# Card swiping scam hits friend



## MacAndy (May 17, 2004)

Hi all,

Just a warning folks - it can happen to ANYONE!!!! Do not let any store clerk take your card out of your site, avoid having them take the card at all if possible. A friend's wife had their card swiped in a duplicating scam, their PIN videotaped, and lost $1,000 to the crooks.

Do not give your card to anyone to swipe and make sure you cover your PIN number when using any machine - even at an ABM - crooks have been known to install fake systems on *BANK* machines.

Scum of the earth that they are.


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## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

Sorry to hear your friend got dinged. 

My father in law had his credit card number harvested from an Air Canada check in machine at Pearson Airport (can you believe that). Fortunately it was just a credit card and the only thing that came of it was having his card declined while on a trip. I was there and had to cover all of his expenses while out of town so it wasn't much of an inconvenience. I couldn't believe that his card was picked up from an official airport kiosk. It must have taken some balls to get the scammers stuff into that system.


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## Cameo (Aug 3, 2004)

My son (and others) had his drivers liscense and debit card swiped from work - the person who stole it had also stolen payroll cheques from Canadian Tire. Used my son's liscense to fill out the cheque for 1300 dollars and went to a branch of his bank. Clerk did not check ID for the debit card and deposited the cheque - withdrawing 900.00 of it for the thief. This was last oct. The fellow did the same thing somewhere else but the clerk there was more on the ball and the fellow was caught. He admitted to everything and is in jail. BUT, even though the bank has written proof that this is fraud from the detective who arrested the fellow and the quilty party has admitted everything - the bank is holding my son responsible for the 900.00. It has gone to CBCL and he is getting threatening notes from them over this. It is utterly absurd. My son is NOT paying for this and the bank knows that cause I have been on their case. The branch manager is doing his best but it is headquarters causing the problem.


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## blue sky (Oct 24, 2003)

> It has gone to CBCL and he is getting threatening notes from them over this. It is utterly *absurd*. My son is NOT paying for this and the bank knows that cause I have been on their case. The branch manager is doing his best but it is headquarters causing the problem.


The branch manager has the authority to write off the amount as a loss.

The branch manager does not necessarily have the authority to clear things up with CBCL. * This should be addressed right away.* This will affect your son's credit rating. It will be very difficult to clear up if it is left for too much longer. 

I hope that you have everything documented. If not, do so right away, including the police reports and the conviction. Next, ask the branch manager who is his boss and advise the BM that you will be taking this to the next level. ONLY provide them copies, never originals. (the next level will probably be a regional vice president, who has plenty of clout)

If it is not resolved (make sure you keep records of all correspondence, calls and meetings) within two weeks, advise the VP that you want to escalate this. Be prepared to take it all the way to the top. And, if no one listens, there is always the bank's ombudsman, whose information should be on the website and/or in the annual report.

Too bad you aren't heading to the bank's annual meeting. This type of thing would make the press and make the top guys squirm, at least for a few minutes.
Don't wait any longer, get on their case.


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

Better Business Bureau, or Chamber of Commerce might be some help here, no? Don't really know, but that's the thought that occurs to me.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

About eight years ago, a gas station clerk (from what I can figure out) swiped my Amex card through one of those illegit readers and crooks managed to ring up over 12 grand buying scuba gear. It was a bit of a shock to see that on my statement, to say the least.

Amex reversed every dime.


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## ThirtyOne (Jan 18, 2003)

For this reason I always use a credit card for anything over $5 or $10. In fact no matter how small the transaction, if they take credit, I'll use that.

The reason behind this strategy comes from having had my credit card number ripped off various times in south east asia (and always at supposedly reputable stores and 4 or 5 star hotels), and having had my bank card copied and PIN number stolen at an ATM. With the bank card, I lost $500 which TD refused to ever give back to me. They pretty much told me it was my fault for using an ATM in a foreign country, and after 7 or 8 months of fighting with them about this, I just gave up. With the credit card, on the other hand, I've enjoyed Visa's zero-liability policy which means I've never lost a cent because of credit card fraud.

There was a scam going on in Ottawa this past Christmas where a store was ripping off debit cards and some credit cards. The cops got them, but the general advice afterwards from some financial advisors was what I just said: use a credit card for all purchases because of Visa and Mastercard's zero-liability policy, and only use your debit card to pull out cash from your own bank.

What I find funny is that everywhere you look banks and credit card companies are telling you to protect yourself from online indentity theft, but they completely ignore that the vast majority of identity theft and fraud happens offline. I feel much safer shopping online than I do shopping at a store. I think it is about time Canada's banks finally moved to the EMV chip-cards like the rest of the world (at least like all of Asia and Europe) in order to have some real security.


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## RicktheChemist (Jul 18, 2001)

.


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

Good ol' Cashola for me, if possible.

I rarely use Interac, because even though it's convenient, the whole program is a scam for the big banks to take a bite out of every single transaction anywhere, anytime. Not to mention the fraud possibilities. The banks act quickly on the problems now, but if the system ever becomes entrenched to the point they would like it to be, do you think they'll give a damn about their customers piddling problems? Interac and Credit Cards are a license to print money for them and I'd rather not participate if I can avoid it.

Unfortunately I need to deal with Merchant Visa and M/C for my business and I hate it. I try and actively discourage my customers from using it if possible without pissing them off. Fortunately many people in Canada hate their banks too so are often glad to hear my reasoning. I'm sick of getting nickle and dimed on charges from them and their sub-contractors. I've resisted taking Interac because I don't want to rent the equipment from the bank at exorbitant rates. You probably pay for their cost on the equipment in 2 months rent or less. What a nice set-up for them.

I think that if some bank just came in with reasonable and fair charges to take CCs and Interac, they would probably take over the small business market and earn the eternal gratitude of we who are not gigantic corporations. And they would still make buckets of money.

Better not get me going on banks.


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## MacGYVER (Apr 15, 2005)

I'm glad that so many people like using credit cards, but why is it that 95% or higher of all merchants in Canada do not check the credit card prior to swiping?

I can tell you almost 99.9% of all merchants I visit have failed for checking for I.D. or even checking to make sure I actually own the credit card.

I once walked into a store with a female name on a credit card, just to check if they would accept it (friends credit card), sure enough they took the credit card, swiped without checking the name or signature and I paid for the item. Afterwards the item was returned and the manager of the store was notified of the problem. 

My credit card is not even signed. I never get asked for I.D., I have actually signed sale slips with the Prime Ministers name, famous movie actors and the list goes on and on. I am not joking when I say, I have yet to be asked for I.D. let alone for any merchant to actually check my signature or name that I actually printed instead of signed on the sales slip. 

Why are Canadian merchants so careless? On the other hand, credit card theft has risen over the years, but nothing is being done from the merchants end, nothing at all. For those merchants who actually ask me for I.D. or check my signature, I thank them for doing a great job. 

What is your opinion on using your credit card and having merchants check your I.D. or signature? Should you be asked every time you use your credit card? or just occasionally?


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## Mrsam (Jan 14, 2006)

I've had my card copied and $5,000 stolen, thankfully CIBC reimberses!


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## glennis (Jun 29, 2003)

*debit card compromised*

Bank of Nova Scotia informed me on Tuesday that my debit card has been compromised. I went straight to my branch and $1000 has been withdrawn from my account without my knowledge or consent. I am waiting to see how this plays out. I only used my debit card at a Bank of Nova Scotia to deposit a cheque and at Food Basics and Loblaws to buy groceries. I was freaked out as my lines of credit and Scotiabank trading accounts are all linked to this card. Waiting to see how Scotia Bank treats this. Will keep you informed...

Glennis


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

glennis said:


> Bank of Nova Scotia informed me on Tuesday that my debit card has been compromised.


I had CIBC phone me one day and tell me that. I'd like to know what they meant by that because I only used my debit card at one place, the Famous Players theatre, and there was no strange debits from my account. Did CIBC catch the debit before it happened? How did it get compromised?

As for credit cards, talkin' about checkin' ID, do those gas pumps that take your credit card ask for a PIN or ID? Don't you just swipe your card and that's it? If it is, isn't that scary. No check for ID.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I once used my CIBC VISA to make three purchases at West Edmonton Mall, all within one hour of each other and totalling over $1,000.

The bank called me later in the day to confirm it was in fact me that used the card as they considered that unusual activity. Nice to know they track things like that.


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

MacGYVER said:


> Why are Canadian merchants so careless? On the other hand, credit card theft has risen over the years, but nothing is being done from the merchants end, nothing at all. For those merchants who actually ask me for I.D. or check my signature, I thank them for doing a great job.
> 
> What is your opinion on using your credit card and having merchants check your I.D. or signature? Should you be asked every time you use your credit card? or just occasionally?


Don't blame the merchants. The credit card companies could mandate photos and signatures printed on cards, like some do in the US and Europe, but that makes producing the cards more expensive and makes it a much harder process to pass them out by the bucketloads to anyone who applies. Why should the merchant be responsible for enforcing CC security? They are already charging us heavily for the "privilege" of accepting the bloody things.

The CC companies along with banks and major corporations promote these shop and swipe schemes like the gas payments mentioned above, because they know that the profits for them are greater than any losses will be. They know that 99.99 percent of the population are not criminals and the other stuff can just be written off and charged back to their customers in exorbitant interest rates and to the small merchants in nickel and dime charges for everything.

I have on several occasions asked women who are using their husbands credit card to go and get their husband to make the purchase - often it's done in a situation where they are shopping together and the husband would rather just sit down elsewhere and have a coffee. In all the cases I put the sale at risk, because people don't like being questioned by someone who is there to take their money. In one case, I did lose the sale, the women walked off in a huff, even though she was fully aware that she wasn't allowed to sign her name on a purchase using her husbands CC. She insisted I was accusing her of dishonesty even though I made it clear to her I wasn't, I was just attempting to follow the proper procedure that I had agreed with my bank to follow.

In the end it's the CC companies that don't really care about security. They make noises to the merchants about it, but never enforce anything. If the merchant takes a stolen credit card and doesn't get the authorization it's their risk, not the CC company. I don't use a point of sale card swiping system, I use a system where I take a manual imprint and key in the required numbers on the phone. I got burned once when I accepted a stolen card and didn't make the phone call to authorize it. The system was new to me and had been marketed as a system where I could call in all my CC's at the end of the day. When I called in this one, it was stolen and when I spoke to an agent, they said basically, "Sorry, you lose." When I offered a description of the crook they said "We have no system for taking that information, but we'll have someone call you." I never got a call. 

They know that with automatic authorization through their point of sale systems that anyone using a stolen card has very little time to use that card before it is reported stolen and won't work any more. They were much more serious about security in the days before computer authorization when each merchant had a floor limit under which they were covered for fraud. 

Any losses that the CC companies do take over stolen cards or other fraud is written off, it's a cost of doing business and it's cheaper to do very little then to implement changes like better screening of their customers and applications. They also can use fraud to justify their massive interest rates. However they do it, it's designed to not lose them any money, problems for their customers are secondary.

I once had a mysterious charge show up on my Visa after making an Apple store purchase. I asked Apple if the charge was theirs, they said no. I checked with the credit card company, they said I must have spyware on my computer or was doing business with a flaky online company. I said no and no and that I was fully aware of how to take precautions when purchasing on the internet.

Rather than investigate it, which I insisted that they do, they cancelled my card, as if it had been stolen and I was without it for a week or so while they mailed me a new one. When I asked to speak to a manager this person said there was no way they could investigate the charge, since there were simply too many that occurred, so they ate the loss.

The thing that bothered me is that they showed so little interest in dealing with it, the best solution and no doubt the one their supervisors was telling them to go with, was to write it off and move on to the next call. Investigating a $300. charge didn't seem to be worth their time. 

This is why our CC interest rates are so high. Don't blame the merchants for that.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

SINC said:


> I once used my CIBC VISA to make three purchases at West Edmonton Mall, all within one hour of each other and totalling over $1,000.
> 
> The bank called me later in the day to confirm it was in fact me that used the card as they considered that unusual activity. Nice to know they track things like that.


Had that happen many a time...


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## VNJ85 (Feb 24, 2006)

So why don't people just use their cards then call them in stolen or something?


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

VNJ85 said:


> So why don't people just use their cards then call them in stolen or something?


There are some people that do things like that, but fortunately most people are honest and have a little problem with things like stealing.


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## simon (Nov 2, 2002)

VNJ85 said:


> So why don't people just use their cards then call them in stolen or something?


because that would be dishonest


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

VNJ85 said:


> So why don't people just use their cards then call them in stolen or something?


Aside from the honesty comment above, think about what happens to you when the store video camera shows you doing this.


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

Interesting. We use debit for everything. Always have. Citizen's Bank has a flat rate service fee plan. $8 per month for everything. So it makes no difference that way. And cash is much, much too easy to fritter away on small purchases. We have a very tight budget, so being able to track virtually everything helps a lot. If Timmies here had interac like they do in Vancouver, we probably wouldn't need cash for anything other than parking meters.
Interestingly, I had a clerk at a store tell me that they weren't allowed to let me swipe my own card. She did anyways.


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

GratuitousApplesauce said:


> . When I asked to speak to a manager this person said there was no way they could investigate the charge, since there were simply too many that occurred, so they ate the loss.


The reason they weren't interested in following up is that they simply charged the loss back to the merchant who accepted the card. *Even when they authorized the charge to the merchant originally*

MasterCard and Visa aren't out any $$ at all on 99% of cardholder refunds.


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

RevMatt said:


> Interesting. We use debit for everything. Always have. Citizen's Bank has a flat rate service fee plan. $8 per month for everything.


This is why the banks love debit cards too. $96./year from you and 15 or 30 cents as a transaction charge to each merchant for each and every transaction you make in the year. Lets conservatively say 15 or so transactions a week or around 800/year. That's another $120 - $240/year from your business. They would *SO* love it if they could convince most the adult population to ditch cash too. What would that be - 20 million or so in Canada? Times $200 - $300/year = $4 - $6 Billion. I bet they paid off that Interac infrastructure quite a few years ago, that's some gravy they're bringing in.

Plus various nickel and dime charges to the hundreds of thousands of merchants for the equipment they use, (equipment likely paid for in a couple of monthly payments) and whatever else they can think of to ding them with for the "privilege" of taking your debit card. Many millions more in free money.

What is it the banks and their sub-contractors actually do for all this money, either from debit or credit cards? They've managed to eliminate a lot of the jobs out of the equation from the days when merchants deposited paper slips that had to be checked over. The credit card business was hugely profitable even then, now it's insanely profitable.

So I go to a merchant and swipe my card. The money goes from my account or credit card to the merchant's bank account, but only after a day or two, when the bank can make a bit more interest off of that money that no longer is mine or the merchants. Then the bank puts it's withdrawal charge on my account or adds the charge to my CC account. If I'm carrying a balance that's more interest for them at exorbitant rates. 

Then they charge the merchant a transaction charge and their other various fees. If it's a CC they charge the merchant a "discount". For little micro businesses it can be as high as 5%, for major retailers with leverage, probably less than 1%. Many pay something like 1.75%, if they use all the bank's hugely expensive to rent electronic "solutions".

So they've now grabbed some dough from the me and the merchant. So far they haven't had to pay anyone to do anything. They print statements for me and the merchant and mail them off, probably with a computer run machine to lick the envelopes. Or better yet both the merchant and me check our statements on the internet. 

Yes they do have some expenses, but with a no-labour automatic set-up like this and many billions of transactions per year, I would bet that their costs are paid by the tiny bit of interest they can make when the payment is in the one day no man's land but still sitting on their books. The rest is gravy.

What a sweet deal. Just how do I get a scam like this working for me? Oh right, I can't.

Which is why, as I said earlier, I try not to use debit or credit cards. I like cash, because the banks don't get a piece of it. If I could manage somehow, I wouldn't have a bank account at all, but that's not really possible.

Even better than Canadian dollars, here's something I'd like to see a lot more of:

Local currency
Toronto Dollar
Salt Spring Island Dollars


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

CanadaRAM said:


> The reason they weren't interested in following up is that they simply charged the loss back to the merchant who accepted the card. *Even when they authorized the charge to the merchant originally*
> 
> MasterCard and Visa aren't out any $$ at all on 99% of cardholder refunds.


Yes, of course, what on earth was I thinking? The rule is: The House Always Wins.


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## Trose (Feb 17, 2005)

I find this thread very interesting. Especially considering I'm still quite new to the whole bank/credit card thing. I've had my debit card for a few years (have used it maybe 5 times), and just last month I got my first credit card (have yet to use it).

I'm wondering what this issue of "me swiping my card" vs "cashier swiping my card" is. What's wrong with them swiping it? What I've interpreted is that this is only an issue with debit cards, is this correct?

Also, any advice for someone as new to this as me?


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

Trose said:


> I'm wondering what this issue of "me swiping my card" vs "cashier swiping my card" is. What's wrong with them swiping it? What I've interpreted is that this is only an issue with debit cards, is this correct?


Most of the technologies that allow people to steal your card info require that it be swiped twice - once for them, once for the legitimate transaction. This is why swiping it yourself is such an essential element of security.



Trose said:


> Also, any advice for someone as new to this as me?


Be viciously protective of your PIN. Even if they get your card info, it is useless without the PIN. And if you set your own PIN, make sure it is something totally random.

GA - The Citizen's Bank fee is easily the lowest in the banking world, and being with a bank affords immense convenience, not the least of which is the ability to cash a pay cheque. Yeah, the banks ding the corporations on the other end, too. That is part of the cost of doing business for them, and some businesses chose not to pay that cost, and not offer interac. They lose my sale, but that is their choice. At least I know that when my bank makes a profit, a significant portion of it goes back out into the community for charitable purposes. I agree the system as a whole is corrupt. Highly. Almost as much so as the insurance business. All we can do, given that we are forced to live with it for the moment, is find the least corrupt aspect of it.


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## GratuitousApplesauce (Jan 29, 2004)

RevMatt said:


> GA - The Citizen's Bank fee is easily the lowest in the banking world, and being with a bank affords immense convenience, not the least of which is the ability to cash a pay cheque. Yeah, the banks ding the corporations on the other end, too. That is part of the cost of doing business for them, and some businesses chose not to pay that cost, and not offer interac. They lose my sale, but that is their choice. At least I know that when my bank makes a profit, a significant portion of it goes back out into the community for charitable purposes. I agree the system as a whole is corrupt. Highly. Almost as much so as the insurance business. All we can do, given that we are forced to live with it for the moment, is find the least corrupt aspect of it.


Pardon my ranting, Rev.  As a small micro-business owner I feel like we get the shaft from this whole system. Bigger businesses do better and of course fold it into their costs. My costs for banking services in general are higher and I can't fold those costs in, if I want to remain somewhat competitive. Those costs come out of my pocket essentially. With some recent increased charges for the various banks and their sub-contractors "solutions", I roughly figure that I pay around 6-8% when I take a CC sale over a cash sale. I'm looking to change my banking arrangements soon and can probably get this down a bit. I know I don't have a good deal now. It used to be an OK deal, but almost every month some new announcement on one of the four statements from my commercial bank accounts and CC sub-contractors makes the deal a little worse.

I'm always amazed when I get into the subject of banking with a customer how understanding they are of the situation of smaller businesses. They often will get cash out of their wallet or find a nearby bank machine. When people hand me their debit card I explain to them that the bank would charge me an arm and leg to take that card. It's not feasible for me to pay those charges for the scale that I'm doing business on. People usually understand and come up with cash or a cheque. I hope that if you wanted to buy something from me, you wouldn't walk because I don't do Interac.

Citizen's Bank was started by VanCity Savings Credit Union here in BC, which has an excellent record of community service. When we were looking for banking service for a non-profit that I'm on the board of, we chose VanCity because they offered us very inexpensive basic banking as a non-profit society. So I could guess that your bank fees are going to help subsidize our non-profit. Thank you.

I would like to see more banks along the lines of Citizen's Bank and VanCity, where profits from a service that is a necessity for everyone in our society are in part given back to help improve that society.


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## Trose (Feb 17, 2005)

RevMatt said:


> Most of the technologies that allow people to steal your card info require that it be swiped twice - once for them, once for the legitimate transaction. This is why swiping it yourself is such an essential element of security.


Oh, that makes a lot more sense now, thanks. But what if when you swipe it yourself, it doesn't work? Refuse to swipe it again?


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## markceltic (Jun 4, 2005)

With all that has been said about interest charges on CC's that is why ever since I got my first card why I never ever carry a balance. For the comments on Interac & how they ding you or gouge I agree with said small business owner as well. For us small fry it's a pill we'd rather not swallow.


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## DoNotPokeTheScreen (Jun 9, 2005)

markceltic said:


> With all that has been said about interest charges on CC's that is why ever since I got my first card why I never ever carry a balance. For the comments on Interac & how they ding you or gouge I agree with said small business owner as well. For us small fry it's a pill we'd rather not swallow.


Isn't it a good thing for your credit ratings to carry a balance? I try to carry as close as 75% of my credit line balance. No more than that. I've had my card for less than 3 months and they already allowed to increase my credit line by 50% a few days ago.


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## miguelsanchez (Feb 1, 2005)

For those who say that their cards were compromised, you may want to read these links:

http://ioerror.livejournal.com/301520.html

http://www.modbee.com/local/story/11828272p-12543509c.html

Apparently, ATM networks in Canada, Russia, and the UK are affected. I just read about this on boingboing.net a few minutes ago.


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

DoNotPokeTheScreen said:


> Isn't it a good thing for your credit ratings to carry a balance? I try to carry as close as 75% of my credit line balance. No more than that. I've had my card for less than 3 months and they already allowed to increase my credit line by 50% a few days ago.


Yes, but it's bad for your wallet, since the balance you carry is what they charge you interest on. If you always pay it off, no interest. Since you carry a balance, of COURSE they allowed you to carry more of one...

GA - if you engaged me in a reasonable conversation about it, I would be very inclined to come back again another time. But you probably would lose my sale that day, or have it postponed. Not out of malice, but because I simply don't carry cash. You are right, though. When I think about it, the few times that I have run into someone who didn't take Interac, if they were polite and iwlling to explain to me why, I didn't hold it against them.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

DoNotPokeTheScreen said:


> Isn't it a good thing for your credit ratings to carry a balance?


I thought so too, but the answer is NO.
Get a copy of your credit report from Equifax or the other credit bureau. The only thing anyone seems to be interested in is if you make your payments punctually - everytime you are late, it counts against you in your credit rating - make every payment on time and your credit rating will be A OK.

I have read somewhere that applying for credit too often affects your rating, but could never confirm if that is really true. The one thing that bothers me is that there doesn't seem to be a way to correct a downgraded rating if your payment is late and it's the lender's fault - seems to be a one-way street.
But I would recommend that everyone gets a copy of their credit report at least once a year - it's free if you request it over the phone; they ding you if you request it via the net.

As to Debit cards - I use them because they are convenient; I don't like carrying too much cash around with me. I always thought the cost of a debit transaction is cheaper for the merchant than a charge card transaction - it's certainly safer for the merchant than a charge card or cash.
To protect myself to some degree, I hace only one account that the debit card is good for and I only keep a minimal amount of money in there - around $200 to $300.-. That way I can't loose more if someone gets a hold of my PIN and card, and these things do happen. I don't find a 4 digit PIN very secure.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

miguelsanchez said:


> For those who say that their cards were compromised, you may want to read these links:
> 
> http://ioerror.livejournal.com/301520.html
> 
> ...


I'm at a loss trying to understand how a merchant could have compromised the system...I didn't think they kept any usable record of the transaction....

You swipe the card in the Interact terminal - it reads your card info and sends it to some central computer.
The debit charge shows up on the terminal
You accept or decline the amount
You select the account - savings or chequing
You punch in your PIN number which is also sent to the central computer
If the PIN matches the debit card info and if you have enough money in your account, the transaction is authorized and the funds transferred from your account to the merchant's account.
The receipt you receive doesn't show the bank account number, or the full debit card number and certainly not the PIN number.

So what info did the merchant have that could be used to make ATM withdrawals? To do that, you need to be able to recreate the info on the magnetic strip AND enter the correct PIN.


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## RevMatt (Sep 10, 2005)

krs said:


> I'm at a loss trying to understand how a merchant could have compromised the system...I didn't think they kept any usable record of the transaction....
> 
> You swipe the card in the Interact terminal - it reads your card info and sends it to some central computer.
> The debit charge shows up on the terminal
> ...


Actually, all the info remains on the local machine until you are done, and then it is all sent at once. Go to a small store that uses dialup for their interac and you can see it in action .



krs said:


> So what info did the merchant have that could be used to make ATM withdrawals? To do that, you need to be able to recreate the info on the magnetic strip AND enter the correct PIN.


You are right, though. Every scam I have ever heard of requires some additional step, usually a hidden video camera of some variety, to get the PIN.


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

Carrying a balance will get the CC companies to increase your balance. To my understanding, it's not good for your credit rating. The credit card companies make more money when you carry a higher balance, and so if you typically carry a high balance, they will increase your limit in the hopes that you spend more.

Paying regularly, however, is. A better strategy to build your credit rating using credit cards would be to buy on your credit card every month and then pay it off each month. 

Of course, some other bills like your cell phone will show up on there too.

Note that if you are applying for something like a mortgage, I would think that carrying a lot of credit card debt *might* hurt you, since the banks in Canada are supposed to try and keep your debt-to-income-ratio within certain bounds.

And in any case, as RevMatt says, less debt is better on your wallet.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

RevMatt said:


> You are right, though. Every scam I have ever heard of requires some additional step, usually a hidden video camera of some variety, to get the PIN.


The latest debit card scam seems a bit scary.
CNN commented briefly on it tonight...there is a lot more on the net.
Basically, the way it is described, the crooks managed to get the tools to decrypt your PIN (and the other info on your magnetic strip), they then just make a duplicate card and can then withdraw money out of your account anywhere in the world.
Seems to me the only protection against that is to have a separate account for your debit transactions and keep as little money in that account as practical. As far as I know there is no legal liability by the bank to reimburse you if you loose money that way - for credit cards your on the hook for $50.- max.


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