# I'm a PC Ad airs



## Bilbo (Jul 12, 2001)

Microsoft: Microsoft's "I'm A PC" Ad Beats Seinfeld (But Not Hodgman)

This is a much better ad than the last two, although t doesn't make me want to rush out and buy a PC.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

These ads show a profound lack of comprehension with the "I'm a (computer)" concept.

There is also no indication at all that being a PC makes anything 'better' than being, or using, anything else.

Ubiquity does not equal greatness. It just means that there are a lot of something. You might as well say "I'm a blade of grass." In which case, Macs are four leaf clovers.


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

Yeah, the ad doesn't do anything for me. Deepak Chopra likes PCs? Cool*.

(*Cool = who gives a crap).


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

Wow. Lamest 60 seconds ever produced. A solid minute of "I'm a PC" and not a single thing else.

Go Microsoft!


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

Interesting. The good old bandwagon approach. Not very informative, but it makes you feel like part of a revolution anyway. Also ironic that PC is not an actual brand for anything. It means "personal computer." The Macintosh is also a personal computer. Mac used the term PC in its ads so it can not be accused of slandering any particular company. The Apple ads do not specifically slander Dell, Hewlett-Packard, MicroSoft or any other company, so no one can sue for defamation. So the question is, how will MicroSoft be able to offer any counter-attack ads against the Mac platform without using the word Mac?


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## kb244 (Apr 23, 2002)

So um... use it cuz um... everyone else does?

I seem to notice people tend to go against conformity at times.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

The fact that Microsoft (and their ad agency) think that John Hodgman's character in the Apple ads represents PC *users* rather than the actual *OS* he actually (and quite clearly) represents -- in effect, MS itself -- rather brilliantly shows us two things:

1. MS just does not get it. They appear to think that Apple is telling people that PC users are large guys in brown suits. They also appear to think that their own users need to be reminded that they aren't all unhip cubicle slaves.

2. Even in trying to differentiate themselves from Apple's (clearly effective) advertising, MS is so completely bereft of ideas that they either go off into WTF land (the first two ads) or fall back on the old reliable: ripping off Apple.

I think most consumers -- particularly the computer-savvy ones -- will have noticed that Apple is seen by MS itself as the trendsetter here. This ad crosses the line from "ineffective" to ANTI-effective, ie giving Apple more respect as an equal than it's actually due.


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## spitfire1945 (May 17, 2008)

facepalm.jpg to all 6 of you above me. 

You know what I am? I am a PC, Mac, Linux, and Unix.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

WTF? Speak English?


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## spitfire1945 (May 17, 2008)

fjnmusic said:


> WTF? Speak English?


You need to go on 4chan.org a couple of times


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Speaking of dumb ...

Turns out some of the images in that ad were created on ...


... wait for it ...


"Adobe CS3 Macintosh"


oopsie.


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

I liked those stupid Seinfeld ads more.


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## Fox (Oct 4, 2002)

I thought the ad was pretty good; clearly a reaction to the more clever Mac ads, but still serves to break stereotypes and remind people that PC users come in all shapes and colours.


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## Mac Fellow (Jul 5, 2001)

Yawn. The ads seem like a dull, dated response to Apple's campaign. Might have been more original & effective 3-4 years ago...

I suppose we'll see an ' I'm a Zune ' campaign before long ;-)


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## biovizier (Dec 21, 2005)

Those diving slates don't give you much room so sometimes you have to use abbreviations. I think what scuba girl was trying to say was that she peed in the sea.

In her defence, I would be a little scared too with that shark down there and the scent of MS blood in the water.

Oh, and someone really should tell space dude that headlines were made a few weeks ago when it was revealed that a virus had infected a computer on the international space station, running of course - Windows.

But I agree - the goal is user retention, sort of a feel-good spot to counter the angst that Vista users might be feeling in response to the Vista FUD perpetuated by the "I'm a Mac" ads. (I've never used Vista - maybe it is as bad as they say, but the ads have a FUDish tone).

The other thing is that it does this by implying that the "I'm a Mac" ads are a put-down against Windows users and not against Windows. I would wager that this isn't evidence of MS "not getting it", but rather a very shrewd and deliberate move by the ad agency.

I think the target audience will like the ads.


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## smellybook (Aug 31, 2006)

*I think Microsoft should focus on PC's being inexpensive and familiar,*

that is the reason most people choose a PC over Apple is it not?
That's what all my friends tell me anyway; they all love my 24" imac and drool over all of my Apple gear. My brother in-law loves to play with the Apple TV everytime he comes over, but when it comes down to it they always choose the cheaper non-Apple solution.


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

The next ad will be along the same lines visually - but it will have a different script. Here is an excerpt:

_"I'm a developer, and I live with my parents. I'm a developer and I wear yellow Crocs. I'm a developer and I don't like polyester. I'm a developer and I love carrots. I'm a developer and all my friends are on Facebook. I'm a developer and I think Steve Ballmer rocks. I'm a developer and my surgery was successful. I'm a developer with no inhibitions. I'm a developer who loves scaring my neighbours. I'm a developer and I have five Betamax machines in mint condition. I'm a developer recovering from a failed marriage. I'm a developer who has every Fantastic Four comic ever printed. I'm Steve Ballmer, and developers, developers, developers, developers! I'm a developer and my mom loves the Zune I gave her. I'm a developer and my entire basement is filled with Lego. I'm a developer and a member of the Amateur Elevator Enthusiasts Club of America. I'm a developer and I eat Tuna Helper because it's awesome. I'm a developer with five karaoke competition trophies for first place. I'm a developer and I grok Vista. I'm a developer who has an argyle thong..."_


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

I just want to start by saying I love my Macs and would never go back to a PC.

But lets talk about the marketing communications reality for a moment. The truth is the Apple ads do rely on stereotypes and by inference do suggest a particular type of user of PCs and Macs and also what they are stereotypically used for.

The inference is that Macs are for the young, laid back cool people, who do cool and creative things with their computer and PCs are for stodgy uptight business types. To suggest that the ads are only "personifying" a piece of computer hardware is just plain naive and wrong.

Marketing is not so much about selling a product but about selling a life style and an image of yourself that is associated with the product. In other words if I buy this I will be cool, attractive, smart, sexy, hip, etc. etc. etc. This is the way marketing has worked for generations, at least effective marketing. It is precisely for this reason that the Apple ads are so effective. By associating Macs with a young, hip, cool guy and and PCs with a middle aged, uptight, somewhat loveable but bumbling "Charlie Brown" type, we are definitely encouraged to associate and align ourselves with the Macs and not PCs. Not only are we encouraged to positively associate ourselves with the Mac stereotype, through the genius of the campaign we are actually made to feel sorry for poor old bumbling PC. We do not aspire to be like those we pity, just like Charlie Brown, we can empathize but we certainly do not aspire to be like him.

So with the PC ads putting forward alternative "personifications" of a PC they are countering the stereotype put forward in the Apple ads and effectively saying no, this is what PC users look like and what you can expect your lifestyle and aspirations to be aligned to if you buy a PC. In fact the ads effectively portray the PC as being diverse in lifestyle, gender, profession and culture. They are not saying you can be just like everyone else by being a PC, you can be yourself.

From a marketing and communications perspective they are an effective "counter punch" to the Mac ads. Whether or not that strategy will translate into sales is I believe questionable, because the ads do not refer to a specific brand of PC and only thinly refer to Windows in particular. However, as an ad to counter the personal identification (lifestyle and self image) ads of Apple I think it is quite effective. It is one of their first volleys and it will be interesting to see how the campaign develops.


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## pictor (Jan 29, 2007)

I think these were excellent ads actually. They aren't trying to sell features, right now, an ad going ooh and aah over vista features wouldn't have the penetration they want. These ads are simply defusing stereotypes. Yes John Hodgman represents the OS, but a lot of people will read into the character a statement of users as well. These MS ads are really a good response to the get a mac ads, without looking like they are being defensive, and without using a style that will remind people of the apple ads (except the first couple of seconds).

Well done MS


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

It's a curious ad. Not badly put together, but I don't know what they're trying to achieve. The basic premise appears to be that the Apple crowd has already sufficently marginalized users of "PCs" that they need to buck them up to the point where they're not ashamed to admit it. 

Unfortunately, as pointed out by others, Microsoft is not "a PC" but the Apple ads have obviously pushed them to the point where they need to defend PCs as well as their own diseased OS.


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## cap10subtext (Oct 13, 2005)

Once again Microsoft gets hung up on image an misses a spectacular chance to actually talk about their own product in a way that consumers can relate to.

They've managed to define them selves as anything not a mac. Whoopty doo. Whoever Microsoft has hired to advertise for them is missing out on the bigger picture. You think they've even considered the fact that Windows runs on a mac?


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

screature said:


> The inference is that Macs are for the young, laid back cool people, who do cool and creative things with their computer and PCs are for stodgy uptight business types.


And your point is? The PC has never been really for "creative things", even years ago when Macs had DTP and mice and laser printers - and PC users had, if they were lucky (?!) a Hercules Monochrome card and a serial printer. Just because the Evil Empire has managed to hide DOS behind multiple layers of obfuscated eye candy doesn't mean that it is usable. Just like when Windoze was mocked for BSODs, so the brainiacs at the Legion of Doom at Redmond figured out a multitude of ways to hide the BSODs from the user.

Windoze is nothing more than an OS for people afraid of using a computer, and prefer to use the worlds most retarded garbage OS because "it is easier". Easier than what - going to the beach and handcrafting a system out of sand? Their syhstem is so bad that even the highly paid executives at the Evil Empire, people who earn vast amounts of cash every year - can not afford a machine that can run Fi$ta along with the required peripherals.

That said - Macs have always been superior in the creative realm, with seamless handling of various graphics sources, integral PDF and PostScript support, and until recently, a fairly lean GUI. Only when Apple decided that Fi$ta was some kind of threat did they run the train of the tracks by crippling it with featuritis and bloatware. At least in the case of Apple, their bloatware actually does run and may be useful to some subset of the userbase. Of course, Snow Leopard may fix much of this bloat, but by that time, Apple will be in search of a new processor, once their deal runs out with Intel.


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

My view of the Mac switch ads are not at all about hardware. A PC could be running Linux. But no Goodman's PC is a personification of Windows and Microslop.

Goodman is a ”Gatesianesque” bobble head representation of the public face of MS. Joe public wouldn’t know a mug shot of M$’s Steve “Bullmore” or likely wouldn’t recognize a picture of Steve Jobs without a caption. But a picture of Gates most people could readily identify.

With regard to M$ advertising of late? That’s what it is late and lame. The fact that M$ is responding to the switch Ads identifies the target of the Ads. Again M$ just doesn’t have the wit nor wisdom to do anything that is original or imaginative just like their products, can you say M$BoB.


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

That's a commerical? That was the absolute worst thing I have ever seen...

The "Facepalm" was AWESOME!


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

EvanPitts said:


> ...And your point is?...


I actually made my point quite clear, if you could take you're blinders off for a second.


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## bgw (Jan 8, 2008)

Microsoft, they just... don't... grok it!


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## Mississauga (Oct 27, 2001)

"I'm a PC" is the same as saying "I'm just average". Most folks don't mind being average. MS is counting on that fact.


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

"I'm a PC and I sell Fish" guy was effing amazing.


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## chasMac (Jul 29, 2008)

Anyone think that the "i'm a Mac ...." ads might sway people into buying a pc? Everyone I know certainly enjoys the commercials, but it is found in Hodgman. Of the two characters portrayed who in their right minds would want to hang around with that passively-cocky s.o.b Mac guy? I think the majority of viewers would tend to associate with the pc fellow (which I assume is not what the admen want is this case). As that well known Guardian author said in reviewing the adds: "PCs are a bit rubbish yet ultimately lovable, whereas Macs are just smug, preening tossers." PCs come across as more human.


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

chasMac said:


> Anyone think that the "i'm a Mac ...." ads might sway people into buying a pc? Everyone I know certainly enjoys the commercials, but it is found in Hodgman. Of the two characters portrayed who in their right minds would want to hang around with that passively-cocky s.o.b Mac guy? I think the majority of viewers would tend to associate with the pc fellow (which I assume is not what the admen want is this case). As that well known Guardian author said in reviewing the adds: "PCs are a bit rubbish yet ultimately lovable, whereas Macs are just smug, preening tossers." PCs come across as more human.


If you hope Coyote will one day catch Road Runner you can identify and love Hodgman's PC character.


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## misty (Oct 31, 2007)

I say bring back the Liberals. 'Nuf with the pc's.


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## chasMac (Jul 29, 2008)

BigDL said:


> If you hope Coyote will one day catch Road Runner you can identify and love Hodgman's PC character.


Good point. Maybe the world can be divided into people who sympathize with the coyote or the road runner. I also thought Jerry was annoying and hoped that Tom would dispatch him finally.


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

screature said:


> I actually made my point quite clear, if you could take you're blinders off for a second.


I fail to see the point, that's all. You are claiming that the ad shows a "stereotype", but in essence, it really isn't. Macs are used by creative people that can afford to be laid back because they don't have to worry about their Registry or their Viruses or whether ot not their Camera will be compatible with some Service Pack garbage.

Windoze users are simply people that are afraid of acquiring any real knowledge about using a computer, and are also afraid of accomplishing anything of value. People flocked to Windoze like a bunch of lemmings out of a bad Disney flick from the 60's. I have always heard "oh, Windoze makes a computer easy to run. What a crock, I have NEVER seen anyone able to actually run Windoze. Almost all of the machines have that Start button junk stuck at the bottom, and that Taskbar junk - and if the system was actually "easy to use", all of that stuff would be eliminated on any real, runnable system.

So what I am staying is that it isn't really a stereotype - it is the truth. Macs are for people that accomplish things - while Windoze is for the clueless lemmings that like to fritter hours away playing host to viruses and bad programming practices.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

EvanPitts said:


> I fail to see the point, that's all...


And that is in fact my point. :heybaby:


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## EvanPitts (Mar 9, 2007)

screature said:


> And that is in fact my point. :heybaby:


It's beginning to look alot like the Chas_M thread... beejacon


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## tango (Apr 5, 2008)

Maybe I've been too wrapped up in my own little Mac world (not that it's a bad thing...) but when did Microsoft jump on the dotMac train with Bill Gates and his [email protected]? And maybe a better question, is anyone going to email "him"?


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## kb244 (Apr 23, 2002)

Apple should make an ad like this... except saying "I'm a Mac".

Just have everyone say their first name, then at the end pop up an apple logo and cut.


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## kb244 (Apr 23, 2002)

tango said:


> Maybe I've been too wrapped up in my own little Mac world (not that it's a bad thing...) but when did Microsoft jump on the dotMac train with Bill Gates and his [email protected]? And maybe a better question, is anyone going to email "him"?


I guess .Win was already taken


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

HowEver said:


> In which case, Macs are *four leaf clover*s.


Hey HowEver, that's a very clever _key_ phrase. :clap:


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## Orion (Apr 16, 2004)

It has probably been mentioned elsewhere, but here goes:

The tag line at the end of one of the short ads ("I wear a suit") is "Life Without Walls" leading to the question, "If there are no walls, why would I need windows?".

*badum ching*

Could it lead to the circular arguement that Windows gets rid of the walls therefore eliminating the need for windows which lets the walls come back thus requiring windows to get rid of them and then the windows have nowhere to be and...." etc., etc., etc.

Just askin'


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Bjornbro said:


> Hey HowEver, that's a very clever _key_ phrase. :clap:


Some recognition, finally!

(You know, for the _right_ reasons...)


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

pictor said:


> ...and without using a style that will remind people of the apple ads (except the first couple of seconds).


That's all anyone needs for a first impression and therefor, for me anyway, the ad was retaliatory and defensive.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Bjornbro said:


> That's all anyone needs for a first impression and therefor, for me anyway, the ad was retaliatory and defensive.


Oh it clearly is retaliatory and defensive without a doubt.


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## JSvo (Nov 12, 2007)

I think I'm one of the few that actually _liked_ the Seinfeld ad (the second one, which was quite funny in a few parts, the first one was meh). But this "I'm a PC" ad was cringeworthy, not because of the theme, but because when you get so many people in a row saying that phrase, they all blur into one image of the whole bunch of them being computer robots: "I'm a PC!" And can you imagine saying that, even if you love PCs, without feeling completely stupid?

This is different in the Mac ads, where it's absolutely clear that the two personas are just representational, not literal.

Having said that, I do hate the Mac ads, as I think Justin Long's character is the smarmiest, most smug little a-hole on tv, and he needs to be bitch-slapped into advertising oblivion. Hodgeman, otoh, is an absolute gem, and is the only saving grace in the ads. And of course he's awesomely funny on the Daily Show as well.

I really hope Apple gets a new ad campaign going, as this one is getting really tedious.


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## modsuperstar (Nov 23, 2004)

As soon as I saw that ad I thought Pherrell Williams was a Mac guy. Turns out I was right
Microsoft Gets Pharrell Williams To Lie For Them - mediabistro.com: AgencySpy

Good work Microsoft.


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## kb244 (Apr 23, 2002)

Macfury said:


> It's a curious ad. Not badly put together, but I don't know what they're trying to achieve. The basic premise appears to be that the Apple crowd has already sufficently marginalized users of "PCs" that they need to buck them up to the point where they're not ashamed to admit it.
> 
> Unfortunately, as pointed out by others, Microsoft is not "a PC" but the Apple ads have obviously pushed them to the point where they need to defend PCs as well as their own diseased OS.


Could they merely be trying to achieve a 'hey look at us, we exist, we're alive... '


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## tango (Apr 5, 2008)

Fun fact about "I'm a PC"


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## broken_g3 (Jun 27, 2008)

It's a bit long, but I don't see much of a problem with it. It's got a point (blatant PC stereotype), and it's better than the last two ads. But it still isn't as witty as the PC-Mac guy ads. 

And may I remind everyone that Apple themselves did not make up the "Get a Mac" advertisements, it was a marketing firm. So really, Microsoft is just ripping off the firm, not Apple.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

The new Windows ads are nothing more than Stuart Smalley's Daily Affirmation disguised as a commercial. It does nothing to draw new users so much as it makes the current users wrestling with Vista feel slightly less bad.

_I'm good enough, I'm smart enough and gosh darnit, people like me!_


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## zlinger (Aug 28, 2007)




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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Fox said:


> but still serves to break stereotypes and remind people that PC users come in all shapes and colours.


Really??

And PC users didn't know this (or forgot this) before .... why again??


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

screature said:


> The inference is that Macs are for the young, laid back cool people, who do cool and creative things with their computer and PCs are for stodgy uptight business types.


The majority of PCs in use *are* business computers.

The majority of Macs in use *are* for creative people -- both consumers and professionals.

Never met ANYONE who bought a Mac to do their taxes. Have met PLENTY of people who bought PCs for that exact purpose.



> Marketing is not so much about selling a product but about selling a life style and an image of yourself that is associated with the product.


If you seriously believe this is always true, then I'm anxiously, nay, _obsessively_ waiting for your explanation of what "life style" and "image" the first two MS ads in this campaign sought to convey, and how they wanted that associated with "the product" (which was -- sorry, what _was_ the product in those ads again? Some kind of shoe, was it?)



> In other words if I buy this I will be cool, attractive, smart, sexy, hip, etc. etc. etc.


Maybe I'm just not gay enough, but I did not see Justin Long as sexy, and never heard any female Mac buyers/users ever bring up this factor even once. Long's character was certainly very "laid back" and casual, and more youthful looking than John Hodgman's character, but attractive/sexy really didn't seem (to me) to be a big factor in the ads.



> By associating Macs with a young, hip, cool guy and and PCs with a middle aged, uptight, somewhat loveable but bumbling "Charlie Brown" type, we are definitely encouraged to associate and align ourselves with the Macs and not PCs.


I really didn't see this as the point of the ads at all. If that were the case, the PC character would have been made a LOT less likeable. Long kind of fades into the background compared to the humourous antics of Hodgman's character. The *PC* is the star of those ads by a country mile.

The point of those ads in my view was to present Mac as a VIABLE ALTERNATIVE to Windows, which was a concept that was _completely_ alien to the masses before this campaign began. Yes, Long is seen as youthful/hip and Hodgman is seen as corporate/old -- not arguing that end of it -- but the obstacle, the "resistance" that Apple had to overcome, was the notion that Macs _couldn't do the same things as PCs_, that you had _no option_ but Windows. Some of the early ads, I'll happily grant you, emphasised the "hip" aspect -- the giggling Japanese "printer" girl as an example -- but most of them, and for the last year (at least) pretty exclusively, the focus of the ads has been 100% on attacking Vista as flawed, and presenting the Mac as an alternative.

The ads are designed to reinforce the "whisper campaign" PC users have been subjected to for _years_ from Mac users, but which they just didn't believe -- that Macs can and do make for _fully functional replacements_ for Windows PCs, that they really _do_ run Microsoft Office, that they really _don't_ get viruses, that they really _do_ work with standard peripherals, etc. The ads don't even go into any kind of specific detail, they're just there to plant the seeds of curiousity. The viewer will see this reinforced everywhere they go, from iPod earbuds on every third person on the street to billboards/web ads to the clean white showrooms, and eventually -- they'll go in and start kicking the tires and asking questions.

_That's_ the purpose of the TV ads, in my opinion. And although I'm not claiming myself to be an expert, I _have_ worked in professional advertising for many years (including, for a time, for Apple), so I'm viewing this through the lens of someone who has been a "creative" on national ad campaigns.



> In fact the ads effectively portray the PC as being diverse in lifestyle, gender, profession and culture.


Again -- how stupid ARE pc users if they don't already know this?? Who, exactly, needed to know that PC users are diverse, and use their PCs in diverse ways? Even Mac users knew that!

The ad might as well have been saying "I breathe air!"



> From a marketing and communications perspective they are an effective "counter punch" to the Mac ads.


I couldn't disagree more. When you IMITATE a competitor, you are effectively ACKNOWLEDGING them, and when you don't contradict them, you are VALIDATING their claims!

Microsoft have now admitted that Leopard is "equal" to their own OS, and that Macs are IN FACT a viable alternative. The fact that they can't come up with their own message and instead have to COUNTER Apple's message with nothing more substantive than the bloody obvious ("lots of people use PCs!") ... implicitly and subtly validates Apple's message. The fact that Apple's ads are now seen as a threat will only RAISE the curiosity about Apple in people who still don't know much about them, because now (in the minds of the public) Apple _is_ a serious competitor to MS.

This MS ad marks "mission accomplished" for Apple, and I would not be at _all_ surprised if the "I'm a Mac" campaign winds down VERY quickly going forward, replaced by an entirely new campaign with a completely different emphasis. I have no idea what the new ads themselves will focus on, but the implicit message will be clear: "we're one step ahead of those guys."


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Adrian. said:


> "I'm a PC and I sell Fish" guy was effing amazing.


I had to go back and take another look at the ad to confirm my initial impression, but isn't it interesting that 100% of the people in the Microsoft ad are a) not using a computer and about 90% of them are b) doing things a computer would not assist them with, like carrying groceries or fending off sharks?

But lest my post above make it seem as though I'm 100% negative on the new ad, I will say it's quite gutsy to associate Microsoft/Windows with lawbreakers, poop-farmers, painfully-fake astronauts and goofy new-age frauds.

Hmm, maybe "gutsy" isn't the word I'm looking for ...


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## JumboJones (Feb 21, 2001)

This is Windows' "New Coke"—epic fail. If I wanted a Pepsi, I'd buy a Pepsi.


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## Bilbo (Jul 12, 2001)

Double-post.


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## Bilbo (Jul 12, 2001)

Beyond the so called stereotyping of PC people and Mac people. I think that the real reason that the "I'm a Mac" ads did so well is that they countered some long-standing Mac myths in the eyes of PC users. 

Rather than saying too much in each ad, they did it in a lot of small bites over many clean, simple commercials with a dash of humour.

They also poked fun at some of the frustrations of using a PC. Things like Viruses, stability, the 15 different versions of Vista.

Clearly Microsoft is taking the "I'm a Mac" ads too personally. Noticed that they haven't given any example about how Vista is superior to the Mac? I'm still waiting for that!

Myth 1: Mac are too expensive
Myth 2: Macs are just trendy, under-powered toys
Myth 3: Macs are only for "creative types", but not for those who do "real work"
Myth 4: Macs hardly have any software
Myth 4: I can't use my Microsoft Office files from work on a Mac
Myth 5: I can't put a Mac on my PC network
Myth 6: I can't share my PC files with a Mac
Myth 7: There are no "good" games for the Mac.

(I'm sure that you all have many more myths, this is just what came to mind)

I have talked with many PC users who told me that they had no idea that they had a viable alternative to Windows and that switching to the Mac was so easy!

It's important to remember that these ads are not at all marketed to anyone who frequents ehMac. (unless your a PC user out trolling)


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

chas_m said:


> The majority of PCs in use *are* business computers.
> 
> The majority of Macs in use *are* for creative people -- both consumers and professionals.
> 
> Never met ANYONE who bought a Mac to do their taxes. Have met PLENTY of people who bought PCs for that exact purpose.


Hmm, what about gaming, which now rivals Hollywood for revenues? Never met anyone who bought a Mac specifically to play games, while hundreds of thousands of PCs have been purchased almost exclusively for this purpose. I think the people and that play them and those that create them fit into the young hip and creative crowd.



chas_m said:


> If you seriously believe this is always true, then I'm anxiously, nay, _obsessively_ waiting for your explanation of what "life style" and "image" the first two MS ads in this campaign sought to convey, and how they wanted that associated with "the product" (which was -- sorry, what _was_ the product in those ads again? Some kind of shoe, was it?)


Never said it was always the case in every ad. In todays marketing many campaigns are based on serialization, just like TV shows, a single ad builds on another and then another and so on. It is not necessary for every ad to do the same thing as collectively they build to create the message. Clearly this is the case with the Mac ads and although it is yet to be seen if it is the case with these "PC" ads I suspect they will do the same.




chas_m said:


> Maybe I'm just not gay enough, but I did not see Justin Long as sexy, and never heard any female Mac buyers/users ever bring up this factor even once. Long's character was certainly very "laid back" and casual, and more youthful looking than John Hodgman's character, but attractive/sexy really didn't seem (to me) to be a big factor in the ads.


Chas_m, it was a list of possible attributes that marketers try to appeal to in general, I never said that they were attributes that Mac was specifically trying to appeal to in their ads. I kinda thought the etc.,etc., etc, would make that clear.  



chas_m said:


> I really didn't see this as the point of the ads at all. If that were the case, the PC character would have been made a LOT less likeable. Long kind of fades into the background compared to the humourous antics of Hodgman's character. The *PC* is the star of those ads by a country mile.


Well we have to agree to disagree here, because it is specifically the PCs likability that makes the ads work. If he was completely detestable the ads would be alienating and confrontational to PC users. As it is PC users can see it as "well I use a PC but I'm not like that guy although I have experienced his frustrations." We like PC, but really as I already said in the same kind of way we like Charlie Brown, we feel his pain, we empathize and sympathize, but we don't aspire to be like him.



chas_m said:


> The point of those ads in my view was to present Mac as a VIABLE ALTERNATIVE to Windows, which was a concept that was _completely_ alien to the masses before this campaign began. Yes, Long is seen as youthful/hip and Hodgman is seen as corporate/old -- not arguing that end of it -- but the obstacle, the "resistance" that Apple had to overcome, was the notion that Macs _couldn't do the same things as PCs_, that you had _no option_ but Windows. Some of the early ads, I'll happily grant you, emphasised the "hip" aspect -- the giggling Japanese "printer" girl as an example -- but most of them, and for the last year (at least) pretty exclusively, the focus of the ads has been 100% on attacking Vista as flawed, and presenting the Mac as an alternative.


Of course you have to speak to the features and benefits of a product in your marketing (Marketing 101) but good marketing goes way beyond that, it digs deep into our psyche in ways that we aren't even immediately cognitively aware of, it appeals to us at an emotional or animal level as well.



chas_m said:


> The ads are designed to reinforce the "whisper campaign" PC users have been subjected to for _years_ from Mac users, but which they just didn't believe -- that Macs can and do make for _fully functional replacements_ for Windows PCs, that they really _do_ run Microsoft Office, that they really _don't_ get viruses, that they really _do_ work with standard peripherals, etc. The ads don't even go into any kind of specific detail, they're just there to plant the seeds of curiousity. The viewer will see this reinforced everywhere they go, from iPod earbuds on every third person on the street to billboards/web ads to the clean white showrooms, and eventually -- they'll go in and start kicking the tires and asking questions.


At a superficial level this is of course true, but these are more sales related issues (comparison shopping) things that are in marketing campaigns because they must be (the nuts and bolts) but they are the crude materials that make up the ad or campaign. The finesse of marketing comes from the building of the brand, the personal identifications that we make, the loyalties that are formed etc., these things are beyond the reach of a spec sheet or a comparison list of features and benefits relative to your competition.



chas_m said:


> _That's_ the purpose of the TV ads, in my opinion. And although I'm not claiming myself to be an expert, I _have_ worked in professional advertising for many years (including, for a time, for Apple), so I'm viewing this through the lens of someone who has been a "creative" on national ad campaigns.


Well I do claim to be an expert. It is what I make my living from and have for going on twenty years. I have worked on international marketing campaigns for high tech companies, re-branded over half a dozen from top to bottom and developed, implemented and managed the marketing communications programs for politicians.

Even with that being the case it certainly doesn't mean that I know everything there is to know about marketing communications. No one person can, as in order to do so you would have to know every industry and culture inside out. However, I do feel I have a pretty good grasp on how successful marketing campaigns work in general, particularly in North America.




chas_m said:


> Again -- how stupid ARE pc users if they don't already know this?? Who, exactly, needed to know that PC users are diverse, and use their PCs in diverse ways? Even Mac users knew that!
> 
> The ad might as well have been saying "I breathe air!"
> 
> I couldn't disagree more. When you IMITATE a competitor, you are effectively ACKNOWLEDGING them, and when you don't contradict them, you are VALIDATING their claims!


Clearly this is a defensive ad, it is in reaction to the Mac ads, and can be seen to actually leveraging the popularity of the Mac ads. It isn't about providing anyone with new information, the idea here is clearly to make PC users feel OK about being a PC user. I don't agree that they are imitating them, they reference them yes, they don't imitate them.




chas_m said:


> Microsoft have now admitted that Leopard is "equal" to their own OS, and that Macs are IN FACT a viable alternative. The fact that they can't come up with their own message and instead have to COUNTER Apple's message with nothing more substantive than the bloody obvious ("lots of people use PCs!") ... implicitly and subtly validates Apple's message. The fact that Apple's ads are now seen as a threat will only RAISE the curiosity about Apple in people who still don't know much about them, because now (in the minds of the public) Apple _is_ a serious competitor to MS.
> 
> This MS ad marks "mission accomplished" for Apple, and I would not be at _all_ surprised if the "I'm a Mac" campaign winds down VERY quickly going forward, replaced by an entirely new campaign with a completely different emphasis. I have no idea what the new ads themselves will focus on, but the implicit message will be clear: "we're one step ahead of those guys."


I actually don't disagree with these statements. I had referred to the PC ad as being effective, but as I said I was speaking narrowly to the idea of the ads countering the stereotype of PC users and as I said I don't think this ad will translate into increased sales. If the campaign were to end here, or not develop significantly from this message then it would be an utter failure as a campaign. As I inferred, I am giving them the benefit of the doubt that this is a campaign that will develop over time (serialized), if it doesn't, well MS should bloody well fire their entire marketing communications department and start over from scratch.


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## ShawnKing (Mar 21, 2005)

HowEver said:


> These ads show a profound lack of comprehension with the "I'm a (computer)" concept.
> 
> There is also no indication at all that being a PC makes anything 'better' than being, or using, anything else.
> 
> Ubiquity does not equal greatness. It just means that there are a lot of something. You might as well say "I'm a blade of grass." In which case, Macs are four leaf clovers.


Brilliant - I'm stealing this for my show on Wednesday...


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## spitfire1945 (May 17, 2008)

I know that a Mac was used to make this ad but I think the point of this ad was the define what a PC is... a Mac is also a PC (Personal Computer) no?


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## broken_g3 (Jun 27, 2008)

spitfire1945 said:


> I know that a Mac was used to make this ad but I think the point of this ad was the define what a PC is... a Mac is also a PC (Personal Computer) no?


 There is actually a Japanese version of the Get a Mac ads called "nicknames". The Japanese Macintosh guy refers to himself as a PC, and the Japanese PC guy responds "No! I am the PC!" To which the Macintosh responds, "No, I am a PC too. Mac is just my nickname."

Could this be a reference to the fact that the Macintosh has lost all unique components, and is now (mechanically) indistinguisable from an IBM PC?


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## kb244 (Apr 23, 2002)

broken_g3 said:


> There is actually a Japanese version of the Get a Mac ads called "nicknames". The Japanese Macintosh guy refers to himself as a PC, and the Japanese PC guy responds "No! I am the PC!" To which the Macintosh responds, "No, I am a PC too. Mac is just my nickname."
> 
> Could this be a reference to the fact that the Macintosh has lost all unique components, and is now (mechanically) indistinguisable from an IBM PC?


I wouldn't say indistinguisable except maybe on a strict component level, they're basically like say Dell, alienware, etc etc offering computers they designed or least cordinated how they're put together, designed the aesthetics and unlike any other PC manufacture (currently) give you the full package with their own OS to match. 

The problem with some windows installed machines is that some manufactures especially on lower end hardware do not always keep close ties with microsoft in regards to compatibility and stability. With Apple the OS and Hardware are bundled by the same people so they know best about what is more likely to make their system go kaboom.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Question: how would we know?

Answer: we wouldn't, at least not from this commercial.




broken_g3 said:


> There is actually a Japanese version of the Get a Mac ads called "nicknames". The Japanese Macintosh guy refers to himself as a PC, and the Japanese PC guy responds "No! I am the PC!" To which the Macintosh responds, "No, I am a PC too. Mac is just my nickname."
> 
> Could this be a reference to the fact that the Macintosh has lost all unique components, and is now (mechanically) indistinguisable from an IBM PC?


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## kb244 (Apr 23, 2002)

HowEver said:


> Question: how would we know?
> 
> Answer: we wouldn't, at least not from this commercial.


Americans (or I guess we can say North Americans) don't seem to be sophisticated enough to understand such a message in the eyes of the Microsoft Marketing crew. Or that way may perceive it too boring and reflect upon it negatively. 

In my opinion of course they pretty much blamed most of Vista's problems on the users in the Mojave experiment.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Has anyone seen the Mojave experiment air on TV? I've only ever seen it on the web. Now I'm not glued to the set 24/7, but I have to admit to watching my fair share and I've never seen it "in the wild".


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## kb244 (Apr 23, 2002)

screature said:


> Has anyone seen the Mojave experiment air on TV? I've only ever seen it on the web. Now I'm not glued to the set 24/7, but I have to admit to watching my fair share and I've never seen it "in the wild".


I've seen it few times (least once or twice a week on cable network channels) , not lately but a while back. They're usually very small clips but I've definitely seen em. Course I'm also in the US, they could be airing it different for some provinces of Canada.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

It's strange that I haven't seen it up here, it must depend on the affiliate or something, because we get all the major US networks.


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## spitfire1945 (May 17, 2008)

screature said:


> Has anyone seen the Mojave experiment air on TV? I've only ever seen it on the web. Now I'm not glued to the set 24/7, but I have to admit to watching my fair share and I've never seen it "in the wild".


Nobody watches tv anymore. The intertubes are the best type of media that the advertisers can reach people with.


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## broken_g3 (Jun 27, 2008)

kb244 said:


> The problem with some windows installed machines is that some manufactures especially on lower end hardware do not always keep close ties with microsoft in regards to compatibility and stability. With Apple the OS and Hardware are bundled by the same people so they know best about what is more likely to make their system go kaboom.


Which is why, when I buy a Windows PC, I always buy HP. You don't have any of those bull**** hardware problems you get with crap manufacturers like MDG. Support and stability are great; in my opinion, under Windows XP, a good HP computer can easily rival a Macintosh.


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## FlaminWiz (Feb 18, 2008)

A decent ad ... for Microsoft anyways.
The Mac ads are waaaaay coooooooooooler. And better. And more creative. And more funny. ... I can go on forever ...


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## kb244 (Apr 23, 2002)

broken_g3 said:


> Which is why, when I buy a Windows PC, I always buy HP. You don't have any of those bull**** hardware problems you get with crap manufacturers like MDG. Support and stability are great; in my opinion, under Windows XP, a good HP computer can easily rival a Macintosh.


I actually hate HP cuz they put so much software crap on the machine (but normally when I buy something like that if I ever do, I format and do a clean install). 

Also we've been plagued by power problems with HP laptops and such too. My wife's screen even fell off her 17" HP laptop. So yes they have problems to. Toshiba is better than HP in my opinion when it comes to even needing to call support. 

PS: I've never heard of MDG.


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## FlaminWiz (Feb 18, 2008)

MDG, in my opinion is not even considered a PC. In their ads, they bull**** about all these promotions like "free" upgrades and one time a free Xbox 360 or something like that. Also, there parts are very cheap. I know for a fact that my cousins laptops have a crack in their hinges because their school, at the time, made them buy MDG, they had no options. 

Toshiba is alright, but I wouldn't know because I've never worked with one.

HP and Dell both seem to have some problems, but overall, I find Dell better. I have had a Dell Inspiron 3000 since 2003 and it is working just fine. My HP Laptop had it's primary hard drive fried within 2 years (bought in 2006, fried around December 2007). The Dell I paid around $400 while the HP Laptop I paid around $1500. As you can see, the $1500 machine is useless while the $400 machine works perfectly. 

This is my personal opinion based on configurations. Dell is not configured with graphics card, and the optionals, it is built with durability and how long it lasts. HP is built with media in mind. Almost all the HP Desktops have the Red, White and Yellow inputs (forgot the name) while the Dell doesn't. But if you really want a computer .. do I really have to say it. Hint: It's part of the name of this website.


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## broken_g3 (Jun 27, 2008)

kb244 said:


> Also we've been plagued by power problems with HP laptops and such too. My wife's screen even fell off her 17" HP laptop. So yes they have problems to. Toshiba is better than HP in my opinion when it comes to even needing to call support.


I only buy their desktops, so I've never encountered such a problem.


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## broken_g3 (Jun 27, 2008)

FlaminWiz said:


> But if you really want a computer .. do I really have to say it. Hint: It's part of the name of this website.


Yes, I have a Macintosh as well. Love it- could be using my HP all the time, but I choose to use the Mac. But I need a gaming PC.


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## kb244 (Apr 23, 2002)

Either way, Apple has been the only brand that I'd like to purchase for a brand name PC that I haven't built from scratch (I've built my windows/linux based machines from scratch since before 2000, I got a PowerMac 733 G4 back in 2001/2002 but I went back to windows due to lack of development software to my taste.)

Course having gotten this macbook early 2008 and how far OSX has come I'm pretty much sticking with it and if I use a windows based machine its usually something I'd prefered to have built myself. My wife had the HP laptop cuz a friend sold it to her, and she had a cheap eMachine desktop prior to that, but I'm usually pretty crafty about swaping out bad components for ones I know are reliable, just can't do that with the motherboard in most of these machines cuz they don't follow the standard form factor to allow for a motherboard replacement.

Even the macs have an issue or two somethings but not usually as bad, and usually the component that may seem cheap is easily replaced with something far more reliable ( in terms of HDD and memory). Thats what I did with my G4/733 got it with the 40GB configuration replaced that POS IBM harddrive with a seagate and swaped out the PC133 rams.

Alas I am not the average user, but based on my windows experience most of those in the "PC camp" wouldn't expect me to be on a mac.

Far as gaming I don't game nearly as much as I once did in terms of first person shooters and so forth. But I do have a lot of my old classics, including some only a couple years old that oddly enough play just great on my macbook rebooted into Windows XP such as Doom 3 and Half Life 2.


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## MrsMime (Sep 8, 2008)

This ad is a little off the mark.
"We're all PCs! We took Apple's line and we're trying to use it to our advantage! Is it working!?"

So an astronaut and the guy from N.E.R.D use Windows. I'm convinced..


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

screature said:


> Hmm, what about gaming, which now rivals Hollywood for revenues? Never met anyone who bought a Mac specifically to play games, while hundreds of thousands of PCs have been purchased almost exclusively for this purpose. I think the people and that play them and those that create them fit into the young hip and creative crowd.


Young, definitely. Hip, possibly (most hard-core gamers are hardly what you'd call hip -- unless misanthropic and socially awkward is the new "cool").

Creative? Absolutely not.

Creatives MAKE things. They don't play games (well, not hard-core).



> Never said it was always the case in every ad.


You certainly inferred such when you said the purpose of MARKETING is to make products sexy/attractive or imply that buying said product will make YOU sexy/attractive/hip etc.

That's certainly *a* goal of *some* products and their ad campaigns; but it's hardly universal.



> Clearly this is the case with the Mac ads and although it is yet to be seen if it is the case with these "PC" ads I suspect they will do the same.


Well, the ads might build *from this point forward,* but clearly the first two ads are not connected to this campaign and flopped miserably in -- well, whatever their mission was.



> We like PC, but really as I already said in the same kind of way we like Charlie Brown, we feel his pain, we empathize and sympathize, but we don't aspire to be like him.


I wasn't disagreeing with your characterisation of Hodgman's character as a "Charlie Brown" type, but my point was that Apple used these ads to put Macs on equal footing with PCs. Long's character is standing right next to PC, does the same things as PC, but has none of the problems PC always seems to have.

Apple doesn't have to hammer this point. It's subtle.

MS's ad is about as subtle as that shark. Not only that, they are unable to respond to the POINT of Apple's ads, because (believe it or not) there is still a law that says you can't blatantly lie in an ad.

That was my point.



> Of course you have to speak to the features and benefits of a product in your marketing (Marketing 101) but good marketing goes way beyond that, it digs deep into our psyche in ways that we aren't even immediately cognitively aware of, it appeals to us at an emotional or animal level as well.


I feel we've made a breakthrough here. That's EXACTLY what I'm saying. 



> Well I do claim to be an expert. It is what I make my living from and have for going on twenty years. I have worked on international marketing campaigns for high tech companies, re-branded over half a dozen from top to bottom and developed, implemented and managed the marketing communications programs for politicians.


Sounds like we would have a lot to talk about over good beers in our real lives! 



> Even with that being the case it certainly doesn't mean that I know everything there is to know about marketing communications. No one person can, as in order to do so you would have to know every industry and culture inside out. However, I do feel I have a pretty good grasp on how successful marketing campaigns work in general, particularly in North America.


And I don't for a second dispute that. My point was that you seem to be dismissive of how well APPLE'S "North America" campaign worked, in part because I think you missed the real point of those ads.

The fact that Microsoft is now in a position where they have to respond means Apple wins. Mission accomplished, to use a regrettably sullied phrase.



> I don't agree that they are imitating them, they reference them yes, they don't imitate them.


Except for the guy in the brown suit at the beginning, you mean?



> I actually don't disagree with these statements. I had referred to the PC ad as being effective, but as I said I was speaking narrowly to the idea of the ads countering the stereotype of PC users


This is really the only point at which we disagree. WHAT "stereotype of PC users"? PC users are the majority (by far!). This is like saying we need an ad campaign to fight the "stereotype" of white people. Say wha--?

That MS thinks the PUBLIC thinks PC users have been "stereotyped" as doughy guys in brown suits shows just how badly they've misinterpreted Apple's ads, and how stupid they think their customer base is (a running theme in a LOT of their ads, it has to be said -- remember the Vista rollout, when MS posited that Vista would give people the power of levitation?).



> As I inferred, I am giving them the benefit of the doubt that this is a campaign that will develop over time (serialized), if it doesn't, well MS should bloody well fire their entire marketing communications department and start over from scratch.


I'm sure they will create further ads, but where do you go with "I'm a PC" as a "serialised" follow-on? More people in other fields saying the same thing? I would think their next ad will be nothing like this one, again trying to paint MS as trendy without mentioning the elephant in the room. Their one attempt to convince users that Vista is good so far was the "Mojave" ad -- yeah, that went over well ...

Given the WHOLE of what we've seen so far (three ads in, let's not forget), it's pretty obvious that MS doesn't have a clue what they want to say to their audience and is just "flopping around" looking for a message that resonates beyond "hey, look at me!!".

As an advertising professional yourself, you know that this happens a _lot_ more often than really high-quality, disciplined "campaigns" (with unifying themes, clear messages and audience appreciation) do.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

broken_g3 said:


> There is actually a Japanese version of the Get a Mac ads called "nicknames". The Japanese Macintosh guy refers to himself as a PC, and the Japanese PC guy responds "No! I am the PC!" To which the Macintosh responds, "No, I am a PC too. Mac is just my nickname."
> 
> Could this be a reference to the fact that the Macintosh has lost all unique components, and is now (mechanically) indistinguisable from an IBM PC?


No, it is not.

There is an English version of this ad, with only minor wording differences. However, in the English version the meaning (at least to us) is much more obvious: the Mac is saying "I can run Windows as well, so I can do everything that I can do, and I can do everything that YOU can do *as well.*"

It's quite clearly meant to reassure Windows switchers that they will not "lose" any PC "functionality" (I know, oxymoron right??  ) if they switch to Mac. They will not lose Windows, they will gain Windows + Mac.

PS. Macs and PCs are, on a component level, _more similar_ then they have been in the past, but they are not "mechanically indistinguishable" from a PC. Most Mac models have at least some components (and the actual motherboard layout itself) that are still Apple-designed, as well as "standard" components not found in most PCs (like firewire ports on the motherboard).

And I strongly suspect that Macs are about to differentiate themselves from PCs on the component level much _more_ in the near future.


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## biovizier (Dec 21, 2005)

screature said:


> Well I do claim to be an expert. It is what I make my living from and have for going on twenty years.


What I find interesting about this statement is that you have been lecturing in this thread about how people should take the ads, rather than listening to what people are saying about their impressions about how they are perceiving them - something I would have thought someone in that business would be keenly interested in...


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

biovizier said:


> What I find interesting about this statement is that you have been lecturing in this thread about how people should take the ads, rather than listening to what people are saying about their impressions about how they are perceiving them - something I would have thought someone in that business would be keenly interested in...


Hey, everyone is entitled to an opinion and a handful of biased Mac users does not make a focus group. I am merely expressing my own opinion as well, it is a discussion, back and forth... I would be interested in merely listening if I were on the creative team that made the ads, I wasn't so I am just a part of the audience with an opinion and a view myself.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

broken_g3 said:


> Yes, I have a Macintosh as well. Love it- could be using my HP all the time, but I choose to use the Mac. But I need a gaming PC.


Isn't it slightly ironic that PC's, once known as the "IBM clones" and meant primarily for business applications, now have their claim to fame as "gaming machines." In the early days, clone-users used to look down on Macs as glorified etch-a-sketches, what with their graphical user interfaces and mouse controllers. Serious computer users would never engage in such frivolities as "games." My how times have changed.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

chas_m said:


> ...Creative? Absolutely not.
> 
> Creatives MAKE things. They don't play games (well, not hard-core).


Chas_m if you re-read my post I also mentioned those who *create* the games, they are the creative ones I was referring to.



chas_m said:


> You certainly inferred such when you said the purpose of MARKETING is to make products sexy/attractive or imply that buying said product will make YOU sexy/attractive/hip etc.
> 
> That's certainly *a* goal of *some* products and their ad campaigns; but it's hardly universal.


Actually what I said was "Marketing is not so much about selling a product but about selling a life style and an image of yourself that is associated with the product."

I agree that this approach to marketing isn't universal, but it is particularly effective especially in the consumer product realm and with certain demographic and psychograpic groups (most notably the young under 30s).

Because this is the arena for the products that we are talking about, I assumed my statements about marketing to be in reference to this realm and I should have been more specific in my use of the word marketing, i.e. "marketing consumer products to the under 30 crowd tends..."




chas_m said:


> Well, the ads might build *from this point forward,* but clearly the first two ads are not connected to this campaign and flopped miserably in -- well, whatever their mission was.


I don't dispute what you say about the first two ads, they are so completely different, I don't even view them as being part of the same campaign.




chas_m said:


> And I don't for a second dispute that. My point was that you seem to be dismissive of how well APPLE'S "North America" campaign worked, in part because I think you missed the real point of those ads.


No I am not in the least bit dismissive of the success of the Mac ads, quite the contrary they have been incredibly effective and I think one of the most brilliant campaigns ever run. Where we disagree is on *how* they work, not *that* they work.



chas_m said:


> Except for the guy in the brown suit at the beginning, you mean?


To be completely hair splitting, I would call that a reference, a quotation if you will, not an imitation, but it is a small point that we don't need to get hung up on.




chas_m said:


> This is really the only point at which we disagree. WHAT "stereotype of PC users"? PC users are the majority (by far!). This is like saying we need an ad campaign to fight the "stereotype" of white people. Say wha--?
> 
> That MS thinks the PUBLIC thinks PC users have been "stereotyped" as doughy guys in brown suits shows just how badly they've misinterpreted Apple's ads...


Just because something is in the majority doesn't mean it can't be stereotyped.

Just to be clear and fully make my point here is the definition of a stereotype:
_
• a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing
• a person or thing that conforms to such an image 
_

It is quite clear that in both the cases of PC and Mac the ads use, stereotypes they are founded on them. They come out and say "I am a PC", "I am a Mac", and because they are personifications, they inherently are stereotypes of the related users. It's just that simple. 



chas_m said:


> I'm sure they will create further ads, but where do you go with "I'm a PC" as a "serialised" follow-on? More people in other fields saying the same thing? I would think their next ad will be nothing like this one, again trying to paint MS as trendy without mentioning the elephant in the room. Their one attempt to convince users that Vista is good so far was the "Mojave" ad -- yeah, that went over well ...
> 
> Given the WHOLE of what we've seen so far (three ads in, let's not forget), it's pretty obvious that MS doesn't have a clue what they want to say to their audience and is just "flopping around" looking for a message that resonates beyond "hey, look at me!!".


I generally agree with these statements. The thing that I have a hard time fathoming, is how can a company with the depth of resources available to them like MS have, not have the ability to run a decent campaign? Perhaps they are truly that far gone that they can't, but as I said it will be interesting to see what the are capable of or if they will just flail in the wind.




chas_m said:


> As an advertising professional yourself, you know that this happens a _lot_ more often than really high-quality, disciplined "campaigns" (with unifying themes, clear messages and audience appreciation) do.


Yes this is true, but again when you have the resources that MS has you would expect them to be able to deliver. Maybe it is truly time to do some culling in their marcom department.


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

chas_m said:


> That MS thinks the PUBLIC thinks PC users have been "stereotyped" as doughy guys in brown suits shows just how badly they've misinterpreted Apple's ads...


Nowhere is this better illustrated than by Gates himself and his interviewer!



> *GARFIELD: I want to ask you one more thing: Those Mac ads -- how do you feel about the John Hodgman character?*
> 
> GATES: I can't comment on someone else's ad.
> 
> ...


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

screature said:


> Chas_m if you re-read my post I also mentioned those who *create* the games, they are the creative ones I was referring to.


Yeah, I missed that. Sorry.



> Because this is the arena for the products that we are talking about, I assumed my statements about marketing to be in reference to this realm and I should have been more specific in my use of the word marketing, i.e. "marketing consumer products to the under 30 crowd tends..."


I'm happy to go along with that revised wording, but all that tells me is that the first two MS ads weren't aimed at the under-30s.



> I don't dispute what you say about the first two ads, they are so completely different, I don't even view them as being part of the same campaign.


Yes, it really is amazing how MS can just throw money around pointlessly, isn't it?



> Where we disagree is on *how* they work, not *that* they work.


This is a point that I don't think anyone else commenting (professionally) on the MS ads has realised ... for MS to have an ad campaign as successful as the Apple one, they'd need to TRIPLE their business over the next six years as Apple has done.



> Just because something is in the majority doesn't mean it can't be stereotyped.


The problem, though, is that Apple's ads made NO ATTEMPT to stereotype -- or even represent -- PC users. No PC *user* has ever been featured in an Apple ad (at least not in this campaign). Hodgman's character doesn't represent PC users, doesn't represent MS, doesn't represent Gates (contrary to what the dumbass Gates interviewer thinks). Hodgman's character is nothing more than a personification (a brutally honest one, actually) of Windows.



> Just to be clear and fully make my point here is the definition of a stereotype:
> _
> • a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing_


_

I don't think we're allowed to discuss politics in this section. 





It is quite clear that in both the cases of PC and Mac the ads use, stereotypes they are founded on them. They come out and say "I am a PC", "I am a Mac", and because they are personifications, they inherently are stereotypes of the related users. It's just that simple.

Click to expand...

No it isn't. They are exactly and precisely what they say they are. Not users, not companies, not people in any sense of the world. They are the Mac OS and the Windows OS, and the only reason Hodgman doesn't say he's "Windows" is that it's a trademarked term.




I generally agree with these statements. The thing that I have a hard time fathoming, is how can a company with the depth of resources available to them like MS have, not have the ability to run a decent campaign?

Click to expand...

Now THAT, my dear comrade, is the heart of the issue!!

More importantly, HOW CAN WE MAKE MONEY OFF OF THEM???!!!! beejacon_


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## Bilbo (Jul 12, 2001)

I for one am very curious to see what the next ads bring to the table.

In my opinion the first two ads were a total waste of money. They did nothing to improve their brand. They did nothing to state why Windows is so great.

The third ad, I feel is a step in the right direction. Mind you, that's no great feat because the first two ads did not set the bar very high. The third ad is more of a "feel good" piece. So many people in all walks of life use Windows, so therefor you should too.

The feel good ads can only carry Microsoft so far. After a while, anyone with half of a brain is going to ask themselves "where's the beef?". You say Windows is better than the Mac? Show me how it's better.

If you go back to early days of the Mac and Windows, both operating systems looked similar, but one was far cheaper. Gates knew that Windows wasn't as good as the Mac but he recognized that long-term success would come with market share. He was right and it paid off big time. He's been riding on that winning bet, ever since.

The exchange between Bill and Steve at the end of Pirates of Silicon Valley says it all. It went something like this:

Steve to Bill: "Our stuff is better."

Bill to Steve: "You just don't get it do you... THAT doesn't matter!"


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

chas_m said:


> No it isn't. They are exactly and precisely what they say they are. Not users, not companies, not people in any sense of the world. They are the Mac OS and the Windows OS, and the only reason Hodgman doesn't say he's "Windows" is that it's a trademarked term.


Well, I guess on this point we will just have to agree to disagree. It's been a good exchange though...


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

screature said:


> Well, I guess on this point we will just have to agree to disagree.


Actually, I'll retract that bit. It's not the reason Hodgman doesn't say he's "Windows."

The reason he doesn't say it is because then Long would have to say "and I'm Mac OS ten," which makes things awkward. As far as consumers are concerned, PCs *are* XP and/or Vista, and Macs are Mac OS X. The operating system is, in the mind of non-nerds, inseparable from the hardware.

But I do maintain that Hodgman and Long are playing personifications of their respective OS's, not users or user stereotypes. I certainly don't fit Justin Long's description of a Mac user and I'm sure you don't either.



> It's been a good exchange though...


Definitely worthy of a drink on me if you're ever in the Victoria area. Cheers.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

chas_m said:


> Actually, I'll retract that bit. It's not the reason Hodgman doesn't say he's "Windows."
> 
> The reason he doesn't say it is because then Long would have to say "and I'm Mac OS ten," which makes things awkward. As far as consumers are concerned, PCs *are* XP and/or Vista, and Macs are Mac OS X. The operating system is, in the mind of non-nerds, inseparable from the hardware.
> 
> ...



I'll take you up on that chas_m,  ! 

I have to say in terms of Apple's intentions as far as the personification of PC and Mac goes, I would be willing to bet you are right. 

But speaking as one who has created thousands of pieces of "visual communication" (including my years in art school) one thing I have learned (if nothing else) is once your work is out there to be interpreted by the public, what the work means is no longer only what you intended. The "meaning" becomes whatever those who view it say it means, right or wrong (as far as coinciding with the creators original intention).

So in the case of the "personifications" of PC and Mac, if some of the public "view" them as stereotypes, then stereotypes they are, at least to those who view or interpret them as such.


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## Bilbo (Jul 12, 2001)

*Interesting Newsweek Article*

Dan Lyons: A Gloomy Vista for Microsoft | Newsweek Daniel Lyons | Techtonic Shifts | Newsweek.com


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)




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## MrNeoStylez (Sep 16, 2008)

i like the mac.. yay for stereotypes lawl


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## FlaminWiz (Feb 18, 2008)

Nice comic strip HowEver. Very professional. And completely true.


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## chuckster (Nov 30, 2003)

*Best Reply*

Here's a nice, albeit fake, reply to the Microsoft ad.
YouTube - I'm a PC


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Great Comic Strip HowEver, I wonder if it was done using screen captures and Comic Life, sure looks like it.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

screature said:


> Great Comic Strip HowEver, I wonder if it was done using screen captures and Comic Life, sure looks like it.


You could ask the Joy of Tech people.

They're rarely unfunny btw.


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## FlaminWiz (Feb 18, 2008)

YouTube - South Park Mac vs. PC

Just watched it, its pretty good.


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