# Toronto Mac Dealers



## macuserforlife (Oct 30, 2004)

Hey Everyone,

Just a quick note to relay a recent experience I had with Toronto based Mac dealers.

I have been considering upgrading my TiBook to an AlBook and emailed every Toronto based Mac dealer I could find who offered trade-ins to request info on the value of my computer as a trade in.

It should be noted at this point that the dealers I chose were the ones who had specific places on their websites saying please call or email for trade-in quotes and whose pages indicated an email address for this purpose. It should also be noted that I was not looking to just sell my computer but, in fact, to _purchase a brand new mac_ by way of trade-in.

In one email I even expressed a desire to purchase an item on their specials page and requested they contact me to tell me how I could buy this item on line.

Of the six dealers I contacted, only one had the courtesy to even reply. The reply in this case was rapid, polite and even offered encouragement and ideas on the sale of my computer. I would like to thank and congratulate MACDOC on the exemplary service offered in this case, even if it was a simple email information request.

All of the other dealers completely ignored my requests and didn't even offer me the courtesy of a "thanks but no thanks" response.

Having spent the last fifteen years in hospitality and retail management I know exactly what I expect when it comes to service and I do not offer second chances to entities who do not wish my business. Any mac purchases I make in the future will be through MACDOC without any shadow of a doubt.

While I admit it feels good to vent on this subject, I would like to point out that my objective is not to single any business out, which is why I have only named the business who offered exemplary service, however, it is my opinion that this reflects on the entire industry and I would invite anyone considering the purchase of a new computer (or anything for that matter) to offer your hard earned dollars to the business which most wants them. This does not mean the business most willing to cut prices but, rather, the business who still understands the word service.

Frankly I am disgusted by any business who lets a customer go by failing to reply to a simple email. With the amount of money invested in all forms of marketing these days just to find new customers this is hardly the behaviour I would expect when a customer finds you!

Please do not ask me for the names of the businesses as, like I stated before, this is not a witch-hunt. I will, however, confirm to the businesses in question if they contact me wishing to know if they were involved.

Regards,

Bruce

P.S. The most recent email I sent to any of these businesses was twelve days ago so, I feel, they have had ample time to reply.


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## autopilot (Dec 2, 2004)

just a note:

i work in customer service (automotive industry) and i used to be surprised at the number of complaints that we got about our dealers never responding to emails.

however, and i think this is true for most businesses (not counting customer service/head office type contacts), and i know that a phone call is truly the quickest way to contact somebody, especially with a sales inquiry.

again, though, this is the computer industry and you would think they would be on top of their email correspondence. :S

when buying my mac, i contacted vistek by email requesting leasing information. i then called in because i'm impatient (when i want something i want it NOW!), but i had a response to my email about 2 hours later







very satisfied with the service there, by the way, but i must say i haven't been disappointed by a *true* mac reseller yet


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## macuserforlife (Oct 30, 2004)

Hey Autopilot,

I understand exactly what you are saying about phoning instead of email but, as I mentioned, each of these dealers had an email address specifically for trade-in quotes which was linked to from their trade-in info pages.


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## Mantat (Aug 22, 2003)

Dont trade in!

They quoted my PB for 800$ less than what I sold it for (quotes from 2 resellers).

The margins on computers arent good enough to make trade in an interesting buying strategy IMHO. Think about it: They have to sell your computer at market value which means that theyhave to buy yours beloow that price plus all the time theyhave to spend to inspect it.


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## autopilot (Dec 2, 2004)

macuser: yeah, i hear what you're saying. maybe you had the good fortune to pick from the worst dealers in the city??

j/k

well, glad you found the good one in the bunch.


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## macuserforlife (Oct 30, 2004)

Hey Mantat,

Yeah, I figured as much. It was really just a simple way to sell and buy the new one at the same time.

I have since been contacted by someone on this board who has offered me a good price for it so I'm not in any difficulty selling it.


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## Mississauga (Oct 27, 2001)

Unmanaged SPAM filtering... 'nuff said.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Your experience is not unusual to be honest and not only related to the computer industry.

What is the point of having an email address and a website if you don't answer your emails? When will companies learn that they hurt the business because of negative user experiences?

In some cases, I have resend the same email before getting a response and then they seem to involve half the company, tell me there will be a resolution, they all seem satisfied but no one takes care of the customer.... 
I can tell you that I personnally will avoid brands and companies because of poor customer service - and when it comes to our firm's purchases, the same can happen. 

I have had similar experiences where I would need a product, contact the company (reseller) with the part number, their distributors part number... and it feels like you are bothering them... We ended out opening our accounts with distributors directly for certain products. (We still try to encourage the small reseller)

Marketing and Branding dollars can only go so far if the customer is not happy.


- I have never bough anything from MacDoc (yet), but really appreciate when he answers technical questions on the boards. 
An expert, in my opinion, is someone who freely shares his knowledge and experience. MacDoc is a welcomed asset to these boards....


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## Digital_Gary (Sep 18, 2003)

> Unmanaged SPAM filtering... 'nuff said.


If I was on your list of reseller that is my only explanation.
If that is what happened, please accept my apology


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## macuserforlife (Oct 30, 2004)

Hi Digital Gary,

No, actually you weren't one of the culprits and I think it is important to point that out to anyone reading this.

In fact, the only reason I didn't email you was that I couldn't find anything regarding trade-ins on your website.

Thanks for your input on the board.

Regards,

Bruce


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## Digital_Gary (Sep 18, 2003)

PPHHEEEEWWW  

We do take trade ins for future reference.


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Thanks but we're no saints in that regard also.

Several problems

a) servers snag emails - I figure we lose 5-10% incoming

b) there is not enough time/money in the channels to service clients well without sacrfice some aspect - we sacrifice retail experience and spread contact time over longer hours during the week

c) Apple's biz is well up, we're up, others too but it's inconsistent and with product shortages often you spend more time telling clients why it's not available than servicing their needs.  

From our end and Gary will confirm this we spend an inordinate amount of time chasing products through the channels with reps who know nothing.

If the retail channel is tight the wholesale channel is a disaster.
Too many products, too few reps, no margins.









It sometimes boggles the mind it works at all. 

One reason we opened our own board is to time shift support AND to offer a communication that was more reliable than email which lately sucked.

I'm trying to send something to a staff right now - he can reach me - I can't send to him  

So I appreciate the kudos but clients need to know the situation the channel is in........not an easy biz - even for Apple with it's enormous growth this year.  

•••

Update - the email to staff would not go through with excel doc attached - went through with pdf - no bounce - go figure.

ANY attachment - vcf etc risks going into never never land.


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## ArtistSeries (Nov 8, 2004)

Macdoc, I hear your pain when dealing with distributors and I do know about the shortages you are talking about - this week we had to go to Office Depot to buy blank printable DVDs because Ingram and EMJ did not have any (the ones that you can print almost to the end of the inner diameter).

That said, when a retail channel such as EMJ does not even have the SKUs for Wiebetech and you have to call Dr. Bott, Wiebetech and then EMJ again... makes you wonder if they even want to sell their products.... It's hard on the resellers because you have direct contact with the clients. 

And, I will admit that I have seen customers take up alot of time asking questions-pricing-tech support-try and deal with absolutely no intention of buying anything and/or get your advice and then go to the less expensive retailer or buy online and then call you for tech support.... 

Even with all these irritations, there is a lack of customer service in Canada - one just has to look South of the Border for a better retail experience....

Even with 5-10% emails lost it does not explain the lack of response from most companies. As customers, if we contact a firm, it is likely because we are ready to buy....


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## milhaus (Jun 1, 2004)

This is a somewhat unrelated post, but I have a question about trade-in policy. One major Mac dealer, at least, does trade ins by subtracting trade in price from sale price. Other Mac dealers and most other trade places will subtract your trade in price from the final price. The first saves you an additional bit on the taxes. Is that legit?


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

That's the way it should be, and I believe it is legit. There is no actual tax law pertaining to trade-ins anyway (except for vehicles).. unless I'm mistaken.

But I dont get why anyone would trade in their machine. There are never any deals to be had, you're always going to lose money on the deal. It's a win-win situation for the dealer, but not for you.

With so many ways to sell it on the used market, ie: forums, ebay, newsgroups.. I see no reason why anyone would trade in anything. Just my opinion..


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## MacDoc (Nov 3, 2001)

Kloan - many of our trades are to pros who cannot afford downtime and who have cards and drives and RAM that move forward - often the innards are worth more than the box itself.

We most often do box to box swaps where most of the internal value moves forward ( even if the RAM is different value moves forward - there is a small charge for the swap ).

Clients hold their old machine for a couple of days to make sure the new one functions well.

We do proper data transfers on Powerbooks for example - some of which can be tricky when there are no firewire ports - we have to remove a drive then do a clone.

The "innards" are moved properly - jumpers etc.

There are some tax savings that often outweigh the "private market" possible gain.

Sometimes we advise clients to sell privately when the machine is not in high demand - ie beige G3s right now.

Also many clients have no interest in dealing with the tire kickers and low ballers who inevitably surface selling privately - even here  

Doing fair trades is important long term as it keeps the over all cost of technology lower. Markets like ehMac are important as well to provide a viable alternative to dealer trades.

But *there is room for both* and it's sometimes a real lose situation happens when for instance a Cube Power supply died. Worked when we got it - died a few days later.  

The key is fair trading, on both sides.


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## Digital_Gary (Sep 18, 2003)

> From our end and Gary will confirm this we spend an inordinate amount of time chasing products through the channels with reps who know nothing.


There does seem to be a lot out there


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## steadfast (Jul 23, 2004)

it's that old guy. I have in the last year changed drugstores,car and golf ball manufactures because of their lack of response to e-mail inquiries and complaints. In all cases I have let them know by snailmail. Know What not a single response


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## kloan (Feb 22, 2002)

MacDoc, that makes sense.. hadn't thought about it that way.. for some people it is easier to just get everything taken care of in one shot.. the couple hundred bucks isn't worth the hassle. 

But I'm a deal hunter, it's in the blood..


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