# Why iPhone will not come to Canada?



## MacGYVER (Apr 15, 2005)

I've been thinking and watching the news lately with regards to Rogers and Research In Motion (RIM). RIM has just made the headlines again with an increase in sales from their Blackberry line and Rogers being the biggest carrier of RIM devices also is racking in the cash from sales of RIM devices. Rogers also makes a killing on charging high prices for their packages with regards to Blackberry users.

RIM is like the Microsoft to the North in Canada in bed with Rogers. There is no way Apple has a fighting chance against RIM if Rogers is making so much money off of each Blackberry sold and package sold in Canada. 

If Rogers saw an opportunity to make as much money from Apple's iPhone as they are doing with RIM and its Blackberry's, then we would have had the iPhone along time ago. I believe that Apple is seen as a threat to RIM and Rogers strong marriage here in Canada. 

Imagine if Apple's iPhone came to Canada, Rogers gave the exact cell plans in price as down in the U.S., well our Waterloo company RIM will see sales drop like a rock, as both Rogers and RIM depend on the software and high cell plans to make any decent money in sales. I strongly believe this is a major reason that we don't see Apple's iPhone available here in Canada. 

The above is my opinion and speculation, but I wonder how far from the truth the above really is? What are your opinions?


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## Veej (Feb 16, 2006)

MacGYVER said:


> I've been thinking and watching the news lately with regards to Rogers and Research In Motion (RIM). RIM has just made the headlines again with an increase in sales from their Blackberry line and Rogers being the biggest carrier of RIM devices also is racking in the cash from sales of RIM devices. Rogers also makes a killing on charging high prices for their packages with regards to Blackberry users.
> 
> RIM is like the Microsoft to the North in Canada in bed with Rogers. There is no way Apple has a fighting chance against RIM if Rogers is making so much money off of each Blackberry sold and package sold in Canada.
> 
> ...


I concurr..

I've been singing the same song for over a year..But you forgot to mention the 3some thats happening... and the 3rd lover is our Govt. they approved the sale of Fido to Rogers which was the making of the Manopoly we see now..

We will never see the iPhone unless another company brings it to us..Telus, ATT, Virgin....


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## Mississauga (Oct 27, 2001)

Your commentary breaks my heart... because it may be closer to the truth than I'm willing to accept. I desperately want a legitimate Canadian iPhone, but am close to deciding on an iPod touch for the features I'd like in a cell phone.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Mississauga said:


> Your commentary breaks my heart... because it may be closer to the truth than I'm willing to accept. I desperately want a *legitimate *Canadian iPhone, but am close to deciding on an iPod touch for the features I'd like in a cell phone.


There is absolutely nothing "illegitimate" about buying an iPhone in the United States and using it on fido or Rogers. You won't have an affordable data plan, but you certainly aren't breaking any laws, anywhere. That may not be what you meant, but...


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

'NEVER' is a long time. It will come eventually, but it may not be until Apple releases a version that another carrier can use.

How long will that take? I'm not holding my breath,


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

Rogers will have the iPhone by the end of the year. Guaranteed.

Consumers have been asking for it. Rogers can only come up with so many excuses not to carry it. With the threat of Telus possibly moving to GSM, Rogers would be committing suicide if they didn't bring the iPhone to Canada.


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## depmode101 (Sep 4, 2002)

> they approved the sale of Fido to Rogers which was the making of the Manopoly we see now..


Rogers buying Fido has not created a mOnopoly - the choice to offer GSM services was a choice that any cell phone company has had, or does continue to have.
Each company has the option to choose what type of cell service to offer its customers.

Just because Bell and Telus havent (as of yet) offered GSM service, doesnt make it a bad thing that Rogers does.


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## Veej (Feb 16, 2006)

guytoronto said:


> Rogers will have the iPhone by the end of the year. Guaranteed.
> 
> Consumers have been asking for it. Rogers can only come up with so many excuses not to carry it. With the threat of Telus possibly moving to GSM, Rogers would be committing suicide if they didn't bring the iPhone to Canada.


You think Mr.Rogers cares if we ask about it ...dude mulla vs annoying consumer who has no choice..c'mon we live in Mr. Rogers' neighborhood..He owns you....

I think another company is the only way untill then Rogers and RIM will keep milking the market. Is it coincidence that RIM outlook is "Rosy for this years profits" announced back to back with Rogers Profit up 44% this year..

RIM shares roar on rosier outlook-The Star-*YESTERDAY*
TheStar.com | Business | RIM shares roar on rosier outlook

Rogers' earnings soar- The Star-*TODAY*
TheStar.com - Business


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## nick24 (Jul 11, 2006)

I disagree with the original poster. I've said this before and I'll say it again.

IMHO - BlackBerries and iPhones are different products for different markets.

Yes, I agree that both devices allow users to make phone calls, send and receive emails/texts, browse the internet and listen to music.

BUT

One product is aimed at corporate users (ie BlackBerry) while the other is aimed at the consumer market (ie iPhone). Yes, these are generalizations, but please allow me to continue.

Put yourself on Bay Street or Parliament Hill - how many of the currently BB using people can you picture using an iPhone? To the average businessman or parliamentarian (or deluded low-level bureauocrat) the iPhone is a toy. To you and me, that's fine. There is no way in hell you'll see me carry a BB!

In this light, there are two distinct markets. Sure, there may be some bleeding between markets, but generally, they are distinct. As for different prices for different products, so be it. If there were to be a US-style iPhone pricing model in Canada, so what. That's the plan that comes with the iPhone, just as there will be a plan that comes with a BB. People will complain, but in my eyes, it's like people saying "this product is great, but what it should really have is X, Y & Z." That's fair enough, but when you buy the product, it's quite clear from the outset what you'll get. You know that you won't get X, Y or Z, so don't complain when you don't get it.

Therefore, there is a market for both products, as both have different target markets.

Just my 2c. Feel free to agree or disagree.


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## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

Its not just Rogers that's making a killing off the BB's as our local provider (MTS) does very well off them as well. I really wanted an iPhone but honestly since getting a BB Pearl that interest has diminished a great deal...its not an Apple product but its a VERY polished product and the Pearls form factor is nearly perfect for me.


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## Todd (Oct 14, 2002)

This is a strange read. Usually when a USA company want to get a piece of the Canadian market and compete with made-in-Canada companies we (Canadians) reach for our pitch forks and storm Ottawa.


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## G-Mo (Sep 26, 2007)

nick24 said:


> Put yourself on Bay Street or Parliament Hill - how many of the currently BB using people can you picture using an iPhone? To the average businessman or parliamentarian (or deluded low-level bureauocrat) the iPhone is a toy. To you and me, that's fine. There is no way in hell you'll see me carry a BB!


This is the most ridiculous comment I have ever heard!? I know 5 people off the top of my head who work in the Financial District (Bay Street) and one in government who have traded Blackberrys for iPhones... and I know of more, in the Financial, who would LOVE too drop their Blackberry for an iPhone, but can't as it's tied to a company plan/policy...


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## 5andman (Oct 15, 2006)

depmode101 said:


> Rogers buying Fido has not created a mOnopoly - the choice to offer GSM services was a choice that any cell phone company has had, or does continue to have.
> Each company has the option to choose what type of cell service to offer its customers.



Not a monopoly -- but, a combination of monopoly and collusion. As a Canadian consumers or my case (living in Toronto) regional, there isn't much choice out there. In other words, there isn't any competition in the sector.

Hopefully, with bandwidth auction coming up, it will open up competition and more foreign participation.

Unfortunately, it takes foreign interest to make the market competitive.


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## nick24 (Jul 11, 2006)

G-Mo - with all due respect, the day I see the people I work with day in day out (Deputy Ministers, Director Generals, Directors and levels below that in the federal government) then I will agree with you. Put it this way, corporate IT departments will not support the iPhone as to most of them, anything from Apple is an alien product, and until IT depts give their blessing, you won't see any non-personally owned iPhones being used by the public service. For starters, who's going to support them? Do you think that the Govt of Canada is going to support the jailbreaking of an iPhone? The media will have a field day on that! While it may not be an illegal thing to do, you know the press will twist it as much as possible.

As for Bay Street. Sure, you know a handful of people with an iPhone, but for every iPhone user, you'll see tens more of people tied to their BB.


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## TheDirtyOne (Sep 5, 2007)

HowEver said:


> There is absolutely nothing "illegitimate" about buying an iPhone in the United States and using it on fido or Rogers. You won't have an affordable data plan, but you certainly aren't breaking any laws, anywhere. That may not be what you meant, but...


That's obviously not what he meant. He's refering to purchasing an iPhone that doesn't need to be unlocked (or 3rd party hard/software) to be used. Essentially, tied to a Canadian carrier.


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## MacWbee (Mar 12, 2006)

*so...*

at this rate, with Telus moving to GSM, could it be that the iPhone will descend on Telus?


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## Visnaut (Jul 22, 2004)

nick24 said:


> One product is aimed at corporate users (ie BlackBerry) while the other is aimed at the consumer market (ie iPhone).


And you think RIM is happy to keep it this way? It's silly to think that they're going to stop once they've conquered the corporate market.

I'm seeing more and more BB devices, like the Pearl, marketed at regular Joe Schmoes, and especially teens, in Rogers ads. Witness all the Facebook commercials recently.

People are wanting more and more out of their cellphones, and RIM is definitely going to try to take a bite out of the "consumer smartphone" market. I'm sure all of the touch-screen devices that RIM is filing patents for currently aren't exactly geared towards the Bay street suits.

Now, as for the issues raised by the original poster, I don't think there's an active, shady deal going on between Rogers and RIM in the background to corner us all with BBs and expensive data plans, but I'm sure the understanding is there that their strategies are mutually beneficial, and a driving force behind each one's directions and projections.

Now, to temper all of this wild speculation, Rogers officials have gone on the record in interviews to say that they think the iPhone is a great phone, and that when Apple is ready to bring it here, so are they.

I think in cases like the iTunes Store, and now the iPhone, it's easy to lay blame with our domestic institutions, such as the CRTC/CRIA in the case of the former, and Rogers/RIM in the case of the latter. But the fact is, we're a small market compared to the States, and although we're close geographically, we're just not a primary or even secondary market to Apple. 

Just like I predicted, the iPhone is following a path to market similar to the iTMS: First the U.S., Europe a short while later, and Canada well over a year and a half after.


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## pictor (Jan 29, 2007)

The 3G iphone is coming...that's already been confirmed (though not when).

That opens up some brand new options (although I'd hate to have to give Bell more money to get an iPhone, I really want to avoid that)


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## GS1 (Aug 31, 2007)

I like the theory that Apple refuses to neuter their WiFi so Rogers can charge you for otherwise free internet access. 

We REALLY need a 2nd GSM carrier to knock Ted Rogers off his federally protected business model (no American carriers allowed). Otherwise AT&T/Cingular, Bell South, Pacific Bell et al would have made sure the Skydome's name didn't change and Canada wouldn't have the most expensive data plans in the Western Hemisphere.


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## Mississauga (Oct 27, 2001)

HowEver said:


> There is absolutely nothing "illegitimate" about buying an iPhone in the United States and using it on fido or Rogers. You won't have an affordable data plan, but you certainly aren't breaking any laws, anywhere. That may not be what you meant, but...


I hear ya, but would prefer to have the ability of returning it to my local reseller, should something "break". I'd also like to simply take it out of the packaging and set it up on the spot - no 3rd party "hacks" and no worries over future updates.

I guess I'm not that desperate... yet.


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## 11thIndian (Feb 5, 2008)

guytoronto said:


> Rogers will have the iPhone by the end of the year. Guaranteed.
> 
> Consumers have been asking for it. Rogers can only come up with so many excuses not to carry it. With the threat of Telus possibly moving to GSM, Rogers would be committing suicide if they didn't bring the iPhone to Canada.


I flip back and forth on this. I hadn't considered the RIM/Rogers connection, but it may be another reason Rogers is dragging it's feet, though I do concede that the Backberry and the iPhone aren't %100 market compatible, business users will likely be with RIM for a while, just as most business users are forced to stick with PCs due to the demands of IT departments.

But I'm starting to become more pessimistic. At this point I don't think Rogers has any intention of releasing the iPhone until someone else can take that business away from them. Right now no one can, and they're numbers probably show they're making more money NOT selling the iPhone and sticking with their current data price gauging, than they would releasing the iPhone and allowing for reasonable rates on data.


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## 11thIndian (Feb 5, 2008)

pictor said:


> The 3G iphone is coming...that's already been confirmed (though not when).
> 
> That opens up some brand new options (although I'd hate to have to give Bell more money to get an iPhone, I really want to avoid that)


3G or not, it's still a GSM phone, so Rogers will be your only choice.


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## MACinist (Nov 17, 2003)

This argument is as far fetched as an iPhone being released next Tuesday.

It's a matter of not agreeing to terms between the two companies:

1) Apple wants a piece of monthly service contract from Rogers'. Rogers' doesn't want to share their service profits. (I don't blame Rogers')
2) Apple wants to sell their own handsets. Apple will not approve every Roger's dealer to sell an iPhone. It will probably be limited to flagship Rogers' owned outlets and Apple stores. Private dealers that have contracts with Rogers' will be out of the loop. This further cuts Rogers' out of the already meager hardware margins. (I don't blame Rogers') 
3) Apple doesn't want Rogers' to add any of their own software/firmware/or logos into the iPhone. (I don't blame Apple)
4) In order to get the full intended experience with an iPhone, it's all about having affordable data plan. Rogers' would have to spend money on increasing bandwith and lower their prices on current plans that people are buying anyways. (I blame Telus, Bell, Rogers/Fido and the Canadian government)

Apple thinks they are entitled to all of the above because their device is so great and Rogers' doesn't like a handset manufacturer having so much leverage and demands. Yes, Rogers/Fido is the only carrier to use GSM in Canada and is a major reason why Rogers is not rushing to meet Apple's demands - they don't have to. I blame the other carriers in fact for not adopting GSM, an internationally recognized technology that has always offered more handsets with better technology faster to market. Telus has finally realized this and is contemplating a switch but until they do officially, Mr. Rogers will not fear loosing customers'. Competition is what brings better/cheaper products to customers', not demanding consumers. 

Right now, Rogers is content continuing to make a killing on data plans (similar to other carriers). And thanks to the worldwide hacker community, they are the unofficial exclusive iPhone compatible carrier in Canada (regardless of Apples demands).


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

MACinist said:


> Competition is what brings better/cheaper products to customers', not demanding consumers.



That is a rather flaw sentence. Demanding consumers will bring suppliers and thus raise the competition, as there will be more suppliers in the market. That is some pretty basic economics.


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## MACinist (Nov 17, 2003)

Adrian. said:


> That is a rather flaw sentence. Demanding consumers will bring suppliers and thus raise the competition, as there will be more suppliers in the market. That is some pretty basic economics.
> .


Why don't you relate your basic statement to the subject matter and see how flawed your statement is. 

"Demanding consumers' bring suppliers": Apple is the ONLY supplier of the iPhone and Rogers/FIDO is the ONLY GSm carrier in Canada, what other suppliers' can consumer's demands bring into the picture?
"and thus raise the competition": Apple being the only supplier and Rogers being the only carrier, what competition did consumer demands inspire? 

Release of competing products/services benefits the consumer, "that is some pretty basic economics". I won't tear up my Commerce degree just yet.


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## CamCanola (Jan 26, 2004)

I agree with the title post. It's one of several reasons that we have no iPhone in this Country. I checked a few months ago to see who sits on the board of directors for each company and as far as I could tell there were no double dippers (which gave no solace). I do know a 17 year old with a Blackberry so I'm not convinced they are just for business anymore. RIM and Rogers have a pretty deep business relationship, maybe deep enough to even help each other out. And I keep seeing an advertisement in the local newspapers about the iPhone from Comwave, current as of today. That means trademark conflict is still ahead. Antiquated, non-competitive but oh so profitable data rates that Rogers would be hard pressed to give up. And a small market, (1/10th) the size of the US? And no one is talking to us the consumer!

Yet I can't help thinking, if there were 2 separate companies on the same network one of them could probably have all this figured out by next Wednesday.


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## misty (Oct 31, 2007)

CamCanola said:


> Yet I can't help thinking, if there were 2 separate companies on the same network one of them could probably have all this figured out by next Wednesday.


Agreed... get Bell to modify their gsm to fit iphone.. bingo.. new ball game.
What are the chances of that happening? 

mi
(Man it's cold here...)


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## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

misty said:


> Agreed... get Bell to modify their gsm to fit iphone.. bingo.. new ball game.
> What are the chances of that happening?
> 
> mi
> (Man it's cold here...)


For the nth time, Bell/Telus use CDMA technology, which is *completely incompatible* with GSM technology. Bell would either have to start offering GSM service, or the iPhone would have to be offered in a CDMA version. I don't see the latter or former happening for a very long time, if ever.


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## misty (Oct 31, 2007)

I was told that bell does have a gsm network for one of their lines.. according to a bell salesperson... maybe they were mistaken.
mi


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

If Rogers wont do it, then AT&T will. They have been sitting in a monopolized market for too long. They are going to get hit hard when the airwaves are opened up.

When the the bandwidth auction goes up this spring is the only time we will know. I highly doubt Rogers is going to get that contract. I think AT&T is going to come in and Apple is going to work through them.

Apple is the only supplier. Rogers (FIDO) is the only GSM carrier RIGHT NOW! If there wasn't consumer demand here Apple would just have signed a rather non lucrative contract with Rogers just to have presence in Canada. Apple is holding out, I can almost guarantee, until AT&T moves into Canada this spring.

I am writing in the context of the bandwidth auction this spring, for any clarification you may need in a future retort.


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

" ... Each company has the option to choose what type of cell service to offer its customers. ..."

Well, not really. Companies make a choice at one point, for technical reasons, and then they build the network. A few hundred million dollars later (for a national network) and the carrier has about as much "choice" as I get to choose which horizon the sun comes up on. In other words, it's a done deal and you just live with it.

Personally, I never believed that Rogers was the heir apparent to the iPhone network in Canada, although it's still early and there's plenty of time to prove me wrong. But, Rogers is not really the kind of company that is going to bend over for anyone, Apple included.

They are the ones who dictate the terms, not the other way around. And, throw in Apple, especially the Steve Jobs incarnation, and you get ... two heads butting against each other with the result that there are two sore heads and no iPhone agreement. Just my own opinion, but if you know Rogers as a company I think you have to agree there's plenty to support that opinion.

Apple will release a CDMA iPhone at some point because there are markets they need to enter where the GSM carrier is not going to be a good mix, and at least one other where it's not even an option.* Whether that will be in the form of a dual mode phone or not is anyone's guess, but I guarantee it's coming. And, in my humble opinion, that's when we will see a carrier offer the iPhone in Canada.

* Two points if you can name the market I'm thinking of. Answer at bottom.

I really don't think the Blackberry is keeping the iPhone out of Canada; they are different devices for different markets and different customers.

There is one major issue that keeps the blackberry popular and insures it will be a favorite of wireless phone providers everywhere. No matter what "smartphone" you compare the Blackberry to, it has one absolutely huge advantage that makes tons of money for carriers in a way the iPhone never can (or any Windows Mobile device, or any other data capable wireless device, for that matter).

RIM has absolutely outstanding and proprietary IP; the result of which can be summed up in one sentence:
One "smartphone" uses up the same bandwidth when downloading or uploading eMail as 100 Blackberries operating simultaneously doing the same thing. The technology is proprietary and no-one, and I mean no-one, can come close to matching it. That is a huge incentive to carriers to market Blackberries over other devices.

But, there is huge demand from consumers for smartphones. The wireless business in Canada is somewhat limited in it's ability to grow now that everyone, more or less, has wireless accounts. Smartphones, like the iPhone, encourage users to spend more per month on non-voice call services. That is a terrific incentive to wireless providers, and it really doesn't conflict with the business customer who uses Blackberries.

Which, if you think about it a little more, gives you yet another reason why Rogers almost certainly stalling for time in talks with Apple. As long as there's no iPhone, they can charge lots more for data access. As long as there's no CDMA iPhone (or dual-mode iPhone) they can continue to charge lots more for data access. So, what would a company with the corporate culture of Rogers do?

If it does happen, it will be when the threat of iPhone v2 makes them sit up and realize there are competitive reasons to support it (with appropriate plans). Still, as the largest carrier in Canada, they really don't need it. Innovation, trying harder, and giving up revenue over the competition is the burden of the competition, not the market leader.

** There is no carrier using GSM in Japan, and Japan is Apple's largest market outside of the US.


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## depmode101 (Sep 4, 2002)

> " ... Each company has the option to choose what type of cell service to offer its customers. ..."
> 
> Well, not really. Companies make a choice at one point, for technical reasons, and then they build the network. A few hundred million dollars later (for a national network) and the carrier has about as much "choice" as I get to choose which horizon the sun comes up on. In other words, it's a done deal and you just live with it.


yes - cell phone companies spend a lot of money to try to determine what network they think will work best for them in the short term and the long term - Bell and Telus decided against the GSM network that Rogers went with.
and it just so happened that many other companies world wide went with the GSM as its network of choice, so Rogers benefits whenever a GSM customer visits Canada.

if they happened to choose the one that isnt the best choice, then unfortunately its hard to make up for it. but - it was their choice - all cell phone companies could have aligned and went with GSM or CDMA - but that wasnt the case.

Rogers also had to spend a lot of money to convert those customers hanging onto their TDMA phones to convert all over to GSM - but it was a cost they allowed themselves to lose for the bigger payout in the end.

so there is no MONOPOLY on GSM coverage in Canada.
if ROGERS was the only company that COULD offer GSM, then yes, there would be a Monopoly - but the network is open to either BELL or TELUS if they chose to pay the money to set up their network accordingly.

so, put aside your hatred of Rogers for a moment to agree, that in this case they are not monopolizing the GSM network, its just that neither Bell or Telus have thrown in their CDMA towels yet and are ready to drop the millions it costs (and would cost any company) to convert to the GSM network. and to prove my point, Telus is in deep consideration as to whether to move to the GSM network or to hold out for the "next" big network conversion.

and if Telus wants to go to GSM, then theres nothing Rogers can do to stop them.

so - no MONOPOLY.


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## Visnaut (Jul 22, 2004)

depmode101 said:


> so there is no MONOPOLY on GSM coverage in Canada.
> if ROGERS was the only company that COULD offer GSM, then yes, there would be a Monopoly - but the network is open to either BELL or TELUS if they chose to pay the money to set up their network accordingly.


Firstly, you seem to misunderstand the term monopoly. Monopoly is defined as a persistent market situation where there is only one provider of a product or service. In this case, GSM cellphone coverage. So Rogers is a monopoly any way you want to cut it. They became so when they purchased Fido.

Perhaps you meant monopoly in the vernacular sense of an _abusive_ monopoly. In that context, if it were easy to prove, we'd have litigation against them already.

The point I assume you're trying to make is that Rogers is not using their market dominance to forcibly keep Bell or Telus from going GSM. That's true, they're not. But to say that they're not a monopoly because the possibility exists for others to compete in the same space is an exercise in wishful thinking.

By the same line of logic, Microsoft is not a monopoly because other companies are free to create competing products with the same features and fully compatible with theirs.

Well, that's true, they can. But just in the same way that such products would be immensely and prohibitively expensive to create, and offer potentially very little return on the initial investment (since you also need to convince customers to change allegiances), so too would a switch to GSM for one of the major CDMA carriers in our country.

So while there is no active effort to prevent competition, there is a passive one in that the cost to compete is an effective deterrent.


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## zlinger (Aug 28, 2007)

Adrian. said:


> If Rogers wont do it, then AT&T will. They have been sitting in a monopolized market for too long. They are going to get hit hard when the airwaves are opened up.
> 
> When the the bandwidth auction goes up this spring is the only time we will know. I highly doubt Rogers is going to get that contract. I think AT&T is going to come in and Apple is going to work through them.
> 
> ...


Please sign me up with AT&T, my contract with Roger$ ends this August. The Canadian cell market sucks arse. Bring on $20 unlimited data, nation-wide calling, carry over unused minutes to Canada.


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

" ... Please sign me up with AT&T ..."

All you need is a US address (which you can get at a UPS store, amongst other places) and the right roaming/long distance package so that your free minutes cover the long distance/roaming in Canada.

People here (out west) jump across the border to sign up with US carriers all the time, and truckers have been doing it for a decade at least. Go for it.

On a barely related note, SaskTel and MBTel have agreements with the Montana and North Dakota carriers so that you might be actually getting your service from a tower in the other country when you're near the border but it's still considered a local call or a call on your own carrier's network.


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## MACinist (Nov 17, 2003)

Adrian. said:


> If Rogers wont do it, then AT&T will. They have been sitting in a monopolized market for too long. They are going to get hit hard when the airwaves are opened up.
> 
> When the the bandwidth auction goes up this spring is the only time we will know. I highly doubt Rogers is going to get that contract. I think AT&T is going to come in and Apple is going to work through them.
> 
> ...


Mmmmm..... you have just proved my original point. A cell phone company will not spend billions to enter a market based on consumer demand in a small market for one cell phone. IF what you predict comes true, entry into the Canadian marketplace is a result of many other factors and potential opportunities which results in competition that will eventually benefit the consumer.

If you are going to play the demand angle in this argument, it is better to say that Canadians demand more options as far as cell phone companies, GSM carriers and service rates - this is what entices a company to invest/risk money into a market - not one cell phone.


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## 5andman (Oct 15, 2006)

Rogers made a 44% increase in the 4th quarter.

reportonbusiness.com: Subscriptions slow, but Rogers makes up ground on data fees

Rogers doesn't need the iphone.


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## MacGYVER (Apr 15, 2005)

Well what ever company decides to take the plunge will be a wealthy one in the end as the iPhone will only develop over time unlike products from RIM. Lets face it, RIM wouldn't be getting into Touch screen technology for their next line up of products, had it not been for Apple and the push on the iPhone. If Rogers wants a piece of the pie, they either grab it now, or kiss it good bye for ever if in fact another competitor takes the Apple plunge.

My fear is that we here in Canada will become a 3rd world country with regards to technology if we don't start to embrace what is going on in the U.S. and over in Asia and hell even in Europe. Rogers and RIM are not the leaders out there in technology that is advancing forward at a fast pace with regards to devices like a "smartphone". Apple likes to advance technology and likes to embrace new things and takes risks good or bad. This is a company that should be watched by others like Rogers here in Canada. I'm not saying that Rogers is not paying attention here to Apple, but I don't think they see where Apple is going with this iPhone device for the future and that is what will hurt Rogers in the long term and short term.

Personally it is frustrating to see technology advance and exist, but because we here in Canada are so closed minded to the rest of the world, we as users are not able to take advantage of a lot of things. Or one can't find the beginning an end of the red tape?


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## Firefox (Dec 29, 2007)

MacGYVER said:


> I've been thinking and watching the news lately with regards to Rogers and Research In Motion (RIM). RIM has just made the headlines again with an increase in sales from their Blackberry line and Rogers being the biggest carrier of RIM devices also is racking in the cash from sales of RIM devices. Rogers also makes a killing on charging high prices for their packages with regards to Blackberry users.
> 
> RIM is like the Microsoft to the North in Canada in bed with Rogers. There is no way Apple has a fighting chance against RIM if Rogers is making so much money off of each Blackberry sold and package sold in Canada.
> 
> ...


Ummm... RIM has only 2 consumer phones and that is the Blackberry Curve and the Blackberry Pearl. RIM is a PDA device while the Apple iPhone is a mobile media solution. They are 2 completely different devices. Rogers and RIM do not have a marriage as Bell and Telus also carry a wide selection of Blackberries.

There are 3 reasons as to why Rogers has taken so long to bring the iPhone to Canada and only 2 reasons are truely evident.

1)the iPhone trademark in Canada. This is no longer an issue so no point of talking about it.
2)Rogers is insistant on pushing 3G technology, therefore they want a 3G iPhone NOW! Apple is still undecided about the 3G chipset they want to use as they are truly concerned about battery life.
3)Apple wants Rogers to have AT&T price points. As in $399 (buy out) + plans starting at $60/mth (for 450min day [with roll over], EW unlimited, Unlimited visual voice-mail, 200 txt, unlimited data), but Rogers and the whore of a company they are, refuse to comply, so Apple is basically telling them to shove it.

Rogers really has until around fall of '08 to get the phone as Telus will be switching to their own towers and join in the GSM community, and its pretty evident that if Rogers doesn't have the phone by then, Telus will do anything Apple says as hundreds of thousands of people in Canada want the iPhone, and if Telus carries it, they will most likely have enough subscriptions to pay for the cost of updating towers to GSM.

Wait until Apple announces the iPhone V2 (3G), as for the next quarter Rogers will only introducing 2 new 3G phones, one is an LG and the other a Samsung.


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

MacGYVER said:


> My fear is that we here in Canada will become a 3rd world country with regards to technology if we don't start to embrace what is going on in the U.S. and over in Asia and hell even in Europe.



I just find that humorous because most underdeveloped countries get cell phones way before we do. Go to South America. They have phones there that won't be here for another ten years. They got the Asian hook ups I suppose. Or the Middle East. People in Lebanon and Israel/Palestine had Razrs way before we had that trend storm in.

Thats all concerning that.


As I have said numerous times in May AT&T will buy airtime and move in and Apple will go directly through them. Rogers has already lost the contract. Cheers!


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