# Tamil Protests



## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

It's interesting that we saw Tamil protests in Canada (globeandmail.com: Tamil protest surprises Toronto) and the UK (BBC NEWS | UK | Tamil protesters take to streets) on the same day. In both cases the protesters were waving the flag of the Tamil Tigers, a known terrorist organisation.

While it's ordinarily hard to argue with anyone asking for a ceasefire, Gwynne Dyer has an interesting perspective:


> Every time the "Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam" were granted a cease-fire in the past, they used the breathing space to rearm, and then relaunched their struggle for independence.


source: Gwynne Dyer: A cease-fire in Sri Lanka will cause more bloodshed in the long term


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## Manatus (May 11, 2009)

We (Ottawa) had major protests from them a few weeks back, that lasted well over a week. There was much flag-waving and shouting via megaphone. Not judging their views, but I think they lost a lot of support from non-Tamil local Canadians because of the disruption (stopping traffic, messing up public spaces, causing many restaurants, Tim Horton's etc to close down their washrooms) and the fact that they chose to use the Tamil Tiger flags. In fact their spokesman apologized for blocking streets and for using the flag, so it is very surprising that they still used the flag in Toronto and blocked the Gardiner. To be fair, I walked among them one day to walk downtown, and they all seemed very polite to non-Tamils and much less threatening than the OC Transpo bus strike we had over Christmas.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

Manatus said:


> We (Ottawa) had major protests from them a few weeks back, that lasted well over a week. There was much flag-waving and shouting via megaphone. Not judging their views, but I think they lost a lot of support from non-Tamil local Canadians because of the disruption (stopping traffic, messing up public spaces, causing many restaurants, Tim Horton's etc to close down their washrooms) and the fact that they chose to use the Tamil Tiger flags. In fact their spokesman apologized for blocking streets and for using the flag, so it is very surprising that they still used the flag in Toronto and blocked the Gardiner.


Being disruptive and making a mess seldom helps advance your cause.


Manatus said:


> To be fair, I walked among them one day to walk downtown, and they all seemed very polite to non-Tamils and much less threatening than the OC Transpo bus strike we had over Christmas.


It's quite possible that many of these folks don't know what the Tigers are all about, but would like to see an end to the problems in their homeland. Useful idiot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## ciaochiao (Apr 21, 2005)

*Flag*

I would have to agree with all the comments posted to date. I also want to say however, that I know that the word Tamil denotes an 'ethnic' group and not all Tamils are Terrorists. Are all Tigers Terrorists? I honestly don't know. We live in TO and they clogged up several major arteries causing several traffic jams and very, very upset people because it was MOTHER'S DAY. My own son was over 2 hours late coming to pick me up. The same day, Meagan's Walk, which has gone on for the past 8 years in honor of a little girl with brain tumors who died, is to raise funds for Sick kids and Brain Tumor research. Their massive walk did not noticeably clog up any streets, or arteries. And no, it's not because it's for 'research' because i'm a former science researcher and I have many, many words about how funding is mis-directed. However, as both previous posters have noted, it is difficult to gain support when disruption rather than education is perceived by the outsider.
Ciaochiao


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

But then again, the Government has to be entirely consistent, and if they allowed trade unions to close down cities during their "Days Of Protest", they have to allow known terrorists to organize their race riots as well.

Of course, it was entirely out of control, that is the result of allowing "refugees" into the country that are here to collect money for their terrorist cousins at home. Meanwhile, we disallow real refugees into this country, you know, the kind that are routinely killed in their home countries just for existing.

Besides, these people are obviously stupid - and I mean stupid - since they are protesting in front of Queens' Park, which has nothing to do with foreign relations or anything. Maybe these losers should dial into some clues, get some buses, and protest, hmmm, where would someone in this country go to protest against the Federal Government. I'm sure I've seen pictures of the place somewhere...


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

EvanPitts said:


> But then again, the Government has to be entirely consistent, and if they allowed trade unions to close down cities during their "Days Of Protest", they have to allow known terrorists to organize their race riots as well.
> 
> Of course, it was entirely out of control, that is the result of allowing "refugees" into the country that are here to collect money for their terrorist cousins at home. Meanwhile, we disallow real refugees into this country, you know, the kind that are routinely killed in their home countries just for existing.
> 
> Besides, these people are obviously stupid - and I mean stupid - since they are protesting in front of Queens' Park, which has nothing to do with foreign relations or anything. Maybe these losers should dial into some clues, get some buses, and protest, hmmm, where would someone in this country go to protest against the Federal Government. I'm sure I've seen pictures of the place somewhere...


:clap:
Hey I am glad you said it and not me, because i would be called offensive and rude..
We should not allow, these Terrorists to disrupt business in Toronto or any where in Canada - like the way they are.. it is costing thousands of dollars in resources, to send in police and the cost on the environment from the excess traffic/pollution - not to mention money loss to businesses being disrupted..

they are listed as Terrorists - by the federal government, so last time i checked, i thought we do not negotiate with terrorists? have the rules changed?

I will be sure never to vote for Liberals & NDP.. because they are encouraging them, by showing up, to these demonstrations.


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## Manatus (May 11, 2009)

EvanPitts said:


> Maybe these losers should dial into some clues, get some buses, and protest, hmmm, where would someone in this country go to protest against the Federal Government. I'm sure I've seen pictures of the place somewhere...


Nooooo not again!

Although I must admit it was kind of funny when they did it last time, all camped out on Parliament Hill but no politicians to be seen because they were on Easter break.

My concern though is that if any group with a legitimate issue to raise is allowed to inconvenience others to get their point across, we're in it pretty deep. I mean, let's see... Tibet (pro and anti), First Nations, protests against Palestinian terrorists and Israeli occupiers, China's human rights, Thailand's monks, kidnappings in Colombia, Zimbabwe, starvation/disease in Africa in general, the war (any war), environmentalism, and of course the economy and government's reactions to it re: bailouts etc. My problem with the Tamil protest is not so much their cause, it's that they're saying indirectly that all of these other causes and probably hundreds more are either a) not as important or b) should be able to take the same actions as well. 

Our nation's capital (and most other cities I imagine) simply could not function if all of these groups decided to rotate and have protests year-round.


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

Manatus said:


> Although I must admit it was kind of funny when they did it last time, all camped out on Parliament Hill but no politicians to be seen because they were on Easter break.


Just as I said about investing in clues! I wouldn't hold a protest two weeks either side of a holiday - Parliamentarians will just not be there. Same with the months before and after an election, or the months of June to September and December to January... Doesn't leave much left, but maybe if they had a combo protest, like linking up with Farm protests or whatever - they'd have more people on the four days that Parliamentarians are actually there.

But Queens' Park - my God, McGuilty can't even say something intelligent about Basillie trying to buy an NHL team, and they expect him to find Sri Lanka on a map?



> My problem with the Tamil protest is not so much their cause, it's that they're saying indirectly that all of these other causes and probably hundreds more are either a) not as important or b) should be able to take the same actions as well.


It's all about ways and means. Canada is clearly a haven for the Tamil Tigers, and our Government has done nothing to prevent their activities, even though we are on the record as being opposed to their forms of terrorism.

I don't think that one can "regulate" protest. McGuilty seems to think that a protest should be restricted to the lawn of Queens Park, and only if they have a permit. Protesting is a way for a society of venting. In fact, in places like Korea, protests are regularly scheduled and organised by the government just to serve that task. In this country, we have a tradition of allowing marches and protests, but we take a dim view at protests that get out of control. This is one protest that is out of control.

Part of the stupidity is that the protesters have not made a case for their protest. It's not like TIbet, lets say, where the Chinese clearly invaded and removed the administration, and then engaged in fifty years of ethnic cleansing - that we can understand. But the Tamil "problem" is a little more curious, since Sri Lanka was not "invaded", nor were Tamils "subjected" to overlordship; rather, it was an attempt to bring about a single official language...

And that is the core of the "problem", th the Government can not come to an official policy that they can hold to because of the consequences. If we suppress the Tamils and their cause, then we are saying that Sri Lanka has the right to impose Jim Crow style laws which impose a single language - then we undo our own stance on official bilingualism and policies of maintaining heritage languages; but if we choose to support the cause of the Tamils in order to not be hypocrites with our own policies, then we choose to harbour terrorists that have been censured by most other countries, and as a result, we would have to reinstate the FLQ and their right to a terror compaign because the issue is language.

So it is not an easy situation, but I think the real motive behind this is to stage a final stand, as the Tamil rebels have pretty much been shoved into the ocean, and their whole campaign may disappear within days. Of course, the protest has not worked for the Tamil Tigers at all - public opinion has changed, from that of ignorance and a vague feeling that we should support the cause just like we supported the liberation of many other peoples, to that if slightly less ignorance tainted by the inconvenience of having packs of Tamils attack cars on the Gardiner Expressway and getting yelled at by a boss because of excessive tardiness because of this. I think they did the wrong move simply because of the unintended consequences.

Just like the "Days Of Protest", which nominally were to show solidarity among the workers, but fizzled because many workers ended up with an unpaid day off when business simply shut on those days that a city was targetted. Workers were even targetted in "retribution", the company I worked for at the time laid-off the workers for three days because of the protest here - just to reinforce the message that the company was a garbage dump to work for. It just serves as an example of how protests can entirely fail, just as this Tamil protest is failing, simply because any sympathy (or apathy) that they could count on has evaporated - and now it's about "kicking them out" or "deportations" or "send them to jail".



> Our nation's capital (and most other cities I imagine) simply could not function if all of these groups decided to rotate and have protests year-round.


If they turned over the funding and organization of their protests to the Goverment - protests would soon come to a screeching halt...


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

macintosh doctor said:


> Hey I am glad you said it and not me, because i would be called offensive and rude..


To the Politically Correct crowd, everything is offensive and rude...



> We should not allow, these Terrorists to disrupt business in Toronto or any where in Canada - like the way they are.. it is costing thousands of dollars in resources, to send in police and the cost on the environment from the excess traffic/pollution - not to mention money loss to businesses being disrupted..


Terrorism aside, I do support protest as a way of sending a clear message. Unfortunately, most of the messgae this group is sending is just setting Canadians against them. These jokers are no laughing matter. Their "fighters" are more likely to strap themselves to a child, so that when they are shot, it is an "atrocity". They fight the dirtiest campaigns possible, and the more collateral damage they can cause, the better it is in their own mind. As a group, they are more inclined to perform acts of suicide bombing that any other terrorist group in existence. These things just bring upon them shame and disgust, so that any potential for sympathy and support just dries up.

The community itself is infused with simplistic ideals and notions, and as pretty much every family has members that are Tigers, it is pretty easy to motivate them by various means. It is nothing more than a sad example of what happens when idle youth are exposed to corrosive ideals coupled with a lack of any real opportunity. In their endless cycle of warfare, they have brought their nation to ruin, and in their desparate last moments abandon any notion of revolutionary zeal to the primal impulses of violence and evil.

It is a group so indoctrinated that they are inclined to believe that life is cheap, and that somehow, they can find the means to fight a war of extermination until they gain their core goals of living in their own segregationist society.

It is too bad that logic and understanding didn't prevail, for it is nothing more than Jim Crow being imposed that started it, when the Tamils were consigned to being a second grade people. Instead of struggling for truth and justice, they sought their freedom not only by force of arms, but by instilling the impuses of violence into their youth, to cheapen their lives for the Cause. This had the unintended consquence of solidifying Jim Crow, and allowed the government of Sri Lanka to justify their own various crimes. It was not that simple, for the Tigers, on a number of occassions, signed peace agreements and cease fires, with the only intent of purchasing time to regroup and rearm to start the cycle of violence once again.

Sri Lanka is a rich land with many advantages, and could provide a good standard of living for all of it's citizens, but until the citizens are empowered by knowledge and understanding, and all traces of Jim Crow segregation are eliminated, the status will certainly have no chance of changing course.



> they are listed as Terrorists - by the federal government, so last time i checked, i thought we do not negotiate with terrorists? have the rules changed?


We negotiate with terrorists all the time - they are even an official Opposition party within our own Parliament, as well as the official Opposition party in Quebec.



> I will be sure never to vote for Liberals & NDP.. because they are encouraging them, by showing up, to these demonstrations.


That is kind of foolish - since clearly the Tigers have an agenda that has nothing to do with Liberals or NDP, but rather, wish to ensure that they will continue in their war of extermination until their Cause has been fulfilled. Plus, the just are not very smart, seeing that their headquarters was just up from a beach, and was wiped off the map along with many of their fighters, in the Tsunami a few years back. Most crazies choose to build their headquarters up on some hill or in some mountains, just in case of such a thing...


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

EvanPitts said:


> To the Politically Correct crowd, everything is offensive and rude...


Amen, preach it brother!
:clap::clap::clap:


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

All well and good, but as I've said before: in certain instances there's a political correctness in dising the politically correct. Tyranny comes in many forms.


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## broken_g3 (Jun 27, 2008)

Remind me, everyone, what the Tamil protesters hope to accomplish by blocking highways in a country that is :

a) Half a world away from the conflict and 
b) Has absolutely no diplomatic influence whatsoever over the two beligerants

Do they WANT to lose support? Do they honestly believe that angering everyone by ruining their day is going to garner support? Never mind the fact that they lead children onto a highway to block it- whoever came up with that idea was obviously an idiot.

You want to get something productive done? Go to New York, protest outside the UN. they can actually do something. Or, if you *care sooo much*, go to Sri Lanka and protest there. Pissing people off over in Canada will only cause everyone to harden and lose their sympathy to your cause.


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## Manatus (May 11, 2009)

Part of what gets me is that all Canada has done is open its doors and offer a better home than what they had. Canada or any other country is not some kind of charity whose purpose is to be some kind of foster home so that poor people from other countries can have a better life. It seems to be a kind of slap in the face, that the only reason that they are able to protest here is that firstly they were allowed to live here, and secondly are given the freedom to protest without being hassled by the police (something that they would not have in Sri Lanka). It's things like this that sadly help to perpetuate racism and negative views towards immigrants, because people living here look at what's happening and feel as though the homeless person who they offered a meal and shower to is now threatening to block the front door until someone finds him a house.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Manatus said:


> Part of what gets me is that all Canada has done is open its doors and offer a better home than what they had. Canada or any other country is not some kind of charity whose purpose is to be some kind of foster home so that poor people from other countries can have a better life. It seems to be a kind of slap in the face, that the only reason that they are able to protest here is that firstly they were allowed to live here, and secondly are given the freedom to protest without being hassled by the police (something that they would not have in Sri Lanka). It's things like this that sadly help to perpetuate racism and negative views towards immigrants, because people living here look at what's happening and feel as though the homeless person who they offered a meal and shower to is now threatening to block the front door until someone finds him a house.


Yep, Exactly.

Don't like it there, forget it and move on. Don't bring your baggage with you. Your in Canada now. Start being Canadian, not disrupting Canadians lives. Don't like that?

Move back.


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## broken_g3 (Jun 27, 2008)

SINC said:


> Yep, Exactly.
> 
> Don't like it there, forget it and move on. Don't bring your baggage with you. Your in Canada now. Start being Canadian, not disrupting Canadians lives. Don't like that?
> 
> Move back.


As cruel and harsh as this sounds, I still have to agree.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

_Don't like it - go home?_

Somehow I'm sure the landed gentry, comfortably ensconced in their no longer quite so new digs, offered much the same generous advice to the Irish... the Italians... the Portuguese... the Maltese... the Polish, Romanians, Ukrainians, etc. etc.


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## broken_g3 (Jun 27, 2008)

Max said:


> _Don't like it - go home?_
> 
> Somehow I'm sure the landed gentry, comfortably ensconced in their no longer quite so new digs, offered much the same generous advice to the Irish... the Italians... the Portuguese... the Maltese... the Polish, Romanians, Ukrainians, etc. etc.


Being a Pole myself, I don't ever recall anyone telling our immigrant family to go home. I think if new immigrants are productive and don't make too much of a fuss such advice is rarely dealt.


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

Anyone remember the Vietnam war? Disruptive protests that left a mess and angered the establishment helped end that war.


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## broken_g3 (Jun 27, 2008)

hhk said:


> Anyone remember the Vietnam war? Disruptive protests that left a mess and angered the establishment helped end that war.


hhk... *COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SCENARIO.*

The United States and its allies were active invaders in that war, and were determined to support it and continue at any cost. This war is a *civil war* fought *within a country*. We are not invading, we have no reason to intervene or change course or pull out. This matter has nothing to do with us, and as such we have no right to intervene and sour relations with Sri Lanka.

In fact, this whole thing is probably instrumented by the Tamil Tigers to buy them a ceasefire, and thus some time. The Tigers are *not* freedom fighters, they are *terrorists*. And though the Tamils may be repressed in their homeland, resorting to a vile, manipulative terrorist organization is *not* going to solve anything for them. In fact, Michael Ignatieff's Tamil friend was murdered for _refusing to support the Tigers_. They are human scum and are interested in nothing more than complete power. We should try our best to ignore their mind-manipulating propaganda and just say "You're about to lose the war. Too bad for you".

Sri Lanka's racial problems need to be solved in the UN, *after* the defeat of the terrorist scum. They will never solve any problems. They just create more.


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

broken_g3 said:


> hhk... *COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SCENARIO.*
> 
> The United States and its allies were active invaders in that war, and were determined to support it and continue at any cost. This war is a *civil war* fought *within a country*. We are not invading, we have no reason to intervene or change course or pull out. This matter has nothing to do with us, and as such we have no right to intervene and sour relations with Sri Lanka.
> 
> ...


I get your point but if civil disobedience and protest can be used for positive change then we have to be willing to accept the occasional misguided protest. If we tell the cops to clamp down on the Tamils then who is to say they will not do the same thing at the next Critical Mass ride? I don't think we can pick and choose. Who decides that it's not a valid protest?


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

I'm not in support of the Tamil protest... at all

However, I also don't like some of the comments coming out here and on the internet using this as a platform to justify racism. 

I seem to recall lots of truckers holding up the 401 for a very long time, not letting fellow Canadians drive freely on one of Canada's major highways. I also seem to recall a bunch of farmers driving their tractors in Ottawa holding up traffic around parliament. Should they all go back to where they came from? 

What's 100x worse than political correctness is right wing chest thumping and saber rattling talking about all immigrants, and if you don't like the country, leave etc...


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

broken_g3 said:


> Sri Lanka's racial problems need to be solved in the UN, *after* the defeat of the terrorist scum. They will never solve any problems. They just create more.


I remember reading one of the Auto Biographies of Leonard Woolf a while back. The book was written around the time of (shortly after?) Ceylon won its independence, and Woolf was looking back on his time in the Ceylon civil service and seemed really excited that the people of Ceylon had a promising future ahead of them in an independent state.

It never really worked out that well. A lot of the things that were taken for granted in the Colonial era, such as rule of law and trains that run on time seem to have been tossed out, and the country seems to have descended into anarchy and civil war.

Not really sure why this is, the same pattern seems to have been repeated in many other former European colonies as well...


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## ciaochiao (Apr 21, 2005)

*Scholarly but*

There are several excellent, scholarly, professorial posts thus far and since i agree with much of what has been said, it is redundant for me to repeat many points. As for being racist however, I don't feel that any significant racial slurs have been flung, with all due respect. As for what one of our posters has succinctly stated, 'don't like it, go home', in this case, I must agree. I do not advocate for the Tamils to all go home. There is a difference between the Tamil people and the Tamil Tigers. One is a terrorist group while the other is a group of people, period. What the Tigers have done in Toronto this past weekend is inexcusable. Using children to shield themselves against legal actions is simply put, wrong. I don't think anyone here is telling the Tamils to go back home. They aren't the people involved in this particular protest. Telling the Tigers to go back and do whatever it is they think they need to do in order to maintain their terrorism on their own people is just. I am not of Euro descent. I am a Canadian and an activist plus advocate for many unjust inequities. Terrorist support and cowardice by using small children as human weapons is not one of them. For anyone who did not personally witness this chaos, they missed miles and miles of police ET units lined up, likely sweating, profusely, not to mention motorists who were caught between the aisles of guns, it was extremely disconcerting. My two children were caught in this mess and as their parent, I stayed on the cell phone, sick to my stomach. My 22 and 12 year olds- more youth held hostage. And although I'm not defending Miller, Blair, or McGuinty, which 'leader' would like to order their forces to initiate any physical actions when there are dozens of children and young (17-25) people involved? Furthermore, a major artery leading to several Toronto hospitals was blocked for over 6 hours. This is not acceptable in any country. The issue here is not race, it is the ethics of an obviously very unethical organization. Canada is nothing without its immigrants. This country was, as were many others, built by immigrants, my ancestors included. The tactics employed by the Tigers are simply put, deplorable. For another 150+ intelligent posts regarding this matter, here's a start: 
TheStar.com | GTA | Mayor warns defiant Tamils 
and no, I'm NOT referring to the article itself nor the vanilla comments of Miller or McSquinty. 
CC


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## ciaochiao (Apr 21, 2005)

*Less emotional*

Here's a less emotional response from those 150+ posts.

*Connectivity

One does not cultivate recognition, support and sympathy but impeding the rights and liberties of those you wish to seek empathy from. The message is getting lost and the reverse of the objective is being nurtured. Making the masses angry by "extreme measures", endangering the lives of many does absolutely nothing for their cause. The quote "We don't care what happens to us," seen through recent events is translating in my eyes as "We don't care what happens to you,". Tell me specifically, without the yelling, without the emotional outpour - What do you want me to do? Teach me.

Submitted by G. Reaper at 8:20 AM Tuesday, May 12 2009*

Teach, NOT terrorize. Well said, whomever G. Reaper is.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ehMax said:


> However, I also don't like some of the comments coming out here and on the internet using this as a platform to justify racism.
> 
> What's 100x worse than political correctness is right wing chest thumping and saber rattling talking about all immigrants, and if you don't like the country, leave etc...


Minority groups disrupting major freeways over an issue that can have no cure in Canada being discussed as such is the best this group can hope for as a result of their demonstrations. If they used their collective heads, they woud realize they do more harm than good to their cause by disrupting the lives of fellow Canadians.

Nowhere in this thread have I read anything that I consider even remotely racist and to accuse posters of being racist is folly.

I say again plainly and simply, if one immigrates to this country, leave the disruptive behaviour at home or change tactics. There are accomplishing nothing for their homeland here. And there is zero racism in that statement. Simply put, they can forget what they left, or work quietly through legitimate means to try and help others in their home country. And if that doesn't work, they should consider going back to their home country to work at the issue first hand.

Current demonstration tactics are unacceptable and unnecessary in Canada.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

SINC said:


> Yep, Exactly.
> 
> Don't like it there, forget it and move on. Don't bring your baggage with you. Your in Canada now. Start being Canadian, not disrupting Canadians lives. Don't like that?
> 
> Move back.


I'm sure the Irish heard that line a long time ago. Funny how history repeats itself.


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

hhk said:


> Anyone remember the Vietnam war? Disruptive protests that left a mess and angered the establishment helped end that war.


There is a core difference, and that is with the Cause. The Hawks tried to present a view that somehow, the war would be the deliverance for the Vietnamese and that salvation would involve napalming villages and engaging in endless massacres and rape. That they chose to support a sequential number of corrupt figures, like Diem, but that changed on a yearly basis, showed that the only Cause the Hawks could come up with was the Truman Doctrine, a Cause that was entirely weakened by a lack of political goals or military achievements.

Protesters, on the other hand, had a powerful Cause in the form on Truth. They called the Hawks out, seeing that the war was nothing more than a disasterous bloodbath that would accomlish little or nothing at great cost. Protests of the era were not only "Anti-War", but mixed in with Civil Rights and Woman's Rights.

This protest, on the other hand, has a weak Cause, and is attracting nothing that could add to whatever they are protesting over. If the Tamils expected these protests to bring sympathy to their Cause, they have ended up with the exact opposite...


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"Protesters, on the other hand, had a powerful Cause in the form on Truth. They called the Hawks out, seeing that the war was nothing more than a disasterous bloodbath that would accomlish little or nothing at great cost. Protests of the era were not only "Anti-War", but mixed in with Civil Rights and Woman's Rights." Very true, EP. As one who marched in the early days of the protests against the War in Vietnam, I recall that it was not until the mass marches of 1967 and 68 came about that LBJ decided not to run again, and there was a swing towards an anti-war mood in the US. 

Sadly, the fiasco in Chicago in 1968 helped to bring about Richard Nixon into the presidency.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

ehMax said:


> I'm not in support of the Tamil protest... at all
> 
> However, I also don't like some of the comments coming out here and on the internet using this as a platform to justify racism.
> 
> ...


Hmmm, a rolling blockade by farmers and truckers to protest national or regional issues is a lot different than taking your children onto the Gardiner Expressway to be used as human shields so the police are helpless in removing you and all the while waving flags of a recognized terrorist group. 

Waving the Tamil Tiger flag is an insult to Canada which granted them the refugee status to be here in the first place. During WWI and WWII Canadians took up arms and went to fight in Europe, perhaps those who so strongly support the Tigers should go back and continue the fight.


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## ciaochiao (Apr 21, 2005)

*Lest we forget*

What EP states is not conjecture but fact. In addition to Diem, I would like people to remember that one of the other principal 'corrupt' players was Johnson. His friends made millions of dollars from the VN war. 

Simply put, there is no excuse for what the Tigers are doing. It is blackmail, terrorism, cowardice, illegal, etc. etc. etc. 

I would like to once again state that nomenclature is important. As with the current health crisis, H1N1, it is not the 'swine flu'. Now let's just transpose that: Tamils are not all terrorists. Tigers are terrorists.

Requesting that terrorists find their own funding and backup does not constitute racism.
CC


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## ciaochiao (Apr 21, 2005)

*And we SUPPORT THEM!*



kps said:


> Hmmm, a rolling blockade by farmers and truckers to protest national or regional issues is a lot different than taking your children onto the Gardiner Expressway to be used as human shields so the police are helpless in removing you and all the while waving flags of a recognized terrorist group.
> 
> Waving the Tamil Tiger flag is an insult to Canada which granted them the refugee status to be here in the first place. During WWI and WWII Canadians took up arms and went to fight in Europe, perhaps those who so strongly support the Tigers should go back and continue the fight.


:clap::clap::clap: And of course, should the Tigers do the correct thing and go back to continue the fight, we as Canadians, WHOLLY SUPPORT THEM!


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## broken_g3 (Jun 27, 2008)

ehMax said:


> I seem to recall lots of truckers holding up the 401 for a very long time, not letting fellow Canadians drive freely on one of Canada's major highways. I also seem to recall a bunch of farmers driving their tractors in Ottawa holding up traffic around parliament. Should they all go back to where they came from?


Yes.


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## broken_g3 (Jun 27, 2008)

PenguinBoy said:


> I remember reading one of the Auto Biographies of Leonard Woolf a while back. The book was written around the time of (shortly after?) Ceylon won its independence, and Woolf was looking back on his time in the Ceylon civil service and seemed really excited that the people of Ceylon had a promising future ahead of them in an independent state.
> 
> It never really worked out that well. A lot of the things that were taken for granted in the Colonial era, such as rule of law and trains that run on time seem to have been tossed out, and the country seems to have descended into anarchy and civil war.
> 
> Not really sure why this is, the same pattern seems to have been repeated in many other former European colonies as well...


Which is also why I don't blindly decry colonialism as a racist endeavour solely to gain power. Russian Imperial colonialism over my native Poland was an example of totalitarian rule that had to be tossed out. But the British in Ceylon? What about the British in Palestine? Both those places were relatively peaceful before they left...


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## ciaochiao (Apr 21, 2005)

*First laugh!*



broken_g3 said:


> Yes.


:clap::clap::clap::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:!!! EXCELLENT BROKEN!! Thank you for the first, one word response that has truly made me laugh from the heart!:clap::clap::clap:


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## sharonmac09 (Apr 10, 2009)

This is TO, the most multi-cultural city in Canada and in perhaps North America. I'm proud of it and you should be also.

That being said, no protesting group (terrorist affiliated or not) has the right to put other people's lives in danger by blocking the Gardiner. It is insane. If it was a Euro group protesting there, would they have been ordered off, physically if necessary? They most definitely would be. Being politically correct at all costs is a huge pain in the butt.


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## ciaochiao (Apr 21, 2005)

*No, Buttt*



sharonmac09 said:


> This is TO, the most multi-cultural city in Canada and in perhaps North America. I'm proud of it and you should be also.
> 
> That being said, no protesting group (terrorist affiliated or not) has the right to put other people's lives in danger by blocking the Gardiner. It is insane. If it was a Euro group protesting there, would they have been ordered off, physically if necessary? They most definitely would be. Being politically correct at all costs is a huge pain in the butt.


No, not a Euro group BUT a 1st Nation's group??? Hmmmm, anyone remember Dudley George?? No armed 'natives'. Lots of armed idiots, especially Mike Harris.

The positive thing about this entire fecal mess is that now the tumor named 'MILLER' may be excised. To allow their protests to block University Ave. for 4 days? This is the reason why I did not, will not, cannot ever support David Miller. That guy no one remembers running, would have been a better choice for Mayor. Jayne Pittfield would have been a better choice for Mayor. Bozo the clown....you get the idea.
CC


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## sharonmac09 (Apr 10, 2009)

ciaochiao said:


> No, not a Euro group BUT a 1st Nation's group??? Hmmmm, anyone remember Dudley George?? No armed 'natives'. Lots of armed idiots, especially Mike Harris.
> 
> The positive thing about this entire fecal mess is that now the tumor named 'MILLER' may be excised. To allow their protests to block University Ave. for 4 days? This is the reason why I did not, will not, cannot ever support David Miller. That guy no one remembers running, would have been a better choice for Mayor. Jayne Pittfield would have been a better choice for Mayor. Bozo the clown....you get the idea.
> CC


Are you saying that Miller is a wuss? As you know, I no longer live in TO and in Ontario, I'm not current on TO's affairs.


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## ciaochiao (Apr 21, 2005)

*Well...*

Well, let's say; IT'S NOT MILLER TIME!! I've never liked him although we supposedly hold the 'same' political leanings. He has been the most ineffective thing I've seen since moving to Toronto. I realize that people laughed at Mel Lastman but I don't think Lastman would have stood for recent events. After all, he did call out the military for the 'big snowstorm' of 1994/5 (something like that). i had just moved to Toronto from REGINA and could not believe what he'd done. But perhaps he would have removed the Tigers using our military as well? I don't support many of the things Lastman installed during his term. But i support virtually nothing Miller has done during his TERMS including extending the length of the term in office for elected officials.
CC


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

broken_g3 said:


> Being a Pole myself, I don't ever recall anyone telling our immigrant family to go home. I think if new immigrants are productive and don't make too much of a fuss such advice is rarely dealt.


Lots of Polish blood here, too... however, such sentiments as I've mentioned are relatively rarely directed to someone's face. They tend to be delivered in private, among 'one's own kind.' I think it's a very old tendency and it's still with us.

That noted, I agree with you that productive people are generally welcome in our society. The trouble lies in achieving a consensus on what "too much of a fuss" actually means.


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## Funkynassau (Apr 13, 2008)

I hear they are planning another protest today at the legislature bldg. in Toronto. I dont have a problem with that per se. If they stay on the grass and sidewalks and off the roads, then fine. When they block traffic, that is not fine.

They should have been removed from their protest on the Gardiner Expwy. How dare they block ordinary citizens from driving their vehicles on a public road? What if an ambulance or fire truck had to get thru? What if someone died as a result of them blocking the road?

When people protest and inconvenience the average guy who doesnt have anything to do with them, they make people mad. Then they get no respect and all they are is a pain in the butt and then the average guy doesnt give a damn about what they want. I know I'd have no patience with them and would be really mad that they have blocked me from going about my day. Stuff like this makes me glad I live in the country, tho I am from Toronto originally.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

Funky Nassau, agreed.

These protesters are certainly drawing attention to what's happening in Sri Lanka - but even more so perhaps, they are drawing attention to how disruptive a major road blockage can be in a large city. They keep up this strategy of disruption at all costs, they will generate more hostility than empathy, much less goodwill.


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

broken_g3 said:


> Being a Pole myself, I don't ever recall anyone telling our immigrant family to go home. I think if new immigrants are productive and don't make too much of a fuss such advice is rarely dealt.


That aside - Canada has long had a procilivity to have an attitude of "if you don't like it, go home". Racial and ethnic relations were long strained in this country, though resorting to outright riots is much more rare because of the genteel culture that Canadians tend to.

However, we did have official policies that were distictly Jim Crow-ish, like the various "Covenants" that prohibited all sorts of people from living where ever, only repealed by federal statues passed in 1944, or of an official parochial policy towards Quebec that lead to the Quiet Revolution. In some ways, we still live with such things, Jim Crow by other means, where Notwithstanding is used to remove rights and dignities from all kinds of people, like racist policies that prohibit "ethnic" signs in Quebec, or removing the right to have a religious education in various provinces.

We also hold a perverted view of the First Nations, using various cliches and stereotypes to keep them from obtaining that which was guaranteed to them by treaty, and in the case of Quebec, where they are subject to cultural genocide because of Notwithstanding.

To say Canada is somehow "better" than Sri Lanka is absolute bunk. These policies that somehow are acceptable to Canadians in our own country - where heritage language education and learning in one of the official languages is verboten to one quarter of our population, and where religious beliefs and faith are regularly attacked by politicians l;ooking to cash in on the intolerance ticket; somehow we can call out the Tamils for fighting the fight that we long ago gave up on.

What happened in Sri Lanka is a tragedy, where the Majority decided to impose their world view upon a Minority - by declaring a single language policy where Tamils would become second class citizens. We allow the same thing in this country, where the minority English speakers in Quebec became second class citizens with little or no rights. And that is our tragedy. The only correct course is to have freedom and liberty, where Tamils and Sinhalese alike have equal opportunity in a nation where everyone could reap the benefits of the wealth of the land. Instead, it all came down to hatred where things have become so polarized and entrenched, it has destroyed the nation, and no one even knows what their Cause is.

It's a last ditch effort, as the Tigers have something less than a square mile left under their control, and will soon be shoved into the ocean. They pledge to carry on the fight, through the weapons of attrocity, murder and terrorism - without a Cause or a Reason - in a war of extermination that will only end when the People stand up for their own fundamental rights, and not only overthrow the terror of the Tigers, but to overthrow the intolerance and hatred dished out by the Elite who triggered this mess with their Jim Crow policies in the first place.

As for their protests here - they have clearly made a bad case for themselves. Sure, they raised awareness, but now, people are inclined to bring about law and order simply because the Tigers have been branded terrorists - rather than bringing forth the Truth, the real facts that the Tigers and their avid supporters lost contact with decades ago. Besides, protesting in Toronto will only accomplish the rath of Torontonians - rather than any real political awareness in Ottawa, which is more fixated on their stupid inquests and inquiries that will go nowhere.


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## rustamanyana (Sep 22, 2008)

"In a desperate situation, what would you do"

A quote from a spokesman for Canada's Tamil community.

that quote and others sound like a veiled threat.

i worry that they are only a small distance from escalating their civil disobedience to other forms of disobedience.

The toronto police have done a great job of keeping any factions that are interested in doing this in check. I hope that the Tamil community and the police can continue to keep the protests peaceful.


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

SINC said:


> Minority groups disrupting major freeways over an issue that can have no cure in Canada being discussed as such is the best this group can hope for as a result of their demonstrations.


Of course, they are doing it in front of Queens' Park, where it is even more ineffectual since McGuilty has no powers to do anything - foreign affairs and the UN are Federal responsibilities. Let's call it what it was when they spilled onto the Gardiner, a massive race riot where they decided to pitch a battle agains the People of this nation, a People that provided an open door to freedom and dignity in a new land. All it does is to kick dirt back into the face of the People - and Canadians take a very dim view on such behaviours, with the sole exception of when it happens after the Habs with the Cup...



> Simply put, they can forget what they left, or work quietly through legitimate means to try and help others in their home country. And if that doesn't work, they should consider going back to their home country to work at the issue first hand.


I don't know if that was ever historically correct - people never "forgot" what happened. I don't think people can erase the religious or political persecutions that drove most people to this land in the first place. What would this country be if we had deported the French simply because they lost a battle, or if we had deported the Scots because they fought for their freedoms by taking control of most business and politics in this country in order to ensure those fundamental freedoms and rights promulgated by Kames and Hume, or if we deported the Irish because there were Fenians, or Germans because of the Kaiser, or the Italians because of the Fascists or the Mafia, etc...

Perhaps the problem is that we haven't had these "problems" in some time, so we have forgotten what it was like to live in a tumult. Perhaps the Tamils played the wrong cards and have attracted the wrong kind of attention - but they have exercised their fundamental freedoms that have been long expressed in our nation, and have did so without our Nation resorting to anything but the rule of Law. There is no attrocities, no butchery, no deportations - so even if they do disrupt things, this is the crowning example of a Civilization dedicated to the precepts of freedoms and liberty.

As for people saying "oh, they are flying a terrorist flag" - that is yet another example of the strengths of the truth and freedom that we have in this Nation - that no matter what flag is waved around, our Nation is greater than that, that we can tolerate such things without it being a threat to our Nation, and without the need to resort to attrocities, or perversion, or witch hunts, in order to somehow stem a peculiar ideology. That is our strength, that mere symbols are meaningless when it comes to those things that are core to our freedoms.

Not to say that we should "protect terrorists", that is part of the rule of Law - but a flag, it's nonsense to think it is of paramount importance and needs some kind of ineffectual ban.


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## ciaochiao (Apr 21, 2005)

*Respected and agreed however;*

As my title states EP, I respect and agree with the majority of your statements. Not wanting to be compared to Pilate but candidly, 'What is Truth?' Regardless, education should be, the pathway to truth. This incident however, is not going to bring about truth. As another poster stated, what are terrorists to some are freedom fighters to others. The information highway can be multi-laned and flowing freely or bottle-necked which scientifically speaking, cause speciation. I am not from that country and therefore, have no understand of events. I have a fair amount of interaction however, with another country that has gone through a very detailed revolution and only now, are information highways under construction. For the past 50 years however, they have been virtually non-existent: China.
CC


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

ciaochiao said:


> ...terrorists to some are freedom fighters to others.


The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive:
Terrorists are defined by the methods they use.
Freedom Fighters are defined by the cause they are fighting for.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

SINC said:


> Minority groups disrupting major freeways over an issue that can have no cure in Canada being discussed as such is the best this group can hope for as a result of their demonstrations. If they used their collective heads, they woud realize they do more harm than good to their cause by disrupting the lives of fellow Canadians.
> 
> Nowhere in this thread have I read anything that I consider even remotely racist and to accuse posters of being racist is folly.
> 
> ...



Two things...

1. Everyone is talking about the Tamils protest and this issue is front in centre in Canada because of walking on the highway for several hours. 

2. Where was the uproar to go "Back to where you came from" when Anglo-saxon truck drives repeatedly blocked the 401 in protest, or when Anglo-saxon farmers drove their tractors in Ottawa?


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## ciaochiao (Apr 21, 2005)

*Just as expected*

The Tigers are once again, creating issues in DT Toronto. They're only blocking off 5 hospital routes including Sick Kids.


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## hhk (May 31, 2006)

EvanPitts said:


> There is a core difference, and that is with the Cause. The Hawks tried to present a view that somehow, the war would be the deliverance for the Vietnamese and that salvation would involve napalming villages and engaging in endless massacres and rape. That they chose to support a sequential number of corrupt figures, like Diem, but that changed on a yearly basis, showed that the only Cause the Hawks could come up with was the Truman Doctrine, a Cause that was entirely weakened by a lack of political goals or military achievements.
> 
> Protesters, on the other hand, had a powerful Cause in the form on Truth. They called the Hawks out, seeing that the war was nothing more than a disasterous bloodbath that would accomlish little or nothing at great cost. Protests of the era were not only "Anti-War", but mixed in with Civil Rights and Woman's Rights.
> 
> This protest, on the other hand, has a weak Cause, and is attracting nothing that could add to whatever they are protesting over. If the Tamils expected these protests to bring sympathy to their Cause, they have ended up with the exact opposite...


You are judging a historical event against a current one. If you were around in 1968, you would probably be yelling at the hippies to get a haircut. When the Vietnam War protests started, the *vast* majority of Americans were for the war and bought the whole Domino theory that was espoused by the Johnson administration.

You call the Tamil protest a weak one but how do you really know? Were you on the ground as an observer? Who's propaganda is correct.

We cannot make these judgements. We can express opinions and allow the protesters to express theirs. It's called democracy.


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## sharonmac09 (Apr 10, 2009)

ehMax said:


> Two things...
> 
> 1. Everyone is talking about the Tamils protest and this issue is front in centre in Canada because of walking on the highway for several hours.
> 
> 2. Where was the uproar to go "Back to where you came from" when Anglo-saxon truck drives repeatedly blocked the 401 in protest, or when Anglo-saxon farmers drove their tractors in Ottawa?


ehMac, I have no intention of disrespecting you but don't you realize it is the Tamil Tigers' supporters that's creating this dangerous and life-threatening mess of accessibility to essential services in TO? The law abiding Tamil-Canadians with no affiliation to Tigers are not part of this.

This mess is nothing in comparison to the examples you provided above. Non of us including the highly esteem ehMac member Sinc provided any racial slurs and there aren't any between the lines either.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

hhk said:


> We can express opinions and allow the protesters to express theirs. It's called democracy.


Agreed - but *not* when the protest blocks routes to hospitals, etc. Freedom of speech and expression doesn't imply the freedom to block access to essential services.

Also, there's a fair amount of evidence that the Tigers are a terrorist group - we're past the "whose propaganda do you believe" on this. I doubt many of the protesters are terrorists - but I'll bet there are a fair number of "useful idiots" in the crowd...


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## ciaochiao (Apr 21, 2005)

*Let's be inclusive!*



PenguinBoy said:


> Agreed - but *not* when the protest blocks routes to hospitals, etc. Freedom of speech and expression doesn't imply the freedom to block access to essential services.
> 
> Also, there's a fair amount of evidence that the Tigers are a terrorist group - we're past the "whose propaganda do you believe" on this. I doubt many of the protesters are terrorists - but I'll bet there are a fair number of "useful idiots" in the crowd...


Oh come now, let's be INCLUSIVE! Why limit the idiots to that crowd? Again, no permit, no arrests, no anything except ETs units once again lining Toronto's downtown streets, during rush hour traffic. 

As for 'were you on the ground'? Uh, YES. Was it effective? HKK, it depends upon what you define as effective.

As for the farmers, truckers, et all, hmmm, i don't recall them hooking up children in strollers or the elderly to their grills while blocking the 401. As broken_ said succinctly, should they have been told to go home? YES. Were they? Yes.

CC


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

ehMax said:


> Two things...
> 
> 1. Everyone is talking about the Tamils protest and this issue is front in centre in Canada because of walking on the highway for several hours.
> 
> 2. Where was the uproar to go "Back to where you came from" when Anglo-saxon truck drives repeatedly blocked the 401 in protest, or when Anglo-saxon farmers drove their tractors in Ottawa?


First of all not all of those truckers were "Anglo-Saxon" and second, they didn't use their children as human shields or putting them in harms way by walking on a freeway. Your example is so flawed it's not funny.

And there was plenty of uproar over the rolling blockade, but at least the truckers kept their convoy moving and kept to one lane.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

ciaochiao said:


> Oh come now, let's be INCLUSIVE! Why limit the idiots to that crowd?


Just in case there was any confusion, this is what I mean by "useful idiot":


> In political jargon, the term useful idiot was used to describe Soviet sympathizers in western countries and the attitude of the Soviet government towards them. The implication was that though the person in question naïvely thought themselves an ally of the Soviets or other Communists, they were actually held in contempt by them, and being cynically used.
> The term is now used more broadly to describe someone who is perceived to be manipulated by a political movement, terrorist group, hostile government, or business, whether or not the group is Communist in nature.


source: Useful idiot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You're right - they are by no means limited to this crowd, but there seems to be a high concentration of them among the protesters...


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

PenguinBoy, please clarify: do you mean to say that, in your estimation, this board is stacked with idiots?


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

Max said:


> PenguinBoy, please clarify: do you mean to say that, in your estimation, this board is stacked with idiots?


No Max, just "useful" ones...


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## sharonmac09 (Apr 10, 2009)

PenguinBoy said:


> Just in case there was any confusion, this is what I mean by "useful idiot":
> 
> source: Useful idiot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> You're right - they are by no means limited to this crowd, but there seems to be a high concentration of them here...


Useful idiots to swell the crowds-what an apt description. Of course the zealots are unable to operate without their disposable puppets who bring their children as shields. I consider this tactic as despicable and because of this their cause doesn't inspire any sympathy from me.


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## ciaochiao (Apr 21, 2005)

kps said:


> No Max, just "useful" ones...


:lmao::lmao:

Thanks for the official definition. And I would have to agree with what has already been said. They are by no means limited to the walking, sitting crowd.

I think that the media needs to stop all coverage as it appears to flush out the 'useful idiots'. Instead, the media should focus on Miller, Blair, and McG. The other 'uselful idiots'. Train their cameras on them instead. Unfortunately, everyone loves drama. They are still walking with children in strollers. 
CC


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## RKM (Jun 23, 2005)

At the risk of being slammed I am going to say how I feel.

I for one am sick and tired of people immigrating to this country and causing disruptions to our lives with crap like this. If you are so damned concerned move back! I always thought the idea of immigrating to a new country was to get a fresh start and a better quality of live, not to degrade the quality of those already living there with nonsense like this.


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## broken_g3 (Jun 27, 2008)

ciaochiao said:


> :lmao::lmao:
> I think that the media needs to stop all coverage as it appears to flush out the 'useful idiots'. Instead, the media should focus on Miller, Blair, and McG. The other 'uselful idiots'.
> CC


But they aren't _useful_. They're just idiots.


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## ciaochiao (Apr 21, 2005)

*Rkm*



RKM said:


> At the risk of being slammed I am going to say how I feel.
> 
> I for one am sick and tired of people immigrating to this country and causing disruptions to our lives with crap like this. If you are so damned concerned move back! I always thought the idea of immigrating to a new country was to get a fresh start and a better quality of live, not to degrade the quality of those already living there with nonsense like this.


RKM, you and countless other people are in agreement. Further to this, the Tigers are the terrorist wing of the Tamil people. The Tigers have been pushed into a position whereby they may finally lose their war. I would therefore agree that The Tiger supporters who are concerned most certainly, should return and assist in fighting for their movement. 

The media needs to give zero coverage. This will not only lower the blood pressures of many but subtract any publicity which shall further encourage 'useful idiots'. 

CC


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

Hey, thanks for the larf, kps - with a topic like this one, genuine humour is rather thin on the ground - but I was waiting for PenguinBoy to answer the question himself. No matter though - it was mostly a rhetorical question on my part.

It's an easy enough thing to do, here and in countless other realms of discussion - on the net, on the radio, on the street, around the water cooler; those who disagree with one's viewpoint can simply be relegated to idiocy - useful or otherwise - or they're simply denounced as disruptive knaves who ought to go back from whence they came. Neat and tidy categorizations, no? Lots of emotion swirling about and it effortlessly trumps thought.

My sense of what's been unfolding in Toronto these past few days is that the ferocity of the Tamil demonstrations is disturbing - but the wave of hostility it's generating is even more disturbing. It speaks volumes about just how thin the veneer of civilization truly is.

Though I believe the Tamil community here will badly damage its own reputation should it insist on continuing these divisive tactics, I am actually more concerned about the fragility of the peace between communities in this one large nest of many communities. Cities can only work well if there's a modicum of goodwill among the many disparate components of the citizenry. If we should lose that, all sorts of hell is possible.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

Max said:


> PenguinBoy, please clarify: do you mean to say that, in your estimation, this board is stacked with idiots?


No - I meant the Tamil Tiger sympathizers likely had a high percentage of "useful idiots".

When I re-read my post I could see how the confusion could arise - sorry about that.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

LOL

We posted within moments of one another! Well, thanks for the clarification, PB. Have a good one - I'm outta here until tomorrow morning. Something tells me this thread will still be burning up the pixels.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

ciaochiao said:


> The Tigers have been pushed into a position whereby they may finally lose their war.


Which is *exactly* why they want a ceasefire - to allow time to regroup and rearm. On the surface, it's hard to argue with "give peace a chance" - but it doesn't make sense in this case.

The fact that these demonstrations broke out simultaneously in Canada, the UK and the US suggests that an organized, international group - like the Tigers - was behind them.


ciaochiao said:


> The media needs to give zero coverage.


And the government should not change their position in response to these demonstrations.


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## sharonmac09 (Apr 10, 2009)

ciaochiao said:


> :lmao::lmao:
> 
> Thanks for the official definition. And I would have to agree with what has already been said. They are by no means limited to the walking, sitting crowd.
> 
> ...


:lmao::lmao: Good one CC. These other useful idiots must also be lackeys-to whom I wonder? Unfortunately, there are alot of 'idiots' serving on councils all across the country.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ehMax said:


> Two things...
> 
> 1. Everyone is talking about the Tamils protest and this issue is front in centre in Canada because of walking on the highway for several hours.
> 
> 2. Where was the uproar to go "Back to where you came from" when Anglo-saxon truck drives repeatedly blocked the 401 in protest, or when Anglo-saxon farmers drove their tractors in Ottawa?


With all due respect ehMax, I have to wonder why you are singling me out to appear racist with your comments? 

I repeat to you that I have no racist feelings in this at all. 

The fact of the matter is you cannot even remotely compare the Gardiner shutdown with Anglo-saxon truck drives repeatedly blocked the 401 in protest, or when Anglo-saxon farmers drove their tractors in Ottawa. Neither group endangered ordinary Canadians with their actions as pointed out by kps here by blocking only single lanes, NOT a major expressway.

42 years of experience in the field give me the advantage in analyzing the difference and I stand by my statements.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

PenguinBoy said:


> The fact that these demonstrations broke out simultaneously in Canada, the UK and the US suggests that an organized, international group - like the Tigers - was behind them.


So the fact that the steeply escalated level of violence in Sri Lanka has nothing to do with it? People with Sri Lankan roots, spread across various countries around the world, can't simply be horrified at what's going on there?

I don't discount the presence of would-be manipulators acting with their own ulterior motives, for their own gain. But I also believe it's a mistake to simply paint the situation as mastermind ringleaders making the useful idiots dance to their tune.

In the immediate wake of 911, demonstrations broke out around the world in the name of peace in the face of a wide-spread, sharply heightened sense of fear and insecurity. Were _all_ those attendees also poor dupes being made to perform?


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

ciaochiao said:


> I think that the media needs to stop all coverage as it appears to flush out the 'useful idiots'. Instead, the media should focus on Miller, Blair, and McG.


So you are saying that the media should concentrate their coverage on the "useless idiots", like Miller, Blair and McGuilty - rather than on say, the protest, or digging up the real story about this tragedy, ect...


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

SINC said:


> The fact of the matter is you cannot even remotely compare the Gardiner shutdown with Anglo-saxon truck drives repeatedly blocked the 401 in protest, or when Anglo-saxon farmers drove their tractors in Ottawa. Neither group endangered ordinary Canadians with their actions as pointed out by kps here by blocking only single lanes, NOT a major expressway.


I say if the Anglo-Saxons don't like it here - they should go home and stop causing all of the problems. Then we can have our land back! beejacon


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

Max said:


> So the fact that the steeply escalated level of violence in Sri Lanka has nothing to do with it? People with Sri Lankan roots, spread across various countries around the world, can't simply be horrified at what's going on there?


There isn't an "escalated level of violence", what there is, is that the Tigers are all but wiped out and the government forces aren't about to stop now. This outcry is to give them breathing space and a chance to regroup and rearm if a cease fire can be obtained through foreign pressure. Most Tamil expats support the Tigers without too much coercion in any case. 



> I don't discount the presence of would-be manipulators acting with their own ulterior motives, for their own gain. But I also believe it's a mistake to simply paint the situation as mastermind ringleaders making the useful idiots dance to their tune.


I don't think it's that big a mistake. There is plenty of documented history on how the Tigers intimidate and extort money from expatriate communities throughout the Tamil diaspora.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

I admit to not knowing a great deal about the specifics, kps. I've been more comfortable talking about the general effects of the demos here in Toronto.


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## ciaochiao (Apr 21, 2005)

EvanPitts said:


> So you are saying that the media should concentrate their coverage on the "useless idiots", like Miller, Blair and McGuilty - rather than on say, the protest, or digging up the real story about this tragedy, ect...


No EP, i'm not saying that I don't want knowledge. I always want knowledge. What I am doing is following my own mantra. I shall not give credence to methods such as those used in the past week, to blackmail and extort the public. i shall therefore, not discuss the matter because quite frankly, nothing of educational value regarding the politics between the Sri Lankan gov't, Tamil people, and Tigers, has arisen. 

WRT covering Miller, McGuinty, and Blair, my goal here is to educated the public as to how ineffective all three are as leaders, period. Their inability to mediate and cease such a contemptuous issue is merely another symptom of their absolute lack of competence.

As for the 'Anglo-Saxons' going home, hmmm, i think you may be right EP, if they do all 'go home', then Canada's optics will be quite different and the lead article in today's Star shall be in err: TheStar.com | GTA | Darker the skin, less you fit

Incidentally, of far greater interest and import is the fact that Toronto continues to lose almost a youth a week to gun violence. That is important and requires edification. Another 14 year old was shot about three blocks from my home. His school is RIGHT across the street from me and he was shot about 500 yards from the store in which I do most of our grocery shopping. There's no rhyme or reason to it. That to me, requires coverage. it is an issue of gravity concerning the social and moral fabric of our country, Canada.
CC


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

I was so hoping for 80 KM/m winds today and heavy rain as promised but it never happened..
so the protest continues.. 

I think it would make more sense for them to protest in Ottawa or in front of the Sri Lankin Embassy, but they are not very smart; what results will they get protesting in front the US embassy, last i checked Obama is pulling out of Iraq and Afghanistan, really do not think it is his problem to head to Sri Lanka - it seems the government there has the problem under control..

they should move their protest to NYC - outside of UN building - they would get better results.. Give us Torontonian's a well needed rest.


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## RKM (Jun 23, 2005)

Actually they should pack their bags and protest at home not here!


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

RKM said:


> Actually they should pack their bags and protest at home not here!


This is not a slam.

But it is not easy to forget where you came from.
And often, there is no going home.

Had there been no military coup in Burma in the 60s, my father probably never would have left. Why would he? But the fact is, there was a coup, they did round up student protesters and shot them, they did annex people's money and property, they did take a democratic country and turned it into a military dictatorship, and that everyone who had the ability to leave, left. Not the necessarily the desire to leave, just the ability. He wasn't even allowed back as a tourist for 40 years.

So whether he liked it or not, there was no going home. 

There has been civil war in Sri Lanka for over 2 decades. There is no going home. Protesting at home will likely mean death or disappearance. The Sri Lankan government started this conflict with laws and policies that discriminated against the Tamil minority, but since then, there have been serious human rights violations by both sides. 

Most of the Sri Lankan diaspora is here in the GTA. It makes sense that there would be protests here in an attempt to bring awareness to the problems in Sri Lanka. 

Now, you might not agree with their methods (and in fact, I think they have made some errors in how to get the message heard without annoying the people they are trying to gain support from) but "just go home" is a very simplistic response. Go home to where you are likely to be killed, kidnapped or tortured? I don't think so.

I might be personally peeved that I couldn't use the highway to go home Sunday night after working late at the office which added a few minutes to my drive, or that Queen Street was completely blocked off while I was walking to the Four Seasons' Centre last night so I had to take a different route, but to me, suggesting that the people who caused go to a warzone is unreasonable.


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## broken_g3 (Jun 27, 2008)

ciaochiao said:


> The Tigers are once again, creating issues in DT Toronto. They're only blocking off 5 hospital routes including Sick Kids.


A perfect example of how Canada is a free and open country. Were this a dictatorship, we would have a machine gun turret taking care of obtrusive protests very quickly.

Which is exactly why the Tigers should be kissing the Canadian flag and be thankful that they are here, and not somewhere like China.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

Good post Sonal!

While I am sympathetic to the plight of refugees, and agree with what you are saying for the most part, I don't like the fact that these folks are showing support for the "Tamil Tigers" who are a known terrorist organization.

I like to think the majority of these folks are simply naive - hence my "useful idiot" comments.

It's possible that some of them are aware of the Tigers and their methods but still support them, perhaps thinking "the ends justify the means". This scares me - I don't like the idea of Canadians supporting a terrorist organization.


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## ciaochiao (Apr 21, 2005)

*yes but no*



Sonal said:


> This is not a slam.
> 
> But it is not easy to forget where you came from.
> And often, there is no going home.
> ...


I understand what you are saying Sonal. My father literally escaped from China. His sister, mother, and father were beaten consistently due to his actions. I know there is no real 'going home' for them-the Tamil people, at this moment. I am sorry that is the way with any country going through political unrest. I dare NOT ask the 1st nations people if there is a GOING HOME. That is not another story. It is the story of occupation. It is unfortunate and extremely tragic. It is however, war. 

It is not a mere inconvenience that was caused. I was not 'put out' because mother's day dinner was late. I was put out because my 22 and 12 year olds were very, very scared with the row upon row of police ET squads, riot shields. etc. while they were trying to meet me for dinner. There is nothing, in my opinion, to justify this on a traditional, North American observatory day. 

I have responded to your post because I have respected your opinions in the past and continue to understand your compassion. Most of us have experienced a history of tragedy via our ancestors. There is no 'going home' for many 'ANGLO SAXONS' from areas of Ireland either. Many of our gay community members cannot return to their countries either for fear of death. This is why I have supported Canada's liberal immigration policies. This recent act however, by a recent group of New Canadians to Canada has made many, including me, question the criterion of both immigration, citizenship, and so-called, democratic rights. I still respect your opinions and feel very heavily for you and your father. It was however, a very, very different situation with India having been literally tormented for well over a century and several other human atrocities carried out on the people of India. Yet we have a very strong and progressive community of 1st to 10th (or more) generation people from India and Pakistan. I have never, ever seen a flagrant display of aggravation to the degree witnessed on May10. This is, in fact, likely the reason that more people are interested and respectful towards the people in India and Pakistan. The more important thing is that non-Indian and Pakistani Canadians are far more knowledgeable about the conflicts that have torn through those countries.

Now returning true to my word, I shall not pay tribute to the recent event. I have not seen many non-Euro-related answers: yours was one of the first and only. I wanted to respect your thoughts and hope that you will consider mine.
CC


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

Sonal said:


> This is not a slam.
> 
> But it is not easy to forget where you came from.
> And often, there is no going home.
> ...



Listen - we left our home land if you can call it that... they took our house, our money and everything held dear.. - with what we had left - we came to Canada...
since then our home land is been Canada..(34 years and counting) I am so happy that we live here, that i got married to a Canadian ( Canadian born Lebanese ) and had children here.. ( even though i am European ) LOL

so when NATO bombed my fromer Country for 4 to 5 months day and night.. I was the only one who said.. finally the Communist Cronies are getting what they deserve... even though it took 34 years. LOL

so The Tamil Terrorists that did make it to Canada they should be happy, they should be kissing the land they walk on.. otherwise go back to Sri Lanka and fight the cause over there... We are not interested in sending our young Canadians to die for something that is under control at the moment by the local government.. It is none of our business.

Why hold our City hostage? if you want to make a difference go to Ottawa or NYC / UN buildings and request time to speak to the appropriate people in power, the citizens of Toronto are powerless and frustrated already.


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

I find it interesting, that globalisation has created a pattern of population exchange through immigration that is so broad, that we find ourselves watching a civil war become active in a country on the other side of the planet. 

I am making absolutely no value judgement, but immigration in such scale as we see today, literally imports the problems of the world and if those immigrants come from conflict zones, the social problems that they left for in the first place. 

Extremely interesting.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

Smok'n something Adrian? This has nothing to do with globalization or the international movement of skilled workers. These are refugees from a long and bitter civil war trying to get support for a terrorist group that's about to be annihilated by a government which isn't much better.


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

kps said:


> Smok'n something Adrian? This has nothing to do with globalization or the international movement of skilled workers. These are refugees from a long and bitter civil war trying to get support for a terrorist group that's about to be annihilated by a government which isn't much better.


Why does globalisation not involve refugees? Globalisation in many way encompasses refugee migration and the causes that force these refugees. Globalisation is simply the rapid movement of people, information, capitalism, culture and money around the world. It does not discriminate between skilled workers immigrating to work and refugees.

I fail to see how you make globalisation and refugee migration mutually exclusive processes.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

Because I see this as the "olive tree" backlashing agaist the "Lexus".


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## sharonmac09 (Apr 10, 2009)

Most of you guys really don't get it. It has nothing to do with immigration or globalization. It has everything to do with the manner of the demonstration. This demonstration is extremely counter productive and doesn't achieve anything other than creating dangerous situations for the non-participants. Geez.


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

Not all 200,000 GTA Tamils support the LTTE-organized protests.

I found these posts from another forum:


> There have been many Tamils that have worked hard via peaceful and dipliomatic means to try and get a "seperate homeland" or whatever they want. Those people have been vilified by the Tamil media and killed for not supporting the revolution.
> 
> I worked with a Tamil guy and his family came here to escape the fighting. The problem is that they are constantly harrassed by Tamil Tiger supporters to "donate" to Tigers. Their businesses are boycotted by the Tamil community, and they are unwelcome at Tamil community events. Obviously not all Tamils support this attitude but they one in control of the Tamil organizations do and active encourage this attitude.
> 
> ...





> I know a few Tamil people and from what they tell me less than 10% of the population of Tamils in Toronto support the LTTE or these protests. They're just embarrassed by this. The interesting thing is they completely deny they are Tamil because they are afraid of the LTTE finding out that they are Tamil. Apparently if they find out that you're Tamil you need to donate or face consequences. (Relatives back home being kidnapped or crap like that).





> Look at the footage of the highway occupation. Not only was the crowd (using teenagers and children as their front line) brandishing LTTE flags, and wearing LTTE shirts, the common chant was “LTTE Freedom Fighters”.
> 
> So let’s see they’re waving the flag of an internationally recognized Terrorist group, wearing shirts with the logo of an internationally recognized Terrorist group, holding signs of the leader of an internationally recognized Terrorist group and yet they shouldn’t be called terrorist sympathizers?
> 
> ...


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

Protest by Tamil Terrorist (LTTE). What does it mean to Canada? | Asian Tribune



Asian Tribune said:


> Protest by Tamil Terrorist (LTTE). What does it mean to Canada?
> 
> Created 2009-05-03 03:06
> By Lenin Benedict from Toronto Asian Tribune
> ...


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

sharonmac09 said:


> Most of you guys really don't get it. It has nothing to do with immigration or globalization. It has everything to do with the manner of the demonstration. This demonstration is extremely counter productive and doesn't achieve anything other than creating dangerous situations for the non-participants. Geez.


There are two issues here:

1) The manner of the demonstration doesn't advance their cause.

2) Part of their cause - supporting a terrorist group - is reprehensible.


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

PenguinBoy said:


> There are two issues here:
> 
> 1) The manner of the demonstration doesn't advance their cause.
> 
> 2) Part of their cause - supporting a terrorist group - is reprehensible.


Terrorist group living under a terrorist regime. Hard to say who to support when both sides are reprehensible. 

I haven't made up my mind on issue #2 yet, and I likely never will. As I posted before, there are severe atrocities on both sides. When a minority group is being killed, tortured and kidnapped with the approval (implicit or otherwise) of their government, it is not hard to see why the response would be to fight fire with fire. (That's not approval for the methods--just observation.)

I find it hard to point to the Tigers and call them a terrorist group without acknowledging where they came from or why they came to be.


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

Sonal said:


> Terrorist group living under a terrorist regime. Hard to say who to support when both sides are reprehensible.
> 
> I haven't made up my mind on issue #2 yet, and I likely never will. As I posted before, there are severe atrocities on both sides. When a minority group is being killed, tortured and kidnapped with the approval (implicit or otherwise) of their government, it is not hard to see why the response would be to fight fire with fire. (That's not approval for the methods--just observation.)
> 
> I find it hard to point to the Tigers and call them a terrorist group without acknowledging where they came from or why they came to be.



Let me help you with an opinion.. they came to Canada.. - now they are holding Toronto hostage.. hope that helps


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

Sonal said:


> I find it hard to point to the Tigers and call them a terrorist group without acknowledging where they came from or why they came to be.


Maybe it is as simple as just knowing that they are terrorists because they use terrorist style methods - like tying a child to themselves so that when they are shot, it's an "attrocity", or perhaps it is because of their addiction to car and truck bombs (apparently, they use that tactic more than the Al Aqsa Martyr's Brigade). Buying weapons from North Korea, Iran and other dubious regimes may also be reasons.

Knowing where they came from - who cares? We all know where the IRA came from - they were Irish looking for freedom, but turned into terrorists when they used violence to keep their own people in line, and engaged in the same kinds of car bombings and murder sprees, as well as the links to Qaddafi and other suppliers of terrorists.

Perhaps at one time, the Tigers had a Cause worthy of fighting for; but what happened is that they just collapsed. At one time, they de facto controlled a fair amount of the north east, and had on a number of occassions, negotiated cease fire agreements that lasted until they had rearmed and started the attacks. The biggest problem of course, was that they built their HQ near the coast (every other terror group tends to hide in mountains, bad lands, you know, places that are hard to get to) - and that HQ got wiped out in the tsunami, along with many of their fighters.

It's simply a last stand, though they have the inclination to continue fighting on, this time in a real war of terror...


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

Agreed 100% EP.

Terrorists are defined by the methods they use, and even if their cause might have some merit, their actions are reprehensible.


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

PenguinBoy said:


> Agreed 100% EP.
> 
> Terrorists are defined by the methods they use, and even if their cause might have some merit, their actions are reprehensible.


Well it's not that I disagree that they are terrorists. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that I have a problem dismissing them entirely because what has been done to them is equally reprehensible. 

Do I think the Tigers are in the right? No.
Do I think their government is in the right? Also no.

I suppose what it comes down to is that I don't know who is worse.


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

Sonal said:


> Do I think the Tigers are in the right? No.
> Do I think their government is in the right? Also no.


TIGERS ARE WRONG - NO QUESTIONS..

Their government is right, as long as they are in power.
the tigers had a choice, next election vote for a new one.. just like we did/do...
as for them coming here, they should not bring baggage with them; it is not fair for the rest of us to suffer....

you do not see me protesting do you? 
Dalton raised taxes.. so the next election - i will not vote for him ( not like did the first time. ), in hopes we get another government... simple process, i did not go to the USA and protest on the front lawns of NYC capitol demanding they tell Dalton to stop his wrong doing.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

Sonal said:


> Well it's not that I disagree that they are terrorists. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that I have a problem dismissing them entirely because what has been done to them is equally reprehensible.


So do the ends justify the means? Was it OK for the US to use waterboarding on some of the terrorists behind the 911 attacks? What happened at the World Trade Center was reprehensible, so why not fight fire with fire...


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

The news reported Sri Lankan government forces are within 48 hrs of annihilating the Tigers. Many civilians are still trapped but thousands have escaped.

Tamil protesters on University Ave in Toronto attempted to break through the installed barricades about an hour ago, but were driven back by Toronto police in riot gear and on horseback.

Should be all over in a couple of days.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

In political affairs, very little is truly over in just a few days. Whatever's going down, it's going to have implications lasting longer than that.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

Max said:


> In political affairs, very little is truly over in just a few days. Whatever's going down, it's going to have implications lasting longer than that.


I meant the protests here in TO.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

kps said:


> I meant the protests here in TO.


Yeah, I know what you meant... but what I said in my last post still holds true in the COTU, too. The demonstrators won't soon forget what went down. The people enraged by the demonstrators won't soon forget either. Bad blood has a way of sticking around.


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

macintosh doctor said:


> TIGERS ARE WRONG - NO QUESTIONS..
> 
> *Their government is right, as long as they are in power.*
> the tigers had a choice, next election vote for a new one.. just like we did/do...
> ...


My god man. Move to DC with Cheney and the boys. 

If you knew a bloody thing about Sri Lanka, you would know that the Tamils have attempted democratic avenues in the Sri Lankan parliament for 15 years. It didn't work.

I am at a loss for words at how stupid that comment is. Are you actually comparing the strife of civilians being bombed, systematically segregated and killed to you paying higher taxes?


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

Max said:


> Yeah, I know what you meant... but what I said in my last post still holds true in the COTU, too. The demonstrators won't soon forget what went down. The people enraged by the demonstrators won't soon forget either. Bad blood has a way of sticking around.


Gotcha Max. I think they drove a lot of sympathizers away and perhaps made a few people really look at the issue and who, for the most part, is behind it all.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

On that we agree, kps.


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

Adrian. said:


> If you knew a bloody thing about Sri Lanka, you would know that the Tamils have attempted democratic avenues in the Sri Lankan parliament for 15 years. It didn't work.


So it didn't work.. so come to Canada to cause problems for us? that makes a lot of sense.
any how Good News is in sight..

The Sri Lankian Army / Navy has them cornered and this weekend may be the final strike against the tamil terrorists.. finally. Maybe then Toronto will be back to normal...

with the usually demonstrations: like the unions saying they are under paid.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Adrian. said:


> My god man. Move to DC with Cheney and the boys.
> 
> If you knew a bloody thing about Sri Lanka, you would know that the Tamils have attempted democratic avenues in the Sri Lankan parliament for 15 years. It didn't work.
> 
> I am at a loss for words at how stupid that comment is. Are you actually comparing the strife of civilians being bombed, systematically segregated and killed to you paying higher taxes?


Lemme see now, that's Mexico, Cuba and now Sri Lanka you seem to know about in recent threads. Sometimes a little knowledge is a dangerous thing and leads to forming opinions not necessarily in line with others thinking. I know it doesn't fall in line with my thoughts on the matter.


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

PenguinBoy said:


> So do the ends justify the means? Was it OK for the US to use waterboarding on some of the terrorists behind the 911 attacks? What happened at the World Trade Center was reprehensible, so why not fight fire with fire...


No.

But when the means are reprehensible, I think the question of "What has happened that has been so terrible that things have come to this?" bears asking.


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## PenguinBoy (Aug 16, 2005)

Looks like it might be end game for the Tigers:
globeandmail.com: Sri Lanka seizes coast, tightens noose on Tigers

Hopefully moderate Tamils can come to some sort of arrangement with the Sinhalese. I don't see that happening any time soon, but shutting down the Tigers is a good first step...


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

Sonal said:


> Well it's not that I disagree that they are terrorists. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that I have a problem dismissing them entirely because what has been done to them is equally reprehensible.
> 
> Do I think the Tigers are in the right? No.
> Do I think their government is in the right? Also no.
> ...


Then it comes to the base problem - the Tigers are entirely correct, since what was reprehensible was to have a Government that attempted to overthrow the rule of law, and remove fundamental rights and freedoms by imposing a system of Apartheid. In principle, the Tigers have a solid Cause.

However, years of indoctrination eroded any memory of a Cause, as the Ways and Means became much more important than the Cause. As the situation degenerated, both sides became more entrenched, until the Cause became entirely subverted to the Quest for bloodshed and extermination. Both sides adopted the Ways and Means, as this situation accelerated into a war of extermination.

The Government of the time was wrong because they attempted to impose doctrines of Apartheid and cultural genocide. This could have entirely been avoided if the Government had engaged in policies of enlightenment, tolerance and the rule of law, treating every citizen as an equal, rather than to bow to the desires of Jim Crow and cultural nepotism.

The worst act was the act that imposed apartheid in the first place - because it is from that which is derived the endless cycle of violence and revanche that is the calamity.


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

The violence is spreading here. Tamils are suspected to have set a Buddhist temple on fire in Scarborough.

TheStar.com | Crime | Scarborough fire related to Sri Lankan conflict, monk says


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

If this is true, it is just one more reason to send them back to where they came from. They are not desirable Canadians. They are nothing more than criminals, arsonists and should be deported forthwith.


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

SINC said:


> Lemme see now, that's Mexico, Cuba and now Sri Lanka you seem to know about in recent threads. Sometimes a little knowledge is a dangerous thing and leads to forming opinions not necessarily in line with others thinking. I know it doesn't fall in line with my thoughts on the matter.


SINC this guy exceeds even our differences. You are, as Steve said, a glass of water to a person in hell - right now anyway.

You know that I've lived in Cuba and Mexico for quite sometime, and what I've argued for were against misconceptions.

I've never lived in Sri Lanka, I've been there though about 4 years ago, while I was in Mumbai on business. Nonetheless, I don't need to know a lot about a conflict to know that drawing analogies to paying higher taxes and a conflict that is killing many thousands of civilians is iniquitous, downright bad taste and should be wrapped in pejorative criticism.


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

Adrian. said:


> SINC this guy exceeds even our differences. You are, as Steve said, a glass of water to a person in hell - right now anyway.
> 
> You know that I've lived in Cuba and Mexico for quite sometime, and what I've argued for were against misconceptions.
> 
> I've never lived in Sri Lanka, I've been there though about 4 years ago, while I was in Mumbai on business. Nonetheless, I don't need to know a lot about a conflict to know that drawing analogies to paying higher taxes and a conflict that is killing many thousands of civilians is iniquitous, downright bad taste and should be wrapped in pejorative criticism.


I appreciate you travel a lot so have I - also make a point not to involve myself in foreign politics while there. I do a lot business in other countries as well.

But the matter in question here is not weather these Terrorists are unable to vote in a new government or not ( so it took 15 years - you do not give up.. it also took that long for Jean C to leave Canadian politics too  ).. but rather why are they torturing Torontonians with ridiculous unproven claims on their rude placards - i do not need my 3 year old kids seeing that when i drive the streets of Toronto also ( making minors hold them including putting them in danger by walking on the gardner expressway. Kids should never be brought into a conflict that is for adults only.. but i did not expect more from them) during their hostage of our city.

Therefore they have lost all support before it began.

People live in Canada so they wake up go to work to collect a pay cheque,pay taxes then want to come home to their families without the any delays and live peacefully is that too much to ask for?

Enough is enough.. Toronto is the last place to do it- last i checked Dalton does not have tanks and any power outside of Ontario. 

As I mentioned numerous times that Ottawa or NYC - UN HQ would be the better platform.

the thread is about holding Toronto against our will, not about what is happening a world away in some foreign political drama, if it is about that - then ehMac is the incorrect place or forum.

At this point it is safe to say - that if this was any other group they would have been charged or jailed by now.. I hold the province in contempt for allowing such demonstrations - at this point they are no longer that but disruptions and chaos.

Adrian - Seems to me you also like playing the almighty of every thread, take it down a notch, living in places for 4 year or less and / or traveling does not make you an expert.

Once the Sri Lankan army/Navy is done - they should send them to Pakistan/Afghanistan to solve the Al Quedia problem they are facing.. The Sri Lankian force seems to be pretty organized..


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## broken_g3 (Jun 27, 2008)

EVERYONE:


The war is over. The Tamil Tigers have been vanquished. In a historic move, some of them have offered to lay down their arms. The war is over!

Sri Lankan president announces end of war against rebels_English_Xinhua

Fears of mass suicide as Tamil Tigers face final defeat - Times Online


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

Wow! Just reading the Toronto Star comments, the Tamil community aligned with LTTE don't have much of any sympathy from the public.

TheStar.com | World | Sri Lankan war nears bitter end


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

gmark2000 said:


> Wow! Just reading the Toronto Star comments, the Tamil community aligned with LTTE don't have much of any sympathy from the public.
> 
> TheStar.com | World | Sri Lankan war nears bitter end


After reading those comments in the Star, which they published and did not consider racist, by the way, the comments made in this thread are mild.

Bottom line is Star readers opinions appear to be what I said at the beginning. Immigrate here and leave your baggage behind, or go back to where you came from.


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

macintosh doctor said:


> Adrian - Seems to me you also like playing the almighty of every thread, take it down a notch, living in places for 4 year or less and / or traveling does not make you an expert.


I've spent nearly 20 years of my life in Universities studying international politics and economics.

It is difficult to not sound like the "almighty one" when discussing political issues that are inherently international with laymen.

The first time you encountered me was when you made absolutely ignorant comments concerning Mexico, and I let you know that.

I see no further point of discussion here.

Back to the Tamils.


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## broken_g3 (Jun 27, 2008)

For anyone who ever doubted last night's reports, look at this new one:

Tamil Tigers admit defeat after battle reaches 'bitter end' - Times Online

I believe it is safe to say that the war is officially at an end. For the first time in a quarter-century, the island of Sri Lanka is once again a united country. Let's see if the Tamils and the Sinhalese can figure out how to get along now.

Before I conclude this, I would like to express my disappointment in president Obama. He is attempting to block Sri Lanka's IMF loan and wishes to launch a War Crimes investigation. I beg your pardon? Does Mr. Obama not understand that, in wars, people die? Civilians being killed in a crossfire is hardly grounds for war crimes. Why do we not go after Israe... oh wait, they're America's allies. Anyhow, I no longer like you, Mr. Obama. You are unable to distinguish between genocide and conflict, and I believe that is a very, very undesirable quality.


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## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

Adrian. said:


> I've spent nearly 20 years of my life in Universities studying international politics and economics.
> 
> It is difficult to not sound like the "almighty one" when discussing political issues that are inherently international with laymen.
> 
> ...


Congratulations for spending 20 years of your life in education.. May I call you doctor?

So you consider every one laymen?,Most unfortunate - like I mentioned before if you are a scholar of world conflict do not waste all your education in these forums..

I hope you are hired by the UN as soon as possible, for it would be a waste for you to share your expertise in every thread in ehmac.. I am sure your 20 years have taught you that?

my comments in the Mexico thread were that of a corrupt and clueless regime.

I have several family members that deal with the Cuban and Mexican Governments on a regular basis.. Which gives them more expertise than you would of ever learned in school.

Any how.. look forward to your next expert advise from a far.


as for this thread.. lets hope that the Tamils see the end is upon them, stop these horrible disruptions in Toronto.. Lets pray that they do not harm any more temples.



SINC said:


> Bottom line is Star readers opinions appear to be what I said at the beginning. Immigrate here and leave your baggage behind, or go back to where you came from.


I agree 100 %


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