# iPod stealin' car wash in TO



## mycatsnameis (Mar 3, 2000)

Just thought I'd post an FYI after having my 40 gig iPod stolen out of my car a couple weeks back. My wife had taken the car to this car wash:

*Express Hand Car Wash & Express Detail Centre*
*416-696-5333*
80 Laird Drive, 
East York, ON M4G 3V1

and I couldn't find the iPod that night when I went looking for it. Now it travels to and from teh car regularly for charging etc. so it took us a while to put 2&2 together but eventually we were left with no other explanation than it must have disappeared there (the car was hand washed and vacuumed out by the staff). 

Talked to the manager who I'd describe as rather unsympathetic. Bascially told me it was too late to do anything and that it was our own fault b/c there are signs posted telling people to remove their valuables before the car is cleaned. Oh and also that there had never been any complaints about thefts at that location of course (sigh).

FWIW, this company also operates other car washes in the city, these are the ones I'm aware of:
*Eastern-Leslie Car Wash*
*416-469-9655*
828 Eastern Avenue, 
Toronto, ON M4L 1A1

*Planet Car Wash & Express Detail Centre*
689 King W
Toronto, ON M5V 1M9
(416) 703-1524


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## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

For shame, that manager


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## 8127972 (Sep 8, 2005)

I'll be sure to avoid those car washes. What you experienced is TOTALLY unacceptable. 

ehMac dudes...... Spread the word. Nothing alters the behaviour of bad merchants like dollars not being spent in their stores.


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

Actually, you as the consumer should be aware of your responsibilities.

The car wash has signs stating that you must take responsibility for your valuables. There are multiple people with easy access to your vehicle. Management can't watch over everybody's shoulder to make sure they are being honest.

To prove theft, somebody would actually have to see the crime take place, or catch the perp in possession of the equipment. You assumptions prove nothing, and you have opened yourself up to a libel action.


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## mycatsnameis (Mar 3, 2000)

guytoronto said:


> Actually, you as the consumer should be aware of your responsibilities.
> 
> The car wash has signs stating that you must take responsibility for your valuables. There are multiple people with easy access to your vehicle. Management can't watch over everybody's shoulder to make sure they are being honest.
> 
> To prove theft, somebody would actually have to see the crime take place, or catch the perp in possession of the equipment. You assumptions prove nothing, and you have opened yourself up to a libel action.


I don't have any problem with that interpretation, there is no way to prove that the theft happened as I described it. The manager bascially said that if my wife had noticed it immediately then they would have searched the employees that day. I post the thread as a cautionary tale on both sides of the equation, responsibility of the consumer in terms of taking appropriate care and also the vendor in terms of good customer service.


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## psxp (May 23, 2006)

guytoronto said:


> You assumptions prove nothing, and you have opened yourself up to a libel action.


and thats the dang problem with Canada now.. turning into America with your stupid Law suits here. 

I'm glad people point out the not so consumer friendly stores and places. 

Thanks for the heads up on the car wash.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Thanks for the heads up about the car wash--would you leave your iPod in the car for ANY hand wash or clean?

Why not just leave cash out instead, and save them the work of fencing the iPod?

Sheesh.


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## mycatsnameis (Mar 3, 2000)

HowEver said:


> Thanks for the heads up about the car wash--would you leave your iPod in the car for ANY hand wash or clean?
> 
> Why not just leave cash out instead, and save them the work of fencing the iPod?
> 
> Sheesh.


Well I you notice it wasn't me who took the car to the wash  (mind you I'm even more absent-minded), nevertheless, it was in the glove box which was not an area that was supposed to be touched during the cleaning.


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

psxp said:


> and thats the dang problem with Canada now.. turning into America with your stupid Law suits here.


Actually, libel and slander laws are from the Commonwealth.

You cannot harm a person's or business' reputation without fact and evidence.

You may think it's stupid, but how would you feel if word started to spread that you were a murderer, thief, child molester, Nazi war criminal, embezzler, con artist, and jay walker?

I'm sure you wouldn't think libel laws are stupid then.


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## xorpion (Jul 26, 2002)

guytoronto said:


> Actually, libel and slander laws are from the Commonwealth.
> 
> You cannot harm a person's or business' reputation without fact and evidence.
> 
> ...



ill be damned if you're gonna accuse me of jaywalking, mister!!


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## Todd (Oct 14, 2002)

guytoronto said:


> Actually, you as the consumer should be aware of your responsibilities.
> 
> The car wash has signs stating that you must take responsibility for your valuables. There are multiple people with easy access to your vehicle. Management can't watch over everybody's shoulder to make sure they are being honest.


WRONG.

If I leave valuable anything in the front seat of a convertable car with the top down overnight in a unlit parking lot, IT IS NOT MY FAULT if the valuables are stolen. The perception that victims are at fault for other people doing wrong makes me ill. Stealing is a basic, universal wrong. Opportunity does not make it right. Temptation does not make it right. Stupidity does not make it right. Taking property that does not belong to you it is an immoral act. The victim is not to blame if the criminal found the opportunity too convenient for their ethics.

Even if the iPod was not stolen by one of the employees or by the manager himself, it doesn't excuse the manager's attitude. A simple, "I'll ask my staff and take your phone number in case we find it" would have been better than shrugging it off and pointing to meaningless signs. That kind of attitude says that he condones theft in his shop because he believes - falsely - that if his employees are tempted beyond their ethical limits with theft, they should be excused of their actions.


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

Todd said:


> If I leave valuable anything in the front seat of a convertable car with the top down overnight in a unlit parking lot, IT IS NOT MY FAULT if the valuables are stolen.


If you actually believe this, you are an idiot. What colour is the sky in your world?


Todd said:


> The victim is not to blame if the criminal found the opportunity too convenient for their ethics.


The victim must accept some responisiblity. If you get mugged in Central Park while jogging at midnight, 9 out of 10 people are going to ask you "What were you thinking? Are you an idiot? It's Central Park! It's midnight! Smarten up!"

Everything else you said I agree with, but that doesn't negate the fact that people need to take responisibility for their actions.


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## Todd (Oct 14, 2002)

guytoronto said:


> If you actually believe this, you are an idiot. What colour is the sky in your world?
> 
> The victim must accept some responisiblity. If you get mugged in Central Park while jogging at midnight, 9 out of 10 people are going to ask you "What were you thinking? Are you an idiot? It's Central Park! It's midnight! Smarten up!"
> 
> Everything else you said I agree with, but that doesn't negate the fact that people need to take responisibility for their actions.


You cannot be responsible for the actions of other people. Their will is theirs alone. You cannot make choices for them or control their actions. Ultimately, at the moment of decision to act or not act, every person can only truly be responsible for themselves.

An action can be foolish - like leaving valuables on the front seat of an open convertible or jogging at night in a dangerous area - but the suggestion that a person should be held responsible for the actions of another person made against them is insane. You cannot control the choices or actions of other people. How then can you be responsible for them?

This is a big problem we have in our society. We have become so used to unethical people acting against us that we accept it as OK and even blame ourselves when bad things are done to us by other people!

It would be foolish to not recognize that there are immoral people in society and that we need to protect our valuables and person from them. But not doing so is not a lapse of individual responsibility - it is not immoral to leave your iPod unattended or to go out at night alone. Foolish, perhaps. But don't confuse this with not being responsible. Responsibility is being accountable for your own actions. The victim of a crime is not at fault for the actions of another person against them. (In fact, they CANNOT be at fault because it is impossible for a person to control the will of another.)


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## capitalK (Oct 21, 2003)

Well I think the point is that management can't be held responsible for the theft. Is the person who stole it responsible? Absolutely, but management has covered their backs by saying the BUSINESS is not responsible for the actions of its employees.

Would it be nice if they replaced it? Sure. But you can't expect a business to conduct an internal investigation a few days later to determine who stole it. That's just not practical.

Lesson learned. Make a police report and buy a new iPod. That's my suggestion.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Suppose this: you are in Yorkdale. You are there perhaps to ask questions about the new MacBook or perhaps even your own iPod.

You set down the iPod, stupidly walking about from it. You forget about it. 20 minutes later you get your appointment at the genius desk, and realize the iPod is missing.

This store does NOT have a great big sign reminding you to keep hold of your belongings whether they are valuable or not.

What do you do? Do you ask the manager to stripsearch all the Apple t-shirted employees? Search their lockers/bags/briefcases? Check the customers to see if they've already sold it to one of them at a discount? Check the classifieds here on ehMac?

What do you think they'll tell you? Do you think it will be any different than the car wash (minus the reminder sign), or a department store, or a restaurant? Where else is the store/merchant/seller/waiter/clerk/manager/grunt responsible for what *you* lose?

Even in situations where someone is acting for you "in loco parentis," that is, AS YOUR PARENTS, in school, no one is responsible for your belongings except for you (unless you can prove the item has been stolen, and who stole it).

I think the worst part of this story, and the one the police will use to poke a big hole in the middle of their own report, is that there isn't any certainty that the iPod was stolen, let alone stolen by the car wash staff. It could be residing where it was knocked in the OP's garage at home, it could be they left their car unlocked while shopping or at the movies that evening, any number of possibilities arise, since he "couldn't find the iPod that night when I went looking for it."


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

Todd said:


> If I leave valuable anything in the front seat of a convertable car with the top down overnight in a unlit parking lot, IT IS NOT MY FAULT if the valuables are stolen.


Try telling that to an insurance adjuster.


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## mycatsnameis (Mar 3, 2000)

HowEver said:


> I think the worst part of this story, and the one the police will use to poke a big hole in the middle of their own report, is that there isn't any certainty that the iPod was stolen, let alone stolen by the car wash staff. It could be residing where it was knocked in the OP's garage at home, it could be they left their car unlocked while shopping or at the movies that evening, any number of possibilities arise, since he "couldn't find the iPod that night when I went looking for it."


And as I said I cannot dispute that. OTOH, we've owned it for more than 2 years and it has never gone unaccounted for (trust me, the house, car and garage have been turned upside down a few times). The main reason I waited as long as I did was to check all other possibilities out before making any accusation. If you asked me am I 100% sure that this was the way it happened, I could not, in good conscience, say yes. I titled the thread incorrectly then (had just gotten off the phone with the manager and was still steamed - another lesson learned). That's why I would not even bother to call teh police or try to claim it on my insurance.

Based on the circumstances however, and knowing myself (i.e. that personally, I wouldn't make a claim like this if I was not reasonably sure this is what happened - again something that no one here could ever corroborate), I'm willing to stand by my assertions with the obvious cavets. Is it going to change anything? No. But maybe I hope it will serve some sort of positive purpose for somebody else.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

I'm pretty sure the warning has been successfully and clearly delivered: remove your valuables from your car when submitting it to this kind of wash. Absolutely right.


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

...and make your kids clean the car.


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## kevs~just kevs (Mar 21, 2005)

guytoronto said:


> ...and make your kids clean the car.


Dad?!?! Is that you?????


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Tempus fugit...


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## Call me 'Sherman' (Nov 21, 2004)

guytoronto said:


> The victim must accept some responisiblity. If you get mugged in Central Park while jogging at midnight, 9 out of 10 people are going to ask you "What were you thinking? Are you an idiot? It's Central Park! It's midnight! Smarten up!"


This arguement makes no sense.

Sure, you were mugged in a dangerous area.
And because there were muggers there, they mugged you.
But the area is dangerous because of the muggers.

I think you get the idea.

Or, a hot girl gets raped. She's to blame, right?


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## jhollington (Jan 29, 2007)

Well, I think the problem is that the pendulum of personal responsibility has swung too far in the other direction.

I don't think anybody in this thread is _actually_ suggesting that the victim is to blame, but at the same time, I have little sympathy for somebody who knowingly exposes themselves to unnecessary risks, whether it be risks of their person or merely their property.

Yes, there are evil people out there, but if you're willingly and knowingly exposing yourself to risk, then there are varying degrees of deserving what you get. 

While culpability in the _legal_ sense should always be assigned to the actual perpretator of a crime (the thief, mugger, or rapist in the context of this discussion), it doesn't absolve anybody of the responsibility to protect themselves from undue exposure to harm.

To act like everything that happens to you is _solely_ the fault of everybody else around you is the other extreme of the problem.


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

A specific issue that has been alluded to here but not mentioned directly: to interest your insurance company and the police you need incontrovertible proof that the iPod was actually in the car in the first place. So far we have "only" your word. Not that I am dis-ing you personally, but without such proof you are pretty much out of luck.....

Bottom line: detail your own car yourself! I don't let anyone else drive my car and I certainly don't let anyone detail it unless I have stripped it myself.


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## Call me 'Sherman' (Nov 21, 2004)

No one should walk around with their eyes closed expecting the world to look out for them. But no one should say that it's *their* fault.

There's doing something unwise and *deserving* what you got.

Going to Central Park at night is unwise. You didn't deserve getting mugged though.


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## TheBat (Feb 11, 2005)

It seems we have posters siding with the ideal world, and some siding with the real world. If only we could all live in the ideal world.... Unfortunately we have to put up with the real world, and live our lives accordingly.

I have visited poor countries in the distant past, where you could leave your wallet anywhere, and return sometime later, and still find it there. I've even lived in small tows in Canada, where I never locked my house or car doors, and never had anything stolen.

Those days, sadly, have long gone. Now I am forced to take precautions, based on my local circumstances, to reduce the chance of injury or loss.​


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

Why are these old threads resurrected?



Call me 'Sherman' said:


> Or, a hot girl gets raped. She's to blame, right?


How about, a girl hoochies herself up, goes to a bar, drinks beyond belief, hits on every guy in her stupor state, wakes up the next morning in some guys bed, and screams rape. Is she to blame? Partially, yes.

No girl deserves to be raped. Taking extreme chances in dangerous situations? You have to accept some of the responsibility.

If a mountain climber dies falling off a mountain, do you blame gravity?


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Gravity tried to mess me a few times and I smacked it up really good to teach it a lesson. It's been good to me ever since.


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## messed_kid (Jun 13, 2007)

dona83 said:


> Gravity tried to mess me a few times and I smacked it up really good to teach it a lesson. It's been good to me ever since.


Lucky!

Everytime I try to fight gravity..it just knocks me down. 


Anywho...living in an "ideal" world would be safe...but boring too. We need some bad things to happen in life to make the few good things that much more appreciateable.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

guytoronto said:


> Actually, you as the consumer should be aware of your responsibilities.
> 
> The car wash has signs stating that you must take responsibility for your valuables. There are multiple people with easy access to your vehicle. Management can't watch over everybody's shoulder to make sure they are being honest.
> 
> To prove theft, somebody would actually have to see the crime take place, or catch the perp in possession of the equipment. You assumptions prove nothing, and you have opened yourself up to a libel action.


You sir are an ass. Every possible thread you are in you are being an ass, adding nothing but scorn. If I was the mod, I'd ban you for the good of the board. 

Add something, help someone, give someone a lift up. Just stop being an ass.


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## Cuzz323 (May 3, 2007)

***** Happens*

honestly people need to keep their belongings much more secure , saying its not your fault for it being stolen is like saying if you hire a team of cleaners to clean your house and not have anyone to watch over them and then jewelery goes missing and you report it two weeks later.

in the perfect world houses wouldn't need doors and cars wouldn't need seat belts and insurance but they are all put in place for safety and security and maybe if you had upgraded your ipod you could of put a security lock on that also so it would be useless to asshole who touch your things.

but i don't understand why you didn't ask for a log of who cleaned your car, it could help.

all in all you live and you learn you shouldn't put an entire company on blast for what one of the bottom feeders did.


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

imachungry said:


> You sir are an ass.


Thanks for the creative input.



imachungry said:


> Every possible thread you are in you are being an ass, adding nothing but scorn.


Really? Have a look at my posting history: http://www.ehmac.ca/search.php?do=finduser&u=5900



imachungry said:


> If I was the mod, I'd ban you for the good of the board.


I guess it's a good thing you aren't a mod.



imachungry said:


> Add something, help someone, give someone a lift up. Just stop being an ass.


I shall take your lead on contributing positively to this thread.


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## MacGYVER (Apr 15, 2005)

Wow, if I was the owner of that company, I would be all over the OP with a law suit.

The OP can't prove the iPod was in the glove box of his vehicle as he didn't even know for quite some time that it was missing. (Who doesn't use their iPod these days for that long of a period?)

The OP then goes in public and accuses the owner of the company that someone stole his iPod out of the car. The OP has no proof of the iPod being in the car, and he doesn't have proof that anyone stole it from his car at the car wash.

Perhaps a notice to the owner of the company should be notified of this open to the public statement that his business is at risk due to the OP above and his false accusations.

In the future, if you have an iPod (That is if you know for sure there is one in the glove box, and you don't forget or assume etc...) Mac laptop or Mac anything in your vehicle, and you bring it to an establishment like the above car wash, which by the way had HUGE signs posted everywhere warning you, that you take your PERSONAL belongings with you.


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## Call me 'Sherman' (Nov 21, 2004)

guytoronto said:


> Why are these old threads resurrected?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sure, she's an idiot for putting herself in that situation, and there's not a lot of sympathy she's gonna get. But she didn't *choose* to get raped (assuming that was the case, the scenario you described left a few evidential holes). She's, perhaps, to blame for putting herself in a dangerous situation, she isn't to blame for getting raped.

In the eyes of the law, will the rapist get less of a sentence if the person he raped was hot or ugly?


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## jhollington (Jan 29, 2007)

We're talking about two different things here... _legal_ responsibility (ie, criminal culpability or _mens rea_) as opposed to a moral/ethical responsibility to demonstrate a certain standard of what one could refer to as "responsible behaviour."

In many cases, the responsibility and/or blame for an event is rarely a black and white issue. If I place myself in a dangerous situation, it doesn't make the perpetrator of a crime any _less_ responsible, but at the same time, the person who put themselves in that situation _does_ need to accept some responsibility for doing so.

I recall a story from a few years ago that was similar to what _guytoronto_ stated... A young girl gets dressed up, goes to a bar, starts flirting recklessly with a number of guys, and then accepts an invitation from a couple of them to go back to their hotel room. After spending a couple of hours with them, she at some point decides that she does not in fact want to go all the way, and the individuals in question won't take no for an answer.

Does this mean the two idiots who raped her are any _less_ culpable? Absolutely NOT, and they should be dealt with accordingly. However, she can't shrug it off as if she can do as she pleases and act as if what she was doing was okay.

To put it another way, if I were the girl's father, my initial response would be to go and beat the tar out of the two guys (in the very least). Once that particular issue had been resolved, I would be sitting my daughter down and having a very stern "What the #*$&#$*& were you _thinking_!??!" conversion with her.

This ultimately becomes largely a semantic discussion, but the reality is that many people end up in situations they didn't "choose" to be in, but that doesn't absolve them of all responsibility for getting into those situations in the first place. Perhaps it's just my frustration coming out, but I'm getting tired of seeing people act like it's everybody _else's_ fault for what happens to them, and that even if they're out whacking the proverbial hornet's nest, society should somehow come crawling to them on bended knee and apologize for getting into trouble because they were being _stupid_.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

guytoronto said:


> Thanks for the creative input.
> 
> 
> Really? Have a look at my posting history: http://www.ehmac.ca/search.php?do=finduser&u=5900
> ...


Actually, I did just look at your posting history, as if I needed to. This is the second post TODAY I looked at in which you are a true and verified smart ass. I've just confirmed you have many, many more of the same posts. 

It may be an indication of your character that you pointed me to your posting history as a defence and yet a casual glance shows you to be the very ass I accuse you of being--in thread after thread. Think a bit on that before you ridicule someone again, oh wise one. It gets very tiresome, okay?


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

imachungry said:


> Actually, I did just look at your posting history, as if I needed to. This is the second post TODAY I looked at in which you are a true and verified smart ass. I've just confirmed you have many, many more of the same posts.
> 
> It may be an indication of your character that you pointed me to your posting history as a defence and yet a casual glance shows you to be the very ass I accuse you of being--in thread after thread. Think a bit on that before you ridicule someone again, oh wise one. It gets very tiresome, okay?


I guess pointing out the legal ramifications of libelous statements would make ANYONE appear to be an ass.

But thank you for pointing out my posting history today (prior to you referring to me as an ass at 6:41pm):
5:48pm - Reiterated my point of some personal responsibility is required for actions. Made note that "No girl deserves to be raped."
2:22pm - Recommend iWeb to a person looking for easy web publishing (how ass-y of me!)
10:24am - Responded to person who felt Rogers would "rape" him on iPhone chargers, I told him to not buy the iPhone then.

Yesterday:
12:39pm - Recommended a simple USB switch as a solution.
12:33pm - Recommended software for posting photo albums.
10:54am - Advised on why video wasn't working. Recommend poster follow previously posted suggestions.
7:46am - Recommended online shopping cart software.

So in the last two days, I've been a COMPLETE ass here on ehMac.

Let's see how you've been doing (again, prior to you referring to me as an ass at 6:41pm):
June 22 - Asked a question about the iPhone
June 22 - Made the comment "Only in Canada. Sheesh. How ridiculous.  " about the iPhone. Not really sure what comment you were responding to.
June 12 - Made a comment about the Safari Beta  
June 9 - Complained that Apple wasn't doing anything for Canada re: iPhone
April 7 - Looking for solution for travelling with MBP

So, in the last three months, you've posted six times, and of those six posts, not one was to answer a fellow ehMacer's question. You were either looking for help, or just making general comments.

Boards like ehMac grow by there being conversation back and forth. People like getting answers to their questions. All topics are open to debate. It would seem you are opposed to these three principles.


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## messed_kid (Jun 13, 2007)

guytoronto said:


> I guess pointing out the legal ramifications of libelous statements would make ANYONE appear to be an ass.
> 
> But thank you for pointing out my posting history today (prior to you referring to me as an ass at 6:41pm):
> 5:48pm - Reiterated my point of some personal responsibility is required for actions. Made note that "No girl deserves to be raped."
> ...


*pats head*

there there...there there


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## MacFloorballer (Jan 28, 2009)

*Car Wash Warning*

I know this thread has taken a life of its own, but this comes up when searching for the car wash so I wanted to add my own review.

I WAS a customer at Planet Car Wash until my experience today... I regularly put up with the sometimes shoddy work for the low price and convenient downtown location. Now I will never go back!

I stopped in today to get a Mini/Express Detail for $70. As soon as I went to the customer service area the car wash guy there locked my keys in the car... TOTALLY their fault as my doors do not lock themselves unless you drive above 20 km/h. He must have nudged the lock button with his elbow.

They asked if they could drive me home to get my spare keys and I said sure, as the other option they "offered" was to break into my vehicle. No chance for that so I left with Manager Arun to my place which was only 10 minutes away. What I did not know is that as soon as I left they broke into the van without my permission. When I got back and asked WTF was going on (they damaged the door seal a bit in the process) they said they were doing me a favor as otherwise they would have towed the van at my expense since it was parked illegally on private property!!

Of course an argument ensued as I could not believe what I was hearing... all this while my van was being cleaned. Not once did either Arun, or the worker Gordon, admit their mistake or apologize. They made it seem like my fault and were very rude and Arun especially rude in his comments as he seemed to take pleasure from the experience. On top of that, they did a horrible job cleaning the car (it's still a mess in many spots which I have photos as proof) and did not refund a dime of the $70 I paid for detailing or the 4-5 prepaid washes I have that I will never use. They laughed at me when I asked for a refund.

I suggest you do not go there for your own good. I would not want anyone to have this experience and I have filed a report with the Police.

Now I don't know if they stole that iPod or not... but I thought I'd add my thoughts on the Car Wash here.


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## keebler27 (Jan 5, 2007)

MacFloorballer said:


> I know this thread has taken a life of its own, but this comes up when searching for the car wash so I wanted to add my own review.
> 
> I WAS a customer at Planet Car Wash until my experience today... I regularly put up with the sometimes shoddy work for the low price and convenient downtown location. Now I will never go back!
> 
> ...


good for you on filing a report with the police. I can't believe they broke in after giving you a ride home for their mistake. idiots.

btw, just a piece of advice in case you hadn't thought of it - I carry 2 keys on me. 1 in my pants pocket and the other to drive with - why? b/c i've had a few cases of locking myself in the vehicle and now i'm paranoid (that and the fact I usually have my kids with me).

cheers,
keebler


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## keebler27 (Jan 5, 2007)

imachungry said:


> You sir are an ass. Every possible thread you are in you are being an ass, adding nothing but scorn. If I was the mod, I'd ban you for the good of the board.
> 
> Add something, help someone, give someone a lift up. Just stop being an ass.


You know, I agree that GT can come across that way, but it's usually b/c he's saying what ppl don't want to say and are probably thinking.
ie. in this case, I read Todd's post and thought, "ya, in a perfect world, but that's moronic to think you can leave stuff in the open without expecting it to get ripped off". 

Someone is just asking for a problem if that happens. Todd is right about society sinking to a point where we have to worry about it, but it's the truth we need to worry so leaving something in a convertible and not accepting responsibility is stupid imho.

Back to the OP, if there is signs posted, there's nothing you can do unfortunately. It doesn't warrant the attitude from the employees however. That is unacceptable, but customer service sucks on the whole these days.

I understand the anger and desire to post a message saying to avoid that place (thanks btw), but in today's world, you could be subject to libel threats for posting something without 100% proof - another sad state - wanting to sue everyone for everything.

good luck,
keebler


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

... 2 year old thread about the iPod and ensuing mudslinging, keebler...


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## keebler27 (Jan 5, 2007)

CanadaRAM said:


> ... 2 year old thread about the iPod and ensuing mudslinging, keebler...


lmao.

guess i should maybe check those dates. lol


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