# Have Canada's Olympics Failed Already?



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Given the number of complaints about the luge track, should it be closed down and eliminated from this Olympics? Many think the answer to that question is yes.



> Olympics Opening Ceremony Lacking Proper Respect For Dead
> 
> Games' first day should have been time of mourning after luger's death
> 
> ...


Emphasis mine.

Opening Ceremony lacking proper respect for dead :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Rick Morrissey


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

accidents happen. I'm sure the athletes know there is inherent risks within particular sports.

I think shutting down the track and event would punish the other athletes who have trained for 4 years preparing for the event.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

The investigation determined that the rider made a mistake. 

Let the experts do their thing and decide if the course is safe or not. Any event where people are going fast is dangerous. That goes for skiing and skating as well.

It's sad that somebody lost their life, but I think the event needs to go on.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

i-rui said:


> accidents happen. I'm sure the athletes know there is inherent risks within particular sports.
> 
> I think shutting down the track and event would punish the other athletes who have trained for 4 years preparing for the event.


So, allowing the track to remain open and the track to continue is just fine even when the danger level from too much speed is extreme and more deaths are entirely possible?


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

SINC, nobody moves nobody gets hurt. The athletes know the risks. They can make their own choices. Don't like it, then wait another four years.


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## i-rui (Sep 13, 2006)

SINC said:


> So, allowing the track to remain open and the track to continue is just fine even when the danger level from too much speed is extreme and more deaths are entirely possible?


isn't there a chance of serious injury on EVERY luge track in the world?

if the luge athletes think the event should be cancelled then i'd agree there might be a point, but from what i've read & heard they want to move forward. As far as i'm concerned it's their call.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Vandave said:


> SINC, nobody moves nobody gets hurt. The athletes know the risks. They can make their own choices. Don't like it, then wait another four years.





i-rui said:


> if the luge athletes think the event should be cancelled then i'd agree there might be a point, but from what i've read & heard they want to move forward. As far as i'm concerned it's their call.


My question goes to the athletes quoted in the story who complain the poor design of the track and the excessive speed is endangering their lives. Does no one listen to them?

And further I think the reopening of the track should be a matter of a fatality inquiry outcome by proper authorities in the interest of preventing a repeat performance, not the IOC.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

SINC said:


> My question goes to the athletes quoted in the story who complain the poor design of the track and the excessive speed is endangering their lives. Does no one listen to them?
> 
> And further I think the reopening of the track should be a matter of a fatality inquiry outcome by proper authorities in the interest of preventing a repeat performance, not the IOC.


They have slowed the track down to be safe and added more barriers.

If some athletes don't want to participate they can sit out. Why stop somebody else from living their dream if they feel the risks are acceptable?


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## adagio (Aug 23, 2002)

Many sports are dangerous and at the Olympics more so since athletes are going all out. 

No, I don't think anything should be cancelled and I don't understand the complaint about the opening ceremony. The tragic event of earlier in the day was nicely acknowledged. I'm not a fan of Olympics but I don't get the the whining going on today. The fact of the matter is thousands of folks have put their hearts and souls into these events, whether it be athletes, performers and volunteers. As sad as this death is, to cancel anything serves no purpose. As for the luge run itself, officials have gone over it and made some changes. If any athlete doesn't like these modifications they are free to sit these games out.


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

The article is BS about proper respect during the opening ceremony. It was mentioned many times. There was a proper, full minute of silence. The president mentioning the incident was visibly upset about the incident. When the team from Georgia came out, the entire stadium stood up and applauded the team out of respect. 

It's a horribly tragedy. *It's sickening to me though how I see right through people using this tragedy as a mere soap box to voice their displeasure at the Olympics.*


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ehMax said:


> *It's sickening to me though how I see right through people using this tragedy as a mere soap box to voice their displeasure at the Olympics.*


Nice shot there Mr. Mayor, you may want to give yourself a vacation for that one.

I posted the story because that is the way the ceremonies were perceived by other nations and it should be noted and discussed. I certainly didn't write it.

I even posted it outside the Olympic thread as YOU requested. So much for reasonable debate when I am belittled by the mayor himself.


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

SINC said:


> Nice shot there Mr. Mayor, you may want to give yourself a vacation for that one.
> 
> I posted the story because that is the way the ceremonies were perceived by other nations and it should be noted and discussed. I certainly didn't write it.
> 
> I even posted it outside the Olympic thread as YOU requested. So much for reasonable debate when I am belittled by the mayor himself.


*BS SINC. *

It's you who wrote and named the thread, "Have the Olympics failed already?" That had nothing to do with the article. 

You took the time to put your *own bolded emphasis* in the stupid article that you decided to pull from a Chicago paper. 

You also couldn't resist posting in the Olympic thread your Olympic negativity. "+1 Pathetic indeed. If the rest of our showing is of this calibre, goodbye gold, and maybe goodbye podium entirely." So much for keeping it outside the Olympic thread. 

So please spare me the BS that you want a reasonable debate. You don't like the Olympics and you'll use any excuse to say something negative about them, including using the horrible tragedy as a reason to suggest that the Olympics have already failed. Shame on you.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ehMax said:


> *BS SINC. *
> 
> It's you who wrote and named the thread, "Have the Olympics failed already?" That had nothing to do with the article.
> 
> ...


I guess you didn't notice the question mark on the thread title did you?

That's not an opinion, that's asking if the Olympics have failed or not. And that is a reasonable question given the criticism in the article by the author.


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

SINC said:


> I posted the story because that is the way the ceremonies were perceived by other nations


This is the way the ceremonies were perceived by on biased writer in another nation with apparently an axe to grind.


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

SINC said:


> That's not an opinion, that's asking if the Olympics have failed or not. And that is a reasonable question given the criticism in the article by the author.


The question is negative to begin with. It's hardly neutral.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Vandave said:


> The question is negative to begin with. It's hardly neutral.


Of course it's not neutral and it was not intended to be. The author of the story implied Canadians were wrong by not putting enough emphasis on the death at the ceremonies and further that the track was not safe. I wanted response to his criticisms, thus the question.

Whether I support the Olympics or not, and for the record I don't, is not part of the issue. I happen to agree with the author. Obviously you don't and therein lies the debate.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

SINC said:


> Of course it's not neutral and it was not intended to be. The author of the story implied *Canadians were wrong by not putting enough emphasis on the death at the ceremonies* and further that the track was not safe. I wanted response to his criticisms, thus the question.
> 
> Whether I support the Olympics or not, and for the record I don't, is not part of the issue. I happen to agree with the author. Obviously you don't and therein lies the debate.


What would you have seen as an appropriate response SINC?


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

CanadaRAM said:


> This is the way the ceremonies were perceived by on biased writer in another nation with apparently an axe to grind.


90% of the comments from users under that article are all calling out the author. The remaining 9% are people who don't like Canada or don't like "Ice Olympics" to begin with. 1% actually agree with him.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

screature said:


> What would you have seen as an appropriate response SINC?


From a poster who was an Olympic fan? A rebuttal to the author's opinion and some type of justification or explanation why the author was wrong. A few did that in their own brief way by comments like, "perceived by on biased writer in another nation with apparently an axe to grind", or "I think shutting down the track and event would punish the other athletes who have trained for 4 years preparing for the event" or "SINC, nobody moves nobody gets hurt. The athletes know the risks. They can make their own choices" or even "No, I don't think anything should be cancelled and I don't understand the complaint about the opening ceremony".

All of the above are appropriate and directed at the article and the author's opinion.

But this was directed squarely at me:



ehMax said:


> The article is BS about proper respect during the opening ceremony. It was mentioned many times. There was a proper, full minute of silence. The president mentioning the incident was visibly upset about the incident. When the team from Georgia came out, the entire stadium stood up and applauded the team out of respect.
> 
> It's a horribly tragedy. *It's sickening to me though how I see right through people using this tragedy as a mere soap box to voice their displeasure at the Olympics.*


The article was in one of the largest papers in the US and is far from BS. It was the opinion of a journalist employed by the Sun-Times and the paper never would have run the story had the editors not agreed the opinion was valid.

The second paragraph was a direct personal attack on me.

Does that clear up my expectations for you?


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

SINC said:


> Of course it's not neutral and it was not intended to be. The author of the story implied Canadians were wrong by not putting enough emphasis on the death at the ceremonies and further that the track was not safe. I wanted response to his criticisms, thus the question.
> 
> Whether I support the Olympics or not, and for the record I don't, is not part of the issue. I happen to agree with the author. Obviously you don't and therein lies the debate.


OK, so you agree then.

You first said that you didn't give an opinion and now you agree that you did, and a negative one at that.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Vandave said:


> OK, so you agree then.
> 
> You first said that you didn't give an opinion and now you agree that you did, and a negative one at that.


No, I don't agree. I clearly asked the question to get other members feedback on the issues raised by the author. In order to do that, the question had to reflect his opinion, which happened to be negative.


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## Vandave (Feb 26, 2005)

SINC said:


> No, I don't agree. I clearly asked the question to get other members feedback on the issues raised by the author. In order to do that, the question had to reflect his opinion, which happened to be negative.


Had to?

How about a question like, "How do you think the Olympics are doing so far?"


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

> Opening Ceremony too joyful


Apparently the opening ceremony was deemed too joyful. Give me a break. 



MazterCBlazter said:


> The complaints were not heeded, the show and pomp is clearly more important than safety.


If you've got half a brain cell you can easily find that the track had been adjusted before AND after the incident.

But that would be less dramatic, I guess.

Pomp indeed. :lmao:

Pull up your pants, your bias is showing.


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## Manatus (May 11, 2009)

For my part, I don't believe that the Olympics have failed. Yes, it's a black mark and raises some questions, and perhaps it could have been handled better (personally though I was very impressed by the reaction of the Georgian contingent and how the ordinary people treated them), but I think it's far too early to say that whatever happens after this is meaningless.

However, I personally was disgusted by the way that the broadcasters treated this, showing the full footage on the news of this poor fellow hurtling down the track when all the viewers knew he was about to die, and then him smashing into that metal pole. I understand that it's a newsworthy event and should definitely be reported on, but I think that showing the video during the news was unnecessary, and as far as I know not the usual way that the media treats deadly accidents. The BBC's live blog of the opening ceremony said that "Some Canadian broadcasters showing the footage of luge accident. I have to say that I find that decision totally tasteless and outrageous."


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

SINC said:


> From a poster who was an Olympic fan?....
> 
> Does that clear up my expectations for you?


Sorry SINC what I meant by my question was, what do you think an appropriate response at the opening ceremonies would have been.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Manatus said:


> For my part, I don't believe that the Olympics have failed. Yes, it's a black mark and raises some questions, and perhaps it could have been handled better (personally though I was very impressed by the reaction of the Georgian contingent and how the ordinary people treated them), but I think it's far too early to say that whatever happens after this is meaningless.
> 
> However, *I personally was disgusted by the way that the broadcasters treated this, showing the full footage on the news of this poor fellow hurtling down the track when all the viewers knew he was about to die, and then him smashing into that metal pole*. I understand that it's a newsworthy event and should definitely be reported on, but I think that showing the video during the news was unnecessary, and as far as I know not the usual way that the media treats deadly accidents. The BBC's live blog of the opening ceremony said that "Some Canadian broadcasters showing the footage of luge accident. I have to say that I find that decision totally tasteless and outrageous."


I agree. Some people would think that you lead a sheltered life for believing such a thing. But like they say in news: If it bleeds, it leads.


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## l84toff (Jul 27, 2008)

Did you watch the ceremonies SINC? What should they have done differently? I happened to have watched most of the opening ceremonies. Their acknowledgment of Nodar Kumaritashvili's death was quite appropriate imho. I imagine some people would only be happy with the cancellation of the ceremonies and even perhaps the Olympics themselves. 

This was a sad event, there is no doubt!

Unfortunately there is inherent danger in the Olympics themselves or any professional sport for that matter. These athletes push themselves harder and go faster then 99.9999999% of the world population. Serious injury and even death will happen.

Over 36,000 people die every year as a result of motor vehicle accidents in US alone (significantly less in Canada). That's around 100 people each and every day. Yet people continue to get in their cars and drive to work or to the store or to pick up their kids from soccer practice every day. Drivers Ed classes continue - we're putting 16 year olds on the street behind the wheel of several thousand pounds of steel.

My point is that there is danger in almost everything we do in life. We all accept the risks and try to minimize them but we all continue with our lives. So do these athletes - they are very aware of the stakes involved. 

I do however believe that if the majority of participants in a given sport are all saying the same thing (i.e. this track is too fast and too dangerous) - then the organizers must listen and make changes to enhance the safety of the athletes; I believe that was done. 

RIP Nodar Kumaritashvili


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## titans88 (Oct 3, 2007)

screature said:


> What would you have seen as an appropriate response SINC?


It seems as though SINC would like the IOC to admit failure and cancel the games perhaps?

It saddens me when a tragedy become becomes an opportunity for people to bring down an event that is clearly intended to bring people together. For anyone to suggest that this was not dealt with properly during the opening ceremonies is ridiculous. There were two speeches that talked at length about what happened, and there was a moment of silence. Should we allow something awful to ruin the whole spirit of the games from that point on? Dwelling on something so negative would be a disservice to all of the athletes who have trained their butts off for the last 4 years to compete in these Games.


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## Manatus (May 11, 2009)

MannyP Design said:


> I agree. Some people would think that you lead a sheltered life for believing such a thing. But like they say in news: If it bleeds, it leads.


I would have no problem if they reported it like every other accident, explaining that a tragedy has occurred, showing footage of him being evacuated by helicopter etc, talking about the potential danger of the sport/track etc... by no means should it be marginalized. I just feel that there was no point, other than shock value, to show the footage of him doing his run, when the entire audience knows that at some point he's going to fly off course, crash at a horrifying speed and die in front of them.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

screature said:


> Sorry SINC what I meant by my question was, what do you think an appropriate response at the opening ceremonies would have been.





l84toff said:


> Did you watch the ceremonies SINC? What should they have done differently?


Sorry screature, I misunderstood your question.

But I can answer both your and i84toff's questions at once. Yes I watched the ceremonies and posted that I agreed with John Clay in the other Olympic thread:



John Clay said:


> Anyone else ashamed at how pathetic and sappy the opening cermonies were? Possibly worst of all was the singing of Oh Canada. It's not a pop song, it's a national anthem.


But nowhere have I wrote that I thought the ceremonies mishandled acknowledging the accident.

Why do people insist on assuming my opinion mirrors that of the writer of the story I posted? It doesn't.

To be honest, I don't know of any other way they could have handled the situation any better given the timing.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

SINC said:


> No, I don't agree. I clearly asked the question to get other members feedback on the issues raised by the author. In order to do that, the question had to reflect his opinion, which happened to be negative.


I'm sorry SINC, but I can smell the BS all the way in Kitchener, and I'm simply calling your actions out on this. I'm not personally attacking you, or hurling an insult at you, so stop the pathetic attempt at trying to point this on me. 

YOU posted a thread with the title, "Have Canada's Olympics Failed Already?" That's not the author's rhetorical question at all, *that's YOUR "question".* 

Fair enough, your opinion on the Olympics is quite obvious. 

The problem is, and what I am calling you out on, is you using:

1. The tragic death of the luger

2. A random article from a journo in Chicago about the opening ceremonies "Lacking respect for the dead"...

... To start a rant thread on the Olympics with YOUR "question", "Have Canada's Olympics Failed Already?"

You had zero intentions on debate, you simply wanted to rant on the Olympics and you used this tragedy and this random opinion article on the opening ceremonies to do so, and I say shame on you.  Also shame on this journo for which almost all the comments under his article call him out. 

There was a lot of outpouring of emotions over the dead athlete during the opening ceremonies. A LOT. When Screature asked you SINC, "What would you have seen as an appropriate response SINC?" I'm pretty sure he meant what response would you have liked the Olympic Organizers to do? 10 minutes of silence? 5 Speeches mentioning it with the speaker getting choked up? Or perhaps cancel the event that 3.5 Billion people where going to watch that took organizers half a decade to prepare for? 

I say the journo who wrote that article is the one not respecting the dead. The man who died, probably dedicated a major portion of his life to the sport of Luge. I'm guessing about 100x more than this jerk dedicated to the art of good journalism. But he goes on to say, "There are some Winter Olympics sports that *look like the result of a lost bar bet* and several others that serve as apparent proof that nothing good can happen in a mountain sauna at 2 a.m.
*Luge is one of those goofy sports*, and it doesn't have to apologize for being something that makes people smile.* There are few things more innocent or fun than taking a child's ride down a snowy hill*.

Yeah, that's real respectful there journo from Chicago to the dead athlete. A$$hole. 

I will say it again, it *SICKENS ME* for anyone who uses this tragedy as a soapbox to rant on the Olympics. Shame. Shame. Shame.


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## ehMax (Feb 17, 2000)

SINC said:


> Why do people insist on assuming my opinion mirrors that of the writer of the story I posted?


Oh I don't know, the fact that you bolded about half the article for your "own emphasis"? 

That one of the comments you bolded was: "Unfortunately, the people who put on the Opening Ceremony either didn't get the memo, didn't see the video or were too tied to their schedule to adapt. The only mentions of the luger's death Friday came before and toward the end of the festivities at BC Place."

Yeah, the article doesn't mirror your viewpoint. Yeah, sure. You always make a habit of posting articles on ehMac and bolding various sections of the article because they are different viewpoint than yours and you enjoy pointing out different viewpoints than yours for discussion. 

What's more of a stench, the smell of the BS from this thread, or the taste of someone's foot in their mouth? 

The above sentence is not my opinion or anything, I'm just putting that out there for debate. :heybaby: It's not my opinion if I put a little "?" at the end.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

SINC said:


> Sorry screature, I misunderstood your question.
> 
> But I can answer both your and i84toff's questions at once. Yes I watched the ceremonies and posted that I agreed with John Clay in the other Olympic thread:
> 
> ...


Ok, without hunting down that response, basically you are saying that you think the response to the accident at the opening ceremonies was appropriate/all that could reasonably expected? Is that a correct interpretation of your own beliefs?


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Manatus said:


> I would have no problem if they reported it like every other accident, explaining that a tragedy has occurred, showing footage of him being evacuated by helicopter etc, talking about the potential danger of the sport/track etc... by no means should it be marginalized. I just feel that there was no point, other than shock value, to show the footage of him doing his run, when the entire audience knows that at some point he's going to fly off course, crash at a horrifying speed and die in front of them.


I know what you are saying, but that is the nature of media reporting for the last half century at least. I personally don't believe that it is shocking or surprising that this footage is being shown (at whatever frequency the networks are showing it). This is common place and a reality that will not change, no matter how much some of us might wish it would. No one forces anyone to watch... even once.

(And just a point based on what I have read... From what I have read, he didn't die until he was at hospital... I know it is a hair splitting point... but it refers to the inherent drama/shock and resultant outrage of showing the footage.)


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

screature said:


> Ok, without hunting down that response, basically you are saying that you think the response to the accident at the opening ceremonies was appropriate/all that could reasonably expected? Is that a correct interpretation of your own beliefs?


Yep, that's what I meant. Given the circumstances, they had little other choice. I had no issues with that part of the ceremonies, but don't even get me started on Oh Canada.


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## keebler27 (Jan 5, 2007)

i wonder how the weather is going to play out.

when Vancouver was awarded the games, my 1st thought was," Is that one of the warmest places in Canada so how's that going to work?!?"

and sure enough, lots of rain, no snow. it doesn't feel like the Olympics from what I remember watching (ie. looks cold, snow everywhere, not one singular weather forecast).

I think weather is turning out to be a terrible factor.

Add the luger's death, add the minor, but slightly embarrassing mechanical torch part not raising and it's not off to a great start unfortunately.... imho.

let's be positive and hope it changes.

plus the rioters - have ppl rioted in other cities before? I don't seem to remember it happening?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ehMax said:


> You always make a habit of posting articles on ehMac and bolding various sections of the article because they are different viewpoint than yours and you enjoy pointing out different viewpoints than yours for discussion.
> 
> What's more of a stench, the smell of the BS from this thread, or the taste of someone's foot in their mouth?
> 
> The above sentence is not my opinion or anything, I'm just putting that out there for debate. :heybaby: It's not my opinion if I put a little "?" at the end.


There are many others who post articles and bold items in them to make their point or to highlight the points made by the author as in my case. Some even use bright red. I can think of posts in the two GWG threads doing exactly this for years now, followed by insulting comments about "deniers" and nothing is ever said or objected to when that happens. 

Why the sudden condemnation of the commonly accepted tactic of bolding a paragraph?

I'm trying to understand why such a long tirade about a simple question and reading so much into it. I say again, none of the opinions expressed in that article were mine. I agreed with some of them, but not all of them, but I certainly don't call authors of articles in major newspapers a$$holes either.

As I wrote previously, his editors must have thought it to be fair comment or it never would have been published. That's the way any newspaper works. 

My foot is nowhere near my mouth. I stand by what I wrote and the original question I asked. It was legitimate given the story content.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

MazterCBlazter said:


> It's at least half more than you have got going for you.


No need for that MCB... Time for a time out...


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Can we all agre that this was a tragedy... And as such let us all, regardless of our perspective on the matter, please offer up our condolences for Nodar Kumaritashvili and family, friends and team mates.

With all due respect discussing matters of blame etc. are best left until the suffering/shock have subsided... there is plenty of time for that.

A man, doing that which few of us ever would dare to do and in pursuing his passion, has died in the pursuit of being the best that he could be at that which he loved.

Please let us not let his tragic death serve to be a point of division and derision amongst our community at this point in time.

Out of respect for the fallen, I would ask that the Mayor consider closing this thread.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

SINC said:


> ... but don't even get me started on Oh Canada.


If there is a God, he will whack the anthem selectors over the head until they pick a different version should Canada win a gold.


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## fellfromtree (May 18, 2005)

The article as posted is quite ridiculous in suggesting an event planned for *years* should have been changed considerably a few hours before it started, to be a subdued discreet celebration. (my bold)

The article suggests the opening ceremony was flawed. The thread suggests the entire games are a failure. Not that I know anything about journalism, but I have heard that journalists don't write the headline. In this case, I wonder if the journalist who wrote the story would think "Canada's Olympics a failure already' accurately describes the intent of his article as posted. I wonder if SINC juggled a few thread title ideas, and maybe 'Chicago journalist didn't like opening ceremonies' wasn't provocative enough.

This reminds me of the US media kerfuffle a few weeks ago, when a snow boarder was injured in qualifying while doing a difficult trick.


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## gwillikers (Jun 19, 2003)

Okay, everyone go home and have your mom's wipe your noses, and then we'll meet back here for a game of shinny (road hockey).

Car!


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

MazterCBlazter said:


> MannyPDesign has been jabbing at me here and there with a :lmao: thrown in, so I say one comment back at him and you say I should have a time out?


Here and there? Please. 

But seriously. Why even bother making posts without even bothering to research it first?


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

gwillikers said:


> Okay, everyone go home and have your mom's wipe your noses, and then we'll meet back here for a game of shinny (road hockey).
> 
> Car!


That picture is just gross gwillikers! Eeewwh, yuck...


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## jimbotelecom (May 29, 2009)

So far I'm completely disappointed with CTV's coverage. They have some real bimbos (both sexes) hosting segments that seem to dwell on looks and gossip.

Too bad that the CBC was outbid. They do a far better job.


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## Manatus (May 11, 2009)

jimbotelecom said:


> So far I'm completely disappointed with CTV's coverage. They have some real bimbos (both sexes) hosting segments that seem to dwell on looks and gossip.
> 
> Too bad that the CBC was outbid. They do a far better job.


Not to mention their Olympics commercials...


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

If you have cable, the sports channel coverage tends to be better than the main CTV coverage. Covers live events rather than doing sidebars and interviews.


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## jamesB (Jan 28, 2007)

I just love reading this thread, reminds me of my early days on the linux news-groups.


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## gwillikers (Jun 19, 2003)

screature said:


> That picture is just gross gwillikers! Eeewwh, yuck...


But in a cute kind of gross kind of funny kind of way.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

gwillikers said:


> But in a cute kind of gross kind of funny kind of way.


Ok... If you say so... My wife would gag looking at it... snot is just one of her pet peeves.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

For some strange reason the language police in Ottawa & Quebec claim that French was under-represented at the opening ceremonies. Personally I found the Rogge epic boring in English. Repeating it in French was cruel and unusual punishment. Saying everything twice makes for an extremely dull ceremony. 

I noted that the athletes vow was done in English while the officials pledge was in French. I have no problem with that. Repeating everything in both languages would only have made for a duller presentation.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

The Calgary Herald's view . . .


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## ErnstNL (Apr 12, 2003)

I've got to disagree with that cartoon Sinc, it's not the athletes (except Sidney Crosby) that are ranting about winning at all costs, it's all the advertising telling us that our athletes will win at all costs. From the interviews and stories I've seen, the athletes are all humble-like a good Canadian should be...


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

ErnstNL said:


> I've got to disagree with that cartoon Sinc, it's not the athletes (except Sidney Crosby) that are ranting about winning at all costs, it's all the advertising telling us that our athletes will win at all costs. From the interviews and stories I've seen, the athletes are all humble-like a good Canadian should be...


Hey, feel free to disagree, it's not my cartoon. I just post what others are saying about these Olympics.

Everyone does and should have an opinion about the Olympics, and I post things like this to raise awareness of what is being said out there. I might add I do so at the risk of raising the ire of members who feel otherwise.


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

SINC said:


> Hey, feel free to disagree, it's not my cartoon. I just post what others are saying about these Olympics.
> 
> Everyone does and should have an opinion about the Olympics, and I post things like this to raise awareness of what is being said out there. I might add I do so at the risk of raising the ire of members who feel otherwise.


What was it about that cartton that made you want to post it SINC? Did you agree with it? Disagree?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

ErnstNL said:


> I've got to disagree with that cartoon Sinc, it's not the athletes (except Sidney Crosby) that are ranting about winning at all costs, it's all the advertising telling us that our athletes will win at all costs. From the interviews and stories I've seen, the athletes are all humble-like a good Canadian should be...


I agree, ErnstNL. I am not a supporter of the Olympics, and do not feel that the hockey professionals should even be there at any time. Still, if the truth be known, I do hope that certain athletes do well and win ........... and not just those from Canada. I would like to see the unsupported athletes from traditionally non-Winter Olympic countries do well enough to win or at least get some recognition. Imagine an athlete from Costa Rica or Ghana or Nepal or Peru doing well??? Since I would assume they are not being sponsored by corportations or even their own governments, they are true amatures. 

So, kudos to the likes of Tanja Karisik from Bosnia who finished 88th (last) in the Biathlon - Women’s 7.5 Kilometre Sprint -- nearly 5 1/2 hours behind the gold medalist. She did her best and went on to finish. That is a true athlete, in my opinion.

Paix, mon ami.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

mrjimmy said:


> What was it about that cartton that made you want to post it SINC? Did you agree with it? Disagree?


I had not thought about it mrjimmy, as I don't follow the Olympics. The reason I posted it was to see if others might have comments about the cartoon which I saw in my paper that arrived in the mailbox this morning.

I found it odd that a paper in a former host city would hold the view that Canadian's attitudes have changed since the Calgary Olympics.

Once again though, rather than offering your thoughts on the cartoon, you choose to interrogate me as to my thoughts, and in doing so you seem to presume that I have some ulterior motive in posting it. That is disappointing as too many jump to that conclusion.

I'm not interested in comments about what you think I think. I already know what I think.

What you think about the cartoon is more to the point.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"What you think about the cartoon is more to the point. " A valid point, Sinc. Sadly, I think that there is a great deal of hype with these Olympics, much more than in Calgary (at least according to my wife who lived in Calgary and was a volunteer back in '88).

I expect the "We're Number One!!!" attitude from some countries and athletes, but since I don't fault any Canadian athlete for not getting to the medals podium, I don't feel that an athlete who does his/her best in his/her sport should feel any shame or think that they let Canada down by not getting a medal.


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## Manatus (May 11, 2009)

I agree with Ernst, in my opinion it's a lot more the public's perception than the athletes themselves. For months now we've been hearing about owning the podium, how this is our time, about "Believe" and how Canada is an Olympic powerhouse... and let's face it, 95% of us never watch any of these events, except hockey and curling, outside of the Olympics. We couldn't name most of these athletes if we were paid to. Pretty much all the Average Joe knows comes from what the media tells us, and they tell us that Canada should "win" these games, so we start to expect and demand that. I think a lot of people desperately want to be proud and patriotic about things that they really know nothing about, which places a lot of demands on our athletes. In some ways it's a rude awakening when we actually start watching the coverage and find out that it isn't always the Canadians who are favourites or the best in the world.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Manatus said:


> I agree with Ernst, in my opinion it's a lot more the public's perception than the athletes themselves. For months now we've been hearing about owning the podium, how this is our time, about "Believe" and how Canada is an Olympic powerhouse... and let's face it, 95% of us never watch any of these events, except hockey and curling, outside of the Olympics. We couldn't name most of these athletes if we were paid to. Pretty much all the Average Joe knows comes from what the media tells us, and they tell us that Canada should "win" these games, so we start to expect and demand that. I think a lot of people desperately want to be proud and patriotic about things that they really know nothing about, which places a lot of demands on our athletes. In some ways it's a rude awakening when we actually start watching the coverage and find out that it isn't always the Canadians who are favourites or the best in the world.


Great analysis Manatus. That not only displays an understanding of the cartoon, but gives others food for thought. That reply is a good example of why I posted the cartoon. Thanks.


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

I don't know what expectations foreigners had in coming here, but we sure have a great number of ...ehmmm...technical difficulties.

washingtonpost.com


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

SINC said:


> I'm not interested in comments about what you think I think. I already know what I think.


Well that's the beauty of a public forum isn't it? I'm not interested in the the comments you _allegedly_ wish to ellicit from me. I'm more interested in your phantom editorialism.


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## jef (Dec 9, 2007)

Manatus said:


> and let's face it, 95% of us never watch any of these events, except hockey and curling, outside of the Olympics.


Someone actually watches curling? Really?


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## keebler27 (Jan 5, 2007)

jef said:


> Someone actually watches curling? Really?


it's one of the most strategic sports around. fantastic to watch once you have even a slight idea of what they're trying to do. it's a big dance of strategy and then the players have to follow through on their shots and if they don't, it impacts the strategy again.

i never really cared about curling when i was younger, but my wife's family all curl and now that i understand the game a bit, I enjoy watching it.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

mrjimmy said:


> Well that's the beauty of a public forum isn't it? I'm not interested in the the comments you _allegedly_ wish to ellicit from me. I'm more interested in your phantom editorialism.


Nor am I interested in being continually harassed for perceived imaginary things in your mind. That will be my last comment to you.


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## groovetube (Jan 2, 2003)

mrjimmy said:


> Well that's the beauty of a public forum isn't it? I'm not interested in the the comments you _allegedly_ wish to ellicit from me. I'm more interested in your phantom editorialism.


passive aggressive posting.


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## Manatus (May 11, 2009)

jef said:


> Someone actually watches curling? Really?


I watch curling, sometimes.. it obviously isn't as big as hockey, but the major tournaments get covered live on major TV channels, the players get mentioned in the newspaper, etc. Contrast that with something like speed skating, which I would like to see more of - you really don't hear about it at all outside of the Olympics and Olympic qualifying/preparation, unless you're a big fan of the sport and actively search for it. If one of those annoying CTV commercials tells me that Jeremy Wotherspoon is a great skater who has somehow never won Olympic gold, that's pretty much what I know about him, other than his name mentioned in the news here and there.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

keebler27 said:


> it's one of the most strategic sports around. fantastic to watch once you have even a slight idea of what they're trying to do. it's a big dance of strategy and then the players have to follow through on their shots and if they don't, it impacts the strategy again.
> 
> i never really cared about curling when i was younger, but my wife's family all curl and now that i understand the game a bit, I enjoy watching it.


I never heard of curling until I came here to St.John's, NL, which has hundreds if not thousands of curlers ........ and the Brad Gushue team. :clap:


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

SINC said:


> Nor am I interested in being continually harassed for perceived imaginary things in your mind. That will be my last comment to you.


I believe he doth protest too much.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

mrjimmy said:


> I believe he doth protest too much.


"Give every man thy ear, but few thy voice;
Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment." 
Polonius, scene iii 

"This above all — to thine own self be true;
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man." 
Polonius, scene iii 

This is I,
Hamlet the Bassett Hound!


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## MLeh (Dec 23, 2005)

Such negativity ...

To answer the OP ... of course the Olympics haven't failed already. People who only see the negatives will see failure everywhere, because they fail at seeing the big picture and long term ramifications. 

Success is generally perceived more long term. Look back in 10 or 20 years, and then we'll know.

However, in the short term: those who expect to fail are seldom disappointed. I'm sure those who want the Olympics to fail will find no shortage of things to point out, while ignoring the achievements and positives.

(And, Sinc, really, I think you're being very disingenuous in your responses here. You BS your friends, and I'll BS mine, but let's not BS each other, okay?)


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## mrjimmy (Nov 8, 2003)

Dr.G. said:


> "Give every man thy ear, but few thy voice;
> Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment."
> Polonius, scene iii
> 
> ...


Nothing like the wisdaom of a Basset in a party hat!


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

mrjimmy said:


> Nothing like the wisdaom of a Basset in a party hat!


They are like the true Olympic athlete, "citius altius fortius" (wanting to go/be swifter, higher, stronger). Paix, mon ami.

Still, if an athlete does his/her best, that is all we may ask of this person, or of ourselves, be it at the Olympics or in the daily events of Life.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

MLeh said:


> (And, Sinc, really, I think you're being very disingenuous in your responses here. You BS your friends, and I'll BS mine, but let's not BS each other, okay?)


Perhaps you missed this response to the cartoon I posted:



Manatus said:


> I agree with Ernst, in my opinion it's a lot more the public's perception than the athletes themselves. For months now we've been hearing about owning the podium, how this is our time, about "Believe" and how Canada is an Olympic powerhouse... and let's face it, 95% of us never watch any of these events, except hockey and curling, outside of the Olympics. We couldn't name most of these athletes if we were paid to. Pretty much all the Average Joe knows comes from what the media tells us, and they tell us that Canada should "win" these games, so we start to expect and demand that. I think a lot of people desperately want to be proud and patriotic about things that they really know nothing about, which places a lot of demands on our athletes. In some ways it's a rude awakening when we actually start watching the coverage and find out that it isn't always the Canadians who are favourites or the best in the world.


That is exactly why I posted it, to see if others agreed with the cartoonist. I've asked questions all my life and those asked here are no different. Take them as you will, but they are far from disingenuous. Too many people are reading more into the question, including you.


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sadly, Donovan Bailey was never asked to run with a torch, nor to even attend the ceremonies.


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## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

MazterCBlazter said:


> Many were at the games in China and said the event was incredible, this one to them is an incredible joke. My European friends have been especially appalled at the homelessness and the poverty taking a back seat to the games.


I find it difficult to read the second sentence right after the first one. Did I read that wrong? Are your European friends upset that we didn't do more to hide homelessness and poverty than China? Surely they aren't naive enough to think that didn't exist in China?


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## jamesB (Jan 28, 2007)

Hell, I find it impossible to take seriously anything coming from someone who once posted a want add to purchase Human Bones.


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

Dangit, I thought we weren't allowed to talk about that! :lmao:


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## MannyP Design (Jun 8, 2000)

If it's any conciliation, some friends from south of the border really enjoyed Canada's ceremonies.


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

MannyP Design said:


> If it's any conciliation, some friends from south of the border really enjoyed Canada's ceremonies.


Yes indeedy, must'a been something watching those natives dance to Ashley McIsaacs.


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## titans88 (Oct 3, 2007)

hayesk said:


> I find it difficult to read the second sentence right after the first one. Did I read that wrong? Are your European friends upset that we didn't do more to hide homelessness and poverty than China? Surely they aren't naive enough to think that didn't exist in China?


Well said!

Furthermore, we shouldn't be "hiding" our issues of poverty or homelessness whatsoever.


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

MazterCBlazter said:


> It would have been appropriate for Arnold to have passed the torch to Ben Johnson, which is symbolic of BC Bud. That is very strange that Bailey was not invited to this boondoggle, which seems to be a multi-billion dollar Gong Show.


He actually met with the head of the VANOC, but this person did not get back to him when he said he would like to help out in any way to promote these games.


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## hayesk (Mar 5, 2000)

jef said:


> Someone actually watches curling? Really?


Is there something wrong with watching curling? You watch what you want to watch, and others will watch what they want to watch?


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

An interesting story, MCB. I think that saddest Olympic story of all is that of Jim Thorpe.


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## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

MazterCBlazter said:


> I didn't know of him, but I just scanned his story on wiki, that was depressing.


MCB, in my opinion Jim Thorpe was the greatest all-around athlete in the 20th/21st centuries. He basically could do it all.


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