# Why Do So Many People Fail to Back Up?



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

I know the 'backup' threads have been posted almost Ad nauseam at ehmac and elsewhere, but Tidbits recent email seems to suggest many still don't do or have at least a backup of any personal or needed data backup(s), nor have many users that I know of that do, even checked that their backup is current or even works.

I only know of one elderly lady that neither saves nor keeps *any*, even personal data, which I would guess is an exception.

So the tidbit article may help other more normal Mac users:

TidBITS: Why Do So Many People Fail to Back Up?

And from my experience for those that just and only rely on 'Time Machine', I'd agree with their, and others, comments on the 'iffy' reliability of Time Machine.

Gheese, I even have an appointment with a busy volunteer Mac user to fix her problems on Wednesday, and when I asked with our phone call if she had a current working backup for all her volunteer work data, she didn't know. So following my directions, she checked her TM "backup" on her expensive over-sold Time Capsule for her use, and she said the TM Pref Pane said that no backup drive volume was even available, and a notation that that her last TM backup had been completed in Sept 2012!! And no sign of her Time Capsule access anywhere.

So folks, or at least for those that don't realize the importance of a *good, current updated and working backup*, when was the last time you checked your backup??

End of my sermon, and I have harped for years, and I no longer shed a tear when ones data goes poof!!


----------



## IllusionX (Mar 10, 2009)

I only rely on TM. It has not failed me once. But i do restart it fresh every year or so.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

CCC every morning at 6 am.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

CCC twice daily on two different drives, one stored off site. Time Machine daily overnight on third drive.


----------



## macintosh doctor (Mar 23, 2009)

IllusionX said:


> I only rely on TM. It has not failed me once. But i do restart it fresh every year or so.


+1




Macfury said:


> CCC every morning at 6 am.


+1

can never have too many copies of priceless data.. also how much is your time worth?
how long can your business be down? most business fail if they dont have access to their data..

8 years ago.. I lost 2 weeks worth of invoicing .. lucky for me, i had email copies so I reentered the data manually.. 

ever since then, I have it in the cloud, on DVD, on HD x 2.. 
with space being so cheap can you afford to be cheap? 

Ever since I have been preaching my experience and back up to everyone.. Sadly the message is only reaching 40%.. the other 60% need to experience the loss so they know what the value / cost of down time is.. 
Most people believe in [ it will never happen to me - which can prove deadly. ]


----------



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

pm-r said:


> And from my experience for those that just and only rely on 'Time Machine', I'd agree with their, and others, comments on the 'iffy' reliability of Time Machine.
> 
> Gheese, I even have an appointment with a busy volunteer Mac user to fix her problems on Wednesday, and when I asked with our phone call if she had a current working backup for all her volunteer work data, she didn't know. So following my directions, she checked her TM "backup" on her expensive over-sold Time Capsule for her use, and she said the TM Pref Pane said that no backup drive volume was even available, and a notation that that her last TM backup had been completed in Sept 2012!! And no sign of her Time Capsule access anywhere.


Time Machine is not "iffy." It's not flawless, but neither is any backup solution, technically speaking. It is the end user's responsibility to check from time to time that their backup solution is actually working - not just set it and forget it. There are any number of reasons why her Time Capsule could have stopped working properly.

I've never had a problem with Time Machine myself, dating back to Mac OS X Leopard days when it was first introduced, and it is my only backup.

To answer the original question, this is what I hear most commonly: "Because Macs are known to be reliable and don't break."


----------



## jamesB (Jan 28, 2007)

A very useful little Dashboard App to keep tabs on Time Machine activity is "TIME MACHINE BUDDY"
I use this myself, but I also run a script that keeps a "live" update of my TM log in the bottom corner of my monitor. I can see instantly if things are working or if there are any errors.
Then of course there are my daily and weekly CC Clones. (who me, paranoid?) :yikes:


----------



## Kleles (Jul 21, 2009)

I do not use TM. I backup all my data/info once a month to an external hard drive. More particularly, I backup financial and professional data (almost) daily, and my iPhoto library is backed up on an irregular basis, on average about once every two months. When we return from a trip with hundreds of images, I backup all the SD cards onto DVDs before loading them into iPhoto. So, for much of this I have redundant backups.

My major shortcoming is that I do not store any of the above off-site. If my house burned down, it would all be lost. Perhaps I should backup to the 'cloud' as well. It seems though, that clouds are quite ephemeral and insecure.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Kleles said:


> My major shortcoming is that I do not store any of the above off-site. If my house burned down, it would all be lost. Perhaps I should backup to the 'cloud' as well. It seems though, that clouds are quite ephemeral and insecure.


They aren't really ephemeral. It's still based on physical storage devices. But even if you thought that the cloud was occasionally unstable, the chances of it being unstable on the day of a house fire are pretty astronomical.


----------



## crawford (Oct 8, 2005)

51 percent of respondents to a recent survey believe stormy weather can interfere with cloud computing.

(Not directed at Kleles, but the remark about the ephemeral nature of online backup reminded me of that bit of trivia)


----------



## ldphoto (Jul 9, 2009)

I use a Mac Mini home server as the destinaiton for Time MAchine backups from my computer and my wife's. If a backup has not occured in the last x number of days (I can specify x), the server automatically alerts me. The server itself also does TM backups of everything on a local drive array.

I also keep all finished product (mostly processed photos) and important documents backup up with CrashPlan to CrashPlan central (unlimited storage) I'm very grateful that Teksavvy does not count upload traffic in their data cap. I upload many hundreds of gigabytes to Crashplan on a monthly basis.

More than hardware failures, unintentional deletion of files by users is the biggest reason to have a good backup in my opinion. It often happens, even to the most diligent among us


----------



## HenriHelvetica (Oct 4, 2011)

this is wild. I have had a few crises from a sudden failure to who knows what.... but I was able to simply grab a new HD and pow. In fact, I have a 2nd lap that I also back up - even though I don't use it anywhere near as much a before. It was an old (ready very old - PATA !), and I simply used BackUp and boom. 

Not sure how anyone not backing up can offered to do so. HD prices @ lowest - free software, and happens in your sleep. 

what's not to like?


----------



## Kleles (Jul 21, 2009)

crawford said:


> 51 percent of respondents to a recent survey believe stormy weather can interfere with cloud computing.
> 
> (Not directed at Kleles, but the remark about the ephemeral nature of online backup reminded me of that bit of trivia)


I appreciate your largesse, Crawford. I'm always intrigued by the emergence of metaphors that are oxymorons. Thinking of off-site storage I would consider metaphors closer to what people want or expect, for example, rocks, vaults, foundations, mineshaft, granite, _etc._ As someone pointed out to me, we already use the 'cloud' when we use the internet.


----------



## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Cloud storage is a great idea as long as you are comfortable with the NSA in the Paranoid State of America having warrantless access to your files.

Yep even Apple is admits handing over at about the rate of 1000 a month.


----------



## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

crawford said:


> 51 percent of respondents to a recent survey believe stormy weather can interfere with cloud computing.


H L Menken (b. 1880) said "No one in this world has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people."


----------



## ldphoto (Jul 9, 2009)

eMacMan said:


> Cloud storage is a great idea as long as you are comfortable with the NSA in the Paranoid State of America having warrantless access to your files.
> 
> Yep even Apple is admits handing over at about the rate of 1000 a month.


That's why it's a good idea to independently encrypt files that will go in cloud storage. TrueCrypt is free and works quite well.


----------



## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

I have a daily (3:30 AM) SuperDuper backup, a weekly SD backup and a whenever-I'm-away-from-home backup on a 2.5" Hitachi Touro drive that goes with me. I keep meaning to set up a TM backup too, but so far haven't.

I also have all most of my files on my MBP - and update them from my Mac Pro regularly.

Those cloned backups have saved my bacon several times.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

I've mentioned in other threads my challenges in supporting a colleague who simply cannot get backing up into this brain. This is after two total laptop drive failures that cost him enormous amounts of work (including a book that he was about to submit to his publisher - no backups anywhere of that file).

In the end, I convinced him to replace his cable company's Wireless router with an Apple Time Capsule. Going on a year now and his backups are automatic whenever he's connected to the WiFi at his home... never has to think about it. Sure, there's no redundancy nor off-site backup but it's a helluvalot more than he had while flying without a net.

*His version:*










*Apple's newest version:*


----------



## jamesB (Jan 28, 2007)

That new version of the Time Capsule has to be the ugliest ever!!!


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

jamesB said:


> That new version of the Time Capsule has to be the ugliest ever!!!


+1!!

I really have to emphatically agree with jamesB, that both the latest AirPort Time Capsule and AirPort Extreme Base Station have to be some of the ugliest butt ugly Apple designs ever!!

I couldn't believe the image on the post and thought is was some sort of sick joke!! Sorry Apple, just plain bad and I'd suggest stupid design as well.   

I'm sure Steve would be rolling in his grave.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

CubaMark said:


> I've mentioned in other threads my challenges in supporting a colleague who simply cannot get backing up into this brain. This is after two total laptop drive failures that cost him enormous amounts of work (including a book that he was about to submit to his publisher - no backups anywhere of that file).
> 
> In the end, I convinced him to replace his cable company's Wireless router with an Apple Time Capsule. Going on a year now and his backups are automatic whenever he's connected to the WiFi at his home... never has to think about it. Sure, there's no redundancy nor off-site backup but it's a helluvalot more than he had while flying without a net.
> 
> ... ...


Has he or anyone actually checked that it's all working and current?


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Eek, I really didn't think it was that bad at all.


----------



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

groovetube said:


> Eek, I really didn't think it was that bad at all.


+1; the new base stations really aren't _that_ bad looking. Plus, they're tall for functionality reasons, not just because they're supposed to look pretty that way.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

OK. I'll concede a bit that the new design certainly has some merit and some nice improvements when I got around to actually reading about it and Apple's reasons:

Apple - Mac - AirPort Time Capsule

Plus the fact that I'll admit that I haven't even seen one in real life.


----------



## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

pm-r said:


> OK. I'll concede a bit that the new design certainly has some merit and some nice improvements when I got around to actually reading about it and Apple's reasons:
> 
> Apple - Mac - AirPort Time Capsule
> 
> Plus the fact that I'll admit that I haven't even seen one in real life.



:lmao::lmao: so typical


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

broad said:


> :lmao::lmao: so typical



What?

Some of Apple's recent radical design changes??

Your replies and comment posts are just so constructive!!


----------



## vancouverdave (Dec 14, 2008)

People don't backup their data because the optimism bias influences their effort/risk assessments.

Optimism Bias: Tali Sharot: The optimism bias | Video on TED.com

I personally use Time Machine (nightly to a cheap NAS), CCC (daily to a cheap USB drive), and favourite photos also find their way to Flickr and Shutterfly. Email and contacts are in GMail. Passwords are in LastPass.

I also use DropBox andSpiderOak, but only for convenience, not for backup.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

pm-r said:


> Has he or anyone actually checked that it's all working and current?


Yup... though not as frequently as he should, I'm sure. In December he was on an international flight and a glass of white wine found its way into his MacBook Air. Upon landing, he bought another MBA, but the other was DOA for a data transfer (would have been possible, I think, but he wouldn't have known how / where to go, and he was on a tight timeline for a conference presentation).

Upon returning to Canada, he restored the last TIme Capsule backup to his new machine, bringing him up-to-date as far as the night before his flight.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

My HD became corrupted the other day. I hadn't even realized that I was booting from my cloned drive, except that the work was four hours old. Nicely fixed the HD with Disk Utility and back in business within minutes.Trouble catches up with every drive eventually.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

CubaMark said:


> Yup... though not as frequently as he should, I'm sure. ... ... ...
> Upon returning to Canada, he restored the last TIme Capsule backup to his new machine, bringing him up-to-date as far as the night before his flight.


And all thanks to you for getting his proper backup in place. I sure hope he appreciates it.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Macfury said:


> My HD became corrupted the other day. I hadn't even realized that I was booting from my cloned drive, except that the work was four hours old. Nicely fixed the HD with Disk Utility and back in business within minutes.Trouble catches up with every drive eventually.



Watch out for that alternate cloned volume booting, as I got a help call from a user that was missing some emails he swore that he had not deleted.

What seemed to be happening that at times he was booting from his CCC clone, and other times from his normal boot volume, and I just suspected that was due to his possible PEBKAC problem.

And what seemed to be happening was that his Email client app and its POP account settings were set to 'delete emails from server when downloaded'.

So when he booted into his alternate boot volume, such 'deleted' email messages were not available.

Yes, it was a bit of a head scratcher problem.


----------



## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

FWIW I change the desktop on my log-in, admin, and personal user, profiles before I run a clone or disk image, then change back once the process is complete. Takes a few seconds and if I see a generic desk-top at the log-in stage I know right away I am not booted into my main HD.

That said I use the option key during boot, when I want to start-up from a secondary volume. Have never had an accidental boot into a secondary boot volume but it could happen if the primary were experiencing problems.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

jamesB said:


> That new version of the Time Capsule has to be the ugliest ever!!!



Say jamesB, if you haven't seen one in real life form, don't mention it or broad will likely chew your A$$ off as did me, just as he so typically does with too many of his reply-posts!!

And yes, I still think it and the new AirPort Extreme are a bit ugly, but why I wondered why it had basically the same dimensions as my previous model AirPort Express, yet it had to be 6" taller. Why?

So I found out why at the teardown at:
AirPort Extreme A1521 Teardown - iFixit

And I chucked a bit with their description:

Spoiler alert: it's TALL. The winner of this year's "tallest wireless router that is white, roughly rectangular, and has an Apple logo on top" award 

But hey, besides all the vertical circuitry, what's this at their Step 5:

We free the top cover, only to find…3.5" of empty space.
While the AirPort Extreme doesn't come equipped with storage, we dug up a standard 3.5" SATA hard drive, just to test it out. Perfecto!
This could potentially be good news to DIYers who want to turn their AirPort Extreme into a Time Capsule—except we can't find any connectors where we'd plug in the hard drive, only empty spaces on the logic board. But we'll keep our fingers crossed until we've had the chance to crack open a Time Capsule.

So it looks like if you can get a 2TB or 3TB 2'5" SATA drive for less than $100.00 or $200.00, you've not got a new equivalent AirPort Time Capsule for less than Apple's new Time Capsule, or just use a spare drive and drop it in.

Disassembly is rated at 8/10, not bad. 

Now I know why it so tall, and I figured it must be more than just six tall antennas, which don't even exist. It just has a metal plate acting as the new-and-improved antenna array.

I guess with all the improvements it makes it a bit less ugly, but I don't have any Macs that will or can support its new 802.11ac.


----------



## IllusionX (Mar 10, 2009)

Its got a fan. It is calling for fan failure and noise!


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

IllusionX said:


> Its got a fan. It is calling for fan failure and noise!



Yes, I was quite surprised to see that, especially as just a router.

I guess it's cheaper to mass produce them and keep the fan in as the Time Capsule will not doubt need a fan to help keep the HD cool. I would have thought that Jony Ive's design team might have just used a finned aluminum extrusion for the case for cooling.

But I don't believe the previous Consoles had a fan, but were prone to overheating, especially when people piled paper and books on top of them - one of the reasons for the design of the original space capsule Airports, so nothing could be placed on top.


----------



## ldphoto (Jul 9, 2009)

It also looks like the antennas use the full height of the unit, which would improve gain and beam-forming capabilities. Unfortunately, compact size does not go hand-in-hand with improved wireless performance.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

ldphoto said:


> It also looks like the antennas use the full height of the unit, which would improve gain and beam-forming capabilities. Unfortunately, compact size does not go hand-in-hand with improved wireless performance.


Nope. Just the "Beamforming antenna array" at the top.

The vertical wires are just to connect to the top mounted antenna.

As the take-apart article shows and the key word from their description of its Beamforming antenna array seems to be "Beamforming".

Quite an advanced type of antenna it seems when I looked it up to find what it is and what it did. Not exactly your average router antenna.


----------



## jamesB (Jan 28, 2007)

pm-r said:


> but were prone to overheating, especially when people piled paper and books on top of them - one of the reasons for the design of the original space capsule Airports, so nothing could be placed on top.


I take advantage of my Airport extreme every spring, on top of which is where I start my seedlings, they do very well with the added 24 hour bottom heat.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

jamesB said:


> I take advantage of my Airport extreme every spring, on top of which is where I start my seedlings, they do very well with the added 24 hour bottom heat.


Hmmm..., funny, but methinks you may be flirting with Airport damage/failure!!

You'd be better off using a small watt light bulb in an empty large coffee tin as some of our Wet Coast boaters due to ward off some dampness.

Or why not a small electric propagating mat? They're not very expensive and much safer, or maybe even a heating pad on low heat??


----------



## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

pm-r said:


> While the AirPort Extreme doesn't come equipped with storage, we dug up a standard 3.5" SATA hard drive, just to test it out. Perfecto!
> This could potentially be good news to DIYers who want to turn their AirPort Extreme into a Time Capsule—except we can't find any connectors where we'd plug in the hard drive, only empty spaces on the logic board. But we'll keep our fingers crossed until we've had the chance to crack open a Time Capsule.
> 
> So it looks like if you can get a 2TB or 3TB 2'5" SATA drive for less than $100.00 or $200.00, you've not got a new equivalent AirPort Time Capsule for less than Apple's new Time Capsule, or just use a spare drive and drop it in.


Huh? How did folks at iFixit go from "we couldn't find any connectors" on the logic board to "just use a spare drive and drop it in"?? Do they think maybe they'll just...grow connectors if you close the drive and the router in an enclosed space together?  

Methinks unless you're very handy with a soldering iron, have the connectors handy and don't much care if you mess everything up/void your warranty AND you really know what you're doing, you might be better off with a Time Capsule or an external (network) drive.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Paddy said:


> Huh? How did folks at iFixit go from "we couldn't find any connectors" on the logic board to "just use a spare drive and drop it in"?? Do they think maybe they'll just...grow connectors if you close the drive and the router in an enclosed space together?
> 
> Methinks unless you're very handy with a soldering iron, have the connectors handy and don't much care if you mess everything up/void your warranty AND you really know what you're doing, you might be better off with a Time Capsule or an external (network) drive.



Just maybe why as they said:

_... could potentially be good news to DIYers who want to turn their AirPort Extreme into a Time Capsule—except we can't find any connectors where we'd plug in the hard drive, only empty spaces on the logic board. But we'll keep our fingers crossed until we've had the chance to crack open a Time Capsule._

Notice their words, _*"... could potentially" ...*_


----------



## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

pm-r said:


> Just maybe why as they said:
> 
> _... could potentially be good news to DIYers who want to turn their AirPort Extreme into a Time Capsule—except we can't find any connectors where we'd plug in the hard drive, only empty spaces on the logic board. But we'll keep our fingers crossed until we've had the chance to crack open a Time Capsule._
> 
> Notice their words, _*"... could potentially" ...*_


Yes - saw that. It's the _way_ they said it: "*could potentially be good news to DIYers....except we can't find any connectors*"... and then they jump (in the next paragraph) to: "So it looks like if you can get a 2TB or 3TB 2'5" SATA drive for less than $100.00 or $200.00, you've not got a new equivalent AirPort Time Capsule for less than Apple's new Time Capsule, *or just use a spare drive and drop it in*."(sic) (the "not" should no doubt be a "now")

First they make it sound possible, then rule it out (lack of connectors) and then leap to just "drop in" a spare drive. Somehow, I don't think the crossing of fingers when looking at the new Time Capsule's innards is going to solve the problem of no connectors on the logic board of the Airport/voiding the warranty/messing things up. 

Sorry - my inner copy editor escaped for a bit there. (Two years working at a newspaper will do that to you)


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Paddy said:


> Yes - saw that. It's the _way_ they said it: "*could potentially be good news to DIYers....except we can't find any connectors*"... and then they jump (in the next paragraph) to: "So it looks like if you can get a 2TB or 3TB 2'5" SATA drive for less than $100.00 or $200.00, you've not got a new equivalent AirPort Time Capsule for less than Apple's new Time Capsule, *or just use a spare drive and drop it in*."(sic) (the "not" should no doubt be a "now")
> 
> First they make it sound possible, then rule it out (lack of connectors) and then leap to just "drop in" a spare drive. Somehow, I don't think the crossing of fingers when looking at the new Time Capsule's innards is going to solve the problem of no connectors on the logic board of the Airport/voiding the warranty/messing things up.
> 
> Sorry - my inner copy editor escaped for a bit there. (Two years working at a newspaper will do that to you)



I think if you check what you're referring to and the comment to the "... So it looks like if you can get a 2TB or 3TB 2'5" SATA drive for less than $100.00 or $200.00,..." comment came from my post and NOT from the ifixit take apart site.


----------



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

No one will be modifying an AirPort Extreme to take a drive, so the entire discussion is moot. A good 2TB 3.5" drive is at least a hundred or more (2TB WD Black is $169), meaning modifying the AirPort Extreme is more expensive than buying a 2TB Time Capsule in the first place. ($199 + $169 + manual labour + cables vs. $299...).


----------



## jamesB (Jan 28, 2007)

pm-r said:


> Hmmm..., funny, but methinks you may be flirting with Airport damage/failure!!


Damage, I think not, actually it's probably extending the AP Extreme's life by sinking some of the heat off.
Either way I've been using it this way for enough years that even it it were to fail now it would owe me nothing and I'd look forward to a newer model, just not the newest butt ugly release.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

jamesB said:


> Damage, I think not, actually it's probably extending the AP Extreme's life by sinking some of the heat off.
> Either way I've been using it this way for enough years that even it it were to fail now it would owe me nothing and I'd look forward to a newer model, just not the newest butt ugly release.


Your choice jamesB, but if you're using some metal plate as a propagating mat on top of your AP Extreme, as you say, you just may be aiding it's cooling and wireless range etc. Actually quite a neat idea. 

I bought an AP Express last fall with Apple's Black Friday sale, to replace our earlier white version that's now connected to our 5:1 receiver to play iTunes radio and stuff, and the later recent Apple AP Express has to be one of the best computer type purchase choices I have ever made.

Would I purchase any of Apple's latest and tall AP products?? - no bloody way. Besides they'd probably be too cool with their included fan to be even considered for any sort of heat source for any plant propagating!!!

What a neat setup you might have, but maybe check your AP Extreme's heat temp.

BTW: Are you currently using it to grow fresh been sprouts etc. or maybe for a small yogurt production area??


----------



## zen.state (Nov 29, 2005)

Most people need to lose important data at least once before they truly learn to backup. I do data recovery for some clients and nothing speaks louder than loss. Using something like Disk Drill can recover seemingly lost data from seemingly dead drives more often than not. 

I backup everything at least twice and extremely important stuff 3-4 times.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

zen.state said:


> Most people need to lose important data at least once before they truly learn to backup. I do data recovery for some clients and nothing speaks louder than loss. Using something like Disk Drill can recover seemingly lost data from seemingly dead drives more often than not.
> 
> I backup everything at least twice and extremely important stuff 3-4 times.


Yup, but....

Hmmm...??? Are you associated with the Disk Drill software or developers perhaps?

Not exactly the best user's comments for it at:
https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/35373/disk-drill

And I don't know of any Mac software app that can recover any data from any really dead non-working, non-mounting drive without using some sort of physical switching and/or the use of some clean room.


----------



## zen.state (Nov 29, 2005)

pm-r said:


> Yup, but....
> 
> Hmmm...??? Are you associated with the Disk Drill software or developers perhaps?
> 
> ...


Are you associated with all the software you like and recommend? I am a direct support developer for OpenBSD cluster systems and have no association with any Mac software company.

Do you really take reviews on macupdate as gospel? It's pretty sad if you do. Do you really need a bunch of Apple fanboy pointy clicky monkeys to tell you what is good rather than try it and decide for yourself? 

Disk Drill works miracles in my experience. I have seen it recover drives that were about 90% dead. I have been using it for a couple years and it succeeds far more than it fails. Any drive that doesn't mount in the finder almost always shows up and is recoverable in DD.

Any other preconceived ignorance you want to inject into this conversation? You really like to make assumptions and pretend you know things. It's a very undesirable quality I can assure you. 

Whats next? Are you going to say bad things about Burnaby again? 

Go read more macupdate reviews and eat a banana.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

zen.state said:


> Most people need to lose important data at least once before they truly learn to backup. I do data recovery for some clients and nothing speaks louder than loss. Using something like Disk Drill can recover seemingly lost data from seemingly dead drives more often than not.
> 
> I backup everything at least twice and extremely important stuff 3-4 times.


In my experience, try anything, with the least harmful methods first. I have had a dead disk that refused all software approaches, but gave forth its contents when placed inside a Firewire enclosure.

DiskDrill could not read that disk, however it just recently saved a file I accidentally deleted from a USB key.


----------



## zen.state (Nov 29, 2005)

Macfury said:


> In my experience, try anything, with the least harmful methods first. I have had a dead disk that refused all software approaches, but gave forth its contents when placed inside a Firewire enclosure.
> 
> DiskDrill could not read that disk, however it just recently saved a file I accidentally deleted from a USB key.


It makes no logical sense that the drive would not work as bare but would with a firewire bridge. A corrupted data state can be very unpredictable though so I guess it isn't that illogical. 

I typically use a dual SATA drive dock I have with DD.

The one true sin in the drive industry these days are the WD 2.5" that are strait to USB. No SATA and/or bridge. Such things are technical immoralities in my mind.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

zen.state said:


> It makes no logical sense that the drive would not work as bare but would with a firewire bridge. A corrupted data state can be very unpredictable though so I guess it isn't that illogical.


I agree it's illogical. And yet the disk spat out everything that it had refused to give up before. This is why I say, move in small steps from the logical to the illogical.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

zen.state said:


> Are you associated with all the software you like and recommend? I am a direct support developer for OpenBSD cluster systems and have no association with any Mac software company.
> 
> Do you really take reviews on macupdate as gospel? It's pretty sad if you do. Do you really need a bunch of Apple fanboy pointy clicky monkeys to tell you what is good rather than try it and decide for yourself?
> 
> ...



Gheese zen.state, I just asked if you happened to work or were directly connected to Disk Drill. What you posted sounded a bit like DD advertising copy to me.

But gee, if DD can actually recover data from a "dead drive" as you say, one would think it would have put data recovery companies like Drive Savers etc. out of business.

But from what you say, it sounds like a very interesting and could be a very useful application.

And BTW, what and when did I ever say anything bad about Burnaby?


----------



## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

zen.state said:


> Are you associated with all the software you like and recommend? I am a direct support developer for OpenBSD cluster systems and have no association with any Mac software company.
> 
> Do you really take reviews on macupdate as gospel? It's pretty sad if you do. Do you really need a bunch of Apple fanboy pointy clicky monkeys to tell you what is good rather than try it and decide for yourself?
> 
> ...


:lmao:


----------



## zen.state (Nov 29, 2005)

pm-r said:


> Gheese zen.state, I just asked if you happened to work or were directly connected to Disk Drill. What you posted sounded a bit like DD advertising copy to me.
> 
> But gee, if DD can actually recover data from a "dead drive" as you say, one would think it would have put data recovery companies like Drive Savers etc. out of business.
> 
> ...


Your reply seemed a bit passive aggressive so I replied accordingly. 

You have made knocks toward Burnaby in the past and just out of the blue. It was something about not wanting to come here so you wouldn't get stabbed. In my experience you have a history of passive aggressive stuff like this. 

Unlike most people I do not promote the use of something unless it has some level of technical ethics and true capability.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

zen.state said:


> Your reply seemed a bit passive aggressive so I replied accordingly.
> 
> You have made knocks toward Burnaby in the past and just out of the blue. It was something about not wanting to come here so you wouldn't get stabbed. In my experience you have a history of passive aggressive stuff like this.
> 
> Unlike most people I do not promote the use of something unless it has some level of technical ethics and true capability.




Sorry zen.state, my post was certainly not meant to be " a bit passive aggressive".

And as for any derogatory remarks about Burnaby, I think you may be confusing me with another poster. Heck, I don't even have *any* such thoughts against Burnaby, so I sure and heck wouldn't have even typed any such thing.


----------



## greensuperman32 (Mar 28, 2005)

I back up anything important to me on an external drive as needed and use Dropbox and Google Drive as well as a Corsair Survivor series USB drive on my keychain for all my school work as well partly as another backup and so I can easily access them from any machine making it so I never forget a project at home on my desktop.


----------



## zen.state (Nov 29, 2005)

pm-r said:


> Sorry zen.state, my post was certainly not meant to be " a bit passive aggressive".
> 
> And as for any derogatory remarks about Burnaby, I think you may be confusing me with another poster. Heck, I don't even have *any* such thoughts against Burnaby, so I sure and heck wouldn't have even typed any such thing.


I found it. From last May:

"Burnaby BC = almost the middle of the BC pure 'gold' area. If you don't get shot first and like or want to live there."

From this post:
http://www.ehmac.ca/anything-mac/100272-rogersonenumber-anyone-use-comments-2.html#post1193060


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

zen.state said:


> I found it. From last May:
> 
> "Burnaby BC = almost the middle of the BC pure 'gold' area. If you don't get shot first and like or want to live there."
> 
> ...



What's your point and what I wrote was based on fact and all the brazen shootings, stray bullets, even in broad daylight including malls and restaurants that had been occurring there during that time, and before and after.

I know a fellow who was living there and he mentioned several times how concerned he was for himself and his family and their kids. He said he felt they were almost in the center of it all, was planning on moving but couldn't find a place to live that they could afford.

I believe they finally found a place and they moved out of Burnaby, mainly due to all the shootings and stray bullets that were happening there.


----------



## zen.state (Nov 29, 2005)

pm-r said:


> What's your point and what I wrote was based on fact and all the brazen shootings, stray bullets, even in broad daylight including malls and restaurants that had been occurring there during that time, and before and after.
> 
> I know a fellow who was living there and he mentioned several times how concerned he was for himself and his family and their kids. He said he felt they were almost in the center of it all, was planning on moving but couldn't find a place to live that they could afford.
> 
> I believe they finally found a place and they moved out of Burnaby, mainly due to all the shootings and stray bullets that were happening there.


You're truly out of your mind if you think one event in the 3rd largest city in BC speaks for the whole city. I live in west-central Burnaby near BCIT and have since early 2006. Never once have I ever not felt safe. 

If you actually knew anything about Burnaby you would know that it's more forrest and lakes than houses and people.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

zen.state said:


> You're truly out of your mind if you think one event in the 3rd largest city in BC speaks for the whole city. I live in west-central Burnaby near BCIT and have since early 2006. Never once have I ever not felt safe.
> ... ... ...



"*ONE* event"???

Good grief man, just do a web search on 'Burnaby BC 2012 shooting' in case you missed the others, and you may get an idea why the fellow I mentioned was so concerned.

But no doubt he lived in a different area, and I will say that Burnaby does have some very nice areas that I've seen, but you obviously have a very different view and outlook attitude than the other fellow did.

Anyway, this isn't even Mac related which you seemed to have objected to with your first post in that other thread you referred to, but I'm glad to hear that you enjoy living there where YOU live.


----------



## jamesB (Jan 28, 2007)

Man O man,
here is a link to a shooting right on BCIT campus,
What's the world coming to?


----------



## tompatrick (Oct 14, 2011)

Still I prefer to clone hard drive, make bootable as well as minimal system copies. TM is good enough but again I dont know how to boot from TM. Mac Geniuses please let me know if it is possible to make a bootable time machine copy?


----------



## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

which OS are you running? older TM backups are not bootable...newer ones are.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

tompatrick said:


> Still I prefer to clone hard drive, make bootable as well as minimal system copies. TM is good enough but again I dont know how to boot from TM. Mac Geniuses please let me know if it is possible to make a bootable time machine copy?



Nope.

TM doesn't normally work that way and its backup cannot always be made or used as a bootable volume.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

broad said:


> which OS are you running? older TM backups are not bootable...newer ones are.



Really? Could you let me and maybe others know what Macs and what newer TM backups can actually *boot* and *run* from a TM backup? Like a bootable CCC or SD clone can do.


----------



## Paddy (Jul 13, 2004)

pm-r said:


> Really? Could you let me and maybe others know what Macs and what newer TM backups can actually *boot* and *run* from a TM backup? Like a bootable CCC or SD clone can do.


AFAIK, Time Machine can't do what CCC or SD can do - but it can be used to _create_ a bootable backup:

Use Time Machine To Create A Bootable Backup | New Mac User

Of course, for those of us with over 750 GB of data to restore, this method starts to require a rather large backup drive, given that TM itself needs a _wee_ bit of space.


----------



## zen.state (Nov 29, 2005)

broad said:


> you've been posting here since 2005 and are just figuring this out now? he is the very definition of befuddled.


This is only the 2nd time ever I have interacted with pm-r but I certainly see his comprehension/understanding limitations now.

Burnaby is one of the absolute safest places in all of metro Vancouver. I would take the worst area here over any part of Surrey or Vancouver. Even New Westminster is far more dangerous than Burnaby.

The only bad area in all of Burnaby is the apartment complexes directly south of metrotown but it's still a much safer area than the downtown east side or north surrey. Those complexes near metrotown are a lot more poor than dangerous.


----------



## zen.state (Nov 29, 2005)

Paddy said:


> AFAIK, Time Machine can't do what CCC or SD can do - but it can be used to _create_ a bootable backup:
> 
> Use Time Machine To Create A Bootable Backup | New Mac User
> 
> Of course, for those of us with over 750 GB of data to restore, this method starts to require a rather large backup drive, given that TM itself needs a _wee_ bit of space.


Creating a bootable Time Machine that way is one option but I prefer to boot from a Mac OS DVD or USB stick with the Time Machine drive connected. All you do then is go to the utilities menu and select "Restore from Time Machine Backup". It will then restore your Mac to the exact state it was.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Paddy said:


> AFAIK, Time Machine can't do what CCC or SD can do - but it can be used to _create_ a bootable backup:
> 
> Use Time Machine To Create A Bootable Backup | New Mac User
> 
> Of course, for those of us with over 750 GB of data to restore, this method starts to require a rather large backup drive, given that TM itself needs a _wee_ bit of space.



Thanks Paddy.

I guess my confusions is what some refer to as a "*a bootable backup*", as opposed to " a restorable backup", which is what they are suggesting.

Just like the article you referred to and others like it, their articles are titled such as "How to make a bootable backup of your Mac" etc., and then in the article when they suggest using TM, and then say for example: "Apple’s way (Time Machine) is a lot simpler. The big disadvantage is that the backup is not bootable."

Having "*a bootable backup*" to me and many others is a proper *bootable* clone as created with CCC or SD, one can select and actually boot from. Not spending several hours doing the "recovery" thing.

The other interesting thing I find, even with some of those recent articles, their bootable/recovery they say to just use the OS X Install disc. But for OS X 10.7.x and 10.8.x, how is a user going to do that and how many have created a true "bootable" device for any of their OS X Lion versions they use. Not too many I suspect.

And I'd expect things to get uglier and worse without one when their normal boot drive goes kaput and the "Recovery HD" partition goes with it.

I'll stick with CCC thanks and have what I and others refer to as a real true "bootable backup", like one can just select as the boot drive, and actually boot up and is fully useable from the last clone backup. Maybe 60 seconds max., NOT a several hour recovery procedure.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

zen.state said:


> Creating a bootable Time Machine that way is one option but I prefer to boot from a Mac OS DVD or USB stick with the Time Machine drive connected. All you do then is go to the utilities menu and select "Restore from Time Machine Backup". It will then restore your Mac to the exact state it was.



I assume that when you say you "prefer to boot from a Mac OS DVD or USB stick", that you have made a custom DVD bootable disk for your 10.7.x or 10.8.x OS X?


----------



## zen.state (Nov 29, 2005)

pm-r said:


> I assume that when you say you "prefer to boot from a Mac OS DVD or USB stick", that you have made a custom DVD bootable disk for your 10.7.x or 10.8.x OS X?


You're forgetting that TM has existed since 10.5, but yes with 10.7+ I either use a custom made DVD or put it on a thumb drive. 

I don't personally run any Mac OS past 10.6 because after that they're covered in horrible. I am a certified mac tech along with BSD/Linux developer so that is why I use 10.7+ on occasion.


----------



## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Wait zen.state, you have an issue with pm-r making remarks about Burnaby yet you have no problems knocking New Westminster? I've lived in New Westminster from 1993 to 2000 and then again in 2005-2007, proud New Westminster Secondary School grad of 2001. Never once have I not felt safe in my city. 

In fact, I've lived in Burnaby, Vancouver, Coquitlam, Port Coquitlam, Mission, and currently live in Surrey. I'm not going to knock any of these cities. Stuff can happen anywhere, but you can't go through life worrying about it, that's no way to live. One is manyof times more likely to lose precious photos from a dead hard drive than being assaulted out on the streets, so quit with the region wars and back up your stuff.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

zen.state said:


> You're forgetting that TM has existed since 10.5, but yes with 10.7+ I either use a custom made DVD or put it on a thumb drive.
> 
> I don't personally run any Mac OS past 10.6 because after that they're covered in horrible. I am a certified mac tech along with BSD/Linux developer so that is why I use 10.7+ on occasion.



I have no idea why you would say that I'm "...forgetting that TM has existed since 10.5" and I haven't.

I also haven't forgotten that OS X bootable Install Disks were used up until SL 10.6.x. Not so for any of the Lions which I was specifically asking about, and any previous disks will be useless to such users and would have to do what you did - make a custom installer. 

Not a job for the average non-techy Mac user.


----------



## zen.state (Nov 29, 2005)

dona83 said:


> Wait zen.state, you have an issue with pm-r making remarks about Burnaby yet you have no problems knocking New Westminster? I've lived in New Westminster from 1993 to 2000 and then again in 2005-2007, proud New Westminster Secondary School grad of 2001. Never once have I not felt safe in my city.
> 
> In fact, I've lived in Burnaby, Vancouver, Coquitlam, Port Coquitlam, Mission, and currently live in Surrey. I'm not going to knock any of these cities. Stuff can happen anywhere, but you can't go through life worrying about it, that's no way to live. One is manyof times more likely to lose precious photos from a dead hard drive than being assaulted out on the streets, so quit with the region wars and back up your stuff.


I think you're confused. I didn't knock New West at all. I simply stated that it wasn't as safe as Burnaby and it's not. No one can deny that north Surry is not the greatest place which is also partly to blame for some of the New West issues since it's just across the river. 

The point is that Burnaby is NOT dangerous and virtually anyone who has ever lived in metro Van knows that. pm-r is the first person in my life I have ever seen or heard claim Burnaby was dangerous. I also didn't talk about NW like I was afraid of being stabbed there like pm-r did with Burnaby.

Also, when did I ever indicate that I go through life worried? It's pm-r who that should have been directed at. Facts are facts and delusions are delusions. Try to understand the difference.

You seem to have no perspective on the very words in front of you.

North-east Van, Surrey and increasingly New West are the most troubled areas of metro Van. That is simply a fact. Anyone who lives in reality would agree with that.

North Vancouver, West Vancouver, Burnaby and the west side of Van proper have always been the most desirable areas.


----------



## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Correction, New Westminster has ALWAYS been a troubled area and is just getting better. But I still feel safe in New West.

Btw, I should've said "one" instead of "you", that what happens when I try to throw in a quick post at work. I assume you didn't mean to insult me and pm-r either.


----------



## zen.state (Nov 29, 2005)

I'm picking up what you're putting down. No worries or offense intended.

The odd thing is that north east van proper is about the worst area and it's surrounded by good areas. East Van is perfectly safe once you get east of Renfrew so there is a good buffer between bad Van and Burnaby. North Van hasn't had issues with DTES people like New West has with Surrey.

Anyway, back to the backup topic. I doubt the rest of Canada cares about the concerns of metro Vancouverites.


----------



## OldeBullDust (Aug 22, 2010)

If I may add another consideration here - more to archived files as opposed to back-ups. The problem of long term storage.

For years i acted as the "go-to" Mac person where I worked, and spent may overtime hours late Friday evenings backing-up/archiving that week's drawings/files. I made sure we always had a reliable back-up/archive of our work. Now retired I have a large archive of old files which I can no longer access or read - the original applications no longer function and the hardware is obsolete.

I guess my point is that while we may save or work to disk, that is not the end of the process. I f you intend to keep the work for future use, you will have to update the files to keep them viable - accessible by newer versions of apps and new operating systems.

I find it somewhat curious that we can "read" ancient scrolls or Roman monuments, but have little chance of opening an old Quark Xpress 3 document

BTW I have 6 un-touched Bernoulli cartridges available for free - all of 20 Mb each.


----------



## Kleles (Jul 21, 2009)

OldeBullDust said:


> If I may add another consideration here - more to archived files as opposed to back-ups. The problem of long term storage.
> 
> For years i acted as the "go-to" Mac person where I worked, and spent may overtime hours late Friday evenings backing-up/archiving that week's drawings/files. I made sure we always had a reliable back-up/archive of our work. Now retired I have a large archive of old files which I can no longer access or read - the original applications no longer function and the hardware is obsolete.
> 
> ...


I came across some of my Fortran punch cards in my basement. "Hollerith" anyone?. I also have some Fortran coding sheets.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

OldeBullDust said:


> If I may add another consideration here - more to archived files as opposed to back-ups. The problem of long term storage.
> 
> For years i acted as the "go-to" Mac person where I worked, and spent may overtime hours late Friday evenings backing-up/archiving that week's drawings/files. I made sure we always had a reliable back-up/archive of our work. Now retired I have a large archive of old files which I can no longer access or read - the original applications no longer function and the hardware is obsolete.
> 
> ...



So true and an excellent point post OldeBullDust.

Luckily I was able to recover all the text from some 12 floppies a Lady had of many of her recently deceased husband's stories he had written over the years a year or so ago, and as a favour to her and for her husband's memory.

Some floppies were from his old Apple computer in Apple ProDos format. But my old G4 DT Mac was required to do so, and even using various OS 8.x and 9.x and associated hardware and software apps were needed to do so.

But I don't think if I'd want to tackle any Quark files even though I had an old version somewhere.

PS: I mentioned to the lady for her husband's stories, that I thought they should be published somehow, which apparently they are going to do as her daughter and son-in-law are both journalists/editors in Ontario. Neat.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Kleles said:


> I came across some of my Fortran punch cards in my basement. "Hollerith" anyone?. I also have some Fortran coding sheets.



Funny!!

My wife recycled two boxes of my old Fortran punch cards some years ago of my pack-rat old company stuff where I worked that had been used for a database thing via the UVIC computer center -of many years ago!!

Some earlier boxes had been given to my daughter's pre or early grade school where they stapled them together to make huge sunflowers type things, then sprayed with colors and they looked quite pretty.

Unfortunately, not even a backup photo of them I'm sure I would have taken. So now just a memory.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Kleles said:


> I came across some of my Fortran punch cards in my basement. "Hollerith" anyone?. I also have some Fortran coding sheets.



Thanks for you mention of Hollerith, and I didn't realize the importance of his inventions 'till I did some searching.

Sorta like the perforated paper player piano roll we have, and we've just sent my parents player piano an excellent local restorer for a full restoration.

I wonder if any of your old punch cards would play some notes when the restoration is completed?


----------



## 44137 (Jun 29, 2013)

"Why Do So Many People Fail to Back Up?"

I think it's because the majority of people just have this general concept that hardware rarely fails, and the odds against them are nil. 

It's important to maintain a backup plan of some sort. To be honest with todays toolsets that are available and built right into todays OS's there really is no excuse 

Great article post pm-r


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

beatoflife said:


> "Why Do So Many People Fail to Back Up?"
> 
> I think it's because the majority of people just have this general concept that hardware rarely fails, and the odds against them are nil.
> 
> ...



Thanks beatoflife, and hopefully we're back on track and normal here and without any off-topic negative personal bashing comments.

I guess I originally posted this question after receiving several calls from users whose hard drives had failed as well as their backup, or the backup was so old as to be almost useless.

With some of them, I had harped and harped about having a backup, test it occasionally, and I had even shown some just what to do and how to check it but to no avail it seems and I was wondering what I may be doing wrong and not getting through to them the importance of having at least one valid, current working backup. At least if they had anything that they wanted to save. Sigh!! 

I only know of one elderly lady who was adamant and emphatic about not wanting or needing *any* backup for *anything* and was quite incensed when she discovered that she still had about eight read email left in her Mail Inbox. Now that's extreme.


----------



## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

CubaMark said:


> Personal attacks such as this will soon have us feeling the loss of your presence, zen.state... man-o-man, what an ironic handle.
> 
> May I suggest a bit of respect toward other members of this forum?
> 
> ...


Are you suggesting that my statement that pm-r exemplifies the word "befuddled" is untrue and/or inaccurate?


----------



## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

broad said:


> Are you suggesting that my statement that pm-r exemplifies the word "befuddled" is untrue and/or inaccurate?


Seems to me that you have sufficient knowledge, to make your contributions both relevant and useful. 'Tis a shame you seldom make the effort.

One back-up strategy that is often overlooked are simple thumb drives. Hardly the route for power users but for lighter users it can work quite well. My wife used this method when it became obvious that the eMac was about to suffer a catastrophic loss of its video card. When the card did reach the point where a couple of solid whacks on the side of the computer failed to bring it back to life, she did not lose a single bit of data.

Quite simply at the end of each session she copied her user folder to a memory stick. She rotated through three sticks so she always had one day old and two day old back-ups. Total cost of this back up strategy was about $30.

Yes incremental back-ups would have been faster, but this method worked a lot better for her as Time Machine was not an option with Tiger. Nor did it require any special software. Simply erase the stick, then drag and drop her folder onto it.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

broad said:


> Are you suggesting that my statement that pm-r exemplifies the word "befuddled" is untrue and/or inaccurate?



Seeing that you asked, and considering the fact that you imply that you're very Mac savvy, personally I get very tired of your personal, often unfounded, personal and negative posts directed at me, and others, and never add anything constructive.

I would have thought you might have learned, as I believe ehmac has suspended you several times now for many of your personal negative attack posts.

... ...


----------



## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

hey cubamark..is that ^^^^ "appropriate and respectful behaviour toward another member of ehMac?"


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

another example of people insulting and calling people names and then getting excited when they get bitten back?

What is it with forums that attract people like this? Forums are supposed to be fun and a place to share info, not goad people into biting back after insulting them and other personal attacks.

Jeez.


----------



## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

groovetube said:


> another example of people insulting and calling people names and then getting excited when they get bitten back?
> 
> What is it with forums that attract people like this? Forums are supposed to be fun and a place to share info, not goad people into biting back after insulting them and other personal attacks.
> 
> Jeez.


lol no. just curious actually. im not some little sally who gets their feelings hurt by some discombobulated dude on a message board...just trying to understand where the boundaries are...

as i see it its ok for him to post a jpeg telling me to f*ck off, but its not ok for me to agree with zen states post..

just trying to make sure i have it all clear. seems there is some ambiguity though, no?


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

You know what? Who gives a ****. I'm tired of all of you and your crap.

This used to be a nice place to visit....

Gone.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

CubaMark said:


> You know what? Who gives a ****. I'm tired of all of you and your crap.
> 
> This used to be a nice place to visit....
> 
> Gone.



CubaMark, please just let the heat spell cool down and pass, and your contributions to this site are too valuable for us to loose.

Your reconsideration would be greatly appreciated.

PS: I believe there is an option to block certain forum posters somewhere, as well as certain threads. 

And I suspect the options to do so were set up for just just such a situation.

Take care.


----------



## maximusbibicus (Feb 25, 2002)

CubaMark said:


> You know what? Who gives a ****. I'm tired of all of you and your crap.
> 
> This used to be a nice place to visit....
> 
> Gone.


Psssst....if you are gone why does that dot to the left light up in green instead of red?


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

maximusbibicus said:


> Psssst....if you are gone why does that dot to the left light up in green instead of red?


Because I received a number of personal messages encouraging me not to go. Nice to know the surveillance is active in here, too. NSA much?


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

CubaMark said:


> Because I received a number of personal messages encouraging me not to go. Nice to know the surveillance is active in here, too. NSA much?


I for one am very glad to know that Mark. You are a welcome relief some days from the usual, and I mean that in a good way. FWIW, I reported that offensive post twice and nothing was done to eliminate it.


----------



## maximusbibicus (Feb 25, 2002)

SINC said:


> I for one am very glad to know that Mark. You are a welcome relief some days from the usual, and I mean that in a good way. FWIW, I reported that offensive post twice and nothing was done to eliminate it.


No issues with Mark...long time contributor here. A little less "I am taking my ball and going home" on this site would be a welcomed change though. Breath.....then post. 

This is the internet, people.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

Unfortunately the mod that was active has stepped down.

I don't blame anyone for getting tired of things and wanting a break. I do wish there was less personal attacks and more on topic stuff. People too often calling people names, insinuating things about people, it does get tiresome.

Glad you're still around Mark.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Phew, that was close and thanks to the other member private supporters and your decision to stay Mark. A nice relief for me to read.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

groovetube said:


> Unfortunately the mod that was active has stepped down.
> 
> I don't blame anyone for getting tired of things and wanting a break. I do wish there was less personal attacks and more on topic stuff. People too often calling people names, insinuating things about people, it does get tiresome.
> 
> Glad you're still around Mark.



+1!!

But what's with the "... the mod that was active has stepped down..", and has anyone taken over, or even attempted to get their ehmac.ca servers back to work from their recent siesta the last day or so?

Or is it freezing there and the cold molasses is just not flowing very fast.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

click on the forum leaders to see who's mod.

No idea on the server issues. I've noticed the slowdowns last couple days as well. But who knows what it is.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

groovetube said:


> click on the forum leaders to see who's mod.
> 
> No idea on the server issues. I've noticed the slowdowns last couple days as well. But who knows what it is.


OK, but where does one find and see who the "forum leaders" are??


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

FYI, I received a note from Mo saying that the moderator regime is under development - expect to see a tighter ship in the near future, and don't feel shy about using the report feature.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

CubaMark said:


> FYI, I received a note from Mo saying that the moderator regime is under development - expect to see a tighter ship in the near future, and don't feel shy about using the report feature.


Thanks for the info, and my thanks again to you for not abandoning the ehmac.ca ship for all your helpful and informative posts.


----------



## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

CubaMark said:


> FYI, I received a note from Mo saying that the moderator regime is under development - expect to see a tighter ship in the near future, and don't feel shy about using the report feature.


Thank you.


----------



## zen.state (Nov 29, 2005)

SINC said:


> I for one am very glad to know that Mark. You are a welcome relief some days from the usual, and I mean that in a good way. FWIW, I reported that offensive post twice and nothing was done to eliminate it.


Why don't you report it a few more times. It was clearly productive effort for you. Redundant as well. 

I am not here to pander to the preferences of the overly sensitive. If my posts offend you then don't read them. Keep your delusions of how people should behave to yourself. 

Unless any of you are willing to take personal expression directions from me then don't bother attempting to give them.

pm-r is indeed the things I called him. Whether it's rude or not is beside the point. If people didn't put empty thoughtless remarks out there then there would be nothing to be rude and realistic about in retort.

The internet, and life in general, is full of people who think they're saying something but are really just showing everyone how little they know.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

CubaMark said:


> FYI, I received a note from Mo saying that the moderator regime is under development - expect to see a tighter ship in the near future, and don't feel shy about using the report feature.


quite a few people were, really happy to see action being finally taken. Speckledmind was the first person to ever attempt a cleanup at ehmac. Too bad he's gone, which isn't really a great sign imo.


----------



## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

zen.state said:


> ....
> The internet, and life in general, is full of people who think they're saying something but are really just showing everyone how little they know.


Congratulations on being the perfect illustration of your key point. 

Still it has no relation to the topic at hand which is people failing to back-up.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

eMacMan said:


> Congratulations on being the perfect illustration of your key point.
> 
> Still it has no relation to the topic at hand which is people failing to back-up.


I was thinking the same thing as well. People somehow think that banging out on their keyboards calling people names, insulting them is thinking they're saying something. Well they are, they're saying they're a bully, behind their keyboard.

Tere is probably some sort of certificate of authenticity out there that they can fire up their printer for


----------



## zen.state (Nov 29, 2005)

Telling people how you honestly feel is saying something. It's a lot better than the delusions you overly sensitive types try to pass off as reality.

There seems to be a lot of issue here with honest truth. This is Canada people. We are not the pathetic Americans so stop acting like one. 

Obviously with the tens of thousands of posts some of you have made, you really have lost your scope and understanding with the real world. You will never stop me from expressing myself. If I get banned I will make another account via a proxy server and keep going. Your attempts to stop me are wasted.

I think a lot of you would be happier living in the USA. You certainly think like they do. Canada doesn't need people like you.


----------



## Garry (Jan 27, 2002)

Wow, You are taking this forum thing way to seriously. Like you said, this is the Internet. If you are so wrapped up thinking you need to to go to this much trouble just to get your voice heard, you should try going outside.


----------



## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

lol grown men are "reporting" internet posts and you think _he's_ taking it too seriously??

thats rich


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

I never did understand those that walk around bullying people calling them names, and then whine the post gets reported. 

The old it's someone else's fault. Rules are, no name calling, period. There are plenty of sandboxes out there to stand proud in and call people names if that's what you're into.

This place has had too many personal attacks go on without any moderation to speak of, and we wonder why people stop participating.

Who needs it.


----------



## zen.state (Nov 29, 2005)

groovetube said:


> I never did understand those that walk around bullying people calling them names, and then whine the post gets reported.
> 
> The old it's someone else's fault. Rules are, no name calling, period. There are plenty of sandboxes out there to stand proud in and call people names if that's what you're into.
> 
> ...


You seem hell bent on showing us all that you cannot comprehend simple direct language. Simply by implying that what has happened here is bullying is like jumping up and down with sirens and flags to announce that you can't deal with honest language. 

Any other personal shortcoming you would like to indirectly express? 

It's obvious that the world which lives in the heads of a few of you is not the one the rest of us know.


----------



## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

zen.state said:


> You seem hell bent on showing us all that you cannot comprehend simple direct language. Simply by implying that what has happened here is bullying is like jumping up and down with sirens and flags to announce that you can't deal with honest language.
> 
> Any other personal shortcoming you would like to indirectly express?
> 
> It's obvious that the world which lives in the heads of a few of you is not the one the rest of us know.


I'm simply saying that the rules say no name calling, and calling someone 'pathetic', is against the rules here.

I'm not sure how that isn't difficult to understand. People are tired of it, since there's no moderation (so far), members will speak up and say so.

Beyond this, I don't really care what the excuses are.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

broad said:


> lol grown men are "reporting" internet posts and you think _he's_ taking it too seriously??
> 
> thats rich


Watch out that you don't get reported for bruising someone's feelings by such hurtful invective! The ban hammer doesn't take to such trash talk lightly.


----------



## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

broad said:


> lol grown men are "reporting" internet posts and you think _he's_ taking it too seriously??
> 
> thats rich


And that relates to the topic how? Amazing how selfish you are with that wealth of self proclaimed knowledge.

_Hint: _The topic has to do with people not backing up.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

eMacMan said:


> And that relates to the topic how?
> 
> _Hint: _The topic has to do with people not backing up.


I think that people should back up all of their insults for recycling.


----------



## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

eMacMan said:


> And that relates to the topic how? Amazing how selfish you are with that wealth of self proclaimed knowledge.
> 
> _Hint: _The topic has to do with people not backing up.


i dont know about you, but i would blame spotlight.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Garry said:


> Wow, You are taking this forum thing way to seriously. Like you said, this is the Internet. If you are so wrapped up thinking you need to to go to this much trouble just to get your voice heard, you should try going outside.




Hmmm... I'm just wondering if any of these would be useful or helpful here?


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I think we should just have one ehMac posting rule: "Don't say anything Charles Bukowski wouldn't say."


----------



## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

pm-r said:


> Hmmm... I'm just wondering if any of these would be useful or helpful here?


Lol at you posting the bukowski quote. You've made about 4 or 5 completely inaccurate posts in this thread alone.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

broad said:


> Lol at you posting the bukowski quote. You've made about 4 or 5 completely inaccurate posts in this thread alone.



Hmmm... it really fascinates me how or why so many reply-posters here and at other sites think or even consider that their unsupported *opinion* posts should even be considered as actually being *accurate and true*.

And BTW: I thought I'd add the Charles Bukowski poster quote just as bait that someone like you would pickup and use with yet another personal attack post, and I see you took the bait.

I'm sorry if you're finding one of your legs longer than your other one.


----------



## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

lets recap, shall we?



> OK. I'll concede a bit that the new design certainly has some merit and some nice improvements when I got around to actually reading about it and Apple's reasons:
> 
> Apple - Mac - AirPort Time Capsule
> 
> _Plus the fact that I'll admit that I haven't even seen one in real life._


backtracking on earlier comments made with, as is customary, absolutely no clue what you were talking about. 



> _But I don't believe the previous Consoles had a fan,_ but were prone to overheating, especially when people piled paper and books on top of them - one of the reasons for the design of the original space capsule Airports, so nothing could be placed on top.


im going to assume "Console" means "capsule" (tough to understand what you're talking about sometimes when you use names interchangeably like that) and if thats the case then you are, as almost always, incorrect. every previous time capsule ever produced has had a fan. 



> And I don't know of any Mac software app that can recover any data from any really dead non-working, non-mounting drive without using some sort of physical switching and/or the use of some clean room.


the referenced diskdrill, disk warrior, data rescue, drive genius are but 4 of the pieces of readily available software that i have personally used (among others) to recover data from a drive that doesn't mount



> Nope.
> 
> TM doesn't normally work that way and its backup cannot always be made or used as a bootable volume.


again, wrong. lion and mountain lion time machine backups can absolutely be used as bootable volumes, suitable for formatting a new internal disk, downloading a new copy of the OS, making repairs to the internal drive, and using safari to google search the web (your favourite) for help.

google search (again i know you love that) any of the above and you will find what i have said to be accurate and what you have said to be (customarily) inaccurate.

so again...tell me whose posts are unsupported opinions?


----------



## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

ps if you think this



> Lol at you posting the bukowski quote. You've made about 4 or 5 completely inaccurate posts in this thread alone.


is a "personal attack post" then the world must be a scary, scary place for you. my apologies.


----------



## zen.state (Nov 29, 2005)

People who use other peoples words to make points have nothing of their own to offer. So why bother posting anything? It's not enough that you can't be original but you also do it with a bunch of invasive images. We don't need a picture of words.

Honest question... do you have any basic sense at all, pm-r?


----------



## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

so pm-r makes a comment implying that my posts (im assuming im the "reply-poster" hes talking about, whatever the hell that is) are "unsupported opinions"

i take the time to dig up 3 or 4 examples of him posting inaccurate info *just in this thread alone*. no name calling, no "personal attack posts" as he would put it..just a nice summary of some facts that he is obviously not aware of...but now its gone. deleted. 

lol at this place.


----------



## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

does anyone know what a reply-poster is?

bueller? BUELLER??


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

broad said:


> does anyone know what a is?
> 
> bueller? BUELLER??



As I understand and use it as as others on many other discussion groups do as well, a 'reply-poster' is a reply to message that someone else has previously posted. Makes sense to me.


----------



## kps (May 4, 2003)

Did a search on data recovery and this popped up---1 page with some answers and 4 pages of useless unrelated personal jousting. No wonder this place is sliding down the poop chute.

reminds me of this:


----------



## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

My setup is using 3 external FW drives. I have a TM backup on each, as well as a SuperDuper clone. I also have each drive partitioned for such (probably not the recommended way since a drive can fail, affecting all partitions). I was considering getting a Time Capsule just for the wireless backup option rather than powering up and un-mounting all my drives in my backup scheme. My question right now is, is there any problems with leaving external drives running and mounted 24/7? Like I said, I power them up and down for backup purposes only. But, if I left them mounted all the time, than I could use SuperDupers scheduling options and just let it do its thing.


----------



## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Now this is interesting. Using SuperDuper to clone to a network drive such as Time Capsule. Can anyone here verify if this works reliably?

Superduper Backup onto Time Capsule | AVForums

ShirtPocket also says SuperDuper can clone to a network drive.

So, since you can't really partition the Time Capsule HDD without removing it and voiding the warranty, how can you use both Time Machine and SuperDupeer with Time capsule? Both backup schemes really require 2 separate partitions, don't they?


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

csonni said:


> My setup is using 3 external FW drives. I have a TM backup on each, as well as a SuperDuper clone. I also have each drive partitioned for such (probably not the recommended way since a drive can fail, affecting all partitions). I was considering getting a Time Capsule just for the wireless backup option rather than powering up and un-mounting all my drives in my backup scheme. My question right now is, is there any problems with leaving external drives running and mounted 24/7? Like I said, I power them up and down for backup purposes only. But, if I left them mounted all the time, than I could use SuperDupers scheduling options and just let it do its thing.



I don't know about SD (SuperDuper!) I quit using it many years ago for various negative reasons, but I do know that using CCC (Carbon Copy Cloner) to use its schedule to an external HDD FW drive, the drives would spin down regardless after a while while powered On and would just spin up when CCC was scheduled to do its thing.

If the externals were turned Off or disconnected, CCC would ask if it should continue when they were reconnected and powered On.

As for your Time Capsule question, maybe read Bombich's FAQ about it and I'm sure that using your SD would be the same:

Carbon Copy Cloner Documentation


----------



## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Just entered TimeMachine and am not able to access anything past yesterday. I started up Back-In-Time and it does fine with going back to whatever is on my external. Not more than 10% space is available, but I wonder why TM can go back to anything but yesterday. i see the dates on the right side, I click on them, but nothing comes forward. Not too please in this case. I think I'll delete lots of those previous "versions" to free up space. How does one go about manually eliminating TM backups and just leave the most recent? Should I manually drag the later ones to the trash or will that mess up TM (not that it's working anyways!).....Found it. It's done through the cog in the menubar. And deleting them takes a long time......

Update: Just entered back into TM and it's now working. A bit flukey on the first try, though.

Also, when having 2 TM drives mounted, how can I select the other TM volume for backup after the first one? Doesn't seem to be very clear. The volume I just backed up to is designated in color and icon as a TM volume. But the other TM volume I have mounted is just showing as a FW drive. I suppose the only way is to unmount the one I am done with and just click Backup Now and TM will eventually detect the mounted drive to back up to.


----------



## Pat McCrotch (Jun 19, 2006)

I'm about to nuke and pave my white MacBook. It's been getting a little sluggish so I'm gonna clone my drive with carbon copy cloner and then reimport all of my data and programs one by one.

Hopefully, it'll speed things up and free up some space.

I wish I could rely on just TM but from past experience, there's nothing like a bootable clone for the ultimate peace of mind.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Pat McCrotch said:


> I'm about to nuke and pave my white MacBook. It's been getting a little sluggish so I'm gonna clone my drive with carbon copy cloner and then reimport all of my data and programs one by one.
> 
> Hopefully, it'll speed things up and free up some space.
> 
> I wish I could rely on just TM but from past experience, there's nothing like a bootable clone for the ultimate peace of mind.



FWIW PM, I ended up using CCC to clone my iMac to a backup, nuked and paved with a zero out option on the partition and use CCC to just clone everything back.

I couldn't believe the speed improvement and I think I even posted the routine and speed results to ehmac.

I also did the same thing with a clients Mac, and the speed improvement also happened.

CCC cloned everything each time and all at once.


----------



## Pat McCrotch (Jun 19, 2006)

pm-r said:


> FWIW PM, I ended up using CCC to clone my iMac to a backup, nuked and paved with a zero out option on the partition and use CCC to just clone everything back.
> 
> I couldn't believe the speed improvement and I think I even posted the routine and speed results to ehmac.
> 
> ...


Nice, I want to really purge alot of junk so I'm actually gonna reimport my itunes library, contacts, iphoto, documents etc. etc.

I was recently trying to figure out why I was running out of space on my mac. I found that I had some year old iPhone backups that were over 20 GBs! So I deleted some of those. It's gonna be long but I think it'll be worth it and I'm sure I'll recover some HD space in the process.

P.S. What's the zero out option you refer to?


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

"P.S. What's the zero out option you refer to?"


It's an option in Disk Utility when erasing a volume but I think later versions now show it as "Erase Free Space" or some such.

ASAIK, when running it, I believe it still maps out any goofy drive sectors as well.


----------



## Pat McCrotch (Jun 19, 2006)

pm-r said:


> "P.S. What's the zero out option you refer to?"
> 
> 
> It's an option in Disk Utility when erasing a volume but I think later versions now show it as "Erase Free Space" or some such.
> ...


Ok so you go ahead and run disk util from another computer and actually format the hard drive before installing the OS?

Also, I hadn't thought of this, my internal DVD drive is toast. Can I safely install the OS from my external USB CD/DVD drive?


----------



## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Using the zero out option, from what I understand, is not recommended on an SSD, if that is what you might have.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Pat McCrotch said:


> Ok so you go ahead and run disk util from another computer and actually format the hard drive before installing the OS?
> 
> Also, I hadn't thought of this, my internal DVD drive is toast. Can I safely install the OS from my external USB CD/DVD drive?



Before running DU or any disk formatting utility, do a double check that you have an actual working backup for any data you want to keep.

I can just imagine how many have yelled Oh Sh*t just after clicking the erase/partition/format button without any data backup. 

It's recommended to use the DU version that comes with the OS X version and you should be able to boot from and use your USB CD/DVD drive as long as you have an Intel based Mac, but it's easy enough to try and test using your OS X install disk and see if it works and is recognized as a OS X boot device/volume.


----------



## Pat McCrotch (Jun 19, 2006)

pm-r said:


> Before running DU or any disk formatting utility, do a double check that you have an actual working backup for any data you want to keep.
> 
> I can just imagine how many have yelled Oh Sh*t just after clicking the erase/partition/format button without any data backup.
> 
> It's recommended to use the DU version that comes with the OS X version and you should be able to boot from and use your USB CD/DVD drive as long as you have an Intel based Mac, but it's easy enough to try and test using your OS X install disk and see if it works and is recognized as a OS X boot device/volume.


I think you misunderstood my question. Of course I have a working backup before I nuke my internal HD! Thanks for your concern. My heart still skipped a beat when I hit the "erase free space" button! My question was, *do you boot and run disk utility from an external drive to zero the free space*

I have 3 backups: Time Machine and a full backup of my iTunes library on one drive and a bootable clone on another external FW 400 drive. I actually had to delete my iTunes library before performing the clone because my external HD is slightly too small and my iTunes is 110+ GBs. 

I can confirm that I can boot from my external DVD drive. I have an external DVD drive because my internal drive bit the dust. (Free upgrade, I now have a white MacBook Air :lmao: ). So right now I've booted from my Snow Leopard disk and I'm using the disk utility to zero my main partition. I did it this way because I was unsure whether or not I'd get the option during the install. 

When I was testing my clone, I noticed one important difference in the GUI. It used to be that when I booted from my clone, the external drive would be displayed with a HD icon whereas the internal drive would be displayed in an orange "external drive" icon. Now, I find the icons are unchanged: my clone is orange and my internal is the little HD. I checked and there was no eject option besides either drives but I still managed to eject my internal drive. I knew this was safe because during the cloning process I was working on an excel file and I created a new file and saved it _after_ my clone was done. By checking for that file, I knew for certain I was booted on my external drive.

*Since all drive icons (external and internal) remain unchanged, how do you guys know for a fact that you are booted on one drive or another, especially if they are exact copies of one another?*


----------



## Pat McCrotch (Jun 19, 2006)

Dang it! I just realized that "erase free space" doesn't actually format the drive it just "erases the free space"! Who would have figured :lmao: doh!

So now I selected erase, which took about 2 seconds and I'm gonna do the erase free space which will now take at least twice as long because now the whole partition is free space. Oh well, you live, you learn.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

I didn't mean to insult your intelligence regarding a good backup, but I've seen too many cases of the so called backup being kaput!!

The attached external FW or USB drives are usually shown as orange with a corresponding white icon on top as to the actual type.

In the good old OS days, the boot volume always mounted in the top-right corner of the display, but that is no longer true. So to tell, check the About This Mac window and it will list the name of the "Startup Disk".

I hope everything has been going well for you.

PS: Personally, I sure wouldn't be working on any project, especially any Excel file, while a cloning operation was in progress.


----------



## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

pm-r said:


> PS: Personally, I sure wouldn't be working on any project, especially any Excel file, while a cloning operation was in progress.


Now that brings up an issue that I have as well as maybe many others. What can or shouldn't you be doing when a clone is in progress? Is it possible for that particular file to become corrupt?


----------



## Pat McCrotch (Jun 19, 2006)

pm-r said:


> I didn't mean to insult your intelligence regarding a good backup, but I've seen too many cases of the so called backup being kaput!!
> 
> The attached external FW or USB drives are usually shown as orange with a corresponding white icon on top as to the actual type.
> 
> ...


I guess you are right. I did most of the work after the clone was done. Obviously, I had to save my file on an external drive since it wasn't cloned and would have gotten erased in the process of formatting my drives.

I made one bonehead mistake, I forgot to correctly select my user name and just hit next! Doh. So I enabled the root user and followed apple's tactic for changing the home folder/user short name. The only "problem" is that now I get prompted for a password on every login. It's probably a system setting in "accounts".

*since I haven't migrated most of my data yet I was wondering if you guys created an non administrator user for daily use?* I remember reading about that a while back. Some people create a separate account for daily use and keep the administrator account simply for installing things. I'm really the only person that uses my computer, is this still a necessary precaution?


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

I have no proof, but just knowing what is going on with a backup or especially with a complete clone, it seems that there is just too much chance for file corruption. For just a small incremental backup, I would think it may not be as critical, but why take a chance and for just a few minutes wait time maybe at most.

And here are just two sites that agree:

How (and Why) to Clone Your Mac Hard Drive [MacRx] | Cult of Mac

backup - Should I stop using my Mac while the hard disk is being cloned? - Ask Different

My take is, why take a chance, and just take a break and let the Mac and the drives do their *one* thing properly and without interruption - and hopefully creating a good quality clone backup.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Pat McCrotch said:


> ... ... ...
> I made one bonehead mistake, I forgot to correctly select my user name and just hit next! Doh. So I enabled the root user and followed apple's tactic for changing the home folder/user short name. The only "problem" is that now I get prompted for a password on every login. It's probably a system setting in "accounts".
> 
> *since I haven't migrated most of my data yet I was wondering if you guys created an non administrator user for daily use?* I remember reading about that a while back. Some people create a separate account for daily use and keep the administrator account simply for installing things. I'm really the only person that uses my computer, is this still a necessary precaution?



I'm not clear on what you actually did, but if you can't get your login settings set and to work properly in the Accounts pref pane, I'd possibly be inclined do the cloning all over again from the start, and do it the "normal" way.

I know that some users insist on using a non-admin (standard) user account, I don't, but I do try and keep a separate admin "Tester" account as virgin as possible for any possible trouble shooting.

But keeping such accounts virgin is almost impossible as a lot of software installs add their stuff for *all* users anyway, and often without any other option available. 

So why bother using a non-admin user account when you are the *only* user. But make sure you are and that nobody else can have access to your Mac and goof things up or even delete stuff.

But then again, you'll have a fairly current backup won't you, for just in case type things.


----------



## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Wow. First time I ever got this with TM. I had deleted some backups through TM yesterday, so that should have given me even more room. I have 283GB of 500GB available. What gives?


----------



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

csonni said:


> I had deleted some backups through TM yesterday...


That's probably why. Just like in iPhoto, you do not manually manipulate Time Machine backups. You'll likely have to erase your TM volume and start over from scratch. Time Machine auto-deletes old backups as necessary and without user intervention.


----------



## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

You may have not looked back at my previous post(s). I entered TM and selected the past backup, clicked on the gear cog in the menubar and deleted the correct way. That's Apple's built-in way to manually delete backups. If something went wrong that way, then the method is flawed starting with Apple. 
Anyways, I think I am going to start over on that partition. That can be done safely through Disk Utility, correct? Do I just erase the desired partition in DU? I want to be sure DU isn't going to erase the whole drive. I can't really find any help on this topic. All info is directly related to using DU on the entire drive but no info on using DU on separate partitions.


----------



## screature (May 14, 2007)

Don't mean to be glib, but I have never trusted Time Machine and "automated backups" from the beginning. That's why I don't use it.

My advice is to do regular (weekly or daily backups depending on your usage) using CCC or SuperDuper and forget about Time Machine. I have heard too many disaster stories like yours to indicate that my suspicions were correct all along.

Back up manually and frequently if you do a lot of work.

I have yet to lose any data working this way over the last, I don't know... decade or so...


----------



## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

I partially agree, but you're missing the point of Time Machine- you can go back in time and grab a file or whatever it might be. I use Back-In-Time which makes much better use of TM backups. You can actually use it just like the Finder and drag a previous file back into place. Actually, it cam in real handy tonight when I was doing a bunch of scans and accidentally copied over an existing file. A SuperDuper or manual backup will only go back once and that's it. Granted, I may still eliminate Tm altogether, but it does hold its weight to some degree.


----------



## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

csonni said:


> You may have not looked back at my previous post(s). I entered TM and selected the past backup, clicked on the gear cog in the menubar and deleted the correct way. That's Apple's built-in way to manually delete backups. If something went wrong that way, then the method is flawed starting with Apple.


Fair enough. That said, TM can some times mess up. It's pretty unusual in my experience, though, since I started using it in 10.5 when it was introduced.

You can erase individual partitions in DU - the drive and its partitions appear in DU on the left hand side.


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

screature said:


> Don't mean to be glib, but I have never trusted Time Machine and "automated backups" from the beginning. That's why I don't use it.
> 
> My advice is to do regular (weekly or daily backups depending on your usage) using CCC or SuperDuper and forget about Time Machine. I have heard too many disaster stories like yours to indicate that my suspicions were correct all along.
> 
> ...



+1 and my experience and what I have experienced with too many users as well to fully trust TM.




csonni said:


> I partially agree, but you're missing the point of Time Machine- you can go back in time and grab a file or whatever it might be. I use Back-In-Time which makes much better use of TM backups. You can actually use it just like the Finder and drag a previous file back into place. Actually, it cam in real handy tonight when I was doing a bunch of scans and accidentally copied over an existing file. A SuperDuper or manual backup will only go back once and that's it. Granted, I may still eliminate Tm altogether, but it does hold its weight to some degree.



I don't know about SD, but CCC can do the same thing using its backup and archive option. i.e.: any Trashed item will end up being saved to the CCC backup archive when the backup is preformed.

Maybe not quite as convenient as TM's method, but I've never seen it fail as TM seems to do so often.


----------



## Pat McCrotch (Jun 19, 2006)

A quick update to say that I am up and running and what can I say, the speed is blazing fast! No more beach ball and safari is crazy fast. I guess I shoulda emptied the cache more often because my safari hasn't been this fast in years.

I had one problem, it seems that the newest version of the Plex helper app doesn't like my computer. I never managed to do the latest update. It wouldn't install. Now downloading it outright it doesn't seem to work properly. No biggie, just copy from my clone. _I've always wondered if there was an advantage/disadvantage to downloading and reinstalling an app vs dragging it over from a backup._

Just for fun, I used the time machine restore function to restore the contents of my documents folder instead of doing a copy paste (from the clone). Definitely like the eye candy and it's definitely very user friendly. However, the convenience of having a bootable clone is just essential. I find this especially true when upgrading the OS. If an update breaks an app you absolutely must use, you can even run the app from a previous version of the OS if you keep the clone so it's pretty much fool proof.

Also freed up about 100GB! To be frank there's a whole bunch of movies that are backed up anyway that I didn't bother copying so that's part of it. Also, haven't installed logic yet and I think that's a whopping 12 gig install (even more if you install certain sound beds).

Also, I noticed iPad and iPhone backups eat up crazy amounts of space. I have a 32 GB iPhone and it's not an "intelligent" backup like Time Machine so if you have 20GB of data, in 4 backups you are up to 80GB! I'll create some fresh backups on my new, clean install but I wish apple made it as easy to manage iDevice backups as they do with Time Machine because these backups absolutely invade your HD since iDevices backup through iTunes. There's probably a way to backup to an external drive but still, I wish they gave us a simpler way to deal with that.

Also, keeping copies of apps in iTunes seems somewhat redundant. I guess if you absolutely had to downgrade an app, it would be one of the only ways. It's just that if you are like me and like testing out apps to see if you like them, you can collect a huge amount of crud in there over time without even noticing. I guess you can get in there and manually delete them bit my argument is that if we have the cloud and the store, why always the need to backup apps locally when you could just redownload them?


----------



## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Pat McCrotch said:


> ....
> 
> Also, I noticed iPad and iPhone backups eat up crazy amounts of space. I have a 32 GB iPhone and it's not an "intelligent" backup like Time Machine so if you have 20GB of data, in 4 backups you are up to 80GB! I'll create some fresh backups on my new, clean install but I wish apple made it as easy to manage iDevice backups as they do with Time Machine because these backups absolutely invade your HD since iDevices backup through iTunes. There's probably a way to backup to an external drive but still, I wish they gave us a simpler way to deal with that.
> 
> Also, keeping copies of apps in iTunes seems somewhat redundant. I guess if you absolutely had to downgrade an app, it would be one of the only ways. It's just that if you are like me and like testing out apps to see if you like them, you can collect a huge amount of crud in there over time without even noticing. I guess you can get in there and manually delete them bit my argument is that if we have the cloud and the store, why always the need to backup apps locally when you could just redownload them?


Very valid points for those who suddenly find free disk space has shrunk seemingly without cause.


----------



## screature (May 14, 2007)

csonni said:


> I partially agree, but you're missing the point of Time Machine- you can go back in time and grab a file or whatever it might be. I use Back-In-Time which makes much better use of TM backups. You can actually use it just like the Finder and drag a previous file back into place. Actually, it cam in real handy tonight when I was doing a bunch of scans and accidentally copied over an existing file. A SuperDuper or manual backup will only go back once and that's it. Granted, I may still eliminate Tm altogether, but it does hold its weight to some degree.


No I do get that aspect of TM, which can be great for reasons like you cite. Perhaps TM in conjunction with a back up using CCC or Super Duper.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I might be classed as having back up overload, but here is what I do.

iTunes movies, apps and music kept on a 1 TB external on my desk. I also carry in my briefcase, another external 1 TB mini drive, cloned to the aforementioned iTunes HD. As well, all my music is stored on the disk of my MBP so I can play any of it wherever I am. Each cloned to the other each time I make changes to one or the other. I simply switch between libraries as required to access what I want to use.

I also have a 2 TB external, partitioned 25-75, one a CCC clone of the MBP and the other a TM backup, each run daily.

I also clone the MBP daily to a 1 TB mini external using CCC that I carry with me and store in the heated garage at night, ditto for the other mini drives, (garage is some 75 feet away from the house).

Then I have a mini 500 GB that I clone weekly using CCC and stays in the briefcase I carry with me everywhere and left in that heated garage at night as well.


----------



## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

You might want to consider full body insurance coverage for yourself as well


----------



## Pat McCrotch (Jun 19, 2006)

SINC said:


> I might be classed as having back up overload, but here is what I do.
> 
> iTunes movies, apps and music kept on a 1 TB external on my desk. I also carry in my briefcase, another external 1 TB mini drive, cloned to the aforementioned iTunes HD. As well, all my music is stored on the disk of my MBP so I can play any of it wherever I am. Each cloned to the other each time I make changes to one or the other. I simply switch between libraries as required to access what I want to use.
> 
> ...


Wow. That's kinda nuts but kudos for being extra safe with your data. I remember reading about a user on ehmac that brought a HD to work so he had a backup of all his data that would stay under lock and key in his office. All the backing up I do of course doesn't protect me from fire or theft. One can't get paranoid but an ex girlfriend of mine did get burglarized and the bastards took even her backup HDs, it can happen.

I have one slight problem though. *Since I didn't restore from my TM backup, I'm not getting the option to resume backing up onto that same backup file.* I'm thinking it's because my computer name has changed.

What if I changed the name of my backup so that it would reflect my computer name? Would it solve the problem or would it just kill my 2+ year old backup history? Here's what I mean:

In the backup.backup folder on my external HD the is the _oldcomputername_ folder and since my fresh install I have _newcomputername_. If I just rename the folder located in backups.backups on my external HD to _newcomputername_, would TM allow me to resume the incremental backups along the timeline?


----------



## Pat McCrotch (Jun 19, 2006)

screature said:


> No I do get that aspect of TM, which can be great for reasons like you cite. Perhaps TM in conjunction with a back up using CCC or Super Duper.


Screature: anyone that relies solely on TM is not safe in my opinion. However, complete clones, even ones that only track the modified data are somewhat impractical. They are usually relatively long to backup and have restrictions such as they can not be bootable if the clone is stored in the same partition as other data.

To me, TM is an ultra convenient complement to a more comprehensive backup routine using superduper! or CCC but it doesn't replace the need for the latter. Even if you backup weekly, it's inconvenient to lose the weeks new contacts, data, work etc in the case of a HD failure. TMs hourly backup system is unbeatable in ease of use thoroughness. Plus it gets untech savvy people like my parents to do backups.

I wish that TC had more advanced features for the more tech savvy people though. There could be a basic view and then an "advanced options" button for more advanced configurations.


----------



## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Here's some good tips in using Time Machine:

Inaudible Discussion — Making the most out of Time Machine (Tutorial)


----------



## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

Pat McCrotch said:


> Screature: anyone that relies solely on TM is not safe in my opinion. However, complete clones, even ones that only track the modified data are somewhat impractical. They are usually relatively long to backup and have restrictions such as they can not be bootable if the clone is stored in the same partition as other data.
> 
> To me, TM is an ultra convenient complement to a more comprehensive backup routine using superduper! or CCC but it doesn't replace the need for the latter. Even if you backup weekly, it's inconvenient to lose the weeks new contacts, data, work etc in the case of a HD failure. TMs hourly backup system is unbeatable in ease of use thoroughness. Plus it gets untech savvy people like my parents to do backups.
> 
> I wish that TC had more advanced features for the more tech savvy people though. There could be a basic view and then an "advanced options" button for more advanced configurations.




You seem to have a pretty good handle on backups and have discovered that TM is a bit limited on user options it seems, and one can only use it as the developers designed it, and no other mucking about or changes allowed. And I agree with your comment on its reliability for some users.

But I just thought I'd mention that one can also make CCC into something like TM with a few additions and modifications to add multiple schedules and with an additional archiving option for each and every schedule if needed.


----------



## csonni (Feb 8, 2001)

Something isn't right with my TM. I just started the other day with a fresh 700GB partition and I've only got 100GB left. I know I've not added that many files to take up all that space. What exactly is TM doing here?


----------

