# iPod Touch VS iPhone - debate



## a7mc (Dec 30, 2002)

Well now that the free software unlock is out, I thought it might be worth having a discussion about the iPod Touch and the iPhone. Especially since I have had the pleasure of using both of them. I'll contribute two main comments on the topic:

1- Software Unlock was NOT EASY! I followed 4-5 different sets of instructions, I "unlocked" the phone 10-12 times in a variety of different ways, and it still would not work on Rogers. Although the unlock was apparently successful, it would register "no service" when I had my Rogers Sim in it. Maybe this is just an issue with iPhones bought in the past week or so? Don't know... but I do know that the GUI unlock did not work, nor did the long non-gui method. It took me a LONG time to figure out what was going wrong, and finally found a complicated way of fixing it by ssh'ing into the phone and copying an eep file. Was it worth it? I think so. But I've got really strong tech skills and it took a lot for me to get it going. I don't see the average person getting this to work. Maybe the iPod touch is a better solution for many.

2- The iPod Touch in INCREDIBLY thin... it really amazed me. And it felt really solid despite the thin size. The menu was just as responsive as the iPhone. And yes, the antenna block is just as ugly in person as it is in the pictures.  However, I really don't like the feel of the new iPods. I used to own an iPod photo before it got stolen, and loved the size and rounded design. The newer flat top iPods (the new Touch is almost identical in shape and size to the old iPod Video) just don't feel right in my hand. The iPhone feels a LOT like my old iPod Photo, so I am VERY happy with it. It feels just right in my hands. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

A7


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## psxp (May 23, 2006)

nice comments. 

I decided to go with an iphone as the price is almost the same. I use about 6GB currently for music on my 30GB gen 5 iPod, and dont currently use videos. Too long to convert from divx to mp4 format. Maybe I will put a couple snowbaord videos ones on an Iphone during the ski season. ..

I am going to try the iPhone as the comparison on ilounge.com slammed the iTouch's screen as not being as good as the iPhone. I also used an iPhone and was surprised it was not too bad in size. 

The silver metal backing on theiTouch is a turnoff. I dont want to use a case but I dont want the device scratched up. 

Also, the lack of some apps on the iTouch - ie email etc makes the iPhone more attractive. Now, if it only had more memory


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## AdamS (Jun 7, 2005)

I've been debating this a lot lately, but ultimately I think I'm going with the iPhone.

Apple has done a pretty good job of neutering the touch and reducing a lot of the potential that it had. From all the reviews I've read so far, they all seem to be thinking that Apple deliberately did this in order to leverage the appeal of the iPhone. This doesn't make much sense though for the rest of the world that can't even buy it.

Sure, it's great to have the nice thin size with the touch, but overall I like the design of the iPhone much better. I'm sick of having to deal with the reflective aluminum back surface of the iPod, and really can't understand why Apple chose to bring it back with the touch. My only thought is that it's cheaper than the backing on the iPhone.


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## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

AdamS said:


> I've been debating this a lot lately, but ultimately I think I'm going with the iPhone.
> 
> Apple has done a pretty good job of neutering the touch and reducing a lot of the potential that it had. From all the reviews I've read so far, they all seem to be thinking that Apple deliberately did this in order to leverage the appeal of the iPhone. This doesn't make much sense though for the rest of the world that can't even buy it.


I am ready to buy an iPod touch and was curious as to what you mean about Apple neutering a lot of the potential, any links or care to explain?

thanks


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## a7mc (Dec 30, 2002)

Wonderings... If you read the iLounge article, you'll get what AdamS means. Basically, I'm guessing he means the lack of bluetooth, poor battery performance, no email, and apparently "downgraded" materials. A lot of people seem to think the chrome rim on the iPhone looks nicer, but personally, I like the charcoal grey of the iPod Touch much better.

I just discovered one other neat difference between the two. The iPod Touch does not have the "ringer volume up and down" buttons like on the iPhone, presumably because there's no ringer. However, I just discovered that I can use those volume buttons to control the volume of my music when the iPhone is in iPod mode. That is a HUGE advantage for me, as it means I can adjust the volume while the iPhone is in my pocket without having to look at the screen.

A7


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## psxp (May 23, 2006)

The iphone is smaller than I was expecting. 
Make sure you read the iLounge article. They are pretty good at reviewing products.

One bad thing is noted with the iphone is that for in car use, there may be some noise from the GSM radio coming through to the dashboard. Oh, and with the iPhone I will need to grab a headphone adapter from ebay to use my headphones of choice. Not a big deal..


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## normcorriveau (Dec 6, 2005)

I've been debating this myself. I actually have an iTouch on order but I've been considering canceling the order and getting an iPhone. It still seems risky to me to get and use an iPhone (especially considering what Jobs said yesterday in the UK about stopping hackers). I know you can use an iPhone without unlocking it but how far is Apple going to go to stop the unlocks? Could we be left with a $400 brick unless we keep it at 1.02 and never upgrade iTunes beyond what is available now (which at some point would mean losing the ability to purchase songs on the iTMS)?

I'd be very tempted to unlock if I got one since I'm already on Rogers.

Norm


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## psxp (May 23, 2006)

I wouldnt underestimate the hackers. They will open the iTouch up to run the missing apps, I am sure. I am sure they will get by all the apple firmware stuff.

You may have to wait a few weeks, but it wont be impossible. Look at the PSP - the hacking community has been moding the firmware for that many releases over.


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## GrapeApe (Aug 4, 2004)

I too am having this dilemma right now...to buy an iTouch or an iPhone.

The hacking issues aside, the things that are more pressing to me are the physical differences.

The 'clicker' on the iPhone earbuds has been praised as an ingenious device, yet it is not on the iTouch.

The iPhone also has the physical volume buttons for easy adjustment without having to use the touchsreen.

The iPhone also has Bluetooth and EDGE, though EDGE is less of an issue for me.

The iTouch's shiny metallic backside has also been viewed as a step back for those who don't want to claok their electronics in another half inch of protective casing.

Finally the iPhone only has 8Gb, whereas the iTouch has 16.

I am so torn right now, why can't they just make it easier.


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

No hardware volume control
No way to enter notes, calendar events, etc. (Safari doesn't count, in my book)
Webmail only
Screen possibly not up to snuff (I'd want to see this for myself before stating it more strongly)

...which all means I'm definitely skipping this generation of the Touch. 

Doesn't necessarily mean I'm getting an iPhone, either. All such gadgets fall into the realm of pure luxury for me at the moment, so I'm going to hang onto my cash and maybe get a Classic if my iPod dies. 

There's a good chance the iPhone will be even cheaper by the time it's officially available in Canada, so it could be an option by then, but like a lot of people I just don't want to mess with unofficial mods. Not for legal reasons, but because of the inevitable hassles, including an endless cycle of software updates designed to undo many hacks.


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## Demosthenes X (Sep 23, 2004)

iMatt said:


> No way to enter notes, calendar events, etc. (Safari doesn't count, in my book)
> Webmail only


These sort of comments and complaints make me wonder a little bit - of course the Touch has been "neutered" compared to the iPhone, of course it does not have all the features... it's an iPod, with the really cool ability to also surf the internet. If you want a portable music and video player, then you buy the iPod.

If you want a PDA, then buy the iPhone. But don't lament the lack of features on the iPod - that's why Apple offers the iPhone. And please don't complain that they do not offer the iPhone in Canada - they are working on it.

Perhaps what Apple needs to do is release the iPhone in Canada. Once Rogers has thousands of customers clamoring for them to support it, with the devices in their hands, they'll actually get around to doing it...


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

Demosthenes X said:


> These sort of comments and complaints make me wonder a little bit - of course the Touch has been "neutered" compared to the iPhone, of course it does not have all the features... it's an iPod, with the really cool ability to also surf the internet. If you want a portable music and video player, then you buy the iPod.
> 
> If you want a PDA, then buy the iPhone. But don't lament the lack of features on the iPod - that's why Apple offers the iPhone.


You make a good point, and I do understand the need to differentiate the two products, but the Touch is hobbled just a little too much for my liking.

No camera, no microphone, no speaker, no Edge, no bluetooth, no weather/stock/map etc. widgets -- all fine, and all differentiation based on hardware and networking. I could live with webmail-only, so I'll agree that's a petty gripe. 

But including a read-only calendar app and omitting a simple text editor seems just silly. If they don't want people complaining about the PDA it almost is, they should have left out the calendar altogether, IMO. 

And omitting a hardware volume control from a touchscreen media player seems more like a bad oversight than a defensible form of differentiation.


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## An Old Soul (Apr 24, 2006)

Hands down the iPhone. I can't believe there's even debate. For the price, it's well worth the extra $$ for the added features and style of the iPhone. The only question, regarding the iPod aspect, is disk space. But even at 16GB, its not enough for me to have my whole library.

I decided to keep my 60GB iPod Photo which is in great condition as my store-all (which usually plays in my car) and just put my favs on the iPhone.

I've got 72 albums, hundreds of photos synced, 3rd party apps and still 2.5GB of space left.

Of course, it's easier to get your hands on a touch. But the forbidden iPhone in Canada makes having one all the sweeter!


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## psxp (May 23, 2006)

An Old Soul said:


> I've got 72 albums, hundreds of photos synced, 3rd party apps and still 2.5GB of space left.
> 
> Of course, it's easier to get your hands on a touch. But the forbidden iPhone in Canada makes having one all the sweeter!


Is that all on your iPhone??? sweet...

yeah, the other neat thing is being one of the few canadians with an Iphone..


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## Demosthenes X (Sep 23, 2004)

iMatt said:


> But including a read-only calendar app and omitting a simple text editor seems just silly. If they don't want people complaining about the PDA it almost is, they should have left out the calendar altogether, IMO.
> 
> And omitting a hardware volume control from a touchscreen media player seems more like a bad oversight than a defensible form of differentiation.


The second point we're agreed on - from what I hear, you cannot use the touch screen with gloves on. So on a cold day, adjusting volume and songs is going to be a major pain.

A text editor I can live without, but a read-only calendar app, while useful, seems silly. It would be very easy, and make it infinitely more useful, to add in the ability to input data and make the Touch a VERY desirable unit for any college student, or any business exec who does not need email/phone capability.

On the plus side, that is something that can be fixed by a simple software update if Apple deems it appropriate. The lack of tactile buttons is a more grievous, and more difficult to correct, error.

Over all, though, I think I agree with Old Soul: the iPhone offers far greater flexibility for a modest price increase. And if one is willing to wait, I've little doubt we will see a 16GB iPhone in the future.


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## tardis67 (Aug 24, 2006)

I had ordered an iPod Touch the moment is was annouced. I got caught in the incorrect information being posted on Apple.ca that I could enter Calendar events on the device. They changed the website on Sep 10 to remove that feature.

I cancelled my order shortly after. I've accepted that I'll just wait for the iPhone to get my PDA functionality.

Sorry Apple, you just lost $449.


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

Demosthenes X said:


> Over all, though, I think I agree with Old Soul: the iPhone offers far greater flexibility for a modest price increase.


But that's the hitch, isn't it? If you're like me and you have a cheap voice plan for your cell, and like it that way, an iPhone would represent a fairly significant added monthly cost. 

I have other reasons for not wanting an iPhone, so in my case at least including a bit more software on the Touch isn't going to lose them an iPhone sale.

If it turns out to be easy to hack the Touch to allow entry of notes and calendar events, and the hacks aren't wiped out with each software update, I might reconsider. But I'm not optimistic: with its new handheld devices, Apple really seems keen on going back to its old closed-system ways.


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## Demosthenes X (Sep 23, 2004)

The obvious solution would seem to be to get a voice-only plan on the iPhone, which will be exactly what you are paying now... once the iPhone is officially released Rogers might make you pay for a data plan with it, but with the software unlock you can put any Rogers sim into it...


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## fyrefly (Apr 16, 2005)

iMatt said:


> There's a good chance the iPhone will be even cheaper by the time it's officially available in Canada


I think you mean *if* it's ever officially available in Canada. 'Cause at this rate, Rwanda's gonna get an iPhone before Rogers releases it's choke-hold on expensive data rates and monthly plans.


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## AdamS (Jun 7, 2005)

I think the above posters pretty much summed up what I meant when I said they 'neutered' the touch. There's some clear deliberate attempts by Apple to make it less functional than the iPhone, just as the iLounge review mentions.

While I agree with this from the standpoint of differentiating the product lines, I don't agree with Apple spending development effort on things like removing the calendar entry feature just for the sake of limiting functionality in a product.

And I won't support a company's product that was designed with such intentional (software and hardware) limitations.

The iPhone will forever be hacked. What a lot of you are forgetting is that you have to manually update the software on your iPhone for it to pull in the software update. The fact that it's already been hacked and unlocked at the current version of the firmware means that, at the very least, we'll have iPhones running the 1.0 software unlocked for as long as we want.

Sure, you're likely going to have jump through some hoops to get it working in the coming software updates, but they'll likely be minimal since there is a *massive* hacking community behind making sure that this product stays open, unofficially anyway.


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

Demosthenes X said:


> The obvious solution would seem to be to get a voice-only plan on the iPhone, which will be exactly what you are paying now... once the iPhone is officially released Rogers might make you pay for a data plan with it, but with the software unlock you can put any Rogers sim into it...


As I said, I have other reasons, mainly that I'm not sold on the concept of folding entertainment functions into a primarily business-oriented tool with a relatively short useful life. With a _slightly_ more functional Touch, we'd have a little business functionality in an entertainment device, and that's a mix I find more appealing.

I do think, however, that these issues will sort themselves out over the next couple of years. There will eventually be a more diverse lineup of iPhones, assuming Apple's phone gambit succeeds (and it looks like it will).


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

fyrefly said:


> I think you mean *if* it's ever officially available in Canada. 'Cause at this rate, Rwanda's gonna get an iPhone before Rogers releases it's choke-hold on expensive data rates and monthly plans.


It will eventually become available. Remember how long it took for the iTunes store to get here? How some iPod launches were US-only for several months? Things may be slightly more complicated this time, but I do believe they'll get something worked out eventually, even if it takes another year.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

This thread is hilarious. I guess you guys all buy the most expensive model of a car because the cheaper versions are crippled? Most base cars have the wiring for high end stereos, bluetooth, etc but they are not enabled. It's just more economic to make one standard design and then not activate various features than to add them in one by one. Ditto for computers....

The Touch is not crippled. It could have more features and likely will. Some of those features are likely to be added over time via official software updates (just like the iPhone) or by hacks. In Canada, it makes sense to buy an iPhone since its easy to find. It would be good if there was a range of features you could activate on the Touch and priced accordingly - like car washes.... 

But what is the point in griping? Each decision to buy is going to be personal and dependent on a bunch of factors that are not equivalent. Perhaps people think that by complaining on an on-line forum that Apple will magically "do the right thing" and add some little feature or other. They will. Next year. But not because of these posts. Just don't get run over by a bus in the meantime.


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## Pavmentsurfer (Jan 4, 2006)

For someone like me, who already has a cell on a different network, and has to keep it that way for business reasons, it seems silly to buy an Iphone and not use the phone part. Shouldent the touch be cheaper than the phone since it doesnt have a phone built in? I was seriously considering selling my Ipod video and buying a touch, but that was assuming it had all the features of the Iphone. If it doesnt, and further, it doesnt have simple user friendly features like a hardware volume control I think ill stick to my video. I use my Ipod at work all the time (construction) I play it through my Makita Jobsite Radio using an FM transmitter so having to touch the screen with dirty hands to adjust the volume would certainly wreck the screen.
Sounds like ill wait till something else comes along.

Pavmentsurfer


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## MacGYVER (Apr 15, 2005)

Have any of you any marketing experience? Taken a marketing course? Know anything about marketing? Run a company as large as Apple? Anyone? 

Apple wanted to get into the cellphone business, so they did by introducing the iPhone. Apple wanted to use some of that technology and incorporate it into the next generation of iPods, welcome the iPod Touch. 

Have any of you not seen how Apple does things over the years when they introduce a brand new gadget? I like to call it "testing the waters" syndrome. You build it, add a little of this and that and see how the market does with it. Yeah you're going to get criticism and you're going to get praises. Companies like Apple want people to criticize their products or services so Apple knows what direction they could/should go for future add ons or upgrades or changes etc. Apple is one of the few companies in the technology sector that plays these risks every time they come out with a new product, service or software. Everyone else is kind of boring.

Point is, Apple knows how to market their products, they know what they're doing, and nobody is perfect, but we haven't seen or heard what Apple has up its sleeve for "other" apps on the iPod Touch. The most important thing to Apple is, the iPod Touch is an iPod, everything else is kind of a bonus at the moment. Key term being at the moment. Believe me, the iPod Touch will evolve into something so much cooler than it is right now, in a very short time over the next year. Apple wants to make sure they are heading in the right direction and they will know that through their customers via customer feedback.


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

used to be jwoodget said:


> The Touch is not crippled.



Come now. Most of the iPhone/iPod Touch differences are perfectly logical and understandable differentiators, and adding things like bluetooth would involve a hardware cost, but one or two differences are vaguely reminiscent of the days when Apple "didn't cripple" its iMacs and iBooks by rewriting firmware to disable built-in video card features. 

Which is not to say Apple isn't within its rights to do that, or even that it's the wrong thing for Apple to do for its bottom line. But clearly the device lacks features that could be added for no cost, and that counts as "crippled" in my book.

Will discussing, complaining, etc. change anything? Probably not. Depends how much noise customers make. Depends how well they sell as they are. Anyway, the goal may not be to change anything, but simply to debate the pros and cons of the two devices.


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## GrapeApe (Aug 4, 2004)

used to be jwoodget said:


> This thread is hilarious. I guess you guys all buy the most expensive model of a car because the cheaper versions are crippled? Most base cars have the wiring for high end stereos, bluetooth, etc but they are not enabled. It's just more economic to make one standard design and then not activate various features than to add them in one by one. Ditto for computers....
> 
> The Touch is not crippled. It could have more features and likely will. Some of those features are likely to be added over time via official software updates (just like the iPhone) or by hacks. In Canada, it makes sense to buy an iPhone since its easy to find. It would be good if there was a range of features you could activate on the Touch and priced accordingly - like car washes....
> 
> But what is the point in griping? Each decision to buy is going to be personal and dependent on a bunch of factors that are not equivalent. Perhaps people think that by complaining on an on-line forum that Apple will magically "do the right thing" and add some little feature or other. They will. Next year. But not because of these posts. Just don't get run over by a bus in the meantime.


As I said earlier, disabling or not including hardware features, 100% justifiable, no issue there.

Not including certain software (Mail, Google Maps, etc.), less understandable, but I can see where Apple is coming from.

Crippling existing apps, not cool, not in any way shape or form. Companies like Microsoft have gotten slammed for this for years, it would be hypocritical not to hold Apple to the same standard, or perhaps even a higher one.


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## AdamS (Jun 7, 2005)

MacGYVER said:


> Have any of you any marketing experience? Taken a marketing course? Know anything about marketing? Run a company as large as Apple? Anyone?


That's totally irrelevant to this thread and to this discussion. We're customers of the company (well, most of us) and so ultimately, it doesn't matter what marketers think; If there's something that we don't like about a product, we're not going to buy it, marketing be damned.

You don't need marketing education in order to make an informed purchasing decision. Furthermore, don't feel the need to ruthlessly defend Apple 'just cause'. They're a corporation, and like all corporations, they make mistakes and blunders. Not everything they do is perfect.


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## used to be jwoodget (Aug 22, 2002)

It would be crippled if it wasn't able to do what it was claimed to be able to do. Instead, it is "positioned" with a selection of features. I totally agree it would be much better to be able to make changes to iCal, etc. but the "value proposition" of the Touch is calculated to find a spot in the marketplace that makes some modicum of sense to both Apple and consumers. It's a phenomenal iPod with extras. It will be better in the future. They may activate features on existing units in the future or not. Buy it or not. No point complaining.


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## Demosthenes X (Sep 23, 2004)

iMatt said:


> Which is not to say Apple isn't within its rights to do that, or even that it's the wrong thing for Apple to do for its bottom line. But clearly the device lacks features that could be added for no cost, and that counts as "crippled" in my book.


It is only crippled if you insist on comparing it to the iPhone, which is a silly comparison to begin with because the iPhone is a completely different device. The fact they share some technology is irrelevant - Lamborghinis share some technology with Volkswagons, and I don't think anyone considers a VW a crippled Lamborghini.

The difference in features exists to differentiate the products: one is a phone/PDA, and so has all the added features and benefits thereof. The other is a media player, which happens to have internet ability. If Apple had simply yanked the phone and Bluetooth out of the iPhone, iPhone sales would suffer. And since their goal is to sell iPhones, it would seem a rather silly move, I think.

You should be comparing the iPod Touch to the iPod Classic, since they're actually in the same product line. And taken in that context, the Touch is the most powerful iPod yet.


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

used to be jwoodget said:


> It would be crippled if it wasn't able to do what it was claimed to be able to do. Instead, it is "positioned" with a selection of features.


Just semantics, I guess, but I don't think I'm alone in understanding "crippled" to mean its functionality has been artificially limited -- not by the omission of hardware, but by the scaling back of things that could otherwise be included at no cost. Going to the effort to make a special read-only Calendar fits, and it's not mutually exclusive with "positioning."



Demosthenes X said:


> You should be comparing the iPod Touch to the iPod Classic, since they're actually in the same product line. And taken in that context, the Touch is the most powerful iPod yet.


To suggest that it doesn't invite comparison to the iPhone is mind-boggling, and Apple itself will tell you they're part of the same product line: the iPhone is advertised as "a widescreen iPod." Apple doesn't say it _includes_ an iPod as an add-on, but that it _is_ one. 

The features in question are not part of the traditional iPod feature set, but a subset of the iPhone's other, non-iPod features. Why include any of those at all? Wouldn't the Touch still be great without Wi-Fi and Safari? 

If Apple included Safari but limited it to a tool for signing on to WiFi networks so you could buy the Starbucks playlist, would you guys defend Apple because "hey, that's just positioning"?


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## Demosthenes X (Sep 23, 2004)

Apple considers the iPhone a phone - yes, it includes an iPod. But when they say "it's an iPod, it's a phone" etc., that's marketing.

The device is a phone/PDA. If you want more proof on how Apple considers it, take a look at Apple USA's website: iPod and iPhone are separate parts of the site.

The reason the Touch invites comparison to the iPhone is because they look similar, and use much of the same base technology. That does not, however, make it a good comparison. You are still comparing an mp3 player to a PDA - Apples to Oranges, as it were.

All of the features of the iPod were not a part of the traditional feature set when it was released. But I don't hear people comparing the iPod Video to their TV set because it could play videos. The point of an update is just that - to update the "traditional feature set". If you remain with the traditional in the technology game, you will be out of business very quickly.

Yes, the iPod Touch has some neat features gleaned from the iPhone. But one is still a music player primarily, and the other is still a PDA. Deriding the Touch because it lacks some of the features of the iPhone is just silly: it's a poor comparison, and with a little bit of business sense, one can see why Apple did it.

As for Wi-Fi - yes, the Touch would be very cool without. But Apple wanted its users to have the ability to download a song on the go, which I for one consider very cool.  And they would have had a massive backlash if they'd included WiFi connectivity but not Safari.

Simply put, if you want the feature set of the iPhone, buy the iPhone. If you want a really cool iPod, buy the iPod Touch.


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

Demosthenes X said:


> Deriding the Touch because it lacks some of the features of the iPhone is just silly: it's a poor comparison, and with a little bit of business sense, one can see why Apple did it.


Once again: I completely understand Apple's need for distinct feature sets for positioning purposes; I am simply questioning some of the specific choices they've made. We've already established that you agree there are lines not to be crossed (as you recognize that WiFi + hobbled or absent Safari = outcry), we're just debating the position of the line.

As for whether the comparison is silly, I think you're buying into an arbitrary line drawn for marketing purposes (which doesn't by itself mean it's good business sense). Is it a PDA? Is it a media player? *Both* of these products blur the lines, big time -- including the Touch with its current feature set. By clinging to a hard division between those categories, you arbitrarily sweep away comparisons that in reality make plenty of sense. Even Apple, when it engages in "just marketing", is happy to blur the lines.

Who really, truly cares if adding a couple more data-entry features would push the Touch over some arbitrary line into PDA-land? (Arguably, it's already there anyway.) Why on earth should that category change matter to anyone, even marketing experts? It would still be plenty differentiated from the iPhone, which I guarantee is what _really_ matters to Apple.

Do you seriously think a read/write Calendar and the Notes app would steer many people from iPhone to iPod touch? I find it very hard to believe that it would. Certainly no more than WiFi and Safari, which appear to be features that have been able to sell some iPhones on their own.

In terms of my personal buying decision, the effect of these choices is not to drive me to buy an iPhone (I repeat: I currently have *zero* interest in combining phone and entertainment features, nor in using a grey market product that must be hacked), but to keep me on the sidelines for at least one more generation of both iPod Touch and iPhone. 

At this point we have no idea how many people have reached a similar conclusion. I guess the evolution (or lack of it) of the products' respective feature sets will provide an answer of sorts.

In a nutshell: we all agree that differentiation is necessary, but I believe some of the feature choices are illogical and self-defeating, since the platform is clearly capable of taking on some useful additional features at no cost and _without threatening the iPhone_.


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## spiralgirl (Mar 8, 2007)

This is a great thread and will read the rest tomorrow. I too am wondering about this which one to get. Where are people on this site getting the iPhone? In the States? Also I hear there is an unlock and a cheap plan on Rogers. This was the main reason I didn't think I could get the iPhone was the high monthly fees.

Thanks for the original poster who started this thread.


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## Demosthenes X (Sep 23, 2004)

I thought I said that a read-only calender app was just silly - if they're going to put the calender in, they may as well make it writeable. I still do not see the iPhone and Touch as being a particularly good comparison, because I do not imagine people walking into an Apple store and actually deciding between the two. They are similar, but they are also different enough I doubt many people cross shop them. Although I suppose people who want an iPhone for its PDA features and not the phone might...


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## iMatt (Dec 3, 2004)

Demosthenes X said:


> I thought I said that a read-only calender app was just silly - if they're going to put the calender in, they may as well make it writeable.


Sorry, I missed that. 

Interestingly, it turns out that Apple originally announced a read/write Calendar for the Touch, then quietly dropped it. And it turns out that you _can_ add/update contacts on the Touch. I hope I'm not alone in finding that part just plain ass-backwards.



> I still do not see the iPhone and Touch as being a particularly good comparison, because I do not imagine people walking into an Apple store and actually deciding between the two. They are similar, but they are also different enough I doubt many people cross shop them. Although I suppose people who want an iPhone for its PDA features and not the phone might...


I believe there are many more people than you realize who would appreciate those PDA features but don't want the phone and related features. 

To be relevant to a buying decision, the comparison to the iPhone doesn't need to be "should I buy an iPhone or a touch" but simply "the iPhone shows that the Touch could easily have feature X at no additional cost, but it's been left out, and that makes the Touch a less interesting product." 

Apparently that conclusion is exactly the one Apple wants you to reach, as long as you take the next step and decide to buy an iPhone if any particular missing feature is important to you. The risk for Apple is that some of us will wind up with neither. The question is how many.

There are a few here, but they might just be a vocal minority. (Google cache of Apple support forums thread.)

And yes, I've submitted my feedback to Apple on this.


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## GrapeApe (Aug 4, 2004)

Everyone keeps saying "just buy an iPhone", I don't get that logic.

The iPhone is not available to more than 95% of the world's population without some form of hack which could render the phone useless, void the warranty and prevent you from receiving firmware upgrades.

Apple needs to realize that for the huge percentage of potential buyers who have no to access to the iPhone, the iTouch seemed like a far more attractive option before we found out how dumbed-down it really was.

I would buy an iPhone tomorrow, at the original launch price, if it was launched on Rogers network with an unlimited data plan, but since that it not likely going to happen for several months, the iTouch was at one point an attractive alternative, but not so much anymore.


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## psxp (May 23, 2006)

I just got an iPhone. The "ipod" side of things are great!!! fantastic!
The phone/email side.. not so good. You cant even add attachments or save attachments from emails. :-( not very smart.. 

The web browser is nice.. but the same thing.. you cant save pictures to the phone.

B.


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## Visnaut (Jul 22, 2004)

*iPod touch Inconsistencies*

Even if you believe that the lack of Notes or editable Calendar is merely "positioning" the device, riddle me this:

Why should one be able to edit and add contacts? That's clearly PDA functionality that never existed before on an iPod. And it's terribly inconsistent with the fact that the Calendar is read-only.

Apple should have made Contacts, Calendar, and included Notes on the iPod touch either as all editable or all read-only.

If they had made them all read-only, people generally would have understood that the iPods have never had input capabilities, and even Notes was something the last few generations of iPods have had. Never mind the fact that the touchscreen allows for perfectly normal input...

But they didn't. And if they had made them all editable, no one would be complaining that it's too much like an iPhone. In fact, reviews and sales would have been much better. Instead we got a mix of editable, non-editable, and removed features...

So let's forget the iPhone for a second, and compare the _non-music playing software differences_ of the iPod touch to the previous iPods (and the existing classic/nano):

*Kept 2 features:* Calendar (read-only), Clock
*Improved 1 feature:* Contacts (now editable)
*Removed 2 Features:* Notes, Games (even the built-in ones)

It doesn't even have the music search capabilities that even the nano is capable of. They would be much easier to use on the touch, too, with the on-screen keyboard instead of the decoder-ring style input of the click wheel iPods. And the irony here is that you can search for music on the iTunes store, but not on your own iPod...

Don't get me wrong, the device has several big pluses, like the iTunes Store and Safari. Those are great and I'm sure many people will be, and should be, happy with purchasing an iPod touch. My full respect to them.

But to me, even not comparing it to the iPhone, the feature set of the iPod touch leaves much to be desired, and is inconsistent in software capabilities with itself and its iPod progenitors and contemporaries.

The iPhone is more appealing to me, not because of the reasons above, but simply because I'm looking for a different class of device. I can accept that it doesn't have all of the features of an iPod, because it's not an iPod! Plus, Apple has been more openly committed to improving the iPhone through software updates, whereas they made no mention of that for the iPod touch. And given their history with the iPods, I don't expect them to improve the functionality of the iPod touch _at all_ except for bug fixes.


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## GrapeApe (Aug 4, 2004)

Great point, the inconsistancy is what is so annoying.

It is almost like they didn't really put a lot of thought into it, the software I mean, because it almost seems like the included software was an afterthought, as is evidenced by the original marketing information that suggested the calendar was editable which was later retricted.


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## emalen (Oct 10, 2004)

My only reason for getting the iPhone is that I really wanted to simply carry one device around. Everyday I walk around with an iPod and Phone. Now i only have to worry about the iPhone!

That said, if I hadn't gotten the iPhone unlocked, I definitely would pick up a TOUCH. It's a really cool device, and I would have loved the ability to get the WiFi store on my Phone... but I'm not about to mess around with my unlock at this point.


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## VELL (Sep 30, 2007)

What about size???

Iphone is much bigger than Itouch?


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## a7mc (Dec 30, 2002)

Size was part of my original post on this subject. The iPhone is just barely taller than the Touch, and a little bit thicker. BUT, in my hand, the iPhone "feels" better. The Touch has a somewhat "flat" front with hard edges, whereas the iPhone has rounded corners all around. I find the iPhone "feels" smaller in my hand because of the rounded corners.

A7


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## Veej (Feb 16, 2006)

As some have already said it, the iP is a 2 in 1 device and yes it feels better in the hand, basically you have a iPod touch with 10plus stars


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## Fink-Nottle (Feb 25, 2001)

*Edit Calendar Functionality coming to iPod Touch...*

Not confirmed but supposedly from the mouth of Steve Jobs. If they add a Notes application too then I'm set... webmail will suffice for e-mail.


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## ps1 (Jun 24, 2006)

All this talk about crippled makes my head spin. The fact is this is a different device and most likely the replacement for the Classic as soon as we see NAND prices for larger modules drop to reasonable levels (at the rate we've been going in 2007 it could be about this time next year - basically 50% drops at retail).
To save space here are my thoughts after two weeks of iPod touch ownership:
Thoughtful Wheaten: iPod touch Thoughts & The Future!


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## free ipod touch (Oct 10, 2007)

It would be great if the iPod Touch had the eBook feature to view PDF files. I can't wait till that is hacked!


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