# Lack of respect to authority figures disgusts me..



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

I'm not even sure how to describle what I feel over people that disrespect law enforcement authority figures, especially when it's without cause, and especially when it's the _youth_ that do it. I'm going to leave names out of the equation, for privacy purposes, but I recently was told a story about a confrontation between a number of under 20 aged youth and a number of police officers. In that confrontation, half the youth were under the influence, and feeling "brave" enough to insult the officers that showed up, and became aggressive. By night's end, half them were arrested, and the so-called "party" overthrown by the police. They come days later, and call the police "massive di$ks" for doing what they did, and even call police brutality. Are you *kidding me?* Oh, I'm sorry, I never realized police officers had to respect you as you spit in their face. Then, when they arrest you with force, you cry wolf. Wow.

Then, there are those few who take serious offense when they're mistakenly marked as someone you aren't by the police. Back in Halifax, I was coming back in my car from a park one late night, with a buddy of mine, and passed a police car on the way down. The police turned around, and had me pulled over less than a minute later -- at the time, I had no idea what I did wrong, and I wasn't speeding. Apparently, they were looking for a couple of people doing not-so-nice-things in a car that looked like mine, so he had reason to pull me over. Since my windows are tinted, he asked if he could search the car. Without question, I allowed him to. Unsurprising, after telling that story to a number of people, more than half the people replied, "I would have never let the cop search my car." "It's not his right." "He had no reason to do what he did or say or suspect what he did." 

Shows to me that being pulled over, apparently, is a big blow to one's ego, even if you're not at fault. I had nothing to hide, and refusing his request would only increase his suspicion of me.


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## ComputerIdiot (Jan 8, 2004)

Sometimes it's just theatrics. A couple of decades ago, I was training in journalism and went to cover a protest in Toronto ... which, incidentally, was an illegal one, the protesters having refused to get a permit on the grounds that that was a degrading demand of a male chauvinist society, or somesuch reason.

At one point a woman starting spray-painting something on the sidewalk or the curb. A police officer told her to stop. She went on spray-painting. Two officers pulled her to her feet, took away her toys and started to walk her away ... she immediately went limp and started wailing, "POLICE BRUTALITY!"

I _almost_ took a photograph ... before my brain engaged and I decided I wasn't there to "report" on an obviously choreographed non-event.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

during my last trip to Toronto, just this past Friday, i stopped in front of a store, on kingston rd, that carried "things nautical" thinking it might be a good place for me to get things to decorate my home

the storekeeper tells me sees the parking authority and i run out to find a parking authority guy, who dressed very much like a police officer, literally racing me to my car
i tell him i'm just leaving, he arrives out of breath and pulls a ticket from some gizmo on his belt

i ask him why he did that knowing i was at my car door with keys in hand and about to leave
he approaches me angrily, and about 1 foot from my face tells me i'm the "jerk" who just got a 30 dollar ticket because my "ass" was in a no parking zone

during this very excited "explanation" his spittle hit my face

i pointed out his spittle and he denied spitting on me, but told me he would call for "backup" and began to reach for some communication device on his shoulder

i asked him again why he spit on me and he again denied spitting on me

he then very excitedly said if i continued talking to him he would call for backup and have me arrested, again reaching for the communication device on his shoulder

realizing i was in a no win situation, (discretion being the better part of valour and all that) i turned around and went to my car
and yelled back over my shoulder; "I'm glad they didn't give you a gun" to which he yelled; "At least I'm not the jerk with a 30 dollar ticket"

talk to me again about respecting authority?


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

I dunno about respect for authority but I opt for playing it cool around the cops. If I meet a cop who's having a bad day the last thing I need to go is give him some lip. Heck, if I meet a cop who's a reasonable and courteous sort I _still_ play it cool and let them do their thing. It's a situation you can't win anyway, so better to take the zen road.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

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## gwillikers (Jun 19, 2003)

MasterBlaster said:


> The Vancouver Police deserve no respect.


I just knew you couldn't resist Dwayne.  
Honestly, I don't blame you for speaking out after what you've experienced.
-Howie


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## Jeepdude (Mar 3, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> during my last trip to Toronto, just this past Friday, i stopped in front of a store, on kingston rd, that carried "things nautical" thinking it might be a good place for me to get things to decorate my home
> 
> the storekeeper tells me sees the parking authority and i run out to find a parking authority guy, who dressed very much like a police officer, literally racing me to my car
> i tell him i'm just leaving, he arrives out of breath and pulls a ticket from some gizmo on his belt
> ...



OH, PLEASE!!!! PLEASE file a complaint about this!

My blood is boiling, and it didn't even happen to me!!! 

I have a lot of respect for police--they deal with the "ugly" end of society most of their day, but this sort of crap (they AREN'T police) just sends me...

The Star and the Sun would love to hear a story like this...


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Jeepdude said:


> OH, PLEASE!!!! PLEASE file a complaint about this!
> 
> My blood is boiling, and it didn't even happen to me!!!
> 
> ...


filing a complaint with the police is useless
lots of time and energy on my part only to get absolutely ZERO out of it
when it comes to all things police related the assumption is that the civilians are guilty until absolutely proven innocent

as for the star or sun, it might make for good copy for a news cycle, but might also make me and my red beamer a target for future visits to the GTA

bottom line, you can fight city hall, but you can't fight guys with guns


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

The police in Toronto--and the no-accounts they have involved in parking control-are on a full-scale money grab at the behest of the incompetent David Miller. 

I have had them trying to write me a ticket as I walked 30 feet from the car, 10 seconds after I had JUST PARKED to the meter. As I'm walking back with the ticket I tell the idiot to stop writing me a ticket and he's ARGUING with me that only if I show him that I ALREADY have a valid receipt in my hand he MIGHT cancel the violation. I happened to have the receipt, but realized that he would have written the ticket if I had turned to stop him before the money went in the meter. After five minutes the dork finally tore up the ticket.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Respect is EARNED, not automatic.

Police and other authorities often show little respect for those they SERVE.
Bullies and badges are too often associated and that same "toughness" that can serve well in one situation can be disastrous in another.

I don't believe one can broadbrush entirely but civilian oversight and training in racial neutrality I feel are vital to keep the "bully with the badge" syndrome in check.

Both Toronto and Peel police forces have spotty records.

As to search your car - if you want t let your hard won civil rights be breached by all means.....that's your right as well.
I would NEVER have let an office search my vehicle under those circumstances.

Did the officer thank you??

Next time you get all warm and fuzzy about police have a look at the Democratic National Convention photos from Chicago in 1968 and tell me again about "automatic respect".

Police are a hired gang to keep other unlawful gangs in check. Police gangs too often also break the law in a variey of ways. Police are there to serve society and enforce the law. In my mind, accord any officer the same respect level YOU GET.

That said a polite request to "search" a vehicle for no reason should in my mind be met with an equally polite no.
They need to state clearly what the purpose of the search is.
Would you let police into your apartment or home??


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## zoziw (Jul 7, 2006)

> Since my windows are tinted, he asked if he could search the car. Without question, I allowed him to.


So would I.

There is a video on the net of some guy who put a hidden camera in his car as he went through a checkstop. The cop asked him where he was going and the guy responded "None of your business".

The cops got suspicious and had him get out of the car and questioned him for 20 minutes. According to people on the net I'm supposed to be outraged by this.

If I was a cop who had asked 20 people where they were headed and they all told me and then some guy gets evasive over the question, I'd get suspicious as well.

Everytime I've been through a checkstop, if the cops ask me where I was and where I am going to, I tell them, it isn't like I've got anything to hide. I'm on my way in seconds.


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

Macfury said:


> The police in Toronto--and the no-accounts they have involved in parking control-are on a full-scale money grab at the behest of the incompetent David Miller.


They have been on their full-scale money grab long before David Miller. He is just continuing the long tradition voluntary taxation.


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## TroutMaskReplica (Feb 28, 2003)

i left the city of toronto for etobicoke (permanently) because the parking thugs are out of control. i've had tickets where for example, my car had to be out of the zone by let's say 9am and i arrive at 8:55 with a ticket with an issue time of 9:00am.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Z - that's different than searching a car and it was the guy's attitude that got him noticed.
Had he just said something vague like "going home" - no issue.

But searching private property without cause is not on in my view.

On checkpoints like DUI the idea is to check for drinking to asking where you have been and have you been drinking is part of that procedure.

Random stops are increasingly being forbidden.....with good reason as it's an invitation for discrimination.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

The police is not corrupt they are simply doing their jobs, put yourselves in their shoes during these situations and figure out what would you do, it's not going to be any different than what they're doing.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

MacDoc said:


> Respect is EARNED, not automatic.


Right, so you talk to a complete stranger with utter contempt until you get to know them? :lmao:

Try taking a walk in their shoes for a day and tell me they don't deserve any respect.


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## darkscot (Nov 13, 2003)

zoziw said:


> So would I.
> 
> There is a video on the net of some guy who put a hidden camera in his car as he went through a checkstop. The cop asked him where he was going and the guy responded "None of your business".
> 
> ...


This is nuts. It isn't the cops business. Period. Your parents get to ask you that type of question before you become an adult. I totally agree with MacDoc. Respect must be earned. Cops can be pigs like anybody else. Have you ever "off the record" asked a cop why he wanted to be a cop? You might be surprised by some of the answers you get. 

You're welcoming with open arms a big brother, 1984 state.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Both sides are right of course. Many citizens would rather shout "police brutality" than do the right thing. There are of course police officers who would rather break the law than enforce it. It takes all kinds as they say.

I personally know of a police officer who arrested an otherwise good-natured and civil person for a minor offence, and having seated him across from his desk to ask a few questions turned his back for a second. The man broke his leg and he spent the next six weeks in a cast and wasn't out arresting anybody. Nicest cop you'll meet and not just because we're related. But this came out of the blue, as it were.

So if you find yourself arrested for a minor offense, and handcuffed to something immobile while the police type out your personal data, you have that leg-breaker to thank.

-------------

I know of another situation, this one north of Toronto, involving a police officer who coaches sports. He says that one day he gave someone a ticket for driving too fast, and erratically, and the man claimed he was only getting it because he was of a different ethnicity.

This officer then asked the man to look through the equipment that gauges a car's speed, without having moved or changed it, looking back over the same distance, and tell him either the ethnicity or even the sex of the people driving the cars. The man stopped complaining about the ticket.

-------------

While nothing excuses a parking officer, or even a real cop, from copping an attitude while they give you a parking ticket, parking in a no-parking zone is sometimes an offense for a reason. Be happy if you aren't towed as well.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

MacDoc: just as long as you know not to sputter on about civilian oversight and police arrogance once a car has pulled you over for a ticket. It's a small price to pay, holding your tongue for a few minutes so as not to steam up the chap in the uniform. You know, cops _love_ to get lectures from quaking-mad civvies insisting they're there to serve them.

I might have said this before in here but maybe three years ago I got nabbed doing 75 in a 50 zone - zooming up over the Don River on Front Street. Got to the top of the overpass and bam - Done deal. I knew the copper had me dead to rights. So I'm pulling over and I'm fumbling in my back pocket for my wallet. Cop starts yelling at me to stop what I'm doing and put both hands on the steering wheel. He already has his hand on his holster and he was, if anything, more nervous than I, but he covered that with his bark. You know what? I'm just not going to give this guy any lip. It would serve no purpose other than to make a bad experience worse. As soon as he saw that I was not trying to get my own (fictional) weapon he was more pleasant to deal with.

The guy was a stern fellow in his fifties... probably a career veteran. I'm sure he has seen a lot of stuff. At first I thought he was overreacting to my move. Now I think I am wiser to give him the benefit of the doubt. In any case, there was no question at the time that I would comply. His moving to pull his gun spooked me terribly.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> Right, so you talk to a complete stranger with utter contempt until you get to know them?


No I reply in kind....as you well know. Recall the officer is approaching ME - not the other way around.
I've been there and the guy that mouthed me and showed me disrespect - even throwing the keys in the car instead of handing them to me at the border got raked by his superior an hour later.
Was not the first time this had happened his superior told me.

The officers - who I knew - were standing near by shaking their heads at the idiot.

Respect is earned. I reply in kind.

••

Max - you are talking entirely different circumstances - you were pulled over for a reason.

and

see above. I sweet talk a cop when I'm caught ( rarely have to ) and most are unfailing polite. I most often simply acknowledge my lapse and see what they do. Most give a warning or a reduced ticket.

A no reason pull over or search is dead wrong and to strengthen rights needs to be questioned every time.


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## zoziw (Jul 7, 2006)

> Had he just said something vague like "going home" - no issue.


I agree.



> But searching private property without cause is not on in my view.


If I was in a similar situation as the OP, I'd let them search my car.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

As is your right....I wouldn't as is my right and I'd bet any decent cop would respect that.

They have to have reason under law and just as they expect me to abide by the rules.....I expect them to.

A customers inspector has the right to search a vehicle without cause. Police do not.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

HowEver said:


> While nothing excuses a parking officer, or even a real cop, from copping an attitude while they give you a parking ticket, parking in a no-parking zone is sometimes an offense for a reason. Be happy if you aren't towed as well.


From the "be happy they didn't knock out a tooth as well" school of thought?

Most of the parking "offences" in Toronto involve the application of arbitrary laws anyway. What's the harm in parking for 10 minutes on a deserted street at 2:00 a.m.? It's just a cash shakedown.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

It's a cash cow AND a parking abuse control.
Just like the LCBO is a cash cow and a substance control method.

One car at 2 am becomes a street full in a very short time.
See Italy.


Social engineering.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

MacDoc: Let them ticket someone for parking for an hour or more on a deserted street. Some reasonable accommodation is called for to suit the fact that Toronto operates for 24 hours out of 24.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

MacDoc said:


> I sweet talk a cop when I'm caught ( rarely have to ) and most are unfailing polite. I most often simply acknowledge my lapse and see what they do. Most give a warning or a reduced ticket.
> 
> A no reason pull over or search is dead wrong and to strengthen rights needs to be questioned every time.


Yes, I was pulled over for a reason. Bear in mind that cops _do_ get jokers who insist that the cop should have pulled buddy two cars up over because _he_ was doing 5 klicks an hour faster... if people are already having a bad day they'll readily project that onto a cop. Some people are just sore they got caught, and what do they do? Mouth off to the cop that they should be catching a bank robber or something more... worthwhile.

But glad to hear you are polite. I've generally done the same and therefore have been able to drive off with a warning or at least a reduced ticket. Not that I make it a habit of speeding my brains out anymore these days... at any rate, when you are pulled over for no reason the trick is to stay on that mental tight-rope where you are able to safely question the cop without pushing his or her buttons. Not an easy task in such a charged atmosphere.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

Macfury said:


> MacDoc: Let them ticket someone for parking for an hour or more on a deserted street. Some reasonable accommodation is called for to suit the fact that Toronto operates for 24 hours out of 24.


Agreed. It's a cash shakedown. You should have an hour to park on a deserted street at two in the morning... what's the harm in that? Well, we all know that _this_ method guarantees lots of cashola in the city coffers...


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

MF - that's 
a) individual officers
b) something to take up with council - the PC are just following the rules.

MF I'm surprised - thougth you were in favour of creative money raising by the city - voluntary taxation is wonderful.....buy them lottery tickets too while you are at it.

••

Max - Of course - I don't envy cops their task and try to be sensitive to that but you can politely keep your rights intact.
A decent cop will understand that.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

Quite right. Last time I was nabbed for speeding downtown, two years ago now, the young cop actually apologized and then commended me for being so courteous and responsive to him. I thought I was on a parallel planet.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Yeah and THAT behaviour needs to be rewarded as much as rude or unlawful/questionable behaviour challenged.

Did you call the division and have a positive report put on his record??
Think about it next time.


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

I fought the parking ticket that I got a year ago while getting some cakes for my god son's birthday party and I won, the judge said that the officer was out of line and should have just waited the 2 minutes that it was going to take to load up the truck and leave. So what did this get the city? I got the ticket, I fought it, I wasted the courts time(the judge also said this) and I won, all that for a $30.00 ticket that probably cost the city allot more than that in paperwork and court time. WOW Miller you're my friggin hero.

Laterz


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## MissGulch (Jul 20, 2005)

K_OS said:


> I fought the parking ticket that I got a year ago while getting some cakes for my god son's birthday party and I won, the judge said that the officer was out of line and should have just waited the 2 minutes that it was going to take to load up the truck and leave. So what did this get the city? I got the ticket, I fought it, I wasted the courts time(the judge also said this) and I won, all that for a $30.00 ticket that probably cost the city allot more than that in paperwork and court time. WOW Miller you're my friggin hero.
> 
> Laterz


I'm ornery like this, too, and successfully fought a $20 parking ticket a couple of weeks ago. No authority-lover here. 

Congrats, I like your style. :clap:


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

K_OS said:


> WOW Miller you're my friggin hero.


Like I mentioned earlier, parking tickets didn't begin under David Miller. These so called 'injustices' have been going on for a long time. Many many Mayors...

I have spent many $$ on parking tickets. What do I do now? Pay for parking. It's cheaper, less worrisome and way less frustrating.

If you can't and have extenuating circumstances, tell it to the Judge. That simple.


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## MissGulch (Jul 20, 2005)

mrjimmy said:


> If you can't and have extenuating circumstances, tell it to the Judge. That simple.


My "extenuating circumstance" was the ticket's wrong date. I was in a bank opening up a business checking account which takes *forever* and I was parked in a 1-hour zone. I overstayed by about 10 minutes and got a ticket, but it had yesterday's date, and I had proof in the form of my deposit slip. KA-CHING!

Always scrutinize the ticket for errors, as a flawed ticket should be automatically nullified. At least this is the NY State law.


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

MissGulch said:


> My "extenuating circumstance" was the ticket's wrong date. I was in a bank opening up a business checking account which takes *forever* and I was parked in a 1-hour zone. I overstayed by about 10 minutes and got a ticket, but it had yesterday's date, and I had proof in the form of my deposit slip. KA-CHING!
> 
> Always scrutinize the ticket for errors, as a flawed ticket should be automatically nullified. At least this is the NY State law.


Perfect. That's what I call extenuating! It's Ontario law as well.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

I've had at least one bad ticket for parking overnight on my own street! Sometimes they just get it wrong. But it's still a pain to have to go and get it cleared up... the onus remains on the 'gettee' to do the legwork. Steams you up when you've done nothing wrong.


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

mrjimmy said:


> Like I mentioned earlier, parking tickets didn't begin under David Miller. These so called 'injustices' have been going on for a long time. Many many Mayors...
> 
> I have spent many $$ on parking tickets. What do I do now? Pay for parking. It's cheaper, less worrisome and way less frustrating.
> 
> If you can't and have extenuating circumstances, tell it to the Judge. That simple.


actually I did pay for parking before I went to pick up the cakes I paid and walked almost a full block to the bakery to pay for them and returned to the bakery only to pick them up only to find a parking officer writing me a ticket I showed the officer the parking stub and all she said was "show it to a judge" so I did and won and I laughed my ass off at her when we both walked out of the court room, she actually showed up.

Laterz


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## MissGulch (Jul 20, 2005)

There was a recent scandal on Long Island over parking meters that ran too fast. If their equipment is faulty and you get a ticket, it's your problem.

Bellerose parking

So much for respecting the "authorities."


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> So much for respecting the "authorities."


Yep give them the respect they EARN


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

What does this have to do with David Miller?

I hope you ascribe culpability to city officials for good things too.




K_OS said:


> I fought the parking ticket that I got a year ago while getting some cakes for my god son's birthday party and I won, the judge said that the officer was out of line and should have just waited the 2 minutes that it was going to take to load up the truck and leave. So what did this get the city? I got the ticket, I fought it, I wasted the courts time(the judge also said this) and I won, all that for a $30.00 ticket that probably cost the city allot more than that in paperwork and court time. WOW Miller you're my friggin hero.
> 
> Laterz


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

MacDoc said:


> MF I'm surprised - thougth you were in favour of creative money raising by the city .


No. I've consistently said they spend too much and should be giving money BACK to Torontonians.


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