# Ordering stuff from the USA - Custom Duties?



## Fink-Nottle (Feb 25, 2001)

I am shopping for an MP3 player and was considering ordering direct from the manufacturer (Creative) in the US. I know I'll have to pay GST/PST when it crosses the border but will there be customs duties on top of that? I searched the Canada Customs website but couldn't find any specific information.

Thanks!


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

I suppose you'll get hit with that CDRW/hard-drive levy imposed recently. Other than that I don't forsee any dutied, I believe there are none for most consumer electronics.

It'll also depend how Creative will manifest the product on the customs declaration. Find out (if you can) what the *harmonized code* is and then call Rev Canada or a customs broker (PeaceBridge PBB, Fritz, etc.) to verify.


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## IronMac (Sep 22, 2003)

If you're willing to wait until tomorrow I can ask my g/f who purchased her iPod from J&R a couple of months ago. The treatment should be about the same for your MP3 player.


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## Rob (Sep 14, 2002)

It's the customs brokerage fees that will kill you. This all depends on who ships the package.

UPS are the ripoff kings. Never get anything shipped by UPS from the US. They charge OUTRAGEOUS brokerage fees (customs clearance fees).

I repeat, DO NOT USE UPS!!!!!

The cheapest way is almost always by regular mail. The US post office sends the package to Canada. The Canadian post office gets the package and sends you a card to let you know the package is there and what you want to do with it (sometimes they don't even bother and just ship you the package). If you pick up the package you pay taxes and duty as appropriate but you don't pay a brokerage fee since you are doing it yourself. 

If you are too far away from a major centre to do the pickup routine, then you don't have any cheap options. 

If you are importing expensive items that aren't too heavy you can ship by "Overnight Air". The cost for overnight air is higher than regular land courier, but it usually includes brokerage fees. This will end up being cheaper in the long term.

Since overnight air can cost $20 min. it sounds expensive compared to $10 land courier. The shock happens when your $80 purchase results in a $20 brokerage fee (See DO NOT USE UPS above!!!!)

There was a link on the CBC website for an episode of Marketplace that explained all about these brokerage fee scams. Unfortunately, I can't find it now. Do a search. 

There is also some good info on the Canadian Customs web site. Do a search there.

Edit: Found the Marketplace link, it's scarier than I remembered.

Buyer Beware: Brokerage Fees


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## Mac Jedi (Sep 28, 2004)

Once I ordered some radio stuff from US (100 USD) customs clearance was 40 CAD by UPS broker. Be careful.


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## Rob (Sep 14, 2002)

It looks like I wasn't quite right about Canada Customs. They now want a $5 "handling fee" for taxable goods shipped to Canada by mail.

Even the government is in on the scam


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## Pylonman (Aug 16, 2004)

I got some iMac ram from the states and they sent it FedEx. It cost roughly $39.00 US converted to $53.00 cdn. 3 weeks after I placed the order, a courier dude came to my place and said I had to pay him, right there, on the spot, $11.35 for my package. Of course I didn't have it cash, so I had to use the credit card. A bit of a pain.

Afterwards, I talked to my next door neighbour which does alot of eBaying. He says he has a mailbox across the border and gets everthing shipped there. Then brings it all back and does the duty thing...


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## PosterBoy (Jan 22, 2002)

UPS is going to charge me a 20$ fee tomorrow morning when they come to drop off my stuff from Think Geek. It's annoying, but Think Geek only seems to offer UPS shipping, ground or air. 

I usually get stuff shipped by USPS, which is slower but has never charged me a fee.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

It's not USPS who would charge you, it would be Canada Post and they do charge a $5 brokerage fee on top of any taxes or duties. The funny thing is they are very inconsistant about it. Also be aware that some items declared as "low" value may not be subject to this.

FedEx is also required to collect GST & PST and charges $7 brokerage fee which they will collect on delivery if required. If the shipper collects the taxes and covers the brokerage then there is no ROD on the shipment and they just deliver the package.

Simple fact is that all these courier services (FedEx, UPS, DHL, Purolator, etc) have been recruited by Rev Canada to be tax collectors, so expect to be hit with these charges.


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## Griller (Jan 17, 2002)

> ...
> I repeat, DO NOT USE UPS!!!!!
> ...


Do use UPS.

*UPS is awesome.* I had to ship a care package to a remote village in a country on the other side of the world and it got there. It was a few days late but in turn I was not charged for the shipment. I was impressed that they actually found the place!


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## ErnstNL (Apr 12, 2003)

I assume you know of the Creative Canadian site? Is the item not available here?

Creative Canada Site

My Mistake:  
OOPS! they charge duties and taxes too and all prices are in USD. Darn, I thought it would be shipped in Canada and in CDN $.

[ October 08, 2004, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: ErnstNL ]


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## gordguide (Jan 13, 2001)

Technically, there could be duties due, since the product isn't manufactured in the US. Duty depends on the country of origin (where it was made).

However, I've never had CCRA bother with such things, they just use USA as the country of origin and leave it at that. So, no duty (or at least, it's never happened to me, and I've shipped/crossed with a lot of stuff from the US).

There are no media levies due on anything imported by individual consumers. Levies are only paid at the wholesale level, which you aren't doing, so you're exempt.

GST and (depending on which province you live in) PST will be due. That's where you may run into problems.

Compaines like FedEx and UPS are not brokers, so they use a commercial broker to clear the shipment. Since these guys are in the business of providing service to businesses, they charge accordingly. Typically $20 to $50. Ouch.

Canada Post charges a flat $5 fee to clear shipments. Because of this, it's generally cheapest to get the item shipped by United States Postal Service (USPS).

Note that if the item is unusually heavy/large, etc then Canada Post may elect to have it delivered by Purolator Courier, in which case brokerage fees will apply (although they are usually less than UPS's, it will be more than $5).

If your vendor doesn't offer USPS shipment, then you are going to have to check out the site of the carrier they use. For example, if they only use FedEx then go to the FedEx USA site and read the various conditons attached to the shipping options.

What you're looking for is Brokerage/Customs Clearing included in the price. Generally this is one of the value added options (say, 2-day Air). It's worthwhile to check from time to time, because couriers change the conditions/services offered. (They do this because it's a very competitive business).

Then, pay the extra shipping charge option, which is usually less than Ground plus Brokerage.

Make sure you try both when you order so you have an idea of exactly what the extra shipping is versus the likely brokerage fee, and take care that the option you want is exactly the one offered (the shipping options have cryptically similar names).

The final option (not available with USPS/Canada Post) is to clear the shipment yourself, which costs you nothing. This involves contacting the courier BEFORE the item is delivered (but after you have a tracking or invoice number), getting the paperwork, taking it to your local CCRA office, and paying the GST, then returing the paperwork to the courier. Essentially, you are the broker.

The last option isn't very complicated once you do it a few times, but can be daunting if you've never dealt with customs before. You must follow certain procedures to the letter, but otherwise it's just a bit of driving around and an hour or so of your time.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

> Compaines like FedEx and UPS are not brokers, so they use a commercial broker to clear the shipment.


That is incorrect, Gordguide.

FedEx has been clearing it's inbound freight for years, all inbound customs clearances are in-house. The fee is $7 CDN. Which is reasonable considering they also collect the GST/PST and remit to CCRS on top of clearing your freight. They also own what used to be C.J. Towers (US), now known as FedEx Trade Networks.

UPS also has it's own broker... what used to be Livingston International on the Canadian side and they also own Fritz on the US side.


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## MBD (Sep 1, 2003)

Did you look and see if it is available on ecost.com? They have a Canadian check out option that translates it to Canadian funds and adds all the fees. I haven't used them myself, but people on this forum have had good experiences with them.


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## Fink-Nottle (Feb 25, 2001)

Thanks all... I've ordered it and it should be here for my birthday next week. 

*The Creative Muvo TX FM*

(I love iPods BUT I want FM, plus this is small and I can use it as a Flash drive. Very cool!)


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## ErnstNL (Apr 12, 2003)

That looks a neat unit and the price is pretty good.


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## Rob (Sep 14, 2002)

Let us know how you like the Muvo TX FM after you play with it a bit.
It sounds like a handy little device.


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## Fink-Nottle (Feb 25, 2001)

Okay... I've had it a couple of days so here's the scoop for anyone who's interested.

Plusses:
-Lots of space
-Works flawlessly as a Flash Drive
-Small, light and solid... perfect!
-Radio has good reception and is easy to set. Autoscan is nice.
-Armband and carry case work well.
-Sound is crisp
-Battery life looking good... I haven't dented the Energizer yet: after several hours it's still reading at maximum.

Minuses
-Volume could be louder
-Controls could be more intuitive. I have to look at the device screen when I switch from MP3s to radio. I've also hit the wrong thing several times.
-Not very iTunes compatible... it kind of works but you have to move songs using the Finder if you want to use subfolders. You then have to delete invisible files. Also I can't upgrade the firmware on a Mac: i have to borrow a PC.
-Crappy earphones... I replaced them right away.

All said though, I like the thing. It make the commute much easier. Cheers!


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## Fink-Nottle (Feb 25, 2001)

Okay... I've had it a couple of days so here's the scoop for anyone who's interested.

Plusses:
-Lots of space
-Works flawlessly as a Flash Drive
-Small, light and solid... perfect!
-Radio has good reception and is easy to set. Autoscan is nice.
-Armband and carry case work well.
-Sound is crisp
-Battery life looking good... I haven't dented the Energizer yet: after several hours it's still reading at maximum.

Minuses
-Volume could be louder
-Controls could be more intuitive. I have to look at the device screen when I switch from MP3s to radio. I've also hit the wrong thing several times.
-Not very iTunes compatible... it kind of works but you have to move songs using the Finder if you want to use subfolders. You then have to delete invisible files. Also I can't upgrade the firmware on a Mac: i have to borrow a PC.
-Crappy earphones... I replaced them right away.

All said though, I like the thing. It make the commute much easier. Cheers!


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## Rob (Sep 14, 2002)

Thanks for the review. 
It sounds like it still offers pretty good value, but not quite the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I have a couple of extra questions about it.
Did you buy it at Canada Computers, or did you order it from the U.S.?

Have you tried the recording feature (voice or radio)? Is there a port for an external microphone?

Thanks again.


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## Fink-Nottle (Feb 25, 2001)

Hi Rob,

I ordered it direct from the Creative website; the 512 meg model wasn't available anywhere else.

The recording feature works nicely. There is a built in microphone and the sensitivity seems decent; certainly good enough to record a conversation or a lecture. There is no port for an external microphone though.

The radio record function works too although the quality isn't high fidelity... it sounds more like AM radio. Not a problem for me but I probably wouldn't buy it if I wanted to record music off the radio.

Cheers!


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## Rob (Sep 14, 2002)

Thanks for the update.


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## Rob (Sep 14, 2002)

Wow, the Muvo TX FM seems to be really popular. I was down on the College St. computer strip in Toronto yesterday and everyone was sold out. 

There were lots of alternatives, but the Muvo TX FM is significantly less expensive than the rest of the pack.


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## Fink-Nottle (Feb 25, 2001)

It's a great deal right now and it's the only unit with the USB Key design. Since I posted that review I purchased a pair of Sony headphones that cover the ear and give much better sound.

Cheers!


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## Rob (Sep 14, 2002)

Fink-Nottle, it sounds like you bought in at just the right time. How much did the 512MB version cost direct from Creative?

Wodehouse fan? It just suddenly clued in to why the name sounded so familiar.


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## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

MBD, thanks for the info on eCost.com! A 20GB iPod at Apple.ca costs CAN$493.35 including taxes. At eCost, the price including EVERYTHING is CAN$424.94. The details from eCost are as follows:



> For your convenience, we give you a guaranteed total purchase price in Canadian dollars, including all applicable duties, taxes and shipping and handling costs. There are no hidden charges.


20Gb iPod
Subtotal: $353.39
Shipping: Standard - 5-14 business days $7.84
Handling: $9.49
GST / HST: $25.95
PST: $28.27
Total Price: $424.94

How about a dual 2.5Ghz G5 powermac?

Apple Store: CAN$4,828.00 including taxes and shipping

TOTAL cost from eCost to Canada: $4361.08

That's a savings of $560.39 -- or a free 20GB iPod.

That's tough to beat.

BUT! What about Apple warranties?? Void in Canada??


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## monokitty (Jan 26, 2002)

Wait, wait, wait.. how does eCost manage to skip duty fees? That seems particuarlary strange to me... an iPod mini is $30+ cheaper than from Apple.ca. Not bad, but how are they skipping duty/brokerage fees? I can hardly believe those fees are the listed "GST/HST" fees, as wouldn't those be the sales tax fees? (rather than duty fees.)


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## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

Well, I'm assuming that the "handling fee" is actually the brokerage fee. That's what brokerage is; an intermediary "handling" the product.

As for duty, I don't think there is duty. Is there? If you're paying sales tax (specifically, GST) are you not fine? I've bought a few things -- not a lot -- such as RAm and my processor upgrade. I think I recall paying a brokerage fee and not anything such as "duty" to the government.

Can anybody clarify this?


PS: the iPod is $70.00 cheaper from eCost and not $30.00... if they have all the costs accounted for, of course.


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## Fink-Nottle (Feb 25, 2001)

He Rob,

Including shipping (Fedex Priority), I ended up paying $208 CDN for the Muvo TX FM with 512 megs. That was a couple of weeks ago so thanks to the US dollar's fall, it would be cheaper now.

If you don't care about the USB Key design, they are selling a new model, the MuVo Micro N200 512MB, for the same price. It has the same specs but is smaller, lighter and has a line in port. The only drawback is you lose the nice two part design and have to connect it to your computer with a USB cable.

--

You are correct about the Wodehouse reference. Back at university my wife, who is more a Jeeves type, had my schedule memorized whereas I could never remember it. Thus I became Fink-Nottle, a character who can't remember anything. My English accent probably had something to do with it too.

Cheers!


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## Rob (Sep 14, 2002)

I doubt the handling fee will be brokerage. Often it's just putting the object in an appropriate container for shipping (bubble wrap packaging, etc.). The brokerage cost has always been something that's handled by the carrier. I've never dealt with eCost, but it's unlikely they cover the brokerage fees unless they clearly call it that.


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## Macaholic (Jan 7, 2003)

Good points Rob. A call to eCost might be warranted.


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## Rob (Sep 14, 2002)

I finally got a MuVo TX FM too. It's the 512MB version. It was at a store on the College street strip in Toronto. Price was $156 +tax. I've been using it to record some CBC radio shows for later playback. 
Thanks for the feedback Fink Nottle, your description was right on the mark. So far I'm pretty happy with it.


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## Fink-Nottle (Feb 25, 2001)

Excellent price... well done! Glad you like it... after a month I'm still very happy with mine.

Cheers!


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