# Top 10 Actors of our time



## gastonbuffet (Sep 23, 2004)

Gerard Depardieu
Gary Oldman
Tom Hanks
Javier Bardem
Ian McKellen
Geoffrey Rush
Daniel Day-Lewis
Anthony Hopkins
Marlon Brando
Al Pacino

your thoughts?

did i miss anyone?

if you had to replace ONE, who and for whom? (if you pick Javier Bardem out, you know crap about acting  )


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## Mrs. Furley (Sep 1, 2004)

That's a pretty good list but if I could make changes I would definitely remove Al Pacino. I think he's become quite terrible. I would add Ewan McGregor to the list. I think he's the best actor to come along in a very long time. And I think Johnny Depp should be on there too.

But it's really all about opinion, isn't it?


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## MacDaddy (Jul 16, 2001)

Don't forget

Bob Hoskins
Christopher Lloyd
Johnny Depp


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## Ramboman (Dec 13, 2004)

Not sure who I would replace, but how about including Samuel L. Jackson? I know that he has had roles in some pretty bad movies, but some of his roles have been amazing. Something about Samuel L. Jackson's intensity is just great to watch…..such a bad [email protected]#*&%.

Also, I heard somewhere that if you take a look at the last 15 years he appeared in more movies than any other actor.

My second addition would be for Christopher Walken. Again, it's just something about him.....and man can he dance!


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## Mrs. Furley (Sep 1, 2004)

Tom Wilkinson is wonderful too.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

gastonbuffet said:


> Gerard Depardieu *** hate him
> Gary Oldman
> Tom Hanks *** popular, but not a great actor
> Javier Bardem *** sorry, don't know him
> ...


Ed Harris
Alan Arkin
Chistopher Walken
Kevin Spacey
Johnny Depp, if not now, then soon to be added, he's on his way


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

You missed a few: 

Sidney Poitier
Rod Steiger
Jack Nicholson
Leonardo DiCaprio
James Stewart


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Here's my "bakers dozen", in no particular order. I trust by actor one meant "men", with actresses being "women". I have my favorites among that gender as well.

Gary Cooper
Humphrey Bogart
Jimmy Stewart
Robert Redford
Paul Newman
Robin Williams
Morgan Freeman
Dustin Hoffman
Denzel Washington
Kevin Costner
Gene Hackman
Tim Robbins
Christopher Walken


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

gastonbuffet said:


> Gerard Depardieu
> Gary Oldman
> Tom Hanks
> Javier Bardem
> ...


Just my opinions off the top of my head, but Edward Norton, Ed Harris and Michael Caine to replace Javier Bardem, Gerard Depardieu and Daniel Day-Lewis.

Edit: Just read the other posts, and Kevin Spacey and Jack Nicholson should also be in my list, which would push out Marlon Brando and Al Pacino.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sinc, your inclusion of Sidney Poitier, Rod Steiger and Jack Nicholson would have been my next three. "Great minds think alike".


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Not to mention:

Robert Mitchum
Gregory Peck
James Cagney


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## Mrs. Furley (Sep 1, 2004)

SINC said:


> Not to mention:
> 
> Gregory Peck


Yes, I agree with that one!


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I can't believe that I forgot Gregory Peck and James Cagney.


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

Well, at least Macspectrum joins me in voting for Kevin Spacey. The fact that he has made the transition to directing and stage in no way alters the brilliance of The Usual Suspects and others. And we're voting about them on film, not about their personalities, yes?

Here's a controversial vote - Patrick Stewart. I'm not totally committed to it, actually. Brilliant at Shakespeare, but does he ever do anything that isn't Shakespearean? Picard became Shakespearean.
What about John Candy? Or Paul Gross?


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> What about John Candy? Or Paul Gross?


let's just leave it at that

I do agree about Peck and Poitier
and maybe Pacino could be pushed out
Costner could never be in a top 10

Sean Penn might be considered


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## Mrs. Furley (Sep 1, 2004)

RevMatt said:


> Here's a controversial vote - Patrick Stewart. I'm not totally committed to it, actually. Brilliant at Shakespeare, but does he ever do anything that isn't Shakespearean? Picard became Shakespearean.


Well I saw him on SNL years ago and he was an absolute riot! I would imagine he is a diverse actor but I haven't seen him in very many roles so can't be sure.


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## Mrs. Furley (Sep 1, 2004)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> Sean Penn might be considered


Sean Penn needs to work on actually shedding a few tears when he does crying scenes. For that reason, I could not put him on a top 10 list.


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

Robert DeNiro hasn't been mentioned yet?

There are a lot of talented "B" list actors out there that should make the list as well.

What about actresses?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I forgot Pacino and DeNiro as well.

Michael, I would want Kevin Costner to play me in the movie version of "The Shang".


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

DeNiro is probably too type cast as; mafia wiseguy, raging taxi driver/boxer etc.

Don't know if he makes my top 10.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Michael, watch DeNiro in "The Awakening" with Robin Williams. Very atypical roles for both of them, and a great movie.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

Geez, I would have said:

Sean Connery (not only because of his Bond role)
Anthony Hopkins
Morgan Freeman
Harrison Ford
Samuel Jackson
Denzel Washington
Donald Sutherland (let's get some Canadians here)
Gordon Pinsent
Johnny Depp 

Note that these aren't necessarily in order.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Geez I glad somebody did Depp
In no particular order 

Johnny Depp
Albert Finney NOT Alistar Sims - oops
Kevin Spacey
Morgan Freeman
Bob Hoskins
Gerard Depardieu
Tom Hanks
Geoffrey Rush
Daniel Day-Lewis
Anthony Hopkins
Denzel Washington
Ed Harris
Harrison Ford
Sean Connery

I also very much appreciate Alan Arkin

Some are actors ( Albert Finney, Spacey, Harris, Day/Lewis ) - some entertainers ( Hanks ) some both ( Depp Harrison Ford Depardieu Hoskins, )


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

I surprised nobody but me mentioned Alan Arkin.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Russell Crowe 
Johnny Depp
Nicolas Cage
Clive Owen
Benicio Del Toro
John C. Reilly 
Don Cheadle
Gael García Bernal
Leonardo Dicaprio
Jim Carrey 

The Ten Greatest Actors of Our Generation: GQ Features on men
http://men.style.com/gq/features/landing?id=content_482


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Oscar winners all:

Gary Cooper
William Holden
Ernest Borgnine
Yul Brynner
Alec Guinness
David Niven
Lee Marvin
George C. Scott
Jack Lemmon
Dustin Hoffman
Henry Fonda
Robert Duvall


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Man, I must be working too hard, because I left Henry Fonda, one of my all time favorite actors, off my list.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Burt Lancaster
Rex Harrison
John Wayne

Again all Oscar winners come to mind as well.


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## mr.steevo (Jul 22, 2005)

What about that Neo guy from the Matrix?

s.


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## Greenlion (Nov 19, 2002)

Albert Finney
Jeremy Irons
Ben Kingsley

Something about the British system (stage maybe?)that produces many fine, fine actors.


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

Emma Thompson
Ben Kingsley
Jeremy Irons
Anthony Hopkins
Vanessa Redgrave
Maggie Smith
Alan Rickman
Robbie Coltrane


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## jicon (Jan 12, 2005)

Burt Reynolds
Michael Caine
John Travolta
Russell Crowe - Grieving wife scene in Gladiator
Martin Lawrence
Arnold Schwartzeneger
Will Smith
Hayden Christianssen
Nicolas Cage
Al Pacino

Oh wait.... this is supposed to be a GREAT actor list...

For sure, Kevin Spacey, Morgan Freeman, Alec Guinness, and Jack Nicholson


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## ErnstNL (Apr 12, 2003)

Jicon... you  

I would give 2 thumbs up for 
Everyone previously listed AND
Sir(s) Laurence Olivier and Richard Burton.


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## DJM (Feb 21, 2005)

No one has mentioned Brad Pitt have they? I think he is quite underrated. He has that stupid movie hunk status but he IS a fine actor. Just watch Kalifornia and Seven. No, really, go watch them


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## jicon (Jan 12, 2005)

Pitt is quite good... I liked him in Snatch and Fight Club also.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Greenlion said:


> Albert Finney
> Jeremy Irons
> Ben Kingsley
> 
> Something about the British system (stage maybe?)that produces many fine, fine actors.


 Smack! I can't believe I forgot Kingsley...from Ghandi to Sexy Beast, one of the greatest actors.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

As for actresses --
Ingrid Bergman
Katharine Hepburn
Meryl Streep
Susan Sarandon
Elizabeth Taylor
Glenn Close
Geena Davis
Natalie Wood
Lauren Bacall
Julia Roberts 
Jodie Foster


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## Mrs. Furley (Sep 1, 2004)

I think Cate Blanchett is an excellent actress.
I also love Brenda Blethyn.
Kate Winslet too...although I'm not sure she's been consistently great throughout her career...?


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Greenlion - :clap: 3 favs of mine too.

Women??
Juliette Binoche
Emma Thompson
Helen Mirren - incredible actress
Streep
Cate Blanchette
Candice Bergen
Helen Bonham Carter
Nicole Kidman
Ashley Judd - long time fan
Rachel Weisz - up and comer in my mind
Kate Winslet - incredible in Jude the Obscure

Eye candy
Keira Knightly
Katie Holmes 
Charlize Theron...can also act - Monster was amazing
Kate Hudson
Zeta Jones...just loved that Zorro striptease
Halle Berry


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I find it difficult to believe that women are still referred to as "eye candy" in this day and age. I can appreciate beauty, but not the term. Isn't it degrading?

As for beautiful actresses, I have long admired the different beauty of Susan Saradon. Not the classic type, but her down home style of beauty is stunning.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Why - it's not in the least pejorative and you really need to get a synonym going there....4 x use of beauty or variation thereon is a bit much.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Interesting reply. Switch the topic to writing style to deflect the comment.

I still find the term degrading to women.

How about it ladies? How do you feel about "eye candy" to refer to you or an actress?


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## Cameo (Aug 3, 2004)

I don't like it, I find it an insult - referred to as something pretty but doesn't last long.

What happened and what is wrong with the words "pretty" "beautiful" "good-looking"??

Or, "handsome" for a fellow?


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

Michael Caine
Harrison Ford
Anthony Hopkins
Harvey Keitel
Steve Buscemi
Takashi Shimura
John Cleese
Jeffrey Combs
Christopher Lee
Sean Connery

Laterz


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

DJM said:


> No one has mentioned Brad Pitt have they? I think he is quite underrated. He has that stupid movie hunk status but he IS a fine actor. Just watch Kalifornia and Seven. No, really, go watch them


Just watch "7 Years in Tibet"
It feels like 7 hours.

Pitt was good in "Meet Joe Black" and "Ocean's 11"
that doesn't equal "10 best"


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## DJM (Feb 21, 2005)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> I surprised nobody but me mentioned Alan Arkin.


Top 10? Nah.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Brad and Sean...... eye candy for the girls. 
Whether you "like" the term or not - it's 
a) not pejorative
b) is in general use for a variety of situations not related to people or gender
c) was used accurately in that post


> Noun 1. eye candy - visual images that are pleasing to see but are intellectually undemanding





> Eye candy is an expression used to describe something that is most remarkable by
> its appearance, but that doesn't have anything else so exciting.


what are you going to do ....haul out pulchritudinous next??? How...Victorian

•••••

I think Arkin is excellent but not in the top 10 the the *Heart is a Lonely Hunter *was an incredible performance. 
Ralph Fiennes as well and who is the guy that played in the Pianist that won the academy award??...just below the top rank.

Keitel I'd perhaps rank in there - pretty remarkable range. That's what I like about Spacey and some others, Helen Mirren and Streep- how wide a range of characters they tackle.

Strikes against deNiro and Pacino in my mind...a bit too typecast.

My two top

Juliette Binoche
Daniel Day-Lewis


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

MacDoc said:


> Brad and Sean...... eye candy for the girls.
> Whether you "like" the term or not - it's
> a) not pejorative
> b) is in general use for a variety of situations not related to people or gender
> ...


Whether you like it or not, it IS degrading to women. 

Victorian? Hardly, Degrading? Definitely.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

MacDoc, I have to agree with Sinc on this one. We differ in our views about the CBC, but NOT about calling women such things.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

Am I the only one that thinks Brando is hugely over-rated as an actor?

He might have been an inovator in his early days...but towards the end, brutal.

I nominate Clint Eastwood as a contender for the top ten...go get'em Harry.

Did someone mention Gregory Peck?

Couple of great Brit actors:
Charles Laughton (Les Misérables, Hunchback of Notre Dame, etc.)
Alastair Sims (best Scrooge ever...unequaled)


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

If I had to pick one of each:
Johnny Depp
Uma Thurman


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Well Dr. G we'll disagree on this.

If I said a car on a set was eye candy am I degrading the car ??...no. It's a generic descriptor not attached to any particular thing at all. Eye of the beholder for sure in this case 

Spelling it out in the context used - the top list were top actors in my view
The bottom list added visual appeal but were not top actors.
Eye candy.
Visual appeal is an enormous benefit...look at the Bond girls.....sometimes it can carry an actress with lesser acting talents and sometimes such a with Charlize Theron she has to get by it ( Monster) to take her place as a really talented actress.

I remember an interview with Meryl Streep where she stated......."I was surprised, who would want to look at me!!" regarding her middle age roles and come back after a family raising hiatus. She was very aware of the "visual appeal".

Sean Connery ages wonderfully, Christopher Walken on the other hand 

••••

and Sinc - YOU needle me about the use of eye candy then get high and mighty about my criticizing your repetitive descriptors????!!!! Spare me the nonsense. I respond in kind in case you've not noticed.

•••

KPS - I think Brandon is just plain awful as well. I was never a great fan of Liz Taylor either. Past glories n'all.

Carex .... Depp is incredible, and as yet unrewarded for it.

I think Thurman over rated tho. What has she taken on that showed her range ala Binoche or Streep???


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## The Great Waka (Nov 26, 2002)

Some very good lists here. Allow me to add:

Christopher Plumber

I second the Takashi Shimura vote. Also, I'll add Toshirô Mifune, if anything because of his mastery of his facial expressionism.


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## Carex (Mar 1, 2004)

Depp lives in exile.

Uma's older works are just fine (ie. Dangerous Liaisons, Henry and June, Sweet and Lowdown).

Sean Penn I'd vote for.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Waka - don't know Shimura - good movies???? Recommend one??

•••
Carex 
Penn perhaps is hampered by his own "bad boy" image in my view.....he is good but like De Niro I think restricted tho DeNiro managed to get into some comedy. I always like Bruce Wills and Arnie for the "ironic commentary" they both pulled off from time to time, mix the humour with the mayhem.

Liasons I'll give you for Thurman but not a top 10 acting surely.,,,,I mean she WAS very cute and partially responsible for the R rating 

••

Is Depp another Chaplin??


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## gwillikers (Jun 19, 2003)

I would personally consider Carrol O'Conner for the list. I know he was just Archie Bunker to most, but he was really so much more.

SINC, I'm glad you remembered David Niven, and Robert Mitchum. They were two of my favorites from way back when.


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## Pelao (Oct 2, 2003)

So many outstanding actors and actresses. Has anyone mentioned Matt Damon? I find his acting outstanding, and bet he will get better and better.

I also think Tim Robbins is worth a mention.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Maybe we need two lists.
Classics - dead or alive

Up and comers.

I liked Mitchum - particulary in the under rated Ryan's Daughter - David Lean behind the camera is always a treat and I thought Mitchum very effective - I like him tho not what I would term one of the greatest.

In the same sort of sensitive hunk category - I like Tom Selleck, Quigley Down Under and others.

I don't think anyone mentioned Val Kilmer. I thought he was sensational in *The Doors*.
Not up to Depp in my view but he seems willing to tackle a wide range. Enjoyed him in *The Ghost and the Darkness.* Busy boy... 6 films on the go 2006/2007 

Did anyone cover off Michael Caine??


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

MacDoc, re your comment "Well Dr. G we'll disagree on this." It goes back to the old semantic arguement between denotation (i.e., the literal meaning of a word, the dictionary meaning) and connotation (i.e., an implied meaning of a word.). What you say about the term "eye candy" and the car reference has a touch of verisimilitude, but is inappropriate in that your "generic descriptor" has been used in a negative manner re women. Thus, we shall agree to disagree. Paix, mon ami.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> Is Depp another Chaplin??


macdoc, you really need to lay off the Baileys, else we exile you to macnutt-land


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Michael - what do you think I was referring to??


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

Michael Gambon is another actor worth mentioning. Older guy largely relegated to character acting/supporting roles... but extremely compelling in such roles nonetheless.

Early DiNiro, early Brando... these guys were great. I second the motion that Pitt is a fine actor. Kalifornia really opened my eyes to what he could do... an excellent creep. Early Hoffman is terrific - Papillon was a wonderful vehicle for him. Now he runs hot and cold. Same with Nicholson, as far as I'm concerned. His best stuff is far behind him, although occasionally he rises to his earlier heights. Otherwise he's like a parody of his earlier performances. I often feel that way about DeNiro, for that matter.

Ditto Helen Mirren. TV or film roles, it doesn't matter, she's at her finest. Cait Blanchett is amazing in so many roles. I think she has the versatility of Streep but uses a more svelte, subtle approach.

Michum has been mentioned... one simply has to see Night of the Hunter to see him at his creepy finest. Wow, is he fascinating in his priestly menace.

Nicole Kidman is somewhat like Pitt - amazing looks, but great substance beneath the exterior. One has only to watch one of her earliest vehicles, Dead Calm, to discover she's had solid acting chops all along.

Two other guys who are too often unsung: Miguel Ferrer, of Traffic and Crossing Jordan fame... a terrific presence with a serious voice and a terribly complex demeanor, hinting of dark undercurrents. One of my faves to watch. The other guy is also a Miguel, Miguel Sandoval of Medium and tons of supporting roles like Meet Joe Black and Pushing Tin. A fine actor who simply convinces without pushing it over the top.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

here's a couple

Chris Cooper, http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0177933/
I thought he was great in "American Beauty", "The Horse Whisperer" and "Seabiscuit"
Real down home American qualities

William H. Macy, http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000513/
Also, in "Seabiscuit" and of course "Fargo"
Catch him in a heart tugging move "Door to Door"
"The Cooler" was good too

both are great actors, not necessarily 'great looking' and humble, honest men in real life

and another "up and comer"
Phillip Seymour Hoffman

I try to catch any movie he makes. First saw him in "Patch Adams"

while I'm on Patch Adams, an honourable mention should go to Robin Williams
from stand up comedian to sit com actor to Academy award winner
varied roles

I think Williams got robbed of best actor when he starred in "Dead Poets Society"
It was the year that Dustin Hoffman won for "Rain Man"
I don't think Hoffman deserved it that year

I really like the way that Liv Tyler's career has been moving along


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I agree on Chris Cooper - and on Macy who has really been a pleasant surprise.
Both were excellent in the movies you mention.

Another "sleeper" is Billy Bob Thornton. *Sling Blade* was incredible as was *Monster's Ball.*
Glad he's got the recognition deserved.
Damn this thread is making me want to fire up the OPPO. 

•••
BTW Michael since you don't respond - "exile" is the key word....not acting.

••
Dr. G - take a look at "common use" and origin on "eye candy". Your OS X screen is full of it.


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

Tom Hanks
Leonardo di Caprio
Gary Sinise
Jack Nicholson
Al Pacino
John Malkovich
Gabriel Byrne


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Yeah, damn I like Gabriel Byrne to :clap: I'll need a top 50 by the looks of it . 

I notice old Charlie "Cold dead hands" Heston didn't seem to rank anywhere 

Kiefer Sutherland is also MIA here.

Oliver Platt is an actor I do enjoy watching. He was very good in *The Infiltrator*...damn disturbing movie that was about the NeoNazi movement - true story.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

MacDoc said:


> ••
> Dr. G - take a look at "common use" and origin on "eye candy". Your OS X screen is full of it.


OK, here:

eye candy: /i:´ kand`ee/, n.
[from mainstream slang “ear candy”] A display of some sort that's presented to lusers to keep them distracted while the program performs necessary background tasks. “Give 'em some eye candy while the back-end slurps that BLOB into core.” Reported as mainstream usage among players of graphics-heavy computer games. 


_"We're also told this term is mainstream slang for soft pornography,"_ but that sense does not appear to be live among hackers.

Doesn't get much more degrading than that.


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## jicon (Jan 12, 2005)

MacDoc said:


> Kiefer Sutherland is also MIA here.


You're kidding, right? I'm addicted to 24, but by no means by anyone's acting. 

(I was watching Season II on re-runs Wednesday, when I heard Kiefer belt out a 'Nooooo', akin to Darth Vader in the last Star Wars)


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

jicon said:


> You're kidding, right? I'm addicted to 24, but by no means by anyone's acting.
> 
> (I was watching Season II on re-runs Wednesday, when I heard Kiefer belt out a 'Nooooo', akin to Darth Vader in the last Star Wars)


His Dad, Donald, deserves honourable mention, but not Keifer.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I just was noting that Keifer was not in anyone's pick, as were few others missing. I certainly wasn't saying he should be tho I too enjoy 24.

•••••••••
Where is your "mainstream slang".?????...the quote says " I'm told " ...TOLD!!??...TOLD BY WHOM?????........ 

*How about a simple google on "eye candy definition"*

and here's the definitions that arise



> Eye candy is an expression used to describe something that is most remarkable by its appearance, but that doesn't have anything else so exciting. This term could be used to describe, for example, a movie or computer game with incredible graphics and visual effects, but with poor plot, gameplay, etc.
> 
> The term can also mean something that was deliberately made to be visually attractive, such as a wallpaper, painting, advertising and so on.
> 
> Eye Candy can also be used to describe high quality, visual effects in computer games, such as anti-aliasing (AA) or anisotropic filtering (AF). By turning on these features and generally increasing the graphics level the game looks smoother and better, at the cost of frames shown per second (FPS). Playing a computer game with "max eye candy" usually means the person has a powerful computer and plays the game with a high resolution, high quality textures and max AA and AF.





> eye candy
> 
> Eye candy is a term used in information technology for visual elements displayed on computer monitors that are aesthetically appealing or attention-compelling. There are several different usages:
> 1) Eye candy sometimes means any frill or decorative design intended to enhance the basic content of a presentation. In this usage, the connotation of "unnecessary" may or may not be present.
> ...


Geez put it bed - if you don't like the phrase don't use it.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Dictionary.Com:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=eye candy


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## The Great Waka (Nov 26, 2002)

MacDoc, I've only seen Shimura in Kurosawa's films. You can see him in The Seven Samurai and the leader of them, and in Kagemusha.


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## Gravity Grave (Jul 16, 2005)

Hmmm, I'll throw my two cents in, informed by my own bias as it is, and perhaps slightly redundant with the previous responses. I don't presume to pick anywhere near a definitive list of the top actors 'of our time', but here are some great ones I've seen over my movie watching life (which is admittedly short and perhaps less informed relative to others here).

Ian Holm
Gary Oldman
Brando
Brian Cox
John Depp
John C. Reily
Daniel Day Lewis
Toshiro Mifune
Ben Kingsley
Phillip Seymour Hoffman - IMO one of the greatest working actors out there. Incredibly diverse resume, yet criminally underrated. Maybe with his role in the upcoming Mission Impossible III, he'll get a bit more mainstream recognition.

A few up and coming actors that have a lot of promise are Cillian Murphy, Mark Ruffalo, and Steve Coogan.

Someone who might now be etching into the 'star'/leading man category that is quite talented is Christian Bale.

A character actor I greatly appreciate is Brendan Gleeson.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> His Dad, Donald, deserves honourable mention, but not Keifer.


I dunno. I think Kiefer rivals his dad. I don't find that either one has has displayed the acrobatic range (or been given an opportunity to, perhaps) of some of their contemporaries, but Sutherland the younger is a fine actor. He gives great voice - ask Ford, who's shelling out handsomely for him to purr his come-ons to the unwashed masses seeking a new set of wheels. He's a real presence in any room he enters - witnessed this personally at the DGC awards a few weeks back here in Toronto. As much presence as his much taller dad, who's also attended the same function a year or two earlier - not a bad feat, considering the elder Sutherland is 6'4" or better and sports that silvery mane atop his long frame.

On 24, a show I sporadically watch primarily for its sheer adrenalin-fueled escapism, Kiefer is a credible engine, generating plausible tension and always appearing suitably concerned/determined/pissed. That's not an easy gig to always be keeping up.

I think we tend to grant his dad more chops because he's a a hallowed senior who's done his celluloid time and who, correct me if I'm wrong, never dirtied his hands working in that lesser business, the televised one. It's silly to make distinctions of course, considering the amount of tripe Hollywood desperately pumps out year after year, but celluloid is older and often considered more mature... at least by the older crowd. But Donald was memorable as Oddball in Kelly's Heros and he was fabulous in his paranoid-soaked cameo in Oliver Stone's Kennedy... but does his best work collectively make him a better actor than his son?

Kiefer's a relative young'un. Bet he's got some tricks up his sleeve. He's worth watching.

Agreed too, on Philip Seymour Hoffman. Guy's a chameleon. Dons roles and sheds them like they're his own molting skins. He is definitely, as was already noted here, "criminally underrated."


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

i liked keifer in "Phone Booth" but a tv show and Ford commercials do not a career make

Compare their body of work.

Donald Sutherland 

Kiefer Sutherland


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

LOL... au contraire. Neither you nor I have access to Kiefer's annual income info, but I wager he makes healthy multiples of what you and I make combined. You want to scoff at that, be my guest. I call it a career and an admirable one.


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## jicon (Jan 12, 2005)

Max said:


> LOL... au contraire. Neither you nor I have access to Kiefer's annual income info, but I wager he makes healthy multiples of what you and I make combined. You want to scoff at that, be my guest. I call it a career and an admirable one.


He's on a hit TV show... definitely NOT due to acting range in my opinion. No one is a stand out, really. Very good plot twists in the beginning of the series. Thank the smart writers.

Play the 24 drinking game... Take a swig every time Kiefer says "Within an hour/40/20 minutes.. aka... top of the hour", "Noooo!!!", "You're gonna have to trust me, I can't get into it right now...", or "Damn it!!"

You'll be in a coma after two episodes.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

Of course... it's a well-paced, highly unrealistic show. But that doesn't mean he doesn't do very well within those confines. But I won't belabour the point... to each his own!

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'll take a pass on the drinking game. Had enough spirits this weekend, having attended a wedding celebration... in cruise control now. 

But speaking of repetitious themes, you could certainly say the same for any number of cliched utterances in the CSI or Law & Order series. Try Horatio on CSI: Miami, asking "what have we got, Speed?" as he lifts his mirror shades for the zillionth time.


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

Here are my picts for the top 10 actresses in no particular order.

Kathy Bates
Jodie Foster
Sigourney Weaver
Halle Berry
Robin Wright Penn
Carrie-Anne Moss
Gillian Anderson
Milla Jovovich
Sarah Michelle Gellar
Uma Thurman

Laterz


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Max, I tried to sit in on my son's "24" marathon. They had the boxed DVD set, and after about 5 hours I crashed. Luckily, he took bathroom and snack breaks. However, it is an addictive show.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

'Tis indeed, Dr. G. Alas, I find with certain shows that unless one has slavishly devoted oneself to catching every episode in sequence, it loses much of its attraction. I can watch three episodes of 24 in a row and be fascinated, then not care a whit if I don't catch any more for months on end.

We have been enjoying various other series over the past year - Slings and Arrows, Carnivale to name a couple of high-quality ones. ReGenesis, too... and man, we're stuffed to the gills with the original CSI series (dang if I can help myself but I have a thing for Marg Helgenberger, even if the show has some seriously annoying bits that have long ago become part of its trademark feel.

Anyway, back to actors, right? Okay, let's see... this is getting tough, since so many worthy contenders have already been named. I think Paul Gross is awesome in Slings and Arrows... I had no idea he could act. Also enjoyable actors: Peter Outerbridge and Sarah Strange, both currently working in ReGenesis... all Canucks. On a more patriot-indifferent front, I am charmed by the guy who plays House in House... whatsisname... what a likable ogre. Better google him up... hold on... oh yeah, Hugh Laurie. Pretty good schtick he has going on that show.

On the female front: from Carnevale and a string of supporting roles in smaller movies, Clea Duvall... a young woman with an arresting appearance and great acting chops. From the same show, Clancy Brown is a commanding figure as the demented/possessed priest. The same guy played the sadistic guard in The Shawshank Redemption.

More TV: I am a DaVinci's Inquest fan. I know Sinc thinks it's a morbid show (don't think he's yet managed to catch a single episode, however) but Nicholas Campbell is fantastic as the lead character.

Okay, I'll stop here. I usually can't get into top 10 lists for favourites in the art world, because it's such a vast and varied world. Top 50 is more like it... but I don't rank them anyway. It's much more fun to graze here, then graze there...


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## maximusbibicus (Feb 25, 2002)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> Ed Harris
> Alan Arkin
> Chistopher Walken
> Kevin Spacey
> Johnny Depp, if not now, then soon to be added, he's on his way


Did ya just watch Glengarry Glen Ross?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Max, "ReGenesis" is another show I try to watch wheneve it is on, trying not to miss out on too many shows in order to keep up.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

Great show, Dr. G. Love the women in it, too... cool, beautiful, brainy smart types. Sure, this show has its own pseudo-SCI thang going on, no denying it. But all the same, there's a new breed of show out there which ain't stereotypically Canadian - in other words, they're hip, smart, not impoverished in terms of production values - not apologetically Canadian. I consider Regenesis one of that breed. It has some flaws but the weight of its charms easily eclipses them.

Great show for its harrowing topical nature, too.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Max, it shows that Canadians are also able to produce quality shows for a broader market.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

My favourite actor has always been Daniel Day-Lewis. Or maybe, its how much I liked (or liked hating) the characters he's played. 

And, although not maybe the greatest actor, I pretty much enjoy almost any Tom Hanks movie I've seen.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Regenesis was terrific - loved it in HD and it was cool with Rogers on Demand I could time shift my watching.

ehMax.. DDL is phenomenal......standouts - *Last of the Mohicans* and *My Left Foot*- the latter a tour de force for an able bodied person. :clap:

Of course having DDL and Juliette Binoche kicking both their careers off in *Incredible Lightness of Being*....wow....one of my very fav movies.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

My Left foot is the first time I seen him. Last of the Mohicans.. great. Loved In the Name of the Father, and Gangs of New York. (Coincidentally, both of which had U2 in the sound track)  And, coincidentally, his first film was called Sunday Bloody Sunday.


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## beagleyguy (Nov 9, 2004)

I'd definitely add Jake Gyllenhaal. I think he's very much an actor of our time now.


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## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

MacDoc said:


> If I said a car on a set was eye candy am I degrading the car ??...no. It's a generic descriptor not attached to any particular thing at all. Eye of the beholder for sure in this case.


Just joined the thread.

Interesting comparison, MacDoc. I'm sure most women would love being compared to cars and other objects while you defend your use of terminology. After all, demeaning and objectifiying are close to synonyms in feminist-speak.

I don't know why you felt obligated to even introduce an "eye candy" category in a thread about "top actors" in the first case.

My picks (and I'm limiting my choices to the contents of my DVD collection):

Kevin Spacey (Comedy, villian, sociopath, everyman - this guy can do anything!)
Christina Ricci (powerful performance in Prozac Nation)
John Malkovich (another guy who can do anything)
F. Murray Abraham (best villian of all time in Amadeus)
Harrison Ford (in addition to the obvious - Witness, Regarding Henry)
Liam Neeson (Rob Roy - fav movie of all time)
Ian McDiarmid (no one else could have done that role)
Morgan Freeman (Seven, Glory, etc, etc) 
Natalie Portman (The Professional left a powerful mark, Closer dug it deeper)
Kate Winslet (Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, Heavenly Creatures [which has the most brutal murder scene ever filmed])

There are other actors I like, and whose movies I go to see, but who are only "one note" actors, like Brad Pitt or Jean Reno.

I just noticed my female actors are not of the classic Hollywood body-types. Hmm, I wonder if that means anything.....?


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

I know this thread is all about personal preferences, which I suppose is why you could find "non Hollywood body-types" (whatever that means) attractive, but I had to mention my limited admiration for the reptilian John Malkovich. I find he does creepy very well but his range is narrowly circumscribed... I just don't see him pulling off a variety of hugely different roles. He was excellent in Empire of the Sun but in too many films I find him annoyingly mannered, distant, contrived. You mentioned Spacey - now _he_ can take on a huge range. But Malkovich? I think not.

But I am in agreement about Morgan Freeman, F. Murray Abraham and Kate Winslet - just saw her in Heavenly Creatures again a few weeks ago and while it seems we have different ideas of what constitutes 'brutal' in a murder scene, it is indeed appalling - like rubber-necking at a bad car wreck.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

"reptilian"..love it 

I agree with "limited range of roles" for some actors ( gender neutral). They are terrific within that range and get a bit pathetic when they try a "bust out".
Anthony Hopkins and Albert Finney I really admire for their wide range and courage to make the attemtp, Ben Kingsley too and Kate Winslet.


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## Mrs. Furley (Sep 1, 2004)

Thank you to the people who mentioned F. Murray Abraham and Philip Seymour Hoffman. I hadn't thought of them but they are both such wonderful actors!

And I would just like to add that the term "eye candy" is perhaps appropriate for a car but not for a woman. If you choose to use that phrase, go right ahead, but don't expect the majority of women (and decent men) to respect you for it. It's just plain cheesy...and quite lame! That's how I feel about it anyway.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Mrs. Furley said:


> And I would just like to add that the term "eye candy" is perhaps appropriate for a car but not for a woman. If you choose to use that phrase, go right ahead, but don't expect the majority of women (and decent men) to respect you for it. It's just plain cheesy...and quite lame! That's how I feel about it anyway.


:clap:


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

It's certainly interesting that I heard the term "arm candy" on television refering to a celebrity hanging off the arm of another celebrity at a gala.

"eye candy"..."arm candy"..."(fill-in-the-blank) candy" let's ban the word candy, it's offensive. lol

...but I think we should just move on.

Re: Unbearable Lightness of Being...you missed Lena Olin.


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## Mrs. Furley (Sep 1, 2004)

kps said:


> "eye candy"..."arm candy"..."(fill-in-the-blank) candy" let's ban the word candy, it's offensive. lol


Well...unless it's just plain candy! Ain't nothing wrong with a little candy now and then.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> Re: Unbearable Lightness of Being...you missed Lena Olin.


I have had the longest crush on her.
She was great in "Havanna" which was a great movie with an incredible soundtrack
I think it went unnoticed since it didn't denounce Castro
A real treat to rent

Is it me or has nobody mentioned Robert Redford? (co-starred in Havanna)
Best romantic line in a movie;
Olin meets Redford for a coffee after revolution, but before Redford leaves on ferry (after he just saved her husband's life by having a diamond removed from his arm to pay off guards)

Olin: "Have you been waiting long?"
Redford: [pause, looks up and squints] "All of my life."

I can't believe I forgot about him.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Mrs. Furley said:


> Thank you to the people who mentioned F. Murray Abraham and Philip Seymour Hoffman. I hadn't thought of them but they are both such wonderful actors!
> 
> And I would just like to add that the term "eye candy" is perhaps appropriate for a car but not for a woman. If you choose to use that phrase, go right ahead, but don't expect the majority of women (and decent men) to respect you for it. It's just plain cheesy...and quite lame! That's how I feel about it anyway.


very Oprah of you
I hear women objectify men in real life and in popular media and it somehow is accepted
"eye candy" is somehow evil, but the words I hear women use when speaking of Brad Pitt or any other hunk with his shirt off leaves me scratching my head

the "pendulum" has swung back the other way


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## Mrs. Furley (Sep 1, 2004)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> very Oprah of you
> I hear women objectify men in real life and in popular media and it somehow is accepted
> "eye candy" is somehow evil, but the words I hear women use when speaking of Brad Pitt or any other hunk with his shirt off leaves me scratching my head
> 
> the "pendulum" has swung back the other way


And I don't even watch Oprah! Can't stand it, for the most part.
Actually, MACSPECTRUM, I don't care for the objectification of women *or* men and I think it's unnecessary. I guess I should have been more clear - I don't think it's cool for either gender to use the phrase "eye candy".


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Mrs. Furley said:


> And I don't even watch Oprah! Can't stand it, for the most part.
> Actually, MACSPECTRUM, I don't care for the objectification of women *or* men and I think it's unnecessary. I guess I should have been more clear - I don't think it's cool for either gender to use the phrase "eye candy".


tell that to Sarah Jessica Parker


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## Mrs. Furley (Sep 1, 2004)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> tell that to Sarah Jessica Parker


You see...she's not cool and she uses the phrase!
She bothers me more than Oprah. 
They are both living in some kind of la-la land.


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Mrs. Furley said:


> You see...she's not cool and she uses the phrase!
> She bothers me more than Oprah.
> They are both living in some kind of la-la land.


hmmm you deem them both to be "not cool" but yet both have oodles of dollars
what does that tell you?

oprah doesn't marry her long time lover "stedman" and never receives grief over it
but if a rich man with a popular tv show had a long time g/f he'd be constantly getting questions about "when you gonna get married?"

riddle me this;
women who go to males strip clubs go absolutely crazy and can touch the men how ever the wish
men who go to stip clubs cannot jump up and down and touch the women, lest they be thrown out or slapped upside the head

if a man cheats; "he's a dog"
if a woman cheats; "he didn't meet my emotional needs"

[rolls eyes]


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## Mrs. Furley (Sep 1, 2004)

It tells me absolutely nothing that they have oodles of dollars...what does that have to do with anything? Okay, you tell me...what does it tell you? I'd love to know!

Are you telling me that you live your life and make your moral decisions based on what goes on in Hollywood?

I don't understand what your point is.



MACSPECTRUM said:


> hmmm you deem them both to be "not cool" but yet both have oodles of dollars
> what does that tell you?
> 
> oprah doesn't marry her long time lover "stedman" and never receives grief over it
> ...


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

reply in eye-cand thread


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## Mrs. Furley (Sep 1, 2004)

For the record, anyone who cheats is a cheater, male or female. I don't see it any differently for men or women. I kind of see what you're getting at now and I don't like double standards either, MACSPECTRUM. I can't comment on the stripclub thing because I just don't like stripclubs and don't know anything about them.

I think we are actually on the same page as far as equality goes, are we not? All I can say is that I consider myself to be an equalist (not a feminist) and I wish more people were.

That's it.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

From CNN.com

"LOS ANGELES, California (Hollywood Reporter) -- Sylvester Stallone is signing on to reprise his role as boxer Rocky Balboa in the sixth installment of the long-running film series, which he wrote and will direct.
In the new installment, Rocky, lonely and retired in Philadelphia, comes out of retirement, intending to fight a few low-profile local fights. He's approached to fight a match with reigning heavyweight champ Mason "The Line" Dixon, and soon his comeback ignites a media firestorm.

"'Rocky Balboa' is about everybody who feels they want to participate in the race of life, rather than be a bystander," Stallone said in a statement. "You're never too old to climb a mountain, if that's your desire."
____________________________________________________

I am waiting for Rocky XX, when he takes on every person in his retirement home. We shall see.


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## Mrs. Furley (Sep 1, 2004)

Go Sly!
I made it to Rocky IV and then kind of lost interest. But I may check this out just to see what it's all about. And I will definitely check out Rocky XX if I'm lucky enough to be around for it!



Dr.G. said:


> From CNN.com
> 
> "LOS ANGELES, California (Hollywood Reporter) -- Sylvester Stallone is signing on to reprise his role as boxer Rocky Balboa in the sixth installment of the long-running film series, which he wrote and will direct.
> In the new installment, Rocky, lonely and retired in Philadelphia, comes out of retirement, intending to fight a few low-profile local fights. He's approached to fight a match with reigning heavyweight champ Mason "The Line" Dixon, and soon his comeback ignites a media firestorm.
> ...


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## Mrs. Furley (Sep 1, 2004)

Dr. G, there is apparently a Rambo 4 in production as well. Sylvester is certainly keeping busy.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Mrs. F., I never liked the Rambo movies. I really liked Rocky (the original). I have seen all of the others, but would not want to resee any other than the original. Still, "Rocky XX -- The Battle with the Geriatric Giant" will be one I have to see, if I am still alive.


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## Mrs. Furley (Sep 1, 2004)

Dr.G. said:


> Mrs. F., I never liked the Rambo movies.


Nor did I, Dr. G.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I haven't had time to back through the entire thread but has anyone mentioned either Clark Gable or Spencer Tracy?


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

SINC said:


> I haven't had time to back through the entire thread but has anyone mentioned either Clark Gable or Spencer Tracy?


Don't think so. My vote definitely goes to Spencer Tracy, though. I'm also a big fan of Lionel Barrymore.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sinc, please tell me that I voted for Spencer Tracy in my original "baker's dozen". If not, I have been remiss, and will have to chalk it up to a fading memory. He is one of my favorite actors.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

Max said:


> I dunno. I think Kiefer rivals his dad. ....
> 
> I think we tend to grant his dad more chops because he's a a hallowed senior who's done his celluloid time and who, correct me if I'm wrong, never dirtied his hands working in that lesser business, the televised one. It's silly to make distinctions of course, considering the amount of tripe Hollywood desperately pumps out year after year, but celluloid is older and often considered more mature... at least by the older crowd. But Donald was memorable as Oddball in Kelly's Heros and he was fabulous in his paranoid-soaked cameo in Oliver Stone's Kennedy... but does his best work collectively make him a better actor than his son?


Watch the new series Commander in Chief - it's similar to the West Wing. Donald Sutherland plays the arch-rival to Gina Davis, trying to be one step ahead of the President, by spoiling her plans. But Gina Davis' character usually wins out. Donald Sutherland's had some good movie roles, yeah I saw him in Kelly's Heroes. He's great as a crazy guy. I saw him play a crazy criminal role in a Canadian movie with two cops.

As someone's already pointed out Donald has done alot more acting in his time than his son Kiefer. Kiefer's almost there, but he's still fairly new on the block.

Interestingly enough, Kiefer is the only actor that I've actually seen in person a few years back. I passed by him in Ottawa walking in the Rideau Center, probably on his way from the NAC where he was in a play, to the Westin Hotel, where he was probably staying.


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## kevs~just kevs (Mar 21, 2005)

Julianne Moore - I love her movies! She is absoulutly georgous but not in that typical way... what can I say, i'm a sucker for Natural Redheads  But I really do enjoy her movies, she's so graceful even in intense roles.

For the men my vote is for JD


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Dr.G. said:


> Sinc, please tell me that I voted for Spencer Tracy in my original "baker's dozen". If not, I have been remiss, and will have to chalk it up to a fading memory. He is one of my favorite actors.


Sorry Dr. G., but here is that post:

Here's my "bakers dozen", in no particular order. I trust by actor one meant "men", with actresses being "women". I have my favorites among that gender as well.

Gary Cooper
Humphrey Bogart
Jimmy Stewart
Robert Redford
Paul Newman
Robin Williams
Morgan Freeman
Dustin Hoffman
Denzel Washington
Kevin Costner
Gene Hackman
Tim Robbins
Christopher Walken
__________________


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Thanks, Sinc. As the old saying goes, "The mind is the first to go." I shall crawl away and live the rest of my short remaining days on some deserted island, shunned by those of you who know quality actors and know who I left off my list (e.g., Spencer Tracy, Henry Fonda, et al). Mea culpa.


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## Cameo (Aug 3, 2004)

Maybe he's not on anyone else's actor list but I have always liked Sam Elliot or Richard Gere for the simple reason that I find them sexy. I pretty much gave up TV three years ago and never really took it too seriously anyhow.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> I have had the longest crush on her.
> She was great in "Havanna" which was a great movie with an incredible soundtrack
> I think it went unnoticed since it didn't denounce Castro
> A real treat to rent


Yeah, Olin is very sexy...ummm, can I say that here...anyway, I thought the reunion of Olin and Binoche in Chocolat was pretty interesting. I kept waiting for a faux lesbian photo shoot to happen. LOL!


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

> I kept waiting for a faux lesbian photo shoot to happen. LOL!
> (Olin and Binoche in Chocolat)


now I'm not going to get ANY sleep tonight


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## Mac Yak (Feb 7, 2005)

Dr.G. said:


> ....I am waiting for Rocky XX, when he takes on every person in his retirement home. We shall see.


10 Actors I Love To Hate:

Jim Carrey
Tom Cruise
Melanie Griffith
Nicole Kidman
Adam Sandler
Arnold Schwartzenegger
Sylvester Stallone
Meryl Streep
Robin Williams
Bruce Willis

Meanwhile...

10 Actors I Love:

Humphrey Bogart
Clint Eastwood
Katherine Hepburn
Harvey Keitel
Ben Kingsley
Steve McQueen
Robert Mitchum
Julianne Moore
Kevin Spacey
Hilary Swank

10 Great Directors:

Bob Clampett 
Francis Ford Coppola
Atom Egoyan
George Roy Hill
Alfred Hitchcock
Norman Jewison 
Stanley Kubrick
David Lean
Guy Maddin
Martin Scorsese

/thread hijack


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## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

Saw Lena Olin in The Ninth Gate, opposite Johnny Depp. Not the best faustian movie, but still good in parts. Lena was nice to watch in that role.

I do like semi-serious faustian movies. Devil's Advocate, Ninth Gate, From Hell, Constantine, the Exorcist movies, even End of Days. But I don't have a fav, as they are all pretty flawed. Maybe Witches of Eastwick would be my fav!

Am I missing a good one?


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## lpkmckenna (Jul 4, 2004)

MACSPECTRUM said:


> riddle me this;
> women who go to males strip clubs go absolutely crazy and can touch the men how ever the wish
> men who go to stip clubs cannot jump up and down and touch the women, lest they be thrown out or slapped upside the head
> 
> ...


Long answer: men and women are intellectually equal, but not the same psychologically. 

A male stripper being grabbed by women feels elated.
A female stripper being grabbed by men feels violated.
Diff'rent brain wiring.
Imposing egalitarian rules in such situations is counter-intuitive.

Short answer: we guys have been suckered.  Again.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

> A male stripper being grabbed by women feels elated.


Oh, really. Do you have this on good authority, lpkmckenna? Or do you speak from personal experience?

I find your statement a tad too generalist to be very useful. I rather doubt all male strippers feel elated every time some gal reaches over to tuck a greasy bill into his thong strap... anyway, I also used to know a gal, once upon a time, who definitely got a buzz from men salivating for her as she did her stage routine. She used to revel in the power she held over her audience... that is, until the whole thing began to look so pathetic and sad that she decided to rescue herself from oblivion. But at one point she was quite happy to have the men staring and panting. Are you going to tell me that she's a statistical anomaly?

Strippers as subject matter are, sadly, prone to the same lazy-minded tendency of gross generalizations as we (John and Josephine Q. Public) are wont to make with cops, teachers, politicians, prostitutes... any number of gigs. People also like to compound the mistake by likening one to another - for example, the nasty notion that all politicians are whores.

As well, you might try and qualify your rather glib statement that women and men are "intellectually equal." Not that I disagree, mind - but I am curious as to how you arrived at that conclusion and what you might bring to the table to back it up. Is it gut instinct you're reckoning by, or have some studies swayed your opinion at some point?


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