# Say Goodbye To Used Mac Desktop Market



## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

Well that is all she wrote, the used Mac desktop market is toast with the new Mac Mini. The only saving grace's for older Mac desktops like the G3 and G4 tower's will be expandibility, but how much of premium will the market pay so they can add an extra internal drive or PCI card.

If you haven't sold your G3 or G4 Tower you might as well hang on to it.


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## maximusbibicus (Feb 25, 2002)

I couldn't agree more.

The market is dead.


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## Mantat (Aug 22, 2003)

And that is a good thing!
People were asking ridiculously high price for used mac. Of course it was guided by market demand but still, this is going to be good for the whole mac community.


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## gastonbuffet (Sep 23, 2004)

mantat is not only a glass half full person, he's also right. this is good news.


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## Chealion (Jan 16, 2001)

I disagree. The Mac mini is a mini system. It's limited, but is perfect like the all-in-one machines have been. They are a great computer, but are not expandable so the whole unit must be replaced. I think the market will take a hit, but it will not die.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

No I don't think the Mac mini will affect the used Mac market if you're looking for expandability. This thing is like a headless iMac/eMac except worse in some ways and better in others. No upgradeable video card, only one RAM slot (that must require a bit of work to upgrade). And the used Mac market has survived with the iMac and eMac.


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## murbot (Mar 22, 2001)

1 RAM slot, means you break the bank just to get a decent amount of RAM to work with. Non-upgradeable 32MB video card. Maximum 80GB hard drive. 

Sure, pricing just took a hit, but I don't think it's "toast" by any means.


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

Kosh said:


> And the used Mac market has survived with the iMac and eMac.


But the iMac and eMac had a substantially higher price point than this little gem. For the sake of having an extra internal drive and PCI cards (ok perhaps memory... I'll give you that one) what's the advantage to a tower?

At first prices will lower a bit a people selling their towers reluctantly lower their asking prices. Eventually they will plumet as these lttle puppies show up in the market. Besides USB 2.0 and Firewire = plenty of expandability. Professionals who require more memory and PCI devices will move upmarket into G5's.

Finally the only move for the Mac Mini in terms of performance is higher... who knows, next yeat the iMac Mini might be sporting a G5 processor.

Nail is in the coffin boys, so long to high priced used Macs, sorry but that is the truth of it.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

It'll impact the Blues and Beiges most but OS9 market is very healthy and quite frankly there is little value difference between the mini and a iBook if you break it down and you get portability with the latter.

G4 towers are super expandable - look at dual 1.2s in the $1200 range nicely equipped.

It's a cool device and will get many over to X -particularly switchers.

Anyone see the cache size.... 512 L2 versus 2 meg L3 in towers - = big diff in performance,
Still a good move by Apple and it will affect the used market a bit but not much.


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## lindmar (Nov 13, 2003)

I disagree with you that say its dead...

I just paid 1200 for my mdd 1.25

And it CAME with 120 gigs of HD space, 1 Gig of Ram, room for 3 more HD's and a superdrive...

It now has 2 gigs of ram, 320 gigs of HD space and room for 2 more HD's


I couldnt disagree more.. I thought today I would be an unhappy camper.. but I am very happy with this...Plus I got a keyboard and mouse with mine.. and as macdoc says l3 cache.. 


The mac mini is beautiful but pushing $1000 bucks with keyboard/mouse, 512 ram, and any airport/bluetooth you may wish to add

and a 1 gig ram max..
add a gig of ram and your over $1000 for a machine with no display, no keyboard, low ram capacity and no room for internal upgrade.. 

This machine is for switchers users of the pod but unless you have that 1 gig of ram and 80 gig HD this machine is pretty basic for ilife apps.. which is cool but doesnt kill a tower market at all

I dunno..


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

Yeah but if you look at your machine Lindmar you are one step away from a G5... That is your next step isn't it? You look like you do some serious computing and you will move into a G5 at some point. Anybody elase with similar needs as you will be doing the same. 

Anyone who has a G3 Beige, B&W or Grey Tower aren't looking at another G4 tower they'd be looking to move into a G5. Those people with G3 iMac's won't be looking at B&W or Grey Towers as they will move into a mac Mini (as well as all those PC users who want a Mac to augment their iPod).

I hate to say it but Apple did it again... just like the G4 iBook killed the value of my 12" PB G4 rev.A


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## lewdvig (Nov 20, 2003)

It's about time. I like buying old gear to play with - I'll be active in the Mac community again. I hope the mini drive is at least 5400 rpm - most low cost laptop drives are 4200 rpm these days.


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## lindmar (Nov 13, 2003)

da_jonesy said:


> Yeah but if you look at your machine Lindmar you are one step away from a G5... That is your next step isn't it? You look like you do some serious computing and you will move into a G5 at some point. Anybody elase with similar needs as you will be doing the same.
> 
> Anyone who has a G3 Beige, B&W or Grey Tower aren't looking at another G4 tower they'd be looking to move into a G5. Those people with G3 iMac's won't be looking at B&W or Grey Towers as they will move into a mac Mini (as well as all those PC users who want a Mac to augment their iPod).
> 
> I hate to say it but Apple did it again... just like the G4 iBook killed the value of my 12" PB G4 rev.A


No.. cause this g4 is fast enough for what I do!
Da_jonesy, I just sold my g3 b/w!! I did look into a g4 it just made sense.. this is a solid maching and i couldnt afford a g5.. I will use this thing for 4 more years.. and probally buy twenty other macs around it, ibooks, powerbooks, ect...

This is different then the g4 ibook and powerbook dilemma.... ibooks had to go g4... this though is totally differnet... there is nowhere to expand this machine...

Right now, the emac looks to me like a better deal still./. at least you get a screen, keyboard, mouse and monitor


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## Principal (Nov 28, 2004)

*I'm not thrilled*

I wanted new powerbook - bewaaaaaaahh.
Besides, life is not random - its orderly! (The Bible?)


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## robert (Sep 26, 2002)

*market dead?*

I think you will find it will change (again- look what the G4 ibook did to the portable lineup) and over the next few months settle down.
The big difference is/has always been the line between professional and consumer users.
I mean everyone thinks they need a G5, but most would do fine with a G4 1.25.
I personally own one and it is a solid piece of machinery.
I will upgrade eventually when the OS and software I use will demand it, but for now, I am quite happy with this computer.
Who knows, maybe a year or two from now there will be G5 upgrades for G4 towers.  
Just my 2cents worth.
Robert


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

I wonder what my Sawtooth DP450 that I paid just over $600 US 15 months ago will be worth now? I see other Sawtooths (Sawteeth?) of the same vintage going in the $400 to $500 CDN range on eBay.

Will the mini-Mac affect the used price of PowerMac G5s because there's where I hope to move to, when the prices come down.

I bet all those overpriced used Cubes will lose their value. Someone should sell a little platform for the mini-Mac to sit on, to make it look just like a Cube. The Cube that should have been.

Does the mini-Mac really mean that used laptops will come down in price? This would be great because I really want a not too old, used iBook sometime soon.

That being said, that mini-Mac's such a cute little package, I just want one.


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## autopilot (Dec 2, 2004)

it just offers more options for everybody. do cheap new cars kill the market for older, classic cars? nope.

switchers and light users will find the mac mini attractive. and the used market will deflate a little pricewise, rightly so.

everyone will get what they want for a reasonable price, and i think that is what apple is going for.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Not likely G5 upgrades but big duals munch a G5 single anyway.

I concur about - 1.25 2 meg L3 cache being a solid experience. I move back and forth with the G5 upstairs and 1.2 downstairs and there is little difference IF RAM IS THE SAME.

I thnk this WILL get some Blue and beige owners moving but the eMac is still around. We have a 1 gHz 512 160 with Superdrive at g note - thats STILL terrific value...just as it was before this announcment.

The odd situation is when you look against the iBook at $1299 - screen, KB mouse and airport - more RAM capacity PLUS it's portable.

I gotta think the eMac/iMac will coalesce.

THIS box is interesting for schools as long as it has a lock.
 A damn fine lock. :lmao: 

Where this will come into play is when a roll up OLED screen arrives - tres cool


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Cubes will go down a bit but they have adc and can be upgraded well beyond the mini. They also run OS9.
The ADC with matching monitor is a real draw and there is the collectible aspect.

Towers will drop a bit but so have upgrades ( wait'll next week ) :yikes: 

You'll not see a G5 in the mini format and there is an upper limit to the G4.
It's competition is not towers but portables.
:nuts:


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## yatko (Oct 9, 2004)

Nice to hear that Cubes will drop in price so that I can put a mini ITX in there.

Pulling your legs.


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## re:load (Mar 7, 2004)

I think the biggest impacted would be the Cubes. Like cars, they're in the same "class" (economy? )


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## iLabmAn (Jan 1, 2003)

I am thrilled to see this new Mac. Finally, the LC is back! I think the price is a little on the high side, but I think the market is iPod users who want to experience the fullness that is Mac.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

The G4 Cube is still more expandable, and may even be of higher value to some users - unlike the Mac mini, the G4 Cube has 3 RAM slots, an AGP slot, and the ability to swap processors into the dual-processor zone.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

da_jonesy said:


> what's the advantage to a tower?


16x Pioneer DVD-RW, 128 mb Video card, Cheaper RAM due to more slots,
Can change processor cards, Add additional HD's...

Dave


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

dolawren said:


> 16x Pioneer DVD-RW, 128 mb Video card, Cheaper RAM due to more slots,
> Can change processor cards, Add additional HD's...
> 
> Dave


I wish I could quote your quote of me. I had in fact said, That other than those reasons (more than internal drives) why would you want one... 

My point is that those people looking for expandability will look towards used G5 Towers... With that part of the market buying up the used G5's the G4's will loose value at a MUCH faster rate... especially now that a NEW low cost alternative is available.

Time will tell...


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

> I wish I could quote your quote of me. I had in fact said, That other than those reasons (more than internal drives) why would you want one...


The G5 Towers and the G4 towers are different and desirable for different reasons.

The G4 tower to me is the better buy for the budget minded Mac user that wants
a very flexible tower that can use OS9->OSX 10.4 and use older PCI cards/ATA drives.

Granted that the older Sawtooth Mac's use slower ram and there can be
problems, But all in all they are still a best buy and not a road Apple by any means.

Dave


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## iTony (Apr 22, 2003)

I am pretty confident that the target market for the Mac mini is not the power user. This is a great little computer that is going to fit nicely on the kitchen counter. It is priced so low that obviously there'll be a hit on the used market (i.e. CRT iMacs, B&W, Yikes, Sawtooth). How much of a hit? I would now have a tough time paying $500 for a Sawtooth, but then again, I don't need to expand with the PCI slots, nor do I like the fan noise from the Sawtooth 

BTW, I did order one and it will fit nicely on the kitchen counter.


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## Rob (Sep 14, 2002)

This looks like the perfect machine to hack for OS9 booting ala some of the eMacs. The education market still needs that capability and this box seems well suited for that too.


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## rodkin (Jan 7, 2003)

One of the main reasons I think the Mac mini WON'T have as much of a negative effect on the used market as most here think is the dual-boot factor. There are still a lot of people who aren't willing to give up OS 9 quite yet.

Remember when the OS X boot-only computers came out, and how slow people were to adopt them?


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## KardnalForgotHisPassword (Oct 14, 2004)

My poor Cube... It just got less cool....


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

KardnalForgotHisPassword said:


> My poor Cube... It just got less cool....


You can stack four mac minis in your cube housing comfortably.


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## Macman27 (Dec 26, 2004)

*Times ten cool factor*

I agree that there will be an impact on the used market, just not a very big one.
For those of us who tinker with old stuff, it may be an advantage. Also, those who are on the trailing edge of the Mac wave might be able to catch up a bit.

I remember back in the early 90's will hooking up a nintendo for my nephew, thinking "wouldn't it be cool to have a computer this size!" ...And now we do (if not smaller).


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## HJS (Sep 12, 2003)

Rob said:


> This looks like the perfect machine to hack for OS9 booting ala some of the eMacs. The education market still needs that capability and this box seems well suited for that too.


I'm not aware of any OS9 booting hack for X only machines that worked-did someone finally do it, somewhere?
Pretty certain it won't be possible with the mini, at all...


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## Rob (Sep 14, 2002)

HJS,

I'm almost certain that Apple provided eMacs to the education market that would boot into OS9. I also think that there was a hack for the consumer version of the early eMacs that would allow them to boot into OS9 also.

The Cubes and G4 towers could boot into OS9 up to the Mirror drive door versions without Firewire 800. The hardware architecture of the Mini seems to be more in line with the older Cube and G4 towers.

The new Mini would be a very attractive box for someone (like moi) if it had dual boot capability. I don't have the technical expertise to judge, but my guess is that a firmware hack would be easier for the Mini than other machines that have newer architecture (such as memory type, bus speed, etc). That doesn't mean it's possible, but there may be someone out there willing to take up the challenge. I don't think anyone would waste their time hacking an eMac, but a dual boot Mini would have some droolworthiness.


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