# Movies on AppleTV, do you find the sound volume wanting ?



## MacAddict (Jan 29, 2006)

I viewed a rented movie last night and had to turn the sound upto 34 ( seldom need to have the sound set above a 24-27 range for satelliteTV,) and still had difficulty hearing the dialogue when people were intentionally conversing in a low voice. Now I have noticed this before, but only reached the conclusion that it is only when I am viewing on AppleTV that I have this experience. Quite frankly AppleTV is the only method of 'pay for view movies' I have ever used so I don't know if this is standard for downloaded movies or not. Do any other AppleTV viewers experience this and if so do you have any thoughts on why this is so ?


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

I find the volume is slightly low on PPV, the movie channels, and sometimes Apple TV. I believe this is because of the encoding - Dolby Surroud,etc. 

I just mute my TV and play things through my stereo/surround system


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I always have the opposite issue, it's too loud. First I turn off stereo and use mono. Then I set the volume level to where it is comfortable for normal dialogue. That allows me to listen closely if the scene requires low conversation and prevents my eardrums from breaking when the action scene quadruples the volume (as it always does in most movies).


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

What you're referring to is dynamic range and is usually a function of your stereo rather than the components plugged into it. What you want is some expansion/compression circuitry to reduce the overall dynamic range so that you don't have to "ride the volume control" to balance soft and loud sounds. This function is normally part of your amp/receiver settings.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

do you watch bluray or DVDs? do you notice the same thing there? 

something to keep in mind is that movies are mixed to a different reference level than TV so as to allow for more dynamic range and artistic emphasis on certain sections. a theatrical release will have one mix with a gigantic amount of dynamic range, then a DVD/BD release will often have another with slightly less, and then a "made for tv" mix of the same movie will have even less 

many receivers have something called DRC (dynamic range control) or "midnight mode", although i don't believe there is anything in the dolby digital bitstream in an ATV streaming movie that will trigger DRC


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## egremont (Jun 14, 2009)

MacAddict said:


> I viewed a rented movie last night and had to turn the sound upto 34 ( seldom need to have the sound set above a 24-27 range for satelliteTV,) and still had difficulty hearing the dialogue when people were intentionally conversing in a low voice. Now I have noticed this before, but only reached the conclusion that it is only when I am viewing on AppleTV that I have this experience. Quite frankly AppleTV is the only method of 'pay for view movies' I have ever used so I don't know if this is standard for downloaded movies or not. Do any other AppleTV viewers experience this and if so do you have any thoughts on why this is so ?


Yes, I do have the same problem. I do not have an additional sound system. Really do not want to purchase a system - do not want all those speakers. The one series I have been watching on Net Flicks, "Waking the Dead", is the only one I need to turn down the sound to the same range as my satellite feed. All others from NetFlicks and Movies on iTunes and others from DVD player all require the sound to be turned to the same range you mention. 

I noticed on Gizmodo, a small speaker system for AppleTV was featured a couple of weeks ago and costs in the 200 range. That made sense to me. I don't want all those little speakers or end up spending more for a sound system that I paid for my TV. Also, I want to keep my VCR/DVD combination.


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2011)

Another thing to consider here is also that when a lot of content is down-sampled from 5.1 to stereo there is generally volume loss as well so if the sources are 5.1 of some sort and getting played back stereo this may be part of the cause as well.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

well, thats not really true...there wouldnt be volume "loss". 

in a fold-down individual channel volume actually has to be *decreased* a little bit to prevent clipping, but overall program volume should be ~ the same


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

broad said:


> well, thats not really true...there wouldnt be volume "loss".
> 
> in a fold-down individual channel volume actually has to be *decreased* a little bit to prevent clipping, but overall program volume should be ~ the same


All depends on the equipment you use. In a full dynamic range DVD or broadcast there can be a huge difference between the highest volumes, often explosions or other shock-value sounds, and the lowest, usually reserved for dialogue. Most receivers allow you to change the useable dynamic range in order to compensate for the listening environment, and most TV's also compress the signal to be used on the much smaller speakers available on TV. Many times these controls can be adjusted, but you have to RTFM (read the *silly* manual) to find the instructions.


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## polywog (Aug 9, 2007)

Is it possible your television has some sort of per-input sound control? It might be applying dynamic range compression to your satellite input but not to apple tv.


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2011)

broad said:


> well, thats not really true...there wouldnt be volume "loss".
> 
> in a fold-down individual channel volume actually has to be *decreased* a little bit to prevent clipping, but overall program volume should be ~ the same


Because of the needed decrease as well as the inherent differences in mixing for 5.1 vs stereo there will often be _apparent_ volume "loss". Depending on the content in question the *decrease* is typically a lot more than a "little". According to this wikipedia article the typical decrease will be -3db (which is more than "a little" -- it's literally halving the levels), also if they are using the Rt/Lt method (which they probably are in order to preserve compatibility with older pro logic gear) then they are literally halving the level of each of the L, C and R channels not to mention any potential issues arising from the 90 degree phase shift of the rear L/R channel contents (depending on what's going on in those channels it can affect the apparent volume as well). That's what I would call considerable.

Downmixing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also consider that a stereo (or 2.1) mix will be done a lot differently than a 5.1 (or 7.1) mix. 5.1 (or higher) mixes are generally done with MUCH greater dynamic range than a stereo mix. Downsampling (or summing) the 5.1 channels back into stereo will not always yield great results and rarely gives a result similar to a real stereo mix would have been done from the studio. That results in inconsistencies with overall program volume (whether you are talking dynamic range or metering the overall RMS as a whole).

Lots of HTPC software has built-in stuff to help with this apparent volume loss (compression and/or limiting) but AppleTV does not as far as I know.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

fjnmusic said:


> All depends on the equipment you use. In a full dynamic range DVD or broadcast there can be a huge difference between the highest volumes, often explosions or other shock-value sounds, and the lowest, usually reserved for dialogue. Most receivers allow you to change the useable dynamic range in order to compensate for the listening environment, and most TV's also compress the signal to be used on the much smaller speakers available on TV. Many times these controls can be adjusted, but you have to RTFM (read the *silly* manual) to find the instructions.


if im not mistaken the receivers work by identifying a DRC flag in the AC3 bitstream and as i mentioned earlier i dont believe that flag exists in ATV broadcasts. i could be wrong though


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2011)

broad said:


> if im not mistaken the receivers work by identifying a DRC flag in the AC3 bitstream and as i mentioned earlier i dont believe that flag exists in ATV broadcasts. i could be wrong though


You're probably right there, it's unlikely that it exists in iTunes store content -- it's typically inserted into the broadcast streams themselves when they are encoded and the iTunes content is probably derived from a different source.


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## polywog (Aug 9, 2007)

broad said:


> if im not mistaken the receivers work by identifying a DRC flag in the AC3 bitstream and as i mentioned earlier i dont believe that flag exists in ATV broadcasts. i could be wrong though


I may be mistaken, but can't a receiver apply DRC in real time to an AC3 stream regardless of what's set in the DRC flag? There's no audible difference between what I get from Apple TV, and a similarly well encoded audio track from other sources, albeit with a modern receiver. But my old DB930 behaved exactly the same way, and it provided both AC3 and DTS DRC. 

I suppose a good question for the OP might be are the sat. and Apple TV connected the same way? And is there some sort of normalization setting available on the set top box for the satellite that's altering the source beforehand?


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

i don't think thats how it works..AFAIK the DRC mix is pre-baked into the bitstream by the engineer...



> 22. What is the “Midnight Mode” on my new Dolby Digital A/V receiver?
> Dolby Digital soundtracks can have a very wide dynamic range between soft and loud sounds. At a full playback level, this can be thrilling, providing a truly theatrical experience, particularly for movies.
> Late at night, however, the loud sound effects found on some movie soundtracks could disturb your family or neighbors. But if you turn down the volume to “keep the peace,” the dialogue will be hard to hear, and subtle low-level effects may get lost altogether.
> What you’d really like to do is turn down the volume on just the loud effects, turn up the volume on quiet sounds, and keep the dialogue at the same level. This is exactly what Dolby Digital’s Dynamic Range Control feature does. To help explain its function, manufacturers of Dolby Digital
> ...


http://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/Assets/US/Doc/Professional/42_DDFAQ.pdf


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2011)

broad said:


> i don't think thats how it works..AFAIK the DRC mix is pre-baked into the bitstream by the engineer...
> 
> http://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/Assets/US/Doc/Professional/42_DDFAQ.pdf


Yep, you're right. Looks like it is baked in at encoding time. 

I've never actually encoded a 5.1 mix -- but I've mixed a few 5.1 projects (and sent out stems to get encoded -- I can't afford that gear :yikes: ).


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## polywog (Aug 9, 2007)

broad said:


> i don't think thats how it works..AFAIK the DRC mix is pre-baked into the bitstream by the engineer...


I probably didn't explain myself clearly - my point was that the receiver could apply DRC. For instance, on the DB930, it ranges from Off, to Standard (what's set in the bitstream), 10% increments in between those values and Max (which compresses it to hell.) A far cry from just "Normal" or "Midnight" mode. And since Max typically compresses far more than what was engineered, it seems I may have a valid point.

Which brings us back to the OP - either he's applying DRC to one stream and not the other, the set top box isn't connect via TOSLink or HDMI, or it's normalizing the volume before sending to the TV (or, the volume is cranked on the set top...)


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## egremont (Jun 14, 2009)

MacAddict said:


> I viewed a rented movie last night and had to turn the sound upto 34 ( seldom need to have the sound set above a 24-27 range for satelliteTV,) and still had difficulty hearing the dialogue when people were intentionally conversing in a low voice. Now I have noticed this before, but only reached the conclusion that it is only when I am viewing on AppleTV that I have this experience. Quite frankly AppleTV is the only method of 'pay for view movies' I have ever used so I don't know if this is standard for downloaded movies or not. Do any other AppleTV viewers experience this and if so do you have any thoughts on why this is so ?


Received an e-mail today from Audyssey regarding the Lower East Side Speakers that Gizmodo reviewed recently. The review featured the fact that they were for Apple TV2, because of optical audio input/output. The availability notice I received today informed me that they were now available in Apple.com store (USA). 200.00. The Apple store does not mention the AppleTV 2 usage - just computer, ipad etc.. Soon will be available at Best Buy and Future Shop - both countries a mid September availability. 

Suggest you read the review in Gizmodo. I am tempted because of size and just two speakers and hopefully no need to change to multi speaker home theatre setup.


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## egremont (Jun 14, 2009)

Speakers from Audyssey - Lower East Side are now available through apple.ca, same price as US. 199.00.

Nothing is mentioned about using optical connection for Apple TV2. This makes a purchase less likely for me.


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