# Third Toronto store



## Sayhey (Nov 11, 2005)

Apple's "Search Jobs" web page now lists a third location ("Ontario-Sherway Gardens") in Toronto. Looks like a big year for Canadian stores. Of course, no job listings as of yet.

edit: OK, I'm obviously from out of the area. It looks like the Sherway Gardens mall is actually in Etobicoke; not in Toronto proper. Still the third in the metro area. Now how about a downtown location? Of note is that this is yet another Cadillac Fairview mall (to go along with Eaton Centre, Le Carrefour Laval, and the rumored Chinook Centre.) The fact all new stores are located in their property, as has already been noted by another poster, can't be a coincidence. If you're looking for likely new locations I'd look here.


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## BobbyFett (Jan 12, 2005)

I couldn't find the same posting... has it been taken down?


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## ender78 (Jan 23, 2005)

This could get very very dangerous for me. One store close to work, one within a short driving distance.


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## mgl (Feb 14, 2004)

BobbyFett said:


> I couldn't find the same posting... has it been taken down?


Go to search opportunities. Click Canada and Retail. There should be a new location in the Locations list for Sherway Gardens. No actual job postings yet.

I tried this a couple of times and sometimes Sherway Gardens showed up in the list and sometimes it didn't. I didn't have time to figure out what's going on, but I assume they're in the process of adding the location to the database. Maybe it hasn't propagated to all of the servers yet or something.

But anyway, yes, it looks like a third GTA locaation has been confirmed.


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## Heart (Jan 16, 2001)

OMG


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## BobbyFett (Jan 12, 2005)

Makes sense. I see a location at Sherway more appropriate than Yorkdale to be honest.


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## trump (Dec 7, 2004)

Sherway has been cleaning up, they just got the first Canadian Abercrombie as well as a Hollister. This is interesting, I wonder of Markville is a candidate? Located right in the heart of one of the highest income per household areas in the GTA.

I wonder if this will kill chances for a downtown flagship...it seems they're opting to dot the GTA rather than have one really big store


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## 8127972 (Sep 8, 2005)

I'm not surprised. Can Square One and Scarborough Town Center be far behind?


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

It has always been my contention that Toronto doesn't even rate the same consideration as Chicago, never mind London, New York or Tokyo. So no, I don't see a huge chance of a 'flagship' store, but I have been wrong before. 

Anything close to a flagship-type location could be the Sporting Life store at Sherway. It's the only two level location (aside from the two 'anchor' stores) and it faces the QEW on three sides with an outside facing sign allowance. The 905 cubicle crowd would see it every day while in stop-and-go traffic.:lmao:


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## shoe (Apr 6, 2005)

Ive worked in the past at both sporting life and eatons, Sporting Life when expanding to sherway told us back in the mid 90s that sherway was # 3 in mall sales behind eatons center and yorkdale ( not sure if it was ontario or canada, so apple going there makes sence).

When I worked at the scarborough town center eatons, they were always in sales competitions with the eatons at sherway or yorkdale, if we passed them in sales it was a big deal for the management, as a stock person I couldnt have gave a rats ass really.

So based on my retail experience apple at sherway makes good business sence, lots of people with big money out that way too.

shoe


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## Oliver_G (May 9, 2005)

My aunt works at Sherway and mentioned they were getting a store (somewhere near caryl baker visage) I told her that she was crazy because Apple wouldn't go telling everyone in the mall about it when job posting haven't been posted. I said she must be thinking about Eatons.


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## JAMG (Apr 1, 2003)

Sherway Gardens is in the former city of Etobicoke, which since amalgimation is now part of the city of Toronto, officially. 

Higher end mall, easier to park at than Yorkdale... for now...:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


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## maximusbibicus (Feb 25, 2002)

Nice. Close to work


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## 8127972 (Sep 8, 2005)

> Higher end mall, easier to park at than Yorkdale... for now


You've never been there on a Thursday or Friday Evening or on a weekend. It's a total zoo (although I do admit that Yorkdale tends to be worse at times).


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## shoe (Apr 6, 2005)

8127972 said:


> You've never been there on a Thursday or Friday Evening or on a weekend. It's a total zoo (although I do admit that Yorkdale tends to be worse at times).


Yorkdale having a subway staion tacked onto it probably generates alot of extra parking, I know I have parked in the mall lot and jumped on the subway before its not right but its free

shoe


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## 8127972 (Sep 8, 2005)

shoe said:


> Yorkdale having a subway staion tacked onto it probably generates alot of extra parking, I know I have parked in the mall lot and jumped on the subway before its not right but its free
> 
> shoe


Good point. Although I have heard that Yorkdale security is now getting agressive about keeping people out of their lot before 9AM. 

That brings up a point about Sherway. They really don't have a good connection to the TTC. Routes 123 (from Kipling Station), 80 (from Keele Station), and 15 (from Royal York Station) are the only ones that run to that mall. The Eaton Center and Yorkdale locations have subway connections which makes the easier to get to. Wouldn't that be a bit of an issue?

Finally, isn't Digital Prototypes in the Sherway area? How does this affect them?


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

Sherway is an upscale location with *Holt Renfrew, Pottery Barn, Williams-Sonoma* and many other high-end retailers. It's a destination "fashion" shopping mall since there's fewer "mall rats" and more soccer moms. 

I was thinking to myself that this is a perfect location for Apple and recently digging up the connection of Cadillac-Fairview properties with recent store announcements shows a definite connection between Apple retail and the shopping mall giant.


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

Sayhey said:


> Of note is that this is yet another Cadillac Fairview mall (to go along with Eaton Centre, Le Carrefour Laval, and the rumored Chinook Centre.) The fact all new stores are located in their property, as has already been noted by another poster, can't be a coincidence. If you're looking for likely new locations I'd look here.


Heh, I was the one who deduced this connection...

Here's the evidence of Sherway:


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## RyanA (Nov 20, 2005)

It's good that Canada has no other cities than Toronto.


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## adagio (Aug 23, 2002)

The center of the universe is important.


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## VVA88IT (Aug 21, 2005)

Apologize for my ignorance as I've never been to the Apple stores. My question is do we really need an Apple store? What can we get at the Apple store that we cannot get elsewhere? Do they stock new products quicker?

I always wonder if this was a good move given the costs in operating a retail chain.

Cheers


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## trump (Dec 7, 2004)

drop by Yorkdale and all will become clear, not to mention how much money they're making off of it


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## Sayhey (Nov 11, 2005)

gmark2000 said:


> Heh, I was the one who deduced this connection...


Thanks, I didn't remember who had pointed it out, but wanted to make sure no one thought I was taking credit for noticing the connections. Good catch.


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## Heart (Jan 16, 2001)

8127972 said:


> ... isn't Digital Prototypes in the Sherway area? How does this affect them?


Ouch! That is really close.


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

Thanks, my background in competitive intelligence and public affairs keeps me up on corporate sleuthing. 

Sayhey - I keep wondering if you actually are Gary Allen of ifoApplestore.com. But then you're in San Francisco and he's in Berkeley and you're mostly on the MacRumors forums. Do you have an obsession with discovering Canadian stores?


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

Heart said:


> Ouch! That is really close.


The Prada mom from Lorne Park driving the BMW X5 isn't Digital Gary's customer. It's more like the packaging design firms on the lakeshore or the pre-press outfits in Etobicoke.

The Apple Store is catering to the consumer and small business operator, not the commercial user.


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## trump (Dec 7, 2004)

good point gmark, I had assumed up until now that it was Gary Allen

I had a reason at one point, I think it was when I gave him a tip back about Yorkdale and directed him to a thread. Sayhey had posted in it moments later talking about the info I had sent Gary so I put 2 and 2 together


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## Sayhey (Nov 11, 2005)

No, I'm not Gary, just an avid fan of all things mac, including the stores. Sorry if there was any confusion, but I've never claimed to be Gary or tried to mislead anyone on that score. No particular obsession with Canadian stores, but I've been accused of obsessing over mac news in general and retail stores in particular. I plead guilty. 

Oh, and yes, I'm the same "Sayhey" who posts regularly on the macrumors site. I usually post anything I find first there and then wherever I think people might be interested. I've made the assumption that most folks on these forums aren't that interested in the latest opening in the US (the new Omaha store is big news down here.) 

Speaking of Gary and ifoAppleStore, has anyone else noticed his prediction of an Eaton Centre opening date?



> Expect the construction, store stocking and employee training to be finished around May 6th for the Eaton Centre (Toronto) retail store grand opening.


ifoAppleStore


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## Digital_Gary (Sep 18, 2003)

AHHH too many Gary's in this thread! (really funny part is my middle name is Alan)

As for the new store, who knows how long it will take to get here. It will definitely impact our business but as gmark already said, retail isn't our core business. I will take all the BMW driving Prada Mom's you want to send my way though


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

I've pored-over the site map of Sherway Gardens and can't seem to find any suitable vacancies. I suppose a trip to Sherway is in order to take some reconnaissance pics. (I can go to the TigerDirect outlet across the street too.)


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## 8127972 (Sep 8, 2005)

There's a condo under construction on the south west end of the Sherway property. Also there was some construction on the south end of the mall near Sporting Life that included a new Pickle Barrel (I haven't been there in a month so I have no idea what the status is). Also, there is the possibility that someone is moving out as well.


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## JAMG (Apr 1, 2003)

To me, Apple stores are a great marketing tool for Apple. Bright, seems friendly, but...


my one and only experience at Yorkdale was a casual conversation with someone from the "Genius Bar" who had no practical; experience in graphics or video and could not understand that I wanted to expand the capabilities of my current Mac instead of dumping it all and replacing it with the lastest offerings.

The conviction that Mac users only want the latest version makes the Apple store less attractive to my needs...

Sell me what I want to buy, not what you want to sell...

Other Mac retailers should not fear Apple stores, they will increase the market share by attracting new users. Knowledable people know where to get what they want and know what those parts are worth... Mostly...:heybaby: :heybaby: :heybaby:


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

It's interesting to note that Mac Geniuses are Apple Certified Technicians but many computer technicians are definitely not people persons. Apple must hire on attitude (friendliness) as well as technical acumen. 

Some of these techs aren't Mac freaks and when they punch out at the end of the day, they aren't on the web looking at the latest Apple developments/enhancements.


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

trump said:


> ...they just got the first Canadian Abercrombie...


Jeez another person suffering from "centre of the universe-itis". :yawn: When I was a kid (1985) we lived in Langley, BC and we used to shop at a mall in Vancouver which had an Abercrombie & Fitch store. Recently, my brother-in-law went to West Edmonton Mall and told me they have an A&F store there too. I think you should correctly state "they just got the first _Ontarian _Abercrombie.


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

Bjornbro said:


> ...we used to shop at a mall in Vancouver which had an Abercrombie & Fitch store...


Oakridge Shopping Centre was the very first Abercrombie & Fitch in Canada, indeed. Back then, A&F was more like an outdoor adventure upscale store - like a combination Tommy Bahama/Banana Republic/Tilley store. In the past decade, A&F has rebranded to be youth-oriented sportswear/casual store.


> Abercrombie and Fitch was originally a store that outfitted wealthy businessmen for their outdoor pursuits, and it continued to sell such clothing to this demographic until it was bought by The Limited (which owns Victoria's Secret) in 1988. Under the ownership of The Limited, Abercrombie began to make clothing specifically designed for adolescents from wealthy, suburban families. Abercrombie grew tremendously after establishing themselves as the clothing line of choice for the "prep" clique in suburban high schools all across America. By 1999, they had 300 stores worldwide.


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## trump (Dec 7, 2004)

Bjornbro said:


> Jeez another person suffering from "centre of the universe-itis". :yawn: When I was a kid (1985) we lived in Langley, BC and we used to shop at a mall in Vancouver which had an Abercrombie & Fitch store. Recently, my brother-in-law went to West Edmonton Mall and told me they have an A&F store there too. I think you should correctly state "they just got the first _Ontarian _Abercrombie.


funny, I grew up in Langley, BC as well  I knew about the West Edmonton Mall location, but I'd heard that Sherway opened up just prior - my mistake perhaps? Also I think the A&F you're thinking of is a very different store than the one around now, and they definitely don't have any stores outside of USA and Canada (2 in Toronto and 1 in Edmonton)
http://www.abercrombie.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreLocatorForm


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

trump said:


> I think the A&F you're thinking of is a very different store than the one around now, and they definitely don't have any stores outside of USA and Canada (2 in Toronto and 1 in Edmonton)


It's a century-old brand. The original Abercrombie & Fitch was an adventure outfitter (they outfitted Teddy Roosevelt for rhinoceros hunting). I remember going to Oakridge when the mall was renovated in the 80s and boasted of Abercrombie as a tenant (it's one of Canada's oldest shopping malls opening in 1959). I miss the Woodwards Department Store that was there.


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## miguelsanchez (Feb 1, 2005)

re: A&F - Back in the late 80's there was an A&F store at 111 Richmond St W in Toronto. I got caught trying to inflate a combination fishing vest/life preserver that one of their manequins was sporting, and was promptly escorted out.

re: Sherway - I was just there tonight, and I asked about the Apple Store at the info desk. They don't know anything about it, but the mall itself is going through lots of changes right now, with many stores moving to new locations, so trying to pinpoint where it'll end up is going to be difficult until all of the moves/renovations are complete.


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## 8127972 (Sep 8, 2005)

Just driving on Dundas St. in Mississauga today and spotted the Red Tag sign. I completely forgot they were out near Sherway as well. I bet they (or more accurately their CPUsed masters) aren't happy about this as well. 

BTW, am I the only one who thinks that their location is so out of the way that they don't pop to mind when you think of a Mac store? That can't help them at all.


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

8127972 said:


> BTW, am I the only one who thinks that their location is so out of the way that they don't pop to mind when you think of a Mac store? That can't help them at all.


It might be that you just don't shop at upscale malls to begin with. This is the demographic that Apple Stores are targeting - affluent consumers with disposable incomes, are fashion/trend savvy and who also purchase from retailers like Pottery Barn, Holt Renfrew, Williams-Sonoma, Hollister Co., Abercrombie & Fitch, BCBG Max Azaria, etc... The consumers in the mall are what matter, not necessarily people specifically looking for an Apple retailer.

The fact that the Yorkdale store is always ridiculously packed means that something is going right. The message is being communicated and when I see it there, everyone in the long lineups has product in hand, ready to purchase. The product is properly displayed (as opposed to Best Buy), the staff are somewhat knowledgeable (unlike Compusmart) and new adopters are switching etc... 

What more can you ask for in a mall location? This is a deliberate marketing strategy that is unlike the Gateway Country stores that failed a few years back.

New consumers with fat pocketbooks. Get it?


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## Sayhey (Nov 11, 2005)

It looks like individual job listings for the upcoming Sherway Gardens store are up on monster.com. Still nothing yet on the Calgary rumor.


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## 8127972 (Sep 8, 2005)

gmark2000 said:


> It might be that you just don't shop at upscale malls to begin with. This is the demographic that Apple Stores are targeting - affluent consumers with disposable incomes, are fashion/trend savvy and who also purchase from retailers like Pottery Barn, Holt Renfrew, Williams-Sonoma, Hollister Co., Abercrombie & Fitch, BCBG Max Azaria, etc... The consumers in the mall are what matter, not necessarily people specifically looking for an Apple retailer.
> 
> The fact that the Yorkdale store is always ridiculously packed means that something is going right. The message is being communicated and when I see it there, everyone in the long lineups has product in hand, ready to purchase. The product is properly displayed (as opposed to Best Buy), the staff are somewhat knowledgeable (unlike Compusmart) and new adopters are switching etc...
> 
> ...



I was refering to the location of Red Tag actually.


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

8127972 said:


> I was refering to the location of Red Tag actually.


My bad. End rant. Red Tag is related to CPUsed and they sell used Macs & PCs. The Dundas/Dixie area is a cheapie discount store area, so it seems appropriate for them to be in this area.


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## trump (Dec 7, 2004)

stopped by the Eaton Centre store today, some guy was working on the ceiling by the looks of it...nothing really Applish as of yet


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## 8127972 (Sep 8, 2005)

gmark2000 said:


> My bad. End rant. Red Tag is related to CPUsed and they sell used Macs & PCs. The Dundas/Dixie area is a cheapie discount store area, so it seems appropriate for them to be in this area.



No worries mate.


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## Sayhey (Nov 11, 2005)

Apple's retail recruitment page has finally been updated to include Carrefour Laval and Sherway Gardens.


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## kevs~just kevs (Mar 21, 2005)

How far is Sherway Gardens from Bloor and Islington? I work at the Clerica Centre... is this a possible lunch hour destination for me???


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

kevs~just kevs said:


> How far is Sherway Gardens from Bloor and Islington? I work at the Clerica Centre... is this a possible lunch hour destination for me???


you'd have to grab a bus to get there from islington subway
i think a couple of them go by there
about a 10-15 min. ride i would guess


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## 8127972 (Sep 8, 2005)

kevs~just kevs said:


> How far is Sherway Gardens from Bloor and Islington? I work at the Clerica Centre... is this a possible lunch hour destination for me???


If you take the subway to Kipling Station and take the Sherway 123 bus, it's about 20 minutes (if you hit the connections just right and you don't have to wait). By car it's less than ten.


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## macandrew99 (Mar 10, 2006)

does anyone know when is the Eaton Center store gonna be open?


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

macandrew99 said:


> does anyone know when is the Eaton Center store gonna be open?


ifoapplestore.com reported a May 6th date for the completion of training. Thus, my guess is the Saturday following on May 13 (Mother's day weekend).


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## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

BobbyFett said:


> Makes sense. I see a location at Sherway more appropriate than Yorkdale to be honest.


Though I toally disagree, I will add that Sherway is picking up steam and have a great consumer demo. I have business relationship with a few retailers @ Sherway, and they have given me their perspective on the mall and it's future. As much as I do think that they have nothing but growth ahead of them, they are still no Yorkdale. 

Sherway is serving a great area, and is along that QEW pipeline that sees way too much traffic. Just need to tap into it and things could be pretty explosive. As well, there is continuous housing development in that area, and there's no real slow down that I can see.

Yorkdale is still #1 for me. Services several regions in one shot, and easily accessible (auto and public transit) - uh, it's along the 401. Sherway is still not the easiest to get to - or leave for that matter. @ times, it's like entering a pyramid, and the exit is far from simple - depending on where you're going. 

With that being said, does Toronto need 3 retail doors?? Hey - if they can accommodate it, why not. But as someone mentioned earlier in this thread, all one needs to do is step into the Y/D Apple door and see for themselves.

B-A-N-A-N-A-S.

All the time. I know this cat who works there - insane. He let me in on some of the sales figures: they move product. I work minutes away from there, and I naturally drop in all the time. Wow. Must be the envy of other retailers, let alone computer/electronic shops in that same mall. 

Anyhow, glad to see that things are as they are. Who would have known??

Now - Are the Eaton ctr and Sherway ppl ready for another opening day frenzy??

Great thread btw. Not been out here in a minute - been so busy @ work. 

H!


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## ender78 (Jan 23, 2005)

I have only been to Yordale three times. The third time, around Christmas, I was unable to find parking after looking for over 30 minutes. I find Sherway way more accessible to the Mississauga and Brampton markets, Yorkdale is a fair drive for some of us. I expect myself to visit both the Sherway and Eaton Centre stores, Sherway is closer to home while EC is just up the street from work.


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## macandrew99 (Mar 10, 2006)

I was down in Eaton Center today, and took these 2 pictures!


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

Ohenri said:


> With that being said, does Toronto need 3 retail doors?? Hey - if they can accommodate it, why not.


FWIW, there's reportly no cannibalization of sales between stores:


ifoapplestore said:


> *Still No Cannibalization of Store Sales*
> 
> Apple continues to see no cannibalization of its own retail store sales as it opens additional stores in the same region, according to Apple CFO Peter Oppenheimer at a tech industry conference on Monday. Otherwise he revealed little new information about future Retail segment operation in response to the moderator’s questions, but reiterated there will be about 164 stores open by the end of this September.


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## Ohenri (Nov 7, 2002)

Nice.

gmark, will u make the Eaton opening?? I recall y/d staff asking for you when they opened up. They had been following the thread and were impressed with your details/intel. 

H!


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## zarquon (May 24, 2005)

Just noticed a couple of big construction zones at Sherway - the latest is accross from PotteryBarn, where Grand and Toy and Coles used to be.
There is another one over by the Sony store.
No ads yet as to what is behind the white walls though.
Z.


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