# Criminal Record



## canuck123 (Jun 30, 2009)

Hi,

My girlfriend got a conditional discharge 2 years ago. It was supposed to go off her record this last November, but it hasnt yet. She went for a bank job and it came up when they did a check. They asked why she didnt mention it at the interview - they never called back. 

Supposedly, it will go off the computers in 3 years - atleast thats what her probation officer and lawyer have told her.

Anyways, she got another interview with BelAir Direct, and she is scared $hitless. She is actually over qualified for the position, but doesnt know what to do/expect when/if she is asked if she has a record. I am sure they will check.

I told her to tell them that she got a speeding ticket and that she was going 60mph+ the posted zone. By the way, she got the discharge for fraud when she worked at best buy. She would make false claims/returns with her friends which ultimately got her fired, and $15,000 court fees.

I am pretty sure when am employer does a check, it doesnt say what the person got the discharge for. So instead of saying she admitted to fraud (lol) to make up the speeding thing. 

Can anyone give me some advice because she needs to get a job, we are planning on buying a house soon and we cant lafford et this get in the way. Is there any way to get around this when getting asked this at an interview?

Thank you


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

I don't have any specific advice, as this is a bit of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

But I would suggest that she check with the provincial Human Rights Commission, and seek some legal advice from them. (If you are in Ontario, take a look here: Ontario Human Rights Commission ) She might have some leeway there.


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

Advice: Be honest, and tell the truth. Her conviction isn't a guarantee she won't get the job (though it certainly doesn't help...), but lying about it is even worse. (Personal integrity.)


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Trying to hire at a bank with a fraud conviction is a guaranteed no go. Bankers consider fraud perpetrated by the bank as an entirely legitimate business practice but are absolutely paranoid about being victimized.beejacon

Seriously there are jobs where a fraud conviction would not be viewed as a big threat by an employer. 

Beyond that people usually commit fraud to support drugs, gambling or some other expensive habit/vice. She should be completely prepared to divulge this along with the steps she has taken to break free of whatever vice or habit was involved.

As mentioned earlier better to be honest and take a shot on the chin than to start a new job out with a lie. Furthermore hiring under false pretenses could leave her open to coercion should someone discover her past. She could end up facing even more serious charges.


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## simon (Nov 2, 2002)

When the potential employer checked there was a "not cleared" answer returned ... this doesn't give them any particulars of any record but your girlfriend's name wasn't given an all clear. The conditional discharge record will not be removed for three years and only after all conditions of the discharge are met. 

This is from the John Howard Society ...

Does a discharge result in a criminal record?

Yes. Although a discharge is not considered a conviction, a record of an absolute or conditional discharge is kept by CPIC and by the charging police agency. The Criminal Records Act states that, except in exceptional circumstances:

no record of an absolute discharge may be disclosed after one year from the discharge date
if the discharge is conditional, no record may be disclosed after three years.
When these specified time periods have passed, the automated CPIC database is purged of discharge records. Further, any hard copy documents, including fingerprints, are destroyed. In effect, once the purge date has passed, CPIC has no record of the discharged offence. However, a record of an offence for which an individual has received a conditional or absolute discharge remains in existence after the purge date has passed. Such records are archived in a special repository in Ottawa for five years after they have been purged from CPIC. The Criminal Records Act provides that in exceptional circumstances, when fingerprints of a discharged person have been found at the scene of a crime or in an attempt to discover the identity of a deceased or amnesic person, the name, date of birth and last known address of the person may be obtained, even if the discharge information has been purged from the database. This information is obtained from records kept in the special repository for criminal records in Ottawa.

In addition, if the discharge was given before July 24, 1992, a record of the offence may remain on CPIC and information may be obtained from the database in exceptional circumstances.

If a criminal record check is done before the purge date has passed, the check will indicate either that a record "may or may not exist" OR that it is "not cleared." If a full record is then requested, it will show that a discharge was given. Individuals who received a discharge before July 24, 1992, can have their record purged from the system by submitting their request in writing to the RCMP, whose address can be found at the end of this document. Discharges given before this date will be not removed automatically.

Note: There have been instances where absolute and conditional discharges have not been removed from the CPIC system after the specified time period. In such cases, the individual's criminal record check has come back "not cleared" or stated that a "record may or may not exist." If this occurs, the individual should notify local police, who will forward a letter to RCMP Head-quarters in Ottawa informing them of the error and requesting that the discharge be removed from CPIC.


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

Adding... in general, you cannot discriminate against a criminal record (and I don't have enough knowledge of employment law to get into the fine details about what is okay and what is not).

But you CAN discriminate against liars.

She has to be honest, but perhaps OHC can give her some finer detail about what she has to answer.


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## canuck123 (Jun 30, 2009)

So the best advice is basically tell the interviewer that you admitted to guilt for fraud. Hmmm. No thanks.

There has to be another way around this.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

canuck123 said:


> So the best advice is basically tell the interviewer that you admitted to guilt for fraud. Hmmm. No thanks.
> 
> There has to be another way around this.


There is NOTHING better than honesty. If she doesn't come clean and face the consequences, she is basically "committing fraud" all over again.

Think about that long and hard.


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## canuck123 (Jun 30, 2009)

SINC said:


> There is NOTHING better than honesty. If she doesn't come clean and face the consequences, she is basically "committing fraud" all over again.
> 
> Think about that long and hard.


There is - just dont go to the iterview at all. What is the point, right?

The thing is, the discharge will be off her record in 6 months and she will be clear. I am just trying to think of the best thing to say when asked what she got discharged for. I will be contacing Human Rights tomorrow.

Driving without insurance is a possiblity?? Or even careless driving??


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

I'm completely with SINC on this one. If the OP's "solution" is to tell his gf to lie (fabricate another story to cover it) or commit fraud again (attempt to deceive the employer by not mentioning it), hands up everyone here who would hire this person, or want to be a customer of this person.

Until that record is completely expunged, your only real option is to be completely honest. After the record is expunged, it would probably be wise to limit your job search to fields where such a discharge is not an automatic disqualifying factor, since employers who REALLY want to know can usually find out anyway.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

canuck, this is just lying. Asking people to help you craft a craftier lie is not cool at all.


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


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## canuck123 (Jun 30, 2009)

I guess the decision is unanimous - tell the truth about being convicted of fraud and cross your fingers. Thanks guys.


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## simon (Nov 2, 2002)

canuck123 said:


> I guess the decision is unanimous - tell the truth about being convicted of fraud and cross your fingers. Thanks guys.


If she has complied and completed all the terms of her conditional discharge (probation, fines, community service etc.) she can LEGALLY answer she does not have a criminal record - because she doesn't. That's what a conditional discharge is. She is not lying or committing another fraud by not mentioning her conviction.

The problem lies in the fact that the criminal record is kept for another three years AFTER THAT on the CPIC database which will return a reply other than "all clear" when an inquiry is made. This just becomes a big red flag to the employer to dismiss an applicant with so many people looking for work. Actual details of the criminal record cannot be released in any inquiry without the person actually submitting written permission and having their fingerprints taken to confirm identification.


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## canuck123 (Jun 30, 2009)

simon said:


> If she has complied and completed all the terms of her conditional discharge (probation, fines, community service etc.) she can LEGALLY answer she does not have a criminal record - because she doesn't. That's what a conditional discharge is. She is not lying or committing another fraud by not mentioning her conviction.
> 
> The problem lies in the fact that the criminal record is kept for another three years AFTER THAT on the CPIC database which will return a reply other than "all clear" when an inquiry is made. This just becomes a big red flag to the employer to dismiss an applicant with so many people looking for work. Actual details of the criminal record cannot be released in any inquiry without the person actually submitting written permission and having their fingerprints taken to confirm identification.


The discharge was for 2 years and 40 hours of volunteer work. She did her 40 hours in the first couple of months, and the 2 years date came sept 09. When she went to check if it was gone at the police station, they told her it was still up. The police, her probation officer and lawyer all told her to wait 2 months and it should go off by itself.

She did, and as I mentioned it came up again at the final stages of a good bank job. She actually told them the truth, on exactly what happened - obviously they didn't call her back. She called her prob officer and lawyer again telling them what happened and they told her it stays on her record for another year - big mess. 

Are you saying it stays on her record 3 years after her 2 years of the conditional discharge is up? We are lost on this whole issue cause nobody seems to know what they are talking about. She is going to the police station tomorrow to do another check to see what comes up.

I thought on her next interview she can say it was a driving without insurance/careless driving or speeding 50 over the limit when she was young and didn't want to tell her parents and had no money for a lawyer - so she admitted to guilt and got a discharge.

She is not a bad person at all, what happened at her last job is a LONG story but it was basically some employees and 'friends' practically bullying her to do fake returns and getting her arrested for fraud.

What is her best route here? If asked if she has a criminal record, and she says no and they do a check and 'not cleared' comes up - doesn't this pretty much kill all chances? The bank specifically asked her why she didn't mention she had a 2 year discharge and had to do 40 hours of community service. I guess that was all posted for her to see.

Again, any help other than telling the truth (as bad as that sounds) is appreciated.

Thanks


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## simon (Nov 2, 2002)

First thing I would suggest is not to compound the situation by lying.

Your girlfriend can honestly say she does not have a record but unfortunately the criminal discharge will stay on file for another 3 to 5 years (google this - I did) - this CPIC record is what causes the red flag. The bank shouldn't been able to see any of the criminal record unless the discharge was not completed (this is probably why they knew the details). After the conditions are met the record is purged but remains in the system for the additional years until purged again - IF your girlfriend remains arrest and conviction free.

Word of warning - DO NOT TRAVEL to the US until her record is purged. If US customs checks the CPIC records for any reason while her file is active she will most likely be banned from entering the US for life as they keep their own records which will not be purged EVER.

Lastly, I'm sorry your girlfriend has this problem because it's going to be an issue for a long time and it's not going to go away anytime soon. Even if she was roped into this by her so-called friends - she obviously participated otherwise she wouldn't have been charged (hindsight would have been to say no and report this to her manager or somebody higher up) 

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time ...


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

simon said:


> ....
> Word of warning - DO NOT TRAVEL to the US until her record is purged. If US customs checks the CPIC records for any reason while her file is active she will most likely be banned from entering the US for life as they keep their own records which will not be purged EVER.
> ...


+1

Excellent advice. In this era of lunacy the Untied State of Paranoia is spending $100$ of $billions$ supposedly to protect their citizens from the 1 in a million chance they will be killed by a terrorist. Makes no sense but rest assured the chances she will encounter common sense in this poisoned atmosphere are pretty much nil.


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## canuck123 (Jun 30, 2009)

simon said:


> First thing I would suggest is not to compound the situation by lying.
> 
> Your girlfriend can honestly say she does not have a record but unfortunately the criminal discharge will stay on file for another 3 to 5 years (google this - I did) - this CPIC record is what causes the red flag. The bank shouldn't been able to see any of the criminal record unless the discharge was not completed (this is probably why they knew the details). After the conditions are met the record is purged but remains in the system for the additional years until purged again - IF your girlfriend remains arrest and conviction free.
> 
> ...


Some people are just not cut out to give advice. 

1. A conditional discharge stays on your record for 3 years. Google it again.

2. My girlfriend has been to Vegas, NY, San Francisco and Buffalo with me in the last year, absolutely no problems ever.

3. She has met all her conditions in her discharge which was actually only 2. To do 40 hours of community service, and don't get arrested in 2 years. Done.

4. This will stay on her 'record' for another 8 months, not a 'very long time' lol.

I appreciate you trying to help - but don't pull stuff out of your asss when you are obviously as lost as I am on this issue.

Sorry.


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## simon (Nov 2, 2002)

canuck123 said:


> Some people are just not cut out to give advice.
> 
> 1. A conditional discharge stays on your record for 3 years. Google it again.
> 
> ...



excuse me? I spent sometime trying to help but if you want to be an ass then you are on your own ... some people have no consideration or manners. Some of this advise is from actual experience but obviously you know better so ... 

here's some final things to chew on

1. Google it again, obviously you did and read one page. The record stay on file for 3 years AFTER the fact not altogether. In some cases is can stay up to 5 years or more (this factoid was from the RCMP site) and it can remain forever if the charging police department refuses to purge their records.

2. Obviously US customs and immigration did not do a hard check on your girlfriend when she traveled to the US, this can happen any time and for no reason other than you looked the guard funny or he/she was in a nasty mood. If they had or do while her conditional discharge is active she will (not maybe) be banned from traveling to the US FOREVER. She/you were just lucky - push your luck if you want.

3. no comment

4. that's her initial condition discharge - the CPIC database record remain and will so some time and that my clueless poster is the issue I have been pushing.

After this you are on your own - you obviously don't want the truth. I'm not going to go into my personal history but I have first hand experience on what happens and what you should expect ... if you want to call that pulling answers out my ass then you can kiss it too


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## canuck123 (Jun 30, 2009)

simon said:


> excuse me? I spent sometime trying to help but if you want to be an ass then you are on your own ... some people have no consideration or manners. Some of this advise is from actual experience but obviously you know better so ...
> 
> here's some final things to chew on
> 
> ...


1. How can a police station 'refuse' to purge records? Easy lawsuit here. Like i said, google it again, call a probation officer and lawyer - I have. It stays on for 3 years from date of given discharge. Remember this is not a criminal record.

2. if you have a drugs conviction (not discharge) or weapons conviction (not discharge) you MITE have a hard time getting into the US. Anything else is no problem. You will never be banned from traveling there unless you are caught trying to do a terrorist act obviously. I talked to probably 15 lawyers when we where going to vegas last year and they all told me the same thing. Unless you have a drugs or weapons criminal record charge, you will have no problem at all. What she got was a conditional discharge - listen up. You need to do your homework before posting 'warnings' to people traveling to the US. You mite get off by doing so, but not everyone is an idiot.

Anyways, thanks again for trying. I talked to Human Rights this morning and we are confident going into this now. Good luck in life sir.

P.S. On the way to vegas, me and my gf were fooling around in line through customs and laughing/joking (not sure why lol). The officer was PISSSED he told us to go back, and approach the counter one at a time, and with a 'serious attitude'. He proceeded to harass us on why we weren't working compared to going on vacation - how lucky we where and spoiled... etc. Situation couldn't have gotten any worse it took us probably 20 minutes each to get by - but she never got asked anything about her discharge lol.


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## simon (Nov 2, 2002)

canuck123 said:


> 1. How can a police station 'refuse' to purge records? Easy lawsuit here. Like i said, google it again, call a probation officer and lawyer - I have. It stays on for 3 years from date of given discharge. Remember this is not a criminal record.
> 
> 2. if you have a drugs conviction (not discharge) or weapons conviction (not discharge) you MITE have a hard time getting into the US. Anything else is no problem. You will never be banned from traveling there unless you are caught trying to do a terrorist act obviously. I talked to probably 15 lawyers when we where going to vegas last year and they all told me the same thing. Unless you have a drugs or weapons criminal record charge, you will have no problem at all. What she got was a conditional discharge - listen up. You need to do your homework before posting 'warnings' to people traveling to the US. You mite get off by doing so, but not everyone is an idiot.
> 
> ...


She/you have just been lucky Criminal Ineligibility • U.S. Consular Services in Canada



> If you have any criminal record, no matter how minor or how long ago the offense, you may be refused a visa or entry to the United States. There may also be problems in traveling through U.S. airports. Under U.S. law, a pardon issued by Canadian authorities is not recognized for purposes of entry into the United States. Even though you may have entered the United States without hindrance in the past, you may be denied entry at a future date based upon disclosure/discovery of your criminality.
> 
> Not all criminal convictions create an ineligibility to enter the U.S., but any past criminal record must be declared. Attempting to gain entry without declaring that you have been arrested could result in a permanent ineligibility and/or detention at a U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) enforcement facility while a CBP officer determines your admissibility.


as for talking to 15 lawyers about this - I call you out as a liar on that. One, that is heck of a lot of money and time to pay out for an answer and two, the answer above is right from the US Government so I doubt that any lawyer worth his rate would have told you different than that.

Not all police jurisdictions have the same policies and there is no law for them to purge their records of her arrest, so good luck suing them

For the rest, believe what you want, it's obvious you only want the answer that it will go away and all will be better in eight months. From personal experience, and even with a condition discharge, this will last for more than a few years and haunt her for the rest of her life as it is never really "gone". If you want to be naive and believe otherwise then good luck to you too.


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## canuck123 (Jun 30, 2009)

1. Read the first sentence of your quote - she doesn't have one. What she has is a dis-charge - big difference! You wasted your time again. 

2. I didn't pay for the time of 15 lawyers lol - I simply looked them up in the yellow pages and called the. Some where nice - some weren't. But they all told me the same thing, that she didn't have anything to worry about - and they where right.

3. After she's completed the conditions on her dis-charge and the police refuse to purge this off the computers (why would they to begin with lol) its an EASY lawsuit. She has never been in trouble before.

4. Stop while i am ahead, you are looking worse and worse. lol


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

canuck123 said:


> 1. Read the first sentence of your quote - she doesn't have one. What she has is a dis-charge - big difference! You wasted your time again.


Discharges are criminal records. She doesn't have a conviction, but she does have a record. Or so says these nice folk here:

Understanding Criminal Records



canuck123 said:


> 3. After she's completed the conditions on her dis-charge and the police refuse to purge this off the computers (why would they to begin with lol) its an EASY lawsuit. She has never been in trouble before.


Lawsuits are never easy. Doesn't matter how open and shut the case seems to be... it's never easy. 

But in any case, there are some instructions in the above for getting a record that should have purged cleared and dealt with.


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## canuck123 (Jun 30, 2009)

You prove my point  It is on her record, but not a conviction. Pay attention lol.

And to add, the conviction goes away or is 'purged' after 3 years of conviction, not "5 years after the first 3 years...: lol idiot:

_if the discharge is conditional, no record may be disclosed after three years. _

When/if a police station refuses (or has refused someone in the past) to not purge a persons record - I will claim defeat - otherwise - I win again. :clap:


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## jlcinc (Dec 13, 2002)

canuck123 said:


> you MITE have a hard time getting into the US. Anything else is no problem. You will never be banned from traveling there unless you are caught trying to do a terrorist act obviously. I talked to probably 15 lawyers when we where going to vegas last year and they all told me the same thing. Unless you have a drugs or weapons criminal record charge, you will have no problem at all. What she got was a conditional discharge - listen up. You need to do your homework before posting 'warnings' to people traveling to the US. You mite get off by doing so, but not everyone is an idiot


Why does anyone even respond to this guy. He doesn't appreciate the help and he "mite" not be that bright.

John


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

jlcinc said:


> Why does anyone even respond to this guy. He doesn't appreciate the help and he "mite" not be that bright.
> 
> John


Exactly. He's got it all figured out already. He just needs some help to craft a good lie to help his girlfriend cover up her criminal record so she can misrepresent herself to potential employers where she may some day be handling YOUR business..

lol! Kewl!


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

Macfury said:


> Exactly. He's got it all figured out already. He just needs some help to craft a good lie to help his girlfriend cover up her criminal record so she can misrepresent herself to potential employers where she may some day be handling YOUR business..
> 
> lol! Kewl!


He sure needs help. His own ideas, such as the phony speeding ticket line, are unbelievably lame. A "speeding ticket" could be checked in about 30 seconds.... And then the gf is caught in yet another lie. One has to learn to own one's own history and accept the consequences. Anything less will doom any hope of success. Don't underestimate the stress of simply carrying a lie around in your head. I'm not sure I'd want EITHER of these geniuses handling my business.


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

I've added all the emphasis.



canuck123 said:


> 1. Read the first sentence of your quote - she doesn't have one. What she has is a dis-charge - big difference! You wasted your time again.


Here is the first sentence of simon's quote:


> If you have any *criminal record*, no matter how minor or how long ago the offense, you may be refused a visa or entry to the United States.





Sonal said:


> Discharges are *criminal records*. She doesn't have a conviction, but she does have a record. Or so says these nice folk here:





canuck123 said:


> You prove my point  *It is on her record*, but not a conviction. Pay attention lol.


'nuff said.

I'm not so much trying to help this guy as I am trying to support simon for all his efforts in trying to offer assistance. Thank you simon--you are one of the reasons why asking questions on ehMac is so often helpful and useful. :clap::clap::clap:


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

sonal said:


> i'm not so much trying to help this guy as i am trying to support simon for all his efforts in trying to offer assistance. Thank you simon--you are one of the reasons why asking questions on ehmac is so often helpful and useful. :clap::clap::clap:


+1


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

The OP does need to open his eyes and see where he is headed. 

About the only employment opportunities available to chronic liars are as; MPs, MLAs and Tele-marketers.


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

,


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

^^Forgot about roofers^^


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## simon (Nov 2, 2002)

First I would like to thank Sonal and the rest of the ehMac members who stood for me with this yahoo ... I really don't like being called an idiot by a fool.

so just for rebuttal ... 



canuck123 said:


> 1. Read the first sentence of your quote - she doesn't have one. What she has is a dis-charge - big difference! You wasted your time again.
> 
> 2. I didn't pay for the time of 15 lawyers lol - I simply looked them up in the yellow pages and called the. Some where nice - some weren't. But they all told me the same thing, that she didn't have anything to worry about - and they where right.
> 
> ...


1. Your girlfriend has a criminal record and she will have one forever, she was found guilty in a court of law and punishment was rendered - SHE HAS A CRIMINAL RECORD! A conditional discharge only dictates what happens to that record - she behaves and does her "time" the record is expunged from certain people from seeing that it exists - IT'S STILL THERE - FOREVER!!

2. I still call you liar on that - no lawyer usually will give willy-nilly advise (especially wrong advise) over the phone to a stranger who calls them out of the blue. Yes, you can get free advise from a lawyer but usually in their office. And none would expose themselves to a lawsuit (especially to a dweeb like you who thinks you can just sue somebody at anytime) 

3. Please read - I mean READ my posts. Never did I say that the police department keeps your girlfriend's criminal record on file. I said that there is NO LAW that REQUIRES the POLICE DEPARTMENT that ARRESTED your girlfriend from removing the RECORDS of her ARREST and CHARGES LAID - not her conviction, not her court case and not her conditions of discharge. This is a separate thing altogether.

4. You are not ahead, you or your girlfriend are going to lose - the only person on this thread that looks like an idiot is you and I will LOL when it comes back and bites you in the ass. I guess your age to be .. what ? ... 18, 19 max - because your attitude suits that age bracket. You think you know everything and you although you have been given sound advice with links to the applicable agencies (RCMP, US Consulate, John Howard Society) you poo-poo it off and call your advisers idiots. 

Unfortunately to some of us that have to deal with you in real life, we will be find ourselves in the presence of a true idiot.


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## IllusionX (Mar 10, 2009)

To respond to OP's first post....

no insurance companies, or banks will hire her. The thing is, they usually ask if you have or have had a criminal record. and you have to sign that you attest that you never had or they will have lawsuits against you.

by the way, i did not read the "understanding criminal records" posted earlier. But don't criminal records stay FOREVER?


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

It's unfortunate that she's traveled to the US during the time the record was in the CPIC database. US Customs has full access to the database and will have checked it; copied it to their system, and it will stay there forever. US Customs and Immigration are well known to keep all records indefinitely. 

A criminal conviction is not an automatic bar from entry into the US; that's why they allowed her to travel; it's discretionary on the Customs Officer's part unless the offense was very serious.

For example, I've never heard of anyone being refused because they have a conviction for impaired driving in Canada.

However, they will use their records to ask questions to determine how truthful you may be. Lying is grounds for being refused admission.

The only offenses that automatically bar you from entry to the US where you might receive a discharge in Canada are some drug offenses. The US takes the drug thing very, very seriously.

Somewhat more serious, any drug offenses (serious or otherwise) are automatic bars from granting US citizenship unless you qualify as someone who must always be granted citizenship. If she ever wants to become a US citizen, it would really, really help if she was Cuban.

The only way to overcome that particular barrier is to have an exemption passed before Congress with unanimous approval. The unanimous approval issue is not that big a deal ... if a member vouches for you and gets a seconder, they usually all go along. The big deal is getting a Congressman to take up your case.

Similarly, only Police agencies and other agencies of the Crown are required to purge the record. The exception is the local police force (the one that laid the charge); they can keep all records of any kind of dealing with a person forever, and they usually do. They are barred, however, from giving that information to another Police Agency or anyone else (normally) once a record is purged. They can, however, use it internally to any extent they desire.

The Bank having access to the record is another problem. As stated earlier, only Police and Crown agencies are required to purge the record. That particular Bank can keep it forever. She should probably assume the employer who brought the charges would keep a record in her personnel file.

A final problem may be with Insurance firms. Insurance Investigators have full access to the CPIC database. If there was an insurance agency involved in her particular circumstances (even if it was her employer's agency) or with the investigation, they will have access to the record prior to it's purging, and if so, may have kept copies. Again, they are not required to purge their own records and could conceivably keep that information as long as they like.

It is true that a criminal record is forever; a purged record is sealed, and stored separately, but never destroyed.** Under some circumstances that record can be unsealed, returned to the accessible records storage area, and become part of CPIC again, or be entered into court, although the circumstances are fairly strict for that to happen.

To say that a discharge results in "no criminal record" is functionally accurate, as once the record is purged it is not accessible through normal channels, but strictly speaking not accurate.

There will always be some information, such as the fact she has had something involving the courts on such and such a date, on CPIC that an officer could assume with high probability was an offense that resulted in a discharge; but he won't know exactly what was involved.

For example, if you are charged and found not guilty, that will be in CPIC. In other words, even if you are found innocent, there will be a Criminal Record created. There is a CPIC entry for "charged but not convicted". The Criminal Record encompasses all your dealings with the Justice System.

When they look up the record of someone who was discharged and purged, it won't say there was an acquittal, and it won't say what you were charged with. It does not take much for an officer to make an educated guess as to what happened there. Again, he can use that to determine your truthfulness at a later date when making inquiries.

** "Never" being somewhat relative; I believe the relevant acts allow for the destruction of your Criminal Record, including purged records securely stored, once you reach 100 years of age and have managed to stay out of trouble for a few decades. Some people might be around to see that day.


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## sharonmac09 (Apr 10, 2009)

MazterCBlazter said:


> Used car salesmen, televangelists, lawyers... many of whom become politicians.
> 
> A criminal record seems to be a requirement to work as a roofer though.


Hey! MCB!!!! I own a construction company and roofing happens to be part of it. I do not have a criminal record of any sort and neither does my hubby. We have 5 employees of which only one has a record and he is only a labourer. One employee is a student in college and his gf is a student at UNB. I do realize that roofers get a bad rap but you have to realize that many if not most construction companies take pride in hiring bondable employees.


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

Very interesting thread. I wanted to post sympathetically to the OP but man, has he ever exhausted his good will. I will say this - I never hold a single conviction against any potential employee. We have *all* done things we are not proud of. I once read that 90% of adult males have committed an indictable offense in their lifetime.

Habitual crime is another matter but a single mistake, I think, should not be held against anyone. I also believe our justice system is unfair at times. Often the difference between a guilty or not guilty verdict is the thickness of your wallet.


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

MazterCBlazter said:


> OJ Simpson?
> 
> People getting off scott free for murders and heinous crimes in Canada.


I'm thinking more of the massive white collar crimes that go unpunished. Canada is one of the most negligent countries in the world when it comes to securities fraud. Until recently, the largest institutional investors in Canada, Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan, woudn't invest in Canadian stocks due to the rampant fraud.

Canada's securities law is too lax


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

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## canuck123 (Jun 30, 2009)

Just to give an update on the situation.

My girlfriend had a successfull interview. She didnt get asked weather or not she had a criminal record. It wasnt even asked on the application. Mind you this is an insurance job paying $21.00 per hour. 

We are both really suprised. She starts this monday coming up where she goes to school (at the building, and gets paid) for 3 weeks - then starts actually working, she will need to pass the final test with a 75% score though.

Thanks everyone for their hlep, sorry if some of you where offended when I corrected you. Some people are still not cut out to give advice, so please make sure to be careful when asking for help.


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

Glad things worked out for your girlfriend. Personally, the only time I've ever had a criminal records check was when I became a library volunteer, so I am not _that_ surprised that it was not asked.



canuck123 said:


> Thanks everyone for their hlep, sorry if some of you where offended when I corrected you. Some people are still not cut out to give advice, so please make sure to be careful when asking for help.


You know, any time you ask questions of a random group of people on the internet, you are going to get a lot of answers, some good, some bad. You always need to exercise your own judgment in what advice you choose to take, and it's best to do a little independent research of whatever you hear.

But at the same time, there's no need to be rude when someone takes the trouble to respond. You can just say 'thanks' and politely ignore it.


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


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## simon (Nov 2, 2002)

canuck123 said:


> Thanks everyone for their hlep, sorry if some of you where offended when I corrected you. Some people are still not cut out to give advice, so please make sure to be careful when asking for help.


I was offended because you were an ass - all we tried to do was provide some basic assistance and you were rude and offensive because you didn't like the truth of the answers that were given. 

But in your statement above you are still an ignorant ass - if you knew all the answers why did you ask for help? Some people are just not cut out to ask questions ...


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## canuck123 (Jun 30, 2009)

I just found it pathetic (again, sorry) you tell someone never goto the US again, on a cleared conditional discharge, and if they do, they will be permantently banned lol. Be careful.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)




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## simon (Nov 2, 2002)

canuck123 said:


> I just found it pathetic (again, sorry) you tell someone never goto the US again, on a cleared conditional discharge, and if they do, they will be permantently banned lol. Be careful.


Canuck123, I think we are done here ... you have twisted the advise given you and I doubt you even read any of the links provided. You picked and chose what you wanted to listen to, so I will leave you to your own demise.


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