# Media center alternatives vs Apple TV



## pictor (Jan 29, 2007)

Has anyone set up things like an xbox 360 or PS3 as an alternative media center instead of an apple tv? I am trying to ponder the merits of either approach.

The main PS3 pro is the blu-ray player, but I am wondering at what cost, what do you lose out on that the Apple TV offers? I am guessing iTunes DRM is a big one, and native understanding of things like the iPhoto and iTunes library structure. 

I am leaning to Apple TV, but it'd be nice having the option of the blu-ray player, and to add that afterwards makes the whole package quite pricey.

Just wondering about people's approach to media center solutions.


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## johnnyspade (Aug 24, 2007)

If you play games then the PS3 is a given as the built in BluRay makes it an excellent value. I have an Apple TV but use it primarily for the movie rental. You can rent movies in High Definition but they won't look as good as BluRay so keep that in mind as you make your decision.

If you do decide on a PS3 then you also need this:
Nullriver Software : Products : MediaLink

I use their similar product for the 360 and love it.


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## Suge (Oct 29, 2007)

i'm thinking of getting one of those multifunctional NAS boxes. qnap makes pretty good ones. it's expensive but does so many things, including media streaming. 

also consider the 360's dvd drive is kinda noisy when it gets going. if you decide on a standalone blueray player make sure the access time is ok. some of them are soo slow.


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## lindmar (Nov 13, 2003)

I recently bought an old xbox softmodded with a big harddrive. I hooked it up to my computer upstairs...

I got the Mediastream Skin which is awesome. Downloads all my artwork/ fan art, movie info etc..

I stream everything from upstairs to down. Plays DVD rips great. I have about 50% of my collection ripped.

I occasional grab xvids to catch up on tv shows I miss.

Can be bought cheap too, usually on kijiji cheap.


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

I have both the AppleTV and a PS3 with media link. 

I'd take the AppleTV anyday I over the PS3. Main reason is that since you can rent HD movies from the iTunes store now, I haven't rented a BR DVD since. 

Of course, the integration of the AppleTV wins hands down. 

All different formats that I come across are easily handled by VisualHub for conversion to the AppleTV's format. 

The AppleTV has been great and I'd pit it against any other solution for getting your content from your computer to your TV.


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## johnnyspade (Aug 24, 2007)

Vexel said:


> I'd take the AppleTV anyday I over the PS3. Main reason is that since you can rent HD movies from the iTunes store now, I haven't rented a BR DVD since.


This may depend on the quality of his equipment though. You can rent HD movies on iTunes but they're not in 1080p. If you have a television that supports 1080p then watching on BluRay does look better. Both look great but the 1080p is pretty stunning.


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

No iTunes = FAIL!


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## pictor (Jan 29, 2007)

Vexel said:


> I have both the AppleTV and a PS3 with media link.
> 
> I'd take the AppleTV anyday I over the PS3. Main reason is that since you can rent HD movies from the iTunes store now, I haven't rented a BR DVD since.
> 
> ...


Cool, thanks, that helps a lot.

My TV is only 26" in any case (HD, just smallish), so 720p content will be plenty.


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

pictor said:


> Cool, thanks, that helps a lot.
> 
> My TV is only 26" in any case (HD, just smallish), so 720p content will be plenty.


Exactly my situation. I have a 26" as well.. so, 720 is definitely plenty. I have watched Bluray DVD's on it, sure they're a little better, but not enough to sway me either way considering the size.

That said, if I was 42" or greater, I'd probably have a dedicated BluRay player either way and still have the AppleTV hooked up for the rest of my content.


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## cliffx (May 23, 2007)

lindmar said:


> I recently bought an old xbox softmodded with a big harddrive. I hooked it up to my computer upstairs...


Agreed, XBMC is by far the best media centre going, that I have seen or used to date. No silly DRM restrictions, and can be configured to access just about any type of home network - and the content contained on it.


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

cliffx said:


> Agreed, XBMC is by far the best media centre going, that I have seen or used to date. No silly DRM restrictions, and can be configured to access just about any type of home network - and the content contained on it.


One more bonus for the XBMC - I just installed this on my XBOX and can now use my iPhone to navigate and control XBMC (via Safari).


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## Drysilver (Dec 6, 2008)

not meaning to spam... but I found bluraymerchant.com to have some really good deals for Blurays.... I'd go with AppleTV though.


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## Corvillus (Nov 15, 2007)

Modded Xbox with XBMC would be my bet if you have mostly MPEG-4 ASP (DivX/XviD) and MPEG-2 (DVD) content. Only problem is it does not go above 720p, and MPEG-4 AVC (h.264) does not play well at all (sluggish even at 480p without tweaks).

If not, I'd go with either an AppleTV (yes I know you want alternatives, but the thing does a really good job for its price) and hack it with either XBMC or Boxee (which is a fork of XBMC more geared toward internet streaming).

Alternatively a cheap HTPC in a small form factor case running a media centric Linux distribution will work well too.

As for the various NAS devices, those will also do the job, but you don't get anywhere near the same level of format compatibility (you'll get MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 ASP / AVC, but the actual container file formats are very limited compared to the above solutions). Same goes for Xbox 360 and PS3 (unless you put Linux on the PS3 but then you lose accelerated video playback).


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

The other devices/hacks/workarounds that compete with Apple TV do, on occasion, have the odd nifty feature that Apple TV doesn't yet have. There was a lengthy thread started by a fellow living in Dubai at the moment that compared AppleTV to the local alternative at great length. Although he ended up purchasing the local alternative, the Apple TV was actually a better idea (not for him, but only because of location).

At this stage of the game, I still believe Apple TV is your best VALUE in this arena, primarily because the smart money RENTS hi-def movies right now rather than BUYS them, and renting online is sooooo easy.

I suppose if you're a) very hacker-oriented and b) want to watch .mkv formatted anime or .avi pr0n all the time, there are better solutions for that specific activity than AppleTV. But in the main, people want a device that will throw music, photos and their own movies from iTunes to the best monitor and sound system in the house, their HDTV setup. They'd like to watch YouTube videos and rent movies or buy TV shows directly from their box. And they'd like it all to work beautifully with minimal effort on their part.

That leaves the AppleTV and pretty much nothing else. At least for now.


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## jeepguy (Apr 4, 2008)

I just picked up one of these to play my *1080p and 720p MKV* content, and it plays 1080p content flawlessly, and no chas_m it's not p0rn, we don't do that  

here's a mac sites review
MacRecon » Hardware Review :: Popcorn Hour NMT A-110

So far I'm impressed, it sees my iMac share folder, and I can stream music or videos from my iMac, I can also push content to it with my iMac.


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## treysik (Aug 27, 2008)

This is a debate I keep having with myself. AppleTV or one of the "others", such as Popcorns NMT.

I love the fact that AppleTV is just so simple and uses iTunes. I just started buying from iTunes after switching, so my "purchased" library is very small.

I have 200+ movies in .AVI format. I would love to get those in iTunes and although it can be done, its not the easiest. I could take the easy route and buy one of the "others" and save myself a TON of time. 

I have yet to purchase anything because of this self debate I am having. I think I will end up going for the AppleTV. But when I look at the "others" seeing the fact they support .AVI from the get go, just attracts me. I should stop shopping around and just order the AppleTV and be done with it.


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## okcomputer (Jul 18, 2005)

Is AppleTV capable of 1080p with Boxee or XBMC installed?

I don't think it's capable of 1080p at all, and I know the Apple TV software is 720p only.

So that is one major drawback compared to Popcorn hour, which will play 1080p mkv, and pretty much any other file, out of the box without having to hack it and install other software.

I would definitely appreciate the iTunes integration, and the iPhone remote capability, but I'm leaning more towards Popcorn Hour.


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## matriculated (Jan 2, 2008)

AppleTV just doesn't have enough juice for 1080p according to the Boxee forums. The Mac Mini does though.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

treysik said:


> This is a debate I keep having with myself. AppleTV or one of the "others", such as Popcorns NMT.


And by no means should it be implied that I don't think the Popcorn thing is nifty. It comes down to value, and imho the AppleTV still holds the lead there, largely because no iTunes = consumer FAIL again imho.



> I have 200+ movies in .AVI format. I would love to get those in iTunes and although it can be done, its not the easiest.


???

Sure it is. Drop a few of them (let's say "a dozen") into VisualHub each night before you go to bed. Next morning, there's a dozen "new" movies in your iTunes library. Repeat as needed. Short of native support, that's as easy as it could possibly get.



> I have yet to purchase anything because of this self debate I am having. I think I will end up going for the AppleTV. But when I look at the "others" seeing the fact they support .AVI from the get go, just attracts me. I should stop shopping around and just order the AppleTV and be done with it.


Nobody said you can't hack an AppleTV to support AVI files, only that for many people it's not even worth the bother.


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## treysik (Aug 27, 2008)

Thanks chas_m.

I wasn't aware of VisualHub. The other methods I looked up were far more difficult then that and time consuming. 

However, after searching for VisualHub, it has been discontinued. Bah, that stink!


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

Timely discussion here. I have been using a Mac Mini as a home theatre box for about a year now and I'd say my experience has been lukewarm, at best.

I have been experimenting with Plex on my Mini. It has promise but it's a bit quirky and difficult to use (configure). I'm going to try XMBC to see if I like it better.

Regarding Apple TV, the inability to play mkv files kills it for me. The Popcorn box looks most promising. Where can I see one? Do an Toronto retailers carry it? What's the OS on it?


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## treysik (Aug 27, 2008)

Actually, I found this:

Video Converter for Mac, Convert AVI,MPEG,FLV,WMV,MP4,MOV on Mac

I am going to try it this week sometime and see how it goes. Looks promising - I will see what the free version has to offer. Unless someone has experience with this.

Cheers,

J


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## jeepguy (Apr 4, 2008)

hhk said:


> Timely discussion here. I have been using a Mac Mini as a home theatre box for about a year now and I'd say my experience has been lukewarm, at best.
> 
> I have been experimenting with Plex on my Mini. It has promise but it's a bit quirky and difficult to use (configure). I'm going to try XMBC to see if I like it better.
> 
> Regarding Apple TV, the inability to play mkv files kills it for me. The Popcorn box looks most promising. Where can I see one? Do an Toronto retailers carry it? What's the OS on it?


There is a Brampton based online e-taler that has them, as well as other brands, but not all of them play mkv files.


> Welcome - Only Best Rated : Top Rated High Definition DivX, XviD and WMV compatible Video Products from Technical Guys


I have an apple tv which I use for rentals, and itunes, but I needed something that could also play HD MTS files from my canon camcorder, and I didn't want to spend hours and hours down converting them to a lessor format. 

For iTunes integration and HD movie rentals the apple TV can't be beat, but it falls short on other formats, namely MKV, and MTS files for me. I would love it if apple released a supped up version with a faster processor, and Full 1080p support, I would be the first in line, or a improved Mac Mini.


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## [email protected] (Sep 24, 2007)

Depends how much you rely on the itunes store, if you already have or plan to get a lot of content from there, then Apple TV makes a lot of sense...

Otherwise I'd go with the Xbox 360, $200 (plus $20 for a Mac compatible program), best gaming unit, the streaming works very well in my experience, there is a digital store if you want, which does do HD (for rentals)...


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## Irie Guy (Dec 2, 2003)

Handbrake does a fine job for converting video files to Apple Tv format. I also use it to rip my DVD's.


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## keebler27 (Jan 5, 2007)

here's my question which is an honest, open question to anyone:

with all the different media formats and diff. hardware/software - is there 1 company can step up to the plate and provide the be all solution?

Myself, I don't have a widescreen TV yet. My tv can play WS content so an apple tv is a possibility. However, I have enough music and movies that I would need a larger HD or 2, plus the equivalent to raid it.

I have over 80 hours of family movies that i would like to transfer, keep in their raw dv format (some may think this is dumb and i often wonder if it is  , plus I would compress into mp4s. 

I think it would be neat as heck for my kids to easily whip up their birth or 1st birthdays etc..

that said, I don't know if an apple tv would do the trick. I think it would be great if apple developed a mac mini/apple tv combo with a hard drive capabilities (ie. esata would be great). I'm just thinking outloud, but I do wonder if 1 company can provide the 'it' solution.

Because, if a company does, i think it will boom well. I know i'm ready for it.

Cheers,
Keebler


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## JustAMacUser (Oct 21, 2007)

treysik said:


> after searching for VisualHub, it has been discontinued. Bah, that stink!


Try this:

Old Version of iSquint for Mac Download

From the same developer. It doesn't have as many features as the paid version (VisualHub) but works well.

I think the latest version of Handbrake will also convert source files (I haven't downloaded it because the developers removed its internal ability* to rip DVDs, which I like):

HandBrake

*The feature is still there if one installs the free VLC player apparently.


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## JustAMacUser (Oct 21, 2007)

keebler27 said:


> here's my question which is an honest, open question to anyone:
> 
> with all the different media formats and diff. hardware/software - is there 1 company can step up to the plate and provide the be all solution?


Handbrake with VLC is probably as close as we'll get. Ripping commercial DVDs is questionable from a legal standpoint in a few countries so it's unlikely that a mainstream company will develop anything as efficient. Some companies have released software that rips DVDs without breaking the encryption (and thereby the law in some countries) but those applications rip the movie in real time (by playing it then capturing each frame). Not nearly as fast as a tool like Handbrake.


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## treysik (Aug 27, 2008)

Thanks! I will try the old iSquint too. I want to ensure I can drop files in a batch and have them go from AVI to MP4 (for iTunes) while I sleep.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

keebler27 said:


> here's my question which is an honest, open question to anyone:
> 
> with all the different media formats and diff. hardware/software - is there 1 company can step up to the plate and provide the be all solution?


No, and you can (honestly!) blame Microsoft for this.

First, MS are CONSTANTLY tinkering with, releasing and then abandoning "standards" for video which Windows uses mindlessly follow.

Second, the MS codecs are generally awful and don't play well with other platforms, creating a "market" for better quality and/or lower file size and/or better audio options and/or more flexibility in encoding ... you get the idea ... to which the open-source world has responded valiantly, but inconsistently and like any committee-driven purpose there are 50 solutions offered, all of THEM evolving too. Only geeks like this sort of "choice"; consumers hate it.

A company that tried to keep up would be updating their software and possibly even firmware every week or two. Very unprofitable notion.

The only real approach a company not looking to lose their shirt can take is the one Apple has taken: find the codecs you think are the most robust, reliable, best overall (you'll never please everyone) and likely to stick around in their present form.

Look at the ones they've chosen to support: 720p, 1080i, MP3, JPG, TIFF, AAC, WAV and MP4. All these codecs are industry accepted, stable, and equal across platforms. It isn't as "bleeding edge" as playing MKVs natively on your device, but that's dork-boy, no-profit territory.


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