based on a central theme with seven parts interacting with the central theme. A horiziontal play is like a book or a regular movie. The play I wrote is based on World War 2 and is called Sorrow. The name Sorrow comes from 2 places. The first is the feelings people have about the losses they have had during this time. The second comes from Pink Floyds album "A momentary lapse of reason" The whole play has songs from this album playing throughout. The one scene I wrote this poem for and I find it fitting in Rememberence of the losses many had.

Father, where do I start?
where do I begin?
why did they take you father?
or any other kin?

Father were you a brave man?
for I never had a chance to know...
it is not your fault Father, you had no choice but to go,
a faint memory is all I recall
of a day you picked me up in your strong arms..
then the next day you were gone to fight for us all.

The person speaking is a teenage boy who lost his father in the war. He was just a tyke when his father was conscripted into the war hence not havng a choice but to go.

I thank whenever I can Veterens who left loved ones to fight the war and tell me about thier experiences and the freedom they brought to Canada and it's Allies. "Lest we forget"


Hope this post isn't too long or out of context in anyway..


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

imactheknife, what a creative production. This, in my opinion, is in part what many fought and died for in various wars -- your freedom to express your creativity in such a manner. Paix.


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## Pelao (Oct 2, 2003)

imactheknife,
Wonderful stuff, really wonderful. Thanks for sharing.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

An appropriate addition to the thread imactheknife.

Well done.

Lest We Forget


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

Remembrance day has a special meaning for me as my family comes from central Europe. They experienced both, the Nazi occupation and later the Soviet occupation. My father's father fought in WW1 and was a partisan (Czech resistance) during WW2. My mother' father fought in Italy with the Austro-Hungarian army during WW1 and was a city cop during WW2. My mother lost three of her uncles in WW2, one disappeared on the Russian front when he was snatched off the street and Shanghaied into the Hungarian army (he wasn't even Hungarian). My mother was working in a building that was bombed by the Americans and trapped in the basement. The only reason she wasn't killed, was because the second bomb that hit the building failed to explode. My uncle was drafted into the Slovak army and would have been forced to fight the Soviet onslaught, but luckily the Germans capitulated.

The horror continued after the Soviets liberated us, but that's another story.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

My grandmother's family arrived in Canada before World War I happened. She was an infant, and her brother Albin was only seven years old. But Albin didn't have much of a chance to become Canadian. He was sent back to the Europe from which the family emigrated, dying in France in 1918.

His also wasn't the only loss to war in our family. Three months before his death, Albin's brother Frank became he father of a baby boy - named Albin after his uncle. Call it prescience, call it irony, call it fate... but the baby Albin would grow up to become the second Albin Sumara to give his life for Canada in a World War.

For photos and a write-up, download this PDF or visit the website for the Sumara Family, celebrating 100 years in Canada this Christmas Eve.

M.


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

I have never known anyone involved with war. But it s not that I don't fully appreciate or respect what they did for their generation and future generations.

For this I say Thank You for our freedom.

As our veterans are becoming older and fewer, It is of vital importance that future generations never forget what these brave men and women did to preserve our freedom. when my son is old enough I will teach him the importance of this day. I pray that he never has to face what those we remember faced.

Lest we forget.

PosterBoy said:



> And on a lighter note, I wish it was a manditory day off for everyone. I am tired of being scheduled to work on days when I could be doing better things, like visiting one of a few graveyards, or visiting with grandparents, or just watching war movies.


I am surprised as well that we do not have a full day of remembrance. To me this is far more important than celebrating a dead Queen's birthday. I would gladly give up May 24 in order to honour our fallen soldiers.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

MP, both Remembrance Day and Victoria's Birthday are provincial holidays here in NL, with very little open on either day. May 24th means little to me, but Remembrance Day (aka Veterans Day in the US) has personal meaning for me.


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

May 24 has become an excuse to party for three days.

I spoke to a few of my younger employees asking them if they would rather have May 24 off or Nov 11 off. On all accounts May 24 was the most important. One employee mentioned that "I don't care about Nov 11. It means nothing to me'>

To which I replied "I suppose your freedom means nothing to you as well?"  

The only meaning May 24 has to me is a well deserved rest after a long winter. November 11 has much deeper meaning.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Remembrance Day is also a statutory holiday in Alberta, and so it should be.

Cheers


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## yardarm51 (Aug 26, 2004)

For those of you who wish to learn a little more about what went on in either of the World Wars, Korea, or more current actions please head over to 
The Memory Project 

This is an incredibly important project (to my mind anyway). The basic idea is to collect veterans recollections and then digitally record them so that future generations have a first hand resource to look back upon. John Keegan, Pierre Burton, Cornelius Ryan and all the great history authors have a place but nothing can be better than first had source material.

I have had the honour and privelege to call several veterans friends. During university I did an anthropology fieldwork project with members of Vancouver's Billy Bishop Legion in Kitsilano. I had been looking for an excuse to become a member for years but needed that final kick to do it. A very very good decision. I worked with the Air Crew association members who met there once a week or so. A better group of men you could not find. I remained a member of the Legion and attended council meetings. I was even asked to join the council (talk about an honour) but unfortuantely had to decline as I was headed to Japan in a month.

People talk about remembering. People forget these men and women are not gone yet. They still are here and they are waiting for you. The Legion is having a very rough time of it now. Memberships are in decline and the system is beginning to whither away. Used to be a time when people would pop into the local hall for a couple of brews. Not today. People forget most Legion Halls are in effect a pub (decently priced too). If you wish to talk to some of these great folk (they do want to talk to you) head on in. As some of my friends said "We may be a bit wrinkly but we aren't gone yet!"

Make a difference and let them know you care about what they did for us.

As for myself I unfortunately will not have the day to go to a local cenotaph. Tokyo doesn't have one. I will make the attempt to get to Hodogaya Cemetery though.
Hodogaya Cemetery


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Yardarm, I fully agree.

There are efforts to make November 11th a National Holiday. I am in two minds about this. I would far rather it be made a school day in which all schools are expected to conduct events that directly relate to the remembrance of the sacrifices made in their name, many years ago to the present day. Children are the key sector of society that need to be told of the lessons of history and how democracy is not something to take for granted. As the veterans disappear from our ranks, the direct connection with the horrors and gallantry of the world wars will be lost. Steven Spielberg realised this with the survivors of the concentration camps and began to video document the experiences of that horror by interviewing survivors - the result being the Shoah Foundation. There are efforts to do similar with our veterans as Yardarm points out. Such tools will prove incredibly important in the years to come.

The entire point of Remembrance Day is to remember the sacrifices of others in our name. Prevention of the fading of those memories by building a societal legacy requires positive and effective effort.

Lest we forget.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Jim, your point "Such tools will prove incredibly important in the years to come" is very true. It gives a fuller meaning and reality to the expression "Lest we forget".


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

Jim. An excellent post and thoughts.

Teaching our children about the significance of Remembrance Day is something that should taught our children, either in school or by parents.

This is the only that the importance of this day will be preserved.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Veteran's Day in the US takes on new meaning once again as a new legion of veterans serves overseas. Sadly, once again, more veterans will lie in peace in a cemetary somewhere in the US.  Soldiers marching out of darkness into darkness. When will they ever learn.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Members of the PPLI based in Edmonton got home this week from their 6 month peacekeeping mission in Afghanistan.

They could not have arrived at a better time.

Don't forget to make it to your local cenotaph if your job allows it tomorrow.

If you can't, never fear, many ehMacers will be there on your behalf.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

On a per capita basis, Newfoundland lost more soldiers than any other country during WWI. This is why there is always a big turnout at our St.John's War Memorial.


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## Peter Scharman (Jan 4, 2002)

My father served in WWII as a fireman, so he never saw combat action, but was witness to the reality of it all. Many fathers of friends seldom talk of the war for the memories it stirs. We know that everyone loses in a war.
My mother was a young woman living in Holland and endured bombings and Nazi occupation. Her mother suffered from deep depression from the whole ordeal and, after my mother emigrated as a war bride to Canada, she committed suicide.
The appreciation by the Dutch people for the Canadians who helped liberate them has never diminished over the years. We are their heros. Those who served, and especially those who died to liberate Europe, must never be forgotten. Remembrance day should be dedicated to teaching students about the history of our times and the significance of the events. The stories and lessons of the veterans should be told, “lest we forget”.


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

> The appreciation by the Dutch people for the Canadians who helped liberate them has never diminished over the years. We are their heros.


That was the general sentiment that I got from the people in Amsterdam when I visited back in '97.

They love Canadians, still loathe the Germans.

In fact, the Dutch often still insult Germans by saying "Why don't you steal my Grandmother's bicycle?" During the German occupation, the Germans punished the Dutch by taking away all of the bicycles, which was their main method of transportation.


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## agent4321 (Jun 25, 2004)

I have a pet peeve, and it involves people not wearing poppies the correct way. 

I saw one guy today on my way to work with his poppy on the right side of his jacket?  and another guy had a poppy pinned to his baseball cap!  

Most of the people I saw had it pinned to there jacket collars....last time I checked it should be pinned over your heart.

I just think it's disrespectful, if you're going to wear a poppy wear it correctly...its the least you can do.

Lest We Forget


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

While the "over the heart" placement of the poppy is preferrable, I would never take any one to task for wearing one on their collar or their hat or where ever else.

The important thning is that they wear one.

No vet I know ever took exception to a poppy in a collar or hat. Incidentally, they fall off very easily and the collar affords one place where they are more secure. Other use the collar because they wear a leather jacket and don't want the pin hole in the garment so noticeable.

There are many reasons people wear them in odd spots, but again I think the important thing is to wear one!

Cheers


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

There's an advert in the Globe and Mail today offering special poppy license plates to Ontario driver veterans (for a $5 admin charge). It's very tasteful and might also have the effect of tail-gaters backing off from the car in front (here's hoping).

More information (for Ontario veterans) here. Perhaps this will become a national program?


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## khummsein (Sep 12, 2003)

I put mine in my hat because it kept falling off my lapel. I take my jacket on/off many times a day -- the hat stays, so does the poppy. I'd have it over my heart (Atwood said it was like a "blow to the heart" which i think is very appropriate), but it just doesn't stay...

Sorry. But i think, as Sinc says, it's the display that should count. Maybe i just don't put on my poppy correctly...


Canada.com on what the poppy means...maybe it's a little overblown but i think the idea's right.


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## bopeep (Jun 7, 2004)

My father served overseas - he is rising 86 years. He doens't speak of his experience except when his little brother comes up. His little brother is 80. They lost a brother 'over there' as they put it. 

I was at a friend's place and she home schools her kids. Her eldest daughter, during a geography lesson, stated that she didn't care about any stupid wars, they [wars] just kill all the single hot guys. 

sigh. On one hand I am glad that that generation is so far removed from the horrors of war, but on the other hand it bothers me that we ARE forgetting.


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## Brainstrained (Jan 15, 2002)

Last night my Cub Pack had a special guest in John Baker, a RCAF veteran, now in his eighties, who told the kids of his experiences in WWII. 

They were most impressed by his stories. He was a tailgunner on a Wellington bomber during his first tour (30 missions) and a mid-upper gunner on a Lancaster during his second tour (19 missions).

Two points stand out in his presentation. The first was when asked how many of his friends died, he asked four of the 20 Cubs to stand to underline that bomber command had a survival rate of 20 per cent. The second was when asked if he had nightmares, and he quietly said yes, he still has nightmares.

You can tell when nine-year-old kids are impressed. They sat quietly for 40 minutes. Here's picture of some of them with Mr. Baker after his presentation.

Mr. Baker was referred to us by The Memory Project, which runs a sort of speakers' bureau for veterans trained to give presentations. I have used it as a resource in the past, my brother-in-law has worked on projects with The Memory Project, and I agree with Yardarm51 that it is an important effort that deserves our immediate attention.

Anyway tomorrow, I'll take some time off work to attend North Bay's memorial service, think of my father and my uncles who served, say a prayer for those who didn't come home, and another one for Mr. Baker who has helped me and my Cub Pack remember.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

For a guy whose brain always hurts, you seem to do an awful lot of good on this old globe.

Well done my boy. Keep it up!

Cheers


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

_
Lest We Forget

On behalf of Prime Minister Paul Martin, the Liberal Caucus, and the Liberal Party of Canada, we take a moment to reflect on Remembrance Day and remember those that have gone before us and sacrificed their lives to serve our country and the cause of peace.

November 11 is a very important day in this country. It is the day when we take a moment to honour those Canadians who have served, and who are currently serving, in the name of freedom, peace, and democracy, throughout the world. 

As with every year, the Liberal Party of Canada will lay a wreath at the National War Memorial during the national ceremony in Ottawa to honour our fallen soldiers.

Our thoughts and prayers are with all of Canada’s war veterans, the active members of our armed forces and their families. We salute them for the role that they play in continuing our proud tradition of serving with dignity and honour.

*We must remember. If we do not, the sacrifice of those one hundred thousand Canadian lives will be meaningless. They died for us, for their homes and families and friends, for a collection of traditions they cherished and a future they believed in; they died for Canada. The meaning of their sacrifice rests with our collective national consciousness; our future is their monument. 
(Heather Robertson, A Terrible Beauty, The Art of Canada at War, 
Toronto, Lorimer, 1977.)*

We thank those women and men who defended, and continue to defend, our freedoms, and our democracy.
_

Liberal Party of Canada


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## iPetie (Nov 25, 2003)

Every year, Rememberance Day effects me more. I, due to my generation have been spared the horrors of war. Every year I live, I am more thankful for that .
For the last four years, I look at my son on November 11th and pray that his generation will be so lucky. I am comforted in the fact that he lives in a Country that does not go to war easily. That is very much a result of the sacrifices of the past.

I was in South Korea 20 months ago and my business partners there took me to the Inchon war memorial.
It is a very revered location and always full of Hundreds of young Korean School Children. At least 5 or 6 of them kept pointing at me and saying Yankee, Yankee. It was not a negative thing, more a fun thing. The teacher told the children very sternly something I could not understand. They stopped immediatly and all started bowing. I bowed also.
I asked Wony what she had said and he told me that she had seen my Lapel pin and told the children I was Canadian.

I was literally brought to tears. I was never so proud of my country and the way we conduct ourselves, even in a war.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

iPetie, many Canadians also died in Korea. It is only now that the Korean War vets are being recognized for their service. The same is taking place in the US re the Vietnam War vet.


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## yardarm51 (Aug 26, 2004)

For the complaint about wearing a poppy on the right side.. 

I have no problem with it. Neither do most vets I know. Many of them wore their poppy on their beret and one fellow I saw had dozens of them all over his suspenders and hat. He was one of the fellas who was there so if it doesn't bother him...

Perhaps the fellow with the poppy on the right side has cardio-dextroposition? A condition in which the heart grows on the right side of the chest cavity as opposed to the left. Far reaching I know but unless you ask...


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

It was a cool but sunny morning at the St.John's War Memorial. The citizens of Newfoundland and Labrador, having lost more men per capita than any other country in the First World War, have always taken this day quite serious. Memorial University of Newfoundland, where I teach, was created in 1925 as a lasting memorial to those who died in this war and would never have a chance for higher education. Paix.


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

I wasn't able to get to any ceremonies, however when the clock on my iMac reached the 11th hour, I stopped what I was doing and gave a moment of silence and to think about what this day and what was sacrificed means to me.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Good for you, MP. Lest we ALL forget. Paix, mon ami.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Our services today took place in brilliant sunshine and one of those cobalt blue skies that only happen in Alberta.

Brisk at -6, we were blessed with not a puff of wind.

Sadly my wife observed the crowd was the smallest in the many years we have attended, and I fear for the future of the day itself.

The two minute silence was broken by two dogs barking at each other.  

Why do people insist on bringing their large dogs to an event such as this?

Oh well, I came home for lunch and will head back to the Legion for an afternoon of fellowship.


Cheers


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sinc, I have an interesting Remembrance Day dog story. When we moved into this area of St.John's (the Churchill Park area) we got an Old English Sheepdog. I would walk Annie in the park daily, and at various times during the warm sunny weather, there was an old man who would wave to me. One day, he called out to me to come on over. Annie was a well behaved OES and sat next to him as he sat in his chair, petting Annie all the while asking me questions about her. After a couple of weeks of doing this (it was during the summer) Annie would go over to his house, which bordered the park, and sit by his door, waiting for him to come out, which he usually did. By mid-October, it was getting a bit brisk, but he would be out there nevertheless.

However, he started to ramble on about the first world war. The stories he told me were amazing. His wife, who would join us at various times, came out on this day saying that Bert was getting a bit senile. When I asked if he had served in WWI, she replied, "Oh yes, Bert went over when he was just a lad of 18." This would have been 1980, so Bert was over 80 years old at the time. 

Comes November, the weather was warm and Annie and I would see Bert every afternoon. However, this time he called me "James" on certain days, and "John" on other days. His wife told me that James and John were his brothers who went over with him, but never returned from the war.

On the morning of Nov.11th, 1980, I was listening to the local CBC radio station. They mentioned that one of Newfoundland's few surviving vets from WWI had just passed away peacefully in his home near Churchill Square. When they mentioned who it was on the radio, I realized that it was Burt. I rushed over to his house, and met his wife who was just coming out the door on her way to the funeral home. She told me that yes, sadly, it was Burt who passed away. However, she wanted to thank me, and I quote, "For taking the time to talk to an old man about his war experiences." She also told me that he loved these talks, and especially loved petting Annie, since they did not have a dog since neither could have cared for it very well at their age.

That morning, I took Annie with me down to the St. John's War Memorial. For some strange reason, she sat there, not making a sound, until the playing of the "Last Post". At that, she whined, and lay down on the ground. She did not make a sound, or moved an inch, until the "Last Post" concluded. 

So, while I agree that people should not take pets down to the Remembrance Day events, this was one instance that it took place with a remarkable conclusion.

Paix, mon ami.


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## Pelao (Oct 2, 2003)

Some of you have commented on the 11th being a holiday in certain Provinces.

There has been some talk on moves for this to be a national holiday. At first, my sentiments were to support this. Then, I consider what happens to some other days: there is little emphasis on why it is a holiday.

I would be concerned at losing the 2 minutes of silence in schools and workplaces. Today in our office the silence was, once again, intense and emotional. My kids experience it at school.

I asked my grade 1 monster this morning what she thought it was all about. She said "there are bad people, and sometimes they attack us. Some Daddies had to go fight them, and some of the Daddies did not come back. Today we say thanks". That was OK with me: we'll pass for now on the fact that lot's of Mommies do the same stuff. 

My older one (grade 11) was asked to present some poetry, and I dusted off Wilfred Owen's stuff. She was in tears, and she is a tough lady.

A holiday would be great, we owe it to those who served and serve: as long as the nearest working day to the 11th retains the 2 minutes.

Silence can be so powerful.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Thanks, Dr. G... that was quite moving

M.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

CubaMark, strange but true.

Pelao, let's make it a national day of remembrance rather than merely a holiday.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I am saddened that all of the stock markets in Europe and the US are open today.........as well as in Canada.


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## Pelao (Oct 2, 2003)

Dr. G,

I agree, but what will that mean in practice?

A worthwhile objective requiring a lot of thought and agreement.


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## andreww (Nov 20, 2002)

Another Remembrance day come and gone. For the first time I have noticed, amid talks of making it a national holiday, that people didn't really seem to care. For the first time that I can ever remember, 11 o'clock came and went without a word or pause. On public transit I had to search hard for the few people wearing poppies. I can remember when I would have to search for the person not wearing a poppy. Maybe it's becaues those brave old vets, or what few of them we have left, can no longer muster the energy to stand and sell them anymore...

My 8 year old daughter was givin an assignment to give a report in front of the class for Remembrance day. She chose to make the topic her grandfather (my dad) as he had served in WWII (the big one). As she interviewed him I took notes and learned for the first time of the hardships, terror and sacrifices he had endured to ensure all of us freedom. You see, my dad, like most vets had never spoken of the war and I had never really felt comfortable asking him about it. As a child I remember gazing at the frame full of medals he had won, so proud, yet confused as to why something so great would be hidden in the deepest part of a desk drawer. But not until now did I realize that he left his home at the age of 16 to fight. He would not see his family for 20 years, as the Army had indeed taken him to new worlds, and there really wasn't much of a home to go home to. He lost friends, and became a man much earlier than he should have.

This year both my daughter and myself have learned alot about these great men, and we should never, dammit I never will, forget the sacrifices they made for us.


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## andreww (Nov 20, 2002)

a moment of silence...


lest we forget!


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

> and we should never, dammit I never will, forget the sacrifices they made for us.


At the very least they are not forgotten according to the conversations going on in this thread.


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

As I leave the board for the evening to go home and spend time with and cherish my family I shall leave you with the words of John McCrae:

In Flanders Fields

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
      In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
      In Flanders fields.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)




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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - ABC affiliates in at least eight states will not televise the network's broadcast of the World War II film "Saving Private Ryan" because they fear repercussions from U.S. regulators. 

Affiliates in Alabama, Georgia, Iowa, Massachusetts, North Carolina, Ohio, South Carolina and West Virginia said they were worried about running afoul of the Federal Communications Commission in Washington. 

WOI-TV in Des Moines, Iowa, for example, said it decided to pre-empt the Academy Award winning film, which depicts several violent battle scenes and contains foul language, over concerns about possible fines by the FCC."

Amazing!!!!    The FCC says nothing about the language and violence on the Sopranos!!!!!


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

Perhaps it has more to do with the graphic depiction of the horrific violence endured by the men on the beaches and in the hand-to-hand combat. The assault on Falluja is underway and the images we see on the news are a lot less graphic (likely sanitized, albeit real). The military recruitment videos never show the grit of real combat and most of us cannot imagine the horror - although talking to a veteran who experienced battle is a start.

A quote I heard on the radio just before the Falluja assault was that the troops listened to hard rock to make it seem mmore like a video game.

In addition to honouring the veterans of previous wars, a good part of Remembrance Day is to remind us of the terror these men and women endured so that we are not condemned to repeat history unless absolutely necessary. War should always be the last possible resort.


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## yardarm51 (Aug 26, 2004)

Yesterday at 11 am I found myself in a school assembly. As this is a buddhist school I figured it was a religious occasion. The headmaster came out in his priests robes and sang a long hymn while in turn an admin member, a teacher and a student each lit an offering of incense. After this short ceremony an old lady was invited to speak to the assembled students. Now keep in mind my Japanese is not fluent but I understood enough to get the following...

She was a student at the school in the 40s. She described the school and said that all the girls worked on aircraft engines. Basically they inspected piston head for faults. Pretty amazing education there eh? The nation was so desperate for labour they included school girls (11-14) in the labour pool. All the students were in groups of four. This made it easier for taking attendance etc. Each group has a leader and they let the teacher know everyone is present etc. Anyway her group happened to be very tight and best friends. One day (Nov 11) they were doing their thing and something happened that scared the pants off of them. I couldn't catch what it was as she used some vocab I don't know. Anyway they took off from campus and started to run. They got most of the way to her home (several km away) when they got hungry and realized how sore their feet were. They saw an old lady by a house and asked if they could rest a while in the field. The old lady gave them some mikan (christmas oranges) and told them to take their time. During the rest they decided they had best get back to school to find out what was going on. There were no telephones around so they couldn't just call from home. In any case back they went. When they arrived one of the teachers saw them coming into the campus. They figured they were done for. He was a really strict teacher and would not look kindly on four girls playing hooky. However when he saw them he grabbed and hugged them all and started crying. They couldn't figure it out. He led them to the tennis courts where there were four bodies under white sheets. Apparently the event that had caused them to run off in the first place was a great noise. What had happened was a bomb fell on the school. It must have been a bomb that got caught in the belly of one of the bomber which had been on a raid over the industrial area of the next district. It happened occasionally that a bomb was released from it's rack but a fin or something got caught and it wouldn't drop with the others. The crew would then wait till all the other ordinance was gone before going in and clearing it out. The bomb had killed 4 students but 8 were missing. No one knew who the four bodies belonged to (too mangled) nor what had happened to the other group of four (disintigrated, buried in rubble). I found out I was in a memorial service for the war dead of a girl's junior high.

At 11 am during the hymn I bowed my head and obseved a minute of silence. I had just explained to one of my colleagues what the flower on my breast meant and she had said something to the effect of "Oh that is very appropriate considering this memorial ceremony." At that point I still didn't know what was going on but she was right. I will leave my poppy (thanks to my sis for sending it to me) in the Hodogaya Commonwealth War Cemetary on Saturday.


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