# Honey vs. Sugar



## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

I've been not feeling to great lately and spending too many nights staying up too late and not sleeping.

I've stocked back up on my liquid minerals and my scorbatate (buffered vitamin c powder) and have now introduced honey into my diet as well as lemon juice

i bought a good, wildflower based honey and am getting some great results
much less bone/joint pains and stiffness and seem to be sleeping better

i did some googling and it seems honey is better for your body than white sugar

anyone have any notes/experiences/articles on honey vs. sugar ?

thanks in advance


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

I generally don't touch white sugar... with stuff like coffees and teas I go either with honey or brown sugar. 

For years now the first thing I drink in the morning is a cup of lemon juice (half a lemon) with some cool filtered water and boiled water... think of the portions in terms of thirds... the end result is a nice warm tonic of a drink that's excellent for kick-starting one's digestive system first thing in the morning. It's also a bonus for adding some Vitamin C, thereby boosting the immune system... especially useful when we're between seasons like this.


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## da_jonesy (Jun 26, 2003)

MMMmmm yes... Tea with Milk and Honey = a little taste of heaven


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

Ahh, the great 'white sugar' myth. White sugar is 99.9% sucrose, that oh-so-sweet stuff. It's chemically pure.

Brown sugar? 94%-97% sucrose. The rest is molasses (coats the sucrose to give that brown colour and flavour).

Honey? Fructose, glucose, maltose, and sucrose. All sugars. There are traces of vitamins and minerals, but nutritionally, these quantities are insignificant.

Sorry to say, but most of the health effects of brown sugar and honey are purely placebo effects. But hey, whatever works for you. I just drink more water and chew on multi-vitamins.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

LOL

Sorry to say, are you? Somehow I doubt it. As for placebos, you do know that most vitamin products cannot be properly absorbed by the body, don't you?

[this is sorta fun - make a grand claim, don't back it up... move on and spot other sniper opportunities - I can see how you might enjoy it]


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

Max said:


> LOL
> 
> Sorry to say, are you? Somehow I doubt it. As for placebos, you do know that most vitamin products cannot be properly absorbed by the body, don't you?
> 
> [this is sorta fun - make a grand claim, don't back it up... move on and spot other sniper opportunities - I can see how you might enjoy it]


Sigh....

White sugar is 99.9% sucrose
Sucrose - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


> Pure sucrose is most often prepared as a fine, white, odorless crystalline powder with a pleasing, sweet taste; the common table sugar.


Brown sugar? 94%-97% sucrose. The rest is molasses.
Canadian Sugar Institute - Sugars and Health


> Brown sugar is not more nutritious than white. In fact, there are no significant nutritional differences between these types of sugars. Brown sugar is composed of white sugar crystals that have been flavoured and coloured by small quantities of dark sugar syrups (molasses).


Brown sugar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


> Brown sugar is a sucrose sugar product with a distinctive brown color due to the presence of molasses. Brown sugar contains from 3.5% molasses (light brown sugar) to 6.5% molasses (dark brown sugar).


Honey? Fructose, glucose, maltose, and sucrose. All sugars. There are traces of vitamins and minerals, but nutritionally, these quantities are insignificant.
Canadian Sugar Institute - Sugars and Health


> Honey, brown sugar, white sugar and maple syrup all have similar nutritional values. They all provide carbohydrate and energy, but insignificant amounts of vitamins and minerals.


Honey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


> Honey is a mixture of sugars and other compounds. With respect to carbohydrates, honey is mainly fructose (about 38.5%) and glucose (about 31.0%), making it similar to the synthetically produced inverted sugar syrup which is approximately 47% fructose, 47% glucose and 5% sucrose. Honey's remaining carbohydrates include maltose, sucrose, and other complex carbohydrates.
> 
> Honey contains trace amounts of several vitamins and minerals. As with all nutritive sweeteners, honey is mostly sugars and is not a significant source of vitamins or minerals.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

There... that wasn't so bad, was it? Yes, I know you're tired. Rest easy now. Better still, pop a vitamin!


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

Honey vs. Sugar; 3 key differences


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Seems to me it is a no brainer than honey must be healthier than sugar.

I mean really folks, man has a hand in sugar production, thus all bad things can happen.

With honey, man is eliminated from the process. How much better can it get than that?


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

apparently boiling honey can rob it of vital properties
is this "pasteurization?"

and is un-pasteurized honey available in Canada?


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

I've seen unpasturized honey at farmer's markets. 

Information for the curious:
WHFoods: Honey


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## MACSPECTRUM (Oct 31, 2002)

something that just came to mind re: honey vs. sugar

Honey = wife
Sugar = mistress

:heybaby: :lmao: :heybaby:


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"... it seems honey is better for your body than white sugar". Michael, nearly anything that is edible is better for you than refined white sugar. 

As for sleep, try a Melatonin tab and drift off to sleep.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Just sugar,,..yeah sure......



> Honey is a biological product with a very complex chemical composition. It is composed primarily of fructose and glucose but also contains ~3 to 4% fructooligosaccharides (FOS) (26Citation ). Even if the quantity of FOS was relatively low in the honey diet, it may have had metabolic effects. These carbohydrates are not hydrolyzed in the small intestine but are degraded in the cecum by the intestinal microflora (27Citation ). This was reflected in the slight but significant increase in the relative weight of the cecum of rats fed the honey diet. In addition, honey has been reported to influence the microflora (28Citation ), which may be beneficial for gut functions and lead to improvements in the general health and lipid metabolism. However, *honey has been reported to contain ~181 substances* (29Citation ) and it is not known whether factors other than FOS may affect the microbes.


http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/106/4/523

and GT you are 65 % water..shall we compare you to a milkshake. ...complexity counts....

Lets see what microtraces involve



> Some of the small ones: microminerals
> 
> Chromium. Trivalent chromium is needed to maintain normal blood-sugar metabolism, acting as partner to insulin, and may be significant in preventing diabetes. Chromium is also involved in enzyme activation, food metabolism and cholesterol regulation. In fact, *it has been shown that a relatively small amount of this trace element improves the 'glucose tolerance' of some people with adult-onset diabetes (diabetes mellitus).*
> 
> ...


and where are they found.....and remarkably they even differ from in honey sources...



> Trace and minor elements in Slovenian honey were analysed by total reflection X-ray fluorescence spectroscopy. Upto 16 elements (K, Cl, S, P, Ca, Mn, Rb, Cu, Fe, Ni, Cr, Br, Ti, Pb, Sr and As) were detected, in a range of average content from 1.24 mg kg-1 for Sr to 2590 mg kg-1 for K. Statistically significant differences were established between different types of honey (acacia, floral, lime, chestnut, spruce, fir, forest and Metcalfa pruinosa honeydew honey). The highest content of elements was determined in forest honey and the lowest in acacia honey. Honeys were also separated according to their botanical origin as nectar honey or honeydew honey. Total elemental content and the content of S, Cl, K and Rb in honeydew honey was statistically significantly higher than in nectar honey. Chestnut honey differed in statistically its significantly higher contents of Rb and Ca from nectar and honeydew honeys. The year of honey production proved to have no statistically significant influence on elemental content. A comparison of our data with the literature data showed a relatively large diversity.


http://www.cababstractsplus.org/google/abstract.asp?AcNo=20053050007

just sugar tho......move on move on nothing to see here....


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

It's really quite silly how much nonsense people make up to support what they want to believe.

Honey Nutrition and Health - Food Reference Honey Nutrition


> Honey is a source of simple carbohydrates. Its composition on average, is 17.1 percent water, 82.4 percent total carbohydrate and 0.5 percent proteins, amino acids, vitamins and minerals. The average carbohydrate content is mainly fructose (38.5 percent) and glucose (31percent). The remaining 12.9 percent of carbohydrates is made up of maltose, sucrose and other sugars.


So, in one tablespoon of honey, there is [CALCULATOR] 1 tbsp = 14.3g x 0.5 % = .072 g or 72mg of proteins, amino acids, vitamins and minerals. [/CALCULATOR]

You'd be better off eating an apple (One medium 2-1/2 inch apple, fresh, raw, with skin):
Calories 81
Carbohydrate 21 grams
Dietary Fiber 4 grams
Calcium 10 mg
Phosphorus 10 mg 
Iron .25 mg
Potassium 159 mg
Vitamin C 8 mg
Vitamin A 73 IU
Folate 4 mcg

You can take a look at the nutrional label of honey here:
SueBee Honey nutrition information - Food Labels - DietFacts.com
1 tbsp of honey = 16g of sugar (16g x 4 calories per gram = 64 calories)

Yes, honey doesn't spike your blood sugar like regular sucrose, but that is only in comparison when dealing with large quantities. If you are comparing the rather small amounts ingested with your coffee or tea, there is negligible difference.

If you are concerned about your health, substituting honey for sugar isn't the way to go. Drop sugar and substitutes all together. Drink your tea without sweetener, then eat an orange.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

And YOU are a bag of water.....what DON'T you comprehend about complex systems.

The nutritional info is a tiny part of the equation.
Every parent with a diabetic kid will tell you how different foods with similar nutrition will impact insulin response. Rapid response you want grape based not orange juice.

It truly IS amazing how simplistic some people are. Go without iodine for a while.....we'll check in on your sore toe.

Skip the Vitamin C for a while.....we'll commiserate as your teeth fall out.

You sound exactly like the English captains that wouldn't believe one small lime would have any impact.


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## JumboJones (Feb 21, 2001)

Most of you dooms day people should be stocking up on honey, it's the only food that doesn't go bad. 

Honey and Spoilage

It is quite interesting, I can see a thousand years from now them finding MD in his bunker with a bunch of mac relics. Even more interesting, the macs will still work and still be the most advanced computing system.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

That's true too- incredible - thousand years even??? Can't recall - some archeology site.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

guytoronto said:


> It's really quite silly how much nonsense people make up to support what they want to believe.


I see it done all the time... 
Wine is pretty much the same chemically all over the world but there are taste differences that do exist. 
Micro traces of elements and the elaboration of elements can affect how it tastes. 
There is also a perception that “natural” is always better. Most don’t know what “natural” is.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

MacDoc said:


> And YOU are a bag of water.....what DON'T you comprehend about complex systems.
> 
> The nutritional info is a tiny part of the equation.
> Every parent with a diabetic kid will tell you how different foods with similar nutrition will impact insulin response. Rapid response you want grape based not orange juice.
> ...


No need to be condescending or attack the other member. The debate is whether honey or sugar is better for you... 
Your points and examples are well made, as usual. Just please leave out the barbs.  

----

I've been on a specific nutrition / exercise program for about a month now. At the begining of the summer, I was ~ 260. After biking etc, I was 238 when I started the program. Now I am down to 221.  

I don't eat that much less, but kind of like SINC was suggesting to, everything I do eat is "Natural." (As much as possible) Naturual to me being, stuff not man made or refined. 

Whole grain breads, fruits, vegatables, meat with a few protein supplements. (Whey)

For a sweetener, I have substitued sugar with honey. Just a little bit in my shakes with plain yogurt, low fat milk etc.

First I've heard of the debate on which is better. Interested to read more.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

MacDoc said:


> You sound exactly like the English captains that wouldn't believe one small lime would have any impact.


It was the Vitamin C in the lime that had the impact - not the lime... beejacon


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## bryanc (Jan 16, 2004)

I find it difficult to take people seriously when they take either extreme position: that purified/refined/highly processed foods are just as good for you as 'natural/whole foods' or that anything that comes from nature is good for you. Both are hopelessly naive positions. Nature is full of terrifically toxic substances, as well as things that are toxic unless properly cooked/processed (Fugu anyone?). Similarly, while we've learned a great deal about what our bodies need and how to get it from cheap resources, there's still lots we don't know, and our evolutionary history has left us with appetites that don't foster the healthiest diet in a modern context.

Some general rules of thumb I try to follow: Diversity in your diet is good, but try to minimize/elimiate animal products. Try to eat less-processed, and locally produced foods, but there's nothing inherently evil about a chocolate bar. When you're eating something you haven't had before, only eat a little bit of it until you've had a few days to discover if your metabolism reacts badly to it. Don't change everything all at once. If you don't like it, don't eat it... life's too short to waste suffering unnecessarily.

Cheers


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

.


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## JumboJones (Feb 21, 2001)

MasterBlaster said:


> Consider Maple Syrup or Molasses.


That's stupid you don't know anything about maple syrup. 

YouTube - Maple Syrup


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## Kazak (Jan 19, 2004)

I see three ads for colon cleansing at the top of the page for this thread. Who knew that some people were so set against punctuation?

I used to add either honey or sugar to my tea, but for the last couple of years I haven't been using either. My placebo effect of choice, though, is to add honey to my tea for a sore throat. Does it do anything? I don't know or care--the important thing is that I think it helps.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> *Harnessing honey's healing power*
> By Angie Knox
> 
> Professor Peter Molan of the Honey Research Unit
> ...


BBC NEWS | Health | Harnessing honey's healing power


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

.


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

The special properties of honey must be from all that bee saliva as well as the bits of bee legs, hair, and wing particles that you _think_ aren't there.


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

> In the hive the bees use their "honey stomachs" to ingest and regurgitate the nectar a number of times until it is partially digested


ref: Honey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Honey is *bee barf*... 

What other vomit can you eat and still feel good about yourself??


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## MissGulch (Jul 20, 2005)

MasterBlaster said:


> Manuka Honey is wonderful stuff.
> 
> Been using it and recommending it for years.
> 
> ...


Manuka honey is medicinal, and considered a true medical product by the New Zealand FDA. I have some in the fridge, and used it in tea when I had a bad throat infection, although its most potent use is on wound infections. 

The best Manuka honey is not so cheap like your supermarket honey. It can cost up to $35 a bottle.


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## Sonal (Oct 2, 2003)

rgray said:


> ref: Honey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Honey is *bee barf*...
> 
> What other vomit can you eat and still feel good about yourself??


Penicillin is mold. What other mold can you eat and have it make you better?


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

Sonal said:


> Penicillin is mold. What other mold can you eat and have it make you better?


Yeah!!! :clap: Cool, huh?


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Blue stinky anyone.


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> It was the Vitamin C in the lime that had the impact - not the lime... beejacon


And limes are a poor source of Vitamin C so when the Royal Navy pursers substituted cheaper limes for more expensive lemons, the tars still got sick... 

Back to the original premise -- if you leave aside the argument about trace nutrients, the idea that honey has less of a carbohydrate/sugar load on the bloodstream is delusional. 

Sugar, Cola, Apple juice, grape juice (the last two often found in 'unsweetened' and '100% juice' fruit drinks) and honey all are huge sources of sugars, and have approximately the same effect on weight gain and insulin reactions.

One other comment: Just because it is found on the Internet or published in a mass-media outlet does not mean that the source of the information is unbiased or credible. There's a big industry in 'research councils' and quasi-independent groups who are funded by industry organizations and covertly push one agenda or another - not to mention self-styled 'nutrition doctors' plugging their own theories.


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

There is some folklore about that suggests that as local honey contains local pollens it can act to desensitise allergies to those pollens. Has anyone noticed this effect? It seems to me that it could just as easily hyper-sensitise.. ???


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

> Try honey to calm children's coughs, says study
> Updated Mon. Dec. 3 2007 7:48 PM ET
> 
> The Associated Press
> ...


Blind controlled test - any more questions....


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

I use Rogers organic cane sugar.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Dirt is good for you


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

MacDoc said:


> > Parents were given a paper bag with a dosing device inside. Some were empty. Some contained an age-appropriate dose of honey-flavored cough medicine containing dextromethorphan. And some contained a similar dose of honey.
> 
> 
> Blind controlled test - any more questions....


This isn't a blind controlled test.

Hmmm...kids and parents are given three options. Nothing, cough syrup, and honey. Honey scores best points? I couldn't have guessed that.


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

MacDoc said:


> Dirt is good for you


Yep, and you're supposed to eat a peck of it before you die. Preferably not all at once.


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

MacDoc said:


> Dirt is good for you





> Eating Dirt
> 
> Ms Susan Aufreiter, the supervisor of the Slowpoke reactor at University of Toronto has investigated some of the dirt eaten in different parts of the world, and found that in some cases dirt might be just what the doctor ordered.


Seems to me this was replayed relatively recently on one of their 'best of's but I can't find the podcast.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Honey heals your wounds...


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Honey has some strange "flow properties" as well.

We had our jars stored up high in a cupboard and few older PATA drives on the shelves below. Each jar was reasonably tightly sealed with a screw on lid and about 90% full.

Over the last 18 months a couple of streams of honey have crawled ( no other word suffices ) up out of the jars, onto the shelf across the shelf down the back wall onto other shelves - flowed laterally across the shelves UP the plastic sides of the drive protector cases and then laterally into the drive case filling every crevice so in the worst case the drive case was sealed all the way around with a honey barrier. 

There must be some evolutionary benefit to this capillary action, maybe sealing the hive in winter. It was quite remarkable tho quite a mess to clean up.

Why and how it would climb the case sides ( about a cm ) which are smooth clear plastic is beyond me.


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

Hmm, I wonder what foodstuffs go well with other older equipment or parts.

Chutney + ADB cables?

Teriyaki sauce + NUBUS cards?

Vinegar + Daystar accelerators?

Miracle Whip + 8" floppies?


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## bryanc (Jan 16, 2004)

The Doug said:


> Hmm, I wonder what foodstuffs go well with other older equipment or parts.


Beer goes with everything. Or you could make a curry... a scorching hot vindeloo works with whatever you've got lying around.... I've got a box of Hollerith Cards with a Fortran program I wrote back in the '70s lying around somewhere... that might make a good start.

Cheers


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

What goes with 30,000 old school data punch cards still kicking around my office? 

These are the stiff paper cards with the punched holes. They have been exposed to enough variation in humidity so (last time I tried) an IBM card reader machine couldn't digest them. This is the first large dataset I ever analysed.

My vote goes for (lots of) beer.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Sounds like a good compost starter


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

MacDoc said:


> Honey has some strange "flow properties" as well.
> 
> We had our jars stored up high in a cupboard and few older PATA drives on the shelves below. Each jar was reasonably tightly sealed with a screw on lid and about 90% full.
> 
> ...


Why do I hear X-files theme music when I read that!


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Tell me about it. Now that I think of it.....

doesn't that LOOK like the face of a BEE!!!!!!


















we may be on to something....hives, disappearing acts.....they're out there.


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## Kazak (Jan 19, 2004)

So long, and thanks for all the, um, pollen.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

*just sugar water eh??*



> *Why 'super honey' is the bees knees for wounds and infections*
> Surgihoney is cost-effective and speeds healing of hard-to-treat injuries. Can it become the ultimate wound-care product?
> 
> The healing powers of honey have been known about for thousands of years. But Surgihoney, whose natural antibacterial properties have been boosted, is proving highly effective at treating infected wounds and superbugs.
> ...


Why 'super honey' is the bees knees for wounds and infections | Rachel Masker | Global development | theguardian.com


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## winwintoo (Nov 9, 2004)

I don't know about super honey, but I have first hand knowledge of messy honey 

I got a big pail of liquid honey and no matter how I tried to deal with it, the stuff dripped and drizzled all over until .........

I was squeezing some catsup from one of those upside down bottles. Eureka!

Put some homey in the microwave for a few seconds to further liquefy it and the funnel it into an empty upside down catsup bottle, no more mess. You squeeze out just the right amount of honey every time and there's no drips down the side of the container.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

winwintoo said:


> I was squeezing some catsup from one of those upside down bottles. Eureka!
> 
> Put some homey in the microwave for a few seconds to further liquefy it and the funnel it into an empty upside down catsup bottle, no more mess. You squeeze out just the right amount of honey every time and there's no drips down the side of the container.


That is exactly why I only buy this brand of honey now. Upside down no-mess container ready to go.


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## winwintoo (Nov 9, 2004)

SINC said:


> That is exactly why I only buy this brand of honey now. Upside down no-mess container ready to go.


And here I thought I had an original idea 

I had not seen those in the store, but honey in the store has gotten so expensive. I got a 3 liter pail for $21 from a gal who visits up north.


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