# Strange Powermac g5



## comprehab (May 28, 2005)

I purchased a used powermac G5 (dual2.0 w/4gb ram) from a dealer in the GTA last week. The price was decent, warranty was not bad, but the machine arrived not as described. I am very disappointed in the dishonest way they do business there.

The first thing i noticed was that the machine had no serial number (on both hardware and looking in system profiler) Is this normal? How can I check if applecare is still available without any serial number? 
The machine package i purchased stated Tiger and iLife '06 were included, but in the box all I found was a burned copy of Tiger. That is illegal, no?

When I got the machine I contacted them about these problems. 
They told me it costs an extra $180 if you want original copies of the software...
They also said the no-serial number thing is normal...

Wondering how you guys would handle this...


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## JumboJones (Feb 21, 2001)

That doesn't smell right at all.


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## kent (Oct 18, 2003)

I've read that sometimes if a logic board is replaced, the s/n does not appear in the system profiler. I read this recently ... either here or on the Apple forums. Does the G5 case have a s/n [I believe it's on the bottom]? If it has been scratched off or looks to be tampered with then it may be hot. As for the Tiger disk, burning a copy of Tiger and giving it to you was nice and all, but illegal. Look for the s/n on the bottom of the case and get back to me.


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## kent (Oct 18, 2003)

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=605369&#605369

Here's one discussion ... a simple search on the Apple forums yield a lot of discussion about this. If the s/n is actually missing from the case ... that's more of a concern.


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## comprehab (May 28, 2005)

Yes, the SN appears to have been removed from the bottom of the case.


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## kwarwick (Jan 17, 2006)

I believe the serial number is on a sticker that's visible once you remove the side cover plate. I don't recall seeing any other serial numbers on my Dual G5.

Karl


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## comprehab (May 28, 2005)

Yes, i know where the serial number should be- and its not there. The Sticker has been cleanly removed.


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

every mac should come with the OS, since the OS was included with the computer when it was originally bought... can you please tell us who this store is so we can avoid them? i sure want to. i don't like the sounds of any of that.


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## mr.steevo (Jul 22, 2005)

Hi,

I wonder what Apple Canada would have to say about this company selling burned copies of their OS? Why not ask them and give them the name of the company?

s.


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## kwarwick (Jan 17, 2006)

comprehab said:


> Yes, i know where the serial number should be- and its not there. The Sticker has been cleanly removed.


Then I'd be very concerned about the history of this Mac. As you probably realize with no serial number you will not be able to get warranty coverage (from Apple) or buy AppleCare for it. It kinda sounds like this computer was either built up from parts, or had case replacement, or its stolen. What does the seller say about the lack of a serial number on the case?

Karl


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## kent (Oct 18, 2003)

My bad ... the s/n is where the door panel tab fits into the case i.e. just below the plexi air deflector. That should never be removed ... and I'm sure it's difficult to remove too.

If it isn't there two things are possible:

A] the case was replaced [you'd have to check with Apple to see if new cases come with a s/n]

B] It's stolen ...


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## MacDaddy (Jul 16, 2001)

when a logic board is replaced by Apple, it will come with a new sticker to cover the old one, I had to do this numerous times when I worked at a reseller. It should still show up in System Profiler. 

I would return this machine and get your money back from them. Smells way to fishy to me.


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## kent (Oct 18, 2003)

I would definitely get your cash back ... if it was stolen, you don't want to deal with that b/c if you goto the police they'll confiscate it and you'll lose all your money. I would just tell these guys that the machine has no s/n and you want your money back. If they're smart, they'll see what you're implying ["you dudes sold me stolen $hit] and they'll give you your money back.


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## CN (Sep 3, 2004)

Very suspicious...I have received burned media when buying from a reseller as well (disappointing!) but have never experienced the removed SN (which fairly screams that it is stolen, and even if its not, then your warranty coverage is down the drain anyway).

BTW it would be nice to know where you bought this from...I would want to avoid them (even if you don't want to post openly, please PM me) as I'm currently dealing with a reseller in the GTA (possibly...).


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## JPL (Jan 21, 2005)

Sure doesn't smell right in any way. Take it back period. I two would like to know from whence this came so as to be aware when purchasing from them.


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## speckledmind (Jan 12, 2005)

comprehab said:


> The machine package i purchased stated Tiger and iLife '06 were included, but in the box all I found was a burned copy of Tiger. That is illegal, no?
> They also said the no-serial number thing is normal...
> Wondering how you guys would handle this...


Please, Do Read On...
I hope this helps you.

Copies ( Pirated ) software from a store is a big nono, if it came installed in the CPU, they might be able to get away with it, but if the purchase info says supplied iLife06 and Tiger, you should have it in hand, as an original software package CD for iLife06 and DVD for Tiger.

The serial number is for sure not normal, it should at least be on the CPU, even if it had the mother board replaced, Apple keep track of replaced parts on your CPU, if things have not changed with Apple, when you take your CPU in for repairs at an Apple certified shop, the technician will punch in the serial number of the CPU, through a direct link ( Internet connection ) with Apple, and it will give him an " Covered " or " Not Covered " for the needed repairs.

With all hopes that you have a paper trail on this purchase, and all exchanged information, e-mail, Intent link of the offered item ( Print it out in color right away ), before the purchase and until now, sales and delivery slip, read the following.

From past experience, I will sum it up, It’s happened to me, it might be happening to you ???
Live and learn they say !

The positive side ;
Contact the store in question who sold you the computer package, and ask for the proper items that where suppose to be included, be sent to you pronto, better yet, pick them up, also ask for all relevant information on the computer's background be supplied, such as previous serial numbers, repairs and so on, if all of this comes to you, do a background check on the CPU through Apple ( yes they will help you out ) to see if in fact it is covered by Apple Care, also ask the store in question to provide you with the confirmation ( on there letterhead ) of the Apple Care being covered on this actual CPU, plus the present serial number of the CPU then you should be fine.
Why the confirmation on letterhead, proof for future repairs, if they refuse this request, then you move onto the next step ( see below ).

The negative Side :
If you do not get the serial number ( or numbers ) and original software that you are suppose to have, and the confirmation of the Apple Care on the actual CPU, tell the store in writing of the following, give them 5 working days through a " REGISTERED " letter to make due, and do tell them that you will file with the OPP, then follow up on this ( empty treats lead nowhere , and unregistered letters mean nothing ), contact the OPP, and declare this as a possible fraud / theft sale, ( it will be treated as a theft case, because of the shady serial thing ), plus copyright infringements because you have been given copied " pirated " software from a retailer, you will file a report and the OPP will take it from there ( please read bellow ).
The OPP will ask you for all information on this sale, such as all documents relating to the sale ( prior ) and until now, including e-mails, the add, or link to this CPU being offered for sale ( have everything ready and bring it with you when you file, professionals get treated professionally ), If your computer does not have a background of serial numbers, it will be treated as possible theft ( for sure ), and since the copied software come from a Reatil store ( instead of an individual ), the OPP will act quickly on this ( it’s called a copyright infringement fine if I am not mistaken, and it costs big time $$$ ).
If the store is an Apple retailer, contact Apple, and give them the same information as you would to the OPP, plus the OPP filling report number, and they will take it from there also ( the store will loose there Apple retail and repair license ).

Since I do not want to send you blindly in this OPP and Apple venture, read the following, BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING, PLEASE BE AWARE OF THE FOLLOWING : 
Option A ) You can sit it out and hope for the best, as most people do, and possibly get SCFRE&%#% in a short or long run ( because of the missing serial number on the CPU ).
Option B ) If you do go ahead with the OPP and Apple report, you will probably have your computer taken from you during the OPP investigation ( it's called evidence ), if it turns out that it is stolen, but that might be difficult to prove, you will loose it, and will have to take things to small claims court against the store who sold it to you, if you have all the information stated above on the sale, you will win your case in small claims court, get your funds back ( plus damages and expenses ), the store will loose more than you think $$$, and you will help yourself.
You will also help others in the future that deal with stores that do these shady " Possible " ( because it has not yet been proved ) things.
The OPP thing, can be a slow process, that is why very few people file, shady people know this and bank on it BIG TIME $$$.

I was taken in the past by fraud / theft, and this above thing is what I went through.
If it helps you or any other member in the future, GREAT, if you decide to sit on it and just let the course of thing go on, it will happen again, maybe not to you, but to others for sure.
The only way to shut down these possible shady characters, is to File and declare them.

Without sounding like I went nuts with this issue, think of this, to many get taken in and brush it off, they do not want to tell anyone, in fear of being laughed at and or ridiculed, they suffer quietly ( $$$ ).

If this is a simple case of a misunderstanding, it will be resolved in a gentleman way, before or as soon as they get the registered letter, if not, you decide, it’s your $$$

My 2.3 cents.

Denis

PS : The .3 cents of my post, as for the Fraud / Theft ( Copyright ) that I went through, they where selling online ( World Wide ), I started up filling with the Provincial Police, then I was asked to file with the RCMP ( Web ), Interpol ( Web ) and US Government Agencies such as FBI ( Web ).
Did I take it to far, NO ! ! I followed normal asked procedures.
The final result, I lost Time and Money ( the purchase price of the item ), but they lost there business, just because I filed, and for once, the system did it's thing after I filed.

Do I still buy Online, YEP.
Because some individuals are shady, it does not mean that everyone is, we just need to shut down the shady ones, and be cautious “ Buyer Beware “.

How to futher protect yourself from online purchases ;

A ) NEVER, NEVER, NEVER give out your Bank info.

B ) Get a small limit credit card for online purchased ( $100.00 Max. ) and when you need to make a larger purchase than your limit, phone the Card ( Bank ) account and ask that they increase your limit on this purchase only, and you are covered in the event that something should go wrong.
If something does go wrong, tell yourself that you are only in ( temporarily for $100.00 ), for those who do not know, the Bank will eventually refund you, because online purchases have to be proved by the seller ie; a signature on the sale slip and delivery slip that match your signature, and the best thing of all, is that the bank does all the work, and it’s up to the seller to prove the sale, not you, the bank will send you a copy of the sale slip by mail, and you have to approve it, if your signature i not on the slip or does not match, the seller get's nothing, you get your funds back, and life goes on, Nice isn't it ??? I just wish the banks would make this info public, instead having people sweat it out, then the shady sellers would be up the creek without a paddle.


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## Chealion (Jan 16, 2001)

comprehab - Have you been able to get this worked out?


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Does anyone else get the impression that the price was, as they say, far too good to be true?

I hope it works out for comprehab, really. If stores will scam people with illegal software and stolen parts, it's no wonder unknown foreigners will as well.

Just today I bought a computer part from someone through usedmac, who also sold their entire G5 iMac through there--to a scammer. About a month ago. They've been "in constant contact" but I just explained that every day that they are in contact, and she's waiting for a payment, it's another day the scammer doesn't have to worry about the police at the door.

Not that they would be too worried. It was a Fedex pickup arranged by the scammer, with a tracking number for a USPS money order. Of course, no such arrangement exists in any variation, in reality. The Fedex pickup went to "NG" which Fedex assured her was a place in the U.S. Really.

Next, after she complained that the money order hadn't arrived, the scammer said he would send a $5000 cheque and she could cash it and draw her funds out of it, then return the rest. Thankfully, she didn't add a $5K fraud to the already purloined iMac.


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## VNJ85 (Feb 24, 2006)

Was this an ebay purchase? your story is raising several warning flags in my mind.


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## NBiBooker (Apr 3, 2004)

Wow, another reason to buy direct from Apple or from a well, well, well known reseller.


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## stephen.oatright (Apr 5, 2006)

Hello,

Instances of piracy, especially at the vendor/reseller level, should be reported to CAAST.

https://reporting.bsa.org/caast/home.aspx

Best,

Stephen

PS:*What are the penalties for pirating software in Canada?*
If caught with pirated software, the infringing company may be liable under both civil and criminal law.
A civil action may be instituted for injunctive relief, actual damages (including infringer's profits), or statutory damages of $20,000 or more per copyrighted work infringed. Criminal penalties for copyright infringement include fines up to $1,000,000 and jail terms up to five years, or both."


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

Sooooooooo what's going on?


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## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

Good question, PB. Any developments on the piracy front? Or, the inexplicable manipulation of its serial number?


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## wtl (Mar 15, 2006)

I would return the computer - if you can.

If they are providing burned copies of the OS, which is illegal, *and* the serial number is missing, it doesn't make me feel very confident about the company.

If they don't budge, contact Apple Canada regarding the company. Maybe they can be of assistance to you.

Good luck.


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## ericssonboi (Jan 26, 2005)

I'm interested in an update also..


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## DS (Oct 7, 2004)

Me too, me too! I want to hear.

Personally I wouldn't care about the burned Tiger, it's the lack of serial number that gets me, and the possible ramifications if warranty work is required.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Yea that's pretty shady. I suppose there would be times when a dealer would 'do something' to help you out... But my opinion is if the machine was advertised as coming with tiger, it definitely should come with orignal media. Period. And no serial number on the machine?

What is up with that...


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Funny how this has to be the worst kept secret....

Like many, I'm not 100% pleased with the situation and I don't think "outting" the dealer will help comprehab at this point. 
The software situation is a little sketchy, granted, and you do expect more from Mac dealers. This could of been a "favor". I'm not saying it's okay, but on the PC side this happens so often it's to the point where certain clients expect free "special" software. 

As for the machine not having a serial number this does not mean it's stolen. If you resell a machine that was build from refurds/parts from DOA machines/off lease (basically bits and pieces from other machines), you'd have to remove the serial number.

The guarantee would be a dealer one.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

Not having a serial number could also mean that they are school computers
that were bought under an education discount and the school might not want them
to be traced back to them.

Or maybe the PC government made a mistake and bought the right computers by
accident and decided to sell them to buy the wrong computers.
Taking off the serial numbers makes them untraceable back to their boondoggle.

Or they are stolen and the supplier doesn't want them to be traced.

D


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

dolawren said:


> Not having a serial number could also mean that they are school computers
> that were bought under an education discount and the school might not want them
> to be traced back to them.
> 
> ...


All plausible except for the last one.


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## comprehab (May 28, 2005)

Issues have been resolved with the dealer.
I recieved legal copies of some of the software.
The machine had a new case and therefore has no serial number.
<span title="Nothing to see here...">No need to name Names...</span>


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)




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## stephen.oatright (Apr 5, 2006)

Hello,

I am glad the situation was resolved, however activities like this are rarely spontaneous so I doubt that this was the first or last time it will happen. I would still report the incident.

The clever should be able to figure out who it is if they merely *linger* on the *name*.

Best,

Stephen


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

It's a good learning experience if we now know that new cases don't have serial numbers, and begs the question: What makes a Mac a new Mac? Suppose a case got dented and replaced. Isn't there something in the hardware that provides the serial number when you are viewing the system profile? Shouldn't that match something on the case, the original one?

Thanks, Comprehab.


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## comprehab (May 28, 2005)

Hoewever-
The motherboard was replaced by apple ( an apple refurb). When this happens, no serial number will show up in the system profiler (or so im told). and the case was also brand new, so that is why there is no serial number on it.


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## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

stephen.oatright said:


> activities like this are rarely spontaneous


Yes, they are indeed rarely spontaneous.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

comprehab said:


> Hoewever-
> The motherboard was replaced by apple ( an apple refurb). When this happens, no serial number will show up in the system profiler (or so im told).


I don't know about PowerMacs, but the motherboard in my PowerBook was replaced and the serial number still shows up.


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## jfpoole (Sep 26, 2002)

comprehab said:


> The motherboard was replaced by apple ( an apple refurb). When this happens, no serial number will show up in the system profiler (or so im told).


Who told you this? Was it the <span title="MacDoc? MacDoc MacDoc MacDoc!">dealer in question?</span>


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## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

comprehab said:


> The motherboard was replaced by apple ( an apple refurb). When this happens, no serial number will show up in the system profiler (or so im told). and the case was also brand new, so that is why there is no serial number on it.


A quick Google brought up some pages that backs this up:

http://www.macintouch.com/security-serials.html


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## comprehab (May 28, 2005)

Yeah, seems this is known. Feels wierd having no serial number though.


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## jfpoole (Sep 26, 2002)

I'd feel weird buying a computer that didn't have a serial number and came with pirated software. Very shady to say the least.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

PosterBoy said:


> I don't know about PowerMacs, but the motherboard in my PowerBook was replaced and the serial number still shows up.


Like Macoholic says, this is normal. It's been noted several times in these forums and other forums.

What worried me more was that there was no serial # on the case, but I guess if the case was replaced that would explain it. Funny coincidence about how both the motherboard and case were replaced, but I guess it happens in rare instances.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

I guess it's better than getting a failing motherboard and a bum case, both with serial numbers.




Kosh said:


> Like Macoholic says, this is normal. It's been noted several times in these forums and other forums.
> 
> What worried me more was that there was no serial # on the case, but I guess if the case was replaced that would explain it. Funny coincidence about how both the motherboard and case were replaced, but I guess it happens in rare instances.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

probably the biggest concern here is a retailer passing off burned copies of operating systems when the system is advertised as including an OS.

If the machine was offered as a bare machine no OS, that's a different matter.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

groovetube said:


> probably the biggest concern here is a retailer passing off burned copies of operating systems when the system is advertised as including an OS.
> 
> If the machine was offered as a bare machine no OS, that's a different matter.


So, are you trying to say that piracy would be ok as long as the reseller isn't making any money off it? Because that'd would be a load of bull. Software piracy is illegal no matter what the motivation. 

It's one thing for a person to go and find an illegal copy of something on the internet, it's quite another for a reseller to provide an illegal copy with hardware they are selling; both are illegal, though, no matter how you slice it.

The hardware being refurbished is an explanation that makes sense, however I can't see any excuse for providing pirated software. Maybe it would be helpful if the reseller in question would explain it for us?


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

Yeah, the burned OS CDs are a bit of a problem, but it's a grey area. The Mac should come with the original system CDs/DVD. So if you have a Mac, legally you are entitled to have an OS on it. Apple would ship you replacement MacOS CDs/DVD if you lost them for the cost of shipping. The retailer could have probably donne this. The only problem is, that Mac didn't come with Tiger, so Apple is getting cheated out of an upgrade. Also, if you have to restore the Mac to it's original factory state, you can't. Does the burned CDs even have iLife and whatever bundled software came with the Mac on them? Ie. I'm wondering even if you have a Install/Restore DVD or just a Tiger OS DVD.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

PosterBoy said:


> So, are you trying to say that piracy would be ok as long as the reseller isn't making any money off it? Because that'd would be a load of bull. Software piracy is illegal no matter what the motivation.
> 
> It's one thing for a person to go and find an illegal copy of something on the internet, it's quite another for a reseller to provide an illegal copy with hardware they are selling; both are illegal, though, no matter how you slice it.
> 
> The hardware being refurbished is an explanation that makes sense, however I can't see any excuse for providing pirated software. Maybe it would be helpful if the reseller in question would explain it for us?


Ah, no, that's not what I said.

I was merely pointing out that it is of greater concern that a reseller would sell a machine advertised as including an OS with burned copies. 
I guess thought this is obvious?

maybe not.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

Kosh said:


> Yeah, the burned OS CDs are a bit of a problem, but it's a grey area.


I'll respectfully disagree. The packages was advertised as coming with Tiger and iLife '06. Whether it would come with a restore DVD or a Tiger DVD I don't know, but either way the burned DVDs he received are illegal.



groovetube said:


> I was merely pointing out that it is of greater concern that a reseller would sell a machine advertised as including an OS with burned copies.


It would be, but I don't think that any legitimate reseller would be dumb enough to do so, and whether it were advertised or not, supplying burned disks is still wrong.


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## mac_geek (May 14, 2005)

Name names! C'mon enquiring minds want to know! Protect your fellow eh Macers!


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

stephen.oatright said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am glad the situation was resolved, however activities like this are rarely spontaneous so I doubt that this was the first or last time it will happen. I would still report the incident.
> 
> ...





mac_geek said:


> Name names! C'mon enquiring minds want to know! Protect your fellow eh Macers!



I couldn't figure it out either.

.
.


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## elmer (Dec 19, 2002)

kloan said:


> every mac should come with the OS, since the OS was included with the computer when it was originally bought... can you please tell us who this store is so we can avoid them? i sure want to. i don't like the sounds of any of that.


DELL Financial Services sells refurbished DELLs with no CDs. Refurb Mac places in the US sell Macs with no CDs.


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## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

elmer said:


> DELL Financial Services sells refurbished DELLs with no CDs. Refurb Mac places in the US sell Macs with no CDs.


Probably due to some licensing agreement with Microsoft  That may not apply to Mac OS and Macs. Mac OS doesn't even have serial number registration -- and THEIR refurbs DO come with the OS


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## Aero (Mar 2, 2006)

elmer said:


> DELL Financial Services sells refurbished DELLs with no CDs. Refurb Mac places in the US sell Macs with no CDs.


Dell sells NEW PC laptop and desktop with no cd, you can buy them for 10-15


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

At the moment, we don't have both sides of the story, and naming names would be extremely prejudicial. 
There has been some good advice given about buying Macs in this thread - this post was extremely helpful:
http://www.ehmac.ca/showpost.php?p=379072&postcount=16

Some companies do sell used/refurbs Mac without the Mac OS DVDs. Not all Mac refurbs come from Apple directly. There are many channels for dealers to acquire used/refurb macs.


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## lightbulb (Oct 24, 2005)

PosterBoy said:


> I don't know about PowerMacs, but the motherboard in my PowerBook was replaced and the serial number still shows up.


My PM board was replaced under Applecare last year and under system profile shows a different # than my original serial #. It was explained to me by Applecare after trying to get support with the new #; my scenario would happen when Apple replaces the board with a refurb; I would have to continue quoting the original serial # to get Applecare service.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

ArtistSeries said:


> At the moment, we don't have both sides of the story, and naming names would be extremely prejudicial.
> There has been some good advice given about buying Macs in this thread - this post was extremely helpful:
> http://www.ehmac.ca/showpost.php?p=379072&postcount=16
> 
> Some companies do sell used/refurbs Mac without the Mac OS DVDs. Not all Mac refurbs come from Apple directly. There are many channels for dealers to acquire used/refurb macs.


if you read the post...
"The machine package i purchased stated Tiger and iLife '06 were included, but in the box all I found was a burned copy of Tiger."

I don't see how there is an explanation for burned copies when it was to be _included_


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

ArtistSeries said:


> At the moment, we don't have both sides of the story, and naming names would be extremely prejudicial.


Like I said, if the reseller would come forward and explain his side of the story, then comprehab wouldn't have to name names.


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