# New Apple Store for Southern Ontario



## bgps (Sep 18, 2006)

After having gone to a few Apple Stores over the busy Christmas season, I've been thinking, where do the members think the next Apple Store will be in Southern Ontario? 

Looking westward is Burlington, Kitchener, or London a possibility? Or perhaps a flagship store in Downtown Toronto?

Thoughts??

Bruce


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

Downtown TO is already saturated. Tonnes of Indie stores selling Macs + Eaton Centre. Yorkdale is also accessible by subway.

Apple would be smart to put one in Waterloo/Kitchener. That is a booming area with lots of money and young, tech-type people. 

I think Apple would like to sell more off of their website. Brick and mortar overhead seems so antiquated, when things can be purchased and shipped so easily.

Corporate stores are less for selling and more for brand recognition and luring potential customers into test-driving their first Mac in a comfortable, no-pressure environment. Apple Store sales people have to be the least "pressure-sell" customer service people in the tech-biz. 

My thoughts anyways.


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## kelman (Sep 25, 2010)

I agree Adrian but I get pissed when I need to drive from the hammer to sherway gardens everytime I need something taken care of. I don't trust the authorized apple guys here, too greasy.


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## bgps (Sep 18, 2006)

I was thinking that Kitchener Waterloo will be the place to go...I agree that Apple would like to move away from Brick and Mortar stores...but that hasn't seemed to stop them from opening new stores all over the world including a huge new store in London, England. 

My thought re Toronto was...close Eaton Centre and open a flag ship store say on Bloor Street.


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## Newdeal (Nov 2, 2009)

I think if they were going to open a store it would be in Hamilton. Sure London and KW are places where a store could possibly do well, but the cities themselves are more isolated. Hamilton is a large town, with many other large towns nearby, Niagara Falls, St. Catharines, Burlington etc etc etc so that would be the best place imo


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## kelman (Sep 25, 2010)

it would be a problem for me, I would be in it all the time, but I wouldn't be complaining about the drive anymore!


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

bgps,

Apple is putting stores in strategic, "symbolic" cities. London, New York, San Francisco, Tokyo etc. They are global cities with millions of people from around the world going through them for various reasons. It demonstrates the technology, power, simplicity and Applesque that they are trying to communicate as the "Mac". 

This is more of a statement than a store. It is an experience. It instills very precise emotions and reactions:


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## Newdeal (Nov 2, 2009)

there are plenty of apple stores that aren't in huge cities like that...there is one in Buffalo! That city has nothing going for it lol


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## diveman (Apr 23, 2005)

Newdeal said:


> there are plenty of apple stores that aren't in huge cities like that...there is one in Buffalo! That city has nothing going for it lol


The one major thing going for it is it's proximity to the Canadian border.


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

Don't forget the chicken wings!


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## Chimpur (May 1, 2009)

I'm somewhat surprised Apple didn't want in Vaughn Mills. Its in an area with very large homes, just off the highway too! 

I like apple stores; but I hate the crowds. I dont enjoy waiting for some kid to stop playing Facebook games or someone checking their teeth with the iSight cam just so I can have a look at the newest hardware etc.


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## andreww (Nov 20, 2002)

In Toronto the city is covered with the Eaton center, the west end has Sherway, and the north end has Fairview, but the East end is still not covered. I think a location at Scarborough Town Center would be a good idea. Currently, those of us in Pickering, Ajax, Whitby and beyond have a very long drive to Fairview.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

> I like apple stores; but I hate the crowds. I dont enjoy waiting for some kid to stop playing Facebook games or someone checking their teeth with the iSight cam just so I can have a look at the newest hardware etc.


just the same as im sure they don't enjoy the pretentious computer nerd behind them waiting impatiently for them to finish their turn


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## crawford (Oct 8, 2005)

Toronto is definitely not saturated. There is still room for a high-profile flagship store in a non-mall location like Bloor/Yorkville, Queen West or even Yonge/Eglinton.


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

crawford said:


> Toronto is definitely not saturated. There is still room for a high-profile flagship store in a non-mall location like Bloor/Yorkville, Queen West or even Yonge/Eglinton.


+1

I've never been in Eaton Centre in the last two years or so when it is not a zoo.

Yorkville would be perfect. The store could look like the big H&M Store on Bloor (across from Holts) - three stories of glass.

K/W would be cool too - but then Carbon is there. I'm sure none of the AARs want any more Apple Retail stores in the GTA. Or Southern Ontario for that matter. Too much competition.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

how about right at yonge/dundas right beside hard rock cafe, they could build something like the one in New York


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

Joker Eh said:


> how about right at yonge/dundas right beside hard rock cafe, they could build something like the one in New York


While that'd be cool, it's too close to the Eaton Centre (aka, right across the road  ).

As shown in NYC, they want to build stores in different neighbourhoods (SoHo, 5th Ave, Meat Packing District, etc...). 

As much as I'd like a store in Bloor/Yorkville, I think it's probably still too close to the Eaton Centre.


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## Chimpur (May 1, 2009)

Well there is always the Albion Mall!


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

fyrefly said:


> While that'd be cool, it's too close to the Eaton Centre (aka, right across the road  ).
> 
> As shown in NYC, they want to build stores in different neighbourhoods (SoHo, 5th Ave, Meat Packing District, etc...).
> 
> As much as I'd like a store in Bloor/Yorkville, I think it's probably still too close to the Eaton Centre.


close the one in the Eaton Centre.


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

Joker Eh said:


> close the one in the Eaton Centre.


I agree. But they just renovated that place, so that won't happen. I still maintain that Apple should open one in K/W. 

I wonder, for all those Indie store owners out there, is there an agreement that Apple won't open up shop right next to you?


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## dyrnwyn (Nov 28, 2002)

London, dammit! We've got Futile Shop (x2), Best Buy (x2), Mostly Digital, Mac Outpost and Henry's as Apple Authorized dealers, but we reeeeeeally need an Apple Store!


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## Newdeal (Nov 2, 2009)

If they open a store in KW it should be a Linux store lol


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## bgps (Sep 18, 2006)

Adrian:

I too agree about KW...I still think Toronto could have a flag ship store. The Eaton Centre store is woefully small. 

I was recently talking to an employee of an Apple only authorized dealer, and he said that the only agreement they have with Apple is that Apple will give them 1 year notice they plan on opening a store in their area. Apparently this is up from 3 months. 

Bruce


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

You guys forget that they are typically located in "Fashion Malls". They're catering to the affluent soccer moms who just buy Apple because it's chic. And the upper middle class teenagers who have disposable incomes. Look for stores like Abercrombie, Williams-Sonoma, Banana Republic, Pottery Barn and other complimenting tenants.

That would make Mapleview in Burlington next on the list.


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

I've said it in other threads, if you look at where Apple has positioned stores in the GTA, they have been mainly in locations where there was no good strong Apple Dealer. 

Having said that, I would agree that positioning a store in Mapleview Mall in Burlington would also draw from the Niagara region, mainly because of it's location right on the QEW.


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## andreww (Nov 20, 2002)

Oakbridge said:


> I've said it in other threads, if you look at where Apple has positioned stores in the GTA, they have been mainly in locations where there was no good strong Apple Dealer.


Really? The Eaton center location is right across the street from where Compusmart used to be. A couple of blocks from where Elm St. Computers used to be. And just a few blocks from where Carbon computing is. I really don't think apple really cares where there are already dealers. Eventually they will have stores in all the high end malls, it'll just take time.


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## Lichen Software (Jul 23, 2004)

*Upper Canada Mall*



Chimpur said:


> I'm somewhat surprised Apple didn't want in Vaughn Mills. Its in an area with very large homes, just off the highway too!
> 
> I like apple stores; but I hate the crowds. I dont enjoy waiting for some kid to stop playing Facebook games or someone checking their teeth with the iSight cam just so I can have a look at the newest hardware etc.


They put one in Upper Canada Mall instead. I can't get into Vaughn Mills. It has a bad feel for me. Upper Canada Mall on the other hand is pretty nice.


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## JCCanuck (Apr 17, 2005)

*Agree!*



Oakbridge said:


> I've said it in other threads, if you look at where Apple has positioned stores in the GTA, they have been mainly in locations where there was no good strong Apple Dealer.
> 
> Having said that, I would agree that positioning a store in Mapleview Mall in Burlington would also draw from the Niagara region, mainly because of it's location right on the QEW.


I have family members and lot's of friends in areas like Burlington & Grimsby (newly converted to macs) that love going to Apple but find going to Toronto long. I did tell them there is one at SQ1 but Mapleview would be perfect.


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## viffer (Aug 29, 2007)

I agree. If Apple wont come to KW, then they should be at Mapleview.


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

Adrian. said:


> Corporate stores are less for selling and more for brand recognition and luring potential customers into test-driving their first Mac in a comfortable, no-pressure environment.


Apple stores actually sell plenty. What you're saying probably applies perfectly to Sony Style and the like, but IMO the Apple stores are one of the most important parts of the company's resurgence and new mainstream success.

This article is a little out of date and focuses on the NYC flagship:

Apple May Be Highest Grossing Fifth Avenue Retailer (Update2) - Bloomberg

Similarly dated, but interesting:

All the Apple Store Data You Could Possibly Want to Read


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## thadley (Jul 8, 2008)

My money's on KW. As much as Hamilton is more populated (plus the Burlington area and whatnot) I suspect Apple will say "well, they're used to driving into the GTA for stores." KW could help cover Guelph, Cambridge, even London I suppose. Also mostly university towns, which certainly wouldn't hurt laptop and iPad sales.


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

KW has no high-end fashion mall. Used to be one could say they never shared mall space with dollar stores but Square One debunked that with their Dollarama just steps away from the Apple Store. That being said, Square One, with its expansion puts it in a super mall status.

Mapleview's recent renovations and it's catering to the fashion clientele make it very likely an Apple Store location for the future.


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

andreww said:


> Really? The Eaton center location is right across the street from where Compusmart used to be. A couple of blocks from where Elm St. Computers used to be. And just a few blocks from where Carbon computing is. I really don't think apple really cares where there are already dealers. Eventually they will have stores in all the high end malls, it'll just take time.


Note that I said that they have positioned stores where a GOOD Apple Dealer didn't exist.

- Compusmart 

A so-so dealer at best. Whenever I went in looking for something, it was never in stock. And there was little if ever Apple knowledge available.

- Elm St.

If memory serves me correctly, Elm St. was gone before the Eaton Centre store opened and was replaced by Northern. I believe things changed after the original owner of Elm St. passed away.

- Carbon Computing

The only dealer that I would consider to be a 'good' dealer. But it's 2 miles away and in that part of the city, you've got more than enough business for both. And as a west-end guy, you'd be surprised at how many of us feel that anything east of Church St. is in no-man's land. 

Apple put stores in Yorkdale, Sherway, Fairview, Square One, and Newmarket because none of those locations had a strong dealer. Burlington, Oakville, Hamilton, KW, and London all have good strong Apple dealerships.


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

gmark2000 said:


> KW has no high-end fashion mall. Used to be one could say they never shared mall space with dollar stores but Square One debunked that with their Dollarama just steps away from the Apple Store. That being said, Square One, with its expansion puts it in a super mall status.
> 
> Mapleview's recent renovations and it's catering to the fashion clientele make it very likely an Apple Store location for the future.


Conestoga Mall is looking pretty good these days. Has quite a few high-end places, a really expensive chain restaurant (some Italian deal). My money is on KW. It makes more sense. Plus that's RIMs stomping grounds.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

Oakbridge said:


> Apple put stores in Yorkdale, Sherway, Fairview, Square One, and Newmarket because none of those locations had a strong dealer. Burlington, Oakville, Hamilton, KW, and London all have good strong Apple dealerships.


Ummm NO. Apple put them there because they prefer to place their non-flagship stores in upscale malls and chose Cadillac Fairview properties here in Canada to start.


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## crawford (Oct 8, 2005)

First off, I'll state up front that I have no actual data to back up my opinions here... But I would be shocked to learn that Apple actually takes the quality or performance of existing dealers into account when deciding about new retail locations. I am inclined to believe that it is more based on location profile, local demographics (population and income), proximity to other Apple stores, and characteristics of the real estate market. I'd bet that they couldn't care less about opening next door to a local dealer if they felt that the other factors were in place. The reality is that independent dealers don't have flashy stores and aren't located in high-traffic malls or posh neighbourhoods for a reason. 

The Apple Store retail experience is completely different from the traditional dealer network. If those retailers were high performers in terms of sales and building the brand, there would have been no need for Apple to move into the retail sector. Same goes for big-box stores that sell Apple products... Case in point: there are crowds inside the Eaton Centre Apple Store that is located in very close proximity to a large Future Shop and Best Buy.

As an aside, I found it interesting to learn from another poster that Apple actually does give notice to existing dealers of their intention to open a new retail store nearby. That was a surprise.


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## Macinguelph (Oct 27, 2007)

As a Burlington native, I can see the merit of Mapleview. I think it is close enough to Hamilton to serve that city and Burlington (and KW/Guelph even) quite well. I think that Most of Oakville would also go there as opposed to Square One.

I can also see the need for one in the KW area. With 2 Universities in Waterloo and 1 in Guelph and a few Conestoga campuses thrown in the mix, this is also a huge market for Apple as far as Canadian markets go. I was told by one of the Apple guys at Future Shop in Kitchener a while back that the Guelph store has the highest sales volumes of Apple stuff in the region (not sure what that includes).

Maybe 2 new stores out in the wild west!


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## pcronin (Feb 20, 2005)

how about a 1st store in the maritimes? Moncton or Halifax would support one, if not for locals then for sure from all the "destination shoppers". Hell, my girlfriend and I went to Portland ME because it was the technically the closest Apple store to us.


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## bgps (Sep 18, 2006)

I can't see Guelph getting a store, Stone Road Mall is the only place you could put it; and well lets just say it is not a premiere mall. However, I would say there is possibility of Connestoga Mall. I also think that Mapleview would be the next best location. 

BGPS


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## garf1108 (May 30, 2006)

KW area for me as Guelph is too small.


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

The old Conestoga Mall would definitely not have been suitable but from what I've read about the facelift perhaps it's ready. How's the foot traffic there? Is it usually packed?



Ivanhoe said:


> Conestoga Mall has recently completed a $77 Million expansion and renovation project that includes a brand-new “green” Bay store, 30 new fashion retailers, two full-scale premium restaurants, a contemporary 800-seat food court and a complete renovation of the centre. Conestoga Mall’s new fashion-forward retailers such as Canada’s first Pink by Victoria’s Secret, Bath & Body Works, H & M and Oliver & Bonacini are a perfect complement to already established marquee retailers at the centre including Old Navy, Winners, Gap, American Eagle, Aerie and Galaxy Cinema. The redevelopment has resulted in significant sales and traffic increases. Conestoga Mall draws affluent young families living in a region which includes Research in Motion – makers of the Blackberry, world renowned University of Waterloo and numerous insurance company head offices. The region was cited by the Toronto Star as Ontario’s ‘economic Alberta’ given the growth of high-tech industries and diversified employment base, which have all contributed to Conestoga Mall’s solid sales performance.


Some have said that the tenant base isn't as high end as Mapleview.


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## jjjMac (Jan 28, 2011)

Hey guys, new around here, but I came across this today:

A black construction barricade (in true Apple style) was put up around a recently closed store at Conestoga Mall in Waterloo. It looks really promising!  There are posts and pictures at this site (link below):

Mall Retail - Cambridge Centre, Conestoga and Fairview


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

I've been told that the floor to ceiling construction hoarding is definitely Apple's. Where in the mall is this?


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## jjjMac (Jan 28, 2011)

The old Fairweather location. If you look at that map you posted (post #41) its across from the large unit outlined in red (H&M) and down to the left of the hallway about 3 units. About 4,400 square feet. If you notice in the picture you posted from Wonderful Waterloo, the barrier wall was fitted around the varied ceiling pattern, which is unusual and really detailed for typical construction hoarding.

Rumor has it that the Apple Store at Conestoga Mall will open in October 2011.


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## bgps (Sep 18, 2006)

That would be great!!! Although as I live east of Guelph I doubt it would change me from going to Sherway or Square One. But Waterloo seems the logical choice. I wonder what Carbon Computers in Kitchener would think about this??


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

> I wonder what Carbon Computers in Kitchener would think about this??


probably the same thing they thought when every other apple store opened up in the other cities they have locations in?


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

I think Carbon draws a crowd of long-time mac users who want consistent faces and consistent service, and particularly a company that is very happy to work with older macs. 

Same market, different crowd.


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

This location is way to entice RIM employees.

Apple hiring BlackBerry enterprise sales staff


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## K2ACP (Sep 11, 2010)

We do not need any more apple stores in Toronto


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

K2ACP said:


> We do not need any more apple stores in Toronto


It's not. It's an hour away in Waterloo.


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## ericlewis91 (Jul 12, 2007)

Waterloo = 30,000+ studends
Laurier = 15,000+ students

all within a 15minute bus ride!

This store will do well!

And where I will be living next year will be about a 10minute bus ride, will be my first Apple Store grand opening!

I think London Ontario is next!


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## DDKD726 (Feb 21, 2005)

I'm hoping that Yorkville still happens: http://www.ifoapplestore.com/db/2008/03/27/store-planned-for-luxury-toronto-site/

It's only 3 subway stops from my building!


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## crawford (Oct 8, 2005)

DDKD726 said:


> I'm hoping that Yorkville still happens: http://www.ifoapplestore.com/db/2008/03/27/store-planned-for-luxury-toronto-site/
> 
> It's only 3 subway stops from my building!


That development project went bankrupt about two years ago when the financial markets collapsed. The newer plans are more modest.


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## breadwinka (Feb 8, 2011)

I work at conestoga mall and pretty much confirm this the on site foreman was telling me that it is an apple store le chateau is getting renovated to cause apple wanted more space. Its going to be all glass accross and is costing over million dollars.


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## ericlewis91 (Jul 12, 2007)

Peeked into the door crack today, also saw a few men inside talking and pointing (not in construction suits)

and Its completely bare inside, no ceiling and concrete floor

im assuming work will begin soon, Im assuming its allot of work to turn this empty space into an Apple Store...


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## jjjMac (Jan 28, 2011)

It's now official: Apple will be opening not 1, but 2 stores in Southern Ontario This year!

In addition to a store at *Conestoga Mall in Waterloo*, they will also be opening a store at *Mapleview Centre in Burlington*.

Job postings for both stores went up over the last few days. 

Search for job opportunities at this link: Apple - Jobs at Apple - Retail (ca)


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## ericlewis91 (Jul 12, 2007)

:clap: YES! they really are expanding in Southern Ontario!


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

Very exciting stuff! I always knew it would be a matter of time until there was an Apple Store in this area, and I'm actually really surprised it took this long! With Kitchener-Waterloo-Guelph-Cambridge-London area, you're looking a close to a million people. The area is a hotbed of technology with RIM, OpenText, Google and many others. 

Will be following developments of the store closely.


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## ericlewis91 (Jul 12, 2007)

I still think London will get one.. With Western and it's still an hour an so from Waterloo... Still hoping! At least where I live for school is 5min from the apple store in conestoga!


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## bgps (Sep 18, 2006)

Both Burlington and Waterloo...Makes sense. Around Christmas I was in Creative Technology on Fairview and they hinted that Apple had made overtures about an area store. He believed that Apple was looking at the Mapleview Mall, this was actually the genesis of this post. I am quite excited to see these stores open. This begs another question. With 7 Apple Stores in Southern Ontario, do we have the highest concentration of Apple Stores outside California? 

BGPS


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## ericlewis91 (Jul 12, 2007)

After these stores it leaves 9 in Southern Ontario which has a population of about 12.1million


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