# b&w film processing at home



## autopilot (Dec 2, 2004)

anyone else into the whole diy photography thing? i won't be printing at home (can't get the space for a full darkroom) but i'll be processing film at home and want to compare notes.

what developers have you found work for you? fixer? wetting agent?

i'm getting a shopping list together and i'd like some recommendations.


----------



## bryanc (Jan 16, 2004)

*I used to do the whole home-darkroom thing, but now just process film*



autopilot said:


> anyone else into the whole diy photography thing? i won't be printing at home (can't get the space for a full darkroom) but i'll be processing film at home and want to compare notes.
> 
> what developers have you found work for you? fixer? wetting agent?
> 
> I'm getting a shopping list together and i'd like some recommendations.


I just process film now and scan the negatives with a film scanner, obviating the need for a darkroom for printing (I print on an Epson 1280 wide-format ink-jet after processing in Photoshop).

Processing B&W film is trivial. All you need is a dark-bag or genuinely dark closet (for loading the film onto the reals and into the developing tanks) and some cheap and easy-to-use chemistry.

I use T-max film and the Kodak T-max developer (fast and flexible) with Kodak rapid fix. You can buy stop (dirt cheap) or you can make it yourself (3% acetic acid). I buy photoflo, as it lasts forever and is also dirt cheap.

I used to mess around with other developers, and I like microdol, dektol and D-76, but I haven't bothered in a long time. I've started shooting some infrared film and might get back into fooling with developing chemistry at some point, but have very little time at the moment. It's a hell of a lot easier to mess around in photoshop where you can see what effects you're generating than to trial-and-error your way to the effect you want with chemistry.

That being said, my wife and I spend a very happy few hours this afternoon shooting with a pin-hole camera, so I do agree that there's value in experimenting with the 'old ways'.

Cheers


----------



## SkyHook (Jan 23, 2001)

.


----------



## autopilot (Dec 2, 2004)

i have ilford pan f 50 in bulk. haven't seen the results yet...

i tend towards ilford products: i have id11 and ilfosol developer set aside so far. i was thinking of ilfostop for stop bath, ilford rapid fix, and of course photo flo for wetting agent.

i also need some air out bottles and i'm ready to go!

i can make prints at the toronto camera club darkroom down the street. i have photoshop but need a scanner... i want to do the film processing in my own time at home so when i spend an afternoon in the tcc darkroom i can make the most of my time print making.

i shot my first couple of rolls of kodak hie infrared in nz. i had a lab there process the rolls because i didn't want to chance them on the plane. turns out the second roll didn't load properly. the negatives were blank. oh well, chalk it up to experience. we had a lecturer at the club tell us she uses stock d76 for 10 minutes to process hie. but, i found this amazing website (http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.html) and it seems i'll be able to use stuff i have already.


----------



## autopilot (Dec 2, 2004)

oh, and i can't WAIT to see the prints from the holga!


----------



## Rob (Sep 14, 2002)

I've always liked ID-11 diluted 1:2 or greater as a "one shot" developer. There are usually instructions on developing times for different dilutions in the package. This works well for home use since the longer developing times with diluted developers make it easier to get consistent results. "One Shot" means you develop one batch of film and then dump the developer. Full strength developers are usually intended to be replensihed and reused. That's fine for a business that's processing lots of film, but is impractical for home use. You can still use developers full strength but you'll just be wasting more of it.

Keep in mind that most developers are geared towards mechanized processing where time is money. If you run at high temperatures with active developers the processing time is very short. That's why it's so difficult to get good results at home with colour chemicals. With longer developing times errors in time, temperature and agitatation are much less significant.

The good news is that B&W developers are better suited to the do it yourselfer.

Stop bath isn't absolutely necessary but it does help to increase the life of your fixer. The acid in the stop bath neutralizes the develper and stops it's activity. Fixer is also acidic so it will last longer if you use stop bath first. Stop bath is cheap since it is just acetic acid (vinegar). If you use a dilute developer with a longish developing time (say over 10 minutes ) then you could just use a water rinse instead of the stop bath. Most fixers can be reused. Don't throw the fixer away after only one use. Fixers work to completion so time and temperature are not as important as long as you meet the minimum requirements. If you extend the time in the fixer by several minutes it won't hurt the film. In some cases it might even be better if your fixer is partially exhausted from prior use. On the other hand print papers shouldn't be in the fixer too long since it will eventually seep into the paper fibers and becomes far more difficult to wash out. Hence you should always use stop bath with paper to keep your fixer in good shape and minimize wet time.


----------



## GWR (Jan 2, 2003)

I use D76 almost exculsively for all my film developping. T-Max, Tri-X, Ilford Delta, etc. I'm very happy with it. The important thing to remember is to vary as little as possible with the chemicals that you use until you get to know their characteristics. Once you feel that you've gotten to know a certain Dev-fix combination then you can experiment with different chemicals, but if you vary too much it will be difficult to get consistent results. 
Even though the most fun part of B+W is in the printing stage, the most important part is at the negative developping stage. A well developped negative will make printing much more simple. Much less dodging and burning just to get a _decent_ print!
My suggestion, as far as chemistry goes, is just to use whatever is readily available (God knows it's getting harder and harder to find any kind of chemistry these days!), and stick with it. Don't get anything too exotic or you may never be able to find it again and be able to duplicate your results.
I hope this was helpful for you.


----------



## autopilot (Dec 2, 2004)

GWR said:


> I use D76 almost exculsively for all my film developping. T-Max, Tri-X, Ilford Delta, etc. I'm very happy with it. The important thing to remember is to vary as little as possible with the chemicals that you use until you get to know their characteristics. Once you feel that you've gotten to know a certain Dev-fix combination then you can experiment with different chemicals, but if you vary too much it will be difficult to get consistent results.


a VERY good tip, thanks. i find that to be true with films also. i've used rodinal and ilfosol in the club darkroom so far; the ilfosol negs were grainier, which i kind of like. depending on the effect i'm going for, of course...

good tips so far, guys. cheers


----------



## bryanc (Jan 16, 2004)

*I really like Ilford films too*

I can't remember where it is, but I've got a chart that has developing times for various Ilford films using T-max developer. I'm sure you can google it.

I also second the bulk film option. Rolling your own is both easy and it allows you to give yourself extra long, or extra short rolls (I like having short rolls around for 'experiments'). Watch out for extra long rolls though...more than 40 frames won't fit on the developing tank reels I use.

The one big variable I've found somewhat hard to manage for kitchen-sink developing is temperature. Get a good thermometer and check the temperature of your developer before you start, as even a couple of degrees will make a big difference in the developing times. Standard temp is 68F...you can find correction charts on line (if not, PM me and I'll send you a scan of mine).

Cheers


----------



## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

When I was still developing film, I always liked t-max developers, but stopped using it, because I always one shot it, and that gets expensive, so I switched to D-76, it's about the same as ID11, I also used Agfa Rodinal, I thought that gave really pleasing results. Stop I was using Kodak as well, and fix was whatever is the cheapest, usually Agfa, that's good stuff. I finished it off with Kodak Photoflo. Whatever you do, don't use squeegees or your fingers to dry it off, after dunking it in Photoflo or wetting agent, just let it hang. wetting agents won't cause streaks, but squeegees and fingers cause scratches.

And when you're done with your fixer, please don't throw it done the drain. It contains all the silver, and that kills fish, and they can't remove it when it goes to the filtration plant. Just bring it to a lab, they may charge you usually only a few dollars for a lot, but they reclaim the silver so it's safe to dump out.

vicne


----------



## autopilot (Dec 2, 2004)

scootsandludes said:


> I finished it off with Kodak Photoflo. Whatever you do, don't use squeegees or your fingers to dry it off, after dunking it in Photoflo or wetting agent, just let it hang. wetting agents won't cause streaks, but squeegees and fingers cause scratches.


aha, new tip. thanks!



> And when you're done with your fixer, please don't throw it done the drain. It contains all the silver, and that kills fish, and they can't remove it when it goes to the filtration plant. Just bring it to a lab, they may charge you usually only a few dollars for a lot, but they reclaim the silver so it's safe to dump out.


yes. i am going to get old jugs to keep used chemicals. the tcc darkroom keeps everything, but then they go through a larger volume than your average home user. for home use, should i just keep the fixer? i was planning on saving everything for safe disposal...


----------



## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

Dark brown bottles for chemicals (blocks UV light, which eats most of them). Now you know why beer comes in brownies.

Photoflow works well, but it has lots of other uses. Lightly and gently paint the film backing plate with a diluted solution of photoflow, let it dry and no more static marks in winter. Works as good as the usually recommended Downy to kill static buildup on carpet, as well (and doesn't rot the carpet as Downy will).

Highly diluted Photoflow is the main ingredient (distilled water is the other) in Diskwasher disk cleaning fluid for LPs.

One bottle of Kodak Photoflow lasts, I dunno, a lifetime.

I would recommend getting a changing bag for developing film easily at home. Saves a lot of trouble, and there are some tricks you can use to save money with one. For example, if you load your KodaChrome in a changing bag, there's no need to advance the film 2-3 frames like you would after daylight loading. Just get to the first frame that wants to align, close the back and fire away. Unloading in the bag helps to. Good for 40 frames a roll, and prepaid mailiers don't charge more for the "extra" slides. Even if you end up paying (eg if you have prints made with colour negative film), it's always nice to have a few extra frames loaded in the camera.

You can also use infared film (B&W or Colour) if you load and unload in a changing bag. Neat stuff.

You can buy bulk rolls and wind your own film canisters. The commercial canisters (the ones you open when you develop store-bought film) are OK to re-use about 3 times and you can buy canisters made for the purpose if necessary. Inspect the canister for damage on the metal and especially in the light-tight fabric opening and if all is well, re-use them. 

And you can also unload film that's loaded in the camera but not finished yet to change film formulas mid-roll.

Remember to leave the tounge out so you can reload it later, and mark the number of frames taken on the roll. You will need to advance a frame or three past that number before you shoot again on that roll to avoid a misaligned double-exposure on the last old/first new frame.

Finally you can use a changing bag to pop the back mid-roll to fix a problem, like accidentally hitting the rewind lock button, or to fix a roll that doesn't load properly on the sprockets.


----------



## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

autopilot said:


> yes. i am going to get old jugs to keep used chemicals. the tcc darkroom keeps everything, but then they go through a larger volume than your average home user. for home use, should i just keep the fixer? i was planning on saving everything for safe disposal...


Yes, try to keep as much of the fixer as possible, and when you get enough, just bring it in to dump it out.

Also with the wetting agent/photoflo, you can make one batch that will last you forever. Usually like, a few capfuls to a few litres of water, and you can keep reusing it over and over again until it dries out.

vince


----------



## GWR (Jan 2, 2003)

A few people have suggested bulk film. I have never used bulk film and have actually been advised against it because of potential light leaks, scratches, etc. I guess it depends how important the shots you're about to take are compared to the cost savings. Film is cheap anyways. I know that if I had a marriage to shoot I would rely on commercial (pre-loaded) film, and wouldn't risk it with the bulk film. But that being said, I've known many people that used bulk film that they wound themselves (onto reloadable cannisters, never the original film cannisters) without any problems. But personally, with the potential for light leaks and scratches, it's just another "variable" that I would prefer to avoid. Like I said, film is cheap.


----------



## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

> microdol, dektol and D-76


 There's a trip down memory lane. These are exactly the same chemicals I used 30+ years ago when I had a darkroom in my parent's basement.
Re bulk film. One problem I had, from time to time, was that you reuse the film canisters and, though contamination or wear and tear, you could get a bad canister that scratches your film.
I'm sorry this didn't come up a couple of months ago. I was emptying my parent's house and threw out at lease 20 big (2L at least) brown pharmacy bottles that I had in my old darkroom. I couldn't bear to throw out my enlarger, etc., but I doubt I'll be using any of it.


----------



## autopilot (Dec 2, 2004)

nxnw said:


> I'm sorry this didn't come up a couple of months ago. I was emptying my parent's house and threw out at lease 20 big (2L at least) brown pharmacy bottles that I had in my old darkroom. I couldn't bear to throw out my enlarger, etc., but I doubt I'll be using any of it.


anything left?


----------



## GWR (Jan 2, 2003)

Here's a link you might find interesting on building a home darkroom. I know you said you don't have the space, but surprisingly little is needed.

http://www.themassif.com/darkroom.php

Check it out. Having a darkroom at home is much better than going out to do your printing. Though I have to admit that since getting my Mac+Photoshop I do less and less actual darkroom work, this thread is getting me itching to get my hands wet again!


----------



## autopilot (Dec 2, 2004)

GWR said:


> Here's a link you might find interesting on building a home darkroom. I know you said you don't have the space, but surprisingly little is needed.
> 
> http://www.themassif.com/darkroom.php
> 
> Check it out. Having a darkroom at home is much better than going out to do your printing. Though I have to admit that since getting my Mac+Photoshop I do less and less actual darkroom work, this thread is getting me itching to get my hands wet again!


that is a FANTASTIC resource, i have to say.

after my new york trip i may look into investing in an enlarger  i'd love to not be stuck to the club's darkroom schedule!


----------



## nxnw (Dec 22, 2002)

> anything left?


Quite a bit, but I'm attached to it. I might let go of my developing tank (I bought it at Simpsons!) and one of my easels. I think I'll keep my enlarger, trays, tongs...


----------



## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

Hey Autopilot,

I have 2 enlargers. one I bought new 10 years ago, if I sell, I'd probably sell this, it's in mint condition. I can probably let it go for $50. The one that I want to keep is old Durst that I bought for $20 at a photo auction about 5 years ago, only because it was cheaper to buy this then to buy 6x6 neg carrier for my other one.

I'm not desperate to sell it, so I won't be putting it up for sale anytime soon, but if you want it let me know.

vince


----------



## autopilot (Dec 2, 2004)

scootsandludes said:


> Hey Autopilot,
> 
> I have 2 enlargers. one I bought new 10 years ago, if I sell, I'd probably sell this, it's in mint condition. I can probably let it go for $50. The one that I want to keep is old Durst that I bought for $20 at a photo auction about 5 years ago, only because it was cheaper to buy this then to buy 6x6 neg carrier for my other one.
> 
> ...



pm'd you. gimmegimmegimme


----------



## autopilot (Dec 2, 2004)

processed my first 4 rolls this evening! i did not count on how difficult it would be to wind 2 rolls on spools and load them into the tank in a smaller-than-first-thought changing bag. 

2 rolls of pan f and 2 rolls of fp4 plus. have to see what the contact sheets look like, but to me some of the negs look quite good.

melissa = happy


----------



## SkyHook (Jan 23, 2001)

.


----------



## autopilot (Dec 2, 2004)

question: where is a good place to hang drying film and how do you do this? i hung mine up over the bathtub with some wire strung between the showerhead and a towel rail, but obviously this is not a good all-day spot as this area is in use.

no closet space for this, and i don't want to hang it between doorways as my kitten tends to play with anything he can reach.


----------



## scootsandludes (Nov 28, 2003)

using a tub or shower is fine, it's not as good as a dedicated film drying closet but it does the job. Just make sure there isn't a lot of movement in the room, and in a bathroom, that might be hard since there's so much traffic. One tip is to use a humidifier, you want to settle all the dust in the room, and try to keep the cat out of the room, having animal hair on your film can be a PITA.

Oh and don't bother wasting your money of film drying clips, heavy spring paper clips do a much better job, and you can get a load for next to nothing, as oppose to film clips which are usually 2 for $10.

vince


----------

