# Mac games (software) in Canada



## dusanv (Oct 21, 2005)

Hi,

Where do you get your Mac games (and general software) in Canada? Apple Store is a tad too expensive (I see Amazon in US selling same stuff way cheaper, Apple sticks to MSRP until they stop carrying the item). I used to get stuff in CopuSmart.

Thanks.


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## Number5 (Apr 25, 2006)

*Where are you?*

It would be easier to help you if people knew where you lived. Then you could get specific replies.


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## dusanv (Oct 21, 2005)

Ottawa, ON. Thanks.


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## shane3547 (May 25, 2005)

If your looking to purchase, Online at the Apple store. That's the best spot to get them.


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## dusanv (Oct 21, 2005)

Does anyone here actually buy software, other than from Apple??


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Most of the software I purchase comes directly from the developer--Adobe, Panic, etc. As far as games go... sometimes you're better off getting it over the web either as a direct download or via an online store. I think the last time I bought a game from an actual store would have been SimCity 4 at CompuSmart.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

dusanv said:


> Does anyone here actually buy software, other than from Apple??


I should probably be insulted.

Yes, I buy hundreds of dollars PER YEAR of software both new and upgraded. And you (meaning anyone reading this) should too.

A recent study showed that Mac users were MUCH (as in dramatically) more honest than PC users, and paid for their software x multiples more often than PC users.

This is not just a statistic that makes us look good, it's a statistic we NEED to uphold.

First of all, no matter how cool WE all think the Mac is, the truth of the matter is that it's a TINY minority in the computer biz, so it is MUCH MUCH harder for a developer to make a living (never mind a profit!) selling Mac-only software than it is for a Windows company to sell crapware. Never mind the fact that Mac users are infamously picky and demand BETTER software than Windows, the bottom line is that there just aren't that many of us around compared to the Windows crowd. Sure Apple's selling better than it has since the early 80s, but we're still (at best) approaching 8% marketshare. So that's 90% of the computer dollars being spent on Windows/PC related stuff. If you were a dev, how could you justify to your CEO the time and effort to develop high-quality Mac software with numbers like that?

I just can't stress this enough: Apple can make all the cool hardware it wants to, but without TONS of third-party developers, the platform WILL eventually die out. It looks reasonably secure for the short-term, but Windows WILL eventually improve (or be replaced with something better), and Apple can't keep hardware-innovating forever.

Secondly, all you fanboys out there that pray daily for the death of Microsoft, PIRACY IS THE KEY. In the old days, MS turned a blind eye to a lot of piracy because it forced people to adopt the platform and locked-in users. Now that's no longer true, and they're ALL ABOUT the DRM and the software activation and the dongles and anything else they can think of to spy more on you and what you're doing, and keep you from pirating their stuff. NOW it's hurting them.

If you enjoy this idea and want to see it spread to the Mac platform even more than it already has, PLEASE DO KEEP PIRATING MAC SOFTWARE. I guarantee it will happen.

Third, for a platform to reach critical mass, you need excited developers. Apple has been keeping their devs reasonably happy, but what makes them happiest is when they make money. Piracy does not provide for that, and 95% of Mac developers truly and honestly deserve to be paid for the work they do and the service they provide. If you're any kind of honest and ethical person, you pay for the software you use.

So, to summarise and expand, here are the reasons you should pay for Mac software:
1. Assures the future of expanded software choices and improved quality.
2. Keeps developers interested in staying with the platform through the "tough times" if they know they can count on customer loyalty.
3. Allows Mac users a factual foundation for smug air of superiority that PC users hate so much. The study referenced above makes it pretty plain: honest Mac users ARE superior to PC users.
4. Assures the future of Apple.
5. Piracy saves money UP FRONT, but costs WAY more in the long haul. I'm not hurting ONE BIT for having spent "all that money" on shareware/commercial apps over the years: on the contrary, I've got the tools and support I need to MAKE money and do whatever I need to do (whether it be for profit or not) more efficiently and enjoyably.
6. Giving money directly to devs (shareware is a good example) is actually a lot of fun, because you establish a relationship with them and build community.
7. Prices are crazy cheap just now, and Mac software is generally a very good value to start with. See below.

Jjust at the moment it's rather ridiculous to contemplating Mac piracy -- in addition to the good reasons above, there's a TON of Mac software (mostly shareware, but damn good shareware!) on sale at CRAZY prices just now:

MacUpdate Promo - Big discounts on Mac software every day.
MacSanta: Great Deals On Hundreds Of Mac Products

Just two examples. More is out there.


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

I agree with the above to an extent. Apple will never go out of business. It has created such a loyal community. I am doing substantial research on terrorist pathology right now for an article and it is quite interesting that I could most likely apply the concept of group utility, albeit to an extent, to the Mac community. That is, if Apple was threatening to go out of business people would be so frightened a the idea of a PC only world that massive donations, enormous stock purchases would ensue. Apple is PCs only rival, if there another major OS that joined in the picture I could see it. That said, in this polarized market Apple would most likely develop its own software if third party developers would not. I am not contesting your values or ethics, I think they are quite admirable, unfortunately more to not share them. But to say that Apple will not survive because of this, I would argue is quite erroneous. 



Cheers!


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Adrian. said:


> Get a good torrent of roxio toast titanium and go hunting the torrent sites. Not that I do this. Unfortunately, the internet is poorly stocked with mac games and about the only ones you can get are age of empires II & III, Halo, Unreal Tournament, Homeworld I & II and Age of Mythology. I think a better bet, and what I want to do once I get leopard, is to just run windows and buy windows games; better selection, better availability, cheaper and you're not sitting around jealous for a year because the game is out for PC and macsoft hasn't gotten their act together and put a mac version out yet. I know previously that running a windows games weak and spotty with the mac processors, but that they are intel I would think it would be a lot better.
> 
> Cheers!


Inside Mac Games

They have fresh stock and their shelves are always full. 

_And just say no to piracy. It's counterproductive to the apparent lack of Mac games._


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## SoyMac (Apr 16, 2005)

MannyP Design said:


> .. I think the last time I bought a game from an actual store would have been SimCity 4 at CompuSmart.


Manny, did you come over on the Nina, The Pinta, or the Santa Maria?!  

Just kidding, old man.


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

I've bought Mac games from the CDROM Store in the past,
But lately they have changed their names into two distinct stores.

There used to be a big online store called Camelot...I think that's what it was,
But lately I've turned to shopping on eBay.ca for all the games I desire.

Good Luck!

Dave


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## dusanv (Oct 21, 2005)

chas_m said:


> I should probably be insulted.
> 
> ...
> 
> PLEASE DO KEEP PIRATING MAC SOFTWARE.


Please don't be insulted. Just tell me where you get your stuff.

And while I mostly agree that piracy helps popularize large software packages, I think piracy hurts game developers. I mean, you'll likely keep using Adobe Photoshop for years after originally learning it and you (or your firm) probably buy it eventually. Whereas you only play a game once or twice and then bin it. If that's pirated, the developer gets nothing.

Thanks Dolawren and Manny...


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## Lawrence (Mar 11, 2003)

chas_m said:


> First of all, no matter how cool WE all think the Mac is, the truth of the matter is that it's a TINY minority in the computer biz, so it is MUCH MUCH harder for a developer to make a living (never mind a profit!) selling Mac-only software than it is for a Windows company to sell crapware. Never mind the fact that Mac users are infamously picky and demand BETTER software than Windows, the bottom line is that there just aren't that many of us around compared to the Windows crowd. Sure Apple's selling better than it has since the early 80s, but we're still (at best) approaching 8% marketshare. So that's 90% of the computer dollars being spent on Windows/PC related stuff. If you were a dev, how could you justify to your CEO the time and effort to develop high-quality Mac software with numbers like that?
> 
> I just can't stress this enough: Apple can make all the cool hardware it wants to, but without TONS of third-party developers, the platform WILL eventually die out. It looks reasonably secure for the short-term, but Windows WILL eventually improve (or be replaced with something better), and Apple can't keep hardware-innovating forever.
> 
> ...


I just love the way you write...Keep giving us great input.

Thanks!

Dave


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

I've bought...

Simcity 4 for $69.99, Simcity 4 Rush Hour Expansion for $36.99, and Unreal Tournament 2004 for $54.99 from MacStation. 
Railroad Tycoon 3 (used for $9.99) at EB Games.
Halo for $29.95 at London Drugs.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

SoyMac said:


> Manny, did you come over on the Nina, The Pinta, or the Santa Maria?!
> 
> Just kidding, old man.


Hey, whoa, easy now! LOL

That's not to say I haven't _bought_ a game since then... just not physically _from_ a store per se. :lmao:


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## gwillikers (Jun 19, 2003)

dona83 said:


> I've bought...
> 
> Simcity 4 for $69.99, Simcity 4 Rush Hour Expansion for $36.99, and Unreal Tournament 2004 for $54.99 from MacStation.
> Railroad Tycoon 3 (used for $9.99) at EB Games.
> Halo for $29.95 at London Drugs.


Ditto, I've bought games from those places too. And I don't hesitate to use Amazon Canada for books and Mac software as well.


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## Suge (Oct 29, 2007)

Don't forget Steam!


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

Dave, thanks for the kind words.

A couple of points to clarify: I just want to make it clear that I'm NOT saying you shouldn't bargain-hunt, or try things out. I'm NOT saying p2p and other file-trading systems don't have useful, legal, and semi-legal but important qualities.

I'm simply saying that if you DO use a piece of software regularly (even for a fairly limited time), you are morally obligated to pay the developer. That's how the system works, and that's hopefully how your parents raised you.

Think of how much easier and better life would be if we could trust the majority of people to be honest and ethical. In point of fact, Steve Jobs said himself that he believes this to be true; that making the buying experience inexpensive and easy would compel people to act ethically. The lack of anti-piracy software on Mac OS X, the success of iTunes, the "Family Pack" concept and other successes on Apple's part points to the truth of this idea (and the RIAA/MPAA's problems point to their ignorance of the first half of Steve's maxim).

I don't know about you, but I'd rather live in Steve's world of mostly-ethical people and easy, inexpensive buying than Bill's world of "the user is assumed to be a thief and must be circumvented at all costs." I'd rather Steve's ideas took root in the business (and entertainment!!) world than Bill's.

The way to do that is to BE the "superior" Mac users mentioned in the study I cited -- and pay for the software you use regularly.

Okay, lecture over. I gotta get the deposit back on this soapbox.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

How did you jump to the conclusion that anyone was talking about pirating Mac software?
I was really taken aback by your first post in this thread......did someone delete part of their post so that your reply doesn't make sense any more?

In any case, to comment on the original question - I was surprised at the number of Mac games amazon.ca carries - just ordered two shortly before Christmas.

One thing I found is that prices vary wildly from retailer to retailer, so doing a bit of research on the net could save you some money.

And as to pirating being common in the Windows world - one reason I think this is true is because a lot of the Windows software sucks.
I bought two pieces of Windows software a few years ago for the PC in the office. neither one delivered on the features promised on the cover description and of course the store won't take it back after the package is opened.
A real rip off by the company and the software developer - if that happened to me on a regular basis where the software doesn't deliver what it advertizes, I would probably be really hesitant buying more of it as well.

Sort of interesting - not only is false advertizing illegal in Canada, but if a product doesn't deliver what it is advertized as, the retailer has no problems taking it back for a refund.
Not so with software - they can sell you garbage and a consumer has no recourse (other than maybe bitching on the net).


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

There was no jump to conclusion:



Adrian. said:


> Get a good torrent of roxio toast titanium and go hunting the torrent sites.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

krs said:


> How did you jump to the conclusion that anyone was talking about pirating Mac software?
> I was really taken aback by your first post in this thread......did someone delete part of their post so that your reply doesn't make sense any more?


No ... dusanv's original comment (which I will re-quote -- "Does anybody actually buy software here except from Apple?" -- seemed to me to endorse, if not literally advocate, software piracy. It implies that pirating games (or whatever) is the normal, standard, accepted method of obtaining what you want.

If I read too much into dusanv's comment, and over-reacted, he didn't seem to mind in his later post (which I'm about to respond to). I think he understood that I was not only talking to him, but to other readers of this thread, particularly the impressionable youngsters. 



> And as to pirating being common in the Windows world - one reason I think this is true is because a lot of the Windows software sucks.


You've said something very sage there. If the quality is bad, people will want to really investigate the software before paying for it, ergo bypassing demo limitations and full-blown piracy. Good point, and probably a factor less considered when surveys show Mac users pay more often for software than Windows people.


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

dusanv said:


> Please don't be insulted. Just tell me where you get your stuff.


I deal whenever possible with the developers themselves, so we're talking about places like:
Ambrosia Software, Inc. -- news
Aspyr
Freeverse: Games and Applications for Mac OS X, Windows, and Game Consoles
MacSoft
Pangea Software Home Page
Virtual Programming, Virtual Programming leading Macintosh computer games publisher

And of course Inside Mac Games

Then I look at deals like MacSanta: Great Deals On Hundreds Of Mac Products and MacUpdate Promo - Big discounts on Mac software every day. to find bargains, then I look at things like Amazon.ca: Online shopping for Canadians - books, music, DVDs, software, video games & more and finally I will look to local indie Mac resellers like Soho, Restart and WestWorld (here in Victoria) and Mac Station and the others in Vancouver.

Course I'm not much of a gamer. If I were, I'd buy an XBox or PS3 or Wii so that I didn't have to play catch-up with my system all the time. I'm a firm believer that gaming is best done on a game console.


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## eggman (Jun 24, 2006)

chas_m said:


> No ... dusanv's original comment (which I will re-quote -- "Does anybody actually buy software here except from Apple?" -- seemed to me to endorse, if not literally advocate, software piracy. It implies that pirating games (or whatever) is the normal, standard, accepted method of obtaining what you want.
> 
> If I read too much into dusanv's comment, and over-reacted, he didn't seem to mind in his later post (which I'm about to respond to). I think he understood that I was not only talking to him, but to other readers of this thread, particularly the impressionable youngsters.


I think you have read too much into it chas_m.

If it actually endorsed it - I don't think it would have been phrased that way. I read the post more as containing sad resignation rather than anything criminal... but I guess that would depend on an individual's sensitivities and point of view.

I try not to think the worst first... but as I mentioned it does depend on an individuals experience, sensitivities and point of view.

I would deduce from their lack of reaction that dusanv has either spent too much time on message boards to be offended by a slightly mis-directed post or they care enough about the actual answer to look beyond any potential slight.

To respond to the original post (as chas_m has already done - bringing the thread back (again ) to its original track) with a couple of "me-toos" I have bought games at less than MSRP at amazon.ca (there were a couple of sales in the past year and I found some good software for the kids), eBay (I've been lucky or careful in my seller selection and gotten original discs with valid license keys).
Once upon a time I found things that were "accidentally Mac" at Costco (Starcraft box set for example - both the PC and Mac versions) but it has been a while since they've had anything like that in the bins... come to think of it, it has been a while since they've had bins.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

MannyP Design said:


> There was no jump to conclusion:


I take it that post by Adrian that you quoted was deleted.
I don't see it now and I didn't see it when I posted.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

krs said:


> I take it that post by Adrian that you quoted was deleted.
> I don't see it now and I didn't see it when I posted.


I think you're right. Looking back it was likely edited or removed.


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## Kosh (May 27, 2002)

Last time I bought a Mac game I bought it at CompuSmart at Rideau which closed about a year ago. They had a small collection of the most recent games. I'm not sure where I'm gonna shop now... I'm gonna have to buy UT3 for the Mac from somewhere. Maybe the new Carbon store will have it. When I couldn't find what I was looking for there, I would check or call CDW Canada - IT Products and Services for Business and the Public Sector or with my most recent software (Diskwarrior and Visual Hub) I just purchased it from the States online.


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

chas_m said:


> A recent study showed that Mac users were MUCH (as in dramatically) more honest than PC users, and paid for their software x multiples more often than PC users.


Statements like this require a _bona fide_ reference to be credible. "A recent study" is NOT a _bona fide_ reference.


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## gmark2000 (Jun 4, 2003)

Camelot.ca - No PST outside of Quebec and 10% off with use of Visa and savings coupon. Otherwise, Amazon.ca has some titles.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

gmark2000 said:


> Camelot.ca - No PST outside of Quebec and 10% off with use of Visa and savings coupon. Otherwise, Amazon.ca has some titles.


camelot.ca closed down nearly a year ago??


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## chas_m (Dec 2, 2007)

rgray said:


> Statements like this require a _bona fide_ reference to be credible. "A recent study" is NOT a _bona fide_ reference.


I was just being lazy. The story made the rounds of the Mac news sites QUITE recently so I assumed most people here had read it.

I'll try not to be so lazy next time. 

Here's one of the many stories on this I saw, and the actual press release straight from the company who did the study.*

*You have to pay hundreds, if not thousands, to get a copy of the actual study, as is the case with most surveys. Luckily the summary is free. 

MacNN story: MacNN | Study: Mac users more honest than PC brethren
Press release: NPD Press Release - December 19, 2007


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## lightbulb (Oct 24, 2005)

I managed to get a couple of last minute games: Homeworld 2 & Sims Pet Stories, at the last minute from Amazon.ca. I couldn't find Homeworld on the shelf in Toronto and by paying the extra $15 for express shipping, I ordered them on Thursday and received them Friday. They were both discounted and I was more than happy for the convenience although I would normally support my local shop.


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