# Apple TV or Blu-Ray



## lindmar (Nov 13, 2003)

OK Ehmac'ers way in....

My parents want to buy me one or the other for an upcoming Birthday gift.

I'm torn both ways....


If any ehmac'ers can give me advice if you one one or the other or both.....

Thanks


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## Vexel (Jan 30, 2005)

I chose the AppleTV.

a) I love mine.

b) Blu-Ray is really expensive right now and purchasing movies for it is just as expensive. Sure, it's the top of the line.. but, it's going to get cheaper down the road.

c) The AppleTV has been great for renting movies and buying movies off of the iTunes Store. I no longer go looking at the video store, I rent from the comfort of my own home.

d) There is no slicker way to get your iTunes content from your Mac to your HDTV. None. It's wonderful, really.

e) I love mine. (Oh, I already put that in. )


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

What type of TV do you have? If you don't have a newer 720P or 1080P tv, you aren't going to be able to use Blue-Ray. (Although Blu-Ray is meant for 1080P, my plasma 720P looks better then some 1080P LCDs I have seen). 

That would be a decision breaker there.

I would still go Blu-Ray, I just did and thought about Apple TV but once I saw Blu-Ray I wanted it. 80)

Blu-Ray players now sell for $250 and up which isn't that expensive. My Sony player was on sale at Best Buy and the BVDs are comparable in price to standard DVDs although some re a bit more expensive.


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## lindmar (Nov 13, 2003)

RunTheWorldOnMac said:


> What type of TV do you have? If you don't have a newer 720P or 1080P tv, you aren't going to be able to use Blue-Ray. (Although Blu-Ray is meant for 1080P, my plasma 720P looks better then some 1080P LCDs I have seen).
> 
> That would be a decision breaker there.
> 
> ...


I have a 46" sammy that is 720p/1080i....

I kinda think I'm going to end up getting both but maybe AppleTV first..


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

Both is also a great idea!


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## JustAMacUser (Oct 21, 2007)

My TV is 26" 720p/1080i. I don't watach a lot of movies, but I pick the Apple TV because of its multi-functionality and ease of renting movies from the iTunes Store (haven't been to Blockbuster in months).

I plan to get a Bluray drive at some point, but not until the players are <$100.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

The problem with Blu-Ray is that just about the time the players and movies become "normal" priced, some whiz kid out there is going to come out with a format that holds twice as much for half the cost. Several such initiatives are already underway.

AppleTV will be unaffected by changes in HD disc format, since it doesn't use discs. While it is currently limited to 720p/1080i at present, future models will likely support 1080p (and most HDTV owners don't have true 1080p sets anyway).

In short, I might pick up a cheap Blu-Ray player if they ever got really cheap, but there's absolutely no way I'd re-invest in a large Blu-Ray collection of movies. It's a transitional format at best.


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## mike100 (Oct 2, 2008)

I've had an apple tv from day one of the release and I love it for what it is. I basically use it as an ipod for my home stereo with a cool interface on the plasma in the family room. I have downloaded about 200 music videos from usenet and converted them to mp4's which the kids love. A few movies that my 2 year olds watch over and over again I've got stored on the apple tv (used handbrake to convert) for quick access. My wife downloads cooking video podcasts and watches them while preparing dinner.

What I haven't used it much for is watching movies. I've rented a couple and have been a bit underwhelmed at the quality. I also find it hard to pay for movies right now when there seem to be ways to get them for free....and these ways involve a long conversion process if you want to put them on the Atv most of the time.

If Atv supported common codecs live divex, or even most h264 codecs out there, then I would be watching a lot more movies on it. 

Incidentally, I just tried to convert a downloaded blu-ray disc (50 gigs) to an atv format, and it took 30 hours.

If you plan to watch a lot of big budget feature films, I might suggest a blu-ray player and get an account with one of the Canadian Netflix wannabes. Or you can wait until Netgear releases their next streaming HD console in the next month or so.

I will keep my Atv, but I think I will need either the netgear box or a blu-ray player quite soon.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

After many, many years of 20" CRT viewing and saving, I've ordered a home theatre system that is coming in about a week. 

I too was pondering Blu Ray, Apple TV or both. I've decided to get the Blu Ray player for now, and wait to see what shakes out with it. I'm getting a true 1080p Panasonic Plasma, and decided to go with the resolution of Blu Ray for now, and hope that the Apple TV will go 1080P soon too. If anything, just want to wait until after MacWorld just in case.  Also, when I'm in San Fran, if they announce an update to the Apple TV, I'll pick up some US iTunes gift cards as their no comparison to content. Eventually I'd like both.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

There are already formats that hold more information... but the issue isn't what format will come out next that holds more data; we don't need more storage at this point, we have enough already. Until they come out with a commercial version of 2000p video devices and what-not... Blu-Ray is more than enough to sate people's needs. Nobody is buying a 150" TV any time soon.

AppleTV is greatly effected by the user's broadband. Who wants to download pseudo hidef content that's compressed for web delivery? How much video can you download over the course of a month without hitting your cap?

1080i televisions are, depending on the make, great televisions. People who claim to see the interlacing have no clue what they're talking about. The 40" Bravia 1080i I have at home is great for gaming, movies and yes, sports, too. NO FLICKER! The only times I've ever seen interlacing is when I view shows broadcasted/DVDs in 480i--that has nothing to do with the television, but with how the video is captured/produced.

The prices for Blu-Ray players are dropping around the $199 US level and Blu-Ray movies are also becoming affordable: Kill Bill 1 & 2: $13 each; Lethal Weapon 1&2: $20 each; Iron Man: $15. I just picked up No Country for Old Men for $10 at WalMart!

Transitional format? Hardly. To what? There's no forthcoming technology on the horizon--at least nothing affordable! What _is_ coming is industrial-level technology that's better suited for digital projection in theaters than home video. Downloads and Blu-Ray can and will co-exist. Supplement each other. What do you plan to do with all your downloaded hi-def content? Back it up to DVD? 



chas_m said:


> The problem with Blu-Ray is that just about the time the players and movies become "normal" priced, some whiz kid out there is going to come out with a format that holds twice as much for half the cost. Several such initiatives are already underway.
> 
> AppleTV will be unaffected by changes in HD disc format, since it doesn't use discs. While it is currently limited to 720p/1080i at present, future models will likely support 1080p (and most HDTV owners don't have true 1080p sets anyway).
> 
> In short, I might pick up a cheap Blu-Ray player if they ever got really cheap, but there's absolutely no way I'd re-invest in a large Blu-Ray collection of movies. It's a transitional format at best.


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## kb244 (Apr 23, 2002)

chas_m said:


> The problem with Blu-Ray is that just about the time the players and movies become "normal" priced, some whiz kid out there is going to come out with a format that holds twice as much for half the cost. Several such initiatives are already underway.
> 
> AppleTV will be unaffected by changes in HD disc format, since it doesn't use discs. While it is currently limited to 720p/1080i at present, future models will likely support 1080p (and most HDTV owners don't have true 1080p sets anyway).
> 
> In short, I might pick up a cheap Blu-Ray player if they ever got really cheap, but there's absolutely no way I'd re-invest in a large Blu-Ray collection of movies. It's a transitional format at best.


Blu-Ray players in the last week or so were between 150$ and 200$ ( mainly due to thanksgiving sales). 

But far as new stuff... why do you think blue ray players now have regular firmware updates? (usually every 6 months or so).


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## Clockwork (Feb 24, 2002)

I have never tried Apple TV but have blu-ray on my PS3 and I love it. Apple TV looks neat but with Rogers on Demand I can get many movies instantly. 

I was a member of Zip.ca and for $10.99 I was getting 4 blu-ray movies a month. The only draw back is you can not pick what movie you want when you want it because they send you what is available from the list of movies you are interested in.

I canceled awhile back because I needed to buy something but I will rejoin again in a few months. I only had two discs that did not work, and I just sent it back, and they sent me new ones right away.

Good way to rent cheap blu-rays, and I would highly recommend joining considering what you pay at the video stores.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

Blu-Ray is an old-school delivery method. That's why it's doomed. You don't really need the physical disc in order to get the movie anymore, and this is what AppleTV provides. Download the movie you want to rent (or buy), in regular or HD format, and it's ready to start watching in about a minute. You have 30 days to begin watching at your leisure. Once you begin, you have 48 hours to finish. After 48 hours, the movie disappears off your hard drive, freeing up hard disk space as well as the mucky-muck of returning the movie. Couldn't be easier. It's a business model that will succeed because it is simpler, quite simply. And you can get 1080p on Apple TV if your TV supports it.

So what is the advantage to Blu-Ray exactly?


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

Where's the "Neither" option?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Same here. DVD and that's it. And will be for a loooong time. I am tired of chasing new technology at the whim of manufacturers. Besides, I can't see enough difference between BR and DVD to make it worth shelling out for a new machine and rendering obsolete a collection of over 400 DVD disks.


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## Clockwork (Feb 24, 2002)

There is a lot of people who like to collect movies and have them physically. Not everyone has high speed internet, and many companies such as Rogers have a cap on how much you can download. 

Blu-Ray is going to take off this season. Take a look at the prices for both blu-ray drives and TV's. 

Asking a bunch of Apple fanatics is not likely going to get you a clear picture when it comes to Apple TV vs Blu-Ray. 

Why do so many people have an us vs them attitude on this forum? I say celebrate all technology it is much better that way. Instead of this childish, xbox 360 is better then PS3 attitude that some of the members have. 

I think they will both survive, and cater to what people prefer.


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## keebler27 (Jan 5, 2007)

Clockwork said:


> There is a lot of people who like to collect movies and have them physically. Not everyone has high speed internet, and many companies such as Rogers have a cap on how much you can download.
> 
> Blu-Ray is going to take off this season. Take a look at the prices for both blu-ray drives and TV's.
> 
> ...


i agree with being open to all technology. i think the OP asked this forum b/c apple users tend to be very techie and knowledgeable about tech other than just apple products. at least, that's why i ask such questions from time to time.

myself, i wonder about the future of blu-ray, but heck, i don't even have an HD tv yet so it's a moot point for my house  (although I was drooling at the dropping prices of new TVs 

I still may splurge for an apple TV in January if a new version isn't announced after the expo. who knows


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## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

I'd go with the AppleTV. The price of BluRay is dropping so picking one up later is going to be less of an expense. Beyond this, physical media is slowly waning in popularity. The rise of digital delivery (iTunes, internet, etc) coinciding with the HD/BluRay battle diluted the importance of the battle. Even though BluRay won, acceptance has been poor at best. Maybe as the price drops it will start to take over from DVD but it's not there yet.

Get the AppleTV and hold out to see where BluRay goes before jumping in.


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## mc3251 (Sep 28, 2007)

I have a 46" sharp Aquos 1080p lcd tv. I just purchased a Panny BD 35 blu ray player.
Frankly, I don't care what anyone else says...this thing ROCKS. Never mind the picture...the SOUND is mind boggling with my 5.1 Energy speakers. I have been watching the Planet Earth series...has to be seen to be believed.


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## Clockwork (Feb 24, 2002)

Blu-ray player, HDTV sales to underperform, says Sony

Interesting article on how Blu-ray will fail to meet expectations this year due to the economy. 

I would of never bought either Apple TV or a Blu-ray drive but since it came with the PS3 I can't complain. 

HD is probably going to take some time to become standard especially with the economy but when it does it will be great for both Apple and Blu-ray. 

I would hang on to your hats before thinking that most people prefer digital downloads. When it comes to the video game market, many people like to trade games. Check out Ebgames or other game stores for example, and see how many games people trade in. If it was all digital then people would not get to buy and sell games/ movies.


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

fjnmusic said:


> And you can get 1080p on Apple TV if your TV supports it.
> 
> So what is the advantage to Blu-Ray exactly?


iTunes does not offer video in 1080P, and it will be a while before this happens. The amount of data reuired to carry 1080P is far to large, this is why it will be a long time before you see 1080P come to cable tv. Satellite will be able to provide 1080P but the you'd need fibre optic to your door to bring it through "cable".

Looking at the Specs of the Apple TV, I do not think it supports 1080P. It supports 1080i which is comparable to 720p. (I could be wrong though)

If you get the opporunity to see Blu-Ray on a quality TV that supports 1080P you will understand the differance and it is quite noticeable. To pass judgement wihtout first experiencing it, is wrong to do so.


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## Irie Guy (Dec 2, 2003)

Waiting for my Apple TV to arrive tomorrow. Ordered the 160GB Refurb. Matching it to the 37" Toshiba I picked up on the weekend and Bell is coming tomorrow as well to install the HD PVR. Been a long time since I've spent on my Home Entertainment. The one thing we are really lloking forward to with Apple TV is the ability to slideshow our pics. We take lots of pics of ths kids and up until this point have the lil ones gather on the couch and stare at the laptop. My wife's 12" PB isn't great for this. Really looking forward to showing them on the Big Screen. Of course I also plan to rip all of our commonly watched DVD's and store then on the Apple TV so the kids can stop abusing our discs. I'm not sure if I will ever rent movies my high speed is not so great at home.

Can't wait though.


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## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

Clockwork said:


> I have never tried Apple TV but have blu-ray on my PS3 and I love it. Apple TV looks neat but with Rogers on Demand I can get many movies instantly.


Your definition of "many" is not the same as mine. 

iTMS has more movies, and definitely more older movies. If you are only interested in the latest releases, then I'd say Rogers on Demand is fine, but if you want some older ones too, then AppleTV is the way to go.


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## satchmo (May 26, 2005)

The future is digital downloads. Everything will be distributed that way in the next 5 years. Physical discs will still exist, but will eventually be phased out just like VHS tapes have.

Blu-ray and other physical media is an old school model which the record and movie labels are so used to. It's made them rich for generations, but there's a new distribution model they had better get use to. While AppleTV downloads are decent, once bandwidths get faster, it's still not perfect. The rental model needs more flexibility.

Either solution is a stop gap measure until full 1080 downloads become the standard.


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## Clockwork (Feb 24, 2002)

Rogers on demand is horrible in my opinion. I agree not "many" movies if you want to compare it to Apple and Rogers movies skip at times. On the other hand Apple would just have more movies I am not interested in so having more may not be a selling point for me. 

I was simply stating that getting a digital PVR you can download movies, and for me getting Apple TV when I have Blu-ray and Rogers on demand is a little pointless. Rogers on demand is an option for digital downloads as well as other services. Apple is not the only kid on the block. 

Even if I had Apple TV I think I would still prefer Blu-ray.


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## Clockwork (Feb 24, 2002)

I think your completely wrong to think everything will be downloadable in 5 years if at all (people like having options). When video games for example are 50 GB, then I hardly see people downloading 50 GB games unless the internet connections keep up with the times. 

Not everyone has or can afford high speed internet and many services have caps such as Rogers with their crappy 60 GB. It will not go completely digital because people like to collect movies/ Games/ Music, hard drive/ hardware failures (then you need to re-download file), lack of 1080p for digital, and when it is a wide spread option the 1080p movies are going to be fairly large files in which you will need lots of space, a fast connection and the download cap may be a bottle neck. 

Seems to be a lot of bitter people that HDDVD didn't work out, and a lot of people won't support Blu-ray now but they may have no choice. I still think they both will survive but to say that one will knock off the other seems premature.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

satchmo said:


> The future is digital downloads. Everything will be distributed that way in the next 5 years. Physical discs will still exist, but will eventually be phased out just like VHS tapes have.
> 
> Blu-ray and other physical media is an old school model which the record and movie labels are so used to. It's made them rich for generations, but there's a new distribution model they had better get use to. While AppleTV downloads are decent, once bandwidths get faster, it's still not perfect. The rental model needs more flexibility.
> 
> Either solution is a stop gap measure until full 1080 downloads become the standard.


The one and only way digital downloads will be the sole future of distribution is by some magical way the entire population of North America had excellent broadband service and the means to access with minimal costs, AND allow for massive storage (and backup)--hardware is nowhere close to being dependable enough to warrant it. And even then people will need to find ways to protect their investment.

Digital downloads is an excellent venue for _renting_... but I sincerely doubt it'll become the standard for _owning_ movies. It cannot satisfy all audiences. How much storage will you have after a year... two years... five years? And then you'll have to worry about backups. And what about those who prefer "special" edition releases of movies? I cannot fathom how much I would have to spend to accomodate my entire collection of movies: Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Spider-Man, etc. to name a few. That's already over 80 gigs of video--not even Hi-def video, to boot. And then there's TV shows.

Sure, not everyone cares about that stuff... but there are a lot who do. When you factor all the added bonuses that come with most DVDs, that's a LOT of file-space being gobbled up.


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## jeepguy (Apr 4, 2008)

RunTheWorldOnMac said:


> If you get the opporunity to see Blu-Ray on a quality TV that supports 1080P you will understand the differance and it is quite noticeable. To pass judgement wihtout first experiencing it, is wrong to do so.


I agree, I have both, and as good as the apple TV is, it is night and day compered to *FULL 1080p* content, and I have seen both projected with a Christie Digital Projector.

When I buy, I buy Blu-Ray, when I rent I use apple tv.


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## smellybook (Aug 31, 2006)

*I have had blu-ray since the day the PS3 was released and I*

have not bought one Blu-ray movie yet. I have bought several movies on the Apple T.V however.

My only complaint is the lack of subtitles on the Apple T.V and the lenght of time for rentals. When I rent a movie I like to watch it more than once, so I would like to be able to keep it for 7 days like Blockbuster.


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## satchmo (May 26, 2005)

I still believe the download distribution model is very possible. It really isn't too far away. Videotron in Quebec offers a 50mbps download service for $79/month. A 2gb movie downloads in 5 minutes. Granted, it's compressed, but the transfer rates are getting there...and five years is a long time in the tech world.

Additonally, Obama has pledged to increase high speed connectivity to everyone in the US.

As for storage, terabyte drives are down to $150. And while traditional hard drives may not be the most reliable, there will always be new storage media that grow with the times. Perhaps it's solid state memory. Blu-ray is just one of the many which will come and go. Remember Syquest drives? ;-)

Yes, people will want to keep special editions of movies. Just as there are limited edition books, paintings and collectables. But very little in the digital realm is 'forever'. Digital media erodes over time and we simply move it over to latest storage technology.


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## Garry (Jan 27, 2002)

SINC said:


> Same here. DVD and that's it. And will be for a loooong time. I am tired of chasing new technology at the whim of manufacturers. Besides, I can't see enough difference between BR and DVD to make it worth shelling out for a new machine and rendering obsolete a collection of over 400 DVD disks.


I have 1600 DVDs and they seem to play fine in the Blu-Ray player I bought, so I don't see them obsolete.  Maybe you have DVDs confused with your collection of VHS and Betamax tapes.. they won't play on a blu-ray player.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

The biggest hurdle with digital downloads is DRM; we've already seen what happens when a company closes it's doors--or worse, they shut down one store and open a new one--leaving their customers in a lurch with a product they cannot use.

Another issue is venue: Not all studios want Apple to maintain control of the marketshare. It's just a matter of time before they pull a coup. And then what? Another device to watch your movies with? Digital discs are nice in the sense that you don't have to worry about legacy media. My old DVDs work well on my PS3.

Sure, you can get a 1 Tb drive for $150. But about backups? That $150 dollar drive easily turns into a $300 purchase; or 250 DVD-R discs ($60± -- but that's a lot of time spent backing up purchases!).

Videotron's high-speed internet has a monthly cap of 50 Gb per month. That's almost 50 _standard_ definition movies... not including your usual surfing/email/general file exchanging (upload/download). If you want high-def movies, t'll be about half of that and then you're going to be dinged a per megabyte charge on your bill.

The price for digital movies on-line is not cost-effective at this point. The average movie from Apple is $20... practically the same cost as physical discs from a store, and you get nothing but 1's and 0's--no archive. Of course, you can always get previously viewed movies at a fraction of the cost. Some (edit: DVD) movies are as low as $2.99 ±.

And the last time I checked, iTunes Canada didn't have nearly the library as WalMart, Rogers Video, HMV nor Blockbuster.


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## lindmar (Nov 13, 2003)

I'm pretty sure I'm getting an AppleTV as a gift from my parents in the coming weeks which is great! I think I'll really enjoy it.

I'm still on the fence about blu-ray because I dont see myself replacing my DVD collection any time soon.


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## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

Here's a question for DVD owners. How many of you have watched your DVDs more than 3 or 4 times each? If you haven't, you are better off renting. For me, that's the where the AppleTV shines. Renting is more convenient and often cheaper on AppleTV than going to the store or Rogers On Demand. To rent a current movie in HD on Rogers On Demand, you'll need to pay $7.99. They're $5.99 on iTunes.


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## The G3 Man (Oct 7, 2008)

I think Apple TV has no future, it is a dying technology.


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## jeepguy (Apr 4, 2008)

lindmar said:


> I'm still on the fence about blu-ray because I dont see myself replacing my DVD collection any time soon.


Who said you have to replace your DVD's I have around 1500 dvds, and so far have not replaced one, I just buy new releases on Blu-Ray, sure if it's a great film like Star Wars I would replace it, or some of my other favorite action films.


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## lindmar (Nov 13, 2003)

It's funny.
I have a HUGE DVD collection but we rent all the time.

I'm sure I'll rent often.


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## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

RunTheWorldOnMac said:


> iTunes does not offer video in 1080P, and it will be a while before this happens. The amount of data reuired to carry 1080P is far to large, this is why it will be a long time before you see 1080P come to cable tv. Satellite will be able to provide 1080P but the you'd need fibre optic to your door to bring it through "cable".


I don't buy that. This spring analog broadcast is going away in the US. You're going to see a lot of TV channels converge. Right now for some statinos I have 2 or 3 of the same channel in SD and one in HD. When the US stations stop producing analog feeds, I have a feeling a lot of the SD channels will go away, opening up bandwidth for 1080p channels.


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## lindmar (Nov 13, 2003)

jeepguy said:


> Who said you have to replace your DVD's I have around 1500 dvds, and so far have not replaced one, I just buy new releases on Blu-Ray, sure if it's a great film like Star Wars I would replace it, or some of my other favorite action films.


All my films are GREAT films.


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## jeepguy (Apr 4, 2008)

hayesk said:


> Here's a question for DVD owners. How many of you have watched your DVDs more than 3 or 4 times each? If you haven't, you are better off renting. For me, that's the where the AppleTV shines. Renting is more convenient and often cheaper on AppleTV than going to the store or Rogers On Demand. To rent a current movie in HD on Rogers On Demand, you'll need to pay $7.99. They're $5.99 on iTunes.


I only buy stuff that I feel has *replay value*, many of my dvds I have watched many many times, but I have an apple tv, and use it for rentals only, I would never buy from it.


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

hayesk said:


> I don't buy that. This spring analog broadcast is going away in the US. You're going to see a lot of TV channels converge. Right now for some statinos I have 2 or 3 of the same channel in SD and one in HD. When the US stations stop producing analog feeds, I have a feeling a lot of the SD channels will go away, opening up bandwidth for 1080p channels.


Possible, but I think it will really open more doors for HD, not Blu-Ray (Not yet anyways).


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

jeepguy said:


> Who said you have to replace your DVD's I have around 1500 dvds, and so far have not replaced one, I just buy new releases on Blu-Ray, sure if it's a great film like Star Wars I would replace it, or some of my other favorite action films.


I still have a handful of special edition VHS tapes on the shelf at home. 










I'm a sucker for nostalgia.


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

MannyP Design said:


> I still have a handful of special edition VHS tapes on the shelf at home.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would be willing to take those old worn out dusty VHS tapes off your hands...


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## MACinist (Nov 17, 2003)

I have asked myself the same several times. If you had to choose one over the other: Blu Ray all the way for me. In fact, if you can spend the extra 100-200, get a PS3 where you can stream content to your TV from your Mac wirelessly anyways. Built- in 1080p Blu Ray and gaming. Seamless firmware upgrades. Internet browser access. Exceptional up conversion abilities for standard DVD's. Sorry, Apple TV can't do any of that. And those are huge selling points for me right now. 

1) 1080P: some movies filmed with HDR camera's and with CGI look much better on large TV panel then the Apple TV iTunes content. But ATV is a close second and better then HD Cable and obviously standard DVD. Good quality comparison read here: Apple TV 2.0 vs. Blu-Ray, DVD & HD Cable: The Comparison [updated] | iLounge Article
2) High Speed Broadband, data allowance and throttling: HD content is way too large to be consistently downloading without a really expensive internet plan. You don't need an internet service with BR (unless you want to upgrade firmware but you could also do that via USB key on most players). This is what is impeding the progress and popularity of downloadable content today. Revolutionary changes would have to be made by all ISP's to really have this take off. 
3) Apple TV is limited to Canadian iTunes content, which is horrible.  Although slowly getting better.
4) BR players have come down in prices. You can easily find one between 200 and 250 at retail stores. Movies as well, 20-33 each. And the titles are growing pretty quickly. 
5) Don’t' have to trash your old DVD's. BR players still play DVD's and most up convert them nicely to improve viewing experience. My biggest issue with Apple TV was that it doesn't have a DVD player built in (never mind BR player) to make it a more versatile living room appliance. That's why many like using a MacMini as a HTPC. Has more versatility to justify the cost. 
6) You buy a BR movie or DVD, it's for life. Renting content is renting content. Buying content would require a much larger internal storage capacity to have a real library. 

Apple TV has potential and I don't dismiss it in anyway. Even with broadband issues, a couple of tweaks and it would make it a sure shot; add DVD or BR drive, have the ability to surf and connect a BT keyboard, display in 1080p and I would dump my BR, PS3 in a second. BR and media based content is a transitional technology but the transition will be slow and long unless major things happen which I don't think will anytime soon.


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## jeepguy (Apr 4, 2008)

MannyP Design said:


> I'm a sucker for nostalgia.


All things star wars are great, when it comes out on Blu-Ray that will make the fourth time I re-bought it.  Sadly I sold my Special Edition LD versions when my LD player gave up the ghost.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

RunTheWorldOnMac said:


> I would be willing to take those old worn out dusty VHS tapes off your hands...


From my cold dead hands... 

That reminds me: I need to get the DVD versions of the original (pre-special edition) SW releases.


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## JustAMacUser (Oct 21, 2007)

MACinist said:


> 2) High Speed Broadband, data allowance and throttling: HD content is way too large to be consistently downloading without a really expensive internet plan. You don't need an internet service with BR (unless you want to upgrade firmware but you could also do that via USB key on most players). This is what is impeding the progress and popularity of downloadable content today. Revolutionary changes would have to be made by all ISP's to really have this take off.


I've seen this comment a few times and am curious, exactly how much bandwidth are we talking here? I'm with Cogeco and get 60 GB/month. Until recently, I exceeded that almost every month (about 70 GB on average). Once I received a notification warning me of going over (I was at 85 GB). But it's never been a problem (no overage fees either). Speed is very good most of the time. There's also a business plan that allows 120 GB/month at roughly the same price, if I ever needed more.

Exactly how much bandwidth do people (not necessarily you) actually need to satisfy your movie cravings? (I'm asking that genuinely and not adversarially because I really don't rent more than 1 - 3 movies a month from iTunes.)



MACinist said:


> 3) Apple TV is limited to Canadian iTunes content, which is horrible. Although slowly getting better.


I agree. The selection is horrible in the Canadian store. I'm not sure what the hold up for good stuff is since Canada is not that different than the USA in terms of movie release schedules.



MACinist said:


> Apple TV has potential and I don't dismiss it in anyway. Even with broadband issues, a couple of tweaks and it would make it a sure shot; add DVD or BR drive...


I agree. Apple TV has a lot of potential--it definitely needs some growth though--but if one is a die hard movie enthusiast the Apple TV is probably not enough, or even the best choice. For the casual user (which probably includes myself) it's a good compromise on price and convenience.


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

jeepguy said:


> All things star wars are great, when it comes out on Blu-Ray that will make the fourth time I re-bought it.  Sadly I sold my Special Edition LD versions when my LD player gave up the ghost.


I did some Googlin' last week to see if the Star Wars movies had been released in Blu-Ray and Lucas says not to hold your breath..it ain't coming anytime soon.


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## MACinist (Nov 17, 2003)

RunTheWorldOnMac said:


> I did some Googlin' last week to see if the Star Wars movies had been released in Blu-Ray and Lucas says not to hold your breath..it ain't coming anytime soon.


Yeah, he made that comment for both BR and HD-DVD when the rival was at it's peak. Clone Wars (animated) is on Blu Ray. It's a matter of time for the others really... 



> George Lucas: There seems to be a myth amongst some fans that we are planning to release all six films together in one package for DVD. That would cost over seventy dollars per unit. Nobody could afford it. We have to price our merchandise to sell in massive numbers. Lucasfilm is a corporate entity. We need to maximize earnings in order to stay in business. We will NEVER release all six films as a box set on the current DVD technology because most fans already own the films on DVD. There is no market for your suggestion. You will have to wait for the Blu-Ray or HD DVD markets to fully mature before we will consider releasing all six Star Wars films as one package.


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

MACinist said:


> Yeah, he made that comment for both BR and HD-DVD when the rival was at it's peak. Clone Wars (animated) is on Blu Ray. It's a matter of time for the others really...


Clone Wars is new, the rest of the movies would have to be converted to Blu-Ray; Lucas Arts would have to look at the return on investment on performing the conversion.


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## MacGenius24 (Mar 4, 2008)

Apple TV


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## lindmar (Nov 13, 2003)

Just thought I'd come back and say, last night I was given an 160GB Apple TV from my parents for my birthday.

Spent an hour or so watching trailers, pretty awesome. The HD quality is really really nice.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

I'm really enjoying my BluRay player so far. The quality of 1080p is really nice. 

I am looking forward to getting an Apple TV, but will wait until after Macworld. Hoping Steve does something cool and shows me something I didn't even know I wanted.  

Rogers PVR, program guide, On demand service etc.. is utter crap.


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## mc3251 (Sep 28, 2007)

I love my new BluRay player...it's a Panny BD35 so it does Profile 2 stuff. I love the sound quality. 
I like my Shaw PVR although I surely agree that the on demand stuff sucks. We really need more competition in the cable industry in this country.


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## [email protected] (Sep 24, 2007)

ehMax said:


> Rogers PVR, program guide, On demand service etc.. is utter crap.


Wait, explain that please?

On Demand seems very reliable (I've had it for a few years), and in terms of content per dollar it blows away the iTunes store...What does the movie network cost per month? like $22~ from Rogers for the Movie channels and On demand service??

That's like renting 4 movies on iTunes (which you have all teh restrictions) or whatever 30-40 movies the movie network (plus TV shows, HBO content, etc) that are playing that month...

I agree, the menu/program guide on teh PRV isn't as nice as it could be, but it works and is reliable...


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

mc3251 said:


> I love my new BluRay player...it's a Panny BD35 so it does Profile 2 stuff. I love the sound quality.
> I like my Shaw PVR although I surely agree that the on demand stuff sucks. We really need more competition in the cable industry in this country.


I've got the BD35 too. It really is a nice unit. For some reason, I can't get the bonus BD live stuff to work on my Incredible Hulk Blu Ray though. Think I have to register or something somewhere first. So many manuals to have a look through.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Re: PVR Menus;

I agree--I would love an opportunity to design the GUI for the PVR. It's such a cold and hideous thing to have to deal with. We have the HD PVR (Atlantic Scientific 8300HD I believe) and the menus are too big for the size of our screen. So much real estate wasted.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> Wait, explain that please?
> 
> On Demand seems very reliable (I've had it for a few years), and in terms of content per dollar it blows away the iTunes store...What does the movie network cost per month? like $22~ from Rogers for the Movie channels and On demand service??
> 
> ...


I don't have HBO / TMN, but if you get that for ~$22 then you get all-you-can eat On demand for movies and HBO content? If that's so, that's a good deal and will look into that. 

My beefs with the Rogers HD experience is:
- Program guide. Looks like something from the 80's and graphics from a Vic 20. So hard to decipher what channel I'm looking at. No idea if its a program that I can actually get or not. So hard to tell if I'm looking at NBC, or the Discover Channel, everything is a 5 letter abbreviation. I'm used to the Tivo program guide which is beautiful. 
- PVR functions are very basic, and have the same UI problems. Again, used to Tivo. Difference is like using Mac vs Windows 95. 
- The Rogers remote. Whoever designed it should be shot. Awful placement of buttons and functions. Again, used to the Tivo remote. 

Anyways... There needs to be competition in this space as Rogers is just going to offer mediocrity until they have competition.


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## [email protected] (Sep 24, 2007)

ehMax said:


> I don't have HBO / TMN, but if you get that for ~$22 then you get all-you-can eat On demand for movies and HBO content? If that's so, that's a good deal and will look into that.
> 
> My beefs with the Rogers HD experience is:
> - Program guide. Looks like something from the 80's and graphics from a Vic 20. So hard to decipher what channel I'm looking at. No idea if its a program that I can actually get or not. So hard to tell if I'm looking at NBC, or the Discover Channel, everything is a 5 letter abbreviation. I'm used to the Tivo program guide which is beautiful.
> ...


Well, you get unlimited usage of the Movie Network on Demand, which has most of the content on the movie network/HBO on it...For $22 it's pretty good.. but ya the menus aren't that nice looking (although highly functioning)

I really want to like the Apple TV (enough to justify buying one), but for the limited amount of times I want to stream content from my computer (my Xbox does it also, but it's hardly as seamless, but does work well), and the limited (none) video content I buy off iTunes...I can't justify it, there are just better options out there...


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## mc3251 (Sep 28, 2007)

What makes me unhappy about the movie network, at least in BC, is that most of the content is pan and scan, not wide screen. This totally sucks.
The HD is certainly getting better, although we were plagued by sound drop offs for the first few months....


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

I actually didn't mind the Rogers guide. the channels were grouped together and was fairly intuitive. The Cogeco guide however is the worst, I went with Bell (which I also hate, but hate less) for this reason and the fact that the channel layout has no intuitiveness, the channels are all scattered all over.


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