# Why I hate FutureShop (a reminder)…



## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

I’ll admit that I do buy equipment there every once and awhile, mostly because of lost leaders they offer.

Three months ago, I ordered a pair of Altec Lansing speakers from them (model FX6021 – the ones that match the Mac look nicely). A few days ago, the speakers stopped working – yes, less than 3 months after I received them….

The first thing I did was call Altec Lansing, who told me to get in touch with Future Shop (as shipping and brokerage fees would be outrageous for a repair they informed me). 
No problem, I call up FS customer service who informs me that these can be returned for an exchange (if they have the same ones in stock at the store), an over the counter exchange (for a similar or superior model) or repair.

So I made my way to FS, waited dutifully in line speakers in hand. The CS rep informs me that these are only web only item and that they don’t carry them in their stores. So I ask about sending out for repairs – well I start getting the run around…

I ask to speak to the store manager – after a long wait, she comes along. I’m explained that yes she can send them out but it may take 3 months to come back and “they” will likely not be able to repair them. I ask about my other options: refund or an exchange. I ask what they are offering as an exchange, she comes back a few moments later (after consulting with her computers specialist she tells me) with the Altec Lansing VS4121. Close, but I inform her nicely that these are hardly in the same league and I could not accept those. She comes back with the ugliest speakers I have seen in awhile (I-Trique 3400). In the end, it seems that the only solution is to get a refund.

The FX6021 were not the greatest computer speakers but I’m pissed at the poor quality of Customer service from Future Shop and Altec Lansing for the difficulty of getting these repaired. – has it come to the point that all computer items are disposable?


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## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

Sorry but I fail to see how FutureShop failed you here. If they don't carry a product in store, how can they offer you a straight up exchange. They tried to make you happy with other product options and I don't think they were trying to rip you. Waht would be wrong with a refund so that you could put the money towards a replacement? Why not go home and buy another set online? If you had bought those online through Amazon or anyone without a brick and mortar you would have been on the hook for shipping regardless of the problem.


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## silentsim (Apr 15, 2006)

I also dont see why this is Futureshop's fault--unless you purchased there Service Plan. After 30 days, they dont bother with it anymore, and the customer must rely on the manufacturer warranty. Im actually very suprised the manager let you exchange or refund.


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## fellfromtree (May 18, 2005)

That sounds like good service, good deal.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

I would have preferred to have repaired. How hard is it to send out for repair? Heck, they can special order them if they want to do an exchange – I was ready to wait 3 months. 
Part of the problem with FS maybe that the web unit is independent of the “brick and mortar” store BUT this should not be a concern of the client as they are promoted as one identity…
You have Altec telling me that the store that sold the unit should be taking care of the return, you have FS online policy stating the same thing.
As for the rip-off: “We’d like to replace 249$US (msrp) with a 99$US (msrp) speakers” – straight no refund in price difference as they are equivalent in FS eyes…. 

You can also compare the CS from FutureShop with a few other companies. A few years ago, I had a SIEMENS lan line phone stop working. Called the CS, they send a new unit (did not even take down a credit card), send a packing slip with instructions on how to return the defective unit. A few months age a G-Raid unit I had stopped working, I was send a replacement unit and asked to send back the defective unit only after I had received the new product – none of these hassles.


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## Jacklar (Jul 23, 2005)

Futureshop has terrible CS.. 

30 day warranties = crap. If I'm spending money on a product I expect the company to stand by it. I shouldn't have to pay warranty on it for an extra 30 days.

Products should come standard with 1 year warranty. And then extended warranty is an option.


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## Puccasaurus (Dec 28, 2003)

I have to agree....that doesn't like terrible service at all. Maybe you should be mad at Altec for making speakers that broke so soon?


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

But the products usually DO come with a one year warranty, from the manufacturer. The fact that most items can be returned, pretty much no questions asked, for a FULL refund, is what sets FutureShop and BestBuy apart from most every other similar store.

I'm surprised that the store offered a full refund 3 months later. Most other stores would argue, correctly, that they have no idea what condition the item was used under: was it run 24 hours a day? in direct sunlight? next to a hydroelectric dam? across the hall from a swimming pool?

For example, for electronic equipment, places like CanadaComputers may have better prices, but walk out of the store having bought something, and walk back in having changed your mind, and there will be a whopping "restocking" fee. After that, you can mostly forget it; you bought it and it's yours.

And once in a while those "lost leaders" [sic] at FutureShop make the purchase entirely worthwhile. Customer service may suck, and suck badly, but a full refund after this period of time, and not from the manufacturer but the store, is extraordinary.


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

Last year at boxing day we bought a colour laser printer. The fuser was dead out of the box. Future shop refused to do anything with it as it was bought online. Just getting the item was a hassle in the first place with them refusing to ship to me in Toronto because my billing address is in Waterloo.
Future Shop refused to handle an exchange even though they had this unit in stock at other stores. The web store wouldn't handle a return either.
luckily Konica /Minolta was willing to stand by their product and ship us a new printer right away but talk about lame CS! Brand new and Future Shop wouldn't not honor their warranty! They are truly a dishonest company.


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> ...
> The FX6021 were not the greatest computer speakers but I’m pissed at the poor quality of Customer service from Future Shop and Altec Lansing for the difficulty of getting these repaired. – has it come to the point that all computer items are disposable?


Yes it has. Simply do the math. Product was probably made in Taiwan, with average salary around $1,000 US per month or $6 per hour or less. To repair the product, you will need to pay North American rates which average to be $80 per hour for repairs. 

It is common knowledge that very few electronic items less than $500 are repaired. There is no way that anyone can justify the costs vs. the price of a brand new replacement. I don't like it myself, because that junk ends up in landfills, but what is the alternative? Even if it is repaired, you send your unit in and get somebody else's repaired unit back. Yours goes to the end of the line, waiting for the next time that batch is repaired.

Prices have come way down on most peripherals. Our average wages keep going up. We continue to see cost of living increases, that while small, they are still in the 2-3% range each year. So why is a colour printer cheaper today than it was 5 years ago? Did they find some magical new material to use? No, the products are made with cheaper components, with higher failure rates, and less customer service. And they are sold at Big Box retailers who know little about the products they sell. I'm not blaming them for that, because they are big box retailers. The idea is that less staff, bigger stores with more products, more self serve. LESS CUSTOMER SERVICE. 

If you don't like it, don't shop at a big box retailer. There are plenty of smaller retailers still around who know their products inside and out. We have the fortune to have many of them as regulars here. Patronize those retailers. Oh, they might charge a little more. Hmmm, does the saying "you get what you pay for" come to mind? There is a cost to providing that extra level of customer service or product knowledge. 

And I'm amazed that you would compare an Altec Lansing speaker purchased from a Big Box retailer with a Siemans phone. You're not even comparing apples and apples there. 

I thought that the customer service you received from Future Shop was surprisingly good based on their past history.


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

martman said:



> Last year at boxing day we bought a colour laser printer. The fuser was dead out of the box. Future shop refused to do anything with it as it was bought online. Just getting the item was a hassle in the first place with them refusing to ship to me in Toronto because my billing address is in Waterloo.
> Future Shop refused to handle an exchange even though they had this unit in stock at other stores. The web store wouldn't handle a return either.
> luckily Konica /Minolta was willing to stand by their product and ship us a new printer right away but talk about lame CS! Brand new and Future Shop wouldn't not honor their warranty! They are truly a dishonest company.


Then don't buy from them! Oh, but they had a great price didn't they? 

I'm sorry to sound harsh but I am becoming amazed that people want to save a buck here, and a buck there and then whine because they don't get the same customer service that they would expect to receive from a full price retailer. 

Which warranty wouldn't Future Shop honour? Did you pay for their extended warranty? If you did, you had a right to complain, if you didn't the warranty is NOT with the retailer, it is with the manufacturer, who by the sounds of it, did honour their warranty.


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## Jason H (Feb 1, 2004)

ArtistSeries said:


> You can also compare the CS from FutureShop with a few other companies. A few years ago, I had a SIEMENS lan line phone stop working. Called the CS, they send a new unit (did not even take down a credit card), send a packing slip with instructions on how to return the defective unit. A few months age a G-Raid unit I had stopped working, I was send a replacement unit and asked to send back the defective unit only after I had received the new product – none of these hassles.


Your comparing expensive units from well known companies with generic computer speakers bought from a big box store.... There is a bit of a difference.


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

martman said:


> Last year at boxing day we bought a colour laser printer. The fuser was dead out of the box. Future shop refused to do anything with it as it was bought online. Just getting the item was a hassle in the first place with them refusing to ship to me in Toronto because my billing address is in Waterloo.
> Future Shop refused to handle an exchange even though they had this unit in stock at other stores. The web store wouldn't handle a return either.
> luckily Konica /Minolta was willing to stand by their product and ship us a new printer right away but talk about lame CS! Brand new and Future Shop wouldn't not honor their warranty! They are truly a dishonest company.


And as far as a store not honouring what was bought online, I don't blame them. They have no record of the purchase and in this day and age, there is too much fraud going on that they have to protect themselves. 

Also, just because the product is in another store doesn't mean that they should pull from that store's stock. There is a cost involved in transferring a piece of merchandise from one store to another. Margins on electronics are thin to begin with. Say you paid $500 for the printer. Shipping it from another store would probably cost $40-50. Margins are probably less than 10% but let's say they are 10. They transfer a replacement from another store and there goes their profit.


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## martman (May 5, 2005)

Oakbridge: This is all simply not true!
They did have a record of my purchase online. They accessed it in front of me!
Extended Warranty! Why should I have to buy an extended warranty to get warranty service on an I item just received!
That makes no sense and is a rip off. Sorry but you don't make sense!
A brand new item should work, if not you should be able to get customer service!
AS for buying extended warranties? They are ALMOST ALWAYS A RIP OFF. 

Yes I got a cheap price but that doesn't mean they should be selling defective merchandise and then refusing to exchange / service the unit when it was broken right out of the box!


"The same customer service?" I didn't get any at all. Of course you think it is ok to not honour warranties and then demand customers get extended warranties.
Why would I get an extended warranty when they won't honour the normal one?


Too bad for their margins! Since when is it OK to leave the customer holding the bag with defective merchandise!
I don't get you at all!


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

martman said:


> This all simply not true!
> They did have a record of my purchase online. They accessed it in front of me!
> Extended Warranty! Why should I have to buy an extended warranty to get warranty service on an I item just received!
> That makes no sense and is a rip off. Sorry but you don't make sense!
> ...


What I meant was that the retail stores are a different division than the online store, sometimes with different policies and systems. You didn't purchase the product from a store, you purchased it online. 

If you didn't purchase an extended warranty from the retailer (and I don't always believe in them either), then the ONLY warranty you had was with the manufacturer, who honoured it.

"Too bad for their margins!" Companies are in business to make money. You want cheap prices, be prepared for lower customer service. It is just common sense.

Don't misunderstand me. I agree that products should work out of the box. And I would love to see customer service levels rise back up to what they once were. 

But when you select a retailer based on their price, you cannot expect the same level of customer service as someone who regularly charges a higher price. 

Also, it wasn't Future Shop.ca that manufactured a defective product.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

HowEver, FS does have a restocking fee if items are not returned in the exact condition purchased. 

The full refund was a last resort on their part – and certainly not what I wanted. 
Replacing a pair of speakers by some that cost much less is hardly good customer service… 

Altec Lansing has a deal with FS, and Altec Lansing will surely be footing the deal in this one. It’s part of the over the counter replacement deal they have with them. 

The speakers were in near pristine order when returned and if needed, I could have given all the original packaging. Usage was normal (heck, they are computer speakers after all).


Oakbridge, even if this should be considered a disposable unit, someone should be able to honour the 1 year warrantee. You have Altec telling me to go see FS web, FS web to go see a store and a store to go fxxx myself. 

Lets not forget that these were at the time, Altec’s top of the line 2 .1 computer speakers – hardly inexpensive (220$). 

I’ve compared all items because they were in the same price range (the phone was actually the less expensive) .

If the FS web store is a totally separate entity, they should say so. The online store policies are the one stating differently and CS telling me otherwise.

I’m not so blasé yet as to think it acceptable that it’s better to junk a 220$ purchase (+ tax) than to try and get it repaired or that returning the purchase to Altec USA is a good option (what would the brokers fees + shipping be? 100$?). 

As for the margins that FS makes, they are healthy on certain peripherals. At the moment Logitech Z-5300E are 302.99$ and cost 160$ wholesale – I’m sure FS gets a bulk discount…


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

Jacklar said:


> Products should come standard with 1 year warranty.


They do. It did.

And the terms of those warranties _almost without exception_ is that the customer ships it at their expense to the location that the manufacturer designates as their warranty depot.

The retailer is under no obligation to shoulder that shipping cost or provide an exchange or refund, unless their sales policies state that they will do so for a certain period of time.

So before you buy a product, it is well to ask; where is the warranty depot? What are the repair or exchange terms? Who administers the warranty?

How hard is it to take it in for repair? Actually, for a retailer it is quite hard -- you're looking at shipping costs, plus staff handling, packaging (unless by some miracle the customer brought it back with all the original boxes and packaging) and administration, receiving, and contacting the customer when it comes back. This is maybe $25 - $50 expense for the retailer, and if it was a $79 product that the retailer made $18 on, then you can see why the service is not offered.

Another business may look at this expense as a customer satisfaction opportunity, with the assumption that the customer would then be loyal to them and purchase more product in the future, even if their price was higher than a low-service retailer. 

However, FutureShop is not that business, and the customer who buys online and makes a habit of scouting for loss leader prices, is not that customer.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

AS, the exact same thing happened to me with AL speaker, but it was after only about 2 months. I brought them in, got the same line about "web orders", and they gave me "an over the counter exchange (for a similar or superior model)". Amazingly, I went to choose the "similar" model, which they were sold out of, so I got a "superior model". I think that the AL speakers that I got were flawed, because everything else that I have by AL is great.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

But they are, and they are.

FutureShop valued this customer so much that they offered a full refund (even if not right away; as if any company would do that), 3 MONTHS after purchase, even though the item was purchased online and not in the store; AND they offered a succession of potential replacement products, even if they weren't suitable.

FutureShop customer service may not have been agreeable, in any sense of the word, but they did come through for this customer, as they do for thousands of others, many of who buy only products on sale at less than their usual skimpy margins.

FutureShop was going to eat the cost of the speakers. That's why some people go there to shop, and not to the smaller retailer who cannot afford to do so, and who also can't afford to ship this item to the manufacturer for you either.

It's not my favourite place, but their return policy make a huge difference for some items.




CanadaRAM said:


> However, FutureShop is not that business, and the customer who buys online and makes a habit of scouting for loss leader prices, is not that customer.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

*Mr*



CanadaRAM said:


> The retailer is under no obligation to shoulder that shipping cost or provide an exchange or refund, *unless their sales policies state that they will do so for a certain period of time.*
> 
> So before you buy a product, it is well to ask; where is the warranty depot? What are the repair or exchange terms? Who administers the warranty?
> 
> However, FutureShop is not that business, and the customer who buys online and makes a habit of scouting for loss leader prices, is not that customer.


Hence my bitching about it. FS should be taking care of this as per their own admissions - I've grown cynical enough to tape certain calls...

Don't forget that we also have provincial consumer protection agencies, the laws varie by Province. Here (Quebec) the onus is on the merchant to fix the problem. 

This "buyer beware" is getting tiresome. Sure it's annoying to have "cherry pickers" but sometimes it's the convinience for some of us.
I've noticed that your web site states:


> We only sell new, fully warranteed premium quality goods. Full manufacturers' warranty terms apply. Customer is responsible for shipping.


But omits to say that "some goods may have to be shipped to the USA for warrantee. Please note that it may cost you as much as the product to have your warrantee honoured." I'm quite sure that your sales would suffer if you added that.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

HowEver said:


> FutureShop valued this customer so much that they offered a full refund (even if not right away; as if any company would do that), 3 MONTHS after purchase, even though the item was purchased online and not in the store; AND they offered a succession of potential replacement products, even if they weren't suitable.


What difference should it make if I purchased online or not? FutureShop sells their online presence as an extention of their stores.
I tried to get the unit repaired via the online FS first (and this after being told by Altec that FS was responsable for repairs - Altec was ready to take the return but only after explaining that it's FS who should be taking care of this). 
The replacement products are akin to being offered an iPod Nano after your full size iPod breaks down. Or. if you prefer. having your Porche replaced by a Yugo .  

3 MONTHS means nothing to me on a 12 MONTHS warrantee ( repair or replacement ) - FS could offer neither and the LAST RESORT for them was a full refund.


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## funkylizard (Mar 12, 2003)

> And as far as a store not honouring what was bought online, I don't blame them. They have no record of the purchase and in this day and age, there is too much fraud going on that they have to protect themselves.


Actually, I tried to return something I bought from their website in the store...they tried to pull the same crap on me... "Sorry, sir, this was bought online"...that is, until I showed them the printed return policy right off their site...they have to accept ALL returns at a store that you have bought online as long as it's within the 30 day period... here is the link to it so you can print it and show them next time they try that crap...

http://www.futureshop.ca/informationcentre/en/onlinepolicies.asp?langid=EN&dept=0#03


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## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

ArtistSeries said:


> What difference should it make if I purchased online or not? FutureShop sells their online presence as an extention of their stores.
> I tried to get the unit repaired via the online FS first (and this after being told by Altec that FS was responsable for repairs - Altec was ready to take the return but only after explaining that it's FS who should be taking care of this).
> The replacement products are akin to being offered an iPod Nano after your full size iPod breaks down. Or. if you prefer. having your Porche replaced by a Yugo .
> 
> 3 MONTHS means nothing to me on a 12 MONTHS warrantee ( repair or replacement ) - FS could offer neither and the LAST RESORT for them was a full refund.



The 12 month warranty (not warrantee, that's the person who was given the warranty) isn't from Future Shop, but rather from Altec Lansing (unless you purchased a Service Plan... not mentioned in the OP). Future Shop has no obligation to give you ANYTHING after their return policy is up. Future Shop offers a 30 day return policy. This means that you can return it for 30 days after purchase. After that, they are not required to give you anything. The fact that you got offered a refund 3 MONTHS after purchase date is amazing, to say the least.

Where I work, if you came in with such a complaint, you would have been told to contact the manufacturer, and if you kept harassing us, you would be told to take a hike.

Instead of complaining about your own misunderstandings on ehMac, how about taking the issue to Altect Lansing, where the issue starts and ends.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

John Clay said:


> Instead of complaining about your own misunderstandings on ehMac, how about taking the issue to Altect Lansing, where the issue starts and ends.


That would be great - really would, with the exception that BOTH ALTEC AND FS HAVE TOLD ME THAT FS IS RESPONSIBLE. I have 2 taped conversations from FS CS (web support) confirming the exact same thing.

So yes, my first reaction was to go via Altec but was stirred towards FS. 
As a consumer, I'm not responsable for FS business model being the profits they make off "extended plans". And if you want me to get started on what a joke their extended plans are, I can relate to a few stories also that just underscores that they are worthless in most cases. 
I'm sure that anyone that buys a Mac computer expects the reseller where it was purchased to take care of the returns if there is a problem - if not, there is not point to use a reseller (it would be easier to always buy off the manufacturers).

As I have repeated the refund after 3 months is because FS could not meet it's previous obligations. Nothing more.


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## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

If you still have the packaging for the speakers, see if there is any warranty fine print, then use that to back up your dispute. If Future Shop has an over the counter replacment deal with Altec Lansing, like Shure does with other stores, then tell FS that they are obligated to replace the defective item. If they still stone wall, then just ask to be put through to various managers, or send a letter to the consumer protection agency for your province - they may be able to compell FS into complying.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

John Clay said:


> If you still have the packaging for the speakers, see if there is any warranty fine print, then use that to back up your dispute.


Not sure what that would do.



John Clay said:


> If Future Shop has an over the counter replacment deal with Altec Lansing, like Shure does with other stores, then tell FS that they are obligated to replace the defective item.
> .


Yes they have an over the counter replacement deal. 
I've outlined what they consider a fair trade: my FX6021 for vs4221 or logitech i-Trique.
I've explained the obligation to the manager (as per FS web services reminders). 


John Clay said:


> If they still stone wall, then just ask to be put through to various managers, or send a letter to the consumer protection agency for your province - they may be able to compell FS into complying.


Yes, I will complain but also offer this reminder in a public forum.


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## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

The warranty fine print would serve as written proof that your product came with a guarantee in the box.

Either way, I would take the refund and get yourself a set of nice speakers from another store  - to cut your losses, so to speak.


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

I still see the problem being with Altec Lansing. It is still the manufacturer that should be backing up their products. Regardless of whether AL had an agreement with FS or not, ultimately they are responsible for their products. Suppose that Future Shop closed it's doors, would you be without service simply because your retailer is no longer in business? 

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not 'pro Future Shop'. I'm not usually a big fan of theirs. But as I said earlier, I thought that the store itself went above and beyond their normal policies. The internal communications of these companies are pretty poor "left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing". Chances are that you could have picked a different store on the same day and received a totally different response. Perhaps you might have received your full refund at the beginning. 

Quite often it can depend on the mood of the person you are dealing with. Some will say it is how much you complain. Others will say that the more you complain, the more the store manager will dig their heels in and not budge. 

Again this is one of the problems with dealing with a big box retailer. 

In addition, it is difficult knowing which brands to rely on because the ownership of some of these brand names has changed so many times it is difficult to keep track of who is who. Also even some 'reputable' names in the industry have what appear to the average consumer to be insane policies. 

Palm charges a flat rate of I think $125 for any repairs to any unit outside of warranty. Some low-end Palm devices have only a 90 warranty. I waited over 2 months for a T2 to be fixed under warranty. Weekly phone calls and I finally was upgraded to a T3 as a replacement. A month later I received a 2nd T3. Talk about the left hand not knowing what the right hand was doing.

HP charges a flat rate of $250 for any repairs to digital cameras, outside of the warranty period regardless of the original cost of the camera. They charge flat rates for both desktop and laptop repairs that I believe to be $200 and $400 respectively. And one of the first things that they will do, is to wipe the user partition and restore the hard drive to the state it was in when it left the factory originally. If you don't backup your data, you'll lose it.

And if you want to speed up the process and drop your HP product off at a repair depot yourself, forget it. There is no place to drop off your product. Post office box only. 

Some printers ship with starter cartridges. Some printers have separate print heads or drum units that need to be replaced over a period of time usually with a high price tag. Others use single cartridge systems. 

I wish I had an answer to make it easy to know what brands to rely on and which brands to stay away from. And to know which retailers to deal with and which to avoid. Perhaps the biggest problem is there is no consistency. 

It follows what I have been complaining about for a few years now. Instead of companies striving to be leaders in the area of customer service, they are finding new ways to offer as low a level of customer service as possible. 

I still say that the first retailer or manufacturer or service provider who 'gets it' and provides an extraordinary level of customer service will win big time. 

The domestic auto industry found out the hard way back in the 70's and 80's, perhaps someone in the computer and/or electronics industry will come along and shake things up. 

In the meantime, when you shop for bargains, be prepared to experience problems like this. No you shouldn't have to, but being serviced in a professional manner is one of the casualties or tradeoffs of receiving that 'too good to be true' price.


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> I've noticed that your web site states:
> "We only sell new, fully warranteed premium quality goods. Full manufacturers' warranty terms apply. Customer is responsible for shipping."
> But omits to say that "some goods may have to be shipped to the USA for warrantee. Please note that it may cost you as much as the product to have your warrantee honoured." I'm quite sure that your sales would suffer if you added that.


Well, that would be because *we handle all RAM warranties in Canada*.
The RAM that comes from the USA, we provide exchange service ourselves, from Victoria.
And we offer free shipping both ways within 10 days on DOAs.
And no restocking cost upgrades within 30 days.

Do please read ALL of the information before you try to pick out a select piece to make someone else look like a hypocrite.


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## macguy.nielsen (Sep 18, 2004)

Jacklar said:


> Futureshop has terrible CS..
> 
> 30 day warranties = crap. If I'm spending money on a product I expect the company to stand by it. I shouldn't have to pay warranty on it for an extra 30 days.
> 
> Products should come standard with 1 year warranty. And then extended warranty is an option.


As an employee of Futureshop, I will try and explain a bit of the warranty thing. Now don't get me wrong, I am not taking FS' side here, I am merely trying to explain why it is only 30days.

1. If a product dies out, it has the likeliest chance of dieing withint he first 30 days. There are stats to prove this.
2. The manufacturer gives FS a grace period of 30days for returns on their prducts, past 30 days it will actually cost FS money to send things back.
3. FS runs on a very slim gross margain. It is true, the warranty is were FS makes their money. 


From what has been said, you did get good customer service. Unfortantely FS doesn't give its employees much room to move when there are web only items. We can't even order it in. 

Just my 2 cents.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Well Oakridge, thanks for elevating the debate – it’s appreciated.

When you talk about CS, I’m amazed how far behind we are compared to the U.S. to be honest (I’m not talking about greeters at the door either).
Look, I do understand that some make it a habit of trying to screw the retailer also and it is frustrating all around. 

When it comes to CS, too often it is those that shout the loudest that get results and being nice gets you nowhere with FS and the like. 

I’ve seen Dell offer good CS and a few other computer companies but sadly they seem the exception. 

FS may seem generous but what I really wanted was the unit repaired – that someone take responsibility for the repair – not a shuffle... A refund is in a way, a waste of time for me. The one reason I had bought from FS was the convenience of it – not the price (it was a good price but not a bargain). 

When you talk about consistency, some companies to get it: I assemble a lot of computers and lately have been using Antec cases. On two occasions I had to call CS and they were extraordinary. The first time an Antec Take4 ATX cable were not long enough for the mb and they send extenders right away. The other time, a front panel had been damaged in transit and was replaced asap. 

I think that certain companies bring on their own misery and the bargain prices of FS is not the fault of the customer… 

Canadaram, you are one of the few stores that I do endorse online (and I like that you sell Firtek products). You do have great knowledge of RAM and that’s an added value. 


macguy, care to explain what an over the counter replacement is? And how it would work in this case...


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## macguy.nielsen (Sep 18, 2004)

Did you purchase the extended warranty AS?

Because if you don't, it is true, we will give you crap CS then.  It is a serious flaw, which many employees even don't agree with.


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## thatcomputerguy (Jan 13, 2005)

I have to fall on the side of Futureshop on this one. They did offer to exchange the speakers, and when those did not satisfy your needs they offered a full refund. I'm not sure what else you could want.

Since when did it become the retailers responsibility to refund or repair or replace a faulty product. Correct me if i'm wrong, but there is nothing in Canadian law stating that a retailer has to offer any kind of refund policy, it has however become common practice and now everyone thinks it is their right.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

thatcomputerguy said:


> I have to fall on the side of Futureshop on this one. They did offer to exchange the speakers, and when those did not satisfy your needs they offered a full refund. I'm not sure what else you could want.
> 
> Since when did it become the retailers responsibility to refund or repair or replace a faulty product. Correct me if i'm wrong, but there is nothing in Canadian law stating that a retailer has to offer any kind of refund policy, it has however become common practice and now everyone thinks it is their right.


I'm getting a little tired of repeating myself.  
The policy of FS is indeed a over the counter replacement with a model of *equal or better value*. I was offered two models (and one of them after complaining) of *lesser value*. How would you like to exchange your PM G5 for an HP Pavillion 386?

In all likelyhood, I would of never bought from them if it were not for *their policy *with regards to online purchases.
I really don't give a toss about the refund - it certainly is not what I was asking. A simple repair (it's been less than one year), heck special order a pair if it's that hard for them and do an instore exchange. 
It is the responsability of a retailer *when they state that it is their duty *and they *have an agreement with the manufacturer do to so *(as it was in this case). 
Provincial law in Quebec does state that a retailer is responsable for products sold, and I imagine it varies across the country...


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

AS, I agree that it is FS's explicitly stated policy to accept returns in-store-- within 30 days
Policies
"We would be pleased to exchange or give you a refund in-store on most items you buy online, up to 30 days after your receive your order."

Therein lies the rub. At approx 90 days you were well outside their stated policy.

The expectation that OTC warranty exchange should be honoured beyond 30 days appears to be yours alone. If you have a 1 year, over the counter warranty exchange policy, then kindly link to it and I will admit my mistake and apologise.

The manufacturer did offer to replace it by mail, and they may have been mistaken - or even deceptive - if they directed you to go to the retailer for exchange if they did not have an explicit exchange program in place. But the manufacturer can't commit the retailer unilaterally, so it's AR's error.

I don't like FutureShop's customer service any better than you do. I think your fury is a bit misplaced -- unless you have a written over the counter exchange policy that covers your time period - in which case, let 'em have it with both barrels. 

(And even so, check the fine print, it probably says 'exchange or refund, at the retailer's option' which in the end result, you ended up with. That's typical because the exact model may not be made anymore and therefore impossible to exchange)

Other hints: 
If you ever do have to send to the USA for warranty work, insist the the return parcel be sent US Mail, Insured, and marked "Warranty Repair, no commercial value" And if possible, include a copy of the Canadian sales invoice with the shipping documents. This is the lowest cost way to get it back into Canada. 

If they declare a value for import, then you'll be stuck with paying taxes and possibly duties on getting back your own product. And of course, we all know about the UPS brokerage trap.

Needless to say, keep copies of all corrrespondence, and copies of the insurance and tracking number(s) of the parcel you sent down.


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## comprehab (May 28, 2005)

Sorry to hear about your Altecs AS. I can see why you are frustrated with the CS; I once had a similar situation at FS with a TV. They had no replacements in stock, and the only TV of similar calibre was about $100.00 more. First I was offered a refund, but what I wanted was a television. Then they offered me a no-name alternative of lesser value, which I was not interested in. After speaking with management I was offered the next model up (valued at ~$100.00 more) and ultimately went home happy. 
They should have offered me the model up immediately instead of the "Insignia Super-Flat".


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

thatcomputerguy said:


> Since when did it become the retailers responsibility to refund or repair or replace a faulty product. Correct me if i'm wrong, but there is nothing in Canadian law stating that a retailer has to offer any kind of refund policy, it has however become common practice and now everyone thinks it is their right.


As far as I know, a retailer is legally obligated to replace an "out-of-box" faulty product - after all he didn't live up to his part of the deal.

Or is that not true?

The example in this thread is the laser printer with the faulty component - not the speakers which failed within the warranty period of the manufacturer but outside the retun period of FS.


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

krs said:


> As far as I know, a retailer is legally obligated to replace an "out-of-box" faulty product - after all he didn't live up to his part of the deal.
> 
> Or is that not true?
> 
> The example in this thread is the laser printer with the faulty component - not the speakers which failed within the warranty period of the manufacturer but outside the retun period of FS.


I don't believe that it is true, and if it is, it varies from province to province. Other issues come into play. Unless the product was tested in the store before it left, it is possible that user error or fraud might be at play. Most retailers don't have knowledgeable staff to spot this, manufacturers do because they deal with their products more often. Unfortunately most of the big box retailers are high targets for fraud. Many of you have heard of the stories of people buying things like hard drives, then returning the empty boxes with bricks inside. So now every customer returning something is a potential fraud artist. Sad, but true.

Also, many retailers will have disclaimers, particularly when it comes to Boxing Day specials, close-outs, etc. which will state that they are not responsible (i.e. 'As-is', 'Final Sale'). Not having been the purchaser, I don't know what the terms and conditions of the sale were. 

I think that the main point of this thread is that too many people believe that it is their right to obtain service from the retailer. Retailers can be to blame here, because too often they will bend over backwards to avoid the customer causing a fit in the store. Or they will extend a courtesy to the customer. But when it comes down to it, they are not obligated to service a product. They didn't make it, and the only warranty that comes with a product is from the manufacturer. 

If you buy, be aware of what the retailer's rights and responsibilities are. Don't assume anything. Also be aware that in this day and age, very few electronic products under $500 will be repaired and if they are, chances are good that the unit you send in for repair will not be the same one you get back. Unfortunately that is what we are stuck with. 

Finally, there is usually a reason why products are sold at prices that might be 'too good of a deal'. If you don't want to take chances, shop at a reputable dealer and learn their customer service policy. If you find a good retailer who gives you good customer service, CONTINUE TO GIVE THEM YOUR BUSINESS. Many retailers will still find a way to reward loyalty.

If you continue to take advantage of online 'deals', understand that there is a higher risk that should you require customer service, it might not be easy to obtain.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

CanadaRAM said:


> Therein lies the rub. At approx 90 days you were well outside their stated policy.
> 
> The expectation that OTC warranty exchange should be honoured beyond 30 days appears to be yours alone. If you have a 1 year, over the counter warranty exchange policy, then kindly link to it and I will admit my mistake and apologise.
> 
> ...


CanadaRam, as stated time and time again, if Altec or FS had told me that Altec was responsable for the repair, I would not even be bringing this up here.
As it was, I called Altec first, they informed that FS took care of the repair. FS web service confirmed the same information twice - even instructing me how to talk to the retail store. The retail store did confirm that they had an exchange program with Altec. Hence why I'm pissed off at FS. The store manager wanted to do the quickest thing for her. 
Exact model is still made (and I will likely purchase them again).
When it came to the exchange, I don't think many would accept an 2GB nano when they purchased a 4GB unit. 

If FS had come out and said "we can't repair this unit, here's a refund", it would be a very different situation. Instead, I received the run around in part because the web store and the brick and mortar stores seem to be totally separate companies. 

The text you quote is for exchanges and does not cover waranty or repairs. I'm inclined to believe FS web CS and Altec when they give me instructions to go to the store.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

OB -

I realize that the question if a retailer is legally obligated to replace an "out-of-the box" defective product is slightly off topic - maybe I should start another thread on that.
However, I find it hard to believe that a retailer can sell you a defective product and then has no legal obligation to replace it with on that is not defective since that is really what you paid for.
I'm not talking about "Final sale" or "As is" items or returns or any of this - I just walk into the store, buy a standard item off the shelf, get it home and it doesn't work.
Testing a product in the store is not practical in most cases and even if it were, the retailers typically won't entertain that idea. Half the time you can't even see exactly what you're buying because the retrailer has no sample on display and the blisterpacks which are becoming more and more common, won't let you take the product out of the box to determine what you are really getting.
I have had a few cases where I brought a product home, opened it and it didn't work or certain functions didn't work. 
Never had a problem having it replaced, the retailer usually asked very specifically if the product ever worked or was defective right out of the box, so in their mind there seems to be a difference.
In Ontario, you have the legal right to return a meal in a restaurant if it is not to your liking and the restaurant cannot charge you for it - I'd be surprised if you don't have a legal right to request a replacement for a *defective* product.

And btw - even though retailers do have to worry about fraud when a product is returned, I think they need to assume that a customer is honest unless proven otherwise.


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## Fredou51 (Oct 29, 2006)

krs said:


> In Ontario, you have the legal right to return a meal in a restaurant if it is not to your liking and the restaurant cannot charge you for it - I'd be surprised if you don't have a legal right to request a replacement for a *defective* product.


That's interesting! I didn't know that you could legally return a meal in a restaurant, but it makes sense though.

Frederic


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

krs said:


> OB -
> 
> I realize that the question if a retailer is legally obligated to replace an "out-of-the box" defective product is slightly off topic - maybe I should start another thread on that.
> However, I find it hard to believe that a retailer can sell you a defective product and then has no legal obligation to replace it with on that is not defective since that is really what you paid for.
> ...


I did some searching on the Ontario Ministry of Government Services who are responsible for Consumer Protection in Ontario. I wasn't able to find anything that states that a retailer is ultimately responsible for defective merchandize. They list a lot of things like making sure a store is reputable, knowing their policies, knowing the warranty policy of the item you're buying, etc.

It goes back to what I suggested earlier. We've become accustomed to a retailer treating us fairly, but that is at their discretion. Most retailers would be foolish not to offer some kind of policy that looks after their customers and most do. But I don't believe (maybe our retailers can offer some insight here) that there is any law in Ontario that forces a retailer to replace defective merchandise that has been purchased from them.

My hunch, and this is only a hunch, is that the Ministry's ultimate response to a problem would be to suggest that the purchaser take either the retailer or the manufacturer to small claims court when there is a dispute that cannot be settled.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

I can see returning a defective product within the published date for return, say, 30 days in the case of FutureShop.

But in these days of crappy customer service, I would not depend on the word of an Altec Lansing phone-drone who says "take it back to the retailer." I would want that confirmed in writing somewhere.

If you're fed up with the Altec Lansings (I have several different Altec Lansing products, and they're all impressive, but can relate to having something defective and wanting a change) and want a 2.1 alternative check out this Dell sale:

http://accessories.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=dhs&cs=CADHS1&sku=A0499311










Logitech Z-2300 2.1 Speaker System 
$109.00

Free shipping, as well.


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## thatcomputerguy (Jan 13, 2005)

Now we are getting into an area that is a little grey but it sounds like we are all referring to "implied warranty" when discussing an item that is DOA or defective when purchased and the retailers responsibilities.

check out this link for more info and also google the term "Warranty of Merchantability"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implied_warranty

it is a little off topic from the speaker issue though, since they were working and then became faulty.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

Oakbridge said:


> But I don't believe (maybe our retailers can offer some insight here) that there is any law in Ontario that forces a retailer to replace defective merchandise that has been purchased from them.


I tried to call the Consumer Protection Agency today to get an answer on this, but finally gave up waiting in queue. I'll try again tomorrow.

A bit odd that something this basic isn't covered on their website, My hunch is the opposite of yours - when I buy a product, I look at it as entering into a contract with the retailer. I provide payment - in return he provides the product. If the product is defective, he did not fulfil his part of the contract.
I know for instance that if the product does not reasonably perform the function that it is advertized to perform, you can return it and are legally entitled to a full refund. I would think a "defective" product would also fall into this category.


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## modsuperstar (Nov 23, 2004)

Fredou51 said:


> That's interesting! I didn't know that you could legally return a meal in a restaurant, but it makes sense though.
> 
> Frederic


I wish I had known that a couple of weeks ago. I got some really crappy food at the Zellers restaurant. I oddly ordered ribs because they looked pretty good in the picture, only to find they were a crappy D grade cut with a horrible rib sauce that had none of the consistency or look or what appeared in the menu. I'll have to keep it in mind if it ever comes up again.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

Of course you can't eat the meal and then complain it was no good and expect not to pay for it.
But if you take a few bites and then tell the waitress what the problem is, she should take it back and either fix the problem or offer something else.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

However, I've had good experience with Altec in the past (still have a few pairs around the office). 
Thanks for the tip on the Logitech - was actually looking at those today.


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## psycosis (Mar 29, 2005)

*Recap for my own amusement*

1.) Buy product from Futureshop online

2.) Product doesn't work

3.) Contact manufacturer... told to goto Futureshop

4.) Contact Futureshop online... told to goto Futureshop store

5.) Goto Futureshop store, told web item and not in stock... contact manager

6.) Manager offers alternative products... not acceptable alternatives

7.) Manager gives you refund

I am at a lost here to see the problem. I guess step 5 was a mistake on the front line employees part that was resolved by the manager.

Is the problem that they wouldn't repair them? Spending months waiting for the speakers vs. buy new ones with your refund. Clearly Altec Lansing does not handle repairs. It is probably cheaper for them to replace the unit then repair it. 

I guess we need to complain about something.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

psycosis said:


> 1.) Buy product from Futureshop online


Check.


psycosis said:


> 2.) Product doesn't work


Check


psycosis said:


> 3.) Contact manufacturer... told to goto Futureshop


Check


psycosis said:


> 4.) Contact Futureshop online... told to goto Futureshop store


Check


psycosis said:


> 5.) Goto Futureshop store, told web item and not in stock... contact manager


Close. 
As per web division instructions tried to get repair first.


psycosis said:


> 6.) Manager offers alternative products... not acceptable alternatives


Check. Ludicrous trade to be honest but hey I don't blame FS for trying...



psycosis said:


> 7.) Manager gives you amusement


Not sure I'd call it that. 



psycosis said:


> I am at a lost here to see the problem. I guess step 5 was a mistake on the front line employees part that was resolved by the manager.
> 
> Is the problem that they wouldn't repair them? Spending months waiting for the speakers vs. buy new ones with your refund. Clearly Altec Lansing does not handle repairs. It is probably cheaper for them to replace the unit then repair it.


Altec seem to have a deal in place with FS for a OTC replacement. Which is fine and ironic since FS does not seem to have an equivalent replacement. 
The store manager told me that they could be send out for repair but would likely be send back (I wished she had a clue, but I don't expect much from FS).






psycosis said:


> I guess we need to complain about something.


I guess it's too much to expect decent quality CS, or for a company/reseller to actually back products they sell.
I guess consumers think all products are now so cheaply made that they are disposable. The only issue being how much money you are ready to dispose of...


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

psycosis said:


> 1.) Buy product from Futureshop online
> 
> 2.) Product doesn't work
> 
> ...


Recap isn't quite right according to my understanding. Wasn't it:

2a.) Product works fine when received
2b.) Product still works fine when 30 day return period expires
2c.) Product stops working after about 3 months

I assume if the product had been DOA, FS would have had a replacement available.


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## MACinist (Nov 17, 2003)

I work for a company that supplies FS/BB with most of the IT product they sell. I can tell you this, you are pretty lucky you were offered even a refund after 3 months. Other smaller resellers, do not get the same return privlidges as major retailers like FS/BB do simply because of their buying power. 

Much earlier question; FS/BB.ca is different inventory from it's retail side. Warehoused somewhere else and bought through a different set of buyers. 

Resellers are not obliged to honour any warranty. It's the manufacturer's responsbility. The FS/BB/Staples/Wal-Mart's of the world, have spoiled a lot of consumers. Believe it or not their "out of policy" returns cost millions of dollars that indirectly and directly affects everyone else and eventually the cost is put back into the new product on the shelves. 

Although your conversation with CS may not of been professional, the option to get a full refund after that much time was a privlidge that not many other resellers have.


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## psycosis (Mar 29, 2005)

ArtistSeries said:


> I guess it's too much to expect decent quality CS, or for a company/reseller to actually back products they sell.


You got a refund. How is that not decent? It is not perfect but it is no where near bad. 



ArtistSeries said:


> I guess consumers think all products are now so cheaply made that they are disposable. The only issue being how much money you are ready to dispose of...


Now to my biggest issue. Disposable? YOU GOT YOUR MONEY BACK!!!! How much money I am ready to dispose of? YOU DIDN'T LOSE ANY MONEY!!!! You ended up even. You don't like FS or AL... buy speakers from somewhere else. What is there to complain about?



ArtistSeries said:


> Altec seem to have a deal in place with FS for a OTC replacement. Which is fine and ironic since FS does not seem to have an equivalent replacement.


Lets say that you bought the product originally from the store and when you tried to do the exchange, they were sold out. They gave you a refund instead. Is that bad customer service? No... its unfortunate circumstance.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

MACinist said:


> Believe it or not their "out of policy" returns cost millions of dollars.............


I recently read somewhere that each return costs a retailer something like $75.- to process it - so yeah....it's millions for the retail industry, but what percentage is it....and could a retailer afford not to do it?
Only if every other retailer doesn't accept returns either.

I find with me, a good return policy policy actually works in the retailers favour. I often see things in the store that I need, but for which I was not shopping at the time/
So I don't have my measurements, colour samples, whatever to pick the right product.
In the past, I wouldn't buy unless I was 100% sure the item was suitable, and then, once I had the info I needed, I wouldn't go back to that particular store or even the same chain.
But with a good return policy like CTC or Walmart or FS, I buy the item anyway and 9 times out of 10, it's fine and I keep it. These are 9 sales the store would not have made if they wouldn't accept returns.


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

Sorry A.S., It wasn't clear to me from your initial posts that you had been explicitly told that AR had an overthecounter warranty (as opposed to DOA) exchange deal with FS, extra to what FS's written policies are. 

I thought that the AR guy said it could be fixed (albeit at a cost for shipping -- they should have known that there would be no customs on a returning warranty repair if the paperwork was done right) and "suggested" going to the retailer for an exchange.

I apologise for haranguing you on the terms and conditions.


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

Jacklar said:


> 30 day warranties = crap. If I'm spending money on a product I expect the company to stand by it. I shouldn't have to pay warranty on it for an extra 30 days.
> 
> Products should come standard with 1 year warranty. And then extended warranty is an option.


Products do come with a 1 year warranty. Try not to confuse a stores return/exchange policy with a products warranty. They are not, contrary to popular belief, the same thing.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

Honestly, how much time/money/work has been wasted by everyone here on what is essentially a *non-issue*?


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

IronMac said:


> Honestly, how much time/money/work has been wasted by everyone here on what is essentially a *non-issue*?


Not for me! I've just got insomnia


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

Wrong thread, dude.


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## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

The Doug said:


> Wrong thread, dude.


Yeah... The downside of tabs .


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

PosterBoy said:


> Not for me! I've just got insomnia


I don't believe that it was a non-issue. Hopefully now people might think twice before snapping up that "too good to be true" online special. Especially since we are in the midst of the holiday gift buying season. 

How would you feel if a present you purchased for someone ended up like some of the stories we've heard here? I'd be pretty embarrassed myself. 

This has opened my eyes even more than they were before. Slowly I am beginning to examine more of my purchases before making them. I'll still buy from the big box retailers, but some things (like a new Mac) I will restrict to dealing with resellers that I trust, like some of our members, or the Apple Stores, or the dealers here in Oakville and in Burlington and in K-W, all of which I have met and I am comfortable dealing with.

Hopefully others will do the same and there will be fewer situations like those that have been described here.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

Oakbridge said:


> I don't believe that it was a non-issue. Hopefully now people might think twice before snapping up that "too good to be true" online special.


OB -

I don't see how this whole episode would have been any different with any other product.......your comment about "too good to be true" on-line special is a red herring.

Item is bought, becomes defective during the warranty period. not repairable (because of shipping/brokerage fees as AS stated), Future Shop offers an over-the-counter replacement (no suitable ones available) or a refund.
The basic problem here is that
a. FS had no more of these speakers to do an over-the-counter exchange
b. AL has no repair facility in Canada
...nothing to do with on-line special.

I don't know how much the refund would have been, AS said he bought them for a good, but not fantastic, price.
Maybe the best would have been to take the refund and buy the speakers elsewhere - they run just over $C200.- or go with a manufacturer who has a Canadian repair facility...just in case.


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

I simply cannot agree with the proposition that the price one pays for a product has anything whatsoever to do with the reliability, suitability or value of the product, as far as the retailer goes. A price is an offer to sell, a purchase is an acceptance of that offer, and the whole transaction is a contract.

The actual price is irrelevant to the validity of the contract. A bargain does not mean, by itself, that you must accept substandard terms anymore than purchasing expensive junk means you get extra consideration. If there are special terms that accompany a sale, that's different. The selling price alone is not justification for a retailer to treat one transaction differently from another.

Having said that, no retailer is obliged to refund the purchase price, or exchange an item, or repair any item. All of these are courtesies, if and when they are offered. That it's common or customary is irrelevant; there is no obligation at all on the retailer to do anything whatsoever except provide the agreed upon item at the agreed upon price. The rest is "extra" and at the retailer's own discretion.

That doesn't mean they can change the terms at will; misrepresent the product, or otherwise make a fraudulent transaction; if they say they will do something they must do it. But, "all sales final" and "no refunds" are also perfectly fine; in fact without the reseller explicitly stating otherwise, and with the exception of some specific consumer laws that are generally not as broad as most consumers assume, they are the default terms of a retail transaction.

Obliging the purchaser to return defective merchandise to the manufacturer is also a perfectly reasonable term.

Future Shop online is not your local, independently or corporate owned store, and whatever they offer for remedies is between them and the head office. Whether it's an online or bricks-and-mortar transaction, you should find out what these terms are before you buy; then if they don't honour them you have something to go on. Simply assuming they "should" do this or that isn't good enough.

There is no duty on warranty repairs outside of Canada provided there was no place in Canada that can do the repair. If it's under warranty, then Altec Lansing can either have an authorized warranty repair facility here or anywhere else they want, but if there is one in Canada you must use it. If there isn't one in Canada, it's duty and tax free to have it repaired outside Canada under warranty.

That doesn't mean it will automatically be treated correctly by CCRA; you might have to deal with them one way or another, but in the end you should either not pay or be refunded.

If there are no prior terms to the contrary, you must pay to get the product to the warranty repair location, in or outside of Canada. Generally the manufacturer will pay return shipping, but they are automatically not obligated to do so. Read the terms of the warranty to find out what it covers.

You might also check to see if there are statutory terms to warranties; ie your province might have minimum warranty terms that apply if it was bought from a reseller in that province, or perhaps applies to purchases to residents. They override conflicting manufacturer's or resellers' terms.

Taken together, the terms of a warranty and the terms of a sale make up what you can expect from a reseller, and define the differences between retailers.

Now, none of the above has anything at all to do with whether Future Shop Sucks or not. That's an opinion, and you can have any opinion you want, reasonable or otherwise. You don't need to justify it to us.

A good transaction is fair to both parties.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

http://accessories.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=dhs&cs=CADHS1&sku=A0816643

Here is another (new) option for you. $79 CAD from Dell today (possibly with free shipping).












> Overview
> 
> Compact and stylish, *X-540 5.1 Surround Speaker System and subwoofer from Logitech*® delivers clear, uniform sound field that envelopes you for a great aural experience. The X-540 speakers use FDD2™ (Frequency Directed Dual Driver) technology to produce a uniform soundfield anywhere in the room. Immerse yourself in the game using the selectable 'matrix mode,' which automatically creates 5.1 surround sound from common 2-channel stereo sources. The compact satellites are wall-mountable, and a special clip lets you place the centre channel speaker on top of most flat-panel monitors to reduce desktop clutter. Use the wired control centre to control volume and bass levels or connect headphones to enjoy your games and music privately for a complete hearing experience.
> 
> ...


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