# Rogers and the iPhone 4S upgrade



## MacAddict (Jan 29, 2006)

Besides their present stated fee of $159 to upgrade to the iPhone 4 S they are now stating that to '*break *my current contract' they will charge the following set of fees:

iPhone 4S 16GB - $209.00 + $440.00 Early Upgrade Fee + $35 Hardware Upgrade Administration Fee 

I maintain that I only wish to avail myself of a hardware upgrade to my present iPhone 4 and to continue with the present contract. What's wrong with that ? On top of that they have so far failed to reveal when I would be able to avail myself of the upgrade without these exorbitant fees. 

Do Rogers really think any sane person would agree to pay such exorbitant fees just to avail themselves of a recent upgraded Apple cell phone ? ( I wonder what Apple thinks of how carriers are treating their customers when they're at the mercy of the carriers they chose.) In other words it's Rogers' way of effectively preventing Apple's clientele from obtaining Apple's new hardware. Rogers obviously surmises that this is conducive to retaining clients after the present contract runs out. Do I have news for them. 

I trust Apple, in order to protect 'their faithful' from such avaricious carriers, will scrutinize 
such carriers' policies and contractual terms to see that such punitive terms as the above are removed before renewing any future agreements. Apple is, after all, in the driver's seat, don't you think ? I wish there was a way to alert Cupertino to these practices.


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## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

If you think Rogers is bad try Fido's stacked contracts.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

Simple solution. Don't sign a contract next time. You have to pay for the phone you got just last year.


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## Ottawaman (Jan 16, 2005)

Joker Eh said:


> Simple solution. Don't sign a contract next time. You have to pay for the phone you got just last year.


So, once your contract is over, and you own your previously subsidized phone, why don't the rates drop?


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## John Clay (Jun 25, 2006)

ottawaman said:


> so, once your contract is over, and you own your previously subsidized phone, why don't the rates drop?


+1


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

I was eligible for a hardware upgrade last summer but decided to wait until the new phone comes out. I am well past the two years that Rogers has required in the past to be eligible for a HUP. In the US, the TOTAL LENGTH of the contract is no longer than two years, while in Canada, somehow, we've allowed the carriers to impose three year terms for the same device. Am I to understand that I now have to pay extra for the privilege of a hardware upgrade that was free of extra charges two months ago? What are Rogers new terms for eligibility for a hardware upgrade and why haven't they notified customers of these changes if that's the case?


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

Ottawaman said:


> So, once your contract is over, and you own your previously subsidized phone, why don't the rates drop?


Because you montly rate has nothing to do with subsized phone it is the contract length. You got the phone at a lower price because you signed with Rogers letting them know you would be a customer for 3 years. Not a higher monthly fee.


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## Stephanie (Jul 21, 2004)

Ottawaman said:


> So, once your contract is over, and you own your previously subsidized phone, why don't the rates drop?


Call em up when the contract is over and tell them you want a lower rate or you're leaving. They won't do it if you don't ask.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

stephanie said:


> call em up when the contract is over and tell them you want a lower rate or you're leaving. They won't do it if you don't ask.


+1


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## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

We have three cell phone accounts with Rogers. I upgraded to iPhone 4 last year but my wife and son are both eligible for a HUP. So, I'm upgrading my son and will swap SIM cards, handing my 4 down to him -- and I get the 4S beejacon


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

I have come to the conclusion that the providers in Ontario seem to be able to run rough-shod over we the consumer. This is especially so when it comes to UP grades and what is laughingly called a "warranty replacement". I know that in other provinces they have consumer protection which limits the length of contracts and the charges to get out of them ... in my case a sales person renewed us to a contract that we could not get through the provider ( we were contacted by the provider so this isn't some 3rd party seller here ).... after 3 days and six hours of phone time we arrived at an agreement but....and this is what is the kicker....the company knew that we were signed to a bogus contract and ( this is especially galling ) when we first contacted them on the issue another individual indicated they would fix this issue, which they didn't.....so when I say I would cancel they presented to say it would cost me $800.....for a contract they agreed was bogus and that we couldn't possbily get..... So, I would like to collect your thoughts on this and other issues you have run into. My intent is to collect these and present them to my MPP to develop some form of consumer protection legislation. Now I know that Quebec has some in place and I would be interested from any ehMacers from there on what they think of their CP laws.....thanks.


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## MacAddict (Jan 29, 2006)

Stephanie said:


> Call em up when the contract is over and tell them you want a lower rate or you're leaving. They won't do it if you don't ask.


After this eye-opener, I doubt very much even a lower rate would suffice. Rogers have proven to me they don't even deserve my consideration. 

I have to admit that I am now somewhat disillusioned that Apple would permit their clientele to be left unprotected against such gouging by telecom carriers that obviously regard us as fair game and in effect by such contractual terms prevent us from acquiring any upgrades to iPhones that Apple produces. You would think Apple would be in the driver's seat on that one.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

MacAddict said:


> After this eye-opener, I doubt very much even a lower rate would suffice. Rogers have proven to me they don't even deserve my consideration.
> 
> I have to admit that I am now somewhat disillusioned that Apple would permit their clientele to be left unprotected against such gouging by telecom carriers that obviously regard us as fair game and in effect by such contractual terms prevent us from acquiring any upgrades to iPhones that Apple produces. You would think Apple would be in the driver's seat on that one.


You could have bought an Apple iPhone without contract from Apple for I think it was $749 full price. And you can now buy the iPhone 4S 64Gb for $849. Apple leaves you with options but you opted for a contract so you would only have to pay a small portion of the full price in return for a 3 year contract.

I did the same and signed a 3 year contract when the iPhone 4 came out so that I could only pay $249 for a $749 device. If I want to break that contract then I have to pay up.


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## MacAddict (Jan 29, 2006)

Rps said:


> I have come to the conclusion that the providers in Ontario seem to be able to run rough-shod over we the consumer. This is especially so when it comes to UP grades and what is laughingly called a "warranty replacement". I know that in other provinces they have consumer protection which limits the length of contracts and the charges to get out of them


I wasn't aware that other provinces protected their citizens in a better fashion than we who happen to live in Ontario receive when it comes to Consumer Protection. How come the "from sea, to sea, to sea," doesn't prevail here ? Could it be because of the corporate influence on our politicians, I wonder ? When it comes to us or them, we always fall by the wayside at Parliament Hill or Queens Park ......... until an election comes along. Do you happen to know which specific provinces have restrictions that differ from ours when it comes to the actual Rogers vis a vis Apple iPhones situation or would Rogers be precluded from any outside of Ontario ? In any case, I'm prompted to draw this matter to the successful MPP I just voted for, though I doubt since the election is now over and done with that it will make any difference.


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## MacAddict (Jan 29, 2006)

Joker Eh said:


> I did the same and signed a 3 year contract when the iPhone 4 came out so that I could only pay $249 for a $749 device. If I want to break that contract then I have to pay up.


I still maintain that I am NOT breaking the contract. I am content to continue with the same contract, as all I want is to avail myself of the upgraded Apple iPhone hardware and again I am content to pay Rogers their upgrade fee. It is only in Rogers interpretation that by wishing to accomplish this it is in effect breaking the current contract. Why ? Because they have fashioned it that way in order to increase their bottom line. Why would upgrading the hardware revert its cost to the consumer essentially to that of purchasing an unlocked iPhone 4S, especially when I didn't choose to purchase an unlocked iPhone 4 on those terms in the first place ? And who in his right mind would agree to such outlandish terms ? Why should an upgraded hardware, in Rogers interpretation, bring about a whole new ball game which changes all the rules ... in their favour I might add. If I go out and purchase a new improved $159 home phone it doesn't affect my monthly phone bill, why should paying the same $159 for an improved cell phone incur an additional $749, as in your case, penalty ? Again, who in his right mind would agree to those terms ?


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

MacAddict said:


> I still maintain that I am NOT breaking the contract. I am content to continue with the same contract, as all I want is to avail myself of the upgraded Apple iPhone hardware and again I am content to pay Rogers their upgrade fee. It is only in Rogers interpretation that by wishing to accomplish this it is in effect breaking the current contract. Why ? Because they have fashioned it that way in order to increase their bottom line. Why would upgrading the hardware revert its cost to the consumer essentially to that of purchasing an unlocked iPhone 4S, especially when I didn't choose to purchase an unlocked iPhone 4 on those terms in the first place ? And who in his right mind would agree to such outlandish terms ? Why should an upgraded hardware, in Rogers interpretation, bring about a whole new ball game which changes all the rules ... in their favour I might add. If I go out and purchase a new improved $159 home phone it doesn't affect my monthly phone bill, why should paying the same $159 for an improved cell phone incur an additional $749, as in your case, penalty ? Again, who in his right mind would agree to those terms ?


All I know when there is a contract with any company and you want to change the terms be it new device or service there is a fee to change and a new contract is created. In any contract I have created or signed there is always a fee/penalty to change the terms which means you are voiding old one and creating a new one. Just that way it is.

Go ask your bank if you have a mortgage. Tell them the interest rate right now is lower than what you are paying and would like the new interest rate and see what happens. Contracts are there for a reason, you have the contract with Rogers its on their terms not yours, you excepted them.

Why don't you just call Rogers and ask to cancel your service and contract and see what the penalty is? Then go sign with another carrier if you find a better deal. I bet you end up paying the same.


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## Delroy666 (Dec 12, 2006)

Stephanie said:


> Call em up when the contract is over and tell them you want a lower rate or you're leaving. They won't do it if you don't ask.


That's the only reason I'm still with Rogers. They keep giving me retention plan deals that are too good to pass up. It sucks that they don't lower your fees automatically when your contract ends, and you pretty much have to call several times hoping to get a retentions CSR in a good mood, but you can get pretty good deals if you're persistent.


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## fjnmusic (Oct 29, 2006)

Apparently, Rogers is advertising selling the iPhone 4S for even less than Apple is, starting at $159 with a three year term. This advert is directly from their website a few seconds ago.
Typo? False advertising? Bait and switch?


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## psycosis (Mar 29, 2005)

MacAddict said:


> If I go out and purchase a new improved $159 home phone it doesn't affect my monthly phone bill, why should paying the same $159 for an improved cell phone incur an additional $749, as in your case, penalty ? Again, who in his right mind would agree to those terms ?


You are forgetting the fact that Rogers paid $500 of the phone cost based on you staying on contract for 3 years. If you want out of the contract, they want that money back. For your monthly phone bill, the phone company didn't pay anything for the original phone. 

Based on your original email, $440 is the money Rogers is trying to get back based on you wanting to get out of your contract. You can make the argument that your 8 months as a customer should be worth more then $60, and you are probably right, but not much more.


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## psycosis (Mar 29, 2005)

fjnmusic said:


> Apparently, Rogers is advertising selling the iPhone 4S for even less than Apple is, starting at $159 with a three year term. This advert is directly from their website a few seconds ago.
> Typo? False advertising? Bait and switch?


The full prices that Rogers advertises are the same as the Canadian Apple store. The lower price is what Rogers chooses to subsidies. They apparently choose to do it more then the US cell companies which makes sense since the contracts are longer.


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## MacAddict (Jan 29, 2006)

psycosis said:


> The full prices that Rogers advertises are the same as the Canadian Apple store. The lower price is what Rogers chooses to subsidies. They apparently choose to do it more then the US cell companies which makes sense since the contracts are longer.


I have since discussed it all with a friend who happens to opt for buying it straight from Apple at their full price since that way he can opt to buy any upgrades as they appear on the market and he then sells his former iPhone. Where we don't agree is where he loses money when his iPhone loses its value when an upgraded model appears, e.g a new iPhone 4 can now be bought for $99 ( with a 3 year contract,) so what can you realize if you sell a used one at this time ? I still maintain he is throwing his money away needlessly, but he doesn't see it that way. Chacun pour soi.

I should add that I have now come around to realizing that the terms are based on the fact that I received a subsidy in lieu of the selling price of the iPhone 4 and if an upgrade on the hardware becomes available for a fee it is still regarded by the carrier as breaking the contract, then so be it.


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## psxp (May 23, 2006)

my peeve is that if you are on a month to month (ie. no contract) you dont get a special break on your rates. The best they may offer is free caller id !! (a feature that we should not even be paying for!! - voicemail and callerid have are standard features in every other country that has GSM .)


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## psycosis (Mar 29, 2005)

psxp said:


> my peeve is that if you are on a month to month (ie. no contract) you dont get a special break on your rates. The best they may offer is free caller id !! (a feature that we should not even be paying for!! - voicemail and callerid have are standard features in every other country that has GSM .)


Call Rogers and threaten to leave. You can get better plans that way.


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## Macified (Sep 18, 2003)

psxp said:


> my peeve is that if you are on a month to month (ie. no contract) you dont get a special break on your rates. The best they may offer is free caller id !! (a feature that we should not even be paying for!! - voicemail and callerid have are standard features in every other country that has GSM .)


Nothing is ever included for free. Including it in the standard service offering allows the carrier to charge everyone for the feature whether they want it or not. Make no mistake, you are paying for it. It may be cheaper than other carriers, bu it is being payed for.


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

MacAddict said:


> I have since discussed it all with a friend who happens to opt for buying it straight from Apple at their full price since that way he can opt to buy any upgrades as they appear on the market and he then sells his former iPhone. Where we don't agree is where he loses money when his iPhone loses its value when an upgraded model appears, e.g *a new iPhone 4 can now be bought for $99 ( with a 3 year contract,)* so what can you realize if you sell a used one at this time ? I still maintain he is throwing his money away needlessly, but he doesn't see it that way. Chacun pour soi.


But as you've realized, you're not really getting it for $99, you're getting it for $99 plus 36 easy payments of $12.50.

There's no free lunch. Either you buy it free-and-clear and have maximum flexibility in exchange for maximum up-front cash, or you buy it subsidized in exchange for agreeing to be tied to a carrier.

IMO a lot of what prompted you to start this thread goes back to the 3-year term that's standard in Canada.

iPhone product cycles appear to be timed largely to appeal to people on a two-year deal, with the assumption that most upgraders will skip a generation. i.e. the 4S comes at a perfect time for most *U.S.* 3GS owners to upgrade and represents a major upgrade for those customers, whereas it's assumed that most iPhone 4 users will be happy with their phone for at least another year. 

The 4S is not really designed to entice a lot of iPhone 4 owners to upgrade, but many in the US will come off-contract next year, when it's likely there'll be an iPhone 5 that will represent an enticing leap up from the 4. But most Canadian iPhone 4 owners will still have at least a year to go on their contract by then.

This may shed more light:

Why is there no iPhone 5? | asymco

I read that a few days ago, so whatever I've cribbed from it is cribbed accidentally.


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## junji98 (Jul 30, 2009)

to the iphone/rogers gurus out there:
i have 4 iphones in the family. my wife and i have the iphone 4 which we got under contract when it came out. my 2 boys have iphone 3gs's also on some sort of contract, i believe. if we 'break' the contract for the 3gs's (assuming it would be cheaper than breaking the contracts for the newer iphone 4) in order to obtain 2 new iphone 4s's, would we be simply able to swap sim cards so that my wife and i retain our numbers and use the iphone 4s's and my kids get our iphone 4's? does this make sense?

thanks.


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## psycosis (Mar 29, 2005)

junji98 said:


> to the iphone/rogers gurus out there:
> i have 4 iphones in the family. my wife and i have the iphone 4 which we got under contract when it came out. my 2 boys have iphone 3gs's also on some sort of contract, i believe. if we 'break' the contract for the 3gs's (assuming it would be cheaper than breaking the contracts for the newer iphone 4) in order to obtain 2 new iphone 4s's, would we be simply able to swap sim cards so that my wife and i retain our numbers and use the iphone 4s's and my kids get our iphone 4's? does this make sense?
> 
> thanks.


Assuming all the phones are on the same carrier, yes. You will need to do some backing up and restoring to get your kids phone settings onto the iphone 4's, but the basic idea is fine.


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## junji98 (Jul 30, 2009)

ok thanks for the quick reply. i hope swapping the sim card is not that difficult. 
cheers!

e


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Your kids 3GS iPhones will need Microsims instead of SIM cards: free from Apple stores, $40 at Rogers etc. Call Rogers when ready to activate the Microsims; keep the old SIM cards just in case of an emergency swap with an older phone, since Rogers doesn't cancel them (you would need to re-activate them on the line by calling in again).

You know you don't need to "break" any kind of contract right? You just need to figure out how to call Rogers Customer Relations and have them provide what you want (while you're at it, get some reductions in your monthly plans since in the end people pay way more for those than hardware--despite all these threads about how much they're charging for phones).





junji98 said:


> to the iphone/rogers gurus out there:
> i have 4 iphones in the family. my wife and i have the iphone 4 which we got under contract when it came out. my 2 boys have iphone 3gs's also on some sort of contract, i believe. if we 'break' the contract for the 3gs's (assuming it would be cheaper than breaking the contracts for the newer iphone 4) in order to obtain 2 new iphone 4s's, would we be simply able to swap sim cards so that my wife and i retain our numbers and use the iphone 4s's and my kids get our iphone 4's? does this make sense?
> 
> thanks.


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## junji98 (Jul 30, 2009)

thanks However, but (however!) do you have suggestions on how to approach customer relations with what i want? is there a 'hotline' for me to call to avail of this or is it better to try to accomplish this at our local rogers plus store? 

thanks!

e

ps - and thanks too for the suggestions on the sim cards. i did not know that there were different ones already.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

junji98 said:


> thanks However, but (however!) do you have suggestions on how to approach customer relations with what i want? is there a 'hotline' for me to call to avail of this or is it better to try to accomplish this at our local rogers plus store?
> 
> thanks!
> 
> ...


The rogers stores can't do anything for you. Sometimes people (rogers ) need the fear that you will take your business else where. . Thats called Retentions.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

If you're on contract, none of the carriers care if you threaten to leave. Just buy an unlocked 4S and sell your 4 for about $400.


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## psxp (May 23, 2006)

dona83 said:


> If you're on contract, none of the carriers care if you threaten to leave. Just buy an unlocked 4S and sell your 4 for about $400.


Pay the $200 to cancel contract, then swap carriers.


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