# I got screwed on ebay!!I



## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

Hello all. I've calmed down a bit and I figure I would share my horrible experience with this phone and ebay. Well my phone was supposed to be delivered last friday but it didn't arrive until today. Big problem though - instead of an iphone in the package they placed a dirty dish towel in the box. A DIRTY DISH RAG!!! Man, was I fuming. Luckily I paid by paypal and credit card. The UPS driver stuck around while I opened the package so he witnessed the entire thing (he was friendly enough to give me all his info). I have to go through the whole procedure of sending mastercard a letter + all transactions, etc... - huge pain in the ASS!! I do have quite a bit of ebay experience (bought and sold 72 items) and I think I have an eye for spotting a scam but none of the signs were there other than the $570 price I paid for the phone (which isn't insanely cheap). The seller even had a 100% feedback based on 32 transactions.

I'm going to chicago this friday and I plan on buying one straight from the apple store. As much as I love ebay sometimes these types of people ruin the experience.

Any pointers from anyone else who's been in a situation like this with ebay would be appreciated.

Kyle


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## Duramax (Jul 21, 2007)

Oh damn! Man I hope you get your money back. What was the sellers ID so the rest of the community is aware of him?


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## dannyrabbittang (Nov 2, 2006)

You said the seller had 100% feedback for 32 transactions, did you check those transactions. Often times I find that deals like this, the 32 transactions are nothing more than buying/selling things that are 99 cents.


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## Flipstar (Nov 7, 2004)

Ouch.. first thing you should do is file an eBay dispute. That gets the ball rolling. It will take over 30 days for completion that way though.

Is it possible to post the listing?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Or better yet, well, . . . . . most of you know by now.


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

Below is the listing. Right now they have quite a few items for sale - mostly junk though. Pretty much all junk but most things sell for around $10 -$150. The other weird thing is they stated they had one other iphone - I wonder if the other guy got his phone??

Brand New Apple iPhone 8 GB - (item 110150049719 end time Jul-16-07 13:10:42 PDT)

I have a question. If I leave him a negative feedback can he not do the same for me??


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## Duramax (Jul 21, 2007)

Yes he can but clearly mark the details of the transaction,


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

This whole situation is killing me. It's not even about the money because I'm pretty sure I will get that back. It's that people like this exist. It really gets to me. Man, how I wish I could meet this person eye to eye. Would that ever be fun!!


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## Duramax (Jul 21, 2007)

In his contact info does he have a phone #?


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## Blood_Lust (Sep 7, 2003)

I'd say leave a negative feedback in all caps to warn other people.


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## JAGflyer (Jan 10, 2005)

Is it possible that the package was intercepted somewhere along the line and the phone was removed?


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

I have an address and phone number. I've called the # about 3 times - no answer.
I do get an answering machine with something sounding like a baby/child saying please leave a message. I will continue to call every so often to see if I can get someone. Not sure what that will do though. They will either hang-up or deny the situation. I think I will get more frustrated that anything positive coming from contacting them.


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## Duramax (Jul 21, 2007)

Was the phone still sealed in plastic?


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

JAGflyer said:


> Is it possible that the package was intercepted somewhere along the line and the phone was removed?


Possible but doubtful. I'm sure that is what they will claim. The box was taped closed and if someone would have opened this package and retaped it I would have been able to tell.


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

Duramax said:


> Was the phone still sealed in plastic?


Not sure if I understand. The phone never arrived nor did the box. The brown box that was supposed to have an iphone it it had a dish rag. No phone- no iphone box.


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## Duramax (Jul 21, 2007)

Oh damn! The least he coulda done was put a can of Vaseline in there too. Seriously though, like someone said earlier, leave negative feedback in all caps so that it stands out. Good luck!


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

Negative feedback left. It just sucks that they can leave me negative feedback although I've done nothing wrong!


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## Flipstar (Nov 7, 2004)

There's two things that should have raised flags for you.

1. The phone is Buy It Now for $550 when retail is $600.
2. The picture associated with the auction just has a receipt. eBay has clearly stated over and over again before the iPhone went on sale that every auction has to have the seller's username printed on a piece of paper and a picture taken with the item.

All I can say is file a dispute, and do not give negative feedback just yet. You can issue a chargeback, but I'd go the proper way because it can take just as long.


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

I undestand that retail is $600 but based on the readily available stock for this phone it is not difficult to get it for $550 so this was not a red flag. The pic with a username on it does help but being a graphic designer myself, to photoshop this would be quite easy.

Truthfully I felt good about this transaction - shows what I know.


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## Flipstar (Nov 7, 2004)

kydee6039 said:


> I undestand that retail is $600 but based on the readily available stock for this phone it is not difficult to get it for $550 so this was not a red flag. The pic with a username on it does help but being a graphic designer myself, to photoshop this would be quite easy.
> 
> Truthfully I felt good about this transaction - shows what I know.


I don't mean to rag on you, but where can you buy an iPhone for $550? Or $550 minus the eBay listing and final value fee? And sure you can photoshop the username thing.... but the rules are the rules.

It doesn't show what you know... you just have to wear a tinfoil hat whenever you shop on eBay like some of us.  

Well good luck with getting your $$$ back...


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## edmonton (Mar 24, 2006)

I stopped using ebay all together after being scammed a couple of times. Ebay failed to recover my funds and asked me to pay them back when I informed my credit card company and my bank about the scam and asked them to withdraw the transaction.

Lesson learnt: 

1) If it's too good to be true, then it's too good to be true. 
2) Don't buy anything from ebay if you can't accept the fact that you might never get the item and lose your money.


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## Blood_Lust (Sep 7, 2003)

take photos of the box, the receipt, screen capture of the item and when you bought it (if possible). If this guy leaves a negative feedback to you, complain to ebay and show them the photos you saved.

I also noticed the scammer's for sale list. It's all crap. Alarm clock, toilet seat, etc.


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

I don't really know how he can explain giving me negative feedback. It's clear that I payed - it even says this at the top of the listing. We will have to wait and see what happens.


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

Simple.... he can say whatever he wants. He can say you are a liar and a scum and you sent him death threats. You go to eBay to have his lies removed. They do so but ALSO remove your negative feeback off of him. So he's clean.

Thats how these scammers can maintain good feedback ratings.


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## mac_geek (May 14, 2005)

You must have had a suspicion in the in the back of your mind regarding this transaction if you asked the UPS driver to stick around to witness the unboxing... I've never heard of this as a practice, but maybe I'm showing my naivete?


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## T-hill (May 18, 2005)

Does eBay still allow you to respond to any negative feedback you receive? Like if the guy makes something up and gives you negative feedback, can't you just put underneath "He listed an iPhone, I won and paid in full immediately, he sent me a dishrag, I left him negative feedback."?


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

kydee6039;568239............ [B said:


> It's that people like this exist[/B]. It really gets to me.................


Oh please! Where have you been? There is a story about "people like this" doing something like this at least once a week on this board alone..... Across the net it is constant... Seems to me, collating all the info I've seen, that eBay is the natural habitat of "people like this".


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## guytoronto (Jun 25, 2005)

eBay is a dangerous place. No face-to-face. A whole lot of trust. These scams happen all the time. The pros set up multiple accounts, run them for a few months with low value items that they sell back and forth to their other accounts, then sucker someone in with something high-value.

It's kinda like a shell game. You never really know what's under the shell.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

Good news: 

I've got her contact info for you  

barrios, elizabeth [email protected]
1821 sw 133 ter
miramar, FL 33027
US
+1.3054914645 Fax: +1.9544438673

Kydee, contact me for more. I can find anyone, and specialize in it. 

edit: 

Also interesing this ad in the Miami Herald asking for $11k to spring her kid's daddy:

http://buyit.miami.com/findit/merchandise/miscellaneous/O88f32c6.htm

Note that the phone number in the ad corresponds with the admin contact phone number on her domain name for her store.

Notice also that she makes another plea for (paypal) money on her website under the heading "Lady Charity"

http://yuyusallstuff.com/page7.html

Main page:

http://yuyusallstuff.com/

I also found some more ads in the Miami Herald under the lady charity handle asking for money. Unfortunately, they're cached and can't be fully retrieved at the moment.

Wait, here's another:

http://www.adoos.us/post/1266991/lady_charity_needs_your_help

Another site of hers:

http://yuyusallstuff.spruz.com/main.asp?cmd=view&nid=102973

(note another email: [email protected] )

I suspect that when you start calling her and emailing her and posting comments to her blogs, it will start to sink in that you mean business. I have a feeling you'll be getting your money back very soon. 

You'll notice her affiliate id for roboform is "lizge". 
http://yuyusallstuff.com/page8.html (the blue text with "lizge" at the end)

In my experience, if you tell her that you are going to contact every single company that she's affiliated with--including every person on ebay she's done a transaction with--you will get her full attention. It's worked for me very well, thank you, with scammers. 

Now at this point there may be a slim possibility that the phone was removed in transit, so you just call her up and see what she says. But let her know you've got lots of info on her.


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## Elric (Jul 30, 2005)

LOL I sent her this:

A dirty dish towel!? Man, I suggest you fix this before it gets blown wide open. Refund the man. I'm sure he'll even return your towel. Be smart before Karma kicks in.


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

Wow - Thank You.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

kydee6039 said:


> Wow - Thank You.


You're more than welcome. LMK if there's anything else I can do. I HATE scammery!


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## DataGridDotRedraw (Jul 10, 2007)

The guy basically got you to buy him an iPhone... try to make it useless. The device info should be on the box. Call AT&T and tell them your phone was stolen before you could activate it, maybe they'll cancel it. Maybe not, but it'd be worth the phone call. 

I'm sure it's no big deal that you're in Canada either. I travel to the US almost weekly and have a US cell phone (and no US address) and I know a couple other Canadians who do the same.


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## DataGridDotRedraw (Jul 10, 2007)

Elric said:


> LOL I sent her this:
> 
> A dirty dish towel!? Man, I suggest you fix this before it gets blown wide open. Refund the man. I'm sure he'll even return your towel. Be smart before Karma kicks in.


Should we all email her and tell her the whole world is going to know what a bad person she is if she doesn't pay back the money?


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

That would be awesome - lol.

Her main email is [email protected]


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## JAGflyer (Jan 10, 2005)

Time to sign her up to every viagara pharmacy, porn service, etc we can find


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## CanadaRAM (Jul 24, 2005)

People: 

Don't compound the problem by harassing, uttering threats, etc.

The OP is going through the process to get refunded... a bunch of us jumping in may not help, and may open the OP up to counter-complaint from the scammer.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

.


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

I have left feedback already. I couldn't hold off. The chargeback is going fine.
I faxed everything into mastercard this morning and they should get back to me within the week. Hopefully they will refund the entire amount.

Question: All I've done with ebay is left negative feedback - is there something else I should do??


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## jackyk (Jun 22, 2005)

agh... that really stinks.

Take note of all the advice people are giving here. It's all good.

And I also second everyone NOT sending messages to this person. If there is even a hint of harassment, the tables could turn quickly.

Also, careful that you don't let this person know that their personal information was posted. Ebay is against this as well and the tables could turn again. I would suggest taking it off the site and save it on your comp. Ebay could do a google or something and find it here.

I think you're in a good position to get your money back. So don't let your emotions get in to it. Also, when you receive your funds back from paypal.... you may get less back because of "exchange rate" fluctuation.

This happened to me in a recent refund I received... but I disputed it and got the full amount back. My reason was because the person refunded ME and I did not initiate the refund.


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## jackyk (Jun 22, 2005)

kydee6039 said:


> Question: All I've done with ebay is left negative feedback - is there something else I should do??


did you not file a dispute with Ebay? You really should because they should know whats happening too. As well, they will most likely contact the buyer and tell them that this happened and their account may get suspended. Which is what we want


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## bishopandarlo (Mar 22, 2006)

mac_geek said:


> You must have had a suspicion in the in the back of your mind regarding this transaction if you asked the UPS driver to stick around to witness the unboxing... I've never heard of this as a practice, but maybe I'm showing my naivete?



I'm wondering the exact same thing.


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

It looks like I need to wait 10 days from the time the auction closed to open a dispute.


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## jackyk (Jun 22, 2005)

yeah because they want you to contact them first, etc...

Make sure you save all emails between the 2 of you. And keep the emails in your inbox because ebay may ask for the message headers.


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

bishopandarlo said:


> I'm wondering the exact same thing.


The seller was great at responding to all emails before I payed her but once I payed they pretty much disappeared. I had an idea that something was fishy but I wasn't 100% sure. Once the package arrived I was so excited to get it I pretty much opened it right away in front of the UPS guy. Once I saw what was happening I asked the UPS guy for all his info - in case I needed a witness.


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## kevs~just kevs (Mar 21, 2005)

bishopandarlo said:


> I'm wondering the exact same thing.


maybe the driver just wanted to get a look at an iPhone...


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

.


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

The package was sealed and I did inspect it. It was not opened before and repackaged - that I'm pretty sure of. I did already open a claim with paypal and the seller has not responded. I will open a dispute with ebay once the 10 day period comes about.


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## jackyk (Jun 22, 2005)

who cares if the UPS guy saw him opening the package or not! The man received a dish rag

definitely open the dispute when you can and tell them that you've already issued a charge back with your credit card company because if you don't, HowEver is probably right.

But now I'm a little concerned about how you jumped the gun a bit and did this without contacting ebay first.

Should he stop the chargeback with MasterCard until ebay is notified? You don't want to get charged like HowEver said.


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## rgray (Feb 15, 2005)

"_duh, ociffer, uh like you know, I was standin' on the tracks and uh, yuh know I heard all this noise like a really loud horn an' I looked an I seen this train comin' right at me.. so I just, uh like stood there, an' uh the train hit me!_".......  

eBay couldn't be better designed as a scam artists haven if they tried!!  

Googe "eBay" and see stories every single day about some rip off or other going down. You might very well be fully justified in being outraged, but please, please, *please, don't even pretend to be surprised!!!* 

Nobody with half a brain could be surprised by an eBay scam!  

eBay is like gambling and the stock market. 

The number one rule applies. "*Never venture more than you can afford to lose,*" Page one, item one, *bold*, underlined, and in _italics_ on the investor's and on the gambler's code book.


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

This seller has been completely unresponsive for about 4-5 days now and they know exactly what they have done. I'm not looking for this to drag on. I've notified all parties (mastercard, paypal and ebay soon). I'm looking to get my money back as soon as I can and put this behind me.


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

rgray said:


> "_duh, ociffer, uh like you know, I was standin' on the tracks and uh, yuh know I heard all this noise like a really loud horn an' I looked an I seen this train comin' right at me.. so I just, uh like stood there, an' uh the train hit me!_".......
> 
> eBay couldn't be better designed as a scam artists haven if they tried!!
> 
> ...


What is your point?? Of course purchasing items on ebay is a risk, all I'm doing now is going through the appropriate steps to get my money back. I've bought and sold over 100 items on ebay and I've never had a case like this so to say I was a bit surprised is the truth. Of course scamming happens on ebay, but so what, does that make it right?? I'm not really sure where your going with your response??


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## a7mc (Dec 30, 2002)

> Of course scamming happens on ebay, but so what, does that make it right?? I'm not really sure where your going with your response??


I gotta agree with Kydee here. It's kind of unjustified to point fingers and say "don't be surprised" and "you should have expected it". Of course it happens. People also get scammed using credit cards at real live stores. Did you stop using CC entirely? People get mugged on the street. Did you stop walking outside? People die in car crashes. Did you stop driving? 

A7


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

.


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## bishopandarlo (Mar 22, 2006)

bishopandarlo said:


> I'm wondering the exact same thing.





kydee6039 said:


> The seller was great at responding to all emails before I payed her but once I payed they pretty much disappeared. I had an idea that something was fishy but I wasn't 100% sure. Once the package arrived I was so excited to get it I pretty much opened it right away in front of the UPS guy. Once I saw what was happening I asked the UPS guy for all his info - in case I needed a witness.



Thanks for the response. Hope it all works out for you.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

jackyk said:


> who cares if the UPS guy saw him opening the package or not! The man received a dish rag


I think that's extremely important and one of the key things done right in this situation.
The UPS guy is an independant witness - without that the seller can just claim the buyer is actually the scammer by claiming he received a dish rag when in fact he did receive the iphone.
How would kydee6039 be able to disprove that without the UPS guy?

Two things in my opinion -

1. I think you should have waited with the negative feedback unless you get a better picture what the seller will claim. You have 90 days to leave it, so there is really no rush. But I can understand how you feel.

2. The other thing I'm a bit surprised about is that nobody has suggested contacting the police. People like that need to be put out of the scamming business. They may well give you your money back when the heat is really on, but to them that's just the cost of doing business.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

Only on the Internet does someone who was clearly scammed get attacked.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

imachungry said:


> Only on the Internet does someone who was clearly scammed get attacked.


Would you care to elaborate? 

I don't see anyone being attacked anywhere in this thread.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

.


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

I think it was actually refering to RGRAY's comment about not being suprised this sort of thing happened. You know what, it's cool. Everyone has an opinion and this is a forum so people are able to express what they feel. Lets not turn this into a pissing match.

I just want my money back and an IPHONE god dammit!!


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

.


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## Maxx Power (Sep 21, 2005)

*Just do a chargeback if you used your credit card*

Do that....

You'll get your money back. You might have to produce proof when your credit card company asks you to send a picture, or the entire thing to them for validation.

I didn't read all the 7 pages of posts, so if you already done this, then forget what I said. Contacting Paypal is as useless as Brahmin sh!t. I remember a few years ago reading their policy after being scammed myself, where they state that transactions of the type Canadian buyer and US seller is not protected for the buyer (what a bunch of pro-US @sses).


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## Maxx Power (Sep 21, 2005)

PS. "I got screwed on eBay" - Ebay Sex, mmmmm.


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

I've sent all the appropriate correspondence, letters, etc... to mastercard and they said they will get back to me within 5 days. Hopefully this all works out.

I think paypal covers up to $200 if the seller does not explain himself. So far the seller is nowhere to be found.


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

Strange twist for anyone following this from the beginning. The seller as of this morning had about 10-20 items on ebay that they were selling. All junk. Today someone just left them a neutral feedback saying the seller had horrible communication and slow shipping but the product did indeed arrive. The product
was a PS3. The person who left the feedback has zero transactions on ebay. I've emailed them to see if they can help me out. Maybe the seller is using a different username and leaving himelf feedback to cover up things.

Not really sure.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

.


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

Lets just say that I sent a 24 page fax to mastercard this morning. Everything and I mean everything is there plain and simple.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

this is a really interesting thread, for me at least and for many other ebayers I bet.

Credit card charge back used to be pretty simple especially when you dealt with a merchant directly.
The very odd time, I used it, I basically sent a signed statement to the CC company that I did not receive the item I was charged for; the CC company went back to the merchant requesting proof that the merchandize was in fact delivered and if he couldn't provide that, your money was credited.
Years ago in fact, you received your credit immediately with a letter from the CC company that the money would be charged on your CC account again should it turn out the merchant could prove that the merchandize was delivered.
They basically gave the purchaser the benefit of the doubt.

But things have changed. For one, last time I was overcharged on a CC card and wanted to do a charge back, I was told that they don't do this if you have bought from this merchant before - they want you to sort it out with the merchant directly.
Now they may even be more sticky because there is so much fraud in the other direction. People claim they never received the merchandize and want to do a charge back to basically get something for free.
If you read the "Sellers" discussion forum on ebay, you can read tons of posts about this to the point where some sellers don't even want to take CC funded paypal payments any more.

Where this gets a bit more intriguing is that the CC payment didn't go to the seller, it went to Paypal. So the CC company would do a charge back to paypal. Now paypal is out $550 or whatever and I'm sure they are going to squawk.

Anyway - it's a situation I could well find myself in at some point in time, so I'm really interested how this all plays out.

*Please Note:* I'm not suggesting anything about this particular transaction and situation at all, so don't read anything like that into this. What I posted are simply general facts that I have come across.


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

My credit card company needed 3 things from me:

1) A letter explaining in detail the situation
2) All email correspondence and
3) A letter from a 3rd party such as apple, future shop, etc... any store who sells cell phones indicating the item that I received is in fact not an IPHONE.

Now look at #3. I had to go to the apple store last night to speak with a manager asking him to write a letter on corporate letterhead stating the dishrag I was holding was in fact not an IPHONE.

Can you imagine the look on his face?? To make a long story short the guy did exactly what I asked of him.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

kydee6039 said:


> I had to go to the apple store last night to speak with a manager asking him to write a letter on corporate letterhead stating the dishrag I was holding was in fact not an IPHONE.
> 
> Can you imagine the look on his face?? To make a long story short the guy did exactly what I asked of him.


Glad there is some humour in all of this.


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## T-hill (May 18, 2005)

kydee6039 said:


> My credit card company needed 3 things from me:
> 
> 1) A letter explaining in detail the situation
> 2) All email correspondence and
> ...


At least you went to a manager! I'm just trying to picture it now:

kydee: *holds up dishrag* Is this an iPhone?
"Genius": Looks like one to me.


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

lol....

See my original post in another thread regarding this transaction.

Sorry, but 32 feedback?? Looks like you need some more 'experience' with online transactions. I know I'm being an ass, but seriously.. what did you expect?? At $570 it seemed suspicious to me from the get go.. but knowing now the person only had 32 feedback, I never would've done it, period.

But having said those cruel, cruel words. I do hope you get it all straightened out and get refunded by the CC company. At least you have that protection, instead of paying directly from your bank account... that would really suck.


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## Maxx Power (Sep 21, 2005)

It is possible that the account for the eBay seller was *high-jacked* by a rogue operative somewhere. This happens all the time on eBay, what with the fake "verify your account details" emails being sent. 

If that is the case, nothing changes on your end anyway. 

Oh, and if you use Paypal for anything, make sure to send funds only directly from y our credit card, so you can do charge backs to protect yourself (why else would you use a credit card ?) Because Paypal will NOT protect buyers outside the U.S. Besides, if you do a search on Paypal's policies on transactions and previous incidences, you'll see that it left a bad taste in everyone's mouth from some time back. 

For example, it used to be the case that if you do a charge back from a seller in the U.S. using Paypal (and of course, a credit card). Paypal automatically defaults to defending the U.S. Seller in this case, and will fight your chargeback. The other way around doesn't work, if you are the seller (from Canada) and received a charge back, Paypal will automatically defend the U.S. buyer. They shouldn't pose as an International company with such uni-lateral rules in my opinion. There is just no benefit to using Paypal if you are Canadian.


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

yup, highjacked account was my other thought.. happens especially with the lower feedback count ones...


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

kloan said:


> lol....
> 
> Sorry, but 32 feedback?? Looks like you need some more 'experience' with online transactions. I know I'm being an ass, but seriously.. what did you expect?? At $570 it seemed suspicious to me from the get go.. but knowing now the person only had 32 feedback, I never would've done it, period.


Hindsight is 20/20 isn't it?

I honestly don't see any real red flags with this listing.
As to only 32 feedbacks, everyone has to start somewhere. I have bid on auctions with no feedback - this was a brand new ebayer - and everything went smoothly; mind you it wasn't a $550.- item.

I started on ebay in April 1999, have over 600 auctions under my belt, and I would probably have bought this iphone as well if I was interested.


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

Thank you. Here is a seller that not only had 32 items sold and a near perfect feedback record - but they answered every question I asked before I payed them. 
I asked for personal info, address, phone number, etc.. Usually scammers don't want to be bothered with people as paranoid as I was. 

Regardless, the damage has been done.

Quick update, after all the threats of going to the police, paypal freezing there account, etc... the seller has finally started to respond to some of my emails. They basically said that I took the phone and that I'm trying to screw them. Big surprise. We went back and forth a bit more and finally I showed them some of the info that imachungry found for me this morning. That is when they started to change there tune. They say they will refund my money and take this up with UPS. No refund as of yet and the seller is saying that paypal cannot issue a refund until I speak to paypal about dropping the claim. Not sure if this is true but bascially I told the seller if I don't receive the refund within 12 hours I will go forward with everything I said I would.

I will call paypal in the morning to find out if indeed I need to do something to accept the refund.

I'll let you guys know what happens tomorrow morning. Thanks for all the help from everyone.

On a good note, I just picked up a new G5 and 23" apple lcd monitor tonight.
I had to make myself feel better in someway!!


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

.


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

Well I will find out tomorrow morning if they are telling the truth. If they aren't, that is the end of playing along with there games. 

I'll let you guys know.


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

I wouldn't drop this even after they refund the money.

They still committed a serious crime and got caught.

Within the US, it's relatively easy to pursue 'mail fraud'; the US post office takes that extremely seriously and does most of the legwork and prosecution - I have no idea how that is handled cross border.

PS: As they say, "Google is your friend"
US post office inspectors do get involved in any mail fraud where the US postal service was used in any way, so your situation certainly qualifies.
Fraud - Prevention DVDs


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## Crewser (Jun 12, 2007)

Maxx Power said:


> Oh, and if you use Paypal for anything, make sure to send funds only directly from y our credit card, so you can do charge backs to protect yourself (why else would you use a credit card ?) Because Paypal will NOT protect buyers outside the U.S.


I don't want to hijack this thread. I feel badly for the OP and do hope it is resolved soon for them. 

After you setup automatic withdrawl from your bank account, is there anyway to reverse this to go back to CC payments? I have been fortunate with the 250 or more purchases I have made since 1999 on eBay. My only complaint is users that won't leave a feedback until after I leave one, or those that do not leave feedbacks.

Steve


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Not my experience. I've won a PayPal dispute against a US seller, with little trouble. There is no "US wins by default." The situation described may reflect 5 years' past, not current reality.



Maxx Power said:


> Oh, and if you use Paypal for anything, make sure to send funds only directly from y our credit card, so you can do charge backs to protect yourself (why else would you use a credit card ?) Because Paypal will NOT protect buyers outside the U.S. Besides, if you do a search on Paypal's policies on transactions and previous incidences, you'll see that it left a bad taste in everyone's mouth from some time back.
> 
> For example, it used to be the case that if you do a charge back from a seller in the U.S. using Paypal (and of course, a credit card). Paypal automatically defaults to defending the U.S. Seller in this case, and will fight your chargeback. The other way around doesn't work, if you are the seller (from Canada) and received a charge back, Paypal will automatically defend the U.S. buyer. They shouldn't pose as an International company with such uni-lateral rules in my opinion. There is just no benefit to using Paypal if you are Canadian.


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

UPDATE

Things are looking good. I called paypal this morning and the seller has told paypal to start the refund process. It's not as simple as the seller just sending me the money back based on a new transaction. Paypal now having permission from the seller reviews the refund and then they take the money from the seller and give it to me. At this point it's still not 100%. If the seller does not have the funds in his/her paypal account then the money will come out of there bank account which will take 3-4 days to process. If they don't have the funds in there bank account then paypal will give me $200 that was considered insurance on this deal and they will go after the seller and freeze there account.

It's looking good but until I see the money in my account - you never know.

Thanks to everyone. I'll keep you posted.


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

The good news is that Paypal's TOS means that they will effectively make it impossible for the scammer to use their bank account without the money owed coming out first.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

If the seller simply sent you the refund, you would close the dispute and it would be over (except that you should still pursue legal avenues to either ensure this doesn't keep happening or establish a pattern if it does, to make things easier for law officials where he's located).

Likely the seller knows that he could just send a refund, keep a record of it, and you would stop the dispute and chargeback processes.




kydee6039 said:


> UPDATE
> 
> Things are looking good. I called paypal this morning and the seller has told paypal to start the refund process. It's not as simple as the seller just sending me the money back based on a new transaction. Paypal now having permission from the seller reviews the refund and then they take the money from the seller and give it to me. At this point it's still not 100%. If the seller does not have the funds in his/her paypal account then the money will come out of there bank account which will take 3-4 days to process. If they don't have the funds in there bank account then paypal will give me $200 that was considered insurance on this deal and they will go after the seller and freeze there account.
> 
> ...


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## gmug (Feb 13, 2007)

*Not an ebay.com member so's what's the contact details ?*



kydee6039 said:


> I have an address and phone number. I've called the # about 3 times - no answer.


Using Skype to Call them might be fun...


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## gmug (Feb 13, 2007)

*other ways of getting the Word Out to Search Engine's etc Topix*



HowEver said:


> If the seller simply sent you the refund, you would close the dispute and it would be over (except that you should still pursue legal avenues to either ensure this doesn't keep happening or establish a pattern if it does, to make things easier for law officials where he's located).
> 
> Likely the seller knows that he could just send a refund, keep a record of it, and you would stop the dispute and chargeback processes.


Got screwed on ebay, instead of an iphone in the package they placed a dirty dish towel in the box. - Topix


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

Yet another barely comprehensible gmug post. Apologies if English is not your first language, but... is English your first language?


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## gmug (Feb 13, 2007)

*Crime on the Streets maybe down as Cyber Crime Grows, ebay story*

Crime on the Streets maybe down as Cyber Crime Grows, ebay story - Topix


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

Not sure why you would post this to another site?? It looks like it's getting resolved!


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## krs (Mar 18, 2005)

So has the seller essentially admitted he/she tried to scam or are they still claiming something happened during shipment?


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## gmug (Feb 13, 2007)

*re Buddy / Ignore Lists Is this Option available to Forum Postings Too ?*



HowEver said:


> Yet another barely comprehensible gmug post. Apologies if English is not your first language, but... is English your first language?


Your Good at starting FLAME wars too eh ?


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

krs said:


> So has the seller essentially admitted he/she tried to scam or are they still claiming something happened during shipment?


The seller is admitting nothing. They say they will take it up with UPS - ya right!!


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

*Threadjack over...*

kydee, it looks like there won't be an easy refund, so PayPal and your credit card company will do the work. You might want to call to make sure that lengthy fax went through; could save you a headache later if they say it wasn't received.




gmug said:


> Your Good at starting FLAME wars too eh ?


Perhaps write a sentence or two of explanation, or take a minute or two of reflection before you post. These are all replies to you. I figure if someone posts a few thousand times, there are going to be a bunch that are not understood, but you're only at 53 as of now.



CubaMark said:


> I would formally like to nominate this post as the most confusing of the year-to-date.
> :clap:
> Seconders?
> M





John Clay said:


> Are you a bot or something?





guytoronto said:


> Wonderful. Not only do we have people going rabid for iPhone and throwing out constant unfounding speculation, we now have people posting threads aboout iPhone, with ZERO info, on a totally different product.





Theseus said:


> gmug's been doing a lot of this lately...could a spam bot have taken over his account?





John Clay said:


> Stop spamming...


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

No the seller is refunding my money?? They are saying once my money is refunded they will look into getting money back from UPS.

Should be pretty straight forward.


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## Maxx Power (Sep 21, 2005)

Crewser said:


> I don't want to hijack this thread. I feel badly for the OP and do hope it is resolved soon for them.
> 
> After you setup automatic withdrawl from your bank account, is there anyway to reverse this to go back to CC payments? I have been fortunate with the 250 or more purchases I have made since 1999 on eBay. My only complaint is users that won't leave a feedback until after I leave one, or those that do not leave feedbacks.
> 
> Steve


Yeah, some people do not leave feedbacks. Is it because as they quote "my mother always said, if you can't find anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all." Well, I don't believe in that crap, if you have something to say, you say it, and if its not nice, its probably with reason.

About reverting to CC payments, I'm sure you can just delete your bank account from your Paypal profile, and just repeat the add account thing, but don't set it up to be automatic. If I understood what you meant.....


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## gmug (Feb 13, 2007)

*Using Your Own Words : Going Public...*



HowEver said:


> Yet another barely comprehensible gmug post. Apologies if English is not your first language, but... is English your first language?


Reading Your Own Words or Reading between the lines on Dial Up here...



HowEver said:


> dolawren, that sounds fair to me. I'll delete this thread once I get a message with that exact request.
> 
> Velandil, you may not agree but I see this is a generous move on dolawren's part. Time after time it seems that public exposure is the only thing that moves people to settle matters where email, telephone and personal requests have failed. It also helps prevent more such occurrences. You clearly knew about dolawren's opinion on this several seasons ago, at the very least when he communicated with your aunt, and likely long before that. Keep in mind that your post in this thread, offering up an explanation and your side of the story, will disappear along with the thread once restitution is made and notice is given for deletion.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

gmug said:


> Reading Your Own Words or Reading between the lines on Dial Up here...


Sorry to hear about your dialup situation.

The quotation you posted with no context is part of an attempt to secure dolawren's funds back after he was ripped off by Velandil. Once again, I have no idea what your post is about.


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

Well we managed to get through 10 pages before people started to **** on eachother.

Cmon guys - who cares!!


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## imachungry (Sep 19, 2004)

gmug said:


> Got screwed on ebay, instead of an iphone in the package they placed a dirty dish towel in the box. - Topix


Now the seller's being streamed via topix. Nice. :clap:


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## gmug (Feb 13, 2007)

kydee6039 said:


> Well we managed to get through 10 pages before people started to **** on eachother.
> 
> Cmon guys - who cares!!


So is her DNA on the Dirty Dish Rag ?

&



imachungry said:


> Now the seller's being streamed via topix. Nice. :clap:


Top Stories Forums - Topix


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## Elric (Jul 30, 2005)

gmug said:


> Top Stories Forums - Topix


I've never seen you around on here besides this thread, but man, a/ learn engrish, at least it's CLOSE to english and we might have better luck knowing what it is you are trying to say and b/ you'll never get the reporter job if your "Headlines mash like words read together!-Topix"


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

UPDATE

Paypal contacted me telling me the seller had insufficient funds in both there paypal account and there bank account. Not really surprised. The seller did tell me they put the funds into there account yesterday so once again they are lying.

At this point I need to file a police report and fax it to paypal. From there, they will go after the seller themselves and refund me $200 (which was the amount they insured on the transaction). I'm hoping my credit card will refund the rest??

At this point this is taking up more of my time which is what I didn't want happening.

We will see what happens!!


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## gmug (Feb 13, 2007)

*On the Humour side from topix Universal City, TX wrote & asked*



Elric said:


> I've never seen you around on here besides this thread, but man, a/ learn engrish, at least it's CLOSE to english and we might have better luck knowing what it is you are trying to say and b/ you'll never get the reporter job if your "Headlines mash like words read together!-Topix"


regardless of the above : Was it a nice dish towel?


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## RobTheGob (Feb 10, 2003)

I just read the entire thread and found it quite interesting. I hope you can get your money back.

But - the main thing I wanted to comment on - it's PAID not payed!

Don't even get me started on their/there and to/too...


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## gmug (Feb 13, 2007)

*Internet Fraud Complaint Center*

FRAUD

If you are a victim of fraud or know information of fraud, 

call the Canadian PhoneBusters hotline at 1-888-495-8501. 

The Internet Fraud Complaint Center is another good site where you can file a complaint: 

http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/

For local police help, call the non-emergency police number in your local phone book


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## gmug (Feb 13, 2007)

*No RCMP or OPP Sites etc ? Here's the FBI story & more*

Federal Bureau of Investigation - Press Release
RICHMOND, VA - April 9, 2002 - Nearly 43 percent of all reported Internet fraud comes from auction fraud, according to the Internet Fraud Complaint Center's ...
Federal Bureau of Investigation - Press Release

Fraud Bureau - Web Fraud and Web Scams Complaint Centre providing Information on internet scams and internet fraud.

So We Here Delete Scam's

There must be a Canadian Place to for Admin's here to Forward Send Info for Us ALL

like https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup

Internet Fraud Information: USA.gov


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## Elric (Jul 30, 2005)

What's her address, let's all go visit.


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## gmug (Feb 13, 2007)

*imachungry posted her supposed address wonder if reverse phone #*

will confirm it ? can a pict of the towel be placed here ?


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

UPDATE

Right now I'm in the process of receiving the refund. The funds have to clear and hopefully by the time I get back from chicago on sunday this whole situation will be over with + I will have a new IPHONE purchased from the Apple store - FINALLY!!

Until then, lets keep this civil.


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## HowEver (Jan 11, 2005)

kydee6039 said:


> UPDATE
> 
> Right now I'm in the process of receiving the refund. The funds have to clear and hopefully by the time I get back from chicago on sunday this whole situation will be over with + I will have a new IPHONE purchased from the Apple store - FINALLY!!
> 
> Until then, lets keep this civil.


That's great news! Is the refund actually from the seller, or is it from PayPal?


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## gmug (Feb 13, 2007)

*Yes Great News So Far & Dunnegan, MO American Writer posted*

I think ebay is a grand idea but their are many crooks selling on ebay and I think it is getting worse. And I think it's way past time they were gone after by the law and ebay. It is ashame because many honest sellers and buyers are losing because of these parasites and criminals.


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

refund in progress ~ + posting from iphone ~ man i love this thing!!!


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## gmug (Feb 13, 2007)

*GOOD FOR YOU & ALL assistance here as PayPal Can be sticky*

here's a sample for Others
ebay, paypal


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## kydee6039 (Jul 11, 2007)

FINAL UPDATE

Refund was processed today from seller. 

Thanks to everyone for all the advice / help.

Please lock it up!!


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