# Mac OS X Server is a ripoff.



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

So, working for an Apple dealer and all, I decided to further my knowledge into my so far unexplored world of Mac OS X Server, and purchased an Apple-certified book on Mac OS X Server v10.4 for about $70, and then noticed Mac OS X Server itself is $599! Ugh.. I can see it being twice the price of Mac OS X Client, but 4-5 times more is getting to the point of irritating. I suppose $599 can't be too terrible if you just purchased a $4k+ Xserve, but I'm sure Xserves include the OS. Sigh.

/rant.


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## Bosco (Apr 29, 2004)

Any idea how much Windoze latest server s/ware is?


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## jasonwood (Oct 19, 2003)

Seems reasonable to me.

"Microsoft Windows Small Business Server 2003 Standard Edition - license" for 5 users is $667 at cdw.ca

20 users is $2397!


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## dthompson101 (Jan 16, 2001)

Its still cheaper than M$ windows 2003 server as posted above.

Join the ACN. Its $599.00 U.S. per year, but with adequate certification you get good pricing on discounted software. In some cases you even get software for free.

Even better, being an Apple Reseller or working for one, contact your Apple Rep and see if they can't get you an NFR copy of Mac OS X Server. They might surprise you on that one...


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## Trevor... (Feb 21, 2003)

I am still in the ASIP world, but Mac OS X Server is a pretty good deal when you consider the fact there in many circumstances there are no CAL's to buy.


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

People generally complain about price when they don't understand the value.


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

> People generally complain about price when they don't understand the value.


i'd be happy if i could understand the acronyms (ACN, NFR, ASIP, CAL's)


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## green_ears (Feb 26, 2005)

Lars said:


> So, working for an Apple dealer and all, I decided to further my knowledge into my so far unexplored world of Mac OS X Server, and purchased an Apple-certified book on Mac OS X Server v10.4 for about $70, and then noticed Mac OS X Server itself is $599! Ugh.. I can see it being twice the price of Mac OS X Client, but 4-5 times more is getting to the point of irritating. I suppose $599 can't be too terrible if you just purchased a $4k+ Xserve, but I'm sure Xserves include the OS. Sigh.
> 
> /rant.


If you want a real server, why don't you just buy the hardware for peanuts and install your favorite flavor of Linux SE for FREE??? Beats all other OSes hands down IMO...


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## ender78 (Jan 23, 2005)

NFR = Not For Resale [often full version of software that cannot be sold, if Apple wants a dealer to play with Aperture for example, they give then an NFR copy to install on machines in their store]. Dealer gets to play with software [making him/her a better salesperson] at no cost to themselves [and without piracy].


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## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

And then, for US$999.00, doesn't that get you _unlimited_ OS X client licences??

_HOLY TOTAL COST OF OWNERSHIP, BATMAN!!_


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## dthompson101 (Jan 16, 2001)

There are a lot of features in Tiger Server. The problem is that a lot of people perhaps don't need them for what they are using it for.

However, Apple has done a couple of nice things with their server platform in that they have compiled a lot of the open source apps so its as simple as clicking in their GUI, configuring and starting or stopping the process.

If one were to download SAMBA and have to compile it, a lot of people would be tied as to how to it all comes together to work. Same thing goes for something as simple as DNS. While its easy to configure all this stuff from the CLI interface, if you don't understand what you are doing and what is happening in the back ground then you will probably never get the server right. Again, this is where Apple has taken an archaic system and made it simple to use.

Yes it can be a touch steep, but then again, a SERVER platform is not the CONSUMER platform and usually people who want to use it have a specific need for it.

$999 for the unlmited license is steep?? Well when compared to say Fedora its cheap, but when compared to Red Hat Enterprise: http://www.redhat.com/en_us/USA/rhel/compare/server/ its still a better value.

The fact that no more CALS are ever needed is a massive bonus. This comes in the form or AFP, SMB, FTP, JABBER, EMAIL, WEB, and so on.

I personally think Mac OS X Server is a best of breed server.

Some simple explanations:
NFS - Not For Resale
ACN - Apple Consultants Network
CLI - Command Line Interface
ASIP - AppleShare IP (The server before Mac OS X)
CALs - Client Access Licenses

Unlimited licensing is good when you are in a large environment and want to keep costs down. There is so much to Apples server hardware that its a good deal regardless.

There is also a lot of hardware based integration with Xserves and Xserve RAIDs that make the Mac OS X Server solution a step above the rest.

My opinion, but Mac OS X Server is basically how I make my living...


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## pcronin (Feb 20, 2005)

Macaholic said:


> And then, for US$999.00, doesn't that get you _unlimited_ OS X client licences??
> 
> _HOLY TOTAL COST OF OWNERSHIP, BATMAN!!_


LOLOLOL... Batman....

That's right, it is actually cheeper than Win Server, b/c out of the box, Windows only has 5 CALs. Depending on what the server is for, I'd say install Linux/*BSD on it. However, since I'll asume you want to learn OS X Server beacuse you'll either be trying to sell it to customers and/or install/suport it for them, go for the NFR copies. 

I used to work at a retailer, and the day before Tiger was released, we had an NFR copy of it and iLife 05 in our grubby little hands. After we wiped the drool off it  we installed it and the sales staff played with it pretty much the entire week.


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## Script Kiddie (Jan 30, 2003)

Lars said:


> ... noticed Mac OS X Server itself is $599! Ugh...


Reality check: software licenses for things like Oracle Enterprise server or BEA Weblogic cost about $20,000/CPU. So a 4xCPU machine: $80K!
A one-time $599 cost is absolutely peanuts in the world of enterprise software.


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## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

Hmmm... anyone into spending an hour crunching the initial and total cost numbers of a server/50 client "switch"?? You should include:


A stock Mac Mini fleet (no aging G3 iMac fleets need apply, thank you)
Using client's existing displays
As the previous system was PeeCees and had PS2 peripherals, you need new USB i/o for the fleet (and the cheapest xServe available), including right-click and scroll-wheel.
MS Office file compatibility, specifically Word and Excel.
Some brand of collaborative scheduling/email server and clienteware, allowing access from both local and the web (as in log in from home).
Perhaps a Filemaker Pro Server and thirty client license?
 Some brand of accounting software, presumably networkable among three people. 
Antivirus software...?? You tell me  This "company" will be occasionally exchanging documents with Windows/Office clients and suppliers. They will, however, use OS X's PDF capabilities for estimates and invoices. 
Estimate the nessesary size and nature of I.T. staff (in-house? out-sourced?)
Deployment costs.

Notice that this is not a "Microsoft obligatory" estimate; only Word & Excel compatibility is required. All other software not mentioned by brand must be produced by well established companies whose life expectancy I can reasonably trust. Shareware written by some guy in a basement in Italy won't cut it.

Did I miss anything? I am sure I did.

Might there already be such detailed "case studies" out there on the web? Who's up to this??


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## dthompson101 (Jan 16, 2001)

Macaholic said:


> Hmmm... anyone into spending an hour crunching the initial and total cost numbers of a server/50 client "switch"?? You should include:
> 
> 
> A stock Mac Mini fleet (no aging G3 iMac fleets need apply, thank you)
> ...



I totally don't follow you here. A lot of companies need windows on the front end but the back end does not require the cost or problems associated with their servers. I can take you to numerous sites that have Xserves on the backend but Windows clients on the front. The users don't even know they are logging onto a Mac server (outside of the fact that the damned things never crash!)

With Mac OS X Server, you can use it to be your PDC (and BDC) and not have to pay a nickle more all the while keeping your users with their current environment the same.

Just becuase you drop in an Xserve(s) on the infrastructure does not mean you have to make a whole company wide desktop migration.


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## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

Well, my post was just for fun, really. But is there still a possibility of hassle when you have Windows clients, regardless of the server? There's data -- and malware -- potentially flying in and out of company's networks, from server to client in and out, all the time. Is having only the server non-Windows going to protect them?


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## dthompson101 (Jan 16, 2001)

I understand that your post is just for fun, but I think it would be good to put something like that together.

While having the xserve in the backend won't stop viruses form populating on the desktop, the advantage is that the server itself won't be brought down by viruses and will guarantee almost a 100% uptime becuase of this fact.

There are still stop measures to be put into place such as virus protection and the like on the client side.

That being said, your previous post is a good thing to look into. How much does a company save by moving to entirely mac based services. Virus protection purchase and subscriptions are some of the things that would no longer be neede on a site wide basis....I am sure there are many other saving included in there as well.


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## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

dthompson101 said:


> I understand that your post is just for fun, but I think it would be good to put something like that together... How much does a company save by moving to entirely mac based services. Virus protection purchase and subscriptions are some of the things that would no longer be neede on a site wide basis....I am sure there are many other saving included in there as well.


Well, Mr. "ACSA - ACTC - Authorized Reseller", you tell us!


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