# Bell Strike info.



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Subject: Bell strike info.

1. Entourage is no longer Entourage, it's called Subco now.

2. Strike apparently about obtaining Bell pension and benefits, they are 
getting resistence from Bell management and the Bell union.

3. During a fire alarm test on Friday, striking Subco workers inserted 
themselves between Bell staff who had evacuated building and the 
building. This building is on Simcoe, and houses the Test Board. Since 
no one will cross picket lines, Bell Ontario was effectively shut down 
for 3 hours.

4. New residential customers are being told not to expect their phones 
installed until early June.

5. Talks resume Monday.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

my business is moving this month, and they couldn't get it together weeks in advance to give me a day. So me and several others are ditching them for another business service.
Buh bye Bell.


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## iPetie (Nov 25, 2003)

Die Bell Die!!!
Childish, I know but Bell does evoke some bizarre hatred from deep within my soul.


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## dthompson101 (Jan 16, 2001)

Yeah its a total shame in this country that we don't have more competition.

Bell is a hazzard of a company with too many of their claws into too much different business models but they own all the phone lines so everyone is at their mercy. They are expensive, slow, and basically offer crappy support and service when you need it!

Rogers; Well I have a MASSIVE hatred for the company and how they have 1 sidedly man handlded the CRTC into doing whatever whining Ted wants them to do...Hello cable?? Has anyone seen another cable company in Toronto? Nope doens't exist. I believe thats called a monopoly! They bought FIDO and have gone against the contractual agreements and changed everything that they said they wouldn't. Personally I hope ted and co go belly up as I have no respect for them!!!

Telus...well they have good service but they are wholly American owned and while I praise them for running their own lines now, I don't like that they are American owned.

The rest of the small players don't have either the infastructure to run their own business solely and must rely on Bell in order to least the lines, and centres for everything else since Telus does not lease their lines out....right now.

It would be nice to see more competition here in Canada and not eliminated as is happening quickly.


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## a7mc (Dec 30, 2002)

*Voip*

I feel so much better with my decision to go to Voice Over IP now. No more Bell BS anymore. Plus I get 3 times the services at 1/3 the price! I love my Yak.ca service! 

A7


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## darkscot (Nov 13, 2003)

my brother's business is getting affected by this strike as well. He just moved elsewhere in same area, now no phone. Anyone had any experience with VoIP thru a satellite internet connection?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

dthompson101 said:


> Telus...well they have good service but they are wholly American owned and while I praise them for running their own lines now, I don't like that they are American owned.


You sir are dead wrong. Telus is a 100% Canadian owned company:

http://www.branhamgroup.com/branham300/2001/details.php?company_ID=274

That is one reason I ONLY use Telus.


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## depmode101 (Sep 4, 2002)

> Rogers; Well I have a MASSIVE hatred for the company and how they have 1 sidedly man handlded the CRTC into doing whatever whining Ted wants them to do...Hello cable?? Has anyone seen another cable company in Toronto? Nope doens't exist. I believe thats called a monopoly! They bought FIDO and have gone against the contractual agreements and changed everything that they said they wouldn't. Personally I hope ted and co go belly up as I have no respect for them!!


theyre are other companies offering television service in toronto - 
bell expressview and star choice - 

as far as the FIDO comment - from what ive seen, rogers says they will honour any of the existing contracts, but have gotten rid of some of the offers that Fido was offering, that they didnt like - i.e. cityfido - $45 unlimited cell service - they have added in a cap - offering unlimited anytime cell service is very costly - no cell company in canada offers this.

p.s. i hope the company you work for goes belly up as well - (what a stupid comment)


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## Loafer (Jan 7, 2004)

dthompson101 said:


> They bought FIDO and have gone against the contractual agreements and changed everything that they said they wouldn't.


crap!......I have a Fido phone.....I hate Rogers, If I wasn't tied into them for a year I would ditch it in a 2nd. The wife and I are seriously thinking about ditching cable altogether.


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## iPetie (Nov 25, 2003)

SINC said:


> You sir are dead wrong. Telus is a 100% Canadian owned company:
> 
> http://www.branhamgroup.com/branham300/2001/details.php?company_ID=274
> 
> That is one reason I ONLY use Telus.


The confusion may lie in the fact that Telus sold the Directory business to Verizon, who then sold it to Bain Capital. The deals have been large and garnered much press. 
Telus, the Phone Company is 100% Canadian owned. My experience with Telus when we lived in Cowtown was always quite good, but I understand they are now rated as on of the worst customer service companies going.

As for Rogers, much better than Bell in my experience. We use Vonage for Phone service exclusively.

There is not a penny from this house going to any BCE related company, PERIOD. Unless, of course you can tag me for watching some of their TV channels or perusing the Globe


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## dthompson101 (Jan 16, 2001)

depmode101 said:


> theyre are other companies offering television service in toronto -
> bell expressview and star choice


right, I forgot that Bell Expressview is really a CABLE SYSTEM. My appologies. I think I will sign up for the new star choice cable system.....

Yes there are other companies offering television, but not cable television. Sorry, its called a monopoly by them and I don't like it for one.

As for you hoping my company goes out of business, I am not buying up smaller companies, changing their policies and forcing increasingly high prices for the same or less service.

Sorry but Rogers is axed from my place eternally. As soon as I can "opt" out of my Fido plan without paying them any more money I will. Whether or not a carrier can offer the service with unlimited calls, Rogers bought them, and I was already signed into the agreement which offered this.

I will now lose 6 months out of the original contract I am in. If I in turn go to Fido and try and "opt" out of my contractual agreement I will be hit with a fine for getting out of it early. I hate the fact that they can change whatever they want whenever they want and not take a penalty but when the customer tries to get out of it we get nailed with fines and charges...


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

I prefer Rogers over Bell. Rogers doesn't charge for repairs and often does installs for free (at least when moving). Bell charges an arm and a leg for everything and I always seem to have trouble with my phone line (I had to have it repaired twice after I moved in 2 years ago and it's not working this week). Rogers seems to work all the time and if I do have a problem I can usually get a repairman out free of charge to fix within a day. Bell, well, you might get it fixed that week if your lucky. The only thing I hate about Rogers is they seem to find ways to bill you additional money without really giving you more services.


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## autopilot (Dec 2, 2004)

bell's on strike? where the hell have i been???

hahaha!


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## winwintoo (Nov 9, 2004)

dthompson101 said:


> Telus...well they have good service but they are wholly American owned and while I praise them for running their own lines now, I don't like that they are American owned.


A bit of history: Not long after A.G.Bell shouted "Mr. Watson, come here, I want you!" into his new invention, Alberta Government Telephones was formed in Alberta - _Canada_ 

Over the years, Alberta Government Telephones or AGT as they became known, provided long distance service to Alberta residence and when technology eliminated the need for manually operated switchboards, the local telephone companies consolidated into AGT with the exception of Edmonton Telephones which continued to provide local service in the city of Edmonton.

In 1990, the Alberta government decided to sell shares in AGT to the public and the name of the company was changed to Telus. Since then, Telus has expanded into the rest of Canada adding to their assets by purchasing the assets of other telcos.

I worked for AGT for several years in the early 60s (at least I think I did - the 60s were such a blur  ) 

I also worked for Bell in Toronto at one time. 

Working for a telco is not like any other job. In the old days, you started there when you were 17 and worked your 40 years, steadily moving up in the ranks until you retired with a full pension. Sure things changed, but the company sent you away for a week of training on the new equipment and that was it.

Now, things are moving so fast, even the young turks with PHDs from MIT, don't have a clue what's going on a week later. Everybody is scared of their job. There are still lots of old guys who started back when you could strap on the climbing spikes right out of high school and they can see that they won't make it to retirement - the unease ripples through the whole company. It's a culture that's not used to changing jobs.

I'm sure glad I'm retired and out of that rat race.

Margaret


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## thatcomputerguy (Jan 13, 2005)

sorry everyone who likes rogers but i've got to say i got sick of the crappy cel phone service and the intermittent high speed service (it sure is fast when it works, but it just doesn't work consistently) so i switched my cel phones to bell and got bell high speed and can't complain at all with either service. and heck, my cel phones are much cheaper than what i paid with rogers.


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## doublejack (Apr 21, 2005)

*Info About Bell Strike!!!*

EDITED- Tentative Agreement


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Bell has lost me and 4 other businesses due to their refusal to be frank about the situation. I've lost thousands of dollars. Yesterday, they had me (day 3) wait from 8 AM until 8 PM in the office assuring me every 3 hours that a tech was indeed on his way. Today is day 4. 

I wouldn't deal with bell again if I had to use two cans and a string.
Yes there are other options and many of us are looking into them.

You deserve to be paid a competitive rate. Good luck.


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## enaj (Aug 26, 2004)

Bell only answer to Shareholders - not customers (that's what voicemail if for)


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> Save Mexico, in my opinion we are the hardest working and lowest-paid telephone company technicians in North America.


if my entourage installation is any indication, your installers are the most arrogant, lazy, sloppy technicians in the world

i have had so many problems with entourage and after my almost 1 year of constant problems, bad install, arrogant techs., sloppy work, i have no pity whatsoever for entourage techs. nor bell for that matter

and to top it all off, they keep sending the same entourage moron to fix the problems he already screwed up and he doesn't even apologize for making mistakes
he's come back half a dozen times so far to fix my telephone problems
i keep asking they not send the same idiot
they promise he won't come back, but instead send the same idiot

i don't know what planet you live on, but the entourage tech. are horrible and have made my life miserable

hard working? please, i might start laughing too hard
perhaps if entourage tech. were only paid in full for CORRRECT installations and repairs, we might, just might see an increase in the performance
other than that, they are just lazy, pissed off people who don't want to work and have no consideration for the end user of the telephone lines they install

do your job and do it well, and you would get respect from me
F*ck over my installation so badly that i need 6 visits and i have no patience nor pity

if life is really so bad, quit and start your own business, then see how "great" life is
by the way, you can't "go on strike" when you run your own business and no union, no benefits, nada, zero, zip
and if your customer doesn't like your work YOU DON'T GET PAID
so you HAVE to do good work in order to get paid

i think all entourage people should be fired and be taught to say; "do you want fries with that?"

- one pissed of bell/entourage customer


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## thatcomputerguy (Jan 13, 2005)

Yikes - guess you got a different guy than we had. We had a couple of problems with our high speed at work, which the entourage tech came out and got all fixed up for us without too much trouble, and managed to do it right the first time. They are not all lazy morons. Maybe a lot of them are, but it would be best if they were weeded out without firing all the ones who do actually know what they are doing as well.

my 2 cents.


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## autopilot (Dec 2, 2004)

i don't pretend to know the first thing about a technician's job, but i do know this: most of us in the "real world" do not have the protection of a union. we get paid based on our performance. if we think we're being paid unfairly, we take steps to resolve the situation. like find another job.

please take responsibility for your own work situation. finding sympathy for unions is hard going these days.


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

dthompson101 said:


> Sorry but Rogers is axed from my place eternally. As soon as I can "opt" out of my Fido plan without paying them any more money I will. Whether or not a carrier can offer the service with unlimited calls, Rogers bought them, and I was already signed into the agreement which offered this.


I'm right with you Rogers is not allowed in my house with one exception and that is my Fido phone but as soon as they screw with that *'Good Bye'* as for TV I have Dishnetwork with a powered antenna for local channels, internet I have DSL from sympatico. Bell in my experience has been the least problematic of the 2 evils so I will take them over Robers any day but if there is a competing 3rd and 4th company as a choice out there I will research them out.

Laterz


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## doublejack (Apr 21, 2005)

EDITED - Tentative Agreement



MACSPECTRUM said:


> if my entourage installation is any indication, your installers are the most arrogant, lazy, sloppy technicians in the world
> 
> i have had so many problems with entourage and after my almost 1 year of constant problems, bad install, arrogant techs., sloppy work, i have no pity whatsoever for entourage techs. nor bell for that matter
> 
> ...


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## thatcomputerguy (Jan 13, 2005)

Doublejack, i must applaud you for not taking the comments in this thread personally and not lashing out at anyone for speaking their mind, after all that's what these forums are for.

I firmly believe there are competent and incompetent people at Bell, as with any company regardless of size. i can only hope that the morons do leave or are let go. They can flip burgers for a living.


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

> if my entourage installation is any indication, your installers are the most arrogant, lazy, sloppy technicians in the world


lol, so true. i won't start ranting here mostly because i've done it so many times now but i found everyone at bell to be of the subnormal human variety. it's almost like the HR there _looks_ for that in job candidates.
i'm sick of bell's bull****. (not honouring appointments, taking 5 trips to hook up a simple residential line, the guy that did show up didn't know what he was doing, cashing a cheque from me for $115, not crediting my account even when the photocopy of the cheque was faxed to 4 different fax numbers at their request, billing my account for unauthorized work after a neighbor ran over a line that was not properly buried, errors on the bill every other month etc etc etc etc etc).

my last two years worth of dealings with bell have been hell.

bell is a lousy company with low quality employees and their position in the marketplace is entirely undeserved.

i will be going voip sometime this year.


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

TroutMaskReplica said:


> bell is a lousy company with low quality employees and their position in the marketplace is entirely undeserved.


I wouldn't say they are all low quality employees I have 1 friend that works at Sympatico he's a high level tech. The guy knows his stuff man he sets up the dslams, Cysco routers these are pieces of equipment that range from the thousands to millions of dollars and to have the required knowledge to work on them is probably a above a low quality employee. Wich reminds me the reason why I like Sympatico I have his personal cell number so I have 24 hour no BS tech support for my Internet 

Laterz


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## namekyd (May 11, 2005)

*Bell is not on strike*

Ok guys firstly I'm a Bell employee! I'm one of the people you speak to when you call 310-BELL. I read some of the threads here and I wanted to comment if I may.

Firstly BELL is not on strike. Yeah the situation revolves around our services and of course it effects you guys (Our customers) but it is Entourage that is on strike not us! Each and every BELL emplyee is currently working their jobs to the best of their abilities. 

Secondly there is no Phone Monopoly in Ontario! There are various options for your phone service but it is up to you to look around and try and find them. If they are not readily available in your area that is not BELL imposing a Monopoly it is simply a case where the others have not yet invested in your business. I assure you that the CRTC has opened up the market to you as a consumer! I am constantly handcuffed by the tariff regulations they put in place so trust me BELL IS NOT A MONOPOLY!!!! I mean BELL only invented the damn telephone but we are the evil empire when everyone else wants a piece of the pie?? Come on guys! There are certainly more options for your phone then there are for your Hydro for instance! 

It's been a tough few months and we really would like this to be resolved as much as any of you. I personally appolagize for the fact that this has effected you all. If you could see how hard we really are working you might be able to better understand but of course it makes no difference. Our appolagies to you all.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

That's fine, but one of the things Bell fails to fathom is, as a customer, I don't give a rats ass WHO is on strike, as far as I'm concerned, Bell cannot provide the service, and that to me as a customer means Bell is on strike. I am sick and tired of Bell pulling the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing. Bell is the company I was dealing with and I don't want to hear Bell's pathetic and lame excuses that it's not their fault.


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## thatcomputerguy (Jan 13, 2005)

i agree - bell/entourage who cares what you call it. all i want to to be able to get my father-in-law's bell dsl set-up for him. the supposed install date was a couple of weeks ago and the only answer i get from BELL is that they will call me when it is connected. nice. thanks a lot. (that would be sarcasm in case you couldn't tell...)


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

thatcomputerguy said:


> i agree - bell/entourage who cares what you call it. all i want to to be able to get my father-in-law's bell dsl set-up for him. the supposed install date was a couple of weeks ago and the only answer i get from BELL is that they will call me when it is connected. nice. thanks a lot. (that would be sarcasm in case you couldn't tell...)


Have you received the install package from Bell yet? if you have give it a try it might be hooked up already this happened to me at my parents 3 years ago hooked them up with DSL they told me the same thing that they woulc call when it was ready so I went ahead and hooked it all up and bingo I was able to surf the net. 

Laterz


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## namekyd (May 11, 2005)

Unless you are paying for an pro install or are having a jack installed then you should not need a technition for your service. Of course if you are waiting for you phone line to be activated then your wait is unfortunetly due to circumstance. Have you called for tech support at 310-SURF?? They may be able to help you. I wish there was more that could be done. Hopefully we'll get you up and going soon enough. 

P.S

"bell/entourage who cares what you call it." 

Ok but try to understand that it's a different company. Just like Burger King and McDonalds are not the same. I know this doesn't help but some of us here at Bell actually care and are trying to help you out. Either way I know you are frustraited.


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## thatcomputerguy (Jan 13, 2005)

namekyd said:


> Unless you are paying for an pro install or are having a jack installed then you should not need a technition for your service. Of course if you are waiting for you phone line to be activated then your wait is unfortunetly due to circumstance. Have you called for tech support at 310-SURF?? They may be able to help you. I wish there was more that could be done. Hopefully we'll get you up and going soon enough.
> 
> P.S
> 
> ...


we're waiting for the dsl service to be turned on for his phone number. we spoke to bell - they are the ones who said wait for a phone call. i've checked a couple of times and no line sync yet, no dsl service.

as an aside - to compare bell and entourage to burger king and mcdonalds is a little unfair. mcdonalds and burger king are not owned by the same company. and the point is, the customer doesn't call entourage, we call BELL. we pay our bill to BELL, we call BELL to set up the new DSL service. we just want BELL to get our service hooked up. i don't care what you call the division of bell who does it.


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## doublejack (Apr 21, 2005)

EDITED - Tentative Agreement


namekyd said:


> Ok guys firstly I'm a Bell employee! I'm one of the people you speak to when you call 310-BELL. I read some of the threads here and I wanted to comment if I may.
> 
> Firstly BELL is not on strike. Yeah the situation revolves around our services and of course it effects you guys (Our customers) but it is Entourage that is on strike not us! Each and every BELL emplyee is currently working their jobs to the best of their abilities.
> 
> ...


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## namekyd (May 11, 2005)

Hey listen!

You got me all wrong here! First of all the CTEA is in support of your cause! Despite the fact that the general pubilc honks their horns in support of you and go home and rip our heads off in the next breath. Why should I appolagize that Bell does not bargain in good faith with you? That seems somewhat unfair don't you agree? I am not involved in this process but who do you think takes the heat for it from the customers? If you want my support then take it as this. I have lost well over $1000 in SBP payouts since this strike began. As a CTEA member I have agreed to not grieve this "unfortunate" situation as to avoid putting added pressure on you and your fellow techs so that you may have the bargaining room you need. I'm slightly insulted by your assertion that we are not in support of your cause! I'm just here to tell our customers that there is still a hard working group of people that are here trying to get something done for them! There needs to be an industry to return to when you have finally reached a fair agreement. 

"We are going to show Bell once and for all who really does the brunt of the work that has allowed them to reach record profits year-after-year."

Come on man! When you say things like this you're just insulting me! Who do you think sells the products that keep you and me working? And your note of Scabs being paid $25 an hour????? I'm not making that kind of money! Anyway, I don't dispute your cause for even one second! But that doesn't mean that I can't still try and reassure my customers that something is getting done. I get called a scab when I cross the picket line but if I don't I can find myself a new job! So try to see things from our perspective for just a second and realise that we have equal obligation to you as we do to our customers. My post was not geared twards you it was geared twards our customers and their concerns! I don't care what anyone says some of us are here to help! Even if you choose to not believe it!


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> I'm just here to tell our customers that there is still a hard working group of people that are here trying to get something done for them!


the words "Bell" and "hard working" should never be in the same sentence.
The ONLY thing Bell does well is collect money.

When I find that I can get other land line service where I live, I will say good bye to all my Bell services forever.
It took my 5 hours today with Bell to get a "White Pages" listing.
yeah, that's Bell service for ya

When I lived in Toronto and was with Rogers tv and internet, they were better than Bell. Bell CAN do better. They used to. They choose NOT TO.

ergo, Bell is evil


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## doublejack (Apr 21, 2005)

namekyd said:


> Hey listen!
> 
> If you want my support then take it as this. I have lost well over $1000 in SBP payouts since this strike began. As a CTEA member I have agreed to not grieve this "unfortunate" situation as to avoid putting added pressure on you and your fellow techs so that you may have the bargaining room you need.
> 
> Come on man! When you say things like this you're just insulting me! Who do you think sells the products that keep you and me working?


You should file your grievance asap. What we need is pressure. You are only helping the company when you stay silent about an issue that affects your livleyhood.

Also while you are at it you should file a grievance for the millions of dollars in sales that Subco (formerly Entourage) does every year. For a couple of years now they have introduced sales to technicians and we now sell everything from wirecare to satelite dishes. They have recently expanded our sales program and plan to roll out new sales initiatives. I personally refuse to sell, as do many techs because I was hired to fix lines. If I wanted to sell phones I would be working at the Bell World store. However, this is a trend that directly effects you and your co-workers since they will cut back on your workload.

EDITED - Tentative Agreement


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## doublejack (Apr 21, 2005)

namekyd said:


> And your note of Scabs being paid $25 an hour????? I'm not making that kind of money! Anyway, I don't dispute your cause for even one second! But that doesn't mean that I can't still try and reassure my customers that something is getting done. I get called a scab when I cross the picket line but if I don't I can find myself a new job!


EDITED - Tentative Agreement


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

i see the CRTC just ruled to not regulate VOIP in any way, shape, or form.

buh bye bell et al! don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out ....


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

instead of striking, bell employees and subcontractors should use the limited time they have left to look for another line of work:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050513.gttalk0513/BNStory/Technology/


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## thatcomputerguy (Jan 13, 2005)

TroutMaskReplica said:


> instead of striking, bell employees and subcontractors should use the limited time they have left to look for another line of work:
> 
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050513.gttalk0513/BNStory/Technology/


not everybody has high speed internet, and i definitely can't see granma using VOIP - "here granma, you need a computer to use your phone now"

i think bell has a few more years left, but their customer base will begin to shrink.


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

thatcomputerguy said:


> not everybody has high speed internet, and i definitely can't see granma using VOIP - "here granma, you need a computer to use your phone now"
> 
> i think bell has a few more years left, but their customer base will begin to shrink.


You would be surprised at what a grandma is doing nowadays my mom for example uses her computer everyday for email, and to boot she uses MSN Messenger for video conferecing with our family back in Europe and she figured it all out with only a bit of help from myself and the fact that she is doing all this on a WinXP machine is even more impressive to me.

Laterz


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## thatcomputerguy (Jan 13, 2005)

you've got to wonder is she is the exception or the rule though. for instance, neither my parents nor my in-laws have high speed internet and neither can operate a computer very well either. both sets would be lost with a VOIP phone. they have enough trouble with the simple computer tasks they do now.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

thatcomputerguy said:


> not everybody has high speed internet, and i definitely can't see granma using VOIP - "here granma, you need a computer to use your phone now"
> 
> i think bell has a few more years left, but their customer base will begin to shrink.


but if you told grandma that if she learned to use this "device" her grandkids would call her almost everyday, it might be a different story

i can see the advert now
fade in to lonely grandma in rocking chair looking at blank tv
VOIP phone rings and grandma bursts into a big smile; "Hi there!! You remembered your grandma."
Kids: "Grandma, we love talking to you now that Daddy got us this new phone. Talking to you is FREE! No more long distance charges!"

Grandma smiles. "If only your grandfather was alive to see this."

fade to black, company logo

tagline: "VOIP - isn't grandma worth $40 a month?"


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## thatcomputerguy (Jan 13, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> but if you told grandma that if she learned to use this "device" her grandkids would call her almost everyday, it might be a different story
> 
> i can see the advert now
> fade in to lonely grandma in rocking chair looking at blank tv
> ...


or in my case...

the voip never rings because granma and granpa turned off the computer to save hydro.


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## doublejack (Apr 21, 2005)

Edited - Tentative Agreement


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

> the voip never rings because granma and granpa turned off the computer to save hydro.


as doublejack suggests, the voip unit sits between the wall connection and the router - the computer doesn't have anything to do with it as i understand it.


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## thatcomputerguy (Jan 13, 2005)

doublejack said:


> Guys...the voip Rogers is introducing does not require a computer. You just plug your phone into the box or the tech will wire it to every existing jack in your house. Therefore you need no computer knowledge whatsoever to use it. Even comes with a battery-back-up in the unlikely event of a blackout.
> 
> Granted the public will initially hesitate switching their reliable Bell line; over time Rogers will grow to be a real competitor offering a comparable product. Now about comparable service...that remains to be seen.


it better have a battery backup - the way the power goes out around here in the late summer, i'd hate to be phoneless.

it'll all come down to cost - like everything. if it cost too much to change over there will be a lot of resistance. if it's cheap and it works, more people will switch over. not me, personally, because i don't like rogers, but i'm sure there will be a bunch of people who are sick of bell and looking for any way to jump ship.


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## doublejack (Apr 21, 2005)

TroutMaskReplica said:


> as doublejack suggests, the voip unit sits between the wall connection and the router - the computer doesn't have anything to do with it as i understand it.


EDITED - Tentative Agreement


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

> Telling us to find a new job maybe a reaction to your personal disdain towards big companies like Bell,


not a reaction to big companies - just the horrendous experiences i've had over the last three years with bell. i could max out this thread detailing it all, but i've already done that elsewhere and i don't want to repeat myself and frankly i'm weary of the whole thing. suffice it to say i'm moving this summer and will take the opportunity to rid myself of bell for good.



> So you see why Bell and I are very alarmed at this new threat of real competition.


competition? welcome to the real world.


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## autopilot (Dec 2, 2004)

TroutMaskReplica said:


> competition? welcome to the real world.


EXACTLY. bell has been without real competition for so long, if at all. can you say... monopoly?

good for the other companies for finding a way in. it's about time people were given some sort of choice. how many out there are frustrated to the point of tears by bell's service but have had no alternative until now?

if bell's service is really fantastic, then there's nothing to worry about. i would only be worried if i found i had nothing to offer to differentiate from the many competitive upstarts.


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## Megafreeze (May 18, 2005)

If you thought the service was bad last month, I wonder what service is like right now. With the Entourage techs on the sidewalk who knows who's fixing your phone? I'm not a computer enthusiast but your forum is the only intelligent discussion I've found on Bell. If Bell had their own way every tech would get 12 bucks/hr and fight for their job. "Cutting Costs" is verbal vaseline for bigger profits. (Don't get me started.... ). I don't trust our Union to make rational decisions, everybody is out for themselves. So if you readers are concerned either about your service with Bell, or with Corporate ravings call the CRTC and tell them, and us. 1-877-249-2782


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

i'm concerned why the CRTC doesn't over see satellite television like Bell ExpressVU
looks like somebody got a big cheque or two or 3...

i called CRTC a while ago to complain about Bell ExpressVu and CRTC said they don't look after satellite tv

so just what does the "Telecommunications" part of CRTC stand for ?

it's all a big shell game and the biggest losers are the consumers
we're the ones that pay for the overpaid executives, lazy and rude employees

/end rant


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

> If Bell had their own way every tech would get 12 bucks/hr and fight for their job.


again, welcome to the real world.

i'd like to see bell techs fight for their jobs. it might breed competence.


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## doublejack (Apr 21, 2005)

EDITED Tentative Agreement


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## Ex-ETS (Jun 8, 2005)

*Piece of work*

This Doublejack dude is some piece of work. Should change your name to double talk. As a customer of Bell, why would I want your high price ass, any raise you get just increases my phone bill. You may have some diluted ideal of quality workmanship but I'm sure that you are a significant minority. Most entourage techs are hacks.

I'd rather have a contractor any day. They are cheap and if they mess up they have to fix it on their own time or they are not paid. Any contractor has the same percentage of hacks as entourage does so I'll take my chances and hopefully keep my bill down. 

Doubletalk celebrates the fact that Rogers bought Sprint too. Typical union short sightedness. He doesn't get the fact that less customers with Bell means less money for Bell. That means less money can be paid to Entourage.. dumb. 

You are a contractor dude, just like the rest of them. Just because Bell owns Entourage now doesn't mean you get everything that a Bell employee gets. Just because Bell owns the Globe and mail doesn't mean the paper boy gets a pension. Give your head a good shake.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Ex-ETS said:


> This Doublejack dude is some piece of work. Should change your name to double talk. As a customer of Bell, why would I want your high price ass, any raise you get just increases my phone bill. You may have some diluted ideal of quality workmanship but I'm sure that you are a significant minority. Most entourage techs are hacks.
> 
> I'd rather have a contractor any day. They are cheap and if they mess up they have to fix it on their own time or they are not paid. Any contractor has the same percentage of hacks as entourage does so I'll take my chances and hopefully keep my bill down.
> 
> ...


so...

hire a contractor and STFU.


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## Ex-ETS (Jun 8, 2005)

*Typical union response*

If you don't share my opinions then STFU, typical low intelligence response. You are the reason why Entourage failed. You can't even mount a legiment argument... fool





groovetube said:


> so...
> 
> hire a contractor and STFU.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

the only thing low level is your whining and complaining about whatever the hell is up your ass. Nobody cares, so go screw yourself mister 2 post jerkoff.


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## Ex-ETS (Jun 8, 2005)

*Baby wants his bottle*



groovetube said:


> the only thing low level is your whining and complaining about whatever the hell is up your ass. Nobody cares, so go screw yourself mister 2 post jerkoff.


See, you prove my point. Have you ever expressed an actual intellegent arguement before? I doubt it judging from your poor attempts. This is a forum, idiot. You are suppose to express your views. If you don't like mine then debate me intelligently, not like a 12 year old. You are just making yourself look bad. 

As for what's up my ass, right now you are. Apparently even less care about you and your strike.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

here's some plain english...

no one cares.


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## thatcomputerguy (Jan 13, 2005)

all i know is, as a customer of bell, my father-in-law is still waiting for his DSL to be hooked up. waiting about 2 months now. soon he'll be switching to rogers i figure. i'm surprised he was patient this long. i wouldn't have been.


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## doublejack (Apr 21, 2005)

Ex-ETS said:


> This Doublejack dude is some piece of work. Should change your name to double talk. As a customer of Bell, why would I want your high price ass, any raise you get just increases my phone bill. You may have some diluted ideal of quality workmanship but I'm sure that you are a significant minority. Most entourage techs are hacks.
> 
> I'd rather have a contractor any day. They are cheap and if they mess up they have to fix it on their own time or they are not paid. Any contractor has the same percentage of hacks as entourage does so I'll take my chances and hopefully keep my bill down.
> 
> ...


EDITED - Tentative Agreement


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## Ex-ETS (Jun 8, 2005)

I'm surprized the union took you back as a stewart, after that failed management stint and all. Don't hurt that ankle jumping back on the band wagon. Any way you look at it, that nice little pre-ded gig you had going, is over. Bell will never pay hourly for the Pre-ded job when piecework works so well.

Face it man, you blew it. You had a chance to sign a decent offer but you got too greedy. Once Bell got into the ownership picture your demands became unreasonable. You should have signed and then made yourself valuable components of the company. I still have a lot of friends over there and feel sorry for them because of the position you short sighted union types put them in. They just want a job and aren't interested in your (and Art's, and Cowan's and Fling's) little vendeta with Bell. If you are so bitter with Bell because of 96 then quit and find work elsewhere, don't drag everyone down with you.


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## doublejack (Apr 21, 2005)

Ex-ETS said:


> I'm surprized the union took you back as a stewart, after that failed management stint and all. Don't hurt that ankle jumping back on the band wagon. Any way you look at it, that nice little pre-ded gig you had going, is over. Bell will never pay hourly for the Pre-ded job when piecework works so well.
> 
> Face it man, you blew it. You had a chance to sign a decent offer but you got too greedy. Once Bell got into the ownership picture your demands became unreasonable. You should have signed and then made yourself valuable components of the company. I still have a lot of friends over there and feel sorry for them because of the position you short sighted union types put them in. They just want a job and aren't interested in your (and Art's, and Cowan's and Fling's) little vendeta with Bell. If you are so bitter with Bell because of 96 then quit and find work elsewhere, don't drag everyone down with you.


EDITED - Tentative Agreement


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## canuck1975 (Dec 7, 2003)

Bell Canada won't find it easy to increase pricing when the Entourage contract is completed and the wage increases take effect, for two reasons:

1) CRTC tariffs are difficult to modify. Historically, it had taken months to years to have a price change approved by the CRTC. The CRTC has taken steps to expedite all requests going through them, but I'm not confident that much will change. Bell would have to show a significant loss to the CRTC, directly resulting from the increased wage and benefits package to the Entourage division, in order to have the CRTC even consider an increase in the tariffed rates. Sadly, Bell is legally required to provide local service (check the General Tariff, 10001), so this is a double-edged sword for them.

2) Bell could hike rates on their unregulated products (wireless, internet, long distance, TV), but that could lead them down a revenue spiral that would reduce their profit and drop the stock price. As it stands now, Bell cannot afford to price themselves too far above the rest of the market. For the first time in years, Mobility was not the star of the company, directly related to their billing migration disaster. 

As such, I do not see these wage increases having an impact on pricing, especially in the residential market. They may try to pass it onto SMBs and Enterprise customers, but again, I don't think that it will have that large an impact. 

Bell's in huge trouble as it is, and they know it, as they are bleeding customers at all levels, including Enterprise, and they know that if they don't come up with more innovative and effective pricing, they'll lose them. 

I'm slightly biased here, as I've been dealing with the telcos for around eight years now, managing them and their operations. They (all) have bigger things to worry about than wage increases to 40% of their technicians, and only the big boys will survive.


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

> Bell's in huge trouble as it is, and they know it, as they are bleeding customers at all levels,


i must admit i won't be sad to see them fail. 



> For the first time in years, Mobility was not the star of the company, directly related to their billing migration disaster.


hey, they stole $120 from me, and i've never had an account with them! figure that one out. was never able to reclaim the money, depite dozens of phone calls. so i've switched to VOIP and have vowed to cause as much damage to them as i possibly can, by switching others away from bell. a ripple of lost revenue that emanates exponentially outward from me. that's what happens when you abuse your customers (this would only come as a surprise to bell). http://www.ehmac.ca/showpost.php?p=226697&postcount=49


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## canuck1975 (Dec 7, 2003)

It's funny. I got asked by Bell why I wasn't including them in RFPs at my last company. My answer was:

"Incompetent sales people, poor service support and extremely high pricing."

They then said "we know, we're trying to fix things." 

That was my last day. We'll see how it goes.


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## Duffaholic (Jul 7, 2005)

thatcomputerguy said:


> all i know is, as a customer of bell, my father-in-law is still waiting for his DSL to be hooked up. waiting about 2 months now. soon he'll be switching to rogers i figure. i'm surprised he was patient this long. i wouldn't have been.


I'm in the exact same position as you. I registered for Bell Sympatico about a month ago. Luckily, I got free 3 months for the internet service before I started getting charged. However, that deal was pretty retarded since my phone isn't even hooked up to DSL. So now I have a nice free modem and free nice cables but no internet connection....I thought Bell was cool, guess not......


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## Ex-ETS (Jun 8, 2005)

No I'm not mixing you (D.M) up with J.G.


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## canuck1975 (Dec 7, 2003)

Duffaholic said:


> I'm in the exact same position as you. I registered for Bell Sympatico about a month ago. Luckily, I got free 3 months for the internet service before I started getting charged. However, that deal was pretty retarded since my phone isn't even hooked up to DSL. So now I have a nice free modem and free nice cables but no internet connection....I thought Bell was cool, guess not......


You realize that the three months free is based on the installation date, not the date you signed up, eh?


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## RicktheChemist (Jul 18, 2001)

.


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## CN (Sep 3, 2004)

I wonder when our phone line will be static free? Probably never, seeing as how we have to somehow get Bell to fix it (knowing them, they will come out and "fix" it 2 months from now and make the problem worse). You can hardly hear anyone on the phone (using cellphones instead...on the Rogers network) so our internet (ugh, dialup, no possibility of high speed in our area) is sporadic as well (works for about 5 minutes, then i get kicked off, go back on for another 5 etc.). Its horrible. You would think that Bell could have mastered a technology that was invented more than 120 years ago.


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

> RicktheChemist's Avatar
> 
> Join Date: Jul 2001
> Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
> ...


everything takes a minimum of 4 visits in my experience. and there was always a week's waiting period before they could 'schedule' a chimp to come correct the last chimp's mistake(s).

edit: i had to go through and change everything to past tense.


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## RicktheChemist (Jul 18, 2001)

.


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## doublejack (Apr 21, 2005)

*Tentative agreement in Bell Subco strike*

OTTAWA, July 11 /CNW Telbec/ - The following statement was released today
by Bob Huget, CEP Administrative VP, and union spokesperson for negotiations
with Entourage Technology:
"The company and the union have reached a tentative agreement on July 10
which could end the dispute. The tentative agreement will be taken to the
membership for a vote. That process could take 10 days. The union will have no
further comment or release any details until after the voting process."
1,400 CEP members at Bell Subco (Entourage Technology) have been on
strike since March 24, 2005.

(BTW NOT D.M)

edit I apologize for insulting the fine men and women of Canadian Tire and McDonalds by implying a Bell scab has the qualifications to do their jobs.


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

> SCABS start re-applying at Crappy Tire and Mickey Dees...we might need our candy back soon. You're welcome for the taste don't bother applying at SubCo we are a closed shop and DO NOT employ SCABS.


you're a perfect representation of everything that is wrong with bell.


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## iPetie (Nov 25, 2003)

TroutMaskReplica said:


> you're a perfect representation of everything that is wrong with bell.


Don't worry about it TMR. All he has to do is look South to see what's going to happen to Bell as a phone company in the next couple of years.
18 Months, stick a fork in him, he'll be done!


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## doublejack (Apr 21, 2005)

TroutMaskReplica said:


> you're a perfect representation of everything that is wrong with bell.


EDITED - Tentative Agreement


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

i'd just like to see anyone (except accounts receivable) at Bell actually doing their jobs correctly
scabs, union, anyone, just anyone....

i also suspect doublejack was never "happy" unless he didn't have to do any work
typical bell employee
always NOT doing their job and then bitch when people call them on it
bell employees have no idea of the connection between customers and the bell employees' paycheque

if i had ANY other choice but bell
maybe this nightmare, called Bell, would end


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## iPetie (Nov 25, 2003)

doublejack said:


> You'd be bitter too after 17 weeks of seeing scabs acting like they were doing your job. And they could not do our jobs why else would they want us back? It's not as easy as it looks.
> 
> Considering they'll need to get rid of 1000 guys or more before me I think I'll be around in 18 months. But thanks for the well wishes.


Your compassion for your 1000 brothers before you is overwelming.


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## canuck1975 (Dec 7, 2003)

iPetie said:


> Your compassion for your 1000 brothers before you is overwelming.


Great "unionization," eh?

I wonder how long it would take union employees on strike to get a problem resolved, if the problem resides in the CO...


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## Ex-ETS (Jun 8, 2005)

I worked for Entourage for a summer and I learned some things about the business very quickly. Entourage is obviously a profit driven company and managers are instructed (by their maniacal president) to squeeze every penny out of Bell even if it has to be done dishonestly. They constantly find devious all be it creative ways to gouge their customer Bell Canada. Some union types think that Bell bought Entourage in order to keep Ted Rogers from buying it. I think you would all agree that Teddy would never, never buy a unionized company. He is well aware of the filth and greed that permeate unions because their greed rivals his (this raises a "Heart of Darkness" moral issue - at least Ted acknowledges his greed). Make no mistake, Bell bought Entourage in order to get them in line and then eventually squash them out. Bell knows that their future does not lie with maintaining an antiquated copper network and will sell every cable and JWI within 10 years. 

As for DJDoubletalk, he is a notoriously militant Entourage tech and extremely bitter former Bell tech…all he has done since the beginning of the strike is search the web for forums such as these so that he may spew as much of the his/the union's rhetoric 
as possible. He is a dinosaur in a progressive industry. He is a selfish curd who cares for no one but himself and hides behind his union and his exaggerated quality standards. When challenged about the lack of quality workmanship at Entourage his response is 
"The poor service that some customers may have received is directly
related to the working conditions and remuneration that many of our
employees received." 

Typical union mentality, I do bad work because you don't pay me enough. My belief is that you should always perform to the best of your abilities and you will be rewarded for it. A union never rewards personal achievement; as a matter of fact it discourages it. I heard this comment many times "slow down, you are making us look bad", but my manager wasn't complaining. You watch, Doubletalk will bash me now in some post saying that I was some kind of management flunky. That’s ok; one can not be insulted by another that is held in no esteem or respect.

I think once he sees the offer that his union has agreed to put to vote he may even lose faith here. The deal is the same as the one Quebec accepted and Ontario rejected with some subtle but strategic changes. But the ultimatum that comes with the offer is altogether new. "Sign the deal or we (Bell Canada) dissolve the company (Entourage)" or something to this effect is what will ring in Doubletalk's ears and the strike will have been for nothing.


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## Ex-ETS (Jun 8, 2005)

Hey Doubletalk
What are you going to spend your $1000 on? You really stuck it to big bad Bell!!


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## doublejack (Apr 21, 2005)

Ex-ETS said:


> Hey Doubletalk
> What are you going to spend your $1000 on? You really stuck it to big bad Bell!!


Probably on a new resume. At least we got RRSP improvements effective 2009-2011 (apparantly they have been bargaining for the next contract.)

I suspect if this is ratified they will find that many employees will not be returning to put up with four more years of increasing bs.

I know you don't understand this, and hopefully you are on to greener pastures (I don't know if you're a SCAB) but many wanted to strike regardless of the outcome so that they would value our work. Maybe in vain, but we wouldn't want it any other way. They may yet vote no and dissolve the whole thing. The votes that have finished have been close.


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## Ex-ETS (Jun 8, 2005)

Sorry to burst your bubble but the contract expires 2009 and unless you have a signed letter of intent from whoever will be the president of Bell in 2009 then it doesn't mean dick. If you honestly think that you will actually get any kind of RRSP improvements in 2009 then you might consider some swamp land that I'm selling down here in Florida. I can't believe you revel in such an inane promise like that. I think its unprecedented for a company to basically say "we'll give you an RRSP increase in 2009, in the next deal". You rant and rave how much you hate Bell and don't trust them but when they dangle a tiny carrot, you bite. I think you are smart enough to know that there will not be a "next deal". "apparently they have been bargaining for the next contract" you don't really believe that do you?

I told you there would be an ultimatum, I told you that Pre-ded was gone and now I will tell you that the offer will be accepted by a wide margin (I think you will be voting yes on Friday as well). If the strike was designed in order to have someone value your work then that too failed. I think it has been proved that with the right training and tools your job is easily replaced. Bell's contracting solution would eventually have been streamlined, Bell techs would have accepted them being there. Why would Bell employees care with Article 11 in their contract, You are the real threat to their jobs. Your ideals on quality are diluted. You run a jumper, skin a BSW and mount a NID, make it look pretty and you are done. Quality is now accessed by the level of customer service you provide and with the chip on your shoulder I'd rather you did not repair my phone (you think a customer cares how you pigtail the BSW in the ped). Entourage provides bad customer service as a whole and the union protects techs that don't give a **** about the customer.

I only have to read your list of stewarts and presidents to know what your side of the CEP represents. Tell Art for me that its time to get off his ass and actually do some real work. 

Finally, in case you thought it was a victory to bring Bell back to the table in the first case, well you are wrong. Westcott begged Bell to let him request a new mediator and approach the union. He was in fear for his job because he was told that Bell's intention was not to renew Entourage's contract with Bell and thus Squashing the company. Funny eh, how Westcott saved your job. 

The fun is yet to begin, you are getting your candy back but its going to taste really bad.


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## RicktheChemist (Jul 18, 2001)

.


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## doublejack (Apr 21, 2005)

Ex-ETS said:


> Sorry to burst your bubble but the contract expires 2009 and unless you have a signed letter of intent from whoever will be the president of Bell in 2009 then it doesn't mean dick. If you honestly think that you will actually get any kind of RRSP improvements in 2009 then you might consider some swamp land that I'm selling down here in Florida. I can't believe you revel in such an inane promise like that. I think its unprecedented for a company to basically say "we'll give you an RRSP increase in 2009, in the next deal". You rant and rave how much you hate Bell and don't trust them but when they dangle a tiny carrot, you bite. I think you are smart enough to know that there will not be a "next deal". "apparently they have been bargaining for the next contract" you don't really believe that do you?
> 
> I told you there would be an ultimatum, I told you that Pre-ded was gone and now I will tell you that the offer will be accepted by a wide margin (I think you will be voting yes on Friday as well). If the strike was designed in order to have someone value your work then that too failed. I think it has been proved that with the right training and tools your job is easily replaced. Bell's contracting solution would eventually have been streamlined, Bell techs would have accepted them being there. Why would Bell employees care with Article 11 in their contract, You are the real threat to their jobs. Your ideals on quality are diluted. You run a jumper, skin a BSW and mount a NID, make it look pretty and you are done. Quality is now accessed by the level of customer service you provide and with the chip on your shoulder I'd rather you did not repair my phone (you think a customer cares how you pigtail the BSW in the ped). Entourage provides bad customer service as a whole and the union protects techs that don't give a **** about the customer.
> 
> ...


I was being sarcastic when I said "at least...2009" this is a minute concession that represents no current value and little future value.

I can't figure out why you dislike us/me so much. Unless you are a scab or are upset about being fired or deciding to leave. You are wrong on many points as usual. The change in pre-ded is a gain for us because it means we will pay our techs to do the work, no longer our cable pullers. The company will argue in 2007 that we are now company employees, not contractors and they will ride all over article 11. Quality is not sending 7 techs to do one tech's job. And you must know Andy pretty well to know what he's thinking and what he's doing, unless you are basing your arguments on sheer speculation and rumor.

Basically everyone knows why we are back to the table. We were sold out by the National who overstepped our bargaining comittee. Somebody's probably got a numbered account somewhere. This is totally speculation and rumor though, I wouldn't want to pass it off as factual.

I wish you good luck in your endeavors and hope you can address your hatred issues in therapy. Sometimes the colour yellow just ticks me off, so I know where you're coming from.


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## RicktheChemist (Jul 18, 2001)

.


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## Ex-ETS (Jun 8, 2005)

I actually feel sorry for you. Your Naivety is pathetic. Bell, out of the goodness of their hearts decided to pay pre-ded workers technician's wages. You are so blinded by your own rhetoric that you can't even see the writing on the wall. You are very gullible. Make no mistake, my problem is with you and I think if I brought all of your postings with me to a therapist, they would agree that it is right to hate you and what you represent. If I still lived in Ontario I would SCAB if only to spite you. 

You say that I am "basing [my] arguments on sheer speculation and rumor." and in the line before you state the following "The company will argue in 2007 that we are now company employees, not contractors and they will ride all over article 11". Very hypocritical don't you think? I don't know Westcott at all but its not that difficult to surmise the situation, it is obvious that he went to the national and planned your screwing over.

It is an awful thing to have something that you place so much faith in, kick you in the balls. The sooner you realize that your union is a business that is only interested in making money the better off you will be. 

By the way... who is counting the votes? KPMG?


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

hey rick,

this exchange between these two bell employees is illustrative of an inward looking culture that doesn't give a **** about the customer. either one of them could have suggested things to help you out, instead they argue amongst themselves over the details of a union agreement. btw, what the hell are they doing on this board?

7 techs eh? well you got me beat. i think the most i had to go through was 4 or 5. shockingly pathetic service from bell once again.


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## thatcomputerguy (Jan 13, 2005)

TroutMaskReplica said:


> hey rick,
> 
> this exchange between these two bell employees is illustrative of an inward looking culture that doesn't give a **** about the customer. either one of them could have suggested things to help you out, instead they argue amongst themselves over the details of a union agreement. btw, what the hell are they doing on this board?
> 
> 7 techs eh? well you got me beat. i think the most i had to go through was 4 or 5. shockingly pathetic service from bell once again.


Well said - i have to agree. kind of lost track of the problem with all the finger pointing going on. i'm still waiting for the phonecall from bell saying the DSL is finally set up on my father-in-law's phoneline. just over 2 months now...


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## Ex-ETS (Jun 8, 2005)

For the record I am not and never have been a Bell employee and I agree that the service there can be somewhat deplorable. However I was not aware that the topics of debate were in anyway limited. My apoligies if my posting did not belong here. My point was that the reason they have such trouble at Bell is partly due to their labour situation.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

still doesn't get it.

The reason Bell has so much trouble is that they have completely forgotten about the customer and seem to be be only interested in it's own reflection.

Anyone who has had to deal with them enough can see that. If what you say is true then they have been losing a very long, long battle with their 'labour situation'.

A very loooooooong battle....


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## RicktheChemist (Jul 18, 2001)

.


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## _Outcast_ (Oct 17, 2003)

I work for a telecom company. Like most telecom companies we have to order local loops from the telco. I was sent to one of our DSL customers today. Basically they order DSL, we order dry loop from Bell, our equipment at both ends.

This customer's service stopped working Friday morning. She said that there was a Bell van on the street and when it left their DSL was dead. She also said that there was another office in her building that had just had phone lines installed. Gee, there's a concidence...

So we test it Friday and report the open loop to Bell. Our agreement wih Bell is 24 hours on this type of loop. OK, whatever. However, since there's an Entourage strike Bell now tells us that restoral will be within 5 days. Huh? Who said you could change the rules??? Clowns.

So, they send one of their "techs" out to test it today. He goes down to the Bell closet, comes up a few minutes later and tells the customer that it's all fixed. The customer explains that no, it most certainly is not fixed, but the Bell guy leaves anyway. Hey, what does he care, not his customer, right?

So I show up this afternoon. I see that the DSL circuit is clearly still failed. I put a tone generator on at the jack the router connects to in the customer room. I go to the Bell closet to find my tone. Guess what? It's there alright, but it's not connected to the cable that comes in from the street. I would like to know how the Bell "tech" who was out this morning decided that this was working???? They honestly have no concept of customer service. If I go out on a service call and just plain decide to not do my job I would be raked over the coals, and rightly so. These guys do it all the time and they get away with it. Gotta love that union protection, eh?

We called Bell and asked them to send someone out again but they said it was too late in the day. Sure, OK, it's 3:00 pm and we're three blocks from the CO. Yeah, I can see how your guy might not be able to get there until maybe 3:15 or even 3:20. God forbid they should have to work that late. Bastards.

So I tagged the bix position for the Bell guy. He'd have to be blind to now know where to connect the wires. I gave the customer my number anyway. I told her that if he gives her any flak to call me and I'll talk to him. I mean seriously, how difficult is it to get a pair of freaking wires connected together???? Evedently if you work for Bell it's a major undertaking.

I also have a theory as to why the DSL sevice failed in the first place. See, Bell had an order to got out and install some new voice lines for the other customer. So they open up the JWI (or however it's spelled) box on the street. They then listen for dialtone on the pairs going to the building in question. When they find a "free" pair they take it and use it for their install. The problem is that if you listen to a loop that has DSL service on it you can't really hear anything but a faint whooshing sound. Of course, if you're out on the street you likely ain't even gonna hear that. So they think the pair is free and they take it. Brilliant. I cannot count the number of times this has happened to our customers. Then when you call Bell to report the outage they say, 'We have 24 hours to fix this as per the agreement." Telling them that that rule should not apply because they were theones who broke it gets you absolutely nowhere. Why? Because Bell doesn't give a rat's ass about any customer at all. Period.

Should be an interesting day tomorrow.

Jerry


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## canuck1975 (Dec 7, 2003)

Hey Jerry,

A couple things:

1) The techs are actually rarely in the CO anymore. It's doubtful that there was a tech available to work, but it wouldn't have been due to your client's distance from the CO, it would be due to the tech being off at another service client's site.

2) Get your relationship management group to hound your company's Service Director or above to provide the new Bell Service Promise. That 24 hour "agreement" should drop to a 4 hour guarantee, unless things haven't changed in the CLEC/reseller vs. enterprise environment.

3) Next time Bell advises you that there is an _Entourage_ strike and changes the due date and time, *escalate the call immediately*. Trust me on that one. Five days is unacceptable, and your SD will push to have it changed.

It kinds sucks being a CLEC/reseller sometimes, eh? I worked for one too, and damn, the crap we had to put up with was ****ed up.


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## hunglo100 (Jul 21, 2005)

*Strike Over!*

Good news for all customers... The strike is over and in the next couple of weeks we will be out in full force. Thanks to all the brothers and sisters that put on a GREAT fight and made BELL bend!


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

> The strike is over and in the next couple of weeks we will be out in full force.


god help us.


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## _Outcast_ (Oct 17, 2003)

canuck1975 said:


> Hey Jerry,
> 
> A couple things:
> 
> 1) The techs are actually rarely in the CO anymore. It's doubtful that there was a tech available to work, but it wouldn't have been due to your client's distance from the CO, it would be due to the tech being off at another service client's site.


 Well, I've been to that CO and there are lots of personal vehicles parked there, even in the spots that say "Reserved for CO Tech." The point is that whether or not there is a tech in the CO that shouldn't have anyting to do with getting a field tech out to fix the problem that they caused in the first place. The fact of the matter is that Bell treats its customers, whether a reseller or end user, like **** and I don't see that changing in the forseeable future. I always make sure to make it abundantly clear to the customer that when it's a Bell problem that we have to wait for Bell to fix it. They really don't seem surprised and usually don't have anything good to say about Bell anyway. This is the kind of lack of faith in Bell that Bell's poor service fosters. You really do reap what you sow.



canuck1975 said:


> 2) Get your relationship management group to hound your company's Service Director or above to provide the new Bell Service Promise. That 24 hour "agreement" should drop to a 4 hour guarantee, unless things haven't changed in the CLEC/reseller vs. enterprise environment.


 Well, the 24 hour SLA is for an A5 loop (a dry loop). That's fine, 24 hours is what we're paying for so I'll gladly accept 24 hours. What frosts me is that the agreement is in place, signed by both parties. Bell has a labour dispute and they decide that the 24 hour repair window will be expanded to 8 to 10 days. Excuse me??? We had an agreement, clearly that meant SFA to Bell. 



canuck1975 said:


> 3) Next time Bell advises you that there is an _Entourage_ strike and changes the due date and time, *escalate the call immediately*. Trust me on that one. Five days is unacceptable, and your SD will push to have it changed.


 I had a manger try to escalate one to Bell yesterday. The customer's one and only phone line was down and Bell told them the soonest they could get out there was the 24th. After the manager spent sveral minutes on the phone trying to get through to them that that was just not good enough their response was that they might be able to get someone there on the 23rd. Excellent. Excellent customer service skills Bell. Bravo.

What does it take with these clowns? Does someone have to die in an emergency situation because they can't place a call to 911 because Bell doesn't care enough to repair their line?

I also noticed that Bell will never offer up any sort of rebates to these people who are without phone service for days on end. They still expect you to pay the full amount of your bill even though they failed to live up to their end of the agreement. I encourage everyone who has been in this situation to call Bell customer service (there's a non-sequiter) and bitch, whine, and moan until they give you a break on your bill. It's the very least they can do for you. The very least.



canuck1975 said:


> It kinds sucks being a CLEC/reseller sometimes, eh? I worked for one too, and damn, the crap we had to put up with was ****ed up.


 You're right. They certainly don't make it easy do they? Well, at least the Entourage guys will be back. Most of them know how to count past ten so hopefully we'll wind up with fewer pairs being inadvertently appropriated. At least I hope so.

Jerry


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## otto (Jul 22, 2005)

I can honestly say that Bell techs actually do drag their asses and are pretty sloppy. I not saying everyone but there are quite a few of them. I can say this because I'm one of those hamburg flipping [email protected]#$ers who hung up the apron and completed jobs that five Bell techs couldn't figure out. I tell you whats funny is that Bell is so back logged that they're going to be keeping contractors on till September, so it looks like I'll be working next to those guys who've been saying those sweet things about me.


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## RicktheChemist (Jul 18, 2001)

.


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## thatcomputerguy (Jan 13, 2005)

RicktheChemist said:


> Had my eight tech show up today.. still having an issue with the line just dying.. he changed a few more wires here and there.. but I think I am still in the lead at 8 techs
> 
> RtC


Damn - i'm still waiting for the first tech. But hey it's only been 2-1/2 months....


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## RicktheChemist (Jul 18, 2001)

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## RicktheChemist (Jul 18, 2001)

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## thatcomputerguy (Jan 13, 2005)

that's terrible. i bet alexander is rolling over in his grave right now.

we finally got my father-in-law's dsl hooked up. exactly 3 months after it was supposed to be originally done. nice job Bell. (sarcasm, in case you are wondering) The boneheads finally set it all up for him and decided to change his password to connect and to retrieve his email without telling him the new password. and when we call in to get the new password, they don't even apologize or acknowledge the mistake.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I have just upgraded from Warp 3 to the Aliant High Speed Ultra service. I fear that my DSL experience might not be the same ever again. However, if it is, then I have made the correct decision. We shall see.


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## RicktheChemist (Jul 18, 2001)

.


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

RTC, please don't reward that incomprehensible-yet-entirely-typical lunacy from Bell Canada.

find a better phone company. it won't be hard, since bell is the very worst of them.


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## RicktheChemist (Jul 18, 2001)

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## RicktheChemist (Jul 18, 2001)

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