# Steve. Are you ok?



## iLabmAn (Jan 1, 2003)

Is it me, or does Steve look quite sickly?


----------



## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

Well, he did recover from cancer a couple of years ago.


----------



## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

His cancer was at a somewhat advanced stage when he was trying holistic treatment methods. After coming pretty close to being really irrecoverably sick, the traditional medicine brought his cancer to remission.

Most people with pancreatic cancer don't live very long from diagnoses. Steve was very fortunate.


----------



## spitfire1945 (May 17, 2008)

I thought he didnt have a cancer. His pancreas was alright. His biopsy showed that it wasn't a melanoma and something not very serious. He said something like that in his speech at some university. Atleast thats what he said.


----------



## motoyen (Aug 15, 2001)

I highly doubt that even if he was very sick would he admit it to the public. He does look awfully frail though. I hope he's ok.


----------



## Ryan1524 (Sep 27, 2003)

Maybe to prevent Apple's stock from collapsing entirely and loosing too many followers, they hid the fact that his cancer is actually still there. And that he is still dying, and hence the continuous loss of weight in the past three keynotes. 

Also notice he's handing off more and more keynote responsibility to Scott and Phil. I really Really hope I'm just dreaming here.


----------



## Greg H (Jan 4, 2002)

I knew it! I notice he looked awfully thin at his last keynote speech. I sincerely hope that he recovers from whatever malady ails him, although I'm quite sure that if it was pancreatic cancer he had a few years back, the prognosis is not good. I'm not a terribly religious man, but I suspect a prayer for Steve just may help. He is indeed a remarkable human being and there is no way we would want to lose him.


----------



## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

spitfire1945 said:


> I thought he didnt have a cancer. His pancreas was alright. His biopsy showed that it wasn't a melanoma and something not very serious. He said something like that in his speech at some university. Atleast thats what he said.


No, that's not what he said at all.

There are two forms of pancreatic cancer. The more common one is more-or-less untreatable. The second, much more rare, is operable.

Luckily, Steve had the rare kind. He finally agreed to have the operation.

I know people say he looks extremely thin, but that's probably the result of his rededication to his (IMHO) wacko biotic diet. Somebody get that guy a cheeseburger. This is what happens to hard-core vegans when they get old -- they end up very frail-looking as they lose their taste buds.


----------



## makuribu (Oct 26, 2005)

*From his Stanford Commencement Address*

"I was sedated, but my wife, who was there, told me that when they viewed the cells under a microscope the doctors started crying because it turned out to be a very rare form of pancreatic cancer that is curable with surgery. I had the surgery and I'm fine now."


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

Ryan1524 said:


> Maybe to prevent Apple's stock from collapsing entirely and loosing too many followers, they hid the fact that his cancer is actually still there.


That would be illegal.


> Also notice he's handing off more and more keynote responsibility to Scott and Phil.


Not unusual at WWDC Keynotes. Those demos are too geeky/boring for him to do.


> I really Really hope I'm just dreaming here.


You are.


----------



## Dammacx (May 22, 2006)

Oh great a "Jobs" death watch. Just what we need. :-S


----------



## SoyMac (Apr 16, 2005)

chas_m said:


> ... Somebody get that guy a cheeseburger.


chas-m, are you trying to get rid of Steve?!  
"I am on the verge of 85 and still work as hard as ever. I have lived quite long enough and am trying to die; but I simply cannot do it. A single beef-steak would finish me; but I cannot bring myself to swallow it. I am oppressed with a dread of living forever. That is the only disadvantage of vegetarianism."
-George Bernard Shaw


chas_m said:


> This is what happens to hard-core vegans when they get old -- they end up very frail-looking as they lose their taste buds.


Jobs never said he is a vegan. Stories about his lifestyle indicate he eats a plant-based diet, plus at least fish.

But do you really want Steve to start mangeing on more corpse? What would happen to Apple's designs?!
VEGETARIANS ARE MORE INTELLIGENT, SAYS STUDY


----------



## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

ShawnKing said:


> That would be illegal.


That never stopped Corporate America from lying and cheating the stockholders. GM has long said that they are working on returning to profitability, which has meant fourteen years of plant closures and the continuation of building obsolete vehicles. Excellent strategy on GM's part - for Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Nissan, Hyundai.

It never stopped Enron either...


----------



## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

Dammacx said:


> Oh great a "Jobs" death watch. Just what we need. :-S


It beats watching Pat O'Brien stoned on drugs and talking about the star's baby bumps.

Jobs probably has a healthier diet eating vegetables and beans than Ballmer, who mostly eats raw Bison (Live!)...


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

chas_m said:


> This is what happens to hard-core vegans when they get old -- they end up very frail-looking as they lose their taste buds.


Saw REM in Toronto on the weekend. Somebody give another cheeseburger to Michael Stipe.


----------



## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

EvanPitts said:


> It beats watching Pat O'Brien stoned on drugs and talking about the start's baby bumps.
> 
> Jobs probably has a healthier diet eating vegetables and beans than Ballmer, who mostly eats raw Bison...


Bison YUM!


----------



## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

EvanPitts said:


> It beats watching Pat O'Brien stoned on drugs and talking about the start's baby bumps.
> 
> Jobs probably has a healthier diet eating vegetables and beans than Ballmer, who mostly eats raw Bison...


Bison is nutritious and quite lean. In fact because it is much less fatty, it is often served more rare than beef. I've had it very rare and it's delicious. Don't sully Bison's good name by associating it with Ballmer.


----------



## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

SoyMac said:


> But do you really want Steve to start mangeing on more corpse? What would happen to Apple's designs?!
> VEGETARIANS ARE MORE INTELLIGENT, SAYS STUDY


Correlation is not causation. Don't forget, the people who eat at McDonald's every day are included in the meat-eating group.


----------



## Snapple Quaffer (Sep 2, 2003)

Ballmer's part bison.


----------



## Mississauga (Oct 27, 2001)

chas_m said:


> I know people say he looks extremely thin, but that's probably the result of his rededication to his (IMHO) wacko biotic diet. Somebody get that guy a cheeseburger. This is what happens to hard-core vegans when they get old -- they end up very frail-looking as they lose their taste buds.


With ya all the way, chas_m.

I don't have a problem with the guy "eating right", but PLEASE mix it up a little! Man cannot live on birdseed and kelp, alone.


----------



## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

hayesk said:


> Don't sully Bison's good name by associating it with Ballmer.


I was thinking more that Ballmer would just dive in and start eating a live bison - kind of like a wildcat attacks meat. Of course, his serfs and peons would have the bison roped so it couldn't move.

Ballmer wouldn't eat pork - it's not nice to eat the relatives!

Jobs needs some food, or he will need to invest in suspenders to keep his pants up.


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

EvanPitts said:


> Jobs needs some food, or he will need to invest in suspenders to keep his pants up.


As I said on Twitter, "Have we become such a nation of fatties? We think Jobs looks "gaunt" when he could just be skinny. What's wrong with skinny?"


----------



## Mississauga (Oct 27, 2001)

ShawnKing said:


> What's wrong with skinny?


... gets sand kicked in its face!


----------



## eggman (Jun 24, 2006)

*Just to add to the thread...*

AppleInsider has this article:

AppleInsider | Apple says Steve Jobs feeling a little under the weather recently

Hopefully this is all it is.


----------



## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

the first thing i thought while watching the keynote is "what's wrong with Steve?"

hope it's not serious.


----------



## Max Amerongen (Oct 27, 2007)

EvanPitts said:


> I was thinking more that Ballmer would just dive in and start eating a live bison - kind of like a wildcat attacks meat. Of course, his serfs and peons would have the bison roped so it couldn't move.
> 
> Ballmer wouldn't eat pork - it's not nice to eat the relatives!
> 
> Jobs needs some food, or he will need to invest in suspenders to keep his pants up.


Not a live one! don't be disgusting!!

...he'd beat it to death with a chair first.


----------



## Quicksilver G4 (Jan 29, 2008)

OMG he looks so scary!!!

Today










Not too long ago:


----------



## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

OT: Paul Newman is not longer very good either.


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

gmark2000 said:


> OT: Paul Newman is not longer very good either.


I used to live near Paul Newman. I've had beer with Paul Newman. 99% of us wish we'll look as good as he does at 83.


----------



## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

Steve has lost a good 30 pounds or more in these two pictures. He is definitely not well. Either anorexia or cancer. Too bad. He is a bright light.


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

fjnmusic said:


> Steve has lost a good 30 pounds or more in these two pictures. He is definitely not well. Either anorexia or cancer.


What? You don't really believe that, do you?

Just because someone has lost 30 lbs, the *only* thing you can think up is "anorexia or cancer"? Because as you well know, anorexia is rampant among middle aged men...

And, if losing 30 lbs is "cancer", WTF does Jared of Subway have? By your logic, he should be dead by now...


----------



## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

No, I don't believe it's anorexia. How much do you think he's lost in his most recent picture? Steve Jobs was a pretty thin guy to start with, unlike Jared. No matter what it is, Steve does not look healthy. I hope it isn't cancer, but since he's had it before…


----------



## mikelc2 (Mar 3, 2008)

ShawnKing said:


> What? You don't really believe that, do you?
> 
> Just because someone has lost 30 lbs, the *only* thing you can think up is "anorexia or cancer"? Because as you well know, anorexia is rampant among middle aged men...
> 
> And, if losing 30 lbs is "cancer", WTF does Jared of Subway have? By your logic, he should be dead by now...



While your opinions are appreciated, your sarcasm is not. Nor is your negative optimism. (best oxymoron ever)

I remember when my grandfather died of cancer years ago. He had the exact same degrading appearance. He started off as a thin, healthy old man, and slowly degraded, becoming more thin. It was particularly noticable on his face and arms. 

I don't know what it is, but Jobs needs to take care of himself instead of the IPhone 3G.


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

mikelc2 said:


> While your opinions are appreciated, your sarcasm is not.


(Sigh) then don't read my posts.

Sorry - people who spew uninformed opinions all over the place *deserve* sarcasm.


> Nor is your negative optimism. (best oxymoron ever)


I would disagree - oxymorons make sense. Yours doesn't. If you'd like to explain it, I'm all ears.


> I remember when my grandfather died of cancer years ago. He had the exact same degrading appearance.


So Dr Mike - what you're saying is that because Steve Jobs looks like your grandfather, he's going to die of the same disease? Does that *really* make any sense to you? I look like my father - does that mean I'll die of diabetes?


> I don't know what it is, but Jobs needs to take care of himself instead of the IPhone 3G.


Apple says that Jobs was a "little under the weather and was hit with a “common bug”. He’s now on the mend with the aid of antibiotics."

Can the worry warts move on now? Nothing to see here...


----------



## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

"Common bugs" don't make you drop that much weight that rapidly. Show some sensitivity.


----------



## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

fjnmusic said:


> No, I don't believe it's anorexia. How much do you think he's lost in his most recent picture? Steve Jobs was a pretty thin guy to start with, unlike Jared. No matter what it is, Steve does not look healthy. I hope it isn't cancer, but since he's had it before…


Whatever the cause of the weight loss...It isn't good news *"for the rest of us."*  indeed.


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

fjnmusic said:


> "Common bugs" don't make you drop that much weight that rapidly.


Dear God...what? How much weight has Jobs lost over what period of time? Do you know? No, you don't. You have *no* idea. Not a single clue.

And yet, you are "diagnosing" him with some sort of "disease". Don't you think that kind of speculation is just a *little* irresponsible?


> Show some sensitivity.


To what? You lack of knowledge of what you are talking about? Believe me, I'm *very* sensitive to that.

I've met and spoken to Steve Jobs on many occasions over the past 10+ years since he's been back at Apple. He's *always* been thin. Skinny/scrawny even.

Is he thinner now than he was 10 years ago? Yes, he is. Does that *necessarily* mean he is "diseased" or ravaged with cancer? No, it most certainly does not. So why not stop all of this ridiculous (and possibly damaging) idle speculation regarding Jobs' health until *someone* has some kind of facts to back it up?


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

BigDL said:


> Whatever the cause of the weight loss...It isn't good news *"for the rest of us."*  indeed.


OK, that makes no sense either.

"Steve Jobs loses weight" does not equal "Bad news for the rest of us". If you assume the weight loss is for some kind of deadly disease, it's certainly is bad news. But *why* do people automatically assume that? There's no evidence for it. 

There's no indication whatsoever that Jobs is in any kind of imminent danger and yet the Chicken Little's of ehMac want to scream to the Heavens, rending their garments and yelling, "Why God!? Why!?"

The man is skinny. Contrary to the girth of the majority of people in North America, "skinny" is not a Bad Thing.


----------



## gastonbuffet (Sep 23, 2004)

Sell!!!! Sellllll!!!!!


----------



## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

ShawnKing said:


> OK, that makes no sense either.
> 
> "Steve Jobs loses weight" does not equal "Bad news for the rest of us". If you assume the weight loss is for some kind of deadly disease, it's certainly is bad news. But *why* do people automatically assume that? There's no evidence for it.
> 
> ...


There is evidence of being below the bottom end of his BMI


Quicksilver G4 said:


> ...Today
> 
> http://images.appleinsider.com/r490893889.jpg
> 
> ...


Being below the bottom end of your BMI is not a good idea as a long term strategy. Also behaviour of not "performing" full keynote speech himself. Curious very curious indeed.


----------



## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

i read somewhere that he's switched to a vegan diet so that may be a huge factor in his weight.


----------



## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

ShawnKing said:


> "Steve Jobs loses weight" does not equal "Bad news for the rest of us". If you assume the weight loss is for some kind of deadly disease, it's certainly is bad news. But *why* do people automatically assume that? There's no evidence for it.
> 
> There's no indication whatsoever that Jobs is in any kind of imminent danger and yet the Chicken Little's of ehMac want to scream to the Heavens, rending their garments and yelling, "Why God!? Why!?"


Well he definitely doesn't look healthy. I mean there is healthy skinny and then there's not-healthy skinny. He's starting to look as skinny as some of those unhealthy skinny Hollywood brats. And Apple did admit he was under the weather. Under the weather could be a way of downplaying any illness.


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

BigDL said:


> Also behaviour of not "performing" full keynote speech himself. Curious very curious indeed.


Curious only if you haven't paid attention to Keynotes past. Jobs often hands over large chunks of Keynotes, in particular the WWDC ones, to others.


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

i-rui said:


> i read somewhere that he's switched to a vegan diet so that may be a huge factor in his weight.


He hasn't switched at all. He's always been a vegan (but one who eats fish).


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I think it's time to sell my stock in Apple and just by a Windows machine. This weight loss thing has gotten put of hand. 

Note: Steve Balmer is getting fatter, while Jobs is losing weight. No doubt what is happening here.


----------



## ruffdeezy (Mar 17, 2008)

I sure hope he's ok, he's very inspirational
I just watched some of his keynotes over again last night


----------



## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

Macfury said:


> I think it's time to sell my stock in Apple and just by a Windows machine. This weight loss thing has gotten put of hand.
> 
> Note: Steve Balmer is getting fatter, while Jobs is losing weight. No doubt what is happening here.


Yeah, Balmer is stressed that Apple will take them over, so he's overeating.


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

Kosh said:


> Yeah, Balmer is stressed that Apple will take them over, so he's overeating.


Why, if everyone is so concerned over Jobs losing weight, has no one noticed how much Schiller is "bulking up"?


----------



## Snapple Quaffer (Sep 2, 2003)

ShawnKing said:


> Why, if everyone is so concerned over Jobs losing weight, has no one noticed how much Schiller is "bulking up"?


Because Steve's The Man, man.

Well done _you_, and thanks, for noticing Schiller (who he?) though.


----------



## Snapple Quaffer (Sep 2, 2003)

Macfury said:


> Note: Steve Balmer is getting fatter, while Jobs is losing weight. No doubt what is happening here.


He could be storing up sweat for another inspirational 'Developers'-type performance.

Buy stock in US Mops & Buckets!


----------



## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

Macfury said:


> Note: Steve Balmer is getting fatter, while Jobs is losing weight. No doubt what is happening here.


Yeah, Ballmer is sitting around eating bonbons while M$ IT people are trying to get his camera to connect to his M$ Fi$ta Windoze Ultimate Chief Executive Officer Edition Service Pack 14 machine, which was supposed to be "Fi$ta Capable". Of course, it is hard to go out for a walk when you have to be near a defibrillator.

Jobs may have went too hard core with the vegan thing, perhaps even shunning fruit because as we all know, fruit is not a vegetable. It's good to be thin, but at least have enough of a butt to hold the pants up.


----------



## Mississauga (Oct 27, 2001)

ShawnKing said:


> Why, if everyone is so concerned over Jobs losing weight, has no one noticed how much Schiller is "bulking up"?


Are you suggesting Schiller is eating Jobs?


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

Mississauga said:


> Are you suggesting Schiller is eating Jobs?


He may be the "Dorian Grey" version of Steve Jobs.


----------



## mikelc2 (Mar 3, 2008)

ShawnKing said:


> (Sigh) then don't read my posts.
> So Dr Mike - what you're saying is that because Steve Jobs looks like your grandfather, he's going to die of the same disease? Does that *really* make any sense to you? I look like my father - does that mean I'll die of diabetes?


*EDIT*. I decided to remove this post because it was rather rude, instead of shutting you down as hard as it would have.


----------



## mikelc2 (Mar 3, 2008)

Kosh said:


> Well he definitely doesn't look healthy. I mean there is healthy skinny and then there's not-healthy skinny. He's starting to look as skinny as some of those unhealthy skinny Hollywood brats. And Apple did admit he was under the weather. Under the weather could be a way of downplaying any illness.


I agree, there is a healthy thin, then an unhealthy thin. Especially because he didn't look like that previously. If he had been that thin his whole life, it would be a different story.


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

mikelc2 said:


> I agree, there is a healthy thin, then an unhealthy thin. Especially because he didn't look like that previously. If he had been that thin his whole life, it would be a different story.


As I said, he *has* been thin his entire life.


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

mikelc2 said:


> *EDIT*. I decided to remove this post because it was rather rude, instead of shutting you down as hard as it would have.


LOL Go right ahead. You can't "shut me down", no matter how hard you try.


----------



## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

From AppleInsider:

Steve at MWSF 2007








Steve at MWSF 2008








Steve at WWDC 2008


----------



## Quicksilver G4 (Jan 29, 2008)

Aaaah!


----------



## Greg H (Jan 4, 2002)

Double Aaaaa! Life is tough in the sand box!


----------



## StageDive (Feb 8, 2008)

ShawnKing said:


> And again, why is losing weight a bad thing? Why is skinny a bad thing?


There IS such a thing as being too skinny, you know. You can find cases all over hollywood....


----------



## Quicksilver G4 (Jan 29, 2008)

At this rate, he's going to be extremely thin by the end of the year.


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

StageDive said:


> There IS such a thing as being too skinny, you know.


Yes, there is. But there is *no* indication that Jobs is "too thin". It might be your *opinion* that he is but, when it comes to Jobs' health, your opinion doesn''t carry much water.


----------



## kps (May 4, 2003)

I've never met ShawnKing, but I know *he* could lose a few pounds. lol

Stop it already with the Jobs is dying crap...the guy loses some weight and all hell breaks lose.


----------



## Quicksilver G4 (Jan 29, 2008)

kps said:


> I've never met ShawnKing, but I know *he* could lose a few pounds. lol
> 
> Stop it already with the Jobs is dying crap...the guy loses some weight and all hell breaks lose.


Well he isn't dying, but he's getting closer to his final years of being in this world.


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

kps said:


> I've never met ShawnKing, but I know *he* could lose a few pounds. lol


LOL Hell yes. If Jobs wants some of my blubber, he's welcome to it!


> Stop it already with the Jobs is dying crap...the guy loses some weight and all hell breaks lose.


My point exactly.


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

mikelc2 said:


> I would love to meet you in person so I could sock you in the face.


BTW, you do realize you've just threatened physical violence to someone on a "public" forum, don't you? But I'm sure you're smart enough to come back with a "I was only joking - sorry" line in order to keep yourself out of trouble with not only the Admins of ehMac but also your local authorities....

I await your apology in 3....2....1....


----------



## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

You're an ass, ShawnKing, but you probably can't help it.

As for Steve, if you've seen him in person for the last six years, you probably would have noticed that he has lost a significant amount of weight in the last year or two. If you didn't notice, you should get your eyes checked. These aren't photoshopped pics of models we're talking about. It may be nothing, but even you have to admit that a substantial weight loss _could_ be a symptom of illness. That's all I'm saying.


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

fjnmusic said:


> You're an ass, ShawnKing, but you probably can't help it.


Really? And how do you figure that? Exactly how am I being an ass to you or anyone else?

Some of you seem to revel in name calling but can't quite seem to put your finger on exactly why you feel the need to revert to the grade 9 equivalent of "I'll get you at recess!"

And I love the fact that *I'm* the guy being called names when it's the other folks who are threatening to beat me up. But that's fine - I've been called worse names by better people and if any of you feel the need to try and "sock me in the face", you're welcome to try.

But you won't like how it ends.


> As for Steve, if you've seen him in person for the last six years, you probably would have noticed that he has lost a significant amount of weight in the last year or two.


Yes, he has. I've not said anything different. The reverse is true - I (and many others) have gained a significant amount of weight. Does that mean that we all have cancer or some other deadly disease?


> It may be nothing, but even you have to admit that a substantial weight loss _could_ be a symptom of illness. That's all I'm saying.


It _could_ be a "symptom" of a lot of things. Like simple weight loss.

Why go for the most extreme explanation when the simplest one will do? Occam's Razor makes more sense than "OMG Steve is dying of cancer!"


----------



## StageDive (Feb 8, 2008)

ShawnKing said:


> Yes, there is. But there is *no* indication that Jobs is "too thin". It might be your *opinion* that he is but, when it comes to Jobs' health, your opinion doesn''t carry much water.


Uh.... You do realise I was joking, right?


I don't want to argue with anybody on this forum, I get enough of that in real life.

And yeah, being skinny is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is possible for people to be too skinny.

I'm not trying to fight you, ShawnKing. I'm not trying to fight anybody.


And notice that in this entire post, I haven't mentioned Steve Jobs?

Crap. Well, there goes that.


----------



## mikelc2 (Mar 3, 2008)

ShawnKing said:


> BTW, you do realize you've just threatened physical violence to someone on a "public" forum, don't you? But I'm sure you're smart enough to come back with a "I was only joking - sorry" line in order to keep yourself out of trouble with not only the Admins of ehMac but also your local authorities....
> 
> I await your apology in 3....2....1....


Wishing is different then threatening, my dear high IQ'd Shawn.


----------



## mikelc2 (Mar 3, 2008)

ShawnKing said:


> Really? And how do you figure that? Exactly how am I being an ass to you or anyone else?


The way you present yourself, oh high IQ'd master. Have you ever re-read your posts? Didn't think so, that's why your completely clueless.

Moving right along. I do believe we should all just ignore ShawnKing's posts. They are of little relevance, and they are usually just to get a rise out of someone. There has to be someone like him in this world I suppose.

MOVING RIGHT ALONG PAST SHAWNKING.

Sudden weight loss generally means bad things, unfortunately. I'd like to say he's just toning up, trying to a achieve his optimum weight, but he was there previously. The fact that Steve has had a history of cancer makes me suspect it could possibly be that. He does handle the situation very well though.


----------



## zlinger (Aug 28, 2007)

A most of us know, it is difficult to lose weight and keep it off. 

The only time I physically and visually lost a noticeable amount of weight, in a relatively short period of time, was during a high altitude climb to near 7,000 metres on Aconcagua, in the Andes. It was an arduous 12 days of carrying huge packs, and burning off between 6000 to 8000 calories per day. 

I highly doubt Steve has been hitting the gym lately for some serious cardio sessions... so I hope it is diet, and not an illness.


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

mikelc2 said:


> I do believe we should all just ignore ShawnKing's posts.


LOL You're not doing a very good job of taking your own advice, are you?


> MOVING RIGHT ALONG PAST SHAWNKING.


Buh bye.


> Sudden weight loss generally means bad things, unfortunately.


Occasionally it does. But "generally"? No, it does not. You're making assumptions based on nothing more than a picture or video of Jobs.

Define "sudden weight loss". Do you know how much Jobs weighed, say 6 months ago and how much he weigh now? Do you know how or why he lost the weight?


> I'd like to say he's just toning up, trying to a achieve his optimum weight, but he was there previously.


Again, how do you know that? How do you know what Steve Jobs' optimum weight is?


> The fact that Steve has had a history of cancer makes me suspect it could possibly be that.


Yes, it *could* be. It could be a lot of things. But everyone is assuming it *is* cancer and, except for some weight loss that others seem to think is drastic/sudden/unexplained but which in reality is none of those things, there is absolutely *no* evidence that Jobs' has cancer of any kind.

But you go right ahead and keep making up theories.


----------



## mikelc2 (Mar 3, 2008)

The genius should know that all of this is based on assumptions and observations, not facts.


----------



## kps (May 4, 2003)

mikelc2 said:


> The genius should know that all of this is based on assumptions and observations, not facts.


Umm...that's what he's been saying all along.


----------



## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

ShawnKing said:


> BTW, you do realize you've just threatened physical violence to someone on a "public" forum, don't you? But I'm sure you're smart enough to come back with a "I was only joking - sorry" line in order to keep yourself out of trouble with not only the Admins of ehMac but also your local authorities....
> 
> I await your apology in 3....2....1....


Member put on "vacation" from ehMac.ca.


----------



## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

ShawnKing said:


> He hasn't switched at all. He's always been a vegan (but one who eats fish).


People are allowed and encouraged to define themselves however they like, but really, vegans don't eat fish.


----------



## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

fjnmusic said:


> You're an ass, ShawnKing, but you probably can't help it.


This comment has earned you a nice weekend vacation!

Look people, you can disagree and debate with Shawn or whoever all you like... wouldn't this forum be boring if we all had the same opinion. But if you can't argue without resorting to name calling or threatening to punch someone (Which will earn you an immediate life-time ban from ehMac.ca - we have zero tolerance for threats of violence), then you either need to use the ignore user feature or maybe ehMac.ca isn't the place for you. 

----

Personally, when I saw Steve's appearance at WWDC, I was immediately *VERY* concerned for his health. In my own personal, non-medical opinion, his weight loss looks a lot more than just losing weight via diet, it looks like its related to being ill. The last time I saw Jobs lose a lot of weight, I said to a friend that he didn't look good and might be ill and low and behold months later it was revealed that he was very sick. I really hope I am wrong this time, but he sure does not look healthy to me. 

I'm a huge Steve fanboy and I really hope he is well, I'm just concerned but really the whole thing should be a private matter for Steve so that's all I will say on the subject.


----------



## iJohnHenry (Mar 29, 2008)

Quicksilver G4 said:


> Well he isn't dying, but he's getting closer to his final years of being in this world.


If you have a solution to this problem, I would be welcome to hear it.

Please reply soonest, 'cause i ain't gettin' any younger.

Oh, and a "sock" could also be an article of clothing, say aged several days. That could also be unwelcome. 

beejacon


----------



## zmttoxics (Oct 16, 2007)

Well, I noticed it in the live blog coverage photos during the keynote. I almost couldn't tell it was him. I hope he is well too, someone needs to drive the Snow Leopard...


----------



## cap10subtext (Oct 13, 2005)

HowEver said:


> People are allowed and encouraged to define themselves however they like, but really, vegans don't eat fish.


AKA, Pescetarian, a vegetarian who eats fish.

Rapid weight loss can be cause for concern but it's difficult to drop that much weight due to a sudden onset malady that isn't extremely painful and noticeable (like IBS) which would drive most people to the doctor and lead to behavioral changes that would likely make headlines. Cases of malabsorption are often much more gradual when they don't affect the eating habits or cause severe symptoms. With a combination of things (like a change in diet, a stressful work environment, and the flu) and suddenly one could lose 25 lbs without realizing it, especially since Jobs fits the "coffee and stress diet" profile.

Hopefully he's seeing a doctor, at his age a rapid uncontrolled weight loss could lead to a heart attack. If he's plateaued and eating right it's likely he'll put the weight back on within 6 months as a veg, 3 if he was eating meat.

But Anorexia? Doubtful.

Cancer? Then he looks AMAZING for someone on chemo. He looked healthy to me, just thin.

Too much speculation. It's very clear most people don't know the first thing about their own digestive tracts let alone the nutritional requirements of other people.


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

HowEver said:


> People are allowed and encouraged to define themselves however they like, but really, vegans don't eat fish.


No they don't but I was afraid that using the correct term ("pescetarian") would only serve to confuse things even more.


----------



## maximusbibicus (Feb 25, 2002)

This thread was a painful read. I feel like i have lost something in the process.....and its not weight. 

Can we move on?


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

cap10subtext said:


> Rapid weight loss can be cause for concern but it's difficult to drop that much weight


Again - will all those diagnosing Jobs pleae point to some facts first? How much weight has Jobs lost? Over what period of time?

As none of you in the past have ever weighed Jobs and none of you have seen him on a scale recently, you have *no* idea how much weight he has lost and/or over what period of time.

I agree *sudden* weight loss would be a concern but without knowing the amount of weight Jobs has lost and over what period of time, it can't be characterized as "sudden".

It's like those aunts we all had as kids - we'd see them once every couple of years and they'd always say, "My how you've grown!" And you'd think - DUH! It's been 2 years since you saw me last! I'm a *kid* - of course I've grown!

So - unless someone has real facts regarding Jobs' medical condition, the idle speculation is ill-informed and pointless.


----------



## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

ShawnKing said:


> So - unless someone has real facts regarding Jobs' medical condition, the idle speculation is ill-informed and pointless.


"Ill-informed." Nice.


----------



## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

ShawnKing said:


> Again - will all those diagnosing Jobs pleae point to some facts first? How much weight has Jobs lost? Over what period of time?


I think pretty much everyone realizes that the concerns over his weight loss are purely anecdotal but I think the concerns are real and warranted nonetheless.


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

ehMax said:


> I think the concerns are real and warranted nonetheless.


The concerns are real but, with only very weak anecdotal evidence they are by no means warranted.


----------



## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

_Tacky attachment removed._


----------



## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

ShawnKing said:


> The concerns are real but, with only very weak anecdotal evidence they are by no means warranted.


Well, I'll just say my concerns were warranted the last time I thought he had suddenly lost a lot of weight. I think this time the weight loss is much more dramatic. Last time it was more my own observation, this time stories are being written in several major news outlet like the LA Times and the Wall Street Journal etc.. This is one instance where I really, really hope I am wrong. 

I don't think the anecdotal evidence is that weak. I've seen lots of photos comparing WWDC 2007 vs WWDC 2008 and there is a dramatic difference. I'm at the hospital right now with my daughter and the nurse was in the room. I showed her two photos and her response was, "Wow, that is quite the difference... he doesn't look well."


----------



## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

The Doug said:


> Sorry couldn't resist.


You probably should have.


----------



## screature (May 14, 2007)

ehMax said:


> You probably should have.


I agree very tacky, not funny and you will feel like an a** if it turns out he is actually ill.


----------



## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

Okay, it's gone.


----------



## gastonbuffet (Sep 23, 2004)

The Doug said:


> Okay, it's gone.


WHO??????!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

I too didn't think he looked well, but he's been very thin for a long time now. (Actually think he looked worse in one of the pics from SF this year than he did this week!) Anyway - found this picture from December, and apart from the loss of the facial fuzz, he looks about the same weight then:

Steve Jobs: "I don't give a s--t what I look like"

I certainly hope he's just suffering from a bug - Apple has now said that he was on antibiotics, so it wasn't a virus, though could have been a bacterial infection following a virus.


----------



## Mississauga (Oct 27, 2001)

The Doug said:


> Okay, it's gone.


Well... I appreciated the over-the-top sarcasm. Unfortunately, one requires a rather thick skin to tolerate such humour. Mine's become thicker with age and experiences.

Cheers!


----------



## MissGulch (Jul 20, 2005)

This article  describes how people's digestive systems change after the surgery he had, and that weight loss is common. He may not be sick at all.


----------



## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

Hey kids. I have just returned from a much needed vacation. Weather was great. 

First, I must apologize to honourable citizen Mr. ShawnKing for my direct attack on his character. It was uncalled for. I'm sure that in his heart of hearts, Mr. ShawnKing is as wholesome as a summer breeze. I've also learned that if you're going to criticize someone, best to do it indirectly by inferring things rather than stating them directly. No one needs antagonism. As you have obviously earned the title of honourable citizen, Mr. ShawnKing, I shall follow your example from now on.

In considering the rather gaunt look of Steve Jobs of late (not the late Steve Jobs, please notice), and the suggestion that maybe he was suffering from a virus or some kind of bug, I couldn't help thinking, great, just what Apple needs. Bugs and viruses. Well, let's hope Steve overcomes whatever may be ailing him. Even though it's perfectly OK to be gaunt. If you're a pectarian.


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

fjnmusic said:


> First, I must apologize to honourable citizen Mr. ShawnKing for my direct attack on his character.


Apology accepted.


----------



## Suite Edit (Dec 17, 2003)

hahahaha, fjnmusic!

How droll


----------



## eggman (Jun 24, 2006)

fjnmusic said:


> ... I'm sure that in his heart of hearts, Mr. ShawnKing is as wholesome as a summer breeze.


What would be the metric for this "wholesomeness"?

When I lived on a farm, some of the summer breezes were not only wholesome, but they would also be considered "high in fiber".


----------



## messed_kid (Jun 13, 2007)

BACK ON TOPIC!

*cough*

Just read this on wikipedia:

"Similar concerns followed his appearance during the 2008 WWDC keynote address. One interviewer noted: "[H]is handshake was moderate, his hands felt bony and I was taken aback by his extremely narrow face, slight build, and noticeable shoulder bones through his shirt. Those aren't my impressions looking back in time through the prism of speculation since. That's what I thought then; that these weren't the features of a guy who'd been working out, or on a diet. They seemed far more severe. Sickly."* Apple explained his appearance by saying he had a "common bug" and was taking antibiotics."*


I love this man. If I were more of a Mac nerd, and gay...I would let him have his way with me. :love2: 

Hope he gets better soon.


----------



## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

Taking a look at the video from the most recent conference, Steve seems to be full of the usual vim and vigor when he speaks, although I noticed that much of the presenting is also being done by other people. His old comrade Bill retired recently; is it possible ol' Stevie is planning for his own retirement soon? Funny we don't seem to worry so much about Steve Wozniak's health.


----------



## ScanMan (Sep 11, 2007)

FORTUNE: Apple 2.0 Why does Steve Jobs look so thin? «


----------



## CaptainCode (Jun 4, 2006)

ShawnKing said:


> As I said on Twitter, "Have we become such a nation of fatties? We think Jobs looks "gaunt" when he could just be skinny. What's wrong with skinny?"


I agree. I was actually at the keynote and didn't notice anything at the time. I was only about 20 rows back and didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. The difference between the 2 pictures is also the lighting. He looks a little grayer skinned but that could be due to the lighting. 

I sure hope that he's really OK though but yes, even Steve Jobs is going to die some day.


----------



## CaptainCode (Jun 4, 2006)

BigDL said:


> There is evidence of being below the bottom end of his BMI
> Being below the bottom end of your BMI is not a good idea as a long term strategy. Also behaviour of not "performing" full keynote speech himself. Curious very curious indeed.


BMI is hogwash. If you are overly muscular and work out you can be over your BMI average and based just on that you can be denied certain insurance etc.


----------



## cap10subtext (Oct 13, 2005)

ScanMan said:


> FORTUNE: Apple 2.0 Why does Steve Jobs look so thin? «


That explains it to my satisfaction. I had a portion of each intestine removed and now it's very hard for me to gain weight. I totally sympathize. Be well, Steve.


----------



## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Now Apple is not confirming the state of Steve's health.

AppleInsider | Apple shares beaten late on concerns over CEO's health, guidance



Appleinsider said:


> Apple handily beat expectations for its fiscal third quarter Monday, but investors used a late trading session to punish shares of the Mac and iPhone maker after the company offered conservative forward-looking guidance and refused to comment on the health of chief executive Steve Jobs.
> 
> In a statement following the market's close, Apple said third-quarter profits rose more than 30 percent to $1.07 billion, or $1.19 per diluted share, on revenues of $7.46 billion, driven by record sales of nearly 2.5 million Macs and double-digit iPod growth to more than 11 million units.
> 
> ...


----------



## CdnPhoto (Jan 8, 2006)

Business Week: Cancer has not returned.


----------



## screature (May 14, 2007)

HowEver said:


> "...Steve's health is a private matter."


Uhh, no it isn't not when you are the CEO and guiding star of a publicly traded company. That statement is completely absurd and borders on willful neglect of shareholders interests.

I am afraid to say that my suspicion is now that, like when the Royals say "no comment" it is a tacit admission as to the accuracy of a statement, there is something wrong with Steve and he is not well. 

I believe shareholders and potential investors have reason to be concerned.


----------



## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

To be clear, that's from something I quoted.



screature said:


> Uhh, no it isn't not when you are the CEO and guiding star of a publicly traded company. That statement is completely absurd and borders on willful neglect of shareholders interests.
> 
> I am afraid to say that my suspicion is now that, like when the Royals say "no comment" it is a tacit admission as to the accuracy of a statement, there is something wrong with Steve and he is not well.
> 
> I believe shareholders and potential investors have reason to be concerned.


----------



## screature (May 14, 2007)

HowEver said:


> To be clear, that's from something I quoted.


Yes I know, that is what makes it so irresponsible on the part of Apple.


----------



## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

We are all mortal, even Steve Jobs, although some people do think he walks on water. The fact is that all organizations need a secession plan and Apple is no different. Jobs could, quite naturally, decide to step down for any one of 50 reasons. He would not have to state why. The simple fact he was stepping down/resigning would have an impact. I sincerely hope he is well, but I don't believe he has any obligation to disclose his health if not legally required to. This guy doesn't owe anyone, let alone the many shareholders he has helped enrich over the years.


----------



## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

Secession or succession? I think secession is what Quebec wants to do with Canada.


----------



## screature (May 14, 2007)

used to be jwoodget said:


> We are all mortal, even Steve Jobs, although some people do think he walks on water. The fact is that all organizations need a secession plan and Apple is no different. Jobs could, quite naturally, decide to step down for any one of 50 reasons. He would not have to state why. The simple fact he was stepping down/resigning would have an impact. I sincerely hope he is well, but I don't believe he has any obligation to disclose his health if not legally required to. This guy doesn't owe anyone, let alone the many shareholders he has helped enrich over the years.


Uhh yeah he does, people have invested their money in a company that he runs and is the guiding light for. He holds a unique position at Apple and his health could very well be of material interest for shareholders. You forget that without investors money, Apple would not have had the money to develop the products that made Jobs a billionaire. Additionally as shareholders they collectively own the company and have every right to know the health of their chief employee. As Arik Hesseldahl at BusinessWeek states:

_"*Since Jobs’ ability to do his job would logically be affected if his health took a turn for the worse, and since his role is unique at Apple and when compared to other CEOs in his peer group, that makes his health a material issue about which investors have a legitimate right to be concerned over the long term.* The compensation committee has the right and the duty to ask Jobs directly if there is any reason, be it related to his health or for that matter anything else, that might cause him to be unable to do his job in the foreseeable future. It’s a reasonable and prudent question, and he has the duty to answer them honestly.

Once this conversation has taken place — behind closed doors — the board can and should say two things: First, that it has discussed health matters with the CEO; And second, presuming that this is the case, that it has no concerns about his ability to carry out his duties. That’s it.

Such a statement can be issued in the course of routine SEC filings, say the next 10Q or 10K. It wouldn’t violate the CEO’s privacy in any way, and it would go a long way toward eliminating this lingering shadow of health-related doubt that keeps cropping up every time Steve gets on a stage."_


----------



## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

I fundamentally disagree with those who say Steve's health should be public knowledge.

How's the health of all the OTHER CEO's out there? How's Google doin'? How about IBM? Warren Buffett is like 104 now, doesn't that "alarm" Berkshire Hathaway stockholders? And while we're on the subject of health, Steve Ballmer is a fat high-strung goon who's far more likely to do a Tim Russert on us than Steve Jobs is. Not that WE care, cuz he's not OUR boy ...

If Steve feels he can't handle the job, he'll name a successor and retire. Just like any other CEO. Yes, we think Steve is very special, and he is -- but for cripes' sake, Richard f-ing Branson is just as much the soul of the Virgin empire as Steve is of Apple, and he regularly _throws himself out of planes, shoots himself into space, crashes hot-air balloons_ and heaven knows what other life-risking activities. Who's HIS successor, hmmm?

This entire thread is the product of greedy shareholders who don't really give a flip about human beings IMHO. Steve Jobs WILL leave Apple someday, either voluntarily or in a box. He'll also leave Pixar! And Disney! OH WOE IS US!!

Puh-lease. Be glad we've had him while we've had him, and try to remember that for at least since he's been back at Apple (10 years now!), he's been a GENIUS at long-range planning. There IS a plan for succession; whether it will be as successful as Steve has been is hard to say, but to pretend that Apple will rot like a corpse the moment Steve leaves is to discount all the work of all the talented people who labour there. In particular, such self-centred investors are downright INSULTING people like Tim Cook, who is just as responsible for Apple's success as anyone else there.

Steve is a great lead singer, but there's a whole band behind him who are amazingly tight. Sure Apple-Steve will never be the same as Apple+Steve, and yes maybe Apple will never be this "insanely great" again. That's a risk every company takes every time someone important leaves. It's called life.

In the meantime, treasure each day of Steveness we get. It's a gift.


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

chas_m said:


> How's the health of all the OTHER CEO's out there?


Nobody cares and that's the point.

Apple has set Jobs up as the Rock Star/Celebrity CEO and, like other celebrities, he gives up a certain amount of privacy because of it.

When Jobs' health *materially* affects the company negatively or positively, the company has a duty to keep shareholders informed.

Apple set itself up for this back when Jobs had his "cancer scare" - they weren't completely open and honest about it and now people think they are being lied to.


----------



## screature (May 14, 2007)

ShawnKing said:


> Nobody cares and that's the point.
> 
> Apple has set Jobs up as the Rock Star/Celebrity CEO and, like other celebrities, he gives up a certain amount of privacy because of it.
> 
> ...


Amen brother. Nice to see that some other people around here live in the real world and not some idealized utopia. 

The fact of the matter is that the executive leadership of publicly traded companies work for and are responsible to their shareholders and as such public disclosure is their responsibility. If they didn't want to be subject to public scrutiny then they shouldn't take their companies public and ask for people to invest their hard earned money in their company. 

Investing is a risk, a huge risk and people don't want to loose what they had to work very hard to invest in the first place. To offset that risk the shareholder has every right to know *every* internal factor that may represent a material threat to their investment. Just ask any investor in Enron or Nortel (to site just two examples) how it feels to be screwed over by a company that was less than forthcoming (lied to) about the real state of affairs of the company.

Public disclosure isn't about greed it is about saving your a** from potential financial ruin by those to whom you have given your hard earned money to help build a company. Obviously a shareholder hopes for a return on their investment, what would be the point otherwise, but they have every right to expect from the company full disclosure of *any* known information that may materially impact their investment.

Obviously people care about the health and well being of Steve Jobs as a human being, to suggest that it is again just a matter of greed as reason for their concern is an insult to their humanity and pure pretense on the part of those who suggest they don't really give a damn other than how it may affect their investment. I would say that for the majority of investors in Apple they care a great deal about the well being of the *man* Steve Jobs and hope for him to be well not because of what it may mean for their investment but because they greatly admire and respect him.

The fact remains however that the health of Steve Jobs the *CEO* of Apple is going to impact the share value of Apple and as such if his health is known to be poor then the shareholder has a right to know in order to protect themselves. We aren't talking about someday he is going to leave or he may get hit by a bus or a meteorite, we are talking about whether it is a known fact that he is in poor health *now* and if that information is being withheld. 

This isn't about some pseudo-philosophical outlook that "hey life is a risk, get used to it". This is about being responsible with knowledge that you have that you know will positively or negatively affect those to whom it is your duty to provide that information to. It is thousands of real people's lives that will be affected by withholding this kind of information. So lets get real and look at what really is at stake and what is worth more, the so called privacy of a very public man or the potentially millions of dollars to be lost by thousands of shareholders. Hmm?


----------



## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

For the record, I'm not a greedy shareholder. I imagine Steve has already written his will and got a good life insurance package. Does he have a family? Just wondering. I'm sure that between Apple and Pixar there's some great minds who can fill in. But we must treasure Steve's presence will he is here among us. Even JC had to leave this plane of existence at some point.


----------



## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

On the other hand…



chas_m said:


> Steve is a great lead singer, but there's a whole band behind him who are amazingly tight…


If Roth ain't in it, I don't care about Van Halen and neither do you.

– David Lee Roth


----------



## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

ShawnKing said:


> Nobody cares and that's the point.


Only that's not true. Steve Jobs is a pretty amazing CEO, but he's hardly the only "rock star" CEO and he's hardly the only person who's sudden death would "materially impact" the company's performance. Saying otherwise is just ridiculous.



> When Jobs' health *materially* affects the company negatively or positively, the company has a duty to keep shareholders informed.


1. And who's saying they haven't done this already? If there's nothing to worry about long-term, which is what they've said, then they should be taken at their word unless there's evidence to the contrary. Looking a little gaunt doesn't cut it -- the man has a vegan diet that would shed 30kg off me like a shot if I tried it.

2. Got a citation of law on that?



> Apple set itself up for this back when Jobs had his "cancer scare" - they weren't completely open and honest about it and now people think they are being lied to.


And there's the nub of the argument -- it's all about perceptions of what OTHER people (who aren't in any position to actually know) think. And imaginary "rights" that don't exist.


----------



## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

screature said:


> To offset that risk the shareholder has every right to know *every* internal factor that may represent a material threat to their investment.


Speaking of living in an idealised utopia ...

If what you said above were true, Apple would have to turn over every planned product/service idea, at every stage of development, to shareholders.

Um, no.



> Just ask any investor in Enron or Nortel (to site just two examples) how it feels to be screwed over by a company that was less than forthcoming (lied to) about the real state of affairs of the company.


Again, in reality-land where I live, the recourse for such acts is judicial relief. There are laws regarding fiduciary responsibility, but nothing about the personal health and welfare of board members, CEOs or other employees. Apple is WELL aware of its fiduciary responsibilities (particularly after that back-dating business), and if there were something to tell along those lines, they would say so in their SEC filings.

The fact is that Apple _can_ carry on as a company post-Steve; indeed, his main job at Apple hasn't been to personally design iPods and handle email from irate customers as many here seem to believe: his main job was, is and will be to build the infrastructure of a successful company. As Doug Adams might say, he is Deep Thought, and his job is to built the computer that will come after him.

It does a real disservice (or just plain "diss") to the incredibly talented team Jobs put together to think that Apple would fold like a newbie poker player if he ever left us under surprising circumstances. As I said before, will Apple ever have a leader as amazingly great as Steve? Who knows? It's hard to find all that talent in ONE person. But could a handful of talented people like Tim Cook, Jonathan Ive, Avi Tavanian (yes I know he's not there now, but he could be brought back), and perhaps Scott Forstall as the "rockstar" keep things interesting, the company innovating, and sales healthy?

Yes.



> Obviously people care about the health and well being of Steve Jobs as a human being, to suggest that it is again just a matter of greed as reason for their concern is an insult to their humanity and pure pretense on the part of those who suggest they don't really give a damn other than how it may affect their investment.


You mean like you, Mr. I-Have-A-Right-To-Know-ANYTHING-That-May-Impact-My-Investment?



> The fact remains however that the health of Steve Jobs the *CEO* of Apple is going to impact the share value of Apple


Temporarily, quite likely. Long-term, who can say? Not you, that's for sure.



> we are talking about whether it is a known fact that he is in poor health *now* and if that information is being withheld.


But we DON'T know this. Weight loss != poor health. He could have simply changed his diet (he is known for experimenting in this area). Until there's some further evidence that he's in declining health, it's all pure speculation. The BoD of Apple doesn't see a problem. They would know.

Unless the BoD of Apple has suddenly changed to comprise Bush Administration members, I think we have to take their word on it without compelling evidence to the contrary.

Bottom line: I guess we'll find out in January.


----------



## Mississauga (Oct 27, 2001)

Steve Jobs is "special".


----------



## screature (May 14, 2007)

chas_m said:


> You mean like you, Mr. I-Have-A-Right-To-Know-ANYTHING-That-May-Impact-My-Investment?


Uhm, never said *my* investment, I don`t own Apple shares.  But I have been burned by less than forth coming corporate execs in the past who seem to think they rule a fifdom with complete disregard for their shareholders.



chas_m said:


> Temporarily, quite likely. Long-term, who can say? Not you, that's for sure.


Who said anything about a time frame, a loss is a loss to those who don't have the time to wait for the stock to come back. 

Sure Nortel could go back up to $100/share, maybe in another 20 years, a little late for those who lost their shirts and were already in retirement. 

As for my prowess at forecasting the future, it is probably about as good as yours, so keep your condescension to yourself please.




chas_m said:


> But we DON'T know this. Weight loss != poor health. He could have simply changed his diet (he is known for experimenting in this area). Until there's some further evidence that he's in declining health, it's all pure speculation. The BoD of Apple doesn't see a problem. They would know.


Exactly, we don't know this and it is speculation and that is the problem. It isn't a matter of simply having dropped a couple of pounds, he is gaunt and doesn't look well, clearly it is quite noticeable as it is his appearance that raised the concerns in the first place.

"The BoD doesn't see a problem. They would know". Would they? I thought it was a private matter.  

The point here is the refusal to answer a plain simple question. Is he *known* to be ill or is he not? A yes or no will do, not too difficult. It is the evasion of an answer that keeps the speculation going and makes one tend to believe that where there is smoke there is fire.


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

chas_m said:


> Only that's not true.


Just cause you say it's not doesn't make it so.


> Steve Jobs is a pretty amazing CEO, but he's hardly the only "rock star" CEO


Name another. Name another CEO who gets his keynote addresses covered by the mainstream media on a *regular* basis. Name another who's *every* product introduction is hailed by that same media...


> and he's hardly the only person who's sudden death would "materially impact" the company's performance. Saying otherwise is just ridiculous.


No one said any such thing.


> If there's nothing to worry about long-term, which is what they've said


Apple has *not* said that. All Apple has said is his health is a "private matter".


> then they should be taken at their word unless there's evidence to the contrary.


There is - they've hidden his health from investors, analysts and the media in the past.

Bottom line is the questions regarding Steve Jobs' health *do* affect the "health" of the company. Those questions should be answered openly and honestly. If Jobs is healthy, why not simply say so? Why hide behind the BS of "it's a private matter"? Apple has done this in the past (when Jobs' wife was last pregnant) and the stock took huge hits for it then too. I was also pilloried for speaking out about that incident. 

Contrary to popular believe, Steve Jobs is *not* The Second Coming of anything. But he *is* crucially important to Apple and its share price. As a stockholder, you have a right to know how Jobs' health affects the company and, by extension, the value of your stock portfolio.


----------



## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Shawn: are you feeling okay?

I'm fine, thanks.


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

HowEver said:


> Shawn: are you feeling okay?


What do you care - you don't own stock in me...


----------



## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

ShawnKing said:


> What do you care - you don't own stock in me...


And how can _you_ say _that_? You're not the boss of me.


----------



## Mississauga (Oct 27, 2001)

Now, you kids behave yourselves! Don't make me turn this thing around and head straight home!!!


----------



## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

ShawnKing said:


> What do you care - you don't own stock in me...


I think I have right to know the health of all posters on ehMac.


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

ehMax said:


> I think I have right to know the health of all posters on ehMac.


I have no problem with that. You buy stock in Shawn King and I'll happily give you updates every time there's undigested corn in my stool...


----------



## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

ehMax said:


> I think I have right to know the health of all posters on ehMac.


BTW, I had an MRI on my left knee yesterday (those damn things are *loud*!) and am going to the doctor tomorrow morning....

That's just the tease. Buy stock in Shawn King and there will be *lots* more where that came from!


----------



## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

ehMax said:


> I think I have right to know the health of all posters on ehMac.


Good point, Mr. Mayor, since you have a vested interest in all of us. For the record, I'm not as fit as a fiddle as I used to be, but I'm working on it.


----------



## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

Flash forward two and a half years later, and it seems the same speculation is alive and well. Steve Jobs is still integral to Apple's success, even moreso perhaps, and his gaunt appearance and leave of absence has us fearing the worst. Except that now we know he can phone it in and still call the shots. How much disclosure is legally required? He does appear to tell us the whole story when he feels the time is right. Perhaps we need to view the secrecy much the same way as we see the strategic timing of Apple product launches; why tell unless there is something to tell?


----------

