# Aliens, UFOs and Other Phenomenon. Are We Alone?



## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I know there is a certain risk being labelled by posting a subject like this, but I have long been fascinated by the possible existence of other life forms.

I guess you could say I am an amateur student of the paranormal and a skeptic in some areas, but also a believer that anything is possible.

The whole Roswell incident has been studied to death by those both pro and con, but is still intriguing to many. Canadians still report "sightings" nearly every day, be they false, true or hoax.

Cattle mutilations and crop circles are commonly reported right across the globe, including here in Alberta.

A few weeks ago I was in a wholesale book clearance centre and picked up a copy of this book:










It is one of the most believable of books on the subject I have yet to read, mostly due to the credentials of the author, an ex-policeman who kind of stumbled into the field after retiring.

I thought it might be interesting to determine if any members have views on the subject that either support, debunk or entertain the possibility such things do in fact exist.

For example, these pictures were taken in Calgary and reported in September of 2004.

Any serious input or opinions appreciated. 

Cheers


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## bopeep (Jun 7, 2004)

Crop circles have been 'explained' many times over. 

There is a radio talk show on CFRB 1010 am in Toronto that discusses these types of things. 

Do I think other lifeforms exist? I think that it would be stupid to refute the possibility. Whether space ships actually come to earth and abduct people, livestock etc ...well, I don't know about that. 

Comfortably perched on the fence. 

Cheers
Bo


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I find it nearly impossibe to believe that we are the only forms of life in the vast expanse of the Universe. Thus, yes, I feel that there is life out there...........somewhere. Have they visited earth? I can't say. Have I seen a UFO? No. Do I believe that they are possible? Yes. Are all the sightings, crop circles, markings in the deserts and cliff sides proof that UFO's exist? I cannot say.

Thus, I leave the door open to the possibility. However, I feel that scam artists and people with genuine clinical mentally imbalances have caused enough doubt so as to cloud the issue. One can only hope that life beyond our earth are appreciative of poetry, philosophy, doxies, music, art, the beauty of nature, doxies, the richness of a child's laughter, and the smile of an adult who has met his/her soulmate. We shall see.


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

I am fascinated as well regarding the UFO phenomenon. While I have had no encounters to speak of, At a very early age I have always believed that we are not alone.

There is an equation called the Drake equation that calculates the possibility of life (other than ours) in our Milky Way Galaxy;

N = R* fp ne fl fi fc L

where, 

N = The number of communicative civilizations
R* = The rate of formation of suitable stars (stars such as our Sun)
fp = The fraction of those stars with planets. (Current evidence indicates that planetary systems may be common for stars like the Sun.)
ne = The number of Earth-like worlds per planetary system
fl = The fraction of those Earth-like planets where life actually develops
fi = The fraction of life sites where intelligence develops
fc = The fraction of communicative planets (those on which electromagnetic communications technology develops)
L = The "lifetime" of communicating civilizations

Frank Drake's own current solution to the Drake Equation estimates 10,000 communicative civilizations in the Milky Way.

That's just our Galaxy!!!!! Imagine what can be found elsewhere!!!

To say that we are alone is naive. The universe is infinite. There has to be other life. In fact they are here.

Incidents such as Roswell, Rendlesham, and more recently Phoenix, Arizona, have shown this to be true. Credible witnesses, Military, NASA, and other Government employees have come forward to tell their stories about what they saw. There are documents from various branches of the US Government stating that UFO's exist. There have been manuals written on how to deal with UFO's (Project Blue Book), boards formed (Majestic 12), Presidents have claimed to have seen UFO's (Jimmy Carter) not to mention countless other declassified and leaked documents proving their existence.

It just seems highly unlikely that we are the only life form in this infinite Universe. Some say that it is impossible to travel these great distances. I say, how do you know for sure? Is that what Physics teach us? How do we know this is absolute? Are we the most intelligent species in this universe? Do we know for certain what is out there?

Such travel may be impossible for us now. Going to the moon was impossible 100 years ago. Look how far we have come. So why is it so hard to believe that there is intelligent life out there that has the knowledge and technology to visit us?


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## New Coke (Jul 13, 2004)

All that alien UFO rubbish is rubbish. I don't take my cues from this guy: Noted UFOlogist Stanton Friedman


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

> Crop circles have been 'explained' many times over.


Correction: "Some" Crop Circles have been explained. Others cannot. The sheer size and mathematical complexity of these Crop Circles could not have been done by hoaxers over night. As well, some Crop Circles that appear in Corn Fields, the stalks are bent over but not broken. Every Crop Circle done by hoaxers in corn fields have had the stalks broken.

People and investigators who have seen these up close have unexplained reactions when entering these circles such as euphoria, and electronic instruments going completely dead. Once they leave the circle, everything returns to normal, including their instruments.

Are these the markings of UFO's or Aliens? Or are they some sort of weird Magnetic phenomenon? I don't know for sure, but at present they still remain unexplained.

For those who are interested in the sheer number of sightings that come in please visit this web site:

HBCCUFO.com 

It is a Canadian UFO reporting site run by a fellow, Brian Vike out in B.C.


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## MacGenius (Nov 13, 2001)

New Coke:

I can't figure out in your post if you are being sacastic or serious.

Stan Friedman is probably the most respected UFOlogist out there. Here's a guy that spent 14 years working US classified nucelar programs and has been researching the UFO phenomenon for 40 years. I've seen him speak twice and he knows what he's talking about.

The biggest problem about this subject is the fact that the US intelligence agencies, combined with the military has indoctrinated not only the public, but most importantly the media into burshing the whole thing off as "nonsense". In 1953 the CIA sponsored a "scientific investigation" (Robertson Panel) over the course of a weekend with hand-picked scientists to recommend what should be done. Their conslusion:

EDUCATIONAL PROGRAM

The Panel's concept of a broad educational program integrating efforts of all concerned agencies was that it should have two major aims: education and debunking.

The training aim would result in proper recognition of unusually illuminated objects (e.g., balloons, aircraft reflections) as well as natural phenomena (meteors, fireballs, mirages, noctilucent clouds). Both visual and radar recognition are concerned. There would be many levels in such education from enlisted personnel to command and research personnel. Relative emphasis and degree of explanation of different programs would correspond to the categories of duty (e.g., radar operators; pilots; control tower operators; Ground Observer Corps personnel; and officers and enlisted men in other categories). This training should result in a marked reduction in reports caused by misidentification and resultant confusion.

The "debunking" aim would result in reduction in public interest in "flying saucers" which today evokes a strong psychological reaction. This education could be accomplished by mass media such as television, motion pictures, and popular articles. Basis of such education would be actual case histories which had been puzzling at first but later explained. As in the case of conjuring tricks, there is much less stimulation if the "secret" is known. Such a program should tend to reduce the current gullibility of the public and consequently their susceptibility to clever hostile propaganda. The Panel noted that the general absence of Russian propaganda based on a subject with so many obvious possibilities for exploitation might indicate a possible Russian official policy.

This code of conduct by the military, intelligence agencies, government and media is still in effect to this day. You cannot rely on the media because "they're in on it". If you want proof, read Terry Hansen's book called "The Missing Times" Look it up on Amazon. Fantastic book.

The whole subject is certainly a favorite of mine and I've spent many years looking into this. I'm convinced something not from this Earth or plane of existence is here, observing us, performing some sort of genetic program and much more.
When people come up and say it could not possibly be so, then I receommend they ignore all witness testimony and good look solely on declassified US and Canadian Government documents on the subject. ITS REAL folks.

The stupidest comment I hear about this is that people are not "reliable witnesses" and "I"ll beleive it when I see one". You know, I've never been to Tokyo but I don't doubt it exists. We have photographs and we have people who claim to have been there. So why is it so hard to beleive a person who's seen one?

I might have even seen one back in 1995. I'm not sure what it was but it certainly unusual. Convential aircraft that we know of do not go 5000 miles an hour, stop on a dime, drop, come back, zip zag and whip away into space. Behaviour of these things is what sets them apart.

Anyhow, this is getting long winded, let's get some serious talk about it and see what happens.

Oh, one more recommendation: Get the new DVD called "Out of the Blue" from Amazon.ca They have a website called outoftheblue.tv Best documentary on the subject you will ever see.

Peter Jennings productions is also working on a 2 or 3 hour prime-time program on this subject due out in February or so. A little vird told me they are going to do a good job on this and not some usual "fluff piece". Time will tell I guess.


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## MacGenius (Nov 13, 2001)

Here's a little video shot last year in Vancouver that might help some of you...

http://www.hbccufo.com/videos/ufomare_Bband.mov


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## agent4321 (Jun 25, 2004)

Come on people...

Here's a little bedtime reading.

Demon Haunted World


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## bryanc (Jan 16, 2004)

As a scientist and a skeptic, I can't say that I 'believe' in UFOs, but that doesn't mean I believe extraterrestrial life does _not_ exist...I just have no evidence that it does.

But to be rational about it, we have to start with a falsifyable hypothesis. The hypothesis that life exists somewhere out there isn't falsifiable (unless we can somehow exhaustively explore the entire universe). So we have to start with the hypothesis that life does _not_ exist elsewhere. Then a single discovery can falsify the hypothesis and we've increased our understanding of the universe.

As much as I'd like to live to interact with extraterrestrial intelligences, I'll be happy if we can find fossilized bacteria on Mars, or interesting organic scum on Titan or Europa.

Cheers


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Bryanc, why start with a null hypothesis? Did not gravity exist, or the earth rotate around its axis and then revolve around the sun even though it was not explained or quantified?


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## Pelao (Oct 2, 2003)

I'll share bopeep's fence, if she has room.

I sort of hope there is life out there.

By the way, for those of you who are bored:

The photo SINC links us to, of the 2 'planes and the possible UFO: the photographer is concerned about the planes being close together. They are in fact far apart. The vertical separation is indicated by the difference in the vapor trails. Horizontal separation is not so clear, but is controlled by Air Traffic Control.

One would hope that the supposed UFO is not in fact a sewage dump by one of the 'planes...


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## Loafer (Jan 7, 2004)

I have been utterly fascinated by UFO sightings for years.
Out of all the sightings arund the world that are studied and ultimately 'debunked' in some way or another there are always some which defy all explanations.


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## K_OS (Dec 13, 2002)

To quote Fox Mulder from the X-Files "the truth is out there"

Laterz


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

> The vertical separation is indicated by the difference in the vapor trails.


I am no pilot, but could another explanation for the difference in vapor trails, be that one is a large commercial jet (4 engines) and the other a smaller corporate or even fighter jet (2 engines), at nearly the same altitude?

Cheers


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I'm with bryanc ....I really don't like the physics involved even in communication let alone visiting but then again as Arthur C Clarke pointed out 
_Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic._

I try to imagine a Renaissance "scientist" trying to deal with what we take for granted today. It would "seem" impossible from what he would know then of the physical world.

There ARE a couple that bother me.
Rendlesham Forest, for sure....that's just plain strange for a military institution.

The other is Travis Walton's story tho that has many grounds for being very skeptical but the Rendlesham Forest incident really is bizarre as well as that last bit over Phoenix which thousands saw

quicktime video 

Once more that has a possible military explanation but Rendlesham Forest really does not. There were some very credible witnesses with very incredible and detailed descriptions of something which appears beyond our current technology.

http://ufos.about.com/library/weekly/aa030998.htm

This one bothers me probably the most and fits with "technology we do not yet comprehend".

Count me skeptically but cautiously so on "observer" craft of some sort.

I mean there are security military police giving this description



> . Early in the morning of 27 Dec 80 (approximately 0300L), two USAF security police patrolmen saw unusual lights outside the back gate at RAF Woodbridge. Thinking an aircraft might have crashed or been forced down, they called for permission to go outside the gate to investigate. The on duty flight chief responded and allowed three patrolmen to proceed on foot. The individuals reported seeing a strange glowing object in the forest. The object was described as being metallic in appearance and triangular in shape, approximately two to three meters across the base and approximately two meters high. It illuminated the entire forest with a white light. the object itself had a pulsating red light on top and a bank(s) of blue lights underneath. The object was hovering or on three legs. As the patrolmen approached the object, it maneuvered through the trees and disappeared. At this time the animals on a nearby farm went into a frenzy. The object was briefly sighted approximately an hour later near the back gate.
> 
> One of the patrolmen, Staff Sergeant Jim Penniston, later reported that, as they neared the object:
> 
> ...



















We will likely if we make it through the next 50 years with technical civilization intact send long term probes to other solar systems with "life potential" planets.

The next gen space telescopes and even some earthbound scopes will soon be identifying those.

We do generational trips now - they will get longer.
A military base would be an obvious "snoop" target for a robot observer looking for telltale signs ( radiation perhaps - it was a nuclear base ).

Some of the observations fit with a beamed - perhaps microwave power in the air - 

That one bugs me.....


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## MacGenius (Nov 13, 2001)

I invite all of you to have a look at www.diclosureproject.org

Of particular interest is the May 2001 National Press Club event they put on. They had 22 of over 400 military, government and private contractor witnesses who broke their security oaths and spoke publicly about their experiences. This particular group is only looking for "credible" witnesses pulled from the above mentioned list. No hillbillies or crackpots. These are people with the keys to nukes and the airspace above us. They're not crazy.

Download and watch the event, its a real eye opener.


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## oryxbiker (Nov 29, 2001)

I "know" there are no explanations for some crop circles. Some years ago, a crop circle showed up somewhere in the US(don't remeber where but it was on the crop circle show on TLC) and it had over 900, ya thats right 900 individual circles making up the entire crop circle. Those little gray bubbles in those pictures look clouds to me.


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## MacGenius (Nov 13, 2001)

Actually, the largest crop circle reported was in Wiltshire England back a couple of years ago. It had some 409 circles in it.

No matter what the source is, most of them are very beautiful and intricately designed.

One thing to ponder: If people are going around "hoaxing" and creating these things in the night then how do they have the time to say weave the plants into 5-6 layers on top of one another and do 200 or so circles? Why are the people not getting caught? I reckon that would be big news: "Hoaxers caught making crop circle in farmer's field". The media would have a field day (no pun intended).


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

http://www.circlemakers.org/thegathering.html

Draw your own conclusions.


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## Codger (Aug 1, 2004)

I've been looking at this thread evolving for the last little while.
I was trying to ignore it. 
I've done a lot of flying in small aircraft and know quite a few pilots, heavy iron commercial to small singles. Very few will get on another pilot's case and tell him that he's "full of it" if this subject comes up. A normal response is for someone in a very sarcastic voice to respond, "Hi, I'm from Nav Canada and I'm here to help you complete this report in complete confidence". Most will just cautiously advise a fellow pilot to keep his mouth shut and not say a thing to anyone. Some things are explainable but there are more that aren't. 
Do I personally believe that there are aliens hanging around? No.
Would I testify in court that they are not here? No. Perhaps I ought to conclude for myself that after all the other explanations fail to satisfy an occurrence the remaining possibility is the correct answer. I'm just not there. Maybe I'm just too old and too much of a skeptic. At the same time I have to say that I enjoy reading Science Fiction and somewhere in my heart is the hope that like many of the things that were science fiction earlier in my life and have now become reality, maybe some others will come to pass as well.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Codger ....you reflect my view exactly, I'm a a sailplane pilot and also have run around in small aircraft.
We saw one very spooky thing that sure could have been interpreted as pulsating UFO from a distance - the hair was standing up on both pilot and I but turned out to be a strange reflection of an oil flare on a cloud above it.

Most pilots I know are pretty unflappable ( yeah yeah horrible pun ) and not prone to exaggerate things. Laconic might be a good word.
But there are just too many sane people reporting too many "impossible to explain" sightings for it not to be bothersome.

Then I guess the Israeli's must have scratched their heads when the US produced battlefield pictures from above during the 5 day war that were "impossible".

We know now the US flew the Blackbird over to take the picts but then   
And think if someone had visually seen the Blackbird - it looks like something from outer space even now.
So do the stealth craft from many angles and who knows what the Aurora looks like or can do.









But even with those possibilities for some events...stuff like the Rendlesham Forest events and others are hard to explain from a purely terrestrial viewpoint.

But the physics suck.


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

I don't doubt that there are things in the sky that can be explained. Take a look at the Nevada Desert for example (read: Area 51)

Area 51 is the most secret nonexistent Military base in the U.S. This is where black projects are developed and tested. Aircraft such as the Blackbird and both Stealth Aircraft were developed and tested there. I'm sure you would see strange aircraft in the sky there at night.

As MacDoc said "who knows what the Aurora can do." Just look at the size of the runway at Area 51. That's one long runway. Something must travel at extremely high speeds to require a runway of that length.










However, Area 51 is not home to Alien technology. There is an other base close to Area 51 called Area S4. This is apparently where the reverse engineering of Alien craft is taking place.


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

Here is an interesting report of a sighting by the Crew of JAL1628.

The Flight of JAL1628 

As MacGenius mentioned there is a project called The Disclosure Project. This case is profiled in The Disclosure Project.


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## Gretchen (Aug 16, 2004)

Scuuuuuullllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!









I find it amusing that most of the _UFO industry_ seems to center around the US, like somehow the aliens know what the US is and that is where they should interact most of the time. It's like they know the US has the greatest media circus going.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

That arrayed exhaust really sounds like an experimental engine. An arrayed series of pulse detonation engines would look and act something like that and no one knows what the Aurora looks like or it's propulsion system.

Integrated distributed propulsion arrays would give unprecedented agility - if you look at the left hand concept craft it's close to what was described in some aspects. Big square propulsion unit at the back.









http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/AERO/base/rac.htm

















Those below are real engines - if Pop Sci is allowed access to photograph these..........think what's actually out there.



> Posted on Thursday, August 14 @ 23:43:20 CDT
> 
> Popular Science is running an interesting article about the race to replace the jet turbine with a more efficient source of Mach-breaking airpower: the pulse-detonation engine. It works by detonating (instead of slow burning) fuel hundreds to thousands of times a second. PDE technology is poised to make supersonic passenger flights and space travel affordable.
> 
> ...


Is it entirely unrealistic to think a craft may well be flying already far off the beaten path and the test pilot decided to have some late night fun??  

There's lots more on PDE and whatever the pilot saw sort of conforms with that technology.

And any stealth design would be erratic on radar depending on the angle it happened to be at.









Good story. Who knows what the gnomes at teh skunkworks are up to these days.
The produced the Blackbird with slide rules after all.

Think about 40 years later


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

> find it amusing that most of the UFO industry seems to center around the US, like somehow the aliens know what the US is and that is where they should interact most of the time. It's like they know the US has the greatest media circus going.


There were sightings/reports in Russia, however, these never came to light until recently. Keep in mind that the US and Russia were in the middle of a cold war, not much was leaked out of Russia during that time.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Besides Mexico has been a hot bed of sightings and most of China and India are not known for
a) clear skies
b) wide spread communications.

Loads in Britain too- I'd say perhaps the "lunacy" aspect is more prevalent in the US given what else they beleive









Now Australians............ this one is spooky - same night, nearby distorted voices



> Fm: Executive News Svc. [76374,303]
> SYDNEY, Australia (AP) -- Police said Thursday they received two
> reports of unidentified flying objects, one of which looked like a huge
> egg cup, and that they were treating the matter seriously.
> ...












[ November 14, 2004, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: MacDoc ]


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## iGeeK (Jan 27, 2003)

bobeep sez *Do I think other lifeforms exist? I think that it would be stupid to refute the possibility. Whether space ships actually come to earth and abduct people, livestock etc ...well, I don't know about that. 
*

Just wait until some of your sheepes go a' missin'. Or turn up with implants, or...

Yup, aliens!

iG/<


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## Codger (Aug 1, 2004)

This thread is going all over the place. Don't know much about crop circles although I've flown over a couple.
Propulsion systems are being developed all the time and I don't for a second doubt that there will be some that come to light that absolutely amaze us. Things that appear and then disappear don't bother me either. Phase shift is a possible explanation. We already do it with noise cancellation at lower frequencies.
I've been up close to SR71. To me it's one of the most beautiful things that man has ever created. The minds that were capable of imagining that craft and then making it reality couldn't have stopped there.
I've experienced enough of a G-load to crack a couple of my ribs which brings me to the question that I can't shake. From some of the descriptions of the rapid course changes that these craft take at the speeds that they take them at, a human pilot would be hair, teeth and eyeballs plastered around the inside of the cockpit. So, if these reports are to be believed, are the craft remotely piloted or who the heck is flying these things?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

> So, if these reports are to be believed, are the craft remotely piloted or who the heck is flying these things?


And therein lies the age old question!

Cheers


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

......and why are they coming here??????????????


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## Codger (Aug 1, 2004)

".....and why are they coming here??????????????"

Why not?
Just imagine the postcards home.

Nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.


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## MacGenius (Nov 13, 2001)

Codger, I'm with you on that though. However please keep in mind that we have a tendency to think about technology from OUR understanding of physics and propulsion systems we have developed.

Paul Hill was an ex-NASA engineer/manager at Langley Research and he published a book call Unconventional Flying Objects. He did a scientific examination of the behaviour based on reports and came to the conclusion that these things were operated by either a gravity manipulation system or some form or electro-magnetic drive. The result is the partial or whole cancellation of innertial and or gravity both outside and INSIDE the craft. If you have little or no innertia than you don't get to be the meat soup you'd expect to be during those maneuvers.

That is of course if we assume that some of these are physical and not some manifestation of an alternate reality popping into our realm of existence... My thoughs on this is that because we are dealing with a multiude of species "visiting" us then they can't all have the same systems and perhaps some of them are inhabitants of another reality who can join ours as it suits them.

Food for thought...


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## Codger (Aug 1, 2004)

MacGenius. 
Thanks for the reference. Chapters has it.
I'm not of the "not invented here" so it can't exist school.
I still would like to think that advanced propulsion/physics applications might have been developed here. That those technologies have a lid kept on them doesn't lead in to the conspiracy theory of the day. I've had to sign many a non-disclosure in my life. That there are simultaneous existances is palatable. I often wonder as my grandmother did.. what would the world be like now if she had killed Hitler by pushing a flower pot off her balcony when she had the opportunity. 
Making the jump to off planet visitors is still a bit much for me at this point.
Any other sources of theoretical physics that applies to this topic that you are aware of? Think I've had my fill of reading books on politics for awhile


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

I can just see getting an eviction notice. "Owner wants to make the property into a condo/golf course/retreat/oasis." I guess the last place on earth to go will be Salt Spring Island, which would go at the strike of midnight............12:30 in NL.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I am so pleased to see how serious members have treated this subject, with the very odd exception. I was afraid it might turn into one of those "go away crazy person" responses.

It certainly reaffirms my belief in the open minds of ehMac members.

Thanks people, and keep those views coming. You never know where it all may lead!

Cheers


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Sinc, I think that the "crazies" and the scam artists have done their share to discredit this topic worldwide for some, along with government secrecy. However, there is just too many things that cannot be logically or scientifically explained to make this a topic than cannot be taken seriously by many.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I'm thinking "on planet" advanced - especially the Japanese pilot report is easily in the realms of whatever they've cooked up recently.

A niggle in my mind for some other events might involved robotics in which case G-loads are about meaningless for maneuvers .
As for "who". They could be autonomous exploration craft that might "phone home" once in a while when they find interesting stuff.
I mean the plans are on the drawing boards for long flights to other stars. Propulsion is an issue currently but the exploration aspect is not.

Also observers can be fooled by depth perception - even as a pilot I get startled once in a while at the strange attitudes commercial jets appear to take as they come around the landing circuit and you view them from odd angles. A jet taking off, climbing and banking around to a new heading looks just about impossible.

If you look at the wild agility of the Raptor......question is - what else is out there the military is sitting on.
Stealth choppers are excellent candidates for strange doings.

Codger I'm jealous of you being up close and personal with a Blackbird  It is an inspiring craft - Buck Rogers for real with all the whacky technology that goes with it. I mean a leaky Mach 3 craft







I'd love to be a fly on the wall when THAT was decided as the only feasible design.









Odder tho - the increase in sightings and reports coincide with world wide growth in radio and TV signals.
Our planet stopped being "silent" early in the 20th century and many reports started in the 40s and increased tho there are reports much earlier in history.


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## Codger (Aug 1, 2004)

MacDoc:
SR71s are in Museums all over the place. Static display isn't as awe inspiring as seeing one at full song. It's still an amazing craft to walk around and look at. Just pick a quiet day at whatever museum you can get to. I've never been around any other aircraft that would tell you just how desperately it needed to fly. 

As to the increase in sightings..... Don't know if there really was an increase. Maybe just more reporting. What percentage are really reported now? I doubt that I'd say anything about it even if ET's little brother was sitting in my living room sharing a scotch. Who needs the aggravation?

DrG: The island is immune. One of the residents there would talk them out of it. Trust me.

Sinc: You should be used to it by now. How many times has your use of a Mac been brought up in conversations with Windows users and the response has been a polite look at you as though you were an alien. Oh Shxx, the 2 Steves are aliens. LOL.


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## Codger (Aug 1, 2004)

Just went looking around. Been more than a few years since the TR3 project was mentioned so I haven't thought about it.
Suppose some of this could be relevant to the discussion.
There does seem to be this conviction that the technologies are not from here. I don't see why not. Seems that the same people who insist that these technologies prove that ET exists would be the same ones who would have insisted that the SR71 was reverse engineered from ET machines at the time that it started operational status. I'm not buying it. I'd love to fly a machine that could handle 40G and not turn me in to mush. If some jockey is actually driving one of these all I can say is that my jealousy is absolutely beyond measure. 

http://www.rense.com/general5/trb.htm

part of it;
Mr. Fouche describes the TR-3B's propulsion system as follows:

"A circular, plasma filled accelerator ring called the Magnetic Field Disrupter, surrounds the rotatable crew compartment and is far ahead of any imaginable technology... The plasma, mercury based, is pressurized at 250,000 atmospheres at a temperature of 150 degrees Kelvin, and accelerated to 50,000 rpm to create a super-conductive plasma with the resulting gravity disruption.

The MFD generates a magnetic vortex field, which disrupts or neutralizes the effects of gravity on mass within proximity, by 89 percent...

The current MFD in the TR-3B causes the effect of making the vehicle extremely light, and able to outperform and outmaneuver any craft yet ...My sources say the performance is limited only the stresses that the human pilots can endure. Which is a lot, really, considering along with the 89% reduction in mass, the G forces are also reduced by 89%.

The crew of the TR-3B should be able to comfortable take up to 40Gs... Reduced by 89%, the occupants would feel about 4.2 Gs.


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## 10macs (Feb 14, 2004)

Some great discussion..I've been interested in this stuff since I was a kid. After spending 30 years in a science related field I can say I believe we are not alone. There must be 1000's of other life forms in the universe; however anyone who thinks we have been visited has been watching too much TV. I don't think aliens would spend time travelling to earth to make crop circles and mutilate cows. How stupid are people? As for Unexplained Flying Objects they are just that...unexplained. Too many people equate UFO = alien life form. I hope we "make contact" before I die but I'm not holding my breath.


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

> As for Unexplained Flying Objects they are just that...unexplained.


True enough. Some people just jump at the chance to have their voices heard and will concoct some pretty outlandish stories. But I think that these stories from these crack pots are part of the reluctance to report legitimate sightings from credible witnesses.

There are sightings that are too convincing to turn a blind eye:

The Gulf Breeze UFO









And the first reported Abduction case
Barney & Betty Hill


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## Codger (Aug 1, 2004)

Interesting what comes up when you go looking. 
http://www.nidsci.org/articles/8_25trireport.php


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Wow Codger, great site!

That will keep me busy for a while.

Thanks for the link.

Cheers


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## Cameo (Aug 3, 2004)

If the universe stretches on to infinity then it would be kind of obtuse to believe that we are the only forms of life. I agree with the earlier statement that we may not have been visited but who really knows the truth?

I guess I have the same feelings about "ghosts" You would have to prove to me they exist or they don't.


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## Snapple Quaffer (Sep 2, 2003)

Does anyone here take part in the Seti distributed computing project?


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

I think SETI is a Joke myself.

Why would beings capable of reaching us use radio waves to contact us? Doesn't make sense.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

I did the SETI thing for about two years. After all that time with not so much as a peep, I abandoned the project.

I'm with MaxPower. It is a waste of time.

Cheers


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## Snapple Quaffer (Sep 2, 2003)

I don't think the people behind the SETI project necessarily _expect_ an alien civilisation to try and radio _us_. Neither am I an apologist for the SETI project.
If, however, there are sentient and techologically proficient beings out there, and if they use or create radio waves in some fashion, there might be or might have been some leakage into space, just as there has been from Earth.
The idea is to try and establish whether, out of all of the radio noise we are able to detect, there are any signals that are regular enough to give cause to suspect that they were deliberately created.

There are so many ifs piled upon other ifs here that we're talking vanishingly small probabilities - what mathematicians would refer to as small but finite. In other words there is a chance, but, well - on you go if you want.

Sinc, did you expect to get a signal saying "Howdy" within just two years?

As for jokes, well, lets start with UFOs.

I can believe there is some form of life elsewhere in the Universe, but vaguely humanoid-like beings whizzing around our atmosphere in tin cans doing unspeakable things to cattle and rural types?

With great respect, and not wishing to give any offence whatsoever, I rather think that there is a basic human need to believe in the fantastic. Ghosts, magic, elves, fairies, Father Christmas. Such things ritualise our optimism as well as saving us from having to think too hard about what really is happening around us.

Most of the fantastic is harmless and fun, but I can't see taking these ideas too seriously. I don't think we'll ever "Make Contact". The probablities are too small.

UFOs. Aliens?
Do I think it's possible? Yes. Do I think it's probable? No.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

> Sinc, did you expect to get a signal saying "Howdy" within just two years?


No SQ, I sure did not, and it was a long time ago.

My point being that in two years, I didn't even get a "blip" or "spike" as many others in the program seemed to get with regularity.

Besides, back then I was on a Performa 5260 and it just used up too much processor running 24/7.

Cheers


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

*"A waste of time"???* - that's like stating that studying anything in space is a "waste of time".
We look a galaxies far distant in both space and time to see what we can learn about the universe we inhabit.

Looking for a radio signature from another civilization is no different and may be far more important than the launch the other day of the gamma burst Swift sateliite.

The terrific thing about Seti is that it is effectively utilizing technology and computer time that IS wasted already.
The tracking scope is old and out dated but perfect for this purpose and what's needed to analyse the huge amount of data is the massively parallel crunch of million of computers whose clock cycles are otherwise completely wasted.
Average computing power use is in the 3 % range leaving 97% for use on this type of project.
Amazing computing projects have been achieved already by this technique and SETI is an ideal candidate.

Even NOT finding anything yet provides information.
No one at SETI is expecting someone is signalling us directly - that's extremely unlikely since out own radio signature has not travelled very far into the galaxy....less than 100 light years which is not a large volume of space.

But older civilizations would have been radiating "organized" signals perhaps for millenia or even eons. Finding those potential signals, or NOT finding them both have value to our understanding of the possible intelligent life/technical civilization question.

I just hope OUR early signals...say Amos n Andy or The Ed Sullivan Show don't scare our companions too much .  

It's a good project, it costs nothing to support except maybe 10 minutes to set up and you directly participate in an enormously important and completely scientific hunt for answers to a significant question.....are we alone?

Why does knowing what birds are in your backyard or not count as interesting and useful but knowing if or who we share our galaxy is NOT important!!!????
Now THAT's nonsense. It IS important and it IS easy to support.

Analyses have shown there SHOULD be other technical civilizations - if there are NOT then there may be dangers we are unaware of. If there ARE then that's terrific news even tho we may never be able to dialogue with them in any meaningful way.

Speaking of which I think it's time to revive a ehMac SETI team with all these spanking new G5s available. Anyone want to volunteer to set it up or revive it.???  

In the meantime here's the link for the OSX version

http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/download.html 

Crunch away. It sure is indicative of the G5 horsepower to see how quickly the data unit analysis is done. Looks like about 2.5 hours..... a far cry from my earlier machines.

••••

Here's some other distributed computing projects that people can participate in including weather and protein analysis. Put those Macs to work ALL the time.

http://planetary.org/html/UPDATES/seti/[email protected]/Update_082404.html

[ November 21, 2004, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: MacDoc ]


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## Snapple Quaffer (Sep 2, 2003)

SINC, I understand and sympathise with your not getting a spike or anything interesting in two years (not that you're too heartbroken, I suspect, eh?). I had a 4400 when I first got going with SETI. Boy, was that thing slow! It took about 75 hours to process one unit of data. My PB processed units in 6 to 8 hours depending - I don't run it on my PB now.

I just think it's a long haul, the whole project, with very little likelihood of finding anything except noise. I don't mean to say that I think it's rubbish and should be stopped - that's not the way human curiosity works. We're nothing if not nosy and imaginative.

On to a more cautionary note about aliens, though. Simon Conway Morris, an Oxford palaeontologist, is quoted as saying (I paraphrase) that the last thing we should do is make ourselves visible to anything sentient lurking out there. Almost all of the sentient species that have ever lived on Earth have been savagely predatory. There is no reason to suspect that extraterrestrials would be any different. If the phone rings, don't answer!


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

You mean like humans??









I don't buy that - the energy costs of any "threat" would far outweigh any conceivable value.

Even on dear old mother earth the costs of war are currently very suspect against any "gain" ......a $billion a week was the latest number.

Fear should NEVER be a factor in this kind of search. Our beacon is already lit for all to see anyway.


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## Urban_Legend (May 29, 2003)

Interesting topic and discussions. 

If there is other life out there, they are not as intelligent as us humans simply for the matter of what we have seen as either hoaxes or reality.

What I mean is, why would some other life form decide to make crop circles? Honestly since we humans are able to duplicate this method, then I guess this makes them pretty stupid eh? So much for higher intelligence life forms out there.

What about these UFO shape aircraft? Why do they all look the same? I can build my own UFO that looks the same with the lights etc. Heck even A51 flies these things around on their own turf. Once again our life form is much more advanced by duplicating another life forms aircraft? Hmmmm....

And why is it we can track everything in outer space from meteor rocks to space junk and satellites, but not one single UFO that enters the atmosphere? They are only detected when someone sees them in a trailer park area over the US? 

You have to remember we track millions upon millions and millions of outer space each day. Many parts the globe are constantly tracking and recording new stars, galaxies, radio waves etc. We can see a wide spread area of a galaxy 24/7 in each direction and we have yet to point out a UFO in any of them during flight. Even if for one moment the aircraft did go at a speed of light that we could not see with the naked eye, it would be picked up with the other instruments out there scanning the universe.

I would love to believe that every UFO sighting resembles the same shape format, so either there exists a UFO dealership some where with the most boring design ever out in the galaxy, or once again we humans are great at creating duplicates of these so called intelligent life forms.

I don't know, if another life form does exist out there, they certainly are not friendly ones. Chicken ****s at most, and certainly ugly looking at the least.  Plus they have no imagination when it comes to designing aircraft. I mean come on add some spoilers or something and at Christmas time the least they could do is decorate the UFO with green and red lights  

I'm looking forward to reading more posts in this thread, and about that aircraft picture? What a rookie, perhaps they could learn a little about flying and ATC rules.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

All in all, a very well thought out and humerous post Urban_Legend.

BUT you did forget one thing.


> And why is it we can track everything in outer space from meteor rocks to space junk and satellites, but not one single UFO that enters the atmosphere? They are only detected when someone sees them in a trailer park area over the US?


You see, they are so advanced, they have the technology to be invisible to any of our tracking systems. They are only visible when they choose to be so.

Cheers


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## Codger (Aug 1, 2004)

Seti.
I crunched units for a couple of years. Have not gone the BOINC route. Some concerns about security.
I don't think that SETI is a waste of time. Is it the definitive test proving or disproving the existance of life out there? Absolutely not. Is there a chance that SETI might provide some useful information? Sure. 
As is probably evident from my previous posts, this topic has not been of much importantce to me. I don't lose any sleep over the existance of ET or lack therof. Having one of my computers crunching units in the background to help out some people who are curious enough about this topic to potentially come up with an answer is enough. I give money for cancer research, doesn't mean that it's of great importance to me but if they make progress then I see no downside. Might even help out someone down the road. 
This thread brought up a couple of questions that I haven't given much thought to. Now my curiosity has been piqued and I'm looking around. Do I expect to find definitive answers? No. That doesn't negate the value of looking and questioning. 
There is a certain joy in not knowing the answer to something and then digging in to find that there are more questions than answers. That's enough for this old man.


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## Snapple Quaffer (Sep 2, 2003)

> _There is a certain joy in not knowing the answer to something and then digging in to find that there are more questions than answers._


Yes! And doesn't that just sum us up as a species? We have a limitless curiosity. Basically, all we do, as a species, is fiddle and fart about. It doesn't matter whether it's building a nuclear (or is that noo-killer?) power station or whittling a piece of sapwood into the shape of a todger, we're just mucking about. In the grand order of things and on a cosmic scale, we are less than irrelevant. But our plain nosiness is what propels us. No curiosity = braindead.

Now, Codger, do you believe in UFOs?


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## jrtech (Sep 24, 2002)

Despite other opinions I will pipe up and state that I am addicted to Seti. 
Look for me at the top of the ehmac team.


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## Codger (Aug 1, 2004)

"Now, Codger, do you believe in UFOs?"

Unidentified Flying Objects. Yes. 
Do I believe that they are extra terrestrial in origin? Not at this time. I don't have enough information to come to any conclusion that satisfies me. 
Just starting to dig around looking to answer that question myself.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Radar can't find a stealth craft either - that's no definitive test and anything advanced enough to go interstellar is far beyond our early efforts.

That said I'm very skeptical due to physics _as we know it_ but look what we are currently doing right now and think about what your great grand parents would think of the idea.

The hunt for some of the fundamental particles going on as we speak are also very difficult and time consuming and very very expensive.
SETI is simply an easy group effort that MIGHT see some results.

Dark matter and dark energy are huge questions still unresolved.

The patterns uncovered in SETI will help as earth sized planets are identified in the next round of big telescopes and looking for signatures there will be much more likely to produce results.


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

> What I mean is, why would some other life form decide to make crop circles? Honestly since we humans are able to duplicate this method, then I guess this makes them pretty stupid eh? So much for higher intelligence life forms out there.


Read my earlier post regarding Crop Circles. We have been able to duplicate them, but there are some Crop Circles that are too large and mathematically complex to be hoaxes. They just can't be done in one night.



> What about these UFO shape aircraft? Why do they all look the same? I can build my own UFO that looks the same with the lights etc. Heck even A51 flies these things around on their own turf. Once again our life form is much more advanced by duplicating another life forms aircraft? Hmmmm....


Look the same???

Classic Saucer Shape









Black Triangle









Cigar Shaped UFO









These are just a sample of various UFO's that have been sighted.

You can go to UFO Evidence to view other photos of various shaped UFO's. BTW, I tend to take the more current photos with a grain of salt as they are easier to fake than the earlier photographs.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

.


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## vacuvox (Sep 5, 2003)

interesting link MasterBlaster. Those Raelians have not only learned how to clone humans; it seems they have also learned a little html.

and here is a bit of contrast.
www.ufoskeptic.org

I believe in life elsewhere in the universe. But I don't believe we are being visted by it.


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## Codger (Aug 1, 2004)

Vacuvox: thanks for the link.


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## vacuvox (Sep 5, 2003)

There are some interesting accounts on that site. Bernard Haisch says he is a skeptic not a disbeliever. I know I'm not thinking very creatively here, but the bright, coloured and/or flashing lights in some intriguingly credible encounters just make no sense to me. 

Any thoughts?


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I tell you this set of experiences certainly is very intriguing. I actually wrote a note to Anne McCaffrey the descriptions were spookily like Pern.

http://www.project1947.com/kbangel.htm

there are many like this spread across decades



> 12 May 1954 1600hrs Shepparton Victoria (36.23S 145.24E)
> 
> "Mr Ramon Estrada, of Shepparton, reported that at 4pm on May 12th 1954, he happened to see silk-like threads floating down from the sky. He also saw several long strands of this material sailing north. The average length of these strands was thirty feet. At 4.30 pm there was a similar occurrence, only the number of strands was doubled.
> 
> ...





> 9 June 1999 1000hrs (210-300) mins Esperance Western Australia (33.52S 121.54E)
> 
> "A man witnessed tonnes of white filamentous threads falling from the sky .... Paddocks, hedges, trees were covered with the stuff and it hung off power lines in great shrouds with lengths up to thirty feet long.
> 
> ...


 ....now that adds to Rendlesham Forest in my .........."no rational explanation........yet".


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2003)

.


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## Urban_Legend (May 29, 2003)

Max Power,

After looking at over 100 photos on that site, they all have one common feature to all of them, all objects of so called UFO's are out of focus, even objects that are beyond the point of the UFO are in focus. That just doesn't make sense when taking a photograph. I've taken many aviation photographs and even the most distant aircraft in the sky is not out of focus and can still be distinguished as an aircraft. Hell in some of those photos a few of them were out of focus, on purpose? shots of helicopters. I just love the people who try to pull some of those photos off and call them UFO's  If they were real, then those UFO's are giving off tons and tons amount of heat radiating from those aircraft to be that out of focus. Are we to believe that when an UFO is flying it is not made out of any material and only a gas substance? Are we to believe that a machine that size which emits tons and tons of heat around it is not detectable with our technology in the sky? Hmmmm.....

The three photos you show, all of them can be built by man, and kits are available if you have the money to do so. Not a cheap hobby by all means. 

It wasn't too long ago in Toronto I believe, perhaps a few years back? Where some kind of event was going on, I believe fireworks or some sort of lighting was beaming into the night sky. Any ways, thousands of calls were made saying they saw UFO's flying over the city. Amazing isn't it? Like I said I can't remember what the cause was, but it was pretty funny to hear that on the news the next day. Even weather balloons shot into the sky are mistaken for UFO's. 

MacDoc, interesting to note that both places are in Australia. 

I guess you have to wonder why everything is so secretive over finding UFO's. Why are humans so secret over their findings? Why are humans into making fakes? Why is the US military hiding their findings? if you believe that sort of stuff. Why does Area 51 supposedly hold UFO's they have captured in secrecy? Why does Area 51 test and build flying saucers over the desert? If all this UFO stuff is real, why are we keeping this from the rest of the humans?

Like I said earlier most of the photos on that site you provided Max Power, are of the same shape and form, may not be exact, but majority share the same features. So this can only conclude that Chrysler and Ford have joint forces on Pluto to mass produce these UFO styles with cool added features.  

As for the crop circles, like I said, if they were made by aliens then they are more stupid then we are. I wouldn't waste my intelligence on making useless crop circles on some planet in some farmers land. 

Lets take this one step further, why are we wasting our time building X planes to fly into space? Why are we wasting billions of dollars on space flights in ancient aircraft? When we have UFO's so they say at Area 51. I mean it has been years now, and yet they still haven't figured it out yet? Of course that is if you believe they actually have UFO's at Area 51 which were captured years ago. 

When these so called alien UFO ships decide to come in flocks like say 100's of them at a time, then give me a call and I will see if I can get me one of those out of focused pictures and post it up on the internet for you all to see   Until then, I welcome this challenge and maybe one day we will see thousands of these so called green aliens walking our streets and commanding our planet as take over, no wait, must stop watching hollywood movies


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## Codger (Aug 1, 2004)

Urban_Legend
I had the same thought about the out of focus pics. My own comments about the photographers were mildly less kind than yours. I was watching the Alberta election results at the same time so may have been in less than a positive frame of mind.

If there is a phase shift happening that might explain all those out of focus pics. Technically a bad analogue but sort of the same thing that happens when using a slower shutter speed taking a pic of a television picture. 

The interesting part of all this is that the photo evidence such as it is, is to me, suspect. Perhaps not intentionally fraudulent but never the less not credible enough for me.

Even if I discount the vast majority of the reports there are still enough to make me curious and not throw the whole topic in to file 13. So, (deep breath), There are some UFOs out there, I don't believe that they must be off world in orgin. 
I'm working my way through www.ufoskeptic.org
and finding out more.
The Raelians. I took a look around but their clone claims can't be confirmed so I'll write them off for now. 
This whole topic is so far out there that absolutely dismissing anything is no easier or harder than absolutely accepting anything.
It's as fascinating as it is frustrating. Coming up with a fact is pretty tough. One side says it is all BS. The other side says that it can't come up with definitive proof because of govenmental secerecy issues and on and on. 
Sure is fun trying to figure out though.


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## Codger (Aug 1, 2004)

MacDoc:

This is interesting because there was actually an analysis done.
I couldn't find a complete analysis on the site and there is tt frustrating "and other minerals".

""The witness, Peter G was some ninety kilometres east of Esperance. At 10 am he noticed thread-like substance falling out of a clear sky. There was no wind. He travelled west, and near Esperance the stuff was still falling and continued to do so till 3 pm. Trees, bushes and power lines were festooned with threads up to four and a half metres long. The ground took on a sheen as the stuff settled. Reports came in from the north, east and west from Gibson’s Soak, Condonup and Munglinup (33.43S 120.52E 80km West of Esperance), covering a 10,000 square kilometre area. The local paper ran a story and an Esperance resident Marilyn Burnet collected a sample. I had some of that sample analysed spectrographically and with electron microscopy. Copper, aluminium, zinc, iron, sodium, manganese, silicon and a number of other minerals were found in it, which eliminated the spider’s web theory..." (2)"


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Urban there was a lot more than two - I just posted a couple of the many.
So consistent over time and not the type of reporters you think as likely to be part of a wider hoax.

The Raelians and Daniken are simply nonsense dressed up with psuedoscience.  
It's stuff like that that makes it so hard to sort the garbage from the truly difficult to explain phenomena.

With gathering this material over time the consistent aspects become more defined on stuff like the threads.

Maybe there IS something to strong theory


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## Codger (Aug 1, 2004)

Hi MacDoc
It really is difficult to sort though the grunge. There is quite a bit though that is difficult to explain. I think that you've hit the nail on the head with "wider hoax". I've just started but sorting through the stuff that has been draped on to the substance is getting a bit easier. 
I take it that you've been digging around in this pit for a while?
Any hard conclusions yet?


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

Urban_Legend,

It appears that we have a bit of a miscommunication. Either you are not reading my posts or I'm not explaining myself clearly.

The pictures I posted were to show that UFO's come in all different shapes and sizes. That's all. I wasn't trying to change non-believers mind, just pointing out the fact that they are not all the same. A triangle looks completely different than a disk in my books.

And back to the crop circle discussion. I never once said that they were made by Aliens. I merely said that not all are hoaxes.

Photographs. I agree that not every photograph is genuine. However there are some that simply defy explanation. And Yes. Quite a few are out of focus. Both stills and video. I once wondered why this is so. There are a couple of explanations. First as any photographer knows that the focal length of your lens can have a great effect on the clarity of an object, unless you are using a tripod. i really don't think that these people are going to take their time and set up a tripod to photograph a UFO. Secondly, it is reported that UFO's travel in ways that conventional aircraft cannot. That is they zig and zag all over the place and at tremendous speeds. Try getting a still picture of one of these things moving all over the place.

Now on to Government secrecy. Back in 1947, or more in particular the Roswell incident, the US really didn't know what they were dealing with. Here they have this Alien Craft and before they instill mass panic to the population they want to know what the hell they are dealing with. So they sit on it for a while. Eventually we come into the Cold War. The US has no idea what the Russians are up to and vice versa. The US are reverse engineering the technology recovered from the Roswell crash (not at Area 51 BTW) and they don't know if the Russians are doing the same. If the US all of a sudden decided to disclose their findings, the Russians would know what they have been up to. Eventually this secrecy has become standard practice.

With Area 51, it is a testing ground for Black Projects. It is the most well known Military Base that does not exist (the US government denies it's existence). Perhaps it is being used to test Alien technology. But the most logical answer is they are testing new military aircraft. The U2, Black Bird, and Stealth have all been tested there. Would you really want your enemies to know what type of technology you are developing?

This brings me to the X-Plane project. This is a public project. Not associated with the government. Why would the Public have Alien technology that is a closely guarded secret by the Government?

One more thing. The little Green Men? they are not green. They're grey. - Fox Mulder


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

This site  has some interesting Canadian sightings etc.

Cheers


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

Sorry. Couldn't resist


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## MacGenius (Nov 13, 2001)

Time for me to pop in again...

The biggest problem one faces with the UFO subject is that it is riddled with misinformation and DISinformation. A good portion of it comes from the US government and their alphabet soup agencies on purpose. The US learned this "art" from the Brisith during the first world war and they have perfected it since. THe best way to hide something is to mix in some truth into the lies, that way a casual observer would dismiss the information as a hoax or something else.

Want an example? 
Suppose I say: "Grey aliens like strawberry ice cream". I've told you 2 things but you're apt to dismiss it as absurd because of the commonnality of the ice cream bit. But in reality there might be some truth in that statement, not the ice cream stuff but I just might have disclosed that we know they're here. Get the point?

So, when you delve into the subject its good to be "skeptical" but not to the point to be closed-minded. Just be aware of the potential for the above mentioned misinformation and disinformation. The mas media in this matter is probably the most responsible culprit in the pervasive thinking that this subject is taboo and only hillbillies and old ladies in tennis shoes beleive in this. This again, if you read a previous post of mine, was instigated by the CIA in the early 50s. If you read Terry Hansens book, The Missing Times, he proves that the media and intelligence agencies have close ties that work both ways. Great book.

Now, for those who are not sure about the matter, I tell them to ignore the anecdotal and witness reports from average people (as dangerous as that is, after all, they send people to the electric chair on that type of evidence) and look ONLY at leaked, released or declassified US government documents. There is enough proof in there to cast any shadow of a doubt that there IS something going on in the skies that is not explainable. Call it what you want.

If you're not into buying a book on the subject and just want to look at a good repository of FOIA documents on the subject just go here:
http://www.bvalphaserver.com/contentid-9.html
Pay attention to the number of pages from the Army, FBI and CIA. Lots there.

John Greenewald has been collecting documents like this since he was 15. If you want to read a book with nothing but such documents then I suggest Stg. Clifford Stone's book, "UFOs are Real".

Also, go and read a copy of the COMETA report released in 1999 by the French government. It was leaked to the media there, not translated into English until recently: 
http://www.ufoevidence.org/newsite/files/COMETA_part1.pdf
http://www.ufoevidence.org/newsite/files/COMETA_part2.pdf

Still not enough?
OK, go read Ed Ruppelt's book "Report on Unidentified Flying Objects". 
http://www.nicap.dabsol.co.uk/Rufo.htm
Ruppelt was director of Project Blue Book for a few years, now I don't have much respect for Project Blue Book because it was a PR front for the US Airforce but he wrote this AFTER he resigned. Not to mention that Dr. J Allen Hinek who was the Air Force scientist for 20 years for Blue Book, changed his tune when left as well. He publicly stated on many occasions that Blue Book was lying and it was designed to steer the public away from the subject because the Air Force and govenment didn't want the public to know. 

All of the above information is easily available but most people don't have the time to look it up or don't know where to begin. I have quite an extensive library of books on the subject (about 100 so far) I can recommend some if you are interested. Either ask here or PM me.

Get educated about a subject before you advance an opinion, it's the only path to enlightenment.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Codger - not really into it - just was cruising the web and hat series caught my eye as having something tangible and authentic in it - like Rendlesham.

Sinc 
This caught my eye from the sightings



> 30 to 45 minutes later, both men were travelling in the northeasterly direction and had just come over a hill, when suddenly a bright flash of light came over the horizon. One turned to the other and said, "Did you see that?"
> 
> They stopped the truck to have a better look. Up in the sky a blue ball of fire was travelling across the sky. In an instant, another light was ejected from it. Then the blue ball of fire just blew up infront of their eyes. The light it created was like a flatline going across the sky. The ejected light was shaped like a half of a horseshoe. It continued to travel to the right before it blinked and then disappeared.


That's almost certainly a Leonid fireball that was grazing the planet - many are blue green and drip fire and split up. The date is absolutely bang on.

Something like this coming across a lower levels would certainly be spookie










That's an actual photo of a Leonid Fireball NOv 12 1999 - the siting above - also Nov 12th











> A 'fireball' is an extremely bright meteor, sometimes bright enough to read a newspaper. During this shower, we recorded 22 such meteors, all within 1 1/2 hours. It is estimated that the average person sees 4 'fireballs' in their lifetime. The above 'fireball' cast heavy shadows for about 6 seconds, and
> the luminous train left by itlasted about 10-12 minutes. We photographed over a thousand meteors in 90 minutes.


This last quote was from the 1966 storm. I've seen two fireballs in my life ( including the one just a while ago when looking for the aurora ) - these guys as 22 in a few hours  

Back on topic - I'm very skeptical but damn there are some really weird situations. I'd appreciate it if we kept the links to less speculative more substantive occurrences......just to keep the intrigue level up.


----------



## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

Fair enough Macdoc.

How about these incidences?

The Kecksburg UFO 

The Hudson Valley Sightings 

Trindade UFO 

and

The Travis Walton Case


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Wasn't aware of the Trinade photos or the Hudson Valley.

Kecksberg there was a good piece on PBS but given the timing it might have been a military vehicle of some sort. Occam's razor in that case.

The Fire in Sky was a good flick and certainly raises a lot of questions that are hard to answer.

One thing that may be interesting is with the advent of HD consumer camera's the resolution is going to be there for these sightings.
If somebody gets out with an HD on one like Hudson Valeey there will be a LOT of believers then.


----------



## Codger (Aug 1, 2004)

MacGenius: Please list any books that you found that "clicked" for you. It's appreciated. I'm not one of those with any reticence about buying books. 
This is not a subject that I've bothered to seriously look at before but there seems to be enough out there that it's got my curiosity up a few notches. 

The COMETA link is a good one. Just seems to be credible.

MaxPower: Do you think this is for real? "The Travis Walton Case"
Just looking for your opinion.

MacDoc "Codger - not really into it - just was cruising the web and that series caught my eye as having something tangible and authentic in it - like Rendlesham."
Must admit that this has got my curiosity levels up. 
Think I'm going to step back a bit. The range of craft just in size alone is substantially greater than I thought. 


On a lighter note... MIB2 was on last night and the closing scene just made me sit back and laugh. Perfect timing.


----------



## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Codger I actually suspect the web might be a better reading source than books tho perhaps the Travis Walton case might be an exception as there is a lot of "background" info and perhaps followup as well.
Just the web allows pro and con views quickly and updates.

Rendlesham I feel sorry for the military police involved as it sure appears there is a cover up that went right to the highest level in Britain.

Casual details that are part of a description like the apparent "fields" which fuzz the craft when seen by the naked eye all make sense with exotic propulsion systems.

Bring on the hidef cameras - THEN maybe we'll get some detail

I mean this is hard to argue with



> Summary: The former Chilean Chief of Naval Operations, Admiral Jorge Martinez declared that "UFOs are real". The ex-CNO made the shocking statement during an interview with a Chilean television network. The interview was conducted by journalist Rodrigo Ugarte from Teletrece, in Chile. The retired admiral admitted that he personally witnessed the sighting of two UFOs at sea.
> Two former Naval officers tell a televised audience about strange phenomena on the seas of Chile
> 
> From: Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo
> ...


and from France

http://ufologie.net/htm/giraud77.htm  

for a trained military pilot and crew to reveal this...... - yikes.

and this even more puzzling given the time when there would be simply NO "skunk works" explanation - especially given the speeds.

http://ufologie.net/htm/bentwaters56.htm

Combination of visual contact by trained pilots AND complete radar tracking both air and ground.........  hard to deny SOMETHING is very very very very strange that remains apparently unexplained as yet.


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

Codger

The Travis Walton Abduction case is one of the most popular abduction cases out there.

Quite frankly, I haven't done much research on this particular case to say wether it is true or not. What is clear though is something did happen to him.

However, it seems to me that Travis Walton is taking advantage of his experience and capitalizing on his abduction - movie, books etc. That leads me to raise an eyebrow.

One abduction case that we should all take a look at is the Barney and Betty Hill case. This one leaves no doubt in my mind. Do a Google on the subject. There are a ton of articles on this subject.


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## MacGenius (Nov 13, 2001)

Codger, I wish there was a way in Delicious Library to publish my collection but that will have to wait for a feature upgrade I guess...

In any event, let me scour my collection for some of the "best" titles and get back to you.


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

MacDoc, Codger,

Here's a story you may find interesting:

The John Tosti Story


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

I guess my issue with the Tosti story is his location near military facilities which lends itself to a variety of interpretations of both events if believed and sources for a hoax if disbelieved.
It's more the everyday events and also those observed by trained military and aviation personnel that I find puzzling than a movie level string of occurences.

Somebody buy him a HD camera.

_"There are strange things done 'neath the midnight sun_


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## MaxPower (Jan 30, 2003)

MacDoc,

If you enjoy reading about credible reports then I highly suggest you get a copy of Dr. Steven Greer's Disclosure Project book.

Dr. Greer has gathered top-secret military, government, intelligence and corporate witnesses to secret projects to give testimony about what they have seen or know. They also have stated that they will swear in front of congress that what they have said is the absolute truth.

You can check out more of Dr. Greer's work and buy his book at:

The Disclosure Project.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

The site seems a bit self serving. It's really not the US info that I can digest easily as

a) too many whackos throughout society ( just see "what Americans believe" )









b) there ARE secret projects which benefit from the obfuscation of "what to beleive or not" issues. Disinformation is rampant in the US in my mind.

c) there is healthy market for tales of the strange - ergo a profit motive

The Australian incidents, things like the French garden, certainly some of the earlier pre high technology ( the radar with sightings and chase ) all come across better to me.

When I see 
Tesla's Self-Powered Automobile
The Moray Radian Energy Device
Gabriel Kron and the Negative Resistor
Cold Fusion
Dr. Randell Mills and Blacklight Power etc 
on same site I shy away.

Too much pseudo-science and it taints the events and descriptions.

Stuff like this annoys me - this is cited as one of the "best cases"

http://ufocasebook.com/Kansas.html

Yet many of the descriptions are very similar or identical to fariy rings which are well explained.



> he initial tuft of dark green grass and the ring of stimulated grass that develops later result from the nitrogen released after the fungus breaks down the organic matter in the soil. Ae ring of brown or dead grass may also develop, caused by the depletion of soil moisture in the area where the fungus is concentrated. *If you dig into the area of brown or dead grass, you will find a dense growth of white mycelium. Water will not penetrate this zone of dense mycelial growth.*
> 
> During periods of unfavorable conditions, low temperatures and drought, mushroom production and fungal activity stops and may not be resumed for months or years.
> 
> Control. Fairy rings are very difficult to control with fungicides since *the soil in the infected area is almost impervious to water *


*An active imagination on a windswept prairie??








There have been many cases of "poltergeists" that turn out to be clever adolescents tricking trusting adults.

Now this book strikes me better

http://www.nidsci.org/articles/haines.php









but even the review mentions the author's flights of fancy which again casts some shadow on the events.

Still, intriguing.....bring on the HD cameras. *


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## MacGenius (Nov 13, 2001)

I just wanted to pass along a note that Wendy Connors in the US has been collecting sound clips of UFO related matrial for many years. She currently has an 8-disc library of MP3 files available for $19.99 US including shipping. Each disc contains usually over 24 hours of sound files.

You can download a few samples from this site:
http://www.konsulting.com/audio_clips.htm

Of particular interest is the Stan Friedman lecture at the bottom of the page. I know Stan and I've seen his lectures on 2 occasions (Maxpowr accompanied me on one last November) and he's a really good speaker and know's his stuff. Took my dad along as well and thinks differently about the matter after hearing Stan.

Anyhow, for those wanting a listing of books on the subject here is a shot list of the some of the best titles I've read and can recommend (in no particular order). Some of them I've commented with particulars but none of them are any better than the other:

Disclosure by Steven Greer
Firestorm by Anne Druffle (biography on Dr. James E MacDonald. Fantastic book)
Top-Secret Majic by Stan Friedman (authenticating the leaked Majestic 12 papers)
Sight Unseen by Budd Hopkins (abduction research)
Crash at Corona by Stan Friedman (Rowell research)
The Andreasson Affair by Raymond Fowler (Andreasson absuction case)
The Watchers by Raymond Fowler
Missing Time by Budd Hopkins
Communion by Whitley Streiber
Unconventional Flying Objects by Paull Hill
UFOs and the National Security State by Richard Dolan (excellent book, 500 pages, another book to follow soon)
The Missing Times by Terry Hansen (news media complicity in the UFO phenomenon) Probably one of the best books on the subject.
UFOs are Real by Clifford Stone
The Flying Saucers are realy by Maj. Donald Keyhoe (NICAP director)
Leap of Faith by Astronaut Gordon Cooper
Above Top Secret by Timothy Good
Beyond Top Secret by Timothy Good
Alien Agenda by Jim Marrs
Out of the Blue (DVD documentary)
The UFO Book by Jerome Clark
The Threat by Dr. David Jacobs

I have quite a few more but these come to mind right now. If you want more let me know...


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## Strongblade (Jul 9, 2001)

I have one basic view on the subject. One which i think alot of people overlook.

For these phenomena to be NOT of extra-terrestrial origin, each and every report, case and incident MUST be false.

If only ONE incident is genuine alien contact, then there is life in other parts of our universe and they are visiting us. And may even visit us more than once.

But for now, there is not irrefutable proof. However, there are enough unexplainable incidents which keep it from being proven FALSE either.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

While surfing on the subject, I ran across this site. 

A Collection of Strange Beliefs, Amusing Deceptions, and Dangerous Delusions (and how to think critically about them).

Just thought it might be of some interest.

Cheers


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## MDGrissom (Nov 25, 2008)

I registered today because of a Google search result on "active noise cancellation". But then, I saw this UFO thread from 2004.

I didn't believe in UFO's until my airplane collided with one in 1985. For those interested in such things, I illustrated my official accident report (using a photo of my WW2 Spitfire replica airplane) and also posted it on the internet trying to find out if anyone knows what it was that I collided with. No luck so far.

If you type "N1650R UFO" into the Google search box you find the article in many different languages, or, if this works, click on this link.

COAST TO COAST AM WITH GEORGE NOORY

Now I must go find the ANC thread I lost when I stopped to register.  

Great site guys!


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## Adrian. (Nov 28, 2007)

Sketchy...


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## MDGrissom (Nov 25, 2008)

Adrian.. I'm not from Canada so, what does "sketchy" mean?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Lots of SPAM these days MDGrissom and it's getting really sneaky. We get threads revived after a couple of years of silence and then a few days later, someone responds to that comment with a sales offer or a link to some company related to the last post.

I sometimes listen to that radio show while driving at night. Interesting story. What made you think that the wing could cut through the material without shearing the wing off?


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## Mississauga (Oct 27, 2001)

MDGrissom said:


> Adrian.. I'm not from Canada so, what does "sketchy" mean?


... means questionable, eh?


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## iJohnHenry (Mar 29, 2008)

This is the second one I have read this morning.

How about no link without at least 10 posts, or something along those lines??


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Well, well... what is this now?*





> Residents in Harbour Mille, a tiny community on Newfoundland's south coast, want to know what they saw in the sky Monday night.
> 
> Darlene Stewart said she was outside taking pictures of the sunset when she saw something fly overhead.
> 
> ...


(Read more from the CBC)


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

The Premier’s Office has confirmed that Prime Minister Stephen Harper will met with Premier Danny Williams on Friday.

The meeting is tentatively scheduled for late afternoon or early evening, but the details of where and when are still being worked out. There is no set agenda as to what the leaders will talk about.

Reports say Harper will also address the Canadian Bomb Shelter Construction Association while in St. John’s.

The Prime Ministers Office would not officially confirm the visit at this time, nor deny the launching of a guided missile over the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. All the PM's office would officially state is that "You have been warned ........". 

Relations between the Prime Minister and Premier Williams have been rocky since PM Harper renegged on a written promise re NL's Atlantic Accord money, and Prem. William's "ABC Campaign" during the last federal election.

A coincidence???? I think now.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Had forgotten about George Noory as I can no longer catch his show on the airwaves. He has given air time to a lot of individuals on UFOs and other fringe topics. Always entertaining though many topics/guest deserve a bit of skepticism.

Certainly a link to GN is right at home in this thread


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Advice On Removing Your Alien Implant


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## kps (May 4, 2003)

I want to keep mine, but wouldn't mind a system upgrade.


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

Dr.G. said:


> The Premier’s Office has confirmed that Prime Minister Stephen Harper will met with Premier Danny Williams on Friday.
> 
> The meeting is tentatively scheduled for late afternoon or early evening, but the details of where and when are still being worked out. There is no set agenda as to what the leaders will talk about.
> 
> ...


And along with recent embargoes imposed on Marine Atlantic not sending ships out of North Sydney (Sydney Harbour) to cut the supply lines to NL this is an ominous escalation.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

BigDL said:


> And along with recent embargos imposed on Marine Atlantic not sending ships out of North Sydney (Sydney Harbour) to cut the supply lines to NL this is an ominous escalation.


Yes!!!! The stores are running out of all sorts of fresh foods. We have called upon the US Federal Government to reimplement the Berlin Airlift. PM Harper has cut us off from any contact with the rest of Canada until we elect a Conservative or two here in NL. 

This email is being relayed out to ehMacLand via a trans-Atlantic link to Europe. 

Canadian forces have been patrolling the streets of St.John's, with riot police ready to put down any demonstrations when PM Harper arrives under armed RCMP protection. 

The missile launches continue to fly over us, landing in the Atlantic Ocean just off of St.John's.

All of this has caused a resurgence of the Newfoundland Liberation Party. Luckily, we have Marg Princess Warrior to save the day. She and PM Harper kissed and made up. We shall see.

YouTube - Marg Princess Warrior and Stephen Harper Strong Leadership
YouTube - Marg, Princess Warrior is back ...watchout Stephen Harper
YouTube - Marg sends a signal from Signal Hill to Stephen Harper


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

CubaMark said:


> *Well, well... what is this now?*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mystery solved. Quebec had France test out a ballistic missile for it as one way of trying to keep Newfoundland and Labrador in line over the possibility of developing more hydro power which it would not sell to Quebec. 

Harper will be here tomorrow to announce a new federal home rennovation plan for NL, and the rest of Canada within range of Quebec's new rocket, which will include bomb shelters. The current tax plan, which ends on Monday, Feb. 1st, does not include bomb shelters. 

We shall see.


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## Labi (Jan 28, 2010)

I dont know whats scarier.. missle testing close to residential homes or an alien spaceship.


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Some of those made up stories should come with a disclaimer for the sake of newcomers to ehMac, LabI. 

Take that last post with a grain of salt.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

SINC said:


> Some of those made up stories should come with a disclaimer for the sake of newcomers to ehMac, LabI.
> 
> Take that last post with a grain of salt.


I disagree, Sinc. Take my last post with a pound of salt ................ and a few . Should have put those in for those who don't know my "sense of humor". Merci, mon ami.


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

I believe we are definitely not the only sentient beings in the universe, but I think we most definitely have never been visited by E.T. Why? Time and distance. Even at the speed of light voyages are simply not possible. The star light (galaxies) we see in the sky came from their point of origin hundreds of thousands (and more) years ago. So you say, how about nomadic aliens who "just live" in space? I really doubt it.

We've been listening for over 50 years for E.T., if the universe is equally congested as the amount of "sightings" here on terra firma, then why haven't scientists noticed anything yet?


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Bjornbro said:


> I have to think we are definitely not the only sentient beings in the universe, but I believe we most definitely have never been visited by E.T. Why? Time and distance. Even at the speed of light voyages are simply not possible. The star light (galaxies) we see in the sky came from their point of origin hundreds of thousands (and more) years ago. So you say how about nomadic aliens who "just live" in space? I really doubt it.
> 
> We've been listening for over 50 years for E.T., if the universe is equally congested as the amount of "sightings" here on terra firma, then why haven't scientists noticed anything yet?


What if:
a) they don't want us to know they are visiting
b) they can travel faster than light
c) our scientists don't understand the signals they may be receiving
d) only a small percentage of what we see in the skies are aliens, and the rest are something else.


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## Max (Sep 26, 2002)

I agree with you, MacFury.

I don't see why an advanced species couldn't successfully be space-faring nomads. Nor do I think we're sufficiently advanced to even detect all the strange life forms which might, even now, be looking in.


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## Bjornbro (Feb 19, 2000)

Macfury said:


> What if:
> a) they don't want us to know they are visiting
> b) they can travel faster than light
> c) our scientists don't understand the signals they may be receiving
> d) only a small percentage of what we see in the skies are aliens, and the rest are something else.


a) if we can "see" a black hole, then we should be able to detect something else in closer proximity, unless b) is possible and they're "just in and out"
b) agreed, the only reason any sightings are possible is if they did get here
c) very true, but against a backdrop of radio waves wouldn't anything with mass (like an asteroid) reveal itself, albeit too late?
d) :lmao:


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

SINC said:


> Some of those made up stories should come with a disclaimer for the sake of newcomers to ehMac, LabI.
> 
> Take that last post with a grain of salt.


Sorry currently I am on a sodium reduced regiment. Beside I found the item delicious as is, merci beaucoup and thank you very much.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

While perusing this article from the CBC on the Newfoundland incident, which appears to explain the sighting by citing a French news agency report that it was simply France test-firing a new strategic missile, I found this bit interesting:


> FP reported that France's newest strategic nuclear submarine *"Le Terrible"* launched the test at 9:25 am (local time) from the Audierne Bay in the Atlantic. The M51 has a range of 8,000 kilometres.


Man, the French really know how to name their war machine, eh? "Le Terrible". The US names its boats after people, states, towns.... even their classes are pretty tame. The most vicious of 'em all is "Seawolf". A culturally interesting naming scheme, particularly when you consider the typical U.S. view of the French as namby-pamby "surrender monkeys"! (What would we do without the Simpsons to create cultural references such as these?)




+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

> France's newest strategic nuclear submarine "Le Terrible"


Six speed sub, five in reverse.


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## chasMac (Jul 29, 2008)

CubaMark said:


> A culturally interesting naming scheme, particularly when you consider the typical U.S. view of the French as namby-pamby "surrender monkeys"!


Of course, what you present does nothing to refute the US and perhaps world-view of French fighting skills (the Brits are no fans). Else we should all be terrified of chihuahuas named Tank or Attila.


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Hercules


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## chasMac (Jul 29, 2008)

Sigh. 

Another thread about to be derailed by dog-lovers.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

chasMac said:


> Sigh.
> 
> Another thread about to be derailed by dog-lovers.


At least you can't blame me .............. although I would be tempted to post a similar picture. 

Macfury, is that your cute pup?


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Back on track now .............. This just in from CBC.com

"Defence Minister Peter MacKay said Friday that he doesn't know what people in southern Newfoundland saw recently but he promised the federal government does have plans to help them.

"We will provide money to build a landing strip for UFOs at Harbour Mille," said MacKay, speaking in St. John's to announce federal funding for road construction in the province."



Read more: CBC News - Nfld. & Labrador - MacKay promises landing strip for UFOs


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## Macfury (Feb 3, 2006)

Dr.G. said:


> Macfury, is that your cute pup?


Entirely random selection, with bias to breed.

Our companion animal is a fine bull terrier.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

Macfury said:


> Entirely random selection, with bias to breed.
> 
> Our companion animal is a fine bull terrier.


OK. We think that our doxies, who already look like freaks of nature, are aliens sent here to Earth to steal our minds and hearts. One has to admit that doxie pups are cute ................. :love2: ............ but they are the first wave of the alien invasion that is coming soon. We shall see.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

"The Prime Minister Office says there is no evidence of anyone firing a rocket near Newfoundland's southern coast, despite reports of a flaming unidentified object shooting through the sky in Harbour Mille on Monday."

Read more: CBC News - Nfld. & Labrador - No evidence UFO was rocket: PMO

However, PM Harper would not rule out the possibility of UFO's coming to NL.


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## eMacMan (Nov 27, 2006)

Dr.G. said:


> "The Prime Minister Office says there is no evidence of anyone firing a rocket near Newfoundland's southern coast, despite reports of a flaming unidentified object shooting through the sky in Harbour Mille on Monday."
> 
> Read more: CBC News - Nfld. & Labrador - No evidence UFO was rocket: PMO
> 
> However, PM Harper would not rule out the possibility of UFO's coming to NL.


Has the PM recently changed his name to Shultz? "I saw nothing! I know nothings!beejacon


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

No word yet what was discussed at the meeting between PM Harper and the Premier of NL. We shall see.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

I didn't catch this the first time around...



> ...she then alerted two neighbours and they saw *three similar objects* flying through the air.


Um.... THREE of 'em?


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## SINC (Feb 16, 2001)

Hmmm, what's groovetube's avatar got to do with UFOs? Hmmmmmm.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

I was looking for a good "Yikes!" image. Forgot about *groovetube*'s avatar... then I found this, which I think explains a lot...


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## chimo (Jun 9, 2008)

agent4321 said:


> Come on people...
> 
> Here's a little bedtime reading.
> 
> Demon Haunted World


That's an outstanding book! I wish that it was mandatory reading in high school or jr high.


----------



## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

MazterCBlazter said:


> Carl Sagan who wrote that was a major pothead.


Still, I liked his books "Cosmos" and "Contact".


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## chimo (Jun 9, 2008)

MazterCBlazter said:


> Carl Sagan who wrote that was a major pothead.


My comment still stands.


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## RunTheWorldOnMac (Apr 23, 2006)

For humans to come out and declare we are the only life in existence is naive, egotistical, ignorant, pompous... the Earth represents perhaps what ... a fraction of 1% of the universe.


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## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

RunTheWorldOnMac said:


> For humans to come out and declare we are the only life in existence is naive, egotistical, ignorant, pompous... the Earth represents perhaps what ... a fraction of 1% of the universe.


I agree, RTWOM. I can't prove it, but it just makes mathematical sense. Paix, mon ami.


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## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

Now they've gone to Finland to find a guy who says "it was just a jet at sunset"... Mmmmm-hmmm.....

Finnish UFO researcher says winter sun on jet streams creates rocket effect


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

CubaMark said:


> Now they've gone to Finland to find a guy who says "it was just a jet at sunset"... Mmmmm-hmmm.....
> 
> Finnish UFO researcher says winter sun on jet streams creates rocket effect


Yes, I have seen these contrails myself. So, the problem would be solved if only the air traffic controllers at either the St. John's of Gander airports could report that there was an airplane in the vacinity at the time of the sighting. There was not ................ so a logical theory is laid to rest. We shall see.


----------



## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


----------



## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

MazterCBlazter said:


> Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of his work. The man was incredibly intelligent and accomplished. We need more Carl Sagans


Amen, Brother MCB. Paix, mon ami. :clap::clap:


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

MazterCBlazter said:


> I loved Cosmos, have not read Contact. I think I still have these two and some of his other books in storage somewhere.


It's a good read as to what might happen with a SETI contact.


----------



## MazterCBlazter (Sep 13, 2008)

.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*Huge Fireball Reported Over Ireland*



> We're seeing reports popping up on the internet of a huge fireball spotted over Ireland at around 6pm local time on Feb. 3, 2010.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


(UniverseToday)

AND



> There are reports that the fireball has landed in a field near Crimlin in Co Cavan.


(RTE News)

UPDATE:

Irish TV news report:




+
YouTube Video









ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


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## BigDL (Apr 16, 2003)

Perhaps the UFO over NL was a NFG Mark Fiore's Animated Cartoon Site for deficit destruction


----------



## Dr.G. (Aug 4, 2001)

BigDL said:


> Perhaps the UFO over NL was a NFG Mark Fiore's Animated Cartoon Site for deficit destruction




That could be it, BigDL.


----------



## CubaMark (Feb 16, 2001)

*A bit of sensationalist writing over at the Toronto Star, but what the hey, gotta sell those papers, eh?*

*NASA puzzled by spaceship-like object*





> Hubble takes pictures of all sorts of weird things, but seldom does NASA refer to them in a press release as “mysterious.” The second sign of worry: The object is larger than the parameters of its own dust trail – like, you know, a spaceship. Lastly, it appears to be shaped like an “X.” Or, more ominously, like a Klingon bird of prey. Why is that?
> 
> “I wish I knew,” David Jewitt, NASA’s chief detective on the case, said Wednesday from UCLA, where he is an astronomer.


(TorontoStar)


----------

