# Mechanical keyboards



## Guest (Apr 11, 2011)

So I've pretty much given up holding my breath waiting for the "Truly Ergonomic" keyboard that I ordered (and pre-paid for) to arrive .. they've missed 3 ship dates so far and still don't even have a prototype in their hands! (but that's another story).

I decided to investigate some decent mechanical keyboards in the meantime ... these rubber done keyboards really don't work well for me, I either miss a lot of key presses or have to beat on them so hard that I both hurt my hands and wear them out quickly. Up until now I've been using the Microsoft Ergonomic 4000 (split ergo keyboard) and aside from the poor quality rubber domes I like the layout of it, but I go through them about every 6 months or so and it's time to replace my current one as it's pretty hurting.

The first up, which just arrived this morning is a Matias Tactile Pro 3, which is a knock off of the old Apple Extended II keyboard with the beautiful Alps switches. You know, the really noisy ones! While I'm not enthused that much about the sound of them I do love the feel and the accuracy and speed increase I get from typing on them. You get proper tactile response from the keys so you know when the key-press has actually occurred, unlike any of the rubber dome keyboards.

Matias Tactile Pro 3


I've also ordered a "Das Keyboard" ... I went for the Professional S Silent model, which use Cherry MX switches (brown in this case) and should be a bit quieter than the Alps switches in the Matias. I was seriously thinking about the ultimate (the one without anything stencilled on the keys) -- I touch type, but when it comes to numbers and symbols I kind of need to see things so I went with the laser etched one instead. The Das Keyboard should arrive in a couple more days.

Das Keyboard: The mechanical keyboard that clicks


Anyone else here interested in mechanical keyboards? I'm going to put these through their paces ... I've read good and bad about both.


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## lookitsmarc (Feb 2, 2008)

I love my mechanical keyboard, a Unicomp Spacesaver. Unicomp bought the patent from IBM to make buckling spring keyboards much like IBM's Model M.


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2011)

Nice. I saw a few reviews of them and they were great. I loved those boards. The typing experience is so much better for me when you can actually feel the keys actuate instead of squishy rubber domes.

So far so good, I really really love the Tactile Pro 3. It's really loud though, so no more talking on speakerphone with a client while typing stuff  But I knew that it was going to be very loud going into the game. I might just have to keep a small wireless stealth keyboard around in a different spot on the desk for when on the phone 

Hope to have the Das Keyboard tomorrow which is should be a bit quieter than this one ... so the das keyboard (if it feels anywhere near as good) could probably end up in my office and this one can stay attached to my MBP in my library -- that is if the wife doesn't go mad listening to it  The good news on that front is that just after I set it up to test she sat down in front of it, typed for about 3 minutes and absolutely loved it (she had one of those oldschool IBM keyboards for about 12 years).


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## tendim (Apr 6, 2004)

Low End Mac has a number of Keyboard articles that some folks might find interesting:



The Best Alternatives to Apple's USB Keyboards
Has 'the Best Keyboard Apple Ever Made' Been Resurrected?
IBM Model M: The Best Computer Keyboard Ever
IBM Model M: The One True Keyboard
Oddly enough, I find my old school Commodore 128 keyboard a breeze to type on, but that could be because I am so accustomed to it after 15+ years of typing. I find that keyboard design is also affected by the N-Rollover routines that the OS uses -- this can be customized. Using a special patch on my Commodore, I could get upwards of 20 extra words per minute, all because of software. It's interesting that nobody ever thinks of rewriting keyboard drivers nowadays.


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2011)

The biggest issue for key rollover (once you get past the super cheapo controller boards and matrix) is the USB standard. You're stuck with 6+4 key rollover as far as I know no matter what because of protocol limitations. I know in doing the research for all of this stuff I ran into a lot of discussion that seemed to point at this being the problem for sure, and several keyboards advertise full N key rollover when using it PS/2 but 6+4 when using the same model through USB.

This wasn't a problem for ADB, I believe the Extended and Extended II keyboards were full N key rollover.

I don't remember the Commodore 128 keyboard ... was it mechanical? My guess would be yes ...


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2011)

So I got the Das Keyboard Professional Silent model which Cherry MX brown switches ... and the verdict is ... I don't really like it all that much. It's a much better typing experience than the rubber dome keyboards, but it's nowhere near as good, at least for me, as the Tactile Pro 3 is (which I still absolutely love). I'm regretting getting the "silent" model with the cherry mx brown's now, I wish that I had picked up the one with the cherry mx blue's (which apparently provide more tactile feedback at the price of being louder). I don't completely dislike the das keyboard, but I don't really love it either ... it's not worth the price for me.

Anyone got a cherry mx blue based mechanical keyboard that they wanna trade for this brand new das keyboard with cherry mx browns?


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

Nice to read about some first hand action on these keyboards. The Tactile Pro v.1 ultimately cracked under my usage. I got a v.3 that is really still in its package.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I love my MS Office keyboard - have had it for years and - huge but solid and great tactile feedback. The normally nubbly palm rest is polished like mother of pearl from the thousands of hours of use.

They are still around new if you hunt 
Highly recommended and the software is decent for productivity.



> Microsoft Office Keyboard Model RT9450, P/N: X08-04553
> 
> Single Touch Pad - One-touch access to everyday commands. Cut, Copy, and Paste. Back and Forward for quick Internet browsing. Application Toggle to switch between windows.
> Office XP Integration - Access to Office programs, such as Word, Excel, and Outlook. Task Pane key opens the Office XP task pane, putting relevant features for common tasks just a touch away.
> ...


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2011)

MacDoc said:


> I love my MS Office keyboard - have had it for years and - huge but solid and great tactile feedback. The normally nubbly palm rest is polished like mother of pearl from the thousands of hours of use.
> 
> They are still around new if you hunt
> Highly recommended and the software is decent for productivity.


Are they actually mechanical keys though? I'm not so much being a snob for mechanical keys, but I've never found a rubber domed keyboard that last me much longer than 6 months, ever.

I'm getting more used to the Das keyboard over time (I have it attached to my laptop and am currently typing on it). I think I would have been much happier with the cherry mx blue (clicky) keys on it though. Still loving the Tactile pro though.

Now, if Truly Ergonomic ever gets their act together and starts shipping their keyboards I might be even happier ... they let me change my order from cherry mx browns to blues.


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## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

mguertin said:


> Are they actually mechanical keys though? I'm not so much being a snob for mechanical keys, but I've never found a rubber domed keyboard that last me much longer than 6 months, ever.
> 
> I'm getting more used to the Das keyboard over time (I have it attached to my laptop and am currently typing on it). I think I would have been much happier with the cherry mx blue (clicky) keys on it though. Still loving the Tactile pro though.
> 
> Now, if Truly Ergonomic ever gets their act together and starts shipping their keyboards I might be even happier ... they let me change my order from cherry mx browns to blues.


Do you type heavily? I've been using the same keyboard for a few years now, and it's got rubber bits inside. Never had an issue.

I've seen the way some people type, bashing on the keys as if they're trying to break something...


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2011)

John Clay said:


> Do you type heavily? I've been using the same keyboard for a few years now, and it's got rubber bits inside. Never had an issue.
> 
> I've seen the way some people type, bashing on the keys as if they're trying to break something...


No, not at all, that's the funny part of it all, I'm a pretty light touch as far as that goes. I think it's something to do with the angle of my fingers when the keys actually depress or something that wears out the rubber and ultimately causes the keys to more easily jam up or not fully depress.

Also of note, after 6 months the keyboard is not non-functional ... but a lot of the keys require more force or special attention in order to properly depress which is a real PITA. For me that means a lot of missed key strokes and/or incorrect/multiple key strokes (keys seem to sort of jam together a bit once the keyboard gets worn to this point). This is particularly true of, but not limited to, all of those lovely keys that coders use a lot, like ; : ' " [] {} () , the space bar, return key and the tab key (of all things!). Lots of those are mostly in the same area of the keyboard too and for me having to use more force for those keys is super super annoying, so it's either business as usual and a lot more syntax errors or replace the keyboard and be happy for another 6 months


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## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

mguertin said:


> No, not at all, that's the funny part of it all, I'm a pretty light touch as far as that goes. I think it's something to do with the angle of my fingers when the keys actually depress or something that wears out the rubber and ultimately causes the keys to more easily jam up or not fully depress.
> 
> Also of note, after 6 months the keyboard is not non-functional ... but a lot of the keys require more force or special attention in order to properly depress which is a real PITA. For me that means a lot of missed key strokes and/or incorrect/multiple key strokes (keys seem to sort of jam together a bit once the keyboard gets worn to this point). This is particularly true of, but not limited to, all of those lovely keys that coders use a lot, like ; : ' " [] {} () , the space bar, return key and the tab key (of all things!). Lots of those are mostly in the same area of the keyboard too and for me having to use more force for those keys is super super annoying, so it's either business as usual and a lot more syntax errors or replace the keyboard and be happy for another 6 months


Interesting... any particular brand that keeps failing? I've been happy with my Apple Aluminum USB keyboard.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Mark come over and try it - and it's at least 4 years old - maybe more


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2011)

John Clay said:


> Interesting... any particular brand that keeps failing? I've been happy with my Apple Aluminum USB keyboard.


Lately it has been Microsoft Ergo 4000's that failed (4 in 2.5 years). I've also had the same issues in the past with quite a few other brands including Apple and Logitech as well as lesser known brands.

I haven't worn out any of the aluminum Apple keyboards .. but I haven't used them as my main keyboards because I don't like the feel of them. I hate the one on my macbook pro and have typing issues with it all the time. I miss keystrokes constantly because they give tactile feedback before they actually trigger quite often. I also really really dislike flat keytops, I prefer the ones with the slight curve to them so that they guide my fingers to the middle of the keys.

I think I just have some really weird typing habits at the end of the day.


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2011)

MacDoc said:


> Mark come over and try it - and it's at least 4 years old - maybe more


I will try it when I'm there next. The thing is I don't mind the feel of a lot of the rubber dome keyboards (as long as the tactile response is reasonably accurate), I just kill them after longer periods of usage!


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## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

I have an ADB Apple Extended Keyboard II in my closet. Unfortunately, there's no way to use it on a current Mac. Griffin stopped supporting their USB-ADB adapter in MacOS X 10.3.


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## wwj (May 21, 2003)

hayesk said:


> I have an ADB Apple Extended Keyboard II in my closet. Unfortunately, there's no way to use it on a current Mac. Griffin stopped supporting their USB-ADB adapter in MacOS X 10.3.





One of my setups (Power Mac G4 AGP running Panther 10.3.9 and Classic 9.2.2) has an Extended II with the Griffin adapter, and it still gets plenty of use. I bought that keyboard with an LCIII in 1992. It's a tank. Every 5 years or so I remove the keys for a thorough cleaning. The only flaw after nearly 2 decades: sometimes the Caps Lock misbehaves. 

It's a cliché, but they don't make'm like that anymore. My main setup is an iMac with a full keyboard, which is ok, but i can see the wear on it after just 1 1/2 years. And of course, it's not user serviceable. Same thing with Apple Mouse. Oh well...that's progress.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

John Clay said:


> Interesting... any particular brand that keeps failing? I've been happy with my Apple Aluminum USB keyboard.


Same here....


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2011)

screature said:


> Same here....


As I stated above though, I don't really like those keyboards personally. I have trouble typing accurately on them. I did like the powerbook keyboard for a while (when they used knife blade type switches). I had a couple of Macally Ice keyboards that used the same types of switches, but they weren't as robust as the actual powerbook keyboards and I killed them within a few months each (they were actually incredibly cheaply made even though they felt great)


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## Izzy (Apr 14, 2008)

mguertin said:


> I'm getting more used to the Das keyboard over time (I have it attached to my laptop and am currently typing on it). I think I would have been much happier with the cherry mx blue (clicky) keys on it though. Still loving the Tactile pro though.


Now that some time has passed, how are you liking the Tactile Pro? Is it your main keyboard or have you moved on to something else?

I've been using the full sized Apple aluminum keyboard for a couple of years but lately my hands have been getting sore if I type a lot during a day. I haven't used a mechanical keyboard in years but I'm thinking that a slightly longer keystroke that doesn't bottom out as much might make for a better experience.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

7 years and still going strong 

Microsoft Office Keyboard tho I'm now 90% on the laptops 13" Air and 17" Unibody - beauty and the beast.....both have their points.

12" G4 Powerbook certainly was the best of the lappies for feel


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## Niteshooter (Aug 8, 2008)

Have to admit I don't like the feel of the aluminum keyboards either, I'm a lot slower on them. 

I still use the grey USB keyboard that shipped with the original G4 PowerMac, it has that 'clickity' feel the ADB extended keyboards had. Never broken one yet.


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## Guest (Aug 20, 2011)

I'm not using my Tactile Pro any longer, it was a bit too resistant and loud. A lot more so than the original ADB extended keyboards where (I put them side by side for testing). It's a very nice keyboard and all but not my choice for daily usage. It's honestly wicked loud and even though it's made with similar components it doesn't feel the same as my old ADB II extended does. Maybe I just need to type on it for a few years to get it broken in LOL. My wife was actually starting to complain because she could hear it late at night on the second floor of our house when I was working late. I didn't believe her that it was that loud upstairs, but she went and typed on it and I went upstairs and wow.

My daily usage keyboards are a DasKeyboard silent model (Cherry MX Brown switches) on my MBP setup and a Microsoft ergo 4000 on my main setup (I've gone through another one on that setup since I've posted on this thread). I really like the feel of the switches on the DasKeyboard but I really wish it was ergo shaped. Typing for too long a time on flat keyboards is hard on my hands.

Also still no sign of the Truly Ergonomic that I payed for way back when. Apparently they are "almost" ready to ship -- last we all heard from them they had prototypes in hand (again, for the third time) of the "final" version and they had promised shipping in July. Going on the end of august right now and nothing from them as far as that goes yet, not even another promised shipping date that they won't hit.

I have just plugged in a brand new ergo 4000 keyboard and I have one more that I picked up on a clearance sale a while back. If I don't have the Truly Ergonomic keyboard by the time I put the last 4000 in place my lawyer will probably be having to take over on chasing those buggers down. I did actually ask them for a refund twice now, but they refused and asked me to "be patient". I'm wondering if the whole thing isn't some sort of scam and just before they ship they go bankrupt or something.

MacDoc: That keyboard is NOT a mechanical one ... it's great that you've used it so long and that it's aged so well, but mechanical keyboards are a totally different feel from even good rubber dome based ones.


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## Izzy (Apr 14, 2008)

How does the resistance on the Tactile Pro compare to an IBM model M? I've used one of those more recently than an Apple Extended II so it's easier for me to make a comparison. 

If you were to do it over again, would you buy the DasKeyboard with blue switches instead?

Sorry for all the questions, but I can't get my hands on any of these keyboards locally to take them for a test drive. They're not cheap so I want to make sure I'm well informed before I take the plunge.


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## Chas3 (Jul 14, 2007)

I currently use a Dell AT101w on my Main PC, which features black Alps switches coming from a Model M which sadly is out of commission. Don't waste your money on Sub 200 dollar mechanical keyboards, unless you're buying a Model M, Unicomp or Dell AT101w, they simply don't compare. Look at Ducky and Topre Realforce keyboards, and if you can stomach the price, Happy Hacking.


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## Guest (Aug 20, 2011)

I haven't used an M keyboard for a long while, so hard to say. Pretty sure the Tactile Pro is closer to the old Apple keyboards though -- it uses the White Alps switches (same as the apple ones did) and the M series used a different (but similar) buckling switch, the Black Alps. There are a few pretty good resources out there talking about the differences between the switch types. For me honestly they are all much better than rubber dome, so it probably depends on how fussy you are at the end of the day.

As for the Cherry MX Brown (silent) vs. Blue (clicky) that's tough -- and just to complicate things more there's also Cherry MX blacks available on many keyboards (which are linear instead of tactile). I find the brown gives me enough tactile response to make me happy, I rarely miss keystrokes with it which is the important thing to me -- when I feel like I have depressed the key properly it always registers (which is often not the case with rubber dome keyboards). Both brown and blue feel good, but if you're looking specifically for the click response go for something with the blues. The brown is still a bit loud (there's a lot of sound for just the key actuation without the click) but the blues can get quite a lot louder depending on your typing style. I do have a keyboard here with blues but I can't give you a good comparison of them because that particular keyboard is so _terrible_ because of other reasons that I just don't use it. The key spacing is off/strange -- it's some sort of gamer keyboard so I guess they were more worried about getting additional keys on the left hand side that they were not as worried about keeping the spacing/layout correct. Given that issue I hate it, but not because of the switches in the keys  I just can't spend enough time trying to use it to get the proper feeling for them.

I'm seriously considering picking up a DasKeyboard with blues at some point, if I do I'll report back here ... but if I do it probably won't be for a while. My Truly Ergonomic, if it ever arrives, will have blue's in it too.

If you're just wanting something with better tactile response and durability I think either would work ok for you.


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## Guest (Aug 20, 2011)

Chas3 said:


> I currently use a Dell AT101w on my Main PC, which features black Alps switches coming from a Model M which sadly is out of commission. Don't waste your money on Sub 200 dollar mechanical keyboards, unless you're buying a Model M, Unicomp or Dell AT101w, they simply don't compare. Look at Ducky and Topre Realforce keyboards, and if you can stomach the price, Happy Hacking.


The latest happy hacking boards have no arrow keys! That's a deal breaker for me. I haven't found a supplier for any of the others that you mention. The specs on the Topre Realforce look interesting, but they are an odd switch design and still use rubber domes, dunno how they would feel (but they do have springs so that's a good thing).

What I really, really want is for the Truly Ergonomic guys to get their act together to try them. I want the ergo form factor and layouts AND I want a compact (tenkeyless) layout so I can keep my tackpad closer to my keyboard. If Truly Ergonomic can't pull it off hopefully someone can because the choice of that particular split keyboard type layout is more and more limited every year.

As for the sub $200 I'm still pretty impressed with the DasKeyboard, but I haven't had it or put enough miles on it yet to give it the full thumbs up. For a standard 105 key flat layout it's pretty good though and the price is not too bad.


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## Chas3 (Jul 14, 2007)

Ducky is pretty hard to find, and Topre switches are generally regarded as the best mixture between the feel of the Model M (My favourite feeling) and Cherry MX Blues. They're used in Happy Hacking keyboards.


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2011)

Chas3 said:


> Ducky is pretty hard to find, and Topre switches are generally regarded as the best mixture between the feel of the Model M (My favourite feeling) and Cherry MX Blues. They're used in Happy Hacking keyboards.


Ahh yep now that I read the specs on those new happy hacking ones I see you're right. Do you know of any other options that are the split keyboard style that have real switches?


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

You seen this MG












> Now enjoy the gaming experience with more joy with the Blackwidow™ Mechanical Gaming Keyboard from Razer™.* Its full mechanical key architecture* provides a distinctive tactile feedback that simulates the experience and precision of performing a mouse click, giving gamers an entirely innovative feel with this keyboard. With its optimized actuation force of 50g and an actuation point halfway down the full travel distance of 4mm, the Razer BlackWidow’s keys deliver crisp response with exceptional actuation speed. Plus, an ultra robust construction, fully programmable keys, 5 additional macro keys, and on-the-fly macro recording, round off this revolutionary gaming keyboard. Also offers 1000Hz Ultrapolling™ for a blistering fast 1 ms response time. Now, the fate of your game is all at your fingertips with the BlackWidow Mechanical Gaming Keyboard.



there are also several covered in Tom's Hardware including a good visual of a mechanical switch.

not a single ergonomic in the mix here

ErgoGeek - Cherry MX key switch Mechanical Keyboard

Tho I like the idea of a backlit one. Generally hate all black.
This has the wrist pad and with backlit might be tolerable.
















SteelSeries 6Gv2: Test : Five Mechanical-Switch Keyboards: Only The Best For Your Hands

had to laugh at this send up on the M15










good link to a mechanical kb compendium

Default:START HERE --> The Geekhack Mechanical Keyboard Guide - Includes Glossary and Links - geekhack forums


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## Chas3 (Jul 14, 2007)

THe Razer Blackwidow is a horrible "riced out" mechanical keyboard that uses cheap switches at typical razer quality. Do not buy this. Stay away from any backlit mechanical keyboard in general, they are usually quite gimmicky. Stick with known brands like Topre, Filco, Happy Hacking, or vintage keyboards like the Model M or Dell AT101w


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2011)

The one I mentioned that I have with the Cherry MX Blue's that I HATE is a Razer (I think the one I have is called the "ultimate" or something like that). They are very cheap and as I said before the key spacing is very odd/wrong. Luckily I didn't spend much on it as I got it on sale at something like 50% off when Canada computers had a big door crasher sale when they opened a new location.

Here's a place that I reference all the time for mechanical keyboards, they seem to keep it fairly up to date as well:
Mechanical Keyboard Guide - Overclock.net - Overclocking.net


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2011)

I just ordered a Leopold Tenkeyless with Cherry MX blue's. The reviews I read on the Leopold's were pretty favorable for a cheap board and lots of people said they were pretty close to their Filco's so I figured it's worth a shot. Can't be worse than the Razor (I just tried it again and it lasted almost a full minute this time!). 

I also gave the Matias a try again this evening and it's definitely not for me. I may post it up in the classifieds, or if anyone is interested drop me a PM.


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## Izzy (Apr 14, 2008)

I ordered the Matias on the weekend and it just shipped yesterday, otherwise I'd be interested in buying yours. 

I went back and forth between the Matias and the DasKeyboard with Blues. In, the end I decided to go with the Matias because of the strong review on TidBITS and because it's based on an Apple keyboard. The sound isn't an issue for me and I think I type hard enough so that the resistance won't be a problem. I have fond memories of typing on those old Apple keyboards. I guess I'm about to find out if there is a good reason for that or just nostalgia. 

Let us know how the Leopold works out. I'd be interested in hearing how it compares to the others. That Happy Hacking keyboard is really interesting as well. I just don't know if I could get by on a small keyboard though.


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2011)

I prefer the small keyboard (so my mouse/trackpad is closer), but the HHKB wouldn't work for me as I'm lost without arrow keys :/ I'll let you know how the Leopold works out for me.


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## Izzy (Apr 14, 2008)

Das Keyboard just came out with a Mac version of their Model S Professional. 
Buy Das Keyboard Model S Professional For Mac

I'm loving my Tactile Pro but one of these is sure tempting.


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