# Bird friendly shrubs and tree..what to plant.



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Lost a bunch of backyard cover due to snow bending the cedars - pulled one right down flat with the roots sticking out 

Want to replace them with fast growing and tough trees/shrubs that birds like.

Stuff with berries, sun tolerant and I'm not much on watering 

It's mainly the stuff up against the house I'd like to replace quickest.
South facing so it gets a lot of heat.

Suggestions??? Saw one bewildered sparrow with a bunch of grass in his beak and NO TREE!!!!!


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Came across this - was unfamiliar with it - anyone experience with this in Canada



> In the Northeast, last month we were 3" behind in annual rainfall and today, we're approaching our 100-year record. Yesterday, it was hard to glimpse daylight, let alone appreciate the year's longest day.
> This bird-friendly, easy-care *serviceberry*, gracing a friend's front yard, brightens a rainy June day.
> 
> 
> ...


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

Consider a Golden Elder. We've had them for ages. Fairly adaptable, very easy to maintain, depending on the variety there'll be loads of berries for the critters to eat. Go here and scroll down to _Sambucus - Golden Elder_.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

That looks good












> A spreading shrub with yellow foliage to make a sunny contrast in shrub borders. Rapid grower that thrives in moist soil. Great for a quick hedge.Tiny white flowersand red fruits that will attract birds. Grows to 12 feet. Full Sun. Zone: 3.


Right height and likes full sun. I suspect the soil is reasonably moist right next to the house and for sure is in the one area near the hot tub and tap.
Thanks that looks like a winner for that area for sure.

Grows quick too. :clap:


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

Won't be too big the first year (depending on what size plant you buy of course) but they will really take off as of year two. 

They're extremely soft wood with a large pithy core, and are easy to trim; most of the time you will only need secaturs or a small lopper. I've taken to cutting ours right back to the stump every Fall after the first hard frost - and they come back strong in the spring. If you don't prune them they'll get quite large but they're so easy to deal with, size doesn't matter.

When the berries have set and ripened the birds will have a real feast. The berries grow in tight bunches all over the elder. Very dark purple / black berries - don't let them squish against the house (or your clothing) to avoid staining.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Great - found a couple of places with them.
Probably get larger size to survive my inattention


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

MacDoc said:


> Came across this - was unfamiliar with it - anyone experience with this in Canada


 I was listening to CBC's Radio Noon out of Halifax today. The phone-in dealt with gardening with native plants. You can listen to it hear the discussion of the Phone-in at CBC Maritimes | Programs | Maritime Noon | Phone-Ins the show at April 25th show (as of 3 PM ADT has not been updated yet) (the spelling bee was last weeks show) but soon should be updated.

The "serviceberry" is mentioned as a wide ranging native North American plant. Needs little care or watering. It is good for four seasons of colour not just when it blooms.

One grew, as I don't believe it was ever "planted," on the property line of a house I owned and my neighbors between the two driveways and it thrived with no care.


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## duosonic (Jan 7, 2004)

I'm in a totally different environment than you are, but perhaps some of these would work anyway:

amelanchier (saskatoonberry) as already mentioned

elderberry (sambuca) as also already mentioned

lilac - with their dense thicket of stalks & branches, these provide wonderful winter cover for birds around my house throughout the winter and early spring

virginia creeper - on a trellis, growing up alongside the house, or on a fence; birds love the vines and leaves for cover, and the berries for nibbling 

wild rose - with a birdbath nearby, they love this

a mixture of coniferous and deciduous; tall and understory, to give the birds a variety of habitats to occupy (in addition to lilacs, roses, etc. and shrubs, I also have maples, poplars and fir)

good luck!


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## MacGuiver (Sep 6, 2002)

My folks have a mountain ash. Its a bird magnet and its quite pretty in the fall when the berry's are ripe. The robins seem especially attracted to it. They usually hang out until they strip it clean. Not an overly big tree either if you're looking for a medium sized tree.

Cheers
Macguiver.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Most of the back yard is decently bushy - cherry and cedars but the three trees that came down opened a fair bit of space so figured I'd give the birds a treat and keep the house a bit cooler at the same time.

Some good ideas there.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Well a couple hundred dollars later the yard is looking much better and golden elder planted about with a forsythia out front for dressup 
You can see a couple planted bottom right.
Any tips on getting them established?? TIA

That big bare spot was where the 20' cedar lay all winter. 

Now next request is what can I use that is perennial ground cover - I don't want a flower garden - just ground cover that may be critter friendly - I need it for the front yard as well.

Thoughts

here is the space 










South of the house to lots of morning sun then shaded by the fence. Something that grows quickly, shades the ground from drying out. Myrtle or some such.
Need similar for smaller but dryer spots at the front of the house.

Especially anything that stays low with berries.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

MacDoc said:


> Well a couple hundred dollars later the yard is looking much better and golden elder planted about with a forsythia out front for dressup
> You can see a couple planted bottom right.
> Any tips on getting them established?? TIA
> 
> ...



Vinca  (Periwinkle) is really nice ground cover. Tolerates dry and moderately wet soil. will grow in full sun to relatively deep shade. Very pretty, very hardy, nice flowers, no berries though.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Thanks

Can one mix periwinkle and myrtle??

Is there a clover that does well in lawns?


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

MacDoc said:


> Thanks
> 
> Can one mix periwinkle and myrtle??
> 
> Is there a clover that does well in lawns?


I'm not familiar with myrtle but I have vinca in my shade garden with about four other species of ground cover (ajuga, creeping jenny, sedum, thyme) and they coexist quite nicely. The only thing about periwinkle is that if it is happy where it is it will spread like crazy. A good thing or a bad thing depending on your perspective. It does take pruning quite well though, you can be quite aggressive with it that way. In fact in the Fall I take the lawn mower to it (on the highest setting). It hasn't hurt it yet and that is after 8 years of doing so.

As far as clover goes, I have never deliberately planted it, but where it has invaded in my lawn is sure seems to be happy. Additionally we had a terrible infestation of grubs (June Bug larvae) in this region a few years ago that actually completely devastated a lot of peoples lawns. There was a lot of talk about what you can do to get rid of them. Of course pesticide is the most effective method but a lot of people were looking for a "greener" solution. Many replanted with clover (I'm sorry I can't tell you what variety) instead of grass and they have done very well. Grubs apparently don't like clover.


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## titans88 (Oct 3, 2007)

Some great suggestions already. I'm not horticulturalist, but spent a few summers working in nursery.

Perhaps I missed it (and I do tend to miss the obvious) but where are you located Macdoc? Obviously the choices available to you differ for whatever region you are in.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

GTA. where spring is on the go.....my view out the window this morning :clap:


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## titans88 (Oct 3, 2007)

Depending on colour variation that you are looking for, some suggestions I have would be:

PurpleLeaf Sandcherry
Any variety of Ninebarks (colour variations from rich greens to purples and reds)
Cotoneaster 
Dogwoods

I could probably go on forever.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

MacDoc said:


> GTA. where spring is on the go.....my view out the window this morning :clap:


Beautiful Doc. Being further south than us, your spring is further along than ours up here in the National Capital region. We have a little ways to go yet.


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## Lichen Software (Jul 23, 2004)

*Service Berry*



MacDoc said:


> Came across this - was unfamiliar with it - anyone experience with this in Canada


The other name for Service Berry is Saskatoon bush. Very hardy. I grew them in Northern Ontario climate zone 2a.

The berries are like a drier version of a blueberry. Suitable for people as well as birds. the flowers are really pretty in the spring.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Is there any need for a manure mix worked in before planting ground covers??

The areas have not been "gardened" in several years.


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## Lichen Software (Jul 23, 2004)

MacDoc said:


> Thanks
> 
> Can one mix periwinkle and myrtle??
> 
> Is there a clover that does well in lawns?


White clover does fine in lawns if you stay awy from the broadleaf herbicides. I find that I have grass and clover mixed in places. During really dry times, the clover stays green but thins out a bit. As soon as it rains the grass comes back. They sort of fight with each other one or the other wining depending on what is hepping with the weather.

Ground cover for shady places:

Lillly of the valley
Goutweed AKA Bishop's weed
Perriwinkle seems to do well at my neighbours.

I am sort of answering these as I go through them. So if there are other answers, I have not gotten to them yet.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Goutweed (aka Bishop's weed) will take over your garden and you shall NEVER be able to dig it up and get rid of it.


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## Lichen Software (Jul 23, 2004)

*Another bird tree most people don't think of*

If you have a really sunny place, you might want to think about Staghorn Sumac. It does love sun. You want the female tree. It puts out a beautiful red seed cluster that stays all winter. The birds love it after the first frost.

Another interesting thing about this one. I have one at the side of my house, south east corner with lots of sun. There is not much room between
my house and the neighbour. But their wall is in the shade (their north east corner). The sumac grows to the shade line and then quits. It is about 15 - 18 feet high, but stays away from their house.

The vegitation on them is pretty tropical looking. When young, they will grow up to 6 or 7 feet per year. This tails off as they get older.

I also have them growing around my patio.

One thing to note is that they do put out runners. They will spread.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I just ran across the concept of zeriscaping.












> An article in the New York Times, Low-Maintenance Yards, brought xeriscaping to my attention. If you want a detailed definition of xeriscaping, check out Wikipedia.org’s definition here. But basically, xeriscaping is a type of landscaping that does not require supplemental irrigation, in addition to not requiring much maintenance work. According to the NY Times article, xeriscaping is “increasingly being viewed as the most environmentally friendly approach to gardening.”


read more here

Google Image Result for http://farm1.static.flickr.com/13/20099340_ff679ae6b3.jpg


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## titans88 (Oct 3, 2007)

Black Lace Sambuca seems to be really popular these days. Peter Cantley, who runs the Garden Center for NG (Loblaws, RCSS, YIG, Zehrs, et.) operations recently said it was the best selling shrub for the company the last 3 years. I've got a couple, they accent bright colours extremely well.

Black Lace has this incredible foliage, something like a Bloodgood Japanese Maple, with black tones.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

MacDoc said:


> Is there any need for a manure mix worked in before planting ground covers??
> 
> The areas have not been "gardened" in several years.


Yes I would, any head start you can give them all the better. I don't mean to be a product promoter it is just that I have used one for years and it IS a terrific tool for this type of work. A Garden Claw, if you don't already have one, is the perfect tool for working the manure into the soil and it leaves it in perfect shape for easy planting.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

T'aint me doin' the hard work.  but thanks for the tip.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Dr.G. said:


> Goutweed (aka Bishop's weed) will take over your garden and you shall NEVER be able to dig it up and get rid of it.


I second that when it comes to goutweed! The only place I planted it was in my ditch because it covers up some unsightly spots and it can run amok all it wants and if it gets a little out of control, I just put the lawn mower on the lowest level and hack the s**t out of it.


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## Lichen Software (Jul 23, 2004)

*Invasive plants*



screature said:


> I second that when it comes to goutweed! The only place I planted it was in my ditch because it covers up some unsightly spots and it can run amok all it wants and if it gets a little out of control, I just put the lawn mower on the lowest level and hack the s**t out of it.


LOL ... I started using gout weed when I was up north. Who knew that something that actually grows there becomes invasive as you move south.

Here in Barrie, I have it planted along the North and South sides of the house. The lot is not big so there is only about 5 or 6 feet of room. On the South side, it has almost disappeared. Too much sun and too dry. On the North side it is doing just fine. It fights it out with the mint in an area where nothing else wants to grow.

Now if you want Evil Invasiveness - Mint is just Evil. I had it in the herb garden and before I knew it it has not only invaded my lawn, but had gone 4 or 5 feet and under the fence and gotten to my neighbour's lawn. It took a while to get rid of it when I moved it to the side of the house. Every once and awhile when I mow the grass though, I still get the scent of fresh mint.


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

titans88 said:


> Black Lace Sambuca seems to be really popular these days...


Wow, that's gorgeous - I'd never seen that one before. I'll have to visit our local nurseries pretty soon to see if it's available around here. I have a couple of spots where it would fit in nicely... I hope it's suitable for our zone.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Who knew what garden fiends lurked in the ehMac crowd....

caught the sun just coming up under dark clouds - was only there for a minute - love this time of year.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

MacDoc said:


> Who knew what garden fiends lurked in the ehMac crowd....
> 
> caught the sun just coming up under dark clouds - was only there for a minute - love this time of year.


Spring is absolutely my favorite season. Rebirth, warmth without being too hot, throwing off the shackles of winter, physically lighter form not having to wear all that winter gear, and scenes like the one you just posted Doc! I love it.


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## Lichen Software (Jul 23, 2004)

*macDoc - Your Planter*

I was just looking at your back yard pictures again, and being a little jealous in that we are a couple of weeks behind you. 

Looking at your planter, you might want to go and get some 2" x 6" and put topping on it - a 6" ledge with mitered joints on the corners. It will give it a finished look that the straight 4" x 4" does not plus it will act as as seat so people can sit down and have a real good look at what you end up putting there.

I am really envious of the trees. I am working on it here. The Lichen Software Memorial Forest has been planted and some tree3s are getting to be a pretty good size, but you are at the point now where you have both a super storey and and under storey. Really nice.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

That's not our yard - it's the view out the window of the neighbours yard next door ( I can't really shoot ours as the view is blocked by a cherry tree tho ours is well treed too - a bit more ragged - still nice cherry trees and cedars in our yard.
Just need some ground cover and varietal bushes to cover where the cedar trees were lost and some support for the lawn - it got damaged too by the fallen trees. 

The bushes are planted now and next step is ground cover and lawn repair.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Okay got some of the ground cover in but a couple of questions.

How close should the individual periwinkle clumps be placed??

How fast does it spread??

Thanks - it looks a bit sparse especially in the front -


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## titans88 (Oct 3, 2007)

MacDoc said:


> Okay got some of the ground cover in but a couple of questions.
> 
> How close should the individual periwinkle clumps be placed??
> 
> ...


From what I remember, Periwinkle should be planted 12 inches apart, and it should cover that distance before the seasons end.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

MacDoc said:


> Okay got some of the ground cover in but a couple of questions.
> 
> How close should the individual periwinkle clumps be placed??
> 
> ...


What titans88 said. Yes it will look a little sparse in the first season. For water retention, weed prevention and to make the bare spots more attractive the best thing to do is to put down some mulch.

For ground cover areas I like to use Cocoa mulch because it looks really nice and will biodegrade in a year and provides nutrient to the soil. Being that the ground cover should have filled in by then, next season you won't need to top it up. It is more expensive than say cedar chips, but they take a long time to break down and change the pH level of the soil (make it acidic).


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

screature said:


> For ground cover areas I like to use Cocoa mulch because it looks really nice and will biodegrade in a year...


I tried it one summer a few years ago. Easy to use, and it smelled absolutely _wonderful_. Maybe it was because we had a particularly rainy summer that year, but I had to rake the mulch around frequently as it tended to go mouldy underneath with all the moisture about. Maybe I should give it another go this year...


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

The Doug said:


> I tried it one summer a few years ago. Easy to use, and it smelled absolutely _wonderful_. Maybe it was because we had a particularly rainy summer that year, but I had to rake the mulch around frequently as it tended to go mouldy underneath with all the moisture about. Maybe I should give it another go this year...


You don't have to worry about the mold underneath, that is part of the degradation process. You just shouldn't apply it if it is mouldy in the bag (happens sometimes, make sure to have a good look at the bag). Raking it around would actually promote the mould to spread. Once it has been applied and watered in it really should be left alone.

Mulches shouldn't come into direct contact with the base of the plants, you should always leave a couple of inches of exposed soil at the base. If it gets mouldy on top, then you might want to consider replacing it, but that shouldn't happen if the Cocao mulch wasn't mouldy when it was applied.


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## titans88 (Oct 3, 2007)

Cocoa mulch is a great product, but can be a little risky if you have pets. Most consumer cocoa mulch has theobromine in it, and large quantities of that can be lethal for cats, dogs and other animals.

Apparently, a lot of nurseries no longer carry it.

I did a quick google and found this explanation. Check it out:

snopes.com: Cocoa Mulch


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

titans88 said:


> Cocoa mulch is a great product, but can be a little risky if you have pets. Most consumer cocoa mulch has theobromine in it, and large quantities of that can be lethal for cats, dogs and other animals.
> 
> Apparently, a lot of nurseries no longer carry it.
> 
> ...


That is a valid point. I had heard the same as you say from a neighbour last year, about some dogs reportedly dying from ingesting Cocoa mulch. I had completely forgotten about that! However, we have dogs and I have to to say they have never shown any interest in the Cocoa mulch. We keep them on leash so it wouldn't be an issue anyway. 

They would, as you indicated, have to eat large quantities to reach toxic levels. But if you have any concerns at all regarding your own or your neighbour's pets, don't use it. The shredded variety of cedar mulch as opposed to the chunks would be the next most desirable form of biodegradable mulch that I am aware of, although as I said it will tend to make your soil a little more acidic.


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## The Doug (Jun 14, 2003)

screature said:


> ...I said it will tend to make your soil a little more acidic.


Which will be great for your rhododendrons & azaleas!


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## titans88 (Oct 3, 2007)

screature said:


> That is a valid point. I had heard the same as you say from a neighbour last year, about some dogs reportedly dying from ingesting Cocoa mulch. I had completely forgotten about that! However, we have dogs and I have to to say they have never shown any interest in the Cocoa mulch. We keep them on leash so it wouldn't be an issue anyway.
> 
> They would, as you indicated, have to eat large quantities to reach toxic levels. But if you have any concerns at all regarding your own or your neighbour's pets, don't use it. The shredded variety of cedar mulch as opposed to the chunks would be the next most desirable form of biodegradable mulch that I am aware of, although as I said it will tend to make your soil a little more acidic.


Well said. I think it is important we understand the risks involved, but also to not get carried away with fears. A significant portion of mulch would need to be ingested, and even at that point, it may not have an effect at all. 

Cedar mulch seems to be the most popular mulch these days, and you can get it in a variety of colours (reds, browns, blacks, natural tones etc). The acidity is a problem, but manageable as well.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

The Doug said:


> Which will be great for your rhododendrons & azaleas!


Too true!


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

titans88 said:


> Well said. I think it is important we understand the risks involved, but also to not get carried away with fears. A significant portion of mulch would need to be ingested, and even at that point, it may not have an effect at all.
> 
> Cedar mulch seems to be the most popular mulch these days, and you can get it in a variety of colours (reds, browns, blacks, natural tones etc). The acidity is a problem, but manageable as well.


Yes the colour options of cedar mulch are nice. Where I use it I mix the red and the natural together. For my taste I find the red all on its own tends to look a little too artificial, so by mixing it with the natural it makes for a nice balance of colour.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Just an update.

The Golden elderberry has been a perfect success. :clap: - thanks.

Ground cover is still iffy.

It's okay in parts - others it's getting munched badly by rabbits and also in the sun area it's struggling despite the clement conditions this spring. 

Need something that is sun tolerant and rabbits don't much like. Maybe in the red leaved range for colour. 

Where the ground cover has taken it's worked out nicely.


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