# The Education Thread



## screature (May 14, 2007)

In the "Deep Thoughts" thread the issue of education and who pays for what etc., etc. came up. it was interesting, a lot of hyperbole and not much fact/data. But it is indeed a very, very important subject. I thought it warranted its own thread to fully discuss the matter without disrupting the "Deep Thoughts" thread needlessly.

So for those who are game, let's have at 'er.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

A fine idea for a thread, Steve. I have been a teacher, in one capacity or the next, at various age/grade levels, for 40 years. I still agree with Einstein. Paix, mon ami.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

30 years for me as a teacher, Steve. I think it's a fine idea to start a new thread devoted to education, though I can also guess what will happen when the usual suspects arrive. 


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Some etymology for the word "education," which appears to have a number of possible roots.



> Western educationists have discovered few Latin words through investigation. According to them, the English word 'Education' has been derived from Latin words "educare", "educere", "educatum", "E+duco", "educatus", "educatio".
> 
> 1) 'Educate' - The term education has been derived from the Latin word 'educare'. The term 'educare' means 'to bring up', 'to rise', and 'to nourish'. The child has to bring up like a plant in the garden by the teacher. His potentialities should be developed with proper care and nourishment.
> 
> ...


http://eduhutch.blogspot.ca/2014/11/etymological-meaning-of-education.html


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Freddie_Biff said:


> 30 years for me as a teacher, Steve. I think it's a fine idea to start a new thread devoted to education, though I can also guess what will happen when the usual suspects arrive.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Wow. That is 70 years between us ............ and you are still going full-time and I am still teaching part-time. Let's see if we can reach 100 years. Paix, mon ami.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Freddie_Biff said:


> 30 years for me as a teacher, Steve. I think it's a fine idea to start a new thread devoted to education, though I can also guess what will happen when the usual suspects arrive.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Be positive, mon ami. There is no reason to drown this thread in negative postings. We shall see. Paix.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Dr.G. said:


> Be positive, mon ami. There is no reason to drown this thread in negative postings. We shall see. Paix.



Agreed. But remember the wise words of Dr. Macgraw: the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Dr.G. said:


> Be positive, mon ami. There is no reason to drown this thread in negative postings. We shall see. Paix.


Too late, Dr.G. He's already started...


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

FeXL said:


> Too late, Dr.G. He's already started...


Man, I was going to leave this thread to itself until he started in.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Freddie_Biff said:


> Agreed. But remember the wise words of Dr. Macgraw: the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour.


Sometimes this is true. Still, I like to give people the opportunity to make positive comments, even if they are critical comments, in all threads. It is when the comments get personal, as in "You taught 40 years????? What a dope to stick it out that long." So, we shall see who contributes to this thread and how their contributions advance the discussion about education. Paix, mon ami.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Years and years ago when I was in college, we were taught that when you were at work you should never talk about politics, religion and sex......to this list one could easily add education. It is a topic everyone seems to have opinions on. But, regardless of your opinion, education has always come down to two fundamental issues......Implementing Ryerson's " hidden agenda" and someone today determines what someone else in the future will need to know.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Somewhat true, Rp. Still, effective teachers help students learn how to think and not what to think. Still, I agree that it is hard to buck the trend of centralized curricular. Paix, mon ami.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I would say that imbuing students with a deliberately narrow range of leftist ideology now passes for "teaching students to think."


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Macfury said:


> I would say that imbuing students with a deliberately narrow range of leftist ideology now passes for "teaching students to think."


I would make that any ideology. The student needs to develop the tools to chose his own vision. Anything else is essentially doing the homework for the student.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

eMacMan said:


> I would make that any ideology. The student needs to develop the tools to chose his own vision. Anything else is essentially doing the homework for the student.


However, today it's leftist.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Macfury said:


> I would say that imbuing students with a deliberately narrow range of leftist ideology now passes for "teaching students to think."


Who does that, Macfury? I know I never did and I taught social studies. You can't generalize like that and expect it to be accepted as the truth. Paix, mon ami.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

eMacMan said:


> I would make that any ideology. The student needs to develop the tools to chose his own vision. Anything else is essentially doing the homework for the student.


Very good point, Bob. This enables each student to have the means to learn on his or her own in the future, and to be able to become critical thinkers. Paix, mon ami.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Macfury said:


> However, today it's leftist.


You say tomato, I say potato ............. Just because you say something does not necessarily make it true. Paix, mon ami.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIYS9EQWkXg[/ame]


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Dr.G. said:


> Who does that, Macfury? I know I never did and I taught social studies. You can't generalize like that and expect it to be accepted as the truth. Paix, mon ami.


I have watched it repeatedly in the Toronto area. Students are graded poorly if they interpret a novel outside of the approved ideology, for example. All history is taught through a leftist lens.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> I would say that imbuing students with a deliberately narrow range of leftist ideology now passes for "teaching students to think."


The issue that I see is not ideology, I mean we all live one whether we recognise it or not, but being able to think about issues. Unfortunately from lower grades to high school students are essentially told to " listen" and when they enter college or university are expected to think......and it is a brave teacher who challenges that model. We also need to focus on core competencies...these will never change and provide a framework from which students can develop critical thinking skills to be used their entire life.


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## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

Macfury said:


> I have watched it repeatedly in the Toronto area. Students are graded poorly if they interpret a novel outside of the approved ideology, for example. All history is taught through a leftist lens.


It certainly seems to be true from what I have watched happening on Universities (specifically in the States). Probably not true everywhere but it seems it has become the mainstream norm. Having a differing opinion then Antifa or any social justice group gets you labeled a bigot, fascist, nazi, racists, etc. Schools have shut down events, or made strong efforts to shut events down because they disagree with the speaker. School should be a place to explore ideas and have them challenged, instead it appears to have become a place you must conform to the approved ideals of the school. I would be happy to be dead wrong on this bleak view of schools today.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I already experienced this when I was in university decades ago. Professors announcing that they would fail anyone who mentioned a libertarian theme in their papers. Economics professors who deliberately went off curriculum to flog Marxist economic theory that was not part of the textbook and would not be part of the final exam--leaving students unable to complete parts of the group exam that were on curriculum. The latest examples I have seen are in high school, where students grimly state that they have to stay on political message or they will be penalized.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Macfury said:


> I have watched it repeatedly in the Toronto area. Students are graded poorly if they interpret a novel outside of the approved ideology, for example. All history is taught through a leftist lens.




Paranoid much? That is certainly not true at any school I've worked in. Teachers as a whole may lean to the left, but the curricula is fairly objective.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

The curriculum may be objective, but many of the teachers are not. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Paranoid much? That is certainly not true at any school I've worked in. Teachers as a whole may lean to the left, but the curricula is fairly objective.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Macfury said:


> I have watched it repeatedly in the Toronto area. Students are graded poorly if they interpret a novel outside of the approved ideology, for example. All history is taught through a leftist lens.


Well, as most researchers would tell you is that anecdotal observations are important, but they should not be utilized to make broad generalizations.

"All history is taught through a leftist lens." Once again, this is your opinion, and just saying it does not make it so. Paix, mon ami.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"School should be a place to explore ideas and have them challenged, instead it appears to have become a place you must conform to the approved ideals of the school. I would be happy to be dead wrong on this bleak view of schools today." Very good point, Wonderings. Personally, I was shocked when some at Berkley, the university that helped to foster the "free speech movement" back in the 60s, were so closed that they prevented a speaker from speaking. 

I too hope that you and I are both wrong re this "bleak view" that is trending in some schools. Hard to think that there were 18-21 year olds, the age of most university students today, who stormed the beaches at Normandy ........ and yet now they need "safe places" to calm down when they hear something disturbing. Paix, mon ami.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Macfury said:


> I already experienced this when I was in university decades ago. Professors announcing that they would fail anyone who mentioned a libertarian theme in their papers. Economics professors who deliberately went off curriculum to flog Marxist economic theory that was not part of the textbook and would not be part of the final exam--leaving students unable to complete parts of the group exam that were on curriculum. The latest examples I have seen are in high school, where students grimly state that they have to stay on political message or they will be penalized.


Wow. Now that is taking "academic freedom" to a dangerous extreme. Sadly, I too had profs who did not want to hear any "anti Vietnam war" discussions.

Still, neither you nor I should draw overall conclusions based on these personal experiences.

I recall some of my students shocked when I let them talk about the use of synthetic phonics. I said that even though I advocated different approaches, I felt that if a student could learn to read this way, then it was the proper approach to utilize. I actually liked it when students disagreed with me and my views as to literacy education, rather than just have them try to "spit back" what I was saying, whether they believed in it or not.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Macfury said:


> The curriculum may be objective, but many of the teachers are not.


True. Some teachers lean towards the left .......... others to the right ........ and some have no concern over one's leanings. This is why it is important to experience teachers with all points of views.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

It makes it so at the three schools with which I have direct experience and at dozens of schools where others I know have direct experience.



Dr.G. said:


> Well, as most researchers would tell you is that anecdotal observations are important, but they should not be utilized to make broad generalizations.
> 
> "All history is taught through a leftist lens." Once again, this is your opinion, and just saying it does not make it so. Paix, mon ami.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

There are no right-leaners at the high school with which I am most familiar. One centrist. 



Dr.G. said:


> True. Some teachers lean towards the left .......... others to the right ........ and some have no concern over one's leanings. This is why it is important to experience teachers with all points of views.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Dr.G. said:


> Well, as most researchers would tell you is that anecdotal observations are important, but they should not be utilized to make broad generalizations.


Dr. G., you can't be this naive.

Look around you. Read news sources other than those you are comfortable with. Throughout the US the left has almost completely taken over not only primary & secondary schools, but especially, post-secondary. And, not only instructors but students, as well.

Just a few, non-isolated examples currently in the media: Mizzou, Berkely, Evergreen.

Why do you think there are now "safe spaces" where the horror of free speech is not heard & rooms where progressive snowflakes can "heal" with kittens, puppies & hot chocolate, among other things?

And, just because you say these things are not happening doen't mean they aren't. To wit:

Question: What is the difference between Christian seminaries and American universities?



> The left has taken over universities as well as most high schools, and like almost everything the left has influenced — education, religion, the arts and the economies of most countries — this influence has been destructive.
> 
> ...
> 
> Entire books have been written providing hundreds of examples of left-wing indoctrination having replaced education in American universities. FAU is just the latest example.


Left-wing thinking still prevails in schools 



> Michael Gove is right. My time studying History at school and university was dominated by Left-wing thinking.
> 
> Consciously or subconsciously, the educational elite indoctrinates a generation of young people.
> 
> ...


Oh! What a tangled progressive web we weave . . .



> No one wishes to discuss candidly that universities are no longer free bastions of inquiry but are descending into would-be boot camps to train progressive shock troops.


Now, some will attack the sources above. Frankly, I could care less. How about discussing the argument?

Even something as simple & understandable as a tribute to victims of 9/11 is seen as an affront. WTF?

College Students Say Remembering 9/11 Is Offensive to Muslims



> The everything-is-offensive brand of campus activism has struck a new low: Students at the University of Minnesota killed a proposed moment of silence for 9/11 victims due to concerns—insulting, childish concerns—that Muslim students would be offended.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Dr.G. said:


> This is why it is important to experience teachers with all points of views.


So, in an area dominated by leftist thinking, exactly where does one find teachers "with all points of view"? Easier said than done. It's not like there a lot of choice.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Free?! 

Free tuition for 185,000 post-secondary students in Ontario: minister



> Ontario's minister responsible for post-secondary education says 185,000 students have received free tuition this year under a new government program.
> Advanced Education Minister Deb Matthews announced the figures Monday, which equal more than a third of all full-time college and university students in Ontario.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

The notion of a degree is becoming pretty cheap coin these days. Offering free tuition may allow more students to partake, but it will cheapen the value of it even more. If everybody has a degree, then only what they learned will matter--this will become the new criterion for hiring.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Macfury said:


> If everybody has a degree, then only what they learned will matter--this will become the new criterion for hiring.


I'm not convinced. You heard about the massive security breach at Equifax a few days back? The Chief Security Officer at Equifax? Her education consisted of a BA & MFA in _musical composition_.

Know what this looks like to me? Just another occurrence of hiring the best minority, rather than someone who was actually qualified for the job.

There is nothing to convince me that this type of bogus hiring practice will cease any time in the near future.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

It's hard to get past hiring quotas. I meant that if everybody has a degree, then there will be other criteria for hiring.



FeXL said:


> I'm not convinced. You heard about the massive security breach at Equifax a few days back? The Chief Security Officer at Equifax? Her education consisted of a BA & MFA in _musical composition_.
> 
> Know what this looks like to me? Just another occurrence of hiring the best minority, rather than someone who was actually qualified for the job.
> 
> There is nothing to convince me that this type of bogus hiring practice will cease any time in the near future.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Macfury said:


> It makes it so at the three schools with which I have direct experience and at dozens of schools where others I know have direct experience.





Macfury said:


> There are no right-leaners at the high school with which I am most familiar. One centrist.


Well, you would have to have observed and interviewed each of these teachers for this statement to be valid.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Macfury said:


> The notion of a degree is becoming pretty cheap coin these days. Offering free tuition may allow more students to partake, but it will cheapen the value of it even more. If everybody has a degree, then only what they learned will matter--this will become the new criterion for hiring.


Actually, we agree here. I am in favor of free tuition for qualified students. However, it is coming to the point where just like a high school diploma was the necessary basic requirement for job advancement, then it became a BA/BS/B.Ed/BSW, etc., now a master's degree is the basic requirement. In some areas, not even a doctorate is enough. When I got my doctorate from the Univ. of Georgia in literacy education, it was one of the, if not THE top university in this area (according to the International Reading Assoc.), I still had to demonstrate that I could effectively teach certain courses and be the director for Memorial's Reading Clinic and Reading Institute. I did in my initial two year appointment .......... and stayed there for 38 1/2. Sadly, the person they hired when I retired in not, in my opinion, qualified to teach most of our literacy education courses.

So, I agree it is what one has learned and what one is able to actually do with this learning that should become the criteria for hiring, regardless of the field.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"Dr. G., you can't be this naive.

Look around you. Read news sources other than those you are comfortable with. Throughout the US the left has almost completely taken over not only primary & secondary schools, but especially, post-secondary. And, not only instructors but students, as well."

Nope.

I do, and I still contend that isolated incidents cannot be generalized beyond a reasonable horizon. I do NOT like the trend that seems to be taking shape in SOME US universities and schools, but this is NOT to be interpreted into my saying that ALL universities and schools are headed in this direction. I am still a centrist, who is willing to see all sides of a situation and belief, before making a decision as to where I stand on a certain situation.

Paix, mon ami.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

There is no such things as "free" tuition. Somebody is always paying for it. If not corporate & private donors via scholarships, bursaries, etc., then the taxpayer.



Dr.G. said:


> I am in favor of free tuition for qualified students.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Like I said, that didn't take long. Contrarians gonna go contrary.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

These incidents used to be isolated. We are far beyond that. They are now commonplace.



Dr.G. said:


> I do, and I still contend that isolated incidents cannot be generalized beyond a reasonable horizon.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

FeXL said:


> There is no such things as "free" tuition. Somebody is always paying for it. If not corporate & private donors via scholarships, bursaries, etc., then the taxpayer.


True. Still, if it helps qualified students obtain a meaningful college/university education, then it is worth the cost.

Have you ever seen the amount of the Harvard Endowment Fund? It could pay for rebuilding all the damaged homes in Texas due to the destruction of Hurricane Harvey.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

It's called a discussion, Freddie. Something that you, with all your edumacation & years of teaching, are mentally unable to conduct.

Talk about past behaviour confirming present...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Like I said, that didn't take long. Contrarians gonna go contrary.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Dr.G. said:


> Well, you would have to have observed and interviewed each of these teachers for this statement to be valid.


I only need to know how they teach and hear of the fear in students' voices of expressing the ideas they possess.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Question: Do we need all of these people attending university, college, tech school? 'Cause you just know that people who normally wouldn't sign up for one are now going to do so, on a lark. They'll hang for a semester or three with their childhood friends, or a member of their favourite sex, or their drinking buddies or because their parents told them to get some post-secondary eddication now that it's free.

Then they'll drop out and all that "free" money that could have been used on something constructive was just wasted.

You know as well as I that things earned have far more intrinsic value than those things merely given. If you truly want to go to post-secondary you will find a way to not only go, but to stay & succeed.



Dr.G. said:


> True. Still, if it helps qualified students obtain a meaningful college/university education, then it is worth the cost.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Freddie_Biff said:


> Like I said, that didn't take long. Contrarians gonna go contrary.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Birds Gotta Fly, Fish Gotta Swim.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

FeXL said:


> These incidents used to be isolated. We are far beyond that. They are now commonplace.


Well, as I have told my friend, Macfury, just because you say so does not make it so. Paix, mon ami.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

FeXL said:


> Question: Do we need all of these people attending university, college, tech school? 'Cause you just know that people who normally wouldn't sign up for one are now going to do so, on a lark. They'll hang for a semester or three with their childhood friends, or a member of their favourite sex, or their drinking buddies or because their parents told them to get some post-secondary eddication now that it's free.
> 
> Then they'll drop out and all that "free" money that could have been used on something constructive was just wasted.
> 
> You know as well as I that things earned have far more intrinsic value than those things merely given. If you truly want to go to post-secondary you will find a way to not only go, but to stay & succeed.


If they are not qualified, then they should not be allowed to enter. If they can't maintain certain standards, then they should not be allowed to stay. The State of Georgia has a good system of support, funded by the profits they make on the Georgia Lottery.

I lucked out way back when and was able to convince a bank manager to loan me $750, with no collateral, so I could go to university for one year. All I could offer was my promise to do well and to eventually pay off every penny that I would borrow. These were the days before federally guaranteed loans. I made good on my promise and paid back my four years of student loans ............. and was still able to obtain four university degrees.

So, I am in favor of giving individual students like myself the chance to succeed based on their own merits and accomplishments. Does this make me a Libertarian like my brother Macfury???


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

I've provided evidence to support my position.

You've provided none.



Dr.G. said:


> Well, as I have told my friend, Macfury, just because you say so does not make it so. Paix, mon ami.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

You know as well as I do that it doesn't take much to gain post-secondary acceptance, nor to hang around at a C level.

As far as standards are concerned, do you think that the post-secondary institutions are going to raise or lower their standards under pressure from governments to make political hay with all this "free" education money? It's not going to look very good if there are all these people gaining entrance to university & getting kicked out after first year because certain standards couldn't be met, is it?

In addition, the point is not whether they're maintaining acceptable standards. It's if they should be there in the first place & if they're going to last the long run, not a semester or three before they get bored & move on.



Dr.G. said:


> If they are not qualified, then they should not be allowed to enter. If they can't maintain certain standards, then they should not be allowed to stay.


Good for you. Seeing as you had to go out & get your education money rather than just get a gov't handout, don't you think that provided just a little extra kick in the pants to succeed? I certainly do. You've made my point for me.



Dr.G. said:


> So, I am in favor of giving individual students like myself the chance to succeed based on their own merits and accomplishments.


Doubtful. But you'd have to ask a Libertarian...



Dr.G. said:


> Does this make me a Libertarian like my brother Macfury???


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Ontario currently has a program designed to get failed high school students into college. They teach high school AT a college, then declare one of the courses to be a combined high school/college course. Voila, they are all in college!


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

FeXL said:


> I've provided evidence to support my position.
> 
> You've provided none.


My point is that you have generalized based on a few examples. You may say that these examples demonstrate some POV, but that does not necessarily make it so. I make no broad generalizations since there is no way I would be able to collect reliable and valid data.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"You know as well as I do that it doesn't take much to gain post-secondary acceptance, nor to hang around at a C level." FeXL, this is what I like about the State of Georgia model. You have to maintain an average of B each year that you want to apply for this grant. It is not just given to a student -- each student has to earn it.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Macfury said:


> Ontario currently has a program designed to get failed high school students into college. They teach high school AT a college, then declare one of the courses to be a combined high school/college course. Voila, they are all in college!


Interesting, if true. I know that my son wanted to take a degree program at U of T, but could not get into the program with a 3.2 (out of 4) average. He was able to get into a similar program at Ryerson.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

So what guarantees do we have that this sensible-sounding program will be implemented in Ontario?

Zero...



Dr.G. said:


> FeXL, this is what I like about the State of Georgia model. You have to maintain an average of B each year that you want to apply for this grant. It is not just given to a student -- each student has to earn it.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

I quoted a few examples from many available. I don't know how many or what it would take to convince you otherwise.



Dr.G. said:


> My point is that you have generalized based on a few examples.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

So, Freddie, question: Why is it that anyone who disagrees with you or offers an alternative viewpoint is a "contrarian"?

Why aren't you ever the "contrarian"?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Contrarians gonna go contrary.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

FeXL said:


> So what guarantees do we have that this sensible-sounding program will be implemented in Ontario?
> 
> Zero...


I have no idea, mon ami. I am really not that familiar with the post secondary system in ON.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

FeXL said:


> I quoted a few examples from many available. I don't know how many or what it would take to convince you otherwise.


My point is that one cannot make a broad generalization statement (e.g., everyone posting in this thread is a socialist) with just a limited number of anecdotal examples. Granted, I was hopeful when I read that one study that said that drinking red wine in moderation was helpful for one's heart, but it was only one study. Thus, while the finding in that one study may be accurate, it cannot be extended to all people in all situations. That is the problem with gathering and presenting reliable and valid statistics ............. there needs to be documented research, analysis and accuracy before a broad generalization might be made.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

FeXL said:


> So, Freddie, question: Why is it that anyone who disagrees with you or offers an alternative viewpoint is a "contrarian"?
> 
> Why aren't you ever the "contrarian"?


I thought that Frank was a British Columbian.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Dr.G. said:


> Birds Gotta Fly, Fish Gotta Swim.



Indeed. Haters gonna hate. Some people like to argue for the sake of arguing. Snakes gonna slither. Mosquitoes gonna bite. Vultures gonna feast on dead things.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Dr.G. said:


> My point is that you have generalized based on a few examples. You may say that these examples demonstrate some POV, but that does not necessarily make it so. I make no broad generalizations since there is no way I would be able to collect reliable and valid data.



Good luck with this, Marc. My experience is that contrarians believe what they want to believe. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Freddie_Biff said:


> Good luck with this, Marc. My experience is that contrarians believe what they want to believe.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We shall see. Paix, mon ami.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Dr.G. said:


> I thought that Frank was a British Columbian.



I'm an Albertan born and raised, though I have spent many summer vacations in British Columbia.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Freddie_Biff said:


> I'm an Albertan born and raised, though I have spent many summer vacations in British Columbia.


I thought so, but I needed something to rhyme with contrarian. I could have said Martian.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Dr.G. said:


> I thought so, but I needed something to rhyme with contrarian. I could have said Martian.



Or Bulgarian. Or Agrarian. Or Octogenarian.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Contrarian--anyone disagreeing with Freddie's ill-considered opinions.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Freddie_Biff said:


> Or Bulgarian. Or Agrarian. Or Octogenarian.


Nova Scotian ........... Labradorian ............. Librarian ................


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

B.C. budget funds 3,500 teachers, homes for homeless; hikes taxes on rich | National Post

Question is, where are they going to find these many teachers?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Breakfast program funding increase on the menu this fall - Nova Scotia - CBC News

Another very smart move here in NS.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

This guy is doing some interesting research on the value of education:
Education's Selfish and Social Returns, Bryan Caplan | EconLog | Library of Economics and Liberty

A major problem is measuring what higher education accomplishes is that the people who get post secondary degrees are not a random sample. A lot of the value derives from a potentially escalating game of "signalling" whereby more resources are being put into being seen as having the right credentials, not in actually having more and more useful skills. A complex area of research.

The slideshow he offers at the link is a bit technical (in language, not math). You have been warned about clicking through.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Dr.G. said:


> Nova Scotian ........... Labradorian ............. Librarian ................




Ooh, I like librarian. Or Aquarian. Or terrarium. Or planetarium. Or...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Freddie_Biff said:


> Ooh, I like librarian. Or Aquarian. Or terrarium. Or planetarium. Or...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I see you more as a Summarian rastafarian, with a wife named Marion, and the two of you educate the masses with your clay tablets.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Dr.G. said:


> I see you more as a Summarian rastafarian, with a wife named Marion, and the two of you educate the masses with your clay tablets.



So, Larry an' me were remarking about what a clever rhymin' Simon you turned out to be.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Well, this thread has certainly been educating... XX)


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Freddie_Biff said:


> So, Larry an' me were remarking about what a clever rhymin' Simon you turned out to be.


:lmao::clap::lmao:


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Dr.G. said:


> A fine idea for a thread, Steve. I have been a teacher, in one capacity or the next, at various age/grade levels, for 40 years. I still agree with Einstein. Paix, mon ami.


I agree with this completely. Education is about training the mind how to think. Sure some facts and figures have to go along with the the program, but training the mind to think is the most important thing.

Just like a potential athlete is taught all the techniques of a given sport but if they fail to be able to perform them they will not go very far in their respective sport in competition. But that does not mean they do not have something to teach others who just by genetics have greater physical capabilities than they they do. The teachers by their physical failures can still teach those with greater genetic abilities to use their mind to overcome matter. Most likely their physical limitations developed their mental strength to try to still become competitive.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

But telling students that "man is responsible for climate change" or "the life of a starfish i as important as that of a human" or "Christopher Columbus was an oppressive white racist" do not leave room to think--only for some to to react.



screature said:


> I agree with this completely. Education is about training the mind how to think. Sure some facts and figures have to go along with the the program, but training the mind to think is the most important thing.


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## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

What do science classrooms teach these days about gender? This is a hot button topic at the moment. Science obviously has it down pretty simply with biology but that is not what the media is telling us these days.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I have heard of a "trans-disabled" student who identifies as paraplegic and clumsily uses a wheelchair to manoeuvre hallways. The person is fully mobile and walks around whenever convenient. However, others are told that they must put up with this nonsense, which is not scientifically justifiable. Instead, they are forced to doff the scientific method and alter their own realities to suit the delusion.



wonderings said:


> What do science classrooms teach these days about gender? This is a hot button topic at the moment. Science obviously has it down pretty simply with biology but that is not what the media is telling us these days.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Macfury said:


> But telling students that "man is responsible for climate change" or "the life of a starfish i as important as that of a human" or "Christopher Columbus was an oppressive white racist" do not leave room to think--only for some to to react.




Would you even accept that man is PARTIALLY responsible for climate change? Just how absolute are your views on this?


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

wonderings said:


> What do science classrooms teach these days about gender? This is a hot button topic at the moment. Science obviously has it down pretty simply with biology but that is not what the media is telling us these days.




Funny thing is, gender can actually be more fluid in other species. Take earthworms for example, who have both genitalia, but still require another earthworm to mate. Or frogs, which can change gender depending on the local environment and what's needed for the species. Gender isn't exactly as cut and dry as we assume it might be. Human hermaphrodites have always existed, for example. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

Freddie_Biff said:


> Funny thing is, gender can actually be more fluid in other species. Take earthworms for example, who have both genitalia, but still require another earthworm to mate. Or frogs, which can change gender depending on the local environment and what's needed for the species. Gender isn't exactly as cut and dry as we assume it might be. Human hermaphrodites have always existed, for example.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well I should have been a bit more specific, what does high school science classes teach about human gender which is not fluid... biologically speaking.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Freddie_Biff said:


> Would you even accept that man is PARTIALLY responsible for climate change? Just how absolute are your views on this?


Yes. So are beavers when they build large dams, or zebras when they stomp on the veldt.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Macfury said:


> Yes. So are beavers when they build large dams, or zebras when they stomp on the veldt.




Well! Macfury makes progress.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

wonderings said:


> Well I should have been a bit more specific, what does high school science classes teach about human gender which is not fluid... biologically speaking.




It may be more fluid than you think. Where do hermaphrodites fall on the male-female continuum, for example?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well! Macfury makes progress.


That's all you get because that's the minimal effect we have on climate. And the effect of all of the ludicrous green energy projects and carbon taxes on climate is close to zero.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Macfury said:


> That's all you get because that's the minimal effect we have on climate. And the effect of all of the ludicrous green energy projects and carbon taxes on climate is close to zero.




And that's using your supersonic gut instinct I suppose. Sure do seem to be a lot of hurricanes this year though.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

No, that's based on science. This has been an average year for number of hurricanes--unless you guess using your supersonic gut instinct. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> And that's using your supersonic gut instinct I suppose. Sure do seem to be a lot of hurricanes this year though.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

_Seems like a good place to drop this in...._

*Toronto man 'angry' after learning his $8,100 master's degree that required no exams or academic work is fake*










Erwin Sniedzins doesn't trust traditional universities.

So when the Toronto business management consultant found one offering a master's degree requiring no studying, exams, or academic work — for just $8,100 — Sniedzins thought it was a school sharing his unconventional approach to education.

"I don't necessarily like to pay $30,000 to get a master's when I feel I already have the knowledge," Sniedzins said in an interview with CBC Toronto.

He said the degree issued by Kings Lake University, which he found by searching the internet, is based on his previous life experience and professional accomplishments.

Sniedzins is president and CEO of Mount Knowledge, an educational software company. In his LinkedIn profile, he is described as an "Artificial Intelligence Gamification Patent Inventor, Key Note Speaker, Professor, Author."

** * **​
Sniedzins repeatedly told CBC Toronto that he never suspected a degree based on life experience that required no academic work, studying or exams could be fake as it was in line with his approach to education.

(CBC)​


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

What about the dearth of land-making hurricanes the last 12 years?

If you are truly interested in the topic, head over to the GHG Thread. Very good article on hurricanes recently posted there.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Sure do seem to be a lot of hurricanes this year though.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

I think it's fabulous. I'll just bet he's waiting for a couple cheques from Nigeria, too. :greedy:

You can't fix stupid.



CubaMark said:


> _Seems like a good place to drop this in...._


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Dr.G. said:


> Sometimes this is true. Still, I like to give people the opportunity to make positive comments, even if they are critical comments, in all threads. It is when the comments get personal, as in "You taught 40 years????? What a dope to stick it out that long." So, we shall see who contributes to this thread and how their contributions advance the discussion about education. Paix, mon ami.


Amen!!!


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Macfury said:


> I would say that imbuing students with a deliberately narrow range of leftist ideology now passes for "teaching students to think."





eMacMan said:


> I would make that any ideology. The student needs to develop the tools to chose his own vision. Anything else is essentially doing the homework for the student.





Macfury said:


> However, today it's leftist.


Ha! When I first went to university at 16 I thought I was a conservative, then I met some pretty hot leftist young women who seemed to think I was hot as well, well one thing led to another and I bought an NDP Partyship. The first and only Partyship I have ever had (what one will do to have sex)... I think that lasted about 4 months,

Anyway it can take some time but even young people are completely capable of thinking for themselves, hormones be damned!


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

screature said:


> Amen!!!


Paix, mon ami. I hope that Life is treating you well these days.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

screature said:


> Ha! When I first went to university at 16 I thought I was a conservative, then I met some pretty hot leftist young women who seemed to think I was hot as well, well one thing led to another and I bought an NDP Partyship. The first and only Partyship I have ever had (what one will do to have sex)... I think that lasted about 4 months,
> 
> Anyway it can take some time but even young people are completely capable of thinking for themselves, hormones be damned!


:clap::clap:


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Macfury said:


> That's all you get because that's the minimal effect we have on climate. And the effect of all of the ludicrous green energy projects and carbon taxes on climate is close to zero.


Climate change is real. It has been the case since the beginning of time, it only makes logical sense. We are definitely live during a period of climate change. Now as to whether or not we amplify those changes has yet to be proven. But definitively we are living in a period of significant climate change.

So it could be all natural, just the way things are and have always been. But things are not as "they have always been" since the industrial and technological revolutions. I cannot see how any logical person could not see that we as a species have affected the climate of the world, if anyone knows something about quantum physics to say the least.

Now as to whether or not we are taking the correct choice to alleviate the effects of climate change for OUR OWN GOOD if highly debatable. But what what I would suggest is that we not only think about our own good when we think about such matters, but we think about the good of this beautiful blue marble, like no other that we know of, floating through space and time.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I would argue that the records show that not even the rate of climate change is significant. Many of us were born during an unusually stable climate from 1950 through 1970.



screature said:


> Climate change is real. It has been the case since the beginning of time, it only makes logical sense. We are definitely live during a period of climate change. Now as to whether or not we amplify those changes has yet to be proven. But definitively we are living in a period of significant climate change.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

So.......as this is a thread about education......how would you teach a series on climate change......and while I believe a teacher can help inform students with an opinion......when would you draw the line on implanting your beliefs . Depending on the age of your students, many might hold your beliefs as a truth......and in many areas our views are only our views and not truths. But then again a truth today tends to be a generally accepted belief. And as history has shown, often written by the winners.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

screature said:


> Climate change is real. It has been the case since the beginning of time, it only makes logical sense. We are definitely live during a period of climate change. Now as to whether or not we amplify those changes has yet to be proven. But definitively we are living in a period of significant climate change.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Good points, Steve, but permit me to make one observation. We also have to be careful of the "post hoc; ergo propter hoc" argument—which translates to "after this; therefore because of this." Many observable changes in climate do seem to have occurred since the Industrial Revolution, but that does not prove that the Industrial Revolution caused them. It could be a coincidence. More evidence that X causes Y would be helpful, as opposed to synchronicity type reasoning. However, it stands to reason just as a general principle that if we don't clean up after ourselves, there are consequences (smog, plastic particles in the ocean, for example). It would be best for us and for the planet to be good stewards, I would think.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Bring this over to the GHG thread. Let's talk about it.



screature said:


> But definitively we are living in a period of significant climate change.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Rps said:


> So.......as this is a thread about education......how would you teach a series on climate change......and while I believe a teacher can help inform students with an opinion......when would you draw the line on implanting your beliefs . Depending on the age of your students, many might hold your beliefs as a truth......and in many areas our views are only our views and not truths. But then again a truth today tends to be a generally accepted belief. And as history has shown, often written by the winners.




There is never a time when a teacher is not passing on his or her beliefs to students, even involuntarily. If you try to be objective and non-opinionated, already you are passing on the belief that objectivity is better than opinion. As far as climate change goes, the best one can do is examine as many viewpoints as possible before coming to some kind of conclusion. Most often students will parrot their parents' views, like with religion or politics, and the teacher's role (I believe) is to show that there's a bigger world out there and beliefs with which they may not yet be familiar. That in itself is also a belief, but I think it's a healthy one.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Frank, I think this depends on the grade you teach. At lower levels students expect " an answer", at the higher levels there is room for discussion, at the highest levels we call the discussion research. MacFury and others have commented on the political slant curricula can take...climate change being one such topic. In my day it was Louis Riel, today it's climate change, tomorrow who knows.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Rps said:


> Frank, I think this depends on the grade you teach. At lower levels students expect " an answer", at the higher levels there is room for discussion, at the highest levels we call the discussion research. MacFury and others have commented on the political slant curricula can take...climate change being one such topic. In my day it was Louis Riel, today it's climate change, tomorrow who knows.




You're right. Was Louis Riel a traitor or a hero? Depends who's asking. I do believe, however, that the power to explore multiple viewpoints should not be limited to only higher grades. It can be simplified, of course, but children in my experience have the capacity to look at issues from more than one perspective. Heck, it might help them to understand each other better when they're older if they start looking at different points of view while they're young.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

I do not disagree...it is how it is presented. The recent elections might have generated a topic such as " is it better to be a business person or a politician as President or Prime Minister." this could have interesting discussions without political bias ( but the teacher would have to work at it ).


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Rps said:


> I do not disagree...it is how it is presented. The recent elections might have generated a topic such as " is it better to be a business person or a politician as President or Prime Minister." this could have interesting discussions without political bias ( but the teacher would have to work at it ).




An interesting view an an interesting question. It is really difficult to be completely unbiased, and I certainly know many teachers whose views span the entire political spectrum. It would be naive to think all teachers are lefties, for example, even if our jobs are public sector. To be an unbiased mediator of discussions can be done, but it takes great vigilance.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Rps said:


> So.......as this is a thread about education......how would you teach a series on climate change......and while I believe a teacher can help inform students with an opinion......when would you draw the line on implanting your beliefs . Depending on the age of your students, many might hold your beliefs as a truth......and in many areas our views are only our views and not truths. But then again a truth today tends to be a generally accepted belief. And as history has shown, often written by the winners.


Valid points, Rp. :clap:


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Freddie_Biff said:


> There is never a time when a teacher is not passing on his or her beliefs to students, even involuntarily. If you try to be objective and non-opinionated, already you are passing on the belief that objectivity is better than opinion. As far as climate change goes, the best one can do is examine as many viewpoints as possible before coming to some kind of conclusion. Most often students will parrot their parents' views, like with religion or politics, and the teacher's role (I believe) is to show that there's a bigger world out there and beliefs with which they may not yet be familiar. That in itself is also a belief, but I think it's a healthy one.


Also valid points, Frank.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Rps said:


> I do not disagree...it is how it is presented. The recent elections might have generated a topic such as " is it better to be a business person or a politician as President or Prime Minister." this could have interesting discussions without political bias ( but the teacher would have to work at it ).


More valid points.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)




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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Freddie_Biff said:


>


Have you seen the process of the new "new math"? I have tried to understand the process, but I am lost.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Dr.G. said:


> Have you seen the process of the new "new math"? I have tried to understand the process, but I am lost.



You mean "discovery math"? Yeah, all I've discovered is that there were a lot of people before me who discovered and shared some pretty great shortcuts. I don't think I'd be coming up with a quadratic equation on my own.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Freddie_Biff said:


> You mean "discovery math"? Yeah, all I've discovered is that there were a lot of people before me who discovered and shared some pretty great shortcuts. I don't think I'd be coming up with a quadratic equation on my own.


Yes, "discovery math" is now considered the new "new math". I never could do a quadratic equation in algebra, but I am able to do mental math without pencil or paper ............. or a calculator.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Rps said:


> The issue that I see is not ideology, I mean we all live one whether we recognise it or not, but being able to think about issues. Unfortunately from lower grades to high school students are essentially told to " listen" and when they enter college or university are expected to think......and it is a brave teacher who challenges that model. *We also need to focus on core competencies...these will never change and provide a framework from which students can develop critical thinking skills to be used their entire life.*


I totally agree Rps and even though I went to a Catholic High School believe I was provided that. There were only two things Catholic about the school the first was that there was a priest on staff and you could could to a mass every day at lunch time, I went a few times, it wasn't bad, aside from the Christ and God stuff it was just basic moral and ethical instruction, there certainly was no "mind control" or anything like that about it.

The second was Religion class which you could opt out of for another course in your graduating year. It was actually very good, lots of debate but little to no indoctrination. Again it was basically about morals, ethics and philosophy, not even Christianity per say.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Macfury said:


> It makes it so at the three schools with which I have direct experience and at dozens of schools where others I know have direct experience.


Ok so you have direct experience with 3 schools. The rest of your post is just pure hearsay.

I will say this though, I think most teachers tend to lean to to the left because they want to help other people. People on the right, in general, seem to just want to help themselves.

So education is not a priority of those on the right because there is not much money in it until you get to be a professor and publish inflammatory and highly debatable words, then as an academic you can make some money. Go on a speaking tour, get banned by some institutions and that makes you all the the more news worthy which is good for your bottom line in the end, great free publicity.

This is what I have seen, time and time again.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

This is the most prejudicial piece of crap I've ever seen you post on these boards.

If that's all you've seen it's time for you to get out of the big city.

Get a grip.



screature said:


> People on the right, in general, seem to just want to help themselves.
> 
> So education is not a priority of those on the right because there is not much money in it until you get to be a professor and publish inflammatory and highly debatable words, then as an academic you can make some money. Go on a speaking tour, get banned by some institutions and that makes you all the the more news worthy which is good for your bottom line in the end, great free publicity.
> 
> This is what I have seen, time and time again.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I think that's nonsense. They leaned to the left because they always leaned to the left and were hired by government entities who also leaned to the left in hiring and promotion. Eventually, they filter out dissent.



screature said:


> Ok so you have direct experience with 3 schools. The rest of your post is just pure hearsay.
> 
> I will say this though, I think most teachers tend to lean to to the left because they want to help other people. People on the right, in general, seem to just want to help themselves.
> 
> ...


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

screature said:


> I will say this though, I think most teachers tend to lean to to the left because they want to help other people. People on the right, in general, seem to just want to help themselves.


So what you are saying is the left is good and the right is evil?

How about this, the right is tired of mismanegment costing billions of dollars that could actually be used to help people. Think how much more good could be done if money was handled properly and not squandered away?

How many teachers are willing to take a pay cut in order to hire more teachers so they can have the smaller class rooms they want? There is greed on both sides, none are clean of it. You can only spend so much, it is pretty basic, if you are spending more then is coming in you are going to have problems. Now if us tax payers were willing to pay more for these services that would be great, but I am guessing if you polled the country you would find the majority do not want higher taxes.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

FeXL said:


> *This is the most prejudicial piece of crap I've ever seen you post on these boards.*
> 
> If that's all you've seen it's time for you to get out of the big city.
> 
> Get a grip.


It not prejudicial at all, it is observational. There are more liberal teachers than conservative teachers especially as you go up the educational ladder, in this country at least. Maybe you should go to the big cities where their are more school's and universities than there are in small back waters and therefore more teachers on which to make such an observation. 

Get a grip on what exactly, the facts, I think I have a pretty good grip on them already.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

screature said:


> It not prejudicial at all, it is observational. There are more liberal teachers than conservative teachers especially as you go up the educational ladder, in this country at least. Maybe you should go to the big cities where their are more school's and universities than there are in small back waters and therefore more teachers on which to make such an observation.
> 
> Get a grip on what exactly, the facts, I think I have a pretty good grip on them already.


A valid point, screature. In the final analysis, there is no actual way to know the political leanings of every teacher in a country unless you poll all of these teachers. Since there is no such research, conclusions that teachers are mainly "right wing" or "left wing" or "moderates" is sheer speculation. Paix, mon ami.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Dr.G. said:


> A valid point, screature. In the final analysis, there is no actual way to know the political leanings of every teacher in a country unless you poll all of these teachers. Since there is no such research, conclusions that teachers are mainly "right wing" or "left wing" or "moderates" is sheer speculation. Paix, mon ami.



Not to mention irrelevant. My doctor my be obese himself but that does not mean he's going to recommend obesity as a healthy lifestyle. My mechanic may have a preference for Toyota but he's still going to do his best to repair my GM product. Certain clueless folks on these boards seem to think it is impossible for a teacher to have a Progressive mindset and still teach the curriculum objectively. These people have a rather shallow understanding of people.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

It isn't impossible--they just see no reason to do it. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> ...seem to think it is impossible for a teacher to have a Progressive mindset and still teach the curriculum objectively.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Freddie_Biff said:


> Not to mention irrelevant. My doctor my be obese himself but that does not mean he's going to recommend obesity as a healthy lifestyle. My mechanic may have a preference for Toyota but he's still going to do his best to repair my GM product. Certain clueless folks on these boards seem to think it is impossible for a teacher to have a Progressive mindset and still teach the curriculum objectively. These people have a rather shallow understanding of people.


Good point, Frank. This is why I wish folks here in ehMacLand, including yours truly, would just state their opinions in a reasonable and friendly manner. Opinions are not fact, and if I think that US made cars are better than those made abroad, that is my opinion. The Honda Civic may be the #1 selling car in Canada last year, which is backed by fact, but I feel that a Toyota product is a better car for me, which is my opinion. 

I just wish that there would be an end to the constant back and forth bickering found in many threads here in ehMacLand. We shall see if I get my wish. Paix, mon ami.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

You will not get your wish, Dr. G. Few matters will be permanently settled in your favour.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Macfury said:


> You will not get your wish, Dr. G. Few matters will be permanently settled in your favour.


I am not looking for "matters" to be "settled" in my favor. I would just like opinions to be considered, then accepted or rejected as one's opinion, without the personal attacks. Your posting is an example, in my opinion, of a reasonable response. I would have said "You may not get your wish" rather than to use the words "will not", but that is a matter of semantics. While you and I don't agree many times on various issues, at least you are reasonable in your disagreements with me. Paix, mon ami.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Well, screature, that's your opinion & it's worth every bit it took to put it onscreen...



screature said:


> Get a grip on what exactly, the facts, I think I have a pretty good grip on them already.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> It isn't impossible--they just see no reason to do it.


Well, I teach....so which way do I “ lean”, left or right?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Rps said:


> Well, I teach....so which way do I “ lean”, left or right?


Based on what I've seen here, I would put you right down the middle. Left on some, right on others.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Just as good a thread as any...

Dallas School Board Designates Founding Fathers As Having "Confederate Links"



> The Dallas Independent School District is in damage control mode after an internal school board list was obtained by local press which shows schools under consideration for name changes due to possible "connections with slavery or the Confederacy." News of the list, obtained by the Dallas Morning News early this week, caused outrage for the fact that it includes Texas revolutionaries and founders such as Sam Houston, James Bowie and William Travis, as well as Dallas pioneers James Gaston and William Brown Miller. It further names other early American figures who very obviously lived long before the existence of the Confederacy such as U.S. presidents Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and, inexplicably, Ben Franklin.


No bias & definitely not politically correct. Nope...

Shtoopid, shtoopid, shtoopid.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> Based on what I've seen here, I would put you right down the middle. Left on some, right on others.


And I think you will find that with many people, teachers included....it’s the issues that count....and, yes, some issues I may be left leaning others I may be right leaning. You can not generalise and say all teachers are left or right. So again, we are discussing the politics of education via association. A little Paulo Freire would go well now I think.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Rps said:


> And I think you will find that with many people, teachers included....it’s the issues that count....and, yes, some issues I may be left leaning others I may be right leaning. You can not generalise and say all teachers are left or right. So again, we are discussing the politics of education via association. A little Paulo Freire would go well now I think.


:clap::clap::clap: Well said, mon ami. PF would be proud. Paix.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I'm not interested in what they think as much as what they teach. I have personally viewed leftist scoped classes and instruction at the vast majority of classes with students I know. I find it unlikely that anyone who has a basis in logical conservatism would suddenly lose their mind and then spout leftist dogma in class, but maybe you could convince me that this is how some people operate.




Rps said:


> And I think you will find that with many people, teachers included....it’s the issues that count....and, yes, some issues I may be left leaning others I may be right leaning. You can not generalise and say all teachers are left or right. So again, we are discussing the politics of education via association. A little Paulo Freire would go well now I think.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Macfury said:


> I'm not interested in what they think as much as what they teach. I have personally viewed leftist scoped classes and instruction at the vast majority of classes with students I know. I find it unlikely that anyone who has a basis in logical conservatism would suddenly lose their mind and then spout leftist dogma in class, but maybe you could convince me that this is how some people operate.


I would think that someone who has a "basis in logical conservatism" would realize that what he experienced/observed cannot be extrapolated to cover ALL classrooms in North America. Use your logic, mon ami. What you viewed and experienced might have been this way, so your observations are correct. And maybe these observations were of "leftist scoped classes", but it is only your opinion that this is what it was/is like in all other classrooms. Paix.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> I'm not interested in what they think as much as what they teach. I have personally viewed leftist scoped classes and instruction at the vast majority of classes with students I know. I find it unlikely that anyone who has a basis in logical conservatism would suddenly lose their mind and then spout leftist dogma in class, but maybe you could convince me that this is how some people operate.


Leftist dogma is an interesting phrase. At one time Universal Healthcare, Social Insurance, Unemployed Insurance, and a host of others were considered Leftist, along with universal education for our youth, Health and Safety ...you get the drill. So our current socio-cultural environment, which for the most part is generally accepted as what makes the fabric of being Canadian.....that leftist dogma?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Rps said:


> Leftist dogma is an interesting phrase. At one time Universal Healthcare, Social Insurance, Unemployed Insurance, and a host of others were considered Leftist, along with universal education for our youth, Health and Safety ...you get the drill. So our current socio-cultural environment, which for the most part is generally accepted as what makes the fabric of being Canadian.....that leftist dogma?


:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Rps said:


> Leftist dogma is an interesting phrase. At one time Universal Healthcare, Social Insurance, Unemployed Insurance, and a host of others were considered Leftist, along with universal education for our youth, Health and Safety ...you get the drill. So our current socio-cultural environment, which for the most part is generally accepted as what makes the fabric of being Canadian.....that leftist dogma?


I agree with the idea of public healthcare and education, but the sensitivity of educators to the claim of being broadly left wing is odd. How many generalizations have you glossed over before focusing on this topic?


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Beej, I think the heart of this current discussion is all about generalisations. The premise stated above was that educators have a left bias and inculcate that bias in their classes.......which I personally believe is blatantly wrong. And, again, it is difficult to discuss education without introducing politics......I had hoped this thread would take a different bent.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Rps said:


> I had hoped this thread would take a different bent.


It didn't. The norm is conversational debate including logical flaws and short cuts. For some reason this topic resulted in the request for strict logical standards. That is notable.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

In the US, political affiliation is easier to track. In 2014, this study found that nationally, colleges and universities had a six to one ratio of liberal to conservative professors. In New England, the figure was 28 to one. If anything, Canada is culturally to the left of the US.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news...lleges-responsible-left-leaning-professoriate


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Beej said:


> I agree with the idea of public healthcare and education, but the sensitivity of educators to the claim of being broadly left wing is odd. How many generalizations have you glossed over before focusing on this topic?


A valid point, Beej.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Yes, in the manner applied and at the political level it's administered, it's leftist dogma that's infiltrated mainstream culture. 



Rps said:


> Leftist dogma is an interesting phrase. At one time Universal Healthcare, Social Insurance, Unemployed Insurance, and a host of others were considered Leftist, along with universal education for our youth, Health and Safety ...you get the drill. So our current socio-cultural environment, which for the most part is generally accepted as what makes the fabric of being Canadian.....that leftist dogma?


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> In the US, political affiliation is easier to track. In 2014, this study found that nationally, colleges and universities had a six to one ratio of liberal to conservative professors. In New England, the figure was 28 to one. If anything, Canada is culturally to the left of the US.
> 
> https://www.insidehighered.com/news...lleges-responsible-left-leaning-professoriate


Hell! At one time we were considered down right Communist compared to the U.S.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> Yes, in the manner applied and at the political level it's administered, it's leftist dogma that's infiltrated mainstream culture.


There is a left, right, and centre in everything...even Libertarianism. Which raises an interesting question ( and forgive the teacher in me here ) “Does the dogma create the culture or does the culture create the dogma”. Discuss.....


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Dogma reiterated infiltrates culture. For example, I can see dogma about child molesters as sensitive victims infiltrating society--already much more prevalent in the UK.



Rps said:


> There is a left, right, and centre in everything...even Libertarianism. Which raises an interesting question ( and forgive the teacher in me here ) “Does the dogma create the culture or does the culture create the dogma”. Discuss.....


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> Dogma reiterated infiltrates culture. For example, I can see dogma about child molesters as sensitive victims infiltrating society--already much more prevalent in the UK.


Great choice of subject MacFury, I will be disappointed if there isn’t a lot of discussion now....but dogma, in my mind, is driven by authority and is presented as a truth. So, who in authority (and I think this is the crux of your point as to what authority is ) states this as a truth? The trouble with truth is, at least to me, is that truth is a collection of generally accepted consensus. Truth is not an absolute in today’s world....and politically that is almost a certainty, it is more of a belief.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

pass.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

screature said:


> pass.


Screature, both you and I know MacFury is button pushing, but the point that dogma inflitrates curricula is a valid question......


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Dr.G. said:


> Good point, Frank. This is why I wish folks here in ehMacLand, including yours truly, would just state their opinions in a reasonable and friendly manner. Opinions are not fact, and if I think that US made cars are better than those made abroad, that is my opinion. The Honda Civic may be the #1 selling car in Canada last year, which is backed by fact, but I feel that a Toyota product is a better car for me, which is my opinion.
> 
> I just wish that there would be an end to the constant back and forth bickering found in many threads here in ehMacLand. We shall see if I get my wish. Paix, mon ami.





Macfury said:


> You will not get your wish, Dr. G. Few matters will be permanently settled in your favour.





Dr.G. said:


> *I am not looking for "matters" to be "settled" in my favor. I would just like opinions to be considered, then accepted or rejected as one's opinion, without the personal attacks*. Your posting is an example, in my opinion, of a reasonable response. I would have said "You may not get your wish" rather than to use the words "will not", but that is a matter of semantics. While you and I don't agree many times on various issues, at least you are reasonable in your disagreements with me. Paix, mon ami.


In favour of what? One's opinion? Dr.G. never implied that. All he postulated was a place where one could express their opinion without being personally castigated for it, cut and dry. He never mentioned anything about, "permanently settled in your favour". What is that supposed to mean? Dr.G. has expressed himself, but, based on your post and since this is a public forum, I felt the need to comment.

All he is asking for is a more polite and diplomatic discourse, free of ad hominem attacks. Personally I think that is doable or at least for members to try and stifle themselves sometimes when it comes personally attacking another member... In the Trump era that seems unlikely, but one can only hope.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Rps said:


> Screature, both you and I know MacFury is button pushing, but the point that dogma inflitrates curricula is a valid question......


Yeah, I had a response post all triggered up and ready to go... I actually posted it but on second thought made it a pass.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

screature said:


> Yeah, I had a response post all triggered up and ready to go... I actually posted it but on second thought made it a pass.


Yes, but it is interesting about the reply on dogma, it has all the current political trappings. First take an emotionally charged topic, frame it as if a movement is supporting a contention, then place it in a distant area that by doing so somehow is a threat to “us”, all using unnamed sources as having the power to elicit an undesirable social change.....if this were the American Political Thread I would say it was right out of Trump’s playbook.

But back to the root ...the contention that a left driven authority is using its dogma to influence curricula......so the driver, which was not really answered, does dogma drive society or does society drive dogma remains a fair point to debate, all trolling aside. This “Hidden Curriculum” can not be cast aside....but is it generational or constantly evolving? That said, what play does social media have on our view of education?


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Rps said:


> Leftist dogma is an interesting phrase. At one time Universal Healthcare, Social Insurance, Unemployed Insurance, and a host of others were considered Leftist, along with universal education for our youth, Health and Safety ...you get the drill. So our current socio-cultural environment, which for the most part is generally accepted as what makes the fabric of being Canadian.....that leftist dogma?



He has a hard time accepting that most Canadians gladly embrace some of the ideals of "the left" if it makes for better lives.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

This coming from the guy who posted this:



screature said:


> People on the right, in general, seem to just want to help themselves.


Serious? You castigate a broad swath of the population in one fell swoop & expect "a more polite and diplomatic discourse"?

Screw you.



screature said:


> All he is asking for is a more polite and diplomatic discourse, free of ad hominem attacks. Personally I think that is doable...


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

And another mature reply from FeXL, ladies and gentlemen. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Macfury said:


> In the US, political affiliation is easier to track. In 2014, this study found that nationally, colleges and universities had a six to one ratio of liberal to conservative professors. In New England, the figure was 28 to one. If anything, Canada is culturally to the left of the US.
> 
> https://www.insidehighered.com/news...lleges-responsible-left-leaning-professoriate


Based on what? Your opinion?

But yes I agree, Canada is culturally left to the US. Even though I detest JT and most of his Cabinet, they are are a Helluva lot better than anyone in Trump's circus of puppets.

The thing that you do not seem to understand MF is that politics is not black and white. 

Due to you being locked into a certain form of political doctrine it seems you do not get the bigger picture. I say this with no word of exaggeration, if you support Donald Trump and his policies or lack there of, you support bringing the world write large onto to brink of WWIII. This is no hyperbole on my part. Read!!!


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

FeXL said:


> This coming from the guy who posted this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You just proved my point.

It was my stated *opinion * at the time and as expected you added ad an hominem attack. 'Nough said. I could say more but decency dictates that I don't.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Macfury said:


> https://www.insidehighered.com/news...lleges-responsible-left-leaning-professoriate


Thanks for the link. Good to see some data offered in this discussion.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Rps said:


> Great choice of subject MacFury, I will be disappointed if there isn’t a lot of discussion now....but dogma, in my mind, is driven by authority and is presented as a truth. So, who in authority (and I think this is the crux of your point as to what authority is ) states this as a truth? The trouble with truth is, at least to me, is that truth is a collection of generally accepted consensus. Truth is not an absolute in today’s world....and politically that is almost a certainty, it is more of a belief.


I'm seeing media reports in the UK softening up on pedophelia. For example, a strict division between pedophiles who simply get off on watching children being molested, or on depictions of children being molested. The argument goes that they're avoiding attacks on children by accessing child pornography--so lets go easy on child pornography. Then the notion that perhaps pedophilia harms some people, but not all people. That many children grow up to find it was a positive experience for them.

The first line of infiltration is media attempting to normalize the behaviour, so that pedophiles are not absolutely bad, pedophilia is not absolutely wrong and the experiences of children who are molested are not 100% negative. When media looks for authority in matter such as this, it's usually an academic or psychiatrist.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Yes, based on my opinion. Socialized medicine and other government takeovers of private services.

I support Trump nominally, not fully. Only some of his policies are good. But I did not support _any_ of Hillary Clinton's policies.



screature said:


> Based on what? Your opinion?
> 
> But yes I agree, Canada is culturally left to the US. Even though I detest JT and most of his Cabinet, they are are a Helluva lot better than anyone in Trump's circus of puppets.
> 
> ...


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> I'm seeing media reports in the UK softening up on pedophelia. For example, a strict division between pedophiles who simply get off on watching children being molested, or on depictions of children being molested. The argument goes that they're avoiding attacks on children by accessing child pornography--so lets go easy on child pornography. Then the notion that perhaps pedophilia harms some people, but not all people. That many children grow up to find it was a positive experience for them.
> 
> The first line of infiltration is media attempting to normalize the behaviour, so that pedophiles are not absolutely bad, pedophilia is not absolutely wrong and the experiences of children who are molested are not 100% negative. When media looks for authority in matter such as this, it's usually an academic or psychiatrist.


I have read about that as well, but I believe the notion is child pornography lessens the chance of actual child abuse by some of the population......personally I believe pornography is the “ gateway drug”, but back to your reply which was on dogma, and you nicely avoided. Does dogma inform or influence a society or does the society influence and inform dogma. As I indicated above, dogma presumes an authority that presents a view as a truth, your example hardly would count as an item held by authority, or as a truth.......it might be an outlier opinion though......look at climate change, is it a true truth or a dogma truth?

In education, we deal with both. The curricula is determined by the government...so when a politicalised subject matter is to be taught, is it dogma or a truth? My answer to that is based on two things, time and social change. Again I hate to bring up our old friend Louis Riel but, at my age, he fits.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Macfury said:


> I'm seeing media reports in the UK softening up on pedophelia. For example, a strict division between pedophiles who simply get off on watching children being molested, or on depictions of children being molested. The argument goes that they're avoiding attacks on children by accessing child pornography--so lets go easy on child pornography. Then the notion that perhaps pedophilia harms some people, but not all people. That many children grow up to find it was a positive experience for them.
> 
> 
> 
> The first line of infiltration is media attempting to normalize the behaviour, so that pedophiles are not absolutely bad, pedophilia is not absolutely wrong and the experiences of children who are molested are not 100% negative. When media looks for authority in matter such as this, it's usually an academic or psychiatrist.




What makes you think there are not pedophiles who lean to the right? I'd start with Trump himself and his fists to the dressing rooms of teenage girls in the Miss Universes pageants.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Rps said:


> I have read about that as well, but I believe the notion is child pornography lessens the chance of actual child abuse by some of the population......personally I believe pornography is the “ gateway drug”, but back to your reply which was on dogma, and you nicely avoided. Does dogma inform or influence a society or does the society influence and inform dogma. As I indicated above, dogma presumes an authority that presents a view as a truth, your example hardly would count as an item held by authority, or as a truth.......it might be an outlier opinion though......look at climate change, is it a true truth or a dogma truth?
> 
> 
> 
> In education, we deal with both. The curricula is determined by the government...so when a politicalised subject matter is to be taught, is it dogma or a truth? My answer to that is based on two things, time and social change. Again I hate to bring up our old friend Louis Riel but, at my age, he fits.



Louis Riel is a classic example of how history is written by the victors. Another pertains to who won. The battle of the Plains of Abraham. The answer largely depends on whether you sympathize with the French or the English. If one teaches history with any sort of objectivity, there are many on the right who will accuse the teacher of being leftist.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Your comment is so far off the mark, it's clear you either failed to read the original post or simply don't understand it.



Freddie_Biff said:


> What makes you think there are not pedophiles who lean to the right? I'd start with Trump himself and his fists to the dressing rooms of teenage girls in the Miss Universes pageants.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

What does England vs. France have to do with left or righ? Might be better if you take a long nap before returning to the forum,



Freddie_Biff said:


> Louis Riel is a classic example of how history is written by the victors. Another pertains to who won. The battle of the Plains of Abraham. The answer largely depends on whether you sympathize with the French or the English. If one teaches history with any sort of objectivity, there are many on the right who will accuse the teacher of being leftist.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Macfury said:


> What does England vs. France have to do with left or righ? Might be better if you take a long nap before returning to the forum,




When did I claim this post was about left vs. right? It is about history and victors and who gets to say what happened. Clearly you misunderstood the original post.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Freddie_Biff said:


> When did I claim this post was about left vs. right? It is about history and victors and who gets to say what happened. Clearly you misunderstood the original post.


The fact that you finished the post with:



> If one teaches history with any sort of objectivity, there are _many on the right who will accuse the teacher of being leftist._


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Macfury said:


> The fact that you finished the post with:




That's a different post, but for the sake of argument, was it not you who's been claiming a leftist slant in the school system?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

It's the same post. 

A leftist slant would not claim that the French won the Battle of the Plains of Abraham. They' be pissing and moaning that the British victory was somehow unfair or unearned.



Freddie_Biff said:


> That's a different post, but for the sake of argument, was it not you who's been claiming a leftist slant in the school system?


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

I proved what? That if someone says enough stupid things he'll get a response from the target market?

CONGRATULATIONS!!! You win. Your mother would be proud.



screature said:


> You just proved my point.


If you had a shred of decency in the first place you would have written off the entire right as a bunch of uncharitable louts in the first place.



screature said:


> It was my stated *opinion * at the time and as expected you added ad an hominem attack. 'Nough said. I could say more but decency dictates that I don't.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Rps said:


> ...look at climate change, is it a true truth or a dogma truth?


What part of it?


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

There's been a lot of talk about opinions on the boards lately. I'd like to wade into the fray with my opinion on opinions.

First off, I recognize two types of opinions: Informed & uninformed.

Second, I recognize the right of anybody to be able to offer an opinion, no matter how daft.

Third, I have no issues with a differing opinion, as long as it can be defended.

However, that's where I draw the line. Trite statements like, "Rachel's smart! She's 50" are stupid but basically harmless. Statements like, "People on the right, in general, seem to just want to help themselves" are not only hurtful to the right _en masse_ but are born of true ignorance of the topic. 

Both of the above I would place in the uninformed category, unqualified opinions and both can be easily dealt with. Neither of them are defendable, neither carry any weight and neither will add to one's credibility. In the eyes of many, repeating such uninformed opinions reduce one's credibility.

Statements like, "Merkle's popularity has dropped 25% since the last election" is an example of an informed, a qualified opinion. 

It can be easily defended by comparing the number of votes between the two elections. It carries weight because of its factual basis & the continued use thereof will increase one's credibility.

Why do I bring up credibility?

One of the few currencies on these boards (any boards?) realistically worth anything is credibility. You defend (or at least attempt to defend) your position, your opinion, with facts, you've earned a certain amount of credibility and along with it, a certain amount of respect. 

You can't/don't/won't, you have none of either.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Rps said:


> Yes, but it is interesting about the reply on dogma, it has all the current political trappings. First take an emotionally charged topic, frame it as if a movement is supporting a contention, then place it in a distant area that by doing so somehow is a threat to “us”, all using unnamed sources as having the power to elicit an undesirable social change.....if this were the American Political Thread I would say it was right out of Trump’s playbook.


I see what you are getting at, unfortunately all things become political depending on who is speaking. Somethings can just be about practicality, general knowledge and introducing young people to the vast array of ideas are out there. 



Rps said:


> But back to the root ...the contention that a left driven authority is using its dogma to influence curricula......so the driver, which was not really answered, does dogma drive society or does society drive dogma remains a fair point to debate, all trolling aside. This “Hidden Curriculum” can not be cast aside....but is it generational or constantly evolving? That said, *what play does social media have on our view of education?*


Now that is a truly interesting question! I think it is somewhat like yin and yang. It can be good and it can be bad it is all a matter of how it is used and understood. Obviously there is a lot more to it than that, but it is a starting point.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

FeXL said:


> There's been a lot of talk about opinions on the boards lately. I'd like to wade into the fray with my opinion on opinions.
> 
> First off, I recognize two types of opinions: Informed & uninformed.
> 
> ...


Who exactly are you talking to and who made you the judge, jury and executioner?


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Everybody & nobody.



screature said:


> Who exactly are you talking to...


Who made you the judge, jury and executioner of the right?



screature said:


> ...who made you the judge, jury and executioner?


----------



## screature (May 14, 2007)

FeXL said:


> Everybody & nobody.
> 
> 
> 
> Who made you the judge, jury and executioner of the right?


Lest you forget, I support whoever seems reasonable to me. Last time it was someone on the right. But now I am critical of their policies. See politics to me is not like having a favorite team in whatever your sport of preference is, it is a lot more complicated than that. 

I am not a Conservative, Liberal, NDP, PQ or another anachronism or ism you may choose. I am who I am and do not and will not be defined upon who I vote for in a given election or by the ideas that I hold, because they cross many boundaries.* I* define myself, no one else does, they may have their opinions, but they are just that, opinions.

Capiche?


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

screature said:


> Lest you forget, I support whoever seems reasonable to me. Last time it was someone on the right. But now I am critical of their policies. See politics to me is not like having a favorite team in whatever your sport of preference is, it is a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Well said, Steve. The desire to pigeonhole people by something they said months or years ago is really quite silly. It is also possible to entertain multiple points of view at the same time.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Hi Steve, the issue I see with social media is might is right, which is not the same as truth. I see this all the time and it is sad really.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Rps said:


> Hi Steve, the issue I see with social media is might is right, which is not the same as truth. I see this all the time and it is sad really.



Like reality game shows, singing contests, and elections, popularity seems to dictate what's "the truth" too often today. If enough people declare something to be the truth, why then it must be the truth. Burn Dixie Chicks records for suggesting they were ashamed of Pres. Bush for starting a war using WMD's as a justification. You almost see the same thing happening today with North Korea. If enough people believe it, it must be true!


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

However Frank, we do know that North Korea is after an atomic arsenal....which was different than Iraq’s WMD.....which were never found. Getting back to curricula.....climate change would be a more current and valid issue in this case. Twitter, Instagram, FB all work up postings and doctored photographs...both pro and con....certainly will impact a student’s view and possibly be at variance to the instructor. Ranters chew up bandwidth and if they resonate gain followers which increase the likelihood that those rants become accepted as truth.....


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Rps said:


> However Frank, we do know that North Korea is after an atomic arsenal....which was different than Iraq’s WMD.....which were never found. Getting back to curricula.....climate change would be a more current and valid issue in this case. Twitter, Instagram, FB all work up postings and doctored photographs...both pro and con....certainly will impact a student’s view and possibly be at variance to the instructor. Ranters chew up bandwidth and if they resonate gain followers which increase the likelihood that those rants become accepted as truth.....


Still if you look at the history in the area and recent US actions in Iraq, Libya, Syria and Yemen then North Korea could well believe their only hope of survival is to acquire nuclear weapons and be prepared to use them.

We like to forget the terrible destruction that North (and South) Korea suffered during the Korean war. We ignore that the Korean cease fire has held for over 60 years. We also forget the news about North Korea comes from the very same sources that lied through their teeth about Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen and Bengazi.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Rps said:


> However Frank, we do know that North Korea is after an atomic arsenal....which was different than Iraq’s WMD.....which were never found. Getting back to curricula.....climate change would be a more current and valid issue in this case. Twitter, Instagram, FB all work up postings and doctored photographs...both pro and con....certainly will impact a student’s view and possibly be at variance to the instructor. Ranters chew up bandwidth and if they resonate gain followers which increase the likelihood that those rants become accepted as truth.....




Good examples. And with the hue and cry on both sides of the political spectrum about "fake news" today, including on this forum, it's difficult to know whom to trust anymore. We believe what we want to believe, or as Macfury calls it, confirmation bias. That is one thing I will agree with him about.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"I define myself, no one else does, they may have their opinions, but they are just that, opinions." An excellent point, Steve. Paix, mon ami.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Freddie_Biff said:


> Well said, Steve. The desire to pigeonhole people by something they said months or years ago is really quite silly. It is also possible to entertain multiple points of view at the same time.


A valid point, Rp. Personally, I am very liberal/progressive on most social issues, but have sided with fiscal conservatives on issues that I feel waste taxpayer's money.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Jeezuz... (for the third time)

This is what I'm talking about:



screature said:


> People on the right, in general, seem to just want to help themselves.


Now, same question: Who made you the judge, jury and executioner of the right?



screature said:


> Lest you forget...blah, blah-blah, blah, blah-blah-blah


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

It's actually pretty easy.



Freddie_Biff said:


> ...it's difficult to know whom to trust anymore.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Dr.G. said:


> A valid point, Rp. Personally, I am very liberal/progressive on most social issues, but have sided with fiscal conservatives on issues that I feel waste taxpayer's money.


With all due respect, it may be commonplace to do so, but this accusation of the Left as a bunch of free-wheeling spenders on whatever strikes their fancy is a complete fallacy. Conservative governments have been just as guilty of throwing bad money after good when the purpose suits them. The insane —and long ago discredited— ideology that cutting taxes - economic growth is a fine example. Cutting taxes in Canada has only resulted in higher profits and return to shareholders, as the economic growth that should conceivably result from freed-up cash for investment is, oddly enough, rarely invested. Left governments also are concerned for the value of taxpayer's money - and you can point to NDP balanced / surplus budgets as evidence as well as you can certain Conservative and Liberal budgets.

Interestingly, Conservative and some Liberal governments tend to immediately generate surpluses by cutting taxes while also cutting government spending on social programmes, education, health and infrastructure. But after a few years, this comes back to bite them in the ass as under-investment in human beings is not a rapidly elastic economic indicator. Left governments are often elected following economic disaster (see Nova Scotia's NDP election in 2009, following two PC governments) which they then were forced to address by following many of the Right-wing economic playbook (cutting gov't spending and some social services) in order to get the books back in some kind of order. That NDP government made a lot of boneheaded moves ("governed like Liberals" was the frequent comment), though it did make certain advances in the highly important health sector.

The problem with our democracy - most of them, one could generalize - is that voters have very short memories. The NDP screwed the pooch, and the Liberals promised the moon (the current Liberal government being among the most hated in NS history). This see-saw of disaster does nothing to move our province forward.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

CubaMark said:


> With all due respect, it may be commonplace to do so, but this accusation of the Left as a bunch of free-wheeling spenders on whatever strikes their fancy is a complete fallacy. Conservative governments have been just as guilty of throwing bad money after good when the purpose suits them. The insane —and long ago discredited— ideology that cutting taxes - economic growth is a fine example. Cutting taxes in Canada has only resulted in higher profits and return to shareholders, as the economic growth that should conceivably result from freed-up cash for investment is, oddly enough, rarely invested. Left governments also are concerned for the value of taxpayer's money - and you can point to NDP balanced / surplus budgets as evidence as well as you can certain Conservative and Liberal budgets.
> 
> Interestingly, Conservative and some Liberal governments tend to immediately generate surpluses by cutting taxes while also cutting government spending on social programmes, education, health and infrastructure. But after a few years, this comes back to bite them in the ass as under-investment in human beings is not a rapidly elastic economic indicator. Left governments are often elected following economic disaster (see Nova Scotia's NDP election in 2009, following two PC governments) which they then were forced to address by following many of the Right-wing economic playbook (cutting gov't spending and some social services) in order to get the books back in some kind of order. That NDP government made a lot of boneheaded moves ("governed like Liberals" was the frequent comment), though it did make certain advances in the highly important health sector.
> 
> The problem with our democracy - most of them, one could generalize - is that voters have very short memories. The NDP screwed the pooch, and the Liberals promised the moon (the current Liberal government being among the most hated in NS history). This see-saw of disaster does nothing to move our province forward.


Mark, I never said that the Left were "free spenders". I am opposed to spending that is needless, such as more and more and more weapons and hardware, when it could be spent on people who are in need.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Rps said:


> Hi Steve, *the issue I see with social media is might is right*, which is not the same as truth. I see this all the time and it is sad really.


Well there definitely is that, but sometimes it back fires when the "might" is supporting a fraudulent or "wrong/misguided cause". But then again it is just those online who decide, it is not democracy.

I think this is the big myth about the the internet, somehow it it democratic because anyone can say anything at any time. That is just a rabble of people spouting whatever crosses their minds. Democracy is a bout a system whereby the citizens of a given state can freely vote for who they chose to be their representative.

However the internet can be educational, if before people spout off and they do a little and maybe a lot of research online and dare I say go to the library to do some further research it can be a beneficial source of "information". Educationally the internet is what it is and as a free entity should always be so. It is up to individuals to do further research and filtering, beyond that I do not know what else there is to do other than enter into the dark realm of a controlled internet, which scares the hell out of me.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

screature said:


> Well there definitely is that, but sometimes it back fires when the "might" is supporting a fraudulent or "wrong/misguided cause". But then again it is just those online who decide, it is not democracy.
> 
> I think this is the big myth about the the internet, somehow it it democratic because anyone can say anything at any time. That is just a rabble of people spouting whatever crosses their minds. Democracy is a bout a system whereby the citizens of a given state can freely vote for who they chose to be their representative.
> 
> However the internet can be educational, if before people spout off and they do a little and maybe a lot of research online and dare I say go to the library to do some further research it can be a beneficial source of "information". Educationally the internet is what it is and as a free entity should always be so. It is up to individuals to do further research and filtering, beyond that I do not know what else there is to do other than enter into the dark realm of a controlled internet, which scares the hell out of me.


The trouble is where does one get honest unbiased information? I think the day will come that the internet will be controlled somehow.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Rps said:


> The trouble is where does one get honest unbiased information? I think the day will come that the internet will be controlled somehow.




I think the source of honest unbiased information needs to be agreed upon. The local news channels have always seemed unbiased to me, while someone with an alt-right perspective, like Ezra Levant, would call it left-wing prog brainwashing. Of course he would, just as I have a hard time taking his "news sources" seriously. Finding a source that all can regard as truly unbiased may pose a problem.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Hi Frank, Steve’s point, if I may, on the internet is interesting.....especially since history is constantly changing. Getting back to curricula and education...biased sources camouflaged as fair and balanced may pose a problem for designers and instructors if what is being delivered is at variance to the common belief either supported or slanted by social or other media. It’s been 20years and people still believe that the 9-11 perpetrators were let into the U.S. via Canada...thus we were responsible. When in fact most came directly to the U.S. from Saudi Arabia. To me, subjects which are media ripe such as history, civics, geography, language, culture would be prone to this dichotomy of facts.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Rps said:


> Hi Frank, Steve’s point, if I may, on the internet is interesting.....especially since history is constantly changing. Getting back to curricula and education...biased sources camouflaged as fair and balanced may pose a problem for designers and instructors if what is being delivered is at variance to the common belief either supported or slanted by social or other media. It’s been 20years and people still believe that the 9-11 perpetrators were let into the U.S. via Canada...thus we were responsible. When in fact most came directly to the U.S. from Saudi Arabia. To me, subjects which are media ripe such as history, civics, geography, language, culture would be prone to this dichotomy of facts.




And if you had polled the average American in the summer of 2003, there was no question that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction (and the Dixie Chicks should be boycotted). What I couldn't understand is if Iraq had WMD's, why on earth didn't they use them to defend themselves? 

What I learned from that 24 hour a day news coverage was that the truth could really be whatever you wanted it to be. There is no actual cold hard objectivity.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Rps said:


> Hi Frank, Steve’s point, if I may, on the internet is interesting.....especially since history is constantly changing. Getting back to curricula and education...biased sources camouflaged as fair and balanced may pose a problem for designers and instructors if what is being delivered is at variance to the common belief either supported or slanted by social or other media. It’s been 20years and people still believe that the 9-11 perpetrators were let into the U.S. via Canada...thus we were responsible. When in fact most came directly to the U.S. from Saudi Arabia. To me, subjects which are media ripe such as history, civics, geography, language, culture would be prone to this dichotomy of facts.


Only if you can ignore the blatantly obvious clues that 9-11 was an inside job. If you fail to achieve that level of ignorance then those Wahabi Saudis become conveniently dead patsies and a gentleman named Silverman, along with Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz suddenly look like prime candidates for lethal injections.

Worse than that it becomes glaringly obvious that millions in the Middle East have been killed, maimed and/or made homeless to satisfy the greed of the MIC.

IOW education should never be about getting the student to parrot the official view but rather trying to reason things out and sort fantasy from fiction.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

eMacMan said:


> Only if you can ignore the blatantly obvious clues that 9-11 was an inside job. If you fail to achieve that level of ignorance then those Wahabi Saudis become conveniently dead patsies and a gentleman named Silverman, along with Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz suddenly look like prime candidates for lethal injections.
> 
> Worse than that it becomes glaringly obvious that millions in the Middle East have been killed, maimed and/or made homeless to satisfy the greed of the MIC.
> 
> IOW education should never be about getting the student to parrot the official view but rather trying to reason things out and sort fantasy from fiction.


And thus the root of the problem......


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Rps said:


> The trouble is where does one get honest unbiased information?





Rps said:


> I think the day will come that the internet will be controlled somehow.


Agreed. It is impossible. It is all anecdotal or fabricated or sometimes the actual truth. The problem is in filtering out what "makes sense" and what doesn't and then that is only based on the biases of the researcher. It is the snake eating its tail. The victors and conspirators write the history books. When it comes to the history of the actions of mankind all we have is what we have been told and not told that maybe lurks in the shadows. Everyone has their own opinion based on the "facts" that they believe to be the facts and then there are the conspiracy theorists who believe what they think lurks in the shadows.

That is what makes it such great fun!!! 

Then we will truly be living in an Orwellian world. Like I said, it scares the hell out of me.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

*Mr. Pitt*

I have written about this in other threads but it is very pertinent to this thread especially.

When I was in grade 8 I had a "religion" teacher named Mr. Pitt. He was one of the kindest and wisest men I have ever known until this day.

He taught his students what is to me one of the most important lessons you can learn at a very early age and made it into a game so that you would remember and I still do.

He wrote a "saying" on the chalkboard that we all had to write down, then we had two days (Religion class was only twice a week) to practice saying it out loud as fast we could with every would still being intelligible. 

Everyone had to participate and go to the front to the class to say it as fast as they could while he ran a stop watch, so everyone wanted to win. But the winning of being the fastest was not the point. The point was that in performing the exercise of saying it over and over again out loud, it would stick with you even if you didn't understand it at the time, which was the case with me and I am sure with many of his other students.

The saying goes like this this:

When I hear I forget,
When I see I remember,
But when I begin to think, act and experience,
Then I understand.

42 years later and I still remember because of his great pedagogical technique and the wisdom that the saying contained. It conveys so much more about the condition of living on this planet as a human being than the simple, humble words say alone.

To me this is an example of great teaching and what should be at the heart of education.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Steve, yes it is a great lesson...thanx for sharing!


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

screature said:


> I have written about this in other threads but it is very pertinent to this thread especially.
> 
> When I was in grade 8 I had a "religion" teacher named Mr. Pitt. He was one of the kindest and wisest men I have ever known until this day.
> 
> ...


Sounds like he was a fine teacher, Steve. :clap::clap:


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Rps said:


> Steve, yes it is a great lesson...thanx for sharing!





Dr.G. said:


> Sounds like he was a fine teacher, Steve. :clap::clap:


Sadly he died two years later from a massive heart attack on the 3rd floor of the High School with teachers and students watching. I thank god I was not there to see it, it broke my heart enough as it was.

The lesson for teaching is this, do not give students information alone. Give them something to think about, even at a young age, the younger the better.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

screature said:


> Sadly he died two years later from a massive heart attack on the 3rd floor of the High School with teachers and students watching. I thank god I was not there to see it, it broke my heart enough as it was.
> 
> The lesson for teaching is this, do not give students information alone. Give them something to think about, even at a young age, the younger the better.


Sad to hear of his death, Steve.

Still, what you said about "the lesson for teaching" is very true. Paix, mon ami.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Dr.G. said:


> Sad to hear of his death, Steve.
> 
> Still, what you said about "the lesson for teaching" is very true. Paix, mon ami.


Thank you Marc, I think about him and his teachings very frequently... There are not many teachers/professors that I can say that about.

All that being said I have a question. In terms of education what should the public at large be paying for, regardless of the level of education?

For those that are interested what policies do you propose or advocate to advance "higher learning", i.e., university, college, trade schools, etc.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

screature said:


> Thank you Marc, I think about him and his teachings very frequently... There are not many teachers/professors that I can say that about.
> 
> All that being said I have a question. In terms of education what should the public at large be paying for, regardless of the level of education?
> 
> For those that are interested what policies do you propose or advocate to advance "higher learning", i.e., university, college, trade schools, etc.


"There are not many teachers/professors that I can say that about." All too true for most of us, Steve.

Personally, I feel that the public at large should be responsible for a quality pre-school to high school education for all.

"Happiness is not a matter of intensity but of balance and order and rhythm and harmony." Thomas Merton


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Dr.G. said:


> "There are not many teachers/professors that I can say that about." All too true for most of us, Steve.
> 
> Personally, I feel that the public at large should be responsible for a quality pre-school to high school education for all.
> 
> *"Happiness is not a matter of intensity but of balance and order and rhythm and harmony."* Thomas Merton


Thank you Marc for your comments.

That is why, contrary to many Western views, I do not believe in happiness as a pursuit. Happiness is an excited state, one that is fleeting. Happiness is IMO equivalent to joy, which is also fleeting. They are both definitely desirable, but they are unsustainable (physics always tends toward a sate of equilibrium).

Contentment is what I seek and thus far have failed miserably to achieve. There are moments when I feel content, but with this over saturated "happiness" machine that we all live in, it is hard to maintain. Living in this modern environment and remaining content takes extreme effort, concentration and mediation. I am not there yet. Sometimes I think the only answer is to go totally off grid, sometimes due to my depression, I think **** it.

I am not quite there yet, I continue to struggle for myself and my family as I know ending my suffering increases theirs. So I struggle on.

So what does this have to do with education?!! A lot! Especially in grade and high school and now with "social" media it makes it worse. These kinds of issues develop over time and 
become exacerbated with social media. I know this sounds harsh but I wish Mark Zuckerberg was never born. Facebook is a pariah as is basically all social networking online.

I know many others will disagree, but the world was a better place before "online social networking"


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

screature said:


> Thank you Marc for your comments.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I gotta disagree you on the Facebook thing. As a fifty something Canadian man, I find FB is a great way to stay connected to friends and family, not to mention advertise gigs, without all the social bullying that the younger generation may have to deal with. For me, it's almost the perfect means of communication, as little or as much as I want, with whomever I prefer. Outlawing Facebook would be like outlawing the telephone. I guess your mileage with FB may vary.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

screature said:


> Thank you Marc for your comments.
> 
> That is why, contrary to many Western views, I do not believe in happiness as a pursuit. Happiness is an excited state, one that is fleeting. Happiness is IMO equivalent to joy, which is also fleeting. They are both definitely desirable, but they are unsustainable (physics always tends toward a sate of equilibrium).
> 
> ...


I tend to agree with you on Facebook. I don't find it distressing but rather terribly frivolous. It is somewhat useful for staying in touch with people who have similar interests, but otherwise I tend to avoid it altogether.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Freddie_Biff said:


> I gotta disagree you on the Facebook thing. As a fifty something Canadian man, I find FB is a great way to stay connected to friends and family, not to mention advertise gigs, without all the social bullying that the younger generation may have to deal with. For me, it's almost the perfect means of communication, as little or as much as I want, with whomever I prefer. Outlawing Facebook would be like outlawing the telephone. I guess your mileage with FB may vary.


I am not in no way suggesting the elimination of Facebook. It is here and so shall it stay as long as people continue to use it.... It is a matter of yin and yang.. Some people use it benevolently, others use it to attack other people, suicides have been committed becuase of Facebook. This is without doubt, it is factual and has been well documented in the media and the law.

For people who use Facebook benevolently no problem , but there are tons of others who use it to post hate and venom, it would not be so bad, if it were a site like ehMac where there are very few watching and paying attention, But not on Facebook, their are millions upon million paying attention. ISIIS used Facebook to recruit supporters, time and time again. How is that a good thing?

So like most things Facebook could be used for good or for bad. But if it didn't exist in the first place we would not be be having this discussion.

I think that all Zuckerberg wanted was to be the first to create something like this and make millions and billions by doing so. I don't think it even crossed his childish brain how his development could adversely affect the world, and even if it did he said to himself "**** it, I don't care".


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

I think all Zuckerberg was interested in was a cheap way to check out all the babes on campus. He had no idea it would take off so well and be used for grandparents to see pics of their grandkids. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Freddie_Biff said:


> I think all Zuckerberg was interested in was a cheap way to check out all the babes on campus. He had no idea it would take off so well and be used for grandparents to see pics of their grandkids.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I appreciate the witty reply. But all you have to do is look at his wife and if what you say were true, at least physically, he could done much better. Plus he married her only once he was a billionaire, So I don't think your argument holds much water.

He is an egotist and always has been one. He does not care one way or the how Facebook is used, just so long as the dollars keep rolling in... He has no ethics, no morality or common decency. I don't know if you watch the "Black List" but he should be on it. I think when he started he was benevolent, but since the ugly **** that has occurred to his creation hs does not give a rat's ass.... " that is not me it is just how people choose to use it".

Sounds like a gun manufacturer doesn't it. F**K that the guy is no dummy (or maybe he is).

If he, had any sense at all he could have imagined how his creation could be used for evil.

But like I said, it didn't even cross his mind and didn't care, all he wanted was the dollars and the self glorification, which he received in spades. Why? because lots of folks will use it simply to contact others, which I do not understand because e-mail and texting already exists. His intentions were far from altruistic, all he wanted was to be the first and make a lot money from from it. Period. He achieved that and the world still suffers from it to this day.

I don't know if any of you here watch "The Blacklist", but Zuckerberg would be on mine.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

I appreciate the witty reply. But all you have to do is look at his wife and if what you say were true, at least physically, he could done much better. Plus he married her only once he was a billionaire, So I don't think your argument holds much water.

He is an egotist and always has been one. He does not care one way or the how Facebook is used, just so long as the dollars keep rolling in... He has no ethics, no morality or common decency. I don't know if you watch the "Black List" but he should be on it. I think when he started he was benevolent, but since the ugly **** that has occurred to his creation hs does not give a rat's ass.... " that is not me it is just how people choose to use it".

Sounds like a gun manufacturer doesn't it. F**K that the guy is no dummy (or maybe he is).

If he had any sense at all he could have imagined how his creation could be used for evil.

But like I said before, it didn't even cross his mind and didn't care, all he wanted was the dollars and the self glorification, which he received in spades. Why? because lots of folks will use it simply to contact others, which I do not understand because e-mail and texting already exists. His intentions were far from altruistic, all he wanted was to be the first and make a lot money from from it. Period. He achieved that and the world still suffers from it to this day.

I don't know if any of you here watch "The Blacklist", but Zuckerberg would be on mine. It is a great show well worth watching.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Nice - the final question posed was worth the wait.*

*Betsy DeVos faces absolutely stunning 'silent' protest at Harvard*

While Trump’s swamp-addled Education Secretary Betsy DeVos tried to speak at Harvard University to sell her special privatization of public school branding “school choice,” she found herself the subject of an incredibly powerful and well orchestrated “silent” protest. Silently standing up as the DeVos speech got under way was one young woman, holding up a sheet with “White Supremacist” emblazoned in red on it. Then another young man stood up silently with a sign reading “Our Students Are Not 4 Sale!” As security tried move protestors along by speaking to them, more and more students unfurled signs saying “Protect Survivors’ Rights,” “Our Harvard Can Do Better,” “Reclaiming My Democracy,” and “Dark Money,”...

* * *​
...during a question and answer section one student asked one of those questions you wish a senator or a reporter might ask.

_*Student:* So, You’re a billionaire with lots and lots of investments, and the so-called “school choice” movement is a way to open the floodgates for corporate interests to make money off the backs of students. How much do you expect your net worth to increase as a result of your policy choices and what are your friends on Wall Street and in the business world—like the Koch brothers—saying about the potential to get rich off the backs of students?_​
(DailyKOS)​


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

I think of Facebook much like I think of the telephone; it's a tool, and can be used for great good, depending on who's using it. My perception of it is certainly positive for the most part. It's better than e-mail or texting because you can broadcast to a large audience all at once. Mind you, I haven't experienced Facebook bullying, so there's that. I imagine there are thousands of potentials avenues for misuse of social media, including this here little forum at times. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Freddie_Biff said:


> I think of Facebook much like I think of the telephone; it's a tool, and can be used for great good, depending on who's using it. My perception of it is certainly positive for the most part. It's better than e-mail or texting *because you can broadcast to a large audience all at once.* Mind you, I haven't experienced Facebook bullying, so there's that. I imagine there are thousands of potentials avenues for misuse of social media, including this here little forum at times.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I guess that is the problem for me. I like my privacy and do not need the whole world to know my business. Using e-mail you can easily create distribution lists that can go out out to even thousands of recipients, the rest of world is excluded.

I don't need Joe Blow to know that I had bowel surgery a day ago and I would rather Joe Blow didn't know.

The other thing that I hate about Facebook is "friend" requests from people who I don't even know, they come in by the hundreds. It seems like there is some internal game or race on Facebook to see who has the most "friends", I also find that distasteful and an intrusion on my privacy. The only reason they can contact me is because I have a Facebook account (which is only used in a very limited manner by myself, maybe 3 -4 posts a year), so it amount's to SPAM. I didn't ask for them to contact me but yet they do in the hundreds over a year. IMO Facebook has become a free for all of unwanted unsolicited e-mails, notifications and solicitations. The only reason why I maintain my account is because in order to reply to some sites you have to have an account... I wonder what that is all about, not really I know.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

screature said:


> I guess that is the problem for me. I like my privacy and do not need the whole world to know my business. Using e-mail you can easily create distribution lists that can go out out to even thousands of recipients, the rest of world is excluded.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I guess we each use it for very different reasons then. To each their own.


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## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

screature said:


> I guess that is the problem for me. I like my privacy and do not need the whole world to know my business. Using e-mail you can easily create distribution lists that can go out out to even thousands of recipients, the rest of world is excluded.
> 
> I don't need Joe Blow to know that I had bowel surgery a day ago and I would rather Joe Blow didn't know.
> 
> The other thing that I hate about Facebook is "friend" requests from people who I don't even know, they come in by the hundreds. It seems like there is some internal game or race on Facebook to see who has the most "friends", I also find that distasteful and an intrusion on my privacy. The only reason they can contact me is because I have a Facebook account (which is only used in a very limited manner by myself, maybe 3 -4 posts a year), so it amount's to SPAM. I didn't ask for them to contact me but yet they do in the hundreds over a year. IMO Facebook has become a free for all of unwanted unsolicited e-mails, notifications and solicitations. The only reason why I maintain my account is because in order to reply to some sites you have to have an account... I wonder what that is all about, not really I know.


I am not a fan of the whole "social" stuff that seems to be everywhere these days. No Facebook, no twitter, none of it. I recently bought a fitbit watch to keep track of exercise and was shocked to start getting emails from people I know asking to be friends on the fitbit social network. I looked through and found a privacy setting and turned it on. I still go emails about adding friends and I inquired about this to fitbit and was told you cannot turn off the social and that I could not make my account completely invisible.

Social media has people down in their phones everywhere. Sitting in a restaurant and everyone is looking down at their phones rather then being social with real live people in the moment. It seems there is something addictive to it, not sure what it is but rarely do I see someone walking down the street who does not have their phone up. Even concerts, rather then enjoy and be in that moment people are trying to capture it on their phone. Personally I think it is sad. Social media is not for me, though I am sure it has some good parts if used well, I would take a guess and say most do not.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

wonderings said:


> I am not a fan of the whole "social" stuff that seems to be everywhere these days. No Facebook, no twitter, none of it. I recently bought a fitbit watch to keep track of exercise and was shocked to start getting emails from people I know asking to be friends on the fitbit social network. I looked through and found a privacy setting and turned it on. I still go emails about adding friends and I inquired about this to fitbit and was told you cannot turn off the social and that I could not make my account completely invisible.
> 
> 
> 
> Social media has people down in their phones everywhere. Sitting in a restaurant and everyone is looking down at their phones rather then being social with real live people in the moment. It seems there is something addictive to it, not sure what it is but rarely do I see someone walking down the street who does not have their phone up. Even concerts, rather then enjoy and be in that moment people are trying to capture it on their phone. Personally I think it is sad. Social media is not for me, though I am sure it has some good parts if used well, I would take a guess and say most do not.




The irony is that you just used social media—the ehMac forum site—to communicate this message. Perhaps it is some particular forms of social media you dislike while embracing others.

This wheel shows some of the thousands of social media avenues available to people today.









http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/social-media


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

Freddie_Biff said:


> The irony is that you just used social media—the ehMac forum site—to communicate this message. Perhaps it is some particular forms of social media you dislike while embracing others.
> 
> This wheel shows some of the thousands of social media avenues available to people today.
> 
> ...


The difference being ehmac.ca does not go out and try and find my friends and connect them to me here. I had a fake Facebook account, curious how it operated. I did not use it to add friends or communicate in anyway, it was simply curiosity. Using fake information Facebook quickly tried to connect me with people I may know. Not sure how I may know them or why they all seemed to be of Ethiopian heritage (location was set in Ontario, small rural town). 

Again using fitbit as the example, it tries to connect people with others who may know them and it seems I have no option to remain private in that regard. I generally use forums as a tool for gathering information or help with an issue. My privacy is again up to me on how much I want to divulge. So yes, I suppose I am not completely against social media.


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

wonderings said:


> The difference being ehmac.ca does not go out and try and find my friends and connect them to me here. I had a fake Facebook account, curious how it operated. I did not use it to add friends or communicate in anyway, it was simply curiosity. Using fake information Facebook quickly tried to connect me with people I may know. Not sure how I may know them or why they all seemed to be of Ethiopian heritage (location was set in Ontario, small rural town).
> 
> 
> 
> Again using fitbit as the example, it tries to connect people with others who may know them and it seems I have no option to remain private in that regard. I generally use forums as a tool for gathering information or help with an issue. My privacy is again up to me on how much I want to divulge. So yes, I suppose I am not completely against social media.



I think I see what you're saying. Some forms of social media can certainly be more insidious and obtrusive than others.


----------



## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

CubaMark said:


> she found herself the subject of an incredibly powerful and well orchestrated “silent” protest.


I watched the video, and this is not what it was billed to be. More quality journalism from someone who critiques other ehmacer's questionable preferred links.

And then the crowd started chanting, "That's what white supremacy looks like." Really made their point. People who disagree with the protesters are white supremacists. Don't think about her statements because...? 

The silent protest was, at least, better than the non-silent version.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Beej said:


> I watched the video, and this is not what it was billed to be. More quality journalism from someone who critiques other ehmacer's questionable preferred links.


Please explain. The protest was silent for the duration of her speech for the most part (there was one vocal remark made when DeVos asked a rhetorical question) until the Q&A session began. Unless I'm mistaken, the linked clip was not the entirety of DeVos' remarks.



> And then the crowd started chanting, "That's what white supremacy looks like." Really made their point. People who disagree with the protesters are white supremacists. Don't think about her statements because...?


I'm not tuned into all the issues surrounding DeVos, so I don't know the basis for the white supremacy dig. But that was one sign... there were many others that protested, for example, DeVos' rollback of protections for victims of rape and her funding (1/4 of a $Billion) to expand charter schools. Picking out one sign out of many is also an exhibition of bias, Beej.

And since we're on the topic of DeVos' efforts to decimate public schooling in favour of a market system in which the rich can build great schools for their kids (and their kids alone) and the poor folk will - I dunno, hold reading, riting and rithmatick classes under an overpass somewhere, the results of DeVos favoured path to edumakashun ain't all roses:

*For-Profit Schools Get State Dollars For Dropouts Who Rarely Drop In*

COLUMBUS, Ohio — Last school year, Ohio’s cash-strapped education department paid Capital High $1.4 million in taxpayer dollars to teach students on the verge of dropping out. But on a Thursday in May, students’ workstations in the storefront charter school run by for-profit EdisonLearning resembled place settings for a dinner party where most guests never arrived.

In one room, empty chairs faced 25 blank computer monitors. Just three students sat in a science lab down the hall, and nine more in an unlit classroom, including one youth who sprawled out, head down, sleeping.

Only three of the more than 170 students on Capital’s rolls attended class the required five hours that day, records obtained by ProPublica show. Almost two-thirds of the school’s students never showed up; others left early. Nearly a third of the roster failed to attend class all week.

Some stay away even longer. ProPublica reviewed 38 days of Capital High’s records from late March to late May and found six students skipped 22 or more days straight with no excused absences. Two were gone the entire 38-day period. Under state rules, Capital should have unenrolled them after 21 consecutive unexcused absences.

Though the school is largely funded on a per-student basis, the no-shows didn’t hurt the school’s revenue stream. Capital billed and received payment from the state for teaching the equivalent of 171 students full time in May.

U.S. Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos has championed charters and for-profit education, contending in congressional testimony that school choice can lower absenteeism and dropout rates. But at schools like Capital, a ProPublica-USA Today investigation found, the drop-outs rarely drop in — and if they do, they don’t stay long.
(ProPublica)​


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

_Every_ school gets dollars for students who don't show up!


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Macfury said:


> _Every_ school gets dollars for students who don't show up!


Cute, flippant remark. 

Now try reading the article in depth, and comment on the actual issues at hand.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

That was the issue YOU selected by picking an article titled:



> For-Profit Schools Get State Dollars For Dropouts Who Rarely Drop In


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

For my part, putting DeVos in charge of public education is like giving Jack the Ripper an Avon route.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Rps said:


> For my part, putting DeVos in charge of public education is like giving Jack the Ripper an Avon route.


Sad, but all too true, Rp. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

No-calculator math test reveals weak mental math among Alberta students



> Grade 6 students did poorly on a new no-calculator portion of provincial mathematics exams, Alberta’s education minister said Tuesday.
> 
> Last fall, concerned about children’s grasp of math fundamentals, David Eggen introduced a new 15-minute, 15-question section to the math exam written by all sixth graders across the province.
> 
> “And there it was. Boom. Big place for room for improvement for basic skills,” Eggen said Tuesday after the education ministry released its 2016-17 provincial exam results.


So, coupla observations.

1) "Boom". Ain't rocket surgery, Davey-boy. Take away the requirement in the curriculum for memorizing times tables & mental math is going to take a hit. Didn't need to throw 15 mins of mental math into 6th grade PAT's (and all the costs associated with it) to figger that one out, Captain Obvious. All you had to do was ask a few math teachers. You know, the ones who are actually in the trenches & not driving a desk in Emonchuk? Now you think yer some kinda hero? Leave it to a Prog...

2) Good news is that many teachers (not limited to but including my lovely bride) continued to teach the memorization of times tables despite the fact that they were pulled from the curriculum. Curious, her school almost always tests above the provincial average in math. You go, babe.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

At least Jethro Bodine knew ciphering.



FeXL said:


> No-calculator math test reveals weak mental math among Alberta students
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

FeXL said:


> No-calculator math test reveals weak mental math among Alberta students
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just so we're clear, it was not Eggen's people that took away the timestable learning part of the curriculum; you can thank your PC government of the previous 44 years for that. Why do you think the NDP feel it's time to rewrite the curriculum? With a ton of teachers at the helm? You're criticizing the wrong people.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Just so we're clear, nobody said it was. The PC's screwed up portions of curriculum rewrites regularly. As do all gov'ts. I expect the same from the En Dee Pee. Perhaps _especially_ from the En Dee Pee



Freddie_Biff said:


> Just so we're clear, it was not Eggen's people that took away the timestable learning part of the curriculum; you can thank your PC government of the previous 44 years for that.


I have no idea. Trying to justify their jobs? Time to insert more social justice issues? Correct the global warming narrative?



Freddie_Biff said:


> Why do you think the NDP feel it's time to rewrite the curriculum?


I have no idea what you mean by this. 



Freddie_Biff said:


> With a ton of teachers at the helm?


No, I'm not. I've known for years (since the last math curriculum rewrite) that not learning times tables by rote was going to end poorly. I'm something short of a genius but I didn't need 2-1/2 years and a stinking PAT test to confirm the obvious.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You're criticizing the wrong people.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

It was in the education thread, not the Alberta NDP thread.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Just so we're clear, it was not Eggen's people that took away the timestable learning part of the curriculum; you can thank your PC government of the previous 44 years for that. Why do you think the NDP feel it's time to rewrite the curriculum? With a ton of teachers at the helm? You're criticizing the wrong people.


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Something to educate yourself about: do not mix LED bulbs with incandescents in light fixtures. LED's can't take the heat.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Ouch!


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Macfury said:


> Ouch!




Now I know why those EZ-Bake ovens could bake a cake with a 60w bulb.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Killer Devil's Food--just not a lot of it.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Baltimore, MD. Isn't that another Dem stronghold?

'Magine that...

Grade-Rigging Scandal Escalates: Baltimore Schools CEO Issue Memo In Response To Investigations



> In recent times, we have covered a grade-rigging scandal in Baltimore, Maryland that is worth paying attention to. Baltimore City Schools could be on the verge of gaining national attention, as the prime example of America’s broken education system.
> 
> Project Baltimore, an investigative reporting initiative, by Sinclair Broadcast Group Inc, the largest U.S. broadcaster, has led the charge via lead investigator Chris Papst in uncovering evidence, which suggests Baltimore City school officials are running a grade manipulation scheme in the public school system.
> 
> In a report from August, Chris Papst’s team uncovered documents suggesting one school in Baltimore has the highest graduation rate in the area with zero students proficient in math. Throughout 2017, Project Baltimore has made the case with evidence—- grade manipulation is widespread.


Questions, questions...



> How can a *high school with zero students proficient in math have the highest graduation rate?*


Links' bold.

h/t SDA, from whence comes this dripping sarcasm:



> How? Because, such a school wouldn't even understand the mathematical concept of rate.


Nails it...

Related (and further on Barry's legacy):

Bill Gates Tacitly Admits His Common Core Experiment Was A Failure



> It looks like this is as close to an apology or admission of failure as we're going to get, folks. Sorry about that $4 trillion and mangled years of education for American K-12 kids and teachers.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

I think you will find that grade fixing is in every state and has little to do with whether that state is represented by a donkey or an elephant.....that said many are run by asses!


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Rps said:


> I think you will find that grade fixing is in every state and has little to do with whether that state is represented by a donkey or an elephant.....that said many are run by asses!


Perhaps. In this particular case we are talking about a _city_ which has been under the stranglehold of the Dems for decades. Along with the poor quality education (and associated lies), they rank high in deaths due to firearms and black poverty. There _is_ a correlation...

If you have any articles relating to significant grade fixing in historically Rep controlled centres, I'd be more than happy to read them...


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

FeXL, here’s one...Ann Arbor Schools won't hold back struggling 3rd grade readers | MLive.com. You may know this but Ann Arbor is also where the University of Michigan is housed.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

How about this one.....CHARTER SCHOOL SCANDALS: ASPIRA, Inc. of Illinois. to be fair New York had a large case recently. The fact is it is everywhere.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Thx for the links.

Couldn't find anything in the first link about grade fixing. Don't know if Ann Arbor is Dem or Rep.

Pertaining to the second link, Chicago is very Dem. As with Baltimore, high on list of gun deaths & black poverty.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Ann Arbor run by Dems since 2000.



FeXL said:


> Thx for the links.
> 
> Couldn't find anything in the first link about grade fixing. Don't know if Ann Arbor is Dem or Rep.
> 
> Pertaining to the second link, Chicago is very Dem. As with Baltimore, high on list of gun deaths & black poverty.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> Ann Arbor run by Dems since 2000.


Maybe but Michigan is Republican and has been for a long time.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Rps said:


> Maybe but Michigan is Republican and has been for a long time.


School board.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Rps said:


> Maybe but Michigan is Republican and has been for a long time.


I'm talking cities specifically.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

FeXL said:


> I'm talking cities specifically.


FeXL, some interesting reading, and I’m sure we have the same here.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-most-student-loan-fraud-claims-involve-for-profits/


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Rps said:


> FeXL, some interesting reading, and I’m sure we have the same here.


Thx for the link. I gave it a quick scan but don't have time to get to the meat & potatoes right now. Get back to you.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

_Well... that's quite a decision to take for a Liberal government, eh?_

*Wynne government announces legislation to end college strike*

Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne's office said Thursday her government will table legislation that will end the province's college strike, after negotiations reached an impasse.

Wynne met with both the Ontario Public Service Employees Union (OPSEU) and the College Employer Council (CEC) on Thursday after union members overwhelming voted against a contract offer.

"I asked them to work together to find a path forward that would see students return to class by Monday," Wynne said in the release.

"That's why we are immediately tabling legislation that would end the dispute and return Ontario college students to the classroom where they belong. Under the proposed legislation that we're introducing today, all outstanding issues would be referred to binding mediation-arbitration."

Wynne urged both parties to unanimously support the legislation, in order to get students and faculty back to class on Monday morning.

"We have said repeatedly that students have been in the middle of this strike for too long and it is not fair. We need to get them back to the classroom."

(CBC)​


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Always see this behaviour from the left in Ontario when their re-election chances are diving into the toilet.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Rps said:


> FeXL, some interesting reading, and I’m sure we have the same here.


Sorry, this got lost somewhere along the line.

Was a good read. Very unfortunate that it's the for-profit schools that are responsible for the lion's share of the fraud.

Seeing as education is a state controlled institution, I'm still not convinced that there needs to be a federal Education Secretary. However, if one pushes the point, perhaps this is one situation where the position can be justified.

As to the two regs that have been eliminated, I don't know what they were & whether they were effective or not.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Further on the Baltimore black student graduation debacle.

Black self-sabotage



> The educational achievement of white youngsters is nothing to write home about, but that achieved by blacks is nothing less than disgraceful.
> 
> Let’s look at a recent example of an educational outcome all too common. In 2016, in 13 of Baltimore’s 39 high schools, not a single student scored proficient on the state’s mathematics exam. In six other high schools, only 1% tested proficient in math. In raw numbers, 3,804 Baltimore students took the state’s math test, and 14 tested proficient. Citywide, only 15% of Baltimore students passed the state’s English test.
> 
> *Last spring, graduation exercises were held at one Baltimore high school, 90% of whose students received the lowest possible math score. Just one student came even close to being proficient. Parents and family members applauded the conferring of diplomas. Some of the students won achievement awards and college scholarships.*


M'bold.

Whose zoomin' whom, here?

Much the same as undergraduates being allowed on stage with graduating students here, it's not the diploma that's important. It's the process. No one is excluded & participation trophies for all...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

I think it's fabulous. Reap what ya sow...

Almost Every Graduate Of DC High School Was Truant, Yet All Of Them Were Accepted To College



> The majority of graduating students at a Washington, D.C. high school did not attend more than six weeks of high school, but still managed to get into college, an investigation into the students’ records found.


More:



> Almost half of the graduates had unexcused absences that totaled to more than three months of missed school, documents obtained by NPR and WAMU reveal. About 20 percent of the high school graduates were absent more times than they were present for classes, emails and records also show.
> 
> The District of Columbia Public Schools system policy states that students who misses a class more than 30 times should fail that class, according to WAMU.


Rhetorical question for all you edumacators out there: How do you miss a class 30 or more times & still manage a passing grade...

Further:



> Some teachers who spoke to the outlet said they felt they had to graduate failing students due to pressure from the high school administration. Other teachers said the lack of expectations allowed students to do what they wanted and not show up for class.
> 
> *“This is [the] biggest way to keep a community down. To graduate students who aren’t qualified, send them off to college unprepared, so they return to the community to continue the cycle,” the teacher said.*


M'bold.


----------



## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Having glimpsed portions of what purports to be modern math, I can easily comprehend the abysmal results on those standardized tests. Some of the blame is with the curriculum design.

Hell if my total at the checkout is $6.10 a young checkout girl will look completely bewildered when I give her a 10 a loonie and a dime, and then amazed when the change works out to a fiver. Worse than that she'll have no clue how I have that amount already in my hand when the tells me what the total is, even if it is a single non-taxable item I am purchasing.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

What Betsy DeVos Is Up Against



> _The U.S. Department of Education employs 4,400 people and has a current budget of $70 billion. How many children does the department actually educate? I am sure the round number approaches zero. I've had a few opportunities to ask liberal audiences aghast at Trump's appointment of Betsy DeVos and alarmed at proposed budget cuts for the department to name one single thing a past secretary of education or the department has done that has had a meaningful effect on public education, and I can hear the crickets chirping while I await a response. I sometimes offer, "What about No Child Left Behind"? Most people on the left hate it (because it involved standards and testing), even though they can't say very much about why (because it is an embarrassment to oppose standards and testing openly). . . _​


Nails it.

The irony for me is that if DeVos is successful, she will have eliminated the need for her position.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

FeXL said:


> The irony for me is that if DeVos is successful, she will have eliminated the need for her position.


Canada has no federal education ministry either. I have always backed DeVos not as an expert in education, but as an expert in getting the federal government out of it.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Huh. Things you learn by reading the Intertoods...

What Left-Wing Educators Don't Teach During 'Black History Month'



> Do our left-wing educators, during Black History Month, note that President Franklin Delano Roosevelt's celebrated New Deal actually _hurt_ blacks? According to Cato Institute's Jim Powell, blacks lost as many as 500,000 jobs as a result of anti-competitive, job-killing regulations of the New Deal. Powell writes: "The flagship of the New Deal was the National Industrial Recovery Act, passed in June 1933. It authorized the president to issue executive orders establishing some 700 industrial cartels, which restricted output and forced wages and prices above market levels. The minimum wage regulations made it illegal for employers to hire people who weren't worth the minimum because they lacked skills. As a result, some 500,000 blacks, particularly in the South, were estimated to have lost their jobs. Marginal workers, like unskilled blacks, desperately needed an expanding economy to create more jobs. Yet New Deal policies made it harder for employers to hire people. FDR tripled federal taxes between 1933 and 1940. ... By giving labor unions the monopoly power to exclusively represent employees in a workplace, the (1935) Wagner Act had the effect of excluding blacks, since the dominant unions discriminated against blacks."


And I was under the impression that the New Deal was the next best thing to sliced bread!

More:



> Are students taught that gun control, widely embraced by today's black leadership, began as a means to deny free blacks the right to own guns? In ruling that blacks were chattel property in the Dred Scott case, Supreme Court Chief Justice Roger Taney warned of that the consequences of ruling otherwise would mean that blacks would be able to own guns. If blacks were "entitled to the privileges and immunities of citizens," said Taney, "it would give persons of the ***** race, who were recognized as citizens in any one state of the union, the right ... to keep and carry arms wherever they went ... endangering the peace and safety of the state."


Excellent read.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

The Higher Ed Crack Up Begins



> I’ve been predicting, most recently in a lecture last month at Arizona State University that I’ll post up as a podcast at some point soon, that universities would soon begin to divide into two entities—the STEM fields and related practical subjects (i.e., business and economics), and the social sciences and humanities, which would start to shrivel under the weight of the degradations the left has inflicted over the last 40 years. *The number of students majoring in the humanities has declined by two-thirds since around 1980.*


Bold mine.

Can't imagine why. No jobs. Low pay if you do manage to find one in your field. Filled with Progs, Fruit Loops, Whackos & SJW's (but I repeat myself). 'Bout covers it.

'Sides, sounds more like a feature than a bug, no?


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

FeXL said:


> The Higher Ed Crack Up Begins
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't suppose you've ever considered yourself to have a bigoted viewpoint, yes?


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Precisely what part of my post gives you the impression that I'm bigoted?

Be specific.



Freddie_Biff said:


> I don't suppose you've ever considered yourself to have a bigoted viewpoint, yes?


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

FeXL said:


> Precisely what part of my post gives you the impression that I'm bigoted?
> 
> 
> 
> Be specific.




"Progs, Fruit Loops, Whackos..." need I go on? Pretty much everything you post reeks of bigotry. Whatever floats your boat, I guess.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Bigot, huh? Intolerant of differing creeds, beliefs & opinions. Hmmm...

Tell ya what Freddie. Next time you go walking past that hallway mirror, stop, take a look in it & ask yourself how tolerant _you_ are of non-Prog creeds, beliefs & opinions. Then, shoot CM a PM and ask him the same question. Don't bother reporting back, I already know the answer. This is for _your_ benefit.

As to your accusation, no. I'm intolerant of anybody who cannot _defend_ their particular creeds, beliefs & opinions with facts. Cold, hard, data, Mr. Freddie. That's the currency. Anything short of that is just more bull$h!t and, lawdy, we's got enough of that. Far too many people here, social media and all three levels of gov't (among others) who deal in science fiction instead of fact.

That more Progs (and Fruit Loops, Whackos & SJW's) find it difficult to defend their position with facts is simply a matter of an inborn shortfall in their particular belief system. Not my problem.

You have yourself a great day, Freddie. Oh, and, I think that mirror has a few dust spots and fingerprints on it... 



Freddie_Biff said:


> "Progs, Fruit Loops, Whackos..." need I go on? Pretty much everything you post reeks of bigotry. Whatever floats your boat, I guess.


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

FeXL said:


> Bigot, huh? Intolerant of differing creeds, beliefs & opinions. Hmmm...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yup. Bigots are often fond of name calling to defend their bigoted views. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Pssst...Freddie: They're not names. They're conditions... 



Freddie_Biff said:


> Yup. Bigots are often fond of name calling to defend their bigoted views.


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

FeXL said:


> Pssst...Freddie: They're not names. They're conditions...




Aaaannd....it follows that you would defend your bigotry rather than contemplate backing off a little and checking your manners. You're so predictable. Good luck with that.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

And it follows that one of the Progs on these boards who can't argue his way out of a wet paper bag is crying, "VICTIM!!! THE BIG, BAD RIGHTY IS CALLING ME NAAAAMES!!! WAAAAAAHHHHH!!!".

Prove me wrong, Freddie. Show me that being Progressive is not merely an ideological condition founded upon fact free, baseless, feel good pap.

Defend Red Rachel's economic policy (with facts!), wherein she has not paid a dime on principal & is now borrowing more money to pay for the money she already borrowed merely to pay interest on her debt. Defend her hunnert billion dollar deficit (conservatively) predicted for 2024. Precisely what are the fine people of this great big province getting for our money and, whatever it is, is it worth $100 billion in debt & tens of billions in interest which will be foisted onto our children & grandchildren?

Go for it.

If not, fine. There's no shame in admitting you can't. Merely crawl back into the safety of your dark hole with all your Prog friends & continue to snipe from the cheap seats like you always do.

Speaking of Prog friends, how's the school Koffee Klatch doing lately? Any talk about how Red Rachel's days are numbered or are they all diehard deniers to the end? Anybody pining for the Klein days when a 5% wage cutback was cheap compared to what they'll be paying for interest payments on provincial debt for the next coupla decades? If any of them had two brain cells to rub together they should...

And, why would I back off? Truth hurt? Feelings a bit raw? Not feeling the love these days? Time to put on your big girl panties & suck it up, princess.

Moreover, you can take your manners suggestion & shove it where the sun don't shine, Mr. Everybody Who Ain't Marx Is Alt-Right. I jes' luvs me a good, ol' fashioned, predictable (the iron!!!) Prog hypocrite...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Aaaannd....it follows that you would defend your bigotry rather than contemplate backing off a little and checking your manners. You're so predictable. Good luck with that.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Hey, Notley passed a lot of laws! That's good governance!


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

FeXL said:


> And it follows that one of the Progs on these boards who can't argue his way out of a wet paper bag is crying, "VICTIM!!! THE BIG, BAD RIGHTY IS CALLING ME NAAAAMES!!! WAAAAAAHHHHH!!!".
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Bossy bossy. You don't offend me. You just reveal your own rather boorish ways everytime you criticize "progs" or any of the other societal classifications that swim in that head of yours. You are not capable of having a polite conversation. But don't feel bad admitting you can't—some people are chronically incapable of putting their bigotry aside for even five minutes. You just happen to be one. You have no control over it.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Not bossing anybody, Freddie. Asked you to prove me wrong & if you can't then there's no embarrassment. You chose the latter. Fine by me. Merely confirms everything I noted.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Bossy bossy.


I offend the $h!t out of you, Freddie. You & every other Prog on these boards. Why? 'Cause I don't back down, I calls 'em as I sees 'em and it's damn difficult to prove me wrong. Why? 'Cause I use facts to defend my arguments, not feel good pap.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You don't offend me.


So it's everybody then? 'Cause I don't reserve my scorn for just Progs. It's open season on stupidity across the political spectrum. For instance, Trump's recent decision to sign the spending bill. Schtupid.

And, like you never criticize anybody. QED...



Freddie_Biff said:


> You just reveal your own rather boorish ways everytime you criticize "progs" or any of the other societal classifications that swim in that head of yours.


Be sure to tell MF, SINC & Beej that, among others.

Thing is, Freddie, you are not truly interested in "polite conversation". You're interested in having your views go unchallenged. That defines "polite conversation" to you. This is ploughed ground and I have zero interest in going over it again.



Freddie_Biff said:


> You are not capable of having a polite conversation.


I make no apologies for putting BS on display. After all, sunlight is the best disinfectant.

Don't like it? There's others places online where you can have all the unchallenged, "polite conversation" you want. I know you go elsewhere. Thing is, all that mutual beard-pullin', chin-scratchin', nose-pickin', head-noddin' an' back-slappin' must bore you to tears 'cause you jes' keep coming back here.



Freddie_Biff said:


> But don't feel bad admitting you can't...


Thank _you_, Dr Sigmund Fraud. You & CM should really farm out all that psychological expertise. I'm sure you could find some snake oil salespeople who'd be more'n happy to set you both up a booth at the circus or something.

I exercise control over what I post every single time. Very few of my posts convey anything near what I really feel about some of the wunnerful personas on these boards...



Freddie_Biff said:


> You have no control over it.


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

FeXL said:


> Not bossing anybody, Freddie. Asked you to prove me wrong & if you can't then there's no embarrassment. You chose the latter. Fine by me. Merely confirms everything I noted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You seem worked up. Perhaps a nap would help.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Yet one more content-free, completely off the mark post, brought to you by the ever resentful (You don't let me have my version of polite conversation!!!) Freddie...



Freddie_Biff said:


> You seem worked up. Perhaps a nap would help.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Content-free across the Internet since '97!


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Interesting read. As we have children at or approaching post-secondary age, I have some concern here.

Don't Go To College



> “Higher education” is terrible.
> 
> Please note the quotation marks, you doofy liberals who will no doubt fill the comments with high-pitched typing about how “Conservatives hate knowing stuff.” What passes for “education” today is nothing of the sort, and what calls itself “academia” is really just a venal trade guild packed with mediocrities desperately trying to keep fooling people into forking over $60,000 a year – usually obtained via ruinous borrowing that ties a financial anchor around the defrauded grads’ necks for the rest of their lives.
> 
> Today, academia’s product is largely garbage – gender studies, twisted history, and pointless sociology spin-offs like communications and political science. Yeah, we need more students studying politics when they don’t even know that the Constitution says they can’t shut people up because their feelz has got the hurtz.


More:



> So what do you do after high school? How about live? How about do something besides march into another soul-crushing conformity factory for four years? Get a job. Do something, anything besides rush to sit behind a desk for another half-decade. Join the Army – realistically, you have a pretty good chance that your platoon leader won’t be an America-hating Marxist or some virtue-signaling, girlfriendless geebo with a #VetsForGunReform bumpersticker on his Prius. Just do something real.


----------



## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

FeXL said:


> Interesting read. As we have children at or approaching post-secondary age, I have some concern here.


Bright kids should definitely consider university, with a couple caveats for parents:

1) Never pay $30k per year in tuition. That's unnecessary in Canada, outside of some professional programs, and in the U.S. your kids can stay in state and pay reasonable tuition.

2) Wait for the kids to pick a major after first year (if they're not in something like engineering or nursing) and be willing to cut them off if they want to major in fake disciplines. You don't have to lead with this argument-- that tends to create an opposite response -- but be willing to act if they can't be convinced. If you wouldn't pay thousands for them to take scientology courses, then don't pay for fake disciplines.

That's all that comes to mind. University is still a great way to get ahead for some people, if the right choices are made.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Beej said:


> Bright kids should definitely consider university, with a couple caveats for parents:
> 
> 1) Never pay $30k per year in tuition. That's unnecessary in Canada, outside of some professional programs, and in the U.S. your kids can stay in state and pay reasonable tuition.
> 
> ...


Reasonable points, Beej. "Right choices" are always the best choices, although they are not always seen early on in one's academic career. Personally, luckily I chose to go into education, and after having taught from pre-school to grade 12 students, and university students on an undergrad and grad level since 1970, I still urge my students to think about the profession they are getting into. I am a believer that "those who can should teach .......... those who can't should find another worthy profession." Paix, mon ami.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Beej, I would like to see Grade 13 come back to Ontario AND....I would like it to be 1st. Year university level ( with credit going to completion ) courses. Many students have not been exposed to the academic rigour of university levels material. This would better prepare them without the thousands of dollars spent. The real cost of university is not the tuition but the living expenses.....living at home and getting some of a first year under your belt would be a benefit for virtually all students. I view this as an easy way to help those who choose going to a university become successful AND it may spur those who don’t think they can do university to go. I have known many who were poor in high school but went to college or a university and were highly successful....I include myself in that category.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Not surprised.

Evidence Shows Students Still Learn More Effectively From Print Textbooks Than Screens



> Our work has revealed a significant discrepancy. Students said they preferred and performed better when reading on screens. But their actual performance tended to suffer.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Based on what I have seen I would agree with this. I would also stress actual pen to paper writing as opposed to the dreaded keyboard.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Rps said:


> Based on what I have seen I would agree with this. I would also stress actual pen to paper writing as opposed to the dreaded keyboard.


Agreed. Add to this cursive writing. Paix, mon ami.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Universities and colleges struggle to stem big drops in enrollment



> The result is that the number of students in colleges and universities has now dropped for five straight years, according to the National Student Clearinghouse, which tracks this — and this year is the worst so far, with 81,000 fewer high school graduates nationwide heading to places like Ohio Wesleyan, whose entering freshman class is down 9 percent from last year.
> 
> How dramatic is the falloff? There were just over 18 million students enrolled in higher education nationally in the semester just ended — 2.4 million fewer than there were in the fall of 2011, the most recent peak, the National Student Clearinghouse reports.
> 
> “That’s unprecedented in the history of as long as data has been kept on higher education,” said Kevin Crockett, senior executive at the enrollment-management consulting firm Ruffalo Noel Levitz.


Funny. I look at the list of possible problems & solutions & not one of them addresses the SJW's scaring potential students off campus..

More:



> One of the greatest challenges, as at other places, has been to get buy-in from the faculty, who have to approve new academic offerings. Ohio Wesleyan invited faculty on the curriculum committee to meet with the financial-aid committee, giving them a sense of how serious the problems were and asking them for help in coming up with majors that might attract more students.
> 
> This doesn’t always work. *One faculty member suggested a new major in sacred music*, for example. “Some faculty have a very clear understanding of the issues,” Jones said wryly. “Others, less so.”


Bold mine.

I rest my case...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

10 Things Teachers DID NOT Have to Deal With 10 Years Ago



> Something is wrong—very, very wrong. Teachers across the country at all grade levels, in all subjects, teaching a wide variety of student populations, can sense it. There is a pulse of dysfunction, a steady palpitation of doom that the path we are on is not properly oriented.
> 
> There is a raw and amorphous anxiety creeping into the psyche of the corps of American teachers.
> 
> We may have trouble pinpointing the exact moment when something in our schools and broader culture went wildly astray, leaving in its wake teachers sapped of optimism and weighted with enervate comprehension. The following is a small sampling—this list could easily have been twice as long if my conversations with fellow teachers are any indication—of problems that teachers were not facing ten years ago.


Interesting list.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

FeXL, yes it is an interesting article. And, much written from a U.S. perspective. In our on-line world today, we tend to lump what we see and hear as “near”. So while we could have in school shootings here, we do not have the record of our friends south of the border....so I think when there is one, the “nearness” affects for a limited time. I’m not sure how many stiudents in Ontario actually think of in school shootings as an awaiting threat.

Cellphones are a product of poor school financing I think.....many teachers encourage their use for research ...I do not. Bullying has always existed, on-line bullying is because the kids won’t shut the damn thing off....so it is constant to them....maybe our education system should encourage non-online use.

I think the real issue is responsibility.....in our society someone has to be responsible....and it never seems to be the active actor ..... teachers today have evolved into co-parents and that should never have happened. And I don’t think that was something my teachers ever did...and I’m not so sure 10 years ago other teachers did either, at least to the extent we have today.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

"Co-parents" with no authority to correct or discipline...


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> "Co-parents" with no authority to correct or discipline...


One of the related issues to this is responsibility and accountability. You have no idea how many times I've sat in parent teacher interviews with my children and heard their mark is X but they have 10 assignments outstanding and when those are handed in they will be Y.

This, too me, teaches the kids their are no consequences to their lack of effort. As they don't seem to fail kids today. In my day is it was due in 10 days that was it....if you were late you got zip....

This is a bad practice in my opinion....the kids learn not to care....which is a significant weakness when and if they move to higher levels such as college or university...not to mention the work field.


----------



## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

Rps said:


> One of the related issues to this is responsibility and accountability. You have no idea how many times I've sat in parent teacher interviews with my children and heard their mark is X but they have 10 assignments outstanding and when those are handed in they will be Y.
> 
> This, too me, teaches the kids their are no consequences to their lack of effort. As they don't seem to fail kids today. In my day is it was due in 10 days that was it....if you were late you got zip....
> 
> This is a bad practice in my opinion....the kids learn not to care....which is a significant weakness when and if they move to higher levels such as college or university...not to mention the work field.


well we all know children shoulder never get hurt feelings or face consequences for not completing something when due. They would all grow up as maniacal monsters so mentally unstable they would not be able to deal with life problems... or wait, is that what is happening by having no consequences?


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Some interesting numbers...

1,049,200 'Serious Offenses' Reported in Nation's Public Schools in 2015-16



> In the 2015-2016 school year, 1,049,200 "serious offenses" were reported in the nation's 96,360 public schools in 17,337 school districts, covering 50.6 million students, the U.S. Education Department's Office for Civil Rights reported on Tuesday.
> 
> Ninety-four percent of those serious offenses (990,600) involved physical attacks or threats of physical attack without a weapon. Two percent (22,000) involved physical attacks or threats of physical attack with some type of weapon.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Is it acceptable for ideology to enter school assignments?

11-Year-Old Docked Points for Not Bashing Trump



> To say that some people dislike Donald Trump may well be the understatement of the year. It's hard to imagine any duly elected president seeing so many protests, yet here we are.
> 
> It's so bad that now an 11-year-old in Annadale, New York, was docked 15 points on a homework assignment because she failed to answer a question demanding students bash Trump:


Consider it a rhetorical question...


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Rps said:


> One of the related issues to this is responsibility and accountability. You have no idea how many times I've sat in parent teacher interviews with my children and heard their mark is X but they have 10 assignments outstanding and when those are handed in they will be Y.
> 
> This, too me, teaches the kids their are no consequences to their lack of effort. As they don't seem to fail kids today. In my day is it was due in 10 days that was it....if you were late you got zip....
> 
> This is a bad practice in my opinion....the kids learn not to care....which is a significant weakness when and if they move to higher levels such as college or university...not to mention the work field.


The point is to push them to the next level so they can declare success. An Ontario high school upgrade program requires the students to take ONE community college class so that the government can claim the student entered post secondary education.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

This doesn't surprise me in the least. I've never believed the inherent reason more males are in STEM than females is due to a cognition problem.

That said, I entirely believe it's due to what life throws at them _after_ they are 8 years old.

No gender differences in early math cognition

(Precis only)


----------



## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

How three scholars gulled academic journals to publish hoax papers on ‘grievance studies.’
https://www.wsj.com/articles/fake-news-comes-to-academia-1538520950

Note that the hoaxed editors seem primarily focused on verifying author identities going forward, not spotting obvious nonsense. 

Background information here, including a brief video.
https://areomagazine.com/2018/10/02/academic-grievance-studies-and-the-corruption-of-scholarship/


> While our papers are all outlandish or intentionally broken in significant ways, it is important to recognize that they blend in almost perfectly with others in the disciplines under our consideration.





> This is the primary point of the project: What we just described is not knowledge production; it’s sophistry. That is, it’s a forgery of knowledge that should not be mistaken for the real thing. The biggest difference between us and the scholarship we are studying by emulation is that we know we made things up.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Beej said:


> How three scholars gulled academic journals to publish hoax papers on ‘grievance studies.’


Further:

Postscript on the Grievance Studies Scandal



> I am pleased to see that Kevin Drum, the smartest lefty writer at Mother Jones magazine, agrees with me (see especially the very last sentence in bold):
> 
> _I can’t think of any serious field in which an amateur who’s done a few month’s reading could even produce a plausible parody, let alone a paper that would be taken seriously by dozens of editors and peer reviewers. *If that’s all it takes, a PhD is a meaningless five-year waste of time
> 
> ...


M'bold.

_Mother Jones_??!! :yikes:

Calling Dr. CubaMark! Calling Dr. CubaMark!


----------



## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

FeXL said:


> Further:
> 
> Postscript on the Grievance Studies Scandal
> 
> ...


The fake academic disciplines are proud of being part of "higher education". We could include eating yellow snow in higher education, but that wouldn't suddenly make it a credible discipline. It would probably do less harm to society than grievance studies, though.


----------



## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

FeXL said:


> This doesn't surprise me in the least. I've never believed the inherent reason more males are in STEM than females is due to a cognition problem.
> 
> That said, I entirely believe it's due to what life throws at them _after_ they are 8 years old.
> 
> ...


Will we do have our own Freddie as verifiable proof that being male does not imply competency in the field of Mathematics. My wife would clean his clock on any basic math skills quiz.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

eMacMan said:


> Will we do have our own Freddie as verifiable proof that being male does not imply competency in the field of Mathematics. My wife would clean his clock on any basic math skills quiz.


If she cleans his clock once in 2018 and again in 2019, does this mean you have two wives?


----------



## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Macfury said:


> If she cleans his clock once in 2018 and again in 2019, does this mean you have two wives?


I have to confess that I have never been able to wrap my head around Freddies math. That said one is about all I can deal with so I hope it's only one.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Matters not as long as voters clean that Notley clown David Eggen's clock, the complete imbecile running education in this province. And Notley too of course.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

SINC said:


> Matters not as long as voters clean that Notley clown David Eggen's clock, the complete imbecile running education in this province. And Notley too of course.


The ones that offend me the most are bonehead Notley, smug Shannon Philips and brain dead Joe Ceci.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Let's talk Barry's legacy s'more!

9 Years Into Common Core, Test Scores Are Down, Indoctrination Up



> It’s been about nine years since the Obama administration lured states into adopting Common Core sight unseen, with promises it would improve student achievement. Like President Obama’s other big promises — “If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor” — this one’s been proven a scam.
> 
> “If you set and enforce rigorous and challenging standards and assessments; if you put outstanding teachers at the front of the classroom; if you turn around failing schools — your state can win a Race to the Top grant that will not only help students outcompete workers around the world, but let them fulfill their God-given potential,” President Obama said in July 2009.
> 
> ...


More:



> *ACT scores released earlier this month show that students’ math achievement is at a 20-year low. The latest English ACT scores are slightly down since 2007, and students’ readiness for college-level English was at its lowest level since ACT’s creators began measuring that item, in 2002. Students’ preparedness for college-level math is at its lowest point since 2004.*


Yeah, my bold.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Interesting read. Unfortunately, it'll never happen.

Teacher Shortage? Try Competition



> Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to… tinker with markets.
> 
> That isn’t the original ending to that sentence, but it is certainly accurate. There may be no better place to observe this tangled web than in the education system. At the risk of sounding hyperbolic, nearly every complaint about our education system can be solved through competition.
> 
> Consider, for example, one of the most common news stories about education in my home state of Pennsylvania and beyond: teacher shortages. We throw ever-increasing amounts of money at education and never reach the magical amount that will solve our problems. That’s because teachers’ unions stand in the way of policies that would actually address the issues money can’t solve. *Instead, why not take a step back and let a thousand flowers bloom — and compete with each other to offer the best solution?*


Bold mine.


----------



## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Looks like Freddie comes by his (non)math skills honestly. My God 50% is acceptable and for the most part they end up setting the bar even lower.


https://calgaryherald.com/news/loca...s-in-the-wake-of-alarmingly-poor-test-results




> Last month, the CBE released standardized test results showing more than 40 per cent of Grade 9 students failed their math exams last year, while officials also confirmed that acceptable standards were much lower than 50 per cent.
> 
> According to the data released in late October, only 59.4 per cent of CBE students achieved acceptable standards in the Grade 9 math provincial achievement test for the 2017-18 school year, meaning more than 40 per cent failed.
> 
> ...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

eMacMan said:


> Looks like Freddie comes by his (non)math skills honestly. My God 50% is acceptable and for the most part they end up setting the bar even lower.


Stunning.

Wonder what Egghead's got to say about that...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

In academia, censorship and conformity have become the norm



> A new academic journal, titled _The Journal of Controversial Ideas_, launching in the new year, will be peer-reviewed and offer a diverse range of viewpoints, calling upon liberals, conservatives, as well as those who are religious and secular, to submit their work. Most notably, it will allow academics to publish under pseudonyms.
> 
> Much of the response to this journal has been criticism alleging that only academics with hateful ideas would require the option to publish under a pseudonym. In truth, facts today are deemed controversial if they deviate from accepted narratives, and professors must self-censor out of fear of being condemned and losing their jobs.


While I don't like the idea of pseudonyms in scientific research, I _almost_ understand the need. The rebel in me says, FU, come & get me. The pragmatist says, it'd be nice to feed my family this week.

It's good the research will stay peer-reviewed, FWIW.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Interesting concept.

An IDEA Whose Time Has Come



> The Rio Grande Valley in Texas is not the first place that policymakers look for solutions to America’s most enduring problems. But from this region of chronic poverty comes a charter school network so good at teaching the poor that it has attracted nearly $1 billion in bonds, as well as bids from leaders around the country eager to help finance its expansion into their cities.
> 
> IDEA Public Schools is the fastest-growing school district in America. Founded in 2000 by two Teach for America alums on the second floor of a church near the Mexican border, IDEA today comprises 79 schools, 45,000 students, 5,100 employees, and a budget of $500 million. It opened 18 schools last year and will open 18 more in 2019. It has expanded into El Paso and Baton Rouge, Louisiana (its first location outside Texas). It will open schools in Fort Worth in 2019, Houston in 2020, and Midland and Tampa in 2021. By 2022, it expects to have 173 schools and 100,000 students, almost all from poor homes.


More:



> IDEA is a threat to conventional public school systems, whose allies on the left have savaged it at every turn.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/can...SMVqSMk_5y-MsRhZGBwJgYx--2rblgfYrj7nMzKKHaF-g

An interesting idea. Wonder if it will work? We shall see.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Dr.G. said:


> An interesting idea. Wonder if it will work? We shall see.


Like most progressive experiments in education, I expect this one to fail miserably.


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Dr.G. said:


> https://www.theglobeandmail.com/can...SMVqSMk_5y-MsRhZGBwJgYx--2rblgfYrj7nMzKKHaF-g
> 
> An interesting idea. Wonder if it will work? We shall see.


I'm willing to bet money that it will fail.


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Macfury said:


> I'm willing to bet money that it will fail.


I agree! A little history.... I went to a one room school, we had 1 teacher for all 8 grades. Later, when I was in grade 3 the school was split into two, a teacher for 1 to 4, and a teacher for 5 to 8. Much of what we learned, especially in math, was by rote.

What this did for all grades was build on the basics....why 3x3 = 9 came later.

What I have noticed in my adult years is that kids today treat addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division as discrete subjects. They do not see the interaction of the functions and the relationship of numbers. What I also have noticed is that today’s teachers do not seem to be able to teach math because they can’t make it a real and tangible thing. Think about your math classes.....how old were you and what was that key item when you suddenly realized you could actually use “this” for something.

I still remember log tables....I always thought nice to know but so what.....who carried log tables around.

Expressed another way....Discovery math didn’t put man on the moon, it was rote learning.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Rps said:


> I agree! A little history.... I went to a one room school, we had 1 teacher for all 8 grades. Later, when I was in grade 3 the school was split into two, a teacher for 1 to 4, and a teacher for 5 to 8. Much of what we learned, especially in math, was by rote.
> 
> What this did for all grades was build on the basics....why 3x3 = 9 came later.
> 
> ...


"Think about your math classes.....how old were you and what was that key item when you suddenly realized you could actually use “this” for something." I was about 10 years of age and started to figure out batting averages, ERAs, etc for my favorite baseball players. These were the days before the calculator. This is when I really understood the use of math .................. and it stayed with me until grade 10 when algebra entered the mix with letters and numbers. I was doomed. Luckily, grade 11 geometry saved me (I am a visual learner so I liked geometry). I think the goal of this experiment is to help students become "risk takers" in their learning process. I recall when teachers would "bleed" over my compositions due to all my spelling mistakes, rather than comment upon the content of the written work. Luckily, it was in my final course for my doctoral program, a course in the assessment of advanced literacy learning disabilities, that I discovered that I had a LD in spelling. Sadly, it took me four university degrees to discover that I was not stupid when it came to spelling. I still cannot spell well ............. but at least I do not feel stupid. Excelsior.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Duke University pays feds $112.5 million in science fraud case



> Duke University will pay $112.5 million to the United States Government to settle Thomas v. Duke, a lawsuit alleging that a research technician improperly falsified and fabricated data from 2006 to 2013 to obtain research funding from the National Institutes of Health (NIH) and other federal agencies, the university announced Monday.


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Dr.G. said:


> "Think about your math classes.....how old were you and what was that key item when you suddenly realized you could actually use “this” for something." I was about 10 years of age and started to figure out batting averages, ERAs, etc for my favorite baseball players. These were the days before the calculator. This is when I really understood the use of math .................. and it stayed with me until grade 10 when algebra entered the mix with letters and numbers. I was doomed. Luckily, grade 11 geometry saved me (I am a visual learner so I liked geometry). I think the goal of this experiment is to help students become "risk takers" in their learning process. I recall when teachers would "bleed" over my compositions due to all my spelling mistakes, rather than comment upon the content of the written work. Luckily, it was in my final course for my doctoral program, a course in the assessment of advanced literacy learning disabilities, that I discovered that I had a LD in spelling. Sadly, it took me four university degrees to discover that I was not stupid when it came to spelling. I still cannot spell well ............. but at least I do not feel stupid. Excelsior.




Thanks for sharing your first hand account, Marc. Education is a far-reaching subject, and everyone has a story to tell.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Tell us how you failed math, Freddie.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Thanks for sharing your first hand account, Marc. Education is a far-reaching subject, and everyone has a story to tell.


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

FeXL said:


> Tell us how you failed math, Freddie.




Just full of positivity, aren’t you? Now you know why the other kids didn’t want to play with you.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

You're the one who just associated poor math skills with negativity, not me.

Long ago I discovered the maxim of, "You'll learn more from your failures than your successes" was eminently true. That's definitely a plus, not a negative. Your particular mileage may vary.

As far as the "other kids not playing with me"?

1) I could care less if the Progs play with me or not;
2) The reason the Progs don't play with me is because they get tired of having their asses handed to them in an even argument.



Freddie_Biff said:


> Just full of positivity, aren’t you? Now you know why the other kids didn’t want to play with you.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

9 Years Into Common Core, Test Scores Are Down, Indoctrination Up



> It’s been about nine years since the Obama administration lured states into adopting Common Core sight unseen, with promises it would improve student achievement. Like President Obama’s other big promises — “If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor” — this one’s been proven a scam.
> 
> “If you set and enforce rigorous and challenging standards and assessments; if you put outstanding teachers at the front of the classroom; if you turn around failing schools — your state can win a Race to the Top grant that will not only help students outcompete workers around the world, but let them fulfill their God-given potential,” President Obama said in July 2009.
> 
> ...


Bold mine.

Ya think?! :yikes:


----------



## Rps (May 2, 2009)

FeXL, you might find this interesting . If you’ve already read it sorry for the duplication.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/natali...ople-make-about-the-common-core/#65f892c99e56


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Rps said:


> FeXL, you might find this interesting . If you’ve already read it sorry for the duplication.


Thx for the link, Rps.

Haven't seen it yet. Get back to you.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

The Morning Rant: Minimalist Edition



> As usual, New Jersey is taking one of its few successes and trying mightily to destroy it. These vocational schools seem to work rather well, and select students who are motivated and have the basic intelligence to succeed. But that cannot stand, because success...and the youth of New Jersey...must be sacrificed on the altar of political correctness and inclusivity and affirmative action and the other jargonny bull**** that the Left flings about when they set their sights on some free-market success story.
> 
> How New Jersey turned vocational schools into sought-after academies
> 
> But in an effort to create a variety of programs to attract a range of academic achievers, the county-run model’s admissions process has produced a stratified system in which some of the elite vocational academies enroll a student body that’s significantly less diverse than the population of the schools’ home counties. This isn’t the case at Tech, but it is occurring at some of the academies, which require an admissions test. It’s a challenge that administrators of the programs are just beginning to grapple with, and it is emerging as New Jersey faces a legal battle over segregation in its traditional public schools, which are among the most racially divided in the nation.​


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Why Can’t We Ask the Hard Questions About Education?



> Retired teacher Mary Hudson recently wrote a damning exposé based on her experiences in the New York City public school system. Hudson taught in three different public high schools and her observations from those years lead her to implicate the students and a “go along to get along” attitude among administrators for persistently poor educational performance.
> 
> Put simply, administrators are unwilling to set high educational and behavioral standards for fear of having to confront underperforming and disruptive students. They have few implements their toolbox to permit such confrontation. As a result, students feel diminished and take advantage of lax standards to dismiss the educational aspect of school. Peer pressure and even physical intimidation deter the few students who are interested in learning and effectively this turns schooltime into social time. *Administrators respond by treating classes like day care, often to the chagrin of teachers.
> 
> This is “the soft bigotry of low expectations” epitomized.*


Bold mine.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Rps said:


> FeXL, you might find this interesting . If you’ve already read it sorry for the duplication.


Time & again the main criticism I've read about CC is that there is _no true curriculum_. Oh sure, you have a set of skills standards outlined for Math & English for each grade but, as the first grader "Brazil" example cited in your linked article illustrate, clearly her teacher dropped the ball.

I see two issues here: First, as noted, the absence of a curriculum. Second, the inability (wilful or not) of teachers to create a lesson plan which will meet the skills standards requirement. Part if the issue compounding point two is the lack of resources available.*

Now, we can debate until the cows come home as to whether point two should actually be part of the teacher's job (creating lesson plans without the guidelines of a set curriculum) but without a curriculum, American kids are going to fall behind under CC.

Your article notes the difficulties of having a national curriculum. I agree. I don't know if regional differences will ever allow the development of such a curriculum. 

However, before we even get that far, perhaps the question we should be asking is, should education fall under national or state purview? Maybe both?

What if each state (or possibly even a regional group of states, ie., northeast, southwest) would be responsible for designing their own curriculum with the end goal of passing the CC skills standards requirement?

Some additional reading:

The Common Core Explained

The Problems with the Common Core

This May Be The Biggest Problem With America's 'Common Core' Education Standards

*This same issue is now exposing itself under Red Rachel's curriculum update in Alberta. A new curriculum is being introduced with no listed resources to support it.


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## Rps (May 2, 2009)

Thanx for the links FeXL, I will get to them over the weekend. I do think there is power in a curriculum, and as for lesson plans I won’t touch that, as an educator it would be opening Pandora’s Box.....but lesson plans are, at least to me, part of the art in teaching. The national and regional interests is an interesting question...but I think we are actually there now. What I have noticed living across from Detroit is the lack of proper funding for education. The U.S. seems to commercialize everything...including schools. If you have the money fine...if not then you are left to the wolves. Basically the elementary and secondary education system in the U.S. in my opinion is geared to developing minimum wage workers.....


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Rps said:


> The national and regional interests is an interesting question...but I think we are actually there now.


In Canada, yes. US? I don't see much. There seem to be a very few states who are actually putting together a curriculum. Your Forbes article talked about Louisiana, I believe.

As an aside, I just ran across a link to a PDF article from Sep, 1991, entitled, "A National Curriculum in the United States" here. I haven't read the complete article yet.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Mathgate: New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio Caught in Massive Grade Fraud Scandal



> As education-reform activists prepare to demonstrate at New York’s City Hall on Wednesday, a massive grade-fraud scandal has been exposed in America’s largest public-school system. SOS NYC, an organization that fights the under-education of Gotham’s children, released middle-school ratings using its nascent School Grade Fraud Index (SGFI). The Index divides the percentage of a school’s students who pass their math classes by the percentage of students who pass their New York State math tests. The higher the Index, the greater the fraud. If 100 percent of a middle school’s students pass their math classes and 100 percent of students also pass the state math test, the school would have an SGFI of 1.0. Conversely, if 100 percent of students passed their math classes, but only 1 percent of students passed the state exam, the school’s Index would be 100.
> 
> *SOS NYC found one Bronx middle school, P.S/I.S. 224, in which 93.5 percent of students passed their math classes, but only 2 percent passed the state math exam. This yielded an SGFI of 46.75.*


Bold mine.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

FeXL said:


> Mathgate: New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio Caught in Massive Grade Fraud Scandal


Alternatively, the problem is too little ideological purity. In more falsely educated circles it is known that objectivity and individualism are actually white supremacy. So allow students to answer questions with their personal truths, and collectivize the scores with high ranking schools. Problem solved.

Maybe also throw in some struggle sessions for over-achievers to earn bonus points for their classmates.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Again, from the Department of the Blatantly Obvious.

Federally Funded Study: Common Core Sunk U.S. Kids’ Test Scores



> Researchers the Obama administration funded to assist Common Core’s rollout recently found, to their surprise, that under Common Core U.S. student achievement has sunk...


More:



> *The study found not only lower student achievement since Common Core, but also performed data analysis suggesting students would have done better if Common Core had never existed. The achievement declines also grew worse over time, study coauthor Mengli Song told Chalkbeat, an education news website: “That’s a little troubling.”*


Bold mine.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

How refreshing!

San Ysidro High School Valedictorian Goes All "Carrie" on the School's Faculty In Her Speech



> San Ysidro High senior Nataly Buhr’s speech began the way most valedictorian addresses begin: She thanked her parents for their love and support, her friends for the memories she will cherish, and a few select teachers for helping her achieve success.
> 
> Then Buhr broke from tradition when she thanked a school counselor who she said was regularly unavailable to students. She didn't name the counselor.
> 
> ...


----------



## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Here's one for Freddie. I now refer to teachers without degrees or union affiliation as "Undocumented Educators."


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

FeXL said:


> How refreshing!
> 
> San Ysidro High School Valedictorian Goes All "Carrie" on the School's Faculty In Her Speech


Love it! Maybe there really is hope for the future.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

eMacMan said:


> Love it! Maybe there really is hope for the future.


I'm just spitballin' here, but I don't think she's a SJW... 

Harvard should pull their support for Hogg & give it to her.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

The Way Of The Woke



> The new hotness in grading for woke academics: “Dispensing almost completely with judgements of quality.”
> 
> Participants will be shown how to “revise course materials so they don’t accidentally promote or reinforce racist practices,” though the particulars are somehow both emphatic and opaque. We are, for instance, told that, “single standards” for language “kill our students,” which sounds just a tad breathless. There will, it seems, be lots of “redesigning assessment ecologies,” and quite a few “dimension-based rubrics,” which, via an as yet unspecified process, will upend “white racial habits of language,” resulting in some kind of righteous emancipation. In short, grading a student’s ability to convey their thoughts in writing – and to formulate thoughts by writing – is a manifestation of “white language supremacy,” an apparently murderous phenomenon, and therefore to be abandoned in the name of “inclusive excellence.”​
> Oh, there’s more.


From the comments:



> So basically, these children are taking on mountains of debt to be taught that if they express themselves in a way that someone else doesn’t understand, it’s the other person’s fault.


:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

FeXL said:


> The Way Of The Woke
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I won't axe WTH that's all about.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

A Little Competition Goes A Long Way, Even In Education



> School Voucher Kids More Likely to Graduate From College, Study Says
> 
> And this is into the fierce headwinds of the combined efforts of the Democrat Party, the various national and state teachers unions, and every ****-ant progressive mouthpiece in the land.
> 
> "The collective evidence in this paper indicates that students in the Milwaukee Parental Choice Program tend to have higher levels of educational attainment than a carefully matched comparison group of Milwaukee Public School students," the authors conclude. "The MPCP students are more likely to enroll, persist, and experience more total years in a four-year college."​


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Panel Appointed by Bill Di Blasio Concludes That New York City's Gifted and Talented Magnet School System Must Be Eradicated, In Order to Desegregate Schools 



> This is going to be bad.
> 
> For years, New York City has essentially maintained two parallel public school systems.
> 
> ...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Infantilised For The Cause



> The language guide, published by the university’s “diversity” department, is promoted as a way for students to “gain credibility.”​
> And nothing screams credibility like pretending to be injured by the terms _mothering_ and _mankind_.


Right. 'Cause nothing screams credibility quite like someone with a feeble grip on language...

Related:

A large part of Conservatism is...



> ..calling things by their proper names...
> 
> "The San Francisco Board of Supervisors enacted changes to its language for criminals last month, sanitizing the harsh language traditionally used to identify criminals and their crimes."​


Well. Wouldn't want to bruise any fragile, justice-involved egos now, would we?


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

College Board Revamps SAT ‘Adversity Score’, Admits it Was a Mistake



> The College Board, which administers the SAT college entrance exam, is revamping the so-called “adversity score.” The score was given to colleges but unseen by applicants and effectively reduced the experience of an applicant to a single socioeconomic designation.
> 
> Mike blogged in May:
> 
> ...


Bold mine.

Not in the least.


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## wonderings (Jun 10, 2003)

FeXL said:


> College Board Revamps SAT ‘Adversity Score’, Admits it Was a Mistake
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Need to have tests that take into account that some people are not as bright so they can get better scores as well.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

wonderings said:


> Need to have tests that take into account that some people are not as bright so they can get better scores as well.


What about people who don't show up for the tests... don't they deserve some sort of recognition?


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Macfury said:


> What about people who don't show up for the tests... don't they deserve some sort of recognition?


Yep. Just like the kids who don't garner enough credits to graduate but are up there on stage with their classmates who did: participation trophies for all!


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Teacher Sparks Controversy for Making Students Wear Cardboard Boxes to Deter Cheating on Exam



> A Mexican teacher has come under fire for making high-school students wear cardboard boxes on their heads to block their peripheral vision and prevent them from copying on an exam.
> 
> Luis Juárez Texis, the director of Campus 01 “El Sabinal” at the College of Bachelors, in the Mexican state of Tlaxcala, has been accused of humiliating and breaking the basic human rights of his students, after a photo of him overseeing an exam where the students wore cardboard boxes on their heads went viral online. The students’ parents shared the photo on social media and issued a public statement asking educational authorities in Mexico to dismiss Texis.


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## BReligion (Jun 21, 2006)

FeXL said:


> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
> 
> Teacher Sparks Controversy for Making Students Wear Cardboard Boxes to Deter Cheating on Exam


LOL I was that kid in elementry school that for a while had to have a "cardboard cublicle" put up on my desk because I was so easily distracted by other things happening around me... I wonder if I can make a claim :heybaby:

BReligion


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

A new law signed by Gavin Newsom bans schools from suspending disruptive kids



> Sen. Nancy Skinner, D-Berkeley, who wrote the new law, said it would “keep kids in school where they belong and where teachers and counselors can help them thrive.”
> 
> *“SB 419 puts the needs of kids first,” she said.*


Bold mine.

Yeah? How about the needs of the other 25 or 30 kids in the same class as the troublemaker?


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

K–12: The Real Threat is Red Supremacists



> ...When it comes to reading, writing and arithmetic, 99% of American parents want children to have these skills. Naturally they get them, right? Wrong, and that's how you know that some serious subversion is going on. Red supremacists seem to be everywhere in education. Examining K–12 is remarkably revealing, like taking an x-ray of the whole country.
> 
> The gains that all parents want are routinely withheld from American children. Reading is down. Math is down. Factual knowledge (AKA cultural literacy) is down. Order and coherence in the classroom are down. Satisfaction among teachers is down. Satisfaction among parents is down. The kids cry themselves to sleep. Who voted for any of these things? Nobody. They were somehow imposed from on high.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

And They Call It Equity



> Such that seven different experiments, in seven different cities, resulted in seven dramatic surges in classroom violence, up to and including actual riots. *While white teachers who found themselves being punched in the face, resulting in trips to hospital and permanent injury, were subsequently lectured on their “unconscious biases” and “white privilege,” and told to take comfort in free emergency whistles.*
> 
> This, then, is “racial equity,” according to our betters. See how it shines.


Bold mine.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Another example of, "is this a hoax" in education?
https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/...push-to-rehumanize.html?cmp=soc-edit-tw-teach


> The Seattle school district is planning to infuse all K-12 math classes with ethnic-studies questions that encourage students to explore how math has been “appropriated” by Western culture and used in systems of power and oppression, a controversial move that puts the district at the forefront of a movement to “rehumanize” math.





> The Association of Mathematics Teacher Educators’ standards for teacher preparation, for instance, say new math teachers should “understand the roles of power, privilege, and oppression in the history of mathematics education.”


No word yet on if they'll teach about the ineptitude of forcing every subject through a Marxist framework of power and oppression. Any subject, really.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Further on the above:

Seattle Public Schools Say Math Is Racist



> The Seattle Public Schools Ethnic Studies Advisory Committee (ESAC) released a rough draft of notes for its Math Ethnic Studies framework in late September, which attempts to connects math to a history of oppression.
> 
> The framework is broken into four different themes: “Origins, Identity, and Agency,” “Power and Oppression,” “History of Resistance and Liberation,” and “Reflection and Action.” (RELATED: Professor Claims Math, Algebra And Geometry Promote ‘White Privilege’)
> 
> The committee suggests that math is subjective and racist, saying under one section, “Who gets to say if an answer is right,” and under another, “how is math manipulated to allow inequality and oppression to persist?”


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

FeXL said:


> Further on the above:
> 
> Seattle Public Schools Say Math Is Racist


Isn't Seattle home base for Daffy Duck???

I'm sure Freddie is all over any excuse for non-existent math skills but this is getting a bit toooo absurd.

OTOH anyone with a firm grasp of basic math is not going to buy into the global warming scam, so maybe the reason for this BS is more obvious than we might think.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

Are Liberal Arts Colleges Doomed?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/maga...-model-american-higher-education/?arc404=true

A tale of parental irresponsibility and administrative incompetence, in part. But it got me wondering why Massachusetts parents would put up with such high tuition instead of going to a decent public university. It turns out local public university costs about $13,000 U.S., which is far higher than any public undergraduate rate in Canada (just under $10,000 Canadian with fees, I think).

So I made this chart to check if that's just Massachusetts as an outlier, with it's unusual concentration of the world's best private universities. Each dot is a state, not an individual university.









I didn't expect that correlation. 

Source: https://research.collegeboard.org/t...-and-fees-public-four-year-institutions-state


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Beej said:


> I didn't expect that correlation.


Interesting graph. Nicely done.

The correlation doesn't really surprise me.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I was shocked to see how much tuition and fees were for my university. There is no way I could afford to go there today. I received a BS B.Ed. and M.Ed. from this university over a 5 1/2 year time span, and my total student loan was $5600. Today, this would pay for one year at this university, which is part of the SUNY (State University of New York) system.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Dr.G. said:


> I was shocked to see how much tuition and fees were for my university. There is no way I could afford to go there today. I received a BS B.Ed. and M.Ed. from this university over a 5 1/2 year time span, and my total student loan was $5600. Today, this would pay for one year at this university, which is part of the SUNY (State University of New York) system.


Clearly the intent is to limit university education to the silver spoon crowd. That way there is no fear of anyone with real intelligence being admitted.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

eMacMan said:


> Clearly the intent is to limit university education to the silver spoon crowd. That way there is no fear of anyone with real intelligence being admitted.


The State of Georgia funds tuition (in part) for students what are able to maintain a B average at one of the state universities. If you have the ability to be admitted, then the State of Georgia Lottery funds tuition payments for these students.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Not a surprise to anyone paying attention.

First Common Core High School Grads Worst-Prepared For College In 15 Years



> For the third time in a row since Common Core was fully phased in nationwide, U.S. student test scores on the nation’s broadest and most respected test have dropped, a reversal of an upward trend between 1990 and 2015. Further, the class of 2019, the first to experience all four high school years under Common Core, is the worst-prepared for college in 15 years, according to a new report.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Left-Wing Racial Grievance Merchants Want to Ban Honors Classes in Schools, Claiming They Only Promote "White Supremacy"



> Academic achievement is racist.
> 
> This is, of course, the inevitable end-point.
> 
> ...


Bold mine.

Are you kidding me? The very idiots who think CC is a wunnerful thing are the ones spouting this nonsense.

Like their children, they don't have a clew...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

17 Divided By 6 Equals ‘Ow, My Feelings’



> It should be apparent that implementing [‘Social-Emotional Learning Theory’] necessarily presupposes some dilution of the traditional nuts-and-bolts curriculum — the diversion of finite class time to topics and methodologies that have nothing to do with mastering, say, long division. The gurus of SEL make no apologies for this. Rather, as [New York mayor, Bill] de Blasio insists in his Fortune piece, “These are hard skills… just like reading and math, that must be taught, practised, and strengthened over time.” SEL’s unflinching emphasis on the so-called “non-cognitive factors” in cognition is bad news for all supporters of no-nonsense education — that is, the kind that doesn’t encourage students to devote class time to communicating their current emotional status to their peers via emojis, as has happened in some SEL implementations.​
> Steve Salerno on woke education. One of these.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Minority Students Threaten to Sue if University of California Doesn’t Drop SAT



> Lots of schools are already dropping entrance exam requirements. Don’t be surprised if the University of California does the same over this.
> 
> The College Fix reports:
> 
> ...


Wah frickin' wah.

One of our littluns was considering university stateside a couple years back. As such, she was required to take an ACT. She ended up doing very well. Not bad for someone who had never taken a single primary or secondary class in the US and had no, zero, test prep classes.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

I didn't see a good thread for this video, so it goes here because of its educational content.

Hire Minorities to express your Minority Opinions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l51ozMOxEYc&feature=youtu.be


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Beej said:


> I didn't see a good thread for this video, so it goes here because of its educational content.
> 
> Hire Minorities to express your Minority Opinions
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l51ozMOxEYc&feature=youtu.be


That's good!


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

As Colleges Move To Do Away With The SAT In The Name Of Diversity, Detroit High School Valedictorian Struggles With Low-Level Math



> * The valedictorian of a Detroit high school is struggling with low-level math at Michigan State University, where 1 in 8 students were in remedial math.
> * Universities have loosened their requirements to attempt to increase graduation rates and diversity.
> * The University of California system may abolish the SAT and ACT as a requirement for entry, saying the standard screenings lead to “inequity” in student populations.


Related:

Common Core fails: US test scores show no improvement despite billions of dollars thrown at education reform



> Results from the latest international exam show U.S. high school students have made “no significant improvement” since the early 2000s and continue to trail students in Asian countries, despite billions of dollars invested in educational reform.
> 
> The exam, known as the Program for International Student Assessment, consists of testing exercises in math, reading, and science and is taken by 15-year-old students across the globe every three years. It seeks to measure how students apply knowledge to real-life scenarios and is considered to be a barometer of future economic success.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

‘It’s Time For A Lesson’: Betsy DeVos Fires Back At Teacher Union Head



> Education Secretary Betsy DeVos fired back at a teachers’ union head Tuesday and said, “It’s time for a lesson.”
> 
> DeVos spoke out at Randi Weingarten, the American Federation of Teachers president, in regards to Weingarten’s tweet about parents sending children to public schools.
> 
> ...


There ya go. Using facts against against an unarmed person. Again...


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

How classroom technology is holding students back



> Educators love digital devices, but there’s little evidence they help children—especially those who most need help.


Bingo!!!


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

The Morning Rant: Minimalist Edition



> Mizzou students required to install location tracking app so college can 'pinpoint' them
> 
> New student-athletes at the University of Missouri are being required to participate in a tracking program designed to measure and enforce class attendance, a university spokesman confirmed to Campus Reform following a report from The Kansas City Star.
> 
> Despite privacy concerns, officials defended the decision as one to the benefit of students, as the school's athletics department has already been using the app, SpotterEdu, to track certain student-athletes. While athletes are required to use the app, new students who are not athletes will be able to opt-in to the program, a Mizzou spokesman clarified to Campus Reform.​


More:



> Passive acceptance of expanding government power is exactly why America is in its current state. *The first step toward a freer country is the education of our youth that government is not our friend*, that giving up any right, no matter how seemingly trivial and inconsequential, may have tremendous repercussions. Maybe not for these idiots, but for their children?


Bold mine.

:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Seattle's School System Wants to Dismantle Its Gifted Programs. This Is Why School Choice Matters.



> As if to demonstrate why parents should pay attention to National School Choice Week, Seattle's school system is purposefully dismantling a program to serve its gifted students—and completely ignoring parents' wishes in the process.
> 
> Last week the Seattle School Board voted to partner with a nonprofit to change and (they hope) improve the curriculum of Washington Middle School. Unfortunately, these changes are coming at the expense of the Highly Capable Cohort (HCC), an extremely popular gifted program that lets the students who score the highest on standardized tests participate in a specialized classes. There, they study material several grade levels higher than the ordinary curriculum.
> 
> The program has historically been dominated by white and Asian students, and this hasn't set well with some folks who want to see more diversity in advanced programs. But rather than improve access, some school leaders—including Superintendent Denise Juneau—have decided that the whole program is a form of "redlining" and are trying to kill off the whole thing, over the objections of their own customers.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

FeXL said:


> Seattle's School System Wants to Dismantle Its Gifted Programs. This Is Why School Choice Matters.


The teachers' union is the customer, not the parents... and they are well served.


----------



## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Wisconsin School District Abandons ‘A-F’ Grading Scale to Prevent Stress



> A school district in Madison, Wisconsin, has made the controversial decision to abandon the common “A to F” grading system based in favor of a system that is “kinder” to students. *Now, top students will be graded as “exceeding” while failing students will be “emerging.”*


Bold mine.

"Emerging". As in a turd? Yup. Definitely kinder than an "F"...


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

FeXL said:


> Wisconsin School District Abandons ‘A-F’ Grading Scale to Prevent Stress
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This stuff all works together. Have no useful way of evaluating students, then get rid of useful standardized testing for college, then give everyone free college, then bring the lessons of the new grading scales to college. Problem solved! 

Everyone gets a post-secondary education and businesses will gradually shift to credentials with standardized testing to find the non-idiots. At some point they will notice that a bright 19 year old can ace the tests. College then becomes extended state-sponsored baby sitting for slow kids, giving mom and dad a much deserved break before their emerging adult moves into their basement.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

<snort>


----------



## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Classes cancelled across Alberta due to COVID 19 fears.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

FeXL said:


> <snort>




Lol


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Freddie_Biff said:


> Classes cancelled across Alberta due to COVID 19 fears.


Are they asking teachers to stay at home or do admin work?


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Tomorrow was to be a PD day for my lovely bride's school division. The topic has just been changed to online ed. Sounds like this is an experimental thing for a couple weeks, see what everything looks like then.


----------



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Our daughter is a vice principal and just left for work tonight to phone 400 parents to tell them that school will not be open tomorrow. Her and the principal. 200 calls each and they are expected to be at school in the morning at 7:00 a.m.


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## Beej (Sep 10, 2005)

FeXL said:


> Tomorrow was to be a PD day for my lovely bride's school division. The topic has just been changed to online ed. Sounds like this is an experimental thing for a couple weeks, see what everything looks like then.


You can watch the briefing from the chief medical officer at this link
https://www.alberta.ca/coronavirus-info-for-albertans.aspx#toc-2


> "That is why, effective immediately, the Emergency Management Cabinet Committee has approved my recommendation that students no longer attend classes in schools or post-secondary institutions until further notice.





> "To be clear, we are not closing schools. Teachers and other school staff should continue to come to their schools to plan potential alternatives for students, particularly those in grade 12.


Other provinces are doing daily briefings which should be available on the provincial healthcare website.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Beej said:


> You can watch the briefing from the chief medical officer at this link...


Thx!


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

SINC said:


> Our daughter is a vice principal and just left for work tonight to phone 400 parents to tell them that school will not be open tomorrow. Her and the principal. 200 calls each and they are expected to be at school in the morning at 7:00 a.m.


They can give each other a wide berth in that big empty school!


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Macfury said:


> Are they asking teachers to stay at home or do admin work?



Unless we’re ill, we’re expected to come to work.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Freddie_Biff said:


> Unless we’re ill, we’re expected to come to work.



And do what???


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

eMacMan said:


> And do what???



Transitioning to online learning. Not sure how successful it will be.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Radically Incompetent Leftwing Professors Fear That Rightwingers Will Discover Their Online Classes and Expose Their Stupidities to the World



> Due to the virus, most classes are cancelled, and professors are "teaching" online.
> 
> They're afraid that rightwing organizations will discover these videos and publicize them, permitting parents to learn how their money is being misspent.
> 
> ...


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Highly Ranked, Wealthy Virginia School District Still Can’t Teach Kids Online After Six Weeks



> *It’s been six weeks since Gov. Ralph Northam (D) closed Virginia schools for the rest of the school year due to coronavirus panic, and the state’s third-wealthiest county still isn’t consistently teaching its nearly 190,000 students.*
> 
> Fairfax County Public Schools tried to finally roll out online instruction last week, more than four weeks into the shutdown. “That ended in massive technological troubles, possible privacy breaches and online harassment of students and teachers, which led Fairfax to cancel school for several days,” reports the Washington Post.
> 
> The district’s technology staff are refusing to take any blame for the fiasco, the Post reported, and *their union is demanding that they receive additional “hazard pay” even though students and teachers still can’t connect for learning.*


Bold mine.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Mustn't interrupt the narrative...

The Left is Panicking That the Pandemic Will Encourage Homeschooling



> Can’t have parents teaching children to think for themselves now, can we?


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Coronavirus Vs. The Deep State Educational Complex



> Post-coronavirus conditions will reveal many dramatic changes in our economy and society. A number of employers who were capable of having their employees work from home will have found that in many cases the situation was more efficient. But perhaps the most significant change will be its effect on education. *Recently a Deep State publication printed an article entitled "Homeschooling during the coronavirus will set back a generation of children.” In it an education "expert," Kevin Huffman, claims "The United States is embarking on a massive, months-long virtual-pedagogy experiment, and it is not likely to end well."* He has come to this conclusion because "years of research shows that online schooling is ineffective." Of course, this research was conducted by educational "experts" who might have an interest in denigrating "virtual-pedagogy."


Bold mine.

Right. 'Cause a couple or so generations of "progressive" education has done so much for western population as a whole...


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Harvard vs. the Family



> This June, pandemic conditions permitting, Harvard University will host a conference—not open to the public—to discuss the purported dangers of homeschooling and strategies for legal reform. The co-organizer, Harvard law professor Elizabeth Bartholet, believes that *homeschooling should be banned, as it is “a realm of near-absolute parental power. . . . inconsistent with a proper understanding of the human rights of children.*” The conference has caused a stir on social media, owing to a profile of Bartholet in Harvard magazine, accompanied by a cartoon of a forlorn-looking girl behind the barred windows of a house made out of books titled, “Reading, Writing, Arithmetic, Bible.”


Bold mine.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Alaskan School Board Removes Five Supposed ‘Controversial’ Books From Curriculum



> An Alaskan school board removed five supposed “controversial,” but famous books from its curriculum.
> 
> I’m sure you recognize the books. I’m sure you had to read at least one of them in high school, college, or both.
> 
> ...


:yikes:


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Not a surprise to anyone paying attention.

Study: Historic Drop in U.S. Reading and Math Scores Since Common Core ‘Debacle’



> “Nearly a decade after states adopted Common Core, the empirical evidence makes it clear that these national standards have yielded underwhelming results for students,” said Pioneer executive director Jim Stergios in a statement. “The proponents of this expensive, legally questionable policy initiative have much to answer for.”


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Damn those Christians!!!

Harvard Prof. Doubles Down: Many Homeschool Parents 'Extreme Ideologues,' Want to Raise Kids in Christian Faith



> Harvard Law Prof. Elizabeth Bartholet, who caused a stir in April by calling for a near-total ban on homeschooling, doubled down in a recent interview, complaining that "many homeschooling parents are extreme ideologues, committed to raising their children" in evangelical Christian "belief systems."
> 
> This apparently is very dangerous, according to Bartholet, "because society may not have the chance to teach them values important to the larger community, *such as tolerance of other people’s views and values*."


Bold mine.

This, coming from an adherent to the most bigoted, ideological portion of the political spectrum...:lmao::lmao::lmao:


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

The biggest issue I see with home schooling is that at some point, usually high schoo,l the kids are dropped into the mainstream system.

This usually happens at an age, where the need for friends is greatest, peer groups are locked into place, and those who reach out to the new kid in school tend to be the drug dealers. Overall a very bad combination.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

eMacMan said:


> The biggest issue I see with home schooling is that at some point, usually high schoo,l the kids are dropped into the mainstream system.
> 
> This usually happens at an age, where the need for friends is greatest, peer groups are locked into place, and those who reach out to the new kid in school tend to be the drug dealers. Overall a very bad combination.


I've seen systems where a large group of homeschoolers interact with each other, and go to various homes for different lessons.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Political cartoon nails it.

Now SAT testing is “racist” because being intelligent is discriminatory, but being STUPID is perfectly fine with the crybullies



> The National Association of Basketball Coaches (NABC) is pushing to end standardized testing at schools because, according to its members, the ACT and SAT tests are inherently “racist.”
> 
> The organization put out a statement alleging that standardized testing inhibits the ability of some of its players to gain entry into prestigious schools, thus constituting the “longstanding forces of institutional racism.”


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Related to the above:

Basketball Coaches Accuse SAT Of Racism So They Can Recruit Dumb Jocks



> A proposal recently released by The National Association of Basketball Coaches requests the NCAA remove an eligibility requirement to submit SAT or ACT scores. In the proposal, put forth by the Committee on Racial Reconciliation, the NABC decries the two tests as wicked forces of institutional racism that should be “jettisoned for that reason alone.” The committee was formed last month, and the proposal shows it.
> 
> Their argument runs like this: the SAT was created in 1926 by the eugenicist Carl Brigham. Brigham intended the test to demonstrate the racial superiority of white blood. His project, of course, failed.
> 
> ...


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Can't have the parents made aware of the level of indoctrination...

School District Making Parents Sign Waiver Agreeing Not To Monitor Virtual Instruction



> A school district in Tennessee is asking parents to sign a form agreeing not to monitor their children’s virtual classrooms over concerns that “non-student observers” could overhear confidential information.
> 
> The form, a copy of which was sent to the Tennessee Star, reads: “RCS strives to present these opportunities in a secure format that protects student privacy to the greatest extent possible, however, because these meetings will occur virtually RCS is limited in its ability to fully control certain factors such as non-student observers that may be present in the home of a student participating in the virtual meeting.”


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

FeXL said:


> Can't have the parents made aware of the level of indoctrination...
> 
> School District Making Parents Sign Waiver Agreeing Not To Monitor Virtual Instruction



Alberta's schools are going to try to shove masking and anti-social distancing down the throats of the students this fall. Now the primary advantage of a school over home education is kids learn how to (and not to) interact and socaialize. Not possible with the announced social repression agenda.


With that in mind if I had kids, you can bet I would be home schooling and one of the primary lessons I would attempt to teach is: Question everything. Especially anything being shoved down your throat via an all out media fear campaign.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Shoulda just transferred this to the Education thread from the get-go.

To summarize:
https://www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/19434-shangri-la-clubhouse-12604.html#post2725964


Freddie_Biff said:


> We started the new school year officially with students yesterday, albeit with one quarter of the population each day for the first four days. They call it “staggered entry.” So far so good. It’s nice to be back with actual students again. Everyone wears masks of course.


My reply:


eMacMan said:


> Yes wearing masks makes perfect sense unless you also consider: The 7-day average daily death toll for all of Canada is 6, about 1/30th of its May 7th peak; Canada is currently showing a grand total of 50 people hospitalized in serious or critical condition; Corona SARS 2 almost never affects children, remember SARS is an acronym for Severe *Adult* Respiratory Syndrome; and beyond all that, studies universally agree that masks are useless at preventing the spread of viruses.
> 
> Clearly drinking the Covid Kool-aid impairs peoples mathematical and comprehension abilities even more than common core math.


Freddie's response:


Freddie_Biff said:


> Alls I know is a mask sure halts transmission of aerosols whenever you sneeze. For that reason alone the hassle is worth it.


My Reply:


eMacMan said:


> Sorry I know you are a victim of the new math and throwing numbers at you is just outright cruelty.
> 
> IMO That's a pretty flimsy reason for mandating masks. Especially given my earlier comments. Still if my experiences out and about are any indicator, masks, coupled with anti-social distancing do make communication at least an order of magnitude more difficult. In plain English they muffle and garble voices. And I can't even imagine how difficult it has become for (partially) deaf students who are now being denied the ability to read lips. Betting that not one teacher in 1000 is proficient in signing.
> 
> 'Course everyone forgets the bacterial end of all of this, sneeze into a mask, load it up with bacteria, moisture and warmth, then re-breath the cocktail as the bacteria multiply by the hour and even the minute. Even better keep hitting them with hand sanitizer and turn them into super bacteria. Gives one good reason to suspect the intent of Gates, Soros et. al. is murder. Of course the fact that both are committed to removing 80-90% of the earths population might be coloring my view just a tinge.


Freddie in his inimitable manner, when he knows he has squat:


Freddie_Biff said:


> Why do have to be an asshole when you talk to me? I’m not being an asshole to you. I have protocols I have to work under whether you like them or not. Part of that is mask use. I’d sooner follow the directions of my employer over some doofus I only know from the internet. Have a nice day and stay safe or whatever floats your boat.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

It has since been pointed out to me that the official meaning of the SARS acronym is the completely, totally, absolutely redundant Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome. 

FWIW I have also seen it called Severe Airway Restriction Syndrome. 

Reminds me of trying to find the correct spelling of Athabasca, or is it Athabaska, no wait it's Athabascka.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

I think "I have to do what my employer tells me" is the best you can expect if you'll lose your job otherwise. I would do the same, even knowing that much of the reasoning is wrong.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Regardless Freddie and his cohorts have been begging to see class sizes reduced by 20%. I would think that a 75% size reduction would be wet dream territory.

BTW yesterday Canada reported it's first legitimate 0 death day. Had a previous one but that was on a weekend when some provinces, including Alberta, no longer bother to report.

Even so the kids seem doomed to attend class masked like bank robbers in perpetuity. Guess that's a good thing if you are trying to entrench obedience to the state into their impressionable skulls.

Locally two families I know have selected online teaching, for the simple reason that the entire masking charade makes zero sense to them.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

eMacMan said:


> Locally two families I know have selected online teaching, for the simple reason that the entire masking charade makes zero sense to them.


It makes no sense for children. They are being unconscionably burdened to zero effect. Let Freddie and his cronies wear the masks--not the kids.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Macfury said:


> I think "I have to do what my employer tells me" is the best you can expect if you'll lose your job otherwise. I would do the same, even knowing that much of the reasoning is wrong.


True, it was the name calling I was referring to, I shoulda been more specific. 

Since our teachers are unionized, if Freddie has figured out that he, and more importantly the kids, are being snookered he should be taking it up with his union, if not he is certainly behaving as Kenney and his Krauts expect and demand.

FWIW I can recall standing up to employers unreasonable demands on two occasions. One rethought it, the other fired me 10 days before Christmas. At least I got paid. Those who stuck around got stiffed for about a months pay when he went belly-up 3 months later.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Macfury said:


> I think "I have to do what my employer tells me" is the best you can expect if you'll lose your job otherwise. I would do the same, even knowing that much of the reasoning is wrong.



Exactly.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Apparently eMacMan can’t take a hint and moves people’s words from one thread to the other whether they’ve consented or not. Kind of an inconsiderate move in my opinion.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

eMacMan said:


> Shoulda just transferred this to the Education thread from the get-go.


What's this? The Shang is becoming political?

Better turn that $h!t off, else it's going to be open season in ehMac's last Prog bastion... beejacon:lmao:


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Freddie_Biff said:


> Apparently eMacMan can’t take a hint and moves people’s words from one thread to the other whether they’ve consented or not. Kind of an inconsiderate move in my opinion.


I think he was trying to move any political discussion of the issue out of that forum. But I agree that it would have been better to simply provide a link to the original comments, instead of copying them.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

Macfury said:


> I think he was trying to move any political discussion of the issue out of that forum. But I agree that it would have been better to simply provide a link to the original comments, instead of copying them.



Thing is, it wasn’t even a political discussion; eMacMan decided he wanted to make it one. I was talking about how it was good but weird to be back at school and I mentioned that everyone was wearing masks now, which was different than when we left last March. I offered no opinion on the usefulness or lack thereof of masks. They’ve just become a necessary evil in my workplace and many others. Wasn’t really interested in debating the merits of them. 

Anyway, it is good to be back. And weird.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Freddie_Biff said:


> Thing is, it wasn’t even a political discussion; eMacMan decided he wanted to make it one. I was talking about how it was good but weird to be back at school and I mentioned that everyone was wearing masks now, which was different than when we left last March. I offered no opinion on the usefulness or lack thereof of masks. They’ve just become a necessary evil in my workplace and many others. Wasn’t really interested in debating the merits of them.
> 
> Anyway, it is good to be back. And weird.


Yes, eMacMan did not want to create a political discussion there is all, so he meant well.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Freddie_Biff said:


> Thing is, it wasn’t even a political discussion; eMacMan decided he wanted to make it one. I was talking about how it was good but weird to be back at school and I mentioned that everyone was wearing masks now, which was different than when we left last March. I offered no opinion on the usefulness or lack thereof of masks. *They’ve just become a necessary evil in my workplace and many others. *Wasn’t really interested in debating the merits of them.
> 
> Anyway, it is good to be back. And weird.


 Sorry you can criticize for posting it in the Shang or criticize me for moving it, not both. The quotes are accurate and unedited. Presumably you stand by them. My link puts you in the starting place should anyone wish to follow in the original thread.

BTW that bolded sentence is so very close to being accurate it's uncanny. Prefix necessary with an 'un' and you have illustrated a clear understanding of the situation.

Still curious as to how having everyone talk through masks impacts effective communication. I have observed it makes it pretty much impossible at Canadian Tire, especially if one party is almost deaf.


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## Freddie_Biff (Sep 20, 2016)

eMacMan said:


> Sorry you can criticize for posting it in the Shang or criticize me for moving it, not both. The quotes are accurate and unedited. Presumably you stand by them. My link puts you in the starting place should anyone wish to follow in the original thread.
> 
> BTW that bolded sentence is so very close to being accurate it's uncanny. Prefix necessary with an 'un' and you have illustrated a clear understanding of the situation.
> 
> Still curious as to how having everyone talk through masks impacts effective communication. I have observed it makes it pretty much impossible at Canadian Tire, especially if one party is almost deaf.



Yes, masks suck for deaf people, but it’s all we have for now. Fortunately I have no deaf students this semester. As a teacher, if I can maintain a six feet distance between me and the nearest student, I can remove my mask as per school policy. I put it on again if I have to move through the classroom handing out peppers or what not. Masks are not the be-all and the end-all but they do help to reduce transmission of the virus via aerosols. Clear enough now? You can focus exclusively on deaf students if you want, and perhaps clear masks are a solution, but right now cotton or polyester non-medical masks are the standard solution. My students could hear me through a mask well enough as long as they were quiet themselves.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Shocka...



Freddie_Biff said:


> Masks are not the be-all and the end-all...


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

So Teachers are not wearing masks except when violating the 3', 5', 6', 1M, 1.5M or 2M rule depending on which country. Canada being 2M. The lack of consistency or scientific research on that is of course appalling. 

Kids are masked?

Just an FYI. in Canada there have been a total of 1 Covid related deaths of those under 19. There have been a total of 150 hospitalizations of that age group and 29 admissions to ICU. Our 7-day average daily death toll is now down to 4 and there are just over 50 hospitalizations.

Again the entire masking thing seems like extreme overkill, unless the purpose is dehumanizing the kids.


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## FeXL (Jan 2, 2004)

Perhaps, just maybe, they're not as stupid as they appear...

*Woke Math Is Unworkable*




> California is rethinking its plans to replace real math with woke math. Or is it social justice math? Or maybe, it’s Critical Math Theory. The notion being that because of systemic racism, math should be taught in a non-racial, non-gendered way. In other words, actually expecting children to learn math is imposing racist values and restrictions on them. However, after a letter from STEM experts pointing out what a monumental mistake it would be to infect math with politics, the State Board of Education m[a]y in fact walk this blunder back. I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were you, but at least this lunacy has been put on pause for the moment. And for the sake of the kids in California, I hope cooler heads prevail. I don’t expect them to, but I hope they will.


Related:

*I remember when we learned math to get ahead in life*



> To be honest, I hated math. It was my least favorite subject in school, and I took the required courses to graduate. During one frustrating bout with my math homework, my teacher gave me a motherly look and said: "I know you hate this, but someday you'll have to balance a checkbook and appreciate it."
> 
> Well, my ninth-grade teacher was right. I did need math to keep my checkbook in line. It also came in very handy when I was calculating baseball averages.
> So I told my sons to shut up and do their math because it was important.
> Over in California, the teaching of math has taken an interesting turn.


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