# Refurbished Macs Not Available at Apple Online?



## steviewhy (Oct 21, 2010)

sudo rm -rf /


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Huh. First time I've ever seen that... at first I thought there were three items available (MBAir, MBP, iMac), but clicking through to their product page, you find "Out of stock".

Maybe we're visiting the site during a database refresh?


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## jlcinc (Dec 13, 2002)

I noticed this yesterday afternoon and still today even the american site. Strange.

John


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## G-Mo (Sep 26, 2007)

Must have hit the store during a refresh or update of some kind (maybe it was a bug?!). Everything appears normal now.


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## jlcinc (Dec 13, 2002)

The refurbished is still showing nothing in stock.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Very strange... hopefully just a glitch and nothing more ominous.


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## keebler27 (Jan 5, 2007)

must be a glitch or store update (i know...they usually put a notice up), but there's nothing in the refurb store at all. I'd check back later.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

I can see a whole bunch now and was able early this morning.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Joker Eh said:


> I can see a whole bunch now and was able early this morning.


Are you sure they are all greyed out for me and you can't link to any.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

Refurbished MacBook Pro 2.66GHz Intel Core i7 - Apple Store (Canada)

I can add any I want to my cart and check out.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

So how did you link to it?

This is what I am seeing...


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

Nope doesn't look that way for me. all is normal and clickable. The only ones that are greyed out is the MacBook, iPod Classic, iPad Wi-Fi (1st gen), and iPad 2 Wifi


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Joker Eh said:


> Nope doesn't look that way for me. all is normal and clickable. The only ones that are greyed out is the MacBook, iPod Classic, iPad Wi-Fi (1st gen), and iPad 2 Wifi


This makes no sense at all! How can two people going to the same website see different things that are so intrinsic to the site (I'm not talking simple display differences as in browser differences)? This is very bizarre.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

I have checked from my ipad and even my work windows machine , very stange indeed. I just got my girlfriend to test on my mac which she is using at this moment and she has no problem.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Joker Eh said:


> I have checked from my ipad and even my work windows machine , very stange indeed. I just got my girlfriend to test on my mac which she is using at this moment and she has no problem.


I'm on my Windows work machine and get nothing...


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## chuckster (Nov 30, 2003)

Mine were greyed out all day yesterday and so far today.


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

screature said:


> I'm on my Windows work machine and get nothing...


Maybe its a GTA thing because G-Mo and I have no issues. Could it be a routing issue? I don't think so but hey nothing is impossible.


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## broad (Jun 2, 2009)

maybe it was the DNS changer virus 

haha


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## Andrew Pratt (Feb 16, 2007)

No problem for me (on a PC at work)


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Joker Eh said:


> Maybe its a GTA thing because G-Mo and I have no issues. Could it be a routing issue? I don't think so but hey nothing is impossible.


Nope I'm in Ottawa.


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## chuckster (Nov 30, 2003)

I'm in Peterborough and I also checked Australia, USA and United Kingdom stores and they were all grey.


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## kfraser (Jan 12, 2009)

All greyed out for me too. I'm in Stratford, ON.


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## doglips (Feb 28, 2001)

Works fine for me.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

So back home in Quebec on a completely different ISP and still all greyed out... definitely something strange is going on....


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## steviewhy (Oct 21, 2010)

sudo rm -rf /


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Weird. At 1:40pm CST Wednesday, I'm getting the greyed-out column that Screature sees. 

Hm. Maybe Apple is running an instant credit check, and is actually _helping_ me by not allowing me to try and purchase their products? 

Thanks Apple! :clap:


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## steviewhy (Oct 21, 2010)

sudo rm -rf /


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

I am on Rogers and I have no issue.


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## ldphoto (Jul 9, 2009)

Currently, the page has stock when viewed from my iPad but not from my windows PC using chrome. Both on the same outgoing network connection...


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

steviewhy said:


> *I don't know how this is even possible but different DNS addresses produce different results and it only affects the refurbished part of the store. Theoretically this shouldn't be possible since it's the same domain.*
> 
> *DNS that doesn't work:*
> 
> ...


I know it's freakin' unreal....


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Joker Eh said:


> I am on Rogers and I have no issue.


I highly doubt that being with Rogers is the reason why you are not experiencing what many of the rest of us are...


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## Tech Elementz (Mar 15, 2011)

This is a real conundrum. I am on Rogers in the Toronto area and the Refurb Store is greyed out as well...


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## silentsim (Apr 15, 2006)

telus calgary not greyed out


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## jamesB (Jan 28, 2007)

1:08 PST and all's well here on Vancouver island.
I'm on Shaw and use DNS servers.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

I haven't reported this to Apple yet... has anyone else?


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

I'm grasping at straws here but is this the first real "Apple attack"?


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## johnnydee (Feb 10, 2004)

I can buy at the apple store but it shows nothing available at the refurb store?!?
So how could this be a DNS issue?


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## steviewhy (Oct 21, 2010)

sudo rm -rf /


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

steviewhy said:


> Exactly. Certain DNS server addresses show stock and others show none. it shouldn't be a DNS issue but change the addresses and see for yourself. Somethings definitely up. DNS poisoning, cross site scripting? Who knows.* But I'm not buying anything while this weirdness continues*.


Which makes me wonder again... is this the first real malicious Mac Attack....?

I know the real answer is probably more benign, but on the face of it, it sure seems exceptionally suspicious.... I have never seen this sort of situation on any website before... ever.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

I haven't noticed anything at all when I took a look at Apple's website as soon as this thread was started, but this is a huge concern for sure.


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## steviewhy (Oct 21, 2010)

sudo rm -rf /


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

*What the F**K!!*

So I asked the question earlier has anyone contacted Apple about this and got no response so I went ahead and did an online support chat with Apple... Here is what they said:









Kind of scary stuff...


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## steviewhy (Oct 21, 2010)

sudo rm -rf /


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## wytwolf (Oct 5, 2006)

There are no refurb iPads or iPods either. Weird.


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## G-Mo (Sep 26, 2007)

I've had no issues accessing it all day. Ordered 3, maybe 4, machines via the Canadian refurb store today. Personally looked maybe a dozen times, always been plenty of stuff there.

Could be a page caching issue...


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

G-Mo said:


> I've had no issues accessing it all day. Ordered 3, maybe 4, machines via the Canadian refurb store today. Personally looked maybe a dozen times, always been plenty of stuff there.
> *
> Could be a page caching issue*...


You're kidding right... you saw how Apple support replied to me didn't you?

Not likely. Sorry but this response doesn't address the issue at all...


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

I just checked from Montreal.
Same problem - no refurbs available...supposedly

Changed from the google DNS servers to open DNS servers - no difference.
Emptied cache - no difference

Refurb.me probably shows what is available but one can't order any via that route either.

Pretty amazing that this has been going on all day and still no fix by 9:20pm


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

screature said:


> You're kidding right... you saw how Apple support replied to me didn't you?


Can you make the image bigger that you posted?


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

krs said:


> Can you make the image bigger that you posted?


Just click on it krs to see it bigger...


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## G-Mo (Sep 26, 2007)

screature said:


> You're kidding right... you saw how Apple support replied to me didn't you?
> 
> Not likely. Sorry but this response doesn't address the issue at all...


Sorry, what Apple chat support doesn't know, you could just about fill the Grand Canyon. You got first line chat support, aka nod and smile. I wouldn't be surprised if most of them couldn't find the Apple site.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

I wanted to include the whole chat but here I will make the most important parts bigger...


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

G-Mo said:


> Sorry, what Apple chat support doesn't know, you could just about fill the Grand Canyon. You got first line chat support, aka nod and smile. I wouldn't be surprised if most of them couldn't find the Apple site.


Uhmm no they get the TPs Apple gives them. If they say they don't know what is going on it means Apple doesn't know what is going on or at least if they do they aren't telling us... but it certainly isn't a page caching issue... have you been following along today?! Your post really makes me wonder.... Do you think we are six pages in talking about a page caching issue..? I mean really!!!


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Back up and working for me... I wonder if we will ever know from Apple what went wrong.

BTW G-Mo I didn't clear my cache to make it come back online.... it just "magically" started working again...


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## G-Mo (Sep 26, 2007)

screature said:


> Uhmm no they get the TPs Apple gives them. If they say they don't know what is going on it means Apple doesn't know what is going on or at least if they do they aren't telling us... but it certainly isn't a page caching issue... have you been following along today?! Your post really makes me wonder.... Do you think we are six pages in talking about a page caching issue..? I mean really!!!


^
Speaking of don't know and Grand Canyon...


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

G-Mo said:


> ^
> Speaking of don't know and Grand Canyon...


Yeah cause you know because you came in on the discussion last minute with a smarta**, actually dumba** response thinking you had the answer to what many people who know as much about the internet as you and how it works experienced even though you didn't experience it yourself... maybe time to get over yourself.


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## G-Mo (Sep 26, 2007)

screature said:


> Back up and working for me... I wonder if we will ever know from Apple what went wrong.
> 
> BTW G-Mo I didn't clear my cache to make it come back online.... it just "magically" started working again...


I wasn't taking about individual page caching on your own machine, but at a higher level (ISP cache servers, DNS, etc...).

BTW, Grand Canyon is in Arizona if you want to see how much you have to learn...


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

screature said:


> Just click on it krs to see it bigger...


I already tried that - shows up in a separate window but exactly the same size.

Any words of wisdom from Apple?
Doesn't sound like it since the chat was rather short.

PS: You just blew it up, thanks.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

screature said:


> Back up and working for me... I wonder if we will ever know from Apple what went wrong.


Not up for me yet.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

G-Mo said:


> I wasn't taking about individual page caching on your own machine, but at a higher level (ISP cache servers, DNS, etc...).
> 
> BTW, Grand Canyon is in Arizona if you want to see how much you have to learn...


I saw it when I was seven. Probably when you were just an inkling in your daddy' s sex drive so stuff the condescension... I doubt you have ever even seen it just like you didn't see what was going on today so you really have no idea despite the fact that you seem to think you do....


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## [email protected] (Dec 26, 2010)

screature said:


> I saw it when I was seven. Probably when you were just an inkling in your daddy' s sex drive so stuff the condescension... I doubt you have ever even seen it just like you didn't see what was going on today so you really have no idea despite the fact that you seem to think you do....


LOL... Boy, you really come off as a total moron these last 2 pages!


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## ldphoto (Jul 9, 2009)

Even weirder now. No stock on two MacBook Pros at home, but works fine on an iPad with plenty of stock. All through the same internet connection.

Weird.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> LOL... Boy, you really come off as a total moron these last 2 pages!


How so? 

Because someone who has no idea what others have been experiencing offers up a solution that makes no sense and is called out on it for his lack of appreciation of the larger issue? 

Need I mention that you are the only one to suggest someone else is a moron? 

Yep you're right I guess, despite the fact that I was the only one to take the time and effort to contact Apple to find out what is going one and post the response that makes me a moron...

Ignorance is bliss to some I guess...


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

G-Mo upon reflection I owe you an apology. 

My posts to you were rather harsh in nature and for that I am sorry. I still don't believe what was going on today was a page caching problem due to the wide spread yet at the same time seemingly random nature of the issue.

You seemed to be rather dismissive of the fact that this an unusual problem that has never been experienced before on the Apple site and because you had no problems, the problem had a very simple explanation and that irked me because it didn't fit with the evidence.

But that doesn't excuse my harsh postings to you... I was in a bit of a "mood" when I made those posts and I shouldn't post when I am irritated and so once again I apologize for the tone of my posts... I should have been more polite.


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## [email protected] (Dec 26, 2010)

screature said:


> You seemed to be rather dismissive of the fact that this an unusual problem that has never been experienced before on the Apple site and because you had no problems, the problem had a very simple explanation and that irked me because it didn't fit with the evidence.


While the issue may very well never have been experienced before on the Apple site (has anyone checked every page, every minute of every day since the site has been up?), it's not unusual and G-Mo's suggestion does actually fit with the evidence.

BTW, he left the thread.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> While the issue may very well never have been experienced before on the Apple site (*has anyone checked every page, every minute of every day since the site has been up?), it's not unusual *and G-Mo's suggestion does actually fit with the evidence.
> 
> BTW, he left the thread.


This is a sub site to the Apple site and the problem was international not just in Canada so it is not merely a page caching issue and Apple admitted to me it was a problem they were experiencing before G-Mo posted... the reason G-Mo posted does not fit...

Just out of interest why do you feel the need to defend G-Mo... by the nature of his past posts of which I dare say I have seen most he is fully capable of looking after himself.

BTW he may well be back.


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## pm-r (May 17, 2009)

steviewhy said:


> It could be an attack I suppose, but you'd figure that the attack would focus on the entire store not just the refurbs. The mechanics of the whole thing is mind boggling.


Maybe the "attackers" if that's actually the real cause, are just practising?

Edit: BTW, no problem accessing the apple.ca refurb site all day here since the original post and nothing greyed out. Using shaw.ca and with some extra custom DNS addresses if that actually makes any difference.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

screature said:


> This is a sub site to the Apple site and the problem was international not just in Canada so it is not merely a page caching issue and Apple admitted to me it was a problem they were experiencing before G-Mo posted... the reason G-Mo posted does not fit...


The few international sites I looked at, Canada, Australia and the UK are all actually sub-directories of apple.com. So the problem wasn't as "international" as you think.

But why this was an issue for only some people and not others is a bit of a mystery.


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## [email protected] (Dec 26, 2010)

screature said:


> This is a sub site to the Apple site and the problem was international not just in Canada so it is not merely a page caching issue and Apple admitted to me it was a problem they were experiencing before G-Mo posted... the reason G-Mo posted does not fit...





krs said:


> The few international sites I looked at, Canada, Australia and the UK are all actually sub-directories of apple.com. So the problem wasn't as "international" as you think.


The refurb store (and most of the rest of the site for that matter) uses the EXACT same page for every country (e.g. storeRefurb.php). Those aren't actual sub-directories in the URL, it's URL rewriting and it's using the first parameter as a localization variable, so, depending on what local designator is passed (ca/au/uk/nz/us/nl/etc...) it decides what information to populate the page with.

Following on with that, if there was a caching issue somewhere along the line, it doesn't matter what variable you pass it, it's could feed back the same page for every request.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

krs said:


> The few international sites I looked at, Canada, Australia and the UK are all actually sub-directories of apple.com. So the problem wasn't as "international" as you think.
> 
> But why this was an issue for only some people and not others is a bit of a mystery.





[email protected] said:


> The refurb store (and most of the rest of the site for that matter) uses the EXACT same page for every country (e.g. storeRefurb.php). Those aren't actual sub-directories in the URL, it's URL rewriting and it's using the first parameter as a localization variable, so, depending on what local designator is passed (*ca/au/uk/nz/us/nl/etc..*.) it decides what information to populate the page with.
> 
> Following on with that, if there was a caching issue somewhere along the line, it doesn't matter what variable you pass it, it's could feed back the same page for every request.


Makes them sub directories, they start out as the same page yes but clearly there are also differences among them as well like pricing information stock availability etc.

The problem is the lack of consistency with the problem. It it were as you and G-Mo are suggesting then everyone should be seeing the same thing and experiencing the same lack of functionality. They weren't that is what made it so strange.


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## chuckster (Nov 30, 2003)

Still greyed out for me.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

chuckster said:


> Still greyed out for me.


Was OK for me this morning.
Takes a while to ripple trough....I assume you cleared the cache of your browser


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

krs said:


> Was OK for me this morning.
> Takes a while to ripple trough....I assume you cleared the cache of your browser


When it came back on line for me krs I hadn't cleared my cache from when it was all greyed out so at least in my experience clearing the local cache was not necessary.


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## [email protected] (Dec 26, 2010)

screature said:


> Makes them sub directories, they start out as the same page yes but clearly there are also differences among them as well like pricing information stock availability etc.
> 
> The problem is the lack of consistency with the problem. It it were as you and G-Mo are suggesting then everyone should be seeing the same thing and experiencing the same lack of functionality. They weren't that is what made it so strange.


They don't start out as the same page they are ALWAYS the same page, just written/output differently depending on what "view" (localization) you are visiting. It's not a sub directory, just a piece of text in a URL bar, same way the current page could be written "/showthread.php?p=1205187#post1205187" or "/showthread/1205187/post1205187/"... it's just text, letter and numbers, there are not actual physical separate directories.

Everybody doesn't see the same thing, because it would depend where in the routing process the caching is occurring, if you wanted to troubleshoot the theory out, you could start by having everyone dump their trace routes. I'm not saying it definitely was a cache issue, but, by all accounts it could be, it's a reasonable theory.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> They don't start out as the same page they are ALWAYS the same page, just written/output differently depending on what "view" (localization) you are visiting. It's not a sub directory, just a piece of text in a URL bar, same way the current page could be written "/showthread.php?p=1205187#post1205187" or "/showthread/1205187/post1205187/"... it's just text, letter and numbers, there are not actual physical separate directories.
> 
> Everybody doesn't see the same thing, because it would depend where in the routing process the caching is occurring, if you wanted to troubleshoot the theory out, you could start by having everyone dump their trace routes. I'm not saying it definitely was a cache issue, but, by all accounts it could be, it's a reasonable theory.


They clearly aren't the same pages in different countries because they contain different information so they aren't the same in that they end up being written differently.

Look at these pages and tell me they are the same:

Official Apple Store Canada - Buy the new iPad and MacBook Pro with Retina display, iPhone, iPod, and More - Apple Store (Canada)
Apple Store officiel - Achetez le nouveau MacBook*Pro avec écran Retina, le nouvel iPad, l'iPhone, l'iPod, l'Apple*TV et bien plus. - Apple Store (France)

Re: being different physical directories I understand what you are saying but just curious how do you know how Apple structures their websites?

I managed a website for an international high tech company several years ago and the different international sub sites were definitely sub-directories of the main site.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

screature said:


> When it came back on line for me krs I hadn't cleared my cache from when it was all greyed out so at least in my experience clearing the local cache was not necessary.


Depends on your browser - I just mentioned that to make sure what you see cannot be the cached files.
On most browsers you can also hold down the shift key to force the browser to load from the web, not the cache.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

Oh boy ... that didn't show up as I expected.
Forget it, I'm done on this topic.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

krs said:


> Depends on your browser - I just mentioned that to make sure what you see cannot be the cached files.
> On most browsers you can also hold down the shift key to force the browser to load from the web, not the cache.


Ok just to clarify then, in Firefox it wasn't necessary to clear the cache for the refurb section to come back online.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

screature said:


> Ok just to clarify then, in Firefox it wasn't necessary to clear the cache for the refurb section to come back online.


I was going to be done but I need to comment about Firefox and the cache.

Screature - just because you didn't have to clear the cache to get the Apple site to update properly doesn't mean any one else using Firefox has the same situation.

The default cache size on Firefox is 50 MB and has been that for the last 8 years.
People use the web more, the sites are more sophisticated and one tends to download much more than 8 years ago, so that 50 MB default cache size which was fine 8 years ago should really be increased especially since RAM/storage is pretty cheap now.

Where I'm going with this is that a 50MB cache gets overwritten fairly quickly - how quickly depends on how much browsing you do.
So another person, also using FF, but doing very little browsing, could still well have the old Apple page in the FF cache and it will get pulled up first if it still exists.
In your case it was obviously already overwritten.

To load directly from the net and bypass the cache, you can follow the instructions for your browser here:
Wikipedia:Bypass your cache - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Joker Eh (Jan 22, 2008)

Apple's Online Refurb Store Outage Reaches Third Day - Mac Rumors

If you read the article it sounds it happens to everybody, but if you read the comments not everyone in any one country is seeing the same thing like here.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

krs said:


> I was going to be done but I need to comment about Firefox and the cache.
> 
> Screature - just because you didn't have to clear the cache to get the Apple site to update properly doesn't mean any one else using Firefox has the same situation.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info krs.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Joker Eh said:


> Apple's Online Refurb Store Outage Reaches Third Day - Mac Rumors


Thanks for the link Joker Eh.... It will be interesting to see if they ever tell us what went wrong and why...


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## chuckster (Nov 30, 2003)

It must be more than just cache-cleaning as the page loads text reading: "Sorry there are no products available, please check back later. " I'm guessing as this is not my area of expertise, but this seems more of a glitch.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

There were a lot of dealer complaints about Apple being chintzy on EOL discounts and then dumping just discoed machines into the refurb channel.

Maybe some changes looming.


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## wytwolf (Oct 5, 2006)

Refurbs seem to be back online


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## DR Hannon (Jan 21, 2007)

Down again.


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## javaqueen (Feb 5, 2012)

I am able to go to apple.ca and get to the refurbished mac computers this is the link that I am using

Refurbished Mac Computers - Refurbished Notebooks & Desktop Computers - Apple Store (Canada)


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## Mckitrick (Dec 25, 2005)

Looks like all the Mac Mini's are gone.. There were quite a few up there yesterday I believe...


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## johnnydee (Feb 10, 2004)

Yea I'm back at "not available"!!!!


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## Oakbridge (Mar 8, 2005)

I'd be very interested to know how many posters who have been fretting so much about the refurbished site were actually about to make purchases during the problems. 

Methinks there are too many rubberneckers on the information superhighway…


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## jlcinc (Dec 13, 2002)

So after reading the comments on the Mac Rummer's site I dumped my apple store cookies and signed into my account and magic the refurbs are back.

John


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## johnnydee (Feb 10, 2004)

Oakbridge said:


> I'd be very interested to know how many posters who have been fretting so much about the refurbished site were actually about to make purchases during the problems.
> 
> Methinks there are too many rubberneckers on the information superhighway…


That must be it, Apples now knows who is window shopping!

Who knows what next eek!!


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

Oakbridge said:


> I'd be very interested to know how many posters who have been fretting so much about the refurbished site were actually about to make purchases during the problems.
> 
> Methinks there are too many rubberneckers on the information superhighway…
> 
> ...


Not exactly the point... problems like this can lead to a lack in confidence about the system Apple has in place... steviewhy seemed to indicate as much for him...



steviewhy said:


> Exactly. Certain DNS server addresses show stock and others show none. it shouldn't be a DNS issue but change the addresses and see for yourself. Somethings definitely up. DNS poisoning, cross site scripting? Who knows. *But I'm not buying anything while this weirdness continues*.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Uh oh, not only am I getting the refurb store problem, it seems that brand new products are affected as well.


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## screature (May 14, 2007)

No issues here...


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

Refurb.me shows absolutely no Macs in stock at all.
Something happened about an hour ago, that's when all the existing ones that were for sale disappeared.


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## andreww (Nov 20, 2002)

All works fine here.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

Everything is back now for me as well.


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## dona83 (Jun 26, 2005)

Pfft now it's fine. Lol.


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