# "The Walking Dead" Thread (untied and roaming free)



## iLabmAn

I've been a fan since watching my first episode a few weeks back. Riveting, well acted and staged. This season dragged on (my sentiments echoed throughout the net), but that last few minutes of Season 2.0 mid-season's finale made up for it.

Are you a fan? What have you enjoyed about this show? That first season had me on the edge of my seat the whole time and never let go. Been a long time since a show did that to me.:clap:


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## Macfury

I enjoy the fact that the elements of the program are basic zombie--no fancy twists. I did not enjoy the stuff in the CDC lab very much, but feel this season has picked up nicely. Best bits--the early episode where they have to cover themselves with guts to sneak past the dead--pure tension. Also the more recent episode where they're hiding under cars to escape a crowd of walkers.

Have followed the comic series as well, but the TV series is far superior.


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## CubaMark

Watching the mid-season finale in a few minutes - I'll be back to chat. I will say that I agree with MF on the CNC episode. There was a great deal of online chatter about the 2nd season being in for major suckitude because of a change in producer and the revelation that so much time would be spent on Herschel's farm... but it's turned out to be pretty darn good. Glad I haven't read the comics, so I can't be miffed about how the small-screen adaptation is going...


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## chasMac

Wicked ending. The actress playing Sophia did it to perfection. Series as a whole a bit 'soapish'. Pisses me off to no end that they will not use the term 'zombies'. 'Walkers' - dumb, dumb, dumb...


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## Adrian.

Great show. I am really enjoying the plot development this season over pure fear and gore of the first.


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## CubaMark

Man, they really ratcheted it up toward the end there, hey? Nice... very nice. Wonder where they go from here.... quite a bit of drama to recover from in that episode...

IIRC, the term "zombies" isn't used because this is supposed to be a reality in which that genre of filmmaking hadn't occurred.


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## chasMac

CubaMark said:


> IIRC, the term "zombies" isn't used because this is supposed to be a reality in which that genre of filmmaking hadn't occurred.


Kind of think that as the characters are speaking English, and the common term for the dead re-animated in this language is 'zombie', it ought to be used. Be like calling pooches 'fourleggers' in a flick about dogs.


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## G-Mo

chasMac said:


> Kind of think that as the characters are speaking English, and the common term for the dead re-animated in this language is 'zombie', it ought to be used. Be like calling pooches 'fourleggers' in a flick about dogs.


Zombie is a Creole word that wouldn't be part of our language had it not been appropriated for "horror" literature and film in the late 20s/early 30s... The show occurs in a world where this never happened... How is it any more far fetched than, say, a world where a radioactive spider bite can transform a high-school geek into a web headed super hero??


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## chasMac

G-Mo said:


> Zombie is a Creole word that wouldn't be part of our language had it not been appropriated for "horror" literature and film in the late 20s/early 30s... The show occurs in a world where this never happened... How is it any more far fetched than, say, a world where a radioactive spider bite can transform a high-school geek into a web headed super hero??


Half the words in the English language have been appropriated from another language; what is your point? Like I said, zombie is what we use to describe the walking dead. I suspect the author uses the term 'walker' to imbue his works with a sense of seriousness, and gravitas. 'Zombie' is a term reserved for bad horror scribes and penny-dreadfuls.


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## iLabmAn

Any theories on how things came to be in this reality? The whole thing involving a patient waking up in a hospital and venturing outdoors to witness all hell breaking loose is something we've seen before in other films. However, what are your thoughts about why a rampant zombie apocalypse? Viral? I'm glad that there has not been talk about this yet. Better to leave things to the imagination and deal with the trauma of having to cope in this new landscape.

Best terrifying moment for me: the attack on the camp and Amy getting bitten, Otis bent left for zombie snack. I think the term "Otis'ed" has been used to describe such an occurrence.


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## CubaMark

Lots of great moments... and don't forget to check out the webisodes that add some depth. I had no idea who the bicycle girl was...


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## Macfury

iLabmAn said:


> However, what are your thoughts about why a rampant zombie apocalypse? Viral? I'm glad that there has not been talk about this yet. Better to leave things to the imagination and deal with the trauma of having to cope in this new landscape.


I appreciated one thing about George Romero's trilogy of original _Dead_ films--no hope of finding out what causes someone to become a zombie. It is what it is... I hope they maintain that approach in the TV series.


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## fjnmusic

When the zombie they were pulling out of the well ripped in two. That was pretty unforgettable.


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## cap10subtext

This whole series has been unbelievable. I just watch it with my jaw on the floor. So much happens in every episode they feel like they are two hours long.

Just love it.


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## MazterCBlazter

.


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## MazterCBlazter

.


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## iLabmAn

*Season 2 has started up again!*

So, what say you about this half of Season 2? Better than the first half as I found the Sophia arc a little tedious, and, well, boring. I found the finale predictable.

Was surprised about the dispatch of one of the main characters Sunday. Quite a shocker - but again, predictable.


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## John Clay

iLabmAn said:


> So, what say you about this half of Season 2? Better than the first half as I found the Sophia arc a little tedious, and, well, boring. I found the finale predictable.
> 
> Was surprised about the dispatch of one of the main characters Sunday a shocker - but again, predictable.


Yeah, that was unfortunate - he was a fun character. Loved the image of him sitting on the camper with a rifle and an umbrella.


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## Macfury

iLabmAn said:


> Was surprised about the dispatch of one of the main characters Sunday a shocker - but again, predictable.


Frankly, Dale's wide-eyed mewling was getting a little tedious. Good riddance, pal!

I appreciate the more down-to-earth tone of these episodes. Simple survival stories.

Also, with the exception of the infighting in last week's episode, a lot of the fake dramatic tension has been excised from this season. The previous had too many scenes of survivors pushing guns into each other's faces.


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## John Clay

Macfury said:


> Frankly, Dale's wide-eyed mewling was getting a little tedious. Good riddance, pal!
> 
> I appreciate the more down-to-earth tone of these episodes. Simple survival stories.
> 
> Also, with the exception of the infighting in last week's episode, a lot of the fake dramatic tension has been excised from this season. The previous had too many scenes of survivors pushing guns into each other's faces.


Agreed - he was getting a bit annoying. He was also the group's moral compass - more so than Rick for sure. Rick is always prepared to do what he thinks he must - Dale seemed to think things through a bit more.


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## Macfury

John Clay said:


> Agreed - he was getting a bit annoying. He was also the group's moral compass - more so than Rick for sure. Rick is always prepared to do what he thinks he must - Dale seemed to think things through a bit more.


I found most of his arguments pretty feeble yesterday. The argument that "We have lost our humanity" only holds water if you have a chance to survive and are not risking everyone's life. The fact that this band of survivors doesn't go out to pillage other camps makes them morally superior already.


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## John Clay

Macfury said:


> I found most of his arguments pretty feeble yesterday. The argument that "We have lost our humanity" only holds water if you have a chance to survive and are not risking everyone's life. The fact that this band of survivors doesn't go out to pillage other camps makes them morally superior already.


Oh, for sure. They're far above everyone else they've encountered so far. But that's a damn low bar.

We'll see their true colours depending on how they deal with the kid. I'm betting they'll give him a chance to prove himself...but Shane will off him in the woods.


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## Macfury

Shane is the Dr. Zachary Smith of this series. 

The best argument so far for sparing the kid: If you've let Shane live this long, then give the kid a chance!


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## John Clay

Macfury said:


> Shane is the Dr. Zachary Smith of this series.
> 
> The best argument so far for sparing the kid: If you've let Shane live this long, then give the kid a chance!


:lmao:


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## CubaMark

I didn't see that coming - I figured he'd encounter a walker, but not that he'd get chomped. I was half expecting Carl to have a zombie scratch with repercussions. From the rumours online, I was expecting Shane to eat dirt tonight...

Only two episodes left, though...  But, good news, Season Three is already greenlighted.

I am getting pretty tired of the farm, though...

Oh - and last week's episode? Did anyone else clue in to Rick's foreboding feeling that zombiefication doesn't necessarily come just from a bite?


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## ehMax

Just finished Season 1 of Walking Dead. Unfortunately, one of the trends on Twitter last night gave me a spoiler for the 2nd season. 

I watched Season 1 on Netflix... Avoiding other posts in this thread until I catch up. 

I'm back to watching my other favourite show right now, which is Dexter. On Season 4 of that right now. 

So much good TV to watch.


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## chasMac

1. I find the series' writers are playing a little fast & loose with characters' expected behaviours in the name of providing drama. Primarily I take issue with Carl's solo roaming. I mean most parent's would keep their child on a shorter leash during non-zombie apocalypses. Wanders alone into barn where a prisoner is kept, wanders alone to come upon a zombie within the compound (why did he not tell anyone of this? surely one the first lessons Rick would have impressed upon the young lad would be to report any zombie sightings), wander alone at night to witness his father in the process of executing someone. This is further aggravating because Carl's parents are depicted as being paragons of the protective sort, trying to shield from him as best they can the brutality of life as it is now. Anyways...

2. Dale was getting annoying, had it coming. Shane I find to possess the most admirable of characters, tough times call for tough choices: killing the prisoner is the right choice.

3. Was it revealed what the scientist whispered to Rick at the end of season 1? I might have missed it. If not, perhaps it is tied into the camera's lingering over Rick's expression at the sight of seemingly un-bitten zombies.


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## Macfury

I followed the comic book series for a bit as well and found that the admiration for Rick's leadership seemed to require overlooking some of his worst decisions. 

The notion of "unbitten zombies" never struck me as particularly shocking. If anyone who dies becomes a zombie, bitten or not, how is that worse? I also notice that in all of these zombie shows and movies, people seem willing to sock zombies right in the mouth. Given those sharp rows of rotting teeth and the black ichor that drips from their jaws, I'd be worried about infection.


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## chasMac

Rick had a lot of infected blood-spatter around his eyes, that'd make me worried. Perhaps up until this point they believe infection is only transmitted through saliva? Would be ridiculously naive - people would take greater precautions when confronted with SARS than undead infection, if they behaved as this ensemble.


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## Macfury

chasMac said:


> Rick had a lot of infected blood-spatter around his eyes, that'd make me worried. Perhaps up until this point they believe infection is only transmitted through saliva? Would be ridiculously naive - people would take greater precautions when confronted with SARS than undead infection, if they behaved as this ensemble.


In the episode prior to this, When Shane was trapped on the bus, he repeatedly cut his hand and applied blood on the same spot where a ghoul had previously suckled. Again, even if you're not worried about getting Living Dead Virus, at least make sure your cut doesn't go septic.


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## iLabmAn

Some commentary as to how the upcoming change in season may play out well for our band of survivors: what will the cold do to these mindless zombies in search for their next bloodied crunch? I found it interesting that, in almost every episode, the survivors had to endure sunny skies and warm weather as they battled the walker hordes (save the well orchestrated camp attack scene in Season One). Will the zombies all freeze "to death" - but will they thaw out?

Goatie zombie man who eviscerated Dale and the poor cow was definitely gruesome. Fabulous make-up and design work!


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## MBD

I love the Walking Dead. I especially love following on Twitter at the same time as the episodes are on because it's nice to see some of the wise remarks & have others to say similar wise remarks to. I read all the comic books & they are much darker. It's interesting to see the plot differences between the series & the comics which differs quite a bit this season.


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## Macfury

The comics are, of course, years ahead of the series. Shane is a goner already in comicville. I much prefer the show.

I recall a comic series called _The Goon_ in which the title character mows down frozen zombie icicles, rooted to the spot by winter.


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## Macfury

Shane dead, too? Seems all the well-defined characters are being axed for budgetary reasons. Bad move.

And man, Carl just keeps a wandering into everything--day or night.


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## iLabmAn

Macfury said:


> Shane dead, too? Seems all the well-defined characters are being axed for budgetary reasons. Bad move.
> 
> And man, Carl just keeps a wandering into everything--day or night.


I thought this episode played out brilliantly and had some amazing set shots (e.g., moonlit scene with Shane and Rick during their stand off). I figured that these two would have their moment eventually in this season, but having Shane done in like that was almost poetic in nature.

And what's with Carl dropping into those scenes so randomly? This Sunday's season finale looks thrilling. Too bad we have to wait so bloody long for the next seasons to commence. I remember when shows started in the early Fall and ended sometime in June.

Oh well.


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## CubaMark

Carl needs to be bitten. Soon. Little critter is getting on my nerves. As a plot device, he sucks - wandering all over hell and creation... No way Lori should have let him out of the house that night - I mean, they were all told to go in and lock the doors, right? 

Shane... I had seen in the rumour sites that he would likely be coming back as a walker, but I expected him to die, and come back_ in a bit_, not right away. In any event, yes, a very poetic, almost beautiful confrontation on that hilltop... nicely shot.

Looking forward to the finale next weekend... though a bit sad, as I'd love to jump right into Season Three immediately.... :-(


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## Macfury

That "Governor" stuff was the weakest part of the comic series. Hope they make something of it on TV.


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## CubaMark

Finally. Bye-bye, Hershel's farm. Hello, mean & nasty world o' zombies...

I actually thought Andrea was going to bite it... er, I mean, be bitten...


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## Macfury

Pretty rousing finale. Its funny that I couldn't tell who was being bitten toward the end. I never fully got my head around how many people were living in the farmhouse.


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## chrisburke

Man.. As good a season finale it was.. I hate finales.. Because it means you gotta wait until the next season.. When does the next season start anyway??

They certainly did a good job of making me want to watch the next episode.. The crazy ninja, then the prison.. Which clearly is going to end up a mess.. But none the less, it'll be awesome!!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## fjnmusic

How about this oxymoron: mid-season finale, or winter finale.


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## CubaMark

chrisburke said:


> Man.. As good a season finale it was.. I hate finales.. Because it means you gotta wait until the next season.. When does the next season start anyway??



October :-(

.


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## iLabmAn

fjnmusic said:


> How about this oxymoron: mid-season finale, or winter finale.


Yeah. That bites (sorry). Hard to stomach that we have to wait 6-7 months for the next season. That makes zombies cry. 

Now, what a riveting episode. Here are my thoughts:

1. Wow. Those walkers travelled a long way to the farm. I think it was the same horde that met up with Rick in the city, as it looked like several were still munching on horse. How the walkers are attracted to sound, and that they travel in packs was a good reminder of how mindless of an eating machine they've become.

2. Pacing of the episode was awesome and reminiscent of season one. Walkers pouring out of the forest and making their way to the farm in the dark added to the tension. Nail-biter for sure in several instances. You definitely felt the panic, hysteria and genuine sense of helplessness as the survivors tried to make their way off the farm. The scene where Herschel looks back on his farm was touching.:clap:

3. Admit it: we all waiting for a human to get eaten alive. It's gruesome, horrific, but somehow makes for great entertainment eek. Yet, this episode made the deaths of two tertiary characters somewhat difficult to watch (and listen to). You could clearly hear their screams well into being gorged upon by walkers. Nasty.

4. The "reveal". Again, well played and perfectly timed IMAO. So what if Rick didn't let his faith(less) followers know earlier on - his reasons were explained in his speech at the end of the episode.

There's more, but I am going to watch the show again. Tremendous!

Questions: 

- where was the helicopter going? Who was in the copter?
- why is Lori such a (&#$? Her character waffles from one extreme to another I find. First she is the proverbial Jezebel who convinces Rick that Shane is a danger. His speech in this episode was littered with aspects of Lori's that shows that Rick agreed with her conclusions of Shane. She wants to protect her son. I get it, but how can she continue to think she can maintain the bubble of boy-scoutish protection she has erected around Carl when all hell is clearly breaking loose? I think she may the next to die.
- I assume that's Michonne who rescues Andrea? Were there amputated walkers chained to Michonne? Interesting how they were acting around her. Interesting.
- now that they know they are all infected, will it make it a difference?

...now I get why they call this show "The Walking Dead" and why the title credits are ordered in that fashion: "The Dead Walking".


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## CubaMark

Lori: Please, somebody, feed her to the walkers. What a useless character. First the Lady MacBeth speech to Rick in the tent all but saying "you must kill Shane" and now this rejection of him for doing precisely that... and in a case of justified killing. Her ability to care for her son - and by care for, I mean simply keep an eye on - is severely lacking.

The fact that they're all infected changes nothing. All they need to do is ensure that when someone dies, they get a pick through the brain to stay dead.

However.... the ramifications on Lori's unborn child are enormous. That's probably the only decent reason to keep her character around...


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## iLabmAn

CubaMark said:


> Lori: Please, somebody, feed her to the walkers. What a useless character. First the Lady MacBeth speech to Rick in the tent all but saying "you must kill Shane" and now this rejection of him for doing precisely that... and in a case of justified killing. Her ability to care for her son - and by care for, I mean simply keep an eye on - is severely lacking.
> 
> The fact that they're all infected changes nothing. All they need to do is ensure that when someone dies, they get a pick through the brain to stay dead.
> 
> However.... the ramifications on Lori's unborn child are enormous. That's probably the only decent reason to keep her character around...


Hmmmm....never thought of the unborn baby thing. Perhaps it will be immune to the virus that will eventually destroy humanity. That baby will grow up to become the progenitor of a future race of humans who, after finding her corpse 150, 000 years in the future, will look back and call the baby "Mitochondrial Eve" or something like that which...

...wait.

That's been done before...

'Battlestar Galactica' Series Finale: Love It or Hate It?

...but will it happen AGAIN?


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## fjnmusic

I predict zombies witha conscience will come next, followed shortly by a zombie's Bill of Rights under the law. Also, there could be zombies put to work for the civil service like they do in Shaun of the Dead.


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## iLabmAn

fjnmusic said:


> I predict zombies witha conscience will come next, followed shortly by a zombie's Bill of Rights under the law. Also, there could be zombies put to work for the civil service like they do in Shaun of the Dead.



...a show that will end well beyond where it SHOULD have ended with us all scratching our heads saying WTF!?

OR....

...a show that ends well, with a shorter than average season (4-5 years. No more!) and leaving us talking about it for years (like Space: Above and Beyond. Love that show).


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## chrisburke

I don't know who the crazy ninja was, but it was freaking awesome, I know that!!!

As for the unborn baby.. I'm think it won't be immune.. It's in loris blood, so it's in the babies (anatomy people).. As for the outcome.. I don't know.. Born a walker maybe??


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## i-rui

CubaMark said:


> Lori: Please, somebody, feed her to the walkers. What a useless character. First the Lady MacBeth speech to Rick in the tent all but saying "you must kill Shane" and now this rejection of him for doing precisely that... and in a case of justified killing. Her ability to care for her son - and by care for, I mean simply keep an eye on - is severely lacking.
> 
> The fact that they're all infected changes nothing. All they need to do is ensure that when someone dies, they get a pick through the brain to stay dead.


i also hate Lori. If i was Rick and she was my wife i would've stayed in a coma XX)

but i do think it was incredibly irresponsible of Rick to not tell them they were all infected. what if he was to die? then none of them would know. and of course that could lead to serious problems in the future.


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## Macfury

i-rui said:


> ...but i do think it was incredibly irresponsible of Rick to not tell them they were all infected. what if he was to die? then none of them would know. and of course that could lead to serious problems in the future.


Agreed. It wasn't as if though telling people about it would have done a lick of harm, and the benefits of sleeping alone would have been well understood. 



> Lori: Please, somebody, feed her to the walkers. What a useless character. First the Lady MacBeth speech to Rick in the tent all but saying "you must kill Shane" and now this rejection of him for doing precisely that... and in a case of justified killing. Her ability to care for her son - and by care for, I mean simply keep an eye on - is severely lacking.


Perhaps she was angry because she believed that Rick had followed her instructions and she was responsible.


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## iLabmAn

Macfury said:


> Agreed. It wasn't as if though telling people about it would have done a lick of harm, and the benefits of sleeping alone would have been well understood.
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps she was angry because she believed that Rick had followed her instructions and she was responsible.



...also, it's the first time where Lori found out about the infection. That's another bit of information that you would think even Rick would have let her know ahead of time. She is feeling like an outsider now.

BTW, GREAT shot of the prison eh? I can't wait until the Fall!


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## fjnmusic

iLabmAn said:


> ...a show that will end well beyond where it SHOULD have ended with us all scratching our heads saying WTF!?
> 
> OR....
> 
> ...a show that ends well, with a shorter than average season (4-5 years. No more!) and leaving us talking about it for years (like Space: Above and Beyond. Love that show).


I'm sorry…Space what?


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> I'm sorry…Space what?


The guy with the thing and the spaceship and the space guns...


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> The guy with the thing and the spaceship and the space guns...


Oh that. For a second I thought you were talking about Buck Rogers with Gil Gerard.


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## iLabmAn

fjnmusic said:


> I'm sorry…Space what?


Space: Above and Beyond - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Oh that. For a second I thought you were talking about Buck Rogers with Gil Gerard.


Bee-dee, bee-dee, bee-dee!


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## i-rui




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## chrisburke

Have you seen this yet?? 

Coming to iOS...

http://www.intomobile.com/2012/03/21/telltale-games-walking-dead-coming-ios-late-april/


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## iLabmAn

chrisburke said:


> Have you seen this yet??
> 
> Coming to iOS...
> 
> Telltale Games' The Walking Dead coming to iOS in late April



Awesome. Thanks!


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## fjnmusic

iLabmAn said:


> Space: Above and Beyond - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


You know that doesn't prove anything. Anyone can contribute to Wikipedia.


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## CubaMark

Less than a month until Season 3 kicks off.... *October 14th*

Here's a Season 3 Trailer and new character profiles to whet your appetite...


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## Macfury

I'm not to keen on that ******* brother returning to the series.


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> I'm not to keen on that ******* brother returning to the series.


Aw, man. We need to see Merle again, lest it all turn into a Ricktatorship.


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## Macfury

Too many characters pulling guns on each others' faces. Maybe Merle has something more interesting up his torn-off hillbilly sleeve.


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## wonderings

I am a big fan of the show, just finished season 2 a few weeks back. I personally loved season 2 more then 1. Looking forward to season 3, but really did not like the glimpse of the sword carrying person with the 2 zombies on a leash. I like it nice and simple, run from zombies, or shoot them in the head, no training, controlling or anything like that.


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## Macfury

wonderings said:


> I am a big fan of the show, just finished season 2 a few weeks back. I personally loved season 2 more then 1. Looking forward to season 3, but really did not like the glimpse of the sword carrying person with the 2 zombies on a leash. I like it nice and simple, run from zombies, or shoot them in the head, no training, controlling or anything like that.


I agree. I read through the comic series and that character transforms the narrative into a superhero tale. I prefer plain old humans, thanks.


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## wonderings

Macfury said:


> I agree. I read through the comic series and that character transforms the narrative into a superhero tale. I prefer plain old humans, thanks.


Exactly. I love the post apocalyptic stories, mans survival when the world as we know it changes. Walking dead works great for that, just has zombies. I would enjoy the story of man surviving without the zombies even more if as well done as walking dead.

I was expecting good things from Revolution, but was big time disappointed, just didnt feel believable to me, and by that I dont mean how the power went out, just how people were surviving. Everyone looked rather clean.


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## Macfury

wonderings said:


> I was expecting good things from Revolution, but was big time disappointed, just didnt feel believable to me, and by that I dont mean how the power went out, just how people were surviving. Everyone looked rather clean.


Agreed. The sets look really well dressed and tended. A hairdresser's version of desolation.

Not that I would highly recommend it (really flawed story), but I kind of enjoyed the atmosphere of:

Vanishing on 7th Street (2010) - IMDb

About a world without light.


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## wonderings

Macfury said:


> Agreed. The sets look really well dressed and tended. A hairdresser's version of desolation.
> 
> Not that I would highly recommend it (really flawed story), but I kind of enjoyed the atmosphere of:
> 
> Vanishing on 7th Street (2010) - IMDb
> 
> About a world without light.


I just about burst out laughing in Revolution when the main character stumbled across the most clean cut, well groomed guy I have ever seen by a fire near a stream with cloths that look like they had just come out of a dryer. Almost turned it off at that point.

I did see the Vanishing on 7th Street, it was interesting and I did enjoy it, but not something I would really go back and watch again. It kind of reminded me of an old radio drama, cant remember the show, but it was similar, there was something in that darkness, or the darkness itself after some people.


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## Macfury

I do enjoy the depopulated world genre though. I get a hankering for it and even went back to the crappy TV Movie, _The Langoliers_ recently.

Saw this one a few weeks back:

Creation of the Damned (1974) - IMDb

but pretty much had everyone stuck in a bomb shelter,


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## Joker Eh

Great season 3 premiere. Riot Gear Zombies!!! LMAO
I like the idea of chopping off someone's leg to stop the infection. But I would keep him in a cell to see what happens.


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## fjnmusic

Joker Eh said:


> Great season 3 premiere. Riot Gear Zombies!!! LMAO
> I like the idea of chopping off someone's leg to stop the infection. But I would keep him in a cell to see what happens.


Zombaby! What if the fetus dies and then attacks its mother? What if the mother dies in childbirth? These are good questions.


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## CubaMark

Total WIN. Great premiere! And Lori didn't suck in this episode  Poor Herschel....


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Zombaby! What if the fetus dies and then attacks its mother? What if the mother dies in childbirth? These are good questions.


These questions have all been answered before--and the answers are not pretty.



CubaMark said:


> Total WIN. Great premiere! And Lori didn't suck in this episode  Poor Herschel....


It's because she didn't appear much.


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## JCCanuck

Great opening show! I say it again and again, love the sound effects of dismembering, piercing, shooting etc. zombies. Always turn up the volume for the sound. "Sploorch!"! LOL!


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## Macfury

The Governor is a bore.


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> The Governor is a bore.


Maybe on the surface, but his little aquarium setup is pretty cool.


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## fjnmusic

Boy, now that was intense!


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Boy, now that was intense!


The prison stuff, yes!

The governor? Short of the amusing golf bit, not so much.


----------



## Joker Eh

fjnmusic said:


> Boy, now that was intense!





Macfury said:


> The prison stuff, yes!
> 
> The governor? Short of the amusing golf bit, not so much.


Wow what an episode and a shocker. But maybe Carl didn't shoot Lori? My PVR cut off the last few seconds as usual as Rick was laying on the ground crying. I had totally forgot about that inmate who had escaped Ricks slaughter.

To me get on with the story of the governor its too slow.


----------



## CubaMark

Nicely cranked-up episode, that... a few _tender moments with Merle_  ... buy-bye, useless Lori!  Pretty sure Carl did the deed, but not even AMC is going to show a kid shooting his momma in the head for drama. New dynamic with the group's felonious additions... but I gotta say, T-Dog did not deserve his fate... a real shame... oh, and the "sex tower" - nice touch


----------



## Macfury

T-Dog was virtually invisible for episodes at a time--he was marked for death!


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> T-Dog was virtually invisible for episodes at a time--he was marked for death!


No, he was marked for death because after being so invisible for so long, he suddenly had more than ten words of dialogue.


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> No, he was marked for death because after being so invisible for so long, he suddenly had more than ten words of dialogue.


Exactly! The last time he said anything substantial was back at the farm when that walker broke in half and poisoned the well.


----------



## CubaMark

Man-o-man. WD is going to some dark places.... :-o


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> Man-o-man. WD is going to some dark places.... :-o


He-man Gladiators with Zombies on chains. How cool is that? I'm sure glad they have The Talking Dead to help decompress after each episode. That T-Dog bust was pretty freaky realistic.


----------



## Joker Eh

I hate that the PVR cuts it right off at the end and I miss the last few seconds.

Does AMC have a HD channel on Rogers can't see to find it on the box?


----------



## CubaMark

*Zombies, Twitter, And Braaiiins!: The Neuroscience of The Walking Dead
*


> In a test room located at New York’s City College, researchers strapped special EEG readers to the heads of volunteers while they watched AMC’s television show The Walking Dead. One of cable television’s most popular programs, The Walking Dead is filled with flesh-eating zombies, extreme violence, and bloody deaths. Scientists from the Harmony Institute, an organization with ties to the entertainment industry, were trying to see what goes through viewer’s brains when they watch a television show, and to compare the results to what’s discussed on social media sites.





> For the most part, the report found, scenes that were heavily tweeted were also accompanied by heavy neural responses. The converse, however, is not true. Many segments in the show that sent neurons firing barely registered on Twitter. One emotionally resonant scene, when the show’s protagonist Rick woke up from a coma to find out his family has disappeared, was the subject of sparse Twitter comments but caused intense brain activity.


(FastCompany)


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> *Zombies, Twitter, And Braaiiins!: The Neuroscience of The Walking Dead
> *
> 
> 
> (FastCompany)


"One emotionally resonant scene, when the show’s protagonist Rick woke up from a coma to find out his family has disappeared, was the subject of sparse Twitter comments but caused intense brain activity."

Could be that since it was the first episode, there wasn't a lot of twittering going on yet. More like, what the F did I just see?


----------



## Macfury

I finally sat through the _Walking Dead_ webisodes. Fairly enjoyable, with the one set in the storage locker the better of the two.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> I finally sat through the _Walking Dead_ webisodes. Fairly enjoyable, with the one set in the storage locker the better of the two.


Enjoyed that one too. With the guy who used to be the annoying cop on Nash Bridges.


----------



## fjnmusic

Lots of changes this season. So how do all y'all feel about the Governor and Andrea getting together? And how's about the return of our old buddy Merle?


----------



## Macfury

Andrea is such a dope, that there's really not much drama in the situation!


----------



## Joker Eh

Macfury said:


> Andrea is such a dope, that there's really not much drama in the situation!


I am tired of her, so predictable. Why not play more of the gov own demons, show more of what he is hiding.

Rick use *69! :lmao:

Merle, type of character that is another that is so predictable.

Daryl and Carol is either he thinking she as a mother figure or a romantic partner. Not sure there.

Carl is going to become one badass. I loved where he one uped Daryl and told him he actually killed his mom because she hadn't turned yet. Take that!


----------



## Macfury

I will be glad to see the Governor phase of the show pass. There's enough happening at the prison without adding new levels of engineered conflict.


----------



## CubaMark

The moment that struck me funny in last night's episode was Michonne showing up... with the baby formula  

Andrea's character does seem to be poorly written... perhaps they overplayed her "disgust" at the staged fight two episodes ago, because her turnaround was a wee bit too easy, as was her abandonment of Michonne, given that they'd had each others' backs for almost a year, alone.

The Merle/Darryl reunion will be interesting... but not quite so interesting as the Merle/Rick confrontation that is coming. 

The Governer, so far, is entirely less impressive than I'd hoped he'd become...


----------



## Macfury

Some good moments in this episode, but I find hostage taking and torture pretty dreary subjects. Again, anything to do with the Governor and stupid Andrea--who is becoming a bigger clod episode by episode--grinds things to a halt. I'm looking forward to next episode just because it appears the Governor takes it on the chin.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Some good moments in this episode, but I find hostage taking and torture pretty dreary subjects. Again, anything to do with the Governor and stupid Andrea--who is becoming a bigger clod episode by episode--grinds things to a halt. I'm looking forward to next episode just because it appears the Governor takes it on the chin.


She did look alright in her tidy whiteys though. beejacon


----------



## Rps

I was reading this thread and was getting confused until I realised this wasn't about Calgary in the Grey Cup......


----------



## ehMax

Macfury said:


> Some good moments in this episode, but I find hostage taking and torture pretty dreary subjects. Again, anything to do with the Governor and stupid Andrea--who is becoming a bigger clod episode by episode--grinds things to a halt. I'm looking forward to next episode just because it appears the Governor takes it on the chin.


Agreed. This season is grinding to a halt IMO. I'm not a fan of the whole little town and Governor thing, the hostage taking, the "big brother" coming back. 

I loved the first 2 seasons when they were constantly on the move, battling "herds" of walkers and having to quickly establish themselves in new locations. 

This whole being settled in and soap opera with the little village isn't my cup of tea. (Though I'm still happy to watch how it will unfold)

I wish they were in the prison, and could see from a couple miles away, a big "Super heard" of walkers coming, and they had to fortify the prison. They find a room with a HUGE stock-pile of ammo, and a few extra folks to help out, and then they have a super prison/zombie attack fight.


----------



## ehMax

CubaMark said:


> The moment that struck me funny in last night's episode was Michonne showing up... with the baby formula
> 
> Andrea's character does seem to be poorly written... perhaps they overplayed her "disgust" at the staged fight two episodes ago, because her turnaround was a wee bit too easy, as was her abandonment of Michonne, given that they'd had each others' backs for almost a year, alone.
> 
> The Merle/Darryl reunion will be interesting... but not quite so interesting as the Merle/Rick confrontation that is coming.
> 
> The Governer, so far, is entirely less impressive than I'd hoped he'd become...


Just my hunch, but I say Darryl ends up killing Merle to protect Rick. 

Sad that this Sunday will be last episode, then mid season break, not resuming until February 2013. In the middle of a break of Breaking Bad too... I hate waiting for new episodes.


----------



## fjnmusic

I predict Merle will be faced with a difficult choice--go with the governor or go with his brother--similar to what Darth Vader had to face when he threw the emperor down the shaft. Blood is thicker, they say....although on zombies it can be kind of brownish and runny.


----------



## JumboJones

I thought this last episode was intense, I'm still trying to figure out why they went on a tangent with the phone call thing with Rick, I was getting flashbacks of "Lost". I certainly hope they have a better ending planned than they did.


----------



## Macfury

JumboJones said:


> I thought this last episode was intense, I'm still trying to figure out why they went on a tangent with the phone call thing with Rick, I was getting flashbacks of "Lost". I certainly hope they have a better ending planned than they did.


The phone thing was a big part of the comic book. However, Rick's wife dies fairly early on in the comic series--it was either introduce that phone now or never.


----------



## Macfury

Andrea continues her campaign to be the stupidest character this side of Gilligan. Please put the Governor out of his misery.


----------



## fjnmusic

Shane gets killed again! Carole's not a lesbian! I love the Talking Dead with Chris Hardwick. Especially the In Memoriam part.


----------



## CubaMark

_To help us get through the long wait until new episodes...._

*AMC will re-air all 18 Walking Dead episodes in black and white*












> Earlier this year Walking Dead re-released its pilot episode in black and white as a nod to the original comic book. It was so well-received that the showrunners have decided to do it again, but this time the entire first and second seasons will be getting the black and white treatment. The whole thing will start in February!


(io9.com)


----------



## Macfury

I'd turn the comic book to colour instead... in deference to the fact that the series knocks its pitiful meanderings on its ass.


----------



## Macfury

Anybody catch the new episode? Entertaining enough, but I am losing interest in some of the subterfuge. The Andra character continues to suck and I was simply disappointed to see Darryl and Merle striking out together--I'm not interested in this subplot.


----------



## i-rui

saw it. it was entertaining. I enjoy the show, but i don't think its a *great* series (like game of thrones or breaking bad).

I'm not interested in seeing Rick going crazy again. Been there, done that.


----------



## CubaMark

If there's a "shark" moment, it's the ghost scene. I mean... c'mon... Difficult to accept Rick as a capable leader-in-battle who occasionally hears / sees things. But whatever. A decent complement of walkers in this episode... I think of all the scenes, I would pick the Herschel / Glenn chat back at the prison.


----------



## fellfromtree

Rick is just annoying now. Time to leave the prison, the story is going nowhere in there. We get a few new red shirts to waste on the Governor and Woodbury.


----------



## fjnmusic

I enjoy The Talking Dead almost as much after each week's episode. I think Glenn is definitely becoming leadership material. I'd also like to see more of Michonne.


----------



## Macfury

Glenn actually had his head beaten in by an assailant in the comic series recently. They'd do well to keep him alive for the show.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Glenn actually had his head beaten in by an assailant in the comic series recently. They'd do well to keep him alive for the show.


You have to have your one Asian character to meet your demographics. Remember evil Glenn from Woodbury? He didn't last long. It's the law of minority group characters. T-Bone was replaced briefly by Oscar, for example, and now Tyrese. There's a delicate balance that must always be maintained. Glenn is safe for a while--too much of a fan favorite.


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> You have to have your one Asian character to meet your demographics. Remember evil Glenn from Woodbury? He didn't last long. It's the law of minority group characters. T-Bone was replaced briefly by Oscar, for example, and now Tyrese. There's a delicate balance that must always be maintained. Glenn is safe for a while--too much of a fan favorite.


I'm sending Glenn down to the planet's surface--we just received a distress call from Abraham Lincoln.


----------



## CubaMark

For those who can't get enough of Zombies, there's a new BBC Three series starting up... about EX-Zombies! :-o

*The BBC's new series In the Flesh highlights the troubles of being an ex-zombie*



> Zombies? Played out. Ex-Zombies? Now that's where the drama's at — at least according to In the Flesh, BBC Three's new series about Keiran, a young ten who just so happens to have died four years ago and turned into a zombie. Now he's been "cured." and is ready to return home — with the guilt of the people he ate weighing on his mind, and the less-than-warm reception waiting for him by those who fought zombies (and lost loved ones to them) during the brief zombie uprising.


(details and video at io9)


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> For those who can't get enough of Zombies, there's a new BBC Three series starting up... about EX-Zombies! :-o
> 
> *The BBC's new series In the Flesh highlights the troubles of being an ex-zombie*


Managed to be beaten to the punch by _Warm Bodies_--which I kind of enjoyed.

Meanwhile, back at the prison, I'm a little surprised to see the survivors living such a crappy existence. They have food, clothing, a place to plant crops and protection in the form of heavy fencing--and still they manage to look dirty, bedraggled and beaten-down. They keep talking about going somewhere else. Why? What more are they hoping to find? 

I want someone to bite Andrea now.


----------



## Joker Eh

*Really Peeved!*

AMC warns Rogers customers they may lose Mad Men and Walking Dead | Toronto Star



> AMC is warning Canadians will lose cable access to award-winning television shows Mad Men and the post-apocalyptic zombie series The Walking Dead if a distribution contract between the channel and Rogers Communications cannot be finalized by Thursday.


----------



## Macfury

Joker Eh said:


> AMC warns Rogers customers they may lose Mad Men and Walking Dead | Toronto Star


Rogers will make it back in torrent volumes.


----------



## Joker Eh

*Deal Reached now includes HD*

Rogers, AMC reach new distribution deal | Toronto Star


----------



## heavyall

Joker Eh said:


> Rogers, AMC reach new distribution deal | Toronto Star





> The cable company says the new multi-year agreement will also include carrying a high-definition feed of the channel before the end of the month.



You guys didn't already have AMC HD? What the heck? We've had it on Shaw for a long time.

At this point I don't even understand why anyone maintains both SD and HD feeds of the same channels. The HD channels still work, even on REALLY old TVs.


----------



## Macfury

I really enjoyed the last episode. Probably the best in a long time. Heavy with atmosphere and interesting character work--and hardly a mention of the Governor!


----------



## CubaMark

Agreed - nice and focused. And nice to see a familiar face pop up again... though a sad appearance....


----------



## fjnmusic

I was amazed to learn Morgan has a British accent in real life, just like Rick does. Maggie too, I believe.


----------



## Macfury

Fine example:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## fjnmusic

Do you think Rick is beginning to trust Michonne now?


----------



## CubaMark

Well, Carl gave her a big thumbs-up, so yeah.... and I think where the two of them go, character-development-wise, will be a surprise....


----------



## Joker Eh

Macfury said:


> Fine example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


It freaked me out when he started talking now that's all I think about when I watch. Same when I watched House.


----------



## fjnmusic

Half an hour til game time! I hear tell that Rick meets the governor face to face this week...


----------



## CubaMark

I just re-watched last week's episode, "Clear", in anticipation of tonight's show... I gotta say, whoever is in charge of the Emmy nominations should put Lennie James on the ballot for Outstanding Guest Actor in a Drama Series. Heartbreaking....


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> I just re-watched last week's episode, "Clear", in anticipation of tonight's show... I gotta say, whoever is in charge of the Emmy nominations should put Lennie James on the ballot for Outstanding Guest Actor in a Drama Series. Heartbreaking....


Lennie James was great, agreed. It was clear this guy was already living in his personal hell/purgatory for his remaining days. Lots of simmering tension in tonight's episode, though the title might throw you for a loop.


----------



## i-rui

thought last night's episode was a snooze....


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> thought last night's episode was a snooze....


I wasn't much interested in the meeting between Rick and the Governor, but very much enjoyed the interplay between the other characters from both camps. You could see how formidable they were against mere Walkers when they co-operated.


----------



## CubaMark

You do have to wonder if Martinez' and Darryl's shared moment of camaraderie might come to bear on near-future events...

...and I have to admit to a wee bit of a let-down. Lennie James's IMDB entry had the actor credited in last night's episode ("Welcome to the Tombs") as well... a bit of misdirection? Or wishful thinking?


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> ..and I have to admit to a wee bit of a let-down. Lennie James's IMDB entry had the actor credited in last night's episode ("Welcome to the Tombs") as well... a bit of misdirection? Or wishful thinking?


I wonder if they include the episode recaps as a credit?


----------



## CubaMark

Ummmmm....

I was about to insert a spoiler (with appropriate alert) but I see that making text white or grey no longer works to hide it (we previously would do so and those wishing to read it simply had to highlight the text to view).

So... wish I could tell ya what I just clued into....


----------



## iMouse

SPOILER ALERT:

Works for me, in White.

Works for me, in Silver.

Were you in "Advanced"??


----------



## Macfury

iMouse said:


> SPOILER ALERT:
> 
> Works for me, in White.
> 
> Works for me, in Silver.
> 
> Were you in "Advanced"??


That's not the effect. It made the text invisible.


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> Ummmmm....
> 
> I was about to insert a spoiler (with appropriate alert) but I see that making text white or grey no longer works to hide it (we previously would do so and those wishing to read it simply had to highlight the text to view).
> 
> So... wish I could tell ya what I just clued into....


Perhaps an external link?


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> You do have to wonder if Martinez' and Darryl's shared moment of camaraderie might come to bear on near-future events...
> 
> ...and I have to admit to a wee bit of a let-down. Lennie James's IMDB entry had the actor credited in last night's episode ("Welcome to the Tombs") as well... a bit of misdirection? Or wishful thinking?


The Sunday episode was _Arrow on the Doorpost_. _Welcome to the Tombs_ hasn't aired yet.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> The Sunday episode was _Arrow on the Doorpost_. _Welcome to the Tombs_ hasn't aired yet.


Ah, very interesting...now there's a spoiler right there.


----------



## CubaMark

iMouse said:


> SPOILER ALERT:
> 
> Works for me, in White.
> 
> Works for me, in Silver.
> 
> Were you in "Advanced"??


Perhaps my display is calibrated differently? I can see both of those (white and silver) texts against the light grey background here...


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> The Sunday episode was _Arrow on the Doorpost_. _Welcome to the Tombs_ hasn't aired yet.


*ahem* well, no need for a spoiler alert now, I guess....


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> *ahem* well, no need for a spoiler alert now, I guess....


No harm, no foul. I believed you for a minute and began searching the faces of every zombie in the episode.


----------



## Macfury

Too much of the Governor and the dupes who keep believing his transparent lies. I was rooting for Andrea to be bitten, so her dumb facial expressions and endless dithering could be concluded once and for all.


----------



## fjnmusic

I was PO'd when the governor found her, that close to freedom. It was like An Occurence at Owl Creek Bridge or One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Freedom so close you could taste it.


----------



## Macfury

Sure, but all I could think of were the ample opportunities Andrea had to end it all long before.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Sure, but all I could think of were the ample opportunities Andrea had to end it all long before.


I felt bad for Tree Hugging Zombie and Hippy Chick Zombies.


----------



## Macfury

Let's face it-you want to _be_ Tree Hugging Zombie!


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Let's face it-you want to _be_ Tree Hugging Zombie!


Not if it means a knife in the head.


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Not if it means a knife in the head.


If you were Tree Hugging Zombie, by which character would you most wish to be stabbed in the head?


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> If you were Tree Hugging Zombie, by which character would you most wish to be stabbed in the head?


Well, all things considered, Andrea was a pretty good way to go. Don't think I'd want to end up like the fire put zombies though, who couldn't die since their brains hadn't been punctured.


----------



## Macfury

Fire Pit Zombie is a completely undignified role.


----------



## i-rui

such a frustrating episode. the Governor & Andrea are the 2 worst characters on the show. Hoping at least one of them would have been killed off, but i'm sure they'll drag that until the season finale. Apparently the Governor is Batman, since he's the only one who could escape from being surrounded by zombies with out any ammo.

I really like Tyreese and his group. Far more interested in their dynamic than the Governor and Andrea.

Chapters has a 50% sale on the first 2 volumes of the walking dead comic books. It's even cheaper when you apply a coupon code. Comes out the under $29 per book. Check this thread for details.

[Other] Walking Dead Compendium Vol. 1&2 $29 each @ Chapters.ca w/promo code - RedFlagDeals.com Forums


----------



## fjnmusic

Who would be your favorite choice to kill the governor? I pick Chris Hardwick in a special guest appearance.


----------



## CubaMark

Well... *that* was a surprising turn of events... :yikes: Felt like another placeholder episode, though... some decent character development, a few inventive zombie takedowns (Michonne and the wire - cool), but fairly light on action. Next weekend is going to be interesting.


----------



## fjnmusic

Merle, Merle. You've redeemed yourself, Amigo. So sad to see you go twice in five minutes in a Shane-like manner. You will be missed.


----------



## i-rui

probably the best episode of the season. Top marks to Michael Rooker, the actor who plays Merle. 

Once again the weakest scenes were with the Governor. He's basically just a cartoon character now. i'm not saying it's impossible to bite off fingers, but they're not sausages, so you'd have to gnaw on them for a bit with your molars. Perhaps the Governor is filing down his teeth to razor sharp edges now....?


----------



## Joker Eh

Rogers now has AMC on HD. 482


----------



## JCCanuck

fjnmusic said:


> Merle, Merle. You've redeemed yourself, Amigo. So sad to see you go twice in five minutes in a Shane-like manner. You will be missed.


I almost cried but I'm too manly to do that right :-(?


----------



## Macfury

JCCanuck said:


> I almost cried but I'm too manly to do that right :-(?


Poor Merle--didn't kill no one before the Governor came along, and then only murdered 16 of them at that!


----------



## i-rui

Proof That 'The Walking Dead,' 'Toy Story' Are The Same


----------



## fjnmusic

Did anyone notice that Walking Dead Season 3 ends on Easter Sunday this year?


----------



## Macfury

No spoilers yet from me, but a very unsatisfying season finale. Much of the material and character development/motivation was clumsily handled.


----------



## fjnmusic

I liked it, and if I could talk about spoilers, I would. I'll wait though. The Talking Dead episode afterward provided some great insight actually, with both Daryl and Tyreese on hand.


----------



## i-rui

terrible episode. the governor is such a cartoon cliche.


----------



## CubaMark

_Rob Bricken's critique over at io9.com pretty much sums it up for me..._

*The Walking Dead season finale replaces its epic confrontation with some epic bullsh*t*


----------



## Macfury

Let's embargo a discussion with spoilers until 9:00 pm tonight. 24 hours should be enough time for anyone to watch this.


----------



## Macfury

Andrea's death? As welcome a finish as I can imagine. I didn't even like the idea that she should be convinced that her idiocy resulted in anything less than mass slaughter.

The Governor's survival? Wile E. Coyote survives another drop over a cliff. Idiotically slaughtering his entire army was embarrassing, as was watching his two lieutenants hop back in the truck with him with dopey looks on their faces. Having the Governor return significantly decreases my anticipation of the next season.

The preposterous bit of business in which the army is routed in the prison was also unrealistic. How many minutes did Rick and the crew have to set this up again?

Carl's shooting incident? He told that kid to drop the gun and he refused. In Walker World, hesitating any longer than that has caused dozens of deaths. Only that very brief bit of business a few episodes back let the viewer know that the kid might be an innocent dupe. However, Carl did not know what the viewer did. Herschel should be ashamed of himself for ratting out Carl, when the facts favour the kid.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Andrea's death? As welcome a finish as I can imagine. I didn't even like the idea that she should be convinced that her idiocy resulted in anything less than mass slaughter.
> 
> The Governor's survival? Wile E. Coyote survives another drop over a cliff. Idiotically slaughtering his entire army was embarrassing, as was watching his two lieutenants hop back in the truck with him with dopey looks on their faces. Having the Governor return significantly decreases my anticipation of the next season.
> 
> The preposterous bit of business in which the army is routed in the prison was also unrealistic. How many minutes did Rick and the crew have to set this up again?
> 
> Carl's shooting incident? He told that kid to drop the gun and he refused. In Walker World, hesitating any longer than that has caused dozens of deaths. Only that very brief bit of business a few episodes back let the viewer know that the kid might be an innocent dupe. However, Carl did not know what the viewer did. Herschel should be ashamed of himself for ratting out Carl, when the facts favour the kid.


Nobody like a tattletale, Herschel. :clap:


----------



## Macfury

I'm not sure I want Herschel to be eaten just yet, but he's on my provisional menu right now.


----------



## Joker Eh

Macfury said:


> I'm not sure I want Herschel to be eaten just yet, but he's on my provisional menu right now.


Didn't he lose a leg?


----------



## Macfury

Joker Eh said:


> Didn't he lose a leg?


Sure, but a guy who's been relatively useful, you don't eat all at once.


----------



## Macfury

Was watching an older, and not very good, film starring the guy who plays the Governor. Prejudiced me against the film immediately! Playing to type, he was a guy who presented as good, but who was actually a scumbag.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Was watching an older, and not very good, film starring the guy who plays the Governor. Prejudiced me against the film immediately! Playing to type, he was a guy who presented as good, but who was actually a scumbag.


Maybe it's not the role; maybe _it's just the guy._


----------



## iMouse

Forrest Whittiker does the same for me.

I watched his malevolent bad-guy persona on *E.R.*, and I just can't get past that.

He was just too damn good in the roll.

I know, he's a damn good actor, and has had some juicy rolls since, but there you have it.


----------



## CubaMark

Funny - I've not had that reaction to Whittaker. I agree that he's a fabulous actor, but nothing he's done has really typecast him for me. I do remember his recurring role on ER, and I remember thinking at the time that it was a departure for him (had he done mostly "good guy" roles up to that point?).

Hey, it's six months until TWD returns. Gotta talk about something in here....


----------



## Macfury

I'm prejudiced against Whittaker for his work as the host of that dreadful re-incarnation of _The Twilight Zone_.


----------



## iMouse

No one makes perfect choices.

*Ishtar*.


----------



## Macfury

I was encouraged by this trailer for Season 4:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> I was encouraged by this trailer for Season 4:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Totally cool, hey? But I'm also like, how much are they giving away in the trailer? Hope there's still surprises left.


----------



## monokitty

Macfury said:


> I was encouraged by this trailer for Season 4:


Don't be. The trailer probably shows all the action scenes of just 3 combined episodes, while the remaining episodes are slow and boring like Season 3.


----------



## Macfury

monokitty said:


> Don't be. The trailer probably shows all the action scenes of just 3 combined episodes, while the remaining episodes are slow and boring like Season 3.


Maybe five episodes of the Governor sitting on a hilltop and growling to himself?


----------



## Macfury

I enjoyed the first episode, particularly the department store sweep, but the budget strains were showing in one respect--there was almost no sense that all of the Governor's people were now living at the prison. Just a few new faces representing today's victims.


----------



## Joker Eh

Macfury said:


> I enjoyed the first episode, particularly the department store sweep, but the budget strains were showing in one respect--there was almost no sense that all of the Governor's people were now living at the prison. Just a few new faces representing today's victims.


Exactly. Where are all the people? And why not more people are out there punching holes into zombie faces or farming?


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## Macfury

Joker Eh said:


> Exactly. Where are all the people? And why not more people are out there punching holes into zombie faces or farming?


Herschell made some inane statement that Rick had grown all the crops. That's ridiculous. He's growing the crops, walking the perimeter AND snaring all of the game? 

And yes, the people spent more time talking about the zombies gathering at the fence than they did punching skulls.


----------



## Joker Eh

And if it has been 6-7 months since the last episode and Rick has survived without a gun what was the point of the discussion with Herschell about Rick taking a gun with him and he didn't even use it when you would think he should of.

And is it not Carols fault or would there not be a rule if you fall sick or know someone who has that person is quarantined? And that kid (the one who is going to create a mess) told Carol I feel sick and he thanked Daryl for the deer meat which would mean more are sick.


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## Macfury

Joker Eh said:


> And if it has been 6-7 months since the last episode and Rick has survived without a gun what was the point of the discussion with Herschell about Rick taking a gun with him and he didn't even use it when you would think he should of.


...or having Herschell show Rick how to grow tomatoes this late in the game? Do it yourself you old fool!


----------



## Joker Eh

Macfury said:


> ...or having Herschell show Rick how to grow tomatoes this late in the game? Do it yourself you old fool!


Did you notice the shot of Herschell leg? No more CGI.


----------



## fellfromtree

Lost interest in this series last season. I said they have to get out of the prison. Watched the new episode to see if there was any spark- none. Gee, I didn't get the livestock thing, hit me over the head harder.


----------



## fjnmusic

Joker Eh said:


> Did you notice the shot of Herschell leg? No more CGI.


For the shot where they're in the garden, the actor's leg was actually buried in the ground so you could see his new prosthetic foot.


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## Macfury

Did not much enjoy the second episode of the season. Won't give out any spoilers but I found the new plot line "reveal" at the end a complete yawn. Also, as much as I can stand seeing the human doofuses eaten alive, I can't look at CGI effects of pigs being stuck with a knife.


----------



## CubaMark

Another fair episode, certainly.... but the laying of the groundwork for later episode payoffs can be a bit ... tedious. 

I decided tonight that I had to cut back on something, but it won't be Walking Dead. Homeland, though - that show has lost me completely. Totally uninteresting. Claire Danes' acting is the main reason, writing second. The only thing that kept me tuned in this long is my fondness for ex-Firefly actors, and Morena Baccarin isn't getting anywhere near enough screen time to keep me watching.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Another fair episode, certainly.... but the laying of the groundwork for later episode payoffs can be a bit ... tedious.
> 
> I decided tonight that I had to cut back on something, but it won't be Walking Dead. Homeland, though - that show has lost me completely. Totally uninteresting. Claire Danes' acting is the main reason, writing second. The only thing that kept me tuned in this long is my fondness for ex-Firefly actors, and Morena Baccarin isn't getting anywhere near enough screen time to keep me watching.


My difficulty with the episode is that it gives the viewer too little opportunity to settle with the survivors. I want to have an idea of what their lives are like and get a sense of place before they're chased around the yards again. As it is, they're hopping from one disaster to the next without any chance to set a mood.

Also, you'd swear this was the original _Star Trek_ series, with any new character given a name doomed to perish a few minutes in screen time later.


----------



## Joker Eh

I agree with you both. CGI effects are really cheap and with all the viewers you would think a little more money could be spent.

In the Talking Dead show the Executive Producer said there were 45 people living there before the mess and about 15 died. 45 people really? Can you guys not build a story? And wow Rick sacrifices a couple of piglets and destroys the whole farm? You telling me no one else can take care of it? What the hell does Herschel do all day he seems to have a green thumb and lived on a farm before.

Now the burnt bodies and feeding of rats to the dead is the work either Carol, Lindsey, or the Governor (I won't to see them explain how he got in and has been living in the prison)

Maybe we should set a marker for when the show 'jumps the shark'.


----------



## Macfury

It appeared clear to me that the Governor had set up living quarters at Woodbury far more secure than those in the prison--and the people there were living far better lives. I have no idea what made Rick take the Woodbury survivors to the prison with him.

If I happened to be in the prison, I would have spent all my time improving the defenses, including shoring up fences, pouring concrete and any number of projects. Staking the creeps along the fence would have been a full-time occupation.

At this point I have no idea what it is about Rick's leadership that has everyone enthralled. He's loony half the time and not paying attention the other.


----------



## Macfury

The last episode delivered on claustrophobic tension, but then threw cold water in my face with the boring announcement that the governor is still lurking about. Not only does that kill the dramatic tension built up, but also reminds me once again that Woodbury was a settlement 10 times better than this prison pest hole.


----------



## fjnmusic

There were some great father and son zombie killing bonding moments this week. However, the decision to shun Carol seems less logical with people dropping like flies.


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> There were some great father and son zombie killing bonding moments this week. However, the decision to shun Carol seems less logical with people dropping like flies.


Also, it seems pretty clear to me that Carol is covering up for someone. I'll bet the young girl she's befriended is the real bash and burn perp.

Agreed on the zombie killing bonding--scenes like that are pure gold.


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## Joker Eh

Move the story along faster please. Carol didn't even give up a fight. Now she teams up with the governor.


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## Macfury

I thought I would hate the episode featuring my least favourite character, the Governor, but I actually enjoyed it. Not certain if they're trying to rehabilitate him--that won't work for me--but I enjoyed following his progress. Nice touch with the zombie who thinks the Gov's plodding progress makes him one too.


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## CubaMark

Reviews of that episode were pretty harsh... like you, I didn't think it was a bad episode. I'm at a bit of a loss to understand the writer's apparent attempts to show the Governor finding some sort of closure / redemption, but let's see what happens in the next couple of episodes. I'd guess that next week we're going to be hanging out with Brian/Philip and his "new family" plus the old mercenary pals, and the episode after that will be the Governor's return to the prison...


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## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Reviews of that episode were pretty harsh... like you, I didn't think it was a bad episode. I'm at a bit of a loss to understand the writer's apparent attempts to show the Governor finding some sort of closure / redemption, but let's see what happens in the next couple of episodes. I'd guess that next week we're going to be hanging out with Brian/Philip and his "new family" plus the old mercenary pals, and the episode after that will be the Governor's return to the prison...


It''s an odd call to start such an abrupt arc so close to the season finale. Some people hoped to see what caused the Governor to change his tune in those intervening months. From where I sit, the Gov hasn't changed. While that family benefited from his protection, he's clearly trying to make amends for his perceived failure with his own family--and none of the new people have crossed him yet.


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## CubaMark




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## Joker Eh

OK Lesbian action? wow or did I miss something?

I really hate these flashbacks. What am I watching Lost?


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## Macfury

Joker Eh said:


> OK Lesbian action? wow or did I miss something?
> 
> I really hate these flashbacks. What am I watching Lost?


If they need a flashback to review all of the crap that's happened to the Governor, I'd rather see it that way then interwoven through the plot. However, by the end of the episode his arc is rendered almost totally unnecessary. He goes through a thoughtful phase, but winds up as the same SOB that lost the last battle. If he had just popped out of the woods again, it would have amounted to the same thing.

Pretty ridiculous to imagine he could convince a small group like that to attack an armed prison, but I guess that's what's happening next.


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## CubaMark

Agreed. The development of the Governor's character over these past two episodes was a total waste of time. Do the fans give a ^&*( that he fell, lost everything, found redemption, lost it, and is now back to his old psychopathic ways? Uh -* no.* Unless all of this was just a way to explain how he found a tank (and someone to drive it for him)... which still wouldn't require two entire episodes...

The Walking Dead. The show you hate to love....


----------



## heavyall

The problem with the recent Governor story arc is there's just not enough time to tell it properly. The whole Phillip is really Brian / he's a good guy who really cares, but events hardened him / etc, took four full length novels to tell. No matter how you try to condense it, it's going to get discombobulated. The real short story is the nice guy version is who Brian really is, it's who he was for his entire life, and it was very extreme events that caused him to snap and become the Phillip/Governor character.


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## fjnmusic

I like the governor story arc, and I'm glad they didn't drag it out. I feel that the dark side is always just under the surface with this guy, and his dispensing of the competition last episode reflects that. What's amazing is how many people get sucked in by him, but isn't that always the way with sociopaths?


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> I like the governor story arc, and I'm glad they didn't drag it out. I feel that the dark side is always just under the surface with this guy....


Not far enough to be interesting to me. Pull a tab off a beer the wrong way and you wake up in a pit of zombies.


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## CubaMark

Something to laugh at while I wait for tonight's installment to appear....


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## fjnmusic

Herschel should have called him the Governor again just to see what would happen.


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## Macfury

I found the episode pointlessly frustrating. Just a miserable business designed to move the cast from one setting to the next, but punctuated by additional pointless deaths.

And that idiot Rick should have long ago been digging massive trenches with bulldozers and collecting anti-tank weapons from Atlanta military bases.


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## i-rui

at least they *finally* killed off the governor. 

thank god


----------



## Macfury

i-rui said:


> at least they *finally* killed off the governor.


I was really getting nervous there, when he was left with just a sword run through him. I saw his "ex" aim a gun at his "haid" and pull the trigger, but it took a mention in _Talking Dead_ to convince me this guy was gone for good.


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## CubaMark

Well... at least we can say this episode didn't drag on like the last two.... Would have liked better writing for Rick's speech at the gate. He might have mentioned, y'know, that the last time this guy had a following, he massacred them on the side of the road. Hershel's death was pretty graphic / ugly, a huge loss for the group. Wonder where they go now....? Not having read the graphic novel series, I'm in the dark about direction. 

And Judith? Surely she's on the bus....?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> And that idiot Rick should have long ago been digging massive trenches with bulldozers and collecting anti-tank weapons from Atlanta military bases.


Agreed. I know the tank vs prison scene is a biggie from the graphic novel and they pretty much had to keep it in there, but even without an overt tank threat, one would have thought the previous months would have been spent shoring up the defenses simply against the walkers... Didn't Rick learn anything from his old pal Morgan?


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## fjnmusic

Judith was not mentioned in the In Memoriam on the Talking Dead afterwards, so there's your faint hope. I think Tyrell will become surrogate dad yo a group of misfit kids, where they'll meet up with Carol in the woods. Remember: Tyrell doesn't know yet.


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## CubaMark

fjnmusic said:


> Tyrell will become surrogate dad yo a group of misfit kids, where they'll meet up with Carol in the woods. Remember: Tyrell doesn't know yet.


Heh - that would be an interesting development... I'm interested in seeing how Lizzie turns out - if she sticks around for another season or two and grows up on the show - she may become a female version of Daryl...


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## Macfury

I'm gut-sure that Lizzie offed those people, and that Carol was covering for her. In the comics, Carl secretly kills a murderous li'l kid, and I'm wondering if they'll put Lizzie in that position.


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## fjnmusic

Hope this link works. Notice Tyreese carrying something as he runs, and it's not his gun because that's on his back. I believe Judith is alive and well for a zombie apocalypse. http://i.imgur.com/OrQdoua.gif


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## fjnmusic

Here's a little trivia tidbit for all you Walking Dead fans: in the trailer for the very first season, after meeting Morgan, when Rick decides "Atlanta sounds like a good deal" and he rides into town on his horse, there is a song playing in the background. The name of the song, rather hilariously, is "The Sun Ain't Gonna Shine Anymore." The artist? Here's the Easter egg: Scott Walker and the Walker Brothers. 

http://youtu.be/GJRNHAJAcYg


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Notice Tyreese carrying something as he runs, and it's not his gun because that's on his back. I believe Judith is alive and well for a zombie apocalypse.


Yes, you were right on that count.

I've been enjoying the first three governor-free episodes. Nice, elemental stuff.


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Yes, you were right on that count.
> 
> I've been enjoying the first three governor-free episodes. Nice, elemental stuff.


I think it's more interesting seeing the group splintered and trying to survive outside of the prison walls again. Rick's little adventure under the bed was certainly suspenseful, and it's nice to see Glenn man up after getting over the flu.


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## Macfury

Another solid episode. Makes it feel like the jail stuff never happened.


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## Joker Eh

Macfury said:


> Another solid episode. Makes it feel like the jail stuff never happened.


+1

Is that a romance brewing?


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## fjnmusic

Penultimate episode of the season tonight!


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## Macfury

Terminus doesn't look so hot already.


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## fjnmusic

Yeah, something about that lady there, all be her lonesome, nobody watching the gates, no other people. Kinda freaky. My daughter figured all the citizens are at their cult meeting. Maybe that's where they're keeping Beth, getting her all ready for the sacrifice to the safety gods.


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## Macfury

You'd think after meeting the governor, Glen and Maggie would be a little less bright eyed and bushy tailed in Terminus.

I'll admit I hadn't yet matched up that new band of galoots with Daryl and the group Rick encountered in the house. That won't turn out well.


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## fjnmusic

Terminus >> Tasha Freakin' Yar! How cool is that? And apparently she's wearing Beth's sweater... http://tymberdalton.com/the-walking-dead-what-is-terminus-lets-discuss/









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## Joker Eh

Took to long to get to this point.


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## Macfury

Joker Eh said:


> Took to long to get to this point.


I'm more of an opinion that it isn't how long it took, but that it happened so late in the season.

Never liked Denise Crosby, so seeing her is a downer.


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## fjnmusic

http://youtu.be/ctM3U1SOVQg


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## Macfury

No! _Denise_ Downer.


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## CubaMark

Guess we were all too traumatized by "The Grove" to drop by and discuss it last week, eh? Man.... didn't see that coming. Great performances all around, particularly by the girl who plays Lizzie. Simply fabulous acting.

"Us" was pretty standard fair - moved us along. I wonder, though, if Maggie will learn the truth about Tara and if she could be as forgiving as Glen... 

Terminus, though. Yah. Creepy as hell... pretty much empty. And I totally didn't recognize Denise Crosby (agreed, MF, not one of my favourite actresses).

Well, let's see what the finale will bring... Rick certainly looks the worse for wear in the trailers...


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## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Guess we were all too traumatized by "The Grove" to drop by and discuss it last week, eh? Man.... didn't see that coming. Great performances all around, particularly by the girl who plays Lizzie. Simply fabulous acting.


I was so sure that Lizzie had killed those sick people, not Carol, so that was a nice red herring. I appreciated the complexity of the situation as well. Carol simply seems to have the stones to off people when it seems expedient. When she shot Lizzie it made me second-guess myself--was it _really _necessary?

Shades of _Of Mice and Men_!


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## Joker Eh

Macfury said:


> I was so sure that Lizzie had killed those sick people, not Carol, so that was a nice red herring. I appreciated the complexity of the situation as well. Carol simply seems to have the stones to off people when it seems expedient. When she shot Lizzie it made me second-guess myself--was it _really _necessary?
> 
> Shades of _Of Mice and Men_!


With you on Lizzie killing those sick people. But Carol popping one into Lizzie's brain just goes to show Rick was right and she had to be kicked out.

This may be Denise Crosby chance to really do some acting now, you never know. 

I have never read the comics so I don't know how the story goes, but Terminus just seems like another Woodbury, was hoping for something different with Terminus. Just not some crazed individual.


----------



## fjnmusic

Season finale this season! Who survives? Who not so much?


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## Joker Eh

What are your thoughts on finale?


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## fjnmusic

How about some delicious barbecue!


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## Macfury

It was curious. I liked the brutal end to the band of rovers which caught up with Rick. I also enjoyed those oddball prison flashbacks with Hershel. Terminus, not so much. It's hard to watch the cast stumble into this hole like doofuses. That line about "messing with the wrong people" rang really hollow considering they were all locked in a train car. If they survive this, it's luck or mercy, not smarts or toughness. I wish that Rick would not be shown, time and again, to be such a dreadful leader. He whittled away the survivors of Woodbury to nothing in record time. If the Governor had not been such an idiot, his Woodbury would have easily surpassed any of Rick's plans for effectiveness.


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## Joker Eh

Maybe that was Rick's plan. he did bury the weapons cash outside the fence and those inside didn't see he was coming. And we still don't know where Carol and what's his name are, so she could find the weapons and mount some sort of attack.


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## Macfury

Joker Eh said:


> Maybe that was Rick's plan. he did bury the weapons cash outside the fence and those inside didn't see he was coming. And we still don't know where Carol and what's his name are, so she could find the weapons and mount some sort of attack.


That could happen, but that isn't a plan. It would be dumb luck.


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## Joker Eh

Macfury said:


> That could happen, but that isn't a plan. It would be dumb luck.


Isn't a plan just hope? Hope that everything you planned for goes the right way. And isn't hope just another word for luck?


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## Macfury

Joker Eh said:


> Isn't a plan just hope? Hope that everything you planned for goes the right way. And isn't hope just another word for luck?


Nope, a plan involves detailed strategy, including an exit strategy. Right now those doofuses are stuck inside an iron box. If the Terminus people want them dead, they're dead. They don't know who is coming. They told nobody where they are. They are weaponless.

Nice going!


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## fjnmusic

Joker Eh said:


> Isn't a plan just hope? Hope that everything you planned for goes the right way. And isn't hope just another word for luck?


And freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose. It was good to see Rick's "dark passenger" re-emerge. But it's going to take a lot more than luck to defeat the cannibals, who prefer to keep their meat alive and untainted during the consumption process. Those were pretty sizeable hunks of steak considering there were no cows around.


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## Macfury

Seriously, by this time, even with a small population in the area, Terminus would be identified as "Cannibal Town" by now.


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## Joker Eh

Macfury said:


> Seriously, by this time, even with a small population in the area, Terminus would be identified as "Cannibal Town" by now.


That is if anyone got in and then got out.


----------



## CubaMark

Unquestionably, the highlight of the episode was Rick's taking out the group of hunters that Darryl had fallen in with. When he says "He's Mine....", well, you can't help yourself but give a little cheer. It was an episode front-loaded with trauma, and the ending couldn't have been anything but anticlimactic. I do think they could have been smarter than just allowing themselves to be run through the maze at Terminus (a little obvious with the snare / rabbit foreshadowing, dontcha' think?).

Now, the looooong wait until October....


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## fjnmusic

On Gareth. Such hunter. Much hungry.


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## Macfury

Someone made a good point about a cannibal band in such an apocalypse--it seems like a p i s s-poor misuse of resources when the deer population must be exploding. How about forcing some of your captives to wok for you instead, clearing out grocery stores and the like?


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Someone made a good point about a cannibal band in such an apocalypse--it seems like a p i s s-poor misuse of resources when the deer population must be exploding. How about forcing some of your captives to wok for you instead, clearing out grocery stores and the like?


I read that they use tourniquets to keep the...uh...meat fresh. It's also why the Terminus folks were deliberately missing with their bullets. Nothing worse than having your fresh meat supply ruined because one of the injured turned walker inside those rail cars and devoured or turned the other people.


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> I read that they use tourniquets to keep the...uh...meat fresh. It's also why the Terminus folks were deliberately missing with their bullets. Nothing worse than having your fresh meat supply ruined because one of the injured turned walker inside those rail cars and devoured or turned the other people.


Well, they were herding them to the train car just like the rabbit to the snare.

But again, why eat people when you've got deer. There aren't that many people left in the world anyway.


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## Joker Eh

Macfury said:


> Well, they were herding them to the train car just like the rabbit to the snare.
> 
> But again, why eat people when you've got deer. There aren't that many people left in the world anyway.


Maybe there is walking dead deer. :lmao:


----------



## heavyall

Macfury said:


> Well, they were herding them to the train car just like the rabbit to the snare.
> 
> But again, why eat people when you've got deer. There aren't that many people left in the world anyway.


People do crazy things, and come to insane conclusions when things go south. They'd still have to go and hunt the deer, The system they've got now has the food just walking right in the front door.

I'm more impressed with the fact that Terminus is so secure from the walkers. Look at the issues that both Woodbury and the Prison had with basically getting over-run. I wonder what their defense strategy is? Especially since they leave the front gate unguarded, and people coming in COULD just leave it open behind them allowing a swarm to come in behind them.


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> People do crazy things, and come to insane conclusions when things go south. They'd still have to go and hunt the deer, The system they've got now has the food just walking right in the front door.
> 
> I'm more impressed with the fact that Terminus is so secure from the walkers. Look at the issues that both Woodbury and the Prison had with basically getting over-run. I wonder what their defense strategy is? Especially since they leave the front gate unguarded, and people coming in COULD just leave it open behind them allowing a swarm to come in behind them.


The point I'm making is that, given the scarcity of human beings during this apocalypse, it's a losing strategy. Look at all of the soldiers they have on the roof, just to keep this going. I might expect to see some cannibals, but not people who are on a steady cannibal diet.

The defense strategy is to leave those gates open whenever lunch is walking up to the Terminus, then locking them later. I'm not even sure that Rick and crew actually "snuck" in. I believe they were allowed in.


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## CubaMark

Joker Eh said:


> Maybe there is walking dead deer. :lmao:


Isn't that the spinoff they have planned for 2015? :lmao:

As for Terminus appearing empty, gates open, etc., I think it can be pretty confidently assumed that there are a whole lot of eyes on the perimeter, mainly from the rooftops...


----------



## heavyall

Macfury said:


> The point I'm making is that, given the scarcity of human beings during this apocalypse, it's a losing strategy. Look at all of the soldiers they have on the roof, just to keep this going. I might expect to see some cannibals, but not people who are on a steady cannibal diet.


Oh. I agree, it's a bad move all around. What I mean is, people dealing with extremely stressful situations tend to make bad decisions.




> The defense strategy is to leave those gates open whenever lunch is walking up to the Terminus, then locking them later. I'm not even sure that Rick and crew actually "snuck" in. I believe they were allowed in.


You're probably right there. That might even bite them on the butt when they try to mount their comeback/retaliation: they escape and run to where all their weapons are buried, only to find out that the Terminus people saw them bury it and already took the stuff.


----------



## Macfury

Even the short-term feeding of human cattle seems like a poor use of resources, unless they're up for lunch by the end of the week,

I guess the big bet is on whether we get an outside rescue, or whether the Terminus people screw up mightily and allow unarmed people inside welded steel boxcars to overtake them.

It's kind of interesting that it's been only a couple of years since the apocalypse and yet simply following the railway, nobody knows where it goes--nobody even has a map taken out of an automobile glove box to check. For example, I know a little bit about where I would wind up if I followed some of the railroad lines in Toronto.


----------



## Macfury

The promo reels for the new season certainly take all of the suspense out of being locked in the cattle car.

Has anyone watched the new SyFy series _Z Nation_? It's the first TV series produced by The Asylum, the same guys who made the _Sharknado_ films. It's appallingly acted and looks cheap—and yet I laughed hard enough at some of it, that I'm starting to enjoy it. There's a bit with the Liberty Bell in Philly that was petty darned funny.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> The promo reels for the new season certainly take all of the suspense out of being locked in the cattle car.


Agreed. I guess the writers decided that since we know they're going to get out of the train car, not much to lose. But it does dull the anticipation somewhat.



Macfury said:


> Has anyone watched the new SyFy series _Z Nation_? It's the first TV series produced by The Asylum, the same guys who made the _Sharknado_ films. It's appallingly acted and looks cheap—and yet I laughed hard enough at some of it, that I'm starting to enjoy it. There's a bit with the Liberty Bell in Philly that was petty darned funny.


In the "so bad it's good" category, eh? Yeah, I'm watching it... and yeah, I cringe frequently, but there are some laughs. Shame they lost the soldier at the beginning - Harold Perrineau who was on Lost - apart from him, the only actor I recognize is nerd fan favourite DJ Qualls (recently of Supernatural).


----------



## Macfury

Well, CM, on zombies we tend to find common ground. 

What saves _Z Nation_ is the fact that they know they're being ridiculous. Each of the first three episodes features at least one deliberately nutty sequence--the zombie baby, the oil pipe zombies, and the Liberty Bell. It's a wink to the audience that makes the rest of the show's shortcomings more palatable.


----------



## BReligion

As a fan of all things Zombie i am enjoying Z Nattion... It's silly, it's campy, it's non stop action packed. Don't let any real emotional stuff get in the way  
The only thing really bugs me as a fan of the Zombie Genre, and it has happened in the first two episodes (I haven't watched the third, maybe it will be in all three) Zombies.... All Zombies, in every instance ever... DON'T PLAY HIDE AND SEEK forcing you to hunt them down and inevitably bad things happen (not wanting to spoil anything for anyone). They are driven to eat flesh. Mindless, no intelligence, no reasoning, no fear, no pain, no logic.... I could keep going you get the idea.

I do like the fact they have brought into the story both Fast Zombies and the traditional Slow Paced Zombies (my personal favourite). 

BReligion


----------



## Macfury

Agreed. As I once read somewhere, being dead is a disability, not a superpower.



BReligion said:


> The only thing really bugs me as a fan of the Zombie Genre, and it has happened in the first two episodes (I haven't watched the third, maybe it will be in all three) Zombies.... All Zombies, in every instance ever... DON'T PLAY HIDE AND SEEK forcing you to hunt them down and inevitably bad things happen (not wanting to spoil anything for anyone). They are driven to eat flesh. Mindless, no intelligence, no reasoning, no fear, no pain, no logic.... I could keep going you get the idea.


----------



## fjnmusic

BReligion said:


> As a fan of all things Zombie i am enjoying Z Nattion... It's silly, it's campy, it's non stop action packed. Don't let any real emotional stuff get in the way
> The only thing really bugs me as a fan of the Zombie Genre, and it has happened in the first two episodes (I haven't watched the third, maybe it will be in all three) Zombies.... All Zombies, in every instance ever... DON'T PLAY HIDE AND SEEK forcing you to hunt them down and inevitably bad things happen (not wanting to spoil anything for anyone). They are driven to eat flesh. Mindless, no intelligence, no reasoning, no fear, no pain, no logic.... I could keep going you get the idea.
> 
> I do like the fact they have brought into the story both Fast Zombies and the traditional Slow Paced Zombies (my personal favourite).
> 
> BReligion


You realize of course that zombies are make believe, right? So you can make them do anything you want as a writer. Even come to life after falling in love after eating her boyfriend's brain if that's what it takes.


----------



## BReligion

fjnmusic said:


> You realize of course that zombies are make believe, right? So you can make them do anything you want as a writer. Even come to life after falling in love after eating her boyfriend's brain if that's what it takes.


Actually... There is a fungus that effectively turns ants into Zombies that's real.. ;o)

Anyways. Yes there is writing creative freedom with any genre. I fully believe that writers can do anything they want within the confines of that genre. In the movie Land of the Dead they showed some intelligence seeking revenge. That drive was still hell bent on eating flesh but it drove them to follow and seek out... never stopping never getting distracted like they normally do. It was weak but they wove that into the story. 

In Z Nation they have used it as a cheap laugh to entrap and kill a character. Just a weak cop out. It would be like a Vampire using an umbrella to travel freely in the day light or a Warewolf refusing to look up to acknowledge a full moon to prevent a change just because they needed to do something that evening. 

Like i said I am enjoying the show (and yes as noted above the Liberty Bell gag was awesome). 

BReligion


----------



## fjnmusic

BReligion said:


> Actually... There is a fungus that effectively turns ants into Zombies that's real.. ;o)
> 
> 
> 
> Anyways. Yes there is writing creative freedom with any genre. I fully believe that writers can do anything they want within the confines of that genre. In the movie Land of the Dead they showed some intelligence seeking revenge. That drive was still hell bent on eating flesh but it drove them to follow and seek out... never stopping never getting distracted like they normally do. It was weak but they wove that into the story.
> 
> 
> 
> In Z Nation they have used it as a cheap laugh to entrap and kill a character. Just a weak cop out. It would be like a Vampire using an umbrella to travel freely in the day light or a Warewolf refusing to look up to acknowledge a full moon to prevent a change just because they needed to do something that evening.
> 
> 
> 
> Like i said I am enjoying the show (and yes as noted above the Liberty Bell gag was awesome).
> 
> 
> 
> BReligion



I shall have to keep an eye out for this Z Nation. 


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## BReligion

fjnmusic said:


> I shall have to keep an eye out for this Z Nation.


It's a SyFy series in the US that Space channel here in canada is running. New episodes air Friday nights at 10 est I believe. 

And with all my ranting it was such a small thing most people probably wouldn't even have thought twice about it amongst all the other wonderful campy parts. 

BReligion


----------



## Macfury

Be prepared for this Friday's episode--_Z-Nado._ The previews looked good!


----------



## Macfury

The Z-nado was pretty understated.


----------



## CubaMark

That one really dialed back the humour, eh? As for the Z-nado, I chuckled 

Now, on to more important things... one more sleep until WD Season 5 begins


----------



## Macfury

At one point, one of the characters made a comment about sharks!

It's a curious series in that I don't really have any idea what sort of story arc it's aiming for. Illinois is 800 miles from Philly, so this is no slow journey and "the package" is already looking pretty green around the gills. Having proved himself inept in locating a working helicopter last episode, Citizen Z is pretty much on the sidelines--and not very respected.

I appreciated the indeterminate nature of the "rescue" by the husband firefighter. Hard to say if he arrived dead or alive.

Looking forward to starting up with WD as well, despite the spoiler season promos. I read the comic series very quickly--I never much liked it--so I hope they manage to deviate somewhat from the original Washington, DC storyline.



CubaMark said:


> That one really dialed back the humour, eh? As for the Z-nado, I chuckled
> 
> Now, on to more important things... one more sleep until WD Season 5 begins


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> That one really dialed back the humour, eh? As for the Z-nado, I chuckled
> 
> 
> 
> Now, on to more important things... one more sleep until WD Season 5 begins



Looking forward to it, Mark. AMC wisely showed another very popular series in the interim so we'd catch the previews for WD and also to remind us Better Caul Saul comes out in a few months (Feb I'm told). Anyhoo, looking forward to finding out what's really going on at Terminus.


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Looking forward to it, Mark. AMC wisely showed another very popular series in the interim so we'd catch the previews for WD and also to remind us Better Caul Saul comes out in a few months (Feb I'm told). Anyhoo, looking forward to finding out what's really going on at Terminus.



Don't watch any promos, then--or you will already know.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Don't watch any promos, then--or you will already know.



Hardly. The promos are often intentionally misleading. For all we know Beth is hanging out with the cannibals while the Termites are just weird people.


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## Macfury

Sure.



fjnmusic said:


> Hardly. The promos are often intentionally misleading. For all we know Beth is hanging out with the cannibals while the Termites are just weird people.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CubaMark

*Awesome.*


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> *Awesome.*



Must agree. Lots of loose ends tied up, and good to see Morgan back again (finally). Talking Dead with Chris Hardwick afterwards entertaining as always. I thought they would be spending some time at Terminus like they did with the farm, the prison, Woodbury, etc. but no—just wham, bam, thank you ma'am. I suppose, like Scott Gimple said, they did spend about eight episodes building up to it, so it wasn't like they weren't telling that story, and there are many more stories to tell.


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## CubaMark

fjnmusic said:


> Must agree. Lots of loose ends tied up, and good to see Morgan back again (finally).


*Question*: Was Carol channelling Eastwood or Rambo in this episode? _Total badassery....._


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> *Question*: Was Carol channelling Eastwood or Rambo in this episode? _Total badassery....._



Or perhaps Ripley from Aliens. 😈


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## Macfury

The whole idea of people hunting for humans to eat in a world where humans are among the scarcest prey is ludicrous. Deer or cattle would make way more sense. The backstory of Sanctuary was lame-ass.

That said, propane explosion, fiery zombie revenge and assorted payback were beautiful.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> The whole idea of people hunting for humans to eat in a world where humans are among the scarcest prey is ludicrous. Deer or cattle would make way more sense. The backstory of Sanctuary was lame-ass.
> 
> 
> 
> That said, propane explosion, fiery zombie revenge and assorted payback were beautiful.



I imagine raising cattle would be a lot more work and require a lot more resources than simply capturing and slaughtering humans. The way the Termites went about it was just so ruthless, too, I suppose the same way we slaughter cattle. Just business. Maybe that was the animal rights part of the story. 

It was great to see Carol become the badass she was meant to be. She is the Heisenberg of the Walking Dead.


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## CubaMark

So many good moments for the actors and their characters - most of 'em overshadowed by badass Carol. But let me highlight one: *Tyreese busting through the door after dispatching zombies to rescue Judith.*





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.







And kudos to the* Zombie flambé.* Great visual.


----------



## heavyall

Great episode. I cheered out loud for bad-ass Carol. I loved the non-linear timeline too. Hooray for Tyreese finally snapping out of it too.

I'm very excited to see how Gareth ends up back with the group (as seen in the trailer). After what we've seen, it seems impossible that they would trust him and take him in willingly, and I'm pretty certain that he was shot on the roof of Terminus while the group made their escape, so he's going to need medical attention as well. Why would they help him?? I can't wait!



Macfury said:


> The whole idea of people hunting for humans to eat in a world where humans are among the scarcest prey is ludicrous. Deer or cattle would make way more sense.


You can't just put up a few signs and expect fully raised cattle to come to you from miles around. This way, they don't have to do any work other than the slaughter.

But deer? Yeah, they would be overrunning the place by now, it should be easy to hunt them.


----------



## Macfury

It wouldn't take too long before Terminus was on everybody's radar as a stayaway place--even post apocalypse--so I doubt a lot of people would continue to follow the signs. Likely very few people left in the area to follow the signs anyway.

Don't now how long it would take for cows and bulls to naturalize, though. Maybe hey would become extinct.



heavyall said:


> You can't just put up a few signs and expect fully raised cattle to come to you from miles around. This way, they don't have to do any work other than the slaughter.
> 
> But deer? Yeah, they would be overrunning the place by now, it should be easy to hunt them.


----------



## heavyall

Macfury said:


> It wouldn't take too long before Terminus was on everybody's radar as a stayaway place--even post apocalypse--


Only if people routinely escaped to spread the word.


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> Only if people routinely escaped to spread the word.


Not everyone would run inside there on the sayso of an old creep with a stewpot. It would become clear pretty quickly that something was amiss at Terminus.


----------



## fjnmusic

"Strange things are afoot at the Circle K," said Ted.


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## BReligion

Macfury said:


> Not everyone would run inside there on the sayso of an old creep with a stewpot. It would become clear pretty quickly that something was amiss at Terminus.


But that was just it... the beauty of the trap. They had/wanted the place (i can't remember the term/quote) cleaned up back to innocence after that bunch was to be hung to dry and hidden.

They didn't kill/eat everyone. Only the weak/feeble would go right to the train cars as they came into Terminus. 
They would bring you in and feed you, let you relax for a few days. Then they would tell you "oh btw, you know that meat.... yeah not a lot of cows around eh.... So how do you feel about this?" If you were cool with that, then you would join them and become termite.. if not, off to the train cars with you. 

As was previously stated. Nothing was sadistic or cruel about them. All business, no emotion. Pretty sure they would vet those that said they loved the meat and they were down with the program. No just smiling, nodding and then running at the first chance. They wouldn't be fooled again.

BReligion


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## Macfury

I was thinking of those on the outside who knew people who went to Terminus but never came out again.


----------



## BReligion

True.. but how would you know if those people actually made it to Terminus and not got killed along the way. It's a honey pot. That sweet sweet trap you can't help but fall into. 

I would think in that world you would only find out about those that went ahead of you by A) going in after them and falling into the trap. Or B) If your plan was waiting in the woods just watching and waiting they would know and bring you in one way or another. Like they knew about rick and the gang coming in. They knew about Rick in the woods and the fact he had hidden a bag of goodies out there. They had scouts constantly watching the perimeter.


BReligion


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## Macfury

To me it looked like a concentration camp run by New Age maniacs. I wouldn't have remotely been caught in that honey pot.


----------



## fjnmusic

BReligion said:


> But that was just it... the beauty of the trap. They had/wanted the place (i can't remember the term/quote) cleaned up back to innocence after that bunch was to be hung to dry and hidden.
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't kill/eat everyone. Only the weak/feeble would go right to the train cars as they came into Terminus.
> 
> They would bring you in and feed you, let you relax for a few days. Then they would tell you "oh btw, you know that meat.... yeah not a lot of cows around eh.... So how do you feel about this?" If you were cool with that, then you would join them and become termite.. if not, off to the train cars with you.
> 
> 
> 
> As was previously stated. Nothing was sadistic or cruel about them. All business, no emotion. Pretty sure they would vet those that said they loved the meat and they were down with the program. No just smiling, nodding and then running at the first chance. They wouldn't be fooled again.
> 
> 
> 
> BReligion



I think it was the total lack of emotion that made their actions even more cruel. Sociopathic, actually. I thought the story would go on for a few episodes, but I think they showed us enough carcasses and bloodletting that we got the idea pretty quickly.


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> To me it looked like a concentration camp run by New Age maniacs. I wouldn't have remotely been caught in that honey pot.



Hipsters. Millennials. Hipster Millennials Gen Y types.


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## BReligion

fjnmusic said:


> I think it was the total lack of emotion that made their actions even more cruel. Sociopathic, actually. I thought the story would go on for a few episodes, but I think they showed us enough carcasses and bloodletting that we got the idea pretty quickly.


Definitely off... but again i wouldn't say cruel. To me they were way more creepy and off putting then a psycho like the Governor. He was sick, sadistic and enjoyed inflicting pain on his enemies. But he was driven by hate.
For the termites, they weren't killing people. They had dehumanized them. They were nothing more then slaughtering cattle. "4 from A, and 4 from D". Club in the head to knock them out, throat slice to finish the kill and bleed them out. Next. There was no torture, no infliction of pain. Even with Rick, when he wouldn't give up the gun info.. Gareth had a knife out, but didn't go and cause pain and slash and stab or anything.

Oh.. from my earlier post.. and they were going back to "Public Face" everything needed to be cleaned up by sundown.

BReligion


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## fjnmusic

BReligion said:


> Definitely off... but again i wouldn't say cruel. To me they were way more creepy and off putting then a psycho like the Governor. He was sick, sadistic and enjoyed inflicting pain on his enemies. But he was driven by hate.
> 
> For the termites, they weren't killing people. They had dehumanized them. They were nothing more then slaughtering cattle. "4 from A, and 4 from D". Club in the head to knock them out, throat slice to finish the kill and bleed them out. Next. There was no torture, no infliction of pain. Even with Rick, when he wouldn't give up the gun info.. Gareth had a knife out, but didn't go and cause pain and slash and stab or anything.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh.. from my earlier post.. and they were going back to "Public Face" everything needed to be cleaned up by sundown.
> 
> 
> 
> BReligion



About as cold as you can get. Institutionalized violence. I imagine the PETA people could find much to identify with in this episode.


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## Macfury

PETA believes that owning a pet doxie, eating eggs or drinking milk is animal abuse. They would probably faint every time Rick steps on a mushroom.



fjnmusic said:


> About as cold as you can get. Institutionalized violence. I imagine the PETA people could find much to identify with in this episode.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> PETA believes that owning a pet doxie, eating eggs or drinking milk is animal abuse. They would probably faint every time Rick steps on a mushroom.


Lol.. They probably would have started a campaign against Lizzy for her uhm playing(?) with the rats and the bunnies. Probably a protest and march was being organized, but she never made it out of the Grove (probably one of the best Episodes of Season 4).

BReligion


----------



## maximusbibicus

fjnmusic said:


> "strange things are afoot at the circle k," said ted.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iphone using tapatalk


excellent!!!


----------



## Macfury

_Z-Nation_ killed off its nominal lead for the second time in five episodes. The series is taking an odd trajectory.


----------



## Macfury

Getting into that flooded basement with zombies was lame, as was hanging around with the Reverend. This was just Rick being a dumbass.


----------



## Macfury

Was not much enjoying the episode inside the Atlanta hospital. It smacked heavily of budget cutting.

In related news, the corny but entertaining _Z-Nation_ was renewed for a second season. I enjoyed one bit with Murphy, the half-zombie character, simply ripping off food from a woman and her child to bring to his group. The mother asks him to tell her husband, if they see him, that they are alive. He DOES see her husband, now a zombie, and lets him in the side door.


----------



## fjnmusic

Just can't get into the Abraham storyline, and anyone with half a brain could have figured out Eugene was a hack from the beginning, even if you hadn't read the comics. Him peeping out from the self-help section was kind of funny though. I did enjoy the Beth episode last week though, and I'm looking forward to the Daryl+Carol rescue next week.


----------



## Macfury

I watched the episode. Another lame ass effort, only slightly more tolerable than the lacklustre Beth episode.



fjnmusic said:


> Just can't get into the Abraham storyline, and anyone with half a brain could have figured out Eugene was a hack from the beginning, even if you hadn't read the comics. Him peeping out from the self-help section was kind of funny though. I did enjoy the Beth episode last week though, and I'm looking forward to the Daryl+Carol rescue next week.


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> Was not much enjoying the episode inside the Atlanta hospital. It smacked heavily of budget cutting.
> 
> In related news, the corny but entertaining _Z-Nation_ was renewed for a second season. I enjoyed one bit with Murphy, the half-zombie character, simply ripping off food from a woman and her child to bring to his group. The mother asks him to tell her husband, if they see him, that they are alive. He DOES see her husband, now a zombie, and lets him in the side door.


And the best part of the episode, when asked where he found all the food and supplies he coldly responds "I took them from a dead family..."


BReligion


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## Macfury

Glad to see someone else enjoyed it--that line was great! 



BReligion said:


> And the best part of the episode, when asked where he found all the food and supplies he coldly responds "I took them from a dead family..."
> 
> 
> BReligion


----------



## CubaMark

Having not read the comics, I'm perhaps less concerned with being true to the source material. Didn't really need to learn Abraham's backstory - it's 3 years into the zombie apocalypse, everybody's got a sob story. Eugene - tell me that last punch and faceplant into asphalt finished him, and this side-story, and now the group can get back together with Rick et al. 

The Beth episode was meh - though Carol's appearance at the end sets us up for something big in the next episode, we can hope.

Z-nation: continuing to be worth watching. I didn't miss DJ Quall's non-appearance in that last episode at all. As for Murphy... riding the knife edge of his humanity, eh? The guy in the red jacket - not cool. The last couple of episodes have dismissed with light comedy completely.... :-O


----------



## Macfury

Be thankful it didn't take as long to "out" Eugene as it seemed to in the comics. It was interminable. And yeah, Abraham's backstory was dull as dishwater. I actually forgot to finish watching the episode at one point, it was so tepid. The only highlight was the high pressure fire hose.

They haven't really used Citizen Z to any good effect. He needs to be more germaine to each story or limited to intros and outros only. I noticed Qualls in an old episode of LOST the other day.



CubaMark said:


> Having not read the comics, I'm perhaps less concerned with being true to the source material. Didn't really need to learn Abraham's backstory - it's 3 years into the zombie apocalypse, everybody's got a sob story. Eugene - tell me that last punch and faceplant into asphalt finished him, and this side-story, and now the group can get back together with Rick et al.
> 
> The Beth episode was meh - though Carol's appearance at the end sets us up for something big in the next episode, we can hope.
> 
> Z-nation: continuing to be worth watching. I didn't miss DJ Quall's non-appearance in that last episode at all. As for Murphy... riding the knife edge of his humanity, eh? The guy in the red jacket - not cool. The last couple of episodes have dismissed with light comedy completely.... :-O


----------



## fjnmusic

Carol and Daryl to the rescue! Interested to see how this one turns out, and who was under the white sheet Daryl was carrying. And what happens to Eberybody Hates Chris (Noah). Looks busy. 


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## Macfury

My interest has deflated with two flaccid storylines. Hope it picks up soon.


----------



## Macfury

Was there a budget cut at WD? Did they blow all the cash at Terminus? The last episode was atmospheric, but it seems like these episodes featuring only a few actors are being shot for cheap.


----------



## fjnmusic

I liked it. Really liked it. The shots of burnt out Atlanta alone are worth the price of admission, bit the storyline behind the rescue is turning out great. In my opinion.


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## Macfury

Yes, I liked CGI Atlanta, but the story seems unessential. I question a story arc that had everyone reuniting so that they could immediately split off again.


----------



## Macfury

Rewatched it and liked it a little better.


----------



## BReligion

I thought it was a great episode... a couple of obvious setup "duh moments". Carol putting the gun through the door first... OH COME ON  but other then that really really good. A little surprised that more wasn't made of the parking garage. There looked to be quite a few untouched cars in there....

But it was great that in the last 30 seconds of the show they answered the two previous episodes final moment cliff hangers. Who was in the bushes and what was up with Carol on the cart (trying not to give too many spoilers).

BReligion


----------



## fjnmusic

Explosive mid season finale. Everyone was crying around my place.


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Explosive mid season finale. Everyone was crying around my place.


What would have happened if Hamilton had won?


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> What would have happened if Hamilton had won?



I know it might sound unCanadian, but I really didn't care at all about the Football game. Yay Stamps.


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## CubaMark

I was expecting somewhat more of a massacre... but it was a sad enough ending. 

February, eh? Sigh.


----------



## Macfury

It was exciting enough, I suppose.


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> I was expecting somewhat more of a massacre... but it was a sad enough ending.
> 
> 
> 
> February, eh? Sigh.



Is it too soon for spoilers? I don't think anyone reads this anyway. I suspected Beth might be the casualty, given much speculation over on a Walking Dead site I go to, and given that Norman Reedus (Daryl) said he spent an hour crying before they filmed the scene. Mid season finales are not kind to the Green family.


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## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> I was expecting somewhat more of a massacre... but it was a sad enough ending.
> 
> February, eh? Sigh.


I was expecting a big hospital massacre as well--and not a really unnecessary death. I still don't really get what keeps that "hospital" going--what is their economy based on?

An odd mid-season finale in that there is no burning issue designed to keep viewers invested. With the Washington sideline kiboshed and Carol rescued, what more are we waiting for?

Season finale of _Z-Nation_ next week.


----------



## Macfury

The _Z-Nation_ season finale was pretty good!


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> The _Z-Nation_ season finale was pretty good!


Pretty _damn_ good! They've been picked up for a 2nd season... and I have no idea how they heck they're going to be able to do that, given how the season 1 finale ended. Ain't no Chevy van fast enough to get away from that!!!


----------



## Macfury

Some of those lab sequences were quite harrowing. Also, Citizen Z was far better integrated into the action.


----------



## BReligion

I didn't realize it was the season finale.

Citizen Z has his finger on the button of everything. He should be able to alter and changes things out to sea.


BRligion


----------



## Macfury

I suspect they didn't order a huge season of episodes on trial--and were probably surprised it faired so well.




BReligion said:


> I didn't realize it was the season finale.
> 
> Citizen Z has his finger on the button of everything. He should be able to alter and changes things out to sea.
> 
> 
> BRligion


----------



## Macfury

Been watching the remaining episodes in the new series. Some good, moody episodes mixed with some nice carnage. A few bones to pick--I'm having trouble keeping track of who is and isn't in Alexandria. Some characters who made it are nowhere to be seen. I believe that gutless reverend survived but haven't seen him in town at all. Last night's episode was certainly politically charged, with the obvious contempt that Rick and crew hold for the country club liberals who occupy Alexandria, despite their success in at least fortifying the town. Nice scene with Carol and the kid who catches her cadging some guns.


----------



## wonderings

Macfury said:


> Been watching the remaining episodes in the new series. Some good, moody episodes mixed with some nice carnage. A few bones to pick--I'm having trouble keeping track of who is and isn't in Alexandria. Some characters who made it are nowhere to be seen. I believe that gutless reverend survived but haven't seen him in town at all. Last night's episode was certainly politically charged, with the obvious contempt that Rick and crew hold for the country club liberals who occupy Alexandria, despite their success in at least fortifying the town. Nice scene with Carol and the kid who catches her cadging some guns.


I just watched the latest episode last night and was thinking the same thing about the Priest. Was watching with my cousin and we both had to scratch our heads and think back if he had become dinner for the zombies. I think the group is just so large that you cannot really focus on all of them, though you will still expect to see them, even if it is just a walk by. Still trying to figure out this community, though I am thinking it might be Rick and the gang that end up being the bad guys this season.

As for Z Nation, it is a guilty pleasure. It is so horrible, so terrible, that I want to watch more. They start off low on ammo, then they have ammo later on. Very cheesy, predictable and dumb, which does make for good watching sometime.


----------



## Macfury

Completely in agreement on _Z Nation_. I just about gave it up on that awful _Groundhog Day_ episode, but glad I stuck with it. I still laugh thinking of that gag with Murphy stealing that family's food, then sending the zombie dad upstairs to eat them. 

Alexandria has all the trappings of a community ready to get its collective ass kicked by zombies. It's no better fortified than the prison. If Rick and Co, are considered the bad guys for taking it over, it'll be a good kind of bad. The woman who runs the place may actually be hoping that this happens--just an out-there thought.


----------



## fjnmusic

Walking Dead feels like it's already jumped the shark. There's been no real conflict in the last episode, and no conflict means no story. I sure am concerned about whether Mrs Neudermeyer gets her pasta maker though.


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----------



## Macfury

If your definition of "jumping the shark" means "no active conflict in each episode" then by all means you should stop watching.

The rest of us are enjoying the masterful set-up for the tinderbox that's about to explode. The art of classic storytelling is not for everyone.



fjnmusic said:


> Walking Dead feels like it's already jumped the shark. There's been no real conflict in the last episode, and no conflict means no story. I sure am concerned about whether Mrs Neudermeyer gets her pasta maker though.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> If your definition of "jumping the shark" means "no active conflict in each episode" then by all means you should stop watching.
> 
> 
> 
> The rest of us are enjoying the masterful set-up for the tinderbox that's about to explode. The art of classic storytelling is not for everyone.



Hardly. I have been watching since the beginning and even enjoyed the Beth storyline, vilified as it was. I am aware of how they have been trying to get in-line with the comics, even though there are several differences, including characters like Daryl. I know Negan is coming at some point. But this last episode just pointed out be careful what you wish for: they have arrived at the promises land and compared to their prior trials and tribulations, this was like watching paint dry. I sure hope that some kind of conflict presents itself because they're supposed to be in the ASZ for a LOOOONG time.


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## Macfury

There area reality shows that are short on exposition but contain a LOT of conflict. Try those instead! I think you'll find them very suitable to your tastes.



fjnmusic said:


> Hardly. I have been watching since the beginning and even enjoyed the Beth storyline, vilified as it was. I am aware of how they have been trying to get in-line with the comics, even though there are several differences, including characters like Daryl. I know Negan is coming at some point. But this last episode just pointed out be careful what you wish for: they have arrived at the promises land and compared to their prior trials and tribulations, this was like watching paint dry. I sure hope that some kind of conflict presents itself because they're supposed to be in the ASZ for a LOOOONG time.


----------



## wonderings

fjnmusic said:


> Walking Dead feels like it's already jumped the shark. There's been no real conflict in the last episode, and no conflict means no story. I sure am concerned about whether Mrs Neudermeyer gets her pasta maker though.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There is a lot of character development, which I love in this show. I loved season 2, which was very slow compared to the first season. Lots of time to expand on the characters and give them depth. I like that zombies are not the serious threat anymore, for the most part. I love apocalypse stories, seeing how people survive, what they do and it always gets my mind thinking, what would I do? How would I react? So many shows are all nicely wrapped up in an episode or two, you get a few quirks of the characters, but it is left there. This current season is great, so much mystery to what this new community is, watching as Rick and Co live in this community, while observing and still working their own agenda, in a certain sense.


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## Macfury

Absolutely agreed. Just the business of surviving is fascinating. Many of these episodes would have been ruined by a pointless explosion of conflict.



wonderings said:


> There is a lot of character development, which I love in this show. I loved season 2, which was very slow compared to the first season. Lots of time to expand not the characters and give them depth. I like that zombies are not the serious threat anymore, for the most part. I love apocalypse stories, seeing how people survive, what they do and it always gets my mind thinking, what would I do? How would I react? So many shows are all nicely wrapped up in an episode or two, you get a few quirks of the characters, but it is left there. This current season is great, so much mystery to what this new community is, watching as Rick and Co live in this community, while observing and still working their own agenda, in a certain sense.


----------



## fjnmusic

Carol's intimidation of the kids was great, as was Daryl slurping spaghetti and Sasha's sudden outburst. Rick's sudden letting down his guard and kissing the new chick seemed really out of place after the Governor, the Termites, the Claimers, the hospital and all that time on the road. But the episode as a whole reminded me of dying and going to heaven, except heaven turns out to be a boring place where nothing exciting happens. Be careful what you wish for.


----------



## Macfury

I recommend this show:

The Leftovers

Lots of people punching walls and randomly yelling at each other and beating each other up. More conflict than you can shake a stick at!



fjnmusic said:


> Carol's intimidation of the kids was great, as was Daryl slurping spaghetti and Sasha's sudden outburst. Rick's sudden letting down his guard and kissing the new chick seemed really out of place after the Governor, the Termites, the Claimers, the hospital and all that time on the road. But the episode as a whole reminded me of dying and going to heaven, except heaven turns out to be a boring place where nothing exciting happens. Be careful what you wish for.


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## fjnmusic

Now THAT was a powder keg and a half.


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## Macfury

Holy hell! Reminded me of the gory finish of _Day of the Dead_ from the original trilogy.

That reverend needs fixing.


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## CubaMark




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## fjnmusic

Well now that was more like it. Alexandria ain't quite the safe zone if was cut out to be. And Rick may turn out to be the biggest threat. 


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## Macfury

I didn't enjoy that episode much. Lots of empty conflict and recycling of situations. That mawkish sequence with the parents listening to that CD was almost comical. The senator is becoming a bore and her husband is a cipher. The business with Sasha was overwrought and didn't work well for a character we know next to nothing about and the Michonne flashbacks were embarrassingly instructive. Jessie's sudden acceptance of having Rick kill her husband wasn't remotely presented as believable. Having Michonne clock Rick at the end of the episode smacked of further stalling and histrionics--if this is not part of some broader plan, it essentially kills her character as believable. 

A bit of a disappointment overall.


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## CubaMark

Given our diametrically opposed perspectives on pretty much everything else, it's a bit of amazing that you & I agree so completely in this thread.

Agreed completely - for the penultimate episode of the season, this was a mega-letdown. Let's hope the finale is all sorts of horrific (in a good way).

And... when does Z Nation return?


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## Macfury

CM, you and I could talk zombies any time. _Z-Nation_ has been renewed, but no announce date yet.


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## John Clay

Macfury said:


> CM, you and I could talk zombies any time. _Z-Nation_ has been renewed, but no announce date yet.


I can't believe Z-Nation was renewed. It's terrible.

I can't wait.


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## Macfury

John Clay said:


> I can't believe Z-Nation was renewed. It's terrible.
> 
> I can't wait.


Heh!

This looks promising:

Exclusive: Craig Engler Talks Z Nation and What's Ahead in Season 2 - Dread Central



> With the show now on DVD, we took the time to talk with one of its creators, Craig Engler, about what came to pass as well as what’s to come.
> 
> “It’s super-important for us to come up with new zombies and zombie deaths,” says Engler of the series’ main attraction. “We talk about it a lot. We talk about what kinds of zombies there can be. Our show has introduced several different kinds of the living dead, my favorite being the nuclear zombies. In Season 2 we have some really cool things planned. Stuff people haven’t seen before. It’s very important for us to have good and fun zombie kills. That’s what people look forward to. If you just kill the zombies the same way every time, it gets a little boring. We’re always thinking like, ‘Okay, what’s in the environment? If you have an unarmed character in a particular environment, what’s he gonna grab?’ We go into things like what would be around and what would be fun?!?”
> 
> He adds, *“Syfy keeps pushing us to do more and go farther [in terms of the show’s gore]. I’m not going to use the word ‘tasteful’ because I don’t think that’s really applicable to our show, but as long as it’s done well and in the spirit of the show, they’re totally happy. In fact, one of my friends is the network executive who we deal with; he literally just sent me an e-mail yesterday which read, ‘Keep pushing it! We want cool, big, crazy stuff.’ What other studio would tell you to keep pushing the envelope? I was like, ‘Yes! We will do that!”*


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## fjnmusic

Speaking of Walkers, Roamers, Biters, Rotters, Zombies or what have you—this pic is about as cool as it gets.


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## CubaMark

Whoa. I'd love to see Bill do a guest role on TWD..... Did any of you see his film last year, "St. Vincent"? 





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


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## John Clay

CubaMark said:


> Whoa. I'd love to see Bill do a guest role on TWD..... Did any of you see his film last year, "St. Vincent"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


I did - thought it was a great movie. I'm not sure how well he'd do in a guest role on TWD. He's much more of a comedic actor than a dramatic one.


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## Macfury

Murray would be the only Walker looking straight at the camera. Years ago, comedian Chris Elliott was featured in a straight cameo in Michael Mann's _Manhunter_, the first film about Hannibal Lechter. The theatre audience was clearly disoriented by it and it took several minutes for everyone to get back into the film.


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## BReligion

He was one of the highlights of Zombieland. So he is no stranger to the Zombieverse 

BReligion


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## heavyall

Macfury said:


> I didn't enjoy that episode much. Lots of empty conflict and recycling of situations. That mawkish sequence with the parents listening to that CD was almost comical. The senator is becoming a bore and her husband is a cipher. The business with Sasha was overwrought and didn't work well for a character we know next to nothing about and the Michonne flashbacks were embarrassingly instructive. Jessie's sudden acceptance of having Rick kill her husband wasn't remotely presented as believable.
> 
> A bit of a disappointment overall.


I definitely agree. These "must have conflict!" episodes hurt the overall story. I think they are listening too much to the people who complain about the episodes that actually have story and character development.

The only "good" development is that it's now fully clear that Rick is no longer to be given any level of leadership or authority by anyone. 




> Having Michonne clock Rick at the end of the episode smacked of further stalling and histrionics--if this is not part of some broader plan, it essentially kills her character as believable.


This I don't agree with. If anything, it elevated her to a more primary role. She's no longer just doing what the group is, she's showing leadership.


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## Macfury

My beef is that she can no longer go back to being a group member in any believable fashion. Who would trust her at this point not to simply do what she felt like at any given moment?



heavyall said:


> This I don't agree with. If anything, it elevated her to a more primary role. She's no longer just doing what the group is, she's showing leadership.


----------



## fjnmusic

I think Michonne had to clock out Rick before he said too much and ruined it for everyone. This is the best place they could find, resource wise, and it's important not to blow it. Having said that, I'm not sure how much longer Deanna will remain leader. She's not firing on all cylinders.


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## heavyall

I disagree. In order for the group to remain in Alexandria, it's vitally important that they make a statement along the lines of: "he may be one of us, but even we can't condone this behavior". We know that Rick can't be trusted anymore, whereas (as far as we know) Michonne can. By taking him out, she's saving the rest of them. I think this not only cements her membership in the group, it most likely makes her the de facto leader.



Macfury said:


> My beef is that she can no longer go back to being a group member in any believable fashion. Who would trust her at this point not to simply do what she felt like at any given moment?


----------



## Macfury

Yeah, that's great if you're going to go with the Michonne show from here on in. Once Rick spilled the beans about his intentions, it was time to take over, whether it was too early to state that or not. Bonking him on the skull risks having all of them exiled, including Michonne. 

However, we all know that Rick will remain group leader--and that Michonne is now only good as a character for doing what she thinks his best for herself.



heavyall said:


> By taking him out, she's saving the rest of them. I think this not only cements her membership in the group,_ it most likely makes her the de facto leader._


----------



## fjnmusic

I don't think so, Macfury. Michonne wasn't doing it for personal gain; she was doing it to show the admittedly sheltered Alexdrians that the newcomers could still be trusted and that Rick was out of line, which he was. He provoked that fight. He just ended up looking like a crazy person, waving his gun at everyone. You have to be smarter and more civil than that to live in this place. Also, there's not much of a story without a conflict of some sort going on. Michonne did the right thing for the good of the group, not for sellfish reasons. 


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> I don't think so, Macfury. Michonne wasn't doing it for personal gain; she was doing it to show the admittedly sheltered Alexdrians that the newcomers could still be trusted and that Rick was out of line, which he was.


She did it because she's buying in to Alexandria. 

It was completely unrealistic for the Senator to appoint Rick as the Sheriff of that town after a couple of hours of getting to know him. After Rick's out-of-place behaviour, Michonne had two reasonable choices for survival--take over the town by force now or take it over later. At this point, nobody is going to persuade the townsfolk to hand over the reigns to any of them, so the chance has been blown.



fjnmusic said:


> Also, there's not much of a story without a conflict of some sort going on.


I disagree. You can't add conflict like some sort of magic ingredient and expect it to work. That satisfies only the debased tastes of conflict junkies.


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## fjnmusic

Season Finale. Now that kicked ass.


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## CubaMark

fjnmusic said:


> Season Finale. Now that kicked ass.


Not bad at all. They did a nice job of slowly ramping up the tension right through to the end. Some interesting character development.

IN any case - will hold off for a bit on further comment until everyone has seen the show...


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## fjnmusic

Is it safe to talk about the sequel Fear the Walking Dead yet? Supposed to be set in California at the beginning of the outbreak.


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## Macfury

*SPOILER ALERT:*

I thought it was relatively weakly written and rambling episode. The problem with Alexandria is that it was populated by out-of-touch country club liberals, but the writers couldn't content themselves with that. They had to ramp it up to _incompetent _country club liberals, and finally on this episode _murderous_ incompetent country club liberals. Rick wanted to kill the abusive husband as much because he fancied his wife as anything else--now the writers have to make him right by turning the husband into a throat-slashing maniac.

The minister's mewlings were tiresome. The big reveal is that HE is responsible for the death of various people? I believed him the first time he said that a dozen episodes ago. 

Sasha's arc remains unfulfilling and not befitting a character who has had no spotlight prior to this reckoning.

I was happy to see Morgan again, but not so happy to see him turned into a mixed-martial arts superhero. 

The trap set piece at the food outlet was OK, but I am getting a little tired of one or two people surrounded by 18,000 roamers and simply bullying their way out of it. I did like the insistence that both characters were going to run for the gate--no solo heroics from Darryl. The heads and necks of zombies appeared particularly soft and pliable in this episode--they're coming off more like ripe cantaloupes than heads.

The Wolves? Just another group of predators in the baddy-of-the-month club.

I enjoyed watching the episode, but it was thematically weak and repetitive.


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> *SPOILER ALERT:*
> 
> 
> 
> I thought it was relatively weakly written and rambling episode. The problem with Alexandria is that it was populated by out-of-touch country club liberals, but the writers couldn't content themselves with that. They had to ramp it up to _incompetent _country club liberals, and finally on this episode _murderous_ incompetent country club liberals. Rick wanted to kill the abusive husband as much because he fancied his wife as anything else--now the writers have to make him right by turning the husband into a throat-slashing maniac.
> 
> 
> 
> The minister's mewlings were tiresome. The big reveal is that HE is responsible for the death of various people? I believed him the first time he said that a dozen episodes ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Sasha's arc remains unfulfilling and not befitting a character who has had no spotlight prior to this reckoning.
> 
> 
> 
> I was happy to see Morgan again, but not so happy to see him tun into a mixed-martial arts superhero.
> 
> 
> 
> The trap set piece at the food outlet was OK, but I am getting a little tired of one or two people surrounded by 18,000 roamers and simply bullying their way out of it. I did like the insistence that both characters were going to run for the gate--no solo heroics from Darryl. The heads and necks of zombies appeared particularly soft and pliable in this episode--they're coming off more like ripe cantaloupes than heads.
> 
> 
> 
> The Wolves? Just another group of predators in the baddy-of-the-month club.
> 
> 
> 
> I enjoyed watching the episode, but it was thematically weak and repetitive.



I dunno, Macfury. Some of those country club liberals could have just as easily been republicans or even non-voting types.

Agreed about the squishy heads and most of your other observances, though it didn't take away from the story for me. All the womenfolk at my house screamed for joy when Glenn reemerged, even though the odds of it were highly unlikely. Just one thing: since Abe was holding Pets's head to the ground, isn't there a chance he would have at least lost a finger when Rick fired?


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> I dunno, Macfury. Some of those country club liberals could have just as easily been republicans or even non-voting types.


Their attitude toward punishment, execution and exile was what identified them as liberals. Clearly, many have crossed over now!

Glenn's time is not here... yet!


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## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Rick wanted to kill the abusive husband as much because he fancied his wife as anything else--now the writers have to make him right by turning the husband into a throat-slashing maniac.


Well, to be fair to the writers, he was already fella with a long history of physically abusing his wife and child. Then Rick whipped his ass. The community forced him into a different house, and - as we saw following his little encounter with Carol - he was not at all pleased with this. Add to that a penchant for the bottle, and... no stretch.



Macfury said:


> I was happy to see Morgan again, but not so happy to see him turned into a mixed-martial arts superhero.


A truly interesting (and long overdue) reunion. The last time they met, the roles were arguably reversed. Will Morgan tame the new Rick Grimes (aka "Crazy Rick")?



Macfury said:


> The heads and necks of zombies appeared particularly soft and pliable in this episode--they're coming off more like ripe cantaloupes than heads.


I do think the special effects dudes, and the writers, need to give this a little more attention. Sure there are walkers out there who've been disintegrating for a long while now, and perhaps their bodies are extra marshmallowy, but the ease with which people are smushing skulls is a bit off. I'm surprised that more folks haven't gotten their machetes, etc., stuck in a walker head here and there... it would also up the tension in some of those fights...

*fjnmusic*: I'm ready! An expanded look at post-zombie America will be welcome.


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## Macfury

Rick's point was that he needed to be killed for being a violent, abusive man. Once he slits the throat of the senator's husband, it no longer matters if Rick was right about the former--he would need to be executed over the murder.



CubaMark said:


> Well, to be fair to the writers, he was already fella with a long history of physically abusing his wife and child. Then Rick whipped his ass. The community forced him into a different house, and - as we saw following his little encounter with Carol - he was not at all pleased with this. Add to that a penchant for the bottle, and... no stretch.


I'm curious about the new series as well.


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## heavyall

One of the best episodes in the entire run of the series, so many great things to look forward to new season!

I found where they went with Michonne to be very interesting (much different than either Macfury or I thought they were doing). I really like that it's getting down to anyone who is still alive is capable of anything -- if they were able to survive this long, by definition that means whatever good might have been in them is gone.

I was a little surprised by the Senator wanting an immediate execution, rather than making a show of a trial and official sentence to one.


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## Macfury

heavyall said:


> I found where they went with Michonne to be very interesting (much different than either Macfury or I thought they were doing).


I suppose they covered it by having Rick (for whatever reason) declaring that he was out of line in the last episode. Unfortunately, Michonne's intervention meant that he did not even have the defense that he was not going to shoot. As the senator said, it appeared that only Michonne had stopped him from firing.

Either way, after that, I would not have allowed him to walk around loose in Alexandria.



heavyall said:


> I was a little surprised by the Senator wanting an immediate execution, rather than making a show of a trial and official sentence to one.


This smacks of rushed exposition. It was the fastest way to move to: "I was all wrong and you're right" without actually dealing with it on philosophical terms.


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## CubaMark

And what do we gather from Michonne's reflective moment at the end of the episode?


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## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> And what do we gather from Michonne's reflective moment at the end of the episode?


Which moment was that?


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## CubaMark

There is a post-credits scene. Here's the summary from Wikipedia:

"In a post-credits scene, Michonne is seen contemplating mounting her katana back on the wall, but ultimately decides to carry it. Back at the the Wolves' trap, the red poncho survivor, now a walker, stumbles past the car in which Daryl and Aaron had taken shelter, upon which has been written "WOLVES NOT FAR"."​


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## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> There is a post-credits scene. Here's the summary from Wikipedia:
> 
> 
> 
> "In a post-credits scene, Michonne is seen contemplating mounting her katana back on the wall, but ultimately decides to carry it. Back at the the Wolves' trap, the red poncho survivor, now a walker, stumbles past the car in which Daryl and Aaron had taken shelter, upon which has been written "WOLVES NOT FAR"."​



I take it that she has decided the small town life isn't exactly what she's cut out for, and she's gonna be needing that katana after all.


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## Macfury

Alexandria won't work out long-term.



CubaMark said:


> There is a post-credits scene. Here's the summary from Wikipedia:
> 
> "In a post-credits scene, Michonne is seen contemplating mounting her katana back on the wall, but ultimately decides to carry it. Back at the the Wolves' trap, the red poncho survivor, now a walker, stumbles past the car in which Daryl and Aaron had taken shelter, upon which has been written "WOLVES NOT FAR"."​


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## fjnmusic

Alexandria does work out for many issues (or what will become seasons) in the comics. Even when Negan comes.


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Alexandria does work out for many issues (or what will become seasons) in the comics. Even when Negan comes.


It will not work out as a peaceful place.


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> It will not work out as a peaceful place.



"Peaceful" is a relative term. It would be no less peaceful than the farm or the prison, plus you have those nice suburban McMansions, electricity and running water. It may not be paradise, but it's about the best they've seen so far, infrastructure wise.


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## Macfury

I don't want to give too much away for non-readers of the comic book. 



fjnmusic said:


> "Peaceful" is a relative term. It would be no less peaceful than the farm or the prison, plus you have those nice suburban McMansions, electricity and running water. It may not be paradise, but it's about the best they've seen so far, infrastructure wise.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## BReligion

Macfury said:


> I don't want to give too much away for non-readers of the comic book.


Thanks!
I am reading the books, but always staying behind the TV series. Like going in fresh, or trying too t least.


BReligion


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## Macfury

_Z-Nation_ returns in September!


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## Macfury

Looks like_ Fear the Walking Dead_ debuts in August!


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## fjnmusic

Walking Dead Season 6 Preview from Comic-Con 
http://youtu.be/Va1UPrFXHKA


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## fjnmusic

This looks good! Trailer for Fear the Walking Dead, premieres Aug 23 (6 episodes) leading up to WD Oct 12.
http://youtu.be/WDxew5SguVw


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## IllusionX

I can't wait to see this!


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## Macfury

All of the various trailers look better than I thought they might--and no comic book to spoil things!


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## BReligion

fjnmusic said:


> This looks good! Trailer for Fear the Walking Dead, premieres Aug 23 (6 episodes) leading up to WD Oct 12.
> http://youtu.be/WDxew5SguVw


Totally stoked for this.

I was afraid of it when I first heard rumours of another series on the West Coast... thought it was just going to be a bad rip/spin-off series (a-la CSI). Then discovered the timeline of it and it's Kirkman doing it with some of the same production staff as the current series. 
Also there's the fact that Kirkman has said along the lines of "they shall never meet" which totally makes me happy. In my fear of the rip/spin-series was one moving up the east coast, one up the west cost, both going to make sharp turns and meet in Idaho or something lame like that 

Also not sure if you remember, but Walking Dead Season 1 was also 6 Episodes.


BReligion


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## Macfury

This one has already received a commitment for a second season of episodes.


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## fjnmusic

BReligion said:


> Totally stoked for this.
> 
> 
> 
> I was afraid of it when I first heard rumours of another series on the West Coast... thought it was just going to be a bad rip/spin-off series (a-la CSI). Then discovered the timeline of it and it's Kirkman doing it with some of the same production staff as the current series.
> 
> Also there's the fact that Kirkman has said along the lines of "they shall never meet" which totally makes me happy. In my fear of the rip/spin-series was one moving up the east coast, one up the west cost, both going to make sharp turns and meet in Idaho or something lame like that
> 
> 
> 
> Also not sure if you remember, but Walking Dead Season 1 was also 6 Episodes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BReligion



Yes it was, and so was Breaking Bad for that matter. Nothing wrong with writing a novella before you shoot for a full novel.


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## fjnmusic

Watched five minutes of Z Nation. I hope it gets better, because the first five minutes were like watching someone else playing a video game. I like Augustus Hill though, and also the weeny guy from the Simple Plan video and the undercover cop in Breaking Bad.


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## SINC

fjnmusic said:


> Watched five minutes of Z Nation. I hope it gets better, because the first five minutes were like watching someone else playing a video game.


That is the reaction I get from watching anything to do with zombies. Cannot grasp the purpose of such stuff, but each to their own I guess.


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Watched five minutes of Z Nation. I hope it gets better, because the first five minutes were like watching someone else playing a video game. I like Augustus Hill though, and also the weeny guy from the Simple Plan video and the undercover cop in Breaking Bad.


Z-Nation takes a hard turn after the first couple of episodes. There are some dull episodes, but a few setpieces that are pretty darned amusing.


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## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Z-Nation takes a hard turn after the first couple of episodes. There are some dull episodes, but a few setpieces that are pretty darned amusing.


*fjnmusic*, *SINC*, take note: _MacFury and I agree on something!_

ZNation has its moments of cheese, but it really develops well. Much darker in places than you'd expect. Give it a few more episodes.


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## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> *fjnmusic*, *SINC*, take note: _MacFury and I agree on something!_
> 
> ZNation has its moments of cheese, but it really develops well. Much darker in places than you'd expect. Give it a few more episodes.


Yep--as far as this stuff goes, we're pretty much in synch!


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## Macfury

One sly _Z Nation_ in-joke in the recent _Sharknado 3_.


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## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> One sly _Z Nation_ in-joke in the recent _Sharknado 3_.


NO. You are NOT going to make me watch "Sharknado 2" just for an in-joke. I have my standards! 

When does FEAR start again? Soon?

*EDIT*: August 23rd.


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## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> NO. You are NOT going to make me watch "Sharknado 2" just for an in-joke. I have my standards!
> 
> When does FEAR start again? Soon?
> 
> *EDIT*: August 23rd.


Not _Sharknado 2_, _Sharknado 3_!

_Fear_ begins on August 23rd


----------



## fjnmusic

Looking forward to Fear. I really enjoyed Kim Dickens as Chef in The Tremé. The previews look pretty awesome—still has that freshness that's sometimes missing from TWD—Original Recipe. 


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## BReligion

There was a 10 minute peek into Fear the Walking Dead on AMC the other day.
I am sure they are going to squeeze it in again during the Marathons they are running leading up to August 23rd.

Totally excited about the premier of Fear....

BReligion


----------



## BReligion

Saw a commercial last night...

Z Nation Season 2 Premier's Friday September 11th. 
(yes it's a link to the SyFy.com page, but Space in Canada had a commercial on TV promoting it at the sametime, their website doesn't mention it yet)

BReligion


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## Macfury

BReligion said:


> Saw a commercial last night...
> 
> Z Nation Season 2 Premier's Friday September 11th.
> (yes it's a link to the SyFy.com page, but Space in Canada had a commercial on TV promoting it at the sametime, their website doesn't mention it yet)
> 
> BReligion


Finally found a promo after watching several fake promos--including this one:





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Macfury

_Fear_ held my attention and had a good atmosphere and nice, subdued pace. However, I did not like any of the lead characters. The parents need to be slapped about the head and neck.


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> _Fear_ held my attention and had a good atmosphere and nice, subdued pace. However, I did not like any of the lead characters. The parents need to be slapped about the head and neck.



I quite enjoyed it. Definitely shooting for more of a youth audience. Nick/Tom Riddle reminded me a lot of Johnny Depp in Benny and June. This had a great amount of suspense and some delicious dramatic irony, especially for fans off the other series who already known the illness is airborne and you need a head shot to put down "the infected." I think AMC has another winner on its hands.


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## fjnmusic

BReligion said:


> There was a 10 minute peek into Fear the Walking Dead on AMC the other day.
> 
> I am sure they are going to squeeze it in again during the Marathons they are running leading up to August 23rd.
> 
> 
> 
> Totally excited about the premier of Fear....
> 
> 
> 
> BReligion



So what did you think?


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## Macfury

Thinking about it further, I would say that the plot points in the pilot bordered on the absurd--from the parents playing amateur detective ("Something bad happened here!"--twice) to the police failing to do much of anything normal following the druggie's car accident. The scene with the teacher explaining Jack London to a black high school student at Grade 3 level was an embarrassment bordering on racism. Dropping big fat hints about man vs. nature and chaos theory was also quite weak.



> This had a great amount of suspense and some delicious dramatic irony, especially for fans off the other series who already known the illness is airborne and you need a head shot to put down "the infected."


fjn--I don't understand how the airborne nature of the disease is dramatic irony. The whole thing about the headshot is pretty tired. People should have figured that out in a day or two.

_Benny and *Joon*. _


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Thinking about it further, I would say that the plot points in the pilot bordered on the absurd--from the parents playing amateur detective ("Something bad happened here!"--twice) to the police failing to do much of anything normal following the druggie's car accident. The scene with the teacher explaining Jack London to a black high school student at Grade 3 level was an embarrassment bordering on racism. Dropping big fat hints about man vs. nature and chaos theory was also quite weak.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fjn--I don't understand how the airborne nature of the disease is dramatic irony. The whole thing about the headshot is pretty tired. People should have figured that out in a day or two.
> 
> 
> 
> _Benny and *Joon*. _



It's dramatic irony for fans of the other series, who didn't find out the virus was airborne until the end of the second season (although Jenner divulged it to Rick at the end of the first season). In other words, it was quite a while before WD fans realized you didn't need to get bit to be infected; you just had to die. In FTWD they have no idea what's going on yet...but we do. Hence the dramatic irony.

P.S. I thought I had put Joon. My bad. All he needs is the little hat and he's have the look down.

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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> It's dramatic irony for fans of the other series, who didn't find out the virus was airborne until the end of the second season (although Jenner divulged it to Rick at the end of the first season). In other words, it was quite a while before WD fans realized you didn't need to get bit to be infected; you just had to die. In FTWD they have no idea what's going on yet...but we do. Hence the dramatic irony.


I suppose it's dramatic irony of a sort. Yes, we know that the condition is airborne. However, there's no real difference for the characters if:
1) all dead walk, or 
2) if all dead walk because a virus is airborne.


----------



## BReligion

fjnmusic said:


> So what did you think?


I enjoyed it. I think it will take an episode or two, but I think it will be good if it continues on its upward pace.



Macfury said:


> Thinking about it further, I would say that the plot points in the pilot bordered on the absurd--from the parents playing amateur detective ("Something bad happened here!"--twice) to the police failing to do much of anything normal following the druggie's car accident. The scene with the teacher explaining Jack London to a black high school student at Grade 3 level was an embarrassment bordering on racism. Dropping big fat hints about man vs. nature and chaos theory was also quite weak.
> 
> The whole thing about the headshot is pretty tired. People should have figured that out in a day or two.


The amateur detective part.. meh. Travis wanting to go to the drug den to see if Nick is really crazy.. okay (compensate his own kid, make good with the new womans kids I get it). The mom insisting on seeing it... I guess okay (less so than Travis).. the something happened here.. I think is just setting up the "... I've got a bad feeling about this..." that looms over the entire series. At some point people just stop saying it, but this is the beginning right? 

I think the police scene, the school scenes (in class, metal detectors etc) is just setting up stereotypical East LA. 

The headshot thing, however I totally disagree with. Yes we all know that, and it is played out for us. Other then Father Gabrielle, I call BS in the WD storyline if anyone doesn't know about the headshot at the point in time where we are. Remember this is as it's unfolding. These whack jobs may be on bath salts, or meth or who knows what all. Police are trained to go for the biggest target (torso). No one would ever do a headshot in real life. Also keep in mind the Walking Deadverse is one that George A Romero never made Night of the Living Dead (nor any Zombie horror genre after). So especially at this point in the game, this is all new unheard of territory.

I did find it a little "fun" during the show to go "oh that old man in the next bed, yup he's about to get up and eat you... " and saying things like to the daughters bf "Oh your going to die badly, I just know it". That groan, yup he's about to become a walker.. Don't get me wrong they are totally playing that up but it was fun.



Macfury said:


> I suppose it's dramatic irony of a sort. Yes, we know that the condition is airborne. However, there's no real difference for the characters if:
> 1) all dead walk, or
> 2) if all dead walk because a virus is airborne.


Absolutely there is! Remember early on in the series, The dead had risen. No one knows why or how. They just knew people got sick. All the characters knew for sure was a bite or a scratch meant you got infected. You ran the fever, eventually died from it and got back up with a thirst for brains  
For the most part, no one ever encountered anyone who died of "natural causes" and just got back up.

Overall it was okay. It didn't blow my socks off, but I wasn't sorely disappointed either. I think it has potential, I kind of saw last night like the Preflight safety speech on the airplane. It's the setup boring stuff that we have to go through to establish the story before you get to your destination... now that the first couple Domino's have fallen hang on, it's going to be a fun ride.

BReligion


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## Macfury

BReligion said:


> The headshot thing, however I totally disagree with. Yes we all know that, and it is played out for us. Other then Father Gabrielle, I call BS in the WD storyline if anyone doesn't know about the headshot at the point in time where we are. Remember this is as it's unfolding. These whack jobs may be on bath salts, or meth or who knows what all. Police are trained to go for the biggest target (torso). No one would ever do a headshot in real life. Also keep in mind the Walking Deadverse is one that George A Romero never made Night of the Living Dead (nor any Zombie horror genre after). So especially at this point in the game, this is all new unheard of territory.


I understand that, but when an army of kooks keep coming after you, you're going to try a head shot pretty soon. "Ahhh-that did it!"



BReligion said:


> Absolutely there is! Remember early on in the series, The dead had risen. No one knows why or how. They just knew people got sick. All the characters knew for sure was a bite or a scratch meant you got infected. You ran the fever, eventually died from it and got back up with a thirst for brains
> For the most part, no one ever encountered anyone who died of "natural causes" and just got back up.


So the difference is that eventually someone dies of natural causes and rises.You will still 
avoid bites and scratches like the plague--so to speak.



BReligion said:


> Overall it was okay. It didn't blow my socks off, but I wasn't sorely disappointed either. I think it has potential, I kind of saw last night like the Preflight safety speech on the airplane. It's the setup boring stuff that we have to go through to establish the story before you get to your destination... now that the first couple Domino's have fallen hang on, it's going to be a fun ride.


I didn't find it boring--just found the characters unlikable. Emo Phillips must die.


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> So the difference is that eventually someone dies of natural causes and rises.You will still avoid bites and scratches like the plague--so to speak.


True.. I would suspect at the time of those risings however, you would assume they were bitten/scratched somewhere and you didn't know about it. I mean that has been the folly so many times of people who actually were injured and hiding it because they A) don't want to admit it, B) don't want to be cast out/killed... and really you aren't going to take the time right away to check them as they are trying to bite your face off. 
Maybe after but, what would ever lead you to assume everyone (yourself included) is already infected and doomed. You would be in denial for a long time...You feel fine right? You can't be sick right? Maybe somewhere around the end of season 2.. erm 83 days into the apocalypse you will come to that conclusion hehe 




Macfury said:


> I didn't find it boring--just found the characters unlikable. Emo Phillips must die


Boring isn't the right term.. maybe just over attention to details to drive home the point making some of the characters unlikeable... the daughter irks me the most.

BReligion


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## Macfury

[


BReligion said:


> Maybe somewhere around the end of season 2.. erm 83 days into the apocalypse you will come to that conclusion hehe


You'd only have to experience it once!



BReligion said:


> ... the daughter irks me the most.


Snot-nosed punk!


----------



## fjnmusic

One can overthink these things. As a suspenseful story in and of itself, I thought it was pretty good. Some of the filming techniques are obviously Walking Dead style, because they know how to create suspense. You should check out some of the webisodes on AMC to see how they can create intriguing Walking Dead stories using different characters.


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## Macfury

I honestly thought that the pilot underthought these things, considering the depth of experience the creators have with the premise.

I liked the webisodes.



fjnmusic said:


> One can overthink these things. As a suspenseful story in and of itself, I thought it was pretty good. Some of the filming techniques are obviously Walking Dead style, because they know how to create suspense. You should check out some of the webisodes on AMC to see how they can create intriguing Walking Dead stories using different characters.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CubaMark

Not bad, there is potential. The proverbial manure is just about to fall into the ventilator, so I expect episode 2 to ratchet up the pace a bit.

Interesting that none of you commented on the hospital scene. Weren't we all waiting for the fella in the next bed to start a-Walkin' ? 

And I agree with fjnmusic about the Nick/Benny similarities. Partly the clothes he snagged from his hospital roommate, and part his curious walk. I liked it.


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> Not bad, there is potential. The proverbial manure is just about to fall into the ventilator, so I expect episode 2 to ratchet up the pace a bit.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting that none of you commented on the hospital scene. Weren't we all waiting for the fella in the next bed to start a-Walkin' ?
> 
> 
> 
> And I agree with fjnmusic about the Nick/Benny similarities. Partly the clothes he snagged from his hospital roommate, and part his curious walk. I liked it.



Thank you! I was just waiting for him to kick his hat or stick some forks into some dinner rolls.


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## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Interesting that none of you commented on the hospital scene. Weren't we all waiting for the fella in the next bed to start a-Walkin' ?


It's just that I've seen so many variations on that scene over the years. Get up or don't get up--just do it!


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## Macfury

I liked tonight's episode a little better. Less Emo Phillips is good. I liked the mother a little better, but not sure about dad--I still want to kick his ass for being a mealy mouthed boob. The spookiest sequence involved hearing that moaning over the school PA system. It actually sent a brief chill down my spine.


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## BReligion

Yeah episode was good. Definitely starting to ramp up. Agreed about Travis need to pick up or die off.. Daughter however wins most annoying character of the episode (again). School scene was good. Also loved the neighbour being jumped in the deflated bouncy castle... Setting up the fall of the world nicely.... Oh and I loved...LOVED the fact they showed early on the cop loading his cruiser with water and being short to the woman about the traffic. Leads to believe the police (and powers at be) know something is going on. A part of me really hopes that they don't reveal truly what it is that caused the apocalypse.

BReligion


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## Macfury

BReligion said:


> Yeah episode was good. Definitely starting to ramp up. Agreed about Travis need to pick up or die off.. Daughter however wins most annoying character of the episode (again). School scene was good. Also loved the neighbour being jumped in the deflated bouncy castle... Setting up the fall of the world nicely.... Oh and I loved...LOVED the fact they showed early on the cop loading his cruiser with water and being short to the woman about the traffic. Leads to believe the police (and powers at be) know something is going on. A part of me really hopes that they don't reveal truly what it is that caused the apocalypse.
> 
> BReligion


The cop scenes reminded me of the original _Dawn of the Dead_--cops looking for water bottles, food and cigarettes to load onto their patrol boat as they make off.

Interesting to see the deliberately international cast pretending to be Americans. I wonder if the production money actually comes from New Zealand, Australia and England to "buy" positions for international cast members.


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## BReligion

Macfury said:


> Interesting to see the deliberately international cast pretending to be Americans. I wonder if the production money actually comes from New Zealand, Australia and England to "buy" positions for international cast members.


Don't know but I do know Andrew Lincoln (Rick), Lauren Cohan (Maggie), David Morrissey (the governor) and Lennie James (Morgan) of the Walking Dead are all from the UK and do a damn fine job of suppressing their accents!

BReligion


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## Macfury

BReligion said:


> Don't know but I do know Andrew Lincoln (Rick), Lauren Cohan (Maggie), David Morrissey (the governor) and Lennie James (Morgan) of the Walking Dead are all from the UK and do a damn fine job of suppressing their accents!
> 
> BReligion


Yep, they're all fine. And Americans are often really quite horrible doing British accents, I might add.

I saw Morrissey in an American horror film pre-Walking Dead and he was already doing the southern guy.


----------



## fjnmusic

Fear the Walking Dead returns tonight with Episode 3.


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## Macfury

Anyone watch the _Z-Nation_ Season Two premiere?


----------



## IllusionX

Macfury said:


> Anyone watch the _Z-Nation_ Season Two premiere?


I've got the first season, and have yet to watch it.

Hey, should z-nation get its own thread, instead of hijacking the walking dead's?

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## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Anyone watch the _Z-Nation_ Season Two premiere?


I enjoyed it - and half-and-half dug how they resolved the imminent crisis (the arctic part, which then set up a second threat). But - well, is it ridiculous to talk about stretching the boundaries of belief in a Zombie show? Let's just say, the rest of our brave troop got out of the hairy situation a little too cleanly. 

Nice to see some reunions, some funky Z kills, and the plot getting back onto the California trail... the bounty twist is going to be a pain in the ass, though...

As escapism, I'll take it.


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## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> I enjoyed it - and half-and-half dug how they resolved the imminent crisis (the arctic part, which then set up a second threat). But - well, is it ridiculous to talk about stretching the boundaries of belief in a Zombie show? Let's just say, the rest of our brave troop got out of the hairy situation a little too cleanly.
> 
> Nice to see some reunions, some funky Z kills, and the plot getting back onto the California trail... the bounty twist is going to be a pain in the ass, though...
> 
> As escapism, I'll take it.


Murphy was golden. I laughed at his clear delight in presenting that awful zombie burlesque. 

I agree about the bounty hunting--it presents a little too much of a repetitive threat cycle. It also puts "Citizen Z" at clear odds with the strategy of the core group. And what good is he with a bunch of smashed up screens?


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## Macfury

IllusionX said:


> I've got the first season, and have yet to watch it.
> 
> Hey, should z-nation get its own thread, instead of hijacking the walking dead's?


This thread gets only occasional attention as it is and only three of us are into Z-Nation as it is. See how you feel after watching the first season.


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## Macfury

Episode Three of _Fear the Walking Dead_. The show felt like it was spinning its wheels. Characters rehashing the same conclusions over and over. Did not much enjoy the in-family conflict--weak-kneed Travis and his two wives, plus unlikable kids. Gutless mom feeding Johnny Depp pills. Poor dog died. Worst line of the show: "You know how I feel about guns..."

An OK time-killer but not a strong entry.


----------



## fjnmusic

IllusionX said:


> I've got the first season, and have yet to watch it.
> 
> Hey, should z-nation get its own thread, instead of hijacking the walking dead's?
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk



Yes, that would be preferable. I enjoyed the third episode as the things that used to represent security and safety are becoming just the opposite. Remember, this is just the beginning and no one knows quite how to respond yet. It was sad about Susan the neighbour, but what can you do? I think it's beginning to dawn on these people that the may not be a temporary state of affairs. Where did Tobias go?


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## BReligion

Macfury said:


> Murphy was golden. I laughed at his clear delight in presenting that awful zombie burlesque.
> 
> I agree about the bounty hunting--it presents a little too much of a repetitive threat cycle. It also puts "Citizen Z" at clear odds with the strategy of the core group. And what good is he with a bunch of smashed up screens?


Brilliantly ridiculous!

The bounty hunting will get old fast, but they should have some fun with it for a few episodes. If we don't hear any Banjo's and a car chase scene, or Scooby-Doo/Bugs Bunny'esk chase scenes in and out of doors or buildings I may be disappointed.
I actually thought we were going to see a long series of cars ripping off when they saw the van go by.

I know Cassandra is shell shocked (literally) and everything else that's going on, but she had better snap out of it, the spin on that character is going to get old...FAST.

The Citizen Z, I agree.. Not much good with totaled equipment up there. Can't exactly run to Best Buy and patch up or even McGuiver a solution. The way the episode went (that last broadcast) kind of made me think he wasn't going to makde it to the end of the episode and wonder if DJ Qualls had signed on for season 2. If that were the case why did the self defense kick in. 
Interesting that the Z nation has been the first to touch the long standing Zombie world statement/plan to just wait until winter and freeze all of the Zombies out... Didn't work.

BReligion


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## Macfury

BReligion said:


> The Citizen Z, I agree.. Not much good with totaled equipment up there. Can't exactly run to Best Buy and patch up or even McGuiver a solution. The way the episode went (that last broadcast) kind of made me think he wasn't going to makde it to the end of the episode ...


That got me a lot more worried about what might happen to the dog!


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> Episode Three of _Fear the Walking Dead_. The show felt like it was spinning its wheels. Characters rehashing the same conclusions over and over. Did not much enjoy the in-family conflict--weak-kneed Travis and his two wives, plus unlikable kids. Gutless mom feeding Johnny Depp pills. Poor dog died. Worst line of the show: "You know how I feel about guns..."
> 
> An OK time-killer but not a strong entry.


Yeah so far it's waffling. A couple people in the office were giving it last nights episode to decide if they were going to continue with it.. Will be interesting to see when they get in if we discuss further over coffee from now on 

I think more about the mom/depp situation, and I am reminded of some of what irked me about Breaking Bad. As I watched last night I thought more about Jessy and the "Really.. again" thoughts returned? Didn't you learn anything? Why are you doing this (again and again and again).. and someone pointed out to me that's the sad thing about some people. There really are people who are like that out there. SO I guess okay, you have a son who is completely strung out and addicted. Seeing what he has seen probably isn't going to snap him straight may drive it further. You've got a mother who is obviously an enabler or if she doesn't enable he is just going to run (as we saw by the end of the episode) so she is hanging on to him however she can. 

Is it stellar writing, no. I get it. I give it some slack because I think I want to like the show more then I do. If this had come before Walking Dead (as unfair as this statement is), would I stick it out? Maybe, each week less and less likely for a second season.

If it makes you feel any better, if Travis is the moral compass of Fear the Walking Dead, the moral compasses of Walking Deadverse normally have a limited lifespan 

BReligion


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Remember, this is just the beginning and no one knows quite how to respond yet.


Why not? It's already become damned clear what's happening. It's obvious that this troupe of dawdling, bickering sad sacks would already be toast in this scenario.

"You know how I feel about guns!" Harrrr!


----------



## Macfury

I agree with you, BReligion. I want to like this show so I am already meeting it half way--it's just not doing its part. If anything I will cheer that kid's violent demise even more so than I cheered Andrea's.



BReligion said:


> Yeah so far it's waffling. A couple people in the office were giving it last nights episode to decide if they were going to continue with it.. Will be interesting to see when they get in if we discuss further over coffee from now on
> 
> I think more about the mom/depp situation, and I am reminded of some of what irked me about Breaking Bad. As I watched last night I thought more about Jessy and the "Really.. again" thoughts returned? Didn't you learn anything? Why are you doing this (again and again and again).. and someone pointed out to me that's the sad thing about some people. There really are people who are like that out there. SO I guess okay, you have a son who is completely strung out and addicted. Seeing what he has seen probably isn't going to snap him straight may drive it further. You've got a mother who is obviously an enabler or if she doesn't enable he is just going to run (as we saw by the end of the episode) so she is hanging on to him however she can.
> 
> Is it stellar writing, no. I get it. I give it some slack because I think I want to like the show more then I do. If this had come before Walking Dead (as unfair as this statement is), would I stick it out? Maybe, each week less and less likely for a second season.
> 
> If it makes you feel any better, if Travis is the moral compass of Fear the Walking Dead, the moral compasses of Walking Deadverse normally have a limited lifespan
> 
> BReligion


----------



## Macfury

'Fear the Walking Dead' fans vs. Travis Episode 3 - Business Insider



> 'Fear the Walking Dead' fans are really annoyed with Travis after Sunday's episode


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> 'Fear the Walking Dead' fans vs. Travis Episode 3 - Business Insider


True.. but again, I think at this point he is somewhat "the moral compass".. think of him = Dale. I could see Dale having the similar views (again my earlier statement, look where that got Dale/Moral Compass in the end). Even with a Barn full of Walkers 71 days into the apocalypse, Dale was making a case not to bust the barn open and execute them... and it was well Established at that point what was going on. Don't get me wrong, I am not on Team Travis, not by a long shot.

There has to be someone who objects to it. Would actually be pretty unrealistic (even for a Zombie show) to just start executing everyone who was "off", especially at the beginning.

...and not to slight that business insider's post, but take from what you will from the site who also has an acticle "Meet the 24-year-old breakout star of 'Fear the Walking Dead'"... Yeah I wouldn't call him the breakout star 

BReligion


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## fjnmusic

BReligion said:


> There has to be someone who objects to it. Would actually be pretty unrealistic (even for a Zombie show) to just start executing everyone who was "off", especially at the beginning.



This. It's easy to sit back smugly with the benefit of five seasons of zombie killing to justify the kill anything that walks funny attitude. But if one compares it to an outbreak in today's actual world, then the reactions are quite believable, actually. I like how not all people react the same way in every zombie show, and the Peter and Susan scene was quite chilling really. People don't know yet, and they're adapting the best they can. They do know there's something really wrong about the situation, and the most enlightened one is also the one with most drug-addled brain. I would like to see more about Tobias though.


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## Macfury

What I take from this fjn, is that you would be a dawdling wreck and I would inherit what was left of the earth.



fjnmusic said:


> This. It's easy to sit back smugly with the benefit of five seasons of zombie killing to justify the kill anything that walks funny attitude. But if one compares it to an outbreak in today's actual world, then the reactions are quite believable, actually. I like how not all people react the same way in every zombie show, and the Peter and Susan scene was quite chilling really. People don't know yet, and they're adapting the best they can. They do know there's something really wrong about the situation, and the most enlightened one is also the one with most drug-addled brain. I would like to see more about Tobias though.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## BReligion

Actually... To both of your points, it will be very interesting to see what happens with this new Military presence (too much force vs not enough action) We (as watchers) know it's not transmitted by touch, and we know we aren't going to see Peter again because of the military paranoia. 

I figure the season will end with enternment Camps being setup... The military is marking houses now, just a matter of time until they start croaling people trying to stop the spread. We know it will go bad... Just wish it went worse for people I cared more about?!? (Oxymoronic statement of the year )

BReligion


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## fjnmusic

BReligion said:


> Actually... To both of your points, it will be very interesting to see what happens with this new Military presence (too much force vs not enough action) We (as watchers) know it's not transmitted by touch, and we know we aren't going to see Peter again because of the military paranoia.
> 
> 
> 
> I figure the season will end with enternment Camps being setup... The military is marking houses now, just a matter of time until they start croaling people trying to stop the spread. We know it will go bad... Just wish it went worse for people I cared more about?!? (Oxymoronic statement of the year )
> 
> 
> 
> BReligion



Interesting observations. At this point, the story has more in common with other stories of the plague or perhaps rounding up the people in Nazi Germany or Internet camps for Japanese Canadians than it does with the other Walking Dead series, and I like it for that. There's many perspectives and more than one way to tell a story. "When civilization falls, it falls fast." - Tobias


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> At this point, the story has more in common with other stories of the plague or perhaps rounding up the people in Nazi Germany or Internet camps for Japanese Canadians than it does with the other Walking Dead series, and I like it for that. There's many perspectives and more than one way to tell a story. "When civilization falls, it falls fast." - Tobias


I don't see that it has any relationship to either Nazi Germany or rounding up Japanese Canadians. It has more in common with a plague story because it is about a plague. Tobias' quote also makes little sense except in the context of a zombie plague. Civilization falls fast here because zombies are vicious and violent and kill a lot of people. In reality, civilization generally deteriorates quite slowly.

Probably the best moment of episode 3 was the two guys putting out their trash. It wasn't simply that they did it, but that they were so self-conscious about it.


----------



## Macfury

BReligion said:


> True.. but again, I think at this point he is somewhat "the moral compass".. think of him = Dale. I could see Dale having the similar views (again my earlier statement, look where that got Dale/Moral Compass in the end). Even with a Barn full of Walkers 71 days into the apocalypse, Dale was making a case not to bust the barn open and execute them... and it was well Established at that point what was going on. Don't get me wrong, I am not on Team Travis, not by a long shot.
> 
> There has to be someone who objects to it. Would actually be pretty unrealistic (even for a Zombie show) to just start executing everyone who was "off", especially at the beginning.


I wanted those zombies to take out Dale's scraggly, weak-kneed carcass early on. I was glad to see him go!.

It would be unrealistic to execute everyone before it became clear that they were dead. That they are dead and that they will kill you has already been established to a significant degree. Even Travis should see now that guns are necessary to fight them off.



BReligion said:


> Actually... To both of your points, it will be very interesting to see what happens with this new Military presence (too much force vs not enough action) We (as watchers) know it's not transmitted by touch, and we know we aren't going to see Peter again because of the military paranoia.
> 
> I figure the season will end with enternment Camps being setup... The military is marking houses now, just a matter of time until they start croaling people trying to stop the spread. We know it will go bad... Just wish it went worse for people I cared more about?!? (Oxymoronic statement of the year )
> 
> BReligion


I generally don't enjoy the military phase of these stories--it was the weakest part of _30 Days Later_ for example. I hope it's truncated or that Travis's awful blended family takes a hike early on.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> I don't see that it has any relationship to either Nazi Germany or rounding up Japanese Canadians. It has more in common with a plague story because it is about a plague. Tobias' quote also makes little sense except in the context of a zombie plague. Civilization falls fast here because zombies are vicious and violent and kill a lot of people. In reality, civilization generally deteriorates quite slowly.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably the best moment of episode 3 was the two guys putting out their trash. It wasn't simply that they did it, but that they were so self-conscious about it.



Have you ever thought of yourself as a tad argumentative and difficult to have a conversation with? I did like the guys taking the trash part out though.


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## Macfury

Sorry if my directness offended you. I simply didn't see the parallels. No offense intended.



fjnmusic said:


> Have you ever thought of yourself as a tad argumentative and difficult to have a conversation with? I did like the guys taking the trash part out though.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

fjn, what's your bet on Tobias--do you think he'll be back?

My money is on him reappearing and doing quite well.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Sorry if my directness offended you. I simply didn't see the parallels. No offense intended.



Alright then, apology accepted. I think FTWD is trying to cover different ground than TWD, specifically by focussing on the breakdown of society in the early days. Hence the Tobias quote. What I find interesting here is how quickly the facade of freedom and dignity disappears when a real threat appears. With the army taking over society, I see parallels to the War Measures a Act in Canada, for example. There is also an irony in Chris filming what he perceived as police brutality against people when he had no idea that the people were the real danger. That's what I like about this show is that all bets are off as to how things will involve. And thankfully there's no comic book this time to have to be faithful to, even though the creator, Robert Kirkman, is the same.


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> fjn, what's your bet on Tobias--do you think he'll be back?
> 
> 
> 
> My money is on him reappearing and doing quite well.



Got my fingers crossed for Tobias, the sleeper hero and most unlikely to succeed becoming the new geek hero of the piece. He'll probably reunite with Mrs. C and the others in an internment camp somewhere.


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## Macfury

Again, I'm just not seeing it. Largely because the show seems to virtually ignore media reports of what is going on and any government missives. That's the missing ingredient. The army is there, but I don't know if it has taken over society because there is no context for their arrival. The entire extended family appears completely disinterested in anything but the occasional YouTube video, so they're far more in the dark than I would be.

During he Toronto ice storm two yeas ago, everybody was talking to everybody for news. In LA, people just stare at each other.

Agreed about Chris filming though.



fjnmusic said:


> Alright then, apology accepted. I think FTWD is trying to cover different ground than TWD, specifically by focussing on the breakdown of society in the early days. Hence the Tobias quote. What I find interesting here is how quickly the facade of freedom and dignity disappears when a real threat appears. With the army taking over society, I see parallels to the War Measures a Act in Canada, for example. There is also an irony in Chris filming what he perceived as police brutality against people when he had no idea that the people were the real danger. That's what I like about this show is that all bets are off as to how things will involve. And thankfully there's no comic book this time to have to be faithful to, even though the creator, Robert Kirkman, is the same.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Got my fingers crossed for Tobias, the sleeper hero and most unlikely to succeed becoming the new geek hero of the piece. He'll probably reunite with Mrs. C and the others in an internment camp somewhere.
> 
> I'll bet he shows up way later.


----------



## BReligion

fjnmusic said:


> ... and thankfully there's no comic book this time to have to be faithful to, even though the creator, Robert Kirkman, is the same.


Walking Dead Comic <> Walking Dead TV.. Scott M Gimple (executive producer/writer) and Kirkman have made a lot of efforts to distinguish the two. The two stories can be compared to two trains running on parallel tracks weaving through the story, the lines intersect and both drive to some major plot points/characters but both need to be treated completely separate

I think the show is doing what all Media representations of this kind of event do. So far nothing new. 

The powers at be have knowledge of something going on, they are secretly trying to contain it, not informing the public of what's going on I am sure suppressing the media. They feel "they" can contain it. The Media isn't talking about it in fear of fear and rioting and suppression (didn't work), now they will bring in the military to calm the situation (won't work for long), they will move to camps (like I said earlier, won't work, just putting all the cattle in one spot)... This is typical of TV or it wouldn't be TV.. 
So far that's my issue (unfairly so) with the show. It's nothing new. I can't cite any specific things that it's the same as (specific movies or tv series off the top of my head) but it's not new. Remember too our group of Walking Dead started as the "Survivors of the Atlanta Camp". Shane in Season 1 describes the camps and the fall to Rick so some of what is to come is already on it's train tracks.. I don't remember the details I have to go back and watch it again but I think Tobias talking about it falling fast (pre event) is the same as what Shane said post event.

BReligion


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## Macfury

I agree. This is pretty standard fair and mirrors what we did not see-but knew to have happened--in Atlanta. The trope of safe public shelters goes right back to George Romero, where citizens are urged to go to rescue stations, even as the military is losing them. I've seen several very recent zombie films, which are centred around internment camps for the infected. _The Returned_ (2013) is all about that.

The media reports I expected to see would be messages from the President and governor, and instructions to citizens in addition to social media reports. The communication infrastructure still works, but nobody appears interested. 

I would expect civilization to "fall fast" in gunless liberal enclaves where guys like Travis would fall like bowling pins, but not so much in the rest of the country.



BReligion said:


> Walking Dead Comic <> Walking Dead TV.. Scott M Gimple (executive producer/writer) and Kirkman have made a lot of efforts to distinguish the two. The two stories can be compared to two trains running on parallel tracks weaving through the story, the lines intersect and both drive to some major plot points/characters but both need to be treated completely separate
> 
> I think the show is doing what all Media representations of this kind of event do. So far nothing new.
> 
> The powers at be have knowledge of something going on, they are secretly trying to contain it, not informing the public of what's going on I am sure suppressing the media. They feel "they" can contain it. The Media isn't talking about it in fear of fear and rioting and suppression (didn't work), now they will bring in the military to calm the situation (won't work for long), they will move to camps (like I said earlier, won't work, just putting all the cattle in one spot)... This is typical of TV or it wouldn't be TV..
> So far that's my issue (unfairly so) with the show. It's nothing new. I can't cite any specific things that it's the same as (specific movies or tv series off the top of my head) but it's not new. Remember too our group of Walking Dead started as the "Survivors of the Atlanta Camp". Shane in Season 1 describes the camps and the fall to Rick so some of what is to come is already on it's train tracks.. I don't remember the details I have to go back and watch it again but I think Tobias talking about it falling fast (pre event) is the same as what Shane said post event.
> 
> BReligion


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> The media reports I expected to see would be messages from the President and governor, and instructions to citizens in addition to social media reports. The communication infrastructure still works, but nobody appears interested.


100% agree, but so far it's sparse reports (from Tobias if recall correctly) about this happening else where. Noting at that scale acknowledged by the government yet.. They are probably downplaying it publicly, planning internally (as seen by the cops stockpiling water)...
Okay okay, this is happening, police are on the scene we are okay *whew*.. Wait a second we have some people infected, something crazy is going on. Military is going in and blowing them away... case solved. *whew*, next.

I think you see some of this highlighted by the neighbor taking out the trash, and the military presence at the end of the episode. Life is back to normal at this point, the civil unrest is controlled. They are going to enact a curfew, isolate the "infected" areas probably like they are trying to contain Ebola. In reality so far in LA there have been what maybe 25-30 walkers? (we've seen maybe 10, going to say there have been 30). That's still a pretty small percentage of the population. *^$Ked up, but still isolated. No need to start mass panic. (ohhh but that's a comin and going to be great!)

BReligion


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## Macfury

BReligion said:


> In reality so far in LA there have been what maybe 25-30 walkers? (we've seen maybe 10, going to say there have been 30). That's still a pretty small percentage of the population.


Hard to say. One on the news but the family alone has encountered six--one in the church, the drug dealer, the principal, the neighbour, the guy blown away by the barber and the one attacking a neighbour outside. If they alone have seen six for sure there must be hundreds.


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> I agree. This is pretty standard fair and mirrors what we did not see-but knew to have happened--in Atlanta. The trope of safe public shelters goes right back to George Romero, where citizens are urged to go to rescue stations, even as the military is losing them. I've seen several very recent zombie films, which are centred around internment camps for the infected. _The Returned_ (2013) is all about that.
> 
> 
> 
> The media reports I expected to see would be messages from the President and governor, and instructions to citizens in addition to social media reports. The communication infrastructure still works, but nobody appears interested.
> 
> 
> 
> I would expect civilization to "fall fast" in gunless liberal enclaves where guys like Travis would fall like bowling pins, but not so much in the rest of the country.



If this plays out like The Walking Dead has, it's really a thinly veiled advertisement for the NRA. Americans love that kind of thing.


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## fjnmusic

BReligion said:


> Walking Dead Comic Walking Dead TV.. Scott M Gimple (executive producer/writer) and Kirkman have made a lot of efforts to distinguish the two. The two stories can be compared to two trains running on parallel tracks weaving through the story, the lines intersect and both drive to some major plot points/characters but both need to be treated completely separate
> 
> 
> 
> I think the show is doing what all Media representations of this kind of event do. So far nothing new.
> 
> 
> 
> The powers at be have knowledge of something going on, they are secretly trying to contain it, not informing the public of what's going on I am sure suppressing the media. They feel "they" can contain it. The Media isn't talking about it in fear of fear and rioting and suppression (didn't work), now they will bring in the military to calm the situation (won't work for long), they will move to camps (like I said earlier, won't work, just putting all the cattle in one spot)... This is typical of TV or it wouldn't be TV..
> 
> So far that's my issue (unfairly so) with the show. It's nothing new. I can't cite any specific things that it's the same as (specific movies or tv series off the top of my head) but it's not new. Remember too our group of Walking Dead started as the "Survivors of the Atlanta Camp". Shane in Season 1 describes the camps and the fall to Rick so some of what is to come is already on it's train tracks.. I don't remember the details I have to go back and watch it again but I think Tobias talking about it falling fast (pre event) is the same as what Shane said post event.
> 
> 
> 
> BReligion



Though the backdrop was a zombie apocalypse, the Walking Dead was also ultimately about a love triangle, brilliantly executed so it wouldn't seem too soap opera-ish. That's why they focussed so heavily on the camaraderie between Rick and Shane in the squad car at the start, and why they didn't reveal what Lori and Carl look like until just after we discover that's who Shane has been acting as surrogate husband/father to. It was that relationship as much as anything that drove the story.

If Fear succeeds, it will be because we care about the characters, and right now Travis may not be the right leading man. I think Madison will toughen up, but right now the story seems to be told more from the kids' point of view, which is fine by me. They're probably more interesting anyway.


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> If this plays out like The Walking Dead has, it's really a thinly veiled advertisement for the NRA. Americans love that kind of thing.


It's an advertisement for self sufficiency. But I do like that sort of thing!



fjnmusic said:


> Though the backdrop was a zombie apocalypse, the Walking Dead was also ultimately about a love triangle, brilliantly executed so it wouldn't seem too soap opera-ish.


I found that love triangle really irritating. I didn't see that as the heart of the story and was really glad when it was over.


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> It's an advertisement for self sufficiency. But I do like that sort of thing!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found that love triangle really irritating. I didn't see that as the heart of the story and was really glad when it was over.



I can understand why you'd feel that way, but keep in mind that The Walking Dead is also surprisingly popular among female viewers, who tend to like that sort of thing. And fashions. What the survivors are wearing is also important.


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## BReligion

fjnmusic said:


> Though the backdrop was a zombie apocalypse, the Walking Dead was also ultimately about a love triangle, brilliantly executed so it wouldn't seem too soap opera-ish. That's why they focussed so heavily on the camaraderie between Rick and Shane in the squad car at the start, and why they didn't reveal what Lori and Carl look like until just after we discover that's who Shane has been acting as surrogate husband/father to. It was that relationship as much as anything that drove the story.


I wouldn't say it's a love triangle (that was Season 1 and 2's subplot for TV). In reality yes the Zombies are a device, prominent antagonists in Season 1 and 2, less so in 3 and 4.. always there, always dangerous and to be riled up by the producers like a hornets nest when needed. 
The Walking Dead has is and always has been about people. How people deal with people and survive when they only have each other and their wits/conscious to rely on. As I think Macfury and I have both said (probably on every post so far about FEAR) that's the problem, we don't really care about these people. Not because they aren't "our people" like we've grown with Walking Dead. It's more because so far there's just no big hook to them (for me).

Walking Dead brilliantly started out with you immediately feeling for Rick as he woke up.. Look at the spot he's in and the turmoil he goes through to find his family. The drama around finding his family and "best friend" still alive. The Family and Best friend all assuming he was dead, trying to move on and survive... The drama that unfolds around the camp.. it's a pretty stellar start. We were on the edge of our seats right from Episode one... Not so much here in FEAR. I have no idea how they would do that with FEAR. Unfortunately like 95% of Sequel/Prequels it's just not at the same level as it's original (especially out of the gate).

BReligion


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## Macfury

It wasn't exactly a love triangle. More a stalker and a woman begging to be left alone.

BReligion, I get the impression that the show producers believe that they HAVE given us characters we should be invested in--and that they're mistaken. In fact, I'm growing less invested in them as time goes on. When I saw mom popping illegal drugs into her kids' mouth I simply wrote her off--what kind of a mother is such an enabler? These parents seem to be dragging a whole string of failures behind them.


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## BReligion

Macfury said:


> It wasn't exactly a love triangle. More a stalker and a woman begging to be left alone.
> 
> BReligion, I get the impression that the show producers believe that they HAVE given us characters we should be invested in--and that they're mistaken. In fact, I'm growing less invested in them as time goes on. When I saw mom popping illegal drugs into her kids' mouth I simply wrote her off--what kind of a mother is such an enabler? These parents seem to be dragging a whole string of failures behind them.


haha yeah.. Shane refuse to acknowledge the memo.

The only slack I will give the mother is the fact she is trying to wean him off the smack. Right or wrong she is trying to do the right thing. Could she try to get him to see a doctor and get the real stuff (methadone or whatever it is). Sure, but they are trying to cut and run, no time... They have also said this isn't the first time he has tried to get clean. So in one thought she is experienced with feeding him stuff to try to get him clean... and sadly as you eluded to earlier.. they have given me so far one character I cared about... then he had to get eaten by the neighbor. Poor Dog. :lmao:

BReligion


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## Macfury

Man, you are so right--I was grieving for the dog!! And they had to let him die!!! Maybe this is what they meant about important cast members being killed...



BReligion said:


> haha yeah.. Shane refuse to acknowledge the memo.
> 
> The only slack I will give the mother is the fact she is trying to wean him off the smack. Right or wrong she is trying to do the right thing. Could she try to get him to see a doctor and get the real stuff (methadone or whatever it is). Sure, but they are trying to cut and run, no time... They have also said this isn't the first time he has tried to get clean. So in one thought she is experienced with feeding him stuff to try to get him clean... and sadly as you eluded to earlier.. they have given me so far one character I cared about... then he had to get eaten by the neighbor. Poor Dog. :lmao:
> 
> BReligion


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I'm growing less invested in them as time goes on. When I saw mom popping illegal drugs into her kids' mouth I simply wrote her off--what kind of a mother is such an enabler? These parents seem to be dragging a whole string of failures behind them.


I'm far more interested in the barber and his family.... Rubén Blades is a fine actor.










Rubén quit acting for a few years in the mid-2000s to go home to Panama and serve as Minister of Tourism, and has hinted at making a run for the Presidency back home in a few years' time...


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## Macfury

Agreed, CM--he's the only one who seems to understand the serious nature of what's happening. I can get with his plan! Yet when he shows the kid how to use a gun, his dad goes all preachy on him. I would get down on my knees with gratitude.


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## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> I'm far more interested in the barber and his family.... Rubén Blades is a fine actor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rubén quit acting for a few years in the mid-2000s to go home to Panama and serve as Minister of Tourism, and has hinted at making a run for the Presidency back home in a few years' time...



Seems we've found our new Daryl Dixon. 😄


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## fjnmusic

.









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## Macfury

*Z-Nation spoilers:*

I quite enjoyed the last episode, despite its emphasis on bounty hunters. The action was fun and we got rid of one of the show's two most annoying characters. I also laughed at the out-of-body experience gag. Citizen Z seems to have found an almost endless supply of revived B-52 pilots--but at least the dog is still alive and well.


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## CubaMark

We continue to agree on Z-Nation, MF. My concerns about the bounty hunter angle were for naught - a great episode with lots of detail that fans will use in trivia. Yeah, the out-of-body experience was great. I'll have to check out who is writing this series, and see what else they may be creating that I've missed.

Oh - and yes, the pilots - surely that's the last of 'em by now?


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## CubaMark

I have to say... I really don't care what happens to any of these characters at this point, with the exception of Daniel Salazar (the barber). 

Quite the unloveable cast they have there on FTWD!


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## Macfury

Agreed. 

Also, for a show that purports to show us what happens before the world goes to pieces, this episode left out a huge and important step in terms of first attack to quarantine. Why are these people not listening to the radio, by the way? How easy is it to cut through a chain fence with military guards around--and what the hell was she doing? Not to mention the whining about housework! That little drug-addled piece of s h ! t must die!

This was not a good episode.



CubaMark said:


> I have to say... I really don't care what happens to any of these characters at this point, with the exception of Daniel Salazar (the barber).
> 
> Quite the unloveable cast they have there on FTWD!


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> *Z-Nation spoilers:*
> 
> I quite enjoyed the last episode, despite its emphasis on bounty hunters. The action was fun and we got rid of one of the show's two most annoying characters. I also laughed at the out-of-body experience gag. Citizen Z seems to have found an almost endless supply of revived B-52 pilots--but at least the dog is still alive and well.


Thanks for putting the "Spoilers" in your post.. I got as far as that word and closed my browser Saturday morning... watched the episode last night.

It feels like Citizen Z story line is just uhm Dead (pardon the pun)? Time filler? Seriously all he did was walk around and pick up guns all episode... Guns that have been laying around this whole time that he didn't feel the need to collect? Or.. (as I type this an epiphany??) maybe... did he stash them out there at strategic points previously?... AH HA! Maybe he is gathering them back up getting ready to break camp?? A one-man-one-dog sled next episode perhaps???

From the moment we saw the new guy I knew he would be joining our camp. Haven't had a strong Alpha Male for nearly half a season, it was time.

Agreed about loosing one of the more annoying characters.. Granted mercy yadda yadda see ya 

BReligion


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## BReligion

Macfury said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Also, for a show that purports to show us what happens before the world goes to pieces, this episode left out a huge and important step in terms of first attack to quarantine. Why are these people not listening to the radio, by the way?..


lol I was thinking the same thing... but I wouldn't go as far as a fancy term like purports.. I would say sole existence/only purpose.
Seriously they skipped over SO MUCH of what I thought was supposed to happen in this show! What are the zones that are marked dead? Why did they choose them? Why is travis now "Mr. Mayor" of that area. He sure didn't seem to be the Pillar of the community or anything... Then again, I think.. Is this really just from their perspective? Maybe they all know as little as we do. The fences went up overnight and they were told nothing... who knows.

For the Radio? I am assuming a) they have no power most of the time.. b) kids now a days don't have radios on them thar iPods c) no one is broadcasting and no one has a HAM or shortwave radio in SoCal anymore ... really I have no idea either



Macfury said:


> How easy is it to cut through a chain fence with military guards around--and what the hell was she doing?


Duh? CSI Mom remember?!? See Episode 1, Remember?! She has "feelings" and can just do more then the average guidance councilor?.... I wonder if her first husband was Jack Bauer... hmmm</end sarcasm>

This episode to me reinforces how much I miss the real Walking Dead. It was okay, a decent Time Filler, but nothing more then that.

BReligion


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## Macfury

I've got at least two radios that operate by battery power, a third that can be charged by a hand crank and one in the car.

I suppose we were intended to feel a pang when Grizelda ( I keep thinking of Hilarious House of Frightenstein) and that no-account kid were carted off. Grizelda is not even a real character--just a placeholder--and I don't care what happens to the kid.

I have never enjoyed the military bad guy trope very much, so I hope that they don't go down this overworn path--but I have my doubts.


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## CubaMark

*Nice. I like the attention to detail in Z-Nation.....*


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## Macfury

Nice screen grab, Mark--I missed that!

*Z-Nation spoilers:*

Really enjoyed the hyper-kinetic Z-mutants.

Only this series would have the audacity to take side-trip into Z-Weed territory.

Lots of fun from start to finish.

*Quibbles:*

* Did not understand the setup with the son, since there was no real payoff with Custer. 

* Some of the action setpieces on the truck were hard to follow. On this series I usually have a better idea of the choreography.

* Would have liked to see a little slower introduction of the Z-mutants.


----------



## CubaMark

Again, we're pretty much of the same mind on Z-nation. May have to decorate this thread with flowers, rainbows and unicorns.... 

And just in case no-one else catches it, the text in the mirror has been modified from what one typically finds on a right-hand-side vehicle mirror 

I'm still trying to figure out Cassandra.... she took an axe to the back, and is still going? What the heck is she?


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## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Again, we're pretty much of the same mind on Z-nation. May have to decorate this thread with flowers, rainbows and unicorns....
> 
> And just in case no-one else catches it, the text in the mirror has been modified from what one typically finds on a right-hand-side vehicle mirror
> 
> I'm still trying to figure out Cassandra.... she took an axe to the back, and is still going? What the heck is she?


Cassandra is part-Z because Murphy inoculated her with his bite. So she has the fortitude of a Z--and only seems to revert to a more human mindset under the effect of Z-Weed. 

I didn't see Citizen Z this episode.


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## Macfury

_Fear the Walking Dead_ is beginning to bore me. Watching that idiot Travis refuse to take out a zombie is simply frustrating. Prison and hospital sequences were by the book, and the soldier interrogation sequence fell flat. The Johnny Depp sequences were laughable and watching two brats destroy furniture was also a misfire. Operation Cobalt is so dumb a plan that it's laughable. 

Again, we get no real insight into the big picture, so another week passes where we don't really know how the world falls apart. The series is a wasted opportunity and deliberately fails to deliver on its explicit promise.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> _Fear the Walking Dead_ is beginning to bore me. Watching that idiot Travis refuse to take out a zombie is simply frustrating. Prison and hospital sequences were by the book, and the soldier interrogation sequence fell flat. The Johnny Depp sequences were laughable and watching two brats destroy furniture was also a misfire. Operation Cobalt is so dumb a plan that it's laughable.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, we get no real insight into the big picture, so another week passes where we don't really know how the world falls apart. The series is a wasted opportunity and deliberately fails to deliver on its explicit promise.



I quite enjoyed it as was the consensus on the Walking Dead forums. Perhaps you should stop watching it if you don't like it and start a Z Nation thread so you could stop hijacking this one.


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## Macfury

This is not a thread for unabashed "aw shucks" fan enthusiasm for _Fear_. It is a discussion about it. 

Why are you telling me that there is a "consensus" among "_Walking Dead_ forum members" anyway? Are you trying to make a case that quality is a consensus-based commodity? Viewer numbers are tanking for each successive episode, but that is no indication of the quality of a series. Neither are the many reviews of yesterday's episode in the likes of _Forbes_ and _Variety _declaring _Cobalt_ dull and disappointing.

Pretty funny to see how quickly you're telling me to take my posts elsewhere when you were crying about being asked to to do the same by someone in another thread. On the other hand you could start a thread called "I enjoyed it" in which you simply state how much you enjoy everything you watch!

However, I'm staying right here and delivering my unguarded opinion for as long as I watch the series!

(Thanks for reminding me! That last episode of _Z-Nation_ was better than this episode of _Fear_!)



fjnmusic said:


> I quite enjoyed it as was the consensus on the Walking Dead forums. Perhaps you should stop watching it if you don't like it and start a Z Nation thread so you could stop hijacking this one.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> Really enjoyed the hyper-kinetic Z-mutants.
> Lots of fun from start to finish.
> 
> *Quibbles:*
> 
> * Did not understand the setup with the son, since there was no real payoff with Custer.
> * Some of the action setpieces on the truck were hard to follow. On this series I usually have a better idea of the choreography.
> * Would have liked to see a little slower introduction of the Z-mutants.


See for the first time I think we disagree an episode... I thought this had to be one of the WORST episodes of Z-Nation to date. I found the entire episode drawn out and boring (your Quibbles are a summation of my dislike of the whole show!)

I thought the super nuke zombies weren't interesting and they were here and gone so fast it was just silly.
The Road Bandits again, so fast, no explanation silly
The Trucker/son/entire story, so fast, no explanation of any of the nameless people or of anything really other then the camping trip with the son to Edmonton...

To me this was just a time filler, here's a stretch of road, here's some stuff that happened on the road, we didn't gain anything, we didn't loose anything great, next.

What did we get out of the entire show? They are on their way to Minnapolis for the Z Weed.. 

I guess to me that entire 46?ish minute episode could have been done in a 10 minute flash back sequence.

I missed Citizen Z more then I thought I would have 

BReligion


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> _Fear the Walking Dead_ is beginning to bore me. Watching that idiot Travis refuse to take out a zombie is simply frustrating. Prison and hospital sequences were by the book, and the soldier interrogation sequence fell flat. The Johnny Depp sequences were laughable and watching two brats destroy furniture was also a misfire. Operation Cobalt is so dumb a plan that it's laughable.
> 
> Again, we get no real insight into the big picture, so another week passes where we don't really know how the world falls apart. The series is a wasted opportunity and deliberately fails to deliver on its explicit promise.


It was another "Just okay" episode.
While the kids trashing the house was stupid, it was again just highlighting stereotypical things I would expect to see and have seen so far. Like you said by the book.. but really, what would you expect differently?

I guess some positive takeaways....

Daniel... not just a crusty old barber...but a crusty old kick ass butcher (way more interesting character now) 
The new guy (black guy in the prison, didn't catch his name) is the only character I now care about.
They know in this hospital/camp everyone comes back to life after they die, bitten or not. So "they" know (at the "government" level) that they need to damage the brain to stop it.... (similar to the CDC knowledge) so... Why/how does this information NOT get disseminated? How does it get lost.. that's going to be interesting to see
You can see the cracks starting to form even with the Soldiers (again typical, but still interestingish.)

Overall Meh, but better meh then last weeks meh? 

BReligion


----------



## Macfury

I'm not particularly invested in the story arc, so doing a spoof on the last _Road Warrior _movie is fine with me! 

The worst one has to be that _Groundhog Day_ episode last season.



BReligion said:


> See for the first time I think we disagree an episode... I thought this had to be one of the WORST episodes of Z-Nation to date. I found the entire episode drawn out and boring (your Quibbles are a summation of my dislike of the whole show!)
> 
> I thought the super nuke zombies weren't interesting and they were here and gone so fast it was just silly.
> The Road Bandits again, so fast, no explanation silly
> The Trucker/son/entire story, so fast, no explanation of any of the nameless people or of anything really other then the camping trip with the son to Edmonton...
> 
> To me this was just a time filler, here's a stretch of road, here's some stuff that happened on the road, we didn't gain anything, we didn't loose anything great, next.
> 
> What did we get out of the entire show? They are on their way to Minnapolis for the Z Weed..
> 
> I guess to me that entire 46?ish minute episode could have been done in a 10 minute flash back sequence.
> 
> I missed Citizen Z more then I thought I would have
> 
> BReligion


----------



## Macfury

The whole "head shot" trope is a bore by now. If they don't stop when you take out their abdomen, then you shoot the head. It's not like this is rocket science! The dead rise--should take a couple of hours to figure this out.

* Daniel had already revealed himself to be quite brutal, so no big reveal.
* Prison guy marginally interesting.

Slightly worse than the last episode for me.



BReligion said:


> It was another "Just okay" episode.
> While the kids trashing the house was stupid, it was again just highlighting stereotypical things I would expect to see and have seen so far. Like you said by the book.. but really, what would you expect differently?
> 
> I guess some positive takeaways....
> 
> Daniel... not just a crusty old barber...but a crusty old kick ass butcher (way more interesting character now)
> The new guy (black guy in the prison, didn't catch his name) is the only character I now care about.
> They know in this hospital/camp everyone comes back to life after they die, bitten or not. So "they" know (at the "government" level) that they need to damage the brain to stop it.... (similar to the CDC knowledge) so... Why/how does this information NOT get disseminated? How does it get lost.. that's going to be interesting to see
> You can see the cracks starting to form even with the Soldiers (again typical, but still interestingish.)
> 
> Overall Meh, but better meh then last weeks meh?
> 
> BReligion


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> I'm not particularly invested in the story arc, so doing a spoof on the last _Road Warrior _movie is fine with me!


I figured that's what they were going for. Here's hoping for something better next week!

BReligion


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> * Daniel had already revealed himself to be quite brutal, so no big reveal.


I disagree... I think we knew Daniel was tough. We knew he survived and escaped some **** in El Salvador.i think the perception (at least to me) is that he was tough as nails, hard ass and emotional... do what you have to do to survive during an uprising.. What we discovered is he was actually a government torturer. Very meticulous, very calm and organized.

BReligion


----------



## CubaMark

*Huh. I didn't realize FTWD would have such a short "season" (can it really be called that?).*

*AMC Launches New Web Series Fear the Walking Dead: Flight 462*

_*Fear the Walking Dead may be concluding its first season this Sunday, October 4th*, but “Fear” will continue to spread as AMC rolls out its newest web series, officially titled Fear the Walking Dead: Flight 462, online beginning this fall. The first installment of the 16-part series will debut on amc.com on Sunday, October 4th and will then air as promos during two commercial breaks within The Walking Dead Season 6 premiere episode on Sunday, October 11th.

Subsequent episodes of Flight 462, each less than one minute long, will debut every Sunday, online and then on-air as promos during new episodes of The Walking Dead, for the duration of Season 6. In addition, *one of the characters featured in the web series, *which is produced by Fear the Walking Dead showrunner and executive producer Dave Erickson and co-executive producer David Wiener,* will join the cast of Fear the Walking Dead Season 2.*

Fear the Walking Dead: Flight 462 tells the story of a group of passengers aboard a commercial airplane during the earliest moments of the outbreak. Over the course of the series, the plane and the lives of its passengers are put in jeopardy once they discover an infected traveler. _​
(AMC.com)


----------



## BReligion

CubaMark said:


> *Huh. I didn't realize FTWD would have such a short "season" (can it really be called that?).*


It's following the same formula as Walking Dead. Season 1 of Walking Dead was 6 Episodes as well.

Walking Dead also did a small series of Webisodes as well...

BReligion


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## Macfury

I obviously did not know he was a torturer, but I thought of him immediately as a dangerous guy with a lot of secrets. 

I'm still thinking of the stupidity of Operation Cobalt: killing all of the living humans so there will be fewer zombies. If they were all like Travis that would make sense, but I think most people would take out two or three walkers each before turning. I'd be giving them guns instead of shooting them.



BReligion said:


> I disagree... I think we knew Daniel was tough. We knew he survived and escaped some **** in El Salvador.i think the perception (at least to me) is that he was tough as nails, hard ass and emotional... do what you have to do to survive during an uprising.. What we discovered is he was actually a government torturer. Very meticulous, very calm and organized.
> 
> BReligion


----------



## fjnmusic

Daniel has become very interesting—and a whole lot scarier—this episode. I am impressed when they do that: take someone that you begin to admire and then reveal their dark side. They did the same thing in reverse with the Governor once upon a time. Set the story up where you actually feel some sympathy for the guy before turning him into a cold blooded psychopath again. And Strand just rose to the top of the interesting characters list with his strategy in the holding cell. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

My admiration for the Governor rose when I realized that he had created a superior society to that of Rick Grimes. Too bad he was a whack job.

It's not too hard in FTWD for characters to rise up to the ranks of most interesting characters--there ain't a hell of a lot of competition.



fjnmusic said:


> Daniel has become very interesting—and a whole lot scarier—this episode. I am impressed when they do that: take someone that you begin to admire and then reveal their dark side. They did the same thing in reverse with the Governor once upon a time. Set the story up where you actually feel some sympathy for the guy before turning him into a cold blooded psychopath again. And Strand just rose to the top of the interesting characters list with his strategy in the holding cell.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> My admiration for the Governor rose when I realized that he had created a superior society to that of Rick Grimes. Too bad he was a whack job.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not too hard in FTWD for characters to rise up to the ranks of most interesting characters--there ain't a hell of a lot of competition.



The Governor never seemed that scary to me. Maybe he was scarier on the comics. His actions were definitely sociopathic, but then so are Daniel Salazar's. I like the way they set him up to be somebody we would admire and respect, until we saw what he is capable of. I think Strand is the one to watch. Smooth and on the ball, this guy knows how to play the game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

I thought Daniel was a bad guy when we met him in the barbershop.



fjnmusic said:


> The Governor never seemed that scary to me. Maybe he was scarier on the comics. His actions were definitely sociopathic, but then so are Daniel Salazar's. I like the way they set him up to be somebody we would admire and respect, until we saw what he is capable of. I think Strand is the one to watch. Smooth and on the ball, this guy knows how to play the game.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

*SOME SPOILERS*

Last night's _Z-Nation_ wasn't much fun. The program usually trades on a certain level of silliness, but the Z-Weed episode's "phyto-zombies" pushed that envelope too far for my enjoyment. I did not accept the premise that it was difficult to harvest those seed pods from the greenhouse to start with. A few funny lines about Garden Weasels and the like.


----------



## Macfury

*SPOILERS*

A slightly better episode of FEAR tonight, simply because of the zombie chaos.

The family extraction plan made no logical sense. Daniel's engineering a mass walker attack on a hospital was a stupid and colossal failure. Nice to see all of the innocents he took down. Every part of the rescue op depended on pure blind luck--that was terrible scripting. The empty sections of freeway were ridiculous. Andy's motivations in this mess were preposterous. Also, what's up with that dumb confrontation between the army and the kids in the garage? It went nowhere. Sorry to see Liza go, simply because i think Travis cut her a raw deal in life--should have been Maddy with a bullet in the brain.

Of all the people who could survive the apocalypse, this miserable group of wankers would have stood no chance. Travis remains a pathetic doink, finding a bit of writer-induced mojo just in time for the closing credits.

So here we go with six episodes in the can, and a complete failure of the series to keep its promise to document the downfall of society in ways that its parent series did not. We also have a group of characters we barely know because the writers couldn't be bothered to flesh them out.

I agree with Variety: "Fear the Walking Dead” finished a first season best characterized as an operation that failed, but the patient still lived."


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> *SPOILERS*
> 
> A slightly better episode of FEAR tonight, simply because of the zombie chaos.
> 
> The family extraction plan made no logical sense. Daniel's engineering a mass walker attack on a hospital was a stupid and colossal failure. Nice to see all of the innocents he took down. Every part of the rescue op depended on pure blind luck--that was terrible scripting. The empty sections of freeway were ridiculous. Andy's motivations in this mess were preposterous. Also, what's up with that dumb confrontation between the army and the kids in the garage? It went nowhere. Sorry to see Liza go, simply because i think Travis cut her a raw deal in life--should have been Maddy with a bullet in the brain.
> 
> Of all the people who could survive the apocalypse, this miserable group of wankers would have stood no chance. Travis remains a pathetic doink, finding a bit of writer-induced mojo just in time for the closing credits.
> 
> So here we go with six episodes in the can, and a complete failure of the series to keep its promise to document the downfall of society in ways that its parent series did not. We also have a group of characters we barely know because the writers couldn't be bothered to flesh them out.
> 
> I agree with Variety: "Fear the Walking Dead” finished a first season best characterized as an operation that failed, but the patient still lived."


I thought overall it was a decent finale.

I think Daniels plan was really just to use the Walkers as a distraction, I don't think he actually thought they would get through the fence. I would also assume that when he let them out he wouldn't have thought the herd was as big as it was. I didn't mind "the plan". These are supposed to be normal run a day family people. I don't expect sound military logic or planning (yes I know about Daniels previous life, still he wasn't in that branch of the torture division ). 

I thought the freeway was fine, it was reminiscent of Atlanta. Everyone trying to get the hell out, no one coming in... Now why people wouldn't go the wrong way on an empty freeway? I don't know, I didn't understand that about Atlanta either.

The garage scene was silly, but the soldiers were already looking at going AWOL that much was evident in the last few episodes.. Another scene that didn't really need to be there other then to setup the "What's worse, walkers or military" angel.

The more I think about the show the more I don't mind what they did with the perspective of the series. It's shot from the point of view of a family in East LA. They are just supposed to be average people. I don't see them having precise military expertise, extra knowledge or power. They are as clueless as we are about how it happened, expect they haven't been watching 5 seasons of WD to know everyone with hazy eyes is baddd  I have the same feeling as ever. It was just Okay. A decent time filler until the real Walking Dead comes back. Let's see if Season 2 picks up... and how Flight 462 does.

BReligion


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## Macfury

BReligion said:


> I think Daniels plan was really just to use the Walkers as a distraction, I don't think he actually thought they would get through the fence. I would also assume that when he let them out he wouldn't have thought the herd was as big as it was. I didn't mind "the plan". These are supposed to be normal run a day family people. I don't expect sound military logic or planning (yes I know about Daniels previous life, still he wasn't in that branch of the torture division ).


Daniel's "plan" to open the doors containing a stadium full of zombies caused the deaths of hundreds of innocent people, so he's already crap in my books.



> The more I think about the show the more I don't mind what they did with the perspective of the series. It's shot from the point of view of a family in East LA. They are just supposed to be average people. I don't see them having precise military expertise, extra knowledge or power.


I don't expect the family to be military geniuses, but I also don't expect them to be hapless boobs either. Surviving by accident is not a compelling dramatic device.



BReligion said:


> I thought the freeway was fine, it was reminiscent of Atlanta. Everyone trying to get the hell out, no one coming in... Now why people wouldn't go the wrong way on an empty freeway? I don't know, I didn't understand that about Atlanta either.


The aerial shot had most of the roads empty and relatively unscathed, except for a few wisps of smoke. In realty, the surrounding area would have millions of refugees--and the city would be a stinking cesspool suffused with flies.


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> Daniel's "plan" to open the doors containing a stadium full of zombies caused the deaths of hundreds of innocent people, so he's already crap in my books.


I don't know about hundreds of innocent people... but I think it's pretty clear he cares about his family and nothing else. Everything else is collateral.



Macfury said:


> The aerial shot had most of the roads empty and relatively unscathed, except for a few wisps of smoke. In realty, the surrounding area would have millions of refugees--and the city would be a stinking cesspool suffused with flies.


Granted, they didn't explain that but remember they had cordoned off everyone that we ever saw. Everything outside of their fenced community was the "dead zone". Nothing alive out there. That was seen as CSI Supermom Madison snuck out. It was soldier patrolled and they killed everything alive or walking (as seen by the bodies and the execution Travis witnessed on the roof). What happened to all the people.. I couldn't tell you... Maybe in season 2?

BReligion


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## Macfury

BReligion said:


> What happened to all the people.. I couldn't tell you... Maybe in season 2?


The explicit promise of the series was showing us how society falls. By isolating the family, they sidestepped that promise. Now all they can offer is flashbacks.


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> The explicit promise of the series was showing us how society falls. By isolating the family, they sidestepped that promise. Now all they can offer is flashbacks.



When exactly did they make that promise? I have no recollection of it. All I knew was that this would be the start of the zombie apocalypse told from a different point of view.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

Kirkman explained it several times in interviews. Example



> Kirkman, who cancelled all his SDCC appearances due to a recent throat surgery, said in a video from set that "Fear the Walking Dead" is "more emotional" than "The Walking Dead" because* viewers will witness how society is being stripped from the characters in "real-time."*


We don't get that "real-time"because we are given staccato pacing that eliminates the detailed progression.



fjnmusic said:


> When exactly did they make that promise? I have no recollection of it. All I knew was that this would be the start of the zombie apocalypse told from a different point of view.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Kirkman explained it several times in interviews. Example
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We don't get that "real-time"because we are given staccato pacing that eliminates the detailed progression.



Huh. Imagine that. I guess not everyone is privy to the same insider scoops as you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

Just blind chance reading various sites.



fjnmusic said:


> Huh. Imagine that. I guess not everyone is privy to the same insider scoops as you.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BReligion

Countdown to Sunday is on.

I love the fact that AMC does like a whole week Marathon of every episode in order before their premiers of a show. So great to watch an old episode here or there. What a difference to see them between Season 1 and now.

BReligion


----------



## fjnmusic

BReligion said:


> Countdown to Sunday is on.
> 
> 
> 
> I love the fact that AMC does like a whole week Marathon of every episode in order before their premiers of a show. So great to watch an old episode here or there. What a difference to see them between Season 1 and now.
> 
> 
> 
> BReligion



Daryl with short hair! Carl just a little kid! It is cool.


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## Macfury

Looking forward to seeing Dale killed again!



BReligion said:


> Countdown to Sunday is on.
> 
> I love the fact that AMC does like a whole week Marathon of every episode in order before their premiers of a show. So great to watch an old episode here or there. What a difference to see them between Season 1 and now.
> 
> BReligion


----------



## Macfury

Now THAT'S how you tell a living dead story!


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Now THAT'S how you tell a living dead story!



So you liked, eh? Me too. The B&W treatment for the earlier timeline was actually helpful and not just artsy as it turned out. Lots of screen time for all the main characters as well, and they made the new guy just like able enough when he comes around after all his complaining that you actually feel for him when he bites it. Or gets bit, rather.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CubaMark

I dunno, guys... I wish they'd stop skimping on the Zombies....


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> I dunno, guys... I wish they'd stop skimping on the Zombies....


It was a little spare in the Z department...

(Word is that the walker action will be relentless for much of the season.)


----------



## Macfury

Z-Nation: fun episode with a good series of gags (Abraham Lincoln penny). I'm enjoying the bizarre mix of dead serious and ridiculous.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Z-Nation: fun episode with a good series of gags (Abraham Lincoln penny). I'm enjoying the bizarre mix of dead serious and ridiculous.



Dead serious; I see what you did there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## heavyall

TWD S06E01: I was not a fan. Probably their weakest season premiere of the series for me. It started with really bad CGI, and only got worse. Too many rehashed scenarios where we already knew how it would work out. Walker attacks looked more fake than usual. Acting felt more stilted. Everything about it was just "off" and not up to the standards I expect.


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> TWD S06E01: I was not a fan. Probably their weakest season premiere of the series for me. It started with really bad CGI, and only got worse. Too many rehashed scenarios where we already knew how it would work out. Walker attacks looked more fake than usual. Acting felt more stilted. Everything about it was just "off" and not up to the standards I expect.


I didn't mind the CGI here, heavyall, but I did not watch it in HighDef either. What specifically looked bad?

I think one of the weaknesses of the series is a problem with the comic: 

"This place looks safe... wait, some bastard is wrecking our plan... abandon ship!!!"

. . . . . .

"Hey, that places looks safe..."


----------



## heavyall

Macfury said:


> I didn't mind the CGI here, heavyall, but I did not watch it in HighDef either. What specifically looked bad?


The scene where the semi falls off the cliff into the quarry was middle-school graphics club level stuff. Most of the scenes involving the swarm were really bad too. They were the kinds of scenes where if you can tell it's CGI, it's really jarring and removes you from the story for a moment.



> I think one of the weaknesses of the series is a problem with the comic:
> 
> "This place looks safe... wait, some bastard is wrecking our plan... abandon ship!!!"
> 
> . . . . . .
> 
> "Hey, that places looks safe..."


LOL. It's true. I think that's what's so refreshing about FearTWD: it's told from a different angle and hasn't started to get repetitive yet. To be fair, if one suspended our disbelief and allowed for the TWD survivor's scenario in the Atlanta area, it probably would break down into one CF after another. Any place that seemed safe would only be safe 'for now'.

Alexandria really COULD have been different, and probably would have continued on in relative peace and harmony for quite a while had "our" survivors not been summoned to it. Scratch that. They'd likely have been fine if Rick had never showed up.


----------



## fjnmusic

heavyall said:


> The scene where the semi falls off the cliff into the quarry was middle-school graphics club level stuff. Most of the scenes involving the swarm were really bad too. They were the kinds of scenes where if you can tell it's CGI, it's really jarring and removes you from the story for a moment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL. It's true. I think that's what's so refreshing about FearTWD: it's told from a different angle and hasn't started to get repetitive yet. To be fair, if one suspended our disbelief and allowed for the TWD survivor's scenario in the Atlanta area, it probably would break down into one CF after another. Any place that seemed safe would only be safe 'for now'.
> 
> 
> 
> Alexandria really COULD have been different, and probably would have continued on in relative peace and harmony for quite a while had "our" survivors not been summoned to it. Scratch that. They'd likely have been fine if Rick had never showed up.



When you say Rick's name, you have to pronounce it WRECK. 


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## Macfury

heavyall said:


> Alexandria really COULD have been different, and probably would have continued on in relative peace and harmony for quite a while had "our" survivors not been summoned to it. Scratch that. They'd likely have been fine if Rick had never showed up.


It all depends where the Walkers would have gone, had the truck not conveniently fallen at that exact moment, but the townsfolk in general would have been better off.

That was my beef with the Governor" arc--that guy had done a far better job of securing the town than Rick had ever done with his group. They were living well! With the governor dead, they should have refortified the town instead of going back to the prison--where all of the Governor's former citizens were killed within a couple of weeks. A prison should have been a great place to hole up if you actually checked the perimeter often enough to see that gaping hole the camera kept focusing on.

Many of Rick's plans have suffered from significant weakness and resulted in mass casualties--yet guys like Herschel keep telling him what a great leader he is.


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## fjnmusic

Well I hope you can all appreciate the benefits of a veiled face now. Let's call her Badass Niqab Pelltier.


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## Macfury

I did not really enjoy that episode. Too much random conflict passing a high drama. I enjoy seeing people build things up, but this has just been episode after episode of things going south.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> I did not really enjoy that episode. Too much random conflict passing a high drama. I enjoy seeing people build things up, but this has just been episode after episode of things going south.



You're serious? I loved this episode, as well as the Leftovers tonight on another channel. I think I've figured it out now. Everything I like you hate, and everything I hate, you like. 


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## Macfury

Fjn, you are more of a fan than a critical viewer. You like these series because you've chosen them, and you root for each episode like the home team.


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Fjn, you are more of a fan than a critical viewer. You like these series because you've chosen them, and you root for each episode like the home team.



And the problem with that is...?


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## Macfury

It's not a problem. It's your perception that other people are crapping on shows because you like them. They're applying a framework of critical thinking to the episodes while you are not. You can't expect the outcomes to be the same.



fjnmusic said:


> And the problem with that is...?


----------



## heavyall

SE6E02 was SOOOOOO much better than last week! Much better acting, much better script, much more realistic action, SFX were well hidden. Conflict, decisive action, pain, sorrow, (hollow)victory, the return of badass Carol.... nothing to complain about!


----------



## Macfury

heavyall said:


> SE6E02 was SOOOOOO much better than last week! Much better acting, much better script, much more realistic action, SFX were well hidden. Conflict, decisive action, pain, sorrow, (hollow)victory, the return of badass Carol.... nothing to complain about!


Certainly no distracting CGI. But I really don't want the plot to go in this direction. The "Wolves" are a bore. 

I really am no fan of big action setpieces that are unorchestrated--that is, there is no rhyme or reason to what people do. They get shot or don't get shot without reference to skill or strategy.


----------



## fjnmusic

heavyall said:


> SE6E02 was SOOOOOO much better than last week! Much better acting, much better script, much more realistic action, SFX were well hidden. Conflict, decisive action, pain, sorrow, (hollow)victory, the return of badass Carol.... nothing to complain about!



Agreed. This was the most kickass episode in a long time. And seeing Niqab Carol fighting off the bad guys was icing on the cake. It was also good to see that whatever Carl was baking didn't get burned. 


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## CubaMark

fjnmusic said:


> Agreed. This was the most kickass episode in a long time. And seeing Niqab Carol fighting off the bad guys was icing on the cake. It was also good to see that whatever Carl was baking didn't get burned.


Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!!

I know, right? :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> It was also good to see that whatever Carl was baking didn't get burned.


It was a good idea, but the timing of the gag made it fall flat.


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> It was a good idea, but the timing of the gag made it fall flat.


I didn't see it as much of a laugh gag as a tool. That onslaught is one of the few things in the entire series that a definitive time period. The entire attack was around 45 minutes.



Macfury said:


> I really am no fan of big action setpieces that are unorchestrated--that is, there is no rhyme or reason to what people do.


I interpreted it as actually quote a planned onslaught "Wolf Pack" style attack. Strike fast, precise, incite chaos and withdraw. I am waiting for more explanation of them watching. They had Aaron's bag of pictures, they knew of Morgan and Aaron/Darryl's existence and probably followed them back... watching, waiting for the group to be split up... Wolves Not Far.

To me it was one of the top 5 episodes of all Walking Dead Episodes. Is passifst Morgan getting a little long in the tooth sure.. but it was such a strong Secondary Character episode. No Rick, No Darryl, No Glenn... even sparse Maggie. 

I am waiting to see what "You're not supposed to be here...." means.


BReligion


----------



## Macfury

I think you're right about the timer.

If Morgan has inherited the pacifist mantle, he can't be far from death! Still, he isn't the pain in the ass that Dale was. I actually like him.

I was a little distracted this episode by some really obvious video shots that simply did not look like film.

Wolves. Build the walls a little higher. Game over.

I'm glad that the extras from _Lost_ could get some work as nameless slaughtered Alexandrians.


----------



## BReligion

So I thought this as the show went on... didn't catch all of the points (but most of them)... 

There definitely could be an argument made..theres-proof-the-walking-dead-showed-us-a-spy-last-night/

BReligion


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> If Morgan has inherited the pacifist mantle, he can't be far from death! Still, he isn't the pain in the ass that Dale was. I actually like him.


Yeah the "moral compass" of the show doesn't have a long lifespan... But his character has now been in all three phases... 

1) Doing what needed to be done - Putting down walkers right away at the beginning of the apocalypse but couldn't put down his wife.

2) Lost his marbles and put everyone down - Wife ate son, regretted he didn't kill the wife, so everyone was an enemy.

3) Met Buddha - Has become Jedi Zen Master Morgan, but starting to realize this isn't the way either.

Will be interesting to see where he goes from here.


BReligion


----------



## CubaMark

I like the Morgan character, and have been floored by Lennie James' portrayal of him in previous episodes. Happy to have him around for a bit longer.

On the matter of screen time, though, TWD core cast has been a little absent these two episodes....


----------



## Macfury

BReligion said:


> So I thought this as the show went on... didn't catch all of the points (but most of them)...
> 
> There definitely could be an argument made..theres-proof-the-walking-dead-showed-us-a-spy-last-night/


Yup!


----------



## BReligion

CubaMark said:


> On the matter of screen time, though, TWD core cast has been a little absent these two episodes....


Not so much episode 1, but I thought that was the beauty of Episode 2... it was all "Supporting" Cast... and they did it so well. It wasn't until the episode was over I felt the missing no Rick, Darryl, Glenn (as I psoted before).... no time during the episode 

BReligion


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> Yup!


I event went as far during the water-cooler discussion in the office to throw out the... "Wolf in Sheep's Clothing" mantra when people rebutted the fact she didn't have the W on her forehead 

I am not sold on it, I am not denying the points.. Sitting right on the fence as I always do.

BReligion


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> On the matter of screen time, though, TWD core cast has been a little absent these two episodes....


The decision to have these two distinct stories play out requires it. I'll bet we get more unity next week.


----------



## fjnmusic

*&quot;The Walking Dead&quot; Thread (untied and roaming free)*



BReligion said:


> I event went as far during the water-cooler discussion in the office to throw out the... "Wolf in Sheep's Clothing" mantra when people rebutted the fact she didn't have the W on her forehead
> 
> 
> 
> I am not sold on it, I am not denying the points.. Sitting right on the fence as I always do.
> 
> 
> 
> BReligion



It hinges on how you interpret the, "That's how we were able to—" line she says before Carl cuts her off. She could have let something slip, or she could have been talking about how she and Carl got over the wall. 


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## Macfury

Tossing in Aaron's lost photos essentially means that no solid conclusion can be drawn at this time.


----------



## BReligion

fjnmusic said:


> It hinges on how you interpret the, "That's how we were able to—" line she says before Carl cuts her off. She could have let something slip, or she could have been talking about how she and Carl got over the wall.


100%. During the episode that was how I too it (her and Carl sneaking out).. Didn't think anything about it at the time. Only after the show, catching my breath and reflecting did I open up to the possibility it could have been something other then that.

BReligion


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## CubaMark

Here's a pretty cool spoiler for an upcoming episode of Z-Nation   

(I've even used bit.ly to shorten it, so a hover won't give it away)


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## fjnmusic

** spoilers! **

Here's a recap of last week's episode S6E2 by Peter Paltridge.

http://www.walkingdeadforums.com/?p=78852


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## CubaMark

Z-Nation: odd little episode. The dentists thing was absurd. 

Walking Dead S06E02: Carol! Just caught this on the rewatch: when she arrives at the armory and a Wolf is shot, the lens is splattered....


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## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Z-Nation: odd little episode. The dentists thing was absurd.


Thoroughly enjoyed the episode and the Mark Twain touches. I love the way they do whatever the hell they want from episode to episode.


----------



## CubaMark

.......wheeeeeewwwwwww....... short of breath after that one. A major character gone.... another in peril.... and they didn't skimp on the zombies.

The budget for extras must be pretty well blown by now.

Great season so far!


----------



## Macfury

Solid, grueling episode.


----------



## fjnmusic

Well that was intense. 


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Well that was intense.


Did you watch "Talking Dead?" The guy who produces_ Leftovers_ was the one of the two guests, so you might like that.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Did you watch "Talking Dead?" The guy who produces_ Leftovers_ was the one of the two guests, so you might like that.



I did! He's well known as the time-shift guy, and they're having a great second season as well. Very interesting concept. 


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## fjnmusic

Lots of theories about Glenn on the boards today. The one I see with the most promise is that Glenn escapes down a manhole cover after playing dead with Nick's body on top of him for some time. The Season 6 trailer did show Maggie and Aaron looking through a sewer system, and those intestines probably weren't Glenn's since intestines don't pop out of your chest/shoulder area. If Glenn were covered in guts a la S1E2, then there is a precedent (as long as it doesn't rain). Also, Glenn was not in the couch in Talking Dead nor was he in the In Memoriam segment, and there are pics of UK with cast members we haven't met yet, like Jesus. I'd put my money on Glenn Lives.


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## Macfury

I don't doubt he's alive although the odds on that given the situation border on ridiculous.

I have a question about zombie infections on this series. Bites seem to leave an infection that's sure to kill and require immediate amputation (Herschel) for possible survival. The guy from town who was bitten in the back knew he was a dead man. However, getting mounds of zombie guts and blood in an open wound does not. What's up with that?




fjnmusic said:


> Lots of theories about Glenn on the boards today.


----------



## fjnmusic

*&quot;The Walking Dead&quot; Thread (untied and roaming free)*



Macfury said:


> I don't doubt he's alive although the odds on that given the situation border on ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> I have a question about zombie infections on this series. Bites seem to leave an infection that's sure to kill and require immediate amputation (Herschel) for possible survival. The guy from town who was bitten in the back knew he was a dead man. However, getting mounds of zombie guts and blood in an open wound does not. What's up with that?



Hard to argue "facts" and believability when we're talking about a show with re-animated corpses. Kind of like talking about religion. 


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## Macfury

Not believability--consistency.



fjnmusic said:


> Hard to argue "facts" and believability when we're talking about a show with re-animated corpses. Kind of like talking about religion.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Not believability--consistency.



Okay, consistency. But in early episodes, walkers took some effort to kill. Now you just touch them and their heads cave in. 

Also, THIS is why Glenn is still alive: Aaron and Maggie searching for him in the sewers (from the Season 6 Comicon trailer).









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## BReligion

***SPOILER** For those that haven't read the comics*



Macfury said:


> I have a question about zombie infections on this series. Bites seem to leave an infection that's sure to kill and require immediate amputation (Herschel) for possible survival. The guy from town who was bitten in the back knew he was a dead man. However, getting mounds of zombie guts and blood in an open wound does not. What's up with that?


*SPOILER* There is a feeling floating around that Rick may loose his hand (just like in the comics) *SPOILER*

Also, just like in 24 when we don't see people eat but we know they really do, in walking dead you don't see them Purell their hands after ever Zombie encounter :lmao:


BReligion


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Okay, consistency. But in early episodes, walkers took some effort to kill. Now you just touch them and their heads cave in.


I believe the decay effect is to blame.



fjnmusic said:


> Also, THIS is why Glenn is still alive: Aaron and Maggie searching for him in the sewers (from the Season 6 Comicon trailer).


Yep.


----------



## Macfury

BReligion said:


> *SPOILER* There is a feeling floating around that Rick may loose his hand (just like in the comics) *SPOILER*
> 
> Also, just like in 24 when we don't see people eat but we know they really do, in walking dead you don't see them Purell their hands after ever Zombie encounter :lmao:


I hope they don't follow the comic in that direction. It's even _drawn_ badly there.

If I were punching zombies in the mouth, I would at least wear gloves!


----------



## CubaMark

*Man killed 'zombie' friend after binge-watching The Walking Dead*









Police in Prewitt, NM arrested 23-year-old Damon Perry Thursday last week, after he allegedly beat his friend to death believing he was turning into a zombie.

According to Newser, Perry admitted to drinking "multiple" 40-ounce bottles of malt liquor, while binge-watching “The Walking Dead” on Netflix. 
According to Perry, his friend began to “change into a zombie” and he beat him with various household items, including a microwave oven and an electric guitar. In true zombie-killing mode, he finished his friend off with a knife to his head.

* * *​
KOB4 reports that when police interviewed Perry at police headquarters he explained he and his friend were drinking and binge watching the popular zombie apocalypse series on Netflix. He said Paquinn started to “change into a zombie” and tried to bite him. This was when Perry grabbed anything handy around the apartment to beat off his “zombie friend.”​
(DigitalJournal)


----------



## fjnmusic

Truth is indeed stranger than fiction. There should be a license to watch TV for some people.


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## Macfury

Don't know if you guys missed this one:

ZombiCon's 'zombie walk' turned into a run as gunman opened fire | Daily Mail Online


----------



## CubaMark

.

:-o

.


----------



## heavyall

fjnmusic said:


> Lots of theories about Glenn on the boards today. The one I see with the most promise is that Glenn escapes down a manhole cover after playing dead with Nick's body on top of him for some time.


I noticed that the trash bin that Nick and Glenn fell off of had an unusually large gap at the bottom -- just barely big enough for a smaller person to squeeze under. My theory is that's how Glenn will survive.


----------



## Macfury

Watched _Night of the Living Deb_ the other day--just because I like Martha Thayer from _Eagleheart _and Ray Wise from _Twin Peaks_. It probably won't please fans of excessive zombie gore, but I found the script almost consistently funny.

The line in this that I wanted to mention is that people bitten by the zombies are met by med teams at the end of the film, who put a band-aid on the wound and advise the victims to clean it daily: "Getting infection that way is an archaic way of thinking--they would literally need an open wound in their mouths just gushing blood. Zombies are filthy but you can't get it from a bite."


----------



## Macfury

_Z-Nation_ was OK. Somewhat repetitive with all of the electro-shocking sequences.


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## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> _Z-Nation_ was OK. Somewhat repetitive with all of the electro-shocking sequences.


Agreed... OK episode. I spent most of the episode wondering if Matt Frewer had been taking youth serum. The "collector", played by Tom Beyer, seemed to be channeling Frewer in his performance....


----------



## Macfury

He was really playing off the same manic energy as Frewer for sure. With so many of this season's episodes being parodies or homages to various books and films (last week's Mark Twain/Butch Cassidy hoamges no exception) I wounder if this is a nod to those gruesome _Collector _movies.

There was also that nod to the original _Planet of the Apes_.



CubaMark said:


> Agreed... OK episode. I spent most of the episode wondering if Matt Frewer had been taking youth serum. The "collector", played by Tom Beyer, seemed to be channeling Frewer in his performance....


Citizen Z is notably absent again.


----------



## fjnmusic

Morgan's back story tonight in S6E4. One and a half hours. 


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Morgan's back story tonight in S6E4. One and a half hours.


I like Morgan, but this is not where I would want to see that episode placed.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> I like Morgan, but this is not where I would want to see that episode placed.



Guess we're going to have to wait to find out what really happened to Glenn. 


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## fjnmusic

It's happening! Morgan bottle episode. Rated 10.0 on IMDb.com.


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## Macfury

That's hilarious--the fanboys are voting before it's over!



fjnmusic said:


> It's happening! Morgan bottle episode. Rated 10.0 on IMDb.com.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

Now down to 9.3. 

I give it a 7.7. Too many Zen cliches. I was waiting for Morgan to snatch the pebble form his hand.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> That's hilarious--the fanboys are voting before it's over!



Well, it actually airs at different times depending on what time zone you're in.


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## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Now down to 9.3.
> 
> 
> 
> I give it a 7.7. Too many Zen cliches. I was waiting for Morgan to snatch the pebble form his hand.



I liked Crazy Stupid Love dad guy as the Zen master. 


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----------



## Macfury

Yeah, he was good in the role. I bought into everything until the "big reveal" regarding his nemesis. Stacked the deck too high.

Saddest moment: the poor goat.



fjnmusic said:


> I liked Crazy Stupid Love dad guy as the Zen master.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Yeah, he was good in the role. I bought into everything until the "big reveal" regarding his nemesis. Stacked the deck too high.
> 
> 
> 
> Saddest moment: the poor goat.



Poor Tabatha.


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## BReligion

Macfury said:


> Yeah, he was good in the role. I bought into everything until the "big reveal" regarding his nemesis. Stacked the deck too high.


I'm just glad they didn't throw the spin that he was the inmate; now actually reformed by the apocalypse.

... and how good would it have been to see Morgan walking a goat down the train tracks to Terminus!!! :lmao:

BReligion


----------



## CubaMark

I enjoyed this episode. Lennie James (Morgan) is always fabulous, and John Carroll Lynch delivered a wonderful performance, too.

If they had to go drag out the "Is Glenn alive or dead?" storyline, I'm pleased with how they did it.


----------



## CubaMark

*The Walking Dead makes off-grid living look easy: but is it actually plausible?*








...for five years now we’ve watched through laced fingers as Rick and his fellow survivors have eked out a living without power, without sanitation, without any of the comforts we take for granted. But toward the end of the show’s acclaimed fifth season, everything changed. Our heroes found refuge in Alexandria: a gated community in the suburbs of Virginia, built before the rise of the undead as a sustainable, off-the-grid neighbourhood that is still fully functional. After enduring for so long in what were essentially makeshift shelters – including a campsite, a farmhouse, and even an abandoned maximum-security prison – Rick and the others can hardly believe the opulence and splendour of their new home.

Nor are they the only ones amazed. To anybody watching the show it ought to seem incredible, after seeing the apocalyptic state of the world, that a place like Alexandria could not only exist, but actively thrive.

* * *​
“A scenario like that is entirely possible,” says Phillip Vannini, professional ethnographer and director of the new documentary Life Off-Grid. “More than possible – it already exists.” Vannini points to towns in Canada’s Northwest Territories as examples of functioning “microgrids,” or power supplies designed to service communities “disconnected from the utility infrastructure.” While cities like Inuvik are powered by large generators that draw from fuel-filled cisterns nearby (those cisterns are periodically replenished by oil barges along the Mackenzie River), more northern communities have been turning to solar power for independence from fossil fuel (and from the federal government that supplies it).

* * *​
The real question posed by the success and glamour of Alexandria is why communities of its kind don’t exist like that around us now. If we can power our homes with solar panels, dispose of our waste organically, design our homes to better control heat gain and loss, heat with wood or sustainable electrical supply, draw our water from the rain and still live more or less comfortably, why don’t we?

Vannini is quick to point out that plenty of towns already do function mostly off the grid, even if we don’t think of them in those terms; the town of Jasper, Alta., for example, is run independent of the broader regional infrastructure. For the rest of us the major challenge would be to make the initial leap. “In principle there’s nothing about this that’s terribly complicated,” Vannini says. “What’s more complicated is to get started. It takes a special kind of will.”​
(Globe & Mail)


----------



## Macfury

I enjoyed the Roswell episode of _Z-Nation_. Not spectacular, but good fun.

_Z-Nation_ has been renewed for a third season.


----------



## CubaMark

Heh - yeah, that wasn't bad. I'm surprised they stuck with the "Thing", though. Should have been some other mode of transport on that base. 

I was expecting Citizen Z to tie in to this one, but he's still absent. Walking back from the Arctic Circle?


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> *The Walking Dead makes off-grid living look easy: but is it actually plausible?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...for five years now we’ve watched through laced fingers as Rick and his fellow survivors have eked out a living without power, without sanitation, without any of the comforts we take for granted. But toward the end of the show’s acclaimed fifth season, everything changed. Our heroes found refuge in Alexandria: a gated community in the suburbs of Virginia, built before the rise of the undead as a sustainable, off-the-grid neighbourhood that is still fully functional. After enduring for so long in what were essentially makeshift shelters – including a campsite, a farmhouse, and even an abandoned maximum-security prison – Rick and the others can hardly believe the opulence and splendour of their new home.
> 
> 
> 
> Nor are they the only ones amazed. To anybody watching the show it ought to seem incredible, after seeing the apocalyptic state of the world, that a place like Alexandria could not only exist, but actively thrive.
> 
> 
> 
> * * *​
> 
> 
> “A scenario like that is entirely possible,” says Phillip Vannini, professional ethnographer and director of the new documentary Life Off-Grid. “More than possible – it already exists.” Vannini points to towns in Canada’s Northwest Territories as examples of functioning “microgrids,” or power supplies designed to service communities “disconnected from the utility infrastructure.” While cities like Inuvik are powered by large generators that draw from fuel-filled cisterns nearby (those cisterns are periodically replenished by oil barges along the Mackenzie River), more northern communities have been turning to solar power for independence from fossil fuel (and from the federal government that supplies it).
> 
> 
> 
> * * *​
> 
> 
> The real question posed by the success and glamour of Alexandria is why communities of its kind don’t exist like that around us now. If we can power our homes with solar panels, dispose of our waste organically, design our homes to better control heat gain and loss, heat with wood or sustainable electrical supply, draw our water from the rain and still live more or less comfortably, why don’t we?
> 
> 
> 
> Vannini is quick to point out that plenty of towns already do function mostly off the grid, even if we don’t think of them in those terms; the town of Jasper, Alta., for example, is run independent of the broader regional infrastructure. For the rest of us the major challenge would be to make the initial leap. “In principle there’s nothing about this that’s terribly complicated,” Vannini says. “What’s more complicated is to get started. It takes a special kind of will.”​
> 
> 
> (Globe & Mail)



Cool article. Post-Wolves Alexandria will look substantially different, however.


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## Macfury

Yeah, I liked the little _Thing_ homage at the beginning, mapping out the perimeter of the craft. _Men in Black. Hangar 18._

I was surprised that--given Addy's intention to locate Citizen Z using the advanced technology--nothing came of it.

I like Addy much better as a character now that her boyfriend has been cut from the cast.




CubaMark said:


> Heh - yeah, that wasn't bad. I'm surprised they stuck with the "Thing", though. Should have been some other mode of transport on that base.
> 
> I was expecting Citizen Z to tie in to this one, but he's still absent. Walking back from the Arctic Circle?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I like Addy much better as a character now that her boyfriend has been cut from the cast.


The downside to "no boyfriend" is reduced screen time without that storyline. I feel like she's become a bit of a peripheral character, now that soldier boy (Vasquez) and Warren are developing a love (?) interest....


----------



## fjnmusic

Back to the WD and a new episode tonight...perhaps we will come closer to learning the fate of both Glenn and that lone Wolf.


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## Macfury

The episode was fine. However, the "stunt pacing" regarding questions of interest has had the opposite effect on me. I am now so used the the possibility that Glenn is dead that I have lost interest.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I am now so used the the possibility that Glenn is dead that I have lost interest.


Tricky, those writers. Leak photos of Maggie and Aaron in a sewer to give the fans a little hope that Glenn went underground, and the damn thing is nowhere near his dumpster.

Things aren't looking good for Mr. Dumbass....


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Tricky, those writers. Leak photos of Maggie and Aaron in a sewer to give the fans a little hope that Glenn went underground, and the damn thing is nowhere near his dumpster.
> 
> Things aren't looking good for Mr. Dumbass....


Hard to say how much time has passed now since he took that flop into a pit of grue.


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> Tricky, those writers. Leak photos of Maggie and Aaron in a sewer to give the fans a little hope that Glenn went underground, and the damn thing is nowhere near his dumpster.
> 
> 
> 
> Things aren't looking good for Mr. Dumbass....



Actually, Rick was the dumbass. However, trusting your safety with Nick was a pretty dumbass thing to do as well.


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----------



## CubaMark

fjnmusic said:


> Actually, Rick was the dumbass. However, trusting your safety with Nick was a pretty dumbass thing to do as well.


Hey! I knew that  I used the term because Glenn was the one who called Rick dumbass while he was hunkered down in the tank. I thought "Mr. Guy-who-called-Rick-a-Dumbass" was a bit too wordy :lmao:


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> Hey! I knew that  I used the term because Glenn was the one who called Rick dumbass while he was hunkered down in the tank. I thought "Mr. Guy-who-called-Rick-a-Dumbass" was a bit too wordy :lmao:



Why, that's the dumb-assed thing I evah hoyd! 


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## Macfury

dumb-assedest?


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> dumb-assedest?



Has to sound like "dumbest" for the joke to work.


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> Has to sound like "dumbest" for the joke to work.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Juts thinking of the superlative form, not particularly your Groucho joke.



> The other day I shot a walker in my pajamas...


----------



## Macfury

I saw a walker over by the viaduct...


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> Juts thinking of the superlative form, not particularly your Groucho joke.



Sometimes that's juts how she goes. 


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## Macfury

The latest episode of _Z-Nation_ was fun. Despite its crudeness, the series has a big heart at times. Loved Doc's "peyote kill."


----------



## fjnmusic

Daryl will be back on the radar this week. He certainly hasn't had a lot to do since coming to Alexandria. Seems nobody has much need for a squirrel hunter anymore, what with the baked cookies and all.


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## Macfury

OK episode. Really questioning the producers' decision to delay the Glenn resolution at this point. I am so used to him being gone that his death would not be shocking--and hi survival would no longer be cathartic. A huge misstep in pacing.


----------



## CubaMark

I'm beginning to be concerned that they aren't going to reveal Glenn's fate until next season.... :-O


----------



## BReligion

CubaMark said:


> I'm beginning to be concerned that they aren't going to reveal Glenn's fate until next season.... :-O


At this point all of the timelines have just about synced up. I think we will get the Glen information/closure either this week or next (at the mid season finale). They shouldn't extend it much beyond that. 


BReligion


----------



## heavyall

Macfury said:


> OK episode. Really questioning the producers' decision to delay the Glenn resolution at this point. I am so used to him being gone that his death would not be shocking--and hi survival would no longer be cathartic. A huge misstep in pacing.


You can't judge the pacing based on waiting a week for each episode. Like most AMC shows, the series is designed for binge watching. The people who are watching on Netflix are getting a much better viewing experience. 

I was really busy when FearTWD was airing, and I didn't end up seeing it until the whole first season was over. I watched all 6 episodes in one sitting (with the commercials cut out), and it was a vast improvement over waiting a week between.


----------



## fjnmusic

heavyall said:


> You can't judge the pacing based on waiting a week for each episode. Like most A&E shows, the series is designed for binge watching. The people who are watching on Netflix are getting a much better viewing experience.
> 
> 
> 
> I was really busy when FearTWD was airing, and I didn't end up seeing it until the whole first season was over. I watched all 6 episodes in one sitting (with the commercials cut out), and it was a vast improvement over waiting a week between.



Have you seen the weekly Fear the Walking Dead on an airplane episodes yet? 30 seconds apiece and once a week. If you think waiting a week for a one hour episode is hard, this is simply brutal. 


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## BReligion

fjnmusic said:


> Have you seen the weekly Fear the Walking Dead on an airplane episodes yet? 30 seconds apiece and once a week. If you think waiting a week for a one hour episode is hard, this is simply brutal.


They are doing that as a Promo thing more then anything. Once They have all aired they will be combined on the Website as a solid ~5-10 minute mini movie... I think it will even just be classified like the other Webisiodes are (but this time they are airing it on Cable).

Cartoon Network did something similar with the original "Star Wars: Clone Wars".. Their was like 25 2-3 minute episodes (1 per week) that they eventually combined into a solid DVD movie (Seasons 1 & 2 Volume 1, Season 3 Volume 2).

BReligion


----------



## Macfury

I lost interest in the airplane story.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I lost interest in the airplane story.


I'm still watching them, but the format doesn't work, IMHO.

Best idea, mentioned above, is waiting until you have a bunch of 'em to string together and make it worth the effort to view.


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> I'm still watching them, but the format doesn't work, IMHO.
> 
> 
> 
> Best idea, mentioned above, is waiting until you have a bunch of 'em to string together and make it worth the effort to view.



Bingewatch webisodes! That should take all of about five minutes. 


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## heavyall

fjnmusic said:


> Have you seen the weekly Fear the Walking Dead on an airplane episodes yet? 30 seconds apiece and once a week. If you think waiting a week for a one hour episode is hard, this is simply brutal.


I'm deliberately skipping those until it's over. Same thing I did with any of the previous webisodes (even though they were longer)


----------



## fjnmusic

heavyall said:


> I'm deliberately skipping those until it's over. Same thing I did with any of the previous webisodes (even though they were longer)



I quite enjoyed those we insides actually. The back story about bicycle girl and the crazy lady at the hospital. Well told stories, and proof that that they could still tell a story and create suspense even with completely new characters. I'm not sure the airplane thingy will be long enough to be interesting, other than to give us some back story on one of the new FTWD characters next season. Or maybe the plane crash lands and our yacht friends have to try to rescue the survivors...


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## CubaMark

fjnmusic said:


> I quite enjoyed those we insides actually. The back story about bicycle girl and the crazy lady at the hospital. Well told stories, and proof that that they could still tell a story and create suspense even with completely new characters.


Agreed... those were very well done. The bicycle girl - great pathos!



fjnmusic said:


> I'm not sure the airplane thingy will be long enough to be interesting, other than to give us some back story on one of the new FTWD characters next season. Or maybe the plane crash lands and our yacht friends have to try to rescue the survivors...


Gawd. Imagine the plane crash told in 30 second increments.... agonizing!


----------



## Macfury

The Glenn story was handled in about as pedestrian a fashion as possible. Low points.


----------



## CubaMark

I've seen a few different versions of last night's episode, and all had the final moment apparently cut off - was this your experience as well?

Enid: I don't care about her as a character, and don't think it was worth wasting screen time dealing with her. 

Ditto Jessie's kid. Not enough character development to make me give a rat's ass... though I guess his only true purpose in the story was revealed last night, as a probable threat to Carl.

A meh episode. Only one more until the holiday break that runs until mid-February....


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> I've seen a few different versions of last night's episode, and all had the final moment apparently cut off - was this your experience as well?
> 
> 
> 
> Enid: I don't care about her as a character, and don't think it was worth wasting screen time dealing with her.
> 
> 
> 
> Ditto Jessie's kid. Not enough character development to make me give a rat's ass... though I guess his only true purpose in the story was revealed last night, as a probable threat to Carl.
> 
> 
> 
> A meh episode. Only one more until the holiday break that runs until mid-February....



Cubamark, when the walls fell. 


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## CubaMark

fjnmusic said:


> Cubamark, when the walls fell.


*JLP:* Gilgamesh, a king. Gilgamesh, a king. At Uruk. He tormented his subjects. He made them angry. They cried out aloud, "Send us a companion for our king! Spare us from his madness!" Enkidu, a wild man... from the forest, entered the city. They fought in the temple. They fought in the streets. Gilgamesh defeated Enkidu. They became great friends. Gilgamesh and Enkidu at Uruk.

*Dathon:* [faintly] At Uruk.

*JLP:* The... the new friends went out into the desert together, where the Great Bull of Heaven was killing men by the hundreds. Enkidu caught the Bull by the tail. Gilgamesh struck him with his sword.

*Dathon:* [laughing] Gilgamesh.

*JLP:* They were... victorious. But... Enkidu fell to the ground, struck down by the gods. And Gilgamesh... wept bitter tears, saying, "He who was my companion, through adventure and hardship, is gone forever."
(obscure reference)​


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> *JLP:* Gilgamesh, a king. Gilgamesh, a king. At Uruk. He tormented his subjects. He made them angry. They cried out aloud, "Send us a companion for our king! Spare us from his madness!" Enkidu, a wild man... from the forest, entered the city. They fought in the temple. They fought in the streets. Gilgamesh defeated Enkidu. They became great friends. Gilgamesh and Enkidu at Uruk.
> 
> 
> 
> *Dathon:* [faintly] At Uruk.
> 
> 
> 
> *JLP:* The... the new friends went out into the desert together, where the Great Bull of Heaven was killing men by the hundreds. Enkidu caught the Bull by the tail. Gilgamesh struck him with his sword.
> 
> 
> 
> *Dathon:* [laughing] Gilgamesh.
> 
> 
> 
> *JLP:* They were... victorious. But... Enkidu fell to the ground, struck down by the gods. And Gilgamesh... wept bitter tears, saying, "He who was my companion, through adventure and hardship, is gone forever."
> 
> (obscure reference)​



Cubamark, with his eyes open wide!


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## Macfury

_Z Nation_'s Party With the Zeros was an unusually lush episode. Expansive and visually impressive. Great opening sequence and lots of inter-personal tension. Laughed at the ventriloquist gag.


----------



## CubaMark

I'm glad that wasn't the season-ender... two episodes left. A good ride, that one. Still trying to figure what's up with Warren... was her betrayal part of a plan? Tune in next week....


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> I'm glad that wasn't the season-ender... two episodes left. A good ride, that one. Still trying to figure what's up with Warren... was her betrayal part of a plan? Tune in next week....


It wasn't exactly a betrayal. Vasquez no longer cares about anything but killing Escorpion and it appears on the surface that he's no longer concerned if his action would cause the deaths of the crew or allow them to get Murphy to the California lab. I don't think Warren had much of a choice.

I've got an idea of what may be happening, which I'll post in SPOILER colour:


Murphy and the evil doc have conspired to escape. Many cartel members will allow themselves to be injected with the so-called vaccine, allowing Murphy to control them. Chaos ensues as vaccinated cartel fights unvaccinated. My gut feeling is that Vasquez will not survive the episode--we'll probably see Escorpion torn to pieces by Vasquez.


----------



## fjnmusic

Mid season finale tonight. Will we meet Negan? Jesus? Will Glenn meet Lucille? So many possibilities. Looks like the Alexandria Safe Zone is safe no longer. 


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## Macfury

I thought it was the Tamarians from _Star Trek TNG_ straight off.



CubaMark said:


> *JLP:* Gilgamesh, a king. Gilgamesh, a king. At Uruk. He tormented his subjects. He made them angry. They cried out aloud, "Send us a companion for our king! Spare us from his madness!" Enkidu, a wild man... from the forest, entered the city. They fought in the temple. They fought in the streets. Gilgamesh defeated Enkidu. They became great friends. Gilgamesh and Enkidu at Uruk.
> 
> *Dathon:* [faintly] At Uruk.
> 
> *JLP:* The... the new friends went out into the desert together, where the Great Bull of Heaven was killing men by the hundreds. Enkidu caught the Bull by the tail. Gilgamesh struck him with his sword.
> 
> *Dathon:* [laughing] Gilgamesh.
> 
> *JLP:* They were... victorious. But... Enkidu fell to the ground, struck down by the gods. And Gilgamesh... wept bitter tears, saying, "He who was my companion, through adventure and hardship, is gone forever."
> (obscure reference)​


----------



## CubaMark

Well.... that was an interesting way to take a mid-season break..... 


Hm.


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> Well.... that was an interesting way to take a mid-season break.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hm.



No dramatic tension for me. Now episode 9 of The Leftovers on the other hand...magnifique!


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## Macfury

Just too many disparate strings of disinterest. The opener action set piece was nice, but...

* suddenly Glenn is a bit player?
* The Wolf sub-plot was a real snoozer. Carol seemed way out of character and Morgan's moral confusion was a bore.
* Deanna seemed to be reduced to the status of a caricature. Her exit was a phony set-up.
* Carl covering up for the goof who tried to kill him--and opening up the house--was preposterous.

However, I like the bloody sheets routine. Still makes me feel nervous.



CubaMark said:


> Well.... that was an interesting way to take a mid-season break.....
> 
> 
> Hm.


----------



## Macfury

That series is so laconic, it might be hard for me to spot any moment of dramatic tension at all.



fjnmusic said:


> No dramatic tension for me. Now episode 9 of The Leftovers on the other hand...magnifique!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Just too many disparate strings of disinterest. The opener action set piece was nice, but...


I'm surprised they didn't off anybody right at the beginning. Maggie was certainly a candidate - just a little tension there. I'm surprised Glenn wasn't over the fence the moment he saw her on the platform...

The Wolf / Morgan / Carol. Yeah, I don't care for this much at all. Even with Morgan's pacifist mentality, surely the larger context takes precedence. And Carol - as you say - was 'way out of character.

Carl / Ron. Agreed. Put a bullet in that brat's brain. 

I'm wondering what's going to happen with Sam... is he zombie snacks, or will Rick pull off an amazing rescue and win Jessie's heart for good? (dramatic voice-over: These are the Days of Our Lives!)

The sheets - my first thought was to check the Alexandria forecast for rain.... 

*And on The Leftovers:*


Macfury said:


> That series is so laconic, it might be hard for me to spot any moment of dramatic tension at all.


Here we disagree. I'm really enjoying Season 2, after Season 1 seemed like it had no place new to go. But no spoilers, please - I'm 3 episodes behind!


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> I'm wondering what's going to happen with Sam... is he zombie snacks, or will Rick pull off an amazing rescue and win Jessie's heart for good? (dramatic voice-over: These are the Days of Our Lives!)


Somebody may have to punch that pale-faced veal in the head for his own good. And seriously, which kid listens to _Tiptoe through the Tulips_ as background?



CubaMark said:


> Here we disagree. I'm really enjoying Season 2, after Season 1 seemed like it had no place new to go. But no spoilers, please - I'm 3 episodes behind!


I never bought into this mass depression following the event. People have gotten over far worse disasters than these slack browed sad sacks.


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> However, I like the bloody sheets routine. Still makes me feel nervous.


The return of the Meat sweaters! (Or ponchos, I prefer sweaters )

It was an okay episode... I mean in the bitter end, at least Deanna finally learned to shoot for the head 

.. Also I thought the 2 minute Prologue after the episode was a better 2 minutes then most of the episode.

The Walking Dead Trailer (Season 6, Part 2 Prologue) - IMDb

BReligion


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## Macfury

BReligion said:


> .. Also I thought the 2 minute Prologue after the episode was a better 2 minutes then most of the episode.


It was fine, though I'm not so keen on them jamming in Negan so quickly. I sometimes enjoy seeing people foraging, building, planning, and taking a census of who is left just for my information (six original Alexandrians?)--not going from zombie overload to Wolves to butting heads with Saviors inside of three episodes.


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## Macfury

_Z-Nation_--a mild episode so far, although I enjoyed seeing the backstories of the characters, from Doc's work as a counselor, to Murphy's jail stretch, to Addy's hockey game adventures. I'm guessing this ain't the CDC lab, but who knows?


----------



## Macfury

*Z-NATION SPOILERS:*







Fun finale on _Z-Nation_, though not a terribly exciting cliffhanger. 

*I enjoyed the last battle with the Zeros, particularly the machete manoeuvre. 
* I felt that the destruction of the sub occurred a little too quickly-I would have liked to see a little more of what happened. Pretty clear that 10K is one of the helmeted soldiers in the boat. 
* Are we supposed to trust L'Escorpion now? Sure he has food and weapons and Z-weed, but the crew seemed a little too quick to accept his offer. 
* Enjoyed seeing Citizen Z loading up the sled with his Husky as he decides to pull it. Maybe he'll have a more interesting place to go to now. I noticed actor DJ Qualls a a regular in the Amazon series, _The Man in the High Castle_, so that may explain some of his absence in this series.
* As predicted, Lucy is growing up in somewhat accelerated fashion--but much slower than I would have expected.


----------



## fjnmusic

Mid-season premiere tonight, just in time for Valentine's Day. "No Way Out" S6E9 to me had everything needed to make it one of the best episodes so far. 


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## CubaMark

.


Is it possible for a television show about the undead to be poetic? 'Cause that, my friends, was ******ing _poetic_. 















:yikes:

:clap:​


----------



## Macfury

Agreed--a good episode. I'll admit that I felt sorry for the whiny kid, even though I originally wanted him to be eaten. I liked the actor who was playing the head of Negin's motorcycle brigade. Great bazooka scene, too.

Rick has frequently made a lot of tactical and strategic errors and this episode is no exception. How many original Alexandrians are left now? Two?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Agreed--a good episode. I'll admit that I felt sorry for the whiny kid, even though I originally wanted him to be eaten. I liked the actor who was playing the head of Negin's motorcycle brigade. Great bazooka scene, too.


Great "hero moment" for Darryl. 

I was convinced that either Sasha or Abraham had met their end...



Macfury said:


> Rick has frequently made a lot of tactical and strategic errors and this episode is no exception. How many original Alexandrians are left now? Two?


I think I counted about 7... the bunch who were holed up in the infirmary, and the three or four who came out of their houses during the final melee....


----------



## CubaMark

I may need to change my shorts.... ROFL LOL LMAO





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## fjnmusic

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## Macfury

Ha!


----------



## CubaMark

Heh heh heh. Good one. The "Richonne" shippers are still having their own private orgasms after that episode.

Would have liked to have had Jesus' perspective of the naked lady with a sword! 

Anybody also catching "The Talking Dead" - the post-TWD show that recaps the episode with guest cast (and other) members? Firefly / Castle star Nathan Fillion appeared... but could barely get a word in edgewise. Danai Guerra can _talk_!! :lmao:


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> Heh heh heh. Good one. The "Richonne" shippers are still having their own private orgasms after that episode.
> 
> 
> 
> Would have liked to have had Jesus' perspective of the naked lady with a sword!
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody also catching "The Talking Dead" - the post-TWD show that recaps the episode with guest cast (and other) members? Firefly / Castle star Nathan Fillion appeared... but could barely get a word in edgewise. Danai Guerra can _talk_!! :lmao:



It's actually funny how little Michonne says on the show but how much Danai likes to converse in the post show analysis. It's like the difference between her dreadlocks and her short short hair. We've been enjoying Chris Hardwick's little post game wrap up for several years now—great for decompressing—and his forays into Talking Bad and Talking Saul as well. AMC sure knows how to milk a franchise.


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## CubaMark




----------



## fjnmusic

Loved the Ladies Only episode yesterday. Carol and Maggie can sure kick ass when they need to.


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## Macfury

Felt too much like a retread of the Terminus episode.

It passed the time fine, but wasn't outstanding.



fjnmusic said:


> Loved the Ladies Only episode yesterday. Carol and Maggie can sure kick ass when they need to.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CubaMark

+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## Macfury

That's rousing... like the founding of Oklahoma or something.


----------



## Macfury

Taking bets now--will Shiva the tiger make it to the series?


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## CubaMark

Season 6, Episode 14 (no spoilers)

- Nice to see them finally doing for defence something they should have done long ago... (in the background, not commented upon). 
- Somebody give that man a medal for the most unorthodox distraction technique in the midst of crisis
- Unexpected departure... will another heroic return come down the line....?
- Definitely building up to a heckuva last few episodes.....


----------



## Macfury

I liked the lyrical feel of parts of the episode. Nice and quiet. As I've said before I enjoy seeing people doing some of the routine things required to secure the defenses and stock up the larders.

Not missing a certain someone who I got tired of long ago.


----------



## fjnmusic

CubaMark said:


> Season 6, Episode 14 (no spoilers)
> 
> 
> 
> - Nice to see them finally doing for defence something they should have done long ago... (in the background, not commented upon).
> 
> - Somebody give that man a medal for the most unorthodox distraction technique in the midst of crisis
> 
> - Unexpected departure... will another heroic return come down the line....?
> 
> - Definitely building up to a heckuva last few episodes.....



Actually they gave that man a medal—a metal head walker, but he was too hard to stab.


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## Macfury

*SPOILER ALERT:*








Darryl: red or dead?


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> *SPOILER ALERT:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Darryl: red or dead?





Spoiler



Ima go with shoulder shot. He'll be okay.


----------



## CubaMark

Darryl will live.

But that episode? Terrible. 

Most of Alexandria's core fighters just up and leave the compound, while a Saviour's attack is expected at any moment?
Darryl's hotheadedness from season 1 has long since been toned down... this one-man revenge mission over a character he barely knows?
The Saviours fighters are incredibly Ninja-like for a bunch of southern yahoos with guns... twice in one hostage-taking. WTF?
Carol the reluctant badass. The character's transformation from mousy abused housewife to warrior woman and now to nervous (but still dangerous) Nancy hasn't been handled well.
A disappointing penultimate episode....


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> [*]Most of Alexandria's core fighters just up and leave the compound, while a Saviour's attack is expected at any moment?


The scriptwriters are their key allies.



CubaMark said:


> [*]Darryl's hotheadedness from season 1 has long since been toned down... this one-man revenge mission over a character he barely knows?


I think he is more angry at himself, rather than avenging the irritating character who died.



CubaMark said:


> [*]The Saviours fighters are incredibly Ninja-like for a bunch of southern yahoos with guns... twice in one hostage-taking. WTF?


Yep--that guy has come a long way from useless tool to ninja, in a few days



CubaMark said:


> *]Carol the reluctant badass. The character's transformation from mousy abused housewife to warrior woman and now to nervous (but still dangerous) Nancy hasn't been handled well.


I don't find this transformation particularly interesting.


----------



## BReligion

I'm not getting fancy like Macfury with all the quotes 

Doesn't that say something about how far Alexandria has come? There is a level of comfort that Rick and the core group can leave and still feel the place can be defended? Remember for all intense and purposes the Weak Alexandrians have all been thinned from the herd.... not saying it's a good idea, but hey the show must move on.

Darryl: Feels nothing but guilt. He is and always has been a character who wears his emotions on his sleeve, he's no more hot headed then when Beth got grabbed. He was always angry at himself I think for letting Dwight live and get the best of him. Dwight killing a friend of his, the only town doctor (don't get me started on that point from last week) with his own weapon... It would be like Vader killing Lando with Luke's own light saber

What do southerners like to do.... go hunting... Darryl was the same way? Isn't he a southern Yahoo? He's a tracker, a hunter and can sneak up on almost anyone. Not saying they are Darryl's but they have survived this long... and we don't know if Dwight really is a useless tool or that's just what he was portraying to get help. I mean really they did grab Darryl once and hog tie him over night.

Carol has arched to not sure what she is. I think Alexandria has broken her. She's had time to reflect on everything she's "had to do" to survive and it has her shaken. She's revisited emotionally her times with Ed and I think meeting Paula and staring into the Abyss of what she's teetering on scared the hell (or religion) back into her. That episode was so good in the mirroring of the women between the camps.

Can't wait for the 90 minute finale.

BReligion


----------



## Macfury

BReligion said:


> Doesn't that say something about how far Alexandria has come? There is a level of comfort that Rick and the core group can leave and still feel the place can be defended? Remember for all intense and purposes the Weak Alexandrians have all been thinned from the herd.... not saying it's a good idea, but hey the show must move on.


The show seems to have a real cheapness with extras--unless they're CGI zombies. At any given time you get only half the main cast and few extras so that you get no sense that an army of Alexandrians is holding the fort.


----------



## fjnmusic

http://topratedviral.com/2016/-the-walking-dead-season-6-to-be-norman-reedus-last/1001387


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## John Clay

fjnmusic said:


> http://topratedviral.com/2016/-the-w...s-last/1001387
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


It would be nice if you'd mentioned that there were spoilers on that link...


----------



## Macfury

John Clay said:


> It would be nice if you'd mentioned that there were spoilers on that link...


I agree. I always assume a contentless post will not contain a spoiler.


----------



## fjnmusic

John Clay said:


> It would be nice if you'd mentioned that there were spoilers on that link...




Sorry. Did you get to page 5? It's a prediction, not a spoiler.


----------



## fjnmusic

Tonight, Negan comes.


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## Macfury

It will be an anti-climax. I don't believe the arc has built up any tension toward his arrival.


----------



## CubaMark

*Ugh.*


.


----------



## Macfury

That was a weak script juiced up with the threat of violence. They ramped up the forced drama and uncharacteristically bad decision making of the characters to the degree that I began to lose my connection with them.


----------



## BReligion

I thought it was good... not the greatest thing I have ever seen, but still very good.
The entire episode was one great big mind screw. Psychological warfare at it best... It tore them and had them beat long before "he" even showed up 

I am not sure what you mean by "uncharacteristically bad decision making of the characters"..

... and not sure if you guys watch Talking Dead.. or its still too early for the discussion but.... #whowasit? :heybaby:

BReligion


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## Macfury

Bad decision making:

* All of the major characters leaving Alexandria at once--and more of them piling on for poor reasons.
* Not guessing that they would be continuously roadblocked.
* Constantly walking out into the open under potential threat of enemy fire.

Lazy writing: 
* This was just a rehash of the Terminus rabbit run plot.
* Assumption by the bad guys that Rick no longer carried the rocket launcher that blew away just as many of them before.


----------



## Macfury

This morning I checked on some other opinions. Some brutal reviews from long-time supporters of the show (containing spoilers, of course):

The Walking Dead; Recap, Season Six Finale; Last Day on Earth; - The Atlantic

The Walking Dead season 6 finale: "Last Day on Earth" is the worst episode the show has ever done - Vox


----------



## fjnmusic

BReligion said:


> I thought it was good... not the greatest thing I have ever seen, but still very good.
> 
> The entire episode was one great big mind screw. Psychological warfare at it best... It tore them and had them beat long before "he" even showed up
> 
> 
> 
> I am not sure what you mean by "uncharacteristically bad decision making of the characters"..
> 
> 
> 
> ... and not sure if you guys watch Talking Dead.. or its still too early for the discussion but.... #whowasit? :heybaby:
> 
> 
> 
> BReligion



I liked it, and it was interesting to watch Rick's confidence fall from the garden of Eden scene with Michonne at the start of the previous episode to where he has just just lost every power he used to have when he must account to Negan, who certainly had every right to be pissed off after having so many of his men killed, even in their sleep. Not showing who it was I can live with, since this story was the lead up to the baddest villain so far. TTD afterward and a half hour live Facebook discussion on Chris Hardwick's page afterwards help to answer some lingering questions.

Personally? I think the point of view shots from inside the van with the light shining through the bullet holes along with the point of view shot at the end are a pretty strong hint as to who the victim might be.


----------



## Macfury

Rick's leadership has been a crapshoot since day one from a strategic point of view.


----------



## CubaMark

One thing about the TWD writers, they do know how to kill time. Just not in an entertaining way. This whole roaming around the countryside in a winnebago got tired real fast.

How exactly did they manage to get Rick et al. corralled into exactly the spot in the woods where they had themselves all organized in a circle with their vehicles corralled, etc.?

On the matter of Alexandria's defence, they at least gave lip service to the matter of having so many fighters away from defending the homeland, saying that the rest of the folks were "ready" and had a "plan". But it smacked of filling in a plot hole unconvincingly.

(As an aside, I don't know why they haven't dedicated a few days to moving every vehicle within a mile's radius of Alexandria into a wide vehicular barrier around the community permiter. It would certainly keep the Walkers away, pose a logistical challenge for mass invasion efforts, and provide some peace of mind).

Negan's introduction wasn't bad... Jeffery Dean Morgan pretty much embodies the character, and can chew scenery as well as anyone. But I was disappointed with Andrew Lincoln's portrayal of Rick in that moment. He seemed completely lost and on the brink of awarding Negan with some pants-pissing. I expected a little more "together" Rick.

Lastly - Lucille is unleashed. And I really, really hate the cliffhanger. In my mind it would have been so much richer a season-ender to give us the identity of the main character's death, giving us some of the group's horrified reaction, and leave us wondering between now and next season how they'll get over XXXX's death while becoming a functional sub-group of Negan's mob.


----------



## Dr.G.

My neighbor asked me who I thought did Negan kill? I asked who was Negan. He was aghast when he asked where have I been for the past six seasons of "Walking Dead". Luckily, I had heard of the show since my son watched it from the start. Not being someone who likes the zombie-genre, I never watched, even though he urged me to watch since it took place in Georgia, where I lived for five years.

So, no spoiler alerts here. Sorry.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> One thing about the TWD writers, they do know how to kill time. Just not in an entertaining way. This whole roaming around the countryside in a winnebago got tired real fast.


I felt like taking all of the scenes of the Winnebago going in reverse, stitching them together, and speeding them up to the theme from _Benny Hill_.



CubaMark said:


> How exactly did they manage to get Rick et al. corralled into exactly the spot in the woods where they had themselves all organized in a circle with their vehicles corralled, etc.?


it was very unlikely that it would have worked out that way.Negan knew they were going to the doctor THAT DAY?



CubaMark said:


> On the matter of Alexandria's defence, they at least gave lip service to the matter of having so many fighters away from defending the homeland, saying that the rest of the folks were "ready" and had a "plan". But it smacked of filling in a plot hole unconvincingly.


That chicken liver preacher turned the corner on learning about guns a week ago.



CubaMark said:


> But I was disappointed with Andrew Lincoln's portrayal of Rick in that moment. He seemed completely lost and on the brink of awarding Negan with some pants-pissing. I expected a little more "together" Rick.


Rick's plan stunk from square one. Lincoln's acting here reminded me of Sarah Wayne Callies' reaction to Rick being alive in the first season. Lots of wide eyed gawping.



CubaMark said:


> Lastly - Lucille is unleashed. And I really, really hate the cliffhanger. In my mind it would have been so much richer a season-ender to give us the identity of the main character's death, giving us some of the group's horrified reaction, and leave us wondering between now and next season how they'll get over XXXX's death while becoming a functional sub-group of Negan's mob.


Would rather have seen one of the characters taking the first cudgel and then wonder if they will die.


----------



## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> My neighbor asked me who I thought did Negan kill? I asked who was Negan. He was aghast when he asked where have I been for the past six seasons of "Walking Dead". Luckily, I had heard of the show since my son watched it from the start. Not being someone who likes the zombie-genre, I never watched, even though he urged me to watch since it took place in Georgia, where I lived for five years.
> 
> So, no spoiler alerts here. Sorry.


Real Georgia scenery too--mostly around Atlanta.


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Real Georgia scenery too--mostly around Atlanta.


Yes, I am familiar with the Atlanta region having spent three years at the University of Georgia, in Athen, GA.


----------



## Dr.G.

Corporations threaten to pull out of states over transgender bathroom law - World - CBC News


----------



## CubaMark

Dr.G. said:


> Corporations threaten to pull out of states over transgender bathroom law - World - CBC News


Heh - I was scratching my head at how this fit into the thread. That's great!


----------



## Macfury

I hope the state of Georgia stands up to them. People are simply too interested in what actors think.


----------



## Macfury

The season kick-off of FTWD was pretty pedestrian stuff, with the same dull characters largely taking centre stage. These people would be background walker fodder in Alexandria. Would have loved to see the destruction of LA close-up, but no--the writers need to show these duds eel-fishing and enjoying a pleasant nosh. Victor is the only bright spot here, although Daniel may have some potential. 

If the producers want to prove that all of these characters are potentially expendable, then I nominate Travis for rapid extermination.


----------



## Dr.G.

"If the producers want to prove that all of these characters are potentially expendable, then I nominate Travis for rapid extermination." Travis ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Oh the humanity ..........................


----------



## Macfury

I might be able to squeeze out a tear for Travis as his entrails are consumed.



Dr.G. said:


> "If the producers want to prove that all of these characters are potentially expendable, then I nominate Travis for rapid extermination." Travis ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Oh the humanity ..........................


----------



## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> I might be able to squeeze out a tear for Travis as his entrails are consumed.


XX)XX)XX)


----------



## BReligion

Just like most of last season, the season premier of Fear The Walking Dead can be summed up in one word/sound/expression.

... meh ...

BReligion


----------



## Macfury

The most interesting stuff was the destruction of LA, and all we got is a brief shot of flames in the distance.



BReligion said:


> Just like most of last season, the season premier of Fear The Walking Dead can be summed up in one word/sound/expression.
> 
> ... meh ...
> 
> BReligion


----------



## CubaMark

I'm not feeling this opening storyline of Season 2 - that so quickly after the fall of everything, an apparently well-organized, sinister, pirate force is out cruising the coast and entrapping wee innocent girls with access to a radio. We'll see how they handle it next week, I guess, but I'm not optimistic.


----------



## Macfury

The second episode was much, much worse. Dumb ideas--we'll take your kids on board a ship under potential attack that's short of supplies! Dull characters running around looking constipated and a story arc stuck in neutral. I actually fell asleep watching at one point. Someone give Travis an enema--or put him out of his misery.


----------



## fjnmusic

One good line from Nick though: "Listen, I know pharmaceuticals."


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## Macfury

Nick can be the Harpo Marx of the series.


----------



## BReligion

Second episode was another meh, slightly better then the first... Pharmaceuticals line was funny. The episode also gave an interesting perspective on perhaps being able to survive on that island or one like it. Grow your own food, watch the tide, fix your fences.. doesn't seem like a bad spot. They could probably have lasted a while there.

Remember at this point they aren't thinking about living on the boat, its still a travelling vessel to everyone but Strand. They still had hopes of going up or down the coast to find civilization. Also a few of them are still clinging on to hope and humanity. Help anyone they can. 

Like I've said before, it's okay. Not great, miles from TWD, and I think it's got HUGE shoes to try and fill and just not there yet.

BReligion


----------



## Macfury

BReligion said:


> Not great, miles from TWD, and I think it's got HUGE shoes to try and fill and just not there yet.


I don't think that the series could make me care about these characters at this point. Other than Strand, anyone could be devoured and I wouldn't even bat an eye.


----------



## Macfury

A better episode tonight. People getting down to the business of survival and a tense confrontation on the beach that was well staged.


----------



## fjnmusic

A little grittier than some have been. Nick and Chris have had to come to terms with their new realities very quickly. I don't hold much hope for the burn kid but Alex looks like she has a future. 


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## Macfury

Another sad sack episode. I'm not buying any of this stuff. The budget on this series looks like it would buy dinner for the cast of _The Walking Dead_.


----------



## fjnmusic

I enjoyed it. Nice to see there's life after Disney for Jesse McCartney. 


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## Macfury

Can we dump this family and start with a new one? What a bunch of pathetic characters. And dad still needs an enema.


----------



## Macfury

Let's dump the second most interesting character in the cast on a ridiculous and rapid ride to mental dissolution, then make the most interesting one look weak and ineffectual. Let's isolate the two most despicably dumb characters on their own pathetic quest, in which I have no concern about what happens to them. And let's see Johnny Depp pull that dumb blood camouflage trick for the 20th time as he bumbles around the landscape doing heaven knows what. What a mess!


----------



## CubaMark

I don't think I've ever seen the personification of a "train wreck" until the advent of this show. Holy freakin' cow. :yikes:


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> I don't think I've ever seen the personification of a "train wreck" until the advent of this show. Holy freakin' cow. :yikes:


I think the _Walking Dead_ shows want to be known as the "Are they dead yet" franchise. We're now being told, not so subtly, that the actor playing Daniel will return in the third season. It's just a tiresome game at this point.


----------



## BReligion

Really I saw it as Daniel was done.. Not sure where the Daniel will return came from.

At this point the show really has tried to much to follow the original Walking Dead Formula, and it just hasn't hooked. One family struggling amongst the chaos, pulling in others to become an extended family. 
I kind of hope we really do see the family broken up, and move to three individual story lines. Similar to Game of Thrones, hopping between concurrent story timeline. 

BReligion


----------



## Macfury

BReligion said:


> Really I saw it as Daniel was done.. Not sure where the Daniel will return came from.
> 
> At this point the show really has tried to much to follow the original Walking Dead Formula, and it just hasn't hooked. One family struggling amongst the chaos, pulling in others to become an extended family.
> I kind of hope we really do see the family broken up, and move to three individual story lines. Similar to Game of Thrones, hopping between concurrent story timeline.
> 
> BReligion


My only moderate interest is in the Mom/Victor story line. Travis, Chris and Nick could be killed instantly and I wouldn't bat an eye.


----------



## Macfury

The first episode back of FTWD was truly appalling. That kid is the worst actor playing the most unsympathetic character I've encountered in quite some time.


----------



## fjnmusic

Macfury said:


> The first episode back of FTWD was truly appalling. That kid is the worst actor playing the most unsympathetic character I've encountered in quite some time.



And in our continued tradition of taking opposite sides of the issue, I quite enjoyed the first episode back, which was last week by the way. Tonight was the second episode of the second half. Seeing Nick discover ways to survive was very well depicted, and the actor, Frank Dillane, is the most interesting character of the lot, IMHO. 


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## Macfury

fjnmusic said:


> And in our continued tradition of taking opposite sides of the issue, I quite enjoyed the first episode back, which was last week by the way. Tonight was the second episode of the second half. Seeing Nick discover ways to survive was very well depicted, and the actor, Frank Dillane, is the most interesting character of the lot, IMHO.



I would put "Dud" Dillane at the bottom of the barrel, although all of the characters are now fighting actively for least interesting. I used to discuss this show with a few people who have tuned out forever, and Dillane is often cited as a prime cause--not so much Dillane but tone deaf producers who are stupid enough to give him a central role.

The mid-season premiere was the lowest rated of all of the FTWD episodes.


----------



## Macfury

The last two FTWD episodes were such appalling trainwrecks. I laughed out loud at the scene where that drug addled punk was using his "junkie" skills to cut the strength of some medicine. Hilarious! Travis looks like he really needs to use the bathroom in almost every scene where he emotes.

The two-hour premiere of season 3 of _Z-Nation_ was a little odd. The story was serviceable but a complete flashback, so not much tension about who survives. Really liked the "helmet" zombies though. New villain group might be interesting.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> The last two FTWD episodes were such appalling trainwrecks


We continue to agree, and the fabric of space-time continues to pull at a thread.... 



Macfury said:


> The two-hour premiere of season 3 of _Z-Nation_ was a little odd.


Thanks for mentioning this - I didn't realize it was starting up again. Off to watch, back with critiques anon.


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> The last two FTWD episodes were such appalling trainwrecks. I laughed out loud at the scene where that drug addled punk was using his "junkie" skills to cut the strength of some medicine. Hilarious! Travis looks like he really needs to use the bathroom in almost every scene where he emotes.
> .


I have to disagree (mostly). I have really been enjoying FTWD since it came back. It's been stellar by comparison to the first season, and better then the first half.... except for the Travis and Chris storyline. I completely tune out when they come on the screen. Hopefully Travis, Chris and the frat boys decide to have an appocokegger and get so hammered they get what's been long since coming. On a huge positive, I don't want the daughter to be eaten ever time she opens her mouth. She's grown as a character on me. The butterfly knife seen was interesting. Showing their may be more to her then we know.

I do find the hotel interesting. Much like the boat, it seems like an obvious place to try to hunker down for a bit. Interesting to see them explore the logistics of dealing with securing such a massive place both from the dead and the living who may also want it.

BReligion


----------



## Macfury

BReligion said:


> I do find the hotel interesting. Much like the boat, it seems like an obvious place to try to hunker down for a bit. Interesting to see them explore the logistics of dealing with securing such a massive place both from the dead and the living who may also want it.


I look at the hotel as an intensely stupid place to hunker down. It offers no advantages, lots of glass, very few food sources. No way to prevent walkers or enemies from approaching. All you need to do is to set fire to it and you have to run out.

The jail in WD was a great place to stay--except for that ridiculous business of a gaping hole in the back fence that nobody on patrol ever saw.

I'm all for smart logistics being played out, but this is just sad. Also watching Mom supposedly tough talking the other losers into letting them stay? That pair had no leverage anyway. They couldn't stop anyone from staying.

Best moment--"D'ohhhh, they stole the boat!"


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> I look at the hotel as an intensely stupid place to hunker down. It offers no advantages, lots of glass, very few food sources. No way to prevent walkers or enemies from approaching. All you need to do is to set fire to it and you have to run out.
> 
> The jail in WD was a great place to stay--except for that ridiculous business of a gaping hole in the back fence that nobody on patrol ever saw.
> 
> I'm all for smart logistics being played out, but this is just sad. Also watching Mom supposedly tough talking the other losers into letting them stay? That pair had no leverage anyway. They couldn't stop anyone from staying.
> 
> Best moment--"D'ohhhh, they stole the boat!"


Very few food sources? Hundreds of rooms with mini bars of bottled water and snacks (not the most healthy, but food none the less). Probably as much canned food as the prison would have had. I would guess since they are in Mexico they would always have a ration of hurricane supplies stocked also. 

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. Mall, hotel, resort.. all places that are too hard to hold down. We as people who know of zombie lore (and avid fans of the genre know better). 

Speaking of which... this may be fun. Where/where is your ideal place to hunker down. I mean, as a fan of the genre I (geek proclamation) do find myself thinking on occasion in somewhere like costco, "yeah this would do in a pinch for the Zombie Apocalypse". Lots of food, roof space for water and crops, things to make weapons, fire. Can secure it pretty well. Only problems, no light and within a few weeks there's a lot of rotting food to have to dispose of, can compost some but not all.

Mine is to go to get one of those prefab cabins you see at like KOA resorts. Drag it out to the middle of a train bridge over a gorge with fast moving river. Bolt that sucker to the tracks. You can lower a bucket on a rope for fresh water. Remove a few of the ties close to the end and have a small series of boards you use on the rails to get to and from the cabin leaving a big enough gab when you lift the boards that any wandering or chasing walkers would just fall down into the fast moving river and be swept away.

BReligion


----------



## Macfury

The trestle sounds good. And no massive piles of zombies to deal with!

The one thing these folks never do--that I would do--is knock down the first set of stairs in whatever house I happen to be stuck. 

For longevity, even canned food has a shelf life. You'd need plenty of the dried stuff. Have to think about it!


----------



## CubaMark

BReligion said:


> ...somewhere like costco, "yeah this would do in a pinch for the Zombie Apocalypse". Lots of food, roof space for water and crops, things to make weapons, fire. Can secure it pretty well.


I disagree with you on the crops idea - the roofs of most COSTCOs and other big-box stores that I've seen are just metal or plastic laminate. Can't hold any weight....



I caught up with Zombie Nation this morning. Meh. Lots of action, but missing something. But then, I must remind myself, this is a show that's not meant to be taken at all seriously... it's just that the drama overwhelmed the humour to the point where I began to take it seriously.

Now, on to tonight's FTWD... hopefully a miracle happened and one of the writers found a muse.....


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> ... it's just that the drama overwhelmed the humour to the point where I began to take it seriously.


Yep. That's the problem. Heard that the two-hour story was designed to draw in viewers who were not familiar--and then hit them over the head with the regularly scheduled mayhem and gags next week.


----------



## CubaMark

Meanwhile....





+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


----------



## BReligion

Last week on talking dead, Reggie watts gave an awesome answer to a similar question (except what country would you want to be stuck in).

He said Iceland. Relatively small population, lots of geo thermal activity to acquire a power source, and if you could find a really nice fortified position you could guide Walkers into lava flows.

BReligion


----------



## CubaMark

*FTWD, 18 September 2016 edition.*

_Like watching paint dry._​
One exception: If they killed everyone else off, and the series was about watching Ophelia survive alone in the zombie apocalypse, that might be the reset that could keep this thing alive.

Otherwise?

I may die, and not reincarnate, from boredom.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> *FTWD, 18 September 2016 edition.*
> 
> _Like watching paint dry._​


Agreed. 

That anyone would listen to a little sh*t like Nick for more than two seconds defies all credulity. 

Tired of seeing people cover themselves with guts. Had some real impact in season one of WD, but it's become the equivalent of putting on one's pants. Amazing that they could turn a fascinating character like Strand into a nonentity.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Meanwhile....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +
> YouTube Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.






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----------



## Macfury

_Z-Nation _was back in form. Thoroughly enjoyed tonight's episode. Murphy was solid and the cannibal zombie sequence was outstanding.


----------



## CubaMark

Yep, nicely done. Murphy is now both the promise and the threat to humanity. New direction for season 3. Got a kick out of Citizen Z's new fanbase....


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Yep, nicely done. Murphy is now both the promise and the threat to humanity. New direction for season 3. Got a kick out of Citizen Z's new fanbase....


Having Escorpion join the team is working out well. I also found myself feeling little wistful about 10K becoming a semi-slave. I realized I had actually invested a little emotional capital in some of the regular characters.


----------



## CubaMark

*S02E13.*

Just when you've finally given up on it ever getting better, and you've resigned yourself to watch the rest of the show out of some morbid curiosity about how mediocre it can be, FTWD goes and scratches through the bottom of the barrel.

I mean - it takes real talent to write characters this badly. Some kind of anti-genius is involved.

It's jumped past the "so bad it (could maybe someday be) good", straight to "complete and total waste of time" territory.

Where's the "tossing my cookies" emoticon?


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> *S02E13.*
> 
> Just when you've finally given up on it ever getting better, and you've resigned yourself to watch the rest of the show out of some morbid curiosity about how mediocre it can be, FTWD goes and scratches through the bottom of the barrel.
> 
> I mean - it takes real talent to write characters this badly. Some kind of anti-genius is involved.
> 
> It's jumped past the "so bad it (could maybe someday be) good", straight to "complete and total waste of time" territory.
> 
> Where's the "tossing my cookies" emoticon?


This is on my list for tonight--will get back to you with my thoughts. I have heard it is legend.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

*&quot;The Walking Dead&quot; Thread (untied and roaming free)*



CubaMark said:


> *S02E13.*
> 
> 
> 
> Just when you've finally given up on it ever getting better, and you've resigned yourself to watch the rest of the show out of some morbid curiosity about how mediocre it can be, FTWD goes and scratches through the bottom of the barrel.
> 
> 
> 
> I mean - it takes real talent to write characters this badly. Some kind of anti-genius is involved.
> 
> 
> 
> It's jumped past the "so bad it (could maybe someday be) good", straight to "complete and total waste of time" territory.
> 
> 
> 
> Where's the "tossing my cookies" emoticon?



I enjoyed it. Not as much as TWD or Better Call Saul or Breaking Bad or Preacher, but I like the fact that Chris is a sociopath in training. I like that Travis tried to teach him right from wrong and failed. I like the fact the kid gang ate the chickens when they should have been eating the eggs. I like the bottle episodes in the second half. Sure, it's no TWD, but so what? It's good enough, it offers a different perspective than the Georgia story, and it leaves me with something to think about. Looking forward to the finale. 


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----------



## FeXL

.

(Sorry. Thought this was the debate thread for Bill's Wife...)


----------



## Macfury

Mentioning_ Better Call Saul_ in the same breath as this turkey is an outrage. CM, you mentioned that the previous episodes were like watching paint dry. This is like watching paint after it's already dried. First, those two parents seem to be among the worst in the world for producing such degenerate offspring. The business between Travis and his kid was so mawkish and painfully written that I was squirming. Travis the doink putting up that memorial cross in a world of a billion corpses... because he cares. I love that ridiculous scene where those goofy survivors can't figure out a way to get into the hotel through a chain link fence, but they just stand aside to let Travis in. I think I even saw a zombie once.


----------



## Macfury

CM, just curious as to whether the Mexican settings in FTWD appear to be an effort to appeal to Mexican viewership. Does anyone there notice or care?


----------



## CubaMark

None of my Mexican friends / colleagues have mentioned watching FTWD.... it's not broadcast on the local TV stations here, though is likely accessible to anyone with a decent cable package. Thinking on it, I doubt it would be of much importance to AMC that they increase their Mexican viewing numbers for the sake of ratings figures... who knows? On the other hand, perhaps seen in a dubbed or subtitled format, the crappy writing may well be "lost in translation"  

It may appeal to some of the viewers who are Mexican-American (11.1% of the US population is of Mexican descent, about 35.8-million out of a total population of 320-million, 63.4% of all the hispanics / latinos in the USA). But given that the number of core hispanic cast members has dwindled, well.. the representation of Mexicans on FTWD is very much whitewashed. I don't see it as being something many Mexicans would point at and tell their friends that this is a must-see show because it has a bunch of English-speaking psuedo-Mexicans onscreen.... :lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> None of my Mexican friends / colleagues have mentioned watching FTWD.... it's not broadcast on the local TV stations here, though is likely accessible to anyone with a decent cable package. Thinking on it, I doubt it would be of much importance to AMC that they increase their Mexican viewing numbers for the sake of ratings figures... who knows? On the other hand, perhaps seen in a dubbed or subtitled format, the crappy writing may well be "lost in translation"
> 
> 
> 
> It may appeal to some of the viewers who are Mexican-American (11.1% of the US population is of Mexican descent, about 35.8-million out of a total population of 320-million, 63.4% of all the hispanics / latinos in the USA). But given that the number of core hispanic cast members has dwindled, well.. the representation of Mexicans on FTWD is very much whitewashed. I don't see it as being something many Mexicans would point at and tell their friends that this is a must-see show because it has a bunch of English-speaking psuedo-Mexicans onscreen.... :lmao:




Good points, Mark. But I think it draws enough viewers to keep people focussed on Sunday nights for the return of The Walking Dead, which is kind of the point if it's existence in the first place.l


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----------



## Macfury

The benefit to producers is to get up-front production money from countries in which the series is being shown--but if the show isn't even seen in Mexico, that throws my theory out the window.

FTWD sure isn't in it to promote Mexican tourism!




CubaMark said:


> None of my Mexican friends / colleagues have mentioned watching FTWD.... it's not broadcast on the local TV stations here, though is likely accessible to anyone with a decent cable package. Thinking on it, I doubt it would be of much importance to AMC that they increase their Mexican viewing numbers for the sake of ratings figures... who knows? On the other hand, perhaps seen in a dubbed or subtitled format, the crappy writing may well be "lost in translation"
> 
> It may appeal to some of the viewers who are Mexican-American (11.1% of the US population is of Mexican descent, about 35.8-million out of a total population of 320-million, 63.4% of all the hispanics / latinos in the USA). But given that the number of core hispanic cast members has dwindled, well.. the representation of Mexicans on FTWD is very much whitewashed. I don't see it as being something many Mexicans would point at and tell their friends that this is a must-see show because it has a bunch of English-speaking psuedo-Mexicans onscreen.... :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

Fewer and fewer. FTWD ratings continue to sink. I don't really understand the economics of TV as clearly as I used to. A program rated 20th used to be fodder for cancellation.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Good points, Mark. But I think it draws enough viewers to keep people focussed on Sunday nights for the return of The Walking Dead, which is kind of the point if it's existence in the first place.l
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The benefit to producers is to get up-front production money from countries in which the series is being shown--but if the show isn't even seen in Mexico, that throws my theory out the window.
> 
> 
> 
> FTWD sure isn't in it to promote Mexican tourism!



I would presume it's not to promote Mexico so much as to give Latino and Spanish-speaking American audiences something to relate to. I kind of enjoy it, just because it's different, and I enjoyed the webisodes too. I prefer the original series, all things being equal, but it's not a zero sum game. They can both succeed in their own way. I really enjoyed Preacher summer too, but there's not too many people I know who watch it yet. 


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## Macfury

_FTWD _continues to stink up the screen. Nick has to be the saddest excuse for character I have seen in a long time--but then Travis reminds me that they can plumb even deeper depths. A do-nothing for months and then killing injured people. Is Chris really dead? Promise? Way to marginalize Strand, the former hope for an interesting, competent character.

_Z-Nation_ in good form with an interesting arc. Nice to see Citizen Z with an interesting story too.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> _FTWD _continues to stink up the screen. Nick has to be the saddest excuse for character I have seen in a long time--but then Travis reminds me that they can plumb even deeper depths. A do-nothing for months and then killing injured people. Is Chris really dead? Promise? Way to marginalize Strand, the former hope for an interesting, competent character.
> 
> 
> 
> _Z-Nation_ in good form with an interesting arc. Nice to see Citizen Z with an interesting story too.



It's unfortunate that you didn't enjoy the second half of the season because I certainly did. I suppose the only thing more annoying than reading negative reviews of a show one likes is reading reviews of Z Nation on a thread devoted to The Walking Dead. 


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## Macfury

You're annoyed by negative reviews? Grow a thicker skin!!


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You're annoyed by negative reviews? Grow a thicker skin!!



Not really, because that's what I've done to expect from you. More Contrarian than Libertarian. I'm just puzzled by why you continue to derail this thread to talk about your own favourite show. Not enough fans to start an on-topic thread? Or what? 


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Not really, because...


If the answer is "not really" why don't you drop it?



Freddie_Biff said:


> I'm just puzzled by why you continue to derail this thread to talk about your own favourite show.


Because it also features characters who are walking and dead--end of puzzle!


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> If the answer is "not really" why don't you drop it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because it also features characters who are walking and dead--end of puzzle!



Uh, no. You asked, I answered. When the title of the show is in quotation marks, you're naming a specific show. At least FTWD is related to TWD. Z-Nation, while interesting, is a completely different program. All you've done is co-opted a thread and it taken it off track. In any event, I do look forward to Season 7 of TWD, though I imagine it's going to be a pretty gristly starting point on Oct 23. 


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## Macfury

I asked and you answered. It doesn't really bother you--great!

Honestly, I'm not trying to harsh your mellow by discussing _Z-Nation_. It just happens that the only three people on EhMac who watch it and discuss it are also here. Besides, I'm often the one who initiates discussion on FTWD. I'm hardly derailing myself!




Freddie_Biff said:


> Uh, no. You asked, I answered. When the title of the show is in quotation marks, you're naming a specific show. At least FTWD is related to TWD. Z-Nation, while interesting, is a completely different program. All you've done is co-opted a thread and it taken it off track. In any event, I do look forward to Season 7 of TWD, though I imagine it's going to be a pretty gristly starting point on Oct 23.


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## CubaMark

Let us hope, unlike the Zombie horde, that FTWD does not rise anew for another season of -not eating our brains- but rotting them.

If I may mix up my Zombie references for a moment: Please, someone, give FTWD Mercy.


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## Freddie_Biff

OK, how about this? What are some of your favourite zombie movies or TV series? Myself, I'm partial to the zombie land, Sean of the dead, and the original walking dead. Pardon the lack of proper punctuation. I'm dictating this as I drive.


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## Macfury

The original _Night of the Living Dead (_1968), the original _Dawn of the Dead_ (1979) and _Zombie_ (1980) a bad but unnerving Italian zombie film would be my favourites. A second string would include _Return of the Living Dead _(1985), _City of the Living Dead_ (1980) and Peter Jackson's _Dead Alive_ (1992). _Walking Dead_ is by far the best zombie series, with _Z-Nation _second.


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## Freddie_Biff

Cool. Do you think there should be any universal laws when it comes to zombies, such as the slow moving zombies of TWD versus the fast moving zombies of 28 Days Later? 


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## Macfury

The hordes in _28 Days Later_ were infected, but alive, so never zombies in my opinion. I tend to agree with critics who say that being a dead is not a superpower, so they should be slow and plodding. I could accept a brief period of speed shortly after revival because they would ignore muscle pain--provided that the death was not traumatic.

I prefer the "destroy the brain" trope for dispatch. I did not like that in _Return of the Living Dead_, each chunk of zombie remained permanently alive. I like Romero's notion that there is no good reason for them to crave only fresh human prey, placing a mystic element into the story. I would prefer that the walkers in _Walking Dead _did not eat animals.

Your take?


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The hordes in _28 Days Later_ were infected, but alive, so never zombies in my opinion. I tend to agree with critics who say that being a dead is not a superpower, so they should be slow and plodding. I could accept a brief period of speed shortly after revival because they would ignore muscle pain--provided that the death was not traumatic.
> 
> 
> 
> I prefer the "destroy the brain" trope for dispatch. I did not like that in _Return of the Living Dead_, each chunk of zombie remained permanently alive. I like Romero's notion that there is no good reason for them to crave only fresh human prey, placing a mystic element into the story. I would prefer that the walkers in _Walking Dead _did not eat animals.
> 
> 
> 
> Your take?



I think the theory that Jenner explained at the CDC is season one of TWD works for me. The only thing is, in the absence of breathing and cellular respiration, it is a stretch of the imagination that any organism could continue to function, let some walk or eat, indefinitely. And there are skeletons around, so they must burn out at some point. 

For fans of TWD, here's the promo "Right Hand Man" for the season opener Oct 23 if you haven't seen it yet. Right after the big kill.
https://youtu.be/_k4gsUmw7lU


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## Macfury

In Romero's _Day of the Dead_, a scientist essentially removes the stomach of a zombie, who continues to eat, proving there is only mental hunger for human flesh, but no need for nourishment. They won't eat beef or any other food.. In that film, the scientist feeds human flesh to "Bub" a zombie who can then be placated and educated between meals.


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> In Romero's _Day of the Dead_, a scientist essentially removes the stomach of a zombie, who continues to eat, proving there is only mental hunger for human flesh, but no need for nourishment. They won't eat beef or any other food.. In that film, the scientist feeds human flesh to "Bub" a zombie who can then be placated and educated between meals.



Well, that's progress. I'm not sure how an organism can continue to find nourishment in the absence of a functioning digestive system. 


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## BReligion

I am sure I have posted this before, but will again... 
The Cordyceps fungus (youtube) that's basically zombify's ant's and other insects for purposes of reproduction is as close to what the Zombies need for flesh could be.

They need to eat and bite not necessarily for nourishment, but that's is methodology of transmission and spread of the disease. Granted a twist in TWD (opposed to other Zombietype shows) is that everyone is already infected. The need to bite and infect really just spreads the sickness that speeds along the process.

Slow Zombies, much much scarier then fast zombies.... 

BReligion


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## Macfury

BReligion said:


> They need to eat and bite not necessarily for nourishment, but that's is methodology of transmission and spread of the disease. Granted a twist in TWD (opposed to other Zombietype shows) is that everyone is already infected. The need to bite and infect really just spreads the sickness that speeds along the process.


Makes more sense in the TWD world where they attack anything, from animals to people. In the Romero world, it's only other people.



BReligion said:


> Slow Zombies, much much scarier then fast zombies....


Man, is this ever true! Was watching a silly old film called The Video Dead and found that just watching these creeps walking slowly through the forest was absolutely effective.


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Makes more sense in the TWD world where they attack anything, from animals to people. In the Romero world, it's only other people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man, is this ever true! Was watching a silly old film called The Video Dead and found that just watching these creeps walking slowly through the forest was absolutely effective.



I read somewhere that they're actually modelled on African slaves slogging through their lives with the chains to weigh them down. It was an interesting theory. I'll post if I find it again. 


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## BReligion

Macfury said:


> Man, is this ever true! Was watching a silly old film called The Video Dead and found that just watching these creeps walking slowly through the forest was absolutely effective.


Yup... Fast Zombies, while scary yes... are so fast they are shock scary. They jump upon you, eat you and your done end of story. Or you get away and 10 seconds later there they are.

Slow Zombies (especially in a pack)... have the underlying fear of no matter how fast you run, no matter how far you go... they coming, even slowly they never stop... and chances are, they have found a few friends along the way.

There was even a great take on SpikeTV's deadliest warrior a number of years ago, Vampires VS Zombies. I will see if I can find a clip when I get home from work.

BReligion


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## Macfury

BReligion said:


> Yup... Fast Zombies, while scary yes... are so fast they are shock scary. They jump upon you, eat you and your done end of story. Or you get away and 10 seconds later there they are.


Not much different from a cougar or a wildcat then. With the slow guys, you just let down your guard for a second and some rotten SOB is chewing on your calf!


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## Freddie_Biff

*&quot;The Walking Dead&quot; Thread (untied and roaming free)*

A review of the first six seasons of Walking Dead tonight in preparation for the premiere of S7 next weekend, along with a sneak preview of a conversation between Rick and Negan. 


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## Macfury

Will skip that rehash. Reminds me of the _Starsky and Hutch_ shows made on a dime where they would reminisce about previous episodes.


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## Freddie_Biff

That reminds me....

https://youtu.be/YyciIrU61lk


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## macintosh doctor

I watched the AMC - coles notes version of it last night - the catch up.. I am just confused, if the world is so messed up; how are the humans not gathering to work together? or is it the fall of the human species by always someone wanting to be an alpha male or female? 
if the world was over, but we had a glimmer of hope by having a community, why ruin it?


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## Freddie_Biff

macintosh doctor said:


> I watched the AMC - coles notes version of it last night - the catch up.. I am just confused, if the world is so messed up; how are the humans not gathering to work together? or is it the fall of the human species by always someone wanting to be an alpha male or female?
> 
> if the world was over, but we had a glimmer of hope by having a community, why ruin it?



I think that aspect of the show is the most compelling and realistic. Take away all our technology and communication systems, and we resort to tribalism. Some pockets of humanity remain, but they don't survive well. It's a bleak dystopian vision, but we see it happen in wartorn countries. Ever read Jerzy Kosinsky's "The Painted Bird"? Something like that.


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## BReligion

macintosh doctor said:


> I watched the AMC - coles notes version of it last night - the catch up.. I am just confused, if the world is so messed up; how are the humans not gathering to work together? or is it the fall of the human species by always someone wanting to be an alpha male or female?
> if the world was over, but we had a glimmer of hope by having a community, why ruin it?


That's always been the underlying theme of the show...
You could easily swap out Zombies for Nuclear Warfare, Catastrophic Environmental event (a la "The Day After Tomorrow") etc.... It's not about the event itself, it's about how people try to survive after the and during the fallout.... and really it's the people who you need to be most worried about.

There as was mentioned there are "packs" of people who have survived doing what they think is best. What happens when two packs come together.. What's right, what's wrong, and with no sense of Law, Order or real consequences for your actions how as a species do we deal with the situation.

BReligion


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## Macfury

I still see this as a weakness of both franchise shows. There should have been a period of mass execution where 99% of the population died in short order. The number of skeletons/walkers never seem to bear this out. A city like Atlanta should have ravaged the suburbs of anything edible, yet the WD series opens with survivors goofing around within sight of the city centre.


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## BReligion

Macfury said:


> I still see this as a weakness of both franchise shows. There should have been a period of mass execution where 99% of the population died in short order. The number of skeletons/walkers never seem to bear this out. A city like Atlanta should have ravaged the suburbs of anything edible, yet the WD series opens with survivors goofing around within sight of the city centre.


Not necessarily.... Given the fact there were a number of camps and herding of people in major cities (as seen in FTWD and eluded to in TWD). 

They have yet to identify (and never will) patient zero, and cause of the outbreak.... BUT don't get me wrong! All Zombie franchises play pretty fast and loose with the determination of which Human simply gets bitten by zombies to become a zombie vs which one that gets torn to pieces and is nothing more then a carpet stain of blood and entrails at the end of the scene. 

BReligion


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## Freddie_Biff

BReligion said:


> Not necessarily.... Given the fact there were a number of camps and herding of people in major cities (as seen in FTWD and eluded to in TWD).
> 
> 
> 
> They have yet to identify (and never will) patient zero, and cause of the outbreak.... BUT don't get me wrong! All Zombie franchises play pretty fast and loose with the determination of which Human simply gets bitten by zombies to become a zombie vs which one that gets torn to pieces and is nothing more then a carpet stain of blood and entrails at the end of the scene.
> 
> 
> 
> BReligion



It's hard to expect absolute realism and believability in a show about reanimated corpses....well, no more so than the Bible, I suppose. As long as Walker behaviour remains relatively consistent, then suspended animation works. It's like if Superman suddenly used his powers for nefarious purposes, like looking through wall rooms and into change rooms, then 'twould be hard to reconcile. He could even run for President....

Incidentally, the rock quarry not far from Atlanta is the same quarry where they filmed Stranger Things this year. 


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## Macfury

BReligion said:


> Not necessarily.... Given the fact there were a number of camps and herding of people in major cities (as seen in FTWD and eluded to in TWD).
> 
> They have yet to identify (and never will) patient zero, and cause of the outbreak.... BUT don't get me wrong! All Zombie franchises play pretty fast and loose with the determination of which Human simply gets bitten by zombies to become a zombie vs which one that gets torn to pieces and is nothing more then a carpet stain of blood and entrails at the end of the scene.
> 
> BReligion


If they all run into Atlanta, then there should be way more walkers. However, the highway overview showed a failed exodus and nobody coming in.

I like Romero's _Dawn of the Dead_ for showing an indeterminate period where the situation is in flux. Besieged cities, SWAT teams raiding apartment buildings, defecting police officers and semi-functioning infrastructure--and TV and radio still broadcasting. There is a really nice scene where the four major characters leave in a helicopter and you see the lights in buildings behind them turning off floor by floor.


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## BReligion

Macfury said:


> I like Romero's _Dawn of the Dead_ for showing an indeterminate period where the situation is in flux. Besieged cities, SWAT teams raiding apartment buildings, defecting police officers and semi-functioning infrastructure--and TV and radio still broadcasting. There is a really nice scene where the four major characters leave in a helicopter and you see the lights in buildings behind them turning off floor by floor.


Another missed note by FTWD, they kind of did some of that in S1. With Chris (or Travis?) on the roof and seeing someone with a flash light in the "Quarantine" zone. Then the military gunfire and no more flashlight. I really wanted to see more of that kind of stuff ah well...

BReligion


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## Macfury

_Z-Nation_: a bit of a weak episode. I like seeing a Doc-focused episode, but some of the insane asylum tropes (Elvis crazy) were really tired. The woman playing the Nurse Ratched character and some of the patients were uncharacteristically weak ham actors. Liked the oxygen tank/wheelchair gag and the Winona Ryder gags.


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## Freddie_Biff

Looking forward to finding out who Negan killed on Sunday, but also not looking forward to it at the same time. I hear it's going to be brutal. My money's on Glenn. Or Abraham. Or both.


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## Macfury

Darryl.


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> Darryl.


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnZm-9TfSaA[/ame]


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Darryl.



I doubt that, based simply on how much money Daryl brings in for the network. In the comics, Glenn meets Lucille, and Abraham would already be dead from an arrow through the eye, which was given to Denise instead for TV. 


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## Macfury

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnZm-9TfSaA


The other Darryl, then!


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## Dr.G.

Macfury said:


> The other Darryl, then!


:lmao::clap::lmao:


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## Macfury

The Walking Dead just took a revolting dive into torture porn. Very regrettable episode.


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## Dr.G.

macfury said:


> the walking dead just took a revolting dive into torture porn. Very regrettable episode.


xx) xx) xx)


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## Freddie_Biff

*&quot;The Walking Dead&quot; Thread (untied and roaming free)*



Macfury said:


> The Walking Dead just took a revolting dive into torture porn. Very regrettable episode.



Disturbing yes, torture porn, no. It's not the first time a character has suffered a horrific death. Think of Noah, or Herschel, or even Sam in Alexandria. But this was two central characters from way back (we met Glenn in the first episode) and their deaths were brutal. But I did not see it as gratuitous. It was necessary for us to see what a danger Negan is. To be honest, the worst part was what didn't happen, where, like Abraham in the bible, Rick is so broken that he is willing to cut his own son's arm off to prevent something even worse from happening to the rest of the group. That Negan is one formidable enemy.


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## Macfury

There's no difference between what was on display last night and an installment of the _Saw_ franchise. Either you embrace this sort of vicious torture porn or you don't.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Disturbing yes, torture porn, no. It's not the first time a character has suffered a horrific death. Think of Noah, or Herschel, or even Sam in Alexandria. But this was two central characters from way back (we met Glenn in the first episode) and their deaths were brutal. But I did not see it as gratuitous. It was necessary for us to see what a danger Negan is. To be honest, the worst part was what didn't happen, where, like Abraham in the bible, Rick is so broken that he is willing to cut his own son's arm off to prevent something even worse from happening to the rest of the group. That Negan is one formidable enemy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BReligion

Great episode, what a way to kick off a season.

BReligion


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## Macfury

Really thought this was substandard fare, punctuated by extreme violence to shore up weak writing. Andrew Lincoln seemed to be channeling Sarah Wayne Callies in his approach to the role--just big-eyed staring and gawping for 90 per cent of the episode. The concluding dialogue with Maggie and company was feeble and mawkish.


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> There's no difference between what was on display last night and an installment of the _Saw_ franchise. Either you embrace this sort of vicious torture porn or you don't.



Nope. I've seen disturbing war footage and it doesn't mean I advocate or embrace war. Your world view seems to be a little too linear sequential.


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## Freddie_Biff

BReligion said:


> Great episode, what a way to kick off a season.
> 
> 
> 
> BReligion



Indeed. It grabbed me and shook me to the core. I think it was wise of the writers not to show these brutal killings on the season ended. Serious decompression needed afterward via the Talking Dead. 


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## CubaMark

Character #1's death was sufficiently gory. Character #2 was... a little much. Having worked in the industry, I tend to step behind the camera, so to speak, and marvel at the special makeup effects, etc., "draw back the curtain" as they say, so perhaps I wasn't quite as shocked as some viewers. Still, it was pretty horrible.

As for the rest of the episode... meh. Andrew Lincoln has never struck me as a particularly good actor in the role of Rick, and this episode didn't change my opinion. And I completely agree on the concluding dialogue... stilted, poorly delivered, badly written. This episode gets a 4/10.


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## Macfury

You embrace the use of the gore. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Nope. I've seen disturbing war footage and it doesn't mean I advocate or embrace war. Your world view seems to be a little too linear sequential.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Macfury

Agreed with the episode rating. My reaction to a dangling eyeball is not so much shock at the scene, but shock that the series chose to dwell on it so lovingly.



CubaMark said:


> Character #1's death was sufficiently gory. Character #2 was... a little much. Having worked in the industry, I tend to step behind the camera, so to speak, and marvel at the special makeup effects, etc., "draw back the curtain" as they say, so perhaps I wasn't quite as shocked as some viewers. Still, it was pretty horrible.
> 
> As for the rest of the episode... meh. Andrew Lincoln has never struck me as a particularly good actor in the role of Rick, and this episode didn't change my opinion. And I completely agree on the concluding dialogue... stilted, poorly delivered, badly written. This episode gets a 4/10.


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> You embrace the use of the gore.




Not at all. But I believe a character's death should be disturbing and memorable. Otherwise, what's the point? It is a horror film after all. 


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Agreed with the episode rating. My reaction to a dangling eyeball is not so much shock at the scene, but shock that the series chose to dwell on it so lovingly.



You are aware that that scene was straight from the source material. Right down to the "dangling eyeball." 


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## Macfury

I read the issue years ago. I would not have translated it to film.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You are aware that that scene was straight from the source material. Right down to the "dangling eyeball."
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I read the issue years ago. I would not have translated it to film.



Do you ever watch the Talking Dead?


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## Macfury

Sometimes.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Do you ever watch the Talking Dead?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Sometimes.




Did you see it yesterday? 


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## Macfury

No, should I?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Did you see it yesterday?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> No, should I?



My family and I did (we've been watching TWD as a family for years). It was very therapeutic to decompress after this episode, which was the most brutal so far. All eleven potential victims plus Negan were on, including Steven Yuen and Michael Cudlitz, as well as Scott Gimple and Glen Kirkman. It was a much needed catharsis, and of course a reminder that it is just fiction, after all. The sensitivity to the audience that is the Walking Dead is one of the big reasons TWD is not torture porn, splatter film or whatever. 


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## Macfury

I don't require catharsis because I didn't find the episode emotionally charged--just manipulative. I left *Talking Dead* on as I worked this evening, but it did not change my mind.


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## BReligion

Okay, now that I have a few more minutes at the office to type... yes it was intense, it was over the top it was a little gratuitous... but everything in the series has been getting "more" as it's evolved. The Zombies have gotten more gruesome (more guts, more blood, more squishy goey things...), Hershel's Head being cut off, Bob's foot being eaten etc... 
In all honesty, not since "The Grove" (which is one of my favorite episodes of the series) have I been as emotionally shocked as I was Sunday. 
Don't get me wrong... I won $200 in a Deadpool here in the Office because I had Abraham ... I figured it would be him, Glenn or Darryl. When the rumour mill was buzzing with Andrew Lincoln's comment "you have to watch it, it's just that shocking" I figured the twist would be two. 
I thought it was filmed beautifully. It wasn't like the Saw Franchise (of which I only watched the first two, because it just got stupid). You saw the initial swings and the after math, but then it was a side shot of JDM or just the sounds and effects of it (blood splatter on Ricks face).
I think the Glen eyeball was heart wrenching to watch.. Not just from a gore or his comment about Maggie point of view, but the fact that this man swinging a bat cared so little about what the damage he inflicted... and smiled the whole time.
Yes Abraham was tough, took it like a champ.. his comedic "Suck my nuts" broke some of the tension.. and it was sad sad but Rick's group did pick the fight, in this world retribution is a way of life.
But to do that to Glen because Darryl stepped out of line? To exercise that amount of brutality and then just walk away leaving them in the dust.... just brutal.

BReligion


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## Freddie_Biff

BReligion said:


> Okay, now that I have a few more minutes at the office to type... yes it was intense, it was over the top it was a little gratuitous... but everything in the series has been getting "more" as it's evolved. The Zombies have gotten more gruesome (more guts, more blood, more squishy goey things...), Hershel's Head being cut off, Bob's foot being eaten etc...
> 
> In all honesty, not since "The Grove" (which is one of my favorite episodes of the series) have I been as emotionally shocked as I was Sunday.
> 
> Don't get me wrong... I won $200 in a Deadpool here in the Office because I had Abraham ... I figured it would be him, Glenn or Darryl. When the rumour mill was buzzing with Andrew Lincoln's comment "you have to watch it, it's just that shocking" I figured the twist would be two.
> 
> I thought it was filmed beautifully. It wasn't like the Saw Franchise (of which I only watched the first two, because it just got stupid). You saw the initial swings and the after math, but then it was a side shot of JDM or just the sounds and effects of it (blood splatter on Ricks face).
> 
> I think the Glen eyeball was heart wrenching to watch.. Not just from a gore or his comment about Maggie point of view, but the fact that this man swinging a bat cared so little about what the damage he inflicted... and smiled the whole time.
> 
> Yes Abraham was tough, took it like a champ.. his comedic "Suck my nuts" broke some of the tension.. and it was sad sad but Rick's group did pick the fight, in this world retribution is a way of life.
> 
> But to do that to Glen because Darryl stepped out of line? To exercise that amount of brutality and then just walk away leaving them in the dust.... just brutal.
> 
> 
> 
> BReligion



Well said. It reminds us that despite the smile with perfect teeth, Negan is a complete psychopath and can never be trusted. And yes, Rick's group did throw the first punch by killing Negan's people in their sleep (the old pre-emptive strike strategy) so we knew there would be consequences. In the Talking Dead 90 minute decompression afterward, Jeffrey Dean Morgan also talked about how he found Negan's actions repulsive as a fan of the show, but as an actor, he plays Negan as though Negan is justified in his actions. and he broke Rick. The order to cut off his son's hand with an axe was possibly even more disturbing, even if it didn't actually happen. It reminded me of Abraham in the bible story. Frightening. This is definitely the most formidable antagonist they have met. 


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## Macfury

That talk of "decompression" kills me!


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## Macfury

BReligion said:


> ...but the fact that this man swinging a bat cared so little about what the damage he inflicted... and smiled the whole time.
> Yes Abraham was tough, took it like a champ.. his comedic "Suck my nuts" broke some of the tension.. and it was sad sad but Rick's group did pick the fight, in this world retribution is a way of life.
> But to do that to Glen because Darryl stepped out of line? To exercise that amount of brutality and then just walk away leaving them in the dust.... just brutal.


So he's a psychopath. Didn't see anything special about him. I agree, however, that Negan believes he's acting justly--and to some extent he is with that crew of clowns. I'm really tired of watching Rick's crew getting spared by happenstance--not through ability. I keep thinking of the previous episode with the Benny Hill-style antics of the mobile home running into dead end after dead end. With Rick's terrible leadership decisions they continue losing people and getting blindsided. Any group that sides with him also gets decimated. If I have any pity, it's for the survivors of the Governor's town who were slaughtered by walkers in the prison. 

That Abraham comeback was some mighty weak material. Strictly 1980s B-move fare.


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## BReligion

Macfury said:


> That Abraham comeback was some mighty weak material. Strictly 1980s B-move fare.


But totally keeping with his character... "there is no damned corner on this damned Earth that has not been dicked hard beyond all damned recognition"

I mean they can't all be golden like "shaved down all over, dolphin smooth".... or "When you were, uh, pouring the Bisquick, were you trying to make pancakes?"

BReligion


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> That talk of "decompression" kills me!



Why ?


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## Freddie_Biff

BReligion said:


> But totally keeping with his character... "there is no damned corner on this damned Earth that has not been dicked hard beyond all damned recognition"
> 
> 
> 
> I mean they can't all be golden like "shaved down all over, dolphin smooth".... or "When you were, uh, pouring the Bisquick, were you trying to make pancakes?"
> 
> 
> 
> BReligion



Mother dick and bitch nuts, I think you're right. 


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## BReligion

Freddie_Biff said:


> Mother dick and bitch nuts, I think you're right.
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Mother Dick!! I knew there was another good one I forgot!! 

BReligion


----------



## Macfury

Because I find it hard to believe that this B-movie fodder drives people to "compression."



Freddie_Biff said:


> Why ?


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> That talk of "decompression" kills me!





Freddie_Biff said:


> Why ?


I have to agree with Macfury .. I watch Talking Dead for the insights and interesting commentary by cast, crew and fans. For example finding out Sunday that Kirkman never liked the way Abraham died in the comics was interesting... and really Nicole Everett-Brown should be Hardwicks co-host for every episode. I find the show the most interesting when she's on there.

At the end of the day, it's television.It's entertaining, but I don't ever see the need to "talk emotionally" about the characters or the fallout of an episode. 
Am I sad that Glen is gone, meh not really one way or another. I liked his character but he was close to being Captain Kirk, and just not wearing that red shirt.... Does it suck and I feel bad that Steven Yen now needs to go find another job, yup.
One of the things I am most gald about in this show/genre is that anyone can go at any time... If everyone always survived every situation, then their is no fear or risk (again, the ol Star Trek red shirts joke). 

I am sure that even at some point they could do away with Rick and slide a new character into that role.. been done before on many shows many times. Especially given that they aren't completely stuck in a formula like say CSI, or NCIS or any of those dramas where you are just outing one character/cast member and putting another in. In this world each character brings a different skill set to the group and just by travelling to a different area it's potentially a whole new world. 


BReligion


----------



## Macfury

That's why I tune in occasionally as well. Just an interest in how and why--and that oddball section where they mark the passing of the walkers. Like you, I have characters I prefer and I would rather see them hang in, but I certainly don't get emotional about their passing. I've heard people say that the show makes them cry. On the other hand I was really happy to see Dale, Andrea and Lori pass on, so the "anyone-can-go" formula helps clear out dead wood as well!



BReligion said:


> I have to agree with Macfury .. I watch Talking Dead for the insights and interesting commentary by cast, crew and fans. For example finding out Sunday that Kirkman never liked the way Abraham died in the comics was interesting... and really Nicole Everett-Brown should be Hardwicks co-host for every episode. I find the show the most interesting when she's on there.
> 
> At the end of the day, it's television.It's entertaining, but I don't ever see the need to "talk emotionally" about the characters or the fallout of an episode.
> Am I sad that Glen is gone, meh not really one way or another. I liked his character but he was close to being Captain Kirk, and just not wearing that red shirt.... Does it suck and I feel bad that Steven Yen now needs to go find another job, yup.
> One of the things I am most gald about in this show/genre is that anyone can go at any time... If everyone always survived every situation, then their is no fear or risk (again, the ol Star Trek red shirts joke).
> 
> I am sure that even at some point they could do away with Rick and slide a new character into that role.. been done before on many shows many times. Especially given that they aren't completely stuck in a formula like say CSI, or NCIS or any of those dramas where you are just outing one character/cast member and putting another in. In this world each character brings a different skill set to the group and just by travelling to a different area it's potentially a whole new world.
> 
> 
> BReligion


----------



## Freddie_Biff

BReligion said:


> I have to agree with Macfury .. I watch Talking Dead for the insights and interesting commentary by cast, crew and fans. For example finding out Sunday that Kirkman never liked the way Abraham died in the comics was interesting... and really Nicole Everett-Brown should be Hardwicks co-host for every episode. I find the show the most interesting when she's on there.
> 
> 
> 
> At the end of the day, it's television.It's entertaining, but I don't ever see the need to "talk emotionally" about the characters or the fallout of an episode.
> 
> Am I sad that Glen is gone, meh not really one way or another. I liked his character but he was close to being Captain Kirk, and just not wearing that red shirt.... Does it suck and I feel bad that Steven Yen now needs to go find another job, yup.
> 
> One of the things I am most gald about in this show/genre is that anyone can go at any time... If everyone always survived every situation, then their is no fear or risk (again, the ol Star Trek red shirts joke).
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure that even at some point they could do away with Rick and slide a new character into that role.. been done before on many shows many times. Especially given that they aren't completely stuck in a formula like say CSI, or NCIS or any of those dramas where you are just outing one character/cast member and putting another in. In this world each character brings a different skill set to the group and just by travelling to a different area it's potentially a whole new world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BReligion



Agreed. Rationally, one can always make sense of the deaths of main characters I. The big picture, and it's not like Glenn's death wasn't foretold, almost verbatim, in the comics. Still, I've been watching this show for the last five or six years with my daughters, and though we all knew it was coming, they and I still took his death and its graphic nature pretty hard. Not everyone reacts the same way. Glad some people can just "roll with it," but then again, I'd have to wonder how invested one is if they don't have an emotional reaction to this last episode. Hence the decompression is very important to us, and I am insulted when someone like Macfury, who should know better, insults that. I mean, give it a break, man. A little sensitivity wouldn't hurt once in a while. 


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## SINC

Freddie_Biff said:


> A little sensitivity wouldn't hurt once in a while.


About fictional an non existent zombies?


BWAHAHAHAHAHA :lmao:


----------



## Freddie_Biff

SINC said:


> About fictional an non existent zombies?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BWAHAHAHAHAHA :lmao:



Don, you can be a real jerk sometimes. I don't know why I bother. I feel angry when you belittle my feelings. 


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## Macfury

This comment is satire, right?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Don, you can be a real jerk sometimes. I don't know why I bother. I feel angry when you belittle my feelings.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BReligion

I get people get emotionally attached to things/characters etc... My wife cried (I mean she is pregnant, so clinically insane at the moment (I digress))... But at the end of the day it's a TV show. They are actors. Do I feel for the character in their world, yes, do I have the ability to separate and know that it's make believe that is Television sure. It's entertainment and a separation from my reality, but always remembering what it intension is. It's not just TV or movies, people feel that way about any entertainment medium. I've known people that cry reading books. I wouldn't say I am not emotionally invested... but given the world they live in I know (in my hopes as twisted as it seems) they could go any episode because of the "dangers" of the world. 

It's kind of funny, we get into this debate a lot in our household.. My wife couldn't watch Sons of Anarchy (and a few shows like it) after about season 3 because of "the violence"... but it's all make believe is my argument. It's all special effects, telling of a fictional story.... yet she loves watching shows like "The First 48", where they show REAL dead bodies, real life situations.
The argument I always have with that stuff is look, there's XXXXXX (Steven Yen, Katie Segal, Ron Pearlman... etc). They are fine. Remember dear that as actors they read the script, they chose the role, they knew what they were getting into and chose to do it. Her creepy murder shows as I call them are real crimes, real dead people who didn't exactly have a say in it.

BReligion


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> This comment is satire, right?



I keep thinking there might be a shred of decency in there somewhere, but you continue to disappoint. I need some distance from you and your caustic point of view. Have a nice day. And yes, those last words were sarcastic. 


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## Macfury

Yep. I feel for the character as well. However, I can't get so emotionally worked up that I require some sort of release. Whether one cries or not isn't a big deal to me--it's not like a guy will be demoted out of the man club (as long as it's silent tears--no sobbing).

Generally, their deaths don't signify death to me. It's just that you don't get to enjoy their story arc any longer and you might miss that. In the case of Andrea and Dale--good riddance!

I know what you mean about real vs. imagined horror as well. I stay away from the real dead people. My wife doesn't appreciate horror of any kind, real or imagined, in TV or movies.



BReligion said:


> I get people get emotionally attached to things/characters etc... My wife cried (I mean she is pregnant, so clinically insane at the moment (I digress))... But at the end of the day it's a TV show. They are actors. Do I feel for the character in their world, yes, do I have the ability to separate and know that it's make believe that is Television sure. It's entertainment and a separation from my reality, but always remembering what it intension is. It's not just TV or movies, people feel that way about any entertainment medium. I've known people that cry reading books. I wouldn't say I am not emotionally invested... but given the world they live in I know (in my hopes as twisted as it seems) they could go any episode because of the "dangers" of the world.
> 
> It's kind of funny, we get into this debate a lot in our household.. My wife couldn't watch Sons of Anarchy (and a few shows like it) after about season 3 because of "the violence"... but it's all make believe is my argument. It's all special effects, telling of a fictional story.... yet she loves watching shows like "The First 48", where they show REAL dead bodies, real life situations.
> The argument I always have with that stuff is look, there's XXXXXX (Steven Yen, Katie Segal, Ron Pearlman... etc). They are fine. Remember dear that as actors they read the script, they chose the role, they knew what they were getting into and chose to do it. Her creepy murder shows as I call them are real crimes, real dead people who didn't exactly have a say in it.
> 
> BReligion


----------



## Macfury

Something else must be bothering you, Biff. My comment shouldn't be enough to send you into voluntary seclusion on its own.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I keep thinking there might be a shred of decency in there somewhere, but you continue to disappoint. I need some distance from you and your caustic point of view. Have a nice day. And yes, those last words were sarcastic.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Something else must be bothering you, Biff. My comment shouldn't be enough to send you into voluntary seclusion on its own.



Not seclusion. There are just a whole lot of more considerate people I can discuss this stuff with that don't belittle the views of others. What makes you think this forum is the only show in town? And in event, your comment here doesn't sound remotely like an apology. 


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## Macfury

I'm not apologizing. And I'll bet you know many more people who are very sensitive. It makes sense to seek them out at times like these.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Not seclusion. There are just a whole lot of more considerate people I can discuss this stuff with that don't belittle the views of others. What makes you think this forum is the only show in town? And in event, your comment here doesn't sound remotely like an apology.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BReligion

So my understanding... having not read the books (past Alexandria)... is they've pretty much leveled out the characters on the show and the books... (Abraham and Glen are both dead as Abraham gets the Denise Arrow and obviously Glen gets "lucilled").

I wonder if now that they've segregated Darryl if he will get his own side story for a while and they will hold true to some of the events of the books (whatever they are, and I don't want spoilers )

BReligion


----------



## Freddie_Biff

BReligion said:


> So my understanding... having not read the books (past Alexandria)... is they've pretty much leveled out the characters on the show and the books... (Abraham and Glen are both dead as Abraham gets the Denise Arrow and obviously Glen gets "lucilled").
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if now that they've segregated Darryl if he will get his own side story for a while and they will hold true to some of the events of the books (whatever they are, and I don't want spoilers )
> 
> 
> 
> BReligion



Except Andrea would still be alive and Carol would be dead, among other differences. Sophia would still be alive too, if the actress playing her hadn't been traumatized from being on the show. 


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## BReligion

Freddie_Biff said:


> Except Andrea would still be alive and Carol would be dead, among other differences. Sophia would still be alive too, if the actress playing her hadn't been traumatized from being on the show.


True but Andrea being dead and Carol being live as well as Sophia being dead and Judith being alive counter balance each other (again, not knowing what roles they play in the books....)

BReligion


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## Macfury

The comics have really weak characterization--and the drawing of facesis pretty crude. I know Andrea is in there somewhere, but she looks like half a dozen other characters.


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## BReligion

Macfury said:


> The comics have really weak characterization--and the drawing of facesis pretty crude. I know Andrea is in there somewhere, but she looks like half a dozen other characters.


Just look under Dale :lmao:

BReligion


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## Macfury

Ha! That would-be romance was one of the low-lights of the first season. 



BReligion said:


> Just look under Dale :lmao:
> 
> BReligion


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## Macfury

Thumbs down on that CGI tiger!


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## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Thumbs down on that CGI tiger!




Not that impressed with the tiger, but I did enjoy Ezekiel, especially moreso when he dropped the bull****ting act talking to Carol. 


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## CubaMark

Two of my favourite characters, a pretty far-out zookeeper, and an idyllic community that might actually be what it seems to be. I can dig it.

Interesting tie-in with Negan's bunch. I wonder if anyone has put together a map of where all this is happening? I'm interested in the geography of TWD.

Next week: Darryl and the inner workings of the Negan organization. Seems like TWD actors will be having quite a bit of free time between these "spotlight" episodes....


----------



## Macfury

He's an interesting character--although at this point the notion that he might have achieved what he has seems better suited to a comic book than television. I thought he confessed his secrets to Carol far too quickly--he's only known her for a few minutes in total. Still, I WANT that story line to work.


----------



## CubaMark

CubaMark said:


> I wonder if anyone has put together a map of where all this is happening? I'm interested in the geography of TWD.


Well... I Googled That For Me (IGTM):

*The Walking Dead Google Map*


----------



## Macfury

_Z-Nation_ had me laughing yesterday with its crazy parody of the US election. The one candidate promised to "...a zombie wall--and guess what? The zombies are going to build it!" I like that the show occasionally digresses into oddball territory like this.


----------



## macintosh doctor

Macfury said:


> _Z-Nation_ had me laughing yesterday with its crazy parody of the US election. The one candidate promised to "...a zombie wall--and guess what? The zombies are going to build it!" I like that the show occasionally digresses into oddball territory like this.


back to real life for a moment LOL


----------



## Freddie_Biff

macintosh doctor said:


> back to real life for a moment LOL



Actually, that IS funny. 


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## Macfury

macintosh doctor said:


> back to real life for a moment LOL


The lIbs would set up food banks...


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## macintosh doctor

Macfury said:


> The lIbs would set up food banks...


sadly it will be manditory and i hate to see how they would choose who is choosen.


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## Freddie_Biff

macintosh doctor said:


> sadly it will be manditory and i hate to see how they would choose who is choosen.



I am the choosen one. Bring me a shrubbery


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## Macfury

Ni?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Ni?




NI!


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## Macfury

Not a bad episode of _Walking Dead_.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Not a bad episode of _Walking Dead_.



Agreed. Dwight is semi-human now. I think he's going to help Daryl make a break for it at some point. 


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## BReligion

Great episode... great insight into the Sanctuary and the internals of Negans camp.
Jeffery Dean Morgan killed it again as Negan, I mean he pretty much steals any scene he's in.

Definitely start to feel for Dwight, understand why they ran originally and the reasons for it (and returning)... but try as hard as he can, he's no Darryl 

What's... your... name...

BReligion


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## CubaMark

(HuffPo)


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## Macfury

Looks more like Lloyd Bridges.


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## BReligion

Sunday's episode was okay... Nothing earth shattering. 
Totally understand it's only been three days since the event, but one would have thought by day two.. maybe early day 3 there would have been a town meeting to discuss the events. I mean some of the people didn't seem to know what was going on, but also showed no resistance... thought that was a little odd.

I was a little surprised Michonne was as bad as she was with the gun... I would have figured she picked up how to shoot, but at the same time, totally respect and love the fact she couldn't. The katana is her weapon, that's all she knows. Love it.

Father Gabriel was awesome.

I think part of the problem was walking dead was over shadowed by how AWESOME! WestWorld was this week... I mean good lord! Episode of the week award definitely without question goes to WestWorld. (won't hijack this thread anymore then that).

BReligion


----------



## Freddie_Biff

BReligion said:


> Sunday's episode was okay... Nothing earth shattering.
> 
> Totally understand it's only been three days since the event, but one would have thought by day two.. maybe early day 3 there would have been a town meeting to discuss the events. I mean some of the people didn't seem to know what was going on, but also showed no resistance... thought that was a little odd.
> 
> 
> 
> I was a little surprised Michonne was as bad as she was with the gun... I would have figured she picked up how to shoot, but at the same time, totally respect and love the fact she couldn't. The katana is her weapon, that's all she knows. Love it.
> 
> 
> 
> Father Gabriel was awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> I think part of the problem was walking dead was over shadowed by how AWESOME! WestWorld was this week... I mean good lord! Episode of the week award definitely without question goes to WestWorld. (won't hijack this thread anymore then that).
> 
> 
> 
> BReligion



I'll have to check out WestWorld some time. I used to shop there until the Apple Store opened at West Edmonton Mall. 

I saw no good reason for this week's episode to be extended to 90 minutes; nothing that significant happened. Father Gabr was "freaky as ****e" cool. I thought perhaps Michonne had lost her confidence with the gun. Stress affects people in many ways.


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## Macfury

Agreed. The episode was OK, but something was missing in the way the events proceeded. Negan was good but overused--you can't maintain that level of tension successfully for more than 30 minutes. Rick's "humbling" and capitulation really hit a false note.


----------



## BReligion

Freddie_Biff said:


> I thought perhaps Michonne had lost her confidence with the gun. Stress affects people in many ways.


I was trying to think back to if she has ever used a gun on anyone in the past. 



Macfury said:


> Rick's "humbling" and capitulation really hit a false note.


True... but at least he may not be "Farmer Rick" forever... we did get a glimpse that he still has fire in his belly when Spencer spouts his mouth off about Glen and Abraham.

BReligion


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## Macfury

BReligion said:


> True... but at least he may not be "Farmer Rick" forever... we did get a glimpse that he still has fire in his belly when Spencer spouts his mouth off about Glen and Abraham.


It was more the acting than the story arc. Andrew Lincoln has been pulling a Lori Holden for the past few episodes.


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## BReligion

.... ouch ....


----------



## Macfury

Yesterday's episode was not very engaging--the series seemed to be spinning its wheels. More repetitive Savior shakedowns (man, those henchmen talk endlessly!!!). Still no real idea about what Alexandria looks like now. I'm not a big fan of a story so sprawling that you have to leave major characters out of the narrative for weeks at a time--I'm more interested in the Kingdom than Hilltop. One good set piece and maybe some interest with Carl for a change.


----------



## BReligion

Yeah it was a solid B rated episode. Nothing to write home about, nothing to complain about.
Jesus was great as usual, Enid and Carl.. annoying as ever. Typical TWD fare.
I agree with the sprawling storyline... it's going to be interesting to see what they try to do now with at least 4 completely split major storylines running simultaneously.

BReligion


----------



## Macfury

The last episode of _Walking Dead_ was substandard, with a weak character not capable of carrying a full show alone. Sand zombies were pathetic and the case of " mistaken identity" at the end of the show was both laughable and physically impossible.

_Z-Nation_: Last week's episode was a passable time killer. I like Doc stories and their were a few good laughs. yesterday's episode was cracking good--finally uniting Citizen Z with other cast members and providing lots of action and thoughtful moments.


----------



## CubaMark

Agreed on TWD last week. Let's see what happens tomorrow.

Z-Nation: the Doc story was saved due to some pretty serious eye candy and not a bad little capsule story. But last night's episode... while it had its high points, there seemed to me to be a kind of personality change with Warren. I couldn't get into her motivation....


----------



## Macfury

Whether it was convincing or not, it looked to me like taking over the Skull gang resulted in a change in personality. Escorpion became a different person when separated from the gang, and Vasquez became as bad as Escorpion stepping into his place. The episode on the sub was the last straw for Murphy, while refusing to kill a child brought Vasquez out of her fugue. There are some pretty dramatic character shifts across the series.

Murphy is a real treasure. I think the series lucked out hiring Keith Allen for that role.



CubaMark said:


> Agreed on TWD last week. Let's see what happens tomorrow.
> 
> Z-Nation: the Doc story was saved due to some pretty serious eye candy and not a bad little capsule story. But last night's episode... while it had its high points, there seemed to me to be a kind of personality change with Warren. I couldn't get into her motivation....


----------



## Freddie_Biff

What I didn't get was how a person fall off a bridge on a river and ends up washed up on the seashore. Agreed on the weak story. The opener and E3 with Daryl and Dwight were strong; the others, not so much. I think there's too many storylines personally. Need more cuts from story to story within an episode as opposed to bottle stories. 


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## Macfury

They were talking about some sort of estuary, but still...

That bridge was supposed to be a closed system, so the odds of a zombie looking exactly like the other guy showing up there were ridiculous.

I agree with you--I want to see these storylines looped together. Just as you get interested in Hilltop or The Kingdom, it disappears for weeks at a time. I still haven't gotten a grip on what happened to Alexandria--what shape are they in?




Freddie_Biff said:


> What I didn't get was how a person fall off a bridge on a river and ends up washed up on the seashore. Agreed on the weak story. The opener and E3 with Daryl and Dwight were strong; the others, not so much. I think there's too many storylines personally. Need more cuts from story to story within an episode as opposed to bottle stories.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Already a much stronger start than last week. Carl kicks ass. 


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## Macfury

The second half of this season is really weak stuff. The episode with the junkyard people was probably among the worst-written episodes I have seen in the series. Episode with Eugene last week was slightly better. Spike zombie just made me laugh--probably one of the stupid setpieces in some time. Reminded me of Kirk fighting the Gorn. 

I have heard that viewership is way down, simply because people don't like Negin--or the actor who plays him. Hard to tell which. I think the guy does a good job, but the character has been terribly overused and he is on full volume whenever he's on screen.


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> The second half of this season is really weak stuff. The episode with the junkyard people was probably among the worst-written episodes I have seen in the series....
> Reminded me of Kirk fighting the Gorn.


I think that's what they were going for with the Junkyard Episode. "The Scavengers" very much had the look (both costume and landscape), feel and vibe of an episode of "Star Trek". Even the talk of the Collective reminded me of Borg.

BReligion


----------



## CubaMark

The Junkyard dogs... lead by Pollyanna McIntosh... is dumb in the extreme. One of the best descriptions comes from IGN:


> the Garbage People feel like they all escaped from the same mental hospital.
> 
> An argument can be made that The Kingdom is pretty out there and silly, but their society works. It thrives. They eat well and they have happy, well-adjusted lives. Graded on a sharp curve, sure, but you know what I mean. These new people willingly live in trash. And mostly don't speak. And when they do speak, they act like they're hundreds of years removed from civilization and have now crafted their own quasi-language because the old ways died with their ancestors back in the time when humans acted like foolish gods and arrogantly flew in the sky on the wings of metal birds.
> 
> How did these people decide to be silent, non-emotive junkyard filth in just a few years? What were their initial meetings like when they chose to be creepy and quiet? How do they recruit? And why, for the love of all that's good and holy, would they make Rick fight a walker (that looked more like a Resident Evil monster), Thunderdome/Rancor Pit-style, as a way to prove he can go get them guns?


Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

As for last night's episode, I enjoyed the Rick & Michonne field trip, and the rooftop scene (as it ended). It's interesting to see the change in dynamic, from the first few episodes where a single walker would send folks scattering for their lives, and this episode where a few dozen walkers are seen by these seasoned warriors as merely obstacles, "we got this". Of course, overconfidence is also a mortal sin here 

I hope Sasha and Rosita get to take their shot  One does wonder how the Saviors' organization would respond to losing Negan... would the lieutenants be able to keep things together? Is it all really just fear of one guy? Find out next week on.....


----------



## Macfury

Yup. I was thinking of MasterBlaster in the Thunderdome--"Rick, use your whistle!"

I thought the carnival setpiece was good, but the jack-in-the-box finale with the deer was dumb as a post. Who was fooled? And why a CGI deer? Don't deer deserve to be employed as extras?




CubaMark said:


> The Junkyard dogs... lead by Pollyanna McIntosh... is dumb in the extreme. One of the best descriptions comes from IGN:
> 
> Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.
> 
> As for last night's episode, I enjoyed the Rick & Michonne field trip, and the rooftop scene (as it ended). It's interesting to see the change in dynamic, from the first few episodes where a single walker would send folks scattering for their lives, and this episode where a few dozen walkers are seen by these seasoned warriors as merely obstacles, "we got this". Of course, overconfidence is also a mortal sin here
> 
> I hope Sasha and Rosita get to take their shot  One does wonder how the Saviors' organization would respond to losing Negan... would the lieutenants be able to keep things together? Is it all really just fear of one guy? Find out next week on.....


----------



## Macfury

Unremarkable season finale, with Rick again proving that he can screw up almost any plan and then get saved by happenstance--a stray walker or a surprise tiger. I cheered when that garbage pail kid kicked him off the palisade.


----------



## Macfury

_Fear the Walking Dead_ has been stinking up the screen, though the death of Travis was truly welcome. One or two good moments, but the plots are really weak, as is the effort to turn Madison into a badass.

Watched a Korean zombie film, _Train to Busan_, which was a reasonably fun action piece.


----------



## eMacMan

Another Zombie thread revival.


----------



## Macfury

The original and best!


----------



## CubaMark

FTWD is a total train wreck.

I had hoped that we'd see something interesting with a side-story about Ophelia out on her own, but they had to go and screw that up.

This ranch business reminds me a lot of TWD's season on Hershel's farm.... :yikes:


----------



## Macfury

It is a retread of the farm plot, just as the current mass zombie attack is a retread of the quarry zombies attacking Alexandria in TWD. I was laughing to see how a year into a zombie disaster, people have reverted to bartering in a venue that looks like something out of an Italian apocalypse film from the 1980s. And what is this business with a "secret" reservoir? Take out a road map book folks--they're all marked there. 



CubaMark said:


> FTWD is a total train wreck.
> 
> I had hoped that we'd see something interesting with a side-story about Ophelia out on her own, but they had to go and screw that up.
> 
> This ranch business reminds me a lot of TWD's season on Hershel's farm.... :yikes:


----------



## Macfury

_FTWD_ takes another page out of the _TWD _playbook--you can't just eave a place, your presence has to have wrecked it so badly that there is no stone left on top of another. The idiot family now has both the ranch and the reservoir under its belt.

Was not sure about the first episode of _Z-Nation_, but getting into it again. Likeable characters, interesting setpieces and some good gags.

We've got _TWD_ staring its new season tonight.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Good start to a season 8 of The Walking Dead, episode 100 and all. Characters are instantly more likeable and relatable than FTWD has ever been .


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----------



## Macfury

Not too bad a start. Not quite the ass kicker that Nicotero has been promising, but engaging. A little difficult to sort out the premonition stuff--possible futures or actual outcomes?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Not too bad a start. Not quite the ass kicker that Nicotero has been promising, but engaging. A little difficult to sort out the premonition stuff--possible futures or actual outcomes?



Ima go with possible futures. It weren't no Beaking Bad moment with a machine gun in the trunk.


----------



## Macfury

I _liked_ that machine gun in the trunk!


----------



## CubaMark

I'm really getting tired of red, teary-eyed Rick. Do you think he has finally come to understand that he's a total ****-up?

And seriously. They have snipers who can take out guys hidden in trees, or on rooftops, but Negan and his top lieutenants just get to stand around, waving their dicks, and nobody gets so much as a scratch when Rick does a 10-count fakeout?

TWD is heads and tails better than FTWD, but that ain't saying much. And the time jumps / future dream world / graveside sobbing stuff... ugh. Losing my patience here.

Z-Nation: an intriguing start to the season... remembering how tongue-in-cheek it was at the beginning, it's begun to take itself a bit too seriously. Still, eminently likeable.


----------



## Macfury

The crux of the show is that Rick is supposed to be a great leader. However in both franchise series, the great leaders screw everything up. Any safe zone that comes in contact with them are totally destroyed and all residents wind up dead. He's a TERRIBLE leader. 

I enjoyed watching yesterday's episode because there was a lot of stuff featuring planning and preparations, which I always enjoy seeing--quietly taking out the remote guards, setting up bombs, timing walkers, etc.

But no way that Negan and his henchmen would walk out onto the balcony like that. They should have just executed every last one of them immediately. Why allow these bastards to surrender? And with all spies dead, why was Gregory ready at hand to trot out that feeble demand? Someone like Negan should have known that this ultimatum was a non-starter.

The inspirational speeches from Rick and Maggie were also weak sauce. Just boiler plate nonsense. (I'll give a pass to Ezekiel's Shakespeare). Also, not buying the Rick/Michonne romance. There's zero chemistry there.
_
Z-Nation:_

Just caught up. There's enough amusement there to prevent the series from becoming too serious. Rat puppets, barely killable zombies, zombie balls, colliding bullets, giant abandoned car lots and Murphy's role as the Dr. Smith of the series continue to entertain.

Really enjoyed that presidential election one-off comedy last year where the guy is promising to build a zombie wall: "...and the zees are going to build it!"





CubaMark said:


> I'm really getting tired of red, teary-eyed Rick. Do you think he has finally come to understand that he's a total ****-up?
> 
> And seriously. They have snipers who can take out guys hidden in trees, or on rooftops, but Negan and his top lieutenants just get to stand around, waving their dicks, and nobody gets so much as a scratch when Rick does a 10-count fakeout?
> 
> TWD is heads and tails better than FTWD, but that ain't saying much. And the time jumps / future dream world / graveside sobbing stuff... ugh. Losing my patience here.
> 
> Z-Nation: an intriguing start to the season... remembering how tongue-in-cheek it was at the beginning, it's begun to take itself a bit too seriously. Still, eminently likeable.


----------



## CubaMark

Hmmm. This weekend's episode of Z Nation was the first to leave me cold. I fast-forwarded through the entire episode after enduring the first 15 minutes. Time filler anyone? Or did I miss a particularly vital piece of dialogue?

Here's hoping TWD does better this evening....


----------



## Macfury

The only thing you might have missed was that they asked the bald guy who was behind the facility--Zona? The guy answered: "Are you kidding? This is way bigger than Zona." I liked the sequence with the dog food, but otherwise just one of those time killer episodes designed to stretch the budget.



CubaMark said:


> Hmmm. This weekend's episode of Z Nation was the first to leave me cold. I fast-forwarded through the entire episode after enduring the first 15 minutes. Time filler anyone? Or did I miss a particularly vital piece of dialogue?
> 
> Here's hoping TWD does better this evening....


----------



## Freddie_Biff

TWD has improved considerably this season. All Out War is much more action with some things to stop and thing about. What's up with Gracie, for example? 


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## Macfury

I found the action generic. So much mass shooting without any real sense of where everyone was or what, strategically, was happening. Where's Dolph Lundgren when you need him? 

Christopher Walken calls out: "More CGI tiger!" 

Rick, as usual, screws up.


----------



## CubaMark

I'm Ok with the tiger.

Geographically, TWD could do a bit more to inform its audience. I have no idea where anything is in relation to one another. Maybe we need a Game of Thrones-style opening sequence :lmao:

Rick gets teary-eyed upon realizing he killed the daddy of a baby. Seriously, TWD? Lame. This guy's psyche is so out of whack, he shouldn't be allowed to hold anything sharper than an oak leaf.


----------



## Macfury

A map would really have helped.

No problem with the tiger. Just not crap CGI tigers.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> A map would really have helped.
> 
> 
> 
> No problem with the tiger. Just not crap CGI tigers.




You'd rather they used a real tiger on set??


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> You'd rather they used a real tiger on set??


Real, or good CGI.


----------



## Macfury

Last _Walking Dead_ episode was more of the same--badly directed action and stupid speeches. The "Morales interlude" was a bizarre choice. If you bring a character back after that many years, you would expect some good reason for it. 

Never enjoyed the Rob Zombie vibe, so this episode of _Z-Nation_ had strikes against it from the start. A few amusing bits, but man, Murphy was _col-l-l-d_ in this one.


----------



## Macfury

I liked the tiger as a character. Sorry to see it go so quickly.

The rest of the episode was pretty much rubbish based on excessive use of firearms. The bad guys have a MACHINE GUN??? Odd reveal. The Kingdom's defeat was based on walking into an ambush, not the presence of a machine gun. The business of Rick and Darryl chasing the munitions jeep on car and motorcycle was particularly lame--especially bullet avoidance and jumping into the vehicle while moving. If they'd featured Cesar Romero as the driver in clown white, I'd have believed I was watching an episode of _Batman_.

Toxic waste zombies were OK, though not sure why they didn't just wander off.


----------



## CubaMark

TWD - meh. The awarding of any more screen time to Gregory is officially time wasted. Negan is no longer anything close to the boogeyman we were shown. Darryl/Rick conflict = much too forced.

ZNation: en enjoyable little romp, even if it didn't move the story forward much at all. Love the Canadian twist


----------



## Macfury

Agreed, CM. The ultimately futile slug match between Darryl and Rick was a joke. Gregory is a bore and I saw little reason for the flashback scenario. I was briefly intrigued by the conversation between Negan and the pastor, but not for long. The story lines have become so fractured that we haven't seen Alexandria for ages. I'm really not sure what the state of things are anymore in any of the the three communities. And what about the settlement of women and the junk yard people? They no longer exist?

_ZNation_ was lots of fun. Laughed out loud when Murphy yelled "tabernac" as he crossed the border and nice to see Bob and Doug making an appearance. Altogether an enjoyable sideshow.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Whatever happened to Rick's baby? And Carl? And how long has been Maggie been pregnant now? I thought she was ready to pop BEFORE we even met Negan. 


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## Macfury

They spent more time on the Sanchez baby than Rick's kid. I would still like to see a map of this whole plan... and how many days have elapsed since it started.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Whatever happened to Rick's baby? And Carl? And how long has been Maggie been pregnant now? I thought she was ready to pop BEFORE we even met Negan.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macfury

_Z Nation_ was OK. Glad to see _Citizen Z_ and family back in the plot and the threads involving Zona and Black Rainbow integrated.


----------



## Macfury

Still finding the whole Walking Dead war scenario a complete mess. People wandering around doing various things that seem to have no purpose, while talking about the "plan." I get that Carl is a nice guy, butt why go looking for Sadiq in the middle of a battle? The King going all sucky is a bore. Please King, you have to go back to being all King-like for the eight subjects you have left!

Rick's visit to the Junkyard people and their inexplicable dialect was a low point. What kind of a nutball plan was that?

Liked seeing the quick demise of the music truck, and seeing that pathetic Hilltop mayor thrown in the brig.


----------



## Macfury

Not much of a mid-season finale. Saviors counterattack was unrealistic, given the loss of their home base. Carl can go any time.


----------



## CubaMark

Agreed. I played solitaire on my phone while "watching" this episode. So much forced drama, so little interest anymore. The whole Scavengers subplot (was there even enough there to call it a "sub plot"?) was a waste of screen time. 

About the only way they can save next season is to bring in Tarantino as the Director for every episode. 
(Somewhat related but hella interesting)​


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Agreed. I played solitaire on my phone while "watching" this episode. So much forced drama, so little interest anymore. The whole Scavengers subplot (was there even enough there to call it a "sub plot"?) was a waste of screen time.
> 
> 
> 
> About the only way they can save next season is to bring in Tarantino as the Director for every episode.
> 
> (Somewhat related but hella interesting)​



Glenn gone. Carl gone. Garbage pail kids re-recruited. Shark officially dumped.


----------



## Macfury

The show has been reduced to generating jolts only by killing off major characters. The battle is almost incomprehensible to me at this point. The Saviors have how many hundreds of spare troops, vehicles and munitions after having their HQ overrun and all of their satellite bases destroyed and ravaged? And they just happen to know exactly where each of the attacking armies is located--in advance of them getting there.


----------



## Macfury

Enjoyed_ Z-Nation_ last night. A good combo of story arc, gore effects and gags.


----------



## Macfury

_Day of the Dead: Bloodline_

For any of you who might have given this a shot, don't. George Romero's third zombie film was flawed, but this terrible film makes the 2008 "reimagining" look competent by comparison. They couldn't even bother matching the dialogue track to the lip movements in some scenes. Careless garbage.


----------



## Macfury

SPOILERS:


Mid-season premiere. My goodness, was this episode ever drawn out to beyond its natural length. The lowest rated mid-season debut in the show's history. Some thoughts:
* Carl's lengthy demise became something of a joke as they continued to heap bad dialogue on top of bad dialogue. If you're going to end what will likely be Chandler Riggs' only major acting gig, give the character and actor some dignity. 
* What's with Morgan? Is he a killer or pacifist today? The show justifies both decisions equally, so it no longer matters what he chooses to do. The gut-grab scene bordered on parody. Felt like I was watching somebody play _Mortal Kombat_.
* The Carol/Morgan attack on the theatre was sadly staged. Since when is an unprotected attack on an armed and superior force a great strategy? 
* Hope this is the end of Rick's red-rimmed eyes.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> SPOILERS:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mid-season premiere. My goodness, was this episode ever drawn out to beyond its natural length. The lowest rated mid-season debut in the show's history. Some thoughts:
> 
> * Carl's lengthy demise became something of a joke as they continued to heap bad dialogue on top of bad dialogue. If you're going to end what will likely be Chandler Riggs' only major acting gig, give the character and actor some dignity.
> 
> * What's with Morgan? Is he a killer or pacifist today? The show justifies both decisions equally, so it no longer matters what he chooses to do. The gut-grab scene bordered on parody. Felt like I was watching somebody play _Mortal Kombat_.
> 
> * The Carol/Morgan attack on the theatre was sadly staged. Since when is an unprotected attack on an armed and superior force a great strategy?
> 
> * Hope this is the end of Rick's red-rimmed eyes.




I got no quarrel with your observations. I kept thinking Rick's short hair didn't go well with his old man beard. It was nice to see Negan picking tomatoes though.


----------



## Macfury

I agree with you here. Even though it was Carl's weird vision, it was an interesting image.



Freddie_Biff said:


> It was nice to see Negan picking tomatoes though.


----------



## CubaMark

Agreed on all points again, MF.

How frikkin' long does it take COOOOORRRRAAAAALLLLLL to die, anyway? Simply ridiculous writing, editing, acting. I agree with a review I saw shortly after it aired... Carl's death approached a parody of itself. It dragged on... and on.... and on.....

I'm rather sad to watch what they've done with Morgan. Lennie James is one helluva actor, and deserved more character development (or consistency). We know he lost his **** ("Clear"). Then he got it back ("He's Not Here" with the excellent guest appearance by John Carroll Lynch). Managed to reunite with Rick & the other survivors as a man who found peace in a world of insanity. The transition back to disturbed killer wasn't handled well.

As for Negan in the garden.... Nuh-uh. No way in hell could there be a narrative that leads to a peaceful coexistence with that dude. Too much blood on his hands. So now we see the vision of whitebeard Rick for what it is: the delirious mind of a dying Carl.

I wonder where they go from here... Hilltop still has a passel of prisoners that Maggie is still thinking of ending en masse; Negan and his forces are still out there, regrouping and reconsolidating while Rick et al hide in the sewers. The Kingdom is in tatters.

And the teaser we have for the next episode (?) - Rick with a stomach wound, crying (sigh. always crying), laid up against a tree on a hilltop.

Man, I remember when TWD was actually interesting, adventurous and even frightening.....


----------



## BReligion

I just hope now when every major character dies we don't see a montage of what their view of "could have been/utopia". We saw it with Glenn/Abraham, now Carl.. K that's done. Please no more.

I think it was overall an okay episode.. it was what it was. I fully expected it to be as drawn out as it was, so that didn't bother me.
I did really like the fact that Carl was the one to do the deed himself. Rick doesn't need that on him as well. Darryl taking Judith, nice touch.

I have no problem with Carl's want for their to be a peaceful resolution/dream of the saviors... It did give context to the stupid dream sequences we were stuck with for so long...but.. He can't be that naïve to think that Negan would ever go down without being king sh*t of the universe. Maybe he is still ruler in that fantasy, but that's not what his imagery presented. To use the speech about Woodbury and the prison and Rick making peace there.. Yes 100% right Carl. He did go and get all the women and children and refugees from Woodbury, but NO GOVENOR. 
I 100% agree with Rick's original thought of give all of the Saviors a chance.. every lieutenant, general etc a chance.. but at the end of the day those that don't will die.. and Negan, there is no chance for him. With two power leaders, alpha males, Rick and Negan both in their own view of what's right... in the words of the Highlander, "There can be only one!" 

The Morgan disemboweling... well that just had Nicotero all over it. Cool, yes gross and shocking sure... again the show is what it is, and I don't have a problem with Morgan going after an existing wound (finger in the bullethole) and exploiting it (in that kind of a fight, eyeballs, groin, existing injury are all fair game).. but there is no way he penetrating his abdomen to that extent without that guy getting the hell of a reacting/getting off sooner. Again, movie magic at it's finest.

As for the future/comment about our group hiding in the sewers... everyone is going to regroup at Hilltop. That's where the Alexandrians are going.. once carol and the king get back to the cottage they will head to Hilltop I am sure. That's where you will see the next big stand off.

BReligion


----------



## Freddie_Biff

The thing about Hilltop: it's just not that big. Where will everyone regroup? Why is only Gregory living in the big house? And those Saviour prisoners in that pen...where do they go to the bathroom?


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----------



## Macfury

BReligion said:


> To use the speech about Woodbury and the prison and Rick making peace there.. Yes 100% right Carl. He did go and get all the women and children and refugees from Woodbury, but NO GOVENOR.


How many of those good folk from Woodbury are still living under Rick's care? Seems that every last member of every group Rick takes under his wing ends up as walker fodder. I'd rather have Rick angry at me because I'd have better odds of survival.


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> I'd rather have Rick angry at me because I'd have better odds of survival.


:lmao:  :lmao: :yikes: :lmao:


----------



## Macfury

I enjoyed the last episode, because nothing very idiotic was happening. Also happy to see the Garbage Pail Kids finally exposed for the pretentious scum they have been.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I enjoyed the last episode, because nothing very idiotic was happening. Also happy to see the Garbage Pail Kids finally exposed for the pretentious scum they have been.



That heapster sausage was pretty gross tho.


----------



## Macfury

Low quality ground round--I think I saw a bone in it.



Freddie_Biff said:


> That heapster sausage was pretty gross tho.


----------



## Macfury

Last episode of the season was totally preposterous--ridiculous luck transforms Rick's terrible strategy into victory once again. However, it was somewhat enjoyable to watch. 

Season premiere of FTWD was uncharacteristically good--I almost forgot the regular group of rejects who usually populate the program until the last two minutes.


----------



## CubaMark

Agreed on TWD. Terribly writing, atrocious acting, just dumb all around.

Haven't seen FTWD yet - it will be interesting to see how the integration of a TWD cast member goes.... one of my favourite actors.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Last episode of the season was totally preposterous--ridiculous luck transforms Rick's terrible strategy into victory once again. However, it was somewhat enjoyable to watch.
> 
> 
> 
> Season premiere of FTWD was uncharacteristically good--I almost forgot the regular group of rejects who usually populate the program until the last two minutes.



I agree with you. On Fear, Bert—I mean Garrett Dillahunt—was particularly charming.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Agreed on TWD. Terribly writing, atrocious acting, just dumb all around.
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't seen FTWD yet - it will be interesting to see how the integration of a TWD cast member goes.... one of my favourite actors.




I think you'll be pleasantly surprised, Mark. Lennie James fits the new show like a glove.


----------



## CubaMark

Freddie_Biff said:


> Lennie James fits the new show like a glove.


Glad to hear it. James's first few outings as Morgan were spectacular. But the last few episodes of TWD, his character went off the rails in a less-than-believable way. He became almost a caricature. The actor and the character deserve much better material.


----------



## Macfury

Worst line in WD was the one that was supposed to encourage Rick: "Carl died honouring the memory of my deceased mother." I'd have punched the guy's lights out right there.


----------



## Macfury

FTWD proved surprisingly watchable although it did a very bad job of dovetailing the Morgan storyline with its own. Nick continues to be an appalling character.


----------



## Macfury

My wish was granted--sniveling Nick has finally been removed from the series. The appallingly bad acting in this episode was testament to the reason this actor had to leave the series. Surprising to see how Morgan and the two new characters completely outclass the existing characters on the series. It'a painful when they get screen time in comparison.


----------



## CubaMark

I used to want FTWD to kill off everyone except Ophelia and perhaps Alicia, and have them wander through the continent, perhaps with a Tarantino kind of story. Now, I'd be happy if we just focused on Lennie James' Morgan. What a wonderful actor, especially now that he's freed from TWD writers. Glad to see the character continue.

I'm also digging the cowboy, played by the actor who was the Terminator in The Sarah Connor Chronicles (Garret Dillahunt, also more recently in 12 Years a Slave).

You're absolutely right - outclass is the word. 

I'm assuming some major **** went down at the Diamond, which is why our intrepid survivors are wandering the countryside, looking for revenge on the White Flag Brigade....


----------



## Macfury

I heard that Andrew Lincoln may jump ship after next season. Don't blame him.


----------



## Macfury

More deaths of major characters in FTWD--and good riddance. The mid-season finale was a real mess, made worse by the appearance of the regular characters. The screen seems to get bogged down with their presence. Some terrible dialogue that was painful to the ear. Contains possibly one of the most futile and uninteresting gun battles of the series.


----------



## CubaMark

Lincoln is confirmed for six of the 12 episodes next season, but yeah, he's goners.

As for FTWD.... the MSF wasn't up to the par of the first bunch of episodes, but still better than anything that's been happening on TWD side.

Dumb gunfight. 

I'm surprised a chest wound didn't prove fatal, and more rapidly.

Madison - don't tease me. I saw no body, and on TV if you don't see the body, you can never be sure. But oh, I so hope she's (literally) toast.

Morgan's appeal to Alicia fell flat to me - Lennie deserved better writing.

The 'round the campfire story-thon felt very acting schooly. Everyone sit around in a circle and say your lines. 

Anyway - that's a wrap until.... _now this is a surprise_ - Sunday, 12 August 2018. Just two months - fastest turnaround ever.... or maybe I'm still jaded from the Game of Thrones one-season-per-decade model of broadcast...


----------



## Macfury

Madison suffers from Rick disease--constantly making terrible decisions that work out through shear happenstance, or miscalculating and then receiving praise for her wisdom and morality.

The stretched out timeline on he chest wound was ridiculous. It's urgent, but we're good for a couple of hours until we get gauze from the worst location in a 100-mile radius.

It was the Morgan/Alicia dialogue that I was referring to. Miserable stuff.



CubaMark said:


> Lincoln is confirmed for six of the 12 episodes next season, but yeah, he's goners.
> 
> As for FTWD.... the MSF wasn't up to the par of the first bunch of episodes, but still better than anything that's been happening on TWD side.
> 
> Dumb gunfight.
> 
> I'm surprised a chest wound didn't prove fatal, and more rapidly.
> 
> Madison - don't tease me. I saw no body, and on TV if you don't see the body, you can never be sure. But oh, I so hope she's (literally) toast.
> 
> Morgan's appeal to Alicia fell flat to me - Lennie deserved better writing.
> 
> The 'round the campfire story-thon felt very acting schooly. Everyone sit around in a circle and say your lines.
> 
> Anyway - that's a wrap until.... _now this is a surprise_ - Sunday, 12 August 2018. Just two months - fastest turnaround ever.... or maybe I'm still jaded from the Game of Thrones one-season-per-decade model of broadcast...


----------



## BReligion

Meh i liked it well enough.

There were parts that were dumb, as is everything.
I think the new show runners have done an amazing job salvaging what they have from FTWD. I had practically written the show off after the abysmal season 1 and 2. 



CubaMark said:


> Madison - don't tease me. I saw no body, and on TV if you don't see the body, you can never be sure. But oh, I so hope she's (literally) toast.


I believe they confirmed 100% last night on Talking Dead Madison is gone... Apparently they told her before the season even started she was going... and they wanted to honour the character or something and not show her get ripped to threads.. they had already shown Nicks death (which was a surprise to the show runners when he said he wanted out) and didn't want to do too many major characters deaths on screen ... or some crappola. Again one of the dumb things. Forced drama you saw coming from a mile away.
If they didn't want to kill her off, throw the flare? Climb up into the bleachers of the ball stadium and run away? 

If it were me and i had to write her out? Sure.. go back into the stadium lame flare plan and all... Yup go down those tunnels trying to escape... get cut off by walkers.. turn run... cut off again.. trapped, impending doom yada drama yada... have some great speech over the radio... then drop the flare.. stomp on it and fade to black with the sounds of tearing flesh and moans and groans maybe a sentimental this was our new home.. kids names, travis blah blah.. but not the lame statue of liberty play at the fence  but hey that's just me.

BReligion


----------



## Macfury

BReligion said:


> I think the new show runners have done an amazing job salvaging what they have from FTWD. I had practically written the show off after the abysmal season 1 and 2.


This is what I have been saying since the start of the season. A much better series with the new characters..

But a lot of the dead weight has to be carted off and Madison and Nick were part of that boat anchor.


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> This is what I have been saying since the start of the season. A much better series with the new characters..
> 
> But a lot of the dead weight has to be carted off and Madison and Nick were part of that boat anchor.


Madison and Nick were the majority of the weight for me. Until the tail end of last season and this season Alicia would have been the first voted off the island if I had a vote. I have always like Strand, and sadly I could give a rats arse about luciana. I don’t dislike her, but I just sadly could care less about the character.. so her being there doesn’t affect me in any way shape or form.

BReligion


----------



## Macfury

Luciana is a complete bore as well. She was a little bit interesting when she first showed up as an unforgiving badass, but her relationship with Nick turned her into something far less.

I'd be OK with Alicia getting bitten as well. Hope to see Daniel return.



BReligion said:


> Madison and Nick were the majority of the weight for me. Until the tail end of last season and this season Alicia would have been the first voted off the island if I had a vote. I have always like Strand, and sadly I could give a rats arse about luciana. I don’t dislike her, but I just sadly could care less about the character.. so her being there doesn’t affect me in any way shape or form.
> 
> BReligion


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> Luciana is a complete bore as well. She was a little bit interesting when she first showed up as an unforgiving badass, but her relationship with Nick turned her into something far less.
> 
> I'd be OK with Alicia getting bitten as well. Hope to see Daniel return.


LOL 100+ agree... I was going to get into details but didn't on my previous post.
I loved her when she was in Mexico she was awesome, strong confident... in America... not so much. No racist undertone or anything here.. but outside of that compound she just seems lost.

BReligion


----------



## Freddie_Biff

I enjoyed the first half of season 4, more at the start than the end. I think the overuse of the Scott M. Gimple time/flashback/flashforward took away from the logic of the storytelling after a while. If it achieves an important narrative purpose, that's one thing, but it reminded me of the TWD episode where all of the walkers escape from the gorge and attack Alexandria, and they used colour and black and white to differentiate between THEN and NOW. For one episode it can work, but spread over several episodes can become tedious. I liked the bottle episode with John and Naomi—effective suspense and a narrow focus really worked there.


----------



## Macfury

The basic problem--in addition to overuse causing narrative confusion--is that it defuses tension. You already know that one character or another is going to be saved from a tight spot, because they're alive in the future.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I enjoyed the first half of season 4, more at the start than the end. I think the overuse of the Scott M. Gimple time/flashback/flashforward took away from the logic of the storytelling after a while. If it achieves an important narrative purpose, that's one thing, but it reminded me of the TWD episode where all of the walkers escape from the gorge and attack Alexandria, and they used colour and black and white to differentiate between THEN and NOW. For one episode it can work, but spread over several episodes can become tedious. I liked the bottle episode with John and Naomi—effective suspense and a narrow focus really worked there.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> The basic problem--in addition to overuse causing narrative confusion--is that it defuses tension. You already know that one character or another is going to be saved from a tight spot, because they're alive in the future.


Or dead, or missing, as the case may be.


----------



## CubaMark

After not a terribly bad start to the season, FTWD delivered a major turkey of an episode last Sunday (just got around to watching it on DVR). A complete and total waste of time... At times, it seemed to be embracing ZNation's whole concept... and not in a good way....


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> After not a terribly bad start to the season, FTWD delivered a major turkey of an episode last Sunday (just got around to watching it on DVR). A complete and total waste of time... At times, it seemed to be embracing ZNation's whole concept... and not in a good way....


The post mid-season episodes all seem to consist of cast members running away. Watching everybody pointlessly separated again was weak plot fodder. Morgan's introspections are now so redundant that his statements about his motivations are becoming a complete bore. 

The storm episode had some pretty funny stuff in it. The special effects of the walkers blowing away were howlingly bad and some of the banging doors and shutters were clearly being manipulated by humans just off-screen,

I was moderately interested in the setup pf the last episode, but disinterested by the end. And why set up yet another stupid badass character at the end of the episode? These conflicts are getting so repetitive. I'd rather watch the characters building things than fighting yet again.


----------



## CubaMark

FTWD has gone seriously off the rails. The Filthy Woman enemy of this season is simply ridiculous, as is the characters' decisions to shrug off her insanity and continually attempting to rehabilitate her. Just atrocious writing. The actors - most of them very good, especially Lennie James and Garret Delahunt - are sooooo wasted with this material.... 

Season finale? Try Series finale. Ugh.


----------



## Macfury

Yup. Somehow a person who is criminally insane is treated as someone who is simply making misguided decisions. So we'll blow her shoulder to pieces, leave her for dead, and then try to rehabilitate her when she comes back. Just awful stuff.

I don't miss any of the cast members who have left, but the show brings in new characters with promise, then hangs them out to dry. It's all just people spinning their wheels and navel gazing. Is this the sort of fortitude that makes one a survivor? Plots are gossamer thin with characters making ridiculous choices that result in preposterous outcomes.




CubaMark said:


> FTWD has gone seriously off the rails. The Filthy Woman enemy of this season is simply ridiculous, as is the characters' decisions to shrug off her insanity and continually attempting to rehabilitate her. Just atrocious writing. The actors - most of them very good, especially Lennie James and Garret Delahunt - are sooooo wasted with this material....
> 
> Season finale? Try Series finale. Ugh.


----------



## Macfury

OK, I sat down to watch the season finale. 

Every car they find has a live battery. They knew the filthy woman was poisoning the supplies. Why does a nurse not know that alcoholic beverages are an antidote to antifreeze? All of their plans and decisions are rubbish.

Stick a fork in it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

I tried getting into it earlier this season, and then the need to catch up on PVR’d episodes just started to wane. There are only so many hours in the day, and I really can’t be bothered to find out what I missed. Garrett and Dharma were interesting additions to the cast, and I don’t really miss Madison or Nick either, but this season really didn’t do it for me.


----------



## Macfury

I watch some of this while I work. Could not imagine sitting down to watch an evening of it.


----------



## BReligion

Well in the words of T-Swift (or so I've been told) haters gonna hate... lol

I enjoyed it enough.. There is much much worse out there on Television now a days. Also by comparison to the dumpster fire that was season 1 and 2 the new showrunners have done an amazing job of resuscitating life into a show I had all but written off.

Yes the Martha character was kind of dumb, but I saw what they were going for. A character to somewhat mirror Morgan before Eastman brought him back. 

The flip flop of the characters pathways, the storm/speration, again yeah I get it and can forgive.. you need to form the band, break up the band, and get the reunion tour firing on all cylinders in a short number of episodes (without it feeling like you are droning on).. again get it.

I am looking forward to what they do next season, like I said the show runners worked hard to save it.. they have.. now that they can start with a clean slate lets see where they go from here.

BReligion


----------



## Macfury

I thought the show runners had saved it at the beginning of the season--and now they've squandered it. All that running around, separating and improbably finding each other. I think it needs to be run in fast motion with _Yakkety Sax_ from the Benny Hill show playing in the background.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> I thought the show runners had saved it at the beginning of the season--and now they've squandered it. All that running around, separating and improbably finding each other. I think it needs to be run in fast motion with _Yakkety Sax_ from the Benny Hill show playing in the background.




Somebody already uses that music for the other show when Rick and Darryl found Jesus. 

 https://youtu.be/AYVa6tqfF6Y


----------



## Macfury

Well scored!



Freddie_Biff said:


> Somebody already uses that music for the other show when Rick and Darryl found Jesus.
> 
> https://youtu.be/AYVa6tqfF6Y


----------



## Macfury

*TWD premiere--SPOILERS. *


Split decision. I was enjoying the stuff set in Washington and some of the drama around planning. However, the glass floor routine was so damned predictable that it wasn't even suspenseful. A lot of these set pieces are very clumsy. The attack on the wagon was no exception--ridiculous walker attack and needless death. The bereaved parents were written as a terrible caricature. Ridiculous to see Gregory in a position of trust once again. But happy to see him executed. Good riddance.

Still watchable overall and the internal conflicts are more interesting than another badass showing up.


----------



## CubaMark

Agreed. The museum outing was interesting in concept, but I'm so tired of the really, really dumb peril folks suddenly find themselves in. The glass floor bit just bludgeoned the viewer over the head with its obviousness. And the slow-moving walkers who suddenly appear at one's side for that deadly bite of "new guy of the week gets eaten". Ugh. 

The Maggie / Rick conflict works... and so pleased to see Gregory stretching rope....

Daryl's musings about how things were so much better in the beginning, when they were just a small group, and they "could do anything" reflected the perspective of an awful lot of fans, myself included. Season 2 was the interminable camp-out at the farm, if you remember.

And for those who stuck around for the credits: The episode was dedicated to Scott Wilson, a very fine actor who died at age 76 of leukaemia the day before this episode airs, and who played Maggie's dad Herschel in Season 2.


----------



## Macfury

I remember thinking "this farm is not secure"!

The slow moving walker deaths for newbies are like the _Star Trek_ deaths with the new guy from security beaming down to the planet. The carriage attack didn't seem insurmountable and I think the kid was probably right to try to free the horse--but in a world of scarcity, it should have been their first thought, not their last.

Still ridiculous to see people attack walkers with short knives. Protect yourselves people!

Scott Wilson was good in his role.


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> The slow moving walker deaths for newbies are like the _Star Trek_ deaths with the new guy from security beaming down to the planet....


Hey hey hey now, we lost a lot of good Red Shirts on that voyage, let's not minimize their efforts :lmao:

Overall I liked the episode. Museum was horribly predictable, I understand they were in the state house, and it was there, and it looked like a good gag.. but.. come on, if you wanted to surprise me with the gag, have a huge chunk of the roof fall for NO apparent reason other then decay while they are moving over the floor. Even better, have the floor fall out about 90 seconds after they step off of it while two people are arguing to talking about something.

Thankfully Gregory got his, I was actually really irritated when Maggie didn't finish him right there, thinking he was getting YET another chance.

It will be interesting to see how the rest of the season plays out. For those that didn't watch Talking Dead, they confirmed it has been about 1.5 years since the end of all out war.


***EXTRA FUTURE SPOILERS BELOW****


Also, I read AMC has confirmed at NYC Comic Con that John Bernthal (Shane), Scott Wilson (Hershel), and Sonequa Martin-Greene (Sasha) will all be making returns to the show this season.


BReligion


----------



## Macfury

Will not be shelling out $15 at the movies to see more Walking Dead. Two series is too much as it is.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Will not be shelling out $15 at the movies to see more Walking Dead. Two series is too much as it is.




A rare occasion on which we agree.


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> Will not be shelling out $15 at the movies to see more Walking Dead. Two series is too much as it is.


The "movies" will be aired on AMC as AMC Studios original content, no major motion picture studios... I am sure setting up for one day to be exclusive to their streaming platform (which they are already starting with some exclusive clips, no commercials etc). 

I am actually somewhat excited for this (not the streaming part)... As Gimple said (to paraphrase) on Talking Dead this and other AMC studios stuff is going to allow them to do more one off stories. go different places and glimpses into past present and perhaps future of the walking dead universe and characters without the constraints of the series. 

I think that's awesome, no need to worry about how to weave some crazy complicated introduction or blend the stories, no long winded bloated stories. I really really liked a few of the Websiodes from Season 1/2? (I think).. .the story of Hannah the Bicycle Girl was interesting... The commercial clips of Flight whatever it was and was okay, and Red Machete just sucked.

BReligion


----------



## CubaMark

Rich Grimes' last episode (on the series) didn't move me much at all. Rick's superhuman ability to un-impale himself, survive massive bloodloss, and defy the laws of physics when faced with exploding dynamite (somehow boomeranging back into the river) were just too much. I did like some of the delusions... always nice to see Scott Wilson (Herschel). As another reviewer noted, while Shane's appearance was essential, it was odd to see Sasha and not Lori / Carl / Glen / etc. Sasha wasn't that close to Rick. But hey, the inner workings of the feverish mind, who can tell what's likely to happen? 

The AMC movie announcement will be interesting... as BReligion noted, it's for the set-top-box, not the cinema. But thinking about what possible storylines they may follow brings up a challenge: Rick would move hell and high water to get back to Alexandria, so if he's really done on TWD, then the movies are either prequels or... well.. hard to think of the context in which he would be convinced / prevented from trying to go home.

And this was a pretty sad send-off for Maggie. Sort of a sharp cut to black with her character. 

Sunday should be interesting... the aftermath of Rick's "death", the bridge going out, the herd being (completely?) swept away, etc.

ON a side note, I read that Melissa McBride landed a new $20-million deal with AMC to continue playing Carol, and Darryl's Norman Reedus' deal is worth $50-million.


----------



## Macfury

BReligion said:


> The "movies" will be aired on AMC as AMC Studios original content, no major motion picture studios... I am sure setting up for one day to be exclusive to their streaming platform (which they are already starting with some exclusive clips, no commercials etc).
> 
> I am actually somewhat excited for this (not the streaming part)... As Gimple said (to paraphrase) on Talking Dead this and other AMC studios stuff is going to allow them to do more one off stories. go different places and glimpses into past present and perhaps future of the walking dead universe and characters without the constraints of the series.
> 
> I think that's awesome, no need to worry about how to weave some crazy complicated introduction or blend the stories, no long winded bloated stories.


I realized that the films were AMC specials later. Still, not excited about these stories and not so interested in stories featuring Rick.



CubaMark said:


> As another reviewer noted, while Shane's appearance was essential, it was odd to see Sasha and not Lori / Carl / Glen / etc. Sasha wasn't that close to Rick. But hey, the inner workings of the feverish mind, who can tell what's likely to happen?


So much potential wasted right there.

QUOTE=CubaMark;2671522]Rick would move hell and high water to get back to Alexandria, so if he's really done on TWD, then the movies are either prequels or... well.. hard to think of the context in which he would be convinced / prevented from trying to go home.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

Anybody else thinking that Negan's character arc struck a really sour note?


----------



## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> ....Anybody else thinking that Negan's character arc struck a really sour note?


Thanks for reminding me. Absolutely. Throughout the tearful blather about wanting to rejoin his dear departed wife, I was sure he was going to take out Maggie (knowing, after all, that it was Cohen's last episode). Alas... the writers really expect us to believe that Negan went to pieces. _Please_.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Thanks for reminding me. Absolutely. Throughout the tearful blather about wanting to rejoin his dear departed wife, I was sure he was going to take out Maggie (knowing, after all, that it was Cohen's last episode). Alas... the writers really expect us to believe that Negan went to pieces. _Please_.




About that. If it was Cohen’s last episode, that fact was sure overshadowed by the fact that it was Lincoln’s last episode. Doesn’t seem like the proper sendoff for such a long time character.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> About that. If it was Cohen’s last episode, that fact was sure overshadowed by the fact that it was Lincoln’s last episode. Doesn’t seem like the proper sendoff for such a long time character.


She's joined the cast of another show. Apparently, an optional return is still in play.


----------



## Macfury

Yesterday's episode was a meandering Walker of an episode. Once again, the world of the Walking Dead never seems cohesive. Three years have passed and who is left? Hard to say exactly what shape the communities are in. Not buying the Judith character. Michonne's personal problems are a bore. The punishment of the Saviors had some panache at least.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> Yesterday's episode was a meandering Walker of an episode. Once again, the world of the Walking Dead never seems cohesive. Three years have passed and who is left? Hard to say exactly what shape the communities are in. Not buying the Judith character. Michonne's personal problems are a bore. The punishment of the Saviors had some panache at least.




Six years have passed, amigo. The most recent time jump was six years.


----------



## Macfury

They're all looking like no time has passed! Six years? Even less reason for Michonne to be mumbling and moaning about Rick at this point.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Six years have passed, amigo. The most recent time jump was six years.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

Macfury said:


> They're all looking like no time has passed! Six years? Even less reason for Michonne to be mumbling and moaning about Rick at this point.




Check out l’il ass kicker. She is significantly older. And Carol’s lovely hair too.


----------



## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> Check out l’il ass kicker. She is significantly older. And Carol’s lovely hair too.


Carol's hair is longer, but it was always grey. Everyone else hasn't even photo-aged working outdoors in the sun. Negan has been in the dungeon, but he looks just as Maggie left him.


----------



## CubaMark

/Spoilers below/ but at this point in the show, does anyone really care?

A filler / bridge episode. Nothing overly exciting, except perhaps the introduction (again?) of the Whisperers.

Eugene has grown a pair in the past six years... still weird, but no longer incapable of taking care of himself.

Michonne's talking to the walls aside, it appears she has born Rick (?) a son, and received an "ominous" X-shaped scar on her back. No doubt a backstory episode is schedule for the near future.

Carol remains TWD's only real resident badass. Cool.

The Gabriel / Rosita (I actually had to google TWD cast to remember her character name) pairup is odd... seems like even in the small community of Alexandria, they'd have found others more in mesh with their characters.

We should now be at the point where there are no functioning gasoline vehicles... and the Kingdom's deteriorating infrastructure something I hope they continue to develop throughout as an underlying menace.

Guess I'll continue to watch.. out of habit, more than any great interest in the TWD world....


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> The Gabriel / Rosita (I actually had to google TWD cast to remember her character name) pairup is odd... seems like even in the small community of Alexandria, they'd have found others more in mesh with their characters.


Reverend Gabe is a real stallion-two relationships over three episodes (but six years). Not buying it.



CubaMark said:


> We should now be at the point where there are no functioning gasoline vehicles... and the Kingdom's deteriorating infrastructure something I hope they continue to develop throughout as an underlying menace.


We were long ago at the point where there should be no charge in the batteries of found cars. But they all started up like clockwork. Cars are more of a problem in that they can no longer build them, or the parts they require and readily available fuel should be dwindling

The infrastructure problems shouldn't be too great in that they could pillage parts from anywhere. Entire boilers and steam fittings should be easy to find.


----------



## BReligion

Overall it was a good episode save for two somewhat unbelievable situations that they needed to push the story along and one really stupid statement/plan that didn't need to be made....

1) Henry running blindly down an alley getting ambushed... Okay dude is still a "Knight" I get it, save the ladies, chivalry etc.. but all these years in the apocalypse, he really should know better then to get ambushed the way he did... Oh you needed the Saviors to be dicks, steal the ring so Carol would turn Firestarter and tie up that loose end... sure.. I suppose.

2) Eugene, Rosita and the Herd... So you see a herd coming... and you feel the need to scramble down the water tower? Uhm why not just have Rosita come up the tower? They wouldn't hear you up there, wait for the herd to pass and then move along your way. It's not like your behind a fence, the herd isn't going to push the water tower over. Okay.. the horses yes they are not exactly expendable, but they got spooked by a stupid backpack falling... ah come on now.. Oh you needed them to scramble and run (not fast or far enough away mind you) just enough to hear the whisperers and set up that story line. uh sure.

3) When the one newbie basically told the others they needed to fight to stay... Really? That's your plan? Pick a fight with the person who says she doesn't trust you.. and hope you win? How will that win the others over... oh you want to fight the whole town? It's not like this is a house or barn you are trying to take over... it's a whole damn village. 

…also I wish Michonne had named the little boy Shane 

BReligion


----------



## Macfury

My thought on the Whisperers segment. There is no reason on Earth that a Walker would have enhanced ability to detect live humans, either by heat or by scent. Their olfactories are almost completely gone! Hiding in the cold muck would not be a winning strategy. On the other hand, since the Whisperers are human, hiding in cold muck would be a lousy way to escape their notice. 

I'm sorry to see the Whisperers show up so early. The show doesn't seem to have any faith in its own drama to allow some development of story arc or character. It continues to inject a brand new enemy to ramp up the drama during anything resembling a pause.


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> ...There is no reason on Earth that a Walker would have enhanced ability to detect live humans, either by heat or by scent. Their olfactories are almost completely gone! Hiding in the cold muck would not be a winning strategy. On the other hand, since the Whisperers are human, hiding in cold muck would be a lousy way to escape their notice....


There has to be something to it or why would they have needed the "meat sweaters" gag several times in the run of the show to walk amongst the walkers.

I really saw it as blending into the hillside... I guess the scent covering too. I never saw it as a body heat thing... However... a Predator Walker.. that would be sweeet 

BReligion


----------



## Macfury

FTWD used the walker gut gambit so many times, it started to look like a fashion show!



BReligion said:


> There has to be something to it or why would they have needed the "meat sweaters" gag several times in the run of the show to walk amongst the walkers.
> 
> I really saw it as blending into the hillside... I guess the scent covering too. I never saw it as a body heat thing... However... a Predator Walker.. that would be sweeet
> 
> BReligion


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> FTWD used the walker gut gambit so many times, it started to look like a fashion show!


I know! And funny enough, when FTWD hit season 2 or mid season 2 one of the EP's said they had a great opportunity to tackle some of the things that people used to sluff off as a response to a Zompocalypse and see how that worked out. (all be it the show didn't do it well, but they tried)
"I would just live on a boat...." or 
"I would just live in the desert" or
"I would just live in a hotel I secured..." or.... 

I know they killed of Nick and the show took a big right turn to save itself, but I think they could have explored the long term effects of wearing the walker blood. 
I know that we are supposed to see (wakka wakka) that with Gabriel's eye now, but they really could have done a bit on it in FTWD early on. 

Thankfully no one has tackled MY living situation post apocalypse so my secret is safe from interlopers :lmao:

Going to watch last nights tonight as it was the boys birthday party yesterday and didn't get a chance last night.

BReligion


----------



## Macfury

SPOILERS: 

Yesterday's episode just sort of rolled past me. Don't like the four new characters. "Music Guy" is sort of a Eugene clone. Not interested in what Michonne thinks of Maggie. Don't really get how the Hilltop/Alexandria feud reached that point seeing as they were trading with each other before. Still way too many characters to track in any dramatically significant way.

"Here comes a herd!" Yawnnnnn. Again?

And looks like Rick's record is intact after rescuing the Saviors from Negan--they're pretty much all dead and their settlement has collapsed.


----------



## BReligion

Not sure if anyone still watched it, but Z Nation was cancelled after 5 seasons a few weeks ago.

https://tvline.com/2018/12/22/z-nation-cancelled-season-6-syfy/

Finished it last night... Loved the show up until this past season. I didn't hate it but S5 sure took a serious note/turn and I felt like they lost a lot of the light hearted humour that I thought really set it apart from TWD. Some of the new characters were really just dumb. Don't get me wrong, there were some golden Murphy and Doc moments (my fav two Characters) but overall still watchable. Really sucks to see the show cancelled.

I think this was the last of the Syfy series I was watching. The other was Dark Matter, which they cancelled in Sept of 2017.

BReligion


----------



## Macfury

I was disappointed in the cancellation, but the last season didn't grab me. It seemed like they cheaped out big time, using a single university and an industrial facility for most of the sets. Also, the "talker" plot device wasn't something that grabbed me--or the fascist/freedom lover conflict. I think the cast was trying hard, but the writers seemed to be phoning it in.

Reusing the peyote gag at the water plant simply reminded me that the series had lost its edge--reminded me of how funny it was the first time they used it.

I will say, I'm curious as to what Murphy tasted in the doctor's brain--it seemed to give him a rather nasty idea. Sorry to see such anunusually sweet-natured zombie series peter out like this.

The more serious spin-off "Black Summer" is set to debut shortly, and I suspect SyFy simply chose to divert its resources to a show with stronger audience potential.





BReligion said:


> Not sure if anyone still watched it, but Z Nation was cancelled after 5 seasons a few weeks ago.
> 
> https://tvline.com/2018/12/22/z-nation-cancelled-season-6-syfy/
> 
> Finished it last night... Loved the show up until this past season. I didn't hate it but S5 sure took a serious note/turn and I felt like they lost a lot of the light hearted humour that I thought really set it apart from TWD. Some of the new characters were really just dumb. Don't get me wrong, there were some golden Murphy and Doc moments (my fav two Characters) but overall still watchable. Really sucks to see the show cancelled.
> 
> I think this was the last of the Syfy series I was watching. The other was Dark Matter, which they cancelled in Sept of 2017.
> 
> BReligion


----------



## CubaMark

We are of like minds. ZNation this season (and honestly part of the previous) lost me. I found myself browsing the web while watching, and just not getting into it.

When does TWD come back? February?


----------



## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> We are of like minds. ZNation this season (and honestly part of the previous) lost me. I found myself browsing the web while watching, and just not getting into it.
> 
> 
> 
> When does TWD come back? February?




I believe so.


----------



## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> When does TWD come back? February?


I am now disinterested enough that I find myself simply forgetting about the episodes. The writers have failed to found any driver for the series following Rick's departure and the various "mini-threads" have not been woven into a rich and compelling tapestry.


----------



## Macfury

Ouch! That was another groaner of an episode. Glad to hear that Michonne is leaving the show, as her moping character has become an unwelcome presence. Complete mishandling of the "Whisperers" with their secret revealed far too quickly. Their only "power" seems to be herding some badly dilapidated walkers from place to place. Best part of the episode was Negan traveling to his old HQ and back again.


----------



## CubaMark

For half a minute there, I thought they were going to have (character) amazingly pull through after his wounding. 

And is it a running joke or something... first Carl was a ridiculously unattended child, and now JG just roams the woods loaded for bear, dispensing wisdom like a little Yoda?

Overall i didn't dislike the episode, but man... the story in TWD stumbles along at the speed of a no-legged walker....


----------



## Macfury

Too many characters... not enough business.


----------



## Freddie_Biff

I can’t say I was impressed. The Whisperers lacked any mystery or menace, with one being taken hostage so soon. I agree that, oddly enough, the Negan parts of the story ended up being the most intriguing. But would he really want to come back to his cell?


----------



## Macfury

I was wondering the same thing about Negan. There's Hilltop and the Kingdom and the fishing village within a relatively small area. I wondered why he gave up so easily on such a small sampling of teritory before agreeing to go back to jail.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I can’t say I was impressed. The Whisperers lacked any mystery or menace, with one being taken hostage so soon. I agree that, oddly enough, the Negan parts of the story ended up being the most intriguing. But would he really want to come back to his cell?


----------



## BReligion

Macfury said:


> I was wondering the same thing about Negan. There's Hilltop and the Kingdom and the fishing village within a relatively small area. I wondered why he gave up so easily on such a small sampling of teritory before agreeing to go back to jail.


I haven't read them, but I believe I heard in the books he locks himself back into the cell to try to show trust with Rick (who is still around in the books). He doesn't leave Alexandria at all at that point in the story.

BReligion


----------



## Macfury

Yeah he does. And he's having little talks with Carl, not his younger sister. In the comics, he's also pivotal in the Whisperers' storyline--and may be here as well.



BReligion said:


> I haven't read them, but I believe I heard in the books he locks himself back into the cell to try to show trust with Rick (who is still around in the books). He doesn't leave Alexandria at all at that point in the story.
> 
> BReligion


----------



## Macfury

I never finished up the last two or three episodes of The Walking Dead as I kept falling asleep. The comic series finished in July with an anti-climactic death for Rick. Carl's still alive. 

FTWD is renewed for the fall.

I watched some episodes of Black Summer, but found it flat. Weak characterizations, generally unoriginal situations and that oddball cheapness that expects the audience to accept mass extinction alongside relatively tidy neighbourhoods. Also tired of the colour-drained blue-grey video pallet. The series has the distinction of being filmed in Calgary, which doesn't quite pass as the USA.


----------



## wonderings

Macfury said:


> I never finished up the last two or three episodes of The Walking Dead as I kept falling asleep. The comic series finished in July with an anti-climactic death for Rick. Carl's still alive.
> 
> FTWD is renewed for the fall.
> 
> I watched some episodes of Black Summer, but found it flat. Weak characterizations, generally unoriginal situations and that oddball cheapness that expects the audience to accept mass extinction alongside relatively tidy neighbourhoods. Also tired of the colour-drained blue-grey video pallet. The series has the distinction of being filmed in Calgary, which doesn't quite pass as the USA.


I tried watching Black Summer, made it through most of the series but it was awful and the characters incredibly frustrating. If the zombie apocalypse is happening there is no way I am walking around without a weapon of some sort, be it a gun, baseball bat, club, chair, anything. Mix that with characters constantly leaving doors open behind them. The one that really stands out was that guy who ended up Fire Station. Probably a pretty secure place, but he goes in leaving the door open behind him after and sure enough a zombie follows behind. He gets away in the station, gets an axe, has the zombies head lined up and still fails. 

I also have trouble believing things like nightclubs or bars would be operating. They had that secret under ground club going on. I just do not buy it. I thought the show looked good and could have had an interesting story but it all just fell flat. I do think I liked it a bit more then Z-Nation though.


----------



## Macfury

wonderings said:


> I tried watching Black Summer, made it through most of the series but it was awful and the characters incredibly frustrating. If the zombie apocalypse is happening there is no way I am walking around without a weapon of some sort, be it a gun, baseball bat, club, chair, anything. Mix that with characters constantly leaving doors open behind them. The one that really stands out was that guy who ended up Fire Station. Probably a pretty secure place, but he goes in leaving the door open behind him after and sure enough a zombie follows behind. He gets away in the station, gets an axe, has the zombies head lined up and still fails.
> 
> I also have trouble believing things like nightclubs or bars would be operating. They had that secret under ground club going on. I just do not buy it. I thought the show looked good and could have had an interesting story but it all just fell flat. I do think I liked it a bit more then Z-Nation though.


I enjoyed Z-Nation, but other than the basic premise, these series could not be any farther apart.

The world-building is incredibly spotty here, as you say. The zombie apocalypse is too clean by half and nobody seems to have much trouble finding what they need.


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## CubaMark

I'm up to Episode 7 of FTWD. And still, the writers make terrible, stupid, illogical, banal decisions in character and plot.

Sigh.


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## Macfury

Not sure if these are writing errors or what passes for tension building among amateur writers. When Dr. Smith of Lost in Space did stuff like this, and the Robinsons forgave him, you knew it was part of a wink and a nudge at the audience.



CubaMark said:


> I'm up to Episode 7 of FTWD. And still, the writers make terrible, stupid, illogical, banal decisions in character and plot.
> 
> Sigh.


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## BReligion

FTWD was really good this (half) season.. Yes some stupid choices made with writing, but overall I really enjoyed it.

BReligion


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## wonderings

Macfury said:


> I enjoyed Z-Nation, but other than the basic premise, these series could not be any farther apart.
> 
> The world-building is incredibly spotty here, as you say. The zombie apocalypse is too clean by half and nobody seems to have much trouble finding what they need.


I will admit watching Z-Nation and yet hated it. Like a train wreck I could not look away. I was simply comparing it because they are both zombie shows and both in my opinion garbage. Z-Nation tries to be funny and humorous and in most cases I think it fairs... and yet I still watched.

I understand the world is fiction, but inside the realm they create I do like and expect realism, not shows fail miserably at that.


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## Macfury

wonderings said:


> I will admit watching Z-Nation and yet hated it. Like a train wreck I could not look away. I was simply comparing it because they are both zombie shows and both in my opinion garbage. Z-Nation tries to be funny and humorous and in most cases I think it fairs... and yet I still watched.
> 
> I understand the world is fiction, but inside the realm they create I do like and expect realism, not shows fail miserably at that.


Once I saw the Liberty Bell gag on z-Nation, they won me over. The last season lost me entirely. The reason I pointed out the different approaches is that Black Summer actually identifies itself as "Based on Z-Nation."


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## Freddie_Biff

I used to be a big fan of the Walking Dead, but I think they jumped the shark about the time they killed off Glenn. There was something about the two horrific and graphic deaths in one episode that was just...too much. And then following that with life as usual episodes thereafter. My wife and kids were fans up to that point too, and that was about when they stopped watching. On Fear, I like Garret Dillahunt and Jenna Elfman, but it’s also not interesting enough to me to keep watching. Not even Dwight. Kind of like Star Trek: Discovery—there’s just something missing. They all started out with great promise too. There are few series that stay consistently good from start to finish, apart from, say, The Leftovers.


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## Macfury

I watched the last 8 episodes of FTWD over the past week. My goodness, that was weak, preachy stuff. The contrived plot devices, from rockslides to nuclear meltdowns and plane crashes were painful to behold. What's all this nonsense of having to get "over the mountains" by plane? They're in Texas!! And why can't they drive where they need to go? The stuff with the hot air balloon was bottom of the barrel--the worst green screening I've seen in some time. The hot air balloon didn't even have a source of heat or an opening on the bottom to catch the hot air.


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## BReligion

Macfury said:


> I watched the last 8 episodes of FTWD over the past week. My goodness, that was weak, preachy stuff. The contrived plot devices, from rockslides to nuclear meltdowns and plane crashes were painful to behold. What's all this nonsense of having to get "over the mountains" by plane? They're in Texas!! And why can't they drive where they need to go? The stuff with the hot air balloon was bottom of the barrel--the worst green screening I've seen in some time. The hot air balloon didn't even have a source of heat or an opening on the bottom to catch the hot air.


It was pretty ridiculous but still leaps and bounds better then seasons 1 and 2 lol.

I am sure they did make mention either on the show, or on Talking Dead about their half assed rationale as to why they had to fly into the area. I think it was because the roads through the mountains were deteriorating or impassable or something.. of course there was only 1 way in/out. I don't recall for sure... but they definitely didn't address how Dwight got in.. oh oh maybe he secretly hitched a ride (stowaway) on the bottom of the helicopter that took Rick away in TWD and just let and parachuted in somewhere over Texas chasing Sherry.. or quickly escaped it when it landed to drop off the mystery Stormtroopers..yeah that's it lol

The hot air ballon was so stupid I ignored it. As I was watching the episode that they totalled the other planes propellers (which was a cool way to deal with a herd, I must say) I thought they were going to somehow retrofit some massive exhaust fan/blades from the power plant as the propellers for the plane.. which may actually have been more plausible then the balloon :lmao:

BReligion


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## Macfury

The walker death by prop was the highlight of the season!

I also laughed at one line--when Dwight calls the creatures "walkers" and everyone else say "huh?"


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## BReligion

Macfury said:


> The walker death by prop was the highlight of the season!


... don’t forget about Skidmark


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## Macfury

BReligion, I mentioned theatrical releases involving Rick Grimes, to which you replied:



BReligion said:


> The "movies" will be aired on AMC as AMC Studios original content, no major motion picture studios...


I'm hearing now that the first movie will be going to theatres.


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## BReligion

Macfury said:


> I'm hearing now that the first movie will be going to theatres.


Yeah I heard the teaser at Comic Con said in theatres.....Originally my comment was based off what what they (Gimple and Kirkman) had said at the time on Talking Dead when they announced it.... Not shocking that AMC and TWD has changed their minds :lmao:



> https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulta...ch-will-be-a-theatrical-release/#4304cc2be084
> 
> The last rumblings we were hearing about these Rick Grimes spin-off movies, the thought was that there would be three in total and they would probably just end up airing on AMC, serving as big-budget, double/triple episodes every year or so.
> 
> But now, this teaser makes a big point of revealing that The Untitled Walking Dead Rick Grimes Movie Project will be only in theaters, which is kind of a big deal.


and 



> https://walkingdead.fandom.com/wiki/The_Walking_Dead_(Film_Series)
> 
> It was announced on Talking Dead on November 4th, 2018 that Rick Grimes and Anne would return for at least three AMC original films following their leave from the TV Series.
> 
> These films would air on AMC (rather than theaters) and be a direct continuation of Rick's story.


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## Macfury

I think they'd better hurry up with those films, no matter where they are shown — those franchises are growing as cold as 10-year-old walkers.


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## wonderings

I think what makes Walking Dead so great is the tv format. They have had time to explore characters far beyond anything you can do in a movie limited to a few hours. I feel a movie would just be some rushed story long tv episode trying to fit a beginning and ending in 2 hours. Now I have not followed Walking Dead for the last few years, so maybe there is something they are expanding on from the current stories, just seems a strange place to take a tv show that is well suited to long story telling and character development.


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## Macfury

wonderings said:


> Now I have not followed Walking Dead for the last few years, so maybe there is something they are expanding on from the current stories, just seems a strange place to take a tv show that is well suited to long story telling and character development.


The Grimes character was helicoptered elsewhere with grievous injuries a year ago and left the main series. This appears to be an effort to captalize on the interest of any fans who were in it just for Rick.


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## BReligion

Macfury said:


> The Grimes character was helicoptered elsewhere with grievous injuries a year ago and left the main series. This appears to be an effort to captalize on the interest of any fans who were in it just for Rick.


..... and to get him the heck of the show for those who were loosing interest in the show because of Rick :lmao:

BReligion


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## Macfury

BReligion said:


> ..... and to get him the heck of the show for those who were loosing interest in the show because of Rick :lmao:
> 
> BReligion


I've gotta say that if you ran a timeline of Rick's leadership it looks like a constant stream of terrible errors and misjudgements, massive casualties and catastrophic loss. It became laughable to see the other characters talking about how much they needed his leadership.


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## BReligion

Macfury said:


> I've gotta say that if you ran a timeline of Rick's leadership it looks like a constant stream of terrible errors and misjudgements, massive casualties and catastrophic loss. It became laughable to see the other characters talking about how much they needed his leadership.


Yup... I think that was a major major plot device for Rick obviously is "Heavy is the head that wears the crown". I think was the core of the Rick Grimes character and it was just over used for too many seasons. 
He tried not to be the leader (S3 in the prison), when he just became Farmer Rick (which was stupid and boring), and again in Alexandria when he just wanted to be Officer Grimes again. I don't fault all of the characters completely for following. Anyone could have taken the leadership role or splintered off into their own group (say in seasons 1-6). Some did, most didn't... and struggle or not, he did as "leader" keep most of them alive for a long time. No one else stepped up to take Leadership and keep it. 
Lots of past characters died because of their own stupid actions as well as his... but his guilt/vision/moral struggles were getting long winded after so long and with them splitting into the various city/states they did it didn't make sense to keep beating that dead horse.

BReligion


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## Macfury

There were too many stories where one of his decisions would logically have ended in the deaths of everyone--but the writers saved the day. I think of all of the vanquished groups they welcomed with open arms--especially the seniors who were "rescued" from the Governor's colony. All dead.


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## Freddie_Biff

It’s like anything: the novelty wears off after ten years. I really don’t know what the writers of either show could come up with at this point that would seem intriguing and original and I don’t think there is enough interest in Rick Grimes anymore to make one standalone movie let alone three. I prefer a series that runs its logical course rather than beating a dead horse.


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## Macfury

Ultimately, the characters themselves are not interesting enough to carry the show past novelty. The longest running dramatic series succeeded on character development and the likeability of the actors playing them. Walking Dead, on the other hand, took its most likeable characters and killed them for the sake of shock value — which lasts a couple of minutes.

I agree that the Rick Grimes story now has the appeal of a dish of cold, leftover mashed potatoes. Who cares about that guy?



Freddie_Biff said:


> It’s like anything: the novelty wears off after ten years. I really don’t know what the writers of either show could come up with at this point that would seem intriguing and original and I don’t think there is enough interest in Rick Grimes anymore to make one standalone movie let alone three. I prefer a series that runs its logical course rather than beating a dead horse.


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## CubaMark

I thought I'd drop by and share my thoughts on Season 5, Episode 15, "Channel 5"

...but then I read this, and realized, I couldn't do it any better....


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## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> I thought I'd drop by and share my thoughts on Season 5, Episode 15, "Channel 5"
> 
> ...but then I read this, and realized, I couldn't do it any better....


I took a breather at Episode 9, "Channel 4."

I figure that the cost of producing these episodes must be half the cost of a normal show. These are appalling, episodes. Listening to "reporter lady" go on about her "stories" is bordering on the comic. But the sanctimonious nature of these characters is unbearable. How many times have we heard these same stories? How many more times will they be recycled as profound revelations?


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## CubaMark

For nostalgia's sake, let's remember how FTWD started...

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzXglr5bc3w[/ame]


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## Macfury

As I slowly make my way through the remaining _FTWD _episodes, I note how often both series kill interesting dramatic arcs because they want to be "fresh" in their random storytelling. Killing Logan seconds after he commits to working with the survivors to produce gas is simply appalling storytelling. It lets the viewer know that investing any interest in a character or situation is a complete waste of their time. 

The new female badass, Virginia, is a total bore--and a bad actor.

Tom's death and the aftermath were laugh-out-loud bad.

Will also add that the most moving moment of the season finale was the sad death of a horse.

Budgets for this series must be running low, because so many of these episodes involve long periods of time where people sit holed up in small quarters and talk a lot. It appears that the zombie apocalypse came about just so that people could engage in endless self-reflection.


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## Macfury

https://comicbook.com/thewalkingdea...re-showrunners-andrew-chambliss-ian-goldberg/



> Dissatisfied Fear the Walking Dead viewers have launched a petition calling for the firing of showrunners Andrew Chambliss and Ian Goldberg. The petition, put into motion by “BRINGBACKFEAR TWD” on Change.org, calls for Chambliss and Goldberg to be removed and replaced by original three-season showrunner Dave Erickson, who co-created the series with The Walking Dead creator Robert Kirkman. The petition argues Erickson’s successors rebranded the spinoff for a new audience, a move that was a “huge insult to the original fans and to Dave.” ...
> 
> Network AMC has yet to address largely negative fan feedback that has plagued Fear all season. Unfavorable fan reactions to a recent episode went so far as to call the spinoff “unwatchable,” and more reactions to “Channel 5,” the penultimate episode of the season, had some commenters calling it a franchise worst.
> 
> On Rotten Tomatoes, a 60% critics rating gives Fear Season 5 the lowest TomatoMeter score of both shows. Its audience score, 28% from 105 user ratings, is similarly the lowest of the entire franchise. This is down from Season 4, certified fresh at 81% with an audience score of 62%. Season 3 won the highest approval with 83% from critics and 72% from audiences, topping its premiere season (77% critics, 60% audience) and its sophomore season (70% critics, 54% audience).


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## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> For nostalgia's sake, let's remember how FTWD started...
> 
> 
> 
> [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzXglr5bc3w[/ame]




It was better then. And now that family is gone except Alicia.


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## Macfury

TWD 10th season opener was a muddle, but somewhat enjoyable.


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## CubaMark

Freddie_Biff said:


> It was better then. And now that family is gone except Alicia.


Don't get me wrong - I found the characters of Madison, Travis and Nick annoying in the extreme. Alicia had potential. I stated earlier in this thread that I'd be interested in seeing the show follow Ophelia's journey across Zombieland. But the writing has never been particularly _good_ on this show (I see some folks raving about the Season 3 (?) episode "100", which I'll have to go back and rewatch before I retract my statement on the writing).

In any case, FTWD certainly hasn't gone in a direction that I enjoy...


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## Freddie_Biff

CubaMark said:


> Don't get me wrong - I found the characters of Madison, Travis and Nick annoying in the extreme. Alicia had potential. I stated earlier in this thread that I'd be interested in seeing the show follow Ophelia's journey across Zombieland. But the writing has never been particularly _good_ on this show (I see some folks raving about the Season 3 (?) episode "100", which I'll have to go back and rewatch before I retract my statement on the writing).
> 
> 
> 
> In any case, FTWD certainly hasn't gone in a direction that I enjoy...




It always felt to me like a bad remake of a 70’s cop show for some reason. In any event, I watched the premiere of Season 10 last night and I think they did an admirable job with what they have to work with. Still hard to imagine Negan could be content with picking tomatoes though.


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## Macfury

I think it beats sitting in the basement.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Still hard to imagine Negan could be content with picking tomatoes though.


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## Macfury

Anyone see the trailer for the unnamed THIRD _Walking Dead _series? Nothing to inspire here, folks.


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## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> Anyone see the trailer for the unnamed THIRD _Walking Dead _series? Nothing to inspire here, folks.


Thanks for the tip - just checked it out, and I agree. TWD for teens. Ick.


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## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> Thanks for the tip - just checked it out, and I agree. TWD for teens. Ick.


It seems that the only novelty is that the walkers are covered with moss now.


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## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> It seems that the only novelty is that the walkers are covered with moss now.


And... 10 years after the zombie apocalypse... that's exactly where TWD is right now...


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## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> And... 10 years after the zombie apocalypse... that's exactly where TWD is right now...


You're right--and no mossy walkers.


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## CubaMark

Macfury said:


> You're right--and no mossy walkers.


I will say, though, that the Season 10 opener of TWD went the extra mile with the soggy decrepit walkers.... eeeeeewwwwww!!!!!!! :lmao:


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## BReligion

Macfury said:


> Anyone see the trailer for the unnamed THIRD _Walking Dead _series? Nothing to inspire here, folks.


You mean the Walking Breakfast Club Dead?
Looks absolutely stupid. And I am normally the guy who says I am sure it will be okay even if not great any expansion of the series universe is probably a good thing? Maybe?


... in terms of timing.. they have a city, with secure walls, university and schools and 9K or people at the same time our band of merry idiots have established a working radio and phalanx. Yeeeaah. Okay.

BReligion


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## Macfury

CubaMark said:


> I will say, though, that the Season 10 opener of TWD went the extra mile with the soggy decrepit walkers.... eeeeeewwwwww!!!!!!! :lmao:


At some point you would want to know how they continue to expend energy as their mass decays. If a brain shot kills them, then its still essential for their neural networks to operate sufficiently - clearly their nerves are rotted right through. By now they should be weak as (dead) kittens.


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## Macfury

BReligion said:


> You mean the Walking Breakfast Club Dead?
> Looks absolutely stupid. And I am normally the guy who says I am sure it will be okay even if not great any expansion of the series universe is probably a good thing? Maybe?
> 
> 
> ... in terms of timing.. they have a city, with secure walls, university and schools and 9K or people at the same time our band of merry idiots have established a working radio and phalanx. Yeeeaah. Okay.
> 
> BReligion



The Walking Dead pulls in only 4 million viewers per episode. FTWD pulls in less than half of that. Both numbers are in steady decline. I don't understand how that can make these financially viable enterprises. You would think increasing the viewership on the flagship series would be the way to go, but clearly someone thinks that adding another product to the franchise is the key to financial success.


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## Macfury

The news that _The Walking Dead_ series will end (in two years) seems to have inspired relief, rather than massive write-in campaigns. The series will be forever marked by the stain of terrible story arcs and deaths of so many major characters that few characters of interest remain.

Is anybody clamouring for these three Rick Grimes movies at this point?

At any rate, the large number of current and proposed spin-offs will continue to grind on for some time to come.


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## Freddie_Biff

I’ve pretty much lost interest though I did enjoy the first few seasons. I don’t think the Rick Grimes movies are getting made. Nobody cares anymore.


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## Macfury

Freddie_Biff said:


> I’ve pretty much lost interest though I did enjoy the first few seasons. I don’t think the Rick Grimes movies are getting made. Nobody cares anymore.


Last I heard, the Grimes films are still on the production treadmill.. but I have no idea who the intended audience might be.


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## wonderings

Stopped watching, or at least keeping up with it in the season that introduced the Negan character. It was a pretty dark season, don't think I finished the entire thing. Not because I really disliked it but life just got busy and sitting around watching tv at that point was not a high priority. Have never gotten around to picking it up again though probably will once it is all complete and I know the ending is in sight. Generally hate open ended stories on TV as you never know when they will be canceled and leave you high and dry.

I love the show, not for the zombies but the survival aspect. I have always been intrigued by these stories of humanity picking up or at least trying to rebuild after something catastrophic. This should could have been great without the zombies as well as we soon see that mankind is the biggest monster of them all. Would love to see a series like this with no supernatural, no government conspiracies, just work almost ended and people are trying to start over.


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## Macfury

wonderings said:


> I love the show, not for the zombies but the survival aspect. I have always been intrigued by these stories of humanity picking up or at least trying to rebuild after something catastrophic.


This is the aspect that always intrigues me. Scavenging, repurposing, rebuilding. I'm happy just to watch that characters do this intelligently. A few epsiodes of The Walking Dead did exactly that and they are among my favourites.


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## Macfury

*Walking Dead: World Beyond*

I eventually watched this out of the corner of my eye while working. Clearly written for sensitive Gen-Z viewers. Some self-absorbed (and largely irritating) characters traverse the walker landscape 10 years on. Short on action, big on tears. Preposterous story arc. Poor character motivation. Clumsy action sequences. Occasionally atmospheric. One nice sequence featuring shadow puppets.

Kids may like it.


----------



## wonderings

Macfury said:


> *Walking Dead: World Beyond*
> 
> I eventually watched this out of the corner of my eye while working. Clearly written for sensitive Gen-Z viewers. Some self-absorbed (and largely irritating) characters traverse the walker landscape 10 years on. Short on action, big on tears. Preposterous story arc. Poor character motivation. Clumsy action sequences. Occasionally atmospheric. One nice sequence featuring shadow puppets.
> 
> Kids may like it.


Is this the one where they are in some secure place and there is a school and these teenagers sneak out? I had no interest in that spin off at all and I generally love all end of the world type stories to see how people survive and rebuild.


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## Macfury

wonderings said:


> Is this the one where they are in some secure place and there is a school and these teenagers sneak out? I had no interest in that spin off at all and I generally love all end of the world type stories to see how people survive and rebuild.


That's the one. The kids have lived in a walled off university for 10 years, but behave exactly as kids today. They mostly stumble along and survive by luck, but keep telling each other how great they are. Participation trophies for all!


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## wonderings

Macfury said:


> That's the one. The kids have lived in a walled off university for 10 years, but behave exactly as kids today. They mostly stumble along and survive by luck, but keep telling each other how great they are. Participation trophies for all!


That is what loses it for me as it does not seem realistic for the world that has been created.


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## Macfury

I watched an episode of the final season today. One of the most pathetic scenes ever involved Maggie telling her crew not to open a door to rescue some hapless team member because the walkers would get in and they did not have the ammo to clear them. Walkers were so far away it was laughable. Took several minutes for them to reach the guy, He could have been rescued in a second. Pretty funny.

Anybody looking forward to those Rick Grimes movies?


----------



## Macfury

The last few episodes for the final season are not so bad. Anybody watch _Black Summer_, filmed in Alberta?


----------



## Macfury

Tuned into Fear the Walking Dead, Season 7. This is a new sort of bad, set in a nuclear wasteland that anyone can leave but doesn't. It's finally crossed the line from sub-standard into "so-bad-it's good"!


----------

